# An interesting tip for a possible quick cure/relief from DP/DR



## brightmorningstar

Hello everyone, I know what I'm going to tell you may sound new age stuff or bullshit. But I know there are so many desperate people trying to fix their lives with the situation of DP/DR, so I hope some of you will try this and maybe get some relief or results.

First of all I lived with DP/DR and many mental problems on an off through my whole life, I am 23 years old, quite succesful person in an academical sense, but you know the rest(emotional and personal aspect of life sucked, it is all behind now). Anway I had a big state of blank mind, I believe most of the people of with DP/DR surpress their thoughts and feelings UNINTENTIONALLY. Becareful, you may say no I don't do that shit, or you might say oh my mind is blank how can this be happen! Well most of the people also already don't see their thoughts clearly(normal people) I'm not saying they are blank minded like we are, but they don't see them as we don't see them, this is the unawareness of thoughts, also you can supress them while being unaware, because of past conditioned traumas you could developed a defence mechanism that you are inclined to supress any thought, dream, emotions when they show in your subconcious mind, the only way out through is noticing whenever you do that and use truly authentical acceptance(this shit is harder than you think). If you have self doubt issues, low energy, depression, anger, numbness, no emotions except hate, big loath for yourself and others. This might be the issue. If this phase didn't resonate with you I'll give the voojo stuff in the next paragraph.

Secondly, this is where I'm gonna go weird for the cure/relief. There is a point in your body called Dantian/Dantien, below 2 inches naval point, also named as Hara, this is an energy point which used in taoist and chinese and all energy traditions. There are many spiritual and energetical explanations about this point and many metaphors, but I don't go into detail. Hara-kiri also comes from there. Actual meaning of harakiri is not just killing your self but killing yourself from your main energy point to extunguish your soul from earth. Anyway besides rambling about spirituality and history, this is the point which they say you will feel your BEING the most(which people with DP, feel lack of sense of self, this practice takes you to the opposite, takes you to feeling your being most strongly). After doing a lot of research and trying also myself. This is the point which they call your CENTER(centering comes from focusing on hara ). So you will ask me, how this is related to DP/DR. When you center your all energy or attention (they call it chi, prana etc whatever this is not important for us) on this point, you feel a sense of groundedness, a sense of safety and a safe of belonging to your true self and besides all of these your blank mind and emotional numbness may lift and maybe your perception could change. I invite you all try this. I know it all sounds hippy-dippy, but from a logical perspective it is not that stupid. Because it takes you to the opposite of all DP/DR symptomps. This can be done by making this practice as a meditation, but it is simply a centering. Anyone who is interested in this practice might give a comment so I can explain more about this and how you can do this, or you might search from this online and ask questions here. I advise you to not be so prejudical about this. I know there are many people in search of a logical answer, but sometimes the answer or the help needed are not necessarily logical, but simple and a stupid one. Good day.


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## mana_war

I think you are over estimating how critical people here will be of spiritual ideas.

But yeah, I would love for you to explain more of the process. It's worth a shot right?


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## Phantasm

Hi brightmorningstar. I found this link, is this the practice you mean?

https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_83.htm


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## brightmorningstar

Hello guys

http://naturallysavvy.com/blog/hara-meditation

https://oshosammasati.org/meditation/hara-awareness-breath/

According to the first link I've sent, people who also breaks bricks or do any stunts in martial arts, takes the strength of the gravity of the center. that is explained in the link.

