# The Ultimate Guide to Schizophrenia.



## Wendy

The Ultimate Guide to Schizophrenia.

More times than not, I'm greeted with this familiar phrase trickling it's way into the site: "I fear that I have Schizophrenia," followed with a discussion of scared individuals trying to work their brains around the idea of Schizophrenia, the fear of getting it and the urge to try and WebMD themselves with Psychosis. After seeing this happen way too often, I am taking the time to write this Ultimate Guide. I will be adding to this, with sources, so if you would like something to be stated inside of here and would like a better explanation to something, please comment and I'll shed some light on whatever it is you would like. As the preface, I will outline some of the things that I will be talking about, though:




Understanding Schizophrenia.



Knowing the difference between Schizophrenia and Dissociation.



Realizing that Dissociation can not lead into Schizophrenia.



Symptom differences between the two.


I will be posting this once in this blog and once in the forums so as to really raise awareness to this issue. I feel that people really need to understand what Schizophrenia or Psychosis is and I feel that people also need to realize that Schizophrenia is quite serious, but while serious, dissociation does not lead in Schizophrenia. I want people to understand that, just because you have this detachment from yourself or the world, does not mean that you have Schizophrenia or are slipping into Psychosis.

Understanding Schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia is a brain disorder that affects the way a person acts, thinks, and sees the world. People with Schizophrenia have an altered perception of reality, often a significant loss of contact with reality. They may see or hear things that do not exist, speak in a strange or confusing way, believe that others are trying to harm them or feel like they are being constantly watched. Some of you may be thinking to yourself, "Oh my.. I think oddly, I sometimes have delusional thoughts, I must be Schizophrenic!" - no, not exactly.

In nearly 100% of cases, people who have Schizophrenia have no idea that they have it. First, because it's a disease that first attacks your ability to recognize that you have it - social cues are the first sign, and they are very dramatic. Some of what is affected is your ability to respond to your name or having no regard for other people's personal space and/or property. You see, there needs to be extreme cases of multiple symptoms for someone to have Schizophrenia or be developing such disorder. Let's move on to the causes, just to back up what I previously said.

The causes of Schizophrenia are prominently genetic, coupled with environmental factors. Schizophrenia has a strong hereditary component to which individuals with a first-degree relative (parents of sibling) who has Schizophrenia have a 10 percent chance of developing the disorder, as opposed to the one percent chance of the general population. The environmental factors are all based around extreme levels of stress, which someone can be more prone too if:




They have prenatal exposure to a viral infection.



They have low oxygen levels during birth (prolonged labor or premature birth.



Exposed to a virus during infancy.



Experienced loss of early parental loss or separation.



Physical or sexual abuse in a childhood is prominent.


Even if you did have a family member with Schizophrenia and were involved in environmental factors, the percentage of you getting Schizophrenia is a near fraction of 1%. Especially if you are expressing your concern of getting it or already having it - like I said previously in this part of the guide, Schizophrenia first attacks your ability to recognize that you have it, then more dramatic symptoms become prominent in your life. Expressing concern and fear for getting Schizophrenia most likely means you don't have Schizophrenia.

Knowing the Difference Between Schizophrenia and Dissociation.

We've covered most of the things we needed to cover above to really understand Schizophrenia, how it works and how people get Schizophrenia, but let's take it one step further. Let's examine dissociation (Derealization and Depersonalization) and really back up the idea that you don't have Schizophrenia.

Depersonalization and Derealization are often interchangeable because they're so strikingly similar to each-other. Depersonalization is an anomaly of self-awareness. It consists of a feeling of being "robot-like", a "pair-of-eyes" or watching oneself act whilst having no control over the situation that oneself is inside of. Derealization, on the other hand, can experience the same thing, but is more inclined to believing that the external and immediate world around is dream-like, fake or sometimes even completely made up. People with dissociation have nearly the same symptoms - one way or another, things may not feel particularly real.

Dissociation, as the term used for grouping both disorders together, is often then confused with Schizophrenia due to their likenesses in symptoms:




Feeling unreal.



Delusions.



Hearing/Seeing things that aren't there.



Lack of Emotional Expressions.


Schizophrenia and Dissociation do share some similar attributes, but there is one huge difference between the two: people with dissociation are aware. Schizophrenics experience a loss of reality, but create a new one entirely - they have no awareness that the world they have created is fake or made up in their mind, they simply believe it to be true. The fact that dissociates are completely aware that they are "distant" is justification that they are, in fact, experiencing reality and not any form of Schizophrenia.

