# DP and Homosexuality



## grant_r (Aug 25, 2004)

This topic is not like the other one. This one's about a common link between DP and being gay. Could homosexuality come in part from becoming DPed? I think there's a chance, but I'm not sure.

The reason I ask is that I don't know a time in my life that I haven't really not known one of the two, i.e. I've always known both, together.

Also, on the old forums, I know that someone made mention that their DP caused a rise in possibly otherwise latent homosexuality.

I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.

What are your views? Please keep this thread CLEAN and RELATING TO DP. If you want to whine about homosexuals, do that with your friends, or if on this forum at all, please go to "That's Life" and do it there. This is for positive, relevant, helpful DP related material only. Thanks.

-Grant with an "R"


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## grant_r (Aug 25, 2004)

This topic is not like the other one. This one's about a common link between DP and being gay. Could homosexuality come in part from becoming DPed? I think there's a chance, but I'm not sure.

The reason I ask is that I don't know a time in my life that I haven't really not known one of the two, i.e. I've always known both, together.

Also, on the old forums, I know that someone made mention that their DP caused a rise in possibly otherwise latent homosexuality.

I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.

What are your views? Please keep this thread CLEAN and RELATING TO DP. If you want to whine about homosexuals, do that with your friends, or if on this forum at all, please go to "That's Life" and do it there. This is for positive, relevant, helpful DP related material only. Thanks.

-Grant with an "R"


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

Bold move Grant. I applaud your courage. My response will be (relatively) short, and to the point....
Your question - "could homosexuality come in part from being DP?" seems to touch on the "nature vs. nurture" aspect of a person's sexual orientation. Are we born gay or straight, or is it a result of psychological forces or choice.
Certainly depersonalization changes an individual's perception of themselves. Having a fuzzy sense of who you are will naturally cause much questioning, doubting, etc. There is less black and white. That said - the self does continue to exist. Though those of us with DP find it difficult to remain in complete contact with ourSELF - that self does in fact remain. 
I believe a person's sexuality is an instrinsic part of who they are, their essence. Such a basic part of the individual, that it transcends DP. 
I don't believe DP and a person's sexual orientation are related.

In MY humble opinion - in the large majority of situations a person's sexuality is something they come into the world with. I realize there can be choices made by some, but for most it's in the hand they are dealt.

I will quietly slip out of this thread now, but will watch with interest as other responses come up.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

Bold move Grant. I applaud your courage. My response will be (relatively) short, and to the point....
Your question - "could homosexuality come in part from being DP?" seems to touch on the "nature vs. nurture" aspect of a person's sexual orientation. Are we born gay or straight, or is it a result of psychological forces or choice.
Certainly depersonalization changes an individual's perception of themselves. Having a fuzzy sense of who you are will naturally cause much questioning, doubting, etc. There is less black and white. That said - the self does continue to exist. Though those of us with DP find it difficult to remain in complete contact with ourSELF - that self does in fact remain. 
I believe a person's sexuality is an instrinsic part of who they are, their essence. Such a basic part of the individual, that it transcends DP. 
I don't believe DP and a person's sexual orientation are related.

In MY humble opinion - in the large majority of situations a person's sexuality is something they come into the world with. I realize there can be choices made by some, but for most it's in the hand they are dealt.

I will quietly slip out of this thread now, but will watch with interest as other responses come up.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Grant,

You said:


> I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.


I'd like to see any links you have on this topic.

My personal opinion is that this connection seems unlikely. I'd think one would hear more about this from the homosexual population. In other words if being gay and DP go together, it stands to reason that gays would report a higher incidence of DP.

From the most reputable sources I can think of -- Mt. Sinai, and the IoP in London -- I don't think they've ever seen that as a pattern. I could be wrong.

I can see how some theories might suggest that "sexual identity confusion" (there's something like that in the DSM, can't recall what it is) might be anxiety provoking for some, and hence perhaps cause DP.

I see both DP and homosexuality as givens. In other words I see more NATURE than NURTURE in them. However what percentage is still (and may always be) in debate.

I'd gather if one felt uncomfortable with being gay, there would be conflicted feelings and anxiety, etc.

I just don't think there's a connection, but I am FAR from an expert on this.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Grant,

You said:


> I also did a quick Google search, and from the looks of it, there's some link between homosexuality and dissociation.


