# K's Idea and exploration



## Kerio

According to the people who are diagnosed with Depersonalization Disorder, their cortisol levels are virtually non-existant, compared to the normal people who do not have this disorder. Cortisol is actually a sort of balance drug, which regulates your craving for carbohydrates. Sugar and caffeine are related to cortisol in that if you drink caffeine, your cortisol level rises, and you become slightly more energetic. If caffeine is combined with sugar, this rise increases to as much as 18 times (according to medical tests).

Now comes the tricky part. I believe people who suffer from depersonalization are classified into two types - both lead to the same disorder, but we come via different ways - one is through depression and anxiety, and the other is through trauma. Some may argue that the depression and anxiety could well be a byproduct of trauma, and I will have to agree on that. The difference between the two is that those who are inflicted with this disorder via depression and anxiety find some kind of cure with anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs like Prozac etc. For the ones who get inflicted through trauma (like me), these drugs actually WORSEN the disorder. I know this because I took an anti-depressant (caused by the disorder in part) prescribed an inept psychiatrist, and it worsened the disorder so badly that I thought I was going crazy. The entire world changed many folds over, and everything seemed hazy and strange, even to someone who has weathered this condition for over a decade and managed to get a pretty normal life.

Then here's the kicker. When I read about the cortisol levels and the effects of coffee and sugar, I tried it when the condition got worse when I was really tired and the disorder was starting to make me feel slightly confused. The effect managed to kick start my adrenaline and made me able to, at least for a while, lighten the effects of the disorder. However, this also made me crave bread. I managed to inhale a half-loaf in 15 minutes.

According to the studies, rises in cortisol levels make you crave carbohydrates, making you fat. So if this is the case, that would mean that it actually works, and my body isn't exactly resilient or adapted to the chemical. It just means that my BRAIN is. Cortisol alone is able to affect a number of functions, and the key is that although all other functions are still intact for us, the key one which links our experiences to reality has been somehow Severed.

According to more studies on cortisol, it highlights stress levels and susceptibility to adrenal fatigue like burn out or exhaustion. Cortisol increases under stress, raising blood glucose, breaking up muscle protein and fat for energy, and increasing responsiveness to effects of adrenaline and stimulating cardiac output. This is important, because most of DP sufferers say exercise works. I can vouchsafe for that. After an intense game of basketball or after my Karate lessons, I feel more invigorated and more alert than I usually do.

Besides that, another thing I once remarked during my Karate lessons is that my fight or flight responses seem to be dulled, for some reason. Cortisol actually is the regulator of this response. Stress elevates cortisol levels almost 10-fold, making people susceptible to diseases like diabetes and obesity due to the sudden food cravings. And here is the Key Point : Over-elevated Cortisol levels can actually impair cognition due to cortisol induced damage to the hippocampus, the area of the brain vital for learning and memory. It also leads to depression and insomnia.

Cortisol is caused by stress. Unfortunately, we have too low levels of cortisol, which means instead of feeling alert and awake during times of duress, we instead maintain the same fluffy warmness and surrealness we feel all the time. This probably defines DP. When we feel stressed, we get confused and uncomfortable, because our cortisol is unable to raise up to counter the stresses we feel.

Since depression and stress shrinks the brains, it's not entirely strange to find that most DP sufferers are actually highly intelligent and inquisitive. In fact, instead of thinking outside the box like most people, we live outside the box in it's entirety. To us, thinking inside the box is the challenge. This will probably lead to another field of studies in order to get people to be more creative, I'm sure.

That said, cortisol may be the key thing in regulating and stirring the other person within us.

I have another observation I'd like to point out. REM is closely related to DP - we all know this because we all feel in a state of dreaminess constantly (for the chronic sufferers, anyway), and the interesting thing is, when we panic, REM actually occurs. Have you tried to focus on any One Single Thing when you panic? You'll realise your pupils are moving so quickly your vision seems shaky and unreal. In other words, REM is related to brain responses of threat, which should have instinctively made you react, but people who have gone through trauma are so used to being under pressure, stress, and general threat that the fight or flight response has burnt itself into our brains (Or to be more accurate, the response electolyte has fused), and constantly living under this condition has made us adapt to the response. I, for one, have become mellowed due to the fact that I don't even react when threatened severely. (Hence I took up Karate)
The only way around this, I believe, is to unlearn the way we don't respond to threat, by simply learning to respond to threat. This will not raise the veil of dreams, but at least it will make us more...well, able to survive, if it comes to that.
I've heard many theories that it may be a condition that we can actually choose to forgo, if my mind was somehow stronger. It's like losing weight--we just have to put our mind to it.
My theory is based on evolutionary theorum. I realise that for most people, it's a direct result of trauma suffered as a child or adult. For most people, it's childhood trauma. Because of this, I believe that it is a conditioned...erm...condition. When we burn our fingers, a blister forms, filled with water to soften and cushion and protect the injury. A clot forms on an open wound. Body parts fall off when frost-bite sets in. The human body finds ways to survive and continue to live.
Because of the trauma, our minds may have developed a certain 'detachment', a certain escape route into an alternate reality, where everything seems softened, less sharp, less real, to protect itself from trauma. By regulating certain chemicals in the body, like how we feel "full" when we eat. But like obese people who have grown somehow immune to the chemical, we could have easily become able to ignore the raise in the levels of that particular bodily reaction.
So if that is the case, then to beat this insensitivity, we should adopt the same method as the obese people in treating their own sicknesses, which is to dance sensual dances while pretending to be ballet dancers.
Oh eewww. I made myself sick typing that.
Actually, there is no known cure, because there's nothing clearly wrong with the body--it's just that we've been exposed too much to it that we become insensitized. I suppose Trauma is really just that ? overexposure to a certain chemical in the brain that makes us imbalanced. Instead of being able to respond to an influx of that chemical when threat presents itself, we become so used to it that we don?t respond to it all all. Morever, that particular chemical can damage the brain when excess of it is produced, and therefore in a way, we have had our brains ?injured? due to the excess of the chemical, and are unable to fully utilise our sensory perceptions.
So in other words, finding the opposite of trance inducing drugs like Ecstasy, etc, will also mean a ways of heightening consiousness and alleviating us from this ailment, since these drugs cause DP. But it'll also mean dependency and addiction, because just as the trance-inducing drugs are addictive, the opposites will mean a strong bounce to reality, and a sink into deeper trances, like bouncing forcibly in the water. The other thing is that instead of working to find ways to remove some chemical or add some chemical to the brain, perhaps we should work on developing some kind of bypass to utilise another part of our brains, or perhaps some kind of substance that will actually heal the injury. 
The first thing, however, will be to assess where the injury is located, that we may cure it. How does one stimulate that particular part of the brain? Will stimulation alone work? Why is electrotherapy so subjective in it?s success rate? What about hibernation? Will a prolonged shut down of the human mind assist in it?s repair?
All of this will remain theory until proven otherwise.


