# Look back to the past..



## anti-anti depressants (Jul 22, 2005)

Does anyone else feel like this?

Think about this. I've tried looking back to think how I was feeling when I did'nt have a problem with depersonalization. Question how you feel now, to how you felt back then. Did you have the same things on your mind now as you did then. Worries, obsessive thoughts, problems. Someone pointed this out to me, and looking back, when my life was all rosy, I never had this problem. Makes you think!


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Life never really _was_ all rosy. You know that, of course, but it makes you feel better to think there was a time when all was "rosy." That's simply not true, and you know it.

Our life has always been like a finely woven garment having threads of all possible human colors (emotions) that form patterns and images.

As the weavers of our garments, we can choose which colors we weave with, can we not? Some are thrust upon us, this is true, but the others are strictly our own choice, right?

You have the same threads in your life today that you have always had. You are the weaver who chooses to neglect weaving with the beautiful hues you used to use. So what's up with _that_? Who is left to _blame_ -- not that blame is appropriate in the least -- but the weaver?

We are the weavers, are we not?

Well, then, who is in charge of the colors we see in the garment that is our life? And what stops the weaver from introducing a brand new color of beauty into the garment? Anything stopping the weaver from doing that?


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I only have black and gray to weave with. Sojurner can you lend me one of your beautiful hues? I seemed to have lost mine.


----------



## jake (Jul 12, 2005)

Dear anti-antidepressants:
I just took from your post as I try to do from others who are searching and thinking outloud for answers. I know the phrase "all rosy" is an exaggeration in MY case regarding the past and times I was not mired in anxiety. But I DO know what you mean regarding the fact there have been times I didn't feel this bad. I think anybody's search is valid.
---------------
Sojourner, I can't believe you would tell somebody that they "know that" when offering your opinion. Maybe they DO NOT KNOW THAT. You know?


----------



## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

jake said:


> Sojourner, I can't believe you would tell somebody that they "know that" when offering your opinion. Maybe they DO NOT KNOW THAT. You know?


Not attacking you Sojourner, but I have to agree. at the beginning of my DP I was in complete denial that I ever had any issues. I totally beleived that life was just peachy and great before that one panic attack. It took me a while to get the courage to face facts. but that was just me, and there's no reason to assume that anti-ad's is in denial.

anti-ad's, there are some people on here who say life was totally rosy before. maybe recovery for you would be faster, since you don't have so many issues that you need to work on, like the rest of us 8)

-rula


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Sigh. Busted again for technique.  I should have realized that anti-anti is very young, and I spoke to her/him as if she was an adult for a long time and I see that doing that was a major mistake. I was wrong, and I'm sorry, anti_anti. And if I'm wrong about saying this, then I'm sorry about this, too.

Sorry, y'all. I didn't mean to imply that anti_anti was in denial or anything, but just wanted to point out that nothing in this life is ever just one thing -- and certainly not "rosy."

LostOne -- Here's a lovely shade of blue ----  -- do you like it? (I don't think I should be giving you anything in the red family. )

Jake, it pains me to have angered you. :? But I know you...you'll forgive me. Thanks.

Rula, thanks for your insight, again. 8)

Anti-anti -- You are always growing and changing, and nothing will ever be static for you.

The initial point I meant to stay on was the weaving thing. Anti-anti -- grab that lovely shade of rose and weave your garment using it liberally. That's our role in all this, isn't it?


----------



## Guest (Aug 4, 2005)

Hey I sometimes think we really over read into what Sojourner says. I truly believe that she is trying to be helpful and insightful. I myself have been guilty of this on a couple of occasions. This is however a place to offer our advice and sometimes what we have to say people (including myself) don't want to hear or take offense to. I don't know I just felt like putting my two cents in. Sojourner, maybe you should have a signature line that reads sorry in advance for offending you LOL, LOL, LOL. That will save you some time. Take it easy on each other guys we are all basically here for the same reason. 
Kate


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Whereami your right. I havent read one post by Sojurner that seemed like she was trying to offened anyone.

