# DP and BRITISH



## greatnavad (Feb 23, 2006)

HI,

Just wondered what the SCOOBY DOO is wrong(or right) with Brits!!!

There are so many of em in DP sites all over the web. Why , it would not be wrong to say the whole DP disorder club is being dominated by populus from the ISLAND.

Now, i wonder why?
SURE, colonial people under BRITISH would swear they were COLD BLOODED aligators with little emotions.

SO , would that attribute to some of the main symtoms of DP in "NOT feeling emotional" and "lack of self " parts?

OR,
is it something about IQ and brits being the enlightened race among them all?
OR,
is it that the island is cursed with wretched gloomy weather all along the year triggering off loneliness and associated illnesses?

JUST thought it was interesting enough to merit a discussion
BTW I LOVE BRITISH for thier sense of discipline and Fair play..so no offence intended bythis


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

greatnavad said:


> BTW I LOVE BRITISH for thier sense of discipline and Fair play..so no offence intended bythis


Are you sure that you're not British? 

You spell "offence" the Brit way.


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

i personally think that alot of it has to do with the climate...... now some might say that for example canada can be very cold but canada is also a beautiful country,and although some parts of britain are very pretty, most of britain is very dark and depressing,im proud of my country so this is a non-biased point of view but i myself find that britain in the middle of winter is a very dark dull depressing place,and we do have summer but its very short lived........also the highest suicide rate can be found in sweden (correct me if im wrong)and this is put down to the fact that most of the year the country is in darkness....


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)




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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Its probably because of trying to control our emotions too much ........also its probably due to the lack of anything to do except drink 10 pints, the large amount of idiots who are usually called Sharon and Kev and spend all of their time on benefit hanging about shopping centres smoking ****, the fact that it rains every day, the lack of good looking single women, the fact that we haven't won the World Cup since 1966, Noel Edmonds, the Crazy Frog and Chico getting to no 1 in the charts, and the depressing music of Radiohead and the Smiths.....I could go on.


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## just breathe (Nov 21, 2005)

actually the eastern european countries have higher suicide rates than anywhere else and russia tops the list at 89 people per 100,000....


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Could there be a correlation between DP and terrible dental hygiene? People always make fun of the Brits for having messed up set of grills, as illustrated by Austin Powers.


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

i refuse to watch any british soap opera.... infact i only watch one soap opera and its called 'neighbours' yep i hear the chuckles,but for 30 minutes im transported to a sunny climate full of good looking girls,shallow i know but i allow myself these 30 minutes each day... eastenders coronation street the storylines are just filled with misery and pain


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## Soma (Mar 29, 2006)

Not to mention the cult of celebrity, reality TV and the high expectations of people to keep up with a constant slew of lifestyle programmes. Telling us that we are lazy and disgusting if our clothes, body shape, or our homes aren't picture perfect. I'll still end up watching Big Brother tho'--that's what us brits do best, build 'em up then knock 'em down. 
Chantelle, be warned!


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I actually blame Neighbours for a lot of my problems as I watched it every day for about 15 years and it brain washed me into thinking that life was actually like it is in the show where even the bad guys turn out nice and happy. Also for many years I was convinced Harold was Jesus after coming back from the dead after being lost at sea..... No wonder im confused about life, which leaves me nobody to blame except the damm Aussies :wink:

I like the dental theory. My teeth aren't great, maybe I should sue my dentist for psychological damage.


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## Milan (May 29, 2005)

Pablo said:


> No wonder im confused about life, which leaves me nobody to blame except the damm Aussies :wink:


Don't bag the Aussies for watching crap like neighbours :x

No one here watches that trash apart from kids in their early teens. If it wasn't for the Brits that show would have been axed after the third season. Accuracy of how well that show represents Australian lifestyle is probably about 0.25%. But, hey, if it's 30mins of escapism you get from watching it then that aint a bad thing.

I know a few Brits that live here and they love the Ozzy weather. They had to go back to England for one week to renew their visas and were absolutely dreading it. I must admit the week I spent in England I can only think of one word to describe the experience and that is 'grey'. Every thing just felt so drab. Wonderful people, but awful weather. I don't know how people can live with only two months of summer. That would be depressing. Even our winters aren't that cold with most days hitting the high teens (in Celsius). Actually I love winter in Sydney more than summer.

I'm attending a clinic for my insomnia and one thing they talk about is that you should get as much natural light in the morning as possible to help to wake you. They found that the less natural bright light your exposed to you tend to feel more depressed and tired during the day. So I can understand why people feel down in the northern part of Europe where the winter nights are so long.

Maybe those of you who live in Britain should buy those bright lamps that give you the morning light dose that your body requires.


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

neighbours










eastenders










coronation street


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

I watch it for Harold Bishop not the women:


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## Milan (May 29, 2005)

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## just breathe (Nov 21, 2005)

i too have noticed that alot of the limeys(is this considered a racial slur) are on this board, and others...Maybe all the drugs that pink floyd,the beatles and the who did are being sweated out and mixing with the breathable air and you are all getting a contact high..... :lol:


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## greatnavad (Feb 23, 2006)

WHATTT THE :shock: ??

So the brits have it more becos they watch lousy operas which are more morose and pathetic than a granny's arse???

And i thought they had it more becos of thier higher intellect and being the masters of the known world...and becos they had more...blah blah blah....


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

lets face it musically we are superior........ and the teeth thing is a stereotype,just like the rest of the world believeing that all americans are fat and dumb,just a stereotype........... :twisted:


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## Gussick (Jan 27, 2006)

I'm not British, but I did grow up watching Dr. Who. Could this be the link?


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

to be absolutely serious for a minute there were 2 things that looking back on caused me to start my anxiety problems..........
this programme called threads,and also the AIDS campaign in the late 80's


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

jc said:


> lets face it musically we are superior........ and the teeth thing is a stereotype,just like the rest of the world believeing that all americans are fat and dumb,just a stereotype........... :twisted:


We Americans are fat and dumb-that's why we always invent new things, have the highest graduate level education, and the rest of the world wants to imitate us. As a matter of fact, I was reading a report how 52% of the Dutch are considered to be overweight! You all will catch up. Aaahh.....Europeans, they think they're elite and know everything but they'll be as fat as the Americans in no time.

Musically superior?? What ...the Beatles and the Stones?? Don't just think the last thirty years but consider anyhting from the Baroque era and up. Think big!


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I think, maybe, that a lot of Brits, Americans, Canadians and other English speakers come here is, well, because it is an English speaking site.

:shock:



> That's why we always invent new things, have the highest graduate level education, and the rest of the world wants to imitate us. As a matter of fact, I was reading a report how 52% of the Dutch are considered to be overweight!


That is the biggest pile of horse s.h.i.t I have read in a long while. I'm tempted to think it is tongue in cheek because of it's utter ridiculousness, so if it is, I apologise for the following rant.

Americans have the highest level of graduate education do they? Graduate education in america, while sounding very grand, is the equivalent of primary school education (5 - 12 year olds) in Europe. And these evil Dutch that you despise so much, I've never met leaner, more athletic people in all my life, and keep in mind I lived there for a year. I've spent various week long visits to the states and couldn't move for the blubber. Have you not caught on to the fact that the american food industry is force-feeding you like factory chickens?

