# Anti-depersonalization medication



## silverhawk

Ok so I recently met up with my psychiatrist and he told me that an anti-depersonalization medication will not come out in our lifetime for 2 reasons: the cause is unknown and not enough people have depersonalization disorder in order to spend money on the research of DPD. Do you think he's right? I'm scared that I'll have DPD for the rest of my life... Hopefully my psychiatrist is wrong and an anti-DP medication will come out soon..


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## Guest

There's plenty of recovery stories on here and on the internet to prove this professional wrong.

You got to accept your DP/DR, go along with it (Ignore) and recover, and if possible, stay away from meds.


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## Guest

That was what I said but more condensed, lol.


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## TDX

Next year ALKS-5461 might become available and this is most certainly an anti-depersonalisative medication. If we look at the studies of Nuller et al and Simeon et al it and assume that the effects come from kappa-opioid-antagonism it might benefit 30 % - 70 % of us.

As I see it there are various lines of possible treatments for depersonalization, including medication, neuromodulation and - to a limited extend - psychotherapy which should be investigated. The only problem is that there is no interest in psychiatry to do this. In my opinion the often quoted treatment-refractoricity of depersonalization is to some extend homemade.


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## TDX

More and more I'm getting a strong disgust towards this never-ending trauma-ignore-acceptance-folderol.


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## TDX

> Couldn't agree more. I just can't understand these people who have been suffering for years spouting this anti-treatment diatribe. If there's something that could help them, any sane person would try it, right?


At least I decided for me to bring the artillery of psychopharmacology into position. I'll try everything that might help and that I can get prescribed. If nothing works I'll also try to get electroconvulsive therapy (although I think that chances are fairly low).

I'll also try psychotherapy, but I don't really believe that it can help. There is no convincing concept for a psychotherapy against depersonalization, especially not from the dissociative-disorder-community. The only things that might justify further investigation are abreaction and maybe mindfulness meditation.



> Nope. Apparently we should suffer quietly and eventually maybe our purity will guide us home.


Unfortunately this is what many actually do. Although depersonalization disorder might affect 1% of the population there are no self-help organizations that advocate the interests of the depersonalized. This is because I think that the ignorance of psychiatry is partly a fault of the sufferers themselves, who did not stand up to fight for their rights.



> Zed named you as one of the people who finally chased him off this forum btw. We did good. Keep acting as a voice of rationality.


He was another reason why I got suspicious that the dissociative disorder community might be a reservoir of all the charlatons in psychiatry. I don't believe them that they can treat depersonalization or any other of the dissociative disorders.


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## inferentialpolice

King and TDX, for whatever it may be worth, here is part of an PM I received from Zed just prior to his leaving:

"It saddens me that therapy gets such a bum rap on this site. I've been on a few sites for dissociative people (mainly DID sites) and I've never seen anything like what I see here on DPSH. I've never seen so much denial! Or confusion as to what the dissociative disorders are (for the large majority of ppl). I can see it must be bewildering for someone who believes their upbringing was close to perfect, but there're many people who absolutely know their upbringing was far from ideal yet don't seem to want (or are able?) to acknowledge the connection with their DD... At the same time I do understand there're few folks who don't have this disorder from trauma.

I've seen a couple of great therapists; a psychiatrist weekly for 2 years and then I moved on to a psychologist who I see presently. I've been seeing her pretty much weekly for about 16 months. Though I should never forget the first person I ever saw who was a counsellor. I saw her weekly for about a year I think it was. She was great too and recognised very quickly that I was extremely dissociative.

The psychologist I see now also has a great understanding of DID and DD's and we talk a lot about the DD's in general. She and her peers absolutely believe over 90% of people with DD's have trauma in their background. She also said in her 20 years of experience, it's not uncommon at all to hear the words "my family life growing up was great" and further down the track the 'walls' begin to crumble and the truth comes out to discover a very abusive past...

I've learnt a hell of a lot about this condition from a couple of other forums too. The folks on 'Survivorship.org' have been incredibly helpful and that place really stands out. It's a site for people with DID.. and the thing is.. there's plenty of ppl there who've walked the long journey, come out the other side and DO lead content and fulfilling lives. What better people to talk to than the ones who've spent decades in therapy, healed and are willing to lend a hand? It's not unusual for them to go on and become counsellors or therapists.

There's a few things on this site I feel are neglected. Where's the talk and understanding of triggers and they impact they can have? Where's the advice about how powerful grounding is for dissociative people? Where's the talk about the need to feel safe and the huge impact that can have on fuelling dissociation? I've brought these topics up occasionally but they don't get much traction.. Ahh well.. you know they say, 'you can lead a horse to water&#8230;.'


