# Anyone else felt enlightened before DP/DR kicked in ?



## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

Hey guys,

about 3 years ago i quitted my studies and went on to travel the world in the next 2 1/2 years. (Mainly NZ and Australia) During that time I worked a lot on finding out what my true passion, morals more like my truest self really was. I made huge improvements and got rid of my ego steo by step. At one point i was just pure positivity and love, my body was radiating optmimism and compassion. I was so calm, centered, peaceful but at the same time somewhat wise. Everything made sense and life felt like it was just flowing perfeclt, there was nothing to worry about. 
Other people where kind of drawn to me at this period and it felt like i could help them all a little by just very deeply and compassionatly listening to them. I always knew what to say or not to say. I felt so connected to myself and everyone around me. I understood everyone of them and why they did the things they did or say the things they said. It felt like because i was so in tune with my inner self, i was able to see deep into the soul of everyone else, i felt soooo connected to them. And everyone kind of sensed my positivity, people used to call me the Ghandi or Buddha of the hostel. I saw the potential and good in everyone and was communicating directly to that. I felt so connected to my Inner wisdom or the universal wisdom.

Also my senses were super strong. I was living just in the very moment. I could listen and follow more than one conversation a time, it felt like i was super aware of my surruondings, like i had a 360° radar of pure awareness. The feeling of my own body was so nice. I was able to squeaze every muscle if needed, but also release any tension by just feeling into it. It was like i really felt my body for the first time.

The world around me was so beautiful as well. I was so interested to learn new things every day. no matter if it was about nature or if i learned about or from others. It was like I was for teh first time really awake, my mind was so calm and crytsal clear, I understood erverything in an instant but on a a really deep level as well.

To summarize it, I felt like I was the best version of myself. It was amazing.

This sadly only lasted for a few weeks, and suddenly I had DP/DR. It was like i went from being in heaven to straight hell, like i went from full light to full darkness.

Looking back now makes me think if it was really enlightenment or if i was to some degree depersonalized my whole life before but wasn´t aware of that. Maybe during that time of "enlightenment" i just wasn´t depersonalized for the first time in years and years. Because i kind of think that the "enlightened state" i was in is our natural state as souls. That´s what living on earth and having the human experience should or at least could feel like.

So another question i keep coming back to atm is wether the whole DP/DR thing is just another step towards our natural state of just being who we are or to put it more simple: just being

Because the one thing that helps me most these days to deal with everything is to let it all just happen.. Feel like I´m not myself? Fine, who am i then lets´s observe and find out

I´m feeling like I´m not really present and somehow I´m afraid of everything and everyone? Fine let´s try to let it all happen, feel into the fear, be the fear

It´s so hard to describe with words.. It´s like I´m on the one hand surrendering to the whole DP/DR thing and thus not overthinking it and thus feeling more comortable with it, on the other hand it feels like I´m slowly letting my true self win the upper hand again and use me (my ego maybe?) as a puppet

A funny little experiment i came up with yetserday was to play some nice music, with the intention to dacne and then just let the dancing happen, just see what my body or I or whoever is controlling my body at the moment comes up with, iit made me feel comfortable, with just wathcing my body but not feeling attached to it, for the frist time.

Another thing that really helps me atm is to forget about all kind of memories of who i was or who i think i am. I was always afraid to never be myself again, but probably i won´t. This experience is way too life changing to be excatly the same anyways. Maybe it´s time for us to let our past self go and just look in this very now moment who we are right now, what do we enjoy right now, what do we feel right now. Breaking with all my old self images and believes i had about the world and people made me calmer again and somewhat a little bit more back in reality.

Curious if anyone felt/feels the same..


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

Also somewhere deep inside of me I have a really strong feeling/belief that I´m gonna be fine one day and will have learned a tremendous amount from this, this positivity kept me going through the really rough times and made me not hurt myself and not give up on myself.


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## RedSky (Jan 11, 2017)

Yes! this is exactly how I felt a couple months before my derealization set in, although my feeling of enlightenment was from shrooms. I have always been incredibly depressed especially the year before I took shrooms because of a lot of things but during this trip (was my first time) I saw myself for who I really was and I saw why I wasn't happy. It was a very intense experience but it was almost like I was meditating without trying, I could see how arrogant and thick headed I had been and I just decided to let it all go and not care so much. The whole trip was amazing and I felt truly alive for the first time in a while, and I felt like I had maybe opened up my third eye and my senses were all working better then they ever have. I was already an open minded person before this but it widen my horizons more and I just sort of changed, I remember feeling an actual shift and it was almost physical like "this is what people try to achieve in life, this is how people are meant to feel all the time" It was like an overload of happiness and it changed me.

For the next couple weeks I felt amazing and people even told me I seemed like a better/happier person, but then for whatever reason while I was smoking weed one day it happened, BOOM! derealization.

I don't know if it was because it was super strong or what but upon waking up the next day the "high" still lingered, it never went away and after awhile I became a mess and had the worst panic attacks/anxiety attacks of my life.

That was all about 10 years ago and while I have made tremendous progress since but I still can't seem to make the brain fog go away, its still there 24/7 and I feel like I have been robbed of my 20's. The past 2 years however I get these "Pockets" of clarity as I like to call them that last anywhere from 2-15 seconds where it seems my derealization is gone. I have been fighting this shit for far too long and maybe I am close to recovery and I keep trying new ways everyday to combat it and some stuff helps and others don't but I just wanna get back to feeling alive again.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

I've been through this before dp. We call it "the peak". I was 16 years old and smoking tons of weed and reading philosophy books at night and writing down learned insights. Over the course of about 5 months I was improving myself and gaining more and more self confidence. I talked to actually everybody in school, everyone laughed at my jokes. It culminated in July 2003 and I felt so high on life (but in a down to earth way) that the best weed didn't effect me since I was already feeling so good. My thoughts were clear, my senses were fine tuned and etc. I thought it would never fade away. Thought that I had found the meaning of being alive, how to live. Then a week later I had a breakdown and have been dp'd ever since.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Because i kind of think that the "enlightened state" i was in is our natural state as souls. That´s what living on earth and having the human experience should or at least could feel like.


