# no one



## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

no one is responsible for your brain but you.

the idea that anyone else, from anywhere (and at any angle!), has screwed YOU up is what makes you sick and what keeps you sick.

i find sometimes the people i most accuse of messing up my brain are the ones I somehow tried to manipulate in the first place.

i probably would have OD'd on pain pills by now if I kept deluding myself into thinking they hurt ME maliciously, in order to hide from my part of it.

I think that's why it's hard to forgive people...because when you really forgive someone (which i'm not even sure if I ever HAVE) then you must logically assume total responsibility for your actions and re-actions [reactions to any smashed expectations of someone you had, etc].

And...no one individual can save you.

[i have made some "messed up" people appear astonishingly sane in light of my near-insane quest to tear them down somehow]


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

oh yeah btw this is a messageboard of people whose mental health is at a rough stage of development (ie: we're sick) so just remember what we perceive to be the reality of situations is going to be centered on false conceptions (NOT in an insane way but in a distorted-thinking way) and we also don't realize the impact of what we say to others, so just take all that jazz into account too.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

Not everyone sets out on a quest to destroy those they think have wronged them. And yet the actions of others can have profound effects on the way we feel think and act. Environment plays a role.

We may be responsible ultimately for the way we treat ourselves. But to deny outside influence in an argument of total and complete responsibility seems to be oversimplifying. To argue complete responsibility is to deny ANY outside influencing factors and there are always other factors in a persons life that leads them to their actions and habitual patterns.


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## bright23 (Jun 6, 2005)

I think what person3 is getting at is resentment.

Of course events and people have an affect on us. That's what the "world"
is.

But to blame our current mentally ill and maladapted state on some specific variant of "uncaring mother", or "verbally abusive father," or "death/suicide of fill-in-the-blank," does a huge disservice to us, and I agree with person3, keeps us sick.

Nobody's life is easy. Everyone has, is, or will experience tradgedy in one form or another. How we individually respond to tradgedy, what we make of our lives post-trauma, is what defines us.

Unfortunately for many of us on this forum, we're currently stuck, feeling as if we're cut off from the rest of the world, and totally depressed/anxious about the situation. Perhaps we look for a magic cure in the form of some new drug, dietary supplement, exercise regimen, or perhaps we escape with alcohol and illicit drugs, sex, food, television, or suicidal thoughts. I eat like a cow when I want to get out of my skin, but it ultimately never works.

Its too easy to blame my dad. Much too simplistic. I'm a grownup now and my thinking's a bit more sophisticated, right?

We'll see...


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

If what you're saying is that we should not resent someone for how we ended up then I agree. If you're saying that any other persons actions do not play an important role in the formation of our personalities and problems then I strongly disagree.

If a person is abused as a child by a parent, then that parent is somewhat responsible for that childs later problems. When we start moving away from strong cases such as mental or physical abuse, suicide, etc then I think these outside factors play less of a role, but should still be recognized. Obviously if you had perfectly loving parents but they had a specific parenting style as opposed to some other parenting style and you blame then, then we are nitpicking. But there are factors that we grow up in that are outside of our control and may influence problems in later life.


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## bright23 (Jun 6, 2005)

Sure. Recognizing is necessary. I think specifically what Person3 is focusing on is how many of us end up staying STUCK in the recognizing phase, and stewing over the emotion, round and round, obsessing like an addict.

I have two friends that have both been raped and molested as children. One is stuck at some level ? a drug addict and carrying a lot of anger around. The other is unstuck, active in life and a tremendous support to me when I'm freaking out.

One's resentful and frequently blames his DAD for not protecting him from a molesting babysitter. The other one doesn't live in the past, doesn't constantly keep bringing up the source of pain habitually, constantly picking at the scab.

I think a lot of us here like picking scabs. I do.

There's a degree of choice. Sh*t happens, but what we do in response WE are responsible for. That is SANITY. Picking at scabs is at best, harmful to us.


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

For once I find myself agreeing with Scattered. I don't really agree with this:
_
no one is responsible for your brain but you. _

However I do agree with P3 on the issue of forgiving people.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

i'm not really saying (correct me if it sounded as such) that there was a complete lack of influence on us by others.

that influence is definitely important to examine. once we know where are false beliefs lie we can correct them.

but it is your complete responsibility to do things to help yourself discover and change those ways of thinking. no one else can make that choice for you.

your parents may have fuck ed you up, but now it is your job to take the actions that will correct any "damage" they have done.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

what i'm ultimately saying is that it doesn't mean shit where you came from. the ONLY meaning it has is to pinpoint what behaviors must be changed. that is absolutely it. i know people from loving households who STILL got messed up, and people from sick households that got better.

and bright23 is absolutely right. we spend a LOT of time focusing on our past when it is utterly useless in the light of what we can do.


