# Is deporsonalization/derealization permanent



## deadhead262

Hi, I have had chronic derealization for over 3 months caused by a marijuana induced panic attack. It is there 24/7 and I never have a moment where I feel attached with the world anymore. My question is whether or not it's permanent? I want to hear it from you guy's not these sick f!ckers who sell "cure's" for $200. If it is permanent what is the point of living, it's like hell. Have any of you actually been cured?


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## doritocakes

Some of the people here have actually been cured, yes. The good thing for you is drug- induced DP/DR seems easier to cure than non-drug induced. I've had mine as long as I can remember and I've never done drugs.


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## californian

deadhead262 said:


> Hi, I have had chronic derealization for over 3 months caused by a marijuana induced panic attack. It is there 24/7 and I never have a moment where I feel attached with the world anymore. My question is whether or not it's permanent? I want to hear it from you guy's not these sick f!ckers who sell "cure's" for $200. If it is permanent what is the point of living, it's like hell. Have any of you actually been cured?


A LOT of people have been cured. And a lot of people have found medications that at least make life more enjoyable/bearable.

And some people like me (mine was not drug-induced, fwiw) have episodes of it throughout life (since I was 16--I'm now in my mid 30s) of varying intensities.

There are quite a few things to remember that I've learned from dealing with this on and off throughout life.

1) It feels like 24/7, but if one were to really mark it on a scale of 1 to 10 throughout the day, you'll see that it wavers. It may never be at zero, but there are times that it gets worse and times it gets better.

2) It infects your memories and tricks you into thinking "I've always been this way" and "I'll always be this way." Don't listen, it's a lie. Every memory gets distorted by the present sensation of dp/dr.

3) I highly recommend seeking out medical attention and finding a med that at least helps deal with anxiety and depression. The more those are dealt with, the easier you can distract yourself from it.

4) The more you distract yourself from it, the more it will taper off over time.

Just some thoughts for now. I remember when I was sixteen and had suffered my first three months. It was awful. Hang in there. While there is no "magic pill" to take care of it all, there are plenty of ways you can be helped.

And oh yeah, if you can get your hands on Daphne Simeon's Feeling Unreal and Mauricio Sierra's more recent Depersonalization, you'll feel a bit better about the fact people are working on this and that there are a wide variety of treatment alternatives.


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## MIndfAEL

i dont understand why wikipedia and many places don't have a prognosis but some places say "some patients can recover completely". but idk it seems like there are so many people that have it for like 10+ years 24/7. I'm done lying to myself and accepted thats its usually a life-long disorder. the good news though is that there are places studying it and there are treatment like lamictal showing promise. also although many people have it for so long there are lots of people who are cured even after having it 24/7 for several years which means we can never give up hope cause there is always a chance we will recover. but yea to sum it up i think most people are just horrified that this dpd is life-long but as of now it often is


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## californian

mmarcus said:


> i dont understand why wikipedia and many places don't have a prognosis but some places say "some patients can recover completely". but idk it seems like there are so many people that have it for like 10+ years 24/7. I'm done lying to myself and accepted thats its usually a life-long disorder. the good news though is that there are places studying it and there are treatment like lamictal showing promise. also although many people have it for so long there are lots of people who are cured even after having it 24/7 for several years which means we can never give up hope cause there is always a chance we will recover. but yea to sum it up i think most people are just horrified that this dpd is life-long but as of now it often is


Actually, I believe that both Drs Simeon and Sierra report that is actually quite rare for someone to have it as a lifelong condition. There are a few people on here (this board) where that has been the case. But it is not the norm.

The deadliest thing about this disorder is that it makes you think that you will never get out of it and that you've always been this way. Everything gets filtered through the lens of the present feeling.

I say this because I can remember the specific day and even moment when I realized I had my first DP/DR experience. It was bizarre and frightening and the ensuing months seemed absolutely unbearable.

But eventually, even though it came on dramatically, I came to start thinking I had always been that way. There wasn't a single childhood memory I could come up with that didn't feel infected by the Dp/DR feeling.

So, to sum up. 1) It almost certainly won't last forever in a permanent unbearable way! 
and

2) There are a number of meds and psychological therapies that can help it feel a LOT better.

3) Exercise and healthy living help a lot too.


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## BlueTank

Dude I smoked pot for the first time when i was 18. freaked out. and had DP/DR for an unknown ammount of time. Lets say 4 days. Thats what I think it was. It went away.

I turned 23 and I had a crazy situation. I stressed out and panicked and I felt DP/DR coming on and i settled down and it went away within the day.

