# Please help me understand my daughter's DR



## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

Hi everyone.

My teenage daughter just recently told me that she is experiencing DR. Her therapist helped her figure it out. She is seeing the therapist for extreme anxiety.

I have been doing some research on DR to understand it better. From what i've learned, it comes mainly from a state of anxiety, which make sense since that's my daughter's main problem.

What I don't understand is why she has such anxiety. She grew up in a calm loving household. There have been no traumas (I mean that, really no traumas). No physical injuries (such as head injuries or accidents). She does not and has never taken any illegal drugs. She has a bunch of food allergies so she is very careful about what she puts into her body and is always reading labels. She is an A student in high school and has an average social life. But she is afraid of a lot of things...many are irrational fears. She also has personal paranoia, sometimes fearing that someone will attack her. For example, she hates to sit in a chair without a back for fear that someone will stab her or something. It makes no sense. We live in a safe and boring suburban neighborhood and nothing bad has ever happened to us or to her. She was anxious as a kid, too. I just never realized the extent of it or how it sometimes ruled her life (she was good at keeping it to herself). She has a very high IQ.

I understand a lot of things about the human body and am very open-minded. I suffer from mild depression myself which I found relief from by taking 3g of high EPA fish oil daily. I continue to learn a lot about how food can help you or harm you.

My daughter eats a good nutritious diet and takes a multi-vitamin daily. She used to eat more snacks but wanted to slim down a bit (she is not overweight, but just wanted to lose a couple of pounds), so began focusing on good food. I cook nutritious meals for my family. She eats lowfat cheese on whole grain bread every day for lunch (her choice). She makes herself an egg with cheese for breakfast every morning. She doesn't eat many sweets, but chews a lot of sugar-free gum (wondering if the artificial sweetener might be a problem???)

I also wonder if her asthma inhalers might be causing this DR. She has always been anxious, but the DR only started recently. And she started taking a low dose of inhaled steriod recently to help her asthma. I have called the doctor who prescribed the inhalers to see if it's possible that this could be a side effect. Her inhalers are the only drugs she takes, aside from the multi-vitamin. She does not drink coffee or caffeine or any alcohol. She is a "good kid" and I can say with huge confidence that she has not experimented with any drugs that may have caused this.

I wonder if she might be deficient in something. We're having her thyroid function tested, since thyroid disease runs in our family -- I have Hashimoto's Thyroiditis as do many female members of my family. Aside from that, I don't know what would make a child or a teenage feel anxious if there are no real external problems causing the anxiety.

I would like to have her levels of B vitamins tested. I wonder about adrenal fatigue. I wonder about possible sleep apnea, because she tells me that she wakes up several times during the night. My husband is being tested for sleep apnea in a couple of weeks because he has a similar problem. I wonder if she might have some sort of hormonal imbalance.

Most of all, I want to help her and figure this out. I hope it will be as easy as finding that she has some sort of correctible imbalance or physical problem (glandular, etc) that can be treated. I have sometimes experienced anxiety. I had panic attacks when taking an SSRI and I know what some of this derealization or depersonalization feels like. But myself -- I only experience it as a drug reaction. This poor kid is experiencing it every single day, time and time again all day long. I give her huge kudos for being able to cope with it so well.

But as a parent who loves her, it scares me and I want to help her make it stop. Knowing that she is suffering just breaks my heart.

Please reply to this post if you have any ideas for me, or articles I should read, etc. I will be talking to her pediatrician and my endocrinologist soon to try to figure out if she should get any other types of tests.

Thank you!


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## Teresa (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello Marion.

I think you should start focusing on the problem at hand which is the anxiety and paranoia. Thats whats causing your daughters DR, not something physical.

We all want to find the miracle cure and find out that we just need to take at vitamin-pill. But when you write about what your dauthers is experiencing, I have no doubt that the DR is a "bi-produkt" af a main diagnosis. Im no psyciatrist and I cant say if the paranoia thoughts are from OCD or something psycotic.

You write that your daughter is seing a therapist. It would be best if this therapist were a psyciatrist.

