# Dpd and everyone's infection



## KY23 (Apr 18, 2018)

Hey everyone I'm new to these forums. What I'm not new to us depersonalization disorder. It has severely impacted my life for the past 5 years and I just turned 21. It was caused by smoking weed and having a traumatic experience while being high just like many if you. When I woke up the next day, everything seemed foreign and lifeless/emotionless. After all these years of struggling socially and scholastically, I found my cause. BARTONELLA. It was activated in my body during the truama. A strain of bacteria that is commonly found to be a coinfection with people with Lyme. Most of us have this infection, but never get triggered to activation until something severely tragic and traumatizing happens. I'm going to boldly predict and state, that I think most of us have either bartonella, Lyme, or other coinfections. Testing for these are tremendously inaccurate too as the standard tests fail to successfully detect it more than half the time. If you think about it, it is highly unlikely that some of our symptoms like eye floaters, static vision that occur after rthe onset of do are caused by hormonal or neurological In balances. Hopefully I gave some hope to people and I urge everyone to look into these things. Even if youve been tested. I know I'm. It a very good writer, I do have some brain fog that impacts my ability to think, and wish I could add more detail. Btw, do any of you have weird stretch marks like diggings Amy place odd on your body? That is tell tail sign of Bart.


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## MichelleH (Oct 22, 2017)

Welcome to the forums KY23. You bring up some excellent points and your story sounds all too similar to mine. I recently found out I have Lyme & babesia after I have been in this strange zombie depersonalized state for over 10 years now. It has been a complete mystery as to why I suffered from dissociation, brain fog, and a myriad of other cognitive problems. Ultimately, I felt like a freak of nature with this alien condition where I can't speak or think normally and I used to be very creative.I can safely say that it destroyed all aspects of my life including social relationships, academics, career, dreams and passions, and more. My symptoms were triggered simply by doing a lot of cardio exercise when I was 18 and lost 10 to 15 pounds. My body and immune system viewed the sudden weight loss as stress and trauma and reactivated infections that were in a semi-dormant state. After all, exercise works by hormesis so in other words stressing your body makes it stronger in the long run but that wasn't the case for me. The major twist is that I first experienced detachment, derealization, and brain fog when I was 4 and this is when I suspect I got originally infected. Now it feels like I have a lobotomy as I can't think at all. I am scheduled for a SPECT brain scan next week so I will see what is happening to my brain. I don't think people realize what tick born illnesses can do to the brain so I hope to bring more awareness to this issue.


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## KY23 (Apr 18, 2018)

Excellent man very excellent. It gives me hope because I truly believe that's what happened to most of us even if tests don't show because as I stated in my original post, Lyme and related infection tests are unreliable mainstream. I just hope people will see my post and explore this as a possible cause to them because my depersonalization was caused by something that I have in common with a lot of other people on here. Well, I hope you finally get to feel better. Also, if you could let me know how your treating your infections. I'm doing stephen buhner's bartonella herbal protocol.????


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## thanksforbeingalive (Dec 22, 2017)

if it was bartonella did you experience problems with skin?


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## KY23 (Apr 18, 2018)

Autonomic , I essentially diagnosed myself when I found out that random stretch marks that I never had are a symptom of bartonella. Then I looked into it and bartonella causes depersonalization and many people officially diagnosed with it experience depersonalization just like everyone that comes to these forums. My stretch marks came out of no where and we're on my inner thigh. Ive always been athletic, maintained a healthy weight, and grew steadily, so it made sense that the stretch marks were caused from the bacteria. My other symptoms matched, static vision, eye floaters, anxiety, which all appeared after the on set of depersonalization. Hope this helps


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## KY23 (Apr 18, 2018)

Thanksforbeingalive. Yes. Acne on the butt, strange stretch marks that appear in random places, muscle twitches.


