# Visual symtoms reserch



## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

For those of you that have "visual snow", "visual stactic" and a sensitivity to flouresent lights or just artificial lights in general where things look brighter to you or dimmer or with different or weird contrasts or just look plain different then it did before, but not the symtom of "seeing in frames" please decribe to me how these sysmtoms came on and if it was after smoking marijuana, taking another drug or from something els. thanks, this will help my reserch greatly.


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## UltraRobbie (Nov 27, 2010)

For me they just literally appeared one day or I just suddenly noticed them. I honestly don't pay attention to them any more really. I do get more DR in florescent lights and some other lights too. I also do get weird contrasts as well, but I think that may just be us over-analysing the situations possibly.


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

My DP was NOT from smoking pot. I belive chemically, stress hormones play a big part. I was tormented and crying and hysterical every day for 2 years.

Always had floaters. They have got worse with DP. But are getting a bit better now that I am.

Visual snow.. I only noticed I had this after finding it on the internet and thinking, 'Whats that..?' So I guess its in the realms of normal.

Flickering in peripheral vision. This I noticed after my second ever migraine with aura and this was just after the DP hit really bad. It has eased sightly, but gets worse on days where I lie in, am tired, or the DP is bad again. I think its my peripheral vision being ultra sensitive.. because floresant lights flicker and so do TV screens, like im a fly or something!

Now I have a bright spot in vision.. Ive yet to work out what that is!

Inablity to focus on patterns and words.. they jump about and disappear. I think this is why I and so many others find the supermarket a very scary place. Too much visual stimuli and I always get to the checkout feeling nausious.


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

UltraRobbie said:


> For me they just literally appeared one day or I just suddenly noticed them. I honestly don't pay attention to them any more really. I do get more DR in florescent lights and some other lights too. I also do get weird contrasts as well, but I think that may just be us over-analysing the situations possibly.


So you never did any drugs or were in a very stressful or anxiety provoking event in your life?


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

I went to a festival on my own with significant social anxiety problems (low self-esteem and obsessive thoughts). I had always gone there to do drugs, but this year my friends couldn't come so I went on my own. All my previous experiences of the festival had been positive. Usually I had a sort of magical time, where I escaped reality and my emotional pain and felt a deep sense of joy and well-being (albeit short lived). This time however, things were very very very different.

My DP started after having a painfully hellish trip for about 4 days. For most of the time I was on ketamine (2 grams in total over 3 days). I also smoked marijuana throughout the festival and at one point I took another drug (that was new to me) that I can't exactly remember. It was either 2C-B or 2C-I. I'm thinking it was 2C-B. Anyway, when I took the 2C-B and before I had come up on it, I did a huge line of ketamine. When I woke up from the "k-hole" I was in the most troubling mental state of my life. The experience I can only liken to what a person with DID might experience. I was a COMPLETELY different person. My face felt different, I was a different ethnicity, was from a different place in the world. It was absolutely fucking crazy. On the last day I took 1 gram of mephedrone.

Because I was so absolutely fucked off of my face for the entire time, and in a truly nightmarish state of paranoia (I felt worthless. I thought everyone hated me / wanted to kill me.), it is hard for me to say when the visual disturbances started but I am pretty sure that it started around the time I started to feel emotionally numb / disconnected.

Now, I am hypersensitive to bright lights. If I am out on the street at night, all street lights will be glaringly bright but my visual acuity will be extremely poor. Generally, my vision has worsened since the event / trauma.

That was, by far, the worst decision I ever made. I still beat myself up for it to this day as it has utterly ruined my life.


