# How I Recovered - aka Why This Forum can be BS



## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

So I went through depersonalization disorder for nine months, from my 14th birthday until now, I'm almost 15. I've grown up, matured and become a much better person through the experience and now that I'm recovered, I want to share how I go there - in RETROSPECT! 

First off, I find it pointless and counterproductive, to both myself and anyone reading this, to delve deep into how much the disorder sucked and how painful it was - that's what like 90% of this forum is right? People reinforcing their own self pity on an already flimsy psychological state and blowing their brains to shit with such crushing negative attitudes toward their condition that it becomes their life.

With little to no definitive scientific info on DP out there, people go on the internet and jump to the conclusion that DP is basically a mysterious, hell-on-earth, uncurable psychological condition that will stay with a person for the rest of their life and physically disable them from enjoying anything ever again. They'll be stuck in this constant detachment state unable to connect with or understand the outside world. I saw a "scientific" article a while back that began something like..."after my life has been ceased by an unknown disease of unreality..."

...Yeah. That pretty much sums up the attitude toward DP on here. Which is absurd, irrational, counterproductive, and just flat out wrong. What I discovered when I began recovering is that the people stuck in DP hell constantly reinforce that EXACT attitude upon themselves, believing they have no control over the disorder and that it will never go away - and yet they constantly try to fight it and focus all their attention on it. This state of mind is what causes it to stick around and you continue to dig yourself into a deeper and deeper hole, one that it took me the better part of 8-9 months to crawl out of.

The other enormous issue on the forum is the "one-size fits all" emotional trauma explanation. Because DP/DR is categorized as a dissociative disorder (a detachment from reality caused by trauma, usually) there are tons of people on here whose life's mission seems to be to convince everyone with DP that theirs was caused by some hidden emotional trauma from their childhood - and the most famous example of this is a guy named Fearless.

As far as helping people who acquired DP through repressed trauma, he's a godsend, and my respect goes to him for the pervasive, incessantly positive attitude and drive he brings to helping people face difficult pasts. But to force the trauma explanation on EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this forum, regardless of their onset, their story, etc... is fucking inaccurate, as well as the biggest reason that it took me so long to recover. I spent several months going back through my memories before I got DP, tainting every one with a negative coat of paint and believing that I was in fact "traumatized" by simple things in my past - and because I couldn't place exactly what it was, I was cursed to have the disorder for life by some intangible psychological scar I had acquired.

BULL.

SHIT.

It was some time in June or July, when my disorder had significantly lifted from hanging out with friends, going on trips and generally relearning how to have a good time - that I reassessed my who situation. I looked at some of the things Fearless and other people were saying on here - that people with DP were in fact unhappy their entire lives beforehand, living lies and acting on fake ambitions because we had something horrific and unbalanced in their past - I just didn't fit that bill. I asked myself, was that really me? Was I really such an unhappy, scared and hopeless person before I got the disorder?

FUCK NO! The whole reason that DP was so painful to me was because it was such a sudden and drastic reduction in my quality of life! I'd spent 13 years before this one in a state of happiness, wonder and adventure as I journeyed through this fucking awesome thing called life. Everybody has their ups and downs, but the attitude on here made me go back and blow every down out of proportion, and disregard every up as something positive. This was all wrong. And right then, as my brain chemistry fully rebalanced and I felt reality for the first time in 7 months - I realized that by changing my attitude and fear toward my symptoms in that moment - I COULD GET OUT. The truth was, I had this great life waiting for me out there and my own thoughts had been dragging me down further than I thought they could ever take me.

I thought back, rationally for the first time, to my DP onset. It no longer played back in my head like a horror movie, but instead as something that I could break down and analyze. I went back over my thoughts in late October and early November - and realized that I had been having some serious anxiety that I'd been denying and pushing aside. Hurricane Sandy nearly hit North Carolina where I lived, plus I had just started high school, plus my life-long health fears and aversion to throwing up had reached a new level of intensity. I was having constant (psychogenic) nausea and because I didn't know my brain could cause it, I thought something was seriously physically wrong with me. This was ALL at once. I'd say that's a big accumulation of anxiety, certainly enough to trigger DP: the morning after the presidential election of 2012, I woke up in a fog that it would take me until next summer to get out of. All because of a pile of bad thoughts that I was having all at once.

So, Fearless, I say this directly to you - I respect your drive to help people and anyone as ambitiously positive as you deserves a freakin round of applause, man. But I'm completely out of DP, I had no "past trauma" to face, and your advice no longer applies to me - nor will it make me second-guess my past again. Help who you have the authority to help, but you're only hindering those you don't.

To everybody else with DP, I just have to say it like this - if a 14-year-old can beat this, any of you can. It's a thought disorder, and I've made videos explaining how it works, as well as more detail on my own story through the disorder. Enormous thanks go to Sean Madden, who's videos and posts, as well as a single encouraging comment on my YouTube page, were instrumental in getting me out of the disorder and back into the AWESOME life that I now lead once again. I'll hang around the forums occasionally now to help people out and answer questions, but DP is in my past, and with it, dpselfhelp is behind me.

Best of luck to everybody, you can do this.