Many people with dissociation fear that they have Schizophrenia for some very common reasons: Obsessions over delusions, hearing things, visual snow, brain fog, etc.. All of these things are simply revolving around anxiety - which Depersonalization and Derealization are; they are based off of anxiety disorders and stress. I would check yourself out for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder before chalking something up to be Schizophrenia, there's more a chance of you just have a form of OCD than having actual Psychosis.

Derealization and Depersonalization cannot "slip you into Psychosis or Schizophrenia", it is based off of anxiety and that's all. If you had Schizophrenia, Derealization/Depersonalization would be a symptom among the many other extreme symptoms of Schizophrenia or Psychosis - just because you're dissociated from reality does not mean that you are going to Schizophrenia from dissociation itself.

Sources:

Schizophrenia: Signs, Types and Causes.


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## <AGENT>teh345

Thanks for bringing this one back.


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## Wendy

> teh345" data-cid="342204" data-time="1409669328">
> 
> Thanks for bringing this one back.


You're welcome!


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## Guest

People who had serious psychotic breakouts and then get medication know they are/were schizo, but in their first psychotic episode, they will not notice. It is MUCH more likely that your environment will see you acting crazy instead of you recognizing what you are doing is crazy. They usually (most cases) fear not their symptoms, but the things, that become real for them. They do not fear "omg pls i dont wanna think thats an agent that follows and murders me" but "oh god this guy will kill me". The selfreflection of schizos is extremely low. And, to be honest, most schizos i know, live a pretty normal life, if they take medication and dont do drugs.

Another interesting thing, a psychiatrist told me: usually schizos dont want to talk about their shit, if they are aware, they usually hide it and pretend everything is alright.


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## trey

i feel alot better after reading this , thank you very much!!


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## *Dreamer*

It's good to post this, but I have to make two remarks. Someone who HAS schizoprhenia or a psychotic disorder isn't "schizo" ... I despise that word. I work with people on a daily basis ... volunteer for NAMI ... who have all sorts of mental illness. Not one has the same experience. And when seriously ill -- true, someone in the middle of a psychotic episode loses insight, but if treated well, such an individual can even recall what occurred during that episode. Such an individual can also tell if they are getting worse.

And also, true, you cannot always tell if someone has schizoprhenia. Sometimes it is VERY obvious.

And the follow, is not true save for #1.



> Dissociation, as the term used for grouping both disorders together, is often then confused with Schizophrenia due to their likenesses in symptoms:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling unreal.
> 
> 
> 
> Delusions.
> 
> 
> 
> Hearing/Seeing things that aren't there.
> 
> 
> 
> Lack of Emotional Expressions.


Those of us who have a dissociative disorder -- specifically the perceptual distorition of DP/DR (and are NOT having this as a result of psychosis) -- yes, either feel AS IF parts of their body are distorted/not attached, etc. DP, or that the world is 2D, flat, dark DR. Feel AS IF they are dreaming, AS IF they are dead.

W*e do not have delusions, we do not hear or see things that aren't there. And if we have any lack of an emotional expression it may be from sadness or exhaustion. Not a completely "flat affect."*

*But definitely it is good to repeat that DP/DR IS NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO PSYCHOSIS. One can have psychosis AND experience DP/DR, anxiety, OCD, depression,etc. BUT if your PRIMARY diagnosis is DP/DR, you do NOT have schizophrenia or any type of psychosis.*

Also, I believe DP/DR should be in a category by itself.
Dissociative Amnesia/Fugue and DID, as well as DD NOS are different. All include amnesia for events.
Those with DP/DR do NOT have amnesia for events.

Also, DID has been linked more recently to BPD.

Please don't make it "US" vs. "THEM" -- t here are people I know who have bipolar with mania and controlled schizoprhenia who can accomplish more than I can in a day. And I hate to say this, but to me, the word "schitzo" is equivalent to the word "n***ger.

Someone isn't schizophrenic ... they HAVE schizophrenia.


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## *Dreamer*

Paranoia
Auditory hallucinations
Hearing voices
Abnormal thinking
Severe paranoid reaction

These are the definition of true delusions. We with a DP/DR diagnosis do not have these. For example I am yakking at myself in my head all the time. That is NOT the same as hearing a voice telling you to kill yourself. That you can actully hear speaking to you. Or the TV speaking to you, etc.

Sorry, edit again. Not all individuals who have schizoprhenia even know what I am talking about when I describe DP/DR.


