# Problems with your thoughts



## Bosko (Nov 9, 2007)

I was just wondering is it a common thing. Ive been positng on this board for ages now and rarley see people commenting about this symptom. i personally have a chronic problem of feeling seperated from what im thinking and it makes me want to just scrape my brain out. It kinda freaks me out as well when i think about how bad a problem it is for me and how hard it has been to get treated for it. IM still waiting for some type of relief form it apart from drinking, which doesnt really help anymore.


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

From my own experience, drinking will give you relief to a certain degree, but long term it is making your symptom worse. I know exactly what you are talking about as I have experienced the same. Do you engage in sweat producing exercise regularly? I would recommend it highly if you don't. Also slow belly breathing really helped me with this problem.

Get off the booze if you can. It makes things 10 times worse. My life is so much better now that I am not drinking booze excessively. I cut it out during the week and only have the occasional on the weekend. This from someone who was regularly drinking 6-7 pints a night during the week and 3 times as much as that on the weekend.

PM me if you want any help with it.


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

that to me was one of my scariest symptoms. it wasn't constant for me, but when it hit me it scared the crap out of me. it mainly happened at work. i would usually be working with a customer when it happened, so you could imagine how much that would suck. on the bright side i have pretty much fully recovered now so it isn't a problem anymore. i second what jonny said, you gotta get away from the drinking, you're only digging the hole deeper.


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## Bosko (Nov 9, 2007)

This is just getting completley out of control. I cant go into hospital so close to christmas, I can actually hear what im thinking now, and every second im awake is hell. I cant explain it its fucking horrible. New years resoloution is too find help for this, or im definitley going to a euthanasia clinic. Its like a continual nightmare, i just want it to end.


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

Are you taking any meds for that?You say you can hear your own thoughts.Is it like an echo?I mean you think and then you hear what you just thought?


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

Please don't get me wrong.this is not just morbid curiosity.I only asked this because i'm trying to figure out what can be wrong and try to help you.
I really want to help


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## Bosko (Nov 9, 2007)

nope, no meds, been waiting 9 months too see a therapist. SSRIS dont help, ive taken loads of different ones and GP's never even suggest benzos. Im at the end of my rope with this, im totally sick of it, i cant sleep and feel completely unhuman, i just want it to all end. Yeh its like thought echo, like theyre rebouding inside my head. Its hard to explain but it is the most disturbing thing ive ever known and it is chronic and lasts every second i am alive. IM not trying to sound morbid either but its the reality of my situation. Ive put a brave face on it for 2 years but i cant fight this anymore.


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

true,SSRI's don't help.I have a thought problem also and i'm taking an anti-psichotic and a benzo,and they are both helping.Do you have the chance to go to a private psychiatrist and ask him/her for those kind of meds?Don't wait the doctors to suggest you the meds,just tell them that you need them so that you can have some relief.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Thought echo, is that like hearing a voice? I mean you heard the thoughts with delayment loud in your ears or just as a thought-voice? I have some similar shit.
But I don't "hear it" as I'm hearing someone im talking to IRL infront of me, that is, through my ears



Mario said:


> true,SSRI's don't help.I have a thought problem also and i'm taking an anti-psichotic and a benzo,and they are both helping.Do you have the chance to go to a private psychiatrist and ask him/her for those kind of meds?Don't wait the doctors to suggest you the meds,just tell them that you need them so that you can have some relief.


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> Thought echo, is that like hearing a voice? I mean you heard the thoughts with delayment loud in your ears or just as a thought-voice? I have some similar shit.
> But I don't "hear it" as I'm hearing someone im talking to IRL infront of me, that is, through my ears


It was like earing the voice/repetition of own thoughts.It was like you said,to ear the thoughts with delayment loud but inside the head as a thought voice.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

I still don't get it. Its like you think something, and you hear your thought as someone said it beside you in your ear? that sound level i mean?
I stink stuff and hear my thoughtvoice.. mabye this is normal but always wondered about it. mostly when im over analyzing myself that I notice it.
some people think in words, and some in images, mostly it's a mix... but i wanna know because i "hear" it in my mind, like low like reading lines in a book to myself in the head. that kind of stuff.. or thats not what u mean?



