# How far back is History recorded?



## Guest (May 26, 2008)

How far can we go back with the History of humans? Manly on their civilization? Where does our history fade away?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

The biblical account of Genesis is thought to have been written somewhere around 1400 BC.


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

I love the topic of human evolution. Very complex. And it has taken ages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution
From Wikipedia: a lot of info there.... and far from complete ...
"Human evolution is the part of biological evolution concerning the emergence of **** sapiens as a distinct species from other hominans, great apes and placental mammals. It is the subject of a broad scientific inquiry that seeks to understand and describe how this change occurred. *The study of human evolution encompasses many scientific disciplines, most notably physical anthropology, linguistics and genetics.*

The term "human", in the context of human evolution, refers to the genus ****, but studies of human evolution usually include other hominins, such as the australopithecines.

The **** genus diverged from the australopithecines about 2 million years ago in Africa. Several species of **** evolved, including **** erectus, which spread to Asia, and **** neanderthalensis, which spread to Europe.

***** sapiens evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago. Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals. Others view modern humans as having evolved as a single, widespread population.*

Starting with habilis, humans have used stone tools of increasing sophistication. *Starting about 50,000 years ago, human technology and culture began to change more rapidly."* etc., etc., etc...........
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The Bible does refer to the creation of the world in Genesis, but the history in the OT goes back to the Ancient Egyptions, far further back than 1,400 years ago. My cousin who doesn't believe in evolution at all for some reason changed his mind in the last year (not sure why -- he's in his 60s). He believes Genesis is more of a metaphor for the "Big Bang."

At any rate humans have been boppin' around for quite some time! HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS. This is why I see how deeply entrenched our instincts are. How we are truly complex animals. Some may be offended by that. I find THAT amazing, something of a miracle in and of itself.

YMMV
IMHO
I can't fall asleep. Hell, as usual.
When I really have to get up in the morning, I can't sleep. Racing mind.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

**The date when Genesis is presumed to have been recorded was around 1400 BC, my bad. Most people who believe in creation believe humans to have been around for about 6000 years.

One time I was sitting in my camper van with two friends and we were talking about time and how people who believe in evolution believe that humans have been around for hundreds of thousands of years while people who believe in creation believe humans have been here somewhere around 6,000 years. My friend is taking physics and he was saying how his teacher brought up this question as to why people vary in their answers and suggested a possible answer. I suck at science, I haven't even taken physics and dropped out of college but I'll do my best to remember his response.

He was saying that his teacher said that ever since the beginning of time everything has been moving away from the center of the universe. Therefore over time, time actually changes because as we move farther away from the center of the universe time is speeding up. I forgot why exactly :?: But I guess his suggestion was that a million years ago (our time) a year could have actually been the length of a million years and as time has progressed time has been speeding up. And that would be why some believe humans to have been around for 100,00 + years and others 6,000 years.

I don't know if what I said made any sense but when I heard it described to me it made sense.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Yeah, but to be fair, when creationist Christians say 6,000 the meaning they are attributing to the 6,000 is probably in relation to a year as we know it now....and it is incredible people think the world is only 6,000 years old.

You only have to look at the cycles of water, rocks and geological features to see the cycles of the earth are very very slow. I see the Christian ideas as being like the ego is to the mystery of the self, very small and self-centred (universe revolves round the earth kind of feel to it...makes the mind close down when one claims answers to the big questions).

I prefere to read New Age speculation, because no matter how wacky it is, none of it has been taken on board by so many people, and it is obviously speculation...well, apart from those people who really believe in stuff like Pyramids being built by aliens...there are people who channel from other solar systems and claim to have met aliens and stuff. That's scary, but its better to be open and scared, I feel, than to be locked into a comfortable mind-consciousness system. It seems that most people just cannot bear to feel the mystery without throwing a wobbly and signing up to the nearest organisation that'll provide a nice, handy set of dogmas.

Even what we "know" of history isn't certain, there is a lot of debate. The past is a mystery, the future is a mystery as well. We are a mystery, the planet, life, God etc is all a mystery...

I think its ok to imagine how things may have been, but to accept it is imagination unless there is really solid physical evidence. Even Darwinism hasn't got that status in the scientific world, apparently the theory lacks full evidence, although it has some evidence.

Incredibly these theories have only been around for 100-200 years, before that, there were "Lamarckists" and Darwinists. Larmarck believed that creatures mutated directly in response to the challenges of the environment, for instance, that a giraffe was long of neck because it had to reach so far upward. His theory was thrown out by the scientific community and Darwin's theory took hold.


