# JDTIC - Drug for DP/DR Symptoms. Interest Needed.



## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Hello,

Basically, their is a new drug that has been developed for Depersonalization / Derealization symptoms but it can only be synthasised if enough people decide to go through with buying it. It's still a research chemical at this stage but if more people decide to take interest over at Longe City then this stuff will be made and will help with your symptoms, and could even get rid of them completely. In fact it was made for Depersonalization / Derealization.

Take a look here about the chemical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDTic

Go here if you are interested, then you can join the forum and let them know that you want to be part of the group buy so you can get this stuff. That's if enough people decide they want it.

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/63691-jdtic-kappa-antagonist-bulkgroup-buy/

If there are any questions you would like answered then just let me know, or post a question on the forum...

Thanks for looking.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

I concur; this is currently the best chance at having a proper pharmacological treatment for DP.

The reason Naloxone and Naltrexone have been used is for their Kappa Opioid Receptor antagonism; these have proven beneficial, with Naloxone completely abolishing symptoms in a portion of patients. Problem is that Naltrexone and Naloxone also antagonize other opioid receptors, then there's Naloxone which has to be administered intravenously, and Naltrexone tends not to be tolerable at dosages where it antagonizes the KOR sufficiently.

I made a post here explaining a bit more, though the Longecity thread explains it in more detail.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

odisa said:


> I concur; this is currently the best chance at having a proper pharmacological treatment for DP.
> 
> The reason Naloxone and Naltrexone have been used is for their Kappa Opioid Receptor antagonism; these have proven beneficial, with Naloxone completely abolishing symptoms in a portion of patients. Problem is that Naltrexone and Naloxone also antagonize other opioid receptors, then there's Naloxone which has to be administered intravenously, and Naltrexone tends not to be tolerable at dosages where it antagonizes the KOR sufficiently.
> I made a post here explaining a bit more, though the Longecity thread explains it in more detail.


Have u actually taken this substance urself?


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Meh. The heart issues seem rather benign, moreover transient. Essentially a non-issue IMO.

Not yet missjess, but I plan to.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

The heart issues have only been recoded on one person. I have, however tried Salvia divinorum which also causes Ventricular tachycardia and have had no issues with it. Just make sure you start of with a very low dose of this stuff, I don't really know at what dose this stuff is active at but I can tell you if it's anything like salvia without the hallucinations then I'll be very happy indeed. That stuff blew my anxiety / depression away.

You can read more about it here

http://jdtic.com/

It's to prove that it's safe and that it has been in trial sinse 2011. I would think it's advisable to get your blood pressure / health checked first though just incase you have high blood pressure or something. We will keep you posted if we find anymore human trials.



> I have severe Major Depression [ed: PHQ-9 score of 22]. I have Anheodnia, no emotions, very few
> feelings, and avoliton. I have severe anxiety. I can hardly speak. I only
> answer questions. I do not engage in social conversations because of my severe
> thought poverty and inability to process the emotional content in
> ...


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Quote from http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/593319-JDTic-The-first-orally-active-kappa-antagonist


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

I think it would be nothing like Salvia, considering it is theoretically the exact opposite.
Thanks for posting that quote. Totally forgot about it. Seems to be the only report other than David Pearce's.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2013)

If Naloxone and Naltrexone can snap some people back to reality, then I don't see why something like JDTic couldn't help snap some people back to reality.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Well I'm pretty confident in this stuff anyway, I think its mechanism of action would be to pull your subconscious thoughts through into your conscious so you end up being able to resolve them and so you come to see how not that much of an issue they are. I'm not quite sure but all I know is, it must also have anti-psychotic properties that would also benefit DP/DR patients as JDTic, as odisa said has the complete opposite effect and salvia divinorum causes psychosis.

If you guys don't want to try it then me and odisa will. If you are interested in trying it then good but it's best to start of with something like 1mg, take a day break then go to 2mg and take a day break etc until you find the correct dose for you. I think the highest dose ever recorded was 10mg or something like that according to jdtic.com.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

odisa said:


> Meh. The heart issues seem rather benign, moreover transient. Essentially a non-issue IMO.
> Not yet missjess, but I plan to.


Please keep us informed if u do!!!

I wonder if it could snap people back into reality...would we experience anxiety once being snapped out of dissociation? ...


