# Blank mind. No emotions. Who else ?



## Numbed (Aug 7, 2021)

Does anyone know how this happens? I've been this way for 15 years now. I have accepted it but still searching for answers which I feel I deserve. Who else has no emotions , no anxiety, no connection to anything, can't make memories and everything always feels like we are doing it for the first time. Just never feeling there .


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## dor (Mar 23, 2011)

Have you had breaks from DPDR within your 15 years?

I've been in this for a little less than you, and I have had periods of "breaks." Although within those breaks I was avoiding suffering and healing. DPDR is the layer over the fear, the anxiety, unanswered questions of your unexamined past. Your emotions are there, truly. But yeah I've been in your position. I believe depersonalization is an odd tool the universe uses on people. Idk how to explain it.

I have a theory about "why" everything feels like we are doing it for the first time:

Everyday is a new day, yes, but each incoming day is interconnected with memories that are part of our future and our past, so, since we're forced to be in the present moment precisely--awareness within awareness---a DPDRd person is on the brink of actually being human.

So it seems that everything that serves a common goal comes in a duality; night and day, asleep and awake, fatigue and discipline, and eventually _blank mind_ and _emotion_. Our emotions are a compass... as long as we're still human we have a chance to access this compass. You do deserve answers, that is true. But because this "disorder" is the logical dissection of the human compass, answers will only come when one takes action. Action doesn't mean movement of the body either, it can just mean assessing core beliefs quietly. I have faith you'll come back. I'm working through this muck too.. however I am filled with anxiety, fear, anger, but also peaks of joy and satisfaction. It's very bizarre this new phase of DPDR.


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## Numbed (Aug 7, 2021)

dor said:


> Have you had breaks from DPDR within your 15 years?
> 
> I've been in this for a little less than you, and I have had periods of "breaks." Although within those breaks I was avoiding suffering and healing. DPDR is the layer over the fear, the anxiety, unanswered questions of your unexamined past. Your emotions are there, truly. But yeah I've been in your position. I believe depersonalization is an odd tool the universe uses on people. Idk how to explain it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying. No I have not had any breaks. I am not even sure what I really have because even with DP it seems people don't have emotional numbness or atleast not everyone does. All I know is I had a bad panic attack years back and ended up like this right after. I can't understand how this can happen to a normal person with just some anxiety prior. How did you get DP? What are your main symptoms?


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## Trith (Dec 31, 2019)

I definitely have emotions and sometimes anxiety, but some emotions are dull indeed. I don't feel touched when I am in a nice place, and I feel less emotional contact with people. Also I feel less love for people in my opinion, or that feeling is a little unstable. When my DPDR started, as a teenager, I had a lot of problems with falling in love and feeling lonely and or frustrated, and I have a feeling one of the purposes of my DPDR was to protect me from that.


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## Debora17 (Oct 4, 2021)

Numbed said:


> Does anyone know how this happens? I've been this way for 15 years now. I have accepted it but still searching for answers which I feel I deserve. Who else has no emotions , no anxiety, no connection to anything, can't make memories and everything always feels like we are doing it for the first time. Just never feeling there .


I've had dpdr for more than 10 years. The episodes were temporary and so intense but I still had connection to reality . It escalated in June 2021 when I started feeling so detached from reality and myself. I've felt so numb and sleepy.since then. Not actually sleepy but I am always daydreaming to the point it scares me. I've gone through days when I wasn't feeling like talking to anyone, why would I care to speak when nothing makes sense. i am not saying it hasn't gotten better but when I think about myself before this , the old person full of joy and ambitions about life compared to this version of myself trapped in a dreamlike state.. I see a huge difference.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

I've also got no emotions since developing these symptoms. Sometimes my mind goes blank, but it's not consistently like that. I am consistently numb, though, and have memory troubles also.

For me, this happened after some traumatic events in 2014 and 2015 and my diagnosis is complex PTSD.


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## Numbed (Aug 7, 2021)

Kittymoo said:


> I've also got no emotions since developing these symptoms. Sometimes my mind goes blank, but it's not consistently like that. I am consistently numb, though, and have memory troubles also.
> 
> For me, this happened after some traumatic events in 2014 and 2015 and my diagnosis is complex PTSD.


Thank you for sharing. How do you cope with it ? If you don't mind me asking how old are you ? Male or female ? I always like to compare my situation against someone else's for some comfort. What therapies or medications have you tried?


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Numbed said:


> Thank you for sharing. How do you cope with it ? If you don't mind me asking how old are you ? Male or female ? I always like to compare my situation against someone else's for some comfort. What therapies or medications have you tried?