The more I think about "enlightenment", there more I move closer to viewing it as a pathological state, just like depersonalization. Although it sounds highly pleasant, it is certainly no "natural" state. Evolution didn't design our brains to feel bliss all the time. Animals with "enlightenment" would die out quickly. Maybe depersonalization and "enlightenment" are somehow related in a similar way like depression and mania.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

TDX said:


> The more I think about "enlightenment", there more I move closer to viewing it as a pathological state, just like depersonalization. Although it sounds highly pleasant, it is certainly no "natural" state. Evolution didn't design our brains to feel bliss all the time. Animals with "enlightenment" would die out quickly. Maybe depersonalization and "enlightenment" are somehow related in a similar way like depression and mania.


Nah,

This Peak/Enlightenment before DP felt more Natural than anything I've ever been through.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

The Peak aside... I believe that the aim of self actualization is to be as Natural as possible.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)




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## Billy D.P. (Apr 12, 2016)

I had a very similar experience. I was traveling the South Pacific, mid 20s, not a care in the world, meeting the most incredible people from every walk of life, the happiest I'd ever been two times over. I remember sitting on the pier at sunset looking out over Milford Sound, the most beautiful place I've ever been, and thinking to myself I had finally "made it." I had gone through a DP episode once before that took a handful of years to overcome which then led to extreme anxiety and complex PTSD, so I was familiar with suffering by this time. But I felt like I was finally past all that, which is so ironic given two months later I was in the most depersonlized HPPD state imaginable, truly believing I was dreaming while I was awake and nearly checking into the E.R. because my condition was so bad.

In "Feeling Unreal" Simeon devotes quite a few pages to the idea that DP states often occur as a result of fluctuations in arousal. There's quite a few documented cases in literature and of course on this site that follow a very similar pattern, often involving drugs of course. It's interesting how so many people are at the apex of their lives when this happens though. I wonder if our brains were wired to either not respond well to intense chemical pleasures or if there's just a strong correlation to drugs which can induce euphoria and fright in extreme doses so closely together.


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## eddy1886 (Oct 11, 2012)

Enlightenment or too much Marijuana thats my question....

I felt enlightened many times whilst stoned out of my mind....Guess what it left me f****d up......

Our minds are not supposed to go to those "enlightened" places....We are meant to live in reality not in a self induced deluded paradise.....

No wonder our brains tuned out on us...We avoided reality way too much (Dissociated) and hence forgot how to get back there......


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## dpsucks (Sep 7, 2012)

TDX said:


> The more I think about "enlightenment", there more I move closer to viewing it as a pathological state, just like depersonalization. Although it sounds highly pleasant, it is certainly no "natural" state. Evolution didn't design our brains to feel bliss all the time. Animals with "enlightenment" would die out quickly. Maybe depersonalization and "enlightenment" are somehow related in a similar way like depression and mania.


 Thats exactly how I feel about these sorts of experiences. There's really no evidence that enlightenment, ego death, etc is really anything other than psychosis, dissociation or just your brain being messed up.

I never had any sort of "enlightenment" feelings until after I had developed dp/dr from synthetic drug usage (bad trip). If synthetic drugs can induce these feelings, what does that tell you.


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

First of all thank you guys for sharing your thoughts and experiences  it somehow made me happy and really excited to know that there are other people who experienced excatly the same. 
Do you guys feel like there is any connection between the peak of happiness we experienced and living with dp/dr ? I can´t put my finger on it but they must be interconnected somehow.



RedSky said:


> Yes! this is exactly how I felt a couple months before my derealization set in, although my feeling of enlightenment was from shrooms. I have always been incredibly depressed especially the year before I took shrooms because of a lot of things but during this trip (was my first time) I saw myself for who I really was and I saw why I wasn't happy. It was a very intense experience but it was almost like I was meditating without trying, I could see how arrogant and thick headed I had been and I just decided to let it all go and not care so much. The whole trip was amazing and I felt truly alive for the first time in a while, and I felt like I had maybe opened up my third eye and my senses were all working better then they ever have. I was already an open minded person before this but it widen my horizons more and I just sort of changed, I remember feeling an actual shift and it was almost physical like "this is what people try to achieve in life, this is how people are meant to feel all the time" It was like an overload of happiness and it changed me.
> 
> For the next couple weeks I felt amazing and people even told me I seemed like a better/happier person, but then for whatever reason while I was smoking weed one day it happened, BOOM! derealization.
> 
> ...


Hey man, really sad to hear how long you´ve been battling for. I guess you already tried that, but in cas you didn´t: what really helps me right now is to let go of my self images, let go of that happy person. Because I always wanted to go back to that, feel alive like i was then, i thought this is who i really am, that it´s my most natural self, like



ThoughtOnFire said:


> Nah,
> 
> This Peak/Enlightenment before DP felt more Natural than anything I've ever been through.


described here. But comparing how I am feeling or not feeling today to my former "enlightend" self always put my attention to what is wrong with me. I tried acting the same way as i was back then but it didn´t work. So instead of clinching to the past and the good memories i´ll try to focus on the now again. I mean people change over time, so right now I´m not the same person i was back then. DP/DR changed too much, but what i can do is completely surrender to the situation and find out who i am now. Not by controlling myself or judging myself, but by listening and just observing myself. 
Since I´m doing that I slowly feel like a person with character again..

Also since you´ve have years more experience living like that, i would be really interested in which ways of dealing with it you tried and which you feel like helped you the most  heads up buddy, there are people who finally got out of dp/dr and you´re gonna be one of them



ThoughtOnFire said:


> I've been through this before dp. We call it "the peak". I was 16 years old and smoking tons of weed and reading philosophy books at night and writing down learned insights. Over the course of about 5 months I was improving myself and gaining more and more self confidence. I talked to actually everybody in school, everyone laughed at my jokes. It culminated in July 2003 and I felt so high on life (but in a down to earth way) that the best weed didn't effect me since I was already feeling so good. My thoughts were clear, my senses were fine tuned and etc. I thought it would never fade away. Thought that I had found the meaning of being alive, how to live. Then a week later I had a breakdown and have been dp'd ever since.


