# Does DP/DR matter?



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Let's assume you have the symptoms association with DP/DR. Most of us here are quite aware of what they are so let's not delve into the definition. Now apart from fear and anxiety, what is exactly wrong with the reality-altered-like symptoms of DP/DR? It seems to me the debilitating factors are not the symptoms of DP/DR, but rather anxiety and fear.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

Fear IS the problem for me. To me, DP = fear. And I am afraid of the fear. If I could become unafraid of the symptoms, particularly the fear - then I agree, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Either the problem would cease to exist, or it would be incorporated into my reality and I wouldn't notice.

Then again (for me anyway), this is like telling someone with a broken bone.........."so, if the bone isn't really broken, would it continue to be a problem?"


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm with sc.

It's like saying "how bad would Depression really be if it wasn't for all that misery we feel along with it?"

The DP experience was a self-annihilation terror - the "details" of the experience all added together to scream "you....are....not....real (or here, or awake, or alive, or sane, fill in the blank)." Point being, the fear/feeling of self-annihilation was probably what CREATED the dp, not the other way around.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

Yeah, I think so too.

I mean, the fear of self annihilation is a big issue. What could be a greater fear than the fear of living one's own death or disappearing?

Now that you have mentioned it, Janine, and from what youve told me some time ago, I figure that it is this exact fear of self annihilation that created all the symptoms that I have.

It is not exactly the fear of self annihilation, it is basically that I was already living a life that was nothing but emotional death and in addition self annihilation in every respect, and as a result it brought about dr.

I mean, with me it is not the fear of self dissipation, its just that I was already living and creating it for me.

I think I can describe it like you once did, Janine, and still be referring to myself when I say: The basic reason for the derealisation is that "I can't be me".


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

JAG said:


> Let's assume you have the symptoms association with DP/DR. Most of us here are quite aware of what they are so let's not delve into the definition. Now apart from fear and anxiety, what is exactly wrong with the reality-altered-like symptoms of DP/DR? It seems to me the debilitating factors are not the symptoms of DP/DR, but rather anxiety and fear.


No, I can't say that. The DP/DR themselves are incredibly disabling for me in and of themselves. And also, if I didn't have the damned symptoms, there wouldn't be something to be horrified about, IMHO.

Also, my overall mental health has changed over the years. These days, I posted somwhere else, I feel DP/DR (right now, this moment), and much despair. At this very moment I am not feeling anxiety. I'm feeling, hopelessness at what I have lost in my life.

But example. This summer I had a friend visiting, and we were getting ready (leisurely) to go to an Art Fair. I was excited about it, in a good mood. I had to go out to the car to get a map. When I opened the door to the ouside, I got slapped with heavy/duty DP/DR. I was angry really, not agitated, I said to myself, "Damn this. Walk to the car, walk to the car, walk to the car, get the map, get the map." The whole process seemed like it was taking an hour, and I forced myself (as I have done many times) to at least finish the task at hand.

I got the map and came back up to my apartment. When I was there I felt MANY emotions. Agitation, fear, disappointment, rage. I talked to my friend (who understands I "have problems") .... I "talked myself down". At the end of the whole episode. I was crying. I was crying about how much "not being here" has taken from my life. How going down to get a map in my car, I can be knocked out of the universe.

To me, the perceptual change is horrific, it is debilitating. The fear I have is that it won't go away, that I will be stuck feeling that awful, and the rage is that when the "bad" DP/DR goes away, then I'm stuck with my "everyday" chronic DP/DR and I'm not really living my life. Just existing.

My 2 miserable cents.
Best,
Crabby D


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## rob (Aug 22, 2004)

JAG

course it fugking matters - the symptoms are horrible - it's like having your life taken away - fear is secondary - it follows the illness

rob


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

I disagree. Fear/anxiety/panic is primary...dp/dr is secondary. Its a symptom of anxiety just like muscle tension and heart palpitations althought Id rather have those symptoms than dp/dr.

Joe


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

My two cents on that. I believe DP and anxiety clearly have a connection, what that is I'm not sure.

