# Does God Exist?



## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

Check this out.
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CN-ku9OPrJwCFc5L5QodPnlYkA


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## septimus (Jun 1, 2010)

All that article did was give me a summary on Earth, water, and my brain. My brain processes the texture of my keyboard? Holy fuck, God _must_ be real!
No.

If I learned one thing from The Da Vinci Code (aka the steaming turd Dan Brown squeezed out) it's that Christianity puts males on a completely different wavelength, where's the harmony? Lets call the cause of the Big Bang... God. Lets make it a man. Wanna know why he's a human man? Because I'm a human man and I love myselffff.

It's ok to believe, I mean, it's a human thing. I'm not going to convince you that The Almighty Lord is a fairytale, and despite how disrespectful this post is, I admire that people still have that kind of faith.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

To quote directly from the article "But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon."

That is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO true. I've had SO many athiests try to PROVE that God isn't real and so many Christians try to prove that God is. Guess what, athiests can't PROVE that God isn't real anymore than Christians can PROVE that God is. It exactly is a faith thing. A personal experience thing.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

That statement about if you already made up your mind then all evidence against something would be useless is kinda silly in a way. They can be shown direct evidence. Hell put them in an astronaut suit and fly them to the moon and see what they say. If they were really curious about it they would go. It's just the stubborness of the human mind that closes their eyes to direct, scientific evidence.

But what is evidence? Looking at the earth today and the wondrous design and workings of the human body, it didn't happen overnight. It took EONS to get this way. Given enuff time change is inevitable and improvements will be made. Of course not everything is perfect about the human body or brain. Just look at all the genetic diseases that people have to suffer with today like MS, cancer, hair loss, etc etc. These are mistakes that shouldn't have never been designed. Doctors are basically trying to correct god's mistakes thru science.

The earth is remarkable that is so life sustaining, but then they are finding "earth-like" planets more and more in the universe. It's just lucky that it's the right distance away from the sun. And over billions of years it had lots of time to change to the paradise it is now. But it wasn't a paradise all the time. Countless ice-ages have ravaged it...freezing and starving animals in it's wake. Volcanos polluted the atmosphere with deadly toxins. Earthquakes continue to kill thousands unpredictably. Did god reaaaally have to make the earth with moving tectonic plates and moltan lava that could cause all this shit? Couldn't there be a different, more "peaceful" design to the earth? Like making it out of playdough or something? LOL
I like the mixing of the big bang and religion. The "Let there be light" references of
genesis. But really the light came at the end of god making the earth and all it's life forms according to genesis. Plus he had to wait until everything cooled sufficiently after that humongous explosion to start manipulating it and forming our present day life forms.

God is peace and love. But don't get him angry like the egyptians did. Sending the angel of death to kill all the first born isn't a very nice thing to do. And it surprises me a little that the jews had to mark the door with lambs blood so the angel didn't kill them. Couldn't the angel of death tell who was an egyptian and who was a jew? He knew who was the first born and who wasn't, right? That struck me as a little strange.

Crap I could go on and on about religion and how it doesn't quite gel with logic.

Ok one more thing....the way jesus says that only thru him that you can come unto god. Does that mean that jews and muslims and every darn non-christian religion in the world is screwed? If you take those words literally then it does. Kinda hard to think that god would reject jews from heaven, but those words make it pretty clear. I'm still a little baffled that god sent jesus in the first place. Couldn't god show up in person like he'd done all thru the old testament? Helping moses escape the egyptians took a lot of up close and personal attention and was witness by everyone there. Couldn't he still be making special guest appearances instead of sending a clone of himself in human form? BTW...if that wasn't arm twisting the egyptians into believing in god then I don't know what is lol.

It's late and I have babbled long enuff.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

flat said:


> the way jesus says that only thru him that you can come unto god. Does that mean that jews and muslims and every darn non-christian religion in the world is screwed? If you take those words literally then it does.


I never experienced God for myself and got the proof I needed until I went out on a limb tried it Jesus' way.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

tinyfairypeople said:


> I've had SO many athiests try to PROVE that God isn't real and so many Christians try to prove that God is. Guess what, athiests can't PROVE that God isn't real anymore than Christians can PROVE that God is. It exactly is a faith thing. A personal experience thing.


I love you. There are 6,000,000,000 + people in this world every single one unique, not two alike. Every single person thinks differently, processes information differently, and experiences life differently. Why then would everyone believe the same exact thing? If everyone believed in the exact same thing no one would be unique.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Why then would everyone believe the same exact thing? If everyone believed in the exact same thing no one would be unique.


Everyone can't. But I'm called _at least_ to _try_ to help people see what I, and so many others have.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

There is just as much evidence to prove the existence of Allah. Why not believe in that one?


