# If you live in England, Norway, Finland or baltic states a cure could be there-a new drug



## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

*Some years ago I posted some articles regarding a drug called nalmefene. Back in 1992 a experiment was done were on DP symptoms in people with PTSD given nalmefene and it work. *

*Nalmefene is a opiopate blocker that is very different from other blockers like naltrexone and naloxone.*

*In the opiopate system there are 3. transmitters and receptors; endorphin/MU-receptor, dynorphin/kappa receptor and enkephalin/delta receptor.*

*Naltrexone can in normal doses only block the endophin/mu-receptor -not the two others.*

*Naloxone can block all receptors -BUT can only be given IV and it has a half live of 60.min*

*Nalmefene affects all receptors in a normal dose- from 20.mg and up. It is probably a partiel agonist on dynorphin/kappa -receptor and enkephalin/delta receptors*

*All tree system are cornnectet to the reward system ( nucleus accumbens and the VTA) and the insula (sense of self). endorphin and enkaphin are stimulators of these systems - but dynorphin is an inhibitor on these system so you lose your sense of self and reward - the state is aversive with dynorphin.*

*At the Depersonalisation research unit tried to come up with a medical intervention for depersonalisation disorder they looked at the effects from ketamine and they thought that the dissociative/DPD came from the blocking of the glutamatic NMDA receptor. With that they tried lamital in a dose from 200-300.mg. Daphne Simion did a similar (unpublish) with d-cycloserine that stimulates the NMDA receptor -and it didn´t work.*

*And there is some logic behind that these trials didn´t work because ketamine don´t not only block the NMDA receptor -it also is an agonist on the dynorphin/kappa receptor -it stimules it and inhibits the reward system and Insula. in a study from 2008 on ketamine done at Harvard by Prof. Bill Carlezon they found that ketamine is a NMDA antagonist/kappa agonist. The DPD effect comes from the kappa recptor. This effect is verified by another trail on anorexia nervosa from Cambridge in 1996 were they thought that they anorexia was kept alive by long term mermory and by giving ketamine and block the NMDA receptor (it is a memory receptor) they could block long term memory and brake the circle. To block the dissociative effect from ketamine the anorectic were given 20.mg of nalmefene and it block the effect. One experienced depersonalisation from ketamine but it was because she was only on 10.mg of nalmefene. On 20.mg nalmefene no DPD symptoms.*

*Now Nalmefene has been approved in Europe to treat alcohol dependence under the name Selincro and it comes in 18.mg The company Lundbeck has marked it now in some european countries and you can get it in England, Norway, Finland and baltic countries. The rest of europe will follow in 2014 and 2015.*

*I live in Denmark and I have suffered from this in 29 years and I will plan to go to Norway or UK to get Selincro because I know it will work. So if you live in one of those countries will you please try to get a prescription and let me and others know if it is working. Don´t tell your GP that it is for DPD because it is not approved for that. Say that your have a problem with alcohol when you start to drink you lose your brakes and can not stop. Say you do not like that but you still want to be able to drink socially and you have heard that Selincro could be benefitting for a person with that behavior. *

*When you take Selincro (nalmefene) you shall be aware of a side effect that could get and that is a brief worsening of DP that because Selincro is a partiel agonist on the kappa receptor. It means that it dosen´t close the receptor but it stabilizes it. So it can as a side effect in the start be stimulating and give more dp symptoms - if it happens don´t panic it go away. It is not likely that it happens because dynorphin is likely to be there and stimulating the dynorphin/kappa recptor and Selincro( nalmefene) will act like a bloker.*


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## L.Z. (Oct 15, 2012)

Ok, a lot of technical details... Why U are so dure that it can benefit?


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

I know it will work. It blocked the dpd effect on the anorectic that were given ketamine it blocked it in PTSD verterans with DP in 1992. Naloxone in 10.mg also work very briefly -for a day. But it has a half life of 60.min -so after 1 hour your have 5.mg and one more 2.5mg in your blood . Naloxone could never be a treatment. Let us see when the posts comes in from some who has tried it - and it will work. Some symtoms will stay- like if you have them -like tinnitus, headache, brain fog. This is because dynorphin also depolarize the NMDA receptor -and you need anti-epileptic drugs or NMDA antagonist to adress that. But your sense of self and emotions will come back on Selincro (Nalmefene) I think it will work very fast within 2-3 days symptoms will start to go away.


