# Saw Dr Simeon



## gmichael (Aug 16, 2005)

Hi everyone, I have been on Lexapro for about two years and though it helped my DP slightly the side effects made it impossible to stay on. The blunting and the sexual side effects. I have been off of it now for about 7 months. My Dr put me on Klonopin .5 once at night and I have been feeling electrical shocks and some impending doom feelings. Also the DP kicked into high gear. I wanted to know if the Klonopin is adding to the DP stressing me out or if I am not on enough Klonopin?(been on it about 6 months) I am very sensitive to meds, I could only get to 7.5 Mlg of the Lexapro. I recently saw Dr Simeon because I am really tire of this and will do whatever it takes to beat it. She actually suggested Pamelor. Which I was on 20 years ago and did quite well. My Dr. rejected the med saying it can cause tachacardia and terrible side effects. Any Pamelor users? Any words of wisdom?
Thanks
Greg


----------



## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

gmichael said:


> Hi everyone, I have been on Lexapro for about two years and though it helped my DP slightly the side effects made it impossible to stay on. The blunting and the sexual side effects. I have been off of it now for about 7 months. My Dr put me on Klonopin .5 once at night and I have been feeling electrical shocks and some impending doom feelings. Also the DP kicked into high gear. I wanted to know if the Klonopin is adding to the DP stressing me out or if I am not on enough Klonopin?(been on it about 6 months) I am very sensitive to meds, I could only get to 7.5 Mlg of the Lexapro. I recently saw Dr Simeon because I am really tire of this and will do whatever it takes to beat it. She actually suggested Pamelor. Which I was on 20 years ago and did quite well. My Dr. rejected the med saying it can cause tachacardia and terrible side effects. Any Pamelor users? Any words of wisdom?
> Thanks
> Greg


Im not sure what Pamelor is, but I think it's incredibly cool that you got to meet Dr. Simeon. Did you see her in private practice or through a research clinic?


----------



## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

If you have to stay on meds, stick to low dosages of Klonopin or another benzo if that one does not suite you. I would maybe give Pamelor a try since Dr Simeon recommended it, she should get some credit for being a pioneer in this field.

But in the end, pills are bad. Especially in the long run.


----------



## Guest (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm not quite sure why she chose Pamelor, though everyone is different.

Pamelor®
(nortriptyline HCl) Capsules USP 
(nortriptyline HCl) Oral Solution USP

Pamelor is I believe a tricyclic antidepressant, most effective ... for depression. I was on nortriptyline for a few years. It was to "boost my SSRI" -- this was man, 12 years ago. It didn't help my DP/DR anxiety at all, and ... THIS IS ONLY IN MY CASE ... it caused me to become suicidal. I never believed that could actually happen with a med but it did. I felt very suicidal -- which I have felt in the past before any medication (because of the chronic DP/DR before treatment), but after trying twice to go off -- the first time I felt WORSE depression -- the suicidal thoughts faded.

I am not clear where Dr. Simeon is going in her treatment though I can't second guess ANY doctor's decisions on this. EVERYONE IS UNIQUE AND I RESPECT THAT -- PATIENT AND PHYSICIAN.

But, what seems to frequently be most effective ... and has been for me after years of meds trials ... is essentially anti-convulsants/mood stabilizers/and SSRIs for some. Depends on your diagnosis. The old "Klono-Combo" from the IoP has sort of stuck around after all these years. Personally, I am doing the best I can on Lamictal/lamotrigine (mood stabilizer/anticonvulsant), Klonopin/clonazepam (originally anti-convulsant/benzo), Celexa/citalopram (SSRI).

Pamelor AS I UNDERSTAND IT is for depression. The SSRIs AS I UNDERSTAND IT help and focus more on anxiety. But anxiety and depression often come hand in hand and you can''t separate them out.

