# Drugs, Supplements, Neurotransmitters, Co-Morbidity etc.



## nayashi (Sep 4, 2004)

Hi there. I'm trying to compile a list of things that work for DP, things that exacerbate DP, and things that have no effect on DP. The more I research Depersonalization, the more complicated it gets. We're all unique little snowflakes and everyone's brain chemistry is different. Some people have low Dopamine, others low Serotonin, etc. What a complex symptom/disorder this is :blink:

For the past few days I have been doing some research and I want to get your personal opinions and experiences, so here's a list of things that I'm curious about, and what I've discovered through research. Do you agree with these statements? Do you disagree? Do you have a different take on them? What additions should I make to this?

*Drugs and Neurotransmitters (promising results marked with *)*

*SSRIs/Serotonin: *It seems that most people with DP say that excess serotonin worsens DP. If SSRIs don't worsen DP, it does absolutely nothing. This includes the supplement *5-HTP*. It is infrequently reported that SSRIs and 5-HTP may help DP.

*NDRIs/Dopamine: *Many theories suggest that DP is caused by a Dopamine deficiency. *Wellbutrin* is an NDRI, which some people report as beneficial, in others it can make symptoms worse. *L-Tyrosine* is a supplement that the body converts into Dopamine and Norepinephrine. *It should be noted, however, that drugs and supplements that work on GABA receptors may also block norepinephrine receptors. L-Tyrosine will typically raise energy levels and alertness because of the synthesis of norepinephrine, but if GABA is blocking the receptors you may only receive the benefits of the Dopamine and get "sleep attacks"*

**Tranquilizers/GABA receptors: *Helpful for anxiety. Medications include *Xanax*, *Klonopin*, and *Ativan*. Many people with DP have positive results on these medications due to a reduction in anxiety, therefor reducing anxiety-induced DP. *GABA* supplements and* L-Theanine* work on the GABA receptors in the brain. *These drugs/supplements may block norepinephrine receptors*

**Amphetamines and Stimulants: *Medications include ADD drugs, such as *Adderall*, *Ritalin*, and* Dextrine*. Although they can increase anxiety, many people with DP report positive results because these drugs help with focus, mental clarity, and motivation. Amphetamines also increase Dopamine, contributing to the Dopamine theory. *DMAE* is a supplement that has a mild amphetamine-like effect, and it seems that many people with DP report positive results with this supplement.

*Antipsychotics: *Antipsychotic medication includes *Zyprexa*, *Abilify*, and *Seroquel*. Most people report these are not at all helpful for DP, though they are often prescribed for dissociation. These drugs can have debilitating side-effects with little to no benefit for those suffering from DP.

*Anti-Opioids: *These may show promise since Drug-Induced DP is rather common, and even non-drug-induced DP may be triggered by Opioid receptors. One such drug is *N**altrexone*. (Thank you, Selig: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15876908) (Further research is needed).

*Anti-Convulsants: *Some Anti-Convulsants/anti-seizure medication work on GABA receptors, such as the drug *Gabapentin. *These may be beneficial for those with DP. *GABA *supplements and *L-Theanine *may be helpful on this path. "These drugs could reduce symptoms of anxiety by decreasing neuronal activation within fear circuits." (Thank you, Selig: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44309-anticonvulsants-and-anxietydepersonalization/ )

*Acetylcholine Receptors/Agonists: *Here is an interesting post on this topic: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26506-acetylcholine-boosters/

*NMDA Agonists: *Could be possibly beneficial, but there is not sufficient evidence for me to really add anything enlightening here, so I'll just leave you with this: http://books.google.com/books?id=YYA04km5NfQC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=neurochemistry+depersonalization&source=bl&ots=VeKPbcX0ef&sig=KCmw-1WNxS_H6xLMXxQ4jbTI5J0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Ns7MUt65FIHUkQeY54GYAw&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=neurochemistry%20depersonalization&f=false

*Other Drugs: *Helpfulness has been reported with: *Anafranil, Remeron, *and *Lamictal*, though many people also report these drugs have done nothing for DP, and in some cases has possibly made symptoms worse. (Further research is needed.)