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## L.Z. (Oct 15, 2012)

Do u think this for every type of DPD? Cause nobody is the same


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

There is no different type off DPD. You can have symptoms of DPD in epilepsy, after head injury, in migraine with aura.These are organic states an other symptom will also be present as nausea, digestive symptoms. It could partielly work in these states but these are organic states not psychiatric states.

In psychiatric states you can have in relation stress, panic, depression as a secondary symptom and your have as independent state in is own right.

If you have in it own right you will properly had a history like this; you had a periode of stress, depression, anixety or you smoked cannabis, took Salvia A, took ketamine or estazy and suddenly this state showed up in your head. Then you fell trapped and begins to panic over this state; I am losing control, this might a be beginning of a psychosis. In this period your will also have an extreme social anxiety. Your will be in this extreme stress state from 3-6 mouths.

After that the stress will go down by you will find yourself in a new state of numbing and a sense that you feeling of self is gone -your are dead inside!

At King College they have developed a cognitive model where the basis for chronic DP should that high level of stress and we should be in a stress state today that the brain has shot down to an become numb. However some other thing could had happened that i know they are not aware of.

I have read back in 90´teens neuropsychology and therefore i had a background to read into the research done into depersonalisation. From 2008 I began to fell bored of what i read and began evaluate the various drugs that could make DP states. I will not go deeply into this just. I had the ambition to see whether i could make a model that could explain what behind symptoms of depersonalisation in epilepsy, head injury, migraine with aura, fever, CFS and in psychiatric states like depression, panic ect. and as a chronic disorder on is own right. I have been very surprise of how much i have found and I have started to write a total evaluation of all the states. Right now there is 10.pages but when i am finished there likely will be between 25-30 pages excluding references.

To Huggy Bear. Okay you had tried 20.mg of naloxone IV. In the russian trail those who responded best had had DPD for less than 3. years one more that 10.years didn´t respond. So 20.mg is after one hour 10.mg 2.hours 5. mg and 3.hours 2.5mg in your blood due to short half life of one hour. So lets say that your kappa receptors had been inhibited for 5.hours -Do you think you can make any conclusion from that? Well, if you had tried Selincro in a dose between 20-40.mg for 4.weeks and it didn´t work i would listen to you.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

I wrote to Mauricio Sierra back in 2008 regarding Nalmefene and he wrote back that they had considered a trail with it - but it never got on. He agreed with me that there might be a chance.

I can not go to him as you write because i live in Denmark and not in the UK -and therefore not under NHS. He can not just give prescription for selincro for Depersonlisation because it is not approved for that. If he had a patient with DP an alcohol problems he could give for the alcohol problem - by accident cure DP. They can not within the unit just start a trail with nalmefene -they have to apply for a trail from independent committee within the NHS.

When you were given 20.mg of Naloxone it was an experiment properly not legal. I have an agreement to get Selincro when it comes out in Denmark officially for alcohol - but uofficially for DPD. My problem is that Lundbeck -the company that makes Selincro - haven´t sent it out in the rest off Europe and indicating that it might not be on the rest of European market until 2014 or 2015.


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## L.Z. (Oct 15, 2012)

But when u are so sure about it... Why don't u order it somewhere on the internet and start using it?


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

I have done that .There isn´t any online pharmacy within EU that have it for sale. Remember that that online pharmacies that sell drugs have a very limited drugs for sale that can be sold in big volume like; p-pills, impotens pills and antidepressant.

I only posted this because if someone who live in one of those countries should know there might be a drug that is likely to work.


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## L.Z. (Oct 15, 2012)

Ok i understand... But if u suffer from this and u are convinced that this might be ure cure, then i would do anything to get it.

Maybe contact somebody in the UK that can send it to U . It's not impossible in my opinion...


