# Anxiety after dp-recovery



## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

I remember there was some discussion earlier, where some were somewhat afraid of getting back to normal reality. I was one of them, maybe it was the change that was scaring me, as after 2 months dp 24/7 I could no longer remember how it was to be without the fog. Of course I desperately wanted to get better, but at the same time it frightened me.

Now I can tell you there is nothing frightening in dp lifting away. The change is gradual, and when you get better, you realize that the normal reality was always there with you, alongside dp-feeling, although when dp'ed you thought you can no longer remember how it was to be normal.

But now later on I really understand why it's called a defense. I feel there was something protective with dp. In it's gentle embrace  I wasn't as anxious as Im now, as somehow the fog protected me from my anxious thoughts. I feel much more vulnerable now...it's really hard to explain..(okay some of you just might want to kill me right now cause of the matter Im complaining about)

Does anybody else have some similar thoughts?

(Now Im totally dp'ed when writing this..got what I wanted..)


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

I remember there was some discussion earlier, where some were somewhat afraid of getting back to normal reality. I was one of them, maybe it was the change that was scaring me, as after 2 months dp 24/7 I could no longer remember how it was to be without the fog. Of course I desperately wanted to get better, but at the same time it frightened me.

Now I can tell you there is nothing frightening in dp lifting away. The change is gradual, and when you get better, you realize that the normal reality was always there with you, alongside dp-feeling, although when dp'ed you thought you can no longer remember how it was to be normal.

But now later on I really understand why it's called a defense. I feel there was something protective with dp. In it's gentle embrace  I wasn't as anxious as Im now, as somehow the fog protected me from my anxious thoughts. I feel much more vulnerable now...it's really hard to explain..(okay some of you just might want to kill me right now cause of the matter Im complaining about)

Does anybody else have some similar thoughts?

(Now Im totally dp'ed when writing this..got what I wanted..)


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

yes i'm dealing with anxiety more than dp right now as the dp has been lifting for me too. not gone yet but definately going. in my case i think i need to up my ad dose as i'm still on the lowest. have you used any meds to help?


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

yes i'm dealing with anxiety more than dp right now as the dp has been lifting for me too. not gone yet but definately going. in my case i think i need to up my ad dose as i'm still on the lowest. have you used any meds to help?


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

I have been on Remeron (antidepressant, 15 mg daily which is the lowest) for four weeks now. I think I should up it also, or try something else. I might feel more anxious n depressed without it, but I don't think it's helping much.


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

I have been on Remeron (antidepressant, 15 mg daily which is the lowest) for four weeks now. I think I should up it also, or try something else. I might feel more anxious n depressed without it, but I don't think it's helping much.


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i dont know remeron. is it an ssri? some of the ssris are given for anxiety as well as depression


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i dont know remeron. is it an ssri? some of the ssris are given for anxiety as well as depression


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

The worst thing you can do when you start coming out of dp is to compare yourself to how you ever felt in the past. Do not look behind you.

You will have ample time to reflect later - once you are really over all this. But not now.

This is the time, more than ever before, when it's crucial to NOT self-examine. Ignore yourself. As much as humanly possible, keep your mind on other people, subjects, entertainments, interesting topics/ideas (politics, history, literature, whatever your interests are)....keep your mind OFF yourself.

If you're tempted to compare how you felt yesterday with how you feel today, STOP. Don't let yourself do it. You will feel a pull like gravity - fight it.

It sounds like you're well on your way, but dont' bog down now with self-observing. If you feel anxious, then feel anxious. Period. Then go do something. Don't question why you're anxious or what to do about it. Not at this point in time.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

The worst thing you can do when you start coming out of dp is to compare yourself to how you ever felt in the past. Do not look behind you.

You will have ample time to reflect later - once you are really over all this. But not now.

This is the time, more than ever before, when it's crucial to NOT self-examine. Ignore yourself. As much as humanly possible, keep your mind on other people, subjects, entertainments, interesting topics/ideas (politics, history, literature, whatever your interests are)....keep your mind OFF yourself.

If you're tempted to compare how you felt yesterday with how you feel today, STOP. Don't let yourself do it. You will feel a pull like gravity - fight it.

It sounds like you're well on your way, but dont' bog down now with self-observing. If you feel anxious, then feel anxious. Period. Then go do something. Don't question why you're anxious or what to do about it. Not at this point in time.

