# Seriously afraid that this prodromal schizophrenia-- need reassurance



## redcurlyrose (May 21, 2012)

Hello, I'm sorry this is so long

I have had derealization since December 2011 due to smoking an ungodly amount of pot my first (and only) time trying it and subsequently "freaking out" for hours on end.

That first 'episode' of DP/DR lasted around a month, followed by a second episode in April of the following year, also lasting 1 month. I always overcome these episodes by staying busy and keeping my mind off of it.

I then went 9 months without derealization at all. In January of 2013 I had another month-long episode. My latest episode ended 9 days ago and started 5 weeks prior. It was, by far, the worst episode of derealization I've ever had-- I'm talking waking with panic attacks every other night and feeling like I was completely losing my mind... I believe this episode was worse than the others for a few reasons: it was triggered by the stress of a stalker on my campus who threatened to violently kill me and my husband (he was expelled but still lived in the city, which scared the crap out of me and triggered my anxiety). Also, I am moving to a foreign country in one month for a job because I just graduated from college, which also has increased my anxiety. Lastly, my derealization is always much worse during the summertime, since I am cooped up at home all day in a small town and my husband has been visiting his ailing mother elsewhere. Isolation always makes my DP/DR worse -- I love socializing and staying busy.

The problem is this: ever since this newest episode cleared up, I have been experiencing hypnogogic hallucinations, which are terrifying my "what if?" oriented mind and bringing back the derealization some. I have experienced sleep paralysis off and on since childhood, but this is completely different. I wake up in the middle of the night because I am hot/uncomfortable/hear a noise (common for me as a light sleeper), and have experienced the following:

1) The first time, my brain kind of felt like it was vibrating and I heard my dad (as though he was in the room with me) saying: "wake up! don't let those idiots in!" I realized immediately that this wasn't real, but it got my heart pounding. It subsided when I sat up. I was very frightened since I heard this with my eyes open.

2) The second time, my mom accidentally awakened me by coming home as I was drifting off to sleep (real), and I heard my husband whisper my name in my ear as I woke up (not real). Again, this scared me and got my heart pounding.

3) The third time, I woke up half-awake in the night and thought I saw the outline of a raccoon scampering across my floor, but then blinked again and nothing was there

4) Last night, I woke up, again half-awake, and saw kind of... a shape like a woman's dress in my room.

All of these occurrences lasted less than 2 seconds, and I immediately knew they were not real. These all have occurred within the last 8 days. The first episode happened after not sleeping for 3 nights straight while I had plenty of rest prior to the other 3 times. I have no other symptoms of prodromal schizophrenia other than the off-and-on derealization and these hypnogogic hallucinations. I am very motivated and ambitious, and I love being around people. I have no paranoid/suspicious thoughts and I don't think the TV is talking to me or anything. Also, I love life very much; the only thing I don't like is when I go into my 'fogs' a couple of times per year-- always triggered by something obvious.

Do you think this could be leading to schizophrenia? I cannot see a doctor to get an opinion because I am moving to another country soon, and there will be no possibility to get help over there. I can definitely live with the intermittent derealization since I am learning how to manage that, but these new symptoms are freaking me out and I would like some assurance that others are experiencing the same, that it is normal, or something like that, if you believe it. However, if you think I'm losing it, please tell me... I can quit my job, but I really would not like to since I have been dreaming of working in Japan since I was a little girl. My husband believes this will all clear up once he and I are together again in Japan and I am staying busy and hanging out with my coworkers and friends/working everyday.

I am 23 now, if that makes a difference. I think I am just a worry wart-- at least I am hoping.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2013)

No ones ever developed schizophrenia from DP/DR, so don't worry about it.

The common thread in all of those incidents is half awake and at night. People see things in the dark all of the time, it's natural, and being half-asleep isn't going to help that much. As for number 2, that happens to everyone from time to time; it's just on of those little mysteries in the world.

Your just anxious and stressed out, so your making a lot more of these events then you should.