----------



## Kerio

According to the people who are diagnosed with Depersonalization Disorder, their cortisol levels are virtually non-existant, compared to the normal people who do not have this disorder. Cortisol is actually a sort of balance drug, which regulates your craving for carbohydrates. Sugar and caffeine are related to cortisol in that if you drink caffeine, your cortisol level rises, and you become slightly more energetic. If caffeine is combined with sugar, this rise increases to as much as 18 times (according to medical tests).

Now comes the tricky part. I believe people who suffer from depersonalization are classified into two types - both lead to the same disorder, but we come via different ways - one is through depression and anxiety, and the other is through trauma. Some may argue that the depression and anxiety could well be a byproduct of trauma, and I will have to agree on that. The difference between the two is that those who are inflicted with this disorder via depression and anxiety find some kind of cure with anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs like Prozac etc. For the ones who get inflicted through trauma (like me), these drugs actually WORSEN the disorder. I know this because I took an anti-depressant (caused by the disorder in part) prescribed an inept psychiatrist, and it worsened the disorder so badly that I thought I was going crazy. The entire world changed many folds over, and everything seemed hazy and strange, even to someone who has weathered this condition for over a decade and managed to get a pretty normal life.

Then here's the kicker. When I read about the cortisol levels and the effects of coffee and sugar, I tried it when the condition got worse when I was really tired and the disorder was starting to make me feel slightly confused. The effect managed to kick start my adrenaline and made me able to, at least for a while, lighten the effects of the disorder. However, this also made me crave bread. I managed to inhale a half-loaf in 15 minutes.

According to the studies, rises in cortisol levels make you crave carbohydrates, making you fat. So if this is the case, that would mean that it actually works, and my body isn't exactly resilient or adapted to the chemical. It just means that my BRAIN is. Cortisol alone is able to affect a number of functions, and the key is that although all other functions are still intact for us, the key one which links our experiences to reality has been somehow Severed.

According to more studies on cortisol, it highlights stress levels and susceptibility to adrenal fatigue like burn out or exhaustion. Cortisol increases under stress, raising blood glucose, breaking up muscle protein and fat for energy, and increasing responsiveness to effects of adrenaline and stimulating cardiac output. This is important, because most of DP sufferers say exercise works. I can vouchsafe for that. After an intense game of basketball or after my Karate lessons, I feel more invigorated and more alert than I usually do.

Besides that, another thing I once remarked during my Karate lessons is that my fight or flight responses seem to be dulled, for some reason. Cortisol actually is the regulator of this response. Stress elevates cortisol levels almost 10-fold, making people susceptible to diseases like diabetes and obesity due to the sudden food cravings. And here is the Key Point : Over-elevated Cortisol levels can actually impair cognition due to cortisol induced damage to the hippocampus, the area of the brain vital for learning and memory. It also leads to depression and insomnia.

Cortisol is caused by stress. Unfortunately, we have too low levels of cortisol, which means instead of feeling alert and awake during times of duress, we instead maintain the same fluffy warmness and surrealness we feel all the time. This probably defines DP. When we feel stressed, we get confused and uncomfortable, because our cortisol is unable to raise up to counter the stresses we feel.

Since depression and stress shrinks the brains, it's not entirely strange to find that most DP sufferers are actually highly intelligent and inquisitive. In fact, instead of thinking outside the box like most people, we live outside the box in it's entirety. To us, thinking inside the box is the challenge. This will probably lead to another field of studies in order to get people to be more creative, I'm sure.

That said, cortisol may be the key thing in regulating and stirring the other person within us.

I have another observation I'd like to point out. REM is closely related to DP - we all know this because we all feel in a state of dreaminess constantly (for the chronic sufferers, anyway), and the interesting thing is, when we panic, REM actually occurs. Have you tried to focus on any One Single Thing when you panic? You'll realise your pupils are moving so quickly your vision seems shaky and unreal. In other words, REM is related to brain responses of threat, which should have instinctively made you react, but people who have gone through trauma are so used to being under pressure, stress, and general threat that the fight or flight response has burnt itself into our brains (Or to be more accurate, the response electolyte has fused), and constantly living under this condition has made us adapt to the response. I, for one, have become mellowed due to the fact that I don't even react when threatened severely. (Hence I took up Karate)
The only way around this, I believe, is to unlearn the way we don't respond to threat, by simply learning to respond to threat. This will not raise the veil of dreams, but at least it will make us more...well, able to survive, if it comes to that.
I've heard many theories that it may be a condition that we can actually choose to forgo, if my mind was somehow stronger. It's like losing weight--we just have to put our mind to it.
My theory is based on evolutionary theorum. I realise that for most people, it's a direct result of trauma suffered as a child or adult. For most people, it's childhood trauma. Because of this, I believe that it is a conditioned...erm...condition. When we burn our fingers, a blister forms, filled with water to soften and cushion and protect the injury. A clot forms on an open wound. Body parts fall off when frost-bite sets in. The human body finds ways to survive and continue to live.
Because of the trauma, our minds may have developed a certain 'detachment', a certain escape route into an alternate reality, where everything seems softened, less sharp, less real, to protect itself from trauma. By regulating certain chemicals in the body, like how we feel "full" when we eat. But like obese people who have grown somehow immune to the chemical, we could have easily become able to ignore the raise in the levels of that particular bodily reaction.
So if that is the case, then to beat this insensitivity, we should adopt the same method as the obese people in treating their own sicknesses, which is to dance sensual dances while pretending to be ballet dancers.
Oh eewww. I made myself sick typing that.
Actually, there is no known cure, because there's nothing clearly wrong with the body--it's just that we've been exposed too much to it that we become insensitized. I suppose Trauma is really just that ? overexposure to a certain chemical in the brain that makes us imbalanced. Instead of being able to respond to an influx of that chemical when threat presents itself, we become so used to it that we don?t respond to it all all. Morever, that particular chemical can damage the brain when excess of it is produced, and therefore in a way, we have had our brains ?injured? due to the excess of the chemical, and are unable to fully utilise our sensory perceptions.
So in other words, finding the opposite of trance inducing drugs like Ecstasy, etc, will also mean a ways of heightening consiousness and alleviating us from this ailment, since these drugs cause DP. But it'll also mean dependency and addiction, because just as the trance-inducing drugs are addictive, the opposites will mean a strong bounce to reality, and a sink into deeper trances, like bouncing forcibly in the water. The other thing is that instead of working to find ways to remove some chemical or add some chemical to the brain, perhaps we should work on developing some kind of bypass to utilise another part of our brains, or perhaps some kind of substance that will actually heal the injury. 
The first thing, however, will be to assess where the injury is located, that we may cure it. How does one stimulate that particular part of the brain? Will stimulation alone work? Why is electrotherapy so subjective in it?s success rate? What about hibernation? Will a prolonged shut down of the human mind assist in it?s repair?
All of this will remain theory until proven otherwise.