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2005)

*Hola,
Well...I think most of this sounds pretty logical. When you think about ppl who have been successful in their lives (both professionally and privately), you will always have numbers of ppl who came from "bad" situations. It is these ppl who serve as examples to the world that prove that; we are not "slaves" to our past. That it is WE who make our lives what they are! We as humans have "free will" and choice. Sure we are influenced by others, however, it is up to us to either act or react on that influence. So in essense, "no one is responsible for our brains but us"!

Tony*


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

your reply was helpful to me this morning when i remembered it...thanks!


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Sometimes, in order to clearly see the present, we have to look back, if only to observe things in ourselves that we need to work on or strengthen. Sometimes looking back has the added benefit of allowing us to interpret the past through the lens of who we are today. As children, we didn't know things that we know today, and many of those things can bring greater understanding to us when we look back. I also think looking back is important if we are not today very clear about how we felt -- whether we are thinking that we were okay with the situation back in the past and have repressed the actual feelings we had at the time.

If stuff is being driven out of our consciousness that is the source of problems for us NOW, I think we have know what it is. I know from personal experience in therapy that the first feelings we remember about past events that were traumatic or painful are not necessarily all that's there to be remembered or brought to our awareness.

Even today I have a hard time actually accepting the fact that I have negative feelings toward people, that somehow I feel that having those feelings is wrong. It took a long time for me to see that, and I don't know why it hurts so much, but it does. It's as if I am bad if I have negative feelings toward anyone and I punish myself unconsciously for it. But I say openly that I have good and bad feelings for people and that people are never all good or all bad, so consciously, I don't think I have a problem, but my therapist sometimes suggests something about my feeling it's wrong to have negative emotions toward people and I immediately respond with tears. What are those tears about? Why do I still get anxious and freak out at the prospect of seeing my older sisters and their families at Thanksgiving? Is it because I feel that my life is a failure? I think that's part of it. But why should that cause an anxiety attack today? I felt like I was not myself, and I didn't recognize my life, and I wanted only to feel like myself. I tried for a couple of hours to let it float away, but it didn't, and I took .5 mg Ativan. Now I'm feeling more like myself, but I am feeling the old "I don't want to go and have to feel like a failure because I am alone and cannot form relationships with people" when I am in their midst, and I know I will feel that. Maybe this ties into the negative feelings thing somehow, but I cannot clearly see it. I want to do something to protect myself from suffering -- I want to not go to the Thanksgiving reunion. Everybody will be so happy and I will not be because I am ashamed of my lousy life and how bad I look. But if the source of my anxiety is in my behavior in the past, certainly getting to the early expression of it might give me the ability to morph that old response into something more rational today. Isn't that a possibility? If I fear disapproval and lack of love from my own sisters, what kind of monster am I? I am probably punishing myself for feeling negative toward them. I think that's what my therapist would say, but what is the solution?

I am afraid of the disapproval I will get if I don't go, too. I could tell them that I am sick again and I would hate that, but I don't want to be around them really. I have very little relationship with them -- they don't like e-mail and don't call and it seems they are strangers to me.

I'm not sure if my BDD (problems with appearance) has anything to do with this, but it might, because I don't want them to see how ugly I am and to look at me with pity.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

yeah i can understand the failure part (i'll have to make this short for now), and it pains me that you have to go through BDD b/c I experience that too...as well as probably half the population ()

but part of the problem, i feel, is that your failure feelings are delusions, they are just as delusional as your grandiose feelings. your poisonous self conjures up thoughts of failure and comparison to pit against that perfect ideal you have of yourself.

having expectations about ANYTHING or ANYONE will lead to having expectations about yourself, which for us leads to incredible demands.

having expectations/"this should be"/"I should be" makes us feel unreal because the REALITY is never what "should be", it is "what is". instead of operating in reality we try to change it, we try to change us (hence the BDD...more about that later), we try to change others.

i learned something today in a psych class about "objective self awareness", that even incredibly attractive people can be made to feel ugly when put in front of the mirror and given questions...

therefore, ugliness and badness are delusions of too much STARING at the self (in the mirror, in self-consciousness, etc)...which is different than sitting in a therapists office talking about the past and analyzing it, btw...

do you still look in mirrors? that's something i have had to quit. i still have a hard time with it, but i know for a fact that looking in the mirror for ANYTHING right now will kill me (it has sent me to the suicide ward before)....i know what i look like if i stay clean and groomed...lol...so i can't use that as rationale to look in the mirror in the morning.