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## TDX

> There's no real point in me responding to that nonsense given that he'll never read it but if he was here, I'd challenge him to find 10 stories in the recovery section that begin with "I started seeing a therapist"


In my opinion psychotherapy for DPD is - at least in most cases - useless. It may help some people to cope with their symptoms, but in most cases do nothing to actually reduce them. And therapies which have a duration of *decades* point to quackery, because there is no scientific evidence for the efficacy or long-term psychotherapy (which is almost always psychodynamic) for any disorder.



> *Myself and TDX et al. are the ones who advocate trying everything -- psychiatric and psychological. We say throw everything you can at DP and see what sticks. It's the rational course of action.


That's true.


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## Guest

I'd say your psych is first off a jerk for giving you the no hope speech in certain times of need, but i've seen a lot of jerks in that field over the years. They get the MD and turn into gods among men. However, He's right about one thing, we may not see it in our lifetime. Mental illness is a fickle bitch, you can't take the mind and point to the problem like you can with say an x ray of a broken bone. Even with more severe illness' such as schizophrenia, it's very difficult to diagnose and usually a diagnosis is only made with subjective information.

I wouldn't lose hope just yet though, there are ways to cope, and i still believe getting to the root cause of the DP can cure it. For example if yours was caused by trauma, anxiety, or a subconscious version of both, it can definitely be fixed.


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## TDX

> I wouldn't lose hope just yet though, there are ways to cope, and i still believe getting to the root cause of the DP can cure it. For example if yours was caused by trauma, anxiety, or a subconscious version of both, it can definitely be fixed.


In my opinion this view is part of the problem, because it directs the attention to trauma, anxiety and so on with the consequence that depersonalization is ignored.


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## Guest

TDX said:


> In my opinion this view is part of the problem, because it directs the attention to trauma, anxiety and so on with the consequence that depersonalization is ignored.


I don't see how depersonalization can come on without a root cause behind it, unless of course it is something neurological. Do you?


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## TDX

This depends on how you define "root cause". In your post the root causes seem to consist of other mental disorders, so your statement is that depersonalization is caused and mantained by other mental disorders. This is not true, because in the literature there are numberous examples where medication worked for the preexisting mental disorders, but not for the depersonalization.


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## Guest

Everything I've read has defined DP as a symptom of other mental disorders, however, lately I'm starting to agree with the fact that it can be more of a progressive disorder for some, including myself. So I guess I half agree with you on this. For some it merely is a symptom with an underlying root cause, but for others, it's a disease in and of itself. I think you may be more knowledgeable on the subject then myself so I am not one to argue!


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## TDX

> I'd typically expect benzos to only reduce DP symptoms in someone whose DP is secondary to an anxiety condition or similar. For me, for example, benzos do nothing except make me care slightly less about having DP, which allows me to plod through each day.


I don't know how they work, but increased GABA-activity might be able to decrease glutamatergic activiy in such a way that some people's symptoms are reduced. Interestingly it was found out that in soldiers Neuropeptide-Y concentration inversely correlated with "dissociation" (which almost always depersonalization). Neuropeptide-Y is thought to be a GABA_A-agonist, just like benzodiazepines.



> No therapy, informal work on my condition or medication has had the slightest effect on the intensity of my symptoms.


What medications did you try? Maybe I've some ideas which you might check out.



> On a personal note, if I fail to respond to TMS in a couple of months' time, I'm going to do a better job of ending my life. It would be easier if guns were legal in this country. Some people have no hope. Sorry for the bad news, newbies, but that's how this condition works.


Do you know what part of the brain they will stimulate? DPFC? VPFC? TPJ? Angular gyrus?


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## TDX

As I see you have not yet exausted all options. You may try Clomipramine, other anti-convulsives (Keppra, Topiramate), opiod antagonists or dopaminergic medications before you seriously try to commit suicide. In my opinion you should definetly try to get hold of Nalmefene. But I know by myself that this is easier said than done.

By the way: I tried St. Johns Wort, Escitalopram, Duloxetine, Clomipramine, Mirtazapine, Seroquel, Tianeptine and Bupropion without success for my "depression". The next thing might be Agomelatine, but only because I want to test if it can be used as a "time machine" just like Mirtazapine and Seroquel.



> Obviously I'm not going to commit suicide* without scamming a doctor (alcohol addiction ftw) or robbing a pharmacy for naltrexone first so there's at least 2 treatments I've still got to try. I'd steal some IM naloxone but I think that's very much a special order item in this country.


Scamming doctors might also be a good idea. Sad that we have to resort to such things. But before this it's important to know if this could have bad consequences.



> The kappa-selective bupenorphine combo (ALKS-whatever) most likely won't be widely available here in the UK for years.