I'm a 43 year old female. I've had these symptoms since late 2015. I take low dose naltrexone and do EMDR and sensorimotor psychotherapy. I've also tried neurofeedback, Gestalt therapy, Somatic Experencing, laser therapy and acupuncture. I've made progress with all of them (except Gestalt) and then lost it.

I don't really know how I cope. I probably wouldn't cope well if I wasn't getting help. The fact that I am gives me hope for a way out.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Hi all - thanks for this thread. I'm not too active on here but do check for new posts. This thread resonates with me a lot too. I'm a 36 year old male who had a really bad reaction back in summer of 2019 to a THC vape pen and it disconnected me from my reality. I was taking Fluoxetine 2 months after the incident as I had no idea about DPDR so assumed it was just severe anxiety I was experiencing. The medication helped limit the anxiety more or less instantly. I then hit a therapeutic level with the medication about 6 months later when I felt anxiety free and was so much happier in my mood.

I decided to taper off the Fluoxetine 9 months after I started them (July 2020), because I felt I no longer needed them/wanted to rely on them and hoped to return to my former self as I felt they were restricting me emotionally (but not completely restricting me). It wasn't until about 1-2 months after stopping that I realised I was left emotionally void and that's when I started searching for answers and stumbled across DPDR.

Since then I've just been trying to ride it out in the hope my emotions would return but they haven't. They have actually become more muted/numb since then. 

What is strange to me is I can't even experience being drunk like I used to. Alcohol used to alleviate any anxiety I had but since I no longer can experience anxiety, I now just feel the physical effects of alcohol and none of the emotional triggering aspects of it.

I have been reluctant to try medication again as it would involve me having to tell my wife what I am experiencing and I don't want to burden her with this because even if she knew then there's nothing she can do to help it improve. I'd rather her be blissfully unaware and continue with life normally.

But I am getting to that point where I see no alternative but to try medication again. The Fluoxetine obviously helped before but I don't know whether that had any indirect effect in leading to this emotional numbness as I know SSRIs can numb people whilst they're on it.

The other medication I've read up on to support DPDR sufferers who's main symptom is numbing and that is Clomipramine. I'm hesitant because it's one of the least tolerated antidepressants but once you get past the initial side effects it can be a positive treatment.

I'm interested to know what has helped you the most @Kittymoo ?

What medications have you tried @Numbed ?

I'm also just considering trying Wellbutrin or even trying a more tolerated SSRI as perhaps this is just a depression rather than classic DPDR?! I don't feel as though I suffer from Derealization ever since that initial onset which went away after the Fluoxetine treatment.

My motivation and concentration is seriously flawed now as is my memory to a degree. I have no nostalgia about happy memories and songs don't take me back to mememories either. 

What is interesting is that I did have those abilities whilst I was on the Fluoxetine. So I'm not sure whether the numbness has slowly come on as a result of the DPDR process after the vape pen, or ever since coming off of the medication.

Very confused as what to do, and there isn't a lot of specific information on recovery pages just for those recovered from emotional numbness.

Anyway good to reach out to others in a similar boat.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Stay Young said:


> Hi all - thanks for this thread. I'm not too active on here but do check for new posts. This thread resonates with me a lot too. I'm a 36 year old male who had a really bad reaction back in summer of 2019 to a THC vape pen and it disconnected me from my reality. I was taking Fluoxetine 2 months after the incident as I had no idea about DPDR so assumed it was just severe anxiety I was experiencing. The medication helped limit the anxiety more or less instantly. I then hit a therapeutic level with the medication about 6 months later when I felt anxiety free and was so much happier in my mood.
> 
> I decided to taper off the Fluoxetine 9 months after I started them (July 2020), because I felt I no longer needed them/wanted to rely on them and hoped to return to my former self as I felt they were restricting me emotionally (but not completely restricting me). It wasn't until about 1-2 months after stopping that I realised I was left emotionally void and that's when I started searching for answers and stumbled across DPDR.
> 
> ...


Hi and thanks for reaching out with your story.

The most helpful things for me have been neurofeedback, EMDR and somatic therapies, but I have been unable to sustain the progress I made with any of them. 

