# stages of psychosis?



## yogurt (Jun 16, 2006)

I've just spent about an hour lurking around on the boards and reading different posts. The constant "you wouldn't know it if you were going crazy" argument has been pretty comforting, but it's made me worry... are there different stages? Take schizophrenia for example, does it gradually happen where someone knows something isn't quite right for years and years before it all becomes shattered?

I've never seen a psychiatrist, but I'm pretty sure I have DP/DR from my problems with anxiety/obsessive thinking. I found a lot of comfort around this time last year from this board because I felt like I had finally figured out what was wrong with me (I didn't consider that I had DP/DR or anxiety problems before, but I realized that I do). However, a year later (and a couple of existentialism classes later in college, I might add), I've been finding less comfort recently.

Before, things would just seem hazy, but I started looking into the nature of the haziness and would panic... and each time I feel like psychosis is just around the corner, which I know is a common feeling.

Anyway, I'm being longwinded... but a huge question that's on my mind is: do people with schizophrenia battle for their sanity for a while before it really kicks in? I get scared that maybe I don't JUST have DP/DR and anxiety, but I'm actually going through an early stage of schizophrenia. It's worth noting that I only get really panicked when I will myself to self-monitor (which is usually at night) and question my sanity. I'll think and think and start to wonder things like "Is this an auditory hallucination, or am I just paying extra attention to the thoughts in my head right now?" But maybe auditory hallucinations start off that way? When one begins to pay close attention to one's own thoughts? I feel like I'm good at observing reality and how things should be, but what if some part of my regular thinking is messed up and I don't know it because I'm affected?

My 21st birthday is in a month (and I know that this is the prime time for schizophrenia), I used to use marijuana and had many paranoid experiences semi-frequently when I was 18, and I know someone who completely lost himself due to psychosis my freshman year of college. So I'm just scared. I never really got the chance to talk to that guy about the nature of his illness. But to everyone out there... are there different stages of schizophrenia? Is it possibly that my anxious thinking DP/DR is just a precursor to an eventual onset? Or are schizophrenics completely unaware of what is happening to them in that aspect?


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Who cares...give into madness that's what I say!


----------



## yogurt (Jun 16, 2006)

Excuse my paranoid thinking right now, but do you mean that it sounds like I'm going crazy and that I should succumb to it? :?

I realize that it's an irrational thought and you might just be trying to help calm me down by suggestion that I stop trying to worry/fight whatever.

Ah, I feel like I have to explain myself way too much on a psychological board so that I don't come off as being nuts 8)


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

Shiny... words of advise: Do not go "nuts" = ^^^ . Please seek professional help if you can afford it (I didn't read your whole post because i'm tired and dyslexic). If you're from the UK you'll be able to get support for free.


----------



## yogurt (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm just basically wondering if there's a stage of schizophrenia that is similar to DP/DR or if people suffering it from really don't realize it the WHOLE way through. (I just feel the need to question the common comfort "Crazy people don't realize that they're crazy" advice here).

There's the cliffs notes version


----------



## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

Your best bet is to seach for it on the board because it's well talked about:

Just type schizophrenia into the seach bar and become overwhelmed with the amount of posts on it.

You're not crazy... I've heard that due to the fact that you're asking whether you're schizophrenia or not means you're not.


----------



## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Shiny, I too have battled the obsessive "I am becomming schizo" fear. I still do a little bit, but i have gotten much better with that obsession. Searching the internet for information on it is a TERRIBLE idea. I fell into that trap. It is a downward spiral of self doubt and hypochondia.

Here is the bad news:

There is a stage a schizophrenic goes through called the prodrome which happens before a psychotic break. The symtoms include anxiety, depression, bizzare thoughts, magical thinking, and yes, dp/dr. Basically 95% of the people on this board could fit the prodromal phase of schizophrenia. However, only a very very small minority of us will ever actually have a full psychotic break.