I'd like to see any links you have on this topic.

My personal opinion is that this connection seems unlikely. I'd think one would hear more about this from the homosexual population. In other words if being gay and DP go together, it stands to reason that gays would report a higher incidence of DP.

From the most reputable sources I can think of -- Mt. Sinai, and the IoP in London -- I don't think they've ever seen that as a pattern. I could be wrong.

I can see how some theories might suggest that "sexual identity confusion" (there's something like that in the DSM, can't recall what it is) might be anxiety provoking for some, and hence perhaps cause DP.

I see both DP and homosexuality as givens. In other words I see more NATURE than NURTURE in them. However what percentage is still (and may always be) in debate.

I'd gather if one felt uncomfortable with being gay, there would be conflicted feelings and anxiety, etc.

I just don't think there's a connection, but I am FAR from an expert on this.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Also, I'm not saying it's easy to live with the lack of acceptance society dishes out. But it seems there are a good many gay people that do just fine. I have read however about teens who have become seriously depressed and taken their own life re: being gay. Especially if there is no family/social support of one's sexual orientation.

But again, you'd think statistics would reflect this, and I don't think they do, but again, I don't have enough knowledge of the topic to say anything with certainty.

I think whoever we are, gay/straight, we are also unique re: our mental health. I don't think there is a clear connection. But I could be wrong.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Also, I'm not saying it's easy to live with the lack of acceptance society dishes out. But it seems there are a good many gay people that do just fine. I have read however about teens who have become seriously depressed and taken their own life re: being gay. Especially if there is no family/social support of one's sexual orientation.

But again, you'd think statistics would reflect this, and I don't think they do, but again, I don't have enough knowledge of the topic to say anything with certainty.

I think whoever we are, gay/straight, we are also unique re: our mental health. I don't think there is a clear connection. But I could be wrong.

Best,
D :shock:


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## nemesis (Aug 10, 2004)

I doubt that there would be a direct correlation between homosexuality and DP, but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

If you were to take the nature standpoint in the 'nature versus nurture' debate, you would need show evidence that certain brain regions (most probably the Amygdala as it is a common centre of malfunction in those who suffer from dissasociative disorders and anxiety) show a common pattern across the majority of homosexuals. You may also need to prove that this could be a contributing factor behind the lifestyle choices people make along with the disposition for a neurological disorder.

A long shot at best!


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## nemesis (Aug 10, 2004)

I doubt that there would be a direct correlation between homosexuality and DP, but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

If you were to take the nature standpoint in the 'nature versus nurture' debate, you would need show evidence that certain brain regions (most probably the Amygdala as it is a common centre of malfunction in those who suffer from dissasociative disorders and anxiety) show a common pattern across the majority of homosexuals. You may also need to prove that this could be a contributing factor behind the lifestyle choices people make along with the disposition for a neurological disorder.

A long shot at best!


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

[quote name="nemesis"] but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

gotta agree with this


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

[quote name="nemesis"] but I do believe that there may be a higher occurrence of dissociative disorders in those who are under greater amounts of environmental and socio-economic stressors.

gotta agree with this


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

You've got it backwards, I believe.

Whether or not this is true, I'm sure the connection you're finding in the literature is not that dp causes homosexuality, but that when/if one finds oneself realizing homosexual traits in oneself, because of society and judgment and/or religious guilt-inducing stuff, the person may develop FEAR an/or ANGER about their own sexual preference.

That may, in turn, cause/create depersonalization as the mind's way of trying to deny Self, or who self is, etc...

Again, this may or may not be true, but if there is any correlation between the two, it's in this way.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

You've got it backwards, I believe.

Whether or not this is true, I'm sure the connection you're finding in the literature is not that dp causes homosexuality, but that when/if one finds oneself realizing homosexual traits in oneself, because of society and judgment and/or religious guilt-inducing stuff, the person may develop FEAR an/or ANGER about their own sexual preference.

That may, in turn, cause/create depersonalization as the mind's way of trying to deny Self, or who self is, etc...

Again, this may or may not be true, but if there is any correlation between the two, it's in this way.

