# DPD that opens the door to more dissociative stuff...



## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

Hi! (waves) I haven't been around here in a while... but I've been REALLY busy with my MSW program.  Anyway, I've been working seriously on my PTSD issues in therapy, and the only problem is, well, I've found that a CBT approach for the anxiety disorder aspect of PTSD works very well... for the anxiety disorder part. However, this has led to my new theory (backed up by a lot of the research lit, too) that at least SOME subtypes of PTSD associated with DPD don't really fit into the anxiety category category at all. They need their own category, but failing that, they would probably fit better into the category of dissociative disorders. I really believe that this PTSD/DPD subtype is a dissociative disorder with the symptoms of an anxiety disorder layered on top of it.

So when the anxiety disorder symptoms started getting really scraped away by CBT, guess what I found! Not just DPD, but some very dissociative stuff. Nothing that goes all the way to DiD, but sort of... it's like very incomplete DiD, and knowing that in the past, during the worst part of the abuse and trauma, I had a lot of even more extreme dissociative amnesia and weird DiD-type behavior (people insisting they'd talked to me when I knew I hadn't talked to them and sometimes didn't know who they were, clothes mysteriously showing up in my closet, things I hadn't written showing up in notebooks, etc.) The weirdest part of all is that there weren't any "sudden recovered memories"involved, or therapist's suggestions, or anything like that... it's so bizarre, I don't know how to even explain it... I remembered these things all along, but somehow I didn't understand what they meant. WEIRD!! I guess the point is that DPD *can* be associated with a greater level of dissociation, which is what I didn't know before, although obviously it often isn't. Has anyone else experienced this?


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Maia said:


> I had a lot of even more extreme dissociative amnesia and weird DiD-type behavior (people insisting they'd talked to me when I knew I hadn't talked to them and sometimes didn't know who they were, clothes mysteriously showing up in my closet, things I hadn't written showing up in notebooks, etc.) The weirdest part of all is that there weren't any "sudden recovered memories"involved, or therapist's suggestions, or anything like that... it's so bizarre, I don't know how to even explain it... I remembered these things all along, but somehow I didn't understand what they meant. WEIRD!! I guess the point is that DPD *can* be associated with a greater level of dissociation, which is what I didn't know before, although obviously it often isn't. Has anyone else experienced this?


Yes, I know what you mean, actually it's more common than you'd think, alot of people here I'm guessing have other dissociative issues including myself. I'm glad you got to the bottom of things Maia.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Hmm what you have written is very interesting to me. I have had experiences similar to the ones that you described. For instance one time a while back I was sleeping on the beach in a bungalow thing me and my friends built. Everyone had to leave early and go to work and so I was the only one still in the bungalow. This girl I knew had come to visit me early in the morning, or so I thought. She smokes camel light cigarettes. I remember hearing her voice outside of the bungalow and her boyfriend popping his head in as she told him to enter. I figured they had decided to show up and surprise me so I pretended to be asleep. Then I remember hearing them outside and thinking they must have decided to go jump in the ocean and hang out since I was still sleeping. Then I fell back asleep because I was very tired. I woke back up later expecting to see them when I went outside of the bungalow but no one was there. There were a few camel light cigarette butts right outside the entrance where I heard them talking and an empty pack of camel lights in the trash right outside the bungalow. I called the girl on my cell phone to see if she was still down at the beach because i knew that I had seen her and heard her that morning. She asked me what I was talking about and said she hadn't gone down to the beach that day. I laughed and thought she was joking when after a while I realized she wasn't and she denied all the way to the end of the phone conversation that she did not go down to the beach that day. She even knows I have DP and a troubled mind so I highly doubt she would ever lie to me and mess with my head. I just still to this day don't understand, was I simply dreaming? Where did the camel light cigarette butts come from and why would they be right outside my bungalow?

Another time a member from this forum that I talk to regularly went on vacation. I thought she had sent me the link to a song from her favorite artist and I was listening to this specific song while she was gone. When she came back I told her I had listened to the song she sent me a lot and then she told me she had never heard of that song. I don't know anyone else who listens to this artist either and it was a very random song. Seriously WTF???

These two instances I have had to question my own sanity far beyond any other DPD related experience.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Maybe both girls in both situations have Dissociative amnesia and don't remember being there or sending the song when they was and did...and you're sane Kenny LOL..... :mrgreen:


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Spirit said:


> Maybe both girls in both situations have Dissociative amnesia and don't remember being there or sending the song when they was and did...and you're sane Kenny LOL..... :mrgreen:


 :roll: Maybe.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2009)

Why'd you keep rolling your eyes at me all the time lately Kenny? :? LOL. I can't take responsibility, I don't remember writing the above post. I didn't write it okay, you imagined it.  :roll:


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Damn. Who wants to go have a smoke? I know I do.


