# Why and how did we get here?



## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Where did science come from?


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

And science says we got here by the big bang?

Where did the big bang come from?


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

So you dont know where the big bang came from...

I dont know where God came from...

Sound about even?

Since the three major world religions- Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism make up over half of the world's population, I'd say so.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Noone knows, there are hypothesises at this stage....
> How does this support your God any more than the Spaghetti Monster being the creator of all?
> Logical fallacy upon fallacy =\
> 
> ...


The big bang is the theory that the universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day.

It isnt fact that it happened. It's theory. And Im not saying my post supported God any more than your posts supports evolution. Im saying that neither one of us can prove that what we believe spawned the universe is fact.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Theory in science is closest you come to FACTS.
> When all observation, experiments and predictions shows your "theory" is true, it's pretty much a fact.
> Unless you are the solipist and everything you see, hear, taste, smell, touch are just makings of your mind....then my man, you are God and creates me now just cuz ur bored.... But then again, if that's the case you believe in, all your senses are imagination and can't be trusted...
> Evolution is also P R O V E N, so is the age of the Earth and the Universe.
> ...


A theory must be based on observed facts. Who observed the big bang? Nobody.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

My birth was observed by someone however. I have witnessed babies being birthed. Therefore, birthing exists. NOBODY has witnessed the big bang.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Either you're stumped or too tired to come up with something better than that. Good Game.


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## guitarman (Dec 11, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Noone knows, there are hypothesises at this stage....


Ooops. I guess you've run out of scientific evidence and will now have to rely on faith like us Christians. 



> sucks having to argue with people with an IQ that are low even for downsyndrome patients, it's like you can tell them 1+1=2 and they'll still say uh-uh, since I can pronounce "equals 55" 2 is no more right than 55. =\


[/quote]

I am a Christian and often have these conversations with very good friend of mine who is atheist. I'm not sure what his IQ is. But I do know that he treats me and my beliefs with respect. Yes I know that he views my beliefs as fictional fantasyand I'm sure somewhere he thinks I'm missing the point somewhere. 
If you truly have a point to make and maybe a message to crusade you will never get it across using the methods you have so far. I remember a saying that a Christian school teacher I had in grade 5 used to say. Strong language is a weak minded persons way of communicating their message. When you treat people like this all it shows is that you have run out of intelligent ways of communicating and you are resorting to the lowest base.


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

Amen. Excuse the pun.


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## guitarman (Dec 11, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Wow, your so stupid my brain hurts now, thanks a lot.
> It's like hard to respond to, it's like so stupid and wrong it's not even wrong, you must develope a new sort of word for that sort of incoherence.
> 
> Ok listen: you dn't observe the wall behind you, it doesn't exist, you live in the matrix, you are THE Solipsist, the only person in existence and DPDR is your awakening to this fact, everything is fake....Because....... you never observed your own birth, it never happend, you just came into existence! SCARY! and no, your belief that your mom witnessed it doesn't prove shit, cuz you didn't see through her eyes, so it's not proven. Sorry the truth is told, you are THE ONE NEO, alone in existence with us (the imaginary friends who are just images in your head)...


Not one soul through history observed the big bang. 
People have seen the wall behind me. And at one time or another I have seen it. My parents witnessed my birth and I believe them. Witness also observed the birth, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And I believe them.
Now don't assume that I don't believe there was some version of a big bang in the beginning of time. I just happen to know the architect.


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## drawynitsed (Dec 14, 2008)

Conjurus, I think I love you. I don't know you, but you're awesome.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

I love Jesse too, he is awesome!


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Run out of scientific evidence, after we have proved the universe is around 15 billion years old , yea, because THAT is proven beyond ANY DOUBT.
> so we have killed christianity.
> 
> ?
> What is awesome about him? Every argument he has put forth have I put to death...


You havnt killed or disproven anything though. Whats delusional is you thinking that you have when there is EVIDENCE throughout the world...christians somewhere at this moment going to church, people praying.......that prooves you havnt killed it and never will and there is nothing, absolutly sweet F*ck all, that you can do about that .


