# Depersonalisation Survivor



## Joan Smith

Hi Everyone,

I go by the name of Joan, I am a recovered depersonalisation sufferer and have joined the forum with the hope of being able to share my experiences and journey so that it might help others here. I used to come to the dp self help forums on the net years ago searching for help and answers, feeling like I was never going to find my way out of it. It took me over 10 years to find my path to recovery and I've since trained as a counsellor hoping to help others find theirs.

I welcome any questions and am happy to share my experience,

Joan


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## Guest

would you mind going over your story in more detail? Or at the very least, what did you feel was crucial in your recovery?

It's nice to hear from people that recovered after so many years seeing people who have had this for however many years tends to be very discouraging for some.


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## Joan Smith

Hi,

So I was 19. My parents had moved away from the town I was in and not long after that separated. I was living with a man I didn't really want to be with. I was quite lonely and getting depressed. I was on the rebound in this relationship and struggling to get over my ex even though it had been a year since we broke up.

I met this guy and started smoking a lot of marijuana. For about 18 months I was ok, then I started getting paranoid when I was high and freaking out thinking I couldn't breathe. One night was really bad, I had a mix of amphetamine, marijuana and alcohol. I was begging my boyfriend to take me to hospital convinced I was going to die.

The depersonalisation set in about two weeks later. I woke up, getting ready to go to uni and I felt like my head was foggy. It felt weird but I sort of shook it off thinking I needed a coffee or something. That day I got worse and worse, not coming out of this fog and I started panicking. It felt like I was stoned permanently and couldn't get out of it.

I was convinced I had done something to myself with the drugs, that I was 'turning schizophrenic'. The panic and anxiety got worse until eventually it was full blown 24/7. I didn't tell anyone thinking they would lock me up.

I suffered like that for another 18 months before I got the courage to leave my boyfriend. I had started reading self help books and thinking I was going through a nervous breakdown. It was hard to find answers and the whole time I was just waiting to go mad or thinking I might be stuck in this prison (depersonalisation) for the rest of my life.

I continued to suffer for another couple of years. Eventually I gave up hope and went to a psychiatrist desperate for help. He prescribed me clonazepam - i took that for another 5 years before I realised it wasn't working. During that time I found the DP self help forums and a group of us even met up and had lunch one day- sharing our experiences. It was very strange to meet with a group of people all with that empty look in their eyes. Lights on no one home!

My eyes were always the best indicator of my DP - the more anxious I was, the more empty they were, like my soul had departed.

At 27 I found the counsellor that would give me back my life. With a combination of mindfulness, cognitive therapy, inner child work and deeper techniques for trauma i slowly recovered. I am now in my mid-thirties and I wake up every morning clear, in reality and anxiety free.

Looking back the key was going into therapy with the right counsellor practicing the right techniques. Drugs don't work long-term, diet and exercise are only a small part of the equation. A lot of us have actually experienced trauma or abuse (internal as well as external ie. we have strong inner critics) and this has to be worked through. I am so passionate now about the pathway to recovery i have since trained as a counsellor to help others do the same.

It saddens me to see people thinking there is no way out, that they have been to therapists with no results, that they just stay stuck on medication because of false beliefs about 'imbalances in the brain'. YES there is a way out and I am living proof of it.

Joan


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## Guest

Thanks for responding~! I've been looking around for a while and what you listed I already believed to be crucial in recovery, but it's nice to get confirmation!

My thinking runs that DP is primarily a defensive mechanism against internal/emotional trauma or stress. It's a way of protecting ourselves from emotionally traumatic events like hard break ups, or the death of someone close until we can handle it. It also protects us from painful feelings at our cores such as deep self loathing or powerful internal conflicts that we do not want to face. DP is what happens when the threat comes from inside ourselves and we need to escape the inescapable, so we fog up our brains, loose are personality and emotions, and disassociate from our bodies.

Just my thought on it, and it makes sense for me at least.


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## Joan Smith

Hi Antimony,

Yes I agree with what you have said. The DP is the psyche's way of protecting us/itself. I think people get confused sometimes because they might not have had a history of family abuse but its whats going on internally that matters. It may also not be just the 'inner child' but other fragmented parts of the self that have separated and need integrating.
Finding therapists who understand this and can help work through it can be difficult. Not only do you need cbt, gestalt can also be a valuable method in recovery, i have done this as part of my recovery and use it in my counselling practice,
Joan


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## Guest

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Antimony,
> 
> Yes I agree with what you have said. The DP is the psyche's way of protecting us/itself. I think people get confused sometimes because they might not have had a history of family abuse but its whats going on internally that matters. It may also not be just the 'inner child' but other fragmented parts of the self that have separated and need integrating.
> Finding therapists who understand this and can help work through it can be difficult. Not only do you need cbt, gestalt can also be a valuable method in recovery, i have done this as part of my recovery and use it in my counselling practice,
> Joan


Hi Joan,

Thanks for taking the time here and helping people. Kudos to you!

I've read (and experienced) that bad therapy can actually make you worse. My current therapist is very knowledgable and experienced with working with people with dissociative disorders. Ever since I started seeing her (2 years ago) my internal system has settled a lot, and symptoms of dp and dr have lessened incredibly . Of course I'm very grateful to have found her.

