# Schizophrenia



## 2deepathinker

I am wondering if there is anyone who also been diagnosed with schizophrenia alongside of anxiety and DP? If so, can you please tell me about your schizophrenia? How did it start for you? Was it gradual, or did it come on quickly? Thanks for your help.


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## nix

2deepathinker said:


> I am wondering if there is anyone who also been diagnosed with schizophrenia alongside of anxiety and DP? If so, can you please tell me about your schizophrenia? How did it start for you? Was it gradual, or did it come on quickly? Thanks for your help.


If anyone along with schizophrenia has also DP/DR as one of many symptoms, he is for sure not on this board. Schizophrenic people are actualy true lunatics. Schizohrenic people don't know that they are crazy and they don't question their symptoms. 
DP/DR as a standalone condition doesn't have anything in common with schizophrenia and it can't turn into schizophrenia. 
DP/DR is only a symptom of tired mind and anxiety. 
You don't have schizophrenia and you will never have it. 
Schizophrenia is also congenital disease. If you don't have in your family schizophrenia there are actualy no chance for you to get it. Schizophrenia also starts at younger age (cca when people are 15 years old). If it starts when you're older, predictions are better then. 
My whole family, both on sides of father and mother never had anyone with mental diseases, so chances for me to have schizophrenia are probably impossible. 
Also, the most common symptoms of schizophrenic people are audio and video hallucinations. They are also paranoid and they most of the time think that CIA is spying on them, that somebody wants to poison their food etc. 
But the most important thing is that they actualy BELIEVE in everything they see or hear. They live in some parallel world and they do believe that world is real. 
Even if you have any hallucinations as healthy person, you would know that what you see isn't actualy there. Schizophrenic person doesn't have that insight. They truly think that hallucinations are real. That is true and progressive disease of brain. DP/DR is connected to anxiety and that is mostly connected to nervous system, not to any kind of brain disease.
You don't have, you can't have and you will never have schizophrenia.


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## York

There are people on this board _with_ schizophrenia _and DP_, and I think it's very thoughtless of you to describe people diagnosed with this the way you do. If you are not sure what the symptoms of schizophrenia is, please educate yourself before you misinform people, and also scare people, as I am sure you do with some of your statements.

Dp/dr are as many of you know a common symptom in most psychiatric conditions, that does however not mean you have anything other than anxiety or depression (or STRESS for that matter), if you experience dp symptoms.

Many people experiencing some level of depersonalization are scared it's a sign of more severe mental illness. I think reading about things like schizophrenia, or even better, talking to someone with this diagnosis helps a lot in relieving the fear you might have.

When it comes to schizophrenia people for some reason thinks it's a life sentence, when in fact two thirds recover from it. I've even heard the recovery-rate was higher before the introduction of psychiatric drugs, and still is this high in 3rd world countries.

There's a book out now, in Norwegian unfortunately, written by a former schizophrenia sufferer, who is now a psychologist. I watched her on t.v, and she said she felt an obligation to tell her story of recovery as so many recovering from schizophrenia didn't.
She described a lot of symptoms sounding like dp (in fact I thought that was what she was talking about when I first turned on my t.v), and also the more commonly known symptoms of psychosis. Most important it was never any doubt she was still "there" experiencing all of this, she was not a "raving lunatic", and by working hard at solving her emotional problems she recovered in her thirties.


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## York

I just have to add that if you ARE diagnosed as having schizophrenia it is not a "progressive brain disease"! It is actually common for the symptoms to be at their worst in your 20's and get better as you approach your 30's and 40's.


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## nix

So, I have an opinion that you don't know much about schizophrenia, but OK.. you have right to your own opinion. 
I read many articles where schizophrenia isn't described like anything "mild" like DP is. Schizophrenia can be treated sucesfuly with pills, but from what I know is that schizophrenic people must take pills for the whole life, because schizophrenia mostly came back.

Sorry, but thing that scare people the most is connecting DP/DR with schizophrenia. It is one of many symptoms of schizophrenia, but as a standalone condition DP does not have anything with schizophrenia.
Also people with epilepsy most of the time before they have an epilepsy attack have feeling of derealization, but that does not mean that people on this board suffer from epilepsy or that there is more than 0,001% of people who will probably have epilepsy with DR.

And yes, schizophrenia is brain disease when something is wrong with chemistry in brain. When you have only DP/DR, there is actualy nothing wrong with chemistry in brain, because it is connected with anxiety and with nervous system. 
When you have schizophrenia your brain if you don't treat it becomes damaged because you start to lose gray matter in brain. With only DP you will never lose gray matter.. actualy, there is nothing to lose with DP, only white matter if you have lyme borreliosis, but even with LB, you probably wont lose white matter in brain.

Schizophrenia IS serious brain disease and if you don't agree with me, so you could also educate yourself:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/disease.htm

They also say for sch. sometimes that is "cancer of the soul".

Even to compare schizophrenia with DP/DR is truly stupid.


