# Question for FEARLESS?



## branl (May 21, 2010)

Hi, Fearless, Are you telling me every single person who gets dp has a poor child upbringing? Or has been abused in some way?

I am not sure about this, regardless of what happened int he past we cannot change, all we have is now..so how can we possiblly develope a secure base?

The only way I can see developing a secure base, is changing the now, and our belief systems through CBT, and doing things which help our self esteem, etc


----------



## NEEDMOREBLAZE (Apr 8, 2013)

Where did your belief systems and self-esteem issues come from??? I think you answered your own question in your last sentence.


----------



## branl (May 21, 2010)

From my own RESPONSIBLITY in life and incorrect thinking styles.

I am not saying dp is not caused by upbringing, But not every person who has dp has suffered child abuse or any attachment styles.

Some people have been spoon fed most of there life, some people are more sensitive, some peoples thinking styles are incorrect,

EXAMPLE How about a women who has a perfect upbringing, with the best parents, but she also indepedant, she has good thinking styles. she has been taught from a young age who to handle life etc...But then she gets raped? her whole sense of self is ruptured? and then develops dp? how is that related to childhood?

dp can be related to child problems, but not all of it.

To say all dp is related to child hood is ignorant, and there are a lot fo people on here who had great childhoods yet, fuck up along the way, either, jobs, money, stress, LIFE, work, relationships, constant stress is known to cause depression, constant depression= constant anxiety=dp


----------



## branl (May 21, 2010)

Hey, I am just asking, I am just ring to start a conversation with peoples views.

I mean everyone has there ideas, and I think in terms of child abuse or neglect, you are 100 on the button fearless.

But that does not mean everyone who has dp has had child hood issue's.

I consider my self to have had a stable upbringing other than the fact, I was spoilt only child


----------



## branl (May 21, 2010)

ok, but how do you defined normal? normal can mean anything? its only rules we and our parents adopted from years of indoctrination from society, tv, people, goverments etc

There really is no such thing as normal, normal is what most people who have been indoctrinted into a belief system.

Of course, sexual abuse, and violence is not normal to a child and if the child has been through that, then dp and all sorts of things can occur.

Well I can think for my self, and I know by my own normal standard , what ever normal is, I consider my self to be brought up with best intentions, I never had fear in me. I can pretty much define normal in terms of how I was brought up though.

But regardless of the past however wonderful or bad, we have the pwer to change our now, what we do now. you cant rewrite over patterns that have been inbedded in all us..but you can be more aware and change unhelpful style of thinking in which our parents indoctrinted in to us..ie thinking for our selfs.

sorry about my shit spelling!


----------



## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

.


----------



## branl (May 21, 2010)

No matter how much people go back to the past, you cant change anything, what done is done..but people can learn unhelpful behaviours and be more aware of things.

every day, we have thing inbedded into us, but if we become more aware of these things, we can challenge them for the better.

Just my take anyway


----------



## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

.


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> The only way I can see developing a secure base, is changing the now, and our belief systems through CBT, and doing things which help our self esteem, etc


Like I've been saying, it's extraordinarily simple.

If you lack a "secure base", you are insecure. So how do you become secure?

Replace bad habits with good habits - as you said, "doing things which help your self esteem."

It's all extremely simple - you just have to be patient and consistent.

But there's a catch - you have to stop lying to yourself - only then will you dare to do what's necessary to help your self-esteem.

Because otherwise you'll just lie to yourself - "oh no, I can't do *that*!"

I guarantee everyone here can fully and permanently get rid of DPD within a year.

Most people just don't believe they can do the things that are needed for that to happen.

So make that leap. Take that risk.


----------



## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

.


----------



## branl (May 21, 2010)

I agree, my uncle had what I consider the worst child hood, he was sxually abused by his father, and friends of his father to sickening way.

he has never dad dp

but he did develop scizaphenia for some time and put in health care hospital

I consider my self to had a stable child hood, but I was given more than others as an only child., and not at all indepentant, mummy cuddled.

I consider my dp to be the cause of my thinking styles and the way I handled life.


----------



## branl (May 21, 2010)

my dp started when I got depression , then anxiety, then dp. that how mine started.

it was to do with my fears in certain parts of life, and inaduacy I felt insdie my self.


----------



## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

That feeling of inadequacy had to come from somewhere, and you can fix it without understanding why it's broken, but then you run the risk of repeating the same mistakes that got you to that point in the first place. If you don't learn from history, you're doomed to repeat it.


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> it was to do with my fears in certain parts of life, and inaduacy I felt insdie my self.


So you already know the answer - eliminate that inadequacy. Do whatever it takes, be bold, and DP will gradually lift.


----------



## myname (Jul 17, 2013)

I just want to nip into this thread. I strongly believe my dysfunctionalism stems not from abuse or poor upbringing from others per se (in fact I loved my early childhood) but after about the age of 11 or so I consciously chose to disconnect from my peers and spend my youth in social isolation. Why did I do it? quiet simply I did not see the point, despite having a good humor and being very popular I was just so exceedingly introverted I thought I could do without, which was a big mistake, but it only dawned on me in retrospect. Now that I'm in my twenties I have noticed that the hermit lifestyle is not what I actually want from life, but at the same time I'm missing fundamental milestones that should have harbored me into social and emotional maturity, this turned me into a very volatile personality, along with inborn sensitivity. But there is nothing to blame but myself. I had the qualities and the doors for a 'healthy' adolescence (and hence, presumably, adulthood) but I did not take advantage of it.

I still retained my childhood ability to charm and some other positive social qualities but I still feel completely inadequate and cannot from lasting friendships or romantic partnerships, this frustrates me and others who start out liking me, because as soon as anything goes beyond acquaintanceship I erect a barrier and become cold and instinctively withdraw, simply because I never learned how adult relationships work. My hermit-like adolescence also started out the dissociative symptoms as a coping strategie, but now that I'm finally trying to re-integrate I just noticed so many deficits, another big one being stress coping strategies, which is further fueling my dissociation at the moment.

Just thought I'd list my story, which in a certain way is a poor upbringing, but it was self imposed.


----------



## Guest (Jul 18, 2013)

Just gonna throw it out their; people act like fearless is saying everyone who's ever had childhood issues should have DP, but he's really saying that people with DP have childhood issues. These are two different statements.

It's like someone saying "Alcoholics we're likely abused as children." and then everyone else saying "but not everyone who suffered child abuse is an alcoholic!"

I see a lot more people say :"not everyone who was abused as a child has DP!" then the much more sensible "Not everyone with DP was abused as a child"


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> but at the same time I'm missing fundamental milestones that should have harbored me into social and emotional maturity, this turned me into a very volatile personality, along with inborn sensitivity. But there is nothing to blame but myself.


You're not missing anything you can't acquire now.

Just, you know, start doing it. What do you do if you're not a social person? Socialize. Start slow - listening to people is easy. Everyone wants someone to listen to them. It's a process like anything else, and you can start doing it at any age. You just have to want it.


