# Embarassment, guilt and shame



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Gosh, I have a problem with peoples' narrow-mindedness sometimes.

I sense the embarassment in my neighbours over the fact that I spend quite a lot of time recording stuff in my dining room. Admittedly, I can spend hours at a time composing pretty abstract thing, ranging to comedic stuff...but is it really anyone's business if I enjoy my life this way?

??

I though that these emotions would be very hard to define, but looking on the net, it makes a lot of sense. In wikipedia it says this:



> Shame vs. guilt
> There is no standard distinction between shame and guilt. The cultural anthropologist Ruth Benedict describes shame as a violation of cultural or social values while feelings of guilt arise from violations of internal values. It is possible to feel ashamed of thought or behavior that no one knows about as well as feeling guilty about actions that gain the approval of others. However, in Facing Shame, therapists Fossum and Mason state "While guilt is a painful feeling of regret and responsibility for one's actions, shame is a painful feeling about oneself as a person." Shame is needed to establish limits, in childhood, since young children are unable to associate cause and effect by themselves. However, as children become better able to judge their own actions, guilt becomes the conscience former. Although, in general, guilt guides adult consciences, intrinsic shame is often present in adults too, as shaming is a form of religious, political, and/or legal control in cultures worldwide.
> 
> Shame vs. embarrassment
> Shame differs from embarrassment in that it does not necessarily involve public humiliation: one can feel shame for an act known only to oneself, but in order to be embarrassed, one's actions must be revealed to others. Also, shame carries the connotation of a response to qualities that are considered morally wrong, whereas one can be embarrassed regarding actions that are morally neutral but socially unacceptable (such as an accident). Another view of the difference between shame and embarrassment is that the two emotions lie on a continuum and only differ in intensity. The wish to sink into the ground and disappear from view, to hide oneself from eyes that witness one's embarrassment or humiliation is common to both.


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

People might feel discomfort because they do not wish to be judged by others as them their selves might feel insecure about ?letting go?? because you?re quite comfortable ?being yourself?? although they might also enjoy and respect how obvious you seem to others around you, and they might even feel as if you and them are the only two their even if you?re in a busy city? I will PM you something now?


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

You've edited your post again... the only time I tend to edit my post is when i have made a spelling mistake... I'm interested why you feel the need to "change"... ?


----------



## closetome (Nov 16, 2006)

Those thre emotions have played a BIG factor in my life but it's all god. Lonliness is my thing.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Dear Closetome,
Thanks for the PM by the way, I think skipping is an excellent idea - definately one that will help me get fit. I'm just about to start a health and fitness plan. Have even recruited my little sister to join me in a change of diet. She's only 14 and is starting to put on weight a bit.

In some ways I think you are right Darren...I realised I needed to start being myself in spite of whether it is normal or not. Writing poems and singing songs has really helped me to start expressing myself. We all have hidden talents and things that need to come out of the closet.

I also used to feel alone. I feel less alone since I started to accept myself in spite of the fact I am slightly different. But I still cannot deny that it is painful for me to have people make eyes at each other when I get over-enthusiastic about how much I like a particular tune, or pair of shoes. Anyway, it's an on-going process, self-acceptance, when you have had a past like mine.

The thing is that I want to respect the culture I live in, and that means conforming to common values. Unfortunately, it is probably considered unhealthy and strange that I spend so much time on my own even though I actually find it very enjoyable to do so.

I found these paragraphs from wikipedia very interesting as well -- it draws a link between shame and dissociation, something I feel may be relevent to me.



> Toxic shame
> Psychologists often use the term 'toxic' shame to describe false, and therefore, pathological shame. Therapist John Bradshaw states that toxic shame is induced, inside children, by all forms of child abuse. Incest and other forms of child sexual abuse can cause particularly severe toxic shame. Toxic shame often induces what is known as complex trauma in children who cannot cope with toxic shaming as it occurs and who dissociate the shame until it is possible to cope with.
> 
> Shamery (and shaming) is often associated with torture (see the psychology of torture). It is also a central feature of punishment, shunning, or ostracism. In addition, shame is often seen in victims of child neglect, child abuse and a host of other crimes against children. Parental incest is considered the ultimate form of shaming by child psychologists.


Hope you are well, the both of you.

(I keep needing to add things, that is just one of the reasons I edit my posts frequently. It's a bit OCD-ish as well.)

Basically, I think coming to a head with these emotions is going to help me to stop this tendency to dissociate. I know that I have felt lots of guilt, shame and embarassment in the past, as well as a painful loss. Writing about it isn't easy because I know that I am embarking on something which is going to hurt me deeply. But I feel it is also really important to recaim parts of my emotional life that have been cut-off in a process that protected me when i was living under the same roof as my mother, who somehow influenced me to feel alienated and unacceptable in spite of my original sincerity to just love and be loved.

Hope this thread doesn't start off a cascade of unpleasantness. I don't mean to throw a spanner in the works, but the negative emotions that result from abuse, neglect and social exclusion are unfortunately a fact of life for some of us. A fact that is probably best faced up to at one point or another.


