# Anyone tried salvia?



## jlr19 (Dec 4, 2006)

I want to try salvia with my friends before I go home for the summer, but I wanted some others' opinions first. I smoke herb, and it makes my DP stronger in some ways, but more bearable (for the most part, and I know how to prevent it from going bad). It's hard to explain. Anyway, if any of you have ever tried salvia, leaf or extract, could you tell me how it was? I'm probably going to smoke just the leaf for starters, not overload myself. Any input?


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

Salvia will F you up mang. Don't do it, especially if you have mental problems. Stick to the herb mang. Hallucinogens arent for people with unstable minds.


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

Cartoon Land Nightmare
Salvia divinorum
by London

DOSE : 2 hits smoked Salvia divinorum (leaves)

BODY WEIGHT : 9 kg

I have tried Salvia twice - first time was positive, second negative. I am not a lover of hallucinogenics generally but was attracted to Salvia as our research had showed trips generally last under 15 minutes.

My first experience of smoking Salvia was while on holidays in Amsterdam; at the time I was very relaxed and very stoned. I took one very small hit from our pipe, as did my boyfriend at the time, and as we were stoned and a bit tired anyway we both fell asleep in our private hostel room. That particular experience was mild, I simply lay with my eyes closed, and got the sensation that all the knowledge I had accumulated so far in life lined the inside of my skull very thinly. I remember thinking just how much space was in my head to fill with knowledge, and that I may never fill it completely no matter how much I learnt about anything. Waking about an hour later I felt uplifted at this new thought, and have since made sure I learn in each and every thing I do and experience. This first Salvia trip was, as I say, mild, and pleasant. To heavy-duty trippers this would have been a non-trip, but to me, generally just a smoker, this was an uplifting and intriguing experience.

My second was a different matter altogether. Once home from the Netherlands I tried Salvia 'properly'. Said boyfriend was there and promised to be my sober sitter. I was in his room at the time and had had a joint or two that afternoon but was not stoned.

I took one hit. The smoke was easy and I thought it actually tasted quite nice. Waited 2-3 mins. Only slightly heightened visual perception. (This stayed long after the trip itself - a slight shimmering of colours, no more.)

Second hit: instantly a hot/cold feeling enveloping my skin, fever-ish, and I removed my jumper. This removed the skin sensation mostly. This was maybe 30 seconds in and this was when my sight went. I was sitting on his bed, his quilt was a flower pattern, (!) and when I heard his voice ask 'where are you?' I answered 'the garden' although I wasn't sure that I was actually in the garden, but knew I saw flowers.

Although to my knowledge I hadn't said any more, save a brief description of flat colours in the room, I must have looked happy or blissed out as boyfriend then announced 'this looks good, I might do some too.' (or something to that effect) THIS WAS WHEN IT ALL TURNED NEGATIVE.

I cannot stress to you enough how important it is to have a sitter you can trust. I thought I could trust him (we had been together a year) to be my sitter and yet he was voicing inclinations to join me. This unfortunately was enough to panic me so badly my trip immediately got worse. I remember asking him not to, and after what seemed like 10 seconds he relented and said ok, he wouldnt, but unfortunately it was too late for me. (I later found out that those ten seconds were, in reality, almost 10 minutes of me sitting on his bed, pleading over and over with him not to do it, with tears rolling down my face. I had no idea I had done this.) I am not blaming this boy directly for what was to come but am positive my trip would not have been as bad were he not to have shaken things up while I was up.

Everything in the room lacked texture, which is contrary to some reports I've read about this drug. All colour become flat - no shadows, no texture - flat painting it's called in art - like cartoons are drawn. Two of the walls started to dominate and i was suddenly in a cartoon world where I stood in the middle of a long corridor, only the floor on which I 'stood' was no more than a line, and the walls were so close together I realised I too must be 2D in order to survive between what seemed like 1mm between the 'walls'. I became claustraphobic and panicky when I realised I didn't know where I was and couldnt get out and tried to verbalise this to bf. This was when I realised my hearing had also gone, as I could not hear anything in return, and with the realisation that two of my senses had left me I panicked. Boyfriend must have come within my visual field but was denoted in my mind as that evil laughing cartoon character with the glossy hair and big red buttons on his coat. At no stage during this did I remember I had taken Salvia. Apparently he was trying to remind me but I couldnt hear him.

After about 15 minutes, when I could just make out the door to his room as being a door and not a cartoon door, I felt a strong compulsion to move around. I was led (by him) through the house as he tried to calm me by pointing out 'the fridge, the tv, the table, see it's there, it's ok...' but as soon as things became clearer to the eye they would slip back into cartoon world and I would stand stock still in horror or look away in horror. I distinctly remember the kitchen cupboards varying between real cupboards and cartoon cupboards, and each time they became the latter I had to look away.

Superficially the effects lasted about 20 (real) mins. I was able to sleep that night, though fitfully. On a deeper level the effects of that trip have lasted much longer. I have not taken Salvia since. After it I was in a state of deep shock for two days and extremely scared for about a week afterward that at any moment I could slip back into the cartoon hell. I cannot tell you how incredibly scarey a cartoon world can be when you don't know how to leave.

I've gone into a lot of detail here which may not interest experienced trippers, but I'm writing this from the point of view of a relatively inexperienced tripper, for people like me who havent taken many trips but who are interested in trying Salvia. This is a substance in a league of it's own.

IF YOU DO THIS SUBSTANCE:

1. research it. read ALL the accounts on this site and others. i did not research it enough and had to face the consequences.

2. HAVE A TRUSTWORTHY SITTER. I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. IT CAN BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GOOD AND A BAD EXPERIENCE. in some cases it can also be the difference between life and death.

3. anyone with any history of anxiety, claustraphobia or mental instability should think very hard about taking Salvia. i have the first two and after doing it had the third for quite a while.

4. if you're of a sensitive disposition just don't.

Wishing you all pleasant Salvia experiences. Really wishing. Peace.

Exp Year: 2000	ID: 25176
Added: Jul 12, 2003	Views: 18798

Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid.
Erowid Experience Vault ? 1996-2004 Erowid


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## jlr19 (Dec 4, 2006)

I think I'll be alright, because I really trust these two people, and my DP is fairly weak (compared to some accounts I've heard here), and I never have anxiety about it. Ok, once, but I'll avoid doing what I did then, and I'm very into trying new things. I kind of want to explore my DP a little, if that sounds stupid. I'm really excited about this and I have researched it alot, but I will read some more personal accounts on it on your advice. Thanks for your input. Anyone else have anything to add?


