# Sleep studdy



## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

Just had a sleep study done last night and some very interesting reults came form it. my sleep was VERY VERY fragmented and I had no REM sleep. The neurologists that performed my study thought it was very odd because although that have seen fragmented sleep they had never seen it to such an extent and also having NO REM is very strange as well and useally only seen in the very elderly.

Has anyone els had a sleep study here and did it have similar results?

There might actually be a link here and for anyone that has not had one done I highly recomend it.


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## theoneandonly (Nov 17, 2010)

did the neurologist know anything about DP/DR?


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> Just had a sleep study done last night and some very interesting reults came form it. my sleep was VERY VERY fragmented and I had no REM sleep. The neurologists that performed my study thought it was very odd because although that have seen fragmented sleep they had never seen it to such an extent and also having NO REM is very strange as well and useally only seen in the very elderly.
> 
> Has anyone els had a sleep study here and did it have similar results?
> 
> There might actually be a link here and for anyone that has not had one done I highly recomend it.


Had one. Had slightly less REM, but had REM rebound before wakefulness.
Know someone else who had a sleep study, has also cronic DP/DR. She came with aboundant REM, MSLT came with one SOREM, one more and she'd be diagnosed with narcolepsy.

I think your REM absence should be taken in the context of an abnormal brain activity rather than the absence itself. Unless you had a MSLT which has shown the loss of REM rebounded or had a fEEG which showed SOREMs into wakefulness.

I'd be intriged if anyone be placed on Xyrem and see if DP improves.


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

ohwell said:


> Had one. Had slightly less REM, but had REM rebound before wakefulness.
> Know someone else who had a sleep study, has also cronic DP/DR. She came with aboundant REM, MSLT came with one SOREM, one more and she'd be diagnosed with narcolepsy.
> 
> I think your REM absence should be taken in the context of an abnormal brain activity rather than the absence itself. Unless you had a MSLT which has shown the loss of REM rebounded or had a fEEG which showed SOREMs into wakefulness.
> ...


very interesting thanks for sharing, this should definetly be looked into more.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

No that sounds interesting though. Whenever I sleep I feel like I never fall fully 100% asleep and never wake up feeling refreshed and rejuvenated like I use to before DP/DR. Is there anything you can do to promote more REM?


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> No that sounds interesting though. Whenever I sleep I feel like I never fall fully 100% asleep and never wake up feeling refreshed and rejuvenated like I use to before DP/DR. Is there anything you can do to promote more REM?


yea same here, I kind of have this theory going on that perhaps from such fragmented sleep with no rem that the body puts it self in a semi sleep/rem state while awake thus the feeling of DP/DR. the only drug I know of that can actually promote REM sleep is GHB. It's very hard to get ahold of though. interestingly ambien and the other sleep aids that are similar actually hurt rem sleep.


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

another thing to study in this disorder is if orexins are involved.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> yea same here, I kind of have this theory going on that perhaps from such fragmented sleep with no rem that the body puts it self in a semi sleep/rem state while awake thus the feeling of DP/DR. the only drug I know of that can actually promote REM sleep is GHB. It's very hard to get ahold of though. interestingly ambien and the other sleep aids that are similar actually hurt rem sleep.


Gabapentin increases REM and SWS

Here is a list of anti-seizure medications and their effect on sleep: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/sleep_aeds


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

Visual Dude said:


> Gabapentin increases REM and SWS
> 
> Here is a list of anti-seizure medications and their effect on sleep: http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/sleep_aeds


cool thanks, hey visual dude have you noticed anything different with your sleep since getting DP/DR? and does the Gabapentin make a difference?


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> cool thanks, hey visual dude have you noticed anything different with your sleep since getting DP/DR? and does the Gabapentin make a difference?


Until DR I always slept very well and had a problem of not being able to stay awake late if I wanted to - it was impossible (fall asleep sitting). I'd try a couple triple espressos and it made no difference. Even excersize and run around - but within minutes of stopping, I'd start falling asleep.

Once DR started, alternated between way too much sleeping and bouts of insomnia. It's a little better now but still a problem.

When starting Gabapentin, dreams greatly increased - usually vivid and somewhat startling. Over time this went away until I cut the dose down. If I stop all together, there is fitful anxiety and inability to sleep - but the anxiety is only at night.