BDD has NOTHING to do with what YOU really are or what YOU really look like, YOU can't even really KNOW what you actually look like because with such an obsessive disorder you are unable to objectively perceive yourself, so there is a LOT of delusion involved in that, and it's the same kind of delusion that makes you perceive yourself as a failure. they are linked...

the real problem (i think, i'm not totally sure but i feel in my heart this is it) is trying to compare the self to ideals you have, and the DP is a metaphor for that, because with DP you're comparing your REALITY with what your reality SHOULD feel like and it's a result of you comparing yourself for ideals for so long that the brain is giving you a huge STOP IT signal.

but yeah...the BDD...I remember being at my thinnest, i could see all my ribs and vertabrae and was still obsessed with the fact that some girl's calves were smaller than mine and I needed to fix that...heh

edit: due to total grandiosity i am rereading my post and wow...i really suggest you try not looking at the mirror at ALL for a week. i swear, part of my loss of reality was getting "lost in the mirror", i feel more real just RECOGNIZING THAT!


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Thanks, person3.

In my case, I really AM ugly; I'm not like these women who are really good-looking who only think they're unattractive. I really am.

I don't know what "grandiose" feelings you were referring to, though. If that was DP that I had today with the anxiety, and I'm supposing you thought that's what I was describing, then what you said makes sense. The anxiety was preceded by thinking about what a failure I was and how I didn't want them to see me. I know these people and they can look at me as if I'm not good enough and I can do that for myself now, so I don't need them to do it.

I've actually made progress with accepting that I'm ugly, and got to the point where I was liking my "brand" of it because it was me, and I do have my cute moments. But you? I've seen your picture, and you are quite strikingly beautiful, person3. I am not; I am mousy and misshapen, but I deluded myself into thinking it was not as bad as I had thought. But it's worse than I thought, I think.

Here's a post from bddcentral (private) to someone there:

Yes, I have reservations about its working for BDD, too. [We were talking about http://www.changethatsrightnow.com/prob ... =6557:1945.] I was struck, as I mentioned in the last part of my post, that it didn't talk about people "not being ugly" but implied they won't mind it, but I don't know how that could work if the person hasn't got a positive experience of how they looked (ever looking good) to neutralize the bad feelings. If I do it, I will definitely let you know.

As it happens, I went to the dentist today and had a massive BDD attack that was preceded by an anxiety attack when I got home. I wondered how I ever thought I was not as ugly as I see I am today. I looked at myself in the mirror and saw the same old same old, things that depressed me. I am so confused, because I thought I was making progress in accepting my appearance.

I can trace how it started, I think. I was thinking about how I don't want to go to the family reunion because they will all see how much of a failure I am -- at that time it wasn't because of how I looked, but it was because I am all alone and cannot form relationships with any but a very small group of people. Then it morphed into anxiety in the dentist's office, and then it was "I am ugly" when I got home. But I think I really *am* ugly and just need to accept it. That's the point where the irrational thinking ideas become relevant to me, too, when I've given up hope of being not ugly. I see my therapist tomorrow and will talk about this, but feel as if I have lost so much progress. For a while I believed that maybe I wasn't ugly. Now my therapist says I'm deluded, but I think they want you to think that just to feel better, so you'll think you aren't really ugly -- but they know you ARE. Now, Dr. Claiborn [he's a psychologist on the site] would say, "So what if you are ugly?" And I'd say, "That's a horrible fate. Look how I feel. How can you say that?" And he'd say, "There are plenty of uglier people in the world and many of them are having a fine life, have relationships, are happy." And I'd say, "I don't see how that's possible." and on and on. And by the time I'm done, I'm suddenly seeing myself as NOT ugly, which to me is the *real* delusion. So you see, I'm a mess. I also spiral down sometimes when people cannot look me in the eye and I think that they think I am too ugly to look at. Of course, I am "mind-reading," but how else do you explain the behavior, and if that's true and I'm right, what hope is there for me?


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## bright23 (Jun 6, 2005)

I think your specific focus on the word "ugly" says a lot. When I ride the subways and walk through the city I see thousands of people, all shapes, sizes, colors and smells. They are all perfectly themselves, unique. The word "ugly" is never in my vocabulary when I think of a physical description of a person. I'm being totally honest. If anything I think - tall, short, thin, heavy.

I use the word "ugly" in my mind only on very special occasions. When I see an alcoholic man verbally abusing his girlfriend on the subway, I label that behavior "UGLY." When I see a woman unnecessarily cutting down her own children in public, or a cop needlessly harrassing an elderly homeless man, I have one special word for it ? "UGLY."

Simply, I reserve that word for what people DO, know what they LOOK LIKE. Everyone's beautiful in this world, it's how we were intended to look, right?


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

I don't apply that term to other people.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

of course you don't. none of us with obsessive self hatred would EVER label other people, we don't expect the same suicidally rigid standards of others that we expect of our "flawed" selves. the delusion that we have to keep working on those types of flaws is what keeps us sick and it keeps our attention away from the TRUE problems.

check your boxy-box btw


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

oh your link is broken soj


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

What link? I got it. Thanks.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I am totally with you guys on this. 
When reality starts to kick in about the way I REALLY look, compared to the way I 'SHOULD' look, this is when DP kicks in. It's a retreat into an inner world where you think you have control. But you don't. The obsessing gets worse and worse. Last night I spent a while in the mirror looking at myself all those parts of me that I don't like that 'aren't how I'm meant to be' and really thought about the concept that they are and there is nothing I can do about it. Like in so many other ways, I have denied these parts of me existed in my seeking of my ideal image.