-Penn

My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/raleighrailfan

Sean Madden's Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5TyXp_7WNOXA3cD_rRAnVw


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## let_it_be (Aug 27, 2013)

Our stories are so similar it's almost scary. I've had a fear and constant of anxiety of throwing up for most of my life, and when I thought that I was truly over this anxiety, a marijuana-induced panic attack brought out all of this bottled up anxiety that I was trying to ignore for this past year. Between starting high school and the daily fears I had. This caused me to slowly lose my sense of reality and over the past month I have been doing what you have said and I am getting closer and closer to recovery every day.(Besides the occasional relapses that have been difficult to pull myself out of) I know I can get throught this and I think it's about time I stop thinking and start doing.


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## roadt2recovery (Aug 27, 2013)

To each his own


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## heartless (Apr 29, 2013)

Huge ass post, + your videos helped me a lot when it all started for me. 
Very very VERY happy that you've made it. I will open a thread like that soon. 
Give me a month or two to completely kill my life issues. Have a perfect life!


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Could you tell about your parent's marriage and your family in general? It'd be helpful so others can see that you really come from a functional family, and I could also update what I know and learn.
> 
> and what was the quality drop in your life?
> 
> ...


Sure man! So glad you got to see this and respond.

So I have two great parents who I'd say are strong role models to me. I admire my dad's insight, support and willingness to help and be there for me, as well as my mother's keen observance, admiration for me and constant care. Whatever it is that I'm struggling with they've always been willing to help, and I look up to them greatly.

They divorced when I was two years old, the same year that my older half-brother and sister went off to college. Though apparently their marriage before that was not perfect, the divorce was very amicable and we all handled it very well. I was actually rather excited by the change (moving houses and stuff) but was too young to understand any of the negative aspects of it, and both they and my brother and sister have always claimed it was for the better. Since then I've lived equally with both parents, spending a week at one house then one at the other's (they live 10 minutes from each other and still get along very well, just not romantically) and I went to a FANTASTIC Montessori school up until 8th grade. This gave me strong personal connections to friends and very supportive, attentive teachers that understood me and my unusual ambitions (I was extremely creative from a young age, constantly trying to write and draw, I wrote a 300-page novel at age 12, and have released 5 EDM albums on itunes now).

There were negative things too, but nothing that seems abnormal. I was bullied in the 4th-5th grade and was something of an outcast, but both my parents and siblings gave me lots of support and advice, and my brother especially was a great role model, having gone through similar things. By 7th grade I had established a much better social circle and was truly happy with the person I was.

I'd always had mild anxiety, but never severe enough to cause my parents to take me to a psychologist or worry. I've feared throwing up and having any health problem for as long as I can remember, and as I got older my fears about catching illnesses or having health problems escalated with me. I began analyzing symptoms and jumping to conclusions about them, fearing that a stomach cramp was appendicitis or that being out of breath meant my throat was closing - just stuff like that. I generally monitored my feelings/sensations an abnormally large amount. This got notably worse over the course of 2012, and the month of October before I got DP, it was at it's worst - I was so used to it at that point that I really denied I was struggling.

DP came on gradually a couple times in late October/early November 2012, usually when my health fears and anxiety were at their worst. Instead of even acknowledging that I had anxiety, I would fear I was going insane and try to "follow" these thoughts/feelings even further to see where they led me. By November 7th, 2012, I had completely drawn myself into this "feeling" and couldn't shake it, no matter how hard I tried. After some web surfing, that night I came upon dpselfhelp, and after reading about 5 different stories of people who'd had the disorder for years and couldn't get over it, I'd jumped to the conclusion that it was inevitable and I would be now stuck with it for the rest of my life.

Instant panic attack, and then I had constant DP with maybe 30 minutes of relief once a week up until June 2013, when I began the recovery I wrote about above.

The "quality drop" I noticed was simply that I realized, going about with DP, how much happiness I'd lost all of a sudden. Before DP, the average day would have probably a dozen things that would make me happy or proud, or at least I'd react to them. I lost my sense of a "good day" or "bad day," and everything had become pain - my brain was indifferent to the outside world and therefore I could no longer feel any positive reaction to the good things going on in my life: friendships, girls I liked, getting good grades, writing, watching movies... They didn't do anything for me. But this is classic DP, everyone on here knows this feeling.

So I told my parents about DP one by one. My dad instantly knew what I was talking about, and told me that he too had this same feeling through his adolescent years, but didn't really know what it was, and it only was a problem when he wasn't preoccupied with something. It came and went occasionally for him, but eventually went away completely. He seemed to regard it as a small thing and not a large issue. As it went on for me, I continued to update him on my symptoms, but simply because I'd established myself to my parents as such a mature, confident person, I never admitted how painful or debilitating it was.

I told my mother once like 2 days after the onset, that I was creeped out and unsure what was happening. She bluntly said that it was all in my head and I just needed to stop thinking about it, which at the time I thought was impossible. I thought it had come out of nowhere and something neurological was going on, but in the end she was COMPLETELY right. It just took 7 or 8 months for me to completely realize it for myself.

