# Subuxone, Naltrexone, Naloxone, etc.



## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

I remember when I first became DP'd and suffered thru the most ridiculous and incredible amount of symptoms imaginable....I would ask people for an adrenaline shot...like i needed to wake up....(as i snapped out a few times completely...but it only lasted seconds)...

Neway, whats the thinking behind using these opiod antagonists with DP?
My knowledge is that they are used in helping with overdoses and such, and since we are in somewhat of an "affixiated" state, that it could help "wake us up" or "out of" Depersonalization?

Is this assumption correct?

Chris


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

Sketch2000 said:


> Neway, whats the thinking behind using these opiod antagonists with DP?
> My knowledge is that they are used in helping with overdoses and such, and since we are in somewhat of an "affixiated" state, that it could help "wake us up" or "out of" Depersonalization?
> 
> Is this assumption correct?


Hey, I found this information online. Let me share it with you. This is regarding Naltrexone, an opioid antagonist.

*Naltrexone*- is an opioid receptor antagonist that is used in managing opiate dependence. It is not an anxiolytic but several studies have proven that it can be helpful in depersonalization sufferers. *This is because opioid recpetors have the ability to alter perception (therefore while on opiates you may feel depersonalized), since it is an antagonist it binds to the opiod receptor and block the access of any agonists. *

I don't know if this is information you have come across before, but I thought I'd post it anyway.


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## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thank you brotha...I appreciate the information...
I figured as much...don't know why people would use opiates to become depersonalized...but thats another issue/debate...

Naltrexone unfortunately didn't work for me...although I used it for a short period of time and with my current regimen of medication (luvox,klonopin,lamictal) so maybe thats why.

I just got an email back from the detox clinic in S. Florida that administers naloxone and subuxone and such...the guy referred me to a doctor that may be able to help prescribing and/or going over some of this with me so I'm going to pursue this avenue and see where it leads. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks again.
Chris


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## sid172 (Jun 9, 2010)

Sketch2000 said:


> Thank you brotha...I appreciate the information...
> I figured as much...don't know why people would use opiates to become depersonalized...but thats another issue/debate...
> 
> Naltrexone unfortunately didn't work for me...although I used it for a short period of time and with my current regimen of medication (luvox,klonopin,lamictal) so maybe thats why.
> ...


I remember reading your post on Naltrexone and I have to say I felt the same way for the first couple of weeks that I was taking it. Once my dosage hit about 150mg I noticed a definite improvement, I have to wait before I go any higher due to liver concerns.


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

sid172 said:


> Once my dosage hit about 150mg I noticed a definite improvement


Sid, can you let me know in which areas you saw a definite improvement with 150mg?


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## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

Sid,

Thanks for the info.
My Pdoc did mention to me (as did Heather - another member on this forum) that it takes a while to kick in. 
I only used 50mg (thats the dose I got up to) and only for a month.

But it made me feel worse...or atleast worse than b4 I took it. Therefore I discontinued it. Perhaps its worth giving it another shot. Are you on any other medications whilst taking the naltrexone?

It may be because I'm using 3 medications (SSRI, klon, lamictal) that it had something to do with the naltrexone not working as well (or not at all).

Chris


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## sid172 (Jun 9, 2010)

Sketch2000 said:


> Sid,
> 
> Thanks for the info.
> My Pdoc did mention to me (as did Heather - another member on this forum) that it takes a while to kick in.
> ...


I take clonazepam sporadically when my anxiety gets out of control. You know the best way I can describe it is that the naltrexone makes the dp more pliable. So if im feeling calm and upbeat the dp is minimized, if im feeling anxious it goes through the roof. Whereas before I felt dp chronically and severely no matter what I was doing. I have to tell you though I didnt really feel anything until I upped the dosage to 150mg and I plan on going higher. My advice to you would be to try it again and slowly up the dosage. If you look at the famous pilot study all the patients who had dramatic results were taking 250mg daily. You will feel sick the first few weeks, and you might feel depressed. Try and stay positive and socialize, all you have to lose is anxiety







. Also, make sure you get your liver enzymes checked at least once a month. Go slow with upping the dosage, I went up 25 mg every two weeks.


