# Realize and Personalize.



## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

I don't post much, and this post Im sure that you'll disagree. I've come here to share my thoughts, not vent them. Some of you think depersonalization/derealization is a condition, some say its a symptom, most people take it badly. Have any of you ever took into consideration that maybe it was meant to be. Maybe we were created to perceive the world differently. We can see things that some artists strives to see by trying to paint unconciously I don't see why everyone see's it as so bad. A lot of the people on this sight I find are full of negative thoughts, and wonders. I personally, do not think any kind of medication is going to help the cause and its something you need to figure out on your own.

I visit this site every so often when the thought of depersonalization or derealization crosses my mind, but it doesn't do that so much anymore. I've noticed that they're people who come to this site everyday, who live for posts, who respond to everything trying to find the answer. Im sorry to say, I find this a waste of time and relatively useless. Ive met a lot of great people on this site, most very supportive..I came hear to learn more about this disorder as I refer to it but Im sorry to say you're not going to get over it by obsessing over it. Im not saying 'don't think of it' because we all know its pretty impossible at times but its really the only way.

They're people that post whom I see that don't go to work because of their dp and their dr, that don't step outside of their house because of it. I've had dp and dr for two years now and I manage, a long distane relationship, a job, schooling, and a disfunctional family because I have too, and if anything this disorder has taught me to grow up more than anything. Im not trying to offend anyone on here, I just want you to question your actions.

Theres a point where you stop panicing everyday and you learn that you need to control this disorder and not let it control you. Not let it control your life, your actions these are all your personal decisions that you'll make on your own. Point blank, there is no miracle drug thats going to help you. Ive tried SSRI's, Anti-Psychotics, etc. etc. and you know what, it was nice of the Psychiatrists to try..but it just does not work. Your only going to overcome it by overcoming yourself.

I think of read hundreds of threads on this site all on the same questions being asked over and over. Yeah, if you smoke pot..its going to get worse. If you drink acohol its going to get worse but if you think you can handle it go for it. Although I have depersonzalition and derealization I still find myself able to smoke a joint now and then and not panic. If anything it makes me feel more relaxed and calm with myself as a whole.

In conclusion, just take a good look at yourself. Take a deep breathe and a minute to realize you're alright, then get on with your life and perhaps it will leave you naturally one day.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

derangedred I agree with most of what you have said but it is very wrong of you to think that other people should be able to just control their lives as well as you have. Maybe your symptoms are not even close to being as bad as some of the people on here. Maybe you just have an easier life then other people on here. You don't know exactly what other people on the forum are going through so it is wrong to act like everyone should be able to live as well as yourself. Someone with DP/DR should be more understanding then that. Your post makes me think that you have very weak DP/DR because if you had it like I had it then you would realize that there are probably thousands of people that have killed themselves because of this illness and just because you are living life well does not mean that you are any better then the people that kill themselves over this. Maybe you just don't have the symptoms as strong as other people do and that is why you don't seem to have any understanding.

I do agree that people tend to freak out about this condition to much and I also think that it is not totally just an illness but it is part of who we are as a person. People should try to take more responsibility for there own actions and there are some people on here that just complain way to much but I still don't like the way that you acted in your post because it sounded like you think that your better then most of us or something.

If you don't have the strong symptoms that some people might have on here then good for you but don't rub that in other peoples faces.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

I knew I'd only get negativity from this post. But since you think my DP and DR, are so weak let me tell you a bit about myself. Thorought my childhood I dealt with physical and mental abuse, not only to myself but to my mother and my siblings, after enduring what each parents had to explicitly tell me about their affaires, I watched my mom attempt suicide nearly every week and a trip to the hospital became daily in my house. As soon as I became old enough I started to experiement myself with drugs, I soon became addicted and then afflicted iwth DP and DR, and in the beginning I would skip school everyday, lay on the couch instead and wondered why I didn't feel well, went to the hospital where I screamed and yelled and had to be held onto the floor while they shoved pills down my throat. Shortly after that my fourteen year old cousin died on his dirtbike outside of my house. So don't even try and tell me Its weak, because Ive worked really hard to manage my life, and manage this disorder, and manage everything and thats why Im doing so well, and this is the kind of encouragement Im tryin gto give you all but you're too blind to realize it.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Also if you are still smoking pot and you have the same illness that I have then I consider you to be a very stupid person.

Either you don't have DP/DR at all or you are just very stupid for comming on here and telling people that you still smoke pot with this condition. It is your choice to smoke pot but it is a very stupid decision and I hope that someday you realize that.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Well, I guess you can tell me mentality and doctors that I don't have depersonalization and derealization because I definitly do. I don't see why you find smoking pot to be so 'stupid' I consider myself a very intelligent person and for a long time I didn't touch it but Ive learned how to enjoy my life again and an occasional joint isnt going to kill me.

This is exactly why I hardl every start threads on this site, because its people like yourself who are too nieve to realize the realization of this disorder will go on and on about stupid thoughts that are created by denial.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

derangedred what is your point.

Do you want pitty?

I have no pitty for anyone that does not show pitty themselves.

My point about what you said is that you come off to me as being a person that don't seem to understand that just because you have gotten your life under control some other people might not be able to. You don't seem like your offering any advise. I think you are just gloating about your own triumph over DP/DR.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> This is exactly why I hardl every start threads on this site, because its people like yourself who are too nieve to realize the realization of this disorder will go on and on about stupid thoughts that are created by denial.


Yes I am totally nieve to whatever your point is because you have totally lost me now. Maybe I am the stupid one, I don't know but you really have lost me now. :?

What denial and what realization of realization are you talking about?

Just so you know, I have been witness to a totally sane person jump out of a window out of terror from taking acid so I don't think that messing around with drugs is a smart thing for anyone to do anymore. Keep messing around with them and one day you might find out just how bad DP/DR can get.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

I don't need, appreciate nor want your pity.

Im trying to tell you that there are ways to manage your life, rather then just spending hours on the interenet trying to fix it.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Yes, you are the stupid one, I think thats the best realization you've made all night.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Yes, you are the stupid one, I think thats the best realization you've made all night.


I am sorry if that is the truth then I will spare you of my stupidity.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Thank you, much appreciated.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

Wow. I don't think this thread should draw fire. It should be inspirational. You lostone of all people on here should understand i would think. By what you've posted about possible upsides about dp and your finding of religion I thought you would recognize how strong deranged has been.

I do agree with you. This place is for people to relate and vent and try to find answers. There is a point where all the sympathy and complaining begins to feed the condition. Giving it more of a spotlight or more a piece of your time and life feeds the thing. I shouldn't even come here as much as i do. Sometimes people need a need a tough love or wake up post such as this. I know how much pain all of us has gone through, but reliving, venting, retelling, complaining can only do so much. I am trying to take the positive pieces i can from dp (being a more concerned and deep person) and acknowledge and defeat all the harmful parts(anxiety, introversion, shock, emotional paralysis). I find your story inspirational. I thought my family life was bad, but good for you for finding positivity and a life beyond your circumstances.


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

WOA!!! You guys need to chill! You know you both are right to some degree. I agree with Derangered about keeping an eye on coming to this site too often. I try to use it to get informed and meet people for their advice, but never to vent. I I feel the best when I don't need to lock myself up in the room to stay countless hours online; another way to dettach.
Also, we can't use DP as an excuse to dwell in apathy, we gotta use the best in us to keep us going, most of us are really talented and creative and gotta stay focused.
Good for you, derangered, for telling the truth and shaking things up!!


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

I kind-of have to agree with a lot of what derangedred said. I visited this forum the day after I started getting it somewhat badly. I read the recovery stories, and you know what? They were almost boring because they seemed to say the same things: exercise, get on with your life, spend time with your family, do some work around the house. I knew I had to just keep focused on what I needed to do and it would go away. And it did that afternoon. It comes back, yeah, because I have panic attacks and it takes some perseverence to get through, but it always goes away. And you have to remember how easily it goes away sometimes.

There were plenty of times when I had to go to a meeting at work and started thinking "oh no! My mind feels like it's blank! What am I going to do!" Now I could see where someone could think that way about getting out of bed. But I went ahead anyways and found out I could answer everyone's questions, talk to people, and do all that stuff and it would actually get better the less I thought about it and the more I got away from it and into what I should be doing.

Sure it sounds like tough stuff, the way derangedred is talking. But you have to plow right through all those thoughts that are keeping you from doing what you need to do to feel engaged with the world again, and then it will go away. You have to take a stand against that part of you that wants to stay inside, quit working, and let nothing change for another day. It's difficult, but it's not going to go away by coddling it and letting it give you more reasons why it's terrible as it's limiting your life.

