# Do anti-deps actually help anybody?



## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

So I am at a place in my DP/anxiety where I need to try something different. Not sure what, but whatever it is I am doing currently isn't working. The doc seems to think I am depressed. I would agree - can't see how anybody could do DP for very long without becoming depressed. 
I have tried a variety of meds in the past. I'm pretty sure I haven't given any of them a chance, as I tend to stop due to what I perceive are side effects. They make me feel wierd, which is what I am trying to NOT feel. 
Anyway, can anybody here honestly say that anti-depressant type medication has helped them in any way? Maybe not directly the DP, but have they helped with depression or anxiety? I have a feeling if I could get a handle on those two, the DP might lessen on it's own. She offered me this week's new med.....can't remember what it's called, but it is in capsule form so I said no. I want pills that I can cut into small pieces to start with, otherwise I'm sure I would stop after the first one. Figure if I ease into it I might be more likely to stay the course. So she suggested Zoloft. Tried that one before and it didn't scare me too much. Seems to me I stopped taking it because I thought it was interfering with my sleep. I'm not sleeping at all right now so I figure that won't be a problem. 
ANYway........back to the question: can anybody honestly say anti-depressant medication has helped them?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

So I am at a place in my DP/anxiety where I need to try something different. Not sure what, but whatever it is I am doing currently isn't working. The doc seems to think I am depressed. I would agree - can't see how anybody could do DP for very long without becoming depressed. 
I have tried a variety of meds in the past. I'm pretty sure I haven't given any of them a chance, as I tend to stop due to what I perceive are side effects. They make me feel wierd, which is what I am trying to NOT feel. 
Anyway, can anybody here honestly say that anti-depressant type medication has helped them in any way? Maybe not directly the DP, but have they helped with depression or anxiety? I have a feeling if I could get a handle on those two, the DP might lessen on it's own. She offered me this week's new med.....can't remember what it's called, but it is in capsule form so I said no. I want pills that I can cut into small pieces to start with, otherwise I'm sure I would stop after the first one. Figure if I ease into it I might be more likely to stay the course. So she suggested Zoloft. Tried that one before and it didn't scare me too much. Seems to me I stopped taking it because I thought it was interfering with my sleep. I'm not sleeping at all right now so I figure that won't be a problem. 
ANYway........back to the question: can anybody honestly say anti-depressant medication has helped them?


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Paxil definitely helped me to feel less moody and less anxious.

That said, I was still moody and extremely anxious.

I would have been much worse without it.

Taking it didn't fix anything.

Ambiguity supreme.

NO med is going to "work" if we are counteracting its benefits every waking minute. If we insist on self-monitoring and obsessing and holding ourselves in a tight shell of self-control, allowing only chosen shreds of authenticity to eek out of us a drop at a time....no chemical is going to be powerful enough to change that.

Take a med to: 1) feel calmer 
or
2) feel less depressed/hopeless

But....as soon as you feel a bit calmer or less depressed, you need to work hard to feel calmer still, and you need to work very hard to feel even less depressed.

Most of us are looking for a med that we can swallow and then go right back to thinking exactly like we were thinking before we took it. Let the med do the changing on us, while we resume business as usual. It will not work. Ever.

The med is the "starter kit" not the solution.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Paxil definitely helped me to feel less moody and less anxious.

That said, I was still moody and extremely anxious.

I would have been much worse without it.

Taking it didn't fix anything.

Ambiguity supreme.

NO med is going to "work" if we are counteracting its benefits every waking minute. If we insist on self-monitoring and obsessing and holding ourselves in a tight shell of self-control, allowing only chosen shreds of authenticity to eek out of us a drop at a time....no chemical is going to be powerful enough to change that.

Take a med to: 1) feel calmer 
or
2) feel less depressed/hopeless

But....as soon as you feel a bit calmer or less depressed, you need to work hard to feel calmer still, and you need to work very hard to feel even less depressed.

Most of us are looking for a med that we can swallow and then go right back to thinking exactly like we were thinking before we took it. Let the med do the changing on us, while we resume business as usual. It will not work. Ever.

The med is the "starter kit" not the solution.

Peace,
Janine


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I agree with Janine. Meds take the edge off anxiety and depression. If you find the right one, you can kind of sit back for a while and just let your brain get itself together, so it gives you the strength to get on with what you have to do, and also tackle any underlying issues.
Personally, I am used to feeling weird, and what scares me about that is that I am doing it. When a drug does it, I'm not so scared because I can say 'oh thats just the effexor, must be doing something!' and because of this dismissal of symptoms, it doesn't bother me and therefore don't notice it. 
Granted, it can make you feel artificial at times. For instance, I found that positive thoughts were just coming into my head. I was actually questioning them, my brain was trying to get on with it and it felt weird. And also when a negative thought comes in, I can start to go down that path and think oh no... but the anxiety doesn't come. And then I realise 5 minutes later that something distracted me. I have only been on it 4 weeks, and whilst I would love to give myself the credit for feeling better, its definitely a combination. I am using the time to try and rest my brain, get on with work and gently educate myself about all of this. My thought processes have become much clearer. 
I honestly think give it a go. What have you got to lose? Try to accept feeling weird for a short time, because eventually you may find that it works and you'll be glad you stuck it out. You may have to try a few before you get one that suits you.
Good luck!


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I agree with Janine. Meds take the edge off anxiety and depression. If you find the right one, you can kind of sit back for a while and just let your brain get itself together, so it gives you the strength to get on with what you have to do, and also tackle any underlying issues.
Personally, I am used to feeling weird, and what scares me about that is that I am doing it. When a drug does it, I'm not so scared because I can say 'oh thats just the effexor, must be doing something!' and because of this dismissal of symptoms, it doesn't bother me and therefore don't notice it. 
Granted, it can make you feel artificial at times. For instance, I found that positive thoughts were just coming into my head. I was actually questioning them, my brain was trying to get on with it and it felt weird. And also when a negative thought comes in, I can start to go down that path and think oh no... but the anxiety doesn't come. And then I realise 5 minutes later that something distracted me. I have only been on it 4 weeks, and whilst I would love to give myself the credit for feeling better, its definitely a combination. I am using the time to try and rest my brain, get on with work and gently educate myself about all of this. My thought processes have become much clearer. 
I honestly think give it a go. What have you got to lose? Try to accept feeling weird for a short time, because eventually you may find that it works and you'll be glad you stuck it out. You may have to try a few before you get one that suits you.
Good luck!


