# "I" don't exist (literally)



## DeVoid (Feb 17, 2010)

I really can't think of any other way of putting it. In my life, I've experienced some of the worst DP/DR you can possibly imagine, but the state I've been in for the past 5 months is a new level of hell for me that I didn't even think was possible.

The absolute hell of this state is difficult to convey, but I'll try. Imagine all of your emotions and feelings suddenly being erased, destroyed, and eradicated at the deepest level imaginable. This happened to me, and I've been left with a constant "feeling" of nothingness and nonexistence 24/7 for the past 5 months (save for 2 days, which I will get to later). All of my drives, desires, and will have been fully extinguished, and it feels as if my inner life force has been shut down completely.

Emotions, feelings, and drives are a huge part of what makes us human beings and defines our selves. I've spent 30 years building my inner emotional landscape, populated by people, places, events, songs, movies, etc., but when I try to experience or think about these things (or indeed, anything at all) there is simply no emotion triggered whatsoever. Absolutely nothing, not a hint of familiarity. So 30 years of my life have become meaningless, and it feels as if I have never lived them at all. Everything inside that made up the feeling of "me" is completely gone.

For everything you see, hear, smell, and touch, there is normally an emotion or feeling attached to it. I.e. if you are talking to a friend you will have a "schema" of this person that will hold feelings about their face, the sound of their voice and past things you've done together that will be triggered when you see them. These constantly shifting and changing feelings based on our sensory perceptions make up our emotional landscape, and help to guide us through life. It's how most people's brains function. Not mine anymore - there is no landscape there, only a constant barren desert of nothingness.

Because of this, I've basically been unable to function for the past 5 months, and have spent 90% of my time lying in bed or trying to sleep. I've gained about 50 pounds (eating a lot in a vain attempt to feel something), and am lucky if I take a shower once a week.

With my emotions erased, time is rendered meaningless, so the 5 months honestly doesn't feel like that long. In fact, it feels like no time at all has passed. My ability to have a normal day, with normal feelings for morning, noon and night have been destroyed. I wish for a normal day with my inner spirit guiding me through the day's activities. Without emotions, there is nothing to do, nothing to look forward to, and nothing to engage you - no interest. Somehow, the time passes, but I don't even feel bored. Just complete nothingness.

The most horrific thing about this is, I cannot feel a thing about being in this state. I have literally lost the part of me that is able to care. I am only able to intellectualize that this is hell, but there are no feelings to match. I used to think the guy portrayed in Metallica's "One" would be the most nightmarish situation possible to be in (a man with no arms, legs, sight or hearing left to simply exist in his own personal hell - strangely, thinking about it now evokes no emotions at all). However, I have found an even worse scenario - losing your inner self completely. This song could be called "Zero", and it's what I've been living for the past 5 months.

Some of you may think this is depression, but I disagree (having experienced that before). The only thing close to this state that I have found on the web is Cotard's Syndrome. There are a few different variations and theories about it, but the one postulated about all of the senses being disconnected from the limbic system, leaving complete apathy to everything and a sense of not being alive seems to fit. It has been taken to the level where it literally feels like I don't exist (in fact, I've uttered the phrase, "I don't exist" many times). I know a physical body exists, but it has been emptied of all that is me.

So, what caused me to be in this state? I am 90% sure it is the result of withdrawal from an antidepressant. I'd been on Wellbutrin XR (initially the brand name, and later changed to the generic version) for 5 years (a high dosage - 450 mg, later changed to 300 mg). I decided to come off the drug in late 2009, and four months later began my descent into what can only described as the worst hell imaginable (described above). It was a gradual process of losing my self and feelings that came in stages. I tried going back on the drug for a month but that only made things worse. After trying to go back on them a second time I experienced a day of sudden improvement after just 2 pills followed by a seizure. That's when things really fell apart.