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## KY23 (Apr 18, 2018)

Autonomic space monkey. Also, mainstream protocols for testing are grossly unrelaible , so your family healthcare or your normal doctor is illiterate in this along with many other things. My recommendation would to see a llmd, Lyme literate doctor as they are the only doctors that are versed in bartonella , Lyme, ext and have the right testing.


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## MichelleH (Oct 22, 2017)

KY23 said:


> Excellent man very excellent. It gives me hope because I truly believe that's what happened to most of us even if tests don't show because as I stated in my original post, Lyme and related infection tests are unreliable mainstream. I just hope people will see my post and explore this as a possible cause to them because my depersonalization was caused by something that I have in common with a lot of other people on here. Well, I hope you finally get to feel better. Also, if you could let me know how your treating your infections. I'm doing stephen buhner's bartonella herbal protocol.


So far I have been prescribed the antibiotic doxycycline for the Lyme and anti parasite med Mepron for babesia. As of now, my symptoms haven't really improved unfortunately since I have been dealing with these infections for such a long time. Depending on what the Spect brain scan reveals I may get prescribed IV antibiotics though considering my symptoms I think it's highly likely there are going to be abnormalities. Contrary to what the mainstream believes, Lyme & coinfections are not easy to diagnose and even more difficult to treat for people who have been undiagnosed for so long. Indeed I hope we all can feel better. I have came across a study where Oregano Oil & Cinnamon Bark Oil are more effective at killing Lyme than RX antibiotics. But this is an test tube study only which hasn't been validated in humans yet.


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## KY23 (Apr 18, 2018)

Very interesting about cinnamon and bark tree oil. I know lyme can be very tough to treat after it being chronic for so long but I believe that nature has answers for us as well. I also know many people who have improved from chronic lyme after hitting it with iv antibiotics, normal anyibiotics. I would recommend looking into Stephen buhner's Lyme protocol, and talk with your doctor about including some of his herbs into your protocol. It couldn't hurt and I think they don't interfere with any medications.


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## WithYourSigh (Nov 25, 2012)

Michelle, please share whether the symptoms you experience are solely cognitive and psychiatric in nature.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

MichelleH said:


> So far I have been prescribed the antibiotic doxycycline for the Lyme and anti parasite med Mepron for babesia. As of now, my symptoms haven't really improved unfortunately since I have been dealing with these infections for such a long time. Depending on what the Spect brain scan reveals I may get prescribed IV antibiotics though considering my symptoms I think it's highly likely there are going to be abnormalities. Contrary to what the mainstream believes, Lyme & coinfections are not easy to diagnose and even more difficult to treat for people who have been undiagnosed for so long. Indeed I hope we all can feel better. I have came across a study where Oregano Oil & Cinnamon Bark Oil are more effective at killing Lyme than RX antibiotics. But this is an test tube study only which hasn't been validated in humans yet.


Michelle, I hope I'm not overstepping here, but when I was treated for these conditions, I was informed by my Lyme doctor that, for the treatment of babesia to be successful, you have to couple the Mepron with another antibiotic (I believe that it was bactrim, but I can't remember positively. I'm confident that it wasn't doxy though). I was also informed that I had to take them for 5 months, and COULD NOt MISS A SINGLE DOSE, or we would have to begin the 5 month treatment all over again. So it might be worth your while to look into that. I know the science of Lyme treatment isn't the greatest, and different doctors do treat differently and believe different things. But just thought I'd point that out for you.


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## MichelleH (Oct 22, 2017)

WithYourSigh said:


> Michelle, please share whether the symptoms you experience are solely cognitive and psychiatric in nature.


It is the opinion of ILADS - the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society - that Lyme can manifest in purely psychiatric and cognitive ways. The Lyme lipoproteins are hydrophillic meaning that they are attracted to fatty cell membranes, including the brain myelin which is made of fat by definition.

