# CHildhood Trauma and DP



## Daphne (Apr 16, 2010)

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/158/7/1027
Why shouln't this mean, one can be free from DP by overcoming the traumatic experiences???


----------



## Guest (Apr 17, 2010)

[quote name='Daphne' date='16 April 2010 - 10:36 AM' timestamp='1271428574' post='187164']
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/158/7/1027
Why shouln't this mean, one can be free from DP by overcoming the traumatic experiences???
[/quote]

I've had DP/DR most of my life and I'm 51 and also came from an abusive family. Note that this article was written in 2001 ... 9 years ago. Since then, more research has revealed difference in the brains of individuals with DP/DR ... and those are not clearly understood. My sense is for myself I had a PREDISPOSITION to dissociate, be anxious, be depressed. My abuse only made things worse. Chronic threats, mistreatment can cause chronic anxiety, fight/flight, vigilence which in and of itself can alter the way the brain works -- the way hormones work with the brain, and it has been questioned if abuse can affect the size of certain parts of the brain such as the hippocampus.

The brain is malleable ... it changes under stress ... and with work it can be "reconditioned" ... we know this with stroke patients, or with individuals who lose sight and their hearing becomes more acute and they can compensate for the loss of sight.

I would debate the genetic not being true. Many here have mentioned other family members with DP/DR. Also both of my parents had mental illness and I seem to have inherited some of my parents' anxiety and depression.

This nature/nurture thing will always be debated.

I would say, psychological issues can be dealt with ... I have done that over the course of my life, in therapy. But medication has been most effective on my SYMPTOMS. It depends on when intervention occurs. I think it came to late for me and in a time when psychiatry was very different from the way it is now. First psychiatrist I saw was in 1975 ... he knew what DP/DR was. Recent medical residents don't even know what it is? Neurologists DO.

Tiresome.

I think getting better from abuse is on a case by case basis. Also, there is also the concept of PTSD. Why do some soldiers not appear to ever get it, while others do? Why do some come back from war and commit suicide and others don't. These individuals are always changed, but not all are severely damaged by their experience ... but there is obviously a predisposition to have PTSD which is triggered by the horrors of war. If said individuals never went to war, perhaps the brain changes observed would never occur. Perhaps those of us with a predisposition to DP/DR would never have developed it if we weren't abused. I don't know. To me, it has been at times so horrible I can't see it as anything but a severe neurological problem.

Also, there are individuals here on the board who have DP/DR and no childhood abuse, but came from healthy families. This is true of all mental illnesses. One can have both ... mental illness and abuse, or simply have mental illness. Some are abused and DON'T have DP/DR. Why?

The answer is far from clear.

Cheers,
D


----------



## isthisreallife (Mar 20, 2010)

Thats how I see it, that when I deal with my childhood trauma the DP will go away. What else could make it go away since that is what started it for me? I think coming to terms with it for me instead of feeling like it was unreal or not me, will bring me down to earth. Thats just me though, I also read a study that tested the efficacy of ptsd treatment in people with and without DP/DR symptoms, and it was found that not only did it not reduce treatment outcome for ptsd compared to normal people, but also people recieving treatment for ptsd that had DP/DR, experienced a decrease in their DP/DR!

That was promising to me, as I thought how can I talk about things if I feel completely numb and detached from them, but apparently it doesn't matter! You respond to treatment the same!


----------



## Rebekah (May 16, 2009)

Dreamer, that was exactly the understanding I have come to about causes of DP. As far as the abuse goes, I found another compelling reason why certain people who claim not to have been abused personally might depersonalize. It could be that they are being "abused" by society as explained in Feeling Unreal on page 180 by Guralnik (bottom of page). I suffered from both. Some DP sufferers may have a good family life and find societal factors in which they live to be offensive to their sensibilities and so need to dissociate. There is ugliness in the world, as we all know. Guralnik claims that "The language, traditions, legal and other systems of society all work to create and dictate the ways in which we understand ourselves. When that becomes too offensive to certain parts of one's personhood, it can create problems for that individual. '"You may try to continue to make your way, you may submit, or you may have some sort of existential crisis," Guralnik says.' I found this to add to my inability to completely ovecome the DP. I want our world to be a utopia and for other's to treat each other kindly, so I'm always offended by the train-wreck man has made of our existence. And also, some DPer's are simply not aware that they are being abused by someone else--the abuse may be so subtle that they don't even recognize the interaction as being abusive, but subconscious and nerves do, and so flight into DP occurs.


----------



## Daphne (Apr 16, 2010)

I agree! Abuse often is not that obvious! For example "emotional incest" is a thing, that is without a good therapist difficult to discover, as victims tend to idealize the abusing parent. And also I think, that knowing to be abused and really overcoming it by detecting the ral feelings about it are two different ways. Many also tend to downplay their traumas because they don't dare to blame their parents. I also did this for a long time.