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## closetome (Nov 16, 2006)

I don't think it's worth it. I was in a bus stop and a guy said to me" Weed an alcohol, that's all you need man" and I think it was a very wise thing to say because when you get older it's so easy to start experiementing with other drugs. Sounds pretty powerful. If you do do it don't do too much.


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

My blunt input is that you are a buffoon. I have absolutely no compassion for a person who suffers from some type of mental problem and is stupid enough to consider trying a drug like salvia.

All I can say is you will get what's coming to you. Just please don't come back here to whine after you blow a fuse in your mind and want so desperately to regain normalcy.

Tough love, mate. But there is no other way to approach something like this.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I tried it once in a very weak dose and I thought I could hear birds and seaguls for about 20 minutes, then I realised that I was indoors and it was the middle of the night

I would be very careful if I were you, I have heard seasoned drug veterans says it was too powerful for them to deal with and some say it is the most intense difficult drug to take, especially not recommended for people with mental health issues.

Check out this for info: http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml

"It is the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen thus far isolated..... it should be made clear that the effects are often extremely unnerving and there is a very real potential for physical danger with its use. ..... Many people consider the effects less manageable and harder to work with than other entheogens. The majority of people who have had a full blown experience with salvinorin A are reluctant to ever do it again."


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Personally I think you would have to be mad. I'm scared to drink alcohol for fear of making myself worse.

The very fact that you're even thinking about this baffles me, truly it does.

Be careful, please.


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## Coming?Back2Life (Oct 20, 2006)

indeed don`t do it man, i went to amsterdam i had been taking drugs for years and had the most terrifying experience on the hawaiin mushrooms in tea form i took WAY too much of it overdosed for sure and was being sick dry wretching hallucinating actually hearing auditory voices it was so mad they were so ridiculously clear and terrible paranoia i wonder if that fucked me up in the first place to be honest with you cos it was a year after that i became ill.


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## flipwilson (Aug 19, 2006)

To reiterate most everyone already DONT DO IT!...Even if you enjoy the experience that doesnt necessarily mean your brain percieved it as such. And if that happens your dp will increase as it is the bodies way of defending itself. Dp in my opinion is nothing to explore further, its a natural state that should go away if you dont [email protected]#$% with yourself any further.

Have you ever heard of permatrips? I know vietnam vets whos friends are still tripping balls from taking some sort of hallucinogen...i dont think anyone no matter how experienced at taking drugs can plan for that bs.


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

Addendum:

JLR: The really tricky thing with salvia is that its potency varies widely. If someone has a plant and simply dries the leaves, which you smoke, you'll most likely experience none of the true effects of the drug. You'll probably get get lightheaded and placebo-effect your way into feeling "high." From there, you'll wonder what the fuss is all about.

Then, if you get your hands on highly purified or crystallized salvia afterward, unbeknownst to you, you'll huff it just like you did those dried leaves. And the powerful effects of salvia will then hit you like a brick, and you'll be f*cked. Utterly f*cked.

Most people who have "done" salvia have never truly experienced it. I was one of those people. Young and stupid. Smoked some leaves. Then I came in contact with the real deal, and I wasn't right for - literally - months. I still, more than 10 years later, cannot shake what happened to me. It still scares me.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

siouxsie said:


> The very fact that you're even thinking about this baffles me, truly it does.
> 
> Be careful, please.


Truly, truly, truly, baffles me too.

I've always known to stay far, far, far, far, far away from the gnarly mind altering substances because I don't need any help in the "tripping balls" department.

I never cared one ounce that my friends would pester me to do e, shrooms, acid (the _thought_ makes me shiver)...NOT WORTH IT. It was just abosolutely not even a consideration for me. Pot didn't used to bother me. When it got to the point it did, I stopped.

Man...you'll do what you want to do...BUT IS IT WORTH IT? I just can't imagine any high being worth losing your noggin' over.


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## Universal (May 30, 2005)

I was aware of falling, in through my own mouth, and down a tunnel, fast. I was aware that the tunnel was bottomless. Looking up, the walls of the tunnel were made up of my own face, repeated infinite times, each contained within the other. Kind of like when you have two mirrors facing each other. Suddenly I became aware of the rest of the room as well (it was almost dark). The room was above the tunnel. The room was an isolated box. Outside the box there was nothing. Nothing at all.

I was struck by the most visceral panic I have ever experienced. It was even worse, and I?m really ashamed of this, than when I was fighting, and failing, to save my late Wife?s life after a fatal accident several years ago. The sheer desolation was crushing, paralyzing. I?m afraid I just can?t express it properly in words.
My room was a box that contained all that was left of the universe and I was rapidly falling away from it. Worse, by now something was sucking me away from it. Worse still, the lip of the tunnel (the uppermost of my faces) was collapsing, sucking my room, which was the universe, in behind me. I was aware that if I allowed this to happen, I would be responsible for the End Of Everything, all because I thought I was some sort of fucking spiritual voyager. I really can?t express how terrifying this felt.

I finally found the strength to fight against it. At first I merely struggled helplessly but I soon realized the only escape was back up through the tunnel. I climbed up and up. I could feel my poor grip against the walls of my throat as I climbed. Finally I fought my way to my mouth. I should mention that my conscious body was the same size as the one I was climbing out of. I forced my hands through, pried the jaws open, and squeezed out. During this the feel of my teeth and my breaking face were very real against my hands and body. This was only the first of literally thousands. On each exit I was wheeled around to the left. On each exit I grew more tired and more desperate.

I felt I was losing the battle and the universe would be swallowed up by the imploding tunnel. I realized I wasn?t quite climbing in the right way. I made one last, desperate effort. This time my real body (outside of the trip) jumped off the bed and headed for the ceiling via some shelves. Now I was aware of the real world in the peripheral vision of my trip. I struggled out of my own mouth for the final time but this time I ended up in an entirely different tube. I struggled through this tube, plunged into freezing cold water and climbed into another tube. This tube led to a final exit, again one which I could vividly feel with my hands, and which I now know was the bowl of the bong.

Suddenly I was back in my real, singular body, and aware. I ran and switched on the light. I took the tube of the bong out of my mouth and put it down in the farthest corner of the room. I went and sat on the bed, but still didn?t feel free of it yet. I realized I was still holding my breath. It took a huge a physical effort to exhale, and then all of my concentration to keep breathing. My body was convulsing and trying to tell me I was still spinning round to the left. Gradually I became present enough to look at the clock. I?d been gone for barely two minutes!

