# A form of amnesia?



## Guest (Mar 2, 2006)

Has anybody given any thought or done any research on a possible connection to some form of amnesia?


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## The Wraith (Feb 2, 2006)

I don't know much about amnesia, so I couldn't say. I think it has some of the symptoms. But with me, I remember too much. I have too much of a grasp on myself, but feel completley disconnected from it at the same time. Like I am outside of my body watching life on a film projector. Only time isn't linear it is just memories and thoughts and the present all in one confusing tryptich. I know that dp/dr is desrcibed as losing a part of yourself. I think of it more as an expansion of the self that just seems to overwhelm people and thus they grow to such a point where they can focus anymore. I don't know if I'd call it amnesia though.


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

I don't know I feel all the memories from my past very vivid but EXTREMELY difficult to make new ones.
Like the 2 personas cannot connect to each other(the dp free and the dped one )


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## moonparachutes (Feb 15, 2006)

eclecticsheep said:


> I don't know I feel all the memories from my past very vivid but EXTREMELY difficult to make new ones.
> Like the 2 personas cannot connect to each other(the dp free and the dped one )


I can totally relate to that! It's like I'm trapped in all my old memories and everything I see now is just a repeat of what I've seen before and I never have any new memories.


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

exactly!! do u feel there is a period when u stopped having new memories?


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I don't know much about amnesia, so I couldn't say. I think it has some of the symptoms. But with me, I remember too much. I have too much of a grasp on myself, but feel completley disconnected from it at the same time. Like I am outside of my body watching life on a film projector. Only time isn't linear it is just memories and thoughts and the present all in one confusing tryptich. I know that dp/dr is desrcibed as losing a part of yourself. I think of it more as an expansion of the self that just seems to overwhelm people and thus they grow to such a point where they can focus anymore. I don't know if I'd call it amnesia though.


That makes a lot of sense.

I think that I can remember everything but it is obtaining those memories that causes the problem. I often have a hard time remembering something but then later in life that memory will just pop up out of nowhere. My thoughts are all over the place in my brain and so is my memory of time, I am continuously scanning my thoughts and sorting out my memorys in my head to try and make sense of reality. It's not my memory thats messed up but it's my ability to sort my memorys and focus on what I should be focusing on.


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

i do that scanning thing a lot too
i'm not sure if it helps tho


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > I don't know much about amnesia, so I couldn't say. I think it has some of the symptoms. But with me, I remember too much. I have too much of a grasp on myself, but feel completley disconnected from it at the same time. Like I am outside of my body watching life on a film projector. Only time isn't linear it is just memories and thoughts and the present all in one confusing tryptich. I know that dp/dr is desrcibed as losing a part of yourself. I think of it more as an expansion of the self that just seems to overwhelm people and thus they grow to such a point where they can focus anymore. I don't know if I'd call it amnesia though.
> 
> 
> That makes a lot of sense.
> ...


I agree about the sort and focus. But have you noticed that if you don't 'effort' to remember or 'effort' to 'be' a 'somebody' and just move through your day without 'mental' activity that whatever needs to come to mind at the moment, comes without effort? And it doesn't seem to come to your mind in the same way as if you're 'trying' to remember something. It just rises up?


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I agree about the sort and focus. But have you noticed that if you don't 'effort' to remember or 'effort' to 'be' a 'somebody' and just move through your day without 'mental' activity that whatever needs to come to mind at the moment, comes without effort? And it doesn't seem to come to your mind in the same way as if you're 'trying' to remember something. It just rises up?


Yes that's why sometimes my memories just pop up out of nowhere.
But my memories are scattered and I think that if I did not put some effort into my existance and sainity than I would just become lethargic or something, I can feel it just on the horizon. If I stoped my efferts then I may end up schizo or something, at least thats how I feel.

The real truth is probably that if I could just "let go" then I would just become normal again  . Letting go is very hard though when you feel yourself disappearing.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

I think you have to make a difference between a bad functioning memory and real amnesia. Amnesia only comes with DID (if we're talking about dissociation that is).


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> Yes that's why sometimes my memories just pop up out of nowhere.
> But my memories are scattered and I think that if I did not put some effort into my existance and sainity than I would just become lethargic or something, I can feel it just on the horizon. If I stoped my efferts then I may end up schizo or something, at least thats how I feel.
> 
> The real truth is probably that if I could just "let go" then I would just become normal again  . Letting go is very hard though when you feel yourself disappearing.


Yes, I know what you mean in your first paragraph. And I think the first paragraph relates to your second one in the 'disappearing' department. I have that sensation sometimes that if I didn't 'effort' then I would fade away. 'Lethargy' might actually be a symptom of the desire to fade away from the way you're having to do life. On the other hand, maybe it's the first stages of 'letting go' so that this 'you' can disappear and maybe 'somebody', like the Phoenix, would rise from those ashes. My, my, I've slipped into some sort of poetic fugue. :lol:

I know what all of that is like and in reading your post it helped me see the differences in days that I feel lethargic and days that I feel like I would disappear if I didn't keep moving. Funny thing about that. Years and years ago I was dating a guy. First time I had dated in over 15 years. Long story short, I would have panic attacks that if I stopped thinking about him, HE would disappear. Isn't that odd? All of this is so strange and mysterious.

Well, I'll stop here. If I try to say anything else it will be 'efforting' and may just be me trying to 'participate' when I'm not really here.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Well, I'll stop here. If I try to say anything else it will be 'efforting' and may just be me trying to 'participate' when I'm not really here.


Thats funny that you said that because sometimes I feel like I am 'efforting' and thats why I sometimes say to much when I shouldn't say anything at all. Every time I talk to a girl my age she always thinks I am desprate or something because of my 'efforting' the conversation, what she don't know is that I would actually rather just be left alone but only participate in the conversation to make her feel more comfertable around me anyway (it never works). This even spills over into the area of guys and many guys have though that I am gay just because of my 'efforting' all the time. Even my own brother has suspisions that I might be gay because of this. Sometimes I feel like punching Gay people in the face when they tell me that I have that twinkle in my eye because I know that the twinkle is really just DP/DR and they make me want to unleash all my pent up rage about DP/DR on them for misreading what I really am. People think I am weak, desprate, gay, retarded, insain and even racest along with many other things but nobody would even imagen what is really going through my mind, if they did they would be scared to death of me but also feel very sorry for me because of my pain.
Gosh I am rambling now, I don't even know what I was talking about. 
How did a discusion about memory end up in my feelings about girls and Gay people?

I am sorry, I just wish that everyone would stop labeling me and trying to figure me out, because I am wayyyyy to complex of a person to be labled except maybe the lable of DP/DR anyway. And no normal person could EVER figure out what is going on in my dam head. I can't even bearly keep tract of who the hell I am, so why do other people try to figure me out and label me all the dam time?

