# EVERYONE COME HERE!: reason 4 dp breakthrough!!!!! :shock:



## bbsan (Nov 7, 2005)

I think I've cracked it. All that deep loud thinking has finally started paying off. Dp, just like it becomes screwy with florescent lighting (u all said it too) has to do with lighting- a lot of forms. Are you guys on the computer a lot? I'm sure that if I looked back on someones previous post on what jobs we'd do we find a lot of it has to do with computers (students for assignments & essays etc, workers for computer programmers, web designers whatever). Or it could just be you do it on your spare time if your job doesnt require it.

TVs, a lot of people here have expressed dificulties when watching tv: dp gets worse to some. ESPECIALLY IN MOVIE THEATRES! we become zombies! right? well thats another form of light.

I think we should do an experiment (but it may not be possible to some) and try to MINIMIZE our time on computer, tv, or movie theatres, or florescent lighting. Best if not at all. It'll be hard, but its worth the shot to help all dpers!

BTW dp is not only a punishment and a body sign of too much bad light, but it is also a sort of, stay with me here, gift from God. Think about it. You wouldn't have even appreciated life half as much if you were always completely alive. You know what I mean? Once dp disappears we'd be in a small Heaven!  Imagine that. So dp is not only a terrible curse, but a gift. Hard to say when you've got it, but your mind is already working overtime anyways so you might think about it. :lol:

Am I right?


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

Wow

In my case, i honestly believe you're 100% accurate

Because i have been an agoraphobic for a while (room bound from panic disorder), and ive been on the computer all day for like 2 - 3 years, i have a dim room and i keep tv on all day.. and DP seemed to have developed after the lighting in my room got dim (i changed rooms from a well lit basement to a little room) and i became more an more sucked into the computer

damn.. i dont know what to think, maybe it is just i need a rest from the computer and to get better lighting. Lmao, that would be great huh? I'd owe you my soul

Excellent thread

PS, when i leave my room, DP seems to be 99% worse because im out of my element and everything changes.. for instance, i dont hear the sound of the loud fan, or the tv, or the computer running etc etc and it feels really weird and i get a ringing in my ears


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## bbsan (Nov 7, 2005)

gee, thx Hibernation. It sounds like you're in a tough situation there. Can you get out of it? Try the strike thing if you can. Read books, try to see friends, but iscolation is the worst for dp. It may take a while but please try. Good luck!


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

Sounds worth investigating


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## bbsan (Nov 7, 2005)

lol a man of few words Mr computer programmer! 
hope to talk to you soon

keep up telling me what u think!


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

This has a good point to it. Thats all i have to say.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

We're all sensitive to flickering, artificial lights for the same reason that epileptic people get seizures from blinking lights, because the same region of our brains is malfunctioning, the temporal lobe. simply avoiding the lights won't fix the problem in the lobes, that wasn't what triggered it in the first place. But you're right in concluding that it will make you feel less dp'ed. lots of cured people list staying away form computers/TVs as one coping technique, but it's not enough alone to completely cure DP.

I didn't watch TV or go to the movies for like 8 months and lived in a dim apartment for over a year now, it helps but I'm still dp'ed.

You should look into Homeskooled's many posts on temporal lobe problems, and the use of anti-convulsants like Lamictal to treat them.

peace,
rula


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I think that you could be on to something. Perhaps we're all too "visual" in our approach instead of relying on a strong emotional foundation. I just came back from a vacation and the different visual environment and landmarks stripped me of my identity somewhat.


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

Too bad I pretty much have to be in front of the computer all day at work. Can't really do anything about that! Yes, I get on it too much at home in the evenings, but I like to talk to people on here. And yes the lighting bothers me as well and the "change" in scenery. But I can't just find a perfect setting, with perfect lighting, no computer and no TV and live in it for the rest of my life. Ya know?


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## brett88 (Sep 21, 2005)

I wish I could escape the flourescent lighting and computers. Unfortunately though, im still in high school and i have to stay under those goddamn lights for 5 hours a day, working on a computer half the time.
I do agree with you though that lighting makes it worse. Due to my DR/DP i was homeschooled for 6 months. My condition improved during those six months that id escaped the 5 hours of torture that i had to endure 5 days a week, but eventually my mom made me go back to school to give it another shot. Within about a month the DP/DR (DR level especially) was back to its horrific intensity. 
Now alls I have to look forward to is the weekends. But at least I only have one more year left of school!


