# $150-$200 per visit to psych



## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Just wanna ask, who do these people think they are? Who do they think they are to charge mentally ill people $150-$200 per hour? My last visit to a psychologist was $175 for a 45 minute session. I saw this psychologist twice a week for about 5 months. That's $7,000 I gave for nothing. It makes me sick to think about the total sum my parents have paid over the past 4 years in mental health costs for me. And for what? Nothing. I am no different than day one. Lord knows I have tried everything out there.

Anyways I think these people: psychologists, psychiatrists, etc are sick people. First of all I have STRUGGLED to hold a part time job that pays $8 per hour. Who exactly do they think they are to charge us $150-$200 per visit. One psychiatrist I saw charged me $345 for a 45 minute visit. Is this a joke? Obviously I cannot pay that as I am disabled!

I understand they charge so much because they have gone to school for 8 years to get a degree. Well in my case and the case of most people on here that doesn't mean jack shit because depersonalization isn't even in the fucking text books. Even if it were just because they've read about it means nothing.

I highly recommend not wasting money on psych visits.


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## Cathal_08 (Apr 7, 2008)

thats ridiculous, how can you be expected to pay someone if they havn't even helped, I wouldn't take money off someone if for example someone asked me to give them Maths grinds and all i did was go around to their house and say i dont know shit about maths and cant teach you how to do any.

so why should a psychologist take money from someone if they dont know shit about DPD and dont know how to help them.
7000 dollars (5000 euro), that could of been spent on so many things like a holiday for your whole family that would of been more helpful than whatever your psychologist was doing with you.


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## rob35235 (Feb 21, 2009)

Call around and find out if anyone will see you "at the Medicare rate". Also you could look into some type of charity care, some hospitals have it, some don't. Find out which do...most which are connected to Universities such as UCLA or UCSF do.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

Look for a client centred counsellor. You should be able to find someone for much, much cheaper.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

I pay about 50 bucks every couple months to visit a psychiatrist. And, he knew about DP. Maybe it's just those particular people that aren't worth it...


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2011)

The miserable fact about the mental health care system.

The thing is you need good health insurance. If I didn't have it I would not be able to see my psychiatrist (twice a year for meds monitoring), my therapist (once a month) for counseling.

Everyone has good suggestions here. The thing is if you apply for disability and Medicaid you aren't supposed to be working at all. It's a Catch-22 and particularly terrible for individuals with schizoprhenia, bipolar, schzoaffective, who aren't meds compliant, who may need a group home situation.

Mental illnes is at the rock bottom of the list in terms of health care coverage, and disabiilty/medicaid funding.

For the seriously mentally ill, home is jail or the streets, or death.


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## ValleyGirl (Nov 10, 2017)

I honestly think what it does come down to is the fact that they want a return on their investment. If you have a couple hundred thousands dollars in student loans and dedicated 8 years of your life to getting this degree, you want to make the money to be able to support yourself and pay off your loans. The greater power a person has in the mental health field counselor as opposed to psychologist, the more money you want to make.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

ValleyGirl said:


> I honestly think what it does come down to is the fact that they want a return on their investment. If you have a couple hundred thousands dollars in student loans and dedicated 8 years of your life to getting this degree, you want to make the money to be able to support yourself and pay off your loans. The greater power a person has in the mental health field counselor as opposed to psychologist, the more money you want to make.


You hit the nail right on the head! Keep in mind too that with the restructuring of our healthcare system, especially the smaller reimbursements paid to physicians for medicare and medicaid patients, a lot of healthcare professionals are looking for ways to recoup their losses. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but this is proof that the idea of "free" healthcare is a complete farce, because those who can afford it end up paying for people who don't contribute to the system.

It's a cruel world we live in: those at the top of the game can afford it and those at the bottom on skid row get it for free because you and I are their proxy (tax) caretakers.


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## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah you gotta get some insurance...I think it's really worth cause accidents always happen and stuff so you never know when you'll need it. In canada I don't have to pay anything, but I do if I want to see a psychologist and they do charge as much as your psychiatrist. Another advantage is that I'm allowed to have a job on disability and get the disability check if my paycheck doesn't exceed a certain amount. Maybe you could move in with your parents, apply for disablity, and use that money to go to the doctor?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I am not in a pinch situation, thank god. I have moved in with my parents and they help take care of me. If it weren't for them I don't know what I would do. My point is that it's a messed up system and sad for people who don't have the support of others. Also from my experience paying for therapy in hopes of resolving DP has been a complete waste of time and money and I wouldn't recommend it.



Dreamer* said:


> thats ridiculous, how can you be expected to pay someone if they havn't even helped, I wouldn't take money off someone if for example someone asked me to give them Maths grinds and all i did was go around to their house and say i dont know shit about maths and cant teach you how to do any.
> 
> so why should a psychologist take money from someone if they dont know shit about DPD and dont know how to help them.
> 7000 dollars (5000 euro), that could of been spent on so many things like a holiday for your whole family that would of been more helpful than whatever your psychologist was doing with you.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. I feel like I should get a refund. I feel guilty that my parents have spent so much money on me and I'm not any better. It makes me feel indebted to them. Unfortunately (most) health professionals don't even know about DP and the ones who do know about it don't know how to treat it. Point being I wish others to know this and not get their hopes up with faith in the mental health/medical world.


