# Depersonalization vs Enlightenment? What is the difference



## danjohnbig (Feb 3, 2015)

Dp= no self, time distortions, mirror, unreal world, unsure about time, person etc, fear, anxiety, self absorbed.

Enlightenment= People say they experience emptiness and feel one with the world, compassion, good feelings, caring, love, a complete wholeness with NO fear, they go to bed at night feeling whole, an experience of some sort of happiness, no need to be attached.

So does this mean then, that if one was to experience egoless, then there would be no DP?

Because maybe DP people have ego's just like everyone else but are not meeting there needs or cant meet there needs, or there needs and Expectations are far greater. and so the ego needs to be protected and DP is the protector of the ego.

DP is possibly protected the ego from pain, not good enough, or needs.

But how can there be DP when there is No ego? No ego means there is nothing to fear, or to hide from, or to feel good enough. Because buddist monks don't have no bank, car, house, six pack, women, money, etc and they don't have DP. because there is nothing to protect there ego..

Its just my guess but I believe DP to be some sort of ego protection, BUT I don't think this is the case for people who have been abused or drugs. I think this is for people who got DP from anxiety, not being good enough, depression etc


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

I am not an expert but enlightement is defined to be a state without suffering, which can't be said for depersonalization. It is also said that enlightement can be achieved by mindfulness meditation. It has been shown in some studies that depersonalization correlates inversely with mindfulness. Some months ago I also read a study where differences between "dissociation" and meditative states were discussed.

Unfortunately I haven't yet found a psychological article which discusses enlightement or even aims to operationalize it. Nothing seems to be known about it.


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## ThoughtOnFire (Feb 10, 2015)

IMO Enlightenment is nothing more and nothing less than the most optimal state of mind. Meaning simply that enlightenment is everything working "just as it should". DP is some shitty mode of operation.


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## Ningen (Apr 16, 2015)

Honestly I think there is some factor of englithenment in DP. It's definitely a mental illness that needs to be cured, but I believe most people are enlightened through suffering, especially in the case of depersonalization. Most of us have existential thoughts and percieve things differently from "normal" people, so I think most of us are enlightened in some way. However the more enlightened one becomes the less enlightened one feels, so that might explain the doubt about being enlightened. But that's just my opinion.


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## gasspanicc (Mar 21, 2012)




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## gasspanicc (Mar 21, 2012)

but no there is nothing special about DP, its just ur brain's wiring going FQWFE\\Q3AEGSRB\W3FESVBZBRTDF


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## eddy1886 (Oct 11, 2012)

Enlightenment doesnt scare the living daylights out of you and make you feel paranoid or afraid or lethargic or depressed or lonely or trapped or anxious or generally like youve completely lost your mind..Enlightenment to me is the opposite of all this and hence the complete opposite of DP..Never when i was caught in the throws of chronic bouts of DP did i ever feel enlightened..In fact i felt the total opposite "f****d up" pardon my french..DP is horrendous..Enlightenment is bliss !


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## Ningen (Apr 16, 2015)

Maybe people have a different definition of enlightenment than I do.I feel as though I've learned a lot about myself and who other people are from my DP. To me enlightenment means "wisdom or knowledge gained by transcending normal human experience," and I think DP fits that description. I am extremely perplexed as to people's unflinching adamance towards DP not being enligtenment. I'd consider my blank mind enlightenment, but unpleasant because I have earthly desires to think and feel. You may not consider your DP enlightenment because it feels like hell. However, earthly enlightenment is not bliss, it's hell.


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## Irene (Nov 13, 2014)

If feeling confused, blank minded, tongue twisted, brain zapped, unfamiliar,dizzy, and numb is "enlightenment"...then by all means I'm VERY enlightened and do not want to be...


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> Unfortunately I haven't yet found a psychological article which discusses enlightement or even aims to operationalize it. Nothing seems to be known about it.


If you guys are interested, Transpersonal psychology covers the various states/stages of "enlightenment."

E.g. This is Ken Wilber's version. He doesn't call it enlightenment, but rather splits post-ego stages into the psychic, the subtle and the causal stages.

This is another definition of enlightenment (called "realiisation.")