----------



## shadowness

wow!

that was one hell of a read!

briiliant!

thank you for posting all this...

i am going to have to read it a few more times to remember what was said though (bad concentration and memory :roll: )

what i find difficult is that i had a traumatic experience from tablets which were for anxiety and depression :? so where do i stand?

thank you again for putting up these issues though...


----------



## shadowness

wow!

that was one hell of a read!

briiliant!

thank you for posting all this...

i am going to have to read it a few more times to remember what was said though (bad concentration and memory :roll: )

what i find difficult is that i had a traumatic experience from tablets which were for anxiety and depression :? so where do i stand?

thank you again for putting up these issues though...


----------



## Kerio

I suppose it could be considered a type of trauma, or if put in a more appropriate but less gentle manner, a type of brain-damage. Excess of any type of thing will damage the body or mind - we work on a fairly fragile balance, which requires maintainence from time to time, be it relieving of stress, etcetc.

Perhaps for those who incur drug-induced DP, the symptoms may stay around for some time, unless your brain can somehow "repair" itself. I have had Chronic DP for more than a decade now, and I mean this in no disheartening manner. I am still searching for ways to heal the brain, after discovering what i had is DP 2 weeks ago.

This is just an idea, but here goes :

People who have been rescued from fires but have inhaled too much smoke sometimes present signs of confusion or difficulty in cohesion. These victims usually have to go through a somewhat intensive period in the hospital breathing almost pure oxygen. (Or was it totally pure?)

Similarly in people who suffer from decompression sickness, signs of confusion settle in.

Could it be, and this is still a theory, that the same treatment can benefit us? After all, lack of sleep usually worsens DP, and lack of sleep is associated with less oxygen being taken in. I've noticed that when I'm really sleepy, my breathing becomes shallow and sometimes I can stop breathing for a few seconds (unconsciously). This usually sends me into a deeper DP Trance than usual, until I take a deep breath, and the world suddenly seems to 'light up'. Since we feel generally lethargic most of the time, could oxygen treatment help?

Has anyone tried it yet?


----------



## Kerio

I suppose it could be considered a type of trauma, or if put in a more appropriate but less gentle manner, a type of brain-damage. Excess of any type of thing will damage the body or mind - we work on a fairly fragile balance, which requires maintainence from time to time, be it relieving of stress, etcetc.

Perhaps for those who incur drug-induced DP, the symptoms may stay around for some time, unless your brain can somehow "repair" itself. I have had Chronic DP for more than a decade now, and I mean this in no disheartening manner. I am still searching for ways to heal the brain, after discovering what i had is DP 2 weeks ago.

This is just an idea, but here goes :

People who have been rescued from fires but have inhaled too much smoke sometimes present signs of confusion or difficulty in cohesion. These victims usually have to go through a somewhat intensive period in the hospital breathing almost pure oxygen. (Or was it totally pure?)

Similarly in people who suffer from decompression sickness, signs of confusion settle in.

Could it be, and this is still a theory, that the same treatment can benefit us? After all, lack of sleep usually worsens DP, and lack of sleep is associated with less oxygen being taken in. I've noticed that when I'm really sleepy, my breathing becomes shallow and sometimes I can stop breathing for a few seconds (unconsciously). This usually sends me into a deeper DP Trance than usual, until I take a deep breath, and the world suddenly seems to 'light up'. Since we feel generally lethargic most of the time, could oxygen treatment help?

Has anyone tried it yet?


----------



## Kerio

Further surveys : Most DP sufferers have this problem of being over-analytical. Over-rationalising.

Why is that a problem?

In some threads they profess that thinking and acting spontaneously helps to "repersonalize" yourself. Just by stopping your thinking and acting on whim, you can cure yourself! It's like magic!

It doesn't work for me, though. I've tried whim-behaving for months without actually thinking about it. I've lost weight, took up sports, started writing a fantasy book, gotten a new job, all kinds of stuff - and I still feel that veil covering my head.

Strange that some people can actually "unthink" themselves out of DP, if that makes any sense.

Oh hey, wait a min. If over-analysis about one's identity and self makes one DPed, does that imply that the part of the brain which evolved to teach the image of "self" is actually so newly developed that it can slip when the correct neurons click into place? Kinda like a jigsaw puzzle which disassembles itself?

And what about the totally self-absorbed nature in which other people behave? Are we really ready for all that kind of "selfishness"? Do I really WANT to be like that?

What kind of person am I, really? How can I be myself without knowing who I am? :?


----------



## Kerio

Further surveys : Most DP sufferers have this problem of being over-analytical. Over-rationalising.

Why is that a problem?

In some threads they profess that thinking and acting spontaneously helps to "repersonalize" yourself. Just by stopping your thinking and acting on whim, you can cure yourself! It's like magic!

It doesn't work for me, though. I've tried whim-behaving for months without actually thinking about it. I've lost weight, took up sports, started writing a fantasy book, gotten a new job, all kinds of stuff - and I still feel that veil covering my head.

Strange that some people can actually "unthink" themselves out of DP, if that makes any sense.

Oh hey, wait a min. If over-analysis about one's identity and self makes one DPed, does that imply that the part of the brain which evolved to teach the image of "self" is actually so newly developed that it can slip when the correct neurons click into place? Kinda like a jigsaw puzzle which disassembles itself?

