# How to cope when life can't be proven to be real



## jaclynrose (Jul 13, 2013)

Hey, I'm new here although I have been dealing with derealization since 2nd grade, and am now 18 years old. Ever since the thought has first came into my head, IT HAS CONSTANTLY BEEN THERE. I always feel it there in the back of my mind, the thought that life isn't real, even when I'm occupied by other things. This is why I'm constantly looking for a distraction, whether it be the computer, TV, sleeping (which I do a lot), or playing video games.

I'm rambling on now though, let me just get to my point here which is how do you get these thoughts out of your mind, when there is no possible way of proving the thoughts to be irrational, in other words no way for anyone to prove that life is real? I feel as though you need to prove your fears to be irrational in order to get past them, but for us I don't see how that is possible 

Please don't recommend medication, I am already on 20mg Lexapro, and have been for the last 4 years.


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## Hosscat (Oct 23, 2012)

Is the Lexapro the only thing you've tried? Have you tried therapy, ocd techniques? Do these thoughts make you anxious? Behavioral distraction is a type of avoidance in ocd, and just enables, not treat the problem.

You said you've felt derealization since the 2nd grade, is that how long the thought has been there?


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## jaclynrose (Jul 13, 2013)

Hosscat said:


> Is the Lexapro the only thing you've tried? Have you tried therapy, ocd techniques? Do these thoughts make you anxious? Behavioral distraction is a type of avoidance in ocd, and just enables, not treat the problem.
> 
> You said you've felt derealization since the 2nd grade, is that how long the thought has been there?


I have also tried Paxil (made it worse) and was put on Abilify but only took the samples and wasnt able to continue bc it turned out to be too much money. I've been to 5 therapists since 2nd grade and it helped as a child, but now that I'm older I feel like it doesn't do much and I hate talking to them.

I have realized that avoiding doesn't help at all, but I have no idea how to face this fear.

And yes, the thought has been there since 2nd grade, I've always been the type to think too deeply into things.

Thanks for the reply


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## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

I struggled for several months worried that my life was unreal. Finally I was able to counter the thought by realizing this:

My life will be here for me whether or not I believe it's real. Thinking it's a dream changes nothing but my own thoughts, the outside reality stays the exact same. If it were a dream, changing your thoughts that way would wake you up. Because this reality puzzle has no definitive answer, you are free to choose what you believe about it's nature, but either way you are alive and in it. The vast majority of people believe their lives are real and live them happily. It is also the most logical choice, the most likely to be true. Believe the thing that makes you happy.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2013)

We're programmed for our fear to have a reason. So, when we are afraid because of anxiety or stress, we do not recognize them as causing our fear because we expect fear to be caused by things with form, physical threats, or terrifying ideas. When we have fear caused by anxiety and don't recognize it as such we look for other explanations, with nothing physically threatening in the environment we start to ask ourselves scary questions and think of terrifying things to justify the fear we feel.

You are not afraid of reality being unreal, you are afraid because of anxiety, but since you do not accept that this fear is coming from anxiety you fabricated this fear of the universe being unreal to give the anxious fear a purpose and reason for existing.

You need to accept and understand that any fear that leads to these thoughts is purely from anxiety, then you won't have any reason to have these thoughts because your fear has a proper source and explanation.

Bottom line is that people can't be just afraid, they need something to fear.


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## jaclynrose (Jul 13, 2013)

pennh10 said:


> I struggled for several months worried that my life was unreal. Finally I was able to counter the thought by realizing this:
> 
> My life will be here for me whether or not I believe it's real. Thinking it's a dream changes nothing but my own thoughts, the outside reality stays the exact same. If it were a dream, changing your thoughts that way would wake you up. Because this reality puzzle has no definitive answer, you are free to choose what you believe about it's nature, but either way you are alive and in it. The vast majority of people believe their lives are real and live them happily. It is also the most logical choice, the most likely to be true. Believe the thing that makes you happy.