Also, let's not forget that the filthy dutch, with their lax attitudes to drugs and sex, have the lowest drug problem and lowest teenage pregnancy rate in the entire western world. The only thing the americans can do is get so obscenely fat that they are unable to have sex without a dumper-truck. That, or relentlessly rant on religiously about how sex is 'evil' and send their children to special 'ranches' in the middle of the desert to be indoctrinated (sorry, taught) about the devil in their loins.

By the way, our teeth are natural. Not industrially polished freaks of nature. We grow old gracefully. Apparently that's meant to be more attractive. Sooner or later, most americans will have had so much plastic surgery that they will all look like the Cenobites in Hellraiser.

8)


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## greatnavad (Feb 23, 2006)

HI
I never thought this would turn into a free-for-all America bashing post.

There are great things about my country that our ENGLISH cousins can never better and they are , needless to say, bloody pissed at that.

Americans are the epitomization of freedom , liberty , free will and oppurtunity.
ITs the land of free, home of the brave. where possibilites endure and dreams come true.
"Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Americans are the greatest species on earth, we are the MASTERS of the UNIVERSE today , and brits can only watch ...and HOPE that thier times gone by return, and they , not others , become the most emulated people in the world.

like in the victorian era, everyone wanted to be an englishman, today everyone one...., well maybe not ayotallah or his ilk.., wants to be AMERICAN.
They wanna live the american dream.

There are some good things about our cousins in england though.
Thier sense of ruthless discipline...Law and order...Justice and fair play etc..
But then there are rotten things like kings and queens , dukes and duchesses etc...makes u laugh.
and the about other europeans...
well most of them are 50 or so years behind us....


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Martinelv said:


> I think, maybe, that a lot of Brits, Americans, Canadians and other English speakers come here is, well, because it is an English speaking site.
> 
> :shock:
> 
> ...


Wow...you're very defensive today. I guess you must really hate Americans because your disseminating a bunch of lies to make us look bad. I admit that Americans are fat, but your bliefs are NOT based on statistics and fact, rather opinion and "how it should be". Remember, numbers don't lie!

1) Not secondary level education because that does suck here, but at the graduate level America still produces more, and more, qualified candidates than anywhere else (do your research).
2) The Dutch are indeed extremely lean...BUT THIS IS CHANGING!! Statistics are showing that 52% of the Dutch are now overweight.
3) Admittedly so, the Dutch drug experimentation has been a failure. Go look it up! Drug usage had actually increased a bit and crime associated with drugs use has been on the increase.

I don't hate the Dutch at all, but the problem with the Dutch is that the moment something becomes a problem or too "hard to handle" they look for a way to tolerate things. It's called laziness and looking the other way in America.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

greatnavad said:


> HI
> I never thought this would turn into a free-for-all America bashing post.
> 
> There are great things about my country that our ENGLISH cousins can never better and they are , needless to say, bloody pissed at that.
> ...


The problem with many Europeans is that they venerate government institutions and monarchies. But that is because the government out there sells them a bill of goods that they'll take care of your retirement, pension, health care, you can't get fired, etc. If someone makes more money then the government is entitled to a piece of the action to redistribute, regardless if that person with more money worked harder or has more education, etc. They believe that they're entitled to everything and the government owes you; thank God Americans don't espouse this belief. We believe that the government should fear the people, not the other way around. Less taxes, empowerment to make your own decisions, and more competition!!! Nobody owes you anything in this world....go out there and make it one your own. Unfortunately, after 911, the politicians in Washington have actually increased the size of government. Sad!


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

You think Americans are well educated??? :lol: check this out:


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

greatnavad said:


> Americans are the greatest species on earth, we are the MASTERS of the UNIVERSE today , and brits can only watch ...and HOPE that thier times gone by return, and they , not others , become the most emulated people in the world.
> 
> like in the victorian era, everyone wanted to be an englishman, today everyone one...., well maybe not ayotallah or his ilk.., wants to be AMERICAN.
> They wanna live the american dream.


This is just a myth that only Americans believe. Everybody thinks that their country is the greatest, its just like a school kid saying "my dad is better than your dad"

How can you possibly say that Americans are masters of the universe when they vote in George Bush??? and treat their poor and disadvantaged worse than animals (Hurricane Katrina)

You know the famous quote: "The way to judge a society is by the way it treats its prisoners", 
What does this say about the US???


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## Soma (Mar 29, 2006)

In reply to Dreamland,
You're so right about the US looking the other way. Much like the time when the Americans looked the other way when they 'arrested' Wernher Von Braun who designed the V2 Rocket. The very technology that helped bomb our cities to smithereens was, I suppose, a minor technicality within the grand scheme of the NASA space race?
c***s..


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Tone said:


> In reply to Dreamland,
> You're so right about the US looking the other way. Much like the time when the Americans looked the other way when they 'arrested' Wernher Von Braun who designed the V2 Rocket. The very technology that helped bomb our cities to smithereens was, I suppose, a minor technicality within the grand scheme of the NASA space race?
> c***s..


You betcha!!!!! And we used that technology, improved it, and kept the Russians at bay for you during the cold war!! What...you all of a sudden want to go back in time to make America look bad?? I think that the U.K. has a lot more blood on its hands if we include the treatment of its colonies and all its wars. Hypocrite!! You're proving my point that you're "under-educated" by not thinking before presenting an argument. Use your head instead of your emotions you silly c**t!!

Pablo...oye huevon!! Listen up.....You just don't get it do you...The people who suffered the most during Katrina were indeed disadvantaged but they had a big hand in their own predicament. These were people who were warned that they had to evacuate, school buses were provided for transportation, but they REFUSED...well, a lot of them did. YOU NEED TO TAKE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. The ones that suffered were welfare recipients for the most parts who believe that the government needs to provide for everything but refuse to help themselves. That's why they're on WELFARE. My tax dollars...hello??? And we don't take care of the poor? Wake up before you open up your mouth. I'm prepared for the hurricanes here in Florida, water and supplies aside, any looter will be greeted by 12 gauge Remington and Mossberg assault shotguns. You guessed it ...I'm not waiting for the government to help me


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

This hyper competitive attitude of each man for himself is superb if you want a country which exists for the sole puropse of making money and the individual exists simply as a consumer within a system.

But what is also a result of this system is a breakdown in family structures, community values, national culture, mental and physical health. What you have is a country dominated by big business which allows money to dominate policy, whereas in any decent country policy and the welfare of the population is decided by people without vested intrest and with moral value as the highest priority.

I admitt here in England we are too lenient with welfare and we should be more harsh but I am proud of the NHS and the free health care for all we provide because if you are ill how are you supposed to take responsibility if you cannot afford a doctor to make you better? I am glad that the government is restrictive with advertising companies especially with children and that business does not interfere with education and that drugs companies aren't allowed to sell all of their rubbbish to the public.

Dreamland I am surprised someone who has suffered with DP has such attitudes because I certainly experienced a period when I was unable to work or take responsibility for my own welfare and I had to rely on others and it was not down to me being lazy or not trying, in fact the harder I tried to take responsibility the worse I got.


