# The Blasphemy Challenge



## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

I debated whether posting this on here or not just because I don't want to be responsible for someone seeing it and going, "Wow. What a great idea" and then doing it...and in fact, I think this has been going on for awhile, so if it's already been posted, then please just look the other way.






Basically, two brainless twits decided they'd impress all the atheist girls out there by publicly denying the Holy Spirit which, according to the bible, is the only thing certain to condemn you to hell for eternity.

Matthew 12: 31-32

_"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" _

Mark 3: 22-30

_"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' ?'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'"_

The gist of it is that if you deny the holy spirit, you'll go to hell forever. So, people are going on Youtube, and making videos of themselves denying the holy spirit, thus flexing their atheistic muscles and proving to the world just how cool they are.

Now, I'm a spiritual person. Not avidly religious, but I do believe in God. And while I'm fairly doubtful that God would condemn someone to eternal darkness because they made a Youtube video, I really have to wonder just what the hell these people are trying to prove. I mean...I get it...they're atheists and proud of it. But I mean, even if I was an atheist, I would never gamble with my soul just to post something on Youtube. I mean, the risk/reward thing here is just too out of whack. It reminds me of Homer Simpson selling his soul for a donut. It just doesn't make sense. Because what if there is some truth to it?

Anyway, I know someone like Martin will see this and be tempted to make his own video...but I beg that you don't. I really do. It's just so stupid I don't even know where to start. I can understand if like, denying the Holy Spirit will somehow save someone's life or something like that...then, for an atheist, it can be somewhat worth it because they don't really believe that they're going to hell anyway. But why do it for nothing?

Anyway...what do all y'all think of this?

s.


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## Guest (May 19, 2007)

Just as you have your Christian preaching his/her believe. You now have your atheists finally able to ?express? their own believe: That the Holy Spirit doesn?t exist. I myself deny the Holy Spirit existence. Not because ?I?m flexing my ego/atheistic muscles? but I wish to address my own belief and that I do not fear this ?so called? out come of denying the Holy Spirit (Being banished to hell). And to prove I disbelieve any of it I will state again ?I deny the Holy Spirit existence? and I deny I will go to hell.

People are more then welcome to believe in the god/s which has forsaken them. ?it? forsake them because it did not create it?s self. Humans created all the known ?gods?. And so I watch as they believe in their fairy tales.

Beg any one?s pardon if I have upset them.


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## Levi (Dec 28, 2005)

sebastian said:


> Now, I'm a spiritual person. Not avidly religious, but I do believe in God. And while I'm fairly doubtful that God would condemn someone to eternal darkness because they made a Youtube video, I really have to wonder just what the hell these people are trying to prove. I mean...I get it...they're atheists and proud of it. But I mean, even if I was an atheist, I would never gamble with my soul just to post something on Youtube. I mean, the risk/reward thing here is just too out of whack. It reminds me of Homer Simpson selling his soul for a donut. It just doesn't make sense. Because what if there is some truth to it?


Isnt that the whole point of atheists. They dont believe there is some truth to it/God/going to hell etc. That is why they dont fear. If you dont believe in God, you dont worry about it.

And this is what I, as an atheist, dont get about God:


> that God would condemn someone to eternal darkness because they made a Youtube video


If God had that potential, 'he' is not God, but the Devil.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Its a bit like saying "Bloody Mary" 3 times in the mirror - people do it cause they are scared yet want to prove otherwise.

And I think Levi is right, if you really didn't believe in god, you wouldn't be afraid of god and you wouldn't have anything to prove.


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Yes, I mean, I can understand it from the atheistic perspective. But well, I dunno...it just seems irretrievably stupid to me is all. It would be like someone approaching me in a bar and saying, "Hey, I'll tell you what...I'm a supernatural being, and I'll make you a bet. I don't have the power to change physical laws so you don't have to worry about all that...but I would like to suggest that there are influences in the universe that can propogate faster than the speed of light. Oh, and by the way...if I win the bet I get your eternal soul...if you win the bet, you get a penny."

Now, given even 1,000:1 odds, I'd still gamble on the side of relativity...but I sure as hell wouldn't do it for nothing. Or perhaps these individuals are just so unfathomably wise that they can sift through all this corporeal static to such an astounding degree that they're able to isolate that which constitutes truth.

I just think it's silly. People are so willing to piss away that which is so important just because of a kind of video game expedience that they now relate to because they were raised in such an age. A lot of these nouveau atheists remind of spoiled children who, if things aren't going 100 percent for them in life...they just up and say, "Oh! That's it! I don't believe anymore. There is no God. Now I can be as mopey as I want."

It always amazes me when people sum up religious thinking in one swoop, and reduce it to linear models of what they believe a religious experience should be like.