Just can't stress enough how important it is to find a good therapist! That simple question to a potential therapist.... "do have you have much knowledge or experience working with people with DD's", can save a lot time, money, pain and heartache. I wish I'd asked that question to my first 3 T's.

Any thoughts on that?

Philo


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## Joan Smith

Hi Philo,

Absolutely you should always ask the therapist what their experience is with your symptoms and whether they have worked with it before. I find that because I've experienced DP and panic disorder that I can RELATE properly to my client's experience which helps immensely. For example just to hear someone say 'yes I know what it's like when you wake up in the morning and get that 5-30 second window of clarity before the fog comes back in or the veil comes back down' can be really heartening for someone who is suffering 24/7. Knowing that someone can help and they give you hope of recovery is a very important part of actually recovering - you need to BELIEVE that you will recover and they are going to help you do that.

I am a counsellor now and as part of my professional requirements I must have a supervisor (my own counsellor). I'm very choosy about this. I would check their professional experience, personal experience, how well I can relateo t and trust the person. You should feel like you are getting somewhere in the first few sessions - not cured but progressing. I wouldn't go with a drug advocate (unless the case is severe and it's an interim measure to help you cope/get through), I like to hear words like Mindfulness, Cognitive Technique, Gestalt, Parts Work, Acceptance & Commitment Therapy, Focussing and Compassion/Heart based work.

Joan


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## Hosscat

I don't suppose you suffered from obsessive existential thoughts? That's my big problem along with the foggy feeling. Im glad you have recovered its good when people who have it a long time come back and give others hope


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## Joan Smith

yes i did and it was very unsettling. I would look into the sky and be aware of the earth spinning on its axis or be frightened that a tidal wave might happen or feel how the human species is destroying the earth. These are all normal and part of increased sensitivity and not being grounded. With Dp we are in a constant state of altered consciousness so grounding is important. Anything that makes you trance out will likely make the dp worse.

Joan


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## Guest

Joan Smith said:


> I like to hear words like Mindfulness, Cognitive Technique, Gestalt, Parts Work, Acceptance & Commitment Therapy, Focussing and Compassion/Heart based work.


Thanks Joan,

I like those words too!

I believe 'Grounding' is something that would be very beneficial to talk more about on this site. Doesn't seem to get mentioned much? It's very important to learn how to ground yourself if you are a for person with DD's, and it's actually quite easy to do once you explore some techniques. Probably the main problem I have with grounding is, I mostly don't even realise I'm 'ungrounded' to start with. That can be tricky! Though once I pick up on it and realise I'm not in the 'here and now' grounding can make a huge difference very quickly..

Philo


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## Joan Smith

Hi Philo,

Yes it's something that was a bit of a light bulb moment for me when i realised so I'd like to explain more.

As I said, DP is like a constant altered state of consciousness. When I say this I mean it's like 'zoning out, spacing out, going into a trance' all the time.

Anything that triggers trancing out - driving, watching TV, exercising, flourescent lights etc. moves us into the state near DP. DP is slightly more complicated because it is involuntarily and you can't just 'snap out of it', however be mindful of when you trance out. As you practice mindfulness and gently notice when you trance out the pathway to recovery can start to open up,

Joan


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## LuluCalavera

I would love to be able to have weekly meeting with others who have been through this.

Anyone from texas?


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## izzy

Hi Joan I am so happy for you. I too hope to one day recover from this. I had a question though. Lately I question words. which makes it hard for me to communicate with others. I can have a conversation but it's like my body and mouth are used to it and reply back. I am really freaking out here. for instance my mom told me it looked like it was going to rain. and I asked myself. rain? whats rain? its like I know what it is but at the same time it does not click.


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## Guest

Something I've always had a bad habit of, and that's gotten much worse in the time leading up my developing DP do to stress, is that I tune into my thoughts and the chattering in my head to the point where I go into a trance. Trance is the best word for it because I'll snap out of it only to realize that I've flashed forward about five minutes with only a scant idea of what I was doing in that time.

Tuning in to my thoughts has an incredible ability to pull me out of reality and the moment; it's a night and day difference really. Their is a distinction between the mindless chattering or music in my head and actual conscious thought and the two don't seem to co-exist. I do have control over this chatter to the extent that I can change what it's about, or what music it happens to be, but I have a very hard time just shutting it off completely. It's like I have a radio in my head and all I can do is change the channel.

I feel like the chatter is their for a reason, because it has such a powerful ability to remove me from reality and that I feel very uncomfortable when ever it turns off on it's own to the point I try and start it up again.


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## Guest

Susto said:


> Antimony, I been facing the same issue and Meditation is been paramount at this point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this video can really help you understand what is happening within you


Thanks for the link, I'll give it look, but just from reading the descriptions and some of the comments from the creator, I feel like it might go too far into spirituality for my tastes.

I agree that meditation will be very helpful for me, I'm just not interested in getting very deep into the all the philosophy and spirituality behind it and it's looking like these videos are about that. I'm looking for something more basic, I suppose.


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## Midnight

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Antimony,
> 
> Yes I agree with what you have said. The DP is the psyche's way of protecting us/itself. I think people get confused sometimes because they might not have had a history of family abuse but its whats going on internally that matters. It may also not be just the 'inner child' but other fragmented parts of the self that have separated and need integrating.
> Finding therapists who understand this and can help work through it can be difficult. Not only do you need cbt, gestalt can also be a valuable method in recovery, i have done this as part of my recovery and use it in my counselling practice,
> Joan


What do you suggest for those of us who can´t find the emotional abuse in our pasts?