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## bedina (Nov 20, 2005)

Hey Bbsan,

I think You're absolutely right! 
Before I had my first DP/DR-ed very strong and horrible panic attack, I was sitting in front of the computer the whole day, and every day for months. It was not my job, I only liked surfing in the net. 
My TV also was switched on a lot, I didn't always stared at, it just made an ambient noise while I was reading/playing in front of the computer. 
(anyway my eyes got worse because of the comp., they became tired at nights and I have difficultes with focusing)

Another thing, that DP/DR is a "punishment" or something is I think true too. I was thinking about it a lot. I am now 25 and I had everything what I wanted in my whole life. Friends, loud social life, huge parties, drugs, tons of boyfriends, health, happy family, money, new cars, own horse, good schools, high IQ, attractive outlook etc. 
But I was too lazy to do anything meanful! I mean I was always doing only my hobbies. I made my diplom last year and I didn't go to work after, I helped only a very little in my father's firm. So I woke up every day at 10-11, then I sat down in front of my comp, then I went to ride my horse and at the evenings I met my boyfriend or my friends. That was my lazy life for 1,5 year.

Since I have this DP/DR, I know, that I had too good life before, and I didn' honoured it. 
Now I have this f* DP/DR and I know now, how ingrateful I was.... 
I started working in my father's firm a lot, I try to help my mum more and I am forcing myself to do as many meaninful activities as I can! 
With this awful DP/DR, everything is so hard... and so unenjoyable... 
But I have to do them, and maybe one day I will be "myself" again!


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## chiara (Nov 5, 2005)

you ARE 100% correct. When all this started for me it was because I was working non stop on the computer for 8 hours in a horrible posture position mind you and really did a bad job on my neck as well.
The first thing the doctor told me was, take a break from the computer. One hour a day max. Also no tv for a while..
I am 99% better now I can almost say 99.9%. I really miss chatting with my friends overseas though. 
I only stay on for half an hour though max and it does help I have even mentioned that here a few times too.
ALso never sit for hours at a time at the computer and then go watch tv for more hours!
Im glad you are feeling better!


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## chiara (Nov 5, 2005)

forgot to say..it DID help me staying away from the computer but I also had to reprogram my brain to get out of the panic attacks and agoraphobia- it was very hard with no medication or physciatric help basically I stuck it out and hoped for it to go away. Im still a bit unsure of myself but I am 100000 times better and Im not in the looney bin so I guess I did something right!
Gotta get of the computer now!


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## qbsbrown (Aug 18, 2004)

Do i think that different types of lighting can aggrivate and irritate this condition and anxiety as a whole (even trigger DP)? Absolutely. Do i think it's the cause/root? Absolutely not.

Of course people should spend as little time watching tv and on the computer. Just as everyone should excercise, have a healthy diet, stay away from alcohol and stimulants,,,,.....etc. etc...etc...

There are plenty of beneficial lifestyle changes people can make. This is one.

With all due respect, this is a VERY OLD topic, do searches and reasearch on this site and on the subject, it's probably been brought up hundreds of times. This is nothing new people!!

Have an EEG done if you think it's the cause. Mine were all negative.

Here's a good quote from a fellow member concerning this topic.

"On a neurobiological level, an enormous amount of light like this is overstimulating the visual cortex of your brain and this is a fact. Because the sensory and emotional sysems are connected (Example: Ever have a bad smell make you feel sick, a sound make you chill, and ever pay attention to how advertisements have the colors they do? You can check the research on colors and emotions (the advertising business has put their dollars into this topic, but it is obvious: Ever see a brown background for a toothpaste ad? No, it is white.), and off the top of my head I remember blue being the color that was tested to be most calming,).

Overstimulation of one system can effect multiple systems and consequently overstimulate systems related to these DP symptoms. Exactly how this is mapped out? We do not know.

