# Feeling stupid is unbearable



## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

Of all the things that are most painful about DP is the fact that I feel so incredibly mentally deficient. A part of me hates me for not being able to measure up to what qualifies as normal, functional behaviour.

I do wonder how much of it has been like a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by illogical thoughts. Like, my difficulty in communicating with people started when I became insecure about my voice: This one guy told me that I was speaking incorrectly and that I sounded stupid and childish. When that happened it was like I just accepted what he said immediately. I didn't get angry at him, I got angry at myself. He hurt me, I denied the pain, denied my anger, felt guilty and then attacked myself. Clearly there is something seriously wrong with me.

So anyway, this guy severely emasculated me, which is something that I had tried my hardest to protect myself against after having grown up surrounded by women who were constantly trying to emasculate me. Basically, my theory is that perhaps I only feel mentally deficient because a part of me believes that I am stupid / worthless / less than human. It might also explain why I can't feel. Like maybe a part of me believes I am unlovable and thus because of that I don't believe I deserve to feel emotions. Like I think maybe I'm not good enough to feel.

I mean, of course, these are all just my crazy theories but I do wonder about the self-belief thing. Like, how much of my problems are caused by illogical thoughts?

Something to think about.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> Of all the things that are most painful about DP is the fact that I feel so incredibly mentally deficient. A part of me hates me for not being able to measure up to what qualifies as normal, functional behaviour.
> 
> I do wonder how much of it has been like a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by illogical thoughts. Like, my difficulty in communicating with people started when I became insecure about my voice: This one guy told me that I was speaking incorrectly and that I sounded stupid and childish. When that happened it was like I just accepted what he said immediately. I didn't get angry at him, I got angry at myself. He hurt me, I denied the pain, denied my anger, felt guilty and then attacked myself. Clearly there is something seriously wrong with me.
> 
> ...


Of course you're not stupid. Even if you feel that way, your posts show otherwise.

To build self-confidence (protect yourself from 'emasculators'), you need to work on being centered and trusting yourself. You are as valid and important a person as anyone else on the planet. No one is better, but everyone is unique. You have worth and talent, even if DP, etc. trips things up.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

It's something that you definitely have in you. I can tell by reading your post. You articulated what you felt inside flawlessly. Is there something that blocks this in real life though?


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## snow storm (Aug 10, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> This one guy told me that I was speaking incorrectly and that I sounded stupid and childish. When that happened it was like I just accepted what he said immediately. I didn't get angry at him, I got angry at myself. He hurt me, I denied the pain, denied my anger, felt guilty and then attacked myself.


I struggle with this on a more general level. I devaluate my own experience, my own truth and believe that everyone else is right but me. I am aware of this pattern and I struggle to challenge it every day, and its bloody hard and painful work.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> It's something that you definitely have in you. I can tell by reading your post. You articulated what you felt inside flawlessly. Is there something that blocks this in real life though?


I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you mean. When you say, 'is there something that blocks this,' what exactly are you referring to?

It's interesting. Whenever I ask for a clarification like this, I always get scared that the other person thinks I'm being aggressive and/or condescending. It's like I have this standard in myself that says that I should know exactly what everyone means all the time. What is also implicit in this is the idea that everyone else is perfect and nobody makes mistakes. It also assumes that other people think something about me and also that I think something about them: namely that I/they both have a short temper and are driven to rage in an instant.

Hmmm, that's actually the first time I've caught that in myself and pinned it down. Feels good.

Anyway, I would love to hear back from you


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## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

You know, I feel dumb too. And I feel de-feminised, and I've had people defeminise me too. With masculine-ness all you have to do to "win" is to over power the other person...with being feminine there's not much you can do to defend yourself...it's tough being a woman. Did you notice how it is more acceptable in north american society for girls to be feminine, but not for women? Once you grow up you get treated like a guy, except a loser-ish one. Or maybe it's just me. I really am dumb though, I believe it.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

babybowrain said:


> You know, I feel dumb too. And I feel de-feminised, and I've had people defeminise me too. With masculine-ness all you have to do to "win" is to over power the other person...with being feminine there's not much you can do to defend yourself...it's tough being a woman. Did you notice how it is more acceptable in north american society for girls to be feminine, but not for women? Once you grow up you get treated like a guy, except a loser-ish one. Or maybe it's just me. I really am dumb though, I believe it.


