# God DOES Punish Us



## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

I've heard so many people say that God doesn't punish you. That it's the devil. That dp couldn't be a punishment from God. I found these verses while reading the bible that confirm that God DOES in fact punish us.

Hebrews 12:7-13 says "As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Whoever heard of a child who was never disciplined? If God doesn't discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children after all. Since we respect our earthly fathers who disciplined us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to the discipline of our heavenly Father and live forever? For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God's discipline is always right and good for us because it means we will share in his holiness. No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening--it is painful! But afterward there will be a quiet harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way."

I can't help but wonder if dp is God's punishment to some of his children.


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2010)

ustabetinyfairypeople said:


> I can't help but wonder if dp is God's punishment to some of his children.


It's a fair question! Though...I was an Atheist right up until I got DP. DP has brought me closer to God! Though I'm starting to become Agnostic. But the question then becomes is DP a Karmic Debt? Which you asked before also... hmmm... it's something to think about. Thanks.


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## lindsayloo (Jun 23, 2010)

God does punish his children, its just like you punishing your own,. you want them to learn ,and grow,being punished by the lord is a sign that he loves you, still ,and wants you to learn


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

lindsayloo said:


> God does punish his children, its just like you punishing your own,. you want them to learn ,and grow,being punished by the lord is a sign that he loves you, still ,and wants you to learn


Dp is one HORRIBLE punishment *sigh*


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## Xerei (Feb 17, 2010)

ustabetinyfairypeople said:


> I've heard so many people say that God doesn't punish you. That it's the devil. That dp couldn't be a punishment from God. I found these verses while reading the bible that confirm that God DOES in fact punish us.
> 
> Hebrews 12:7-13 says "As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Whoever heard of a child who was never disciplined? If God doesn't discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children after all. Since we respect our earthly fathers who disciplined us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to the discipline of our heavenly Father and live forever? For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God's discipline is always right and good for us because it means we will share in his holiness. No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening--it is painful! But afterward there will be a quiet harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way."
> 
> I can't help but wonder if dp is God's punishment to some of his children.


I don't believe God is punishing you, Jesus died on the cross, by his blood we were forgiven, right there, right then our sins were forgiven, why would anyone punish someone who has already been forgiven? NO GOD DOES NOT PUNISH ANYONE! Jesus died! He removed all our sins, isn't that enough of a proof that he won't punish you? "ALL sins will be forgiven" the answer is there.


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

i think there is a difference between discipline and punishment. discipline is about being stern with someone, like lets say you did something stupid and then had to face the ramifications of that situation. the discipline would come from God being stern with you and showing you the consequences but i do not think that God would ever outwardly punish somebody with something like dp. i think he would be stern and loving. it would be everything that he is against to say he would outwardly punish, like some human eye-for-an-eye kind of system. i suppose he could be about punishing but that specific verse doesn't imply that at all in my opinion.


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

peachy said:


> i think there is a difference between discipline and punishment. discipline is about being stern with someone, like lets say you did something stupid and then had to face the ramifications of that situation. the discipline would come from God being stern with you and showing you the consequences but i do not think that God would ever outwardly punish somebody with something like dp. i think he would be stern and loving. it would be everything that he is against to say he would outwardly punish, like some human eye-for-an-eye kind of system. i suppose he could be about punishing but that specific verse doesn't imply that at all in my opinion.


That makes sense.


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## Xerei (Feb 17, 2010)

Oh, and just another thing:
When the evil people knows to give their children good gifts, how much shouldn't God give to them.
We're humans, we're evil by nature, but God understands that, he knows it, he can see our hearts. God is love, not revenge. If he wasn't a God of love, would he give his own son for us? No. If he was a god of revenge, wouldn't he be really mad at us for killing his son?
God is love, he gave us his son, the greatest gift we have ever received, of course we keep on with all our sins, but yet, they no longer count, Jesus took all our sins away, and besides, what sin would you do for God to punish you with DP?
Did you kill someone? Moses killed someone (I think it was Moses), God forgave him, and Moses had a close relationship with God.
And that dude who was hunting all christians, did God punish him? No, he led him to faith.
Moses was before Christ, the other dude was after, God's love is still as great then as today. Don't doubt it, God doesn't want his children to suffer. Maybe your parents were the kind of people that punished, but though God is your father, he doesn't punish anyone.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

How bout the 5 year olds that are raped and killed or hit by a car or get cancer? Is that God's punishment? Was it 'their time'?