I think my best advice is to watch out for contrast. If you enter a bright supermarket after being in the dark, you have an initial stimulus load on your visual systems, whereas if you went from the sunlit outdoors to that same supermarket, your already light adapted neurons are not going to have such a shock in stimuli. Perhaps it is this shock[not taken literally] that could put some people over the edge with panic, etc. and cause problems."


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## Inflammed (Aug 10, 2004)

I agree 100%

Most of my strong DR attacks were triggered by light, abusive computer use or mid-day sunlight.

May I suggest to add with your theory, CNS !
Central Nervous System...

The eyes are filled with nerves and directly linked to our CNS, therefore, any kinda stress in the body would induce DPDR.
When a *normal* person doesnt sleep well for a few nights, well, the next day their vision is somwhat different, but us, it throws us into DPDR.

To add to your theory...
I was playing Unreal Tournament 2004 at work with my collegues around 16h30 at the end of the day, with my boss and everyone, half-an hour later...
I ran to my car, I was so disoriented, I got very scared and drove for a few minutes...
That was a sure trigger...
It happened to me 2 times, 2 huge DR attacks where I tought I was dying because I coulndt focus or see clearly anymore, always after playing 3D shooting video games.

Yesterday I was driving, the bright sun right in my face for 15 minutes, you know the blinding kinda sunlight, I got home and couldnt ever reckognise my own room, everything looked so different and far away, I could see clearly, but differently...

I've been diagnosted with a depression lately, and I know it's true.
My sleep pattern have changed...well all the symptoms...and guess what ?
I CANT even watch Tv or stay more than 5 minutes in front of my PC.

Night Clubs, Theaters, Restaurants (light dimmers), snowy days with sunlight, roads with intermittant sunlight (shadow, light, shadow light)
So many things, thats why someplaces I we feel very good and others like hell...
Somtimes I feel so bad, I think I'm dying there, I just change room or leave where I am and suddenly feel better...

Light, light and movement, and CNS...

Thank you for sharing Bbsan...
It eases my mind (eyes) =)


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2005)

Wow, all of this brought me back to the EXACT day when i first got DP and what caused it

Don't mind if i elaborate.. lol

well, i always had panic attacks and an anxiety disorder, so i would stay in a lot on the computer in the basement which was really dim because the lights would always go out, then one day my dad got sick of changing light bulbs and got those fluorescent lights that last for like 5 years but give off a really weird orange tint.. and that day i felt really strange an my eyes felt fuzzy and i started feeling disoriented and anxiety ridden

To make a long story short, my dad caused DP with his fucking bright idea of getting fluorescent lights in a room that i would spend about a month straight in.


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

Again, I agree that lighting/computers/TV, etc can affect DP/anxiety/Depression, but I don't think it's the cause. I think it makes me worse at times, but I don't think its the cause. I do sit in front of a computer pretty much 8 hours a day. The only time I am away from it is when I get up and go to the bathroom or go to lunch or go get something off the printer or go chat with someone. That's the only time. It sucks, but I can't keep my job unless I am writing emails or looking at resumes on the computer. Sure I am on the phone some, but not really that long that takes me away from the computer. Then in the evening when I get home from work and working out, I am on the computer because I live by myself and I like to talk to people on IM. I KNOW I need to get away from the computer, but it's hard with work and then living by myself. I kinna feel addicted to the computer in a way.

Kelson


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

qbsbrown said:


> With all due respect, this is a VERY OLD topic, do searches and reasearch on this site and on the subject, it's probably been brought up hundreds of times. This is nothing new people!!


guys, seriously, this topic comes up about as often as "I think dp'ed people are of higher intelligence than the other sheeples". read gbsbrown's post again and again, cuz he phrased it much better than I did. If I go eat a pound of sugar or drink 4 cups of coffee right now my DP/DR is going to shoot up through the roof, but that doesn't mean either is the _cause_. lighting is just ONE of many *stimulants* that are best avoided. If it seems like a lot of us sat in front of computers and watched a lot of TV that's only because it's the kind of world we live in, that's all. Think of all the healthy people in the world who are doing those exact same things every single day. DP/DR is unfortunately physiologically much more complicated than that.