I'm not sure if I share the same definitions of masculinity and femininity as you. I'm not saying my version is right, but I think that masculinity has aspects of both sexes in it.

I'm interested to know, what does femininity mean to you?

In regard to what you say about you being dumb, what is your evidence for it? I have seen evidence that shows that some people learn in different ways that schools simply don't cater to. There's a good chance that you're one of those people.

The interesting thing about intelligence is that people will often become what they are labelled as. If you had a mother who painted a picture of women to you as unintelligent and made you identify with that image, then chances are you would end up believing that is what you were. The fact is, we limit ourselves by what we believe we are capable of.

Whatever you believe about yourself will be so: It will be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also, I want to say that it may well be more difficult for women in general (which I really do sympathise with), but some men will still get it worse than some women (and vice versa).


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

j4mtj said:


> Never_giving_up, I was reading about core beliefs and it said that what someone says about you only hurts if you really believe deep down that it is true. So when that guy called you stupid, it triggered a lot of shit. The point is, where did feeling stupid come from in the first place, who made you believe this originally? And who the hell were they to decide you were stupid?


Thanks for your post. I think there were a number of factors that have led to me believing this about myself. For one, my parents who were not intelligent people, and were not at all interested in nurturing my intelligence. In fact, my mother believed very strongly that she was stupid. She acted this out on me and my siblings by constantly calling as "stupid". Just to say, I think this is absolutely wicked behaviour. I believe children have an incredible amount of potential. If you label a child whatever, they will believe it because they are helpless to the parent's/carer's power. It's such a tragedy but it happens every day in so so so many homes.

I'm glad you brought up the idea of core beliefs actually. It's something I learned in CBT a few years ago. I think your assessment of what happened is spot on. I really think you hit the nail on the head. When that guy called me stupid and childish it triggered so much stuff that I barely became conscious of what was going on. Basically all my psychological defences kicked in and I pretty much went into autopilot. At the time I really beat myself up for putting myself in that situation but the reality is that my brain was wired for that exact kind of thing to happen. If it hadn't happened then, then it would have very likely happened at another time.


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## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

Yes I agree men have it pretty bad, too. I actually did to well in school for a long time, but I'm a loser in "real life". Oh well. I can't even make any good online friends! I'm not sure what's wrong with me. I guess I need some one two three follow the guide lines steps like on a test to make a friend








My definition of femininity I'm not even sure what it is...but, I can tell people don't think I'm too feminine as I don't have a boyfriend and guys aren't too in awe with me. Oh well. I mostly get bullied around by them...or invited to go to the army with them or do drugs with em (I don't)! Ha.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

never_giving_up said:


> I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you mean. When you say, 'is there something that blocks this,' what exactly are you referring to?
> 
> It's interesting. Whenever I ask for a clarification like this, I always get scared that the other person thinks I'm being aggressive and/or condescending. It's like I have this standard in myself that says that I should know exactly what everyone means all the time. What is also implicit in this is the idea that everyone else is perfect and nobody makes mistakes. It also assumes that other people think something about me and also that I think something about them: namely that I/they both have a short temper and are driven to rage in an instant.
> 
> ...


I noticed that in your post you were able to articulate well how you felt and to me you sounded smart. So it made me wonder if in real life things are different.

Personally when I try to assert myself in real life, a wall comes up and I watch myself go through the motions of pleasing people instead of saying and acting how I really feel. It made me wonder if this happens to you. That is what I meant by "is there something that blocks this?"

