# ple



## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Hello Jasmine,

The problem with theorising is that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Your post is very similar to the content of a typical DR/DP sufferers obsessional rumination, or rather - an attempt to rationalise the experiences we have with DR/DP. It's perfectly natural, perfectly understandable considering the circumstances - I did it, nearly every DR/DP sufferer has at some point or another mused over the quasi-metaphysical ramifications of their symptoms.

The thing is, the more lucid and intelligent, like yourself, are tempted (and again, I can understand why) by, let's say - kooky ideas, or rather, seemingly possible but unlikely explainations for their experiences. We are tempted to dismiss that fact that we are mentally ill, and embrace the world of (depending on your creed) religion, mysticism, the paranormal or supernatural, or more usually a really quite odd blending of them all. Most well read people nowadays have an awareness of classical physics, and a lay persons graps of topics such as Quantum Theory, etc, and they (during DR/DP) seem to offer an explaination.

Well they don't. People talk of 'energy', 'vibration', 'quantum uncertainty' in relation to their illness without really explaining what they mean. They say the words, we all hear it and nod our heads, because it sounds lovely, but it's meaningless and has little or no basis in reality. To try and simplify (because, in the end - isn't that what we all want ?) our illness, to understand this strange whirl of reality that engulfs us. But it just ain't true. It _could_ be, of course, but it could also be something to do with aliens or the CIA, and when someone like me dismisses it out of hand a lot of people get upset, because I guess they feel like it is a kick in the teeth to their intellectual vanity. But in the end, what you have to realise is that DR/DP, almost certainly, almost irrefutibly, is a neurotic illness triggered by some form of psychological trauma. And this is important - the obsessional rumination is the agent behind this kind of mystical speculation. It spood feeds your DR/DP little mouthfuls of whimsy; which in turn keeps your DR/DP alive.

You're absolutely right. People are afraid of what they don't understand, but, you see, you've fallen into exactly the same trap by pondering on the 'reality' of it.

The reality is that DR/DP is an illness. A wicked, cursed, spiteful piece of normal psychopathology gone wrong. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

Why dismiss it totally out of hand? It sounds plausable, high and low frequency vibrations etc. The challenge for someone like openminded is to develop her belief and theory into a solid arguement that can be scientifically tested. In years to come, pseudosciences of today may well be the science of tomorrow. Until then, someone will have to be laughed at by conventional scientists as they develop unproven theories against the grain, or in isolation/exile from orthodox science.

Martin, didnt you recently admit to having some sort of sight or esp ability?


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm not dismissing Jasmine's theory in particular, I'm just trying to remind people that DR/DP is an illness, and not some kind of mystical enlightenment due to 'vibrations' or whatever. It's as simple as that. I don't (actually, I do) understand why these 'theories' aren't as popular in regards to other ailments. It's because the experiences of DR/DP are so weird, so reality-distorting, that we wander over the muddy ground towards alternative explainations.



> Martin, didnt you recently admit to having some sort of sight or esp ability


Yes and no. I didn't 'admit' anything. I do, apparently, have a strange ability to pick up things about people and places that I don't know consciously, but, and I'm starting to think I'm the only person in the world who doesn't), I don't automatically jump to paranormal or spiritual conclusions. I don't believe that thunder is god/s anger. Do you?


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2006)

widescreened said:


> Why dismiss it totally out of hand? It sounds plausable, high and low frequency vibrations etc. The challenge for someone like openminded is to develop her belief and theory into a solid arguement that can be scientifically tested. In years to come, pseudosciences of today may well be the science of tomorrow. Until then, someone will have to be laughed at by conventional scientists as they develop unproven theories against the grain, or in isolation/exile from orthodox science.
> 
> Martin, didnt you recently admit to having some sort of sight or esp ability?