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## argenys (Dec 31, 2005)

Hello rula baby!...how you been?....you also running from me?....lol..it seems that people just dont want help nowadays, you tell them to stop the meds and they are soo affraid that they avoid such things!...

very true thoguh, it's proven that people with dp/dr have high IQ's, and also true that lighting isnt a especialy cause of dp/dr, lighting is a stimulant, just like coffe and sugar...if you are looking for a physiological reason for dp/dr it's adrenalin, so anyhting that would stimualt this would make you worse, even exercise sometimes, also, most people with dp/dr are known to have a bit of hypoglecimia, so eating every four hours is crucial, also because of the adrenalin........i just made a thread, i hope people will look into it...im soo tired of watching people suffering for no reason, i desided to join and make a thread today because one of my friends that also visits the benzo forum i go to, is really bad, and he posted something from this site that was just crazy....and it was this thread..lol.............

I still want to talk to you rula.........last time i had some pretty nasty paxil crap going on, but now im ok....

Pascual


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## bbsan (Nov 7, 2005)

from what you guys are saying some of you believe it, some of you don't.That's ok. I'm in psychology in college and my prof always quotes that "* Good science always tries to disprove its theories *"

From what I am seeing right now is that some people are completely sure that this is the reason that dragged them into dp, or maybe it contributed to it.

And I'm sorry if this is an old topic, as some of you have put it, I never looked at the past posts, I just needed to get this theory out to help others (and myself0 in case I'd forgotten everything. But isn't the fact that this is an old topic that keeps coming up even have some relevency?

What I mean by that is , if this topic keeps coming up, even by those who never knew it was unoriginal in the first place , doesn't that prove something?

Case studies and other theories, and even posts who disagree are welcome here, so keep telling what you think and we'll try our best to figure this out.

Hoping for a dp-free life, just like you
bbsan[/b]


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## argenys (Dec 31, 2005)

bbsan.....are you dp free?

Pascual


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## bbsan (Nov 7, 2005)

nope, not yet, but I'm getting there. I only discovered 2 months ago that I am not alone with this thing.

Can you guess what my new years resolution is? You guys all probably have the same one, hope it comes true for all of us!


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

bbsan,
Sorry to have brought up the fact that it's an old topic, that's really irrelavant. what should be relevant though is that lights, sugar, caffeine, exercise, sex, all things that stimulate the body and cause adrenaline to be released are not in themselves the cause for dp/dr. the experts who've been studying dpd for years didn't just miss that, it's just that it's simply not the case. you MUST already have an anxiety condition before any of those stimulants can have that kind of dramatic effect on you.

Pascual! i'm glad you're here! this board needs more recovered people sharing their experience. I have to run out of my neigborhood cuz it's already getting crazy with people lining up to see the ball drop. everyone have a happy new year!

peace,
rula


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## moonDust (May 18, 2005)

Shimmering lights, like screens may cause also migraine attacks. which are also related to DP somehow.

The least you can do about screens is to increase the refresh rate of your screen.

Control Panel >> Display >> Settings >> Advance >> Monitor.

Set the higher rate your monitor can handle.


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## ShyTiger (Apr 1, 2005)

old topic but like the way it was done . Have to agree with gbsbrown. Great thread thou.


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Maybe this thread needs to define the term "cause" 
I use it loosely when I state that right now ( even though I am at this moment 100% symptom free, happy, no apparant anxiety, no issues, no stimulants etc,) that if I walked into a store with flourescent lighting I would wipe out in minutes DUE to the lights, every time, These lights may be higher up on the evolutionary causal scale, the tip of the iceburg, the camel that broke the back, but to me they are the immediate cause of what is happening to me in that situation. If the lights were not there, the dr/dp would not be there.

If I jumped off a bridge and died, was it gravity that killed me or was it my emotional/mental willfull act? Of course it was my act, but ultimately gravity was the scientific explanation. And what caused my act? Was it depression? So did depression kill me? What caused the depression, was it my childs overdose? So did he kill me? Or was it the drugs that killed him that killed me? Or was it the fact I was a lousy father and he did drugs to escpape his pain and so in effect I ultimately did it to myself. All of it is in relationship, all had to happen for the final event.

Even though lights are only in relationship to other things like anxiety, I think the dramatic effect they have on most of us is a key for understanding the workings of dr/dp.