The feeling of desolation didn?t dissipate for another hour. I wanted to phone my girlfriend and have her come round but at the same time I realized I was safe now and it wasn?t fair to scare her with this. Not ever. Oddly enough, several hours later I was sound asleep and awoke next day feeling fine.


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## FloatingRoberto (Dec 6, 2006)

Just loooove it how people state they have been to Amsterdam. This makes me even more proud to live in this beautiful place. About Salvia (10 xtract): boooooring. Just saw 10 minutes of plants blossoming up a wall. Not really worth the money. If you want a thrill, save the money take a train to Scheveningen and go bungeejumping. Try n pronounce that, one ticket to scheveningen please. 
Or go to one of our great clubs, let the music lightshow and booze put you in a trance. :twisted: 
If you still want salvia and you are in NL, send me a mail and I give you tips.


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## IQ (Mar 20, 2007)

FloatingRoberto said:


> Just loooove it how people state they have been to Amsterdam. This makes me even more proud to live in this beautiful place. About Salvia (10 xtract): boooooring. Just saw 10 minutes of plants blossoming up a wall. Not really worth the money. If you want a thrill, save the money take a train to Scheveningen and go bungeejumping. Try n pronounce that, one ticket to scheveningen please.
> Or go to one of our great clubs, let the music lightshow and booze put you in a trance. :twisted:
> If you still want salvia and you are in NL, send me a mail and I give you tips.


Yeah man! Im off to defqon in june! Cannot wait!


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

I ade.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

jesus christ, you are all insane.

Ok ok i have done my fair share of drug use. Weed, acid mushrooms...and i am also fairly certain they led to me being in the poor mental state i am in now. Im not a vegetable or anything...but i think they def. helped build my anxiety and fear of insanity. Dp/Dr started with smoking weed like 8 years ago. And yea, i was a moron, and i smoked it many many times since then.

But salvia??? you are out of your mind. That stuff can fry even the most mentally healthy person.

You have HPPD and are using salvia??? crazy...

Take my advice and stay away from this shit. If you really gotta get fucked up stick with weed and beer. Or better yet just have a few beers now and then....weed can fry your mind also. I know first hand.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

d.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

My advice is not to do it...and to mail it to me instead :twisted:

Seriously, I heard about Salvia 2 weeks after it was made illegal here in Aus 

Honestly, just like others have said, be careful. From what I've heard its a very powerful drug so I'd reccomend having some psychedelic experience under your belt first, which it sounds like you have.

Other than that, it sounds like you have a good trip sitter which is great. Another word of advice I've heard about it is to respect the drug. If you are just trying it to get fucked up, you will be kicked on your ass. But if you humble yourself to it and take it as a transformative substance you may have a really great experience.

Take care and let us know how it goes if you decide to do it


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2007)

I've tried it, pretty intense, short duration and fast intoxication. It acts on the k opioid receptors in the brain which control perception. It didn't have an effect on my dp/dr, that's not to say it won't make yours worst. The following day was some how brighter and more happier for some reason after use of it.

I will say this for those of you using Marijuana after you got dp/dr, you are really stupid... You can't smoke marijuana when you have mental problems. It makes them alot worst... Marijuana can even release dopamine afterwards and too much of that will make you crazy.

Honestly drug use is for the mentally stable, not the mentally ill


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

hs.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2007)

Tigersuit said:


> I've smoked a TON of pot, salvia 20x, salvia leaves, done dextroamphetamine, and ecstasy since my onset of HPPD. The only thing that actually changed anything permanently was the dex, which made my DP/DR quite a bit worse, and the pot, which made my HPPD visuals slightly worse, but they seem to have leveled off now, and aren't getting worse with continued use.
> 
> I consider myself a responsible drug user. I read, and learn everything I can about a drug before I try them, and then try not to use them in excess after the fact.
> 
> Some of you might call me insane, but whatever. I actually feel more level headed, and at one with myself right now, than I have in months.


each time you are getting high on all these drugs it affects your brain, whether you choose to believe it or not. I too thought I could smoke weed after I got dp/dr but I was wrong. It made my problems 10 x worst one night and I'm still not the same from it.

Just look at the logic man, if you used drugs like weed and dxm and they made your problems worst that means they are not helping the problem. It may have gotten better afterwards and that's because of your brain's resilience. Your brain isn't meant to get pounded on by drugs all the time... you are making it weaker and more susceptible to more serious problems like psychosis.

You have a weak foundation on reality as it is... DP/DR HPPD geez man why would you gamble with your life like that?


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

nt.


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

Tigersuit said:


> I've smoked a TON of pot, salvia 20x, salvia leaves, done dextroamphetamine, and ecstasy since my onset of HPPD. The only thing that actually changed anything permanently was the dex, which made my DP/DR quite a bit worse, and the pot, which made my HPPD visuals slightly worse, but they seem to have leveled off now, and aren't getting worse with continued use.
> 
> I consider myself a responsible drug user. I read, and learn everything I can about a drug before I try them, and then try not to use them in excess after the fact.
> 
> Some of you might call me insane, but whatever. I actually feel more level headed, and at one with myself right now, than I have in months.


Look me up in 20 years and you can recount how level headed and at one you are then. Remember those words.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2007)

Tigersuit said:


> DXM isn't the same thing as dextroamphetamine.
> 
> DXM is a dissociative psychedelic, whereas dex is a stimulant.


oh i mixed them up sorry, but anyways yea drugs don't mix well with dp/dr brah


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Mission Possible said:


> each time you are getting high on all these drugs it affects your brain, whether you choose to believe it or not.


 Of course drugs affect your brain thats how they work. Getting out of bed in the morning affects your brain. But a drug affecting your brain does not equal brain damage.

Most drugs in fact don't cause any form of brain damage. Salvia certainly doesent thats for damn sure, pot doesent, dextroamphetamine does with heavy use, and the jury is still out on ecstasy. Ecstasy is not a everyday drug or even a every week drug but i doubt occasional use will do much harm.