Any kind of stressor tends to be a trigger that shunts me back to square 1. There have been many times that it seemed like I was recovering with the help of treatment, only to suddenly be set back to the beginning and then to find that the form of therapy which had been helping me no longer did anything for me.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Kittymoo said:


> Hi and thanks for reaching out with your story.
> 
> The most helpful things for me have been neurofeedback, EMDR and somatic therapies, but I have been unable to sustain the progress I made with any of them.
> 
> Any kind of stressor tends to be a trigger that shunts me back to square 1. There have been many times that it seemed like I was recovering with the help of treatment, only to suddenly be set back to the beginning and then to find that the form of therapy which had been helping me no longer did anything for me.


Thanks for the quick reply. So were the stressors big ones or quite trivial in the grand scheme of things?


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Stay Young said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. So were the stressors big ones or quite trivial in the grand scheme of things?


Mostly fairly major ones, but I also found that changing neurofeedback protocols would reverse the progress I made, and then after that happened, that particular form of neurofeedback would no longer work for me at all. This happened with both LENS and infra-low neurofeedback. 

With EEGer neurofeedback, I lost the progress I'd made with it after my dad needed hospitalisation, which he does regularly, so I've had a few major setbacks because of that.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Kittymoo said:


> Mostly fairly major ones, but I also found that changing neurofeedback protocols would reverse the progress I made, and then after that happened, that particular form of neurofeedback would no longer work for me at all. This happened with both LENS and infra-low neurofeedback.
> 
> With EEGer neurofeedback, I lost the progress I'd made with it after my dad needed hospitalisation, which he does regularly, so I've had a few major setbacks because of that.


Ah I'm sorry to hear that. You're trying your best to recover yet life throws other stressers at you. 

Would you recommend trying the neurofeedback route before medication in that case, given you seemed to be responding well at first?

I should be starting CBT with a specialist in London sometime hopefully soon.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Stay Young said:


> Ah I'm sorry to hear that. You're trying your best to recover yet life throws other stressers at you.
> 
> Would you recommend trying the neurofeedback route before medication in that case, given you seemed to be responding well at first?
> 
> I should be starting CBT with a specialist in London sometime hopefully soon.


Unfortunately, there's no getting away from life stressors, even if you try to control your environment as much as possible. Some of them are unavoidable.

I did try several kinds of neurofeedback before turning to medication. The medication hasn't had a particularly dramatic effect for me, but studies do show a benefit from opiate blockers in most people with dissociative symptoms.

I would suggest that other people try neurofeedback before trying meds, because neurofeedback doesn't involve significant side-effects. 

That being said, nor does low dose naltrexone. There are digestive side-effects (some abdominal pain and constipation) in the first two weeks after starting it, and then again for two weeks every time you have a dose increase. After that, nothing. 

It's a very safe drug and you don't really have anything to lose by trying it out. Some of the other drugs used for dissociation do have heavier side-effects, and I haven't asked to try those for that reason.

Neurofeedback is most effective in conjunction with some sort of psychotherapy. It needs something to cling to, so to speak.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

@Stay Young : One thing that concerns me is that you're going to be doing CBT. I think CBT has a good success rate for a lot of things, but I'm not sure that depersonalisation, derealisation, emotional numbing and dissociative symptoms generally are among them. 

If you were trying this form of treatment for anxiety, I'd think it was worth a shot, but since you've got really quite the opposite set of symptomology, I'd suggest you try something body-based before anything that's cognitive and top down, so to speak. Somatic Experiencing or Sensorimotor Psychotherapy seems like it might be more likely to help you.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Thanks for the helpful insight @Kittymoo. 

I tend to agree with the CBT thing but I haven't ever done it and it's through the trauma specialists in London who are the only medical professionals treating DPDR in the country. I'm hoping to at least draw from their experience and expertise with treating others before me.

I think they might be able to recommend medication to my GP which my GP would not normally prescribe me unless they were being advised to, such as Low Dose Naltroxone.

That is interesting about LDN and something I have read up about. The bottom line is I do think there are lots of options and avenues to explore but it's just how prepared I am to throw myself at their door and beginning the trial and error process it's inevitably going to take. All with trying to hold down a job, marriage and be a dad to a 2 year old too.

That's why hearing about what works and what doesn't is helpful to know, but again caveated with the fact everyone is different and can respond differently to all treatment.

Last point I'd make for Clomipramine is that it's good for OCD. I know there is a lot of discussion about the obsessive nature of how we feel (or don't feel in our case). If Clomipramine could help lift mood whilst also taking a minds off the introspection then perhaps that could be a good thing. I heard anecdotally that another forum member has responded well to it who had the numbness. 

I will look in to the neurofeedback stuff you suggest. The issue is here in the UK it's not recognised as first-line treatment in the eyes of the NHS so I'd need to find the money myself.

