# Choosing "the latest" drugs for depersonalization



## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

Hello,

My name is Yinon, I am new here. I skipped the "introduce yourself" post since I mostly interested in the psychiatric treatment sub-forum.
First, I want to thank you all for sharing your experience, research and information. I'm following this forum for a long time and it helped me tremendously in term of motivation.
I also wish to apologize for my bad English. it's my second language so I try my best.

I decided to join in now that I overcame the worst time I ever had with my DP. I was constantly disconnect from the reality, looking for ways to disappear. 
Now I hold a stash of 20g Pentobarbital on my side drawer. For some reason it keeps my calm and helped me to recover from this crippling depression.

In terms of meds, I'm the guinea pig type - willing to try everything. I'm also pretty good at finding hard-to-reach-prescription-drugs over the web so that's help.
So far Iv'e used Wellbutrin XL+ Lamotrigine + Oxazepam\Clonazepam | Abilify | Armodafinil | Memantine | LSD Microdosing | Psilocybin Microdosing | etc.
Overall, any of drugs didn't cured most of my symptoms. Some of them been quit helpful for DP in term of felling more grounded and connected with the enviroment but they also worsen my social anxiety. "Abilify" was helpful as a mood stabilizer but I could not afford the costs at that time.

At this point, I'm feeling like I need to use the most powerful drugs out there as I sincerely don't think that I will survive another depression period.

Here is a list of possible treatments based on my recent reasearch. I also added studies references:

1. Going back to "Abilify (Aripiprazole)" for long term use and adding "Armodafinil" to reduce the side effects (mainly sleepiness and food craving which leads to weight gain)


Three patients who have been treated successfully with Aripiprazole
Patient who showed complete remission after 4 months of using Aripiprazole
"Aripiprazole may be effective because of its function as a 5-HT2A receptor antagonist, which may restore balance in the serotonergic system.
"Dr. Evan Torch calls a combination of an SSRI and Modafinil "the hidden pearl that can really help depersonalization disorder".
2. "Naltrexone" and "buprenorphine" combination as a kappa antagonist, following Elliott post. 
120 mg/d Naltrexone leads to average 30% reduction of symptoms
I'm really not sure about this one, mainly because "buprenorphine" is very hard to reach and it's unclear which dosage to use


> ("Phase II studies investigated ALKS-5461 at dosages of 2 mg/day and 8 mg/day found effectiveness with both dosages but significantly greater improvement with the 8 mg/day dose").


I know that people struggle to get a prescription for "Naltrexone" but note that you can easily obtain high quality generic from various of web-pharmacies. 50mg tablet cost about 2.2$, it's manufactured by "Sun Pharma, India" (world's 5th largest pharmaceutical company). I can share the links if it helps.

3. "JDTic". 
In theory, it's a near pure kappa opioid antagonist and it could potentially eliminate DP symptoms more effectively than Naltrexone, which exhibits a relatively weak antagonization of the receptor, but you probably aware of the risks involve-


> "Development of JDTic was halted due to the incidence of non-sustained ventricular tachycardia (2 out of the 6 participants) During phase I human clinical trials for the treatment of cocaine abuse. This type of arrhythmia can potentially be life-threatening."


Nonetheless, I'm willing to take the risks involve and I'm currently looking for A reliable suppliers. The ones that I found so far were too expensive.

I will be glad to hear your thoughts and suggestions. 
Feel free to ask about the previous drugs I used or anything really&#8230;.


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## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

Thanks Elliott!

I'm currently avoiding non-invasive brain stimulation techniques but I will consider it as a last resort.

Let us know how your correct treatment works for you... (Buprenorphine + Naltrexone).

Regarding JDTic, What dosage do you have in my mind?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Regarding JDTic, What dosage do you have in my mind?


The company which produced JDTic abandoned it after the first study on humans. It's certainly not safe.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

utopia said:


> Thanks Elliott!
> 
> I'm currently avoiding non-invasive brain stimulation techniques but I will consider it as a last resort.
> 
> ...


Where did you find JDTic?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Where did you find JDTic?


At Longecity they sometimes organize group buys for research chemicals they let a lab synthesize for them.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

TDX said:


> At Longecity they sometimes organize group buys for research chemicals they let a lab synthesize for them.


Why do people think JDTic would work for DP?


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## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

I'm afraid I have some bad Elliott.

I contacted legitimate chemical suppliers from all over the world and the average pricing that I received is $4000 for 100mg of JDTic.

Now, it is possible to purchase a smaller amount but we need to further investigate whether it has any long-term benefits that can justify the high price.

Based on data collected from animal models the effects of JDTic were noticed for approximately 3 weeks after just one dose.

However, it is mentioned that the participant on the human research received 1mg or 3mg or 10mg of JDTic *daily*.﻿

I also read positive anecdotes from peoples who used to micro-dose with 100mcg of jDTic every other day. However, none of them used it to treat DP and also, they may experienced a placebo effect.