It?s a interesting theory, but it must be dismiss (for now) if openminded wishes to over come their illness (I?m with Martin on this, you?re IQ must be pretty damn high), with out 100% evidences of what any one believes in, I feel it?s unhealthy while mentally not sound to believe it, take religion for instant, if you or any one else could give me 100% proof that it?s real, I would believe? but you can?t, people who believe use a little something called ?faith? (strong belief in God or a particular religion), I feel their belief of god/s comes from false evidence, if you?re going through a hard time you may wish to believe anything to ease your pain, or your parents mite of brought you up this way. The main point I would like to make now is; I respect any one?s belief in religion because it?s a nice thought you?re going to a good place after life, what I disagree with is my old sister?s friend telling her she?s going to hell because she doesn?t believe in god.


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## Thayli (Sep 25, 2006)

openminded said:


> Creation is just energy resonating at different frequencies.
> If it vibrates at a slow speed it appears dense, the faster it vibrates, the less solid it appears, until it reaches speeds at which we cannot see it anymore.


no, far from it!
so, you are able to see radiowaves and microwaves and you don't see your filament in your room(high vibration)?



> Everything is made up from atoms, atoms are not solid they are energy.


atoms resonate energy under certain circumstances.
why is energy the opposite of solid? neutronstars are resonating x-rays (short wavelenghts,high energy) but they are the most dense entities in the universe.
and also: not everything is made out of atoms by the way, there are dark matter, plasma and neutrons.



> There are hundreds of frequencies resonating around us, we choose what we want to see.


that's just a theory brought up by quantum physics and that is all it is: a theory which won't explain dp!

i'm just curious:
is there any equation which shows the connection between solidnes and energy?
did you read these theories somewhere or do you think this enlightment came with dp?


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2006)

Thayli:

Tell me about anti matter; i'm interested.


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## Thayli (Sep 25, 2006)

Emulated Puppet{eer said:


> Thayli:
> 
> Tell me about anti matter; i'm interested.


i wouldn't dare to make your head more confused...
if you are interested in physics than grab a book and start with mechanics...that's the problem with that science...you can't start anywhere, you have to build up things from scratch...


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2006)

I assumed you would use some excuse. Please, do not worry over my mind... it will be fine, go ahead and shoot; Explain anti matter please.


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## Thayli (Sep 25, 2006)

http://livefromcern.web.cern.ch/livefro ... ntimatter/

use this first and then come for a discussion about it.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I think that we're all possessed by demons or an evil spirit, hijacking our souls and minds. That sounds plausible too, right? Listen up: stop rationalizing your way out of your symptoms with esoteric theories because your DP will only get worse. Try to ignore it and you're on your way to a speedy recovery.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

Hmmm, when I first became depersonalized I felt like a vibration or humming sound inside my head that went from a high frequency to a low almost inaudible one. That was very strange. Theories are just theories, however interesting and imaginative, until they are proven true...then they become boring facts.

Openminded, have you ever seen any lottery numbers in your dreams by chance? 

I have an interesting theory of how thoughts may be communicated thru space from one person to another that may describe what martin occasionally experiences. The electricity that flows thru our neurons when we create a thought might generate a magnetic field (like current travelling thru a wire creates a small magnetic field) and this magnetic field travels out of our heads and into another which, in turn, induces an electrical signal (like a moving magnet field can induce electricity in a wire - highschool stuff - remember?) in the receiving person's neurons and will produce the corresponding thought. Get it? It's all down-to-earth physics.

But don't ask me to prove it.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Openminded, I just quickly wanted to say that I agree with everything you said and see things in much the same way.

Don't let these nay sayers convince you you're crazy


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

:roll:


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## Crystal (Dec 13, 2006)

Yes, I agree, we should not just accept everything we read or are told.
Not everything can be boxed up in some sort of neat little package.
I think people like to believe that because it creates a sense of control in our lives, when really, we are all just theorising.

My advice is simply, trust your own instincts, and don't just accept everything on face value, open up a little, you will be surprised at what you find.

Crystal


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> stop rationalizing your way out of your symptoms with esoteric theories because your DP will only get worse. Try to ignore it and you're on your way to a speedy recovery.


Spot on!

Open-minded? How open-minded? Like my mentor the mighty Richard Dawkins says; 'Sure, we should all keep an open mind, but not such an open mind that our brains fall out.'

