# My ULTIMATE cure to dp/dr



## pinggvin

I feel sorry to make post just now, i wanted to do it months ago but big problems started in my life and im ocuppied.. I feel guilty for not doing it for so long, but i want to do it now while there will be some more good time outside in August/September. 
I wont write all my situation and how it started, but i ask you to carefully read all i write

Back in time when i had it i was in dreadful state, very dreadful. Unreal feeling, brain felt like it worked for just 10%, flat world, no concentration,blurry sight, monitor-like vision, no "colors" , no emotions, visual anomalies, zero concentration, on top of that family issues.. Just all the terrible symptoms you all know and could talk about on this site i had them. It was so bad that i couldnt even cry.. I was like robot, ghost, plant, ... in certain situations i literally believed i died, and couldnt understand why im still here when i "passed"

Over the time i tried many things, "super foods" , aminoacids, hypnosis thing.. I tried L-tyrosine, NAC (n-acetyl cysteine), Gingko, Gingko+ some herb mix and many more i cant even remember... I spent bunch of money on doctors, tests, analysis... (Just to mention some of those supplements helped certain people, and it might help you also, but i dont think i found them much useful)
I had it chronic and my brain felt like "fried" all the time.
Anyway vitamins and minerals are good choice and could help you (not necessary if you have diverse diet). They are cheap, harmless and can be great since most of people have low levels of certain vitamins/minerals . Deficiencies can result in also bad symptoms

Ok now lets jump to dp/dr,

"Positive thinking, socialising, "its just anxiety" thing , 'Let it go", phrases didnt work for me. I couldnt express any emotion, i was robotic and being around people just made it all worse. (I still feel bad for people that are trying to socialise with dp/dr thinking it will just "cure" them)

Before i write you what definitely worked for my dp/dr and state of it , I want to mention that not everything people have is DP/DR. Many people have certain deficiencies, which all produce symptoms like dizziness, brain fog, mental & physical fatigue , and it is mistaken for DP/DR. I know by myself, what iron and vitamin d3 deficiency feels like and how badly it affects both mental & physical health. Viruses/allergies or mercury toxicity can do it also, but those cases are rare. So first of all get your general blood tests, and also test for anything you suspect

So, since most of us have/had anxiety/drugs and high stress induced dp/dr therefore the problem lies in brain area, im certain my "key" to recovery isnt something that worked just for me. Im hundred percent sure this is the way of beating up and getting over the most and the hardest symptoms that comes with dp/dr

Nothing is easy, so you will have to work hard for this. This key lies in hard working , changing life plan, and it doesnt really take much time, but its not easy 
Also keep in mind , no matter how bad you feel and how depressed , stressed or anxious you are now, or how little sleep you get. It all doesnt matter once you get dp/dr . When you get it you get it , you can feel worse temporary. And from chronic state to "kinda livable" you can get in matter of days, it all depends on you.

Personally, i never believed i will get over this even to last day i felt major symptoms. So now if we go by logic many people preach here, and generally logic of "believe positive else you will never recover" I would actually never recover.

I couldnt be positive and live a life when i was almost literally braindead. That so, i found ways that are greatly working in reseting brain 
(Also to mention, dp/dr is set of symptoms. Everyone would like to wake up completely normal , or take a magic pill, but it just doesnt work that way. There are several symptoms that comes with dp/dr, and they usually goes away part by part. When you remove "major" issue and symptoms that brings apathy, depression, pressure, you will be able to live again)

Before i start, i will tell you what you definitely must not do. Its not big list, but im assured if you want to recover, you have to stop those

1.No coffe, because coffeine is terrible. I personally dont drink coffe but few times when i took energy drink, i felt terrible dp/dr symptoms temporary. I think everyone would agree with that
2. No alcohol definitely being drunk makes all worse
3. No weed or any drugs for sure, you are doing all in vain if you take weed or drugs while having dp/dr, no matter what else you do. You just have to stop doing those completely, since those are things that are feeding dp/dr and can make you get dp/dr in the first place

(When it comes to antipsychotics im not really sure, i never took them, but i would get off them slowly. I dont think they can help much with dp/dr, except with depression/stress/anxiety issues. I read some people get better with lamotrigine or wellbutrin but leave this by a side)

NOW once you stopped doing things that feeds dp/dr. You can follow the "KEY" of getting over dp/dr , that seemed like the only that really worked for me, out of all things i tried. You need strong will, and DECIDE "im gonna do this", and keep doing it every day. It will be hard on the beggining, it was hard to me too, since i was in horrible depression, apathy, and just general agony.. but i always pushed