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

Yes -actually I am working on such a plan right now. From UK or Norway. The alternative is to wait to it eventually comes out in the rest of Europe including Denmark.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

Year, Dude - and the universe really tied the room together, didn´t it!

Year man -and he peed on it.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

To Huggy Bear.

Yes, there were many errors in the russian study- Dpd came back again in all in the same week. The write it but in a very wage way -by writing not at the same level. Some read the study as if the infusion was a permanent effect -it doesn´t.

We will know if Nelmefene/Selincro before the end of this year.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Mayer-Gross thank you for bringing this to light. Doesn't seem to be available yet in NL, but should be soon. I'm always up for guinea-pigging, so I'll definitely give this one a shot when I can. What I'm waiting for are human trials of Nor-binaltorphimine, 5'-Guanidinonaltrindole, or TENA. Bummer that Amentoflavone isn't readily available, or at least not from reliable synthesis labs afaik. In any case; nice work, thank you!


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hallo- odisa

Nor-binatorphimine was once thought to be a selective kappa antagonist -but now it is know to be partiel agonist on the kappa receptor like nalmefene. I think that a drug called JDtic should be a selective kappa antagonist that is in a preclinical trail for cocaine addiction. But it will take at least 10.years for JDtic or other selective kappa antagonists to be on the market -so is nalmefene for now if there is a strees related up regulation of dynorphin in depersonalization disorder.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Ahh alright! Yes in the meantime I've come across JDtic as well.. I don't think we'll have to wait that long though, see here.

I'll see what I can do about acquiring Nalmefene.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Well.. No luck with Nalmefene so far it seems. Haven't been able to get my hands on Buprenorphine either, though I haven't done my best really.
I can get Naltrexone, but why bother when I know there are superior options? So for me it's going to be either Nalmefene or JDtic.
In the meantime I'll just work on being patient, and experiment around with other stuff.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

Naltrexone isn´t very good for DPD. It affects that mu-receptor in a dose of 30-50.mg -but is 10-times weaker at the kappa receptor -where DP properly comes from. You need a dose of 300-500.mg of naltrexone to totally take the symptoms with naltrexone -and a very few can tolerate that. Selincro/nalmefene has come out i Italy last week. I live i Denmark and I think it will come out within the next month.


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## Xerei (Feb 17, 2010)

Hate to break it up for ya, but a magic pill just won't happen.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Yeah I'm not gonna bother with Naltrexone. I saw your comment in the other thread about Nalmefene.. Any updates?


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

no- on day 5. with 18.mg see another week or two then double to 36.mg it makes me feel weird perhaps it because it is working on the nervous system


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## L.Z. (Oct 15, 2012)

Hmm I thought u were so sure about it ?


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

I have now take nalmefene for 25. days in a daily dose of 18.mg. It helps a bit -my derealisation is lower and there is some sense of reality but no emotions. I think the dose is to low. Nalmefene in 18.mg is like 100.mg of naltrexone. So i will ask my doctor to go up to 56.mg a day for a month -that would be like 300.mg of naltrxone. In a trial back in 2005 done by Daphne Simeon 3. could tolerate a dose above 200.mg and they had a reduction of 70% -one became symptom free. I will update again in a months time.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

Been with my doctor. We go up one week to 26.mg a day. Then 2.weeks on weeks on 36.mg a day then one week on 45.mg a day. I can feel a little effect on 18.mg a day ; less DR and glimses of emotions -but it is to little to say it is not placebo. Back in 1992 a trail with nalmefene for numbing in PTSD the numbing broke at a dose of 28.mg a day.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

Considering to drop nalmefene. Side- effect at a dose of 26.mg is not tolerate; fatigue, dry mounth, nausea and vomiting. My psychiatrist bored a machine called "stress eraser" to me. The idee should be that there are 2.kind of stress responses; the simpatic fight or flight and the parasympatic "shut down" or dissociate. Depersonalisation should be a parasympatic stress response. He has the idea that the "stress eraser" can train me to build a "safe" parasymptic stress response that can surpress the "unsafe" parasymptatic stress response (depersonalization). He says that you can´t have both responses over time.


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