# Why do people laugh at creationists?



## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

I watched the first video. The "creationist" is an idiot. Im a creationist but everything that guy said I dont agree with. I dont think you can use that video as a definative means to shut down someone like myself.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

I believe the earth could be billions of years old, but I do not believe in evolution or the big bang. I will watch the series and post my responses in here when I have time to.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

This is much better style VinCi - thanks.

However the world was created, evolution is happen right before our eyes.

Fruit flies reproduce so quickly they can adapt to resist poisons and cold in a lab.

SARS was a mutated virus.

Humans have lost their tails but still have a tail bone.

There are fish that live in caves that are identical to their outside cousins except that their eyes are gone??

It?s wild what is going on out there.

Plants have evolved to resist round-up- and that is over just 20 or so years.

I think evolution is undeniable.
It continues to happen and did not start 8 thousand years ago.

God messed up when he created humans or this forum would not exist.
I would accept the argument that God created evolution to finish a half assed job.


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

wow, you are such a tosspot.


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

lol.


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## guitarman (Dec 11, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Exactly denying evolution is really denying your own existence, no wonder many here got DPDR.
> 
> To be honest, there's no reason to put a "God did it" and it does have severe complications with all other theories that are proven, but if you absolutely are psycho like that girl who believe she has the right to kill if God doesn't exist because then we are just "nothing", it's probably better you believe in God.


Well maybe thinking you have the right to kill because we have no one to answer to is going a bit extreme but if there is no higher power to answer to, then those with a predisposition to evil have nothing to fear. Whatever they do in the dark secrets of their heart and what they can hide from society will be justified to them. What is the difference between Mother Theresa and Charles Manson when they die. According to Evolutionists theory? Nothing. 
You may think that all evidence points away from an omnipotent creator known as the loving God but the evidence I see is that the farther our world drifts from him, the more chaotic this world gets. I won't argue the points of our origins as my proof is "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I do beleive that it will take the all mighty God to stop us from destroying our selves.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> As I explained: the more atheistic, the more peaceful, democratic the people become. check the evidence for yourself.


Let's examine the evidence.

VinCi is an atheist. 
Conjurus is a creationist.

To quote myself from another post-



Conjurus said:


> That's about all I have time to answer right now. Maybe I'll post some more later. Much respect to everyone's beliefs and opinions on the matter. I've told you mine.


To quote you from another post-



VinCi said:


> HOLYSHIT...
> Your stupidity is making me almost speechless


If you think your post sounds more peaceful and democratic, you're the delusional one.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

If the big bang and evolution is true, then what I believe makes no difference as to what happens when I die.

However if creationism is true, then what you believe sends you to hell when you die.

I have nothing to lose by believing what I do.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > If the big bang and evolution is true, then what I believe makes no difference as to what happens when I die.
> ...


If I thought Christianity was how you described it I'd want to be an atheist too. Thankfully, my "brand" is nothing like that at all.

I dont believe there's any point in chatting any further. We obviously both believe what we believe and are not going to change our minds. I want you to know, that I do respect what you believe, I just dont agree with you.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

I


> dont believe there's any point in chatting any further. We obviously both believe what we believe and are not going to change our minds. I want you to know, that I do respect what you believe, I just dont agree with you.


Ya, just drop out of this.
There are people who need help and support.


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## drawynitsed (Dec 14, 2008)

VinCi said:


> See yet another ridiculous thing.
> You don't follow the bible at all, so why believe in it's God?
> You cherry pick what your evolved brain find reasonable and morally responsible and chop out the real parts of the "real bible" (supposed word of god), so you don't follow any God, don't believe in any God...(this is so paradoxial it's really sad, so many potentially bright minds, forever darkened by the aftermath of the darkages) your mind will never spark and forever remain dead =\
> 
> ...