So I think that covers your questions. I've found a large amount of evidence that anxiety can cause transient feelings of dissociation, and if you notice/become anxious about these feelings it creates a thought pattern that continues the feeling and turns an otherwise happy person into someone constantly bogged down by the really, really shitty feeling we all on here know - far too well. Depersonalization.

Hope this makes sense man, glad you're so open to hearing my story.


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## seafoamwinterz (Aug 12, 2013)

"BULL.

SHIT.

It was some time in June or July, when my disorder had significantly lifted from hanging out with friends, going on trips and generally relearning how to have a good time - that I reassessed my who situation. I looked at some of the things Fearless and other people were saying on here - that people with DP were in fact unhappy their entire lives beforehand, living lies and acting on fake ambitions because we had something horrific and unbalanced in their past - I just didn't fit that bill. I asked myself, was that really me? Was I really such an unhappy, scared and hopeless person before I got the disorder?

FUCK NO! The whole reason that DP was so painful to me was because it was such a sudden and drastic reduction in my quality of life! I'd spent 13 years before this one in a state of happiness, wonder and adventure as I journeyed through this fucking awesome thing called life. Everybody has their ups and downs, but the attitude on here made me go back and blow every down out of proportion, and disregard every up as something positive. This was all wrong. And right then, as my brain chemistry fully rebalanced and I felt reality for the first time in 7 months - I realized that by changing my attitude and fear toward my symptoms in that moment - I COULD GET OUT. The truth was, I had this great life waiting for me out there and my own thoughts had been dragging me down further than I thought they could ever take me. "

I... I... I BELIEVE YOU. Before DP I was a fucking happy-go-lucky, center-of-attention kid with no social anxiety!!!! The thing that fucked me up WAS the DP. And I got it from a near drowning experience!!! If anything my personality changed once I got the DP....


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## seafoamwinterz (Aug 12, 2013)

So, I mean, the only thing DP is is anxiety?


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## roadt2recovery (Aug 27, 2013)

Listen you all, if your life was so happy and full of life and perfect before DP, please tell me what the hell are you doing on this forum? What happy person would be affected by DP, DP doesn't just come out of nowhere, it doesn't even have to be a bad situation with family life, or a bad childhood, or things to do with parents, it could be problems do with life in general, you might be in a job that is unsatisfying, you might have a boss you hate with passion but that hate has to be stuffed down as you need the job. You might be losing friends, and you're scared to face loneliness, you might have had a devastating break up with your girlfriend, but being that you're a man, you have to dismiss that truth that you're devastated and act like the break up didn't affect you, you might deep down be wishing you did something different in your life but scared to face this fact, before DP, and I really mean before DP, you might have been missing how life was different and better, you might be wishing a situation in your life before DP was handled differently, you might have been wishing things go your way, you might have been stressed about exam results, you might have been stressed about how you might have let down your parents with bad exam results, you might have been comparing your life to others around you and feel down about how yours does not match up to theirs, and this ALL can happen even before DP. You see DP is basically just that, life has just gotten too overwhelming all of that just builds up all the while you dismiss the fact that life is too overwhelming, get it?

You believe life was almost perfect before DP, think about it, why would you be affected by DP if life was almost perfect before DP? DP doesn't just come out of nowhere to fuck up your "almost perfect life", you would have to go through years of stuffing down emotions, running away from real life problems, acting brave in situations that have hurt you, then when all that becomes too much, you start fantasizing and analyzing and start thinking about irrelevant things and then BAM, that's when and why DP comes.

I'm just saying this might not relate to you, but this relates to me so much, I'm not trying to force everyone to believe that they have bad childhood experiences, and claim we're all in one boat. But just start getting real about it, you're not doomed to have DP, you are not here to suffer, you're making yourself suffer by running away and acting like life is always meant to be perfect.


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## seafoamwinterz (Aug 12, 2013)

"Listen you all, if your life was so happy and full of life and perfect before *anxiety*, please tell me what the hell are you doing on this forum? What happy person would be affected by* anxiety*, *anxiety* doesn't just come out of nowhere, it doesn't even have to be a bad situation with family life, or a bad childhood, or things to do with parents, it could be problems do with life in general, you might be in a job that is unsatisfying, you might have a boss you hate with passion but that hate has to be stuffed down as you need the job. You might be losing friends, and you're scared to face loneliness, you might have had a devastating break up with your girlfriend, but being that you're a man, you have to dismiss that truth that you're devastated and act like the break up didn't affect you, you might deep down be wishing you did something different in your life but scared to face this fact, before *anxiety*, and I really mean before* anxiety*, you might have been missing how life was different and better, you might be wishing a situation in your life before *anxiety* was handled differently, you might have been wishing things go your way, you might have been stressed about exam results, you might have been stressed about how you might have let down your parents with bad exam results, you might have been comparing your life to others around you and feel down about how yours does not match up to theirs, and this ALL can happen even before *anxiety*. You see *anxiety* is basically just that, life has just gotten too overwhelming all of that just builds up all the while you dismiss the fact that life is too overwhelming, get it?

You believe life was almost perfect before *anxiety*, think about it, why would you be affected by *anxiety* if life was almost perfect before *anxiety*? *Anxiety* doesn't just come out of nowhere to fuck up your "almost perfect life", you would have to go through years of stuffing down emotions, running away from real life problems, acting brave in situations that have hurt you, then when all that becomes too much, you start fantasizing and analyzing and start thinking about irrelevant things and then BAM, that's when and why anxiety comes.