I've been in this hell of nonexistence for the past 5 months and do not see a way out. I have had 2 sudden improvements that each lasted for one day (once in May and once in September). These days were marked by insomnia and there was a return of my feelings to the level where I was able to function again. Both times when I did eventually get to sleep, I woke up in a state of confusion and eventually regressed to the nonexistent state again (there was possible seizure activity during sleep both times). It's not fair, I can't live like this. I have not taken a pill since May 25th. It's been so long without lasting change, I doubt I'm never going to regain my previous self.

I'm honestly not sure how to get out of this, short of the obvious answer. The only thing keeping me going is the last improvement that happened over a month ago. Unfortunately, it only lasted for a day, and after sleeping I felt more gone than ever and I haven't changed since. Could withdrawal from an antidepressant do this to a person? It certainly seems like a neurological issue within the brain (especially with the seizures and brief improvements) as opposed to having a psychological cause. Of course, before this started, I absolutely loathed myself for a variety of reasons and felt a tremendous amount of guilt and pain. I'm thinking that may have something to do with it, but with nothing inside me at all, there is nothing therapy can do for me now.

Has anyone ever experienced anything to this level, and do you think it's possible to regain my previous self? I feel like I have lost everything a person can lose, and don't know if it will ever come back. Sad thing is, I don't even care I'm gone. Sorry for the length, but advice would be appreciated.


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## DeVoid (Feb 17, 2010)

BTW, I know that emotional numbness is a common DP/DR symptom. With DP 24/7 before this happened, I know what that was like. Unfortunately, this is not blunting or numbing of emotions (i.e. when they are still there but very hard to reach or blocked temporarily). This feels totally different, like all of the emotions were erased, not even there to access anymore, and like they never were. Absolute loss of self and emotional flatline, 24/7. Just wanted to clarify in case I wasn't clear.


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## Opus131 (Mar 23, 2010)

Did you make a similar post before? I think you can still find it if you type ego death on google. I'm at a similar stage, except in my case has been gradual. I lose myself everyday, and there doesn't appear to be a repose, ever. Everyday is worst then the day before, always, regardless of what i do. I'm now very close to what you are describing, with the added caveat that my memory is going along with myself. I'm 32 years old but i might as well have been born yesterday for as much as i can remember. Of course, if i try really hard, i *do* remember, even though the recollection is just as faint as my feeling towards it. I'm also not in a position of quitting my job which is killing me. Since i'm still capable of reasoning normally in a mechanical sort of way and since my bank of knowledge is still nearly intact (despite my inability to recollect biographical events or experiences), i can do it if i want to, but as my anterograde amnesia (inability to form new memories as opposed to remembering older ones) gets worst i may eventually get fired (i'm very close to it as it is). My DP/DR actually started about six years ago, though at the time i did not recognize it as such. Incidentally, i was taking an anti-depressant at the time, and i'm pretty sure it was Wellbutrin. I took it for a couple of months before quitting, and a short time after that i experienced my first derealization symptom, in the form of a lessening of my vision (feels similar to when you step indoors after absorbing bright sun light), as well as heavy visual snow. Mind you that i've been suffering from social anxiety all my life, and prior to the onset of those symptoms i was under an extremely stressful situation after being caught for a DUI. About two years ago i've also developed a panic disorder. One year later (about ten months ago), i just woke up and found myself dying, literally. The shift in perception was extreme. One moment i was bitching about not being able to feel (typical DP/DR stuff), the next day all i felt was a void in my head. The first few months i got this i had to keep the light on all the time because i was terrified of the darkness, since i really felt as if i was disappearing (feeling eventually turned into reality. I AM disappearing). Nothing i have done to stop this has had any effect, except for the worst. Things that make it dramatically worst are caffeine, sugars of any kind, anything that alters my mind in any way (including chamomille), and, and this may be of interesting to you, St. John Wort. I say it may be interesting for you because if you are indeed the author of that other post, then your symptom became worst after trying an SSRI, correct? BTW, never once did i experience a lessening of my symptoms, not sure if that maybe of help to you, other then making you feel more depressed (feel? what am i saying).