You write that there has been no traumas or anything like that in her childhood. But you write that you yourself has been on antidepressants. So everything cant have been paradise. If you have had anxiety or depression theres a bigger chance than normal, that your children will get it to. Theres also the case that your daughter maybee have been experienced something, and she did not tell you about it.

I think ist great that you take so much interrest in your daugthers condition. But try and look at the real problem... the anxiety and paranoia.

I have DR and DP too from anxiety... My childhood was not terrible... I had loving parents... But my mother was very overprotective and I learned in a very young age, that I needeed to be afraid of everything. It was allways: Dont talk to strangers, Dont climb that tree you will fall down, watch the traffic.... All great things to teach a child, but it can also be to much.
I was also a nervous kid. And at the age of 17, my anxiety started.
All that with straight A´s... always been a good girl, always being the one that used the comon sense, no drugs.... that was me too. A kinda young controlfreak... controlfreak as in wanting to have control over ones life... not stepping out of place... Many people with anxiety, has this background.

Im sure that youre daughter will be fine. It sounds like shes already getting help.

And sorry for the spelling.. Im from Denmark


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## Felicity (Feb 7, 2011)

Hello Marion, welcome and I'm very sorry about your daughter's state of health. In my opinion some people are predisposed genetically to develop anxiety disorders, including DP/DR, and that their experiences and physical conditions indeed have a limited impact. You say that she has a bunch of allergies and has been anxious from a young age (and also that you have experienced panic attacks yourself), this indicates inherited physiological sensitivity, her nervous system may well be overdeveloped to the point where even relatively minor stresses will feel like hell. Just from my own experience it would be very good for her if she was surrounded by people who were psychologically very stable - their stability will directly impact and bring about her own.

It's good that she is going to a therapist, and that you are trying to understand more about DP. I think that will help. All the best to you and her.


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## rob (Aug 22, 2004)

Hi Marion

The terms depersonalisation(DP) and derealisation(DR)refer to a bundle of symptoms that are common to a greater or lesser extent in all sufferers. In my own case, DP and DR exist alongside each other. Others feel that they have DP only or DR only.

Symptoms of DP include a feeling that one's "self" has ceased to exist, a feeling of experiencing one's own thoughts and actions as if they were the thoughts and actions of a stranger, a feeling that one's thoughts, memories, emotions, perceptions and sensations are no longer fused together in a single recognisable "self", an inability to feel any emotion other than a dull pervading sadness punctuated only by occasional further anxiety ... a detachment from meaningful experience, being troubled by loud and apparently meaningless thoughts, feeling like an automaton ... the list goes on - a little different for everyone.. it's difficult to describe .. but hopefully you get the idea.

Symptoms of DR include feeling as if the external world and other people are not real ... seeing the world as flat, glassy and two-dimensional ... feeling alienated from the world and feeling separated from the world by an invisible screen - whilst retaining the troubling knowledge that the world _is_ real despite these strange and distressing feelings.

For some people DP/DR is apparently a symptom of other "primary" disorders like depression, OCD and schizophrenia. For others, DP/DR is a stand-alone disorder which exists independently of other disorders. Your daughter's fear that she will be stabbed unless she sits in a chair with a back on it suggests to me something beyond the realm of DP/DR. I don't want to sound alarmist but I would strongly urge you to arrange for your daughter to consult a qualified psychiatrist with experience of psychotic disorders. If, and I mean "if", there is evidence of a developing psychotic disorder then an early diagnosis may be crucial to her long-term mental health. If not, then at least your mind will be put at rest in that regard.

Speaking both as a father and someone who has suffered the symptoms of DP/DR for many years, I really do feel for you. Please don't beat yourself up over this. The relationship between parenting issues and the onset of DP/DR is at best anecdotal, overstated and not really understood. It's just an unfortunate fact of life that some kids have a predisposition towards anxiety, panic and flipping out into altered states of conciousness like DP/DR when confronted with stresses that just don't bother other people. For what it's worth, physical hyperflexibility is just as much an indicator of anxiety disorders as anything else. So please don't think that your daughter's difficulties are in any way your fault.