Peace,
Janine


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

thanks for the advice. i'm working on allowing myself not to reflect if that makes sense


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

thanks for the advice. i'm working on allowing myself not to reflect if that makes sense


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Yep, again Im confused. I know I always post about this issue. The thing I can't get to grips with is this :

There are underlying reasons for our anxiety/dp. For instance as you mention in your book Janine, a conflict in beliefs that pose a threat to our ego. Now, I am lifting up out of dp also, have been almost dp free for the last few weeks. Now, if I was dp'd because of underlying issues, and now the dp is gone, is that because I have resolved those issues? If not, does that mean the issue is still there, and I am just ignoring it? That is why I find it hard to just crack on with it. By going around feeling happy and getting back into my normal life, I am just covering up a wound. But, on the other hand, I can quite often dismiss this and think that it is just the dp making me feel this insecurity.

How much of this questioning/ insecurity about ego and 'personality disintegration' as Clare Weeks puts it, is down to dp? As of late, I have been questioning everything from career to clothes, am I being true to myself etc. Or is it that which causes the dp, and is my original problem? I certainly know that once the circle starts, they both exacerbate each other. Chicken and Egg? Who came first?

What is the goal? If I am getting rid of dp, am I curing myself? If the dp is gone and I feel happy have I succeeded in reaching the goal? Or, when dp is gone, and I am much more confident and trust myself to 'do life' do I then go to a psychiatrist to get my brain opened up and my past examined?? If I am happy, does that mean that subconsciously my brain is up to its old tricks? I understand about black and white thinking and the whole host of thought processes that trip us up, I don't feel scared to be myself, theres nothing I want more, and have been for a few weeks now but am I just being tricked into thinking I'm happy? Its this whole 'personality disintegration' thing - its my bone of contention. Is it a by-product of the tricks that my mind is playing on me?

I think when I imagine myself back in June, when everything was ok, that really there was this huge problem I just didn't know it. I imagine the problem was always there, and I just didn't know it. How can this be? I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle, I wasn't 'defective' but occasionally a few issues need to be raised in order to move forward? Sometimes I'm not sure if Im having a sh*t or a shave (as we say in UK - maybe not in US). None of this probably makes sense and I know I always ask the same question. Today has been a tricky one as have had lots of conversations about careers etc which has made me a bit dp so this conundrum has raised its ugly head again. The conundrum of why? If I knew why then it'd be ok. Other times I think it's all a load of bullsh*t.

I know there are some people on this forum who believe that dp is almost just a biological/neurological thing for them and by not tuning into, it goes away. Like that Elaine Maxwell who's story I posted. I have always thought like this, and it has worked. Until I discovered the nature of dissociation and why people do it, so the looking for 'reasons' perpetuates my problem, I tear apart events/incidents/people to analyse and think how they may have affected me. Before this, my moto was a problem's not a problem until you make it one. Now I have the distinct feeling I may be doing the opposite.

What is the goal here? Does anyboy else know what I mean cos I can't see that I've made much sense. Sorry to ramble.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Yep, again Im confused. I know I always post about this issue. The thing I can't get to grips with is this :

There are underlying reasons for our anxiety/dp. For instance as you mention in your book Janine, a conflict in beliefs that pose a threat to our ego. Now, I am lifting up out of dp also, have been almost dp free for the last few weeks. Now, if I was dp'd because of underlying issues, and now the dp is gone, is that because I have resolved those issues? If not, does that mean the issue is still there, and I am just ignoring it? That is why I find it hard to just crack on with it. By going around feeling happy and getting back into my normal life, I am just covering up a wound. But, on the other hand, I can quite often dismiss this and think that it is just the dp making me feel this insecurity.

How much of this questioning/ insecurity about ego and 'personality disintegration' as Clare Weeks puts it, is down to dp? As of late, I have been questioning everything from career to clothes, am I being true to myself etc. Or is it that which causes the dp, and is my original problem? I certainly know that once the circle starts, they both exacerbate each other. Chicken and Egg? Who came first?

What is the goal? If I am getting rid of dp, am I curing myself? If the dp is gone and I feel happy have I succeeded in reaching the goal? Or, when dp is gone, and I am much more confident and trust myself to 'do life' do I then go to a psychiatrist to get my brain opened up and my past examined?? If I am happy, does that mean that subconsciously my brain is up to its old tricks? I understand about black and white thinking and the whole host of thought processes that trip us up, I don't feel scared to be myself, theres nothing I want more, and have been for a few weeks now but am I just being tricked into thinking I'm happy? Its this whole 'personality disintegration' thing - its my bone of contention. Is it a by-product of the tricks that my mind is playing on me?

