# ACT



## sming (May 7, 2005)

Hi all,
I'm a DR sufferer of 10 years. This was alongside depression and anxiety. Not drug induced (I managed to do it without assistance...). I didn't know I was depressed for the first 5 years and have spent the last 5 trying to get better. I didn't know about DR until about 2 years ago and yet it was so patently clear that it was something I had been enduring all that time.

To get better I've tried:
- many anti-depressant classes: Tricyclic, SSRI, SNRI, novel, dopamine-based.
- many styles of psychological therapy: vanilla CBT, CAT, REBT and lastly ACT.

For the most part they did nothing to help and often worsened my wellbeing to even deeper depths of despair, gloom and suffering. It really was an indescribable horror of an existence. Each day was full of terror, fear, panic and painful anxiety. I wanted to be dead for years.

However, I can report that ACT has really, and I mean *really* helped.

ACT's main focus is not to combat "unhelpful" thoughts but to change the way you look at them. You allow your most disgusting, vile, frightening thoughts right in the front door and let the sit on your sofa. At first you feel sick simply having them in your house but after a while, they become part of the furniture. Smelly and vile furniture - yes, but nowhere near as terrifying as they once were.

Very very slowly, you begin to realise that resisting, fighting and running from your most feared thoughts actually just digs you deeper into the mire. You almost imperceptably begin to feel a little better, a little less fearful. As you invite more horrid thoughts in for tea, you begin to realise that the vast majority of your problems are in fact *caused* by fighting so hard, for refusing to have these horrible thoughts.

And this is where I believe ACT has particular relevance to DR/DP. Very often as I was walking into the subway station on the way to work I would go:
"OK, do not think about the fluorescent lighting"
"do not go all DR before you even get to work"
- what does that do? It makes you think and resist having the very thing you do not want. I believe that a lot of DR/DP's power comes from this sort of chicken/egg thinking.

I believe that detached, unreal, sickeningly anxious feeling of DR is brought on by an absolute refusal to think certain thoughts or an absolute committment to think a certain thought (sometimes to avoid thinking a secondary thought!). It's almost as if the motivation to avoid the thought is so strong and powerful you force your mind into a place where you can't even have thoughts. It's almost like your brain's being put out of harm's way. The logic being: "If you can't think any thoughts at all, then you can't think horrid thought X".

ACT teaches you how stop digging, how to stop pushing thoughts away. You learn how to engage with the World again and you do this not by ridding yourself of all bad content, but by allowing it to tag along with you. If this sounds rather odd/paradoxical/religious/metaphorical then I'm partly succeeding in outlining ACT and I wholly encourage you to learn more about it.

I've spent probably $18K on getting better and I got no results whatsoever. I spent $25 on "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy : An Experiential Approach to Behavior Change" and it's done more than I could ever have hoped. Sure, every single day for considerable periods I feel crap - worthlessness, guilt, anxiety. But it's not a pimple on a mouse's chuff compared to how I was merely a year ago. For the first time in 10 years I have "OK" days. I've found myself chatting when I wouldn't have before. I've found myself getting back into old hobbies like badger baiting, hare coursing and fox hunting. It's marvellous.

So, if this info is any use to anyone, just post and I'll try and reply as best as I can.

Cheers & good luck to you all.
Pete

p.s. I was joking about the blood sports ^^


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

Very well put sming. This kind of thinking has been floating around the boards lately. 1A and J_Utah have been describing a very similar way of beating dp. You just gave one of the best descriptions i've heard. The inviting the thoughts in analogy was quite good.

This acceptance stuff needs to be emphasized and repeated in as many different ways possible by all the people who understand it . If we can get everyone on the board to try this, i bet many will feel great releif.

I tried something like this last week. I wrote down everything that was eating me up inside then visualized and tried to feel the experience in all its horror. I tried to let the angst, regret, fear and sadness take over me until i just didn't care anymore. I felt great the next day, i even laughed naturally again. I did have a setback that sent me right back into it, but i won't give up.

By the way sming, is this act thing a widespread treatment? I'm guessing not since you said it was experimental. I'll have to check if there is anything like it near me.


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

make sure to add your book to my books stickaH!

8)


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2006)

Thanks for the very descriptive post, im gonna look for this therapy.


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## The Heretic (Feb 3, 2006)

I can relate to that sming.
I would get panic attacks and and then retreat into Dp's or visa versa.
One would instigated the other. As you put it "the chicken/egg" scenario.
I went to see councilers and hynotherapists, cost a small fortune and was a fruitless waste of time. Cipramil (citalopram) seemed to work though.

I think anyone new this sight who's having a bad time should read it.

Take it easy sming

tHE hERETIC


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

I found another ACT book if anyone's interested, it's on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157224 ... e&n=283155


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2006)

urbn said:


> By the way sming, is this act thing a widespread treatment? I'm guessing not since you said it was experimental. I'll have to check if there is anything like it near me.


Unless I missed it, the word he used was 'Experiential' - as in, too experience, I think.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

mrmole said:


> urbn said:
> 
> 
> > By the way sming, is this act thing a widespread treatment? I'm guessing not since you said it was experimental. I'll have to check if there is anything like it near me.
> ...


Ahhh.. my bad. Thats better i suppose. Maybe i can actually find one of these then.


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

found an ACT article
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... i_n8931297


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

ABOUT ACT
http://www.contextualpsychology.org/en/about_act


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

http://www.contextualpsychology.org/en/ ... ses_of_act

The Six Core Processes of ACT


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## sming (May 7, 2005)

urbn said:


> Very well put sming. This kind of thinking has been floating around the boards lately. 1A and J_Utah have been describing a very similar way of beating dp. You just gave one of the best descriptions i've heard. The inviting the thoughts in analogy was quite good.


thanks very much, glad it made sense. BTW probably the reason the analogy seemed good is because it's straight out of the book I recommended ^^ It's called the "Joe the bum" metaphor. The book's full of great metaphors like that which are extremely powerful and yet easily remembered.



