# Love



## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

My best friend and I are always discussing love. I'm the cynic of course and she's all about romance and love. She claims she loves this guy she's been with for about 4 years yet she cheats on him with this other guy who she says is her soul mate but she can't have. The guy she's cheating with is the one she really wants but she stays with the other guy so as not to be alone. She admits to all of this. Yet all the while she claims to love her boyfriend. I told her she is trying to convince herself she loves him so she won't feel lonely. Because she can't have the guy she really wants. So... my question is, have you ever been in love, can you describe it, and what do you think love is? Because for me, romantic love is very hard to attain and very rare. One of the only true romantic loves I know of is my grandparents. They are each others everything.

I have a tendency to compare love to the love I feel for my family. For my brother and mom and dad, I would do anything for them. Anything. I would always sacrifice my own happiness for their happiness. This to me is love. But with romantic love, there just always seems to be so much jealousy and selfishness that it is almost impossible to have that kind of love in a "relationship". So I guess there are different kinds of love. But even though romantic love is a different kind of love, because it almost has to be, we expect that kind of love from our partners. Even though its impossible. Now, don't get me wrong, I believe in true love in relationships, I just believe it is very hard and people toss the word around too much. I'm pretty much rambling, but thought it would be interesting to see what other peoples takes on love are.


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## Guest (May 29, 2005)

Hi enngirl,now that's a very big subject LOL

:roll: I'm no expert so I'll leave it to those who are


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## Guest (May 29, 2005)

Enngirl,

To be honest, love terrifies me. And then I dont only mean the friendship kind of love, but real love. I cannot handle people coming (too) close. I always thought I could, but when I really care about someone, and love them, it gets tricky for me. Or when they love me, its almost impossible to get close to me.
I found this out through being in therapy. Love to me is connected with pain, or abuse, or rejection.
But the thing is, in order to heal, I need love. So, a huge dilemma and Scary!!lol

I think I dont know what Love is really and this is also a very confronting discovery (although I have experienced it a couple of times and thought: well, this must be Love! It WAS!).
At the moment Im not upto any kind of closeness/bonding with a significant other. I need to heal more wounds first myself. Then maybe, I can. At least thats what I think. So Im not looking for it, but who knows.
I hope I can find someone special to share my life with though, and that I will be able to let me be loved. Loving others is not a problem for me, although yes, it is scary.

It took me some time to gather my thoughts on this, Enngirl. Maybe I didnt reply to your original post fully, but this is how far Ive come today. Good topic. 8)


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

No Wendy, I wasn't really looking for a specific reply. Just mainly rambling and interested in others thoughts.


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## rainboteers (Apr 5, 2005)

I think don't think there is such a thing as "soulmates." I do believe in love though and finding a kindred spirt. I think it is very rare to find one person who will be right for you for the rest of your life. I don't mind when I hear my friends say, "he's the one." I just say, "yes THE ONE for now."

I am currently in a relationship and if my boyfriend can stick by me through this breakdown, I will most defineately know it is love.

I fear he will lose his patience soon though. I don't really blame him.


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

I know what you mean rainboteers.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

that sounds more like control than love. apparently love can't be controlled. so sometimes people are scared of love and make scenarios where they're like "see! i'm in love, but with no real risk of loss!" to stay safe.

your friend doesn't have to make you a cynic about love. I believe it does exist, but not necessarily in the form experienced by most 15-25 year olds.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

True romantic love is a temporary chemical reaction designed to aid in the survival of the species.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

Scattered said:


> True romantic love is a temporary chemical reaction designed to aid in the survival of the species.


Scattered, you should go to work for Hallmark (in the Valentine's dept.).

That was deeply moving and poetic, it really was! (I'm in tears!)

e


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## Guest (May 30, 2005)

scattered LOL obviously a true romantic.

You might be closer to the truth than some of us what to know about.

I recall watching a TV series about why we are attracted to particular people and not others.
All sorts of primitive behaviour is going on but naturally we humans assume it's much more complex.
Mostly it's got to do with choosing a good breeding partner.

I've often been amused as to why some men are attracted to women who look like they could be their sister.
Apart from being a possible narcissist it's got to do with the man being confident that having children with this woman will carry on his lineage.

Sorry enngirl hardly answers questions about the L word.

Why not look to the poets.