Sojurner is Sojurner. I like your personality Sojurner, you have a lot of character.

By the way thanks for the blue, it is beautiful  !


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Sojourner I love your technique. Why do you sigh?
If you don't want your technique anymore, can I have it.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

WhereamI -- Thanks! I like your idea for a sig very much and I just might use it soon. :wink:

Lostone: No, honey-bun. As much as I am fond of you, I cannot do that. Besides, you don't seem to need much help in that department!


----------



## jake (Jul 12, 2005)

You guys are crackin me up here! Hey Sojourner, I didn't want to hurt you. And it seems I took more offense than the original poster, so color me codependent! I'm new here relatively speaking and I guess sometimes people can say things to others whom they know better and it's taken in the spirit they both understand. Also I concede that if I am saying all searches for answers are valid, I must also say all people are too. If every body's style was the same at giving opinion it would be very boring. There have been many times that your cut-to-the chase style has helped me Soj, b/cuz I also understood your intent. This one just startled me. All is forgiven, since there's nothing to forgive. Agghhhh shut up now jake!!


----------



## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

I think Sojourner really needs to have some kind of disclaimer at the beginning of his/her posts. It would stop all these silly arguments.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Interesting concept. Forced me to think a bit more about it. Thanks.


----------



## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

Only joking on the disclaimer point.

In a bizarre way I've actually started to quite like Sojourner. I'm not even joking, either. This is an interesting turn of events.


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm not joking about the disclaimer. Here, Sojourner, borrow my patented DISCLAIM'ATRON 2000(tm), that automatically adds a disclaimer to the end of every post. I invented this contraption after REV's refusal to add a disclaimer button a while back, when virtually everything I said caused uproar. I've taken pills since then, so hopefully I've calmed down a lot.

Sojourner, I've no doubt at all that your intentions are well meaning and sincere, none at all, I just think that sometimes your opinions can come across as generalisations (which can of course be hurtful), and they are not always responding to the point of the post, and statement of facts. As this is an impersonal Internet forum, it wouldn't go amiss to uses a 'perhaps' or 'maybe' or 'I think' before some of your prophesizing. But you've certainly lived up the site a little. And remember, god/s have no place on this forum!! 



> Life never really was all rosy


I don't agree with this though. I'm getting a little tired at the endless prattle (not just Sojourner) that we are all born to the fate of a life of misery. I don't agree with that at all, and it smacks of the squalid human condition and the need for redemption. It ignores personal responsibility and the fact that we _all_ have the capacity to lead a happy, guilt free life. It also shows the person thinks that his own turgid experiences of life are applied to all. The majority of the world lives in mildly ingorant bliss, with, of course, minor irritations and tragedies...but that's life. And we have to make the most of it...and strive to make it better for ourselves and people who we care for. That is the _purpose_ of life, not eighty-odd years of struggling through the disappointment and rain of this life, waiting for an after-life of an eternity of bliss. If there isn't a heaven, and we've got it wrong, then what a waste of life.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Martin,

You somehow missed the fifth word in:

Life never really was all rosy.

---------

And God belongs anywhere people want to bring him!


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Yes that's true, but just because life isn't an endless stream of bliss doesn't mean that we are doomed to an eternity of misery. I just get the impression that you think happyness is a wafer thin veil covering the bottomless gulf of misery beneath. I don't agree with that.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

> Yes that's true, but just because life isn't an endless stream of bliss doesn't mean that we are doomed to an eternity of misery. I just get the impression that you think happyness is a wafer thin veil covering the bottomless gulf of misery beneath. I don't agree with that.


I do not believe that at all, Martin, and I regret that I have given you that impression and rather mystified about how it happened. 

Monkeydust -- Thank you for your comments!


----------



## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

I don't think the generalization was about life so much. *I think*, maybe, (hehe) that Sajourner was making a generalization about people with DP, based on the popular 'dp is a defense mechanism' theory. so if one has DP, it's not possible that their life could've been all rosy before??

