# Harnessing neuroplasticity to defeat dissociative symptoms



## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

This is a slide from my uni lecture this week:









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I wonder if these principles of neurological change apply to internal states of being, not just behaviour. Can I think my way out of my most troubling trauma symptoms - deaffectualisation and desomatisation - by simply imagining these symptoms easing off and my body reanimating itself once more?

Well, I'm going to give it a try, and maybe it might help others here to try it too. Several times a day, imagine yourself with your former capacities again. That's how I'm doing it.

I've just stuck the slide to my fridge and wall so I remember to practice this.


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## leminaseri (Jul 1, 2020)

nothing what you think about priorly „ahh i will give it a try, maybe it will help/cure me“ will heal/solce anything. it doesnt work like this. recovery of dpdr (and all the symptoms) happens with an extreme subtle pathway of work on the right things. most people report that they didnt think about the symptoms maybe for 6 months and they catch themselves thinking about it again, and the symptoms come immediately back.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

leminaseri said:


> nothing what you think about priorly „ahh i will give it a try, maybe it will help/cure me“ will heal/solce anything. it doesnt work like this. recovery of dpdr (and all the symptoms) happens with an extreme subtle pathway of work on the right things. most people report that they didnt think about the symptoms maybe for 6 months and they catch themselves thinking about it again, and the symptoms come immediately back.


I'm not particularly focused on mine anyway. I've had them for over 6 years and I've adjusted to them, though I still would rather not feel like the living dead and I want them gone. 

I know not focusing on the symptoms works for many people with straight DP/DR, but I've got C-PTSD (the dissociative type) and it doesn't work like that for me.

I'm going to try this idea. It may work. I put it up here in case others wanted to try it too and see if it helps them. There's neuroscientific evidence that it potentially could, and it definitely can't hurt. Why dismiss possibilities out of hand?


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## leminaseri (Jul 1, 2020)

Kittymoo said:


> I'm not particularly focused on mine anyway. I've had them for over 6 years and I've adjusted to them, though I still would rather not feel like the living dead and I want them gone.
> 
> I know not focusing on the symptoms works for many people with straight DP/DR, but I've got C-PTSD (the dissociative type) and it doesn't work like that for me.
> 
> I'm going to try this idea. It may work. I put it up here in case others wanted to try it too and see if it helps them. There's neuroscientific evidence that it potentially could, and it definitely can't hurt. Why dismiss possibilities out of hand?


how can „docs“ separate between dpdr due to cptsd and „normal“ dpdr, if they not even know what dpdr is at all? i dont believe anything. my childhood is full of subtraumatic events. mobbing, bad mother, emotional neglect/abuse from me to myself and from others to myself and so on. got dpdr from drugs with age of 17recovered fully with 22 relapsed with 26. so now? did i recovered with distracting from trauma-c-ptsd based dpdr? or didnt i have any trauma at all? but yeah docs say recently „well we cant know what is trauma for who, even minor things can traumatize someone“.. this is everything nothing but a big boom bullshit


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> I'm not particularly focused on mine anyway. I've had them for over 6 years and I've adjusted to them, though I still would rather not feel like the living dead and I want them gone.
> 
> I know not focusing on the symptoms works for many people with straight DP/DR, but I've got C-PTSD (the dissociative type) and it doesn't work like that for me.
> 
> I'm going to try this idea. It may work. I put it up here in case others wanted to try it too and see if it helps them. There's neuroscientific evidence that it potentially could, and it definitely can't hurt. Why dismiss possibilities out of hand?


You say you have cptsd, do you experience nightmares, flashbacks and all that?


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

leminaseri said:


> how can „docs“ separate between dpdr due to cptsd and „normal“ dpdr, if they not even know what dpdr is at all? i dont believe anything. my childhood is full of subtraumatic events. mobbing, bad mother, emotional neglect/abuse from me to myself and from others to myself and so on. got dpdr from drugs with age of 17recovered fully with 22 relapsed with 26. so now? did i recovered with distracting from trauma-c-ptsd based dpdr? or didnt i have any trauma at all? but yeah docs say recently „well we cant know what is trauma for who, even minor things can traumatize someone“.. this is everything nothing but a big boom bullshit


I feel your frustration, I myself don't know if I am truly traumatized.. I have never had nightmares, or flashbacks or disturbances I experienced. I know that I had a very rough childhood, a mother with Borderline, with basically lots of shouting fighting, arguing between my parents and I witnessed all that, I have been bullied, terrorized by so called friends etc, I moved a lot, different continents as well. I got my middle finger tip chopped off at the age of 4, I burned me whole belly at the age of 2. And many more incidents,I guess I have cptsd then? Always been anxious, low self esteem, insecure. dp/dr came on at a very young age, and always was there in some intensity. Now I am 28, and it's the worst ever.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

leminaseri said:


> how can „docs“ separate between dpdr due to cptsd and „normal“ dpdr, if they not even know what dpdr is at all? i dont believe anything. my childhood is full of subtraumatic events. mobbing, bad mother, emotional neglect/abuse from me to myself and from others to myself and so on. got dpdr from drugs with age of 17recovered fully with 22 relapsed with 26. so now? did i recovered with distracting from trauma-c-ptsd based dpdr? or didnt i have any trauma at all? but yeah docs say recently „well we cant know what is trauma for who, even minor things can traumatize someone“.. this is everything nothing but a big boom bullshit


I'm sure many people with DPDR do have it due to trauma. I'm not trying to claim otherwise.


Aridity said:


> You say you have cptsd, do you experience nightmares, flashbacks and all that?


Nightmares yes. I don't get flashbacks and from what I've read only 20% of people with PTSD do.

I meet the criteria and have been told by 3 professionals that I have it.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> I feel your frustration, I myself don't know if I am truly traumatized.. I have never had nightmares, or flashbacks or disturbances I experienced. I know that I had a very rough childhood, a mother with Borderline, with basically lots of shouting fighting, arguing between my parents and I witnessed all that, I have been bullied, terrorized by so called friends etc, I moved a lot, different continents as well. I got my middle finger tip chopped off at the age of 4, I burned me whole belly at the age of 2. And many more incidents,I guess I have cptsd then? Always been anxious, low self esteem, insecure. dp/dr came on at a very young age, and always was there in some intensity. Now I am 28, and it's the worst ever.


Trauma manifests in multiple ways. PTSD is just one of the symptom clusters people develop. There are tons of others.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> I'm sure many people with DPDR do have it due to trauma. I'm not trying to claim otherwise.
> 
> Nightmares yes. I don't get flashbacks and from what I've read only 20% of people with PTSD do.
> 
> I meet the criteria and have been told by 3 professionals that I have it.


Then I think I also have cptsd, or at least I have transisitioned beyond that. Total zombie, with some anxiety now and then. Never had nightmares either though.. I think I am very difficult to diagnose in this state. I would definitely not qualify for for ptsd right now, because I am very numb and dissociated.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> Then I think I also have cptsd, or at least I have transisitioned beyond that. Total zombie, with some anxiety now and then. Never had nightmares either though.. I think I am very difficult to diagnose in this state. I would definitely not qualify for for ptsd right now, because I am very numb and dissociated.


I'm constantly numbed out, have dissociation and I've got a C-PTSD diagnosis. Numbness is one of the symptoms. People with PTSD often experience other dissociative symptoms too.

Anyway, there's a dissociative PTSD subtype that's more associated with complex trauma. Most people with PTSD have predominantly hyperarousal symptoms and about 30% are predominantly dissociative.

You may or may not have C-PTSD but you definitely do have trauma symptoms and a complex trauma history.

Not everyone has every symptom. If you have a certain number of them out of a cluster, then you'd qualify for a diagnosis. I don't know if they diagnose people without any re-experiencing symptoms at all, but in any case, trauma takes many forms beyond this particular symptom cluster. It's at the root of a lot of different psychological syndromes.

They're not diagnostic, but you could try taking an online PTSD test to try and get a rough idea as to whether you might have it.

It could be helpful to seek a formal or semi-formal diagnosis because that should qualify you for a certain amount of coverage for therapy each year. I don't know what the exact situation is in your country as far as that goes, but it's likely you could get some funding for treatment at least.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> I'm constantly numbed out, have dissociation and I've got a C-PTSD diagnosis. Numbness is one of the symptoms. People with PTSD often experience other dissociative symptoms too.
> 
> Anyway, there's a dissociative PTSD subtype that's more associated with complex trauma. Most people with PTSD have predominantly hyperarousal symptoms and about 30% are predominantly dissociative.
> 
> ...


I am already getting "treatment" as to how far that goes, just regular talk therapy, and EMDR CBT etc. EMDR has no effect on me as I am not able to go within or revoke any emotions or bring up any clear memories. I have been hyperaroused my entire life I think, but that has moved over to the more numb state. I have been diagnosed with PTSD a few years ago, and my therapist does suspect that as well. But she doesn't believe my dp/dr is from my traumas.. which I find weird, she thinks my dp/dr is from my hyper sensitive personality, character. Idk, it's the chicken or the egg story once again. I will be doing MDMA therapy as soon as possible if I dare.. I will be doing it on my own with a very good friend of mine. I just want to access myself.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> I am already getting "treatment" as to how far that goes, just regular talk therapy, and EMDR CBT etc. EMDR has no effect on me as I am not able to go within or revoke any emotions or bring up any clear memories. I have been hyperaroused my entire life I think, but that has moved over to the more numb state. I have been diagnosed with PTSD a few years ago, and my therapist does suspect that as well. But she doesn't believe my dp/dr is from my traumas.. which I find weird, she thinks my dp/dr is from my hyper sensitive personality, character. Idk, it's the chicken or the egg story once again. I will be doing MDMA therapy as soon as possible if I dare.. I will be doing it on my own with a very good friend of mine. I just want to access myself.


