# Does anyone realise...



## murderroutine (Oct 22, 2005)

That any mental issue being an illness is only a theory. There are no tests you can run on a living humans brain which assess the status of the chemicals in their brain. There is only evidence. no proof. Thus rendering it a theory which in my personal opinion is fraud.

Any doctor who tells you there is a test that can assess the staus of your brain chemicals is in wishful thinking and it is under much debate and is considered unethical to tell a patient so. PLEASE RESEARCH MORE!!

All of the people who are taking these SSRIs, anti psychotics etc.. are in serious risk of even worse health problems. They ARE messing with your brain which is a very much needed (no shit) organ. Does it piss anyone else off to see doctors pushing these drugs like candy? perks and incentives people. Doctors sign up for it.

sorry, just really pissed when i read about people who take SSRIs and anti anxiety pills to make them feel better but then they complain about it making them worse.

going to work now.


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2006)

AMEN!!!!!!!! That's for damn sure!


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

murderroutine said:


> There are no tests you can run on a living humans brain which assess the status of the chemicals in their brain. There is only evidence. no proof. Thus rendering it a theory which in my personal opinion is fraud.


The evidence is the proof.

Figure 1. PET Images of the Brains of a Healthy Comparison Subject and a Patient With Depersonalization Disorder at Two Consecutive Levels in the Parietal Lobea










aHigher relative metabolic activity (region/whole brain) in the patient with depersonalization disorder occurred in the parietal association areas in more dorsal (Brodmann?s area 7B) and ventral (Brodmann?s area 39) regions.

Source: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/con ... 11/1782/F1


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2006)

If your under 21 and your using these pharmaceuticals that directly affect your brain it can cause unnatural changes.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

j_utah said:


> If your under 21 and your using these pharmaceuticals that directly affect your brain it can cause unnatural changes.


Yeah your brain is still developing until your twenties. I think people who have serious mental problems that cause violence or keep them from even living on their own definitely need medication. If you can still function then i think you should try everything possible before resorting to meds. I went to a doctor, a psychiatrist and a counselor and all of them recommended some pill. Each one was different. One said an antianxiety med, the other an antidepressant and one even gave me an antipsychotic. Drug companies admit they're not even sure exactly how ssri's and other meds work....


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## murderroutine (Oct 22, 2005)

1A said:


> murderroutine said:
> 
> 
> > There are no tests you can run on a living humans brain which assess the status of the chemicals in their brain. There is only evidence. no proof. Thus rendering it a theory which in my personal opinion is fraud.
> ...


 Yes, but who knows what causes what? if the derealization goes away, the brain changes? if a person isnt depressed and then something happens to depress them, they become depressed and it shows up on a scan. and with anything else mental. so, what causes what? the brain to make the person depressed or the person being depressed to change the brain? It's still under debate and a good/ethical scientest would agree. You can't just throw one plausible theory on the table and say "hey, this is IT!"


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

People on this site, and perhaps it's common amoung the mentally ill generally, tend to vomit on their grandmother when someone mentions 'Proof' or 'Science' or 'Possible Cure'. When an SSRI or Benzo or whatever doesn't help, or a EEG or PET scan shows no abnormalities, or Psychotheraphy doesn't help - it's usually 'whip out the scented candles and chant to <insert diety of choice>.'. That's not proving anything except desperation. And it's not surprising I suppose.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

I agree with your statement that docs give us those heavy duty meds like candy.

I experienced it myself when I was seeing a psychiatrist. The first thing she offered were anti-depressants. I didn't want them then. Only after my panic-attacks became such a load and I couldn't function properly anymore, I asked for an anti-depressant. Then I said to her that I heard loud voices and sounds when in bed and guess what, she immediately offered me anti-psychotics! No way!

This isn't only my experience, my aunt for instance had the same thing with her psychiatrist. Unfortunately, if your mentally instable or feel hopeless, you do whatever the docs tell you to do. Docs should think twice before giving meds like these.

I also think docs and parents should be very careful with giving children meds like anti-depressants or Ritalin and such. If you can do without them, please do. I got anti-depressants when I was 14-15 years old! I freaked out by the sideaffacts and stopped taking them the next week or so, but getting the meds at such an age was extremely easy. I just went to this doc, said I was feeling down and suicidal and "poof" there was the sollution. I didn't even ask for them, I didn't haven thought about it when I went there to tell him about my problems. The better way was to first let me get therapy (which I did got) and than see if I needed meds and which ones.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

You know what I wonder? These brainscans may proof that there is an alteration in your brain, but many people on this board had brainscans (PET, MRI..) and their docs found nothing! So it could be that you have DP/DR but it doesn't show on such a scan.


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## ledganteast (May 12, 2006)

n/a


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## maria (Oct 28, 2004)

Without Seroquel I wouldn't have even this teeny tiny bit of quality in my life. So Seroquel 4ever yey :shock:


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## Letshavefun (Jul 10, 2006)

It's all a freakin conspiracy man!
(lol)
Like maybe these brain scans somehow convince the people of the "results" which the doctors tell us. Then they give us meds to completley brain wash us.
(sarcassim)


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

When you laugh your brain chemistry changes right...? Surely if you are depressed/anxious or whatever it does the same....

Western medicine is ignorant in the fact that they only treat the symptoms and hardly ever the cause. When are people going to wake up and realise that it is emotional states that cause the majority of illness. The evidence is overwhelming.


