# New Member - [ DPD for 34 Years ] - New Website for DPD/DRD Sufferers



## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi All,

This is a copy of a pst I made about 2 weeks ago on the Facebook DPD/DRD Group. I first met Selig on there. I recently started a new website up, I will list more about that at the end of the post.

Quote:



> This is kind of a revelation, I have had depersonalization for at least 35 years. I suffered a nervous breakdown when I was 17 and was hospitalised [vol] for several weeks, then almost 2 years out-patient. It started way back, when I was 14 or 15. I have had it ever since. Back then early 80's very little was known, so it was just something I was told I had and [was tested for several times] along with other issues. At the time, I know this led me to feeling I was going mad/insane or was in some way wrong or not "normal". I was sure for a long time I was going insane, but was never told [they probably did not know] that it was common and nothing to be worried about. I ended up with chronic OCD for several years, mostly due to fears of impending madness. I beat the OCD with difficulty but suffered from acute depression for many years. Being hospitalised after 2 serious suicide attempts and ending on life support. As part of my treatment for depression back then I was given ativan [Benzo] along with other various cocktails. I came of ativan for about 5 years, but found the depersonalisation was so bad again, although I thought it was me losing my sanity [again] I was put back on ativan. I have now been on Ativan for 35 years with a 5 year break. I never knew until now [read on a website about DP] that it was that, that was the problem. I still get it often, even on ativan, but its manageable. This has had such a huge impact on my life. I suffered no trauma as a child, had great childhood, did not do any illicit drugs till way past post DP. But I know it was the root cause of my fears, depression, suicide attempts, self harm [before it became a hobby]. Why has so little been done to explore this field, its been known about for so long!
> 
> I have to say finding out its as common [relatively speaking] and is the cause of so much, has been such an eye opener and that you have a group for it. That others suffering the same have come together. I am now 49, a divorced father of 2 boys. ONLY now do I find out, wow, life sure is funny...... I actually could cry. So sorry or rambling on my first post to group, but was such a shock finding you. - Shaun


My DP has been and is continuous, which was probably why I found it so hard to cope with. I have had it for so long now that its really part of me to the extent I don't notice it. If I am feeling DP and then actively think about it, it will intensify and get worse. But after having it for this long, it is so much a part of me that I don't consciously notice it anymore. I know when you fight it, it becomes much much worse. When you focus on it or think about it. It intensifies when I am stressed, anxious etc, but generally having it every day, makes it really a part of my life. I have heard the same thing from other long term DP/DR sufferers. The thing is, we know there is no cure, it is generally lifelong, whether episodic or every day, so learning to cope with it is really the best way forward. One of the most vital things is to live your life normally and to know, you are not going mad and that it affects millions of people, its just part of who we are. NOT being scared of it and just living with it is the only way forward IMHO. I know most people who do live.cope with it have accepted it and move on with their life. It really does not mean normality has to end, life can continue and is or can be as good as ever! If this is the hand that god dealt us, then facing it and living with it, is what we have to do. Life is good and we just have to learn to integrate DP/DR into our lives to the point where it does not disrupt or alter our lives! DP does not change the you in you, we are no different, its just perceptual!

*New Website:*

Hia People, I have setup a site yesterday, as a resource centre for DPD. I think it would be great if we could have actual experiences posted, self help articles, videos, really anything we know that can help other sufferers. The site is up and running, although v early days yet. If anyone can or wants to help, please let me know. If you have any ideas or know of resources etc or anyone else, please let me know. I really would like this to be run by DP sufferers for DP sufferers. Comments and criticism are very welcome The URL is here: http://www.depersonalisation.org/ The site is pretty much a framework with a few items added, so now would be a good idea of thoughts, comments etc. - Hope this will help at lest some people eventually!

Hia All, this is the outline of where I would like to be going with the DPD/DRD/DID website. Progress is coming along, although much still to be done. Please, as this is going to be a hub, [that's the plan at least for sufferers and Medical practitioners alike, it needs to be very up to date] I am listing the news section below with a rough guide to plans for the future, please if you can spare the time, check out the site and provide feedback, errors, omissions etc.

[05-August-2014] ~ This is the first news item, as of today the site is 4 days old. There has been quite a bit added, but its still very much bare bones and framework. I have revised the header image. Hope you like the changes. I want to be very careful in both content provided and content linked to as DPD/DRD/DID as stand alone conditions/disorders are still very new. There is much quackery and old and simply wrong information out there. There are several things that need doing, I will list them, plans for the future, things also that I think are essential for those suffering from any of he disorders. I have added a Google translate to every page, if those of you who are non native English speakers, could you email me or use feedback/contact form to let me know how it works. The following are things I consider essential for both sufferers and for the site to offer.

