# What is recovery: Cured or just coping?



## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm confused about what is meant by recovery from DP/DR.

People post stories about recovering which sound to me more like they have just learnt to cope with DP/DR rather than its 100% cured and gone away.

Others just flatly state that DP/DR is a lifetime thing.

Is it actually possible to recover 100% from DP/DR? Meaning you don't need to keep up some special regime to in order to minimise DP/DR to cope.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

So what could that stress be ... Any sort of trigger ? This is fucked


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Why are we the unlucky ones to get this ... Pretty sure my mum has insecure attachment too and she never got fucking DP she is codependant yeh but deff not DP


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

You know what I don't know about this whole "insecure attachment thing" do you know why because in my earlier days I did stand up for myself and was very assertive, i was actually a leader" It was around 15 upwards that I ended up having those 3 ego states that Harris talks about the victim, persecuter and rescuer ... Plus at 13 was when I began to hate myself ...


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I honestly think it starts due to ridiculously low self esteem coz then u start watching and observing urself and u actually split and fragment from that


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

As I've said before, I tend to think of depersonalization as a tool which is used when one is unable to resolve some internal conflict (typically, as HH said, attachment disorder/personal boundary related.)

So, let's say you recover from DPD at some point (which I hope to.) It is then imperative to "lock-in" the recovery by working on the conflict, being consciously aware of it, and finding functional "outs" whenever you feel yourself getting stressed out.


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

What am I missing?

I see you throwing a lot of criticisms around this forum without explaining what you mean.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Still not clear on whether its common for DP/DR to dissapear OR the majority of people just learn to cope with it?


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Susto

You sounded like you just copied and pasted fearlesses word phrase haha


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haha fair enough


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

"you are missing the real meaning behind: being a coward; responsibility; repressed emotions; the way you deal with yourself; why you hate aspects of yourself; what really means to FACE yourself, how and why you created DP, etc.. it's a lot and will take hard work"

I actually get all that. But that's not substantially different from my model of DP. You depersonalize because you're unable to resolve a conflict - another way of saying you are unable to come to terms with certain aspects of yourself *as they are*. Self-acceptance, i.e. "facing yourself" is absent.

Actually, this suggests that the way to treat DP is to forget the actual DP and treat the underlying psychological issues as if the person didn't have DP. This makes a great deal of sense to me (but of course you'd need a patient who gets it.) Self-esteem, boundary issues, identity issues, etc.


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

I get all that intellectually. It's easy to say "do you really GET all that?" because obviously the answer has to be "no" since I still have DP.

It's difficult to access the repressed emotions in this state and connect them to the intellectual understanding because of the way DP structures itself in the mind. I understand what the problem is but have trouble integrating.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Susto

Are you yourself out of DP ?


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Wow we really have gone away from my original question


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Haumea said:


> Actually, this suggests that the way to treat DP is to forget the actual DP and treat the underlying psychological issues as if the person didn't have DP. This makes a great deal of sense to me (but of course you'd need a patient who gets it.) Self-esteem, boundary issues, identity issues, etc.


After rewatching Harris Harrington's program I agree wholeheartedly.

The only fucking problem is that I have no idea on how to raise my self-esteem. Harris explains that self-esteem, or self-worth to be exact should be based on existentialism as in "you're awesome because you're alive" not because you have a ton of external stuff. Okay yeah, that seems to be very interesting, yet I have no freaking idea on how to implement it into my own personal. Personality wise I'm pretty much pathetic: I look to others for approval and gratification, take negative comments very seriously, and I'm empty and weak inside.

The thing is spot on for me, but I have no freaking idea on how to change it...


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## mipmunk40 (Nov 13, 2012)

I have had DP so many times over the years, it always went away, suffered on and off since 1994. Just had a good 7 year stint with no DP at all, but depression hit in September 2012, then the DP came along as a secondary symptom, trouble is I can't remember how I got rid of it last time, just can't remember, so not sure how I can beat it this time?


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Fearless said:


> you have no idea how huge step you made by admitting it to yourself.