Why? It seems to be very succesful for depression. DP might be ignored, but I don't think they will deny depressed people a very effective medication.



> My previous attempt was pretty half-hearted. I kinda expected to wake up after several days. It turns out that even my entire prescription of diazepam taken at one time isn't a lethal dose.


I also had a half-hearted attempt by trying water intoxication while having a bath. Unfortunately this is very hard.


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## TDX

> Is there any supporting evidence for TCAs at all? I've never seen anything in the literature.


There are some case-reports for clomipramine and desipramine:

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/3435887
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322398000237
http://journals.cambridge.org/abstract_S1092852900009366
Michelson, Larry K., and William J. Ray. Handbook of dissociation: Theoretical, empirical, and clinical perspectives. Springer Science & Business Media, 1996. Page 300

I also read on the forum that some people had success with Clomipramine. But just like SSRIs the odds seem to be quite low.



> By dopaminergic medications, I assume you mean receptor antagonists. From that class, I've obviously already tried prochlorperazine but never any atypical antipsychotics, which seem to work for some people.


No, I mean dopamine-*increasing* drugs, like Bupropion, Selegine, Ritaline, Adderal, Pramipexol and so on.

But atypical antipsychotics also work for some people, but in the majority antipsychotics make.things worse.



> I'm still a member of a private online drug market so that will be my first port of call. I'll ask around about nalmefene as well. If I manage to get hold of some, I'll let you know and if you're interested, help you out.


Just post in on the forum.


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## TDX

> Btw, have you tried naltrexone? If not, would you be interested? I'm going to see if I can get some.


I would prefer Nalmefene, because Naltrexone can be live-toxic in the high dosage that is required to block the kappa-opioid-receptor. Nalmefene also might have an anti-PTSD-effect while Naltrexone does not, which might be a hint that Nalmefene is better suited to treat depersonalization.

I'd like to try Nalmefene or Naltrexone but the problem is that my parents would be very angry if they found out that I got it illegally. Next year ALKS-5461 should come anyway, so in the meantime I'll try to get the other things.

By the way: If you are able to get medication illegally you could build ALKS-5461 by yourself. Combining Naltrexone and Buprenorphine in a 10:1 ratio seems to result in a functional kappa-opioid-antagonist:

http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v83/n4/abs/6100503a.html

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/adb.12020/full

http://jop.sagepub.com/content/20/6/806.short

I actually suggested this while I was in a psychiatric clinic, but of course they said no.



> Funnily enough, regarding dopaminergic drugs, I've actually felt worse ever since I stopped doing speed. I gave it up cold turkey about a year ago after a three year habit. I believed, incorrectly, that it was playing a role in perpetuating my condition. Maybe it wasn't.


This might be caused by kappa-opioid-upregulation:

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-010-1825-8

Interestingly dopamine-antagonists did not increase your symptoms. Maybe this also point to the kappa-opioid system.


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## TDX

> Is there any evidence that nalmefene works for DP?


No, but I've read in the forum that the depersonalization research unit in London uses it.



> I mean, it's a partial agonist at KORs so not a mechanism that I've ever seen tested.


A weak partial agonist might be expected to work just like an antagonist. Buprenorphin is also a weak partial agonist.



> Regardless, all the evidence seems to suggest that the kappa-opioid system is one of the primary players in DP and the future looks bright with ALKS-5461 on the horizon.


I suppose it will work for a substantial number of patients, but it won't solve all depersonalization problems.



> There also seems to be some inherent value in stimulants for a subset of DP sufferers. Whether this is through a pharmacological mechanism, I have no idea. I'd hypothesise that the focus and mental clarity that you get on amphetamine etc. makes DP a lot easier to ignore and, given time, could ease the symptoms (or at least prevent further worsening).


The mechanism by which stimulants improve DP-symptoms might be the same, by which antipsychotics make them worse. Unfortunately I wasn't yet able to figure out why antipsychotics make DP worse. The answer might be out there, because one should expect that in psychosis research they've accumulated a huge knowledge of the effects of D2-antagonists. Maybe it's related to glutamate.

But the problem is that Antipsychotics don't make Ketamine-induced DP worse. But this could mean that no effect of antipsychotics might predict response to Lamotrigine or ALKS-5461.


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## TDX

> I think it's reasonable to expect ALKS-5461 to perform at least as well as naloxone for which the only available data is extremely promising (~70% response, as you already know).


Difficult to say. In Nullers study there were also people who may have had DP secondary to treatment-resistant depression, while in Simeons study all had primary DP. But in Simeons study most participants did not reach the highest dosage, while in Nullers study they got infusions until it worked. So I assume that the real response rate might lie between 30 and 70%. Even 30% would be significant.