I'm rather mystified myself as how you could so confidently say "i know and you KNOW" life wasn't so great...unless I'm missing some really long post from anti-ad's with lots of details, in that case i'll go feel stupid now. :lol:


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Yes that's true, but just because life isn't an endless stream of bliss doesn't mean that we are doomed to an eternity of misery. I just get the impression that you think happyness is a wafer thin veil covering the bottomless gulf of misery beneath. I don't agree with that


All I remember Sojourner saying was that life was not all that rosy before dp/dr. And I don't believe that life is completely rosy for anyone.

When I look back at my life, before the time with dp/dr I feel like life was much, much, better back than. Life was much more rosy before I got dp/dr. I was one of the most popular stoners around. After I got dp/dr, I just became a complete loser. Life was more rosy in the past, but it was never all rosy and I don't think anyone can say there life is completely problem free.

Martinelv the veil is the misery not the happiness. I bet Sojourner knows this already. She don't seem to need advice.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

rula said:


> I don't think the generalization was about life so much. *I think*, maybe, (hehe) that Sajourner was making a generalization about people with DP, based on the popular 'dp is a defense mechanism' theory. so if one has DP, it's not possible that their life could've been all rosy before??


Yes.



rula said:


> I'm rather mystified myself as how you could so confidently say "i know and you KNOW" life wasn't so great...unless I'm missing some really long post from anti-ad's with lots of details, in that case i'll go feel stupid now. :lol:


It was a generalization based on the idea that life itself cannot be rosy. Life always has ups and downs and people have highs and lows. For someone to say that she or he never ever felt low in the past just seems to be inaccurate. Perhaps if things are "normal," we forget the sad things and when we look back, it all seems rosy, but in fact, it is not.

However, if the anti_anti was comparing today with a time in which he or she was truly innocent of the pain of others in the world and didn't happen to experience anything but love and joy and camaraderie and roses, then perhaps my generalization doesn't fit her or his actual life.

I just have trouble believing that anyone could recall the past as being perfect. But perhaps it was *I* who read too much into that statement and the poster was just talking in general. Maybe this is a "mountain/molehill" moment, after all?


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Hey, LostOne, you need to change your name, because it is nothing like the YOU I see!!


----------



## Mipmunk (Oct 28, 2004)

when I don't have DP, my life is very rosy, I feel fabulous, I know that February, March and April this year, life was great/rosy. Then my cat got ill, went missing and died, "CLICK" then went the trigger into DP. And 3 months later the DP hasn't gone yet.... I don't know why it is still hanging around, it doesn't seem to want to go this time..........

Mipmunk
x


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Hey, LostOne, you need to change your name, because it is nothing like the YOU I see!!


You blew my cover :shock: !

Thanks anyway  .
I think I will keep the name. I am lost in this world, I'm not sure if it's my fault or the worlds fault, but I am surely LOST :? :shock:  !

The funny thing is that the only things I don't feel lost about, 
everyone else does feel lost about :? .


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

> The funny thing is that the only things I don't feel lost about,
> everyone else does feel lost about .


Ya' wanna run that by me one more time?


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Hows this.

The funny thing is that what everyone else feels lost about,
I don't feel lost about at all.

Example, God, meaning of Life, whatever people consider to be difficult subjects, ya know.

Just pick up on the vibes Sojourner. I will send the meaning of this rant vie ESP.


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> it is nothing like the YOU I see!!


I am wondering, just how is it YOU see ME Sojourner :shock: .


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

I see you differently than you describe yourself. I see you as a sensitive person with a good head on his shoulders. You're a guy, right? I've been wondering about your religious belief, principally because of your tagline. And now the comment you just made has me wondering, too.

Ah, just saw your profile -- into physics, are we? :lol:


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I think I made a mistake, and brought up my religion before in the spirituality section. I don't post there anymore.

I am not baptized yet but I have been studying with Jehovah's Witnesses for 8 yrs. My studys havent been consistent, but I don't doubt the truth behind what the Witnesses say. I want to get baptized as fast as possible but I can bearly take care of myself at the moment. I kind of feel like a burden to the religion because of my illness.