Thank you for asking me to clarify what I meant, as I can see how what I wrote could have come off as confusing.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I noticed that in your post you were able to articulate well how you felt and to me you sounded smart. So it made me wonder if in real life things are different.
> 
> Personally when I try to assert myself in real life, a wall comes up and I watch myself go through the motions of pleasing people instead of saying and acting how I really feel. It made me wonder if this happens to you. That is what I meant by "is there something that blocks this?"
> 
> Thank you for asking me to clarify what I meant, as I can see how what I wrote could have come off as confusing.


Ahh thank you for your clarification









Yes, I get this exactly. Typing on the internet I feel much more at ease and myself. As soon I go into a "real-life" interaction, I become a mess!

The anxiety that gets triggered just being around people is unbelievable! It's almost like there's a part of me that thinks they're just randomly going to physically attack me or something.

And yes, I feel very false indeed. Always coming from a place of fear, constantly seeking approval, constantly denying my feelings, never truly expressing myself.

The word "block" is a very apt one indeed.


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## baking_pineapple (Apr 27, 2011)

Right there with you brother. It's funny because I've always esteemed my ability to articulate myself intelligently and persuasively, but since I began to monitor everything I said in fear that I would say the wrong thing and embarass myself, I've felt like this inept, deficient fool who does not deserve respect or consideration due to his radical inability to assert a personality into the world. I like the word "emasculate", that captures the experience precisely... kinda feels like we lost our rights to be a human being, including the right to feel and express ourselves freely to other people. I hate this. Sometimes I feel better off being dead, but then I remind myself that my mind is just playing tricks on me and that I do not have to be what my evolutionary programming wants me to be. It's hard to explain to other people what this is like, how you can feel like such a survivor even though there is nothing recognizably wrong with you (until you speak and reveal your "deficiencies" that is).

People tell me that I'm always holding back, but I feel like I always have to consciouslly fight my way over whatever this paralyzing blockage is that's holding me back. I hate this shit. We don't deserve to feel this dead. Sometimes I want to hurt somebody just so I can relate to them, but then I realize that this urge too is another outmoded evolutioanry response to feeling like a lesser than male with in a competitive status hiearchy. God, it's all so stupid.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

baking_pineapple said:


> Right there with you brother. It's funny because I've always esteemed my ability to articulate myself intelligently and persuasively, but since I began to monitor everything I said in fear that I would say the wrong thing and embarass myself, I've felt like this inept, deficient fool who does not deserve respect or consideration due to his radical inability to assert a personality into the world. I like the word "emasculate", that captures the experience precisely... kinda feels like we lost our rights to be a human being, including the right to feel and express ourselves freely to other people. I hate this. Sometimes I feel better off being dead, but then I remind myself that my mind is just playing tricks on me and that I do not have to be what my evolutionary programming wants me to be. It's hard to explain to other people what this is like, how you can feel like such a survivor even though there is nothing recognizably wrong with you (until you speak and reveal your "deficiencies" that is).
> 
> People tell me that I'm always holding back, but I feel like I always have to consciouslly fight my way over whatever this paralyzing blockage is that's holding me back. I hate this shit. We don't deserve to feel this dead. Sometimes I want to hurt somebody just so I can relate to them, but then I realize that this urge too is another outmoded evolutioanry response to feeling like a lesser than male with in a competitive status hiearchy. God, it's all so stupid.


Thank you for your post! I'm definitely with you on the majority of what you've written.

I'm a little confused though when you talk about "evolutionary programming." Like when you say, 'I remind myself that my mind is just playing tricks on me and that I do not have to be what my evolutionary programming wants me to be.' What exactly do you mean by this?

Also this: 'Sometimes I want to hurt somebody just so I can relate to them, but then I realize that this urge too is another outmoded evolutioanry response to feeling like a lesser than male with in a competitive status hierarchy.'