Also the link you've sent is useful. But you must really sink in that area and imagine all your bodys energy gathering around that small point, there are some instructions in the links. What you gotta do is, you need to feel that your center is in your belly, or in the navel area, even during the day. Like you should act while knowing that your center is in your belly area(hara), not in your head or not having a center. For an example, you are walking towards a friend you didn't see in a long time, and you get a little bit anxious to what to say, but there is only 5 seconds to handshaking and you're walking towards him, while you walking you don't get lost in shitstorm(you put your some attention into your hara or belly while walking), you know you have a center , and that is located in the hara area, you take strength from it and a sense of safety and security. While doing this for a time I believe you can strengten your sense of self, with time it should show up when there is enough safety and security feelings in your mind and body. I'm not a professor or I have any degrees. When I tried this I experienced a real stillnes and quiteness in the air but after the practice my blank mind was fulled with thoughts and dreams and I tasted what it feels like to feel a strong sense of self, you may feel nausase at first but it is ok. The ones who give it a try please write it here so we can discuss or talk about it.


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## yoloking123

Im definitely gonna try it cuz it really does make sense to me. Hopefully i feel what you felt.


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## Broken

I have tried this before with some good results. But it didn't last, perhaps I need to try it again. I did notice tension in the belly releasing, almost a spasm. Have u noticed this? I do think that breathing is related to dpd as it commonly starts with a panic attack. The question is how and what to do


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## brightmorningstar

- Hello it's me again, as far as my experiments go, DP/DR caused by disconnection with the body, disconnection with the body is equal to disconnection with the Self and the emotions correlated with the Self, this disconnection happened when we got impacted by childhood traumas or big stressful crysises and we tried to solve them or repressed them with our thinking aka mind, so what is left to us was solely our mind, and mind itself was not enough for full range of life, that is why most of us here logical thinkers, intellectuals, harsh realists but not empathetic feeling people.

- The body shut down the feeling system to survive. So most of us live in a survival mode, DP/DR and also Dissociation is the side effect of that mode, everything is dulled, nothing is vibrant, system works on a low-efficient mode to survive. Actually I believe most of the mental ilnesses caused by the unprocessed traumas in the body. When we are disconnected from the body these daily tensions stay unprocessed and they get stuck in the body, and these tension cause traumas in the brain and the body because they left stuck, so they cause many mental problems, like depression, DP, DR, Dissociation, anxiety, anger, etc etc. Freud also proposed that depression is an inward, internal anger/hate which explains the same unexpressed or unprocessed emotions.

- What did I experiment is that, there is a fucked up thing going on, when a feeling or feelingy thing appears in body, my awareness goes away tries to run away from it(you can notice it if you only so closely pay attention, you escape from your body without knowing it). After I put my attention to my body and being fully there and let my self to feel anything what is in there. There is a big tension and traumatic responses coming up, these are baggage because you don't allowed to feel anything, so repressed feelings appears as tension in your body and traumatize your body, your body shows you how to drop these if you allow it yourself and put your attention so closely, if you succesfully accept them and let them happen without reacting and fully accepting, they go away and you move one level up. After you move one level up, you feel your body is more and more coming to its senses, while its happening you feel your self is gathering your power back. But I believe this is a process and it needs work, a work that requires all your attention, you need to understand your body this is the key to it, whenever a tension or feeling appears during the day you must feel it with all your acception, but aware of intention of supression. That is an instinct we have. This is fucking up us.

-The hara meditation(the technique I gave you is a quick release, if you're so far away from the body and mostly living up in your mind, start with it for a while and become grounding, what I've been telling you on this comment is body tension releasing, and feeling what is in there, this is the main component to achieve body feeling sensations.

SIDE NOTE= grounding is so important here guys, you must go to the nature and actually feel your whole weight supported by earth all means, you can also do this at home at various times, you must feel your all weight is on your feet and feel the connection between ground and your feet, feel how you are supported by the earth, and feel safe, feel secured by it.

I've wrote a lot, I'm here to talk and guide to people if any of this make sense to you. I'm also in the process, blank mind is getting weaker everyday, and numbness is sometimes go away and sometimes comes, the feeling of sense of self is getting stronger, but it all needs to worked out. These things won't happen by alone. Also you need to accept the situation and the negative words of your mind when they say nothing is real I can't feel anything, you gotta believe that you will FEEL and you will SEE real, and the outer world is REAL, you got so much to work on.


