# Chronic Stress and Depression Damages the Brain



## GroupHug (Jul 6, 2012)

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/August/Depression-Stress-Damages-the-Brain/



> Yale University researchers found that chronic stress and depression can cause the brain to shrink and lead to emotional and mental degradation.
> 
> Scientists believe stress triggers a genetic switch. That switch then represses genes that are needed to form connections between brain cells, which can lead to the brain getting smaller.
> 
> ...


Decrease in cognition and emotion? On top of the depersonalization?









What do you think of this? Do you think the brain can heal from this damage? I mean....I hear people like Robert Whitaker express realistic optimism for the brains of people recovering from extreme mood states or from being harmed from psychotropic drugs on account of the neuroplasticity (ability to change) of the brain. Also, the increased risk of dementia later in life because of experiencing a depressive episode concerns me as well.

Not a religious man...but I pray the harm is not dramatic or irreversible.









edit: Err, this might be the wrong section to post in as it's not directly related to DP...though chronic stress is something I think everyone with DP has experienced and can without doubt relate to...so I hope it has at least some relevance.


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## shattered memories (Jul 19, 2012)

I think the human mind and brain is an extraordinary and resilient machine. I think the majority of our brains will rebalance in time considering the body seeks homeostasis


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## Linguos (Jan 12, 2012)

It's in the brain's nature to rewire itself for whatever it's habitually practicing, and as for the unpracticed things affected one wouldn't even notice. If this still bothers you that's the OCD of anxiety speaking.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Knowing how research works, they probably only used people with major depressive disorder, so this finding may or may not apply to people with depressive symptoms without a depressive disorder.

But sure stress hurts after a while. Keep in mind they also said this effect was genetic, sonit won't happen to everyone with a depressive disorder either


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## Fluke93 (Nov 2, 2010)

Heard about this alot on another forum. I don't really know the science behind it but theres a poster on there that keeps going on about it. In my opinion it would just cause more fear. I thought DP was to protect you from anything like that anyway?


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

The research with people is chronic anxiety and/or depression over years ... autopsy. Certain areas of the brain are actually measurably about 10% smaller - the hallmark of loss of neurons.

The research with rats, etc is causing depression via learned helplessness. Then dissect them and they see the same thing.

Another area is this Hippocampus. Ironically this is one area that actually can grow new neurons. However, in spite of that, this area suffers shrinkage.

The actual mechanism involved is simply overactivity. With high metabolic activity you need high 'supporting' systems. The chances of damage are greater. On the extreme there is major epilepsy. But chronic anxiety/depression isn't epilepsy. Nevertheless, it is high activity and prone to problems.

Does this scare us? Well, it isn't a happy thing. However, just learn to get calm. If you can't do this without learning techniques and 'attitude adjustments' (a very powerful tool), then it is best to use meds to quite things down until you can stay calm. Most people can do this. A few can't (just like a few have epilepsy or other conditions that require maintenance meds).

There are a lot of members whos DR/DP symptoms worsen with anxiety states. (I'm not one, but that seems to be the minority). This demonstrates chronic stress issues.

In the end, everyone is much happier and healthier when managing stress so that it is not chronically severe.

As far as being a protection mechanism (that old chestnut), it doesn't mean it is entirely successful. For example, stress shuts down the digestive system (so you have energy for fight/flight). But keeping the digestive system on low for days, weeks, months, &#8230; is not healthy.

Stress if fine. Chronic stress overloads all the protection mechanisms and you break down anyway.

Hope that helps...


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## Fluke93 (Nov 2, 2010)

Visual said:


> The research with people is chronic anxiety and/or depression over years ... autopsy. Certain areas of the brain are actually measurably about 10% smaller - the hallmark of loss of neurons.
> 
> The research with rats, etc is causing depression via learned helplessness. Then dissect them and they see the same thing.
> 
> ...


Interesting post Visual. Presumably these autopsys were done on suicide victims?


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Dp protects you against psyhological damage, not physical brain damage. Dp helps you survive the psychological trauma of car accident or assault, it can't stop physical genetic proceses


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## Fluke93 (Nov 2, 2010)

kate_edwin said:


> Dp protects you against psyhological damage, not physical brain damage. Dp helps you survive the psychological trauma of car accident or assault, it can't stop physical genetic proceses


Ah i see now.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

You have to give consent to donate your brain, dontusually have that with a suicide. They were probably people dx'd with depression who died of other causes


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Fluke said:


> Interesting post Visual. Presumably these autopsys were done on suicide victims?


Most died of 'natural causes' - if it were suicide, that would bias the studies to only those suicidal. Of course the rats did not 'check-out' on their own


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

_*Visual, I love your visual aids for these discussions, LOL.
There is some info missing here and again I am compelled to post.
Unfortunately there is again a lot of misinformation and confusion. And the media is always about 10 years behind in research information, even Scientific American, etc.*_

*#1.* *The source of brains for autopsy in the US is The Harvard Brain Bank. It also supplies brain tissue to other institutions worldwide. * http://www.brainbank.mclean.org (I'll correct that if it's wrong) This is an amazing facility. I learned about it at a NAMI Convention where after much thought, and talk with a MINISTER there (I am not spiritual but it gave me the creeps), I have donated MY brain to the bank -- but say I die in an auto accident and my brain is damaged, they can't use it. You essentially have to be in the hospital with an illness, dying, and willing to give your organs/brain at time of death and meet very specific criteria. A pathologist/surgeon has to be RIGHT THERE. It's like an organ transplant. But many plan ahead for this as I have.