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Do they work? Simple answer: No


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Do they work? Simple answer: No


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## DutchMark (Aug 10, 2004)

Paxil works for me, so do they work: yes 8)


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## DutchMark (Aug 10, 2004)

Paxil works for me, so do they work: yes 8)


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## lone wolf (Aug 10, 2004)

For me antidepressant Remeron (mirtazapine) was a miracle med - it lifted me from severe depression that I had suffered for 12 years' time. Currently I'm still on Remeron 30 mg, and during these latest years I haven't experienced a trace of depression.  However - Remeron hasn't had any effect on my DP/DR, but I don't care as I'm glad enough for its effect on my many years' hell of depression, which vanished after starting the medication. Before I had tried Fluoxetin Generics (fluoxetine) and Aurorix (moclobemide), which didn't work. So I'd say antidepressants are worth to try, although the first med you try may not be the one that will work for you - thus by 'experimenting' some of them you may find the right antidepressant for you. I wish you luck!


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## lone wolf (Aug 10, 2004)

For me antidepressant Remeron (mirtazapine) was a miracle med - it lifted me from severe depression that I had suffered for 12 years' time. Currently I'm still on Remeron 30 mg, and during these latest years I haven't experienced a trace of depression.  However - Remeron hasn't had any effect on my DP/DR, but I don't care as I'm glad enough for its effect on my many years' hell of depression, which vanished after starting the medication. Before I had tried Fluoxetin Generics (fluoxetine) and Aurorix (moclobemide), which didn't work. So I'd say antidepressants are worth to try, although the first med you try may not be the one that will work for you - thus by 'experimenting' some of them you may find the right antidepressant for you. I wish you luck!


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Thanks for the responses
 
And Janine - of all the people in the whole wide world, I am the one who least thinks that a little pill can cure me. I understand I need to make major changes elsewhere........I only wish I knew how.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Thanks for the responses
 
And Janine - of all the people in the whole wide world, I am the one who least thinks that a little pill can cure me. I understand I need to make major changes elsewhere........I only wish I knew how.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Hi Sc,

I am not cured, but Paxil somehow helps me with depression and little DP. It's been almost 2 months, but 2 weeks at 20 mg.

If it can give you some hope 

Cyn xxx


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Hi Sc,

I am not cured, but Paxil somehow helps me with depression and little DP. It's been almost 2 months, but 2 weeks at 20 mg.

If it can give you some hope 

Cyn xxx


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

they helped me during the initial ultra anxious time (start of dp) but now they dont do a thing,i only take them because the head shocks are too much to handle


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

they helped me during the initial ultra anxious time (start of dp) but now they dont do a thing,i only take them because the head shocks are too much to handle


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i've been on zoloft exactly 1 month today (50mg a day) and yes it is seriously helping me. i had a horrific time getting onto it but depression, anxiety and dp are slowly edging away. in fact i took an assembly in work today which even at the best of times does my head in and i didnt have a panic attack. since you didnt have a hard time starting it before i'd give it a go. best of luck


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i've been on zoloft exactly 1 month today (50mg a day) and yes it is seriously helping me. i had a horrific time getting onto it but depression, anxiety and dp are slowly edging away. in fact i took an assembly in work today which even at the best of times does my head in and i didnt have a panic attack. since you didnt have a hard time starting it before i'd give it a go. best of luck


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

have to say it wasnt a good assembly. the kids talked through the whole thing, the vicars candleholder and candle was knocked down from the stage in the middle by kids i'd unwisely put up there and nobody got what i was trying to put across. BUT the thing is i stood alone in front of 200 kids and did that. i wouldnt have had a hope in hell a couple of weeks ago. i'm putting it down to the ads


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

have to say it wasnt a good assembly. the kids talked through the whole thing, the vicars candleholder and candle was knocked down from the stage in the middle by kids i'd unwisely put up there and nobody got what i was trying to put across. BUT the thing is i stood alone in front of 200 kids and did that. i wouldnt have had a hope in hell a couple of weeks ago. i'm putting it down to the ads


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

I agree that it is a combo of the meds and work. When I first came down with dp/dr, I was a mess and couldn't even begin to help myself. The medication got me to where I was able to do the work. Just reprogramming my brain to believe I was getting better was like the biggest thing in my recovery. I am still taking 100 mgs of Zoloft and do take the occasional Xanex.

Carla


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

I agree that it is a combo of the meds and work. When I first came down with dp/dr, I was a mess and couldn't even begin to help myself. The medication got me to where I was able to do the work. Just reprogramming my brain to believe I was getting better was like the biggest thing in my recovery. I am still taking 100 mgs of Zoloft and do take the occasional Xanex.

Carla


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

sc said:


> So I am at a place in my DP/anxiety where I need to try something different. Not sure what, but whatever it is I am doing currently isn't working. The doc seems to think I am depressed. I would agree - can't see how anybody could do DP for very long without becoming depressed.
> I have tried a variety of meds in the past. I'm pretty sure I haven't given any of them a chance, as I tend to stop due to what I perceive are side effects. They make me feel wierd, which is what I am trying to NOT feel.
> Anyway, can anybody here honestly say that anti-depressant type medication has helped them in any way? Maybe not directly the DP, but have they helped with depression or anxiety? I have a feeling if I could get a handle on those two, the DP might lessen on it's own. She offered me this week's new med.....can't remember what it's called, but it is in capsule form so I said no. I want pills that I can cut into small pieces to start with, otherwise I'm sure I would stop after the first one. Figure if I ease into it I might be more likely to stay the course. So she suggested Zoloft. Tried that one before and it didn't scare me too much. Seems to me I stopped taking it because I thought it was interfering with my sleep. I'm not sleeping at all right now so I figure that won't be a problem.
> ANYway........back to the question: can anybody honestly say anti-depressant medication has helped them?


I don't know> I tried Paxil once but it made me feel strange and increased by anxiety and DP. I agree with you about taking and cutting up the pills into very small dosage levels to see how you are going to react to them before taking the recommended dose. I know they will often say that they are going to give you the smallest dose to get started to see how you tolerate it but I have found that the smallest recommended dose if it makes me feel strange and out of sorts will increase my DP and panicky feelings immensely. And I see no reason why doctors shouldn't allow their patients to take the drugs even in homeopathic dosage levels if that will make them more comfortable about taking the drug. I think that alot of times which drugs a doctor prescribes is more an economic, even a political choice than what is going to help the patient to feel more comfortable. I take Xanax between 2-3 mgs per day and have been for many years. One of the reasons that doctors are often reluctant to prescribe the benzo drugs is (IMHO) because they have the potential of being sold on the street. And are frequently abused for non medical purposes. Also I take a beta blocker for hypertension. And I think that the beta blockers have often been prescribed for panic and anxiety as well. I tried Inderal once (often prescribed for stage fright etc) and that really made me feel wierd but there are many other beta blockers out there. Just because SSRI drugs are the vogue right now doesn't mean that there are not other classes of drugs availble that you may find helpful.