Yes I am a guy  .
My real name is Steve.

Physics is just interesting to me, I am not a professor. 
Physics just seems to fit in with dp/dr perfictly.
I realy think that if everyone would look deep into physics they would understand a little more about just why this universe NEEDS A CREATOR TO EXIST.

STATEMENT: 
I will not argue the point about this universe needing a creator.

If anyone wants to know what the Witnesses believe goto there website. 
Don't listen to gossip people. http://watchtower.org/

Sojourner thank you for your comment. 
When I picked the name Lost one I was thinking about daily activitys or conversation. When I am doing daily activitys I often feel very lost but when I stop and think about things I feel as if I am the only one that truely understands what is going on.
I don't know if this makes sense to you but this is how I Feel.


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I see you as a sensitive person with a good head on his shoulders.


This I got simply from studying the bible. I thank Jehovah for any sensitivity or any wisdom I might have.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

OK -- thanks.


----------



## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

LOSTONE said:


> I realy think that if everyone would look deep into physics they would understand a little more about just why this universe NEEDS A CREATOR TO EXIST.
> 
> STATEMENT:
> I will not argue the point about this universe needing a creator.


I can't help it...I'm not going to argue religion either. but, food for thought Lostone, I'm sure you're familiar with Einstein's work. I think he knew a thing or two about physics, and he was an atheist. Whatever conclusive evidence you think you have, it apparently wasn't good enough for Einstein. There's no such thing as scientific proof of the existence of a creator.

-rula


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

rula all I can say is that Einstein is old news. You might as well just bring up Issac newton also, his news is even older.



> I realy think that if everyone would look deep into physics they would understand a little more about just why this universe NEEDS A CREATOR TO EXIST.
> 
> STATEMENT:
> I will not argue the point about this universe needing a creator.


This is my opinion. If Einstein never prayed to God that is his problem not mine.

There have been studies done on the beliefs of scientest. I think you would find the results to these studies very interesting. 
I would do the resurch for you but I get the feeling that you just want to argue a point, I don't feel as if you realy want to learn anything.
If you were my official bible study I would spend hours doing resurch and getting the facts for you, but untill you show that you are meek I am not wasting time on you. Like I said on another board, if anyone wants to talk religion just send me a PM. If you are eager to learn, I will try to teach. If you are a Witness and you have advice, than I am all full of meekness.

I don't want to continue conversations about religion that can not and will not ever end. Like I said, I will teach or learn religion vie PM only.


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

ROMANS 1:20

For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.

Now this is Gods opinion not mine. Note the word (inexcusable).


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

PS. Rula, makeing the statement that Einstein was an atheist was a little much don't you think? Einstein never made that simple of a statement.

He did say this about God however.



> Einstein once responded, "I
> believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony in
> what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions
> of human beings."





> He wrote an article for the _New York Times_
> expounding his religious beliefs (reprinted in _Ideas and Opinions_).
> He spoke of himself as having a "cosmic religious sense," which knows
> "no dogmas and no God made in man's image," which he said was shared
> ...


His religious views were much more complicated that simply stateing he was an atheist.

Spinoza was a Dutch Pilosopher, if your wondering.


----------



## Guest (Aug 6, 2005)

anti-anti, i know exactly what you mean. the things that go through are head are completely different than when [or if] we were once happy.


----------



## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

LOSTONE said:


> PS. Rula, makeing the statement that Einstein was an atheist was a little much don't you think? Einstein never made that simple of a statement.


Lostone, I didn't respond earlier because apparently you saw my challenging your logic as starting an argument. Rest assured that I neither want to teach you nor learn from you when it comes to religion. This is a DP/DR board, I come here to read about only that. You say you want to keep religious stuff over PM's, but then you go on quoting your God, and still continue the argument. fine 

You discredited Einstein earlier on account of him being "old news", which I found to be a brilliant argument cuz now I can simply discredit Jesus for being "really really old news." Why go back and research Einstein's religious believes? guess you knew you couldn't discredit him that easy.