Perfect description of how i felt back then, did you ever feel like that again ?



Billy D.P. said:


> I had a very similar experience. I was traveling the South Pacific, mid 20s, not a care in the world, meeting the most incredible people from every walk of life, the happiest I'd ever been two times over. I remember sitting on the pier at sunset looking out over Milford Sound, the most beautiful place I've ever been, and thinking to myself I had finally "made it." I had gone through a DP episode once before that took a handful of years to overcome which then led to extreme anxiety and complex PTSD, so I was familiar with suffering by this time. But I felt like I was finally past all that, which is so ironic given two months later I was in the most depersonlized HPPD state imaginable, truly believing I was dreaming while I was awake and nearly checking into the E.R. because my condition was so bad.
> 
> In "Feeling Unreal" Simeon devotes quite a few pages to the idea that DP states often occur as a result of fluctuations in arousal. There's quite a few documented cases in literature and of course on this site that follow a very similar pattern, often involving drugs of course. It's interesting how so many people are at the apex of their lives when this happens though. I wonder if our brains were wired to either not respond well to intense chemical pleasures or if there's just a strong correlation to drugs which can induce euphoria and fright in extreme doses so closely together.


Hmm the last point is very interesting, why does the extreme fright last so much longer than the euphoria ? 
A friend of mine suggested that all this light I experienced during the apex was too much for me to handle at that point, that it wwas too early, that i wasn´t prepared but with enough pratice like meditation, astral travels asf.. and maybe a teacher or guide one can handle all this really strong energy and not go into a shutdown mode afterwards. She used the metaphor that all this energy/light was like me being a light bulb and when it got too much i just snapped and that´s what dp/dr is roght now.

Also how old have you guys been when you felt this peak/apex of live/ enlightenment?



eddy1886 said:


> Enlightenment or too much Marijuana thats my question....
> 
> I felt enlightened many times whilst stoned out of my mind....Guess what it left me f****d up......
> 
> ...


Hmm interestingly i felt more real or to be even stronger, real for the first time when i was enlightened. And i was in this state when i wasn´t taking drugs as well, as ThoughtOnFire mentioned even weed wouldn´t effect me anymore, because i felt so good all the time, so there was no need to smoke anymore.



dpsucks said:


> Thats exactly how I feel about these sorts of experiences. There's really no evidence that enlightenment, ego death, etc is really anything other than psychosis, dissociation or just your brain being messed up.
> 
> I never had any sort of "enlightenment" feelings until after I had developed dp/dr from synthetic drug usage (bad trip). If synthetic drugs can induce these feelings, what does that tell you.


Hmm so you only had those moments after you took a synthetic drug ?


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

eddy1886 said:


> Enlightenment or too much Marijuana thats my question....
> 
> I felt enlightened many times whilst stoned out of my mind....Guess what it left me f****d up......
> 
> ...


Nah man,

I smoked weed for 2 years before I got this Peak and DP. I smoked nearly every day, multiple times. This was no marijuana high.



Arohanui said:


> First of all thank you guys for sharing your thoughts and experiences  it somehow made me happy and really excited to know that there are other people who experienced excatly the same.
> Do you guys feel like there is any connection between the peak of happiness we experienced and living with dp/dr ? I can´t put my finger on it but they must be interconnected somehow.


I liked your light bulb metaphor. My own metaphor is that we built our tower too high, and Reality destroyed it and the rubble is DP for us. And if you're familiar with Jungian Psychology, we must have tried to transcend our Shadow Archetype without looking at those Psyche Contents, and it somehow backfired when we reached for the Stars.



> Also since you´ve have years more experience living like that, i would be really interested in which ways of dealing with it you tried and which you feel like helped you the most  heads up buddy, there are people who finally got out of dp/dr and you´re gonna be one of them


The best things I've found are basic. Find the joy in the simple things of life, like a cup of coffee in the morning, taking your dog for a walk, small talk or even a deep conversation with a close friend, a certain nostalgic song, saying hi to a stranger, these kind of things. Other things that help is having a balance between comfort foods and eating well. For me that just means drinking a good amount of clean water daily.

One thing that I wonder about your experience of this is... are you constantly trying to find your way back? Not necessarily to the Peak, but out of DP? I.e. are you always seeking some kind of mental conclusion or insight to "snap you back to reality".

Meditation helps of course too. Acceptance is key in coping and moving towards recovery. Mindfulness will take one a long way.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Nice to read your story it is very interesting. I can relate to a lot of what you wrote.

A few weeks before my DP occurred I had come out of my religious upbringing and was beginning to see through a lot of the programming and conditioning I had been brought up in. For the first time I felt I was becoming my own self, my own person, with my own worldview, and thoughts about life. I felt better than I had ever felt in my life. I felt like I was becoming who I really am, without the pressure or influence of other people/religion/outside programming and conditioning. I felt very free mentally and at peace. I felt clearer. I was in college and I remember feeling more clear minded when writing papers, I had better rhythm when playing the guitar, I recall surfing better. I think that I just dropped all the baggage that I had been brought up in that had been weighing me down all my life, and accepted who I am, and felt free and at peace as a result. I became more of who I was because other peoples expectations of who they wanted me to be no longer mattered to me. I felt that I really connected with my true nature. For about 3 weeks I felt the happiest I had felt in my whole life.

Then seemingly out of nowhere the DP hit me. It came and went in waves for the first few months, then became chronic and has been chronic for over 10 years now. It's been hell, the complete opposite of the 'peak' experience prior. I feel that I have been continually trying to get back to who I was before this but no matter what effort I put forth I remain stuck in DP. It was like the carpet just fully got ripped up from under my feet. I've tried everything I can think of over the years but nothing has helped.