And by the way, Darren, I almost explicitly asked no one to do that kind of Holy Spirit denying in this thread. Try to show a little respect for other people.

And, feel free to say whatever you want in this thread but seriously...can you not use this as a platform to relinquish your eternal soul. I know that sounds silly, but seriously...can you just not do that here.

s.


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## Guest (May 20, 2007)

> And by the way, Darren, I almost explicitly asked no one to do that kind of Holy Spirit denying in this thread. Try to show a little respect for other people.


So if we?re not afraid of the out come of denying the Holy Spirit, we?re stupid? Respect works both ways. Have some respect for people whom chose not to ?believe? just because of the pathetic ?fear? which is laid on them (Going to hell).

?Relinquish your eternal soul? And you say I?m stupid? *Rubs chin*.

People with your believes sent my mother crazy when I was 10, this affected me very very badly? So I take it very personality.

Come back when you have some ?proof? to "this" you believe in.










1.	Christianity: 2.1 billion
2.	Islam: 1.3 billion
3.	Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
4.	Hinduism: 900 million
5.	Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
6.	Buddhism: 376 million
7.	primal-indigenous: 300 million
8.	African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
9.	Sikhism: 23 million
10.	Juche: 19 million
11.	Spiritism: 15 million
12.	Judaism: 14 million
13.	Baha'i: 7 million
14.	Jainism: 4.2 million
15.	Shinto: 4 million
16.	Cao Dai: 4 million
17.	Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
18.	Tenrikyo: 2 million
19.	Neo-Paganism: 1 million
20.	Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
21.	Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
22.	Scientology: 500 thousand

Hummm? choices? choices... If I choose "wrongly" will I go to hell?

What of the retards whom don?t have the brain power to choose? I take it they will go to heaven even if them make mistakes because ?they didn?t know better??

Roman Catholic sex abuse cases - 4% of all priests.


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## Levi (Dec 28, 2005)

Darren said:


> > And by the way, Darren, I almost explicitly asked no one to do that kind of Holy Spirit denying in this thread. Try to show a little respect for other people.
> 
> 
> So if we?re not afraid of the out come of denying the Holy Spirit, we?re stupid? Respect works both ways. Have some respect for people whom chose not to ?believe? just because of the pathetic ?fear? which is laid on them (Going to hell).


Darren I will have to agree with you. First, that respect is a two way street (Sebastian!) and second it is a form of emotional blackmail to tell people that denying the existence of the Holy Spirit leads to people being 'unforgiven forever' or 'going to hell'. And who on earth would want to give their faith and soul to this?

Those video's that are made and the people participating in it, only do that to prove the Holy Spirit is a hoax and that they dont like to be blackmailed. I can only say, that is healthy thinking.

I also didnt see anyone gamble with their soul? I think that stuff was meant in irony (see http://www.blasphemychallenge.com).


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Darren, you're missing the point here. I started this thread specifically mentioning that I would hope people wouldn't use it to start "denying the Holy Spirit", and then you went ahead and did so. Whatever one's beliefs, that's just rude. It's something that I obviously do believe to some extent and had expressly mentioned that I would rather people not do it. It's like me starting a thread on Star Wars and saying, "I haven't seen this movie yet so don't spoil anything in it for me" and then you coming on and saying, "Hey, that's whacked that Darth is Luke's father".

I can totally appreciate the atheist point of view, by the way. Why, some of my best friends are atheists. I did come off as a little preachy though. You're right...respect does go both ways. And I should have chose my words more carefully. It's just that to someone who does believe, these videos are like the equivalent of that cult that killed themselves when a comet went by certain that they'd be lifted up into heaven by UFOs or whatever. It just seems pointlessly destructive.



> ?Relinquish your eternal soul? And you say I?m stupid? *Rubs chin*.


See...that's not nice. I never said you were stupid. I just thought the whole "making a video and putting it on Youtube to prove that you don't believe in something" was stupid. And it doesn't make someone "stupid" because they believe in human beings having souls. I could just as easily attack your beliefs if I was so inclined but I hate being drawn into theological debates for the very reason that it's incredibly easy to debate the atheistic side of things, but it requires an immense amount of effort to debate the theological side of things. And in the end, the atheist is never convinced anyway so it would be a totally futile endeavour.



> Come back when you have some ?proof? to "this" you believe in.


Quite obviously, there is no empirical proof of the existence of God. That's why it's called Faith. But bottom line is that I do respect the atheistic point of view, and I apologize for coming off as "higher-than-thou" in the original posting, but please don't use this thread as a launching pad to eternal damnation. That's all I ask.

That'd be swell. Thanks.

s.


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Levi said:


> Darren I will have to agree with you. First, that respect is a two way street (Sebastian!)


*sniff* *sob* I'm sorry, all right? 