Mario said:


> It was like earing the voice/repetition of own thoughts.It was like you said,to ear the thoughts with delayment loud but inside the head as a thought voice.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

ok, this is not uncommon. i too have had this. meds helped me.


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

dancingwobbler said:


> I was just wondering is it a common thing. Ive been positng on this board for ages now and rarley see people commenting about this symptom. i personally have a chronic problem of feeling seperated from what im thinking and it makes me want to just scrape my brain out. It kinda freaks me out as well when i think about how bad a problem it is for me and how hard it has been to get treated for it. IM still waiting for some type of relief form it apart from drinking, which doesnt really help anymore.


Definitely not alone on this one. It's one of the more disconcerting symptoms to be sure. 
The thought-echo (inner voice repeat with delay to original thought) mentioned in one of the replies as well.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

"Thought echo" is considered a psychotic symtom



pancake said:


> Definitely not alone on this one. It's one of the more disconcerting symptoms to be sure.
> The thought-echo (inner voice repeat with delay to original thought) mentioned in one of the replies as well.


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> "Thought echo" is considered a psychotic symtom


So much for panicking the whole board (after all none of us want to lose grasp on elusive old sanity). 
I've just done a google search and found that while it is generally a sign of psychosis it also occurs in such conditions as narcolepsy and surprise surprise: DP


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I have this shit to!
And I told my psychologist this. I've had this for over 10 years.. and I said it wasn't like this before. 
She said, don't think about it or worry, as long as you know it's not an outside entity



pancake said:


> So much for panicking the whole board (after all none of us want to lose grasp on elusive old sanity).
> I've just done a google search and found that while it is generally a sign of psychosis it also occurs in such conditions as narcolepsy and surprise surprise: DP


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Can you paste the link where this crap is connected to DP?



pancake said:


> So much for panicking the whole board (after all none of us want to lose grasp on elusive old sanity).
> I've just done a google search and found that while it is generally a sign of psychosis it also occurs in such conditions as narcolepsy and surprise surprise: DP


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> Can you paste the link where this crap is connected to DP?


I am being a bad employee right now. Will find the link again this evening and post it.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Lets sort it out what we both mean. A thought Echo is supposed to be that you think something, like a reflex, then you hear it aloud=loudly/hearable..
I'm not "hearing" my thoughts in the same way as when someone talks to me, like that kind of voice. But rather my inner thought voice. Since it feels dissociated, both body and my mind it can (if you were unable to tell unreality from reality which we can) interpreted as "someone elses thoughts in ones head"..which is not the case I believe in any of us. But it's quite annoying that you can hear your inner voice rambling when you i.e. type in an URL you want it to be absolute silent.



pancake said:


> I am being a bad employee right now. Will find the link again this evening and post it.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm looking forward to your link!



pancake said:


> I am being a bad employee right now. Will find the link again this evening and post it.


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## Bosko (Nov 9, 2007)

I've suffered with this for years now. Its terrible for me, and its so hard to explain to a doctor. Im trying to get treated for it but they just keep giving me ssris which dont help. Im printing off this page when i go see my psych this week to show him im not on my own!


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> Lets sort it out what we both mean. A thought Echo is supposed to be that you think something, like a reflex, then you hear it aloud=loudly/hearable..
> I'm not "hearing" my thoughts in the same way as when someone talks to me, like that kind of voice. But rather my inner thought voice. Since it feels dissociated, both body and my mind it can (if you were unable to tell unreality from reality which we can) interpreted as "someone elses thoughts in ones head"..which is not the case I believe in any of us. But it's quite annoying that you can hear your inner voice rambling when you i.e. type in an URL you want it to be absolute silent.


Not found the link again yet, but yes - same as you. My thoughts echo, but only within my own head. That is, I know it's my own thought being repeated in my head and I know nobody else can hear it. It's just hella annoying that's all.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

So no doctor has said anything about this beeing a psychotic symtom?



dancingwobbler said:


> I've suffered with this for years now. Its terrible for me, and its so hard to explain to a doctor. Im trying to get treated for it but they just keep giving me ssris which dont help. Im printing off this page when i go see my psych this week to show him im not on my own!


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

So this is described by many DP people?
Have you told any doctor about it, if so, what did they say?



pancake said:


> Not found the link again yet, but yes - same as you. My thoughts echo, but only within my own head. That is, I know it's my own thought being repeated in my head and I know nobody else can hear it. It's just hella annoying that's all.