DP, or DR or whatever people want to call it, (I prefer to refer to it merely as the fog), has wiped out my past. I feel like I am nowhere... non-existant, so when I try to look back into my past as a child I keep thinking ´"My god..... was that really me?"

It´s like this condition cut the essential cord that bound all my past experiences together. It got rid of ´me´, and that included my history, dreams, ambitions, drives, personality, etc.

So what are my options? At the moment death is preferable.


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## roosh

Hi Joan,

Great to hear of your recovery after 10 years, this is very encouraging I'm about 8 years in and trying to do what I can to recover.

I've made some good step this year after 11 months of psychotherapy, which has now finished. I'm far less anxious than I was

but still very physically tense and have constant DP, despite mentally feeling pretty normal.

I wonder with mindfulness, how much did this help & how often do you practise?

I have a big issue with muscle tension, I wonder if you had this at all, and if so how you eased this physical symptom?

I also take prozac, which does nothing for the dp, but does help with mood, high anxiety and numbs the tension

a little...

So I'm wondering did you recover free of meds, or not?

My own thoughts on my own depersonalisation, would be that I have a deep rooted fear of death, so the DP is my
body's response to deal with my own fear of my mortality. I wonder if you had similar thoughts and feelings

and how you came to terms with them?

I also view depersonalisation as a subconscious defense mechanism, so I wonder how you managed to reverse

something, that to me seems automatic and not easily approached consciously despite my best efforts?

Sorry I'm asking quite a lot from you, but I'm interested in knowing how a long term sufferer finally beat this,

Any practical tips for beating this would be useful for me and I'm sure for many others, or any books you read

that helped.

I would be most grateful for any help getting myself started in the right direction.

Best Regards, Phil


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## Joan Smith

izz333 said:


> Hi Joan I am so happy for you. I too hope to one day recover from this. I had a question though. Lately I question words. which makes it hard for me to communicate with others. I can have a conversation but it's like my body and mouth are used to it and reply back. I am really freaking out here. for instance my mom told me it looked like it was going to rain. and I asked myself. rain? whats rain? its like I know what it is but at the same time it does not click.


Hi izz,

I know what you mean. I had a thing with words for a while where I'd think a word and then spell it out in my head over and over. It's no wonder we think we're losing it when this kind of stuff happens!

I can only emphasise this is what happens when we alter our state of consciousness and turn inward. Existential thoughts, obsessive thoughts, questioning reality are all common. When reality doesn't feel real anymore it's only natural to question it.

Watch the thoughts come and then let them go - try not to attach to them and give them life. Maybe give yourself an affirmaton like 'oh yes I'm turned inward again or I'm trancing out again so everything feels weird, but it's ok'.

I think what we don't realise is that this is a blessing in disguise - with the DP it's the first time we really get to see what's going on in our heads and how we are being with others. When you watch yourself speaking words to others have you become the 'witness'? People practice meditation for years to get to this place of witnessing,

Joan


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## Joan Smith

Antimony said:


> Something I've always had a bad habit of, and that's gotten much worse in the time leading up my developing DP do to stress, is that I tune into my thoughts and the chattering in my head to the point where I go into a trance. Trance is the best word for it because I'll snap out of it only to realize that I've flashed forward about five minutes with only a scant idea of what I was doing in that time.
> 
> Tuning in to my thoughts has an incredible ability to pull me out of reality and the moment; it's a night and day difference really. Their is a distinction between the mindless chattering or music in my head and actual conscious thought and the two don't seem to co-exist. I do have control over this chatter to the extent that I can change what it's about, or what music it happens to be, but I have a very hard time just shutting it off completely. It's like I have a radio in my head and all I can do is change the channel.
> 
> I feel like the chatter is their for a reason, because it has such a powerful ability to remove me from reality and that I feel very uncomfortable when ever it turns off on it's own to the point I try and start it up again.


Hi Antimony,

Ok so we spend a lot of time RESISTING the chattering in our heads because it disturbs us and frightens us. DP is like a tuning receiver where all of a sudden we hear all this stuff in our heads that we couldn't hear before. It WAS there before but we couldn't hear it. Now we can. I am not an advocate of only learning mindfulness and meditation to let the thoughts go. For someone at your stage I would be encouraging going into the voices - with a therapist or counsellor - someone who makes the space safe enough for you to journey in. The chatter is there for a reason. These may be fragmented parts of yourself that need integrating - the voices can get loud and scary because they want to be integrated and most of the time we just ignore them or hide from them because we are scared of becoming schizophrenic or getting multiple personalities. This fear is usually due to the lack of information, misinformation and stigma society holds around mental illness. Think of the voices like this, we can all hear the voice that chatters to us when we stuff something up right? Doh! that was stupid! it might say or something along these lines. We ALL have this right? And we're aren't all schizophrenic because of that voice are we?

Joan


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## Joan Smith

Midnight said:


> What do you suggest for those of us who can´t find the emotional abuse in our pasts?
> 
> DP, or DR or whatever people want to call it, (I prefer to refer to it merely as the fog), has wiped out my past. I feel like I am nowhere... non-existant, so when I try to look back into my past as a child I keep thinking ´"My god..... was that really me?"
> 
> It´s like this condition cut the essential cord that bound all my past experiences together. It got rid of ´me´, and that included my history, dreams, ambitions, drives, personality, etc.
> 
> So what are my options? At the moment death is preferable.


