# My greatest fear...



## fingertingle

Endlessness.
The endlessness of the physical. The fact that "things" have to expand _in some form_ forever
..take a moment and IMAGINE IT, going on forever and ever, eventually you're going to make your mind put an end to things, but if you've done it long enough, your heart is probably pounding like mine..

This and:
The prospect of an afterlife. Endlessness of yourself or the existence of a "soul."

I find the notion of God to be pretty ridiculous, but a "tier-together" of everything, a sort of "spiritual undercurrent" seems sort of feasible.

I'm terrified of an afterlife that NEVER ends. The thought of having a soul is terrifying. If I have one, I want it to have the ability to die. Which kind of runs again the whole idea of a soul? I can't believe people COMFORT themselves with the idea.

Imagine NEVER BEING ABLE TO DIE. It would be torture. People can't conceive of the horror of it because they see an end to everything. Similar to the idea of God - they have to have a creator because they see creation. And in most cases, they see this creator in the form of a man. Almighty cloudman.

As long as I can remember, I've thought of things this way. I remember when we read whateverthehellthatbookwas with the Fountain of Youth in elementary school we were asked if we would drink from it. All the little kids wanted to find it. I was like... FUCK if this really existed I would NEVER go near another drinking fountain again. I was the only kid in my class who wouldn't even THINK of drinking for eternal earthly existence.

ETERNITY. No matter how happy a person's life is, it still sounds maddening, terrifying, horrible. Everyone is scared of Hell, but eventually, in an eternal and endless state, you'd FEEL the flames of Hell.


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## boohoo

That frightens me too, but annoyingly, I can't help but believe in an afterlife. My greatest fear, and the thing I was always thinking about when I was really bad was how everything started. That's what scared me the most, especially when I was dozing off to sleep at night, I'd suddenly think about it and fear would jolt through me.
I keep trying to make myself believe in God because at least then I think I'd feel more safe, but like you said, the idea really is ridiculous, isn't it. And although I definitely believe in the idea that we progress spiritually, it still scares me. People often say that believing in an afterlife is the easy way out, but since I've had dp I think that being an athiest is the easy way out. That way, there's far less to think about.


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## Martinelv

Indeed - I've made this point before (but not so eloquently). I can't think of anything worse than an eternal afterlife. Really, I can't. If people think about it for more than a second ("Yes - an afterlife of bliss, that'll do me. Right, next?") then I think they'll find the idea, or rather the concept, a bit scarey.



> People often say that believing in an afterlife is the easy way out, but since I've had dp I think that being an athiest is the easy way out


I'm tempted to agree, but, sigh, unfortunately people with faith do find some form of comfort in it. I still believe it's akin to sticking your head in the sand but seeing as life is short, who really cares? Same as benzo's - if you have chronic long-term DR/DP which is only relieved by benzo's then I say eat them for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

It is comforting, in a way, as an atheist, to know that when you die it will be an end to suffering. And end to everything. Which is why as an atheists we should try and live our lives as fully as possible, because as far as we know, it's the only one we get!


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## Scattered

Live life as fully as possible.

Think about this. Once the life that you have fully lived is over, it will be as if it never happened. In fact, it might has well have never happend in the first place. There would be no entity to remember it. After a while, all those that were associated with you will die and all memory or shred of evidence of your existance will simply cease to be.

Live life to the fullest. Bullshit.

Will it to be more than it is. Or die.


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## Martinelv

Jesus H Christ. How can one man be so furious at the thought of being something other than savagely depressed?

I'm not trying to evangelise here Scattered. OK, fullest was the wrong word. I should have used 'Enjoy' perhaps. 



> Once the life that you have fully lived is over, it will be as if it never happened. In fact, it might has well have never happend in the first place. There would be no entity to remember it. After a while, all those that were associated with you will die and all memory or shred of evidence of your existance will simply cease to be.


So? Does this fact lessen your depression and self-loathing too? I would have thought that logic applies to all emotional responses.