Chewy

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I think we punish ourselves. Someone once said, "only you can send yourself to hell." Actually I think I said that. I think DP is hell, or in other words that hell is a state of mind. The opposite of that would be inner peace or peace of mind which to me is heaven.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I think DP is a protection mechanism created by ourselves to try escape suffering, but by trying to cut ourselves off from pain we also cut ourselves off from all that is good like love or God and cause ourselves more suffering as a result, so I don't think God is punishing us but we are unintentionally punishing ourselves by cutting ourselves off from the natural flow of love and acceptance.

You could call it "sin" I guess that we do this because it comes from egotistical beliefs that we can control the world and avoid suffering but I prefer the buddhist terms without any associations of guilt involved that it is more down to ignorance or taking the wrong path without the right guidance or proper support.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

The bible is arguably the most powerful and dangerous mind control device ever created. Just look what it does to people. Just look at the original post in this thread. It is just a book! I know this is largely an american forum but damn, seing all the guilt/fear/confusion that this is causing so many people is troubling.

Peace.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I think we punish ourselves. Someone once said, "only you can send yourself to hell." Actually I think I said that. I think DP is hell, or in other words that hell is a state of mind. The opposite of that would be inner peace or peace of mind which to me is heaven.


I agree. DP, for me, turned out to be much like a heaven, with the help of Tao Te Ching.

And Pablo's, "I think DP is a protection mechanism created by ourselves to try escape suffering". I definitely feel so, too. Before my DP hit, I was the lowest, most horribly depressed I'd ever been and had finally just made the choice to kill myself. I am sure that my DP occurred as a defense from my basic, instinctual roots, to keep me alive longer. To detach from my self, and of course my emotions. It worked very well. I am still here. I am no longer suicidal.

No, DP is not a punishment. Why would some turd sandwich punish me for being unbelievably lonely and sad? What kind of sick @#$% would do that? I've always avoided hurting people, and tried helping people when I was capable.

LIFE IS AWESOME. God, if there is such a thing (and it's waaaay out there if it is, not something as puny as we humans imagined. He does not revolve around this tiny little earth. How naive, you know?) is much bigger and more complex to be sitting around, focused on us. This is the EPOCH! It's time to create a new God!


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2010)

Whoops


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Don't all of you atheist have ANYTHING better to do than crash every pro-God thread on here and rip it apart?? YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. WE GET IT. KEEP IT ON YOUR ATHEIST THREADS AND LEAVE US CHRISTIANS ALONE.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Sorry TFP but this thread is in the "Debate" part of the forum.


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

Inzom said:


> Sorry TFP but this thread is in the "Debate" part of the forum.


I will make sure to not post here again.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Sounds like someone had their intellect and logical thinking activated about this matter for a while which collided with their emotional non-rational beliefs and did not like it one bit


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

Inzom said:


> Sounds like someone had their intellect and logical thinking activated about this matter for a while which collided with their emotional non-rational beliefs and did not like it one bit


I just posted this in the wrong section. That's all. You aren't going to pull me over to the "dark side" of the force. Just because crap gets hard in life it isn't going to take my belief is God away. Peace out.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2010)

ustabetinyfairypeople said:


> I just posted this in the wrong section. That's all. You aren't going to pull me over to the "dark side" of the force. Just because crap gets hard in life it isn't going to take my belief is God away. Peace out.


Well, yeah, crap gets hard and that's exactly why you DO believe in a traditional god. By believing you completely give up on trying to make this life good and HOPE that something good comes after this life. You're a pretty good example of this.

Sorry to be such a dick, but you called me some pretty bad names, like 'atheist'. I am most certainly not. I am capable of having my own idea of god, so I do.

See you at Wal-Mart or the Regal theaters, or the mall. It's Vancouver, Gawl!


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Yeah because everyone who dont believe in the judeo-christian "god" is of the "dark side". Nice Star Wars reference tho. I am nothing of the sort and if this wasnt the Debate section I would be offended. I think we have the same values, I just dont have them because someone commands me to and threaten me with burning in eternal fire if I dont.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

ustabetinyfairypeople said:


> WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW Don't all of you atheist have ANYTHING better to do than crash every pro-God thread on here and rip it apart?? YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD. WE GET IT. KEEP IT ON YOUR ATHEIST THREADS AND LEAVE US CHRISTIANS ALONE.


You sound like you want it to be true that God is punishing you, but if he is you should never respect let alone worship someone who treats you like that, you shouldn't even give them an inch, its bad for your self esteem


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

As I said. I posted in the wrong section. I will not participate in this conversation. Peace out.