And what about the totally self-absorbed nature in which other people behave? Are we really ready for all that kind of "selfishness"? Do I really WANT to be like that?

What kind of person am I, really? How can I be myself without knowing who I am? :?


----------



## stephenmacks

hello,
i have derealization and have had this problem since taking lsd in 1990.
i also have very low cortisol levels, i had them mesured using a 4 point saliva test to mesure adrenal function(this test is cheap and easily avalable on the net, do a search). i take isocort which increases cortisol early days yet.
i think there is something in what has been said.
have a test.
trauma and low cortisol=derealization

good luck
stephen macks


----------



## stephenmacks

hello,
i have derealization and have had this problem since taking lsd in 1990.
i also have very low cortisol levels, i had them mesured using a 4 point saliva test to mesure adrenal function(this test is cheap and easily avalable on the net, do a search). i take isocort which increases cortisol early days yet.
i think there is something in what has been said.
have a test.
trauma and low cortisol=derealization

good luck
stephen macks


----------



## Guest

What about: Trauma results in low cortisol=derealisation?


----------



## Guest

What about: Trauma results in low cortisol=derealisation?


----------



## Kerio

A query for studies sake : When I suffer from DR, I realise that certain thoughts go haywire. My brain gets confused, and when I try to 'steady' my brain and focus, I see a 'plastic' world. This may imply that I was doing something that inadvertently led to that. Perhaps not immediate cause and effect, like thinking about puppies and getting DRed (Just an example -_-'') but perhaps something like eating something wrong at breakfast, and then the DR sinking in at around 3 pm.

So do you guys actually realise you're brains are going "haywire" right before DR hits?


----------



## Kerio

A query for studies sake : When I suffer from DR, I realise that certain thoughts go haywire. My brain gets confused, and when I try to 'steady' my brain and focus, I see a 'plastic' world. This may imply that I was doing something that inadvertently led to that. Perhaps not immediate cause and effect, like thinking about puppies and getting DRed (Just an example -_-'') but perhaps something like eating something wrong at breakfast, and then the DR sinking in at around 3 pm.

So do you guys actually realise you're brains are going "haywire" right before DR hits?


----------



## grant_r

Kerio said:


> Since depression and stress shrinks the brains, it's not entirely strange to find that most DP sufferers are actually highly intelligent and inquisitive. In fact, instead of thinking outside the box like most people, we live outside the box in it's entirety. To us, thinking inside the box is the challenge.


Very well put, my friend.


----------



## grant_r

Kerio said:


> Since depression and stress shrinks the brains, it's not entirely strange to find that most DP sufferers are actually highly intelligent and inquisitive. In fact, instead of thinking outside the box like most people, we live outside the box in it's entirety. To us, thinking inside the box is the challenge.


Very well put, my friend.


----------



## England's_Dreaming

Hello,

Thanks a lot for your theory - very interesting to read. One of the chaps that replied to your first post mentioned the 4 point saliva test to measure adrenal function. I am off on a search right now to buy the test for myself. I would be very interested to find out how Stephen Macks got on.

Love, Jacqueline


----------



## England's_Dreaming

Hello,

Thanks a lot for your theory - very interesting to read. One of the chaps that replied to your first post mentioned the 4 point saliva test to measure adrenal function. I am off on a search right now to buy the test for myself. I would be very interested to find out how Stephen Macks got on.

Love, Jacqueline


----------



## stephenmacks

it is early days for me as regard to increasing my cortisol levels,
but there is quite a bit of stuff on the net about cortisol, do a search on adrenal fatigue this will bring up loads of stuff,also try to get hold of a copy of james wilsons book adrenal fatigue and there is also stuff about it on dr lam's website.
i take isocort, easly avaiable on the web plus adrenal rebuilder and adrenal c formula on james wilsons site. i live in the uk so the last 2 were quite expencive with the postage and tax but the isocort can be bought in the uk from synergy health.
do not drink cofee or caffine try and rest and follow the protocols of wilson or dr lam.
the strange thing about me is that my cortisol levels are very low but my dhea levels are vey high. i have also had a blood test for testosterone and the results are also low, im waiting for the results of my second test to confirm my levels and maybe i will start testoterone threapy using hormone patches.
also i have allergies this is another very common problem for people with low cortisol/adrenal fatigue.
iam from manchester in the uk and would wellcome any contact from people in the uk with this problem.
[email protected]

take care 
stephen macks


----------



## stephenmacks

it is early days for me as regard to increasing my cortisol levels,
but there is quite a bit of stuff on the net about cortisol, do a search on adrenal fatigue this will bring up loads of stuff,also try to get hold of a copy of james wilsons book adrenal fatigue and there is also stuff about it on dr lam's website.
i take isocort, easly avaiable on the web plus adrenal rebuilder and adrenal c formula on james wilsons site. i live in the uk so the last 2 were quite expencive with the postage and tax but the isocort can be bought in the uk from synergy health.
do not drink cofee or caffine try and rest and follow the protocols of wilson or dr lam.
the strange thing about me is that my cortisol levels are very low but my dhea levels are vey high. i have also had a blood test for testosterone and the results are also low, im waiting for the results of my second test to confirm my levels and maybe i will start testoterone threapy using hormone patches.
also i have allergies this is another very common problem for people with low cortisol/adrenal fatigue.
iam from manchester in the uk and would wellcome any contact from people in the uk with this problem.
[email protected]

take care 
stephen macks


----------



## stephenmacks

i had my test done by androbalance.co.uk
stephen macks


----------



## stephenmacks

i had my test done by androbalance.co.uk
stephen macks


----------



## stephenmacks

androbalance.co.uk

stephenmacks


----------



## stephenmacks

androbalance.co.uk

stephenmacks


----------



## DutchMark

Kerio said:


> Could it be, and this is still a theory, that the same treatment can benefit us? After all, lack of sleep usually worsens DP, and lack of sleep is associated with less oxygen being taken in. I've noticed that when I'm really sleepy, my breathing becomes shallow and sometimes I can stop breathing for a few seconds (unconsciously). This usually sends me into a deeper DP Trance than usual, until I take a deep breath, and the world suddenly seems to 'light up'. Since we feel generally lethargic most of the time, could oxygen treatment help?