Good to have connected with you on this and I'll be sure to get in touch if any improvements are made. Be great if you and others can do the same.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Stay Young said:


> Thanks for the helpful insight @Kittymoo.
> 
> I tend to agree with the CBT thing but I haven't ever done it and it's through the trauma specialists in London who are the only medical professionals treating DPDR in the country. I'm hoping to at least draw from their experience and expertise with treating others before me.
> 
> ...


I'm more than happy to provide updates, but as with most people who experience a lot of dissociation, my memory has become poor and it's possible I'll forget to. Feel free to tag or message me for an update if you don't see one from me for a while. I get email notifications.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

CBT won't do a lot for dissociation, as it's much more an emotional, physical response rather than a cognitive one. If you are very much connected to yourself and your body CBT could do a lot. You could throw all talk therapy at me in any way shape or form. It won't land, I am a shell, I can't internalize anything. The disconnect has to lift first. I know there's a deeper layer in all of these issues.. that's why something like MDMA has my attention. I can let you go deep within yourself and lift the dissociation so you can enter where the pain is hidden.. after all dissociation is a defense mechanism to protect us but it hasn't been turned off in our cases. Medication can help, but I don't believe they are the cure. they only create another problem at the end...


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## Numbed (Aug 7, 2021)

Stay Young said:


> Hi all - thanks for this thread. I'm not too active on here but do check for new posts. This thread resonates with me a lot too. I'm a 36 year old male who had a really bad reaction back in summer of 2019 to a THC vape pen and it disconnected me from my reality. I was taking Fluoxetine 2 months after the incident as I had no idea about DPDR so assumed it was just severe anxiety I was experiencing. The medication helped limit the anxiety more or less instantly. I then hit a therapeutic level with the medication about 6 months later when I felt anxiety free and was so much happier in my mood.
> 
> I decided to taper off the Fluoxetine 9 months after I started them (July 2020), because I felt I no longer needed them/wanted to rely on them and hoped to return to my former self as I felt they were restricting me emotionally (but not completely restricting me). It wasn't until about 1-2 months after stopping that I realised I was left emotionally void and that's when I started searching for answers and stumbled across DPDR.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you are going through this. I can say I tried Wellbutrin and didn't feel much effect but maybe I should have stayed on it longer. It was one of the meds with the least side effects for me. I did try clomipramine and had horrible side effects .. constant nausea and dizziness.. complete sexual dysfunction and it did nothing. It's very hard to tell what caused it for you. I am similar in that I also get no emotional effects from drinking or other substances that should be evoking something. It's all so confusing and hard and seems doctors know nothing about it or how it really manifests itself. I keep saying to them I'm not depressed but that is all I keep getting from them. Do you also have children ?


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## Numbed (Aug 7, 2021)

Kittymoo said:


> Unfortunately, there's no getting away from life stressors, even if you try to control your environment as much as possible. Some of them are unavoidable.
> 
> I did try several kinds of neurofeedback before turning to medication. The medication hasn't had a particularly dramatic effect for me, but studies do show a benefit from opiate blockers in most people with dissociative symptoms.
> 
> ...


How have you found it helped you ? The naltrexone I mean.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Numbed said:


> I'm sorry you are going through this. I can say I tried Wellbutrin and didn't feel much effect but maybe I should have stayed on it longer. It was one of the meds with the least side effects for me. I did try clomipramine and had horrible side effects .. constant nausea and dizziness.. complete sexual dysfunction and it did nothing. It's very hard to tell what caused it for you. I am similar in that I also get no emotional effects from drinking or other substances that should be evoking something. It's all so confusing and hard and seems doctors know nothing about it or how it really manifests itself. I keep saying to them I'm not depressed but that is all I keep getting from them. Do you also have children ?


Thank you for replying and sad to hear both Wellbutrin and Clomipramine weren't good for you. 

Have you tried one of the opiod blockers that @Kittymoo talks of? That would be on my list of options along with the Lamotrogine/SSRI combo. I've read on here how it has helped someone else who also experienced numbing as core symptom.

My only other suggestion would be to get on a more tolerable SSRI and keep with it up to 6 months, as that's how long fluoxetine took for me to hit therapeutic level on 20mg. I also found the sexual side effects of that difficult, but that's why I thought Wellbutrin added would alleviate that issue.

Failing all that I guess the micro dosing route would be next that I'd explore. 

I just think perseverance with one thing might be more effective than trial and error and switching or stopping... but I have no experience of that method.

