# What ever happened to Janine Baker? And how to focus outward



## Guest (Apr 28, 2007)

I hear alot of people saying that you need to focus outward to get better. dont feed the ruminations. But nobody ever says HOW.

when i am like this....the way i am. its all i can think about. when i try to push those obsessive ruminations away. there is nothing else. it feels empty and blank. like im disappearing. So what do we do.

Eric


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Find a way to connect with and express the supressed emotions which are the root cause of your ruminations


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2007)

One thing which ?really? helped me look ?outward? was when I took my dog for a walk with my camera, I spend so much time looking outwards looking for targets to take a photo of? I became much more aware of my surrounds and it helped me a lot.


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2007)

I guess it kind of confused me. Because i got into a discussion with Martinelv about this.

He was saying that the ruminations are just there, just as anxiety. They have no underlying significance.

I on the other hand, was asking if they were there because of underlying problems. etc. etc.

It would seem to me that one would have to solve the underlying causes, for the obsession rumination to disappear, correct? So why is everybody on this site saying the answer is just to 'distract yourself'. How can both of those be right. I dont know, maybe distracting yourself helps in the short term, while working on the other stuff in the long term helps.

Its just a problem for me, I feel like my ruminations are my comfort zone. Whenever I try to block them out or just push them aside. I start feeling extremely uncomfortable. Almost more out of control and detached because I am blindly going forward engaging in life feeling blank. And without the ruminations........what else is there? 
Idk its just confusing for me. But everything DOES get worse when i try to distract myself. everything feels way more detached and empty. LIke im putting myself out there and feel completely detached and unsure of myself. and spinning. Its like.....where do i put my mind, if not on the ruminations.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Eric,

Don't get us wrong, we're not saying you have to permanently push the underlying stuff away--just until you can get the thoughts under control.

Once you're in the right frame of mind to do it...THEN you start dealing with the other stuff.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I think the ruminations are there as part of a defence to stop you from you feeling emotions, so in that sense they have no real significance in that what they are focusing on is not important, so in a way the best way is not to feed them any more energy by giving them any more importance, so forget them and focus outwards.

But I do believe that they exist because of an underlying emotional problem, so the answer is not to focus on the ruminations but find a way to connect with and make conscious the emotions which cause the ruminations, which is not something you can do using the thinking part of your mind.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Go walk in a park and pick a flower of every colour you can find. Then pluck all of the petals and lay them out on the floor to make new flowers, all intermingled like rainbows.

Anything that uses concentration... That's just a favourite of mine.

Thread a needle with the tiniest eye.

Dismantle an electrical item (cheap if possible) then try and put it back together.

Concentrate on anything other than your mind, you'll find a way out of it eventually.

Preferably something that you wouldn't do on a day to day basis, so that you have to put some concentration into it. Avoid auto-pilot or you're defying the object.

Good luck.


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## Soma (Mar 29, 2006)

It depends. How do you focus outside if you're derealised?


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Those things are there, whether you accept them to be real or not.

You'll never be able to believe something is real if you don't interact with it, believe me, it's hard at first but progress can be made.

It is there... it may well be a figment of your imagination... so what, either way, indulge your senses.

It's hard to explain in text but it can be a fantastic therapy.

Sorry, I'm zoning out, goodnight.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2007)

why would I want to make conscious the emotions I feel under the surface...they are all pain.

Ive been tapping into it lately, a little. and all that it is, is pain. Neverending pain.

I think, I would rather keep them where they are.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2007)

> What ever happened to Janine Baker?


She ate yellow snow... "Shrugs"


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

Right now your mind is swimming in stress hormones. They tend to distort your thinking and make it extremely pessimistic. It's like everything you think will come out to be the worst possible forecast of what is wrong with you. This might be adaptive if you were out in the wild being attacked by tigers and had to make absolutely sure you were safe, but they lose some of their usefulness in the situation where you are lying in bed all day trying to find out your "underlying issues".

Case in point: I ask you what things you've done in the past that seemed to make you feel better and you say that there weren't many of them (as if they don't count). That is an overly pessimistic way of looking at it because you are discounting that you have felt better. There is a negative bias to your thinking: if you feel better 2% of the time, that is not 0% of the time, that is still 2%. Your stress hormones make you think this way. If you distract yourself long enough to let your body know it's safe, you'll burn off the stress hormones, get into a state where you know 2% is 2% and not 0%, and will be able to look at the problem more rationally, absent of this negative bias.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2007)

Suz said:


> Go walk in a park and pick a flower* of every colour you can find.