In the old forum there was this guy who suffered from DP due to sleep apnea, his DP was gone afther the problem was treated


----------



## DutchMark

Kerio said:


> Could it be, and this is still a theory, that the same treatment can benefit us? After all, lack of sleep usually worsens DP, and lack of sleep is associated with less oxygen being taken in. I've noticed that when I'm really sleepy, my breathing becomes shallow and sometimes I can stop breathing for a few seconds (unconsciously). This usually sends me into a deeper DP Trance than usual, until I take a deep breath, and the world suddenly seems to 'light up'. Since we feel generally lethargic most of the time, could oxygen treatment help?


In the old forum there was this guy who suffered from DP due to sleep apnea, his DP was gone afther the problem was treated


----------



## Guest

Kerio, I have trouble accepting some of your conclusions.

Example, your refference to cortisol. There exist link between anxiety and high level of cortisols more so than any links between dp and low level of cortisol. Beside that, low level fo cortisol could be an adaptation by the body, as a response. In short, low level of cortisol could as well be seen as a way by the body to cope with dp, rather than being a factor creating depersonalization.

I already have been on cortisone treatments for another condition, and you could as well ask to people that have been on cortisone... on it, dp worsten A LOT, depersonalization could be a symptom of high level of cortisol... in fact, when in a stressfull period, one of the causes that will make someone feel disconnected while being over-alert, is an increase of cortisol levels... while you disconnect from yourself, you connect with other stimulis. Actualy, one of the causes of depersonalization could very well be a hypersensibility of cortisol, and the body to cope with it, will try to compensate by decreasing the messagers to the adrenal gland.

Someone not being dp, give him doses of cortisol, you'll see him/her describing exactly what are the symptoms of depersonalization. Your short term memory is down cappoot, you feel like a walking zombie.

REM sleep, here you may have a point, in the fact that REM could have a role in depersonalization, it is pretty well known and studied that REM causes depersonalization, in fact, it is important for the creation of the dream world and the representation of the self in a dream, to be distached from the "I" connected to the body. If some here had already a sleep paralysis that will follow with a lucid dream with an OBE... they'll discribe the stages, from paralysis, to a distachment, and then disconnection etc... Now, my disagreement about REM. I have seen no evidences to date which will link REM to Panic, REM shuts any volontary muscles... if you could enter in REM during a panic, you'll have muscles in your body shuting down, creating a partial or a total paralysis... which could result of a colapse. There is a condition called Narcolepsy, a sleep disorder which does just that, it is called Cataplexy. Narcolepsics during a strong emotion have an intrusion of REM, which will cause some volontary muscles to shut down.

I do not say that REM may not have its role, I am saying that the explanation of a typical REM alone is not enough to support what you are implying. Maybe dp people have a disregulation of REM, this is quite possible and likely, because of the fact that REM waves that are very close to awake brain waves may be mixed with eachothers and passes as incognito. To know the possibility of such a theses, dped should be poled, to know if they display any REM disregulations, such as sleep paralysis, and signe of muscle paralysis during strong emotions etc...

Another way, is to have a puncture of the scephalorachidian liquide and compare the concentration of orexin with a control group.

Now about troma and brain dommage, I have a problem here too with your theses. Many people have tromas, but a minority displays depersonalization, and if you had no accident, it is unlikely to have a brain domage due to an accident. I do believe that troma may have a role among predisposed people to developpe, here I am excluding dp due to drug uses BTW. It could be a multiple enviromental, coupled with genetic predispositions, and even have part auto-immune etc...


----------



## Guest

Another thing I forgot to note... it is true that REM happens when cortisol levels dicrease at night, but the reason is still unclear if it is because of the mechanism involving this is the cause rather than cortisol itself


----------



## Guest

Oh I forgot to add about the mechanism in question. My searcher believe that the opioid system has a role in dp... and the opioid system has a role in the secretion of cortisol... so the reason why many dp people have low cortisol could be explanned by this. In a study published in the _Journal of Psychopharmacology_ The have used naloxone as a treatment for dp. They've concluded: _The therapeutic effect of naloxone provides evidence for the role of the endogenous opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization._ During the experiment the secretion of cortisol has been modified. So the modification and anomaly in the regulation of cortisol among dped people could be cause by a disregulation of the opioid system.


----------



## Guest

Kerio, this may be off topic. I have read your story, the old man is a bsterd pce of st. No child in the world should be treated like that.


----------



## Kerio

Hey there! Thanks for the sentiments about my old man. I assure you, I feel the same way. 

Anyways, you do provide some very interesting points to note, especially the part about cortisol. Since most people say that cortisol is a regulatory of the Fight or Flight response, and the term "hypersensitivity" comes to mind.

Most Dpers have problems with anxiety and panic right? (I mean, everyone has a problem with it, but not to the extent of letting it becoming a disorder) So that may mean that rises in Cortisol will make the DP worse. I've been trying to find cortisol so I can test out this theory, but thus far I've been unsuccessful, as I live in an Asian country, which isn't big on the lesser known western medicines.

So here's the whole thing in summary : People who are more genetically-predisposed to dissassociate AND suffer trauma, will more likely be DPed, mainly because over-excretion of cortisol made the nerves more sensitive to cortisol and therefore resulted in the person dissassociating or becoming Depersonalised. In other words, because of our genes and trauma (Or not), there is now an abnormal secretion of cortisol in our bodies, resulting in us being in a constant state of fluffiness.

I think this theory is more plausible, as the theory I had seemed to contradict itself in some parts.

Besides that, the REM theory is just an observation : When you're terrified, your eyeballs "Shake". Vision becomes obscured because you can't focus properly. If you look at REM in Sleep, it becomes apparent that there are similarities to actual terror induced REM.

There are people who wake up in the middle of the night with their muscles tensed up, screaming from a nightmare, and I've woken up in cold sweat more than once. If REM induces involuntary muscle shut-down, then by rights when I was dreaming, my muscles should not have tensed at all. But terror, I think, over-rides this instinct to shut down the muscle systems.

In other words, will you run, fight, or sleep?

Also, when I use the term REM, I use it loosely, not in Sleep Rapid Eye Movement, but just Rapid Eye Movement, in general. If we could somehow induce feelings of panic in a person and watch his eyeballs...