I'm just saying this might not relate to you, but this relates to me so much, I'm not trying to force everyone to believe that they have bad childhood experiences, and claim we're all in one boat. But just start getting real about it, you're not doomed to have *anxiety*, you are not here to suffer, you're making yourself suffer by running away and acting like life is always meant to be perfect"

it all makes sense once you look at it like this.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Thanks for your answer.
> 
> It would have been more credible to write in your opening post, that even though you disagree with my theory, you are a child of a dysfunctional family and your parents divorced when you were two years old (which is exactly the age when attachment styles are developed). Because by reading your post people may believe that you actually live in a family.
> 
> ps: I also lived one week at my father and one week at my mother, which created gigantic problems in my self-esteem and emotional development.


Thanks for the response man. It's fine if that's what you conclude. Could be that the attachment style I developed was unconventional, but I honestly don't think it applies to me anymore. Though maybe the family setup wasn't "perfect" by all means, it was an entirely positive experience that I happily look back on without any regrets. And more to the point, I no longer need to explore this as even if this "family issue" was a contributor, because my DP's gone. I can pull my head out of my past and seize the future for what it is. Thanks a ton for your help.


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## seafoamwinterz (Aug 12, 2013)

As far as Im concerned no one has a perfect family.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

seafoamwinterz said:


> As far as Im concerned no one has a perfect family.


I totally agree. There are certainly good, functioning families and plenty of dysfunctional families, but if a family as great as mine is considered traumatic and dysfunctional, then why the hell doesn't the majority of the world population have some form of dissociation? Even though my family wasn't structurally "perfect" I think I had more emotional support and care than most kids these days, and I'm nothing but grateful for that. Nor will I let some guy off the internet overthrow my admiration for my fantastic family simply by labeling it "dysfunctional."


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2013)

.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

You are very wise for ur age...I can tell by the way u speak 

Congrats on conquering the disorder


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## googleeyes (Apr 25, 2012)

Op, you are definitely very insightful for your age. I believe that you hit the nail on the head in your opening post. I am glad to see that you didn't fall into the self analyzing trap that was laid out for you. 
Fearless, please stop trying to fit everyone into your tiny little box. I'm sorry that your theory is one of many, but stop grasping at straws.

May I be so blunt as to ask what your level of education is?


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Fearless said:


>


But see, you've avoided this point time and time again Fearless.

You've never answered it properly. WHY is it that despite the fact that a great portion of society have dysfunctional family systems (according to your criteria), few people have depersonalisation?

You say that some are pre-disposed and have certain personality types, this is it?


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## CharlieFreak (Nov 19, 2012)

That's awesome that you gained all this insight at such a young age.


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## branl (May 21, 2010)

my two uncles were sexually abused, and made to do things to other men, at least 15 men, and there own dad, and also punched and verbally abused..

none have dp, not one, and that got through life, I would considered that disorganized attachment..

but if they came on here, people would say you got dp from that.

even my dad got punch in he head, and hit while he was in bed, and letters were left saying clean the house you cunt, or you not going anywere in life cunt, etc

I would also considered that disorganized attachment, my dad just spoke to me, he has never had dp and had lots stress. not even anxiety, not even deep depression. that blows the whole dp disorganized attachment out the window.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

branl said:


> my two uncles were sexually abused, and made to do things to other men, at least 15 men, and there own dad, and also punched and verbally abused..
> 
> none have dp, not one, and that got through life, I would considered that disorganized attachment..
> 
> ...


This is what I've been saying ffs. ffs not directed at you btw


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## let_it_be (Aug 27, 2013)

seafoamwinterz said:


> So, I mean, the only thing DP is is anxiety?


That's all it is for the most part. Eliminate anxiety=No more DP.


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## branl (May 21, 2010)

also, my aunties were touched, and hit, no dp..infact my family from the 1950's and 60's was very dysfuctional..pretty much fuck up.. not one has dp.. just blows the whole disorganized shit out the window.

Also they have been through more stress than me, yet I am the only one in the family who got dp..maybe cos I am a little bitch who needs to just face my fears and responsibiltys and stop being so sensitive to things..

maybe its how i think about things.


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## branl (May 21, 2010)

the whole world has dp aparently..

plus I got dp once when I was really tired, but it went once I sleeped.

then I starting stressing way before I got dp..major stress, cause me to get anxiety, and bad depressive states, then I WOKE UP and bang dp. thought I was going crazy


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## branl (May 21, 2010)

I def have cognitive distortions


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

Midnight said:


> But see, you've avoided this point time and time again Fearless.
> 
> You've never answered it properly. WHY is it that despite the fact that a great portion of society have dysfunctional family systems (according to your criteria), few people have depersonalisation?
> 
> You say that some are pre-disposed and have certain personality types, this is it?


