# Neurofeedback



## Nicolen617 (Apr 1, 2017)

Hi everyone. Has anyone had any luck/ tried neurofeedback for their problem? I am looking into it, and would like to hear some experiences from you guys.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Hello,

I have not, but I have signed up and will start my treatments on Monday. The facility I am going to is considered to be an integrative medicine practice. When I go for my first session I am going to discuss my plans of sharing this information (anonymously) with the DP community. Throughout this process, I was going to summarize my sessions on this forum to provide information for anyone interested in this approach, but also to check the treatment I am getting against what others have had or read about.

Just a little backstory, I have had DP chronically for ~17 years (30 now) and I got it from panic attack after smoking weed. Up until lately I have been able to live with it without causing too much of a stir from family or friends, meaning acting like everything is fine. My symptoms fluctuate, but I am never repersonalized. My life has been pretty good even with the cloud of DP hanging over me. Ive done my best to accept it and move on, but lately, now in a professional stressful work environment I have been getting panic attacks (6-10 over last year) and have more constant anxiety about nothing really. It is not getting better.

My methods so far in trying to improve my symptoms include healthy eating, exercising, meditation heart rate variability training, depersonalizationrecovery.com writing practices with little to no effect. I will admit I have a hard time sticking to the DPrecovery exercises and somewhat meditation. Healthy eating and exercise are pretty easy for me now.

One of my biggest problems is my drinking, which I am not a raging alcoholic, but I do drink way more than I need to (I dont NEED any). This has obvious impacts to brain function and health (overall) and I will be stopping that also on Monday, COLD TURKEY. I guess I have never had the balls to cut myself off to check for improvement. My guess is that this alone will have great impact, but I assume neurofeedback mapping should be able to decipher between alcohol induced damage/repair versus DP/emotional trauma /detachment.

Posting my experience on this forum was part of my justification of paying the $6k for 40 sessions of neurofeedback, nutritional and physical assessment. If I end up flushing my money down the drain, hopefully this will save the money of others. If it works, I hope to provide an outline of what you should expect from your practitioner.

Let me know if you have any specific questions for me or my doctor that I can help you out with.

Josh


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

this is whats crap about dpsh. good threads get lost.

see here http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52424-neurofeedback/


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Looks like neurofeedback may have some good results. Thanks for sharing thy.

I have found some questionnaires or tests for depression assessment, but was wondering if anyone could suggest a way to do my own assessment of cognitive improvement?

What I picture in my head is something like concussion protocol in football. Take a baseline in the beginning, then monitor reaction times, accuracy of responses, etc.

Just curious, I always like metrics.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

This morning was my first session at the integrative medicine office. The doctor explains it has a mental, physical and biochemical approach, so he will be looking at my diet (food intake/tolerance), brainwave (neurofeedback), and physical health (posture, alignment, pain/injuries, etc.).

When I first walked in, it was a bunch of waivers and paperwork with legal jargon not promising results, and you get out what you put in, full participation, and a bunch of other stuff. Actually compared to other typical doctors offices the paper work was in fairly plain English.

Next my blood was drawn. A total of 4 vials were taken. The nurse could not remember everything off of the top of her head that was going to be checked, but I remember glucose, cholesterol and some hormones. My results will be back in a few days and I'll update with everything more specifically.

Next I paid for the complete 40 sessions, 3 tiered (mental physical and biochemical) treatment up front. This first hit me as strange since they did not have my baselines and I could not read on a itemized sheet exactly what I was going to be put through. They did offer a printout with brief general descriptions of typical treatment plans and were willing to talk and describe everything so I eventually accepted there may be intentionally some wiggle room left there for them. Also, other similar offices mentioned prepackaged pricing for neurofeedback plus the add ons.

Next I was taken into the room for my first brain scan. This was practically a swimmers cap with 19 sensors around it pulled down onto my head. A gel to improve contact was injected into a hole in each sensor onto my scalp, good luck if you have hair, luckily I shave my head. I was laid back in a recliner and they put a blanket on me, Im assuming to make me as comfortable as possible since it felt like a meat locker in the room. The first portion was with my eyes closed and I was told to be still and stay relaxed. It was my choice that I was not going to try and meditate or potentially improve results, I was just going to be to try and give the most accurate picture of my depersonalized operation/wiring.The technician told me that I was doing a good job, but I believe she just meant staying still and not fidgeting for ~ 7 minutes. There were some tones coming from the program, that I was told later on, was indicating when she needed to switch channels, since the 19 were divided up onto 5 channels. Next was ~7 minutes with my eyes open, where I was told to focus on some spot, letter or object on the wall as intently as possible and again to relax. This was a little harder as my ocular focus is a few seconds at best. Beyond that I feel like I am just staring in that general direction and go cross eyed, so my eyes bounce around frequently. Bouncing my point of focus around so much I feel like reflects my attention span as in the amount of time before another idea comes into my head, but figured this should be giving them a good map of short attention span and rapid fire activity, but I really have no idea.

After these two short sessions, the cap was pulled off and the gel wiped from my head. Again, not really sure how this is done with hair, but seems messy. Discussing the path forward with the technician they are going to use this initial brain scan to determine point of improvement, training program layout and see if anything else draws their attention which needs address. Once thing that I did not expect was the fact that I will not be wearing the full 19 sensor cap for my other sessions, just two or three sensors, fingers and ears I believe. In my head I guess some of my justification for the initial cost was being able to watch the color spectrum of brain output I assume comes from the 19 sensor swimming cap. From the 2 or 3 sensors I guess it will just be something similar to a pulse, but as long as there is improvement, visual entertainment is not the purpose.

On my way out of the office I was given a saliva test kit, which I believe is a more accurate portrayal of many items, but mainly hormones throughout the course of a day. Whereas blood is a single snapshot, and does not accurately reflect what the current state of the mind or body is because if it is in the blood it is just floating around and not actually being used (trying to recall doctors explanation). To complete the test I fill 4 tubes (~10 mL) half full of saliva within 30 minutes of waking up and going to sleep and 30 mins before lunch and dinner. Samples are supposed to be frozen until I come into the office next. My plan is to do the saliva testing tomorrow and my next appointment is on Thursday.

Similar to my first scan, I have decided throughout this process to not meditate or do heart rate variability training, outside of the doctors office anyways. I will continue to eat pretty healthy and exercise regularly as I just like doing that now. Today is my first day of 4 months without drinking.

I'm always open to hear some feedback.

I dont mean to hijack yoursubject Nicolen617, but the simple nuerofeedback title seemed the best place to start this posting.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Monday morning was my first session at the integrative medicine office. The doctor explains it has a mental, physical and biochemical approach, so he will be looking at my diet (food intake/tolerance), brainwave (neurofeedback), and physical health (posture, alignment, pain/injuries, etc.).

When I first walked in, it was a bunch of waivers and paperwork with legal jargon not promising results, and you get out what you put in, full participation, and a bunch of other stuff. Actually compared to other offices the paper work was in fairly plain English.

Next my vitals were taken and blood was drawn. A total of 4 vials were taken. The nurse could not remember everything off of the top of her head that was going to be checked, but I remember glucose, cholesterol and some hormones. My results will be back in a few days and I'll update with everything more specifically.

Next I paid for the complete 40 sessions, 3 tiered (mental physical and biochemical) treatment up front. This first hit me as strange since they did not have my baselines and I could not read on a itemized sheet exactly what I was going to be put through. They did offer a printout with brief general descriptions of typical treatment plans and were willing to talk and describe everything so I eventually accepted there may be intentionally some wiggle room left there for them. Also, other similar offices mentioned prepackaged pricing for neurofeedback plus the add ons.

Then I was taken into a room for the first brain scan. It was just a laptop setup for the technician and a recliner for me. They put a blanket on me because it felt like a meatlocker in the room with the AC and they wanted me to be relaxed. They put a fabric swimmers cap on me, which had 19 sensors around it. Each sensor had a hole in the center of it and a gel was injected into this, to increase conductivity or pickup I guess? Once the cap was on and gel injected, the technician asked me to close my eyes and relax for the first part of the scan which would take roughly 7 minutes. Even before the appointment, I decided to not try to meditate or purposely relax outside of just closing my eyes to try and give them the most accurate picture of DP/Anxious brain activity (also stopping all meditations and heart rate variability training outside of these visits). During this first part, I did hear the program making tone sounds every once in awhile and I guess this was an indicator for her to switch sensor channels (5 channels for the 19 sensors). For the second session I was told to continue to relax, but with eyes open and focusing on a single object or item on the wall. The same tones and channel switches were heard. Following the second session , the cap was removed, gel wiped off and we discussed the next sessions. Apparently this cap is only used for mapping and initial assessment and only 2 or 3 sensors (ears and finger?) are used for the actual training or therapy.

After the brain scan I was given a saliva test, which is used to get more specific readings on hormones than the blood tests. Trying to think back to what the doctor said, he mentioned that blood may not be the most accurate way to test for snapshot of body's hormones, which is why he prefers saliva. There were 4 tubes I needed to fill half up with saliva 30 mins after waking, 30 mins before lunch, 30 mins before dinner and 30 mins before bed with no eating or anything other than water in my mouth for 2 hrs before filling the tube. After each tube was filled I was supposed to freeze and keep cold as much as possible before bringing it in with me to the doctors office for them to send out.