Remember this, other people don't think in the same way we do. Normal, mentally sound people who have a secure sense of self do not define people by the way they look. They see people for who they are. Sure, they still 'see' your knobbly knees and fat bum, but this makes NO difference whatsoever to them. Only to us. It's not that we have to love every part of us. It's that we have such a strong sense of self that we no longer use these things to define ourselves, and they no longer matter.


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

I as well disagree that we are responsible for our own sadness.
a person can only take up to a specific amount stress and fear.
and no growing up and no taking responsibilities will save from my sadness except for
as stated by another in this forum forgivness and love. 
if i knew how to stop being frightened i wouldn't be anymore.

if someone steps hard on your toe and your toe goes numb and black are you responsible for not being able to control your body and stop the pain?


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

you're damn sure responsible for getting yourself to the doctor to fix it!


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

yeah but really do doctors fix it?
the only person that has helped me understand a but myself in this hell is my boyfriend. i ve almost given up on psychiatrists


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

no doctors don't fix it, psychiatrists don't fix it, WE fix it, that's the whole point. Getting yourself to a doctor is to start getting appropriate help and direction and support. If you are walking into a doctors looking for a cure then you will be disappointed. However, we do need help to get better from these people. Guidance in the right direction, but you do the work. You have got to want to get better and look at the ways in which you can realistically do that.

Have you tried any kind of talk therapy or maybe getting a few books and trying to get to know yourself? Psychiatrists only really help in the chemical dept., you need to talk about your feelings or doing some kind of self help. Talk to your boyfriend, get your feelings out. If he is supportive which he sounds like he is, make the most of it and tell him your fears, you will feel less isolated.

G x


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

it is hard because all the psychiatrist i 've gone to they don't really believe or they address everything to depression
i say to them i can't get over something that has happened to me over the past and all they say to me is to think possitive
the fist one wouldn't believe me at all which really sucked because it made me depersonalized. he said i had these negative thoughts of the past because i was depressed and drugged me!!

i would love to read books that would help me to know myself better
but i don't have any sense of self at the moment
do you know what i mean?
and i used to be really precise and analytic...


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## eclecticsheep (Sep 4, 2005)

how do you handle things?


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

My therapist tells me I'm "crazy"-- meaning delusional. I took 5 mg of Ativan about an hour ago and I am starting to feel a little bit like myself. I haven't had a BDD attack since July 1 of any appreciable size; maybe a few flickers for a minute or two, but not two days of it. And none of my bouts with anxiety had anything to do with my appearance.

OK, maybe I'm not the ugliest woman on the planet, and sometimes I can look "cute," but heck, 'ya could've fooled me.

It's interesting, though, my doctor probably would have said to take Zoloft, but I took the tranquilizer because I felt anxiety, not just depression. If it clears up the depression, who's gonna complain, right? I put in a call to him and will speak to him tomorrow.

I even felt well enough to play the piano just now. That's something. It's hard to tell whether I have organic disease or a psychological problem. In fact, it's impossible to tell.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2005)

It is although it cost over 3000$,its called a single photon emission computer tomography


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

This thread has dissociated BIG time. Sorry for my part in it. g-funk, have you been to bddcentral.com's forum?


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## bright23 (Jun 6, 2005)

I was hoping that what I said in my last post would be a bit helpful Soj. I guess I'm disappointed by your response, even though I get it, and I can relate to the place your response comes from.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I haven't been to BDD no, will give it a go. Do you find it helpful?


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## LISA NICHOLS (Sep 3, 2005)

sorry if i sound thick but what is bdd???? :?


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

eclectic sheep-

PSYCHIATRISTS are MD's, they prescribe medication, and they very likely don't give a shit about your past. they diagnose depression, bipolar, ADD, OCD, anxiety, panic disorder, etc. There is no way you're gonna convince your doc of depersonalization.

I'm having a feeling that it wasn't really the talk with your doc that gave you a DP episode, but the fact that you're trying to CONVINCE him of this, and that you're trying to really get him to see where you're coming from. He never will and he wasn't trained to do that.

i say that because of the fact that you made your DP worse by engaging in the discussion.

depression and anxiety meds help, but there is no pill in the entire world that will cure dp because dp is a disease of not being true to oneself, hiding from oneself, living in a fantasy world, etc, and no amount of pills will help if you're still gonna repeat the behaviors that got you in here in the first place. (that would be like giving the "no-drunk" pill to someone who really just wants to keep drinking anyway, or nicotine gum to someone who likes the FEEL of a cigarette in their mouth and chooses to smoke anyway...the EDGE of the behavior is reduced or replaced, but changing the original behavior is in the hands of the drinker/smoker/DP'er.)


