# Rene Descartes



## Finders (Oct 18, 2005)

I think therefore I am "Cogito, ergo sum". In the long run, such a long, long run you are very privileged. Unfortunately for Descartes, we broke and dismissed his theory. He has been the forefather of philosophy for centuries with this concept. All he said was 'If I think therefore I must exist.' This dismissed the idea that the self was dreaming or asleep. Have a nice cup of tea with me Rene and i'll prove you as a fraud. Maybe wiki will recognise this sometime. 
Depersonalisation<>(is not equal)Cogito, ergo sum.


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## DownTheRabbitHole (May 30, 2009)

lol dp sufferers... bringing philosephers down one at a time!  
where about in glasgow you from?


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

this awesome intelligent man killed my depersonalized soul


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## DownTheRabbitHole (May 30, 2009)

peachyderanged said:


> this awesome intelligent man killed my depersonalized soul


then find your personali'S'ed(damn americans with there Z's ) soul, should be easier now with the depersonalized soul dead. :lol:


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## Finders (Oct 18, 2005)

Begs the question : Is there any Christians or 'actual' true believers in their religion from any faith? I might suspect that most of us who have DP have lost any concept of a higher being(s) long ago. We might constantly question 'why me' with no answer. Logic dictates that we will never get one, yet this condition insists we ask. It's just one default of the psych we have attained for many reasons. Oh don't put your faith in the links at these websites, there bullocks, healing will come from inside you, eventually.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

Finders said:


> Begs the question : Is there any Christians or 'actual' true believers in their religion from any faith? I might suspect that most of us who have DP have lost any concept of a higher being(s) long ago. We might constantly question 'why me' with no answer. Logic dictates that we will never get one, yet this condition insists we ask. It's just one default of the psych we have attained for many reasons. Oh don't put your faith in the links at these websites, there bullocks, healing will come from inside you, eventually.


THis is going off in a spiritual/philosophy debate, but I have to say, there are many here on the board whose faith keeps them going. Some feel they have lost touch with God, or whatever they feel is their source of strength. I was raised by an atheist. I'd say I am that (basically don't believe in men in white beards and such), and an agnostic -- as I don't know what will happen to me when I die. I'm pessimistic, but I won't know until I get there.

Many here seem to have a close relationship with God. I don't. Never did. Sometimes I would like that. Mother Tersesa spent much of her life feeling she had lost her ability to communicate with God, and actually ... shoot, I should know this too... I believe died without "feeling connected." And yet she continued to act with FAITH though she felt she had lost "connection." Perhaps some with DP here feel they haven't lost Faith, but connection to God. As we feel we have lost connection with friends/family/those we love. But I feel for me the love is still there, it is so distant ... like beauty. I am more numb ... the past few years. Less scared, less introspective, more ... numb.

D
And actually I'm not thinking existential thoughts unless I am in the throes of horrendous DP/DR. Actually the DR has been throwing me off outdoors. I hate really sunny days, heat, summer. My DR goes through the roof.


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## Finders (Oct 18, 2005)

Faith is a post modernist concept affiliated with religion itself. The cause of millions and millions of deaths might I add etc. Aetheists can't have faith, it's contrary to the belief system. Agnostics want to have a god(s) yet never will, they just keep their minds eternally open to something that will never come. I'm sure my psych thinks i'm in 'the Matrix' or something. I'm mean really, how can you describe DP to anyone who has never had it. Of all the threads that have been posted, there is a few common themes, hopelessness, negativity, paranoi,the need to be smart/intelligent, misconception that they have don't have and have wisdom.

anywho, as us Scottish people say, Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom

Up your kilt


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

Finders said:
 

> Faith is a post modernist concept affiliated with religion itself. The cause of millions and millions of deaths might I add etc. Aetheists can't have faith, it's contrary to the belief system. Agnostics want to have a god(s) yet never will, they just keep their minds eternally open to something that will never come. I'm sure my psych thinks i'm in 'the Matrix' or something. I'm mean really, how can you describe DP to anyone who has never had it. Of all the threads that have been posted, there is a few common themes, hopelessness, negativity, paranoi,the need to be smart/intelligent, misconception that they have don't have and have wisdom.
> 
> anywho, as us Scottish people say, Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom
> 
> Up your kilt


Man, this is definitely a religious debate now, but I have to say, "religion" is a set of beliefs and does not necessary include a God/Spiritual being. Atheism is indeed considered a religion - atheists have a belief there is no God and act accordingly, frequently causing as much strife and misery as those with fundamentalist beliefs. There is no time in history when religion has not existed. No antrhopologist/archaeologist/historian has found a culture WITHOUT some form of religion having to do with interpreting what life is about so to speak. Buddhism (which I would most subscribe to) IS a religion (and Buddha was merely a man, not a God). Atheism IS a religion. If you look at the definition of religion, faith, etc. they are different. see http://www.adherents.com

Also, religion cannot be blamed for deaths/wars, though wars have been fought in the NAME of a particular religion, that is not ultimately the true force behind it. Wars have to do with competition for resources at the most basic level for aquisition of land and power. Chimps are known to war. It all goes back to survival.

I'm actually reporting my own post here, as this has become a religious discussion. But I encourage you to go to http://www.adherents.com

And I always use this example of the word religious ...

"Dreamer gets up every day at 6a.m., puts on a pot of Starbucks, takes a shower, has her coffee, then dresses by putting her socks on first. After dressing she taps the floor 8 times, dances a jig, and drives off to work exactly at 7:26am. She has done this religiously for the past twenty years."

Religion is a routine ... it is RITUAL. Many can engage in RITUAL and have no FAITH. Atheism is a set of beliefs and subsequent actions based on those reliefs, more or less fundamentalist.

Also, there is some question if humans were not evolved to have some concept of the spiritual in order to preserve communities, have some sense of law and order. If the need for the spiritual and religion and organization is hard-wired, how can we extract that from our very nature? Also, when individuals have certain neurological disorders they can experience epiphanies, profound religious experiences (say before a seizure) even when they are not people of faith. Why is that capacity in the brain? We don't know why, but it would seem to be there.

Yep, this is a philosophical discussion. Sorry.

But I always like to separate philosophy from medicine. Again, because I came from a family of doctors -- both parents. And my mother was an atheist, very outspoken, and alientated everyone around her with her lectures on how stupid people of faith were -- she was a psychiatrtist! My father wasn't an atheist or a psychiatrist, but he never talked about God, yet he was terrified of dying and I saw this while he was dying. I was there.

D

Also, I have a book on Atheism, edited by S.T. Joshi. Just called Atheism. It cites the writings of many famous people on atheism going back to Lucretius 60 BCE ... that's 60 years "before the Chrisitan era". Many famous writers from Clarence Darrow, Darwin, Nietzsche, on and on and on up to feminists in the 1900s.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

Well, I reported myeslf, LOL to have someone move this to the Spiritual debate section. :shock: Sorry!


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