Now what im talking of as ULTIMATE "cure" is, INTENSE PHYSICAL EXERCISE ( i will explain which and how, and which one works the best in purest way and why)
Look at this, when i was in worst situation and didnt know whats going on, when i believed i was on death bed, I started workouting very hard every day, for few hours a day. I did it for 2-3 days. From chronic "unfunctionable" state of dp/dr , i got to be able to function in just few days. I was still dp/dr-ed badly, but i could function atleast (i didnt believe that i died anymore, and i wasnt like plant). That exercising contained various pushups, martial art practicing , exercises, lifting heavy objects & weights, running. (usually did at home or outside not gym where people are).
I did it very intensively
It all worked for bringing me to function and I knew there is some connection, but it wasnt all that easy... Over the incoming months i had few glympses, but relapsed badly every time. It was up and down, i would feel "not so bad" for like 1-2 days and then next week horrible again.. Whenever i would be in chronic dp/dr, i would motivate myself to work out hard for next few days. I watched bruce lee clips (i was martial artist for years) and it motivated me greatly.. Unfortunately i couldnt keep exercising that intense every day as it would be hard for just anybody, not to mention for somebody with dp/dr

Then i wandered over internet again, searching and looking for an answer ,a new way, prayed ..
Then i found this post https://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/54514-how-strenuous-exercise-helped-my-dpdr/.
This post was like godsend to me, i wish i could hear from this guy but he isnt online anymore.. Yes, cycling for hours a day long distances at intense pace is THE BEST remedy for dp/dr. Guy who made this post said that he got cured in just 3 days, which sounds a bit unreal. It didnt work in 3 days for me, to me it started to work after like 5 days by doing it intensively for 4-5 hours, 30-40 miles daily, at different tempo, i went far away in other cities...
I felt terrible apathy, depression , dp/dr at first few days and being outside felt just so "heavy" to my brain... It only felt satisfying when i got home tired after a long day 
But then, after like 6-7 days ,cant remember exactly , next day by day, my dp/dr started to change it's "dimension". It started to shrink, i felt different somehow, pressure was going away day by day after that. I paused after some time,, but then i started again later ...In like total 20-25 days of driving bike (3-5 hours, 30-50 miles a day) , i literally managed to cut my dp/dr. It all started being different, i was able to live a life. To enjoy things again. I removed that "pressure" that makes you think about dp/dr 24/7. Visual anomalies were almost competely gone

So now ,its been like this for months and i never relapsed ever since. I have few slight symptoms left, typically when i wake up and few minutes after. I feel it slightly sometimes, but nothing serious, it lost it's power. You feel it when it lose powe, i still have a "scar" from it. But its just mild and doesnt control my life at all

I also believe my previous sessions of exercising also helped , but cycling is number 1
I would recommend everyone do it combined..

(Also to mention, light exercising and exercising for like 20-30 minutes wont do much. So dont tell i exercised but didnt help. Dont get me wrong any exercise will help you and bring you step closer, but you wont feel much difference immediately)

Like the guy who made that post i linked explained, difference is in interval training. Its not same when u gas out in short time and then your brain get a "bump" which is short, and comparing it to when you make your brain constantly work for hours with cycling + focus things like watching world outside, trees , cars, seeing world moving ..
I still think if you are at the beggining of your dp/dr, or you still have chronic one, that you should take time to rest first, then go hard mode which i explained with first exercises to break that first wall. Then start with cycling

By the way i think that supplements can be good choice so take anything you think can help you, starting from gym supplements, natural herbs (for anxiety/stress etc.) , vitamins & minerals, detox supplements (like Zeolite which is great for muscles also) etc.

I think the best plan for this , and one i would recommend everyone is doing 4-5 days of cycling , then 1 day of heavy workouts that i mentioned first, then rest 1 day. Change your lifestyle, do this "plan" few times, see the difference... While resting you can chill somehow, play games, watch movies.. Yes it can be hard cause it takes physical efforts, your days will look much longer and your time will pass way slower and much different from dp/dr.
You dont really need to socialise, you dont need anyone else. No psychiatrists, no need to ask for help from others. Ask only god

Take some money and go long way every day. Take care of yourself and take rests while cycling. No matter if you male or female, if you are in physical form or not, i believe this is just for everyone. You cant really lose anything, you can just profit from it...I really wish i will help atleast some of you. I would really like to get as many people to read this

Still i dont know what is your state, your life's going, other diagnoses, what else are you taking.. Although im still assured that everyone with dp/dr will profit from this, we are just all different in many ways