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> So no doctor has said anything about this beeing a psychotic symtom?


No - not been to a shrink in a decade, but I remember mentioning it because I kept thinking to myself: "that's it I've lost it... that's it I've lost it"







and both therapist and shrink did agree at the time that I was NOT psychotic. They discounted the symptom because I knew it was really just me and that it could not be heard by others.

I think the distinction is what we talked about: after all we share a lot of symptoms with schizophrenics, but ours always stop short of what they have to go through. We know it's not real - no matter how harsh this stuff gets we know it's an error in our perception, not a change in the world around us. We know the voice ultimately belongs to us, no matter how distorted, and that we are the only ones hearing it.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

I think and analyze like "Yeah, I mean one can't hear other peoples thoughts, therefor noone can hear mine - besides This is something I didn't even analysed before and wasn't a problem so it's my mind that's changed, and noone/nothing else"



pancake said:


> No - not been to a shrink in a decade, but I remember mentioning it because I kept thinking to myself: "that's it I've lost it... that's it I've lost it"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Yes, Many symtoms are identical to schizophrenic sufferers. The only difference is that they might suffer from DP becuase they look in the mirror and think It's somone taken over their body, when one who has reality testing intact know that it's them and gets terrified why it feels alien/unfamiliar. 
Their anxiety might be because of their body beeing changed and taken over, same experience (DP) by "Us" might be interpreted as one has a chemical imbalance and is in an identitychrisis and seek treatment to feel "normal" in the mirror again.



pancake said:


> No - not been to a shrink in a decade, but I remember mentioning it because I kept thinking to myself: "that's it I've lost it... that's it I've lost it"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> I'm looking forward to your link!


I just tried to find it again but no joy. If I come across it again I'll post a ref.
Apologies for my sourcelessness.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

If it's normal in "DP" it should be tons of websites one might think



pancake said:


> I just tried to find it again but no joy. If I come across it again I'll post a ref.
> Apologies for my sourcelessness.


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> If it's normal in "DP" it should be tons of websites one might think


I just had a look-see and "thought echo" or "écho de la pensée" is not a standardized medical term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MedDRA). Maybe that's why it is not mentioned in studies a lot? Just a wild guess.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, I'm still waiting for the webpage where it says that thought echo is a symtom/part of DP



pancake said:


> I just had a look-see and "thought echo" or "écho de la pensée" is not a standardized medical term (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MedDRA). Maybe that's why it is not mentioned in studies a lot? Just a wild guess.


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## Bosko (Nov 9, 2007)

What do you people think is the best way to treat it? Ive been looking for treatment for years and doctors are very ignorant towards this. I just keep getting ssris given me. Im currently taking 40 mg of paxil a day, have been taking it for a week or two now and feel no different at all. Ive tried loads of ssris andthey all just do the same thing to me, which is stimulate me mildly but dont help with the thought dissociation. Mario (who posts on here) suggested an anti psych and a benzo, but i know i wont get a benzo. I have a psych appointment this week and am planning on telling him, paxil isnt working. I feel really stupid though, going back and telling him its not working. Its like i feel im not being strong enough in myself, I always end up disgusing how bad i feel, and saying yeh its fine.


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> Well, I'm still waiting for the webpage where it says that thought echo is a symtom/part of DP


As mentioned before I was unable to find it again. Either I used a more inspired search term than I can recall or my finding was erroneous. I think the latter is more likely in light of that while we are using the term "thought echo" here we've already worked out we don't quite fill the criteria for what that term entails.









Here's a wikucination with it's reality testing intact I stumbled across though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudohallucination

And also, while not mentioning echoing thoughts in particular according to this site ("Migraine Aura Foundation" - sources listed at bottom of their page) even migrain sufferers might get their share of auditory "non-psychotic" hallucinations: http://www.migraine-aura.org/content/e27891/e27265/e26585/e26596/index_en.htm
To be fair, occasionally I wonder whether aura without migraine is what's behind all this as soon as the symptoms appear near identical to episodic DP.

While I am not up for a major google trip right now, "non-psychotic hallucination" seems to make for a useful base - search term.