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

They allways put adds up about what we,ve been talking about, its like they watch us, or wait!......... .....NO it cant be can it!!!!!!!!! Its jesus- hes heard us all and has come to save us!.and hes just told me hes going spank Vinci with a cucifix...  ....JOKING.....Well....this place........... :roll:


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Spirit said:


> They allways put adds up about what we,ve been talking about, its like they watch us, or wait!......... .....NO it cant be can it!!!!!!!!! Its jesus- hes heard us all and has come to save us!.and hes just told me hes going spank Vinci with a cucifix...  ....JOKING.....Well....this place........... :roll:


rofl.

haha i love you guys too. Lynsey is very wise and always brings great insight to about any topic.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> Spirit said:
> 
> 
> > They allways put adds up about what we,ve been talking about, its like they watch us, or wait!......... .....NO it cant be can it!!!!!!!!! Its jesus- hes heard us all and has come to save us!.and hes just told me hes going spank Vinci with a cucifix...  ....JOKING.....Well....this place........... :roll:
> ...


P.S.- I see a cookie on the plate next to me... it must have evolved over billions of years.. or wait maybe it just randomly exploded into existence from nothing.... or maybe someone made it?

By the way VinCi- there are Christians who acknowledge the universe is billions of years old. Im one of them. It's called the gap theory.

p.p.s.- dang i dont know why my browser keeps double posting... this post should have been combined with the previous.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

[Content deleted due to double-post]


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> P.S.- I see a cookie on the plate next to me... it must have evolved over billions of years.. or wait maybe it just randomly exploded into existence from nothing.... or maybe someone made it?


Hmmm all quite interesting valid theories, A cookie you say? Well I never did hear of anything like it! What does the EVIDENCE suggest? Now come on! lets all be RATIONAL about this one .

_Thanks jesse  _


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

Terri said:


> Just before when copeful was online this add was at the top


ROFLMFAO!! What a coincidence, maybe jesus is trying to tell him something...


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Let's say that the universe began with a singularity (the "Big Bang"). This theory isn't proven, but radiological evidence suggests it's the most likely scenario (A Brief History of Time, Stephen Hawking). It's hard to talk about events before this singularity, since time would not have existed. At the moment of this singularity, however, we could say that all matter, anti-matter, and all energy came into existence. Extreme temperatures, quarks, fundamental forces, blah blah blah. The universe in which we exist (or seem to) is a strange place, but it had a beginning. Now, either it was created by God or it wasn't, but either way, it was created. So, for the sake of argument, let's call whatever created this place "God," be it a supreme being with a will or a cosmic fart from another dimension.

If we define God as the Creator, He or She or It exists. After that we can't say much. People prayed, weird seemingly inexplicable things happened, lot's of stuff was written, a guy died on a cross, another guy had mystical epileptic fits and produced a beautiful, poetic work called the Qur'an despite being illiterate, etc, etc. Hence the body of theological and ontological doctrines composing many religions. But still, we don't know if this theoretical Creator, God, cares about us.

Science can't prove or disprove most philosophy, but that's all religion is--philosophy mixed with myth, mixed with blind faith, mixed with whatever else your chosen congregation can muster. Nobody agrees on anything and nothing can be proved beyond all doubt. We're cosmically screwed. We don't really know where we came from, where we're going, why we're here--a total existential hole.

People have two choices. They can a) believe in a benevolent and caring God and thereby provide themselves with some external purpose and meaning or b) they can not. If one chooses God, well then they've got convenient answers to all life's mysteries. The downside is a lot of their chosen beliefs are hard to defend and may sometimes seem to be ungrounded. This can cause frustration towards non-believers and inner cognitive dissonance (the tension created when one holds conflicting ideas). If one chooses not to believe in God, the problem is finding something else to give life meaning. There are plenty of alternatives, many of which may be equally fulfilling, many of which won't. Not believing in God involves a personal quest for purpose that may or may not be more difficult than the personal quest of accepting and serving God.

To sum up my post nicely: the universe was created, I think, and that's all we might know. Whatever created the universe (if something did), we can't know. We could call the creator "God." Sticking with that definition, He either cares about us or He doesn't. There is no Truth. Belief in a benevolent and caring God provides purpose. There are also other ways to find purpose. Maybe, even if one thinks they've found purpose, there still is no purpose. Oh well. We tried. Let's just go have a smoke.

I'd like to end with a quote by Fran?ois-Marie Arouet (Voltaire): "If there were no God, it would be necessary to invent him."
Thank you and good night.

P.S. Feel free to use this to explain God to your kids!


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Crap. Double post. My apologies.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > P.S.- I see a cookie on the plate next to me... it must have evolved over billions of years.. or wait maybe it just randomly exploded into existence from nothing.... or maybe someone made it?
> ...


 :wink: 8)

Egodeath I very much like your post. Do you consider yourself agnostic?