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## redcurlyrose (May 21, 2012)

Thank you so much for the replies. I think I frequently overanalyze things. Also, it completely did not help that I majored in neuroscience in college! All I heard about my senior year were studies of abnormal psychological manifestations and their neurological correlates.

I just get scared about schizophrenia because the prodromal period can be very ambiguous... I know that more than simple hypnogogic hallucinations are usually involved at first, but I always think "what if I'm the exception or the minority case?" See, here I go again. Though, I know the over-thinking is normal for us DP/DR folk.

I also always fixate on a new symptom. "Where did this come from, if not prodromal schizophrenia?" That is what I wonder. And yes, I always leap to the worst conclusions first-- it's part of my anxiety. My mother is a (very paranoid) doctor and always convinced me I was dying growing up (she even said I had leukemia when I was 3...) I think that's where I get this from. However, I am going to try not to worry too much in the meantime, since I have no other worrisome symptoms such as suspiciousness, paranoia, disorganized speech, social withdrawal, avolition, or anything else to do with what I "think" I have. Of course, my mom is trying to convince me that I must have multiple sclerosis, despite four MRIs showing no white matter lesions... I think I will feel better when I get out of this house, haha. My husband, in stark contrast to my mother, is waaaay laid back.

I think I've just been undergoing a ton of stress.

EDIT: If anyone else has any other reassuring words, that would be so much appreciated (if you believe those words). I get in these funks of fixations where I worry, worry, worry and can't stop dwelling. Hearing others reassure me will help. My biggest worry is that I will start hallucinating during the daytime or have some major hallucination that is unlike these tiny mid-sleep ones.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2013)

When some one has schizophrenia they aren't lucid and don't realize, the fact that you think you have schizophrenia proves you dont, ahaha sounds crazy, i was paranoid i had schizophrenia for 2 moths, i also have DR paranóia common symptom, good luck


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

Goodness lady, those two life stressors you mention are enough to give anyone DR!

Hypnagogic hallucinations, while awful, are QUITE common and usually DO NOT indicate any other serious problems. For what it's worth, I have had hypnagogic hallucinations nearly my whole life, DR on and off for my whole adult life-- I am almost 30 & haven't had a psychotic break *yet* (I fear I am tempting the fates!)

Your mom's interventions sound quite toxic. If there is any way you can assert yourself to her & let her know she is harming rather than helping and that you do not need her opinions I think it would improve your mental health a lot. I know from experience having over-protective and/or hypochondriacal parents can lead to an adulthood of anxiety and insecurity.

Is there any way you can be with your husband? Do you have friends or relatives where you live, or is there some activity or group you can join in the meantime? Isolation is a bitch.

No, I do not think you are in schizophrenia prodrome, but I see no reason why you shouldn't see a psychologist if your symptoms are troubling you so much. You may not be able to continue treatment, but even a single consultation might be worth your peace of mind. Anyway, I would get counseling just for the stalking incident. God knows that could cause all kinds of anxiety.


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## redcurlyrose (May 21, 2012)

brujita_linda said:


> Goodness lady, those two life stressors you mention are enough to give anyone DR!
> 
> Hypnagogic hallucinations, while awful, are QUITE common and usually DO NOT indicate any other serious problems. For what it's worth, I have had hypnagogic hallucinations nearly my whole life, DR on and off for my whole adult life-- I am almost 30 & haven't had a psychotic break *yet* (I fear I am tempting the fates!)
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your post. You have no idea how much it helps to ease my mind T.T especially considering that you too experience these hypnogogic hallucinations. You are so kind to reply to me!