I have wondered if somehow the DP state was brought on by the realizations I had just prior to acquiring DP. However it really makes no sense. Why would I go from feeling like myself, happy, and clear headed to DP, extreme mental suffering, and brain fog? And still be stuck in a DPd state 10 years later. Makes no sense to me.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

It could be that we moved passed our lifetime conditioning without ever processing the content of the programming. Like sweeping dirt under the rug, it's still there, just moved aside. And then it may have backfired since we didn't deal with the psyche components, just momentarily had bypassed the old mind structure. And the strain could have been too much for our minds to bear and so...that broke our minds?


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

I had a very weird experience in 'the' panic attack on weed. It felt as though my sense of self had exploded into a massive infinite empty space... then there was a thought that said 'you don't deserve this'.. and I came back to my body contracted and panicking. Perhaps if I had something to label that experience prior to it happening I could have 'let go'.. but I had no idea what it was and it was very scary.

Interesting that red sky said they had a great experience on mushrooms. I watched a Paul Stamets podcast with Joe Rogan and he recommended psilocybin and lions mane. I tried the Lion's mane and am getting subtle positive results. So am going to be MICRODOSING magic mushrooms when I can get some. I know I will get an earful for it, but I've tried everything. And this seems plausible to reroute connections in my brain. I won't be tripping as that would be dangerous.. could work, could go horribly wrong. Either way, microdosing has been shown to help untreatable depression, ptsd etc

I don't know if because of trauma we are wired to freak the fuck out when we are relaxed or at peace.. it is like as soon as we let our guard down we are retraumatised. So there is always this untrusting, edgy, tension there. Every god damn second... who knows what any of it means


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I've had nothing but positive experiences with psilocybin. It's just been temporary for me though, I always return to the normal DP state after.


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

Good to know... even the 'bad trips' are often said to be insightful. Are you in the uk? Microdosing might be worth looking into.. just need to find some way to get hold of some.. it is around the season they fruit in the uk, but mixed reports on their availability


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

No I'm in the US. I remember seeing some cool mushroom grow kits online from the Netherlands, but they don't ship to the US.


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41608984

A study.. they were however given a substantial dose and this gave improved symptoms that were long lasting. Can't say I would agree with the large dose, but there were reports of the default mode network (DMN) becoming 'more stable'.. whatever that means. But the DMN is thought to be impaired in DPD, specifically the medial prefrontal cortex suppressing emotions.

Sorry hijacked the thread a bit... but kind of relevant as people have very spiritual/mystical experiences on shrooms... and people from the study claimed to be 'resest, rebooted, reborn'.. guna go hunting Monday


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Arohanui, what triggered your DP? And how long have you had it for?

Have you tried anything to recover or found anything that helps you?


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## RedSky (Jan 11, 2017)

Broken said:


> I had a very weird experience in 'the' panic attack on weed. It felt as though my sense of self had exploded into a massive infinite empty space... then there was a thought that said 'you don't deserve this'.. and I came back to my body contracted and panicking. Perhaps if I had something to label that experience prior to it happening I could have 'let go'.. but I had no idea what it was and it was very scary.
> 
> Interesting that red sky said they had a great experience on mushrooms. I watched a Paul Stamets podcast with Joe Rogan and he recommended psilocybin and lions mane. I tried the Lion's mane and am getting subtle positive results. So am going to be MICRODOSING magic mushrooms when I can get some. I know I will get an earful for it, but I've tried everything. And this seems plausible to reroute connections in my brain. I won't be tripping as that would be dangerous.. could work, could go horribly wrong. Either way, microdosing has been shown to help untreatable depression, ptsd etc
> 
> I don't know if because of trauma we are wired to freak the fuck out when we are relaxed or at peace.. it is like as soon as we let our guard down we are retraumatised. So there is always this untrusting, edgy, tension there. Every god damn second... who knows what any of it means


What subtle results have you seen with lions mane?


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## dpsucks (Sep 7, 2012)

Arohanui said:


> Hmm so you only had those moments after you took a synthetic drug ?


 That was my personal experience, yes. I dont want to downplay any experience you had that feels significant to you. Sorry if I came across as being rude. I just believe that it isnt natural to be experiencing things like this, depending on how you define "normal" and "natural". For me, I not only developed dp/dr after my bad trip but also had alot of other crazy experiences that I believe are more related to psychosis, but would sound like "enlightenment" to some. I'd ask alot of people on this site or elsewhere that also had dp about some of my experiences, and they wouldnt be able to relate. That, or they would suggest something else like ego death. Upon researching online, I actually did discover that alot of what I was feeling was not only dp/dr, but also things that people who have used psychedelic drugs might feel. For example I would sometimes feel when sitting in my room that I "was" the room, but this is just one small example of all the odd things I'd experienced over the years. Another example would be having thoughts about there being a "universal consciousness". People with just dp/dr are not supposed to feel these things lol. However as we all know, much of this is related to each other in some way or another. Psychosis, dissociation, ego death, dp/dr are absolutely linked in some way. You can see just how similar "enlightenment" is to the "self disturbance" that those with psychosis will experience, alot of which I can identify with when reading about it. Have a look at these if youre interested.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-disorder
https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/38/6/1277/1858795


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

Lions mane stimulates nerve growth factor which grows new neurons and causes remylenation of nerves. It also has a kappa agonist in it.. my theory is the small dose kappa agonist slowly over time will down regulate the receptors.. I did have increased depth perception, colours and feeling more embodied. Subtle but definitely noticeable effect on DR.. oddly it seems to be fading which is frustrating but will keep taking it for 6 months as I like the taste and results are not meant to be seen this early anyway. Also of note is I was taking bacopa when things improved and then stopped that.. might try that again


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## Silentless (Apr 22, 2017)

TDX said:


> The more I think about "enlightenment", there more I move closer to viewing it as a pathological state, just like depersonalization. Although it sounds highly pleasant, it is certainly no "natural" state. Evolution didn't design our brains to feel bliss all the time. Animals with "enlightenment" would die out quickly. Maybe depersonalization and "enlightenment" are somehow related in a similar way like depression and mania.