----------



## Rebekah (May 16, 2009)

Daphne said:


> I agree! Abuse often is not that obvious! For example "emotional incest" is a thing, that is without a good therapist difficult to discover, as victims tend to idealize the abusing parent. And also I think, that knowing to be abused and really overcoming it by detecting the ral feelings about it are two different ways. Many also tend to downplay their traumas because they don't dare to blame their parents. I also did this for a long time.


Exactly. . .well put.


----------



## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

I always tell psychologists and doctors that I wasn't abused, even though I was. I think I told like one psychologist I was abused by someone, but not all the detail and how I get verbal abuse and stuff. I don't even know what they do if they find out someone in your family abused you, do they tell the police or get a social worker invovled? I think it's supposed to be kept secret but what do I know. Plus, I'm no angel and did some very very bad stuff myself...


----------



## SixStringRoad (Sep 4, 2010)

plz i need help.

about 2 years ago i had experienced the death of my grandfather whom which i loved very much. and around 2 or 3 months later i was still feeling down about it, and while walking home from school, some dude with a knife tried stabbing my friend and i told him to get his hands off of him, then he went after me and kept swaying his knife to my neck with my hands trying to stop his wrists from swinging. It still bothers me today because I cant afford therapy or anything like that, and been to a counselor which didnt know shit about anything, but is there any advice on how to face this event?


----------



## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

SixStringRoad said:


> plz i need help.
> 
> about 2 years ago i had experienced the death of my grandfather whom which i loved very much. and around 2 or 3 months later i was still feeling down about it, and while walking home from school, some dude with a knife tried stabbing my friend and i told him to get his hands off of him, then he went after me and kept swaying his knife to my neck with my hands trying to stop his wrists from swinging. It still bothers me today because I cant afford therapy or anything like that, and been to a counselor which didnt know shit about anything, but is there any advice on how to face this event?


I would look into therapy. Are you in education? They often have stuff setup for free if you're a student. Have a think about how much money you spend and see where you can make savings. You may be able to afford a session every couple of weeks. Have a look around for therapists who deal with people who have a low income, I'm sure you will be surprised what you can find.

I would say overall the therapy option is the best direction to go. Until then I would search google for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). There is a lot of information out there and some forums you can join with people who have been suffering from trauma related problems for years who will have good resources for you to go to. Also they may be of help to talk to over skype or msn until you find a therapist.


----------



## MobiusX (Jul 27, 2010)

What does it even mean to overcome the trauma? I don't get it. I never did. I don't know what these counselors want me to do to recovery? To forget it ever happened? To accept it? I will always have the memories and emotions, there is nothing that can be done to satisfy me from what happened. It's the reason why I am the way I am. It's the reason why I have DP & DR, why I have SA, and other problems. Only way I would be satisfied if it never happened, that's all. So this idea of recovering doesn't apply to me, I REFUSE to be happy because of it. Why do they even call us survivors? All that means is that I wasn't killed during the process of the abuse-- That's all. And it really does matter how long the abuse lasted and what it included, if I say I was sexually abused, I don't want people to get it confused with just molestation because that is not even half of what it included.


----------



## El1 (Oct 18, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/158/7/1027
> Why shouln't this mean, one can be free from DP by overcoming the traumatic experiences???


I've had DP/DR most of my life and I'm 51 and also came from an abusive family. Note that this article was written in 2001 ... 9 years ago. Since then, more research has revealed difference in the brains of individuals with DP/DR ... and those are not clearly understood. My sense is for myself I had a PREDISPOSITION to dissociate, be anxious, be depressed. My abuse only made things worse. Chronic threats, mistreatment can cause chronic anxiety, fight/flight, vigilence which in and of itself can alter the way the brain works -- the way hormones work with the brain, and it has been questioned if abuse can affect the size of certain parts of the brain such as the hippocampus.

The brain is malleable ... it changes under stress ... and with work it can be "reconditioned" ... we know this with stroke patients, or with individuals who lose sight and their hearing becomes more acute and they can compensate for the loss of sight.

I would debate the genetic not being true. Many here have mentioned other family members with DP/DR. Also both of my parents had mental illness and I seem to have inherited some of my parents' anxiety and depression.

This nature/nurture thing will always be debated.

I would say, psychological issues can be dealt with ... I have done that over the course of my life, in therapy. But medication has been most effective on my SYMPTOMS. It depends on when intervention occurs. I think it came to late for me and in a time when psychiatry was very different from the way it is now. First psychiatrist I saw was in 1975 ... he knew what DP/DR was. Recent medical residents don't even know what it is? Neurologists DO.