However, as a little girl, I could bring on DP/DR whenever I wanted. I started to focus on my body, thought existential thoughts, "Who am I? WHY am I? What is it like to be dead?" and waves of DP would come over me.... *but I wasn't afraid, as I was in control of the feelings*.

I forgot I could do this. Looking back on my childhood I had DP I could control, then DP/DR that I later interpreted as feeling ODD and I didn't feel like doing things because of it (more attached to depression), and finally DP OUT of my control, which is terrifying.

I also have anxiety and depression. But my complaint from the get-go, my most uncomfortable, scary, debilitating symptom is what I called "feeling weird" -- DP/DR.

I can have DP w/out feeling anxious, such as at this moment as I type this. I'm chronic DP/DR and NOT ANXIOUS. I can also be anxious and my DP/DR doesn't spike. Other times it does.

There is some connection, stress generally worsenes my baseline DP/DR, but I don't think we can summarily throw the baby out with the bathwater. There is an anxiety connection. DP doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Best,
D


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

It's a circle. Again, just talking about myself here. My theory being that I became afraid. Too afraid for my regular coping mechanisms. Those defenses broke down - leaving me with DP as my only survival option. 
DP and it's various sensations produce tremendous fear for me. That fear continues to feed the DP, which creates more fear, etc. 
Add to that the typical background stresses of life (i.e. the easy stuff), and I just go round and round...........


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

But here's a question... why aren't we all on an anxiety forum then? There are quite a few people who suffer from serious anxiety in various forms but DON'T have DP/DR.

When I've visited anxiety forums, I "don't fit in", few know what DP is.

That's why we have a DP forum. It is a unique experience. It's chronicity for us, etc. Why have a DP forum, if this is just anxiety?

I like what rob said, LOL.


> course it fugking matters


I agree! It is a hideous symptom that very few people fully understand. But I think we forget that we can all suffer from this in different ways. I feel great despair right now. Others are terribly fearful. Others have "adjusted" to it.
There is a spectrum here.
We're all.........for the 1,456,000,710th time....*UNIQUE*

Very Crabby Dreamer today,
Forgive


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

Dreamer wrote



> for the 1,456,000,710th time


Did you really count? And you are sure you did not make a mistake?


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

I know this isn't going to help at all, lol....and ultimately Dreamer's totally right - each of us is unique!

But...when I say something is rooted in fear or anxiety, that is NOT the same thing as "having anxiety" or being aware of fear at all....many depression states originate in fear - the fear CAUSES a certain mental response, that response triggers bio-chem changes and those changes in tandem with psychological defenses, produces what we call "the result' i.e., the symptom.

I am NOT saying this is the root cause for all dp - but for those of us who DO have a dp based/rooted in an unspoken terror of self-annihilation, the dp in THOSE cases would have been the Result of that fear state (whether we consciously recall such a fear or not)

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

Looks like this thread is going round in a circle too 

Isn't it possible there is a point for everyone, every single person out there, at which a DP-state would be entered? Some trauma or series of traumas, be it an actual physical situation i.e. drugs or a blow to the head, seeing something terrible happen......or actually just thinking your way into it, something somehow that causes the person to arrive at a place mentally that is simply untenable? A place where the old defenses just don't hold up anymore? 
The only logical solution, the only way to stay alive would be to remove yourself from the situation somehow. Dissociation provides a very effective way to do that. What's more, I honestly do believe that not only is there something that will push everybody into that place (though it is unique for each of us)...........but I also think nearly everyone has been there at least once by the time they reach old age. 
The reason we are stuck in it is related somehow to fear. Fear of the symptoms - which are artifacts of fear themselves. 
Why do some of us get stuck? As my Aunt Marie used to say (she was a nun) - beats the hell outa me.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

DP is fear... for me anyways. I honestly dont think it would be possible for me to feel DP without fear/panic. Even if its subconscious worry.. its always there. No DP couldn't exist without worry in my case.. but its impossible to seperate. I have to cure both my fear and DP.. living with just DP is not an option. I will always be afraid.