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## *Dreamer*

http://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Mental-Health-Conditions/Schizophrenia

This is a more accurate guide to schizophrenia. From The National Alliance on Mental Illness


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## Wendy

*Dreamer* said:


> Paranoia
> Auditory hallucinations
> Hearing voices
> Abnormal thinking
> Severe paranoid reaction
> 
> These are the definition of true delusions. We with a DP/DR diagnosis do not have these. For example I am yakking at myself in my head all the time. That is NOT the same as hearing a voice telling you to kill yourself. That you can actully hear speaking to you. Or the TV speaking to you, etc.
> 
> Sorry, edit again. Not all individuals who have schizoprhenia even know what I am talking about when I describe DP/DR.


I'm going to respectfully disagree.

These delusions can, and sometimes are, present with individuals suffering from Depersonalization or Derealization. Paranoia and abnormal thinking, especially, as I can attest to having those thought processes before. As for auditory hallucinations, I'm not sure it's so far out of the realm of possibilities to see that people suffering from Depersonalization or Derealization could experience this. In fact, there are many people on this forum that have experienced this. So, in my opinion, I think that most of the things you've listed can be seen in people with Depersonalization.


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## *Dreamer*

SolomonOrlando said:


> I'm going to respectfully disagree.
> 
> These delusions can, and sometimes are, present with individuals suffering from Depersonalization or Derealization. Paranoia and abnormal thinking, especially, as I can attest to having those thought processes before. As for auditory hallucinations, I'm not sure it's so far out of the realm of possibilities to see that people suffering from Depersonalization or Derealization could experience this. In fact, there are many people on this forum that have experienced this. So, in my opinion, I think that most of the things you've listed can be seen in people with Depersonalization.


I appreciate that. I just have to go back to the most reliable diagnostic criteria that exist for DP/DR including the work of Mauricio Sierra and the IoP. Also, Marlene Steinberg, Abugel, etc.

I refer to DP/DR as a very specific syndrome ... that is the perceptual distortions we have -- essentially "feeling unreal" or rather we feel AS IF we are unreal. These symptoms can be short-lived or chronic. They can go into remission and then return. They may be accompanied by anxiety, accompanied by panic ... or one comes before the other -- I've given up on figuring that out.

My diagnosis for example has been for years Depersonalization Disorder. I also have comorbid anxiety (of a billion types) and clinical depression. Never once in my entire life has any therapist, psychiatrist or member of a support group heard my describe hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, etc. I don't experience these things as individuals who have these specific symptoms -- individuals I know who have psychotic disorders. And as noted, many of them do not understand what I mean by DP and DR. They do not have those specific symptoms.

Perhaps there is some splitting of hairs or a confusion of definitions. But for instance static in one's vision isn't a hallucination -- it is a disruption in the way the brain is interpreting incoming stimuli -- or as with floaters, they ARE there, we simply are overly conscous of them. If you read Oliver Sacks' book titled *Hallucinations*, a true hallucination would literally be seeing something that is not there -- such as tiny people dancing around on the floor in front of you. And there can be hallucinations that are totally harmless such as that in elderly blind people. Or for example someone in an isolation tank in total darkness for some time may see faces, hear phones ringing, etc. Thoses are hallucinations caused by stiumulus deprivation.

Could you give me an example of paranoia you have experienced?
Could ou give me an example of "abnormal thinking" -- I'm not sure what that means.
And auditory hallucinations are simply not in the diagnostic criteria for DP/DR. If someone is truly having a real auditory hallucination then they are experiencing another disorder that could have many sources. THINKING one hears something and worrying about it, is not the same as literally hearing something -- and with psychiatric disorders it is generally something sinister.

I'm not attacking you. Everything I have read about a diagnosis of DP/DR (most likely withanxiety -- which most folks have here) would not have paranoia, hallucinations as part of that diagnosis. Now one could see "the walls breathing" as I've heard here -- but that sounds like a symptom of HPPD for example, from drugs. HPPD is not psychosis.

I hope I am making sense. Perhaps I'm not.
Let me find the definition again in the Merck Manual.

I just like things to be clear. I think that DP/DR can be horrifying, and someone might think they are "going crazy" ... we know they are not. But if someone literally has DP/DR AND is truly hallucinating or has paranoia than the problem is something MORE than DP/DR alone. I guess that is my main point.


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## *Dreamer*

I guess I just like to be precise in what we are talking about, and have to depend solely on the best sources. Sierra (my best source, and the work at the IoP), and Steinberg.