Thank you, I really like your advice


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## jaclynrose (Jul 13, 2013)

Antimony said:


> We're programmed for our fear to have a reason. So, when we are afraid because of anxiety or stress, we do not recognize them as causing our fear because we expect fear to be caused by things with form, physical threats, or terrifying ideas. When we have fear caused by anxiety and don't recognize it as such we look for other explanations, with nothing physically threatening in the environment we start to ask ourselves scary questions and think of terrifying things to justify the fear we feel.
> 
> You are not afraid of reality being unreal, you are afraid because of anxiety, but since you do not accept that this fear is coming from anxiety you fabricated this fear of the universe being unreal to give the anxious fear a purpose and reason for existing.
> 
> ...


I really like your answer, it gave me a whole new perspective on everything. It actually makes sense for me since I was very young when it started, and not understanding the whole idea of anxiety, I would just look for something to fear


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2013)

Glad I could help so much! I wish I realized this sooner myself. I had issues with being a little hypochondriac when I was much younger, but it was just the fall out from my anxiety at the time.


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## wonderlandme (May 22, 2011)

I also have this fear, in fact i even wonder sometimes If I died and it's just my spirit floating around. I have to keep talking and reminding myself that if things were not real, pain would not exist either. If i was dead, i would not be feeling pain. Such as physical ailments or even emotional pain. For me, pain is a reminder that i am real, that this is real. I hope you find your way, good luck


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## Swansea (Jun 11, 2013)

Did you have any trauma happen to you as a child? Or were in a stressful environment? A lot of DP is triggered my trauma whether that be anxiety, panic attacks, physical trauma, emotional, unstable living situation, sexual abuse, etc. It is your brains way of protection you. Have you thought about EMDR therapy its less about talk and helps your brain process traumatic events. Also, writing about trauma and creating narrative sometimes helps create a healthier ego state there are a lot of therepeuitc books online. I would look for family systems therapy, somatic therpay, hakomi therapy, and any healing inner child work.


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## jaclynrose (Jul 13, 2013)

lltayloe said:


> Did you have any trauma happen to you as a child? Or were in a stressful environment? A lot of DP is triggered my trauma whether that be anxiety, panic attacks, physical trauma, emotional, unstable living situation, sexual abuse, etc. It is your brains way of protection you. Have you thought about EMDR therapy its less about talk and helps your brain process traumatic events. Also, writing about trauma and creating narrative sometimes helps create a healthier ego state there are a lot of therepeuitc books online. I would look for family systems therapy, somatic therpay, hakomi therapy, and any healing inner child work.


Thanks for the reply. I can't think of any childhood trauma, but I was around a family member daily as a child who had severe anxiety and I feel that some of her fears were instilled into me (not the DP though).


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## Swansea (Jun 11, 2013)

Well I would think to be around someone as a child with severe anxiety it would place a lot of stress and burden on you. I think doing some inner child work would be helpful. Sometimes there are parts within us that have never been healed and when those parts are triggered it can send us into a dissociated state like depersonalization.


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## Hosscat (Oct 23, 2012)

One thing to remember is that you absolutely do not need proof against your fear to get past it, you just have to accept uncertainty. How is your anxiety? Is it constant, or do you have moments where it just appears real quickly?


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## plainjane (Jul 9, 2013)

I've been having this exact feeling and its really starting to scare me....I don't want to believe this feeling or thoughts but it is really getting a hold on me. What is life? Am I really here? Why does it feel like a dream? Its scaring me so much to the point were I'm starting to feel crazy....this is the worst feeling....


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

"Life isn't real" is just an idea, a thought your mind has created to deal with stress (which creates its own discomfort, of course - it's a trade-off.) It's not something one can prove with logic and/or evidence, because logic/evidence itself exists only because life exists - without "life" there would be no logic or evidence! 

This smokescreen exists because if life *is* real, then you have to face your demons - resolve your issues - and you're *afraid you can't*.

So the answer is to honestly look at your issues and figure out what it's going to take to resolve them. It may require doing things you're afraid to do, but you have to.


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## Vitellius (Jul 18, 2013)

You might as well admit life is real because we are not aware of any dimensions outside of life

Say you're eating a hot dog, even though you're not sure if LIFE is real, your desire to eat is real


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## scot20441 (Jul 21, 2013)

Hello, new member here. I've been suffering from DP/DR for many years. It began when I was 23 and I'm now 55. Sorry if that doesn't give you younger folks much hope. As I recall, it was around that time when I first started to seriously question life, the universe, God etc. I was raised Catholic, and when I was growing they way I was taught was that if I was bad that come judgement day I would be punished, I would burn in hell. It was a God of fear. Heck of a message to send to a young, impressionable child. I think the trigger for me was in my early 20's, when I was given, unknown to me, a cup of tea containing magic mushrooms. The effect caused me great panic and fear and sent me to the hospital. I was released the next day, but I was never the same. The next week I had a flashback. This is what I believe sent me into a period of anxiety and depression. I already had a very analytical mind, so lo and behold I chose something with no answer to think about - existence.