Sorry for going so far off topic.

My problem is that either I over do things and 'effort' it, or I just never say anything at all. What the hell can I possibly do  ???
'effort' or 'lethargic' I guess are my only options and they both suck!
Either I remember to much or nothing at all.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> I am sorry, I just wish that everyone would stop labeling me and trying to figure me out, because I am wayyyyy to complex of a person to be labled except maybe the lable of DP/DR anyway. And no normal person could EVER figure out what is going on in my dam head. I can't even bearly keep tract of who the hell I am, so why do other people try to figure me out and label me all the dam time?
> 
> Sorry for going so far off topic.
> 
> ...


Lostone, it's just human nature to try to 'figure things or people' out so their 'me' can say it solved it. It's their ego junk. No biggy. Try not take it too personally. When you get down to it, what they 'say' or 'think' is more a function of their misguided personality and/or ignorance than it is any form of 'truth' about you. Not to say they're bad people. They're just 'normal', everyday folks that don't have a clue about people like you....or me. 

Ya know, 20 years ago, depression was seen as more of a character flaw than anything else. People that had never experienced it couldn't relate to it and so it looked like the 'depressed' person was just self-centered, lazy, wanted attention, etc. I know. I went through that. It was HORRIBLE! Not the same kind of 'horrible' as DP/DR but emotionally painful just the same. It was the same arena of being totally misunderstood and labeled. God, I have come to despise labels of any kind. They keep people stuck even if they've 'moved' and the label doesn't fit anymore. The advent of the internet where so many people could connect and share information was such a blessing. It not only helped individuals, it helped the medical community as well.

Well, that was me starting to head off into the deep end of the pool so I'll stop...again.

Maybe you could develop a 'persona' of the quiet, contemplative, strong man. A man that speaks little but says much. A man that has more insight into human nature because he's experienced being beyond it. Does that make sense? :wink: And quit trying to 'effort' to be the type of person others think is normal. I no longer care to be that kind of normal.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

P. S. If you're gonna be lonely, rejected, or labelled, let it be because of a more realistic you...a 'you' you've made more peace with and that doesn't feel he has to be like everybody else in order to NOT be lonely, rejected, and labelled. Better to let them wonder what's going on in the 'quietness' than to give them an overcompensating 'you' that they can see. Does that make sense? I keep asking that question. Why do I do that? That last one is a rhetorical question. :wink:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

kwgrid your words have made me very happy  .



> God, I have come to despise labels of any kind.


I feel the same way now, I used to label people just so I could make fun of them but now that I am older and DP/DRed I realize how stupid labels are. Not even one of the labels I have been given has actually fit with who I really am. None of them even come close except DP/DR.



> Maybe you could develop a 'persona' of the quiet, contemplative, strong man. A man that speaks little but says much. A man that has more insight into human nature because he's experienced being beyond it. Does that make sense? And quit trying to 'effort' to be the type of person others think is normal. I no longer care to be that kind of normal.


This is exactly what I am starting to become. I have always been told that you don't fully muture until your about 25 and as I am reaching that age I am realizing why. I don't care as much anymore about trying to be normal and the way I feel is that if someone don't put in the effort to find the real "me" then I don't want them to get to know me anyway. Being popular in my mind now only means that you are ignorant and really "lost", I feel lost but in reality I think that I am one of the only people that really knows what is going on in this world.



> P. S. If you're gonna be lonely, rejected, or labelled, let it be because of a more realistic you...a 'you' you've made more peace with and that doesn't feel he has to be like everybody else in order to NOT be lonely, rejected, and labelled. Better to let them wonder what's going on in the 'quietness' than to give them an overcompensating 'you' that they can see. Does that make sense? I keep asking that question. Why do I do that? That last one is a rhetorical question.


Thats true. Usually I try to overcompensate just so I don't make other people feel uncomfertable around me but I don't care anymore. Why should I go to such great lengths for other people when they do nothing for me? Knowbody I have ever met has put in any effort into ever really getting to know me for who I really am so why do I even bother?
I am just going to be content with myself and not worry about other people anymore. Your right kwgrid I don't have to be like anyone else and I am actually somewhat proud of my uniqueness because I consider popularity to just be ignorance since the world as a whole is just smothered in ignorance.

kwgrid you always make sense to those that can understand you :wink: .
My brother always tells me to stop saying the words "you know" because I myself am always tracking people to make sure that they follow me. It is not that I am stupid it is just that I go over most peoples heads becasue they are stupid! I bet you are the same way wich is why you keep asking if you make sense :wink: .
It gets to become a habit when you are surounded by people that are not as smart as you yourself are.

Do you understand? :wink: 
Sorry.. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> >snipped>Do you understand? :wink:
> Sorry.. :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :lol:  Yes, I do!

P. S. Everything else you said was 'well said.'
P.P.S. I'm very glad my words about labels made you happy.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I think, in many ways, we ARE smarter...but only in the sense that we've seen so much and been through so much that so many haven't....and, therefore, can't possibly understand. It can be lonely sometimes. Thank God for the internet, right? :wink:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> At the risk of sounding arrogant, I think, in many ways, we ARE smarter...but only in the sense that we've seen so much and been through so much that so many haven't....and, therefore, can't possibly understand. It can be lonely sometimes. Thank God for the internet, right?


Yes thank God for the internet. Actually it is so surprising that I have found people that are at my level of thinking that I have to question your exsistance because it is to much of a miricle  . I know you exist but it really is amazing to me because I spent 8 years thinking that I was so far above people in my thinking that I must have been made for some special purpuse or something :wink: .

What you said about our intelligence is how I feel. I have weak spots like my spelling is very bad but as far as knowledge in general I think I am way ahead of most people. I have seen things and been through things that most people could not even dream about and for me it wasnt just a dream but it was reality :wink: . I don't like to look down on other people though, I just view them a diffrent. I am complex and deep and other peolple are simple and gullible(for lack of a better word :wink: ), thats how I look at it. 
I just get very mad when the simple people think that I am the one that is simple and closed minded. I actually knew a kid not long ago that always told me I was closed minded and that I should become more open like him, he made me want to punch his teeth out when he would tell me that. I am closed minded about some issues now but thats only because I have already been open to everything and I have already searched the stars and found the answers so why would I need to continue to be open about things that I now know are totally wrong? It's just so hard to have a knowledge that nobody else around you has. kwgrid I am happy to have met you because I think that you at least have an idea of what I am talking about.