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

missjess said:


> Please keep us informed if u do!!!
> 
> I wonder if it could snap people back into reality...would we experience anxiety once being snapped out of dissociation? ...


Well, I think it depends on how bad your DP/DR is. All I know is when I came out of it once before I did suffer from some anxiety because everything seemed "new" to me as to say. It was hard getting used to the vision but even if you do it should subside after awhile anyway. You'll get used to it.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

*inviting derp to topic*


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Funky Buddha said:


> Well, I think it depends on how bad your DP/DR is. All I know is when I came out of it once before I did suffer from some anxiety because everything seemed "new" to me as to say. It was hard getting used to the vision but even if you do it should subside after awhile anyway. You'll get used to it.


How did u get out of dpdr ? From this drug ??


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

No. Sometimes, like maybe once or twice a year everything goes back to normal. The longest my DP/DR has gone away for is three days, then it came back. All I remember doing the day before is going to the beach with my friends in the sun, drinking a lot of water and coke and just talking. I walked home feeling really anxious, then the next day I was DP/DR free. :L although, I still had a bit of confusion going on.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

I find it odd not more people are interested in this..
Funky Buddha; are you going to try NSI-189 as well?
There seem to be reports of improvements in autobiographical memory retrieval as well as formation.


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

so many questions

Where can i get it if im in Europe? is it illegal? addictive? in what form do you take it..? price?


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

To clarify once more:

This substance is currently NOT available via your doctor or any common alternative routes.
It MAY be illegal depending on your country's analogue acts (due to it being an opioidergic drug), but it's unlikely to be so.
It is NOT addictive.
It's meant to be taken sublingually (under the tongue) or swallowed orally.
Price depends on how many people show interest in buying. The more people who buy, the cheaper it gets.


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

anyone that has taken it yet can testify..?


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

BTW: when is it expected to be released?


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

There have only been 2 people on earth who have posted their experiences online; one of which seems to have questionable validity to them. Due to benign complications in preliminary trials, a study-stopping rule was implemented, hence research has been discontinued, or at least suspended. JDTic is unlikely to be available via the usual methods (doctor) this decade.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Well I sure as hell wouldn't buy it without it being tested and knowing it won't do any damage to my brain


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Pity.. hard to make progress without taking risks.
It has been tested, just not chronic administration, but preliminary evidence suggests it's safe.
Then again; this is for people who are willing to take that risk, and for whom the perceived risk:benefit ratio is worth trying.
That, and it's also quite unlikely to cause any brain damage.. seems more likely to attenuate it. But that's my personal opinion.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Hmmm well unfortunately I am not in that minority who would be willing to take that risk, I would wait and see the results of others who try it


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

odisa said:


> There have only been 2 people on earth who have posted their experiences online; one of which seems to have questionable validity to them. Due to benign complications in preliminary trials, a study-stopping rule was implemented, hence research has been discontinued, or at least suspended. JDTic is unlikely to be available via the usual methods (doctor) this decade.


and the other guy?


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> I find it odd not more people are interested in this..
> Funky Buddha; are you going to try NSI-189 as well?
> There seem to be reports of improvements in autobiographical memory retrieval as well as formation.


Well actually, I have no idea if I can. I mean, I don't know if both drugs will interact with each other in some way. :/ I will be looking to trying both drugs though. I think my main interest at the moment in on JDTic. I don't really have that much faith on NSI-189 to cure my depression. I don't see how it works if the depression is caused by something else such as a omega 3 deficiency etc...

With the JDTic, it looks really good and hope I can get permanent effects from it. I was thinking of taking it with some other herbs to maybe strengthen my heart if it does interact with it in some way... I would like to make my heart healthy to prevent any burnout or something...


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Hello All,

This stuff is going to go ahead, so, we need as many people to buy this stuff as possible and who knows you might get is cheaper if we can get a lot of people to buy this stuff.

It's going to be really beneficial to all of your DP/DR and might cure it. If you want some of this stuff then come join LongeCity and post a message in the link below that you want to be part of the group buy.

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/63691-jdtic-kappa-antagonist-bulkgroup-buy

If you have any questions then feel free to ask. We already have 15+ and counting people interested so buy this stuff while it's still available. Get as many people to buy this if you can.

