# God and mental illness



## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

I think on my darkest of days I and many others would have liked for there to have been a loving compassionate person, energy, force, etc to come down from the sky and whisk us away from all our troubles. On my worst days (that started my experience of DP) I was in a state of such anxiety, despair, and hopelessness that I simply layed down and hoped that some supernatural being would take pity on me and save me from myself. Of course this idea can be dangerous.

I've found that the more I look at this world the emptier it seems. I see endless suffering that grows worse each day. I may not experience this because I am priviledged but I notice horrible deaths resulting from starvation, disease, terrorist attacks, and other acts of violence. The more I notice this the more I feel disconnected and seperated from a world that seems to have no purpose. It is as if this world is a temporary station where we are whipped, prodded, insulted, and made to feel insecure and doubtful before we begin the slow process of dying.

So I look for an explanation for this suffering. I look to christianity, buddhism, hinduism, and other faiths. I analyze myself and my mind trying to intuit some sort of answer. But nothing comes. I'm reminded at the lack of compassion, purpose, and meaning that surrounds me. I see people grasping at sand trying to desperately make sense of chaos. They need the religion they believe in and I am willing to accept that as reasonable. However, I cant accept any of these religions. I can't get past the obvious delusions and lies that one must tell himself before surrendering himself to the supernatural.

I feel like I need to surrender myself to something that does not exist. Because it does not exist and it seems like a last line of defence then there is no hope. I have no faith in fake gods, and I have no faith in mental health institutions that don't understand this problem. I have no faith in a society that expects me to play by its rules, bite the bullet and become successful so I can buy lots of things and pretend to be happy. But I also have no faith in people who wear robes, study religious texts, and speak of false religious awakenings that play to their desire for happiness.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I am in agrement with you on a the way you feel about this world. I do not beleive you have read the bible. You can't make an informed decision about God without reading the bible. It also helps to have a guide to teach you the deeper subjects of the bible. If you have read the bible and didn't understaind it get a better translation and read it again. Try the new world translation it is easier to follow than the king james version. 
Also look up into the sky some night and see the proof of Gods existence.
How is it people can see mans design and know it is man design but when you see Gods magnificent design you hide in feer and say to yourself, that just is, there is no god?

I will admit that you need a little faith.


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## mulder (May 8, 2005)

Interesting. I was just wondering if I should post something about my experiences. I have not read this section of the forum really, so I don't know what people's views are on God round here, but I'm still pretty undecided myself.

I shall tell my story though, and post a link to the thread. LOSTONE, you should read it, you might be interested.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

Yeah, it would be interesting to see how anyone deals with this conundrum. It really is a very serious topic for me, for some reason it seems vital.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I would think that religin would be on the minds of everyone suffering from dp/dr. I think about it every day. My biggest question is how retards and crazys are suposed to follow bible teaching? I ask this because I fall into that catigory. Also I would like to know why it takes over 6,000 years to prove a point. Just end this sick world already! I've learned my lesson, don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad and never take LSD.


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

Maybe god IS mental illness


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

Lostone, your argument is awfully inconsistent.

You say that Scattered has to read the Bible before he can make a fair judgment on the existence or otherwise of God and on what kind of existence that is, _if_ it is. Presumably this is to have a more objective, rounded view of things, understanding the Christian belief before you reject it.

But then it follows from this that you should have to read all the major scriptures - the Qu'ran, the Torah and what have you - because there's no prior reasons to believe the Bible is more valid than them. Your attempt to seemingly help his objective flounders on the fact that it makes a presumption about the validity of the Christian Faith above all others.

Incidentally,



> Also I would like to know why it takes over 6,000 years to prove a point.


Even the most diehard Christians have abandoned the former dogma that the world's only 6,000 years old.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I am sorry if I sounded like a know it all. I must say I am not a baptized anything. If you feel I have been inconsistent than maybe thats why I am not baptized yet. 
I admit that I have read neither the Quran or Torah but maybe if someone came nocking at my door to offer me a copy I would take a look  . 
I have read into Islam,Judaism, Buhdisum, Hindu and even the book of the dead (when I was younger).I have even read a bit of anti Witness material. From what I gather I don't need to read the Quran or Torah because there teachings are false.

I understand there is a lot of hate out there for Jehovahs Witnesses.
This is one of the big points that tell me they are the true religin.
Joh 17:16 
Other scriptures 2ti 4:2, 4:3 Jas 4:4 1jo 5:19 *Mt 7:20*
The Witnesses fruits are the best in the world in my eyes.
The world is obviously against them therefor I beleive they are the truth.