> In the general case, classical anti-psychotics still make most people feel worse. I'm the oddball exception to almost every rule.


Seroquel didn't make me worse, too.



> Classical anti-psychotics actually weaken some of the effects of ketamine, I think, which is interesting but only really suggests a dopaminergic component to the ketamine experience. Not necessarily at odds with what we already believe.


In fact Ketamine is also a partial D2-agonist. But haloperidol didn't reduce most of it's effect and this also includes the dissociative.



> What do you think about iboga/ibogaine anyway? So far I've only skimmed the wikipedia article but I want to look into it properly


It's definetely not safe. I would never take it under any circumstance.



> We have two completely different pharmacological options that have both yielded peak response rates of ~70% in the literature


Unfortunately that's not sure for Lamotrigine. The study of Aliyev and Aliyev is a complete fake (they copied most of the data from a trial about another disorder they conducted some years before). I conjecture that Lamotrigine works quite good for some people, but while reading this forum I came to the impression that the odds are much lower than the study suggests.



> Anyway, I think the future looks very bright in terms of psychiatric treatments. The "treatment refractory" label so often applied to DP is a crock of shit.


I wouldn't get so far, yet. But I'd say that the refractoricy of DP is the fault of psychiatry.



> That's not a bad idea actually, TDX. We should make a list of every single class and drug within those classes that we believe could be efficacious for DP. A DP shopping list! We've both done a lot of research. We should share it with everyone else in some kind of accessible form.


The real problem would be to get them prescribed.


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## TDX

> Regarding the Nuller study, the fact that naloxone isn't indicated for depression makes me think that the drug was affecting DP directly.


This might be the case, but DP in depression may be different from other DP and thus more responsive. We just don't know.



> I stand by my statement that the "treatment refractory" label is wrong. Even if we reassign response rates for various treatments to be more conservative - let's say 50% for naloxone, 40% for lamotrigine (+ SSRI) and 50% for TMS - those numbers match and exceed their counterparts for other mental health conditions that aren't given the "refractory" label.


The problem is that this assumption is based on a small number of low-quality studies, while in other mental disorders there is more reliable data. Should ever more rigerous study be done those numbers might sink. Concerning TMS it is to note that this treatment was researched for many disorders in the last 2 decades, but still TMS is not well established in any disorder.

But I think that it's true that a substantial number of DP'ers could be treated - if psychiatry wanted to.



> Have you got any proof that the Aliyev study is fake? I know it was retracted but that was for a relatively minor act of plagiarism. If the data was fabricated, I'm surprised nothing about it was in the retraction notice.


These suckers just copied the data of this study:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924933807013673


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## TDX

Proof:


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## TDX

> Nothing ever happens in DP research so we might as well make wild conjectures based on the limited evidence we have. We're probably never going to have it better. Sad but true.


Yes, that what we have to do. But we should always not forget that they are "wild conjectures".


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## TDX

That's right, but the problem is the durability of the effect. Often TMS only works temporary and we don't know how long it works for DPD. If it's only temporary maintenance treatment is needed, which we'll most likely won't get, as one course is difficult enough to get. But both the TPJ-study and the angular gyrus-study adress this problem. Unfortunately we'll have to wait until end 2016 and 2019 until they are done.


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## luctor et emergo

TDX and King Elliott, thanks for teaming up and reading through all available researches.

Do you have acces to the restricted / members or otherwise shielded papers?

Anyway don't give up and definetely don't kill yourself!

I'm convinced that a combination of psychotherapy along with the right medications can get us back in reality, whatever that may be.

What I do know is when under the influence of cocaine, speed or xtc I still had dp, dr but I also did't care,

thus it was way less intense, there was more connection with myself and the surroundings.

Do you have any suggestions for an additional medication that goes with Brintellix (Vortioxetine).

I'm currently on 20 mg, no effect.

In 2007 I have used 200mg Lamotrigine, which is now known to be an insuffcient dosage, for about 5 to 6 weeks.

I took Lamotrigine (Lamicatal) in combination with 75mg Citaprolam for about 4 weeks. No effect.

Should I try Lamictal again, but now go up to 600mg in combination with Brintellix?

Also, my cortisol was measured with the dexamethason suppression test, outcame was 52 nmol / l

while < 27 nmol / l is considered normal. This high cortisol level could be due to Klonopin withdrawal,

Which makes dp, dr, the feeling of detachment more crippling than ever before.

Nath suggested Mifepristone, what's your opinion on this?

Keep up the good work guys!


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## TDX

> I'm convinced that a combination of psychotherapy along with the right medications can get us back in reality, whatever that may be.


