# Put an "End All" comment to religion!



## MrMortgage

Here it goes folks! Attending a good church/temple in any religion is good for the soul, and makes a person more disciplined.

As long as you go to a church/temple that doesnt get "cult like" it can only be a benefit to you.

In the end WHEN Jesus comes I got a free ticket home other people that dont believe are going to be left out in the cold...

And if it turns out that religion was all bullcrap and the "messiah" never comes or Jesus never comes, or Buddah never comes, at least I learned more about life due to studying the bible and kept myself inline to live better on this earth.

It's a win win situation for me, and that's how people should see it for themselves, and after while being in church/temple for a long time you finally start to feel something special, and that feeling helps you feel more wise and in touch with being "human".


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## Guest

I'm telling you, the man has figured out Pascal's Wager.

I love it!


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## MrMortgage

littlecrocodile said:


> I'm telling you, the man has figured out Pascal's Wager.
> 
> I love it!


Oh thank you littlecrocodile!!! You are the first person to call me a man LOL! I really got to read up about these guys you talk about, this is crap I've been thinking about since I was in first grade LOL.


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## Guest

The whole "When Jesus comes; I told you so.." sermon gets kind of old after a while. Preaching such a sermon to grown adults or little children like myself is futile. If the church had changed you so much, you would know that.

Enough arguing here though. I am just sick of the self righteous stand that not just christians take, but certain people out of many religions. You all should be smart enough to know that I am the only one with all the answers, and that I am right about everything.


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## agentcooper

MrMortgage said:


> Here it goes folks! Attending a good church/temple in any religion is good for the soul, and makes a person more disciplined.
> 
> As long as you go to a church/temple that doesnt get "cult like" it can only be a benefit to you.
> 
> In the end WHEN Jesus comes I got a free ticket home other people that dont believe are going to be left out in the cold...
> 
> .


ummm...didn't you just read that post about "catholicism ruined my life"?! that is a perfect example of how religion can really mess people up! i grew up very mormon (contrary to popular belief, it wasn't cult-like at all...just a religion like any other), and when i was 18 i started questioning my beliefs. i went through a horrible time of guilt and lying to myself before i finally decided to figure my own spirituality out for myself. i'm much happier now than i ever was in the church.

and also, that thing about when jesus comes there are going to be all kinds of people left out in the cold?!? that is just the kind of thing that really pisses me off about people who are in organized religion...you basically said, "regardless of what kind of person you are, if you don't belong to this religion, you are going to hell when jesus gets here." hmmm...it's just the kind of thing jesus would have said, isn't it? it really sucks that all of those really good people who haven't ever heard of jesus are going to be left out in the cold...

and i know you'll disagree with me, mrmortgage, and i'm not trying to start a fight here, i just want you to think about this, k?


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## Guest

I thought the Mafia was the only organisation that made you pay for protection up front or they'll ruin your sh|t later?


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## Dreamer

Mr. Mortgage said:


> And if it turns out that religion was all bullcrap and the "messiah" never comes or Jesus never comes, or *Buddah never comes*, at least I learned more about life due to studying the bible and kept myself inline to live better on this earth.


Just wanted to clarify, Buddhism is a religion (a set of practices and rituals, a way of thinking, a certain approach to life) but it is a NON-THEISTIC religion. The Buddha was a man. He isn't "coming back". We use Buddhist teachings to apply to everyday life. A key point says, "Life is Pain, We choose to suffer." Very few can achieve "full enlightenment", even those who are students whose focus is entirely focused on this. The rest of us simply try to live by the tenets offered by the Buddha.

All religions have these rituals, beliefs, etc. If one grows up in Japan, the Middle East, Northern Africa, India... well Christianity isn't the primary belief system. What of all of these people? And in countries all over the world?

I take the best of many religions, though I'm not a theist. I am agnostic as I will not say with complete certainy that there isn't some "higher power", but I see it more constructive to focus on the "now", making the world better now.

And yes, the warning that those of us who aren't Christian are doomed ... well there are plenty of folks on the Earth who are doomed then.

I agree it serves no purpose to argue this point, and I agree that we should study many different religions and glean the best from each.

Buddha was not a God -- that has been misinterpreted over time. Also I believe there are some sects who probably believe he is, but this varies from the original teachings of the Buddha.