You sound like a lovely mother and what your little girl needs from you during this very tough ordeal is for you to be confident and strong and to carry on giving her unconditional love and support... but you know that already. I could never tell my own parents about my DP/DR partly because I felt guilty about it and partly because we just didn't have that kind of relationship. I was worried that they would reject me like any other damaged goods. I felt instinctively they they would interpret my own difficulties as a question mark concerning their own somewhat fragile mental health and that that would make them hostile. In short I didn't trust them to give me the understanding and love that I think would have helped me a lot in those early years.

If you need any information or support please feel free to ask.

Good luck

Rob


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate your support.

I spoke on the phone to her therapist. She wants me to take my daughter to the pediatrician, which I had planned to do, anyway. I want my daughter to get tested to see if she is deficient in any vitamins or minerals. We already have a lab slip for TSH (thyroid), a few other hormones, and a comprehensive metabolic panel. I will ask the pediatrician what else she thinks we should check (cortisol, or whatever). I would like to supplement my daughter with B vitamins, but not until we check her levels first.

I have a call in to her pulmonologist to see if she should discontinue the inhaled steriod (and if so, how to do it properly, because sometimes you can't quit steriods cold turkey). She has been taking the drug daily since January, and that's when things got worse for her. Anxiety is one of the side effects, but it's considered rare. However, I feel that while it may not be causing the anxiety, it might be exacerbating it. I know how powerful steriods can be. I was on a small dose of Prednisone for a short time, a few years ago. When I was withdrawing from it, I got extremely depressed. I know that steriods can also cause psychosis in some people (my own dermatologist told me that steriods make her psychotic!)

The therapist said that based on what the pediatrician wants or finds out, it might be a good idea for my daughter to see a psychiatrist. Apparently she had mentioned it to my daughter, and she was OK with the idea. I certainly don't want anyone pushing anti-anxiety meds on her. I believe that some meds are very helpful or even vitally necessary depending on the situation, but I'd prefer not to have my daughter popping meds yet. I would like to try natural methods first (vitamins, amino acids, etc) if possible.

I understand that some people can recover from de-realization and de-personalization if they get their anxiety under control. The therapist is apparently doing a really good job at helping my daughter with this. No matter what, I think the skills she learns at this age will help her later in life.

Having been through the mill myself of therapy and seeing psychiatrists for SSRIs, I have to say that this is really throwing me for a loop. I had never heard of this disorder until she told me about it a few days ago. I don't blame myself. I consider myself a good mother and we have a calm supportive household. I agree that some kids are just wired for these sort of things. I'm not one to bury my head in the sand. I know that if you don't get a good handle on this sort of situation, it can get worse if it's untreated or not treated properly.

I also want to add -- about myself -- I believe that I always had a predisposition for depression, but didn't actually ever get depressed until after being pregnant. I was depressed for a very short time after my first daughter was born, and then I got really depressed after my second daughter (the one we're talking about here) was born. That's the first time I ever took an SSRI. That's when we discovered I had thyroid disease, too. And the panic attacks I mention happened as a drug side effect from Prozac and also from trying SAM-E. I never had them before or since, although they were so traumatic I had to seek Cognative Behavior Therapy to overcome the fear I'd developed because of them. The panic attacks happened while driving on the freeway. Needless to say, I'm not a big fan of freeway driving anymore because of it, but I CAN do it, and if the fear overwhelms me, I can cope with it.


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## Infinitevoid (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi Marion,

I would describe DP/DR as being there but not really "there." Have you ever pulled an all-nighter or gotten extremely tired and the world just kind of seemed to go by you? Like, auto-pilot mode? It's a feeling of detachment with everything. Kind of like life is now a TV show.

What it is really is the brain not processing emotion fully. Things you see do not have emotional color to them. For me it's hard to feel love and bonds with other people. I get the same feeling from seeing my parents as I do looking at furniture. I could look out over a beautiful landscape and not really be awed by it.

Mine was caused by severe anxiety and panic over hypochondria and body image issues. It started when I was 19. I have a lot of OCDs also, and a high IQ and degree in Mathematics.