----------



## DutchMark

some personanal info here maybe its useful:
Since my DP kicked in I dream much more real and often, Dreams usualy apear in REM

Also since I have DP I can't handle the impact of a simple sigaret the way i used to, smoking increases cortisol levels


----------



## Kerio

Interesting how it actually relates : Some DP sufferers like me remember our dreams more vividly than our actual lives. The margin between dreams and real-life seems to be blurred for us. A cause for more study, I'm sure. (Waggles eyebrows)


----------



## Guest

Kerio - I have been on a personal quest to explore correlation of PTSD sufferers to long time Dp sufferers like ourselves. I think it dovetails a bit with your theory but comes from my own personal experiences so everyone might not agree. It goes like this:

PTSD - sufferers have short term DP like symptoms due to a horrific tragedy - their flight mechanism has put them into this temporary Dp cocoon

Since I first went into DP after my first panic attack in eighth grade (I'm now 31 and have Dped ever since) i was just like the PTSD guy in that my mis-wired flight mechanism put me in that same foul & thick DP cocoon

Initially thinking about DP made me anxious and often triggered more panic attacks causing more avoidance behavior and continued long term DP

I went so long without dealing with it, my brain built a brick wall around the DP and anxiety to protect me from them both because I lumped them together as a common condition

Since I've learned to manage panic and anxiety, I need to find a way to break down that proverbial wall and allow myself to cut through that cocoon.

Whether the answer is Drugs, rationalization,deep sleep who knows.

One other point of interest that leads me to think sleep is tied in much like you said. When I was a young boy I used to have Night Terrors (felt much like DP) - I would awake from a bad dream and stay in the dream state even in wakefullness - my dream crept back into reality. The cortisol level imabalnces could have affected my sleep at a young age (I was always tired even as a boy), and led me down a slippery path of exhaustion, panic and eventually DP. People with Sleep deprivation often feel symptoms similar to DP

Suggestion - google London INstitute of Psychiatry Depersonalization Unit as they havve done a few minor studies one of which examines brain waves in folks like us. Results clearly show we have increased and decreased activity in certin areas of the brain.

Sorry for the verbal barfing but its 11:45 and I need to get some shut eye - 8 hours for me equals 4 hours for the normal guy

Keep on with your solid thinking. We'll solve this riddle. I think its like solving the DNA riddle - we have all of the proteins, we just need to figure out how they fit together in a DP double helix.


----------



## nayashi

wait wait wait...did you say that most people with DP have low cortisol levels, and cortisol makes you craves carbs, and therefor people with DP don't crave carbs as much?

i don't know, i'm confused. but if that's true, that's very strange because i have very severe DP and my favorite food is toast, and ALL i crave are carbs...

hmm...


----------



## Kerio

Hm..Actually, I've been thinking about this, because I have the same problem, and the recent replies have given me a new idea on this.

Either we have a decreased sensitivity to cortisol, meaning that our brain does not react to cortisol whereas our body does, or our body may actually feel the lack of cortisol and hence lead to us subconsciously trying to simulate the cortisol surge.

Both are radically different theories, but they are still theories. I shall await scientific and medical exploration on this, but thus far I have confirmed two things : Sleep and REM are related to the DP sufferer's panic and anxiety, and that cortisol is a significant MARK, not cause or effect, of a DP sufferer. In other words, Cortisol may be the Tag to differentiate normal people from DP sufferers, but the key, I believe, does not lie simply in regulating Cortisol, but rather the nerves in our brains which accept the signal of cortisol surges.

We need to find out exactly how brain waves "communicate" in order to find out how to 'reconnect' the brain to cortisol changes. This, I believe, may be also beneficial to blind or deaf people, since vision and hearing are based on very much the same electro-something study.


----------



## Guest

You may onto something serious here. People with DP/DR often suffer from Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Yes its embarassing. But consider this. Digestion is regulated by opiod levels in the gut. Too few opiods and you can become constipated. Too many and you have diarrea. I know this is gross but hang in there with me. I recently wen't on the male trial of Zelnorm for my IBS and it works!!! Guess what Zelnorm is? An Opiod Antagonist!!! Unfortunately it only acts on the opiod imbalances in the gut. After reading you're post, "Don't Know", I'm tempted to try your suggested med. Do you have any link to the research on it? Of course the connection pre-supposes that IBS, Anxiety and DP/DR are all correlated but I don't think that's a big jump.


----------



## David

Just came across this thread and there's some very interesting stuff here, especially in Kerio's original post.

You might be intersted to know that the DP research unit in London is conducting tests into Cortisol:

"Hormone Stress Response in Depersonalisation Disorder
We have previously found that patients with depersonalisation disorder have low basal Cortisol (measured in saliva) as compared with patients with major depression. In order to identify the possible mechanism for this reduction we are currently carrying out an extended study using a dexamethasone suppression test and more frequent saliva sampling."

I got an appointment with the DP research unit recently. Their latest thinking is that depersonalisation is related to anxiety and can be understood the same way as the ?fight or flight? response.

When the body perceives a specific threat it heightens the senses and makes the body ready to fight or run by pumping adrenalin etc. Depersonalisation is the response to a general threat that cannot be overcome or that the individual cannot (or feels they cannot) do anything about it. The body is trying to dull your senses to make the current unpleasant situation recede.

What happens is that the emotional centre of the brain is dulled while the more rational part continue to function. When we see or feel something the sense goes jointly into the brain. Both process it. One tells you what something is, what to do with it etc, but the emotional part gives you an emotional connection to it eg I like this, I have seen this before. This is backed up research which shows patients suffering from DP fail to activate brain regions associated with perceptions of emotion when shown unpleasant pictures.

This explains many of the symptoms of depersonalisation. You know what you are doing but have no emotional reaction to it which is why things appear flat and two-dimensional or, for eg, you seem not to ?recognise? emotionally familiar people or surroundings. It also explains the disembodied voice ? you recognise the voice but don?t connect to it emotionally.

So we should understand DP not as an illness but as heightened use of a normal bodily process. The original anxiety may no longer exist ? there is a cycle of anxiety increasing DP increasing anxiety etc. After a while the DP can exist on its own. You can go into remission and lose the DP for a while but then it comes back when the body experiences anxiety, which then ?remembers? the DP.

A long post, but I thought people would be interested - this makes a lot of sense to me.