Kahlil Gibran
"Speak to us of Love." 
When love beckons to you follow him, 
Though his ways are hard and steep. 
And when his wings enfold you yield to him, 
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you. 
And when he speaks to you believe in him, 
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden. 
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning. 
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun, 
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth. 
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself. 
He threshes you to make you naked. 
He sifts you to free you from your husks. 
He grinds you to whiteness. 
He kneads you until you are pliant; 
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, 
that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast. 
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart. 
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure, 
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor, 
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears. 
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself. 
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed; 
For love is sufficient unto love. 
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," 
but rather, I am in the heart of God." 
And think not you can direct the course of love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. 
Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself. 
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires: 
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night. 
To know the pain of too much tenderness. 
To be wounded by your own understanding of love; 
And to bleed willingly and joyfully. 
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving; 
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy; 
To return home at eventide with gratitude; 
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.


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## Guest (May 30, 2005)

Love is indeed a defense mechanism.

There is that poem in the bible that has a line that sais "love is selfless" or some bullshit like that. That is BS itself. Love is a bit selfish. While we may want to truly love the person and we do things to the person that are called "acts of love" to make them feel good, we are really doing it to benefit ourselves and to protect ourselves from negative feelings. And we also to do it to boost our spirits in a world that crushes the soul.

Everything in the body and soul is just something to protect us from the big bad lion outside the cave.


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

Well, I find guys that I've dated, if their mom is blonde, they want a blonde and if she's brunette they want a brunette. It's kind of funny. The fact is, love is just a word and a concept, so why do we try to attach so much meaning to it? I was talking to my friend, and I was like, "We're so obsessed with this word. Does he love me? If he loves me then everything is ok. I just want to know he loves me." So what if he loves you. What difference does it make really? I'm sure most of us have heard this quote, "Even though he doesn't love me the way I want, doesn't mean he doesn't love me with all he's got." To me, that quote is a prescription for a fucked up relationship. But I'm biased because I first heard the quote by a woman online in a really bad relationship.

So girls date their brothers and fathers, and men date their moms and sisters. This was always interesting to me. What do you guys think of this? I half way see it as true and half way see it as not true at all. Same goes for us finding someone that's good to have children with. I don't know about that one.


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## Guest (May 31, 2005)

actually enngirl it isn't true of all males as my son loves dark haired,dark skinned girls.I'm blonde,blue eyed and fair(celtic skin).
He had a part Balines girlfriend for a couple of years(she was my fav).

My daughter likes them blonde but she's a dark brunette and her Dad is too.

Myself I go for the opposite,just like my son.My boyfriend has black hair and brown eyes.

Many say opposites attract.

I don't know waht the scientist say about this LOL


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

I have an aversion to medication and think love would serve the same purpose as prozac. It would "balance" me out and make me feel more connected.


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## rainboteers (Apr 5, 2005)

What I look for in a guy:

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you ache for, and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are. I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain! I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it, or fix it.

I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own, if you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true. I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day, and if you can source your own life from its presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still stand on the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes!"

It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have. I want to know if you can get up, after the night of grief and despair, weary and bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done to feed the children.

It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here. I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied. I want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like the company you keep in the empty moments.


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

The last time, actually, every time, a woman has said to me that they loved me (excluding the women in my family) I have looked at them and thought, actually, knew, that they were completely insane.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Unfortunately, Scattered is absolutely spot on.

Still, doesn't make this mysterious love any less real than any other emotion, and to act on it for the better or worse. Besides, people feel love in different ways...the knee shaking romantic type is either life-long companionship, or a teenage hormonal crush.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2005)

I'm like Harvey Pekar. I'll take just about any woman that'll have me. Also like Mr. Pekar, I think there's an imbalance in the chemicals in my brain.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2005)

Have you even been in love? Horrible, isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens your heart and it means someone can get inside you and mess you up. You build up all these defenses. You build up this whole armor, for years, so nothing can hurt you, then one stupid person, no different from any other stupid person, wanders into your stupid life...

You give them a piece of you. They don't ask for it. They do something dumb one day like kiss you, or smile at you, and then your life isn't your own anymore. Love takes hostages. It gets inside you. It eats you out and leaves you crying in the darkness, so a simple phrase like "maybe we should just be friends" or "how very perceptive" turns into a glass splinter working its way into your heart. It hurts. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a body-hurt, a real gets-inside-you-and-rips-you-apart pain. I hate love. 
in Sandman: The Kindly Ones by Neil Gaiman


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2005)

XEPER, what country are you in?