This is just a missunderstanding of enlightenment. It just means you have a clear, still and alert mind, which can think very well. it also means you feels as one with life which is the experience of bliss/love, but you still live and enjoy this world, you dont become a vegetable.


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> The best things I've found are basic. Find the joy in the simple things of life, like a cup of coffee in the morning, taking your dog for a walk, small talk or even a deep conversation with a close friend, a certain nostalgic song, saying hi to a stranger, these kind of things. Other things that help is having a balance between comfort foods and eating well. For me that just means drinking a good amount of clean water daily.
> 
> One thing that I wonder about your experience of this is... are you constantly trying to find your way back? Not necessarily to the Peak, but out of DP? I.e. are you always seeking some kind of mental conclusion or insight to "snap you back to reality".
> 
> Meditation helps of course too. Acceptance is key in coping and moving towards recovery. Mindfulness will take one a long way.


That´s awesome, thank you. I´ve been realising the last couple of days how simple, quiet and somehow sober the world around me actually is, there is nothing there to be afraid of, thus I´m really enjoying the simple things in live again as well. I´ll try to put some more emphasis into that direction.

Hmm I was trying to find my way back to my old or true self for a long time, it basically changed just a couple of days ago.. I realised that chasing something that I am not right now is just gonna make me judge my current situation worse than it actually is, I´m slowly finding peace with the whole dp/dr phenomenom.. It´s like i was always trying to fight it and now Im´just letting it happen and don´t care about it anymore, mere the opposite, i´m trying to get deeper into it, i guess its just acceptance that I´m finally practicing..



surfingisfun001 said:


> Nice to read your story it is very interesting. I can relate to a lot of what you wrote.
> 
> A few weeks before my DP occurred I had come out of my religious upbringing and was beginning to see through a lot of the programming and conditioning I had been brought up in. For the first time I felt I was becoming my own self, my own person, with my own worldview, and thoughts about life. I felt better than I had ever felt in my life. I felt like I was becoming who I really am, without the pressure or influence of other people/religion/outside programming and conditioning. I felt very free mentally and at peace. I felt clearer. I was in college and I remember feeling more clear minded when writing papers, I had better rhythm when playing the guitar, I recall surfing better. I think that I just dropped all the baggage that I had been brought up in that had been weighing me down all my life, and accepted who I am, and felt free and at peace as a result. I became more of who I was because other peoples expectations of who they wanted me to be no longer mattered to me. I felt that I really connected with my true nature. For about 3 weeks I felt the happiest I had felt in my whole life.


Really nice choice of words 



surfingisfun001 said:


> Then seemingly out of nowhere the DP hit me. It came and went in waves for the first few months, then became chronic and has been chronic for over 10 years now. It's been hell, the complete opposite of the 'peak' experience prior. I feel that I have been continually trying to get back to who I was before this but no matter what effort I put forth I remain stuck in DP. It was like the carpet just fully got ripped up from under my feet. I've tried everything I can think of over the years but nothing has helped.
> 
> I have wondered if somehow the DP state was brought on by the realizations I had just prior to acquiring DP. However it really makes no sense. Why would I go from feeling like myself, happy, and clear headed to DP, extreme mental suffering, and brain fog? And still be stuck in a DPd state 10 years later. Makes no sense to me.


Have you tried not trying ?

Hmm yeah i have the same thoughts, why would the happy feelings only last for a couple of weeks, but dp/dr lasts for years or centurys, spontanous thought: maybe it´s really because we were able to accept the happy feelings, clarity and everything, but we´re not ready to accept dp/dr

Maybe we´re people who tend to go into extremes emotionally but we want to clinge to the positive extremes although its a world of duality, i guess by accepting that the peak high we felt is in the same way part of us than the same peak low we´re experiencing right now, we might be able to let go of it


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> It could be that we moved passed our lifetime conditioning without ever processing the content of the programming. Like sweeping dirt under the rug, it's still there, just moved aside. And then it may have backfired since we didn't deal with the psyche components, just momentarily had bypassed the old mind structure. And the strain could have been too much for our minds to bear and so...that broke our minds?


Hmm interesting concept, although looking back it feels like I dealt with all my issues which then led me to this peak feeling, but yeah maybe dp/dr is there to show us that we just avoided issues instead of dissolving them



Broken said:


> I don't know if because of trauma we are wired to freak the fuck out when we are relaxed or at peace.. it is like as soon as we let our guard down we are retraumatised. So there is always this untrusting, edgy, tension there. Every god damn second... who knows what any of it means


Hmm following that train of thought there would´ve to be some uncounscious believe deep inside of us that relaxation and peace are not real, that we somehow don´t deserve it, or that it´s too good to be true ? Could be.. In my early childhood i experienced a lot of fights and arguments in my family, i always wished for harmony and love, but it never happened.. so maybe deep inside I believe that



surfingisfun001 said:


> Arohanui, what triggered your DP? And how long have you had it for?
> 
> Have you tried anything to recover or found anything that helps you?


Have it for about 1 1/2 years now.. Puh good question, that i asked myself a lot as well.. I don´t know, i have different theories but none of them feels like it´s the real reason.. Might be this woverload of too much energy that my body couldn´t cope with, might be weed, might be childhood traumas, might be a broken heart, miight be that i was focussing to much energy on other people and making their problems to mine thus loosing the feeling of: what is me and what what is part oof the other person (like emotion etc..)

Do you have any feelings about your triggers? 
I sometimes think that we won´t understand the reason why we experience dp/dr as long as we´re stuck in it, maybe if someone who has beaten it could tell us if he/ she sees the origin of it.

I guess like everyone i tried many things, mostly internally since i got the feeling that things like medication or sport asf.. will maybe help me feeling a bit better but not help me letting go of my dp/dr 
Right now i really try to let go of all my former believes and just focus on who i am right now and how i feel about the things right now and then accepting that, not comparing it to my old views 
I feel like i was stuck in the past for most of the dp/dr time

What worked best for you so far?


