# To Homeskooled - clarification :)



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Home,
We've been through this before. I really respect your attitude about your faith and you are more than entitled to it. I believe everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs as long as they aren't forced upon others, used as a weapon, misused as seems to be the case in this current administration.

At any rate, I just wanted to clarify the concept again (I did say this in the other crazy thread but I want to be clear).

You know I am of no particular religion though I find value in the Old Testament (Judaism) and the teachings of Buddhism. And I am agnostic, not willing to dismiss what I am not certain about, but that which I have clear doubts about, that don't make sense to me, that seem persecutory, etc.

Regarding women though. Ideally, yes, I think that in the perfect situation, as a woman -- and I speak only for myself -- I believe being a mother and staying at home and taking care of children is extremely important. But that is a personal choice. I see many families where this works beautifully, I see others, even in religious families/Christian families where this doesn't work.

As beachgirl said somewhere else, I believe one can live a life of compassion, a moral life, etc. without needing to follow a specific doctrine. I see various religions in modern society as a guide. I also see religious rituals and gatherings as important ways to bring family and community together. I have no problems with that.

But again, when you said that women are trying to imitate men when they work. These days at least considering my peers, this is absolutely not the case. I went to a private school, I have a BA and MA. These things were valued in my community for both men and women.

Why would we women get an education in anything from music to education to medicine to law to social work at the university level if we weren't interested in pursuing academia and a career. That is a right women have fought for... simply being educated.

And college is a wonderful place to meet one's soulmate. To date, to get to know other people from other ways of life, to sometimes change one's POV on things. But my friends at University, the gang I hung with, we all got degrees. We all married (well not all, and that's cool too, and some are gay!) and every one of the women work and are pursuing the career they dedicated themselves to. They are also good moms and the husbands contribute to the childrearing. It's a double duty lifestyle and is extremely fulfilling. One roommate I had got a degree in French and Library Science. She moved to France, married a Frenchman, works and has kids! She is extremely religious. A Catholic.

And in this day and age as I said a one income family is great if the husband is pulling in the big bucks, but I don't know one family these days (with kids at university!) who can afford to live this way and be able to retire without worrying about caring for themselves when they retire.

Also, if a woman is not skilled in something that brings her an income, what happens if the provider dies, leaves, becomes disabled ... I have a few women friends who are divorced... one, her husband cheated on her, married his mistress, declared bankruptcy and she is paying child support. He is an example of a vicious man, a horrible person. Meantime he has more children with the new wife who works. Though he is a computer engineer he has chosen to work less than his wife. He is also an Episocpalian who in theory is very religious. My girlfriend is far more religous than he is.

NOT ALL MEN ARE LIKE THIS, but if my girlfriend did not have an education and skills to support herself and her son, she'd be inserious trouble.

One simply can't depend on only ONE RIGHT WAY of living. We all do the best we can with whatever gives us structure and strength.

Some women I know refuse to go to work. They only want to be moms and do activieis such as being Board members of the local school, volunteering in various ways. They also have rich full lives. Their husbands are also extremely wealthy. This is again the mindset in the very high-income upper class suburb I grew up in. This was the goal of some women, but not all.

I say, again, to each his own as long as it isn't hurtful to anyone. As long as an individual contributes to society in a positive way. Doesn't break the law, etc. And no one is perfect. All of this takes effort. Many people religious or not do not live this way.

I guess it is hurtful to hear certain assumptions or generalizations.

And again, I value men, I admire men, I care about a number of men in my life very much. I respect them, and they respect me.

I hope this makes a tad more sense.

Just needed to say this.
Peace,
D


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Dreamer, 
I havent looked at the other thread yet today, but I going to reply to this as I beleive this is probably your final draft of your thoughts. My view of the differences between men and women isnt founded on anything religious - these are just my thoughts and observations, although based on my particular personality and philosophical lilt. I actually agree with your point - women should pursue education and work skills for the simple sake that women need them, just as men do. My point is that feminism seems to have lost any interest in celebrating attributes which are unique to women - including the ability to empathize, among other things - with what I think is a race to "catch up with men in the workplace". They're thinking is that being the same equals equality. My point is that being different equals it too. In my post, I made it clear that many women can excel in these fields. But I think alot choose to do so because this is what society tells them finally makes them "equal". This is what gives them their self-worth. And in the end, the tactics used by feminism to acheive this only seem to devalue men, and push aside what I believe is their natural role. Now what I'm saying is counter-cultural, dont get me wrong - I am making a stand that I believe that men are _naturally_ given the attributes to be excellent providers and that _naturally_ women have the attributes which make them the better nurturers. I'm absolutely positive that this is something many, many women will disagree with me on. But I cant stand around and lie for the sake of peer approval about qualities that I see daily in both sexes. Men want to be admired as providers, and women want to feel secure, safe, and provided for. When this is pushed aside, I think that both sexes suffer. It has nothing to do with either sex being unequal - that is, unless you define equality as being the same. I dont mean to make any woman out there feel small, or inadequate, or as if they should not be working. I have a great deal of respect, love, and admiration for women, and I only hope that more women can accept this "natural feminism" as an expression of such.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Oh, okay Dreamer. I just read the thread. I didnt mean to wind you up on that thread! Yes, I still cant access that link, and I'm sure its a rather extreme article on sexual positions or something, since it used the word submissive. This is what makes me so comfortable being a Catholic, because we dont get into the nitty-gritty of biblical interpretation. Much more important is one's motives that motivate our actions. This is why so many thousands of hours were put into philosophy in Catholicism - the why's of human existence. I spent about 4 hours in the car with two monk friends of mine yesterday - I'm taking care of the one with brain cancer, and I really hope he's going to make it. I'm taking him to the Cleveland Clinic, because their radiation oncology is superb. Anyways, we had a fantastic talk about the religous life, being a priest, a bishop, working at the Vatican. Its truly amazing. The one priest, Fr. Vit, knows alot about working at the Vatican in the archives, as a secretary, or the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. I've thought of being a priest before, and of working at the Vatican. I've also thought of being a Canon Lawyer, the people that know the internal law of the Catholic Church.....Got me thinking. Still, it'd be tough being celibate for my entire life, but the spiritual and internal rewards are probably great....Well, anyways, I'll have to reply on the other thread because although I respect Mr Mortgage, I dont always agree with him.