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## flat

It's one of those things that you'll never know for sure. There are no tests or markers for schizophrenia. Schizophrenia symptoms can be broken down into two catagories: the positive symptoms and the negative symptoms. The positive symptoms make schizophrenia more easy to diagnose cuz it stands out more, like hearing voices or seeing hallucinations or paranoia. The negative symptoms are mostly cognitive like loss of emotion and motivation (flattened effect), loss of the desire to talk (allogia) and changes in perception. The positive symptoms respond better to medication than the negative symptoms. Schizophrenia looks more and more like a genetic disease but it could probably skip generations like other genetic diseases or just not get triggered by the right set of conditions. However recent studies are suggesting that pot can trigger schizophrenic symptoms in some people if you are genetically predisposed to it.

Dp/dr does sound a lot like the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. And some people just get negative symptoms but not the positive symptoms and vice versa. But since dp/dr is also symptomatic of depression and bi-polar and just plain old anxiety, it really is hard to pinpoint it to a specific ailment. That's why so much experimentation is done when a doctor tries different drugs on you. They're not really sure what you have either.

But it really doesn't matter what name you give it or how it's catagorized. The main thing is to keep fighting and look for the cure. It's out there somewhere.


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## nix

Once again, comparing schizophrenia with DP/DR is simply stupid and it only scares people with DP/DR. 
There is not any psychiatrist in this world that will ever tell you that DP/DR is probably sign of schizophrenia and it will also tell you that DP/DR can NEVER lead to anything worse than DP/DR itself. 
If any psychiatrist ever tells you that you might have schizophrenia, because of DP/DR symptoms, that psychiatrist is an idiot- nothing more and nothing less.


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## 2deepathinker

Thank you for your posts. I contacted the doctor today. His clinician called me. She had also seen me when I came in for a diagnosis. She said it is part of my anxiety that I am so worried about schizophrenia. Maybe she is right, but like Flat said..there is no test for schizophrenia to know for sure, so that makes it scary.

The clinician said I should look into getting cognitive behavioral therapy for my fears. She also said that because they work with a lot of schizophrenic patients, then it is like night and day how I am. I can only hope.

It is the DP/DR that kills me and makes me feel so crazy, and really doubt my sanity.

It is a relief to know that schizophrenic patients can find recovery as well. I have heard positive stories like what York described. How wonderful!


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## nix

2deepathinker said:


> Thank you for your posts. I contacted the doctor today. His clinician called me. She had also seen me when I came in for a diagnosis. She said it is part of my anxiety that I am so worried about schizophrenia. Maybe she is right, but like Flat said..there is no test for schizophrenia to know for sure, so that makes it scary.
> 
> The clinician said I should look into getting cognitive behavioral therapy for my fears. She also said that because they work with a lot of schizophrenic patients, then it is like night and day how I am. I can only hope.
> 
> It is the DP/DR that kills me and makes me feel so crazy, and really doubt my sanity.
> 
> It is a relief to know that schizophrenic patients can find recovery as well. I have heard positive stories like what York described. How wonderful!


Please, don't read crap form this board and don't believe it. Trust to your doctor. Schizophrenic people are never worried about their schizophrenia. Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T KNOW THEY ARE GOING CRAZY. 
It's only your fear playing with your mind. Your doctor said it's anxiety and IT IS ANXIETY. 
Trust me that today doctors know already for sure what schizophrenia is and even more they know WHAT SCHIZOPHRENIA ISN'T. 
Don't feed yourself with nonsense and stupid fears. Those ignorance that some members on this board are spreading is only feeding even more your fears and it doesn't surprise me that many of them are screwed for years only because they believe in the worst and most impossible scenarios and they are feeding in circles their anxiety over and over and over again. 
Once again- trust to your doctor! 
Everybody with DP/DR thinks he's going crazy, but whenever you think that you are going crazy, when you have insight in that how you feel is "wrong", when you feel so scared because of your condition, then FOR SURE it is not schizophrenia.

You don't need to trust me, you don't need to trust to anyone on this board, but trust to your doctor, because doctors know what schizophrenia is and what it isn't and they know that you don't have schizophrenia and that is one and the only truth. END OF STORY!


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## Guest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BclJ8rHZMvo&feature=related

All the misconceptions about schzophrenia here are pretty awful. See the YouTube Video above of Elyn Saks, attorney, law professor, mental health advocate who also has schizophrenia, speak about the stigma. Someone here summed this up re: referencing individuals with schizophrenia as "out of their minds." That is ridiculous. It is a very serious disorder, but as with all mental illness there are people on a spectrum to those who once properly treated are very high functioning to very low-functioning.

Look at the above video of a woman with schizophrenia, who notes she is far from alone in being high functioning, but who had to keep her illness a secret because of the stigma.

I have examples of others. This is introduced by Joey Pantoliano, actor with clinical depression.

Also, I encourage people to check out "No Kidding, Me Too!" -- Joey's anti-stigma group.

I think it was York? sorry, who noted there are a number of people on this board who have schizophrenia and are high functioning.