This visit, I expected to get more into the diet aspect, but they said they do not have any of my baselines to design my detox or diet around. I just expected a general prescription diet for the beginning and then tailoring to your specific body in the end, because they are also not checking for any allergies at this time, but we will see I guess.

Yesterday, Tuesday, the office called and said that a patient knocked the neurofeedback machine off the table and they are ordering a new one, so I will not be able to do my first session in my Thursday appointment. For Thursday we are going to be focusing on physical and diet aspects, possibly discussing blood results, past and current eating habits, any physical joint or muscular ailments I have. When filling out my initial lengthy paperwork I did mention that I have some muscle soreness on my inside elbow and knee pain. This has been looked and and diagnosed by Airrosti doctors and even given prescribed stretches and everything. I did do them for awhile, which I felt better, then stopped doing them and it has come back, but not so severely that I make it a priority to re implement the stretching routines. My guess at his physical approach is maybe to address things like posture or holding stress in your shoulders or neck and addressing the mental and physical parts of that, but we will see.

As I mentioned before I eat fairly healthy, paleo/zoneish Monday thru Saturday and will have an off day or few meals. Also I had my last beer on Sunday.

Like I said I am open to any questions or input any has.

Nicolen617, I apologize for hijacking your thread, but the simple neurofeedback thread title is a perfect fit.

Will keep you posted on tomorrow's appointment (physical/diet).


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Maybe you guys can help me out. Ive tried posting a response summarizing my first appointment twice now and it is not being put through. After looking at the guidelines I dont think I am attempting to post anything against them. Any ideas of what to do or who to contact? Should I post this in the blog section?


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Been trying to post my appointment summaries, but seem to be having issues. Tried several times and contacted site staff with no luck. Hopefully I can get them up here.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 2

Today I took my filled and frozen saliva sample to the office so they could send it out. When I first arrived they took me back to get my vitals again (they do this every time, standing and laying down) and checked my weight.

Then to check my foot arches they had me step on what looked like a thick scale with a scanner glass window on top. The window was blacked out except for a box that was a little larger than a foot. First I put my right foot in the open part for scanning, standing in as natural of a posture as possible. Second my left foot. The doctor has said several times that everyone believe there is one arch in the foot and that there are really 3 and that if any of them are collapsed it can chain up the legs causing pain and discomfort with incorrect posture. They did not giving me any answers or reading on this today, just the scan for the doctor to review and discuss with me later.

Next the doctor came in to check some trigger points on me regarding my sore elbow and knee (already diagnosed by previous airrosti treatment, I just havent been following up on the stretches). He checked my ankle mobility, hamstring and hip flexibility, rotation at my waist, trigger points in my hip/abdomen, on to the front and back of my shoulder and into my neck. By checking, mostly he was either manually flexing the joint or applying pressure nearby to see if it caused any pain. He also pushed and pulled on my head in almost every direction looking for pain, but didnt find anything. Acouple instances did cause pain because I tweaked my back this morning during a deadlift, which seemed muscular like a pull. He thought it was skeletal and had me lay on my stomach hold my breath pull one leg back and he practically performed CPR on my back which cracked quite a few times. This for the second "fixed" my strain, but it came back later. No big deal.

After the chiro check, the doctor left me in the hands of his two assistants and they began taking x rays, starting at my knees, mid and upper spin and into the neck, multiple views of each. The doctor will be reviewing these to check for curvature, disk misalignment and anything else that might show up. Again, to be discussed at a later date.

The final stop for the day was in with the doctors wife's office, which it seems she handles the nutrition portion. This was only supposed to be a brief discussion for her to understand what kind of changes will be needed. First we discussed food, which I told her I eat pretty health, paleo/zoneish most of the time (usually eat out or something on the weekends). Then asked if I drink any caffeine, which I do not. I am actually trying to cut out decaf, since there is really no point, but the warm beverage in the early morning really helps me wake up. Been trying to find some sort of tea, but havent got around to it. The she asked about alcohol consumption and I told her I stopped drinking since Sunday, which she was surprised. Apparently I didnt have to stop yet, not until they had set out my "Phase I" diet prescription. No big deal, its not a bad thing to not drink, but I may decide to havea few beers when I head back home to Ohio in a week.

Next week I have one appointment scheduled for Monday, which should be my first neurofeedback appointment (training). It should have been today, but a patient accidentally knocked the machine off the counter and they had to send it out for repair. The next appointment they could get me was on thursday, but after checking that is when I will be flying home to Ohio. So I rescheduled for the following Monday, which by then they should have all results and x rays back and reviewed. Hopefully at that point a plan will start to develop.

Let me know if you guys have any questions or comments.

Thanks


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 3

This morning my first activity was a neurofeedback therapy session. As I mentioned earlier, this did not utilize the entire skull cap of sensors,[ but did have more than I thought. Originally I understood it would only use a couple ear sensors and maybe an index finger sensor, which sounded very similar to the setup that can be used for heart rate variability training. Actually there was the two clip on ear sensors and 3 attached to my head with one top center and two located in the lower back of the skull. These also had a gel placed between the sensor and my head. The technician mentioned that we still do not have everything that we need to develop a plan and start the therapy and corrections, so this would be another type of baseline assessment.

The exercise was to recline, relax and close my eyes. The program would be making tones or chimes that indicate the desired brain wave state the program is searching for. I asked if I should really try to relax or focus on something specific and the technician further explained that this was a subconscious exercise/reward program and that there was nothing that I could do to achieve a "better" result. She also reminded me that this is only for baselining and to not try and beat or win it, kind of jokingly. She is starting to realize that if i know what to do I try to do it as fast and hard as I can to finish it and move to the next step, which can be counter productive in certain situations (relaxing, meditating, etc.). I also realized today that this is something that I need to be aware of and not let this mindset take control during these practices, potentially stunting progress or impact of them.

Once I closed my eyes the tech had me take a couple deep breath cycles and the tones started ringing. First just one every couple seconds, then 1 about every second. The technician mentioned that I would be pretty pretty good at this if I have been practicing meditation, because some people have a hard time sitting still for an extended period of time (she never told me how long it would take). After a minute or so the technician left the room and said she would be back to check on me in a little bit. All I could hear was the tones every second or so and some light relaxing guitar music left on for the exercise.

As quickly as I started getting the frequent tones, it felt very similar to my response on heart rate variability and being able to reach an increased state of coherence, so I tried to really focus and relax and increase my tone frequency, because I can manipulate the HRV device. With this I was not able to tell a parallel in the pattern between my mental state (relaxed or thoughtful) to the pattern of the tones. Eventually I assumed I was not able to manipulate this and spent the rest of the time relaxing. After about 20 mins the tones stopped and the technician returned to take the sensors off and do whatever she had to in the program.

Next I went into a room with the doctor to discuss my x rays from the previous week. Turns out that I have tech neck. The term and health condition is derived from the onset of cervial spinal degeneration resulting from the repeated stress of frequent forward head flexion while looking down at the screens of mobile devices and texting for long periods of time. I knew this as I catch myself project my chin forward and do have neck aches. At the beginning of this year I started standing at my desk job and it has really shown me how poor my posutre is, especially when I depend on it to be stable for an extended period of time. This has lead me to critiquing and searching for fixes, so I am a little educated on posture probelms and adjustments, I just never religously implemented the fixes, but it did not surprise me with this diagnosis.

The diagnosis that did surprise me was that I have scoliosis. From the x rays it doesnt look subtle either (ill try to load pictures if I can). He said that there is no real cure, only that we can manage any further damage going forward and try to make small adjustments that may results in a more favorable position...which is a nice way of saying whats done is done, lets try to save what we can. This is weird because if you asked anyone who sees me regularly, they would think I have great posture, very active and healthy, I can throw alot of weight around with no pain and Im sure they wouldnt think that I would have scolosis. I guess that is just my limited understanding of scoliosis thinking that it is an imeddiate impact ot performance, glaringly obvious to bystanders or a result of poor lifestyle choices, which it still may be. Mine the doctor suggested is just genetic, and left alone will become more sever over you life, but luckily we have caught it before any performance impact symptoms have been noticed.

These issues are brought up and checked for in the belief that all body and life systems are connected, meaning what you eat impacts how you think and sleep, and you posture impacts your mood, etc. and vice versa. My doctor always says he addresses mental physical and biochemical because they are all connected and to get an accurate picture, diagnosis and treatment you need to consider all things. My spinal and neck issues may be causing interference or disconnects in my neuro network throughout my body and may not directly fix my DP by straightening out my neck and accommodating my scoliosis, but could provide a better environment for healing to take place. Even if it doesnt fix my DP, adjusting these things will lead to greater longevity and mobility down the road.

So now some of the chiro adjustments begin to take place. The first contraption I was strapped into was a posture neck pump cervical disk hydrator. Would be better if you just google what this is, but it is meant to slowly be putting my straight and stiff tech eck back to its natural curve. I warm up with three air pumps, hold for 10 seconds then release. This is repeated 10 times, which completes the warmup. Once the warm up is completed the inflated position will be held for a set period of time, starting with 10 mins and going up by a couple minutes every session or couple sessions depending on feeling, up to a maximum of 20 minutes. This felt a little uncomfortable, but was okay. at the end they had me rotate and stretch my neck before getting up and moving around.

