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## Guest (Mar 27, 2012)

*...*


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## SSJ3Lotokun (Nov 21, 2011)

That's it. Cancelling my preorder.


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## Chelsea (Aug 10, 2011)

Why don't you all just let go of the DP research once in for all. There's no special cure, never will be, you're just making yourself worse.


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## PhoenixDown (Mar 3, 2011)

Chelsea said:


> Why don't you all just let go of the DP research once in for all. There's no special cure, never will be, you're just making yourself worse.


wrong. Knowledge is power. No good will come of avoiding this problem.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2012)

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## Guest (Mar 28, 2012)

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## Guest (Mar 28, 2012)

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## Guest (Mar 28, 2012)

They don't like the taste of Medicine.


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## cbeck (Feb 8, 2008)

Science is good, w/o science and medicine, there wouldnt be a cure for alot of things. My Lord people, cut her some slack. Just because you are angry we got dealt a shitty hand don't mean you should take it out on someone that is sharing info/research. Wake Up!


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## Chelsea (Aug 10, 2011)

PhoenixDown said:


> wrong. Knowledge is power. No good will come of avoiding this problem.


Avoidance means recovery.


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## Sleepwalker (Dec 4, 2008)

Dreamer* said:


> You obviously didn't read the post. I said, individuals are BORN gay. In early psychiatric literature, the DSM-III it was believed homosexuality was a MENTAL ILLNESS.....


Just want to say this: Your posts are enlightening! 
Keep posting Dreamer!

This is, I think is off-topic but I'll take my chances.

I have a beef with any categorical statement that 'one is BORN this or that way'. 
A more correct statement might be that one is born with a predispostion, either strong or weak, to being gay (for example).
Studies on identical twins bear this out. 
One study (can't for the life of me find these links) found only half of pairs of identical twins turned out to be gay.
Or put this way: only half the time did both twins self-report as being gay. what about the other half (of a pair) who did not identify 'himself' as being gay? 
Identical twins have identical DNA's. What accounts for the other 50%'s not being gay? Environment, willing choice or some other factors?

Honest, scientific inquiry into the aetiology of human sexuality (IN GENERAL) was all but abandoned or bludgeoned out of existence since the 80's by activists groups and those with a particular social agenda. 
On sundry occasions, I searched for hours looking for some recent articles - truly scientific ones - and could not find a single one.
The ones I did find were either dealing with it from a moral angle or from a social standpoint, dealing with the politics of the issue.
In my view, it is unfair to tell a person to resign himself to an orientation to which the person has serious issues and would like to feel differently.
Everyone deserve to be given options.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Here's my thnking, dpd *is* a dissociative disorder, no if ands or buts. Dp *symptoms* can come as a side order to other disorders, that doesn't mean you change what category it's in. Anxiety and depression would likely have a subclass like major depressive disorder "with dissociative features", there is currently one that is major depression "with psychotic features". I don't think that article says much of anything. They're just realizing what I've seen here, dissociation can be symptoms of other things.

I've actualy had an idea, a new visual way of looking at the web of dx's and categories, but I think it's legit, novel and possibly groundbreaking so I'm not sharing


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Chelsea said:


> and? what the hell will happen if some psychiatrists take it from one category and put it into another? what?


For now &#8230; nothing. Though when first reading this topic was struck with the fear that they will react all the more insistently by stuffing SSRIs down peoples throats.

IMO, expressions such as "*multidimensional picture of DPD*" indicate that if they could further subdivide the groups of DPD sufferers, they may be better able to provide meaningful assistance (treat).

Right now, there seems to be a shortage of understanding (even acknowledging the existence of) DPD in the psychological community. This hardly helps people seeking help.

For the now, one of the most important things is to try to find out if DP if a symptom of another disorder or if it is a primary diagnosis.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2012)

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## Guest (Mar 31, 2012)

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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

The latest draft dsm online has dp/dr under dissociative disorders, it has so far not been moved to anxiety or trauma.

