# depersonalization and intelligence



## alec.james (Dec 3, 2008)

Hi, I'm new here. Alec, 16, Southern California, 2 years, marijuana.

I've noticed that a large slice of the DP pie is highly articulate, which is a trait that I normally take to indicate good reason and intelligence. Connection or coincidence?


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## Spike13 (Oct 12, 2008)

Yeah,it seems there's a connection between "too much" intelligence and DPDR...most of the people I know that has it have a sometimes whopping high IQ. Intelligence can be in excess sometimes, because smart people tend to overthink everything they do and experience, like their lives are felt like playing chess all the time, and that's tiring.
I always think about the consequences of doing this or that action,pondering endlessly the benefit/discomfort ratio before I even make a move...no spontaneity :? In the end I do nothing, for fear of bad things happening if I begin something new. I only do things I know I do well and, my life end up being boring and predictable...Gosh! I talked too much, sorry


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## bark (Nov 7, 2005)

Sorry, But i have chronic Dp and I'm a dumb ass....
No concentration, not big on vocab, not a good speller, can't process information for the life of me. 
No link to intelligence here. I have to read an article 5 fives to even understand it. And no, I do not have
ADD. I've been tested and tried treatment. :roll:


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## usedtobe (Sep 8, 2007)

Intelligence and IQ are probably not the right words to use. Yes, many people with DP seem to very smart. I think the last IQ test I took I was in the high average range. So im no Mensa genius, but im smarter than over 50% of the sheeple walking around. Good enough for me.

I don't believe that intelligence has anything to do with DP/DR. I do, however, believe that people who get DP/DR are very thoughtful and self reflective/possibly very sensitive people.


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## drawynitsed (Dec 14, 2008)

I don't think it's that DP suffers are smarter so much that we think things through a little more.
Our disconnection to the world probably gives us an "outsiders" few of things; seperates our emotions from our reasoning. 
Part of being wise is seeing things from both sides and reasoning out the answer or truth.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

I hope there is a connection between dp and intelligence. It will make me feel a little bit better about myself haha
I feel so stupid a lot of times...


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2008)

alec.james said:


> Hi, I'm new here. Alec, 16, Southern California, 2 years, marijuana.
> 
> I've noticed that a large slice of the DP pie is highly articulate, which is a trait that I normally take to indicate good reason and intelligence. Connection or coincidence?


Hello Alec,
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been a controlled study that proves individuals with DP/DR are any more "intelligent" than the average population.

Firstly, the group represented here on the Board is very skewed. We have access to computers. Our computer literacy alone indicates perhaps higher education, living in (or coming from) a higher class. Also, there are not a lot of minorities here.

One reason for that is minorities do not seek medical attention, and especially psychiatric attention. They feel mental illness is shameful. So there is a huge population that refuse help or do not get help who are left out of the equation.

Also, there is a huge gap in research in underdeveloped countries -- countries that are more concerned purely about survival than mental health.

There are also different cultural interpretations of mental illness. I believe some still believe it is possession, or in a more positive light -- enlightenment. I of course believe neither. IMHO.

Also, most of us here have MORE than just DP/DR. We have anxiety, depression, bipolar, borderline and all manner of other problems. Some DP here was drug induced, some not.

All I know is DP/DR for me has HINDERED my intelligence or rather my ability to perform cognitively -- thinking, concentrating, remembering, figuring out tasks. I have trouble with my memory (always have since childhood), concentration, etc. Part of this is due to anxiety, *but a few studies have born out the DP/DR individuals are affected negatively in cognitive tests. I can't site them, but they're out there.*

But also, we know PTSD is common and REAL, and there is much research going into that. It is my understanding that individuals with this are no more or less intelligent than others. The spectrum of research there also includes a greater number of individuals from all walks of life. I believe 30% of those with PTSD have episodes of DP/DR.

*IQ as well, as far as I'm concerned only serves on real purpose. It is extremely helpful in determining if someone is of inability to achieve in school, life, occupation -- a child with Down Syndrome or a serious learning disability, or a child who is a genius. Both of these groups need special attention and guidance.*

I took an IQ test in the 1980s. Mind you this was after I got a BA and MA and was recognized for being an "intelligent" person with promise.

I essentially failed the IQ test. The psychologist who performed it -- it was about 6 hours of a two day period -- said, "This is in no way a reflection of your abilities. It only reflects how anxious and disconnected you are." Do NOT ask me how I achieved what I did in my early years, though my grades Pre-K through 12th were all over the place. I FOUGHT to do well. And I remember taking the Graduate Record Exam to get into my MA and sat there for 15 minutes unable to read it ... it looked like Greek. I passed, but no where near what I could have done if I weren't anxious and DP.