I think when I imagine myself back in June, when everything was ok, that really there was this huge problem I just didn't know it. I imagine the problem was always there, and I just didn't know it. How can this be? I guess the truth is somewhere in the middle, I wasn't 'defective' but occasionally a few issues need to be raised in order to move forward? Sometimes I'm not sure if Im having a sh*t or a shave (as we say in UK - maybe not in US). None of this probably makes sense and I know I always ask the same question. Today has been a tricky one as have had lots of conversations about careers etc which has made me a bit dp so this conundrum has raised its ugly head again. The conundrum of why? If I knew why then it'd be ok. Other times I think it's all a load of bullsh*t.

I know there are some people on this forum who believe that dp is almost just a biological/neurological thing for them and by not tuning into, it goes away. Like that Elaine Maxwell who's story I posted. I have always thought like this, and it has worked. Until I discovered the nature of dissociation and why people do it, so the looking for 'reasons' perpetuates my problem, I tear apart events/incidents/people to analyse and think how they may have affected me. Before this, my moto was a problem's not a problem until you make it one. Now I have the distinct feeling I may be doing the opposite.

What is the goal here? Does anyboy else know what I mean cos I can't see that I've made much sense. Sorry to ramble.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

First of all, IT'S GREAT to hear of all of you coming OUT OF DP!!!!  :!:  :!: That is such wonderful, encouraging news!!! You are all an inspiration!!!

I've been reading on 3 different forums about dp/dr. I was really under the impression that it is an anxiety disease. Yet, I'm finding that may not always hold true, if dp/dr is the primary illness.

I know for me, it's anxiety related. It has come out of nowhere before in my teens and not lasted long. But this time was chronic 24/7 debilitating derealization that gripped me after a panic attack. I've had a few relapses of panic followed again by derealization. Now when I feel a panic coming on and that feeling of derealization that accumpanies it , I quickly take a Xanex sublingually and it brings me back down to earth. I start to feel derealization coming on and the Xanex just makes me feel "normal" again. Xanex directly attacks anxiety. So, I connect my derealization to anxiety.

I don't think I have abuse issues as a child. There is depression and mental illness in some of my family. My mom suffered from depression bouts and I'm sure now has always suffered a mild depression all her life as she is miserable to live with. (I guess that's abusive?) Both my older sisters have issues, so I do believe it's at least in our family genes.

Again, I don't feel this is a black and white thing. And it seems that hormones play a big part in our mental state as well.

Carla


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

First of all, IT'S GREAT to hear of all of you coming OUT OF DP!!!!  :!:  :!: That is such wonderful, encouraging news!!! You are all an inspiration!!!

I've been reading on 3 different forums about dp/dr. I was really under the impression that it is an anxiety disease. Yet, I'm finding that may not always hold true, if dp/dr is the primary illness.

I know for me, it's anxiety related. It has come out of nowhere before in my teens and not lasted long. But this time was chronic 24/7 debilitating derealization that gripped me after a panic attack. I've had a few relapses of panic followed again by derealization. Now when I feel a panic coming on and that feeling of derealization that accumpanies it , I quickly take a Xanex sublingually and it brings me back down to earth. I start to feel derealization coming on and the Xanex just makes me feel "normal" again. Xanex directly attacks anxiety. So, I connect my derealization to anxiety.

I don't think I have abuse issues as a child. There is depression and mental illness in some of my family. My mom suffered from depression bouts and I'm sure now has always suffered a mild depression all her life as she is miserable to live with. (I guess that's abusive?) Both my older sisters have issues, so I do believe it's at least in our family genes.

Again, I don't feel this is a black and white thing. And it seems that hormones play a big part in our mental state as well.

Carla


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Dear G-Funk with the very cute kitten,
Okay. Now.....where do I start? You want a diagnosis? LOL....let's just say "obsessive" would be in there somewhere, grin.

First, it's not that one "needs" to go to a therapist and open up the past. Very very few people have traumas locked somewhere in their childhood. The past is useful, only because the more a therapist knows about you and how you came to be the way you, how you think, how you've always thought, how that thinking changes with time, etc...useful.

But the keys to the kind of self-growth/self-undertanding that I talk about have to do with how you are NOW, not about anything that may have happened to you years ago.

