# Hello again. Long journey and looking for advice + QEEG results



## esroh (Jan 4, 2017)

Hello,

ive been a member of this site for a few years but havent been on here in a while.

A lot of stuff has happened and also not really happened since my last updates..

Ive definitely gained new insights but im still pretty stuck and could use a fresh look at my situation.

Im gonna start from the start.

First going over my experience with dpdr and anxiety and then over what ive learned about possible causes and treatments.

*What happened:*

I gradually developed derealization around age 7-9. I just noticed that things would look "as if im looking through a camera".

It came on gradually and never left me, im 25 now.

For most of my life it used to be more of an annoyance rather than life destroying, although it still sucked ofc.

I just always felt that things arent fully really happening, not completely unreal but definitely "dreamy".

I also had regular crazy fucking obsessions/hypochondria episodes that would "seemingly" come out of nowhere.

My mind would just latch on to some random scary thing and obsess to the point of complete terror and despair until it eventually just stopped or i would be convinced by a doctor. Things i worried about: brain tumor, all types of cancer, asbestos, not being able to play guitar because my fingers arent perfectly straight, not being able to skateboard because maybe my legs arent exactly the same length, not being able to sleep because i have a rare sleep disorder, once i feel in love to an INSANE degree after seeing someone for literally 5 minutes on the street, that lasted 3 years etc. etc. etc.

Now 3,5 years ago i was doing mindfullness meditation for a few month which actually made a MASSIVE difference in my mental health. My mind was SO much more calm and present. The spacing out largly stopped but i still had the visual disconnect to an extend, but that didnt really bother me.

Also my baseline stresslevel dropped significantly, i wasnt even aware of how stressed i was before. I also had my first girlfriend at the time.

Now once again one of those episodes began, and this was the worst one yet.

It would start with a crazy obsession about "everything being inherently meaningless", then switch to "free will doesnt exist"(those thoughts were inspired by spiritual stuff i had been into at the time) and then to the most retarded one:

WHAT IF I GET DEPERSONALIZATION AS WELL? (which ive NEVER had before)

Long story short, i obsessed myself into DP, destroyed my sense of self and ended up in a psychward twice for several weeks. Complete vegetable, utter panic 24/7 for at least 1-2 years.

Now 3,5 years later, the self induced dp is not an issue anymore. Its not there unless i start obsessing again.

However: The preexisting DR has been absolutely horrendous ever since my breakdown and my stress and anxiety levels have also been severely elevated since. I pretty much feel stuck in a loop.

*Things ive "tried" over the years:*

Neurofeedback, diets, fuckton of meds (including naltrexone, lamotrigine, benzos), somatic experiencing therapy, 2 years of trauma therapy(ill go into the trauma stuff in a bit), bought glasses to correct heterophoria, had eegs and mri done, tons of self reflection, a lot of shit i probably dont remember rn

What i think might be underlying all my issues:

So most likely my dr started because of my family breaking up, the stress at the time and then the weekly switching of households, my abusive stepdad. 99% sure that this is the origin of it all.

My obsessions are probably a way for my mind to gain "control". I think that perhaps an old familiar feeling of deep fear/sadness/melancholie comes up every once in a while when im not distracted, and then i start obsessing over something to distract from it and also gain a sense of control. At leats subconsciously thats plausible.

Also, maybe a belief was created in my childhood that "the world is fundamentally unsafe/things are fundamentally wrong and fucked up". because thats kinda what it felt like when my family broke up.

Reading about trauma, i tried to process the shit out of it all and also went to therapy for 2 years specifically for that.

I can recall i think a good amount of what happened and i can feel the feelings at the time, but they arent overwhelming and i dont feel like im processing shit.

SO maybe going back and "reprocessing" isnt what needs to be done. Perhaps this is more so a matter of reprogramming this deep underlying sense of unsafety in the present. Through a lot of practice and stuff. I dont know..

Fact of the matter is: The more safe i feel, the less spaced out i am.