This really makes me angry. I have more links to articles on high-functioning individuals with schizophrenia and current research on what is happening in the brains of such individuals. It is a MEDICAL NEUROLOGICAL disorder affecting cognition, mood, etc.

-------------------
PLEASE WATCH THIS VERY BRIEF AWARD ACCEPTANCE SPEECH BY A PROFESSOR OF LAW WHO HAS SCHIZOPHRENIA. YES SHE TAKES MEDICATION AND CONTINUES THERAPY. BUT GUESS IF YOU CAN TELL SHE HAS THIS DISORDER AND TELL ME IF SHE IS "ACTING LIKE A LUNATIC" OR WHATEVER SOMEONE SAID. IGNORANCE IS BLISS I GUESS.

Sorry, didn't mean to yell


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## Guest

_*#1. Please read what York has written. The woman has some sense!*_

Then: Read about:

An extraordinary man ...
Schizophrenia gripped the mind of Frederick Frese in the usual fashion, with an abrupt psychotic break in his early twenties that felt like terrifying insight.
Now a prominent clinical psychologist and mental health advocate, who is still afflicted by his field's most mysterious delusional pathology, Dr. Frese was then a U.S. Marine captain with an advanced math and science education, fluent in Japanese, and assigned to guard nuclear weapons at the Jacksonville, Fla., naval base.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2732707#ixzz0jRkDB1eX

New Scientific American article on the genetic mechanism of Schizophrenia. It is a genetic, medical disorder, and those who have it can have insight when they are not psychotic. They know when they are doing well, and can know when they are going downhill. I have many many individuals with schizophrenia volunteering with NAMI. Many of them hold higher positions than those of us here. I know a pharmacist who can't buy her medications at a discount at her own place of work as she could get fired though she has a degree and has worked there for years. I know a man who knows when "odd" thoughts are coming into his head, when to seek help. I also know individuals on disability who however can function on many levels. Then others are not so lucky. Please do not make gross generalizations.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=schizophrenia-gene-mechanism

Finally, DP/DR indeed can make you feel like you are "losing your mind." It is horrifying, terrifying. I have been there ... in the worst episodes I wish someone would kill me. And I have had suicidal feelings about living with this for so long. But I also have better days. My diagnosis, clinical depression, generalized anxiety disorder, chronic DP/DR (Depersonalization Disorder) ... so I have three comorbid disorders. I am not "insane", "crazy", etc. And neither is a person with schizophrenia. And individuals with schizophrenia can have secondary symptoms of DP/DR ...... that doesn't mean that they ALWAYS do .... and having DP/DR does NOT mean you have schizophrenia. No one should self-diagnose -- see a professional. If you aren't happy with the diagnosis you are given, seek a second or third opinion if necessary.

I'm 51, I fist saw a psychiatrist when I was 15. DP/DR is why I sought help. I haven't "gone crazy" yet, and I HATE those words.
Do you call autistic individuals ..... all of those negative words?
Sorry, tired and crabby.

Oh, my college boyfriend has schizophrenia. We have kept in touch over the years. He has times of VERY high functioning. Other very bad times. And he doesn't act like a lunatic. My only concern is when I don't hear from him for a long period of time. It means he has had a bad episode -- despite medications, etc. I have known him for 30 years. What you say makes me want to scream. He is one of the kindest, most intelligent, creative people I know. I still love him after all these years.


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## 2deepathinker

Dreamer* said:


> _*#1. Please read what York has written. The woman has some sense!*_
> 
> Then: Read about:
> 
> An extraordinary man ...
> Schizophrenia gripped the mind of Frederick Frese in the usual fashion, with an abrupt psychotic break in his early twenties that felt like terrifying insight.
> Now a prominent clinical psychologist and mental health advocate, who is still afflicted by his field's most mysterious delusional pathology, Dr. Frese was then a U.S. Marine captain with an advanced math and science education, fluent in Japanese, and assigned to guard nuclear weapons at the Jacksonville, Fla., naval base.
> 
> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2732707#ixzz0jRkDB1eX
> 
> New Scientific American article on the genetic mechanism of Schizophrenia. It is a genetic, medical disorder, and those who have it can have insight when they are not psychotic. They know when they are doing well, and can know when they are going downhill. I have many many individuals with schizophrenia volunteering with NAMI. Many of them hold higher positions than those of us here. I know a pharmacist who can't buy her medications at a discount at her own place of work as she could get fired though she has a degree and has worked there for years. I know a man who knows when "odd" thoughts are coming into his head, when to seek help. I also know individuals on disability who however can function on many levels. Then others are not so lucky. Please do not make gross generalizations.
> 
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=schizophrenia-gene-mechanism
> 
> Finally, DP/DR indeed can make you feel like you are "losing your mind." It is horrifying, terrifying. I have been there ... in the worst episodes I wish someone would kill me. And I have had suicidal feelings about living with this for so long. But I also have better days. My diagnosis, clinical depression, generalized anxiety disorder, chronic DP/DR (Depersonalization Disorder) ... so I have three comorbid disorders. I am not "insane", "crazy", etc. And neither is a person with schizophrenia. And individuals with schizophrenia can have secondary symptoms of DP/DR ...... that doesn't mean that they ALWAYS do .... and having DP/DR does NOT mean you have schizophrenia. No one should self-diagnose -- see a professional. If you aren't happy with the diagnosis you are given, seek a second or third opinion if necessary.
> 
> I'm 51, I fist saw a psychiatrist when I was 15. DP/DR is why I sought help. I haven't "gone crazy" yet, and I HATE those words.
> Do you call autistic individuals ..... all of those negative words?
> Sorry, tired and crabby.
> 
> Oh, my college boyfriend has schizophrenia. We have kept in touch over the years. He has times of VERY high functioning. Other very bad times. And he doesn't act like a lunatic. My only concern is when I don't hear from him for a long period of time. It means he has had a bad episode -- despite medications, etc. I have known him for 30 years. What you say makes me want to scream. He is one of the kindest, most intelligent, creative people I know. I still love him after all these years.


