# Borderline States



## Guest

This is in response to another thread where folks were asking "what does borderline mean?"

The word Borderline is very over-used in psychiatry - and different theories (or schools of thought) will each use it differently. There is no such "THING" as "borderline." You need to ask in what context the word is being used.

The term you probably hear the most these days is *BPD* (Borderline Personality Disorder). All the personality disorders are basically "clusters' of traits and symptoms that seem to describe a type of person. They're not "things" you have but a type of thinking/personality/behavior that a person has developed from early childhood. Psychosis is really not going to figure into this kind of diagnosis - except that sometimes BPD type folks do have wild mood swings and may have delusions, obsessions, etc. that seem barely in touch with reality.

There is a more common use of the word borderline that many psychiatrists and psychoanalysts use - although the general public doesn't use it or hear it as much. But this use of the word was around LONG before the Borderline Personality Disorder term was created. Here the word refers to a "level" or "structure" of functioning. Those levels are usually: Neurotic, Borderline or Psychotic. Doctors may try to assess what Level the person's symptoms/disorder is organized around - it tells them if the person might benefit from anti-psychotic meds, if the person is likely to ever need hospitalization, if the person will likely be able to handle increased stress/anxiety during an intensive treatment, etc.

Regardless of what disorder a patient has or what symptoms they have) docs would label the patient's Level or Structure of Self as follows:
If self seems to be organized around a *Neurotic Level *of Functioning the person will be able to keep their reality testing totally intact (they basically seem perfectly normal, but have symptoms like anxiety, etc. that cause them problems). They might WORRY that they are losing reality, but they never rant or rave in delusional thought. Symptoms can be very bad, but the Cognitive ability is not in jeopardy.

*Psychotic Level *of Functioning means the person breaks out of reality under the slightest stress - they "decompensate" and entertain delusions, become non-functional, literally fall apart. Definitely will be in and out of the hospital and their overall ability to function will get worse as they age. Each break does damage. (whereas the higher levels, the person bounces back intact after/if symptoms can be cleared up)

Then the *Borderline Level *of Functioning is somewhere in the middle of those two. If someone's Self is organized around a Borderline structure, it means they do not have the Ego Strength of the rest of us, they CAN have breaks with reality, they MIGHT enter psychosis under extreme trauma, etc. This is probably what Ninnu's doctor meant by using the word "borderline" - as Ninnu had a trauma-induced psychosis, and seems to be capable of drifting INTO that psychotic state, but not as often or as severely as someone on a lower level.

A person with an anxiety disorder will either have a personality organized at one of those three levels. In other words, an anxiety disorder can be on the neurotic level, the borderline level or the psychotic level of functioning - based on the person's core psychological STRUCTURE. If a person is structured in a borderline phase, any and all symptoms they have will cluster in a borderline level. Likewise, a psychotic. A person with a psychotic level of function will experience anxiety differently from the rest of us - that person's anxiety is experienced on a lower structural level within the self.

The vast majority of us here are structured on a neurotic level. So any symptoms we get, anxiety, dp, dr, obsessiveness, depression, etc..will all reside in that level - which is why the doctor is much less concerned with "what I have NOW" in terms of some new symptom. The important thing is HOW I'm put together and where (on which level) all my mental experiences will cluster.

Then there are OTHER uses of the word "borderline" (as in "borderline schizophrenic" or "borderline behavior" and many others). Point being, you need to know HOW the professional is using the word rather than jumping to conclusions that the word itself MEANS somethign omminous.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest

So you are saying that different personality levels don't ever mix?

That means someone on a neurotic level always (whatever his experiences may be) develops symptoms that are neurotic (reality based)?

I just would like to make sure that I got that right.


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## Guest

Yep. That's it.
And good question.

(I'm just so glad somebody READ my post, lol......)

it's not "personality" levels exactly, but the Level of ego function a person has. In short, it's "the way that person's mind WORKS" (i.e., is set up to work, how it is structured since very early development).