Nobody can tell, usually, that I have this problem. It really ruins life for me though. It's not fun feeling like my daily life is a video game. I still act normally except for being slightly less aware and a bit more withdrawn than most.

I still hold down my analysis job successfully and nobody at work thinks anything more than that I'm a little quirky. I try not to dwell on it and just live.

MM


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## Speechless (Nov 23, 2009)

the most important thing you can do is be patient and support her. Listen to her and continue supporting her like you are doing now. 
The sad thing is you can't do anything about her DP/DR going away. It's something you can't see but trust me the what she is experiencing is really really difficult. It's umbereable(sp) at times. It takes alot of strength and patience for her. She is going to be tested alot while trying to live her life. But don't worry, I am sure she will recover in due time with your support.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2011)

Hi Marion,

I believe your decision to avoid pharmaceutical medication for your daughter is a very wise choice. There are herbal remedies out there which can help without compromising body health. I've been taking St Johns Wort for over 12 months now and believe it has helped me immensely. It's a natural anti depressant and helps to lower stress and anxiety levels also. Magnesium is also highly recommended to help with stress and anxiety along with being a muscle relaxant. Anxiety seems to be the fuel for the dissociative disorders. It's a big one! I see a alternative health professional once a month just to keep on top of general health. It's worth trying and you've got nothing to loose.

It sounds like your daughter has a very good balanced diet which is very important for everyone! However you may want to consider seeing an alternative health professional just to be sure. There's always something they can help with. Sleep for instance. Is your daughter sleeping OK? Quality sleep will help a lot. Again, this is something a natropath can help with.

Hats off to you for being such an incredibly supportive, loving and a seemingly very wise mother! This condition (as you've probably gathered) can be incredibly debilitating at times for the sufferer. However, it's the minds natural defence mechanism to protect itself from something underlying and from what I've been told (and read) the best way to find out what the underlying cause is, is through therapy. It can be a lengthy process but the prognosis for recovery is excellent. I say to myself.'be a patient patient!'

I have lived with dissociative disorders for 44 years. NOBODY (not even me) picked up on this for 43 of those years. I thought everybody was like me until I started seeing a counsellor. Boy what a shock that was! Your daughter WILL recover from this and lead a happy, 'normal' life. In fact she will have an insight into the human mind that few people have the opportunity to experience. It will make her strong and very, very wise......and me too!! I know I WILL get through this!

All the best to the both of you..


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

marion said:


> Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate your support.
> 
> I spoke on the phone to her therapist. She wants me to take my daughter to the pediatrician, which I had planned to do, anyway. I want my daughter to get tested to see if she is deficient in any vitamins or minerals. We already have a lab slip for TSH (thyroid), a few other hormones, and a comprehensive metabolic panel. I will ask the pediatrician what else she thinks we should check (cortisol, or whatever). I would like to supplement my daughter with B vitamins, but not until we check her levels first.
> 
> ...


I think you've answered your question here.
If you had depression after the birth of your daughter, chances are it interfered with the bonding process, which can cause attachment problems.
Sounds like the DPD, and anxeity could be genetic.
If you daughter is very intelligent and intuitive, she may have picked up on your anxeities too. Children can be very sensitive.

It's great though, that you're taking such an interest in your daughter's condition. Good luck with it, and good luck to her!


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> I think you've answered your question here.
> If you had depression after the birth of your daughter, chances are it interfered with the bonding process, which can cause attachment problems.
> Sounds like the DPD, and anxeity could be genetic.
> If you daughter is very intelligent and intuitive, she may have picked up on your anxeities too. Children can be very sensitive.
> ...


No, there were no bonding problems. The depression was always mild, and I didn't fully realize I had it until about 6 months after she was born (when I was finally getting enough sleep and still feeling awful). She and I bonded just as well as I did with my first daughter, IMO.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Is your daughter allowed to argue with you, assert herself as an individual and push you away when she needs to without it being the end of the world? I don't know if this is relevant to you at all but for me my parents were very nice and I had a good childhood by many standards but all my work in therapy now is about learning to assert myself and how to handle buried anger because when growing up I couldn't do this because my parents couldn't handle it and I felt guilty by doing so.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Pablo said:


> Is your daughter allowed to argue with you, assert herself as an individual and push you away when she needs to without it being the end of the world? I don't know if this is relevant to you at all but for me my parents were very nice and I had a good childhood by many standards but all my work in therapy now is about learning to assert myself and how to handle buried anger because when growing up I couldn't do this because my parents couldn't handle it and I felt guilty by doing so.