> This acceptance stuff needs to be emphasized and repeated in as many different ways possible by all the people who understand it . If we can get everyone on the board to try this, i bet many will feel great releif.


I bet it'll help a few aswell. But do bear in mind that YMMV for every single person on this board. What works for one may well not work for others.



> I tried something like this last week. I wrote down everything that was eating me up inside then visualized and tried to feel the experience in all its horror. I tried to let the angst, regret, fear and sadness take over me until i just didn't care anymore. I felt great the next day, i even laughed naturally again. I did have a setback that sent me right back into it, but i won't give up.


That's kind of the ACT approach except ACT also shows you how not to "buy" thoughts. When you immerse yourself in your worst thoughts, you feel just dreadful. ACT shows you how to fuse more weakly with your thoughts so that you feel less crap (and they seem less scary).



> By the way sming, is this act thing a widespread treatment? I'm guessing not since you said it was experimental. I'll have to check if there is anything like it near me.


No, it's not a widespread treatment AFAIK. There are ACT therapists around but it's nowhere near as popular as CBT. I'm sure others on the board can expound.

Cheers for the reply & good luck,
pete


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## sming (May 7, 2005)

The Heretic said:


> I can relate to that sming.
> I would get panic attacks and and then retreat into Dp's or visa versa.
> One would instigated the other. As you put it "the chicken/egg" scenario.
> I went to see councilers and hynotherapists, cost a small fortune and was a fruitless waste of time. Cipramil (citalopram) seemed to work though.
> ...


yep, panic, anxiety and DR are intrinsically linked IMO. Well, for non drug induced occurances, anyway. I am currently on Remeron, Lexapro and Buspar which have very much helped me. I think. It's hard to tell when there're so many different factors involved.

Good luck,
pete


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## sming (May 7, 2005)

Universal said:


> I found another ACT book if anyone's interested, it's on amazon
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157224 ... e&n=283155


yes, that one looks like the "I've written a bucketload of papers, found something really cool and now I want the money" book by Stephen Hayes ^^ I am planning on buying it.

The one I recommended is actually for therapists & other related professionals. It's extremely dry and full of psychobabble. Avoid if you're not into sentences that require re-reading 6 times.


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## sming (May 7, 2005)

Universal said:


> http://www.contextualpsychology.org/en/the_six_core_processes_of_act
> 
> The Six Core Processes of ACT


nice one. Yep, that's the man himself. He's a bright lad, that one.

BTW I'm not into the Values & committed action stuff yet. I'd dug myself soooo deep that I'm still at the defusion&acceptance stage. I've been avoiding many different classes of thoughts for many, many years with extreme vigour - that ain't gonna go away any time soon.

Besides, working out your values and committing to action just seems like hard work to me...


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

sming said:


> I bet it'll help a few aswell. But do bear in mind that YMMV for every single person on this board. What works for one may well not work for others.


What does YMMV mean?


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2006)

Your mileage may vary - It's an American phrase I think. Basically means everyone could have different results.


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## freesong (Dec 26, 2005)

Thanks for the info. Sounds like something I will definitely try. What the hell is recycled food? I hope it is not what I think it is? I have heard that there are people who live on their own urine. To each his own I suppose?????!!!!!


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

HI SMING!

I have some questions to ask you:

1. Have you become more conscious as a result of working with ACT?

2. Have you noticed that the mind's observer skills become more sharp as a result of using ACT?

3. What have you discovered about human life and in particular your own life as you worked with the process?

:?: This is not all, but bye for now.


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## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

bump! :roll:


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2006)

poonanny said:


> Get out of your mind and into your life'
> 
> ^^^ good ACT book. Helped my DP/DR decrease about 75%.


seriously ?


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2006)

Hi, sming,

I apparently discovered ACT before it had a name. In other words, I tried this on myself years ago. It worked very well for the free-floating scary and disgusting thoughts.

One problem that I want to ask if you've encountered during this 'therapy.' Have you encountered any 'reflex' thoughts? That's what I call thoughts that have an 'act it out' component. For example, I had, and still have to a certain extent, a tremendous rage in my body. My mind won't even let me 'go there' even when I try out of fear that it will impel me to act on the rage and possibly hurt somebody or destroy something important. It's the last bastion of a brain full of all kinds of thoughts and associated emotional components but the others don't give me a sense that I won't be able to control my outward response to those thoughts.

Did that paragraph make any kind of sense? I sure hope so. I would love to rid myself of this last 'monster.'


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

I too am wondering what ACT is versus what past decades have produced. I am more than happy that folks are using this to gain ground. But I read the Hayes book thinking I would find major breakthroughs and really only saw what pschotherapy has been doing for decades which is to face and accept and above all process. How is ACT any different than this? Just curious, not trying to be negative.
jft


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## sming (May 7, 2005)

Universal said:


> HI SMING!
> 
> I have some questions to ask you:
> 
> 1. Have you become more conscious as a result of working with ACT?


yes.



Universal said:


> 2. Have you noticed that the mind's observer skills become more sharp as a result of using ACT?


yes



Universal said:


> 3. What have you discovered about human life and in particular your own life as you worked with the process?


I have learnt many things. I've learnt that I am not crazy. I've learnt that everyone's minds are swimming with thoughts and that that's OK. I've learnt that you can depend on yourself and that you don't need to pay heed to all your thoughts - you can cope without knowing what to do.

However since then I've come off Remeron and am currently feeling awful :| . I am hoping this will pass as I titrate off it. Just a question of seeing this period through.



Universal said:


> :?: This is not all, but bye for now.


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