# What would happen if someone with DPD took a dissociative drug?



## Westcoast Ghost (Sep 8, 2013)

Has anyone here tried it? I turned down my friend's offer to take DXM with her because I don't know how it would effect my DP, being a dissociative.


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## Newky (Dec 11, 2013)

Maybe it would have a double cancel out effect and eliminate dissociation?

I kid. It increases dissociative feelings so almost certainly would make dp worse. Seems obvious no?


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## Westcoast Ghost (Sep 8, 2013)

Newky said:


> Maybe it would have a double cancel out effect and eliminate dissociation?
> 
> I kid. It increases dissociative feelings so almost certainly would make dp worse. Seems obvious no?


I suppose! But I don't know - are there different "levels" of DP? Does it vary in intensity from person to person, or from day to day? Because for me it's been pretty stable - I either have it or I don't. (I mean it hasn't been "don't" since 4 yrs ago but you know what I'm saying).


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

This is one theory behind how Iboga might improve DP symptoms; initially it's a KOR agonist and an NMDAR antagonist; both of which induce dissociative states. It's metabolite is a moderate KOR antagonist however, which would mitigate that. That aside, the theory is that agonism causes downregulation of receptors (less receptors), which would lead to long-term benefits (less KORs = less sites for endogenous ligands such as dynorphin to bind to, leads to less receptor activation, leads to less dissociation). NMDAR antagonism has debatable long-term effects, though generally speaking antagonists cause for upregulation of receptors (more receptors), leading to more binding sites for endogenous ligands (such as NMDA), leading to more receptor activation, leading to less dissociation. Well.. it's a bit vague and wishy washy, but that's more or less the idea of this controversial topic.

That said; using dissociatives when already DP/DR'd is a very bad idea. Please refrain from doing so, with the possible cautious exception of Iboga under proper conditions. Preferably speaking you'd want to take a KOR antagonist (like JDTic) or a NMDAR agonist (like GLYX-13/NRX-1074/D-cycloserine/etc.) directly, both of which lack dissociative and psychotomimetic effects.

As for your question whether DP levels can vary: yes, they most certainly can, as I've recently found out myself. Was doing reasonably stable for a long time, did some cocaine, and now I'm 10x worse.

Last, but not least, DXM is a poor choice for a dissociative. I'd go with something light, like Salvia Divinorum, if you must do this.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2014)

From what i've gathered just about every single mind altering drug, whether it's pharmaceutical, herbal, alcohol or illegal stuff, and everything else in between makes people dissociate. If you already dissociate, you'll just dissociate even more! I used to have long conversations with an old therapist about this. So the problem is.. even drugs that can help reduce anxiety will most likely make you dissociate more. This is why so many people have difficulty taking 'relaxants' (anti anxiety meds, pot etc).. b/c they make you dissociate more.

In the end of course the choice is up to the individual&#8230;. But often the quandary is&#8230;.do you want to take a pill and feel more relaxed but dissociate more, or not take a pill and feel anxious and dissociate less?? Hard choice huh? Personally, I choose no meds, b/c then over time I have been able to learn how to reduce the amount of anxiety plus reduce the amount of dissociation with the right 'tools'.

Hope you're having a lovely day also....

M


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## Nathanael.A. (Apr 16, 2013)

I have had such experience not too long ago. My dp was getting fairly consistently better, and then I came upon some some ketamine. Small amounts made me feel slightly drunk, but then larger amounts were consumed. At a point much longer ago than this occasion, when my dp was gettin worse not better, I had sensations where I felt like my consiousness was being squeezed to the size of a pin prick. Its not nice. Back to the present, after insufflating huge amounts, it felt like THE SAME EXACT EFFECT, where my consiousness was being squeezed to the size of a pin prick, altho long ago it was natural, this time it was drug induced by ketamine. Point is, it seems that somewhere along its dosage spectrum ketamine begins to mimic some part of the natural organic dissociative experience.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2014)

Zed said:


> From what i've gathered just about every single mind altering drug, whether it's pharmaceutical, herbal, alcohol or illegal stuff, and everything else in between makes people dissociate. If you already dissociate, you'll just dissociate even more! I used to have long conversations with an old therapist about this. So the problem is.. even drugs that can help reduce anxiety will most likely make you dissociate more. This is why so many people have difficulty taking 'relaxants' (anti anxiety meds, pot etc).. b/c they make you dissociate more.
> 
> In the end of course the choice is up to the individual&#8230;. But often the quandary is&#8230;.do you want to take a pill and feel more relaxed but dissociate more, or not take a pill and feel anxious and dissociate less?? Hard choice huh? Personally, I choose no meds, b/c then over time I have been able to learn how to reduce the amount of anxiety plus reduce the amount of dissociation with the right 'tools'.
> 
> Hope you're having a lovely day also....