And to be extra geeky, it will now be the "DSM 5" not dsm V


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2012)

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## Guest (Sep 5, 2012)

Wow, this thread's a spieecy meeaatboll!
I'd try not to take it personally, Dreamer. I don't necessarilly think that some of the stronger responses were meant as personal "attacks", it's just that the nature of the material is such that it is always going to push some people's buttons, as it's essentially about which filing cabinet your being put into.
For many people who are struggling right now and just want some practical help, reading about some stuffed shirts in a board room discussing which subsection of which paragraph things are being subdivided into can sound like so much irrelevant hot air, and is a source of frustration. I completely understand that. It's the dehumanising slicing and dicing of people that so often misses the actual person and their real needs. But at the same time, I recognise that possible reclassifications, as irritating and labyrinthine as the subject may be, could infuence just how effectively doctors can misdiagnose and mistreat their patients in the future (







) , so of course it is relevant and will be of interest to some.
So again, don't take an attack on the subject matter as an attack on yourself.


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2012)

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## Guest (Sep 8, 2012)

Hi Dreamer, That's awful you were treated that way. To have no postive emotional feedback, and be so completely undermined on every level can't have left you any space just to grow into yourself naturally, to be safe, to make mistakes and just be you. With nothing to depend on or take for granted we doubt everything and can't trust ourselves or anything else. Anyone would have struggled. I can't pretend to know how hard that must of been, but perhaps understand to some extent in a small way. I hope you surround yourself these days with people you can trust. It is sad to see grown adults, like your friend, still hankering for some emotional bone from a parent who is clearly incapable of providing it. It is cold comfort, but recognising that their parents behaviour came from their own derangements, that they failed us and were blind to it, and it was not because we were fundamentally "wrong" somehow, I think is important in shifting responsibilty and dissolving the negative impression they might have left on us, without wallowing in bitterness. You just see things clearly and realistically as they were. It doesn't make you a bad person if you don't mourn them, if they were only a source of pain.
Maybe it's easy for me to say not to take things personally. I was trying to be objective as I felt I could appreciate where people with differing views were coming from, but I suspect that actually most people, with mental health issues or not, would take it abit personally, at least at first. and for us it can hurt more and feel very personal if it triggers painful associations.

I expect that to alot of people questions of reclassification seem to be very divorced from their immediate concerns. Maybe, as with political matters, We all _aught_ to be more engaged, but just as with politics, people are understandably cynical about it. It can just seem like faceless people, far away, taking decisions about our lives, without consulting us.
And many people just don't have any energy left for anything else ontop of what they are already dealing with. A fact that often means people with mental health problems do not have a voice and are left open to exploitation. Currently in England a private firm hired by the government, Atos Healthcare, is charged with stopping benefits for those who can't work, and they are targeting the mentally ill, as they are a soft target, and putting lives at risk in the process. There was one case of a young woman with BPD, a suicide risk, who was bombarded with repeated demands to attend medical assesments, threatening to cut her off, despite repeated letters of protestation from her GP. As a result of this she slashed her wrists. So the fact that you are engaged with current events and (if I'm right in thinking) campaign for mental health awareness really is to be commended. It's alot more than most of us ever do.


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

kate_edwin said:


> The latest draft dsm online has dp/dr under dissociative disorders, it has so far not been moved to anxiety or trauma.
> 
> And to be extra geeky, it will now be the "DSM 5" not dsm V


That's very true.

I don't think they will change to an anxiety disorder because of the nature of the condition, those who experience Dp as *symptom FROM an anxiety disorder have anxiety disorders*, those who experience DP and DR from an specific traumatic event have PSTD (lets say it roughly), there are some conditions that are *exclusive* and that means, for example, that you can't have Bipolar disorder and Multiple personalities disorder at the same time.

So roughly if you have another *axis I* condition that means you do not have DPD, and I believe they will not change it to anxiety disorder since Depersonalization is already included in other anxiety disorders diagnosis as a symptom.

And even though people might say here that everybody who has DPD actually is anxious, all people with Schizophrenia, somatoform disorders, burnout syndrome or PSTD are also anxious due to the distressing nature of the condition but anxiety itself didn't cause the condition, event though it might play a role in maintaining the condition it didn't _start it_.

In this case it's an etiologic matter; the anxiety comes from the condition (dpd) and NOT the condition comes from the anxiety and I will agree here with *Visual*, they should sub divide groups of DPD patients. I still believe though that if someone is chronic patient he will eventually develop DP as symptom and this might be happening to some of us now...

The DPD question if far more complex and I truly believe that science is actually clueless about it, and since I'm not taking any conventional medication or treatment with doctors, except for psychotherapy and I am proud to announce that it has worked wonders for me, I overcame DR and I'm only having rare episodes of DP, the changes on DSM 5 won't affect me, and if you're wise enough you should not let it affect you.

Live a fulfilling life and be honest to yourself and you will find your way out!

good luck to everyone!