Hi Midnight,

Keep the faith, you can recover just like I did.

Don't expect yourself to just be able to 'feel' your past or think about your past and have any emotion about it. That's part of why you have DP - so you don't feel it or feel attached to it. To help you more I really need to get a feel for your background and story, then I can make some suggestions to slowly bring you back. For a start, find a photo of yourself as a child and put it somewhere you can see it regularly.

Joan


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## Joan Smith

roosh said:


> Hi Joan,
> 
> Great to hear of your recovery after 10 years, this is very encouraging I'm about 8 years in and trying to do what I can to recover.
> 
> I've made some good step this year after 11 months of psychotherapy, which has now finished. I'm far less anxious than I was
> 
> but still very physically tense and have constant DP, despite mentally feeling pretty normal.
> 
> I wonder with mindfulness, how much did this help & how often do you practise?
> 
> I have a big issue with muscle tension, I wonder if you had this at all, and if so how you eased this physical symptom?
> 
> I also take prozac, which does nothing for the dp, but does help with mood, high anxiety and numbs the tension
> 
> a little...
> 
> So I'm wondering did you recover free of meds, or not?
> 
> My own thoughts on my own depersonalisation, would be that I have a deep rooted fear of death, so the DP is my
> body's response to deal with my own fear of my mortality. I wonder if you had similar thoughts and feelings
> 
> and how you came to terms with them?
> 
> I also view depersonalisation as a subconscious defense mechanism, so I wonder how you managed to reverse
> 
> something, that to me seems automatic and not easily approached consciously despite my best efforts?
> 
> Sorry I'm asking quite a lot from you, but I'm interested in knowing how a long term sufferer finally beat this,
> 
> Any practical tips for beating this would be useful for me and I'm sure for many others, or any books you read
> 
> that helped.
> 
> I would be most grateful for any help getting myself started in the right direction.
> 
> Best Regards, Phil


Hi Phil,

You're a long time sufferer - so that makes you experienced with the thoughts, feelings and sensations of DP. Of course you will be having moments when you think it's never going to go, but now you can start drawing on your experience to help yourself.

I'll go through your questions/comments one by one

1) Question for you....what kind of work did you do with your therapist?

2) I practice mindfulness all the time, most days unless I just want to rest or be in the moment without witnessing (having said that the witness is always there and can see even if you are in the present moment). Mindfulness is a life skill to sort stuff out - not just DP.

3) I had A LOT of muscle tension - I had a lot of massage to help alleviate it - the truth is it that your issues are held in your body and until you resolve them the body will continue to hold them.

4) Yes I recovered free of meds - I came off them 6 months into my therapy. Their is an upside and downside to meds. The upside is less anxiety and feeling like you can cope better. The downside is they don't just numb your anxiety but also your ability to feel at a deep level which is what you need to do to recover.

5) I agree fear of death is a major driver - how you deal with this depends on your beliefs about death.

6) The way through is to face the fear and show yourself there is nothing to fear

7) I've read a lot of books over time. However it was my work in therapy / experiential work that did the most for me. Too often we try to intellectualise things in our society when we really need to just feel and get into the emotions and the body.

Joan


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## Hosscat

Im glad you overcame your thoughts. I keep obsessing about life, the whole what if its not real thing. Its been daily for about 6 months and is tough, but im hopeful ill look back and think it was just a weird phase in my life and not feel the doubt.


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## Guest

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Antimony,
> 
> Ok so we spend a lot of time RESISTING the chattering in our heads because it disturbs us and frightens us. DP is like a tuning receiver where all of a sudden we hear all this stuff in our heads that we couldn't hear before. It WAS there before but we couldn't hear it. Now we can. I am not an advocate of only learning mindfulness and meditation to let the thoughts go. For someone at your stage I would be encouraging going into the voices - with a therapist or counsellor - someone who makes the space safe enough for you to journey in. The chatter is there for a reason. These may be fragmented parts of yourself that need integrating - the voices can get loud and scary because they want to be integrated and most of the time we just ignore them or hide from them because we are scared of becoming schizophrenic or getting multiple personalities. This fear is usually due to the lack of information, misinformation and stigma society holds around mental illness. Think of the voices like this, we can all hear the voice that chatters to us when we stuff something up right? Doh! that was stupid! it might say or something along these lines. We ALL have this right? And we're aren't all schizophrenic because of that voice are we?
> 
> Joan


Mmmm, thanks for the reply, but I don't think I explained myself well enough. The voice in my head is my own, and I always know what it's talking about because I decide that. It's more like I'm constantly having a conversation with myself, and if I let myself, I can become so absorbed in this conversation I can end up in a trance if their is nothing to pull me back out. I know there's nothing wrong with it, but my problem is I do it constantly out of habit so I spend more time mingling with myself in my head then engaging with reality, or at the very least I'm half in and half out. This has been happening my whole life, it's just that I'm now seeing it as a problem, I feel separated from myself and reality enough without pulling myself into my own thoughts.

It's odd, but when I sit in my head and have a conversation with myself, the me in my head feels perfectly normal.


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## DP boy

do you feel as if you never had dp now that ur fully recovered ??