I do like Claire Weeks' use of the word "sensitzed" though. She speaks of people who are in high threshold or plateau anxiety and become "sensitized" to anxiety where it does not take much to trigger episodes of extreme symptoms. This may explain the fact that many of us do not feel like we are anxious but yet the mechanisms are there to evoke some nasty symptoms with little effort.

But I still feel lighting is a very very important area to understand more fully by researchers. Many times discoveries are made by looking at the periferal (sp). Sometimes science works well to work "backwords" in their methodology. The physiological relationship of cause and effect is way too close, in my case anyway. Lighting is the single most powerful variable as to whether or not I have major dr/dp episodes.
jft


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## bbsan (Nov 7, 2005)

you make a good point there jft. and you sorta answered it too. Cause is just the effect, lighting,computers or whatever EFFECTS dp, either causing it (walking into a supermarket, or w/e making you have it for w/e amount of time) in some way or another.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

jft said:


> But I still feel lighting is a very very important area to understand more fully by researchers.


But it's already *fully* understood JFT; my doc told me on my first visit that my hyper-sensitivity to light is due to a malfuction in the temporal lobe, just like in epilepsy. Homeskoold posts about it almost every time he writes. there's no big "lighting" mystery, fortunately.

but if your temporal lobe was not malfuctioning (cause) lights will not give you dp/dr (symptom). other symptoms of problems in the lobes include: seeing shadows, out of body sensations, dark mood & thoughts (death, suicide, etc), social withdrawal, mood swings, Periods of panic, anxiety or fear...does that sound like dp/dr to anyone?


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Hey rula. Yes, I have followed Homeschool"s and yours posts and do not dispute at all, mainly because I am quite an amateur and really ignorant in the tech area.

My post was more about my pure personal experience.

But I also had a sleep deprivation eeg and many other tests done while doing a "work up" at a university research hospital. Stayed there a week. They specifically were looking at temporal lobe issues as you speak. All turned out negative. It was at this time I spoke at length with one of the foremost researchers (not just saying that he was...he was) on dp/dr at the time and he told me "the temp lobe advocates do not know what they are saying" I am not saying you guys do not know what you are saying, not at all. Both you guys are quite informed and head and shoulders above me in understanding. I am only saying that there are other schools of thought out there (at least a few years ago)_ that do not support this temp lobe arguement. Maybe this has changed, I do not know. I guess I should update my understanding. Medicine is so much fun. I wish they could all just get along, but it will take less rockets and cannons and more funding for us to benefit I guess.
jft


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2006)

I suffer from social anxiety, and dp/dr. The interesting thing is I remember when my social anxiety got worse, it was the same time that my dp/dr showed up, and that was at age 5. So what happened differently at age 5? all those hours at school with no natural light, they had fluorescent. Although the kitchen light at home was fluorescent, I spent more time in school directly under their lights. Plus I remember that I had dp/dr when I was much younger, as far back as I can remember, I have always felt unreal under fluorescent lights. But this is important for me to know, because I believe that the dp/dr is the cause of my social anxiety.

This is the interesting part, I had seizures as a newborn, but luckily they gave me medication for it for a while then when they caught it. So I don't suffer from any since then. I find it interesting that I experienced seizures and now have dp/dr.

how many of you all suffered seizures as a newborn but they never caught it. A seizure isn't always obvious to see. Could that be where dp/dr comes from for some of those who didn't do drugs?


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

I know an 18 year old male who had "petits mals" when he was an infant, but not at birth. He doesn't have dp. Is that what you mean or do you mean more severe seizures?


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

ive said this all before but no one listens to me and my 'flowerchild' (yes ive been accused on this site of being one) rants.

i mean.. helllloooooooooo! :roll:

you can slice it and dice it all you want. we ARE organic entities afterall. if its unnatural to us, its probably going to have an adverse effect on us at some point. it just blows my mind how human beings have become so arrogant that they think they can seperate themselves from this fact. you cant 'upgrade' yourself like a friken playstation whenever you want. nature does 'upgrade' that is EVOLVE but it takes many many lifetimes. nature doesnt adhere to fads.