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## DeVoid (Feb 17, 2010)

Opus131 said:


> Did you make a similar post before? I think you can still find it if you type ego death on google. I'm at a similar stage, except in my case has been gradual. I lose myself everyday, and there doesn't appear to be a repose, ever. Everyday is worst then the day before, always, regardless of what i do. I'm now very close to what you are describing, with the added caveat that my memory is going along with myself. I'm 32 years old but i might as well have been born yesterday for as much as i can remember. Of course, if i try really hard, i *do* remember, even though the recollection is just as faint as my feeling towards it. I'm also not in a position of quitting my job which is killing me. Since i'm still capable of reasoning normally in a mechanical sort of way and since my bank of knowledge is still nearly intact (despite my inability to recollect biographical events or experiences), i can do it if i want to, but as my anterograde amnesia (inability to form new memories as opposed to remembering older ones) gets worst i may eventually get fired (i'm very close to it as it is). My DP/DR actually started about six years ago, though at the time i did not recognize it as such. Incidentally, i was taking an anti-depressant at the time, and i'm pretty sure it was Wellbutrin. I took it for a couple of months before quitting, and a short time after that i experienced my first derealization symptom, in the form of a lessening of my vision (feels similar to when you step indoors after absorbing bright sun light), as well as heavy visual snow. Mind you that i've been suffering from social anxiety all my life, and prior to the onset of those symptoms i was under an extremely stressful situation after being caught for a DUI. About two years ago i've also developed a panic disorder. One year later (about ten months ago), i just woke up and found myself dying, literally. The shift in perception was extreme. One moment i was bitching about not being able to feel (typical DP/DR stuff), the next day all i felt was a void in my head. The first few months i got this i had to keep the light on all the time because i was terrified of the darkness, since i really felt as if i was disappearing (feeling eventually turned into reality. I AM disappearing). Nothing i have done to stop this has had any effect, except for the worst. Things that make it dramatically worst are caffeine, sugars of any kind, anything that alters my mind in any way (including chamomille), and, and this may be of interesting to you, St. John Wort. I say it may be interesting for you because if you are indeed the author of that other post, then your symptom became worst after trying an SSRI, correct? BTW, never once did i experience a lessening of my symptoms, not sure if that maybe of help to you, other then making you feel more depressed (feel? what am i saying).


Hi,

Not sure if you're referring to this post, but if so, yes that was me. That episode occurred in 2004. Although it might sound very similar, it was quite a bit different from my experience this year. Back then, I was going through the worst DP/DR feelings of my entire life, and my anxiety level was through the roof. Although I didn't feel it at the time, there was definitely more of my self present then. There was enough of me left that I felt it as a hellish experience, one I tried to fight every step of the way. I still had a very precious sense of my existence.

After I came out of that experience, I was a changed person. I never experienced the intense DP/DR anxiety again, I had become permanently cut off from myself in a way I grew to become comfortable with. Somehow I was completely detached yet still able to feel emotions and enjoy life after awhile. When I talk about "me" not existing this time, it is purely on the level of my emotions. There was no existential anxiety crisis where it felt like I was battling for my life and gradually disappearing. This time, it's simply like a switch was thrown, and everything vanished so completely that I didn't have time to react or feel anything towards it. I could only observe that it was gone. To me this is worse than 2004, because of how nothing my life has become, how much I don't care (literally ZERO), and the amount of time that is passing like this. In 2004 at least I was in a form of consciousness (as fucked up as it was), whereas now there is not really a sense of being in a time or place. Literal nothingness 24/7. And not being able to feel like, "oh god... where am I" or anything like that. It's impossible for me to even do a reality check, the nothingness is that all-encompassing. I would rather have the constant anxiety than this.