I do think that in most DP sufferers there's an aggravated ego-shadow split (typically mind-body, examplified by existential thoughts basically taking over and running wild) and this is the stage where focus needs placing (as well as a lower stage where Self-Esteem needs to be achieved.) The key to battling existential thoughts is not with other thoughts, but by reintegrating the body into the mind-body equation.

Sort of a simplistic plan for overcoming DP, especially for "thinking dominant DP types":

1) Gain self-esteem (ask yourself "what do I need to be doing to feel good about myself?")

2) Integrate the body (the domain of doing and sensing, as opposed to thinking) through regular activities of certain kinds right for you.

(If you're saying "how can I gain self-esteem when I'm so focused on my DP symptoms?" that's normal - but do it despite them. You will see an improvement, and this will encourage you to continue.)


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## Hhhhhh (Sep 1, 2021)

Haumea said:


> If you guys are interested, Transpersonal psychology covers the various states/stages of "enlightenment."
> 
> E.g. This is Ken Wilber's version. He doesn't call it enlightenment, but rather splits post-ego stages into the psychic, the subtle and the causal stages.
> 
> ...


 Thank you ❤


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## 0b4u5k4t3d.01 (2 mo ago)

Ningen said:


> Honestly I think there is some factor of englithenment in DP. It's definitely a mental illness that needs to be cured, but I believe most people are enlightened through suffering, especially in the case of depersonalization. Most of us have existential thoughts and percieve things differently from "normal" people, so I think most of us are enlightened in some way. However the more enlightened one becomes the less enlightened one feels, so that might explain the doubt about being enlightened. But that's just my opinion.


 Very good. Depersonalization is a stage on the way to enlightenment, much like there are stages to acceptance. It's a state of mind that allows perspectives that otherwise would not be as easily attainable. Moving beyond it and on to the next stage is simply a matter of coming to terms with where your consciousness is at the moment, taking from it what is of positive use to life experience and growth, as well as leaving behind that which burdens it. "What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger." I'm currently at this stage myself, after surviving the Fool's Journey.

I'd say this stage is almost harder than the realization and suffering that often brings the state on, too... Depersonalization is not an easy thing to deal with, especially if you have active and close relationships.

Know how they say all roads lead to the same destination? Alpha and Omega. Depersonalization is essentially a state of mind on the negative road to spiritual awakening and enlightenment. (Negative in the sense that it's generally brought on by negative or traumatic life experiences, rather than positive and pleasant experiences.) Depending on your karma, you may wind up taking the left path, instead of the right one, ya know? Doesn't really matter in the end, it only matters during the journey and to your ego alone.

By the way, love the name. Wont get in to why entirely, but I'm fascinated by large sea-based life and cryptids.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

In my view, depersonalization is a (more or less) descriptive term referring to a certain kind of experience, whereas enlightenment refers to a certain way of interpreting experience. Can a depersonalized individual interpret his experience as a state of enlightenment? I don’t see why not.


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## 0b4u5k4t3d.01 (2 mo ago)

Chip1021 said:


> In my view, depersonalization is a (more or less) descriptive term referring to a certain kind of experience, whereas enlightenment refers to a certain way of interpreting experience. Can a depersonalized individual interpret his experience as a state of enlightenment? I don’t see why not.


 Wouldn't depersonalization affect the way you interperet your experience, though? I'd say it's a functional part of enlightenment, well... As long as one doesn't let the loss of ego, identity, certain emotions, etc. weigh them down and create imbalance in their life. Successfully accepting depersonalization in a balanced fashion seems almost like a conscious spiritual pragmatacism of sorts. Of course, I'm sure some feel it much differently, and in THOSE cases I'd suffice to say that depersonalization isn't a form or part of enlightenment, lol.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

0b4u5k4t3d.01 said:


> Wouldn't depersonalization affect the way you interperet your experience, though? I'd say it's a functional part of enlightenment, well... As long as one doesn't let the loss of ego, identity, certain emotions, etc. weigh them down and create imbalance in their life. Successfully accepting depersonalization in a balanced fashion seems almost like a conscious spiritual pragmatacism of sorts. Of course, I'm sure some feel it much differently, and in THOSE cases I'd suffice to say that depersonalization isn't a form or part of enlightenment, lol.