*Co-Morbid Conditions:*

*Anxiety Disorders*

*PTSD*

*Mood Disorders*

*Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder*

*Schizotypal Disorder*

*Borderline Personality Disorder*

*Contradictions within Co-Morbidity:*

*Schizotypal Disorder: *Sometimes known as "schizophrenia lite," Depersonalization is a very common symptom of Schizotypal disorder. However, Schizophrenia is theorized to be caused to some degree of high dopamine levels, with dopamine being a cause of hallucinations and delusions. This may contradict the low-dopamine theory of DP, or the high-dopamine theory of schizophrenia. Serotonin is thought to be in low levels in schizophrenia and SSRIs have shown promise, though may worsen symptoms of DP.

*Borderline PD/Complex PTSD: *Dopamine is also theorized to be high in these individuals because of inability to regulate emotions and impulsive behavior, although DP is a common symptom of these conditions.

(*My personal experience*: Xanax, Klonopin, GABA, L-Theanine = GOOD. Antipsychotics = BAD. Dextrine = Good at first, bad after long term use. DMAE = Good on as-needed basis for focus, mental clarity, and motivation. L-Tyrosine = ?????? I'll keep you updated.)

That's what I have so far. Edits are sure to follow. I appreciate any input!


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## nayashi (Sep 4, 2004)

Selig said:


> My kind of thread!
> 
> Drugs that work on the opioid receptors such as naltrexone may be worth mentioning.
> 
> Also, anti-convulsants have shown promise.


Thanks for the input! Any chance you have a link or two about these drugs? I know anti-convulsants also work on GABA receptors, such as Gabapentin, which makes sense they would work. I came across a couple of fleeting mentions about Anti-Opioids such as Naltrexone, but nothing terribly in-depth. For now, I'll add them in with a note about more research needed.


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## nabber (Feb 13, 2009)

sorry I didn't mean to hijack/ruin your thread. It's a very good one, I was just giving my history with the meds you have listed


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Opioid antagonists do indeed seem to be beneficial: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11448093
It is thought to be antagonism of the Kappa Opioid Receptor that causes these improvements.
JDTic is a selective KOR antagonist, which may be worth keeping an eye out for.

As for NMDA agonism; keep an eye out for NRX-1074 I'd say. Sarcosine and Glycine don't seem to be very potent. These two and D-serine are ligands at the glycine site of the NMDAR, whereas D-Aspartic Acid agonizes the NMDA site itself. D-Cycloserine is also an NMDA agonist at low doses.

As for procholinergics; I'd say keep an eye out for a7nAChR agonists such as GTS-21, TC-5619 and EVP-6124.
Coluracetam is a decent cholinomimetic that's already available, if you want to go down that road.

As for stimulants; you forgot the eugeroic Modafinil which has been reported to help. Adrafinil (not to be mistaken with "Anafrinil" a.k.a. Clomipramine) is a prodrug to Modafinil, and Armodafinil is the pure right enantiomer of Modafinil. Adrafrinil is available without a prescription, but may be harmful on the liver.

As for raising dopamine; another method is to use an MAO-B specific inhibitor such as Selegiline or Rasagiline. Selegiline, however, has amphetamine and methamphetamine metabolites IIRC, so Rasagiline is preferable. These are only MAO-B specific up to a certain dose; so definitely discuss with your doctor etc.


