# Religulous



## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Catholocism _is_ religulous. He is right- men have constructed doctrines and traditions and things not found in the Bible for their own benefit. That's why you have to study it out and figure out what the Bible really teaches as compared to what the priest is telling you. That's why I dont go to church. I cant find one that has it right- they always try to put their own flavor on it.


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

I started watching and saw it was Bill Maher (sp?) and my eyes started bleeding. I hate that man.

*There is one theory missing here. What if faith is hard-wired? And there are a number of theories indicating that faith/or more specifically organized religion is an evolutionary adaptation to our real fear of what happens after death. And most important, it provides community support and unification. It fosters altruism, etc.*

This is nothing new. This applies to all religious practices. And also political parties can be seen as religions without a spiritual faith. But someone who is a Marxist, sees "Marx" as the supreme leader. We need leaders. If you go into a board meeting and someone isn't in charge you will get nothing done. If you want to disseminate information you need a central source from which that information comes.

Would anyone really call Scientology a religion? Well it is classed as such, but many don't see it as such. L.Ron Hubbard called it the Church of Scientology (and he is their "God" so to speak) as a church is tax exempt.

My beef is that FUNDAMENTALIST ANYTHING (religion/politics, etc.) is detrimental. Private faith and Worship in groups that is not harmful to others is what we would see as the ideal.

But human beings (as I see it) are not inherently good. So we constantly get ourselves in a mess.

Church/Synagogue/Temple/Mosque, etc. all provide good thing to a community. When these things mix with the State/with government, or become Fundamentalist (and there is fundamentalist everything -- such as Fundamentalist Islam as practiced by Al Qu'aida, or Fundamentalist Christianity practiced by polygamist Mormon cults, etc., etc., etc.).

I believe in personal faith. Religion or RITUAL gives us structure. Saying that it is completely worthless means one has no clue about human psychology and sociology. One needs to read history, mythology, anthropology, etc. to understand this. Religion and Faith are a part of civilization ... there is no known culture that has existed without some form of religion. None has yet been found -- dead or alive.

Also, @18% of the world are "non-religious" -- you can not "ban" religion. This is what happened in the former Soviet Union. It doesn't work. It's like banning breathing. I believe this way of thinking, this way of understanding and need to understand is a PART OF HUMAN NATURE ... in the grey matter.

You have to look at all sides. Take a look at what is beneficial about a religious practice, ritual, and what is beneficial about Faith.

You don't have to participate. Observe.

Religulous? Is that a word? I didn't get that far. Is that a play on words? Religious? Confused and can't sit through Bill Maher ... remember the bleeding eyes, LOL. :shock:

IMHO.
Just consider: What if religion serves a purpose in society? What if it is part of our nature? Why does it occur universally with similar mythology throughout the world?
D


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

> I believe in personal faith. Religion or RITUAL gives us structure. Saying that it is completely worthless means one has no clue about human psychology and sociology. One needs to read history, mythology, anthropology, etc. to understand this. Religion and Faith are a part of civilization ... there is no known culture that has existed without some form of religion. None has yet been found -- dead or alive.


Totally agree-the big picture is important.Its no good saying any one religion or practice holds the truth, is the truth-, s the only way, when you have an incomplete picture.You have to go deeper and look into it on all levels of being at a deeper level and thourougly before you can even begin to hold any firm ideas of what religion really is.



> Just consider: What if religion serves a purpose in society? What if it is part of our nature? Why does it occur universally with similar mythology throughout the world?
> D


It does occur with similar mythology throughout the world.Christianity came about and was adapted from Pagan practice.The star of bethlehem, its been suggested-(I watched a brilliant documentary on xmas eve about this), was the planet jupitor passing through the pisceon constellation ..The three wise men were magis -the astrologers and magicians of their day.They saw the unusual behaviour of the stars-they followed the movements of various planets and stars in the heavens and to them that meant that the new king would be born--replacing the old king saturn.
In paganism they have the holly and the oak king-there too is the story of the old king dying and the new king coming.In those days our religion was their science and they didnt seperate the two.They lived by the stars and the planets and the sun and the moon etc and saw them as gods or living beings because they observed the influence they could have in our lifes.The sun is required for us to live on this planet-it is in the "heavens" ...in those days crops were hard to grow-bad weather meant starvation so to them the sun was a God to be worshiped-he brought life and sustained it.....Christianity took this story and adapted it into a more royal story of heirarchy and moral highground-they beleived the pagans to be evil because they worshiped animal gods and such like-mundane beasts.They saw their magic as interfereing in what is essential perfect already- they misunderstood!.Paganism is about living in harmony with the world/universe around us and seeing that as sacred.In a sence christianity is the snobery of religions.
Faith, religious practice could well be in our human nature-because when you look at it like that its as much about basic survival instincts in life as it is death.The pagans were very close to the animal kingdom also often dressing up and hoping to gain the animals powers.Animals have their leaders too ,the king of the herd etc...and they fight it out to gain the lead over their packs/herd or whatever.Nowadays too many people only practice a religion in the hope of some reward after death, in those days it was LIFE-it was practiced as a means to survival and to bring civiliation and so fourth.This must still run through our blood.
The ancients greeks with their pandora and goddesses and gods such as Demeter and Zeus ..Gods of the underworld-the subconsciouss..If studied, that "mythical" system is a journey through the psyche of man on all levels.What we now call myth , so many unappreiciate and dont really look into what reality the word myth could actually hold within it, what can be mythical without-outside of us, can exist as a reality within our psyches- Symbolism plays a part in contacting those inner realities.
See people have to veiw and examine the words correctly, what is symbolically true in its reality -pointing to something real-on one level of experience,too many misunderstand without thourougly investigating and take it litterally in the wrong sence also and this causes extremism.Man creates the problems, not religion.