As far as the world only existing for 6,000 years, Witnesses never beleived this. They do beleive however that humans have only existed for 6,000 years. Because we have no record of any human exsistance before 6,000 years ago, I think history is in alignment with the Witnesses.
The bible clearly dates the lineage of our race in the hebrew scriptures.

I personaly think that if Witnesses are not speaking the truth, than there is no truth.

Scattered I did wan't to apologize for the way I worded my response. I am suffering from dp/dr rember.


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

> From what I gather I don't need to read the Quran or Torah because there teachings are false.


That's precisely the point.

On the one hand you're saying to people "you can't claim Christianity is false without reading the Bible first to know what it's all about"; on the other you're telling us that you know Islam and Judaism to be false when you yourself haven't read their scriptures.

This is inconsistent and just double standards.



> Because we have no record of any human exsistance before 6,000 years ago, I think history is in alignment with the Witnesses.


 :shock:

There is a veritable mass of evidence of human existence from before 6,000 years ago. Honestly, this is no longer up for debate unless the Christians want us to believe that monkeys can construct pottery, small mud-brick houses, paint on cave walls or a whole array of other things.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> On the one hand you're saying to people "you can't claim Christianity is false without reading the Bible first to know what it's all about"; on the other you're telling us that you know Islam and Judaism to be false when you yourself haven't read their scriptures.
> 
> This is inconsistent and just double standards.
> 
> ...


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

The purpose of this thread was to state an idea and also to see how others deal with the issue of God. Obviously those who are religious have their faith and are able to answer the questions of their lives because of that. My problem is that I have no faith. I went to a christian school when I was young, read the bible and was constantly in that type of environment. I grew up, I questioned the teachings and lost my faith. However, I was never really a hardcore christian to begin with. It was something I learned from school and believed in because I feared hell. When I as able to look back on it it made no sense to me. This is not an issue of misunderstanding.

I'll admit that I haven't looked thoroughly into all of the major religions. It seems as if science makes the most sense, however this view of the world is the most depressing to me. Then DP comes along and is the ultimate leveler. Now I truely have no reason to believe in anything. Everything is up for grabs. I'd like to know how people in this situation have dealt with a lack of faith. People who have called out to God and found that he was not there to help. If you still have no faith, then how do you deal with this? If you have gained faith through this experience then how did that happen? Did anyone of you have religious experiences/awakenings?


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Scattered, 
To borrow a phrase from a character we seem to be mentioning on the forum alot lately, the Oracle, having faith is an awful lot like being in love. You either have it and you know it, or you dont. When your feeling it, you cant fathom life without it. When you dont have it, you cant see the sense in it. I tend to see that it creates mutually exclusive attitudes like this. I'm trying to bridge these two attitudes and bring a more balanced view of the natural and supernatural world into my life. I dont want to devalue a secular way of looking at things - it has its advantages. But I dont want to lose sight of shooting for ideals higher than myself or this world. The only way to understand it again, or to see if it has any value, is to pick "it", meaning faith, back up again, dust it off, and use it. Pray. And dont just ask God for things. Tell him what you are going to do for him, and why. Give him a day, try to follow his commandments for a day, tell him why, ask for his help, and at least just "pretend" to have faith for a day. The big problem is treating god like a slot machine. Put a prayer request in, pull the lever, get a jackpot. Most of the benefits of faith, both internal and external, come from when we actually put it into practice. Like I said, its like being in love. You either got it, or you have no clue what people are talking about.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

I've come to the point where praying seems to literally be an impossible action. There have been times when, in my mind, I have screamed "God help me" , but thats as close to prayer as I come. Prayer seems to be such a shallow and meaningless action. When I start to have any feelings of spirituality of even the vaguest nature, I question my motives first and my sanity second. I automatically realize that this is a condition that I create to make myself feel better. I try to latch on to even the simplest conceptions of God so that I won't have that feeling of hopelessness. Even the most general conception of God as an energy or force that might surround us tends to fall apart. Its a method or a tool of escaping reality, or thinking that if the shit really hit the fan an invisible man, energy, or force would come down and envelope me in love, kindness, and acceptance. I think about this sometimes but I always wake up and realize that I was caught in a daydream of my own making.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Scattered - I think the reason some of us aren't worthy of god/s attention is that we are utterly unable to fool ourself into believing in him/her/them/it, however dire our situation is. It's either that or we aren't asking/telling/praying in the _right way_. Believe me, like yourself, I've tried! At first I thought it was because, perhaps, god didn't actually exist, then I thought that, perhaps, I was spiritually void, but I came to realise that I was asking the _wrong questions_ in an _incorrect manner_ as deemed the correct protocol by god/s. It takes time to find your _path_ to god/s. So don't be afraid or ashamed if you find that _your path to god/s_ entertains sitting in a pile of someone elses shit with an orange stuffed in your mouth. It's just different for everyone. Much like the experience of taking LSD and seeing your friend turn into a monkey, you've either done it or you haven't got a clue what everyone else is talking about.