Yes making the statement that he was an atheist was an over simplification, he was closer to an agnostic. but it's quite irrelevant, cuz either way his knowledge in physics (which far surpasses yours and mine despite it being, according to you, incredibly old and obsolete) never lead him to think creationism was a *necessary* conclusion. that's not to say that it's not a _possibility_, just not a conclusion.



> The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.


 -E

-rula


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> You say you want to keep religious stuff over PM's, but then you go on quoting your God, and still continue the argument. fine


Good point rula, I admit that I did continue the argument after I said I did not want to discuss it futher.



> You discredited Einstein earlier on account of him being "old news", which I found to be a brilliant argument cuz now I can simply discredit Jesus for being "really really old news." Why go back and research Einstein's religious believes? guess you knew you couldn't discredit him that easy.


LOL This makes me laugh. My comment that Einstein was old news was pretty poor I guess. I would explane why I said that but I don't think there is any need. I admit it was a bad statement.



> Yes making the statement that he was an atheist was an over simplification,


Thanks for admitting this rula.



> he was closer to an agnostic.


I am still confused :? .

Well I think your right rula this is not the right place to talk religion.
And I promise I will not do it anymore.



> I didn't respond earlier because apparently you saw my challenging your logic as starting an argument.


I didn't really think of it as an argument, just a pointless dialogue.

Oh and rula I LOVE you also. Just in case you felt left out  .
I hope we can be friends  .


----------



## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

LOSTONE said:


> Oh and rula I LOVE you also. Just in case you felt left out  .
> I hope we can be friends  .


now i'm confused. am i missing a looove thread somewhere? :wink: 
yea, i love you too steve, you just made me spend an hour reading about Jehova's Witnesses. learned something new 8)


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> am i missing a looove thread somewhere?


No, not a love thread, it was xepers book of hate. I don't know if you read it?

I was thinking of posting a book of love, but then I realized that most people are more interested in proclaiming there hates rather than there loves. I figured that my book of love would get no replys, so I never posted it. I personaly hate many things, but I feel it more therapeutic to find the things that can be loved than to dwell on the many things I hate.



> you just made me spend an hour reading about Jehova's Witnesses.


  You made my day rula. Most people woulden't wast there time bothering with an open minded view of the world. Even though you say you don't believe in God per say, you still spent an hour reading about him. This tells me a lot of good things about you.

I was starting to think that I had failed God once again  .
Knowing that I got you to goto the Witnesses web page has made me very happy indeed  .

Thanks rula!


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Even though you say you don't believe in God per say, you still spent an hour reading about him. This tells me a lot of good things about you.


The religious just can't help themselves, can they. Sigh. :roll: If only us poor deluded atheists had such stunning insight. Still, best be a cynic like me. When I smell flowers I look around for the funeral.

Creationism is the most pathetic attempt to merge the obvious inevitability of evolution, geology, physics, in fact almost the entire realm of science with the number one book of the ages, written by committee - the bible. If it didn't cloud the judgement of millions of children all over the world, it would be funny. It's something comparable to childhood neurosis. Still, it's excellent stuff for keeping the ignorant quiet.

What does make me laugh, however, is the total reliance of the religous on scripture. Those most holy of texts that distinguish the 'saved' from the profane writings on which all other faiths are based. :lol:


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> The religious just can't help themselves, can they. Sigh.


Yes it is hard to contain myself sometimes.

Imagin believing you had knowledge that could save peoples lives.
And not just this life but an everlasting life on paradise earth.
You probably wouldent be able to contain yourself either.
Actually I find atheist not being able to contain themselfs all the time.
What do atheist offer? What is there purpose for speaking? I am just wondering. Are atheist so happy to have found death that they want to spread it to the world. If I was an atheist I would keep my comments to myself. Remember most religious people believe their knowledge will save others. If my truth was death than I would kill myself.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

> What does make me laugh, however, is the total reliance of the religous on scripture.