"You know" :lol: lol


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> Yes thank God for the internet. Actually it is so surprising that I have found people that are at my level of thinking that I have to question your exsistance because it is to much of a miricle  . I know you exist but it really is amazing to me because I spent 8 years thinking that I was so far above people in my thinking that I must have been made for some special purpuse or something :wink: .
> 
> What you said about our intelligence is how I feel. I have weak spots like my spelling is very bad but as far as knowledge in general I think I am way ahead of most people. I have seen things and been through things that most people could not even dream about and for me it wasnt just a dream but it was reality :wink: . I don't like to look down on other people though, I just view them a diffrent. I am complex and deep and other peolple are simple and gullible(for lack of a better word :wink: ), thats how I look at it.
> I just get very mad when the simple people think that I am the one that is simple and closed minded. I actually knew a kid not long ago that always told me I was closed minded and that I should become more open like him, he made me want to punch his teeth out when he would tell me that. I am closed minded about some issues now but thats only because I have already been open to everything and I have already searched the stars and found the answers so why would I need to continue to be open about things that I now know are totally wrong? It's just so hard to have a knowledge that nobody else around you has. kwgrid I am happy to have met you because I think that you at least have an idea of what I am talking about.
> ...


 Yes, I think I do 'know'. :lol:

Lostone, from the beginnings of the human race individuals that were 'different,' no matter the form it took, were seen in some other light than the majority whether for the best or the worst. It's not new. :wink:

One signpost for you (or anybody, for that matter) that will be a definite marker of improved awareness is when you begin to 'allow' everyone to be just who they are and discover that you don't take anything personally anymore. Why upset your 'innards' over what you can't fix and, furthermore, is not your responsibility to fix even if its a false representation of 'you'? That doesn't mean you have to interrelate with them or agree with them. And, when you get right down to it, what they think is really none of your business unless they actively begin to interfere in your life with their 'opinions.' And, of course, all of that goes for the reverse, too. :wink:

I've had tons of difficulty with this myself and from the very people that I thought loved me regardless. I went from being very sociable and comfortable with anybody, anywhere to being antisocial and uncomfortable anywhere with anybody. One extreme to the other. It was difficult to figure out this 'balance' business. I finally saw that it couldn't be 'balanced' in the normal sense that term. It required a whole new way of 'seeing.' It required getting a more bird's-eye view of people in general, including myself.

But it's early and my neurons aren't up for this sort of discussion. Besides, most of it can't be explained in words. At least 'I' can't explain it in words. har It has to be 'seen' for yourself. Sounds like you're headed for a big insight that will take the whole issue off your plate.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> It required getting a more bird's-eye view of people in general, including myself.


Thats what caused my problems to begin with.

What the problem is, is dealing with what I have seen from the bird's eye view of myslef and the world around me. It has been hard for me to accept that other people are not up here with me because I feel like everything is just so clear to me and I don't understand why it is not clear to everyone else :? .



> Sounds like you're headed for a big insight that will take the whole issue off your plate.


Yep I think that I have just had that insight tonight. This is the 2end night in a row that I haven't been able to sleep because of my thoughts and I think that I am in the final stages of my DP/DR. I am figuring out a lot of things lately. I would talk more about my insights on dpselfhelp but they are more personal and I don't know if it would be any help for me to talk on here about it in detail. Each one of us has our own special path out of DP/DR and I think that I am finding my path now. Part of me is sad to have to face the truth about things, but I am also very happy that I know for sure how to get rid of DP/DR for the rest of my life. I have a lot of "letting go" to tend to now.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> Yep I think that I have just had that insight tonight. This is the 2end night in a row that I haven't been able to sleep because of my thoughts and I think that I am in the final stages of my DP/DR. I am figuring out a lot of things lately. I would talk more about my insights on dpselfhelp but they are more personal and I don't know if it would be any help for me to talk on here about it in detail. Each one of us has our own special path out of DP/DR and I think that I am finding my path now. Part of me is sad to have to face the truth about things, but I am also very happy that I know for sure how to get rid of DP/DR for the rest of my life. I have a lot of "letting go" to tend to now.


"I have a lot of "letting go" to tend to now."

That's the key thing right there. Easier said than done. :wink: It was a very traumatic experience for me to realize that not everybody was seeing what I was seeing. Acceptance of some of the things we realize is very, very hard and very, very sad.

This is a 'mixed bag' planet. If you think about it (and I'm sure you have), other people have no more knowledge or control about themselves or the world, than we do. They're skating along doing their thing just like us. I never use to try to sort things out. I took whatever rose up inside me as being 'me' and all was right with the world for the most part. I got to be me and everybody else was who they are. Not so. I became convinced that it wasn't okay to be 'me.' It wasn't 'safe' to be me. Even though I fit the criteria for a decent and caring human being, 'I' wasn't okay. The 'golden rule' didn't seem to apply at one stage of my life.

Well, heck. I'm still not together this morning. I just need to shut up. I feel like I haven't said anything the right way. I hope I didn't upset you in any way. I sure didn't mean to. I've been doing pretty good here lately and woke up in the 'old world' this morning. blech....


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Easier said than done. It was a very traumatic experience for me to realize that not everybody was seeing what I was seeing. Acceptance of some of the things we realize is very, very hard and very, very sad.


Acceptance has always been hard for me, I am very stubborn. I have even tried to WILL paradise on this world because for a long time I did not want to believe my eyes. I used to pray to God all the time and ask him to teach me why he would let all of this badness take place but he would never answer me (wich made me think he was evil or something). He has made me find the answers for myself and now I am realizing why. We are all like a child that gets in trouble because he/she did something wrong and then when he/she is punished he/she gets mad at the parrents and tells them that he/she hate's them because of the punishment. When the child grows up he/she realizes that the parrents were acting in the childs behalf the whole time. The whole world is rebelling because of the original punishment from God but nobody realizes that it is the continuous rebellion that is causing the continuous pain. This ties into my DP/DR in many ways and the "letting go" for me has a lot to do with just putting things in God's hands and trusting that he will take care of everything. I know that I am not God but for a long time I have been trying to understand things that only God could, and it has caused a lot of my problems. I have always been a skeptic and therefore I need a much bigger amount of knowledge then most people in order to have faith. Trying to gain this knowledge is what causes my continuous DP/DR cycle I think. I need to just give up in my search to understand everything and just have faith. I don't know about the rest of you but I think I have figured out my problems.

There is a lot more I would like to add to this but as I said before, most of my thoughts are about my personal DP/DR experience and I don't think you want to here about it.

P.S. I think that we should move this conversation to PM's because we seem to be the only two that are taking part in the conversation anyway :lol: .

I don't think anyone else is even reading this. 
Everyone else on dpselfhelp probably thinks we are both crazy :lol: .


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> Acceptance has always been hard for me, I am very stubborn. I have even tried to WILL paradise on this world...<snipped>


Same here. I don't know that I necessarily tried to 'will paradise' but I tried to 'will' my own healing. When one person 'heals' it reverberates to others. MHO. In the beginning, I tried to 'heal' others and get them to understand. I made myself sick in the process. But I thought that's what I was suppose to do...help others heal...be a comfort and support...etc. I finally realized that I could only help others if I helped myself first. This met with all sorts of accusations of 'self-centeredness and selfishness' that was very painful but by that time I had no choice but to deal with my own healing in whatever area needed it the most at any point in time.