David


----------



## Guest

Hi,

thanks David for your post. It's bizarre, I make a test showing cortisol levels, and my levels were in the 500 (I really don't remember what was 500.. ) but my doc told me it was a little little bit higher than the average. So I don't have low cortisol levels ! :shock:

Cyn xxx


----------



## Kerio

Thanks David. It sounds extremely plausible to me. A totally new way of looking at this condition may help to cure it. Also, looking at it from the POV that it is a heightened physiological response is really interesting, since I've always said that DP may be an advantage in certain fields, particularly if you're, say, a martial artist practitioner - the inability to express facial emotions and the inability to clearly 'recognise' pain, all point to the fact that this condition is a condition Tailored to help the individual in a physical fight of some kind.

Great Post, and let us all fight this dream while we still can.


----------



## Guest

Dave - good post. I think your theory dovetails with PTSD sufferers who get Dp/DR. When faced with an extreme event, the flight mechanism is triggered in a mis-wired fashion that sets up the DP/DR as an emotional barrier from overwhelming anxiety. So perhaps all of us that originally had DP/DR triggered by anxiety or panic are just like PTSD patients and our "tragedy" or trauma is just the panic itself. For those who were triggered through Drug use, perhaps the brain viewed the "high" feelings as a trauma of sorts and did the same sort of shift. Just a thought.


----------



## David

Yeah, apparently they did some research and something like 80 per cent of people involved in the World Trade Center attacks suffered DP so this would tie up. I certainly had some anxiety that I think triggered it - leaving university and not knowing what I was going to do with my life and a bunch of stuff around coming to terms with my sexuality.

David


----------



## university girl

hey guys. i've stayed out of this area of the site for a while. was surprised to see a new thread started. i commend you all for theorizing about why we have dp. we need more thinkers in this world. btw, daphne simeon and crew are also doing research on cortisol and dp. they are at mt sinai in NY. keep up the good work!


----------



## Kerio

There's something I've been trying to put in words for some time, and I'll try to, now.

Key words - Self; mask; loss of self; search for self; building of mask based on societal norms; inability to really understand the tiny nuances of the societal front people put up; inability to maintain mask; anger; darkness; the dark mask; the mask that goes against societal norms; the fear of being normal; the search for self in the darkness; the endless cycle.

Hm. I just realized it's really difficult to put a shadow of a thought on paper. It's there, but not there. Kinda like the reality we live in.

When DP first settles in, we lose our perception of 'self'. We forget who we are, and are unable to fully comprehend ourselves. Feeling naked and bewildered, we try to behave like we used to, a mask, a mannequin bereft of a human soul. We gradually realize that we've lost our 'self', and we try desperately to search for it. In friends, in family, in the things we love, trying to build that 'connection' we've lost.

We search for acknowledgement in the people we know, the things we know, in the hope that familiarity will return our souls to our bodies.

When this fails, we build a wall around our selves, the proverbial scab around the exposed, vulnerable inside. We create a mask based on what we know about society. We create a mirror of society, the robot which will be accepted into the human race. And even with this near-perfect mask we realise there's something missing.

The touch of humanity. The touch of life and selfishness that everyone has. We cannot hold the mask because we know it is a mask.

The mask cracks, and fear sets in. We are afraid of being judged. We fear the unknown, and the unknown is the world. We fear the world because it is unknown.

Our fear settles in, and our natural animal instincts bring us to a critical point. Fear, fear to the brink of death and unconsciousness! Or fear which leads to anger! Anger! Fury! We burn with the rage that consumes us! Why us? Why should we suffer the detached sickness of life while others revel in their consciousness? What have we done to deserve it? Why are they smiling at us? Do they mock us? Do they find us strange?

A dark mask is the answer! If we cannot be accepted, then let us spurn these creatures who dare invade our vulnerable souls! Let us create a mask that will make them Fear us!

And hence we create a self that is fearsome - the different person, the breakaway from society.

I am Different. Hear me Roar.

Gothic dress; Tattoes; Piercings; Dark coloured clothes; The glare that tells people to shut the f*** up and stay the f*** away.

And then we become afraid of being normal. Of being just like them, and becoming vulnerable once more. Of having to face the pain of being the same, but _not quite_. The loneliness starts to seep in, and weakness overcomes us. We try to find ourselves in this turmoil, and once again, we turn to the people we have begun to trust and love.

We come full circle, back to the beginning.


----------



## David

Different people's experiences are different but I don't find much here that I recognise about myself. I agree up to the end of the paragraph 'We search for acknowledgement' but after this it loses me. I didn't change my personality when I became DP - I was still me.

If you're a goth or whatever before you will continue to be a goth. If like me you're fairly 'ordinary' based on society's norms then you will continue to be so.

Some of your theory about creating a mask sounds very similar to something that RD Laing talked about in his seminal book The divided self, where he talked about the mind creating a false self. It's quite an academic read but worth it. You can get it on Amazon.

David


----------



## Kerio

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look it up.

I suppose its not the goth or non-goth factor, but the line that comes after the 'acknowledgement' line.

"When That fails."

I suppose the deciding factor on whether or not the following circumstances are triggered depend heavily on whether or not the sufferer receives the acknowledgement and understanding from friends and family.

My friends and family, for instance, do not believe that such a condition exists. I suppose that's what's causing my disbelief in...I dunno, stuff like someone being there for me I guess. Loneliness breeds the condition too, but I'm loathe to admit that I crave company. That, in itself, maybe a thought I need to straighten out.


----------



## agentcooper

i just took a saliva hormone test and my cortisol levels are very elevated. my doctor said that high cortisol can result in anxiety and although she hadn't heard of dp/dr, she said that it was very possible that high cortisol could be part of my problem. i'm going to go on a supplement to lower my levels and i'll let you all know how that goes for me and my dr.


----------



## Kerio

We will be waiting for the results 

As of now, I am still considering whether or not to volunteer myself to becoming a research subject for the mental health hospital in my country.

Granted, it might help me greatly, but things don't always end up like we expect them to. Having to deal with mind-altering drugs (literally) might result in either cure...or madness.

I'll also keep the board informed on my decision, though a lot's happening now. (Just resigned! I can't seem to keep any job for more than 1 year  )

edit : oops! If there's anything you want to tell me urgently before i become a lab rat, comment on my blog, because I don't check here very often


----------



## Guest

I have to agree with dontknow about is view on cortisol. There is a med called RU-486 with is an abortive pill (not approved in many countries) recent studies have shown that it help a lot patient with major depression experiencing other features (like DP/DR) the drug actually block the effect of cortisol on neurons (high dose of cortisol is neurotoxic to some level) the same study show that people taking this drug had increase "neurogenesis" in the amygdala (i think i remember that correctly) basically it helped new neurons to grow where as they were kill off by the cortisol before the med. I wonder how RU-486 would affect DP sufferer i would have tried it but its not approved for use in Canada.