Peace,
Janine


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## kenc127 (Aug 10, 2004)

I don't think so. I love women too much =)

Ken


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## kenc127 (Aug 10, 2004)

I don't think so. I love women too much =)

Ken


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I imagine that lots of people would find it very difficult to be gay in society. Being gay in such a predominately heterosexual society probably could create certain anxiety-based obsessions or thoughts, which in turn could eventually result in DP and thus perpetuate the cycle of obsessive thoughts (especially about DP, itself). It seems that something that profoundly shifts one's perception of the self (such as discovering or consciously accepting one is gay, or in my case, smoking marijuana) could be a factor, or one of many factors, leading to the anxiety-DP-obsession cycle.


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I imagine that lots of people would find it very difficult to be gay in society. Being gay in such a predominately heterosexual society probably could create certain anxiety-based obsessions or thoughts, which in turn could eventually result in DP and thus perpetuate the cycle of obsessive thoughts (especially about DP, itself). It seems that something that profoundly shifts one's perception of the self (such as discovering or consciously accepting one is gay, or in my case, smoking marijuana) could be a factor, or one of many factors, leading to the anxiety-DP-obsession cycle.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Grant,
I noticed something a tad misleading in doing a random Google of depersonalization+homosexuality. The word depersonalization is used in a the sociological sense, a real definition, of being "ignored", or cast off, thought of has "a statistic."

How can I explain this.... people often say that members of huge corporations are depersonalized, i.e. they are so lost in the enormity of the corporation it as if they are no longer people (de-person - alized).

I believe on the front of the forum here, James put up a dictionary definition of depersonalization that explains this.

Also, when I followed some links, they merely led me to diagnostic manuals that happen to have depersonalization (one disorder) and a definition of homosexuality, which is not considered a mental disorder in the DSM now. It used to be. I don't recall when they changed it. But it certainly isn't in the current one which came out in 1994, ten years ago.

Also, there are many societal traumas that affect individuals as well has whole groups ... predisposition would have to be a factor.

If someone is gay and has some problem with it ... as Janine noted ... then there could be conficts about it that cause anxiety and possibly DP. I don't subscribe to Unconscious conflicts, but I can see how some young men and women might be deeply scarred by being attacked for who they are if they are gay. But that doesn't guarantee DP.

Someone can be in a near death situation and NOT get DP. Survivors, in New York, of 9/11 ... some have gone on very well with life, as many survivors of serious disasters, etc. Children who are viciously abused mentally and physical can emerge without DP.

There has to be Predisposition + Stressor (of many types) = Anxiety, PTSD, or DP, etc.

I don't think there is a direct connection.

I was thinking of the Hell of AIDS which as brought so many gay people into treatment with physicians since the 1980s. I would think that among all of their patients they might have found a higher incidence of DP... not due to the AIDS necessarily, but perhaps as a complaint lodged by gays in particular. I don't think that has ever been encountered. Doctors in the 1980s saw a disproportionate number of gays due to AIDS, and now the numbers include women and children and non-gay men, drug users, transplant recipients etc.

I would think that the AIDS epidemic would be a study for those interested in psychological impact of the disease, and that has been examined. I may be totally wrong, but I don't think one can say that gays have a disproportionate presentation with DP.

Again, I am NO expert on the subject.

As Janine would say, there may be far more in the psychoanalytic literature discussing Unconscious conflicts which could cause various psychiatric symptoms.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Grant,
I noticed something a tad misleading in doing a random Google of depersonalization+homosexuality. The word depersonalization is used in a the sociological sense, a real definition, of being "ignored", or cast off, thought of has "a statistic."

How can I explain this.... people often say that members of huge corporations are depersonalized, i.e. they are so lost in the enormity of the corporation it as if they are no longer people (de-person - alized).

I believe on the front of the forum here, James put up a dictionary definition of depersonalization that explains this.

Also, when I followed some links, they merely led me to diagnostic manuals that happen to have depersonalization (one disorder) and a definition of homosexuality, which is not considered a mental disorder in the DSM now. It used to be. I don't recall when they changed it. But it certainly isn't in the current one which came out in 1994, ten years ago.

Also, there are many societal traumas that affect individuals as well has whole groups ... predisposition would have to be a factor.

If someone is gay and has some problem with it ... as Janine noted ... then there could be conficts about it that cause anxiety and possibly DP. I don't subscribe to Unconscious conflicts, but I can see how some young men and women might be deeply scarred by being attacked for who they are if they are gay. But that doesn't guarantee DP.