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i went into my first (and worst) state of dp without any computer and very little tv input. for me, lighting aggravates the visual dr (in my case acid-like visuals) and so can increase anxiety to a point but it doesn't alter my sense (or lack of) self. it has never left me exposed to the brutality of dp.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

PerfectlyCalm said:


> This is the interesting part, I had seizures as a newborn, but luckily they gave me medication for it for a while then when they caught it. So I don't suffer from any since then. I find it interesting that I experienced seizures and now have dp/dr.
> 
> how many of you all suffered seizures as a newborn but they never caught it. A seizure isn't always obvious to see. Could that be where dp/dr comes from for some of those who didn't do drugs?


What were those seizures like? How long, how severe, etc. ?


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Jft, 
I'm interested by your post. First of all, which university hospital and which doctor there treated you? You cant rely on a sleep deprived EEG ( they're a dime a dozen) - to fully rule out a clinical epilepsy case you would need an ambulatory or overnight EEG in an EEG unit. Second, if it comes out negative, it just means you arent clinical. Getting a SPECT or a PET scan of the temporal and parietal lobes that turned out normal, however, would convince me. Currently, however, all of the papers written on DPed people who have been brainscanned, and all of the DPers who I know who have payed for brainscans, have had abnormal metabolism in both their temporal and parietal lobes. I would be interested in knowing which doctor said this, as I'd like to look up his published papers. But what I'm proposing WILL be disagreed with, because it *is* a step ahead or outside (depending on your point of view) of mainstream medicine, and I'm okay with that. Brainscanning is currently far, FAR outside of the norm, even in the number one rated and federally funded psych hospital in the US, Western Psychiatric Institute and Clinic, where I attended lectures and used their research library. I also committed myself for neuropsych testing during a porphyria attack, and their treatment of patients was absolutely abysmal. I found myself telling them what to ask their doctor's for. A good kid was there for unexplained rages and depression, and I told him to ask for Tegretol. He eventually got it, but thats another story. A woman there was being committed by her parents, who had filed to be her legal guardians - she was 30- and she was being given a 10th course of ECT. I watched her visibly fade, what little was left of her. Psychiatry as it currently is can kill you. Without objective testing, it cant do any good. I'm glad that I've seen this system from both sides....as a published medical student and also as a patient with a rare ailment. You've got to be more ambitious than the doctors that are doing the research now, because they just dont care about psychiatric patients the way the patients need to be cared about. More people with ailments like DP or porphyria need to get into the medical field and change the care of psychiatric patients, and regular patients, from being a burden (as most psych nurses see them, and doctors) to bringing patients to remission and functionality as the norm. Medicine in general is unambitious and unsympathetic with chronic fatigue, fybromyalgia, etc....and this needs to change. But psychiatry is at the bottom of the rung when it comes to patient care.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Hey homeschooled. Like I said in my post, my information may be outdated.

I went back to the journal papers written by this fellow though and saw that he was in tune at the time with the TLE people. TLE understanding goes back a long ways and he tried to embrace it (but maybe not accept it) at least in one of his papers, but when talking to him he said to forget about this TLE thing. At the time they were speaking of substrates and the like, trying to explain the similarities between TLE patients and DP people. His name is Evan Torch and was out of Emory Universty in Georgia. He wrote at least three research papers on dp in the mid eighties The reason I called him a foremost reseacher at the time is because when I was obsessively looking into dp research he had jsut as many words written on the subject as anybody else. It is so interesting to see that his philosophy on dp (outside of TLE) is almost identical to so much that is talked about on this board by folks (focus outward, be not obessessed, get involved and stimulated outside of yourself, premorbid conditions for onset etc..) I took notes from my converstaion with him and as I read them today I saw three entires where he said to disregard the TLE people. They were barking up the wrong tree, albeit something was very similiar. He said this AFTER he had written his papers. Maybe the spect scans or etc.that you speak of have proved him wrong in the last 15 years, but that was his perspective then. And he was talking dp causal but maybe he would not argue with abnormal lobe reads in florescent settings etc. I am sure you can readily find his work in your med ibrary. All of this is way out of my league.

