# The Existential Thinker Thinks himself into a Mess



## Urushiol (Jul 8, 2007)

Hello,

I was very thankful that I stumbled upon this forum when searching the web for any information regarding DP/DR.

I feel I have had intermittent bouts of DP almost my whole life, but none lasted for more than a few hours, and happened, at most once ever 3-6 months.

In may of this year I had 3 episodes(I will disguse them in detail below) of acute DP, the last of which has yet to subside.

I am going to describe in perhaps unnecessary detail my bouts of DP early in life, and those I am experienceing now. I know this may be redundant, as many have done this on this forum, but even if it brings nothing new to the table, it will help me, just to type it out.

My earliest temporal episodes of DP usually were brought on by one of two things:

**Extreme existential thinking* (trying to analyse what the essence of the human mind was, trying to comprehend time on a deeper level that just seeing hands on a clock go round, trying to grasp the scope of the universe, etc.)

**or A moment of intense anxiety*

At the time i was much younger, and had almost no way of explaining what i was experiencing. I did see a doctor about it, but i was only able to describe it as "foggyness, lightheadedness" and he told me i was fainting, and having panic attacks.

I had not had any of these episodes in the last 4 years, and i was beginning to think they were gone for good. I couldn't have been farther from the truth....

I was raised in a Christian household, so naturally that was my default belief system. Almost as far back as i can remember, i have been interested in cosmology, and biology. I planned on starting college this fall, and i began to study up, to be better prepared.

In doing so, i had to face the evidence against my faith. After rationally weighing the evidence, i concluded that, as far as i could tell, science was right, and my religion was not.

Now, at first i was ok with this. I managed to sulk on in a depressed state for a few days, until one day at work, the implication of existence without God hit me head on. I had never realized it until then, but I was using God as the answer to all my existential questions. With out Him, my reality broke down, and everything from language, to my own self, the human mind, my body, the whole universe seemed unreal, it seemed wondrous and awesome, yet at the same time unbelievably overwhelming.

I recovered from this, only to have it happen 2 more times, seemingly without being induced by my existential thinking.

The first time was 2 days later when i was riding my bicycle, I was on mile 23 of a 25 mile ride, when all of a sudden i was hit with this bizare feeling, like what i was seeing through my eyes was cinematic, like i was seeing it on a movie screen.

I made it back home, relaxed a while, and thought i was going to be ok.

The next day, i went to see a movie, and on the way home the same feeling hit me again, so strong, that i nearly ran off the road.

Over the next few days the symptoms changed some, but never went away. Below, is my best attempt to describe the way i currently feel:

*Psychological Symptoms*

-Inability to feel positive emotion
-reduced empathy
-general apathy
-negativity

-feeling like I'm above or removed from my body.
-body feels fake, dead, or like it doesn't belong to me
-feel like the world isn't real, like is all an illusion
-my reflection in the mirror feels unfamiliar, even though I know its me.
-my own mind feels like its an illusion, or perhaps less than an illusion, more like a fleeting suggestion.

-Almost all people feel unfamiliar, not just a feeling like i dont recognize them(because i do, i am always aware of their names, what they were like, what they do for a living etc.) but almost like the human form is unfamiliar.
-Feeling like my whole life up to this point i have been asleep, or partially asleep, not really aware of the magnitude of the of the human experience, unaware of how profound our own sentience and sapience. I feel as if everyone else is not aware of the astonishing this is.
-Almost everything induces racing existential thoughts. Even when typing, I'm thinking"how does my mind instantly translate my thought into language, the language into letters, then transpose the letters into the formate of the keyboard, and then move my digits accordingly.
-feel like i might disappear at any moment, and arrive at some other place, that wouldn't seem fake.

-loss of all goals, except maintaining my sanity.
-inability to focus, or concentrate on important tasks.
-feeling of impending doom, like I'm dying right NOW, and there is nothing i can do about it.
-feeling like either the world is slipping away and becoming insignificant, or that I am slipping way, almost as if my physical substance is dissolving.

*Physical symptoms*

-extreme feelings of exhaustion.
-constant dull headache, right in the crown on my head, as if someone is pushing down on it.

-Sleep

While dreaming, i do not feel DP/DR, i feel completely normal, its almost as if "real" life, and my dreams have switched places, my life seems dreamlike, and my dreams seem real.

I experience great difficultly in getting my brain to slow down at night, enough to sleep.

I know this is a lot to read but thanks for staying with me. I have almost all this symptoms 24/7, but they can spike up, with out warning, and almost "flash" over me. When they do, it feels like i am totally gone from this universe and i am present somewhere else, for 0.5-2 secs. When this happens, at first, its almost euphoric, for some unexplainable reason, then its pure, distilled hysteria. I just want the feeling to stop.

I am fully aware that *nothing* about the world has changed, and that it is only my perception of the human experience. I know i am not leaving my body, i just wish i could stop feeling this way.

So far, i have been to 5 different doctors, had blood tests, 3 psychiatric evaluations, and a CT scan. I am scheduled currently for an MRI, tilt table test, and an EEG.

