# Anyone know Classical Music theory?



## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

I do not want to actually LEARN anything, lol..but what I'm looking for is this:

I want to write something that compares Bach's musical style to a person's verbal presentation style. Example: (and remember, I'm a musical idiot, so this is probably WRONG, but I'm just trying to explain what I'm looking for). "Person X speaks in a way reminiscent of Bach's music - he carries an undercurrent of a strong melodic line, but layers in recurring themes, often discordant, but textured so carefully that it seems you are hearing every piece of music ever written."

That's the "gist" of the kind of thing I want to say.

What in particular to Bach's style would lend itself to a comparison of how someone talks?

Thank YOU, in advance,
Love,
me


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm a classically trained pianist 8) and I have no idea whatsoever how to help you on this.

Well, maybe you could try understanding the structure of one of Bach's differing compositional styles. Take the fugue for example which has the general structure of using virtually every octave in the scale, tying each octave gradually concurrently into the next and then gradually (or sometimes hastily) finding its way back down the scale. I guess if you were to speak in this manner, then you would want to provide multiple, relevant segways into each thought, and then arrive at the end where you started. Not sure if this is how one would want to talk though. At least, it'd be impossible for me to talk/write like this becuase i'm a human being and not a piano.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

Actually, that's pretty useful (you grasped the concept for sure)

Thank you!


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

I'm not too familiar with Bach and being a rock musician, I try to steer clear of music theory as it can often be more of a setback than an aid, but basically learning guitar from Trey Anastasio of Phish, I was forced to learn some theory along the way as he is always floating from key to key and scale to scale. Ziggo was pretty much on.

I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but if you are just looking for big words to use, this could help, you and Ziggomatix have basically listed them out already:

A. Fugue- a composition where one or more themes are introduced and developed through imitation of the theme or through a variation of the theme (more elaborate stuff like changing all sorts of keys, majors to minors, going up and down the octave scale)

B. Segue (or segway) - when the development of a theme allows the music (or writing/dialogue) to transition into a whole new theme or melody

C. Discordance or dissonance- when notes or themes or variations (in writing or conversation these could be ideas, themes, characters) all clash and create conflict.

D. Crescendo/decrescendo- I'm sure you know what those mean

E. tension/release- exactly what it sounds like

I don't know my theory as well as well as Ziggomatix, though. I don't think there are any big words to describe "as if you could hear every piece of music ever written."

You want to start a band, Ziggomatix? Can you rock a Hammond and a Moog?


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

Yeah, i guess the fugue i was thinking of is the one straight outta Toccata and fugue, which is one of Bach's more elaborate and all-encompassing pieces. I should have mentioned (or remembered) that many of the improvisations of a fugue are based on other pieces based within a few octive margins.

At times i think I speak like an Aphex Twin acid beat song. Which is by far the total opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm sitting next to a 1500 dollar Yamaha S09 but i'm looking to pawn that beast off for a cheaper and more "rock-friendly" Korg. Maybe something like an old synth from the 80s would be nice. The keyboard, as time goes on, is looking more and more "John Tesh" to me, and its not very fitting for my personality. I can jazz and classical out if you like.


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

most of the worlds greatest musicians dont know a thing about music theory....i believe music is all about feeling...if youve got that vibe its going to happen,i have taught many friends how to play the guitar and i always tell them anyone can learn to hold down a chord,its what you do with your strumming hand thats important....this has nothing to do with the question but hey......music is a feeling


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

You guys are the best. THIS IS EXACTLY what I was looking for. THANK YOU!

I'll let you know what I end up saying, how I use the terms, and ideas you offered here.

Love this Board, lol....it's such a cross section of humanity, we've got experts in EVERYthing!!! :wink:


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

lennon & mcartney couldnt read music,and they didnt do too bad


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

I can't read music. Well, maybe at a snail's pace. I took an intro to music class in college, but it wasn't really theory. Only in the past year have I come to learn why sevenths are called sevenths and nines are called nines...and so on. I've been playing guitar for 12 years now.

The reason I said I try to steer clear of music theory was in high school, the keyboardist for our band was more classically trained. I wrote the songs and I remember one time I had a song which had a chord change from B-flat to D. He started arguing that theory would naturally lead to an A7 instead of D. I was just like, WTF?, play an f'n D. screw your theory, it got ugly, and he couldn't play a good rock/blues solo for the life of him.

I was wondering if any of you other guitarists are like this. I am very math/science oriented, and when I first started to play guitar and improvise, say I had to start improvising in an E-blues pentatonic, the notes of that scale just light up with the fret numbers on their respective strings. Naturally, after a while, I just knew where to go, where to bend or whatever, and it was more of an ear thing. I thought everybody kind of played like that, but coming to meet some professional studio guitarists in Nashville, they don't play like that. It's more of a feel thing to some of them.

I think that's why I could never really read your normal treble/bass clef notation well and play piano. With piano, I don't see numbers, so I never really learned to play it. I've gotten a lot better, and it is more of a feel thing and just knowing where to go, but I could never be really good at piano if I tried.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

I only use theory when playing someone else's music, and theory does not enter my head when i am playing something improvisational although it might have helped me subconsiously know where to go and which chords to play. I know what the chord will sound like before i even play it which is very helpful.


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

It's really hard on guitar to switch chords really fast without having stuff memorized or knowing music theory. Jazz guitarists for example, often times when there is a piano or horn solo, just improvise by switching chords at a lightning pace. Not just two note chords but actual big chords with three or four notes. That's when all the 9s, 7s, 13, suspended, augmented, and diminished chords come in, and theory really helps.

Doesn't really matter though on rock guitar, though. Those quick jazz chord progressions although improvised, usually serve as rhythm. Guitar soloing is usually playing one note at a time, anyway.

Yeah, most good musicians hear the notes before they play them. My brother also plays guitar but he isn't that good and takes lessons all the time, and I only took two in my entire life. I did that scatting thing, where you sing in sync with the notes you're soloing. He was baffled. I don't know. I always thought music talent was something you have or you don't. Just like sports. You've got some coordination or you don't.


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i was trained in music theory and the cello. i think if you write what you're trying to say in your own words it might be good, or you could then look up the technical words for some of your descriptions and substitute them. see what it sounds like. nice idea; when you get it together i'd love to read it


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

or if it's a particular piece and you know the bits of it that you want to equate to something, you could look up critics of it and in this way pinpoint in words the bit you want to equate if you know what i mean


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