Someone can be in a near death situation and NOT get DP. Survivors, in New York, of 9/11 ... some have gone on very well with life, as many survivors of serious disasters, etc. Children who are viciously abused mentally and physical can emerge without DP.

There has to be Predisposition + Stressor (of many types) = Anxiety, PTSD, or DP, etc.

I don't think there is a direct connection.

I was thinking of the Hell of AIDS which as brought so many gay people into treatment with physicians since the 1980s. I would think that among all of their patients they might have found a higher incidence of DP... not due to the AIDS necessarily, but perhaps as a complaint lodged by gays in particular. I don't think that has ever been encountered. Doctors in the 1980s saw a disproportionate number of gays due to AIDS, and now the numbers include women and children and non-gay men, drug users, transplant recipients etc.

I would think that the AIDS epidemic would be a study for those interested in psychological impact of the disease, and that has been examined. I may be totally wrong, but I don't think one can say that gays have a disproportionate presentation with DP.

Again, I am NO expert on the subject.

As Janine would say, there may be far more in the psychoanalytic literature discussing Unconscious conflicts which could cause various psychiatric symptoms.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Yakkin' to myself again, but I just plugged homosexuality+dissociation and homosexuality+depersonalization and came up with nothing in PubMed which has lists of articles and abstracts on all medical literature.

Grant, I'd love to see some articles you've found re: DP and being gay.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Yakkin' to myself again, but I just plugged homosexuality+dissociation and homosexuality+depersonalization and came up with nothing in PubMed which has lists of articles and abstracts on all medical literature.

Grant, I'd love to see some articles you've found re: DP and being gay.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

Dreamer solved it. That makes perfect sense to me. Yes, the word "depersonalized" is used sometimes in corporate America to discribe groups of people that were once labeled "the disenfranchised" - outsiders, misfits, people who have no representation or voice because of prejudice. It is almost a "political" kind of meaning but used in human resource groups, employment issues, etc.

Ah, our reseaching hairball solves another caper.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2004)

Dreamer solved it. That makes perfect sense to me. Yes, the word "depersonalized" is used sometimes in corporate America to discribe groups of people that were once labeled "the disenfranchised" - outsiders, misfits, people who have no representation or voice because of prejudice. It is almost a "political" kind of meaning but used in human resource groups, employment issues, etc.

Ah, our reseaching hairball solves another caper.


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## Andy T (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm not sure about DP and homosexuality per se, but depression and unresolved conflicts in sexuality go hand in hand. Been there, got the T-shirt.

If only the net had existed in my teen years (late 70s/early 80s), I could have easily discovered I wasn't alone in my confused feelings at such a critical time in my life....


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## Andy T (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm not sure about DP and homosexuality per se, but depression and unresolved conflicts in sexuality go hand in hand. Been there, got the T-shirt.

If only the net had existed in my teen years (late 70s/early 80s), I could have easily discovered I wasn't alone in my confused feelings at such a critical time in my life....


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Andy T said:


> If only the net had existed in my teen years (late 70s/early 80s), I could have easily discovered I wasn't alone in my confused feelings at such a critical time in my life....


I know. Same here. I'm sure I wouldn't have suffered so many years if the Internet had existed back then. It makes such a difference to know you're not alone.


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Andy T said:


> If only the net had existed in my teen years (late 70s/early 80s), I could have easily discovered I wasn't alone in my confused feelings at such a critical time in my life....


I know. Same here. I'm sure I wouldn't have suffered so many years if the Internet had existed back then. It makes such a difference to know you're not alone.


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## grant_r (Aug 25, 2004)

Well, okay then. Perhaps I was a little too bold in saying that. I think what I meant was that it may cause confusion in who you are and what you're feeling. Plus, had there been homoerotic tendencies before DP, esp. subconsciously, this could surface much more easily, with one being confused and searching for who they are. But I know that there was some member who noticed that the worse their DP got, the stronger the homosexuality.

Dreamer, I think you're right, now that I look at it. My Google searches WERE returning things about de-person-alization, and not OUR kind of DP.

Janine, sorry to say, but you're wrong. I meant what I said when I said that DP causes HS, not the other way around.