I see what you are saying with your post.. If we could just NOT be afraid of our altered sense of perception.. it would seem normal, and we would be normal. That is what DP is.. an obsessive fear that something around us has changed. Without the fear there wouldnt have been any DP to begin with.


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## Guest (Oct 19, 2004)

i might get attacked for this but i think that i coulsd actually talk for everyone when i say that the anxiety id definetly primary to the dr/dp. no doubt, when you really sit and think about it, it is primary...the dr/dp is the breaking point to when fear becomes too much, yet we get this constant state of anxiety...its crazy none the less, but the anxiety/fear is most definetly primary


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Well in my case maybe DP/DR has become ingrained in my personality or my perception of self. Not sure why. Maybe it has to do with going undiagnosed for so long. I definitely do have the symptoms, and was diagnosed one year ago by a psychiatrist who specializes in depersonalization disorder (there aren't many of those!).

I'm definitely not terrified of my DP. However I absolutely WAS terrified by the symptoms for about the first six years, so I am COMPLETELY aware what you guys are talking about when you talk about the horror of DP. I definitely don't doubt for a second you are terrified.

I've had the symptoms now for 24 years 24/7. I was so happy to find my so-called "disorder" had a name and that I'm not alone. But one difference I have noticed between a lot of you and myself is that I don't really fluctuate in and out of DP/DR. I have been DP/DR'd since it first started and it does not really go away (as far as I'm aware).

When I started my internet research I was not necessarily looking for a cure for the way I felt, because I had given up on such ideas. Instead I was looking for someone who understood how I felt from first hand experience. I was only looking for people who experienced life like me so I wouldn't feel so unique and alone. I never actually thought I'd find so many people with the symptoms nor find people talking about cures!

The most difficult time I've had with DP/DR, following the first six horrible years, has been accepting the fact that I experience the world so differently than so-called "normal" people.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2004)

What interests me is your apparent lack of fear. I am also a 24/7 DP kind of guy. But I am terrified 24/7 as well. 
Somehow I feel that if I lose my fear of the sensations, I would no longer be DP. Because like I said earlier, to me anyway DP = Fear.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

I still say anxiety is behind it all...every bit of it. When I read the posts on this board the only word that comes to mind is ANXIETY. I actually laugh when I read posts of people describing their mysterious "dp disease" sympotms which are nothing more than classic symptoms of anxiety. I think this whole board is a bunch of highly anxious people just like myself. People become accustomed to anxiety states. You can be chronically anxious and not even know it.

Joe


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

People here are in an anxiety state. Dp/dr pops up because of it then they become more upset and the anxiety increases along with the dp/dr. Im with Ashton that its nothing more than a primitive defense mechanism that becomes engaged during intolerable suffering. I have all the bizzare symptoms of dp/dr. The 2d,dark, corridor vision, ability to see all the debris on the inside of the my eye ball lenses, and the perception that im seeing my world from too far back in my head. Ive also come out of dp/dr when my anxiety,engaged fof state ended. It something that occurs during an anxiety state just like heart palpitations, or muscle tension. Nothing more, nothing less. Its not an illness and its nothing mysterious. Doctors that are researching it are just waisting alot of time and money. Anxiety is where they should direct their energy. A dp unit makes me laugh. I could care less about dp/dr. My main bitch is the anxiety. I just want to be able to relax like I was able to for the first 32 years of my life...before Klonopin.

Joe


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

Joe, _I _actually laugh at you telling me what I _really _have. You have no understanding about what depersonalization disorder is. It can certainly make one anxious to have to perform in world that has _suddenly become like a dream_, armed only with the momentum of a self that once was, but which now is just an _empty space_. It can certainly be depressing to watch your life drift by, un-lived.

Of course depersonalization can be primary, and probably is, for almost everybody on this forum. Anxiety and depression are much easier to understand, but people are here because those core symptoms of depersonalization (read them on the opening page if you are not sure what they are) _resonate _so deeply. They are here at dp selfhelp instead of anxiety selfhelp or depression selfhelp, because they felt a massive sense of relief when they found these facts of their _own existence _(the ones that make you laugh) not only defined, _finally_, but actually shared.

