# Could there be a relationship between symptoms and circadian rhythm?



## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

The time I had my panic attack which lead to dp/dr symptoms was when I had a disrupted sleep pattern (4am-1pm) due to study stress. I remember what caused the breakthrough to anxiety was this feeling that I might never be able to sleep and that feeling of body numbness you get when you experience insomnia. That day on I think I have only been able to sleep from 6am to 3pm, it's only now that I have been getting so much better that I am beginning to make adjustments to my sleep pattern without affecting my symptoms. Due to a heavy night of drinking last night I fell asleep around 1am (not the best reason obviously) and woke up 8am, spending the day outside in the sun. My dp/dr symptoms were very minimized, I only experienced mild anxiety expecting the symptoms and being hungover however they never really came.

Not entirely related to dp/dr but I remember one study I read about depression and the circadian rhythm, I contacted the head researcher and unfortunately she hasn't been able to find any treatment yet but here's some of the findings:

http://www.livescience.com/31961-brain-clock-disrupted-depression.html



> To test the idea, the researchers compared gene expression in depressed patients who died at different times, and found some similarities. That suggests that the depressed people's body clocks may have been shifted by several hours, the researchers said.


The researcher actually studied the brains of people who have committed suicide, and found that almost all of them had this irregular gene expression due to a wrong 'clock setting'. Not sure if they can prove whether this leads to mental illness, or mental illness leads to this irregular circadian rhythm, but I do think that treating it may help with all symptoms of mental health. One way is light therapy, however I have read that going on a camping trip for 3+ days, disconnecting from technology and living with the sun can speed up this process.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm not up to date on the implications of the circadian rhythm on DPD or mental illness, but I am interested in this as well for a couple reasons.

I recall Dr. Janiger once saying the following:



> "As more sufferers of the condition converge on the internet, more common symptoms are also emerging with greater clarity. For instance, D-People seem to be particularly susceptible to the condition when they spend time in fluorescent lighting, like that found in most retail stores. In addition, for most persons, DP seems be strongest in the mornings and progressively better as the day progresses. If they take naps, it can re-emerge with a vengeance.
> 
> This tells us something about it's relationship to sleep, Janiger says. DP has something to do with regulating sleep and wake patterns, but I haven't seen any studies on this yet. It's odd how so many people refer to it as being in a dream or a dreamlike state, but nobody seems to have looked at how it relates to REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep. If you visualize the brain's two distinct types of consciousness REM sleep and wakefulness as being in their own separate airtight compartments, depersonalization might represent some kind of intrusion from one into the other, Janiger suggests. The respective compartments may not be as contained as they should be."


I don't know how likely this is, but this excerpt has always stayed with me as someone who has dealt with Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder for years. Interestingly, the periods of recovery from DPD I've experienced always happened when I was sleeping ~6 hrs. and waking very early. Sleeping much more or less exacerbates my symptoms to the point where remission from symptoms is impossible.

When I was a young child, I dealt with episodes of somnambulism where I often accidentally injured myself. I also had a form of childhood epilepsy which is typically transient and dissipates into teen years. The seizures only happened in my sleep. Then came years of sleep paralysis!

I would like to see more research done into any possible link between sleep and DPD. I feel as though it's likely that people with mental illnesses tend to be more sensitive to sleeping patterns, or as mentioned before that sleep disorders may actively contribute to mental illnesses. Either way, more research certainly can't hurt.


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thank you for your response Selig. That quote resonates with me because I too have wondered if there is a kind of dysregulated transition from REM sleep to wakefulness which might at least intensify symptoms of DP/DR. My reasoning here comes from my own experience where the most severe form of DP/DR and disassociation I experience has been that moment between being fully conscious to nearly asleep, or the hypnagogic state as some call it, and waking up before I become fully lucid. It's only this time that I would have trouble recognizing my surroundings, my 'sense of self' and even recognizing the partner laying in the bed next to me. This has probably been the most difficult part of the process to endure. On a side-note, I find that I've been in lucid deep REM sleep I do not experience any symptoms of dissociation, DP/DR, anxiety or depression.

I'm sure this isn't any kind of ultimate missing puzzle, as many people have insomnia and DSPD yet never experienced DP/DR. I still believe the most overwhelming mechanism is anxiety, however I think addressing all these factors can help with remission or alleviation of symptoms.

On another side-note, if you are still experiencing any kind of epilepsy or seizures I have read that a strict ketogenic diet (high fat, moderate protein, very low carb) is used as a treatment for sufferers who do not respond pharmaceuticals. I've actually had success with this diet pre-DP for treating depression and anxiety, however I would not recommend it outright as I have also read it can raise cortisol levels and lower serotonin which might make DP worse. Just something to consider!


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## dppara (Dec 17, 2014)

I was just thinking about this myself. Independently... sometimes it feels as if my body-brain went to sleep and the rest of the brain is awake...


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

So last night I stayed up much later than usual, around until 8-9am. I believe this is a rebound effect of the alcohol the previous night which incurred a bit of sleep debt by powering through the day. I could feel the effects of sleep deprivation by 6am, and just an hour or so later was expectedly hit with full on dp/dr including the 'body separate from mind', everything looking unfamiliar, fear and ruminating over existential thoughts (which have not bothered me just a few hours earlier). Considering that I have not experienced any physical symptoms of dp/dr for over 3 weeks this is at least a huge indicator that sleep is heavily related to dp/dr for me. It's also very sad that in this state sleep becomes near impossible, that disconnection between your mind and your body and the anxiety that comes from this makes it nearly impossible to drift off.

A few benzos and hours of sleep later I'm back to reality. I guess there is no quick fix for this sleep cycle setting, I'm actually going to go and look at some camping equipment. I think that will be the only way to reset the way my body responds to light. I can feel the negative effects of being surrounded by artificial light all the time.


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