# antipsychotics helped me!



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Hey guys,

Just thought I'd let all you sceptics know that seroquel, an atypical antipsychotic, significantly reduced my feelings of DP and DR. It took a while and I really had to stick with it for a few months before my symptoms began to improve. I am satisfied with this medication and what it has done for me.


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## stanD'infamy (Nov 27, 2006)

hey thats wicked, tho atypical antipsychotic's sound so scary !!!


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

So your saying your DP/DR was psychotic?


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

^^^ I dont think she was saying that. Dp/dr has nothing to do with schizophrenia or psychosis in general really.

Atypical anti-psychotic's arent only used for psychosis they are also used to treat bipolar, anxiety, depression and insomnia and probley a few other thing's i cant remember. Seroquel in paticular is used to treat insomnia because it's basically the king of knock out drug's in the atypical anti-psychotic world. Some say it rank's with the older typical's such as chlorpromazine and haldol.

Seroquel is used to treat anxiety but it's not a first line medication and i dont think it's paticularly good for it either. But that's just my opinion. If her dp/dr was anxiety based and seroquel brought that under control then the dp/dr would also be brought under control.

I take about 300mg's of seroquel a day for bipolar and it's a great drug for that. It calm's you down and help's both the mania and the depression. It's paticularly good for mixed states. When im manic i can take 300mg's all at once and not even feel drowsy. This would knock a normal person cold for about a day.

I dont think it would be a good idea to try this as a first or even second line med. Id try a benzodiazepine, ssri or a tricyclic before id go with a anti-psychotic. They are much milder medication's for most people. Granted id take the little side effect's i get off seroquel any day over the side effect's of a ssri.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

DP and DR can be symptoms of psychosis. Whether or not I have schizophrenia... well... depends who you ask.  My current psych thinks I have a 'rare form of schizophrenia' but another psych I visited recently thinks it's severe depersonalization disorder. But what it's called is trivial. What's important is what decreases my symptoms and seroquel happens to work. And yes, this drug, like many others, has multiple uses, anxiety and insomnia being two of them.

I just wanted to post this information because I know there are many people out there who are scared to try antipsychotics. No, it hasn't caused brain damage or dumbed me down in any way whatsoever. I did try other antipsychotics first but found the side effects were too prominant.

My pschiatrist would not let me try benzos or lamotrigine. But, my psych that I will be switching to will put me on lamotrigine and I will update you guys with how it goes. I am on an ssri and have no bad side effects from it. We are all so different and you can't predict how you will react or not react to a drug.


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## 17545 (Feb 14, 2007)

5


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2007)

Tigersuit said:


> That's bullshit, drugs NEVER HELP ANYONE!


Changing one huge painful vicious circle for a less painful one is beneficial, also gives the person a sense of control.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2007)

No matter what, this problem is more spiritual than chemical, the cause is what's producing the symptoms, not the other way around.
Medicine ONLY helps the symptoms, it can be "ok" for a period of time to get some peace, but once your addicted you've doubled your trouble and has to deal with abstinence upon all this.
If it helps you, that's good, but not forget the real cause of the problem and become dependent on medicine.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

MentallyIll said:


> No matter what, this problem is more spiritual than chemical, the cause is what's producing the symptoms, not the other way around.
> Medicine ONLY helps the symptoms, it can be "ok" for a period of time to get some peace, but once your addicted you've doubled your trouble and has to deal with abstinence upon all this.
> If it helps you, that's good, but not forget the real cause of the problem and become dependent on medicine.


 That's not true people who have depression, bipolar or schizophrenia have chemical imbalances in their brain. The neurotransmitters just aint working right so if your lucky to find the right med it might balance you out.

Or atleast thats the leading theory. But there isint a whole lot of evidence to back up the depression chemical imbalance argument except that some anti-depressant's work for some people. Then there are the unfortunate people who seem to get no relief from any traditional anti-depressant.

Id say the same goes for anxiety disorders as well. I wouldnt doubt that people who have severe anxiety have deficencies in the neurotrasmitter gaba. Which is why benzodiazepines work so good for anxiety they boost gaba which produces a calming effect.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

MentallyIll said:


> No matter what, this problem is more spiritual than chemical, the cause is what's producing the symptoms, not the other way around.
> Medicine ONLY helps the symptoms, it can be "ok" for a period of time to get some peace, but once your addicted you've doubled your trouble and has to deal with abstinence upon all this.
> If it helps you, that's good, but not forget the real cause of the problem and become dependent on medicine.


Hmmm... have to say I strongly disagree. Sorry! Firstly, a chemical named marijuana triggered my DP. I believe, and many scientists do as well, that once the marijuana left my body, my brain chemistry failed to reset to 'normal'. And unfortunately, it has remained that way for over 10 years. The vast majority of the population believe that mental illnesses are a result of unbalanced neurotransmitters in the brain. Spiritual? I doubt it but if someone is depressed because their mother died, well, this is a different case. This is something a person can potentially overcome in the absense of medication. It's a situational trigger. Mine was a chemical trigger. See the difference?

Medication works by altering brain chemistry so not sure what you're talking about there. Also, I'm in no way addicted to my medications. Anywho...that's all for now. I'm sure this thread will stir up some more debate. Debate away!


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2007)

Glad your meds help, universitygirl 8)


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

DelMar said:


> Glad your meds help, universitygirl 8)


Thanks.  Hope you find some relief too!


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2007)

Maybe your right universitygirl, mine was also kicked off by marijuana, but nothing chemical, more my thoughts on marijuana.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

bump


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2007)




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## Guest (Mar 28, 2007)

University girl, cant help you out here any further. I did try seroquel for a short time, but it didnt work for me, too many side-effects. I take benzo's, they do help. Do they still work for you?


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Mr Bump..hehehehhe. That's a good one, thanks for the laugh.

Benzos? Well, wish I could say I tried them. Hopefully I will try them. My psych won't prescribe them because she says they are highly addictive. Hope my new psych will prescribe them.  I need to establish my own "cocktail".

I'm quite suprised that this thread hasn't triggered much debate...

="DelMar"]University girl, cant help you out here any further. I did try seroquel for a short time, but it didnt work for me, too many side-effects. I take benzo's, they do help. Do they still work for you?[/quote]


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

> Hmmm... have to say I strongly disagree. Sorry! Firstly, a chemical named marijuana triggered my DP. I believe, and many scientists do as well, that once the marijuana left my body, my brain chemistry failed to reset to 'normal'. And unfortunately, it has remained that way for over 10 years. The vast majority of the population believe that mental illnesses are a result of unbalanced neurotransmitters in the brain. Spiritual? I doubt it but if someone is depressed because their mother died, well, this is a different case. This is something a person can potentially overcome in the absense of medication. It's a situational trigger. Mine was a chemical trigger. See the difference?


I seriously think thats been the best argument in the debate of chemical imbalances, well said unigirl!


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

university girl said:


> MentallyIll said:
> 
> 
> > No matter what, this problem is more spiritual than chemical, the cause is what's producing the symptoms, not the other way around.
> ...


thats a way to look at it... or your chemical trigger caused a situational trigger  i highly doubt your brain didn't forgot to "reset" itself. There's no permenant change within your brain. Trust me, it's marijuana. Marijuana is one of the safest abused drugs known. If your brain would forget to "reset" itself. Half the world would be to fucked up to function


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Uni Girl, this is great!