Hell people trash their brains with alcohol every damn weekend and think nothing of it and they are really no worse off. You can give your brain a pounding before it will show up signs of damage. Evidence of this is i can type this sentence after all the alcohol i drank everyday over the years lol.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2007)

comfortably numb said:


> Mission Possible said:
> 
> 
> > each time you are getting high on all these drugs it affects your brain, whether you choose to believe it or not.
> ...


marijuana doesn't cause any damage? tell that to all the marijuana induced dp/dr suffererers. DP/DR is damage in itself and is not something that is desired from marijuana use. Countless other drugs cause dp/dr as well. Drugs cause brain damage, maybe not structural damage like taking a big chunk of your brain out but on a cellular level. They release too much of a certain chemical neurotransmitter in the brain and that in itself causes problems.

Don't give me that bullshit. You're just in denial


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

I took MDMA this past weekend and it didn't affect my DP in the slightest... in fact the experience helped me move even further into recovery. Drugs don't cause DP - if that were true then millions and millions of people would have it. Drugs can precipitate underlying anxiety and depression issues certainly. What we have on this site is a large group of people who have convinced themselves that smoking pot has permanently altered the chemistry or structure of their brain, which is completely irrational and ridiculous. DP is an obsessive condition, and once you have chosen what 'caused' your DP, it is radically difficult to consider any other possibilities. Prescription antidepressants, antipsychotics and tranquilizers alter the chemistry of your brain on a more basic level then do chemicals like THC or Psilocybin. To say something like "Weed causes brain damage" and then take your Effexor is the absolute pinnacle of irony.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

:shock:


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Mission Possible said:


> marijuana doesn't cause any damage? tell that to all the marijuana induced dp/dr suffererers. DP/DR is damage in itself and is not something that is desired from marijuana use. Countless other drugs cause dp/dr as well. Drugs cause brain damage, maybe not structural damage like taking a big chunk of your brain out but on a cellular level. They release too much of a certain chemical neurotransmitter in the brain and that in itself causes problems.
> 
> Don't give me that bullshit. You're just in denial


 Dp/dr is not brain damage. Weed does not cause brain damage even if it triggers dp/dr either.

Releasing neurotrasmitters does not in and of itself cause brain damage. Your on effexor? Well if releasing neurotrasmitters fried your brain then your brain would be toast due to the release of serotonin and in higher doses norepinephrine and in really high doses dopamine. Effexor may also be the only drug in the world that causes permanent dependence.

Have fun coming off that too. Ive quit alcohol, and heavy opiate habits cold turkey and they where a walk in the park compared to effexor withdrawal.

If you don't know what your really talking about it's best not to insult people. I didnt insult you so i don't know why your coming off as so hostile.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Sorry


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Sorry again.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Stupid quadruple post.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> I took MDMA this past weekend and it didn't affect my DP in the slightest... in fact the experience helped me move even further into recovery. Drugs don't cause DP - if that were true then millions and millions of people would have it. Drugs can precipitate underlying anxiety and depression issues certainly. What we have on this site is a large group of people who have convinced themselves that smoking pot has permanently altered the chemistry or structure of their brain, which is completely irrational and ridiculous. DP is an obsessive condition, and once you have chosen what 'caused' your DP, it is radically difficult to consider any other possibilities. Prescription antidepressants, antipsychotics and tranquilizers alter the chemistry of your brain on a more basic level then do chemicals like THC or Psilocybin. To say something like "Weed causes brain damage" and then take your Effexor is the absolute pinnacle of irony.


This guy takes ecstacy while dp'd, I mean how stupid can you possibly be? Keep thinking that taking drugs doesn't affect your brain's health and natural chemistry. Their have been numerous studies done showing that even 1 tablet of ecstacy can have PERMANENT negative effects on the serotonin neurotransmitters. Congratulations! oh and Also I don't take any psychiatric drugs, I never said I was on Effexor or any other psychiatric drug for that matter.

Oh and as for comfortably numb, you are a very naive person if you believe that too much of a neurotransmitter doesn't negatively effect you. What do you think anti psychotics do? They bind to the d2 and 5ht3 neurotransmitters in the brain. Why? Because Schizophrenics have a disregulation of those chemicals and certain other chemicals.

When you get high on cannabis thc affects c1 cannaboid receptor and now there is evidence that it releases dopamine from a part of the opioid system in the brain. Which is why you get increasingly susceptible to a psychosis. If DP/DR isn't damaging the brain then you wouldn't be experiencing any of the outrageous symptoms of dp/dr. Normal people don't feel like any of us. Brain imaging studies have already shown differences between a normal model and a dp model.

Keep listening to your druggy friend ludovico, since he knows everything. While you're at it, why don't you go drop a hit of acid, I'm sure that will help your problem. :roll:

I guarantee you that I would have never gotten dp/dr if it wasn't for marijuana.

GUARANTEED. This goes for all you drug induced.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

I gotta side with Mission possible. Ludo and numb...i like both you guys but you do seem to be in denial about the harsh realities of drugs. So many people on this board have dp/dr CAUSED BY MARIJUANA...and then you go on to say that marijuana does not cause it??? WTF are you talking about? Are you crazy? Or do you think everyone on this board who smoked marijuana and immediatly developed chronic dp/dr is just making it up?

I have been so messed up by drugs and have seen so many friends even more messed up on drugs. To try and downplay the negative effects of drugs, especially on a forum like this, is inexcusably irresponsible


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

d.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Tigersuit said:


> brandon is not taken said:
> 
> 
> > negative effects of drugs
> ...


overrated.... dont you have HPPD?? or did you just make that up, because i could not fathom an HPPD sufferer making that statement


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

id.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

Mission Possible said:


> This guy takes ecstacy while dp'd, I mean how stupid can you possibly be?


I hope your ignorance helps you recover from DP, cause it sure is helping me.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Are any of you scientists? If not then i think you should stop pretending to know what you are talking about quoting random science articles you found using your favorite search engine. Im going to stick to the facts, and those come from experiences, weed has done nothing but caused me mental agony, and drugs do alter ur brain chemistry because they are affecting how you perceive the world, if you didnt experience any shift in perception then that proves there wasnt any alterations to the functioning of your neurons, but there is a change. the brain is such an incredibly complex organ that experts still dont have a great understanding of how it works, its responsible for every action, thought feeling we have, therefore im staying away from consuming anything other than what my body needs to survive. By the way, weed kills brain cells, thats a fact, and the neurons that are capable of regeneration take a long time to. If you need proof, ill introduce you to my pothead friend jj who can barely remember his name, i personally witnessed his shift in personality after smoking weed, it changed his thinking therefore it changed his brain.