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## roosh

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> You're a long time sufferer - so that makes you experienced with the thoughts, feelings and sensations of DP. Of course you will be having moments when you think it's never going to go, but now you can start drawing on your experience to help yourself.
> 
> I'll go through your questions/comments one by one
> 
> 1) Question for you....what kind of work did you do with your therapist?
> 
> 2) I practice mindfulness all the time, most days unless I just want to rest or be in the moment without witnessing (having said that the witness is always there and can see even if you are in the present moment). Mindfulness is a life skill to sort stuff out - not just DP.
> 
> 3) I had A LOT of muscle tension - I had a lot of massage to help alleviate it - the truth is it that your issues are held in your body and until you resolve them the body will continue to hold them.
> 
> 4) Yes I recovered free of meds - I came off them 6 months into my therapy. Their is an upside and downside to meds. The upside is less anxiety and feeling like you can cope better. The downside is they don't just numb your anxiety but also your ability to feel at a deep level which is what you need to do to recover.
> 
> 5) I agree fear of death is a major driver - how you deal with this depends on your beliefs about death.
> 
> 6) The way through is to face the fear and show yourself there is nothing to fear
> 
> 7) I've read a lot of books over time. However it was my work in therapy / experiential work that did the most for me. Too often we try to intellectualise things in our society when we really need to just feel and get into the emotions and the body.
> 
> Joan


Hi Joan,

Thanks for replying.

To answer your question I did several types of work with my therapist.

I did some EMDR, some imagery work, some mindfulness & lots of stuff about childhood.

I would say I entered therapy with an anxiety level of 10/10 and left with maybe a 2 or 3/10.

I would say I'm more in touch with my feelings and less fearful of most things

thanks to therapy, but I find it hard to shake off the core fear or whatever the holding back is

that causes the DP.

Most of my major anxieties have subdued somewhat, so I think I've come a long way,

but I still can't shake off the DP or muscle tension.

I asked about the mindfulness, as I do it ocassionally and it does calm me down,

although doesn't clear the dp. So I'm wondering if I need to practice this more?

You mention the way through is to "face your fear and show yourself there is nothing to

fear". I'm interested to know how your fears differ now you've recovered, do you ruminate

on things less? How has your perspective changed? How do you truly believe there is nothing

to fear?

Also how did you face your fears in a practical sense, what convinced you that your

anxiety wasn't worth worrying about?

On an intellectual level I can understand that living anxiously is a ridiculous way to

spend your life and its better to live in the moment and enjoy it, but on a physical/subconsious

level can't seem to stop the holding back, dp and tension.

Thanks Phil


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## Joan Smith

Antimony said:


> Mmmm, thanks for the reply, but I don't think I explained myself well enough. The voice in my head is my own, and I always know what it's talking about because I decide that. It's more like I'm constantly having a conversation with myself, and if I let myself, I can become so absorbed in this conversation I can end up in a trance if their is nothing to pull me back out. I know there's nothing wrong with it, but my problem is I do it constantly out of habit so I spend more time m,ingling with myself in my head then engaging with reality, or at the very least I'm half in and half out. This has been happening my whole life, it's just that I'm now seeing it as a problem, I feel separated from myself and reality enough without pulling myself into my own thoughts.
> 
> It's odd, but when I sit in my head and have a conversation with myself, the me in my head feels perfectly normal.


Hi Antimony,

Ok so the voice is yours and you always decide on the content? Is there any point that you don't decide and thoughts just come? Do you only

feel normal when engaged in conversation with yourself i.e. if you are mingling externally is that where you feel the DP?


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## Joan Smith

DP boy said:


> do you feel as if you never had dp now that ur fully recovered ??


Most of the time, yes it does feel like it never happened. I always remember the feeling of it though. And only if I'm really anxious will the feeling start to come back - then I know I'm off track and what to do - i.e. I've turned it into a voluntary rather than involuntary response to stress. At this stage I'm working on completing ridding myself of the 'involuntary' mechanism so my psyche changes the way it processes stress. It's a deep level.

Joan


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## Joan Smith

roosh said:


> Hi Joan,
> 
> Thanks for replying.
> 
> To answer your question I did several types of work with my therapist.
> 
> I did some EMDR, some imagery work, some mindfulness & lots of stuff about childhood.
> 
> I would say I entered therapy with an anxiety level of 10/10 and left with maybe a 2 or 3/10.
> 
> I would say I'm more in touch with my feelings and less fearful of most things
> 
> thanks to therapy, but I find it hard to shake off the core fear or whatever the holding back is
> 
> that causes the DP.
> 
> Most of my major anxieties have subdued somewhat, so I think I've come a long way,
> 
> but I still can't shake off the DP or muscle tension.
> 
> I asked about the mindfulness, as I do it ocassionally and it does calm me down,
> 
> although doesn't clear the dp. So I'm wondering if I need to practice this more?
> 
> You mention the way through is to "face your fear and show yourself there is nothing to
> 
> fear". I'm interested to know how your fears differ now you've recovered, do you ruminate
> 
> on things less? How has your perspective changed? How do you truly believe there is nothing
> 
> to fear?
> 
> Also how did you face your fears in a practical sense, what convinced you that your
> 
> anxiety wasn't worth worrying about?
> 
> On an intellectual level I can understand that living anxiously is a ridiculous way to
> 
> spend your life and its better to live in the moment and enjoy it, but on a physical/subconsious
> 
> level can't seem to stop the holding back, dp and tension.
> 
> Thanks Phil


Hi Phil,

It sounds like you're a long way into understanding the mechinations of DP - good on you. Mindfulness at this stage is just for when you start falling back or feel DP coming over - you use it then to find out what you're thinking and change it /your reaction to it in the moment.