Well yeah, the first step of solving a problem is acknowledging it. Yet it still doesn't stop those fucked up thoughts in my head and I feel like a worthless human being. Obviously when my mood is better I tend to have better self-esteem, but still deep inside I feel empty, and I've had that long, long before dp.


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> you have no idea how huge step you made by admitting it to yourself.


I have many of the same issues and the first step, in my mind, is going off "auto-pilot" - in other words recognizing that the behaviors are *not healthy* even though they are *familiar and customary*. In a sense, Harrington's program has great value in that respect alone - you go "oh -- that's not normal!"

I'm looking into self-esteem programs and maybe I'll have something specific to recommend in a few months. Clearly, though, retracing how one's patterns formed and acknowledging the maladaptation is key, as well as studying how a person with healthy self-esteem thinks, acts, reacts and behaves. One needs a model.


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Susto said:


> haha, this is a trick thing. You feel like empty in the surfice, but deep inside you feel huge pain.


Absolutely and that pain is just awful...

[edit]

Or hell, now that I try to concentrate on it, it's beyond awful. It's just so indescribably severe that's difficult to put into words...


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Susto said:


> I know exactly what you mean.


Well I'm sorry to hear that...


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Susto said:


> I think about it this way: most DPd people are not even aware they feel this way deep inside. and this is a crucial step to recover.


Yeah, but to me those things deep inside of me seem kinda FUBAR and I don't really know how to fix them. Of course I'm doing those exercises in Harrington's program, but they don't really deal with the issue that I feel worthless inside.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Fearless said:


> First of all, there is no "curing". You're not ill.


If DP/DR is not mental illness I don't know what is!


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Lol what kind of response is that? You are not going to explain your posistion?

A maladaptive response of disassociation surely can't be seen as normal.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

My response, but not my brain? Where in my body is this response coming from then?

Most mental illness is a fault in thought processes and in our response to situations. Hence why CBT is sucessful in addressing mental illness.


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

Recovery=no more dp. in order to recover from dp you have to first learn to live with it and subsequently recovery happens. kind of a paradox. there are many recovery posts just search on this site. keep in mind some people who recover never post again or post once then leave. it is confusing because many places including doctors say dp is lifelong. which confuses me cause they are the intelligent,educated ones. but evidently some of them are misinformed. im not sure why some very intelligent people think dp is lifelong. some reasons could be that they never experienced it themselves and they have only studied people who have had dp for so long and had such difficulty recovering that they saw the doctors.


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> A maladaptive response of disassociation surely can't be seen as normal.


I think his point is that viewing DP as something to be "cured" is a maladaptive (but not unusual - in fact, probably the likely) response to DP, and one should instead focus on the underlying psychological issues.



> it is confusing because many places including doctors say dp is lifelong. which confuses me cause they are the intelligent,educated ones.


There's something lost in translation when the end product is something that simplistic. Clearly we know cases of people recovering fully, so that's not an inherent quality of the condition or anything. Do they mean "statistically, the patients we treat..." or "we don't have a magic bullet, like an SSRI for depression or an anti-psychotic for schizophrenia, etc."?

I wouldn't take it too seriously. There are cases with successful outcomes, so we should model those and not worry about statistical likelyhoods.


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Harrington and me, can give you the INFO. Like a RECIPE for a pizza. But YOU need to cook it. And just like with pizza, you will fail many times until you succeed.


Yes, of course, I don't expect anyone to do it for me, that would be pathetic. The lucky thing is that I know exactly why I feel this way, but the unlucky thing is I don't really know how to change it. The exercise in Harrington's program where you have to list the things that produce shame in yourself gave me a great overview, but to fix those things...


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

i think it s funny that some people say that dp is a choice and that it s up to you to get rid of it...
i have my dp since a drinking binge, i feel that something snapped in my head, that something is out of balance and once this balance is restored dp will go away, i don t have anxiety, i got depression after dp yes but not dp as a symptom...if you have it as a symptom of anxiety i agree you can get rid of it but if you have it as a primary condition it s not that simple...something is not right in your head and if you are lucky it restores itself if not you are fucked...


