# Free agency



## yoyo (Aug 24, 2005)

Many wonders why, if there is a God, He allows that bad things such as war, storms, hurricane etc, happen. Well, the answer to this question is simple. We, humans, create the most of it by our bad choices. War is often a product of bad political choices. God can not be held responsible for
our bad choices. He can not either stop ( note that He has the power though) the pain that is caused by our imperfection or unrighthousness. We have our free agency, and free agency is essential to happiness. Only in some individual cases, God can cure someone or stop pain, but not on general basic. Otherwise, God would stop being God, and that is not possible.

Storms are caused bye pollution that we ,humans, are responsible for. God does not send these trials, but He allows that they happen. However, it is not excluded that He sometimes makes it occur. There is though always a reason for it, something greater is coming out of it.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

I think youre right.All of 2days world problems are man made or a result of natural disasters,not brought about by vengeful gods,but by chance.Greed and power has the world in the miserable condition its in;we in the first world are shielded from the real issues of war,starvation,poverty,disease etc.Its always been that way from time immomorial,and as far as i can see,will remain the same.there are always those who seek power,and whose insatiable greed filters through to the world economy causing a framework that deprives billions of people basic human rights.Why god allows the GREED gene to manifest itself in this way is a major question that theologians must address.Otherwise our species is doomed.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

What about earthquakes, volcanoes ?


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

definitely the work of a vengeful god.or maybee his twin brother,the devil.


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## yoyo (Aug 24, 2005)

As I tried to explain, God can not stop all pain and suffering, disasters, etc. Suffering is an essential element in order to get experience and knowledge. Without pain, there is no happiness. Pain has to remain, because it is the opposite of happiness. If we do not feel pain, then we can not possibly know what happiness is. It is then impossible to be happy. Free agency, free will, is the ground on which happiness is build. If there is no free agency, no free will, then there is no happiness. I can not possibly imagine to feel happiness when I am always and permanently forced to do things. Humans have their free will, their free agency. They can choose things that are goods or things that are evils. When someone chooses something that is good, then that person feels joy about it. It makes everyone else happy. Nobody feel sad about it. Nobody feel pain. But when someone makes a bad choice, it creates disapointment and pain. The person that chosed wrong gets consequently less freedom, because of its bad choice. The bad choice creates pain in the environnement. Somebody else might be affected by that bad choice. God can not stop oss from making bad choices. He would never take away our free will. Consequently, He can not stop the pain occuring by bad choices.
Whay I said now does not mean that God in some special situations may help someone or help an entire group of persons in order to avoid a tragedy. Christ did make miracles, because of the great faith that was shown by people.

God is not unfair, only men are.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

Sure happiness can't exist without pain. Then when we die and go to heaven, a place that by definition can have no pain/suffering/evil, we will be miserable because there will not be the pain necessary to balance our lives.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

An eternity of any human consciousness would drive anyone crazy,heaven or hell.I think the notion of reincarnation fits humanity the best,because of the valve of consciousness between lives we pass thru,that makes us forget our past lives.This stops us going mad.Thats the way I hope it is anyway,Im comming back in my next life as a pro footballer who retires and does commentry during games.Not George Best thou!!


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Sure happiness can't exist without pain. Then when we die and go to heaven, a place that by definition can have no pain/suffering/evil, we will be miserable because there will not be the pain necessary to balance our lives.


Absolutely fansatsic Scattered. Nice one.


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## yoyo (Aug 24, 2005)

Scattered, You need to read my topic again. I do not think you understood what I wrote. When you go to heaven, you already through your experiences on earth felt misery and pain. You already know what pain is in order to understand happiness. It does not mean that you have to feel misery in the kingdom of God in order to feel happiness. There is oppostion in everything, but the opposition does not need to be present at the same place lol.

Martinelv, are you so unhappy? Do not you know that iniquity never has been happiness?


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