# Paint fumes the culprit?



## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

I've been re-examining something in my past that I've never given much thought to before.

What prompted this latest round of hindsight was my recent posting in the art thread in the 'That's Life' section of some pen and ink drawings I did in my late teens/early twenties.

The textural effects in this series of drawings were achieved with an airbrush.

But before I ever had a real airbrush, I was producing the same effects in my drawings with the 'poor man's' version--spray krylon.

I first began doing this at the age of fifteen, and did so through the age of seventeen.

I always performed this procedure out in the garage, always with the garage door closed, and with zero ventilation (I was always so eager to complete these drawings that I never gave such matters any real consideration).

Which meant I had to be catching the full brunt of the fumes (no better, really, than paint sniffing. Though I never felt hooked on the fumes).

What's significant about it is that this was the exact same time period in my life during which the full time dp/dr manifested.

So I'm left wondering: could this have been the ultimate cause of it? (All the other myriad theories I've had through the years be damned?)

In my efforts at creativity, did I inadvertently sabotage any possibility of ever being a full-time artist? (Or a full-time _anything_, for that matter?)

Does this sound far-fetched?

e


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

> Does this sound far-fetched?


It sounds like parental indifference might have affected your personality and your psychology more than a few fumes, especially if you didn't suffer extensive respiratory symptoms at the time.

If you were drawing those subjects at the time, that's further evidence to me that your brain was already headed in a certain direction and the fumes were definitely not the cause.

Looks like you have considerable talent! 8)


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

Sojourner said:


> It sounds like parental indifference might have affected your personality and your psychology more than a few fumes, especially if you didn't suffer extensive respiratory symptoms at the time.
> 
> If you were drawing those subjects at the time, that's further evidence to me that your brain was already headed in a certain direction and the fumes were definitely not the cause.


What I'm talking about basically is a form of unwitting inhalent-abuse.

In those days, to me that meant someone planting their face into a plastic baggy full of fresh paint or glue, and breathing in deeply.

I wasn't doing any such thing myself, and I felt perfectly safe being in an enclosed space with all those vapors in the air around me.

I was not conscious of any potential harm, and whenever I became aware of the dp/dr, I made no connection whatever between that and the paint fume inhalation (only in the past few days did this idea pop into my head, in fact).

Never have had any respiratory issues to speak of.

e


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Hi E.,

I would like to say that I have wondered if the following did not start my little ordeal :? ...

paint fumes
new carpet
insulation

In reality I think an allergic reaction to sulfites started my first episode. Put it this way, I had the allergic reaction, big fear, biG DR. The carpet had also just been laid.

Insulation and paint fumes still send me into orbit and cause my DR to worsen.

I believe it could have catapulted you quite easily.

Course then...I ain't no scientist. Just my own personal two cents worth. :wink:

t*


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## jake (Jul 12, 2005)

Hey Enigma, I havent seen anybody's art yet, I'll try to check it out. Sometimes Webtv lets me see things other times not, since it is not a computer per-se. Anyway, speaking as one of the ones who DID have their face stuffed in a terrycloth rag soaked in lighter fluid back in the day, I didn't get DP from it, at the time or as far as I know any other time. As we are close to the same age sorta, I know you're a youngster though yet, still closer to 40 than I am anymore! Anyway You probably remember that house painters (like my Dad) had to mix colors and the paint was not only lead based, lots of oils, there was also lots of clean up with Turpentine and...well, paint remover, for the cans and brushes. My Dad died of respiratory failure from smoking and also all the many many years of the lead and fumes. He was sort of a depressed guy at times but I never got a sense he was DP, but who knows? I know I got a short lived high from lighter fluid, and felt goofy and metallic taste in mouth, but I would be hard presssed to say I got Dp'd. I know you got it around that time frame in life so anything is possible, but I wouldn't spend lotsa time worrying on this.


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

Doubt it.