That's an excellent point.
My parents were very strict and controlling, a misguided attempt to make me 'good'. But not being able to express myself or find my own way contributed to my DPD. Emotional abuse/ neglegt isn't as obvious as physical or verbal abuse, or not even intentional. It can be as invisible as your experience, of not being able to express yourself. You probably grew up, as did I believing this was normal behaviour.


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> That's an excellent point.
> My parents were very strict and controlling, a misguided attempt to make me 'good'. But not being able to express myself or find my own way contributed to my DPD. Emotional abuse/ neglegt isn't as obvious as physical or verbal abuse, or not even intentional. It can be as invisible as your experience, of not being able to express yourself. You probably grew up, as did I believing this was normal behaviour.


Oh gosh, it's pretty much been the other way around in our house. My husband and I are very easygoing people. Our daughter was always allowed to express herself, and she always had a very strong personality and been very independent. She threw terrible tantrums when she was a toddler and we had to learn how to give her the choices that would calm her down. For instance, if we said that we wanted her to stop doing something, she'd hem and haw and give us a really hard time. But if we instead told her that she must stop doing it by 6 p.m. and set a timer for 6 p.m., she would stop doing it when the timer went off. She had to buy into the idea to cooperate. It's because she has such a high intellect. Just saying to her "because I said so" would never work with her. She often argued with us a lot and always hated to be wrong -- she would never admit being wrong, even if her argument was totally irrational. In fact, we have told her that she'd make a great lawyer, because even now as a teenager she can debate like a pro.

We believe that it's better to express your emotions than to keep stuff inside. She's never had any trouble expressing anger to us, that's for sure. But over the years, we learned that she would keep sad emotional turmoil inside and then just boil over with it, like a volcano. Sometimes she would worry about something and let it eat her up inside and then come to us crying one day -- and we'd learn that this particular thing was troubling her for weeks. As time has gone on, she has learned to talk with us, or her sister, or her friends about her troubles. And now of course, her therapist.

When she was little, and it was time for her to go to preschool, there was absolutely no separation anxiety from her (unlike my older daughter, who was "the velcro kid.") This kid couldn't wait to go have fun in school and do the things her older sister was doing. I had to really keep my eye on her when she was little because she tended to run away and explore.

Seriously, there weren't (and aren't) any issues like you describe in our house. If she wanted to try something or explore something, we let her do it, whatever it was. We encouraged her to express herself, and still do. She knows we'll love and accept her no matter what. We're not uptight strict religious "what will the neighbors think" sort of people. We don't stand on ceremony.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Btw, all we can do on here is throw out our experiences and ideas about DPD and just hope someone catches on lol. It's a really frustrating condition to treat, and please don't think I or anyone on here is accusing you of being a bad mother etc. We are just as lost as you are!

Ok, one book I think you should read and give to you daughter is 'imp of the mind'. it's an excellent book on OCD, intrusive thoughts and brain loops
http://www.amazon.com/Imp-Mind-Exploring-Epidemic-Obsessive/dp/0525945628
And this
http://www.amazon.com/Brain-Lock-Yourself-Obsessive-Compulsive-Behavior/dp/0060987111/ref=pd_sim_b_2
This book was a huge help in my recovery.
The fear of being attacked etc sounds like and OCD loop.

Also, if she's unable to express any negative thoughts, she may be experiencing this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia
She should get CBT to help her express her emotions properly and healthily.

Does she worry a lot about world events?

Also, as someone said, she may have experienced something that she's not telling you. Maybe because she has a good relationship she's afraid of diasppointing you or upsetting you.