Like others here I believe that drugs may not be the ultimate answer for ones dp experiences but then again on the other hand if dp is a physical problem with brain chemistry drugs may be what is needed to correct the problem. I guess the question could become whether it is our thoughts that generates the changes in the brain or if the brain chemical imbalance is the cause of our thoughts? I go back and forth on this isssue for there are times when my dp/dr really do feel like a chemical imbalance but as far as i know the Xanax acts to soothe the brain through effecting the GABA levels throughout the central nervous system. But it is also of partciular interest to me that many members of my family, father, aunts, uncles also take maintainence levels of Xanax or similar benzo type drugs.

Anyway I can relate very much to your desire to self experiment by cutting up the pills and building up to the recommended dosage level in small increments.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

sc said:


> So I am at a place in my DP/anxiety where I need to try something different. Not sure what, but whatever it is I am doing currently isn't working. The doc seems to think I am depressed. I would agree - can't see how anybody could do DP for very long without becoming depressed.
> I have tried a variety of meds in the past. I'm pretty sure I haven't given any of them a chance, as I tend to stop due to what I perceive are side effects. They make me feel wierd, which is what I am trying to NOT feel.
> Anyway, can anybody here honestly say that anti-depressant type medication has helped them in any way? Maybe not directly the DP, but have they helped with depression or anxiety? I have a feeling if I could get a handle on those two, the DP might lessen on it's own. She offered me this week's new med.....can't remember what it's called, but it is in capsule form so I said no. I want pills that I can cut into small pieces to start with, otherwise I'm sure I would stop after the first one. Figure if I ease into it I might be more likely to stay the course. So she suggested Zoloft. Tried that one before and it didn't scare me too much. Seems to me I stopped taking it because I thought it was interfering with my sleep. I'm not sleeping at all right now so I figure that won't be a problem.
> ANYway........back to the question: can anybody honestly say anti-depressant medication has helped them?


I don't know> I tried Paxil once but it made me feel strange and increased by anxiety and DP. I agree with you about taking and cutting up the pills into very small dosage levels to see how you are going to react to them before taking the recommended dose. I know they will often say that they are going to give you the smallest dose to get started to see how you tolerate it but I have found that the smallest recommended dose if it makes me feel strange and out of sorts will increase my DP and panicky feelings immensely. And I see no reason why doctors shouldn't allow their patients to take the drugs even in homeopathic dosage levels if that will make them more comfortable about taking the drug. I think that alot of times which drugs a doctor prescribes is more an economic, even a political choice than what is going to help the patient to feel more comfortable. I take Xanax between 2-3 mgs per day and have been for many years. One of the reasons that doctors are often reluctant to prescribe the benzo drugs is (IMHO) because they have the potential of being sold on the street. And are frequently abused for non medical purposes. Also I take a beta blocker for hypertension. And I think that the beta blockers have often been prescribed for panic and anxiety as well. I tried Inderal once (often prescribed for stage fright etc) and that really made me feel wierd but there are many other beta blockers out there. Just because SSRI drugs are the vogue right now doesn't mean that there are not other classes of drugs availble that you may find helpful.

Like others here I believe that drugs may not be the ultimate answer for ones dp experiences but then again on the other hand if dp is a physical problem with brain chemistry drugs may be what is needed to correct the problem. I guess the question could become whether it is our thoughts that generates the changes in the brain or if the brain chemical imbalance is the cause of our thoughts? I go back and forth on this isssue for there are times when my dp/dr really do feel like a chemical imbalance but as far as i know the Xanax acts to soothe the brain through effecting the GABA levels throughout the central nervous system. But it is also of partciular interest to me that many members of my family, father, aunts, uncles also take maintainence levels of Xanax or similar benzo type drugs.

Anyway I can relate very much to your desire to self experiment by cutting up the pills and building up to the recommended dosage level in small increments.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

Try coming off of the xanax cold turkey and then you'll find out the real reason why doctors are reluctant in prescribing benzos. Xanax soothes the brain? LMFAO! Xanax lobotomizes the brain. The only thing xanax soothes is your craving for brain damage. If your craving brain damage, then this is the brain damage wonder drug. I think you need some education buddy. Im sure if you missed a day of your dosage then that would be plenty of education for ya. Enjoy your life in prison.

Neal


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

Try coming off of the xanax cold turkey and then you'll find out the real reason why doctors are reluctant in prescribing benzos. Xanax soothes the brain? LMFAO! Xanax lobotomizes the brain. The only thing xanax soothes is your craving for brain damage. If your craving brain damage, then this is the brain damage wonder drug. I think you need some education buddy. Im sure if you missed a day of your dosage then that would be plenty of education for ya. Enjoy your life in prison.

Neal


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## luke1979 (Aug 20, 2004)

im currently taking avanza (mirtazapine) and it hasnt helped my dp/dr much.
ive only been taking it for 5 weeks, 2 weeks at 30mg, and 3 weeks at 45mg. over last week ive found that my anxiety has lessoned a lot, that may be put down to the fact that ive been getting very involved with work and keeping my mind some what occupied, but yeah, the last week my anxiety has been good, i havnt taken any dizapan for a week, so i guess thats proof in itself, ill see how i go over the weekend, with so much spare time on my hands im interested to see if the anxiety stays away.
as far as depression goes, i still dont really feel any less depressed, as such. i have found that when im busy it's easier to sorta 'forget' things a bitt and i think that brightens my mood.
im still in half minds as to what causes dp, i think it is some kinda brain chemical problem, but i also think our thinking causes it... maybe it starts as a brain chemical problem and our thinking keeps the problem alive.
so i dont think anti-d's are going to be too effective in treating the dp itself, but if they treat the anxiety and depression associated with dp, they may help us correct our thinking, and make life more bearable.
so from me, i think im still in the trial phase of anti-d's, there may be some improvement which is promising, hopefully things will continue to get better.
Luke.


