# Migraine and depersonalization disorder



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I just came across this article when doing a depersonalization search. I thought some people might be interested.

Migraine and depersonalization disorder
CM Cahill; KC Murphy
Cephalalgia, August 2004, vol. 24, no. 8, pp. 686-687(2) 
Blackwell Publishing

It can be ordered at:

http://www.ingenta.com/isis/searching/A ... 5895808980


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I just came across this article when doing a depersonalization search. I thought some people might be interested.

Migraine and depersonalization disorder
CM Cahill; KC Murphy
Cephalalgia, August 2004, vol. 24, no. 8, pp. 686-687(2) 
Blackwell Publishing

It can be ordered at:

http://www.ingenta.com/isis/searching/A ... 5895808980


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2004)

I have access to it, if anyone is interested just PM your email... I may have access to other full abstracts, just tell me which one I'll see if I can have access to it.


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## gem (Aug 10, 2004)

Depersonalization and migrainne go hand in hand. Many people who suffer with dp/dr suffer with migrainne. It can come in the form as an aura, you can it with a headache or without. There are many symptoms from the headache and you do not always have to have the headache. I suffer with migrainne headaches and I know the dp is worse when my headache is coming on. The specialist I was seeing said it would be interesting to see if a migrainne drug was used if it would help the dp. I have not tried it yet because I get anxious about trying new things.

gem.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2004)

i posted a subject about migrains recently and got zero response, i was recently diagnosed with migrains and i didnt realize that i was having them. it would have been nice to have gotten some feedback from people who already knew that dp/dr had been linked to migraines.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2004)

I do have migraines with and without headache, my sister has them as well.

I do have another type of migraine, around my eyes that I have the impression continue through the optical nerves or something. Does anyone have them as well? It has reduced in intensity with the dp very considerably with the use of Purinethol, the immunosupressors I am talking about.

My depersonalization has not been caused from drug, neither my sister dp/dr.

Other migraines not really linked with the headaches happens with light types such as fluorescents, movements etc... those as well have been reduced in intensity. This keep me wondering, if dp may not be auto-immune by nature... afterall, many psychiatric conditions are suspected to be auto-immune, even schizophrenia. There may be genetic predispositions and enviromental factors causing the white blood cells to attack, and as a result, an inflammatory reaction follows.

This may sound far fetched... but there is no any other thing that could explain why I became sudently better after taking this drug when I had dp symptoms for a decade or so.

Beside that, there are some beliefs that some kind of migraines could be as well an inflammatory reaction, suggesting an auto-immune causes as well. Don't know.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

This reminded me of the IoP study:

*J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2002 Spring;14(2):141-54.*

*The spectrum of organic depersonalization: a review plus four new cases.*
*Lambert MV, Sierra M, Phillips ML, David AS.

Depersonalisation Research Unit of the Division of Psychological Medicine, Institute of Psychiatry, London.*

"Depersonalization and derealization are commonly reported in the general population as a response to stress. The symptoms have also been described in patients with a primary psychiatric or organic diagnosis, where their secondary status precludes a DSM-IV diagnosis of depersonalization disorder.

The authors present 4 new cases of depersonalization in patients with an underlying organic condition, along with 47 cases from the literature in which the available information permits diagnosis of organic depersonalization. Information from case series documenting depersonalization in the context of medical illnesses is also presented and the underlying etiology discussed.

*Epilepsy and migraine appear to be the disorders most commonly associated with depersonalization. Left-sided temporal lobe dysfunction and anxiety are suggested as factors in the development of depersonalization; however, further studies are needed to determine the relationship. The introduction to the DSM-IV of an organic subtype of depersonalization disorder would facilitate research in this area."*

This takes me back to my endless pondering that DP is being "stuck in an aura" of a migraine or a seizure. I have neither epilepsy nor migraine. This is also where I start wondering about the connection DP can have (but doesn't necessarily have) w/all mental illnesses.

If one thing goes awry in the brain it makes sense it would affect a variety of functions.

I do know two other members of the board who have occular sp? migraines. (Wherein they see flashing lights/patterns in their vision, spinning wheels, etc.)

D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

*Subtype* is the key word here. I am certain that many of us have a common *symptom*, but not a common *disorder or cause* for the symptom. Many here though have anxiety. I know I have anxiety and depression.