These facts, that you ridicule as ?mysterious,? ARE mysterious. (Again, if you?re not sure what they are, I refer you to the first page of this site) They are mysterious because they are hard to explain, hard to pin down. They are mysterious because there is barely a vocabulary that speaks to them--the words ?empty? ?unreal? etc. just don?t seem sufficient. They are mysterious because the only places one can find other than small circles (like this one) where people can actually understand the _impact _of these words, are in literature and philosophy. The are especially mysterious to a young person (the typical age on onset for this thing) who may be unsophisticated, and who only knows that their life is being disrupted.

This thing that doesn?t exist, this ?Mysterious? DP _is _indeed mysterious, because when that person, young or old, wanders into the office of some mental health so-called professional thinking ?my god I need help,? and tries to describe that their self and surroundings have become _unreal_, the odds are that they will face someone who won?t understand what they are talking about, won?t respond to it, and won?t take it seriously. The mental health so-called professional _will _be able to see that the person in his or her office is indeed anxious. Who wouldn?t be.

Of course depersonalization is primary, for those who recognize it in themselves. But one of the main things they will talk about is anxiety, and this shouldn?t be surprising. If people were out _displaying _symptoms of just depersonalization they would be poking people to make sure they were real. They would be behaving in wildly idiosyncratic ways because it wouldn?t matter since the world is a dream. They would be simply standing mute because they would have no self to do otherwise.

It is a key symptom of depersonalization disorder, and one we all understand, that reality testing remains intact. (This is also a little mysterious, since what people are complaining about is _un_reality.) So the symptoms of anxiety and depression will be the ones that are visible. And anxiety will be the easiest explanation for the whole mess.

Through the last 30 years it has been in my _calmest _moments, when I have reflected on what I am and where I have been, that I describe these _primary _symptoms.

For the majority of that time, these symptoms have seemed entirely unique. Try to imagine the feeling, after decades of this, of finding out they are far from unique, but are, in fact, stereotypical to this ?mysterious? disorder. Virtually to the letter. Understand that this feeling of _revelation _is also stereotypical to _this _disorder, not to anxiety disorders.

Of course, Joe, you can ?still say? what you like, and you can ?laugh? all you like, but this thing exists. Expect no further debate from me.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Im laughing once again. Yep, it makes me laugh when people describe dp/dr as some sort of mysterious illness. Your waisting your time thinking this way. If its an illness, than everbody on this earth has this illness, because I believe its just part of being human. Sorry, its nothing more than a symptom from a fully engaged fof mechanism. Most doctors and experts theorize the same thing. I agree. Primary dp is EXTREMELY rare. Who knows if it exists at all.

Joe


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## rob (Aug 22, 2004)

Joe

you plainly do not have dp or dr for that matter - quite frankly I don't why you bother coming here other than to frighten people unnecessarily about Klonopin (which for many who DO have dp is a lifesaver) and generally just piss people off

rob


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

I wonder the same thing that JAG posted. If the fear of derealization left, would the derealization leave? Like when the fear of having panic attacks stops, the panic attacks stop. It doesn't always work this way with dp/dr but I believe anxiety is a HUGE factor behind dp/dr. For me I had mild dp/dr and panic attacks but when I went to school 5 hours away alone and had a panic attack in an isolated dorm room with no car to get home, and no best friend or mom to comfort me my panic attack was overwhelming. It's the worst fear I've ever felt in my life, and that's when my chronic dp hit 24/7. That overwhelming fear when you have nowhere to turn so you just shut down. You're body fights desperately to find a safe place. And that safe place is derealization. 
So AHHH I agree with dakota Joe. But I disagree that dp units are fruitless. I think they are very important and it completely sucks that 99% of doctors have no clue what derealization is. But many many people have experienced this sensation in their lives whether they know what it is or not. Anyway, for me my derealization is pretty much all anxiety based. And the more I make myself stop being afraid of it, the less severe my derealization becomes.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2004)

> Joe
> 
> you plainly do not have dp or dr for that matter - quite frankly I don't why you bother coming here other than to frighten people unnecessarily about Klonopin (which for many who DO have dp is a lifesaver) and generally just piss people off
> 
> rob


I agree with Rob on this.
Joe, Fuck Off.