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## Soma (Mar 29, 2006)

So the irony of this p***ing contest between the US and UK hasn't been lost on us then?


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I love this pissing contest....it's fun!! I surreptitiously mentioned some "buzzwords" to get some on this board all hot and ready to fight, and it's working. Keeps your mind off DP for a while.......LOL!!!

Pablo.....I have perfect health care her in the U.S. and the last thing I want is socialized medicine, because when something is perceived to be free it is abused by many! Here are some facts: Our neighbors to the north (Canada) are constantly flocking to the U.S. to get procedures done because of rediculous long waiting periods in Canada. And the cost of healthcare over there is sky rocketing because nobody is taking "ownership". As a matter of fact, a family of four in Quebec pays close to $5000 in yearly healthcare premiums, paid for by way of taxation! MORE EXEPENSIVE THAN PRIVATE PROVIDERS!That's what I'm talking about....they're just taxing everybody, but you're paying more for it in the end. It's not free healthcare......free does not exist!!! Moreover, there's also a need for MRI and other high tech equipment that just isn't available because of people squandering resources on the supposed "free" system.

As far as relying on others ...absolutely!!! You rely on your family and friends, and that is what makes America not only great, but good! I see the outpouring by the community here during times of natural disasters, young kids selling lemonade or organizing car washes to help with a kitty found abondend and needing vet care, Habitat For Humanity: where people volunteer their time and money to build houses for the poor, Churches donating money and services. People do it out of their own volition. I mean come on, the spirit of helping your fellow man is alive and well in America and that's how it's supposed to be, as opposed to my Dutch relatives who constantly say "Who me?...oh no...I don't have to that...that's the job of the government....we have a great system here" Yeah whatever. See what I'm saying? A society that helps its fellow man to get on its feet is doing the moral thing, but a government that forces you to give money (taxation) to spend it on what they see as moral is doing an immoral thing.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Dreamland said:


> IAs far as relying on others ...absolutely!!! You rely on your family and friends, and that is what makes America not only great, but good! I see the outpouring by the community here during times of natural disasters, young kids selling lemonade or organizing car washes to help with a kitty found abondend and needing vet care, Habitat For Humanity: where people volunteer their time and money to build houses for the poor, Churches donating money and services. People do it out of their own volition. I mean come on, the spirit of helping your fellow man is alive and well in America and that's how it's supposed to be, as opposed to my Dutch relatives who constantly say "Who me?...oh no...I don't have to that...that's the job of the government....we have a great system here" Yeah whatever. See what I'm saying? A society that helps its fellow man to get on its feet is doing the moral thing, but a government that forces you to give money (taxation) to spend it on what they see as moral is doing an immoral thing.


I am sure there are great charities in America but if you believe that they are bigger or better than elsewhere in the world you are kidding yourself.

When it came to Katrina I saw very little charity, in fact it seemed to me that the majority of able bodied people saw it as an excuse for rape, murder and theft while in other similar disasters such as the Asian Tsunami, or Pakistan earthquake or even during the blitz in London you did not see anything like the sickening breakdown in morality and value which happened in New Orleans. To me the reason for this boils down to the American attitude of out for yourself, look after no1, my neighbour is not my friend he is my competitor. This paranoid devisive culture is encouraged by the lax gun laws which allow any nut to get hold of a deadly weapon so every person you meet has the potential to kill you.

I think that it is important for the government to tax so they can decide where money for charity is spent otherwise Africa would probably starve and the fact is that most people simply dont give a damm about anything which isn't in their immediate world so it is up to government to think of the big picture as most people simply dont care.

You have got to understand that it is hard to take a country seriously if they elect Arnold Schwarzenegger as governor, its about time Californians realised he isn't really a terminator and he cant sort out Iraq on his own.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I never said that other countries don't participate in charity; they do, and with passion!

As far as Katrina is concerend....yes ! That was the ugly face of society; a segment that was living off handouts from the government and a small number of "gangstas" who subsequently began robbing and looting their own "people". I'm not a racist, but there is a certain segment in our society who refuses to assimilate and step up to the game...and I'm not responsible for people who don't want to better themselves. We now have "illegal "Mexican immigrants rebuilding New Orleans because the "locals" are refusing to rebuild their own city.....it's sick! A far as guns are concerned, I'm a second amendment activist, since you need to be armed when a looter or criminal enters your home. I protect my life and property with deadly force. Again, the numbers don't lie; barring some exceptions, most law obiding citizens don't go out and buy guns to commit crimes.

Africa??? Come on! They have received so much aid in the past...when are we going to hold these African "leaders" to a higher standard?....Mobotu Sese Seko..Charles Taylor..etc. The Africans are responsible for their own plight for God's sake. They're killing each other. It's a corrupt and backward continent.


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## Milan (May 29, 2005)

Dreamland said:


> ........any looter will be greeted by 12 gauge Remington and Mossberg assault shotguns. You guessed it ...I'm not waiting for the government to help me


The quintessential American.

What happened to all the talk about English soap operas?


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## TotallyPhazed (Nov 25, 2005)

Wow, the stench of horse s**t is amazing.

No wonder the world is in such a mess after British Colonization and North American Economic Globalisation. I've been and lived all over the world - and in all honestly I'd rate Russia as the most miserable place to live, the USA the second most miserable and the UK would come in at a third place.

I think the Dutch have got a lot going in their favour, apart from signing up to the EURO. If I had to nominate a utopia style culture , I'd opt for Australia every time, but I guess it's not so cool if your an aboriginal.

Has anyone considered how ownership of PC's and cheap internet has an affect on which nationalities have more access to forums like these ----?


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> The problem with many Europeans is that they venerate government institutions and monarchies. But that is because the government out there sells them a bill of goods that they'll take care of your retirement, pension, health care, you can't get fired, etc. If someone makes more money then the government is entitled to a piece of the action to redistribute, regardless if that person with more money worked harder or has more education, etc. They believe that they're entitled to everything and the government owes you; thank God Americans don't espouse this belief. We believe that the government should fear the people, not the other way around. Less taxes, empowerment to make your own decisions, and more competition!!!


Astonising. How can someone be so misinformed? Do you think it's still 1676 over here?

It never ceases to amaze me that americans (who I'm not bashing, I'm just making a point - a subtle one, one that is usually lost on them) never answer a question. They just talk about themselves and how wonderful they are, and their incredible achievements. The rest of the worlds achievements pale into utter insignificance compared to the master race. Oh yes.

Do Americans understand satire? I'm really curious.



> Africa??? Come on! They have received so much aid in the past...when are we going to hold these African "leaders" to a higher standard?....Mobotu Sese Seko..Charles Taylor..etc. The Africans are responsible for their own plight for God's sake. They're killing each other. It's a corrupt and backward continent.


That is absolutely sickening, bordering on racism. Again, absolutely no concept of african culture, politics, beyond what they see on CNN. If you are to projectile such ridiculous vomit as this, be carefull as to not 'offend' anyone, won't you.