I'm just so terribly scared that I'm never gonna be able to feel human again, and even if i don't, that I'm not gonna be able to deal with living this way. If i have to, i will, and maybe with time, it can even become comfortable, and i can enjoy life again.

Do you all believe this symptoms are consistent with DP/DR? and do any of you have a DP/DR experience that mirrors mine?

Urushiol


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## szeret (Aug 7, 2007)

Yeah, this week I did a lot of existential thinking and really buggerd my self up. I've never had DP (i think) up until now. Its extreamely un nerving. I never thought philosophy even on an already depressed mind would be so damageing.


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## the1calleddrew (Aug 5, 2007)

_Do you all believe this symptoms are consistent with DP/DR? and do any of you have a DP/DR experience that mirrors mine?_

Oh, they mirror alright. Everything I see is a movie. All the time. This is DP my friend.


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## Oriel (Aug 18, 2007)

i felt i had to reply to this, as what you describe matches me quite well
i'm not sure how religious you've been in the past but it is possible to have god in your life as well as science.
although i am an atheist and a keen scientist, i believe maintaining a balance between the two is possible, even if it might mean you have to disregard certain evidence to the contrary.
although it sounds like it contradicts science, the denial of 'facts' (when there are too many or seemingly contradictory facts presented) can help to stabilize your brain's problems.

i do a LOT of existential thinking and tend to analyze everything (relationships with family, friends, partners, love, the world, society, the universe) and i have come to a singularity that i cannot pass. eventually there is a point, before the big bang, that science and speculation cannot yet answer and maybe never will.

was there a god before this who started it all?
does it matter either way?
its a matter of faith, you either believe or you don't. i have chosen not to believe but many choose the opposite.

the basis of existential belief is the single question:
why are we here?
i have found answers for myself (of which i shall not go in to detail for as they are comparable to a madman's rantings) which help me cope with day to day life.
my research in to religion, theology, society, communities, interpersonal relationships and the human brain have allowed me to answer that question to a level i am satisfied with.
i am a firm believer that education is the best way to deal with the existential angst. you obviously seem like an intelligent person interested in educating yourself, PLEASE DON'T EVER LOSE THAT.

i may not have helped you at all but i wanted you to know that you're not alone =)

feel free to PM me if you want to hear any of my madman philosophies =)


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## Urushiol (Jul 8, 2007)

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Its been a while since I have posted any on here, I have been fairly busy with doctors, work, and other such things.

I have to admit that in the time elapsed since my posting, I have stabilized, in a particular sense. I have realized that, as far as I can tell, I'm not getting worse. My reality testing has remained completely in tact, and I have being able to preform my duties at work with, at least some degree of adequacy. I have excepted that, fortunately I'm not going to spontaneously lose whats left of my mind.

I am much relieved to hear that some of you can relate, as that has been my second biggest fear in this(the first being the fear of further erosion of my sanity), is isolation. As much as it troubles me to know there are others that feel the way I do, it helps me to carry on.

@Oriel

Thanks for your in depth reply. For most of my life I ashamedly must describe myself as a hopelessly narrow minded, super religious conservative. Unwittingly trampling others down, in the pursuit of my own self righteousness.

About 2 years ago, I realized that religion, as I had known it, was unjust, and couldn't possibly be right. I made many changes to correct this apparent discrepancy. I also became more mindful of things of the scientific nature, and did for a while sail along smoothly with a nice harmony of science and religion.

I do not wish to debate religion/science in any way, as you know, both sides of the issue eventually come back to the problem of "first cause"; but having said that, I'm not sure if I can return to any of my previous beliefs. Although some part of me, believes it could help, if I could get past the pretension.

Thanks for your further encouragement in the area of education, as this(dp/dr) has been a virtual road block in my academics. It has inhibited my enthusiasm in the mater, but I do hope to resume my studies soon.

I feel that, if there is one thing valuable that I have derived from all this is that, this life is to precious to waist on superficial things, and I believe that things like art, science, and humanitarianistic ventures are the only things worth devoting ones life too.

~rush~


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## ashp (Sep 17, 2007)

"I believe that things like art, science, and humanitarianistic ventures are the only things worth devoting ones life to."

I just found out the other day about DP/DR, and realized I've had it for at least 10 years and I'm 23. I always thought I was just pessimistic when I related to all the existential philosophers who wrote about the "nothingness," and that nobody else actually understood what I meant. And the only way that I could and still can create some sort of livable life is to only focus on the things that I know that I believe...they are exactly those things that you talk about up there. And people don't understand when I say "but none of this other stuff _really_ matters! Nothing material will ever matter." It's so tempting at times to just forget everything I've ever lived up to this point and go reside in the woods, alone, where it would feel more natural to have all the feelings I have. I just want to feel connected to myself, to others, and to this world. I don't remember what that ever felt like.


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## Urushiol (Jul 8, 2007)

Ashp, welcome to the boards, and thanks for replying to this topic.