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

My current psychiatrist charges $400 for an initial evaluation. He is very good at what he does...but regular visits are something between $165-$200 for a 15-20 min check-in. He knows what DP/DR are apparently, but has not implemented or spoken about a specific treatment plan. And he is spacing out my visits like 2 months apart. =/


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2011)

#1. I very much agree that all should pay into group insurance. Medicine paid for by the government will simply come from our taxes, and I only imagine (in the US) more red tape.

#2. However, in defense of doctors, my mother being a psychiatrist and first an internal medicine doctor ... Med School Grad of 1943 if you can believe it.

Originally there was NO health insurance. Originally there weren't a lot of high-tech medical procedures. Originally there was no malpractice, or minimal malpractice.

As I recall, when my mother worked as a psychiatrist in the 1980s (end of her career) she had 3 jobs:

- Private practice - and in those days it was 50 minutes per person with a 10 minute break, so your income was limited to 8 hours in a day essentially.
- Expert witness at a local Juvenile Court
- Psychiatrist in a Jail
- On Staff at two hospitals where she was a consultant for in-patients

Her yearly income was about $80,000. Out of the 80,000 she had to pay:
- Her own social security, and retirement
- The cost of renting her office, and all the equipment in it, all office work supplies, one secretary
- MALPRACTICE fees -- these are huge for some doctors
- She paid her own health insurance -- private as her affiliation with her other jobs was PT, so she paid for all her own healthcare
- She paid for all of her continuing education and journal supplies
- She had to pay her income tax
- She rarely got reimbursed for Medicaid as it was too difficult for her as an individual doctor to keep up with the paperwork on that -- I even tried to help when in high school. Paying insurance billers (you have them in larger doctor's offices) IS expensive as THEY must have a great deal of experience.

The big thing now is
- Medicine is FAR more expensive than it used to be, simply because of inflation of ALL these factors
- Also, I agree, it would seem we should have a flat insurance payment system -- EVERYONE should have health insurance according to their ability to pay
- Auto insurance is MANDATORY, health insurance is not
- Medical school is so expensive many are not going into medicine
- Also, if you ARE a specialist and you DO know what you're doing, you deserve fair compensation. You have to make a living if you're supporting your family. How much should a doctor be worth? And also, how much should we pay for very sick babies that wouldn't have lived even 20 years ago, or the elderly who would have died earlier 20 years ago.

There are ethics involved in this too. It's not simple. And I'm not thrilled with the 2014 switchover to socialized medicine (or partially socialized) as wealthy people simply won't pay into it. And those willing to take risks won't pay into it.

There are so many reasons.

And if you feel you're not getting your money's worth -- FIRE the person and look elsewhere.

And I hate to say this, and I don't know her reasoning. Dr. Simeon from Mt. Sinai charges $400.00 a session (she is a DP expert) and accepts NO INSURANCE. THAT is highway robbery.

Finally, you can't get anything for nothing. And it always surprises me that we DO value $75.00 Nike shoes, we buy video games ... there is a need for more austerity nowadays or you're in a mess.

And this comes from no party. I'm an Independent as I'm sick of both the Republicans and the Democrats, LOL.
Other countries work better than our system. But those countries were based on different principles. Yet it is humiliating to think the US is so low in terms of medical care, our education system, etc. Don't know what went wrong.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Dreamer* said:


> #1. I very much agree that all should pay into group insurance. Medicine paid for by the government will simply come from our taxes, and I only imagine (in the US) more red tape.
> 
> #2. However, in defense of doctors, my mother being a psychiatrist and first an internal medicine doctor ... Med School Grad of 1943 if you can believe it.
> 
> ...


"Low in terms of medical care?" In what sense? One reason why our healthcare system is so screwed up is because of the high administrative costs, a direct result of government bureaucracy and managed care insurance giants that reward doctors for curtailing treatment and referrals - it's a paperwork and record keeping nightmare! However, I live Florida, and do you know how many Canadians come down to our state each and every year for medical procedures that they pay out-of-pocket because the waiting lines for certain procedures in Canada are just too long? A lot! I have family in Europe where they practice a two-tier single payer type system, and a lot of people pay for supplementary type of insurance because "the system" leaves a lot to be desired as well.

No system is perfect, but the United States is still the leader when it comes down to medical breakthroughs in research, medicine, etc., and the rest of the (socialized) world reaps the benefits from our for profit mentality that encourages innovation and risk taking. We're not perfect, but a lot of foreign leaders, dignitaries, celebrities, come to the U.S. for medical procedures and treatment.......I wonder why.

People of bitch and complain about the high cost of pharmaceuticals, drugs, etc., but what a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of these drugs are so expensive due to the fact that the "evil pharmaceutical companies" have to recoup their investment/losses from a myriad of other drugs that never pan out, or do not get approved by the FDA...!!! And this costs money.

***In any profession, if there isn't an incentive or profit to be had then nobody would take the risk or give it the time of day......it isn't good or bad, just common sense***


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I suppose it's survival of the fittest and unfortunately DP strips away all means of being fit.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Dreamer* said:


> And I hate to say this, and I don't know her reasoning. Dr. Simeon from Mt. Sinai charges $400.00 a session (she is a DP expert) and accepts NO INSURANCE. THAT is highway robbery.


That is just flat out wrong, really. The only thing I can think of is that she is an "expert" rather than a former sufferer. I can't imagine a former DP/DR sufferer charging that much. I mean come on, $150-$200 is the going rate for a psychologist and that is ridiculous considering that anyone truly suffering from a severe psychological condition isn't going to be able to afford that on their own (without the help of someone else paying for it). But to double that? $400? Knowing how debilitating the very condition you claim to be a "specialist" in is?