As a matter of fact, your above statement is false. The Catholic Church relies on Scripture and Tradition. It also doesn't presume to know HOW God created what He created.


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Yes it is hard to contain myself sometimes.


I don't doubt it.



> Imagin believing you had knowledge that could save peoples lives.


You have this knowledge? What extraordinary news. Care to share? I believe there are several million in Niger and The Sudan who are in need of your knowledge. I look forward to seeing the results on CNN.



> And not just this life but an everlasting life on paradise earth.


Paradise earth ? What? And who's paradise? Yours? I need clarification as there are so many contradictory faiths I can never be sure which one people are talking about.



> You probably wouldent be able to contain yourself either.


If I had you incredible powers, then yes, I wouldn't be able to contain myself either. But unfortunately I'd expect I'd waste a little of my powers in a Bruce-Almighty manner. I've always wanted to be invisible. Can you do that?



> Actually I find atheist not being able to contain themselfs all the time.


Examples please. And since you are all knowing and all powerful, I assume you're not going to say that all atheists cannot contain their urges to kill, maim, and fiddle with children. That's just ignorant misconception, isn't it.



> What do atheist offer?


An atheist is someone who lacks belief in various imaginary friends, that's all. I would have thought you knew that, Superman. They have as much and as little to offer the world as everyone else. They are human beings who cherish 'this life', and their unbelief itself gives purpose to their and other peoples lives.



> What is there purpose for speaking?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Well, I've no idea. Perhaps we should just sit in corner and quietly rot away.



> Are atheist so happy to have found death that they want to spread it to the world


Oh dear. You're not superman after all. You've betrayed the usual stunning ignorance of the religious. It doesn't even dignify a response. 'Found Death'. Dear lord, when will this stupidity end?



> If I was an atheist I would keep my comments to myself


Yes, I bet you'd love that. Nobody to criticise your beliefs. Nobody to point out the terrible hypocrisy, bigotry, discrimination, and church sponsored poverty that has been going on for thousands of years, and continues to do so. So tough titty's mate. Religion is a dying superstition, accept it, and maybe you'll find that a life without 'faith' (whichever one you are brainwashed into believing in) is a life with purpose, a life where we treat everyone as equals, and do not discriminate beyond our own unfortunate human prejudices.....

Sojourner,



> The Catholic Church relies on Scripture and Tradition. It also doesn't presume to know HOW God created what He created.


Well, that's a bit crap isn't it. It's like reading a manual on how to fix a car and then trying to build a helicopter. No wonder you're all so confused. And I wouldn't be so quick to promote Catholic tradition...dear lord no. Catholic tradition has a worse record than the holocaust, as horrific as that was. And I don't remember the nazi's molesting children either or promoting overpopulation and poverty of the world through threat of eternal damnation. If I were catholic I'd be too ashamed to show my face in public.

I'm probably going to be slammed for comparing Catholic tradition with the Nazi's, but I don't care. They are both evil festering sores on the face of humanity and people should realise this, that the trade-off for a little personal comfort and a nice place to go on a Sunday, MILLIONS are dying because of it's insane doctrine.

The day people have the courage to shed their comfort blankets, taking responsibility for their actions and embracing life for what it is, will be a great day for humanity. I'll wager that you'd be surprised that a world without religion wouldn't descend into immoral carnage - rather people would find purpose in their lives for life itself, and treat _everyone_ in the same manner, without having to resort to the ridiculous and frankly obscene 'teachings' of dead and dying religions. Without wanting (without _desperatly _wanting) to sound like a prophet myself, that day is coming, and I for one can't wait. I doubt that it'll happen in my lifetime, but the slowly creeping realisation of the absurdity of religion and the harm that it causes, which greatly outweighs any benefit, has already started. Ignorance is no longer a defence. Face facts. Live life.


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Martinelv your funny :lol: .
You are also very good at arguing a point. Seriously I like your talents.