Yes, my mother really is toxic with her alarmist nature... Especially ever since she stopped practicing due to permanent physical disability, she always has this need to "take care of" someone. She talks about medicine and illness 24/7 without a care for anyone's feelings. I've told her how it's affecting me, to which she always replies that I can 'ignore her at the cost of my life," or she begins to yell that I don't take her seriously as a doctor and that I'm an ingrate. My dad, on the other hand, has always been very abusive since I was a small child. I think the mixture of the two of them made me sort of have a disposition for DR -- I used to tell myself to 'pretend it wasn't happening' and to try to zone out into another state of mind when he'd yell at me as a kid. Yeah, that wasn't healthy for me lol. But, I'm actually a very normal person as an adult aside from the DR, and I think those harmful coping strategies are the only way I was able to tune out what was going on most of the time and therefore turn out okay... Aside from this anxiety stuff, ugh. Anyway, sorry for pouring my whole life story on you. This forum makes me feel less alone with my DR and I get carried away.

I don't want to leave this house for the next month because my little sister needs me for comfort as much as I can be here for her. Also, my mom would feel pretty awful if I left. I will figure something out, though, if this gets worse. Thank you for the suggestions!

I wish you well on your own journey and again thank you for your words.

Also, to Pregal: thank you for the reassurance, though some people do have 'insight' (AKA they know they're ill) in the initial stages as they slip into schizo, though it is relatively rare. I will try to focus on that rarity instead of thinking it could be my own case.

EDIT: I forgot to mention this: I fear that because DP/DR are relatively unknown (we barely touched on them in my advanced psych and neuro classes, for instance, and there was tons of false info imo), that if I go to a psychologist they will think I really am nuts and freak me out more because they have never really learned/heard about DR. Heck, they might be like "you need to be committed NOW" if they've never heard of DR symptoms. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to try a psychologist-- I'm in a small town and there's probably no DR specialist here.


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

> EDIT: I forgot to mention this: I fear that because DP/DR are relatively unknown (we barely touched on them in my advanced psych and neuro classes, for instance, and there was tons of false info imo), that if I go to a psychologist they will think I really am nuts and freak me out more because they have never really learned/heard about DR. Heck, they might be like "you need to be committed NOW" if they've never heard of DR symptoms. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to try a psychologist-- I'm in a small town and there's probably no DR specialist here.


I definitely used to fear involuntary commitment or some other such atrocity if I admitted my DR symptoms to anyone, but it was pretty irrational. IMO you are lucid, self-aware, don't sound self-harming, or have any symptoms that would warrant that reaction. Opening up to professionals about my mental illness symptoms (depression, panic disorder, DR, fears about psychosis) has been a huge relief for me, but I know not everyone is lucky to have positive experiences with counseling and psychiatry.

Aside from the DR, it probably wouldn't hurt to find someone you can start talking to about your childhood & some of the other scary things you've been through, even if it is just a support group or something. You might be coping well, but stress is one of those things that tends to accumulate. Not that you will have a breakdown or a psychotic break, but the sooner you can start processing it all, the better it will be for your health overall. (I'm speaking as someone who started therapy probably 15 years later than I should have after growing up in a household with a severely depressed & psychotic dad who eventually committed suicide when I was 19.)



> she always replies that I can 'ignore her at the cost of my life,"


This is so awful. I'm sorry you have to deal with that & sorry that your mom is dealing with her disability by abusing others.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2013)

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/blog/167-how-emotional-abuse-causes-dp-and-how-you-can-recover/

I recommend reading this blog. This individual recovered from DP/DR by fixing what abusive parenting broke.


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

> the fact that you think you have schizophrenia proves you dont,


Not to discourage anyone who fears psychosis, but...yeah, I hear this a lot. It's kind of become conventional wisdom, but I just don't think it is universally true. For example, my dad had elaborate paranoid delusions of psychosis, but to talk to him, he seemed perfectly intelligent, rational & lucid. I think for some people, it's like two realities that you kind of hold simultaneously---the consensual reality and the psychotic reality---with the psychosis almost forming kind of an overlay over the other, like if you can imagine a overhead projector transparency with things drawn on it. I'm speculating, but I'm guessing that's probably a lot what was like for him & for other "psychotics." In some ways that may be the crux of the suffering of the disease---that partial insight, awareness that you're different & the tension between the two systems of reality.


