# Not even sure if this is DR anymore



## hanniballexster (Jun 13, 2010)

I don't have DP (I realie most of you guys do) "only" DR... or so I thought. I assume it is DR because I feel unreal... derealization.

However, I do not feel numb. I feel really freaked out I will live in a dream world forever and physically really really tired, but I do not feel "numb" or detached from myself at all. I feel that the external world is strange and distorted, as if my brain is damaged, but my brain and identity itself remain intact.

For this reason I have been spending as much time as I can sleeping, because, aside from a few really weird dreams, I'd rather be asleep. I feel like I am in a dream, I feel groggy and not clear headed or withit, sort of dazed the way someone in shock would be, except all the time. However, no, i don't feel numb, although I am really obsessive asking friends if I am brain damaged, if it will leave, etc...

not even sure if this is DR anymore. Aside from some panic attacks (which were triggered by actually not being able to take deep breaths- i got bad bronchitis which triggered them off, my panic attacks have been better for a long time now, almost completely gone) I don't feel anxious about life in general, just the idea that I am brain damaged and will be "dazed and confused" for the rest of my life. I already know that my IQ has taken a huge hit- I used to have a great memory, and now I can barely remember a single thing, no energy, just want to sleep (not from depression, just feel so tired, etc). How do I know this is really DR?

I also still laugh and chuckle at things... I still feel like me, but just like my brain has been damaged, like I have been lobotomized, and it happened very suddenly following a head injury (which was never medically addressed).

So who knows? Whatever it is, I am sick of it so much. But the more I think about it, my shrink's belief that is is a result of anxiety seems weird. I am less anxious NOW than I have ever been in my life. I mean... EVER. Aside from moving to permamenent housing soon 9which will be a minor stress I guess) and worrying about the DR almost constantly... I'm not stressed out about anything. The panic attacks (that's what people are calling them) are when i start to feel short of breath and gasp and feel like I can't get enough air... but that IS a scary sensation and I do have a history of repeating anemias which cause me to gasp, plus I just got over bronchitis so my "shortness of breath" lately might not be anxiety related at all (though it can induce anxiety).

I just don't want to assume I have DR when I don't. I am not depressed, my OCD is under control and my PTSD still bothers me but I have learned to handle it. basically having DR right now as a result of anxiety makes no sense, especially when I have been diagnosed by biopsy with severeal autoimmune disorders dating back to childhood, etc...

I have a feeling that if I could get all my medical files, highlight all the diagnoses over the years and give them to my GP she might be willing to look at the DR (whatever it is) and consider it might be something more than anxiety (I doubt it is, I got panic attacks- very severe panic attacks repeatedly every day when I was 11 due to stress, and I never suffered DP or DR during those early panic attacks, etc).

Just weird is all. Feels like I am overly drugged, more than anything. If anyoone has ever had an endoscopy where you're awake from it but drugged so you won't pull the tube out of your throat, it feels like that... just completely drugged to hell, dazed and very, very tired and hazy. Dreamlike too, of course, but how do I know for certain this is DR?


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

Alex,

Everything u described...the hazy, tired, fatigue, dreamy-ness, drugged beyond belief feelings...I have them ALL! I've only had DP/DR for 7 months, so I commend you for putting up with everything for as long as you have. Just felt like responding, because honestly, you described these feelings/sensations better than I ever could.


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## feministcat (May 4, 2010)

I relate so much to what you've said. I also had a head injury and have some other medical issues on top of that. (Involves my hormones.) I think so many of us on here have multiple issues going on and it is so very difficult to figure out what is wrong. It is SOOOOOOO frusterating at times, because I feel like the doctors should have answers for us. I grew up thinking they knew everything, but it has come to my attention that there is still so very little we know about our bodies and about our existence. I think that with multiple health issues and a history of bad anxiety and panic attacks it is easy for DP/DR to develop. When you are under that much stress, I think DP/DR (or any kind of disassociation) steps in. I think it takes form in similar but different ways for everyone depending on many things such as neuro chemistry, stress, and our individual ways in which we cope with things. There are so many factors. It sounds like you are definitely experiencing disassociation and the anxiety that goes along with it. I understand it feeling frusterating that they label it as "anxiety" because it feels like something else. For me, anxiety involves having panic attacks because that is what my history with anxiety has been. But now, panic attacks aren't the same. I have different symptoms that are more like DP/DR attacks.. my doctor says it is just anxiety finding new forms of expressing itself. Great huh? This bitch can mutate! Anyway, I just wanted to say that I understand your frusteration. I think it is important to see different types of doctors for the different health issues and if you aren't comfortable or don't agree with one of your doctors, see a different one. (That is if you have insurance that allows it.) I also think that we have to find some level of acceptance that there is not going to be answers to all these questions. That is hard for me, because I want answers and I will keep talking to my doctors but part of me knows that there isn't going to be the "AHA" moment I keep wishing for that will explain all these symptoms. I have multiple health issues, and DP/DR is part of that. I think that is probably true for many of us.