odisa said:


> This is one theory behind how Iboga might improve DP symptoms; initially it's a KOR agonist and an NMDAR antagonist; both of which induce dissociative states. It's metabolite is a moderate KOR antagonist however, which would mitigate that. That aside, the theory is that agonism causes downregulation of receptors (less receptors), which would lead to long-term benefits (less KORs = less sites for endogenous ligands such as dynorphin to bind to, leads to less receptor activation, leads to less dissociation). NMDAR antagonism has debatable long-term effects, though generally speaking antagonists cause for upregulation of receptors (more receptors), leading to more binding sites for endogenous ligands (such as NMDA), leading to more receptor activation, leading to less dissociation. Well.. it's a bit vague and wishy washy, but that's more or less the idea of this controversial topic.
> 
> That said; using dissociatives when already DP/DR'd is a very bad idea. Please refrain from doing so, with the possible cautious exception of Iboga under proper conditions. Preferably speaking you'd want to take a KOR antagonist (like JDTic) or a NMDAR agonist (like GLYX-13/NRX-1074/D-cycloserine/etc.) directly, both of which lack dissociative and psychotomimetic effects.
> 
> ...


what about mdma?


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

I've never had a rec drug, but starting having DP/DR as a very young girl -- 4 or 5 years old.

Here is my cut and paste list of prescription and rec drugs known to cause DP/DR (from an article about minocycline Rx causing temporary DP/DR)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/468728_print%C2 (hope this link works -- on MedScape

*Medication-Associated Depersonalization Symptoms: Report of
Transient Depersonalization Symptoms Induced by Minocycline*

Philip R. Cohen, MD
South Med J 97(1):70-73, 2004. © 2004 Lippincott Williams &
Wilkins
--------------------------------
Medications Associated with Depersonalization Symptoms
*This table is at the end of the article, including a very detailed
bibliography.*

Alcohol
Antihistamines
Antipsychotics
Anxiolytics - (Anti-anxiety medications)
Benzodiazepines
Caffeine
Carbamazepine
Fluoxetine
Fluphenazine
Hallucinogens
Indomethacin
LSD
Marijuana
Meta-chlorophenylpiperazine
Minocycline (this article)
Nitrazepam
Sodium pentothal
------------------------------------------------

Also, though I have never had a rec drug in my life save alcohol in small amounts (no pot, etc.) I have had many surgeries. My earliest surgery was when I was a young girl (7 or 8?) when ether was used. Later over the years I've had surgeries with pre-op "anti-anxiety" meds and during a good number of surgeries ketamine (a dissociative) is used.

All of my surgeries were different. I will say that drugs that caused me to have "twilight sleep" caused my DP/DR to get much worse. If I have been completely knocked out howeer -- drugs such as Ketamine don't seem to have an effect on my DP/DR.

I do know it takes more to make me calm down or make me fall asleep. Most recent surgery was with *propofol* which knocked me out 100% where I had no dreams. It took me about 30 minutes for me to "come to" -- but my DP/DR were the same as when I went to sleep.

Withdrawal from many meds can cause DP/DR.

WE ARE ALL UNIQUE.

Personally you couldn't pay me to play with any rec drug including pot in a brownie. I only have wine sometimes and coffee (which can make my DP/DR worse). My question is, if you tend to dissociate, why risk taking a drug known to cause dissociation in healthy people, even children.

I'm sure some of you have seen a "funny" video of a child after a visit to the dentist. He's acting goofy, but at one point asks his father, "Am I alive?" or something like that. I wonder if he has DP. I'll look for it. His father is very comforting and laid back and the kid seems to be fine afterwards.

One drug that GAVE me horrible DP/DR when I reached a high doseage was Wellbutrin. I had sort of "an epiphany that something big was going to happen" then BAM, terrible DP/DR for hours. My doctor told me to stop the med immediately. It took me several days to feel better.

I've pasted this so many times. This question comes up over and over again.
Personally -- I wouldn't take a dissociative unless I have no option (such as surgery). I also have told every anesthesiologist that I have DP/DR. Before one surgery one anesthesiologist (I LOVE THAT MAN) said, "Don't worry. I will watch out for you when you wake up. Were you abused?" He knew NOTHING about me before he walked into pre-op to talk with me. Anesthesiologists seem to know about altered states and DP/DR.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/468728_print

What is it with me and links? You may need to c&p


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

At about 17 seconds the kid, after a dental surgical procedure says, "Is this real life?" As noted, I wonder if he is experiencing DP/DR at that moment.


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