Fearless does have a point about the simultaneous triggers - I just don't think that emotional abuse is as pivotal a factor as he says. Jeff Abugel (another DP buff who wrote two books) noted there was a trend among DP'd people to be perfectionist, or creative, introspective, or intelligent. I think that when that type of person experiences a big negative event or severe anxiety (which leads to a transient brain chemistry alteration that causes DP) they NOTICE the feeling, become anxious about it, and bam.


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## Swansea (Jun 11, 2013)

pennh10 said:


> Fearless does have a point about the simultaneous triggers - I just don't think that emotional abuse is as pivotal a factor as he says. Jeff Abugel (another DP buff who wrote two books) noted there was a trend among DP'd people to be perfectionist, or creative, introspective, or intelligent. I think that when that type of person experiences a big negative event or severe anxiety (which leads to a transient brain chemistry alteration that causes DP) they NOTICE the feeling, become anxious about it, and bam.


I would agree with that if you notice most of the people on this forum are highly intelligent, introspective, theorizing type people. Which is a lot of the same type people in one internet forum.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

I think in some ways all of us on here are right.

Branl had a good point that DP can show up slightly in the case of sleep deprivation, mild anxiety, or cognitive distortions (there's a lot of evidence to that).

The disorder comes along in two different major scenarios I think:

1. When emotionally traumatized people with a psychological disposition to dissociate encounter some big EVENT that triggers the DP. Not everyone, probably only a small portion, of people in dysfunctional family systems encounter a trigger for DP, that's why it isn't so much more rampant if dysfunctional families are as common as Fearless says.

2. When highly intelligent/creative people (who are more aware of there own thoughts processes and feelings, especially those like me who analyzed their body and mind obsessively) experience some sort of acute or prolonged anxiety, or their brain chemistry is altered by a bad drug hit, or a sudden big life event - they are more likely to NOTICE it and panic. This seems to be the most common way that people on here got DP, and I think the 'predisposition' to noticing it extends far beyond just emotional trauma in their past.

This is just what I've deduced from hearing people's stories and tons of internet research over the past year. We on this site are all united by going through this same painful experience together, and therefore I want to respect everybody's opinion.


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## Swansea (Jun 11, 2013)

As much as fearless has some insight into helping people notice and move through the disorganized attachment stye anyone who has one formula for everyone and invalidates and disempowers people for differing emotion or opinion is culty and abusive. He will probably either not respond to this or reply with something snarky and rude. But, I don't like seeing someone on a self help site bullying others into accepting his brand of DP recovery.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Now this is a critic that is worth to read and I'm open to talk about it. I agree, but perfectionism, creativity are all related to emotional abuse. Neglected children spend a lot of time alone, dwelling into their fantasy world. And perfectionism is usually a pathogenic adaptation to a parent that loves the child conditionally, or an attempt from the child to "fix" its dysfunctional family.


Also dude there's one thing I'm gonna have to say bluntly. If you're implying that all creative people are the way that they are because they were abused/neglected as a child, then I can't even respect your argument as this is both disrespectful and flat out wrong.

I think I'm a living counter to that theory - I had a phenomenally positive upbringing in which I was voraciously creative from a young age because my parents introduced me to literature and film when I was very small. At age 4 they started me taking piano, and I became fascinated with music, taught myself the guitar at age 8, and began producing electronic music at age 10. I was also fascinated by film and storytelling, wrote my first full-length novel at age 12, and have now written and directed two 30-minute films and released 5 albums on iTunes. All of this was a product of my positive ambition and desire to create, and my parents supported me every step of the way. I'm 14, I'm working my hardest in school and strive to get accepted into a major film school and become a director/screenwriter.

I also don't consider myself a perfectionist, although I set high standards for myself. It's not a defense mechanism, I just have a drive to get shit done and if the above evidence doesn't prove that it's paid off then I don't know what will.


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

"Fearless theory"

By that logic 1+1=2 is only "teacher's theory",

the amount of calories in a food only "product's theory",

the weather outside only "observer's theory",

not the science community's who has done great research behind it.


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## smilingtogether (Aug 30, 2013)

It's not the drugs that cause DP. I spent forever thinking it was the marijuana I smoked but I had several bad trips prior to the DP and I got out of those just by sleeping. Sometimes they lasted longer than a day but I never felt the unreal/brain fog feeling until after my worst trip which actually happened when I ran away from home after being beat up by my sister... About a week after she and my mom beat me up. So I'm definitely here to say that drugs are not the cause, I have had happy highs before and couldn't even comprehend the idea of a bad trip until someone told me about it and then I started obsessively thinking about it... Right after having these traumatic experiences.


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## Scaredx (Mar 28, 2013)

branl said:


> the whole world has dp aparently..
> 
> plus I got dp once when I was really tired, but it went once I sleeped.
> 
> then I starting stressing way before I got dp..major stress, cause me to get anxiety, and bad depressive states, then I WOKE UP and bang dp. thought I was going crazy


I agree.


