# dp as enlightenment/ parallel consciousness



## adg5g (May 21, 2007)

this may be a bit abstract, and worse, it may just be my way of coping with my dp....ive wondered if dp is some higher or at least different level of consciousness. i hate having dp as much as the next sufferer and things sure dont seem any clearer than they used to (in fact things seem less clear now). however we must admit that some things about DP are strange: dp sufferers tend to be of relatively high intelligence, some get DP after meditation or hallucinogens, some have compared DP to a kind of enlightenment, and DP seems to affect how we view AND think about the world around us....for those of you familiar with plato's allegory of the cave, compare dp to someone who lived their entire life in a cave(knowing of nothing beyond the cave) and finally emerged into the outside "real" world. imagine how overwhelming and strange all of the light and stimuli would be. imagine how crazy this person would sound if they returned to the cave and told others of this outside world. anyways, what if the detachment we feel is us being untethered from existence just enough to see it for what it really is? what if somehow we are seeing everything in a more elemental way? things do not seem familiar, they seem foreign because we are seeing some kind of archetype or blueprint instead of the "final form". maybe we are feeling less emotion because our minds are "trimming away" any superfluous or subjective thought processes that may cloud our perceptions. maybe when we look at our own face in the mirror, it looks so unfamiliar because something is telling us that we are looking at nothing more than one of trillions of transient and individually insignificant organisms that exist in time-space. maybe we've stopped giving a damn about our jobs/hobbies/relationships because we're finally figuring out that all of these "intricacies" of life only exist to pass the time.... i wont call dp a gift. if it is a gift its a shitty one. but there must be a reason it exists. maybe it is preparing us for something...i hope im wrong....please let me know what you think.


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

Perhaps for some, but I think for most, that reason is a bit of a cop out. I certainly didnt get enlightened by abusing alcohol and suffering from anxiety/nervous breakdown that triggered DP/DR. I find it hard to believe that is a parralel consciousness. But like I say perhaps it is for some others, but definetely not me.


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## Pancthulhu (May 27, 2006)

Well yeah, I'd say that it is a different level of consciousness in that you're experiencing an 'unusual' brain state, but that's not to say it's anything mystical.
If you feel like the world around you isn't real and you don't feel connected to anything that can't be enlightenment.


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## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

Though what you say as it being a gift I would definetely agree with. If it weren't for all that I wouldn't have grown as much as I have and would still be doing the old same thing abusing my body, disrespecting myself and others and generally being a knob. Im glad for the experience as tough as it is but I know it will get better and I have learnt so much from it. So I am grateful for the lessons I learnt. Thanks DP!!!


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## jimmyb (May 9, 2007)

Yea I've learnt never to take drugs again and also to leave the past in the past, think of the present moment.

DR is not an experience to be rekoned with!


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

There is no way of denying that DP is a parallel state of consciousness. Whether or not it's enlightenment is something only you can determine for yourself. There are people on this site that will try to convince you that 'enlightenment' is a rigid term defined by some kind of specific criteria, but ultimately it's a personal experience.


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## jimmyb (May 9, 2007)

A strange and unfamilliar state of consciousness I tell ya - very disturbing but It's so rewarding when you accept it and see progress everyday

Tears of joy >>>


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

What always seemed strange to me was the idea that enlightenment, if it exists, HAS to be some kind of inherently blissful experience. As far as I'm concerned if enlightenment is nothing but some kind of state achieved by following some arbitrary rules, followed by a dopey, happy, blissed out feeling, then what kind of knowledge is really being gained? Certainly not knowledge about how the world really is, because the world is characterized as much by suffering as it is by happiness, if not moreso.

This is all just banter anyway, because there is no way to confirm the concept of enlightenment and it is, as previously stated, pretty much up to the individual to decide whether he or she is "enlightened" or living in a better state than they were before. No one can tell you the state of your spiritual knowledge or wisdom, they can only tell you about your symptoms and potential illnesses as defined by society. People can either choose to live life according to societies rigid standards, live life as a completely over the edge spiritualist, or hopefully find some happy balance.