In terms of my fears I learned that you must face each one head on - you go through them rather than trying to avoid them. Underneath a lot of us are afraid of surrender (because this feels vulnerable and can feel the same as death). We keep resisting, bracing, fearing the 'what ifs'. Control is dear to us. Yes I do ruminate on things a lot less (although I'll always have a curious, philosophical mind) and I've stopped trying to control everything. The irony about DP is we are afraid of it - but it is there as a result of our fear - a paradox that is difficult to untangle. So the more you fear the more it stays in place.

Splitting yourself out from your inner child is a crucial step in the process. When you realise it is the child that is the DP and that holds the fear then you can make great strides forward.

Yes I truly believe there is nothing to fear,

Joan

p.s. I just had an afterthought - did you try focussing with your therapist to get into your body?


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## Guest

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Antimony,
> 
> Ok so the voice is yours and you always decide on the content? Is there any point that you don't decide and thoughts just come? Do you only
> 
> feel normal when engaged in conversation with yourself i.e. if you are mingling externally is that where you feel the DP?


Yes, when I'm talking or doing things with other people my DP feels much worse, or really anything that requires me to be more engaged with reality.

Other things do come through, usually feelings without words attached, but I usually ignore them for the few seconds their in my head, or push them away by filling my head up with pointless thinking. I think I think so much because I don't want to leave space for anything meaningful to come into my head.

By the by, my DP started after I spent months in a sever codependent relationship where I was convinced I was the only thing stopping a friend from killing himself. To be honest, I've known him for years, and this has always been an issue on some level. I ended up suffering from burnout and then DP a month later.


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## Midnight

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Midnight,
> 
> Keep the faith, you can recover just like I did.
> 
> Don't expect yourself to just be able to 'feel' your past or think about your past and have any emotion about it. That's part of why you have DP - so you don't feel it or feel attached to it. To help you more I really need to get a feel for your background and story, then I can make some suggestions to slowly bring you back. For a start, find a photo of yourself as a child and put it somewhere you can see it regularly.
> 
> Joan


Hey

Why put a picture of myself as a child near me? I can PM you some background details, would you prefer me to PM or respond on here?

Thanks.


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## roosh

Joan Smith said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> It sounds like you're a long way into understanding the mechinations of DP - good on you. Mindfulness at this stage is just for when you start falling back or feel DP coming over - you use it then to find out what you're thinking and change it /your reaction to it in the moment.
> 
> In terms of my fears I learned that you must face each one head on - you go through them rather than trying to avoid them. Underneath a lot of us are afraid of surrender (because this feels vulnerable and can feel the same as death). We keep resisting, bracing, fearing the 'what ifs'. Control is dear to us. Yes I do ruminate on things a lot less (although I'll always have a curious, philosophical mind) and I've stopped trying to control everything. The irony about DP is we are afraid of it - but it is there as a result of our fear - a paradox that is difficult to untangle. So the more you fear the more it stays in place.
> 
> Splitting yourself out from your inner child is a crucial step in the process. When you realise it is the child that is the DP and that holds the fear then you can make great strides forward.
> 
> Yes I truly believe there is nothing to fear,
> 
> Joan
> 
> p.s. I just had an afterthought - did you try focussing with your therapist to get into your body?


Hi Joan,

I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense, particularly being "afraid of surrender". I can relate to that.

I have done quite a lot of work getting into my body in therapy. Imagery work, always worked well with me. EMDR also usually brought up a lot of odd thoughts, usually death, blood, gore etc

As for facing fears, I don't really actively avoid anything, or feel that afraid in everyday life . I do notice though if something gives me a fright, it can really shock my system, so I think deep down I'm still very much on danger alert, the types of dreams I have would also indicate a lot of underlying anxiety.

I wonder how you believe there is nothing to fear? Is this because you know you are strong enough to deal with what ever life throws at you?

I think with me I do still think a lot of "what ifs" and imagine I can't cope with threatening situations. As you mention control is very dear to us.

Interesting about the inner child, I would use "subconscious", so I guess I feel like I'm ruled by my inner child who is really difficult to control.

Thanks for your replies Joan, and I'm really pleased you recovered from this after such a long time and its admirable you are putting your energies into helping others through counselling, a lot of what you say confirms what I believe and have been told in therapy, I just seem to find it hard to put into practise but will keep trying to be the best I can be.

