# Into the dark; into the light



## Guest (Mar 16, 2011)

There's a strange dichotomy that I've often found confusing.

Many therapys I threw away as flaky and insubstantial.

Try telling me to love myself when im walking in a hellish nightmare when I'm fully awake.

None of these could touch me because its like a telephone ringing in a blitz.

I suffered from stress disorder, so thoughts were totally impotent against the massive eruptions of pure terror.

Now Ive spent a year and a half clearing heavey trauma.

I reached a plato, where I was less disturbed, but empty with dismay and hopelessness.

Then I read about the mind, and that it runs on automatic programmes.

The subconcious mind never forgets anything, but if you have a self-destructive programme running, the only way to counter it is with its equal and opposite programme.

yes, hope defeats despair.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2011)

Phantasm said:


> There's a strange dichotomy that I've often found confusing.
> 
> Many therapys I threw away as flaky and insubstantial.
> 
> ...


I was being too enigmatic.

The question is, how much delving into the dark with exposure etc,

Vs. rebuilding: countering self-destructive negative thought-processes


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2011)

Phantasm said:


> I was being too enigmatic.
> 
> The question is, how much delving into the dark with exposure etc,
> 
> Vs. rebuilding: countering self-destructive negative thought-processes


Sorry if Ive been too obtuce.

I want to know what others think on this matter, if anyone can get what im saying...!


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Are you saying something to the effect of "should we accept the darkness and not fear it, or try to replace it with light?"


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Are you saying something to the effect of "should we accept the darkness and not fear it, or try to replace it with light?"


I was trying to say.....

Delve into pain to habituate,

Or go heal your inner child.

?


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2011)

Phantasm said:


> I was trying to say.....
> 
> Delve into pain to habituate,
> 
> ...


Yes, Surf, sorry, that is my Q.

Been reading the Dhammapada again

"Free yourself from pleasure and pain.
For in craving pleasure and nursing pain
There is only sorrow."

This struck me. Is there a point where nursing pain only perpetuates it?

Yes, certainly heavy pain that is overwhelming (trauma) must be processed before you can move forward, (the dark), but then old programmes must be overwritten (the light)?

So called "positive psychology", with all its dubious new age baggage, or just self hypnosis, trance work, meditation and active visualisation, even (yes I know) affirmations, were all things that were too lightweight for me, given my mental disturbance and extreme stress at the time.

But after a year and a half of self-taught EMDR, I cleared the mental junk-yard of the major wrecks, but was left empty and sad. I randomly listened to a hypnosis cd, which uses positive visualisation, and was surprised that I felt better.

My mind was empty and sad because sadness is all Ive ever known, so my mind was on default and needed new programmes.

(The subconcious is emotional and very literal, and if you tell yourself something long enough it becomes true for you.)

This is a point that interests me.

Processing/exposure

and reprogramming

An interesting dichotomy.

I welcome any thoughts on this matter.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I know where the answer lays...


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I know where the answer lays...


Do tell, surf, I would like to know your opinion.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Phantasm said:


> Do tell, surf, I would like to know your opinion.


If I tell you, you must be open to my idea.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> If I tell you, you must be open to my idea.


surf, we are friends and Ill be open to your ideas. If you don't wish to post publicly then pm me.
I'll either accept or reject your ideas. Im a big boy


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)




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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

i am currently reading an introduction to cbt.

Ide always dismissed this for reasons explained above.

it was too weak for me at the time.

But this is also a good point.
Just because you've overlooked a technique because it wasnt useful at the time, doesnt meen it cant be useful at some stage.

Gather as many techniques and as much knowledge as you can from as many sources.
I've gleaned some good nuggets from some terrible books. You cannot read too many books on a subject to get a good overall appraisal.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Im of the opinion that if you let go of all the crap inside of you then your natural self will shine through then you wont need to add anything to make yourself better because you are fine as you are. Although things like cbt can be alright if they are about letting go of unproductive thoughts and giving you more options, but a lot of the other stuff like affirmations and hypnosis and things like that I don't really believe in.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Phantasm said:


> I was trying to say.....
> 
> Delve into pain to habituate,
> 
> ...


Maybe this is the same thing


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2011)

Pablo said:


> Im of the opinion that if you let go of all the crap inside of you then your natural self will shine through then you wont need to add anything to make yourself better because you are fine as you are. Although things like cbt can be alright if they are about letting go of unproductive thoughts and giving you more options, but a lot of the other stuff like affirmations and hypnosis and things like that I don't really believe in.


That's fair enough pablo, i get what your saying. But I am an unnatural being; meening ive gone into my head and built a castle there.
You sound like a more natural human, but I have many stones to break before I can reach you and become something like a human. I must use all the tools I can find until i realise i never needed any. 
Im starting to understand meditation (what it is) and it's getting easier.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2011)

Pablo said:


> Im of the opinion that if you let go of all the crap inside of you then your natural self will shine through then you wont need to add anything to make yourself better because you are fine as you are. Although things like cbt can be alright if they are about letting go of unproductive thoughts and giving you more options, but a lot of the other stuff like affirmations and hypnosis and things like that I don't really believe in.


I think it IS a process of stripping away all the lies and baggage we were taught, and shedding everything else we might of picked up along the way.

A hypnotic state can magnify corrections.

Postitive affirmations,(which are not my thing in the usual sence), are the best tool I know for flushing out negative self-blocking beliefs.

ie, give yourself a compliment. Feel if you balk at it. There you go.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2011)

Phantasm said:


> I think it IS a process of stripping away all the lies and baggage we were taught, and shedding everything else we might of picked up along the way.
> 
> A hypnotic state can magnify corrections.
> 
> ...


Im still reading the CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) manual.

After a year and a half of self-taught EMDR (eye movement desentisisation and reprocessing) I feel this is useful. EMDR is, I think, just a dynamic way of engaging or distracting the concious mind in order to process deeper feelings/cognitions.
Isnt this ultimately what all therapy is?

But in all this time I havnt gone out much, and CBTs behavoural experiments (BEs), have prompted me to start doing exposures again. But not like the forced, brutal exposures of before when I was sufferring from stress disorder, but logical, clear exposures testing A and B.
I've done two already:
Up on the hill where theres nothing but sky and horizon.
By the big lake where there's nothing but birds and wind.
Neither I nor reality dissipated. I didnt dissolve in a scream. Yes I'm crazy.

I'm interested in the Socratic method of getting to beliefs.

Socrates, I think, once said, "The only true knowledge is to know that you know nothing"
Which is akin to Jesus's, "Be as children", in a sence of open acceptance and wonderment.

"The Genie Within" I found interesting, a laymans guide to the subconcious.

I'm starting to wake up.


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