I turned 30 and stress and the flu and all that got me. I have DP/DR now

Point is yes it can go away. And also you can live with it. The fact that I hardly come onto this site shows that you can live with it. I have done well!

Also your not going to see a lot of recovery people on here. your average person is going to miss this site all together or if they do get better they sure as hell are not coming back because god forbid it happens again. Some come back but imagine all the people who just move on.

Stop smoking pot. Ignore it. Think positive. Be healthy.


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## MIndfAEL

BlueTank said:


> Dude I smoked pot for the first time when i was 18. freaked out. and had DP/DR for an unknown ammount of time. Lets say 4 days. Thats what I think it was. It went away.
> 
> I turned 23 and I had a crazy situation. I stressed out and panicked and I felt DP/DR coming on and i settled down and it went away within the day.
> 
> I turned 30 and stress and the flu and all that got me. I have DP/DR now
> 
> Point is yes it can go away. And also you can live with it. The fact that I hardly come onto this site shows that you can live with it. I have done well!
> 
> Also your not going to see a lot of recovery people on here. your average person is going to miss this site all together or if they do get better they sure as hell are not coming back because god forbid it happens again. Some come back but imagine all the people who just move on.
> 
> Stop smoking pot. Ignore it. Think positive. Be healthy.


ok so your one of the people that get episodes with stressful events in their life. mine is 24/7 distraction doesn't help. in some people it is just chronic and doesn't go away.


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## MIndfAEL

californian said:


> Actually, I believe that both Drs Simeon and Sierra report that is actually quite rare for someone to have it as a lifelong condition. There are a few people on here (this board) where that has been the case. But it is not the norm.
> 
> The deadliest thing about this disorder is that it makes you think that you will never get out of it and that you've always been this way. Everything gets filtered through the lens of the present feeling.
> 
> I say this because I can remember the specific day and even moment when I realized I had my first DP/DR experience. It was bizarre and frightening and the ensuing months seemed absolutely unbearable.
> 
> But eventually, even though it came on dramatically, I came to start thinking I had always been that way. There wasn't a single childhood memory I could come up with that didn't feel infected by the Dp/DR feeling.
> 
> So, to sum up. 1) It almost certainly won't last forever in a permanent unbearable way!
> and
> 
> 2) There are a number of meds and psychological therapies that can help it feel a LOT better.
> 
> 3) Exercise and healthy living help a lot too.


wow i have the exact same thoughts like i wonder if I've always had this and when i think of memories i feel like I've always had this. but then i realize i can't even watch a tv show. there is now way I've had this my whole life and probably same with you. i think it makes you feel like you've had it your whole life while you are in dp mindset but people who recover say they barely remember what it was like. Also, where did Dr. Simeon and Sierra report it is actually rare to be lifelong? i thought they said it was pretty refractory to treatment and is life-long. i know they said it affects 1-2% of the population but thats not rare. think of your high school class. say theres 200 people that means 2-4 people in your grade alone will have it.


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## MIndfAEL

californian said:


> Actually, I believe that both Drs Simeon and Sierra report that is actually quite rare for someone to have it as a lifelong condition. There are a few people on here (this board) where that has been the case. But it is not the norm.
> 
> The deadliest thing about this disorder is that it makes you think that you will never get out of it and that you've always been this way. Everything gets filtered through the lens of the present feeling.
> 
> I say this because I can remember the specific day and even moment when I realized I had my first DP/DR experience. It was bizarre and frightening and the ensuing months seemed absolutely unbearable.
> 
> But eventually, even though it came on dramatically, I came to start thinking I had always been that way. There wasn't a single childhood memory I could come up with that didn't feel infected by the Dp/DR feeling.
> 
> So, to sum up. 1) It almost certainly won't last forever in a permanent unbearable way!
> and
> 
> 2) There are a number of meds and psychological therapies that can help it feel a LOT better.
> 
> 3) Exercise and healthy living help a lot too.


also if it wasn't life-long then we would see almost everyone posting a recovery story after however many years. but i have seen quite the opposite. most people of this forum,youtube, etc say they have had it for many years and haven't recovered. people need to stop giving false information. what gives me hope is treatment research.


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## californian

mmarcus said:


> also if it wasn't life-long then we would see almost everyone posting a recovery story after however many years. but i have seen quite the opposite. most people of this forum,youtube, etc say they have had it for many years and haven't recovered. people need to stop giving false information. what gives me hope is treatment research.


I agree that what gives the most hope is research. I would love to be done with this thing forever.

At the same time, I've been a member of this board for 6 years. I stop coming around for long periods of time whenever I'm feeling better. That's what the vast majority of members do. There are very few people still on here that have had no improvement of any kind. There are exceptions, of course.

