# THE CURE !



## Guest (Jan 21, 2005)

Hello everyone. I am a new member here and would like to shed some light on all of you. DP/DR both 'work' hand in hand with anxiety. IF you get rid of most of your anxiety, DP/DR will go away as well.

IF YOU DON'T THINK OF YOUR ANXIETY IT WILL GO AWAY YOU ARE WRONG!

THIS IS THE CURE FOR ANXIETY...THE REAL CURE PEOPLE!

http://healmind.com/saitotherapy/howcureanxsaito.htm

I took extacy by mistake 3 months ago and I was suffering from DR ever since. I was getting anxiety attacks because I had DR. I never had an anxiety problem I knew of before that, but I suffered from panic attacks. I was obsessed with finding out what I had. I thought I had OCD for a while because of the extent of research I was doing. And at the end, all I did was fuel the anxiety that I never had.

So back to my point. If you forget about your anxiety just for 2 days, eat at nights and take 100 mg of 5-HTP every night, I am telling you IT WILL GO AWAY. Don't waist your lives! It is way to short to suffer from a simple 'trick on the mind'.

I'll be glad to answer any questions I can from my experience. So don't be shy tp PM me.

S.


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## kenc127 (Aug 10, 2004)

It's just not that simple. But thank you for your input and well meaning.

Ken


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## JasonFar (Aug 13, 2004)

Ken is right, of course, it's not that simple by any means.

I do take 5-HTP though, and it has worked very well with me, in combination with St. John's Wort.

Unfortunately we are too complex of personalities for it to be that simple, I thinks.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

I have DR when I have no anxiety. What kind of name is acidmale69?! How could I take a post so seriously with a name like that?


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## danny (Sep 2, 2004)

Quote off the website for part of the cure

'Do not ask for help when you are suffering from anxiety attacks'

So suffering alone is better than asking for help!!! :shock: 
im sorry, but i disagree with you. I also, like university girl, often have dp without any underlying anxiety.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Japanese version of Mr Linden by the looks of it. Its good advice to ignore symptoms, but it'll come back to bite you on the bum if you don't sort out the cause


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

I think its much better way of looking at it, rather than believing in some sort of scary mysterious disorder. Dp/dr is a normal, healthy product of anxiety and the sooner a person realizes it the sooner a person can focus on the real problem..anxiety. I know people say they hae dp/dr without anxiety but in my opinion thats a little bit of an illusion. A person can become "adjusted" to a chronic anxiety state, and after a while not even realize you are in one.

Joe


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2005)

Its helpful to just view this problem as anxiety, although that isn't entirely the case for many of us here. If 'acidmale69' managed to erase his dpdr in 3 months then it must have been so mild that it WAS just anxiety.

acidmale69 = guy trying to get more hits to the website he linked


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## lone wolf (Aug 10, 2004)

dakotajo said:


> I know people say they hae dp/dr without anxiety but in my opinion thats a little bit of an illusion. A person can become "adjusted" to a chronic anxiety state, and after a while not even realize you are in one.


I'm aware of this possibility and have tried to see if I still suffer from anxiety, but I have come to think that it really may be possible to have DP/DR without any underlying anxiety. (?) It is because when I e.g. drink too much coffee and am stressed for some reason, the caffeine overdose easily gives me a chance to feel what real anxiety feels - and it is an altogether different feeling than my usual peaceful DR'd state of mind. Thus I hardly think I suffer from anxiety, cuz how can I feel anxiety while being happy for example? However, I realize the only case this anxiety hypothesis might be true, is the possibility that I have anxiety - or more correctly, utter fear - BUT it is dissociated inside me, and thus I never even feel it but only the outcome of it, which is chronic DR 24/7.

Any ideas - does this sound reasonable? I'm curious. :shock:


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Ninnu said:


> Any ideas - does this sound reasonable? I'm curious. :shock:


the way i see it anxiety is caused by GABA that can't quiet down all the excitatory neurotransmitters in your brain. Serotonin mitigates the actions of GABA, so if you're low, you'll have constant anxiety no matter what, even when you're momentarily feeling happy. drinking coffee is not really anxiety it's a cortisol/adrenaline rush that last for a few minutes.