Jesus H. Christ on a bike.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

As is my wont, if I?ve offended any individuals, I apologise. But for the sake of balance, I?ll do my best and defend the recent smearing of BILLIONS of Africans. But to begin with, a little American bashing. But try to read on, it?s not all about Americans and religion!

Culture defines society. Tell me, what culture do the Americans have? I know there is a church on Manhattan from the 18th (very nice, I?ve been in there) century that is venerated as an ancient monument on a par with the pyramids, but what else? The Indians? Dead. And why do most Americans consider themselves Scots/Irish, or Scots/whatever. Aren?t any of you Americans? How long will you rely on a distant ancestry with a culture to give yourself a sense of identity? Our royal family has German blood, but I?d rather s.h.i.t a coconut than consider myself German.

I have an amusing story to tell about your magnificent education system. Please keep in mind this is not a one off?it?s just the most laughable one I?ve come across. I worked for an American organisation, Amgen, and was in regular contact with one of the Professors of Clinical Trials in Thousand Oaks, Los Angeles. She has two PhD?s, but, and here?s the incredible bit, she didn?t realise that Great Britain was an island. But even better, she didn?t realise that German, French, etc, were actual languages, but rather ?accents? of English!!!!! Too many war films I expect. So, another example of American ignorant isolation. (4% of you have passports, incidentally, which to my mind speak volumes.) Also, do you remember the Morgan Sprilock film, ?Supersize me.?? Every person he asked on the street had no idea what a calorie was. Not one. Elicit editing? Perhaps.

As far as I can see it, your attitude is nothing less than bombastic arrogance. Why, I know not. You drone on about respect, but you forget that respect has to be earned. And therefore this leads to your mighty achievements, which seem to involve not much else but war and meddling where you are not wanted or needed. Unsuccessful interventions in foreign nations that you know nothing of. Vietnam, Korea, the Middle East?etc. Oh, and Africa. And shooting poor Mexicans as they clamber over a wall that is frighteningly similar to the one in Israel. Do you recognise the parallel between the two? It?s fear. The Israelis fear terrorism, and Americans fear the loss of greed, your most precious (and encouraged) ideal. But regarding war, I?ll give you the Second World War. Cheers for helping out and I grieve for your dead.

Let me tell correct you about Africa. The problems there are as follows:

1. Religion. The Catholic (and to a certain extent) Christian churches, murder poor starving Africans because they, because of their own beliefs (perish the thought ? there is only ONE GOD!), used to dare to use contraception and natural population control.. Also, there is Islam in the Sudan, Libya, Algeria, and some parts of Nigeria. AIDS is rife in Africa because greedy, CORRUPT, western pharmaceutical organisations refuse to subsidise the medication.

And now, of all the things that I have said, this will be the most shocking and provoke savage howls of protest I guarantee it. It is that the Pope as the head of the Catholic Church, is directly responsible for the death of millions of Africans (and others) who, because of the reasons I stated above, listen to his saintly flatulence and do not use contraception anymore. The result? Chronic over-population, which leads to famine, war and a lot more besides. The Africans are not to blame. Education and not the dire threats of burning in hell are the way to solve the problem. Abstinence may be a solution for us, but for those people who?s indigenous beliefs include the divine right to pro-create as soon as a woman is fertile, is not. And it is a reasonable ethos too. The life-expectancy of an African, on average, is around 57, so because of the threat of AIDS, and this may sound like a contradiction, they need to pro-create further to produce a future generation (assuming that the pharmaceutical companies come to their senses in time) of men and women who live long enough, without the threat of AIDS or poverty hanging over their heads, to create a better Africa. An Africa we all want to see. Otherwise they will continue not to use contraception and die. Maybe that is the intention once our friends in OPEC run out of oil, so we can plunder Africa instead. After all, these corrupt, selfish Africans deserve it, yeah? Even though they?ve had less than a decade of post-colonialism exploitation to sort themselves out.

Oh, and you pour money into Africa do you? For a start, your entire contribution doesn?t even begin to cover their crippling YEARLY debt repayment of a single small nation. Secondly, you Americans should be ashamed beyond belief that out of all developed nations, you contribute by far the least. Check it out if you don?t believe me. I understand that even the tiny island of the Maldives (it?s on the map) contributes more. I guess it?s because you are too busy spending money on warfare, McDonalds and stomach stapling, not forgetting the 764 pay-per-view TV channels with such ?comedy? as Seinfeld??.dear me. 88% of Africans do not even have a radio and 66% access to fresh water. There is nothing wrong with being rich and comfortable of course, but it?s time we thought, no, did something about raising Butter Mountains and worrying about how much the next 4x4 gas-guzzler is going to cost. Suffering is relative of course, but there is suffering and there is suffering. A broken nail is not suffering. Walking 30 miles each day to drink typhoid-infected water is suffering.

Remember all that the next time you see the Pope sashaying around St Peter?s with his 4000-dollar watch gleaming in the warm Italian sun. Remember that the next time one of those impossibly ludicrous TV evangelists urge you to send them money for?..whatever. Remember that the next time you turn over the TV when a program about starving African children comes on and watch the latest episode of ?Will and Grace? instead. Being honest, I turn over as well. But I remember, and try to contribute as best I can. I?m not a saint, far from it, although some say I do have a resemblance to Padre Pio! Seriously, I sincerely believe that action is better than sympathy, and I?m sure most of us do.

2. Colonialism. The legacy of European countries (including England) of ravaging their counties and destroying indigenous beliefs. The Belgians were directly responsible for the ethnic tensions in Rwanda. Not forgetting the forced slave labour and guilty (guilt was the only reason) repatriation by the Americans in West Africa. Do you blame them for being a bit confused and corrupt in that area? I don?t. Because you have basically left them to get on with it, is it so surprising that sadistic generals and warlords gained control amid the chaos? It may have seemed a noble cause at the time, but, again, you didn?t think about the consequences, just like in Iraq. At least we sent the Sultans back to India with an education and our apologies and sacks of Green Tea and plundered goods.

Africa is not the seething nation of corruption that you describe. Botswana, for instance, despite having an HIV rate approaching 75%, is now a rich, democratic and prosperous country, and was described by UN as being the 13th least corrupt nation on earth, from a total of around 179 countries. Could America, with all it?s wealth and resources, match that?

So it?s not all doom and gloom over there. Burkina Faso (it?s on the map) hosts one of the world?s most prestigious musical festivals. Mali (it?s on the map) has recently hosted a hugely successful African football (Soccer) tournament. These countries are some of the poorest in the world, smack bang in the middle of the Sahara. England, the fourth richest nation on the planet apparently, can?t even build. Wembley Stadium without going millions over budget and 12 months beyond schedule. I dread to think the catastrophe that awaits the Olympics in 2012. Also, despite years of apartheid, South Africa is doing it?s utmost to give the all Africans, black, coloured and white, a better future. I know this; I?ve been there and seen it. However, to journey to the pristine, white dominated centre of Cape Town, you have to pass through 30 miles of shantytowns, which bare a remarkable resemblance to a rubbish dump. Sea gulls pecking at the rubbish and all that. It made me ashamed to be a white man watching this poor country trying to build what are little more that metal sheds to house the previously despised.