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## yume

Thank you, very informative, I will definitely try this and keep you updated about my progress.


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## brightmorningstar

yume said:


> Thank you, very informative, I will definitely try this and keep you updated about my progress.


You're welcome, I can't wait to hear from you!


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## Vexet

How is your mind-blankness and emotional numbness going? I'm way to afraid of meditating after I got to this state after meditation lol. Basically I feel nothing and have no thoughts, prior to that I felt almost everything and had 1000 thoughts.


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## brightmorningstar

Vexet said:


> How is your mind-blankness and emotional numbness going? I'm way to afraid of meditating after I got to this state after meditation lol. Basically I feel nothing and have no thoughts, prior to that I felt almost everything and had 1000 thoughts.


hey what kind of meditation you did, and how long and what happened? I think I can help you, I crossed that point in meditation also, and trying to balance it, learned few tricks in the way. I think I can help if you give me the information.


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## Vexet

brightmorningstar said:


> hey what kind of meditation you did, and how long and what happened? I think I can help you, I crossed that point in meditation also, and trying to balance it, learned few tricks in the way. I think I can help if you give me the information.


Well you didn't answer my question... My question is, do you still have the mind-blankness and emotional numbness (lack of motivation as well)?

How I got into it? I medidated 12 days in a row, and then i noticed my mind going more quiet and quiet, and I noticed gaps between thoughts n, and suddently I got afraid of it and boom, mindblankness happened, tried tons of grounding methods it helped a little bit, but still same shit. Also I went from complete anxiety to no anxiety now, It's as if I don't care about anything anymore. Also don't bring up everything about spirituality, trust me... Been there...


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## brightmorningstar

Vexet said:


> Well you didn't answer my question... My question is, do you still have the mind-blankness and emotional numbness (lack of motivation as well)?
> 
> How I got into it? I medidated 12 days in a row, and then i noticed my mind going more quiet and quiet, and I noticed gaps between thoughts n, and suddently I got afraid of it and boom, mindblankness happened, tried tons of grounding methods it helped a little bit, but still same shit. Also I went from complete anxiety to no anxiety now, It's as if I don't care about anything anymore. Also don't bring up everything about spirituality, trust me... Been there...


Seems like you're a young person and don't know shit. If you think 12 day meditation caused you it, it's not, you just made it by overthinking about it. Just quit meditating and go weight some things and try to live life as if nothing happened. You can't do anything wrong at 12 day meditation phase, if you did, just drop the practice and everything would come back, but you gotta stop thinking about it. It looks like you ruminate on this.


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## TDX

The literature on side-effects of meditation is scarce, but it strongly suggests that meditation can have severe side-effects, that can be _permanent_, including depersonalization disorder. While this was frequently observed among so-called "retreats", where people meditated excessively for several days, weeks or even months, relatively low doses were found to carry that risk as well.


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## Phantasm

TDX said:


> The literature on side-effects of meditation is scarce, but it strongly suggests that meditation can have severe side-effects, that can be permanent, including depersonalization disorder. While this was frequently observed among so-called "retreats", where people meditated excessively for several days, weeks or even months, relatively low doses were found to carry that risk as well.


Depends what you're doing - meditation is a broad term. If you're vulnerable to mental health issues and contemplating abstract philosophies then you're likely to freak yourself out as with any form of existential thinking, and I always advise people to avoid doing this, but if you're doing simple relaxing meditations that are only about being present and grounded in the here-and-now then it can be very positive and therapeutic.


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## TDX

You are wrong. A broad spectrum of meditation techniques were tied to unfavorable outcomes, including the mindfulness meditation you are referring to as "very positive and therapeutic":

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0176239


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## Phantasm

TDX said:


> You are wrong. A broad spectrum of meditation techniques were tied to unfavorable outcomes, including the mindfulness meditation you are referring to as "very positive and therapeutic":
> 
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0176239


Well, I only skimmed it, but I didn't see anything that contradicted what I said. here's a quote from your article:

Non-representative sample.