And the good news:

Your post was well written, organized, and you seem very coherent. No one on the brink of psychosis would be able to put there thoughts together like that. The very fact that you are so in touch with your thoughts and reality shows there is no way you are sz.

even if you were schizo...
schizophrenia is highly treatable. Only a small portion of people with schizophrenia endure a lifetime of suffering.

So please stop worrying.


----------



## MidnightRambler (May 5, 2007)

I don't want to freak you out, but there is usually a "prodromal" phase of schizophrenia, where the person knows that something isn't right. I've heard that the prodrome can last for just days, or several months... if you've had DP for like 10 months or more though I wouldn't be too concerned, and even if you've had it for less time chances are you're just overanalyzing things.

A great book to read about schizophrenia is "The Eden Express" by Mark Vonnegut. He took mescaline and developed schizophrenia 10 days later (fully recovered, now a doctor at Harvard in Boston, MA). Slow start, and doesn't answer too much in the way of prodromal symptoms but it is a really fantastic story that adds a little humor to going insane and describes the whole experience in great detail.


----------



## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Shiny said:


> I'll think and think and start to wonder things like "Is this an auditory hallucination, or am I just paying extra attention to the thoughts in my head right now?" But maybe auditory hallucinations start off that way? When one begins to pay close attention to one's own thoughts? I feel like I'm good at observing reality and how things should be, but what if some part of my regular thinking is messed up and I don't know it because I'm affected?


I have thought all of these things.

One time last winter, before i did any research and knew about any of this, i tried to check myself into a state mental hospital because i thought i was loosing it. The intake psychiatrist who interviewed me was a very intelligent experienced doctor. I told him about how I was so worried things were hallucinations. For example, if i heard someone talking outside my house i would have to go check and make sure it was really a person and not an auditory hallucination. Bottom line, the doctor told me he was 100% sure i did not need to be admitted, and that my problems were all rooted in anxiety, not psychosis.

What i did find out i have is OCD, which you most likely could be diagnosed as also.


----------



## yogurt (Jun 16, 2006)

I've been experiencing DP as I know it for a little over a year, but I've been experiencing it in non-self-diagnosed form for about 2.

Actually, midnightrambler, I did a search and found a thread that you made about internal voices. That helped to calm me down a little bit more because I was so worried that they would be classified as hallucinations, or are the prodrome phase of auditory hallucinations. I experience that too, especially at night. The more I think about it, the more I notice it. I'll be lying down and all of a sudden, a song that I'd been listening to during the day will come to me in little snippets, for example. That's pretty much the only time that stuff comes to me against my will, but when I'm in a worrisome state of mind like I was when I made my first post, I'll be paying extra attention to my internal dialog and I'll start to get nervous if something comes in a little bit _too_ clear. :lol:

None of the internal dialog is ever commanding or scary or out of control, but I guess I'm just worried that sudden moments of lucidity in thought (I guess you could call it) is a prodromal symptom of schizophrenia. :? I've only been worried about this since Monday, and only after I had a slight panic attack due to anxiety at a grocery store. When I got home, I went online to research mental illness, only to come across the mention of "auditory hallucinations"... and I've been afraid of that ever since. So I guess I'm just being really obsessive. And I always have... I remember being 7 or 8 and reading one of my mom's old medical books from college and worrying that I'd get everything in the book. teehee


----------



## yogurt (Jun 16, 2006)

oops... double posted. looks like I can't delete this. so I'll fill in this gap with a story of what just happened:

I was looking around on the Internets and out of the corner of my eye, I noticed that a picture seemed to jump forward. I was like "Oh noooo, hallucination!", but it turns out it was just an animated GIF.


----------



## MidnightRambler (May 5, 2007)

Yeah brain chatter was scary at first but I'm used to it by now... and thankfully it only happens at night.

And you're lucky it was only an animated image... I actually do get stuff like that... the patterns on my carpet and tapestry move and swirl if I fixate on them, and I get annoying illusions in my peripheral vision.