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

You can have multiple axis 1 conditions, including bipolar and DID. And actually they've also decided to get rid of having diferent axis, not sure how that's going to change things. Might make it easier for people with "axis 2" problems to get treatment through insurance.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2012)

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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

kate_edwin said:


> You can have multiple axis 1 conditions, including bipolar and DID. And actually they've also decided to get rid of having diferent axis, not sure how that's going to change things. Might make it easier for people with "axis 2" problems to get treatment through insurance.


Most conditions on axis I can't be overlapped and are exclusive of another axis I disorder, just sayin...


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Like you can have major depression and general anxiety, or OCD and bipolar, many of the symptoms say it's one dx if it happens exclusive of another disorder, like if your anxiety symptoms happen only when you're manic bu not when you're depressed you wouldn't have an anxiety disorder, but if you were anxious all the time even if you weren't depressed or manic you coul dhave an anxiety disorder too for example


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

kate_edwin said:


> Like you can have major depression and general anxiety, or OCD and bipolar, many of the symptoms say it's one dx if it happens exclusive of another disorder, like if your anxiety symptoms happen only when you're manic bu not when you're depressed you wouldn't have an anxiety disorder, but if you were anxious all the time even if you weren't depressed or manic you coul dhave an anxiety disorder too for example


It's kind of rare to have major depression and generalized anxiety at the same time, if you're a doctor or psychologist and make a proper assessment you will find out either one thing or another, the number of conditions on axis I you can dx the same person is *very* limited. I am fully aware that can be overlaps but they're very limited

for example you can't have

* GAD + OCD (same branch)
* OCD + hypocondria (obsession is criteria)
* OCD + anorexia/bulimia any other eating disorder (3)
* OCD + Psychotic disorders (13)
* OCD + Sexual Disoders (30)
* OCD + Somatoform Disorders (8 disoders)
* OCD + Drug related mental problems (*about 100*)
* OCD + During depression or during suicidal ideation.
* OCD + Anxiety disorders (14 )
* OCD + Dissociative Disorders (3 disorders)

* OCD + Impulse control disorders (6 disorders)
* OCD + Adjustment disorder (6 disorders)
* OCD + Mood disorders (38)- 4 can be overlapped with OCD (34)
___________________________________________________

217 disorders that can't be overlapped with OCD

This is about the same for the rest, that's what I said most can't be overlapped within axis I, there are cases tho


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2012)

*...*


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

I would hazzard
to say most people with dp have anxiety but no all of them feel it, it's blocked out in many, it's the dp that's blocking it out


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

37F said:


> there you go - well spotted


You know the problem is that *things are not in a practical matter what they are theoretically*

Theoretically changing DPD from a cluster to another could change medical treatment, the implications of having it in anxiety clusters would be an anxiety treatment approach. 
There are series of neurochemical, brain area, etiologic implications in changing a condition from one cluster to another. DPD is very misunderstood VERY misunderstood and poorly treated, there is NO specific medicine for depersonalization/dissociation, if it would rather stay in an independent cluster such as dissociation there would be better changes of developing new drugs *YET I don't think there will ever be a magical pill to solve your psychological problems, DPD is in most cases drug induced or happen to people with lots of traumas and painful lives*

In a practical sense tho we know that if you change from clusters the immediate effect will be the kinds of prescriptions for it, if they change it to Psychotic you my dear fellow dpd's will start being prescribed antipsychotics which I think won't be good, if it goes to anxiety it will be benzos, if it's mood or bipolar it will be lithium, and so on.

Yet I think the new discoveries made over DPD neurochemical mechanisms would be already enough to design a medication, just saying; as far as I know the way a dp'd brain work isn't the same as any of those above, in my humble opinion DP is a deregulation in endo-opioids or endo-cannabinoids, and taking SSRI, Lithium, Anti psych... you're better off with voodoo. I think the actual whole problem with DPD is that it's far more complex than what they think, because they don't know, in truth they have no more clue than most here.

About 90% of people here take meds and I wonder, did it work? how fast?