I did have the overnight eegs as you referred to. Hell, I was wired up for a week in the unit (this was at the University of Minnesota).. All were negative. But this was in 1989. After the university stint, and after speaking with him, I went up to Canada to score some Cloimiprimine upon his recommendation, which was not FDA approved in the states at the time. the theory of course was to stop the obsession with self awareness and hypervigalence. The Docs up there, according to my notes, also totally dissed the TLE hypothesis. This is where I get my attitude toward all of this. But of course the cloimiprimine did nothing (actually I just could not tolerate it ) and neither did any other ssri that came out later targeting obsessional thought so maybe that hypothesis was wrong as well.

I am very interested to learn of any organic or psychological cause, does not matter. I think that
docs often try to squash patient fears of organic cause so they can get on with their psychological bent. I would love to learn, after years of avoiding any hint of it, that my dr/dp was organic and that it could be treated with a med. Or both. I do not care. I jsut would like some answers. I hope you stay in school and help us out homeskooled. You could be pivotal in this given your background.

peace, love, beads, but no heroin,
jft


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Well, I hate to say this, but DP has existed for a very long time.

It was first *named* by a physician in 1898, yes the turn of the last century.

*Ludovic Dugas (1898) (or Ludovig?)
Un cas de depersonalization. 
Revue Philosophique 45:500-506.*

To the best of my understanding there were no televisions or computers at that time. :roll:

This also indicates that before Dugas NAMED the illness it already existed. I don't for a moment believe this illness came out of the blue. There are historical figures dating back thousands of years to describe their own suffering as well as the suffering of others with various mental illnesses (including epilepsy).

I believe this is a neurological/medical disorder, I believe it could be related to seizure activity, but there are people on this board, as OLD as the hills, and that includes me 8) age 47 and older. I was an anxious child who brought on DP at the age of 4 or 5. I also have borderline traits.

My goal for 2006 is to stop explaining, LOL. So that's all I'll say.

Best,
D


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Dreamer. I was doing a google search today and came across "Andy's Site" from 1999. Saw your posts back then and found it so interesting that all of what we currently bring up on this board was brought up back then. It just keeps recycling. I suspect many have drawn into their corners and are comfortable with their views and their lives and that is good. Nothing like self clarity and serenity. But it amuzing how all the same questions are asked by newcomers here and the cycle keeps going. C.S. Lewis wrote about when the same questions are asked over and over by different generations that maybe these questions have validity. He related this to why all cultures need trancendence, or a God, but I think it can be applied to most anything. Almost like Plato's archetypes.

Speaking of which, I wish God would throw a bolt of lightning our way that would separate the chaff from the truth and give us all better understanding and treatment. There are too many of us with too many amateur (me) and professional opinions that are still hurting.

Anyway, I realized that you have been around in this battle for along time on these boards and it impressed me. Thanks.
jft


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## fingertingle (Sep 29, 2005)

That's an interesting idea...


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

jft said:


> Dreamer. I was doing a google search today and came across "Andy's Site" from 1999. Saw your posts back then and found it so interesting that all of what we currently bring up on this board was brought up back then. It just keeps recycling. I suspect many have drawn into their corners and are comfortable with their views and their lives and that is good. Nothing like self clarity and serenity. But it amuzing how all the same questions are asked by newcomers here and the cycle keeps going. C.S. Lewis wrote about when the same questions are asked over and over by different generations that maybe these questions have validity. He related this to why all cultures need trancendence, or a God, but I think it can be applied to most anything. Almost like Plato's archetypes.
> 
> Speaking of which, I wish God would throw a bolt of lightning our way that would separate the chaff from the truth and give us all better understanding and treatment. There are too many of us with too many amateur (me) and professional opinions that are still hurting.
> 
> ...


Dear JFT,

Thanks.

Yup Andy's Board where I first logged on in 1999 ... I had just gotten online and the first thing I typed into Google was depersonalization. I had been researching it on my own, but was so damned thrilled to find fellow sufferers. I felt I was one of maybe 10 people on earth who had this.

So good not to be alone.

And yes, the wheel goes 'round and 'round. It makes me sad to see new young people coming on with the same questions. It's understandable. One day as you say, we won't need to ask, there will be an answer. I believe that.