There is also a part of the brain beleived to be connected to religious experience (sorry I forget)-I dont doubt that at all- I beleive its so.But I dont feel that discovery does away with religion or disproves it as many do.I think thats an aspect of religious experience.I dont see spiritual experience as disproving science so why would I think science can disprove religion-I see a healthy mix of the two and on many levels my practice involves a balance of both.I hope that one day we can unite them in the fullest sence.


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## scylla (Nov 5, 2008)

Hmmm. I can't really say if religion itself (as opposed to intitutionalized religion)is beneficial or detrimental to mankind. I'll agree that when kept within the strictly personal choice it may bring good things to the believers.My only problem with it is when someone tries to impose it on me, or judge me as an ethically challenged person when they learn I'm not religious. And I will fight it with all my strenght when the possibility of it being taught in schools as science arises, or when religious lobbys try to make secular governments align to some, any religious belief. 
I fight for my right to hold my atheistic world view without being segregated, but I would fight with the same strenght to make sure all faiths, as long as they don't endanger other people's freedom of belief, are treated equally and given equal rights.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

But here is a problem. Secular religions ... and they are religions if you look at the true definition of religion are manifested in political parties. Which is the "correct" party. And do we force others to have no freedom of choice.

Which is best:

Democracy, Libertarian, Republican, Monarchy, Communism, Dictatorship, Fascism, Socialist, Labor, etc. These are ways of dealing with life/society/distribution of wealth/the economy/law and order, etc. And wars are fought over these, and many other forms of political parties. These secular beliefs are imposed on some countries, voted for in others. And we know of course that liberals and conservatives in the US call each other idiots all the time, which is truly irritating.

No ONE party is the answer. I don't think any ONE spiritual religion is the answer, but we cling to these things, our own groups, our own prejudices as well.

This is who we are as humans. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it is a fact.

Cheers.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Now the threads got locked. I had a lot of questions I wanted answered 

This movie is pretty funny in some parts- just the visual of him talking to jesus is hilarious. He also poses some questions that could really cause some people to stumble. There are answers to his questions though I dont know about other religions- which I was kind of disappointed he left some out.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> There are SCIENTIFIC answers to his questions yes, which he is WELL aware of...
> The making of this movie isn't a QUEST for him, it's about promoting reality.


I meant that issues such as the story of Jesus being possibly copied from the story of Horus- this would cause many Christian's to seriously doubt their faith, however it is an easily resolved issue, just like everything else he brings up. It is wise to doubt religion and what people teach you about it. It's smart to search for the truth yourself, rather than believing in something because your parents taught it to you. He may be promoting reality- but it's his reality.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

The reality is that Evolution is a farce and whether the "majority" of scientists believe it or not makes no difference to the truth. Man is simply trying to put an explanation behind things that excludes God. Evolution did not happen and will not happen.

Yet who decides what reality is? From your point of view reality is x and from my point of view reality is y. Just because you believe x is the truth doesnt mean that it is. The exact same thing can be said about what I believe- but we'll examine the facts in the new thread if it doesnt get locked.

P.S.- what's your obsession with rape examples?


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Ok, let's see if you are atleast legally sane:
> 
> Do you believe that reality is what we observe with our senses and is independant of you? (aka your not omnipotent God like avatar?)


I have been officially diagnosed with Depersonalization disorder. If anything this means that I'm _too sane_.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Now, when everything observed, tested and experimented in REALITY shows results about reality that says evolution happened, *HAPPENS*,....


Except that it doesnt and didnt. As I said we'll formally debate this in the new topic. No point in going back and forth with yes it did/does with no it doesnt/didnt. I am truly interested in studying evolution and whether or not it is false. I currently believe it to be false, but I have quite a bit of information to pull that needs to be examined. For now I'd like to take a break from the debate.

By the way, I've noticed that you're really only a dick in the debate sections. In a lot of instances you seem like a pretty personable guy. You're passionate about what you believe and that's admirable. I dont like how you throw insults in with your posts, but you do offer some good information at times.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

I can only assume that Vinci recommended the movie in the name of the topic. Something which i also do.


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