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## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

sid172 said:


> I take clonazepam sporadically when my anxiety gets out of control. You know the best way I can describe it is that the naltrexone makes the dp more pliable. So if im feeling calm and upbeat the dp is minimized, if im feeling anxious it goes through the roof. Whereas before I felt dp chronically and severely no matter what I was doing. I have to tell you though I didnt really feel anything until I upped the dosage to 150mg and I plan on going higher. My advice to you would be to try it again and slowly up the dosage. If you look at the famous pilot study all the patients who had dramatic results were taking 250mg daily. You will feel sick the first few weeks, and you might feel depressed. Try and stay positive and socialize, all you have to lose is anxiety
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. 
With me anxiety is definitely a trigger for my DPD. Today I was horribly depersonalized but with no known trigger (I was at home...the most comfortable of places). Another thing that really sparks my DPD is self doubt and ruminations...thats the end of it! Thats when I get trapped in this "stare" where I'm constantly ruminating about how to get out...lose all sense of self.

I am using Luvox, Klonopin, and lamictal...I'm just (still) curious if that had anything to do with the naltrexone not working. Since you use klonopin thats a good thing. I'm actually in the process of lowering mine by 1mg over the next month...I know, could be harsh. But I'm on 2.5 mg daily and have been for some time, I'd like to try changing something and see the results - if any.

My Pdoc did comment that I should possibly try it again. And now that I"m contacting substance abuse / addict clinics for naloxone or suboxone, etc. It may be worth it. I remember it making me sick and somewhat more foggy than I already am.

I can have little to NO DPD at any given time (I haven't had any since 10pm, its now almost 5am). But then again i can have it severely, or 50%, etc. so I'm debating whether to give it a try or just be thankful with what I've got....Its a tough choice.

Does it make you feel more focused or "clearer" ?

One thing I've noticed is that I need to be exceptionally focused in order to "keep" my sense of self...the minute my mind goes off track or starts thinking of something else I'm completely gone / DP'd....

Chris


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## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm definitely feeling more DPD while titrating the klonopin. Severe....like just stuck in a stare/daze...only thing is it doesn't scare me...I just want to get out of it....
Then you go through the thinking of - why am i titrating / lowering my dose of klonopin if its helped manage my DPD ???

Don't get me wrong. I've always had DPD, their is always a sense of dissociation or DPD...but its manageable...AND, i must say, i do still have these "severe" spells...but so far since the 4th, I've had a few more than usual...and to think I'm scheduled to go down another .5mg in a month or so...I may just drop this .5 and stay at 2mg...

I feel like I need something to help me focus, think more clearly....not let my mind drift away...because if i am focused and clear...although their will always be some anxiety around for us (even those 2 that have recovered i believe) / something in the back of our mind.....i don't get DP'd or DR'd....

The doctor that was referred by the substance abuse clinic turns out just to be an osteopathic physician. ????? Perhaps he is just more aware of naloxone, subuxone, etc. and the effects on this kind of syndrome.

Anyway, I'm seriously considering starting the naltrexone again (I'd much rather take these pills than use the IV) if it helps me think clearer and helps me be less depersonalized. THEN, POSSIBLY I CAN TAPER DOWN SOME OF THE OTHER MEDS ??

What do you guys think ? I'm going to finish tapering down this klonopin (.5), then stay steady for another 2 weeks or so. Then email my Pdoc and ask about starting the naltrexone again. How did you titrate yours (starting at what dose, for how long, and going up to your current dose, etc.)

