# QUESTION/FEARLESS



## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Ok, so I am desperately in need of unconditional love and trust. Question: why am I not satisfied with the loads of love I get from my GF? It is nearly unconditional and it is trustworthy. So why doesn't it mend/fill the HOLE?


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2013)

http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f26/the-toxic-shame-thread-the-cause-of-sa-for-most-98335/

I'm spreading the toxic shame concept around as I found it be core issue that all of my emotional and behavioral problems spring from, and I wouldn't be surprised if others are affected by it as well.

I'm new to the concept, but basically if you see your self as undeserving of love to do feeling inherently flawed and bad, then it wouldn't matter how much love is given to you because you simply won't accept it, even if you feel you want it.


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> Well, there are a few important things you need to clear up to understand yourself in this situation.
> 
> 1.*) people who have some serious confidence issue in their life, feel weak, their attachment needs are triggered, so they get into relationships. like, you don't have enough money, but want to be rich, you feel bad, but you're not fighting, your attachment need is triggered and you want to be "soothed" by your girlfriend*. now, this will only satisfy you in the short-term, since your girlfriend's love is only a compensation effort, and she is not really what you want, so she can't fulfill your need. I believe it's basically a replay of son-mother / attachment behaviour (I actually read it, but right now im still in the accepting stage lol). like, you get bullied at school, so you run to your mother. 20 years later, your boss tells you off, and you go to your wife. you go to her and not to your mother because it's socially unaccepted to cry to your mom at 33. but it's totally cool to cry for your wife.
> 
> ...


All of the above are true, especially the bolded sentence. But then why am I so afraid to do things? WHy am I so afraid to live life? It's like a cicyle that bites its tail. I have no self esteem because I am afraid to do things because I have no self esteem? It's absurd


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2013)

Toxic shame explains why your afraid to live life. You feel ashamed of expressing your self, of being you so you hide away and don't do things.


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Antimony said:


> Toxic shame explains why your afraid to live life. You feel ashamed of expressing your self, of being you so you hide away and don't do things.


I feel like there is some truth in this. But I don't "hide away and don't do things". I do them, I push through everything that needs to be done because I know that it is only worse if you start giving credibility to DP.

My real issue is this:*I feel like the world is a miserable place, and no matter what I do, achieve, with whom I am etc, I will always feel this sense of rejection/not belonging/ fear/ anger. This is making my DP persist. *And I totally see how this is rooted in emotional abuse, I just don't know how to get over it. I don't even want to go and achieve, because I am so angry and it feels senseless to run after things. Anyone with me?

EDIT: just realized it's exactly what you are talking about antynomy


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> Yes it is true, it's a snake biting it's tail, but it is only because you have an unresolved, unformulated issue in you, which you project onto other things. But don't ever think that DP means you are downright fucked up and less than others.
> 
> Because you just probably need to understand that ONE or two key mechanisms in yourself, and you will be cool.
> 
> An early childhood issue and unresolved childhood trauma can do this, because we project that feeling onto everything. So we end up thinking we are crazy, weak, stupid, etc.. start to have 100s of fears, when in reality, it is only ONE, unresolved, deep fear. When that gets resolved, the phantom fears go away.


These are the words that give me hope Fearless. Thanks. YOu're 100% true that we project the feeling onto everything, and it is fucking abrasive and weakining, because like you feel inadequate and sad and wanting to cry for stupid things and life gets a lot HARDER than it should be just because of this projection.

PS I'm not writing all this to sing the poor me victim song, it's just a relieve to know that all these phantom fears, and disappointments are not true. Otherwise life would be too hard


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

I am desperately looking for that ONE mechanism. I feel that it is 100% true. Even Harrington says it, that it often times takes just 1 or 2 unformulated parts to repersonalize and stop being afraid of everything. On a conscious level you know that there is nothing to be afraid of, but it still keeps going and makes you feel worthless. I am really grateful I found dpseflhelp and Harrington's site. I can see now why people have DP for 20 years. If you don't have the proper guidance you are fucked. I will be forever grateful to you fearless.