----------



## closetome (Nov 16, 2006)

Trust me.....u woudn't be on the verge of having a schizophrenic episode if ur typing on this sit.......chilllllllll winston...........nothing to do but relax init blood


----------



## rlf (Nov 5, 2005)

Before I got dp/dr I thought I could never go crazy. Now I see how it could happen. Very scary.

By the way it is refreshing to read a post by someone who cares about the details of grammar, spelling, and sentence structure. I think a lot of people here think it's cool to write gobbly-****.


----------



## Synapse (Aug 15, 2004)

Another symptom from someone who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia is denial - you deny you have the illness you have been officially diagnosed with.

During a relapse I had a couple of years ago it was people's comments on boards like this that attracted me and made my psychosis worse so to speak.

You'll find that once you have accepted your diagnosis be it dp, depression, schizophenia, you'll hang around these boards less and less.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

It is tiresome to repeat this, but schizophrenia is a real disorder involving many areas of functioning. Go to the Merck Manual online to find out about it.

I personally know several people with schizoprhenia who with meds, CBT, therapy, can function at various levels. They have relapses, remissions, etc. They can also have insight -- for example I was at a meeting where one man heard voices telling him to put his hand in the garbage disposal.

He knew this wasn't logical and ignored the voices as best he could.

To the best of my understanding there is no cure for schizophrenia. There are many different types. Some people are VERY high functioning, others not so and need full-time care. (Or are homeless, etc.)

*I hate the word "schizo" -- schizophrenia is a MEDICAL ILLNESS, a BRAIN DISORDER.*

See below for a brief summary. Though no one can be diagnosed over the internet, it is unlikely that people here w/DP/DR have prodromal schizophrenia. See the criteria for onset.

SOME with schizophrenia may HAVE DP/DR, but many I've spoken with don't know what it is. Some get it as the result of experimenting with medications.

Synapse also made a good point
---------------------------------------------
Sorry, I just get angry when people don't understand mental illness, when they themselves have family members who are ill, or who are experiencing another form of illness such as extreme anxiety, OCD, etc. I have had DP/DR for most of my 48 years of life. I am NOT schizophrenic. I'd say my Dx is GAD, Panic, depression, which were never treated properly and made worse by a sick home enviornment.
--------------------------------------------

*From the Merck Manual of Medical Disorders*

(also you must be careful not to misread words. "loss of contact with reality" in schizophrenia is not OUR definition in DP/DR.) etc.

http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec15/ch202/c ... ch202e-644

"Schizophrenia is characterized by psychosis (loss of contact with reality), hallucinations (false perceptions), delusions (false beliefs), disorganized speech and behavior, flattened affect (restricted range of emotions), cognitive deficits (impaired reasoning and problem solving), and occupational and social dysfunction."

*The cause is unknown, but evidence for a genetic component is strong. Symptoms usually begin in adolescence or early adulthood. One or more episodes of symptoms must last ? 6 mo before the diagnosis is made. Treatment consists of drug therapy, psychotherapy, and rehabilitation.*

Worldwide, the prevalence of schizophrenia is about 1%. The rate is comparable among men and women and relatively constant cross-culturally.

.............

*Although its specific cause is unknown, schizophrenia has a biologic basis, as evidenced by alterations in brain structure, such as enlarged cerebral ventricles and decreased size of the anterior hippocampus and other brain regions, and on changes in neurotransmitters, especially involving altered activity of dopamine and glutamate.*

Some experts suggest that schizophrenia occurs in people with neurodevelopmental vulnerabilities and that the onset, remission, and recurrence of symptoms are the result of interactions between these enduring vulnerabilities and environmental stressors.