?reality? said:


> thats a way to look at it... or your chemical trigger caused a situational trigger i highly doubt your brain didn't forgot to "reset" itself. There's no permenant change within your brain. Trust me, it's marijuana. Marijuana is one of the safest abused drugs known. If your brain would forget to "reset" itself. Half the world would be to flower* up to function


reality ... forgot how to spell your name,
there are many medications, prescription and many rec drugs that alter brain chemistry. Some people in the world are prone to havning adverse effects from these meds -- all kinds of bad side effects including depersonalization (among many others).

I have an article I'll post yet again, about how certain very benign drugs, such as an antibiotic can induce DP in someone, then when the drug is stopped the DP goes away.

I personally have never had a rec drug in my life and have had DP/DR most of my life. Go figure that.

I'll find the article. It is fascinating.

*Drugs change the way your mind works.
For some that change doesn't "undo" itself or perhaps causes further changes that don't occur in the general population. Some of us have a predisposition to react with a negative outcome to a med or certain meds.*


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

*Uni Girl, fantastico!*

*Medication-Associated Depersonalization Symptoms: Report of 
Transient Depersonalization Symptoms Induced by Minocycline

Philip R. Cohen, MD 
South Med J 97(1):70-73, 2004. ? 2004 Lippincott Williams & 
Wilkins*

Posted 03/10/2004 
-------------------------------- 
*Medications Associated with Depersonalization Symptoms* 
This table is at the end of the article, including a very detailed 
bibliography. 
(This includes both Rec drugs and Rx drugs. The article notes that 
this induced DP is reversed when meds are discontinued. Obviously this 
is not the case for everyone.) 
Best, 
D

*"Alcohol 
Antihistamines 
Antipsychotics 
Anxiolytics - (Anti-anxiety medications) 
Benzodiazepines 
Caffeine 
Carbamazepine 
Fluoxetine 
Fluphenazine 
Hallucinogens 
Indomethacin 
LSD 
Marijuana 
Meta-chlorophenylpiperazine 
Minocycline (this article) *** an antibiotic
Nitrazepam 
Sodium pentothal *
-----------------

*Abstract* 
Patients with depersonalization disorder experience episodes in which 
they have a feeling of detachment from themselves. Symptoms of 
depersonalization may occur in individuals who have other mental 
disorders, or who have various medical conditions, or who have taken 
certain medications.

*A woman developed depersonalization symptoms after initiation of 
minocycline therapy. Her symptoms ceased after treatment was stopped 
and recurred when she restarted the drug. Medications that have been 
associated with causing symptoms of depersonalization are presented and 
the postulated pathogenesis by which some of these drugs induced 
depersonalization symptoms is discussed. Medication-associated 
depersonalization symptoms typically resolve once the inducing drug has 
been withdrawn.*

*Introduction *
Psychiatric syndromes that consist of disruptions of aspects of 
consciousness, environmental awareness, identity, memory, or motor 
behavior are classified as dissociative disorders.[1]

Depersonalization disorder is a dissociative disorder characterized by 
persistent or recurrent episodes in which the individual has a feeling 
of detachment or estrangement from one's self. Although their reality 
testing remains intact, the person may feel like they are living in a 
dream or like an automation.

Depersonalization disorder cannot be diagnosed if it is part of another psychiatric condition or if it is secondary to a medical disorder or if it is caused by a drug.[1-7]

In contrast, *transient depersonalization symptoms may occur in 
association with several mental disorders, medical conditions, or 
medications.*[1-42]

Minocycline is a semisynthetic tetracycline derivative that is well 
absorbed after oral administration.[43-45] Since it penetrates well 
into sebum, secondary to its high lipid solubility, it is commonly used 
in the treatment of acne vulgaris.[46] The potential profile of 
minocycline-associated adverse sequelae has been established.[43-51]

Central nervous system-related side effects that may occur in patients 
treated with this medication include headaches, light-headedness, 
pseudotumor cerebri (also referred to as benign intracranial 
hypertension, which clinically presents with blurred vision and 
headache), and vestibular disturbances (such as ataxia, vertigo, and 
dizziness).[43-46,52-54] 

A young woman with minocycline-induced transient depersonalization 
symptoms is described. Her symptoms began after initiating treatment 
with minocycline, ceased after stopping the medication, and recurred 
after restarting the drug.

Other medications that have been associated with causing symptoms of depersonalization are summarized and some of the postulated mechanisms for the pathogenesis of these drug-related symptoms are discussed.

*Conclusions 
Individuals may develop depersonalization symptoms after medication 
administration. Depersonalization symptoms appeared in a woman after 
starting minocycline therapy and resolved once the drug was stopped; 
subsequently, the symptoms promptly recurred when she rechallenged 
herself with minocycline and permanently resolved after the medication 
was discontinued. *

The pathophysiology of minocycline-associated depersonalization 
symptoms remains to be established. However, alternative mechanisms of pathogenesis?not necessarily mutually exclusive?have been hypothesized for some of the other medications associated with inducing 
depersonalization symptoms: hypersensitivity of the serotonin system, 
drug-related metabolic encephalopathy, panic disorder-related etiology, 
and substance-induced temporal disintegration possibly secondary to 
increased levels of brain activity.

*Medication-associated depersonalization symptoms typically resolve 
once the inducing drug has been withdrawn."*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
However, Dreamer's note. These symptoms may NOT resolve themselves. This is a good idea of what may have happened to Uni Girl and she has found a drug to reverse the effects of what triggered her DP.

For me, severe anxiety may have "taken my brain out of homeostasis" or balance, and for me it is in essense "reset" and has been for years.

I say once again: WE ARE ALL UNIQUE! Some people here are predisposed to dissociation. Some people in the world are predisposed to many medical conditions. NOT EVERY PERSON WHO SMOKES GETS LUNG CANCER as an example, even if they smoke like a chiminey.

More complex than it appears on the surface.
Peace,
Nite,
D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Also, Uni is using simpler words for the sake of communication. "Reset" is not a scientific term. Uni knows a lot about neurology.

Things we say here such as "chemical imbalance", or "electrical activity" in the brain. These are lay terms. No neurologist can explain these amazingly complex actions in these few words, but they have to suffice, or the doctor would be lecturing you for 7 hours on the process.

8) D


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

Anti psychotics made me feel like I had been given a frontal lobotomy.
I had 1, that was enough for me.
They also increased my anxiety, turns out it is one of the side effects. WTF!