Take Care,
D


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2006)

I agree with light and DP. I believe DP is brought on by Insomnia, which can lead to REM sleep behavior disorder where our dreams intrude into our waking hours.

I find it interesting that all the SSRI and SNRI antidepressants can cause depersonalizaton. Hallucinations, Insomnia and Amnesia are also listed. Depersonalization, Hallucinations, Insomnia and Amnesia are also symptoms of REM Sleep Behavioral Disorder. Let's take a look at the symptoms of a dream or nightmare. Dream is nothing more than seeing something that is not real (hallucination). You may also see yourself in a dream interacting or even watch yourself doing things in the dream (depersonalization) and after waking from the dream you may quickly forget what your dream was about (amnesia). How many of you have thought that while you experienced DP it was as if you were dreaming or like watching yourself on TV. I personally don't think there is as big a barrier between dreams and wakefulness as we are lead to believe. What if the brain thinks that it is dreaming while your actually awake. What if a dreamstate intrudes into our waking hours?

Just a thought.
http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/pinealstory.htm This article talks about how serotonin affects the pineal gland and also how light can cause problems.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2006)

Google: Seizures and Hypoglycemia. Sugar is very important to brain function. Too little sugar and they brain can shut down. I find this article to be great at explaining Hypoglycemia. http://www.alternativementalhealth.com/ ... ycemia.htm


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2006)

you may have a point but i think its the combination of that and processing information, in a situation where you have to receive information and process it in order to react to it, that plus media or lights or sound or whatever.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

fantastic article jay. im 100000% hypoglycemic. its something ive struggled with for YEARS.


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

BIg Jay. And sleeping beauty. Are you clinically diagnosed hypoglycemic? The reason I ask is because when I first consulted a doctor many years ago about symptoms they did all the organic testing. At the time the buzz diagnosis was hypoglycemia and yes many symptoms seemed very familiar with my dp/dr. I even went on an extended diet for it And I took the all day test at the clinic and of course it was negative. Years later when hypoglycemia was replaced as the seeming new diagnosis by chronique fatigue syndrome for this regimen of symptoms that are shared by so many but explained by few, I realized that it maybe was just a trend, just as "neurastemia" (or whatever it was called) was the label for years before hypoglycemia made its debut.. God, there were self help books selling by the millions back in the 70's saying hypoglycemia was the root of all our problems. I never hear of it anymore. I am serious, I am not making fun here. I thought of it as a dead horse in terms of popular diagnosis. I write this in case hundreds of people reading this thread run to doc wanting to be tested for hypoglycemia.

I am not at all saying that hypoglycemia does not exist, I am only saying that the diagnosis (self diagnosis as well) was abused for many years and the health industry made millions on the illness a couple decades ago, with comparatively few people clinically testing positive. This is how my doc described it to me. And I could be very wrong. I usaully am. No offense here at all, I am only curious.
jft


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Jft, 
Its still a buzzword in the wholistic medicine community. In the medical community in general, though, its fallen to where it should be - a necessary diagnosis with people with diabetes, hypothyroidism, or sometimes liver problems. Every once in a while you get a person with just plain old hypoglycemia for no apparent reason, and thats when your doc tells you to snack frequently and eat some candy bars. (Diabetic hypoglycemics - dont do this unless your on insulin or your doc tells you to!). Wholistic docs think that hypoglycemia is linked to Candida yeast eating up all your sugar....I beleive there is a grain of truth to the Candida yeast fiasco, but its so obscured by awful science, old wives tales, and just the idea that a fungus is taking over your entire body without killing you (which seems rather absurd to me), that I wouldnt go immediately jumping at that theory if your blood sugar was low. What I do know is that increasing the vegetables one eats and eating low-processed organic foods are good things to do whether or not it helps Candida, and of course, exercising. Great for blood sugar.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## orangeaid (Jun 24, 2005)

All I know is that light effs me up major. I feel the best at night in a dark room infront of my tv and computer screen, but then again I feel my anxiety is set to a low for the day as I feel safest at this time, knowing that I can relax.

I do think that light plays an important role. Bright lights screw me up and I never feel right. I think it is a combo of light and the amount of stimuli that we have to process in the light.


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