Here's my hunch: if the dp goes away, fantastic. But...it is pretty rare for someone to have a crippling breakdown, recover without really knowing why and then go on to a happy and un-symptomatic life.

Whatever invoked the dp might invoke it again down the line. Might NOT. But logic ain't on your side.

It sounds like your dp fades when your self-esteem skyrockets. I was similar, by the way. As long as I felt safe within myself, when I was pumping myself up and believing I had the world by the tail and could do/be anything I desired...when my moments were filled with utter potential and invincible feelings...the dp was very minimal.

The next shattering injury to that tightly-wound little happy delusion would then send me back into the spiral.

 Also, don't torment yourself with "why am I more dp'd today? or why was the dp worse last night? what happend that made it worse?" There may not be an answer. Once we open the portal to powerful dissociation, we might have ups and downs and wild shifts in it NOT related to any particular thought or experience.

There is usually a root cause for the onset of the symptoms, but not necessarily any direct cause for fluctuations within the mind state once one starts the horrible descent.

Point is this: nothing horribly wrong with feeling better, trying to not obsess and then just going on with life. But....if you feel it start to return, the way out might involve learning more about yourself.

Also, it's sooo tricky and so hard to explain, but symptoms are often caused not by WHAT we think but by the PROCESS of HOW we think. Defenses, masks, self-lies, knowing and not knowing, seeing and not seeing, games we play with ourselves to cover up feelings of low self-worth all produce PROCESSES within our thought construction that very very often pave the road for symptoms like dp/dr, anxiety and obsessiveness.

I don't know HOW to tell anyone to get at that without doing therapy. It involves a kind of structural change within self, a reworking of how we think - that may have gotten stalled when we invoked some very precarious methods of coping.

I know it all sounds so jargony, lol....sorry. I just know it can work.

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Dear G-Funk with the very cute kitten,
Okay. Now.....where do I start? You want a diagnosis? LOL....let's just say "obsessive" would be in there somewhere, grin.

First, it's not that one "needs" to go to a therapist and open up the past. Very very few people have traumas locked somewhere in their childhood. The past is useful, only because the more a therapist knows about you and how you came to be the way you, how you think, how you've always thought, how that thinking changes with time, etc...useful.

But the keys to the kind of self-growth/self-undertanding that I talk about have to do with how you are NOW, not about anything that may have happened to you years ago.

Here's my hunch: if the dp goes away, fantastic. But...it is pretty rare for someone to have a crippling breakdown, recover without really knowing why and then go on to a happy and un-symptomatic life.

Whatever invoked the dp might invoke it again down the line. Might NOT. But logic ain't on your side.

It sounds like your dp fades when your self-esteem skyrockets. I was similar, by the way. As long as I felt safe within myself, when I was pumping myself up and believing I had the world by the tail and could do/be anything I desired...when my moments were filled with utter potential and invincible feelings...the dp was very minimal.

The next shattering injury to that tightly-wound little happy delusion would then send me back into the spiral.

Also, don't torment yourself with "why am I more dp'd today? or why was the dp worse last night? what happend that made it worse?" There may not be an answer. Once we open the portal to powerful dissociation, we might have ups and downs and wild shifts in it NOT related to any particular thought or experience.

There is usually a root cause for the onset of the symptoms, but not necessarily any direct cause for fluctuations within the mind state once one starts the horrible descent.

Point is this: nothing horribly wrong with feeling better, trying to not obsess and then just going on with life. But....if you feel it start to return, the way out might involve learning more about yourself.

Also, it's sooo tricky and so hard to explain, but symptoms are often caused not by WHAT we think but by the PROCESS of HOW we think. Defenses, masks, self-lies, knowing and not knowing, seeing and not seeing, games we play with ourselves to cover up feelings of low self-worth all produce PROCESSES within our thought construction that very very often pave the road for symptoms like dp/dr, anxiety and obsessiveness.

I don't know HOW to tell anyone to get at that without doing therapy. It involves a kind of structural change within self, a reworking of how we think - that may have gotten stalled when we invoked some very precarious methods of coping.

I know it all sounds so jargony, lol....sorry. I just know it can work.

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

so you only had DP for two months & just came out of it???


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

so you only had DP for two months & just came out of it???


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

Yes, I was 2 months 24/7 dp'ed, and then it gradually lifted within a couple of weeks. I'm still strugglering with anxiety along with dp comes and goes, but I no longer obsess about it and tune into it. I know I should be lucky it lifted for me relatively fast..