Can't you see that it is the DR/DP and the obsessional rumination itself that it making you have these thoughts? I don't obsess over what my leukemia could 'possibly be', I know what it is. What's the difference?

It's just a warning, from someone who has been in exactly the same position as you. Obsessional speculation about the philosophical/metaphysical/mystical nature of your symptoms only, only, ONLY makes it worse. It is utterly self-defeating for your mental well-being.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

This is the question, whether to distract yourself from harmful thoughts and memories or to look at the core issues behind them and meet them head on, thereby fearing them less and less.

The unfortunate thing about dp/dr is that it embraces such a broad spectrum of humanity. Artists, writers, musicians seem to have it in spades, but that doesnt mean they are mentally ill.

There are those who have it as a comorbid aspect of obsessiveness, depression or anxiety state. These are the people who should run a mile from esoteric learnings, at least until such a time as they have regained a handle on their lives.

For the less traumatised, or indeed the more brave and daring, why not investigate these aspects of pseudoscience and learning. Did you know that Neuton was up to his eyes in numerology, alchemy etc? How this influenced his work is beyond me, if at all, but it prooves that it didnt distract him from uncovering and articulating physics as we know it today.

Maritn, I was raised an Irish Catholic, so Im sure you know how I feel on the good cop/bad cop God thing.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Are you suggesting that all theories are the result of people trying to deflect their supposed mental illness.


What? No, of course I'm not suggesting that. You want to think that I am suggesting that (actually, it's your DR/DP that is), but I'm not. There is a difference here between 'theory' and 'discoveries'. Anyone can have a theory about anything. Discoveries, usually, are either the product of rigorous scientific investigation or people stumbling over them by accident. In anycase, why are we 'theorizing' about DR/DP? We know what it is, as sure as we can be about anything. As sure as we know that grass is green, the sky is blue, blood is red....etc. I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall here. The ONLY reason you are theorizing about it is because the very nature of your DR/DP demands it. And because of this, you won't get any better if you let it do so. I can't say it any clearer than that. And what difference does it make whether even if it's 'vibrating energy' or whatever? None.



> I find that a very simplistic statement


I'm not surprised, because it seems that to want, or need, to complicate matters. I'm desperatley trying not to offend you here, but doubtless I will. It's not simplistic at all - it goes to the very heart of the matter. Where do you draw the line? Where does your speculation and theorizing become nothing more than idle ramblings, using snippets of psuedo-science you may have read, and other misinformation? I can dream up any number of 'possible' explainations for DR/DP, sythnasizing science and mysticism that I know little about. But I don't, because it's ridiculous.

Ask yourself, why are you doing it? Why?

[/quote]


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Look, I'm not trying to stem intellectual debate, not at all. And I'm not questioning your intellectually validity, I'm just saying, with regards to DR/DP, we know what it is. And my real point is, and this is the last time I'm going to say it because my forehead is bleeding from bashing it against the wall , is that quasi-mystic/psudeo-scientific speculation regarding DR/DP is counterproductive; at least while you are still suffering from it - because, I say again, it is your DR/DP itself, fed by the obsessional rumination, that is making you do it. That...is...all.

I do agree, it is hard to draw a line, and there is no way that I, or any of the other mods would stop people musing over the reality of DR/DP, but in the end - this is a mental health forum for people suffering from an illness, and those of us who have recovered have feel a personal (well, I do anyway - it's up to individual conscience, time etc.) responsibilty, now bathing in the warm glow of reality, to offer our opinions. Of course, that's not to say that we are right.....but....well, I am!   So there. :twisted:


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

If you have dp/dr that are accompanied by panic attacks, apathy, depression, anxiety, loss of appetite, sleep disturbance etc etc, then the liklihood is that dp/dr is the result of ptsd. The scenes in Saving Private Ryan, especially the one where the soldier goes back for his dismembered arm on the beach is a classic example of dp/dr enduced by trauma. 
There are people who are in a different catagory, and if they arent traumatised, could well go ahead and explore new ways of viewing rather than conventional ones. I think that the science of tomorrow is the quackery of today.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> If you don't agree, then just exit the thread, simple.