With me, I am SEVERELY anxious. I think now that I have depression from chronic DP/DR, but those are more under control with the Klonopin and Lamictal. My current doctor (a new medical resident) understands the combination and has no problem with it. And I am not abusing the Klonopin.

HOWEVER if you are not able to handle the Klonopin obviously you need to check out alternatives.

Each case is different. I just don't understand the reasoning behind choosing Pamelor. Did Dr. Simeon explain why ... are you especially depressed? Does she see the DP/DR as being secondary to the depression, etc.

THIS IS ONLY MY EXPERIENCE. AND THE MEDICATONS I'M TAKING WORK FOR ME. I HAVE SEVERE ANXIETY/CHRONIC, AND CHRONIC DP/DR.
EVERYONE'S CASE IS UNIQUE.

Oh, I also experienced head zaps with one drug -- Imipramine (Tofranil I think), an older anti-depressant -- it was a common side-effect with that drug if you missed a dose or two -- I had that at age 16 -- that stuff did nothing for me either. Don't know that I've heard of head zaps with Klonopin, but everyone is different.
Good luck.

D


----------



## Guest (Aug 14, 2010)

gmichael said:


> Hi everyone, I have been on Lexapro for about two years and though it helped my DP slightly the side effects made it impossible to stay on. The blunting and the sexual side effects. I have been off of it now for about 7 months. My Dr put me on Klonopin .5 once at night and I have been feeling electrical shocks and some impending doom feelings. Also the DP kicked into high gear. I wanted to know if the Klonopin is adding to the DP stressing me out or if I am not on enough Klonopin?(been on it about 6 months) I am very sensitive to meds, I could only get to 7.5 Mlg of the Lexapro. I recently saw Dr Simeon because I am really tire of this and will do whatever it takes to beat it. She actually suggested Pamelor. Which I was on 20 years ago and did quite well. My Dr. rejected the med saying it can cause tachacardia and terrible side effects. Any Pamelor users? Any words of wisdom?
> Thanks
> Greg


Dear Greg,
I missed answering the second part. If Pamelor WORKED for you that's great. Now I understand why she would put you back on it. You may be too concerned about side-effects, though again, everyone is different. I always use a risk/benefit determination re: my meds. If you go to RxList.com http://www.rxlist.com I hope that's correct, you will see full info on a drug, from description to side-effects. They always give you a worst case scenario with drugs, and I suppose different individuals can have long term effects vs. others, but this med seems to have been around a long enough time to indicate whether or not people have responded poorly.

If Dr. Simeon put you back on Pamelor, she must feel it is safe? It's a matter always of weighing possible negative side-effects with relief of your symptoms with any medication.

Hey, if it works and she feels confident in your taking it ... then go for it.

Good luck.

Sorry, I read through that too quickly. I also don't think I ever heard re: head shocks on Klonopin. I take 6mg a day and have for about 23 years. No abuse, no head shocks, just a life-saving drug for me which I assume I wlll be on the rest of my life. Who knows?

Best,
D


----------



## gmichael (Aug 16, 2005)

Thanks everyone, I see my Dr. this friday and will let you all know what he says. Just to clarify when I saw Dr. simeon she didnt know I was on Pamelor years ago when she recommended it. She also recommended and older tryciclid that started with a C I will try to remember the name. Again Thank You.


----------



## ElectricRelaxation (May 2, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> D I take 6mg a day and have for about 23 years. No abuse, no head shocks, just a life-saving drug for me which I assume I wlll be on the rest of my life. Who knows?