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## flipwilson (Aug 19, 2006)

All i want to know is can anyone list the actual positives that rec drugs have on the world. For all those who advocate their use, why do you defend them still knowing the can trigger dp/dr, schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, panic disorder and of course addiction. Sure i know many things in life could trigger the onset of of any one of these problems, but to purposely ingest something that will break the blood brain barrier while risking this seems absurd. I smoked cause i believed all this talk of weed being safe. What i mean by that is once i take this drug it runs its 3 hr course and then im back to normal, which obviously is not the case.

Would i have smoked knowing i could not feel love and attraction, to feel my artwork and create, to feel the seasons change, and the wonderful feeling of walking into my house to see my fam after a long shit day at work. NEVER!!!!
sure i got free will, but if i had known the truth i never wouldve been cursed with DP, i also GUARANTEE THAT!!

Now i ask again, with all respect and no hostility, what are the actual real life positives that you can attribute to rec drugs(for the sake of argument lets stay on rec drugs)? Please someone persuade me, convince me otherwise.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

e.


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## flipwilson (Aug 19, 2006)

Tigersuit said:


> I still feel tonnes of emotions with DP/DR, and HPPD. At one point I thought I was "emotionally blunt" as you folks all put it, but when I stopped running that thought through my head over and over, and started thinking positively, I realized I could laugh, joke around, feel love, sadness, etc. just as easily as I used to.


Thats great but i dont just think im emotionally blunt, i am, not to mention lethargic as hell 24/7.. I know who i was before, i was extremely emotional, very competetive, very empathetic, very romantic, and i am definatley not at this moment in time, that guy anymore. It is proven that the limbic system has diminished responses in DP, so its not always just a thought problem....anywhoo, back to the main topic......

"MDMA has totally changed my life"...HOW? This was my question, what do they actually do that you would say they'changed my life'.?

Do the benefits of rec drugs out weight the negatives, and if not why take em?


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

on.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Tigersuit said:


> I still feel tonnes of emotions with DP/DR, and HPPD. At one point I thought I was "emotionally blunt" as you folks all put it, but when I stopped running that thought through my head over and over, and started thinking positively, I realized I could laugh, joke around, feel love, sadness, etc. just as easily as I used to.
> 
> I have more going for me now than I ever have before (minus my girlfriend dumping me, that sucked), and my DP/DR/HPPD has not gotten better, nor has it worsened; I've just gotten used to it.
> 
> MDMA has totally changed my life. I'm as close to my friends now as I was back in October. It's great, and I feel great. I have no desire to do the drug ever again, and I most likely won't for at least a very long time.


Tigersuit,

Your proclamation "MDMA has totally changed my life," makes me sad. Right now, you think it's changed your life in a GOOD WAY. But, if you continue using it with such frequency, over a long period of time, you may not remain so enthusiastic.

This probably sounds patronizing, but that's not my intention. I have seen first hand what large quantities can do to you. More than ten years in the rave scene has not treated many of my friends well. (And they did not have problems with anxiety, panic, DP/DR to begin with.)

Sure, some of them are "fine." But some of them are shot to shit. My boyfriend is in rehab right now convinced he's permanently fried his brain because of all the E he's eaten. He's 33 years old, has crippling and debilitating panic issues, and is basically fucked. I'm not saying ecstacy is 100% responsible for this, but the drug CERTAINLY did him no favors.

You are young NOW, but you are not invincible.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

ote]


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

MDMA is a very satisfying experience, there is no need to repeat it. I've only taken it twice in about 4 years and have never had a strong desire to repeat any of the experiences.

And yes, experiences on recreational drugs can be life-changing and very positive.


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

Tigersuit: Your clarification about E, for Half A Person, is not much of a triumph. So you won't do E again. Great. What about all the other substances? Half A Person's message can apply to ANY drug: They are a key to nowhere.

I believe I care about these drug-related posts only because of where they are posted: On a site that caters to individuals with mental illness. A place where people who have used an "innocuous" drug such as marijuana and triggered panic and DR/DP as a result. A site where the "benefits" of drugs absolutely do not belong in discussion.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Tigersuit said:


> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> > MDMA has totally changed my life. I'm as close to my friends now as I was back in October. It's great, and I feel great. *I have no desire to do the drug ever again, and I most likely won't for at least a very long time.*


Yeah, I saw that. But I also think I've seen some flip-flopping from you regarding drug usage. My apologies if I'm wrong, or I have you confused with someone else. (You DID, however, admit to taking it three times in a week, right?)

Just trying to be helpful. I don't stick my nose into the drug thing too often. It is YOUR life, and who the fuck am I to tell you anything? If it's out of line to introduce a "hindsight" perspective to your semi-cavalier attitude about drugs...so be it.

Maybe someone ELSE will get something out of it.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

k.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

ect.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Ludovico said:


> MDMA is a very satisfying experience, there is no need to repeat it. I've only taken it twice in about 4 years and have never had a strong desire to repeat any of the experiences.
> 
> And yes, experiences on recreational drugs can be life-changing and very positive.


This makes no sense to me.

Saying there's no need to repeat it because it's so "satisfying," and then proceeding to say you HAVE repeated it is completely paradoxical.

Tigersuit saying, "I have no desire to do the drug ever again, and I most likely won't for at least a very long time," is likewise paradoxical.

No one PLANS on becoming addicted to anything or on going to rehab. (Or ruining relationships, losing jobs, etc.) My boyfriend certainly didn't. He was just having "fun."

I'm sure someone will be tempted to throw in some facts about how marijuana and/or MDMA (or whatever) are not addictive. And maybe certain drugs themselves aren't. But the "scene" is. The "fun" is.

Maybe for SOME people drugs can be "life-changing" and "positive." But pardon my skepticism about this panning out for them in the long run. For OTHER people that positivity can flip a 180 before they know it. The only way drugs ultimately change these people's lives is by fucking it up. Hang out with one particular friend of mine for ten minutes and you'd never touch anything again. Homeboy is toast.

I don't know how old you are, Ludovico. And I suppose it doesn't really matter. But I DO know my friends who have problems now all shared your attitude before things got ugly for them. It's all fun and games until somebody goes loopy, I guess.

It's one thing to say, "I understand there are serious risks, but I'm gonna take my chances anyway because I'm having fun," and a COMPLETELY different thing to get on this site and start pimping MDMA and other recreational drugs.

I completely, 100% agree with Jack30: There is NO room on this site for the glorification of recreational drug use. We are on a MENTAL HEALTH FORUM for crissakes. I think anyone who repeatedly does so is very misguided and, well, naive.

