# Why am I suddenly obsessed with permanence?



## endure (7 mo ago)

For some reason, out of nowhere, I've been increasingly obsessed with permanence. 

When dwelling in a world beyond time and physical reality, the obsession of permanence emerges as almost a way for the traumatised mind to discern what is real. 

It's almost as if, if things don't last forever, they were never truly real at all. I don't like this. 
I feel even more trapped now, completely severed from life. Hopefully it changes, as things do. But for now, this is difficult to bare.


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## coolwhip27 (Mar 14, 2015)

Describe more of what bothers you about it. Is it linked to anything material for you? Or is it just the idea that bothers you, existentially speaking. All permanence really is, is an idea. I mean, we can’t stop the reality of “what is” from happening so what’s the use of even thinking about it? That’s just my advice.


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## endure (7 mo ago)

coolwhip27 said:


> All permanence really is, is an idea.


Good point. I don't know, ideas like this infect me and try to make everything feel increasingly unreal. 
Every step, every breath. It's some sort of mind worm which tries to make everything feel hilarious, like life is this big cage. This big joke. It's all impermanent, isn't it funny! 

In reality it makes no sense, just because something isn't a permanent fixture doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning for the life that experiences and knows it. 

Hopefully shit like this doesn't continue, since I'm trying to get an apprenticeship and God knows I will look like a real weirdo on the job like this. Plus it's blue collar work too, I'm afraid of the people I'll meet. I've done a trade job part time and it was hell simply because the people were evil. 

I don't want this to be the same.


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## coolwhip27 (Mar 14, 2015)

endure said:


> Good point. I don't know, ideas like this infect me and try to make everything feel increasingly unreal.
> Every step, every breath. It's some sort of mind worm which tries to make everything feel hilarious, like life is this big cage. This big joke. It's all impermanent, isn't it funny!
> 
> In reality it makes no sense, just because something isn't a permanent fixture doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning for the life that experiences and knows it.
> ...


I think I understand what you mean by mind worm. Those little negative thought ideas that keep persisting. A lot of times it feels like my life is a big joke too, like something is messing with me. But I would like to point out how subjective negativity really is in the mind. And how easily something can go from being such a problem to being miniscule. Its never the actual idea which is the problem, its just the way your thoughts are bouncing off it.


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## Trith (Dec 31, 2019)

coolwhip27 said:


> Describe more of what bothers you about it. Is it linked to anything material for you? Or is it just the idea that bothers you, existentially speaking. All permanence really is, is an idea. I mean, we can’t stop the reality of “what is” from happening so what’s the use of even thinking about it? That’s just my advice.


I agree very much. I have had only two panic attacks in my life (I think they were panic attacks) and one of them was about kind of existential questions like this. The root of that problem of mine at that time was that I was building too many theories to explain or describe the world to myself. Like if I could only have my own reliable description of the world it would mean I was safe, or I was always right, which meant I couldn't be threatened anymore. I don't even remember exactly the thoughts themselves, but I think everything was in that spirit. And the problem is that these concepts have problems of their own. Like, it's a stupid example but the sentence "this sentence is incorrect" raises a paradox. But such paradox can't exist in nature, paradoxes can only exist in our own minds because they are inherent to concepts, which will always be very imperfect ways to describe reality. Yet, I was trying to find kind of the perfect concepts or perfect philosophical principles that would be above everything (kind of), it felt like I was building a solid building of theories, but I was just building my own mind jail. Now I think there is no way I can state a philosophical principle without it contradicting itself at some point. I thought I was building a kind of vision of the world for myself that was more right, or more solid, but at some point I realized it was all too rigid, and just like rigid buildings don't survive earthquakes, it collapsed under the weight of its contradictions and this is what triggered a panic attack for me. I was living in the reality of my building of concepts, and when it collapsed it really felt like reality was collapsing, and I was just facing impossibilities and contradictions without being able to make anything out of them. I went from full control to zero control. And even after that collapsing, it was tempting to make another theory out of it and try to explain it again and start building again... that's what I do. But confusing reality with concepts ultimately makes us live in many contradictions that can't hold if we really look at them.