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## MrMortgage

fingertingle said:


> Endlessness.
> The endlessness of the physical. The fact that "things" have to expand _in some form_ forever
> ..take a moment and IMAGINE IT, going on forever and ever, eventually you're going to make your mind put an end to things, but if you've done it long enough, your heart is probably pounding like mine..
> 
> This and:
> The prospect of an afterlife. Endlessness of yourself or the existence of a "soul."
> 
> I find the notion of God to be pretty ridiculous, but a "tier-together" of everything, a sort of "spiritual undercurrent" seems sort of feasible.
> 
> I'm terrified of an afterlife that NEVER ends. The thought of having a soul is terrifying. If I have one, I want it to have the ability to die. Which kind of runs again the whole idea of a soul? I can't believe people COMFORT themselves with the idea.
> 
> Imagine NEVER BEING ABLE TO DIE. It would be torture. People can't conceive of the horror of it because they see an end to everything. Similar to the idea of God - they have to have a creator because they see creation. And in most cases, they see this creator in the form of a man. Almighty cloudman.
> 
> As long as I can remember, I've thought of things this way. I remember when we read whateverthehellthatbookwas with the Fountain of Youth in elementary school we were asked if we would drink from it. All the little kids wanted to find it. I was like... f--- if this really existed I would NEVER go near another drinking fountain again. I was the only kid in my class who wouldn't even THINK of drinking for eternal earthly existence.
> 
> ETERNITY. No matter how happy a person's life is, it still sounds maddening, terrifying, horrible. Everyone is scared of Hell, but eventually, in an eternal and endless state, you'd FEEL the flames of Hell.


Nobody can prove that God is good....I worry that he makes us think he's good but really evil. And when we finally get to where we're going he takes us to a worse place!

Lets face it, when life is going good and when everyone on this site was
"mentally well" life was good even great for some of us.....but once we hit mental issues or when people go blind or deaf or hit some type of physical issue life becomes a stuggle!

In the end...and I've said this before; life is all about suffering. There is more time of suffering then feeling good. And some people have it worse then others, that's a fact!


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## Scattered

Yes. So lets not play pretend. If we take life at face value, then it is all about suffering. Its woefully inadequate at best and horrifically painful at worst. So either we take life as it is, at face value, and admit that it is shit or we aknowledge that it is more than it is.

If you believe that only what you can see, hear, smell, taste, etc is the sum total of life, then lets not fuck around, it sucks. The most that can be acquired are momentary pleasures. We are just not wired for a life of bliss or happiness or satisfaction. Everything fades, distorts, or decays.

I'm simply proposing that there is this sort of decision that has to be made. We either decide to believe that it is what it is and it sucks. Or we decide to believe that its more than it is and theres something better beyond. I'm not advocating a decision, I'm juts bringing attention to the choice. If you disagree then fine, but this is certainly not about simply being depressed for the sake of depression.


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## MrMortgage

Scattered said:


> Yes. So lets not play pretend. If we take life at face value, then it is all about suffering. Its woefully inadequate at best and horrifically painful at worst. So either we take life as it is, at face value, and admit that it is sh*t or we aknowledge that it is more than it is.
> 
> If you believe that only what you can see, hear, smell, taste, etc is the sum total of life, then lets not f--- around, it sucks. The most that can be acquired are momentary pleasures. We are just not wired for a life of bliss or happiness or satisfaction. Everything fades, distorts, or decays.
> 
> I'm simply proposing that there is this sort of decision that has to be made. We either decide to believe that it is what it is and it sucks. Or we decide to believe that its more than it is and theres something better beyond. I'm not advocating a decision, I'm juts bringing attention to the choice. If you disagree then fine, but this is certainly not about simply being depressed for the sake of depression.


Very true! Also, I feel that our brains are more advanced then our bodies. Like we can think and imagine things that humans will never acomplish. It's torture, to be able to think up weird and crazy things...sometimes scary things and not be able to do anything about it. Our body is a prison...that's the closest thing I can compare it to....Youre mind can do things the rest of youre body cant.