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

Broken said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41608984
> 
> A study.. they were however given a substantial dose and this gave improved symptoms that were long lasting. Can't say I would agree with the large dose, but there were reports of the default mode network (DMN) becoming 'more stable'.. whatever that means. But the DMN is thought to be impaired in DPD, specifically the medial prefrontal cortex suppressing emotions.
> 
> Sorry hijacked the thread a bit... but kind of relevant as people have very spiritual/mystical experiences on shrooms... and people from the study claimed to be 'resest, rebooted, reborn'.. guna go hunting Monday


Good luck on Monday, I´m sure you´ll find some  Would you mind keeping me updated on your experience with it ? Sounds very interesting, I wish you all the best for it



dpsucks said:


> That was my personal experience, yes. I dont want to downplay any experience you had that feels significant to you. Sorry if I came across as being rude. I just believe that it isnt natural to be experiencing things like this, depending on how you define "normal" and "natural". For me, I not only developed dp/dr after my bad trip but also had alot of other crazy experiences that I believe are more related to psychosis, but would sound like "enlightenment" to some. I'd ask alot of people on this site or elsewhere that also had dp about some of my experiences, and they wouldnt be able to relate. That, or they would suggest something else like ego death. Upon researching online, I actually did discover that alot of what I was feeling was not only dp/dr, but also things that people who have used psychedelic drugs might feel. For example I would sometimes feel when sitting in my room that I "was" the room, but this is just one small example of all the odd things I'd experienced over the years. Another example would be having thoughts about there being a "universal consciousness". People with just dp/dr are not supposed to feel these things lol. However as we all know, much of this is related to each other in some way or another. Psychosis, dissociation, ego death, dp/dr are absolutely linked in some way. You can see just how similar "enlightenment" is to the "self disturbance" that those with psychosis will experience, alot of which I can identify with when reading about it. Have a look at these if youre interested.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-disorder
> https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article/38/6/1277/1858795


Wow you are very sensitve, aren´t you? No worries, yes i somehow felt offended/hurt (i don´t even know why ) , but that is my responsibilty, you did nothing wrong 

When you were experiencing those odd things, how did it make you feel ? Did you think a lot at the same time like: nah man that´s too weird, that can´t be real, I must be trippin asf.. ? For me they seem like completely normal and natural insights you had, maybe very contradicting to your world view and believes and thus making it "odd" experiences


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

One thing that bothers me a bit atm is how quickly most people throw around with words like psychosis, or basically all mental illnesses.. For me it seems more like people who are considered mentally ill are the ones closest to being sane. I remember when i was feeling happy and could think so clearly that i realised everyone around me was insane in a way. They all had something hectical and unresting in their eyes. Also nearly everybody was waering a mask, i felt like i was the only awake and real person and everyone else was just acting, but they were not really themselves. I didn´t look down on them though, I just felt compassion and love for them, because I had been there my whole life as well. (and now I´m probably back there ) But the people who were being honest with their feelings and were experiencing unusual sensations, like seeing ghosts, were actually the realest of them all. But they are the ones getting stigmated the most, although they are the bravest to share their unusual sensations.. I guess it must be overwhelming learning there is so much more to a human being that we ever learned there was, that we are muich greater and more powerful (in a good way) than we ever thought

Did you guys have similar experiences ?


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

Arohanui said:


> One thing that bothers me a bit atm is how quickly most people throw around with words like psychosis, or basically all mental illnesses.. For me it seems more like people who are considered mentally ill are the ones closest to being sane. I remember when i was feeling happy and could think so clearly that i realised everyone around me was insane in a way. They all had something hectical and unresting in their eyes. Also nearly everybody was waering a mask, i felt like i was the only awake and real person and everyone else was just acting, but they were not really themselves. I didn´t look down on them though, I just felt compassion and love for them, because I had been there my whole life as well. (and now I´m probably back there ) But the people who were being honest with their feelings and were experiencing unusual sensations, like seeing ghosts, were actually the realest of them all. But they are the ones getting stigmated the most, although they are the bravest to share their unusual sensations.. I guess it must be overwhelming learning there is so much more to a human being that we ever learned there was, that we are muich greater and more powerful (in a good way) than we ever thought
> 
> Did you guys have similar experiences ?


Yes absolutely. "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti. It could be that the collective consciousness tore us down like crabs in a bucket. If you don't know, if there are crabs in a bucket and one tries to escape, the other ones try to climb it to get out too but that just pulls the first crab down, so they don't get out. It's also the story of Jesus (whether or not he actually existed even as a regular dude), but yeah, one could say in that story that Jesus was the sane one and everyone else crucified him for it.


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## Arohanui (Apr 25, 2017)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Yes absolutely. "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti. It could be that the collective consciousness tore us down like crabs in a bucket. If you don't know, if there are crabs in a bucket and one tries to escape, the other ones try to climb it to get out too but that just pulls the first crab down, so they don't get out. It's also the story of Jesus (whether or not he actually existed even as a regular dude), but yeah, one could say in that story that Jesus was the sane one and everyone else crucified him for it.


I absolutely love that quote  Jiddu was one of my main inspirations before i got dp/dr

Hmm yeah i thought about that too, do you think once there are enough crabs climbing at the same time they will make it out? And what about us, do we just have to keep trying so one day we´ll get out of the bucket, too? I mean people have achieved it (jesus, buddha asf.. or maybe today people like jiddu, louise hay, tolle and hopefully many many more that are unknown) , maybe it just needs to be more of them.. 
I also get the feeling that I´m gonna switch between dp/dr and the peak for some time, I somehow can´t see myself being somewhere in between anymore..


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## RedSky (Jan 11, 2017)

Broken said:


> Lions mane stimulates nerve growth factor which grows new neurons and causes remylenation of nerves. It also has a kappa agonist in it.. my theory is the small dose kappa agonist slowly over time will down regulate the receptors.. I did have increased depth perception, colours and feeling more embodied. Subtle but definitely noticeable effect on DR.. oddly it seems to be fading which is frustrating but will keep taking it for 6 months as I like the taste and results are not meant to be seen this early anyway. Also of note is I was taking bacopa when things improved and then stopped that.. might try that again


Were you taking capsule or sublingual? I'll have to look up bacopa, I am not familiar with it.