Some other posts i found useful : 
-
https://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/33315-i-am-cured-because-of-group-exercising/
https://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/14318-found-a-cure-please-read/
https://www.psychforums.com/depersonalization/topic64243.html

I may add some more links that may be helpful also, wish you all good luck


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## REB

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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## Glidarn

Intresting post, i want to try this, but im litterly so extremly disconnected from my body that i get scared when i for example run, because i litterly barely notice my breathing, i get scared i overtrain because my body dosent warn my in the same way it did without dp when you train to much or to hard. My heart pumps super fast and hard but i dont feel tired or exhausted cuz im so ferakin disconnected, im scared if i try something like this i will litterly die or pass out. And my dad has heart problems and mom has anxiety problems and i have had issues with my heart i beilive atleast, or back before dp maybe i was just very sensitive and noticed when my heart did weird things, when it does theese doubble jumps etc etc, it happend quite frequently in certain periods of my life. Any tips are very appreciated to help me start train without fear and how to make sure my body is "safe", thanks.


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## pinggvin

Glidarn said:


> Intresting post, i want to try this, but im litterly so extremly disconnected from my body that i get scared when i for example run, because i litterly barely notice my breathing, i get scared i overtrain because my body dosent warn my in the same way it did without dp when you train to much or to hard. My heart pumps super fast and hard but i dont feel tired or exhausted cuz im so ferakin disconnected, im scared if i try something like this i will litterly die or pass out. And my dad has heart problems and mom has anxiety problems and i have had issues with my heart i beilive atleast, or back before dp maybe i was just very sensitive and noticed when my heart did weird things, when it does theese doubble jumps etc etc, it happend quite frequently in certain periods of my life. Any tips are very appreciated to help me start train without fear and how to make sure my body is "safe", thanks.


I felt like the same way + physically tired but i kept doing it no matter what. It was dreadful but i didnt stop, although i speak from my experience i dont want you to get harm. I dont think you have serious problems, i believe its all dp/dr but dont take my word.. Go to doctors let him do heart CT scan its fast and simple if you believe you have heart problems. Check doctors first but after then, if i was on your place i would first start with those hard exercises , then rest for some time , then start with cycling sessions. Also its not really easy to keep up doing all those, dont "cut" it on half way, you need to somewhat become passionate about that and sport-ish person and also change your lifestyle completely for some time . Read last 3 links i posted it can be helpful considering that

And also take vitamins and minerals every day most of us today have poor diet in certain vitamins so they will help you brain and body works better (magnesium, d3 , b complex ...)


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## Fromhollandwithlove

Very nice post. I recently stopped working because the symptoms became so bad I couldn't cope any longer. Now I have all the time in the world so I'm going to try this and will update you in this thread. My depression became a lot worse since quitting my job because I'm just dreading at home.

Actually really looking forward to try this.

Btw, I don't have a road/racing bike. Would that be a problem? I just have a regular bike with gears.


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## pinggvin

Fromhollandwithlove said:


> Very nice post. I recently stopped working because the symptoms became so bad I couldn't cope any longer. Now I have all the time in the world so I'm going to try this and will update you in this thread. My depression became a lot worse since quitting my job because I'm just dreading at home.
> 
> Actually really looking forward to try this.
> 
> Btw, I don't have a road/racing bike. Would that be a problem? I just have a regular bike with gears.


 Hi, I dont think it really matters. Its not point to have better bike and shorten your way.. Point is to use it as longer and make your body work as much as longer, and while you are doing it by the way you should focus on outside world, watch objects and repeat its color for example.. Also watch cars ocassionaly and read their id and repeat in yourself.. just to train your focus. Its really bad thing to lock yourself at home. But also important thing (which many people with dp/dr will know) that you need to stop with coffee in the first place, and not to mention drugs or alcohol.. Coffeine is very bad for dp/dr


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## Fromhollandwithlove

Hi, thanks for responding! I have been cycling 2 days now, and must say: Feels good!

Had 2 trips of around 3.5 hours and going for my next one tomorrow. The only annoying thing that happens so far is that my DR gets worse when I'm almost done. Maybe this is because my heart is racing at this point and I'm fatigued. The evenings are great though, DR seems almost gone and I'm just ready for a lazy night on the couch (I can actually enjoy this).

Gonna be doing this for some time and will update here.