Next machine they put me on was an ATM (Active Therapeutic Machine) treatment. This was meant to address the crookedness in my lower back, which is caused by my anterior pelvic tilt. Again this is something I assumed that I had and attempted (barely) to consciously adjust. The machine pretty much straps you in on the lower portion and you are asked to bend over. By strapping you in, you are relieving the lower muscle from working, but are bending over forcing the movable muscles to strengthen which should assist in adjusting the muscular imbalance and pull the pelvis in to its proper alignment (my take on their explanation). This was only done for 10 reps at 4 second holds, probably just as an introduction exercise.

After the ATM I was placed on a table/bed that had a large roller that would cycle starting at the top of my spine, lifting me up off the table and spreading my chest. This slowly worked its way down to my lower spine and back up, which repeated for 5 or 6 times. This I believe was a spinal hydrator, flexing all the joints and allowing fluid to flow. This felt really good, not as an indicator of effectiveness, but in relieving a lot of the low back muscle tightness I have from working out.

The last session I went through was shockwave percussion therapy, which consists of a small handheld, two pronged jack hammer. This is place on each vertebrae of your spine, the trigger is puller and the jack hammer starts moving. It sounds like a certain amount of power or force is project from the device into your spine, and there should be a resulting movement in your spine (measured by the handheld device). If there is not enough movement in your spine, he will hit it again until the readout is where it needs to be. I do not know the units used for this or acceptable ranges, but Im sure you can google and look at it if you would like to earn more. The spots that were tough for him to get the proper reading were in my neck (tech neck) upper spine (poor posture/rolled shoulders) and lower spine (pelvic tilt). He always asks me if something feels better afterwards and I say yes, but I feel like it would feel better regardless of if something was fixed or now you are just not hitting me with your little jackhammer, which doesnt hurt, but I would assume your body tenses for the impacts and after several tenses you tend to relax further than when you started (false positive?)

I did ask them to give me my x rays so I will upload them if I can. This Thursday I am going back home and will not be making another appointment this week. Next Tuesday everything should be in, blood saliva, etc. and can start to layout the nutrition portion of my program followed up with some neurofeedback and chiropractic adjustments. I will keep you posted.

Let me know if you have any questions or comments.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 4

First Ill say that I found o the clinic did not expect me to stop drinkning until I started "Phase 1" of my diet plan, which was delayed slightly from getting the saliva and bloodwork back. Once I found thta out I did start to have some beers again on the weekend, or while doing housework. I think I went one week without drinking before finding out. Wasnt a big deal, I would cut myself off for a week (mon-fri) every once in awhile. Jumping back into it just made it easier since we had a couple parties and a trip back home. Once I start the nutrition (next monday/tuesday) Ill have to quit again, which shouldnt be an issue. I understand that I cannot make a perfect time ot quit drinking where there will not be functions that people are drinking at. My company vacation, guys weekend, will be the first weekend of my diet plan and all they do is eat junk and drink at a cabin on a lake so I will need to pack my own food and not drink. I dont think this will be a problem, but will come with some resistance for sure, the guys I work with are cavemanish (some).

1 - neurofeedback session. same sensors, each ear and a couple on the head, quitar music in the background, no tones in the beginning for the first couple minutes, then the tones started one every second or a couple per second, until the end when there is a couple minutes of no tones. The frequency and pattern of the tones is not consistent and the technician told me today that this is a results of the brain oscillating between desired states, which should get closer to honing in (after an extended period of training). I again asked the technician if I should be intentionally relaxing or trying to think of anything and she said no. There was no feedback given after the session such as good or better than last time or worse, whatever, but I guess I shouldnt be looking for one either.

2 - Next we discussed the results of my saliva, blood and original brain mapping. I do not have the results in front of me so I will have to update this after my next appointment once I have the results. From the saliva they said my circadian rhythm looked good, which is a big plus on my part that they dont have to try and manipulate that at all. with the blood work, my fasting blood sugar was 101 which he said is not major cause for concern, but is higher than he expected. The diet change that Ill be doing will address this. My T3 was out of range. Uric acid was higher than expected which could cause some joint pain and is probably a result of all the red meat and pork I have been eating (paleoish). Nothing was so out of whack that their typical template of cleanse diet will not address it.

The original brain scan was sent to someone for review and their diagnosis matched near exactly to what I had described in my original questionnaire paperwork, constant anxiety, hyperstimulation, trauma as a kid, trouble focusing, emotional numbness, etc. I was told, and understand, that this is good since we do not have some outlier either in my paperwork or from the brain scan that we need to address or diagnose, the match up near perfectly. The person who diagnosed my original brain scan sends their prescription for treatment, which is a suggested format of brain training or therapy. The clinic then combines this suggestion with software provided programming and their experience to make a suggestions between the diagnoser's 4 option (light to aggressive) therapy approach. The clinic has chosen to start with a lighter approach as they feel I am able to function successfully now and there is no need to get aggressive on treatment. The potential downside of being aggressive is causing undesirable emotions to surface, such as sadness or depression, but attempting to get these certain area or wavelengths of the brain to function simultaneously. I was told this is a rare occurrence, but see no need to temp it if it is not necessary. Also that even if we went through the aggressive treatment, and I did experience some uncomfortable feelings, it is nothing permanent, just a day or so funk. This light approach treatment will start next session.

3 - We discussed that their typical template for a cleanse and clean diet will work for my bloodwork and saliva results. Some things were out of balance, but they will not need to supplement me with any hormones or anything like that, which I am really happy about. Their typical template consist of eating low glycemic vegetarian meals for the first 7 days along with a vegetarian protein shake a couple times a day, cleansing pills a few times a day, probiotics before bed, and a green food supplement. The second and third week eliminates the cleanse pills and changes the frequency of protein shakes. The last 10 days I can introduce palm size servings of deep sea wild caught fish and then free range hormone and antibiotic free chicken. Throughout this process I will be journaling what I am eating each day, how I feel and anything else that is noticeable (bowel movements, sleep, energy levels, etc.).

4 - The last thing we did this session was to check my range of motion. I thought this would be more of a head to toe analysis of felxibility/mobility (can oyu touch your toes, turn your neck or back all they way, etc.). They would put a sensor on my forehead and one on my shoulder and have me turn my head a few times then move to the next shoulder (it actually alternated left to right, but each 4 times). Then similar for my head up and down, then bending forward and backward, then laying down and doing a situp and back extension. Not really what i was expecting, but i guess this will be tracking progress of my physical therapy over the course of these ~4 months.

My next appointment i this friday. I will be getting my blood and saliva results, hopefully to post, another neurofeedback session and not sure what else. By friday I will have a grocery list of vegetable meals/salads for the week to make on sunday when we get home. We are going out of town for my wife to get a small vacation before our baby comes in mid june (expected). Until monday I will probably still have a few beers here and there. Coffee every morning will probably be tougher to quit, but I am allowed to have white and green tea, so I may look into that for a morning drink.

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 4 28 2017

1 - Another session of neurofeedback. The technician stressed to really try and relax. I didnt know if this was because of my results previously, maybe I was influencing the effectiveness or results, or what. She said she was just trying to tell me to stop worrying about the neurofeedback, how it is working or trying to do good at it or make it more effective. This time, my appointment was later in the day. After she got me hooked up, started the music, kicked back the recliner and left the room, I ended up falling asleep after 10 mins or so. I think I only dozed off for a couple mins and then woke back up for the last couple minutes of tones every second or so. I did feel more relaxed afterward, but I can powernap, so a 5 minute sleep can really impact my mood/awareness/functioning. Overall I have not felt any improvements that I can say are directly from the nuerofeedback. It has only been a few sessions, so I would say I am probably get more used to the routine and will be getting in a better mindset once I can go in, get hooked up and shut down mentally to let the nuerofeedback do its work.

2 - Next I was put in to the cervical posture pump again. For this you lay down on a table and your neck is placed over an inflatable tube, with your head strapped down at the forehead and chin. You use a blood pressure cuff bulb to pump 3 times, hold for 10 seconds and release for your warmup up (10x). Then the inflation is held for 10 mins (2 mins added every few sessions to 20 mins max). After the hold of 10 mins, the device is removed and you sit up and begin neck rotations (left, right, up, down, tilt, etc. for 4 secs each). Following this sessions, my neck felt stretched and very good.

3 - The next item was to lay on the spine roller table (similar to Armedica Quantum 400 IST Roller Massage Table). This lasted bout 10 mins. I also really like this table as it is intended to get movement back in the spine by slowing moving up and down the spine while pressing up into it. It probably feels good because my typical posture tends to be shoulders rolled in, tight chest, sore back/neck, which this is a nice compliment to.