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm an atheist and this post isn't meant to offend anybody, but i have a question. if there is a god and hes perfect... is it just for him to punish people? i really dont think so... its not like he knows what its like to go through pain because hes perfect. it just doesn't make any sense why he would create temptations and "sins" and rules for us to abide by. if he was so perfect, he could have avoided any problems.


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## deadtoself (Apr 13, 2009)

guitarpwner said:


> I'm an atheist and this post isn't meant to offend anybody, but i have a question. if there is a god and hes perfect... is it just for him to punish people? i really dont think so... its not like he knows what its like to go through pain because hes perfect. it just doesn't make any sense why he would create temptations and "sins" and rules for us to abide by. if he was so perfect, he could have avoided any problems.


So... where does your sense of justice come from? Why are we, according to your view, the only "animals" that have that? It's because it's built into us, _because_ God is perfectly just. You want him to grade you on a curve. That _wouldn't_ be just. We've broken the moral laws (which, by the way, you can't reasonably explain as an atheist) against an infinitely holy God. We've done things that we knew were wrong. How did we know? Cuz we're created with a conscience. And yes, an all-knowing God _does_ know everything, even how we feel. He even came down in the person of Jesus and experienced it first hand. And he was perfectly obedient. And he submitted to being slaughtered, dying the death of the lowest, scum of the earth, dirtbag criminal, taking the full wrath of God that we deserve as sinners. Yes, all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. Don't reject your redeemer, he's your only hope. Every knee will bow one day, voluntarily or not.
Peace.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

That is so much brainwashed BULLSHIT.

Im just gonna leave this quote here:

_"I don't believe that anyone is qualified to determine that there is or isn't some magical being in the sky"

Are you serious? You don't think people are qualified to say there ISN'T a magical being in the sky?

What about dragons, unicorns, faeries, orcs, dwarves or elves? Am I qualified to say they don't exist? They are FANTASY. We all *know* that. Gods are, and always have been literary works of fiction. They are myth. Zeus, Ra, Pan, Osiris, and a list 10,000 long ... any doubt that Zeus was made up? Why do the current gods get a pass, when there's no more evidence for their existence than Zeus?

The reason atheists are speaking up, is because we're sick of seeing our society being dominated by Christian doctrine. If only the Christians are active, then you'll have a theocracy on your hands. Look at the middle east. No one can speak up against Islam, and so Islam runs the state, and women have to walk around in burkas.

I'm proud of my right to free speech, and I intend to use it._


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## deadtoself (Apr 13, 2009)

Inzom said:


> That is so much brainwashed BULLSHIT.
> 
> Im just gonna leave this quote here:
> 
> ...


I see, but no response, huh? It's cool. I urge you to use your God-given reason and find truth. Seriously man, you know my intentions are good. I don't have any hidden agenda. I _could_ take the easy way out and not beleive God, but I remember those days. No thanks.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

You guys sound like you are having too much fun







, let me throw a philosophical question in there to mess with your heads.... Is God capable of creating a rock so big that He can't carry it?

If a tree falls in the forrest and no one is there to hear it does it still make a sound?


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## deadtoself (Apr 13, 2009)

surfingisfun001 said:


> You guys sound like you are having too much fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


uh....







yeah, wait, no....







gotta go bye


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

man oh man, if i told any of you that your beliefs were wronge, would you change your beliefs because of it? of course not. this thread is nothing more than people saying my opinion is that your opinion is wronge. sweet jesus ya'll sound like a bunch of old politicians. shut up, respect each others views and drop the subject.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

lol, it's so much more fun to pretend we know everything though


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

surfingisfun001 said:


> lol, it's so much more fun to pretend we know everything though


lol, sooo true!


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

You are right Tommygunz. Respect is more important than arguing on the internetz. I just cant stop myself sometimes.

Prepare for political incorrectness:


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

OH MY GOD, that is the most hilarious/fucked up thing i've ever seen. i feel so bad for laughing but i can't help myself. the picture just takes it to a whole nother level!!!


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## Guest (Aug 3, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Is God capable of creating a rock so big that He can't carry it?


Freewill.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

deadtoself said:


> So... where does your sense of justice come from? Why are we, according to your view, the only "animals" that have that? It's because it's built into us, _because_ God is perfectly just. You want him to grade you on a curve. That _wouldn't_ be just. We've broken the moral laws (which, by the way, you can't reasonably explain as an atheist) against an infinitely holy God. We've done things that we knew were wrong. How did we know? Cuz we're created with a conscience. And yes, an all-knowing God _does_ know everything, even how we feel. He even came down in the person of Jesus and experienced it first hand. And he was perfectly obedient. And he submitted to being slaughtered, dying the death of the lowest, scum of the earth, dirtbag criminal, taking the full wrath of God that we deserve as sinners. Yes, all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. Don't reject your redeemer, he's your only hope. Every knee will bow one day, voluntarily or not.
> Peace.


