# nihilism



## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

I want to check out with fellow dp/drs

Do you think we feel dp/drd because we have nihilist princibles in our minds? The core basic of what we become just seems nihilist. Most dp/drs I talk to seem to lack any real meaning, or can't connect with it. Is it that we just can't connect with it, or that we are just struggling to find the meaning because it seems so vague or not really there in the first place?

much love, reality


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Kind of. I think what most of us have in common is existentalism. We are natural questioners. I know I am, and I've noticed quite a few people here are as well.
I don't categorize myself as a nihilist, per se, but I am very much an existentalist (is that even a word? lol it is now.) I do believe in a higher power, and I do believe in morality, but I also question things constantly. "Why?" "How?" etc. I think we all share that trait.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

If anything, DP/DR has taught me that there is much _more_ going on then we can even comprehend. This is just another level of awareness - try to imagine how many other levels there are.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> If anything, DP/DR has taught me that there is much _more_ going on then we can even comprehend. This is just another level of awareness - try to imagine how many other levels there are.


to me, disocciation isn't even a level, everytime i try to talk about dp/dr, and word it, and explain it, that doesn't even do justice. it can't be labeled. your in space and you don't know what to think of it all. it's bewilderment!

but of course this could all be different for are different minds


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> Kind of. I think what most of us have in common is existentalism. We are natural questioners. I know I am, and I've noticed quite a few people here are as well.
> I don't categorize myself as a nihilist, per se, but I am very much an existentalist (is that even a word? lol it is now.) I do believe in a higher power, and I do believe in morality, but I also question things constantly. "Why?" "How?" etc. I think we all share that trait.


definately.

haha it doesn't matter if it's a word, i know watchya mean 

i question alot to. now that's not a bad thing, but when it becomes 24/7... it gets a little weird and out there, and it's not very fun


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

?real?ity? said:


> invisible.ink said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of. I think what most of us have in common is existentalism. We are natural questioners. I know I am, and I've noticed quite a few people here are as well.
> ...


Yes. Not fun at all. The despair comes from the fact that we'll never know the answers to existential questions yet we continue to question.
One of my most asked question is "do we cease to exist when we die?" but if we do we'll never know,even if we die we won't know because we won't exist to say, "hey, I don't exist."
I'd like to believe we go on to exist though. But I guess not existing wouldn't be so bad because you wouldn't know that you don't exist.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Udunno....In some respects I don't even care what the common link between dissociatives is. That's pretty nihilistic. :roll:


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

Why do you think we have this drive to question everything?
I know, its an ironic question, but seriously, why?

Personally, I am not nihilistic, I am curious, I always have been, I was constantly questioning things before DP.
Is this the one thing we all have in common?



> Udunno....In some respects I don't even care what the common link between dissociatives is. That's pretty nihilistic. :roll:


LOL :lol: I hope that was meant to be funny Rozanne, because it was :lol:

3098


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## jeanie82 (Nov 6, 2006)

In 6 months I've gone from being happy, content, excitable and passionate about a range of things in my life, about life in general, to NOT GIVING A FLYING FCK about anything at all. Does that make me a nihilist? I don't know. All I know is I can't be bothered doing anything, I don't see the point in anything, I don't even see the point in hoping I get better, cause I probably won't. There is no meaning in life at all anymore. It's such a shit place to be. But when you believe you died 6 months ago and went to hell, how do you crawl out? How do you ever care again? I've had too many blows to keep caring.


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## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

jeanie82 said:


> In 6 months I've gone from being happy, content, excitable and passionate about a range of things in my life, about life in general, to NOT GIVING A FLYING FCK about anything at all. Does that make me a nihilist? I don't know. All I know is I can't be bothered doing anything, I don't see the point in anything, I don't even see the point in hoping I get better, cause I probably won't. There is no meaning in life at all anymore. It's such a shit place to be. But when you believe you died 6 months ago and went to hell, how do you crawl out? How do you ever care again? I've had too many blows to keep caring.


I guess it's because there's no point in not trying to crawl out of hell is there?
Might as well give it a go. Even without really caring about it at least it's something to do. :wink:


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

> In 6 months I've gone from being happy, content, excitable and passionate about a range of things in my life, about life in general, to NOT GIVING A FLYING FCK about anything at all. Does that make me a nihilist?


jeanie82,

You asked does that make you a nihilist?
No, it doesnt, because you posted the question, if you were a nihilist, you wouldn't have even logged on, there would have been no point.