Greg


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Dreamer said:


> Also, Uni is using simpler words for the sake of communication. "Reset" is not a scientific term. Uni knows a lot about neurology.
> 
> Things we say here such as "chemical imbalance", or "electrical activity" in the brain. These are lay terms. No neurologist can explain these amazingly complex actions in these few words, but they have to suffice, or the doctor would be lecturing you for 7 hours on the process.
> 
> 8) D


I know what she was sayin.

and i do know drugs can cause dp/dr effects, some more some less, and I do know if they are abused they can lead to receptor damaging. all I'm saying is I highly doubt marijuana has permenant changed her noggin. especially if only used a few times(am i correct on that one) I believe she just entered a state that was scary and a tid bit terrifying for her and she could never snap out of it and developed dp or dr, whatever she has. I smoked weed for 2 years, everyday... ALL day :O

i probably went through 10k haha, buckets and buckets of weed


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

your body including your brain is constantly renewing and healing itself a millions times a day.
People get their brains smashed in car accidents and they still recover.
i doubt soem marijuana would ever cause any permanent changes, it's funny how they have NEVER EVER proven that, but still likes people to believe it because they would lose billions if it became legal


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

?real?ity? said:


> and i do know drugs can cause dp/dr effects, some more some less, and I do know if they are abused they can lead to receptor damaging. all I'm saying is I highly doubt marijuana has permenant changed her noggin. especially if only used a few times(am i correct on that one) *I believe she just entered a state that was scary and a tid bit terrifying for her and she could never snap out of it and developed dp or dr, whatever she has.* I smoked weed for 2 years, everyday... ALL day :O
> 
> i probably went through 10k haha, buckets and buckets of weed


Well, I think you're missing the point. You said you have smoked a lot of pot, yet it has no effect on you. Yes I know people who have used pot on and off their whole lives and have no clue what DP is. That doesn't prove anything really. As I said, I have known people who smoked from age 14 to age 78, died at age 84 and never had a lung problem -- cancer or emphysema. Chris Reeve's wife never smoked and died of lung cancer at age 44?

I'm saying, each individual responds differently to drugs, or to stressful situations. In the case of the woman who got DP from the antibiotic. She didn't have a "stressful experience" -- she didn't seem to be unduly upset by it. They took her off the minoclizine sp? (an ANTIBIOTIC) then the DP went away. They put her back on it and the DP came back. It was obviously unpleasant enough that she didn't go back to that med.

The question is, why didn't that woman, or others who have EXPERIENCED DP as a side effect of a med, not "gotten stuck" in that mindset, or aren't afraid of it? Some are prone to dissociate some aren't.

Also, when I was young and had my first glass of wine (at 16) I had a horrendous DP/DR wash over me about 20 minutes after having the wine. I didn't expect it. I was already mildly DP/DR, and this made it HORRENDOUS. Hence, I have never been drunk.

I KNOW whenever I have some alcohol it causes my DP/DR to increase.

The point here is we don't know why this happens to me, and not to other people. We don't know why Uni Girl's DP and many others here started when it did after smoking one joint, or after smoking and taking drugs for years, then suddenly going DP.

There are many on the Board here who have non drug-induced DP. There are many here who DO have drug-induced DP. Each case is different. If researchers understood this mechansim, well, there'd be a treatment for DP.

Instead, Uni tried an antipsychotic and it helped. Researches would have to study her brain to figure how that happened. Bottom line that worked for her. And after 12 years of Hell if I recall, of chronic unremitting DP.

I also know chronic. In one sense I'm "used to it" as it is with me 24/7 at a certain level and gets worse sometimes -- for 30 years or so. Last 2 years, what is disappointing is I get no break at all. And have had about 10 hours of reality total in those past 25 ish years. Also, it's worse in my dreams.

Every single person here is unique. And we don't have a simple explanation for what is going on here.

Cheers,
D 8)


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

MentallyIll said:


> your body including your brain is constantly renewing and healing itself a millions times a day.
> People get their brains smashed in car accidents and they still recover.
> i doubt soem marijuana would ever cause any permanent changes, it's funny how they have NEVER EVER proven that, but still likes people to believe it because they would lose billions if it became legal


And people get their brains smashed in accidents and don't recover. Also know someone personally re: that. Flew through a windshield (no seatbelt of course), ended up in a ditch. Was the passenger. Drunk driver was rescued at the scene, my friend John wasn't, driver was unconscious. They didn't know he was there. Came back and got him about an hour later, though they said it didn't make that much difference.

He was in a coma for 50 days. When he woke up, he had to relearn everything, including walking. He was starting his own business, MBA from college, etc., he is now unable to hold more than simple jobs such as dishwashing, janitor, etc., but these give him a sense of purpose. He received a huge lawsuit payment so he is cared for the rest of his life. But his personality is changed. His memory is shot. His life, gone, around age 24. He is now 48, my age. He isn't a happy person. He lost himself quite some time ago, in an instant.

It isn't THAT easy to heal a damaged brain.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

aye, i'm aware everyone reacts differently to drugs. what i'm saying is no huge pemenant changes in her brain have occured. only her. she smoked the marijuana. it changed her preceptions a little bit, it scared her, obviously a negative reaction, she didn't snap out of those "changed" preceptions. marijuana is considered a psychedelic.

that's all i'm saying. her noggin physically is the same, no damage, no extreme chemical fuck over.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

My new neuro psychiatrist thinks it's an exercise in futility to try and figure out, or even pretend that one *can* figure out, if the drug triggered some imbalance that couldn't reset back to normal OR if one was left with psychological damage from the experience (trauma) that left him/her unable to come out of the dp cycle. Any scientist who claims to have a definitive answer for the biology vs psychology question is IMO, full of it...the brain is too complicated to separate into easy clean cut sections; it's a chicken or egg question, did the emotions trigger the chemicals or the chemicals trigger the emotions? no one really knows, but lots of scientists pretend, usually to sell pills.

I'm just curious though as to when you say "seroquel helped" what exactly does that mean? going back to work recently helped me a lot, but I'm not cured. is it enough improvement to make it worth the risk of taking a med that's in all honesty more dangerous than MJ?


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

?real?ity? said:


> aye, i'm aware everyone reacts differently to drugs. what i'm saying is no huge pemenant changes in her brain have occured. only her. she smoked the marijuana.* it changed her preceptions a little bit, it scared her, obviously a negative reaction, she didn't snap out of those "changed" preceptions.* marijuana is considered a psychedelic.
> 
> that's all i'm saying. her noggin physically is the same, no damage, no extreme chemical flower* over.


Aye? Are ye a pirate 8)

Here's the problem, a "changed perception" IS reflecting a change in the brain. It has to. If some heart medications make a person's heart beat faster or slower, a brain medication can make one dizzy, more anxious, hallucinate, who knows. Those things are real occurences.

What's difficult here is I am more of the school (and if one thinks about it too long it's a tad creepy) that WE are our BRAINS. Of course it is more complicated than that, but if you take a drug that gives you a reaction SOMETHING in the brain changed.

As noted, we have mostly all experienced "deja vu" -- at that moment, there is a "blip" of some sort that is "off" -- a "loose wire" that fixes itself. But as w/DP, deja-vu has become permanent in certain people. DEJA-VU. How can that be a "reaction to something." There is at minimum a change in the brain that hasn't "undone" itself. I don't have the case study here, and don't feel like looking for it.

People take drugs to SEEK OUT a change of consciousness. We know specific drugs cause specific reactions. Alcohol is a relaxant a downer... (for me it brings on hideous DP). I don't know, different drugs give a specific effect. THAT IS CHANGING THE BRAIN.

What causes the brain to remain in that place when one doesn't want it to isn't clear, but I'd hazard a guess that if the brain went from point A to point B and didn't return to point A, it's still at point B.

We "experience" things, BECAUSE of our brains. When they are working fine, we don't think twice about it. If they aren't working fine, well we seek help, as it is keeping us from funcitoning properly -- just like any other organ in the body, the brain can "malfunction", "get sick". Researchers are only on the cusp of understanding the brain. And really only getting new understanding on the entire body.

D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

[rula] said:


> I'm just curious though as to when you say "seroquel helped" what exactly does that mean? going back to work recently helped me a lot, but I'm not cured. is it enough improvement to make it worth the risk of taking a med that's in all honesty more dangerous than MJ?