Once I started using Sinemet, I can sleep (unless in an insomnia phase) or stay awake at will.


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

Visual Dude said:


> Until DR I always slept very well and had a problem of not being able to stay awake late if I wanted to - it was impossible (fall asleep sitting). I'd try a couple triple espressos and it made no difference. Even excersize and run around - but within minutes of stopping, I'd start falling asleep.
> 
> Once DR started, alternated between way too much sleeping and bouts of insomnia. It's a little better now but still a problem.
> 
> ...


Yea I'm the same I constantly am flucuating between long periods of sleep and periods of insomnia it's imposible to keep a steady scdule because I have almost no recolection of time.

Tell me when you got your DR but before you started the gabapetin did you have dreams when you slept? And how would you say your better sleep with more dreams has aided in your recovery?


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> Yea I'm the same I constantly am flucuating between long periods of sleep and periods of insomnia it's imposible to keep a steady scdule because I have almost no recolection of time.
> 
> Tell me when you got your DR but before you started the gabapetin did you have dreams when you slept? And how would you say your better sleep with more dreams has aided in your recovery?


*Yea I'm the same I constantly am flucuating between long periods of sleep and periods of insomnia it's imposible to keep a steady scdule because I have almost no recolection of time.*

I usually have a good concept of time - often can tell you the time within 10 minutes without a watch. But as soon as fatigue sets in, the game is up.

*Tell me when you got your DR but before you started the gabapetin did you have dreams when you slept?*

Yes

*And how would you say your better sleep with more dreams has aided in your recovery?*

Sleep has not had any correlation with DR symptoms. Just in the sense of general wellness.

As a rule, I sense something important inside after dreams - even if intense vividness has left an exhausting feeling. But this is a very subjective statement and probably has more to do with DP and depression than DR.


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## sonnl (Apr 15, 2009)

Isnt REM what causes dreams? Thats what ive always heard alteast, so do you guys not dream? Also science guy, by GHB do you mean gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, and benzodiazepines(date rape drug)?


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

sonnl said:


> Isnt REM what causes dreams? Thats what ive always heard alteast, so do you guys not dream? Also science guy, by GHB do you mean gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, and benzodiazepines(date rape drug)?


Yes the REM sleep state is where you have dreams. I very rarely dream, my sleep study said I have no REM although I feel I have rebounded REM a couple days out of the week, most nights I will not dream but 1 or 2 days out of the week I will just a little. Yes GHB is gamma hydroxybutyric acid but it is not a benzo. It's the only thing I know of to help you get all 4 stages of sleep including REM. it has proven to be better at inducing a more "natural sleep" then any benzo or "nonbenzo" such as ambien. however it is also a date rape drug and as such is highly regulated as to who doctors prescribe it too.


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> Yes the REM sleep state is where you have dreams. I very rarely dream, my sleep study said I have no REM although I feel I have rebounded REM a couple days out of the week, most nights I will not dream but 1 or 2 days out of the week I will just a little. Yes GHB is gamma hydroxybutyric acid but it is not a benzo. It's the only thing I know of to help you get all 4 stages of sleep including REM. it has proven to be better at inducing a more "natural sleep" then any benzo or "nonbenzo" such as ambien. however it is also a date rape drug and as such is highly regulated as to who doctors prescribe it too.


It goes by the brand name of Xyrem and under prescription for narcolepsy, but it is also prescribed off label for fragmented sleep. If you want to try, pretty easy to synthesize it, just don't get caught.


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## sonnl (Apr 15, 2009)

yeah i can get it, but i do have rem sleep, because i dream every night.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

sonnl said:


> Isnt REM what causes dreams? Thats what ive always heard alteast, so do you guys not dream? Also science guy, by GHB do you mean gamma-hydroxybutyric acid, and benzodiazepines(date rape drug)?


I thing that Rapid Eye Movement (REM) is the actual state of dreaming - why your eyes are moving. I watch my dog do it all the time - her eyes move, nose and legs twitch, makes sounds just like if she was digging down a rodent hole (assume she is dreaming something like that).