Medication: Yes. Psychotherapy: No. In the next few days I'll talk about this in the other thread.



> In 2007 I have used 200mg Lamotrigine, which is now known to be an insuffcient dosage, for about 5 to 6 weeks.
> 
> I took Lamotrigine (Lamicatal) in combination with 75mg Citaprolam for about 4 weeks. No effect.
> 
> Should I try Lamictal again, but now go up to 600mg in combination with Brintellix?


This and maybe Keppra or Topiramate.



> Nath suggested Mifepristone, what's your opinion on this?


Simeon mentioned it briefly in her book. She speculated that it might be useful "to the extent that the hypothalamus-pituitaryadrenal axis abnormalities in depersonalization might resemble those of depression" (pages 168-169). But I haven't checked this out, yet.


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## luctor et emergo

There are definitely some promising researches covering mifepristone and the regulation of cortisol levels. 
But since I still consider myself recovering from Klonopin use and withdrawal (6 months out). I'm hesitant in taking more medications and risk poly drug use side effects on a recovering post benzo brain.


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## TDX

> I'm having a bad day today but I'll read through your post properly tomorrow. I do have access to almost every paper listed on pubmed yeah. Hit me up if you want anything. It might take me a while to recover the login details to my uni's academic portal but I'm happy to sort it out. I'm on (hopefully temporary) leave from my masters right now but I still have academic access.


I dropped out of university, because of my disorder. But I can still get 99% of publications by using illegal sites (for example Libgen), using an open terminal at the library of medical school at my former university, interlending or contacting authors.



> My TMS is scheduled for October so I'll let you know! I'm thrilled! I had a long chat with the doctor in charge today. She knows what she's doing and said she'll prescribe nalmefene if the TMS fails. I can also return in the future for maintenance treatment if it works. Things are finally looking up for me.


You a very lucky to have found such a doctor. I hope that it will work.


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## luctor et emergo

*Thanks for your kind words! It makes me happy to know that we can help others. Something to live for. * 

You are very welcome! After all one school of thought is that people are here on earth to help other people. :smile:

*I completely understand your reservations about medication after withdrawing from clonazepam. Benzos are a hell of a group of meds. Your doctor/psychiatric/whoever screwed you over when they agreed to let you use them long term. I've heard the horror stories about benzo dependence and withdrawal and I'm glad you made it through.*

Believe me the horror stories, as you can read on benzobuddies.org are true.

When I wanted to quit the doctors only words were "you can do it" ... no tapering schedule, nothing!

rTMS is definitely something I am going to ask my new doctor next Thursday.

To give my suggestions body I will need all the current research, are there more than posted on this forum?

What are you (TDX, King Elliott) currently doing after dropping out of university, except scouring the web for dp, dr related information.


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## TDX

> What are you (TDX, King Elliott) currently doing after dropping out of university, except scouring the web for dp, dr related information.


I'm doing nothing more than trying to kill time to make each day pass as fast as possible. Most of the time I'm watching videos (often Lets play videos) on youtube or kinox.to. At the moment I'm watching "Star Wars: The Clone Wars". It doesn't make fun, thanks to anhedonia. Rationally I know I should do something useful, but I'm suffering from avolition. I had many ideas of meaningful activities, but it's extremely hard to actually do them. At the same time I'm often agitated, which means I have the urge to walk around aimlessly without getting anything done. I can confirm that without his primitive drives the human being gets nothing done and has zero quality of life. Life feels like an endless desert. Cognitive problems and the blank mind cause further problems. I try to sleep as much as possible, to reduce my time and abuse Mirtazapine to do this. I'm serving my life-term in a maximum anhedonia prison.


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## luctor et emergo

TDX said:


> I'm serving my life-term in a maximum anhedonia prison.


You will not. The situation you are currently may seem hopeless. However when you look back on the year 2015 in let's say 5 years,

there will be significant changes in your life. And you will have experienced emotions, because in time you are going to socialize.

It's nearly impossible to not feel anything when around other humans, mainly because most are stupid, shallow and superficial.


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## TDX

> It's nearly impossible to not feel anything when around other humans


Trust me: It's possible.



> And you will have experienced emotions, because in time you are going to socialize.


I socialized the shit out of me when I spent 3 months in a psychiatric clinic and I did not experience emotions. My brain is broken and I can only hope that medication or neuromodulation might fix it. I am just realistic. I don't belong to the delusional "We will all recover"-crowd.


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## inferentialpolice

TDX, on 20 Jul 2015 - 5:20 PM, said:



TDX said:


> Medication: Yes. Psychotherapy: No. In the next few days I'll talk about this in the other thread.





> I look forward to this debate.


Is this happening soon? What thread?