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## ledganteast (May 12, 2006)

n/a


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Drug companies dont put out these drug's out of goodwill they put them out to make profit's. But they do help people. You want evidence? Im still alive which is pretty good evidence. If not for depakote, clonazepam and seroquel id more then likely be dead.

Sure anti-depressant's and ADHD drug's are sometimes overprescribed but that doesent mean they arent effective when used the right way. They help alot of people live somewhat normal lives atleast ive seen the result's myself.

So what if drug companies make billion's of dollar's off these drug's what are you gonna stop buying clothes now because clothing companies make lot's of money off that? A piss poor analogy i know but thats all i could think of at the moment. The point is they are greedy bastards but we all know they are greedy bastards. Or atleast you should. Every industry basically consists of greedhead's.

If you dont like to take drug's go break out the scented candles and wind chimes and see how well they work. If you ask me that's just getting totally desperate.


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## ledganteast (May 12, 2006)

FDA-approved SSRIs have only come about in a matter of 12 years. 
*We do not know enought about them yet.*

The drugs have saturated the psychiatric field; a quick 15-minute consultation ends with a patient holding a prescription.

It is too easy a solution for an extemely complex problem,its fast food for your emotional health.

I'm glad it worked for you but for the majority of people I know it has'nt.The side effects of some have to be taken into serious moral account.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/health/story/ ... 58,00.html

I have had depression/anxiety most of my life inherited from my father's family and have overcome it to a liveable point without any drug use whatsoever.Whereas I have friends on anti depressants who have committed suicide or are more suicididal and messed up then they were before.

The manufacturers are not only marketing the drug, but also the depression disease.They?ve permeated all aspects of society and have everyone thinking, ?This drug might help me with my problems.??
it is absolutely morally and ethically wrong.

Thank god at least in australia advertising of drugs is banned unlike the US where they are free to push them 24 hrs a day.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

jeremy said:


> When you laugh your brain chemistry changes right...? Surely if you are depressed/anxious or whatever it does the same....
> 
> Western medicine is ignorant in the fact that they only treat the symptoms and hardly ever the cause. When are people going to wake up and realise that it is emotional states that cause the majority of illness. The evidence is overwhelming.


Can't agree more 

Besides, "mental illness" is just a label and not a very nice one at that. I absolutely hated the thought of being "mentally ill". That's one reason I chose alternate means to heal myself


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## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

ledganteast said:


> Thank god at least in australia advertising of drugs is banned unlike the US where they are free to push them 24 hrs a day.


 :lol: I can't watch a show without seeing about 12 ads for depression meds.
At least they stopped showing the ones with the zoloft blob!
I hate them all. I change the channel. 
The ones for sleeping pills are creepy too. 
All the marketing makes me mad.


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## ledganteast (May 12, 2006)

None of the "chemical imbalance" theories of depression have been ever been verified.

Smiling can cause an increase in serotonin,multiple things affect serotonin levels.They cannot verify that serotonin deficiency is the cause of depression. Or determine if it's related to life experience or biological malfunction.

There is still no valid biological test for depression.

SSRI anti-depressants are not a cure, or even a particularly effective treatment for depression. Serotonin is only one of several neurotransmitters that affect mood, and if a person has a serotonin deficiency, forcing what little they have to not be re-uptaken into the synapses does not fix the problem. The fact that all SSRIs cause adverse side-effects proves that this artificial chemical balancing act is not what the body wants.

The medical community has become enamored with maintenance drugs, which simply allow people to maintain unhealthy, illness inducing lifestyles. We need to research why some people have chemical imbalances in their brains, and figure out what the body requires in order to restore balance.

Depression is almost certainly tied into our sedentary, increasingly solitary lifestyles. People don't have to MOVE anymore, and physical activity produces all sorts of mood enhancing chemicals in the brain.

http://www.teenscreentruth.com/psychiat ... icide.html

http://baumhedlundlaw.com/

http://www.teenscreentruth.com/AFSP_Funding.html

http://www.spinwatch.org/content/view/1058/9

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/Bio ... alance.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Healy_(psychiatrist)

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 20416.html

http://www.szasz.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychiatry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Szasz

http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/

http://www.quitpaxil.org/Main/voices2.htm


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

For the original poster - illness isn't defined by what is going on in the body. That is why psychosomatic illnesses are still taken seriously...even if there is nothin physically wrong with you (and I'm not saying that is the case in mental illness just using it as an example) you are still considered ill if you are unwell.

What is illness measured by? The following are probably consider the main indicators:

Are you happy and at peace?
Can you do all the things you need to do?
Can you work?
Do you have much energy?
How are your personal relationships?
Do you feel a sense of community?
Do you have activities you enjoy?
Are you addicted/dependent?
Abusive relationships?

A person may have false beliefs and still be able to get by in their job and family life.

To use an extreme and obviously harmful example, an obsessive pervert is still considered "sick".

That is because cultures also have philosophy of illness. You may considered ill if you lifestyle varies considerably from the norm, even if it is not harmful to other people. Converting to a religion which is not common to the culture you grew up in is also considered "abnormal".

And this is where I agree somewhat with the point of the original poster: mental illness is fuzzy. But not entirely. Ill is always going to mean "unwell" ie. struggling to find fulfillment in life.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

:.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Tigersuit said:


> I take Trazodone 50mg every night, and it definitely helps with the obsessive thoughts. I really hope I'm not messing myself up permanently. :?


 It wont not unless your a guy and you get priapism. That can certainly mess you up permanently lol.


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