Also, "treatment-refractory" does not equate with "lifelong condition." It just means that there is not an established line of treatment that has been proven to help the majority of people (as say SSRIs with major depression, anti-psychotics with schizophrenia, etc.)

But some people have gotten better using benzos, some with CBT, some with EMDR, some with SSRIs, some with tricyclics, some purely by exercise, some by self-distraction, etc.

It's a weird thing, man. But it certainly isn't hopeless and I'm definitely in the camp that believes kappa-opioid antagonism is going to yield some serious answers.

Thoughts?


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## insaticiable

I recovered 100% COMPLETELY for 3 weeks last April. I was in the psychiatric hospital when it happened, and no...it didn't have to do anything with being on medications. I just felt safe and secure while I was there and the ''fight or flight'' mechanism just switched off and I was back in reality. Lasted 3 weeks and then I relapsed, but I'm positive that if I get in the right environment, that there will be a high chance of me recovering again. Recovering is most definitely possible. Just got to find your ''secret recipe'' as I like to call it.


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## deadhead262

insaticiable said:


> I recovered 100% COMPLETELY for 3 weeks last April. I was in the psychiatric hospital when it happened, and no...it didn't have to do anything with being on medications. I just felt safe and secure while I was there and the ''fight or flight'' mechanism just switched off and I was back in reality. Lasted 3 weeks and then I relapsed, but I'm positive that if I get in the right environment, that there will be a high chance of me recovering again. Recovering is most definitely possible. Just got to find your ''secret recipe'' as I like to call it.


That's just it. I don't want it coming back I want it gone forever.


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## lauzdp

Feels for me like this is going to be permanent... just feels like, whats the point in living if you are never going to enjoy life. Pretty low right now


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## deadhead262

lauzdp said:


> Feels for me like this is going to be permanent... just feels like, whats the point in living if you are never going to enjoy life. Pretty low right now


Exactly, It just makes my depression worse and im anxious 24/7. Last time I felt ok was over 9 months ago. Stupid fucking brain!


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## MIndfAEL

californian said:


> I agree that what gives the most hope is research. I would love to be done with this thing forever.
> 
> At the same time, I've been a member of this board for 6 years. I stop coming around for long periods of time whenever I'm feeling better. That's what the vast majority of members do. There are very few people still on here that have had no improvement of any kind. There are exceptions, of course.
> 
> Also, "treatment-refractory" does not equate with "lifelong condition." It just means that there is not an established line of treatment that has been proven to help the majority of people (as say SSRIs with major depression, anti-psychotics with schizophrenia, etc.)
> 
> But some people have gotten better using benzos, some with CBT, some with EMDR, some with SSRIs, some with tricyclics, some purely by exercise, some by self-distraction, etc.
> 
> It's a weird thing, man. But it certainly isn't hopeless and I'm definitely in the camp that believes kappa-opioid antagonism is going to yield some serious answers.
> 
> Thoughts?


i meant that it is treatment-refractory and life-long. i remember reading somewhere that they said it "tends to be long-term" which i took as meaning life-long. i could be wrong and you know more than me having been around for 6 years but thats just my opinion. and yea it does seem like a lot of people feel better but i feel like thats just because they can cope with their symptoms not cause they had an actual reduction in symptoms. and i don't know much about kappa-opioid antagonism other than that russian study that supposidly yielded amazing results. but i wonder why the london research unit isn't experimenting with it if it were so promising. i know they are researching into tms right now. but the reason i think it can be treated is cause its not brain damage its a chemical imbalance. if it were brain damage than how could people have this for 8 years then recover and how could people experience episodes.


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## sunflowersteve

i'm pretty sure everybody who's ever dealt with this; recovered yet or not, has thought that it would be permanent for them and they were the one's who would have this for life. well how do you KNOW that? everybody can recover. just because someones had it for forever doesn't mean they're the exception. these feelings come from many things whether it be trauma or anxiety or depression or who knows what. you just have to find a way, and sure you could die before you do, but never give up hope.


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## MIndfAEL

lauzdp said:


> Feels for me like this is going to be permanent... just feels like, whats the point in living if you are never going to enjoy life. Pretty low right now


key word FEELS like its going to be permanent. that doesn't mean it will be. you have to have hope. and even if you do have it it doesn't mean you can't live a successful life.many people with dpd have and will.


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## BlueTank

mmarcus said:


> ok so your one of the people that get episodes with stressful events in their life. mine is 24/7 distraction doesn't help. in some people it is just chronic and doesn't go away.