4 - The machine used on me next was a new one, called a chirossager. Laying face down on a massage table, the masseuse started at my shoulders, went all the way down to my ankles on both sides and back up to my shoulders. This little machine was more powerful than I expected. Everything felt good because of the amount of force this little machine could put into me. Typically I do not like hand massages on my shoulders or anything from my wife or anyone. And I have notice that by the couple of chiropractors I have gone to I am pretty much ticklish even by strong hands and almost painful pressing. After I was done with this, it hit me that it will be tough to look back after this in 4 months and say that I dont "feel better", roughly 2 thorough massages a week for 4 months would make almost anyone feel better, or at least in a better mood/mindset. This wont necessarily cure or rehab depersonalization, but a better mindset/attitude is supportive to the other practices intended to address depersonalization specifically.

5 - Last was the precussive spine adjustment. This never feels good or bad during or after. This is just his reading and quick adjustment on gained spinal flexibility and movement. This time he did not adjust my neck as much as last time, I believe means it passed the percussive test, which is an improvement in itself.

6 - At the end of the percussive spinal test/adjustment we reviewed my range of motion results, which were a little more detailed than I thought. I have all my results at home, I just forgot to bring them with me to update. Theres a reminder in my phone to grab them tonight, so I will update soon.

My wife and I went out of town for the weekend straight after this appointment. All supplements and instructions needed for the cleanse diet I have, but with this little weekend trip and my companys retreat weekend coming up, I have decided to put the start of the cleanse off (caved). Following these two events, I do not know of any annual event or anything that I would specifically enjoy full participation. I have told my wife to hold me to this so that I do not start/continue to push this off. Put this off another week also gives me a full day and a half to meal prep for the following week, which yesterday I would have only had a few hours and was tired already from the return drive.

I am going to begin to research neurofeedback brainwave measurement, response, tone therapy, etc. so that I can put my mind at ease and fully relax, ask any questions to give a more in depth update to you everyone and just for explanation to my friends, family, coworkers who will inevitable begin to ask why I am missing so much work, and have drastically changed my diet.

As always if you have any questions or comments, let me know.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 5 2 2017

The appointments now are starting to become routine in that I hit each station once, but depending on what is available while other patients are getting their work done. The typical stations are posture neck pumps for 10+ mins, IST roller massage table for ~10 mins, ATM2 back project machine for ~10 reps (4 secs), laying down chirosagger for ~10 mins, percussive sound wave adjusting technology takes ~5 10 mins, neurofeedback ~20-25 mins.

This session, following the percussive adjustment, my orthotic inserts were given to me. These are intended to adjust the 3 arches in my foot. In one of my earlier appointments I stood on a scanning machine which took a fancy picture of the soles of my feet. This was sent to the manufacturer of the inserts and they adjusted my inserts according to the adjustments I needed. With most of the adjustments happening on my back to my spine, this is supporting those adjustments by starting at the bottom and giving the legs, hips, spine a correct foundation to sit on. Looking at them there are much larger contours/bubbles on these than I have seen on other shelf brand orthotics. After inserting them, they just feel a little annoying, not uncomfortable. The doctor also told me to spend some time rolling a golf ball around under my foot to help in release of the muscle and assist the orthotic insert in making adjustments. Every once in a while I will roll a lacrosse ball on the bottom of my feet just as a part of my general mobility practice, but the doc recommended against this because it may be too large to be as effective.

I have quit attending my crossfit gym in order to enjoy the last month or so of sleeping in before our daughter is born. The only time that I was going was to the 530 am class, which was easiest with my commute and work schedule. It was doable, but I could tell that it was not best for my sleep, having to take 1-2 naps per day and still be tired in the evening. Since then I have started working out at home, still in the morning, not as early, and have not needed to take naps every day and I am not as tired in the evening. Also, during my neurofeedback sessions since then, I have fallen asleep briefly. The technician says that is a good thing because it means I am fully relaxed and my mind should be clear to allow the tones and software to do their work.

As always let me know if you have any questions.

Clean diet starts next week.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 5 3 2017

Today I did a back to back session with yesterday because I will be going out of town on Thursday and wanted to get my two weekly sessions in. Same typical stations: posture neck pumps for 10+ mins, IST roller massage table for ~10 mins, ATM2 back project machine for ~10 reps (4 secs), laying down chirosagger for ~10 mins, percussive sound wave adjusting technology takes ~5 10 mins, neurofeedback ~20-25 mins.

Same chiropractic adjustments and neurofeedback sessions. This felt like a very quick visit because there was no other patients in the office and I was able to go right from one machine to the next. In the end it only saved me 15 mins (usually 1 hr 30 mins or so), but it made me realize that this would be the best time to start communication on tracking effectiveness/progress with the staff. I did mention before that I would start doing some additional research on everything to better understand what is going on, but also to ask the staff their opinions and expectations. To not over analyze the process and stress about it rather than relax and let it do it's thing, I also understand now is the time to sit back and observe myself for changes. This will be more important and stable once the clean diet is in place (next week).

Let me know if anyone has any questions/comments for me or the staff.

Thanks.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Test results, notice the B12 note at the bottom. Im sure a lot of people dont care much about this stuff, but in case you do here you go. and it will be interesting to compare after the diet. X rays and range of motion will be coming next.

Saliva Test

BMI: 26.4
Ht: 6'
Wt: 195 lb
Waist: 34

Estradiol - 1.2 (0.5-2.2 pg/mL)
Progesterone - 15 (12-100 pg/mL)
Testosterone - 112 (44-148 pg/mL)
DHEAS - 3.9 (2-23 ng/mL)
Cortisol (Morning) - 5.8 (3.7-9.5 ng/mL)
Cortisol (Noon) - 2.5 (1.2-3.0 ng/mL)
Cortisol (Evening) - 0.9 (0.6-1.9
Cortisol (Night) - 0.8 (0.4-1.0 ng/mL)

Blood Test

Thyroid Panel w/TSH
*T3 Uptake - 40H (22-35%)*
T4 Total - 5.9 (4.5-12mcg/dL)
Free T4 Index (T7) - 2.4 (1..4-3.8)
TSH - 1.31 (0.4-4.5 mIU/L)

Lipid Panel 
Cholesterol, Total - 185 (125-200 mg/dL)
HDL Cholesterol - 65 (> or = 40 mg/dL)
Triglycerides - 61 (<150 mg/dL)
LDL Cholesterol - 108 (<130 mg/dL)

Note: Desirable range <100 mg/dL for patients with CHD or diabetes and <70 mg/dL for diabetic patients with known heart disease.

Chol/HDLC Ratio - 2.8 (< or = 5.0)
Non HDL Cholesterol - 120

Note: Target for non HDL cholesterol is 30 mg/dL higher than LDL cholesterol target.

Comprehensive Metabolic Panel 
*Glucose - 101H (65-99 mg/dL*

Note: For someone without known diabetes, a glucose value between 100 and 125 is consistent with prediabetes and should be confirmed with a follow up test.

Urea Nitrogen (BUN) - 16 (7-25 mg/dL)
Creatinine - 1.11 (0.6-1.35 mg/dl)
eGFR Non-Afr. American - 89 (> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
eGFR African American - 103 (> or = 60 mL/min/1.73m2)
Bun/Creatinine Ratio - NA
Sodium - 141 (135-146 mmol/L)
Potassium - 4.5 (3.5-5.3 mmol/L)
Chloride - 103 (98-110 mmol/L)
Carbon Dioxide - 31 (20-31 mmol/L)
Calcium - 9.9 (8.6-10.3 mg/dL)
Protein, Total - 7.2 (6.1-8.1 g/dL)
Albumin - 4.7 (3.6-5.1 g/dL)
Globulin - 2.5 (1.9-3.7 g/dL)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio - 1.9 (1.0-2.5)
Bilirubin, Total - 0.7 (0.2-1.2 mg/dL)
Alkaline Phosphatase - 55 (40-115 U/L)
AST - 26 (10-40 U/L)
ALT - 21 (9-46 U/L)
Phosphate (as Phosphorous) - 2.6 (2.5-4.5 mg/dL)
*Uric Acid - 8.8H (4.0-8.0 mg/dL)*

Note:Therapeutic target for gout patients: <6.0 mg/dL)

Bilirubin, direct -0.1 (< or = 0.2 mg/dL
LD - 173 (100-200 U/L)
GGT - 12 (3-90 U/)
CBC (Includes DIFF/PLT) 
White Blood Cell Count - (3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL)
Red Blood Cell Count - 4.93 (4.2-5.8 million U/L)
Hemoglobin - 14.9 (13.2-17.1 g/dL)
Hematocrit - 43.2 (38.5-50 %)
MCV - 87.6 (80-100fL)
MCH - 30.2 (27-33 pg)
MCHC - 34.5 (32.0-360 g/dL)
RDW - 13.3 (11-15%)
Platelet Count - 185 (140-400 Thousand/uL)
MPV - 9.6 (7.5-12.5 fL)
Absolute Neutrophils - 4951 (1500-7800 cells/uL)
Absolute Lymphocytes - 1045 (850-3900 cells/uL)
Absolute Monocytes - 657 (200-950 cells/uL)
Absolute Eosinophils - 27 (15-500 cells/uL)
Absolute Basophils - 20 (0-200 cells/uL)
Neutrophils - 73.9%
Lymphocytes - 15.6%
Monocytes - 9.8%
Eosinophils - 0.4%
Basophils - 0.3%
Iron, Total - 135 (50-180 mcg/dL)
Vitamin B12 - 350 (200-1100 pg/mL)

*Note: Although the reference range for vitamin B12 is 200-1100, it has been reported that between 5 and 10% of patients with valuves between 200 and 400 may experience nueropsychiatric and hematologic abnormalities due to occult B12 deficiency; less than 1% of patients with values above 400 will have symptoms. *


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sessions 5 9 2017

Today's session was simple.