I guess there's a fine line between not letting it worry you and letting yourself think you're always going to be this way that I'm trying to deal with. When I've been positive and thought that today's going to be a good day at work I've actually had a pretty good time keeping it away, while if I think I'm going to get it and work regardless sometimes I get it...I'd rather not, but when it happens I don't worry about it. That's the stage I'm working through now, and I guess that's where I'd depart from the view that we might be meant to have it. I've gotten rid of it so easily a number of times...given that, I believe I can get better and better and not have to live with it eventually.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

urbn yes you are right, if anyone on this site should agree with this thread then it should probably be me.

I do agree with a lot of what derangedred said but I just don't like the attitude in her post. There is a nice way and a mean way to say things around here. The way that derangedred chose her words could get someone that is right on the edge to go off and kill themselves. I know a few people on here that are suicidal and the way that derangedred sounded was as if she was putting blame on people. There are many fragile minds around here and we should keep that in mind when we post on dpselfhelp.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Its not my posts that would kill them, its themselves.

It all goes back to 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Its not my posts that would kill them, its themselves.

It all goes back to 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

I should also add that depersonalization is the third most common mental health complaint.

The first is depression. Depressed people often think that their condition is not going to go away, and that they have it in such a unique way that they're not treatable the same way as everyone else.

The second is anxiety. Anxious people often think that their condition is not going to go away, and that they have it in such a unique way that they're not treatable the same way as everyone else.

I'll also say this: I was dp'd throughout work today. There were times when I was wondering a little bit about how I was functioning with it. I went home and started wondering a lot about how I functioned with it. My ruminations on it later made it seem worse than it was! It will not help you to come on here sporting a user name that will remind you every time you come here how bad you think your life is. It will not make your dp go away. You cannot do the same thing every day and expect different results, the way a lot of depressed people do, and anxious people do.


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

You lost it LOSTONE!, You're the one who got mean by insulting Derangered!


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

this post brings up a good point that things are going to be rough before they get better. Maybe we all need to see the harsh reality before we can really grasp it. We can't sit in the fetal position forever.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Its not my posts that would kill them, its themselves.
> 
> It all goes back to 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'


Words have probably killed more people then anything else.



> You lost it LOSTONE!, You're the one who got mean by insulting Derangered!


Yeah I guess I did come off a little to strong myself but I know that derangedred can handle that because she said so herself. The people I am worried about are the people on here that "can't handle". 
I am sorry derangedred that I kind of attacked you but I know that there are people that could read you post and get very upset about it. I have seen people get upset on here about much less then what you said in your post. Many of those people don't speak up for themselves and thats why I spoke for them. Again I am sorry for atacking you like that derangedred.



> We can't sit in the fetal position forever.


That's true but we shouldn't scream at the people in the fetal position either because that might make them snap.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

That is noble of you lostone, i have a very sensitive mother who can be terribly set off by the slightly wrong words.

Those sensitive people will speak for themselves though. The question is was it really you who was hurt by the post. Its alright if you were. We are all in rough shape.


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

People who come to this site are obviously interested on information and communication, therefore wanting to get better; I think we owe them respect to their intelligence and regard words for what they are. No one here's gonna commit suicide for a post.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Those sensitive people will speak for themselves though. The question is was it really you who was hurt by the post. Its alright if you were. We are all in rough shape.


No I don't really get bothered about things myself but I used to and I know how triped out many other people can get around here.

I know that derangedred in not one of the people in the fetal position just like how I know Martinelv is not in the fetal position thats why I am not afraid to but heads with either of them. As I said I am more worried about the people around here that are about to snap.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> No one here's gonna commit suicide for a post.


Thats the lack of understanding that I was talking about.

My own mother cut her wrist in front of me when I was a little kid because we got into an arguement. When people are on the edge it only takes a few words to set them off. Putting blame on people that are already very stressed can cause them to go overboard and kill themselves. I have seen it happen more then once in my life.

Actually when your right about something thats when the words can be most hurtting and as I said I agree with most of what was said in the first post. I just did not like the way that it was said.


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

LOSTONE, I don't understand how you can speak for others while constantly displaying the phrase "I EMBRACE THIS NEW PAIN", that's an extremelly destructive attitude. I would kindly ask you to change that for the wellbeing of the people you're so concerned about.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> LOSTONE, I don't understand how you can speak for others while constantly displaying the phrase "I EMBRACE THIS NEW PAIN", that's an extremelly destructive attitude. I would kindly ask you to change that for the wellbeing of the people you're so concerned about.


What is wrong with embracing pain?


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

And also keep your anger and obscene-life experience-disclaimers under control.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> And also keep your anger and obscene-life experience-disclaimers under control.


I am not angry and my life experiences are just reality.

Trust me if I wanted to get graphic then I would get kicked off this board.

And if I was angry then I would not have been able to say that I was sorry.


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

That was wise of you to apologise, and now, let's stop arguing and start helping again, cool?


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)




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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

i know exactly what you mean lostone. My mother od'd on pills in her bedroom while my whole family was home (she is still alive). I rode in the ambulance with her.

There is a diference between what is said directly to somebody in person and what is a topic on a forum. It is directed at no one in particular and if they were offended they would most likely just lash out at the post like you did (but probably even worse).

If people can get past the defensive 'life is horrible and no one understands' phaze and into a phaze of positive rebuilding then it is worth the risk. the chance of a suicide over this post is probably .000000000000000000001%. Its way more likely they'd just get pissed.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

whoops everybody reconciled.... i'm just being a dick now... sorry


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## lacuevadeloso (Mar 15, 2006)

We gotta see Derangedred and LOSTONE to make up to close this battle, though.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> the chance of a suicide over this post is probably .000000000000000000001%. Its way more likely they'd just get pissed.


Your probably right but I have had a lot of messed up people in life.
My perceptions of people is probably a bit messed up because I have had so many crazy people in my life. Actually I feel a little strange when I am around "normal" people now because I am so used to the crazy people. Sometimes I get jumpy because of what I have been through. 
I probably should have just done a little more thinking before I responded to this thread.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

LOSTONE said:


> I probably should have just done a little more thinking before I responded to this thread.


don't worry about it. Non of us are normal people. I understand your concern. There are touchy people who could see this post and spiral into depressed self hating thoughts. We need to help these people see the light though. Sometimes sympathetic posts aren't enough. Sometimes they may have to face the ugly truth before they can begin the path to recovery.

I think your concerns are justified lostone. I'm conflicted on this very topic when dealing with my mother and her problems. I want to tell her what i really think, but she is so fragile. I suppose I haven't practiced what i've preached on this thread. I do beleive it is a different situation since this wasn't a direct comment to anyone. Anyone who is sensitive would be able to dismiss it. It is tough whatever way you look at it.

I would like to pick a side but.... derangedred i admire your bravery to give some tough love in an attempt to inspire growth in others. Lost one i am very sympathetic to your feelings of protection of those who are are sensitive and on the verge of some bad decision. I think both of your posts are justified and i think it made for a very interesting thread.

Ultimately i hope the message you posted derangedred gets through to people.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I think both of your posts are justified and i think it made for a very interesting thread.


I also think that this thread has turned out pretty interesting and almost funny.

Urbn I agree totally with what you said and there have been many times that I have wanted to put up a thread like this myself but even in more deatail and more stern then this thread. There are certain people on this forum that come to mind though that make me think that I should just keep my mouth shut because they will just start beeting themselves up and tell themselves that they are no good and then go off and kill themeselves or something. It is very important that certain people on here try to realize that most of there problems are there own doing but some people are just still to messed up to realize that. I have wrote many times over and over about how we all need to try and accept this and try to live with it the best we can but many people on here are still so messed up and depressed that the only thing we can do for them is to give them support. Putting blame on people that are allready probably blaming themselves is not the right thing to do. This thread was not direacted at anyone in perticular and I should not have went into attack mode about it but I know there are people out there that read these posts in extream desperation and they are probably to scared to even speak up for themselves. My sister is like this and if someone says something to her that upsets her she will just act normal until she gets home and then she will start stabbing and cutting herself again. It is people like my sister that I am worried about because I know how close some people are to being pushed off the edge.

derangedred I think is very far from the edge from what she says and thats why I am not to concerned with hurting her feelings because she should be able to handle it.

And I do get upset when I hear about people talking about how it is okay to abuse drugs on this site. I think that it is very, very wrong to be talking about drugs in a positive light on a website for people with drug induced disorders.