Britain is far from blame. Our past imperialism was disgusting, but was motivated, generally, by the need for resources. Our island is pitifully short of it; hence we are the world?s biggest importer of natural resources. It?s not an excuse whatsoever, we did some hideous things, but these countries, such as India, have forgiven us, mostly. Time forgives, but doesn?t, of course, forget. Which is why we will, I hope, not make the same mistakes again.

We have learnt by our mistakes, or are trying not to learn new ones ? the ?wur on tur? apart (incidentally, the majority of our population opposed it). It seems to me that America is making terrible new ones. And worst of all, they tell the rest of us that they are the leaders in making a better, safer world. The mind boggles. As one of you said, it?s better to be told what to do than think for yourselves. Really? LOL. That one is a classic and a real shame. You might as well dislocate your brain. A lot of Americans think that liberalism is to blame. Wrong. It frees people from the shackles of indoctrination. Neo-conservatism is akin to Nazism. When Cheney isn?t shooting ?innocent? people or Bush choking on pretzels, they are doing their level best to try and ignore the American constitution (not to mention the UN) and make us slaves to religiously based dogma. Quick example of a successful alternative ? Sweden, another supremely prosperous and happy nation, has church and state separation. They do not forbid religion, and I applaud that, but they do not allow it (except the bits about being nice to each other and doing good things ? like most sensible, non-religious people would do anyway, despite what the religious think ? that we cannot be moral without a book such as the Koran or the Bible to instruct us!) to interfere with their politics. After all, when there are so many different religions, how can you sure you have the right one? Best just to rely on being a good person and forget the rest, agreed? Do that, and even if there is a god, even one you don?t believe in, he?ll let you through his pearly gates. Unless, of course, he?s pissed that you?ve worshiped a false idol! LOL. But if he refuses you entry to paradise because he gave you the gift of free will (which Homesklooed, my, and, disappointingly, more intelligent friend) keeps reminding me, and have ?foolishly decided on another one, the he?s got to be a bit of a git eh? God that is. Not Homeskooled. Although he has his moments. LOL.

100 million Americans can?t be wrong about Bush? Yes they can. The rest of the planet recognise it. When that gimp was voted in, 4.5 billion people all over the world, except the sycophants with vested interests (most of Europe?s leaders unfortunately), had a vast collective head shaking session. But I guess that?s because we know nothing about you, eh?

America should follow Italy?s example and get rid of a leader who has such power that he can do whatever he wants.


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## greatnavad (Feb 23, 2006)

"NUTS!!!! ................." 
*- Army Douglas MacArthur, Supreme Allied Commander,* accepting japanese surrender aboard American battleship Missouri in Tokyo Bay.after a enormously voluminous speech by japanese general.

In the great tradition of american curtness and cuttin-through-the-crapability... i would wish to say those same words here.

You talk about moralityof the ENGLISH and talk pages about the badness of us whilst not realizing that there is NOTHING , HECK... not a single thing that we have done that has NOT BEEN DONE BY YOU BEFORE.

We are all part of they same Hypocrisy, the same COCK AND BULL STORIES ,Whether its iraq or afganistan, but dont ever think its american.

In fact you belligerant europeans messed up the whole world twice , fuelling a frenzy of mass murders called war.. and its only US, YES, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, which had to come , repeatedly , to clear up your mess and put you on track.

who knows what would have happened to Britain if we hadnt supported them during the blitz, and then, if we hadnt stepped in to defend europe from nazis, the whole europe would be wearing swastikas today.

we are always freedom loving people, its only the company of TONY blair and the colonial cousins aka england which is pulling us into this SHIT of iraq and afganistan.


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

In celebration of ocd, I would like to mention that I believe it was General McAuliffe who famously replied 'Nuts!' to German adversaries:

1944, December 29. Gen. Anthony C. McAuliffe recounting the German demand to surrender Bastogne, Belgium, which was held by the 101st Airborne Division against overwhelming odds, and his reply. "Nuts!" 2 min. 208-3
http://www.archives.gov/research/ww2/so ... dings.html

America is following the same pattern that every empire in history has followed, including England. Power corrupts and politicians and governments always lead the way. The health and integrity of American learning has become criticaly ill because of monopolistic corporate-government domination of education and media.

People in other nations should take heed, Americans did not willfully degrade their learning systems, this happened due to expanding government and corporate command of the culture since world war 2. This same cultural, mental and spiritual disease is spreading world wide rapidly. One of it's chief characteristics is demonizing whole nations of people as a hate object with one word insults such as 'Americans are greedy.'

Besides, our corporate-government masters have recently issued a helpful directive on how to combat the 'Ugly American' stereotype:

'a "World Citizens Guide" featuring 16 etiquette tips on how they can help improve America's battered international image.'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

In further celebration of ocd, I would like to mention that African population studies from 1998 at the UN and elsewhere showed a population of less than 1 billion.

Americans traditionaly give aid personaly rather than through the government, although unfortunately the idea of equating charity with government tax spending is spreading. The US government gives Egypt alone more than 1 billion a year in military aid.

M


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> You talk about moralityof the ENGLISH and talk pages about the badness of us whilst not realizing that there is NOTHING , HECK... not a single thing that we have done that has NOT BEEN DONE BY YOU BEFORE.


Pray, where did I say that? Did you not get as far as me talking about english and other european colonialism? No. Probably your stomach got in the say. :lol: (Dislcaimer - JOKE).


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

The problem with the America haters is not that they think America is unjust or evil, they're just a little jealous....that's all! They protest the war in Iraq, America's energy consumption, missile sites in Europe, etc. But these same hypocrites never protested the atrocities in Rwanda and Burundi, or the gassing of the Kurds by Saddam, or North Korea starving its own people to death, human rights violations in China, etc. How about the atrocities in Darfur???? Where are these same c*cks*ckers who are screaming about the war in Iraq?????Hypocrites is what they are!! Bottom line....statistics don't lie and you know that Martinlev..... there are more atrocities in other countries! Get your head out of the sand! Stick to facts instead of emotions.

As I said before, America is somewhat competitive and we love a good game and we love winners; it's part of our culture. On the other hand, there are people out there in Europe "land"--and I've been there so many times being European myself Martinlev--who believe that if you're successful, make money, and have a lot of wealth, you just can't be an honest person because they perceive themselves as honest, so their ego tells them since they don't have this wealth the ones with wealth must be "crooked" or "dishonest". Instead, they believe that the government should "regulate" these people and should take part of their/wealth income and share it. Yeah whatever; these idiots don't realize that these wealthy people create jobs and are also responsible for many inventions that have benefited society. Sorry.....I don't like that European system of "what's the government going to do for me attitude". It makes people lazy and it takes away the spirit of competitiveness.

And check your facts Martinlev.....America is NOT responsible for the world. We give a lot of charity but people need to step up to the game and quit looking for handouts! If you don't believe that Africa has a big hand in its own demise I suggest you study some history. All that time you spent complaing about America could have been used for something more productive, but nooooo........you're one of those who believes that there's some "conspiracy" at play to keep some people "down".....LOL!!!!!!!!

