# to those who have recovered, PLEASE REPLY! Noone is replying



## Mani (Mar 27, 2008)

Hi, 
My name's Mani, 28, female, from UK. Ive had constant dp/dr for just over 5 years. For the past few years, I was coping with the condition by just living in an unreal world, going about things but not really feeling connnected and just thinking of things in a unreal way, can you relate? recently, something has changed in me. I realise that this is not the way out and have truly started to focus outwards as much as i could, although very often i still end up stuck in my unreal thoughts, analysing peoples strangeness etc and my anxiety levels have been very high. This is weird as i felt less outwardly stressed before i started doing this, almost like i was making dp/dr my world. Over the past few days I have had moments where I have felt a bit more real, and I feel it is a different stage in the illness for me, i.e. i feel i am lurking a bit closer to reality and would really like some guidance as to how to move foward. did anyone go through this stage? When I do feel a bit more real, how can i avoid slipping back into my thoughts? I would really appreciate any advice/feedback.

Thanks,
Mani


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## DEUSX (Oct 30, 2006)

Dear Mani,

you are already experiencing the fact that 'focussing outwards' is doing the job. However, you should try to figure out as well(besides of getting rid of DP/DR) what your real goals in life are. And to focus yourself outwards on that goals (act upon it). This is the only way to start living again (and DP/DR will disappear). As DP/DR might sometimes do the trick for what we have it (for example after a car accidence) it can become (in addition to the symptom) the reason for not going on and hence increasing the level of intensity of the symptom.

DP/DR tells you two things 1) you are not on the right track (some call it destiny, some call it being yourself) and 2) that you are scared to move in the right direction. Choose your path and go on.


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## Mani (Mar 27, 2008)

Hi Deusx

Firstly, thank you so much for the advice and for getting back to me. You are right. I have been trying to be more active and to stop running away from things and fearing the dp/dr so much, keep trying to remind myself that it is just a thought/feeling, nothing else, it is NOT reality. Reality is outside, but when the symptoms get worse, I find that I go through the same line of thought ie, am i real, why this? why that? which makes me sink into myself more, i know i am my own culprit. Simple things are so hard e.g just phoned my car insurance company to renew insurance and i felt totally outside myself to the point where the women on the phone just seemed like a voice in the distance. I dont want to take meds but wonder sometimes that they may help me to feel more consistent. how did u get better?

Mani


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## lalaland (Mar 22, 2008)

Hi Mani, thanks for posting. When you say "focussing outwards" what do you mean? I once found thinking about really happy memories that evoked a pleasant emotional response in me made me feel more real because I've recently learnt that my derealisation is heavily rooted in feeling unsafe and unwanted. Also sitting with the feelings and not blocking them. Like letting yourself _really_ cry, or laugh or even awkwardness or discomfort. Maybe that will help? I'm not sure of the outcome myself yet because I've only just reached that point. I'm not sure what to do with the feelings when they come on but I've found letting them be instead of dissociating to get away from them for "safety" is making me experience life just that little bit more. I hope that's relevant! :?


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## Mani (Mar 27, 2008)

Hi, by focussing outwards I just mean not thinking about how im feeling all the time and focussing on things going on around me and trying to interact with others as much as possible. Dont get me wrong, this is a very hard thing to do when youre feeling so weird, and ive been having a very tough time lately but it can help, ive been having more moments of reality or sometimes feeling closer to how i used to feel before all this. They are still moments but im hoping these are signs of things to come.

Mani


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## lalaland (Mar 22, 2008)

That's great news! I've been having moments too, it brings so much hope! I had one tonight as I was driving but it feels so lonely to be outside of my thoughts so I tend to fall back in to them. Do you find that too? I had anothermoment where I sung to a song without thinking about my singing and it felt great coz I knew it was just flowing from that part of myself that I would call "me"... who I don't think Ive been well aquainted with for awhile. But the annoying thing was as soon as I realised this I started thinking again and it went away. boo hoo.


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## Mani (Mar 27, 2008)

Yeah can definitely relate to that. I keep having these moments of almost clarity but seem to make them go away by thinking about them too much. I think the key is to not analyse and just accept all the weird thoughts/feelings. I really hate feeling like i havent done anything, or when u try and recall something that u did just a while ago it seems really weird? do you get this too? how do u deal with it? are u on meds? im not taking anything apart from vitamins/supplements. not sure about meds but when i get really desperate i think why not.


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## DEUSX (Oct 30, 2006)

Dear Mani,

sorry that I am replying this late, but I am not often here on the forum.

To explain my case: due to circumstances in my youth (only child, not allowed to go outside to play outside with other children) I spent a lot of time alone and I developed very strong analytical skills. In social settings I was scared (because I did not have the toolbox to deal with social occurences). But by analyzing the behaviour of others I was able to copy 'effective' behaviour (though it was not the real me).

