# thy's TMS Journal



## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

Following on from Elliott, I thought I would create my own journal. Tired of having DP and waiting for months and months to get anywhere with these shitty symptoms. I thought I would take the plunge and try TMS.


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## Alan (Jan 26, 2015)

Best of luck sir


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

Which area of the brain will be stimulated?


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## meekah (Sep 28, 2015)

make sure u get the third eye stimulated


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

TDX said:


> Which area of the brain will be stimulated?


Starting with right TPJ in accordance with the Mantovani study.


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## eddy1886 (Oct 11, 2012)

Good luck and let us all know how you get on


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

Well, if you have depersonalization of the body and loss of agency feelings there might be a good chance for it to work. According to a paper of their work group it improves all depersonalization symptoms, but it seems to be best in improving the aforementioned symptoms.

I wish you good luck. You will need it.

By the way: I would appreciate if you...

1. ...take the CDS-Trait and CDS-State before you start the treatment,

2. ...take the CDS-State after each session,

3. ...take the CDS-Trait again at the end of the treatment.

I just want to have some hard data.

For the CDS-Trait and CDS-State see:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/51969-questionnaires-to-measure-depersonalization/


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

TDX said:


> Well, if you have depersonalization of the body and loss of agency feelings there might be a good chance for it to work. According to a paper of their work group it improves all depersonalization symptoms, but it seems to be best in improving the aforementioned symptoms.


To be honest my worst symptom is emotional numbing. Hopefully also try right VLPFC. I have both disembodiment symptoms and lost of agency, but I wouldn't say they are my most prominent symptoms, or maybe they just bother me less.



TDX said:


> I wish you good luck. You will need it.


Thanks!


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

TDX said:


> By the way: I would appreciate if you...
> 
> 1. ...take the CDS-Trait and CDS-State before you start the treatment,
> 
> ...


Will do my best.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

See also what I added about the questionares in my post.

EDIT: Ahhh, you noticed it.


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## luctor et emergo (May 22, 2015)

To boldly go where one man has gone before.

Best of luck thy, we are rooting for you.


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## sydneyarnce (Dec 2, 2015)

Excited to hear what happens!


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

I had my first rTMS session yesterday afternoon. 30 minutes at rTPJ at 1Hz. Unfortunately today I don't feel any different. If anything a few of my symptoms are slightly worse, most noticeably feelings of disembodiment. Which is strange because I thought TMS at this site was meant to improve feelings of disembodiment.

I doubt I'll do any more sessions at rTPJ. I'll probably continue and try at rVLPFC since emotional numbing is by far my worst symptom. My DPDR is so bad at the moment that I don't really mind risking my symptoms getting slightly worse at this stage.

In terms of the experience. It feels like being hit quite hard by a ruler over and over at the same place. It's uncomfortable but not painful. My jaw also twitched a bit during the treatment but its only mildly uncomfortable. I didn't have any other side effects.


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## Alan (Jan 26, 2015)

In the few trials I've read about the treatment protocol involved several weeks of treatment, so I'd try and keep a healthy level of optimism, it's still early days yet


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

Looking at my qEEG again, I have over activity at the rVLPFC but at the rTPJ the activity is pretty normal. So it would perhaps make sense that TMS at the TPJ didn't really help. But still, I wouldn't have thought inhibiting at TPJ would make disembodiment worse, hmm. TDX? Will be interesting to see what happens when I do the rVLPFC.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

As far as I understand even when the activity in one brain region is normal stimulating it might change the activity of a whole network in such a way that symptoms might be improved. Conversely targeting overactive brain regions may not improve symptoms, because correlation does not necessarily mean causation. But if the TPJ makes the symptoms worse after one session this could mean, that this is not the right target. As far as I remember in the Sierra study where they applied just one stimulation at each of the both brain region, both could improve symptoms, so maybe one session can predict if the target makes sense or not.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

I'd expect better effects with rVLPFC stimulation, if your symptoms are of a certain type.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

Interesting paper

http://sites.lsa.umich.edu/monk-lab/wp-content/uploads/sites/179/2014/10/yoa80002_568_576-1.pdf


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

So in anxiety disorders the VLPFC is underactive and in DPD it is in overdrive mode. But how does this change if anxiety gets particulary severe and causes DP?


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

From what I understand, for a given level of VLPFC activity, GAD patients will have greater amygdala activation (and therefore anxiety, since the two are positively correlated) compared to controls. Or looking at it the other way around, for a given level of amygdala activation, GAD patients will have greater VLPFC activation.