*
6 mg for 23 years? Wow, thats crazy. Did you ever think of tapering down? ALL benzos siginificantly shorten the human life span. It's funny, I always thought a long term high dose of klonopin would be enough to be a cure Depersonilization with a perfectly executed pill taper when ready to quit the drug. Too bad I have a harm reduction psych who won't let me touch benzos.
*


----------



## Guest (Aug 14, 2010)

ElectricRelaxation said:


> *
> 6 mg for 23 years? Wow, thats crazy. Did you ever think of tapering down? ALL benzos siginificantly shorten the human life span. It's funny, I always thought a long term high dose of klonopin would be enough to be a cure Depersonilization with a perfectly executed pill taper when ready to quit the drug. Too bad I have a harm reduction psych who won't let me touch benzos.
> *


Electric Relaxation, if you read my second response re: the Pamelor I see why the OP wishes to go back to that. In my case, it did cause suicidal thinking.

It is not "crazy" that I am on Klonopin. I do not have any drug-induced DP/DR. I had it since about age 4/5 ... episodic. My family was dysfunctional and abusive. My anxiety STILL is through the roof. Klonopin saved my life when I was about 28. Nothing else worked with severe chronic 24/7 365 days a year DP/DR. I planned suicide at age 30. That dose ... it wasn't until we got to 8MG inititally that I felt a reduction in the DP/DR for the first time in my LIFE. Also it does not "cure" everyone. The reason I have DP/DR is not clear ... not clear re: anyone here. And we are all unique.

I am 51. I know very well that should I need to go off of this I would have to taper for up to 3 years. I plan to take this for the rest of my life. We pulled down from 8mg to 6mg.... at the higher dose no DP/DR improvement was noted, but I was tired. BELOW 6MG my DP/DR again began to get worse. We kept it at 6mg and I have NEVER changed that, by choice, and no doctor has ever questioned that decision. A doctor who was a founding member of the ISSMPD at the time -- now the ISSD-T prescribed this and worked with me. He noted that DP/DR patients at Sheppard Pratt had improvement -- not necessarily a CURE on Klonopin.

It is my choice. Risk/Benefit. I only take my 3 meds.

My psychiatrists over the years are not "HARMFUL" ... I have seen many. NOTHING ELSE HELPED ME. I have also been helped by Lamictal. I know a number of people who have been helped by anti-convulsants.

Please respect MY choice of treatment. I have 51 and lived with this my entire life. It is an informed decision. I do not feel like dying and I lead as normal a life as possible.

If you want to read about my life/story/theories/meds, etc. see http://www.dreamchild.net

PLEASE RESPECT WHAT EVERYONE CHOOSES TO DO. I DIDN'T CLEARLY READ THE OP'S POST AND ANSWERED IN PART NOT RECALLING SPECIFIC INFO.
SOME PEOPLE RESPOND TO ONE DRUG AND NOT TO ANOTHER. I CAN TAKE LARGE DOSES OF ANY TYPE OF TRANQUILIZING DRUG AND HAVE NO REACTION.

I am in control of my treatment. No one need to take my advice. I am not a doctor.

Peace of Mind to All,
D


----------



## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

gmichael said:


> Thanks everyone, I see my Dr. this friday and will let you all know what he says. Just to clarify when I saw Dr. simeon she didnt know I was on Pamelor years ago when she recommended it. She also recommended and older tryciclid that started with a C I will try to remember the name. Again Thank You.


Anafranil (clomipramine) is likely what she recommended....I know she is one of few doctors that have done research on DPD but her trials have such a small sample size and I really do not agree at all with her recommendations of these meds for most DP sufferers. They have horrid side effects and have not been shown to be very effective for this disorder from most accounts(outside of her limited trials). I assume she would know of this site and all the good information that is exchanged here. If not she would do well to get on here and read...we have this shit and collectively have tried every possible psychoactive med there is- and I don't think there are many here that will tell you that ADs especially the older Tricyclics have helped a hell of a lot.