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric_disorders/dissociative_disorders/depersonalization_disorder.html?qt=depersonalization%20disorder&alt=sh



> *Symptoms and Signs*
> Patients feel detached from their body, mind, feelings, or sensations. Most patients also say they feel unreal (derealization), like an automaton, or as if they were in a dream or in some other way detached from the world. Some patients cannot recognize or describe their emotions (alexithymia). Patients may describe themselves as the "walking dead." Symptoms are almost always distressing and, when severe, profoundly intolerable. Anxiety and depression are common.
> Symptoms are often chronic; about one third of patients have recurrent episodes, and two thirds have continuous symptoms. Episodic symptoms sometimes become continuous.
> Patients often have great difficulty describing their symptoms and may fear or believe they are going crazy. They always retain the knowledge that their unreal experiences are not real but rather are just the way that they feel. This awareness differentiates depersonalizationdisorder from a psychotic disorder, in which such insight is always lacking.


*That's it. If hallucinations or paranoia were a SYMPTOM of DP/DR, they would be mentioned here and they aren't.* Thinking one has these symptoms is not the same as having the symptoms.

And also, I have to respectfully clarify. And I think it is very important to make this clear to board members here.

Someone had the IoP definition up here. I'll find that. No mention of paranoia, hallucinations, etc. And no disrespect. Could you give me examples of your experience of what you would call paranoia, hallucations others have mentioned, etc.
Peace.

D


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## Wendy

I think we're having a split in communication here.

You seem to be saying something that I've already said in my original post, that people who experience these "symptoms" are still aware that they're detached. Which would be the opposite of someone who suffers from Schizophrenia, who creates another reality to justify those symptoms. Where you quoted the bullet points about "symptoms", the text below those points read:



> Schizophrenia and Dissociation do share some similar attributes, but there is one huge difference between the two: people with dissociation are aware. *Schizophrenics don't experience a loss of reality, but create a new one entirely* - they have no awareness that the world they have created is fake or made up in their mind, they simply believe it to be true.


The bold and underlined part is what you're trying to say in your posts, correct? I agree with you, unless I'm reading your posts wrong entirely.


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## *Dreamer*

> "Depersonalisation Disorder (DPD) constitutes, according to the Psychiatric Diagnostic and Statistic Manual (DSM) IV, 'a feeling of detachment or estrangement from one's self. The individual may feel like an automaton or as if he or she is living in a dream or a movie. There may be a sensation of being an outside observer of one's mental processes, one's body or parts of one's body.' People who experience depersonalisation may, at the same time, experience de-realisation, the sense that the external world is strange or unreal.
> 
> People with a major psychiatric disorder, including severe anxiety or panic disorder, depression, post traumatic stress disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder and schizophrenia, and people with neurological conditions such as migraine and epilepsy, can experience depersonalisation as a symptom. People who do not have mental health or neurological problems can also experience depersonalisation when they are in states of fatigue, fear, stress, emotional turmoil or meditation, or after taking drugs like cannabis or Ecstasy."


If someone presents to a psychiatrist with DP/DR *AND* actual hallucinations and paranoia, the diagnosis would move towards bipolar/mania, schizoprhenia, psychotic depression, etc.

Again, Solomon, you know I have great respect for you. I just get frustrated. I think some people terrify themselves and say "I am paranoid" when actually they may be overly self-conscious. Someone who is truly paranoid thinkis someone is following them, everywhere. I know a woman in my depression support group who also has paranoid personality disorder ... that is, it hasn't affected her work, but limits her social interactions. She doesn't trust anyone. She has few friends. She is certain people talk about her behind her back when this is NOT happening.

She SWEARS that someone has broken into her house (bypassing an alarm system) and rearranged clothes in her closet, moved furniture or small objects Stolen silverware and then brought it back. She also has called the police to report several men have been following her for the past ten years. One is a black man with dreadlocks. Another is a white man who looks like a skinhead.

The police have never found any proof of any of this. She literally believes theses things and shares these with us in group. She has nearly sued the police for not helping her, but we in the group know that these things are not happening. They couldn't be, etc.

Sometimes she stops bringing this up in group for months. Then sometimes when she is under stress it will come up again. There is no specific treatment for this type of paranoid thinking. And this would be a perfect example of paranoia by itself.

OK time for bed.
Again, in the spirit of clarity.


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## *Dreamer*

We DO agree on that post above.

But you also say that those of us with DP have paranoia, halucinations, etc. Can you give me specific examples?

What I challenged before is you said people with DP can have:




Feeling unreal.



Delusions.



Hearing/Seeing things that aren't there.



Lack of Emotional Expressions.