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## adg5g (May 21, 2007)

i agree fairly wholeheartedly with that. i do think that the idea of enlightenment and all of that mess is very subjective. at this point i regret even using the word enlightenment in my little rant at all. but the part that i still find intriguing is the idea that many people assume that if there was another level of consciousness, or enlightenment, or revealation (or insert your own vague description here) that it would be enjoyable or reassuring. to me this is all hypothetical and i dont actually believe that ive transcended consciousness or anything like that, but I believe that if I ever did theres a possibility that it would be a disorienting, uncomfortable, and regrettable experience. history, philosophy and literature are all full of examples of people who suffer for reaching a new level of awareness (i already mentioned the allegory of the cave).


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## Digitalbath (Aug 13, 2004)

i used to associate this dp with enlightenment, that was at first. but now i believe it is just the opposite. in plato's allegory of the cave, i can say that before i had dp i was living outside the cave, and when i got dp, i started to live inside the cave,,, trying desperately from then on, to see and have a peek at the reality outside the cave, not just the shadows inside it.


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

OK, lets just assume for a minute that DP/DR is enlightenment.
My question to you would be what have you learned from this new found enlightenment?

3098


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## Guest (May 31, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> There is no way of denying that DP is a parallel state of consciousness. Whether or not it's enlightenment is something only you can determine for yourself. There are people on this site that will try to convince you that 'enlightenment' is a rigid term defined by some kind of specific criteria, but ultimately it's a personal experience.


man, wise words, nothing to add.


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## jrsmite (May 18, 2007)

I quote from a Phish song, "The Squirming Coil"...

The Squirming Coil of sunset
I keep within my reach
Tried yesterday to get away
and hitchhiked to the beach

I saw Satan on the beach
trying to catch a ray
He wasn't quite the speed of light
and the squirming coil
it got away....

The muscles flex the mother's ring
She fastens children to her king
and sends him down the crooked street
When he returns, the birth's complete

Jimmy holds the Tannis root
The forest's tasty nectar shoot
The sun tips off the monarch's suit
from sequined sash to shiny boot

"I'd like to lick the coil some day
Like Icarus, who had to pay
with melting wax and feathers brown
He tasted it on his way down"

Stun the puppy!
Burn the whale!
Bark a scruff and go to jail!
Forge the coin and lick the stamp!
Little Jimmy's off to camp


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Yes, I see enlightenment as being a psychophysiological process that happens in the subtle body. Experiences are associated with changes in the subtle body I believe.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

Pollyanna 3098 said:


> OK, lets just assume for a minute that DP/DR is enlightenment.
> My question to you would be what have you learned from this new found enlightenment?
> 
> 3098


I don't really know what enlightenment is, but I know that the world as it is perceived by the vast majority of individuals is limited in scope and confined to a few preset ideas of what it means to be happy and what material or emotional goals must be met before this happiness can be achieved. I think mental illness robs you of your ability to lead a normal life, while simultaneously endowing upon you the realization that reality is malleable, that what the brain interprets to be reality is honed down to a particular socially defined schema. This is characterized by what is necessary to lead an economically and socially productive life according to the way that the world is presently organized.

I think that the brain is remarkably adaptive and is fit to live in a variety of circumstances. Some of these circumstances are difficult for us to understand because we are so far away from them in place and in time. A prehistoric hunter-gatherer, if dropped into the middle of NYC would not be able to cope with barrage of sensory stimulation and artifice that is so divorced from his conception of what the world is or can possibly be.

If DP is "enlightened", then it is enlightenment about the varieties of conscious experience. The realization that the brain does not have to be one way, geared toward one function, or tied down to any particular space or time. I think that different people of different times had subsequent characteristics of their nervous system that allowed them to function in their environment. I don't think any particular way of being, save those that are intentionally suicidal or homicidal, are necessarily wrong. And they are only diseased insomuch as they prohibit one from living a full life in the present circumstances. Whether or not you ar enlightened is a choice, if you hate your life and want to bring yourself within the range of acceptable behavior and expectations then you are diseased. If you are fine with the way you are and can survive that way, then you are not.


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## Guest (May 31, 2007)

Enlightenment to me is the answer to all those questions you wished to be answered. DR/DP only makes more questions.