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## hanniballexster (Jun 13, 2010)

insaticiable said:


> Alex,
> 
> Everything u described...the hazy, tired, fatigue, dreamy-ness, drugged beyond belief feelings...I have them ALL! I've only had DP/DR for 7 months, so I commend you for putting up with everything for as long as you have. Just felt like responding, because honestly, you described these feelings/sensations better than I ever could.


I think you could describe them, its just really hard when you feel so drugged. It feels like your mind, your intelligence, is wading through a trench of tar. I keep stuttering, forgetting words, drooling... this from someone who a mere 10 years ago graduated with honors and had the highest english score in my high school in 23 years (according to my english teacher). Now I can barely remember anything, I can stare at a clock and I have to look at it for a few minutes for the time to "reach my brain", basic math equations (the basic multiplication table... gone). I was almost on TV at 11 for a spelling bee thing... now I am squinting, making typos constantly, making mistakes constantly. I taught myself to read before I was 3, and now... good luck trying to read a book. I stumble and walk around and have even walked into glass walls/doors. I probably look drunk or on drugs. Maybe my shrink or Gp think I am on street drugs (I'm not)

So I don't think I explained it better than you ever could, give yourself some credit. Whatever this crap is, it really messes up our ability to think. me, I am pretty sure I am physically brain damaged. It's getting progressively worse, and my limbs are going weak, getting crawling, burning, sensations....and lately, most common is really, really bad headaches (always got headaches, these are really bad).
Blah.


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## hanniballexster (Jun 13, 2010)

feministcat said:


> I relate so much to what you've said. I also had a head injury and have some other medical issues on top of that. (Involves my hormones.) I think so many of us on here have multiple issues going on and it is so very difficult to figure out what is wrong. It is SOOOOOOO frusterating at times, because I feel like the doctors should have answers for us. I grew up thinking they knew everything, but it has come to my attention that there is still so very little we know about our bodies and about our existence. I think that with multiple health issues and a history of bad anxiety and panic attacks it is easy for DP/DR to develop. When you are under that much stress, I think DP/DR (or any kind of disassociation) steps in. I think it takes form in similar but different ways for everyone depending on many things such as neuro chemistry, stress, and our individual ways in which we cope with things. There are so many factors. It sounds like you are definitely experiencing disassociation and the anxiety that goes along with it. I understand it feeling frusterating that they label it as "anxiety" because it feels like something else. For me, anxiety involves having panic attacks because that is what my history with anxiety has been. But now, panic attacks aren't the same. I have different symptoms that are more like DP/DR attacks.. my doctor says it is just anxiety finding new forms of expressing itself. Great huh? This bitch can mutate! Anyway, I just wanted to say that I understand your frusteration. I think it is important to see different types of doctors for the different health issues and if you aren't comfortable or don't agree with one of your doctors, see a different one. (That is if you have insurance that allows it.) I also think that we have to find some level of acceptance that there is not going to be answers to all these questions. That is hard for me, because I want answers and I will keep talking to my doctors but part of me knows that there isn't going to be the "AHA" moment I keep wishing for that will explain all these symptoms. I have multiple health issues, and DP/DR is part of that. I think that is probably true for many of us.


yeah, when you have multiple health issues, it complicates things. I don't think DP/DR is necessarily always anxiety or dissociation though 9i think it can be, but not always)- it could also be a sign of a brain tumor, for instance, or pernicious anemia can cause dementia- I have a feeling that I am going to be sent to a hemotologist before a neurologist because of all my anemias, but some sort of anemias are genetic and recur and can cause neurological problems.

I still wish I had the money to see a diagnostician like House (from the TV show)- I'd keep paying money until he (or she) figured out the cause and cured it. But most of us don't have the money, and the medical field doesn't have the docs to do this.

Hell, i never went to medical school but was interested in it as a little kid.

If you're hormones are involved, that could concievably cause some of your symptoms. I'm not sure what sort of hormone disorder you have, but since hormones are transported by the blood, a blood disorder could make it worse... long spiel, I have to stop sometimes (OCD fact fetish as my friend calls it). if you pm me what your hormone disorder is, I could maybe find out some info for you 9I get tired easily). I know that if the hormones are out of balance, depending on what they are, that can lead to exhaustion, depression and fatigue all by itself- also some hormone disorders can be caused by organic malformations that can be corrected... ahhh, too damn tired, sorry.