And sometimes I do wonder... where the Hell does the DP fit in. But it is clear when my anxiety increases my DP/DR increase like HELL. Less anxiety, less severe DP/DR. And I have far fewer "random moments" of the DP/DR "coming out of nowhere" after being on meds, especially Lamictal added to my Celexa/Klonopin.

Go figure.
Stumped D


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## rob (Aug 22, 2004)

I had ocular megraines and transient feelings of derealisation when I was a teenager before my dp started.

After my dp started - age 19 - I seemed to have an almost perpetual headache. I found that my ability to handle toxins such as cigarettes and alcohol was much reduced - more hangovers, worse hangovers. I found that my ability to handle other illnesses like colds and flu was also much reduced - I felt much more ill than pre-dp. I likened my dp to an extreme form of the detachment I used to feel as a child when I had flu or a bug.

After my dp started I started to get many more megraines, much more severe than before.

I get ocular megraines (revolving prism/circular saw expanding to fill my field of vision together with blindspots of nothingness and heightened dp/dr) and when the ocular phase ends I get a blinding headache but my dp seems to vanish temporarily whilst I have the headache. Sometimes I feel very sick but have never actually been sick.

My megraines are often brought on by common triggers - stress, lack of sleep, over exertion, red wine, port, yeasty beer (real ale), alcohol generally, cheese, chocolate, milk, eggs, sometimes caffeine if drinking a lot of coffee when tired. I am much more susceptible to these triggers than I was before my dp.

Sometimes I think that my dp/dr is a permanent low level megraine - a seizure that has been arrested in its tracks but not eliminated.

Whilst taking Lamotrigine over a couple of years I did not experience a single megraine.

I now avoid all of the above triggers most of the time and drink alcohol only in strict moderation (apart from the odd night out which I always regret. I rarely get megraines and avoidance reduces my dp/dr.

I understand that Propranalol, a beta blocker, is prescribed for daily consumption and is effective in preventing megraine attacks. I was advised not to take this with klonopin for fear of lowering my blood pressure too much - but it is something I will try again in the future.

In recent times when I have had a cluster of ocular megraines I have found that drinking about two pints of water as soon as the visual disturbance starts will actually stop a megraine or at least delay its onset. This has worked for me on 5 out of 5 occasions I have tried it - but you have to glug that water down to dilute whatever it is in your stomach that is upsetting your head.

There is a connection between megraine and dp/dr which has been written about several times before on this board - but I suspect that the relationship is both complex and ill-understood. But there are clues here and I for one would be interested to know how many people were megraine sufferers before they got dp/dr - might put up a poll on this question.

best

rob x


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2004)

I have occular migraines - not often, maybe once a year, or twice at most. They're no better or worse than when I had dp/dr and anxiety...not sure what connection is, but wanted to "out" myself, grin....as one of the people Dreamer knows who has occular m's.

J


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I feel like my DR ties into the symptoms of an occular migraine. And then once every few years I get blind spots which last for about an hour. When I was a teenager I use to get a lot of anxiety about the aura of a migraine and then subsequently get very ill, vomiting, etc. I feel like in my case the occular migraine and derealization are only different manifestations of a similar process. I learned when I was a teenager to just not panic about the migraine because I knew if I did it would get worse. However, if I just let it be, it would clear up somewhat quickly. Interesting how panicking about DP makes it worse as well. I wonder if some people get migraines for the same reason they get DP and DR. The strange thing I have noticed with my occular migraine is that I am usually in a really good mood right before the aura appears. Anyone else?


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

rob said:


> I for one would be interested to know how many people were megraine sufferers before they got dp/dr - might put up a poll on this question.


I started getting migraines about 6 months to a year after my DP/DR started. They don't bother me much now. Unless the DR is related.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

As I've said, I've (thank God) never had a migraine or ocular migraine, however what fascinates me as well is the "dizzyness, feeling "off-balance", that preceded the serious wave of DP/DR that hit me in 8th grade... the beginning of the chronic DP/DR.

We have a number of similar neurological conditions that seem to come together here... the dizziness (many variations thereof -- which some attribute to a vestibular disturbanc), and the migraine connection.

Those with chronic DP/DR... those who've had it for years without ANY respite... I again wonder if this isn't some permanent (God forbid) shift in consciousness.... but it is interesting that many others don't have chronic DP/DR, but bouts related to panic attacks, OCD, etc.

I don't think we all fit into any one group.

Yes rob, please put up your new poll. I deleted the old one that you said didn't come out properly.

Best,
D


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