# Patriot Act blocked



## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Anti-terrorism Patriot Act blocked in Senate By Thomas Ferraro 
2 hours, 59 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A group of U.S. senators, demanding increased protection of civil liberties, defied President George W. Bush on Friday by blocking renewal of the USA Patriot Act, a centerpiece of his war on terrorism.

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A showdown bid to end debate and move to passage of renewal legislation fell eight votes short of the needed 60 in the 100-member Senate. The vote was 52-47, with a handful of Republicans joining most Democrats in a procedural roadblock.

Bush replied, "The senators who are filibustering the Patriot Act must stop their delaying tactics so that we are not without this critical law for even a single moment."

The Patriot Act was first passed after the September 11, 2001, attacks to expand the authority of the federal government on such fronts as information sharing, obtaining private records and conducting secret searches and roving wiretaps in its effort to track down suspected terrorists.

Approved earlier this week by the House of Representatives, the renewal legislation would make permanent 14 provisions set to expire on December 31, and extend three others for four years.

Senate Democratic and Republican foes of this legislation said despite increased judicial and congressional oversight contained in it, the government would still have too much power to pry into the lives of law-abiding Americans.

But they said expiring provisions could be swiftly renewed if lawmakers agreed to better balance national security with civil liberties.

A DANGEROUS GAME

"None of us wants it to expire, and those who threaten to let it expire rather than fix it are playing a dangerous game," said Sen. Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record), a Vermont Democrat.

Leahy and others again offered to renew expiring provisions as now written for three months to give both sides time to resolve differences. But congressional Republicans leaders rejected it, and so did the White House.

"The president's made it very clear that he is not interested in signing any short-term renewal," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. "The terrorist threats will not expire at the end of this year. They won't expire in three months. We need to move forward and pass this critical legislation."

The Senate showdown over the Patriot Act occurred as the U.S. Congress sought to wrap up its work for the year and go home for the holidays.

Fifty Republicans and two Democrats unsuccessfully voted to end debate on the renewal legislation; five Republicans, one independent and 41 Democrats blocked it.

With complaints by some conservatives as well as liberals, House and Senate negotiators agreed in a recent conference report to increase the protection of the civil liberties in the Patriot Act.

But Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, said, "In my view, and in the view of many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, the conference report still does not contain enough checks on the expanded powers."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, said he may bring the renewal measure up for a vote again in coming days, and predicted it would pass if "people really understand it."

Sen. John Sununu (news, bio, voting record), a New Hampshire Republican, stood by his opposition, saying, "In my state, I think there's pretty strong support for protecting civil liberties during times of war and peace."


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

*The Bush Administration's proposed:*

*Glory Hallelujah Stars And Stripes Forever God Bless America Act*

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Was very happy to hear about that. Evidentally, there are still some sane people in the US government.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

sebastian said:


> Was very happy to hear about that. Evidentally, there are still some sane people in the US government.


Yeah, but I can still see myself with a black hood over my head, and my arms bound behind my back (surrounded by a bunch of my fellow Americans who are likewise restrained), all in the name of "sacrificing freedom to preserve freedom" (brought to us by the same people who gave us "destroying the village to save the village") by the end of this decade.

Today's jokes have a way of becoming tomorrow's realities, in one form or another (even the lame ones).

e


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Bushy is really crying about the patriot act being blocked. Hes claiming its potential trouble every minute we dont have it. We need it for our "war on terror". What a joke. Ive read that since bush rattled the hornets nest(Iraq) terrorist acts have increase by something like 300% worldwide. I dont believe a word this man says.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

give me the black hood and hook me up to the car battery now!! anything but this.....

http://www.kcra.com/news/5577000/detail.html :shock:


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

I hope it never is reinstated. I dont really care if it helps to stop terrorists - That isnt the point. You stick to principles because they are in and of themselves good things, not because they are easy to uphold. I honestly would rather see us hit with another terrorist attack, or a dozen, than give up the liberties on which our country was founded. If you do, you're that much closer to being like the terrorists and allowing them to strip us of our bravery and dignity. I have a hard time thinking that a man I admire, Patrick Henry, wouldnt have agreed when he stated, "Give me liberty or give me death!"