Anyway, I started to apply these tactics to every situation which scared me or which I rather would not do. I had clear goals, wishes en needs, but as I was too scared (often) to take action (make the move) I tended to get stuck in the analysis phase. And the more I analyzed the less I was actually living (except for in my head of course) and the more I felt frustrated which triggered even more analysis and so on...until I was suddenly hit by a very strange feeling: DP/DR. DP/DR in my case was thus a reaction to fear and avoidance behaviour (analysis paralysis in my case) resulting in neglecting my needs (and hence not really living MY life). I constructed a jar around myself by this behaviour and was very frustrated because I could see others fulfilling their needs' which I also had.

Anyway, in the beginning I was totally focussed on eliminating DP/DR. However, after a lot of therapy sessions (confrontational, CBT) I learned that by focussing on my real needs and taking action (instead of analyzing, or just neglecting the analysis pattern) the sheer fact that I was moving on (hence fulfilling my needs and therefore living) I was becoming more myself and that DP/DR with every step I made started to lift more. I am not here to say that this was a very easy proces (apart from taking myself seriously I had to break old patterns by taking action and moving with fear). But it was very rewarding and apart from ridding myself from DP/DR I was back on track with life.


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## gogu (Jan 15, 2008)

Hi DEUSX,

I totally relate to your experience and your feelings, my life experience, especially my childhood was also under the "shadow" of isolation, my parents never let me go out in my early years and i had very few friends. When I got into school(7 years), i was always shy, scared and just couldn't do with socializing. Although in time I started getting used to society it always felt like something forced, like I was forcing myself to socialize, to be accepted by others and in many cases I wasn't. This interior battle added to anxiety and complexes and after a very traumatic period of my life, the DP snapped and it totally changed my life. Now i am still in "it", anxiety is very disturbing, odd feelings, socializing goes from one extreme to another and I just can't find my place and peace of mind. I really admire you for recovering, maybe you could tell me more about it..Cheers


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## DEUSX (Oct 30, 2006)

Thnx Gogu for asking the right questions to improve my story  . I will use a couple of your quotes to elaborate on my story.

'Although in time I started getting used to society it always felt like something forced, like I was forcing myself to socialize, to be accepted by others and in many cases I wasn't.' In my case it did not feel like I was not accepted. I was accepted but I wanted it all. I wanted the most beautiful girl, to have the most popular friends, and now the best jobs etc. If this premisse was not true I would simply blame myself and start the analysis proces again on how to perfectionize myself to get it (hence to depersonalize). Perfection was my goal (although in that moment I did not have a clue that I was perfectionistic).

This interior battle added to anxiety and complexes and after a very traumatic period of my life, the DP snapped and it totally changed my life.

Anxiety and complexes block you from reaching your real goals and hence you feel in the middle between what is rationally normal and what your feelings are telling you. If you neglect certain feelings they will grow bigger and bigger and will erupt on certain occassions. Especially when on drugs or alcohol these feelings will use the fact that someone has dropped his shield as an opening. The next day (when the curtains close) a feeling of increased DP/DR will be sensed (the jar has to be put down, or the geenie in the bottle). In my case DP/DR snapped in the moment I left my parent's home, went to another city to study and was confronted with myself, alone, in a totally different environment but with the same problems and with the same avoidance behaviour. However, I could not fall back on my parents or any other safe harbour and hence increased my avoidance behaviour (and distanced myself from ME even more).

I really admire you for recovering, maybe you could tell me more about it..Cheers.

In my case it was simply doing all the things I wanted to do but I was too afraid to do. To start living and hence stop thinking and therefore start living more. The positive spiral so to say.


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## Mani (Mar 27, 2008)

Hi Deusx
Thanks for your reply. Very helpful. Was wondering did u find it difficult focussing on your goals when feeling dp/dr'd, i.e. did u still feel in touch with what u wanted? I feel like i have been so immersed in dp that i have forgotten what life is really about. And feel so tired to the point that i have no energy left to think about what i want anymore. Any goals i may have would be very much forced at this time, is this how u started off? Things are such a blur. i think i am getting better because i am starting to feel more like i used to but the unreal/foggy/detached feeling is still there all the time but severity decreases and sometimes i feel very close to how i used to although the memory of it all is so overwhelming. does this improve with time? Thanks for taking the time out to reply. appreciate it.

Mani


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

Trying to be someone you're not is a HUGE trigger.

I realized this today when I felt funny about going to work, when I really didn't need to be at work (kind of a workaholic at times) and I actually needed to go to a 12 step meeting for some sanity...I think it helped a lot, because once I was back on track my feelings weren't being ignored. I (thank God) really don't get much alarmed anymore, and I hopefully won't in the future..I'm able to be more like "oh...hm, i'm feeling a bit off so I must be overstreching my bounds somehow".