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## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

!!!!!!!

I wrote a LONG post that got deleted!!!! :evil: 
The ONE time I didn't save my post!!!'''

Anyway. I dont' know if I got to the bottom of anything, exactly, but as weird and extremely unsettling and overwhelming as it feels to realize just how much dissociative stuff is going on with me, it was there all along anyway, so I HAD to get to the bottom of it. I feel like I want a teddy bear now. I think I have a stuffed bunny rabbit somewhere... :wink:


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Spirit said:


> Why'd you keep rolling your eyes at me all the time lately Kenny? :? LOL. I can't take responsibility, I don't remember writing the above post. I didn't write it okay, you imagined it.  :roll:


 :roll: :wink:


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

Maia said:


> !!!!!!!
> 
> I wrote a LONG post that got deleted!!!! :evil:
> The ONE time I didn't save my post!!!'''
> ...


Damn don't you just hate it when that happens. That's why I use firefox, if the page crashes or you lose anything, it just brings it back up again..

Obviously it takes time, I know that, but you've got somewhere to start now you have some insight into your dissociative stuff. I know it's overwhelming..and very complex..but once you start it gets easier...you start to make connections within along the way and things come together. It's draining, overwhelming and can leave you feeling very very deflated and actually really traumatised at times........I don't blame you AT ALL for wanting a teddy bear! LOL :wink:

(And Kenny LOL... :roll: )


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## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

And you know, these kinds of things could never get written into movie scripts, because they would be too ridiculously coincidental...

An idiot going the wrong way in the one-way YMCA parking lot WAAAY over the speed limit almost hit me head-on, the only reason there wasn't a horrible accident is because *I* was paying attention. :evil: I kind of like that evil and very mad face... Anyway, that's where a chunk of my PTSD actually came from (far from all of it, though.) Head-on car crash, not my fault. :shock: TEDDY BEAR, STAT!!! STUFFED BUNNY EMERGENCY!!! GET ALL THE STUFFED BUNNIES OVER HERE RIGHT NOW!!!!! CUDDLY FUZZY STUFFED BUNNIES OF DOOM!!!

Ahem. Anyway.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2009)

lol I think I could use one of those cuddly fuzzy stuffed bunnies of doom....myself today. :?


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## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

(hands Spirit a cuddly stuffed bunny)

I am going to have to sit in CBT class tomorrow and listen to the teacher go over the PTSD unit and go on and on about how PTSD is supposedly an anxiety disorder (yeah,I know, that's what the DSM says, what the hell do they know),and how all you need is cognitive-behavioral therapy. No WAY could I disagree more. I spent some time reading the research today about how complex PTSD is actually structural dissociation of the self (that's why it SHOULD be in the dissociative disorders). This is also why the same article argues that the fact that some types of DPD do go along with complex PTSD-- although obviously not all DPD does that-- is more proof that complex PTSD belongs in with the DD's. Well, anyway, actually bringing a stuffed bunny to class would clearly not be a good idea. I think I will just sit quietly and think about happy bunnies hopping around with Easter baskets! :lol:


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2009)

Maia said:


> (hands Spirit a cuddly stuffed bunny)


Thanks, I could do with a punch bag today though, maybe the bunny won't mind. :evil:



> I am going to have to sit in CBT class tomorrow and listen to the teacher go over the PTSD unit and go on and on about how PTSD is supposedly an anxiety disorder (yeah,I know, that's what the DSM says, what the hell do they know),and how all you need is cognitive-behavioral therapy. No WAY could I disagree more. I spent some time reading the research today about how complex PTSD is actually structural dissociation of the self (that's why it SHOULD be in the dissociative disorders). This is also why the same article argues that the fact that some types of DPD do go along with complex PTSD-- although obviously not all DPD does that-- is more proof that complex PTSD belongs in with the DD's. Well, anyway, actually bringing a stuffed bunny to class would clearly not be a good idea. I think I will just sit quietly and think about happy bunnies hopping around with Easter baskets! :lol:


I would agree with complex ptsd being in the scope of Dissociative disorders. At the end of the day though, they're just labels, I'm not sure we need to section and clarify things into different boxes when I think in one way or another they're all linked together. I say this after being diagnosed wrongly several times only to end up back where I started out....


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## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

I had breakfast with a friend on Thursday and we got done really early, so I would've been insanely early for therapy (I was on that side of town.) There's a cool little indy toy store there, and they had a live bunny display.  I got to pet the bunnies. Then... well... I bought a stuffed bunny. I had a story all prepared about how it was for my five-year-old cousin Heather... it was for my inner child, of course... :wink: So I actually DO have a stuffed bunny now.