I'm 32 now as well. I think my memories are still there, it's just that absolutely no emotions are attached to them. Like I didn't experience them or they happened to someone else. It's good that you still have your job, it shows a perseverance that I simply do not have anymore. If this doesn't change, I can't see myself ever getting a job again. Or doing anything, really. I'll probably end up eating myself to an early grave if this continues.

St. John's Wort really made you worse, eh? It's funny, when I had gone off my meds last year, I decided to try vitamins and St. John's Wort for several weeks. During that time I kept getting worse and worse, until I eventually decided to go back on the meds. I wonder it the St. John's had a negative effect for me as well.

Anyway, the good news for you is, when I had the feeling of gradually disappearing back in 2004, I eventually hit a rock bottom point where there was no more of me left to disappear and I ended up coming out of it for 5 years which were pretty good for me. I believe the same can happen for you. Don't give up hope. As impossible as the concept of hope is for me, I have the thought that maybe somehow things will change for the better someday.


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## Opus131 (Mar 23, 2010)

2004, Christ. Yeah, that was the post i was talking about. So it appears i'm gonna have to deal with this for years. The fact it keeps getting worse doesn't bode well, either. The memory loss, i guess if i am being disconnected from the limbic system, it makes sense that i would lose my memory as well. So far this is really the scariest symptom of them all. Its one thing to lose oneself, another to lose _everything else_. I'm just terrorized at the prospect of losing my ability to remember completely, which to me it sounds like the closest imaginable thing to death. This must be the single worst psychiatric disorder ever to affect a human being since the dawn of time.


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## Nihil Dexter (Sep 9, 2010)

when i had a massive panic attack in the car of a friend of mine, i got home and i wasn't sure if i'm alive or dead.
i asked my mum :" is this real, am i dead by now ?" I'm still in hell, but the weeks and months after this incident were undescirbable.
It was like being dead and tripping in a whole other dimension. I surely have PTSD from all this stuff.


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## whiterabbit (Aug 16, 2004)

Totally relate to what you recount DeVoid, have been like this for three years and experienced the deaths of a very close friend and father in this state. I am 46 been through bouts of this, on and off for 20 years but never more than six months. This time I am just a dead person walking and it feels permanent. Have kind of had enough. I'll never work again and have nothing to offer. Grim.


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## karenws (Dec 17, 2010)

What do you guys think of the possibility that what you are going through is a natural process of personality change. When you install a new program on your computer, you need to close all running programs, and sometimes you even need to turn off the operating system with a reboot because its difficult to modify a program while it is running. DeVoid, you said that you loathed yourself before this all started. Could it be that your brain is busy revamping yourself and how you will emotionally respond to things. During the uninstall and reinstall, your brain needs to close the "old you" program, so that parts can be deleted and modified. When the installation has completed, the new you will be rebooted. After your last reboot in 2004, you said you were a changed person, comfortably cut off from the old, and you went on to have a pretty nice 5 years as this new you. Maybe that "change of person" was the objective of the whole process. I have read that it takes 3 months for new neurons to be born and mature into functional cells. So 5 months that you've been emotionally off-line seems consistent with that time course. It may be just about through running its natural course. Hang in there.


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## birdiehead (Apr 19, 2010)

devoid,

you write so well. i just want you to know that i am in the exact same place you are. what you wrote it's like you are reading my empty mind. i just can't get it out in words anymore. probably because i don't care about anything anymore. i spent 2 weeks in the psych hospital this summer. now i just feel dead. these meds are just keeping me going on borrowed time. i continue to fight but when i think about it it just seems pointless.

do you know what brought on your dpd? was it drugs or just life? i have a feeling it was lsd but i'll never know.

this is the worst disorder known to man. what are we gonna do? i know i'm gonna catch hell for writing this but i've read many places that most cases of dpd end in suicide and the person undertakes the process without care. i'm sorry for writing that but after researching dpd for so many years you see it all.

like you I don't exist anymore. at all. i'm just faking my way through life. i feel like a horrible person undeserving to live. mo memories, no feelings, no present, no past. the past just seems like something i saw on TV.

i'm a bornfighter!!!!!!!!!!! but what else can we do. there's no medication!!!! ego death? i don't know what to call it anymore. i feel like i have no soul. i know whats right and wrong and i know i want to love everyone and everything but i can't and it's killing me.

are they gonna find us a drug? is it going to magically go away? i don't think this is gonna happen. there's no point in living if you're not living.