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## Beth (Sep 27, 2004)

Something I've always thought about, since meditation was a big factor in me developing DP. It comes up a lot on the board, and people always rubbish it, but I think it's worth talking about. On the whole I've found that pathologising my feelings has had a negative impact on my attempts to reconnect to reality and live a decent life. I prefer to see these past few years (and however many more there are to come) as something that I can learn from, whether or not I ever completely surmount it. I know this is just straightforwardly untrue for a lot of other people, and I don't want to upset anyone, but I feel like writing about the things I've been thinking about in case they are helpful to anyone in a similar situation to mine:

I don't know that enlightenment exists, it makes it sound like an unchanging state that you can reach and then be safe from the world. But I think you can learn a better way of relating to the world than through motivations based on only fear and pleasure. And the best I've ever felt, in my life, including pre-DP (including Christmas as a child and first kisses and all of that), has been when I've been in a state something like DP, but in some fundamental way very different. It's something that it's hard to formulate thoughts about, but a few things I've thought about seem to lead to some kind of coherent framework for dealing with DP.

First, the idea of extroverted, as opposed to, introverted mysticism. I can't now find the name of the writer I was reading on this, I think it was a dead Bishop. There are two kinds of mystical experience, which have many elements in common, but one encompasses physical reality whereas in the other the external world fades away. This way of talking fits my own experiences perfectly. I've had some blissful experiences that sort of go 'through' the fear of dp, and just leave me feeling like I'm suspended in space, with no body, barely a mind, let alone a world with space and time to move around in. And very pleasant it was too, but I've had an equally intense experience that instead of tearing me away from the world just makes me feel ever more connected to my surroundings until I've reached the same feeling of all-encompassing unity and truth, but by my mental boundaries reaching out rather than sinking in.
RD Laing, in "The Divided Self" puts forward a similar idea. He talks about the process by which depressed or anxious people withdraw from the world, again the idea of narrowing the boundaries of one's personal experience of reality. His ideas are more complicated than that, and I found the whole book really worth reading, but anyway, essentially it echoes the introverted/extroverted mysticism thing, but concentrating just on the pathological states that introversion is related to.

I've seen my DP in these boundaries-of-self terms for a while, but of course it doesn't really help in getting over it since it really just restates the problem - try to connect with reality. Which is where I started. But what is useful is that it seems to tie in with things I've learnt through personal experience about meditation and DP in a way that becomes practically useful.

I found quite early on that I could sometimes change the unpleasant feeling of having too much energy in my head by focussing on 'pulling down' that energy into my chest. When I did this I felt less anxious, usually still uncomfortably aware of the terror I might slip into, but slightly more capable of ignoring or even confronting it. A couple of times it even had the effect of making me feel real. Not 'normal' again, but as real as normal, maybe even more so, and completely content. I still want to find a decent book on chakras, the only ones I've got are so full of dross about fortune-telling and magic stones that I can hardly get through them, but there's something very accurate about the general way of thinking. It seems to be a commonplace of New Agey books that it is a mistake to meditate too much 'in the head,' especially if you are inexperienced and don't have a teacher. And that the remedy for any bad experiences (often things such as 'pressure in head,' 'forehead tingling,' etc. are listed) due to that is to meditate with your heart. Then there's stuff about the heart chakra connecting the lower chakras with the higher ones, which for me echoes a feeling I have that I only ever escape my over-analytical dped mind when I'm in a situation that only demands instinctual responses (like extreme sports), but it feels almost like a different person has these experiences and then dissolves in a dp-haze. The only time I seem to make my thinking self and my acting self join up is when I feel love for the people and things around me.