*So at some point I agree with you, changing it from a place to another won't be so useful in a practical sense specially in the short term, but let's hope it will disappoint our predictions and actually have a practical positive impact
*


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't think putting it into another category would improve treatment or make for new medications...there are plnety of dr's and researchers who essentially ignore te category and explore treTments traditionally intended for ther disorders. I've been on meds for dimentia, firomyalgia, psychosis, addiction, seizures, all trying to treat dp or dissociation


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

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## Guest (Sep 14, 2012)

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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

That's a pathetically short list of people doing research. Pathologically pathetic. There are probably that many people working on say breast cancer research in any one state in the us. We need way more research


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Sure cancer kills people. But suicide alone kills more then every cancer and homicide combined. The problem is stigma. People don't care and they think less of people wih things wrong in their brain. It's better then it was but it's still far from where it needs to be. Research money isn't always distributed very well.

Oh it's isst-d







wish they'd have a consumer client level membership, even their student rate is way too much for me and none of their journals are available through schools or anyhing you have to pay for them always. Thankfully my therapist will give them to me, wish the info was more widely available


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> ...
> 2. No one is going to move DP/DR to the category of psychosis. OMG. LOL.
> 3. There is more than medication or a "magic bullet" involved here. There are other treatments including transcranial stiumlation, etc. (Dissociative states can be created when individuals are being operated on for brain tumors, etc.) NOT knowing now, but discussing the topic, is at least a positive sign. The more discussion the greater awareness.
> 
> ...


Dear Dreamer,

I never intended to do it here but after I read read your comment I have to say;

What I said were just examples.

2- I too am a researcher and I research DPD or at least used to in university, so I've read almost all about what there is in DPD research and I am aware even of research being DEVELOPED on the field, yet I'm NOT so optimistic, they found out about subatomic particles in 1950, only now they are able to work and effectively study it. 
Stem cells are known from long ago also, not much has been put into the health system, no on used it to solve no one's diabetes in public hospitals, and blood from births is thrown away everyday...

3- I never said that we should stop research but researchers right now are extremely clueless about the disease, NO ONE has ever made a deep research on *WHY* people develop it, so WHY, that what I ask WHY to even bother moving it from one side to the other, ICD is old and DPD there can't be present without DR, this definition has been there for quite a while and it's lame (I've read it and you have no idea how many times).

4-* As a matter of fact there will not be any significant improvement in the DP treatment next year* so don't be optimistic, ofc it's good when people research about it, but like 3/4 of people researching on *it DO NOT HAVE GENUINE INTEREST IN CURING THE GODDAMN FUCKING DISEASE, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IS TO PUBLISH FUCKING PAPERS EVERY 3 MONTHS OTHERFUCKINGWISE THEY WOULD BE RESEARCHING INTO THE EFFECT OF SOME TREATMENT FOR DPD SUFFERERS, DO THEY DO IT NO. WHAT THEY ARE DOING RIGHT NOW IS RESEARCHING INTO HOW MISERABLE IS THE MISERY OF THE DPD BRAIN/PATIENTS/PEOPLE and I know it so, so, so damn well, that's how the Sci research showbiz runs. Researching to something to cure something specially in Psychiatry/psychology takes LOTS of money and doesn't show good "statistical quality" of results and most of all are costly and take too long,because you can't really turn people outcomes into numbers and say "individuals treated by method X got an improvement of 74.56% at 0.0006 reliability". Thats just why nobody does it. 
*
Researchers are humans beings and they have deadlines and need to eat (and therefore get money) this is why instead of looking for a "cure" they will first research and make compilations of previous research instead of doing something truly positive about it and not only positive To themselves. And BTW trans cranial brain stimulation or whatsoever is just a completely generic measure, it works for many other conditions, or at least change it somewhat but there is no SPECIFIC reason for what they do it.

I don't want to sound arrogant or anything, but the world runs on money so research does. I don't want to sound arrogant or anything, but that's how it is and I know it because I am there.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

Amanda,
You're not being arrogant, and believe me I am overwhelmed with frustration. Everything is a business, even research and medicine. What is especially sad is suicide is one of the leading causes of death in teenagers who don't reach out ... again out of shame.

I had to find the statistics, LOL. ICD from 2010 I think ... they are always a few years behind collecting data. This is in the United States in one year.

The $ involved in all of this has to do a lot with how much it costs to care for individuals, and the prominent disorders that have the highest statistical occurrence. It doesn't even go into quality of life. But this list reflects what is overwhelming our medical system ... also, this is what the DSM is for, to observe statistics on particular diseases (Parkinsons for instance and Alzheimer's are in the DSM), to track them, and say with autism -- ask why that is more prevalent now that it used to be, etc.