Cheers

Kieran


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

You can contact the supplier here:

[email protected]


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

If anyone does buy and try this plz update results here I would be very interested to see


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Good news Funky Buddha!
However, I'd personally prefer to wait until feedback is posted from his previous group buy (NSI-189).
Don't get me wrong; I appreciate what Veritatis is doing, but that doesn't take away that he has little reputation or confirmation of legitimacy.
That said; it's a relief to finally see this making progress. Hope we all get a chance to try JDTic soon


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2013)

I'll believe this when I see it.

I was told dissociative disorders are not chemical imbalances in the brain.

Anyway, I'm patient. When I see the results, I'll believe it.


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

so when do we get the response from the first test group ?


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

AMUNT said:


> so when do we get the response from the first test group ?


When someone decides to get in contact with their lab to make the stuff. At the moment we are finding someone with a lab, which shouldn't be too long now. We will keep you updated when we find someone who is willing to make the stuff...


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Okay, so just to keep you guys updated. The guy who is willing to make this stuff for us said that he needs at least 50 to 100 people interested in the stuff before it can be made. If their is not enough people, we will not get JDTic.

If you are interested in taking part in buying the stuff, which is quite cheap anyway ( not quite sure, but it cannot be anymore than £50 ) then please send me an email, or go over to LongeCity and post a message saying you're interested. It will be worth it. :smile:

Any questions feel free to ask. He will be using PayPal. (as it's safe).

Many thanks, and happy new year!


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Funky Buddha said:


> Okay, so just to keep you guys updated. The guy who is willing to make this stuff for us said that he needs at least 50 to 100 people interested in the stuff before it can be made. If their is not enough people, we will not get JDTic.
> 
> If you are interested in taking part in buying the stuff, which is quite cheap anyway ( not quite sure, but it cannot be anymore than £50 ) then please send me an email, or go over to LongeCity and post a message saying you're interested. It will be worth it. :smile:
> 
> ...


Send me the link to longecity...


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

edit: nevermind; I thought my post got deleted, but is was lost in updates. Can't remember what it was about, but for whoever is interested; check Longecity for updates.


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## CorbinTalbot (Nov 10, 2013)

Pass seems a bit crazy for a 17 year old


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

So only 2 peoole have tried it or was it 3?

Read on that longe city btw, said nothing about dp/dr


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

any news?


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

AMUNT said:


> any news?


I took what was allegedly ~250mcgs of JDTic; didn't notice anything positive nor negative. I'm working on acquiring a larger sample still, and have discovered LY2456302 in the meantime. This is a short-acting KOR antagonist currently being trialled for depression, and initial safety observations seem superior to that of JDTic.

on a side note; is that sarcastic about Geert Wilders being inspiring?


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

about the last sentence: no i rather die than let him die...


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Well when I took JDTic it did work, and I felt the best feeling ever. It was like it was Christmas and I was five years old in fact it was better than that but as we know something always is in the way and that's the chest sensations you get, it feels like your heart is being pulled away from your chest and it's hard to breathe properly, and you feel pretty "wired" too wired to the point where it makes you feel really anxious and that stuff can cause a panic attack if you didn't know how to control your emotions.

After the three hours of torture, I had the best afternoon of my life. Don't know if it was worth the money and the negative side effects though. If we can find a drug like JDTic "another kappa-opoid ant-agonist" that works without the VT I would be really happy. But I mean like, it wasn't just any old euphoria you get from other drugs, the mood you get from JDTic actually had feeling behind it. It felt natural.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

My vision was also mildly improved. It seemed more colorful and enhanced. Maybe if I took the stuff for a longer period of time it would have improved everything even more, who knows!

In all fairness, I believe the dose I took was really really high! The dose you need is miniscule. 100mcg. Maybe I wouldn't have felt the VT that much if I took the correct dose, or even somehow spaced it out as 50mcg then an hour later another 50mcg. But, I have no way of measuring that much out lol


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2014)

Sounds like hell for me.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

100mcg sounds like a small dose IMO. But glad it helped of course 

Anyhow, I've recently discovered 2 new KOR antagonists that have been tested in humans, namely LY2456302 and PF-04455242. I'll post more about that later, but for now LY2456302 seems to be more expensive that JDTic. Not sure about PF-04455242 though. Interestingly, LY2456302 is now in trials for depression.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

CherryBlossom said:


> Sounds like hell for me.