I can't speak for Uni girl. I only know her through her posts, but it is my understanding she has had serious severe DP/DR for several years. She has had to leave university for a while etc. -- she has to answer this.

If she feels THAT much better, and was willing to try seroquel, (which I have considered, but am tired of experimenting with meds and fear getting worse) -- I'd say that means she has weighed the RISK/BENEFIT and chosen to take the seroquel as she is in Hell.

As noted... some here have probably more severe symptoms than others. I don't want to think about it as I feel I'm sorta/kinda doing alright now, but I've had such bad episodes, if I stayed in them too long, I wouldn't care to live. Full stop.

It is like any other illness, say severe pain, perhaps one's only option is surgery that is dangerous. One weighs dysfunction in life vs. risk of the surgery. If you are in tremendous pain, know the risks, that is your choice.

Also, I can't speak re: seroquel, but I know individuals with SCHIZOPHRENIA (we haven't determined what Uni Girl has and I don't think it's schizophrenia), but said individuals have taken these meds their entire life. They hate them. They hate the side effects, but many will say, they can now function and that is worth it all.

And that isn't true for everyone. But I suppose I shouldn't complain about somone seeking help from wind chimes and candles (sorry if I get stupid over stuff like that), and I don't understand why people are aghast that Uni took an antipsychotic. She has been sick for a number of years with no relief.

She'd have to answer it.

Also, true, we don't understand everything. No one does. The best we can do is inform ourselves and take a risk/benefit re: what we're taking. I can tell you, I wouldn't smoke a joint if you paid me million bucks, and I'm not lying. My terror is I would fall back into DEEP serious DP I have experienced (less now than in the past due to MY meds, time, therapy).

I have one drink a year, or for a special occasion and usually only with food. I don't NEED alcohol either. It doesn't relax me without causing DP/DR. For Uni, she acheived siginificant RELIEF from her DP/DR.

If on a scale of 1-10, her DP was at 10 and now it is at 5 after other things did not work for years, I say go for it.

Uni, curious as to how you would rate your improvement on a scale such as that?

D


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Dreamer said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> > aye, i'm aware everyone reacts differently to drugs. what i'm saying is no huge pemenant changes in her brain have occured. only her. she smoked the marijuana.* it changed her preceptions a little bit, it scared her, obviously a negative reaction, she didn't snap out of those "changed" preceptions.* marijuana is considered a psychedelic.
> ...


aye i know how the brain works and aye i am a pirate.

but I'll leave this arguement with two words that can be looked in the dictionary. placebo, and ocd


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

?real?ity? said:


> placebo, and ocd


aye second that :wink: I seem to remember Uni girl making a comment a year or so ago about her dp improving "when she dates a new boyfriend" (paraphrasing big time). where was the MJ _chemical imbalance_ that can't be undone then?

then again I am taking Stupamax, and it could've been someone else...out before I get chocked :lol:

congrats on finding something that works!


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## Coming?Back2Life (Oct 20, 2006)

i probably went through 10k haha, buckets and buckets of weed

LMFAO M8  i can SOOOO relate to that post i smoked for 2 years constantly as well b4 a viral infection triggered my state. I smoked between 15-25 buckets a day and the amount of weed i was putting in each one was enough to make 2 or 3 joints no problem i was going through an ounce a week (28-30grams of weed) hehehe and i`ve always wondered if i have some serious mental illness although never been diagnosed with it or even never been diagnosed with depersonalization do u think it would be worth seeing a useless ass doctor about this or just continue on my own path?


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

Bright youth :?


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

reality said:


> but I'll leave this arguement with two words that can be looked in the dictionary. placebo, and ocd


I probably shouldn't even ask at this point, but what does that mean? :? 
"placebo, and ocd" -- OCD doesn't exist? Well there's a gross misrepresentation. I don't understand the rest.

Would you care to elaborate?

And why is everyone so crabby here, LOL? Re: Uni, and again I haven't followed all of her posts, I know with myself, especially when I was younger, I might have "better times" and "worse times" in my life. Certain things gave me some improvement, others made me feel worse.

But overall, everything I tried actually "overstimulated me" and I got progessively worse. One particular medication made a huge difference for me. That was after searching for quite some time -- years. I'm still on it. Won't go off of it unless I'm forced to, or something that is labeled "For DP, Guaranteed Results" comes along and is approved for long or short term use by the FDA. (And even THAT doesn't mean any drug is safe.)

What can drag one down is chronicity and little relief.
Again, Hell, if it works it works ....

*But what do you mean, "placebo, ocd"* :?: :?: :?:

I know I shouldn't ask, in this thread Darren answered the question above.

Whatevea'


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2007)

Dreamer said:


> Darren answered the question above.


 :lol:


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Dreamer said:


> And why is everyone so crabby here, LOL? Re: Uni,


She asked for controversy, twice...LOL.

I'm crabby myself because I'm having to taper off my recent desperation med, Topamax, due to serious side effects, dangerous low blood pressure being just one of 'em. and I really hate to see another young probably very healthy person go on a medication with a dangerous sx profile when she probably doesn't have to. Diabetes is not as easily reversible as low blood pressure.

Yes, I did read your argument Dreamer. DP/DR is NOT schizophrenia, it is NOT epilepsy. we don't have to make the kind of drastic decisions that affect our health that they do. I walked into my neuro's waiting room yesterday, looked around me at the patients, most in wheelchairs, and felt like a total *fraud*. Like I shouldn't be taking up doctor's time from people who need real help!

But do some of us have worse cases of DP than the rest? Well, I'm not sure that there's a way of quantifying that. The only way the degree of severity of DP can be measured is through the user's own words, and that's very subjective. For all I know Dreamer my DP and yours are identical, and the only difference is that I've done enough drugs in my life and been drunk enough times that it doesn't freak me out as much.

It's undeniable that we already know what the cure to dp/dr is! day after day we get people who pop in here and announce that they're cured and repeat to us the exact same formula, it's always the same, whether it's Janine after 20 years, or some kid after 6 months...the rest of us are still not ready though or maybe just confused on how to go about it, we're still waiting for a pill (at whatever cost?), for an answer...we already have it.

Dreamer and Uni-Girl IMO you've both become so involved in working with mental health, DP/DR related issues that as noble as that may be, it's become impossible for you not to focus on your condition, and not focusing is obviously key.

but yea, whatever.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

rula said:


> It's undeniable that we already know what the cure to dp/dr is! day after day we get people who pop in here and announce that they're cured and repeat to us the exact same formula, it's always the same, whether it's Janine after 20 years, or some kid after 6 months...the rest of us are still not ready though or maybe just confused on how to go about it, we're still waiting for a pill (at whatever cost?), for an answer...we already have it.
> 
> *Dreamer and Uni-Girl IMO you've both become so involved in working with mental health, DP/DR related issues that as noble as that may be, it's become impossible for you not to focus on your condition, and not focusing is obviously key. *
> 
> but yea, whatever.


Well, that's an unfortunate statement. I've gotten to know quite a few DP people over the years. Some are on disability, some are not. Some have co-existing conditions such as myself (anxiety/depression). It is extremely difficult to get on disability in the US for ANYTHING.

And why would someone CHOOSE to be sick, that is always a mystery to me. That always astounds me and always leads me back to why the public has no interest in mental illness as it is "weakness, laziness, faking, etc."