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

bright23,

I think everyone is beautiful, too, but me. I find it hard to believe the psychiatrist and the therapist who both say I'm deluded. I think I'm extremely unattractive and my entire life seems to be testament to that fact. But they say I've got a perceptual problem. I have real facial flaws that make me look quite "different" and I want help in accepting it rather than continuing to try to tell myself I'm not ugly. But it seems no one will help me.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

g-funk said:


> I haven't been to BDD no, will give it a go. Do you find it helpful?


It's a mixed bag, really. Lots of great people, though. Everybody's in a different place. Some are just beautiful, but some say they're ugly like me.

If I'm crazy, then I'm not so ugly. I just don't know what the truth is. In that respect, I am crazy.

I'm having a panic attack about this and about being all alone tonight. Had to finally take an Ativan. I can't take wanting to die and not being able to do anything about it. Or fearing that death will indeed come some day, maybe soon. I'm old, remember?

But -- I am ALWAYS alone, so this is not something new, being alone. But panic when alone is intolerable. It feels like I don't exist and have no life. I don't really have a life, but at least most of the time I'm not so aware of it as I am now.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

sojourner-

can't you go out with a friend somewhere? Our disease tells us to isolate and that no one would be any good to hang out with anyway, why don't you go out for once, even to a movie alone if you can't find anyone? (I spent like a week going to movies alone when Star Wars 3 came out)

Also, you're going crazy trying to adress an illusion (your "certainty" on your appearance), but it's interesting the panic attack had something to do with being alone.

I find that if I isolate and push people away from my life, my body distortions get bigger and bigger until i am damn near convinced that i should kill myself to spare the world of my ugliness. It does get that bad. It doesn't matter much what I look like either, it's a disease for all of us...isolation...breeds self consciousness...breeds further isolation. It's a trick of the mind to keep you more isolated.

Do you have ANYTHING in the day where you can be social? A lot of us say stuff like "oh, I'm an introvert, i'm a hermit, i think people are stupid, i don't like crowds, etc etc" and with all that Meyers-Briggs personality crap, we truly believe it's okay to be some hermit. But for those of us with DP, BDD, and other mental disorders, isolation will kill us. We have used up our right to "introversion". We have used up our "alone time" and isolation from the world. Would you do LSD just because it's socially acceptable in some circles of society? Or would you say "No, that messes my brain up very badly?". Well, would you isolate because all the self help books say that alone time is good? Maybe for someone ELSE who spends TOO much time around a family of 100, but not you. Not with BDD.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

It's been very painful. I may be working it out tolerably, though. I did not get anxiety tonight working with pictures. I am a real mixture. Now maybe this experience will have a therapeutic effect in the long-term. Time will tell. If I report to my doctor that I no longer think I'm a monster, he will no longer say I'm crazy. If I have no more anxiety, he will think my organic brain disorder is in remission and probably believe I'm still sick until enough time goes by.

Maybe I am crazy. Only time will tell. All I know is that looking at myriad pictures of myself, looking both like a witch and an angel has been very edifying. I have used an angel picture to represent me here. It's a flattering picture. We all know how pictures can be. I'm not really as nice as that picture, but to spare you all the pain of it all, I decided not to choose the witch picture. When I do not smile, I look like a witch. LOL.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Sojourner,

You are beautiful.

And I knew that before I saw your picture.

We are more than just a body. It's not everybody else that needs convincing, it is us.

What organic brain disease does your doctor think you have?

Gx


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## bright23 (Jun 6, 2005)

Nice to see your photo Soj. Good work.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Thanks, guys, but that picture doesn't really look like me. The new one is more me. Pretty soon I'll post the witch. When I'm not smiling, I really look like an ogre.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Sojourner, 
You are an incredily talented, complex woman. One would never guess from your threads with Martin that you had the least bit of self-doubt in the world. I'm a 24 year old guy, and they say we are the very pickiest about looks, and I'm telling you right now, you could look like Gargamel from the smurfs and I would still think you are beautiful. You have a wonderful ability to cut through a person's defenses and see to the heart of a person's issues. You are spontaneous and fiery, yet humble. Your posts about spirituality are deep, accurate, and filled with knowledge and wisdom. Dont let the BDD distract you from a couple of spiritual truths. Is it psychological or is it organic? What does this mean? Any psychological change makes a chemical change occur in the brain. Any chemical change makes a psychological change occur in the person. Janine and I have tread and retread this ground a thousand times. It sounds like OCD to me. I used to hold myself to the highest standards of Christian conduct. If I couldnt hit those, I knew I was going to hell. My parents further confirmed this. But my friends and relatives? I would never, ever judge them so harshly. It was scrupulosity of the soul. You have scrupulosity of the body, Sojourner. It has probably been reinforced by family, like mine. And it is psychological and organic - they go hand in hand. The question is which one is the most efficient route to recovery and treatment. Psychology and psychiatry are not mutually exclusive, and the two fields should never have grown apart in this way. For my part, honestly speaking (and if I lie, you know I'll have to go to confession, me being scrupulous!) you look very attractive. I'm sure now your obsessive mind is saying what my obsessive soul would say - but if you only knew the true me, or saw the true picture of me, then you would say differently! Which is of course the whole trick your mind plays on you, and the crux of your disease. Try to let it go. You are not ugly, and it doesnt matter if your brothers and sisters think you are odd. Mine follow suit with my parents and shun me. Not everyone will think that we are attractive. For my part, there are some people who think I am. Other women dont like my looks, and I'm sure I've been called ugly before. I'm not their type, and I'm okay with that. Its biology. We can only marry one person, and even if we sleep around, we can only hope to match Will Chamberlain. What the majority of humanity thinks doesnt matter. There is NO objective standard for beauty of the body. It is as subjective as humanity's taste in art. But there IS an objective standard for beauty of the soul. And as G-Funk says, your reflection in that mirror is flawless.