----------



## ElectricRelaxation (May 2, 2010)

*I respect your choices and decisions, after all we all have different bodies and brains and what works for some might not work for others. I was simply stating that SSRI's and Lamactal have severely blunted my emotion and ability to feel love, emotionally or physically, and how an Antagonist might help (which is currently already helping for me







)*


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2010)

*At Aloof,* agreed. I am not sure why Dr. Simeon keeps focusing on particular meds. Yes Anafranil, I was on that as well. It can help with OCD ... helped a friend a lot ... yet she slept all day. I also could barely stay awake. An SSRI like Celexa/citalopram is "cleaner", fewer side effects. And yes, I went through those older tricyclics ... the first med I was ever on was Tofranil/imipramine. Did nothing for me at all. Like taking a sugar pill.

*Electric*, perhaps I misunderstood where you were coming from (as usual, the internet, can't hear a tone of voice but you also said:


> ALL benzos siginificantly shorten the human life span.


Could you give some citation to medical literature to back that up? I've never heard that. If abused, benzos can be dangerous. ANY drug can be dangerous for someone. It's just a statement like that that is sort of .. well off-putting I guess.

At any rate, yes, we are all different. Interesting is I am very emotional. I still feel "disconnected" -- but that is the DP/DR. I felt MORE disconnected and even "dead" when I was not on Klonopin. As noted, for me, it has been the only med that made me feel more a part of the world.

Peace of Mind
My new mantra.


----------



## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

Dreamer* said:


> *At Aloof,* agreed. I am not sure why Dr. Simeon keeps focusing on particular meds. Yes Anafranil, I was on that as well. It can help with OCD ... helped a friend a lot ... yet she slept all day. I also could barely stay awake. An SSRI like Celexa/citalopram is "cleaner", fewer side effects. And yes, I went through those older tricyclics ... the first med I was ever on was Tofranil/imipramine. Did nothing for me at all. Like taking a sugar pill.
> 
> *Electric*, perhaps I misunderstood where you were coming from (as usual, the internet, can't hear a tone of voice but you also said:
> 
> ...


Benzos are medically safe. abuse of them is another issue. The problem obviously when used long term is tolerance and potential withdrawal when discontinued. Lots of people get withdrawal from many other types of meds as well...even placebo ;]
Interestingly I have had discussions with one of Dr. Simeon's colleagues and co-author of "Feeling Unreal", Jeff Abugel. He agrees with me that the anti-seizure meds (klonopin, lamictal, trileptal, neurontin) seem more and more to be the most effective for DPD sufferers. That makes sense as they all affect the temporal lobe and or GABA receptors...slowing things down so to speak, and chronic anxiety seems to be a common element with depersonalization for many.


----------



## ElectricRelaxation (May 2, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> *
> *Could you give some citation to medical literature to back that up? I've never heard that. If abused, benzos can be dangerous. ANY drug can be dangerous for someone. It's just a statement like that that is sort of .. well off-putting I guess.


http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/sleeping-pills-benzo-and-z-drugs-shorten-life-span-and-a-list-of-other-adverse-reactions/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-siegel/are-sleeping-pills-good-f_b_446804.html


----------



## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

ElectricRelaxation said:


> http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/2010/04/13/sleeping-pills-benzo-and-z-drugs-shorten-life-span-and-a-list-of-other-adverse-reactions/
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jerry-siegel/are-sleeping-pills-good-f_b_446804.html


lots of things shorten life span lol.....try staying out of the sun and you can add a few years to your life. Not to mention these sources are specifically addressing insomniacs that use pills to sleep. There are differences when you consider the reason for taking a med, and the potential for a certain group of people to resort to abuse. Hey you need to sleep right? Point is a drug like Klonopin has been around and was intended for long term use as it was originally prescribed for use as an anti-convulsant. Check out this link:

http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=8021


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2010)

aloof said:


> lots of things shorten life span lol.....try staying out of the sun and you can add a few years to your life. Not to mention these sources are specifically addressing insomniacs that use pills to sleep. There are differences when you consider the reason for taking a med, and the potential for a certain group of people to resort to abuse. Hey you need to sleep right? Point is a drug like Klonopin has been around and was intended for long term use as it was originally prescribed for use as an anti-epileptic. Check out this link:
> 
> http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=8021


Exactly, and this is why I'm saying you are not really being supportive here. I am not stupid. I have never abused Klonopin which is long acting -- in 23 years I have NEVER exceeded my maintenance dose -- NEVER and NEVER plan to and it has never lost it's effectiveness and had I not found this med I would have commited suicide about 20 years ago. I do not use the short acting benzos which tend to cause an individual to take more and more. I also do not use sleeping pills. I don't take Klonpin as a sleep aid. I take it as the ONLY MEDICATION/treatment, etc. that EVER made my DP/DR better.