It's the "bad" news for people who developed a severely psychotic ego core during early childhood. It's now their "self structure' - the entire mind/self is a constellation based on psychotic defenses, so there is just not hardly anything that can be DONE in adulthood to change it. Meds can help, therapy can help keep the person out of major anxiety/stress, but the reality of that person's CORE is that when under duress, they will psychotically decompensate.

For the neurotic level of functioning, no matter HOW horrific the symptom base, no matter how utttery crippling the person's fears/emotions, there is still a cognitive awareness of reality. The only real way such a person could ever enter a temporary psychotic state would be chemically (the old "amphetamine psychosis" that anyone can acquire briefly using "angel dust" or massive amounts of cocaine). But this persons' brain cannot "enter" a psychotic form of functioning on its own (regardless of how utterly petrified their anxiety states may be).

Peace,
Janine


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## genie

So does that mean that none of us neurotic bunch will go on to develop psychosis when under stress?

I hope thats what it means!!


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## Guest

THAT is my POINT! LOL.....by george, Genie has got it!

That is precisely why doctors just smile and completey discount our terrors of becoming psychotic.

It's not possible. It's not the way we are "constructed." It's not a question of having BAD enough anxiety DEEP enough dp, etc...

no matter HOW horrible (and I lived some horrific experiences) the brain, mind, SELF in my case had not developed in a psychotic defensive structure. Once you are developed, your psychological structure is set in stone. If you are older than four, you are SET in stone by now. Nothing you do or say or think or worry about can change your level of ego function. It is who you ARE.

"All" I could do, even if I had remained ill my entire life (God forbid!) would be to continue to find new lovely ways to terrify myself and make my dp dip and ebb and flow and torment myself to the end of my days.

I could no more "make" myself psychotic than the psychotic could wake up one day and become ME.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest

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## Guest

Ooooo...you be so smart. Seriously, I have a kindred spirit here!! Yep, you've really grasped it.

Kernberg, yes, was the one who came up with concept regarding ego structure levels of function and by all evidence, he seems to be right.

And you're correct - "thrown against the wall" though is a very subjective idea. See, I agree that if someone was severly traumatized (the amphetamine psychosis idea), sure...any level could be transgressed. But that level of trauma must be utterly extreme (given massive amounts of LSD and then sent into a war situation for example...I mean, EXTREME)

I do realize that someone with borderline level ego structure CAN have intermittent psychotic dips under "thrown to the wall" type stress. But that usually occurs ONLY when very young, teenage years, for example and then, the reality breaks are very temporary (called, or used to be called "micro-psychotic episodes" - I used to wonder, does that mean the person just imagines seeing 'little tiny people in their hallucinations?" LOL)

Those episodes are not like "regular psychotic breaks' because the person returns 100 per cent to the high coginitive level of thought that they once had. Other psychotic states (in the psychotic level) are decompensating...each time there is a break, the person is slighly more impaired and never completely returns to the original cognitive level.

But yes, at a borderline level, there are very odd symtpoms that can occur under stress. I'm fairly sure even I have a "high level borderline" ego level. I had some delusions as a teenager, young 20's - very disturbed times (only lasted a few days, and that's what they mean by "micro-psychotic" - VERY brief).

I think though, with all you've been though, Wendy, you have already seen your worst mental reactions. At this point, you're left with much anxiety around "going deeper" within yourself, but I am positive you're in no danger.

Also, Borderline ego levels seem to be the most vulnerable when the person is young. *younger than you, grin...not that you're old, but I mean YOUNG. And a huge part of what good psychotherapy does is that it can strengthen the ego, so that you rarely if ever regress to your lowest level again. That's the whole idea behind psychoanalytic treatment. It helps the person take their strongest aspects of self and make them even stronger. That's what keeps the person from having symptoms anymore. As said, I'm STILL a person who can dissociate. I just don't anymore because the rest of my ego function is stronger.