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

http://priory.com/gloss.htm#echo

A link to a designation of thought echo.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

dancingwobbler,

tell him that this thought symtom is the symtom that bothers you the most, and that you've heard that neuroleptic medicine help some.
He is paid to sit there, and help people. don't tell him it's fine, then he can't help you



dancingwobbler said:


> What do you people think is the best way to treat it? Ive been looking for treatment for years and doctors are very ignorant towards this. I just keep getting ssris given me. Im currently taking 40 mg of paxil a day, have been taking it for a week or two now and feel no different at all. Ive tried loads of ssris andthey all just do the same thing to me, which is stimulate me mildly but dont help with the thought dissociation. Mario (who posts on here) suggested an anti psych and a benzo, but i know i wont get a benzo. I have a psych appointment this week and am planning on telling him, paxil isnt working. I feel really stupid though, going back and telling him its not working. Its like i feel im not being strong enough in myself, I always end up disgusing how bad i feel, and saying yeh its fine.


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Mario,

The poster claims that thought echo is also linked to DP, but can't show me evidence of this. And neither can I. 
But I wish it was true!



Mario said:


> http://priory.com/gloss.htm#echo
> 
> A link to a designation of thought echo.


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## Bosko (Nov 9, 2007)

If I could just have something that helps me, then id have something to live for. But as it stands its too much to cope with, just purley because it NEVER stops and is very frightening. IM fed up of thinking about it all the time, but its hard to explain. Because my problem are the thoughts itself, its very hard to just stop thinking about them! Its so difficult to explain.


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> dancingwobbler,
> 
> tell him that this thought symtom is the symtom that bothers you the most, and that you've heard that neuroleptic medicine help some.
> He is paid to sit there, and help people. don't tell him it's fine, then he can't help you


I agree 100% with the suggestions you are posting above,Its very important that his doctor understands what are his real needs in terms of medications.As i told before,for his problem,the thought echo,only an anti-psychotic will reduce or stop him from feeling it,and I also suggested a benzo because this problem is causing him too much anxiety,and a benzo along with the neuroleptic would be a great help.
In my opinion it's not important to claim or not that this thought echo has or not something to do with DP.In my point of view,the important thing is that Dancingwobbler gets an appropriate medication from a pdoc.and for that,i completely agree with you,he must make a very clear point to the doctor about is main concern so that and once and for all,the doctor can give him de medication he deserves in order to get relief


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

I too have something similar to "thought echo", and it started simultaneously with DP/DR.
I also withdrawn, not isolated because I work and have contact with family and friends.

I guess that I would qualify for a Schizophrenia diagnosis. Both 1 positive symtom and 1 negative.
I told my symtoms to a psychologist, she didn't think it was of any concern.

When you read about thought echo, it says specifically "spoken aloud" what this means, in terms of volume one can only speculate.
If it's experienced as a subtile inner thought-voice, I guess I have it too.
Or is it meant as a hallucinatory voice, quite loud , I don't have it.



Mario said:


> I agree 100% with the suggestions you are posting above,Its very important that his doctor understands what are his real needs in terms of medications.As i told before,for his problem,the thought echo,only an anti-psychotic will reduce or stop him from feeling it,and I also suggested a benzo because this problem is causing him too much anxiety,and a benzo along with the neuroleptic would be a great help.
> In my opinion it's not important to claim or not that this thought echo has or not something to do with DP.In my point of view,the important thing is that Dancingwobbler gets an appropriate medication from a pdoc.and for that,i completely agree with you,he must make a very clear point to the doctor about is main concern so that and once and for all,the doctor can give him de medication he deserves in order to get relief


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

My personal opinion about thought echo/hearing voices is something similar to hearing your neighbours talking throught the ventilation e.g. on your bathroom.
You don't hear them loudly, but still you hear it.



Mario said:


> I agree 100% with the suggestions you are posting above,Its very important that his doctor understands what are his real needs in terms of medications.As i told before,for his problem,the thought echo,only an anti-psychotic will reduce or stop him from feeling it,and I also suggested a benzo because this problem is causing him too much anxiety,and a benzo along with the neuroleptic would be a great help.
> In my opinion it's not important to claim or not that this thought echo has or not something to do with DP.In my point of view,the important thing is that Dancingwobbler gets an appropriate medication from a pdoc.and for that,i completely agree with you,he must make a very clear point to the doctor about is main concern so that and once and for all,the doctor can give him de medication he deserves in order to get relief


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

dancingwobbler said:


> If I could just have something that helps me, then id have something to live for. But as it stands its too much to cope with, just purley because it NEVER stops and is very frightening. IM fed up of thinking about it all the time, but its hard to explain. Because my problem are the thoughts itself, its very hard to just stop thinking about them! Its so difficult to explain.