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## Scaredx (Mar 28, 2013)

pennh10 said:


> Also dude there's one thing I'm gonna have to say bluntly. If you're implying that all creative people are the way that they are because they were abused/neglected as a child, then I can't even respect your argument as this is both disrespectful and flat out wrong.
> I think I'm a living counter to that theory - I had a phenomenally positive upbringing in which I was voraciously creative from a young age because my parents introduced me to literature and film when I was very small. At age 4 they started me taking piano, and I became fascinated with music, taught myself the guitar at age 8, and began producing electronic music at age 10. I was also fascinated by film and storytelling, wrote my first full-length novel at age 12, and have now written and directed two 30-minute films and released 5 albums on iTunes. All of this was a product of my positive ambition and desire to create, and my parents supported me every step of the way. I'm 14, I'm working my hardest in school and strive to get accepted into a major film school and become a director/screenwriter.
> I also don't consider myself a perfectionist, although I set high standards for myself. It's not a defense mechanism, I just have a drive to get shit done and if the above evidence doesn't prove that it's paid off then I don't know what will.


That shocked me too - not all creative people were emotionally abused! Creativity is a gift. I believe I became creative from paying attention in school and expressing an interest at a very young age in art and literature. Creativity would not have "grown with me" had it not been for the teachers I had and the involvement I had in the subject (entering competitions etc.). I knew many girls who were creative and intelligent and when I went over to their houses their parents were as normal as you could get. My parents, however, were emotionally abusive. There is no connection between emotional abuse and creativity, in my opinion.


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> You just admitted that you're checking my blog every day you idiot.
> 
> Anyway, your mother is making me enough cash, I don't need more.


I hope you didn't really take offline your blog because of some useless troll Fearless. It was the most helpful thing on here, a forum filled with USELESS SHIT, and I really hope that you bring it back online. Cheers mate


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## Elina (Jan 19, 2011)

philandrjack said:


> I hope you didn't really take offline your blog because of some useless troll Fearless. It was the most helpful thing on here, a forum filled with USELESS SHIT, and I really hope that you bring it back online. Cheers mate


I agree! I dont understand why some members attacks Fearless and wants to annoy him. So what if he is wrong (I personaly think his writings are right and most useful that I have ever red from anywhere) his not doing any harm to no one, he is really voluntarily trying to help us. I can personaly admit that big part of my problems is that I am passive and lazy. Fearlesses straight and "tough love" writing style is getting trough to me and making me face my problems. So trolls: SHUT UP! Fearless: I really appriciate what your doing and hope you will continue your blog (or at least return your previous writings) they are great and I have became adiccted of them!


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## AlexFromPT (Jun 26, 2011)

Some of us actually use your blog quite often. I respect your decision but you're taking this way too seriously and personally. They're the ones in DP with a huge black whole and a scared child inside of them and you know that.

Your blog, along with Harrington's program are the two most beneficial recovery programs/resources known to Man, and you took it down? You actually achieved something great for all humans (srs) in case you didn't notice.


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> . In the meantime everybody can read those useful threads about iboga and brain chemistry.


Lol. Anyway I understand that you feel that way and you have every right to do what you want with your blog. But think of the good you can do with it. Personally it was when I found your blog that I started learning about DP and going towards recovery, if it hadn't been for you I would still be a lot behind in my Road to Recovery.

So think of the good you do to people that come across to your blog.


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

AlexFromPT said:


> You actually achieved something great for all humans (srs) in case you didn't notice.


Yes. You actually HELPED a LOT (100?200?) people. Who can honestly say that he helped 200 people? I would be proud and not getting angry about some 14 year old troll


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## AlexFromPT (Jun 26, 2011)

Fearless is the sole reason i'm omw to recover. I can almost feel it coming. I'll never forget his blog or his jet li avatar. I'm dead serious lol . He taught me so many things.


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## retep (Mar 19, 2013)

To OP (and anyone else)
I'm happy to hear that another person found a way out of depersonalization.
But I would not be too hard on what you believe an error on Fearless's part. For the most part I think he is right about why people go into DP, but I think there are varying degrees of severity of the problem. When I say severity I am not speaking of the hell one is going through- to each their own hell is hell and there is no comparing those points. But when an individual goes into DP it is a "decision" they made that they could not cope with what they were dealing with and so they disassociated. 
Always the way out of it is through footsteps of regaining control of one's perspective of life. Some people have less of a good footing on than others to take certain steps- that is where the severity is most measured and once again I think it is relative and for the most part incomparable.
I think one comes out of DP when they sense it is safe to come out again, which does not always appear like a conscious decision.
But the bottom line is that people on this site, who are working through the confusion, anguish and despair need to find out why they got to that state in the first place- that is where the attachment theory comes in. Whether the OP wants to give credit for getting in touch with his attachment issues, or another way of putting it- his way of processing his stress and fears, is up to him, but I read in his post that is what he did. Working through this is not a straight and paved road- and getting in touch with yourself and out of your head is not necessarily going to be a "eureka!" moment. It is usually messy, and takes a little going backwards to go forwards. 
Yes, there are people who have just snapped out of it and it was just a matter of time, but within that time there are variables that cannot be described and measured- and the bottom line is that person who felt disconnected is now connected. Hopefully within that new freedom, one has figured out new healthy ways of coping with stress and fear that will not lead back to DP or some other poor coping mechanism.
Some peoples' trauma are more simple than others- not to mention how it was processed when it happened. This is not a judgement of any person's experience, it's just the way things go. But within that trauma the person felt, to a certain degree, unprotected and developed an unhealthy way to deal with that stress and fear by disconnecting from it. 
For those who struggle to find a footing and a way out of this mindset that is DP- the bottom line is getting in touch with all of yourself, not escaping your troubles by ignoring them because they appear to have no solution, because for every problem there is a solution. This is what the OP did and what Fearless seems to promote. Whether that means going back to the event or trauma that lead to this coping mechanism is up to the needs of the individual, but it is not bad advice to see that one created an unhealthy way of dealing with problems and where it might have come out of.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

retep said:


> To OP (and anyone else)
> I'm happy to hear that another person found a way out of depersonalization.
> But I would not be too hard on what you believe an error on Fearless's part. For the most part I think he is right about why people go into DP, but I think there are varying degrees of severity of the problem. When I say severity I am not speaking of the hell one is going through- to each their own hell is hell and there is no comparing those points. But when an individual goes into DP it is a "decision" they made that they could not cope with what they were dealing with and so they disassociated.
> Always the way out of it is through footsteps of regaining control of one's perspective of life. Some people have less of a good footing on than others to take certain steps- that is where the severity is most measured and once again I think it is relative and for the most part incomparable.
> ...


Well said dude, thank you. I'd like to point out that I don't think DP is a "conscious decision" but rather a natural evolutionary response in states of heightened anxiety (hopefully this video will explain what I'm talking about)






The conscious decision, I believe, is how a person reacts to it. What people need to understand is that feelings of transient DP can come from simple anxiety, and the personality type most common on here (highly introspective and intelligent) are much more likely to notice, and be terrified, by it - and keep it going. Though it isn't the only way DP comes up, I think that it MUST be acknowledged that this is a common generator of DPD and people need to do nothing more than face their fear of DP and whatever other fears get them into it. It is a self-analysis process, a USEFUL and rational one, that pulls people out 

We can all agree on that.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

Fearless said:


> I actually did, it's one of my worst personality traits. If I put my heart into something and get a spit in my face back, I fuck up the whole place and walk away without a second thought. I'm working on it, I already caused myself much pain with this. I'll probably put it back but not sure right now. In the meantime everybody can read those useful threads about iboga and brain chemistry.


Dude, Fearless, even as an admitted critic of yours I totally support your blog and your intentions. Just because I disagree with your logic doesn't mean I don't have mad respect for you. We can all agree that forceful positivity and facing of fears, regardless of the details, is the way to cure DP - what we all on here want to do. Looking at others' posts on the site, it's plain to see you've helped a ton of people with your blog, and with your tenacity and insistence I really would applaud your decision to keep the blog up.

Though your messages have attracted alot of retaliation, they've also helped many people recover, and ANYTHING that does that is worth pursuing. I'll stand by my belief that the emotional abuse trigger is not the only one, and insisting that anxiety sufferers who acquired DP were emotionally abused is going generate antagonistic responses from a lot of people - the majority of whom are retaliating in an irrational, troll-like fashion and it really looks like shit on everybody's part. Though I too disagree, I've read the stories and logic on both your blog and people's comments on it, and though I can't relate to any of it, it's undeniably inspirational and as far as I'm concerned you should keep it up, man.


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## seafoamwinterz (Aug 12, 2013)

I clicked with some things in Fearless' blog, but at this rate of DP, how I got it feels irrelevant because it's caused more problems, although I'm making progress.

I'm gonna stick with the positive attitude, future is bright route. I've had DP before and cured it that way. Both times were from me being a shitty swimmer lol. Water + me = trauma!

I know for a fact that these years in DP haven't always sucked, it really only does when I'm sleep deprived. I'm kind of in acceptance mode. I look at it as anxiety now too.


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## DP_P (Sep 10, 2012)

Huggy Bear said:


> Yeah, thank god, Mozart, Bach, Steve Jobs, Einstein, Picasso, et. al. were emotionally abused. Otherwise, we would be living in a pretty dull world (according to Fearless' theory).


I'm going to chip in an offer that I don't feel that it necessarily has to be about whether you actually were abused or neglected - it can also be about how you interpreted your experience as a child. My parents are super loving. My mom if anything has been overbearing with love. I'd argue that this gave me a low self-efficacy having not been able to learn from my own mistakes since I was usually overly protected from making them. My dad had a bit of a temper, but it was mainly frustration due to the fact that I was a boy and he expected me to do 'boy' stuff like play sports. I was an artistic child instead; so I always quit every sport my parents put me into. My dad never abused me. I don't believe his intention was to hurt me, but he got mad a couple times when I didn't want to go to a game. As a kid I interpreted the situation as meaning I am not good enough, or I am guilty of not being able to please my dad, when I really wanted to...What was truly traumatic for me wasn't the situation, but rather the frame I placed around it.

So, my point is that whether or not the physical conditions were out there to support this whole "trauma" theory - I'd argue that it has more to do with how you as a child may have responded and what believes you would have decided upon at that point. Many people go through trauma and don't get DP - maybe it's our capacity for caring and the guilt and shame that can bring that has something to do with it.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2013)

Hi Mom! I'm in a future locked thread. I didn't like this title so I read, errr skimmed, most of it.

Just replying to the topic title, really - if this forum didn't exist. No one would have a place to go.

