# DP, Sexuality and Morality



## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

Hey, this is a continuation of my other thread. I recommend you read that one first so that you compare your symptoms with the ones I had and see if your case is similar and this may be of help. Also, I wrote about quite a few things that you can do before you try these things that im going to talk about now.

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/27199-how-i-healed-my-self/

This are also some very good meditative techniques that helped me out:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/27222-meditative-techniques-that-helped-me-out

specially good is the Music meditation.

Sometimes to pierce through the DP mental fog, you need to get in touch with that part of you which is suffering, you need to let go of pride and shame and get in touch with the vulnerable, sensitive you which is under a lot of pain, and not be afraid to feel that sadness, to let it out. For me DP had to do not with my lack of feelings and emotions, but with my fear of their intensity. This technique i found was very helpful in allowing me to feel again. Once you liberate and accept those blue feelings,you ll find that you are still there, underneath the mental chaos and the suffering. 
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Also, another very important thing, for those who are kind of stuck with this whole 'Non-being' as expounded by Eastern traditions, I recommend you read this other thread:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/27187-the-buddhist-lie/

*You can skip this part if this is not a problem with you.*
Buddha *did not* deny Soul. This are taken from the earliest buddhist suttras (scriptures)

Atta'sarana anan'n'asarana.--"Soul as a refuge with none other as refuge" DN 2.100 
"Atta' ca me so saranam gati ca" --"The Soul is the refuge that I have gone unto" 
Jatakapali 1441 Akkhakandam 
"Soul the refuge (Saran.am.attano)"-- DN 2.120 
Jataka-2 #1341 "tattha atta' va sarathi" ----"the Soul is Charioteer"

The Soul is also reffered as "Most dear, the Light, the only refuge" [DN 2.100, AN 4.97]

The only place in Suttra where the word NO-SOUL (Natthatta)is used, is in reference to Annihilationists/nihilists, which Buddha himself called them heretics, and had this to say:

"Those who deny the Soul (the nihilists/annihilationists) go to terrible hell, from darkness to darkness"[SN 1.96].

There is NEVER a NON-SOUL Doctrine, but a not-soul doctrine which points out those things Soul IS NOT (Anatta), in a neti neti (via negativa) approach to truth.

So why do modern Buddhists defend this so-called Anatta doctrine? There's always been rivalry between Buddhism and Hinduism (both being born out of India). The main point of dispute is this, that Buddhist deny Atman (Soul), while Hinduism is based in belief in Atman. Now, Buddha lived in a time in northern India when people had forgotten the true mystic interpretations of the Vedas, and were becoming ever more dependent on Brahmins, caste systems, and giving too much importance to lesser hindu gods. Buddha said himself 'I have re-discovered an ancient path'; he was refering to the Vedas. True ancient Buddhism is nothing more than Hinduism. Buddha never wrote down his metaphysical beliefs. Because all was already writen in the Vedas. On the few ocassions that he makes reference to metaphysics (as quoted from earliest texts), he clearly adheres to belief in Soul, Atman. He even goes on to say that those who deny soul, go to terrible hell, from darkness to darkness. Now, if Modern Buddhists today were to 'accept' this truth, the whole of Buddhism will collapse and lose its identity, because it will be exposed for what it is: One of the many interpretations of the Vedic, hindu tradition, not a religion on its own.

For people with DP, you have to realize that Modern Buddhism is the ultimate nihilistic trojan horse. It is suicide disguised as spirituality. In fact, most buddhists would simply commit physical suicide (as they see existence as inherently bound to suffering), if it were not for the belief that it would be pointless as they are bound to re-incarnate. So they embark themselves on a sad trip towards annihilation of Soul, which will bear no fruits other than great misery. I sincerely recommend anyone here who is suffering with DP and suscribing to Buddhist, or any non-ego, or non-soul beliefs to challenge this views and see wether they are good for you. Be your own Buddha.

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Having said that, I want to talk about... the nervous system and chakras.

I do not hold a materialistic worldview. This is a view where Matter creates Mind. If you suscribe to this view, mind/feelings/sexuality, etc, are an accidental product of pshyisical, impersonal, causal laws of matter. I believe that Mind creates Matter. I believe only Mind to be absolute. However, for those who are more comfortable with science, I would like to share the following lecture, which compares chakras, subtle energies, etc, with differnt parts of the nervous system.






Now, a lot of research has been showing that the Brain is not the only conscious part of the nervous system. The enteric nervous system, located in the gut, has been found to process emotional memories. It is also responsible for the production of 90% of body's serotonin, which plays a key role in mind-states. Also, the pituitary gland is known to produce DMT, which is a powerful halucinogen. Mystics call this the third eye, as an activation of this gland opens one's mind to the Spirit world, to Mind.