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## sino (Aug 24, 2009)

So what exactly was your sleep test? Like an EEG?


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## Deleted Account (Jul 26, 2010)

I had a sleep study done as well and I was told I too have fragmented sleep and no REM. I never fully get a good nights rest.


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## foghat (Jan 1, 2011)

I started taking Melatonin a few weeks back and that really helps. It really regulates the sleep cycles and I dream quite a bit now. I'd recommend the 1mg


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## Sleepwalker (Dec 4, 2008)

scienceguy said:


> Yes the REM sleep state is where you have dreams. I very rarely dream, my sleep study said I have no REM....


I know that your sleep test showed your lack of REM stage sleep. 
I, too, hardly ever remember dreaming and my sleep is as refreshing as drinking salt water for a terrible thirst.








I read somewhere that one's not being able to remember dreaming is not necessarily that one doesn't dream: that dreams are remembered when a person awakens during the dream-then the images of that dream go into the (conscious) memory.
When I say 'awaken' I don't necessarily mean to full awareness to the point of knowing you have awaken.
You guys would know more than I do about these tests. Do they reveal most everything a doctor would want to find out about your sleep quality or is there one for a specific type of sleeping problem and one for another type?
We have only one sleep clinic here and I am contemplating whether to spend 2 months salary for the test--all for nothing because it was not broad enough.
I would just like to know enough to determine whether it's worth my while.
Thanks


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Sleepwalker said:


> I know that your sleep test showed your lack of REM stage sleep.
> I, too, hardly ever remember dreaming and my sleep is as refreshing as drinking salt water for a terrible thirst.
> 
> 
> ...


You mention not feeling refreshed after sleeping - do you have trouble sleeping as well?

Are you currently taking any medications?

Have you tried Temazepam? (It is an inexpensive benzodiazepine for sleep)

Two months salary is a lot to spend if you can first try some other things.


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

Sleepwalker said:


> I know that your sleep test showed your lack of REM stage sleep.
> I, too, hardly ever remember dreaming and my sleep is as refreshing as drinking salt water for a terrible thirst.
> 
> 
> ...


I would go against being tested if that means 2 months of salary, unless your financiary situation is good. Because knowing it won't make your DP vanish, let alone the initiation of an appopriate treatment. It would only be investigation and give you a better understanding.


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## yesyes (Oct 19, 2008)

did the sleep study... nothing abnormal,,, super mild apnea, spend most of the time dreaming and apparently i moved my legs 700 times in one night... odd, uh?


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## adamadimos (Mar 11, 2011)

Sleep is a very important process, when it comes to our continued health. This is a natural recovery period, allowing the body to rest, proper regeneration itself, so that it can continue to function properly. There are many different physical benefits of sleep. It also keep us fresh and happy at every next day.


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## Sleepwalker (Dec 4, 2008)

Visual Dude said:


> You mention not feeling refreshed after sleeping - do you have trouble sleeping as well?
> 
> Are you currently taking any medications?
> 
> ...


Thanks for asking.
Were it not for clonazepam, muscle relaxant and/or melatonin, falling asleep at regular hours at night would be impossible.

Clonazepam takes the edge off Dp and anxiety if I had a very bad night's sleep.
Most nights, now, I sleep right though; but I don' feel very refreshed; but with some some help-like b-12, I can hold down a job; just barely, though.
I can fall asleep at 5-6 a.m. naturally (I think; I have done it before) if I get into the routine. I haven't had that routine for years since doing shift work.

Enter depression into the mix and it complicates things.

One thing I do notice is that I hold my breath pretty often and then realize it. Also, it seems that I don't dream a lot 'cause I do not remember dreaming when I awaken. Then there is daytime sleepiness until I can get a snooze sometime during the day. These are what led me to think that I should investigate Sleep Apnea.

Not familiar with temazepam; how does it differ from clonazepam?

I should mention that I am on lamotrigine-100mg X 2 daily.


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## Nicole_22 (Sep 25, 2010)

this is all really weird to me because i often have dreams... and when i do dream, i wake up straight away.. feeling EVEN MORE deeper into my DP/DR, i literally feel like i am in the dream, it felt more real in the dream than reality. waking up is a nightmare in the mornings. (excuse the pun)


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