> Yes, I bet you'd love that. Nobody to criticise your beliefs. Nobody to point out the terrible hypocrisy, bigotry, discrimination, and church sponsored poverty that has been going on for thousands of years, and continues to do so. So tough titty's mate. Religion is a dying superstition, accept it, and maybe you'll find that a life without 'faith' (whichever one you are brainwashed into believing in) is a life with purpose, a life where we treat everyone as equals, and do not discriminate beyond our own unfortunate human prejudices.....


Actually I don't mind when people criticise my beliefs because I always look into things and criticise my own beliefs anyway. What I don't understand is why you would want to crush a good thought.

[/quote] Well, I've no idea. Perhaps we should just sit in corner and quietly rot away.[/quote]

That is what most people are doing. Most people think way to much of themselfs.



> Paradise earth ? What? And who's paradise? Yours? I need clarification as there are so many contradictory faiths I can never be sure which one people are talking about.


If you are going to ask questions like this I am going to have to answer.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm
That paradise.



> Examples please. And since you are all knowing and all powerful, I assume you're not going to say that all atheists cannot contain their urges to kill, maim, and fiddle with children. That's just ignorant misconception, isn't it.


You are the example yourself. You are haveing just as many problems containing yourself as I am. It is only our viewpoint that is diffrent.
And just for further refrence, my religion does not believe in fighting in wars.

I am not all knowing or all powerful, I try to be humble, passive and meek.
Jehovah God is whom I declare to be all knowing and all powerful.
But even Gods powers are limited to the relms of reality.

Martinelv thank you for pointing out that I am not superman I have been wondering why I am unable to fly.


----------



## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> The day people have the courage to shed their comfort blankets, taking responsibility for their actions and embracing life for what it is, will be a great day for humanity. I'll wager that you'd be surprised that a world without religion wouldn't descend into immoral carnage - rather people would find purpose in their lives for life itself, and treat everyone in the same manner, without having to resort to the ridiculous and frankly obscene 'teachings' of dead and dying religions. Without wanting (without desperatly wanting) to sound like a prophet myself, that day is coming, and I for one can't wait. I doubt that it'll happen in my lifetime, but the slowly creeping realisation of the absurdity of religion and the harm that it causes, which greatly outweighs any benefit, has already started. Ignorance is no longer a defence. Face facts. Live life.


You seem to be hopeing for an end to religion. 
You will be happy to know that the bible predicts this day will come.
God will actually be the one to put it into the hearts of men to do away with religions.
This is one of the signs for the end of this system of things.

I will send you a PM to explain.

I am waiting for this day myself because then I will be sure the end is at hand.

I'm not containing myself very good am I? 
I think I will just stop reading this thread completly.
Goodby.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

> Well, that's a bit crap isn't it. It's like reading a manual on how to fix a car and then trying to build a helicopter. No wonder you're all so confused. And I wouldn't be so quick to promote Catholic tradition...dear lord no. Catholic tradition has a worse record than the holocaust, as horrific as that was. And I don't remember the nazi's molesting children either or promoting overpopulation and poverty of the world through threat of eternal damnation. If I were catholic I'd be too ashamed to show my face in public.
> 
> I'm probably going to be slammed for comparing Catholic tradition with the Nazi's, but I don't care. They are both evil festering sores on the face of humanity and people should realise this, that the trade-off for a little personal comfort and a nice place to go on a Sunday, MILLIONS are dying because of it's insane doctrine.
> 
> The day people have the courage to shed their comfort blankets, taking responsibility for their actions and embracing life for what it is, will be a great day for humanity. I'll wager that you'd be surprised that a world without religion wouldn't descend into immoral carnage - rather people would find purpose in their lives for life itself, and treat everyone in the same manner, without having to resort to the ridiculous and frankly obscene 'teachings' of dead and dying religions. Without wanting (without desperatly wanting) to sound like a prophet myself, that day is coming, and I for one can't wait. I doubt that it'll happen in my lifetime, but the slowly creeping realisation of the absurdity of religion and the harm that it causes, which greatly outweighs any benefit, has already started. Ignorance is no longer a defence. Face facts. Live life.