So the end goal is create a deep sense of safety. And im sitting here writing that while feeling this utter sense of doom and despair.

From all the "interventions" ive tried, the only one that has shown to be helpful is once again meditation.

The worst part of my derealization is the horrific zoning out/not being present with anything. Meditation seems to help with that but only when im not too anxious and if i stick with it consistently....we will see hat happens and i will keep you updated.

Also, i had a qeeg done which most notably showed high slow wave activity in the frontal region, which would fit the constant spacing out.

Maybe you guys know how to analyze this stuff...

But fundamnetally i just struggle so hard still, every day is exhausting as hell and not really being here is so painful...

I know acceptance is the first step, sometimes im better and sometimes im worse at it. But i always seem to fall back and make very little real progress...

Now with all this information, maybe you guys have some suggestions or even just encouragement for me.

Cheers,

Ben


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

First off, I have absolutely no idea what those scan images mean lol

I have come to the same conclusion many times with meditation... it works quite well for a week, life gets in the way, you lose the routine, and stop

Weird that I have started running recently and sticking to it quite well, I just run a mile. I write the time on the wall after each to see how I am improving. And I can rarely think of an excuse as it just takes ten minutes.

I need to do the same with meditation, just 10 minutes but every day. My rule with running is "never miss twice". So if I miss one day I have to go the next no excuses. Problem with meditation is I tell myself half an hour sessions are better, but I think (as with running) consistency is key. I now meditate going to sleep and sleep a LOT better. I just focus on the breath, discard thoughts, and back to the breath. Eventually I drift off

I was having serious insomnia so this has helped a tonne, and as a bare minimum I will stick to that. Try to make a chart on the wall. Another thing runners do is see how long of a "streak" they can do. Once you get up to 10days you wont want to give up the streak...


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## RunToMe (May 30, 2019)

red = overactivation areas

yellow = middle overactivated areas

green = normal activated areas

blue = underactivated areas

third row:

red = overactivated networks

blue = underactivated networks


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

QEEG is a little useless because it can only measure the activity of the upper lager of the cortex. In depression and depersonalization there are like activity in lagers of the prefrontal cortex that is beneath another lager of the prefrontal cortex. So, you only get a reading of the upper part of the cortex. The QEEG shows overactivity in very large areas of the prefrontal cortex and likely also the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. The right side of the head is also active and it is also seen in depersonalization. Locations like the right TPJ and angular gyrus is located there and likely plays a role in the derealisation aspect in depersonalization. We have similar information from brain scans. But, the question is how will you intervene with this information and where? Form the perspective of rTMS the areas found overactive might be close to 10.locations. You can not do rTMS on 10.locations but one or two. You have to find a location that is central for all the changes and you have to be able to stimulate this location. A normal rTMS coil can go 1.cm deep into the brain. A deep coil can go 2.cm deep. A location like the right VLPFC can only be partly stimulated with a normal coil. 2/3 are likely unaffected. So, doing a qEEG do not really solve much other than one can see the brain is not working as it should.

in a recent evaluation of all brain examinations done in depersonalization they excluded SPECT scans, PET and qEEG. The reason is likely that these examinations will be too old and the risk of errors and to diffuse data to high.


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## esroh (Jan 4, 2017)

Mayer-Gross said:


> QEEG is a little useless because it can only measure the activity of the upper lager of the cortex. In depression and depersonalization there are like activity in lagers of the prefrontal cortex that is beneath another lager of the prefrontal cortex. So, you only get a reading of the upper part of the cortex. The QEEG shows overactivity in very large areas of the prefrontal cortex and likely also the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. The right side of the head is also active and it is also seen in depersonalization. Locations like the right TPJ and angular gyrus is located there and likely plays a role in the derealisation aspect in depersonalization. We have similar information from brain scans. But, the question is how will you intervene with this information and where? Form the perspective of rTMS the areas found overactive might be close to 10.locations. You can not do rTMS on 10.locations but one or two. You have to find a location that is central for all the changes and you have to be able to stimulate this location. A normal rTMS coil can go 1.cm deep into the brain. A deep coil can go 2.cm deep. A location like the right VLPFC can only be partly stimulated with a normal coil. 2/3 are likely unaffected. So, doing a qEEG do not really solve much other than one can see the brain is not working as it should.
> 
> in a recent evaluation of all brain examinations done in depersonalization they excluded SPECT scans, PET and qEEG. The reason is likely that these examinations will be too old and the risk of errors and to diffuse data to high.