Lastly, yes I have a little girl who is incredible... but also it deeply pains me (academically speaking) that I'm not able to fully absorb her in the way the average parent should/would. 

How about you?


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## leminaseri (Jul 1, 2020)

Aridity said:


> CBT won't do a lot for dissociation, as it's much more an emotional, physical response rather than a cognitive one. If you are very much connected to yourself and your body CBT could do a lot. You could throw all talk therapy at me in any way shape or form. It won't land, I am a shell, I can't internalize anything. The disconnect has to lift first. I know there's a deeper layer in all of these issues.. that's why something like MDMA has my attention. I can let you go deep within yourself and lift the dissociation so you can enter where the pain is hidden.. after all dissociation is a defense mechanism to protect us but it hasn't been turned off in our cases. Medication can help, but I don't believe they are the cure. they only create another problem at the end...


what do mean further by „im not able to internalize“?


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

leminaseri said:


> what do mean further by „im not able to internalize“?


What is being said, in talk therapy cannot be put to use. I understand what is being said, but it doesn't land internally. Because there's no connection with the self.


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## Numbed (Aug 7, 2021)

Stay Young said:


> Thank you for replying and sad to hear both Wellbutrin and Clomipramine weren't good for you.
> 
> Have you tried one of the opiod blockers that @Kittymoo talks of? That would be on my list of options along with the Lamotrogine/SSRI combo. I've read on here how it has helped someone else who also experienced numbing as core symptom.
> 
> ...


How long have you been numb ? The Wellbutrin might help and yes it typically doesn't cause sexual dysfunction.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Aridity said:


> CBT won't do a lot for dissociation, as it's much more an emotional, physical response rather than a cognitive one. If you are very much connected to yourself and your body CBT could do a lot. You could throw all talk therapy at me in any way shape or form. It won't land, I am a shell, I can't internalize anything. The disconnect has to lift first. I know there's a deeper layer in all of these issues.. that's why something like MDMA has my attention. I can let you go deep within yourself and lift the dissociation so you can enter where the pain is hidden.. after all dissociation is a defense mechanism to protect us but it hasn't been turned off in our cases. Medication can help, but I don't believe they are the cure. they only create another problem at the end...


I was intrigued about your plan to try MDMA therapy. Do you still have plans on when to try, and if so when? Just curious to learn whether it would benefit.

I saw a documentary on treatment resistant depression responding to Psilocybin (magic mushrooms) treatment in a controlled setting, which had strong results. I have always been afraid of 'trippy' drugs (I wasn't aware of the super high THC strength in the vape I had), but have always favoured 'buzzy' drugs recreationally. That includes MDMA for me which although has both a trippy effect to it, I found to be more of a buzzer, if that makes any sense lol.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Numbed said:


> How long have you been numb ? The Wellbutrin might help and yes it typically doesn't cause sexual dysfunction.


The vape incident happened 2.5 years ago so that was the profound start of DPDR. Having said that, I've only properly noticed the numbing that remains for the last 18 months as the Fluoxetine perhaps masked the numbing or alleviated it somehow.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Stay Young said:


> I was intrigued about your plan to try MDMA therapy. Do you still have plans on when to try, and if so when? Just curious to learn whether it would benefit.
> 
> I saw a documentary on treatment resistant depression responding to Psilocybin (magic mushrooms) treatment in a controlled setting, which had strong results. I have always been afraid of 'trippy' drugs (I wasn't aware of the super high THC strength in the vape I had), but have always favoured 'buzzy' drugs recreationally. That includes MDMA for me which although has both a trippy effect to it, I found to be more of a buzzer, if that makes any sense lol.


Yes, I do definitely have plans to do so if things won't get better.. which I think it won't.. as it things actually get worse over time. I am very cautious and a control freak so trying anything like this is a very big leap for me. I have talked with my therapist and my psychiatrist about it and they all say it's up to me to decide they don't think it's a bad idea though. As studies show that it's very helpful especially for people with PTSD. Ptsd has also a lot of dissociative symptoms, so you could assume it will also help us. I think for many of us we've gone beyond the ptsd spectrum and shut down completely. Trauma is really stored in the body and it has to be released physically, just like mammals do. That's why talking to people who are dissociated have minimal to zero effect. Also MDMA is an empathogen it creates bonding with others and yourself, it resurface blocked emotions and traumas you probably were not aware of on a conscious level. You can create a connection with yourself what we desperately need again. It's also possible you need more than one session to break the dissociation, and for some the dissociation is so strong you need an extra catalyst or another way to break it and MDMA on it's own is not enough. For now I just need to find the courage to take the jump in the unknown which is very hard for me, of course I think about the negatives, what if I get worse etc etc. But yeah maybe I just need to let go of all of that once and for all.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Aridity said:


> Yes, I do definitely have plans to do so if things won't get better.. which I think it won't.. as it things actually get worse over time. I am very cautious and a control freak so trying anything like this is a very big leap for me. I have talked with my therapist and my psychiatrist about it and they all say it's up to me to decide they don't think it's a bad idea though. As studies show that it's very helpful especially for people with PTSD. Ptsd has also a lot of dissociative symptoms, so you could assume it will also help us. I think for many of us we've gone beyond the ptsd spectrum and shut down completely. Trauma is really stored in the body and it has to be released physically, just like mammals do. That's why talking to people who are dissociated have minimal to zero effect. Also MDMA is an empathogen it creates bonding with others and yourself, it resurface blocked emotions and traumas you probably were not aware of on a conscious level. You can create a connection with yourself what we desperately need again. It's also possible you need more than one session to break the dissociation, and for some the dissociation is so strong you need an extra catalyst or another way to break it and MDMA on it's own is not enough. For now I just need to find the courage to take the jump in the unknown which is very hard for me, of course I think about the negatives, what if I get worse etc etc. But yeah maybe I just need to let go of all of that once and for all.


I can completely sympathise with you on being hesitant to try something new which feels a bit radical or more unknown. I think as long as you have the backing of your therapists and psychiatrist and can ensure you do it in the right setting then I'm sure it wouldn't be too harmful even if it didn't work. But I totally get it. 

I feel the same with conventional medication and put off by the reviews and side effects listed on many of them. But ultimately it gets to a point where you have to take some calculated risks if we're to get out of this.

Have you taken any other meds before, and if so what were they? Were they no benefit at all?


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> CBT won't do a lot for dissociation, as it's much more an emotional, physical response rather than a cognitive one. If you are very much connected to yourself and your body CBT could do a lot. You could throw all talk therapy at me in any way shape or form. It won't land, I am a shell, I can't internalize anything. The disconnect has to lift first. I know there's a deeper layer in all of these issues.. that's why something like MDMA has my attention. I can let you go deep within yourself and lift the dissociation so you can enter where the pain is hidden.. after all dissociation is a defense mechanism to protect us but it hasn't been turned off in our cases. Medication can help, but I don't believe they are the cure. they only create another problem at the end...


I've actually usually not found talk-based therapies helpful in general, even pre-dissociation. They don't tend to go to the root. That said, there are a ton of studies on CBT showing that it has quite a good success rate for a lot of things. 

The thing with CBT, though, is that it's about challenging irrational ideas and also challenging yourself to do things differently. Dissociation doesn't have any kind of basis whatsoever in your conscious ideas or thoughts. I just can't see anywhere for CBT to land with this.

The body-based therapies are specifically designed to awaken your responses at the somatic level and are much more likely to succeed with something like this. 

EMDR is difficult with dissociative clients because it's designed to desensitise emotion around distressing events, but there are protocols that can be used with us. Just don't expect the kind of dramatic, relatively easily gained and sustained results that people without dissociation tend to see with this form of therapy. My results with EMDR for my problems pre and post dissociation were chalk and cheese.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Numbed said:


> How have you found it helped you ? The naltrexone I mean.


It's hard to tell because I started taking naltrexone at the same time as starting EMDR 2.0, which made a difference for me (temporarily, again, sadly). I think I may have gotten a slight improvement from the medication. Definitely nothing major.

Studies show a high rate of improvement in dissociative symptoms with this drug though.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> Yes, I do definitely have plans to do so if things won't get better.. which I think it won't.. as it things actually get worse over time. I am very cautious and a control freak so trying anything like this is a very big leap for me. I have talked with my therapist and my psychiatrist about it and they all say it's up to me to decide they don't think it's a bad idea though. As studies show that it's very helpful especially for people with PTSD. Ptsd has also a lot of dissociative symptoms, so you could assume it will also help us. I think for many of us we've gone beyond the ptsd spectrum and shut down completely. Trauma is really stored in the body and it has to be released physically, just like mammals do. That's why talking to people who are dissociated have minimal to zero effect. Also MDMA is an empathogen it creates bonding with others and yourself, it resurface blocked emotions and traumas you probably were not aware of on a conscious level. You can create a connection with yourself what we desperately need again. It's also possible you need more than one session to break the dissociation, and for some the dissociation is so strong you need an extra catalyst or another way to break it and MDMA on it's own is not enough. For now I just need to find the courage to take the jump in the unknown which is very hard for me, of course I think about the negatives, what if I get worse etc etc. But yeah maybe I just need to let go of all of that once and for all.