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

VinCi said:


> google: the watch maker argument + the blind watch maker


Go read the bible.......


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> Spirit said:
> 
> 
> > Conjurus said:
> ...


Uh-oh. You asked what I consider myself. Here I go:

I consider myself a nihilist, an abusrdist, and an agnostic. I consider myself a writer, a poet, a philosopher. I consider myself, therefore I exist (I hope). I consider myself a slave to fate and a free agent. I consider myself God and I consider myself insignificant. I consider myself insane. I don't know anything, especially about myself, but everyday I learn a little bit more.

I hope that answers your question.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

VinCi said:


> have, and not even on acid could I believe it
> 
> if you googled it, you are now a atheist.


Dude, on acid not only did I believe there was a God, but I believed I was He.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

I suppose...but, then again, maybe I am God. And a vengeful god at that. Follow my commandments lest I lay down my vengeance upon thee.


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

I get the feeling Vinci that you are chooing to suffer from Dp. You can play the victim all you like it will only send you down more. Perhaps thats why you are so argumentative, you cant handle fighting yourself anymore, so you feel good doing it with other people. You are very transparent.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

There's nothing wrong with a good debate, but VinCi hasnt exactly been civil. Check out the questions for evolutionists thread though he's actually being pretty decent.

edit- well not real nice to Lynsey, but overall for VinCi it seems to be an improvement.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

VinCi said:


> have, and not even on acid could I believe it
> 
> if you googled it, you are now a atheist.


Holy mother of god give the boy a crown he just performed a miracle!

I am *Non-theistic* in my veiws and some might say that I am athiest in the sence that I dont buy into the christian version of God in the same way that christians do but they could also say I was agnostic because I dont completly dimiss it at all-I have my own ideas..

*I am Buddhist*
The Buddha denounced the view of a Creator and sees that such notions are related to the false view of eternity.

Did you get it this time?.. Is it obvious enough here for you or do I need to repeat it again and again before it registers on your tiny radar?....silly billy.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

guitarman said:


> Not one soul through history observed the big bang.
> People have seen the wall behind me. And at one time or another I have seen it. My parents witnessed my birth and I believe them. Witness also observed the birth, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And I believe them.
> Now don't assume that I don't believe there was some version of a big bang in the beginning of time. I just happen to know the architect.


VERY VERY well said guitarman He is the architect of the big bang. Im Christian to btw.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I would pay to see a Dannie vs. Vinci debate in real life. One would end up killing the other as the other's last words are "remember me as a martyr". Can someone unleash the devil, cough, I mean Vinci, for a short period of time so we can have some entertainment on the site. Don't ya'll think that would be fun?


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I would pay to see a Dannie vs. Vinci debate in real life. One would end up killing the other as the other's last words are "remember me as a martyr". Can someone unleash the devil, cough, I mean Vinci, for a short period of time so we can have some entertainment on the site. Don't ya'll think that would be fun?


HAHAHAHA!!!!!! :lol: It would be pointless to debate with that guy. and btw, im so bored im just looking at old threads,lol. I didnt really expect anyone to reply back to these old threads. :lol:


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I would pay to see a Dannie vs. Vinci debate in real life. One would end up killing the other as the other's last words are "remember me as a martyr". Can someone unleash the devil, cough, I mean Vinci, for a short period of time so we can have some entertainment on the site. Don't ya'll think that would be fun?


That would be impossible since Dannie IS Vinci only reincarnated on the opposite spectrum of life. You can't beat Dannie with Science because his belief is that the Bible trumps Science in authority. You can't beat Vinci with the Bible because of the same principle.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Conjurus said:


> That would be impossible since Dannie IS Vinci only reincarnated on the opposite spectrum of life. You can't beat Dannie with Science because his belief is that the Bible trumps Science in authority. You can't beat Vinci with the Bible because of the same principle.