Absolutely. I mean, I might quibble with your language a bit…depersonalization does not mechanistically change how you interpret yourself or your life, but such a drastic change in how you experience reality is likely to result in re-interpreting things and influencing your behavior. The main point I was trying to make (and that I continue to try to make in my posts on this site) is to insist upon making a distinction between structure and experience, language and behavior. In other words, I do not suffer because I AM depersonalized, I suffer because I DO NOT WANT TO BE depersonalized. Whether or not I suffer depends on what my values are and where I am directing my attention. There is no intrinsic reason why a person must necessarily suffer from depersonalization; he might find it to be a rather enjoyable or enlightening experience. Although I do acknowledge that most people on this site (including me) would do just about anything to return to their former self, because they valued that “self” much more than they do their current “self.”


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## 0b4u5k4t3d.01 (2 mo ago)

Chip1021 said:


> Absolutely. I mean, I might quibble with your language a bit…depersonalization does not mechanistically change how you interpret yourself or your life, but such a drastic change in how you experience reality is likely to result in re-interpreting things and influencing your behavior. The main point I was trying to make (and that I continue to try to make in my posts on this site) is to insist upon making a distinction between structure and experience, language and behavior. In other words, I do not suffer because I AM depersonalized, I suffer because I DO NOT WANT TO BE depersonalized. Whether or not I suffer depends on what my values are and where I am directing my attention. There is no intrinsic reason why a person must necessarily suffer from depersonalization; he might find it to be a rather enjoyable or enlightening experience. Although I do acknowledge that most people on this site (including me) would do just about anything to return to their former self, because they valued that “self” much more than they do their current “self.”


Well, yes... Of course, perspective is a subjective experience, as much as it is an objective one.. It's for this reason that people can experience such similar, yet different realities at the same time. It's all in the sublety.. Like color for instance, and how different people see it differently (yet assume that they see it the same, since they learned to identify color by name.) You can have identical twins and name them the same name, and it doesn't make them the same person. Those twins could stay at each others side through life, experience all the same situations, but still experience them DIFFERENTLY. all due in part to what could be only minor differences between how the twins compare their current experience to the last one... This is Ego. It's made up of decisions.

Allow me to draw from a source I'll link in a bit. -
------------------------------------------------------------------
"This is the Ego, the individual, unregenerate Personality. Being a component of the Brain’s function, it dies with the body. The Ego or personality is a safety function, a minor form of self awareness that is formed by memory. In a sense, like memory it is a quality of the past and in its functioning it relates all new experience to past memory in order to quantify the threat or potential of any newly experienced phenomena.

In so doing it does not observe the new but makes of it the old, by comparing it to the nearest similar previous experience. Therefore as the ego is essentially memory and memory is the past and the past is dead and gone, so too is the human personality. Human beings are to all intents and purposes machines and they are truly the living dead.

The ego or personality, all that a human being thinks of within themselves as being alive, is founded upon fear. During the process of quickening the transcending mind, fear begins to appreciate that it is beginning to disintegrate. It is dying.

As it dies the fear that it is dies also and the memory which formerly prevented the perception from seeing anything new, suddenly sees all things anew. As memory is also the principal component of time, then what the perception also observes for the first time is the end of time: Eternity. What is left after the mind dies is the Eternal, the greater being, the spirit of the Universe: Life Itself.

From that point onwards memory is founded not on fear but upon understanding. What lives from then onwards is the eternal perceiving itself through the senses of the vampire. The former "personality" is dead and in terms that human beings would understand "There is no life in this body", no fixed or immutable point of reference. This was why Dracula cast no reflection in the mirror. The face, the body, is what human beings think of when they affirm to themselves their selfhood and, being shaped by the personality, the body becomes the ego, the I."
------------------------------------------------------------------
There's a reason why people experiencing "ego death" tend to panic. It's literally death, or the vibration/energy of it in a mental sense, but without death of the body. Of course, it follows a cyclical nature like everything else, (alpha, omega, ends are beginnings,) so it's not like you can't roll back in to a state of ego "life" again, though turning off an awakening can be as hard as turning one on.. There's also the "inverse illusion" of "the world," where if you've not awakened to a higher vibration, you'll fail to be able to experience and thus understand greater dimensions as well as that the physical life you perceive HAS all occured in the past, and that It's only the higher, spiritual "I" which can experience the true present.. This is why people who have yet to awaken tend to miss a lot of what's going on around them, because unless you can catch up with the present, you wont be able to experience the vibrations that remain in constant relation to it.