I agree about the labels issue-- at the end of the day, we're still stuck with what we're stuck with. The thing about PTSD as a dissociative disorder,though, is that I think it would make a big difference in more effective treatment--there are HUGE differences in best treatment between the anxiety and dissociative disorders-- and it could open the door to a lot more awareness about things like DPD, too. I have hardly ever found a clinician who has ever knowingly treated anybody with a specific DPD diagnosis, and if you REALLY want an embarrassing fact, I have yet to meet any in community mental health who even know what it is.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm happy you brought your Inner child a stuffed Bunny, she should have one if she wants one. When I'm that fragile I usually make do with a warm cuppa cocoa or sweet tea and a pillow. :wink: Speaking of which..exhausted.....Will come back later to respond to the rest.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

Maia said:


> So when the anxiety disorder symptoms started getting really scraped away by CBT, guess what I found! Not just DPD, but some very dissociative stuff. Nothing that goes all the way to DiD, but sort of... it's like very incomplete DiD


I forgot to ask but have you heard of DIDNOS? Dissociative identity disorder-not otherwise specified..........it's like DID but but not as severe, it sort of fits the DID criteria but it's not fully DID.



> The weirdest part of all is that there weren't any "sudden recovered memories"involved, or therapist's suggestions, or anything like that... it's so bizarre, I don't know how to even explain it... I remembered these things all along, but somehow I didn't understand what they meant. WEIRD!! I guess the point is that DPD *can* be associated with a greater level of dissociation, which is what I didn't know before


This morning I had some memories come back to me from when I was little, things I had completely dissociated from...and it is very weird, it's like I somehow forgot it, put it away in a room somewhere inside me and locked the door but when I remember it again, it's like the memories were always there all along...but they weren't there...I don't have Dp.d anymore but I do have dissociative issues still, these memories were not very nice ones....I feel like absolute crap today. I dunno whether I want to hug one of those stuffed bunnies or beat the crap out of one.

Re diagnosis's, I think complex ptsd could come under both dissociative disorder and anxiety disorder, I guess it depends what the dominant symptoms are, I mean many disorders have "dissociative features" without being classed as dissociative disorders..complicated stuff. I guess the same is true of Dp.d, is it a dissociative disorder or a an anxiety disorder?....Many people have Dp.d due to GAD which is an anxiety disorder and yet Dp.d is classed as a dissociative disorder, so I'm not really sure.


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## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

DiDNOS? No! How cool, it has a name!!  AND :shock: I've heard of DDNOS but not DiDNOS. That's it. that's exactly how I would describe it... and my therapist says that a lot of her clients with PTSD also have it.

Thank you for sharing about the memory thing... I'm not sure if it's similar to how I would describe mine. Kind of, I guess, except that so far, at least, they're all things I've remembered perfectly well all along without somehow... understanding the significance of them.

DPD is a dissociative disorder in the DSM-IV-TR, not an anxiety disorder, which is exactly where it should be, I think. but there's no question that it can have a lot of anxiety features. I have had DPD with absolutely no anxiety or depression at all, though, which is a very weird feeling.

Hope everything gets lots better! (throws a lot of stuffed bunnies around, for snuggling or punching, whichever!)


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2009)

Maia said:


> DiDNOS? No! How cool, it has a name!!  AND :shock: I've heard of DDNOS but not DiDNOS. That's it. that's exactly how I would describe it... and my therapist says that a lot of her clients with PTSD also have it.


Well Dp.d generally goes hand in hand with things such as DID/DIDNOS.....whether there's any depression or anxiety or not.

I hope things continue to work out for you and you get the answers you need for healing.


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## Maia (Dec 6, 2008)

Thanks Spirit!  I just finished a big project for a class on complex PTSD and the dissociative disorders, and I'm working on another project (the LAST one!) for my Motivational Interviewing class on the use of the Cambridge Depersonalization Scale in a motivational interviewing context. I can basically guarantee that nobody has ever done this yet and written about it in the literature (whether anybody has ever done it anywhere is another question, but rarely, if ever, would be my guess.) We're going to pretty much blow the class's minds, because everyone else is doing substance abuse, and we're going to present info on how over ONE-THIRD of clients admitted to psych outpatient clinics have dissociative disorders, including DPD, less than 5% of which have ever been diagnosed before. If the CDS and the DES were used as routine screening and assessment tools, which could be done at such minimal cost because they're self-tests, it could help to change the way that community health care is conceptualized and delivered. Through both research and experience, I am beginning to believe that undiagnosed dissociative disorders (of which DPD is definitely one) are a huge factor in decades of "revolving door" admissions for clients in community mental health. With correct diagnosis and treatment, enormous amounts of money and grief could be saved. (Maia starts dreaming of research projects....)