The sad thing is that there are actually some of you out there, gleefully waiting for the day America implodes, and sheething with anticipation so that you can say: "See..I knew this was going to happen". But what has America done to you? Nothing! The reason you feel this way is because you're a pathetic miserable soul yourself, and misery loves company; you just want to drag somebody down with you while you're drowning.

And ho...nincompoop....earning respect??? Use your vacuous brains and realize that we're not just about Iraq...try to think big. History is not just about the last three years. Elitist!!


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

By the way....you really are showing your true colors by intimating that America gives less than the Maldives. I know that you think you're intelligent because you can Google things, but for the love of humanity, don't distort facts.

As far as Africa and the Catholic church....I mean...what you're saying then is that the Africans are really STUPID because they listen to the pope and the Catholic church for instructions? Are you the racist here implying that they're really stupid and can't take responsibilty and think for themselves??? You need to think before you "Google" things. You're proving my point that you're not that knowledgable as you think you are, and your Catholic church example proves that Africa evidently can't think for itself. Ayayay...Por favor , no me digas.....que lastima.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> By the way....you really are showing your true colors by intimating that America gives less than the Maldives. I know that you think you're intelligent because you can Google things, but for the love of humanity, don't distort facts.


That's a cheap shot. Of course I checked google for the facts. I don't pretend I'm intelligent enough to know that off the top of my head. People who don't check their facts are called liars. Get my drift?

I don't have any true colours. My flag is white. It's tempting to tell you that I am a PhD, a published poet, and so forth, to demonstrate that I'm not a complete f******g idiot, but that would be bowing to your crass remarks.

Actually, your comment betrays your true colours, because people usually say gargantually stupid things like that when confronted with something that they don't understand. That, and pure spite. It's a shame.



> I mean...what you're saying then is that the Africans are really STUPID because they listen to the pope and the Catholic church for instructions?


Are you implicating that anyone that listens to the Catholic church is stupid? :shock: If I were you, I'd go hide in a nuclear bunker. I can hear Homeskooled coming. But no, that is not what I was suggesting. I was saying that Africans, for one reason or another, who had willingly converted to the Catholic Church, of course abid by their terrible rules regarding contraception. Stupidity has nothing to do with it. The consequences of faith have everything to do with it. Do you understand that?

I suggest you check you the American Citizen Guide. It has been produced by the American governement because the entire world percieves them as arrogant, ignorant, idiots, and they are trying to change that perception. Good luck to them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

http://www.worldcitizenguide.com/index2.html

Some good examples are (which the rest of the world takes as second nature - you seem to need a book to tell you!!) :

Think as big as you like but talk and act smaller. (In many countries, any form of boasting is considered very rude. Talking about wealth, power or status - corporate or personal - can create resentment.)

Listen at least as much as you talk. (By all means, talk about America and your life in our country. But also ask people you're visiting about themselves and their way of life.)

Save the lectures for your kids. (Whatever your subject of discussion, let it be a discussion not a lecture. Justified or not, the US is seen as imposing its will on the world.)

Think a little locally. (Try to find a few topics that are important in the local popular culture. Remember, most people in the world have little or no interest in the World Series or the Super Bowl. What we call "soccer" is football everywhere else. And it's the most popular sport on the planet.)

Slow down. (We talk fast, eat fast, move fast, live fast. Many cultures do not.)

Speak lower and slower. (A loud voice is often perceived as bragging. A fast talker can be seen as aggressive and threatening.)

Your religion is your religion and not necessarily theirs. (Religion is usually considered deeply personal, not a subject for public discussions.)

If you talk politics, talk - don't argue. (Steer clear of arguments about American politics, even if someone is attacking US politicians or policies. Agree to disagree.)


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## greatnavad (Feb 23, 2006)

HI,
There are reasons for everything americans are today.
I wouldnt wanna go into that lot
Americans are independent , very informal and maybe even selfish.
this is just a trait we have accquired through our ancestors who migrated from distant lands in search of better living.
we were pioneers , nomads, treasure hunters , adventurers and most importantly independent.
IT is this entreprenural spirit , the sense of adventure and risk taking, which drives most americans.
We dont give a crap about kings and queens. all men are created equal.

we believe in making in this world on our own. no man ows no other anything. Except brotherhood and social responsibilty.
If socialist form of doing through goverment was a success, USSR would be the greatest country today.

About gun laws, well, thats the national obession about posession of arms.
Guns dont kill people,people kill people.

about afganistan : it could have been handleed better
About iraq : saddam wasnt a saint, but its pure nonsense putting americans lives at risk everyday trying to civilize iraqies. it aint worth it
about charity: america has to rise up and show more generosity.

about iran : we have to stop islamic bomb, just like hitler shoould have been stopped at munich.

Any other views?


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## Beth (Sep 27, 2004)

OK, so presumably we're all in favour of democracy, as being seemingly the fairest form of government? Democracy is a formalization of the idea that every person is equally entitled to certain rights. It balances this with the concept of personal freedom, allowing the greatest possible freedom without encroaching on the rights of others. Libertarian systems of democracy always end up in a mess because this gets reversed. In a free market economy some people will prosper more than others, the economic advantage this gives them also gives them other advantages, which rapidly become political advantages. For example access to education and information, which is needed for a proper engagement with politics, depends on the availability of money and time. This is probably inevitable, but a government that puts a strong value on rights will ensure, or aim to ensure, that the children of less prosporous people have the same educational opportunities as those of richer parents, and also that monopolies and exploitative trade practises do not develop. If instead the government does not impose restrictions on trade and provide benefits to ensure equality of access to health and education sevices, then the system becomes rapidly more distorted, as ecomonic power becomes increasingly political. An example of such a democracy is the United States, where the business world has very close ties to the political world, with most figures in either system also belonging prominently to the other. Political decisions are then made according to economic considerations which favour the already prosporous, and rights become less and less a part of the democratic system.

It's just so f***ing obvious. The circumstances that some children are born into in the US are appalling given the wealth of the country. People are not equally clever, equally rich at birth, equally charismatic or sane. But they should have equal access to education, health, and employment that gives them a living wage and some free time. THEREFORE YOU NEED RESTRICTIONS. How can you possibly arrive at any other conclusion?

And that stuff about Africa was sick. The countries that got to the industrial revolution first completely raped the rest of the world. And they haven't recovered yet. In fact, we're still raping them. International trade is very regulated, but perversely entirely in favour of the countries that preach free markets.

Essentially you do not accept that people should all have the same rights, but there's a system in place that allows you to claim the name of a political ideology for what is actually complete selfishness. I didn't used to understand how the slave trade could possibly even have begun, let alone continued so long, but hearing the kinds of arguments that apparentely non-sociopathic people still put forward today it's very easy to understand.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I can't believe the bunkum that I'm reading......unbelievable! The business culture in America has strong ties to the political world....HELLO?????....Tell us something we don't know....jeeez. Of course businesses are going to seek ties with the political climate; it happens all over the world not just America, so if you don't approve of this practice look at Europe, Asia, former Soviet Republic, etc. Don't just pick on the U.S. because they're bigger and better. Wake up out of that fantasy communist world you live in! By the way, do you know how much businesses contribute to social causes in America? I bet you don't so go look it up. It's amazing that some people want to pick on America just because they themselves have been bullied around all of their life.