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## luke1979 (Aug 20, 2004)

im currently taking avanza (mirtazapine) and it hasnt helped my dp/dr much.
ive only been taking it for 5 weeks, 2 weeks at 30mg, and 3 weeks at 45mg. over last week ive found that my anxiety has lessoned a lot, that may be put down to the fact that ive been getting very involved with work and keeping my mind some what occupied, but yeah, the last week my anxiety has been good, i havnt taken any dizapan for a week, so i guess thats proof in itself, ill see how i go over the weekend, with so much spare time on my hands im interested to see if the anxiety stays away.
as far as depression goes, i still dont really feel any less depressed, as such. i have found that when im busy it's easier to sorta 'forget' things a bitt and i think that brightens my mood.
im still in half minds as to what causes dp, i think it is some kinda brain chemical problem, but i also think our thinking causes it... maybe it starts as a brain chemical problem and our thinking keeps the problem alive.
so i dont think anti-d's are going to be too effective in treating the dp itself, but if they treat the anxiety and depression associated with dp, they may help us correct our thinking, and make life more bearable.
so from me, i think im still in the trial phase of anti-d's, there may be some improvement which is promising, hopefully things will continue to get better.
Luke.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

I think it is an individual thing if or how antideps help.
Also how much a patient is willing to accept the effects of the meds (adaption period, change in feeling, thinking etc.)


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

I think it is an individual thing if or how antideps help.
Also how much a patient is willing to accept the effects of the meds (adaption period, change in feeling, thinking etc.)


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

Pure Narcotic said:


> Try coming off of the xanax cold turkey and then you'll find out the real reason why doctors are reluctant in prescribing benzos. Xanax soothes the brain? LMFAO! Xanax lobotomizes the brain. The only thing xanax soothes is your craving for brain damage. If your craving brain damage, then this is the brain damage wonder drug. I think you need some education buddy. Im sure if you missed a day of your dosage then that would be plenty of education for ya. Enjoy your life in prison.
> 
> Neal


Why are you sounding so "trollish" towards my post?

I have never heard or read anything about Xanax causing brain damage. Do you have references you can link here so I can become "educated?"

Also I don't plan on coming off Xanax cold turkey as this is contraindicated by the medical profession as well as contrary to common sense.

Just as a diabetic is compelled to take daily doses of insulin in order for their sugar metabolism to function properly some people in order to function well psychologically emotionally etc. need to take certain anti anxiety or anti depression drugs to get by. There is no cause for a sense of shame or self deprecation because of this.

Because a diabetic needs his daily insulin to maintain health, nobody makes snide moralizing comments about his addiction. Similarly the fact that I am addicted to Xanax (so what?) and take it everyday and have been for years, never the less, addicted or not, it has allowed me to function better and feel more comfortable with my life. That to me is what is of the greatest importance, not whether or not the drug is addictive.

As I stated in a previous post some doctors are recognising that the benzo class of drugs may be the best choice for some of their patients in coping with their DP/ Panic etc. and "Medical Political Correctness" be damned.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

Pure Narcotic said:


> Try coming off of the xanax cold turkey and then you'll find out the real reason why doctors are reluctant in prescribing benzos. Xanax soothes the brain? LMFAO! Xanax lobotomizes the brain. The only thing xanax soothes is your craving for brain damage. If your craving brain damage, then this is the brain damage wonder drug. I think you need some education buddy. Im sure if you missed a day of your dosage then that would be plenty of education for ya. Enjoy your life in prison.
> 
> Neal


Why are you sounding so "trollish" towards my post?

I have never heard or read anything about Xanax causing brain damage. Do you have references you can link here so I can become "educated?"

Also I don't plan on coming off Xanax cold turkey as this is contraindicated by the medical profession as well as contrary to common sense.

Just as a diabetic is compelled to take daily doses of insulin in order for their sugar metabolism to function properly some people in order to function well psychologically emotionally etc. need to take certain anti anxiety or anti depression drugs to get by. There is no cause for a sense of shame or self deprecation because of this.

Because a diabetic needs his daily insulin to maintain health, nobody makes snide moralizing comments about his addiction. Similarly the fact that I am addicted to Xanax (so what?) and take it everyday and have been for years, never the less, addicted or not, it has allowed me to function better and feel more comfortable with my life. That to me is what is of the greatest importance, not whether or not the drug is addictive.

As I stated in a previous post some doctors are recognising that the benzo class of drugs may be the best choice for some of their patients in coping with their DP/ Panic etc. and "Medical Political Correctness" be damned.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2004)

"Xanax soothes the brain." I have never heard such a ludicrous comment. Xanax is the most addictive drug in the world. If you take it long enough then you will just need more and more until you eventually max out and enter a state of drug toxicity. Then you are looking at months or years of withdrawal to get off the drug. How the hell is this "soothing." I am sorry, but after coming off these drugs you lose sympathy for people. These drugs put you in the worst state a human being can put in so why would you have sympathy for anyone who is not experiencing anywhere near the pain you are experiencing.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2004)

"Xanax soothes the brain." I have never heard such a ludicrous comment. Xanax is the most addictive drug in the world. If you take it long enough then you will just need more and more until you eventually max out and enter a state of drug toxicity. Then you are looking at months or years of withdrawal to get off the drug. How the hell is this "soothing." I am sorry, but after coming off these drugs you lose sympathy for people. These drugs put you in the worst state a human being can put in so why would you have sympathy for anyone who is not experiencing anywhere near the pain you are experiencing.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

dont compare your need for xanax to a diabetic needing insulin. Thats ridiculous. Diabetics need insulin to maintain their physical health. The only way you will ever really NEED xanax is if you become dependent and then if you dont take it you will have a seizure or experience hallucinations like I did. Xanax is not medicince. Its a highly addictive anxiety mask. It doesnt fix your brain. If anything it will cause functional brain damage. When you come off you will have worse rebound anxiety plus a very painful withdrawal to deal with.

Joe


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

dont compare your need for xanax to a diabetic needing insulin. Thats ridiculous. Diabetics need insulin to maintain their physical health. The only way you will ever really NEED xanax is if you become dependent and then if you dont take it you will have a seizure or experience hallucinations like I did. Xanax is not medicince. Its a highly addictive anxiety mask. It doesnt fix your brain. If anything it will cause functional brain damage. When you come off you will have worse rebound anxiety plus a very painful withdrawal to deal with.

Joe


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

PROTOCOL FOR TREATMENT OF XANAX WITHDRAWAL
By: Ronald A. Gershman, M.D.

BACKGROUND

Xanax is a triazolobenzodiazepine that is very similar to other benzodiazepines in most of its properties, but does have some properties that distinguish it from the group in general, which are specifically its anti-panic an anti-depressant properties. As an anxiolytic or anti-anxiety agent, it functions more or less indistinguishably from other benzodiazepines. In that capacity, it is a relatively short-acting anti-anxiety agent
with a half life of somewhere between 8 and 12 hours.