I'll climb off of my soapbox now.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> Mission Possible said:
> 
> 
> > This guy takes ecstacy while dp'd, I mean how stupid can you possibly be?
> ...


I don't consider myself ignorant

My logic tells me that using marijuana and other drugs while dp'd/dr'd is not a good idea. Why? Because that's how I got dp/dr. If you read the stickies at the top, I think other people have gotten it from MDMA use and LSD use.

You see I used to be just like you guys, I used to smoke marijuana after I got dp/dr the first time and even did Salvia D while dp'd/dr'd with no worstening effect jujst like tigersuit said.. Then one night I took a hit from a bong and went fukn nuts, couldn't remember my name, who I was where I was born etc. Started getting panic attack after panic attack and extreme DP/DR . I didn't know it was even in real life, I thought it was some sort of nightmare, I had split seconds of realizing I was in real life. I stayed in my room by myself for weeks completely unaware of the outside world. I had so many messed up symptoms that I still have today because of that shit... I've spent the last 2 years of my life in my room living with my mother while all my friends go out and experience life. Exploring the beauty of REALITY!

I'm just trying to prevent you guys from ending up worst.. It's so fucked up.. if you think you are bad now with your HPPD and dp/dr you may be right but trust me it's hard to imagine but it gets ALOT worst!! ALOT! I can't even think about it without my hands trembling. I seriously thought I was in a perpetual hell which it was and is today just a little better 2 years later. 4 years total


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

I dont think I have ever 'pimped' out any drug, and I've never recommended that anybody try any drug. These are decisions that you should make yourself, and I made them. This discussion is completely futile because this message board is populated by socially crippled anxiety addicts, many of whom blame marijuana or LSD or coffee or whatever for their condition. It's impossible for any of us to look at the situation objectively, even with the answers right in front of us. Only a miniscule percentage of people who smoke marijuana or take ecstasy have any negative reaction to them at all. But somebody like me trying to point out the potential for positive, responsible recreational drug use on a message board full of mentally ill people is just ignorant. I'll stop it now.

And DP doesn't lock you in your room - You do.

Censorship: 1
Ludovico: 0


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> I dont think I have ever 'pimped' out any drug, and I've never recommended that anybody try any drug. These are decisions that you should make yourself, and I made them. This discussion is completely futile because this message board is populated by socially crippled anxiety addicts, many of whom blame marijuana or LSD or coffee or whatever for their condition. It's impossible for any of us to look at the situation objectively, even with the answers right in front of us. Only a miniscule percentage of people who smoke marijuana or take ecstasy have any negative reaction to them at all. But somebody like me trying to point out the potential for positive, responsible recreational drug use on a message board full of mentally ill people is just ignorant. I'll stop it now.
> 
> And DP doesn't lock you in your room - You do.
> 
> ...


You don't even know what the flyin fuk your talking about, how do you expect anyone else to believe in your useless words. The only thing miniscule is your concern for your life.


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## none (Dec 29, 2005)

//


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

Mission Possible said:


> You don't even know what the flyin fuk your talking about, how do you expect anyone else to believe in your useless words. The only thing miniscule is your concern for your life.


Then prove me wrong instead of hurling insults?


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Umm mission impossible why the hell are you so hostile towards me? It sounds like you have a chemical imbalance in some neurotrasmitter. Or perhaps your just a nasty person. But who cares least of all me.

I never said that a imbalance in neurotransmitters cannot cause problems. Schizophrenia is either caused by a imbalace of dopamine or serotonin there is 2 schools on the matter. I think it's a combination of both but more to do with serotonin because the newer atypical anti-psychotics antagonize 5-ht2 and 5-ht1a alot more then D1 and D2. They also seem to work alot better, are alot safer and cause less side effect's. I was on seroquel for bipolar and i hardly had any side effect's from it really but some people hate it.

However altering your brain chemistry temporarily with most drugs does not cause brain damage that is a fact. Also weed does not cause any brain damage at all but it may cause dp/dr in some people. Dp/dr is not brain damage however as it is usually related to anxiety and when my anxiety went away so did my dp/dr.

If pot was as dangerous as you thought it was my whole town would be psychotic. Sure lots of people on this site have gotten dp/dr from pot but this is a dp/dr site for godsakes. It's somewhat like saying alot of people got alcoholism from alcohol at a AA meeting.

Also don't think i am naive on the dangers of drugs. I was a total alcoholic for years and finally managed to quit 4 years ago. Ive also seen friends of mine turn into the walking dead due to cocaine, booze and meth. So i know all about what drug addiction can do to you. Moderation is the key you see.

I don't listen to ludovico or anyone else for that matter on stuff like this. I certainly don't think he knows everything either but you certainly don't and neither do i. I make up my own mind on such matters as these.

I don't take any rec drugs these days besides the ones im prescribed but that is mainly because i have noone to go trip with anymore. Thanks for your idea of dropping acid with ludovico though he might be a cool person to trip with. I bet youd be one of those total bring downs. If ludovico can get some good acid im all for tripping out with him.



> Drug use isn't good for you.


 Not for everyone it is ok for some people. Thats a rather blanket statement you made.


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

Ludo, Numb and Tiger. Smoke as much weed as you want and do as much acid/E/MDMA/Salvia as you like. I'll come and visit you in the psychiatric hospital in 20 years. You might be lucky, I might even bring you guys some flowers.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Ludovico,

You seem like an intelligent guy. (And that's not me being a sarcastic smartass; I'm serious.) Thank you for deciding to stop shedding light on POTENTIAL "positive, responsible recreational drug use."

Obviously I don't believe every person who tries drugs is going to fry their brains permanently or end up on skid row. BUT, what riles me most here on this site: Those advocating drug use (or those who portray it in a positive light) don't seem to get what the big fuss is. Or understand why some of us find casual conversations about recreational drug use mind boggling.

It can be a BIG fuss for the "miniscule percentage" of us who've had our lives adversely affected by drug use/abuse; those who've seen, and even lived, the potential NEGATIVES.

You may see this as a censorship issue. But, it seems more like a common sense issue to me. I guess that is our personal biases butting heads.

FYI - I'm with you on the anxiety front. I believe it is at the heart of this shitty, shitty disorder (or whatever label we give DP).

