# if this is all from emotional abuse then...



## broken3309 (Oct 23, 2012)

Why do people get it from antidepressant withdrawal?
From medications?
From weed?

Are these all triggers?


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

It's not all from emotional abuse. Emotional abuse is one cause but not the only cause.

I am so sick of this narrow-minded idiotic argument started by one arrogant troll who has nothing better to do with his day than to misguide people on a little forum on the Internet.

If anyone is reading this, do yourself a favour and avoid people who state that there is one cause for this and only one cause. YOU may not have got it that way, so use your head and do your own research. Drop this waste of time theory now unless there is a real, significant chance that you have DP from emotional abuse. Stop running around in circles.

Just... ridiculous.


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## broken3309 (Oct 23, 2012)

Susto, you know I agree with you on spiritual things. But it doesn't explain why people who have dp from antidepressant withdrawal have it...


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## broken3309 (Oct 23, 2012)

I was abused, so I can believe for myself.

I'm asking about others.


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## broken3309 (Oct 23, 2012)

In the same way harris harrington says weed is a trigger I'm wondering what other triggers there are.


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## broken3309 (Oct 23, 2012)

Seriously why can't you ever just answer my questions. Do you believe, since marijuana is a trigger, that there are other triggers (such as meds and withdrawal)?

Also, the reason I wanted you to message me and you never did..do you believe lyme disease has an emotional component to it?


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Susto said:


> It's been long that I know ALL people with DP/DR are sensitive and carry a great amount of emotional pain and fear within, this is Karma. This is not necessarily due to emotional abuse, empathetic people pick up energies of life easily, even from TV, I remember when I watched stories about diseases and murder and that would cause me anxiety, I would be afraid of getting some rare disease just by breathing air since as early as I can remeber, and also would fantasise and have nightmares about someone coming into my house and killing everyone. *It's the curse of seeing life as it is and dissociating from it to avoid the pain.*


Not really, no. This doesn't differ from the fact that DPd people think they're somehow closer to the truth of existence.


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Delicate said:


> It's not all from emotional abuse. Emotional abuse is one cause but not the only cause.
> 
> I am so sick of this narrow-minded idiotic argument started by one arrogant troll who has nothing better to do with his day than to misguide people on a little forum on the Internet.
> 
> ...


So you basically believe that *anxiety *(which is also based on emotional abuse and family problems by many studies)* causes DP* (which is highly related to emotional abuse by the most advanced studies on DP ) YET acquiring DP has nothing to do with emotional abuse?

lel


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

broken3309 said:


> Why do people get it from antidepressant withdrawal?
> From medications?
> From weed?
> 
> Are these all triggers?


Broken,

I have blocked off all other reponses here save Delicate's so I don't know what anyone else has said, LOL,

But it is known that there are many causes of DP/DR.

I saw a commercial for "Cymbalta" or something on TV used for diabetic neuropathy (in OLDER PEOPLE -- say 45-50+) -- nerve pain in the feet -- common in those who have diabetes. Side-effects, as usual include depression and suicidal thinking. Many other drugs do cause DP/DR in healthy people -- antibiotics, (minocycline has been written about it medical journals -- anti-acne med).

In these many cases a mentally well individual (of any personality type) can experience DP/DR ON the med, but the difference is he/she will feel better going off of it. And it NEVER lingers. However, over the years there have been a number of people here on the board who have had this from antibiotics, and yes LYME disease. Sometimes this may linger, but can vary from person to person. Weeks, months, but will resolve itself.

They are mentally well individuals. One woman here started a Lyme's Disease awareness group as a result, etc. There was also a woman here who had a psychotic depression as a young woman. Came from a very healthy family. Hospitalized 6 months. Got better. DP/DR and cutting behaviors remained for some time, finally the cutting. But when comparing herself to me she said I was SO anxious, and she wasn't. She is now a neuroscientist at Cambridge -- I kid you not. She has not had a recurrence of the depression or DP/DR, psychosis, etc. since to the best of my knowledge ... I'd say she is now 35+?

Also, children and adults experience DP/DR after the use of sodium pentothol for dental procedures. It can persist for shorter or longer times. Also, with anesthesia -- and these are indeed dissociative drugs.