Good accurate questionnaires for a rough guide to knowing if you suffer from DPD/DRD
More self help items on CBT [ Cognitive Behavioural Training] and other forms of self help, video audio and written guides. [Ideas, suggestions VERY welcome].

More up to date information for medical practitioners. If you are a Dr/Therapist please feel free to add or comment.
A 24 hour manned service for sufferers of to call or otherwise chat about their disorder. Bearing in mind the self harm, anxiety, depression, OCD, suicide and other risks sufferers are at risk of. I envisage a system, integrating chat, numerous phone numbers, linking to a central set of helpers/volunteers. This can be via site chat, Skype chat, Skype redirects for calls, re-routing to various volunteers. Also the availability of help in native languages, not the main European languages, but Arabic, Chinese [Simplified], Hindi and others added as we grow.
Coming from a games design background, I also think developing apps for smartphones would be a great step forward. Many people in poorer countries do not have pc or reliable access to the internet, a smartphone app would offer descriptions, videos, wren help and much else. I think given the volume of people with severe trauma in poorer countries, this would be a massive help.

I am sorry for the long post, but just wanted to let you know of a new resource and also, looking for, advice, help, input etc. Just because I have had DP for 34 years, does not mean I have all the answers and everybodies perceptions are different as is everyones experience of DPD/DRD. The main aim for the wbsite really is to offer free, useful, up to date advice and help for all sufferers. There are a ton of sites, but there also seem to be many for making money and or offereing quack cures!

Cheers and if you made it this far, many thanks - Shaun


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## Sa-lB (Jul 16, 2013)

It say's there is a problem with your link.

But I think this is a brilliant idea .


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi AG,

The ideas are pretty disimilar. I am aiming for a hub, kind of a collection point for sufferers and therapists. Coming from a game design background, I also think developing apps can help an awful lot with DPD/DRD. I worked with the USMC for many years designing software and Cognitive Training Programs for them. We worked with several major psycholgical and behavoural researchers, building and learning how to design software that had quantifiable results in building memory to retain and discard certain information. Klein Associates have several papers on the results online I think. The research was funded by ONR/DARPA and other govt bodies. I also know and have friends who served in Iraq and other conflicts who are suffering PTSD. They are v similar to DP/DR and again are in much need of help. The VA is useless in dealin with this and many ex service personel end up homeless suffering a wide range of DP/DR Disorders. There is a need for free and readily accesible, reliable and useful treatment options and information.

Given the current state of confusion and argument between professionals about DPD, also the fact that as a recognised underlying disorder it is such a recent event, the more information that is readily accessible by as many people as possible, would be better? There are very few sites listing really thorough research and treatment plans for sufferers. Many that do are bogus and just there to make money!

I also want to produce some high quality videos for sufferers and in several of the main languages. If you think of all the trauma based DPD/DRD/DID across both the Arab and African countries, there is a need for localised information. The basic ideas are not that alike. I posted to Nicholas and chatted about the site before I started. Why? Do you think there is too much information at the current time? I also want to setup a help line, so people desperate or really in need of somone who understands DPD can actually chat to people who know what its like.

I know when I was young, it was awful, I was convinced I was going insane because of how DP made me feel and reading forums and FB groups, people are just as desperate, just as in need now as they were then. I am looking at a long term commitment to improving the available information and creating some kind of actual support network for sufferers. 34 years I have had DP and I know I will never be free of it, I also know, I control it, not vice versa.

People have already committed to translating documents, treatment plans and app interfaces into modern Arabic. Looking at Syria alone you are looking at 120,000 dead and probably over 1M suffering some kind of DID/PTSD/DP/DR. This is just one area of the world. We in the West suffer from a lack of decent, empirical based evidential research and treatment, the need for relevant treatments for sufferers is not in any way decreasing. Nor is the need to understand the disorders. The more as a community DP/DR sufferers can do to help each other would I have thought be a good thing. Just because there is one great site does not mean there is no room for other sites dealing with the same problem but coming at it from different angles. All of us percieve problems and DP differently, thats why the more ways we look at the condition and the more readily that information is available, would I have thought be a good thing?

Cheers - S


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## seafoamneon (Jul 16, 2014)

I'll check it out ASAP!


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi Sea,

Its very eraly days yet, I have only just started the site and essentially the framwork is now there, I have a dedicated server its on, so it can handle a lot of traffic.