It's like having a powerful processor for youre computer and not having a good video card to back up the power.


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## peacedove

This is my greatest fear also and the cause of my DP. Endlessness, God, infinity, whatever you want to call it. This is what I was thinking about when my DP hit. If I believed I would cease to exist when this body dies I would kill myself in a second. But it's the fear of living forever in a worse place that keeps me alive in this hell.


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## MrMortgage

Nice german shepard peacedove!!!


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## peacedove

Thanks. I need a better pic, can't wait til I get myself a digital camera.


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## Monkeydust

> Think about this. Once the life that you have fully lived is over, it will be as if it never happened. In fact, it might has well have never happend in the first place. There would be no entity to remember it. After a while, all those that were associated with you will die and all memory or shred of evidence of your existance will simply cease to be.
> 
> Live life to the fullest. Bullshit.
> 
> Will it to be more than it is. Or die.


Hmm...your views never seem to make much sense to me. On the one hand, you like to harp on like a jumped-up postmodernist about the relativity and subjectivity of all experience, saying how we can't speak for anything outside of our own sensations or beyond our own perceptions; on the other, however, you appear to forever claim that you have discovered the single, universally applicable truth about life: that it's somehow "woefully inadequate at best and horrifically painful at worst". You also seem to think that anyone who is happy in life is somehow deluding themselves.

I think what all this betrays is a fundamental misunderstanding of what life is all about.

It's a cliche, but a true one, to say that life is largely what you make of it. These values that we attach to it -"crap", "horrific", "wonderful", "dull", "amazing", whatever takes your fancy - do not exist intrinsically and external to the observer, but are imposed as our own subjective meanings on our experience as we perceive it. If you incessantly wish to perceive life as one long tortuous and pointless endeavour then that is what it will *be* for you. No surprises there.

Now, I agree with you that in many, perhaps most, ways the world is a pretty bleak place. I think that's pretty undeniable right now. However it doesn't follow that we somehow _have_ to be miserable bastards and resign oursleves to a position of indignant misery and haggard cynicism.

Live, form relationships, have a laugh, develop your skills and talents, do stuff you enjoy doing, develop your mind, work towards a career that you enjoy, get laid...these are all things that help you to feel good and see life as not so bad after all. And all these things and others can be done quite easily in the world as it is now.

Of course, it's much easier to sit back and pretend that it's not worth it because it's all bollocks anyway. This, to me, is a pretty cowardly thing to do. If you have the capacity to be happy, but _choose_ not to be, then it's unsurprising why you'll come back unsatisfied every time. Think about what you're doing to yourselves, guys. Change is often not so hard if only you're willing to alter the way you look at things.

MonkeyD


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## alphaman

The terrible thoughts of infinity and the mystery of existence have created anguish in myself, at certain points in time, since about 11 years old. 
I used to call them 'existence attacks' until I found this forum and realised it was DR (or DP?).

I don't think that the universe will be so cruel as to curse souls with insanity and torment 'forever'. The core religious teachings tell us that beyond the pale there is love and a unified God... but that in this incarnation on earth we suffer. Why else the 'rest in peace' at the graveside in christian burials?
I suspect part of us really dies when we die...and that our soul is not the same as our conciousness....its with us when we sleep, at a deeper level. 
Time, space etc are constructs of conciousness. They do not exist in the same way when you are asleep, why should they after death?

Still, its as if my (our) souls are so disconnected they are trapped in a private hell when thinking the bad thoughts... its a sort of warped hyperconciousness, overclocked computer.
I';ve had a couple of horrid experiences on cannabis, which suggests there is a lot of brain chemistry involved. Obivously when you are dead, you're brain rots, so conciousness post death has to be different. 
There will be no physical body to get anxious for a start! Much less of an 'I' as well.