I discovered as part of this process that if I felt I 'had to do it that way' and found the strength whether personally or by grace, then others had that option, too. I also realized that it was very arrogant of me ('martyrdom' is a form of arrogance. [ready for backlash on that one]) to think I could, let alone should, sacrifice my wellbeingness for someone else that had the capacity to do for themselves. Bear in mind, I'm NOT talking about helping someone that isn't in a position to help themselves. I'm talking about being the crutch for someone that refuses to face and deal with their own situation.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> 'self-centeredness and selfishness


I was just thinking about that issue.

I feel like I always come across to people as if I am a selfish prick or something but the fact is that I am just messed up in my head. I have a very good heart but my brain is scattered and broken and I am having a hard time putting the pices back together.



> I'm talking about being the crutch for someone that refuses to face and deal with their own situation.


Hmm, I think that I am my own crutch :lol: . I am the one that don't want to face and deal with my own situation and I am also the one that takes all the blame for that   I hate myself and myself  .

I must turn things around in my life, TODAY!!! :shock:


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> <snipped>
> Hmm, I think that I am my own crutch :lol: . I am the one that don't want to face and deal with my own situation and I am also the one that takes all the blame for that   I hate myself and myself  .
> <snipped>


 "I hate myself and myself"  :lol: :lol: :lol:

That is priceless!!!

P. S. Don't play the blame game...and, while you're at it, don't hate yourself. You don't even know who you're hating. :wink:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> P. S. Don't play the blame game...and, while you're at it, don't hate yourself. You don't even know who you're hating.


That's true, I shouldn't be to hard on myself but the fact is that I really do know who I am when I look in the mirror and it is a person that I do not like. I resent both sides of myself because they both make me feel horrible  . One part of me is the good part but it feels very guilty and heartbroken and terribly vexed. The other part of me is bad and does the wrong things all the time because it just don't care about anything anymore. The bad side don't feel the guilt but it hates the good side because the good keeps pointing out to the bad that the bad is wrong. The good side hates the bad because the bad is what makes the good side feel so guilty and miserable. Of course both sides are really the same person "me" but the war they are fighting within me is causeing my detatchment  .

There is also the me and me of DP/DR but that is to complex to even try to talk about. I am not sure my "good" and "bad" me made any sense to anyone.

P.S. I am glade that I have not angred anyone for taking the topic of this thread way off topic.

Sorry, I think I always do that. I don't know why.

My thinking is just to complex to stay on one subject.
I often get lost in conversation and that is part of the reason my name is lostone.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > P. S. Don't play the blame game...and, while you're at it, don't hate yourself. You don't even know who you're hating.
> 
> 
> That's true, I shouldn't be to hard on myself but the fact is that I really do know who I am when I look in the mirror and it is a person that I do not like. I resent both sides of myself because they both make me feel horrible  . One part of me is the good part but it feels very guilty and heartbroken and terribly vexed. The other part of me is bad and does the wrong things all the time because it just don't care about anything anymore. The bad side don't feel the guilt but it hates the good side because the good keeps pointing out to the bad that the bad is wrong. The good side hates the bad because the bad is what makes the good side feel so guilty and miserable. Of course both sides are really the same person "me" but the war they are fighting within me is causeing my detatchment  .
> ...


Has it ever occurred to you that 'you' are neither one of the arguments your mind is putting forth? You keep going from one to the other and identifying with it and its justifications for itself. Wanting the 'positive' to be the 'only real you' is not realistic in a world of duality. You are both of those sides and neither. The 'detached' part of you that gets out of the 'fray' is closer to being the 'real, ultimate' you than either of the others. The 'mind' can't accept that it's neither of those positions because it doesn't 'know' of any other way to hold itself. It hasn't experienced itself from a different vantage point so it keeps rehashing what it DOES know. Your true 'self' is trying to create an experience for the mind that is beyond the duality so that you can 'have it' and the mind will stop arguing with itself. har har

Dare I say it? Yes, I dare: "Does that make sense?" :lol:

[dismount soapbox  ]


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Has it ever occurred to you that 'you' are neither one of the arguments your mind is putting forth? You keep going from one to the other and identifying with it and its justifications for itself. Wanting the 'positive' to be the 'only real you' is not realistic in a world of duality. You are both of those sides and neither. The 'detached' part of you that gets out of the 'fray' is closer to being the 'real, ultimate' you than either of the others. The 'mind' can't accept that it's neither of those positions because it doesn't 'know' of any other way to hold itself. It hasn't experienced itself from a different vantage point so it keeps rehashing what it DOES know. Your true 'self' is trying to create an experience for the mind that is beyond the duality so that you can 'have it' and the mind will stop arguing with itself. har har


WoW!

You seem to understand me better then anyone that I have ever talked to!
That is exactly what is going on with my brain. I am fighting a war in my head all the time with my own self image and with the way I view the world. I would go into great detail about this but I fear not making any sense and only waisting my time. I think you understand the jist of it anyway. It is a cycle of thinking that is very hard to pull away from. I go from being good and feeling guilty then I get overwhelmed and I tell myself "who cares" then I become bad and feel like there is no point in doing anything "right" anyway because I am only a failure. In the middle is my DP/DR and the "me" that don't want to deal with either side of me (now there are three me's :? ). DP/DR happens because my mind just can't handle this world or anything anymore. I am very stubborn and I have a huge problem dealing with evil, imperfection, indecision and injustice in any form. I get very bent out of shape over anything that I view as "not right" and in a way I try to use my brain powers to make what is "not right" simply go away and that is my DP/DR. When what is "not right" goes away, my identity and reality go with it because I am "not right" and neither is this world that I live in. I think that my DP/DR will only go away when this world is destroyed or when I learn to deal with the world for what it is and learn to deal with myself and my own shortcomings. I hope that I learn to deal with reality about things before the end comes because I don't want to die along with everyone else. That would be a horrible, horrible nightmare of an irony that I could not even begin to tell you about, it is what I fear most.

I must learn to deal with things now because I think I am running out of time.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I think that although this conversation has went off topic we are showing an example of why we can have problems with our memory.

We are all messed up. Our memory is part of the problem I think. There are many momories that I would like to forget about myself. It makes sense to me that I have a problem focusing on any memory at any given moment because my whole thought process is messed up.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2006)

LOSTONE wrote: "In the middle is my DP/DR and the "me" that don't want to deal with either side of me (now there are three me's ).

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Okay, now you qualify for MPD. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (multiple personality disorder)

Let me tell ya a story:

There was this accolite ('esoteric trainee') that was intent on searching for the ultimate meaning of it all. He questioned everything and waited for answers. He found many, many answers but they only created more questions. For every door that closed, a whole row of new ones would open up.