Also, I don't know if anyone has ever listened to me on this but 12 step programs have absolutely. saved. my. life. Before I attended about 200 AA/NA/Alanon meetings in a 90 day period, I was on a suicide hotline (one that I called because the previous suicide hotline had turned into a different call center. I was actually rejected from a suicide hotline! How low could I get??? ). The next night, still very very very suicidal, I picked up a copy of the AA book someone let me have for free (A family member introduced me to AA when she gave a speech there). I swear to you- you can go to aa.org and read the big book online and read the story "The Man Who Mastered Fear"- (click read the big book online and scroll till you get to the stories part)...I don't know what would have happened if instead of reading that book I tried another suicide hotline. I then attended every AA meeting I could possibly attend, which introduced me to OA (because I also dealt with eating disorders) and then through a freak occurance I landed with the current therapist I now have. NONE of this would have happened had I not gone to AA.

I'm not an alcoholic.

It doesn't matter. I go to open AA meetings all the time. Therapy alone might have taken much longer to make a dent in my life...the meetings accentuate the therapy and vice versa. Also Al-anon is really great for self-help.

......
Overstretching boundaries include
saying "yes" when you mean "no" (to ANYTHING- an event to go to, a sexual advance, a date, a friendship, anything. your wants and needs are important and some of us didn't grow up feeling that way. DP/DR is an alarm that you're saying yes to people because you fear they will get angry with you or reject you.)

Engaging too much in work, obsessing over work/money/school.

It's one of the Ten Commandments to keep the Sabbath holy, and there's a damn good reason why. I started exprimenting with going to community Shabbats (I'm Jewish) and I understood the connections you make by attending an intimate weekly gathering where the focus is on something greater than yourself. A place with way less negativity and less gossip, singing and praying, etc. It didn't matter what I thought of religion. Once I caught the essence of taking a day off from the world of constantly grappling for the material things I think I needed helped me bond with people and gain perspective. If you're Jewish or interested in Judaism, you can research Shabbat on the Internet, or read some Jewish texts on the matter. Harold S. Kushner (Why Bad Things Happen to Good People, The Lord is My Shepard) is a good author to read. Very readable and comforting, like a good friend.

.....

also, life will bring many people across your path, and you intuitively know who you click with and need to be around, and who you don't and shouldn't be around. Pay attention to these things. You need people in your life that you click with to form important bonds. I feel (and am so grateful for this) that I "click" with my therapist and this helps me feel better and makes therapy effective.

Do I feel better and super and great and real every day? Well, I don't know if there's some magic formula. I still take all my meds but they alone would have not done much to change my life. I have a gazillion connections in the 12 step programs and a LOT of people in AA have dealt with DP/DR feelings. the two diseases are very similar. That's why I recommend going to the open meetings. (Closed ones are for alcoholics).

Look, I really shouldn't rattle off too much here, but this is a free, effective, supportive place to go to and I NEVER could feel peace ANYWHERE without being on some drug before I came to an AA meeting (where I could feel good for at least an hour a day, then the hours multiply, then you realize you're never even bored anymore!) I think I have a lot more faith and let things take their course than I used to and I realize I grew up in a sick environment that I was trying to fit into. I was trying to be the star, the superacheiver, etc. to get approval...and I couldn't do it. Then I met entire groups of people in multiple countries and cities, who, along with my therapist, the people on this board, and others have helped me live again.

Am I recovered? wait, before i answer...

But the thing is, it doesn't matter now. I never thought I would say it, but _recovery from dp doesn't matter to me anymore_. It's amazing. I hardly ever think about it. I think about issues in my life i need to correct (which are the roots of dp anyway), by the grace of whatever powers may be I have not taken a narcotic painkiller to get high since July of 2005, and ALL my relationships have improved- family, friends, opposite sex, etc...I don't want to jinx myself but i've recently become very happy and settled being single. I can have guy friends and I have walked away from unhealthy situations before they got out of hand. Simply...amazing. Never thought it would happen.

Am I recovered then? Not yet. I don't know. Depersonalization is not so much a disease in the medical sense to me as a journey to get back to who you really are. And I'm on that journey so recovery from this "disease" is inevitable to me. I mean, why shoudn't I ever be able to fully be me? It just takes time and courage.

I repeat, it doesn't matter whether I have dp or not, anxiety or not, lung cancer or not (acutally that would kind of devastate me)...it just doesn't matter anymore. I don't have to feel fantastic to enjoy life. I'm so much closer to so many people now. I receive all sorts of help and get through situations that I never thought i could get through. I even know how to speak Russian. Imagine that. Life is very rich and I've become deeper and more involved in local communities of interest and I enjoy NPR. Ok that was kind of random.

Well, I hope some of this works. DP/DR are hell and very scary and I feel for everyone here and it makes me almost cry to see people with dreams cut short at a young age. However, I have also seen rebirth and new dreams rise out of the ashes so I really don't look too much at the past anymore and where I "should" be. I'm here. Now.

And the more recovered you get, the more you're OKAY with setbacks and mistakes and not getting it right, which is another miracle btw...

you start to realize also that the best miracles are ones you never thought you wanted!


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