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## Glidarn

Fromhollandwithlove said:


> Hi, thanks for responding! I have been cycling 2 days now, and must say: Feels good!
> 
> Had 2 trips of around 3.5 hours and going for my next one tomorrow. The only annoying thing that happens so far is that my DR gets worse when I'm almost done. Maybe this is because my heart is racing at this point and I'm fatigued. The evenings are great though, DR seems almost gone and I'm just ready for a lazy night on the couch (I can actually enjoy this).
> 
> Gonna be doing this for some time and will update here.


Awesome, hopefully you get recovered, and if you do il be the next one to spam cycle


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## pinggvin

Fromhollandwithlove said:


> Hi, thanks for responding! I have been cycling 2 days now, and must say: Feels good!
> 
> Had 2 trips of around 3.5 hours and going for my next one tomorrow. The only annoying thing that happens so far is that my DR gets worse when I'm almost done. Maybe this is because my heart is racing at this point and I'm fatigued. The evenings are great though, DR seems almost gone and I'm just ready for a lazy night on the couch (I can actually enjoy this).
> 
> Gonna be doing this for some time and will update here.


Im glad! The way i did it was something like 3 -3.5 hours when its still day, then go home to rest for some time, then go out later at night for about 1 hour more since .. When it got worse i always went for more


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## mana_war

My city is not made for bikes.


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## MsPumpkin

I know this is kind of an older post, but I got motivated by it and hopped on my bike today. I'm definitely going to stick to this, I hope it can help me pierce through this horrible mental/emotional block. May I ask did you also completely lost your sense of self (who you are, your emotions, interests, etc.)? What caused your DP to kick in?


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## whatislife

I've been putting in at least 3 hours of biking for the last 5 days and this is really working guys! Get started today and share your experience!

You have no other choice. No medication or other method is going to save you. You can buy a stationary bike on Craigslist for next to nothing and pedal it for 3 hours a day in front of your TV and start to get your life back day by day. Within a week or two I should be fully recovered or close to it! You got nothing to lose ????

Recover for yourself first and recover secondly so you can share your recovery story and inspire others to follow in your footsteps

Can't wait to fully recover and shoot a video for YouTube to share this little known "ULTIMATE cure for DPDR". Thanks so much original poster!????????????????


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## PerfectFifth

> This post was like godsend to me, i wish i could hear from this guy but he isnt online anymore.. Yes, cycling for hours a day long distances at intense pace is THE BEST remedy for dp/dr. Guy who made this post said that he got cured in just 3 days, which sounds a bit unreal. It didnt work in 3 days for me, to me it started to work after like 5 days by doing it intensively for 4-5 hours, 30-40 miles daily, at different tempo, i went far away in other cities...
> I felt terrible apathy, depression , dp/dr at first few days and being outside felt just so "heavy" to my brain... It only felt satisfying when i got home tired after a long day
> But then, after like 6-7 days ,cant remember exactly , next day by day, my dp/dr started to change it's "dimension". It started to shrink, i felt different somehow, pressure was going away day by day after that. I paused after some time,, but then i started again later ...In like total 20-25 days of driving bike (3-5 hours, 30-50 miles a day) , i literally managed to cut my dp/dr. It all started being different, i was able to live a life. To enjoy things again. I removed that "pressure" that makes you think about dp/dr 24/7. Visual anomalies were almost competely gone


I'm sorry, but that's the most idiotic and ignorant thing I've read in a while. 4-5 hours of exercise every day? That's definitely NOT healthy, especially for someone whose base fitness isn't good. That's way, way, way, WAY too much exercise in such a short timespan. Your body needs time to recover. What you describe here is way too much even for professional athletes. Complete and utter insanity. You'll end up with severe chronic fatigue and all kinds of health problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining

That said, I'm in a very good shape and regularly go running (4 times a week). This has no direct impact on my DR, though it makes me feel better mentally.


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## Keep The Faith

PerfectFifth said:


> I'm sorry, but that's the most idiotic and ignorant thing I've read in a while. 4-5 hours of exercise every day? That's definitely NOT healthy, especially for someone whose base fitness isn't good. That's way, way, way, WAY too much exercise in such a short timespan. Your body needs time to recover. What you describe here is way too much even for professional athletes. Complete and utter insanity. You'll end up with severe chronic fatigue and all kinds of health problems.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining
> 
> That said, I'm in a very good shape and regularly go running (4 times a week). This has no effect on my DR whatsoever.


Agreed. If exercise helps people, then by all means they should go for it, but exercise alone is not going to cure this, and 4-5 hours of exercise is unrealistic and can be dangerous. Depersonalization stems from anxiety and trauma, which for some people can be really complex, and people really need to stop with the "Doing this ONE thing will cure you" type of posts, becasue there is not one cure for everyone.