Ah...democracy in action. That's what I like to see.  So...let's see if I get you right. If I see something on here that I vehermently disagree with, and think that the ramifications of it may be harmful, then I shouldn't say anything? Right. OK.



> I also think you may offend some members by suggesting that simple speculation will retard a recovery from dp, that is if they feel dp is something you need to recover from.


Yes, this usually happens. If I, personally, don't agree with speculation (and yours is far from 'simple') then I'm cast out like a fallen angel; usually called a simple minded bigot, or something alone those lines. But you've just betrayed your real colours in this respect - 'that is if they feel do is something you need to recover from.'

Ho ho ho. Please, let me remind you - the majority of people who come here are suffering from (let's just speculate,as you do, for a minute) from a neurotic mental disorder. And they hate it. I suggest we take a straw-poll of people on this site and see how many of them want to recover. We'll see how many people are terrified by this...well, whatever it is (!)...and want to get rid of it. Let's see. Let's see how many people, whether it is some kind of enlightenment (and I know you had a go at me for using the word, but again - by saying that 'some people might not want to recover from', your intention is clear!) or not, want rid of it.

There is nothing wrong with 'simple' speculation. But I'm sorry, whenever someone comes on here promoting the positive values of DR/DP, then I'll be there to cut them down. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often.

DR/DP is a evil sickness. That is why this site is here. Not to promote some ideas that DR/DP is some weird kind of window into......whatever. The sooner you learn that the better.


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## Thayli (Sep 25, 2006)

there is not even one evidence, that science got stronger because of people who broke the boundaries by ignoring the truths. 
if a new theory comes up, it has to conform to "old" theories and enlarge them.
example: einsteins theory of relativity is an upgrade of newtons classical mechanics, without harming the old facts.every new exploration is an upgrade of old thoughts.the old picture of newton sitting underneath a tree with an apple falling on his head is bullshit. 
what i can read here is: "what if anything we knew or saw is wrong?"
then i have to answer like my professor always did: "if the whole world of physics is wrong, then it has to be damn good wrong". Because planes fly, cars drive, machines work, and computers allow us to discuss about everything.And there are hundreds of other examples.
such a big amount of people are deluded and we, the vast minority, got the truth, we, who are terrified by getting outside, unable to enjoy our lifes, kiss, dance, laugh are the chosen ones? sorry but rather than banging my head i prefer to laugh out loudly on this idea.

So, if anyone here wants to "use" this beast for his advantage, then i advise to start with the basics and then break the boundaries of current science. people spent their whole lifes for just one good thought, just one! But before, they studied the old thoughts and achievements day by day, year after year.
I will be the first one who sends his congrats to them who turned the world upside down.
I totally agree with martinelv. And seeing these thoughts as an ilness doesn't mean to ban them.It means to accept them for what they are: senseless, useless and mellow.


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

Jas,

Do you suffer from DP/DR?


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Martinelv said:


> Ho ho ho. Please, let me remind you - the majority of people who come here are suffering from (let's just speculate,as you do, for a minute) from a neurotic mental disorder. And they hate it. I suggest we take a straw-poll of people on this site and see how many of them want to recover. We'll see how many people are terrified by this...well, whatever it is (!)...and want to get rid of it. Let's see. Let's see how many people, whether it is some kind of enlightenment (and I know you had a go at me for using the word, but again - by saying that 'some people might not want to recover from', your intention is clear!) or not, want rid of it.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with 'simple' speculation. But I'm sorry, whenever someone comes on here promoting the positive values of DR/DP, then I'll be there to cut them down. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often.
> 
> DR/DP is a evil sickness. That is why this site is here. Not to promote some ideas that DR/DP is some weird kind of window into......whatever. The sooner you learn that the better.


Ok let me start off by saying that DR/DP is a VALID state of mind. Not many people (if any) find it enjoyable, but if someone honestly wants to stay there then that's their choice.

However I notice all too often this idea that DP is an "Evil sickness" and people want nothing more than to get rid of it. The way is through, not out. The simple fact is you can never just make it go away.