----------



## Guest (Jul 19, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Jul 19, 2013)

_*.* _


----------



## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

myname said:


> I just want to nip into this thread. I strongly believe my dysfunctionalism stems not from abuse or poor upbringing from others per se (in fact I loved my early childhood) but after about the age of 11 or so I consciously chose to disconnect from my peers and spend my youth in social isolation. Why did I do it? quiet simply I did not see the point, despite having a good humor and being very popular I was just so exceedingly introverted I thought I could do without, which was a big mistake, but it only dawned on me in retrospect. Now that I'm in my twenties I have noticed that the hermit lifestyle is not what I actually want from life, but at the same time I'm missing fundamental milestones that should have harbored me into social and emotional maturity, this turned me into a very volatile personality, along with inborn sensitivity. But there is nothing to blame but myself. I had the qualities and the doors for a 'healthy' adolescence (and hence, presumably, adulthood) but I did not take advantage of it.
> 
> I still retained my childhood ability to charm and some other positive social qualities but I still feel completely inadequate and cannot from lasting friendships or romantic partnerships, this frustrates me and others who start out liking me, because as soon as anything goes beyond acquaintanceship I erect a barrier and become cold and instinctively withdraw, simply because I never learned how adult relationships work. My hermit-like adolescence also started out the dissociative symptoms as a coping strategie, but now that I'm finally trying to re-integrate I just noticed so many deficits, another big one being stress coping strategies, which is further fueling my dissociation at the moment.
> 
> Just thought I'd list my story, which in a certain way is a poor upbringing, but it was self imposed.


Hello there,
I understand when you say that your isolation kept you from having the milestones that would have made you more 'personalized'. Is the key to beating this thing connecting with our fellow man because if that's the case it's going to be an uphill battle, for me personally at least. I find that the majority of people I meet have alot more dysfunction going on than I do and that's one of the many reasons I isolate myself. I have this underlying belief that people are way more damaged than I am (life experiences did this to me) and could potentially wreak more havoc in my life which only contributes to that 'world is unsafe' feeling that doesn't allow you to have the secure base that is desperately needed to thrive. At the same time though, I feel that those that have their lives together wouldn't give me the time of day if they got any hint that I was floundering. So there is no potential for any support network in my mind-apart from this site! Truly connecting to people can only be done when one is vulnerable such as in committed relationships but as I've said, those are hard to come by these days and so that secure base remains elusive.


----------



## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

fearless you are amazing...can you also split open the Red Sea?


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> But it isn't that simple. It is so complex, in many situations we may never determine "one specific cause" for a problem and hence there is no specific clear-cut treatment.


Actually, it is simple. It's extraordinary simple. What complicates things is that human beings are prone to denial and blind-spots, and frequently the smartest and most talented among them.

You don't even need a psychologist if you can be honest with yourself. Most people just can't, that's why they need a psychologist. The answers are always blindingly obvious. Every single person here knows what it would take for them to get rid of DP because every single person here knows which perceived inadequacy was going unaddressed before onset of DP.

They know it - they just have a massive fear barrier as far as dealing with that inadequacy. They've blown it up into something big and scary, and don't think they can handle it.

DP is just life's way of saying GET OVER YOUR FEARS. It's that simple.


----------



## Guest (Jul 21, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Jul 21, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Jul 21, 2013)

.


----------



## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Haumea said:


> Actually, it is simple. It's extraordinary simple. What complicates things is that human beings are prone to denial and blind-spots, and frequently the smartest and most talented among them.
> 
> You don't even need a psychologist if you can be honest with yourself. Most people just can't, that's why they need a psychologist. The answers are always blindingly obvious. Every single person here knows what it would take for them to get rid of DP because every single person here knows which perceived inadequacy was going unaddressed before onset of DP.
> 
> ...


I think that's the bottom line. The first part is about getting out of enmeshment so you can figure who you are and what you want. It's easier said than done because when you haven't had your needs met because you've been too focused on the needs of others, you'll have to work extra hard to find yourself and allow yourself to be yourself. The second part is just not letting your fears prevent you from accomplishing your goals. I have concluded that a big contributor to my dp was the fact that as a kid I wasn't allowed to be expressive or have opinions, I was seen but not heard. If a peep was heard out of me I was really berated in a humiliating fashion. And through it all I am still the first one to be there for them. I truly wish that I had this epiphany sooner that just because two dysfunctional people decided to bump uglies and have you doesn't mean you have to endure their dysfunction in the form of abuse towards you. Some people are wise enough to realize this and leave home ASAP. Others are too dependent that they remain enmeshed and allow their fears to not allow them to do what is needed-get away from the source of pain. That's the difference between those that get dp and those that don't. Some are innately driven to pack up and leave the second they are mistreated and others would rather stay and try to appease their abuser and again that's the difference. It seems like the brain in fear mode cannot think rationally and be cooperative to one's best interest.


----------



## ph10 (Nov 24, 2012)

I just want to add my voice to this discussion. I'm now almost fully recovered after an 8 month struggle with DP and I've completely uncovered why I have it and since then, how to get rid of it.

Fearless is completely right that DP can happen to people with child abuse, but for people who have it as an anxiety symptom or weed reaction etc... your brain chemicals are perfectly able to rebalance at ANY time if it weren't for the fact that you're constantly reinforcing your DP symptoms with your own thoughts. You wake up in the morning? First thing you think about. Going to bed at night? You're so anxious about it that it keeps you awake. Throughout the day, any time you wish you can feel an emotion, you prevent the emotion from coming through because the anxious thought "I should be feeling something right now" overpowers it, continuing the chemical shift of DP.

A main function of this chemical shift is a response the repressed emotions or trauma, and it will go away once the trauma is resolved and the repressed emotions come out. Fearless nails that one better than anyone on the forum, and mad respect goes to him for helping people with abuse and resulting DP. But it CAN happen for other reasons, and if you can't think of any trauma in your past, then it'll do no good to go convincing yourself that you have buried trauma in your past when in fact, all this is doing is reinforcing your anxiety in the first place. With all due respect, the reason most people have DP for so long is because they believe they'll have it forever - a thought which would naturally cause anxiety in ANYBODY, dp'd or not. The believe that your whole life is stolen and wrecked, and you'll never be back in reality. Whatever your reason for DP, that belief is BULLSHIT.

If you have emotional trauma or dysfunctional upbringing, you can resolve your traumatic experiences and reenter reality a better person. If you got it from another disorder, a bad drug experience, or even if you don't know how you got it - you can reroute your anxious thought process and let DP go. In the past week I've proven to myself that this is possible. I fell head-over-heels in love with a girl, and my thoughts turned positive through the roof. I hadn't felt something this strong since I got DP, and the positive thoughts completely overrode the negative ones about DP - and I've spent the past five days almost symptom free. Maybe I'll have a 1 minute snap back to DP when my thoughts return to it out of old habit, but I broke the thought process and everything I had before DP is returning.

In conclusion, what I want to say is this. The brain is a REMARKABLE healer, and without a stimulus, it would never maintain a dissociative state as anything but a TEMPORARY response to either trauma, another disorder, or drugs. Eliminate the thoughts or trauma and it WILL go away.

Good luck to everyone.

-Penn


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

Sid,

It's simple.

Do you know your needs? Make a list of what you *really* need. Be honest with yourself.