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

Well we got the blood tests done yesterday and we'll know the results in about a week. We got the following done:

TSH
Thyroid antibodies
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Anemia screening
Several hormones (her period has been weird lately)
ASO titer (apparently a dormant strep infection can cause similar symptoms)

Later we will get her vitamin levels checked. The doctor didn't want to do too many tests at once. Not sure why.

Her Pulmonologist agreed that she should be discontinued from the asthma steriod inhaler (for the record, it's called Asmanex), but it has to be done slowly. She was taking one puff each night for several months. She has to wean off it by starting out taking one puff every other night for a week; then every two nights for week, etc....until she's off it completely. Yesterday I had my semi-annual appt with my Endocrinologist and told her about all this. She said that the Asmanex could definitely be causing some of this. Although inhaled steriods aren't absorbed into the body as quickly as steriod pills, they could have built up in her system because she has been taking this inhaler every day for about 2.5 months.

I have a book called The Mood Cure which outlines a lot of natural methods for beating depression and anxiety. In this book, the author talks about using GABA to help control anxiety (along with a couple of amino acids). Has anyone tried this? I wouldn't give her anything like that directly myself -- I'd go to a practictioner who understands these things better (particularly since my daughter is a teenager).

Last night we were talking about her sleep problems. Sleep deprivation can lead to some of this stuff. She has a hard time getting settled down to sleep, and apparently she wakes up a few times during the night. For sure she is not getting enough hours of sleep every night. I'm so glad that Spring Break is next week, so she'll have an opportunity to catch up on her rest. Do any of you have a similar symptom? I know that some of this is really a chicken-and-egg situation: sleep deprivation can lead to anxiety or depression, but those things can also cause sleep deprivation.

I'm thinking of researching the ingredients in Calms Forte, and also looking into Valerian root (to make sure she's not allergic to any of that stuff before giving it to her). We have Chamomile tea, but IMO it doesn't seem to do very much. I would not give her sleeping pills or tranqualizers unless the doctor said it was OK. That can create a whole new set of problems if you're not careful.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Marion, get her some Melatonin, that should help with sleep. You can get it online.

Although i think it's great that you're looking into vitamin deficiencies, I did this for ages, and I got nowhere. Taking vitamins can help but it won't cure it. Her anxeity and OCD sounds severe, especially about her being attacked.
I don't want to scare you, but it's possible something happened to her that you don't know about. Her fear of being stabbed etc sounds so extreme!


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

Well, her lab work all came back normal. Her TSH is in the high-normal range. Given our family history of thyroid problems, at her age that means "keep an eye on it," but since her thyroid antibodies were negative, there's nothing that should be done now for that.

Her pediatrician said it's OK for her to take B vitamins without her levels being tested first. Personally I would prefer to test first, but the pediatrician didn't want to do it, despite me continuing to politely ask. Seriously, what skin is it off her nose to order another blood test for vitamin deficiency? I don't understand doctors sometimes. Anyway, I got a decent brand of balanced B-50. I told my daughter to take it in the morning with breakfast, since I know that B vitamins can interfere with sleep if you take them late in the day.

If she's having trouble settling down for bed, I may have her try Calms Forte or Valerian Root to see if that helps. I'm hesitant to give her Melatonin, because my husband tried it and it gave him awful nightmares. I have never tried it, myself. I have read that some people love it, and some people get these nightmares from it and avoid it. I am extremely hesitant to give her anxiety meds unless it's absolutely necessary.

She is doing better since backing off the inhaled steroid, but still has good days and bad days with the DR. If this continues after she's totally off the steroid, I think maybe we should take her to a psychiatrist for an evaluation just to be safe. I have mixed feelings about that issue. On one hand, a psychiatrist can tell us whether he thinks there is anything worse going on. On the other hand, he may just try to push drugs at her as a band-aid. In any event, I have recommendations for 3 possible psychiatrists who can see her -- they are supposed to be very good, and one works with a lot of young people.


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## speedrage56 (Sep 23, 2010)

Hello,

I just wanted to tell you that your daughter will definitely get better. She already has the most important weapon, a loving family to help her through this. It is a scary condition but at the same time not life-threatening so you can breathe easy. The important thing would be to keep listening to her and let the therapist work his magic. It'll take some time but it'll work out. Good luck and there are a lot of great people on this forum to help you if you need it.