Its input, ideas, what would really help people. Thats what I am looking for. Also people willing eventually to help run some kind of support network. Using VOIP, it would be realtively easy to do and setup. Also txt chat, via an app, maybe site based and Skype.

Its using us, people who have suffererd, who know what its like and live with it. I think thats the key, but people are often averse to getting involved. Which is understandable on many levels 

Hope that eventually some of you do want to help or do find it useful!

http://www.depersonalisation.org/

Cheers - S


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## Guest (Aug 5, 2014)

I often think about the people in 3rd world, poor or war torn countries and wonder how they cope with the significant amounts of trauma some of them experience in their lives. I imagine there would be a high degree of dissociative disorders, ptsd, anxiety problems and depression. I mean, how do the children in particular cope with the atrocities they witness?

I think it's great of you to find a way that could possibly reach out and help those people suffering. It'd be interesting to understand more about countries like that too, and actually find out how they do cope with the problems poverty, famine, war etc can present. What ARE their coping methods? A lot of these 3rd world countries (some African countries spring to mind) would no doubt have a different way of perceiving 'mental illness' compared to the west. I'd be very interested to find out some more...

Great work to get your site up and running and good luck with it!


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Hia Zed,

I have ben chatting to someone from Syria and know others from various countries. They have EXACTLY the same issues we do, the problem is that with most of their infrastructure destroyed [Libya had one of the best healthcare systems anywhere prior to Gaddafi being killed] that they have virtually no support structure in place. NO way of dealing with trauma/ptsd/dp/dr or any of the other associated issues.

We think we have it bad and in terms of the Western world, DP sufferers etc are lagging way behind on many issues, they cannot even decide on cause/effect. But any support that can be put together to help them know the feelings they have are "normal" has to be a help. Rape is a major issue in those countries, imagine the DPDR caused by all the Traumas plus things like rape, both male and female, is hard to imagine. But, I think all of us suffering from DP, need to see far more research done, more hard evidence of causes. I never had any trigger, but got this age 14 and have had it every day since then. So it differs widely. Many of the theories put forward by Psychiatrists/Psychologists are simply not true, at least IMHO. They can't agree with each other over cause/effect etc so it really is [although it should not be] very early days for us and understanding DP.

Look at this for example:

http://www.strangerinthemirror.com/

*Dr Steinberg says it's all down to a traumatic event! *



> Quote" Whether you have survived abuse in the home, or a traumatic experiences such as rape, combat, random acts of violence, or extraordinary horrors such as the Holocaust or other wartime imprisonment, there are universal ways in which people dissociate in order to cope with severe trauma. Thanks to a series of significant scientific advances, we can now identity and treat the symptoms of dissociation as accurately as we can anxiety, depression, and other psychological problems."


*Now Read This:*
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200011/the-most-dangerous-book-you-may-already-be-reading



> Quote
> 
> Steinberg thinks this is what happened to many of her patients. She goes into detail about three in particular, including Nancy, who supposedly experienced abuse by her father, mother and grandfather. When discussing this abuse, she would abruptly switch personalities, from the mother of teenagers that her friends and family knew, to an anguished 8-year-old child. When in "child mode," Nancy would slip into grade-school speech, saying "skeered" and "veery," for example, as in, "I'm veery skeered."
> 
> ...


The above quote is from another psychologist who totally disagrees with Dr Steinberg. Yet both teach in Colleges.

As sufferers we have to wade through this and any Drs treating us have to do the same. Research is lagging so far behind, what is needed. Kings College in London did recent research, which concluded "more research is needed"

So, I think the need for us as sufferers, as a community to support each other is of paramount importance.

One of the few know treatments/med for relief of DP is/are benzodiazepines, [yes I know CBT/Relaxation, etc also hep] but in long term management of DP/DR, for sufferers, Benzos are a definite help in reducing for many the feeling of DP. Yet right now, Drs across the west are being told to stop prescribing them across the board. For many DP sufferers, this will have a major impact. If you can manage without them, great, but if you do need them in management of what is something so little understood, removing access to the one known quick relief agent is idiotic. More research and helping each other, putting pressure on the establishment to DO MORE. As a community, this is why we all need each other! One of the reasons, this site, the new site I am creating and others are I think so important!

Cheers - S


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2014)

I suppose it's not that surprising that people from different countries and cultures who've suffered significant trauma, react in same way huh? Humans do have this ability t dissociate like this. Though, the sad thing is a lot of these people are STILL suffering trauma on a daily basis. I guess sometimes dissociation actually helps in that situation, as a protection mechanism. But when their trauma is over, they'll need help for sure..