And this my friend, is why you should be hailed King.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Conjurus said:


> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> > I would pay to see a Dannie vs. Vinci debate in real life. One would end up killing the other as the other's last words are "remember me as a martyr". Can someone unleash the devil, cough, I mean Vinci, for a short period of time so we can have some entertainment on the site. Don't ya'll think that would be fun?
> ...


not really, I believe science is very important in a lot of areas and I believe God uses science in some ways, like finding cures for desieses ect. I just personally would rather put my faith in what God says and seek his advice first before I seek the advice of science. I dont have all the awnsers I just choose to have faith that the Bible is the word of God, I could be wrong but Gods word is meant to bring people to him, and to help peoples lives. What did Jesus do according to the Bible everyday after he prayed? He went around seeking those that he could heal or comfort. And I just choose to have faith that thats the truth. But I still think science is important, after all, Luke, one of Jesus' disciples was a physician, a scientist of sorts.lol.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

But the majority of science argues against the Bible. You couldn't believe what it says and the Bible and since I know you believe the Bible first, you'd believe it instead of anything else, so really what I said was true.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Conjurus said:


> But the majority of science argues against the Bible. You couldn't believe what it says and the Bible and since I know you believe the Bible first, you'd believe it instead of anything else, so really what I said was true.


i guess but i was referring to science like medicine and finding ways to making life easier. but yes I would believe the Bible first.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING BUT THE BIBLE. I AM AN ATHIEST EVEN THOUGH I HAVE MORE BELIEFS TOWARDS RELIGION THAN MOST PEOPLE,.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................MY NAME IS VINCI AND I'M BACK IN BLACK!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I BELIEVE IN EVERYTHING BUT THE BIBLE. I AM AN ATHIEST EVEN THOUGH I HAVE MORE BELIEFS TOWARDS RELIGION THAN MOST PEOPLE,.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................MY NAME IS VINCI AND I'M BACK IN BLACK!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Curious, why do you believe the Bible is true? Is it just pure faith and if so why? Why not study things to find out if what it says is really accurate and trustworthy? Or have you researched it and have information that shows why we should believe the Bible?


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Conjurus said:


> Curious, why do you believe the Bible is true? Is it just pure faith and if so why? Why not study things to find out if what it says is really accurate and trustworthy? Or have you researched it and have information that shows why we should believe the Bible?


I had a miraculous experience when I asked Jesus to be my savior that left me stunned because before this experience I didnt believe in God at all but I did believe that if somehow there was a God, that it was the God of the Bible because he is just, but also the most mercifull, forgiving, being that there is. One night at my aunts house, I was outside and had just smoked a joint about 3 hours earlier. It was nightime and I was looking up at the stars and I was saying in my head "God if you are real, please show me so that I won't be scared of death anymore", cause back then, since I didn't believe in God, I had a paralyzing fear of dying and ceasing to exist like there being no afterlife. And while I was sitting out there I started crying a little and I was thinking about how some of my family had told me in the past that I should ask Jesus to come into my heart and he would help me. So I said "you know what Im just gonna do it" so I went downstairs and told my dad that I was going to the shed to pray and get saved. I had no clue what I was really doing but I needed a change. So my dad asked me if I wanted him to come with me, and I said sure thats fine. So we go upstairs and we are in the living room and its me, my dad, my uncle, and my aunt standing in a circle and my uncle got out his Bible and asked me to repeat something after him, and he was reading something out of Romans about how to recieve salvation. And after I uttered the words "I except you as my lord and saviour", my uncle raised my hand in the air and shouted "PRAISE GOD, ANOTHER SOUL HAS BEEN SAVED TONIGHT!!!!". And as soon as he did that it was like a lightening bolt hit my body and I fell and my dad caught me and I was leaning on my Dads shoulder crying my eyes out for joy as this incredible heat sensation flowed through my body. It was like the most incredible high that you could imagine. I could actually feel the kind of love that God has for us, and it ingulfed my mind because I had never felt love like that EVER. I was unable to stand and I also felt the peace that God can give people that was unimagianable. And this whole time, I have this incredible heat in my body but it was the most comforting feeling ive ever had, it was supernatural. One minute I don't even believe in God, the next minute I know he exists. And every since then, I havent questioned the Bible or whether God exists. And I know who the real God is because, not to be offensive, but I didnt ask allah into my heart, I asked Jesus into my heart and he gave me the most incredible experience ive EVER had in my life. That is my reasoning for believing the Bible and believing in Jesus.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Well good for you man. A point I like to make for Christianity is the fact that our dating system is based on Jesus. I mean no other man had the impact that he did. That must mean something.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Conjurus said:


> Well good for you man. A point I like to make for Christianity is the fact that our dating system is based on Jesus. I mean no other man had the impact that he did. That must mean something.