I can't help but ask the question, is Dr. Simeon any less guilty of theft than the average thieve?

The homeless get thrown in jail for stealing bread in order to survive while celebrities are made of those who keep them on the streets.

As in the words of my dearest friend in the entire world, "THIS IS LIFE".


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2011)

Dreamland said:


> "Low in terms of medical care?" In what sense? One reason why our healthcare system is so screwed up is because of the high administrative costs, a direct result of government bureaucracy and managed care insurance giants that reward doctors for curtailing treatment and referrals - it's a paperwork and record keeping nightmare! However, I live Florida, and do you know how many Canadians come down to our state each and every year for medical procedures that they pay out-of-pocket because the waiting lines for certain procedures in Canada are just too long? A lot! I have family in Europe where they practice a two-tier single payer type system, and a lot of people pay for supplementary type of insurance because "the system" leaves a lot to be desired as well.
> 
> No system is perfect, but the United States is still the leader when it comes down to medical breakthroughs in research, medicine, etc., and the rest of the (socialized) world reaps the benefits from our for profit mentality that encourages innovation and risk taking. We're not perfect, but a lot of foreign leaders, dignitaries, celebrities, come to the U.S. for medical procedures and treatment.......I wonder why.
> 
> ...


I have seen statistics that strangely enough our over health care rating is lower than other Western countries, and it has to do with class. I don't know how we are supposed to solve that. Also our educational system is terrible or ranks far below that of a good number of other countries.

But of COURSE I agree with this:

****In any profession, if there isn't an incentive or profit to be had then nobody would take the risk or give it the time of day......it isn't good or bad, just common sense***
*

My question is, we have a lot of problems on a lot of fronts. I am very lucky that I am married (though my husband and I have separated physically) and he has excellent health insurance. And it's expensive. I was also illustrating what a doctor pays for. I used my mother as an example. It COSTS to run a practice. And I said re: Medicaid, my mother gave up on trying to comply with insane red tape re: that, even back in the 1980s and probably "let go" of about $40,000 which is a LOT of money for then. She could not keep up with the public sector red tape.

My mother was abusive to me, but she worked her butt off, and supported herself entirely. Many doctors are privately employed and must pay for their own pensions (create savings and IRAs for retirement), pay their OWN health insurance if THEY get sick, pay for equipment -- say in a dentist's office -- that dentist bought that equipment or went in with a group to buy the equipment.

I hear what you're saying, I'm not disagreeing with you. The same thing happens in other countries though. I believe say in Sweden where there is very good socialized medicine, they have poor dental coverage, and individuals take vacations to ... I forgot ... another country where good dental care is about 1/5th of what they pay in Sweden.

Yes, if you're good, you deserved to be paid for your work. I don't want things like the former Soviet Union, or Egypt now in the midst of turmoil where a a doctor earns $45/month, or a teacher $35/month and the educated have no jobs. I believe in free enterprise. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. But medical costs are out of control as doctors now refer for some unnecessary procedures to avoid malpractice suits. A lot of factors.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2011)

nirvana said:


> That is just flat out wrong, really. The only thing I can think of is that she is an "expert" rather than a former sufferer. I can't imagine a former DP/DR sufferer charging that much. I mean come on, $150-$200 is the going rate for a psychologist and that is ridiculous considering that anyone truly suffering from a severe psychological condition isn't going to be able to afford that on their own (without the help of someone else paying for it). But to double that? $400? Knowing how debilitating the very condition you claim to be a "specialist" in is?
> 
> I can't help but ask the question, is Dr. Simeon any less guilty of theft than the average thieve?
> 
> ...


My only understanding re: her fees is supply and demand. She may very well have so many people demanding her service she can charge that much and get paid. That's capitalism. What shocks me is that she accepts no insurance company co-pay last I heard, and someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, a psychiatrist visit for me WOULD be $185 cash, but I have health insurance and I pay about $40, there is bargaining with the insurance company and the insurance company may add another $70. So the true bill, if it were sent in would be about $110 as that's all he gets ... or he gets less than that as he is a salaried medical resident.

The thing is, we got dealt a bad hand of cards. But I could also say, since I have breast cancer, I was fully willing to pay all the copays. I was very fortunate to not have chemotherapy. I take hormonal pill therapy for 5 years. The most expensive cost of my cancer would have been chemo -- $2,000 an infusion. One session that makes you vomit, that you return for over and over again for months. The reason? A chemist concocts a complex forumula specifically for you, your type of cancer, your height, weight, overall health, etc. Without health insurance you can be financially ruined ... again, I am damned lucky. And I can't complain how much my surgeon recieved, my oncologist, the hospital, etc. I am alive.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Dreamer* said:


> My only understanding re: her fees is supply and demand. She may very well have so many people demanding her service she can charge that much and get paid. That's capitalism.