Also, here is a video that shows how there is cientific research linking mystical experiences with activation of different parts of brain with magnetic stimulation.






Another thing to consider, is evolution, and how it works. Evolution builds up on already existing structures. The brain is an overlapping of several brains, some of which are remains from our evolutionary past, such as the reptilian brain. The fronto-temporal-lobe is the new-kid in the block: the rational mind, the thinking mind. To identify with such is a big problem as well, there is a lot more going on in your brain than that. What im trying to suggest here is that there are unconscious parts of you, that are there wether you observe them/accept them or not. Where they are, if in Brain, or Enteric Nervous System, does not really matter, as the experience of it is psychological and not physical/scientific. I will talk about two very important parts that I think are repressed in DP, namely The Shadow (Evil side) and the Anima/Animus (Feminine/Masculine, depending wether you are man/woman respectively).










now, I do not want to get into Taoism. You do not need to read the Tao Te Ching (which is a total mindfuck while on DP) to derive wisdom from this symbol. Just a few things about it: the small dots are meant to be seeds. The opposites are not divided by a straight line but a curvaceous one, that suggests movement/flux in a clock-wise direction.

Now, which are the opposites that one can think about relating to self, or Mind?

Good and Evil
Masculine and Feminine
Being and not-being
Conscious and Unconscious

It is my belief that while on DP, Evil feelings/emotions are repressed, which due to its inter-dependence with Good also ends up blocking good feelings.
Feminine qualities are repressed in men, which also reduces masculinity. And opposite in women.
Unconscious is very repressed. Fear of the unconscious mind. Over-dependence on rationality.
Being is repressed. Fear of being. Belief of non-being (Eastern religion) to be more true than Being.










This are the chakras. Note the elements attributed to the lower chakras. We need only to care about the lower three: The root chakra (Earth), deals with basic, primitive emotions such as fear, hatred, and deals with individuality, to separate one-self from environment. I believe people with DP has hit spiritual rock bottom and are experiencing a root-chakra consciousness which is also quite damaged/blocked.
The sacral chakra (Water) deals with sexuality, sensual love, beauty, libido. In DP, this is greatly reduced and becomes stagnated. The Solar Plexus Chakra (Fire), this is the chakra of Self, of will-power, creativity. In DP, it is shut.










This is a basic model of Jungs psychologal approach to Mind. In DP, the Ego loses its Persona, its mask, its identity, that which it used to interact with the world with. Without it, it is lost, afraid. Now, instead of desperately seeking to re-build personality, Jung invites people to undergo an inner journey, in order to reach the Higher Self. This is an alchemical process Jung calls Individuation. Alchemy is the Western mystic tradition were psychological/spiritual lead is turned into gold, by a process of *uniting opposites*. This reminds us of the Taoist symbol.

Tarot cards, are alchemical symbols. Tarot card number 16, is called the Tower.










When one has reached this stage, the Tower (Persona), collapses. That identity which you built for yourself crumbles down. You enter what Jung would call, the Desert. That is DP.

Now, the good news is, card number 17, is: The Star, the Soul. Another symbol of it is the Lion eating the Sun. Here the adept stops seeking for enlightenment outside and realizes that he can look for it inside, which reminds one of the Cosmos and micro-cosmic view 'as above, so below'... which is a fancy way of saying 'all answers can be found within'.










now, note the water symbolism = sacral chakra = sexuality, sensual love, Venus.

Following cards are 18: The moon, which deals with feelings. and number 19: The SUN, the SELF.

So, DP is good, this is really a step in spiritual enlightenment, in getting closer to Self which is above person. *BUT, only if you get out of it*, not if you continue with this annihilation of self that is the result of *mis-interpreting *Eastern Philosophies. (New Age mind-fuckers such as Eckart Tollie should also be avoided... id like to suggest a title for his next book: 'The Power of silence' oh wait, i think he already wrote that... maybe he can learn a thing or two from it! hehe im so wity








. no really, fuck eckart tollie)

So, this how i understood my DP:

Through repression of sexuality (due to inhibitions in response to close-minded society), Feminine nature (in men, oppposite in women), the 'waters' of sensuality, of soul, become stagnated. The psychic energy begins to rott, and the 'fumes' of this rise to mind and create the mind-fog, excessive, chaotic thinking, weird images, DP/DR, etc. This creates a primal fear response which blocks the root chakra, furthering the blockage of energy. The sexual energy stagnates even further, increasing rotten 'fumes' that are perceived as DP/DR/anxiety/ruminations in mind. The repression of 'low', Dark emotions/feelings such as hatred, evilness, rage, are repressed too because of society impossed Morality. This prevents one from overcoming that fear and re-oppening the chakra to release libido staganation.

How does one solve the situation?