Xanax, when administered on a regular basis, will produce physiological dependence with a severe withdrawal syndrome that relates to both dose and duration of usage, with duration being more important than actual dosage. Higher doses will produce more rapid physiologic addiction than lower doses, but severe levels of physical addiction can occur in even the low therapeutic range of dosaging at 1 mg. or 2 mg. per day. Average length of time necessary to occur to the extent that the patient will clinically experience clearly noticeable symptoms of withdrawal is approximately four to six months at dosages between 2 mg. to 4 mg. If there is a history of addiction to benzodiazepines, an addiction can occur much more rapidly over a shorter period of time, with a more intense withdrawal.

Since Xanax is a relatively short-acting agent, the symptoms of withdrawal have a relatively rapid onset and rapidly accelerate, producing severe dysphoria and symptoms of withdrawal in the patient beginning at approximately six hours from the last dose and generally peaking at approximately 24 to 72 hours after discontinuation. What has become clinically apparent with Xanax which appears to be somewhat different than the other benzodiazepines is that the patients ability to self-detox or be able to be gradually tapered off of the medication is markedly more difficult. Thusly, once the physiologic dependence has occurred with Xanax, the ability of the patient to discontinue use successfully on their own is quite low, and medical assistance becomes of significant necessity in the majority of cases. THE WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME

The withdrawal syndrome from Xanax and other benzodiazepines are quite similar, with the exception that Xanax has a much higher incidence of panic attack and a bereavement type of emotional lability that is singularly more severe. Since the symptoms are almost all internal, with a few physical or objective manifestations, the diagnosis of it can be very difficult. Patients have a difficult time verbally describing what is occurring, and much of the descriptions often take on a quality or character reminiscent of the emotional or psychiatric problem for which they originally began taking Xanax, and is not understood or elucidated as withdrawal symptomology.

The withdrawal syndrome, though, is quite clearly different and can be easily diagnosed with a clear understanding of some of the more defining features. In the early stage of withdrawal, there is a presentation of a sense of anxiety and apprehension associated with increasing subjective sense of tremor and mild bifrontal headache. This rapidly progresses to feelings of panic-like anxiety with tachycardia and palpitations, as well as a rapidly progressing feeling of de-realization, which is an altered sense of reality, additionally associated with marked startle response and a general amplification of most sensory input. As the withdrawal syndrome progresses, there is a marked disturbance of proprioception, with difficulty in ambulation relative to feeling "dizzy" and "unsteady," needing to use reference and physical objects to steady oneself. With the proprioceptive problem increasing in severity simple acts such as swallowing, signing one's name, talking or even buttoning a shirt can become extremely difficult. many patients at this stage describe hot/cold sensations and generalized myalgia.

There is also a progession of extreme emotional lability with sudden outbursts of crying or near panic levels of anxiety and fearfulness which will have sudden onset without clear connection to external events. Associated with this are frequent hypochodriacal fears of morbid consequence from the sensations they are feeling, such as fear of heart attack or stroke. patients will also experience a type of emotional dysphoria which is very difficult for them to verbalize, but which come very close by cumulative description to a bereavement type of feeling that is very painful emotionally. Additionally, the amplification of almost all sensory information coming into the brain, other than that of taste, can produce many bizarre misinterpretation of sensory stimulation ranging from feeling one's teeth rotating in their sockets to parts of their bodies disassociating or "falling off".

As the withdrawal symptom further progresses, illusionary and hallucinatory phenomena, predominately of a visual nature, will begin to manifest themselves, initially with patterens and geometric shapes, and then into full-formed complex visual hallucinations. These also often will become associated with delusions of bodily dysfunction or discorporation. It is very frequent and common for the patient to conclude that he is having a nervous breakdown, or "going crazy" as an attempt to try to understand the process at hand, not understanding it as withdrawal phenomena. With further progression, disorientation to person and place will occur with full delirium, and eventually withdrawal will finalize with tonic-clonic major motor seizure activity, generally singular in nature, although several cases of status have been reported.

The last triad of symptoms--of hallucinosis, delirium and seizure--are classified as major symptoms of Xanax withdrawal, with the others classified as minor symptoms. The withdrawal syndrome can take from six months to two years to fully resolve and is well-documented in literature regarding this. Not all patients will experience withdrawal symptomology for that length of time, but most will have withdrawal for at least several months.

TREATMENT APPROACH

The treatment approach is focused primarily on the utilization of Tegretol, which has been shown to be extremely effective in preventing and of the major symptoms of Xanax withdrawal, as well as attenuating significantly most of the minor symptoms. The Tegretol is utilized along with Klonopin as a cross-over benzodiazepine to stabilize and to create control of withdrawal until adequate Tegretol blood levels have been achieved, then allowing one to discontinue the Klonopin. The total length of treatment will span somewhere between 10 to 30 days which, relative to the natural course of this withdrawal syndrome, actually represents a short period of time.

The first step is to estimate the total daily dose of Xanax and start the patient on an equivalent amount of Klonopin, which relates to Xanax on a ration of 2 mg. Klonopin to 1 mg. of Xanax. Thusly, a patient with a daily dose of 4 mg. of Xanax would be given a single bed time dose of Klonopin at 8 mg., which will quickly and effectively stabilize them and prevent further symptoms of withdrawal. Additionally, the patient is started on Tegretol at 50 mg. three times a day and is increased by 50 mg. increments until a total daily dose of 400 mg. daily, in divided doses q.i.d., is achieved, at which the first Tegretol blood level will be ascertained, It will generally take four to seven days to reach therapeutic blood levels.

Since Klonopin has an extremely long half life of 40 to 60 hours, the patient is well covered with a single bed time dosaging, and this benzodiazepine has shown little abuse potential for drug seeking behavior and provides smooth, steady serum levels during the course of treatment. Generally, beginning day 2 or 5, the dose of Klonopin is decreased as the dose of Tegretol being increased. Since therapeutic levels of Tegretol can often be achieved while the patient is being titrated to a therapeutic blood level of Tegretol, the Klonopin is reduced at a rate of approximately 1 mg. per day. generally, with doses in excess of 6 to 8 mg. per day of Klonopin, there is enough time with this rate of withdrawal to slowly establish a Tegretol level without neurotoxicity during the cross-over, and there is little probability of any breakthrough major symptoms of withdrawal due to Klonopins very long half life. Since both Klonopin and Tegretol are very potent anti-convulsants, the incidence of seizure has been essentially 0 in over 300 cases that we have treated so far. The Klonopin is thusly being decreased at 1 mg. daily until one reaches 1 mg., at which point decreases are then done by 0.25 mg. increments anywhere from once a day, on average, once a week.