It was hell, but the effects after were really good. I think another type of drug that will do the same without the negatives will be great.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> 100mcg sounds like a small dose IMO. But glad it helped of course
> 
> Anyhow, I've recently discovered 2 new KOR antagonists that have been tested in humans, namely LY2456302 and PF-04455242. I'll post more about that later, but for now LY2456302 seems to be more expensive that JDTic. Not sure about PF-04455242 though. Interestingly, LY2456302 is now in trials for depression.


I'm glad you've found a lot more alternatives. The negatives with JDTic aren't worth it although hopefully we can get another group buy going if they're not too expensive. I did take a look into the one you posted over at Longecity but found out that it has to be stored at -20C.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Funky Buddha said:


> I'm glad you've found a lot more alternatives. The negatives with JDTic aren't worth it although hopefully we can get another group buy going if they're not too expensive. I did take a look into the one you posted over at Longecity but found out that it has to be stored at -20C.


You'll find that most pharmaceuticals are listed as having to be stored at -20C. This is generally just to extend the expiration date, and not necessary in order to remain chemically stable or bioactive. If you don't plan on storing it for years, then a freezer or fridge should suffice. Yes, hopefully we can make it happen. I'm currently talking to someone who is equally ambitious about obtaining it, so perhaps we can come up with a way to make it affordable. I'll be sure to update if anything changes on that front.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> You'll find that most pharmaceuticals are listed as having to be stored at -20C. This is generally just to extend the expiration date, and not necessary in order to remain chemically stable or bioactive. If you don't plan on storing it for years, then a freezer or fridge should suffice. Yes, hopefully we can make it happen. I'm currently talking to someone who is equally ambitious about obtaining it, so perhaps we can come up with a way to make it affordable. I'll be sure to update if anything changes on that front.


Oh, that's fair enough. I like the sound of this one:

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/pz0206?lang=en&region=GB

Although, it doesn't state what the dose is in which you should use, nor dose it say anything about if it causes VT. Do you have any information on it that I could read? That would be really helpful, if not then don't worry. But yeah that's great news and thanks for the research into finding it.

Thanks again dude.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

I know I shouldn't say this, but the after-effects of JDTic are kinda addictive. I know it's sitting in my draw and that I shouldn't get it out but something is making me want to get it out and try it again. It's just knowing I feel like shit and I can feel great again by using it, after putting up with hell for 4 hours. Even though it causes Ventricular Tachycardias


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2014)

AMUNT said:


> and the other guy?


Dead apparently&#8230;


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2014)

Funky Buddha thanks for the post to see how addictions can start!
You see that this pill is bullshit right?
You only feel good after 3-4 hours of hell and You take So many risks.
And You only feel good when taking this pillSo for the rest of your life (and I am sure your life won't last that long with taking this pill) You take it go through hours of hell and Yeah.
I don't care if my post is going to be deleted But this is the Most stupid thing I have read on this board So far, and lord here are many stupid things to read.
Funky Buddha please stop that shit.
This thread should be deleted and there should be a warning on this board about this drug.
It is obviously dangerous.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

CherryBlossom said:


> Funky Buddha thanks for the post to see how addictions can start!
> You see that this pill is bullshit right?
> You only feel good after 3-4 hours of hell and You take So many risks.
> And You only feel good when taking this pillSo for the rest of your life (and I am sure your life won't last that long with taking this pill) You take it go through hours of hell and Yeah.
> ...


I'm not addicted! I just hate DP/DR. Yes, you're right it is a risk when taking it and like I said I don't take it anymore because of the risks and their are better alternatives such as other antagonists or NSI-189. With NSI-189, the effects are permanent after the new neurons have grown in the hippocampus. With JDTic, or other antagonists I'm guessing overtime your brain will rebuild the stimuli that causes the anxiety and stress. It will change the way you think about everything after you begin to realize it isn't a threat while using the antagonists.

I have stopped the JDTic though. Thanks.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

And that's why I took the drugs, to know if they were any good for you guys so I can report my findings.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2014)

I just mean this is how addictions CAN start.
Thanks god You don't take it again.
This is a dangerous drug everybody keep your hands off that shit.
Don't Trust a guy who sells pills via gmail-account.
Never !