This is why advanced states of awakening or enlightenment tend to bring about a sense of claircognizance, which is how people "remote view" and "tell fortunes." It is entirely real, though not always accurate (especially considering the nonlinear nature of time and dimensions.) These things require an actual spiritual connection to the target, and for whatever reason, that may not be able to occur.. It could be anything from their own mental shielding trying to block the reception of certain waves, (I look at the body like an antennae and the brain like a computer for the spirit to interface with,) right down to EMF interference, which is the WORST source of it.. That's why spiritually awakened people tend to prefer rural areas, and mountains.. Clearer reception.

I'm not sure how deep in the exo/esotric rabbit hole you are, but his could help.- The Origin of The Dragon Lords of the Rings - Just keep in mind, this is from a Masonic source, so don't pay any mind to the nonsense about needing to be "of the bloodline" to experience any of this (Christ related. There's some bad blood between the Masons and the Church because the Church was responsible for all the book burnings and using witchcraft to invert the truth and "enslave" people for their own gain, to extents that can be argued all day, lol) Humanity has been moving about and breeding so much that these days, it's likely everyone's got at least a few drops of it anyway. It'd be the boomer generation and their predecessors that'd lacking in having ANY of it, and I've even seen even the most set-in-stone baby boomers have awakenings! (No, not on their death beds! Before that! Almost everyone has an awakening on their death bed. Haha.)

Though I do have to admit, genetics do play an important role. Much of my family considers it a curse.. I find it to be a blessing, (though it was confusing when I was young, up until around the age of 26-27 or so.)

Having knowledge of particle physics and wave function would also likely tell you that ones DNA can probably be changed with sound and frequency alone (theoretically, but there's enough evidence to just go with it as being an objective reality of the nature of physics, we just have to learn more about these frequencies and their forms,) thus, one can WILL this change with the correct stimulation and exposure to certain vibrations and experiences in life.

The brain is a transciever after all. It can influence anything, is influenced by all (to an extent, mostly of personal choosing,) It can even influence itself. It's why we meditate.

Another way to influence vibrational alteration is experiencing extreme trauma, which is why the CIA traumatizes their psychic and sleeper agents. It's the quickest means to modifify conscious vibration and induce depersonalization, due to the fact that the environment we exist in is already overhwhelmed with such a broad and heavy range of negative vibration that we're already partially keyed in to. It's abundant, and for that reason, it's got a lot of force and strength.. The only problem is that unless the trauma is personalized and congruent with the persons past experiences, it can just end up causing you to have a psychotic break or depersonalization WITHOUT spiritual awakening, (which is likely what most experiencing it in a negative fashion are going through. Also, many psychiatrists will diagnose an awakening as psychosis, ironically. lol.) The reason that impersonal and extreme trauma manifests as a psychotic break and depersonalization, is because the trauma is NOT congruent with personal memory.. It brings up a sense of "Why me? What did I do to bring this on myself!?" rather than a state where one can accept what is happening as connected to the consciousness experiencing it. It's the difference between getting lost on your own and learning from it, and having a group of men jump out of a van and throw a bag over your head, then drop you off in the middle of the desert, alone, with nothing.. It's tuning the person on to vibrations that have nothing to do with what they're experiencing or have experienced, thus it's experienced as insanity and chaos, instead of synchronicity.

Depersonalization was a really painful experience for me until I gathered enough experience and a certain measure of understanding that was needed to craft some new lenses with. A large collection of lenses is what every studious spiritual detective needs, they're far more useful to me than Ego. Lol.

Ego tends to be a popularly forgotten and equally abandoned tool in this field of work.

I hope all of this opens some new doors and perspectives on depersonalization, ego, and enlightenment for you. If not just a new lead to go on that might bring you to some interesting or helpful content, at least.

I'm looking forward to your response and perspective.