It is important to understand that Tegretol has a significant impact on auto-induction of liver enzymes, and initially, for the first exposure to Tegretol, a dose as low as 200 mg. may produce a blood level in the therapeutic range of somewhere between 4 to 10 mcg/L necessary for control of seizure and withdrawal; but as liver enzymes are induced, increasing doses will be necessary over the necessary weeks to maintain an adequate blood level. The average dose eventually that is achieved in steady state with induction of liver enzymes is somewhere between 400 mg. and 800 mg. daily, with an average of approximately 600 mg. Additionally, the half life of Tegretol will be essentially 20 to 26 hours when initially used, but will progressively shorten as liver enzyme induction takes place, approaching a half life as short as six to eight hours and requiring multiple daily dosaging at that time.

The major complications with Tegretol are neurotoxic effects when blood level will be generally too high, or above the level of 10 mcg/L, or due to an accumulation of its first order epoxide metabolite. These complications of neurotoxicity present themselves as nauseousness and vomiting, significant sedation, dizziness and dyscoordination. Also frequently reported is a sense of significant gastric retention with delayed gastric emptying. Although the side effects of Tegretol can be successfully treated with Reglan, Tigan and/or Antivert, it is far better to slowly titrate the dose and avoid developing these side effects. The presense of them can be ascertained to represent blood levels that are unacceptably high and to slow the rate of increasing of the Tegretol dosage. There is a small percentage of the population of people who simply do not tolerate Tegretol because of the GI side effects.

As noted, Tegretol is almost 100% effective in controlling major symptoms of Xanax withdrawal, but will very in its effectiveness in attenuating the minor symptoms, thus requiring sometimes slower titration down off the Klonopin. It is infrequent that one needs to go slower than once a week in the 0.25 mg decreases, and often one can be decreased on a daily basis without symptoms of withdrawal, but at times the decrease may have to be as slow as once a month. Once the patient is off the Klonopin and on the Tegretol in a steady state basis, the patient is maintained on Tegretol for approximately one to two months after achieving this state, and then tapered off of the Tegretol over a four to five day period of time. Should there be a recurrence of withdrawal symptomology, then the Tegretol is reinstated for an additional month, and then the process repeated.

CBC and checks of white blood count should be done periodically while the patient is on Tegretol. There often will be mild leukopenia with white count at 3000 to 4000 found with Tegretol, which is benign. The incidence of agranulocytosis is extremely rare with tegretol, and there is support in the literature for the lack of need for rigorous routine white count testing while on this medication. Prudence, though, would require some periodic evaluation of white count while the patient is being maintained on the tegretol.

Once the patient has been successfully detoxed off Xanax and/or the Tegretol, the issues of underlying conditions, such as Agoraphobia, Panic Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, or Major Depressive Disorder, often must still be dealt with. Whereas Buspar is of no utility in managing Xanax withdrawal or Xanax-generated anxiety, it can be quite helpful for anxiety that is non-benzodiazepine withdrawal related, and patients, after completion of withdrawal, can be, and often have been, successfully maintained on Buspar at 40 to 60 mg. daily as a final dose with good control of underlying anxiety. Treatment of Panic Disorder and/or Agoraphobia will often require a tricyclic anti-depressant in conjunction with Buspar, with essentially good success. The introduction of the anti-depressant can be begun at the time withdrawal is started, or can be deferred to a later date, depending on the intensity and frequency of panic attacks that the patient may be having.

It should be kept in mind that a patient with underlying Agoraphobia or Panic Disorder will have a marked exacerbation of his/her pre-existing illness during the course of withdrawal.It is often then of necessity to start an anti-depressant to stop panic attacks in order to get the patient through the withdrawal process successfully. The presence of a tricyclic will not interfere materially in any way with the medications for withdrawal.

Patients having gone through this process will generally need a significant degree of emotional support and constant re-assurance during the withdrawal stage that they are indeed in withdrawal and are not suffering some morbid physical or psychiatric disorder other than the withdrawal process. Weekly visits with medication management, plus frequent phone consultation generally is what is required and generally produces a successful outcome on an outpatient basis. In more severe cases, and in situatioons where time or efficiency is paramount, then inpatient treatment is the most effective route to be travelled, and the detoxification can be accomplished much more rapidly in that modality.

It is critically important during the course of this that the patient refrain from use of all psychoactive drugs, particularly alcohol and stimulants, as well as over the counter preparations that contain pseudoephedrine and phenylpropanolamine. Lastly, caffeine must be avoided by the patient for a period of approximately six months to one year. Caffeine is a benzodiazepine antagonist and will occupy the receptor site, blocking Klonopin or other agents and intensify withdrawal markedly. Innocuous or inadvertant ingestion of high doses of caffeine is often a major complication to the withdrawal process, and patient education in this area is very important, as well as reassurance should it happen that it will wear offwithin a relatively short period of time.

Lastly, for patients who have severe symptoms of tachycardia or palpitations as an attendant withdrawal symptom, the addition of a beta blocker sich as Atenolol at 50 mg. q. day is highly effective in stopping this and generally does not need to be continued for more than 4 to 6 weeks.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

PROTOCOL FOR TREATMENT OF XANAX WITHDRAWAL
By: Ronald A. Gershman, M.D.

BACKGROUND

Xanax is a triazolobenzodiazepine that is very similar to other benzodiazepines in most of its properties, but does have some properties that distinguish it from the group in general, which are specifically its anti-panic an anti-depressant properties. As an anxiolytic or anti-anxiety agent, it functions more or less indistinguishably from other benzodiazepines. In that capacity, it is a relatively short-acting anti-anxiety agent
with a half life of somewhere between 8 and 12 hours.

Xanax, when administered on a regular basis, will produce physiological dependence with a severe withdrawal syndrome that relates to both dose and duration of usage, with duration being more important than actual dosage. Higher doses will produce more rapid physiologic addiction than lower doses, but severe levels of physical addiction can occur in even the low therapeutic range of dosaging at 1 mg. or 2 mg. per day. Average length of time necessary to occur to the extent that the patient will clinically experience clearly noticeable symptoms of withdrawal is approximately four to six months at dosages between 2 mg. to 4 mg. If there is a history of addiction to benzodiazepines, an addiction can occur much more rapidly over a shorter period of time, with a more intense withdrawal.