I started to think about what I had been taught as a child, about God, how he was our creator, not only of us but everything around us. It didn't make sense to me, but the thought suddenly made me feel very alone. If God didn't exist, how did we get here? What was here? What was reality? I had to find the answer. I began reading voraciously, studying philosophers work. This was before the Internet, so it wasn't easy. I couldn't make sense of life, yet I had to take part in it and interact with others, but wait, what if these others weren't real? What if it was all an illusion? I couldn't step outside of myself to find out, so how would I know? That would mean I was the centre of the universe. If I died, this illusion would die with me. I had to find a diversion. I felt overwhelmed.

I found one. Reading the newspaper one day I read about the murder of a young woman. Somehow I convinced myself that I was involved. I studied every detail of the case and retraced my steps to see if I could have been involved. Of course I wasn't, these intrusive thoughts were because of anxiety. Not only the thoughts, but the physical symptoms that I had never experienced before, feeling detached and feeling like what I was looking at was like a movie, one that I was taking part in. The murder was solved. They caught someone. So I did what any good anxiety sufferer does, I found something else. Another murder. This time I shared how I was feeling with a friend. I told him about the murder. He said "well, you got away with it" 

I then sought help from a psychologist. He helped me greatly at the time, and pointed out that these intrusive thoughts were like having a tune stuck in your head. It was good to share with someone who would listen to me, to know that I wasn't alone, that there were others who felt the same way as I did and that there was a reason for it. At that time I was unemployed, I had a thinking brain and I needed something to channel my thoughts into. I needed a purpose. It's a horrible, horrible feeling, you feel trapped inside your head. Everyone else seems to be enjoying life but you. Over time the thoughts and the feelings passed. One day I turned around and they were gone. I found a diversion, but not into something negative, something positive.

Off an on over the years I have found myself feeling this way again, usually when I am suffering from stress of some kind. I default to my familiar pattern of thinking, about existence. I will never find the answer, I just have to accept that we are here. It's not easy to find acceptance when you are feeling this way, but I know one thing for sure, and it's the thing that keeps me going, and that is that it passes. It is not normal to feel this way. Nowadays I have a successful career in IT, and I am great at my job because I have an analytical mind. I need to focus on the positive and I will be OK. Recently I went through a period of financial stress. It caused me to lapse into anxiety and my familiar way of thinking. I will get through it. Life throws us curved balls occasionally and we just have to deal with them.

Colin


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## jaclynrose (Jul 13, 2013)

scot20441 said:


> Hello, new member here. I've been suffering from DP/DR for many years. It began when I was 23 and I'm now 55. Sorry if that doesn't give you younger folks much hope. As I recall, it was around that time when I first started to seriously question life, the universe, God etc. I was raised Catholic, and when I was growing they way I was taught was that if I was bad that come judgement day I would be punished, I would burn in hell. It was a God of fear. Heck of a message to send to a young, impressionable child. I think the trigger for me was in my early 20's, when I was given, unknown to me, a cup of tea containing magic mushrooms. The effect caused me great panic and fear and sent me to the hospital. I was released the next day, but I was never the same. The next week I had a flashback. This is what I believe sent me into a period of anxiety and depression. I already had a very analytical mind, so lo and behold I chose something with no answer to think about - existence.
> 
> I started to think about what I had been taught as a child, about God, how he was our creator, not only of us but everything around us. It didn't make sense to me, but the thought suddenly made me feel very alone. If God didn't exist, how did we get here? What was here? What was reality? I had to find the answer. I began reading voraciously, studying philosophers work. This was before the Internet, so it wasn't easy. I couldn't make sense of life, yet I had to take part in it and interact with others, but wait, what if these others weren't real? What if it was all an illusion? I couldn't step outside of myself to find out, so how would I know? That would mean I was the centre of the universe. If I died, this illusion would die with me. I had to find a diversion. I felt overwhelmed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your story. I can relate to you because my anxiety was brought on the same way as yours (thinking so deeply into where life came from), it helps knowing that I am not alone. I am glad that talking to someone helped for you!