I unfortunately have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and fibromyalgia so exercising intensely for just 20 minutes can literally make me bed-bound for the next few days after. Definitely not gonna try this "cure" anyway XD


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## chazhe

Physical exercise could definitely work for a lot of people, but I'm not sure if it works for everyone. In my case, physical exercise tends to make my dp much worse, and make me feel so numb.


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## fieldsmatt31

Obviously physical exercise alone helped the person who started the thread, and apparently a few others, unless they are lying. I believe them. It really doesn't surprise me at all that a person could rebound from DP totally just from exercise alone. Some people recover over time, naturally. Some people claim dieting and exercise helped them recover from DP. Some people require more time then others and/or counseling. Some people recover just by going on with their daily life normally. Some people claim to have DP syndrome for life, but that is more rare in my opinion.

One thing is for sure, you have to be careful claiming what helped you recover from DP as a cure. For some reason people get very upset about that. It is one remedy to help treat DP. I dont see the harm in making that claim. There is no harm, as long as people use sensible discretion. Obviously, you don;t want run so much to make your feet fall off. It's healthy to exercise, sensibly. It feels good to exercise. Personally, I am most at peace when Im jogging. Nothing bothers me when Im jogging.


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## PerfectFifth

fieldsmatt31 said:


> Obviously physical exercise alone helped the person who started the thread, and apparently a few others, unless they are lying. I believe them. It really doesn't surprise me at all that a person could rebound from DP totally just from exercise alone. Some people recover over time, naturally. Some people claim dieting and exercise helped them recover from DP. Some people require more time then others and/or counseling. Some people recover just by going on with their daily life normally. Some people claim to have DP syndrome for life, but that is more rare in my opinion.
> 
> One thing is for sure, you have to be careful claiming what helped you recover from DP as a cure. For some reason people get very upset about that. It is one remedy to help treat DP. I dont see the harm in making that claim. There is no harm, as long as people use sensible discretion. Obviously, you don;t want run so much to make your feet fall off. It's healthy to exercise, sensibly. It feels good to exercise. Personally, I am most at peace when Im jogging. Nothing bothers me when Im jogging.


Right. I would recommend exercise as well as it's one of those things that have the potential to just make you feel better overall, both physically and mentally, but saying you should try exercising 5 hours a day multiple days in a row is just detrimental, terrible advice. Try 3-4 times a week, 30min - 1h sessions. That's reasonable.


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## Phantasm

I think the type of exercise here is significant. Exercise in general will make you feel healthier and improve your self-esteem, so that's good, but I think there is something else at play with cycling, which requires intensive concentration and engagement with your environment. You are moving at speed and exposed to the elements, so you have to be focused on what you are doing and what is happening around you. This doesn't leave a lot of room for DP thoughts, so I imagine that if you did it for long periods of time, like a biking holiday, it could have a real benefit of drawing you out of yourself and retraining your attention.

So the interesting question is: How much of the positive effect is due purely to the physical exercise and how much is due to the mental engagement with a real world environment the activity requires? I expect they both play a part, so hopefully it may not be necessary to do these things to the extreme - interestingly there's an old technique monks would use to teach students clarity which was to make them run up a mountain until they dropped! Of course it's not possible for everyone to cycle five hours a day, even gently, but maybe there are some principles at work here that people can adapt for themselves. (Always consult your doctor before beginning any new exercise regime, yadda yadda yadda.)


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## James_80

I'm also sceptical about ultimate cures. I think it further adds to people's frantic search for that one thing that will banish dp for good, adding to the fear and obsession. Saying that, I do agree that exercise really helps mental health. I find if i do daily exercise, such as cycling, for about an hour a day, it starts to have an accumulative beneficial effect. I start feeling better and better each day. You can overdo these things if you push too hard of course, but if you're fit enough then the exercise really does seem to benefit mental health all round. It seems to drain that excess energy pent up in the body that may otherwise cause agitation/anxiety and also seems to help sleep and boost mood. Problem for me though is I live in probably the rainiest city in the world, which means I don't fancy cycling every day and getting soaked!

It makes sense that humans need a lot of exercise and are primed for it. There is a hypothesis that humans evolved to be really good endurance runners, to allow persistent hunting and gathering. This is due to our unique sweat function. Physical endurance lasts right into old age as well. So, going by this hypothesis, it would make sense that our bodies are expecting a lot of consistent exercise. There was one time I went on a long hill walk (walking for around 6 hours) and drank a ton of coffee and it completely obliterated my dp for about 24 hours. Thing is I really don't like hill walking. I find it a bit torturous and it's not realistic to do it every day, I'm sure that would be my personal ultimate cure if it was possible to do that all the time.