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

never_giving_up said:


> There is just as much evidence to prove the existence of Allah. Why not believe in that one?


Of course there is, I won't say why though. Well, maybe a hint, _spirits_, good or _bad_ are not stupid. They are masters of influence. And the koran' is almost exactley like the Bible. The muslim faith stems from Ishmael, who was the son of Abraham he made with his housekeeper who became angry that he didn't get the birthright. The Jewish, and later after Jesus' death, the Christian faith stems from Isaac, the son that God promised Abraham that he had with his wife Sarah who did get the birthright. That is what the battle has been about all this time. Its not just about land.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Universal love and respect and kindness and understanding is all we need. And that comes from within all of us.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Inzom said:


> Universal love and respect and kindness and understanding is all we need. And that comes from within all of us.


respect. good post.


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## Claymore (Jun 13, 2009)

Inzom said:


>


He wants to prevent evil but He can't make us (the chaotic race that has been shedding blood and wreaking havoc on this planet for thousands of years) do the right thing, that is why its called free will. There is no universal respect, love, or understanding except for those who have the one who IS universal respect, love, and understanding living within them, and he can't make that choice for you either. Abraham got impatient and had a son with his housekeeper instead of trusting God and waiting for the son he promised them. God didn't want him to do that, but He couldn't make him not do it either. If He is really God He could right? He could do anything He wants!







NO!!! When He created us He made a vow not to take away our free will, if He took it, He would be breaking a vow which is impossible for for someone sinless to do. And Chris, we've done this a thousand times and it never gets either of us anywhere, you know that.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

God makes a promise to not interfere with free will. So if a person wants to be nasty god will stand back and watch and shake his head but not intervene. I can handle that. But when you tie in the future to free will it gets more complicated. Why would god even promise abraham a son sometime in the future? Isn't that "meddling" with free will? Could it have been possible that abraham, getting annoyed with his wife for not producing, decided to leave his wife and marry his housekeeper? He probably was tempted to. Heck, I'd be tempted to too. Free will would allow for that option to happen, would it not? And god would say "Abraham! What the hell are you doing running away with your housekeeper? What about the son I promised you with sarah?" (I have a flair for the dramatic lol) And god would only be able to stand and watch his plans for the birth of his son go down the drain since isaac wouldn't have been born. But god had already determined that abraham would have a son "sometime in the future" with his wife sarah...whether abraham liked it or not. So really, god shouldn't have been surprised or mad at abraham's free will for having ishmael cuz god knew that abraham would still have isaac. Abraham really couldn't have gone wrong since it was his destiny in the end.

Free will and the future never made good bedfellows in my opinion.

Another example. When the second-coming comes then god...well actually jesus with a flaming sword and riding a white horse...will destroy all evil and peace will reign for a thousand years if I'm not mistaken. Isn't that interfering with the free will of all the no-good-niks who are waging war and doing unchristian-like things at that moment? It's one thing to punish someone for his free will AFTER they have died by not letting them into heaven...but to stop evil in its tracks here on earth goes against god's promise not to intervene in anyone's free will...ever.

Unless, maybe his promise comes with a "best before" date.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

That's the problem with christianity as I see it, it's pretty much anything goes, nothing makes sense, but they are always right.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

No offense to my christian friends


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> That's the problem with christianity as I see it, it's pretty much anything goes, nothing makes sense, but they are always right.


Can you elaborate on what you mean?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Sure... for example there is a verse in the Bible that says, "no one will be given beyond what they can bear." If that were true people wouldn't commit suicide, also most of us here can relate to being given beyond what they can bear. Also the Bible says that God is love, peace, all those "good" qualities but he also makes people suffer in hell for eternity? Man wrote the Bible but it's "God's Word". I can't trust that everything that's written in the Bible was truly inspired by God and not just something that man wrote. Also the Bible has gone through translation so many times, how is it possible that it's still in it's purest translation? Jesus dies and comes back to life, I just have a hard time accepting that. If that were true then how do we know anything is really what it is. For me personally it doesn't make sense, if I were to believe in God I feel like I'd be lying to myself. If there is a God I think he would want me to follow my heart and be true to myself. One more thing if we go to heaven, a perfect place when we die, just for believing why not kill ourselves now?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Again, I really don't mean to be rude I'm just explaining my thoughts. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I was christian for 19 years. Maybe something shifted in my brain because I look back now and am like, "wow how did I really believe that?"


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Again, I really don't mean to be rude I'm just explaining my thoughts. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I was christian for 19 years. Maybe something shifted in my brain because I look back now and am like, "wow how did I really believe that?"