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## ecco2023 (2 mo ago)

thanks for bringing this topic up.

i actually thought about this topic and have some opinions i could share since you asked.
i thought about it first when i saw this meditation teacher "shinzen young" who has a video on dpdr, meditators dark night of the soul, enlightenment.
shinzen basically claimed there is a dark side of enlightenment called "pit of the void" its like the same phenomenological effects that a brown or black belt in some of these meditative schools attains, like a conscious self modification, changes the boundaries between inside and outside, ego etc all these technical topics. however its painful for them and scary, shinzen talked about how he thinks a perception change on the unreality is helpful.


imo i believe what it is is that, even if your consciousness changes due to dpdr how you experience existence and your sense doors etc, is actually mechanically the same as these brown belt or black belt meditators.

however i personally believe its like that picture where they say the conscious mind is like 10-20% and most of the remainder of the persons mind is subconscious (like 70-80% subconscious).

for me, i just happen to know my subconsciousness the larger iceberg of mind which will be a sort of apex that interacts w my conscious mind for the rest of my life, no matter how i perceive things, is just simply itself has a malady.

since my subconscious is dpdr
i just will have chronic dpdr (i turned dpdr from clinical depression around college age, before it was depression)

i cant change that large iceberg it will dawn on me for the rest of my life


however then again i am a dark guy and i am able to self medicate to keep my mood artifically high
my personal view on this in my case its just chronic dpdr it doesnt matter if i tried to go for advanced meditator in some school or another, no matter the attainments their contemplation tradition claims they have, it wont change my malady is chronic\

to try to respond to a specific point you made dan

"
Because maybe DP people have ego's just like everyone else but are not meeting there needs or cant meet there needs, or there needs and Expectations are far greater. and so the ego needs to be protected and DP is the protector of the ego.

DP is possibly protected the ego from pain, not good enough, or needs.

But how can there be DP when there is No ego? No ego means there is nothing to fear, or to hide from, or to feel good enough. Because buddist monks don't have no bank, car, house, six pack, women, money, etc and they don't have DP. because there is nothing to protect there ego.."


in this case though you bring up "ego" sort of in the general language way like "guy w a big ego who has ego about his car, jewelery, etc"

but "ego" in mainstream psychoanalysis for example etc just refers to the conscious mind (like 10-20%). then there is a hovering super ego (imo this is like when you are chilling and then a logical imperative dawns on you from nowhere as the next thought, not even a visual or mental image or other type of thought, like perhaps just some logical conceptual framework to strategically do some activity. super ego supposedly is the quieter logical meta concepts that occur to us they dont always express in verbal or image thoughts it might look like an engineering blueprint that occurs in your mind or some shape representing how you can dominate people on a counter strike map.

the id (aka the subconscious) is like 70-80%.

i totally feel wondering about whether dpdr people and our egos are perhaps hurting from not having our needs met etc.

i actually agree on this hella much and if you have unmet needs or repressed ones it helps so much to do that.

for me imo i was actually repressed, for example i didnt realize i wasnt taking video games seriously enough. i had fallen into a job i did not like, which was basically at a data bank ( i never wanted to be a banker yet i worked at a data bank for 2 yrs). i was watching conventional sports instead of watching esports on twitch.

i was watching tv shows i didnt care enough about because they have social relevance in mainstream society, instead of watching anime on twitch mobbing around w weird bros (my kind of weird).

i eventually quit that dumb programmer job which was all about money and i despised and went for vg freelancer. it makes less pay in fiat currencies but it helped me inside and i think my ego responded well.

i read this theorist of depression and axiety who claimed that being in the wrong type of jobs and confused about your greater work in life can cause like 50% dmg to a typical person in mood and make dpdr worse. i just did not like cash rules everything around me business, i like video games and want to contribute to that.

also i was basically repressed about aspects of my sexuality and learned to accept how i really am, and found friends who are just like me so i stopped feeling toxic shame and guilt about that (the reflection of a society that is 60% stoics and only 30-40% epicureans).

various things like that did help me however i am still dpdr
in my case its chronic 
for other people who knows if they have realizations about their life like i did and make changes
it probably would help w their dpdr in various ways

it helped mine but overall am still a dpdr person and always will i think
i keep my mood up despite the dpdr symptoms