Peace
Homeskooled


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

*Cheney Calls for Stronger Presidential Powers*
*Vice President Says Bush Has Authority to Spy on Americans*
By DEB RIECHMANN, AP

WASHINGTON (Dec. 21) - Vice President Dick Cheney on Tuesday called for "strong and robust" presidential powers, saying executive authority was eroded during the Watergate and Vietnam eras. Some lawmakers objected that President Bush's decision to spy on Americans to foil terrorists showed he was flexing more muscle than the Constitution allows.

The revelations of Bush's four-year-old order approving domestic surveillance without court warrants has spurred a fiery debate over the balance of power between the White House, Congress and the judiciary.

"I believe in a strong, robust executive authority and I think that the world we live in demands it," Cheney said.

"I would argue that the actions that we've taken there are totally appropriate and consistent with the constitutional authority of the president. ... You know, it's not an accident that we haven't been hit in four years," the vice president said, speaking with reporters on Air Force Two en route from Pakistan to Oman.

On Capitol Hill, senators from both parties said the role of Congress cannot be sidelined - even in wartime.

"I think the vice president ought to reread the Constitution," said Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.

Democrats said they were deeply troubled by the surveillance program, and contended the president had no authority to approve it. "He has no legal basis for spying on Americans without court approval," said Sen. Richard Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Democrat in the Senate.

Republicans said Congress must investigate whether Bush was within the law to allow the super-secret National Security Agency to eavesdrop - without warrants - on international calls and e-mails of Americans and others inside the United States with suspected ties to al-Qaida.

"I believe the Congress - as a coequal branch of government - must immediately and expeditiously review the use of this practice," said Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine.

Snowe joined three other members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, including Nebraska Republican Chuck Hagel, in calling for a joint inquiry by the Senate judiciary and intelligence committees.

The administration defends the program, saying Congress gave Bush the authority to use "signals intelligence" - wiretaps, for example - to eavesdrop on international calls between U.S. citizens and foreigners when one of them is a suspected al-Qaida member or supporter.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales cites the Authorization to Use Military Force law, which Congress passed and Bush signed a week after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The administration believes that law lets the government avoid provisions of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

The surveillance act was passed after public outcry over abuses during the Nixon administration, which spied on anti-war and civil rights protesters. Under the act, known as FISA, an 11-member court oversees government applications for secret surveillance or searches of foreigners and U.S. citizens suspected of terrorism or espionage.

"I'm not a lawyer, but in my reading, it is pretty conclusive, very conclusive, that FISA prohibits all warrantless electronic surveillance of Americans in America," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.

Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., asked: "Why didn't the administration feel that it could go to the FISA court to get the warrant?"

Rep. John Conyers of Michigan, the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, introduced a bill calling on Congress to determine whether there are grounds for impeachment - an event that is extremely unlikely in a Republican-controlled Congress.

Democrats called attention to a Bush statement in April 2004 that they said conflicts with what the president is saying now.

"Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires - a wiretap requires a court order," Bush said during a speech on the Patriot Act in Buffalo, N.Y. "Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so."

The White House said the president's comments - two years after approving the domestic surveillance program - applied to the kind of roving wiretaps the Patriot Act allows for law enforcement, not eavesdropping for foreign intelligence.

Bush and his top advisers have suggested senior congressional leaders vetted the program in more than a dozen highly classified briefings. Democrats said they were told of the program, but had concerns.

West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, the Senate Intelligence Committee's top Democrat, on Monday released a letter he wrote to Cheney in July 2003 that, given the program's secrecy, he was "unable to fully evaluate, much less endorse these activities."

Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, R-Kan., pushed back Tuesday, saying that if Rockefeller had concerns about the program, he could have used the tools he has to wield influence, such as requesting committee or legislative action. "Feigning helplessness is not one of those tools," Roberts said.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who headed the Justice Department's criminal division when the monitoring program was in its infancy, rejected suggestions it is tantamount to a police state. "We'd be remiss if we didn't use all of the legal means available to defend ourselves," he said Tuesday on Fox News.

Cheney told reporters that in his view, presidential authority has been weakened since the 1970s through laws such as the War Powers Act, which Cheney says infringes on presidential authority.