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## hanginginhere_ramen

Not doing as much as others, but I've been waking up an hour earlier and jogging a mile at the track near where I live. This has eliminated my morning anxiety completely. I still feel depressed but even when I'm skating to school after I meditate, I feel actually good and confident, just very muted. It hasn't done much for my dpdr, but I have a pretty low baseline to begin with. I also go jogging a mile after school, and I will end up walking or skating wherever I go later in the day cos I can't drive. The positive mood boost is insanely beneficial and I think a lot of people here could benefit from it, even if it doesn't cure you.


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## PerfectFifth

hanginginhere_ramen said:


> Not doing as much as others, but I've been waking up an hour earlier and jogging a mile at the track near where I live. This has eliminated my morning anxiety completely. I still feel depressed but even when I'm skating to school after I meditate, I feel actually good and confident, just very muted. It hasn't done much for my dpdr, but I have a pretty low baseline to begin with. I also go jogging a mile after school, and I will end up walking or skating wherever I go later in the day cos I can't drive. The positive mood boost is insanely beneficial and I think a lot of people here could benefit from it, even if it doesn't cure you.


Yeah, I agree. I also experience a significant improvement in mood during and after exercise. It may not cure DPDR, but it's definitely a positive thing nonetheless.


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## Layne

Cycling is known to be helpful for Parkinson's, another brain disorder. It seems some kind of mechanism from cycling can affect the brain in beneficial ways. Lots of YouTube vidoeos on this. Here's just one:


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## fieldsmatt31

I'm so happy to hear everyone's improvements here. Please, keep going. Don't just rely on exercise alone to help you feel better. Do other things also. Try to improve your diet. Also try stretching or yoga to improve your flexibility. These things will help you feel better, more confident, and more vibrant/lively and, in effect, help you to dispel DP/DR. It is very possible, I want to tell everyone.

The idea is to live healthy and to improve your over all state of well being. Be active in your pursuit to live well. This will help you to dispel DP/DR symptoms.

You can also practice meditation to help you feel more well. Bring your attention to the present moment. Center your self. Follow your breath. Breath, and quietly, patiently, and gently bring your attention into the stillness of the present moment. Here, in your heart, you are nurtured. Be patient, you will begin to notice improvements in your self as the day goes on. You can take your attention throughout all parts of your body. This helps to become more integrated as a mental, physical, and spiritual being.

I dont mean to sound like Deepak Chopra mumbo jumbo or anything but all of these things including meditation actually can improve your overall state of well being. And actually, you might find reading some Deepak Chopra or similar teachers to be helpful.

You can also research different meditation techniques/practices to find some that you enjoy.

Lastly, I want to say, as I always do, that I believe DP/DR is totally treatable. I had DP/DR for years. Where I am now, it seems like another lifetime ago. If anyone wants to talk just message me. I love you all.


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## Broken

Exercise and yoga are difficult to commit to regularly as the vast majority of the time I just dont feel like doing it. And when I do it it is kind of painful and uncomfortable. I tried an hour of yoga a day the other week and ran a mile a day, but got a promotion and just couldnt commit to doing it every day. But in that week I did feel better, more sociable and aware and embodied... but I started CBD and convinced myself it was that even though I started it after.

After having a bit of a rant about this, I have fallen back into the trap of taking something rather than DOING something. I think if you can do things that release endorphins and positive chemicals it can be better for your body to heal as you are activating those natural processes of natural painkillers, anti inflammatories and feel good hormones/neurotransmitters. If you can give it a boost naturally (and I dont even include diet in that really), I mean actively DOING stuff that would activate the brain networks alongside that so your brains default state is tilted towards rest and digest not anxiety and DP.

Having said all that, long walks and cycling does sound a good idea. MOST people could do 8-9hours walking a day, or 4-5 hours cycling. It would be tough but intensity is key. But walking and cycling by not pushing yourself could do wonders


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## James_80

It would be an interesting experiment for a group of people with dp to commit to walking or cycling 4 hours + a day for a week or two and see the response. I doubt you would get many participants and there would be a lot of drop outs but the results might help inform treatment possibilities for dp. Imagine your GP telling you to go cycling for 5 hours a day to cure dp. Errrr... have you got a pill for that instead?