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

i consider myself a very very strong willed person,and so does anyone that meets me,but boy has this illness made my life misserable... but i agree that alot of the posts do go around in circles and i even p**s myself off for repeating the same old stuff... but as ive found with dp it follows a path of recovery it usually starts with a certain desperation to fix the problem so visiting this forum is like a lifeline and thats fine but when you get better i feel that visiting these forums should be reduced,if you have a bad day come on here and chat if your feeling better go outside and try your best to recover from this..... different things work for different people but the main focus should be to get on with life the best you can when you are having a good day... lets face it we were all newbies at one point grasping to this forum for answers...... in my oppinion this disease is at its worst when we are in total introspection and the best way for the mind to relax and repair is to focus outwardly or accept and embrace this feeling the best you can


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

I guess its time I made a response. LOSTONE, I appreciate your apology but I still don't see how you could come on her, shoot down all my thoughts and then within minutes start apologzing and saying that you've always wanted to post a thread like that. Im not sympathetic towards you. We've all got problems but some choose to exploit them so they can get the pity they want. Others like myself choose to keep it quiet, because its not really anyone's business what I've experienced in my life. As for drugs, my DP and DR, was drug induced as well as trauma induced but I don't 'abuse' drugs. Its like saying taking a few perscription drugs must but abuse. Marijuana is just like anything else, except its not a legal substance in most countries. If I can handle to smoke a joint now and then, I will and Im not abusing it. Its not like I wake up every morning and smoke a joint to start my day. No, not at all. I appreciat ethat you had the brains to apologize though, so for that I commend you.

As for NikkiUK, I'll dare to say anything I feel like wether you like it or not. Im tired of people on this site saying how I couldnt cope if I had such bad dp/dr as everyone else because Ive been there and done that. There was a point where I decided it was ridiculous to let it even control me, so I really, really don't appreciate you trying to tell me I haven't felt it like everyone else. Its ignorant to judge my symptoms on the little information you know about me. You should have a resonable knowledge on the subject before you open your mouth and try and tell me what my life is like because you'll never know.

I went through the suicide stage, everytime I walked passed my shower I envisioned myself going in there and slitting my wrists up and writing on walls, Ive suffered major hallucinations of blood coming out of the shower head. So HOW DARE YOU, come on here and judge my DP/DR. Yeah most people take it as a 'bad thing', but maybe one day when you're finished dwelling on it, you'll make the best of it asweel because theres really no other way and if you never realize that, then I feel sorry for you.

As for urbn and lacuevadeloso, I appreciate your support, and everything you've had to say thus far.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

I guess its time I made a response. LOSTONE, I appreciate your apology but I still don't see how you could come on her, shoot down all my thoughts and then within minutes start apologzing and saying that you've always wanted to post a thread like that. Im not sympathetic towards you. We've all got problems but some choose to exploit them so they can get the pity they want. Others like myself choose to keep it quiet, because its not really anyone's business what I've experienced in my life. As for drugs, my DP and DR, was drug induced as well as trauma induced but I don't 'abuse' drugs. Its like saying taking a few perscription drugs must but abuse. Marijuana is just like anything else, except its not a legal substance in most countries. If I can handle to smoke a joint now and then, I will and Im not abusing it. Its not like I wake up every morning and smoke a joint to start my day. No, not at all. I appreciat ethat you had the brains to apologize though, so for that I commend you.

As for NikkiUK, I'll dare to say anything I feel like wether you like it or not. Im tired of people on this site saying how I couldnt cope if I had such bad dp/dr as everyone else because Ive been there and done that. There was a point where I decided it was ridiculous to let it even control me, so I really, really don't appreciate you trying to tell me I haven't felt it like everyone else. Its ignorant to judge my symptoms on the little information you know about me. You should have a resonable knowledge on the subject before you open your mouth and try and tell me what my life is like because you'll never know.

I went through the suicide stage, everytime I walked passed my shower I envisioned myself going in there and slitting my wrists up and writing on walls, Ive suffered major hallucinations of blood coming out of the shower head. So HOW DARE YOU, come on here and judge my DP/DR. Yeah most people take it as a 'bad thing', but maybe one day when you're finished dwelling on it, you'll make the best of it asweel because theres really no other way and if you never realize that, then I feel sorry for you.

As for urbn and lacuevadeloso, I appreciate your support, and everything you've had to say thus far.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I guess its time I made a response. LOSTONE, I appreciate your apology but I still don't see how you could come on her, shoot down all my thoughts and then within minutes start apologzing and saying that you've always wanted to post a thread like that.


I did not shoot down all your thoughts. I actually said that I agreed with most of what you said, but you have the wrong attitude and you invalidate the pain that many people on here have been through. I said I was sorry for calling you stupid because I know that I should not have reacted like that. Actually this is the first time I have reacted like this to anyone on here. You just have the wrong attitude to be posting anything on dpselfhelp I think. There is nothing wrong with people looking for support on a support forum. Dpselfhelp is a self help website if you did not know that. When you invalidate the pain of so many people on this forum then you should expect a fight and you actually even made a note of the fact that you did expect a fight from your very first post. Maybe you are just looking for a fight I don't know but I am through talking to you and I will avoid all of your threads from now on because I seriously do not like your attitude at all.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

If you refuse to listen to any of my ideas then thats cool but one day you'll get it, and when that day comes I'll congratulate you.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

LOSTONE said:


> What is wrong with embracing pain?


Nothing. Embracing the pain or the symptoms is the way out, the way to feeling better. You pretty much sum up recovery by saying you embrace pain. This is actually a very good attitude to have towards the symptoms.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

derangedred said:
 

> Marijuana is just like anything else.


No it's not.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Maybe it would be good to embrace the pain if he actually lived up to that.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Oh its not? What is it then. Please tell me because Im obviously too niave to notice.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

derangedred said:


> Oh its not? What is it then. Please tell me because Im obviously too niave to notice.


I didn't write the argument. You did. Defend your own arguments.

Imagine taking a class in college and when you're expected to defend what you've written you say to the teacher "No, you defend what I've written, teacher."

This is what you're asking.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

derangedred said:


> Others like myself choose to keep it quiet, because its not really anyone's business what I've experienced in my life.


It is everyone's business when it's displayed on a public forum. If you're looking for privacy on the internet, you came to wrong place. The internet is public domain.

Also, you say you choose to "keep it quiet," but then proceed to spill your guts, in the paragraphs immediately following the phrase "Others like myself choose to keep it quiet."


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

I think this thread lends credence to the idea that depersonalization doesn't really get rid of your personality, it just makes you really feel like you do for a while. Otherwise people wouldn't be getting offended and defending themselves.

I think some important ideas are getting lost in all this arguing, and that we actually agree more than we disagree. I think derangedred has brought up something that's both important, maybe even essential, for recovery, but that can't really be put in a way that's not at least somewhat confrontative because it involves confronting the negative thoughts that keep the problem going. If you've ever had cognitive-behavioral therapy you'll know that this is crucial to ridding yourself of the unreasonable thoughts that continue to make you miserable. People pay therapists to confront them in order that they get better.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

Lunar Lander said:


> If you've ever had cognitive-behavioral therapy you'll know that this is crucial to ridding yourself of the unreasonable thoughts that continue to make you miserable. People pay therapists to confront them in order that they get better.


I would argue that if DP/DR is the result of trauma, then CBT would do little good. CBT works great for a lot of problems, but usually not in recovering from trauma. Recovery from trauma is more of a physiological release than anything psychological. If your DP/DR is not a result of trauma, then the approach to recovery may well be different. In other words, if you have DP/DR for reasons unknown and/or without anxiety then perhaps CBT would be effective in this instance.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

I was just asking for your reasoning for saying that its not like anything else so I could elaborate on it more but I suppose I will anyway. Most people see Marijuana as a scapegoat, as the gateway drug and this is just perposterous. Most people don't smoke weed to "get away form it all" to be "sooo high" I for one don't. You talk about me like I abuse this drug, when its far from it. If anything I abuse paxil which I have to take 60mg's of, and I take a lot more paxil in a day then Marijuana intake. I smoke pot maybe two three times in a month. So Don't call me a drug abuser because Im clearly not.

Also, I meant I keep quiet as I don't exploit things that have happened to me. I don't blame them for my everyday problems because I don't blame, its myself. I'll talk to you about my thoughts on this disorder, but Im not going to go on and on and try and gain pity and sympathy from the rest of you by talking about irrelavant things to this post.