Completely agreed.  If I could have One wish not related to DP, it would be to see Jesus for 5 minutes to tell him thank you for what he did and for his kindness, and I would give him the biggest hug he's ever had. MAN I cant wait to get to heaven and see him face to face.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

I've also had several experienajbes that most would definitely call miraculous BUT that doesnt mean that everything in the bible is litteral and not wrongly translated, infact my experiences showed what was wrong with it and right.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

I agree. I feel that I can trust the story of Jesus being true. I don't know how else to explain the experiences I've felt with that. I believe God exists and I believe that he's capable of preserving truth. Who's to say that he didn't know the Bible would become one of the world's major religions and so he inserted the story of Jesus for exposure.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

I believe in God but not in the same way you do. Not in an ego way. Now, I have absolute conviction in Christ because of what happened to me but I the bible is still hugely misunderstood and inacurate in many places even and taken to literaly- thats not to say it doesnt hold truth because it does.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

If I understand ego correctly, then i don't believe that God has ego. I believe God is a conscious, sentient being though.

I also believe what you do about the Bible.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

I dont believe that God is seperate to us. God is source and truth, every single one of us has that truth within us its what makes us who we are. Collectively everything is God. God isnt a seperate entity or a he or she, God is our highest potential. When they say with God in heaven, you reach that potential, you destroy ideas of ego that creates an ilusion of seperation from God and everything and causes people to create Suffering-sin. It is Ego that seperates us, ego is the "devil" that divides.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Wow I'm starting to get it. I can so easily see the relationship that teaching has to christianity. It seems like people who argue those points are debating which are the proper terms rather than what is the correct teaching.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Yes  that i it. Actually though i learned this myself through years of questioning and my experiences. It has been my my quest in life tn find the truth and unity between all religions/paths It comes down to what consciousness is, God is pure non dual awareness and what we percieve as dual is really non duel, not ego-the ego/devil is the ilusion that creates the ilusion and on the cycle goes. So in that sense God is awareness, a conscious being not seperate to us though.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

And when we hear there is only one son of God, that is expressing the truth of non duality, of non ego. Yet when people believe in an ego/devil they go against God.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

My studies of Christianity indicate that there is only one _Son_ of God, but there are many _sons_ of God.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

? We are all sons and daughters of God but together we are one in God. Terminology again see...


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

What I mean is, Jesus is the only Son (capital S) of God. Those who get saved all become sons (lower case s) of God.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Well now see I really dont like the terminology or idea of "get saved" . There is one truth for everyone, there is only the ilusion of seperation from God, truth, source. Its not that people are selected and others not, all we have to do is lift the veil of ego and see what we truly are. I think the whole teaching of believe and be saved is a mis translation. Its know and see what you realy already truly are and stop choosing otherwise.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Well to get saved means for God to come to dwell in your heart and i think that is another way of saying what you're trying to say.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Thats a very beautiful way of putting it Jesse. If we are going to use the word saved then I will say that everyone is already "saved" but ego and ignorance stops people from seeing what they truly are and they act from ego and choose otherwise- they misuse their wil because ego perceives imperfection and then creates suffering through that ilusion.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Yes, I think "getting saved" is just like lifting the veil of ego.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

That was a nice friendly debate, why can't they all be like that with each person simply sharing their veiws. :wink:


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

I didn't even know we were debating lol. I was only trying to understand how you thought about this stuff and seeing how it was similar to what the Bible teaches.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Same difference lol.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

I always thought debating was more of saying why you believe something is right and something else is wrong.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Omg a debate about debating? Coming to a Dpd forum near you soon folks ......

Dont sweat the small stufff :


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

I don't think we were debating about debating though. I think we were both only presenting our views of what debating is and trying to understand how our different views compared.

:wink:


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

..


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

...


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Spirit said:


> Or we could start a new debate debating about the debate where we was debating whether we was debathng about debating or eff it we could master bate


 :shock: I'm lost.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Spirit said:


> God is our highest potential.


then why does the Bible say that even our best is as filthy rags compared to God?


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Because it is when we act from Ego, but when we overcome ego ideas that is being in heaven with God and reaching our highest potential.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Of course by then we arent viewing things as good or bad, as best or worst as we only see "Gods" perfection and ego never sees that awesomeness.


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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

I have 2 questions for you Lynsey. In your opinion, do you believe there is an afterlife? and if so, where do you think it is.
And the second question is, what do you think about the book of Revalation that talks about the anti-christ and the mark of the beast and the apocolypse?


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

eduEDU1 said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > Curious, why do you believe the Bible is true? Is it just pure faith and if so why? Why not study things to find out if what it says is really accurate and trustworthy? Or have you researched it and have information that shows why we should believe the Bible?
> ...