So in my experience it is having a strong sense of love (I mean this as an actual feeling, a physical thing, not the abstract idea 'I love everything') that forces an expansion of my boundaries of self outwards from the kernel of personhood somewhere in the recesses of my brain, into my body, into the physical world. This is something that I can actually work on doing, far more than just the vague aim I had before of needing to 'get back to reality.' Things I've found helpful so far - I meditate with my heart, never my mind. I try to live more in accordance with my principles, but also to actually feel the reasons why I don't want to do something, not just to think them. I've been trying to deal more honestly with other people and myself. I try to spend more time with people I do really love, rather than with people who I can only stand when drunk, even if they do live nearer. And trying to do all of those things, and keeping in mind the idea of reconnecting by loving rather than thinking, does seem to have a good effect. I'm not saying it's a cure, I'm still completely fucked up, but I feel like I've got a way to work through to a different way of experiencing the world. Before, whenever I got close to feeling normal, I'd 'accidentally' meditate myself right back into it because it seemed as if 'real life' was missing the point. This way of looking at things means that I can feel it's been worth it, I don't have to turn my back on the overwhelming sense of truth and beauty that I've experienced, but I can still work steadily away from the hell that I found them in.

Apologies for the long post. I'm also sorry about the phrase "reconnecting by loving rather than thinking" but it is actually the key to what I'm trying to say, and I couldn't find a less twee wording.

Hello, last person still reading.


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## Beth (Sep 27, 2004)

And a short post.

Just noticed this bit in the first post:



> maybe we've stopped giving a damn about our jobs/hobbies/relationships because we're finally figuring out that all of these "intricacies" of life only exist to pass the time


I think the main thing I was trying to say with all those words was that that sense of 'something in this must be so important' that a number of us share can be retained without the loneliness, the fear or even the depersonalization. Life is all we can be sure of, so please don't think that dp is in any way 'right' about it being so empty. Jobs and hobbies and relationships don't just pass the time, they are the time, but if I'd never experienced dp I don't think I'd realise how important it is to me to make sure they all rest firmly on a common ground, rather than being fragmentary ways of pleasure-seeking.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2007)

Beth said:


> I'm also sorry about the phrase "reconnecting by loving rather than thinking" but it is actually the key to what I'm trying to say, and I couldn't find a less twee wording.
> 
> Hello, last person still reading.


im still reading . i know exactly what you mean with reconnecting by loving rather than thinking. it needs no further explanation (for me that is).
i have found a new connection recently to a truth that initially was somewhat distorted in my mind for years on end. being able to connect with that new reality (has nothing to do with enlightenment btw) is almost dissolving the depersonalization, can't explain it any better. interesting post you wrote and im a fan of RD Laing. 8)


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## jrsmite (May 18, 2007)

> I still want to find a decent book on chakras, the only ones I've got are so full of dross about fortune-telling and magic stones that I can hardly get through them, but there's something very accurate about the general way of thinking.


I saw a psychic for my latest birthday, she said I don't need anxiety meds and that she could heal me. She recommended this book, Wheels of Light that I bought. Looks pretty good. I'm going to read it and practice the meditations, and then when I know more about the chakras go back and see her. Good luck with that Beth!


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## closetome (Nov 16, 2006)

Saying that dp is like enlightenment is absolute load of bollocks....I can't even begin to understand why you would think it's the same thing.....

The only similartie is with dp and meditation

with dp you ruminate over and over about how to be free of it but you just need to let go

and it's the same with meditation you think and think but the only way is to let go

love lonely pantie monster, this is my master's account...I just managed to escape from the linen closet for a while.... :lol:


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## Beth (Sep 27, 2004)

mayo - Thanks for your reply. It's always good to know that someone else understands what you're trying to say with things like this. I've found too that sometimes understanding something in a new way has a lot of power against dp, even if it's not something directly related to it (although, what isn't fundamentally?). RD Laing is great, although i'm not so sure about his poetry.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Beth I know what you mean by getting out of your head and focusing on love, I find it especialy helps to do that before sleep and I usualy wake up in a decent mood if I can do it well.



Beth said:


> I found quite early on that I could sometimes change the unpleasant feeling of having too much energy in my head by focussing on 'pulling down' that energy into my chest. When I did this I felt less anxious, usually still uncomfortably aware of the terror I might slip into, but slightly more capable of ignoring or even confronting it. A couple of times it even had the effect of making me feel real.


I have been looking at different meditation and energy techniques for many years and the most beneficial ones I have found are ones called Chaoyi Fanhuan Qigong where the whole purpose is to flush your energy down your body away from your head, I would seriously recommend looking into it by the description of your symptoms it could really help.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

If this is enlightenment then I'm missing a huge chunk of information. Who may I write to in order to complain?


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