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

30% polysaccharide powder, wood grow, dual extracted. 5g in my coffee in the morning. My mood is worsening to a really bad depression... but I think I can only remember my childhood once I can reconnect with those dark emotions.. I don't think improvement in this condition will be feeling better and better for me. I think there is a lot of dark memories to come. Lions mane has anecdotal evidence of bringing up suppressed memories for people. As does bacopa. Guna start writing 'as if' letters tomorrow and writing about all the bad things I can remember from childhood. I also have cried twice today which is rare.. I think I am reconnecting with some really bad emotions but it is necessary. Recovery isn't always pretty


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## RedSky (Jan 11, 2017)

Broken said:


> 30% polysaccharide powder, wood grow, dual extracted. 5g in my coffee in the morning. My mood is worsening to a really bad depression... but I think I can only remember my childhood once I can reconnect with those dark emotions.. I don't think improvement in this condition will be feeling better and better for me. I think there is a lot of dark memories to come. Lions mane has anecdotal evidence of bringing up suppressed memories for people. As does bacopa. Guna start writing 'as if' letters tomorrow and writing about all the bad things I can remember from childhood. I also have cried twice today which is rare.. I think I am reconnecting with some really bad emotions but it is necessary. Recovery isn't always pretty


Oh wow I am so sorry, I am quite the opposite as my childhood memories are the only thing that give me hope. Recovery isn't always pretty as you said there are things that are hard for me to now because of DR/DP but I still force myself to them so it won't hold power over me, facing your fears helps and I hope your day gets better!

Sometimes when I cry I will feel wayyyy better afterwards or the following day, feel free to PM me if you need someone to talk to some times it helps to just vent.

also thanks for the info, I think I will try getting some lions mane this weekend... can't hurt I suppose.


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

Cheers man I appreciate that. Another thing I've tried recently is anot her meditation I call "don't change your mind". Just let my mind do what it wants, attend to what it wants, wander and think what it wants.. or be blank if you have blank mind. It helps to rest the mind more than I thought it would. I stopped the cbd today as well, curious if that might be making me emotional. CBD is relaxing and helpful, but could also be numbing me to what I need to feel


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## RedSky (Jan 11, 2017)

I actually just started CBD and it calms me down, stops all my little mental twitches.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

Arohanui said:


> I absolutely love that quote  Jiddu was one of my main inspirations before i got dp/dr
> 
> Hmm yeah i thought about that too, do you think once there are enough crabs climbing at the same time they will make it out? And what about us, do we just have to keep trying so one day we´ll get out of the bucket, too? I mean people have achieved it (jesus, buddha asf.. or maybe today people like jiddu, louise hay, tolle and hopefully many many more that are unknown) , maybe it just needs to be more of them..
> I also get the feeling that I´m gonna switch between dp/dr and the peak for some time, I somehow can´t see myself being somewhere in between anymore..


Definitely need more people "enlightened". I was an Atheist before DP/DR, raised that way. But when I got DP'd I looked into the Spirituality. I started with the Tao Te Ching and Zen Buddhism, looked into The Power of Now (Eckhart Tolle), got into lots of new age books and thoughts, and then went deep into Mythology (Joseph Campbell), and Gnostic Christianity, looked at lots of Kundalini information (had a few experiences but no full awakening)... and lots and lots of other things.


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## willbarwa (Aug 26, 2017)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> I've been through this before dp. We call it "the peak". I was 16 years old and smoking tons of weed and reading philosophy books at night and writing down learned insights. Over the course of about 5 months I was improving myself and gaining more and more self confidence. I talked to actually everybody in school, everyone laughed at my jokes. It culminated in July 2003 and I felt so high on life (but in a down to earth way) that the best weed didn't effect me since I was already feeling so good. My thoughts were clear, my senses were fine tuned and etc. I thought it would never fade away. Thought that I had found the meaning of being alive, how to live. Then a week later I had a breakdown and have been dp'd ever since.


Well not to sound like a dick but you smoked "tons" of weed. I think it's safe to say that your opioid receptors went through too much excitation causing some neurological imbalance. How did you get a breakdown? Define your breakdown, what did you go through?

I have DP although it's almost negligible. Only when I really fix my attention toward it do I sense that unfamiliarity again. What has helped me are exercise, supplements, meditation and laughter.

A little disclaimer for anyone: don't put down anyone's regimen even if you think it's a waste of time. What may not work for you, may do wonders for others.

What have you tried?


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

willbarwa said:


> ...your opioid receptors went through too much excitation causing some neurological imbalance.


Possible.


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## willbarwa (Aug 26, 2017)

Its' the reverse for me. I was not enlightened before nor am I now. I have recovered substantially but I still have some residual concomitants. It looks to me that ppl that feel enlightened before DP usually light up their Dopamine, Serotonin , Gaba and opioid receptors to the extreme with some sort of drug.

These neurons become highly addicted to the surge but when that same rush is not met, these receptors crash hard, especially kappa.

When Kappa is out of balance it can cause some serious depression/anxiety.

Folks, I'm no one to judge or to give out lectures BUT I learned NOT to mess with your biochemistry.


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## willbarwa (Aug 26, 2017)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Definitely need more people "enlightened". I was an Atheist before DP/DR, raised that way. But when I got DP'd I looked into the Spirituality. I started with the Tao Te Ching and Zen Buddhism, looked into The Power of Now (Eckhart Tolle), got into lots of new age books and thoughts, and then went deep into Mythology (Joseph Campbell), and Gnostic Christianity, looked at lots of Kundalini information (had a few experiences but no full awakening)... and lots and lots of other things.