The study deliberately sampled meditators who had challenging meditation experiences that are often under-reported. Thus the 100% frequency of challenging experiences is an artifact of sampling and not a reflection of the actual frequency among Western Buddhist meditators.


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## TDX

It shows that several meditation techniques can cause severe side-effects, including the most popular ones, which contradicts your post. The fact that they have chosen people who had side-effects only means that the study cannot allow conclusions about how common such side-effects are.


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## Phantasm

TDX said:


> It shows that several meditation techniques can cause severe side-effects, including the most popular ones, which contradicts your post. The fact that they have chosen people who had side-effects only means that the study cannot allow conclusions about how common such side-effects are.


Quote:

Relevance to meditation-based programs and centers

The current study did not directly investigate meditation-related difficulties in mindfulness-based interventions (MBIs).


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## TDX

Maybe you should have continued to read after that sentence:

_"The current study did not directly investigate meditation-related difficulties in mindfulness-based interventions (MBIs). Although some practitioners in our study engaged in types of meditation practices (e.g., visualization), in contexts (e.g., long term retreat), and with motivations (e.g., attainment of religious goals) quite different from MBIs, a number of participants also reported challenging or difficult experiences under similar conditions as MBIs, that is: in the context of daily practice; while meditating less than 1 hour per day, or within the first 50 hours of practice; and with an aim of health, well-being or stress-reduction. Some types of practice associated with challenging meditation experiences were in many cases not dissimilar from the primary components of MBIs. Many practitioners in our study reported difficulties associated with concentration practices (focused attention-type practices such as mindfulness of breathing), or insight practices (open monitoring-type practices), or a combination thereof [25, 159]. "_


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## Phantasm

I did and nearly quoted it, as it talked about people using additional - I might call - abstract methods - like visualization, which are things I tend to say people should avoid. This muddies the waters so you can't really be sure what people are doing. This makes it all quite inconclusive and brings me back to my original statement that, "Depends what you're doing."

"The current study not only highlights the central role of appraisal in interpreting meditation experiences, but also that there are multiple, and sometimes conflicting, interpretative frameworks at play for Western Buddhist meditators."

The rest of that section is worth reading too.


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## TDX

> I did and nearly quoted it, as it talked about people using additional - I might call - abstract methods - like visualization, which are things I tend to say people should avoid. This muddies the waters so you can't really be sure what people are doing. This makes it all quite inconclusive and brings me back to my original statement that, "Depends what you're doing."


This is wrong in my opinion. While some people seem to have tried more obscure techniques during their _lifetime_, table 2 shows clearly that most sticked to some kind of mindfulness technique as their dominant technique _and_ when their problems started.


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## Phantasm

Well, I wouldn't want to disagree with table 2!


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## brightmorningstar

Phantasm said:


> Well, I wouldn't want to disagree with table 2!





TDX said:


> You are wrong. A broad spectrum of meditation techniques were tied to unfavorable outcomes, including the mindfulness meditation you are referring to as "very positive and therapeutic":
> 
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0176239


Well I've used a mantra technique for 5-6 months and mindfulness, breath meditation for 6-7 months, as far as I can tell it induces dissociative symtomps to me, but when I quit I seem to go back to my normal state. I think mantra meditations(TM,natural stress relief) is basically controlled dissociation, whereas mindfulness is the opposite of dissociation, but the thing is, you can fuck it up quite easily, there is a saying " there is no wrong way to meditate" well that is fucking wrong. People with past traumas, mental ilnesses, controlling people, narcissistic people, or so emotional people, there is always risk, when you enter the engineering of your mind, you can repress or reject any negative thought or memory without even knowing it, and that would cause dissociation from memories, thoughts, etc. I think most of the people does it wrong and they are not aware of that lol. I was like that for real 5 months and I wasn't aware that I had really big symtomps at the end. Meditation actually is not a simple relaxation technique. The media shows the meditation as the candy, actually it is really something different. But the technique I gave here is centering. And you just do it for 5-10 mins and feeling more present.