I will say as always, we are each and every one of us unique individuals.

Somewhere I have a list of drugs (Rx and Rec) known to induce DP/DR in all manner of people -- it may be in my blog here.

It doesn't HELP if you have a predisposition to dissociate and then take these drugs. My gues is that can cause it to linger for longer periods.

Other individuals, such as myself, have no discernable drug trigger at all. None. Unless wants to count required vaccinations I had as an infant!

The pattern seems to be this starts predominantly in the teen years when major mental illnesses become full blown. So there is a clear pattern. When one's brain continues growing (*say really to age 15-25?*) it is more susceptible to various stressors (and that includes Rx and rec drugs.)

IMHO -- I'll find some references in medical resources.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

Broken, found my notes:

This is re: Cymbalta/an antidepressant used for many things: From RxList.com Very handy to see POTENTIAL side effects of many drugs:

WARNING
SUICIDAL THOUGHTS AND BEHAVIORS
Antidepressants increased the risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior in children, adolescents, and young adults in short-term studies. These studies did not show an increase in the risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior with antidepressant use in patients over age 24; there was a reduction in risk with antidepressant use in patients aged 65 and older [see WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS].
In patients of all ages who are started on antidepressant therapy, monitor closely for worsening, and for emergence of suicidal thoughts and behaviors. Advise families and caregivers of the need for close observation and communication with the prescriber [see WARNINGS AND PRECAUTIONS].
Cymbalta is not approved for use in pediatric patients [see Use in Specific Populations].

http://www.rxlist.com/cymbalta-drug.htm


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

*This is on Medscape. You need to register informally to access the
full article.*

*Medication-Associated Depersonalization Symptoms: Report of
Transient Depersonalization Symptoms Induced by Minocycline*

Philip R. Cohen, MD
*South Med J 97(1):70-73, 2004. � 2004 Lippincott*

Williams &
Wilkins

--------------------------------
Medications Associated with Depersonalization Symptoms
This table is at the end of the article, including a very detailed
bibliography.
(This includes both Rec drugs and Rx drugs. The article notes that
this induced DP is reversed when meds are discontinued. Obviously this
is not the case for everyone.)
Best,
D

*"Alcohol
Antihistamines
Antipsychotics
Anxiolytics - (Anti-anxiety medications)
Benzodiazepines
Caffeine
Carbamazepine
Fluoxetine
Fluphenazine
Hallucinogens
Indomethacin
LSD
Marijuana
Meta-chlorophenylpiperazine
Minocycline (this article)
Nitrazepam
Sodium pentothal*
-----------------
AND:
South Med J. 2004 Jan;97(1):70-3.
*Medication-associated depersonalization symptoms: report of transient depersonalization symptoms induced by minocycline.*
Cohen PR.
Source
University of Houston Health Center, *Department of Dermatology,* University of Texas-Houston Medical School, Houston, TX, USA. [email protected]

Abstract
Patients with depersonalization disorder experience episodes in which they have a feeling of detachment from themselves. Symptoms of depersonalization may occur in individuals who have other mental disorders, or who have various medical conditions, or who have taken certain medications.

A woman developed depersonalization symptoms after initiation of minocycline therapy. Her symptoms ceased after treatment was stopped and recurred when she restarted the drug.

Medications that have been associated with causing symptoms of depersonalization are presented and the postulated pathogenesis by which some of these drugs induced depersonalization symptoms is discussed. *Medication-associated depersonalization symptoms typically resolve once the inducing drug has been withdrawn.*
PMID:
14746427
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=minocycline+and+depersonalization


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Fearless said:


> LOL. A pill causes suicidal thinking? You never fail to amaze me Dreamer.
> 
> DpSelfFooling.Com


*Lariam*

"Neuropsychiatric effects are reported with mefloquine use. The FDA product guide states it can cause mental health problems, including anxiety, hallucinations, depression, unusual behavior, and suicidal ideations, among others" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefloquine

*The Dark Side of Larium*

"Last summer, four soldiers from Ft. Bragg were accused of killing their wives. Two of the men committed suicide, and the other two await trial. So many brutal crimes, so similar, so close in time - raised questions, and the army sent a team to investigate.