Yeah, maybe I have the wrong attitude about this but maybe you need to see it for what its worth.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

Actually, I would think it would be best for anxiety. I must admit to an ignorance about full-blown trauma. But things like recognizing the symptoms and confronting the kinds of thoughts that you have which activate, perpetuate, or exacerbate DP, I would consider a CBT approach. The eight attitudes of recovery from _Don't Panic_ which we both appreciate, are basically a CBT approach to anxiety symptoms as they challenge the attitudes which exacerbate panic.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Im just saying, for some people marijuana can be traumatizing to use during dp and dr, but for others it can open a more spiritual reality, and I would have thought some of you would have respected that.


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## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

luckily my dp/dr isn't very bad at all for most of the time so i cope with it very well. i'm able to not let the dr control _anything_ about my life for about 80-90% of the month. however, there were times in my life when the derealization was so bad i was nearly hallucinating. of course it had a huge effect on my life during those times. i carried on with things as best i could, but i had to make certain life-style changes (i quit school and my stressful job and started working at starbucks). i believe that making those changes were crucial in my recovery. i have finished school and am now at ceramics teacher but if my dr ever got to the same severeness it was a few years ago, i will not hesitate to quit until it goes away again. the point of this story is that every body needs to find their own way of dealing with this disorder. i'm very happy, deranged, that you have found your way of coping and moving on, but i don't think it would work for everyone.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Deranged, you are like a bull in a china shop.

I don't see it as tough love, more lack of understanding.

It gets on my nerves that Lost One was criticised for facing up to Deranged. There is nothing about being a sensitive person that makes it okay for other people to treat that person like shit. But unfortunately, that often seems to be the case.

I've noticed (at university mainly), that even if a sensitive person is right and a normal person is wrong, the crowd will always favour the normal person. It's like a form of discrimination.

Now, I know that some of you may read between the lines and be offended by this, but I fully admit that it may be a form of "projection" that I see this happening on this thread. And even if it is true, I don't blame any individual, it just seems to be a regretable aspect of nature.


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## freesong (Dec 26, 2005)

For pity sake, what the heck is going on here? Everyone goes through stages with this condition and for that reason we should allow all perceptions and circular thinking etc. Everyone is different and deals with things in different ways. There is no point in criticizing anyone with regard to this. This site is for those who are needing help and trying to cope at whatever stage or level they are in. Negative feedback may be a part of a person's coping or analysis and it should not be threatening. I personally am glad that others have allowed me to go through my stages without criticism because I might have felt less likely to share and learn. But, if someone was to criticize, then I would consider what was valid and what was not and move on. Take what you like and leave the rest. For those who are sensitive, there will be others who will be a little less negative to it and they will be those who have been that way themselves. Let's just be gentle with each other as much as possible because so many of us are already too hard on ourselves. That is all I have to say about that.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

miss_starling said:


> I've noticed (at university mainly), that even if a sensitive person is right and a normal person is wrong, the crowd will always favour the normal person. It's like a form of discrimination.


The person with reason and logic should always prevail, regardless of any emotional component, IHMO.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Well, I think that reason and logical should prevail. I don't think that it should be about people prevailing but unfortunately it always is.

The US and UK governments are good examples of people prevailing over logic. Why are Bush and Blair still in power?

It is not necessarily the people with the most beneficial attitudes that win support.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

miss_starling said:


> Why are Bush and Blair still in power?


Bush and Blair are decent leaders. I actually disagree with Bush on a lot of things. He can't communicate worth a shite. He looks goofy and ridiculous when he's giving a speech.

However, I did a paper on Al-Qaeda while in college (1994). Apparently I had heard of Al-Qaeda before President Clinton.

The $60,000 question is: Why was al-Qaeda allowed to build up, growing from a tiny organization in the early 90s to a full blown terrorist entity by 2000 (USS Cole Bombing, Embassy bombings in Africa, etc.).

It's hard to blame Bush or Blair for 9/11. Bush had been in office just 9 months prior to 9/11. I would hold most accountable the administration in charge during the planning and build up phase of the attack. Reports are that the planning phases took place as early as 1996.

If I was in charge for 8 years and then handed my power to someone else, and something awful happened within months of that person taking over, I would have to go back and examine where the root cause was, and if there were opportunities to intervene, why didn't I intervene. Clinton was offered bin Laden's head on a platter more than once, and declined.

Anyone who was President during the mid/late 90s would have succeeded. I mean, c'mon, the dotcom boom, everyone getting online and buying stuff. It was good times.

I realize you're in the UK, but I don't know about 2008 just yet. Democrats should run someone other than Hillary, because no way can she win. She's said too many ill things that will come back and haunt her like

"I'm going to start thinking of the lady who cleans my bathroom as a human being."

or

"We're going to start taking things away from you, for the common good."

The first female US president will be a lady who's pro-life and not pro-choice.

Democrats could win back the House (2006) and the White House (2008), but I think they need a better message than "Vote for us because we're not Bush." In that case, you are voting against someone rather than voting for them. Democrats need a clear, specific message/plan that resonates with the people, and they will be a threat to Republicans real fast.

As for Bill Clinton, he was more of a conservative Democrat, and that works in US politics. Hillary is more of a socialist, which doesn't work well in American politics. Not at all.

Anyway, sorry for the poli rant.

Jeff


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)




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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Theres a differance between sympathizing and pity, Nikki. Its not sympathy people want on her, its everyone pity. They post the same things over hoping to gain some supportive words. Maybe Im just not cut out for supporting other people.

Secondly, Marijuana does not alter my mind. Unless you have experience with it, maybe you should shut your mouth because it affects people differently. Smoking pot doesn't 'alter' my mind. My mind has already been altered by dp and dr, and its funny how you say that Its not clever to use mind altering drugs, when I have just proven to be better off then the rest of you. Its none of your concern, so I'd appreciate it if you shut your sloppy mouth.

I don't need people to be nice to me, I don't rely on other people, I don't have to be dependant because I can think for myself, other then listening to babbling bullshit that everyone else has to say to me.

You honestly think I care a lot about what my image is to a bunch of whiney bastards on the internet? Nah, I shouldn't say whiney bastards because there are a lot of good people on this site but actually, do you think I care that much about my 'image'? That's shallow.

FINALLY, TWO SENTENCES DOES NOT DESCRIBE MY LIFE, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU A REASONABLE IDEA, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU RIGHTS, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU SHIT.

You know what, I don't need to support everyone else. Im not here to be a shoulder to cry on, Im here to learn more about my disorder, not to read a bunch of repetative shit from everyone. You can't rely on an internet website to cure your life.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

Oh but you know, no grudges, and no offence intended.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

miss_starling said:


> It's nothing personal A1, but the problem with many Americans is that all they care about _is_ America.


Kind of cool we have this political sidebar going. LOL.

Actually, I think it's (very) unfair to say that America only cares about Americans. If America (and the UK) dropped billions in aid, would other nations suffer? Of course. The US and UK are quite generous to other parts of the world. I don't believe that the richest nations on the planet should simply give money to the poorest.

I think the smarter idea is to give money for education and then measure progress. You have to hold people and economies and societies accountable.

A Conservative generally says "Judge me by my results, not my intentions."

Whereas a Liberal will say "Judge me by my (good) intentions, not by my performance or results.

In other words, "All that matters is that I tried." To me, trying is not enough. You need results.

The goal is to give people money so they can eventually support themselves, not so they can just keep sucking off you and I forever. At some point the aid needs to stop.



miss_starling said:


> I don't dismiss the autrocity of the Twin Towers, but there are autrocities going on *every single day* in other parts of the world as a direct result of the neglect and abuse bestowed on the world by the American and British governments.


What about the former Iraqi government? Or the Iranian government? You seem to be giving those guys a pass. It's always the US and UK that's bad and evil? How unfair (and untrue).



miss_starling said:


> but thousands of lives are being destroyed on a daily basis in Iraq.


Even more lives are being transformed. People now have a chance. I have a friend serving in Iraq.

Here are some photos of her and Iraqi's that you won't see in the mainstream media. Of course the MSM (mainstream media) blames everything on the US and won't ever show you the full story.



















Soldier handing out chalk to boys.












miss_starling said:


> -How would you *feel* if the infrastrure of your city was destroyed by fighter planes overnight?
> -How would you *feel* if you couldn't even get on a bus without the fear of being blown up?
> -How would you make your children *feel* protected with the sounds of bombs dropping night after night in your town?


Feel, feel, feel. 3 times in 3 sentences. Those are all emotional arguments. Emotional arguments just don't hold water.



miss_starling said:


> Bush's saving grace is his goofiness. It is hard to look at him and see a serial killer, but that is what he is and it doesn't seem to bother him that much.