Personally I don't have a lot of faith in the medical community when it comes to their treatment of dissociative disorders. I don't go anywhere near the hospital or docs anymore, and I think reading that second article convinced me even more, I've made the right choice!. I tried but they just didn't understand enough about dissociative disorders to help me and in fact they made me worse than I was already, and I felt like I was teaching them most of the time, what it was like to live with a dissociative disorder! And that's not particularly helpful if you're having a crisis. I managed to get other, better types of supports in place.. and to tell the truth, I'm so much more stable since I got the help that works for me. I've had a dissociative 'condition' for a very long time as well.

Human nature got it right, giving us a way to protect our minds.. it just stuffed up the bit about how to turn it off! Philos:2014


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm not fond of the insistence of the condition being life long, or that the best someone can hope for is to cope and manage it well.

They both create an artificial barrier; it could very well be possible for a person to recover, but they may never make the move to do so if they are convinced that it can't be done.

I had terrible anxiety and depression for the longest, and all I was ever given were tools to help me cope with it and manage it. No one ever tried to tell me I could beat it some day, probably because they wanted to be realistic, and not make a promise that might never be kept.

All I ever learned was to control the anxiety and depression when they came up, I was effectively in the same situation I started in, it was just less awful.

After a while I was tiered of going around in the same circle, year after year, so I decided to fight my anxiety and depression. Of course, things had to get worse before they could improve. I was putting myself in a lot of unpleasant situations and started dealing with issues I would have rather ignored for the rest of my life.

It worked so well; I no longer qualify as having generalized anxiety or chronic depression, and I feel that half the reason I never tried to get rid of them is because I was told they were disorders, which made them feel out side of my control.

Point is; coping and managing bring stability, but people should always strive for something more. A comfortable rut is still a rut.

I'm at a point where I hardly notice DP/DR anymore and it very rarely bothers me, by most standards I should stop now, but I know my situation can still improve. DP/DR is what finally motivated me to fix my life, and I've come a long way as result.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2014)

^^ I really like what you said here Pyrite.

There are many people in this world who work on their dissociative conditions and reach a point where they reduce their dissociative experiences to 'normal' levels. Either people are going to believe that, or not. I'd encourage any disbelievers to talk to a therapist who's worked with patients with dissociative conditions - not just any therapist, but someone who actually has a solid working knowledge of how to break the cycle. We all know, the average doc or therapist has little knowledge of how to help and as a result they often do more harm than good and best to be avoided at all costs!

Why do we have to wear the badge of disordered for a perfectly natural ability? Being labelled like this, again, can do more harm than good. After all, if we're told we're disordered, sick, ill, even diseased (!) it wouldn't fill anyone with much confidence of recovery huh?

I threw out all those labels a while back and won't accept that garbage from anyone. I see my dissociative abilities as natural and organic.. sure, it's different to the typical experience, but then again, so was my upbringing and we ARE a product of our past are we not? I reacted in the only possible to save my sanity.

I don't experience much DP or DR anymore. With help, I've been able to turn off or 'reprogram' the reason to dissociate so much.


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi Guys,

I think you are misunderstanding where I am coming from and what I am saying.

I am most certainly NOT not depressed. I have lived a full and wonderful life for 25 years, despite having DP. Everyone talks about a cure, a cure of what? DP is intrinsic to US, its part of the fight/flight mechanism, its part of how we cope. As people we are obviously more susceptible to DP than other people.

I no longer have DP rule my life, I have run 2 companies, lectured to Games conventions, the military, worked with DARPA/ONR the USMC and others developing sims for them. I worked with psychologists developing Cognitive Behavioural Training.

My life has been spent after the initial 10 years travelling all over the world, working at a job I love [Designing Games]. I have lived in Australia, New York, now live in Ireland. I am happy with my life. I am at the point where I can look back, see wrong choices, things I did wrong, things I wish I could undo, but I have NO regrets. What's the point?



Pyrite said:


> I'm not fond of the insistence of the condition being life long, or that the best someone can hope for is to cope and manage it well.
> 
> They both create an artificial barrier; it could very well be possible for a person to recover, but they may never make the move to do so if they are convinced that it can't be done.
> 
> ...





Zed said:


> ^^ I really like what you said here Pyrite.
> 
> There are many people in this world who work on their dissociative conditions and reach a point where they reduce their dissociative experiences to 'normal' levels. Either people are going to believe that, or not. I'd encourage any disbelievers to talk to a therapist who's worked with patients with dissociative conditions - not just any therapist, but someone who actually has a solid working knowledge of how to break the cycle. We all know, the average doc or therapist has little knowledge of how to help and as a result they often do more harm than good and best to be avoided at all costs!
> 
> ...