I have been undiagnosed for over 10 years, and as of now most of my symptoms of cognitive/psychiatric such as dissociation, waking up and having no connection to my past or the people around me, feeling like decades of memories have been erased from my brain, no thought process, anhedonia, emotional numbing, social withdrawal, and many more glorious symptoms which make life not worth living.

Other symptoms I have/or have had are sleep problems, both insomnia and hypersomnia, random foot cramps, heart palpitations, hormonal imbalance, unrelenting fatigue, aversion to physical movement, etc.


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## MichelleH (Oct 22, 2017)

Chip1021 said:


> Michelle, I hope I'm not overstepping here, but when I was treated for these conditions, I was informed by my Lyme doctor that, for the treatment of babesia to be successful, you have to couple the Mepron with another antibiotic (I believe that it was bactrim, but I can't remember positively. I'm confident that it wasn't doxy though). I was also informed that I had to take them for 5 months, and COULD NOt MISS A SINGLE DOSE, or we would have to begin the 5 month treatment all over again. So it might be worth your while to look into that. I know the science of Lyme treatment isn't the greatest, and different doctors do treat differently and believe different things. But just thought I'd point that out for you.


I have only been treated for babesia for a short period of time for 2 weeks along with azithromycin. One thing is that the med is bloody expensive ($1000 Mepron, $400 generic). But most importantly, even though my testing was strongly positive for babesia, I really do not have the classic babesia symptoms now such as air hunger and shortness of breath so my main focus now is treating the Lyme which I am on IV Rocephin. I will say that I did do 40 sessions of Hyperbaric Oxygen about 6 months ago and I can't say that it had a positive lasting effect, maybe even a slightly negative effect. I hear that babesia lives on oxygen so that may be a reason for these lackluster results.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

Babesia is a tick borne parasite that infects red blood cells. It causes Babesiosis, which can be diagnosed by identifying the parasite in a sample of red blood cells. It is very treatable, according to the CDC.

Bartonella is a bacteria that primarily infects the lining of veins. It can originate from cat scratches and other sources. It is also treatable with antibiotics. When it is comorbid with Lyme disease, a 4-6 month

course of antibiotic treatment may be necessary to rid the individual of the infection. If DP/DR is caused by either of these infections, then successful treatment of the infections would resolve the DP./DR.

Since successful treatment of either of these conditions is readily available, is someone saying that their DP/DR was resolved in conjunction with that treatment?

Or, not?


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## WithYourSigh (Nov 25, 2012)

MichelleH said:


> It is the opinion of ILADS - the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society - that Lyme can manifest in purely psychiatric and cognitive ways. The Lyme lipoproteins are hydrophillic meaning that they are attracted to fatty cell membranes, including the brain myelin which is made of fat by definition.
> 
> I have been undiagnosed for over 10 years, and as of now most of my symptoms of cognitive/psychiatric such as dissociation, waking up and having no connection to my past or the people around me, feeling like decades of memories have been erased from my brain, no thought process, anhedonia, emotional numbing, social withdrawal, and many more glorious symptoms which make life not worth living.
> 
> Other symptoms I have/or have had are sleep problems, both insomnia and hypersomnia, random foot cramps, heart palpitations, hormonal imbalance, unrelenting fatigue, aversion to physical movement, etc.


Thank you for your comment, Michelle. Having suffered from stable DPD for the past 15 years, I have recently attempted to gather information regarding the possibility of Lyme disease manifesting in purely psychiatric symptoms but found it difficult to locate any case reports wherein symptoms were not multi-systemic. and so the stance of the ILADS is encouraging in a sense. I am now looking for a specific reference on the ILADS website.

I would like to inform those suffering from the disease that Dr. Thomas Levy, of the orthomolecular-medicine school, had reported successful treatment of chronic Lyme cases with IV vitamin C in daily doses of 100 g. for the duration of a month. Dr. Levy also believes it is possible for liposomal vitamin C in a dose of approximately 20 g. to be equal in efficacy to 100 g. of IV vitamin C, if not more efficacious.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

Dr Thomas Levy sounds like an interesting fellow. He was board certified in internal medicine and cardiology, but gave up his practices to work for a dentist who was promoting nutritional treatments (Vitamin C) therapies for diseases for which modern medicine has no cures.