In terms of researching this, that started in my 30s. As I will remind you (I'm not speaking for Uni at all, don't know her full story) I felt DP/DR that WASN'T scary when I was 4 or 5. Where in God's name did I get that perceptual distortion from? A book? I researched it when I was reading Dr. Seuss?

Again, as my story is old news, my mother was a psychiatrist, knew what was wrong with me, had diagnosed it in her patients (I looked through her files after her death) in the 1960s, '70s, and early 80s -- but didn't tell me what it was or let me seek help.

There was also no internet, and I was supposed to keep most of went on in my family a secret.

So, I went on with my life, pushing, hard. I have accomplished a LOT. I won't go through that list. I have still accomplished a lot. But all that time, early on, not knowing what I had, DOING, distracting, etc. did not change the DP. It was very bad at times. It affected my schoolwork, relationships, everything.

And when I was diagnosed, I was told it was incurable. And per my mother, she made a joke of it. Call it lack of coping skills -- yes that could be a factor. No emotional support for years, yes.

But no matter how I pushed myself it made no difference.

Also, this would imply that anyone for instance who is a consumer member of NAMI, or speak out about their mental illness is perpetuating it, which is hogwash. For many this "freedom" is ... indeed "freedom" for me. I can still use talents I have for this cause.

Then Harris Goldberg who made the film "Numb" about DP is making his DP worse??????? Will that cause Matthew Perry to GET DP. Also, Goldberg, who first made the "Deuce Bigalow" films (which I have passed on) -- and who is a successful writer/director STILL has DP and has for years. My husband has a coworker in his late '60s, who is a corporate attorney who has had DP most of his life. My husband has had OCD most of his life and was misdiagnosed literally for about 25 years. He still had it, even though he was misdiagnosed.

Sad, but you've chosen an unfortunate stance that only perpetuates misunderstanding of neurological disorders, psychiatric disorders, and you haven't much empathy.

I don't like lack of empathy. Just me.

And no, I don't know how you feel, but you don't know how I feel, and researching about it hasn't made me this way. I've also read extensively about other mental illnesses ... I don't have those.

But the biggest question is how in God's name would a 4 year old in the early 1960s cause DP/DR in herself without knowing what it is.

And yes, mental illness can be as serious as any physical illness, as it is a physical illness. You can die from it. My friend killed herself 12/04. Severe OCD/anxiety. She couldn't ask for help as in part it was in violation of the way she was raised by her church.

Well, this is disappointing. I will continue to try to educate people about this so that so many don't have to suffer.

You have no empathy. I can't handle lack of empathy.
Unfortunate rula, but we are only words on a screen to each other.

Oh yes, why don't philosophers such as Sartre have DP? Why don't doctors have the illnesses they specialize in? Usually people who go into the specialty they have is that they themselves or a family member was affected. I know many doctors who have said as much (but don't give all the details.) There are many mentally ill therapists. Someone here mentioned their therapist experienced DP. I know another individual who no longer posts here whose therapist also had a long awful bout with DP and was helped immensely by medication.

And do you recall, Janine posted many times, she took Valium for 20 years. I'd search for that posts -- and that didn't fry her brain. She is no longer on meds now to the best of my understanding, I don't know.

And for the first time, I'm not defensive, I'm disappointed.
All the work, seems for naught. Yet I realize, no it isn't. When I get an email from someone who says, OMG, I've had this for 15 years and I never knew what this was, am I crazy? -- well if even one person emails me with something like that, I'm thrilled.

And the question of all questions. And I know, we are all entitled to our own opinions -- why are you taking advantage of this great site if DP is no big deal to you? The guys who created it didn't know what was wrong with themselves and FOUND OUT themselves.

I vote for their research, and the work of others, and for Rev keeping this site going, and understanding the brain vs. sticking one's head in the sand. I'm also fascinated by serial killers! LOL. Haven't become one yet. Again, it is the study of psychology, but I've learned enough tricks of the trade from reading profilers ..... hmmmmmm.

Ah well, as you say, sadly, whateva...
Anyone who has gotten better from this, God Bless them, however they got better. Isn't that what we want here?

Very weird thread. You'd also be aghast at the medication I've been on for quite some time, that literally saved my life. So be it. My life, my choice.

D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

PS -- rula we do NOT know what DP is. We really don't rula. I don't know how you have decided you know what it is.

I have theories, but I'm frequently stumped by this. We are each unique. I know there are varieties, as one person here for examply only got DR during PMS, she was symptom free (if I'm remembering correctly) the rest of the month.

Why?

Why do women with post-partum depression get DP sometimes ... terrible ... that abates when the depression improves or they're on medication. Why did my friend w/OCD/panic have her DP disappear when she got on treatment for her OCD -- an SSRI she has never gone off.

Well, when she stopped for her pregancy all the symptoms came back. She could barely stand it. She did that twice, through two pregnancies.

You are lumping everyone here into one basket.

*We are all unique! My final word. My mantra. And we all do the best we can.*


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

This is an unfortunate debate. Whatever the causes of our problems we have to respect that we aren't frauds. This conditon...whatever causes it...is real when you are experiencing it. I dunno. My attitude changed when I read my Dad's letters. He wasn't dwelling on it...the dissociation hit him. Little wonder I've had it myself. We are all different. For a start, we all have different co-morbid conditions. So many of us aren't only depersonalised, but struggling with depression, OCD and other disorders. Alienation from self isn't an easily quantifiable thing, but it should be taken seriously.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Miss_Starling said:


> This is an unfortunate debate. Whatever the causes of our problems we have to respect that we aren't frauds. This conditon...whatever causes it...is real when you are experiencing it.


I didn't say the condition wasn't real. I did say _most_ of us aren't doing enough to help ourselves. not even following the basic common sense advice including obsessively not coming to this board; this includes ME. and thank you Dreamer for pointing that out, I will no longer take advantage of this board.



> this would imply that anyone for instance who is a consumer member of NAMI, or speak out about their mental illness is perpetuating it, which is hogwash.


No, focusing outwards is a requirement unique to dp/dr only, not to every mental illness.



> You have no empathy. I can't handle lack of empathy.
> Unfortunate rula, but we are only words on a screen to each other.


I don't know how you unfortunately chose to read lack of empathy in my words. I don't want to see Uni Girl end up with dp/dr AND diabetes. But I've had a tough life Dreamer, by the time I was eight I'd witnessed a massacre of two refugee camps (by an army which should remain anonymous) that was neither the beginning nor the end of all the war horrors I've lived through...maybe I have a tough edge to me that comes off lacking in empathy. but walking into that epilepsy center yesterday broke my heart, and made me realize that I am still LUCKY! it was a sobering dose of reality check.

You write some of the most intelligent well thought posts on this site; we DP'ers can still hold jobs and make hollywood movies...we should stop comparing ourselves to people with serious psychiatric disorders. if that's lack of empathy, then I guess I'm just a horrible person.

over and out for good.

p.s. as far as I know Sartre clearly did have DP.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Again, I am not comparing tragedy. I am talking about DP.



rula said:


> No, focusing outwards is a requirement unique to dp/dr only, not to every mental illness.


*WRONG -- NAMI would have your head on that one. Where do you get your information?*
Focusing outward, living in the present, is KEY to all mentally ill people trying to do the best they can each day. It is a mantra of the NAMI movement. As is "In Our Own Voice". Where do you get these "facts" from? Are you a member of NAMI? Locally?