All illnesses represent an opportunity for growth and learning. To heal yourself you need to understand what caused it in the first place and then change those things on a grass roots level.

The reason DP seems as though its a higher plane is because, well, it sort of is, in a way. Your emotional/mental/energetic/spiritual body is withdrawing from your physical body, without actually severing the connection. So your thoughts are in a sense on a different plane.

However, this is harmful to us while we are alive on this planet because it does not allow us to experience life. If you want to live a full and healthy life, you have to heal through DP.

But by all means, stay in that state for as long as you want - I can 100% assure you that it has much to teach us.


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## Cam (Dec 13, 2006)

I am sure we will all learn something from the experience.

Cam 8)


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2006)

DR/DP must be forsaken, we have no control over it... and so it must be seen as an enemy, do you want the enemy to keep a film of fakeness over you eyes for as long as you breathe?


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## Cam (Dec 13, 2006)

What are you talking about puppet?
Do you take anything seriously?
Shite!
You talk about it as if we are in some sort of medieval war!

cam


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2006)

> Ok let me start off by saying that DR/DP is a VALID state of mind. Not many people (if any) find it enjoyable, but if someone honestly wants to stay there then that's their choice.



?Valid? = based on truth or reason; able to be accepted.

DR/DP is based on truth and is to be acceptable? ? Each to their own...

They have choice, that is what it is to be human (free)? but if they chose to believe false information? what does that make them? 



> However I notice all too often this idea that DP is an "Evil sickness" and people want nothing more than to get rid of it. The way is through, not out. The simple fact is you can never just make it go away.


Yes I totally agree with you here, I just made a post in which I labelled ?DR/DP? an enemy, but if you labelled like that you?ll want to fight it? fighting it may not be the right choice to make.



> All illnesses represent an opportunity for growth and learning. To heal yourself you need to understand what caused it in the first place and then change those things on a grass roots level.


Yep, pain does make people stronger in many respects, even helps improve their IQ, but every one needs help, I say that even knowing that I want to go through this on my own and cure in on my own? =S 



> The reason DP seems as though it?s a higher plane is because, well, it sort of is, in a way. Your emotional/mental/energetic/spiritual body is withdrawing from your physical body, without actually severing the connection. So your thoughts are in a sense on a different plane.


This is where my username becomes relevant; I am puppet and the puppeteer; I am one? thought my connections are linked by cables (the puppet?s strings) and so I have a sense of destines between my mind & body. 



> However, this is harmful to us while we are alive on this planet because it does not allow us to experience life. If you want to live a full and healthy life, you have to heal through DP.But by all means, stay in that state for as long as you want - I can 100% assure you that it has much to teach us.


So you agree it?s harmful but also educational? You agree on both sides don?t you? Sorry I assumed you though being DR/DP long-term is ?totally? acceptable?


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2006)

Chameleon, I may be hard to understand because I?m dyslexic, I work with pictures; not words ? so I could end up saying something which doesn?t give a person enough info to understand what I mean, I tend to assume people are mind readers, but I am human and make mistakes.

DR/DP seems to be the body?s own anti anxiety, before DR/DP I was very seriously, now when the world around me seem fake? what can I take seriously any more?

You assume I meant it as some medieval war, each one of us as our own way of viewing DR/DP? I respect their view but I mite question it at times? I would like the same courtesy in return.

Besides that, welcome newb =)


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

Out-of-body experiences are nothing new. But there is no evidence that a person can truly leave their body. It's probably just a hallucination. But if someone could float around outside their body they could make a cool million dollars from Randi the Magician who offers such a prize for having any such powers. For those who think they can leave their body try this simple experiment. Toss a big six-sided dice behind you and let it roll on the floor. Don't look at this dice or catch a reflection of it from a window or mirror. You must not have any clue what the numbered side facing up is. Then leave your body and go check the dice. When you come back to your body see if you were right. Of course you must repeat this experiment several times cause you can have lucky guesses.

Hmmm, didn't the CIA delve into out-of-body experiments as a form of espionage?