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

Rozanne said:


> That's scary, but its better to be open and scared, I feel, than to be locked into a comfortable mind-consciousness system.


holy moly, i said almost those exact words to my friend last night. 
then i said i would rather be uncomfortable as opposed to ignorant (well, ignorant is a little too harsh). somehow, it seems like with an open mind, there is something still so stable in that.


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Well the biblical accounts date back to somewhere around 1400 BC. And if you believe the Bible to be true then that would be the earliest time when man set foot on earth.


Scratches on rock services (correct spelling?) tend to be uneditable if not illegible. Marking on wood/paper tend to be editable if not destroyed. Point being... over the past history... history has been written how we see it by those who had power in the past. I cannot take in what history books state... Dig underground to seek ashes... or search the stars to find answers from others... I want the answers either unearthed or off earth altogether and spoken/ communicated by ?others?. How we think and believe has been moulded by those who see fit... if you seek the truth, free your mind.


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

Dreamer* said:


> *Starting about 50,000 years ago, human technology and culture began to change more rapidly."* etc., etc., etc...........


This is the question which pretty much fueled my reason for the question I have asked. If our tech begain to develope 50K ago... where's the remains? Was most of the tech we begain with that of biological material which has slowly rotted into the fuel we burn in our cars?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> if you seek the truth, free your mind.


Well said.

I didn't mean to give an "answer" by my response but rather just a note that I remember reading that the book of Genesis was presumed to have been recorded somewhere around that time.


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## Guest (May 27, 2008)

Beg your pardon... I see you didn't now by re-reading what you wrote.


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> Dreamer* said:
> 
> 
> > *Starting about 50,000 years ago, human technology and culture began to change more rapidly."* etc., etc., etc...........
> ...


THere ARE remains! Tools, buildings, living conditions, clothing, art, tools, weapons. The reason we have so much stuff re: Egyptian mummies is they were preserved by their dry environment. Also, sadly enough, the pollution and crap we're leaving behind is DESTROYING the earth. Oh, they'll find it in 50,000 years. As a poem once said, "The conch of a rusted telephone will tell the archaeologist in the dust nothing of our whispers or words." Poor translation from the French.

I am not an expert on evolution and what I studied in university is way out of my league now. (Forgotten). But I follow science in magazines, etc.

Carbon dating is a reliable way of dating tools, bones, etc. Egyptian civilization is far less mysterious than people would believe. The pyramids have been pretty much explained re: how they were built. Archaeologists, sociologists, etc. have been digging around a long time considering. We have found many, many dinosaur bones. We have found civiliations and how they lived. I myself have been to Egypt. I have seen pyramids (crawled inside one!), seen Luxor/Thebes, the Sphinx. Our tourguide, and Egyptian Egyptologist could read all the heiroglyphics. We have also found innumerable human remains. Check out the Smithsonian!

We can read ancient Greek, Hebrew, Latin, etc. Much more than that.

You have to STUDY these things. Also all of Jane Goodall's work on chimp behavior gives us a HUGE understanding of human behavior. And Darwin's work is brilliantly illustrated in a book called "The Beak of the Finch" - evolutionary adaptation can be seen in action over a shorter period of time with less complex animals. We also know that strains of bacteria, virus' evolve in response to our medical treatments and adapt to become stronger.

Scary things like more deadly AIDS virus' have evolved. Well a virus again, takes a far shorter time to evolve than a person or animal. Also, if you read of the genetic studies recently on the duck-billed platypus. It has the genetic makeup of a bird, a reptile and a rodent or something. It's an odd critter. Just Google it -- it's recently been in the news.

There is too much evidence, but you must READ about it, IN DEPTH. People can't just ASSUME things. You have to LEARN.

Ah, there are also tools of varying complexity used in different civilitizations. Artistic representations -- look up the caves of Lasceaux sp! in France.

6,000 years is truly MODERN. We know of civilizations BEFORE that time.

Ach, I can't go on. One must read current scientific magazines on this stuff. I have enough trouble keeping up with a number of interests such as this.

FASCINATING. And I am more than convinced about evolution, especially since the genome project was completed. And we now find there are "super genes" forgot the word that TURN ON THE GENES THAT EXIST!

And why have virus' evolved? SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. It is clear as day to me. Call me crazy. But I believe in this. And if someone finds it's all hooey, OK, I'll look at other explanations. No, the science isn't perfect, but NOTHING is perfect. We only understand a fraction of who we are and where we came from thousands of years ago. It is indeed easy to not read anything, and say, "This is what someone told me, so it must be true." Read all sides, and then come to your own conclusions!