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## ecco2023 (2 mo ago)

double post but to add on some things people brought up earlier

i am not trying to debate the definition of the word "enlightenment" however i can share what i personally think about it

i was an active meditator after reading eckhart tolle around high school (already had dysthymia at this point not yet dpdr)
then i got into the western buddhist offshoot stuff like dharmaoverground which is known to basically be
pretty hardcore at meditating in a sensory fashion (they do vipassana a lot for this) and many people on their forums
going for enlightenment


in my personal opinion what the mainstream calls "enlightened" generally refers to someone who meditated in a tradition
until this thing happens where the distinction between "inside" and "outside" changes aka no self, its a perceptive shift
in my opinion this is basically a brown belt, however we all know any martial art or whatever you can keep getting black belt w stripes for like 20-30 yrs

most dharmaoverground people hit this if they want within 1-2 yrs (its called stream entry over there i think)
after that there is path 1-4

so personally i dont put the "enlightenment" concept on a pedestal, it just is what it is to me, its impressive of course its a brown belt in a school of meditation karate thats all

i think one of the scary things that happens when someone who is recently dpdr and is wondering if they are pit of the void mode or is it a dark night of the soul experience
personally if your ego goes blank mind your ram will probably be shooting into different parts of the mind instead right?
or if the opposite and their dpdr is racing thoughts not blank mind, too many thoughts, then the ram will orient itself to notice the thoughts etc...

there are other books like "interior castle" for example, rooms of the mind etc.

or buddhist map theories of consciousness make a distinction "vebral thoughts and image thoughts" or "sensory thoughts" or "affective memory" etc

i think a lot of ppl w dpdr will spontaneously be noticing these things cause the ram starts flying all weird

if you dpdr out and did not know about interior castle, yet weeks later realize there were rooms in your mind with subconscious imagery that were bothering you, then you intuitively deal with it your own way

it doesnt make u a gnostic meditator however
if you did read that gnostic book it would immediately make sense probably
since you actually lived the dark form


i do believe dpdr will basically throw a person into stream entry whether they want to or not and after that
buddhist meditation schools claim your mind will keep realizing itself at higher levels regardless

i could conceivably fall into a worse dark night of the soul sometime in the future
just cause my mind realizes some aspects of consciousness 
in its natural searching for understanding of the weird phenomena of dpdr


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

0b4u5k4t3d.01 said:


> Well, yes... Of course, perspective is a subjective experience, as much as it is an objective one.. It's for this reason that people can experience such similar, yet different realities at the same time. It's all in the sublety.. Like color for instance, and how different people see it differently (yet assume that they see it the same, since they learned to identify color by name.) You can have identical twins and name them the same name, and it doesn't make them the same person. Those twins could stay at each others side through life, experience all the same situations, but still experience them DIFFERENTLY. all due in part to what could be only minor differences between how the twins compare their current experience to the last one... This is Ego. It's made up of decisions.
> 
> Allow me to draw from a source I'll link in a bit. -
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


Thanks for responding and for all the work you put in. Unfortunately at this I find it difficult to process much of what you had to say, so I’m not confident enough to respond to it intelligently; I mostly just wanted to respond so as to let you know I did (try) to read and understand your reply.

My basic impression though is that I agree substantially in part, and also disagree in part. And even more confusedly, there are aspects of your post where I might simultaneously agree and disagree. It does bother me when discourses become confused and conflated, when scientists start talking like poets, and when abstractions are acknowledged to be empirical entities or otherwise in possession of agency. Still I appreciate your understanding and willingness to try to understand DPDR outside of the simple positive neuroscience vs. accept and ignore dichotomy that is so commonplace on this forum.

The basic way ive been understanding my own experience is that I have tried when I can to find meaning and value and purpose in it, and I’ve even attempted to use this new way of existing to my advantage. But at the same time, I just wish I could magically become “normal.”


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## 0b4u5k4t3d.01 (2 mo ago)

Chip1021 said:


> Thanks for responding and for all the work you put in. Unfortunately at this I find it difficult to process much of what you had to say, so I’m not confident enough to respond to it intelligently; I mostly just wanted to respond so as to let you know I did (try) to read and understand your reply.
> 
> My basic impression though is that I agree substantially in part, and also disagree in part. And even more confusedly, there are aspects of your post where I might simultaneously agree and disagree. It does bother me when discourses become confused and conflated, when scientists start talking like poets, and when abstractions are acknowledged to be empirical entities or otherwise in possession of agency. Still I appreciate your understanding and willingness to try to understand DPDR outside of the simple positive neuroscience vs. accept and ignore dichotomy that is so commonplace on this forum.
> 
> The basic way ive been understanding my own experience is that I have tried when I can to find meaning and value and purpose in it, and I’ve even attempted to use this new way of existing to my advantage. But at the same time, I just wish I could magically become “normal.”