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## didep

You're not being too optimistic about ALKS-5461? In trials of this drug you can not know whether it works or not for dp / dr?


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## didep

Hopefully then that is as soon as possible on the market.


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## TDX

> I'm waiting for TDX to make the first move by explaining his perspective on the successful CBT trial. I don't personally believe the "therapy is useless" line is tenable.


It's a bit complex, because I am seeing both flaws in their theory and in their study, which in my opinion was not so succesful. In my opinion only a small subgroup might benefit from this therapy. At the moment I'm reading again their book "Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder", because it clarifies some parts of their theory, particulary how they handle "negative symptoms" like emotional numbness, which in my opinion is an important weakness of their approach.



> I can see where you're coming from but unless our current understanding of the neurotransmitter systems involved in DP is completely wrong, ALKS-5461 will perform at least as well as naloxone.


I share the opinion that ALKS-5461 might be very helpful, but you should be careful to draw too much conclusions from a small uncontrolled trial. While it's true that there is a low placebo effect in DPD you should not oversee the problem of patient selection. For example in the 1990s it seemed like SSRI were the cure for DPD, because Hollander et al published a case series where SSRI put DPD in remission for 7 of 9 patients. There were also other case reports which comfirmed this view. But Simeon et al showed in a proper trial that SSRI don't work in most cases. Hollander might have had a high response rate, because of a non-representive sample, because Hollander seems to be an OCD-expert. The same might be a problem in Nullers study.

I don't want to say, that ALKS-5461 is not promising. It might not only work for DPD, but also for depression (which it is mean for), anxiety, addiction, PTSD, Borderline and even for some cases in psychosis. But we should not praise it before we have it (which fortunately might be next year).


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## TDX

> Fortunately, unlike the case of SSRIs, we've yet to see a shred of research that contradicts the indication of KOR antagonists


And I hope we will never see such a thing, but rather the opposite.



> What I find infuriating is that there still hasn't been a larger, placebo-controlled trial of naloxone after 14 years. The field of psychiatry gives not a single fuck about us.


That's the problem. Theoretically it's possible by using a port catheter so that the patients whose symptoms stay away to 12 to 24 hours could get an infusion everyday. This could be done at the same centers where methadone is handed out. In my time at the clinic someone told me that he got naloxone infusions everyday, because of his addiction. But I don't know what the longterm effects of naloxone might be...

But as ALKS-5461 is on the horizon they probably won't do another trial with naloxone and also not with nalmefene.


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## TDX

> Naloxone was clearly never going to be practical for mass use


Well, theoretically I could have been used therapeutically, just like they could have used the Buprenorphine-Naltrexone-combo to treat depression and other disorders.


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## eddy1886

Fair play to you guys...This is the first time ive read this post and im very impressed!

Having suffered with DP for over 20 years I would love a drug that would alleviate my symptoms...

Just as a side note an anti psychotic called Dolmatil (Sulpiride) has really helped me over the years...Ive been on it since day one and it has helped me live a somewhat reasonable life...

The other things i would like to point out is that years of therapy never did anything for my DP...Exercise made it worse and various different healthy eating regimes didnt do squat for it either....

I believe at the heart of this disorder is a chemical imbalance which only medicine can treat (Unfortunately we havent discovered the medicine yet)

On a side note have you noticed that many of the "Complete" recovery stories on here seem to mention a medication..This leads me to believe there are no 100% recovery stories from DP yet....Just people who feel alot better???????


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## LostTheRealness

No. There are 100% recovery stories. DP can get completely away. you feel it.


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## TDX

> This is true but that doesn't mean there's nothing psychological going on or that psychology is irrelevant. Everything is ultimately chemical imbalances but they merely form part of a chain of causation.


The relevance of psychotherapy depends on the mental disorder. While psychotherapy is the first-line treatment for anxiety disorder, OCD, mild to moderate depression, addiction and most personality disorders it only plays the second fiddle in the treatment of organic psychosyndromes, psychosis and bipolar disorder.



> I can understand it when someone who's had negative experiences with medication becomes wary of it but there's a large contingent of people who haven't even tried medication and have absolutely no understanding of how it works preaching its axiomatic inferiority to noble suffering in the service of an abstract and uncertain "long term".


I think this might be more because of mentality than intelligence. While psychoanalysis is shunned by most psychiatrists it's still in the head of most ordinary people in the sense that they think in mental disorders that there is "something underlying" in themselves they have to correct. It's a bit like to astone for one's sins and might be partly a remnant of christianity.