I don't understand why you feel the need to be insulting to everyone with a different opinion. You call people Idiots, use foul language, and call their believes ridiculous. Can't you attempt to make a point while still maintaining a level of respect for those with a different opinion. As far as I can tell, you wouldn't believe a miracle if it happen right in front of your face because you're completely blinded by an anti-religious mindset. 
Have you even read the bible from front to back? We're taught evolution in school, we don't believe it, but we have to learn it. So, we have to know your side, but you probably haven't even spent more than a passing glance reading through the bible. The bible says Jesus died so that our sins could be forgiven. Meaning that even though we ALL fall short of the glory of God, he still loves us and accepts us as his own. We could ask for forgiveness at the tail end of a horrible life and, if we choose to believe, we still get to go to heaven. BECAUSE GOD IS A MERCIFUL GOD. The way you talk about religion makes me think you don't know anything about it.

Has your atheism done anything to help you? Has it cured your DP, has it brought you back to life? If it has, why are you still here on this forum?


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## drawynitsed (Dec 14, 2008)

My faith in God has saved my life. It gives me the strength to forgive, love and understand. It gives me hope to keep going. And because of it, I survived losing my brother in a car accident. Because of it I love my life despite my 9 years straight of DP. Because of it I love and respect people despite their beliefs and sins. Because of it I love myself despite my faults and failures and because of God I have a beautiful, happy, awe inspiring son. What have you gained from Atheism? Besides an excuse to do whatever you want without believing you'll ever have to stand trial for your actions after you die. 
Where does it say that science has to prove there's no God? I thought science was suppose to equally weight both sides? Scientists are suppose to find the answer - not favor either side - and yet teacher's aren't able to even suggest the possiblity that intellegent design could be the reason we're all here. 
Here are some questions I want to see if you can answer. Cause my answer to all this in intellegent design by a loving God who thoughtfully planned everything down to the smallest detail of the smallest thing.
(1) Where are the trillions of fossils of such true transitional forms?
(2) How did life develop from non-life?
(3) How did the heart, lungs, brain, stomach, veins, blood, kidneys, etc. develop in the first animal by slow, minute steps and the animal survive while these changes were occurring?
(4) What are the odds that the evolutionary process, proceeding by random changes, would produce a system in human reproduction whereby exactly 50% of offspring are male and 50% are female (based on 50% X-chromosomes and 50% Y-chromosomes)?
(5) Can you give us just one coercive proof of evolution, i.e., a proof that absolutely eliminates any other possible explanation for the origin of the universe, the material world, and human life?


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

someone needs to ban this guy already. he has far too many mental issues that extend this forum, we cannot help him. He contributes nothing positive


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

Raped me intellectually? I didnt get into a debate with you, you are, as specified earlier, an idiotic tosspot that has no idea what they are talking about. That is not open for debate or discussion, it is matter of fact.

You contribute nothing positive, it seems all you really want to do is debate, you forget people out there need help, support and encouragement, you just seem to shut people down an awful lot, and I pity you as that comes from your own insecurities (possibly from childhood) - perhaps all the nasty things you say to people and the name calling comes from it actually happening to you? You are just projecting them in the wrong place.

Im glad you like to debate, just leave it in this section, I have noticed though that in the other sections where people need help, you are very negative towards them. So I would advise you to stop for the sake of other people's recovery process.Your negativity is hindering your recovery.

I am on the recovery road and things are getting better and better for me each day, I can't wait until Im 100% so I can really help people.

You asked why you werent getting better? Perhaps dealing with your issues and attitude would be a fabulous start.

Ciao Ciao


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2008)

VinCi said:


> This is the debate section, just because I raped you intellectually doesn't mean I should be banned, that's what happens in discussons where one person got evidence to back up his claim an the other is just a deluded bitch who think she has the right to be god if god doesn't exist.


Vinci you was banned before because of this abuse-maybe that didnt register in your _**brain**_.........