Alex


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## littlehannahx (Sep 14, 2010)

hanniballexster said:


> I think you could describe them, its just really hard when you feel so drugged. It feels like your mind, your intelligence, is wading through a trench of tar. I keep stuttering, forgetting words, drooling... this from someone who a mere 10 years ago graduated with honors and had the highest english score in my high school in 23 years (according to my english teacher). Now I can barely remember anything, I can stare at a clock and I have to look at it for a few minutes for the time to "reach my brain", basic math equations (the basic multiplication table... gone). I was almost on TV at 11 for a spelling bee thing... now I am squinting, making typos constantly, making mistakes constantly. I taught myself to read before I was 3, and now... good luck trying to read a book.


this sounds exactly how i am most of the itmes ive just no control < such a good desripton as well thought id comment and let you know you relly are not alone on that its good for me to know im not either i guess


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## kaitlyn_b (Jun 9, 2010)

I really like your description of DR; unfortunately I can totally relate! I have all of these symptoms and constantly try to put them into words and descriptions for pdocs and tdocs. Its never ending. I feel like I want to give up a lot of the time because I think this is how my life is going to be forever. But then, I look around and most of my DR is gone. Now I just feel worried, scared, tired etc. Like Im tainted forever because of this bs. I love to sleep too! My favorite time is right before bed on a Friday night. I feel good then, because I know I am about to fall asleep and that I don’t have to wake up for work. This is never who I used to be. Im about to throw all of my meds out the window and go at it alone. They aren’t fixing it, so why bother with the freakin side effects!


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## Dyna (May 13, 2010)

Hi hanniballexster, did you ever have any neurological work up done? EEG or MRI perhaps. My main issue s DR as opposed to DP and I too feel unbelieveably tired, dreamlike adn foggy all the time. Thanks, Dyna


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## razer777 (Jun 28, 2010)

This constant worry that you have brain damage is enough anxiety to keep the DR cycle going.


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## Minerva8979 (Jan 30, 2010)

I have DR but not much DP now, after a few months. I don't really feel numb, just totally derealized, it's more disorienting than numbing. Everyone is different, our symptoms are unique, so I still think you have DR.lol


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## hanniballexster (Jun 13, 2010)

Minerva8979 said:


> I have DR but not much DP now, after a few months. I don't really feel numb, just totally derealized, it's more disorienting than numbing. Everyone is different, our symptoms are unique, so I still think you have DR.lol


My shrink doesnt think I have DR (I recently posted about that)... he thinks its from being overly drugged on benzos for well over 2 years (before that Iw as in paxil withdrawal and felt strange and then right onto benzos for panic attacks... yes, I USED to get bad panic attacks, the ones I have had lately have been more episodes of gasping... had a bad one about a week ago. Now I am being weaned off the clonazepam .5 mg a month, so this might go away. My shrink said my symptoms (what I described above) techincally don`t fit DR, so maybe a lot of us think we have DR, and we really are just drugged to hell on antidepressants and benzos... antidepressant and benzo withdrawal can cause the drugged feeling, as can BEING on them in the first place.

I don`t want my original panic attacks (which were really bad) to come back, but if they do, I guess I am going to have to learn how to deal with them until they fade away because just masking them with benzos isn`t getting to the root of my problem, and the sense of unreality I feel on benzos (if thats what it is, which my shrink is convinced of now) is not the way I want to spend the rest of my life.

Ahh, hell... rock and a hard place. I used to get near constant severe panic attacks (lost about 25 pounds from panic alone in about a month and a half between stopping the paxil and going into withdrawal and starting the clonazepam)...

But anyway, apparently what I have described above isn`t classic DR according to my shrink (who is an anxiety specialist)- just because a person feels unreal or reamy, doesn`t mean they have derealization apparently... DR is something quite different (too tired to explain all he told me)... just that I explained the symptoms I more or less listed here, and he was certain it was that I was stoned from being on benzos for too long....

So... yeah.... I guess that`s it. For those that have these symptoms that aren`t on benzos or antidepressants or aren`t withdrawing from benzos or antidepressants (withdrawal can last long after you stop taking the final dose of whatever medication you`re titrating off from- for instance, my old GP told me that withdrawal rom paxil, which can cause feelings of dreaminess, can last well over 18 months, but long before that time, about 22 or 3 months after I stopped the paxil completely, I was having more panic attacks from paxil withdrawal, and the benzo was started... so in all likelihood this is all med related, according to my shrink. I just have to get off the benzo, withdraw (it can take 12 months or longer to withdraw even after you wean yourself totally off).

Blah. Oh yeah... maybe for those that aren`t on any benzos or any psych meds, this would be DR, but apparently what I listed ISN`T DR according to my shrink, it`s benzo intoxicationétoxicity (for me)... he`s 99.9% convinced of that fact.