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## Zed

What a load of garbage. Who do you think you are? You're no expert on DPD and treatments even though you make yourself out as some kind of super intellectual. I've read a lot of your posts and all I see is someone who's taking a cocktail of pharma meds with very little if any healing going on. I feel sorry for you in that way, but that's your choice to be so narrow minded and load yourself up with your toxic cocktail. I wonder when you're going to realise it's time to change course and look around for something that may help? Lets not talk about the highly addictive nature of the drugs you take ok. That's a battle within itself that one day you'll have to face up to..

When you actually start to recover, maybe then you can command some respect. Until then I'll continue to look at you as some naive kid experimenting with drugs obsessed with the world of science despite the fact that it's got nothing to offer for your condition.

You know something mate.. there's a whole lot of people on this site who choose not to take medication for many reasons. You seem to link the choice of not taking meds to some sort of weakness. Well the way I see it is exactly opposite. The people who don't rely 24/7 on the med cocktail can actually cope with themselves and that's a sign of inner strength, whereas you obviously can't and need to drown out your own feelings and thoughts asap. Man, you can't even cope with your own feelings and emotions and try and constantly run away from them. That's gutless where I come from.

Wake up little Britain. The pharmaceutical companies producing psyche meds aren't here to make you recover, there here to make a profit.. and you talk about how the so called 'charlatan' therapists are lining their pockets with money - have you stopped and thought about how much money you've spent on meds in the past few years? Besides, the OP was exactly right - there are NO MEDS to treat DPD (or any of the dissociative disorders) and there won't be any for many years. So stop encouraging people to chase the rainbow.

You're a troll mate. A troll who does nothing but try and push people into taking toxic meds of little or no value to their condition and at the same time you try discredit anyone speaking out about any form of 'alternative' treatment modalities. Calling people 'scaremongers' and a 'dangerous cancer' because they choose not to take meds.. how pathetic and an attempt at a low blow indeed.

And I like this one... '[background=#f7f7f7]Given the chance, they would unknowingly convince someone to commit suicide before trying medication. I invite anyone who thinks I'm wrong to a debate.' What a stupid thing to say. You're really a jerk you know that.. You can debate that one with your troll mates. [/background]

Come back when you've got something positive to offer....


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## devin44

: '[background=#f7f7f7]I've noticed that there seems to be a negative correlation between intelligence and an anti-medication viewpoint on this forum. '[/background]

Zed: 'Wake up little Britain. The pharmaceutical companies producing psyche meds aren't here to make you recover, there here to make a profit.. '

Yep...I agree with you Elliott. What a berk. Many good people are alive solely because of so-called 'toxic cocktails'. Should my friend stop taking insulin for diabetes because it's 'unnatural' and not the 'core' way she really is? What an offensive idiot.


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## devin44

Zed has just sent me this in a PM, thought I'd reply in public rather than being nasty in private.

'You know what?.. I was going to have a go at you for calling me an offensive idiot.. then I read your topic "Pharmaceutical advice'. Looks like you've got more troubles than you'll be able to manage anyway.. I prefer to just let you suffer without stirring the pot. Reading through some of what you've written, you obviously don't have much insight into what this disorder is or why you've got it - 2 rather essential pieces of information if you want to heal.

Good luck with plying yourself with useless meds matey! You'll soon see for yourself what I mean about the 'toxic cocktail', though of course you'll never admit it...

Your arrogance will get you nowhere.

Good bye and get fucked.'

Reply


 

Here's my reply.

'You wrote something grossly offensive to those who are only alive because of medication. Guess what - I went down the same route as you, believing that I could make myself invincible without medication and sort out my 'core self'. Then my world crashed down on me. It didn't work, for me. I'm not saying it won't for you - I wouldn't be that crass and presumptuous.

You tell those who are desperately struggling that the things which keep them functional are 'toxic cocktails'. You have no knowledge of their situations. Yet in a hilarious irony, you speak of arrogance.

For all your talk of improving yourself, you have a long way to go as you have behaved in a vile, standoffish manner which is unprompted and unnecessary.

' I prefer to just let you suffer'

Disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Go away yourself.'


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## thy

TDX said:


> Unfortunately this is what many actually do. Although depersonalization disorder might affect 1% of the population there are no self-help organizations that advocate the interests of the depersonalized. This is because I think that the ignorance of psychiatry is partly a fault of the sufferers themselves, who did not stand up to fight for their rights.


