# MDMA to help heal depersonalization?



## 2141zach (Sep 14, 2015)

I have heard that MDMA helps treat PTSD and I have never done MDMA before I know that it has psychedelic effects and is stimulating. I have done adderall many times in the past because of a prescription so im comfortable with stimulants. And I have been smoking some weed with no problems. I have also heard that PTSD is related to DP. I was thinking mabey this would help in a low dose to process trauma or stress? What are your thoughts? Experiences?


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## inferentialpolice (Nov 26, 2012)

The MDMA trials for PTSD are titled "MDMA-*ASSISTED* psychotherapy, meaning that MDMA is used in part of the psychotherapy protocol of the study. The study protocol has as many as 30 psychotherapy sessions with only 3 or so of them involving MDMA. Those MDMA sessions are 8 hours long and are psychotherapy sessions with two therapists present and working with the patient the whole time. So this is quite a bit different than simply taking MDMA itself without psychotherapy, not to mention the fact that the MDMA used is prescription grade, not "street" grade containing god knows what else. Here is a link to some papers on that study, including the psychotherapy manual describing the therapies used: http://ge.tt/96GaRLb1?c

In my studied opinion persistent DP without medical explanation (eg, brain lesion, side-effects of drug that is on board, etc) is trauma-related, so yes it is related to PTSD. As with PTSD, treatment involves being able to "process" one's traumas, which for dissociative expressions means the psychodynamic process of re-integrating one's consciousness so that one's memory and feelings are not behind a dissociative barrier.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

MDMA is neurotoxic and kill serotonergic neurons and can cause DP-disorder and HPPD by itself.


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## 2141zach (Sep 14, 2015)

inferentialpolice said:


> The MDMA trials for PTSD are titled "MDMA-*ASSISTED* psychotherapy, meaning that MDMA is used in part of the psychotherapy protocol of the study. The study protocol has as many as 30 psychotherapy sessions with only 3 or so of them involving MDMA. Those MDMA sessions are 8 hours long and are psychotherapy sessions with two therapists present and working with the patient the whole time. So this is quite a bit different than simply taking MDMA itself without psychotherapy, not to mention the fact that the MDMA used is prescription grade, not "street" grade containing god knows what else. Here is a link to some papers on that study, including the psychotherapy manual describing the therapies used: http://ge.tt/96GaRLb1?c
> 
> In my studied opinion persistent DP without medical explanation (eg, brain lesion, side-effects of drug that is on board, etc) is trauma-related, so yes it is related to PTSD. As with PTSD, treatment involves being able to "process" one's traumas, which for dissociative expressions means the psychodynamic process of re-integrating one's consciousness so that one's memory and feelings are not behind a dissociative barrier.


Mmm that is very interesting but I would think that someone could use MDMA with the right plan and mindset to help heal themselves possibly without the assistance of a therapist although i'm sure that is much more beneficial to have one. I have the ability to buy pure MDMA online.



TDX said:


> MDMA is neurotoxic and kill serotonergic neurons and can cause DP-disorder and HPPD by itself.


Yes I am aware of this, but I don't think it causes DP but triggers it many drugs can trigger it. DP is something I should be and am processing its not something I can't get out of and these drugs don't cause DP our minds do and I think its something we can work through to get better permanently. Why cant MDMA or a similar treatment be the catalyst to the healing process? I wouldnt want anyone to take a drug like this if they are in the thick of DP but I'm not I just want to process these things to help my mind heal so I don't go through this again and also take better care of my mind.


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## inferentialpolice (Nov 26, 2012)

The posited way these drugs contribute to trauma healing is that they let a person introspect regarding adverse experiences without flipping out. The act of introspection can have a "memory processing" effect whereby the memories no longer promote a phobic response, this being similar to someone desensitizing over their phobia of spiders or elevators or flying by titrating an experience that is otherwise triggering. The drugs or the hypnosis or the suggested visualization or similar techniques afford the ability to face one's ghosts without decompensating.

I think you are suggesting that one can travel though the lion's den of experiences with no other guide than a tempered state induced by self-administering the drugs, and to end up the better for it. Anecdotally its been claimed to have happened, but more often its been claimed that a drug disinhibited the user so that capped ego-states were unleashed, hence the 16% or so of those on this list (and TDX's warning above) who claim that drugs have promoted rather than diminish DP symptoms.


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## 2141zach (Sep 14, 2015)

Well isn't the only way to fix DP, by yourself? I see no reason why someone wouldn't be able to benefit from this by self administering this on there own if they approach it with the right mindset and respect. I am confused about the statistic you gave? Does that mean 16% of people suffering from DP who used MDMA had a negative impact on their symptoms as a result?