War is an ugly thing. But living under tyranny FOREVER is far worse. At least Iraqi's now have a chance. They didn't have this chance under Saddam.



miss_starling said:


> I would have thought that Blair would have to decency to resign after the Iraq "war", but he didn't.


Tony Blair is a good man. Unless you follow politics, no one in the US even knows who he is (which is a horrible thing). US public schools are terrible. But that's another issue.



miss_starling said:


> It is astounding to believe that Bush and Blair call themselves Christians. Not that I defend the religion, but it is meant to be based on goodwill.


They're giving millions of people a chance to flourish, a chance they didn't have under Saddam.

My philosophy is that if tens of thousands have to die over several years period, so that MANY MILLLIONS can eventually thrive, then you have to accept the deaths of those tens of thousands. Otherwise, Saddam will kill tens of thousands each year, himself, while others live their entire lives in poverty. I'm just glad Iraqi's now have a shot at a much better life (and their children and their children's children).


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

Wow. You did have a good point before derangedred, but now your just being a douche bag.

I do agree with:


derangedred said:


> FINALLY, TWO SENTENCES DOES NOT DESCRIBE MY LIFE, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU A REASONABLE IDEA, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU RIGHTS, IT DOESN'T GIVE YOU silly*.


Yeah no one probably has nearly and idea what you've been through and shouldn't judge you based on that.

They should judge you for saying this:


derangedred said:


> when I have just proven to be better off then the rest of you. Its none of your concern, so I'd appreciate it if you shut your sloppy mouth.


That was just arrogant and quite assholish.

and


derangedred said:


> You honestly think I care a lot about what my image is to a bunch of whiney bastards on the internet? Nah, I shouldn't say whiney bastards because there are a lot of good people on this site but actually, do you think I care that much about my 'image'? That's shallow.


You attempted to take it back, but you still called most of this comunity a bunch of whiney bastards. There may be one or two around here, but to generalize practically everyone here like that was uncalled for and fugged up. You shouldn't care what people think as long as you feel what you say and do are honest, respectful and true. You were just being purposefully hurtful. I now don't blame anyone for reeming you out. So what if its the internet. These are still people and you should treat them like they are.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

derangedred said:


> Theres a differance between sympathizing and pity, Nikki. Its not sympathy people want on her, its everyone pity. They post the same things over hoping to gain some supportive words. Maybe Im just not cut out for supporting other people.
> 
> Secondly, Marijuana does not alter my mind. Unless you have experience with it, maybe you should shut your mouth because it affects people differently. Smoking pot doesn't 'alter' my mind. My mind has already been altered by dp and dr, and its funny how you say that Its not clever to use mind altering drugs, when I have just proven to be better off then the rest of you. Its none of your concern, so I'd appreciate it if you shut your sloppy mouth.
> 
> ...


CLARIFIED ON 3/30 before going to the tax preparer. There goes ALL the money, LOL. Thought I'd distract myself. 8) My hair has to dry.

EDIT: You say you don't rely on other people. Well, one day you might, and you have alienated a good number of people here. (Someone else made a point of that below, but it's an excellent one.)

There is a difference between sympathy, pity, and EMPATHY.

Deranged sp?, you MAY see many people repeating the "same old things" here because there are newbies coming and going constantly. Others are going through a stage that seems to vary with the individual. The Board changes constantly. Go into the archives, and yes, you will see some of the same names as far back as 1997? when Andy C. (who had DP/DR at the time and I believe is now in his mid 30s?) first created the DP Board that evolved into this Board. That was nearly 10 years ago. But many are gone -- having gotten the information, support, etc. they needed. Some pop in now and again. I don't recognize some, well a good number, of the names here and I was once a Moderator -- and I used to know "the group".

*You are entitled to your own opinion but people get pisssed at you because of your attitude not what you have to say.*

I believe you once said I was obsessed with DP. No I'm interested in applying my experience with mental illness to mental health advocacy and helping other people with all mental illnesses. But why would it matter to you one way or another? Why do you need to be RIGHT? The one with "all the knowledge."

One young woman here who was seriously ill became a neuroscientist. David Kozin who has an entire section on this site, who has a drug induced perceptual disorder has created a non-profit organization -- NODID -- that is coordinating research through this board w/Mt. Sinai.

Andy C. who created the first board coordinated research with the IoP in London with Mauricio Sierra. This Board and Dr. Sierra came upon the "Klono-Combo" ... a group of very hard working people then brought DP information and hope to others.

I also recall Stephen C. who no longer comes here had started a chatroom on AOL in the early 1990s. He is a fighter and after years of struggle is now a successful musician and a music teacher.

*At any rate. Why do you care? At all. You really don't seem to give a hoot and yet you come and post, which I don't understand. To prove you are right about ..... what? I haven't caught on yet. Guess I'm stupid as well ... oh, yes, and I'm old. 8) An old crab or something like that.*

*Sounds like you have no EMPATHY. No ability to connect with the feelings of others.*

Also, there are many here -- some who have come and gone -- myself included who grew up with DP and other mental illnesses before the internet existed and felt we were completely alone. We went through many of the stages of obsession, terror, some acceptance, or some took their own lives along the way. I personally know 3 people in my life who have taken their own lives due to mental illness. I also know many more who have not.

*Many such people, who still continue to have DP or other mental illnesses, went on more or less successfully with their lives --or rather they were more or less successful with work and love -- all that is really part of survival in this world.*

Some people over 30, over 40, over 50, who have families of their own, success in jobs, contribute to society in many ways and their DP has not stopped. And many other people with mental illness continue with their lives and as we all do, and one day they die -- having suffered a lifetime of mental illness.

*As I've said, and others have said, it's your attitude, not your POV. Everyone is entitled to their POV, but as someone said, why not back up what you're saying with some data for example?*

*Again, big surprise, there was a time when there was no internet. But mental illness, and I'd wager DP, has existed since the beginning of man. Chimps/and Harry Harlow's monkeys, are known to experience mental illness. Dogs seem to experience maladaptive behaviors after being abused, or are born literally with behaviors so unnacceptable they must be put down. They attack their owners for no reason, etc., etc., etc.*

*One offers sympathy say at a funeral when a loved one dies, because we all suffer loss. We can understand loss as it will eventually happen to all of us. This is perhaps in part a cultural mechanism.

Pity can result in great generosity and altruism, or great cruelty and manipulation ... a sense of superiority. Members of the International Red Cross pity those who are helpless and starving and offer help for example. But I suppose they think, "But for the Grace of God go I" and hope that in the future if their home gets taken from them someone might offer assistance.

Empathy is what is most important to being a human being. To put one's self into another's shoes. If one lacks this, one probably can not sympathize, nor can one express genuine, altruistic pity.

The hallmarks of a sociopath. But I digress. And I don't diagnose others here.
*

They are similar, yet very different emotions/cognitive reactions to other human beings.

As the Buddha would say I guess, if you have nothing good to say .... nothing constructive to say ... in a decent manner ... why say anything?

Just curious is all. And I've found, the first time I read your posts, I was indeed overly sensitive. I noted that, and learned from it. You don't bother me at all. I simply find you an object to observe .... as you seem to see those who post here. I find it hard to have empathy for you, though I experience it with most of the people I know in this world.

As Mr. Spock would say,
"Fascinating."
Live Long and Prosper
D

*Also, re: the age business. Someone said that wisdom comes with age. And no problem, in a way, I'm glad I'm older. I think. :shock: Yes, whether you like to hear that or not, and I didn't when I was younger, it's true, for most.

FINAL EDIT/CLARIFICATION:
But I also know people your age, a very young age, yes. A rough age. These are the children of my peers. I know many 16 year old kids who have empathy, who would NEVER come on a support forum and say what you have in the manner you have. So it doesn't have to do with age. But I can empathize with the fact that you have fears, concerns, issues that might affect how you post here. Young people are different from older people in MANY ways.*

Hmmm, I'm glad I'm older and have experience a wonderful and horrible life... really. It's never been boring. I just wish my back didn't hurt so much and that half my body doesn't work anymore, LOL.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Derangedred, as many people have stated there is more a problem with the tone of your post than anything else. From your very first post in this thread you have come off as condescending - making everyone here sound like a lazy bunch of whiners... while you are little Ms.Recovery who thinks we should all get up off our asses and just feel better.