Now, we have a very high image of ourselves. I remember, evein in DP, inspite of all my frustration, shame, guilt, etc. I did not allow my self to feel angry, to feel angry at life, at myself, at drugs, at the psychiatrist, at god, etc. To really start to recover, you need to let go of such Pride, and allow yourself to feel 'lower' emotions. You will need this as 'base metals' for your alchemical creation of gold.

*Now, before you try this: I remind you that this is a technique that I discovered and that helped me with my DP. I am not a health professional so if you do this, do it at own risk.*

1) Before going ito this, it is useful to let go of some excess anger by say, going up a hill with a baseball bat breaking a few wooden chairs. You might not feel this, but you start by acting it out. Then, I assure you, a LOT of anger will come out, and you will get possesed by it. Do not repress it. Let it out. At least try punching your pillow, anything.. you are not Jesus, you are not Ghandi. Its ok to be angry, you lost your f**king self!









2) One goes deep into 'low' emotions such as hatred and general evilness in order to get control of fear, by transforming it into said emotions. By embracing the Shadow, and accepting it, one lets go of fear, as the Beast is fearless itself. You stop identifying witht the victim and realize that you have great power inside you. This opens the root chakra. For this, you make sure you are alone in your house. You turn off lights, and you play a very, very dark, evil tune on your headphones (I have some very intense ones, just ask on private and I'll send... but they are quite sick you might not want to talk to me again







) Now, dive into the evilness. Dive into the madness, that low low energy, it is sickening, you are sick, you are a very, very disturbed person. You let that out, you explore it. You dive in. You go deep. Let all that shit out.
This might be a very, *very* intense experience, you will see things, emotions which can be very very frightening. again, do it at own risk.

You can first start with things like Rage agains the Machine (hehe fuck the system!), and then progress into death metal, etc. You first need to start with feelings like anger and hate, before you move on to pure evilness.

If you try this and see it works, and you want to go even deeper, you can write to me and ask for some very dark and insane psychedelic trance tunes. which are for advanced demons only!









once again, *do this at own risk*. Better still, first read my first thread to compare your symtptoms to mine. One key difference might be, i did not have a constant DR 24/7, it went up and down depending on anxiety and other factors (though weird perception of colors/images was almost constant). Although I was diagnosed with DPD by my psychiatrist, and felt identified by what I read on books/websites, it might just be the case that I had something different and you are wasting your time here. Lets hope not!









3) After a while, you try get used to that stage. Try it every day or so. You will not only lose fear of it, but the nastiness will reduce a bit. It is just the first few 'ventings' which are fucked up. Now, in that evil state, you apply sensual love to the Shadow, you let yourself to not only accept this part of you, but to enjoy it, to fully embrace it. To see it through a loving gaze, much like a Mother loves his child even if he is naughty. You allow yourself to like that part of you. This 'magical ingredient', will turn the Beast, into... guess what? Your Anima! your feminine Soul (opposite for ladies). You will feel a very powerful, sexual energy posses you. This is time to touch yourself. to increase sensuality, to explore your sensuality, to let it free. This will release the stagnation, and you will soon find that the DP/DR/anxiety, mental fog, etc, goes away.

4) You will also find that sensual energy then turns into emotions/feelings of love (tarot card number 18. Feelings are the 'lubricant' of the body and mind. you will be at ease, you be with yourself again.

Now, this worked for me, and my DP might have been different to yours in some elemental way.

I will add more insights on sexuality and how to heal it, so keep coming back to this thread.
Also will talk about a very powerful healing tool: working with dreams, and lucid dreaming. And finally making the leap of faith into the spirit world: Synchronicities, lucid living and Ayahuasca.

I remind you, this is just *my personal experience * with DP and *i am not *a health profressional. just in case one of you goes nuts with this and i end up in jail









I hope this helps









Much love
Abraxas


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## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

I have tried accepting the shadow of me a bit. I find it easier than the sexuality and the masculine side of me. what helped was identifying with the "witch" archetype...imagining myself as a witch, etc, being silly about it.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2011)

great topic Ab!

was an interesting read. I agree with you very much on us needing to heal the three lower chakras.

Lucid dreaming is so very fascinating.. i have had OBE's right after lucid dreaming. Sometimes they lead to sleep paralysis.. have you experienced that? at first it was awful but now i surrender and slowly come out of that.

You are so interested in metaphysics..







did you take any courses?


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## Paige (Apr 27, 2011)

babybowrain said:


> I have tried accepting the shadow of me a bit. I find it easier than the sexuality and the masculine side of me. what helped was identifying with the "witch" archetype...imagining myself as a witch, etc, being silly about it.


Same, except exchange masculine for feminine.

I more identify with the Fool archetype, and I don't mean that in a bad way. The fool just plays a fool but meanwhile they have shelter and know all about the kingdom (okay bad example).