Yeah that's true I jumped the gun without searching for a reason. I'm just pissed off and want to be well. I need to be grateful and not dwell on the negatives. Dr. Simeon is great and has helped raise awareness of our condition more than anyone and for that I am thankful.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

nirvana said:


> Just wanna ask, who do these people think they are? Who do they think they are to charge mentally ill people $150-$200 per hour? My last visit to a psychologist was $175 for a 45 minute session. I saw this psychologist twice a week for about 5 months. That's $7,000 I gave for nothing. It makes me sick to think about the total sum my parents have paid over the past 4 years in mental health costs for me. And for what? Nothing. I am no different than day one. Lord knows I have tried everything out there.
> 
> Anyways I think these people: psychologists, psychiatrists, etc are sick people. First of all I have STRUGGLED to hold a part time job that pays $8 per hour. Who exactly do they think they are to charge us $150-$200 per visit. One psychiatrist I saw charged me $345 for a 45 minute visit. Is this a joke? Obviously I cannot pay that as I am disabled!
> 
> ...


I understand you. My psychiatrist charge ~$162 for an hour. I see him once in a few months. I do however appreciate this psychiatrist very much. I saw others before this one and all of them weren't very nice and didn't understand me (one thought I have schizo-effective schizophrenia). And this psychiatrist is always smiling and so kind. He told me I have DP. Psychologists I went to in the last years took between $67- $81. I also went to an intern Psychologist in my uni and see took only ~$20 for 50 minutes. She didn't really help me but she listened and it was nice.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

nirvana said:


> Just wanna ask, who do these people think they are? Who do they think they are to charge mentally ill people $150-$200 per hour? My last visit to a psychologist was $175 for a 45 minute session. I saw this psychologist twice a week for about 5 months. That's $7,000 I gave for nothing. It makes me sick to think about the total sum my parents have paid over the past 4 years in mental health costs for me. And for what? Nothing. I am no different than day one. Lord knows I have tried everything out there.
> 
> Anyways I think these people: psychologists, psychiatrists, etc are sick people. First of all I have STRUGGLED to hold a part time job that pays $8 per hour. Who exactly do they think they are to charge us $150-$200 per visit. One psychiatrist I saw charged me $345 for a 45 minute visit. Is this a joke? Obviously I cannot pay that as I am disabled!
> 
> ...


Here is what you do. Rent a nice office with a desk, chair and couch. Make up a fake diplomat. Get some glasses. Get a few patients.

All you need to do is hide all human emotions. Ask short questions to get them to start talking. Occasionally mumble, "uh-huh", "id", "ego". Be sure to ask about their parents.

Then you can afford health insurance.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

Visual Dude said:


> Here is what you do. Rent a nice office with a desk, chair and couch. Make up a fake diplomat. Get some glasses. Get a few patients.
> 
> All you need to do is hide all human emotions. Ask short questions to get them to start talking. Occasionally mumble, "uh-huh", "id", "ego". Be sure to ask about their parents.
> 
> Then you can afford health insurance.


lol


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Visual Dude said:


> Here is what you do. Rent a nice office with a desk, chair and couch. Make up a fake diplomat. Get some glasses. Get a few patients.
> 
> All you need to do is hide all human emotions. Ask short questions to get them to start talking. Occasionally mumble, "uh-huh", "id", "ego". Be sure to ask about their parents.
> 
> Then you can afford health insurance.


That is a great idea haha. Between selling the hummer and this we should definitely be able to open up a DP facility.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2011)

This is what surprised me about American Medical Care .... we are very low on totem pole in many rankings. We may have superior technology, but many do not have access to it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Granted this is a study by the WHO from 2007, but we really haven't improved much. And there are MANY reasons.
I do agree that having health insurance, I have NO complaints re: my coverage. And I don't think some understand that if you have socialized medicine you are indeed paying for it with higher taxes, VATaxes, higher taxes on just about everything. Nothing is for free, and I DO want quality medical care. I'm lucky enough to get it, others are not.

Question for the OP, can your parents provide you health care? Some states allow coverage be carried by parents for children. New Jersey alllows an adult child be covered up to age 31! They pay the premiums on THEIR health insurance, or if they have work insurance you can be added.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Remember, article, study from 2007 ... look under quality of health care worldwide or other searches

"Many Americans are under the delusion that we have "the best health care system in the world," as President Bush sees it, or provide the "best medical care in the world," as Rudolph Giuliani declared last week. That may be true at many top medical centers. But the disturbing truth is that this country lags well behind other advanced nations in delivering timely and effective care.
............

Seven years ago, the World Health Organization made the first major effort to rank the health systems of 191 nations. France and Italy took the top two spots; the United States was a dismal 37th. More recently, the highly regarded Commonwealth Fund has pioneered in comparing the United States with other advanced nations through surveys of patients and doctors and analysis of other data. *Its latest report, issued in May, ranked the United States last or next-to-last compared with five other nations - Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United Kingdom - on most measures of performance, including quality of care and access to it. Other comparative studies also put the United States in a relatively bad light." *

This is a ranking on a NUMBER of issues. An no, nothing worthwhile, or really NOTHING, is free.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

nirvana said:


> That is a great idea haha. Between selling the hummer and this we should definitely be able to open up a DP facility.


An additional benefit from these actions is that, if we get caught, we can plead 'insanity' and might gain access to some health care.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Visual Dude said:


> An additional benefit from these actions is that, if we get caught, we can plead 'insanity' and might gain access to some health care.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

There is the world we live in, and a world that could be. Shall we continue to orient our lives around money? Just as with health care, shall we start to charge our kids for raising them too? (Like 'student loans') Hmm&#8230;add a little interest and think how rich you could be if you had a dozen. Another money making scheme feasting on the flesh of others.

What is the cost of love? Human compassion? If everyone became a humanitarian and advocate for the poor and helpless, there would be no more poor and helpless - including ourselves.