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

sc, fearing it is a horrible thing. I do understand the fear of it, because I use to be so afraid.

My DP/DR began exactly like this:

I had never been a heavy marijuana smoker. However, on one occasion I was smoking pot with friends. I was 15 at the time. During the toking session I became "high". It was one of those everything-is-hilarious highs. I began laughing hysterically. Suddenly in a split second I felt suddenly different. Not scared at first at all. Just completely different, and then confused, lost. I had the sensation my very "self" had disappeared. The sensation then turned to horror; the thought that my self had disappeared. I panicked.

Now that's how I describe the beginning of my DP/DR. Note that prior to the depersonalization I was laughing. In fact I would say that I had never laughed so hard. This seems to contradict the idea that anxiety is the basis for DP/DR. However, after noticing the depersonalization I was horrified, which even then, without ever having heard of DP/DR, I thought my own fear would perpetuate it.

Still terrified a day later, I began obsessing about "what if the sensation never leaves". I was even somewhat conscious of the fact that I might actually scare myself into DP/DR, and that scared me even more. It was like I had an obsession about losing control of my own thoughts.

So, yes I think DP/DR is a symptom, and in some cases a disorder, which affects people with chronic anxiety. But, in my case I'm not so sure anxiety is perpetuating it. I think it is probably just part of being me.

So that said, I think people with DP/DR should not spend too much time trying to get rid of the reality-based symptoms. That's futile. However, if you have chronic anxiety, and subsequently DP/DR then treat the anxiety, because fear is the problem.

I insist there is at least one person in the world who has DP/DR and lives with it, with or without anxiety. Me. I don't believe I'm living in a chronic state of fight or flight. Maybe in some cases, such as mine, you can have DP/DR on its own. How rare my sort of DP/DR is remains to be seen. Because if you don't have a problem with DP/DR then you're not going to seek counseling.


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Edit by Dreamer: double post by JAG.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Hey Rob,

Ive had chronic dp/dr for over 2 years because of my anxiety state. I know as much as anybody about this subject. I continue to come here because of nice people like yourself..lol. Dont worry, Im not going anywhere.

Joe


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

dakotajo... If everyone has DP then why doesn't anyone understand it when I try to explain it to them? I have primary DP. The first time I felt the unreality(DP) I was a little kid thinking about God, it was like a rush, like going down a rollercoaster but then I was able to make it go away... kinda like Dreamer. But then it kept coming back... without any thoughts to prompt it and it caused me fear. And now it is constant and the fear is constant. DP caused the fear.

But anyway... Why, when I posted my symptoms on several anxiety forums, why didn't anyone understand if it's just anxiety and they all have it too? When I was first diagnosed with anxiety and panic disorder I was hopeful. But then I realized the doctors had no idea what I was experiencing. They said yeah panic attacks can cause feelings of unreality. But with panic attacks the fear subsides... the unreality subsides. My unreality NEVER subsides. And my DP CAUSED my panic attacks not the other way around like the doctors said.

I am insulted and really pissed off that you say doctors are wasting time researching this disease. How dare you condemn the research of a disease that we are suffering from that you obviously do not understand. There are millions of people studying anxiety... millions of books about anxiety. I've read many of these books and I'd say maybe one mentioned unreality and even then it was said to be the result of a panic attack and would last briefly.