I promise you, brother, life's pendulum doesn't stall, time is a lie, you will move on and get stronger, as long as you don't lay down and give up.

in this realm, usually the inverse of what appears to be true that is actually true. It's tiring, because your brain always wants to ignore this.. It's why we always make quick and pleasurable decisions that always land us in a deficit later (well, until you learn the tricks to navigating this hall of mirrors..) It's even in the science behind the eyes and how they work, magnifying glasses, too...

The "normal" you is the "spiritual" you. The you that you are when nothing's puppeting you, affecting your decisions, or twisting your true interest and curiosity. "Demonic" forces will seek to possess you, your own parents could be the source.. This is why you don't live through others, or shame them in to false interests... Forcing someone to be someone other than who they are is literally killing their spirit and turning them in to a "zoimbie." Deader than dead.. Undead, raised for anothers purpose. Not even the original maker, either! A damned necromancer!

Want to see an artificial identity that mimics the nature of spiritual one, except on a compuiter? 



 The personality/identity will persist even through thousands of randomized iterations, in a purposed attempt to destroy it even...It's almost impossible to do, and it can even regenerate itself from highly distorted states, as if it's TRYING to survive It has something to do with common facial symmetry carrying unique values.. The math that makes up the symmetry of a face is some of the most complex symmetry out there, so it makes sense..,

Do you like Ronnie James Dio? His music helped me a lot through much of my awakening process, especially with depersonalization and taking the steps to allow my real spirituality identity to fully manifest.. My personality is but a mere glimmer any more. The hardest part about it all was learning to like myself after being traumatized and becoming a difficult person to talk to outside of this madness...

See if you can gather the meaning from these songs, which have a LOT to do with what you're going through right now, believe it or not.. See if you can hear it.. They've got a lot to do with the lessons we're here to learn as humans, too, in order to ascend to a higher vibration and not fall to our "demons," trapping ourselves in our own self made hells...

It's not malarky either, tell it to the dead I learned to speak to growing up isolated in the 16th tower..As a young teen, freshly turned 13, My mom moved us in to a towering haunted house, numbered 16, of which my room was at the highest point. This place was my barrier to the world, and provided the trappings to distract me from my true path..I almost lost my mind there with my alcoholic mother.. Not to mention that I was picking up on the thoughts and vibration of the haunting, which was making it all the more difficult to find myself.. The synchronicity is everywhere... Recemtly, upon returning, we had to call up an old friend of my grandmother to deal with it. I ended up bringing some back with me.. Dead traveling companions.. One drowned, passed out drunk in a hotspring, and the other one was a suicide.. This woman runs a coven in our county, and she had them all on their way.. I couldn't talk 'em in to leaving.. There's so much to this world, hidden where your eyes can't see.. Only the third eye, can.. The eye that sees the past, present, and future.. The Minds "I," again... The real you..
















And this last one is about the ego and how it haunts the spirit, and how depersonalization feels when it's fresh and you've yet to see the next door in the distance (which I promise you, when you find it, it is the doorway to the real you.. Depersonalization is strangely it's own character of sorts.. A distorted sense of past self, like all the meat is still there but there's no skeletal structure to move it, and make it operate like it once did.. Everything just feels broken, empty. Like you don't know what to do with yourself, or anything any more. In a way, it's like being a newborn for a while, but with this memory of a past life that needs to fade, and allow for this other past life that you're MUCH more familiar with, but had somehow forgot about starts to fade in and take up parts of your soul's character and vibration.. Eventually, it will replace that dead sack of meat, and it'll be like you were never gone.)





Music will help you find yourself...or find something, at least, if not just move you, when you feel immobile. You just have to find the next door.

I'm trying to be more specific and less poetic, while also leaving the symbolism and poetry, just in case.. lol. It's not easy to find words for the secrets of "God," the "multiverse," whatever you want to call our experiences as part of this massive cosmic body...


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## 0b4u5k4t3d.01 (2 mo ago)

ecco2023 said:


> double post but to add on some things people brought up earlier
> 
> i am not trying to debate the definition of the word "enlightenment" however i can share what i personally think about it
> 
> ...