Then you're going to experience a fear reaction - "oh, no...I can't have that! That's too hard, scary..."

Then pick one such item of the list...and go do it anyway...just take a leap of faith. Jump in. And keep doing it. Over and over.

That'll start you down the road to recovery.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

wise said:


> I think that's the bottom line. The first part is about getting out of enmeshment so you can figure who you are and what you want. It's easier said than done because when you haven't had your needs met because you've been too focused on the needs of others, you'll have to work extra hard to find yourself and allow yourself to be yourself. The second part is just not letting your fears prevent you from accomplishing your goals. I have concluded that a big contributor to my dp was the fact that as a kid I wasn't allowed to be expressive or have opinions, I was seen but not heard. If a peep was heard out of me I was really berated in a humiliating fashion. And through it all I am still the first one to be there for them. I truly wish that I had this epiphany sooner that just because two dysfunctional people decided to bump uglies and have you doesn't mean you have to endure their dysfunction in the form of abuse towards you. Some people are wise enough to realize this and leave home ASAP. Others are too dependent that they remain enmeshed and allow their fears to not allow them to do what is needed-get away from the source of pain. That's the difference between those that get dp and those that don't. Some are innately driven to pack up and leave the second they are mistreated and others would rather stay and try to appease their abuser and again that's the difference. It seems like the brain in fear mode cannot think rationally and be cooperative to one's best interest.


Ha! I packed up and left multiple times since I was 15 but ultimately I got out at 18 because I was still in school and did not have a proper job to help me financially.. I was actually the opposite I didn't rely on my parents for jack shit.


----------



## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Ha! I packed up and left multiple times since I was 15 but ultimately I got out at 18 because I was still in school and did not have a proper job to help me financially.. I was actually the opposite I didn't rely on my parents for jack shit.


MissJess, with the emotional abuse from them gone, your sole focus is on slowly but surely eliminating those others factors that trigger your dp without the adversity of abusers and their bs.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Wise

Because I sort of went the opposite way to being dependent on my parents I need to work on learning to rely on people and trust ppl.
And in all honestly I don't actually dissociate anymore if I'm triggered my someone having a go at me, I can stand up for myself I still feel a bit of fear inside me but I do it. I still have repressed emotions to resolve that's my dilemma


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Namely a lot of hurt


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> Because I sort of went the opposite way to being dependent on my parents I need to work on learning to rely on people and trust ppl.


So you know the answer as far as how to get better.

Dwelling on the past, seeing yourself as a victim is a big no-no. Your biggest issue as far as lack of trust seems to be that you are unable to benefit from the guidance of others because you are constantly questioning and analyzing and comparing their suggestions to those of others, so you are never actually able to seriously put it in practice and allow it to bear fruit. This leads to an inconsistent and frustrating existence because you have difficulty following through on your ideas.

Consistency is your savior - when you begin to persevere and stick to a course of action regardless of moods or feelings which lead you to question it, you will get rid of DP fully and permanently.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haumea said:


> So you know the answer as far as how to get better.
> 
> Dwelling on the past, seeing yourself as a victim is a big no-no. Your biggest issue as far as lack of trust seems to be that you are unable to benefit from the guidance of others because you are constantly questioning and analyzing and comparing their suggestions to those of others, so you are never actually able to seriously put it in practice and allow it to bear fruit. This leads to an inconsistent and frustrating existence because you have difficulty following through on your ideas.
> 
> Consistency is your savior - when you begin to persevere and stick to a course of action regardless of moods or feelings which lead you to question it, you will get rid of DP fully and permanently.


Haumea you are right, I do have a shit attitude currently I am stubborn and impatient as hell it does seem the longer u are in it the more angry and frustrated u get. Especially when u had already done all the work and were out of it. But yeah hopefully one day soon I'll get a grip and put this behind me.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what ur saying about constantly comparing ideas tho? Explain .... I'm just merely commenting


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Patience is not a quality I have unfortunately. However when I put my mind to something I committ 110% I need to find the fire I once had in earlier years of DP to conquer this shit


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

The upside is I don't post on the forum looking for sympathy and pitty and I certainly don't want that i


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> I'm sorry but I don't understand what ur saying about constantly comparing ideas tho? Explain .... I'm just merely commenting


It seems to me that due to your lack of trust, you have difficulty accepting someone's guidance.

So you're constantly looking at alternative ideas. Since you can always find a suggestion that is the opposite of another suggestion, this prevents you from giving any suggestion or plan sufficient time, to see if it works. When powerful moods or feelings come, you get knocked off course.

One thing I've learned in the past month is that there's something that is a universal law of human psychology -

*The longer you're stuck in some negative or undesirable state (and DP certainly fits the bill), the more radical the change has to be in order to break out of it.* So you literally have to *dare* to do things you haven't been able to do till this point.

That's how you will know you're on your way to permanent recovery - you're doing totally new things you've been afraid to do upto this point and you're discovering that your fear was imaginary, not real. You're basically going, "shit, what the hell was I scared of? This isn't bad at all!"


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

It's not that I don't trust ppls knowledge and ideas but I know me, if I don't have the drive I won't do it. As I said I need to find my motivation and fire again.

Haumea I done all those things in the past already...faced all my fears even conquered fear of abandonment as I said I done the work to get out if this. That's why I feel so dam frustrated. Anyways I'll find the desire again I hope


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> Haumea I done all those things in the past already...faced all my fears even conquered fear of abandonment as I said I done the work to get out if this. That's why I feel so dam frustrated. Anyways I'll find the desire again I hope


If you've done a lot of work that means you are getting *close* to accomplishing your goal.

That's why frustration is particularly counterproductive. Just as you're getting closer and closer to something, you throw your hands up and become demotivated. You cannot allow yourself to be so focused on getting rid of DP that any negative mood can come by at any moment and knock you off course.

Don't focus on getting rid of DP - focus on *doing it (your life) right* for its own sake. Non-attachment. If you approach it like that, you'll have greater success.

You're entangled in a paradox - the more you desire to get rid of DP, the harder it is. You're too desirous of it. You should do the things that will help you recover without actually being attached to the outcome - in other words you have to *surrender*.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Yeah I know your right and I completely agree .... I have not been "surrendering" and what's worse is I let it become an obsession.

I just miss my spirit that is all I miss the carefree girl that I once was and I am going through a strong desire to be one with my spirit and put this shit behind me, when I cry it's because I'm longing for the other part of myself to be back connected with me.

When I got out of this bullshit before I had a taste of that and what it felt like to have "something inside" now that it feel separate again I feel really angry, frustrated, sad and yeah just plain annoyed and depressed.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I know uve been in this a lot longer then I have, I guess I find it more difficult because I can still remember what it was like to be my normal self and that just kills me


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks for all your advice tho I know ur right and I'm not going to argue,it's purely me just being a stubborn mule at the moment.


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> I know uve been in this a lot longer then I have, I guess I find it more difficult because I can still remember what it was like to be my normal self and that just kills me


Well, I guess it's easier for me in the sense that even before I had DP, I was never "normal." Life was *not* pleasant by any means.