Thank you Dreamer for your posts. I will watch the videos when I am off work at home tonight. I think it is really a relief to know that those who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia can recover. I think part of the problem to me what makes schizophrenia so scary are all the misconceptions about it, and there seems to be a lot of shame about it in our society. Also many people still think it is the same thing as Dissociative Identity Disorder. I think it is great that you are such a mental health advocate.


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## Guest

*As far as I am concerned as well, ALL MENTAL DISORDERS ARE DISORDERS OF THE BRAIN. THEY ARE MEDICAL/NEUROLOGICAL. How could they not be? If your brain isn't functioning properly it is a medical problem.

Illnesses vary, but they are more or less severe as with DP/DR which seems to come with so many neurological problems, but in psychiatry with anxiety/depression which seem to come together.

No case is a "hopeless case." And DP/DR IS NOT SCHIZOPHRENIA. But individuals with schizophrenia are human beings suffering from a mental illness and deserve respect. There are individuals with schizrophrenia ON THIS BOARD.*


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## 2deepathinker

Dreamer* said:


> *As far as I am concerned as well, ALL MENTAL DISORDERS ARE DISORDERS OF THE BRAIN. THEY ARE MEDICAL/NEUROLOGICAL. How could they not be? If your brain isn't functioning properly it is a medical problem.
> 
> Illnesses vary, but they are more or less severe as with DP/DR which seems to come with so many neurological problems, but in psychiatry with anxiety/depression which seem to come together.
> 
> No case is a "hopeless case." And DP/DR IS NOT SCHIZOPHRENIA. But individuals with schizophrenia are human beings suffering from a mental illness and deserve respect. There are individuals with schizrophrenia ON THIS BOARD.*


Very good point!


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## Guest

Thank you 2deep, I try to do what I can do. I just ranted again. I am actually crying thinking of my first boyfriend. If anyone who is saying negative things they have not met him. And there are many people you may know in your everyday life who have schizophrenia or bipolar or depression or DP/DR or anxiety or epilepsy or Aspergers, etc., etc., etc. ... and you would NOT KNOW IT.

And no, I'm not an expert, but I am 51, and have seen/read a lot over the years.
I only beg people to not scare themselves to death, and have respect for anyone with any illness.

Cheers,
D


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## 2deepathinker

nix said:


> Please, don't read crap form this board and don't believe it. Trust to your doctor. Schizophrenic people are never worried about their schizophrenia. Do you know why? Because THEY DON'T KNOW THEY ARE GOING CRAZY.
> It's only your fear playing with your mind. Your doctor said it's anxiety and IT IS ANXIETY.
> Trust me that today doctors know already for sure what schizophrenia is and even more they know WHAT SCHIZOPHRENIA ISN'T.
> Don't feed yourself with nonsense and stupid fears. Those ignorance that some members on this board are spreading is only feeding even more your fears and it doesn't surprise me that many of them are screwed for years only because they believe in the worst and most impossible scenarios and they are feeding in circles their anxiety over and over and over again.
> Once again- trust to your doctor!
> Everybody with DP/DR thinks he's going crazy, but whenever you think that you are going crazy, when you have insight in that how you feel is "wrong", when you feel so scared because of your condition, then FOR SURE it is not schizophrenia.
> 
> You don't need to trust me, you don't need to trust to anyone on this board, but trust to your doctor, because doctors know what schizophrenia is and what it isn't and they know that you don't have schizophrenia and that is one and the only truth. END OF STORY!


Thank you Nix!


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## flat

I'm sure that nix meant well trying to calm your fears about schizophrenia by telling you to not dwell on it. It has gained a bad reputation over the years. But there are also many misconceptions about it as well. As others pointed out, schizz is no different than many other illnesses. And they all come in varying degrees of severity. It makes no difference if you only have simple anxiety when you are paralyzed with symptoms that you don't want. So it really doesn't matter what we have...the main thing is to focus on getting better.