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## MiketheAlien (Nov 7, 2013)

Thanks so much for all the information in this thread! I am thinking about purchasing L-Theanine from the locoal Supplement and Vitamin store, Does anyone have any more information about this product? I have looked at the wikipedia page but I just want to make sure it is safe and wont do anything to worsen my mental state. Thanks again, cheers ^_^


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## nayashi (Sep 4, 2004)

Vanmichael said:


> Thanks so much for all the information in this thread! I am thinking about purchasing L-Theanine from the locoal Supplement and Vitamin store, Does anyone have any more information about this product? I have looked at the wikipedia page but I just want to make sure it is safe and wont do anything to worsen my mental state. Thanks again, cheers ^_^


I LOVE L-Theanine. Since I've been taking it (along with GABA), my psychologist has told me that there is a noticeable and positive change in me, like I'm more present. Even though it hasn't ridded me of the DP, I feel like I can access parts of my mind that I haven't been able to access in a long, long time. It has also noticeably decreased my level of social anxiety. I've only tried the Solgar brand, which I like, but it is a little pricier than others, however, I think it's worth it. Make sure you get the kind that is patented with "Suntheanine," as it supposedly absorbs better. I started out with 150 mg before bedtime, and after about three weeks I've bumped it up to 150 mg in the morning, 150 mg in the afternoon, and 150 mg before bed. I don't think I'm wiling to go over that dosage, just to be on the safe side. I think it's considered very likely safe with few, if any side effects besides possible drowsiness (does not have that effect on me). It's found in green tea in lower concentrations. If you have any serious concerns, I'd ask your doctor or a pharmacist. I have only had positive experiences with it.

From what I've read, it can increase dopamine slightly (not as strong as L-Tyrosine), helps with GABA absorption, and depending on different studies, it can either slightly raise or lower serotonin.


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## nayashi (Sep 4, 2004)

nabber said:


> sorry I didn't mean to hijack/ruin your thread. It's a very good one, I was just giving my history with the meds you have listed


!!!

You didn't hijack or ruin my thread!! I really want to collect as much information and personal experiences as possible with this thread, so I'm actually rather sad to see you deleted your original comment. I don't think I can do anyone's personal med story justice by editing the original entry, so I'm hoping that people will post as many of their opinions and experiences as they deem appropriate even though I may not be able to keep up. I think it's all very vital. Thank you for sharing; I really appreciate it!


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## nayashi (Sep 4, 2004)

odisa said:


> ....


Thanks for all of this excellent research! I'll have to comb through it in detail during the day. Mmmm...delicious information...


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Glad to help nayashi.

As for L-Theanine; you want to get the Suntheanine brand; other "L-theanines" have been known to be racemic (levo and dextrotheanine). At least make sure you get pure levo (L) theanine.
BTW.. L-Theanine is not a herb, albeit extracted from one.. Anyway; it's pretty safe up to high doses as well; I used to just empty a few capsules in my tea as sweetener. That said, it never did anything for me personally.


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## MiketheAlien (Nov 7, 2013)

nayashi said:


> I LOVE L-Theanine. Since I've been taking it (along with GABA), my psychologist has told me that there is a noticeable and positive change in me, like I'm more present. Even though it hasn't ridded me of the DP, I feel like I can access parts of my mind that I haven't been able to access in a long, long time. It has also noticeably decreased my level of social anxiety. I've only tried the Solgar brand, which I like, but it is a little pricier than others, however, I think it's worth it. Make sure you get the kind that is patented with "Suntheanine," as it supposedly absorbs better. I started out with 150 mg before bedtime, and after about three weeks I've bumped it up to 150 mg in the morning, 150 mg in the afternoon, and 150 mg before bed. I don't think I'm wiling to go over that dosage, just to be on the safe side. I think it's considered very likely safe with few, if any side effects besides possible drowsiness (does not have that effect on me). It's found in green tea in lower concentrations. If you have any serious concerns, I'd ask your doctor or a pharmacist. I have only had positive experiences with it.
> 
> From what I've read, it can increase dopamine slightly (not as strong as L-Tyrosine), helps with GABA absorption, and depending on different studies, it can either slightly raise or lower serotonin.


Awesome! Thank you so much for the insight!


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