MAIN REASON I'M ASKING IS BECAUSE THIS "LONDON MIX" THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT SEEMS TO BE SOMEWHAT IN THE PAST NOW GIVEN THESE NEW STUDIES OF OPIATE ANTAGONISTS. AND IF I CAN GET OFF 3 MEDICATIONS AND JUST TAKE 1 OR 2...THAN I'M ALL FOR IT. BUT THEN AGAIN IT DEPENDS ON THE OUTCOME...TIRED OF THIS TRIAL AND ERROR SHIT.

Chris


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## sid172 (Jun 9, 2010)

Sketch2000 said:


> I'm definitely feeling more DPD while titrating the klonopin. Severe....like just stuck in a stare/daze...only thing is it doesn't scare me...I just want to get out of it....
> Then you go through the thinking of - why am i titrating / lowering my dose of klonopin if its helped manage my DPD ???
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I've always had DPD, their is always a sense of dissociation or DPD...but its manageable...AND, i must say, i do still have these "severe" spells...but so far since the 4th, I've had a few more than usual...and to think I'm scheduled to go down another .5mg in a month or so...I may just drop this .5 and stay at 2mg...
> ...


I doubt it will be a miracle worker for you, and as I stated before, my dp can still go through the roof if im anxious. I think you should try for the higher doses, slowly taper up, like 25mg every two weeks. If your concerned about liver toxicity go to pubmed.com and type in naltrexone. As you'll see the only incidents of liver toxicity recorded in a study occurred when it was tested for obesity where the patients were taking 350+mg, well over the 250mg used for depersonalization. Just so you know, I also felt "weird" around 100mg. Like my mind was stuck between a normal and depersonalized state, which was only exacerbated by anxiety. Once I relaxed, and let the medication take effect, I felt loads better. Currently on 250mg and yes I feel less in a daze, less in a trance. I have actual spontaneous emotions. I tried the London mix for 6 months and I felt closer to reality but it wasn't genuine so to speak. Now I actually feel better, my vision is clearer, me head feels lighter, my laughter is genuine, and I have goals. Chris I hope you understand that its very unlikely any medication will completely "snap" you out of this. Its up to you to finish that last lap towards recovery. I'm sorry if I sound patronizing, but I do have some experience on the subject, I've had DPD for over a decade.


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## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

No worries Sid.
And no you don't sound patronizing, I completely understand.

To be quite honest (I'm sure you've seen my other threads) I think that this combination of lamictal/klonopin/luvox works great for me. I"m not sure why I'm even lowering my kpin to be honest....neway, I also recently drank a little...and thats helped me a lot - eliminated my DPD completely!

I've been somewhat fortunate, as with the london combo...I can have no DPD at all (I'm sure their is something their in the background...but full emotions, sense of self, etc.) or have it full on sometimes....maybe i should just stick with what i have...

u know what they say, if its not broken don't fix it.
Chris


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## hd83 (Jan 10, 2006)

Hey Sid,

I'm also taking Naltrexone - 50mg/day. I went up to...150 mg I think but not for that long (maybe a couple weeks) because I didn't have insurance, and it was VERY expensive. How long were you on the 150 mg before you started to notice a difference/improvement in your DP? I'm getting health insurance again - kicking in Sept. 1 through my employer. Just wondering if I should give it another shot since it won't be so expensive this time! Thanks so much!

Heather


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## sid172 (Jun 9, 2010)

hd83 said:


> Hey Sid,
> 
> I'm also taking Naltrexone - 50mg/day. I went up to...150 mg I think but not for that long (maybe a couple weeks) because I didn't have insurance, and it was VERY expensive. How long were you on the 150 mg before you started to notice a difference/improvement in your DP? I'm getting health insurance again - kicking in Sept. 1 through my employer. Just wondering if I should give it another shot since it won't be so expensive this time! Thanks so much!
> 
> Heather


Hello heather sorry it took me so long to get back to you I was in the process of moving. I would say it took about a week or two before I noticed a definite improvement. Please refer to my previous posts for more detailed descriptions. Good luck!


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