 :shock: :lol:

Seriously though, you have to find the underlying problem first.

Greg


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## the big bad i said no! (Oct 14, 2006)

i always try to write down any obbsessive, painfull and anoying thoughts in a book i keep. i find writing them down a good way to keep them seperate from my fagile brain. after writnig them i feel they are stored somewhere else, which i find helps alot of the time and sometimes when i look over old pages i wonder why i was even worrying about some of the things. it helps me understand alot of it was silly aniextys i had at the time so the present ones are proberly the same. it dosent stop them and isnt a cure but just a helpfull method of exepting these thoughts.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

jesusmyangsthasabodycount said:


> why would I want to make conscious the emotions I feel under the surface...they are all pain.
> 
> Ive been tapping into it lately, a little. and all that it is, is pain. Neverending pain.
> 
> I think, I would rather keep them where they are.


Because if you can express those emotions and process them, get some perspective on it, then they will no longer haunt you. However, its hard to do this on your own because you've built up so many different ways of coping that, basically, don't work.

The idea of a counsellor/therapist/psychologist/whatever is that they can help you slowly pull out these emotions and gradually process and deal with them.

Ultimately, if you leave the emotions down there, its just energy building up that wants to get out. Until you can express them in a healthy way, they won't go away.

As overwhelming as it seems, you can heal. People do it every day and you are no different. But its a process, it doesn't happen over night.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Im still the same person said:


> Suz said:
> 
> 
> > Go walk in a park and pick a flower* of every colour you can find.
> ...


Oh Greg...


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## Guest (May 1, 2007)

You all are saying I have to tap into and express underlying emotions. What if its all a bunch of fear......i dont get it. express what emotions. i already feel them all the time. what possible good is expressing them going to do. it wont get them to go away.

Ive tried to deal with them in therapy. Ive told my therapist about my fears. I still feel messed up inside. I cant heal it. i dont want to feel fear anymore. i have let all this get out of control. my fear. I want to feel peace where there is fear. but i dont know how. i have let these things take over me. i should have had better control.


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

But what is causing these emotions Eric?

Bailee


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

jesusmyangsthasabodycount said:


> You all are saying I have to tap into and express underlying emotions. What if its all a bunch of fear......i dont get it. express what emotions. i already feel them all the time. what possible good is expressing them going to do. it wont get them to go away.
> 
> Ive tried to deal with them in therapy. Ive told my therapist about my fears. I still feel messed up inside. I cant heal it. i dont want to feel fear anymore. i have let all this get out of control. my fear. I want to feel peace where there is fear. but i dont know how. i have let these things take over me. i should have had better control.


The only way to make fear go away is to do what you are afraid of. Or at least accept what you are afraid about.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

jesusmyangsthasabodycount said:


> why would I want to make conscious the emotions I feel under the surface...they are all pain.
> 
> Ive been tapping into it lately, a little. and all that it is, is pain. Neverending pain.
> 
> I think, I would rather keep them where they are.


There is your main problem in a nutshell. The only way is to make conscious the pain you feel underneath, it is the only way for you to get healthy. Listen to Cecils advice.



jesusmyangsthasabodycount said:


> I want to feel peace where there is fear. but i dont know how. i have let these things take over me. i should have had better control.


Too much control is largely what causes such problems in the first place, what you are prescribing yourself is to do more of what you are doing already, to do more of what caused your problems and control yourself more, what you need to do is do the opposite and try to let go of control.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

The more control you use, the less control you have


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> I think the ruminations are there as part of a defence to stop you from you feeling emotions, so in that sense they have no real significance in that what they are focusing on is not important, so in a way the best way is not to feed them any more energy by giving them any more importance, so forget them and focus outwards.


You should print this off and pin it on your bedroom door. It is so true.

When people say, 'focus outwards', some people come back and say - how can you focus outwards when you are living in a world of unreality'. It's easy (in theory - in practise it's a struggle) - carry on living like nothing is wrong. Continue with your old life. Don't let the obsessions take over - because as I've said over and over again, they keep the DR/DP alive. Kill the obsessions, kill the DR/DP. You haven't got choice if you think about it. You want to live, right?
[/quote]


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## Guest (May 2, 2007)

That is good.. Although how do you go about it if you're unable to lie to yourself? : "carry on living like nothing is wrong" < not easy when you're honest to yourself.

Thanks any how.