Neurofeedback and done.

I did start my vegetarian diet on Monday (5 8 2017) and have had low energy, been cranky, hungry and my mind is constantly wandering (more than usual) I think because I am never satisfied. With diet changes, there are some adjustment that you will need to get used to, sub and consciously. On this diet I will be eating less food, feel less full, not be happy about not being able to have meats (which the simple caveman style way I cook are always the more tasty items) and typically my vegetables/fruits are eaten cold or room temperature. If I were a better cook or really cared about that, I could spend more time preparing my meals, which I do all weeks on Sunday mornings. This is not my first rodeo on drastic diet changes and I know the change funk only last a few days before the stomach shrinks down a little, you stop worrying about the food, energy levels come back and sleep improves, so I will just suck it up and wait it out.

And all the supplements taste like crap. They recommended a smoothie to mask my plant protein powder and I said dont worry about it, I can choke stuff like that down (again lazy caveman approach to palatability). The powder is horrible and the pills I have to take are all powder in caps, which smell and dont taste great either. I have been able to choke them all down, but I make a pretty funky face as I do it. Havent really felt anything from the supplements that I can claim confidently.

I was going to ask the doctor today about the B12 results in my blood and their thoughts, but they were both busy when I was done with my neurofeedback, so I figured I would catch them tomorrow.

Any questions let me know.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Sessions 5 10 2017

Todays session was a typical neurofeedback and chiropractic adjustment.

Before the neurofeedback adjustment the technician asked if I was feeling anything, better, different in any way. My response was that I am tired, low energy, trouble concentrating and cranky mood by the end of the day, and reminded her that I had started my diet this last Monday. She said that is to be expected, but was speaking in terms of personality changes in me seen by the staff, being more friendly, talkative, and smiling. Not totally wanting to burst her bubble I did tell her I noticed that my short term memory has seemed to be improved since starting neurofeedback. Typically when I walk into a room and forget what I came in for I will never remember, where I left something or a task I have to do. There has definitely been a noticeable improvement in my addressing of these situations. Then I told her the improved personality is me just getting comfortable with your staff and the routine. Routines are pretty big to me because I can get comfortable and not have to analyze everything because I already have. Not that I can see the benefits in changing it up, but it helps in reducing some stress.

Also, before the neurofeedback session started I ask if there was treatment phases similar to the diet. If whoever read and diagnosed my original brain scan prescribed X treatment for Y time period and rescan, or if it is a similar exercise every time and that is all I will do until I leave. She said that there is an original plan, which I am on currently that is asking my brain to produce a certain ratio or composition of brain wavelengths. She gets a readout during each session that she can interpret as it was a good session (I relaxed and had a higher accuracy of reaching the desired points) or a session that I may not have been hitting it as much. If there is continued regression or stagnat progress they will rescan and adjust. From the beginning there is no specified phases, but if they choose or I need to be rescanned, that could be considered the end of the first phase, but it was not intentional. She is always hesitant on giving me too much information or insight because she knows that there is a possibility that I will overthink the process and try to "win" the session or agressively change my brain wavelengths somehow and not be focused on relaxing, which is what should produce the best results. Good for me treatment wise, but leaving the understanding and sharing of information for you guys to my own research I guess.

At the end of my session I brought up the B12 from my bloodwork and she said that she would discuss it with the doctor. Before she did she explained that the blood tests are used as a benchmark and the diet, cleanse and supplements should assist in getting all those levels where they should be (hopefully). If not there may need to be some supplementatio. While doing my chiropractic adjustments she came up and said the doctor has recommended a B12 shot to see if there is some improvement in how you are feeling. After some quick google searching, lack of B12 can be associated with lethargy, muscle aches, trouble concentrating (which I told her before) and mood changes. This all seemed to be stuff that I could not immediately say was from the lack of B12 and not from my drastic diet change. I told her that if it was okay with the doctor I would rather wait and retest in phase 2 of my diet rather than do the injection, the purpose of me asking was to see if you could confirm or deny the note that there may be a link between B12 deficiency and nueropsychiatric conditions. She said that they couldnt comment on that specifically with respect to depersonalization, but given the number of functions that B12 has in the body, theres no doubt that it could leave you more susceptible to impacts of other stressers (quite the political answer, but true). Talked briefly with the doctor before I left and just said I would rather see if the diet corrects it rather than starting any sort of injections. He said he had no problem with that and just didnt know if we wanted to approach this as trial and error, because it wouldnt hurt to give me an injection and see.

Today is day 3 of my diet, which is usually my last bad feeling day when shifting what I eat. After this my sleep should start to get better, energy levels return, mood improvement and hopefully concentration returns.

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

[sharedmedia=gallery:albums:122]

x ray results, not all of them, but the important ones showing poor posture and scoliosis.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 5 15 2017

Today is day 8 of my diet cleanse, eating vegetarian with no dairy or grains, no alcohol, no caffeine/coffee only tea. It is getting old eating nothing but fruits and vegetables, but it is because I do not put much effort into recipe or food prep. More of vegetable, seasoning oven or stove top until I think its done and finished. Hopefully that tastes good. Initially, I thought on day 8 I would be able to start eating meat, which I one thing I am missing most, but turns out I cannot have meat until day 11. No big deal I will make it, just sucks I have to wait a couple more days. The vice I am missing most is my decaf coffee, as crazy as that sounds to high octane coffee drinkers. Coffee is a very full flavored and soothing drink in the morning, for me, and the green/white tea I am allowed to have is just not cutting it. I am hoping there is some sort of agreement I can reach with the faculty at some point to let me have that towards the end of the program...fingers cross.

Quitting alcohol has not been an issue. My wife and I actually went out with some friends this passed Saturday at a bar, where they both ordered drink (and really good looking meat) and I was not shaken at all. As a surprise to myself, I still joked, laughed and had a good time, which I thought would be a lot harder. Goes to show the crutch substance dependence can create, whether mental or physical. While I was drinking, I always told people that I did not need it and could quit when I wanted to without any withdrawal, I just conveniently never had a good enough reason to quit long term to prove it. Now having started the journey of a minimum 4 months sober, I am glad that what I have been saying is true, but that is not a reason to have continued drinking.

One thing I have noticed since starting eating (cleanse) and not drinking is that a panic attack seems much farther away. Before all of this, I always seemed to have tightness and a slight sharp pain in my chest. When I would enter a situation or thought, it was an immediate indicator (pain or tightness) if I were starting to stress about something, or if my mind was wondering on something unproductive (mortality, work or current mind state usually). I haven't yet gotten rid of these thoughts completely, but my chest, neck and eyes have really seemed to relax and be less reactive to brain chatter. This is comforting and definitely has helped in staying on course with food choices and alcohol removal.

Last week I mentioned that my short term memory has been improving (where are my keys, why did I come in this room, what am I supposed to do after work, etc.). This on top of the physical relief from tension has felt very nice, and the few moments I have had over the last few days to relax (meditation like, just shut everything down) have been very powerful and comforting. With the reduced physical stress and anxiety, I have also been closer to repersonalization. It is still something that I have to focus on, and can only last a few seconds, but it is easier to get to that point without having to quiet all the usual noise (before) and get pulled out of it by panic. Repersonalization, even briefly, does feel like a sort of detachment since it is not my norm and feels as if I have slipped into a different dimension or place, even though it is good. Since I know that it is a good state, I do try to reinforce the good feeling and suppress any sort of panic, investigative thought or denial that does arise to try and support those feelings.

In summary, I am feeling better. Again, I dont know if it is the food, neurofeedback or elimination of alcohol specifically, or a combination of all of the above. So far my guess would be alcohol elimination, neurofeedback and then clean eating and chiropractic adjustments as far as priority and impact on improvement.

The tech did ask how everything was going and we ended up talking about her doing a few sessions of neurofeedback because of some sleeping issues. I mentioned to her that I have quit waking up at 430 AM to try and enjoy as much sleep as I can get before my daughter is born, I have been eating healthy, not drinking and no caffeine, but have been waking up feeling less resfreshed than what I would expect. For example, last night I went to bed around 9/930 PM, andhad an alarm set for 530 (~8hrs) to get up and stretch/workout at home. Waking up a felt really groggy and decided I was going back to sleep. I ended up falling right back to sleep easily until myreset alarm at 7 am (almost 10 hrs). I consider this to be unsual, but dont know for sure if it is part of the cleanse or detox. When she had mentioned sleep I figured I would bring this up and let them determine importance. The doctor was busy when I was done and she said she would discuss with him later and they would determine if there needs to be an adjustment in my neurofeedback.