He then went on to aquire a law degree to defend his alternative treatments. I don't believe there is an orthomolecular medical school. The terms orthomolecular and medicine are not compatable by today's standards. Perhaps orthomolecular and nutritional school is more accurate.

Someday, Dr. Levy will be regarded as a man ahead of his time, or a quack looking to make easy money selling vitamins and supplements. Levy was once an Associate Professor at Capital University of Integrative Medicine, which was allegedly founded by a fraud and operated

as a diploma mill generating worthless degrees before it closed. "*Despite '15 years of research' Dr Levy has not published a single peer-reviewed article on the link between vitamin C and disease. *

Believing vitamin C can prevent and cure all disease may cause life-threatening delays to people starting genuine medical treatment.* "*


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## esroh (Jan 4, 2017)

heres my situation: i got chronic but fairly mild dr in childhood around age 7-9 and it was quite obviously linked to my family situation back then. It got a lot worse 2 years ago through a mental breakdown.

BUt: i did have a fuckton of ticks as a child, was always in nature n stuff.

I wonderder if lyme or any related disease could be causing the dr but the thing is that i dont have any physical issues at all, in fact im way more healthy than most people i know.

So my dr is also purely a mental phenomenon where i just feel incredibly spaced out/dreamlike/not present.

Is it really likely that lyme could becausing this especially giving my fairly traumatic childhood situation?

my healh anxiety is just getting triggered if you understand^^ id like to hear your thoughts


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

MichelleH said:


> I have only been treated for babesia for a short period of time for 2 weeks along with azithromycin. One thing is that the med is bloody expensive ($1000 Mepron, $400 generic). But most importantly, even though my testing was strongly positive for babesia, I really do not have the classic babesia symptoms now such as air hunger and shortness of breath so my main focus now is treating the Lyme which I am on IV Rocephin. I will say that I did do 40 sessions of Hyperbaric Oxygen about 6 months ago and I can't say that it had a positive lasting effect, maybe even a slightly negative effect. I hear that babesia lives on oxygen so that may be a reason for these lackluster results.


I remember thinking about doing the hyperbaric oxygen, but not really hearing very good results, combined with the time and financial commitment that takes just made it not worth the effort. Walking up to the corner store is a momentous torturous experience so having to go in for many many sessions was just not up my alley.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

Don't they have tests for Lyme disease? Yes, they do. Take it out of the realm of the theoretical and hypothetical, and get some answers.

*Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) test.* The test used most often to detect Lyme disease, ELISA detects antibodies to B. burgdorferi. But because it can sometimes provide false-positive results, it's not used as the sole basis for diagnosis.

*Western blot test.* If the ELISA test is positive, this test is usually done to confirm the diagnosis. In this two-step approach, the Western blot detects antibodies to several proteins of B. burgdorferi.

And so, take the ELISA and if it is negative, you don't have Lyme. If it is positive, get the Western blot test to ensure it is not a false positive.

Now, you know whether you have Lyme or not.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

forestx5 said:


> Don't they have tests for Lyme disease? Yes, they do. Take it out of the realm of the theoretical and hypothetical, and get some answers.
> *Enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) test.*
> 
> The test used most often to detect Lyme disease, ELISA detects antibodies to B. burgdorferi. But because it can sometimes provide false-positive results, it's not used as the sole basis for diagnosis.​
> ...