America is NOT a democracy; remember, it's a constitutional Republic whereby people live according to the rule of law! A democracy is tyranny by the masses and has the potential to infringe upon the rights of minorities.

I do believe that people should have the same rights but your idea of rights and mine are not the same, since you're speaking of entitlements. Some people are born into poverty in America......yes some are, but why don't these people get themselves out of poverty?? Example: so many immigrants who come to America who can barely speak English do make it and achieve success. It is possible...I see it all the time. But noooo....you think it's too "hard"..it will take too much "effort"...so lets start "regulating" income because it's not "fair" if someone else makes more money. Are you really that dumb to believe that the people with money in America didn't work hard for it???? If you take that incentive away from people and promise everyone a living then what's the point??? You'll create a bunch of lazy European-entitlement-minded Europeans
who believe that they have a right to everything. What you fail to realize is that the incentive to make money and profit has always benefited society in general, provided that the market place stays competitive. For example, most "regulated" government institutions are inefficient because they're not accountable....hell...they get paid regardless; it's just a job! The same thing is happening with socialized medicine since people believe that it's free and they can abuse it and nobody's accountable. You need to wake up out of your fantasy world where everybody is the same.

America DOES take care of the poorest of the poor...the sick ...etc..But if you have the ability to WORK then get your butt in gear and do something for crying out loud. By the way, as I mentioned in previous posts, statistics don't lie so I'll be willing to bet $25,000 if you can provide me with the name of a country with a longer waiting line for "legal" immigrants than the United States. I guess the United States is not that bad after all, right?

I'm sick and tired of these people who talk about how America treats its poor and how unfair we are to the weak, etc. And this is coming from people who never lived here....amazing. I used to work for the phone company many years ago and was amazed at the amount of so called poor people would get discounted phone rates based on SSI public assistance. The funny thing was that their financial aid was based on the amount of children they had, so a lot of these people would have more children since the government gave more assistance!!! Having babies was an investment for them!!! You all need to wake up....I worked with many poor disadvantaged people in the U.S. and most of them are smart enough to "work the system". A lot of them are where they are because of personal choice and ignorance and I'm NOT going to support them. If you're sick or going through hard times, no problem; we're here for you. People who've never worked with the poor often have the biggest mouth...it never seizes to amaze me.


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

The idea of 'rich people need to be controled by the government' is a smokescreen fantasy that was invented by rich people themselves to cover up the truth. The truth is that rich people always have and always will control the government, and their dog on their leash will never bite them. Greater government control benefits elite rich people. This is because elite rich people use their connections, power and resources to shape and handle government regulations much more effectively than poorer people ever will.

Middle class and poor people who call for more government intervention are only calling for more government intervention in their own lives. Rich people have media people, accountants, bankers, lawyers, lobbyists and even politicians at their hire to influence and control government power to their strong advantage. The middle and lower classes have none of this. Instead, the middle and lower classes are taught in government mandated and controled schools that more government power is the solution to almost any problem. They than faithfully call for yet more government power, ignoring the history of the last 50 years.

The government gave us a middle east war and now gas is $3/gallon, the government was responsible for the New Orleans dike and now there is no more New Orleans, Dick Cheney's Haliburton company is making billions yet more government power is supposed to help poor people and control the rich.

Please consider that the government schools may have lied to you and read the following:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard33.html

Btw, many leading libertarians don't consider Democracy to be the ideal system of government:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/hoppe/hoppe4.html

M

ps: Imagine a middle class person struggling with a 10-40 that will cost him the same amount as his yearly mortage. Now imagine a rich person who has a team of accountants, lawyers, bankers and politicians handling his affairs. The rich guy won't be worried about eating after paying his taxes. Which of these two people will better be able to handle more government regulations? Who is going to be hurt more by more government spending and a military draft for more wars?

At one time Americans doubted government power. What happened?


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Gas prices are NOT higher because of the war in Iraq. This again is a common misconception that's going to turn into a urban legend. Get the facts correct! The main reason gas prices are higher is because of increased demand from China and India......more demand=higher prices. Free market economy at work! On the flip side, you pay more per gallon because of state and federal taxes than for the profit margin of the oil companies-I believe 42 cent for every dollar is taxes; twelve cents is the profit for the oil company. There you go...."government regulations" jacking up the price, not the oil companies; people need to get their facts straight instead of making emotional arguments.

As far as the $400 million retirement package for Exxon's ex CEO? Divide that out in dollars and cents among daily gas consumption and you're realize that it's less than pennies. Again, it's more of a "people shouldn't be making that kind of money" argument, when in reality is wealth does NOT affect mine or yours in any way shape or form.

Halliburton?? Of course you're going to give a contract or bid to a company you know that can do the job...it's common sense!!! Hello..?? Business relationships at work. Who are you going to give it to, some small company in Kahooloawah Hawaii that doesn't have the experience that Halliburton has?? Come on and use you common sense for crying out loud. I got a serious promotion the other day and I was tacitly informed beforehand that I would get the job...so go apply for it. Why?? Because I have a solid proven track record as a producer bringing in money for my company and I'm an affable person. Why should they even consider outside candidates?? Does that make sense to you? You too would hire Someone you know, and, who is a solid performer. It happens all the time....even with poor people.


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

> Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: Reply with quote
> Gas prices are NOT higher because of the war in Iraq. This again is a common misconception that's going to turn into a urban legend. Get the facts correct! The main reason gas prices are higher is because of increased demand from China and India......more demand=higher prices.


 Unlike yourself, I don't have the authority to pronounce what the facts of oil industry analysis are, but I would argue that the reduction of global oil supply caused by the Iraq war has increased prices:

Iraqi oil industry in crisis

Iraqi oil exports fell to their lowest level in two years in November 2005. Bad management of the reconstruction effort, widespread corruption among government figures, and sabotage by insurgents are the reasons for the decline. Experts say that the US strategy of military intervention in oil-rich regions can only diminish, rather than increase, the supply to world markets.

By Heiko Flottau in Cairo for ISN Security Watch 
http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=13770

In addition, prices of commodities are also effected by perceived future scarcity. Wars and threats of wars such as against Iran create fears of instability and cause commodity owners to hold on tighter to their supplies. 
Those types of effects often happen in futures markets or in private business dealings were the public is less aware of them.



> Free market economy at work! On the flip side, you pay more per gallon because of state and federal taxes than for the profit margin of the oil companies-I believe 42 cent for every dollar is taxes; twelve cents is the profit for the oil company. There you go...."government regulations" jacking up the price, not the oil companies; people need to get their facts straight instead of making emotional arguments.


 Agreed, on regulations raising oil prices. Those slim profit margins and many other oil regulations help prevent competition and result in a handful of giant oil players. Controlling the price of oil is an impossible task, but making it harder for upstarts to compete is much more possible. Oil industry insiders like Condi Rice go back and forth between government and the oil industry and try to bend the ever growing government their way. I can't say I entirely blame them for trying to help themselves. The best strategy for the middle class and poor is to work to reduce government at all levels because they can't compete with big corporate lobbyists in influencing government. Bigger government inherently aids big corporations because only big corporations can effectively influence and handle big government.