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## redcurlyrose (May 21, 2012)

brujita_linda said:


> Not to discourage anyone who fears psychosis, but...yeah, I hear this a lot. It's kind of become conventional wisdom, but I just don't think it is universally true. For example, my dad had elaborate paranoid delusions of psychosis, but to talk to him, he seemed perfectly intelligent, rational & lucid. I think for some people, it's like two realities that you kind of hold simultaneously---the consensual reality and the psychotic reality---with the psychosis almost forming kind of an overlay over the other, like if you can imagine a overhead projector transparency with things drawn on it. I'm speculating, but I'm guessing that's probably a lot what was like for him & for other "psychotics." In some ways that may be the crux of the suffering of the disease---that partial insight, awareness that you're different & the tension between the two systems of reality.


With that being said, do you still think I probably am not in the prodromal stage of schizophrenia? I definitely do not have delusions. I'm so sorry to hear that your dad went through that.... God, and I am especially sorry about the nature of his passing. That must have been so incredibly hard on you. 

My husband is a great listener when I need to talk about stuff. Thank you for the advice-- maybe I will look into talking to someone else before I leave.


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

I knew I shouldn't have gotten into all that on this thread! That was not intended to make you feel worse  

It's impossible for me to say since I am not a professional, but it just sounds very unlikely in your case. Even though my dad was not obviously crazy, there was a marked decline in his functioning. It seemed to me like one day he was my best friend, and the next he was a very, very sad stranger. If you are in a schizophrenia prodrome, it's likely there are going to be behavioral things others notice. I think the best thing you can do for yourself is stop googling and get your mind off of it as much as you can.


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

What I'm saying is, although my dad was smart and could converse normally, he was still clearly ill & low-functioning, even if it wasn't apparent that he suffered delusions.


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

He thought the feds were after him. He worked out some elaborate system involving the 3rd Reich & the occult whereby he could predict probable days of his doom (which he marked on the family calendar with skulls and crossbones). He had this whole thing about the number 101 which I never understood. This was all kind of a family in-joke, but it must have been very scary and real for him. Now that I think of it, I probably normalized a lot of pretty crazy shit as a coping mechanism when I was growing up.

It's also worth noting that my dad's dad was also schizophrenic, and my dad also contributed to his vulnerability by experimenting with hallucinogens & studying eastern philosophy that IMO he didn't have the emotional maturity/spiritual grounding to handle.

You seem about 10000x saner than him.


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## redcurlyrose (May 21, 2012)

brujita_linda said:


> He thought the feds were after him. He worked out some elaborate system involving the 3rd Reich & the occult whereby he could predict probable days of his doom (which he marked on the family calendar with skulls and crossbones). He had this whole thing about the number 101 which I never understood. This was all kind of a family in-joke, but it must have been very scary and real for him. Now that I think of it, I probably normalized a lot of pretty crazy shit as a coping mechanism when I was growing up.
> 
> It's also worth noting that my dad's dad was also schizophrenic, and my dad also contributed to his vulnerability by experimenting with hallucinogens & studying eastern philosophy that IMO he didn't have the emotional maturity/spiritual grounding to handle.
> 
> You seem about 10000x saner than him.


You are right-- I need to get off google. Thank you for the reassurance and for all of your incredibly sweet posts!

That must have been so sad for him to be your best friend one day and another person the next  I can see how that would really affect a kid's attachment style, not to mention their whole world. I'm very sorry that you went through that. I bet he was a swell guy when he was well-- It's very sad that he, too, had to go through the hell of the other side... I can't imagine the feeling of a delusion taking over reality 

My grandfather also had schizophrenia, which was triggered by the war. He came back a completely different person and was extremely paranoid about everyone around him to the point of shooting a woman in the face because he thought she was the enemy. My grandma suspected something was wrong when he sent her someone's teeth he'd cut out during combat in the mail. He committed suicide in an institution for mental health. I feel so bad for him-- I never even knew him. But, he is one of the reasons why I jump to thinking "it's schizophrenia" first, before thinking "these are just minor hypnogogic hallucinations because you have been really stressed." It terrifies me to think of what he went through, and how there might be a gene in me ready to be triggered into the same sort of state. By the way-- you should rest assured that you will not develop schizophrenia; you are past the typical onset age range for females. Not that you were worrying about it anyway. But, I don't think you are tempting the fates 

Again, thank you. You are really a wonderful person.