I do not BLAME marijuana for any of my mental health issues but, like I said about my boyfriend and MDMA, it surely DOES NOT HELP matters any. How do I know this? Because many times when I've smoked pot my thoughts swirled so fast they felt like the were coming out my ears. Sometimes I'd lay on the floor feeling like all my internal organs were going to explode any second; my heart going to implode. Yeah, I have some hardcore, and fairly chronic, anxiety. But smoking pot exacerbates it greatly and can lead to panic attacks.

So...I think it's unwise to log on and tell anyone about the OTHER times I smoked pot and had a good time. It seems ludicrous to me, in fact. The potential _bad_ is way way worse than the potential _good_ is fun.

Based on many other accounts I've read on this site...I am not an anomaly here. You seem rather dismissive (an eensy bit condescending even) about this being a legitimate issue.

I am NOT an "anxiety addict" looking for a scapegoat to blame my problems on. I work hard to keep it in check.

But I AM grouchy. And tired. And I am done.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

jonnyfiasco said:


> Ludo, Numb and Tiger. Smoke as much weed as you want and do as much acid/E/MDMA/Salvia as you like. I'll come and visit you in the psychiatric hospital in 20 years. You might be lucky, I might even bring you guys some flowers.


 If i was going to be in a psychiatric ward due to drugs i think id be there by now lol. I might end up in a psychiatric ward due to other issues but not drug related.

MDMA is E by the way so that throws your knowledge on the subject into question right there.

Im only speaking for myself here but shrooms and weed helped my dp/dr, brain fog, anxiety and bipolar. Weed knocked out mixed state mania like nothing else ive ever taken. It made me see things in a more logical light and calmed me down fast.

I no longer have dp/dr, brain fog or anxiety though. The bipolar is still there but im now thankfully getting proper treatment for it. It will always be there though it will just be controlled.

I think i have seen some evidence stating that weed may be useful in bipolar disorder but don't quote me on that. It does have anti-convulsant properties though so it would make sense that it may be useful in bipolar.

But weed and shrooms only helped ME and i am speaking for ME only. They may very well make another person 10 times worse then what they already are. Im just speaking from my experiences so there is no way anybody can come back and legitamitely say that im promoting the use of these drugs. I am not and it's as simple as that. Everyone has their own life to live and to each their own.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

We love a drug debate don't we...... LOL 
It always proves to be quite the distraction


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

We certainly do!!! 

As far as I know there is a slight difference between MDMA and E (as in pills) but I do admit the fact you are much more knowledgeable on the science and "street talk" on drugs than I am.

I do however notice the fact that 99/100 drugs will do more harm than good and we should really go with the percentages aye fellas?

Ed : The fact is not an actual fact, but you know what I mean...


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

To answer the topic question: No I have not tried salvia.

Or acid.


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

I would like to add that I agree with Numb that alcohol is probably the worst drug of them all. Especially here in the UK.

I was down at the corner store earlier this evening. Teenage drinking is out of control. A group of 14 year olds were buying booze like it was growing on trees. The cashier didnt blink an eyelid. But then I have travelled around Europe and the culture is much different there in that they openly drink alcohol from a young age and are much more responsible with it.

Excuse me for getting side tracked.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

jonnyfiasco said:


> We certainly do!!!
> 
> As far as I know there is a slight difference between MDMA and E (as in pills) but I do admit the fact you are much more knowledgeable on the science and "street talk" on drugs than I am.
> 
> ...


 Your right about the E pills on the street. Most of them do contain atleast some MDMA though the rest is usually just benign fillers. However some asshole dealers don't put any MDMA in their pills or very little. They just put methamphetamine, sometimes dextromethorphan or if the dealers a real asshole and your unlucky enough to get these pills PMA in them. It's very rare that youl actually get something toxic in a pill usually it's just cut with benign fillers.

Well id have to say that most drugs produce neutral long term effect's and cause no harm, some of them you may actually gain a little insight with (ie psychedelics with SOME people) and thus have good long term effect's and others have disasterous long term effect's.

This can't really be backed up by scientific fact either but it's more or less my opinion.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

Go ahead guys keep using your weed shrooms lsd x speed coke dmt whatever you want. I'm sure they don't change your brain chemistry and you magically experience the effects.

All I know is fukd in the head enough already to even dare go to weed and alcohol again.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Mission Possible said:


> Go ahead guys keep using your weed shrooms lsd x speed coke dmt whatever you want. I'm sure they don't change your brain chemistry and you magically experience the effects.
> 
> All I know is fukd in the head enough already to even dare go to weed and alcohol again.


 Of course they temporarily produce changes in the neurotrasmitters of your brain. How do you think they produce there effect's. I already knew that and everybody else did so what was your point?

That has to be one of the most pointless posts ive seen on here and that is some accomplishment.

Also nobody disputes that the use of speed and cocaine is bad for you. Or atleast i wouldnt. Ive never touched speed and i never liked coke enough to do it very often.

Your like someone that's on heavy drugs. PCP perhaps?


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## flipwilson (Aug 19, 2006)

i know my post was a few pages back but seriously i still havent gotten a specific answer to my question.

What are the good experiences, positives, benefits of rec drugs? Besides giggling like little school girls with your friends(like i did once). Comfortably numb, Ludovico, Tigersuit, i really am just curious and not meaning to sound jugdemental. Like i said, convince me.

peace.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

comfortably numb said:


> Mission Possible said:
> 
> 
> > Go ahead guys keep using your weed shrooms lsd x speed coke dmt whatever you want. I'm sure they don't change your brain chemistry and you magically experience the effects.
> ...


What's pointless is your continuous defense of mind altering drugs. If dp/dr doesn't bother you and getting high on weed and shrooms is fun and helps you, Why don't you get the fuk off the boards? Go get high in a corner somewhere dreaming of magical goats with wings on them. This forum most definitely doesn't need morons like you who go around doing drugs and then advocating there use on dp/dr forums.

There are people here who have mental problems that came from drug use, including me! They don't need you telling them that Ecstacy, shrooms and marijuana help dp/dr. It's fukn ridiculous that we are even having this retarded conversation... I mean how fukn stupid can you be??


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

DING DING :mrgreen:


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

Flip Wilson:

Benefits, positives, etc., regarding recreational drugs...I am not an elitist straight-edge. I used to swallow, smoke, snort, and inject anything and everything. And honestly? I had a great time, all the time.

Until it all caught up with me. It catches up with ALL of us, to one degree or another. Sometimes a person makes it out clean on the other side. Like I did. Other times, a person dies. Goes to prison. Lives like the walking dead. Loses her soul. Loses everything he could have been.