YES,this is a debate section but for goodness sake that doesnt mean we are all lined up against a wall waiting for you to take shots at us -obviously you have misunderstood the word debate.Personaly attacking and insulting people is not the same as debating.Its a shame some of the links you posted are quite interesting and would be well worth a disscussion, that is, with someone capable of such a thing.


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## drawynitsed (Dec 14, 2008)

how about the thousands of creatures they thought died out millions of years ago that they just found again, living, breating, unevoled from the way they supposedly were over 2 million years ago? Here they are, unchanged from the "millions" of years old fossil versions of themselves. How do you explain that? 
If evolution on the level you're speaking of were true, shouldn't they have changed over 2 million years?

Were are the half-fish/half-reptile or half-ape/half-human fossils that should GREATLY GREATLY out number the remains of present day species? We should be digging up millions, actually billions of these fossils all over the world if they had ever existed. (cause remember, dinosaur fossils are billions of years old and they're still around, so we should be practically swimming in these transitional fossils)

Everything in existence proves that we are incapable of even understanding the complexity of design. Because if we stopped to really think about how perfectly designed everything is, we'd actually have to acknowledge the existance of God.

You are stuck in a mind rut. There's nothing anyone can do you help you. And i feel sorry for you, honestly, I do.


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## Robsy (Dec 3, 2007)

HA! Because you know me so well and all my beliefs. Stop assuming, you actually make youself out to look really stupid.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

VinCi said:


> good game!


my line brah

There is a disorder for gettin off to treating people like shit. I mean I really think you've got it so I guess we all just need to be here for you and try to help you through it. Im here man I believe in you.


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

just because you are so educated on the matter (you really are vinci/copeful, i'll definitely give you that) doesn't mean your information gives us any more of a clue of some higher being really being out there or not. it's just more useless facts that could either be supported or against a God. not any one person is more authorized to understand what is really out there. we just don't know. and for people to push their faith or lack of faith is dumb and insulting because they assume that they know more than the people around them do. you pushing your lack of faith on people is just as disgusting to watch as a christian that refuses to shut up about their religion and how it's the only true one. you may be on the opposite sides of the spectrum but it all looks about the same to me: people thinking they somehow have authorization to the highest truths of our universe. bullshit. were probably all confused people wishing we weren't.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

peachyderanged said:


> just because you are so educated on the matter (you really are vinci/copeful, i'll definitely give you that) doesn't mean your information gives us any more of a clue of some higher being really being out there or not. it's just more useless facts that could either be supported or against a God. not any one person is more authorized to understand what is really out there. we just don't know. and for people to push their faith or lack of faith is dumb and insulting because they assume that they know more than the people around them do. you pushing your lack of faith on people is just as disgusting to watch as a christian that refuses to shut up about their religion and how it's the only true one. you may be on the opposite sides of the spectrum but it all looks about the same to me: people thinking they somehow have authorization to the highest truths of our universe. bullshit. were probably all confused people wishing we weren't.


great post.

good points.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2008)

I beleive in evolution and I dont beleive in God quite the same way as others do-I explore things for myself-Im actually a bit of a skeptic too and never blindly beleive anything.Everything I share is from my own experience and my own experience isnt something that cant be proven OR disproven, it doesnt matter if noone else saw my experiences or if anyone beleives them because they are mine and we are all differant-I dont need that validation. I also have no quibble with science-what we call magick and much of religion were in older times that generations science.Magicians so called "powers" like being able to produce copper through an alchemical process, were so respected and beleived to be mystical because in them days people didnt understand science and alchemy, hence people thought they had special powers but some things such the element of intuition cannot be proved by science-so why argue about it when it is so fruitless...Personally I would love to see science and spirituality come together as one-I like works such as Einstein -even he acknowledged the need for things that science can not lay claim to such as love and intuition and he spoke of god whether or not he beleived in God in the usual way which I too beleive is a bit fantastical and conditioned -I agree that some christians really should not just beleive because a book tells them to and that just beleiving blindly is an inability to question and ask out of fear thats been placed on society by christianity and notions such as hell-which I do not beleive means anything other than suffering...but Im not rude about it.....Each to their own...its their journey, not mine and as people I respect them whatever they beleive or whatever they are-I dont need a religion to tell me that its morally right to respect people.And I dont need to become some kind of science clone to prove my point either.I could have saved Vinci much energy and effort beforehand while he was busy telling me to "ask God"-..but I couldnt be bothered to point it out for the zillionenth time when it obviously doesnt register...excuse me while I borrow your phrase Vinci> **logical fallacy alert!**....How logical is it tell someone who is not a christian and who doesnt beleive in God that way to ask God...About as logical as me telling Vinci to pray to god.....