But accepting one's illness and talking about it, is considered one way of getting out there and having a sense of purpose. It is astonishing how it helps so many. Famous people who talk about their illnesses, such as Patty Duke, Margot Kidder, William Styron, Tipper Gore and "lesser known" people, regular people change the POVs of many -- students, the community, religious groups, families, the police!

As noted, it was in the past shameful for women to talk about breast cancer. Women coming out of the closet are not "complaining" -- they are making others feel less alone. Empowering them with coping skills and knowledge to make informed decisions.

Firstly if you are gathering Sartre or any other existentialst philosophre HAD DP, prove it. You don't know about that philosophy. The lay term depersonalization is confused with the symptom. I believe Jeff Abugel has that POV despite having DP himself, I don't agree with his incorporating that type of literature into a medical condition; it is misleading, but that is his POV.

Give me one example that Sartre suffered from any mental disorder. It isn't true, you aren't familiar with his life and deconstructionist, communist philosophy. The individual who actually COINED the term, was a man Amiel who suffered from this his whole life, BEFORE THE ILLNESS WAS IDENTIFIED. Dugas in the late 1800s who was studying deja-vu, jamais vu, etc. and perceptual distortions, found this individual's "Journal Intime" -- it describes DP to a "t". Dugas USED a term that a sufferer had described himself as. So the individual had the illness before it was named.

I also know people with epilepsy. Why would you feel guilty going in for help? You don't feel "bad enough"? This isn't a contest. And I'm sorry you have witnessed the ravages of war, but so have thousands of people in this life and worse. I don't compare my DP/DR to that.

I am stating that it can be as devastating an illness as any other. It is on a spectrum. Do you know that all mental illnesses can be more or less severe. Some with autism can function on a very high level, others can barely funciton.

I have no clue where you're coming from.

To insinuate that some of us here choose to be ill. So be it.

*Why does that bother you so much? If you believe that of me or others here, why should that be of any concern to you? Others have cancer, some deal better with it than others. Would you crab at someone who isn't handling it as well as another person, or any illness.?*

How can you really be concerned for Uni girl? Empathy would mean you understand her choice of treatment for herself. If it works, why the Hell would it bother you.

Again, I see this is why a lot of longtimers have left this site. I am sick of posting in the top forum. Even when I have positive things to post re: research, films, articles.

Shame on you for your ignorance is all I can say.
It is a pity. Really.
Why did you give an interview to "Elle" if this was no big deal for you? Why didn't you SAY it is no big deal? All points of view seem to have been covered including the unfortunate lack of drug-induced DP, and some comments by "professors" that this is the "illness du jour."

You mentioned suffering feeling DPd as bloody Hell in the heat. The torture you went through to be interviewed, then wanted your story eliminated from the article. Why be interviewed in the first place?

If you believe this is something easy for certain people to deal with. Think again.

And for the love of God, I am not comparing the suffering of war to DP. These things are relative.

Why are you here?
I am sick of posting in this forum and getting attacked, simply for telling my experience. I think I'll study more serial killer books and work on becoming one. :roll:
Show me proof that Sartre had DP. I'll lay money on it. I know he didn't.
Cheers,
D[/quote]


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

rula said:


> *as far as I know* Sartre clearly did have DP


So it's best to avoid researching the facts? If you were a philosophy student, which you obviously aren't, you would read Sartre as well as many similar philosophers. Would that give you DP? "As far as you know?" If you had to hand in a research paper on Sartre, and you said, "As far as I know", you'd get an F.

If I'm wrong about Sartre, I'll pay you $50.00 I don't have, I swear to God.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

rula said:


> and Dreamer I didn't volunteer like I said, but I did tolerate 95+ degrees weather, high humidity and really bad dp to speak for over two hours about my dp/dr and not a single mention of my drug induced dp (no need for direct quote) was anywhere in a 3 page long article for "lack of space" LOL.


Just so we know on that particular day you had "really bad DP". Talking with the journalist was difficult. I empathized with that. I could "connect with you" on that.

I also understand from being in touch with the journalist was that there was a lot of difficulty in getting things across. Just as Goldberg is conveying DP as a comedy, and Elle conveyed DP with debate -- these are ways to reach a larger audience. "As Good As It Gets" is a comedy about OCD. OCD isn't funny either.

As noted, I have received emails from people who read the Elle article, had never heard the word Depersoanlization before, and Googled, found my site or others and were greatly relieved. Some had never been diagnosed. They had no idea what the Hell was going on with them. That gives me satisfaction, and if it is my "life's work" now, *why does that bother you so much? That's what I don't understand.*

Please don't put DP and war in the same discussion.

And again, all illness has a huge spectrum.

Again, I should know better than to post in the main forum. I'm too negative, I'm not hopeful, I'm this, I'm that. I'm just sick of it.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Miss_Starling said:


> This is an unfortunate debate. Whatever the causes of our problems we have to respect that we aren't frauds. This conditon...whatever causes it...is real when you are experiencing it. I dunno. My attitude changed when I read my Dad's letters. He wasn't dwelling on it...the dissociation hit him. Little wonder I've had it myself. We are all different. For a start, we all have different co-morbid conditions. So many of us aren't only depersonalised, but struggling with depression, OCD and other disorders. Alienation from self isn't an easily quantifiable thing, but it should be taken seriously.


AMEN.
Now rula, will you attack Miss Starling?
Done.
Again, to anyone I respect here, forgive me. This just gets my goat.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

To be honest I feel so mental today I am surprised I can write anything...it seems weird that I can analyse philosophy or compose music, argue with people, give advice to my family on the phone, arrange bills with housemates, think about stuff on the radio.#

I basically wonder why you should have a problem with people speaking out about this disorder -- because that is what UniG and Dreamer are about.

If you think you are a fraud of a patient and that people shouldn't take tablets for depersonalisation...maybe you are alienated from the fact this is a mental disorder, not a common cold.


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## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

Dreamer said:


> Again, I should know better than to post in the main forum. I'm too negative, I'm not hopeful, I'm this, I'm that. I'm just sick of it.


Dreamer, please don't stop posting here. 
I for one always find your posts interesting and insightful. I'm sure most of the people who visit this site feel the same way.
Including all those people who visit without posting. 
(hi there lurkers! :wink


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Dreamer, you seem to be going off on alot of other stuff. All I was saying is there's not permenante change in her noggin. That's why I suggested, placebo AND ocd. reread if you still don't understand

we're not that robotic. are emotions might be a result of chemicals, but we forget how much our own thoughts can change that. oh, and don't take these agruements to seriously. i see that to often here 

they become 40 page 1000 word post

edit: Oh and dream, I don't think most of us with dp choose to be here in that sense. We just have high anxiety levels and are very obsessive in our thought process.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2007)

====


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2007)

====


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## Jane (Aug 14, 2006)

> I watched a documentary about the war photographer James Nachtwey yesterday and when you see the horror in which many people live their daily lifes on this earth, my DP becomes insignificant to me. Truly. Seeing other peoples disdvantages, can bring ones own problems into perpsective. I interpreted Rula's experience in the drs office this way.