Just to clarify.

I also believe how one is raised deeply affects religion thought, theistic or otherwise. And one can embrace it or as agentcooper did, reject it. I was raised by an atheist who wouldn't be caught dead in a Church, yet initially sent me to a Catholic girls school -- literally "The Convent of the Sacred Heart." I was so frightened and confused there, as I was not baptized and was told I would go to Hell by the kids that I begged my mother to go somewhere else.

Oddly enough she was pissed at me, but I ended up at a non-denominational private school, where kids were Christian, and had no problem with me. I attended Church and Synagoge as a young girl, and we were encouraged to learn about the religiou beliefs of others in order to be tolerant and respectful.

Life experiences I think deeply affect one's beliefs. I will say, being in Synagoge and in Church (particularly powerful, beautiful buildings and where there are wonderful sermons and teachings are very moving for me.)

Peace,
D


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## Guest

> I thought the Mafia was the only organisation that made you pay for protection up front or they'll ruin your sh|t later?


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## Dreamer

An excellent breakdown of World Religions on "Adherents.Com" forgot to get the URL. I'll also try to get the pie chart which is rather interesting

"Sizes shown are approximate estimates, and are here mainly for the purpose of ordering the groups, not providing a definitive number. This list is sociological/statistical in perspective.)"

*Christianity: 2.1 billion

Islam: 1.3 billion

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

Hinduism: 900 million

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

Buddhism: 376 million

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand*


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## Dreamer

Adherents.Com -- strictly breaking down the religions of the world. There are many. Christian and Islam are of course the dominant religions.

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

I'll try the pie chart image from the page... it might not work.... just go to the link above to see it.










I am also not trying to start an arguement, just trying to get the facts out there.


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## Guest

Pure Narcotic said:


> I thought the Mafia was the only organisation that made you pay for protection up front or they'll ruin your sh|t later?
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## peacedove

Dreamer said:


> The Buddha was a man. He isn't "coming back".


lol


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## MrMortgage

peacedove said:


> Dreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Buddha was a man. He isn't "coming back".
> 
> 
> 
> lol
Click to expand...

I wasnt being serious when I said Buddah is coming back, I just used it as an example, to throw away all religion if we find out at the "end" or when the space aliens come back and tell us that they made up all the religions!

And as for someone early being angry about God sending everyone to hell...well that just shows how much that person knows about the bible and how much the rest of the world knows about Christianity. And how much the majority of the churches out there got it all wrong now! The bible never changed, only the followers did. The bible even says that in the last days the church will stray so far from the true gospel that the spirit of Elijah will have to come and put things in order again!

The bible says that all belivers in Christ will not have to go through the tribulation, the people left behind will have the choice of having one more chance to come to Chirst but they will have to suffer during the tribulation and not give into the anit-christ!

This might mean starving to death and watching youre family starve to death as well. Who knows....

That's kinda a quick summary of it all, but if people dont like it then dont worry about it, dont even give it another thought, but dont say I didnt tell you so if it does happen, and if it doesnt happen, well I guess I was wrong, oh well life goes on but if I'm right, too bad for you....


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## agentcooper

MrMortgage said:


> And as for someone early being angry about God sending everyone to hell...well that just shows how much that person knows about the bible and how much the rest of the world knows about Christianity. And how much the majority of the churches out there got it all wrong now! The bible never changed, only the followers did. The bible even says that in the last days the church will stray so far from the true gospel that the spirit of Elijah will have to come and put things in order again!
> 
> The bible says that all belivers in Christ will not have to go through the tribulation, the people left behind will have the choice of having one more chance to come to Chirst but they will have to suffer during the tribulation and not give into the anit-christ!
> 
> This might mean starving to death and watching youre family starve to death as well. Who knows....


so watching your family starve to death wouldn't be hell? why would jesus make all the people, both bad and good, go through all sorts of tribulations?

look, all i'm saying is that having religion and believing in christ isn't wonderful for everyone...it all depends on the person. i'm glad that you have found something that works for you, though...


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## Guest

The Bible never even mentions a rapture or a tribulation. I know there is one or two verses that say something about going into the sky, but how do you conclude that a rapture will come from that? The bible alludes to no such thing as 7 years of non christians taking it up the ass from the anti christ.