Best, Phil


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## Joan Smith

roosh said:


> Hi Joan,
> 
> I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense, particularly being "afraid of surrender". I can relate to that.
> 
> I have done quite a lot of work getting into my body in therapy. Imagery work, always worked well with me. EMDR also usually brought up a lot of odd thoughts, usually death, blood, gore etc
> 
> As for facing fears, I don't really actively avoid anything, or feel that afraid in everyday life . I do notice though if something gives me a fright, it can really shock my system, so I think deep down I'm still very much on danger alert, the types of dreams I have would also indicate a lot of underlying anxiety.
> 
> I wonder how you believe there is nothing to fear? Is this because you know you are strong enough to deal with what ever life throws at you?
> 
> I think with me I do still think a lot of "what ifs" and imagine I can't cope with threatening situations. As you mention control is very dear to us.
> 
> Interesting about the inner child, I would use "subconscious", so I guess I feel like I'm ruled by my inner child who is really difficult to control.
> 
> Thanks for your replies Joan, and I'm really pleased you recovered from this after such a long time and its admirable you are putting your energies into helping others through counselling, a lot of what you say confirms what I believe and have been told in therapy, I just seem to find it hard to put into practise but will keep trying to be the best I can be.
> 
> Best, Phil


Hi Phil,

I've just got a couple of comments on your post.

Underlying blood, death, gore can be unresolved anger which masks pain. You could try going into these thoughts and see where they lead / tie back to.

You can try doing body work yourself - when you notice a tension held in the body, go into it, become it and ask it why it's there.

Inner child is just one term - as you said you can use 'subconscious' - whatever fits and yes that is what is running the show for you at the moment. As you separate from this with mindfulness you can gain more control (this is what is called 'parenting your own child').

In terms of the fear - i am not afraid of the contents of my own psyche anymore - that's the fear battle.

Joan


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## Joan Smith

Midnight said:


> Hey
> 
> Why put a picture of myself as a child near me? I can PM you some background details, would you prefer me to PM or respond on here?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi Midnight,

the photo is to start reconnecting you to yourself. It doesn't strictly have to be of you as a child. You can be any age, but it needs to be whatever age is strongly held in your memory. You might be 5 or you might be 14. Whichever you are drawn to.

Yes please PM me and we can go from there,

Joan


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## Joan Smith

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the interest in my story and experiences, I'm very happy to be sharing and hopefully helping some of you with the thread.

I'm going to try and find somewhere on the site where it might be appropriate to let people know I am a qualified counsellor and run online counselling sessions (just to clarify these would not be free). If you think it might be something that can help you please send me a PM and I can direct you to my website where you can have a look at my background, qualifications, methods and cost of sessions.

In the meantime I'm going to try and start reading other people's threads and commenting around the forum.

Again all questions about my experience are welcome,

warmly

Joan


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## philandrjack

Thank you for your posts Joan, they are reassuring and helpful It really made my day to read your story, I found parts of myself in it,


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## Joan Smith

Antimony said:


> Yes, when I'm talking or doing things with other people my DP feels much worse, or really anything that requires me to be more engaged with reality.
> 
> Other things do come through, usually feelings without words attached, but I usually ignore them for the few seconds their in my head, or push them away by filling my head up with pointless thinking. I think I think so much because I don't want to leave space for anything meaningful to come into my head.
> 
> By the by, my DP started after I spent months in a sever codependent relationship where I was convinced I was the only thing stopping a friend from killing himself. To be honest, I've known him for years, and this has always been an issue on some level. I ended up suffering from burnout and then DP a month later.


Hi Antimony,

Yes my DP was ALWAYS worse when engaging with other people - usually due to my mask i.e. my being afraid to be truly myself with other people. I'd subconsciously be fretting about what people thought about me, now I realised it was what I thought about myself.

Feelings are pre-verbal, we have them before we learn how to communicate and they are there in any preliminary stage of thinking, creating, doing, reacting, responding etc. That's what 'focussing' is all about. Feeling those feelings in the body and allowing them to convert to thoughts and images. You can try letting go in a meditation and just adopt the witnessing stance, allowing thoughts/images to come and go. Or you could try focussing on the feeling and then become it and write down what it has to say.

It sounds like the relationship was a big factor into the slip into DP. Relationships that aren't inter-dependent and are co-dependant can be HUGE anxiety and DP drivers. We often feel stuck and responsible and can't take the steps we need to so we disappear through the DP. Sometimes depression as well.

Joan


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## am94406

Joan please email me [email protected]


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## dpdr

I am curious how you feel after 5 years of clonazepam withdrawl? Doesnt this trigger your DP/DR?


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## Joan Smith

dpdr said:


> I am curious how you feel after 5 years of clonazepam withdrawl? Doesnt this trigger your DP/DR?


 At first it did because I was so anxious about it and the more anxious I was the worse my DP got. For me the medication was halting the process that I needed to go through to heal, because I was too afraid something terrible would happen if I let go. Eventually with my therapist holding my hand (baby steps) i found the courage to let go. I tried using medication, coffee, nicotine etc. to cut through the fog but in the end the fog was staying there because I was holding on to a lot of fear and pain.