5-HTP works for me. This "cure" is so the Linden Method, but at least whoever posted it is not trying to charge $180 bucks for it :roll: . -rula


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## lone wolf (Aug 10, 2004)

rula said:


> the way i see it anxiety is caused by GABA that can't quiet down all the excitatory neurotransmitters in your brain. Serotonin mitigates the actions of GABA, so if you're low, you'll have constant anxiety no matter what, even when you're momentarily feeling happy. drinking coffee is not really anxiety it's a cortisol/adrenaline rush that last for a few minutes.


Thanks for your reply, rula. I wish I was more knowledgeable regarding brain chemistry - I have always had more interest toward the psychological side of things. 

I don't know about that coffee high though - sometimes it feels like anxiety for me, and in those cases the anxious feelings last more than minutes, usually a couple of hours till the effect of caffeine subsides. This doesn't happen every time though, but only in the situations while I seem to be stressed bc of some reason. Commonly I get only pleasant caffeine high from coffee, while I feel energized and happy - it is the reason why I won't stop drinking coffee.

I don't believe I have anything wrong with my serotonin levels, as my depression (which lasted for about ten years' time) vanished completely since I started taking Remeron 30 mg. Thus nowadays I feel like a normal, happy person with usual ups and downs, without any feelings of depression/anxiety - the only thing that I still live with is chronic DP/DR.

Indeed - I do not know what anxiety feels like, if it isn't anxiety what I feel during "bad caffeine trip". Any ideas? :?:


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Ninnu said:


> Commonly I get only pleasant caffeine high from coffee, while I feel energized and happy - it is the reason why I won't stop drinking coffee.


been there Ninnu...just right now i was listening to my radiator hiss and thinking damn! only if that was the sound of my cappuccino machine  . that energy you get from the coffee is actually your body's defense mechanism kicking in to fight the "stress" you're adding to it. it does last for hours sometimes, you're absolutely right. problem is all that coritsol your body uses up to fight coffee/sugar or whatever evenually becomes depleted. when adrenaline wins the fight, your brain's neurotransmitters become unbalanced.

I too at the beginning didn't beleive i had anxiety, just dp. i was so convinced that i wasn't depressed either. but then i had a lab test out my neurotrasmitters, and i had all the typical results of a person with high anxiety/low sero.



> Indeed - I do not know what anxiety feels like, if it isn't anxiety what I feel during "bad caffeine trip". Any ideas? :?:


it is technically anxiety, but that's the "normal" every day type. 
chronic DP anxiety (for me) is when bright lights/loud noises/TV/crowds bug me out for no really good reason (other than whacked out neurotrasmitters). but i'm so used to it now that i don't get palpitations, numbness, chest pain or none of that other stuff any more.

does that make any sense??? -ru


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2005)

Are you selling bibles too?


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi Rula,

Can you explain to me more on your thoughts about the serotonin-gaba connection? From what I gather you are saying that serotonin directly influences gaba? I realize its all theories but what Ive read says the opposite. Ive read that gaba is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain and controls the output(so to speak) of neurotransmitters such as serotonin and adrenaline. Benzos and alcohol potentiate the effects of gaba and damp down the flow of vital neurotransmitters. Its the reason why people using them chronically are usually depressed and the reason why these drugs are considered depressants. Its also the reason why long term use of either drug eventually aggravates anxiety/depressive problems.
People who have become addicted to benzos or alcohol through the process of tolerance, have a gaba to receptor attraction problem and so excitatory neurotransmitters go unchecked in withdrawal. Its the reason why people who withdraw can have severe seizures due to the massive rebound electrical activity.


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## lone wolf (Aug 10, 2004)

rula said:


> I too at the beginning didn't beleive i had anxiety, just dp. i was so convinced that i wasn't depressed either. but then i had a lab test out my neurotrasmitters, and i had all the typical results of a person with high anxiety/low sero.