peace
Homeskooled


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

You know ironically we are really in total agreement.

1. Biologically, and I'll get nailed for this, I do believe the ideal scenario is man as provider, woman as mother. I believe ideally I would have chosen this for myself if my life hadn't taken so many wrong turns.

I do believe men and women are biologically programmed for these specific duties and that is the ideal complementary relationship... absolutely.

2. I also have a serious problem with feminism. I detest Gloria Steinham, sp? Can't even spell her name. I detest women who DO believe that true equality is acheived in this artificial sense which indeed has been forced on women. Many women are miserable to find that after a career of a decade or more they find that by 40 they cannot have children ... physically.

3. What I agree with is the right for women to achieve whatever they can. And some women surpass men in intellectual pursuits, business, entertainment, education, you name it.

I also believe women excel in certain areas and men in others career wise, again reflecting different ways of thinking ... literally from a biological sense .... I truly believe this.

I do not see it in a RELIGIOUS sense is where we disagree on that, though religions do reinforce what is indeed already there, in biology. This is my firm belief.

I just hope you understand that the women I know, who are presently in their late forties upward ... they truly wanted to pursue their careers. Perhaps it was the peer group I grew up with, the social class as I mentioned before. And I again was the black sheep, I think the ONLY one without religous Faith of one form or another.

But these women were not feminists. I don't hang with feminists. I think they are more a product of the 60's when changes HAD to be made ... a huge time of change. The women had sexual freedom for the first time because of The Pill, etc. I won't go into all that.

I was only a young child in those years. My generation let go of some of that, but I'd hazard a guess, and I may be wrong, that the average woman values family most, as does the average man. Family first.

I will say this. There is a strange phenomena at many universities in the U.S. -- Ivy League, high level state Universities. Faculty are far more into the concept of Sociobiology... is that the word. They are extremely left-wing, and the professors, particularly the women are of this feminist bent.

I don't want to make any sweeping generalizations about that, but it is my current understanding.

So again, we really do agree.

I was however incensed by Mr. Mortgage -- no name calling -- but by his extreme POV. Your comments got mixed in with that thread, and I was responding sometimes to you and other times to him.

I appreciate having a civil discussion with you! My greatest sadness is in not being a mother, and by now perhaps a grandmother. I see now I would have been satisfied with that role and would have continued with my music most likely, volunteering etc. Those things were not in the cards for me. So it goes.

I hope the life you desire becomes a reality. I believe it will.
Best,
D 8)


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## Milan (May 29, 2005)

Dreamer,

You have a lot of love to give. You must have thought of adoption and if you don't mind me asking, what is stopping you? The best thing I've done in my life is having a child and becoming a father (even with anxiety/DP/DR). I wish everyone could feel the joy and satisfaction (plus grief) that a child brings to your life. Just curious.

Oh and Homeskooled I want to say that I do respect your devotion and interpretation of the Catholic faith. I probably come across too hard with my opinions about Catholicism having lost my way with the faith over the years. I am also envious of those who believe and find comfort and solace in their faith (including my parents who are very devout Catholics). Who knows, there just may be a time in my life where my faith may be reignited.

It would be fantastic to sit down over a cup of coffee and discuss this subject further where you may well shine a unique perspective on Catholicism and possibly spark my interest in the faith again. Some where deep inside my there is this angst that wants to believe to quell my fears of death and uncertainty but I'm too much of a sceptic these days to make myself believe. Maybe sometime in the future we just may cross paths and have that espresso.

Kind regards,

Milan


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## MrMortgage (Aug 26, 2005)

Milan said:


> Dreamer,
> 
> You have a lot of love to give. You must have thought of adoption and if you don't mind me asking, what is stopping you? The best thing I've done in my life is having a child and becoming a father (even with anxiety/DP/DR). I wish everyone could feel the joy and satisfaction (plus grief) that a child brings to your life. Just curious.
> 
> ...


Milan something about what you said earlier in another topic sounded like me about 3 years ago....I went to church just because it felt good and I like the stories and the order. It was just plain entertaining and something to talk about.

Now I'm still just a young punk but I know where youre coming from, even though I went to church I really didnt think there was a God, I just thought it was a cool thing to do. And I thought it was the right thing to do.

But now I see it all different, and I bet a phycologist could explain why :roll: and everyone would believe him/her because they went to school for 12 years at Harvard for it. :roll:

But seriously though, I've been there.


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