> How do you ever care again?


Well you must care a little, you are still looking for answers, that's positive.
I know me saying this will probably shit you, but, it will get better.

3098


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

Interesting conversations here,



invisible.ink said:


> One of my most asked question is "do we cease to exist when we die?" but if we do we'll never know, even if we die we won't know because we won't exist to say, "hey, I don't exist."
> I'd like to believe we go on to exist though. But I guess not existing wouldn't be so bad because you wouldn't know that you don't exist.


First of all, my stance on nihilism, existentialism, and philosophies in general was stated down the page in this thread.

I don't think it's as black-and-white as this. Personally, I think existence/non-existence is a delusion. It's not that you might cease to exist when you die. You never existed to begin with. From my post in the above link, here is the essence of what I think: _If you are perhaps familiar with the Hindu cosmology, it refers to the all-incorporating Universal Mind as Brahman. Certain schools of thought go on to assert that *even Brahman is an illusion*._

This is far from nihilism. It is something outside of that entire conceptual order. It sort of renders all this discussion moot, although it's still fun to talk about it.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

asf


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

turnIntoearth said:


> Interesting conversations here,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This confuses me. Because if we, and everything, is an illusion then we must still exist on some level. Someone must have the illusion that is us. 
If you have a dream, it does not technically exist, but on some level it does because in order for you to have that dream it must exist. It exists as an illusion: *your* illusion.
Therefore, if everything even the Most High (Brahman), is an illusion....someone must be having that illusion. KWIM?


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> turnIntoearth said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting conversations here,
> ...


she/he might be talking about us individuals... but i'm quite sure. i'll wait till she/he post to read more


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

First of all, I think we have a parallel discussion going on here, between this thread and the "states of mind" thread. Perhaps we could just carry the whole conversation on in this one. Anyway,



invisible.ink said:


> This confuses me. Because if we, and everything, is an illusion then we must still exist on some level. Someone must have the illusion that is us.
> If you have a dream, it does not technically exist, but on some level it does because in order for you to have that dream it must exist. It exists as an illusion: *your* illusion.
> Therefore, if everything even the Most High (Brahman), is an illusion....someone must be having that illusion. KWIM?


Yes, I know what you mean. I think part of the confusion here is semantic. When I talk about illusions, of course that implies that there is someone who is having the illusion... there must be perceiver, or at least some consciousness, who is under the illusion.
I would submit the notion that there are no individuals... there is no perceiver. The very concepts of things like these are inventions of our own minds. What lies "beyond" is not conceptual in nature, which means that we can't really talk about it or even think about it, because we think in concepts... which naturally makes it just heck to try and discuss. All a person can really do is acknowledge it.


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

turnIntoearth said:


> Yes, I know what you mean. I think part of the confusion here is semantic. When I talk about illusions, of course that implies that there is someone who is having the illusion... there must be perceiver, or at least some consciousness, who is under the illusion.
> I would submit the notion that there are no individuals... there is no perceiver. The very concepts of things like these are inventions of our own minds. What lies "beyond" is not conceptual in nature, which means that we can't really talk about it or even think about it, because we think in concepts... which naturally makes it just heck to try and discuss. All a person can really do is acknowledge it.


Let me see if I get this: we are just "consciousness" and the reality we live in is just a projection of this consciousness? :shock: I'm so confused. lol


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## Ni Hi Li St. (Jul 1, 2006)

Descartes once asked himself a similar question, but then affirmed, "I think, therefore I am." Does that help? :lol: I remember studying this in class, but I forgot how he got to that conclusion.

Anyway, I would like to say that I don't like to see myself as a nihilist despite what my username may suggest. It's just that nihilistic premises haunt the back of my mind that I cannot shake off. However, I don't think this had much to do with my DP/DR since I've had it for years before formulating my nihilist premises. In my case, the culprit behind nihilism is understanding material sciences too well.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

I think the nihilistic feelings stem from a low-level depression we probably developed fighting our dp/dr for so long. I disagree with it being a "new" level of consciousness implying that it is something normal and that we should embrace it. It isn't normal. It's a pain in the ass.

