# MY THEORY IN FULL! slightly revised



## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

well, where to begin, i suppose it was the realization of depersonalization that got me digging. you see i have never been one to take "no" for an answer, and all i was seeing was that there was "no" cure. so i determined that in order to find the answers i wanted, that i would have to find something that they hadn't yet. thankfully having DP gives you this almost superhuman power of self analyzing, and a manner of obsession that (if harnessed) can be pointed in any desired direction, thus allowing me to dig deeper and think through the barriers that have stopped so many before.

while obsessively surfing the forums one day, i came across a post by cBURT, about a sublingual B complex that had improved his DP. in turn i thought, "well hell, it can't hurt to try". so the next day i started using one. it was only a matter of days before i was noticing subtle improvements, in fact it was the first time i had noticed any improvements at all really. that same week, i had my second panic attack at work. i decided to drink a propel fitness water because in the past i had noticed drinking one had a mild calming effect. well this time it had a powerful calming effect. i couldn't understand why until i read the ingredients, in highlighted letters it said, "contains choline, necessary for healthy brain and nervous system function".
when i got home i decided to research choline a little deeper. what i found was compelling enough for me to add it as a supplement. while at the supplement store, i noticed most choline was combined with inositol, i had no knowledge of inositol, but the bottle had some good things to say about it and suggested it be combined with choline, so i thought, "well shit, can't hurt to try". when i got home i decided to read up on inositol, i was blown away buy everything it could do. over the next week i noticed steady improvement, yet had this plaguing question of why, why is this working when seemingly nothing else does? it was that question that has lead me to be writing this theory to all of you.

SUBLINGUAL VITAMIN B COMPLEX - have you ever taken a B complex, then gone pee later and spelled "pig" backwards, then said funny colors. well that stuff coming out that looks like it belongs in a glow stick, is in fact most of that B complex you took. you see your stomach doesn't recognize B vitamins in such a concentrated amount, and as a safety precaution, it flushes most of it out. this is what makes "SUBLINGUAL" so ideal, it cuts the stomach out of the process and goes straight for the bloodstream. other than injections, sublingual is the most direct way to get the full benefit out of B vitamins. now to even start recovery, we need to give ourselves a tune up. the most important vitamins for overall brain function are the B vitamins. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LOW ON B VITAMINS TO NEED THEM. the suggested B blood levels are for people who are happy and healthy, WE'RE NOT. if your brain isn't working right, you should probably intake something thats main job is to make your brain work right. all B's play an important role in brain function, anywhere from assisting in the manufacturing of neurotransmitters to regulating energy release in brain cells. now i have been very careful about how word things with this course of treatment, but this is one thing i will say, "if you take a sublingual B complex, you WILL feel the difference".

CHOLINE - is a precursor for the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which is associated with the central nervous system in the areas of memory and learning. among many other functions it is also supplemented to Alzheimers patients to stem off and in some cases reverse cognitive decline.

INOSITOL - has been widely studied and utilized for therapeutic purposes. it's functions include (but are not limited to) nerve guidance, concentration control, cell membrane maintenance, and serotonin activity stimulation. while inositol is necessary for a healthy, functioning nervous system, it has shown therapeutic use in, anxiety, panic disorder, obsessive compulsive disorders, agoraphobia, depression, ADD, diabetic neuropathy, bipolar disorder, and bulimia. while you may not fit into everyone of those categories, with depersonalization you probably fit into more than one. which suggest that inositol would have therapeutic use for DP.

5-HTP - is a natural amino acid and precursor to serotonin, it is one step closer to serotonin that l-tryptophan so in an instance of supplementation it is preferable. it is commonly used as a natural remedy for anxiety, OCD and depression, which i find quite fitting for our particular case. i am still investigating the supplementation of 5 HTP with inositol. while i have a hunch they will work very well together, there is nothing conclusive suggesting that it won't be too much.

SEROTONIN - is a neurotransmitter that regulates many functions in the central nervous system such as appetite, muscle contraction, sleep, mood, and cognitive functions such as memory and learning. too little serotonin can result in depression, anxiety, obsessive compulsive behavior/thought, uncontrolled repetitive thoughts, suicidal thoughts/behavior, agoraphobia, irritability/anger, sleep disorders, addictive behavior, loss of confidence etc. insufficient serotonin can be genetic or result from lifestyle. some things that lower serotonin are stress, excessive caffeine use, excessive alcohol, marijuana and amphetamine use, inadequate sunlight exposure. vitamin deficiencies that lower serotonin include iron, calcium, magnesium, zinc, vitamin C, B3, B6 and folate.

DOPAMINE - is a neurotransmitter that controls the flow of information in the brain, primarily pertaining to movement, pleasure and motivation, and cognitive function. too much dopamine can result in disorientation, confusion, increased sensitivity to visual stimulation/light, anxiety, paranoia, can induce panic attacks, disorganized thinking, cognitive and memory impairment, delusions, hallucinations, mania, delirium, and DEPERSONALIZATION/DEREALIZATION! things that can increase dopamine include excessive alcohol use, excessive caffeine use, amphetamines, cocaine, excessive ejaculation, and sleep deprivation.