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## scot20441 (Jul 21, 2013)

jaclynrose said:


> Thank you for sharing your story. I can relate to you because my anxiety was brought on the same way as yours (thinking so deeply into where life came from), it helps knowing that I am not alone. I am glad that talking to someone helped for you!


Hi, Thanks for your post. I am by no means "cured". I joined this board because I thought maybe I could help others. I am fully aware that there are those out there for whom it all seems hopeless. I am here to tell you it's not. It does pass, and although you may feel trapped in your head right now it does get better. I, and many others, are living proof of that.

I do, however, find myself suffering from this from time to time. I guess I'm lucky in the sense that I have never needed drugs to help me. I shared my thoughts with a psychologist, and worked hard to try to divert my thoughts into something positive. I am a firm believer that drugs are not the answer, at least for me. It only masks the problem and doesn't provide a solution.

So when I find myself suffering from anxiety/depersonalization/derealization, I have the tools necessary to work my way through it. I try to change the inner dialog. I keep myself busy, I try to avoid sitting at home where it is too easy to allow my mind to wander. With physical symptoms such as depersonalization and derealization, they are a constant reminder unfortunately and it's not easy to divert your mind. I try to get out, meet people, socialize, even though sometimes it is very difficult to do so. This all helps me get through it.

Colin


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

interesting thread!


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## Hosscat (Oct 23, 2012)

Scot, when it 'passes' are you not so doubtful about reality? I mean is it the way it was before you thought of this stuff for the most part, but it still comes back from time to time?


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## scot20441 (Jul 21, 2013)

Hosscat said:


> Scot, when it 'passes' are you not so doubtful about reality? I mean is it the way it was before you thought of this stuff for the most part, but it still comes back from time to time?


Hi, When it passes I still think about it from time to time but I am not anxious about it. I can look at it more objectively. When I am suffering from anxiety is when it really gets hold of me. I feel powerless to reject it. It always takes the same form. My mind automatically defaults to existentialism because that is what I know. It's like an old friend. I don't think I will ever get back to the way I was before I started thinking about this stuff, having gone through this. If I'm suffering from depersonalization/derealization/anxiety/depression it fills me with fear, but I must take part in this world, the very world I am questioning. If I am not suffering from those things I can think about the same thing, but not obsessively. The physical symptoms are a constant reminder. The main thing for me, and the thing that has worked over and over, is to get out of my house, do stuff, anything to try to occupy my mind with something else. It's not easy. I exercise, try to eat well. Eventually it passes, but the worst thing for me is to spend extended periods alone.

Colin


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## Hosscat (Oct 23, 2012)

I guess I was hoping when you don't think about it life returns to normal. You don't feel so alone and the thought seems more absurd. I don't really have the dp symptoms much anymore, just these thoughts making me feel like ive lost my family.


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## scot20441 (Jul 21, 2013)

Hosscat said:


> I guess I was hoping when you don't think about it life returns to normal. You don't feel so alone and the thought seems more absurd. I don't really have the dp symptoms much anymore, just these thoughts making me feel like ive lost my family.


Well yes, when I am not thinking about it, life does return to normal. But if I happen to have these thoughts, I can see things more objectively. It doesn't scare me, it's just another thought. However when I am feeling depressed or anxious and have these thoughts that is a different story. I get sucked in by them, overwhelmed. Last week I was in the midst of a period of anxiety. I was in my existential mode, questioning the origins of life and all it contains. It was very difficult for me to relate to my girlfriend. I felt detached and unable to reach out to her, or anyone for that matter. This week I can have the same thought, but the result is different. In fact I don't even give it much time before I am able to dismiss it out of my head. I can have the same thought but without fear or panic. It has happened to me so often since my early 20's that I am able to work my way through it, knowing that it will pass. I hope you feel better soon. How long have you had these thoughts?

Colin


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## Hosscat (Oct 23, 2012)

Since last October, its been pretty constant, as im just learning how to respond to stuff like this. Interestingly ive been on Abilify for about a week and it seems to have helped quite a bit.


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