*Generally, symptoms are categorized as positive, disorganized, negative, and cognitive. Positive symptoms are characterized by an excess or distortion of normal functions; negative symptoms, by diminution or loss of normal functions. Disorganized symptoms include thought disorder and bizarre behavior. Cognitive symptoms are deficits in information processing and problem solving. A person may have symptoms from one or all categories."*

...description goes on for pages. Various types of schizophrenia including hebephrenic, catatonic, etc....
.................

Very simplistic explanation here.

Many here, such as myself when I was younger OBSESS (you don't have OCD you OBSESS) in a hypochondriacal way about all sorts of illnesses. And there is gross misinterpretation about what it is to be seriously mentally ill and suffer from psychotic symptoms.

Also, as noted, during a serious phase -- a break -- the individual is not able to distinguish what is going on (this is very simplistic), but a schizophrenic, during a remission or better period is capable of understanding that strange voices, or paranoid ideation is not logical and can ignore it.

Others are seriously impaired.

There is no cure.

This is painful for me, as one person I know w/schizophrenia, who is very creative and bright has it, someone I care for very much.

D


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Compare with:

*Clinical Definition of Depersonalization Disorder 
DSM-IV?, American Psychiatric Association, 1994*

"Persistent or recurrent episodes of feeling detached from,
and as if one is an outside observer of, one's mental
processes or body (e.g. feeling like one is in a dream.)

*During the Depersonalization experience, reality testing
remains intact. -- Dreamer's note, this is NOT the case in
schizophrenia or a psychotic episode*

The Depersonalization causes clinically significant distress or 
impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas 
of functioning.

The Depersonalization experience does not occur exclusively
during the course of another mental disorder, such as
Schizophrenia, Panic Disorder, Acute Distress Disorder, and
is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance
(e.g. a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical
condition (e.g. temporal lobe epilepsy)."

--------------------------------------------------------------

DP/DR feels HORRENDOUS. I've been there, and I live with it (much improved, but still seriously affected by it, 24/7)..... but I KNOW I SHOULDN'T BE FEELING THIS WAY.

An individual in the depths of a serious schizophrenic break doesn't know they are ill. But when more lucid, they can understand something is wrong, but have difficulty controlling the thoughts and other symptoms. Some can barely control them at all, and don't realize they are ill.

Friends I have who are schizophrenic -- many you would never know they are. Others it is obvious; when they talk they make no sense, they are hearing voices HEARING THEM INSIDE THEIR HEADS -- REAL SOUNDS. They think people are looking at them. They can distrust you, think you are lying, etc.

When someone feels better, they realize they were sick. They must be careful to stay on meds, nutrition, exercise, stay stress free. Some are extremely successful, others severely limited.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Shiny said:


> Excuse my paranoid thinking right now, but do you mean that it sounds like I'm going crazy and that I should succumb to it? :?


I'm no authority on mental health but I honestly think that: either you are going mad or you are not...whichever way, what control do you have? The only control you have is to not judge yourself by it and get on with life regardless.

That sounds scary perhaps but for as long as you define yourself by your mental health you are in fear of not being good enough.

I had an experience which I knew later could not have been real. In in end I wrote it off as a day-dream. So I can safely say I am a little mad....but who cares. I try and treat people and myself well (try being the operative word). I'd rather judge myself by how much I hurt/care for people than whether I share the same sort of mental life as the rest of the population. Perhaps my attitude (not caring for social norms) is a sign of madness....that's what I notice also about mental health literature. If you are a loner, or you prefere to do religious things instead of "going out bingeing"...or if you have beliefs which aren't the standard norm...you are considered mad.

So I figure that something is mad about the people writing these guidelines in the first place...since they are so sure of themselves and what constitutes "reality". Who has the final say on how people should thing, speak or act? If you hurt someone, for sure, that is wrong, but if you are a British Hindu....isn't that a right?

I hate psychiatrists! I hate anyone who thinks I don't have a right to be what I am....i came into this world the same as anyone else. Put me in prison if I do something wrong, but let me have a say over my own mind and existance!


----------