I think the problem with accepting my shadow is I associate all those parts of myself with my abusers and thus I feel like it's an infected part of me and wouldn't be there otherwise (or at least would be different). True or not though, I've been doing better with this. I try to think of it this way with my flaws, for example I can be a master manipulator if I want to be. But the fact that I resist, in and of itself, is a sign of strength, not weakness. Making friends with the parts of me that can manipulate, that are less moral, hedonistic and all that has given me lots of freedom. There is no longer a war and no longer denial of anything that possibly marks me as 'bad' or 'evil' (I was called evil a lot by one of my abusers so that sticks with me). Capability is not the same as actually doing it.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I love your posts.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I have been trying to work with my dark side for a while now, it's tricky as there is so much power in those lower emotions like rage, jealousy and hate but I don't want them to take over and become a dominant part of my character and there are certain people like my younger brother who I don't want to pollute with those emotions, so it's hard working with those states and being around other people socially.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

babybowrain said:


> I have been trying to work with my dark side for a while now, it's tricky as there is so much power in those lower emotions like rage, jealousy and hate but I don't want them to take over and become a dominant part of my character and there are certain people like my younger brother who I don't want to pollute with those emotions, so it's hard working with those states and being around other people socially.


I think better to let go of that fear, as the only way those low, 'shadow' emotions can take over is by them remaining unconscious. as they are still there, regardless of you looking at them or not.. best to see what the Shadow is 'cooking up'. After accepting shadow, you will see it becomes less 'dark', and more like a Trickster/naughty figure. The shadow is a great source of creativity and good humor. it takes a much more 'down to earth' approach to daily issues and worries. And makes sure you are being genuine, with yourself and others. sometimes you do things cause 'thats what a good guy would do', but deep down sometimes you dont really care about such a thing. Shadow reminds you of that. Hey, you're not Ghandi, stop worrying so much about others! stop carrying the weight of the whole world on your back!
and that would include your little brother. there is no such thing as 'emotional pollution', there is nothing in you that is not in your brother too. plus, the more you 'vent' these emotions, the less they become a permanent quality of your character.

Peace

Abraxas


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## PenguinSpin (Apr 26, 2011)

I don't understand how people can take Jung serious. The anima/animus concept is basically the same thing as the defense mechanism known as 'splitting', except, you know, less sexist.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Abraxas said:


> I think better to let go of that fear, as the only way those low, 'shadow' emotions can take over is by them remaining unconscious. as they are still there, regardless of you looking at them or not.. best to see what the Shadow is 'cooking up'. After accepting shadow, you will see it becomes less 'dark', and more like a Trickster/naughty figure. The shadow is a great source of creativity and good humor. it takes a much more 'down to earth' approach to daily issues and worries. And makes sure you are being genuine, with yourself and others. sometimes you do things cause 'thats what a good guy would do', but deep down sometimes you dont really care about such a thing. Shadow reminds you of that. Hey, you're not Ghandi, stop worrying so much about others! stop carrying the world of the whole world on your back!
> and that would include your little brother. there is no such thing as 'emotional pollution', there is nothing in you that is not in your brother too. plus, the more you 'vent' these emotions, the less they become a permanent quality of your character.
> 
> Peace
> ...


That is some good advice there thanks, that is exactly what I need to do.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

PenguinSpin said:


> I don't understand how people can take Jung serious. The anima/animus concept is basically the same thing as the defense mechanism known as 'splitting', except, you know, less sexist.


I disagree. The psychological term 'splitting' is used in reference to the ego, as seen for example in some personality disorders (narcissistic, borderline). In this pathological state, a person who does not accept opposing pychic/sexual/moral impulses, splits these and they become un-integrated.

In Jungs psychic model, the Anima, Shadow, Wise Old Man, Goddess, Hero, Child, Trickster, and other archetypes, are autonomic, independent 'complexes' that are common to all mankind and are not integrated as a status quo, simply because they never belonged to the ego-consciousness to start with, as they belong to the collective unconscious. They are unconscious by nature, not as a result pathological repression.

I think the only way to 'take Jung seriously' is to have a direct confrontation with the collective unconscious, and experience the nature and reality of Archetypes first hand. Its no more different than 'taking Buddha seriously'... While Freudian/common psychology is the psychology of the Ego (and its personal unconscious, where thigs like 'splitting' may take place, as a pathological condition), Jungian psychology is the psychology of the Self (and the collective unconscious, where the Archetypes are un-integrated as a status quo, and it is the job of the 'hero' to descend into the Unconscious and confront these Archetypes, in order to shift center of being from Ego/Persona to Self, ie, to become Individuated). In this last view, Anima is much more than a mere repressed impulse. It is very much alive and independent from ego-consciousness... not just a simple pathological compartimentalization of mind.


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## nectarios82 (Sep 9, 2013)

sounds pretty satanic to me


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