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## comett (May 5, 2011)

philandrjack

i think you might be stuck because you have this very old and outdated and firmly established pattern in your brain that you are using for your current reality (its not a conscious choice however)

your earliest memories of feeling safe and loved (or not) are not matching your current experience of being loved. i am like that too.

i think we have to work very hard on on that "disorganized attachement" concept that Harrington talks about because even in recovery from dp this part of my brain patterning gets me in trouble still sometimes...it is a very stubborn better to break forever. so i have to keep chipping away at it.

i am not convinced it is easily dealt with because it is so deeply embedded in our earliest memories as humans. in my case was mother was traumatized two months before i was born then went into a depp depression during my earliest months. my old brain patterns try to convince me of all kinds of untrue things based on those ingrained, preverbal memories so i work hard on "over-writing" them in therapy and by myself too


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## seafoamwaves (Sep 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> THIS.
> 
> Need to repeat this: this is a very old and very outdated pattern. The fact that you dissociate now DOES NOT MEAN that you can't handle your current experiences and your life.
> 
> It's like you once in a war, you put up a bulletproof vest because you fear for your life, but now you are in disney land, nobody wants to kill you but you're still in that vest, and can't move.


LMFAO at that metaphor, that's hilarious. Sadly, true though


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## seafoamwaves (Sep 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> Yes it is true, it's a snake biting it's tail, but it is only because you have an unresolved, unformulated issue in you, which you project onto other things. But don't ever think that DP means you are downright fucked up and less than others.
> 
> Because you just probably need to understand that ONE or two key mechanisms in yourself, and you will be cool.
> 
> An early childhood issue and unresolved childhood trauma can do this, because we project that feeling onto everything. So we end up thinking we are crazy, weak, stupid, etc.. start to have 100s of fears, when in reality, it is only ONE, unresolved, deep fear. When that gets resolved, the phantom fears go away.


btw Fearless, what do you think your deepest fear was? Based on what I've read from you blog was it related to your father?


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## seafoamwaves (Sep 20, 2013)

Fearless said:


> you hit the freaking nail on the head.
> 
> What was down there, which I was utterly scared to face, is basically me, the image of me, the beliefs about myself related to my father. For example, I thought my life is a wasted life because "my father has money". It's not like he is a millionaire, he lives on the 10th floor and don't even drive a car, but in my mind, for some reason I had this image that he is RICH, he is so great, created all the financial resources I need, and I felt like a worthless nobody, whose life is totally meaningless. Like, life's only meaning is to chase money, but if my father can give me money to buy a car, what I am living for? how I could be proud of myself after all? My whole life is my father's achievement, my job is easy.
> 
> ...


Wow, I hope someday I have a realization similar to this. So do you feel that an insecurity like this happened way earlier in your childhood than you probably assumed?


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## comett (May 5, 2011)

philandrjack

you have to try to do two thinhs simultaneosuly and it is not easy when you have DP to do them but here goes:

1) look for that one thing Fearless mentioned ....the core thing that messed you up originally

(and dont be surprised if its very hard to find because your DP keep you from seeing it! DP is a protection device, remember?)

2) try to ignore the often very LOUD voice in your head that is the DP voice becasue that voice is not real: it is a total trick of your brain chemistry on you

make sense?

and

3) if you cant do numbers 1) and/or 2) try to just relax and practice simple distraction techniques

when i was really young with DP (14) i used to watch endelss episodes of "superman" LOL

it made me feel safer i guess


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## philandrjack (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks, comett, your help is deeply appreciated ! 

I am able to ignore the voice and obsessions etc. it's just it's tiring to have all these messed up emotions inside me that are apparently unrelated to anything and also the distractibility when you have DP is really annoying as I am studying in university and have to concentrate a lot


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## comett (May 5, 2011)

your welcome philandrjack!

i am not sure I would agree when you say your emotions are "messed up" as DP is all about messed up thoughts covering real emotions

and feeling those emotions is one of the keys to recovery

i totally get what you're saying about studying! to do this day I can be distractable and hate concentrating on anything "boring"

(mostly means factual information. LOL)

today i was making a sheet for my students and wrote the numbers 1, 2, 4, 3  i do that a LOT especially with numbers

c


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