Have you ever listened to yourself?

Your attempts to ridicule hurt only your own soul. Most people, even if they are not religious themselves, recognize the vileness you spew _as _evil. You demonstrate the existence of sin in the world by your loving embrace of sin's methods -- dishonesty and hatred. You lie about Christianity continually, you have no regard for the dignity of other human beings, and you are a frightened little boy flailing at those who believe in the goodness of creation, a Creator who loves everyone, and the desire of all humanity to rise above the evil that we all do.

And yes, God loves you, and so do I.

I wish you the peace that passes all understanding -- the peace that comes only from God. That peace is the only peace that can heal our suffering.

And He may touch you yet before He's done with you. It has happened before, so if I were you, I would watch out.

----

Oh, and should anyone ask whether the above is a "threat" -- the answer is yes, by all means. Or perhaps it is a prediction. Christ is known for dogging the steps of and forcing a _personal encounter _with human beings just like Martin--and not just those whose experiences are recorded in Scripture.

Yes, indeed, God may well meet our friend Martin one day where he least expects it.


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Have you ever listened to yourself?


Yes. Like yourself, I just love the sound of my own voice.



> Your attempts to ridicule hurt only your own soul


It's not an _attempt_ to ridicule, I *am* ridiculing. And what's this 'soul' you are talking about? I hear a lot of bluff and waffle, but nobody has really explained what they are talking about.



> Most people, even if they are not religious themselves, recognize the vileness you spew as evil


Do they? I welcome all comments on the vileness of my criticism of religion. One man's evil is another man's truth.



> You lie about Christianity continually


Give me an example. Just one.



> you have no regard for the dignity of other human beings,


Really? How can you presume to know that ? A nasty little trick, Sojourner, but I'm used to it. Humanists have more dignity in their little finger than the religious.



> and you are a frightened little boy flailing at those who believe in the goodness of creation


I'm frighted for a variety of different reasons. Leaukemia, for one, the love and safety of my family and friends for another, financial security, the sanity of some of the poor souls on this board, but certainly not your imaginary friend. :roll: Why should I be afraid of something / someone / it / them that don't exist?

Why do you keep barking on about god/s on this forum anyway? This is a forum for people with DP. Why don't you shuffle over to the Spirituality Forum to empart your wisdom to people who want to hear about it and we can argue until the cows come home. I for one and sick and tired of hearing your uninformed ravings about how your imaginary friend and DP and depression is somehow tangled together in a great big confusing mush.

I'm not denying that your intentions are good, and some of the advice you give regarding DP very well informed and helpfull, but give the religious crap a break, please? If you do, I will too. And no doubt that will be a tremendous relief to everyone.


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

I wish you nothing but good things, Martin.


----------



## jake (Jul 12, 2005)

Personally I would be relieved to stop reading threads that start about one thing and end up about God or no God. Start a new thread would be my suggestion--there HAS to be enough coming out of all this talk to create a new thread which won't lead unsuspecting readers down a long ass path of this stuff please!!
--jake


----------



## Guest (Aug 12, 2005)

Jake you read my mind friend. If they can seperate church and state don't you think we can seperate church and DP. You could argue your religious beliefs or lack there of forever and do nothing more than piss people off. We are here to support each through this not convert one another to their own personal beliefs.
Kate


----------



## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

I think maybe I am the one responsible for that happening on this thread. I forgot about the strict separation and asked Lostone a question...

Anyway, sorry about that. Won't happen again.


----------



## Guest (Aug 13, 2005)

Don't apologize for being who you are or believing so strongly. I was just trying to be funny. It seems like there are many subjects that are better left alone on this board. 
Kate


----------



## Da'Burgh (Apr 25, 2005)

Don't apologize.

Everyone needs to stop though. You're all annoying me with this thread. Believe what you want, I don't care. But do you really think this argument is going anywhere? There is no resolution.


----------