I definitely can relate to the feeling of utter rage. I don't believe it's just an evolutionary thing though. I think the emotional problems I experience in this regard are caused by environmental factors, not genetic ones. Of course I'm open to being corrected.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

never_giving_up said:


> Ahh thank you for your clarification
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am like a magnet that attracts the kind of person who just wants to leach energy out of someone else. You know that person who will start a monologue conversation and talk a persons ear off for an hour without the other person even given a chance to speak? I am that guy 10 times out of 10 who is on the receiving end. I'm open to it on some level and don't know how to assert myself and create boundaries. This can make being in social settings a living nightmare.

This came up today in my session today with my naturopath doctor. We did some role playing to help me get a feel how to assert myself. I'm going to start with my family. Any time they try to manipulate me I'm going to immediately speak up for myself and say how I feel. I believe what I need to do is act right away when I sense it happening because if I give the manipulator even a second of my time I am lured into pleasing them and it becomes hard to break out once lured in.

I am certain that taking ones 'power' back is very important in life, may even cure DP.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you mean. When you say, 'is there something that blocks this,' what exactly are you referring to?
> 
> It's interesting. Whenever I ask for a clarification like this, I always get scared that the other person thinks I'm being aggressive and/or condescending. It's like I have this standard in myself that says that I should know exactly what everyone means all the time. What is also implicit in this is the idea that everyone else is perfect and nobody makes mistakes. It also assumes that other people think something about me and also that I think something about them: namely that I/they both have a short temper and are driven to rage in an instant.
> 
> ...


*I always get scared that the other person thinks&#8230;*

Now take this thought a little further:

You have lived for years with people thinking good, people thinking bad, and people not thinking at all about you - And here you are still alive.

To be 'centered' and at peace, what matters is how YOU view you. Work on this. Remember people are largely thinking about themselves. And beyond simple social interactions, it doesn't matter what they think. You have the power within to be a mighty pillar of strength &#8230; all you need is practice.


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## baking_pineapple (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm sorry for sounding so pretentious and stupid... I've been reading a book bout evolution and now I try to see everything through that lens... all I was trying to say bout the whole evolution thing was that I feel like my mind was designed to function in a very different world than the one we are in now.... and because of this I feel that my mind is responding to things that would have made sense 10,000 years ago but now manifest themselves as irrational anxiety and fear over everyday life things... and bout the rage, I said this b/c I've felt I've been cheated out of so many things people automatically take for granted... but considering this rage from the perspective of evolution makes me think of it as an emotional driving force useful for challenging more dominant males for rights over resources and reproductive opportunities... but I agree this perspective is very far removed from the actual experience of it


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## scaredofdpdhelp (Jul 17, 2013)

I've felt like this inept, deficient fool who does not deserve respect or consideration due to his radical inability to assert a personality into the world.

I think that was a pretty rude comment on your part because you with this as me with the same, look like idiots in front of normal people when we are really anxious, so that's not a proper thing to say of people in general. Cause that is what we are humans and it's not cool to judge on anyone cause you never Know who is judging you because of this. He dicho.


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## scaredofdpdhelp (Jul 17, 2013)

My post in response to baking pineapple lol.


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## chelsy010 (Oct 29, 2012)

never_giving_up said:


> Of all the things that are most painful about DP is the fact that I feel so incredibly mentally deficient. A part of me hates me for not being able to measure up to what qualifies as normal, functional behaviour.
> 
> I do wonder how much of it has been like a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by illogical thoughts. Like, my difficulty in communicating with people started when I became insecure about my voice: This one guy told me that I was speaking incorrectly and that I sounded stupid and childish. When that happened it was like I just accepted what he said immediately. I didn't get angry at him, I got angry at myself. He hurt me, I denied the pain, denied my anger, felt guilty and then attacked myself. Clearly there is something seriously wrong with me.
> 
> ...


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## chelsy010 (Oct 29, 2012)

Interesting you should say that because I notice the first change in me when I was living with some new people and they were treating me like I was nothing and then I felt like I was nothing or I should be nothing. That's when I sad to myself, Houston we have a problem. Then it was down hill from there. I'm doing way better now, but my goodness it was like hell on earth.


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