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## seb029

Well, i tried your technique and i must say, i feel my head is more clear and i'm more in the present moment ! I know at least that my way out of this is not "with my head" but on putting my energy elsewhere, definitly !

Next step for me is re-engaging with the world, not so easy to do but i have to.

When i think about the time i wasted on trying to figure things with my head, only on the psychological level, just to be more confused and lost, so wrong...Anyway, this is a new start for me, i hope.

So really thank you for this tip, brightmorningstar  And i'm doubtful about meditation, new age stuff in general but your technique is not at all hippie BS to me.


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## brightmorningstar

seb029 said:


> Well, i tried your technique and i must say, i feel my head is more clear and i'm more in the present moment ! I know at least that my way out of this is not "with my head" but on putting my energy elsewhere, definitly !
> 
> Next step for me is re-engaging with the world, not so easy to do but i have to.
> 
> When i think about the time i wasted on trying to figure things with my head, only on the psychological level, just to be more confused and lost, so wrong...Anyway, this is a new start for me, i hope.
> 
> So really thank you for this tip, brightmorningstar  And i'm doubtful about meditation, new age stuff in general but your technique is not at all hippie BS to me.


Hey buddy I'm glad it works for you, if that made even a single effect on you, you should try journaling, just try to let it all out, if you think fuck this I can't write and say to yourself I hate this life and this situation, write that all down. Secondly, consider creating a gratitude journal, write down every single pleasure you got that day and the things appreciate on that day, think every sentence for 30 seconds and do that exercise daily 15mins. Please do these if you want to get more and more better, I promise you all these works, tested by me. And hell even if not what is not worth to try it?


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## seb029

Ok, i'll try that, sounds interesting. But before that, i have a question...When i do the centering of energy, i feel a change in perception. Except that it's not good feeling, i feel fucking paranoid, and a low esteem in myself, like "i'm a piece of shit" feeling. Really weird. Do you know how to deal with it ?


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## brightmorningstar

seb029 said:


> Ok, i'll try that, sounds interesting. But before that, i have a question...When i do the centering of energy, i feel a change in perception. Except that it's not good feeling, i feel fucking paranoid, and a low esteem in myself, like "i'm a piece of shit" feeling. Really weird. Do you know how to deal with it ?


Do you also feel nauseous etc? Well it takes you to your being, how you really feel of yourself if you done it right. You probably couldn't handle entering your being. You may feel shitty about yourself deepdown without knowing it. But it may be also that you're not use to it. Any positive sides besides this?


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## ThoughtOnFire

FYI there are actually 3 Major Dantians


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## brightmorningstar

Lower Dantien is hara, usually just called Dantian, the word Dantian mostly used for lower dantien area because Zen practitioners mostly work from there, and what I talked about in the topic is implifies to focus on that area.


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## ThoughtOnFire

brightmorningstar said:


> Lower Dantien is hara, usually just called Dantian, the word Dantian mostly used for lower dantien area because Zen practitioners mostly work from there, and what I talked about in the topic is implifies to focus on that area.


True

Though myself, I've been working with the Upper Dantian. They do have official names, but I haven't committed to learning them fully. Just thought I'd let you know, cause maybe you might find it helpful.


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## ThoughtOnFire

For what it's worth



> *Lower dantian (下丹田, Xià Dāntián):* below the navel (about three finger widths below and two finger widths behind the navel), which is also called "the golden stove" (金炉 pinyin: Jīn lú) or the namesake "cinnabar field" proper, where the process of developing the elixir by refining and purifying essence (jing) into vitality (qi) begins.[6]
> 
> *Middle dantian (中丹田, Zhōng Dāntián):* at the level of the heart, which is also called "the crimson palace," associated with storing Spirit (Shen) and with respiration and health of the internal organs, in particular the thymus gland. This cauldron is where vitality or Qi is refined into Shen or spirit.[7]
> 
> *Upper dantian (上丹田, Shàng Dāntián):* at the forehead between the eyebrows or third eye, which is also called "the muddy pellet", associated with the pineal gland. This cauldron is where Shen or spirit is refined into Wu Wei or emptiness.