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## 2deepathinker

Dreamer* said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BclJ8rHZMvo&feature=related
> 
> All the misconceptions about schzophrenia here are pretty awful. See the YouTube Video above of Elyn Saks, attorney, law professor, mental health advocate who also has schizophrenia, speak about the stigma. Someone here summed this up re: referencing individuals with schizophrenia as "out of their minds." That is ridiculous. It is a very serious disorder, but as with all mental illness there are people on a spectrum to those who once properly treated are very high functioning to very low-functioning.
> 
> Look at the above video of a woman with schizophrenia, who notes she is far from alone in being high functioning, but who had to keep her illness a secret because of the stigma.
> 
> I have examples of others. This is introduced by Joey Pantoliano, actor with clinical depression.
> 
> Also, I encourage people to check out "No Kidding, Me Too!" -- Joey's anti-stigma group.
> 
> I think it was York? sorry, who noted there are a number of people on this board who have schizophrenia and are high functioning.
> 
> This really makes me angry. I have more links to articles on high-functioning individuals with schizophrenia and current research on what is happening in the brains of such individuals. It is a MEDICAL NEUROLOGICAL disorder affecting cognition, mood, etc.
> 
> -------------------
> PLEASE WATCH THIS VERY BRIEF AWARD ACCEPTANCE SPEECH BY A PROFESSOR OF LAW WHO HAS SCHIZOPHRENIA. YES SHE TAKES MEDICATION AND CONTINUES THERAPY. BUT GUESS IF YOU CAN TELL SHE HAS THIS DISORDER AND TELL ME IF SHE IS "ACTING LIKE A LUNATIC" OR WHATEVER SOMEONE SAID. IGNORANCE IS BLISS I GUESS.
> 
> Sorry, didn't mean to yell


Elyn Saks is amazing!! I don't feel afraid of this illness from watching this! Thank you so much Dreamer! I am in the middle of watching this! She is an incredible inspiration!


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## nix

flat said:


> I'm sure that nix meant well trying to calm your fears about schizophrenia by telling you to not dwell on it. It has gained a bad reputation over the years. But there are also many misconceptions about it as well. As others pointed out, schizz is no different than many other illnesses. And they all come in varying degrees of severity. It makes no difference if you only have simple anxiety when you are paralyzed with symptoms that you don't want. So it really doesn't matter what we have...the main thing is to focus on getting better.


But there is a big difference, because the schizophrenic people, if not treated correctly or on time start to lose gray matter in bran and gray matter is actualy who we are. 
Anxious person doesn't lose anything, only a big ammount of nerves they spend on fears. For example, panic attacks are typical for anxious people, never for schizophrenic people. Schizophrenic people must treat themsleves with medications, while anxious person or person with DP/DR doesn't need if he/she doesn't want to treat and there will be no any permanent damage. 
Sure, when you have DP/DR that you are worried, but it simply can't be schizophrenia. 
Last friday I was at psychiatrist (2 months before I was at some other psychiatrist) and first of them told me it is connected with nerves, not with chemical problems in brain. But of course that you know there is something "wrong" with brain when you feel derealized, but it can be many things, but for sure not schizophrenia. It could be problems with thyroid hormones or that you have lyme disease etc. It could be something that affects your brain with some chemistry, but it's never schizophrenia. Most common reason of DP/DR is anxiety and tired brain. Many people while having panic attacks have them with feeling of derealization, but after panic attack goes away, DR also goes away. 
Most people on this board, including me, have "chronic" DP/DR. My other psychiatrist said to me that she thinks that my brain simply got tired and it tries to escape from all the worries and all stress I have in my life. And that does make sense. 
She also asked me do I have video or audio hallucinations, do I must do something compulsive like counting something all of the time. She also realised that I am in denial of every symptom I have because I know there is something wrong and even if I would have hallucinations I would probably not have schizophrenia. 
When you see a person walking on the street and speaking with somebody that is actualy not there, what do you think that is? That is probably schizophrenia and yes- we say for such people that they are crazy (drunk people don't count).
Not do disrespect them. It is mental illness, but it is not nice illness. OK, it probably can be cured, but still... prejudice or not prejudice- they are mentally ill and that is true. They are not because of that less human or less important. They must be treated just like any person with flu. 
Not all schizophrenic people will have same symptoms, but many of them will think that CIA is spying on them, they will have some crazy philosophical thoughts etc. 
Schizophrenia ain't funny and mild at all. It is disease that is actualy destroying brain (IT IS destroying gray matter in brain) and schizophrenic people don't know there is something wrong with them. They only know there is something wrong when medicaments returned them into reality. That is not stigma or prejudice- it is a fact! 
So, once again, comparing sch. with DP/DR and anxiety is simply WRONG. 
If you want to compare DP/DR with something familiar, it is most probably that DP/DR is nervous breakdown, not schizophrenia.


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## nix

.