So whether attempting to pray to god/s/love forces/<insert as applicable> is a good thing or not is up to the individual. Harmless I guess. Just don't get carried away and try and fool yourself into thinking that you won't get burnt playing with matches. You have to somehow blindly _accept_ whichever version of god/s is preferable to you, and lay back and enjoy the action.



> From what I gather I don't need to read the Quran or Torah because there teachings are false


The.......mind.........truely.......boggles.

(Edited 213 times)


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

The torah better not be wrong if you're a Christian because that's where you get half your book from!

Just send us the thank you note anytime


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

> Just don't get carried away and try and fool yourself into thinking that you won't get burnt playing with matches.


Martin, God doesnt exist. There are no matches to get burnt _with_. You will send the same, meaningless prayer into the same, empty void, only to be met with a profoundly empty echo. And if you choose to live by the ten commandments for a day, perhaps a Sunday, you will make that empty prayer in a church surrounded by other people of faith, spend the rest of the day following the ten commandments, and then, aha, yes! You will indeed be burnt... For you will have lived a day for something other than yourself. And when the day is over, you will once again take up your old habits, and begin the cyclical existence you call life. Call this way of looking at it _Homeskooled's Wager_. If God doesnt exist, you cant lose.

Peace
Homeskooled

PS- The point of this post is not to seem witty, funny, or to score a debate point over the space-filler in our lives we call the Internet. It is to point out that you may feel that there is a void in your life *because there is a void.* Do not disregard this possibility. Apathy of the spirit is a hard thing to shake. But it clouds the intellect, until you cant imagine any other kind of existence. I dont want to debate the merit of this suggestion. You're old enough to know your own life and your choices better than anyone else possibly can, especially me. But you need to take a good hard look at your life, and choose a new path. I'm just pointing out a possible option.


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## Lilymoonchild (Jun 18, 2005)

I have spent most of my life fearing god and hell, and the parts of my life I haven't spent fearing, I've spent exploring (and fearing that I was exploring the wrong thing). My thoughts and ideas on god could take up pages upon pages, so I'll try to be brief here. Keep in mind also that this is simply my experience, and I'm not saying it's right for everyone.
I was raised religious, and my family is still very religious, so my leaving my religion causes a lot of issues with my family. But remaining in my religion would cause issues with myself. It's kind of a lose-lose situation. I think the idea of god expressed in my former religion contributed greatly to my dp. I also feel that God is the only way out of it.
Conclusions I've come to: 
There is a higher power of some sort. Whether that be God, energy, or simply our own subconscious minds, I know not. But I do know that when I have managed to tap into that power, I am a much happier and more at peace person when I'm there. But while it's a simple place to be, it's also very difficult. 
Sin doesn't exist. Assuming that there is a god, whatever our "pupose" for being here, learning and growth have a huge part of it. With learning comes mistakes. It's not "sin," it's experience.
Christianity is an extremely violent system all the way around, and I can't believe that a blood sacrifice was required to "atone for our sins."

Repeat Disclaimer: This is all my opinion, based on my own life experience. If your life experience tells you differently, feel free to share, but please don't discount mine.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> because there is a void


 :lol: Do you think? Alright then, I'll give it a go. Right then - now, which religion should I plump for ? And why?



> But it clouds the intellect


Well that's alright then, because you've told me time and time again that reason and intellect are faulty. Because they contradict religion (especially your one). Of course.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

I said that reason is imperfect. It is. It has severe limitations, even if you have an intellect as great as mine..... :wink:

It isnt faulty. It is a tool which should be used. But our reason doesnt have the capacity to answer all the questions we can ask. Its limited. It can usually answer "What" questions. "What are we made of ?" " What is here?" "What are Homeskooled and Martin always arguing about?". But it has a much harder time answering questions about intangibles. The "Why" questions. "Why were we made?" "Why are we here?" "Why are Homeskooled and Martin always arguing?". These mysteries are beyond the scope of human reason. You can either accept or reject the hypothesises put forth to answer those questions. The leap which is taken to accept the answer is called a leap of faith. Reason should guide that leap, but it will never be certain. Our reason cannot grasp something outside of our own, narrow human experience. But this is also why the longer one experiences a lack of spirituality, like a lack of anything else, such as happiness, the more clouded one's memory of them becomes. Now go spend a day doing good, darn you! (To answer your first question, I will not answer the why - the proof is in the pudding- my personal suggestion for "which" would be that you attend Mass at the London Oratory. Very Beautiful, very solemn.)

Peace
Homeskooled


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