I do know however that despite all this, despite having 2 wonderful sons, loving being a father, so much I love in life I love and enjoy, that I still have DP. 35 years now. I still get the feeling of disconnect, it will never leave me. NOT because I don't want it to, but because its a part of me, the way my psych copes with stress started being defined when I was very young and my first DP episode I remember was at 14.

What exactly is cured? If what I have described is not cured, what is? What IS normal? Whose perception of reality is right? Mine? Yours? someone without DP? All our realities are perceived differently. We have common ideas and patterns, but we all perceive the world in different unique ways. Everything is a label within our concious perception, how else could we communicate? A label or a disorder, does not define us, we define us, a word is just that, a word. We are who we have become, from past, genetics, choices and things intrinsic to us. But saying we don't have something, does not make that a reality. We still perceive and have episodes of DP, its simply a name for a type of reality or perceptual view unique to us!

What should I feel to be cured? What should I strive for?

Cheers - Sulla


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Also

Depression and anxiety are not DP. We all know DP, what it means.

I no longer suffer depression, but I still have DP. How or what do I need curing of? Define cured?

Sulla


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

People should always strive for the best out come, no matter how little of a chance there is, in this case that means recovery; no symptoms.

I don't want people to quit without ever taking a chance, and coming into DP/DR with a life time diagnosis is going to cause exactly that.

When I was going through the worst of DP/DR, recovery stories were far more comforting then being told I would have this forever, but that it gets tolerable.

They told me that if I made a commitment to improving my life, then someday I would recover. They were inspiring and gave people so much hope, those threads were always full of positive updates, and the next good thing people had planned to give themselves a good life.

Now, recovery stories are seen as fairy tails that inspire nothing but false hope, and yet I owe my vastly improved life to them. I'll spend the rest of my life chasing recovery because it means I'll being constantly improving.

But what if we improve our lives for nothing? An a bit of never getting your hopes up means never being disappointing.

I've gained so much more from seeking recovery then I would have if someone handed me a cure or I decided to quit now because things have become comfortable. The journey has been far more valuable then the prize at the end.

If some one told you to reach the horizon, and your circled the world in that effort; making dozens of friends, finding the love of your life and having extraordinary adventures. Would you come back to where you started feeling it was a waist of time because you never reached the horizon?

This is one of the greatest accomplishments of any religion, people are promised a wonderful afterlife if they make they act well and make the most of their current one. Some take this to heart and live wonderful lives as a result. I don't believe in the after life, but if the idea is doing so much good for them, why say other wise?

Of course, this is all very silly and unrealistic, but I feel that people are often to pragmatic for their own good.

So, I might never recover, but I will never regret the effort I put towards that goal.

To me, helping people to help themselves is more important then getting rid of their symptoms, because adversity like DP/DR is an amazing catalyst for changing a life for the better.


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## retep (Mar 19, 2013)

Sulla said:


> What exactly is cured? If what I have described is not cured, what is? What IS normal? Whose perception of reality is right? Mine? Yours? someone without DP? All our realities are perceived differently. We have common ideas and patterns, but we all perceive the world in different unique ways. Everything is a label within our concious perception, how else could we communicate? A label or a disorder, does not define us, we define us, a word is just that, a word. We are who we have become, from past, genetics, choices and things intrinsic to us. But saying we don't have something, does not make that a reality. We still perceive and have episodes of DP, its simply a name for a type of reality or perceptual view unique to us!
> 
> What should I feel to be cured? What should I strive for?


I think it's great that you have done so much while suffering with DP, that you want to help others and that you have come so far in your recovery. More power to you.

In response to your general question of being cured and what it means:
It's a fair question, but at the same time a somewhat loaded one. No one has a complete idea what another person is actually experiencing, and if you believe you are not "suffering" from DP than perhaps you are not a sufferer of DP any longer. But if you believe you still do suffer from it, than of course you can recover more.

Does anyone think they will ever get better at all in the beginning, much less fully recover? Usually not. Yet people do. I know it can be especially hard to believe that full recovery is possible the longer it's been a part of one's life, but that does not mean it cannot happen. People change and improve with wisdom- if DP is just a perspective or perception that it can be changed. You are not a perspective you have perspective which can change. A disorder or illness may inform a person while suffering from it, consequently if that person no longer has the disorder they are no longer informed by it. It was never them to begin with.

Would a person who has recovered from depression expect never to be sad again? No! Sadness is part of the experience of life, but that does not mean they are dealing with depression still.