PTSD and trauma can cause complete shut down, for what it's worth. It did for me. It's more likely to be complex trauma that does this, though. Most people with PTSD aren't like this.

They now recognise a dissociative subtype of PTSD, however. I think it's about 30% of cases, from memory. Could be wrong. 

I also don't know how shut down most of these people are. A lot of people have dissociation without having lost all or almost all capacity to feel, like me and like many people on this forum. I do know I'm an unusual case, from what mental health professionals have told me, but I also know that they do see a few other trauma cases who present similarly to me. It's just that we're outliers.

In The Body Keeps The Score, Bessel van der Kolk talks about his depersonalised trauma clients, who are complex trauma cases and who sound a lot like me. 

He also says how much work we are and how difficult it is to keep the therapy alive with us and how he prays for the sessions to pass quickly. Shitty of him to put that in a book aimed at trauma clients. I don't think he's a very nice person.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Stay Young said:


> I can completely sympathise with you on being hesitant to try something new which feels a bit radical or more unknown. I think as long as you have the backing of your therapists and psychiatrist and can ensure you do it in the right setting then I'm sure it wouldn't be too harmful even if it didn't work. But I totally get it.
> 
> I feel the same with conventional medication and put off by the reviews and side effects listed on many of them. But ultimately it gets to a point where you have to take some calculated risks if we're to get out of this.
> 
> Have you taken any other meds before, and if so what were they? Were they no benefit at all?


I have taken a few meds before, I think one did help me pretty well, but back the depersonalization was way less than what it is now so yeah. But I added another med to the mix lamotrigine and got a bad reaction to it, so that gave me ptsd to medication ander after that I am way to scared to try anything again. I overthink it too much and can’t get past the first week and give up everytime I get to the point of trying something, because the first few days you obviously feel worse, but then I get this thought like what if it stays this bad permanently and then I quit. Meds are fucked up, if they work it’s temporarily most of the time, or they give side effects and extra problems. You almost never hear of people who get on them without any problem use them for the time they need it and get off it again. But I do think they have there place, I have tried, escitalopram, citalopram, lamotrigine (too low dose though 25mg) amisulpride, sertraline, vortioxetine. Only escitalopram and citalopram I gave time to actually do something but still pretty short period like 2 months.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> I've actually usually not found talk-based therapies helpful in general, even pre-dissociation. They don't tend to go to the root. That said, there are a ton of studies on CBT showing that it has quite a good success rate for a lot of things.
> 
> The thing with CBT, though, is that it's about challenging irrational ideas and also challenging yourself to do things differently. Dissociation doesn't have any kind of basis whatsoever in your conscious ideas or thoughts. I just can't see anywhere for CBT to land with this.
> 
> ...


Agreed, EMDR did ZERO to me. Totally useless, nothing came up. Our brains already did EMDR on itself.. I never think about any traumatic event don’t have nightmares or flashbacks never had those either. Just severe anxiety and stress, for YEARS on end.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> PTSD and trauma can cause complete shut down, for what it's worth. It did for me. It's more likely to be complex trauma that does this, though. Most people with PTSD aren't like this.
> 
> They now recognise a dissociative subtype of PTSD, however. I think it's about 30% of cases, from memory. Could be wrong.
> 
> ...


You don’t like him only for that one quote?


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> You don’t like him only for that one quote?


No, there's more to it than that as far as his personality goes. I don't deny his expertise, though.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Regarding treatments, I've just gotten two ideas from a post on this forum. One is Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation and the other is The Linden Method. May be worth investigating.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> Regarding treatments, I've just gotten two ideas from a post on this forum. One is Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation and the other is The Linden Method. May be worth investigating.


I have done rTMS, 5 sessions. Made my symptoms much worse, and I discontinued. I did the regular depression protocol though, I know of one girl who was in the most numb state imaginable, she got cured after 6/7 sessions. So worth a try, the Linden method is crap.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> I have done rTMS, 5 sessions. Made my symptoms much worse, and I discontinued. I did the regular depression protocol though, I know of one girl who was in the most numb state imaginable, she got cured after 6/7 sessions. So worth a try, the Linden method is crap.


Thanks for the information. What else have you tried?