One possible suspect was mefloquine - brand name Lariam, an anti-malarial drug. It was invented by the U.S. Army and is routinely given to soldiers deployed overseas. In scientific terms, Lariam can cause neuropsychiatric adverse events. In plain language, it can make lose your mind...." - http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-538144.html

*Chemicals can be stronger than your will *...


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Yeah, because they totally monitored your brain and saw in which area are the suicide thoughts created and then they figured a side effect called suicide thinking. And none of this have nothing to do with person's own thinking. Sure.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2013)

I didn't think you cared what anyone else thought, Fearless. So why are you responding now.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2013)

Fearless said:


> because you're acting like a retarded. I answered this question about 10 times (you want me to post my PMs here?), but you keep coming up with it, instead of admitting that you're COWARD to face your real issues. Instead, you keep making these excuses.
> 
> "I know I been emotionally abused, I know it's probably the cause for my DP, but let's forget it and take a look at other explanations because I don't want to face my pains."
> 
> ...


Jesus, what a sicko


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Susto said:


> being sensitive and philosofical shit are very different from where i come from
> 
> Although I am closer to the truth and mysteries of existence than many people (",)


I see.
It's actually pretty funny how the whole "life is shit" or "pain of existence" people can be easily explained by developmental psychology.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Susto said:


> being sensitive and philosofical shit are very different from where i come from
> 
> Although I am closer to the truth and mysteries of existence than many people (",)


How are you? You are not. Just because you read some stuff about awareness doesn't make you any more conscious than anyone else, I used to think exactly the same.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Susto said:


> How would you know? You stopped meditating out of fear-based speculations, and you're now trapped in a mental abstract reality, lost in self-doubt. What the fuck do you know?
> 
> I been learning to do the opposite, just drop my fears and thoughts and simply meditate, and it's a profound experience, of self-discovery, Not saying I reached Samadhi or Kundalini, but If I keep my rhythm I will certainly get there.


There was no speculation about it. I came to a point at which I was about to let go of my identity and the fear that struck me in that moment was incomprehensible. I turned back because I was too scared, I have the balls to admit this.

I know that you are in a stage when you think spirituality = self-improvement, that you are somehow becoming 'better', that you are improving the 'skill' of meditation. Eventually you will realise that the end result of meditation is the end of the self. It is put plainly in various literature:-

_Are you willing to be sponged out, erased, cancelled,
made nothing?
Are you willing to be made nothing?
dipped into oblivion?
If not, you will never really change._

You think you are growing bigger and better and are learning more and more, but if you ever do self-inquiry you will eventually see all of this will be undone. All of your knowledge will be seen as pointless in the face of the void within. I wasn't willing to be made nothing. I dipped my head slightly into oblivion and the fear it put me in was indescribable.

I know.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Fearless said:


> It's your life.
> 
> what I know is that you guys are into spirituality right now, and not recovery.


Respectfully fearless, I agree that the theories you promote regarding emotional abuse and how it causes dissociation make perfect sense.

*BUT*

*I can't see where they apply to me personally*. I've watched Harris' program several times. *IF* I came from a family with a history of dysfunction, acting under the law of isolation and undermining my self-esteem, I would believe it applied to ME, but it doesn't, because I don't come from a family like that.

I even tried to do the 'As if letter' to my Mum and Dad. I didn't have anything to write to them, because I have no complaints.... so everything that he says doesn't apply to me. I don't need to 'stand up to them' because there is nothing to stand up about!

So the entire program I was listening and thinking 'I wish this applied to me, because then I could follow the advice properly', but it just doesn't.

Spirituality fucked me over. Not my parents.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Midnight said:


> Respectfully fearless, I agree that the theories you promote regarding emotional abuse and how it causes dissociation make perfect sense.
> 
> *BUT*
> 
> ...


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

Perhaps write a letter to Spirituality ...