*U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES Centers for Disease Control and Prevention National Center for Health Statistics 
National Vital Statistics System*
The leading causes of death in 2010 remained the same as in 2009 for 14 of the 15 leading causes, although two causes exchanged ranks. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis, the ninth leading cause in 2009, became the eighth leading cause in 2010, while Influenza and pneumonia, the eighth leading cause in 2009, became the ninth leading cause of death in 2010. Dropping from among the 15 leading causes of death in 2010 was Assault (homicide), replaced by Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids as the 15th leading cause of death in 2010.

*15 Leading Causes of Death:
*
All caues of death/*total deaths in 2010: 2,465,932
*
1. Diseases of heart (595,000)
 *2. Malignant neoplasms (Cancer) (574,000)*
 3. Chronic lower respiratory diseases (138,000)
 4. Cerebrovascular diseases (130,000)
 5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) (118,000)
 6. Alzheimer's disease (83,000)
 7. Diabetes mellitus (69,000)
 8. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis 
9. Influenza and pneumonia (50,000)
*10. Intentional self-harm (suicide) (37,000)*
11. Septicemia (34,000)
12. Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis (26,577) 
13. Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (27,000)
14. Parkinson's disease (17,000)
 15. Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids (17,000)

(The numbers are rounded off)
-------------------

The very sad stats on TEEN deaths:

The leading causes of death for the teenage population remained constant throughout the period 1999-2006:

*Automobile accidents*
Accidents (unintentional injuries) (48 percent of deaths)
Homicide (13 percent)
*Suicide (11 percent)*
Cancer (6 percent)
Heart disease (3 percent).

*Motor vehicle accident accounted for almost three quarters (73 percent) of all deaths from unintentional injury*

All of this does not give the intricacies of race/class, etc. Very sad though that suicide is in the top 5 causes of death for teens. And THAT is very preventable. Drinking and driving -- not good. Or texting.

I hear your frustration, feel it, understand it.
I do believe one day (not in my lifetime but in the lifetime of those young people here on the board) there WILL be better treatments. I have to believe that. And as I said, if I had gotten cancer before 2004, my outcome may have been very different. I would have been forced to have chemotherapy which is deadly in and of itself. I'm very lucky. But again. The cancer was a walk in the park compared to a lifetime of chronic DP/DR. I am not afraid of cancer now. It is out of my control. Having one's perceptions out of control -- another story altogether.

Peace of Mind.








D


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

*...*


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Wait a minute...all the mental health people say suicide kills more then cancer and homicide combined...so how could itbe listed below either of those?


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

I know there have been changes yeah, 
I'm myself fascinated about the progress in science, and neuroscience, but capitalism is sick and is making us sick, is also making me sick about trying to research something that no one cares about because no celebrity said on TV she had it or something like this... I believe DPD is present in as much as maybe 5% of world sometime in their lives.

But DPD definitely does not prevent you from working so gov is fairly ok with it, which is just cruel.

I understand that you see this as positive, me too believe me! But I also understand why people would go mad about changing from category, it should be least concern if they want to change so much but don't know what is about they should put under the label of "unidentified condition" it's like you're stuck in the road at night, and say "oh lets go this way cos I think maybe the sun was that direction" and I think you don't have the right to do it when you're not quite sure because it's about the lives of other people. But yeah I think within the years there will be research into it, and they will finally find a good answer, I even believe that the upcoming years with the general research in neuroscience there will be some indirect implications for DPD (and all other sorts of conditions)

And dreamer

_ I'd like to say I read your website, and thank you so much for your website, now I see what was being done to me_


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

Thank you Amanda. Again, I share your frustration. Glad my site was of help. That is all I try to do and it gives me a sense of accomplishment. I even learned to build the site myself. Computer programming is very distracting!



kate_edwin said:


> Wait a minute...all the mental health people say suicide kills more then cancer and homicide combined...so how could itbe listed below either of those?


Kate who are "... all the mental health people." They scare me, LOL. Sounds like a strange cult.

I'm wondering where you've gotten your statistics.

Most reliable, if you're talking about advocacy and not looking at the ICD statistics (which are genuine per death certificate records which have been kept, as census records for many important reasons) then are you talking about NAMI, or BC2M, or MIND in England? I'm not familiar with other organizations outside the US save MIND in the UK.

Go to http://www.nami.org or http://www.bringchange2mind.org I am a member of both. So I guess I am "one of those mental health people." LOL.