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

CherryBlossom said:


> I just mean this is how addictions CAN start.
> Thanks god You don't take it again.
> This is a dangerous drug everybody keep your hands off that shit.
> Don't Trust a guy who sells pills via gmail-account.
> Never !


lol I'm not the one who's selling it. :L


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

CherryBlossom said:


> Funky Buddha thanks for the post to see how addictions can start!
> You see that this pill is bullshit right?
> You only feel good after 3-4 hours of hell and You take So many risks.
> And You only feel good when taking this pillSo for the rest of your life (and I am sure your life won't last that long with taking this pill) You take it go through hours of hell and Yeah.
> ...


Thanks CherryBlossom.

These guys have no idea what they're messing with. Just gotta read through the post to see just some of the effects this drug has. Holy moly.

I agree this thread should be banned. If you wanna fuck around with substances, keep it in your own bedroom!

Then again.. a part of me says.. "yeah go for it fellas. Just keep us posted on your demise ok?" Then we'll have proof of why you shouldn't mess with unknown drugs.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> Any body who takes a singular approach to depersonalization needs to do more research. If it it still not fully understood by professionals, why would anyone on an Internet forum have all the answers? All avenues should be explored to help further the chances of finding relief for people.


Why is it so awful that some people don't want to take medication? I feel like this has more to do with those people being more vocal, aggressive and dick-ish about it, since that is the only time this remark comes up.

I'm not basing my decision to avoid medication in fear and ignorance like some might. I know it's risks and benefits, I'm choosing not to for a variety of personnel reasons.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> Not sure where anyone suggested it's awful to not take medication. I'm speaking for people's rights to take medication and not be put on trial for it. Maybe some people don't understand that because they've never come to the ultimatum between suicide and medication.
> 
> I'm on the forum quite frequently- the majority of 'dickish' comments are coming from people who absolutely have to let everyone know the perils of medication.


Then tell the people who are forcing their view to stop it.

Your using a broad sweep by saying that it's wrong to focus on one approach when people act up like this, and it ends up scolding the wrong people.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Maybe some people are vocal about this b/c they actually give a shit. I care. It's horrible to think these guys are treating their bodies like this. It's a form of self abuse. That's why I keep throwing proven alternatives at them. Note: proven alternatives.

To anyone here... How would you feel if someone you cared about was shoving this stuff or NSI-189 down their throats? How would you feel if your child was taking heavy, virtually un-trialled pharmaceutical medication without knowing the risks? I'll hazard a guess and say, nobody would be very happy about that.

Look after your bodies guys. What you are doing to your bodies with this unknown stuff is basically self abuse. Do you see that?

And you have a very good point Selig about using just a singular approach to try and heal from dp. Personally I use 5 different approaches, with great success.

I wonder how many different methods Odisa and FunkyBuddah are using, besides pharmaceutical medication? Care to comment guys?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

hightimer said:


> How self righteous you must be to think your "proven methods" are the best anyone can ever hope for.


Typical naive comment you get on this forum..

These are not MY methods! These are methods which work for me (and a whole lot of other people). I had nothing to do with devising any of this stuff! Where did I say these are MY METHODS? More like 'the methods I use'.. Don't read things into what I say.

To heal from dp and taking good care of your body.. Yes, that probably IS the best you can hope for.. wouldn't you agree?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

hightimer said:


> There is no proven cure to DP. If you can show me it, I will happily apologize for my ignorance. Well guess what? Some people ignored DP for years and years and still have it. People have continued with their life as normal and still have it. When theres a chance, no matter how slim, that maybe there is a medication that can end DP and the suffering someone has had to go through, why is that suddenly so terrible?


Why don't you read some of the forum stories by people who have cured their dp without pharma meds? That's a start&#8230;

I hate to tell you mate.. but there is NO medication which will end the suffering of dp. Just in case you want to know where I got that information from.. That was told to me by a psychiatrist who'd specialised in treating people with dissociative disorders for 22years.. And if anyone was going to know it would be her right?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

btw&#8230; there're lots of different methods people use to heal from dp. It's a matter of finding the ones that work for you.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Philos said:


> Why don't you read some of the forum stories by people who have cured their dp without pharma meds? That's a start&#8230;
> 
> I hate to tell you mate.. but there is NO medication which will end the suffering of dp. Just in case you want to know where I got that information from.. That was told to me by a psychiatrist who'd specialised in treating people with dissociative disorders for 22years.. And if anyone was going to know it would be her right?