I kinda didn't want to bum anybody out but It has been permanent for the past 2 years. Those stories I told are all true and I only know it was DP/DR etc.. from retrospect. That one time when I was 18 a guy told me I was "Hung over" and that it would "go away" And I suppose it did! For about 12 years! Trust me I feel lucky on that alone.

I would say it had its moments anywhere between birth and 30 years of age.

But after 30 it stuck. I've had it consistently for the past 2 years with highly varying degrees. Ranging from probably whole days of not even noticing or remembering down to not caring about what life even means etc...

I will say the bulk of the 2 years have been on the better side, which some might claim as "being cured". Simply because I look back and realize that for large chunks of time I was just fine. Laughing. Cracking jokes. Working and doing hobbies. But I personally don't say i'm cured because the DR is surely always there. The HPPD-like symptoms hang out. They just get worse with stress and anxiety. And also its been kinda bad for about 1 or 2 weeks now.

My dad said it started for him when he was 30, was at its worse in his mid 30s, and that it got a lot better in his 40s. But I personally also think that has to do with whats going on in his life too. I think its permanent with him but he's just not raising his crazy kids anymore







.


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## californian

mmarcus said:


> i meant that it is treatment-refractory and life-long. i remember reading somewhere that they said it "tends to be long-term" which i took as meaning life-long. i could be wrong and you know more than me having been around for 6 years but thats just my opinion. and yea it does seem like a lot of people feel better but i feel like thats just because they can cope with their symptoms not cause they had an actual reduction in symptoms. and i don't know much about kappa-opioid antagonism other than that russian study that supposidly yielded amazing results. but i wonder why the london research unit isn't experimenting with it if it were so promising. i know they are researching into tms right now. but the reason i think it can be treated is cause its not brain damage its a chemical imbalance. if it were brain damage than how could people have this for 8 years then recover and how could people experience episodes.


The main problem with kappa-opioid antagonism is that there are no selective kappa-opioid antagonists currently approved for human use.

Here's what Sierra says on the subject:

"In regards to the search for new pharmacological treatments, two new drugs loom on the horizon as potentially useful: (1) cannabis receptor antagonists;
(2) selective kappa opioid receptor antagonists."

and also

"In view of the promising results with opioid antagonists, it is worth bearing in mind that, while the induction of depersonalization is exclusive to kappa agonists, all of the antagonists tested so far are non-specific and with a preference for mu receptors at low doses. Although kappa opioid antagonists have not yet been developed for human use, it is likely they will become available in the next few years."

There is one drug that currently is known to antagonize kappa-opioid receptors. It is buprenorphine. Unfortunately, in most countries it is tightly regulated because it is approved primarily (or sometimes solely) as a treatment option for opiate addicts. In the U.S. docs can (ironically) get in trouble for prescribing it off label.

There are a few people on the board who have been fortunate to have been able to try buprenorphine. All have reported it as the most effective thing at reducing symptoms. One person (who had had a history of opiate abuse) did not find it to be a long term solution. Another had trouble getting anything after the week of prescription that they got. Still another reported lasting 100% remission from using it and another drug combo.


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## californian

lauzdp said:


> Feels for me like this is going to be permanent... just feels like, whats the point in living if you are never going to enjoy life. Pretty low right now


Another thing I'll throw out there for people in general is that I highly recommend trying a benzo (esp Klonopin). I know this can be a contentious issue on the board. But this is why I stress the word "try."

One of the worst things about DP is that it definitely exacerbates itself. It appears to be a defense mechanism gone awry to protect one from trauma, but when the trauma is coming from the DP itself you can't get out of the vicious circle of the DP symptoms reinforcing the DP itself.

Klonopin can 1) help get the brain fog out, 2) give you a more embodied feeling, and 3) help you to not be obsessed over it as much and allow the brain to be more easily distracted and reset itself to some degree.

The other thing is that you can tell if it is going to help right away, sometimes with the first dose or within the first few days.

I was terrified of trying it. It changed my life for the better. Now when I sink into DP I don't fear it like I used to. I used to know that I had at least several months of continuous agony ahead of me with no relief. Now I know that it will be manageable. That alone helps it not to be as bad.