I had major social phobias, lacked self-confidence in crucial areas, was majorly co-dependent and so on. So this process has been addressing *all of it*, not just DP - my whole dysfunctional life. It's been an awakening after being entranced since I can remember.

Because ultimately DP is just icing on the cake.


----------



## NEEDMOREBLAZE (Apr 8, 2013)

I think people underestimate the power and effect that human emotion has on the body and the mind. You may not have had a stereotypical traumatic childhood, but more than likely you never learned how to process your emotions very well and how to value yourself in this crazy world. What i have learned is that repressed emotions don't just go away, the energy from them hides in our bodies and in times of extreme stress or trauma these "buried" emotions rise to the top. This rise creates a wave of emotion so powerful that our mind simply has to create a defense mechanism in order to survive it and therefore DP introduces itself. It's up to the individual to seek out this emotion to process it, understand it, and ultimately release it. I recently discovered the roots of my negative energy, the tears that flowed were overwhelming to me and my brain literally hurt after crying.

I have not cried that hard since childhood and the one thought that ran through my head was "it's always been me", "no one else but me"...which sums up the sense of isolation I felt as a child when i was bullied, did poorly in school, and my parents were simply to busy trying to provide for me as opposed to listening to the pain that i was going through. I understand this disorder more than ever after living through it this time around....everything FEARLESS preaches about it is accurate.


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2013)

.


----------



## NEEDMOREBLAZE (Apr 8, 2013)

When a young human being is left feeling as if their emotions don't matter, they become very good at suppressing them. The more they SUPPRESS emotion, the harder it becomes to EXPRESS. When you don't know how to EXPRESS emotion properly, it limits a persons ability to develop relationships which in turn leads to more suppression. It is literally a pattern of behavior that forms without us even knowing it exists which causes these emotions to become "hidden" when they resurface later in life.

I probably could have gone through life just fine if it weren't for the PTSD that i developed from multiple break-in attempts at my home, but unfortunately that event bubbled my suppressed emotions to the top and i was forced to deal with them. i actually view my bout with DP as a blessing in disguise now, my mind is clearer and i gained a much better understanding as to why i felt so unimportant and lacked self-confidence all these years.

Despite my successful feats in life i was literally stuck in that pattern of thinking I had as a child that my feelings didn't matter, so i became co-dependent and would hold my friends, family, and the women i dated to these ridiculous standards that they could not possibly fulfill.

I have been blessed to understand the things about myself that I do now.


----------



## Guest (Jul 23, 2013)

.


----------



## RichUK (Oct 6, 2011)

As far as Im aware log term DR is caused by anxiety about anxiety 100% . And because you are so anxious about the symptoms your anxiety is causing you stay in a loop.

Fight,Flight or Freeze: some people attack fear dead on; some people panic and run away; some people just freeze and disconnect from things around them.

Anxiety causes all 3 and freezing and disconnecting is DR


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2013)

Just some of my thoughts on some things that have been talked about in this thread..

Yes, we are all a product of our past, be it good or bad. If we need to, and have the desire and drive, we CAN change the way we feel and think. Our brains are plastic and malleable. We can change the 'wiring' in our brains up until the day we die.! Reducing dissociation is about changing our responses and disarming fears. It's not rocket science.

In regards to overwhelming dissociation.. meds are like 'putting a bandaid on a broken arm'. To put it quite simply.. there is no pharmaceutical medication which help to reduce dissociation on a permanent basis. Period.! (My therapist with 22 years experience working with ppl with dd's told me this)

It's been proven many many times that people, even with 'chronic' dissociation can reduce it down to 'normal' levels if the right methods are used.

P


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2013)

Sid said:


> so does you're blog have the cure? You're basically says face your fears but when someone does they might be in such self doubt and their inner monolague might be like sfaasfasfsa its impossible. Also it might make the situation worse. What if you're blank minded and try to start a convo. Words mean nothing just a complete nod. It makes you feel more like shit.


 Hi Sid,

You need to take baby steps in healing. If you and or your therapist goes too fast, you can feel worse and messed up. Take your time in healing. Therapists need to aware of this as well. I had a counsellor for quite a while who was known as a 'gold digger'. ie lets get to the really bad trauma as quick a s possible. Bad, bad bad!

You have to go gentlly.

P


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2013)

Fearless said:


> Look, I offer something that cured me. If you don't like it, don't use it. Very simple.
> 
> Anyway, recovering from DP neccessarily involves feeling worse. You dissociated from emotional pain, what you expect?


Yes.. but just go slowly. Just take your time. Take as much time as you 'feel' you need. No need to make yourself feel too bad. Just take it slowly... and the benefits will be achieved. Listen to your gut/instincts. If it doesn't feel right right, back away, distract yourself. Listen to how you feel.

If there's one thing I've learnt with all this... it is to 'work' slowly.. allow yourself time to understand, and look after your 'selves'. Be kind to yourself. You deserve it, and you'll reap the benefits from a good comprehension of what's really going on within.

Don't underestimate your strength.

P


----------



## Guest (Jul 24, 2013)

Vortimi said:


> I can confirm that. When I finally accept what kind of person my mother really is, I was do depressed, that I thought I will not handle it. The pain was almost unbearable. But "truth may hurt, but delusion harms".


The truth will set you free.

You CAN handle anything. As long as you look after no.1. YOU!.. Just take your time with healing....

Sorry to sound like a 'broken record' about 'going easy' and taking things slowly... but it's the only way.

P


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haumea said:


> Well, I guess it's easier for me in the sense that even before I had DP, I was never "normal." Life was *not* pleasant by any means.
> 
> I had major social phobias, lacked self-confidence in crucial areas, was majorly co-dependent and so on. So this process has been addressing *all of it*, not just DP - my whole dysfunctional life. It's been an awakening after being entranced since I can remember.
> 
> ...


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> i guess my lack of motivation comes from feeling numb...if i didn't have that id be way more motivated to change all of those issues!


I suspect you're an Enneagram type 4 personality (you can take a mini-test on their website to figure it out), so the irony here is that *if* you don't get sidetracked by your feelings - *if you keep doing it anyway, because it's the right thing to do* - you are going to recover fully.

It's basically a test of your consistency and conviction, and if you pass it, you will never need to deal with DP again.



> thanks haumea your advice and honesty is appreciated


I'm rooting for you, and I know you will make it.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haumea said:


> I suspect you're an Enneagram type 4 personality (you can take a mini-test on their website to figure it out), so the irony here is that *if* you don't get sidetracked by your feelings - *if you keep doing it anyway, because it's the right thing to do* - you are going to recover fully.
> 
> It's basically a test of your consistency and conviction, and if you pass it, you will never need to deal with DP again.
> 
> I'm rooting for you, and I know you will make it.


Haha well a long time ago when I took that test I was an ISFP ... Yeah I go by the way I feel mostly which is why I have trouble accepting "numbness"


----------



## aquabella (Sep 16, 2011)

I appreciate your opinion, Fearless, but not all DP is caused by the same one thing. Many factors may come in to play for DP to come forth in an individual and attachment theory is but a single one.

DP can also come about as a mild form of PTSD in an otherwise healthily integrated person if trauma is present at some point in life.