The same goes with DP. Feeling disconnected is measured in degrees, not in absolutes. If someone feels disconnected, does that mean they are disassociated? Of course not! Disassociation is a condition where a person has disconnected to a large part of themselves where their whole sense of being is deregulated and the neurotic symptoms and outlooks try to make sense of what is happening inside and outside of them.

Disconnecting under stress is not by itself DP or disassociation, but I could understand that if someone has experienced DP, there could be a strong association and recall; just as someone who has experienced depression might associate sadness with their past depression. But ultimately, they are different.

So a person who is cured of DP may experience a sense of disconnection to varying degrees here and there just like anyone else, but if they feel disconnected from their life experience, others and/or themselves than they need to resolve more of a sense of connection.

And since you mentioned ptsd and it's similarity to Dpd, and I agree they are extraordinarily similar- the first one tends to deal more with shock trauma and the second more with developmental trauma; there have been many reported cases of people fully and entirely (as in- no remaining symptoms) recovered from it, just as there have been from DP.

But like I said, I do not have all the information, but I thought I would respond with what I know.


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Pyrite said:


> People should always strive for the best out come, no matter how little of a chance there is, in this case that means recovery; no symptoms.
> 
> I don't want people to quit without ever taking a chance, and coming into DP/DR with a life time diagnosis is going to cause exactly that.
> 
> ...





retep said:


> I think it's great that you have done so much while suffering with DP, that you want to help others and that you have come so far in your recovery. More power to you.
> 
> In response to your general question of being cured and what it means:
> It's a fair question, but at the same time a somewhat loaded one. No one has a complete idea what another person is actually experiencing, and if you believe you are not "suffering" from DP than perhaps you are not a sufferer of DP any longer. But if you believe you still do suffer from it, than of course you can recover more.
> ...


I so agree with everything you both said essentially!

I am not saying we cannot improve and strive to improve, I know its possible and want to help as many as possible!

What I am saying is DP is just a name for something, like blond hair or brown eyes. Cure is semantics in the end! Its the result that counts. I just think cure is the wrong use of the word and overly simplistic! 

Sulla


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## retep (Mar 19, 2013)

Nitpicking over the word "cure"? That's silly.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2014)

I agree with Retep.. It's amazing you've done so much whilst DP'd Sulla.. Kudos to you!

The concept of 'perception and how we perceive the world' blows my mind lol. I've read a bit about this in my life and have come to the conclusion, there's so many variations and thoughts about 'perception'.. It's all too confusing and totally irrelevant to my wellbeing. It's a bit like talking about the concept of 'time'. I have my views on how I see it, it makes sense to me, so I leave the deep theorising to others!! They can tell their friends who might be interested.. but I'll stay away from that discussion, thanks. 

I see what you mean about the term 'cured'. I struggle with the words 'recovery' and 'healed' too.. I mostly look at this as 'how I feel' in the here and now. About how I actually 'feel' about different things. If I don't feel ok, I work on it to understand what it is about it that makes me feel this way, or if I can I just avoid whatever it is and move on..

Yes I agree DP is just a name.. and this has been talked about here quite a lot over the years.. The way I see it now is, sometimes the label can be useful (accessing support from the medical community for instance) and sometimes the label can be detrimental to how people feel, ie being labeled with a mental illness can hit peoples self esteem pretty hard. I guess for me now I try and use the term (or not) in a way I see as most appropriate.

I try not to use the word normal either.. I much prefer to use the term 'typical'. As far as I can see, there is no normal, only typical when it comes to human behaviour.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Sulla said:


> I so agree with everything you both said essentially!
> 
> I am not saying we cannot improve and strive to improve, I know its possible and want to help as many as possible!
> 
> ...


Which is why most people go with recovery.

Cure implies someones handing out healing elixirs or something.


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

@ Zed,

I think DP itself, gives us an edge, a kind of look at the world others don't have.

You often hear DPers talking about metaphysics and perception. I came across a theory a little while ago, that compared us to computers, OK highly evolved etc lol. We are a sum of memories, ideas, perceptions, information, hugely complex patterns of thoughts that give us who we are. Essentially we wake up every morning and "reboot" into who we are, as the sum of those things kicks in gives us a framework to live within, reality perception etc, but every morning we alter very slightly as we will have more memories, information and ideas than before.

I think Robert Lanza and Biocentrism are very close to the mark! Perception is everything and really for us, DP changes that, it gives us an altered state of perception, reality. Once we get over how scary that is, that we are not going insane or going to die etc, we see things quite differently from non DPers.