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## coolwhip27 (Mar 14, 2015)

Trith said:


> I agree very much. I have had only two panic attacks in my life (I think they were panic attacks) and one of them was about kind of existential questions like this. The root of that problem of mine at that time was that I was building too many theories to explain or describe the world to myself. Like if I could only have my own reliable description of the world it would mean I was safe, or I was always right, which meant I couldn't be threatened anymore. I don't even remember exactly the thoughts themselves, but I think everything was in that spirit. And the problem is that these concepts have problems of their own. Like, it's a stupid example but the sentence "this sentence is incorrect" raises a paradox. But such paradox can't exist in nature, paradoxes can only exist in our own minds because they are inherent to concepts, which will always be very imperfect ways to describe reality. Yet, I was trying to find kind of the perfect concepts or perfect philosophical principles that would be above everything (kind of), it felt like I was building a solid building of theories, but I was just building my own mind jail. Now I think there is no way I can state a philosophical principle without it contradicting itself at some point. I thought I was building a kind of vision of the world for myself that was more right, or more solid, but at some point I realized it was all too rigid, and just like rigid buildings don't survive earthquakes, it collapsed under the weight of its contradictions and this is what triggered a panic attack for me. I was living in the reality of my building of concepts, and when it collapsed it really felt like reality was collapsing, and I was just facing impossibilities and contradictions without being able to make anything out of them. I went from full control to zero control. And even after that collapsing, it was tempting to make another theory out of it and try to explain it again and start building again... that's what I do. But confusing reality with concepts ultimately makes us live in many contradictions that can't hold if we really look at them.


I’ve done that. I still kinda do, in my pursuit of trying to “figure it all out”. But while we are trying to give ourselves that kind of protection to fall back on, reality will eventually rear it’s ugly head and the walls will come tumbling down. 

Edit: Intelligence means one who does not act in fragments. A businessman is something different in his office than at home. A scientist may go to the moon, invent, do the most extraordinary things with computers and so on, in their laboratory be very intelligent, but they are just like anybody else: nationalistic, competitive, ambitious. Most of us live in fragments, a fragmentary life. Each fragment has its own life, and therefore each fragment is in contradiction with the other. This contradiction is the very essence of stupidity. Therefore we can say that intelligence is not to function in fragments. Intelligence is to function totally – totally in business, totally as a politician, and so on. This means you have to take the totality of humanity, not just as a politician – the totality of a human mind which has lived for over two million years. If one can function that way, that is the highest form of intelligence. —Krishnamurti


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## endure (7 mo ago)

Trith said:


> I agree very much. I have had only two panic attacks in my life (I think they were panic attacks) and one of them was about kind of existential questions like this. The root of that problem of mine at that time was that I was building too many theories to explain or describe the world to myself. Like if I could only have my own reliable description of the world it would mean I was safe, or I was always right, which meant I couldn't be threatened anymore. I don't even remember exactly the thoughts themselves, but I think everything was in that spirit. And the problem is that these concepts have problems of their own. Like, it's a stupid example but the sentence "this sentence is incorrect" raises a paradox. But such paradox can't exist in nature, paradoxes can only exist in our own minds because they are inherent to concepts, which will always be very imperfect ways to describe reality. Yet, I was trying to find kind of the perfect concepts or perfect philosophical principles that would be above everything (kind of), it felt like I was building a solid building of theories, but I was just building my own mind jail. Now I think there is no way I can state a philosophical principle without it contradicting itself at some point. I thought I was building a kind of vision of the world for myself that was more right, or more solid, but at some point I realized it was all too rigid, and just like rigid buildings don't survive earthquakes, it collapsed under the weight of its contradictions and this is what triggered a panic attack for me. I was living in the reality of my building of concepts, and when it collapsed it really felt like reality was collapsing, and I was just facing impossibilities and contradictions without being able to make anything out of them. I went from full control to zero control. And even after that collapsing, it was tempting to make another theory out of it and try to explain it again and start building again... that's what I do. But confusing reality with concepts ultimately makes us live in many contradictions that can't hold if we really look at them.


You've described something so perfectly, in my youth there was this pressing desire to grasp everything in totality because then, I wouldn't be vulnerable. I could walk away with this newfound freedom and mastery. But all I got was confusion and pain. In the end... total destruction.


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