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## ThoughtOnFire

And here for you











> The term dantian used by itself usually refers to the lower dantian, which is considered to be the foundation of rooted standing, breathing, and body awareness in qigong, Chinese martial arts, and other martial arts.[9] The lower dantian has been described to be "like the root of the tree of life."[2]
> 
> In speaking of the lower of the three energy centers, the term dantian is often used interchangeably with the Japanese word _hara_ (腹; Chinese: _fù_) which means simply "belly." In Chinese, Korean, and Japanese traditions, it is considered the physical center of gravity of the human body and is the seat of one's internal energy (qi). A master of calligraphy, swordsmanship, tea ceremony, martial arts, among other arts, is held in the Japanese tradition to be "acting from the hara."
> 
> The lower dantian corresponds to the yoga concept of the _swadhisthana_ _chakra_. In yoga philosophy, it is thought to be the seat of _prana_ that radiates outwards to the entire body.[10]


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## ThoughtOnFire

Certainly not new age  btw

Old age more like it 

Ancient Wisdom


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## seb029

brightmorningstar said:


> Do you also feel nauseous etc? Well it takes you to your being, how you really feel of yourself if you done it right. You probably couldn't handle entering your being. You may feel shitty about yourself deepdown without knowing it. But it may be also that you're not use to it. Any positive sides besides this?


Nauseous not really but i'm more tired at times, did you have that ? It's maybe the depression underneath, i'm wondering...Yes, maybe i have to be more used to this.

Anyway, i can say after a few days of applying your centering technique that i feel a subtle change, i know a bit more what i want, i feel a bit more my body, and i'm more in the moment.

And i try to not think too much ahead or plan the future, just let myself be in the present and follow my mood and feelings. It's still foggy for now but i'll see later...

It just make sense that i was too much in my head and that i needed to put that energy, that focus elsewhere.

Anyway, even if your tip is not "THE CURE", you are definitly unto something with that. At least for my case...Take care


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## brightmorningstar

seb029 said:


> Nauseous not really but i'm more tired at times, did you have that ? It's maybe the depression underneath, i'm wondering...Yes, maybe i have to be more used to this.
> 
> Anyway, i can say after a few days of applying your centering technique that i feel a subtle change, i know a bit more what i want, i feel a bit more my body, and i'm more in the moment.
> 
> And i try to not think too much ahead or plan the future, just let myself be in the present and follow my mood and feelings. It's still foggy for now but i'll see later...
> 
> It just make sense that i was too much in my head and that i needed to put that energy, that focus elsewhere.
> 
> Anyway, even if your tip is not "THE CURE", you are definitly unto something with that. At least for my case...Take care


"Anyway, i can say after a few days of applying your centering technique that i feel a subtle change, i know a bit more what i want, i feel a bit more my body, and i'm more in the moment."

If you feel like this you should definetely continue my friend, it may not be cure for you yet, but relief will give you time to heal yourself. Take care and may luck be with you.


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## brightmorningstar

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Certainly not new age
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> btw
> 
> Old age more like it
> 
> 
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> Ancient Wisdom


Hey! Yes indeed! I'm glad that I could convey the info I had in my mind almost exactly, haha! And you seem into the researching stuff too! It's good to search things up when you get into these kind of stuff. I've quit all meditating and all relaxation techniques, I'm more inclined to changing thoughts and mastering mind at the moment, I was doing so many stuff involved with body and I created a barrier so I quit for a bit. How do you do? Do you do this practice?