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

Yes, I was 2 months 24/7 dp'ed, and then it gradually lifted within a couple of weeks. I'm still strugglering with anxiety along with dp comes and goes, but I no longer obsess about it and tune into it. I know I should be lucky it lifted for me relatively fast..


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

^ wow your lucky

i mean compared to people who have had it for alot longer than 2 months, like me


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

^ wow your lucky

i mean compared to people who have had it for alot longer than 2 months, like me


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Yeah mine was only bad for about that time. But it was really bad, like I could barely do anything, apart from cry. For some reason, I developed an ability to (occasionally), go through a series of quotes/positive statements that made sense to me, and force myself to see the logic. Demand myself to see that the dp was not real and there was nothing to be afraid of. Didn't work everytime, but quite often it just clicked. For me, anxiety is very closely wound into it, and reading Clare Weeks was the biggest help. The whole thing about 'fear'. I somehow forced myself to remember that other people don't live in constant fear. And as Clare Weeks puts it (I am on no commission for this book, though I should be the amount of times I push it) 'There is no precipice to fall off'. I no longer carry her book in my handbag, I no longer read these statements to myself day in day out. The 'dp' is no longer the biggest problem. It is the confusing aftermath. I could quite easily dismiss everything like a bad dream and get on with it. But I'm not going to.

Thing is Janine, I wouldnt say that I feel full of confidence and self esteem, I feel very much jaded by this whole incident but almost a little more enlightened by it. I've had the chance to look closely at myself, and whilst Im still weak from being knocked down, I almost have a calm sense of plodding through, making it through and becoming a better person for it. I feel safer in myself. I wouldnt say I felt invincible though! Back when I did have bad dp, when it occasionally lifted, I did indeed feel that extreme invincibilty, that I had cracked it and that I couldn't possibly go back. Now I feel much more on an even keel, no extremes, I know the dp can and will come back, but I also know that it will go and that I can deal with it. And that is to ignore it, it is only a sensation and not to believe my thoughts when dp'd. The 'dp' is no longer the biggest problem. It is the confusing aftermath. Perhaps I have learnt more about myself than I realise, even just knowing what dp is changed my life.

From now on, Im just going to get on with it and stop berating myself for feeling better. The dp for me is a symtpom of something, probably anxiety. So I am going to ignore this bullshit dp, stop trying to read into it and meanwhile conquer the reason I get it. Have emailed a psychologist to ask if he knows anything about dp or anybody who does. Its all systems go as they say


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Yeah mine was only bad for about that time. But it was really bad, like I could barely do anything, apart from cry. For some reason, I developed an ability to (occasionally), go through a series of quotes/positive statements that made sense to me, and force myself to see the logic. Demand myself to see that the dp was not real and there was nothing to be afraid of. Didn't work everytime, but quite often it just clicked. For me, anxiety is very closely wound into it, and reading Clare Weeks was the biggest help. The whole thing about 'fear'. I somehow forced myself to remember that other people don't live in constant fear. And as Clare Weeks puts it (I am on no commission for this book, though I should be the amount of times I push it) 'There is no precipice to fall off'. I no longer carry her book in my handbag, I no longer read these statements to myself day in day out. The 'dp' is no longer the biggest problem. It is the confusing aftermath. I could quite easily dismiss everything like a bad dream and get on with it. But I'm not going to.

Thing is Janine, I wouldnt say that I feel full of confidence and self esteem, I feel very much jaded by this whole incident but almost a little more enlightened by it. I've had the chance to look closely at myself, and whilst Im still weak from being knocked down, I almost have a calm sense of plodding through, making it through and becoming a better person for it. I feel safer in myself. I wouldnt say I felt invincible though! Back when I did have bad dp, when it occasionally lifted, I did indeed feel that extreme invincibilty, that I had cracked it and that I couldn't possibly go back. Now I feel much more on an even keel, no extremes, I know the dp can and will come back, but I also know that it will go and that I can deal with it. And that is to ignore it, it is only a sensation and not to believe my thoughts when dp'd. The 'dp' is no longer the biggest problem. It is the confusing aftermath. Perhaps I have learnt more about myself than I realise, even just knowing what dp is changed my life.