The statistics vary, but what advocates are trying to tell insurance companies and funding programs is:

*ONE IN FOUR Americans will have a mental disorder AT SOME TIME IN THEIR LIVES.* That's 25% of the population. But remember that includes Alzheimer's, Tourettes, *one* episode of post-partum depression -- think Brooke Shields, a few episodes of depression, or chronic illnesses like schizophrenia/bipolar/schizoaffective/OCD, etc.etc. and chronic DP/DR. Parkinson's is also included. All of these disorders cause changes in mood, cognition, social and occupational functioning, lower quality of life, need long term care. *They DON'T indicate that suicide is the end result.*

More likely, severe mentally ill individuals end up homeless, in jail, die an early death from not caring for themselves, having no "half-way" houses after mental asylums were emptied in the 1960s/1970s. Closing of hopsital psych units.

Also, most of the rampage killings, recently Loughner in Arizona and Holmes in Colorada were committed by severely mentally ill individuals. Though most individuals with mental disorders like thees are the VICTIMS of violence (assault, rape), a small percentage kill OTHERS, not understanding what they are doing.

Per Bring Change to Mind it is 1 in 6 have a "severe" brain disorder, that is, Glenn and Jesse Close are referring to "the big ones" -- schizophrenia, biplar, schizoaffective, and clinical depression.

All 25% of the population isn't ill at the same moment.

Finally, what advocacy tries to point out, if individuals with brain disorders received early intervention, follow-up, and for some a more controlled environment (not JAIL!), they can live productive lives. They can DO BETTER in the long run from individuals with heart and lung diseases in particular.

Sadly the statistics for YOUNG people under 23 or so -- suicide is in the top five. No one believs a seven year old can become severely depressed. Children as young as that, or younger have committed suicide. (Hanging, or sitting on a train track with a "suicide pact.") Young people are far more impulsive, less likely to reach out for help.

Again, view the proper statistics at http://www.nami.org and http://www.bringchange2mind.org For the 50th time I'll put up the wonderful PSA for BC2M with Glenn Close and her sister Jesse. Jesse is open about her struggle with bipolar. With love and proper treatment the OUTCOME for those with chronic mental illness is greater than that of those who have serious chronic heart/lung conditions (many the result of smoking, obesity) also child onset diabetes from obesity.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

Listen to John Mayer, "Say What You Need To Say" -- this is where for one minute you will understand what advocacy is about.
Glenn Close, here sister Jesse, a great 1 minute spot.






It isn't scary, it's positive.
Mental health advocates are saying, "Get rid of the stigma, mental illnesses are not hopeless, they respond to treatment, and individuals can return to work, get out of the hospital and lead very productive lives."


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

Chelsea said:


> Avoidance means recovery.


This is complete bull shit. I avoided most my life away! So are the family members now struggling. If by un-admission of dp I would have better while trying to be a regular jo. I spent most my life thinking I was just going about living wrong.


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

Chelsea said:


> Avoidance means recovery.


This is complete bull shit. I avoided most my life away! So are the family members now struggling. If by un-admission of dp I would have better while trying to be a regular jo. I spent most my life thinking I was just going about living wrong.


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

kate_edwin said:


> Sure cancer kills people. But suicide alone kills more then every cancer and homicide combined. The problem is stigma. People don't care and they think less of people wih things wrong in their brain. It's better then it was but it's still far from where it needs to be. Research money isn't always distributed very well.
> 
> Oh it's isst-d
> 
> ...


Don't know that I agree. Stigma is a problem. But I have considered suicide and witnessed it too many times and it had very little to do with stigma. Life with a mental illness is hard, period.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

No I wasn't saying suicide had to do with stigma, I was saying allocation of research funds has to do with stigma.


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

kate_edwin said:


> No I wasn't saying suicide had to do with stigma, I was saying allocation of research funds has to do with stigma.


I Get kate's point here, just there is still a lot of stigma about mental illness on the side of those who do not have it or never saw it, and this way suicide rates continue to increase in the world, as research isn't done effectively to stop it. It even seems that they want it to happen, idk. And so far now the cases of suicide I heard about were from people who were very intelligent...


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2012)

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## Guest (Sep 19, 2012)

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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Yes becuase once someone kills themselves they don't cost the government any more money


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

Big pharma has control over the research too and that is a big problem.


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

Amanda L. said:


> I know there have been changes yeah,
> I'm myself fascinated about the progress in science, and neuroscience, but capitalism is sick and is making us sick, is also making me sick about trying to research something that no one cares about because no celebrity said on TV she had it or something like this... I believe DPD is present in as much as maybe 5% of world sometime in their lives.
> 
> But DPD definitely does not prevent you from working so gov is fairly ok with it, which is just cruel.
> ...