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## yosoydiego

PerfectFifth said:


> I'm sorry, but that's the most idiotic and ignorant thing I've read in a while. 4-5 hours of exercise every day? That's definitely NOT healthy, especially for someone whose base fitness isn't good. That's way, way, way, WAY too much exercise in such a short timespan. Your body needs time to recover. What you describe here is way too much even for professional athletes. Complete and utter insanity. You'll end up with severe chronic fatigue and all kinds of health problems.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining


I'm extremely well read in exercise and training, nutrition, pharmacology, physiology, etc. Here is my opinion:

- I DO NOT think that extreme exercise (e.g. marathon, long triathlon, etc) is healthy, at all. Even daily 10k are nonsense. Exercise is best in moderation.

BUT:

- Doing it for a while, and properly, is fine.

- As the quote says: "Desperate times call for Desperate measures", and if you're reading this is because you suffer from DP/DR, a desperate time indeed.

- The term "overtraining" is always thrown way too lightly. It is NOT easy to reach that stage, we're talking about some serious serious intense competition training. Cycling 3hs-4hs per day as suggested in this post, will NOT be considered overtraining.

- Although some users here defend the advantages of frequent exercise, and needless to say it has plenty, the effects of a really intense exercise scheme like the one proposed here CAN NOT BE COMPARED. The body goes through a whole different series of adaptations, that are NOT AT ALL seen with "normal" exercise.

- I can definitely see how this type of exercising can modify the metabolism in many different ways, from autophagy, to energy stores to minerals, and could definitely affect the body and the brain in more than just the "feel good" way.

Reading a while before starting this plan is of course mandatory. Read about proper food and hydration, warm up, stretch, etc.
Start slow, don't try to go from 0-100 ... the LONG TERM GOAL should be to reach this training plan safely, not the FIRST DAY training.

I think it's definitely worth it, and safe if done properly.
Looking forward to hearing more reports about it.


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## PerfectFifth

yosoydiego said:


> I'm extremely well read in exercise and training, nutrition, pharmacology, physiology, etc. Here is my opinion:
> 
> - I DO NOT think that extreme exercise (e.g. marathon, long triathlon, etc) is healthy, at all. Even daily 10k are nonsense. Exercise is best in moderation.
> 
> BUT:
> 
> - Doing it for a while, and properly, is fine.
> 
> - As the quote says: "Desperate times call for Desperate measures", and if you're reading this is because you suffer from DP/DR, a desperate time indeed.
> 
> - The term "overtraining" is always thrown way too lightly. It is NOT easy to reach that stage, we're talking about some serious serious intense competition training. Cycling 3hs-4hs per day as suggested in this post, will NOT be considered overtraining.
> 
> - Although some users here defend the advantages of frequent exercise, and needless to say it has plenty, the effects of a really intense exercise scheme like the one proposed here CAN NOT BE COMPARED. The body goes through a whole different series of adaptations, that are NOT AT ALL seen with "normal" exercise.
> 
> - I can definitely see how this type of exercising can modify the metabolism in many different ways, from autophagy, to energy stores to minerals, and could definitely affect the body and the brain in more than just the "feel good" way.
> 
> Reading a while before starting this plan is of course mandatory. Read about proper food and hydration, warm up, stretch, etc.
> Start slow, don't try to go from 0-100 ... the LONG TERM GOAL should be to reach this training plan safely, not the FIRST DAY training.
> 
> I think it's definitely worth it, and safe if done properly.
> Looking forward to hearing more reports about it.


Sure, it won't kill you, but you'll probably feel like garbage for a good while after. I just don't see what that is supposed to permanently fix in the body? Seems like a completely arbitrary thing to do.



> and could definitely affect the body and the brain in more than just the "feel good" way.


Sure, in the short-term, but I don't see how the body won't restabilize itself after this massive bump in the road. I struggle to see how this would induce any permanent change.

Eh, by all means go for it, but I'd pay you good money if that actually cured something.


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## Broken

I think the point is that a light to moderate amount of exercise daily should theoretically reduce stress hormones and increase feel good hormones that increase well being and lower anxiety. As well as the fact that even walking has been shown to increase blood flow to the brain. I think alongside that if you are actively doing something with your body, again frequently but light exercise, you have to naturally be more aware of your body and where it is in your environment.

I have read a few recovery stories related to exercise, some were ridiculous amounts that I wouldnt recommend, but something like cycling or walking an hour or few a day could have benefit. The only issue is time, which really, I wouldnt have spare to do regularly


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## PerfectFifth

Broken said:


> but something like cycling or walking an hour or few a day could have benefit.