Martinelv said:


> You should print this off and pin it on your bedroom door. It is so true.
> 
> When people say, 'focus outwards', some people come back and say - how can you focus outwards when you are living in a world of unreality'. It's easy (in theory - in practise it's a struggle) - carry on living like nothing is wrong. Continue with your old life. Don't let the obsessions take over - because as I've said over and over again, they keep the DR/DP alive. Kill the obsessions, kill the DR/DP. You haven't got choice if you think about it. You want to live, right?


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

It's not about lying to yourself, it's about refusing to let the damned thing get its own way.

Ignore the beast as best you can, it hates it.

I can't bear bright lights but I still go and do the weekly shop; I struggle through it though, but it gets a tiny bit easier each time.

Focus on making sure you still have a worthwhile life to lead after recovery, that's what I do anyway, it keeps me determined.


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## Guest (May 2, 2007)

I spoke as if I was ?one?, you speak as if we?re of two ?our selves *and* DR/DP aka *the beast*?? Am I the puppet and the puppeteer or just of one?


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> I spoke as if I was ?one?, you speak as if we?re of two ?our selves *and* DR/DP aka *the beast*?? Am I the puppet and the puppeteer or just of one?


You are both simultaneously Darren. One of them is the real you and the other is a facade you hold up to the world. The puppet dances to the rhythm the real world wants it to, the real you wants to dance to your own rhythm.

Focus is a very important thing, but you can't ignore your issues and sweep them under the rug, you have to actually deal with them. That means accepting them and then not letting them control you. Like you guys are saying - carrying on your life despite those problems.


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## Guest (May 3, 2007)

Yes, one is of me and the other is my mask, although will the mask always be at my side all my life or do I have the ability of shattering it. My protection (mask) always seems to test the water for me? never lets me face the fear and test it myself? I, ?myself? want to test it, although I?ve no control whether I do or don?t.

I either ignore them by being a foolish child on here or play games, or I become too serious for my own good? I never hit balance? I need to hit the middle and stay there.

Thank you CECIL.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> I spoke as if I was ?one?, you speak as if we?re of two ?our selves *and* DR/DP aka *the beast*?? Am I the puppet and the puppeteer or just of one?


The lines are just blurred at the moment. I feel as though the dp/dr is a part of me at the moment, but I *believe* that it is a part of me which I can shed, with time and effort.

For now you are puppet and puppeteer at once, one day you will be able to cut those strings though (or pull the hand out of your arse :shock: ).

These are my thoughts anyway...


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

suz said:


> or pull the hand out of your arse :shock:


ROFL!! :lol:

There's many ways out there to do away with the mask Darren. For the moment it serves a purpose for you but its possible to break it down. Its a scary thing to experience the world full on and in your face, but its the only way we'll ever really feel alive.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> It's not about lying to yourself, it's about refusing to let the damned thing get its own way.
> 
> Ignore the beast as best you can, it hates it.


Spot on.


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## IMSojourner (Nov 4, 2006)

jesusmyangsthasabodycount said:


> why would I want to make conscious the emotions I feel under the surface...they are all pain.


It is precisely the suppression and repression that causes all problems. In psychotherapy, with a well-trained professional, you allow them into your consciousness, you experience them, and they don't bug you in the same way as they do now.

It is precisely the burying of emotions that should have been expressed at some other time but were not that is the culprit here. I agree entirely with Pablo on this.

I think there is a general misperception about what the unconscious is. We are literally unaware of its content in explicit terms. When we feel pain, that's just conscious awareness of what is and will forever be unconscious and hidden from us. The core stuff is really and truly totally outside of our awareness and we cannot consciously get to it. The healing itself also happens outside our awareness, which is why you need another person who knows what he or she is doing to work with you.

The healing is just as unconscious as the core pain, of which our conscious pain is just the tip of a very large iceberg. Both the core pain and the healing are hidden and not directly observable -- but both are REAL, in that a trained professional can interpret our words, our affect, our behavior, our allusions, our dreams, our body language and reflect back to us what he or she observes. Little by little, we can bring PART of our unconscious into our conscious awareness -- but never completely -- and somehow, hidden from us, our symptoms can be reduced.

Healing is HIDDEN. In a way, that's the motive behind distraction, but if there are factors preventing interaction with beauty and love, one cannot use distraction and engaging with the mystery of reality as a tool for healing.

Soj

Added: The body and mind are a unity, and when we repress emotion and do not experience it in our BODY, we suffer psychically, spiritually, emotionally -- and physically -- as anyone who has felt DP/DR knows quite well. The symptoms we report on are PHYSICAL, are they not, in many cases? We experience weirdness through our senses, in our bodily experience, and so forth. Not expressing emotions, which are always expressed in the body as well as the brain, causes all sorts of maladies.