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## birdiehead (Apr 19, 2010)

birdiehead said:


> devoid,
> 
> you write so well. i just want you to know that i am in the exact same place you are. what you wrote it's like you are reading my empty mind. i just can't get it out in words anymore. probably because i don't care about anything anymore. i spent 2 weeks in the psych hospital this summer. now i just feel dead. these meds are just keeping me going on borrowed time. i continue to fight but when i think about it it just seems pointless.
> 
> ...


i'm 34 by the way. this all started when i was 17. 2 weeks after i dropped acid. slow decline from 17 to 34


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Well written OP. At least you are still able to articulate the nothingness.


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## Opus131 (Mar 23, 2010)

Its been a few months since the last time i posted (though it feels like its been years), and i'm now ten times worst then i was before. To people who have had this for years, does it ever stop? Is there a point where it simply cannot get any worst, short of actually being dead, so you can at least work your up, since you've already been as low as its humanly possible?

I'm now really, truly dead. This is not hyperbole, its not figure of speech. I feel nothing, remember nothing, i am nothing. This is truly the worst condition in the world. And i contracted it as a result of emotional distress in the first place. It just seems so unfair that after experiencing all that suffering, i now have to spend the rest of my life living like a zombie. Its like a cruel, twisted cosmic joke.


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## Amelie (Jul 24, 2007)

Opus131 said:


> Its been a few months since the last time i posted (though it feels like its been years), and i'm now ten times worst then i was before.


I'm really sorry you're having such a bad time.



> To people who have had this for years, does it ever stop? Is there a point where it simply cannot get any worst, short of actually being dead, so you can at least work your up, since you've already been as low as its humanly possible?


I was 17 when my DP/DR hit...and let's just say that was... *cough*... a few years ago.







(Like a few DECADES ago!) I hate to be a party pooper, but--FOR ME--it's been constant, 24/7, day in and day out since it hit at 17. There are times when it's worse, but I never really think of it as being better...until it gets worse again. Does that make any sense? What I mean is that I'm always at a certain plateau, which is bad--really bad--but there are times when it gets even worse than that, and then subsides again back to my usual plateau. But MY experience can't predict anything about YOUR experience, as it's different for each of us.


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## omniel (Dec 26, 2010)

*Sunyata*

is worth reading about...

i would seriously suggest practicing meditation, with devotion.

some good reading on meditation can be found in "dharana, dhyana, samadhi" and also "jhana"

basically just learn to 'hold' an empty mind, no thoughts. it takes practice and perseverance, but is truly worth the effort!


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## DeVoid (Feb 17, 2010)

Opus131 said:


> Its been a few months since the last time i posted (though it feels like its been years), and i'm now ten times worst then i was before. To people who have had this for years, does it ever stop? Is there a point where it simply cannot get any worst, short of actually being dead, so you can at least work your up, since you've already been as low as its humanly possible?
> 
> I'm now really, truly dead. This is not hyperbole, its not figure of speech. I feel nothing, remember nothing, i am nothing. This is truly the worst condition in the world. And i contracted it as a result of emotional distress in the first place. It just seems so unfair that after experiencing all that suffering, i now have to spend the rest of my life living like a zombie. Its like a cruel, twisted cosmic joke.


If there is any part of you that wants to fight against being in this state, there is hope. If you feel that you are experiencing hell and are desperate to get out of this state, then there is still a part of you left that cares. It sounds strange, but if you are experiencing suffering, there is still a part of you left to suffer. And that is actually a good thing.