And the person in your group who is still BPD but functions on a neurotic level is a good example of that. That person probably has a range that incorporates the entire spectrum of borderline functioning - at her BEST, she is right at the cusp of neurotic level. They usually call it "a high functioning borderline" (referring to the BPD) and once someone is past say 20 or 25, they rarely if ever dip to their lower range if they've had successful psychotherapy. Their Ego strength is good enough and solid enough to keep them stable.
Peace,
Janine

(a Friend of Kernberg)
grin


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## kenc127

I heard that same thing somewhere, but not put together so eloquently.
My doc told me that people who have psychotic/schizophrenic tendencies usually had psychological damage done much more early on than those on the neurotic level. In other words, we all have 'damage' caused by loved ones who usually knew no better, but the severity of our responses to anxiety depends on where in the continuum of development the damage started. So the more early on the damage occurred, the worse off you are. The later it happened, the better off you are. I think this is what I heard. Does that make sense Janine?? Is this what you were saying?? Help.


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## Guest

Yep, that's right.

The person who has a psychotic structure probably had severe attachment problems VERY early in infancy. Or they had intense impingement somewhere around the first couple of years.

Preverbal is the key. Remember "Primary Process" thought - the type of thinking all infants use before they use language. If the trauma/damage is done to a child/infant at the point before they have mastered language, the 'damage' exists without words as symbols.

The structure IS one of primary process, and that makes it nearly impossible to change. Literally, there are not words to ever express it because there were not words when it developed. So the level of regression they are capable of is MUCH 'younger' - under massive anxiety, they re-enter a preverbal state of experience.

THe rest of us probably had our development problems around 5 at the earliest (*the Oepidal years). Our little brains were certainly immature, but we had mastered language and the level of thought it coincides with

Peace,
J


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## Guest

Janine, where did you get all your knowledge from?
Are you just reading a lot of stuff or was it the psychoanalyst you worked with who made you aware of all the things?
Just curious.


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## Guest

I'm OBSESSIVE, LOLOLOL

I was interested in the entire field all my life. During the analytic therapy, I learned more, honed in on the set of theories I found most helpful and well....I'm obsessive, lol. I didn't really LEARN it from my actual therapy, but as time went on we discussed theory, etc. and I got from him who all the best writers are, etc.....got pointed in the right direction for self-education.

I go to psychoanalytic conferences here in NY, attend workshops, etc....and read. Read. Read. It's my unofficial vocation.

Peace,
J


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## terri*

but,but,but...Janine, when you wrote you have probably experienced the worst of your mental states ( i would quote you on it but i don't know how to do the quote thingy ) with regards to Wendy, how can one know when they have reached the worst? I thought I had experienced the worst until 2 years ago when I was driving after hearing some horrific news and started seeing the trees and houses pop up like in a pop up book and the road became like a "ribbon of hightway". Scarey as that was, I still think there are worse things the mind can do. ( May I please never experience them.) So how do you know when you have reached your own personal worst ?

just wondering...again. :? 
terri


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## lone wolf

Hi terri, I am not Janine but guess I also can say I've experienced the worst I can. Indeed I'm aware I may be capable of experiencing even worse things, but I feel my PTSD psychosis four years ago was the worst. I think like this because I'm pretty sure I will never experience psychosis again, as I havent had psychotic symptoms but once after that, and even that was induced by sudden withdrawal of antipsychotics. At the moment I could say that I feel a lot more well-balanced than for ages, I don't suffer from depression, anxiety nor psychosis. I can study well at school and have my creative hobbies and that's why I'm sure I needn't go through a PTSD break anymore. Of course one never knows for sure, but anyway - time really has a healing capacity. At least I think I will never break down in the same way I did in my past, as I have learned about it. Nowadays I do not want to mess with abusive people, and that's why I hardly need to develop any new PTSD psychosis to get on with my life...lol :lol:


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## Guest

I don't know how to do the quote thing either, and I'm a moderator, lol...

Terri, the reason I said that re Wendy is because I know her and know her story. Based on that, and on how she has already responded dissociatively, and the type of treatment she is currently doing, she is having all kinds of trepidation about "going deeper" into herself. When I said she's seen the worst, I meant that a) based on what I know of her, and (b) the treatment she's in, and c) the insights she already has into her own situation, she is not in danger of regression.

Mostly the prediction (and of course, that's all ANYone can do is just predict) about whether someone has experienced the worst of their symptom states is based on when the symptoms started, how much if any trauma was involved at the onset, the type of treatment they've done and are currently doing, and the degree of psychological awareness they have regarding the origin of their symtpoms.