The verses never say anything about them going into the sky for any period of time. It never even mentions a group of people who go into the sky. It never sais anything about people being left behind. All's I remember about the verse is that it's about as vague as it gets, and it could be interpreted as just about anything. But to see a big fairy tale come from about 20 words? WoWWWWW

I used to believe in that stuff very much until I realized that nobody had ever heard of any rapture or tribulation before the year 1820 when a woman in Massachusetts invented it. Research it and stop being so credulous as you are.

The Bible is right in saying that people will stray away from the true gospel. You are proving that right now with your self righteousness, idiocy and complete arrogance.


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## Guest

What Jesus is referring to when he talks about appearing in the clouds is the "Chariot Passage" of the first chapter of Ezekial, which, acording to Jewish tradition, a person is not supposed to read unless they are male and over 40. Otherwise they'll go mad.


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## MrMortgage

Pure Narcotic said:


> The Bible never even mentions a rapture or a tribulation. I know there is one or two verses that say something about going into the sky, but how do you conclude that a rapture will come from that? The bible alludes to no such thing as 7 years of non christians taking it up the ass from the anti christ.
> 
> The verses never say anything about them going into the sky for any period of time. It never even mentions a group of people who go into the sky. It never sais anything about people being left behind. All's I remember about the verse is that it's about as vague as it gets, and it could be interpreted as just about anything. But to see a big fairy tale come from about 20 words? WoWWWWW
> 
> I used to believe in that stuff very much until I realized that nobody had ever heard of any rapture or tribulation before the year 1820 when a woman in Massachusetts invented it. Research it and stop being so credulous as you are.
> 
> The Bible is right in saying that people will stray away from the true gospel. You are proving that right now with your self righteousness, idiocy and complete arrogance.


 :? Hmmm.....Ever heard of Nostradaumus? He has been teaching on the end days since the 1500's It wasnt something some lady made up. :wink:

His teaching or prophecies of the end days are some of the most vivid, and violent I've ever heard and read... He was a serious Catholic, taught the old way.

The Book of Revelation or The Apocalypse of John, from Greek ποκάλυψις πο or apo- ["away from"] and κάλυψις or kaluptein ["cover"]?meaning literally "to pull the cover away from") is the last canonical book of the New Testament in the Bible. It is the only biblical book that is wholly composed of apocalyptic literature. The book is frequently called by the incorrect name Revelations. However, the actual title of the book is The Revelation of Jesus Christ ... unto his servant John, as it is rendered in the first verse.[1]

After a short introduction (ch. 1:1?10) it contains an account of the author, who identifies himself as John, of two visions that he received on the isle of Patmos. The first vision (chs. 1:11?3:22), related by "one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle", speaking with "a great voice, as of a trumpet", are statements addressed to the seven churches of Asia. The second vision comprises the rest of the book (chs. 4?22) begins with "a door ? opened in heaven" and describes the end of the world?involving the final rebellion by Satan at Armageddon, God's final defeat of Satan, and the restoration of peace to the world.

While it is considered a period of immense suffering and sacrifice, greater than anything before in history, believers are promised strong faith and powers to help them endure and prevail. Persecution is attributed to the believers rebelling against the Antichrist and his regime.

The Tribulation is generally thought to occur before the Second Coming of Jesus and the end of the world. Some Christians believe that it will last seven years in all, usually divided into two periods of 3.5 years each. Others believe it is for only a 3.5-year period. The time period for these beliefs is based on the phrases found several places in the book of Daniel, "time, times, and half a time," interpreted as "a year, two years, and half a year," and the book of Revelation, "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" and "forty and two months" (the prophetic month averaging 30 days, hence 1260/30 = 42 months or 3.5 years).

Hmmmm....I can go on and on, but I know what I'm saying, I agree that the book of revelations is vague, but it's pretty easy to understand when you have studied the whole bible...

Personally myself, I have not studied the whole bible, but for the mean time I sit underneath people that have that know the Greek language, and can give a clear understanding of why they interpret or preach the way they do...

A lot of times when I type my examples and ranting are mistaken for fact somehow, but really they are just my theorys, I dont know if people are going to starve or what, but I do know that something bad is going to happen....