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## Manof_theFuture

Joan Smith said:


> Hi,
> 
> So I was 19. My parents had moved away from the town I was in and not long after that separated. I was living with a man I didn't really want to be with. I was quite lonely and getting depressed. I was on the rebound in this relationship and struggling to get over my ex even though it had been a year since we broke up.
> I met this guy and started smoking a lot of marijuana. For about 18 months I was ok, then I started getting paranoid when I was high and freaking out thinking I couldn't breathe. One night was really bad, I had a mix of amphetamine, marijuana and alcohol. I was begging my boyfriend to take me to hospital convinced I was going to die.
> 
> The depersonalisation set in about two weeks later. I woke up, getting ready to go to uni and I felt like my head was foggy. It felt weird but I sort of shook it off thinking I needed a coffee or something. That day I got worse and worse, not coming out of this fog and I started panicking. It felt like I was stoned permanently and couldn't get out of it.
> 
> I was convinced I had done something to myself with the drugs, that I was 'turning schizophrenic'. The panic and anxiety got worse until eventually it was full blown 24/7. I didn't tell anyone thinking they would lock me up.
> 
> I suffered like that for another 18 months before I got the courage to leave my boyfriend. I had started reading self help books and thinking I was going through a nervous breakdown. It was hard to find answers and the whole time I was just waiting to go mad or thinking I might be stuck in this prison (depersonalisation) for the rest of my life.
> 
> I continued to suffer for another couple of years. Eventually I gave up hope and went to a psychiatrist desperate for help. He prescribed me clonazepam - i took that for another 5 years before I realised it wasn't working. During that time I found the DP self help forums and a group of us even met up and had lunch one day- sharing our experiences. It was very strange to meet with a group of people all with that empty look in their eyes. Lights on no one home!
> 
> My eyes were always the best indicator of my DP - the more anxious I was, the more empty they were, like my soul had departed.
> 
> At 27 I found the counsellor that would give me back my life. With a combination of mindfulness, cognitive therapy, inner child work and deeper techniques for trauma i slowly recovered. I am now in my mid-thirties and I wake up every morning clear, in reality and anxiety free.
> 
> Looking back the key was going into therapy with the right counsellor practicing the right techniques. Drugs don't work long-term, diet and exercise are only a small part of the equation. A lot of us have actually experienced trauma or abuse (internal as well as external ie. we have strong inner critics) and this has to be worked through. I am so passionate now about the pathway to recovery i have since trained as a counsellor to help others do the same.
> 
> It saddens me to see people thinking there is no way out, that they have been to therapists with no results, that they just stay stuck on medication because of false beliefs about 'imbalances in the brain'. YES there is a way out and I am living proof of it.
> 
> Joan


I'm writing this right now because I'm afraid that this DP feeling won't stop...I have feared the worst that I am going into a schizophrenic mind state...like I still have my insight but I'm struggling to keep it or at least I feel like I am struggling...the problem is that I was feeling so much better for like 2 and half weeks when I got my new job...
*minor intrusive thoughts and memories (easy to dismiss them if they popped up)
*minor spacey Or out of body feelings (when it occurred I was able to look over it while working)
*Emotions were back to normal (laughed at appropriate times and angry at appropriate times as well lol)
And dreams were slightly vivid or normal lol idk dreams are freaking weird (didn't really interrupt with daily life)
{Mind you all symptoms above were worse before I got the job.}

Basically I felt like I was on the road to full recovery...then one night I went to sleep and the vivid dreams came back...invading my well being the next day..I'm not sure if this feels worse than before or if I'm just the same but overthinking it all...so nw I'm here and I feel terrible...the only thing I can salvage is that my surroundings don't seem foreign anymore...my emotions, and appetite are still in tact (came back with my first feeling of recovery) but I still have slight brain fog and the intrusive thoughts and memories have been tearing me apart more than ever  so I just want to know if anyone who has fully recovered experienced this or if anybody who has recently gone through this part of the symptoms, is there a brighter day after this? I just need hope because I'm starting college in like a few days and I don't want to be all jacked up for a semester i want to be able to meet new people...
My DP was induced by marijuana ...
I don't smoke anymore..
Don't drink at all..
Only chemical changes I make to my brain is masturbating (excuse me for being explicit but I need help)
Also I constantly feel like this weird pop rocks sensation in my hindbrain...sorry of the long post but please help if you can...


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## Manof_theFuture

izzy said:


> Hi Joan I am so happy for you. I too hope to one day recover from this. I had a question though. Lately I question words. which makes it hard for me to communicate with others. I can have a conversation but it's like my body and mouth are used to it and reply back. I am really freaking out here. for instance my mom told me it looked like it was going to rain. and I asked myself. rain? whats rain? its like I know what it is but at the same time it does not click.


Omg this is the same exact thing i have right now this is the worst its like im just automatically responding to people but in my mind i question if im saying the right things to them then seldom i gain some control over what i want to say and i talk all jumbled whichs makes me fear schizophrenia lol


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## JJ123D

^^

yea weird enough, it was the same post I totally resonated with and liked in this thread. You say the right logical things automatically, but in your head you don't really understand what you said, as if it wasn't you who said it.


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## Manof_theFuture

Yea man it totally has me tripping out lol but it sure beats not being able to communicate at all i guess


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## JJ123D

I've tried and still sometimes try to not to communicate at all till I feel that I have my logic or myself back.

Ironically, more than a year ago, I also tried not to communicate at all to LOSE myself, because I thought it was fake and that I was discovering truth by destroying it, that's how I reached my goal, which was DP.


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## Manof_theFuture

I see what you mean i was the same i started caving myself in from people because of my social anxiety...it made me think that i was a loser...but the lie detector test dermined that was a lie...(maury reference) people tell me all the time what an impact i was on their lives but my underlying anxiety never let me see this...but this weed induced DP, though very frighting at first as well as crippling...has allowed me to face my anxiety head on at least thats what i get from it...so in other words each time you are trying to communicate that is anxiety telling you that you cant but you have to push passed that feeling and say what YOU know YOU want to say


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