While there are many theories... Here is one of mine that works for me:

Many people are not conscious of their choices or are limited by unhealthy unconscious beliefs/attachments and perceived foundations. They are stuck in a reactive responsive cycle of which DP is an unconsciously activated state within. I theorize that DP may be an unconscious reaction to the loss of self (or sense of self), as a perceived foundation, with the purpose of propelling the individual into higher realms of cognitive/spiritual development either out of need or safety.

The deep unconscious mind identifies as 'self' and is infinite in sensory intelligence. This 'self' is in the constant pursuit of protection and safety from physiological and/or emotional harm and sets up the conditioning that maintains this pursuit. Up to a certain point, maturity level and/or element of wisdom (cognitive development) the conditions of this pursuit work well for us bringing 'self' into conscious awareness through our sensory experiences of cause and effect, ie. if I do A...My 'self' has the sensory experience of B. This gives us the power of reason, polarity, identification and the building blocks of critical thinking, ie. "If I eat all my vegetables I get to have ice cream for dessert--I choose not to eat my vegetables because ice cream isn't nearly as yummy as vegetables are yucky; I won't eat vegetables, ever."

As we identify more and more with our sensory experiences, our sense of 'self' becomes the conscious foundation upon which all things are measured against. Having a strong and healthy sense of self is foundational to further growth and development; it enables us to take the conscious steps necessary into the next levels of development...to know 'self' and be 'self'. At this point, many conditions and steps, set in our previous years, will no longer serve us. Our sensory based conditioning of self needs to be deconstructed, broken or destroyed (spiritually, this is the destruction of ego and embodiment of self as divine) in order to express itself in truth (authenticity) and experience the reality of the universe. In general, healthy levels of detachment from self must be cultivated and nurtured in many steps along the way by choosing alternate foundations within which to function.

I suggest that DP may be an abrupt (traumatic) detachment from foundational self or that healthy levels of foundational self were never cultivated enough to withstand the developmental process of deconstruction. Either way, cultivating alternate foundations has cured me of my negative outlook of DP.

I do not suggest pretending to live life in constant joy, nor do I suggest the ignorance of negative experiences-- ON THE CONTRARY...I suggest creating a foundation through which to function in every day life, good and bad. Work it as long as it works and move on. I suggest a plan to create foundations (sense of purpose) that act more as filters, roles and qualities than unrealistic and boring affirmations. Foundational choices that imply movement to and through events with a sense of purpose, whether positive or negative. I find that guiding my senses through a foundation of purpose enlivens and validates the reality of the experience tenfold. Some foundational/sense of purpose examples I've used are: I see connection to things and relationships that I am actively present to. I am being who I am being whenever I am being. I choose to be the creator of my own life. I decide where to go, what to do, and how to do it. Whatever I'm doing in my life, now, will impact my own and others future appropriately. And the most current of foundations (always stated in the present and is a fact of my existence): I am living in the constant pursuit of happiness for the purpose of serving others. <----definitely my favorite and longest run, so far.

These foundations are as essential and as functional as an arm or an eyeball. They are all functioning presently at the same unconscious level as the 'self' was before we lost it in DP. Maybe we haven't lost 'self' at all...maybe our sense of 'self' sought the protection of the unconscious and our consciousness can no longer sense it. When we stand convicted in a foundational choice...we bring the energy of it to the conscious level and begin to act in accordance with our true nature. With the foundational sense of purpose at work at the unconscious level and foundational choices (actions which support the foundation) being made at the conscious level, the mind is in congruence with itself--each part supporting the other. This is higher mind development and indicated in numerous cognitive developmental studies. This state of congruence can also be called higher conscious, super conscious, heart path, authentic choice, activation of personal divine grace, individuation, etc...

I experience 'self' through my foundational sense of purpose--without it...there is no self and the DP is a pretty crummy experience. I find more perspective and truth based in the reality of life by consciously choosing where my heart wants to take me - I am not limited in choices, they abound everywhere - than any perceived notion of my past (before DP).

I will say one more thing before hopping off my humble soapbox ;o) --"CHOICE IS SIMPLE ONCE YOU CONSCIOUSLY CHOOSE TO CHOOSE YOUR CHOICES!!"

With love and support...

Keep on workin' with what works!

-Aquabella


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Aquabella

What you say is true as I myself reached that state of enlightenment in the past 
Limiting beliefs and perceptions are the cause of DP in my opinion


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Exactly like my father. Do you understand how this created disorganized attachment in you?
> 
> My father was the same. He came home drunk, emotionally abusing me, made me go to sleep with exploding anger in me, and next day he woke up, and acted like a perfect and strong father, or a poor victim father, and bought me physical things so his guilty conscience could get a little piece, until he did it again 3 days later. So I had this repressed, never expressed anger. I was angry towards my "drunk father", but I felt sorry for the one who "loved me". So who I am? Am I a child who has an abusive alcoholic father? or a child who has everything because his father buys it?


Fuck that rlly rings true with me, it's no wonder I have mixed feelings about my father I've always felt angry towards him yet sorry for him at the same time?? Is this wat caused me to create an incoherent way if dealing with conflict? Like for example in the past, I get angry at a friend and then I feel sorry for her moments later ??


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Vortimi said:


> What about ambivalent/resistant attachment? I had more of that rather than disorganized type of it. And there is avoidant attachment too.


Haha I would say I went through every single attachment style until eventually I turned to avoidant with both my parents


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Vortimi said:


> Good for you.


Wow did I sense abit of a bitchy tone there


----------



## Vitellius (Jul 18, 2013)

Fearless, I was raised brilliantly in my own opinion and had good parents - yet I still have bad DP.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Oh ok no worries then! Where are u from again?

Sorry to hear about how ur mother is treating u I'm guessing u haven't managed to move away from her yet?


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Missjess, it's very simple once you understand it.
> 
> 1.) "dealing with conflict" - CONFIDENT people can deal with confilct. People who love themselves, and sure about who they are.
> 
> ...


Yeah I get all of that about loving yourself and being confident etc because I've been there

But I seriously did not know or see how that fitted into the way I dealt with things and situations, I learnt something new it just really highlights a lot of things for me in the past. Fuck this emotional abuse thing really is devastating on a developing sense of self


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Vortimi said:


> Poland.
> 
> No, I haven't. I'm finding new excuses every day.


Ahh Poland I had a friend in high school who is polish. Nice culture and language 

What are ur options ? Do u have any friends who could help u out? How old r u ?


----------



## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Cua said:


> Fearless, I was raised brilliantly in my own opinion and had good parents - yet I still have bad DP.


Keep in mind that maybe you're feeling this way because feeling otherwise would make you guilty?

I'm just saying that well intentioned parents also create DP.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I think the one thing that can create DP is simply a family environment lacking in love & emotional support


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I think it's enough, because hearing different ppls stories on here some come from really abusive homes and others not so much..

I know mine was pretty abusive directly and subtly unfortunately.

The most sad thing is that this "family legacy" gets passed down generation upon generation unless someone resolves it.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

What don't u think I understand ? I believe each of us share similarities in here in terms of emotional abuse and neglect, but everyone has there own unique trauma history.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Vortimi

You poor thing ...I know it's hard when u have no support system and DP !!