I find the concept that reality is only an illusion hysterical. I'll never understand that theory. But once you bring in "higher powers" into the equation then anything goes I guess. Funny how people who believe in these "higher powers" never have any proof of it. Nor do they look for proof. Wishful thinking in my books.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

Oh I can't resist. If I'm getting this right, then we are just separate consciousnesses flowing from the "higher power" or braham and we create our material world as illusions. If so, then how can the "illusion" of a bullet or speeding train have such a dramatic effect (if we are hit by them) on our consciousness to the point where we cease to exist in relation to all the other illusions that all the other consciousnesses are creating? Get me? Hey, maybe I'm creating all you people on this board as part of my illusion. If I suddenly die then you shouldn't exist anymore hahahaha. Oh please!


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> Let me see if I get this: we are just "consciousness" and the reality we live in is just a projection of this consciousness?


100% corrrect. That is precisely what I'm saying, and about all I have to say on this one :wink:

_
~T_


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

I don't wish to play devil's advocate - and I am not judging the value of the belief system either - but Eastern philosophy is surely nihilistic. Isn't it the definition of nihilism to say that nothing has inherent existance?

Whether you choose to live by that system or not is another question. But the fact is that Buddhism advocates that the person renounces all interest in the outside world and develop instead a state of being where he/she has no libido for the outside world....to the point of not eating, not gathering anything material for oneself apart from what is given by benefactors, renouncing sexuality identity...renouncing everything...lulling oneself into a state of non-existance.

What can be more nihilistic than that?


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

Edit: Miss read your post.


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

Miss_Starling said:


> I don't wish to play devil's advocate - and I am not judging the value of the belief system either - but Eastern philosophy is surely nihilistic. Isn't it the definition of nihilism to say that nothing has inherent existance?
> 
> Whether you choose to live by that system or not is another question. But the fact is that Buddhism advocates that the person renounces all interest in the outside world and develop instead a state of being where he/she has no libido for the outside world....to the point of not eating, not gathering anything material for oneself apart from what is given by benefactors, renouncing sexuality identity...renouncing everything...lulling oneself into a state of non-existance.
> 
> What can be more nihilistic than that?


OK, I'll respond to this one, then I'm out, cause I think we left DP/DR issues way behind. We should move all this to Philosophy/God/Etc... there are some great ideas here 

Yes, you're right. Traditional Buddhism says that you should (as I've heard it put by Alan Watts) forget the physical world, dive into your own belly button and simply cease to exist. Not in the sense of suicide and physical death, but in the sense of final spiritual liberation. Still sounds kind of nihilistic, though.

I think the true balance, whether or not it is dogmatic within any belief system, is to be aware of that whole process of physical renunciation to the revelation of the spirit, yet still be able to live in and experience the physical world.

In other words: I don't have to sell all my belongings, don a sackcloth and travel to Tibet and meditate on a mountaintop. Perhaps that could be a path for some people, but maybe I can have a job and a family and possessions, yet stay conscious of _*that place*_.

In India, this idea shows up in society as either leading a monastic life, swearing off things of the flesh and just following god... or as a householder, being a part of the human world. There is not a distinction in terms of supremacy. Both are valid paths for people to take and they are not mutually exclusive. Elements of one mix with that of the other. They both have the potential to lead to the same place.

I'll say it again, great discussion here. It makes me feel good, talking about this stuff. 
Peace, all.

_~T_


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

turnIntoearth said:


> They both have the potential to lead to the same place.


Then, if you agree it is nihilistic, you'll agree that it is nihilistic wherever you practise it.

Nihilism is "going towards nothing", which I think means the same as "meditating on nothingness".

I don't think everything is nihilistic about Eastern Philosophy but that particular thing is.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

edit.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

You can never reject all materialism. You still get hungry and have to look for food. And if everybody chose "the way of the sack cloth" and meditated all day then no handouts would come your way at all.

I think the term "nothingness" can never be achieved during meditation because your consciousness is aware that, if nothing else, it at least occupies space and time....unless you fall into a deep dreamless sleep zzzzzzzzzzzzz.


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## rushdy (Sep 24, 2011)

I also believe that we reached such a state of mind due to us being real with our arguments. Meaning, we once had views and perspectives that contradicted with our actions. I myself was against religion before DP/DR for reasons that are beyond investigation. I judged religious people and sterotyped them in a way that their actions resembled their religious background. Honestly, i knew nothing of religion to criticize and i generalized them 9 known religions into one big circle where the rules apply to all! It is like taking science as one where in fact it has so many branches that might even contradict one another.


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