He said the White House has helped protect presidential power by fighting to keep secret the list of people who were a part of his 2001 energy task force. The task force's activities attracted complaints from environmentalists, who said they were shut out of discussions on developing a national energy policy while corporate interests were present.

"That issue was litigated all the way up to the Supreme Court and we won," Cheney said.

Associated Press writers Nedra Pickler in Oman and Katherine Shrader, Liz Sidoti, Elizabeth White in Washington contributed to this report.

12-21-05 01:56 EST


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

When I look at Cheney, all I see is evil.


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Me, too! The man totally "looks" evil. Bush can hide it behind his gooberhead look, but Chaney doesn't have a chance. Evil is as evil does.

Now is it just me or does the new Pope not have quite the serene look of John Paul? This new guy seems to have a " hard" look to him. I think his spinners need to work on that instead of his shoes. :lol:

Enigma, I think that's just Cheney's way of upping his own powers for when he "thinks" he'll be president. If this happens I shall take to my bed until death overtakes me.

I'd rather see a mophead for President.

Seriously.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

terri* said:


> Enigma, I think that's just Cheney's way of upping his own powers for when he "thinks" he'll be president.


Did someone say................_powers?_

Cheney's _already_ got 'em.

He just sounds to me like he's not only trying to excuse the inexcusable, he's also seeking legal sanction for it.

As for having a mophead for a president: we've already got that too.

e


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Yessssssssss.

And?

:|

Wrong useage of the word or what? :? 

( Obviously I feel multiple emoticons are needed to explain
your question and why you highlighted it in blue. :wink: )

So, whatz up? What'd I say?

highlighted in blue no less. :shock:

:lol:


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

terri* said:


> Yessssssssss.
> 
> And?
> 
> ...


It's a link, click on it. (It's really funny.)

Satirical, but close enough to reality.

e


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Gotta love The Onion! :lol:

Hey, did you add some afterthoughts to your first 
blue highlighted post? 8)

Just wanted to tell you...

*You are absolutely right !!*










Cheney holding Bush upside down. At least it disguises his gooberhead face. Talk about your basic "stick" figurehead ". :?


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

terri* said:


> Hey, did you add some afterthoughts to your first
> blue highlighted post? 8)


Yeah, just wanted to clarify the point:

I doubt Cheney thinks he's ever going to be president. But he already has enough power through Bush that he doesn't _need_ the official title.

Consequently, whatever makes Bush more powerful actually makes _Cheney_ more powerful in the here and now.



> Just wanted to tell you...
> 
> *You are absolutely right !!*
> 
> ...


LOL, terri*. :lol:

e


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

*NYT: NSA Spying Broader Than Bush Admitted*

NEW YORK (AP) - The National Security Agency has conducted much broader surveillance of e-mails and phone calls - without court orders - than the Bush administration has acknowledged, The New York Times reported on its Web site.

The NSA, with help from American telecommunications companies, obtained access to streams of domestic and international communications, said the Times in the report late Friday, citing unidentified current and former government officials.

The story did not name the companies.

Since the Times disclosed the domestic spying program last week, President Bush has stressed that his executive order allowing the eavesdropping was limited to people with known links to al-Qaida.

But the Times said that NSA technicians have combed through large volumes of phone and Internet traffic in search of patterns that might lead to terrorists.

The volume of information harvested from telecommunications data and voice networks, without court-approved warrants, is much larger than the White House has acknowledged, the paper said, quoting an unnamed official.

The story quoted a former technology manager at a major telecommunications firm as saying that companies have been storing information on calling patterns since the Sept. 11 attacks, and giving it to the federal government. Neither the manager nor the company he worked for was identified.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I also hear, gleefully, that in the states ID (Intelligent Design theory - insane religous alternative to evolution) has been banned by the courts. Not allowed to teach that drivel in schools.

So yes Joe, although your government seems to be filled with religious zealots, at least the courts seem to have their heads screwed on.

Ha - a law has also been passed over here allowing same civil 'marriages'. In the entire country, over the thousands of 'wedding's took place in one day, and a huge total of 11 religous loons protested about it. One said: "There's nothing wrong with gay people themselves, they can't help the way they are. It's genetic stuff. But they are still committing evil acts."

:lol: :lol: :lol: Genius.


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