# DP/DR and Nihilism



## DepecheDean (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi, so my name's Dean, and I'm pretty sure I have DP/DR Disorder. There's a slight problem though: I have not undergone any traumatic experiences(very confident there isn't a repressed memory).

My DR is pleasurable, as I enjoy the sensation; so I do not have any concern for "fixing" it.

The only cause I can think of is my existential angst/anxiety. There's a vicious circle inherent with this cause and disorder; in that when I DP, I get objective(logical and rational) which leads to nihilistic thoughts. I am completely apathetic during this, but when it ends I am assaulted by a barrage of emotions responding to my previously emotionally-detached thoughts.

It's been bad enough to bring me to attempt suicide several times; however, I am not planning on re-attempting any time soon.

The other feeling I have is an unrelenting emptiness, or hollowness. I'm always unsatisfied and bored; regardless of current circumstance.

I had first considered I suffered from BPD(Borderline), but I have no abandonment issues; and I found that DP/DR symptoms fit me much much more accurately. I definitely suffer from MDD(Depression), and I'm cynical about saying I suffer from GAD(the anxiety is only ever existential angst).

The only person I care for is my girlfriend. Everyone else means nothing to me. She is the only person capable of keeping me grounded, and giving me emotions I cannot detach from. However, she doesn't help the existential angst; and thus she doesn't fix my feeling of emptiness, except when I'm riding high on a surge of positive emotions.

It's worth noting that I believe in determinism; not free-will. All of my actions occur with or without my consent. I do not want to exist, but I do; and so I function as a human "should". I run on, what can best be described as, auto-pilot. Only intense emotion can ever bring me out of this, and that kind of emotion only surfaces during a suicide attempt or when my girlfriend is in distress(she has mental health issues of her own).

So, here I am. What do I want from this site? Well, I want opinions; does this sound like I have DP/DR Disorder? Or is there something more? Does anyone else here believe they suffer due to nihilistic thoughts? (I'm an existential and moral nihilist)

Any input is much appreciated 

EDIT: I should mention that DP occurs (on average) 3 times daily.


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## LukeThinksTooMuch (Feb 28, 2015)

Hey Dan. Welcome to the forum,

You're definitely not alone with your existential angst/anxiety etc. I too suffer from the dread, the angst, the anxiety, the nihilism.. it is bad. I feel you and this forum is a place where many people will empathise with you. I too believe in determinism, unwillingly. I see no other possibility despite endless hours of searching for some sort of proof that just slightly disproves determinism. The best I could get was a study on how neurotransmitters are quantum and the famous phrase "cogito ergo sum."

To find DP/DR pleasureable is interesting and in my experience, it's chronic not sporadic. However someone who is nihilistic and suffers from MDD could find DP as a beneficial and nice occurrence as it can take away the pain and anguish. Many people get DPD with no form of trauma so it is possible you have DPD. I can't be sure, many people experience it in different ways. I'm sure other's will provide a more definitive answer. I hope you feel better in the future and that you find answers and some comfort here.


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

Nihilism and determinism are definitely hard pills to swallow, however from what I have gathered people who do not have depression, dp/dr or other mental illnesses do not form any kind of strong attachments to them. They might consider these ideas, accept them and just go back to whatever they were doing, without feeling empty or detaching from anything emotionally.

If it makes you feel better, determinism can not be proven, most people are forced to logically accept 'soft' determinism and many simply don't buy the idea. There's a reason this free will debate has been going on for hundreds of years. Personally the issue is irrelevant to me, since accepting its implications does nothing to change my life or any aspect of existence, simply it's one way of defining how we function (by being influenced by cause and effect, biological impulses etc).

Nihilism is a bad mix with dp/dr since it's a sort of extreme skepticism, people with dp/dr are skeptic about their own understanding of the Cartesian view of reality. I won't get in to this because I've already gotten over this topic where I find it irrelevant. I'll just mention that it's intriguing that some nihilists derive extreme joy and sense of freedom from this philosophical outlook, ask yourself why they can find joy in it and you can't.

There can not be a sense 'emptiness' without 'fullness' so you need to find out what else might be causing these feelings in you, perhaps being open to the idea that you do have some possibly biological reason for feeling this way such as depressive disorder. Depression can mask itself as philosophical enlightenment and perfectly logical reasons as to why life is boring, repetitive, pointless and why you can not derive any joy from any of it. People accept these outlooks without ever considering if they are suffering from depression or an obvious suppression of the spirit (or whatever you want to call it).


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

You say your DP happens 3 times daily..

Can you clarify this please? You feel totally normal for the majority of the day and then you occasionally 'dip' into a hellhole of non-existence where your self-image melts away? How is this possible?


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## DepecheDean (Oct 29, 2015)

Midnight said:


> You say your DP happens 3 times daily..
> 
> Can you clarify this please? You feel totally normal for the majority of the day and then you occasionally 'dip' into a hellhole of non-existence where your self-image melts away? How is this possible?


As I said, I always feel empty; but when I DP, it's a very definite difference to how I normally think. It's as if I completely detach from my emotions, and think "objectively"(even though that can't be truly possible; given that I am a subjective conciousness). This causes no qualm with me by itself, but it's a "hellhole" when my emotions return to me and then react to what I've thought.