Hi rula - though I haven't been done the test you say, I could say that bc of my past experience of depression I'm pretty sure I don't have it anymore. I suffered from severe depression for about 10 years, and it was a constant hell for me - I couldn't find work, nor try to get into university/other school. Nowadays I can study full-time and also enjoy my hobbies, though often I'm just too lazy after the lectures/school stuff that instead of playing to violin/drawing new pics I just read a novel/watch TV/hang in here in this message board. But all in all - I think I know what depression is and I feel not having a trace of it anymore. And it is bc of the miracle drug mirtazapine, I'm so glad I was prescribed Remeron a couple of years ago. 

However, I'm aware that I still have some issues going on and one of them is my inner, quiet distrust toward my future/friends. I have a background of teasing in my childhood, and I think that's why I have difficulties to trust that the friends of mine really like my company. And about the future thingy: as I have never had a full-time job before, I'm afraid never getting one after I've finished my studies in the near future. I think the latter fear is just normal, but my inner distrust toward friendship isn't like that IMO. Actually I'm pretty sure that if I could really trust my friendships - like I trust my boyfriend and family members - I might get rid of DR with time.

I guess this problem of mine will need just some active thought work - and I believe time has a healing capasity, possibly even more than any therapy can offer. So I'm not desperate...


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

dakotajo said:


> Hi Rula,
> 
> Can you explain to me more on your thoughts about the serotonin-gaba connection? From what I gather you are saying that serotonin directly influences gaba?


you're are mostly correct, except in one step. Serotonin does directly mitigate GABA actions, not the other way around. GABA works on excitatory NTs only, epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine. that's the reason why SSRI's are prescribed to boost serotonin levels first before they get the patient off tranquilizers. they normally assume 4-5 week for SSRI's to kick in, which is a safe time frame for benzo use, then you don't need them any more to potentiate GABA action, serotonin can now do that.

what i don't get is why use dangerous a/d's instead of 5-HTP or St. John's. less money for the pharmaceutical companies??



> People who have become addicted to benzos or alcohol through the process of tolerance, have a gaba to receptor attraction problem and so excitatory neurotransmitters go unchecked in withdrawal. Its the reason why people who withdraw can have severe seizures due to the massive rebound electrical activity.


absolutely. and it's for the same reason that i can't right now watch TV even though i'm not in Benzo withdrawal, i just have super high adrenaline levels. my exicitatory NT's behind my retina are in over drive. epileptics also have GABA defficiencies, so flashing lights can cause them seisures by the same mechanism.

btw, i love all your anti-benzo posts, were you ever on the benzo forum?

-rula


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2005)

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have DP/DR without anxiety people! It is all in your minds!!!


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

can someone say.. kakamaymee? :roll:


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi Rula,

Im curious what you mean about the excitatory nt's behing your retinas? Do you see flashing lights, sparks, and other weird debris? I have experienced all of these things after benzo withdrawal but never before the drugs. They were chronic for over 2 years. It was if it took years for my gaba to right itself. What do you feel is causing your excitatory nt's to be so high.

Also, this may be a stupid quiestion, but Id like somebody to explain the relationship between adrenaline that we have in our body and what is in the brain. Our bbb does allow these nts to "mix", correct. I want to understand why when I would excersise or even eat a large meal, I experienced an adrenaline release that made me feel so bad mentally? I would get severe heart palpitations then I would feel terribly mentally?

Joe


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

acidmale69 said:


> It is IMPOSSIBLE to have DP/DR without anxiety people! It is all in your minds!!!


Me doubts this as I know first hand my DR exists with NO ANXIETY. Thank you.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2005)

uni g, so you are saying that your dr produces no fear in you? or that it never did? so what is it doing to you , jut annoying you?