If we allow our bodies to behave as they were created to behave -- to cry when we are hurt, for example -- we will find health. Repressing pain does nothing but assure us that the pain will never leave us. Feeling the pain in all its awfulness allows the body to behave as it was created to behave and then move on. Think of a toddler who falls down and cries. There's really not a lot of physical pain involved. The child cries and then a favorite toy is offered and the child moves on, happy again. Think of psychotherapy like that, because that -- in the final analysis -- is what it is.


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## Guest (May 7, 2007)

I?m starting to believe my own dr/dp is either something other then dr/dp or it?s at a level no one can relate too. It might be that mine is different due to my dyslexia and dyspraxic tendencies being inter linked.


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## Guest (May 7, 2007)

Someone gave a link for a site "stuck in a doorway". And I went and checked it out. I am revisiting just how much my problems are OCD....and nothing else. Keyword...and nothing else. I think it would be very cautious to enlist the help of a psychoanalytic therapist, as every source I have read says that this tends to not work well with treating OCD.

I think there is a tendency to make more of our past, our socialization by family and friends, and community, because we so deeply want to find a reason for the way we are. 
Its very confusing for me, but I think that I would do better with an anxiety specialist, an OCD specialist. As visiting that site, I am re visiting just how much my problems are infact tied to OCD.

I just don't know anymore, really. People think different things. We all have different opinions. Who is to say who is right. But at the end of the day we have to decide for ourselves. There probably were alot of unconscious factors that made me who i am today. But I think I have somehow managed to make those factors conscious, by myself. And it was painful. And it was confusing. And there are alot of what ifs. 
At some point, we just have to pick up the pieces of our lives, and just move on. Just .......move on.

Eric


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## needacure (Apr 25, 2007)

I think Janine got offended by one of the posters on the site and she just decided to leave.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Sojourner, I agree with everything you said except the part about not being able to become aware of that unconscious. Personally I believe we can continue to expand our awareness and that there's no limit to it. Though for practical purposes and for the sake of healing I think you're right.

Eric: You are right in that you have to decide for yourself. I think we've all given you enough advice by now and you have to make of it what you will. Good luck


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## Guest (May 8, 2007)

=====


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

Janine left due to a disagreement with a few members of the board. i dont know the details but it was a serious row. 
More is the pity, because she was a most insightful contributor to the site, and her book is an excellent excellent read.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

As for how to focus outwards, I think listing the triggers for worsening your anxiety and thereby recognising them and controlling them is a big step in the way out. Anxiety out of control and unchecked is the fuel for this disorder.
listing things that make you feel better and ACTING on them is also a gr8 help. ACTING on plans and written insights is hugely important. Procastination and putting things off is a huge factor in sustaining mental illness and dissatisfaction.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

widescreened said:


> Procastination and putting things off is a huge factor in sustaining mental illness and dissatisfaction.


I agree, we must all become more pro-active. It's the only way that you can move forwards with your life and hope to heal.


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## Guest (May 8, 2007)

---=====


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## Guest (May 8, 2007)

How do you know all this? Just curious.

Greg


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

Yeah John D who u anyway?
Your joining date is later than when Janine was involved with the site, unless you are someone from that era posting under a new name.

This thread may be locked, hopefully not, as Janines departure was an unresolved and unsatisfactory issue for me. I found janines advice and input to be extremely helpful. Just cause she wasnt qualified hardly dilutes her insights and hard work. I feel she had peoples best interest at heart and her book is worth getting.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Her behaviour was mystery for most of us, with some unsavoury details that shouldn't be posted here. But regardless, she's gone, she did great work on this site, but she's gone, and that's that. End of.

This post won't be locked unless this goes on and on an on an on. And the original post was asking about how to 'focus outwards'. Try and deal with that, instead of obsessing (!) about Janine. There are other people (not me! so stop PM'ing me!!  ) who are equally intelligent and have equally sensible advice to offer.


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## Guest (May 8, 2007)

Yeah I was just interested. I thought she had alot of interesting stuff to say too. But then, she might have been sketch. So who knows...

Eric


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## IMSojourner (Nov 4, 2006)

CECIL said:


> Sojourner, I agree with everything you said except the part about not being able to become aware of that unconscious. Personally I believe we can continue to expand our awareness and that there's no limit to it. Though for practical purposes and for the sake of healing I think you're right.


Cecil,

I agree. Lots can be brought into consciousness -- I guess it's more the content in its fundamental state that I meant. Anyway, it's so nice to be understood. :wink:


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