I'm always semi-detached, but roughly 3 times a day(more frequent when alone/without distraction) I completely dissociate. It is, of course, not psychotic as I'm always fully self-aware(perhaps too self aware; leading to self analysis and dismissal of any previous emotional goals or attachments).

Thank you to everyone who has replied


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## DepecheDean (Oct 29, 2015)

Alex617 said:


> There's a reason this free will debate has been going on for hundreds of years. Personally the issue is irrelevant to me, since accepting its implications does nothing to change my life or any aspect of existence, simply it's one way of defining how we function (by being influenced by cause and effect, biological impulses etc).
> 
> I'll just mention that it's intriguing that some nihilists derive extreme joy and sense of freedom from this philosophical outlook, ask yourself why they can find joy in it and you can't.
> 
> There can not be a sense 'emptiness' without 'fullness' so you need to find out what else might be causing these feelings in you, perhaps being open to the idea that you do have some possibly biological reason for feeling this way such as depressive disorder.


"There's a reason this free will debate has been going on for hundreds of years." I've always pegged that down to human's glorifying conciousness and refused to consider they may not be as special as they need to believe. It's much akin to religious belief, to which I hold no grudge; except perhaps envy of their emotional comfort.

" ask yourself why they can find joy in it and you can't." I'm definitely a pessimist, and my way of viewing nihilism is that when I hear: 'Without morals or purpose, we are completely free' my first thought is that of "freedom" and how that can even correlate to anything except a belief in "free-will over determinism". My next thought is that if you can indeed do anything you desire, why should you? Happiness is only greater than depression to a subjective conciousness that is functioning in a way that evolution selects for. Objectively, happiness has no value. I lose my motivation to be happy upon DP.

"perhaps being open to the idea that you do have some possibly biological reason for feeling this way such as depressive disorder" I am currently under the impression that my depression, etc. is caused by a subtle mutation in my genetics that has caused my brain to function in a way that is "unfit for survival". This is how evolution works, no? I'm naturally selected against, because my brain genetics have mutated in a way that is a hindrance to my survival odds. It's random, and I don't want to cause any confusion here: I am not putting myself down, or saying that I believe myself to be inferior; it's simply a logical observation.

Thanks for the reply.


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi Dean,



> I've always pegged that down to human's glorifying conciousness and refused to consider they may not be as special as they need to believe. It's much akin to religious belief, to which I hold no grudge; except perhaps envy of their emotional comfort.


The people who are interested in debating and pursuing these topics are in the game to get as close to truth as possible, this means abandoning all attachment to ones beliefs in favor of the most rational solution. If determinism was absolute truth than it would become the dominant philosophical outlook, which it currently is not. That's not to say that it can't be true, but as I have mentioned it shouldn't really have a strong impact on emotional comfort, it's simply a way of viewing how we function. Look in to Sam Harris if you want to hear the ideas of someone who is a hardline determinist who doesn't see a problem with it.



> I'm definitely a pessimist, and my way of viewing nihilism is that when I hear: 'Without morals or purpose, we are completely free' my first thought is that of "freedom" and how that can even correlate to anything except a belief in "free-will over determinism". My next thought is that if you can indeed do anything you desire, why should you? Happiness is only greater than depression to a subjective conciousness that is functioning in a way that evolution selects for. Objectively, happiness has no value. I lose my motivation to be happy upon DP.


The kind of freedom they refer to is the acceptance of the fact that we may experience any 'way of being' we choose (whether determined or by free-will, it doesn't matter) without any preconceived schema for how we should live our lives, experience it or what subjective thoughts we should have about it. 'Free-will' simply relates to the ability to make a decision without prior-cause or some kind of divine constraint., this is more of a description of how we function unrelated to views about why we are here. Your second thought is a symptom of overthinking everything, and devaluing your experience as a human just because it's subjective. Try to simplify things, you touch fire it hurts, you eat a nice meal it feels good. The reason for why we arrived to this mode of function, via evolution or something else shouldn't bother you. You can continue choosing to devalue your subjective experience but you will never be able to explain why you have it, so you might as well make the most of it. Life is all about exploring, a blank state of pure consciousness starts out and learns about its environment (what is hot, what is cold, what makes feel good, or bad) and shapes its subjective understanding through all these experiences. Every human and creature has a unique perspective of this, the one of being depressed is the least satisfactory form of this experience.



> I am currently under the impression that my depression, etc. is caused by a subtle mutation in my genetics that has caused my brain to function in a way that is "unfit for survival". This is how evolution works, no? I'm naturally selected against, because my brain genetics have mutated in a way that is a hindrance to my survival odds. It's random, and I don't want to cause any confusion here: I am not putting myself down, or saying that I believe myself to be inferior; it's simply a logical observation.


Evolution doesn't work in any way, it's simply the word we use to describe the progressive development of an organism. It's a random process where all kinds of things can happen, and no one can predict which traits will lead to survival and which will not. Depression can lead to self-terminating behavior, but can also keep you alive longer and more likely to reproduce since you will be less likely to partake in risky behavior. Someone who is the opposite of being depressed, happy, strong and full of life may die sooner as they will be more likely to partake in more risky behavior. Depression is pretty common, and treatable. It can be from a genetic mutation, your cycle of thinking, your biological health, your outlook on life and so on. You should not accept it because of external factors, life is pretty amazing when you function in a non-depressed state, or you will just miss out on anything worthwhile about it and die anyway. Why take the path of least resistance?


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