-Grant with an "ARRR"


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## grant_r (Aug 25, 2004)

Well, okay then. Perhaps I was a little too bold in saying that. I think what I meant was that it may cause confusion in who you are and what you're feeling. Plus, had there been homoerotic tendencies before DP, esp. subconsciously, this could surface much more easily, with one being confused and searching for who they are. But I know that there was some member who noticed that the worse their DP got, the stronger the homosexuality.

Dreamer, I think you're right, now that I look at it. My Google searches WERE returning things about de-person-alization, and not OUR kind of DP.

Janine, sorry to say, but you're wrong. I meant what I said when I said that DP causes HS, not the other way around.

-Grant with an "ARRR"


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Grant,
OK, now this has me confused. (I am frequently confused however, so don't take it personally) ...



> I meant what I said when I said that DP causes HS, not the other way around.


This doesn't fit my theory at all. If DP causes homosexuality ... then there would be a disproportionate representation of homosexuals here on the board. To my best understanding, damn wish I could call up statistics ASAP, and I can't.... the % of gays in the world is pretty much equal... 2-5% of the population? And interestingly enough that percentage seems to stay constant worldwide.

But we also know that DP, or at least it seems this is true, is a symptom which COMES WITH many mental disorders from schizophrenia to OCD to bi-polar to panic to depression to anxiety disorders...

If that were true, there would be a higher incidence of gays who are mentally ill. Or conversely the mentally ill would be overrepresented by gays ... which isn't the case.

I can see how conflicted feelings that haven't been addressed could excacerbate one's feelings about being gay and hence cause anxiety, and hence cause DP perhaps.

If we agree that one is born gay, and as with all children, sexual orientation grows as the child grows and comes to fruition in early adolescense, well yes, problems can arise during the early teen years/college years. Guilt, confusion, shame, etc. But someone who has DP from early on, such as myself ... well using myself as only one example (which isn't very scientific), I never once questioned my sexual orientation. From as far back as I can recall I was a girl, I enjoyed being a girl. I had crushes on boys, never on girls, and on male movie stars, and boys, and male teachers, etc.

But I can't remember a time when I wasn't DPd. I mean it came and went in various ways, along with my depression and anxiety, but it never led to "opening a door" to homosexuality.

I hope this makes sense. As another example, my oldest girlfriend (we were friends as babies -- not much to say then) -- she is gay. I never knew until we were adults, but she has no DP. Doens't understand what it is.

I find the topic fascinating. I love trying to understand how we become who we are. But I'm pretty firm on my belief that gayness is something one is born with. Sexual orientation is something one is born with. The predisposition to DP SOME are born with, gay or straight.

So.... I don't see the correlation.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Grant,
OK, now this has me confused. (I am frequently confused however, so don't take it personally) ...



> I meant what I said when I said that DP causes HS, not the other way around.


This doesn't fit my theory at all. If DP causes homosexuality ... then there would be a disproportionate representation of homosexuals here on the board. To my best understanding, damn wish I could call up statistics ASAP, and I can't.... the % of gays in the world is pretty much equal... 2-5% of the population? And interestingly enough that percentage seems to stay constant worldwide.

But we also know that DP, or at least it seems this is true, is a symptom which COMES WITH many mental disorders from schizophrenia to OCD to bi-polar to panic to depression to anxiety disorders...

If that were true, there would be a higher incidence of gays who are mentally ill. Or conversely the mentally ill would be overrepresented by gays ... which isn't the case.

I can see how conflicted feelings that haven't been addressed could excacerbate one's feelings about being gay and hence cause anxiety, and hence cause DP perhaps.

If we agree that one is born gay, and as with all children, sexual orientation grows as the child grows and comes to fruition in early adolescense, well yes, problems can arise during the early teen years/college years. Guilt, confusion, shame, etc. But someone who has DP from early on, such as myself ... well using myself as only one example (which isn't very scientific), I never once questioned my sexual orientation. From as far back as I can recall I was a girl, I enjoyed being a girl. I had crushes on boys, never on girls, and on male movie stars, and boys, and male teachers, etc.

But I can't remember a time when I wasn't DPd. I mean it came and went in various ways, along with my depression and anxiety, but it never led to "opening a door" to homosexuality.