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

dakotajo said:


> Hi Rula,
> 
> Im curious what you mean about the excitatory nt's behing your retinas? Do you see flashing lights, sparks, and other weird debris? I have experienced all of these things after benzo withdrawal but never before the drugs. They were chronic for over 2 years. It was if it took years for my gaba to right itself. What do you feel is causing your excitatory nt's to be so high.


yep, i see flashing lights; but my biggest problem is watching TV or being in really bright places. anything that causes too neuron activity to be fired off in the brain makes me feel weird.



> I want to understand why when I would excersise or even eat a large meal, I experienced an adrenaline release that made me feel so bad mentally? I would get severe heart palpitations then I would feel terribly mentally?
> 
> Joe


the root of the problem is diet. adrenaline is released for many reasons as i'm sure you know, fear/worries/stress/excessive exercise/anger/bad diet (sugar, refined foods, caffeine, drugs, alcohol, which also deplete serotonin)...healthy bodies getting the right nutrients and enough SLEEP can make enough cortisol to fix things, but after a while the adrenal glands can't keep up, then all of the sudden you have too much adrenaline all the time and your body can't do anything about it so you get palpitations/pupils dialate/numb hands and feet. and now you have too much of it in your brain, and not enough serotonin/GABA to fight it. yea, too much exercise when you're DP'ed is bad. been there too


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2005)

The worst i've ever felt in my entire life was after a 10 mile bike ride through the hills of pittsburgh. I was so completely gone afterwards for about an hour that I really thought about smashing my face into something pointy.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

yea i can relate to what you and joe are talking about rula. at lunch i totally overate cause i skipped breakfast.. and then i made the mistake of strolling around kmart. alls i know is that i ended up trying to fight off a major panic attack next to the martha stewart gardenhoses. :shock:

at first everything started looking terribly DR'ed.. i felt like i wasnt in my body for a bit.. then i felt that surge of evil energy that can only mean one thing.. panic.

i know it was cause i overate.. plus i had pigged out on little ceasers stuffed cheese bread.. and i think im alergic to it cause evertime after i eat it i get an itchy rash around my chin. i know that panic attacks and dp episodes can be triggered by alergies.


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## luke1979 (Aug 20, 2004)

i cant be assed reading the whole thread, but i got the jist of it.
dp effects diff people for diff reasons, some it's from anxiety, some from depression and other psychologial conditions, some have it from psychical conditions.
i cant see there being 1 cure for all of this, theres too many seperate conditions for it to be that simple.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi rula,

I guess my question is still about the difference between the adrenaline thats in our blood and what is in our brain. For the most part, I feel great, but when I excersise too hard or eat a huge meal(Ive read different places that adrenaline is released during digestion), I get palpitations and anxiety afterwards. I feel like Im buzzed up on a powerful stimulant. In a little while it wears off and I feel great again.

From my understanding the nts that are in our blood never enter the brain. Thats why they say taking gaba supplements is a total waste of money. Taking 5htp is understandable because its only a precursor and does cross the bbb where its converted to serotonin. All of the nts in the brain are "made" there. If this is the case, why does the adrenaline thats released into our blood effect us mentally? Why do they treat anxiety disorders with drugs like effexor that increase both serotonin and adrenaline? Ive never had an adrenaline problem my whole life until I messed up my brain with benzos and I cant imagine taking a drug that would increase adrenaline any where in my body.

Joe


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Also, why are adrenaline levels so high in drug withdrawal? Why does adrenaline seem to be the highest in the early morning. A person would think a persons chemical balance would be best after a good nights sleep? I wish I understood this stuff.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

dakotajo said:


> Hi rula,
> 
> I guess my question is still about the difference between the adrenaline thats in our blood and what is in our brain.


joe, you're right adrenaline in the blood and the epinephrine in the brain aren't really the same thing, adrenaline doesn't cross the bbb. i beleive (i'm not a doctor, i only have a google medical degree ) that both exercise and eating release dopamine in the brain, which is an excitatory NT and a precursor to epinephrine.