I think the reason why Jazzie is questioning dp/dr is because we're not really sure what is causing it. Is it purely psychological? Or is it biochemical in nature? Some people get results from therapy, some don't. Some people get results from drugs, some don't. The fact that most people have eluded a cure makes them wonder what really is causing this altered state. But just sitting around theorizing doesn't get you anywhere. You have to take constructive action. For me it was brought on by stress. But that stress is long gone and I don't obsess about anything consciously (I wonder if we can UNconsciously obsess about something?). I've tried drugs and therapy but nothing worked. So I'm at a loss at why this disorder is still hanging around.


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

8)


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2006)

3098 said:


> Get your mind out of the gutter Emulated Puppert{eer :lol:


Easier said then done.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

You'll all be glad to hear these words: "I give up."

OK, DR/DP isn't an illness. Fine. Enjoy.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> we are just exploring alternatives


Why? I just don't get it.


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

I have tried to stay away from this one, these threads seem to always get ugly.
But when I think about it, its passion that fuels these threads, when someone believes he or she is right they will defend it with, passion.
End of the day, none of you are right, you just have different ways of seeing things, that's all.
Its a futile argument, but its interesting none the less.

Bailee


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Indeed. Passion is good. Especially for those suffering from DP who feel like their emotions have dribbled down a plug hole.

I deliberatly piss people off just to get the old juices flowing. Thats my excuse anyway.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

edit:


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

:roll:


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

Well openminded, have you done anything to develop this theory? If so what way are you going about it?


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Statistically speaking, threads rarely get longer than 4 pages long. That's either because:

a.) Every agrees
b.) Nobody agrees, and finally the spot posting our of sheer exhasperation
c.) Nobody agrees, and they agree to disagree.
d.) People start abusing each other, and the thread is locked or deleted.


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## Jack30 (Apr 27, 2006)

Jas,

Thank you for answering me.


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## lorib64 (Dec 12, 2006)

Emulated Puppet{eer said:


> DR/DP seems to be the body?s own anti anxiety, before DR/DP I was very seriously, now when the world around me seem fake? what can I take seriously any more?


I feel that way sometimes. Like if it's not real I don't have to worry.


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## Cam (Dec 13, 2006)

for me it has had the reverse affect, I feel as if I am more serious now.

And jas, is there any way I can help with your work, any questions or anything, just ask.

Happy to help,

cam


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Emulated Puppet{eer said:


> This is where my username becomes relevant; I am puppet and the puppeteer; I am one? thought my connections are linked by cables (the puppet?s strings) and so I have a sense of destines between my mind & body.


Yes! That's a perfect description of what I was talking about 

The puppeteer you are speaking of is your focus of consciousness. It sits out of the body and controls it from a distance. Why? Because then anything happening to the body can't affect it. But naturally you'll end up feeling disconnected from the world if you live like this.

All I'm saying is that everything is a valid experience and we can learn from every experience. My spiritual beliefs are that on some level we chose to experience this in our lives. Humans have been given the opportunity to plumb the depths of despair and pain. You can stay there and learn as much as you want, because ultimately everything you learn is beneficial to you.

However, it is not until you can heal yourself (Though note I don't mean alone - everyone needs help!) that you can begin to apply what you have learned in beneficial ways to yourself and others.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

poppycock....this is an experience that most people do not have...or would want to have...there is no beneficial thing about it at all...it's like a person who became crippled and tries to see the silver lining in it...there is none


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

ahem....I've been naughty too jasmine


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2006)

We all need to get laid! :lol: I "think" I'm sorted myself... *Blows right hand*


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2006)

CECIL said:


> Emulated Puppet{eer said:
> 
> 
> > This is where my username becomes relevant; I am puppet and the puppeteer; I am one? thought my connections are linked by cables (the puppet?s strings) and so I have a sense of destines between my mind & body.
> ...