Such a change of heart would require that all people do so. Until then, it is survival of the fittest (or those with power) and rest of us must do what we can to get better.


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## JoCZker (Jul 31, 2009)

Ahem.







I can hardly add to this discussion, since i live in very different country then US. But just for comparison. I live in middle Europe country, so no third world, and almost every psychologist or psychotherapist have tax around 30 dollars for hour (45 minutes), including the best ones. Average month wage is somewhere about 1000 - 1100 dollars. Psychiatric care and basically every other medical care is free, we just pay something about 1 dollar for visit, and there were great discussion about this payment. Everybody in this country have medical insurance. But dont worry, we are clearly living too well, so our great government is trying to make our medical system more US, cause its better by their standards.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2011)

JoCZker said:


> Ahem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks JoCZker. Yes it's important what you added to the conversation being from a different country! No ONE system of health care is perfect. That is why we are fighting with ours and your country is fighting with yours. There are ups and downs to private health care vs. socialized medicine. BOTH have faults, both leave people without services for various reasons.

Bottom line in ANY country, if you have a lot of money, you will get the best health care. There has always been an upper class, middle class and lower class, and that is simply a fact.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

JoCZker said:


> Ahem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please stop intimating that medical care in your country is free. They just tax you more, or levy a progressive tax on those high earning risk taking entrepreneurs (the rich), you know, those creative, hard working people who provide jobs for the private and public sector.

Keep in in mind that we have a lot of people here in the U.S. who would rather pay $599 per month for a nice ride as opposed to forking out their money for an insurance premium....why?? Because they feel it's their RIGHT to get free health care. Priorities people...priorities. Moreover, ask all those illegal immigrants who are bankrupting California's health care system if their "free" healthcare is really substandard.

A lot of people want to take...but give? Nah...it should all be free, right?


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Then the common man joins us, the mentally ill ---> http://opinion.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c7de353ef01348937f854970c-500wi


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## UniversalShape1 (Nov 22, 2010)

Psychiatry is just a big business pharmaceutical companies are like drug cartels and psychiatrists are just professional drug dealers. They listen to you talk put you in a category and fill out a prescription for some pharmaceutical drug which sponsors their practice. I always put aside the notion that I needed a psychiatrist and pharmaceutical drug to help me recover. I believe it just builds a false reliance on "expert-ism" and artificial chemicals for relief of personal psychological pressures. I Always kept in mind the quote "you are your own best psychiatrist" no one should know you better than you know yourself. I understand dp sufferers can easily lose hope and cling to others but I myself lost faith in "psychiatry" and pharmaceutical drugs a long time ago when I realized that most of these fuks don't have any fucking idea as to what they're talking about when it comes to depersonalization and dissociative states of consciousness. They want the public drugged out on chemicals to fit the system more effectively, depressed ? don't think about what's really causing your depression just take these anti-depressants and feel fake happiness go out and buy stuff. Can't sleep ? take this ambien so you could go to sleep wake up in the morning for work and not remember what happened the day before.

Just remember the capital factor here everything in this country revolves around making a profit, no one does jack shit out of the goodness of their heart it's all for the sole intent of making capital and paying off your "debts"


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2011)

UniversalShape1 said:


> Psychiatry is just a big business pharmaceutical companies are like drug cartels and psychiatrists are just professional drug dealers. They listen to you talk put you in a category and fill out a prescription for some pharmaceutical drug which sponsors their practice. I always put aside the notion that I needed a psychiatrist and pharmaceutical drug to help me recover. I believe it just builds a false reliance on "expert-ism" and artificial chemicals for relief of personal psychological pressures. I Always kept in mind the quote "you are your own best psychiatrist" no one should know you better than you know yourself. I understand dp sufferers can easily lose hope and cling to others but I myself lost faith in "psychiatry" and pharmaceutical drugs a long time ago when I realized that most of these fuks don't have any fucking idea as to what they're talking about when it comes to depersonalization and dissociative states of consciousness. They want the public drugged out on chemicals to fit the system more effectively, depressed ? don't think about what's really causing your depression just take these anti-depressants and feel fake happiness go out and buy stuff. Can't sleep ? take this ambien so you could go to sleep wake up in the morning for work and not remember what happened the day before.
> 
> Just remember the capital factor here everything in this country revolves around making a profit, no one does jack shit out of the goodness of their heart it's all for the sole intent of making capital and paying off your "debts"


_*GAH! Have you forgotten that psychiatry is a VERY young discipline. Freud believed every mental illness was caused by "conflicted or repressed emotions." Didn't leave many people much help -- schizoprhenia, bipolar, depression, anyone? How often do I have to say this. There were no Big Pharma companies during the earliest research and treatment of brain disorders. Many drugs are new discoveries that do HELP people. Many are imperfect, some *_

I have run into excellent psychiatrists and therapists, and terrible ones. You can say the same for ANY doctor. I've had scary ass eye doctors, back doctors that I nearly fled the room from, and a horrible guy who butchered my sinus' years ago. Who knew? As the saying goes, no matter what Medical School someone goes to, there is always someone who is the BOTTOM of his/her class.

We also have a lot of excellent foreign doctors who earn much more here, even if they don't earn as much as their US counterparts.

And I do indeed have a question again.