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## brujita_linda (Jun 12, 2011)

> That must have been so sad for him to be your best friend one day and another person the next  I can see how that would really affect a kid's attachment style, not to mention their whole world. I'm very sorry that you went through that. I bet he was a swell guy when he was well-- It's very sad that he, too, had to go through the hell of the other side... I can't imagine the feeling of a delusion taking over reality


Thanks very much. Yeah, it definitely gave me some serious insecurity & inclined me to be somewhat detached and self-guarding with intimate relationships. He was one of the funniest, smartest people I know, and I'm lucky we were able to have some really good talks about music and books and art even when he was pretty sick. As much as it sucks, it is what it is, and I wouldn't really want to change it because it's part of who I am.



> My grandfather also had schizophrenia, which was triggered by the war. He came back a completely different person and was extremely paranoid about everyone around him to the point of shooting a woman in the face because he thought she was the enemy. My grandma suspected something was wrong when he sent her someone's teeth he'd cut out during combat in the mail. He committed suicide in an institution for mental health. I feel so bad for him-- I never even knew him. But, he is one of the reasons why I jump to thinking "it's schizophrenia" first, before thinking "these are just minor hypnogogic hallucinations because you have been really stressed." It terrifies me to think of what he went through, and how there might be a gene in me ready to be triggered into the same sort of state.


That is really sad & eerily familiar. My grandfather was in the Navy in the Korean War & I'm pretty sure his break had to do with those experiences. I want to ask my Grandma about it, but I also don't want to dredge up painful memories for her. Having to go through that with her first husband, and then losing her only son, my dad... My other grandfather landed on Normandy on D-Day & was psychologically fine. It's so weird and random how people process things.

I know what you mean about feeling genetically doomed, but genes aren't destiny. There are so many factors. Besides, if you have a sibling or parent with schizophrenia, your chance of developing schizophrenia is still only 10% (as opposed to 1% for the general population)---hardly inevitable. And I don't want to minimize the illness, but people DO have full, meaningful lives in spite of the illness. I have a very sweet friend with schizophrenia who holds a job, plays in several bands & fathers three amazing children & is one of the kindness spirits I know. BUT NEITHER OF US WILL PROBABLY DEVELOP IT. We are just overly anxious.


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## redcurlyrose (May 21, 2012)

brujita_linda said:


> Thanks very much. Yeah, it definitely gave me some serious insecurity & inclined me to be somewhat detached and self-guarding with intimate relationships. He was one of the funniest, smartest people I know, and I'm lucky we were able to have some really good talks about music and books and art even when he was pretty sick. As much as it sucks, it is what it is, and I wouldn't really want to change it because it's part of who I am.
> 
> That is really sad & eerily familiar. My grandfather was in the Navy in the Korean War & I'm pretty sure his break had to do with those experiences. I want to ask my Grandma about it, but I also don't want to dredge up painful memories for her. Having to go through that with her first husband, and then losing her only son, my dad... My other grandfather landed on Normandy on D-Day & was psychologically fine. It's so weird and random how people process things.
> 
> I know what you mean about feeling genetically doomed, but genes aren't destiny. There are so many factors. Besides, if you have a sibling or parent with schizophrenia, your chance of developing schizophrenia is still only 10% (as opposed to 1% for the general population)---hardly inevitable. And I don't want to minimize the illness, but people DO have full, meaningful lives in spite of the illness. I have a very sweet friend with schizophrenia who holds a job, plays in several bands & fathers three amazing children & is one of the kindness spirits I know. BUT NEITHER OF US WILL PROBABLY DEVELOP IT. We are just overly anxious.


I could not agree with you more. Thank you for uplifting me! I'm going to get off this site now and avoid google-- I think that will help. Best wishes for you!!!


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