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> Thanks for the information. What else have you tried?


A few medications, regular talk therapy, EMDR. Diets, working out, just trying to living life normally. Other then that not much.


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

It appears The Linden Method is a scam, from what I'm reading.

I've also now read a lot of accounts where distraction works well for people whose depersonalisation isn't trauma-based. Might be worth trying.

I'm not particularly focused on my symptoms on a day to day basis and I've still got them, though. That said, mine are part of a cluster of trauma symptoms and a C-PTSD diagnosis, so I'm in a slightly different boat from a lot of others with these issues.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

Kittymoo said:


> It appears The Linden Method is a scam, from what I'm reading.
> 
> I've also now read a lot of accounts where distraction works well for people whose depersonalisation isn't trauma-based. Might be worth trying.
> 
> I'm not particularly focused on my symptoms on a day to day basis and I've still got them, though. That said, mine are part of a cluster of trauma symptoms and a C-PTSD diagnosis, so I'm in a slightly different boat from a lot of others with these issues.


To be honest I don't know what mine stems from, I do think I have trauma. But I think mine is just from prolonged stress and anxiety. I got multiple diagnosis, GAD, Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, Anxiety disorder. PTSD. Depersonalization/Derealization. I have a hard time with the BPD diagnosis, as my therapist of now does as well we don't agree on that one. I grew up in a household with a lot of fighting shouting, and a mother with Borderline so I guess that's traumatic?


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Aridity said:


> To be honest I don't know what mine stems from, I do think I have trauma. But I think mine is just from prolonged stress and anxiety. I got multiple diagnosis, GAD, Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder, Anxiety disorder. PTSD. Depersonalization/Derealization. I have a hard time with the BPD diagnosis, as my therapist of now does as well we don't agree on that one. I grew up in a household with a lot of fighting shouting, and a mother with Borderline so I guess that's traumatic?


Probably a fair % of people with this have some sort of trauma history tbh. It seems to be linked with anxiety and other issues.


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## Stay Young (Mar 8, 2021)

Kittymoo said:


> It's hard to tell because I started taking naltrexone at the same time as starting EMDR 2.0, which made a difference for me (temporarily, again, sadly). I think I may have gotten a slight improvement from the medication. Definitely nothing major.
> 
> Studies show a high rate of improvement in dissociative symptoms with this drug though.


Have you ever read this article... its worth reading if not, especially the case studies at the bottom. Perhaps an option if the LDN is not effective...





US5013740A - Method for treating emotional numbness and coma - Google Patents


An opiate antagonist or a pharmaceutically acceptable salt thereof is used to treat emotional numbness associated with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and other psychopathologic conditions. Opiate antagonist or a pharmaceutically acceptable salt thereof is also used to treat coma.



patents.google.com


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## Kittymoo (10 mo ago)

Stay Young said:


> Have you ever read this article... its worth reading if not, especially the case studies at the bottom. Perhaps an option if the LDN is not effective...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't seen that, thank you!

A small but quite promising Russian study of Naloxone was done in 2001. I may ask my GP if I can try it.



https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/026988110101500205


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## mrboss2020 (Jan 6, 2022)

What you're experiencing is common symptoms of DP. Its what I get after bad panic attacks....luckily my mind is able to recover. I had a bad DP episode back in 2016 that lasted for 2 years and recently it came back after steroid usage and panic attacks....but my mind is recovering very fast. 

OP I'd get into working out really hard for at least 3x a week. I think the gym and releasing dopamine/serotonin and doing fun activities is really what helps. Even socializing and putting myself through emotional situations really breaks my DP.

May not be a popular answer but shrooms seem to reset my mind each time I do them


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## upandaway (Jan 11, 2016)

Numbed said:


> Does anyone know how this happens? I've been this way for 15 years now. I have accepted it but still searching for answers which I feel I deserve. Who else has no emotions , no anxiety, no connection to anything, can't make memories and everything always feels like we are doing it for the first time. Just never feeling there .


Hi there

Do you also experience physical numbness or lightness? I used to feel disconnected from my body with DP, but this latest version for me my whole body went completely numb and feels like air, no connection whatsoever. And severe lack of connection with the outside world - feels like it all went away or something. 

I have the same thing as you as far as no emotions and no anxiety. DP with anxiety is a lot easier in my opinion. Are your emotions so numb that you literally have no response to things you used to enjoy? Or is it just kind of numbed but you still feel a tiny bit? When im with friends or try cuddling, eating a food I used to like, watching a show I used to like...there's literally NO reaction.


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