I'm beginning to doubt you have DP cuz if you did you wouldn't say you could care less about it cuz you'd be in utter hell right now because of it. Maybe you should go to the anxiety forums if they're so helpful. But hey, I'm not gonna sit here and diagnose you like you did to everyone on this board cuz unlike you I don't claim to know how the minds of everyone on this planet work. It seems that if you experience something everyone else has to also. Because you suffered horrible withdrawals from Klonopin you say we all will. Well guess what, I didn't. You say that because your anxiety causes derealization ("The 2d,dark, corridor vision, ability to see all the debris on the inside of the my eye ball lenses, and the perception that im seeing my world from too far back in my head." {these aren't even the symptoms a lot of us are suffering from})...you say that has to be how it is for the rest of us. Well guess what, it isn't.


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

P.S. If you were calm for the first 32 years of your life why the hell did you take Klonopin in the first place?! Maybe that's why it fucked you up so bad... maybe you didn't even need it.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

As I say, there are innumberable variations of when DP/DR presents itself.

*It can (not always) show up in ALL mental illnesses including schizophrenia, bi-polar, OCD, certain personality disorders, post partum depression. It also shows up in patients with certain brain tumors, and in TLE patients.*

If you read (on the IoP site) or any of Dr. Simeon's articles, or articles you can find in PubMed, there are many causes for this, and the approach to alleviating the suffering of the DP/DR symptoms themselves varies from person to person with varying degrees of success.

Again, if you look at my list of meds Rec and Rx (top of this forum) that CAUSE DP/DR in otherwise mentally healthy people, the question arises as to why this happens to some and not to others. When the drug that causes the DP/DR is removed, in these people the DP/DR passes. Researchers want to understand this phenomena.

I know a good number of DPers I met in London who aren't anxious who live with DP/DR. Hannah, Andy C., Ramon, Cavan. And JAG seems to be another. It doesn't mean their experiences are pleasant, but they have a different response to them. Also each have different backgrounds. One had a psychotic depression prior to onset of DP/DR. Some had drug onset.

Those with tumors or epilepsy don't necessarily have anxiety when they experience this, though some may have serious concern over the feelings they experience.

And yes, I have known people who are mentally healthy who have experienced this due to lack of sleep, or during car accidents when the "fight/flight" mechansim is working, or the individual is simply out of homeostasis (due to the lack of sleep). These episodes pass, and the individual finds them uncomfortable or "strange", but move beyond them.

No neurological event is easily understood.

Joe, my question is, why did you seek a DP forum in the first place? Did your doctors understand your feelings immediately? Did they take your symptoms seriously?

I also suggest you read the work of neurologists Oliver Sacks, M.D. and V.S. Ramachandran who illustrate the strange perceptual distortions they have encoutered in their research.

You have reduced the experience of DP/DR to one simple cause, and that isn't the case. I believe chronic fight/flight might be a factor in my DP, but I don't see it in all the cases here.  By a long shot. And again, I have no rec drug history at all. But I don't presume to compare my case to anyone else's here. 
D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Edit: duplicate post I'm afraid to delete. Posting problem.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2004)

Joe says:



> Im misunderstood


Yeah right.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

dakotajo said:


> Im like everybody else here. Ive had chronic dp/dr for over 2 years straight, due to my anxiety state. Im misunderstood. Im not saying that everybody on this earth has dp. Im saying I believe everybody on this earth has the ABILITY to dissociate. I believe like alot of experts that dp/dr is a mechanism which becomes engaged during intolerable suffering. Its all part of the FOF mechanism. Its not mysterious, and its not an illness. Its part of being human.
> 
> Joe


The fight/flight mechansim, I believe, is part our evolution. It exists in animals for protection. In modern society, sometimes it backfires, and becomes PATHOLOGICAL. When it becomes DISABLING and chronic (lasting more than an hour or so over a long period of time for instance), when it interferes w/work or social functioning it is of great concern for patient and doctor alike.

I know people/doctors I have tried to MAKE feel DP/DR. I tell them to focus on their bodies, wonder about their existence, and they CAN'T do it. Some note fleeting experiences in their lives when exhausted/lacking sleep/w jet lag, and others understand deja vu which is also common -- we don't even understand why we experience deja vu!

You can't reduce any neurological phenomena to one simple theory. The brain is SO complex. We have a very limited understanding of how it works.