I think a trap is to take it too seriously...as if somehow you are tasting 'reality' and staring into the void as it really is. I'm not sure that that is the case.

I suspect most of what we are taught about the universe in our culture is just wrong. Even the notion of 'space', of things being far away, may be very different when you are actually in space - synchronicities, telepathy etc which are pretty common among people I know at a low level, all fly in the face of established models.

So I kind of think parts of our psyches are like poor mice locked in a black box with a bunch of lies - spiritually bereft, standed and terrified. 
I've started seeing a counsellor/energy healer. When she first touched my head, she said it was 'like a freighttrain coming out'! <laugh>

Working on the body has been a great help - the DR episodes I have are thankfully intermittent, and I do think that anxiety, tension etc are part of the problem.

Telling my wife about my recent bout of anixety with DR thinking also helped. I can be a very selfcentered, cutoff and anxious person - reaching out is important for me to heal, I know that now.

I suspect many on this board are very intellectual deep thinker types, and mental anguish and difficulties does seem to be a common problem for that type of person (as well as very creative types). There may be cultural aspects to this as well, not enough grounding, minds getting to much folding in on itself, incorrect models and myths about reality itself, poorly constructed egos: as well as malfunctioning brain chemistry.

The terror of existence and the vile DR state I don;t think is an ultimate truth, even though it feels like it...
I don;t think our deeper selves fear death...its perfectly natural, like sleep. I reckon its the upper mind that gets screwed up.

I now identify 'DR' thoughts as a product of anxiety and a troubled mind, and try to just move on, and address the anxiety and heal myself.

Fortunately I've had months or years without DR attacks so I know its only temporary.

AM



peacedove said:


> This is my greatest fear also and the cause of my DP. Endlessness, God, infinity, whatever you want to call it. This is what I was thinking about when my DP hit. If I believed I would cease to exist when this body dies I would kill myself in a second. But it's the fear of living forever in a worse place that keeps me alive in this hell.





peacedove said:


> This is my greatest fear also and the cause of my DP. Endlessness, God, infinity, whatever you want to call it. This is what I was thinking about when my DP hit. If I believed I would cease to exist when this body dies I would kill myself in a second. But it's the fear of living forever in a worse place that keeps me alive in this hell.


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## Scattered

> Hmm...your views never seem to make much sense to me. On the one hand, you like to harp on like a jumped-up postmodernist about the relativity and subjectivity of all experience, saying how we can't speak for anything outside of our own sensations or beyond our own perceptions; on the other, however, you appear to forever claim that you have discovered the single, universally applicable truth about life: that it's somehow "woefully inadequate at best and horrifically painful at worst". You also seem to think that anyone who is happy in life is somehow deluding themselves.


My views don't make any sense because ranting, venting, anger, sadness, embarassment, often take the form of irrationality when they are expressed. I say alot of things out of anger and confusion. I say alot of things because I am sad and every minute of every day I try to understand who I am, why I am, and what I will be, if anything, after I am dead. I don't profess to have found a universal truth, I profess to have found a deeply personal truth that I don't want to believe in but have found no better answer. People say to be happy just for the hell of it, throw away all your baggage and just enjoy life. I can't enjoy life without a reason why I should enjoy a life that is so confusing, while so many suffer for no reason. If I could turn a switch and have all my bad thoughts go away, I would, but my "switch" is the discovery of a method to this madness. I haven't found it.

I treat my truth as if it is an objective truth, because I want to challenge other peoples opinions and I want them to offer me an answer that makes sense. No ones answers have made any sense. When you're getting laid, out having a good time there are people who are starving to death. Bombs are dropping from the sky and obliterating families. Disease is killing hundreds of thousands of people. The vast majority of the people on this planet live in conditions that most in the west would consider reason enough for suicide. To just die because its not worth it. If you can go about life and be happy while this is occuring then you are either A) Deluding yourself or B) have an answer; a reason or C) simply don't give a sh*t.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be happy. But if you really have a problem with my opinion after taking a look at this world, then I suppose we are living on very different planets.