I am not saying, my life has been perfect or I don't get stressed or depressed. I do, quite regularly, but I no longer let it rule me or let DP worry me. I know I have it, I can almost shift in and out of DP at will at this point. Its so much a part of who I am. BUT, I don't fight it or let it make me anxious or panic, I accept it, I have it, yes I feel the disconnect, but it no longer has the power to scare me, I KNOW IT! I know some only have DP as a result of trauma or panic, smoking blow etc, but mine was not like that, I had an idyllic childhood, no trauma, but developed DP at 14. DP itself was my major cause of illness and they were a truly awful 10+ years. But once you do learn to live with DP, to accept what you cannot change, realise its part of you, its no longer scary. My main problem was I had to figure all that out myself. I knew I was diagnosed with severe DP, but was told it was a symptom. THAT made it so much harder.

That's why I think cure is a misnomer in terms of DP. It does imply some magic moment of epiphany when DP suddenly goes and you are "cured" and "normal" Man so many "normal" people out there I think are way out there. Normal and cured are perceptual to each of us. We in real terms are often far more "normal" than other people, at least many people I have come across lol! Normal itself is a very subjective idea, so everyone of us again has variations on what we consider normal, within the framework of society. I will stick with living, accepting DP, if I can live a decent and fulfilling life without DP, Depression or anxiety defining me. Stress is natural to al of us, to every human being, having DP, just gives us a different slant on it! We cope differently, but we DO COPE.

Since I accepted what I have, I have never in terms of DP, or DP/Depression/Anxiety/Panic had a severe attack, simply because I accept feeling DP as part of me, who I am. Its not scary or anything else, just a small perceptual shift [ok sometimes big perceptual shift] but its no longer scary, I am not going mad, I don't obsess or let it control me. Its just part of me.

OCD for me, was so massively scary, so were the random thoughts, all the other classic DP stuff, it used to terrify me. Panic so bad I could hear my heart beating not internally, externally, god so awful. Suicide attempts, self harm, my arm looks like a bit of modern art. But, I did get over it, once I accepted it. Once I STOPPED being scared of it. I read a huge amount, way back when, I used to read so much on religion, metaphysics, Vedanta, meditation, philosophy. Eventually I worked out that fighting it was causing me to lose the battle! Kind of a classic Sun Tzu moment lol! But its so true, when you stop fighting it, when you accept what you cannot change, it starts to lose that power over you, you flow with it, accept it and DP itself decreases, or the instances and fear/anxiety/panic it engenders goes away and leaves you as a person, able to function, but took me so long to find that out! I suppose that's the real moment when I started to live again. It was not instant but it was steady and I have been living with it, accepting it and enjoying my life for 25 years now. I know I an old right lol! Life is so rich and for me, once the fear left, once all that was gone, I still have DP, I still feel it, know it, but its just one aspect of me, my perceptions of the world. Life can be so utterly amazing! I think for me being a decent, caring, moral ethical human being is the MOST important part of me! That's why I fight for human rights, am anti Tory, anti bigots and have always been so active in terms of social justice!

Wow, hope that makes sense lol 

Shaun


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

> I try not to use the word normal either.. I much prefer to use the term 'typical'. As far as I can see, there is no normal, only typical when it comes to human behaviour.


That's so true and a good way of looking at it lol 

I think DP gives people a much more perceptive and empathic view on people and the world!

S


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

Also,

There is a plus side 


People with DP, tend to have a higher IQ than average.
They are more empathic
We have variations and perceptions others never have
A significantly higher pain threshold
Look at the world and question things and metaphysics much more than average.

Probably more I can't think of right now, so its not all totaly negative lol 

Cheers - S


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2014)

Sulla said:


> Also,
> 
> There is a plus side
> 
> ...


One to add to the list:

Dissociative people are often very creative as well.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2014)

Sulla said:


> @ Zed,
> 
> I think DP itself, gives us an edge, a kind of look at the world others don't have.
> 
> You often hear DPers talking about metaphysics and perception. I came across a theory a little while ago, that compared us to computers, OK highly evolved etc lol. We are a sum of memories, ideas, perceptions, information, hugely complex patterns of thoughts that give us who we are. Essentially we wake up every morning and "reboot" into who we are, as the sum of those things kicks in gives us a framework to live within, reality perception etc, but every morning we alter very slightly as we will have more memories, information and ideas than before.


Countless times I've talked about my computer brain. To me that concept is a lot about the ability to retain huge amounts of information in fine detail and then be able to access the memory as required. This attribute came in very handy for my career in the aviation industry, particularly doing the exams. Conceptualising our brains as a computer is a very common trait of autistic people too from what I understand.