I am also in CBT but have had a zillion different types of talk therapy. Coping therapy works best for me. Also healthier lifestyle, etc.

The shortened life span here is related mainly to overdose and suicide.

And aloof makes a good point re:the fact that Klonopin was first marketed in 1975 as an anticonvulsant. Many must take such medications for seizure disorders.

I KNOW that if I go off of Klonopin, my DP/DR will come back. It was there BEFORE I ever took any medication at all -- as a child. Severe so that I could not function.

By the way, I also have breast cancer (I'm 51) and have surgery on Wednesday. A common cancer that I will most likely do very well with. However, I will have to take poison for four months -- chemotherapy. I am more miserable about living with DP/DR than I am having cancer. If I had no brain disorder and such serious anxiety, I could enjoy life.

I predict, and I may be wrong as I've stuck it out this far, that I could die by taking my own life as I fear being elderly with DP.

So, as I always say, pick your poison.

And finally I know individuals who have been on far more dangerous medications for years. It is risk/benefit. I have consciously chosen to treat my illness this way, as I have consciously chosen a particular procedure for my breast cancer. My body, my life. I may sound bitchy ... I feel bitchy. And please don't tell me I got my breast cancer from a benzo, many of my friends my age have had breast cancer. I fall into a very predictable age group for this, my mother and aunt had breast cancer, and I will be one of many survivors.

Really sorry if I sound angry. But I am. And what scares me more is chemo running through my body for four months. 23 years of Klonopin is nothing compared to that, and yet without it, my cancer could come back.

At least wish me well this Wednesday during my surgery.

I don't know why I repsond to these posts. I am just venting.
Whatever works for someone, and whatever they choose is his/her own right.
I have also chosen to NEVER take any rec drug as I already have an altered state of consciousness. I do not judge or lecture any person who experiments with rec drugs, but they are terribly dangerous.

Peace,
Peace of Mind,
D


----------



## ElectricRelaxation (May 2, 2010)

Believe me I am in NO way against klonopin. In fact if I didn't have one of those scared harm reduction P-docs and was able to get some klonopin (which he'll probably never give me) I know I would be at 95% recovery right now. The drug is very unique and just has a profound effect on the brain in a way that other benzo's don't. Oh well I'm just gonna ride my bike a lot which is great for anxiety and I recently went to a yoga class that made me feel awesome afterwards. So hopefully I can recover completely without the klonopin, I'm keeping optimistic.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2010)

PS -- untreated brain disorders/mental illness shorten one's life as well -- to suicide, homelessness (poor nutrition/crime victim), losing a job/insurance and getting a physical illness, etc.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2010)

Appreciate what you wrote Electric.

And I would be terrified for instance to take Ambien or the sleeping aids they have now.
Also, extra aerobic activity helps my anxiety but does not cure it. Biking is a great idea. I am concerned my DP/DR will get worse because I am now sick. During chemo, I'm actually terrified the DP will make me feel so DP I'll end up in the damned psych ward.

I AM afraid now. About my DP getting worse because I have cancer. NOT of the surgery or the cancer. The irony.


----------



## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

- DELETED -


----------



## ElectricRelaxation (May 2, 2010)

Hey sketch, go back and read what all I said, then drop your shitty attitude.


----------



## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

Consider it dropped Electric. My apologies brotha...

Chris


----------