Since Xanax is a relatively short-acting agent, the symptoms of withdrawal have a relatively rapid onset and rapidly accelerate, producing severe dysphoria and symptoms of withdrawal in the patient beginning at approximately six hours from the last dose and generally peaking at approximately 24 to 72 hours after discontinuation. What has become clinically apparent with Xanax which appears to be somewhat different than the other benzodiazepines is that the patients ability to self-detox or be able to be gradually tapered off of the medication is markedly more difficult. Thusly, once the physiologic dependence has occurred with Xanax, the ability of the patient to discontinue use successfully on their own is quite low, and medical assistance becomes of significant necessity in the majority of cases. THE WITHDRAWAL SYNDROME

The withdrawal syndrome from Xanax and other benzodiazepines are quite similar, with the exception that Xanax has a much higher incidence of panic attack and a bereavement type of emotional lability that is singularly more severe. Since the symptoms are almost all internal, with a few physical or objective manifestations, the diagnosis of it can be very difficult. Patients have a difficult time verbally describing what is occurring, and much of the descriptions often take on a quality or character reminiscent of the emotional or psychiatric problem for which they originally began taking Xanax, and is not understood or elucidated as withdrawal symptomology.

The withdrawal syndrome, though, is quite clearly different and can be easily diagnosed with a clear understanding of some of the more defining features. In the early stage of withdrawal, there is a presentation of a sense of anxiety and apprehension associated with increasing subjective sense of tremor and mild bifrontal headache. This rapidly progresses to feelings of panic-like anxiety with tachycardia and palpitations, as well as a rapidly progressing feeling of de-realization, which is an altered sense of reality, additionally associated with marked startle response and a general amplification of most sensory input. As the withdrawal syndrome progresses, there is a marked disturbance of proprioception, with difficulty in ambulation relative to feeling "dizzy" and "unsteady," needing to use reference and physical objects to steady oneself. With the proprioceptive problem increasing in severity simple acts such as swallowing, signing one's name, talking or even buttoning a shirt can become extremely difficult. many patients at this stage describe hot/cold sensations and generalized myalgia.

There is also a progession of extreme emotional lability with sudden outbursts of crying or near panic levels of anxiety and fearfulness which will have sudden onset without clear connection to external events. Associated with this are frequent hypochodriacal fears of morbid consequence from the sensations they are feeling, such as fear of heart attack or stroke. patients will also experience a type of emotional dysphoria which is very difficult for them to verbalize, but which come very close by cumulative description to a bereavement type of feeling that is very painful emotionally. Additionally, the amplification of almost all sensory information coming into the brain, other than that of taste, can produce many bizarre misinterpretation of sensory stimulation ranging from feeling one's teeth rotating in their sockets to parts of their bodies disassociating or "falling off".

As the withdrawal symptom further progresses, illusionary and hallucinatory phenomena, predominately of a visual nature, will begin to manifest themselves, initially with patterens and geometric shapes, and then into full-formed complex visual hallucinations. These also often will become associated with delusions of bodily dysfunction or discorporation. It is very frequent and common for the patient to conclude that he is having a nervous breakdown, or "going crazy" as an attempt to try to understand the process at hand, not understanding it as withdrawal phenomena. With further progression, disorientation to person and place will occur with full delirium, and eventually withdrawal will finalize with tonic-clonic major motor seizure activity, generally singular in nature, although several cases of status have been reported.

The last triad of symptoms--of hallucinosis, delirium and seizure--are classified as major symptoms of Xanax withdrawal, with the others classified as minor symptoms. The withdrawal syndrome can take from six months to two years to fully resolve and is well-documented in literature regarding this. Not all patients will experience withdrawal symptomology for that length of time, but most will have withdrawal for at least several months.

TREATMENT APPROACH

The treatment approach is focused primarily on the utilization of Tegretol, which has been shown to be extremely effective in preventing and of the major symptoms of Xanax withdrawal, as well as attenuating significantly most of the minor symptoms. The Tegretol is utilized along with Klonopin as a cross-over benzodiazepine to stabilize and to create control of withdrawal until adequate Tegretol blood levels have been achieved, then allowing one to discontinue the Klonopin. The total length of treatment will span somewhere between 10 to 30 days which, relative to the natural course of this withdrawal syndrome, actually represents a short period of time.

The first step is to estimate the total daily dose of Xanax and start the patient on an equivalent amount of Klonopin, which relates to Xanax on a ration of 2 mg. Klonopin to 1 mg. of Xanax. Thusly, a patient with a daily dose of 4 mg. of Xanax would be given a single bed time dose of Klonopin at 8 mg., which will quickly and effectively stabilize them and prevent further symptoms of withdrawal. Additionally, the patient is started on Tegretol at 50 mg. three times a day and is increased by 50 mg. increments until a total daily dose of 400 mg. daily, in divided doses q.i.d., is achieved, at which the first Tegretol blood level will be ascertained, It will generally take four to seven days to reach therapeutic blood levels.

Since Klonopin has an extremely long half life of 40 to 60 hours, the patient is well covered with a single bed time dosaging, and this benzodiazepine has shown little abuse potential for drug seeking behavior and provides smooth, steady serum levels during the course of treatment. Generally, beginning day 2 or 5, the dose of Klonopin is decreased as the dose of Tegretol being increased. Since therapeutic levels of Tegretol can often be achieved while the patient is being titrated to a therapeutic blood level of Tegretol, the Klonopin is reduced at a rate of approximately 1 mg. per day. generally, with doses in excess of 6 to 8 mg. per day of Klonopin, there is enough time with this rate of withdrawal to slowly establish a Tegretol level without neurotoxicity during the cross-over, and there is little probability of any breakthrough major symptoms of withdrawal due to Klonopins very long half life. Since both Klonopin and Tegretol are very potent anti-convulsants, the incidence of seizure has been essentially 0 in over 300 cases that we have treated so far. The Klonopin is thusly being decreased at 1 mg. daily until one reaches 1 mg., at which point decreases are then done by 0.25 mg. increments anywhere from once a day, on average, once a week.

It is important to understand that Tegretol has a significant impact on auto-induction of liver enzymes, and initially, for the first exposure to Tegretol, a dose as low as 200 mg. may produce a blood level in the therapeutic range of somewhere between 4 to 10 mcg/L necessary for control of seizure and withdrawal; but as liver enzymes are induced, increasing doses will be necessary over the necessary weeks to maintain an adequate blood level. The average dose eventually that is achieved in steady state with induction of liver enzymes is somewhere between 400 mg. and 800 mg. daily, with an average of approximately 600 mg. Additionally, the half life of Tegretol will be essentially 20 to 26 hours when initially used, but will progressively shorten as liver enzyme induction takes place, approaching a half life as short as six to eight hours and requiring multiple daily dosaging at that time.