If you're in England:

Surrey
Woking
Chameleon nightclub
Slags

Sorted.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2005)

Love is weird

I recently met this girl, who I like, we have alot in common, shes attractive & shes a good person. We can also relate to each others problems which is good. I don't know what the future holds in terms of a relationship, possibly something positive, but knowing me & the way my life is, something will fuck up. Also the fact that I have high standards doesn't help. Im not in love with her right now, i like her and want to explore the possibility of a relationship. I know for a fact that she likes me, and Im thinking in a boyfriend sense cuz thats what shes kind of expressed.

I do know one thing though, we went to the movies the other day, and she grabbed my hand & just held it and what have you, and at first i was taken by surprise, but after a while, i was like damn, this feels good, just to be close to someone outside of your family and feel that positive energy. I think LOVE can do wonders for those of us who feel depressed or lonely, but at the same time LOVE can tear you apart and make you feel horrible, so often people feel like they have to keep their guards up.

But like I said, with my luck, i'll probably end up feeling even more miserable when all is said and done.

ahh what a Optimist I am, lol


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## rainboteers (Apr 5, 2005)

deleted


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

Love. I switch between feeling lonely, and knowing I really don't want a relationship right now. It's not really a matter of not wanting one. I can't have one. My anxiety is through the roof, I can't even imagine going on a date and trying to talk to some dude I don't even know. Trying to connect. And I can't get drunk which is pretty much the mating ritual of 18-35 year olds in America trying to pick each other up. The weekends are the hardest because I'm alone. I see all these couples shopping and hugging each other and laughing together and I miss that. I miss the playfulness. I don't really know what's going to happen to me. I can't be alone forever. Can I?
I was walking my dog the other night and I was thinking this sucks I'm alone on another Friday night. And this car passed with these cute guys, and I thought, damn. And they slowed down to talk to me, and at that moment, I thought, Go away, God I hope they don't stop and I kind of turned around and tried not to make eye contact with them. And when they left I kinda laughed to myself, because one minute I'm thinking I'm lonely, then someone stops and at that moment all I want is for them to go away and not bug me. That was so funny to me that that's how screwed up I am. 
What the hell am I gonna do? In all reality, I really don't want a relationship but when I see other people happy I want that. Only for a moment. Like 99% of the time I'm happy being alone. But that other 1% I wish I just had someone to lay around and snuggle with. And I don't, and this is my life.


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

Dates at the movies are the best. Especially the first hand hold. I know how you feel soulbro. I watched two good movies recently, one was pretty twisted, The Secretary, but it was sexy as hell. I love James Spader. I think that movie is what started my latest I need a man thing. But I just watched it the night before last. I'll get over it.


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## Axel19 (Aug 11, 2004)

Deary me enngirl/Kate (I vaguely remember that being your name), I know exactly how you feel. It's been almost a whole year without any love interest whatsoever. No girlfriend, no flings casual or passionate, no girl to fancy (have a crush on), no girl to provide some physical affection (girlfriend or not), nothing. It is lonely.

I think that your not getting drunk does indeed make things very difficult. I know it sounds sad, but that's how things work in America and the U.K, and probably most of Europe. I'm not sure how much of a bad thing it is really. People take alchohol to overcome the anxiety which could potentially prevent them from finding a partner. They are placed in an evironment where potential partners are plentiful and social barriers are relaxed. It's the perfect environment for courtship in our society.
I say all this because I've spent the past year trying not to get drunk. I missed out on a whole lot of socialising and friend making. So in the past month of uni' I started getting drunk again. I had a lot of fun I think, and well whilts I din't meet anyone, I certianly saw a great deal of possibility and was once again opened up to the possibility of finding someone. I don't care what anyone says, it's fun and healthy to be part fo a large social circle who rely heavily on being drunk for its existence. 
All of my best and most memorable first kisses have been whilst slightly drunk. Of course it is those times when you kiss, sober, in the cold light of day that are the most special, but I maintain that without alchohol I wouldn't have had any significant romantic interaction whatsoever, and I'm not ashamed of that in the least.
Not that I'm encouraging you to do so, but why exactly is it that you don't drink?


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm afraid it will my my dr/anxiety worse. I need to give it another shot one night but I just don't wanna rock the boat.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2005)

enngirl5 said:


> I'm afraid it will my my dr/anxiety worse. I need to give it another shot one night but I just don't wanna rock the boat.


It only does for me if I get hungover - so drink plenty of water (not fizzy drinks or crap like that - just normal water) while you're out, take a multivitamin and mineral tablet with orange juice before you go to bed and you'll be fine. :wink: I also have a pint of water when I get in but depends how drunk you get and what you drink.


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