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

never_giving_up said:


> I went to a festival on my own with significant social anxiety problems (low self-esteem and obsessive thoughts). I had always gone there to do drugs, but this year my friends couldn't come so I went on my own. All my previous experiences of the festival had been positive. Usually I had a sort of magical time, where I escaped reality and my emotional pain and felt a deep sense of joy and well-being (albeit short lived). This time however, things were very very very different.
> 
> My DP started after having a painfully hellish trip for about 4 days. For most of the time I was on ketamine (2 grams in total over 3 days). I also smoked marijuana throughout the festival and at one point I took another drug (that was new to me) that I can't exactly remember. It was either 2C-B or 2C-I. I'm thinking it was 2C-B. Anyway, when I took the 2C-B and before I had come up on it, I did a huge line of ketamine. When I woke up from the "k-hole" I was in the most troubling mental state of my life. The experience I can only liken to what a person with DID might experience. I was a COMPLETELY different person. My face felt different, I was a different ethnicity, was from a different place in the world. It was absolutely fucking crazy. On the last day I took 1 gram of mephedrone.
> 
> ...


We all make mistakes sometimes man even big one's that's life. I used to beat my self up for being so stupid to smoke something I didn't even know what was in it at the time but you can't keep doing that, Dp feeds on your hatred of your self and your own anxiety over the situation. I'm not cured yet but I can tell you when I stoped beating my self up over my stupid dission and killed the anxiety the DP did ease up some.

about the visual symtoms thanks for sharing I'm working up a theory on this based on every one's answers so that maybe I might have something that can target these symtoms more directly.


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

Had visual snow/static much prior to depersonalization, which gradually worstened. Never did drugs of any kind, never been on any sort of psychotropic drugs. I remember when young and interested in astronomy, those snows and statics were bothering me a lot when observing stars through my telescope. They bother me now taking some of them as organels when making obserations on a microscope, having to switch to phase contrast so that I can notice the not so evident details.

I know that clonazepam was used to treat it, and has been known to make a difference, funny that clonazepam also makes a differences with depersonalization for those who have tried it.


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

ohwell said:


> Had visual snow/static much prior to depersonalization, which gradually worstened. Never did drugs of any kind, never been on any sort of psychotropic drugs. I remember when young and interested in astronomy, those snows and statics were bothering me a lot when observing stars through my telescope. They bother me now taking some of them as organels when making obserations on a microscope, having to switch to phase contrast so that I can notice the not so evident details.
> 
> I know that clonazepam was used to treat it, and has been known to make a difference, funny that clonazepam also makes a differences with depersonalization for those who have tried it.


do you know if clonazepam is the only benzo that has shown effectivness in treating sysmtoms of DP/DR or are there others?


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

Oh yeah, about the visual snow. I had started to get visual snow a few years before I go DP after experimenting with MDMA, marijuana and LSA (naturally occurring psychedelic compound that is chemically similar to LSD).

After having been off drugs now for about 6 months, I have noticed no change the visual snow. My vision still feels very fucked. I can only hope it goes back to normal with time.


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> So you never did any drugs or were in a very stressful or anxiety provoking event in your life?


Ive smoked about half a joint in my life, about 4 years ago so its not drugs, no way for me. Stress yes.

When you mention contrast, yes thats also something ive noticed. Its like everythings really artificial. Not nice. Like you say, 'Just not like it was before'

When my Dp first came on, it was the DR i ultimatly noticed first. Everything just didnt look 'real' not in the lsightest bit. So near, I could see my hand touching it but it seemed so far away. Like a hologram. I know you all relate, its just the best way I can describe it. I noticed the flickering too. The other visual phenomina i noticed later.

Hope this helps.


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## El Uvajo ♥ (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm sensitive to light & I guess I've got visual snow. It doesn't look like snow as I've heard people describe it. It's more like a grainy vision, with grains that moves. A lot. I smoke, but I haven't noticed any connection between smoking & my problems with neither DR/DP or more specificly the grains. It came during a smoke-break. For me, one day it was just there. It came all at once, didn't sneak up on me. I had a shitty time & there it was, probably as a result to stress. Afterwards it has developed to become even more grainy & it moves 'wilder' now than before. But no pot connection I'd say.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

An image of "visual snow"


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## scienceguy (Jan 8, 2011)

never_giving_up said:


> An image of "visual snow"


very interesting, all these answers give me more ideas but at the same time confuse me more. I was trying to connect these symtom specifically to some reserch that one of my professors pulled up for me. It was pointing tords the mechnisms in which canabnoids cause visual snow (yes it actually did use the word visual snow in the report) and sensitivty to light. in the study it say's it's because they act directly on canibinoid receptors found in the retina and interfear with the signal passing from there to the optic nerve. but considering how atleast half of you have got this symtom with out pot. more reaserch is needed.