I consider myself intellilgent, but I consider my ability to dissociate a real pain in the ass. I know many very intelligent people -- famous people I grew up with -- who do NOT have DP. If anything it would seem many who are healthy have a BETTER time succeeding in life. Mental illness is a scourge that cheats you out of a lot of things.

All IMHO.
D


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2008)

I think also "intelligence" can have differant interpretations.Wisdom about life comes with age, growth and experience.I wouldnt say I was intelligent although I am told I am,every psychiatrist Ive had tells me I am intelligent and have alot of insight, but if I did an IQ test it would probably say otherwise.During my first few years in high school I got top marks and was a total swot but then I just stopped trying and I couldnt concerntrate due to problems at home. I bunked classses in school, became a rebel, and nobody cared that much.I wasnt encouraged to learn at all and I skipped my exams much to my deep regret.I come from a disfuctional uneducated family.Everything I have learned comes from my own life experience and because now I love to learn and I am a very ambitious and pasionate person.Because of my problems and difficulties growing up acheiving anything has allways been that much harder and at times like climbing a mountain.There are also differant types of intelligence-there is emotional intelligence.I dont think we should or can judge a person on intelligence accuratly.Everybody has the same potential to learn and acheive but unfortunatly some people dont have the opportunities or encouragment that others have.I cirtainly think Dp,d makes people question things much more and think about things to a greater degree.Dp,d hindered my ability to learn things , to remember things ,to cognise things, to think clearly etc....You could say that cunning and crafty people are more intelligent in their plans than simple people, but is that a good thing? I think not.In my opinion the want to learn, being passionate ,having courage, ambition, and emotional sensitivity are far more important and wiser qualities.There are some people who think that they know everything, they are most ignorant pompus arrogent people on the planet who are so closed minded to learning anything new or having their ideas challenged, they alienate people.We all have the potential for greater intelligence, we all have a good mind ,its what you do with it thats important.How do you define intelligent?


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2008)

Firstly, Spirit I have to LOL at new words I learn from you Brits, such as "swot" and "bunked" :lol:

And I agree there are many different forms of intelligence! I'd say the "intelligence" of the Bush administration is in question for example, as well as those on Wall Street, and sadly those in the auto industry. Also I'd say, many were "clever as a Fox" in making a bundle out of greed, but not noticing they were creating a house of cards. I forgot who wrote the book, "The Best and the Brightest" which was actually a comment on how the "best and the brightest" can cause disaster. It is not a compiment.

Also, I guarantee, life experience contributes to "street smarts" and "life smarts" at minimum. I can say I am far more wise than I was even in my 30s. As they say, "Youth is wasted on the young." Not all, but you don't "get life" until you live it -- and then it's gone.

I'm not really sure how you do define intelligence, but I will say I also have a "passion to learn." This seems lacking in young people today. It scares me, especially here in the US where a kid thinks it is easy to be a music star and they don't need to study -- they think they don't need to study MUSIC! :shock:

This is killing me. I come back here today for two reasons. I can't figure something out on my website -- technical and I'm losing my mind, and the alternative is to go out in 22F weather to clean a foot of snow off my car, start it and just drive it.


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2008)

Dreamer* said:


> Also, I guarantee, life experience contributes to "street smarts" and "life smarts" at minimum. I can say I am far more wise than I was even in my 30s. As they say, "Youth is wasted on the young." Not all, but you don't "get life" until you live it -- and then it's gone.


I grew up pretty quickly and learned alot of hard lessons quite early on, also having kids makes you grow up pretty quickly, but sure Im 30 and I realise I still have so much more to learn and I learn new lessons every day.I would be naive if I said I had learned everything because I know Im still growing.Recovering from BPD is like "growing up" in a sence.I know in these last few years Ive come along way on that journey, Ive become a woman and far more of a mother than I was and have left the angst behind me.Your concerns and focus change as you mature I have found, you learn what is trully important and the trivial things in life just dont really bother me that much anymore.I find Im no longer interested in getting involved in conflict so much, I find im far more accepting and laid back and can live and let live.



> I'm not really sure how you do define intelligence, but I will say I also have a "passion to learn." This seems lacking in young people today. It scares me, especially here in the US where a kid thinks it is easy to be a music star and they don't need to study -- they think they don't need to study MUSIC! :shock:


Agreed and this is something that does really bother me.Nobody seems to have any real passion for what they do anymore, everybody wants ready made, a job half done, a quick fix, conveinience, an easy life, things handed on a plate, artificiality, .......What about love and craftsmanship and passion and care and imagination for things.I try and encourage my children to learn new things, I loath that their dad allows them to play on the computer so much so when I see them we spend time doing art and craft activities and I was so happy the other week to hear my youngest of 6 years say "Mum this is way better than being on the computer all day"-it had sparked his imagination, something children no longer seem to use.

For sure, we never stop learning.


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