Yes, I agree with some of that. I have seen that SOME people have managed to snap out of their DP/DR without medication but I've also read that it doesn't last that long and that it just comes back. This is most likely from being out of DP/DR you're scared of the new way you interpret life without DP so you end up getting anxiety and stressed out again which just brings it back. That's why medication is the best approach IMO. Plus, I've tried ignoring it for 10 years without any luck, I've even tried ignoring it and have tried CBT without any luck. It's the trigger that's different. Some approaches just don't work on some people, including me which is why medication is the next best thing.

Personally, I don't see why this medication is so bad. Just because JDTIC causes heart problems alone doesn't mean other K-opoid antagonists will! It's all trial and error IMO but that's better than putting up with DP for the rest of are lives, and if you use medication in the correct manner with responsibility then it's fine.

Here is another one:

http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.26340894.html

http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB1449770.htm


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Those are some interesting substances FunkyBuddha, especially DIPPA. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything to indicate that it has been tested in vivo in humans.
I'm down for experimenting, but generally preferably not when it's untested in humans, and especially with such a relatively under-explored class of medication. Maybe if I was Alexander Shulgin, haha! It does seem subtantially cheaper by weight, but I'm not sure what the HED (Human Equivalent Dose) would be, as I don't know how to calculate that. Though, if you are interested, there are plenty of individuals who would be glad to calculate it for you.

Besides, with the existence of now 3 KOR antagonist ligands, there is no reason to opt for a ligand that hasn't been tested in humans. Such would only be worth considering under different circumstances, for instance if there hadn't been any human studies done with such a ligand, or if the substance is a plant constituent in commonly ingested plants, and indicates no toxicity or danger in multiple in vivo animal models (note: plant-based doesn't equate to safe; there are many plant-based substances that'll kill you given a high enough dosage; some in small doses).

And even in those cases there are many other things to consider, as with all risk-reward ratios. Monetary expense should be the least of factors.

*On a side note*; I'd like to propose to dedicate a single topic to discussing the supposed evils and virtues (etc. etc. and relevant content to that theme) of medication, tested or otherwise, so as to not keep derailing and disrupting threads such as these in to a debate of morality. It does seem such a thing is warranted; as such I think I will do that shortly, and post links in the relevant threads where whoever is interested can continue their discussion in that thread, and only that thread.


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

Funky Buddha said:


> And that's why I took the drugs, to know if they were any good for you guys so I can report my findings. :smile:


its very nice to have someone who takes these risks here, hugely appreciated, one day we might find a miracle pill...


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

medication has helped alot with all sorts of troubles in the 20th century increasing the life-span across the globe making previous deadly diseases harmless and our modern medication is a great accomplishment by us a species, why wouldnt we try meds.. for most dp/dr doesn't go away no mater how long you ignore it...


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

AMUNT said:


> medication has helped alot with all sorts of troubles in the 20th century increasing the life-span across the globe making previous deadly diseases harmless and our modern medication is a great accomplishment by us a species, why wouldnt we try meds.. for most dp/dr doesn't go away no mater how long you ignore it...


This is specifically about psychyatric medication.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Funky Buddha said:


> Yes, I agree with some of that. I have seen that SOME people have managed to snap out of their DP/DR without medication but I've also read that it doesn't last that long and that it just comes back. This is most likely from being out of DP/DR you're scared of the new way you interpret life without DP so you end up getting anxiety and stressed out again which just brings it back. That's why medication is the best approach IMO. Plus, I've tried ignoring it for 10 years without any luck, I've even tried ignoring it and have tried CBT without any luck. It's the trigger that's different. Some approaches just don't work on some people, including me which is why medication is the next best thing.
> 
> Personally, I don't see why this medication is so bad. Just because JDTIC causes heart problems alone doesn't mean other K-opoid antagonists will! It's all trial and error IMO but that's better than putting up with DP for the rest of are lives, and if you use medication in the correct manner with responsibility then it's fine.
> 
> ...


People get into DP/DR because of stress and anxiety, then they spend a while waiting for it go away without bettering themselves, and then they end up recovering back into the same stress and anxiety that triggered their DP/DR in the fist place.