Ok yeah. Notice that its overactive slowwave activity, which i believe to be not typical.

So in that sense its underactive. Lots of theta which is associated with daydreaming.

Not sure if thats typical for dpdr patients. But then again i only have derealization and no numbness or dp.


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## esroh (Jan 4, 2017)

The neurofeedback guy said this is a typical add pattern here.

I dont have add i just space out a fuckton, would still fit.


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## soonwillgone (Sep 14, 2020)

Mayer-Gross said:


> QEEG is a little useless because it can only measure the activity of the upper lager of the cortex. In depression and depersonalization there are like activity in lagers of the prefrontal cortex that is beneath another lager of the prefrontal cortex. So, you only get a reading of the upper part of the cortex. The QEEG shows overactivity in very large areas of the prefrontal cortex and likely also the ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. The right side of the head is also active and it is also seen in depersonalization. Locations like the right TPJ and angular gyrus is located there and likely plays a role in the derealisation aspect in depersonalization. We have similar information from brain scans. But, the question is how will you intervene with this information and where? Form the perspective of rTMS the areas found overactive might be close to 10.locations. You can not do rTMS on 10.locations but one or two. You have to find a location that is central for all the changes and you have to be able to stimulate this location. A normal rTMS coil can go 1.cm deep into the brain. A deep coil can go 2.cm deep. A location like the right VLPFC can only be partly stimulated with a normal coil. 2/3 are likely unaffected. So, doing a qEEG do not really solve much other than one can see the brain is not working as it should.
> 
> in a recent evaluation of all brain examinations done in depersonalization they excluded SPECT scans, PET and qEEG. The reason is likely that these examinations will be too old and the risk of errors and to diffuse data to high.


Hey, i find you to be very resourceful and some what intelligent. Do you mind if we get to know each other for a bit, because i want to ask your opinion about some matter. Possibly DR/DP related. Cheers!


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

soonwillgone said:


> Hey, i find you to be very resourceful and some what intelligent. Do you mind if we get to know each other for a bit, because i want to ask your opinion about some matter. Possibly DR/DP related. Cheers!


I had my messenger open until a few months ago. I have closed it. I had some serious considerations of totally leaving this forum and have my profile deleted. The reason is being contacted by many people several times a day. In many cases using a lot of time on reply's and explanations only to be asked the same question several times again up til 3-4.times. It stops becuase I stop, not because the other part stops. One gets the feeling of using time one people that in reality do not read or understand one's reply . References in reply is often not read. A conversation can be up to 6.pages long where I felt it have been totally waste of time. So, I have had interactions with people 20-30% of the time that have been deeply frustrating I can not block them as individuals and have to close the messenger system totally.


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## soonwillgone (Sep 14, 2020)

Mayer-Gross said:


> I had my messenger open until a few months ago. I have closed it. I had some serious considerations of totally leaving this forum and have my profile deleted. The reason is being contacted by many people several times a day. In many cases using a lot of time on reply's and explanations only to be asked the same question several times again up til 3-4.times. It stops because I stop, not because the other part stops. One gets the feeling of using time one people that in reality do not read or understand one's reply . References in reply is often not read. A conversation can be up to 6.pages long where I felt it have been totally waste of time. So, I have had interactions with people 20-30% of the time that have been deeply frustrating I can not block them as individuals and have to close the messenger system totally.


Thank god you replied, i totally understand because the people here are mostly desperate for answers and solutions. I never thought there will be that many people reaching for you. But overall your facts and explanation really helps us understand certain matter about our situations, etc.


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