Never had a problem with depersonalization. Just being honest about how it felt. It was empty for a while, as my true self started to slowly color in the space that had been pretending to be something else, simply because I didn't know what else to do... It was akin to having a bland binder as a schoolchild, and instead of being at peace with it, you just slap a bunch of random stickers on it, instead of adding stickers that you like over time, as you experience life, and all because you don't want the other kids to think your binder is lame.. Well, in slapping a bunch of random stickers on it, you did just that! You spent NO personal time with it because you were too embarassed to embrace it for what it was supposed to be..

I'm paced perfecly fine and have keen senses, there's really not much left for me to do in my current situation.. I was messing with cards and dice, looking for some signs yesterday,.everything is telling me that it's time to volunteer my assistance to a project.. Today, I spun the globe on google earth, clicked, and landed only 4 miles from my own address.. How's that for coincidence? Not only that, but the spot also happened to be right on a Hindu temple that I had no idea was there.. It's huge, golden, with all sorts of other colors, and has been there since I was a child..

I was about to say I can't believe I never noticed it before.. But after the things I've experienced in life, I'm convinced of the fact that you can literally choose not to perceive things, as well as hallucinate on command..It's just a matter of having the will, and believing it.. Maybe a little Xanax to grease the gears.. LOL...I'm no monk!

We all have connection to gnosis, though... You just have to learn to meditate in a certain way.. What I do is meditate on a question with my eyes closed, and unfocus my pupils so that I'm aware of third eye chakra with my two innermost peripherals, but not looking right at it.. Then, after I've firmly built my question on my inner, I'll let it fade out through the third eye chakra and send it to my crown chakra, then hold on to a complete blank while I focus on my breathing as well as this strange pulsing hum I always get in my head when I meditate.. Bloodflow? Brainwaves? Eventually, an answer manifests before me, and that's it.. If I don't question it and go with it, usually the deeper meaning reveals itself to me through signs I'll notice later, while doing whateve, and then it'll all just make sense..

The only time I've gotten an answer that was wrong, was when I overanalyzed.. Newbie mistake. You can't overanalyze gnosis.. You have to let it reveal itself to you on its own terms, unless it's something that should be innate.. For instance, everyone knows it's wrong to stab someone to death in cold blood, for no good reason..If you have to overanalyze, it will always lead you down a path of doubt, because you're looking for reasons TO doubt what you already gnow..

Oh, and that last bit.. Yeah.. That's existence. Enjoy. Boxes within boxes within boxes, lol. At least they're all full of different things, even though it's all sort of the same, too.. Alright. It's maddening. Maybe that's why things like ego and amnesia exist. They're not always inconvenient!


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## 0b4u5k4t3d.01 (2 mo ago)

Enlightenment will come from depersonalization. You may feel lost and scared, but you were always there, and from your perspective, you're "here." Here is just 'There', without a "T." 

The T is you and I, upon the plane, the cross.. To me, you're "there," and to you, I am "there," but to us, we're "here." 

There is in the past... where the dead walk.. The body and the ego together are but husks for walking the physical plane.. Labeling things for lack of confusion.. When the questioning stops and the silence is embraced without fear(where the questions come from, and labels are made,) the truth will be able to be told apart. Find your self upon the cross. Ego is sacrificial to the truth. We're all One.

In the beginning and end.


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## Dragoon909 (2 mo ago)

danjohnbig said:


> Dp= no self, time distortions, mirror, unreal world, unsure about time, person etc, fear, anxiety, self absorbed.
> 
> Enlightenment= People say they experience emptiness and feel one with the world, compassion, good feelings, caring, love, a complete wholeness with NO fear, they go to bed at night feeling whole, an experience of some sort of happiness, no need to be attached.
> 
> ...


It all depends on perspective and how you interpret the situation: everyone is individualized anyway. 

Everyone in life travels their own paths, whether depersonalized or not. In essence, it's a good thing. In fact, we need more independence and individualism instead of sheep (I don't mean this is in a political light, because I don't do politics); I mean it in a philosophical light altogether. 

I personally believe everyone in life has their own individual experiences that enlighten them; it's just many of us (more than you may think) experience depersonalization. 

You could say it leads to enlightenment. Again, it's all about perspective. 

Some ppl go through depression...
Some lose children to death...
Cancer...
Maybe some surgery...
Could be a tough divorce...
Addiction to heroin, and then life without it...

The list goes on as to why an individual could be enlightened including depersonalization and anxiety. 

🌼 🌸 🌻


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