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## ThoughtOnFire

brightmorningstar said:


> Hey! Yes indeed! I'm glad that I could convey the info I had in my mind almost exactly, haha! And you seem into the researching stuff too! It's good to search things up when you get into these kind of stuff. I've quit all meditating and all relaxation techniques, I'm more inclined to changing thoughts and mastering mind at the moment, I was doing so many stuff involved with body and I created a barrier so I quit for a bit. How do you do? Do you do this practice?


Hey 

So I've had this for quite some time. I began researching as soon as it began. I've looked into a lot of traditions and even new age stuff. I've tried many techniques over the years. But they all kind of culminated and have come full circle, recently. Right now I'm working on mastery of mind, too. I'd call it meditation, but I'm not setting aside time to sit Zen style on a cushion. Basically I'm just being "mindful" and try to be always all day every day.


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## brightmorningstar

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Hey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I've had this for quite some time. I began researching as soon as it began. I've looked into a lot of traditions and even new age stuff. I've tried many techniques over the years. But they all kind of culminated and have come full circle, recently. Right now I'm working on mastery of mind, too. I'd call it meditation, but I'm not setting aside time to sit Zen style on a cushion. Basically I'm just being "mindful" and try to be always all day every day.


I've quit mindfulness and meditation. I was doing meditating-while there is an expectation to achieve a state always that is the downside of practice- and then it strenghtened negative effects of blank mind, numbness etc. And about mindfulness, I think we are already aware too much, mindfulness is just creates more distance between thoughts and actions and I as a controlling person disturb thinking patterns very quickly. But as far as I can tell in the right doing , mindfulness meditation or any kind of relaxing meditation would help DP/DR immensely. But as far as I can tell for me, when I go to meditative state , I do something wrong, or just I cannot handle trauma surfacing and brain automatically dissociates or shut downs memories etc. I feel life is more flat etc.

Besides all my rambling, Idk if you have tried body-scan meditation , but as far as I discovered something with all these philosophical and spiritual research is that, emotions have regulations in the body, so as far as I know, the belly area gets tense when there is something wrong with emotional regulation, that is why this practice is good, but besides this , there is a crucial area that I didn't mention of, that is the chest area, the whole chest, that area presents negative trapped traumas, emotions and tensions, when you trap an emotion, you have a big wrapping in chest area, you probably don't notice it because most people are dissociated from their body here, but the trauma lies here and accumulates everyday, because you just can't process it or discard it, because your emotional system is not working probably, and you've learned to cope with this situation for years, that is called defense mechanism of the body against trauma, and that is why people is DP/DR on here, that is my theory. The area containing Solar plexus chakra and Heart chakra, when I did body-scans, when I was doing guided meditation, the guy tells you to focus on a body area etc., when I did focus on chest area, there was an immense past traumatic effects were lying on there, it was like when I focused on that point they started to come up from the grave and vanished in the wind, then there was a feeling, you feel so light and you think to yourself , what kind of tension was I live in wtf. I suggest you to try to focus on your chest area in a guided body scan and tell me how it goes.


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## Flavius

I read Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat Zinn, an pioneer in mindfulness and meditation in USA. He own his clinic where he helping people to get helathier by practicing meditation and mindfulness based stress reduction ( MBSR ). I own a guided CD's but I to tired to do meditation, because my concetration is very poor.


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## brightmorningstar

Flavius said:


> I read Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat Zinn, an pioneer in mindfulness and meditation in USA. He own his clinic where he helping people to get helathier by practicing meditation and mindfulness based stress reduction ( MBSR ). I own a guided CD's but I to tired to do meditation, because my concetration is very poor.


hey just sit on a couch and do whatever the audio says, the mindfulness is not about concentrating. it would clear your head and give you more energy, think about it and motivate yourself with this idea


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## ThoughtOnFire

brightmorningstar said:


> I've quit mindfulness and meditation. I was doing meditating-while there is an expectation to achieve a state always that is the downside of practice- and then it strenghtened negative effects of blank mind, numbness etc. And about mindfulness, I think we are already aware too much, mindfulness is just creates more distance between thoughts and actions and I as a controlling person disturb thinking patterns very quickly. But as far as I can tell in the right doing , mindfulness meditation or any kind of relaxing meditation would help DP/DR immensely. But as far as I can tell for me, when I go to meditative state , I do something wrong, or just I cannot handle trauma surfacing and brain automatically dissociates or shut downs memories etc. I feel life is more flat etc.
> 
> Besides all my rambling, Idk if you have tried body-scan meditation , but as far as I discovered something with all these philosophical and spiritual research is that, emotions have regulations in the body, so as far as I know, the belly area gets tense when there is something wrong with emotional regulation, that is why this practice is good, but besides this , there is a crucial area that I didn't mention of, that is the chest area, the whole chest, that area presents negative trapped traumas, emotions and tensions, when you trap an emotion, you have a big wrapping in chest area, you probably don't notice it because most people are dissociated from their body here, but the trauma lies here and accumulates everyday, because you just can't process it or discard it, because your emotional system is not working probably, and you've learned to cope with this situation for years, that is called defense mechanism of the body against trauma, and that is why people is DP/DR on here, that is my theory. The area containing Solar plexus chakra and Heart chakra, when I did body-scans, when I was doing guided meditation, the guy tells you to focus on a body area etc., when I did focus on chest area, there was an immense past traumatic effects were lying on there, it was like when I focused on that point they started to come up from the grave and vanished in the wind, then there was a feeling, you feel so light and you think to yourself , what kind of tension was I live in wtf. I suggest you to try to focus on your chest area in a guided body scan and tell me how it goes.


I think your theory is good and will take you further. That's the thing with learning and seeking. More will come, ideas evolve and grow. This is why I've been attempting lately to not teach any idea that I currently in the moment think will lead to recovery, insights, etc. If something WILL lead to recovery, then I will share, but until something actually does work for myself, I won't share. Though that doesn't mean I won't get into conversation, talking leads to more insights for all those involved, if it's a good chat. But, through the time I've had this I've had dozens and dozens of "this new technique I'm onto will lead to recovery" and I would tell people I was talking to about the techniques or ideas or insights. None of it ever lead to another's or my own recovery or enlightenment. So until something works for myself, then I'll not share it fully.


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## ThoughtOnFire

Any progress here?


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## brightmorningstar

Well I've quit all meditating because I seem to learned that I practiced detachment for full 1.5 year with minfulness meditation, I propose everyone to stay away from it because it is basically dissociation from your ego self, and we are already distant from ourself so that created a havoc on my psychology, I felt like I was about to experience dissolving of self or something like that, because we are so close to dissolving actually, when you look at people with dp/dr, they are almost like one step closer to ego death, so I'm off of any meditation practice, and also started to experience Pre-Awakening symptoms which I wasn't seeking. But for those are interested, the grounding exercise and this particular belly exercise was profound to take me back to my real self. I mean I always felt so strong and normal after doing this exercise, but I think if you searched for some taoist resource that would be more useful because there seem to be some repercussions after doing this exercise, I mean I felt a little scary at night or something like that. Because we're basically doing some energy work. There are many different terms in taoism, like heavenly qi, shen, we are playing with these without having full knowledge of it so it would be best to find some taoist grounding meditations and I believe if done properly everyday that would bring some people to their senses, I'm talking about people who are not sure they have dp dr or their dp dr comes and goes, I'm not sure about full blown DP/Dr situations. And there are meditations like Microcosmic Orbit meditation which you try to clear your energy channels. I believe most of the people with dp/dr have full blocked energy channels, mostly on chest area, and most people here are shallow breathers. I believe most people here if they would find some like pranayama or taoist teachers exercises they would definetely feel the difference. Because physiology is the main pillar behind all emotions, thoughts and behaviours. If you feel good in your physiology I mean in your body and endochronological system. You will feel good and think good. And that is precisely what they do. Heal your physiology


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