Because, it is actually possible to lose even that. That is the place you truly do not want to be. I know, because I am there now. Let me describe what I have devolved into.

Somehow, I've lost everything inside me that made up my inner being, and I literally don't care. All of the elements that made up my sense of personal self are no longer there (all emotions, personality, and feelings). Literally, 31 years of human experience have come to nothing.

My inner emotional construct that most people take for granted no longer exists. I have lost all my hopes, dreams, fears, desires, opinions, values, and likes/dislikes. I now have the same feelings for my mother or best friend that I have for a ceiling fan: none at all. No matter what I think of or experience, there are no feelings associated.

My consciousness has literally been changed to completely eliminate an inner self and emotions. All of the sensory input is now devoid of feelings, feelings that used to be so basic and familiar. I think that I am no longer human, I am nothing. Just a body. And I am unable to feel anything about the situation, as that part of me is gone too. My inner universe no longer exists.

Do you feel exactly like I've described? If you still have anything inside (the smallest piece), there is hope. For me, there currently is none.

I fail to see how withdrawal from an antidepressant could cause this, but it is the only thing I can point to as a cause. I am fine in every other respect mentally (cognition, intellect, memory, co-ordination), so I have ruled out some type of dementia or brain disease. The brain MRI which I had in September came back negative.

The very brief sudden positive change I experienced happened 6 months ago, and after that day everything inside me disappeared again, but this time more completely than ever.

There has been no sign of a change in 6 months, so I think this may be permanent. And before that 6 months, there was another 4 months of near-nothingness, and before that another 2 months of hell (that was when there was still a part of me that was able to feel I was losing something and felt horrified). So it's been about a year since this all started. Yet every second of my life feels like nothingness, so there is no concept of a year.
I am unable to care about the time lost.

This seems to me to be quite a singular case, as terms like "depersonalization", "anhedonia", "blunted feelings" and "lack of interest" do not describe this state. The core of who I was as a person was completely erased, and I don't know if there is a way it will ever come back. If not, it is only a matter of time before I end this non-life. I am in fact already quite dead in a sense, so it won't be much of a change.


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## sunyata samsara (Feb 18, 2011)

Got this from a site called lovebliss. What you say sounds like what they call self realization which is enlightenment and there is one higher version of enlightenment where nothingness is experienced as bliss.

Self-realization. Nothingness-being. Freedom. Pure Being
Self realization is a state of total freedom from the small I where even the primal I-ness has gone (and the witness in witnessing is gone). We call this stage Self-realization because here the I-ness (and the identification mechanism which depends upon I-ness) is gone and you have attained oneness with the Self as pure being. Here there is no longer a sense of being nobody or being nothing. There simply is pure being. There is no point of awareness, for pure being is awareness without a source. In witnessing there is still a sense of being an awareness. One is not (yet) blissful. In its purity it is a peaceful state, but when you move on it can get very complicated. It takes a long time to bring IT into manifestation in everyday living. In other words, you have attained a state of freedom, but not yet found the love-bliss. You have stepped out of illusion and into pure being, but not yet into recognizing this pure being in everything around you. When the Self recognizes the Self in everything it is lovebliss. But in pure Self-realization, such a recognition is not (yet) present. Here there is non-duality in the Self, but duality between inner and outer (unmanifest and manifest).

Plain Self-realization is the death of the small self that was produced by identification with something that is not Self. But the personality does not vanish, it's just not you anymore. Some say the ego has to go away; that is a matter of definition: if you maintain the personality is the ego, then the ego will remain, if you maintain the ego is the sense of I (I-ness), then yes, ego will vanish.

From Pure Being to non-dual love-bliss
Once you are free of I-ness and identification, it is Self-realization. This does not mean you have got rid of the small self; you have just got out of it by merging with the Self. In fact the small self will feel all the more present as an empty shell and you will probably want to work hard to get rid of it.