Levi said:


> and second it is a form of emotional blackmail to tell people that denying the existence of the Holy Spirit leads to people being 'unforgiven forever' or 'going to hell'. And who on earth would want to give their faith and soul to this?


If I were one to be drawn into theological debates, I would add here that it's quite irrelevant what we humans would ascribe to such a form of thinking. Yes, if this were some King doing this on Earth, in today's society, we could say, "Hey, that's emotional blackmail, and it isn't fair. Screw you, your highness." But since it's an all-powerful God we're talking about, I'm not sure such labels would work to make Him rethink His philosophy. And, if I were to get all dogmatic here, I would also add that we don't neccessarily "give" our soul to Him. He takes whatever the hell He wants. I mean "heck". Whatever the heck he wants.

Levi...hmm...listen...I am arguing this in a way, for the sake of arguing it. I don't necessarily believe all this stuff I'm pontificating. Like, I do believe in God, but that belief is so complex that it can't be boiled down to a "Yes, I definitely think people will loose their souls if they do this and they'll be fine if they do that", etc, etc. I'm a smart guy. I'm not oblivious as to how such things sound to a rational individual. But while I do believe in God, I don't make any claims on what, specifically, that God is. But just to cover all the bases, I don't like to go sabre-rattling to any supernatural entity. You can call it cowardice if you like, but I like to think of it as cautionary.

Anyway, hope we're all cool now.

s.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Levi said:


> Those video's that are made and the people participating in it, only do that to prove the Holy Spirit is a hoax


People are entitled to say what they think about Spirit but it doesn't get rid of it as a phenomena experienced by millions of people around the world.

I'm not defending Christ's teaching because I don't understand it. It probably doesn't mean the same as we think anyway...

As for Catholic Priests....I don't know what that has to do with this, really. Judge Christ by his words, not his followers. Judge God by your soul inclination...I know I sound like over-religious or something. In fact I'm probably New Age...I don't buy into a lot of the crap people write, but some of it.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

What is the holy spirit?

Why does it matter if other people go to hell?

I think those guys on youtube are doing themselves a huge favour by choosing not to live their lives in fear and what is more holy and religious than living a life more free and without guilt and fear being true to their own inner reasoning.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

I've been wanting to add to this thread but don't know what to make of the scripture. Is it true, is it not?


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Overall I think the whole thing is stupid, to be quite honest. Its one thing to not believe in the Holy Spirit, its another to go out of your way to piss people off by putting it on the internet. Really, if you don't have a problem with something, you won't put any energy into it.

You wouldn't make a video and put it on Youtube. But by the same token, you wouldn't make a post about it on a forum


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

CECIL said:


> You wouldn't make a video and put it on Youtube. But by the same token, you wouldn't make a post about it on a forum


Touche.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

CECIL said:


> Overall I think the whole thing is stupid, to be quite honest. Its one thing to not believe in the Holy Spirit, its another to go out of your way to piss people off by putting it on the internet. Really, if you don't have a problem with something, you won't put any energy into it.


Well if those guys on youtube think that such beliefs in the holy spirit do harm to peoples lives by making them live in fear then it is a positive progressive act to question such beliefs by denouncing them publicly. To be honest though it doesnt make much difference to Christianity as it has been open to criticism for a long time so it is used to it, but it would be a good thing if people started to do this sort of thing with other less tolerant religions like Islam.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Of course the problem is that you can't actually test their idea until they die, and after they die they can't come back and tell us all about it, hehe.

I'm not sure about Islam being less tolerant (keeping in mind what we see in the media isn't a true picture of what Islam is about), but I definately think its a good idea to constantly question your beliefs.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

What is the Holy Spirit?

This is bound to stir debate but I believe that the Kundalini is one and the same as the Holy Spirit. As it happens I'm not the only one who believes this...it's quite a popular belief amongst New Agists and at the core of Hindu philosophy:

God the Father= Brahman
God the Mother= Kundalini

These connect via the spine....and the higher self develops as a result of this. Apparently. Now...if you'll excuse me I really don't want to get dragged into the debate. I thought it was important to post it just to proclaim my belief of what the Holy Spirit is...for those who may also be this way inclined. It is a real experience, IMHO.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

As far as I'm concerned Rozanne, all these words are talking about the same thing. Each different belief system has their own set of language, but its all a metaphor for the same thing.

So I think you are right.

The direct experience of the Holy Spirit = the divine = universal love energy = kundalini = whatever else you want to call it 

Perhaps religious types would get offended, but really it doesn't bother me what people believe. If the underlying experience is still meaningful, that's all that matters.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Of course...I'm hardly saying that Christian are lacking something. The Bible's my book of choice at the moment...for as long as I can filter it! St. Paul. grr. Still Roman's is pretty cool...it has a lot about the kundalini in it!

IMHO 8)


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Hehe nice work


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