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## inferentialpolice (Nov 26, 2012)

No, I believe the 16% statistic is the proportion of DP sufferers who feel their DP DISORDER originated with drug use. The mechanism for this is I believe the disinhibition of affect alllowed by the drug. Your use of MDMA without therapeutic preparation risks similar decompensating effects.


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## 2141zach (Sep 14, 2015)

Oh ok. The risk is definitely there, thanks for the information. I wonder, of that 16% how much was related to MDMA? Because it seems different from hallucinogens in that it can reduce fear and at the same time allow you to process trauma. Is that correct?


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## inferentialpolice (Nov 26, 2012)

Yes that is the idea with psychedelics like MDMA, though how does one know in advance if the lowered guard to facing one's ghosts will be overwhelming or remediating? -- using the drugs in the context of a therapeutic relationship with a knowledgable therapist who has laid the grounding-work is a risk-minimization/maximizing-benefit-enhancing-potential move.


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

I've tried MDMA a few times in the past. I've tried 'pure' stuff which made me energetic for about 6 hours and the pill form probably cut with god knows what. The euphoria and feelings of love and trustworthiness felt artificial and forced to me, I can see how it may enhance the more real feelings one may experience during therapy, not just on its own. The feeling of dysphoria I had afterwards far outweighs any benefit I would get from it. I now take the phrase 'suicide tuesday' very seriously since the comedown can last several days, so I'm never going to take it again.


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## 2141zach (Sep 14, 2015)

inferentialpolice said:


> Yes that is the idea with psychedelics like MDMA, though how does one know in advance if the lowered guard to facing one's ghosts will be overwhelming or remediating? -- using the drugs in the context of a therapeutic relationship with a knowledgable therapist who has laid the grounding-work is a risk-minimization/maximizing-benefit-enhancing-potential move.


Good point that makes a lot of sense. The context of the experience has a huge impact on the outcome and the experience itself. I could also see having a therapist there as being comforting as well, besides the fact that they are guiding you through a process to heal yourself.



Alex617 said:


> I've tried MDMA a few times in the past. I've tried 'pure' stuff which made me energetic for about 6 hours and the pill form probably cut with god knows what. The euphoria and feelings of love and trustworthiness felt artificial and forced to me, I can see how it may enhance the more real feelings one may experience during therapy, not just on its own. The feeling of dysphoria I had afterwards far outweighs any benefit I would get from it. I now take the phrase 'suicide tuesday' very seriously since the comedown can last several days, so I'm never going to take it again.


Unfortunately I have experienced many horrible adderall come downs from when I abused it in the past so I know all to well how this feels. What dose did you take if you don't mind me asking? This was obviously not in a therapeutic setting i'm assuming. Was DP ever triggered after using MDMA?


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

2141zach said:


> Unfortunately I have experienced many horrible adderall come downs from when I abused it in the past so I know all to well how this feels. What dose did you take if you don't mind me asking? This was obviously not in a therapeutic setting i'm assuming. Was DP ever triggered after using MDMA?


I can't say I remember the dose, however it was more than enough to get most experienced users to where they want to be. It was in a nightclub so not exactly therapeutic. It did not trigger DP/DR however the depression I experienced was unlike anything I could experience on my own. I'm sure this was one of the many components leading to me feeling worse off in general, and get the panic attack I had while smoking marijuana.

In retrospect I wish I was much more cautious with experimenting with these things, knowing now how fragile a mind can be and how much better a sober mind can be. However I did not know at the time so not much I can do about it other than not repeat the mistakes.


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## 2141zach (Sep 14, 2015)

Alex617 said:


> I can't say I remember the dose, however it was more than enough to get most experienced users to where they want to be. It was in a nightclub so not exactly therapeutic. It did not trigger DP/DR however the depression I experienced was unlike anything I could experience on my own. I'm sure this was one of the many components leading to me feeling worse off in general, and get the panic attack I had while smoking marijuana.
> 
> In retrospect I wish I was much more cautious with experimenting with these things, knowing now how fragile a mind can be and how much better a sober mind can be. However I did not know at the time so not much I can do about it other than not repeat the mistakes.


Yea I decided to stop using marijuana and all psychedelic drugs until I get better. I just have xanax for just in case situations. I am now really starting to realize how much this stems from anxiety then I did before. I attributed the cause of my wierd thoughts to some other reason but I think it all stems from anxiety and stress related anxiety. Wish I could take some time off for myself but I have to keep going to trade school. Im getting better though and will have a new respect for how to take care of my mind and thought process. There is a lot outside of me that I can't control and its very frustrating sometimes. I need a break.


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