Peace,
Janine


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## terri*

Ninnu...time does have a way of healing and that is a hopeful thought for everyone. I am so glad you have seen and made it thru your worst.

Hi Janine,
It hit me that you were speaking from a personal level about Wendy ( hi Wendy! ) after I made my post.

I thought maybe there was some kind of "crystal ball" ( of course not really, but certain precursors) one could look into and see you had reached your worst.

Hey, that would be a good question...If you had the power to know the worst part of your dp/dr, would you want to know? hmmmm....

Thanks for taking time to reply.
Peace back to you.
terri


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## dalailama15

After lots and lots of thinking about this issue, and after lots of trial and error, I have finally hit on the definitive solution, one that absolutely solves this problem and one that works, at least so far, every time.

Hold down the left button on the mouse, drag the "cursor"(a kind of flashing little line) until the entire text one wants to quote is "highlighted" (color of text is inversed against a darker background.) Then move the same cursor upwards, untill it becomes some kind of arrow, and point this arrow at the little box above that contains the word "Quote." Then simply press the left button on the mouse again. Viola! For example:



> I don't know how to do the quote thing either, and I'm a moderator, lol...


OH, and about that other stuff. What, I'm supposed to solve _all _your problems?


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## Guest

> After lots and lots of thinking about this issue, and after lots of trial and error, I have finally hit on the definitive solution


Whoa! You're GOOD. Don't apologize for not solving more. This may be the first definitive solution we've ever had on the board, grin

Peace,
Quote Chick


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## terri*

JanineBaker said:


> After lots and lots of thinking about this issue, and after lots of trial and error, I have finally hit on the definitive solution
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa! You're GOOD. Don't apologize for not solving more. This may be the first definitive solution we've ever had on the board, grin
> 
> Peace,
> Quote Chick
Click to expand...

hey there...just working on Dalai's theory. i don't quite have the hang of it as I did not mean to quote all of that. Thanks for offering the help, Dalai.
Why can't you do everything? :wink:


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## terri*

JanineBaker said:


> After lots and lots of thinking about this issue, and after lots of trial and error, I have finally hit on the definitive solution
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa! You're GOOD. Don't apologize for not solving more. This may be the first definitive solution we've ever had on the board, grin
> 
> Peace,
> Quote Chick
Click to expand...

hey there...just working on Dalai's theory. i don't quite have the hang of it as I did not mean to quote all of that. Thanks for offering the help, Dalai.
Why can't you do everything? :wink:


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## dalailama15

> Human potential is the same for all. Your feeling, 'I am of no value,' is wrong. Absolutely wrong! You are decieving your self. We all have the power of thought, so what are you lacking? With will power you can do anything.


 -- HH the 14th Dalai Lama.

Evidently I _can_ 

I really love that guy. What a day it would be if he finally set foot again in Tibet :!:

(And the borderline discussion is very important and I'm sorry for the digression. Trying to be clever is about all I got   )


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## dalailama15

> Human potential is the same for all. Your feeling, 'I am of no value,' is wrong. Absolutely wrong! You are decieving your self. We all have the power of thought, so what are you lacking? With will power you can do anything.


 -- HH the 14th Dalai Lama.

Evidently I _can_ 

I really love that guy. What a day it would be if he finally set foot again in Tibet :!:

(And the borderline discussion is very important and I'm sorry for the digression. Trying to be clever is about all I got   )


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## Guest

Janine wrote:



> When I said she's seen the worst, I meant that a) based on what I know of her, and (b) the treatment she's in, and c) the insights she already has into her own situation, she is not in danger of regression.


I don't understand what the treatment has to do with it.
Or do you mean that the treatment is a reference point that gives you a hint what her therapists were thinking?

I ask that because I am still very afraid of going crazy.
Two days ago I had lunch in the city and I became very anxious and nervous. I felt like running away but I didn't. Instead I got those thoughts that mybe the people are against me and I was like maybe that is me becoming paranoid. Of course those thoughts come from the fear that when I run away there is nobody to help me. Anyway, I obsessed with the fear of insanity the whole day.
I thought that the only reason why I have not gone crazy yet is that I am aware of those thoughts, but what if I am too tired to observe myself, then I do go crazy.