Tiresome.

I think getting better from abuse is on a case by case basis. Also, there is also the concept of PTSD. Why do some soldiers not appear to ever get it, while others do? Why do some come back from war and commit suicide and others don't. These individuals are always changed, but not all are severely damaged by their experience ... but there is obviously a predisposition to have PTSD which is triggered by the horrors of war. If said individuals never went to war, perhaps the brain changes observed would never occur. Perhaps those of us with a predisposition to DP/DR would never have developed it if we weren't abused. I don't know. To me, it has been at times so horrible I can't see it as anything but a severe neurological problem.

Also, there are individuals here on the board who have DP/DR and no childhood abuse, but came from healthy families. This is true of all mental illnesses. One can have both ... mental illness and abuse, or simply have mental illness. Some are abused and DON'T have DP/DR. Why?

The answer is far from clear.

Cheers,
D
[/font][/size]
[/quote]


----------



## Rebekah (May 16, 2009)

In first grade, my teacher wrote (for my parents) on my report card for the fourth period, "I sincerely hope Becky can 'relax' next year. I have enjoyed her this year. Have a nice summer vacation. Let's hope with a little more growing, her blank (underlined by her) days disappear." Wow. . . so in first grade, my teacher noticed I was anxious and dissociated. But, the other thing I remember about first grade was that this teacher was not too nice, she felt cold and severe to me then when I think back. In later school years where I felt warmth and love from the teachers, they didn't make any of those remarks, but more positive comments. I am a sensitive person and react very negatively to rough and harsh individuals. I see my genetic make-up present itself at this very young age of 7. I continue as an adult to respond anxiously and dissociate around persons who are rough and abusive, and relax and connect with those I trust.


----------



## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

Daphne said:


> http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/158/7/1027
> Why shouln't this mean, one can be free from DP by overcoming the traumatic experiences???


no
Once the damage was done, it become very complicated to go back, nearly impossible, it's not that simple. Not only the psychi (mind) is affected but the oganic matter (brain and body).


----------



## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

MobiusX said:


> What does it even mean to overcome the trauma? I don't get it. I never did. I don't know what these counselors want me to do to recovery? To forget it ever happened? To accept it? I will always have the memories and emotions, there is nothing that can be done to satisfy me from what happened. It's the reason why I am the way I am. It's the reason why I have DP & DR, why I have SA, and other problems. Only way I would be satisfied if it never happened, that's all. So this idea of recovering doesn't apply to me, I REFUSE to be happy because of it. Why do they even call us survivors? All that means is that I wasn't killed during the process of the abuse-- That's all. And it really does matter how long the abuse lasted and what it included, if I say I was sexually abused, I don't want people to get it confused with just molestation because that is not even half of what it included.


Abuse defined who I am. That will not change. But by remaining caged, they still abuse, hurt, win! - even if they are dead.

Recovery doesn't mean forget. It doesn't mean get satisfaction. It doesn't even mean recover. It means freedom. It means it no longer has to define what you will be. It means choice. It means connection. The progression is like a haze that gets clear &#8230; then becomes a picture &#8230; then develops color &#8230; then movement &#8230; then who knows.

Survivor means just that - you didn't die or become comatose.

*that is not even half of what it included* I hear you. Depersonalized is too mild a word. Sex - what a joke if that was all. Dehumanized! They need a DP scale like the hospital pain scale with ten smiley faces - only where is #11 with the chainsaw hacking off limbs?


----------



## brayanfraser (Dec 1, 2010)

In the sample of non-patients, we also found significant correlations between emotional abuse on one hand and severity of PD (positive) and attention(negative) on the other. We conclude that the initial results argue for a relationship between the DP and the ways the antithesis of attention and thus encourage future studies on the care interventions AD and the second with the potential to impact on developmental factors contribute to mindfulness.


----------



## Rebekah (May 16, 2009)

I was emotionally abused and neglected all my life by my parents and now as an adult I'm still struggling with the anxiety/DP from that--precipitated by weed. I'm reading a book now called "Trauma and Recovery: The aftermath of violence--from domestic abuse to political terror" by Judith Herman, M.D. and it really delves into this issue of abuse and how to recover. From the start this author is arguing for, and I believe the research shows, that you need to talk about your abuse and then integrate it into your conscious awareness. I've had counseling and it definitely does help. I'm mostly recovered and feel good most days, but have backslider days when my subconscious memories get mixed up with today's reality. Projecting onto other people that they are (more) abusive then they truly are, etc. and feeling powerless are what I am struggling with. This book is deeper psychology and makes alot of sense. It's considered a classic in the psychology field.


----------

