# L-Glycine trial



## Lost-in-Space (Jan 26, 2008)

I was talking to Dr. Simeon the other day. She is recommending to her DP patients that they try an approach that is being used for some patients with schizophrenia, that is L-Glycine powder. This is a sweet tasting, harmless amino acid. She says that we should take L-Glycine 3 times a day dissolved in water or juice. This is how you should figure out the size of the dose: Multiply your body weight times .121 grams. So if you weigh 150 pounds, each dose should be 18.15 grams. One teaspoon (use a standard measuring teaspoon) of L-Glycine 100% USP powder is 4.46 grams. So a single dose for a 150 pound person would be about 4 teaspoons. This is quite a dose. From what I've read about amino acids; you should take it on an empty stomach because amino acids compete with each other to cross the blood brain barrier. She said that we should try this for 6 weeks.

You can get 1 pound bottles of Pharmaceutical Grade (USP) "NOW" brand L-Glycine, on sale, at Vitacart.com I don't know how long the sale will last.

If you want to read some technical articles on this approach, go to http://www.Pubmed.gov and search under "Glycine schizophrenia"

A few weeks ago in the March 23, 2008 issue of the New York Times Magazine, there was a very interesting article "Practicing Patients" by Thomas Goetz. It was about a website designed to help patients with specific diseases to gather and structure information relevant to their conditions. We should do this for DP. If you are interested, I can e-mail it to you. Or maybe it is on the NYT website.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

From Pubmed, one of many abstracts I can only vaguely understand.



> *Novartis Found Symp. 2008;289:4-16; discussion 17-22, 87-93.
> Phenomenology, aetiology and treatment of schizophrenia.*
> 
> *Javitt DC.
> ...


Is this an ongoing trial now at Mt. Sinai? This is extremely complex, I don't understand much of it, but I find it odd that a protein supplement taken orally would affect DP/DR? *Comfortably Numb are you anywhere?*

Did Dr. Simeon actually state this is an ongoing research trial -- double blind, etc? This indicates it is a preclinical trial in schizophrenia.

Well, I'm not expert at this level. Curious how this pans out.
I wish more folks would comment. Is Dr. Simeon asking for research subjects for an official study?

Thanks,
D


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

This is truly odd. This stuff is protein powder. I look it up on a vitamin site and it says:


> L-Glycine, or glycine, is a nonessential amino acid due to the body's ability to manufacture glycine from serine. However, glycine is also taken in through a healthy diet of meat, fish, dairy and legumes. Glycine is considered the simplest amino acid in the body and has many important roles.
> 
> Glycine is a neurotransmitter in the central nervous system and of major importance to the creation of protein, peptides, creatine, purines, bile salts, glycogen, hemoglobin, ATP, nucleic acids, porphyrins, glutathione, glucose, and other amino acids. Glycine is a water-soluble protein amino acid that displays anti-inflammatory, antispastic, and antipsychotic activity.
> 
> ...


Could you explain Dr. Simeon's reasoning behind the use of this? Interesting that it clozapine and L-glycine combined make individuals with schizophrenia worse?

ACH, this is beyond me. I'm not a chemist that's for certain.


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## Lost-in-Space (Jan 26, 2008)

Dreamer,
Thank-you for finding out about the problem of combining Glycine with Clozapine. I did not know this. This also brings up the issue of the use of the phenothiazine tranquilizers (Such as Thorazine, Mellaril, Haldol, Stelazine, etc.) for treating DP. In one paper that I read, it said that it is well known that these worsen DP. I never read that anywhere else. I for one, got much worse after being "treated" with heigh doses of Mellaril.

I didn't talk with Dr. Simeon for very long, but it seems that this is just a highly informal trial. Heigh doses of L-Glycine are being tried on schizophrenics to try to alleviate their "negative" symtoms that do not respond to the standard drug treatments. The "negative" symtoms are considered social withdrawal, apathy etc. (I think) I don't think there is any experience with L-Glycine and DP yet.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

Wow, yes. Years back, I actually agreed to try some of the older anti-psychotics (tranquilizers really) and they made my DP/DR HORRENDOUS. And have found others with similar experiences.

I read somewhere else that yes, this would help with certain symptoms of schizophrenia (and you found it is the 'negative' ones) and is also used to treat anxiety.

It seems this is really just informal as it has little risk -- unless someone is on an anti-psychotic! Well, I'm stumped. Thank you for bringing this up.

I'm ... a tad sus, or just, well not thrilled. :?

Note, I recall some people (a few I think) who HAVE had some positive relief on antipsychotics, but I'd gather it's due to the anti-anxiety effect. Personally my help with Klonopin/clonazepam, and Lamictal/lamotrigine (both anti-seizure/anti-anxiety, and Lamictal -- mood stabilizing) have been the best choice for me. Granted in a higher dose with 6mg Klonopin. But these have really helped.

And I know a number of people who on such meds are DP/DR free. And they aren't schizophrenic. They are anxious people.

Hmmmm......

But then what do I know? Brain chemistry is so damned complex, and then add the genetic components and it's off the charts of my comprehension.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

L-glycine appears to be a partial nmda receptor agonist. A NMDA receptor agonist was tried by some doctor (the name of the doctor and the drug escapes me right now) and i don't think it worked at all. NMDA agonists are neurotoxic and analeptic not to mention a whole other host of problems with any drug like this. Thats why they are very rarely used i think the drug that escapes my memory is used to treat some kind of physical illness.

NMDA antagonists such as ketamine, dextromethorphan and phencyclidine (pcp) on the other hand are neuroprotective to a certain point. But they can cause neurological problems if taken at high doses and especially if used on a regular basis. Not to mention the fact that these drugs would be awful for dp/dr.

From what ive read since L-glycine is a partial NMDA agonist it does not have the highely neurotoxic effects of a full agonist. But im not really sure on this because they are coming up with drugs that actually act as glycine/NMDA antagonists to help prevent brain damage from strokes, traumatic brain injury, pain and convulsions. So it could actually be neurotoxic and it appears to be in high doses anyway. It's all abit contradictory and im not in the best mood to decipher all this.

I doubt it would help dp/dr at all in any case. Dp/dr is nothing like schizophrenia if this stuff does actually help schizophrenia. I think dr.simeon is just throwing something out there to see if it will work.


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