# Double Standard



## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

"I tried one kind of psychotherpay for a month and it didn't do anything for me, so I'm swearing it off as it is clearly useless for me"

Typical response: "That's entirely acceptable, it's entirely possible for a person to figure out if it will work in the first month based on one method, I won't judge you what so ever! It really just isn't for everyone -hugs-"

"I tried a single med for a month and it made me feel worse, so I'm going to swear off meds as they clearly aren't helping me"

Typical response: "OMG your so closed minded! You didn't give it enough time, you didn't try the right ones, you aren't qualified to decide that!"


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Any way, I've been getting dicked around by my college in a bad way recently, so I was just venting in a rather unproductive way.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Andrea44 said:


> Yeah yeah I've heard it all before. People will always judge.
> 
> Those that respond to medication usually only do because of the placebo effect. There is no sure fire way to treat MH issues as nobody even knows wha the hell the actually root is.


Must disagree.

I have been on many medications that have done NOTHING, not even given me bad side-effects. I have been on meds that gave me bad side-effects. I have also been on medications that saved my life.

I am in an anxiety/depression support group. About 3 years now. It is astonishing to see someone come into the group in a horrible state of depression, or mania, or hideous anxiety (medicated by drinking -- a lot of alcholocis ... that works until you nearly kill yourself with it). After 6 months on meds, they have turned their life around. You can SEE, HEAR, FEEL the change. They do as well.

I have seen people moved from being on disablity to returning to work full time.

I would not be here if it weren't for Klonopin. I'll take a lie detector test on that one.

NO medication (save an antibioltic) can really CURE someone. And mental health medications CONTROL symptoms, they do not cure them. Others are treatment resistant or only get a small benefit and that "poops out." This happens with individuals with epilepsy ... the med works for a year then "poops out."

Most medications were discovered by accident. I believe anti-depressants had to do with the treatment of TB. Individuals beting treated for TB noticed feeling "better." Not happier, but "less sad" had more energy. They weren't "looking for that effect."

Placebo effect CAN occur, but it is often with someone who tries something for a very short time, and even at a dose that wouldn't be expected to give results.

Then we might as well say, alcohol and rec drugs, cigarettes, aspirin, statins, viagra are all placebo.

Must disagree.

YMMV.

IMHO.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Also, yes, there are tests, many with controls where the placebo effect is observed.

And, everyone is unique. A med can work for one group of people and not another.

You must educate yourself, make an informed decision, weigh risk/benefit. And as I always say a med is only "one tool in my toolbox" of functioning. Being social, exercise, eating properly, sleeping properly, yoga, living in the present, etc. As many have said, they have a chair -- four legs -- one may be for them, medicine, therapy, music, and exercise. The chair will fall over without one chair.

In re: depression, many do not respond. Many resort to ECT. If your choice is suicide or improved quality of life, there is a degree of benefit vs. risk.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

*Dreamer* said:


> Also, yes, there are tests, many with controls where the placebo effect is observed.
> 
> And, everyone is unique. A med can work for one group of people and not another.
> 
> ...


My problem is that I spent the better part of 2 years to finally get out of the non-stop anxiety that crippled me for my entire life. It was a ton of hard work and it was rarely ever pleasant and it took ages to see any improvement. Now my anxiety, social or other wise, is largely gone and I can do things I thought would be impossible.

Then there's Bob, who started off in an identical situation as me, suffered just as much as I did, but he just took X-med for his anxiety and feels as good as I do, can do everything I can, but did it in a quarter of the time and with none of the effort.

It's hard not to resent somebody who achieved what you did so much more easily.

I could say that I'm probably better off in the long run since I made important changes and decisions, but that would be rude and I should just be happy for Bob, but I'm not.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

I guess I missed the actual point of some of this, and I understand you are venting.

I don't know many people who have been through this ... bad anxiety, DP, depression, anything ... who had an "easy time" getting out of it.

There are some who respond better to meds, some who don't. Some situations are very severe, others less severe.

I only hope that everyone finds their way out of this -- I don't care how they do it.

I've been working at this for 55 years. I've come to a point where I keep singing the Roling Stones' song:
"You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you get what you need."

I'm angry at what I've lost in my life. Very angry. But I've also accomplihed a lot.
Learned about life, about myself, others.

That's life. You do the best you can. It isn't a competition.

Signed,

Certainly not Bob


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2014)

Pyrite said:


> Then there's Bob, who started off in an identical situation as me, suffered just as much as I did, but he just took X-med for his anxiety and feels as good as I do, can do everything I can, but did it in a quarter of the time and with none of the effort.


Before you judge Bob&#8230; why not see how he's going a while after he stops taking X-med&#8230; if he stops that is.