It's not special or precious, it's just here, stop being (a) dick(s) and start talking and get better, move on and live, life. We only get one shot.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

administrator said:


> Hi Mom! I'm in a future locked thread. I didn't like this title so I read, errr skimmed, most of it.
> 
> Just replying to the topic title, really - if this forum didn't exist. No one would have a place to go.
> 
> It's not special or precious, it's just here, stop being (a) dick(s) and start talking and get better, move on and live, life. We only get one shot.


OP here. Sorry about the bluntness of the title, I was referring to the negative, hopeless attitude toward DP that much of this forum is composed of - which I think drags people down into further suffering - I wanted to contradict that with a post that got people's attention - to help more of them achieve a full recovery. The mission of this forum - to help people through DP and give them a place to find reassurance - is great and I respect every bit of it. The moving on and living life piece is key and I'm grateful you brought that up as well - and speaking of moving on, it's fine with me if you lock this thread, I think the effectiveness of any debate on here is long gone.


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2013)

No locks. Moving on is more important. Thank you for replying. I thought of it but didn't expect it. Awesome.


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## orca (Nov 21, 2011)

Well fucking said, it's so true.


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## seafoamwaves (Sep 20, 2013)

Out of all the great advice on this forum this is still the most fun to read.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

I really find it hard to take the advice of a 15 year old seriously. It's not that I think 15 year olds don't have anything to offer or some other antiquated view of teenagers, but to be honest mate, at 15 you haven't really done shit, you just think you know it all, I was the same at 15, but now at 22 I can look back and be objective about it. You will go through many different life experiences before your identity stabilises somewhat, so really your not in a place to give advice..

That comes across harsh I know, but I don't mean it that way.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2013)

Midnight said:


> I really find it hard to take the advice of a 15 year old seriously. It's not that I think 15 year olds don't have anything to offer or some other antiquated view of teenagers, but to be honest mate, at 15 you haven't really done shit, you just think you know it all, I was the same at 15, but now at 22 I can look back and be objective about it.


I've been 15, 22 and now at 32, I can see the OP's side. I was just as FIERCE at his age, That said - this site was started when he was 2-3 years old and I've seen a ton come through here. From the sound, interesting, radical...to the ridiculous.

Moving away from an admin role and speaking personally, I don't see the site as "BS" as my Wife used it to get better and about "500" others have done the same.

Talking, reading, sharing and listening helps you move on and progress in life. This is why this place still exists even after my Wife "no longer needs it".

To me, it's an easy yet very important thing that I give some of my focus too while I'm here.

Bottom line: No one knows shit but we TRY to learn, we're all floating on a rock flying through the cosmos trying to find our own way.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

It's a great forum and the only resource on the internet where I have been able to try and describe my experiences without people thinking I was simply depressed or something... so I really appreciate it. Good work.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

Midnight said:


> I really find it hard to take the advice of a 15 year old seriously. It's not that I think 15 year olds don't have anything to offer or some other antiquated view of teenagers, but to be honest mate, at 15 you haven't really done shit, you just think you know it all, I was the same at 15, but now at 22 I can look back and be objective about it. You will go through many different life experiences before your identity stabilises somewhat, so really your not in a place to give advice..
> 
> That comes across harsh I know, but I don't mean it that way.


I don't take it harshly at all, I see your point man and I don't want to try and be somebody I'm not yet. I've still got a huge life with far more ahead of me than behind me. All I wanted to do here was share how I got out, and I felt I had to tell it in a radical fashion to hammer the points down that I wanted to. In short, my advice is up here, and if it helps people, great, and if they can't take it from someone my age or it simply doesn't work for them, that's totally okay by me. My only goal is to help.


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

administrator said:


> I've been 15, 22 and now at 32, I can see the OP's side. I was just as FIERCE at his age, That said - this site was started when he was 2-3 years old and I've seen a ton come through here. From the sound, interesting, radical...to the ridiculous.
> 
> Moving away from an admin role and speaking personally, I don't see the site as "BS" as my Wife used it to get better and about "500" others have done the same.
> 
> ...


Well said. I agree one hundred percent, and in retrospect, I probably should have titled this post differently. The forum itself - the mission, the place to express feelings about DP and get reassurance/advice - is lifesaving for just about every sufferer at one point or another. Myself included. I'm so grateful it exists and Dp'd people have a place to go.

My goal with this post was to debunk and overthrow the brash, hopeless negativity that seems to be rampant on here, constantly reinforcing that people can't recover, that Dp's the worst thing on earth, etc. People can and do recover all the time, and I found that a positive attitude is the most important factor.


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## seafoamwaves (Sep 20, 2013)

I think this post is a great way to recover from DP, yet I think Fearless' blog is a great way to understand how people got DP.


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## The Goat (Feb 23, 2010)

I get what you're saying. Complaining doesn't necessarily help, but you were 14 and dealt with this for nine months. Try dealing with it for nearly a decade. Some people need to vent about how difficult it is and commiserate with people in similar situations. Your life has barely begun. People who are in the twenties or thirties are often struggling to keep a job or maintain meaningful relationships because of this disorder and this may not have impacted you as severely as it has others.


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