I hope this makes sense. As another example, my oldest girlfriend (we were friends as babies -- not much to say then) -- she is gay. I never knew until we were adults, but she has no DP. Doens't understand what it is.

I find the topic fascinating. I love trying to understand how we become who we are. But I'm pretty firm on my belief that gayness is something one is born with. Sexual orientation is something one is born with. The predisposition to DP SOME are born with, gay or straight.

So.... I don't see the correlation.

Best,
D :shock:


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Fairly soon after I dp'd at the age of 15 I remember having very strong sexual feelings and they were very directed toward the opposite sex


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Fairly soon after I dp'd at the age of 15 I remember having very strong sexual feelings and they were very directed toward the opposite sex


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

hi grant

i dont know if this is related or nt but when i first had dp(over 10 years ago)i was living with a boyfriend of about 3 years. after about 7 months when the dp was lifting i started a relationship with a female. we lived together for 4 years. the relationship was not a very sexual one but she made me feel safe and secure. we had a wonderful, emotionally supportive relationship. anyway before and since i have only had relationships with males. i dont know if this has anything to do with dp but i think being in such a fragile mental state i needed a loving relationship without the pressure of sex which,in my experience, tends to accompany relationships with males to some degree.


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

hi grant

i dont know if this is related or nt but when i first had dp(over 10 years ago)i was living with a boyfriend of about 3 years. after about 7 months when the dp was lifting i started a relationship with a female. we lived together for 4 years. the relationship was not a very sexual one but she made me feel safe and secure. we had a wonderful, emotionally supportive relationship. anyway before and since i have only had relationships with males. i dont know if this has anything to do with dp but i think being in such a fragile mental state i needed a loving relationship without the pressure of sex which,in my experience, tends to accompany relationships with males to some degree.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Another thing which I keep hammering and yammering on about is...

Many/most? mental illnesses seem to appear during puberty, adolescece, young adulthood, when hormones are raging.

I could say I believe in a connection with hormonal shifts and the ONSET of a predisposition to mental illness. say schizophrenia often manifests itself around age 15-25 (give or take), bi-polar appears before age 30... or 30 seems to be a "safe" time after which major mental illness is less likely to manifest itself.

We also know hormones affect women and exacerbation of mental illness. Exacerbation during PMS, MS, pregnancy, post-partum, menopause.

Perhaps it is the culmination of the predisposition coming alive at an age when sexuality is at the forefront of a young person's life? Adolescense is a rough time for everyone, and the brains of kids go through another growth/change spurt at this time.

That's my take on it. Don't quote me on any age ranges, here, or check for spelling, LOL.

I still believe being gay (in most cases) is a something one is born with. I don't think it is even a predisposition. You are born either gay or straight or have a specific sexual orientation.

DP, you have to have the predisposition with it. Don't think that many are born with it ... though some here say they have been, but they would be a minority I believe.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Another thing which I keep hammering and yammering on about is...

Many/most? mental illnesses seem to appear during puberty, adolescece, young adulthood, when hormones are raging.

I could say I believe in a connection with hormonal shifts and the ONSET of a predisposition to mental illness. say schizophrenia often manifests itself around age 15-25 (give or take), bi-polar appears before age 30... or 30 seems to be a "safe" time after which major mental illness is less likely to manifest itself.

We also know hormones affect women and exacerbation of mental illness. Exacerbation during PMS, MS, pregnancy, post-partum, menopause.

Perhaps it is the culmination of the predisposition coming alive at an age when sexuality is at the forefront of a young person's life? Adolescense is a rough time for everyone, and the brains of kids go through another growth/change spurt at this time.

That's my take on it. Don't quote me on any age ranges, here, or check for spelling, LOL.

I still believe being gay (in most cases) is a something one is born with. I don't think it is even a predisposition. You are born either gay or straight or have a specific sexual orientation.

DP, you have to have the predisposition with it. Don't think that many are born with it ... though some here say they have been, but they would be a minority I believe.

Best,
D :shock:


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

Yes, along with Wendy, I'd be interested in your ideas, too.

