# another reason why SSRI's sucks



## nonono (Feb 2, 2009)

well, in 2005 for a 5-6 months I was on Seroxat. today I said it first time to my dentist and she was not wondering anymore about reasons why my tooth enamel is so fucking weak - she was wondering where does that hypersensitivity and damages come in my age (I'm 20). 
today I googled it and it just made me sad. I never thought that this moment of weakness in that far 2005 could impact me now. I knew that there was no sense of drinking that shit, I knew, that a pill can't save me or help me even just a little - and I was right, because - I am recovered WITHOUT any meds, and second - it really harms me now - I need to spend A LOT to keep my teeth off further damage, but - how long? luckily I still have a great big white smile, but they will never be as healthy natural how they used to be.
my dentist shared,that she has clients who lost about 40% and more of their tooth after use of SSRI's!!!
so, be careful with that. 
ok, it's just teeth. there are much more serious reasons too, why SSRI sucks. I think they're more dangerous that even benzos!


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

No doubt about that


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## Absentis (Jul 10, 2007)

That may be the case, but for some people SSRIs alleviate mental suffering and prevent them from completing suicide. I'm sure those people would prefer to accept a minor amount of tooth damage in exchange for an improved quality of life.

But perhaps you're correct. Let's criticize medication so that we can warn people with suicidal ideation that they shouldn't take SSRIs because their tooth enamel is in great danger! My god, how do psychiatrists live with themselves? Attacking defenseless enamel like that!


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

So what is your view on SSRI/SSNI?s Absentis, since you seem to be quite educated in pharmaceuticals and the brain and mental illnesses etc. I am asking because my impression is that lately there have been more and more suggestion towards the facts that they are not nearly as efficient or as safe as they are made out to be.

In my semi-educated opinion SSRI/SSNI?s and pure antipsychotics should only be used as an absolute last resort.


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

Inzom said:


> In my semi-educated opinion SSRI/SSNI?s and pure antipsychotics should only be used as an absolute last resort.


well put. i wish more people realized that.


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## Absentis (Jul 10, 2007)

Inzom said:


> So what is your view on SSRI/SSNI?s Absentis


Music to my ears. How did you know I like the sound of my own voice so much that I couldn't possibly resist hearing myself talk?



Inzom said:


> In my semi-educated opinion SSRI/SSNI?s and pure antipsychotics should only be used as an absolute last resort.


I agree. In an ideal world, psychotropics would be used when all other means have failed. (Well, not behind ECT or leeches, but definitely behind evidence based psychological treatment.) However the reality is that the mental health field is underfunded and understaffed, and SSRIs are a cheap, quick means of treating clinical depression, and they work! Sadly, they are over prescribed, often by general practitioners who are woefully under-educated in treating mental disorders, and often make poor mental health diagnoses. People are rarely told about the many other options they could pursue, but I don't believe you're asking me about that aspect. In terms of treating clinical depression, the evidence supports the efficacy and safety of using SSRIs.

The evidence we have on treating mental disorders states the following in terms of decreasing effectiveness. CBT + pills > CBT alone > pills alone > placebos > leeches > nothing. This doesn't include other treatments (like TMS or yoga) because the literature hasn't truly investigated their relationship to CBT and pills. Clinical practice disagrees with the order of effectiveness, because real world treatment with antidepressants isn't replicated in experimental research. Its simply too complex a protocol, since a patient with depression is generally given an antidepressant, and if they don't respond, the dose is increased to the max, then the next pill is tried (at all dosages) then the next etc until the patient feels better, is hospitalized, or offs themself. All this is done, and sometimes with adjunctive medication i.e. short-term benzodiazepines, an addition of a mood stabilizer, sleeping pills, a beta-blocker and so on until a patient responds. In drug studies, experimental groups that take first-line treatment non-responders are sometimes given a second condition (eg a higher dose or a different drug or combination of them) and very rarely a third condition. By now you ought to understand why the evidence we have may not reflect clinical practice; experimental conditions attempt, but often fail, to mimic clinical practice, thereby skewing results both ways (either positively or negatively).

Bearing my critiques of experimental protocol in mind, recent meta-analyses have concluded that SSRIs are slightly better than placebo in treating clinical depression. Some have misinterpreted this to mean that SSRIs don't work, when in fact they do (just not better than an active placebo). The real takeaway from these studies is that we should focus more research into placebos. If they work, doctors should damn well be using sugar pills.