...Obviously somebody just looking for people to argue with out of anger that is all projected onto religious/spiritual people as scapegoats because of an inability to take responsibility for themselves. Its about him , so why take any of it personaly-thats not to say its fair and should not be dealt with because it should be.



peachyderanged said:


> just because you are so educated on the matter (you really are vinci/copeful, i'll definitely give you that) doesn't mean your information gives us any more of a clue of some higher being really being out there or not. it's just more useless facts that could either be supported or against a God. not any one person is more authorized to understand what is really out there. we just don't know. and for people to push their faith or lack of faith is dumb and insulting because they assume that they know more than the people around them do. you pushing your lack of faith on people is just as disgusting to watch as a christian that refuses to shut up about their religion and how it's the only true one. you may be on the opposite sides of the spectrum but it all looks about the same to me: people thinking they somehow have authorization to the highest truths of our universe. bullshit. were probably all confused people wishing we weren't.


Every word true and perfectly balanced.


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

well said chica. i miss you

wooo post 420!


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

One thing I will agree with VinCi about is I think this section of the board should be removed. I really dont understand why we have a spiritual debate or even a spiritual support section. I do believe in God but I believe if there's something mentally or physically wrong with a person, spiritual support isn't going to help. If there's something spiritually wrong with someone then it's not something we could help anyway it'd have to be God- though Im sure some will disagree with those points anyway. With so many different religious backgrounds that we have here however I dont get how we could support each other through spiritual means anyway. Additionally, debates tend to break down into bickering no matter how structured they begin. It's difficult for anyone to listen or read about something that just goes against everything they are- to not get emotionally involved and aid the breakdown of a debate is just tough.

With all the real problems going on with everyone of this community, I dont think the added stress that a section of the forum like this can bring should really be included. It just seems it could only do more harm than good which is really all it has done. Who is seriously going to change their world view based on talk in here anyway? Probably nobody. I know what I believe, but I do have a healthy respect for other's beliefs too- I love reading about hinduism and paganism and studying the different religions, but I've researched my own and have settled down with my core doctrines.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> One thing I will agree with VinCi about is I think this section of the board should be removed. I really dont understand why we have a spiritual debate or even a spiritual support section. I do believe in God but I believe if there's something mentally or physically wrong with a person, spiritual support isn't going to help. If there's something spiritually wrong with someone then it's not something we could help anyway it'd have to be God- though Im sure some will disagree with those points anyway. With so many different religious backgrounds that we have here however I dont get how we could support each other through spiritual means anyway. Additionally, debates tend to break down into bickering no matter how structured they begin. It's difficult for anyone to listen or read about something that just goes against everything they are- to not get emotionally involved and aid the breakdown of a debate is just tough.
> 
> With all the real problems going on with everyone of this community, I dont think the added stress that a section of the forum like this can bring should really be included. It just seems it could only do more harm than good which is really all it has done. Who is seriously going to change their world view based on talk in here anyway? Probably nobody. I know what I believe, but I do have a healthy respect for other's beliefs too- I love reading about hinduism and paganism and studying the different religions, but I've researched my own and have settled down with my core doctrines.