D


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Im like everybody else here. Ive had chronic dp/dr for over 2 years straight, due to my anxiety state. Im misunderstood. Im not saying that everybody on this earth has dp. Im saying I believe everybody on this earth has the ABILITY to dissociate. I believe like alot of experts that dp/dr is a mechanism which becomes engaged during intolerable suffering. Its all part of the FOF mechanism. Its not mysterious, and its not an illness. Its part of being human.

Joe


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

But DP/DR symptoms may occur more easily in some people than in others. So for one person maybe it hardly requires any anxiety at all whereas another person needs a much greater level of anxiety for DP/DR to kick in. If DP/DR kicks in more easily in some people than in others, then you are in fact getting into the area of a specific problem removed from simple anxiety itself. Afterall, everyone has at least SOME anxiety in their lives, and if their DP/DR symptoms appear from very low anxiety levels, then to me it should be classified as a separate phenomenon. In other words, however rare or unlikely, someone could potentially DP or DR from simply living.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

Agreed. Im sure, everybodies threshold is different. As Dreamer says, were all unique. I still believe tho that is no illness. Whats perpetuating the fof response maybe is, but the dp/dr itself is only a symptom. A doctor once told me that you can become accustomed to anxiety states and not even realize your in one.

Joe


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

dakotajo said:


> A doctor once told me that you can become accustomed to anxiety states and not even realize your in one.
> 
> Joe


Yeah Joe, I've thought about that before. And I haven't ruled it out as a possibility in my case.

But don't forget the possibility that DP/DR can occur at very low levels of anxiety. And maybe at levels which are considered normal. Depending on the individual, of course.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

everyone seems so bitchy around here lately that ive been afraid to post lest i get my bitch-switch flipped..

i see your point joe.. yes dp is part of fight or flight.. but alas its not that simple deary.

not everyone has 24/7 fight or flight... usually it happens after a horrific or tragic event.. trauma.. then bang your dped.. then it goes away.. grief period then healing begins in whatever form. but the dp ultimately goes away. unfortunately in some cases it doesnt. it gets 'stuck'. the switch is turned on but for some sick twist of fate doesnt turn off. or in other cases like me... it turns off for a bit.. then it turns back on when i least expect it to. and there are different responses to it. for me... its a pleasant experience. its the way my mind 'shuts off' to get away from the horrors of reality. the problem is i have no control over it. and when it happens im even less in control and oblivious to what is going on around me. not being in control is what i hate about it.

dp is not a disease. but it is a disorder. it IS REAL. we are not like everyone else. i mean .. how the hell can you think that? havent you tried to explain it to people that have no fricken clue what youre talking about and look at you like youre a flippin loon? i have. choke times. no one i know really knows how i feel.. accept my friends from this site.

WE ARE UNIQUE. if you dont think so.. then you are just trying to blind yourself to the facts. saying everyone has this is like saying everyone can cook just because everyone can zap a hotpocket. my dad can do that and he cant cook to save his life.

you gotta look at the whole picture before you start throwing facts around wildly. in other words.. get your facts strait. 8)


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

Reading around a little here tonight (this thread and the really sad one started by Rob) and I am suddenly really demoralized.

I am a newish here, now around six months. I wanted to be a "member." I think my posts are sententious. I think I am trying to cook up some persona for social reasons as much as anything else, trying to define myself. I do this in the non-virtual world as well, but have given up on being anyone of any consequence, and so out there I try to pick a facade that is as innocuous as possible.

Here it seems to me, tonight, that I have been trying to create a different kind of identity, and as I said, I don't much like it. I have associated this absolute sense of disingenuousness with DP.

But this place seems so full of distinct personalities, and right now I think I have been trying to have/be, one myself. It is a trap, an eternal shuttle, because, I think every utterance implies or creates some kind of person or personality or self. Never mind about that.

Was going someplace with this, something like, if I enter some kind of debate I really don't know what I am talking about.