Sure, but that's not within the scope of this "experiment" anymore as that is pretty much what I bet some people here do already, including me. And that's great, I agree.

Somehow increasing this amount five-fold into insanity territory should cure DPDR, however? I struggle to see the logic there.


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## yosoydiego

PerfectFifth said:


> Somehow increasing this amount five-fold into insanity territory should cure DPDR, however? I struggle to see the logic there.


We all struggle with different things. Hell, even medicine struggles to explain most of the things that happen in our bodies. But, that doesn't mean that there is no logic behind.

As I said, I'm anti-crazy exercise regimes, as a norm. But negating the huge impact that they can have in our bodies, beyond any homeostasis capabilities, is negating the same reason why you (we) think that crazy exercise regime is bad...

In absence of knowledge, and faced with a proposed experiment, one must balance the risk-reward ratio. If the proposal was "amputate your right arm and your DP/DR disappears", I'd be side by side fighting to simply remove the post.

Now, when the proposal is "exercise a lot", which a huge amount of people do routinely and safely for no damn reason... hell, the risk-(possible)reward ratio seems fairly good.

Now, I'll provide you a solid possible logic on WHY this might work. I'm not saying this IS exactly the way, but the point is showing that the possibilities for such impacts are very much real, and even straight-forward I'd say.


Excess calcium in your blood leads to excess calcium in your brain, which can cause excitotoxicity , presenting symptoms among others: anxiety, depression, confusion, lethargy, and hallucinations.
With normal values of exercise, calcium levels are barely impacted (50mg/h).
With really heavy aerobic exercise, like marathon, calcium levels are dramatically affected.
Most recovery drinks, do NOT provide enough calcium, since it's assumed that diet should suffice.
As a result, a low level of calcium in blood might mobilize calcium stores, effectively reducing the effects of hypercalcemia in the brain.

Corollary: the above could ALSO explain why people on Ketogenic or Vegan diets have repeatedly reported benefits for DP/DR/etc, since those diets depending on personal taste an decisions, have big chances of being deficient in Calcium

Corollary 2: as I said, that was only one EXAMPLE of WHY it might work. Now, if that IS indeed the way it works... well, maybe just a low calcium diet would suffice. Someone not too inclined to heavy exercise could give that option a try.

2 cents









BTW, low level of calcium for a little while won't make your bones brittle... just don't keep it up for months or years.

Edit, add: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25747801


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## PerfectFifth

yosoydiego said:


> In absence of knowledge, and faced with a proposed experiment, one must balance the risk-reward ratio. If the proposal was "amputate your right arm and your DP/DR disappears", I'd be side by side fighting to simply remove the post.
> 
> Now, when the proposal is "exercise a lot", which a huge amount of people do routinely and safely for no damn reason... hell, the risk-(possible)reward ratio seems fairly good.


Yeah, I agree with this. That's why I said "by all means go for it" in one of my posts. I wasn't trying to say that you shouldn't even consider giving it a try (though admittedly my first post had that sort of a tone). I'm just skeptical, and that's about it.


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## Psyborg

my health anxiety is holding me back from working out otherwise I would work out often ....I used to train boxing and was often jogging/running too . I used to jog 4-8km regurlarly depending on mood . it is one of the best things you can do for your mental health


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## whatislife

Quick update: I’ve been doing 2 hours of cycling every single day for the past month and have almost reached full recovery. I’m noticing subtle improvements every single day. I believe withdraws from lamotrogine and Zoloft are making the recovery process take longer than it would otherwise. My DPDR went through the roof after getting off lamotrogine I didn’t know it was even possible to be so dissociated during 2 weeks of intense withdraws. If your dissociation doesn’t feel like you smoked dmt and blasted off into a different world be grateful it’s not as bad as it could be lol


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## James_80

whatislife said:


> Quick update: I've been doing 2 hours of cycling every single day for the past month and have almost reached full recovery. I'm noticing subtle improvements every single day. I believe withdraws from lamotrogine and Zoloft are making the recovery process take longer than it would otherwise. My DPDR went through the roof after getting off lamotrogine I didn't know it was even possible to be so dissociated during 2 weeks of intense withdraws. If your dissociation doesn't feel like you smoked dmt and blasted off into a different world be grateful it's not as bad as it could be lol


Are you using a stationary bike or a real bike just out of interest?


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## James_80

I've been doing well recently with a routine of exercising every day. Alternating jogging one day and working out the next. Really helps my mood but I know it takes long time for dp to respond so will see how it goes over the next month or so.


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