I disagree.People turn to their beleifs during their suffering and their suffering causes them to question their faith etc.......I beleive thats one reason why we have a spiritual support forum.If people arent religious or arent interested in spiritual matters then they are free to avoid these sections.I disagree that these sections have done more harm than good also-Ive had some very fruitful conversations with people in these sections and Ive learned alot from people too.These sections have been here for many years-it is only when some individuals come along that it becomes an unpleasent experience-should the sections be deleted because of anti religious people-should we supress our veiws because of those people? Lord no!
I mean we have a thats life section-should we remove that also? We have an other mental health section......

It is the diversity and range of information available on this forum that makes it and keeps me coming back time again-the spiritual sections have allways been one main pull for me coming here apart from wanting to try and offer support with recovery.If you remove these sections then there will be individuals who wish to look at their experience/recovery in a spiritual light and discuss that with others and they,ll have nowhere to go.Not all spiritual people turn their problems over to God-because we dont all beleive in God that way, even if we are spiritual.

I,m very grateful that we have these sections on the forum, very grateful.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I will agree with VinCi about is I think this section of the board should be removed. I really dont understand why we have a spiritual debate or even a spiritual support section. I do believe in God but I believe if there's something mentally or physically wrong with a person, spiritual support isn't going to help. If there's something spiritually wrong with someone then it's not something we could help anyway it'd have to be God- though Im sure some will disagree with those points anyway. With so many different religious backgrounds that we have here however I dont get how we could support each other through spiritual means anyway. Additionally, debates tend to break down into bickering no matter how structured they begin. It's difficult for anyone to listen or read about something that just goes against everything they are- to not get emotionally involved and aid the breakdown of a debate is just tough.
> ...


Hmn if it really is helpful to people then I guess you're right. I still think it'd be hard to help others spiritually just because of the big differences many of us have in our beliefs. I dont know- there's pro's and con's dont you think? It can be used for good or bad- I suppose I cant go to the other extreme and say it is of no help at all.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

If these sections are removed people will still discuss these issues but in the main forum-.I beleive these sections are here because people wanted to discuss these things so the sections were created for that reason :?: You can not stop people discussing these things but if they are not discussed in these sections but in other sections-people who dont wish to read spiritual topics will have no choice but to see them and for alot of people they avoid these subjects because it scares them in relation to their Dp,d.The sections are here for good reasons, deleting them will make the problem worse and solve nothing at all.Again noone can stop people from discussing these things if not here then in other sections.

Theres pros and cons with anything in life I think Jesse. :wink:


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

You have a real good point there.

You know this just occurred to me- does it really matter who's right and who's wrong? Isn't it more about just finding what's best for you personally and applying it to your own life to aid you with what life throws at you? Isnt that what spirituality is supposed to be for anyway? I've said before that the biggest problem with religion isnt really religion, it's the people that try to force it on others rather than just using it for their own benefit.

At the flip of the coin though- this is a debate section


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> You know this just occurred to me- does it really matter who's right and who's wrong?


No it doesnt matter and wrong and right are not absolute realities.What can be right for one person in one situation will be wrong for another and their situation..We are all differant.



> Isn't it more about just finding what's best for you personally and applying it to your own life to aid you with what life throws at you? Isnt that what spirituality is supposed to be for anyway? I've said before that the biggest problem with religion isnt really religion, it's the people that try to force it on others rather than just using it for their own benefit.


Yes.  I agree, do what works for you- because thats your journey , noone elses.Whatever enpowers a person in a positive way and brings them closer to themselves and their truth within could be desribed as spiritual or not..Spirituality doesnt have to have anything to do with a God or a divine being-To me the word spirit referes to what inspires you as a person and what brings you closer to your own inner truth-inspiration-the "spir" in inspiriation is the spirit-when we are drawn to a cirtain path or way that is our inner self guiding us along our personal path whatever it may be....It is a personal journey but at the same time it isnt because that journey is intertwined with others journeys whom we meet in our daily life. We can use that personal journey to inspire and guide others on their journey-but we cant interfere with the will of another human being.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Would it help if from now on I called you god, since you seem to think you are VinCi? I bet you derive a lot of pleasure out of attacking and raping the mentally ill don't you? What a noble man you are.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

Vinci, if you don't like it here, leave. And don't hang out here saying "people are stupid". If you have a debate, fine.