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## Guest

That fear of going crazy is a version of a terror of losing control. I know it well, and all I can tell you is that regardless of how it feels, you are not "keeping yourself sane" by will power. It feels like we are, feels like "IF" we were to "get go" of that overwhelming self-monitoring, we'd plummet into insanity, but it's not so.

My comment to Wendy was basically meant to imply that she has been in a very indepth therapy, one that would already have provoked all kinds of anxiety responses, etc....at this point she's sort of "cushioned" against any major regression. It's hard to explain. But sometimes a person who has NEVER had intensive therapy, and suddenly enters an indepth treatment, might find that they start feeling worse temporarily...it can churn up all kinds of things that the person has been hiding from (thoughts, fears, etc.) But I've known Wendy awhile and I know the kind of therapy work she's already done. She's past the point where that would happen.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest

So does that mean it could possibly happen that one loses it because of an intense treatment???????? How is that possible? I hope I am wrong about that and just misinterpreting what you said.
Also, what is an intense treatment anyway?
The only therapy I know people are referring to as being intense is psychoanalytic therapy.


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## Guest

Nothing is as clear cut as you want it to be in this question. But here's the basic gist of what we're saying: you cannot be driven insane by treatment, lol...no, of course not. But sometimes IF a person has NEVER before in his/her life EVER examined themselves, sometimes upon entering treatment, they might develop new symptoms. They might get very very anxious, more anxious than they've ever been before...because they are trying to NOT see things that the treatment is trying to dredge up.

By "intense" I mean several times a week, and the deeper forms of treatment like psychoanalysis, or analytic based therapy or some of the psychodynamic therapies - anything that is working with the unconscious, or resistance or defense identification. Something like CBT is not intense. Things that "dig" deeper inside the psyche can dredge up some temporary increases in symptoms.

But...the LARGER problem here is that you are phobic about going insane. And the questions, the detail of your questioning, is only feeding that obsession. you are tormenting yourself by seeking reassurance that you're not losing your mind. You are NOT, by the way, but you feed those fears everytime you seek confirmation.

Peace,
J


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## Guest

From what you say I figure that there is indeed something like " the therapist performing therapy on the patient."
Like the therapist does something actively to the patient. Asking, stirring up things, confronting, whatever.

And the patient is left alone in agony and has to find ways to cope with it all. Sounds very vicious to me. Why should one allow the fears to be triggered, I kind of think it is healthier to distract from it. Because why should one expect the fears to go away, that is why one buries them in the first place. It just does not make sense to me to incite the agony all over again.

I don't intend to bother you with stupid questions, janine, it is just that I don't find the answers elsewhere, also all therapists i asked tried to prevaricate, so I am still thinking my head fuzzy to find some concept.
The only therapy that makes sense to me is CBT.


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## g-funk

My last post got obliterated so I am going to try and remember what I wrote! Sorry for these questions, just been reading a book called 'They F*** you up' by Oliver James and its very interesting but Im a bit confused on a few things.

What is a Personality Disorder? Is it one of those terms used quite loosely or does it have a definition? Most of us here have anxiety/panic disorder/dp - is that classed as a personality disorder?

Also, is schizophrenia always on a psychotic level? Is multiple personality/DID a psychosis? Some multiples have full awareness of all their personalities - is this different?

In the book, a guy called Rufus May was a diagnosed schizophrenic and was hospitalised for 7 months and offered no therapy except drug therapy, which he was told he would have forever. Unable to accept this 'sentence' he educated himself, weaned himself off the drugs and is now a clinical psychologist treating other schizophrenics. How is this possible? Is it because he only had one short psychotic break or perhaps he was wrongly diagnosed and it was just psychotic break and he was just borderline? I'm not really sure how to explain my questions!?

Also, one last thing, what can possibly happen to you that can have such effect on you, at an age when all you do is sleep, eat and sh*t?!?!?!?

Has anyone else read this book?