No, you didn't offend. First of all, the bible doesn't say anywhere that God will not give you more than you can handle. That is something that people have taken from a verse in the bible, twisted it, and called it doctrine. The verse says that God will not tempt you beyond what you can be tempted. The thing with the bible is that you cannot look at a single verse at face value. You have to look at the original hebrew and greek meanings of the words, the time period and culture in which the passage was written, and what the overall book is about. It is my understanding that this passage was surrounding a specific person in a specific circumstance and wasn't meant as a blanket statement.

I will reply to the rest tomorrow. I am exhausted right now and need to go to bed. Night.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

The legendary Doug Stanhope says it best.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Sure... for example there is a verse in the Bible that says, "no one will be given beyond what they can bear." If that were true people wouldn't commit suicide, also most of us here can relate to being given beyond what they can bear. Also the Bible says that God is love, peace, all those "good" qualities but he also makes people suffer in hell for eternity? Man wrote the Bible but it's "God's Word". I can't trust that everything that's written in the Bible was truly inspired by God and not just something that man wrote. Also the Bible has gone through translation so many times, how is it possible that it's still in it's purest translation? Jesus dies and comes back to life, I just have a hard time accepting that. If that were true then how do we know anything is really what it is. For me personally it doesn't make sense, if I were to believe in God I feel like I'd be lying to myself. If there is a God I think he would want me to follow my heart and be true to myself. One more thing if we go to heaven, a perfect place when we die, just for believing why not kill ourselves now?


Kenny,

I respect your inquiring & questioning mind. But, have you considered God being real and yet also removed from any doctrine/religion? You don't even have to use the word God, how about just something like Divinity? What are your thoughts?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Ya. I think there could be. I just don't know.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

David has a point. I also would like to express what Kenny said earlier in this thread (that rhymed whoo) That I do not wish to offend or show disrespect. We are all equal no matter what.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

Inzom said:


> David has a point. I also would like to express what Kenny said earlier in this thread (that rhymed whoo) That I do not wish to offend or show disrespect. We are all equal no matter what.


That's respectful of you guys. I have actually offended somebody here over Religion. I didn't mean to but it just came out. So I'm sorry for that. Religion is such a tricky/heavy subject and can lead to arguments and debates really as soon as the conversation is started. It shows good of this community when we can all get along even in the more controversial subjects. Peace & Love Peeps.


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## Sleepwalker (Dec 4, 2008)

Inzom said:


> Universal love and respect and kindness and understanding is all we need. And that comes from within all of us.


Interesting questions indeed and valid ones.
Can we entertain the possibility that "he is both willing and able" but will defer remedial action until later for a greater purpose?
In that case, one might rightly ask: what greater purpose could there possibly be than the suffering of humankind?
Suppose human suffering is only temporary and the condition will be returned by God to it's pristine state in due time and that all of us have an opportunity for a fresh start? 
Of course, many questions arise out of this proposition.
Still, I am throwing these suppositions out because of what is written in the scriptures:

_"And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes and death will be no more; neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore; the former things have passed away"-Revelation 21: 4._
_
_
The context here apparently refers to the human creation, residents of earth and not some other entity.
The object of all the blessings, according to the passage just preceding it is *"mankind"* (Verse 3, that is)

....just some food for thought.


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## Future Nihilist (Dec 2, 2010)

I've studied this question intensely for about 3 years now so I know first and foremost to say that the existence of a "personal" god will never be proven or disproven. That doesn't mean however that questioning his existence has no value in our lives. The more important question however is about the necessity and intrinsic value of religion.

- Faith requires faith. If you don't believe in faith then you can have no faith in belief. - What?








- Bad men will always do bad things, but it takes religious belief for a good man to justify his bad actions
- If jesus knew he would rise again and sit at the right hand of god and serve as a member of the holy trinity, I'd hardly call that a sacrifice
- eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge and you will be like god knowing right from wrong. I guess I'm like god then
- Morality has been logically explained as a necessary part of evolution. You can't cherry pick which moral teachings from which holy book you want to adhere to and which you don't.
- The idea of a personal god is only about 100 years old anyway, why adhere to a religion with such drastic alterations to it's dogma? Clearly religion is based on the whims of man.
- If god created man simply to worship and amuse him, why should I not have a rebellious slave mentality towards this abusive slave master?
- "What do you have to lose?" Pascal asks. My dignity, reason, and moral intellect that's what. Besides I accept god on my death bed and still gain all the perks, while living this life in freedom.
- But most of all, belief in an afterlife is unavoidably a reason to belittle the one you currently have. Why isn't this life enough for you?

These of course are not the only reasonable questions I ask myself. I have no opposition to your personal beliefs as long as they don't pick my pocket or knock on my door. Religion has as one of it's key tenants however to spread the word and convert as many as possible. The more people share your beliefs the less you crazy for believing them. A casual stroll through the insane asylum shows that faith doesn't beget reward.


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