And to take it a step further, not all believers will be saved from the tribulation and not all non believers will be left behind either.... But for the most I dont want to take my chances so I choose to believe and maybe I'll have a better chance of winning brownie points with God.

Judgements
Here is a list of judgements mentioned in the book of Revelation, some of which (usually attributed to the seven trumpets) occur during the Tribulation period:

Seven Seal Judgements
The White Horse of the Apocalypse comes promising false peace (This represents the Antichrist's rise to power through diplomacy). 
The Red Horse comes in the form of World War causing bloodshed. (The Antichrist's true colors are revealed, as he triggers WWIII while at the same time promising peace). 
The Black Horse comes in the form of famine resulting from war 
The Pale Horse comes in the form of pestilence and death. 
Martyrs begin dying during the Tribulation (The Antichrist begins his persecution of believers). 
Worldwide earthquake followed by the darkening of the sun and moon, and a colossal meteor shower. 
Silence in Heaven, followed by fire being hurled to the Earth. 
(Note: The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, are symbols for the first four seal judgements. They represent events as seen in a vision by the apostle John. They are allegorical, so no horsemen will be seen galloping during the tribulation, but their effects will nevertheless be very real.)

Seven Trumpet Judgements
Hail, fire, blood upon the earth burn one-third of the earth, trees, and grass (This is a plague similar to the hailstorm described in the book of Exodus, with the exception of the blood. Though the Bible says that this judgement will affect only 1/3 of the world's vegetation and does not mention human casualties, there are those who believe the blood will come as a result of massive injuries to humans and animals. Most Christians however, believe that it will be supernatural, as most of the trumpet judgments are.) 
A burning mountain plummets into the sea (This could refer to an asteroid striking the earth, causing widespread death and destruction. It is believed that it will be a localized, non-extinction-level event. Though most believe in an ocean strike causing a great tsunami that sweeps over entire cities, many scholars argue that the sea referred to here is actually the Mediterranean Sea. Thus the event would mostly affect those nations surrounding this body of water.) 
A star called Wormwood falls onto the Earth poisoning the freshwater sources such as streams and rivers (This is believed to be a comet that falls but desintegrates before striking; the remains of which fall on the rivers and lakes, thus poisoning the waters. Thousands will die from drinking it. It is believed and accepted that believers will be spared this judgment.) 
Sun, stars and moon are darkened by one-third (This darkening will cause temporary winterlike conditions in the world, as well as a massive shortage of energy ? sort of a short ice age, or some believe a nuclear winter. The Bible clearly shows this event to be temporary, as the sun must later burn with the force of fire.) 
Plague of indestructible locusts ravage the wicked forces of the Antichrist, inflicting endless pain. Many will try to kill themselves from the pain, but "death will flee from them" (These are most likely demonic locusts. This is clearly a supernatural event that will affect the non-believers only. There is mention that believers will be sealed by God first, and the locusts will not attack them upon seeing God's seal on them.) 
Over 200 million horsemen kill one-third of wicked left on Earth with massive strikes, fire, and smoke (Much speculation exists regarding the nature of this plague, as the author sees this in a vision. It is mostly accepted that these are also demonic beings sent to destroy the most rebellious of the unbelievers. Others believe it could be a massive military force.) 
Lightning, hailstorm, and earthquakes 
(Note: Although the trumpet judgements will most likely be explained away by the Antichrist as just coincidental events, these will be clearly supernatural in nature, and no scientist will be able to explain them. It is noteworthy that believers will be spared every one of these judgements. Between God's judgements on the wicked and His divine protection of His followers, and the rest of the world will have a chance to take sides. When studying the book of Revelation, if the author says it saw this in a vision or when there are descriptive terms such as "like a" and "as a", then the event described could have more than one interpretation. However, as it is with the hailstorm, when the author says things like: "There was a hailstorm" or "There was an earthquake", then the passage should be taken literally for what it describes.)