After years and years of this process, his body and his mind were so tired that it could hardly function. He could only register "I give up." In that instant, he saw the 'truth.'

The title of this story, and I paraphrased it for brevity, is THE 50th GATE.
The biological mind and the body/mind consciousness is designed to do the very sort of hunting for answers that everyone goes through. The problem is, that due to lack of any other understanding, it can only use what it currently has to work with. It can't provide any 'ultimate' answer because it, in itself, is NOT the 'ultimate' answer. But try, try, try, it does.

Only when a train of thought, just one, can be tracked all the way through and both sides of its existence (duality) seen as valid in themselves yet not constantly true, until it reaches the end and there's nowhere to go but to jump off the 'cliff of the unknown' can it 'see' what it hasn't been able to see before and that is: our reality is a construct of the biophysical and genetic brain and nothing more. Our fear (part of the biophysical survival mechanism) of the unknown prohibits us, in our ignorance, from jumping off into the unknown. Another way to say it is: we won't let go of our preconceived ideas, our schooling, our upbringing, our genetic memory and 'allow' for something new to enter our minds. Doing that feels like 'death' to the mind. In a way it is. It's letting go of all the self-referencing markers it has heretofore held sacred. Going beyond those walls is terrifying. The mind 'has to know' what's ahead before it moves there.

Aw heck, I can't get into this in a post. It's too broad. Bottom line, I guess, is just 'think' until you can't 'think' anymore. With a little grace, you might accidentally (and it usually is an accident) leave a little tiny hole open that a blinding insight can come into that will resolve this whole issue for you once and for all.

The real key is having a willingness to let go of what you think the truth is. The mind wants something to take its place instantly. The 'void' of waiting with an open mind is intolerable to itself. It has to have a 'marker' that says 'this is me.' If you want insight beyond what you normally think is available, you have to allow space for it to come. Just don't let your brains fall out while your mind is open. :wink:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

kwgrid I know what your talking about so you don't have to go into detail. 
I have opened so many doors in my mind that I don't even know where the hell I am anymore. I have answered questions about God and reality that I could not even begin to explain to anyone because it is so far beyond most peoples thinking abilities. All these answers do though is open new possibilities in my mind and make me realize all the more, that I am not God and I never will be. God's mind must really be expansive because the doorways of reality are endless.

It was just a few weeks ago when I had the insight that you are talking about.

I read a Watchtower that put things into perspective for me in a major way. I don't know if you would care to read it but here it is. Maybe it will help you as it did for me. 
http://the-true-jw.oltenia.ro/a_mind.html
Ironically it is titled "A mind freed for Godly combat!"

It is very old so it uses the king james version of the bible and the tone is a little more bold then the tone that the Witnesses take these days.

It don't matter if you believe in God or not, the message for me is to simplify my thinking and that is all.

For me it is a religious thing though because much of my thinking is about religion.

If I sumed up that Watchtower in one scripture it would be this one.
Joshua 24:15 
15 Now if it is bad in YOUR eyes to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom YOU will serve, whether the gods that YOUR forefathers who were on the other side of the River served or the gods of the Am?or?ites in whose land YOU are dwelling. But as for me and my household, we shall serve Jehovah.?

When I read that scripture and then finished the Watchtower I realized what causes most of my DP/DR. I have way to many questionings in my head and that is what drives me crazy. For me the answer is simple, I must simply do what my God tells me to do because I know that these things are all good! I knew this for a long time but when I read that Watchtower it hit me in a way that made me realize that I have been causeing all of my own pain. I know what will make me happy but I continue to doubt myself and question every single scripture and word that everyone has ever said to me. I feel like I must find the whole truth and everything and every answer that exist but I am now realizing that I have been playing God in my own head and I am not God so I need to stop acting as if I could come to an understanding of things that only God could understand. Again for all you people that are not religious, this still pertains to you because I am sure that you all have a lot of questionings of your own if you believe in God or not.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2006)

I apologize. I don't answer just for you, necessarily. I try to think of anyone else that might be reading the post.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I apologize. I don't answer just for you, necessarily. I try to think of anyone else that might be reading the post


 :? I don't know why you are apologizing to me, for what?

I also try to think of other people that might be reading my post all the time but in this thread I feel like we are all alone for some reason.

I know I just went further off topic by talking about religion but as I said before I can't help going off topic all the time. I have to much in my head to stick to any one single issue for long. It is part of my problem.

If you were apologizing for the MPD comment, you don't need to because I though it was funny :lol: .

I have made fun of myself before because of feeling like I have MPD although I don't have it, I do feel split in some ways.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2006)

I was apologizing for going into all that detail. I got the impression that you felt a little insulted and I didn't mean to do that.

I thought the MPD was funny, too. :lol:

I know about the 'staying on topic' problem. I do a lot better when typing than I do when talking. If I'm talking, my mind connects so many dots that veer into other zones that the eyes of whoever's talking with me just glaze over. :lol:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I know about the 'staying on topic' problem. I do a lot better when typing than I do when talking. If I'm talking, my mind connects so many dots that veer into other zones that the eyes of whoever's talking with me just glaze over.


That's why you will never find me in the chatroom.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > I know about the 'staying on topic' problem. I do a lot better when typing than I do when talking. If I'm talking, my mind connects so many dots that veer into other zones that the eyes of whoever's talking with me just glaze over.
> 
> 
> That's why you will never find me in the chatroom.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I was apologizing for going into all that detail. I got the impression that you felt a little insulted and I didn't mean to do that.


By the way, I was happy that you went into detail, I just wanted you to know that I understood you.

I think that we are on the exact same page. 
Hmm, I have not said that in many years   .

If someone can understand me then I know and have proof that I am not insain  !

Thank you God for dpselfhelp.com


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > I was apologizing for going into all that detail. I got the impression that you felt a little insulted and I didn't mean to do that.
> 
> 
> By the way, I was happy that you went into detail, I just wanted you to know that I understood you.
> ...


Reference your last sentence: Be sure that you don't become a danger to yourself or others! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: The fact that WE think we might be 'in danger' ourselves does not qualify. :lol: :lol:

I'm logging out for a while. I have some stuff to do. I always look forward to coming back online and 'seeing' everybody. This is such a great place!!


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Reference your last sentence: Be sure that you don't become a danger to yourself or others! The fact that WE think we might be 'in danger' ourselves does not qualify.


I have no idea why you just said that but what you said is a huge coincidence that the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck.

I am listening to a NIN song Pilgrimage, that I have not herd in 6 years that has a lot of meening to me (been looking for the song for a while) and then I read your post just as the song came on. I am shocked and I can't explain why but I think it is more then just a coincidence.

I wish I knew whay you said what you said. I think you were just jokeing around but it is really amazing to me that you said exactly what I was thinking just before I read you post. :wink:

WOW



> Be sure that you don't become a danger to yourself or others!