I find I cant get enough of it. I was spiritual before but now I'm more than ever. Is it a coincidence? Not sure while DP'ed I read alot too:

Alan Watts

Jiddu Krishnamurti

Jim Carrey (yup srsly)

Kundalini

Buddhism..etc too many things


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## davinizi (Mar 9, 2016)

this might be of interest:

Shinzen talks about the empowering facets of enlightenment and compares this to "enlightenments evil twin" DP/DR. He talks about the rare occasions that he's encountered a meditator moving in the direction of DP/DR and the strategy he used to "cure" it using mindfulness

Enlightenment, DP/DR & Falling Into the Pit of the Void ~ Shinzen Young


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## ElectricalDirt (Mar 3, 2018)

Enlightenment doesn't exist. Normal life is the best life! Don't let your OCD thoughts get in the way.


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

I had the exact same 'enlightenment' experience - for about 2 weeks. I then relapsed - went inside my own mind, so to speak - and then a few months later developed the dreadful 'blank mind' and have been so for over a year. Has everyone who's experienced the enlightenment phase prior to dp also developed a 'blank mind' after? I feel lobotomized now...


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

It would certainly be interesting to know if such an "enlightenment prodrome" is common for depersonalized patients. I have speculated that the state called "enlightenment" could be a mental disorder. If enlightenment and depersonalization were related in such a way, this would support this idea.


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## bigpwn (Dec 14, 2017)

Arohanui said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> about 3 years ago i quitted my studies and went on to travel the world in the next 2 1/2 years. (Mainly NZ and Australia) During that time I worked a lot on finding out what my true passion, morals more like my truest self really was. I made huge improvements and got rid of my ego steo by step. At one point i was just pure positivity and love, my body was radiating optmimism and compassion. I was so calm, centered, peaceful but at the same time somewhat wise. Everything made sense and life felt like it was just flowing perfeclt, there was nothing to worry about.
> Other people where kind of drawn to me at this period and it felt like i could help them all a little by just very deeply and compassionatly listening to them. I always knew what to say or not to say. I felt so connected to myself and everyone around me. I understood everyone of them and why they did the things they did or say the things they said. It felt like because i was so in tune with my inner self, i was able to see deep into the soul of everyone else, i felt soooo connected to them. And everyone kind of sensed my positivity, people used to call me the Ghandi or Buddha of the hostel. I saw the potential and good in everyone and was communicating directly to that. I felt so connected to my Inner wisdom or the universal wisdom.
> ...


I don't want to worry you but the first part where you quit your job to travel the world and felt like you were a changed man with overflowing positivity, increased energy etc. sounds like bipolar mania. You should see a psychiatrist just in case, because mania can be dangerous.

Unless you were doing drugs, then it could be an effect of the drugs.

Enlightenment is bullshit, it's all an increase in serotonin & dopamine, usually caused by a profound experience, or drugs, or mental illness.

And no, I haven't felt enlightened before the DPDR. I was progressively getting tired and then I started having severe panic attacks, first one triggered by red bull & coffee, second one by public speaking, and then it all went downhill from there.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Enlightenment is bullshit, it's all an increase in serotonin & dopamine, usually caused by a profound experience, or drugs, or mental illness.


Indeed, there have been reports where people claimed to attained "enlightenment" from drugs, brain damage and mental illness (e. g. Eckhart Tolle). I suppose the state as such may not be bullshit, but the interpretation as some higher mental state certainly is.


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## bigpwn (Dec 14, 2017)

TDX said:


> Indeed, there have been reports where people claimed to attained "enlightenment" from drugs, brain damage and mental illness (e. g. Eckhart Tolle). I suppose the state as such may not be bullshit, but the interpretation as some higher mental state certainly is.


I feel enlightened for 10 seconds after I orgasm, if that's not proof that it's nothing but chemicals I don't know what is


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> I feel enlightened for 10 seconds after I orgasm, if that's not proof that it's nothing but chemicals I don't know what is


Still I would say "nothing but chemicals" is an oversimplification. Basically enlightenment seems to be a disruption of normal brain functioning, an aberration much like depersonalization. However even among the buddhist community there is no consensus what enlightenment actually is. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them outright regard depersonalization as "enlightenment".


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## kalinka (Oct 11, 2017)

TDX said:


> Still I would say "nothing but chemicals" is an oversimplification. Basically enlightenment seems to be a disruption of normal brain functioning, an aberration much like depersonalization. However even among the buddhist community there is no consensus what enlightenment actually is. Wouldn't surprise me if some of them outright regard depersonalization as "enlightenment".


i think suzanne seagal was such a case ....

do you have any idea where i can get an "overview" about the different explanations of enlightenment? i would like to get rid of the idea the advaita-people gave me and i think it would be helpful to realize that there is no uniform answer to this.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> i think suzanne seagal was such a case ....


I agree. I haven't read her book, but it looks like in the end she died from a brain tumor. I wonder if that caused her "enlightenment" and all doctors were too dumb to order an MRI.



> do you have any idea where i can get an "overview" about the different explanations of enlightenment? i would like to get rid of the idea the advaita-people gave me and i think it would be helpful to realize that there is no uniform answer to this.


I haven't even found yet a serious attempt to classify all the different types of "enlightenment" across different buddhist and other religious tradititions. But this would be the first step before asking how enlightenment "works".


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## kalinka (Oct 11, 2017)

I don't know if the brain tumor and her "enlightenment" were really connected, she died over 12 years after the beginning of her experience. Do you think it's possible to live 12 years with a brain tumor without having other symptoms than DP?

Do you know if the experience of "no-self" is always the goal in enlightenment, no matter which tradition?


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

Suzanne supposedly relapsed after her 'enlightenment' and perhaps this relapse was either the cause or effect of the brain tumor.

I have a question for those here that did experience enlightenment before dp/blank mind. During your phase of enlightenment, did you also lose interest in previous hobbies, interests, etc.? When I felt my own 'enlightenment,' I no longer cared about movies or the music I used to listen to. I mostly wanted to be outside, around nature, people, walking around, enjoying just being alive and in the moment. Movies, music, internet, etc. was no longer interesting to me, as I just enjoyed being alive and totally present, connected, that I no longer cared for distracting myself with such things.

Also, did everyone who experience enlightenment before dp eventually develop the 'blank mind' dp - feeling of no self, disconnection from self and others/world, no more interest or enjoyment/pleasure from anything?


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