As noted, these topics come up. The support forum is for individuals who have Faith in various religions or have personal Faith and feel the DP/DR has stolen it from them. I was raised by an atheist and she was vicious and abusive to all around her. She indeed think she was God's gift to society. And she was a psychiatrist.

You mentioned somewhere else that atheists are more intelligent than other people. Where in the world did you get that "scientifically proven" informationI?' I'd like a source cited please. (I forgot where I read that.) You're the "scientist."

As noted, I am 50 years old. I wish I had been brought up with a degree of religious structure in my home. My preference would have been Judaism which focus' more on life HERE on Earth. I have attended Synagogue (a number -- even worked at one as an office manager in the day care there.

You are entitled to your disbelief. BUt others are entitled to their faith. It is abundantly clear that you at minimum have not studied (what I have at the university level -- for many years -- I love taking courses) things like sociology, anthropology, psychology, neurology, mythology, or even read the Bible as History which I have. We focused on the old Testament and compared it to literature of the time -- Roman, Greek, individuals such as Tacitus, etc.

Also, if you want some intelligent reading on Antheism and the MYRIAD of forms it takes read "Atheism: A Reader" by S.T. Joshi. As an atheist I would think you have already read that. It is a critical book of a huge selection of atheists starting back with Luctretius 60 B.C.E. There has been atheism before Christianity. You seem to attack Christianity in particular.

I can tell you have not read scholarly books on the subject, but resort to citing idiots like Bill Maher on the internet! As far as I'm concerned that is equivalent to citing Rush Limbaugh or a televangelist. A far more interesting person is Pastor Melissa Scott, who is fully versed in about 8 languages. A biblical scholar, yes a Christian. But do you know ancient Greek, Hebrew, for instance. Do you study other scholars of the time the Bible was written. I hope you haven't forgotten that the Old Testament was written long before the New Testament. Also, Jesus was a Jew.

Your ignorance is showing.

I am still an agnostic, but that does not prohibit me from studying these fascinating topics. Also read Joseph Campbell sp? "The Hero of A Thousand Faces" and "The Mythic Image." Then come back and have an intelligent discussion here.

Cheers,
D
Again, my mother hated everyone around her. She was raised Lutheran. Her brother and sister remained religious (but not "preachy") You are "preaching" atheism more than many of my spiritual friends discuss their faith.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Now, everybody, take a deep breath, count backwards from ten, and stop yelling.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2008)

AMEN.

I hope you didn't think I was yelling. I am frustrated. "Intelligent" people look at all sides of an issue then one comes upon a POV many have struggled (intelligent people with faith vs. atheism their whole lives). I also find the Internet a blessing and a curse. I lived before the Internet and spent more time reading "primary sources" -- that is the original writings of scholars, not watered down garbage that has no substance.

You cannot debate without having knowledge of both sides of an issue. You can come to support an issue that best supports your way of thinking, but scholars do not limit themselves to one POV initially. And many things can cause someone to turn towards or away from Faith. I don't know what happened to my mother, but she was mentally ill. She alienated many people. She was not civil in her debates, she was vicious. And she was a "smart woman" -- she was a doctor and went to medical school in the 1940s. She was way ahead of her time, and brilliant in chemistry, etc.

That didn't mean she had any knowledge re: how to deal with other people, and she felt her patients were garbage.

You will find a good number of psychiatrists and doctors like that. I met them. My father was a surgeon, and not an atheist. I don't know what he believed in, but he feared death. He expressed his fear when he was dying. I was there.


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