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

In the end, what makes you different is that you express which many only feel able to express behide closes doors? behide close doors S & M is ?totally? normal? yet if you where to take your male bitch for a walk in the park? many would frown upon both of you? still this ?is? normal for many many people behide closed doors, so in the end, you?re only different because you feel able to show what others can not due to their own insecurities? If I were you, I?d be proud of myself, you?ve guts Rozanne.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Since when did I ever take my male bitch for a walk in the park? I don't have a lead.

The whole point of the thread was to reduce embarassment, not increase it, goodness me!


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

Since when did you even have a male bitch? I need to word my words much more correctly to avoid upsetting you, as i do not wish to upset you, I was giving you an example... yet now that i re-read it... I see where you're coming from... I'm Sorry.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

This is the funniest arguement I have ever got into....arguing over my hypothetical male bitch.

You've got to admit it is hilarious.


----------



## Guest (Mar 18, 2007)

OMFG....LOL :lol:


> behide close doors S & M is ?totally? normal? yet if you where to take your male bitch for a walk in the park?


 :lol:

Greg


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

See Greg can relate... *nods* :lol:


----------



## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

Rozanne Alexxia said:


> ...the negative emotions that result from abuse, neglect and social exclusion are unfortunately a fact of life for some of us. A fact that is probably best faced up to at one point or another.


Yep. For me, that act of "facing" has been going on for some time now. After years of therapy, I thought I had a handle on it. But you know, situations recently show me just how much there is yet to face. Of course, this is why this site is so damned helpful. You all are the most fantastic mirrors.

My path has taken me to those emotions, long buried, and allowed me to feel them again and process them. A lot of anger, confusion and sadness has dissipated like a fog in the sunshine. Yet all those emotions had created a mold or cast of a self that "I" was imprisoned in. Habits of mind like depersonalization and social anxiety, plus all sorts of messed up idiosyncrasies created a whole new layer of issues to work through. That's where I'm at now... trying to pry out of this thing.

Of course, something tells me, "Hey, this is all just an illusion anyway. It's all in your head, and you're the one hanging onto it... allowing it to remain." I don't know sometimes.


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Darren said:


> People might feel discomfort because they do not wish to be judged by others as them their selves might feel insecure about ?letting go?? because you?re quite comfortable ?being yourself?? although they might also enjoy and respect how obvious you seem to others around you, and they might even feel as if you and them are the only two their even if you?re in a busy city? I will PM you something now?


I think you hit the nail on the head Darren  Most people restrain themselves because its culturally expected you don't "be yourself" in public. When they see someone else expressing themself they feel jealous and feel like they need to squelch that person out.

Its good to hear you are expressing yourself more, hope you have fun with it


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

I wish I could just be normal, really I do. Whether I express myself or not, people know I'm marching to the beat of another drum, it's impossible to hide. I just want to fit in so that I don't have to feel alienated anymore. :roll: There's something terribly ironic about the way independent thinkers are held as being the revolutionaries of society, historically...and that it is ordinary to study about those peoples' thoughts....but it is not acceptable to be an ordinary person who does not not follow the herd. I don't understand it.


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

You say I?m normal?(LOL!) wanna know why that is? It?s because I don?t force ?normality? on to myself? if you force something like a personality? you just highlight how fake it is.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

I dunno, there's just something normal about you. It's not something I can really define, but I could imagine you being well accepted in a social circle because you are so laid back and accepting.

As well as that, your dress sense is very normal...but we've talked about that and I can accept it.

No white trainers over the age of 30 that's my only rule.


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

I?m different with others, I?m not so accepting to those who coursed me harm? only due to DR/DP I have forgive them? yet when I?m released = ?pay back time?.

Funny you should say that, I?ve already been talking to my Sister and Bother about my dress sense? it?s going to change, ever since I?ve seen you wearing those boots?and other clothes? I?ve wanted to smarted myself up for ?me?? because it will really effect how I behave, I will feel more mature, and so I will act it.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

I'd like to be more classy/retro.

Saw a woman today in killer heels and a trench coat, it looked really cool.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Was like this.

I think the way people dress can, to an extent, say sometimes say about the way they feel themselves to be.

Of course, it depends on what suits them etc etc etc. But if someone wears something that positively hides their form it does make you wonder.

BTW what look were you thinking of going for....?


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

JUST WHAT DA DOC ORDERED!!! *WOLF-WHISTLES*? *BANGS ON THE DESK*? HOLY SHITE? I?LL HAVE CREAM WITH THAT PLEASE? AND DON?T FORGET THE CHERRY ON TOP!? whow?.


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

Whow, I just discovered something about myself which i like... "Winner"


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

*Rubs back of head*...  kinda looks like she's about to flash herself... bless. :mrgreen:


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

I'm embarassed...


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

Sorry, you kinda got me "excited"... i've not been excited like that since... well... humm...

Any how, I find it hard to control myself while "excited"... 

I'm really sorry I embarassed you... I didn't want that.


----------



## Guest (Mar 19, 2007)

But yeah, I "really" like that coat... it just "does" it for me.


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Is that Jennifer Connelly? Hawt!

Anyway, normal? Bah, I want to be done with being normal and just be myself.


----------



## Guest (Mar 20, 2007)

CECIL said:


> Is that Jennifer Connelly? Hawt!


*passes you a tissues while wiping his own drool off*, you know pal... you know =P

*Wiseman say:* I want to be done with being normal and just be myself.

*nods* Winner =)


----------