Any one wanna interlink cables? :lol: I'll give you a little something called "System Shock" :wink:


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> All I'm saying is that everything is a valid experience and we can learn from every experience. My spiritual beliefs are that on some level we chose to experience this in our lives


That's ALL you're saying? That's like the Americans saying - ' ALL we did is trop a couple of bombs on Japan. Don't you realise the potentially devestating consequences of what you say, particually when people come here in sheer terror and desperation, looking for a way out!! I'm sorry - but I try and restrain myself. But that is up there will the biggest amount of bull I have ever heard of this forum.

CECIL - how do you define a valid experience? Do you mean that everything that happens is valid - good or bad? Including torture, starvation and murder? Yes, I think this has to do with your religous beliefs, and frankly, it makes me want to puke. Hands up how many people 'chose' this illness?

That's it. I'm out of this thread. In a mental health forum where the vast and overwealming majority of people want nothing more than to get rid of this curse, nonsensical polution such as this makes me want to cry for those who have suffered so long. Then we get people, who's judgement is clouded by their 'faith', who propose (no - they know, as is their wont) that it is a _valid _ experience.


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

:roll:


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

:roll:


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2006)

OK I am going to add my 2 cents,

I am not sure if I was given the chose of dp or eternal bliss I would choose dp, but you are right 3098, no one planted this in my mind, it was me who put myself in this state, and I agree, its me who can pull myself back out.
Like martin said in a previous post, we all try to rationalize it, but that is just part of the learning, as Cecil said.

Jamie 8)


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> And further more, psychologically we did choose this, not consciously, whether we like it or not, our mind put us in this state and it can get us back out


It is, indeed, a talent to contradict yourself in one sentence! :wink: Don't worry though, I do it all the time.

So, we unconsciously chose DP did we? A rather sweeping statement. DP, as well know, is caused (let's forget for a second vibrations or whatever) by trauma - be it general psychological trauma, or drugs. DP is a sub/unconscious reaction, entirely out of our control. A primative defence mechanism to protect us. So how could we possibly choose it?



> I am not sure if I was given the chose of dp or eternal bliss I would choose dp


Apart from using the words 'eternal bliss' and DP in the same sentence, how could you possibly even consider having eternal horror (DP) over eternal bliss? Boggled. Boggled I say.


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

:roll:


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2006)

Martin, please read my post again, there is no comma between the words bliss and I, shit, I would take eternal bliss over dp any day.

I think your program is playing up :lol: :lol:

Jamie 8)


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

There is a difference between consciously 'choosing' it, and our unconscious mind 'triggering it'. It's an automatic response.

You see, the implication by using the word 'choosing' gives them impression that the person suffering from the trauma consciously chose to inflict DP on themseleves. That's just baloney, I'm sure you'd agree. Unless you are just playing with semantics of course.



> I am not sure if I was given the chose of dp or eternal bliss I would choose dp


No, I didn't misread you. You said that you 'were not sure' if you would chose DP or eternal bliss, given the 'choice'. It's all there.

But as I said above, it's not a conscious choice at all.


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2006)

......


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

openminded said:


> yes , this is because something has changed in us, it as if something has be switched on, or rather back on.
> here's the thing, when you break everything down to its purist form, you end up with pure energy, it is what we all are, energy.
> Creation is just energy resonating at different frequencies.
> If it vibrates at a slow speed it appears dense, the faster it vibrates, the less solid it appears, until it reaches speeds at which we cannot see it anymore.
> ...


Thanks for directing me to this post Jasmine, I think it is a plausible explanation, I have similar thought processes at times but to be honest I try to block them as I just end up more confused.

Maybe I don't really want to know what 'this' is, maybe 'this' is just too much for me to understand.

If my brain is a computer then the computer says noooo *cough*

zbohem x


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

siouxsie said:


> If my brain is a computer then the computer says noooo *cough*


LOL :lol:

I am still interested if any other members have had out of body experiences.

Jas


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

I have once, but I don't think that was due to dp. I pretty much overdosed on painkillers when I had a dental absess.

I'm positive I was on the brink of death, it was the scariest experience of my life.

But like I said, not related to dp as far as I know.

zbohem x


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## Cam (Dec 13, 2006)

DP is a defence mechanism, nothing more, nothing less.
It can be treated.


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