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## Guest

I have been wondering what the term 'neurosis' means for a long time, there seems to be no definite answer.

Like, when you look at the DSM, you have like 300 symptoms and all are considered neurotic. And then, for the next version of the DSM, some of the symptoms are voted to be dismissed from the book of mental health.
So well, the 'definitions' are as spongy as the term is. 'Neurosis' means 'nerve disease'.

My own definition is: neurotic is someone who harms himself.

Anyway, the term 'neurosis' is not really used anymore.


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## Guest

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## Guest

The only thing a so called intense treatment tries is to replace outdated defenses by more suitable ones.

Like my ineffective defense against anxiety is not leaving the house.
So another more suitable defense would be having a lot of friends to feel safe as a tool to handle the anxiety.

It is just all about this principle.

So that is why some think undergoing an intense treatment is useful because they think one first has to find out what exactly there is that requires defenses, and furthermore finding more suitable ones.

Whereas the behaviourists think that it is all not useful because the patient has learned to be unhappy, so it is time to unlearn trouble causing behaviour, or to learn new behaviour that promotes happiness.

Whereas I myself oppose those theories altogether, because both of them are antihuman. 
Psychoanalytic theories are antihuman because the focus is on rationality and supressing the "it", because the "it" is bad and causes problems and destructive behaviour and what not. That is why it is antihuman, because it states that humans are bad from the outset, only reason keeps them from destroying everything.

Behaviourism is antihuman because it states that humans are nothing more than drilled animals and should be redrilled to be valuable members of society.

Although I think that CBT has some potential of alleviating symptoms because it attempts to radically desensitize one's emotional response.

But in general behaviourism and psychoanalytic theories are all the same because both focus on the rationality and supression of feelings.
It is just that the freudians say one must first analyse and become aware of one's past and present to get better, and the behaviourists say this is meanigless and a waste of time and one should directly only address the obvious behavioural and cognitive things in the patient's life.
But the goals of both schools of thought are more or less the same.

Oh, and there are the eclecticists, they take everything from all that there is available, and state that one has to choose among the different theories to meet the patient's needs.
Not realizing that eclecticism is just babble because it substitutes for an own opinion. Because when there is a stand to take the eclecticists only evade their responsibility by just switching to another concept of reality.


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## Guest

Wendy



> The point of bringing old stuff up is to find new ways to deal with hurt, anxiety, anger etc


In my opinion the pain does not go away, no matter if one deals with it in a therapeutic setting or not.
In addition, it is sometimes even contributing to the general problems if one churns one's past in an attempt to deal with it differently because it requires manipulation which might result in more confusion and distress.

The only way to deal with distress is to let it be and find support and sympathy and love and humanity.
"Dealing" with the pain is just patchwork, and tailors know that it might be much more damaging if one tries to mend a precious dress.

If the pain is severe, nothing that is "mental" can soothe it. One cannot repair emotional holes with mental fillers. Trying this only results in bending the truth( the patient's distress). Emotional holes can be filled with empathy only and not mental analysing.

Analysis to me seems to be like the attempt to make an awful meal tasteful by chewing it so long that one becomes able to swallow it.
I think this is pathological because healthy people would just spit it out.


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## Guest

Still no replies?

Does nobody want to correct me?
Nobody shredding my heretical opinions?


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## Guest

LOL....you're entitled to your own 'Take" on it.....but I must say, whatever treatment you had in the name of psychoanalysis ain't no psychoanalysis I ever knew, lol....

bottom line: life is subjective. We like what makes us feel good. My own treatment came as a package - at a time I was able to change and with a man who reached me - the entire experience was profound to me. For someone else, different shrink, different time, different self, it could be crap.

Keep searching till you find something YOU can work with - rather than looking for what works. Every shred of change and recovery will come entirely from within - it's just that we need a "catalyst" of some kind to persuade us to do the work.

Peace,
J


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## Guest

nicely said


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## Guest

Hmm...

Very interesting. Janine Baker... I've never HEARD of the majority of what you wrote.

It is a FACT that my Mum messed with me while I was tiny. There's even Photographs and home movie's where She's acting WEIRD.