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## Guest

nix said:


> But there is a big difference, because the schizophrenic people, if not treated correctly or on time start to lose gray matter in bran and gray matter is actualy who we are.
> Anxious person doesn't lose anything, only a big ammount of nerves they spend on fears. For example, panic attacks are typical for anxious people, never for schizophrenic people. Schizophrenic people must treat themsleves with medications, while anxious person or person with DP/DR doesn't need if he/she doesn't want to treat and there will be no any permanent damage.
> Sure, when you have DP/DR that you are worried, but it simply can't be schizophrenia.
> Last friday I was at psychiatrist (2 months before I was at some other psychiatrist) and first of them told me it is connected with nerves, not with chemical problems in brain. But of course that you know there is something "wrong" with brain when you feel derealized, but it can be many things, but for sure not schizophrenia. It could be problems with thyroid hormones or that you have lyme disease etc. It could be something that affects your brain with some chemistry, but it's never schizophrenia. Most common reason of DP/DR is anxiety and tired brain. Many people while having panic attacks have them with feeling of derealization, but after panic attack goes away, DR also goes away.
> Most people on this board, including me, have "chronic" DP/DR. My other psychiatrist said to me that she thinks that my brain simply got tired and it tries to escape from all the worries and all stress I have in my life. And that does make sense.
> She also asked me do I have video or audio hallucinations, do I must do something compulsive like counting something all of the time. She also realised that I am in denial of every symptom I have because I know there is something wrong and even if I would have hallucinations I would probably not have schizophrenia.
> When you see a person walking on the street and speaking with somebody that is actualy not there, what do you think that is? That is probably schizophrenia and yes- we say for such people that they are crazy (drunk people don't count).
> Not do disrespect them. It is mental illness, but it is not nice illness. OK, it probably can be cured, but still... prejudice or not prejudice- they are mentally ill and that is true. They are not because of that less human or less important. They must be treated just like any person with flu.
> Not all schizophrenic people will have same symptoms, but many of them will think that CIA is spying on them, they will have some crazy philosophical thoughts etc.
> Schizophrenia ain't funny and mild at all. It is disease that is actualy destroying brain (IT IS destroying gray matter in brain) and schizophrenic people don't know there is something wrong with them. They only know there is something wrong when medicaments returned them into reality. That is not stigma or prejudice- it is a fact!
> So, once again, comparing sch. with DP/DR and anxiety is simply WRONG.
> If you want to compare DP/DR with something familiar, it is most probably that DP/DR is nervous breakdown, not schizophrenia.


Dear Nix,
I have to reply to some of this.
Absolutely DP/DR is NOT schizoprhenia.

But I need to clarify some things:

1. Individuals with schizoprhenia DO have severe anxiety and panic attacks and can experience DP/DR. I KNOW such people. Nothing comes "in a vacuum"

2. Yes, there are serious brain changes in someone with schizoprhenia, however as illustrated by many, such as Elyn Saks ... I wish you would watch her BRIEF video, the illness does NOT have to be progressive and completely debilitating. She has had serious psychotic episodes, but as noted is certainly brighter than I am -- an attorney, a writer, a mental health advocate. In her early life she was hospitalized numerous times and yes, she is still on meds, but she is very high functioning. If you watch Joey's upcoming documentary "No Kidding, Me Too" -- one of those individuals mentioned has paranoid schizophrenia. At his worst he felt his friends were after him and was finally hospitalized after threatening individuals with an axe. He is now highly functioning, yes, on medication. Married, and a high level Peer Support Facilitator for others with mental illness.

3. Individuals who have chronic anxiety and depression also experience brain changes that are yet to be fully understood. There is also the question of whether the changes occurred first -- and result in our tendency to dissociate, be more anxious, etc.

4. There is some note that those who are anxious have changes in hippocampus size/volume. There is also a change in the hypothalamus-adrenal-pituitary axis. This is commonly known. We also can have abnormal cortisol levels. There are also fMRIs of individuals with DP/DR who have malfunctions or rather different activity in different parts of their brains compared to control groups and I believe individuals with OCD or other mental illnesses.

5. DP/DR is what I believe at the moment to be a perceptual distortion like deja-vu, which we are "stuck in" -- myself for most of my life. I have no relief. Again, I have DP/DR right now and am not anxious or depressed.
It is also similar to the distortions experienced by individuals with phantom limb pain, or feeling the existence of phantom limbs, even if they are BORN without said limbs.

Read V.S. Ramachandran, M.D., Ph.D.'s book "A Brief Tour of Human Consciousness" -- he talks about DP/DR along with Cotard's and Capgras syndrome.

6. My DP/DR has never been directly associated with panic attacks. There are also some people here who have no panic or anxiety who simply have DP/DR -- that would be a rare "pure DP/DR" which would be the true definition of "Depersonalization Disorder."

7. Of course, FEARING that one has schizophrenia when the primary symptoms are DP/DR is part of the fear at the horror of these feelings for many of us. BUT NO we don't have schizophrenia. But this is not a "tired brain" or a "nervous breakdown." Those are lay terms that are not used in medical practice.

Also, other times individuals who have DP/DR -- stroke, epilepsy, migraine, brain tumor, traumatic brain injury (say severe head trauma), taking certain medications such as antibiotics, Lyme Disease, bipolar, post-partum depression, clinical depression, OCD with Panic, panic attacks (VERY COMMON), chronic anxiety, borderline personality disorder (quite COMMON), individuals who are sleep deprived, and of course drug induced. When we understand the mechanism occuring in all of these disorders we can understand DP/DR and may find better treatment or a cure.