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## MobiusX (Jul 27, 2010)

In some cases the cause might be unknown but there is usually something that triggered it. It is true that people who tend to have more anxiety experience more derealization, but it doesn't always happen when the person has anxiety, like me. I experience it 24/7 for many years. This is basically how I've been living my life without knowing I had a disorder. I'm still not entirely convinced that I do. There are a lot of symptoms for DR, some I don't experience. The main one I do is that everything looks dreamlike every time. Some good examples of this symptom is almost like being underwater wearing goggles, or it's like being inside a painting, trapped in a dream. Reality lacks vividness, clarity, solidness in everything. Derealization is just a symptom, not a disorder, it's a symptom of depersonalization, but I believe DR is much worse. If she has derealization and NOT depersonalization and no other symptom found in other dissociative disorders then her disorder is dissociative disorder not other specified which is considered a less severe form of dissociative disorder compared to the other ones. This disorder usually turns out to be DID, dissociative identity disorder. To get an accurate diagnose, the person would have to take a test who is trained and qualified in this to eliminate the possibility of her symptoms being mistaken for another disorder, and it will help her get the right treatment because being treated for 1 dissociative disorder while she has another one can make it worse.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

While i think it's great that you're trying to help her, i wonder if all these tests are making her more anxious?

I think she should decide what treatment, seeing a psychiatrist etc, or what course of therapy she should have herself. Giving her some control back from her issues would be good for her.

I imagine that since she's able to talk about her OCD phobias and the DPD, that it's nothing deeper. I think a person with schizophrenia wouldn't be aware that something is wrong, whereas someone with DPD/ OCD knows something is up but doesn't know how to stop it.

But yeah, just be wary of what a psyschiatrist might say, personally I'd try a psychologist or psychotherapist, one who specialises in OCD. Psychs just tend to throw medication around, which isn't helpful and you're right to be cautious.

As I've said before, there could be something she's not telling you, that triggered all this. Is someone picking on her in school? Has she been attacked? I know these are horrible questions to ask, but it's something you should consider. Her fear of being stabbed is just, well, very extreme. Poor girl, she must be terrified.

Btw, how old is she?


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

Thank you, good point. I think that if/when we take her to see a psychiatrist, we would mention this. I suppose that before we even go to one specific doctor, we should make sure that he/she has experience with this sort of disorder, so that it can be diagnosed properly.

For what it's worth, my daughter said that her week was better, last week.

This week will really be the test, because she will only be using the inhaler twice this week (as opposed to every other day last week).

Her therapist is dedicated to helping her, and they have a good relationship with each other, so I hope that one way or another my daughter will be able to beat this or reduce it.



MobiusX said:


> In some cases the cause might be unknown but there is usually something that triggered it. It is true that people who tend to have more anxiety experience more derealization, but it doesn't always happen when the person has anxiety, like me. I experience it 24/7 for many years. This is basically how I've been living my life without knowing I had a disorder. I'm still not entirely convinced that I do. There are a lot of symptoms for DR, some I don't experience. The main one I do is that everything looks dreamlike every time. Some good examples of this symptom is almost like being underwater wearing goggles, or it's like being inside a painting, trapped in a dream. Reality lacks vividness, clarity, solidness in everything. Derealization is just a symptom, not a disorder, it's a symptom of depersonalization, but I believe DR is much worse. If she has derealization and NOT depersonalization and no other symptom found in other dissociative disorders then her disorder is dissociative disorder not other specified which is considered a less severe form of dissociative disorder compared to the other ones. This disorder usually turns out to be DID, dissociative identity disorder. To get an accurate diagnose, the person would have to take a test who is trained and qualified in this to eliminate the possibility of her symptoms being mistaken for another disorder, and it will help her get the right treatment because being treated for 1 dissociative disorder while she has another one can make it worse.


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## marion (Apr 9, 2011)

She is almost 15.