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## Monkeydust

> I treat my truth as if it is an objective truth, because I want to challenge other peoples opinions and I want them to offer me an answer that makes sense. No ones answers have made any sense. When you're getting laid, out having a good time there are people who are starving to death. Bombs are dropping from the sky and obliterating families. Disease is killing hundreds of thousands of people. The vast majority of the people on this planet live in conditions that most in the west would consider reason enough for suicide. To just die because its not worth it. If you can go about life and be happy while this is occuring then you are either A) Deluding yourself or B) have an answer; a reason or C) simply don't give a sh*t.
> 
> I'm not saying you shouldn't be happy. But if you really have a problem with my opinion after taking a look at this world, then I suppose we are living on very different planets.


I don't think that's fair on all those people who actually *do* care about the problems in the world and work hard to change them. The central issue here which I don't understand in you is why you can't be sad _about_ the problems in the world but still be happy overall. So many people, who whatever you like to tell yourself are *not* delusional, are able to live happy lives generally _at the same time_ as feeling sadness over the plight of parts of the world, and acting practically to change things.

It doesn't need to be "one or the other".


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## Scattered

Yeah I think you're right to some extent. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The reason why I'm steadfast in my opinion is not that there is suffering, its the extent of the suffering. An extent to which, to me, seems incomprehensible. I don't go through it or experience, but in this age of media where we are increasingly aware of world events, it becomes harder to avoid seeing how bad things can be. This becomes a sort of perfect image of my confusion of the world. It sums it up perfectly. Why? Why does this have to happen? and if this does happen does this mean that my life doesn't mean anything? if it could be ended so quickly, mercilessly, and with no obvious reason or purpose? I can't ignore questions like that, it makes it difficult to be happy. If you were truely examining the state of the world, there would be no room for happiness. The balances are so far tipped in one direction. There has to be SOME way of not paying attention to daily events. Some avoid the news or distance themselves from the implications of what they hear.

I don' think theres anything neccessarily wrong with this, its just that I have a harder time doing in than others.


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## Guest

Wow.. i thought I was the only one who thought the same thing.
I guess theres many other people out there who think of such things too.
That is one of my greatest fears too, but it's really best not to think about such things or else it could destroy you alot.


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## peacedove

So how do you guys deal with this? It is a constant fear for me and it's like even when I'm not thinking about it... it's there. I can't control it. I'm so scared... I have to fight back tears in a bathroom stall at work. I am so miserable. I don't know how I get through the day. How the hell do you get rid of something like this?


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## Depersonalized

don't worry death is the end to anything, thats the beauty of it, just have faith :twisted:


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## julie13

I understand about these deep fears that control your (our) lives. I feel like I have all of the tools to live a happy life, I just can't get these paranoias out of my mind. I can't have blind faith that there is an all just God, who loves me. I wonder how anybody can?? I guess I have always been a skeptic, I wish I could just believe and lead a "normal" life, worrying about such petty things as boyfriends, or how my hair looks. (how ridiculous!) I just turned 24, but I feel like im 80...maybe my "soul" has been around for way too long, but whoever said life is short obviously didn't have dp!!

I too felt like i had discovered a universal truth, when my dp hit, that my whole existence was conjured up. I figured since i finally "solved the puzzle," God was going to take me from this life. I waited casually to die...sat back on my next flight and waited for it to plunge into the earth. But nothing happened. I'm still "alive" in the physical sense, so it leads me to believe that I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about. I have no answers, and it absolutely floors me that some people can go through life without thinking about these things. I can't continue, unless I know where I came from...it makes me wonder why life is designed this way.


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## Guest

julie13 said:


> but whoever said life is short obviously didn't have dp!


Very true!