Today there were a couple exercises added to my chriopractic adjustments. The first was to strengthen muscles to assist in adjusting my anterior pelvic tilt. They had me lay back down on a table with my knees bent and feet on the table, and instead of doing glute bridges (lifting everything of the table to my shoulders), I was only lift my glutes by pivoting at my hips for 4 second holds. the prescription was to do 30 reps of this. The other machine was a wave pro elite, and is a large standing platform that vibrates. For this I did 6 reps of 30 second holds trying to touch my toes with straight legs, stretching my hamstrings. From crossfit and my mobility this is an easy stretch for me, but hamtrings are also one of my biggest limitors (next to lower back). The technician did not know the purpose of the vibration on top of the stretch, but I assume it is to provide sutle stress on the fascia while stretching naturally.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.

Next time I am going to ask about my diet supplements (I have already ran out of a couple), the sleep quality/neurofeedback relation and why they dont do any sort of monitoring of sleep.

Thanks.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 5 19 2017

After discussing with the tech last week that my sleep quality may not be as good as I expected (sleeping ~8 hrs and still feeling tired), they did adjust my neurofeedback programming a little they said. They wouldnt give me specifics other than they changed some of the set points. She said she really doesnt want me focusing on it too much, but to let her know how my sleeping is over the next week or two.

My supplements have started running out since I am finished with the cleansing portion of my diet. Starting today I am able to introduce wild caught fish on to pof my fruit and vegetable diet, which I am really looking forward to. Starting Next tuesday I can have antibiotic hormone free, free range chicken. After that should be smooth sailing. I did ask when I can have sweet potatoes since that is one of the easiest healthy filling vegetables that work for me and she said this is typically left for phase 2 (in another week), but since I workout a lot, was eating fairly clean before hand and havent had any set backs that I can introduce them now, so I will probably pick up a few of these for next week.

The pelvic raise exercise they had me do last week, they added a leg extension from each side to consider it 1 rep (raise pelvis, right leg extension, left leg, down), for 30 reps.

During the percussion spinal adjustment, he did spend more time pulling my neck side to side while hammering on the opening side. Also spent more time on my hips.

Wednesday of next week (3) we will see what they have in store for my diet phase 2. Also I will be monitoring how I sleep.

Regarding the depersonalization progress, I may have underestimated how detached I felt before starting all of this. My scale went from a panic attack dissociation being ~100% dissociated and I was always able to snap myself out of it briefly, maybe 5 seconds at a time, and that I would say would be 5-10% dissociated. My typical operating range I thought was around 20-30%, but now after feeling some vast improvement in clarity, mental chatter and access to snapping myself out of it, I must have been around 60-70% and improved to 30-40% dissociated. I guess what Im trying to say is the progress I have made is more than I expected and I still have plenty of room to improve. I mentioned before that my short term memory has greatly improved. My sleep has been different since starting all of this, but we are not positive if it is DP, diet, Neurofeedback, alcohol or exercise related, but they are going to tweak my neurofeedback programming to see if it helps. By being able to snap out of it easier, I mean it does not take much for me to silence my mind and focus reintegrating myself and coming back to reality. The mental chatter has definitely slowed down to where I feel like I am controlling it now more than watching it and being along for the ride. I dont stare at myself in the mirror as much wondering who I am looking at or trying to convice myself that its men. Same with looking at my hands, if I look down itfeels like they are connected through my arm to my brain and eyes, like Im one. This isnt all the time now, it takes effort to perceive things this way. Its just easier to access and enjoy now.

Im really looking forward to the next couple week to track progress. I wont be so hangry with nothing but vegetables, my sleep will hopefully improve and the detachment just keeps getting better. We will see.

Let me know if anyone has any questions.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 5 24 2017

Today's session was typical, with neurofeedback first and chiropractic adjustment second. For the pelvic tilt exercises I did single leg raises, 10 on each side back and forth until I accumulated 30 on each leg.

Following this, I did sit down with the nutritionist and go over phase 2 pf my diet plan. Phase 1 consisted of 11 days of cleansing with a lot of supplements, eating pretty much only fruit and vegetables. Then I was able to introduce wild caught deepwater fish after 11 days (sockeye salmon, cod and seabass). After day 16 I was able to introduce antibiotic free range chicken. Now going into phase 2 the supplements have started to run out. The only thing I will continue taking is DHEA and probiotic. During phase 2 I will remin dairy, soy and gluten free, but can individually introduce anything outside of that that I would like. When something new is introduced, I eat it once and go back to my phase 1 diet for 72 hours and monitor if there are any negative effects (energy, digestion, gas, allergy, etc.). My first cheat willbe with gluten free tortillas. I think tortillas are such a versatile vehicle for food, and living in texas it becomes a staple.

Alcohol is also something that I would be able to reintroduce and monitor for 72 hours. She warned me that I should try to minimize the amount and choose something gluten free like tequilas or vodkas. I have felt better since quitting my dirnking so I told her I will continue to not drink for a while. With my daughter being born soon it would be a good thing to enjoy that without the cloud of drinking. And to do my best to fully support the neurofeedback Im not going to do anything that could jeopardize that.

Over the last week or so they have changed the programming of my neurofeedback and I have started to notice that the noise, chatter and lack of focus has returned. I am going to mention this to them next appointment. Also, my sleep has not improved. I am still going to bed around 9pm and waking around 6am still feeling tired.

Let me know if anyone has any questions or input.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 5 26 2017

Again, a similar routine today with neurofeedback first and chiropractic adjustment second. The pelvic tilt exercises were standing with my back against the wall and feet slightly away from the wall, lifting my glutes off the wall and holding for 4 seconds and repeating for 30 reps. Also the doctor did manual chiropractic adjustments on my, which consists of twisting you up like a pretzel and him yanking, twisting and jerking on everything and all your joints making a lot of noise. I did feel really good afterwards though. He said usually after popping joints like that it releases small amounts of endorphins.

I did mention before my neurofeedback started that I have not felt as good the last week or so, mind chatter and lack of concentration, which the technician mentioned the change in programming from 2 or 3 sessions ago. I also asked how soon I should feel effects from changes in the nuerofeedback programming and she said from today's session you should be able to see or not see an improvement throughout the rest of the day and into tomorrow, it varies for everyone. Becoming a permanent change comes from repetition and multiple sessions per week. . Before this session she set it up to go back to my previous programming and tone. Immediately after the session I felt more clear and grounded. This goes to show that the effects can be felt immediately. I feel like the difference was so drastic that it would not be any sort of placebo effect with her just telling me she is changing something. I am always a skeptic of that. I have asked before if there were progressions to the neurofeedback and it didnt sound like there were, but my programming did change after a few weeks or months, and it seems for the worse, sending me back into my pre neurofeedback mind set. Next session I will ask the technician what the outlook is on making changes in the future based on this reaction ot the change. If the programming is as simple as dialing in a perfect baseline, then I would suggest a design of experiments type trial and error, where we start to tweak parameters one at a time and report back on changes, while using the professionals suggestions as guidelines. We will see what they say. This is exactly what they didnt want me to do, over think things, but Im just glad to be feeling better again and understand why I felt lik that and how easy it is to change. Moving forward I will be quicker to report my experiences and state of mind.

Let me know if anyone has any questions.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Forgot to mention that my blood was drawn again on 5 24 to check specifically my B12 levels, but I would assume they are doing a full panel again. So I will update those results as soon as I get them.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

session 6 13 2017

i apologize for not keeping up to date with these, it was bound to happen, but nothing drastic has changed (unfortunately) other than I do have a daughter now.

session 5 31 2017

This was a typical neurofeedback and chiropractic adjustment. In this session I brought up how adjustments are made to neurofeedback programming. She said with the lack of progress or regression they will revert back to what was working and stay there for 5 sessions to try and set that foundation again. While doing that she will monitor each session to try and determine what else she can alter to make improvements since she knows what does not work...being what we changed before that lead us to this discovery. So for the next few sessions we will just reinforce the previous programming and monitor progress.

On memorial day I did decide to introduce alcohol, so I bailed on my plan to stick to sobriety. I made all natural margaritas with lime juice stevia and 100% agave tequila. throughout the afternoon/evening I probably had 4 or 5 small glasses, which is much reduced from what I would have drank normally. The next morning I did not feel 100%, but not necessarily a hangover. Maybe poor sleep or something from all the tart lime juice, not sure. I considered this a unfavorable sign and continued back on the path of not drinking for another week.

session 6 2 2017

This again was a typical neurofeedback and chiropractic adjustment. We did discuss my phase 2 diet plan some more and what foods I would begin introducing. My first introduction was gluten free corn tortillas (restrictions include dairy, soy and gluten). I made some shredded chicken tacos, vegetables, guac and sriracha. No bad effects, bowel, mental, energy etc. from the tortillas.

I did convince them to let me try working coffee back in, which she was very hesitant to allow, but I think shes trusts that I will be fair in my assessment of it is okay or having a negative impact on me. She did require that I use all organic coffee, so a little higher end to try and avoid some of the processing chemicals, toxins, molds etc.

session 6 5 2017

Typical neuro/chiro session. No dramatic improvements in mental/neuro adjustments.

The technician always encourages me to fully relax and is usually happy if I fall asleep. After having my daughterjust a couple days before I was really looking forward to this 20-30 m window to sleep undisturbed, but could not get to sleep. This really reinforced that my mental state had returned or changed to a more undesirable, lack of focus, mental fog state.

session 6 6 2017

Typical neuro/chiro session. No dramatic improvements in mental/neuro adjustments.

session 6 13 2017

Today was a neurofeedback session only. Based on my wife's and daughter's doctor appointments, these are the only days I will be able to get to the office 9the days they dont do chiropractics).