Right on. When I was younger, I was a hypochondriac UNTIL I entered the drs office and saw all the truly sick people - suddenly I was healthy as a horse. People have asked on this board whether or not DP exists in such places that are terrorized by war, famine, daily, and my guess is no, at least not in the way some suffer it, with OCD type symptoms. People are too busy trying not to starve to death to focus on themselves, get caught in the obsessive thought loop that is the halmark of DP. 
As much as some people on this board like to believe that mental illness is strictly biological in nature, there is proof that this is not the case, and rula's adivce about looking outwards rather than in is in essence how one can significantly reduce their DP - or at least, learn better coping skills, put it into perspective, etc.



> It's undeniable that we already know what the cure to dp/dr is! day after day we get people who pop in here and announce that they're cured and repeat to us the exact same formula, it's always the same, whether it's Janine after 20 years, or some kid after 6 months...the rest of us are still not ready though or maybe just confused on how to go about it, we're still waiting for a pill (at whatever cost?), for an answer...we already have it.
> 
> Dreamer and Uni-Girl IMO you've both become so involved in working with mental health, DP/DR related issues that as noble as that may be, it's become impossible for you not to focus on your condition, and not focusing is obviously key.


I agree, I agree, I agree. This is the same for things like panic disorder, when people (and don't dare attack me on this for 'lack of empathy', I've had panic attacks for a great deal of my life) become so focused on their panic that they rearrange their lives around it. Don't go to the grocery store because the lights set off an attack. Sound familiar? If people 'become' their illnesses rather than aknowledge them as a portion of themselves, that can be controlled, eventually it becomes nearly impossible to unwind oneself from one's illness.

And how does one find relief from panic? The most popular method right now is CBT. 90% success rate. Thought-changing. I agree that there must be a biological component to mental illness, but for anxiety-spectrum disorders, these 'chemicals' can be tamed by thought.



> Please don't put DP and war in the same discussion.


I don't see why one shouldn't put war and DP in the same discussion. Dreamer, you include all kinds of abstract points in your posts, why can't rula? It's good IMHO, to consider things going on outside of one's life. Like war. Also, how do you know that Sartre didn't have DP? I'm curious about this one. If people with DP look 'normal', how can anybody tell what went on Sartre's head? Philosophers have the 'thought' part of DP down pretty well - even Abugel wrote that DP has philosophical implications. Whether you agree or not, did Sartre ever write 'I do not have DP'? Just curious.



> Where do you get these "facts" from? Are you a member of NAMI? Locally?


Just because you're a member of NAMI doesn't mean you're 100% correct about everything to do with mental illness. You are very intelligent but don't forget, other people have been through things you haven't and gained perspectives that you do not have. That's the genius of a self-help board - people with different perspectives can come together and help one another.



> All I was saying is there's not permenante change in her noggin. That's why I suggested, placebo AND ocd. reread if you still don't understand.


Agreed, ?real?ity. The thing is, I understand that Uni has suffered, I have been to her website, but I also believe that she has had anxiety for most of her life, from reading what she posted on her site. Marijuana would certainly aggravate an anxiety response in some people, but it would not change the brain function, cause a permanent change. If such a thing did happen, doctors would know. Half the world would have DP if pot could change brain chemistry. Marijuana can be a catalyst for mental illness, but I don't believe it can directly cause it. Marijuana is like caffeine IMHO - those prone to anxiety shouldn't use them, but would you say that drinking a coffee every morning could permanently alter your brain? Caffeine is a drug too, isn't it?

Okay, I've said enough. Hopefully I don't get flamed for this post, and Dreamer and I have already had our fair share of disagreements on this board, which I have been 'attacked' for. Please, anybody who disagrees with me, note I am not 'attacking' you! I just have a different opinion. That's all, no need for hostility.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

thanks for writing out better than i could jane. i'm lazy haha

and yes, caffeine is a drug


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## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

Jane said:


> Right on. When I was younger, I was a hypochondriac UNTIL I entered the drs office and saw all the truly sick people - suddenly I was healthy as a horse. People have asked on this board whether or not DP exists in such places that are terrorized by war, famine, daily, and my guess is no, at least not in the way some suffer it, with OCD type symptoms. People are too busy trying not to starve to death to focus on themselves, get caught in the obsessive thought loop that is the halmark of DP.


Actually mental illness is very prevelent in places that are terrorized by war, famine, etc. PTSD is common and so are other disorders caused by trauma which would include DP and DR. Mental Illness also occurs in developing nations.

Article on mental illness suffered by Afganis after decades of war


> After more than two decades of war, 95 percent of Afghanistan's 22.9 million people have been affected psychologically, the World Health Organization estimates, and one in five suffers from mental health problems. Dr. Timorsha Musamim, chief psychiatrist at the Alaoddin One Hundred Bed Mental Hospital in Kabul, believes the figure is higher and that as many as 30 percent of Afghans may suffer from anxiety, depression, psychosomatic problems such as insomnia and other symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. A survey of Kabul women last year by the International Medical Corps, a relief group based in Santa Monica, showed that 98 percent met the standard diagnostic criteria for post-traumatic stress syndrome, major depression or severe anxiety.


and
Article on mental illness in developing countries



> Among the many myths which shroud the subject of world poverty is the idea that the poor somehow do not suffer as the rich do. And the commonly-held belief that mental illness is rare in the developing world - that life is simple but sane, lacking the mental and emotional stresses of complex modern societies - is an extreme example of that myth.
> 
> For myth it is. There is no fundamental difference between rich and poor countries in either the kind, severity or incidence of mental illness. According to the World Health Organization, for example, there are an estimated 40 million men, women and children suffering from severe and untreated mental illness in the developing world today.





Jane said:


> Please, anybody who disagrees with me, note I am not 'attacking' you! I just have a different opinion. That's all, no need for hostility.


Quite. 
You can disagree with someone about something and still keep it polite. You might not like something someone says but you can still respect them as a person.
We're all struggling. We should be trying to help each other.
It's easier to do that if we don't get angry.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

[rula] said:


> is it enough improvement to make it worth the risk of taking a med that's in all honesty more dangerous than MJ?


 Well seroquel and all the atypcals are more dangerous then weed or shrooms or ecstasy or LSD for that matter. They are risky drug's and more info is coming out about there dangers everyday. But you gotta look at the risk/benefit factor. If seroquel cured her dp/dr and nothing else did then it's probley well worth the risk for her.

I take seroquel for bipolar and im pretty worried about the risk of diabetes now. I havent gained one bit of weight on seroquel in fact i lost weight but apparently seroquel raises blood sugar levels on its own so you dont need to gain weight to develop diabetes.

My doc actually wants me off the stuff but im not really sure if i wanna go off it. It really helps when i get one of those mixed states and it calms my head down alot. I may just take it when i absolutly need it instead of taking it everyday.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

university girl said:


> I'm quite suprised that this thread hasn't triggered much debate...


It has now! I just got back from London for the weekend and had a fantastic time, was feeling relaxed etc. I was away from the internet and thus this site. Coming back and reading this makes me realize how depressing and negative this site is mostly, so on Rula's cue I have also decided to leave permanently. I cant be bothered to focus on the negativity on here anymore and to tell you the truth Rula is right when she says that the "cure" for DP/DR is known. There are so many people recovered. I don't find it surprising that most of those that are recovered don't stick around here long.

And anyway if DP/DR is biological or psychological who gives a shit?? Either way it's not permanent in 99.999999% of cases. And for those that may feel that it is permanent, it certainly is while you hold that belief.

Goodbye and good luck


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

jeremy said:


> university girl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm quite suprised that this thread hasn't triggered much debate...
> ...