Benzos enhance GABA's inhibitory activity. after a while the brain stops producing a lot of GABA since the benzos are taking over. i don't know how long you used benzos, but if you stop cold turkey or too fast then your brain doesn't have enough time to re-adjust/start making GABA again to control the adrenaline. it may just feel like adrenaline levels are higher in withdrawal, but it's more like GABA levels are too low. does that make sense? -rula


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

This is a really useful, fascinating thread. I hope we have more of these on the site in the future, and welcome to the site Rula!

As most people know, I'm a big student of neuropsychiatry. I just wanted to throw in my two cents about diet. GABA can indeed pass through the blood brain barrier, however, taking it orally is terribly inefficient. Its precursor, glutamine or glutamic acid, is a quick and efficient way to boost the brain's supply of GABA. As for diet affecting the levels of neurotransmitters, there was a landmark study done at Harvard in 1974, I beleive, which showed that a diet heavy in carbohydrates increased serotonin and decreased dopamine, while conversely, a high protein, low carb diet increased dopamine and decreased serotonin. And while low amounts of GABA may indeed affect epilepsy, it is much more genetically and biologically complicated. Most anticonvulsants actually influence sodium and calcium channels in the brain.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Chris (Jan 5, 2005)

Acid Male, you know nothing buddy. Nothing. You don't have DP.

I think that having your first panic attack can bring out the dp in someone, and let's say 5 years later you manage to completely fix your anxiety with meds, the DP will still be there. it becomes you. panic brings it out, but it's there all the time. I have chronic DP 24 hours a day, sometimes with no anxiety at all.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi Rula,

I basically cold turkied 1.5mg of Klonopin 28 months ago. The first year off I was an absolute mess. Its taken me this whole time to become entirely functional. I still feel like hell if I excersise too hard or eat too much or the wrong food.

I dont know whats wrong with me, but what I do know is that if I take even a small dose of an ssri, it feels like Im putting boiling acid in my brain. It gives me severe dp/dr, brain buzzing, and I grind me teeth 24/7. If I take 5htp, or sjw, I feel fear/dread and I worry non stop about the most ridiculous things. When I come off of any of this stuff, I feel like Im waking up from a bad dream.

Joe


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

When I had DP/DR as a little girl of 4, 5, 6 I would "bring it on" myself. I had no anxiety associated with it. It was as though I could bring on deja-vu. It was just a weird "experiment" I would do. When it "took over" on its own later in life, I believe it was expressing my chronic anxiety.

*As someone else said here, there are many different reasons for DP/DR. A few people here, I believe, and I mean a FEW, probably have pure primary DP/DR, the true definition of Depersonalization Disorder. That diagnosis describes DP/DR as having NO OTHER SYMPTOMS WITH IT INCLUDING ANXIETY. There are such people, but they are far less common than the rest of us here who seem to have DP as a SYMPTOM that accompanies other symptoms.*

If you look on my post about drugs which can bring on DP/DR in mentally healthy people, you will note the journal article is about a women who used an anti-acne medication. When she used it, she got DPd. When she went off of it she was fine. She tried it again and got DPd and decided to quit using it.

Each and every one of us on this board is unique, though I see an anxiety connection in probably most of the major mental illnesses. We have a limited number of ways to express brain disorder - depression, anxiety, psychosis, cognitive impairment. Mental illness is generally some combination of certain symptoms.

I have GAD, depression and chronic DP/DR with no let up for 30 years. I know what severe anxiety is, and I know I have a sort of low "rumbling underlying anxiety".

But right now, as I type this, I am not feeling anxiety and I know what it feels like, but I am still chronically DP/DR.

I am DP/DR in my dreams. Sometimes in my dreams I am also anxious, or have nightmares. Other times my dreams are very pleasant and whimsical, sometimes very pleasant in a sexual way, yet I am chronically DP/DR in the dreams.

Nothing that has to do with the brain is simple. It involves billions of processes.

*My mantra: We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, We are all unique, each and every one of us.*


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## dreamcatcher (Sep 23, 2004)

*BRILLIANT* post dreamer you explained it all really well


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