Your conscience is subjective


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2010)

deadtoself said:


> So... where does your sense of justice come from? Why are we, according to your view, the only "animals" that have that? It's because it's built into us, _because_ God is perfectly just. You want him to grade you on a curve. That _wouldn't_ be just. We've broken the moral laws (which, by the way, you can't reasonably explain as an atheist) against an infinitely holy God. We've done things that we knew were wrong. How did we know? Cuz we're created with a conscience. And yes, an all-knowing God _does_ know everything, even how we feel. He even came down in the person of Jesus and experienced it first hand. And he was perfectly obedient. And he submitted to being slaughtered, dying the death of the lowest, scum of the earth, dirtbag criminal, taking the full wrath of God that we deserve as sinners. Yes, all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God. Don't reject your redeemer, he's your only hope. Every knee will bow one day, voluntarily or not.
> Peace.


lol..... thats the problem with christians.... trying to get people to believe through using the fear factor. face it man... you believe for comfort


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## deadtoself (Apr 13, 2009)

guitarpwner said:


> lol..... thats the problem with christians.... trying to get people to believe through using the fear factor. face it man... you believe for comfort


sorry dude, but believing in _atheism_ would be for comfort. i'd have no reason for morals. i'd eat, drink, and be merry. but i'd rather have truth than temporary comfort. peace.


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## Hoopesy (Dec 8, 2009)

Does any of this shit really matter? I mean these arguments get us nowhere. Believers need to acknowledge that they may very well be believing what they do for a false sense of comfort and that death could be the end of it all. Atheists need to acknowledge that there are many strange things in the human equation like the nature of consciousness and dreams so thoughts of something higher aren't that out there. I'm not saying you shouldn't ask these questions or even debate over them but don't turn it into a "my opinion is right and your opinion is wrong" thing. We should be searching for truth.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

LOL, reading this is always funny.

I don't care you say anything you want about god. I change my view every day. Right now I hate god and he can go fuck himself (if he can of course). Good night you all.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

EverDream said:


> LOL, reading this is always funny.
> 
> I don't care you say anything you want about god. I change my view every day. Right now I hate god and he can go fuck himself (if he can of course). Good night you all.


If god is omnipotent he can fuck himself no problem, and if he can do that why would he bother with us


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## Mushishi (May 31, 2010)

We punish ourselves.


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## SixStringRoad (Sep 4, 2010)

don't think of it as a punishment or a form of being doomed or it'll fuck your head up. think of it as a way to share with people who wish they had no emotion and were numb from the troubles of life. now we have the opportunity to tell them having no real emotion and being numbed out from the challenges in life isn't exactly what it seems. because emotions and challenges are what makes us grow to become better people in which others will remember us by when we pass away.


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## daniyellyshmoo (Dec 13, 2010)

lindsayloo said:


> God does punish his children, its just like you punishing your own,. you want them to learn ,and grow,being punished by the lord is a sign that he loves you, still ,and wants you to learn


i believe it..i keep thinking everything happens for a reason..that this is happening for a reason..i appreciate so much now,im ready to wake up..


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## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

Is that from the old testament or the new testament? I don't know about christianity but in judaism you're not supposed to take stuff literally always, there's interpertations and all that by religious leaders, that quote could mean anything.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> I think DP is a protection mechanism created by ourselves to try escape suffering, but by trying to cut ourselves off from pain we also cut ourselves off from all that is good like love or God and cause ourselves more suffering as a result, so I don't think God is punishing us but we are unintentionally punishing ourselves by cutting ourselves off from the natural flow of love and acceptance.
> 
> You could call it "sin" I guess that we do this because it comes from egotistical beliefs that we can control the world and avoid suffering but I prefer the buddhist terms without any associations of guilt involved that it is more down to ignorance or taking the wrong path without the right guidance or proper support.


Oops I was reading this and tried to give it a +1 but accidentally hit -1. Sorry Pablo. This is the second time that's happened. Grrr. I reported it and it should be reversed soon.


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## omniel (Dec 26, 2010)

i think it can sometimes be good to see it as a lesson.

really if we had learnt 'the lesson' we wouldnt be here


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2010)

omniel said:


> i think it can sometimes be good to see it as a lesson.
> 
> really if we had learnt 'the lesson' we wouldnt be here


Milton: "The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, and a hell of heaven."