This is both biological and psychological. More knowledge leads to better treatment, and a potential cure.

I reread this, to see if I was especially nasty -- I acknowledged the pain of war that ... rula expressed I believe -- her suffering. Again, I see I am only trying to be understood and defend my POV with fact, not just assumption. If I am seen as being lacking in empathy, I regret that. I see it in other people here, not just in this thread.

It is my biggest beef.

*I can only say, as jeremy has made this choice to leave, I have made the choice to help educate people about this disorder which affects everyone differently. If that is a problem for others, so be it. If anyone believes I am wallowing in this, so be it.* As noted, I was not acquainted with a single person w/DP until I was 42. I didn't begin research in earnest until I was around 30 is or older.

I was DP/DR episodically from age 4/5, and chronically really about after age 12. I didn't learn to become DP. Also, my thoughts are no longer existential I do not "ruminate" on my condition, I study it. These days I mainly feel the chronic perceptual distoritions which make my life terribly uncomfortable, sometimes ubearably so and I use distraction 1 million times a day.

I do not read many of the posts of the newbies, as I no longer feel that way, and can't respond. I really don't think I complain much at all here either, about my syptoms.

My thoughts frequently are in the negative, i.e. -- someone I care about will die of a heart attack -- these are the excessive worry symptoms of GAD which I believe is my real diagnosis. Again, through CBT I push these thoughts away 1 million times a day. Yes it works, but is no cure for me.

Also, one must understand that laypeople confuse literary "existentialism" with a medical problem. The existentialist movement is more political and philosophical.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

*Existentialism* - again easily found by simply Googling if you want more info.

"Philosophical movement oriented toward two major themes, the analysis of human existence and the centrality of human choice. Existentialism's chief theoretical energies are thus devoted to questions about ontology and decision.

It traces its roots to the writings of S?ren Kierkegaard and Friedrich Nietzsche. As a philosophy of human existence, existentialism found its best 20th-century exponent in Karl Jaspers; as a philosophy of human decision, its foremost representative was Jean-Paul Sartre.

*Sartre finds the essence of human existence in freedom ? in the duty of self-determination and the freedom of choice ? and therefore spends much time describing the human tendency toward "bad faith," reflected in humanity's perverse attempts to deny its own responsibility and flee from the truth of its inescapable freedom."*
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The philosophy is as complicated as deconstructionism in literature. I can't follow most of it to save my life. But I have been assigned such reading in uni, etc.

*If you read "Nausea" you will find it is a rather weak and boring book. Sartre tries to use a novel/fiction to convey his philosophy. His strongest works are his plays such as "No Exit", and his political/philosophical writings. He didn't like being remembered for that as much as his later works, but oddly enough that book, his earlier work is what he is remembered for.*

As many mistaken healthy people say, "Oh I have felt DP/DR. I have it, I recognize those symptoms in myself", and as my healthy cousin says, "Well all of us have a touch of OCD don't we?" -- this is simply a misinterpretation -- my cousin doesn't have a whit of OCD. He simply doesn't get it. It's like saying, "Oh I'm forgetful, I must have dementia" -- many don't see the symptoms of Alzheimer's in others, or deny it, until the bitter end. And STILL don't get it until the person becomes completely clueless as to what they're doing.

Also, the word senile only means someone who is in their sixties. As the word octagenarian sp? means someone is in their eighties. Basically more lay misinterpretations. Many perpretrated by the media.

*My personal observations, based on life experience, based on research. I am expressing my opinion, and I don't intend to attack anyone.

I felt Unigirl was especially attacked here, to be honest more than I was. Her choice was not respected, though others feel THEIR choices are the only answer. Someone said she "provoked this" somehow, forgot the wording. Brought this attack on herself. So right now, I have my own POV which sometimes I express with frustration and anger.*

Also, many who have left here, are not cured. Many have gone on as one gets older one has families, jobs, or some are seriously ill and don't care to come back anyway; I also know one such person who was tired of being attacked for his research that he posted -- not complaints.

Again, I know such people. And if they come back and say they are not cured they are "downers". Others are cured. Different flavors of illness and coping is all. You would be ticked off at people I know who are "doing so much better" but have been on medications for a long time and won't go off of them.

Too bad these arguments get so heated. I am passionate about my attempt to educate those who don't believe that this can be very disabling for people, but also it is a platform for me to discuss *that mental illnesses of all kinds exist, are real.* Most people don't even believe that depression can be serious (they equate it with "feeling a little blue"), or even that schizoprhenia and OCD _exist._ And the stigma against these illnesses continues.

Ah, strange concept as well. There are many with schizoprhenia, bipolar, OCD, and other mental illnesses who hold very high positions in many fields. Intelligence is not a measure of whether one can have a mental illness or not. I am most comfortable being out of the 9-5 and writing.

There is a man who is schizophrenic who is writing his memoirs at the mo. He was director of a Fortune 500 company most of his life, after he received proper medical treatment. Many performers you see go up and down have mental illness. Howard Stern and Howie Mandel have OCD. Ted Turner is bipolar. It ruined his marriage to Jane Fonda, and he has gone so manic as to ruin business deals. Temple Grandin has Asperger's or high functioning autism and has a Ph.D. in agriculture/animal husbandry. Margot Kidder's career was destroyed by her bipolar. Same with Patty Duke, but they are very successful.

Donny Osmond has panic disorder. His sister Marie had severe post-partum depression with DEPERSONALIZATION and was hospitalized for several months.

Abraham Lincoln was seriously depressed his whole life, yada, yada, yada.

This doesn't mean these individuals don't suffer, don't take medication, aren't in therapy. (Well exclude Lincoln, LOL) And there are many others, intelligent, and less intelligent who don't do as well. Severity, coping mechanisms, spectrum of the disorder, proper early treatment, etc., etc., etc.

Mental illness is an equal opportunity afflication like any other illness.

Unfortunate, this is left out of the discussion and why I "type too much" and add it.

As Homeskooled said, there is no more reason to hurt each other here. I just hope to God that this site doesn't go away. I can't believe it will, new people show up here all the time. That is sad, but at least they find it.

"L'Enfer, c'est les autres." -- Jean Paul Sartre.
Peace,
D


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

This site can be a tad depressing and negative at times especially when people start attacking each other. We could do with abit more optimism thats for sure.

I dont have dp/dr anymore but i stick around to give some advice to the people that still have it. Hopefully i also give some hope to the people that still suffer from it. I was born with dp/dr and brain fog and had it 24 years now ive been dp/dr and brain fog free for a year. So if i can be cured of it anyone can.

The main thing is not to give up hope and keep looking for solutions.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

..... :arrow:


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2007)

comfortably numb said:


> I take seroquel for bipolar and im pretty worried about the risk of diabetes now. I havent gained one bit of weight on seroquel in fact i lost weight but apparently seroquel raises blood sugar levels on its own so you dont need to gain weight to develop diabetes.


Did you know that the company that makes seroquel also make the med's for diabetes :shock:

Greg


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

:shock:


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2007)




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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

jerry! jerry! jerry!

but no really, wtf is everyone talking about this rudeness and negativity.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Im still the same person said:
 

> Did you know that the company that makes seroquel also make the med's for diabetes :shock:
> 
> Greg


 Are you serious? If that's true that is scary. Those greedheads have got the market cornered.

It's like ciggarette companies making medications for cancer.


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