From now on, Im just going to get on with it and stop berating myself for feeling better. The dp for me is a symtpom of something, probably anxiety. So I am going to ignore this bullshit dp, stop trying to read into it and meanwhile conquer the reason I get it. Have emailed a psychologist to ask if he knows anything about dp or anybody who does. Its all systems go as they say


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

DAMN IT!

I bloody well spoke too soon. Since writing that, I have just got more and more dp'd. Nothing like before, but am feeling a bit scared. General confusion over everything. One thing, it has highlighted just how well I was doing though, Im annoyed with myself for taking it for granted and not realising it. But, I keep thinking, the past few weeks are not the real me, Ive been walking round ignoring all these thoughts that are now in my head. Which makes me believe I have to 'sort out' whats in my head. Then all of a sudden its clear, there is nothing to worry about, then it goes again. Why am I getting this? Its because Im trying to find the bloody answer all the time! Sometimes this site confuses me. Sometimes I think that I am fuelling this dp thing and the best thing to do is to not worry any further than how to keep it at bay, and stop dissecting everything to figure out WHY. Because all the time, by trying to find out why, even when not dp, Im just confirming that there is something 'wrong' with me when there might not be. Im honestly beginning to believe that that might be the way to handle it.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

DAMN IT!

I bloody well spoke too soon. Since writing that, I have just got more and more dp'd. Nothing like before, but am feeling a bit scared. General confusion over everything. One thing, it has highlighted just how well I was doing though, Im annoyed with myself for taking it for granted and not realising it. But, I keep thinking, the past few weeks are not the real me, Ive been walking round ignoring all these thoughts that are now in my head. Which makes me believe I have to 'sort out' whats in my head. Then all of a sudden its clear, there is nothing to worry about, then it goes again. Why am I getting this? Its because Im trying to find the bloody answer all the time! Sometimes this site confuses me. Sometimes I think that I am fuelling this dp thing and the best thing to do is to not worry any further than how to keep it at bay, and stop dissecting everything to figure out WHY. Because all the time, by trying to find out why, even when not dp, Im just confirming that there is something 'wrong' with me when there might not be. Im honestly beginning to believe that that might be the way to handle it.


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

Those are all very interesting questions, g-funk..

Thanks for your advice Janine, again. Quess you are so right. The best thing I should do at the moment would be to not compare myself to how I felt in the past, actually should just neglect all MY feelings and emotions for a while.. (as haven't really concentrated on other people's feelings for "a while")

But one thing I just HAVE TO ask. I just don't manage to neglect any issues before I get the certainty that getting over it/recovering is beyond my own will and nothing irreversible. As to believe is the trick to cure..

Is it possible that even though I no longer have dr nor I feel detached from my body, the one thing that remains is that I still feel some kind of weird detachment from my'Self' and the mental processes. Still feel some strangeness and disconnected from my sense of self, and somewhat empty as well. Is it anxiety that causes those kind of sensations? Are they just normal dp-feelings (as that would be a relief as I'm not afraid of it anymore) or could it be something else?

I just managed to read a post about dp and schizofrenia, and got "a bit" scared (read: obsessed) as somebody had some pretty similar sensations... :shock:

Janine and others, please...


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

Those are all very interesting questions, g-funk..

Thanks for your advice Janine, again. Quess you are so right. The best thing I should do at the moment would be to not compare myself to how I felt in the past, actually should just neglect all MY feelings and emotions for a while.. (as haven't really concentrated on other people's feelings for "a while")

But one thing I just HAVE TO ask. I just don't manage to neglect any issues before I get the certainty that getting over it/recovering is beyond my own will and nothing irreversible. As to believe is the trick to cure..

Is it possible that even though I no longer have dr nor I feel detached from my body, the one thing that remains is that I still feel some kind of weird detachment from my'Self' and the mental processes. Still feel some strangeness and disconnected from my sense of self, and somewhat empty as well. Is it anxiety that causes those kind of sensations? Are they just normal dp-feelings (as that would be a relief as I'm not afraid of it anymore) or could it be something else?

I just managed to read a post about dp and schizofrenia, and got "a bit" scared (read: obsessed) as somebody had some pretty similar sensations... :shock:

Janine and others, please...


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Firstly, and Im sure you will get a barrage of responses, you are not Schizophrenic. Absolutely, categorically, no way. The fact you asked the question negates the whole thing. Schizophrenics don't question their perception of reality, they accept it as fact.