I feel like I could have become a danger to the whole world if that was the path that I would have chosen. I know to much and I have thought of killing myself before just out of fear that I was going to start WW3 and lead the world off into destruction.

I think I just said to much but I don't care anymore. 
I am not evil and I no longer fear the bad in me because I know that I will either become a Jehovah's Witness or I will die. I will not let myself do anything bad, even though I think that I have power to do much great harm if it was my wish. People have always been like sheep in my mind and I think I could herd them as easy as Hitler did (not the Jews but the Germans, he made the Germans believe whatever he wanted and I believe that I have this same power). I don't like to take advantage of people though, but this used to scare the hell out of me for reasons I am not going to mention here.

I don't think anyone is going to want to talk to me on here now.
My heart is good but *if *it was bad, I know that I could do much damage, thats all I really mean.

Power is scary if you don't want it  .
(I just want to hide and fade away sometimes.)


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > Reference your last sentence: Be sure that you don't become a danger to yourself or others! The fact that WE think we might be 'in danger' ourselves does not qualify.
> 
> 
> I have no idea why you just said that but what you said is a huge coincidence that the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck.
> ...


Dadgum it, I wrote a reply and got out of the forum but I must have done something wrong because when I came back in my reply wasn't here. I hate it when I do something like that and I'm sure it was something I did.

Anyway, back to you. I have a messa laughing faces after that comment I made about being sure' not to become a danger to yourself or others.' I absolutely was joking. If it turned out to be a 'twilight zone' thing then the only thing I can say is that it needed to be said, apparently.

Keep your war 'inside.' Don't let it bleed out if you can help it. After all, it's your war, no one else's.

BTW, if it helps any, get really ticked off at our human predecessors for leaving us stuck with a dysfunctional, biodegradable piece of hell that we have to deal with, clean up...along with our own junk we created before we knew better and we have to do all that before we can have our own joy in this body!! "The sins of the fathers are visited on the sons" has a lot more meaning than anyone realizes. It's the same level of lack of knowledge as the mind/body/spirit connection. But all that is a topic for another day. 

Hang tough. Be kind to yourself as often as you can. It's not all your fault that this junk is going on. I always hesistate to say that because I don't want to encourage anybody to slough off the responsibility of dealing with the 'tinker toys' they were handed. Damaged, dysfunctional, or not, it's all still ours to contend with. As my younger sister would say, "There that is." :wink:


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

P. S.

LOSTONE wrote: "I don't think anyone is going to want to talk to me on here now. My heart is good but if it was bad, I know that I could do much damage, thats all I really mean."

HEELLOOOO, ANYBODY THERE? We all could do that. And what is this business about nobody on the forum wanting to talk to you anymore? Do I need to bring any wine or cheese or hot wings to this pity party?

BTW, MHO, it's perfectly alright to have a pity party...once in a while and just for a little while. Gotta get the 'charge' off some nasty feelings some kinda way. That's one of the most harmless ways. I've had a few partys myself. If anybody else showed up, they didn't stay long. :lol: They maybe said a few words, told me to get over myself, some of them might have given a hug.....they may have left a bucket a chicken or something...and then they left. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, it's okay to go there. It's tough being a human being. A friend of mine once said something that, even with all the reading I've done of so many great minds and none not so great, I thought was THE most profound thing I ever heard. I even used it in a eulogy for my mother.

He said "If it was easy being human, more people would be better at it."

Nuff said............. :wink:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Do I need to bring any wine or cheese or hot wings to this pity party?


 :lol:

It was not so much a pity party but more a fear because of something I might should not have said on here. I have said more on here then I have ever said before and I just though maybe I was making a mistake in opening my mouth about something.

Pity poor me  :lol: :wink:

LOSTONE wrote: "I don't think anyone is going to want to talk to me on here now. My heart is good but if it was bad, I know that I could do much damage, thats all I really mean."

"kwgrid" HEELLOOOO, ANYBODY THERE? We all could do that.

I don't know if everyone would be able to take over the world and lead it off into destruction but if they can then we are still on the same page because that is the dammage I was talking about. 
Pity poor me :lol: .



> Dadgum it, I wrote a reply and got out of the forum but I must have done something wrong because when I came back in my reply wasn't here. I hate it when I do something like that and I'm sure it was something I did.


I used to have major problems posting on dpselfhelp but none anymore, I guess someone fixed the bug. Maybe the bug just jumped into your computer :wink: :lol: .



> Keep your war 'inside.' Don't let it bleed out if you can help it. After all, it's your war, no one else's.


Thats a good idea but hard to do especially on dpselfhelp because I feel like you all should understand what my life has been like. I know I go to far sometimes but your comment did send me into the twilight zone for a few minutes and I had a shocking realization.



> BTW, if it helps any, get really ticked off at our human predecessors for leaving us stuck with a dysfunctional, biodegradable piece of hell that we have to deal with, clean up...along with our own junk we created before we knew better and we have to do all that before we can have our own joy in this body!! "The sins of the fathers are visited on the sons" has a lot more meaning than anyone realizes. It's the same level of lack of knowledge as the mind/body/spirit connection. But all that is a topic for another day.


Good point and I think that all of this mess can be traced back to Adam and Eve and the sin that they did long ago. Every generation after them just continued to dump the load of sin onto the next generation and here we are today in the worst of it since the begining.

"If it was easy being human, more people would be better at it."

That is the best quote that I have read on here yet.

I know many very good humans but even for them their fight is a daily one and extreamly hard. Nobody on earth has it "easy" and nobody is perfict. Some people do have it harder then others though and I think that DP/DR puts us in a very special category.

"If it was easy being human, more people would be better at it."

That's a perfict wrap up I think.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

LOSTONE wrote: "Thats a good idea but hard to do especially on dpselfhelp because I feel like you all should understand what my life has been like. I know I go to far sometimes but your comment did send me into the twilight zone for a few minutes and I had a shocking realization. "

I didn't mean it that way!! I meant to keep any expression that could be interpreted as 'doing harm to yourself or others' inside... :wink:

This forum is a great place to unload verbally...which is an excellent way to discharge some 'charge.' 

And, yes, just make me mad enough and I'll start WW3!!! :lol:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> And, yes, just make me mad enough and I'll start WW3!!!


Okay I will back off then :lol: .



> I didn't mean it that way!! I meant to keep any expression that could be interpreted as 'doing harm to yourself or others' inside...


I know but I did not mean to come off as the next hitler. I am just expressing how I feel about the power I have gotten from DP/DR.

When you are given power, it is normal to think of the good and bad that you could do with it I think. I have chosen the good so all is well  .

I can relate with Charles Manson in his abilities though. 
I don't like to manipulate people and that is why I absolutely hate propaganda because I know how powerful it is and how gullible people are. It is just a power that I will never use but it does scare me.
I know I should not have brought this up. It is touchy to talk about this and I think I made a mistake.