Someone questioned the severity of your DP before, and while I don't think its nice to point fingers - but if you think its possible to just get on up and stop complaining about DP and live your life - you have NOT suffered with it as much as I have, and as much as many people on this site have, and that is a solid FACT. DP becomes my entire life, and do you think I haven't tried just moving on with my life? It's not that simple. Another FACT - if you think DP is a positive experience then you also have not experienced it to the level I have. I am not 'turning it in to a negative experience' - it is a nightmare. I am very very sorry to hear what has happened to you in your life, and there is not one bit of sarcasm in that, but your suggestions about DP specifically are inaccurate at best.

Also, you insulted us for having circular conversations. I am someone who comes to this site and probably posts the same things about 5 times over the course of my time at this site. My memory is bad so I make a bunch of different threads about it - and I am seeking out comfort. I am not going to pretend I am not, and I don't see why I should. I want to hear people say "Its okay, its just DP i've been there before and you'll be okay". That is why I come to this site - as well as to help other people - however, as much as I want to pretend im a good person and i'm here to help everyone - i left the MINUTE I got better, without looking back until I got worse again.

This is a perfect example of this site being used for support. I need a shoulder to cry on, I need people to tell me i'm normal - and when my life goes back to normal I'm gone - the happiest boy in the world again. Thank god this is not how it is for everyone, because I need recovered people to talk to at times... and those people are incredible.

I'm not even going to get in to the weed thing, i've gotten in that argument with friends at many a point and it's not somewhere I wish to go again.

All i have to say is that I believe i've seen posts of yours before and didn't find them nearly as insulting as these. You say you are not here to be a shoulder to cry on, you say you are a lot better yourself - so why exactly are you here?

If it's just to yell at our lazy asses to Personalize and Realise (Really?! I had never thought of just NOT having this disorder anymore.. its brilliant) then I suggest you move on. Otherwise if you need help, we are here to talk.

Matt


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

urbn said:


> Wow. You did have a good point before derangedred, but now your just being a douche bag.
> 
> I do agree with:
> 
> ...


Urbn and I were posting at the same time.
Yes, what Urbn said.
Except maybe douchebag, LOL? :shock:


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

(side political conversation)
In response to 1A's post

Bush is one of the worst presidents in history. If he was going to take out a horrible dictatorship then there are many to choose from. There are countries in South America, Africa and Asia that have much worse quality of life and live under terrible fascists. Why didn't the U.S. go in with full force when there was mass genocide in Darfur. Iraq did need a regime change, but i wouldn't put it at the top of the list of countries that do. The benefits of oil and the appeasement of other Middle Eastern (oil holding) regimes seems to be a large part of incentive for war. Why didn't we send 130,000 into Afganistan where the real terrorist threat has been growing. afganistan is a mess and should have been the real focus. It has been marginalized because it has no economy besides drugs and has no easy fix for the tribal warfare. We basically half as*ed the real problem and created a whole new generation of terrorist in a new country. We made a whole new battlezone where terrorists have found a new source of enraged muslim youth. They now have an area to create unrest and attack more U.S. troops. Bush runs on fear like the cold war era anti-communists. He claims that we must go out and seek those that are dedicated to malicously attacking us because of our principles.

This cartoon sums up how i feel about bush's crusade against these "evildoers" that are bent on attacking us because of our freedom:
http://www.danzigercartoons.com/cmp/2005/danziger2585.html

I do think that we should be a positive pressence in the world, but we poorly planned this war and have messed it up in many ways. There are many positive things going on and now that we're in i think we must be dedicated to helping them until the country is stable and has a decent infrastructure.

On other issues bush also sucks balls. He passed a "Clean Air Act" that let more lenient emissions standards pass. He walked out on the kyoto (spelling?) meeting about reducing emissions. He has censored all scientific reports about global warming. I saw it on 60 minutes a couple weeks back. All reports about the decaying ice caps have been edited. Wherever there was hard evidence showing the rate of melt it is blacked out and a comment like "speculative" is written. The man who oversaw all these documents and edited them was a former oil lobbyist who went back to working for his oil company.

Bush passed his medicare bill (which is meant to solely benefit drug companies) that caused confusion and the failure to deliver prescriptions to seniors who depended on them. Emergency action had to be taken to fix this.

Geez there have been countless indigtment hearings and scandals that should have caused terrible unrest. A few of his former white house members have left in disgust and gone on telivison to tell about his horrible methods. One(maybe Bob Woodward?) told about the talk inside the whitehouse and how Iraq was on Bush's agenda from day one. He told his staff to look for reasons to invade, this problem didn't just arise.

Man the wiretapping is a gross misuse of power. He needs to be held accountable for this one. I hope the bill that Russ Feingold is pushing to "censure" (hold accountable) Bush passes. We can't let this go. the patriot act that somehow keeps passing through congress is also a terrible overstepping by the government. I mean library records of U.S. citizens....wow.

There are also higher-up's who were responsible for the lax and unclear standards of prisoner treatment which led to abu-graib. I forgot who, but some lawyer appointed by bush in the white house wrote the guidelines and purposefully left them quite puzzling with many torturous methods being left acceptable. Rumsfeld was probably connected too, i remember hearing something.

God there are so many things about this administration that leave an unsavory taste in my mouth. They are experts at dodging responsibility and spinning information. Sorry for the long kind of vaige rants. Thanks though 1A. You have reignighted my Bush-hating passion. I think i will go out and get the hard facts so i can bash him with concrete evidence and numbers instead of memories of news stories i have heard.

This political stuff probably should go in another thread in whole other section. Sorry for feeding the side conversation.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

Dreamer said:


> Urbn and I were posting at the same time.
> Yes, what Urbn said.
> Except maybe douchebag, LOL? :shock:


Thanks dreamer. I would say you put it much, much more eloquently (and avoided words like douche bag and quazi-words like assholish). Great post man. That point about empathy was beautiful. I liked the buddha quote too.

If we are going to get through this we need to be able to relate and comiserate. I originally agreed and still do that sometimes a little tough fire-under-the-ass posting can be benificial. Sometimes we have to face the horrible reality before we can accept it. That doesn't mean the people on this board are bad people for looking for some sympathy though. When it got malicous and you started attacking NikkiUk and the entire board...You went too far derangedred.


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## Phil M (Aug 14, 2004)

Derangedred, what if you do get up off your lazy ass and get on with your life but the dp/dr is still always there? Like you work, socialise, have kids, go to college but the dp/dr is at a constant level 24/7 (in dreams 2) and hasn't changed for over 14 years. Thats not even a minutes relief in all that time!

I have no sense of self, cant feel my body, don't feel happy or sad, I feel just nothing. I look at my child of nine years, my family, the places I grew up, friends I grew up with and feel nothing. I still get up off my lazy ass though.

I suppose I must be doing something wrong?

We've all been your age dereangred, and as dreamer stated, many of us actually didn't even have the internet when our disorder started. I was actually in rehab at the age of 19 with crack heads, heroin addicts and alcoholics all much older and meaner than me. At this point I had already had chronic DP for nearly two years and was terrified (no meds). The place was full of people that hadn't even been through a detox, they were there on court orders. A very intimidating environment.

However, I stayed in rehab 9 months and returned home got a job, bought a car, got an appartment, then went to uni all on my own but the DP/DR didn't change and still hasn't.

All i'm saying derangedred is that, although you feel like you do at the moment, it would be very foolish to assume that things can't change or get worse in the future. Perhaps then you'll realise how important this place can be if you ever need that support and you'll then regret attacking those who you then look for for EMPATHY. Your initial post was therefore, IMO, an unwise move.

Take care 
Phil M


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## Phil M (Aug 14, 2004)

Derangedred, just like to add that because you're younger, I can actually see where you're coming from. Wisdom does usuallly come with age, Dreamer is a great example of this (sorry only joking :shock: )

Anyway derangered, take care, and stay strong.

Phil M


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

In order to stay on topic I made a duplicate of the political debate with all posts concerning it in this topic in the "that's life" forum:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewpost.66230.html#66230


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## chiara (Nov 5, 2005)

'''Secondly, Marijuana does not alter my mind. Unless you have experience with it, maybe you should shut your mouth because it affects people differently. '''

Then what exactly does it do for you? Whatever it does, it does to your mind. 
I guess an occasional joint wont kill you but then again...you never know.

Unless you are growing your own and not spending your money on it and getting it from someone else- you never know whats in it and what effects it can have on you.

I am a prude when it comes to ''recreational'' pot smoking. Still I wonder if it doesnt alter YOUR mind..what does it do for you??