Well, IMHO,
YMMV.
Cheers,
D :mrgreen:


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

The Duck Billed Platypus. Believe it or not.
Genetics has led us to understand so much about evolution. This one weird critter. I've only seen one in a zoo setting. An aquarium? You have to READ this, all of it, to get an understanding. This stuff challenges my mind. Keeps it going. It is very hard for me to read sometimes, but I force myself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7385949.stm <------------ *video here and photos and cool stuff*

*Platypus genetic code unravelled

By Helen Briggs 
Science reporter, BBC News
May 7, 2008*

The egg-laying, venomous, duck-billed platypus in action (Dr Frederic Veyrunes)

*Scientists have deciphered the genetic blueprint of the duck-billed platypus, one of the oddest creatures on Earth.
The animal comes from an early branch of the mammal family, and like mammals it is covered in fur and produces milk. However, it lays eggs like a reptile.*

Researchers say this unique mixture of features is reflected in its DNA.
The genome sequence, which is published in the journal Nature, holds clues to how humans and other mammals first evolved, they add.

The platypus (Ornithorhynchus anatinus) is the latest in a string of mammals, including the mouse, rat, sheep, horse and dog, to have its genome decoded.

But it is the only member of the monotremes (egg laying mammals) for which we have a genetic blueprint.
Dr Chris Ponting, of the MRC Functional Genetics Unit at the University of Oxford, UK, is one of more than 100 researchers from the US, UK and Australia, who took part in the study. He said the platypus was chosen because of its unusual features.

Platypus Genome

*About two-thirds the size of the human genome
Contains about 18,500 genes
Has 52 chromosomes, including 10 sex chromosomes
The platypus is so strange that it was considered a hoax when sent from Australia to European researchers in the 19th Century.
"It has a very weird appearance because it's a mishmash of the bill of a duck, the eyes of a mole, the eggs of a lizard and the tail of a beaver," Dr Ponting told BBC News.*
"It was one of several (mammals) we could have chosen, but it was certainly the one that everyone seemed to wish to sequence because of its unusual features."

Dr Ponting said the genome sequence enabled scientists to look back in time to see what an early mammal would have been like.
He said: "It's wonderful to see all of the different mishmash of features that the platypus exhibits; to see those features reflected in the DNA, in the genes of this creature, which has held mysteries for the scientists and the general population ever since it was discovered 200 years ago."
The DNA came from a female, nicknamed Glennie, which was captured in the wild in New South Wales, Australia.
The sequence was then compared with stretches of DNA from about 100 platypuses living in the wild.

Dr Mark Batzer, from Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge, who also worked on the study, said the data would help in conservation efforts by allowing scientists to investigate population size, structure and breeding 
habits.

"In the case of the platypus, clearly we learned a lot about a unique organism that has relevance in terms of its endangered status and conservation biology," he said.
*"One big surprise was the patchwork nature of the genome with avian, reptilian and mammalian features," he added.
The platypus and the small spiny mammal known as the echidna are the only existing species of monotremes in the world. All other mammals give birth to live young.*
The platypus is widespread in the eastern states of Australia, living in and around streams and rivers.
They have acute sight, but only open their eyes above water.
Underwater, they rely on touch and a special sense called electro-reception that allows them to detect tiny changes in the electrical field generated by their prey.


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7424281.stm

Fossil fish, first live birth. 380 million years old. :shock: A fish that gave birth.


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## Guest (May 29, 2008)

Re: when Genesis was written has to do with Judaism. The Old Testament is also based on oral tradition going back centuries and by myths going back to Sumeria, and Egypt, etc. This is from Wikipedia, but it involves complex study of language, myth, theology, etc. So the date of when Genesis was written is anywhere from 500 BCE to 200 BCE or so.
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Wikipedia: From a HUGE bunch of info....
"The theories currently being advanced can be divided into three[citation needed] revisions of Wellhausen's documentary model, of which Richard Elliot Friedman's is one of the better known;[79] fragmentary models such as that of R. N. Whybray, who sees the Torah as the product of a single author working from a multitude of small fragments rather than from large coherent source texts;[80] and supplementary models such as that advanced by John Van Seters, who sees in Genesis the gradual accretion of material over many centuries and from many hands.[81]

* The 19th century dating of the final form of Genesis and the Pentateuch to c. 500-450 BC continues to be widely accepted irrespective of the model adopted,[82] although a minority of scholars known as biblical minimalists argue for a date largely or entirely within the last two centuries."*

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Theologians, individuals familiar with numerous ancient languages, etc. have researched this stuff for years and years.

One must remember that a good bit of the BIble serves to preserve the lineage of Jewish patriarchs, join the Jews as a tight knit social/political/religious group that has existed for centuries. People forget that the 10 Commandments are in the Old Testament.

The Gospels are believed to have been written MUCH later than near the time of Christ, based on oral tradition again. Also, St. Paul is almost more influential in spreading Christianity than was Christ who was a Jewish Rabbi.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)




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