# DXM leads to DP?



## ConquerYourFear (Mar 19, 2012)

First off, a little intro. I stupidly ingested 350mg of DXM HBR 2.5 weeks ago. Before that I had been doing 20mg of Ritalin daily for 6 months (I had a prescription). Since then I believe my vision has been altered, as things seem to a bit more blurry when I move my head, and I also feel random small bouts of dizzyness. It's possible that the vision alteration is all in my head and that it's always been like that but I just started noticing it after the DXM trip (it was very traumatic and I spent a long time after constantly checking my vision). The visual change, whether real or not, has contributed to DP. I had DP very strongly the first few days after I took the DXM, but I managed to fight it off and return to normal by convincing myself that my vision would correct itself soon.

It's been 2.5 weeks and I'm not sure if my vision has gotten any better. This has been kind of a shock to me and unfortunately it re-introduced my DP.

Anyway, so I read this article on there being a correlation between brain abnormality and depersonalizationdisorder:
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=157&page=1782&journalID=13

My question is, does this article imply that depersonalization will be present for as long as the brain abnormality is present? Also, does that mean that it is impossible for one to get over depersonalization disorder as long as their brain is abnormal? I guess that's somewhat similar to the idea of curing depression. I know that there is a chemical imbalance in the brain with those who are depressed, yet they can rectify the imbalance by overcoming depression through therapy/time. Does that mean that depersonalization can similarly be overcome through therapy/time despite the brain abnormality? As in, can you rectify the brain abnormality by overcoming the depersonalization?

I ask about brain injury because of the DXM. That was my second time ever taking it (I took it 4-5 days before, about 50-100mg extracted). I have a theory that the 6 months of Ritalin use got me close to Seratonin syndrome, and that the DXM was what finally pushed it over the edge. I don't know though. For what it's worth, I can fight off my DP for a bit, but I find myself constantly asking whether I still feel DP'd which leads to it coming back. Anyway, excuse my rambling. Answers/replies are greatly appreciated!


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

a functional correlation suggests that dp is related to the metabolic abnormalities noted by the PET scans. As the saying goes, correlation does not necessarily imply causation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation). But, correlation is usually a necessary prerequisite for making the case for cause and effect. I don't believe this study implies any structual damage to the brain, but I suppose the computer is damaged if the software has been corrupted.
www.erowid.com is a database of anecdotal drug experiences. I do believe DXM is noted for causing symptoms described as "loss of visual motion".
You might search erowid for stories from individuals who have had similar symptoms/experiences with DXM.
The temporal lobe is very important in processing sensory data and assigning emotional context to that information. Alteration of processes in the temporal lobe is how recreational drugs work. For most, the processes return to normal when the drug leaves the body.
My pet theory is that the brain is adaptive, and the adaptation is relative to the amplitude of the emotional/sensory experience.
But the brain is also designed to adapt to external stimulus, and not internal events such as those caused by infusing dummy transmitters into your temporal lobe. In other words, bad trips confuse and bend your mind.
To try to answer your question, It would seem logical that the DP would be in effect as long as the PET scans are abnormal.
If it is possible to reprogram the affected areas of the brain, I don't think anyone has a clue as to how to do it.
I lost my emotions and became dp'd following a cannabis induced temporal lobe seizure. I went through the motions of life using the cognitive side of my brain, basically working from memory. I did the things I used to enjoy - not because I enjoyed them so much as I remembered having enjoyed them. Over a period of time, I recovered some positive emotions. My PET scan would probably still be abnormal, just not as abnormal as it once was. So I guess my recommendation is to do it, by doing it.


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## ConquerYourFear (Mar 19, 2012)

That response freaks me out a little - I guess I was hoping for someone to say "no, you can overcome it no matter what!" I don't like to think that it could be there for as long as there is damage (I'm not even sure if I have damage). But you know what, I do feel periods of being normal. It's only when I become anxious that I feel DP'd. Anyway, the brain is amazingly adept at recovering from damage.


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## ConquerYourFear (Mar 19, 2012)

OK, so I know that correlation doesn't imply causation (my econ teacher beat that phrase into my head). But is it possible that this is a chicken-or-egg kind of thing? As in, DP can bring about the visible changes in brain activity (as opposed to the brain activity causing DP)? I ask because I think depression changes activity in the brain, yet people are able to fight their way out of serious depression

Regardless, I know that I am capable of defeating the DP, as I do feel periods of being normal - it's my natural tendency towards anxiety and paranoia that sometimes pulls me back in.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

Semantics, maybe...but the chicken and egg is not a question of correlation, but of causation. Does the chicken cause the egg, or does the egg cause the chicken. British scientists claim to have answered that question: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38238685/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/which-came-first-chicken-or-egg/
Correlation suggests that DP and observed PET brain abnormalities are interrelated/interdependent. They co-exist. They don't suggest that one causes the other, but I think it is fair to assume that the brain processes were altered in a way that directly, or indirectly resulted in symptoms of DP.
I say indirectly, because one does not have to experience DP as part of a "bad trip", to have DP as a resulting chronic symptom. I read somewhere that DP is the 3rd most prevalent psychological complaint, following depression and anxiety. You can get DP'd from Traumatic Brain Injury. We have people here who have been DP'd by other means than recreational drugs.
The body does not always respond to trauma, in a way that is in the best interest of the survival of the individual. Sometimes, the body's response is detrimental to the individual. For example, a piece of plaque can detach from a coronary artery. The body's response is to clot the wall of the artery, which can cause fatal coronary thrombosis (heart attack). In general, the body's response to clotting wounds is beneficial to the survival "of the species", rather than the individual. 
So, it may be the brain's own reaction to the introduction of foreign chemicals (recreational drugs); results in the process abnormalities noted by the PET scans - which correlate to the symptoms of DP.
As in the previous example, it was not the plaque detachment that caused the heart attack, but rather the body's response to the detachment.
So I think that DP and the PET abnormalities coexist and are related, but they were both caused by some other process.
It is not a question of alleviating DP or the PET abnormalities. Theoretically, they both could be resolved if the underlying cause could be reversed.
This is just my opinion, and it carries no more weight than your own.


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## ConquerYourFear (Mar 19, 2012)

Hi all, I noticed that this is one of the top Google results for "DXM depersonalization" so I thought I would give an update.

About 3 months after I made this post, I got sick and tired of the constant anxiety and depersonalization/derealization. I noticed that I was doing just as well in school as I did before this experience, so I figured what the hell, I can live with this. My acceptance of my "condition" resulted in much less stress and anxiety. About 6-9 months after the original post, I was more or less back to normal. As of now, I am completely and 100% fine and normal and have been as such for several years. I've since completed college, made tons of awesome friends, dated some cool people and landed the job in the software industry that I wanted. I have also not touched a single drug since then except for alcohol and weed.

I still don't know if the experiences I had were actually neurological or if they were just a symptom of my anxiety (though I strongly lean towards the latter). Anyway, it doesn't matter anymore.

If you are suffering from DP/DR, I'd first accept it. This allows you to not dwell on it and stress out from it as much. Have faith that it will go away, and it will.


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