----------



## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Fearless said:


> There are a lot of codependent friendships. Both of them act like they are more interested in the other one than they actually are.* They listen, wait until the other tells what it wants, but they really can't wait for the other to shut the hell up, and tell what HE wants to express.*


Jesus I never thought that this was codependent because most of my friends act like this, me included.

It really makes one emotionalyl exhausted.


----------



## AlexFromPT (Jun 26, 2011)

Fearless said:


> Another codependent habit of me was "lying by laughing". My mother called me up, and she was joking and being funny, and I laughed, and talked nice to not ruin her mood, etc.. And I did it unconsciously. On one point, I started to notice that I get sooo tired and emotionally exhausted after these conversations.
> 
> This has two reasons:
> 
> ...


It becomes so automatic you need to catch yourself repressing the emotion.

For example, whenever I enter my room my brain fog worsens and lots of tension is brought up.

I believe this happens because I'm repressing the sadness of my mother's death (my room was where we generally were together) and also because I'm dissociating from my relationship with my grandparents - which caused me lots of pain, especially when my mom died.

I'm beginning to "hear" myself and when I know tension is building I just let go and cry, shout, etc...


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Vortimi said:


> You were without support system too? How did you manage to leave then?


I just picked up and left I was in a bad state but I didn't care I was lucky enough to meet some ppl over here aswell


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

My mum calls me out of guilt sometimes (I mostly don't answer) and I haven't heard from my dad once


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I moved to a different state! Lol

Yeah u need to get out ... I got away from my dad as soon as I could I always fought with him. This was all before the onset of DP. What scares u the most moving away? Can u earn any sort of money? When I moved states I was in a total mess...my self esteem was non existent I was in so much emotional pain but things just worked out I think god was looking out for me.

Just take the risk and let the universe look after u.


----------



## Guest (Aug 1, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Aug 1, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Aug 1, 2013)

.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Just be picky with who u rent with... Find someone who is quiet or whatever you would prefer to live with, put an add up somewhere "looking for room mate"

Think about moving to another country


----------



## Speedy88 (Jul 23, 2013)

I had the best parents ever on my opinion. Never had any trouble with them nor did I cause any. Never was abused neglected or anything. My DP came about through anxiety from to much stress at wrk an MMA training without a lot of sleep for months. It eventually added up. This is my second time going thru this.


----------



## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

Speedy88 said:


> I had the best parents ever on my opinion. Never had any trouble with them nor did I cause any. Never was abused neglected or anything. My DP came about through anxiety from to much stress at wrk an MMA training without a lot of sleep for months. It eventually added up. This is my second time going thru this.


Do you honestly believe that it's just anxiety and stress that could cause this "curse" that somehow you go through many times on and off while the rest of people live happily ever after ?

its weird that people believe dissociation can be acquired through just stress and anxiety

its like saying cancer is attainable by playing video games


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

mmrrlla said:


> Do you honestly believe that it's just anxiety and stress that could cause this "curse" that somehow you go through many times on and off while the rest of people live happily ever after ?
> its weird that people believe dissociation can be acquired through just stress and anxiety
> 
> its like saying cancer is attainable by playing video games


I believe that it can it's in built into every single human persons brain...


----------



## Speedy88 (Jul 23, 2013)

Ppl try saying tht anxiety is inherited. I don't believe it's necessarily inherited. On my mothers side if the family it went from my great grandma to my grandma to my mom to me. I believe as a kid growing up if u watched someone in ur family think negatively or worry alot then u grow up thinking negative an worry a lot also. It's a learned habit. U learn to focus on negative more than positive. Everyone experiences stress an anxiety but if they was brought up in a positive attitude environment they would b more strong minded an handle situations better than others. If u read sum of my posts u will c how I entered into my very first cycle. It was drug induced or anything just lack of sleep an to much physical stress over months time. This led to a panic attack in which I worried an obsessed over an eventually developed DP, intrusive thoughts, depression. Before this period I never experienced anything but small panic attacks from being shy an havin sum social anxiety. So yes stress caused my anxiety anxiety caused my panic..panic caused stress an anxiety...anxiety caused DP..DP caused depression which added to anxiety which caused intrusive thoughts adding to depression increasing DP. It's all a chain reaction. It all feed off each other. Eliminate stressors an u won't have to deal with anxiety. Plus it's also a misunderstanding of anxiety. If sumone would have explained to me wat panic attack an anxiety was before I entered in a cycle 2 yrs ago I would have had a panic attack an moved on. Never obsessing about it.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Aug 2, 2013)

.


----------



## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

Fearless said:


> Looking back,* it was one of the biggest key moments for me when I realized that the constant problem-checking, problem-finding, threat-searching was actually a pattern of thought (a simple habit of negative thinking based on a belief that "something HAS to be wrong, it can't be true that I can calm down and just be happy" ) *and not a logical process. It was very very hard for me to get there.


!!!!

I think that's the main reason why I developed dp in the first place. That thought pattern made my generalized anxiety go OFF THE ROOF, which resulted in dp.


----------



## Lynxabc (Nov 28, 2012)

Well My DP/DR and Anxiety was caused by my alcoholic dad.... One day he had a seizure and I walked into his room at the exact time and it completely effd me up thinking he was going to die...luckily my neighbours dad was a doc so we got him to the hospital on time...i broke down that night and some days after that i developed anxiety where dp.dr followed...


----------



## Speedy88 (Jul 23, 2013)

If ur DP stemmed from anxiety it's because u went to a mode of worry checking in an out obsessing all day about what u were feeling. Twice this happened to me. After a panic attack u need to move on an understand it was anxiety ur body's natural defense. Leave it at tht an move one.


----------



## NEEDMOREBLAZE (Apr 8, 2013)

Fearless said:


> Very good post.
> 
> ps.: Looking back, it was one of the biggest key moments for me when I realized that the constant problem-checking, problem-finding, threat-searching was actually a pattern of thought (a simple habit of negative thinking based on a belief that "something HAS to be wrong, it can't be true that I can calm down and just be happy" ) and not a logical process. It was very very hard for me to get there.


My DP was fear and stress induced. Minds that are prone to DP are also prone to very small details and a weakness in letting go of emotional trauma...when fear and stress consume these types of minds 24/7 it leads to mind fatigue and exhaustion. Once DP is sparked from this cycle of fear and stress, the fear and stress continues and we dissect every little feeling and thought that stems from our DP. Most minds would simply be accepting that they feel spaced out or strange and move on.....our minds cling to the feeling and continuously check to see if the symptoms are gone or try and describe to ourselves how we are feeling on any particular day and take whatever possible measures to avoid further troubles.

It is how i felt after being broken into it multiple times, are my security lights working, is my alarm turned on, what was that noise i just heard, now what was THAT noise i heard, who are the guys walking down the street they look suspicious. PTSD blended with

Hypervigilance and OCD.