Also read, Maricio Sierra's breakthrough Medical Text dedicated SOLELY to DP/DR: "Depersonalization: A New Look At A Neglected Syndrome. This is by a doctor/researcher who has spent years studying DP/DR at the IoP in London.

TRUE, AGAIN, THOSE OF US WITH DP/DR FEAR SCHIZOPHRENIA, BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE IT. BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE HERE WITH MANY OTHER ILLNESSES INCLUDING SCHIZOPRHENIA WHO HAVE DP/DR/ANXIETY, AS WELL AS INDIVIDUALS WITH DEPRESSION, BIPOLAR, ETC. SOME INDIVIDUALS WHO SELF HARM HAVE DP/DR -- THEY CAN SELF-HARM TO FEEL MORE ALIVE. BUT SOME HAVE A COMPULSION TO SELF HARM AND THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS A DISORDER. INDIVIDUALS WITH ANOREXIA HAVE A POOR SENSE OF BODY IDENTITY. THEY SEE A FAT PERSON, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE SKELETAL, AND AT SOME POINT, LACK OF PROPER DIET CHANGES THE BRAIN TO WHERE THE INDIVIDUAL CANNOT EAT ANYMORE.

People who you see talking on the street, are indeed serious cases of schizophrenia who have not been diagnosed or treated. Some cannot be helped. And many SELF-MEDICATE with drugs and alcohol. This is "Dual Diagnosis." Bipolar individuals I believe are four times as likely to abuse drugs and alcohol ... look at many celebrities with bipolar who are self destructive with alcohol and drugs -- Robert Downey, Jr. .... well instead of listing them I have a great video for them. Just music and the faces of individuals with severe clinical depression and bipolar. Buzz Aldrin -- first man on the moon is bipolar!

OK, I have to cut and paste this, and leave it as my final lecture on this.
We have so much to learn about the brain.
Also, I recommend the film "The Soloist" and "Canvas" -- these films don't have a rosy picture of schizophrenia, but illustrate that some people who are homeless or severely disabled can get better, or at least can have improved quality of life.

Again, visit http://www.nkm2.org -- many with mental illness "self-medicate" with drugs/alcohol as they don't know what is wrong with themselves, or they are too ashamed or have no money to get treatment
And http://www.nami.org

End of lecture.
D
And my boyfriend whom I've known for 30 years, is a living example of someone who has been at times homeless, and at other times a successful computer engineer/graphic artist and musician. He has panic attacks. But he does not understand my DP/DR. And I love him for being so brave and surviving despite good and bad times.

Oh, childhood schizophrenia ... and some children are BORN with schizophrenia ... are probably greatest at risk for never getting well.


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## Guest

Here is the video on bipolar celebrities, I can't name a few. Not all have bipolar but severe depression. Some have had manic states/psychotic and many self-medicate with alcohol and drugs. Some have committed suicide. Others with proper medication function very well, but again many current celebrities have not "come out of the closet" as the stigma could damage their careers. Actors/musicians can "come out of the closet" as "eccentricity" is tolerated in that profession.

http://vodpod.com/watch/2893061-famous-people-with-bipolar-disorder
A lovely video of said individuals with music.

Abraham Lincoln - President of the U.S. - severe depression
Adam Ant - Musician
Ben Stiller - Actor (who retracted his diagnosis)
Burgess Meredith - Actor
Buzz Aldrin - Astronaut (Walked on the Moon)
Edgar Allan Poe - Poet
Virginia Wolfe - Writer - committed suicide
Francis Ford Coppolla - Film Director
Mike Tyson - Boxing Champion - also does not admit diangosis
Sir Issac Newton - Scientist
?
Jimi Hendrix - Musician - death by rec drugs/suicide?
Linda Hamilton - Actress
Beethoven - Famous Composer
Winston Churchill - Britsh Primeminister - severe depressive episodes
Phil Spector - Record Producer/Convicted of Murdering his wife during a Manic episode
?
Richard Dreyfus - Actor
?
?
Sting - Unsure of this, but Peter Gabriel is bipolar
Kurt Cobain - Musicain - committed suicide/drug overdose/drug abuse
Ned Beatty - Actor
Ozzie Osbourne - Musician/drug abuse
Jim Carey - Actor (not positive)
Robert Downey, Jr - Actor/severe drug abuser
Robin Wiliams - Comedian/Actor
?
Stephen Fry - Comedian/Actor
Vincent Van Gogh - Arist/Dianosis uncler but clearly mentally ill/depressed


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## flat

There are some sites on google that talk about the drug lithium, which helps reverse the loss of grey matter in schizophrenia. Nice to know.


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## Guest

For all who would like to know what an actual Schizophernic/depersonalized inflicted person has to say.. watch this..

she is not a lunatic.. and in fact a very sweet person.