Today I received my second blood test results, ill get actual numbers next time. My uric acid has gone to a more desirable range, the testosterone has also, but B12 is still a little low so we will be supplementing that with some folic acid and b 12 to see if we can get it up.

We also discussed again the mental clarity and neurofeedback programming as I suggest maybe removing any additional foods to the phase 1 diet and going back off of coffee to see if this helps. She was supportive of me quitting coffee to see how I do, but suggested that I return to using the 5-HTP supplement (Nootropics). My suggestion was to stop only one, coffee, and then reintroduce the supplement. When I was taking this before I did not have coffee, so if I reintroduced the supplement while still drinking coffee it may not work or may not be dtectable with the coffee. When taking this supplement during phase 1 of the cleanse, I was taking 1 tablet 3 times a day, so that is what I will be doing again. I will also not be drinking while taking the supplement and quitting coffee, which I have only done a few evenings (lightly), but the impact can last a day or two.

So over the last week or so I have drank a few more margaritas and gluten free beer. The morning after each I felt fine, but I could tell that I was not as well rested. I have not been drinking a large amount like I typically might, but even a little cause some changes.

As for food I have added beans, grass fed beef and gluten free bread with no negative impacts.

I will keep everyone posted on how the elimination of decaf coffee (daily), couple nights a light drinking and reintroducing 5-HTP impacts my mental state. I have looked into the 5-HTP and it looks like a temporary solution if it does work, and I will be looking into some more natural remedies if the 5-HTP does have an influence.

Let me know if you have any questions. I should be posting more consistently, I think we have more of a routine at home.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 6 15 2017

This was again just a typical nerufoeedback session, with no chiro adjustment. Hopefully next week I can schedule to get everything done again, with no more baby doctor appointments.

So I have started taking the 5-HTP again, and I decided to do it while continuing to drink decaf coffee daily, at least for a short amount of time (through this weekend). The same day I took the 5-HTP I feel like I could tell I had improved focus and clarity. This did not put me back to where I was before, but it was a noticeable improvement, again I am always skeptical of a placebo effect, especially with when dealing with a mental condition. We will see after this weekend I will be quitting coffee and alcohol again to sort of reset to where I was at before, while doing the cleanse.

I also dropped my prescription off for folic acid and picked up some B-12 supplement. Remember that the B-12 low result came with a description that this has been loosely linked to mental conditions so we will see how everything goes.

Contact me with any questions.

Trying to figure out again, some sort of metric to determine if the treatment is effective in curing or improvement of my conditions to let other people know if this is a worth while investment or not. Anyone with suggestions please let me know.

Thanks.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 6 19/23 2017

6/19 session was neurofeedback only after having reintroduced the 5-HTP supplement again for a few days. The supplement I feel did make a difference in the beginning, but quickly faded. The nuerofeedback has not been having the impacts that it used to, and is still not even with this supplement reintroduced. It may take some time to get back into the groove of things, but I will discuss further with the doctor to see if they have any suggestions. My concern is the regression from a point of great improvement of my feelings of depersonalisation and detachment.

6/23 Today's session was both neurofeedback and chiro exercises. I did have a chance to grab the doctor, neurofeedback tech and dietitian to discuss my concerns of regression. I am not always a clear speaker in person because I usually have been thinking on things for 2-3 weeks and have about a million points that I want to get across. Typically I mix them all up, get out a fraction of my points, and ask at the end if that made sense. My main three points were I still dont have a good idea of where we are going with the nuerofeedback (changes to programming, my progress, other options to change, etc.), my diet/supplements have changed since I felt better and reverting back to what I was doing hasnt seemed to work and that the chiropractic stuff is very lightweight and I dont expect much impact from this compared to just my regular working out. When discussing with them we mainly focused on the supplement and neurofeedback. They asked me to continue with the 5-HTP until the bottle is complete and monitor how I am feeling until then. For the nuerofeedback, the technician/doctor are having a conference call with their mentor ("who has been doing this for 40 years, writes books and software and all kinds of stuff") so they will specifically give him a heads up on my case and see if they can determine specific changes or causes in my programming.

Part of my problem is the amount of effort I am putting in to trying to solve this regression with little to no experience in neurofeedback, application or progression. But I can think and think and think on it and come up with a million reasons of why its not going to work, causing stress and anxiety. I realized this because after discussing my concerns with the team, and getting their response which was pretty much, calm down well try to figure something out, I felt like they didnt receive my message or give a crap that I wasnt feeling as good as I had been. After that I sat in the chair for neurofeedback and my mind was racing about what to do now that they dont give a crap, back to doing things on my own, I might as well ride this thing out Ive already paid for it, etc. And this is obviously an overreaction but once I said if none of this works, Im not going to get worse, Ill just be right back where I was when I started, and let go of the problem. Suddenly I relaxed. This mustve been me talking myself off the ledge.

The mental rumination, and how it can camouflage itself as beneficial and well intentioned is a tricky beast to handle. I dont blame my regression on that, it is still something to be determined, whether its neurofeedback programming, supplements, diet or even quality of sleep since we have been up at all hours with our new baby. This is a chicken or the egg scenario where the treatment can clear my mind, but a clear mind better accepts the treatment. Ill chalk this overeaction up to a learning experience and try to be more observant of my attitude towards my current state, treatment progress and assistance from the staff to make sure I am getting everything I can from them while going through this.

A different type of post, but maybe more relate able to anyone who is reading this.

Please let me know if anyone has any questions, concerns or input.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 6 26 2017

After last week's discussion I sent the staff an email trying to better convey my concerns/questions about the treatment regression. The response was happy and invited me for another discussion at my next appointment which was this morning.

First I did my neurofeedback, which followed a very sleep deprived night with the baby. My expectations were to sleep right through the whole thing, which is encouraged by the way, but I wasnt able to. My mind wasnt racing, but I was I was in a weird place that I was extremely focus on relaxation. Not sure if this was still carry over from the relief I found in last session, but this session felt good.

Following my neurofeedback I sat down to discuss my email. There was some fluff talk and positive support type discussion about me sharing my feelings, experiences and giving them feedback, but the point came down to they think that I should start to attend some discussion therapy sessions in parallel with my neurofeedback and physical therapy. In my email I questioned if my relief last week was from getting something off my chest and they took that as a sign that i am at a point where I have eliminated a lot of negative impact through my changes in diet, sleep and neurofeedback and now should look at addressing past issues with a therapist.

My initial reaction to this suggestion, in my head, was that I knew this wasnt going to work (meaning the neurofeedback, physical therapy, and diet changes lead me to full recovery). She then asked me if I knew what depersonalization was and how it comes about and treatments of it, instead of saying are you kidding me, I said sure I'd like to hear your thoughts. She gave me the general, permanent state of shock, defense mechanism, childhood trauma talk for a few minutes, nothing new.

We talked for a few minutes on my previous experience with a psychologist and his disinterest or inability to see anything wrong since I was highly functioning and successful. She insisted that finding a motivated and experienced provider will be key moving forward with a definite plan of action and treatment versus free talking sessions as before.

After this recommendation, starting therapy, set in for a little while I began to think in my head that this may not be a failure of the program I had been attending, but rather realizing that it is reaching its limits and needs another pillar of support added, just as diet, sleep physical therapy and neurofeedback had been working together. In the beginning, I was the one who defined my expectations of this program in that I wanted to be completely recovered by the end, expecting the improvement to be mainly a result of neurofeedback. During the interview process of this office, they may have never said that they can cure me, honestly they would be crazy to promise something like that so easily, but I know that they were suggesting that treatment and resolution of my condition should not be a problem if I commit and follow their program. This was my chance to do more research and understand their program more before committing, but I decided to jump in and give it a shot.

I am in a better spot than I was coming in, mentally and physically. It seems that my progress has slowed/regressed in the last couple weeks. Moving forward, I still hope for improvement from the neurofeedback and look forward to the input from the neurofeedback expert. I am also open to trying therapy in parallel and hit this from as many angles as possible. At this point I have already spent the money, which I am sure is part of the reason you pay up front, and there is no point in walking away now. I am fortunate to have good health insurance that provided 100% of my previous therapy sessions at no cost to me.

At this point I am not giving up on the effectiveness of neurofeedback, but i am coming to the realization of the severity of my state and the amount of work needed to improve or cure it, more of putting perspective to it. My expectations of the final outcome are definitely lower unfortunately. I will keep you guys posted on therapy recommendations from the office as well as neurofeedback programming discussion/changes.

Thanks and let me know if you have any questions or concerns.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 7 25 2017 neurofeedback DP integrative medicine

I am going to combine the last couple sessions into a single entry. The last couple appointments I have had were more divided because my work schedule has been a little crazy the last couple weeks.

In the first session the conference between my provider and their neurofeedback mentor was brought up. The answer was simple, "he said everything is going good". I stayed quiet waiting for more explanation, but she kept on attaching the sensors to my head. So I asked if he said anything else or gave any insight into the regression, my progression rate, input specifcally for DP or anything. She said no not really, we just looked over some of your sessions and he said these look like theyre supposed to.