WTH? DPD certainly can prevent a person from being able to work. Please don't make it any worse on me. May be YOU can work.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm on disability due to my dissociative disorder, you bet it can stop you from working or being productive as far as the world sees it


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

kate_edwin said:


> Yes becuase once someone kills themselves they don't cost the government any more money


All the more reason to stay alive ... to get even. Let it cost them a bundle, then they will care


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

I often wonder why people end up with DID vs DPD or PTSD vs DPD? Is it more trauma in childhood or within a short period of time respectively?


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## kpaiva (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't know why people are arguing on here. I think this is kind of cool - regardless of whether a "magical cure" will come of it or not. To be honest, I want to know why I see things so differently. I want to know why there are multiple times a day when colors overwhelm me to the point of nausea. The hyperawareness is not only unbearable, it's pretty much a distinct quality to DPD over the other dissociative disorders. I don't think DPD should be listed as just "dissociation." It is SO much different from that. I think a better qualification is needed, considering I can speak to anxiety researchers and they don't even know what DPD is! I think that giving it its own category (though, I do think it could fall "under" some dissociative category) will not only raise awareness, but, to be honest, it makes me feel more validated. I'm not crazy and making this stuff up in my head -- well, not willingly. And I agree with some other posters saying it could move to the field of neurology. Neurological study on DPD would be so interesting and motivating in a lot of ways. I know others on here say avoidance is the cure. I don't agree, but I do agree that if you avoid it, then some symptoms are less likely to occur again... However, when I do this, mine only come back with a vengeance.

Classifying disorders that we know so little about seems kind of pointless. But, in the end, the acknowledgement that DPD is different than just "dissociation" is a huge step in psychiatry and psychology -- even if just to offer better therapeutic treatments or so professionals understand what your episodes are. I was almost misdiagnosed with schizophrenia. Like, really? We need this.


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## kpaiva (Dec 17, 2010)

wise said:


> I often wonder why people end up with DID vs DPD or PTSD vs DPD? Is it more trauma in childhood or within a short period of time respectively?


I do think it's interesting to consider that. Though, I think a lot of people could be diagnosed with PTSD/DPD. I think DPD could almost be considered an element of PTSD (in some cases, not all!). I know that I have PTSD/DPD. It has always made sense to have that as a co-diagnosis. The emerging of DID vs DPD is something that I'm curious about, though. Personally, I think it has to do with the levels and forms of trauma and how you interpret and internalize or externalize that trauma. That's just a personal opinion. That isn't based on any facts. But, judging from the trends I see in others I know, that seems to be the case. I also wonder if recognizing or completely avoiding the trauma affects this.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Did usually happens with early, chronic abuse, often of physical or sexual nature. Dp or dissociation can be a symptom of PTSD. I've just recently started meeting criteria for PTSD. There may be some genetic comonent in who gets what, but theyre still looking into
that.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2012)

..


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2012)

..


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Dreamer* said:


> There is a category "complex PTSD" -- but it is being debated. It is not an official diagnosis. It would fall under something like "Adjustment Disorder of Childhood" (if it were from abuse). Sexual/verbal/physical.
> 
> We are all unique. We react to all different types of trauma MAJOR and minimal in different ways. PTSD is set apart specifically as a reaction to a life threatening event like surviving war, 9/11 in the WTC, surviving a serious auto accident, surviving a rape at gunpoint, or rape in general, torture, surviving a plane crash. In my best undertanding in research/reading/lectures, this is NOT a reaction to childhood sexual abuse, or physical abuse.
> 
> ...


I think that what occurs during PTSD is a way for the brain to process what's occurred, for example, flashbacks are like a systematic desensitization to minimize the trauma. It's also probably a 'protective mechanism', but different from the DPD 'protective mechanism' because with DPD the issue is chronic abuse so the brain adapts to that by 'shutting down' everytime triggers are present because it's been conditioned to do so as a protective mechanism.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2012)

...