The major complications with Tegretol are neurotoxic effects when blood level will be generally too high, or above the level of 10 mcg/L, or due to an accumulation of its first order epoxide metabolite. These complications of neurotoxicity present themselves as nauseousness and vomiting, significant sedation, dizziness and dyscoordination. Also frequently reported is a sense of significant gastric retention with delayed gastric emptying. Although the side effects of Tegretol can be successfully treated with Reglan, Tigan and/or Antivert, it is far better to slowly titrate the dose and avoid developing these side effects. The presense of them can be ascertained to represent blood levels that are unacceptably high and to slow the rate of increasing of the Tegretol dosage. There is a small percentage of the population of people who simply do not tolerate Tegretol because of the GI side effects.

As noted, Tegretol is almost 100% effective in controlling major symptoms of Xanax withdrawal, but will very in its effectiveness in attenuating the minor symptoms, thus requiring sometimes slower titration down off the Klonopin. It is infrequent that one needs to go slower than once a week in the 0.25 mg decreases, and often one can be decreased on a daily basis without symptoms of withdrawal, but at times the decrease may have to be as slow as once a month. Once the patient is off the Klonopin and on the Tegretol in a steady state basis, the patient is maintained on Tegretol for approximately one to two months after achieving this state, and then tapered off of the Tegretol over a four to five day period of time. Should there be a recurrence of withdrawal symptomology, then the Tegretol is reinstated for an additional month, and then the process repeated.

CBC and checks of white blood count should be done periodically while the patient is on Tegretol. There often will be mild leukopenia with white count at 3000 to 4000 found with Tegretol, which is benign. The incidence of agranulocytosis is extremely rare with tegretol, and there is support in the literature for the lack of need for rigorous routine white count testing while on this medication. Prudence, though, would require some periodic evaluation of white count while the patient is being maintained on the tegretol.

Once the patient has been successfully detoxed off Xanax and/or the Tegretol, the issues of underlying conditions, such as Agoraphobia, Panic Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, or Major Depressive Disorder, often must still be dealt with. Whereas Buspar is of no utility in managing Xanax withdrawal or Xanax-generated anxiety, it can be quite helpful for anxiety that is non-benzodiazepine withdrawal related, and patients, after completion of withdrawal, can be, and often have been, successfully maintained on Buspar at 40 to 60 mg. daily as a final dose with good control of underlying anxiety. Treatment of Panic Disorder and/or Agoraphobia will often require a tricyclic anti-depressant in conjunction with Buspar, with essentially good success. The introduction of the anti-depressant can be begun at the time withdrawal is started, or can be deferred to a later date, depending on the intensity and frequency of panic attacks that the patient may be having.

It should be kept in mind that a patient with underlying Agoraphobia or Panic Disorder will have a marked exacerbation of his/her pre-existing illness during the course of withdrawal.It is often then of necessity to start an anti-depressant to stop panic attacks in order to get the patient through the withdrawal process successfully. The presence of a tricyclic will not interfere materially in any way with the medications for withdrawal.

Patients having gone through this process will generally need a significant degree of emotional support and constant re-assurance during the withdrawal stage that they are indeed in withdrawal and are not suffering some morbid physical or psychiatric disorder other than the withdrawal process. Weekly visits with medication management, plus frequent phone consultation generally is what is required and generally produces a successful outcome on an outpatient basis. In more severe cases, and in situatioons where time or efficiency is paramount, then inpatient treatment is the most effective route to be travelled, and the detoxification can be accomplished much more rapidly in that modality.

It is critically important during the course of this that the patient refrain from use of all psychoactive drugs, particularly alcohol and stimulants, as well as over the counter preparations that contain pseudoephedrine and phenylpropanolamine. Lastly, caffeine must be avoided by the patient for a period of approximately six months to one year. Caffeine is a benzodiazepine antagonist and will occupy the receptor site, blocking Klonopin or other agents and intensify withdrawal markedly. Innocuous or inadvertant ingestion of high doses of caffeine is often a major complication to the withdrawal process, and patient education in this area is very important, as well as reassurance should it happen that it will wear offwithin a relatively short period of time.

Lastly, for patients who have severe symptoms of tachycardia or palpitations as an attendant withdrawal symptom, the addition of a beta blocker sich as Atenolol at 50 mg. q. day is highly effective in stopping this and generally does not need to be continued for more than 4 to 6 weeks.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2004)

I would think the title of this thread might give a hint as to the intended topic. Please keep the comments on point. If you want to discuss something else, such as benzos - start another thread.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2004)

I would think the title of this thread might give a hint as to the intended topic. Please keep the comments on point. If you want to discuss something else, such as benzos - start another thread.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Geee.... I guess this is the only thread that has gotten away from the original topic. Its never needed moderating before, but I guess its a good thing your are doing your job. You gotta give us a little credit...were at least not talking about our love life???


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Geee.... I guess this is the only thread that has gotten away from the original topic. Its never needed moderating before, but I guess its a good thing your are doing your job. You gotta give us a little credit...were at least not talking about our love life???


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi John,

I just wanted to interject that benzo use discussion can get people on a roll. Please do not take it as if you were the only one to receive such immediate slamming. As you can see, there are differing opinions and this always becomes a heated topic.

Anyway, I just did not want you to think that people on the site were so abrupt with just any post. Mainly this and religion gets them going. Do stick around though as there are other topics where courteous replies are the norm.

Hope to see you around here again.
terri


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi John,

I just wanted to interject that benzo use discussion can get people on a roll. Please do not take it as if you were the only one to receive such immediate slamming. As you can see, there are differing opinions and this always becomes a heated topic.

Anyway, I just did not want you to think that people on the site were so abrupt with just any post. Mainly this and religion gets them going. Do stick around though as there are other topics where courteous replies are the norm.

Hope to see you around here again.
terri


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2004)

I tried .............

Dakota Joe closes still another thread. And as a reminder Mr. B. - further threatening p.m.'s sent by somebody hiding behind a computer screen, such as yourself, will be forwarded to Revelation. Then you will be in the market for a different Internet support group to spew your hate on.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2004)

I tried .............

Dakota Joe closes still another thread. And as a reminder Mr. B. - further threatening p.m.'s sent by somebody hiding behind a computer screen, such as yourself, will be forwarded to Revelation. Then you will be in the market for a different Internet support group to spew your hate on.


----------