This response is not at all what I was hoping for, but instead of bringing it up now in an attempt to avoid mumbling a bunch of stuff that doesnt make sense in trying to describe all the ways im dissatisfied, I decided to just think about it and send an email to her later on.

She continued to hook me up and turned the computer on, flip the lights off and left shutting the door. Then I realized that the music and indicator sound had changed. Is this a recommendation from the mentor or just coincidence? I just told myself I could mention it later in an email if I wanted to.

Later that day I did begin writing an email, and tried to keep it as concise as possible getting directly to the point. It pretty much read, can I see some of the before data compared to recent to see any changes or progress that would lead your mentor to say everything is going according to plan, just so I can better understand. She replied and said we can review at your next appointment.

With my work schedule being crazy, I only went to 2 sessions over 3 weeks with the second one being today.

7 25 2017

When I went in today I asked if she would have time to go over some data with me and she said she could after my session. Then I asked if there was a purpose to the change in tones and music and she said nothing specifically to programming, just changing it up.

After my session she sat down and turned the screen so that I could see it. She brought up one of my original sessions from back in April and it looked like a line graph similar to a stock market trend, but with several lines indicating alpha, beta, theta, gamma brain waves. She pointed out that there was a large gap between pairs of the brainwaves, I didnt catch which ones exactly, but that it showed there was a frequency separation between the left and right brain functioning. She then opened todays session and the gap was much smaller and peaks or amplitude of the trends was much lower. This means that my brains is more consistent in its functioning and is not reaching such highs and lows as far as arousal, stress, etc. Also with the gap being lessened it shows that my left and right brain have been brought into a more complimentary state.

I am always skeptical and do not feel, cured, but again I do not have the stress and panic attacks that I had in the beginning so there has been some improvement. The large spike in my progress I think I have independently confirmed was a direct result from the diet/5-HTP.

My work schedule has been sporadic because I had an 8 day, 9-5 training session to become a industry related certified inspector. This course was horribly boring and with such mental strain of trying to absorb so much information, being in a classroom environment, tired from the new baby and family in town and crappy diet I felt wrecked by the third day. on the fourth day at lunch I took a 5-HTP and the rest of the afternoon I felt so calm and able to focus, I was able to work independently on course work while still listening to the instructor. The brain chatter had quit and I was very in tune with my tasks. At the end of this course we took a practice exam, so knowing that the effects of the 5-HTP will wear off if I take it frequently, I did not take it again until the eighth day the morning of the exam. The entire exam I was more focused than normal and was able to stay calm and true throughout the entire session, even with all the reading and jumping back and forth from paper test to computer PDF skimming, which is a recipe for disaster for me mentally.

Throughout the following week I continued to study without the 5-HTP. For my final exam I again took a 5-HTP the morning of for the morning session, and could feel it wearing off by the end of the first half. So while on my lunch break I took a second pill, which did not put me back to where I was before starting the morning session, but did calm me back down some, enough that I felt confident the second half of the exam would not be a struggle to focus. I think the best application for the 5-HTP is prior to a situation or day that I know I would normal begin to get anxiety, stress or lack of focus, such as long classroom days, flying, etc. But if I find myself in a situation where I am having a panic attack, I do not know that 5-HTP will be that effective, if at all. Luckily I have not had any in awhile. Also, to keep the limited effectiveness of the 5-HTP I will only be taking it the days I see that it could be most beneficial to try and maintain its impact. I would like to look into alternatives to 5-HTP (gingko, SAM-e, Garcinia Cambogia, Curcumin, Turmeric were some suggested supplements I found online) to see if I can get more effects, longer lasting, etc.

For now Ill continue going to the neurofeedback sessions and hoping for small improvements.

Let me know if you have any questions.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 8 1 2017

Todays sessions was just a normal neurofeedback session. There was no discussion of future plans or progress or anything like that.

My wife has been going to a therapist since shortly after having our baby girl, just from a little depression and anxiety from the drastic change in routine and new responsibilities. She was nervous about going ot see someone, but I reassured her that perfectly normal people can (and should) go to see a therapist to figure some stuff out. Anyways, I went with her to one of her sessions and figured I would see if this lady could recommend someone for depersonalization, childhood trauma, etc. My preface to all that was first explaining how I came to have DP, how Ive put up with it for so long and what Ive done to try and recover. This brought up the fact that I just went through a series of sessions with a psychologist and it went nowhere because he considered me to be fine since I was highly functioning and successful. Also I mentioned that everyone seems to be "familiar" with DP, then plug me into their general program and hope for results. My request was for her to recommend someone who will set objectives, pry into uncomfortable topics and cut the BS. She asked if I would consider going to her. She considered herself qualified because she has had episodes of DP/DR while raising her kids. I guess one of them had some serious medical issues and this was her stressor/trigger for DP/DR episodes.

Since insurance covers it, I am going to give her a few sessions and see what kind of path she lays out. My approach to this is going to be directing or forcing the conversation to suspected topics which I believe to be the roots of my childhood trauma and see what she can come up with for discussion, realization, treatment, etc. Different than the last guy, as soon as I feel like she doesnt really have a hold of what shes doing Ill continue looking and find someone else.

Getting a therapist was a recommendation of the holistic treatment office I have been attending, which they did recommend a therapist. When I tried to contact the therapist and schedule an after hours or weekend appointment, I was directed to another therapist by the receptionist (never actually conversing with a therapist), and while bouncing me around they never responded to any of my questions about DP experience, typical treatments or anything, they only wanted to hurry up and schedule me. Maybe they were trying to get me into the office to discuss, but I stopped pursuing and began searching on my own.

Hopefully tracking all this stuff is good for someone at some point, with not a single response, comment or question. Oh well.


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## mana_war (Jul 3, 2014)

joshua9578 said:


> Session 8 1 2017
> 
> Todays sessions was just a normal neurofeedback session. There was no discussion of future plans or progress or anything like that.
> 
> ...


Did it work bro?


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

What are you asking exactly mana_war? The therapy? I have only been to one session focused on DP so far and have only really laid out a life timeline for her, which has given her a bunch of topics to come back and discuss later on. She recommended I track and write down dreams that I can remember and my feelings before, during and after my sessions with her. She also brought up bloodwork/supplements, which I discussed what I have been doing so far and she recommended rechecking B/D vitamins and testosterone.

Neurofeedback continues. According to the data they showed me I have improved. I dont know that I feel what I should according to the data, but I havent had panic attacks anymore. I did find that 5-HTP has the most impact of anything so far, but improvements are temporary. That will be my next pursuit is nootropics, but havent really had a chance to dig into them.

Let me know if that answers your question. i know I left it pretty vague.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Session 8 7 2017

Today was a typical neurofeedback and physical therapy session. As I said before, no real next step in place so just kind of showing up and going through the motions. Ill bring it up again in a week or so to see if I can get some sort of path forward from them.

When speaking with my therapist over the weekend she recommended I get some bloodwork done specifically for vitamin B, D and testosterone. I told her I have already had this done at the doctors office so I will be sharing those results with her. She recommended I switch from pill form B12 to shot, but when I mentioned it to my doctor she said it is patient preference and everyone is different there is not necessarily one better or worse.

The therapist also asked that I start writing down dreams that I remember and my feelings before, during and after my sessions with her. I told her that my perception and description of my feelings is not very good or detailed (DP), which she said is fine. Through practicing I guess it can get better.

So far the therapist seems more goal or objective driven than before so so far so good I guess. No major break throughs on anything, just laying out a life timeline for her. I wont be going into specifics on therapy discussions, just techniques and/or recommendations.

Let me know if you guys have any questions.


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## WithYourSigh (Nov 25, 2012)

joshua9578 said:


> Session 8 7 2017
> 
> Today was a typical neurofeedback and physical therapy session. As I said before, no real next step in place so just kind of showing up and going through the motions. Ill bring it up again in a week or so to see if I can get some sort of path forward from them.
> 
> ...


Joshua, I would like to thank you for sharing a detailed -- albeit incomplete -- account of your neurofeedback therapy. I am curious as to the final outcome.


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## joshua9578 (Nov 25, 2010)

Being located in Houston, TX I was flooded (for a second time) by Hurricane Harvey Aug 17th. I have since relocated to SE Michigan where I am from.

I have only contacted the office once to confirm the brand of 5-HTP they had me on during the "cleanse diet" and they did not seem upset that I was leaving. Unfortunately I think my asking and wanting to understand the program and be more involved in the treatment was received as an inconvenience to the staff.

Since being in michigan I have not found another facility to begin neurofeedback again. I would like to look into a home setup with remote professional guidance. I do believe in the potential of the technology.

There is a therapist that I have been seeing, just to get back on the horse. She seems as qualified as anybody to provide "treatment". Its hard if near impossible to find anyone that can say they have a patient story of depersonalization recovery.

I have also started using CBD oil, which has helped with anxiety/stress, but does not lead to respersonalization necessarily.

What portion of my summary do you consider incomplete? If there is something specific I could provide you let me know. I know I am not a journalist, but tried to share my experience as much as I conveniently could.


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