I think one thing which really blew me away when I first discovered what was going for me was, I honestly thought that everybody was like this. When I was 46 (51 now) I started getting memories of a horror childhood and not long after that I became extremely dissociative, (obviously in an desperate attempt to ease the pain of what I was remembering). That was the first time I'd ever sought any therapy in my entire life (at 46).. It was only when I started talking, I became aware of how totally different my way of being was to that of the average person. As I progressed in therapy a DID 'system' unfolded. It was absolutely fascinating (and a bit scary too at first). I don't know how many times I said to my T, I thought everyone was like this. haha. I still do sometimes, and I joke about it too, in a nice way of course. Sometimes I comment on how boring it must be to have only one person inside your body! Like, who do you talk to??  I must admit, I really do find it such an odd concept that people have only one person inside. So.. yeah. What's normal? hahaha I know I am.. I'm just sure about everybody else though&#8230;

Anyway.. That's the main reason why I struggle talking about perception. I have many different parts/alters, each with their own perception of the world and it gets a little too confusing if I try and single out one at a time. Make sense?


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2014)

Sulla said:


> I think Robert Lanza and Biocentrism are very close to the mark! Perception is everything and really for us, DP changes that, it gives us an altered state of perception, reality. Once we get over how scary that is, that we are not going insane or going to die etc, we see things quite differently from non DPers.
> 
> I am not saying, my life has been perfect or I don't get stressed or depressed. I do, quite regularly, but I no longer let it rule me or let DP worry me. I know I have it, I can almost shift in and out of DP at will at this point. Its so much a part of who I am. BUT, I don't fight it or let it make me anxious or panic, I accept it, I have it, yes I feel the disconnect, but it no longer has the power to scare me, I KNOW IT! I know some only have DP as a result of trauma or panic, smoking blow etc, but mine was not like that, I had an idyllic childhood, no trauma, but developed DP at 14. DP itself was my major cause of illness and they were a truly awful 10+ years. But once you do learn to live with DP, to accept what you cannot change, realise its part of you, its no longer scary. My main problem was I had to figure all that out myself. I knew I was diagnosed with severe DP, but was told it was a symptom. THAT made it so much harder.
> 
> ...


That's really interesting the way you see DP.. To me that's a healthy way of looking at it, and I'm kind of not surprised having an attitude like this has made the journey of living with DP so much easier for you. And I agree once we get over the fact that we do have a different perspective on life.. it does make a lot of things much easier to understand why we might react in certain ways in different situations. I think just understanding the dissociated mind and how that can affect the way we think and feel and also how our memories are stored goes a long way in easing the confusion and stress.

One thing about coping with stressors in life.. And this is only my take on this and I guess I'm coming from the trauma side of things here.... The way the dissociated mind usually copes with stress (by detaching from feelings and emotions and even our bodies) isn't ideal to me. I'd much rather not dissociate like this, personally I'd much rather 'feel' my way through life instead of dissociating. This is something I've worked at a lot in therapy with much success. It allows me to deal with problems and issues as they arise, instead of dissociating the experience and 'boxing' it up and 'forgetting' about it. Make sense? To give an example.. If I'm angry about something, I'd much rather be able to express that anger (in a healthy way) than to suppress it and let it boil away inside of me until I go back (sometimes years later) and release it. Learning to express emotions has been a huge step forward for me, particularly expressing the more difficult emotions. This inability to express how I felt is learned from childhood. I was never allowed back then, and that's part of the reason I became dissociated in the first place. I believe a healthy human being should have the right and the ability to express their thoughts AND feelings.

Anyway&#8230; you know what they say... 'There're many tracks that lead to the top of the mountain.' And we're each going to find the one that suits us best in the end hey?

Cheers mate.


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## Sulla (Jul 4, 2014)

@ Zed.

I still fell and love, get angry, all the above. Its just that I live through my DP, to the point where DP and non DP are kind of merged. If I try I can bring on DP at will. The main point for me is I suppose that I control it now, not the other way around. Man used to be so tough!

I never had trauma, had great childhood, grew up in rural Suffolk, great family, just got DP aged 14, no stress, no reason, just happened. So for me in some ways the journey may have been easier, in others harder [no reason, often seems to make things worse somehow] but not knowing what I had was the worst part.

You are so right about the many routes to the top of the mountain! Its a view that's very worthwhile  that journey though .....

I hate the fact so many new/young people are suffering what we went through, seems SO unfair somehow!

Shaun


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## chelsy010 (Oct 29, 2012)

Very cool, with this new site. I think the painting on the site, totally depicts how I felt when I first got dp 24/7.


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