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> do you know if clonazepam is the only benzo that has shown effectivness in treating sysmtoms of DP/DR or are there others?


I don't know, but it is protocol to use it.
Actually, I think that the visual snow is there for everyone, they just can't percieve them. I remember finding in the past materials linking it with anxiety disorders. That makes it logical, Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis under psychological stress release hormones and neurohormones (some of them neutransmetters at the same time) which increase the sensibility to sight, as an amplifier. And with any amplifiers the noises are amplified too. The flattening effect of depersonalization on our senses inhibit perception, and the ratio of noise vs perception is highered.

Clonazepam, by reducing the level of stress would act on the Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis, probably why it improves both dp and visual snow at the same time.


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## Fluke93 (Nov 2, 2010)

Strange ive had visual snow all my life even before DP/DR. I thought it was normal lol...


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

scienceguy said:


> very interesting, all these answers give me more ideas but at the same time confuse me more. I was trying to connect these symtom specifically to some reserch that one of my professors pulled up for me. It was pointing tords the mechnisms in which canabnoids cause visual snow (yes it actually did use the word visual snow in the report) and sensitivty to light. in the study it say's it's because they act directly on canibinoid receptors found in the retina and interfear with the signal passing from there to the optic nerve. but considering how atleast half of you have got this symtom with out pot. more reaserch is needed.


I still reckon (just my hunch) that even the visual sensitivity is due to chemicals in the brain; neuro-transmitters. Is that obvious stuff? It was my hunch even before I knew I had DP. Migraine seems to cause peremenant light sensitivity and im not sure why.


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

Fluke said:


> Strange ive had visual snow all my life even before DP/DR. I thought it was normal lol...


Me too! It is normal! I ask all my healthy friends and they say, 'yeah, why?'

When you have DP its like your body is focusing way too much on you and your inner functions/symtoms. I admit some people have its worse than others but for many of us, like myself, its a case of either noticing it, or realting it to a medical problem and therefore labelling it as so.


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## dreamsofsomeday (Mar 10, 2011)

I've had visual snow my entire life.

Fluorescent lights, however, always make my derealization one hundred times worse. It's really annoying to go into a store and just feel horrible and not yourself at all.
I also get these weird things every once in a while that seem to move inward toward themselves, but I've never related them to DR. Maybe they're some sort of floaters or something.

Darkness always seems the best







.


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

I also have floaters and visual snow and light sensitivity.

Some people believe it is something that happens after drugs but I didn't do drugs. You can get this from straight up anxiety.

And also, being DP's, your in a state of hyper awareness right? That's just what I think all this visual stuff is about.


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## CoolCroatian (Jul 20, 2011)

HPPD.
Maybe there's a connection...


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## Facet (Oct 2, 2011)

Fluke said:


> Strange ive had visual snow all my life even before DP/DR. I thought it was normal lol...


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## Facet (Oct 2, 2011)

Me as well.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

the visual static snow, bright ights thing is actually, a natural/common thing that "normal" people get too.....


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

kate_edwin said:


> the visual static snow, bright ights thing is actually, a natural/common thing that "normal" people get too.....


Exactly, and then add our heightened state of awareness and raised adrenaline levels and there you have it....visual snow


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

you know, that static and floaters, those are both things that can and do happen in "normal" "average" people too.............


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## Alexraff (Nov 6, 2011)

scienceguy said:


> For those of you that have "visual snow", "visual stactic" and a sensitivity to flouresent lights or just artificial lights in general where things look brighter to you or dimmer or with different or weird contrasts or just look plain different then it did before, but not the symtom of "seeing in frames" please decribe to me how these sysmtoms came on and if it was after smoking marijuana, taking another drug or from something els. thanks, this will help my reserch greatly.