MY THEORY - given this background information, and the specific relevance to depersonalization, i have determined that my depersonalization (and likely, many others) was directly caused by an imbalance of serotonin and dopamine reaching a critical point, and unwittingly triggering it by a specific action that tipped the scale too far. for me, i was setting myself up for this fall for a while, drinking a pot of coffee a day, smoking a pack a day, binge drinking every weekend, and being under chronic stress from my job and relationship was tearing my serotonin to shreds and blinding me from it by stimulating my dopamine almost constantly. until one night it seems partying on very little sleep, while under a lot of stress from an upcoming change at work, was exactly what i needed to tip the imbalance too far. thus self inducing depersonalization.so now that i have established that i believe my serotonin being too low, and my dopamine now free to do whatever it wants, is responsible for the cause and persistence of my depersonalization, this is how i have been recovering.

ANTIDEPRESSANTS - such as, wellbutrin, zoloft, and MAOI's could potentially not work for some, because of their ability to increase dopamine activity. while this effect could potentially work to overcome depression, it would be traumatic to ones distorted perception of reality. so while some antidepressants may help by increasing the activity of what serotonin is still there, some can be potentially harmful, and contribute to the problem. furthermore, if currently taking SSRI's, do not mix them with 5 HTP, as this could lead to potentially fatal serotonin syndrome.

MY TREATMENT - naturally you would correct the imbalance, now serotonin, among all of it's wonderful qualities, has one particularly useful one in our case, THE ABILITY TO NATURALLY AND SAFELY REGULATE DOPAMINE! so with that knowledge it would seem the best course of action would be to raise serotonin to a point where it can stand up on it's own and do it's job. so that it was i am doing. 5 HTP, inositol, B6, and B3 are like a super serotonin combination, these elements combined will raise serotonin naturally and quickly. while choline, and the rest of the B vitamins are going to studiously fine tune memory, learning, overall cognitive function, and sensory perception.

CONCLUSION - among the professional opinions that have favored my theory and treatment, (one of whom being Dr. Mauricio Sierra-Siegert) i stand as a testament to all of this, i self diagnosed, i formulated a theory, came up with a treatment option, used it, and have recovered. yes there are still a few kinks to work out, but no, i am not depersonalized anymore. now this is not intended to be the overall cure for DP, this is a treatment option, and is case specific. if you do not feel as though this pertains to you, don't follow it. if you read this and connect the dots the same way i did, and want to give it a try, be my guest. however i STRONGLY advise speaking with your doctor or pharmacist before making any decisions. this is not something to take lightly, we are talking about voluntarily changing the balance of neurotransmitters. although you may have already done that unwittingly, it is NOT something you should jump into headfirst.

THE INGREDIENTS - to start
choline - 500 mg
inositol - 1,000 mg - 2,000 mg
5 HTP - 50 mg - 100 mg
sublingual B complex - containing at least - B2, B3, B5, B6, B12
folic acid (B9) - 800 mcg
thiamine (B1) - as much as you want

THIS IS MY GIFT TO THE DEPERSONALIZED COMMUNITY. it has truly become a labor of love. i will continue to seek out answers until there is one for every question. below are a few links used as reference, no wikipedia is not my main source, just where i got started. for any questions, comments, or concerns, feel free to PM me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_r ... _inhibitor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin
http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/c ... deficiency
http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/hor ... pamine.php
http://www.houseofnutrition.com/cholin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_vitamins
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles ... ns-busy-bs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublingual_administration


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

You are freaking awesome. Thanks for doing all this research and for sharing it with us.


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

i am glad to be able to offer all the help i can.


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## Zee Deveel (Aug 3, 2009)

This is really interesting and I'm going to look into this for sure.

I think it'd be sensible for you to add a warning to your post about 5-HTP as it can cause Serotonin sickness if taken along with SSRIs which many of us are on.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2009)

I bought some vit B with choline and that other one I can't spell! lol. In one tablet. It's a harder to get decent vits in England and I don't like ordering things online cos they take too long to get here. I've been taking them for two days and don't feel the last of my DR going yet, but I'll give it time.

P.s Zee Deveel. Is your name from the Incubus song? I met them when my DP/DR was bad. It was strange and I completely forgot everything Brandon said to me.


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## Zee Deveel (Aug 3, 2009)

I ordered a Choline and Inositol 2 in 1 capsule thing and some B complex fluid from Holland and Barret. Will hopefully arrive early next week, very keen to get started!

And yes, Incubus. The fact that you've spoken to Brandon makes you cooler than me. I kneel to you.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I went to GNC and got these supplements today. I brought with me a list of Tommy's recommended goods and told the guy working at GNC that these were what I was looking for. After taking one glance at the list he goes "Oh my gosh are you depressed?" I laughed bluntly as if he had no idea and said, "well yes as a matter of fact I am" or something to the sort. I learned that he is a criminal psychologist. We ended up talking for 3+ hours and had a terrific conversation.