----------



## Guest

Kerio said:


> Could it be, and this is still a theory, that the same treatment can benefit us? After all, lack of sleep usually worsens DP, and lack of sleep is associated with less oxygen being taken in. I've noticed that when I'm really sleepy, my breathing becomes shallow and sometimes I can stop breathing for a few seconds (unconsciously). This usually sends me into a deeper DP Trance than usual, until I take a deep breath, and the world suddenly seems to 'light up'. Since we feel generally lethargic most of the time, could oxygen treatment help?
> 
> Has anyone tried it yet?


Interesting take on things. I know that I become more susceptible to panic attacks if I don't get enough sleep, and of course, with panic comes sensations of depersonalization and derealization. I also have sleep apnea but it is being treated and the treatment is a great help, but it only reduces the intensity of my affliction from 'severe' to a 'mild to moderate' degree.

Before treatment, I was getting so little real sleep that I walked around in a daze or a 'fog' to say nothing of experiencing crushing fatigue at times. Sometimes life seemed a little dreamlike, and I could never quite explain why until I learned that I had sleep apnea. Oddly enough, I rarely experienced symptoms of DP/DR before treatment because of the apnea alone.

Perhaps the worst experience of DP I've had (outside of a bad drug experience which initially triggered the syndrome in me) actually came when I started treatment. When you have severe sleep apnea and the chronic sleep deprivation it causes, one becomes emotionally labile. Feelings and perceptions are more intense in such a state, but distorted. With treatment, a lot of that goes away, and in the adjustment process, you just don't feel like your usual self. The diminished emotional intensity can feel like a kind of numbness and one feels dissociated, because as the brain rebuilds itself and adjusts, a new identity literally is developing. That is, you go from a sleep-deprived self to one which is no longer sleep-deprived.

I haven't tried oxygen therapy, so I can't comment on its efficacy.


----------



## Kerio

Very busy thesedays, as I've taken up a degree, a diploma and a language course to stay "grounded", so I apologise for the delayed posts. :?

I'm beginning to understand why some people say that we're the worst enemies to ourselves. Here's an exercise to give you an idea as to why I think this way :

To practise before you try, focus on a dot. A Single Dot. Don't let your eyes stray, don't let your mind stray. Focus all your thought, your mind, every fibre in your being on that dot.

Now hold for as long as you can. This hones your concentration.

When you can do that to a level you're comfortable with, focus on Bringing yourself back to reality. This is how :

Focus on your surroundings. Force your mind to concentrate on everything in front of you with every fibre in your body, Heighten your vision and concentration. Glare if you want to.

You'll realise that there's something blocking - something in you that's stopping you from surfacing.

What this means I don't know. Perhaps there's a part of our brains we can't access anymore; or perhaps a part of us still wants to hide; perhaps a part of us has grown used to the chemically-induced fluffiness; or perhaps a part of us just doesn't want to come out.

Try it, and see if it works for you!


----------



## Kerio

After reading this :

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.2237.html

I think I might as well just put down here what I suspect everyone already knows but hasn't quite iterated.

95% subconscious is what the normal human being operates on. The other 5% of the person is aware of who she is, what she is. As we all know, the "Self" part of the mind was a recent evolution (which would explain why it's so fragile and requires active growth as children), so losing that 5% of our consciousness was not a terribly difficult thing to do.

Having said that, I think I'd put forth my suggestion : The reason why all of us feel like we're automated robots is because _we're all behaving on subconscious levels_. We're not thinking. We're just doing.

Therefore to live a more active, more participatory life is VERY important. To do this, we need to hone our subconscious. How? Practise. Subconcious is nothing more than the human being becoming "accustomed" to doing certain things. We learn to hold a cup and will not think twice when we pick a cup off the table. We learn to type, to do all the things we do - all without actively thinking about doing them.

So practise living - and you just might learn to do it for real.

Now let's see a raise of hands here :

How many of you ladies and gents are slowly going blind in your left eye?

And more importantly : What is the connection?

Edit observation : if you lose your sight in one eye, you lose only 1/5 of your vision, but ALL your depth perception. Is this what this is about? Because we're "seeing" in 2D so long that our brain is starting to eliminate the need for a 3D apparatus? Like frostbite? I hope not. It doesn't seem really feasible, because by now all my body parts would have dropped off anyway.


----------



## oiledleather

B.Pharm said:


> I have to agree with dontknow about is view on cortisol. There is a med called RU-486 with is an abortive pill (not approved in many countries) recent studies have shown that it help a lot patient with major depression experiencing other features (like DP/DR) the drug actually block the effect of cortisol on neurons (high dose of cortisol is neurotoxic to some level) the same study show that people taking this drug had increase "neurogenesis" in the amygdala (i think i remember that correctly) basically it helped new neurons to grow where as they were kill off by the cortisol before the med. I wonder how RU-486 would affect DP sufferer i would have tried it but its not approved for use in Canada.


I did some more research into this, and someone tried to reproduce the results of the RU-486 study, and they found that it had no effect.

RU-486 is an over the counter drug in parts of Europe. Has anyone thought of trying it?

M


----------



## Kerio

Greetings all! Been quite a while since I last visited; I still am afflicted with DP, but I've been lucky in more ways than one. I've managed to get engaged! And I'm getting married in December! I would have thought that it'd be impossible to live a normal life with this affliction, but apparently what I told myself repeatedly has worked - pretend you're fine and you just might end up being fine.

I've found some updates on Wiki recently and thought I might share :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization

Wiki differentiates DP and DP disorder (the difference in the 2 being in the extent, symptoms and causes) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder

Most heartening are the cures possible for both DP and DPD - for DPD it's medicinal, in the form of Naloxone :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone

I'm not sure if anyone in this community contributed to the Wiki article, but if you did in any way, I am very grateful. I'm also quite pleased to see that some of the explorative ideas I raised are actually valid.

Cheers all and remember to live your life while waiting for the cure. I'm sure when a cure is found tomorrow, next week, next year or even 10 - 15 years down the road, we'd not want to look back and wistfully wish for the life we could have had. Your life is here, now. So Carpe Diem! =)


----------