Exactly, lets start an organisation


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## Guest

devin44 said:


> Zed has just sent me this in a PM, thought I'd reply in public rather than being nasty in private.
> 
> 'You know what?.. I was going to have a go at you for calling me an offensive idiot.. then I read your topic "Pharmaceutical advice'. Looks like you've got more troubles than you'll be able to manage anyway.. I prefer to just let you suffer without stirring the pot. Reading through some of what you've written, you obviously don't have much insight into what this disorder is or why you've got it - 2 rather essential pieces of information if you want to heal.
> 
> Good luck with plying yourself with useless meds matey! You'll soon see for yourself what I mean about the 'toxic cocktail', though of course you'll never admit it...
> 
> Your arrogance will get you nowhere.
> 
> Good bye and get fucked.'
> 
> Reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my reply.
> 
> 'You wrote something grossly offensive to those who are only alive because of medication. Guess what - I went down the same route as you, believing that I could make myself invincible without medication and sort out my 'core self'. Then my world crashed down on me. It didn't work, for me. I'm not saying it won't for you - I wouldn't be that crass and presumptuous.
> 
> You tell those who are desperately struggling that the things which keep them functional are 'toxic cocktails'. You have no knowledge of their situations. Yet in a hilarious irony, you speak of arrogance.
> 
> For all your talk of improving yourself, you have a long way to go as you have behaved in a vile, standoffish manner which is unprompted and unnecessary.
> 
> ' I prefer to just let you suffer'
> 
> Disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Go away yourself.'


I'll lock this topic if it can't be constructive. That being said, If ANY MEMBER pulls crap like that in PM again, you will no longer have access to that privilege. Simple enough.


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## Alex617

Personally I believe benzos are the best, because dp/dr is only truly a problem when it makes you too anxious to function. If you have no anxiety, dp/dr ceases to be an issue. If you can avoid anxiety long enough to get a good nights sleep, dp/dr will definitely begin to lift.


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## luctor et emergo

Alex617 said:


> Personally I believe benzos are the best, because dp/dr is only truly a problem when it makes you too anxious to function. If you have no anxiety, dp/dr ceases to be an issue. If you can avoid anxiety long enough to get a good nights sleep, dp/dr will definitely begin to lift.


Luckily for most people the relation between dpd, drd and anxiety seems to be so strong that if anxiety is less, dpd, drd will be alleviated.

But benzo's are a patch on an open wound, they will give you temorary relief, by surpressing fears and promoting sleep.

However... what happens, when the patch no longer works, which is the case when benzo tolerance kicks in?

Yes the open wound will fester and causes more harm then pre-benzo's. My dpd, drd has been more intense then ever since tapering Klonopin,

even though my post-withdrawal anxiety, which was sky high for 9 months, has been significantly reduced by meditation and yes medication...

This might sound a bit harsh and negative, but I'm not only reciting from my own experiences. Benzo's are by all means no wonderdrug or dpd, drd cure!

Every medication has it's advantages and dangers though. Every individual is unique, that's why this community is so valuable.

Sharing experiences, knowledge, insights et cetera. Please do not condemn fellow sufferers or their views and actions in PM's or posts.

No individual on this board is all knowing, but together we can come a long way!


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## Guest

luctor et emergo said:


> Luckily for most people the relation between dpd, drd and anxiety seems to be so strong that if anxiety is less, dpd, drd will be alleviated.
> 
> But benzo's are a patch on an open wound, they will give you temorary relief, by surpressing fears and promoting sleep.
> 
> However... what happens, when the patch no longer works, which is the case when benzo tolerance kicks in?
> 
> Yes the open wound will fester and causes more harm then pre-benzo's. My dpd, drd has been more intense then ever since tapering Klonopin,
> 
> even though my post-withdrawal anxiety, which was sky high for 9 months, has been significantly reduced by meditation and yes medication...
> 
> This might sound a bit harsh and negative, but I'm not only reciting from my own experiences. Benzo's are by all means no wonderdrug or dpd, drd cure!
> 
> Every medication has it's advantages and dangers though. Every individual is unique, that's why this community is so valuable.
> 
> Sharing experiences, knowledge, insights et cetera. Please do not condemn fellow sufferers or their views and actions in PM's or posts.
> 
> No individual on this board is all knowing, but together we can come a long way!


Benzos are not a fix, just like luctor said, we've both been on high doses of klonopin and to be honest it helped for a little while but now i'm in the seventh circle of hell. There is no need to go on them, you'll thank me for telling you this, no one told me 10 years ago.


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## SinisterMinister

Brintellix helped me tremendously.


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## Guest

SinisterMinister said:


> Brintellix helped me tremendously.


That'll be my next try if Celexa doesn't help!


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## hurricane123

uhhh wow what ever happened to comforting the patient, terrible psychologist please find yourself a new one.


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## omarmm

hello

its beeb more than 2 years, can anyone provide an update on his dp case?


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## leminaseri

approximately 8-9 people killed themselves after reading this thread.


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## Peter

leminaseri said:


> approximately 8-9 people killed themselves after reading this thread.


What makes you believe this?


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