The US is a capitalist country. This is what this country is based upon. Free enterprise. And it was founded only a few hundred years ago in 1776. People have to work in every other country in the world, for money to pay for the things they need. In countries with socialized medicine, if someone has money they may also choose to have private health insurance. That is their right. I'm glad I don't live in certain areas of Africa where there is no treatment for malaria, polio or AIDS. AND where no one has a job.

And in terms of ANYONE making money. How, may I ask does ANYONE support one's self without making a wage of some sort? In the past people bartered chickens and potatoes. Shall we go back to that?

How do you measure the value of a doctor vs. a movie star vs. a teacher vs. a sports figure. We clearly value sports figures and movie stars over scientists the others listed.

How do you pay your basic bills?

If you have a job ... will you simply bypass taking a wage/salary? How do you wish to be paid so that you can take those earnings to purchase items you need to survive, support your family, have a place to live.

It's true, somehow, people think they are entitled to having something for nothing.

I honestly have to ask -- 
1. What should we do if we have no monetary system -- we are no longer in a bartering era and we have global economy
2. Do you not feel guilty owning your computer for instance which was probably built in China? How much is its true value?
3. How do you pay for your food at a market?

And though many of us have a disability that may prevent us from working, there are many, many other people who work their asses off. And as noted, in say Canada, there may be a social medical system, however it is paid for by taking money from someone's paycheck. It is payed for for charging more tax on food and other goods. How else can the world operate in 2011 without money?

It would be nice to go back to Egypt and barter with spices or something, but even ancient civilizations had money.

And regardless we are all expected to work as we are all contributing to our own survival as well as the survival of our species. If we all sat around and didn't grow food as the simplest example -- how would we eat?

Just basic questions.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2011)

Weird that didn't let me type a section.

No drug is a cure, save perhaps antibiotics and certain classes of drugs. Psychiatric drugs are very simple and the brain is very complex.

But there are drugs for EVERY ILLNESS that have dangerous side effects, have been pulled from the market, etc.

I still say, I have no complaints about my psych meds as I am alive because of them.

It is so easy to blame EVERYTHING on ONE simple thing with a catch phrase "Big Pharma" when a bad doctor could misdiagnose and misprescribe.

*1, We are all unique.
2. NOTHING IS FREE. NOTHING.*


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## JoCZker (Jul 31, 2009)

Dreamland said:


> Please stop intimating that medical care in your country is free. They just tax you more, or levy a progressive tax on those high earning risk taking entrepreneurs (the rich), you know, those creative, hard working people who provide jobs for the private and public sector.
> 
> Keep in in mind that we have a lot of people here in the U.S. who would rather pay $599 per month for a nice ride as opposed to forking out their money for an insurance premium....why?? Because they feel it's their RIGHT to get free health care. Priorities people...priorities. Moreover, ask all those illegal immigrants who are bankrupting California's health care system if their "free" healthcare is really substandard.
> 
> A lot of people want to take...but give? Nah...it should all be free, right?


I really dont think that this site is proper site for political discussion.







And i dont wanna be a troll.







But since this topic is little about medical systems and since my neurotism doesnt allow me not to answer to your polite commentary, i would like to write just a few things:

"Please stop intimating that medical care in your country is free. They just tax you more, or levy a progressive tax on those high earning risk taking entrepreneurs (the rich), you know, those creative, hard working people who provide jobs for the private and public sector."

Yes, our system is not exactly "free" per se. We pay taxes. But its "free" to go to the doctor or get a checkup. Its absolutelly legit medical system and quite common in Europe. And our countrys current tax system may actually be considered degressive, so you dont have to worry about "those creative, hard working people who provide jobs for the private and public sector"









". . . Because they feel it's their RIGHT to get free health care."

We have right to get free health care for every citizen in our constitution. Should we burn it?

"A lot of people want to take...but give? Nah...it should all be free, right?"

As you said before, "free" medical system is not free per se, so i dont understand your point. Everybody in my country is paying to this system and everybody have right to use it when he need it. Whats so devilish about it? There are many systems of medical care in the world. Every have advantages and disadvantages. Its right of every country to choose the one they considered the best. And our system is working. Yes, my answer may be a little rude, but i dont know why you are so angry about this? Its not good versus evil. Its not black and white . . .


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I went to see a psychologist not that long ago just to get an "official" diagnosis and it cost me £200 for an hour, which is about $330. This woman was very nice and had loads of degrees and letters behind her name but when it came down to it the way she helps people is though CBT and mindfulness training, that's it, which is something you can learn yourself in a few hours from books. All the qualifications and degrees these people have really don't mean anything because when it comes to helping people the amount of books you have read doesn't matter, what matters in my view is level of health, empathy, compassion and ability to listen of the therapist, so someone charging almost nothing could be better than the person charging hundreds of $


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## resinoptes (Jan 15, 2011)




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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Pablo said:


> I went to see a psychologist not that long ago just to get an "official" diagnosis and it cost me £200 for an hour, which is about $330. This woman was very nice and had loads of degrees and letters behind her name but when it came down to it the way she helps people is though CBT and mindfulness training, that's it, which is something you can learn yourself in a few hours from books. All the qualifications and degrees these people have really don't mean anything because when it comes to helping people the amount of books you have read doesn't matter, what matters in my view is level of health, empathy, compassion and ability to listen of the therapist, so someone charging almost nothing could be better than the person charging hundreds of $


*All the qualifications and degrees these people have really don't mean anything because when it comes to helping people the amount of books you have read doesn't matter, what matters in my view is level of health, empathy, compassion and ability to listen of the therapist, so someone charging almost nothing could be better than the person charging hundreds of $*

Absolutely!