Unless mine is caused by being around motocross bikes and hence solvents, petrol, and 2 stroke fumes most Saturdays since I was little (The thought has never crossed even my mind and that's something)


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## Guest (Aug 2, 2005)

jake said:


> Webtv


OFF TOPIC



Not WebTV. Can you stretch to a proper PC? Hell, if you're in the UK, I'll send you one (Having a clearout of perfectly useable but outdated PC's)


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

I honestly doubt it.

I really can't see some paint fumes being responsible for lasting neurological damage, it doesn't work like that in my experience. It's especially unlikely given the fact that you yourself have mentioned that you've been able to be "symptom free" for a few seconds if you concentrate. If it were physical damage, that wouldn't make a shade of difference.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

Monkeydust said:


> It's especially unlikely given the fact that you yourself have mentioned that you've been able to be "symptom free" for a few seconds if you concentrate. If it were physical damage, that wouldn't make a shade of difference.


You mean this by itself could indicate no brain damage? (At least none that could lead to irreversible DP?)

Homeskooled, if you read this, could you possibly concur with that? (If indeed that _is_ correct).

Would make me feel a helluva lot better.

e


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

Yeah, that's what I mean.

If it was physical brain damage, it would be unlikely enough to have brief moments of normality, but what clinches the matter is that you seem to have brought these on by deliberate action - in other words, something you were thinking affected the way you felt. This would not happen if it was physical damage.


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Well...take a crayon and color me wrong. :?


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

Monkeydust said:


> Yeah, that's what I mean.
> 
> If it was physical brain damage, it would be unlikely enough to have brief moments of normality, but what clinches the matter is that you seem to have brought these on by deliberate action - in other words, something you were thinking affected the way you felt. This would not happen if it was physical damage.


Perhaps, but on the other hand I have read/heard many accounts of people overcoming brain damage through sheer effort, with this effort resulting in other parts of the brain taking over the functions of the damaged part/s, as well as laying down new neural circuitry that bypasses the damaged portion/s.

This is how I've been picturing it in my mind whenever performing this mental exercise, not that I couldn't be totally incorrect (I just have this penchant for always imagining the worst, so when I go through the steps that lead to these brief instances of realness, that's what I see myself working against).

e


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

hi enigma,

in my opinion, your theory could be a definate possible cause of your dp/dr.

The reason i say this, is because little things can set off my symptoms. Well, i have schizophrenia, so maybe it's different, but for example, If i drink coffee, my symptoms will flair up. I'll start hallucinating and having dp and getting paranoid. If i go more than 13 or 14 hours without at least getting a nap, same thing happens. 
A couple months ago, i had a bad cold and was coughing, so i took some cough syrup. I ended up back in the psychiatric ward about 5 hours later because of this. I found out that it was some ingrediant in the cough syrup (dextromethorphin) which peopl with psychotic disorders should not use, because it can bring on or increase the psychosis.

I;m no scientist, but it seems very likely that if you inhale enough paint fumes, it could do very similar damage that any other drug can do. paint fumes are pretty much a poison. Obviosly everyone knows not to drink paint...that could kill you. So i'm not at all surprised if inhaling enough of the fumes overtime could do some damage too. Especially in a garage with no ventalation.

It's also possible that you were already predisposed to dp/dr and the fumes you inhaled fueled up your symptoms.

-becka


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I doubt it's as simplistic as that E, personally. But I suppose you never know. But besides, Terri* has an obsession with paint fumes, so don't worry about her. :wink:


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## Captain_K (Aug 22, 2004)

In the past I have used spray glue(Spray Mount?) and when I have used it for a period of time, say 3o minutes, it definitely DID put me in the world of Derealization, without a doubt.

Also back in the dark ages before computer graphics when commercial atrists did layouts manually using rubber cement, it was known that prolonged, repeated exposure to rubber cement(which I think contains benzene) could cause neurological damage such as numbness and other symptoms which I don't recall at this time. Many companies switched over to using hot wax instead of rubber cement.

Sincerely,
Captain K


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

I lived in a basement growing up, with lots of exposed insulation in close proximity to where I did my homework, watched TV, slept, etc. Maybe that could be the reason for the DP/DR coming on when I was 19? What do you guys think?


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