I am saying, "No." People with DP/DR ALONE as a diagosis or symptom, feel unreal, but do not have delusions, don't hear/see things that aren't there. And you also mentioned paranoia.

I agree in the first point. "Feeling Unreal." I suppose I could agree with the last. But the two highlighted in red. They do not fit the criteria for DP or DR.

I'll let it go! I'm tired.
Nite.


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## Wendy

*Dreamer* said:


> If someone presents to a psychiatrist with DP/DR *AND* actual hallucinations and paranoia, the diagnosis would move towards bipolar/mania, schizoprhenia, psychotic depression, etc.
> 
> Again, Solomon, you know I have great respect for you. I just get frustrated. I think some people terrify themselves and say "I am paranoid" when actually they may be overly self-conscious. Someone who is truly paranoid thinkis someone is following them, everywhere. I know a woman in my depression support group who also has paranoid personality disorder ... that is, it hasn't affected her work, but limits her social interactions.
> 
> She SWEARS that someone has broken into her house (bypassing an alarm system) and rearranged clothes in her closet, moved furniture or small objects Stolen silverware and then brought it back. She also has called the police to report several men have been following her for the past ten years. One is a black man with dreadlocks. Another is a white man who looks like a skinhead.
> 
> The police have never found any proof of any of this. She literally believes theses things and shares these with us in group. She has nearly sued the police for not helping her, but we in the group know that these things are not happening. They couldn't be, etc.
> 
> Sometimes she stops bringing this up in group for months. Then sometimes when she is under stress it will come up again. There is no specific treatment for this type of paranoid thinking. And this would be a perfect example of paranoia by itself.
> 
> OK time for bed.
> Again, in the spirit of clarity.


I have a great deal of respect for you too, I'm not trying to start an argument. In fact, I'm very much wanting to learn more and I'm happy if I get corrected, it gives me a chance to further my knowledge here. However, I think we have very different definitions of symptoms.

Paranoia, for example, has two different definitions.


A mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution, unwarranted jealousy, or exaggerated self-importance, typically elaborated into an organized system. It may be an aspect of chronic personality disorder, of drug abuse, or a serious condition such as schizophrenia in which the person loses touch with reality. 
Suspicion and mistrust of people or their actions without evidence or justification. 

I may generalize a certain symptom with a vague definition. When people come to the forum and say that they believe their food is poisoned or that their parents are out to hurt them, I say that's paranoia. Just as much as someone might say something as severe so as to warrant the first definition, which is also a viable description of paranoia. In my mind, there are "levels" to certain things. In both cases of paranoia above, we can safely use the word paranoia, because both would fall under such definition - but both are varying in severity.



> What I challenged before is you said people with DP can have:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feeling unreal.
> 
> 
> 
> Delusions.
> 
> 
> 
> Hearing/Seeing things that aren't there.
> 
> 
> 
> Lack of Emotional Expressions.


Delusions are the same thing.

The definition of delusion has a variety of meanings. The one that you're thinking of is the strong conviction one might hold to something, regardless of the contradictory evidence. My definition (only in certain cases, mind you) is simply a belief held that is not true - a false belief. I rarely use the word delusion when I speak to people and I actually, in most posts, tell them that they're overly conscious (like you said originally). I only use the word delusion in this post because I'm generalizing a train of thinking with the latter definition of "false beliefs", which can encompass many different trains of thought when you're suffering from Depersonalization.

As for hearing/seeing things that aren't there, it's the same generalizing concept. The point of this "guide" was to help people with their fears of turning Schizophrenic - people can hear and see things that don't appear there without having Schizophrenia. Meaning, if I hear my name being called and no calls it, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from a severe disorder. If I see a shadow in the corner of my eye, again, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from something like psychosis.

I note the difference between these two symptoms in both the weaker cases (Depersonalization, by use of generalizing symptoms) and the severe cases (in or relating to major psychosis or Schizophrenia). However, I think you're correct in the sense that I need to clarify more of what I'm trying to discuss. Keep in mind that this post was almost seven months old - since then, I've taken many hiatuses from the site in order to apply for several different colleges (degree in Psychology) and am actually attending college now.

So, between previous administration deleting all of my posts, a number of hacking attempts on the community, and several examples of defacement in posts by previous moderators (that have been promptly banned months ago), I haven't had much time to go over and edit prior posts - including this one. I hope to learn more and, soon, clarify what I mean by all this in a better, more substantial post, that we can both agree on wholly. I never was a psychologist and don't plan to communicate that I am one until I have my degree. This post can contain errors and misrepresentation. I apologize widely for anything here that might have rubbed you the wrong way.