So I guess it comes down to weighing the acute benefits (fun) of the party scene against the reality and ramifications of abusing your body and mind.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

flipwilson said:


> i know my post was a few pages back but seriously i still havent gotten a specific answer to my question.
> 
> What are the good experiences, positives, benefits of rec drugs? Besides giggling like little school girls with your friends(like i did once). Comfortably numb, Ludovico, Tigersuit, i really am just curious and not meaning to sound jugdemental. Like i said, convince me.
> 
> peace.


I use alcohol a few times a week because it kills ALL anxiety and lets me be who I am and say what I want without worrying about everything.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

^^^
l l l Same Here. I use alcohol to ease my anxiety, it makes it easier to be captured in the moment and concentrate on whats going on around me, although the day after my dp/dr is worse.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Mission Possible said:


> What's pointless is your continuous defense of mind altering drugs. If dp/dr doesn't bother you and getting high on weed and shrooms is fun and helps you, Why don't you get the fuk off the boards? Go get high in a corner somewhere dreaming of magical goats with wings on them. This forum most definitely doesn't need morons like you who go around doing drugs and then advocating there use on dp/dr forums.
> 
> There are people here who have mental problems that came from drug use, including me! They don't need you telling them that Ecstacy, shrooms and marijuana help dp/dr. It's fukn ridiculous that we are even having this retarded conversation... I mean how fukn stupid can you be??


 Goddamn your all rilled up ain't ya? Go take a chill pill lol.

I wasent even going to respond to this post but i figured id try and clear something up. I don't promote drug use but i do defend everyones right to take drugs. I never said drugs could help someones dp/dr can you read that much or is that to complicated for you? I said it helped mine that does not mean it helps anybody else under the sun.

Also i have helped out a few people on this forum by answering some questions they had or by telling them how i finally got over my dp/dr, brain fog and anxiety after 24 years. So i think i do belong here. I do end up in arguments such as this from time to time but my views are no less valid then yours or anyone elses for that matter.

What we don't need on this board are people who fly off the handle and have to resort to getting all pissy and calling other people names every time they don't agree with someone elses point of view. You can argue against someones view on a paticular topic without going into a hissy fit.


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

C-Numb: Even though you are a dirtbag stoner, I agree with you. 

*hisses at the hissy fit*


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

k..


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

for one, alcohol is legal.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

flipwilson said:


> ...Comfortably numb, Ludovico, Tigersuit, i really am just curious and not meaning to sound jugdemental. Like i said, convince me.


I can't speak for anyone else but here it some of what I have taken away from experiences with ecstasy.

MDMA has been used in psychotherapy as an aid for people with repressed memories, post-traumatic-stress etc. It's useful because it puts you in a mind space of great openness and empathy. While under the effects of the drug, it becomes very easy to discuss and work through problems that you would normally ignore or put into the back of your mind (like, say, an existential crisis?). It allows you to look at something that's been bothering you from a less fearful perspective. Yes, it's a chemically enduced mindset - but this doesn't make it experientially false. Quite the opposite in fact. All of our emotions and experiences are because of chemicals swirling around in our brain. Once you are in this highly empathetic, open-minded and optimistic state of mind, you can begin to raise questions with yourself:

"Will I get through this DP nonsense?", "Am I going to be ok?", "Does anyone really understand what I'm going through?", "Is DP useful in any way? How can I maximize the useful effects and minimize the negative?".

Because of MDMA's profile as an 'empathogen', it basically won't allow you to have negative thoughts. There is an overwhelming and completely legitimate sense of 'everything is going to be alright'.

Even though the MDMA experience only lasts 3-5 hours, the lessons you learn can be applied to your daily life when dealing with DP (or anything else). Do not underestimate the power of 2 hours without anxiety, tension, stress, negativity, overanalysis, cycle-thoughts and pessimism. If nothing else, this time proves to you that you CAN exist without these things and that it's within your reach without the assistance of drugs. I have had absolutely no desire to take any psychoactive compounds since my last MDMA experience (no drugs, caffeine, liquor, cigarettes...).

I am not advocating the use of this chemical to anyone, and certainly not to anyone with a mental illness. Everyone reacts differently to every chemical, our brain chemistry is as unique as our fingerprints.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Be careful Ludvico I said exactly the same things a few weeks ago and my thread was erased and I was widely condemned.

Ecstasy can be used in therapy very effectively http://www.maps.org/mdma/#healing but it really has to be structured in a supportive setting with trained psychologists for it to be safely benneficial, if you go and get mashed in a club then it probably isnt good for people who are suffering with mental difficulties because it could open up anxiety which cant be contained without help and also the comedown could make you suicidal. You have to educate yourself about how to take ecstasy and how to make it work before you can expect it to do anything postive, if you just go out for night out you will probably just make things much worse.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2007)

Pablo said:


> Be careful Ludvico I said exactly the same things a few weeks ago and my thread was erased and I was widely condemned.


Pablo I believe that thread was probably erased because we hijacked someone else's blog. 
I don't think it had anything to do with what you said.

Greg


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Tigersuit said:


> brandon is not taken said:
> 
> 
> > flipwilson said:
> ...


I never said that what you do is worse then what I do.

Like allmind said, alcohol is legal, which helps, but it is not the biggest reason. Alcohol has been around for a LONG time and used and abused by lots of people. The effects of alcohol are well documented and predictable. Occasional use is not going to harm you. Long term chronic use will result in addiction and damage your liver.

Extacy on the other hand, is a recent drug that has not been studied that well. There have been many cases of a single E session making someones dormant psychological condition come out and ruin several years of thier life. It also can cause HPPD.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

sis.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

> Extacy on the other hand, is a recent drug that has not been studied that well. There have been many cases of a single E session making someones dormant psychological condition come out and ruin several years of thier life. It also can cause HPPD.


Ecstasy opens people up, brings down mental defences and lifts repressions which is exactly why it can be so psychologically beneficial as well as so psychologically damaging because your mental defences exist for a reason so you have to be prepared to face up to what is below your defences if you take ecstasy.

It is one bad ecstasy experience which has ruined the last 4 years of my life but I know now that what it did is bring out problems which were already there that I was trying to deny, so I know first hand that it is very risky business taking ecstasy without expert support to deal with the experience.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

ill.


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## jimmyb (May 9, 2007)

Might have done you some good then mate.

NOW DON'T DO IT AGAIN YOU CRAZY DUTCH BASTARD! :lol:


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