Listen to Person3, she sounds very wise and knowledgeable in this department. Dont let it make you stay alone....mental (and physical) illness does that. Go out and about. It is a lie which your mind is giving you, based on a standard that doesnt exist. Do you think God creates anything which He would even deign to call ugly? Of course not. If you are called to the vocation of marriage, your particular beauty will call to that man. I've spoken to some people, that beleive it or not, were happy that they werent born better looking. The particular woman I'm speaking of made a good point. If she had been better looking than she is, her dashing Navy husband probably wouldnt have had the guts to walk across the room and ask her out. And knowing him, she's probably right. We are made with a particular beauty to do a particular task...dont let your mind distract you from finding that task, that vocation, that soulmate. Let go, and let God. I'll pray really, really hard for you, and know that I look up to the advice you give in your posts and have the utmost faith in your ability to triumph over this and hold your head high among your siblings. PM me if you need anything.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Home,

Your words are entirely too generous; I am a miserable sinner, but I will pray with you for us all. I'm getting clarity now, and your post has helped me determine that I am on the right road. I believe the answer for me lies in a synthesis of faith and psychology/psychiatry. I will only undertake a course of drug treatment if I can determine with a qualified spiritual director/psychologist/psychiatrist that doing so is the best course. If anyone knows of a Catholic psychiatrist or psychologist in the Boston area, please let me know his or her name (send me a PM). I am going to consult with my pastor this week about finding someone. There are tremendous resources in this area of the country, but they're not on the Internet and they're not readily visible -- it's a shame though and shouldn't be this way. So, I'm on my way, I think, to handling this in an "integrated" way. I had a sort of epiphany today. I was out there in the ozone (farther, really), my consciousness sort of floating along and wondering where it belonged, and had too much coffee, and felt a bit scared -- scared because I felt I had no SELF -- (that's a new one for me), and turned to the Lord and silently asked my questions about how to organize my head, and how to live. I was out there seeing the "big picture" being dwarfed by the hugeness of reality and getting so lost. The words "this one" came through, and I saw that to mean that I must be "this one," the one that I am. "Just this one," was next. All I have to do is -- not comprehend the mysteries of consciousness and creation -- but BE "this one" -- be me. Whoever that is. That of course, is the very rub of the thing, isn't it? Who is "this one" in whose body I reside and look out, questioning? I hope to have those who have trodden farther down this road guide me now, and I know that I cannot look to modern psychiatry alone for an answer that will truly bring me peace of mind that I am aligned with God's plan for us. I need my advisors to be people of faith when I have tremendously important decisions to make like taking drugs again and whatever else I have to do.

Thanks so much, Homeskooled, for adding to my experience of today! God bless you -- and everyone here!

P.S. Home, speaking of marriage, I'm 58, so it's too late for me, I think, unless God specifically wants it for me.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Sojourner, 
No, you are not a miserable sinner, or if you are, you are just as miserable as the rest of us. No more and no less. Humility isnt the ability to degrade ourselves, it is, rather, a true appraisal of somethings worth - no more, and no less. So many people think that to be humble we must be a doormat. No. That is as wrong as exaggerating our worth (which is what is called pride). I'm trying to help you see a true appraisal of yourself, Sojourner. No more, no less. You should seek out a therapist who will do the same. And dont diffuse your prayers for us all - YOU are worthy of help, and in the end, you are the only person who has responsiblity for you. The Gospel yesterday (or was it the Epistles) spoke of how God wishes us to love Him and ourselves first. That's orders from the man upstairs, and you cant do that while you are degrading the body God has given. DONT start asking the question "Who am I?". I've seen alot of people on this site get alot crazier from dwelling on that question. The answer to it isnt complicated. You are what you do. And until your life is over, that is an uncompleted work of art. The more you ask the question in solitude, the less you do, and the less the word "me" means.