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## MIndfAEL

californian said:


> The main problem with kappa-opioid antagonism is that there are no selective kappa-opioid antagonists currently approved for human use.
> 
> Here's what Sierra says on the subject:
> 
> "In regards to the search for new pharmacological treatments, two new drugs loom on the horizon as potentially useful: (1) cannabis receptor antagonists;
> (2) selective kappa opioid receptor antagonists."
> 
> and also
> 
> "In view of the promising results with opioid antagonists, it is worth bearing in mind that, while the induction of depersonalization is exclusive to kappa agonists, all of the antagonists tested so far are non-specific and with a preference for mu receptors at low doses. Although kappa opioid antagonists have not yet been developed for human use, it is likely they will become available in the next few years."
> 
> There is one drug that currently is known to antagonize kappa-opioid receptors. It is buprenorphine. Unfortunately, in most countries it is tightly regulated because it is approved primarily (or sometimes solely) as a treatment option for opiate addicts. In the U.S. docs can (ironically) get in trouble for prescribing it off label.
> 
> There are a few people on the board who have been fortunate to have been able to try buprenorphine. All have reported it as the most effective thing at reducing symptoms. One person (who had had a history of opiate abuse) did not find it to be a long term solution. Another had trouble getting anything after the week of prescription that they got. Still another reported lasting 100% remission from using it and another drug combo.


thanks man sounds very promising







keep me updated plz


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## BlueTank

californian said:


> Another thing I'll throw out there for people in general is that I highly recommend trying a benzo (esp Klonopin). I know this can be a contentious issue on the board. But this is why I stress the word "try."
> 
> One of the worst things about DP is that it definitely exacerbates itself. It appears to be a defense mechanism gone awry to protect one from trauma, but when the trauma is coming from the DP itself you can't get out of the vicious circle of the DP symptoms reinforcing the DP itself.
> 
> Klonopin can 1) help get the brain fog out, 2) give you a more embodied feeling, and 3) help you to not be obsessed over it as much and allow the brain to be more easily distracted and reset itself to some degree.
> 
> The other thing is that you can tell if it is going to help right away, sometimes with the first dose or within the first few days.
> 
> I was terrified of trying it. It changed my life for the better. Now when I sink into DP I don't fear it like I used to. I used to know that I had at least several months of continuous agony ahead of me with no relief. Now I know that it will be manageable. That alone helps it not to be as bad.


Ditto.

I feared trying it. I do not have an addictive personality really and so I was told that would help. The fact that I wanted to get better and not like high or anything. I ramped up to 1.5 mg and took it for probably 4 months. Then I tapered off over about a month or two? i have the information on this board somewhere. Anyways. By far the best if not only (heavy) drug to help me out. It helps with sleep. It did not turn me into a zombie. My brother said he couldn't even tell the difference - although personally i had times where I would lay down for a bit in the afternoon. I tapered off of the stuff no problem!!! It had slight effects tapering but far less than Zoloft. Zoloft sucked. After I got off of klonopin I never was addicted. I don't think about it. I don't even care. And like Californian said its always there.

I have good control so since i've tapered off completely i've only taken it like 2 or 3 times. and only .5 mg. And only to get to sleep because I got shook up really really badly.

I have extra laying around because I would get my prescription and taper myself. Its sitting in the cabinet right now and I never think about it. Only if my body is buzzing and then may be i'll think about taking .5 mg


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## californian

BlueTank said:


> Ditto.
> 
> I feared trying it. I do not have an addictive personality really and so I was told that would help. The fact that I wanted to get better and not like high or anything. I ramped up to 1.5 mg and took it for probably 4 months. Then I tapered off over about a month or two? i have the information on this board somewhere. Anyways. By far the best if not only (heavy) drug to help me out. It helps with sleep. It did not turn me into a zombie. My brother said he couldn't even tell the difference - although personally i had times where I would lay down for a bit in the afternoon. I tapered off of the stuff no problem!!! It had slight effects tapering but far less than Zoloft. Zoloft sucked. After I got off of klonopin I never was addicted. I don't think about it. I don't even care. And like Californian said its always there.
> 
> I have good control so since i've tapered off completely i've only taken it like 2 or 3 times. and only .5 mg. And only to get to sleep because I got shook up really really badly.
> 
> I have extra laying around because I would get my prescription and taper myself. Its sitting in the cabinet right now and I never think about it. Only if my body is buzzing and then may be i'll think about taking .5 mg


Exactly!


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## deadhead262

I actually downloaded that linden method program yesterday for free(I wasnt going to pay). The stuff he puts in there actually really help. Try tai chi it really relaxes you. I won't give you a pirated link but get it if you can, at least I am doing something constructive now.


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## oceauntides

Hi I hope some of you are on here still. I understand this post is like 4 years old lol but anyways I read things about derealization when I'm feeling it really badly. I experience it 24/7 and I've had it for about 2 years. I think I got this way because of smoking pot. I've been on medication for a year. I haven't had a panic attack since last August but lately I've been on the verge of having one. I read that smoking pot and getting derealization from it is usually a result of neurological damage  not sure if it's true of course but my memory is shit and I mean really to put it simply I feel really stupid now. I can't think for myself. What if my brain has permanent damage? I don't want to feel this way forever.


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