> Halliburton?? Of course you're going to give a contract or bid to a company you know that can do the job...it's common sense!!! Hello..?? Business relationships at work. Who are you going to give it to, some small company in Kahooloawah Hawaii that doesn't have the experience that Halliburton has?? Come on and use you common sense for crying out loud.
> [\quote]
> 
> My common sense tells me that politicians who start unnecessary wars that benefit their own companies are thieves. I don't blame politicians for benefiting themselves, most human beings with power succumb to it, the blame lies with we who support giving them so much power.
> ...


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I want PROOF that this war started with the intention to make Haliburton richer; not that they beniffted from the reconstruction--we all know they did--but proof that the reason to go to war was to make Haliburton and oil companies wealthier. I think that it was based on sloppy and faulty intelligence...but hey, who am I, right?


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Dreamland, you asked for PROOF to the previous post, well I DEMAND proof for your following quote:



> America DOES take care of the poorest of the poor...the sick


Try Google if you don't know the stats of the top of your head.


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

> I want PROOF that this war started with the intention to make Haliburton richer; not that they beniffted from the reconstruction--we all know they did--but proof that the reason to go to war was to make Haliburton and oil companies wealthier. I think that it was based on sloppy and faulty intelligence...but hey, who am I, right?


 The Downing Street memo and much other uncontestable evidence has shown that the US government was going to attack Iraq regardless of any 'intelligence' and even use deceit to justify doing so. Paul Wolfowitz himself said in an interview that they sought political rather than 'intelligence' justification for the war. Rumsfeld created his own 'intelligence' unit that got most of it's 'intelligence' from Chalabi, who also happened to be on their payroll. Bush himself has even publicly joked about failing to find 'weapons of mass destruction.' The air war started months before the 'offical' war. Iraq complied with all inspection demands after August 2002 and Bush ignored both this and told the inspectors to stop their unhindered work and get out of the country. The fact that the US started an unjustified war is nothing less than uncontestable. As a matter of fact, the initiation of wars based on conjecture alone is now the official war policy of the US, as legaly declared in the 'National Security Strategy':

http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html

The right and even responsibility of the US to use warfare without being attacked first to ensure global 'freedom' has been explained many times by both Bush and the AEI strategists who came up with that idea. The kicker is that it's US politicians who get to decide what 'freedom' is and when and how they get to bomb people to support 'freedom.'

Thus Cheney asserts his right to start wars, 'nation building' and use warfare businesses of what ever type as he sees fit that supposedly benefit 'freedom' and makes no bones about it.

All politcians and beauracrats are fundamentaly concerned with enhancing their own power in the government and using it to benefit themselves and their friends. They unvaryingly see themselves as righteous and justified in doing this, rationalized by various beliefs and unbalanced egos. Take a trip to Washington DC and walk around or read any book on political history such as 'the power game' and this will be undeniable.

The Iraq war was standard politician practice of working to expand their own and by linked necessity the governments power. The US people became fearful of a new era in global politics and bought a bill of goods from politicians who have given it to them countless times, and they didn't even kiss us.

There is also plenty of evidence that the politicians will and have used deceit in asserting their self claimed right to start wars:

http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/

If that's at all surprising please email me immediately about a special real estate deal.

M


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Methusala,

I agree with what you're stating in your post; faulty intelligence and ignoring "good" intelligence. They indeed relied too much on Achmed Chalabi, Wolfowitz, Bremmer, Pearl, etc. They we're under the impression that it was going to be an easy war and they took a big gamble. I was extremely disappointed when the so called WMD's were never uncovered, since my argument was that if the CIA had the ability to uncover cell phone numbers of Iraqi generals with the aim to intimidate, you're going to tell me that you can't find a stash of WMD'S..???? Give me a break. Unfortunately, the war in Iraq is a proxy war that we are fighting for Israel-the Israeli's are extremely influential and crafty. God bless 'em....LOL!! Although tribal lineage and othe Iraqi traditions take precedence over American style apple-pie constitutional republics, I will laugh my ass off if in about ten years or so Iraq is indeed on its way to become the first Western style democracy in the Middle East. These things take time, and most Iraqis wanted Saddam ousted anyway; your ordinary Iraqi is not planting IED's on the side of the road, and we both know that! Moreover, Iraq did violate the stipulations of the 1991 seize fire agreement so military action was not completely out of the question. The timing obviously is suspect! I admit that we made mistakes, but at the same time, I also have a beef with some Europeans who are just waiting anf hoping that Iraq is going to fail, just to prove their point.

Martinelv,

Proof? It's called Medicare, Medicaid, Medi-Cal, food-stamps, etc. Most poor people in America are on some form of welfare; as a matter of fact, Puerto Rico, which isn't even a state but a commonwealth, receives a ton of aid since about thirty percent of the population is on some form of welfare. But wait....you want them all to have SUV's, three bedroom houses with swimming pools, Gucci man-bags, since you want everybody to be the same. Financial rewards through hard work is a dirty word in your vocabulary I guess. You're of the mindset that when you see a poor American on TV begging for food you immediately say "how can a wealthy country like America let that happen", as opposed to that perhaps this person had a hand in his own predicament-you believe that the government should be a giant ATM/cash machine. It doesn't work that way my friend.


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## greatnavad (Feb 23, 2006)

HI,
about iraq,
i dont think it was faulty intelligence or any of that c**P which influenced our decision to invade it. I think it was a decisive and well thought after action with definate objectives. What these objectives were and whether they were politically correct is anybody's guess.

Nobody knows what future holds. This may be beginning of a Neo colonizing movement in the world. It may be beginnning of a crusade. i mean nobody knows what shit future holds.

I dont think we can immeditely conclude that iraq would be another vietnam. America has shown the world before that it can "REFORM" and Corrugate Democracies all over, no matter how hostile they are.
Japan is the biggest example.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Thanks for the link to the Downing Street Memo.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

I've just read this thread, and I admit I've been quite entertained by it. Sweeping generalizations by Martin of Americans and Catholics, sweeping generalizations of Africans and the Europeans by Americans....alas! If only I had something insulting to say! Unfortunately, it would be more of the evenhanded same that I'm used to doling out, so I think I'll just refrain and let ya'll polarize the heck out of the debate....

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Homeskooled,

I'm just adding fire to the flames. This post was obviously succesful in making some people forget about DP for a while, even if it takes a little bit of embelishment. You gotta have fun!!! One thing is certain; American woman tend to have larger breasts--fake or not--and that's all that matters.


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## subtlerobot (Oct 15, 2005)

lmao, the first page of this post is about british people, the last is about gas prices... :lol:


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

Detailed comparsion of america goodness versus england goodness

AMERICA -








FATNESS








POLITICS

ENGLAND-








POLITICS








FATNESS

THEY ARE BOTH AS BAD AS EACH OTHER , OMFG!!!!


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Hey, it wasn't a generalisation, it was a rant. Am I not even entitled to that anymore?

Anyway, generalisation makes the world go around. Sweeping ones, wouldn't you agree, Homey? Especially if we make them with blinkers on.


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