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

PTSD does not have to involve literal threat to your life at all. It's any preceived threat. Your body reacts the same way no matter if your life is in actual danger or not


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

This is all very interesting but I am not a trauma survivor and neither are my family members who exhibit these symptoms. I get tired of hearing that. I am a highly sensitive person. Too much stimulation causes me to check out. School was a nightmare. Society and it's ways do not care for highly imaginative, sensitive, aware children, who can grow into adults that are "traumatized/dpd?". That's my theory and I am sticking to it.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2012)

*..*


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2012)

kate_edwin said:


> PTSD does not have to involve literal threat to your life at all. It's any preceived threat. Your body reacts the same way no matter if your life is in actual danger or not


Dreamer, if the term PTSD is defined by the causes, then wouldn't that make it a meaningless term psychologically?
It might describe a set of symptoms that two people may share, but the term would only be applied to the one who aquired them in certain circumstances?

One event may be a trauma to one person and not to another. How severe the event is is relative to the individual. It's like a set of scales. On one side you have the person's inner resources (or lack thereof) based on the positive or negative nature of their life experience, and on the other the strength and duration of the events. The actual severity of the event is not the issue, it is whether or not they have reached the tipping point.

This is exactly why the subject of catagorisation is so irritating. It is artificial construct putting words ahead of the personal affliction and experience of the individual. Putting the cart before the horse. Is it not like telling someone they cannot say they have a "cut" because it was not caused by a knife?

I appreciate that you are talking in academic terms and trying to be clear about technical definition, and again I appreciate that any improvements in catagorisation may (possibly) limit the damage the medical profession may inflict on the mentally ill, but when you consider how low the actual success rate the medical profession has in treating mental health problems, it seems like alot of detailing about a subject that they do not understand very well. So when you are lecturing people on technical definitions, you are often doing so with details that have not proven to be of much use.

That's not to say there arnt good people within the profession working towards improving things, but they tend to be doing so individually, and for practical purposes are necessarilly more flexible at how they apply terms like Trauma and PTSD.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Any professional treating trauma and PTSD will tell you you can get
it from experiencing an event as beinG a threat even if it wasn't.

say you were robber and the guy had a candy bar under his jacket, with no actual intent to hurt you and you thought it was a gun. You could have flashbacks and terror, even though your life was never in "real" danger.

A small child being sexually assaulted will feel like their life is in danger even if the adult has no plans or never tries to kill them

someone who is sensiive enough could get PTSD symptoms from a day at the amusement park being forced by peer pressure to rode rollercoasters, the physics behind them is sound, your life is not in danger but to the right person I sure feels like it


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## daydreambeliever (Jun 15, 2011)

[quote name='37F' timestamp='1348398162' post='266088']
"you see enough death and killing"

yes i agree. and if you are highly sensitive all you have to do is see pictures or get the news and you understand exactly. i really feel for you. i don't need to have these experiences to feel the pain and confusion.

it doesn't matter the dxs does it really? f*ck it. it's a f*cked up thing to have to feel pain and die period, and life is hard for all of us living creatures. i'm just trying to live a life worthwhile to me, for the time i'm putting in. i hope you are in a safe place from now on. i wish you could come live with me!

the one feeling i know i'm capable of is compassion, and it's very painful. i am thankful every day that life for me is so good, and that includes struggling every day with dpd. dpd for me is a roller coaster ride of feelings, so many at once that i feel none. i am so downhearted and disillusioned that i want to die on the one hand, and on the other i am lost in the wilderness, a wild life, with the wild life, we're together, and i am in heaven. to see it all being ignored and destroyed by people breaks my heart. but even nature is a cruel thing and a meteor could hit us tomorrow and it would all be gone. so my true love stops suddenly there. but we aren't alone, not even a little bit. i try to learn from the birds that don't dwell on it when they have nearly escaped death and pain by getting away from a cat. (fyi, i don't keep cats! lol) if it's a nice day they go on expressing happiness. how i hate acts of violence the very most and am so glad i haven't had much of that in my life.

i heard a coyote die from a trap once and i went into such agony that it disabled me from even moving for 40 minutes and then took 8 days to recover from. i skipped right out of my body and it was not fun. i didn't even relate it to hearing the poor thing cry for 45 minutes till it gave up. the "pain" attack came later that evening. i had seen my therapist right after it happened. otherwise i would not know what this "trigger" was. such is my case of dissociating. it is severe and like i said, compared to you, my life is so good. i just really feel for you.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

You might look into distress tollerance and emotion regulation if you experience emoions so intensly


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

kate_edwin said:


> PTSD does not have to involve literal threat to your life at all. It's any preceived threat. Your body reacts the same way no matter if your life is in actual danger or not


I like that theory.


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