If you have not experienced any love-bliss at this point, you will probably be quite content with this state and live happily in it for many years. If, however, you have experienced supreme love-bliss, you will feel an emptiness and a very strong longing to merge with the supreme love-bliss. You may project this longing for supreme love-bliss onto God and thus long intensely for God, but in reality it is a longing for the supreme love-bliss of the Self. Of course, at this point "God" has a completely different meaning than ever before, but that is a little difficult to put into words here.

At this stage, if you want to move on, you simply have to awaken and arouse kundalini and merge into oneness with Shakti on all levels of consciousness and also of the body. When kundalini reaches the heart, you will overflow with love, when it reaches the brain, you will be one with love-bliss and will recognize the Self in everything.

Dark Night of the Soul (2)
The period of transformation from pure nothingness-being to non-dual lovebliss can last a long time and cause many frustrations. It is the real Dark Night of the Soul. I lived in this state 23 years and suffered a lot because of it --also because nobody could tell me, what was going on and nobody respected my state and I was very lonely in a spiritual sense. So there was a lot of social frustration and loneliness. Ironically you are also free from suffering since you are no longer identified with the sufferer. You are of course a permanent witness, much as in the witness-state, though now there is no sense of being a witness.

Basically this phase is a period where the consciousness, you have stepped out of, disintegrates and become transparent. The goal is non-duality with respect to inner and outer, and in order to reach that, anything that hinders the Self from recognizing the Self in everything else, must dissolve. Here kundalini is your greatest ally. Some may fear kundalini because it to them at first seems to be a destructive energy. But what it destroys is ignorance, and as its process progresses, kundalini will manifest as love-bliss. When kundalini finally settles in the brain, you will be living in perpetual love-bliss and realize this to be the Self.

Self-recognition. Love-bliss
In the primal stage you have pure being which is empty and is not yet realized as what it is: pure bliss (sat-chit-ananda). Second stage begins to unfold only after kundalini has awakened. It is not possible to attain supreme love-bliss without arousing kundalini and merging it in the brain. A major part of kundalini has to reach the brain and stay there for good by merging with the Self. This means you need to develop and purify kundalini's passage up to the brain. Once kundalini settles in the brain, then the remaining unfoldment will go on by itself and there is no need for meditation. This is a state of perpetual bliss. You never lose the bliss, though it may wax and wane for various reasons. You don't even loose it while sleeping..

In this stage of Self realization, you see the supreme Self in everything and this recognition is non-dual lovebliss. It is non-dual because the Self within, the recognition and the Self without are the same. This unity is love-bliss.

Now, since some karma is intact, there is still a personality hanging around, though you know it is not you of course. You will, after Self realization, observe the personality do some strange and silly things and react in ways, that may seem unworthy of love-bliss. That is just karma unfolding and part of the process of the final breakdown of residual "ignorance". As that process goes on, the love-bliss takes you over completely. Later lovebliss may temporarily recede to the background because some transformation is going on inside. So even at this stage lovebliss is not stable.

Just as suddenly as freedom from the small self came about and I-ness vanished, you will suddenly find your kundalini does not leave the brain and you are constantly in a state of love-bliss. This can come as a major breakthrough or it can come rather unnoticed since kundalini may have been in the brain most of the time anyway, so you will only realize after some time that it is a permanent change. But one thing will not go unnoticed, and that is the flash of energy in the brain as kundalini makes the brain its new abode. You will feel the crown chakra opening and as if a million bubbles are exploding inside the brain. And most importantly you will feel like the brain dissolves into Shakti. When you open your eyes after that meditation, you will see the Self in everything around you. So it comes in a flash, but since you may be so used to love-bliss by now, and so used to losing it again, you may expect to lose this also. But one sweet day, it will not leave you anymore.

Beyond
Yes, there is more beyond this, but let the above suffice for now.


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