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## Minerva8979

I'm glad to read all the well-informed responses some individuals have made to combat the ignorance discussed about schizophrenia (and other mental disorders). There is MUCH to learn and its fascinating.

-Just completed an Abnormal Psych course from a professor/psychologist who has specialized in the field of Abnormal Psychology, specifically schizophrenia for 34 years.-


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## Guest

Schizophrenia is one of the disease. Due to the Schizophrenia person suffered by the some of the fear or the allergy which is harmful to the health. So, it is require to concern the psychiatrist to get the effective result.


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## Xerei

nix said:


> If anyone along with schizophrenia has also DP/DR as one of many symptoms, he is for sure not on this board. Schizophrenic people are actualy true lunatics. Schizohrenic people don't know that they are crazy and they don't question their symptoms.
> DP/DR as a standalone condition doesn't have anything in common with schizophrenia and it can't turn into schizophrenia.
> DP/DR is only a symptom of tired mind and anxiety.
> You don't have schizophrenia and you will never have it.
> Schizophrenia is also congenital disease. If you don't have in your family schizophrenia there are actualy no chance for you to get it. Schizophrenia also starts at younger age (cca when people are 15 years old). If it starts when you're older, predictions are better then.
> My whole family, both on sides of father and mother never had anyone with mental diseases, so chances for me to have schizophrenia are probably impossible.
> Also, the most common symptoms of schizophrenic people are audio and video hallucinations. They are also paranoid and they most of the time think that CIA is spying on them, that somebody wants to poison their food etc.
> But the most important thing is that they actualy BELIEVE in everything they see or hear. They live in some parallel world and they do believe that world is real.
> Even if you have any hallucinations as healthy person, you would know that what you see isn't actualy there. Schizophrenic person doesn't have that insight. They truly think that hallucinations are real. That is true and progressive disease of brain. DP/DR is connected to anxiety and that is mostly connected to nervous system, not to any kind of brain disease.
> You don't have, you can't have and you will never have schizophrenia.


I agree with a lot of the stuff that you say, really. BUT..if someone related to you has..for an example any bipolar disorder, then it actually is a chance that you can have it aswell..
And new science shows that schizophrenia might actually be a parasite called Plasma something gondii..comes from cat-shit and stuff...so...well, I'm not gonna rant you on what you say, cause I agree with a lot of it as I already said. And have a nice day.
And yeah people, I agreed with someone that just got ranted as fuckin hell on here, but guess what, parts of what he says is true. So if you wanna hate someone now, go ahead and hate me, I'm waiting for you.
And another thing,..you got no reason or whatsoever to rant on him for what he said. He/she shared his/her point of view, and I think we all should respect that, the ones who can't got deeper issues than DP.


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## hellokitty

Yes, I was diagnosed with a light schizophrenia, but I'm still not sure if I have it. Never used drugs, but I had/have a lot of issues, like anxiety [still have a little], that hearing stuff [was a little paranoid], and DR now. I'm doing treatment with antipsychotics, and I'm feeling a little better, but what worries me the most right now is the DR thing; once the meds don't bring any results, I wanna change it to Zyprexa, Idk, intend to give it a shot. And my psychiatrist said that even if I have schizoph, there's a lot of people with it that functions very well. Just saying.


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## Guest

Schizophrenia is a severe mental disorder characterized by delusions, hallucinations, incoherent and physical mixing, it is classified as a "thought", and bipolar affective disorder is a "mood" disorders. It is a mental disorder characterized by the process of disintegration of thoughts and emotions.


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## Guest

I have some tips, Which can support you in your Schizophrenia,

1 It 'important to find a support for friends, family, doctors or social workers.
2 It is important to trust your social support system to help you right now.
3 Do not be afraid to ask questions of your doctor and ask for clarification if necessary. This will help you manage and live with schizophrenia.
4 The more you understand the disease, the better you can learn to manage and handle.
5 Visit your Expert Regularly.


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## halesjoe

Person with schizophrenia have no idea how. They really believe that hallucinations are real. It's a real brain disease and progressive. DP / DR is associated with anxiety and is often linked to the nervous system, and not to any type of brain disease.


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## Guest

In addition, people with epilepsy most of the time before an attack is a sense of unreality, but that does not mean that people on this forum has epilepsy, or there is more than 0.001% of people with epilepsy can be a DR .


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## Nichole

york said:


> There are people on this board _with_ schizophrenia _and DP_, and I think it's very thoughtless of you to describe people diagnosed with this the way you do. If you are not sure what the symptoms of schizophrenia is, please educate yourself before you misinform people, and also scare people, as I am sure you do with some of your statements.


I agree with her.... .I know a male in his 20s who is Schizophrenic and he's high functioning as long as he stays away from illegal drugs and stays on his prescribed medication.


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## girlie

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## lakesoal

Schizophrenia is disease of split personality disorder. It is very rarely found in people almost in 2% in 1 million. There are almost five types of different Schizophrenia. The term Schizophrenia was first used in 1911. In medieval times, schizophrenia, like other diseases, is often considered as evidence, the patient was possessed of the soul or the power of evil.


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## girlie

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