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2009)

That sounds awesome. 

I wasn't saying that Dpd wasn't a dissociative disorder earlier on, it's just that it can also be a symptom of anxiety disorders and I'm not sure if I believe it to be a disorder in it's own right, I mean it can be a symptom of other dissociative disorders...I'm wiling to bet that most people with Dp.d have other dissociative issues going on. But in light of raising awareness then yes I agree with you. There isn't enough info on all dissociative disorders. I deleted it earlier on but I was diagnosed with DID in 2003 (I think)..... then I was diagnosed BPD a while later by a different psych who I believe is ignorant about dissociative disorders. I never fitted the BPD diagnosis well enough to receive it, it only summed up some of my problems but not the full picture, I brought it for a while but nopes it just didn't figure in everything..they then suggested bipolar after that because I kept changing and was different all the time.... but it wasn't just mood wise, very confusing . and made it impossible for them to prescribe meds because they would effect me differently all the time and one minute I would need them and not the next.....but bipolar was wrong also and then passes another year of them noting down the "remarkable shifts in me" as they put it and doing shit all else....despite the psychs indecisiveness I know what's going on with me. Just sharing that story to demonstrate how hopeless most psychs are when it comes to anything dissociative....they will happily throw around the diagnosis's of bipolar or BPD etc....There's a recent idea that DID and BPD are similar...I personally think it's simply that psychs find it much easier to throw around the BPD diagnosis than they do the DID one because half of them don't actually even understand or believe in severe dissociative disorders.........sucks. It does need to change you're right, getting the right diagnosis and the correct treatment can sometimes mean the difference between life and death....AND years of a persons life...which seems to mean nothing to these psychiatrists. Really goodluck with your presentation, it's very interesting and exciting too, keep us posted.

Not deleting again lol.


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## daisymay (Oct 4, 2009)

Hi. First post on this forum, so hope I'm not butting into a conversation. I just wondered if anyone has similar experiences to me. I'm dx complex ptsd, but feel I have DIDNOS (if that's the right term) aspects but are not to do with depersonalisation or missing time, more to do with feeling other personalities inside me that are feeling different emotions all at once, some of which are children, some adolescents and maybe some adults, it's very confusing. I space out, but it's my emotions that are hard to manage, not my sense of reality (as far as I know!). At the moment I'm having intensive therapy (three times a week) and it's exhausting - I mean even more than usual, dealing with feeling I'm someone so depressed I can't move, at the same time as being someone all bouncy and chatty and also some few very angry and nasty (but only to me) commentators, plus one who is totally puzzled by it all and find it hard to believe! ( I have ADD too, so organising anything is not so easy at times). It's hard in therapy because they all seem to want to jump out and talk, or else try to stop the "others" jumping out and it's so complicated - like I'm trying to take a gang along to my session! I haven't so far uncovered any new memories, just had very strong emotional reactions to ones I already knew and have told her about. I think having children myself triggers it off - I could not ever imagine in my worst nightmares my children ever ever having to feel the way I did when I was a kid. Sorry if this post seems random and not have a central point or is too long - I felt it related to how you others on this page were talking, but I'm also not very good at using forums and get lost trying to find the right page. Anyway, so cool and nice to read your posts - I looove the bunnies of doom - I use to have a horse called Melrose I loved to bits, and carried everywhere, but I was in my early twenties then and now I'm 47, I'd feel a bit self-conscious, as no-one I know has my dx, and though friends would be kind, - maybe I can and pretend it'smy daughter's? :?


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## daisymay (Oct 4, 2009)

PS
By the way, if anyone does reply, sorry if I don't answer on this thread because I may not find how to get back - I hope I will but I find it a bit confusing, especially as my PC keeps saying something like diagnosis error, you can't get back to this page then I seem to be able to by pressing the back button randomly, but then I lose my place where I am on this site. Hopefully I'll get the hang of it though, but in case I don't big  for everyone here.


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## Noodles (Jun 22, 2009)

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## daisymay (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks Noodles. I guess PM means personal message? Still a real newbie with the techie stuff. :? Welcome hi much appreciated.


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## Noodles (Jun 22, 2009)

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## daisymay (Oct 4, 2009)

Cheers Noodles. I think you're name's cool, too. I love it that I can learn how to do posts etc & use a forum plus talk about this stuff - never to f'd up to learn, eh?? (Can I say f'd up? Guess I'll find out when I press submit!)


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## Noodles (Jun 22, 2009)

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