*They collect both NORMAL brains and unhealthy brains. One must give permission before death with witnesses. If you commit suicide, it is unlikely your brain would be of use in a post mortem autopsy -- drug damage/trauma, etc. * Unfortunately they don't get enough normal brains for comparison, but as noted experiments in mice/rats, etc. yield similar results. Work with primates/cats/dogs (some of it makes me sad) also yield all sorts of info from obesity to anxiety to azlheimer's to parkinson's to schizophrenia, etc.

Some individuals who donate their brains have an existing condition. Others may have a family memeber (or a loved one) and feel compelled to help in research). As an individual w/DP/DR I have participated in three studies. (Filling out massive questionnnaires). I have also participated in one cancer and fatigue research project. I live near a large research hospital affiliated with a University.

*#2.* Observations on the brain are also done when a patient must have surgery (and they must be awake if possible and can respond to different probes and experience different sensations). So both mentally healthy patients with aneurysms, epilepsy treatment with electrical probes, even tinnitus can be "experimented" on if they give permission.

*#3.* Scans of all types are also done with HEALTHY controls vs. individuals with a brain disorder. fMRI, PET, SPECT, etc. You can observe size of brain areas on these scans and how they work.

The question is, is a small hippocampus say the CAUSE of a symptom, or is chronic stress the cause of the shrinkage, etc. There is some indication that those born with anxiety disorders and other mental illness were BORN with portions of the brain that have a predisposition to "go glitchy" ... in other words, we all don't have exactly the same "hardware", we don't all have the same "software", everyone has the occasional "crash" and others really need a new computer.

*I'm in the market for a hippocampus, some adrenal glands, and a few other brain parts ... price negotiable.







*

The longitudinal studies on football players (40 years +) have shown that those suffering mutliple concussions get depression, dementia, and also have a higher suidice rate. These individuals have agreed to be in lifelong studies (Many sports figures have helped contribute to these). Also veterans with PTSD are willing to donate their brains. But you don't get them until they die.

I am a brain donor. I want to help future generations. Unfortunately as with a transplant, the conditions must be just right.

Again, check out *http://www.brainbank.mclean.org * (Also, doctors at McLean are aware of DP/DR and are doing studies on that in relation to anxiety) There are some neat clips of tours of the brain bank, general information, etc. I forgot how many brains they have, but they have collect quite a few. HEALTHY and those with brain disorders.


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## Fluke93 (Nov 2, 2010)

I cant read this topic anymore. I was watching a documentary on suicide the other day and they decided to show someones skull being removed and then the brain. Was pretty disturbing..


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

*If you do NOTHING else, watch this brief video from The Harvard Brain Bank.

It has been in existence since 1978.*

http://www.mclean.harvard.edu/video/brainbank1/12.html


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

Fluke said:


> I cant read this topic anymore. I was watching a documentary on suicide the other day and they decided to show someones skull being removed and then the brain. Was pretty disturbing..


It is disturbing. It is the right of everyone to choose what they wish to do. I am an organ donor if I am in an auto accident as well. The brain is "ourselves" so it is scarier to think of donating it vs. one's heart, kindney, lung, etc. But this is the most valuable research we have. You can't poke around in a live person's head. You can't take pieces of it. You can't examine the brain in the way you can examine ALL OTHER ORGANS.

Again, we use animals for research, which also disturbs me. But if someone is willing to donate ... it is a lasting legacy.


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## GroupHug (Jul 6, 2012)

Fearless said:


> These theories will only have one result: gives you another way to fantasize about a simple anxiety symptom, therefore making you more stressed, therefore more DPd, and making you waste more time. You ALL know it.
> 
> But, everybody's own fundamental right to waste their time exactly the way he or she wants.


I admire your attitude in that it's true that obsessing over these negative things and letting yourself become anxious with massive amounts of worry will only prolong your DP and that not letting your mind succumb to stress is a major way to get over it, but I think you're being way too reactionary in your denial. Your flippant dismissal is well-intentioned, but I think misguided. If you would add valid skepticism to these findings or constructive criticism to the discussion (other than - "This is bullshit, stop worrying. Everything is fine."), I think more people would be open to your point of view.

Things aren't always peachy, but we do get a choice in how we react to bad news. We can accept harsh truths and move on with our lives, we can brood and obsess about them, or we could just live in blissful willful ignorance...but either way, reality doesn't bend to our perception of it.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2012)

Call me nuts, but I find something POSITIVE in all brain research. I find it fascinating.

I'll say it 100 times. I am a cancer survivor. I have the facts of the percentage of recurrence. They spell it out for you -- your oncologist/surgeon and 800 million doctors tell you, "We have NO guarantee the cancer won't come back" and they are correct -- it is a fact you live with. But interestingly enough, I DON'T focus on it. You learn to take one day at a time. It is more difficult for me to take my DP/DR "one day at a time" because there is no relief, it is 24/7, 365 days a year, in my dreams and has been for decades. My physical health now has returned to normal. (Well, not 100% due to oral medication).

But I have good days again. 2 years of surgery/recovery, etc., etc. and I'm fine again. I may get cancer in 2 years, but I can "let go of it" for now. I can't ever get out of my DP/DR state -- no matter what I have done. As a child, or as an adult.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Wow, this add new meaning to the phrase, "Banking Crisis"

Lets see &#8230; Blood bank, Sperm bank, The Harvard Brain Bank, &#8230; what will they think of next?




























Now if I could only find mine &#8230;


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## DougRyan25 (Aug 31, 2012)

Based on my experience, when the time I was so very stressed and depressed, I cannot think well and it comes in the point that I begun losing consciousness. When i visited my doctor,he said that I must take a break from my work so that my mind can rest. I have seen it clearly that once you are reigned over with too much stress and depression, there is a greater possibility that you can think erroneously. I have seen many people who became insane because of their unbearable problems. Maybe this could justify the saying that too much stress and depression can really damage a person's thought process.


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