Let me know what your thinking....


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> By the way, I also received number of quotes for "LY-2456302|CERC-501". The average price is $2000 for 1g. Crazy.


Combining Buprenorphine and Naltrexone/Nalmefene is cheaper.



> There's no money to be made in a cure.


I don't think so. They could have made each pill very expensive, like that pill for hepatitis C.


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## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

TDX said:


> Combining Buprenorphine and Naltrexone/Nalmefene is cheaper.


Yes you are right, but "Buprenorphine" can be purchased only through the dark market which can be problematic for a various of reasons. I'm also waiting to hear Elliott report before going into that direction.

Right now I'm focused on researching JDTic. I have really good feeling about it.

I just received a quote from a trusted chemical supplier from my country who offered me 5mg of JDTic for $150. It is very expensive but I'm willing to spend it as a last resort.

At the end of the, if it will help eliminate my DP symptoms to the point that I will be able to go back to work and have a normal life, It is well worth it.

However, I'm still researching and trying to understand whether 5mg will be sufficient.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Right now I'm focused on researching JDTic. I have really good feeling about it.
> 
> I just received a quote from a trusted chemical supplier from my country who offered me 5mg of JDTic for $150. It is very expensive but I'm willing to spend it as a last resort.


Before trying a very expensive and possibly dangerous research chemical I would try to get some Nalmefene and try to reach a dosage of 200 mg (this is the dosage H. Glover succesfully used in this study and patents for emotional numbness in PTSD and depression). This should be enough to see if kappa-opoid-antagonism might work for you, or not. If it works and you cannot tolerate the high dosage (or the high cost) of Nalmefene you could still try to get Buprenorphine or JDTic.


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## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

TDX said:


> Before trying a very expensive and possibly dangerous research chemical I would try to get some Nalmefene and try to reach a dosage of 200 mg (this is the dosage H. Glover succesfully used in this study and patents for emotional numbness in PTSD and depression). This should be enough to see if kappa-opoid-antagonism might work for you, or not. If it works and you cannot tolerate the high dosage (or the high cost) of Nalmefene you could still try to get Buprenorphine or JDTic.


Point taken. Appreciate your suggestion. 
Unfortunately, I have no access to Nalmefene but I might chose the Naltrexone+Buprenorphine route. 
It seems relatively safer and mostly- less expensive.


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## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

I'm continuing to share my findings regarding the currently available kappa opioid receptor antagonists.

JDTic Safety and Dosing:



> Although the evidence is circumstantial, based on the temporal similarity of the 2 individual occurrences of NSVT out of 6 subjects (33%) who received JDTic, the statistical unlikelihood that the 2 observed occurrences of NSVT were preexisting conditions in the affected subjects, the temporal similarity to the episode of NSVT observed in 1 of the 6 (17%) monitored monkeys dosed with JDTic, and the existence of a possible causal mechanism, NSVT could be a JDTic toxicity in humans.
> 
> There is preclinical data to suggest that 1 mg could be an efficacious human dose for KOR antagonism. The intragastric JDTic AD50 for inhibition of the effects of exogenous enadoline-induced behaviors (15 min postdose) in cynomolgus monkeys was 0.025 mg/kg, which would equate to an HED of 0.5 mg (with a predicted human Cmax of 0.02 nM). Once again, these concentrations are much less than the lowest observed to cause prolongation of QTc in cynomolgus monkeys.


"A Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial to Evaluate the Safety, Tolerability, and Pharmacokinetics of Single, Escalating Oral Doses of JDTic" - 2015


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

King Elliott said:


> It works in the same way as ALKS-5461 etc.
> 
> JDTic is a very long-lasting kappa antagonist that seems to bind irreversibly. It's hypothesised that a single dose would last for weeks or even longer.
> 
> Of course, the cynic in me says that even if the VT hadn't been a problem, they would never have released the drug. There's no money to be made in a cure.


What is VT?


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## mjones (Mar 26, 2016)

I would never be able to take drugs for this disorder without a doctor prescribing me :/


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## utopia (Mar 7, 2016)

Hi again, I'm back for a follow- up.

I tried "jDtic" with crazy expectations and with no noticeable results.
My therapist is currently asking me to stop using any substances for a year as part of the therapy plan.

What can I say? Really losing my faith here. reading the forums give some power to go through the day so thank you all.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

utopia said:


> Hi again, I'm back for a follow- up.
> 
> I tried "jDtic" with crazy expectations and with no noticeable results.
> My therapist is currently asking me to stop using any substances for a year as part of the therapy plan.
> ...


Keep trying if you can and comfortable with it. Not a slight improvement with jDtic?

Information appreciated.


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

I would treat it with whatever treats anxiety/depression. Once the mind relaxes dp/dr goes away.


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