The movie, "The Kings Speech" (a true story) is an example of this!


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2011)

Oh, this is indeed a useless argument and I'm still waiting for an important call.

Psychiatrists learn from books, doctors learn from books, but they also work directly with patients. And I have an excellent therapist who is an ACSW (a clinical social worker) who has worked with both inpatients and outpatients for 25 years. ONE ON ONE. You learn a lot from that.

And Lord Have Mercy, I'd be scared to death if a doctor performed surgery on me, and I wasn't the 1,000th surgery they had performed.

There are excellent doctors and there are terrible doctors and everything in between.

Psychiatry is the diciest profession as it is moving from letting go of the psychoanalytic school and towards a CLEARLY proven Neurological model. I believe in 20 years psychiatry will be subsumed under neurology, and there will be better training.

It is unfortunate so many receive bad psychiatric treatment. I have too. And so I make it a point to educate every doctor I run into about DP/DR in particular, even my GP, my dentist (I don't want sodium pentothol sp?), my oncologist, etc. I don't care what the Hell they think of me. Yes, we need to educate ourselves and speak up.

Thank god phone ringing.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Dreamer* said:


> Oh, this is indeed a useless argument and I'm still waiting for an important call.
> 
> Psychiatrists learn from books, doctors learn from books, but they also work directly with patients. And I have an excellent therapist who is an ACSW (a clinical social worker) who has worked with both inpatients and outpatients for 25 years. ONE ON ONE. You learn a lot from that.
> 
> ...


Speaking of bad doctors, what is it with physicians and psychiatrists and their penchant for wanting to prescribe pills for everything under sun? I'll never forget this one time, about seven years ago, when I went to see the doctor because I was "depressed", I guess, and suffering from insomnia. He didn't really pay attention to what I was saying and kind off listened to me for ten minutes, nodding his head, and came to the conclusion that I should try Paxil. Feeling pretty down and out as it was, I decided to acquiesce and headed to the pharmacy to fill my script, but after taking the first pill I realized that this stuff was definitely not for me due to all the bizarre side effects and what not, so I discarded the whole bottle....in the trash it went!

Needles to say, that episode scared me right out of my funk and I was up and running like my old self about a month later - I guess that the negative experience with said physician and the medication he prescribed was tantamount to a "Scared Straight" episode, one in which troubled teens are subjected to stories by hardcore criminals about prison life in a actual penitentiary!.....LOL!!


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

Dreamland said:


> Speaking of bad doctors, what is it with physicians and psychiatrists and their penchant for wanting to prescribe pills for everything under sun?


Probably a lot to do with their education being based on biology, being based on chemistry, makes it reasonable.


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## UniversalShape1 (Nov 22, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> _*GAH! Have you forgotten that psychiatry is a VERY young discipline. Freud believed every mental illness was caused by "conflicted or repressed emotions." Didn't leave many people much help -- schizoprhenia, bipolar, depression, anyone? How often do I have to say this. There were no Big Pharma companies during the earliest research and treatment of brain disorders. Many drugs are new discoveries that do HELP people. Many are imperfect, some *_
> 
> I have run into excellent psychiatrists and therapists, and terrible ones. You can say the same for ANY doctor. I've had scary ass eye doctors, back doctors that I nearly fled the room from, and a horrible guy who butchered my sinus' years ago. Who knew? As the saying goes, no matter what Medical School someone goes to, there is always someone who is the BOTTOM of his/her class.
> 
> ...


The U.S. is not a capitalist free enterprise country anymore it's moving towards socialism at an accelerated rate. "in other countries with socialized medicine" < what other countries the u.s. has socialized medicine



> I'm glad I don't live in certain areas of Africa where there is no treatment for malaria, polio or AIDS. AND where no one has a job.


That's good for you I'm glad you're glad but your drawing comparisons that are disproportionate to the fact. Anyone can compare starvation and malaria in Africa to their own living conditions and be glad by comparison but that's beyond the point.



> And in terms of ANYONE making money. How, may I ask does ANYONE support one's self without making a wage of some sort? In the past people bartered chickens and potatoes. Shall we go back to that?
> 
> How do you measure the value of a doctor vs. a movie star vs. a teacher vs. a sports figure. We clearly value sports figures and movie stars over scientists the others listed.
> 
> How do you pay your basic bills?


No one said anything about making money as being wrong, I just pointed out the manipulation it takes in order to make money. Those are 2 separate things, making money isn't universal it takes an idea and the idea on how to create profits by drugging up the masses on pharmaceuticals is one that I am not in favor of. When you mix medicine with commercialization and mass production the goal is to sell as much as possible at the expense of you the buyer who buys into what they market/sell.

How do I pay my basic bills ? With money how else, this is the system we live in what's your point ?



> If you have a job ... will you simply bypass taking a wage/salary? How do you wish to be paid so that you can take those earnings to purchase items you need to survive, support your family, have a place to live.


Ok you're mistaking what I say, people need to work and earn money and there are different ways of earning money. One way of earning massive amounts of funds is to commercialize mental disorders and push pedal pharmaceutical drugs onto the masses.



> It's true, somehow, people think they are entitled to having something for nothing.


What are you trying to insinuate do you even have a job ?