When this got bad I used to put my headphones on with the volume turned up all the way. Hasn't harmed my ears as much as you'd think. That would usually distract me for a bit. So stupid I chucked my old diary out.







But then I was never very good at writing down coping strategies back then..


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

morozevich said:


> I too have something similar to "thought echo", and it started simultaneously with DP/DR.
> I also withdrawn, not isolated because I work and have contact with family and friends.
> 
> I guess that I would qualify for a Schizophrenia diagnosis. Both 1 positive symtom and 1 negative.
> ...


aloud [əˈlaʊd]
adv & adj (postpositive)
1. in a normal voice; not in a whisper
2. *in a spoken voice*; not silently


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## morozevich (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, then it's like hearing voices, but your hear the voices say you thoughts/what you think



pancake said:


> aloud [əˈlaʊd]
> adv & adj (postpositive)
> 1. in a normal voice; not in a whisper
> 2. *in a spoken voice*; not silently


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

Not the echo but:
"In the Mount Sinay study of 117 individuals with DPD, the vast majority (over 80%) reported no voices at all. However, a minority did experience an inner voice, a single one, best likened to an out-loud thought inside one's head, accompanied by an awareness that the voice is the person's own thoughts experienced in an intense yet disconnected fashion as a distinct "voice". This voice typically sounds like the person, is not experienced as alien, and is a commentary on the person's thoughts, feelings, or actions as if coming from a detached other the dissociated part of the self. This infrequent experience of a voice in DPD distinctly differs from that of individuals with dissociative identity disorder or its variants, who have multiple internal voices, often experienced as less owned by the indivudal and more alien, resprensting intrusions on the conscious self by the various laternate personalities."

Simeon D., Abugel J., Feeling Unreal, Oxford University Press, 2006, p. 47


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## abovetherim (Dec 18, 2009)

pancake said:


> Not the echo but:
> "In the Mount Sinay study of 117 individuals with DPD, the vast majority (over 80%) reported no voices at all. However, a minority did experience an inner voice, a single one, best likened to an out-loud thought inside one's head, accompanied by an awareness that the voice is the person's own thoughts experienced in an intense yet disconnected fashion as a distinct "voice". This voice typically sounds like the person, is not experienced as alien, and is a commentary on the person's thoughts, feelings, or actions as if coming from a detached other the dissociated part of the self. This infrequent experience of a voice in DPD distinctly differs from that of individuals with dissociative identity disorder or its variants, who have multiple internal voices, often experienced as less owned by the indivudal and more alien, resprensting intrusions on the conscious self by the various laternate personalities."
> 
> Simeon D., Abugel J., Feeling Unreal, Oxford University Press, 2006, p. 47


I am a recovered Paranoid Skitzophrenic, the only reason why I recovered is due to being a minor at the time, when your a minor a pyschatrist doe not have to let you know what condition you have. As long as one of your parents know it is perfectly fine. I was given anti-pyschotic medication, the first night I took the smallest bit of seroquel I tripped out for about two hours. I stopped the medication and did not take it for two weeks.

Hearing voices and seeing things occasionally is really fregin weird, yet at times I found it to be funny. I would hear shit like "Dont go into that car, you will die if you sit in the passenger seat". My seroquel went up to 250 MGs and after a while I felt pretty safe. A year later my mom told me I suffered from Paranoid Skitzophrenia, she told me the doctor felt bad and didnt want to tell me because I would probaly obbess about it and make things worse.

But yeah to all those out there hearing voices and this echo stuff, you guys should go on an anti-pyschotic, it does wonders.

Once I defeat DP my life will be a dream come true, suffered from this stuff for 8 years, started when i was 10. I have overcome Paranoid Skitzophrenia, Derealization, Pyschosis, Depression and a few others. I am looking forward to the end of DP which will probaly happen within the next few months at this rate haha.


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