The amygdala is underactive in DP people (right?), but I'm not sure if the relation between VLPFC activation and RA activation in DPD is different to that in controls. Maybe in the Neglected Syndrome book?

There is also something interesting I read in that book. DPD patients rate their subjective feelings of anxiety as higher than controls, even though physiologically they are less anxious. So its possible for people with DP to feel very anxious, but to not be anxious physiologically (i.e still have suppressed amygdala activity, and presumably therefore overactive VLPFC).

Or maybe, in people with anxiety disorders, since VLPFC is under active - therefore heightened feelings of anxiety in general. In people who only get DP when anxious - anxiety induces amygdala activity (or vice versa), and following this VLPFC becomes overactive to shut down amygdala activity - DP person then feels less anxious and the DP then goes away. This would be different to people with chronic DPD.

I could be talking crap.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

rVLPFC 15 mins 1Hz. No luck unfortunately. Nothing good nothing bad. Maybe very slightly worse. Still not totally convinced about the accuracy of the method that's used to position the coil. Seems open to a lot of human error. Dr Neal is a very nice guy though.


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## Stevemc92 (Jul 31, 2016)

Good luck


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

Stevemc92 said:


> Good luck


I already did it and it didn't work. But thanks!


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## luctor et emergo (May 22, 2015)

How are you feeling now about the fact rTMS is not very successful to this point?


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## Lostherheart (Jan 23, 2017)

How many TMS treatments did you have all together? Back in November I had 10 treatments and didn't notice any difference at all. My husband said he noticed more external outward emotions but as we know just because we look normal doesn't mean we feel it or feel anything for that matter???? But I'm going to go back and try it again, maybe if I have different areas of my brain that they try to shock or stimulate whatever you want to call it.... it will make some kind of a difference. Also my biggest symptom that I have a problem with it is emotional nothing, I feel like if I could feel like a person if I could have any type of emotions I would give two shits about anything else going on with me.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

luctor et emergo said:


> How are you feeling now about the fact rTMS is not very successful to this point?


wow this feels like a long time ago. It was I guess. Also kind of feels like it never happened, strange. It was disappointing for sure.



Lostherheart said:


> How many TMS treatments did you have all together? Back in November I had 10 treatments and didn't notice any difference at all. My husband said he noticed more external outward emotions but as we know just because we look normal doesn't mean we feel it or feel anything for that matter But I'm going to go back and try it again, maybe if I have different areas of my brain that they try to shock or stimulate whatever you want to call it.... it will make some kind of a difference. Also my biggest symptom that I have a problem with it is emotional nothing, I feel like if I could feel like a person if I could have any type of emotions I would give two shits about anything else going on with me.


I had two 30 minute sessions. One at right TPJ, the other at right VLPFC. I agree, we can seem totally normal but internally be very far from it. Do you know what brain areas you had targeted? I miss emotions the most too.


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## Lostherheart (Jan 23, 2017)

.


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## Lostherheart (Jan 23, 2017)

They did the FCL I emailed the guy that runs the BTC he's going to give me another two weeks of treatment. I'm hoping for some kind of something. I definitely cannot go on like this, without feeling anything I don't even get fear or adrenaline the thing I miss the most of all is love.


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

You only did one 15 minute session and gave up!!!? Why not do it for at least a week or two for 30 min each?


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

DPFighter said:


> You only did one 15 minute session and gave up!!!?


No. I did 2 30 minute sessions.



DPFighter said:


> Why not do it for at least a week or two for 30 min each?


Because that would have been a waste of money. Unlike with depression, for DP if you dont respond to TMS straight away its unlikely to work at all.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

Lostherheart said:


> They did the FCL I emailed the guy that runs the BTC he's going to give me another two weeks of treatment. I'm hoping for some kind of something. I definitely cannot go on like this, without feeling anything I don't even get fear or adrenaline the thing I miss the most of all is love.


FCL? BTC?


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## Lostherheart (Jan 23, 2017)

thy said:


> No. I did 2 30 minute sessions.
> 
> Because that would have been a waste of money. Unlike with depression, for DP if you dont respond to TMS straight away its unlikely to work at all.


Why do you say if it doesn't work right away it won't work?


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## Lostherheart (Jan 23, 2017)

BTC www.braintreatmentcenter.com 
I had an EEG done and it shows an overactive prefrontal cortex, big surprise right. So they are focusing the coil on the center of my prefrontal cortex. I have had 5 treatments on the center of my prefrontal cortex and have not noticed any difference with my depersonalization. My main symptom is complete lack of emotions. And I also feel like I'm high all the time.


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