This same train of thought began to leak into my work as well as my relationships.....after 2 years everything felt like a challenge and very exhausting until one night i just spaced out into DP out of nowhere. The same fear-based system immediately viewed this new DP as a threat, i've gotta get through this, what vitamins am i not getting, am i not getting enough sunlight, i'm being punished, i'm DP'ed because of depression, I'm DP'ed because my house reminds me of my break ins, i had a panic attack yesterday so i'll probably have one again today.....these were all thoughts that went through my head during the initial stages of DP. Once i learned to eliminate FEAR and STRESS from the equation, life began to feel "NORMAL" again, the fact that i can look back now and find the real roots and causes of my DP has been a huge step in the healing process for me. I understand why i felt this way as a teenager and i understand why it re-surfaced at a later age.


----------



## thminn (Jul 30, 2012)

this is so fucking huge. I always knew this on an intellectual level but in the last days I started to realize this emotionally. And all the memories of my childhood start to hurt. Question to fearless: I would probably need 20 lifes in order to work through the situations that have caused me pain. Since I cant do this whats the goal in working through my traums? When do I know I did enough since I dont know how it feels to be a "healthy" me?


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless said:


> " I would probably need 20 lifes in order to work through the situations that have caused me pain. "
> 
> No, no, no, no and NO! It's not true, at all, trust me. "Processing" important emotional wounds is literally only about MINUTES. It's only a matter of decision. Not the time, but the intensity is what matters. Every day is a new chance, and I actually mean that, not saying to inspire you.
> 
> What I call a "healthy me" is an emotionally free state, the one you experienced as a child. A state where what you do, how you talk, act, decide is only effected by what you really want to do, and not by instinctive fears from the past. But that's beyond recovering from DP.


How does it only take "minutes" to process old emotional wounds? Ok I sort of understand but how do u access them and actually process them?? Do u mean speaking about them and writing? I've done all of that and yes have felt tears come up but only tears no other emotion..

Canu please explain this a bit more


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

The on,y thing that has helped me to process my old emotional wounds is iboga


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

That's all very well but what about old emotional wounds


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I have attempted this many of times but there is a wall there which i don't know how to break through I don't force anything it's just chronically "there" I can express emotions in the present but if I think about something old that makes me angry I don't get the emotion to it. There are old memories with no emotion attached to them.

I don't even get a panic response anymore it has been years since I panicked


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Iboga is a shamanic plant medicine that unlocks old emotional wounds for processing it's not just a "drug"

After my session with it I felt my body has changed shape, my muscles are much looser it goes thru all cellular memory and processes traumas...


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless said:


> You know how to break through, you just don't want to break through because you fear of what you might see.


I honestly don't ....I have done this work with a therapist I'm not ashamed to cry or feel in front of him it just hasn't happened


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless said:


> And yet, you're here, asking me how to process traumas. I remember your ambivalent thread after your session, I already told you that no drug will do this for you.


Yeah that just means I still have more to do but let me tell you it cut through 80% of my dissoiative symptoms


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless said:


> I believe you are honest with me, but you may not be honest with yourself. Childhood trauma is very serious, and needs serious work to admit yourself that you've been hurt.


Yeah I know I've been hurt !! Im not denying that emotion is not there im100% aware of this


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I feel incredibly hurt but I don't rlly know how to heal this hurt


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

I plan to but I was just curious aswell

I believe I had more access to my feelings when I was experiencing panic but now I find it harder


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> I have attempted this many of times but there is a wall there which i don't know how to break through I don't force anything it's just chronically "there" I can express emotions in the present but *if I think about something old* that makes me angry I don't get the emotion to it.


You know, Jess, actually all my iboga experiences led me to conclude that "processing the past" isn't the way to go.

Now this could be me specifically, or my personality type, so it may not apply to you, but what it definitively told me when I asked "how do I stop having fears, insecurities, etc. (basically all undesirable mental and emotional states)?" in other words end products of trauma, it told me flat-out "*you can control all of it*."

So you don't have to relive the past (which does not exist) - all you need to do is re-train yourself to be "present."

The entirety of the training is "oh, I'm having some negative thought or mood or feeling - back to being present - back to doing what I'm supposed to be doing right now."

In other words, it wants you to find that center in you which is above all the mental noise and emotional turmoil - to rise above it - and let *it* be in charge. Do not allow whatever negativity and bad emotions come up to control you.


----------



## Guest (Aug 3, 2013)

When I hit a wall some time ago, I found that when I kept pushing at it nothing changed. I found that doing so was just compacting it into a tighter ball. Now I think that you need space, context and acceptance to get these things moving.

1) Space. This can be done as an exercise, and is simply allowing yourself to feel the real space around and outside of you, knowing that it goes on beyond your awareness. You have to both let it in and you let it go. In itself this counters dp because it brings a sense of connection to the outside, but it also allows processing by providing room and context for our feelings to move.

2) Context. Without context, a feeling is just a feeling and you can become lost in it, but context defines the meaning. The context is the outside real world and events that may have occurred. It may not be an incident itself that traumatises us, but real or imagined consequences of that event -such as condemnation or judgement of others.

In other words, you have to link individual events to the wider narrative of our lives. It's the big picture.

3) Acceptance. You then have to accept however you feel about it. I don't agree that you should face things without fear. Or at least not put in that way. You accept things with all the fear, and that allows it to move through you. It can be like an emotional tidal wave. It may at times seem overwhelming, but it's also very cathartic once a wave has passed. I don't think it does any good denying you feel a certain way if you do. Create the space to allow the context, accept it and let it move through you.

So that's a few thoughts on how you actually process things. Understanding why things occurred is all very well, but affecting real change on an emotional level is always the real trick and you have to find the way that works best for you.


----------



## .Emma (May 5, 2011)

YOURE A BAG END


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haumea said:


> You know, Jess, actually all my iboga experiences led me to conclude that "processing the past" isn't the way to go.
> 
> Now this could be me specifically, or my personality type, so it may not apply to you, but what it definitively told me when I asked "how do I stop having fears, insecurities, etc. (basically all undesirable mental and emotional states)?" in other words end products of trauma, it told me flat-out "*you can control all of it*."
> 
> ...


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

It didn't put my response up silly thing

I am focused in the present I don't think about my past at all, I practice Eric tolle teachings being in the present moment.

I was just talking to fearless about the last of my dissociation wall nothing else


----------



## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

> I was just talking to fearless about the last of my dissociation wall nothing else


Yeah, but consider this: at the point where you go "I hate this dissociation!!!!" *you're not being present*.

If you train yourself to return to being present, over and over, it will go away!

That's all there is to it. You're unintentionally keeping it alive by giving it focus. You've done everything but this last part.


----------



## Guest (Aug 3, 2013)

.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haumea said:


> Yeah, but consider this: at the point where you go "I hate this dissociation!!!!" *you're not being present*.
> 
> If you train yourself to return to being present, over and over, it will go away!
> 
> That's all there is to it. You're unintentionally keeping it alive by giving it focus. You've done everything but this last part.


Haha I don't think you quite understand what I mean. I'm fine with being present...I'm talking about connecting emotions and feeling to things in the present..experiences in the present


----------



## Guest (Aug 3, 2013)

Delicate said:


> One thing all of us share in common on this board, is that we (now, or at one point in cases of the recovered) focus too much inside ourselves, and we can tend to forget by just how much we actually do.