It sounds more likely that your dissociation is a trauma symptom, especially in light of your history, your other symptoms and your existing PTSD diagnosis. 

It's probably actually C-PTSD, because it's not just a single traumatic event that's triggered this, and the fact that you're chronically dissociated is suggestive of complex trauma too.

Maybe having a sensitive personality meant you were more likely to develop trauma, but I don't believe sensitivity without traumatic events can cause dissociative symptoms. I think chronic dissociation generally comes from trauma, though drugs and panic attacks can be triggers.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> It sounds more likely that your dissociation is a trauma symptom, especially in light of your history, your other symptoms and your existing PTSD diagnosis.
> 
> It's probably actually C-PTSD, because it's not just a single traumatic event that's triggered this, and the fact that you're chronically dissociated is suggestive of complex trauma too.
> 
> Maybe having a sensitive personality meant you were more likely to develop trauma, but I don't believe sensitivity without traumatic events can cause dissociative symptoms. I think chronic dissociation generally comes from trauma, though drugs and panic attacks can be triggers.


I agree, it makes the most sense. Thank you


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## Liv (Aug 11, 2021)

I think you're on the right track. I can only find relief from DP when I daydream and visualise. In my daydream I can suddenly access emotions, memories and thought patterns that I don't have in real life. I don't have the knowledge to explain how this is possible from a neurological point of view, I've simply experienced that it is. 

So, daydream away! Our minds have an amazing capacity to exist in differens shapes and forms


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

I'm noticing tiny differences a week later and I will keep trying this.


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## Trith (Dec 31, 2019)

Liv said:


> I think you're on the right track. I can only find relief from DP when I daydream and visualise. In my daydream I can suddenly access emotions, memories and thought patterns that I don't have in real life. I don't have the knowledge to explain how this is possible from a neurological point of view, I've simply experienced that it is.
> 
> So, daydream away! Our minds have an amazing capacity to exist in differens shapes and forms


That's interesting, I noticed the opposite in my case. When I had episodes with more DPDR it was usually after or during a time that was more favorable for daydreaming, like being alone for a whole weekend, free to think about what I wanted.


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## leminaseri (Jul 1, 2020)

for the whole discussion about c-ptsd:

i think harris harrington is the first one who hitted the nail when it comes to root causes of dpd. sure, he didnt researched that but from the current studies and literature he picked the right topics. disorganized attachment is the very foundation of the root causes of chronic dpd. it does overlap with borderline and other personality disorders as well, therefore it is about the learned traits in childhood some people never question or even realize that they have them. c-ptsd alone will not cause chronic depersonalization disorder. one have to integrate his personality and splitted „egos“. til now, this one is the most probably explanation when it comes to the dynamics and mechanics of dpd.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

It's funny, I'm actually learning about attachment at uni right now, but I don't think I'm disorganised. I think I'm avoidant. I wasn't always, though, just I've totally lost interest in human connection since developing these symptoms.

Also, I know most people with C-PTSD are not totally disconnected like me, but there is a significant minority who are, as many as 30%.


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## Liv (Aug 11, 2021)

Trith said:


> That's interesting, I noticed the opposite in my case. When I had episodes with more DPDR it was usually after or during a time that was more favorable for daydreaming, like being alone for a whole weekend, free to think about what I wanted.


Maybe we experience different symtoms of DP, where yours are more towards existential thoughts and horror scenarios (correct me if I'm wrong, ofc). In that case I can totally understand how daydreaming can easily spin off into something making the DP even more challenging. 

My symtoms are more towards blank mind and lack of cognition, so I try to exercise my imagination in any way I can


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## Trith (Dec 31, 2019)

Liv said:


> Maybe we experience different symtoms of DP, where yours are more towards existential thoughts and horror scenarios (correct me if I'm wrong, ofc). In that case I can totally understand how daydreaming can easily spin off into something making the DP even more challenging.
> 
> My symtoms are more towards blank mind and lack of cognition, so I try to exercise my imagination in any way I can


It was not about horror scenarios but it was naturaly going toward analyzing stuff that seemed interesting at that moment, without causing any specific emotions. But it makes sense, I have never really had blank mind I think, and it makes sense that day dreaming would go against blank mind.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Just wanting to add that I'm experiencing further small changes now that it's been two weeks.

This is something you can do for free, it takes only a little effort and so far the results are encouraging.


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