# Example of vision HPPD issue



## BlueTank (Jun 2, 2010)

I have not been around much lately. lots going on. But i wanted to paste this video and point out a section that actually shows a pretty good example of my f'ing HPPD.






*Second 23 to second 34*. Check that section out. See the white lagging ehind stuff. especially on the darker parts such as the back of his hair on the light background. Thats what I get. A grey after image that traces behind stuff. This is pretty close to what i see, especially in my peripheral if i am looking beyond the thing that is moving.

also this video is hilarious.


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## Brando2600 (Apr 22, 2010)

How often do you experience it?


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

BlueTank said:


> I have not been around much lately. lots going on. But i wanted to paste this video and point out a section that actually shows a pretty good example of my f'ing HPPD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great to hear from you again.

It is familiar to me but it isn't exaggerated like on this video. Artists use this technique in drawing. Apparently the brain does too. It is used for edge detection and contrast enhancement. Does it linger this long with you or does the white gray last even longer?

*especially in my peripheral*

Do you get it in your central vision as well? (The brain has one processing system for central vision and a completely different processing system for peripheral vision)


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2010)

Now see, this is something I cannot connect with on any level. Surprises me. But I am not drug induced DP/DR. I never have this sort of visual problem. This absolutely 100% is neurological. There is no doubt in my mind. What's happening is something wrong in the brain, the visual cortex. There can be no other logical explanation for it. Yes, the hallucination is persisting. Whatever was supposed to pass didn't. A "switch got kicked on" and it won't turn off.

Wow. I would really hate that.

Neat example though. I really try to understand and can't.

Edit: and as Visual Dude says, there are many areas of the brain involved. IDK, if this doesn't say "neurological" I don't know what does. And then I have heard of others such as myself with no drug-induced DP/DR describe similar symptoms. But why don't I have them?

I have a sense of "fragmentation" of a view of something, especially when I'm outdoors, sunny day, a vast expanse such as the ocean, a lake, from a mountain, etc. I feel I "can't take it all in" and it is flat and fake looking, and something is "jumbled" in my head. But it isn't my VISION, or what I see, it is a "physical sensation."

Very strange.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> Now see, this is something I cannot connect with on any level. Surprises me. But I am not drug induced DP/DR. I never have this sort of visual problem. This absolutely 100% is neurological. There is no doubt in my mind. What's happening is something wrong in the brain, the visual cortex. There can be no other logical explanation for it. Yes, the hallucination is persisting. Whatever was supposed to pass didn't. A "switch got kicked on" and it won't turn off.
> 
> Wow. I would really hate that.
> 
> ...


Praise to Dreamer for this Post!

Many on this site have visual symptoms. Visual snow is common. And many healthy, non-DP/DR people have visual symptoms.

BUT VISUAL DISTORTIONS ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF PROPER NEUROLOGICAL FUNCTION. Yes there is a bell curve to define what is normal. But ideal is the central line. http://classes.kumc.edu/sah/resources/sensory_processing/learning_opportunities/sensory_profile/bell_curve.htm

Unless there is a very serious underlining medical problem (cancer, autoimmune, etc) these problems are not life threatening - just annoying or, for some, disabling.

If such symptoms persist, it is wise to seek medical help. Because diagnosing and treating these problems is not well defined yet, it can take time to get help. But please don't deny yourself the resource.


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## BlueTank (Jun 2, 2010)

To reply to some of you guys.

1. It is there all the time, but depends on whats going on. Lighting situations, contrast, motion, proportion, and sometimes lighting types effect things.

2. Yes it is exaggerated, which helps demonstrate. If i sat in the room and talked to this guy it wouldn't look this bad most of the time. Realy its at its worse if the background is black and there is (smaller) brightness moving around it. so for instance if he is pale or wearing a white hat and moving around over a black background.

3. Strangely even though its there all the time I dont' seem to see it in movies or video games!!! i've looked.. i've tried to notice. But I can make it happen in real life all the time. I can go over to my black couch and wave my hand over the top of it and see a grey haze following behind it.