P.S. maybe we should let this thread die now :? .


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

kwgrid said:


> And, yes, just make me mad enough and I'll start WW3!!!


Okay I will back off then :lol: .



> I didn't mean it that way!! I meant to keep any expression that could be interpreted as 'doing harm to yourself or others' inside...





LOSTONE said:


> I know but I did not mean to come off as the next hitler. I am just expressing how I feel about the power I have gotten from DP/DR.
> 
> When you are given power, it is normal to think of the good and bad that you could do with it I think. I have chosen the good so all is well  .
> 
> ...


Well, so far, I don't have a problem with anything you've written. Just eliminate any thoughts of surprising me at my back door. :shock: :lol: :lol: KIDDING!! KIDDING!! :lol:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Look out your window :shock: !

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> Look out your window :shock: !
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :arrow: 

:wink:


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## ashley50 (Feb 17, 2006)

----


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

ashley50 said:


> everything you guys say makes so much sense that im literally jittering in disbelief :shock: iv been gripeing with these thoughts and perspectives for so long thinking that i was truley the only one who saw these things and that has been one of the worst parts of dp/dr for me, infact iv become so depressed under this lonley strain that my self esteem has been crushed real bad, so as a result i find much difficulty in expressing myself, i am just so thankful that someone out there knows what goes on inside me and expresses it SO WELL!


ashley50, just dump whatever comes to mind out here. From what I can see, there's more than a few people that will completely understand and not slap a label on ya....you already have one: DP/DR :wink: Of course, they're gonna do their own dumping so you have to keep it 'safe' for them, too. Know what I mean? It's a whole lot better to work off a 'charge' on your upset and get some understanding and reassurance from people that know exactly what you're dealing with.

8)


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## ashley50 (Feb 17, 2006)

----


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> everything you guys say makes so much sense that im literally jittering in disbelief iv been gripeing with these thoughts and perspectives for so long thinking that i was truley the only one who saw these things and that has been one of the worst parts of dp/dr for me, infact iv become so depressed under this lonley strain that my self esteem has been crushed real bad, so as a result i find much difficulty in expressing myself, i am just so thankful that someone out there knows what goes on inside me and expresses it SO WELL!


Ashley I am happy that you have found something useful in this thread because I was starting to think that the long conversation that me and kwgrid just had here has went into a topic that even DP/DR people were not following. A few times after I posted on this thread I was thinking that I made a mistake by posting because someone out there would take what I said the wrong way and start an arguement or something.



> I was just hit with a great example of how much i doubt myself, i'm in english 30 and i just got out of class, we recieved our literary essays back and before i got mine i'm sitting there thinking im gonna get a failing mark thinking my essay was crap, then she hands it to me i look down and see a 93-freekin % , and my first thought is - , how did this happen?


I understand that totally. I often think that I have done badly in some way but then someone brings it to my attention that I actually exceeded expectations. For some reason I don't think that I could ever feel pride because no matter how much someone says that is good about me I always keep questioning my abilities. I think that it is because we are so hard on ourselves that we usually exceed what would be considered normal. If I had pride then I would probably stop putting so much thought into every single thing that I do in my life. I notice that even when I answer a question at my church (Kingdom Hall) I have to look up every single detail about the answer so that I don't make a fool out of myself and then even after all that effort, I still feel like my answer was just wrong somehow. I get down on myself and when I hear other peoples answers I think to myself that they are normal and my answers are only crazy or something. I realize that there is nothing really wrong with my answers but I just feel "off" for some reason, like I have missed the mark somehow and nobody could even understand what I just said.

Ashley I have also felt connected to a lot of your post in the past as well and I think that you should post more often because I haven't disagreed with any of your post that I can think of. I think that the problem we have with our self esteem is not really that bad. I think that in many ways we are actually more healthy then most "normal" people out there, this health just causes us pain in many ways. What I mean is that I think our self esteem is crushed because of the evil ways of the people around us and we have just all become very sensitive to these ways. I personally don't view myself as having a very bad self esteem, it is diffrent then that. It is more like I just feel crushed by the weight of the world. Like I am just to aware about people and what is going on in this world and it is a very heavy burden. I can not shake off what is real. A bad self image could be fixed but reality can not be, and that is our problem. We just have way to good of a sense of reality, and reality is evil and painful so we detach from it. I don't think I personally have a bad self image, I am just a very humble person and that is a good thing, but the way people treat me because of this is very, very bad. I don't know if any of you feel the same way but these are my thoughts about this.

I could have done much better at clearifying but I figure that you all understand what I am saying anyway.


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2006)

For what it's worth, I have a similar story to ashley50 that dates back to 1976.

I was in business college and had started out doing fairly well, I thought. Then I started having back spasms and had to go to the doctor for that. It turned out just to be stress-related. It soon came time for exams and I was petrified. I had studied and studied and studied yet I couldn't remember a single thing I had read or learned. My mind was a complete BLANK! Needless to say I was freakin' out. The day of the test in this one particular subject since it's the best example, I tried to get out of it and ask if I could take it another day because my mind was a total blank. My instructor said 'No, you'll do fine.' so I went in and sat down.

We were all handed the test....about 5 or 6 pages of type-written questions. I read the first question....tried to absorb it based on how my brain 'formerly' functioned and nothing happend. I sat there with 'air' between my ears. Then, like out of a black void, a word or a phrase would float across the blackness but had no 'marker' on them that said 'this is the answer'. I had no 'recognition' of it as such. I didn't know what to do. I finally said to myself "just write down that word or those words" and hope for the best. I was totally freakin' out!! :shock:

I did that through the entire exam. Not a single solitary instant of feeling that an answer I put down was correct or even 'not correct'. No feeling about it one way or the other! Also, there was no sense of 'doubt' about an answer. There was only 'the void.' :shock: Furthermore, when I moved from one question to the next question I could not have told you what the previous question said. It completely left my mind as soon as my eyes registered on the next question. Beezaarrree!! I had never experienced anything like that in my entire life!! :shock:

When we handed in our test papers, I told my instructor that I felt like I had failed it completely because I just couldn't seem to think that day. She just looked at me and smiled.

When we got the papers back, I had made 100%!!! Furthermore, one other class I took I made 150% due to a 50-point bonus for running the 'mock business' for an extra two weeks while the instructor was sick and the business stayed afloat. :shock: I ended up graduated with honors and setting a school typing speed record. 