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## Alexraff (Nov 6, 2011)

Hi I was doxy cycline for a infection for around a week. I was also quite stressed and worried to. It suddenly happened one night, static vision. I thought it was side effects to drug as had few alcoholic drinks with the drug. First 2-3 months it was just static, hard to see in the dark with the odd headache, Then next couple of months I noticed I was very sensitive to artificial light mainly. Now last month I have noticed black dots and black smudges that move around my eye. More noticeable against light colours. I don't no if they are called floaters? I sometimes find it hard to focus and think it gets worse when tired, and when I read I notice black line in between the text lines. I am very worried. Is there any form of treatment. Like to help read or for artificial light???


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## Alexraff (Nov 6, 2011)

Sorry what is this dp/dr???


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## rightwrong99 (Apr 17, 2011)

My "visual snow" went away after I started taking Lamictal.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

nycall21 said:


> My "visual snow" went away after I started taking Lamictal.


Wow. A drug that works. Lamictal is lamatrigine which is used to treat epilepsy. I assume it does so by calming the nervous system somewhat.
Maybe visual snow is a symptom of hyper excited little neurons, dendrites, axons, and all that other stuff up there.
Lamictal is supposed to have a fairly benign side effect profile. I think it is also generic.
Do you have to take it several times a day? May I ask what does you found to be theraputic?


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## LogLady (Oct 17, 2011)

From what I can tell, my visual problems manifested during my extreme high after ingesting a pot infused brownie (with really no prior experience with pot). During the high I became incredibly sensitive to all light, to the point where it was really overwhelming, my vision got patchy (like revealing itself in patterns across my field of view), my depth perception was altered, and additionally it kind of felt like being close to blackout drunk. This was over two years ago, and here are a list of all of my symptoms since:

- feeling as if I never came down from the high
- extreme light sensitivity and feeling of overstimulation that is overwhelming (I can really relate to the "supermarket experience" some suffers refer to)
- depth perception that seems unreal, sometimes two-dimensional, and really just incorrect
- the "dolly zoom" effect
- feeling slightly zoomed in all of the time, like my field of vision is slightly in front of my body (the orientation of my body seems ambiguous based on my vision)
- field of vision "bounces" when I take steps, as if stuttering with every step
- often when I try to focus on objects I feel as if I am rather looking "through" them, and it's like my eyes are constantly trying to adjust to focus.
- reading is very difficult, the contrast between characters and the page seems to be overwhelming, and I the focusing issue is terrible with words.

hope this helps, and I appreciate you gathering information on this!


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## toshibatelly (Sep 13, 2011)

I get flashing lights and bright coloured spots in my field of vision, as well as regular floaters (black dots); sometimes the bright coloured things are brought on by looking at a lightbulb or suddenly subjecting my eyes to a lot of light (e.g. switching on a TV in a darkened room) but often they are completely random.

I don't think they are correlated with my DP/anxiety, I notice them more when I'm stressed but I've had them for a long time, probably since before I had my first panic attack.

BTW I wear glasses if that could make any difference.


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## Timer (Feb 10, 2011)

LogLady said:


> From what I can tell, my visual problems manifested during my extreme high after ingesting a pot infused brownie (with really no prior experience with pot). During the high I became incredibly sensitive to all light, to the point where it was really overwhelming, my vision got patchy (like revealing itself in patterns across my field of view), my depth perception was altered, and additionally it kind of felt like being close to blackout drunk. This was over two years ago, and here are a list of all of my symptoms since:
> 
> - feeling as if I never came down from the high
> - extreme light sensitivity and feeling of overstimulation that is overwhelming (I can really relate to the "supermarket experience" some suffers refer to)
> ...


My visual symptoms are almost identical to some of these and I feel you have explained them well, esp the field of vision bouncing.

Have you tried anything to clear this up? Medication etc?


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

[quote name='Timer' timestamp='1320684541' post='243668']
My visual symptoms are almost identical to some of these and I feel you have explained them well, esp the field of vision bouncing.