> I honestly have to ask --
> 1. What should we do if we have no monetary system -- we are no longer in a bartering era and we have global economy
> 2. Do you not feel guilty owning your computer for instance which was probably built in China? How much is its true value?
> 3. How do you pay for your food at a market?


You don't understand the way the countries economy works the monetary system is not operated by the people. The economy is manipulated by the ones that operate and control the monetary system. The Federal Reserve for instance is owned by the IMF (International Monetary Fund)/ World Bank etc NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. They are the group of international banking heads which manipulate the economy. The money is printed by the Federal Reserve and loaned to the U.S. at an interest rate by the IMF/WORLD BANK, the "IRS" then collects taxes from the taxpaying citizens (aka you and I) and the IRS isn't owned by the government either it's owned by the IMF. You go to your job collect your income pay your taxes to the I.R.S then they take the "citizens tax money" lol and pocket it.

No I don't feel guilty using a computer made in china, everything is mass produced in china look around your house that's why it's a super power and rising. You must feel pretty guilty knowing basically in your house was made in china.

How do I pay for my food at the market? I use these green pieces of paper that are called dollars with numerical values on them. People take that worthless piece of paper as barter for my food because it is backed by the Federal Reserve in itself it's worthless. People just believe it holds value and so we create it's meaning.



> And though many of us have a disability that may prevent us from working, there are many, many other people who work their asses off. And as noted, in say Canada, there may be a social medical system, however it is paid for by taking money from someone's paycheck. It is payed for for charging more tax on food and other goods. How else can the world operate in 2011 without money?


Like I said earlier it's not about how else the world can operate without money, it's about what people do to make a profit, people will do almost anything to make money. This includes killing people so what does that say about the power of money and how much trust you should put in others trying to make it.



> It would be nice to go back to Egypt and barter with spices or something, but even ancient civilizations had money.





> And regardless we are all expected to work as we are all contributing to our own survival as well as the survival of our species. If we all sat around and didn't grow food as the simplest example -- how would we eat


No we are all expected to work not for our own survival but for the survival of the military industrial complex because if you don't work they don't get their tax money. So you are programmed to believe that if you don't work you will not survive. The survival of our species ? The Goverment doesn't want you to survive and live long lives, they want you dead and gone there is something called overpopulation and it's a growing problem. Do you really think the powers that be want everyone to survive and thrive and watch the worlds population exponentially grow? NO only the elite will survive and the weak will die out. The elite being the ones that have adapted to their particular environment and in this environment the elite are the ones with wealth and power. Everyone else go eat your 2 dollar frozen chicken sandwich from mcdonalds and buy your microwave food from the grocery store. Then go home sit on your couch watch television and pretend you are living in the land of the free.



> Just basic questions.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

UniversalShape1 said:


> You don't understand the way the countries economy works the monetary system is not operated by the people.


Sure it is. Things are worth as much as people are willing to pay for them. Basic supply and demand. Okay, so the fed can control interest rates, but that's what can help the economy.



> The Federal Reserve for instance is owned by the IMF (International Monetary Fund)/ World Bank etc NOT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.


I don't understand that pov. The fed is part of the u.s. government, therefore it's owned by the citizens.



> No we are all expected to work not for our own survival but for the survival of the military industrial complex because if you don't work they don't get their tax money.





> The Goverment doesn't want you to survive and live long lives, they want you dead and gone there is something called overpopulation and it's a growing problem. Do you really think the powers that be want everyone to survive and thrive and watch the worlds population exponentially grow? NO only the elite will survive and the weak will die out.


So they want all this tax money, yet they don't want all these people around, so won't they lose money?

And you make it out as if only some elite few benefit from paying taxes. So you don't get any benefit from government workers such as police, fire, teachers, etc.?

don't follow.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2011)

> The U.S. is not a capitalist free enterprise country anymore it's moving towards socialism at an accelerated rate. "in other countries with socialized medicine" < what other countries the u.s. has socialized medicine


There's too much misunderstanding re: my post and too much disagreement I won't respond to, but I don't understand this statement.

We are in a huge battle right now, Republicans vs. Democrats, Conservative vs. Liberal ... over "entitlements" -- health care for everyone (Obama Care) that the liberals want and the conservatives DO NOT as they feel it violates the "free market system", Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. We are in such debt that Conservatives wish to slash these basics. That and slashing defense would indeed make a huge difference in the TRILLIONS of dollars of debt we owe other countries. In a sense we need to cut these things out, yet we are also in a terrible position where many have lost their jobs.

I don't understand the last part of the sentence ... Canada, the UK, many other Western countries offer "socialized medicine" -- that is more have equal access and it is taxed equally from the income of all individuals, through taxes on goods and services, etc. Here our health insurance is tied to our employment or you much purchase health insurance at very high rates. Also, if you don't have health insurance and have a pre-existing condition you may be turned down for coverage. On the other hand, for those who have good health insurance, they will receive probably better treatment IMMEDIATELY as in countries with socialized medicine. It is a trade off

Americans have always identified themselves as individualists, vs. collectivists. We believe anyone can be successful in this country through free enterprise, but it hasn't been working.

We have a great inequality of the very rich, and the very poor and are losing our middle class.

You don't understand the grammar, "for example, in countries with socialized medicine ... " is what I was writing.

Forgive me for not being clear. And I may come across as caustic, but I'm not. I just don't understand a statement that says we should get rid of money. I'm curious as how the world would operate. Then you clarified some of your points.

There are so many reasons that are so complicated for why we all have difficulty obtaining health care.


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