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Fearless said:


> Ok Midnight I understand and respect what you say. Hope you'll find a solution.
> 
> I just write these down because there was a time when I believed something similar, and now I see how silly I was. Meditation can bring pain and fear up from the deep, and it can result in DP, still it has nothing to do with ego-loss. But I'ma stop buggin' you with this.
> 
> ps: one more thing. when you have a habit of dissociation, that goes together with a habit of "running away from thoughts". It means, if you have a fearful thought, you may try to "repress" it, try to not think about it. I can be about something really fearful, or something you think is fearful, doesn't matter. And if you had a fearful thought about spirituality, death, non-existence, etc.. which made you scared enough, you may tried to escape from that thought, leaving it unresolved, and still causing fear in you (and your feelings seemingly "confirm" it). Still, it doesn't has anything to do with "enlightenment", it's typical dissociation and emotional reasoning. Just had to write this down.


Yes, I see what you are saying.

I tried to think about what the mediation may have brought up, it felt like it was just fear, but I couldn't understand what the fear was about or where it came from....

Nothing I'm feeling makes any sense and I can't see a solution atm..


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Susto said:


> No. Your beliefs are just fear-based, you have no clue about what "nothingless" "void" "no-self" truely means as you have never experienced it. It's the ultimate goal of life, so you will have to go through it at some point when you decide to stop suffering and grow, you have no choice  You can either choose the easiest path, the Tao (path of least resistance), or you can choose the hard way
> 
> In my experience so far, meditation is absolutely self-improvement, becoming aware of my body, emotions, "repressed emotions" being revealed slowly, it's actually exciting to uncover more and more mysteries that were hidden deeply in my unconsciousness. It's doing the exactly opposite of DP, it's tunning in within myself, not dissociating but associating again


Associating with who?


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Susto said:


> With my Self and my emotions


What self are you referring to? Are the emotions really 'yours'? If you actually look inside and try to find the self you are talking about can you actually find it?


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2013)

Fearless said:


> because you're acting like a retarded. I answered this question about 10 times (you want me to post my PMs here?), but you keep coming up with it, instead of admitting that you're COWARD to face your real issues. Instead, you keep making these excuses.
> 
> "I know I been emotionally abused, I know it's probably the cause for my DP, but let's forget it and take a look at other explanations because I don't want to face my pains."
> 
> ...


Tone down your replies. I've had too many reports. I know where you're coming from but tone it down a bit. Not everyone can handle your "onslaught".

You're no king, nor is anyone here. We are living the same experience, just in different ways and even with different strengths of tone. You may have a "better way of doing it" but it does not merit a condescending tone.


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

administrator said:


> Tone down your replies. I've had too many reports. I know where you're coming from but tone it down a bit. Not everyone can handle your "onslaught".
> 
> You're no king, nor is anyone here. We are living the same experience, just in different ways and even with different strengths of tone. You may have a "better way of doing it" but it does not merit a condescending tone.


I'm sorry, but what's the block/ignore button then there for?
I'd rather block someone than whine to get him erased from a site.


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## broken3309 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dude this went way off topic


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## StartingOver (Dec 24, 2012)

I don't know why people still argue with this idiot.

Let alone keep taking his advice. Google is your encyclopedia, learn your problems and your resolution.

There are many sites which can help you find peace. Even on these forums If you look far enough.

Admins should take his advice by the way, It's not a bad one.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Fearless said:


> Ok Midnight I understand and respect what you say. Hope you'll find a solution.
> 
> I just write these down because there was a time when I believed something similar, and now I see how silly I was. Meditation can bring pain and fear up from the deep, and it can result in DP, still it has nothing to do with ego-loss. But I'ma stop buggin' you with this.
> 
> ps: one more thing. when you have a habit of dissociation, that goes together with a habit of "running away from thoughts". It means, if you have a fearful thought, you may try to "repress" it, try to not think about it. I can be about something really fearful, or something you think is fearful, doesn't matter. And if you had a fearful thought about spirituality, death, non-existence, etc.. which made you scared enough, you may tried to escape from that thought, leaving it unresolved, and still causing fear in you (and your feelings seemingly "confirm" it). Still, it doesn't has anything to do with "enlightenment", it's typical dissociation and emotional reasoning. Just had to write this down.


Well yes I never 'resolved' the fear of the void / unknown. How would I resolve it then do you think?


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