If only it were this easy. Numerous studies have shown that this standard two-tier testing misses culture-confirmed cases of Lyme (active infection) anywhere between 40% and 60% of the time. Unfortunately Lyme testing is nowhere near as confident as HIV testing, for example.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

The tests are not accurate during the 1s 3 weeks of infection. (40-60% inaccurate). Once the body has been given sufficient time to produce antibodies, the accuracy improves significantly. (The test is 87 percent accurate once Lyme spreads to the neurological system, and 97 percent accurate for patients who develop Lyme arthritis).

I wouldn't let numerous reports of inaccuracy prevent me from having diagnostics that are 87-97% accurate. If this disease is a long term health hazard, I can afford to wait 3 weeks before having the testing.

If I have the bullseye rash, and I have been bitten by a tick at that site, I get the antibiotic treatments without the diagnostics. They are not necessary. I have Lyme..

Easy enough for me. The CDC will approve more definitive testing procedures if/when they become available.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

I agree, have the testing done. I just wouldn't rule out the possibility that it could still be Lyme just because of testing that came back negative.

It's also a really sorry state of affairs that a person has to wait until up to 3 weeks of being infected and having the bacteria wreak havok on your body before most doctors will diagnose and treat you. Don't know why doctors are so conservative when it comes to Lyme but they hand out antibiotics like candy for everything else, including viral infections (more of my ranting on how stupid the medical profession is). Basically if you don't have or don't notice a bulls-eye easy with Lyme, you're pretty fucked.


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## kevin1983 (Jul 7, 2016)

if anybody suspects they have lyme or similar co infections then i suggest testing with iGenex as their the more sensitive and reliable lab for tic borne infections, im getting tested through them soon since I just recently tested positive for band 41 antibody iGG from quest which is a cheap lab and I have severe derealization, trouble concentrating, chronic depression, adrenaline fatigue, visual disturbances and low testosterone. iGenex will check all bands as mainstream labs have a history of coming out negative when in fact you can still be suffering from lyme


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

kevin1983 said:


> if anybody suspects they have lyme or similar co infections then i suggest testing with iGenex as their the more sensitive and reliable lab for tic borne infections, im getting tested through them soon since I just recently tested positive for band 41 antibody iGG from quest which is a cheap lab and I have severe derealization, trouble concentrating, chronic depression, adrenaline fatigue, visual disturbances and low testosterone. iGenex will check all bands as mainstream labs have a history of coming out negative when in fact you can still be suffering from lyme


I purposely refrained from mentioning iGenix simply because they are criticized for being too specific and lacking in specificity (though I'm unaware of any scientific testing that demonstrates this, I do think it has some merit, at least).

Basically, everything about Lyme is controversial, which sucks to wade through for anyone, let alone those of us with severe cognitive and mobility issues. When I was considering Lyme as a possibility for my symptoms, I had a standard test performed (western blot -- the doc skipped the Eliza test) and it came back negative. Then I had iGenix performed and it came back floridly positive. So which was right? Or perhaps the were both wrong? In the end, I ended up treating. My reasoning was that it was very possible that my symptoms were the result of Lyme & co (I'm from a Lyme endemic area, symptoms have been mostly progressive through the years, psych treatments do nothing for me and I have many physical treatments as well), and so I figured the potential benefits outweighed the risks. It didn't really work (some gastrointestinal symptoms improved moderately, but not much else). But since my life has been ebbing between nothingness and abject pain and terror for going on a decade now, it was worth trying everything I could think of that could potentially help me.

And that is my general recommendation for those who think Lyme might be part of your clinical picture. Instead of relying on the veracity of tests, ask yourself, how likely is it that I could have contracted Lyme? Are my symptoms commensurate with a diagnosis? How bad am I suffering right now? Is treatment worth it? And go from there.


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## kevin1983 (Jul 7, 2016)

you need an LLMD, lyme literate medical doctor which i should also mention as the infectious doctor i saw refused to treat me regardless of me not meet minimum lyme specific criteria on my tests and he also was completely clueless what an LLMD was called, the guy was a joke so get an llmd instead of wasting time with govt regulated cdc puppets since these clowns wont help you


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