Secondly, I can totally relate to what you say Johanna. I too have that slightly unsure of my 'self' feeling. And am wondering if it is because of the dp, or the dp has just highlighted it. I am going to mention Clare Weeks' books again (again, I cringe every time I say her name). She calls it 'personality disintegration' and that if you step aside from self observation, that personality will reconstruct. I may have even quoted Janine somewhere in there. We are still in early days, so are still a little raw. I still analyse the simplest of tasks. Even going to put the kettle on, doesn't fill me with dread like it did before, just a thought may pop into my head, and I feel the need to examine that mental process. If the thought hadn't popped into my head, it would have gone on as usual. Since, the thought did pop into my head, I feel the need to explore. What I have to do at that point is say no, just because its there, doesn't mean its rational. If I do that enough and effectively, eventually the thought won't even pop into my head.

Now, this is where i trip up.

As you know, today has been not so good. Now I am feeling better. This 'glimpse' of dp whilst in generally in a stronger frame of mind, has enabled me to look at it objectively. Almost from an outsider's point of view, if I dare to use that analogy for a dissociative event! My dp is pure brain fog, no 'weird' thoughts, no magical thinking, just no 'normal' thoughts. Obsessive thinking on ...absolutely nothing, just confusion on normal mental thought processes. No dr. So how do I read into my symptoms Janine?!?!?!?!? 
I have obviously developed illogical thought patterns. CBT is sounding more and more like the answer.

Sorry for the rant. AGAIN!

Anybody else relate to this?


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Firstly, and Im sure you will get a barrage of responses, you are not Schizophrenic. Absolutely, categorically, no way. The fact you asked the question negates the whole thing. Schizophrenics don't question their perception of reality, they accept it as fact.

Secondly, I can totally relate to what you say Johanna. I too have that slightly unsure of my 'self' feeling. And am wondering if it is because of the dp, or the dp has just highlighted it. I am going to mention Clare Weeks' books again (again, I cringe every time I say her name). She calls it 'personality disintegration' and that if you step aside from self observation, that personality will reconstruct. I may have even quoted Janine somewhere in there. We are still in early days, so are still a little raw. I still analyse the simplest of tasks. Even going to put the kettle on, doesn't fill me with dread like it did before, just a thought may pop into my head, and I feel the need to examine that mental process. If the thought hadn't popped into my head, it would have gone on as usual. Since, the thought did pop into my head, I feel the need to explore. What I have to do at that point is say no, just because its there, doesn't mean its rational. If I do that enough and effectively, eventually the thought won't even pop into my head.

Now, this is where i trip up.

As you know, today has been not so good. Now I am feeling better. This 'glimpse' of dp whilst in generally in a stronger frame of mind, has enabled me to look at it objectively. Almost from an outsider's point of view, if I dare to use that analogy for a dissociative event! My dp is pure brain fog, no 'weird' thoughts, no magical thinking, just no 'normal' thoughts. Obsessive thinking on ...absolutely nothing, just confusion on normal mental thought processes. No dr. So how do I read into my symptoms Janine?!?!?!?!? 
I have obviously developed illogical thought patterns. CBT is sounding more and more like the answer.

Sorry for the rant. AGAIN!

Anybody else relate to this?


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2004)

OKay, listen to the obsessive girl with the cute kitten: you are NOT in any possible way schizophrenic, Johanna. Utterly ridiculous. Am I schizophrenic? You are no more schizophrenic than I am. End of "S" discussion, grin.

Okay, this answer is to both G-Funk and J: (also, I adore Claire Weekes, never apologize for mentioning her. Have I told you that my new agent used to be her agent? I was ecstatic when I found that out!)

Both of you ladies are doing basically the same thing. First, you're trying to determine "where you are" in dp land as if this is some ocean with coordination points. "I am now at a longitude of 86 South, much closer to recovery land than this time last fortnight...but today I seemed to drift towards a reading of 149 degrees Westward..."

This is a mental state, not measurable geography.

Both of you are doing much much better. And both of you are still in some symptoms. THAT is your dual diagnoses, grin....when you begin questioning where you are in relation to the North Star, please re-read my status report.

Recovery is not steady. It's up and down and back and forth and steps ahead and stumbles back. Don't try to measure it.

At any point that you find yourselves trying to evaluate simple tasks, or ideas, or feelings...STOP. Read a recipe or call a friend or walk the dog (only if you have one, grin), or look in a closet top shelf that you haven't seen in a while.