4. I am not drug-induced DP/DR. I don't know what caused it. Unless Hydrocodone (not only not abused, but sub-reccomended dose taken) caused it for the Swine Flu which may have helped cause it.
I don't know exactly what cause my DP/DR but its somewhere in an array of Genetics, Stress, Flu, Hydrocodone, Metal Concert (pushed around).

Dreamer, I am totaly open to the idea that I have caused some sort of damage to my visual cortex. I've had brain scans that have shown nothing. They say i'm totaly fine. Also this visual stuff changes (woresens) with DP/DR and stress and being tired and all that. Its gotten worse (with no real physical interaction to cause so) since DP first started. So I think its related, especially since others in my family have similar things.... They all talk about the "day their vision changed" and how they all have light sensitivity and after images

I personally believe that this effect I get IS the after images. its just in motion. knowing what i know about cameras and exposure and blah blah i believe a lot of it is just the sensitivity in motion. Not 100% sure.

Some can relate to this and some can't. Some did a lot of drugs, and some havent done any.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

It's weird to know of how many different weird ways you can see the world, lol. I don't know how others explain DR but I always saw it as "seeing weird", I mean as a *visual* disturbnace. I saw the world as flat, very far away, behind some glass or so. Like you see the world blurry in a way, though you know blurry is not the right word for it. The word weird fits best. I remember that after a while with DR, I thought something is very wrong with my eyes. I went to the ophthalmologist that said that everything is ok with my eyes but maybe glasses can help me (I have a tiny Rx). So I used glasses for some time but still saw the world the same way so I decided to give up the glasses.

Anyway, despite the weirdness of my vision back then, I don't think I ever had HPPD, and surely the thing in this vid.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

This looks to me what is usually called 'halos'. I have these. They kind of make an object seems like it's giving off a glow. A common symptom of HPPD.


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## Brando2600 (Apr 22, 2010)

BlueTank said:


> 4. I am not drug-induced DP/DR.


Are you saying that your HPPD wasn't drug induced either?


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

BlueTank said:


> To reply to some of you guys.
> 
> 1. It is there all the time, but depends on whats going on. Lighting situations, contrast, motion, proportion, and sometimes lighting types effect things.
> 
> ...


Again, thanks for your posts - we realize you are busy.

*Strangely even though its there all the time I dont' seem to see it in movies or video games!!!*

How is this effect if you close one eye?

*Hydrocodone*

Hydrocodone is an opioid. And opioid receptors are strongly associated with dopamine and GABA (my two 'heros'). Perhaps combined with the stresses at the time it kicked in the familial genetic weakness. Have you tried GABA supplementation? (Sorry, can't remember if already asked this of you). Opioids are helpful for my DR but have a 'drop-off' problem similar to Valium and alcohol. I use Hydrocodone specifically for occasional migraines - as no other med works for me.

*I personally believe that this effect I get IS the after images.*

Was thinking a similar to this.

Its funny, but while my DR presents mainly visual, even when my eyes are closed I still feel this same disorientation/drunkenness. Do you still feel 'odd' even when your eyes are shut?


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2010)

Wow, interesting thread and comments all around.

Just brief as I'm in a rush darnit.

Visual Dude you said:

```
Its funny, but while my DR presents mainly visual, even when my eyes are closed I still feel this same disorientation/drunkenness. Do you still feel ‘odd’ even when your eyes are shut?
```
This is KEY. This is not vision per se, but something with "perception" ... DP and DR as I figure it. The one thing I know is people BORN BLIND experience deja vu which is a disturbing sensation to them and they will seek help for it. Though it translates as "already seen" they FEEL it.

Everdream I feel the same way. For me, DR -- things are dimmer, flat, not three dimensional. This is much worse outdoors. And even worse if it is sunny outdoors. (More input to process?). And when as a kid I first felt DP/DR (and for DP -- one big example, is, right now, my arms don't really feel attached to me while I type. It just "is" -- I'm "disconnected from my BODY" that way. And right now, I am not anxious at all. Zero anxiety. No existential thinking, etc.