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## Jaybird (Jul 22, 2014)

Hm. To be honest there are two sides to any coin. I absolutely agree though. I've been doing a bit of digging and while we have made leaps and bounds in psychology over the past hundred years, we seem to know very little. The majority of the fault in treatment of psychologic issues, in regards to mental and emotional disturbances, is that it is approached with the same linear mindset that the rest of the medical field is approached. It will vary depending on the health provider, some are a bit more liberal minded in their approach, but I have met with a few older Psychs who seem to swear up and down on the DSM III they grew up with. To the latter of those two, it often feels like being treated for a broken leg. They prod at it, take appropriate observational precautions and then place the limb in a cast and tell you to "keep off of it for a while". After a few months, they remove the cast and, in some cases, will provide physical therapy to help strengthen the leg. But where the mind is concerned, take two people of the same height, weight, and from the same walks of life. Hit them in the same spot with the same hammer and one might come in with a broken leg while the other one has only developed a serious cold. It's a strange metaphor but that's kind of how I feel about it. Some meds won't help, but they are the cast they put us into. So we are expected to wait around and hope that it will help us "heal". These can have adverse effects and even worsen symptoms. But in the medical field, most providers are too stubborn to admit they might be wrong.

Personally, and I have discussed this with my best friend who suffers from Major Depression, I feel as though the word "cure" has a stigma around which doesn't quite mesh with mental health because I don't think there is anything wrong with us, there is no reason to suppress these little eccentricities. There is a reason to learn how to better adapt to life with them, when these symptoms interfere with our lives. the first reaction is to, at any cost, make those symptoms go away. We have a sickness, and we are desperate to have it removed so our lives will be better. Instant gratification is not fulfillment. If pills make someone happy, then I am glad for them. If someone suffers from any variety of mental sickness, then I hope that they never feel as though they are alone. Whether someone's sense of purpose and balance comes from placebo effects or faith in something we can't comprehend is their concern alone. Life isn't about solutions, we simply try on different things for size. If pills don't work, then we keep trying other solutions. Yet, remain mindful of the fact that even though they didn't work for us, that does not mean they do not work.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

> Personally, and I have discussed this with my best friend who suffers from Major Depression, I feel as though the word "cure" has a stigma around which doesn't quite mesh with mental health because I don't think there is anything wrong with us, there is no reason to suppress these little eccentricities. There is a reason to learn how to better adapt to life with them, when these symptoms interfere with our lives. the first reaction is to, at any cost, make those symptoms go away. We have a sickness, and we are desperate to have it removed so our lives will be better. Instant gratification is not fulfillment. If pills make someone happy, then I am glad for them. If someone suffers from any variety of mental sickness, then I hope that they never feel as though they are alone. Whether someone's sense of purpose and balance comes from placebo effects or faith in something we can't comprehend is their concern alone. Life isn't about solutions, we simply try on different things for size. If pills don't work, then we keep trying other solutions. Yet, remain mindful of the fact that even though they didn't work for us, that does not mean they do not work.


Jaybird,

I have to disagree completely with this. I have worked for some 30+ years as a mental health advocate and have met all sorts of individuals with mental illness.

These are not "states of mind" or eccentricities, they are medical/neurological disorders. No mental illness has a "cure" either. One is usually seen as "recovering" or "in remission" ... no doctor can promise a "cure."

The stigma is that so many mentally healthy people believe you can "pull yourself by the bootstraps" that those with a mental illness are stigmatized. The stigam PREVENTS individuals from seeking help.

The end result, increasing illness, suicide, homelessness, loss of a job, loss of a social life.

Check out:

The National Alliance on Mental Illness

Bring Change 2 Mind

Active Minds

It is especially horrible that young people are ashamed to seek help and with early intervention would have a far better outcome.

It is also true that many doctors of different ages have a different approach to mental illness. And there is still a huge split between those with a psychonalytic background and those with a more medical approach. We need a holistic approach. The tide is turning towards that. Slowly.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2014)

Jaybird.. I know it seems like there hasn't been much progress in treatment for DPD over the years but there are great therapists out there who do successfully treat the dissociative disorders . It's really a case of, you have to find them. There's not a lot, but they're out there.

I've spent a lot of time with a couple of excellent therapists, both full of confidence and with plenty of experience, and both said they can work well with dissociative patients..

Treating dissociative people is not your average therapy and one of the biggest problems people will face, is a therapist who doesn't know what they're doing and they make most likely make you feel worse. It's as simple as that. If you see someone not competent, you'll probably go backwards.

If anyone is looking for a therapist.. ask questions before you start. Ask them about their experience treating dissociative people. If they have none, it might be a very good idea to move on and look elsewhere. Keep looking. Make lots of phone calls, send emails.. eventually you'll find someone. Don't settle for someone who is untrained. Why should you? You wouldn't see a back specialist for an ingrown toenail would you?

I'd also be very wary talking to GP's about dissociative experiences. Most likely, they will have had very little to no training at all and therefore they are NOT qualified to start handing out medication or advice. Besides, not many GP's are therapists, and with such limited time for their appointments they don't have time to carefully listen and make educated judgements. GP's are good for referrals to therapists, that's about all when it comes to this stuff&#8230;

Therapy is the main key to recovery from this disorder. Find a good one.


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