The people who snap out if it and stay out are the ones who bettered themselves along the way, they took a serious look at their life and themselves and decided to fix what needed to be fixed, so when they recovered it wasn't stressful or scary, it was something they earned.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> Those are some interesting substances FunkyBuddha, especially DIPPA. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything to indicate that it has been tested in vivo in humans.
> I'm down for experimenting, but generally preferably not when it's untested in humans, and especially with such a relatively under-explored class of medication. Maybe if I was Alexander Shulgin, haha! It does seem subtantially cheaper by weight, but I'm not sure what the HED (Human Equivalent Dose) would be, as I don't know how to calculate that. Though, if you are interested, there are plenty of individuals who would be glad to calculate it for you.
> 
> Besides, with the existence of now 3 KOR antagonist ligands, there is no reason to opt for a ligand that hasn't been tested in humans. Such would only be worth considering under different circumstances, for instance if there hadn't been any human studies done with such a ligand, or if the substance is a plant constituent in commonly ingested plants, and indicates no toxicity or danger in multiple in vivo animal models (note: plant-based doesn't equate to safe; there are many plant-based substances that'll kill you given a high enough dosage; some in small doses).
> ...


Yes I agree with that. I think if a group buy was to occur then we should stick with the drugs that have been clinically tested in humans. That makes sense seen as we don't know the effects the ones that haven't been tested on humans will do to us. I don't care how much it costs although a decent price wouldn't be a disadvantage. You can get 25mg of PF-04455242 hydrochloride for just under £250 which is really good! Nor-BNI would be my second preference IMO.

P.S. I did my best at keeping this topic discussion into the related topic but some people didn't seem to agree with taking medication.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

I will look further in to PF-04455242 in that case then. Ultimately, it's about the cost per day, and the minimum order amount.

And I wasn't talking about anyone in particular Funky; just a general statement  Here's the topic I've opened: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/46408-to-med-or-not-to-med-debate-topic/ To anyone reading; please continue the discussion about the ethics, etc. over there, and leave this topic relevant. Thank you.


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2014)

Threads are conversations . You'll notice that an everyday normal discussion will often jump all over the place, going off on different tangents. I'd suggest if you don't want this to happen, just ask that the topic get back on track. Simple solution.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Selig said:


> Threads are made with an initial discussion in mind, not typically to start large debates. Branching off into other areas and arguing is different, that is why we have a debate section. The OP didn't start to the thread to debate whether medication should be taken or not.


Totally agree, I guess I shouldn't of replied to his questions. However, I guess now that we have a thread dedicated to medication and non-medication treatments we'll be able to clear this debate up and get on topic again.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> I will look further in to PF-04455242 in that case then. Ultimately, it's about the cost per day, and the minimum order amount.
> 
> And I wasn't talking about anyone in particular Funky; just a general statement  Here's the topic I've opened: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/46408-to-med-or-not-to-med-debate-topic/ To anyone reading; please continue the discussion about the ethics, etc. over there, and leave this topic relevant. Thank you.


Yes! That was a good find! It seems as though PF-04455242 is the only K-opoid antagonist that has been tested in humans, while the other haven't which makes it slightly risky to consume. I doubt that you'll need that much for the compound to actually work as most K-opoids seems to be very potent! Especially JDTic for that matter! You're a lucky guy you didn't take enough to get the negative effects because they're not nice at all!

I think the main thing we need to know about PF-04455242 is the dosage so we can calculate how long it will last us, the cost per day etc etc. In addition, we'll need to find a supplier that's willing to let us buy it from them and the lowest amount that we can buy. I think that we should start off with enough just to test the stuff and see what reactions we get from it just in case it gave some negative symptoms we wouldn't have wasted a bunch of money like JDTic! I haven't heard anything about any form of VT from PF-04455242 so I'm guessing it's safe on that side of things although it's better to carry out as much research beforehand to see what its mechanism of action is.

I'm not quite sure what JDTic in the first place to cause the VT. Do you think it could be related to either U-opoid antagonism or maybe Q-opoid antagonism ? I'm not quite sure... :/

P.S. Thanks for opening the topic, it's much appreciated and stops this thread from being cluttered up with debates.


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## AndyD (Nov 24, 2011)

What is the latest with this? Is there a link where I can buy some? Does it work?
I started reading the thread but my DP is so bad I have no reading comp skills right now and no attention span.


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