My experience as briefly as possible:

Very fortunate to have had a great childhood. 
Disgusted at how ungrateful I have been for this good fortune
Pretty happy, optimistic, and in some ways prodigious kid
Changed quickly concurrent with use of cannabis.
To my surprise and shame became in so many ways "damaged" adult.
Functioned until now through a series of shitty jobs and lots of beer.
Enough of this.

Is there anxiety here? Yes. Is there psychology? Duh. Is there something else related, specifically, to cannabis? I had always thought so, in the back of my mind, but had dismissed this. One, it is shameful to think that I have so adversely affected my life by just trying to be like my friends. Two, it just didn't seem possible for something almost everyone I knew experienced as a mild diversion to have a long lasting effect on me. It was adding THC to a search on things like unreality that I found out about DP, and on this site I found other people, for the first time, talking about the same syndrome.

That is why I have been putzing around here, and I have found if of great value. For one reason the wealth of support and information, and the possibility of real help. For another, some sense of being someone. I don't really want to engage in any controversy or to debate anything. Rob and Joe and Janine and Dreamer and Rev and Jag and sc and etc.--all this stuff is good and nothing wrong with a little passion, _absent_ any nastiness.

As far as the original point. I am similar to Jag. Terror at first, thinking that the successful life I had planned would turn into a life devoid of accomplishment and human intimacy. Now that this has happened, there is not that much to be afraid of. I have no symptoms debilitating enough to keep me from getting out in the world and doing (albiet, mostly the minimum) things I need to do.

As far as the way I percieve my self and my surroundings, I am used to this way of experiencing things and can live with it. I have assumed I will have no other choice.

My main aim is to confront any symptoms that might keep me from improving my life, (assuming I can cook up some motivation to try) preparing for the next several decades, which can not go like the last several, improving the nuts and bolts of my existence before it is really to late. These very well may be anxiety and depression and the like. Anyway


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2004)

Hey uhm... lostvisionlostfeeling... aka: Robbie. Just a little FYI for you, smoking weed isn't going to help your anxious nervous system, but instead damage it and make it harder for you to recover. I would rethink your actions. 

 :roll:


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

dalailama15,

nice post


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

JAG said:


> dalailama15,
> 
> nice post


Agreed. Echo some of my sentiments exactly -- about my life, my future, and the sort of "burning out" over 30 years of the "terror" of DP/DR.

I must say, my approach has been to "fit in" knowing all the while I have never been able to. And I'm in a place now of hopelessness re: my future. However, what to do, but plod along.

But I have a need to "leave my mark" on the world, or I feel I will have truly never existed.

I will say however, anticipatory anxiety over the simplest things sometimes can bring on BAD DP/DR which still horrifies/terrifies me as much as it did when it first "took over."

Best,
D


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2004)

Hi SB,

Im just stating my opinion. Like Ive said before, I dont believe every human has dp. Id hate to think of the whole world in mental distress all at one time. Im saying I believe every healthy human being has this ability if certain situations arise. I truly believe dp/dr is nothing more than a healthy product of our FOF response. For whatever reasons, for some of us the response stays turned on. I believe the problem perpetuating the response is unique in each of us. Ive been reading alot about the FOF response and its absolutely fascinating...all of the processes that occur when we "turn it on". Its so complicated that it just makes me feel like there must be somebody behind the curtain.

Joe


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## daveplanet (Aug 24, 2004)

Dalailama15.. Great, candid and honest post. 
But you doubt the 'depression' component in your current condition?
Even though I am a menber of the much lambasted mental health profession, it seems to me that your post reeks of all necessary components for clinical depression...Guilt, low self worth etc.


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

I also have phobic body odor. Thank you so much for saying I "reek"


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

I once worked in this crappy restaurant on the graveyard shift. The place was robbed on my night off and I heard the story the next night. Some guys had come in with a dog, some pipes or clubs, and had busted some stuff up, terrorized the place a little, and took some money. One of the guys that worked there was a little slow, and he kept interrupting the story, saying that it was illegal. according to the health department, to bring a dog into a restaurant unless he was a seeing eye dog. Yes I'm sure I am frequently depressed to clinical proportions, but it feels like the dog in the restaurant.


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