In short, this is miscommunication at it's finest - which is my fault and I apologize. I intend to come back and fix this post at a later date.


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## *Dreamer*

SolomonOrlando said:


> As for hearing/seeing things that aren't there, it's the same generalizing concept. The point of this "guide" was to help people with their fears of turning Schizophrenic - people can hear and see things that don't appear there without having Schizophrenia. Meaning, if I hear my name being called and no calls it, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from a severe disorder. If I see a shadow in the corner of my eye, again, that doesn't mean I'm suffering from something like psychosis.
> 
> I note the difference between these two symptoms in both the weaker cases (Depersonalization, by use of generalizing symptoms) and the severe cases (in or relating to major psychosis or Schizophrenia). However, I think you're correct in the sense that I need to clarify more of what I'm trying to discuss. Keep in mind that this post was almost seven months old - since then, I've taken many hiatuses from the site in order to apply for several different colleges (degree in Psychology) and am actually attending college now.
> 
> So, between previous administration deleting all of my posts, a number of hacking attempts on the community, and several examples of defacement in posts by previous moderators (that have been promptly banned months ago), I haven't had much time to go over and edit prior posts - including this one. I hope to learn more and, soon, clarify what I mean by all this in a better, more substantial post, that we can both agree on wholly. I never was a psychologist and don't plan to communicate that I am one until I have my degree. This post can contain errors and misrepresentation. I apologize widely for anything here that might have rubbed you the wrong way.
> 
> In short, this is miscommunication at it's finest - which is my fault and I apologize. I intend to come back and fix this post at a later date.


*Good Grief, man. No apologies.
I see what you are saying.
And I also understand the past upheaval on the Board really messed a lot of stuff up!*

My final comment -- and I realize this is really not an easy topic to clarify to most people -- is,

if anyone were to take an exam in university on the question:
"Please list the symptoms of Depersonalization/Derealization Disorder (as it is now called in the DSM-5)"

A correct answer -- in strict medical terminology -- *would not include ... well really the last three things you listed.*
As a psychology or medical student, one would get that answer incorrect on the exam -- it would be assumed the student did not understand the correct criteria.

Many people without DP or any mental disorder can think someone called their name when no one actually did. Many healthy people also "catch something out of the corner of their eye." It is just like many "healthy" individuals do experience DP/DR ... for shorter periods of time ... and completely forget about it ... just like very brief episodes of deja-vu. I have a girlfriend (no issues) who on occasion has felt "too small" outdoors. She never thought anythng of it ... again a brief deja-vu type of experience. "Glitches like this are normal."

Those of us with DP/DR and anxiety and who worry ourselves sick blow these things way out of proportion.

On the other hand -- you mentioned someone here felt they were being poisoned. If they REALLY believed that, that would NOT be a symptom of DP/DR at all -- and they should seek help for paranoia as a symptom of any number of forms of psychosis. They may have DP too, but that would then not be the primary problem.

If they were obsessing that someone MIGHT poison their food, but didn't really believe it, but was just over analyzing everything -- that would be anxiety related or perhaps OCD related -- not part of DP/DR in any way.

Absolutely NO debate here -- after all these years I am simply a stickler for the right info on mental health issues -- SO many people "don't get it" anyway -- SO frustrating. I was actually more angry at the term "schizo" being thrown around. Errr, I HATE that term!

Life is truly confusing. And DP/DR, even moreso.
NO argument, and no worries, and NO need to apologize! 
And congrats on pursuing a psych degree in college!


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## eter

I have had a few hallucinations in my life. For me it is a huge difference between a hallucination, and percieving things in my surroundings oddly. If anyone has questions regarding how they differ, just from a fellows perspective, you are welcome to write. Good post, good discussion.


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## Mochan

I had what I believe was an auditory hallucination once a few months ago (heard my niece call my name). I'm still scared as hell, and still trying to figure out if I didn't just hear my neighbour's kids call something similar to my name.


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## eter

Mochan said:


> I had what I believe was an auditory hallucination once a few months ago (heard my niece call my name). I'm still scared as hell, and still trying to figure out if I didn't just hear my neighbour's kids call something similar to my name.