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Susto said:


> there is no primary nor secondary DP. this is a myth.


Right... And DP is a conspiracy by the Big Pharma companies


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Fearless said:


> translation:
> 
> "I have nothing to do with what I think and feel. It's not my responsibility. I'm a victim. YOUR DP maybe your responsibility, because that's different, but mine is another type. Recovery is blind luck."
> 
> With that mentality, I wish you much success.


Translation:

"I like getting on my high horse and belittling other people because they have a different view point"


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

Dude, no one's forcing you not to use medicine. Just enjoy those side effects, will you.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Ha? Random.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Random


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

As i said high horse and belittling.

As one wise person once said:

"It's arrogant for us to think our opinions are always the right ones & to put others down because they don't think exactly as we think?	"

I know you have experience you want to share, which we appreciate, however it may be more constructive to provide a link to your blog rather than assuming every one has read the gospel according to Fearless.


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

I find it kinda funny how most people here disregard theories of attachment style, etc while they're really based on studies and researches.

Disregard studies of leading researchers - advice avoiding hot showers

That's most of our forum summed up.


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## xxmdogxx (Jun 26, 2012)

look people always seem to make it more complex than it is, DP is from tension and anyone that argues that it all has to do with your attention or you focusing on the wrong aspects of yourself is missing the point. For instance I'm sure i could stop my hair from falling out do to the stress and anxiety if I just used my mind and focused on the positive things... no... its just tension and thats why we all feel like we are losing control, because you can't rid your body of all that stress with just your mind. That's like saying you can lower your cholesterol with your mind or exercise your muscles with your mind, its a physical cause that has mental consequences , thats my understanding anyways.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

Because?


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless

You are a crack up









And no normal people do not do that at all normal people get on with life and enjoy every minute of it.

That pain that we all feel deep down is shame about our entire being and I personally think that is where to tackle FIRST along with raising self esteem and paying attention to emotions


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Normal people don't focus on how they are walking and of there arm still feels attached

Hahahahhahahahaahhhahhhha

Omg something hillarious that I stumbled upon online apparently at the worst case of DP there was a lady who didn't recognise herself in the mirror and she said she would disappear and that wen she say down her legs would detach and start walking away from her !!!! That is fuckd up


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

xxmdogxx said:


> look people always seem to make it more complex than it is, DP is from tension and anyone that argues that it all has to do with your attention or you focusing on the wrong aspects of yourself is missing the point. For instance I'm sure i could stop my hair from falling out do to the stress and anxiety if I just used my mind and focused on the positive things... no... its just tension and thats why we all feel like we are losing control, because you can't rid your body of all that stress with just your mind. That's like saying you can lower your cholesterol with your mind or exercise your muscles with your mind, its a physical cause that has mental consequences , thats my understanding anyways.


But you haven't even recovered. Why do you think people should believe your understanding then?


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

AussiePheonix said:


> Lol what kind of response is that? You are not going to explain your posistion?
> 
> A maladaptive response of disassociation surely can't be seen as normal.


I agree it really is maladaptive. It's kind of like when your immune system goes nuts and attacks itself and you develop an autoimmune illness like hypothyroidism, lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, you name it. But this time, when the psyche is trying to 'protect' you from yourself by numbing you to the emotions that are created because your mind is hearing abusive things, your very sense of existence is attacked much like the healthy parts of the body are attacked by the 'protective' immune system with an autoimmune illness. But I don't think it's hopeless and irreversible.


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

AussiePheonix said:


> Translation:
> 
> "I like getting on my high horse and belittling other people because they have a different view point"


Aussie considering u just asked wat recovery is nd uve only been on this forum for a short time u obviously don't know as much about dp as you think. instead of arguing nd being a smart ass u need to keep an open mind and get an intuitive understanding about dp.


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## AussiePheonix (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm open to those that express their viewpoint while respecting others


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Fearless said:


> this was the post which offended you so much?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is English your first language?