That is so true. It's like an impacted psyche -a house collapsed in on itself, and we're inside trying to make sense of the rubble. That's what I meant about the importance of feeling the outside world, to allow the space and orientation needed to put our houses back in order. It gives the perspective we can't find inside the imagined safety of our goldfish bowl (too many metaphors!  , but hopefully you get the gist)


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Why do u think I'm not


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Anyways I am not here to argue I just asked a simple question. I won't ask anymore


----------



## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Haha I don't think you quite understand what I mean. I'm fine with being present...I'm talking about connecting emotions and feeling to things in the present..experiences in the present


You need to focus your energies on the here and now, not the past, it's over and done with and not in the future, you're not there yet. This takes lots of practice because when negative emotions happen for all the myriad reasons we've discussed here, we don't want to be in the present and we want to dissociate from what is in the present. So what everyone is saying is in order to not dissociate, you have to not give those negative thoughts the luxury of your focus. Practice saying "so what!" and "who cares!" and stop berating yourself. View yourself as someone who is here on a journey to learn and not beat yourself up over your own perceived or others perceived shortcomings of you. Society and our families may have failed us in many ways but we can't wallow in that, we have to pick up the pieces and problem solve.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks for the tip wise but this is not even what I was saying at all.

I simply asked a question about emotions. I am pretty present, I don't listen to negative thoughts, I meditate twice per day and take care of myself. I think you guys got confused when I say dissociation I don't mean not being present and stuck in my head I meant the not feeling emotionally connected yet it's totally different.

I'm done with the past, I don't focus on it, I've accepted my parents for who they are and they don't impact me anymore I don't even live near them.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Ok whatever


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Well mayb I'll just go jump off a cliff fuck this shit I'm over it all and tired of fighting and struggling. I don't remember one day where I have actually enjoyed something and had fun its been years.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

missjess said:


> Thanks for the tip wise but this is not even what I was saying at all.
> 
> I simply asked a question about emotions. I am pretty present, I don't listen to negative thoughts, I meditate twice per day and take care of myself. I think you guys got confused when I say dissociation I don't mean not being present and stuck in my head I meant the not feeling emotionally connected yet it's totally different.
> 
> I'm done with the past, I don't focus on it, I've accepted my parents for who they are and they don't impact me anymore I don't even live near them.


If you mean that you feel disconnected emotionally then the single best suggestion I would make is to practice feeling vulnerable. This is usually what blocks us and keeps us from feeling. We are usually taught to do this: "Stop being so silly, big boys/girls don't cry etc", or simply that our emotions are denied or negated by those around us.

It can feel scary and exposed -which is why we avoid doing it- but it's also liberating to finally allow ourselves to feel this way. The internal conflict, the fighting and struggling, all comes from automatically blocking this feeling. Not blocking it leaves it quite "clean" and allows feelings to start moving. Doing this is the single most useful thing I did in uncorking my bottled emotions and learning to feel again.

You say you practice meditation, and it's good to practice it in that way.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Phantasm said:


> If you mean that you feel disconnected emotionally then the single best suggestion I would make is to practice feeling vulnerable. This is usually what blocks us and keeps us from feeling. We are usually taught to do this: "Stop being so silly, big boys/girls don't cry etc", or simply that our emotions are denied or negated by those around us.
> It can feel scary and exposed -which is why we avoid doing it- but it's also liberating to finally allow ourselves to feel this way. The internal conflict, the fighting and struggling, all comes from automatically blocking this feeling. Not blocking it leaves it quite "clean" and allows feelings to start moving. Doing this is the single most useful thing I did in uncorking my bottled emotions and learning to feel again.
> You say you practice meditation, and it's good to practice it in that way.


Thanks that really helps on clarifying my question. I have 2 conflicting dilemmas part of me doesn't want to let ppl know me bcoz I feel so hurt and part of me is ashamed of my situation.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless I just feel like I've given up at this point.

Delicate no I haven't been doing anything I stopped because I wasent having fun at all.
I moved away from my "friends" they are back in Perth I only have my partner now I have no girl friends here apart from his friends


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

missjess said:


> Thanks that really helps on clarifying my question. I have 2 conflicting dilemmas part of me doesn't want to let ppl know me bcoz I feel so hurt and part of me is ashamed of my situation.


Yes, It's because you've been hurt and made to feel ashamed that you don't want to risk feeling that way again. That's just how it was for me.



Delicate said:


> This is also very true!  By making yourself vulnerable you actually open yourself up to fun and give your life a kick in the right direction. Lots of good things come out of being vulnerable and joining a social club, being vulnerable and volunteering, being vulnerable and travelling on your own - you've already experienced this from moving out of home and into another state so you already know how liberating it can be


That's it exactly  To be open to life's possibilities we have to allow ourselves to feel vulnerable. They are two sides of the same coin and you can't have one without the other


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

So why r u guys still on this site if you can be vulnerable? That's what dps all about anyways isn't it not showing ppl ur emotional and vulnerable self ?


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

For me it's because it's been a big part of my life and so I have taken a interest in these things. Typing things out helps to clarify my thoughts on matters, and I still use the site to keep in touch with people I met here.

I don't need to stay away or distract myself.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

So you have gotten yourself out of this state then? Congratulations

Yeah I find this forum to be helpfull in those matters and there's a few Kool ppl on here too


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)

.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2013)




----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Delicate

Is OCD common in DP ? I haven't stumbled across any posts about it. What is it exactly just repetitive behavior and obsessions?


----------



## Wantmylifeback (Aug 1, 2013)

missjess said:


> Delicate
> Is OCD common in DP ? I haven't stumbled across any posts about it. What is it exactly just repetitive behavior and obsessions?





missjess said:


> Delicate
> Is OCD common in DP ? I haven't stumbled across any posts about it. What is it exactly just repetitive behavior and obsessions?


I'm sure it's common, I have terrible OCD. Just the obsession part though. Lol I can literally ask the question in my head "what if I am really adopted?" And start to obsess for months that I might be adopted even though I know I am not. (I've done this before) luckily I moved past that one.


----------



## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Phantasm said:


> If you mean that you feel disconnected emotionally then the single best suggestion I would make is to practice feeling vulnerable. This is usually what blocks us and keeps us from feeling. We are usually taught to do this: "Stop being so silly, big boys/girls don't cry etc", or simply that our emotions are denied or negated by those around us.
> It can feel scary and exposed -which is why we avoid doing it- but it's also liberating to finally allow ourselves to feel this way. The internal conflict, the fighting and struggling, all comes from automatically blocking this feeling. Not blocking it leaves it quite "clean" and allows feelings to start moving. Doing this is the single most useful thing I did in uncorking my bottled emotions and learning to feel again.
> You say you practice meditation, and it's good to practice it in that way.


I agree with this. Find yourself some decent people to open up to and express your feelings. You're afraid to because you've probably been surrounded by judgemental and backstabbing types but you simply have to.


----------



## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

wise said:


> I agree with this. Find yourself dome decent people to open up to and express your feelings. You 're afraid to because you've probably been surrounded by judgemental and backstabbing but types but you simply have to.


Yeah this is true ....


----------