As far as safety concerns go, SSRIs are some of the safest drugs used in the pharmacopoeia. Yes, there are longterm effects on the brain, but it pales in comparison to the ravishing effects of clinical depression. Its a risk that the evidence supports; the benefits outweigh the consequences.

I think I'll leave antipsychotics aside for the time being. That's a whole other discussion, as they certainly aren't as benign as SSRIs, and the illnesses they treat are quite different.

Any questions?

Edit: My position on the subject is that people criticize SSRIs to the extent that some people who really need treatment opt not to get it because of that criticism.


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## nonono (Feb 2, 2009)

I am so sorry for being perhaps incorrect to the level you laugh about me, thank you for that Absentis.
I didn't want to hurt your feelings to SSRI's. if I should correct myself for persons like you, then I need to say, that I think for me it was clear case of unnecessary prescription of that drug and there were more safe alternatives if needed.
I just wanted to tell people here about this thing happening. these are not minor dental damages - like 40% teeth fall out.
and I am even more sorry to tell you that it really gets me down, because I am afraid that the same thing can happen with my teeth and bones and I can't see financially any possibility to fix it in next years, do you understand what it can mean to me? like fuck, I am on the edge of osteoporosis and I am 20, maybe I can't work, that's a _minor damage_? so, I find it very cruel if you satirize about it, Absentis. again, thank you so much.
and yeah, I was then oh so suicidal. but I've never seen anyone who magically lost his/her suicidal notions only because of pills. I've seen a couple of over drugged folks who were _not able _ to do it anymore, but still they wanted to die. because a human being is something more than most complex chemical (im)balance, and I can't trust even someone who has studied it for more then 50 years to come and screw things up. we are stupid, we are blind and we believe we are the crown of nature. I simply don't believe western medicine. this is just my opinion, so there is no need to be rude or to laugh about my condition and the way I feel, I don't wish you the same.


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## Absentis (Jul 10, 2007)

It was not my intention to satirize or make fun of anyone; although I admittedly made light of this serious topic, and was occasionally flippant in my second post. By no means was this aimed at anyone. Nonono, I am truly sorry to hear that you're facing a debilitating condition at such a young age. It's unfortunate whenever someone is needlessly prescribed a psychoactive medication, and worse yet if it becomes a case of iatrogenesis. I completely misread the intention of your post; I reacted as if you were trying to find a reason to criticize psychiatric treatment. This happens often on other boards I frequent, and I'm usually the one that takes the role of defending western medicine so that the people who truly need it will seek out and undergo proper treatment.

I suppose I was influenced by my personal experience with serotonergic drugs and their effects on my teeth. At one point (about a year ago) I had to switch antidepressants because I was grinding my teeth at night. I suffered minor damage that probably had no long-term effects. I've also responded well to certain SSRIs in the past and, without additional pharmaco- or psycho-therapy, contributed to stopping my suicidal ideation. As much as I'd like to think that I view the literature with objectivity, I know I'm biased. And in this case, our experiences are wildly different. (And while not is probably not the best time to bring it up, I can't help but think that treatment with an SSRI is unrelated to osteoporosis. I searched a few journal databases, and I couldn't come up with any articles that linked the two. Bear in mind I'm not a physician, but only have access to a university library.)

Lastly, and I should have lead with this, my intention was never to criticize or demean you, so I would like to extend an apology to you, and I wish you good health.


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## nonono (Feb 2, 2009)

thank you, I accept it. I understand you and I wish you all the best too!


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## wael (Sep 5, 2008)

I have marginal positive effects by using Sertraline. The last couple of months their is a tendency on this board to pose only against ssri's without nuance regarding the use of it. I understand that some people don't benefit by using ssri, but some do! When I was really lost, ssri's kept me going.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Sertraline made me so...out of it and confused that I was seconds away from putting a computer-mouse in the trash, when it was supposed to go in my laptopbag. And stuff like that. Glad it works for you tho. And it works for a friend of mine aswell. But I think it?s him doing the work, not the Sertraline. He?s fcuking inhumanely resilient and determined.


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## FoXS (Nov 4, 2009)

haven't got it... what does the abbreviation SSRI/SSNI stand for?


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

SSRI , see the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_ ... _inhibitor

SNRI, see the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin- ... _inhibitor

both are types of anti-depressants


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