This is just weird stuff!! That's all there is to it!! All 'markers' that gave personal feedback....our former 'recognition software' of 'correctness' whether it be personal feelings, academic/intellectual satisfaction or upset about it, or social connectedness no longer existed. Lights were on but nobody home....at least 'nobody' that we recognize. :wink:


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> I understand that totally. I often think that I have done badly in some way but then someone brings it to my attention that I actually exceeded expectations. For some reason I don't think that I could ever feel pride because no matter how much someone says that is good about me I always keep questioning my abilities. I think that it is because we are so hard on ourselves that we usually exceed what would be considered normal. If I had pride then I would probably stop putting so much thought into every single thing that I do in my life. I notice that even when I answer a question at my church (Kingdom Hall) I have to look up every single detail about the answer so that I don't make a fool out of myself and then even after all that effort, I still feel like my answer was just wrong somehow. I get down on myself and when I hear other peoples answers I think to myself that they are normal and my answers are only crazy or something. I realize that there is nothing really wrong with my answers but I just feel "off" for some reason, like I have missed the mark somehow and nobody could even understand what I just said.
> 
> Ashley I have also felt connected to a lot of your post in the past as well and I think that you should post more often because I haven't disagreed with any of your post that I can think of. I think that the problem we have with our self esteem is not really that bad. I think that in many ways we are actually more healthy then most "normal" people out there, this health just causes us pain in many ways. What I mean is that I think our self esteem is crushed because of the evil ways of the people around us and we have just all become very sensitive to these ways. I personally don't view myself as having a very bad self esteem, it is diffrent then that. It is more like I just feel crushed by the weight of the world. Like I am just to aware about people and what is going on in this world and it is a very heavy burden. I can not shake off what is real. A bad self image could be fixed but reality can not be, and that is our problem. We just have way to good of a sense of reality, and reality is evil and painful so we detach from it. I don't think I personally have a bad self image, I am just a very humble person and that is a good thing, but the way people treat me because of this is very, very bad. I don't know if any of you feel the same way but these are my thoughts about this.
> 
> I could have done much better at clearifying but I figure that you all understand what I am saying anyway.


I realized something when I was typing the story of business college. We have just got to STOP comparing now to before. BEFORE is GONE! And now is not so bad if (a) we quit comparing and trying to either 'go back there' or bemoan the fact that we're not already there.

I also see how the 'horribleness' of the world is a processing of the 'negative' polarity of a dual world that everyone from the dawn of time seem to insist on suppressing and not giving it is truthful place in the dual consciousness. It's the flipside of every single postive 'coin' that out's there...always has been and always will be for anyone that is experiencing duality. Period!! It's just like what the Bible says about the poor: it will always be with us!! Period. The only way out is to 'resolve' the paradox of positive/negative. To do that, we have to hold both sides of that 'coin' in our mind at the same time. It's the same exercise that is required to resolve any paradox on this planet.

If you can train your mind to hold two opposing ideas while you track them back to their beginning, you will not only 'see' the resolution but you will experience what it is to be in the 'one' mind as opposed to the 'dual' mind. Doing that is precisely how I came to see the 'coin' and both of its sides. One cannot exist without the other as long as perception is on one side or the other.

The irony is that once you see that the two sides are actually 'one coin', you see, at the same time 'the coin' itself. There's no other way for it to happen. If you hold a coin up to your face, flat on one side, you see that side. If you turn it around, you see the other side. If you turn it at an angle you see both sides but at the same time that you see both sides, you see that the coin is 'whole.' Get it??


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> It's the same exercise that is required to resolve any paradox on this planet.


Yes resolving paradoxes is what I am all about  !



> I realized something when I was typing the story of business college. We have just got to STOP comparing now to before. BEFORE is GONE! And now is not so bad if (a) we quit comparing and trying to either 'go back there' or bemoan the fact that we're not already there.


Yes there have been a few threads about this comparing thing and I just read a poem that I wanted to put up in my own thread, I think I will post it here first.

This was wrote by Kalidasa an Indian dramatist.

SALUTATION TO THE DAWN
Look to this day!
For it is life, the very life of life.
In its brief course
Lie all the verities and realities of your existence:
The bliss of growth 
The glory of action
The splendor of beauty,
For yesterday is but a dream
And tomorrow is only a vision,
But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness 
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.
Look well, therefore, to this day!
Such is the salutation to the dawn. 

This poem is found in the book I talk a lot about on here. 
Dale Carnegie's Lifetime Plan For Success.

kwgrid your experience with that test is interesting and I think that the reason you did so well is because you were actually extreamly focused.
I think that we are so very focused that we don't feel like we are focused at all because the only thing we are focused on is the answer to the question and not the fact that we know that answer. I don't know if you follow this but I am almost positive that is the reason that things come out so well for us even though we feel like it should be all messed up. It is not that we are not focused but I think it is an over focus that causes us to feel so off but then be so "right on".


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> kwgrid your experience with that test is interesting and I think that the reason you did so well is because you were actually extreamly focused.
> 
> I think that we are so very focused that we don't feel like we are focused at all because the only thing we are focused on is the answer to the question and not the fact that we know that answer. I don't know if you follow this but I am almost positive that is the reason that things come out so well for us even though we feel like it should be all messed up. It is not that we are not focused but I think it is an over focus that causes us to feel so off but then be so "right on".


Nice poem. 

I hadn't really thought about the idea of being 'hyper-focused' in that situation. In fact, until I wrote about that event, I hadn't thought about it in years and years. Now that I've read what you say, you could be on to something there. hmmmm....

If that's more true than anything else, then it's a good argument for 'something else' being at the healm at times because my 'personality', my 'me' wasn't involved in active 'decision-making' about either the questions or the answers. Does that make sense? I simply accepted it, more or less, and put one foot in front of the other with more a sense of 'faith' than anything else although that's not the right word either. Maybe 'cooperation' or 'allowing it' is a better way to put it. Interesting.

I was wondering what I was gonna be thinking about today. I think you gave me some 'food for thought.' ha :wink:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> If that's more true than anything else, then it's a good argument for 'something else' being at the healm at times because my 'personality', my 'me' wasn't involved in active 'decision-making' about either the questions or the answers. Does that make sense? I simply accepted it, more or less, and put one foot in front of the other with more a sense of 'faith' than anything else although that's not the right word either. Maybe 'cooperation' or 'allowing it' is a better way to put it. Interesting.


Yeah I don't think that "me" the observer and the one living this experence is really a part of the answers in your brain. The fact that we can detatch ourselves from those answers makes us become focused to a level that other people can't reach. At the same time though we feel as if we are totally out of focus because we are not connected to the answers. It is a strange thing but I think that we do over focus most of the time, I know this because I have certain strong memories of something that I should not be able to remember (like a small crack in a wall of a place in lived in years ago, or a small little nail sticking out of a wall in my sisters old apartment :shock: ). Maybe it is just me, but I seem to be so focused that I can not even focus on what I am focused on most of the time :shock: :? ! In conversations I seem to focus on peoples movements and tone of voice so much that I lose my own train of thought and I can't socialize because I am just way to focused on the non-important things going on around me that nobody else is even aware of.


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