I do not mean to make your experience seem small, but that is example of what I experiece daily, and refer to as "percieving things oddly". Just my own words for when I take in information, through my ears, or eyes, or my skin for that matter, and something in my head, distorts the information. So I percieve it oddly. An example of an hallucination I have had, is a very big, yellow, and angry piece of lego with eyes, just standing in one of my cellarrooms. I felt like I really saw it, with my own eyes. I, of course, were utterly chocked, and surprised, and on the verge of terror, when I realised what had happened. I had an hallucination. Hearing my name calling, the phone ringing, a radioprogramme, when nobody is here, I have no phone, no radio, that is me like combining fragments of lots of information, both from my senses, but also, fragments from my mind, like memories, into a concept of some kind. It is a process of in my case, a mind with very weak walls. It is caused by processes in the present. I can relate to my conclusions in some rational way, when percieving oddly. With hallucinations, I mean, they do not feel like something that comes, from me, I feel no relation, and they, when they occur, the very second, they are real, without any question, to me, and I always feel an amount of terror, without even having a second to think.


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## 106473

Yeah basically DP doesn't come with Delusions, but you can have Delusions and have DP.

Just like you can have a cold and a sore toe.

Anyway, i've had medical delusions so i'll tell you what it was like for me. I was bumped all the way up to 800mg Quietapine, which is not normal dose to be handing out but they really wanted to see if I had bipolar, turns out I have hypo maina from Cushings Syndrome, so they were half right lets say.

Visual - I had one visual - It was a line in my vision and out popped a silly sized fly, knew it wasn't real, it didn't even look real and I had only started this dose.

Audio - This happened until I got off it and always happened an hour or two after I took it (at night). I'd hear this faint acoustic guitar, so far away, at one point I actually got frustrated and checked my house for no reason other than to tell myself look this isn't real.

Safe to say I quit that medication pretty quickly and cold turkey as I was not having anymore of that and over night it went away, but that's medically induced.

Someone I know, can't take Vallium (benzodiazepine) because they see shadows and have even thought they heard someone coming into the room type thing, quit the med and takes Clonazepam (benzodiazepine) and has never had it again.


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## leminaseri

this is a very good post but we can have dissociation and schizophrenia at same time unfortunately..


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## Psyborg

I dont think it is that simple or black and white

mental illnesses and disorders often overlap with each other

you can experience psychosis without being a schizophrenic . and that dp/dr cant kick you into psychosis is in MY opinion not correct . dp/dr doesnt kick you into psychosis itself but since dp/dr creates extreme stress I think it is very possible to become psychotic if you are vulnerable towards it because some people like me are more prone to become psychotic than others when there is extreme stress on their minds

I was also freaking out from the thought of going psychotic . but at anybody reading this and freaking out that he/she will go psychotic : you dont need to be scared . it is treatable . it is not the end of the world . I wish I didnt freak out back then


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## Laurany152

This is a great post. My son has been diagnosed with Schizophrenia and when he first started experiencing symptoms I had to go pick him up from school numerous times until I had to withdrawal him because he was certain that the people was planning to blow him up and had planted a bomb in his back pack. The last time was the worst and He was hiding in the counselors office till I got there. I took him straight to the doctor and they hospitalized him. I couldn't take him anywhere in the beginning cause he was certain "people" were following us and plotting against us. Obviously things escalated but that was how it started with him.


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## Bojackhorseman

I would just like to point out, and further what someone else said, that dp/dr are symptoms of schizophrenia, particularly when in its early stages. This is well documented. They are prodromal symptoms. Some argue that depersonalization is central to schizophrenic pathology, and that it resembles a “prepsychotic” state. Then it goes away as the psychosis becomes more prevalent. Also schizophrenia is a large spectrum, not just paranoia. In the olden days there was a type of schizophrenia called pseudoneurotic schizophrenia, characterized by “pan-anxiety” and dp/dr. Sounds a lot like 3/4 of the members in this forum. And it was technically classified as a schizophrenia and was chronic, nonremitting, and sometimes developed into overt schizophrenia.


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## leminaseri

Bojackhorseman said:


> I would just like to point out, and further what someone else said, that dp/dr are symptoms of schizophrenia, particularly when in its early stages. This is well documented. They are prodromal symptoms. Some argue that depersonalization is central to schizophrenic pathology, and that it resembles a “prepsychotic” state. Then it goes away as the psychosis becomes more prevalent. Also schizophrenia is a large spectrum, not just paranoia. In the olden days there was a type of schizophrenia called pseudoneurotic schizophrenia, characterized by “pan-anxiety” and dp/dr. Sounds a lot like 3/4 of the members in this forum. And it was technically classified as a schizophrenia and was chronic, nonremitting, and sometimes developed into overt schizophrenia.


what the fuck do you bastard want? fucking moron


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## leminaseri

Bojackhorseman said:


> I would just like to point out, and further what someone else said, that dp/dr are symptoms of schizophrenia, particularly when in its early stages. This is well documented. They are prodromal symptoms. Some argue that depersonalization is central to schizophrenic pathology, and that it resembles a “prepsychotic” state. Then it goes away as the psychosis becomes more prevalent. Also schizophrenia is a large spectrum, not just paranoia. In the olden days there was a type of schizophrenia called pseudoneurotic schizophrenia, characterized by “pan-anxiety” and dp/dr. Sounds a lot like 3/4 of the members in this forum. And it was technically classified as a schizophrenia and was chronic, nonremitting, and sometimes developed into overt schizophrenia.


ban this motherfucker from the site he joined 1h ago to post such a reply to troll us and make people fear. btw you fucking moron pseudoneurotic schizophrenia has nothing to do with dpdr or anxiety it is the old name for schizotypal personality disorder.


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## leminaseri

Bojackhorseman said:


> I would just like to point out, and further what someone else said, that dp/dr are symptoms of schizophrenia, particularly when in its early stages. This is well documented. They are prodromal symptoms. Some argue that depersonalization is central to schizophrenic pathology, and that it resembles a “prepsychotic” state. Then it goes away as the psychosis becomes more prevalent. Also schizophrenia is a large spectrum, not just paranoia. In the olden days there was a type of schizophrenia called pseudoneurotic schizophrenia, characterized by “pan-anxiety” and dp/dr. Sounds a lot like 3/4 of the members in this forum. And it was technically classified as a schizophrenia and was chronic, nonremitting, and sometimes developed into overt schizophrenia.


i bet this motherfucker is tdx


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## Bojackhorseman

Not sure why you're bugging out at me, I'm just sharing knowledge I've gathered. Some studies have shown that large proportions of patients with depersonalization disorder also experience Schneider's first rank symptoms, questioning the boundaries of these diagnostic categories anyway. Saying that depersonalization is a distinct entity unrelated to any other psychopathology is misinformation. It is not always "just a simple reaction to anxiety". It is a manifestation of severe ego-loss and accompanies very severe psychiatric disorders. Yes, sometimes someone just experiences a traumatic event and then acutely develops depersonalization, but that's far from always being the case. Pseudoneurotic schizophrenia was a category of schizophrenia, whereby the main symptoms were severe chronic neurosis anxiety symptoms, but the "basic symptoms" of schizophrenia were also present (autism, ambivalence, loosening of associations, and disturbances in affect). Stop trolling me just because you're bored.


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## leminaseri

Bojackhorseman said:


> Not sure why you're bugging out at me, I'm just sharing knowledge I've gathered. Some studies have shown that large proportions of patients with depersonalization disorder also experience Schneider's first rank symptoms, questioning the boundaries of these diagnostic categories anyway. Saying that depersonalization is a distinct entity unrelated to any other psychopathology is misinformation. It is not always "just a simple reaction to anxiety". It is a manifestation of severe ego-loss and accompanies very severe psychiatric disorders. Yes, sometimes someone just experiences a traumatic event and then acutely develops depersonalization, but that's far from always being the case. Pseudoneurotic schizophrenia was a category of schizophrenia, whereby the main symptoms were severe chronic neurosis anxiety symptoms, but the "basic symptoms" of schizophrenia were also present (autism, ambivalence, loosening of associations, and disturbances in affect). Stop trolling me just because you're bored.


so you mean that everybody who got dp chronic (more than five years) has a very severe psychiatric disorder? schizophrenia DID and asperger mixed? i read mental health forums for over 10 years and never read such a fuckshit. i shit off the knowledge youve gathered.


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## Bojackhorseman

I see you are very angry, I meant no harm. I’m not sure what you are saying, are you saying you have schizophrenia DID and Asperger mixed? If so I’m sorry to hear that. I still don’t understand what you’re getting so mad about. I’ve also unfortunately spent a very large amount of my life browsing pubmed and the likes.


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## leminaseri

Bojackhorseman said:


> I see you are very angry, I meant no harm. I’m not sure what you are saying, are you saying you have schizophrenia DID and Asperger mixed? If so I’m sorry to hear that. I still don’t understand what you’re getting so mad about. I’ve also unfortunately spent a very large amount of my life browsing pubmed and the likes.


no i dont have any of the mentioned illnesses. but you said it is related to very severe psychiatric disorders so i supposed i should have those three illnesses. 

you join here and your very first contribution is „dp is more than depersonalization disorder“ or „it accompanies very severe psychiatric disorders.“ do you actually know what it can do to recently diagnosed people who are scared the death to become psychotic?


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