Finally, Blue, I really like what you posted. Fascinating. But as someone else said, if you say HPPD, that does mean Hallucinogen Persisting Perceptual Disorder, which is caused by a hallucinogen.

I now forgot what drug was mentioned, but in your situation have no clue what caused this particular visual problem.

As someone else said though, which I feel damned lucky about, is that I guess some non drug-induced DP people to have what you have demonstrated here. It's also interesting that you don't experience this looking at "virtual" images -- film/video. Go figure.

But I speak for myself re: I have NEVER in my entire life had even one hit on a joint. The only rec drug I've had is alcohol -- first a glass of wine at 16 which made my DP HORRIBLE. So I rarely drink. The only medications have been regular meds of childhood, and I have had surgery with anesthesia, etc. I see no connection with me to any DRUG -- rec or otherwise -- causing symptoms which seem to match those of people who have had a bad pot trip.

We must be having problems with the SAME brain pathway.

When you think of DR ... vision problems ... how in the world would your vision experience serve as a "protective" fight/flight mechansim, even gone bad? THAT makes no sense.

IDK.
Very interesting.
Cheers.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2010)

Ooops, that was supposed to be a quotation, LOL.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

*Wow, interesting thread and comments all around &#8230; This is KEY. This is not vision per se, but something with "perception" ... DP and DR as I figure it. The one thing I know is people BORN BLIND experience deja vu which is a disturbing sensation to them and they will seek help for it. Though it translates as "already seen" they FEEL it.*

'To see' is very much a metaphor. Perception = sentience = emotional life. And emotions are a key to life - the very mechanism of biological memory formation and retrieval hinges on emotional response. And this feeds itself. Loss of emotion flattens memory formation, etc. It has a crippling effect.

* I'm "disconnected from my BODY" that way. And right now, I am not anxious at all. Zero anxiety. No existential thinking, etc.*

There is a huge range among the people here. Also it changes at times with an individual - numbness can be all encompassing or partial. Anxiety is not numbness.

*how in the world would your vision experience serve as a "protective" fight/flight mechansim, even gone bad ? THAT makes no sense.*

Agreed. While anxiety shifts hormones and neurotransmitters and thus 'pushes' the package (brain), more often anxiety is a symptom of the same malfunction. Also it is a natural response of something-is-wrong-here. DP/DR is disconnecting and is too reminiscent of the ultimate disconnection - death. No wonder it triggers a fear response.

*even when my eyes are closed I still feel this same disorientation/drunkenness* Just a little to add to the kettle,

While sight aberrations are my major symptom (or been too striking to ignore), there is a core perceptual problem. So DR extends beyond 'mechanical' failure to include not just other systems but emotional 'malfunction' as well. And why not - emotions are system(s).

And there is a bleed-through effect. For example, often the lower notes on a stringed instrument sound off. ~200 Hz and below. It doesn't sound good unless tuning it higher. And, naturally, this causes some notes to 'clash'. Now some days, like today, depression is elevated (big problem). And this off-tune perception extends up to middle A (440).

It doesn't matter how you tune it, it sounds wrong. How off depends on the instrument - harmonic composition. It is the harmonic content that feels off - like meat that is old and 'turning'. By nature the string always has perfect harmonic content - but there is a shift in perception. [As a side note, piano tuners have to "stretch octaves" because hearing isn't strictly linear] Prior to my vision being trashed, pitch perception was good.

Today I took 2mg hydrocodone just after my post above. Now vision is slightly better but closing my eyes is at least 50% better. Depression is lifted some but pitch perception is still dreadful. Pain is reduced and there is an increased sense of peace though insufficient to overcome all problems.

Lastly, both hydrocodone and dopamine greatly affect my pain perception. Pain perception is ultimately the responsibility of the Amygdala - a dopamine rich organ that is the heart of anxiety and the fight/flight mechanism. So for me the bulk of my brain injury problems boil down to the same few neurotransmitters. Though it is doubtful that this is the end of the story.


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## imike24 (Dec 20, 2010)

ok

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