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

people come here to vent,for understanding,for friendships,ultimately for hope/peace.i think you made a good point about repeated threads derangered,but you are sailing pearilously close to the rocks if you are dabbling with pot.check out what every survey on the subject of mental illness,what the doctors and shrinks say.Read posts by people who had one pull of a joint and would give their right eye for that moment back so they could walk away from it!!

this isnt just my oppinion,the weight of numerous stories and personal experiences are behind me,im not pulling ideas from the clouds.Read hppd stories,you will c yourself.

Try and chill out without the stuff.hope you are well and if you think you can improve this site in any way,post up some of your artwork.


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

[quote name="derangedred"]so, i was just wondering, ever since i got dp/dr i haven't drank or done drugs or anything. a few times i did drugs on dp/dr and found it was really flower* up when i was high, weird silly* would happen lke i couln't feel my body and i was all numb and just weird silly*. so i haven't drank and im just wondering if you getting totally hammered while having dp/dr what happens? does anyone know or tired it? like does it get worse? and if you get drunk does it just make you stuck more in dp/dr and make everything even mopre flower* than it is oncwe your sober. what im tryig to say is that does it make your dp/dr worse after you sober up. but what i really would like to know is what its like to have dp/dr and been totallyhammerd.

so yeah if anyone wants to answer this for me please do."

So Deranged ( Derangedred )...I see when you first came here you weren'r so hot on this drug thing you have going on. I think your previous post when you first came on said you said you were 15. So maybe you've had yourself a birthday and you're all of 16 now. Wow, do you ever need to do a little work on some social skills, kiddo. :shock: Maybe you can do that while you finish growing up and learn how to do some of the things Dreamer suggested. Then again, I think from reading some of your past post on here, you will always be the self center little ranter that you are.

Yeah, I don't know you. Don't want to. This is a support site. You are not looking for support. It would better serve the site if you would just do your reading to find out about "part" of your problem, not post crappy threads like this one, and then feel free to visit other sites on the net where you can find more information on your obvious other disorders.

You like playing tough don't you? You like not mincing words don't you? Well then, I just wanted to be "supportive" in the way you like it.

Oh yes, and as you and the other girl say, no offense meant. :wink:

REALIZE AND PERSONALIZE...WOOHOO !!


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)




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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

well oops again.


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

8) OOPS!


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)




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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

miss_starling your debate with 1A has been moved to the thats life forum.

Thanks to urbn :wink:


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)




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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

a) you can not judge how weak or strong a person is by comparing at 2 different lives. one person can kill themselves because their dog died and for another to reach to that point can take abuse, pearents beings shot dead, him being crippled or even much more than that.
You may say , hey that person shot herself because her cat died and that so stupid but the soul is an abyss and you cannot explain but yourself .
b) eveyrone should congratulate themselves on the progress they are making. even a tiny step. it's nice to love yourself for no matter how small a step. pressing yourself too much makes you feel bad, (isn't that how we got dp anyway) again you and only you know how much you can press yourself
c) I understand you were trying to make us do something courageous
d) when you are ill and depressed or dped or freaking out it is the worst of things to tell to someone hey you are not doing enough
even if it is not something u say in the face
a sesitive soul already suffers from guilt and before digging for courage it needs understanding and compassion
you need to say to yourself hey that;s good i did good today
you need to feel that you are not the cause of your condition and of course you are not! but maybe the cure lies within you!
d) don';t try to understand everyone if somethings annoys you don't stress about it to much
that's it!


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

miss_starling said:


> Now we are turning on each other (cf Iraq civil war). The invasion of Iraq isn't going to be some neat and tidy solution, whereby the suffering is done now, and the future is rosy. What happens now effects future generations in negative ways.


The media wants us to believe there's a civil war. There's no civil war. It's all made up. Are things perfect? Of course not.



miss_starling said:


> Your arguments are based on emotion also - hope, putting an end to suffering supposedly.


Iraqi's had their first democratic elections a while back. Elections are more than emotion. An election is an event, a process, not simply an emotion.



miss_starling said:


> But the invasion of Iraq has scarred the nation in a way that is unlikely to be healed in the time time frame you speak of.


What about the original root cause of the scarring: Saddam Hussein. The man who tortured his own people. Again, like Jimmy Carter, you are giving the tyrant a free pass. Why?



miss_starling said:


> You say that the Coilition are being cruel to be kind. But there always comes a point where the negatives outweigh the positives.


There "always" comes a point where the negatives outweigh the positives? Always? Always? How depressing. You know that's not true too.

For extraordinary things to happen, big risks must be made. Otherwise you end up comfortably miserable your whole life. It's nice to be comfortable, but never too comfortable that you can't advance because of the strong aversion to change itself.



miss_starling said:


> Did the situation in Iraq justify the invasion? Where's the proof?


Proof: http://fdd.typepad.com/fdd/2006/01/alert_saddams_c.html

Proof: http://iraqdocs.blogspot.com/

Proof will never be enough for liberals, however, since they actually want their own countries to fail.

Liberals can't be bothered with pesky little things such as facts. Emotions matter more to liberals than facts.



miss_starling said:


> The "war" was not just bad for the people of Iraq. Many young men and women (in the coilition) have had to kill for this cause and will have to live with that fact for the rest of their lives, and afterlives if you believe in that possibility.


The war is bad according to who? You? The media? Why not ask the people of Iraq? The majority of Iraqi's even supported getting rid of Saddam.



miss_starling said:


> Feelings matter. What is a person without feelings or empathy? A robot?


Feelings do matter, but only when accompanied with substance, and with reason, logic. One should never make important decisions based solely on emotion.



miss_starling said:


> Emotional arguments can be used to sway people, for sure.


Emotional arguments can effectively sway liberals. The right-wing isn't so easily convinced.



miss_starling said:


> You say he is a good man. What does that mean? Was I meant to have an emotional reaction to that?


He's a good man as he recognizes and understands the evils of the world, and has gotten involved and is doing something about it, while most everyone else is passive.



miss_starling said:


> According to your classification (Democrats intentions>results, Republicans intentions<results), it looks like the conservatives are wearing the mask of socialism in that they are harping on about a vision that is far removed from the reality of the situation. Just makes you wonder what result they were hoping for?


You seem to be repeating the media's talking points about the war. The media wouldn't tell you the truth if they could. They're all doom and gloom. This is war. People will and do die in war. This is a fact of life, going back to the first ever conflict on the planet.

Liberals seem shocked that people actually die in wars. Why?

Overall, the situation is bright. You wouldn't know by listening to the BBC, though. Only the bad news gets reported in Iraq by the mainstream press. Bad news is always more popular, for some reason.

Do you think the BBC is giving the people a fair depiction of the war?


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## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

derangedred said:


> Secondly, Marijuana does not alter my mind. Unless you have experience with it, maybe you should shut your mouth because it affects people differently. Smoking pot doesn't 'alter' my mind. My mind has already been altered by dp and dr, and its funny how you say that Its not clever to use mind altering drugs, when I have just proven to be better off then the rest of you. Its none of your concern, so I'd appreciate it if you shut your sloppy mouth.


i think it's funny that you are telling nikki to "shut your sloppy mouth" because she has no idea what happens to you when you smoke pot but yet the whole premise of this thread you've started is that you know that people with dp/dr need to "get on with their lives". you don't _know_ what dp/dr is like for everyone just like we don't _know_ what pot does for you.


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## derangedred (Apr 13, 2005)

As for drunkness, I was pretty scared the first time I decided to drink again not knowing what it would do to me but I found the experience to be a positive one. All it really does, is make you feel cloudy...its just like being drunk with dp/dr, but you're still able to know you're alright, and you don't start tripping, and hallucinating.


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## Mollusk (Nov 12, 2005)

1A said:


> The media wants us to believe there's a civil war. There's no civil war. It's all made up. Are things perfect? Of course not.


True, there is not civil war now. I wouldn't be so sure its not going to happen though. The risks of one are a valid concern. With the bombing of the mosque there has been waves of violence between the sunnis and shi'a. Its getting rough there and the media is reporting it.



1A said:


> For extraordinary things to happen, big risks must be made. Otherwise you end up comfortably miserable your whole life. It's nice to be comfortable, but never too comfortable that you can't advance because of the strong aversion to change itself.


That is true. I think action needs to be taken all over the world. If Bush really cares about suffering of the worlds people then there are several countries in the world facing poverty, oppression from fascist regimes, and mass genocides at the hands of warlords. Iraq was not on the top of the worlds list of suffering countries. What about the mass genocide in Darfur? What about Haiti? We barely lifted a find when all of haiti was consumed be war and violence. What about Afganistan? Our progress and amount of effort in afganistan is quite sad when you look at the condition of their country. 
This war couldn't have been started for the Iraqis. The logic just doesn't make sense. It just seems hinky how much the oil benefits were from Iraq and pleasing the surrounding saddam-hating, oil-holding regimes.
Now that we are there we are committed to these people and must help them. I am happy that progress is being made. I do hope something good comes out of this fugged up war.