Which makes me feel optimistic, but I also know how severe my panic was before this started. Hopefully, though, the paxil withdrawal is gone (been WAY over 2 years for that one) and if I wean off this slowly I will feel good again. Taking a tranq to numb severe panic isn`t doing me any good, I am not dealing with the root problem, just masking it, and the mask- the sense of not being real- is pretty damn shitty.

Its only day 3 of me titrating off my clonazepam (.5 mg a month, I`ll be off by mid Jan 2011, and may have withdrawal effects for a full 12 months or perhaps longer even after that... so yeah.

In short, if I could go back ten years to when I was 18 and having panic attacks, I would never have taken paxil (that drug made me crazy, it made me hyper as hell, which mimicked bipolar, but I am not bipolar- then I got a bipolar diagnosis, was put on lithium and a bunch of other crap, basically psych meds have been wreaking havoc with my brain for the last 10 years. PRN ativan is okay for short term use for severe panic episodes, but my advice is steer clear of psychotropics unless you truly are bipolar or schizophrenic or extremely clinically depressed.

Also, 10 years ago (late 90s, early 2000`s a lot less was known about benzo and the newer SSRI side effects and withdrawal syndromes... maybe that`s why the rate of `DR`` seems to be so much higher now than it was a decade or 15 years ago.

Take care. Alex


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

hanniballexster said:


> yeah, when you have multiple health issues, it complicates things. I don't think DP/DR is necessarily always anxiety or dissociation though 9i think it can be, but not always)- it could also be a sign of a brain tumor, for instance, or pernicious anemia can cause dementia- I have a feeling that I am going to be sent to a hemotologist before a neurologist because of all my anemias, but some sort of anemias are genetic and recur and can cause neurological problems.
> 
> I still wish I had the money to see a diagnostician like House (from the TV show)- I'd keep paying money until he (or she) figured out the cause and cured it. But most of us don't have the money, and the medical field doesn't have the docs to do this.
> 
> ...


Hi, been reading a few of the posts on here and i too have developed many medical problems which i belive are the cause for rather than the symptom of my DP.
I too are interested in medicine and science, and will never take no for an answer! i suppose thats my problem!
I was very healthy all my 21 years of life and do not suffer with anxiety, although i was in a bad bad relationship for two years before my DP and illness began.
I just want to give some consolation to you. I had a head injury about 10 years ago and did worry about this (You worry about everything when youre ill i suppose) but my MRI brain scan showed up completly normal. Ive seen about 10 different doctors. Four of them mentioned that they think it was stress related but gave me no further explaination. I was tested for underactive tyroid, anemia, blood disorders, auto immune conditions, lyme desease, glandula fever (i had migraine and fever when my DP came on). I also had my heart and neck scanned (to check for lack of oxygen to brain) and ALL came back NEGATIVE. I am the picture of health and so probably are you!
My last idea is adrenal fatigue as i feel that hormone loop is affected. I belive that this causes a drop in the levels of seretonin in the brain which would explain my migraine and DP. I am very fatigued midday, but livlier at night, another indication. I belive they are all related. I dont think we have 'brain desease' atall. I wish you the best of luck to get back to good health and i hope this helps.


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

kaitlyn_b said:


> I really like your description of DR; unfortunately I can totally relate! I have all of these symptoms and constantly try to put them into words and descriptions for pdocs and tdocs. Its never ending. I feel like I want to give up a lot of the time because I think this is how my life is going to be forever. But then, I look around and most of my DR is gone. Now I just feel worried, scared, tired etc. Like Im tainted forever because of this bs. I love to sleep too! My favorite time is right before bed on a Friday night. I feel good then, because I know I am about to fall asleep and that I don't have to wake up for work. This is never who I used to be. Im about to throw all of my meds out the window and go at it alone. They aren't fixing it, so why bother with the freakin side effects!


I relate to everything you say. I might as well have written it myself!


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

hanniballexster said:


> I don't have DP (I realie most of you guys do) "only" DR... or so I thought. I assume it is DR because I feel unreal... derealization.
> 
> However, I do not feel numb. I feel really freaked out I will live in a dream world forever and physically really really tired, but I do not feel "numb" or detached from myself at all. I feel that the external world is strange and distorted, as if my brain is damaged, but my brain and identity itself remain intact.
> 
> ...


Hi again, ive just read your original post and need to apologise for assuming you had no proven illness like myself! You know what im getting at though. And i understand how you feel. I too had DR rather than DP but then it got so bad i was scared to look in the mirror and a thought flickered accross my mind that i was dead and a ghost.. mad i know but this is when i decided i must have DP aswell. I am emotionally numb however. Sometimes i wonder if things are looking more real but decide im just getting used to it. I relate to your fraustration.


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