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## deep_feeler

I don't believe that anything created us. For something to create us, it would have to consciousness, ideas about what is and what could be, intentionality. Think about this - a God, at the beginning of time before anything else - how would it know itself? How would it know the Other? Our notions about ourselves only come from the Other. Moreover, intentionality, planning, knowing we are going to do something comes from language. When I am making a sandwich, in my mind, I say, "I need bread, I need dijon - no, I need regular mustard". You see? And language only comes out of the necessity of communication. Consciousness is rooted in language. Thus, a being at the beggining of time, could not have had language, would not have needed language - it would not have had consciousness.

If "God" could not have known himself, how would He have known the Other. We were not created, we rose from chaos, and our consciousness rose from the need to deal with the world we rose into. Consciousness is a tool, it is not more than that. God is a tool, a tool deal with questions we have no answer to, to deal with the trauma of our non-existence.


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## CECIL

To the OP: What you describe sounds a lot like the anxiety attacks I used to get. Infiinity is one scary experience. Or at least it can be. If you have a safe and solid foundation to work on (A space to call your own, your own real mental space) then you can tackle the infinite at your leisure.

I think there is a simple answer to the doubters: Close your eyes and imagine not existing. Imagine you don't exist, nothing exists. Its impossible. If you want you can argue against this by saying "That's just because we currently exist and then we won't", but I don't buy it, sorry.

Also, to everyone who thinks life is a complete waste of time and can't wait to die, you have two choices:

1. Accept everything you preach. You will never amount to anything, life is one big struggle and nothing will ever mean anything. In the end you die and that's that. If you honestly believe this, kill yourself imediately. If you find any reason not to kill yourself, proceed to choice 2...

2. If you don't like how your life is going, do anything and everything in your power to change it. You can change it, life is what you make of it. You DO have the power, you just have to find it. Note: This WILL mean challenging the way you think and listening more closely to how you feel. It WILL be difficult, but its worth it.


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## Catharsis

CECIL said:


> I think there is a simple answer to the doubters: Close your eyes and imagine not existing. Imagine you don't exist, nothing exists. Its impossible. If you want you can argue against this by saying "That's just because we currently exist and then we won't", but I don't buy it, sorry.


Um, that's not so hard when you have hardcore DP.
Trying to think of "actually not existing" was one of the things that sent me into chronic DP.


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## CECIL

No, what sent you into hardcore DP was an intense *fear* about the *IDEA* of not existing. THAT really IS terrifying!

My point is that if you can get past the fear of the idea and actually try to experience it...you fail. You realise that there was never anything to fear because its simply unimaginable 

Its tricky to get to that stage but quite possible, I assure you


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## Martinique

peacedove said:


> This is my greatest fear also and the cause of my DP. Endlessness, God, infinity, whatever you want to call it. This is what I was thinking about when my DP hit. If I believed I would cease to exist when this body dies I would kill myself in a second. But it's the fear of living forever in a worse place that keeps me alive in this hell.


That's it exactly. Tired of living and scared of dying. But Ol' Man River he just keeps Rolling along. Gawd bless old gospel songs.


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## ?real?ity?

how is this a fear, you could think of something more fucked up use your imagination ;p


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## CECIL

?real?ity? said:


> how is this a fear, you could think of something more flower* up use your imagination ;p


The most intensely terrifying moments in my life were of imagining and experiencing infinity. Sounds wierd but there it is.

As for a fresh view: The whole idea of eternal bliss is a bit flawed. When you die you can go there if you want. But you'll get bored. Stupidly bored. That's why Adam and Eve ate from the tree in the first place. That's why we reincarnate down here and create fucked up situations for ourselves to go through - because when we return to that all-knowing state we go "Wow, that was awesome, I wanna go again!".

On another note, believing in reincarnation was one way I stepped out of the shadow of suicide. I began to think "I'm here for a reason and I have to figure it out. If I kill myself now then I'll just have to come back and do it over again, so there's no point". At first it made me feel even more trapped, but then I realised there was no out, only through. That gave me the little push I needed to start healing.


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## ?real?ity?

will reedit later


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