I believe my Mum DID scramble my efforts at "ego" development when I was... well how young shall I say? The youngest home movie I'm less than 6 months old... even younger. She lets my brother "BREATHE" into my mouth and then when I scream I reach my hand out, clutching air - She sticks my arm by my side, I open my eyes and gaze up at Her and She immediately looks away. I end up looking like a paralysed little ball of goo. My brother is asking to "kiss" me more and my Mum says no. She told me that She was very "tired" in this video...

Janine you wrote that parents act out of IGNORANCE... the video is ASTOUNDING in it's ignorance eg ARE YOU BLIND, PEOPLES???

My Parents and Brother blame ME for everything... My whole family wont stop shaking their damn FINGER AT ME. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Naughty, naughty, naughty.

And... Janine. I dont mean to "scare" anybody... How should I put this... Mental Health staff, Psychiatrists and Hypnotherapists. "Trained professionals"... experienced... trained professionals. Have all "blown their top" at me. Screaming, wailing, strutting about, carrying on. It's bloody mind-numbing... Another question I've been asked "Why does this always happen _TO YOU_???" Answer? "Does your QUESTION _help_ me?"

My "ego" regression is terrifying. Once it's been "triggered" people just tend to DOMINATE ME in my terror. Trying to keep me in that useless state permanently I presume.

Blinding white terror. And apparently all my abuse is MY fault. My regression is BEYOND embarrassing.

I swear. I've NEVER SEEN the references you've used.

I went from Psychosis, to BPD to paranoid.

DP, PTSD all ignored.

I've always been infuriated by diagnoses where I DO NOT fulfill all symptoms...

And stirring up trauma, panic, high-level stress and regression in me always just makes me feel SUICIDAL. It _doesn't_ "help". I can talk to a stress-head bus driver or check-out clerk and get MORE irritated than by the ignorant hit-and-miss STIRRING done by mental health idiots. My trauma = ME. It isn't a thing to trample all over 

I am still INFURIATED that Doctors and therapists have exhibited EXTREME instability in front of me and AVOIDED accountability. They always BOOT ME OUT THE DOOR and "change the facts".
"You _DONT WANT HELP_!" has been said TOO MANY TIMES.

I'm also INFURIATED with my "mental health" profile and the ensuing LAUGHTER when my FAMILY MEMBERS have all disintegrated before me and skipped off to avoid presenting at a Doctors office. My brother threatened suicide and regressed to a stupid infantile crying state, said He was going to THROW HIMSELF OFF A CLIFF and ran out into the night. My Mum kept a cool head, and didn't report it to anybody, then BLAMED ME. My Mum has exhibited EXTREME Psychotic behaviour and then just skipped off and avoided treatment.
It angers me.


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## daisymay

Ghost, just read your post - it breaks my heart to hear your baby story, sorry (I'm new here) if it's inappropriate to express this strong emotion. I think you have had the bad luck not to have met a person - anyone,therapist, doctor, psychiatrist, healthworker, good friend or supporting adult (I don't know how old you are now, sorry) whoever who hasn't been able to see through your anguish to the fear and pain underneath. I hope you can find support and acceptance here, on these boards. I was abused but I don't know yet exactly when it started, but as mine is more towards wierd pshyco-mind games than physical, I think it was probably more early childhood than infancy. But I, like you, have met a lot of disturbed and irresponsible people working in the mental health field, who have done my head in, but I also was very lucky to eventually find a very caring and understanding therapist (a man) who I was able to learn - very slowly - to trust, and now for 15 years I haven't had (apart from meds and therapy, a different woman now, after a ten year break, to help me "do" my other issues,) to go to any hospital at all, so please believe there are people out there strong and brave enough to be able to be there for you. I hope this gives you hope and my heart goes out to you. Hey, I've got two (beautiful) kids, am now married, and have been able to work for fairly long periods in my life. If anyone told me that when I was younger I'd have not only totally disbelieved them, I would have been grateful for them trying to be kind but secretly been furious at their total lack of getting me and the threat of having to be alive at all for a second longer, let alone "the future????"! So, hang on in there, and respect to you for your incredible courage - Daisymay xx


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