I began taking the supps when I got home. I have to say, I have been skeptical about this. After taking the Sublingual B-Complex I feel amazingly calm. Good job Tommy on doing this research. If this helps me get better in any way you are my new best friend... along with AJ who works at the GNC by my house.


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## hd83 (Jan 10, 2006)

Hey Tommy! I was curious about your claim of antidepressants not helping people with DP/DR and potentially making it worse because it can increase dopamine activity. I found this article on-line that says SSRI's actually decrease dopamine activity. Thought you would like to read. Hope it helps!!

Antidepressants Can Increase Depression, Impulsivity 
and Suicide, by Decreasing Dopamine

Tarpon Springs, FL., Feb. 8--There is good reason that many depressed patients do 
not respond to Prozac or Paxil. Prozac and Paxil only increase serotonin activity. 
Patients with normal serotonin levels but inadequate dopamine levels will not 
respond to these medications. In fact, when physicians prescribe serotonin 
enhancement medications (SSRI) to dopamine deficient patients, the patients often 
become more depressed. The chemical structure of serotonin and dopamine is very 
similar. When serotonin is pushed above normal levels with prescription medication, 
the brain, in its attempt for homeostasis (balance), automatically down regulates 
production of dopamine. This phenomenon explains why some patients have 
become suicidal on ?antidepressants.?

We physicians must differentiate which ?happy chemical? needs to be adjusted. 
There are five main excitatory neurotransmitters, ?happy chemicals?: serotonin, 
dopamine, glutamate, norepinephrine and acetylcholine. If patients are deficient in 
any one of these, they can exhibit signs of clinical depression.

Recent PET scan studies have clearly demonstrated that the human ?pleasure center? 
(nucleus accumbens) runs off of dopamine! Specifically, the dopamine D2 receptor 
within the pleasure center appears to be our happy receptor. PET studies have the 
ability to quantify the difference in D2 activity among different patients.

Studies from the National Institute of Drug Addiction (NIDA) and several major 
universities have identified subsets of our population who suffer from dopamine 
deficient pleasure centers. A 2005 study from NIDA demonstrated that 300 pound 
females have approximately half the D2 happy receptor activity of normal weight 
females. A 2006 study from University of Virginia demonstrated that eating raises 
D2 happy receptor activity three times normal for a few hours. Sex raises D2 happy 
receptor activity ten times normal. Cocaine, which has a very similar chemical 
structure to dopamine and blocks reuptake of dopamine at the nerve synapse 
(connection between two brain nerves), was noted to increase D2 happy receptor 
activity in the pleasure center to 100 times normal.

A 2006 study from NIDA separated patients into two groups: on PET, one group 
demonstrated normal levels of D2 activity and the other group apparently was born 
with half normal D2 happy receptor activity. Both groups were given intravenous 
Ritalin which increases dopamine activity. The group with normal D2 activity didn?t 
really like or want to continue the Ritalin IV drip. Should it surprise us that the other 
group of patients who inherited half normal D2 happy receptor activity in their 
pleasure center felt normal for the first time in their life?

Should we surmise that this group would not only fail to respond to serotonergic 
medication like Paxil, Prozac, Celexa, or Lexapro but potentially could develop a 
deeper depression? These patients obviously are predisposed to food addiction, sex 
addiction and drug addiction. Drugs which precipitate the release of dopamine from 
the brain cell storage units to the dopamine receptors on the next brain cell are pain 
medication like OxyContin, Vicodin, cocaine, alcohol, marijuana, nicotine and 
methamphetamine. Based on a NIDA study, intravenous nicotine .7 mg (lowest 
nicotine cigarettes) was preferred by rhesus monkeys over intravenous heroin and 
cocaine. Nicotine appears to be a stronger dopaminergic drug.

At Florida DetoxTM, a large majority of our addicted patients have been self 
medicating clinical depression with any of the above mentioned drugs. They often 
have simply been diagnosed ?drug addict? or ?alcoholic? by multiple previous drug 
rehab programs. When these patients are properly diagnosed with serotonin or 
dopamine deficiency and treated with FDA approved medications, they no longer 
crave drugs or alcohol.

In summary, brain science has exploded since the year 2000. The new millennium 
will take us into a much less judgmental and more scientific paradigm of medical 
treatment for depression and other mental disorders. Doctors who choose to stay 
current with brain science advancements will provide more discretionary and 
effective treatment for their depressed patients. Those who don?t will always 
wonder, ?Why did Susan respond to the Paxil and Mary didn?t?? 
Sincerely,

Rick Sponaugle, MD 
Medical Director, Florida DetoxTM 
Board Certified in Addiction Medicine


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

ijkl084 said:


> ?????????1????UBB??????????????????


stop it


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## RosieBlue (Dec 15, 2009)

Hi! can you please tell me if you take all of this every day??


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## RosieBlue (Dec 15, 2009)

Hi! can you please tell me if you take all of this every day??


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

this post is actually old. it has been updated and revised in the link in my signature. i still do everything in the post.


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