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## Zee Deveel (Aug 3, 2009)

Conjurus said:


> And science says we got here by the big bang?
> 
> Where did the big bang come from?


Supposedly Stephen Hawking has spent most of his career since he came up with the 'Big Bang Theory' trying to disprove it's existence.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

Zee Deveel said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > And science says we got here by the big bang?
> ...


Wow, do you know why he is trying to disprove his own theory?


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## simplynothing (Aug 23, 2009)

Zee Deveel said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > And science says we got here by the big bang?
> ...


thats interesting. where did you read that at? if you dont mind me asking.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> And science says we got here by the big bang?
> 
> Where did the big bang come from?


Who cares? What difference does it make whether you were born from a woman or grown in a test tube? Knowing the true nature of the origin of the universe would be cool and all, but it wouldn't change the fact that we're here and alive and have to deal with it.


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## Zee Deveel (Aug 3, 2009)

simplynothing said:


> Zee Deveel said:
> 
> 
> > Conjurus said:
> ...


Don't actually remember.

I'll try and find a source for it.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

egodeath said:


> it wouldn't change the fact that we're here and alive.


Are we Ryan?....................................Are we? :|


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## Gundly (Sep 7, 2009)

Claymore said:


> egodeath said:
> 
> 
> > it wouldn't change the fact that we're here and alive.
> ...


We are here, I heard that God has always been and always will be. No start no end. The human mind is unable to perceive this information but only pondor the thoughts of it's reality.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

Gundly said:


> I heard that God has always been and always will be. No start no end.


I know he's always been and always will be. No start, No end. That must mean that their was a time where all there was was The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. No we can't nor do I think we are meant to comprehend that.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Claymore said:


> egodeath said:
> 
> 
> > it wouldn't change the fact that we're here and alive.
> ...


Yes. Rejecting existence gets you nowhere. It can be an interesting thought experiment, but it leads to DP and DR, which are not functional states.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

egodeath said:


> but it leads to DP and DR, which are not functional states.


Thats the most truth I've heard all day. But DP/DR MAKES you feel like your not here and alive, sometimes you don't know what to believe. :?


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Claymore said:


> But DP/DR MAKES you feel like your not here and alive, sometimes you don't know what to believe. :?


Oh, of course. That's why it sucks so hard. When I was DP/DR'd, especially towards the beginning, I had no idea what was going on. I was pretty much convinced that I was the only person on the planet--borderline delusional stuff. But that's just it: emotions and feelings aren't grounded in reality--especially for us--and we're particularly prone to flawed logic. Every day I would reach the sound conclusion that life was but a dream in the eternal sleep of the universe, which sounds poetic and all, but is a really messed up thing to _actually_ believe. So if we can't trust our logic when we're DP/DR'd, when can we trust our logic? A good question, and one which can (and has) drove people to the edge of insanity. The answer is simple: when it works. There may be no such thing as "perfect" logic, but if something makes a lot of sense and doesn't entail your being the second coming of the messiah, or life being a literal dream, then run with it. If you reach a logical conclusion that sounds pretty insane, chances are one of your premises didn't fit.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

egodeath said:


> Claymore said:
> 
> 
> > But DP/DR MAKES you feel like your not here and alive, sometimes you don't know what to believe. :?
> ...


Good advice Ry.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

egodeath said:


> Oh, of course. That's why it sucks so hard. When I was DP/DR'd, especially towards the beginning, I had no idea what was going on. I was pretty much convinced that I was the only person on the planet--borderline delusional stuff. But that's just it: emotions and feelings aren't grounded in reality--especially for us--and we're particularly prone to flawed logic. Every day I would reach the sound conclusion that life was but a dream in the eternal sleep of the universe, which sounds poetic and all, but is a really messed up thing to _actually_ believe. So if we can't trust our logic when we're DP/DR'd, when can we trust our logic? A good question, and one which can (and has) drove people to the edge of insanity. The answer is simple: when it works. There may be no such thing as "perfect" logic, but if something makes a lot of sense and doesn't entail your being the second coming of the messiah, or life being a literal dream, then run with it. If you reach a logical conclusion that sounds pretty insane, chances are one of your premises didn't fit.


Good stuff, I always enjoy reading what you write Ryan.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

egodeath said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > And science says we got here by the big bang?
> ...


Well if the Bible is true it makes a huge difference.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

Conjurus said:


> egodeath said:
> 
> 
> > Conjurus said:
> ...


EXACTLY!!!


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