Have you tried anything to clear this up? Medication etc?
[/quote

The ocular vestibular system is so complex. Cannabis fried my system pretty good. I had the bouncing and rolling and loss of motion/framing symptoms. They did resolve over time, or they mostly did.
It is sometimes hard to remember normal.
http://www.sightstreet.com/Content/OpthalmicLibrary/neu_vertigo_csro1020.htm


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## noname (Sep 23, 2008)

> My "visual snow" went away after I started taking Lamictal.


You a fucking lucker

its as if I say DP went away after I take paxil


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## rightwrong99 (Apr 17, 2011)

noname said:


> You a fucking lucker
> 
> its as if I say DP went away after I take paxil


No... Im dead serious. Look at all my other posts, Id have no reason to lie about that. But visual snow going away doesn't mean DP is gone. I think its far more complex than that. I think our brains all wired the wrong way. Our ability to integrate sensory experiences of ourselves and world are disturbed which creates feeling of DP. 
WHY did it make it go away? I have no idea whatsoever. Maybe its a coincidence that it went away a week after I started the Lamictal.

And to whoever asked a few posts back.. I take 100mg once a day. But Im considering raising my dose to see if it has any more positive effects. The temporal lobe definitely has something to do with DP.


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## LogLady (Oct 17, 2011)

Timer said:


> My visual symptoms are almost identical to some of these and I feel you have explained them well, esp the field of vision bouncing.
> 
> Have you tried anything to clear this up? Medication etc?


Hey Timer,

Sorry for the late response. Haven't been checking back with the board too much. Been keeping myself busy working on my health and trying (more like struggling) to keep my head in a positive place. I saw your response to my post in the visual symptoms research article and I have only been given some supplements that are a step towards antidepressants (5htp, neuroreplete). However, I haven't tried actual antidepressants yet. I'm also being treated for a potential gut imbalance that may be part of it, and more explanation for that can be found in my story topic. For that I've been on some medication but it hasn't had an effect really. So far nothing I've tried has addressed the visual issue. Basically I'm doing everything I can do promote my health and I've been pursuing different avenues in terms of practitioners. A psychotherapist didn't have much for me so I will probably try a psychiatrist next even though I'd rather not take antidepressants. I'm also going to go see an eye neurologist as soon as I get a few more appointments for my gut issue out of the way. I don't know what it's been like for you, but the longer I've had the symptoms the worse they've become it seems. I had to drop out of school because it was getting so bad that I could barely do the readings. I'll keep in touch, and I hope to hear back from you! Feel free to shoot me a message.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

newyork said:


> No... Im dead serious. Look at all my other posts, Id have no reason to lie about that. But visual snow going away doesn't mean DP is gone. I think its far more complex than that. I think our brains all wired the wrong way. Our ability to integrate sensory experiences of ourselves and world are disturbed which creates feeling of DP.
> WHY did it make it go away? I have no idea whatsoever. Maybe its a coincidence that it went away a week after I started the Lamictal.
> 
> And to whoever asked a few posts back.. I take 100mg once a day. But Im considering raising my dose to see if it has any more positive effects. The temporal lobe definitely has something to do with DP.


Thanks for sharing the dosage. It was I who asked. And, you know what you are talking about. I know I had a temporal lobe seizure as a teen. The seizure screwed up my vestibular system, and gave my a mild form of palatal myoclonus. (spasms which cause ear pressure, clicking/popping). And, I was on a couple of meds that significantly lowered my seizure threshold (imiprimine and navane), and I was having deja vu's like crazy, as well as other epileptic type aura. So, I started taking lamictal and my ear symptoms have improved significantly. And, I am only 10 days in and am still taking 25 mg. And, my major depression was a function of that seizure, as depression and temporal lobe epilepsy share a common underlying pathology. So lamictal is approved for treating depression in bipolar illness, but some small clinical trials have shown it can be effective for treatment resistant uni polar depression. And, I was very depressed when I started taking the lamictal, and already I feel 200% better.
And, maybe it is all coincidental, but so is life.