You are in spot to get Catholic psychological counseling. I honestly think you need counseling, but counseling lite. You dont need to overthink things because, quite honestly, your too good at that. My sister is a nun with the Daughters of St. Paul in Jamaica Plains, and I'm sure if my suggestion doesnt work that she'll have a name. I would head over to Boston College and find a good psychiatrist who will then get you in with a therapist. My favorite modern philosopher is at Boston College, aka Peter Kreeft, so it cant be all bad. Dont head over to Harvard - they have far too many psychologists, with far too many far out ideas. I know a couple up there. Before they're done with you,you'll think you have multiple personalities. If I were medicating you, I would try something very light that deals with OCD and depression like Celexa, and if it didnt work, I'd try Anafranil. Its known to help DP AND hopeless cases of OCD. It helped mine once upon a time. And remember that God originally created the world to enjoy. WE are the ones who moved our world closer to the precipice through original sin. As Catholics, we tend to teach that our lifetimes are supposed to be overwhelming slogs through a vale of tears, designed only to test us. No. We are simply given responsiblity and free will, and we can choose to live it in sorrow or live it in happiness. Now go grab that happiness. As for being 58, you seem a young 58, both in mind and body, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with pursuing marriage, love, and romance until you are 92! It is one of the fullest expressions of it we can have in this lifetime. And most importantly, stay active and busy. The answers will find you!

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

> DONT start asking the question "Who am I?".


I only do that as a result of feeling that awful anxiety. I don't get physical symptoms -- just a sense that I don't know who I am and that my life is over (whoever's life it was). I took 25 mg of lorazepam just now. That should cover it. But this afternoon I needed nothing.

I don't know if I have BDD or not, but when I'm not actively suffering from anxiety, I'd like to talk to a person at BC or in the Daughters of St. Paul. I was going to ask my pastor about a Catholic psychiatrist, but maybe I'll ask him specifically for a recommendation of someone over there.

Thanks, Homeskooled. It's also hard to know how much is emotional stuff from earlier in life, or my inability to connect to people. I've always attributed the latter to my looks. Now, people on bddcentral are saying I'm not ugly and that I have BDD, and I don't know if they're being nice and trying not to hurt my feelings, just like I don't know if you are. When you see the "witch" pictures, you will have to be really honest with me.


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## bright23 (Jun 6, 2005)

You're just you Soj. You're epiphany is still coming.

I like your hair, it looks like mine, but longer. Very rock and roll.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Thanks, bright!

Here you will see why I feel and talk the way I do:

http://photobucket.com/albums/c243/tanarg/


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> ne would never guess from your threads with Martin that you had the least bit of self-doubt in the world


What? What have I done know?  Whatever it is, I apologise for it.

Either way, I've always admired Sojourner. Disagreed with her, yes, but admired her. Some people are unable to make this distinction and think it's all abuse and ridicule.

Anyway, now I know she's a beautiful woman, I'm going to try and be extra nice![/i]


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

the only ugliness i see is the lack of love you have for yourself.

as far as your physical looks, ok so youre no cameron diaz, but neither is she.










the point is our idea of beauty is shaped by advertisements and the media. it isnt based in reality at all. there was a time in history where fat women were glorified as beautiful and shaving our body hair was unthinkable. before the first european explorers arrived, Hawaiian women had short cropped hair and exposed breasts, men had long hair and danced the hula, and surfed. it was a non issue to walk naked amongst each other. but that was quickly abolished and women grew their hair, tied them up in tight buns and covered themselves up to their chins, and the men cut their hair, stopped dancing and stopped surfing. they did it because they were told it was wrong. like today we loath the entire idea of aging. we fight against it and the young have a lack of respect for their elders. aging is seen as a bad thing. in Hawaiian culture we have a saying, Ke Aloha Na Kupuna. For the love of our grandparents. Our kupuna are revired, and their wisdom of years is treasured. to be kupuna is something to be desired, because everyone looks up to you.

dont let your mind be hypnotized by the disconnectedness of the present state of things. the best way to do this is to kill your television and cancel your subscriptions to Glamour, Cosmo, FHM, Oxygen, and all the other fantasy based magazines that just make you feel bad about yourself. thats what i did. if i didnt i would still be in that cycle of self loathing. what a complete waste of time. im sorry but i have a life out there waiting for me and im not going to waste it going round and round in my own head about sh!t that doesnt even matter.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

oh my GOD yes you won't believe what the folks at the MAC makeup counter can do for you, and what a high contrast digital photo will take away.

one of the pictures i posted here (it's stll on here somewhere) says "everybody looks better in high contrast" and it's true...the original picture my teeth are yellow and my face is red and covered with zits. i guess you feel for what you saw


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

To everyone:

I need to say that I have turned a corner:

- I see now that I am not the monster I thought I was.