Whenever I have expressed my negative feelings about materialism, I have always been met with opposition. Most people think that deep down, I'm a spiritual extremist, but I can not see the value in material things. Regardless of your beliefs about the world, one thing is for sure, that we will die. And at that point, our futile hording of things we perceive as "ours" will be undone.

I think its coincidental you said something about retreating to the woods, and being away from society. I think what this would be like. And can't help but imagine myself enjoying it, no mater how difficult it might be. Sometimes I just get so overwhelmed with the superficiality, and the unrealistic nature of our society. I wish we could all live a life focused on real things, and not what the latest cell phone is, or what the most popular fashion is.

Sorry this post has turned into a bit of a rant for me. :roll: I have just been a bit overwhelmed the last week or so. I appreciate you taking your time to post, it helps me more than anything to know someone can relate.

Sincerely
~Rush~


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## tifftoro (Oct 1, 2007)

call me crazy, but when i think about why and how we are here I just put science and religion together and it gives me my answer...

Religion = God
Science = Intellegence

God + Intellegence = aliens / creators of a higher being

Thus I conclude that we are in fact only an "alien ant farm" if you will... Much like they have created us to watch us colonize as we humans would do with an ant farm...

It seems that the more intellegent humans become the more we realize... After all, apparently we are currently transforming into a state of new understand... Are we all just ants slowly becoming more aware of our virtual existance? 

Tiffany


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## tifftoro (Oct 1, 2007)

One more thing I want to add ....

When we are examaning things such as wild animals or fish in a tank and they get scared, we tend to say things like "its ok, i'm not going to hurt you..." Then we most often think, if only they could understand then they wouldnt be so afraid...

I try to tell myself the same thing about my existance... If there is something out there of a higher intellegence and they are examining us in the same form as we do on animals, then there really isn't anything to be afraid of.... They aren't here to hurt us...

The only problem is that we are who we are and can only comprehend as much as our brains allow us to. Unfortunately a few of us surpass this limit and are left with unimaginable theories that are far too complicated for the average bear to understand...

I wish I was just insane instead of "too sane", or better yet, I wish I was just an average bear... :wink:

Tiffany


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## Staffy (Oct 19, 2007)

Hi Urushiol (and others)

I am new to this forum and I found this thread very interesting to read.
I have suffered from extended periods of DP/DR since I was ten years old (I am now in my mid forties).

I can remember very clearly the day that these wretched experiences first started. It was lunchtime and I was playing around in my primary school playground. I suddenly felt a jolt, like a small explosion in my brain, and I suddenly felt unreal, detached, very frightened and, as I described it to my parents and doctor at the time, as though I were living in a dream. The onset was very sudden and seemed to arrive out of nowhere. It was my first experience of extreme anxiety and I suffered my first panic attack. I suppose ten year olds are not expected to suffer from such things and my doctor?s conclusion was that what I had described, in my childish way, were flu like symptoms. I often complained to my parent?s hat the dreamy like experience was back but they were very dismissive. As a consequence I invented a group imaginary characters with whom I shared the experiences that I felt I could not share with a real person. I?m not sure that, in the great scheme of things, this really did much to help though I think my little group of ethereal comrades probably helped me through some pretty bad boyhood days. I did read somewhere that people suffering from DP/DR are very likely to have had imaginary friends during childhood though that may be for the same reason that I had them?they were the only ones they could talk to without being told to ?pull yourself together? or being accused of being a hypochondriac.

My experiences since that day have been very similar to many of yours and it is only recently that I have discovered that I am not alone in all this and that this malaise that effects us so profoundly has a name.

In retrospect I can see that my very first episode of DP/DR, whatever it was and for what ever reason it occurred, undermined my ?existential security? so to speak (not that I could have known that at the time) and since then I have, for lengthy periods of my life suffered from most of the experiences that you describe. I suppose as a child our thoughts pretty rapidly turn back to childish things and I recovered in the short term though I suffered DP and panic attacks throughout my teenage years. As an adult I have found it harder to shrug off the feelings of unreality and the extreme anxiety prompted by all of the resulting circular existential thinking.

For quite a few years my DP was pretty mild though I felt pretty close to a panic attack on many occasions. For some reason it seems to have come back with a vengeance his year though its intensity has varied throughout the year. At the moment it is not good hence my visits to this forum.

At the moment I am reading ?Overcoming Depersonalisation and feelings of Unreality? by Baker, Hunter, Lawrence and David (isbn 978-1-84529-554-7) which is a self help book based on cognitive behaviour therapy techniques. It is quite interesting and I think would be a big help to those who are self-motivated and are not being too overwhelmed by their DP/DR.It is available through Amazon and is part of the ?overcoming? series of self-help paperbacks. Not sure if it is available outside of the UK where I live.

As well as the various drugs that I have been prescribed over the years (mostly in my late teens/early twenties) I did participate in group therapy sessions some years ago. The sessions certainly helped.

Sorry that this post is rather personal but I wasn?t sure quite where to start.


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