And Grant, I did realize that was your original intent - I didn't mean to say that you had accidentally gotten it backwards, just that I didn't agree with your position (although am very interested in hearing your thoughts)

Also, IMPORTANT: I am NOT saying that homosexuality is any kind of illness, NOOOOO.... I did not mean to imply that it "caused" dp because being homosexual is pathological or anything. My point is only this: ALL kinds of sexual issues are "hot" for people - anytime we have sexual desires, thoughts, etc. we might activate all kinds of defenses. Add to that the horrible Social Discrimmination against homosexuality and it is often the case that someone who is trying to come to terms with his/her own homosexuality might feel terribly vulnerable - in a society that may HATE him/her for sexual feelings.

Just wanted to clarify.

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2004)

Yes, along with Wendy, I'd be interested in your ideas, too.

And Grant, I did realize that was your original intent - I didn't mean to say that you had accidentally gotten it backwards, just that I didn't agree with your position (although am very interested in hearing your thoughts)

Also, IMPORTANT: I am NOT saying that homosexuality is any kind of illness, NOOOOO.... I did not mean to imply that it "caused" dp because being homosexual is pathological or anything. My point is only this: ALL kinds of sexual issues are "hot" for people - anytime we have sexual desires, thoughts, etc. we might activate all kinds of defenses. Add to that the horrible Social Discrimmination against homosexuality and it is often the case that someone who is trying to come to terms with his/her own homosexuality might feel terribly vulnerable - in a society that may HATE him/her for sexual feelings.

Just wanted to clarify.

Peace,
J


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## grant_r (Aug 25, 2004)

All right, again, I did not mean to confuse. The way I'm saying things is quite obviously not clear.

What I meant to say was that DP *MAY* be the cause of homosexuality, *NOT* that it does all the time. Certainly not. That was a very vague statement on my part. I was simply disagreeing with Janine in her saying that homosexuality could cause DP, because she didn't think that DP caused homosexuality. It was simply my way of naming one option of the two, and I was reffering directly to what she said without quoting it, as I now do:


Ms. Baker said:


> You've got it backwards, I believe.
> 
> Whether or not this is true, I'm sure the connection you're finding in the literature is not that dp causes homosexuality, but that when/if one finds oneself realizing homosexual traits in oneself, because of society and judgment and/or religious guilt-inducing stuff, the person may develop FEAR an/or ANGER about their own sexual preference.
> 
> ...


I do agree, though, that homosexuality may cause DP, but that was not what I was saying at that time, thus I was contradicting Ms. Baker. And I also do not believe that homosexuality is an illness.

Sorry for all the confusion and ambiguity. There is possibly some even now as I'm explaining previous complications.

-Grant with an "R"


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## grant_r (Aug 25, 2004)

All right, again, I did not mean to confuse. The way I'm saying things is quite obviously not clear.

What I meant to say was that DP *MAY* be the cause of homosexuality, *NOT* that it does all the time. Certainly not. That was a very vague statement on my part. I was simply disagreeing with Janine in her saying that homosexuality could cause DP, because she didn't think that DP caused homosexuality. It was simply my way of naming one option of the two, and I was reffering directly to what she said without quoting it, as I now do:


Ms. Baker said:


> You've got it backwards, I believe.
> 
> Whether or not this is true, I'm sure the connection you're finding in the literature is not that dp causes homosexuality, but that when/if one finds oneself realizing homosexual traits in oneself, because of society and judgment and/or religious guilt-inducing stuff, the person may develop FEAR an/or ANGER about their own sexual preference.
> 
> ...


I do agree, though, that homosexuality may cause DP, but that was not what I was saying at that time, thus I was contradicting Ms. Baker. And I also do not believe that homosexuality is an illness.

Sorry for all the confusion and ambiguity. There is possibly some even now as I'm explaining previous complications.

-Grant with an "R"


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

OK, now after a week of exhaustion, I can't sleep, and hence am up worrying about this, LOL.



> Sorry for all the confusion and ambiguity. There is possibly some even now as I'm explaining previous complications.


LOLOLOLOLOL - very confused.
Yes, could you explain? :shock: 
Best,
Your 2nd Mum


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

OK, now after a week of exhaustion, I can't sleep, and hence am up worrying about this, LOL.



> Sorry for all the confusion and ambiguity. There is possibly some even now as I'm explaining previous complications.


LOLOLOLOLOL - very confused.
Yes, could you explain? :shock: 
Best,
Your 2nd Mum


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

DP causes Homosexuality ?

  :lol:

I thought it was benzo's myself.


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