1A said:


> Feelings do matter, but only when accompanied with substance, and with reason, logic. One should never make important decisions based solely on emotion.


Very true. Too many people fall victim to solely emotional decision making.

The key is to first use logic to accurately gauge what the situation is based on hard evidence. Then based on your results speak your opinion passionately, but backed up by fact. Not the other way around, which is to be emotional about something and look for evidence to back yourself up. In that state you will purposefully find what you are looking for and ignore the opposition. Bush does this quite a lot...



1A said:


> Proof will never be enough for liberals, however, since they actually want their own countries to fail.
> 
> Liberals can't be bothered with pesky little things such as facts. Emotions matter more to liberals than facts.
> 
> Emotional arguments can effectively sway liberals. The right-wing isn't so easily convinced.


Ha! Wow Bush has gained all his power by pleasing his base of hardcore Cristian Conservatives. These are the people that follow him blindly based on little or no fact, just the emotion that Bush envokes in them. God sent him on some grand crusade to fix the world... He is ruining it though...

If anything Liberals are too cold and emotionless sometimes. I wish i could ignite a fire under the ass of the democrats in congress because they have no passion.



1A said:


> You seem to be repeating the media's talking points about the war. The media wouldn't tell you the truth if they could. They're all doom and gloom. This is war. People will and do die in war. This is a fact of life, going back to the first ever conflict on the planet.


Yes the media does get better ratings from gloomy stories. There are good things going on Iraq that probably are not being reported. All the bad things they are reporting are still going on though. There is strife everyday. Doctors are being dragged out of their offices and shot or kidnapped. It is extremely dangerous to be in the medical feild in Iraq now. That is an extremely bad combination with all the violence going on. Horrible things go on everyday...

War should be a last resort. Unfortunately it is still a necessary evil today, but this was not one of those cases.

*Would you die for this cause 1A?*

I deplore the violence going on there, but on some level i can understand some of the insurgents motivation. I do not agree on any level with the horrible acts of violence they are committing though. I can say the same about what the U.S. and U.K have done there though. Abu- Graib comes to mind among other atrocities.

I just understand why some of them would be angry and resort to violence because unfortunately it is in their culure (plus their limited education). I still am disgusted by all forms of violence especially the insurgents tactics. I posted this before, but this cartoon basically sums up how i can have sympathy for them:
http://www.danzigercartoons.com/cmp/2005/danziger2585.html


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

1A said:


> Proof will never be enough for liberals, however, since they actually want their own countries to fail.
> 
> Liberals can't be bothered with pesky little things such as facts. Emotions matter more to liberals than facts.


Those assertions are outrageous. I would say the exact same thing about hawkish conservatives. I suppose you think phrases like "Axis of Evil" or "War on Terror" are just prosaic titles designed to convey the cold, dry facts of the situation. The right-wing is infamous for it's manipulation of the truth and slipping it in a tidy, "easy-to-swallow", mass-marketed, emotion-filled propoganda package. Compare a Noam Chomsky lecture to a Bill O'Reilly rant and tell me who infuses their points with emotion.

Unbelievable.

By the way, i'm pasting other comments i made in that other thread over here.


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

1A said:


> Here are some photos of her and Iraqi's that you won't see in the mainstream media. Of course the MSM (mainstream media) blames everything on the US and won't ever show you the full story.


Unless you're talking about the mainstream media in Qatar, i don't see how you can assert this. For some reason, neo-cons always like to paint themselves as the ones under attack by the "liberal media". Mainstream media in the U.S. nowadays (and i mean within the last few months) seems, finally and at long last, to be a little, tiny, insy teensy weensy bit more critical of the Bush administration, but anytime from around post 9/11 to late 2005, it has been overwhelmingly supportive or, at least, uncritical of Republican platforms and policies.


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

1A said:


> They're giving millions of people a chance to flourish, a chance they didn't have under Saddam.
> 
> My philosophy is that if tens of thousands have to die over several years period, so that MANY MILLLIONS can eventually thrive, then you have to accept the deaths of those tens of thousands. Otherwise, Saddam will kill tens of thousands each year, himself, while others live their entire lives in poverty.


This is an oversimplification though Jeff. How many people will die as a result of other governments (Russia, China, India, Pakistsan, or many others) using the U.S. precedent of defying the United Nations and acting unilaterally against a sovereign nation? This action alone has set us back decades in terms of international peace and cooperation and will undoubtedly cost far more lives globally than would ever have perished under Saddam. By the way, the future that faces the Iraqi people is far from one peppered with rose pedals. A nation consumed in tribal feuding or swept up by fundamentalist lunacy seems far more likely than a nice cozy oasis of democracy in the middle of the desert.

s.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

I just thought id throw my 2 cents in here for the hell of it.

1A seems to be fully indoctrinated in the liberals=bad concept. The whole liberal bashing thing going on down in the US is just another attempt to shift the blame from the neo-cons.

The liberal bashing in the US now bares a striking resemblence to Mccarthyism. Bush couldnt find any communists to blame so instead he blames the liberals. It would be funny if it wasent so sad at the same time.

The liberal bashing done by the neo-cons and there right wing media outlets such as fox is utterly retarded. Im suprised they dont blame their car troubles on the liberals too. Must be that goddamn liberal radiator overheating again.

Its only been very recently that the media in the US has started to question Bush and that is only because his stupidity has reached epic proportions that knowone could ignore.

Good little unquestioning neo-cons dont even think before they lay blame. They always know exactly who is the cause of all their troubles. They also forget that the US actually supported saddam during the iran-iraq war. It was only when he decided to invade kuwait that they thought of him as a problem. Before that he was just a good and useful thug.

Orthodoxy is truely unconsciousness in the case of the neo-cons.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't know a lot about the American situation (that's not entirely true - i follow politics in general, but would not know completely about American media influence over it's people). Here in Canada it is textbook Conservative to use media and relgious influence to gain supporters here. In the recent election the Conservatives actually had an ad bashing the liberals for having negative ads towards the commericals. It went something like this:

"Paul Martin has resorted to using NEGATIVE ads against the Conservative government. Paul Martin is immature and so forth.. blah blah, do you really want him as your leader? Vote Conservative"

Only Conservatives could actually have a bashing ad bashing bashing ads.... haha oh lord.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Matt210 said:


> I don't know a lot about the American situation (that's not entirely true - i follow politics in general, but would not know completely about American media influence over it's people). Here in Canada it is textbook Conservative to use media and relgious influence to gain supporters here. In the recent election the Conservatives actually had an ad bashing the liberals for having negative ads towards the commericals. It went something like this:
> 
> "Paul Martin has resorted to using NEGATIVE ads against the Conservative government. Paul Martin is immature and so forth.. blah blah, do you really want him as your leader? Vote Conservative"
> 
> Only Conservatives could actually have a bashing ad bashing bashing ads.... haha oh lord.


 Well im not exactly sorry to see Paul Martin go. Lets face it he was a corrupt idiot, but im not to happy having Harper and the conservatives in either. The really good thing is though is that hes in a minority government so he cant get away with any of his right wing crap. So we really didnt do too bad with this election at all.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

comfortably numb said:


> Matt210 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know a lot about the American situation (that's not entirely true - i follow politics in general, but would not know completely about American media influence over it's people). Here in Canada it is textbook Conservative to use media and relgious influence to gain supporters here. In the recent election the Conservatives actually had an ad bashing the liberals for having negative ads towards the commericals. It went something like this:
> ...


I actually think Martin was a really intelligent guy. However, things couldn't work out more perfectly because the Liberals have a chance to rid their party of the corruption that has plagued them, get a new leader, new image - and will be back and finally have a majority in a few years time.

Harper has already pulled a couple of stunts, such as bribing that guy in BC over to the Conservatives with offers of a cabinet seat.

Ridiculous, but he cant get away with much as you said, luckily.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Well all of the canadian parties kinda piss me off at the moment. The liberals are as corrupt as hell, the conservatives wanna drive us back into the stone age, the NDP have gone completly wussy, and the bloc are just...well the bloc what can you say. I like the NDP the best but there totally soft. There afraid to even mention the word socialist( which is basically what they are) and they dont argue with anyone. There afraid to offend anyone at all.


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