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## Davidm (May 15, 2010)

i think the gist of this post might be something known as Opthalmic Migraines.


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## toshibatelly (Sep 13, 2011)

Davidm said:


> i think the gist of this post might be something known as Opthalmic Migraines.


I have often wondered whether a lot of chronic depersonalization episodes could be explained by painless migraines? There is certainly an overlap in symptoms between DPD and such migraines, esp. visual auras.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

http://books.google.com/books?id=wqlOa_UaO7MC&pg=PA471&dq=migraine+as+epileptic+release&hl=en&ei=XvvXTsTlM4SAgweIjbX1Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CEoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=migraine%20as%20epileptic%20release&f=false

Migraine and Epilepsy. What's similar, and what's different.


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## svdomenech27 (Jan 1, 2012)

\\


toshibatelly said:


> I have often wondered whether a lot of chronic depersonalization episodes could be explained by painless migraines? There is certainly an overlap in symptoms between DPD and such migraines, esp. visual auras.


This is an interesting theory because I was diagnosed with painless migranes and I suffer from derealization, not so much depersonalization. At a certain time everyday I would get the feeling like I was going to pass out and I would feel this creeping sensation from the back of my neck to the top of my head. I would also feel tingling on my face. I got really scared due to the feeling that I was going to black out. Also felt like I couldn't catch my breath in the most extremem cases. My neurologist conducted a 72 hour EEG and did an MRI both of which I am waiting to get the result of to rule out seizures. The doc said his theory is that I am having painless migrains and prescribed topomax at a very low dose. I haven't taken it yet because I am waiting on the results of the EEG and MRI first. These feelings have sort of gone away on their own though. Plus I have Sjogren's Syndrome, an autoimmune disorder that I discovered I had around the time of all this. Needless to say all this was overwhelming, I literally thought I was going to die.

Suddenly one day even though all my physical symptoms of Sjogren's have started to subside on their own and the "painless migraine" symptoms have all but subsided I noticed the feelings of derealization and like there was something wrong with my eye sight. Nothing seems quite real, and I keep feeling like I can't get a good look at things although I can see fine, very strange.It almost seems like I just can't process what I'm seeing, I had this feeling on and off a few months ago as well but very mildly. Went to the eye doc and was told that my eyes have gotten slightly worse over the past couple of months. I have big floaters in my vision. Going to an optomoligist this week at the recommendation of my Rheumatoid doc to make sure the autoimmune disorder isn't destroying my sight. Now that I have seen all these posts about derealization/depersonalization effecting the eyes it seems like this is more likely the cause of my problems.

Has anyone every taken topomax for derealization/depersonalization? I wonder if my diagnosis really turns out to be painless migraines if taking the topomax will help with the drealization part? I feel like mine is related to the symptoms I described to the neurologist. I also have a constant hissing sound in my ears.


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## svdomenech27 (Jan 1, 2012)

svdomenech27 said:


> \\
> 
> This is an interesting theory because I was diagnosed with painless migranes and I suffer from derealization, not so much depersonalization. At a certain time everyday I would get the feeling like I was going to pass out and I would feel this creeping sensation from the back of my neck to the top of my head. I would also feel tingling on my face. I got really scared due to the feeling that I was going to black out. Also felt like I couldn't catch my breath in the most extremem cases. My neurologist conducted a 72 hour EEG and did an MRI both of which I am waiting to get the result of to rule out seizures. The doc said his theory is that I am having painless migrains and prescribed topomax at a very low dose. I haven't taken it yet because I am waiting on the results of the EEG and MRI first. These feelings have sort of gone away on their own though. Plus I have Sjogren's Syndrome, an autoimmune disorder that I discovered I had around the time of all this. Needless to say all this was overwhelming, I literally thought I was going to die.
> 
> ...


BTW I meant to say that I went to the optometrist initially for my eye exam and now I'm going to an actual MD (optomolagist)to make sure nothing more serious is wrong.


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