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

Midnight said:


> Is English your first language?


Wow, I guess that solves the question if recovery is cured or just coping.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

JackDanielß said:


> Wow, I guess that solves the question if recovery is cured or just coping.


I was just curious. No need to get so butthurt about it


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> its just tension and thats why we all feel like we are losing control, because you can't rid your body of all that stress with just your mind. That's like saying you can lower your cholesterol with your mind or exercise your muscles with your mind, its a physical cause that has mental consequences , thats my understanding anyways.


Well, we know you can get rid of "stress", in general, with your mind through meditation, e.g.

Now, are you saying that stress which induces DP has crossed some threshold whereupon it's impossible to get rid of it through mental techniques?

But that's clearly untrue. The "stress" isn't "in your body". Instead, your mind has chosen not to have certain thought-feelings so you *do not experience* high levels of stress/anxiety - "tension" as you say. It does this by distracting you with symptoms of DP - so you focus on DP, which can be uncomfortable, but less so than what had you stressed out beforehand.


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## Joker (Mar 3, 2012)

Well i can tell you that im not coping with shit. Either i get rid of the thing using Harris Harrington's program (which i have been to lazy to get started with) or that's it. There is no idea in living life if you can't experience it.


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## chuckbrando (Mar 27, 2013)

I know this may seem like a philosophical answer, but I believe that recovery is in the process of healing. I have spent a lot of time in the past months trying to get back to my "normal self." But the fact of the matter is that we are all always changing. Some changes are more comforting or easier to manage than others, but we create our new normal. A lot of the strategies I've employed to heal are things I should have been doing in the first place. I never learned how to take care of myself, particularly as it pertains to dealing with or coping with the world. Since the onset of my symptoms I have started meditating, doing yoga, and journaling. All of these things will serve me as I continue with my life and have DP/DR exist as nothing but a memory. Recovery is possible. This is a highly treatable and well known condition. But we do have to be patient and we do have to commit fully to our recovery. Complacency is a killer in most aspects of our lives and I truly believe that complacency in treating these symptoms will lead us back to feeling them. I will say that I feel so much better than I did even a week ago and I am actually excited by what I've learned about myself in this recovery process.


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## Johnnychemonic (Jun 1, 2013)

No offense but I really hope there is some serious scientific research being done on these disorders from the perspective that there is no real underlying psychological issue that causes DP/DR. With the assumption that there is a definite biological/genetic cause. That It is in the interaction of the chemistry and structure of the brain. I hope PET scans and MRI scans are being correlated to chemical analysis of the brain. there has to be a brain wave pattern associated with these strange perceptual phenomenon and a subsequent association with a chemical situation. Tell me PLEASE that the research is not just psychological.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2013)

Johnnychemonic said:


> No offense but I really hope there is some serious scientific research being done on these disorders from the perspective that there is no real underlying psychological issue that causes DP/DR. With the assumption that there is a definite biological/genetic cause. That It is in the interaction of the chemistry and structure of the brain. I hope PET scans and MRI scans are being correlated to chemical analysis of the brain. there has to be a brain wave pattern associated with these strange perceptual phenomenon and a subsequent association with a chemical situation. Tell me PLEASE that the research is not just psychological.


After reading so many stories, I've noticed that the majority of people who recovered approached it as a psychological issue on some level, by that I mean they made healthy changes to their lifestyles and improved and repaired themselves on a personnel level, or they simply moved on with their life and chose to stop fearing and obsessing about how DP made them feel.

I'd advise you stop approaching it as a physical abnormality, if you think it's physical then you'll keep it in place by obsessing about it and researching any possible cause. The first step to recovering is not fearing and not fighting your symptoms.

The best thing for you to do is spend some time reading posts in the recovery section.


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## Justinian585 (Dec 4, 2012)

Fuck being miserable, whether it's the mental or in the flesh physical
Blessed are the poor in spirit
Yeah, I took it Biblical,
I'm so dangerous....


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