Seven Bowl Judgements
Painful sores (possibly boils or carbuncles on the worshippers of the Beast (These sores only affect those bearing the mark of the beast, who worship his image.) 
Sea turns to blood 
Rivers turn to blood 
Sun burns with intense heat and scorches people (This is an intense heat plague, that it is believed will also affect mostly those with the mark.) 
Antichrist's kingdom is plunged into darkness (It is not clear if it means all the earth, or only the Antichrist's capital. New Babylon, the city many believe will be this capital, is a likely place, but cities such as Rome and Jerusalem have also been proposed. This is a darkness reminiscent to the one described in the book of Exodus. It is so thick and deep that it causes literal pain. People writhe and gnash their teeth from the pain which is worsened by the sores that they still have from the first plague.) 
Euphrates River dries up and is prepared for battle from the armies from the east (To clarify, the river dries up to facilitate the crossing of the armies from the east, on their way to Israel for the battle of Armageddon.) 
Worldwide earthquake leveling every mountain into the sea followed by huge hailstones and lightning. (This could also be simultaneous earthquakes of great magnitude throughout the world. The earth's geography and topography will be altered forever, as every mountain and hill will be leveled, and every island will either move or disappear. The earthquakes are accompanied by huge 50-lb hailstones.) 
(Note: Some believe that the seal and trumpet judgments will occur during the first half of the tribulation. The bowl judgments will occur during the second half, as the first one refers to those with the mark of the beast. The mark will not be implemented until the Antichrist dies and resurrects, and then defiles the Temple; and this will happen at precisely the mid-point of the tribulation. Thus, the bowl judgments will be more severe, and will last longer than any of the previous ones.

(Others argue that the seals generally cover man's history from after the first coming of Christ up to the End time (although several seem to go well into this period), with the trumpet judgements generally covering the Tribulation, and the most severe judgements ? the Bowls reserved for the Wrath of God period ? preceding the Millennium.)

Anyway....There are many views on this and some people take my words out of context. My words, must hit people in a sensitive part because they get all offensive when I speak or type because its different then what they were taught so....

That's why I say believe what you believe and let me do my thing, you dont have to agree, in fact I dont expect you to. I just let people know what I know and move on like I said before, because when it comes down to it I'm worrying about me and not anyone else, the Gospel is offensive, it is radical, its all that stuff.


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## MrMortgage

Also! Dont forget the title of this topic... "Put an end all comment to religion"

It doesnt say Mr Mortgage's comment, it says "PUT AN END ALL COMMENT" so lets hear everyone elses.


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## peacedove

MrMortgage said:


> peacedove said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Buddha was a man. He isn't "coming back".
> 
> 
> 
> lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I wasnt being serious when I said Buddah is coming back, I just used it as an example, to throw away all religion if we find out at the "end" or when the space aliens come back and tell us that they made up all the religions!
> 
> And as for someone early being angry about God sending everyone to hell...well that just shows how much that person knows about the bible and how much the rest of the world knows about Christianity. And how much the majority of the churches out there got it all wrong now! The bible never changed, only the followers did. The bible even says that in the last days the church will stray so far from the true gospel that the spirit of Elijah will have to come and put things in order again!
> 
> The bible says that all belivers in Christ will not have to go through the tribulation, the people left behind will have the choice of having one more chance to come to Chirst but they will have to suffer during the tribulation and not give into the anit-christ!
> 
> This might mean starving to death and watching youre family starve to death as well. Who knows....
> 
> That's kinda a quick summary of it all, but if people dont like it then dont worry about it, dont even give it another thought, but dont say I didnt tell you so if it does happen, and if it doesnt happen, well I guess I was wrong, oh well life goes on but if I'm right, too bad for you....
Click to expand...

Damn I wasn't laughing at you.


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## worldwideput

crocodile, I see you're from Utah. I almost fell in love with a girl I met on the internet who was from Ogden when I was 19. Love at first IM. That eventually ended though. I see you like the clash. If you know about London Calling and the Green Album you kick ass.


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## peacedove

awww you have an admirer littlecrocodile


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## Guest

I think he has crocodile mistaken for agentcooper..


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## Guest

I am from Utah, and that was me you fell in love with, but now I am one of Pure Narcotic's 12 underaged wives.


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## agentcooper

worldwideput said:


> crocodile, I see you're from Utah. I almost fell in love with a girl I met on the internet who was from Ogden when I was 19. Love at first IM. That eventually ended though. I see you like the clash. If you know about London Calling and the Green Album you kick ass.


i think you're talking about me...i live in utah and i love london calling!

though, lil'crocodile is great as well :wink:


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