You will still try to trick me, and yourselves. You will find yourselves saying "well, yeah, that's true..but now I'm feeling BETTER than yesterday, so this is not negative or self-destructive, this is productive to examine HOW I'm viewing this task so I can duplicate it!" sneaky. sneaky, sneaky little people, both of you.

DO NOT SELF-EXAMINE.

DO NOT EVALUATE HOW MUCH YOU ARE OR ARE NOT EXAMINING.

DO NOT SLIENTLY COMMENT ON THE "NORMALCY" FACTOR OF YOUR EVERY ACTION.

When you start to do those things, say "this is what happens when people recover. And it's a mind trick. Keep moving."

Then keep moving.

Make any sense?

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2004)

OKay, listen to the obsessive girl with the cute kitten: you are NOT in any possible way schizophrenic, Johanna. Utterly ridiculous. Am I schizophrenic? You are no more schizophrenic than I am. End of "S" discussion, grin.

Okay, this answer is to both G-Funk and J: (also, I adore Claire Weekes, never apologize for mentioning her. Have I told you that my new agent used to be her agent? I was ecstatic when I found that out!)

Both of you ladies are doing basically the same thing. First, you're trying to determine "where you are" in dp land as if this is some ocean with coordination points. "I am now at a longitude of 86 South, much closer to recovery land than this time last fortnight...but today I seemed to drift towards a reading of 149 degrees Westward..."

This is a mental state, not measurable geography.

Both of you are doing much much better. And both of you are still in some symptoms. THAT is your dual diagnoses, grin....when you begin questioning where you are in relation to the North Star, please re-read my status report.

Recovery is not steady. It's up and down and back and forth and steps ahead and stumbles back. Don't try to measure it.

At any point that you find yourselves trying to evaluate simple tasks, or ideas, or feelings...STOP. Read a recipe or call a friend or walk the dog (only if you have one, grin), or look in a closet top shelf that you haven't seen in a while.

You will still try to trick me, and yourselves. You will find yourselves saying "well, yeah, that's true..but now I'm feeling BETTER than yesterday, so this is not negative or self-destructive, this is productive to examine HOW I'm viewing this task so I can duplicate it!" sneaky. sneaky, sneaky little people, both of you.

DO NOT SELF-EXAMINE.

DO NOT EVALUATE HOW MUCH YOU ARE OR ARE NOT EXAMINING.

DO NOT SLIENTLY COMMENT ON THE "NORMALCY" FACTOR OF YOUR EVERY ACTION.

When you start to do those things, say "this is what happens when people recover. And it's a mind trick. Keep moving."

Then keep moving.

Make any sense?

Peace,
J


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

That does make sence. *admits humbly* I think there are two obsessed girls here who are skittish about their sensations and really needed those words. (sorry for speaking on your behalf also, g-funk 8) )

There would be a lot to comment that aroused thoughts, but I'm in a hurry now. Im gonna do it later.

Brain fog is a perfect way to put it, g-funk. And by fog I don't mean visual, eyesight-related fog or distortion (you haven't got that either?), only thoughts are muddled and disorganized, lack of clarity and wholeness. Stepping aside from observation should be the key...

Now this Claire Weeks really aroused my interest. Has she written several books? Could you give me some names and recommendations g-funk? I'd appreciate.


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

That does make sence. *admits humbly* I think there are two obsessed girls here who are skittish about their sensations and really needed those words. (sorry for speaking on your behalf also, g-funk 8) )

There would be a lot to comment that aroused thoughts, but I'm in a hurry now. Im gonna do it later.

Brain fog is a perfect way to put it, g-funk. And by fog I don't mean visual, eyesight-related fog or distortion (you haven't got that either?), only thoughts are muddled and disorganized, lack of clarity and wholeness. Stepping aside from observation should be the key...

Now this Claire Weeks really aroused my interest. Has she written several books? Could you give me some names and recommendations g-funk? I'd appreciate.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

We sound like we are at pretty much the same place in all of this. Brain fog is actually erm, dare I say it, a quote from guess who? CLARE WEEKS!!!!!!!!

The two books I have are Essential Help for your Nerves and Self-Help for your nerves. When purchasing, mention my name as I get ?25 for every...(JOKE!)


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

We sound like we are at pretty much the same place in all of this. Brain fog is actually erm, dare I say it, a quote from guess who? CLARE WEEKS!!!!!!!!

The two books I have are Essential Help for your Nerves and Self-Help for your nerves. When purchasing, mention my name as I get ?25 for every...(JOKE!)


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