- I am developing a healthier way of relating to myself and to my appearance. Do I have not-so-pleasing things about me that I would rather not have? Yes, but that doesn't mean I am ugly. Can I see myself as I "really" am in those pictures? Yes, I think so, or at least good enough to change my own assessment of myself. I see someone who has some very pleasing things about her. She is not a repulsive monster to me any more.

- My "problem" is truly an inner problem, and I am not going to accept its domination of my life. I am going to find out what it is REALLY about -- and it's something in my emotional experience of the world, myself, my feelings, my relationships, my early experiences, whatever. I am going to bring that problem into the light of the truth, with the help of God and his children on earth. I am going to be the child God wants me to be and has given me the power to be.

- My psychiatrist and I had a phone conversation today and I told him everything I did with the pictures and how I now felt. We had been discussing whether I should embark on a new road of treatment with medicine. However, because I reported to him that I feel I have turned a corner on this and would like to see how things go over the course of the next month or so, he said he thought that was fine. I am not going to take medicine now. His view of what I did with the pictures was that I was doing self-therapy -- what they call "reality testing." He was totally supportive and was also supportive of my continuing the psychotherapy with my therapist. We communicated about lots of things, but the bottom line is that he thinks what I have done to be helpful and feels it is entirely possible that I can beat whatever illness I had or have using psychotherapy. He says it is "possible." That doesn't mean that it will be enough, perhaps, but given how I feel that there has been some kind of *major change* within me in the last several days, it is entirely possible.

I feel more connected to my real self than I have felt in years! He thought the working with the pictures to be very helpful, as a matter of fact. And this is a man with a lot of experience who knows me well.

I owe those of you who have participated in this thread a debt of gratitude. Thank you.

My doctor and I even shared spiritual views and found we were really talking the same language all this time. He was totally supportive of my desire to try to be cured of whatever "illness" I may have naturally. If that does not work -- that is, if whatever INSIDE me cannot be assimilated into my personality in a non-destructive way through psychoanalytic or depth psychology (looking at the person as an integrated whole), then I am open to using medicine again.

In the meantime, I feel a new energy and a new peace in my heart, a new love for life and for all those people who have tried to help me. I am going to be discovering parts of myself that I have hidden from myself for most of my life, and I am firmly determined to become completely whole. I am probably now, for the first time, able to do the inner work of therapy.

If I cannot subdue the inner part of me who wants me to fail, then I will subdue it with medicine. I think that it's worth a shot doing it naturally, through psychology. My doctor said that CBT could work as well as the method I'm now using, but he thought it worth sticking with my therapist, who has known me for many years and with whom I have a real closeness and rapport.

There is, in fact, no monster. There is only US. You, me, and everyone else. We deserve to live free from the inner monsters who try to harm us and keep us miserable. I am going to try to "adopt" my inner "monster" and integrate my somewhat fragmented personality.

I expect some of you are reading this and saying to yourself, "Oh, it's just another rant by Recovering saying how she's 'cured,' but give it a month and she will be back complaining about how 'ugly' she is."

I think not. If I do that, however, it will be because I really do have BDD and a chemical imbalance, and if that is the case, I will probably beg the doctor for medicine.

I think it's definitely worth a shot to try to do it naturally first, and then, if that fails, take medicine.

Regardless, I am still ahead of the game, because I have begun to chase the "ugly" monster out of my inner house. The pictures helped, but the hardest work is yet to come.

I hope those of you who pray will pray for me, and I thank all of you who have helped me with your truth and your friendship.

I'm not leaving this forum, though. Not yet. But I may be here less often. The better I get, the less likely I will feel a need to be here.

Thanks for reading if you've read this far.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

what about your parents? did they have any influence on how you see yourself? everytime i see my dad he comments on my weight, and when i was little i was really thin and he would actually encourage me to starve myself and skip meals to keep my figure. i was only 7 years old! my mother is no better. she actually demonstrated step by step how to puke after a meal. i have them to thank for 20 years of anorexia/bulimia and BDD. :evil:


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## Milan (May 29, 2005)

Wowser - what a wonderful and moving thread.

I can't believe you tortured yourself so unfairly about the way you look Sojourner. I can't see why you did it. Your face has no 'ugliness' as you may perceive. It's as natural as the next persons. But I suppose that is the nature of the neurosis you were battling with. I'm really happy that you're more at peace with your self. I commend everyone who injected such positive responses to Soj's concerns. This is what this boards all about, supporting each other. We need more of this.

Sojourner, I know your very religious so why don't you join one your local parish's volunteer groups? It would be an excellent opportunity to meet other people, get you out of the house to socialise and rid you of your loneliness. Just a thought but you should do it.

Bonnie you take care


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Soon as I recover from this relapse, Milan!

Reading _The Power of Now_ now. Now maybe some of you are familiar with this book? Looks like it's possibly going to help me reconnect with "the truth that I already know." Anybody here read it?


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