Like I said, as far as we know, nothing traumatic has ever happened to her. She has never been attacked and she was with me 99% of the time when she was really little. She went to the same preschool as her older sister, and nothing bad happened there. We have no relatives in the area, and if I ever left her with anyone it was a teenage female babysitter from the neighborhood or another Mom I was friends with for a couple of hours.

She began having irrational fears around age 7 (that we know of), but we passed them off as her just being a kid. For example, she would see a documentary about the rain forest and then be very afraid of poisonous frogs, even though or course there are no poisonous frogs anywhere around where we live!

The only other thing I can think of that has caused her a lot of anxiety years ago was her peanut allergy. Her older sister was found to be allergic at age 3, and she vomited if she ate peanuts. So of course when our younger daughter came along, we made sure to keep her away from peanuts and all other types of nuts, too. At age 5, our younger daughter was accidentally exposed to peanuts, and a test then revealed that she was also allergic. Please note: she has never actually had a reaction. The test showed the allergy, but she has never had a reaction. Thankfully neither of my daughters has ever had to use their Epi-Pens. I suppose their allergy is mild compared to other kids who can't even be in the same room as a peanut. Thankfully they can even be around people who have been eating peanut butter and nothing happens. There would only be a reaction if they actually ate peanuts or tree nuts. There is a 20% chance that both daughters will outgrow their peanut allergy. We plan to get them re-tested in a few years. Each test is considered an "exposure," so it's not good to test too often.

Anyway, when she was 8 years old, she must have crossed a developmental threshold to fully understand the concept of "mortality" regarding her peanut allergies. For several months she wouldn't eat any food she hadn't previously eaten (which was hard because this anxiety started suddenly when we were on vacation in Hawaii!) Being a very smart kid, she understood about her Epi-Pen and insisted on carrying it around on her belt, which was fine with me. She did that throughout most of 3rd grade, but by 4th grade she had relaxed about the situation. Nowadays, at age 14, she is careful about what she eats (always reads labels) and is sure to have her Epi-Pen with her if she goes out with friends. She wears a Medic-Alert bracelet. She is pretty relaxed about the situation and I think she handles it well. She is very responsible.

So I suppose the only traumatic thing I can think of was her deeper understanding of her peanut allergy at age 8, and some mild anxiety concerning the allergy in some situations sometimes (but she deals with it and is OK). When she was 8 and freaking out, we did everything we could to make her feel empowered. That really helped, and I think that's why nowadays she is vigilant about her food but she doesn't freak out.

However, perhaps that whole anxiety episode surrounding her peanut allergy at age 8 made things worse for her, "setting the stage" for this new problem. It lasted about 6 months, then the anxiety level about the allergy diminished and faded.

One more thing: at age 11, a boy she really liked turned around and rejected her (they had previously been great neighborhood friends for years). It was one of those situations girls get into when other girls begin to gossip about "who likes who" (5th grade). My daughter was quite heartbroken about it and I know she felt kind of depressed for a while, but she eventually got over it. She was having trouble with these "friends" who gossiped about her all through 5th grade, and in 6th grade thankfully found a new group of friends. But truthfully, that is really common among girls. I know my daughter was unhappy, and we talked about it a lot, but things got better for her. Lots of girls go through that sort of thing.

Anyway, it wasn't until a few months ago that she told me that she has a lot of irrational fears, which was news to me. On the outside, she seems like an extremely confident and fearless girl. You'd never have a clue that she felt this way.



violetgirl said:


> While i think it's great that you're trying to help her, i wonder if all these tests are making her more anxious?
> 
> I think she should decide what treatment, seeing a psychiatrist etc, or what course of therapy she should have herself. Giving her some control back from her issues would be good for her.
> 
> ...


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Yeah, that sounds a lot for a kid to take on board, and they all deal with it a different way. Sometimes we forget how sensitive kids can be

I mentioned to a few DPDers, not sure if i've said it on this thread, but you could try Mindfulness meditation. It's not very expensive, and it would be a great way for her to relax. It's all about living in the now, being aware of yourself and the world. the literal opposite of DPD and anxeity. plus it's a really nice feeling afterwards. might help her!


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