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## joewolf (Dec 28, 2010)

If God does not discipline you as he does all his children, that means you are not legitimate and are not really his children anyway. Because we respect our earthly fathers who disciplined us, should we not more willingly submit to the discipline of our heavenly Father and live forever.


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## theoneandonly (Nov 17, 2010)

i don't get it though, why is he punishing _us_ with DP?

the people i've met on this forum are some of the most kind hearted people, yet there are terrible people out in this world (committing murders, rapes, theft, etc.) who get away with it living perfect lives.

if you're going to say that those people will be punished in hell, then why are we the ones being punished now?


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

theoneandonly said:


> i don't get it though, why is he punishing _us_ with DP?
> 
> the people i've met on this forum are some of the most kind hearted people, yet there are terrible people out in this world (committing murders, rapes, theft, etc.) who get away with it living perfect lives.
> 
> if you're going to say that those people will be punished in hell, then why are we the ones being punished now?


As far as I can see life isn't fair and there is no justice at all, which is why I am trying to learn how to "let go", otherwise I will remain angry and defiant at all the injustice and unnecessary suffering for the rest of my life which will only drive me more insane.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2011)

I dunno, maybe it's all relative.
From a godly perspective I guess its all perfectly moving patterns of matter and energy.
It's only us with our iddy-bitty viewpoints that it doesnt make sence to.

Just my opinion, but i dont believe God punishes us. No doubt in my mind. You're delt your hand and that's what you have. Just the way it is my friends.


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## Sleepwalker (Dec 4, 2008)

ustabetinyfairypeople said:


> I've heard so many people say that God doesn't punish you. That it's the devil. That dp couldn't be a punishment from God. I found these verses while reading the bible that confirm that God DOES in fact punish us.
> 
> Hebrews 12:7-13 says "As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Whoever heard of a child who was never disciplined? If God doesn't discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children after all. Since we respect our earthly fathers who disciplined us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to the discipline of our heavenly Father and live forever? For our earthly fathers disciplined us for a few years, doing the best they knew how. But God's discipline is always right and good for us because it means we will share in his holiness. No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening--it is painful! But afterward there will be a quiet harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way."
> 
> I can't help but wonder if dp is God's punishment to some of his children.


Actually, the context of those verses preceeding it explains it. The context is: follow Jesus' endurance in the face of persecution by enemies.

The verses before your quotation, the endurance of Jesus, (because of persecution by his enemies like the scribes and Pharisees), is held up as an example for the "Hebrew" Christians to whom Paul wrote.

Jesus' enemies persecuted Jesus because they hated what he stood for.
God did not make Jesus' enemies persecute Jesus but allowed it; still, Jesus _"learned obedience" (Heb1: 8 ) _that is, to the ultimate degree, from the things he suffered.
So it was for the Christians in your quotation. 
They were being persecuted like Jesus because their enemies hated what they stood for.
This was like discipline (or training) for them in obedience to their God. 
So, although God did not cause this persecution to them, it was his purpose to allow it to train them.
I don't think these verses apply to Dp or illness., in general.
God is "the giver of every good and perfect present"--James 1:16
He made paradise for us; and I believe he will restore it: 
_God "will wipe out every tear from *(mankind's) *eyes and death, mourning, *outcry and pain *will vanish"_--Rev 21:3,4.
Cheers


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## Guest (Feb 6, 2011)

Sleepwalker said:


> Actually, the context of those verses preceeding it explains it. The context is: follow Jesus' endurance in the face of persecution by enemies.
> 
> The verses before your quotation, the endurance of Jesus, (because of persecution by his enemies like the scribes and Pharisees), is held up as an example for the "Hebrew" Christians to whom Paul wrote.
> 
> ...


Im sorry, but I dont know what any of that means.


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## TheGame (Feb 1, 2011)

Ok GOD lovers.

Here's the delio. 
To have the belief in God is a faith - thing. Witch of course i lack of selflove. if you could put your faith anywhere that it has any real power it would be to put that faith within yourself. i am an agnostic witch mean i know that i dont know if god exists or not. And that he's suppsedly punishing only you? what would be the purpose for punishing a select few people only to have them recover and not give a shit about the disease afterward?

I wonder what otherwise so rational people are doing when they suddenly out of the blue start murmuring to a guy in the sky about their selfish needs and wants...

Ok im swedish and you guys are mostly american but i mean come on.

The talking snake and the virgin birth? come now...grow up face the fact your ill and that that has its root in your brain. Not that psychotic god bullshit...*sigh*


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