# Long Term Benzo Use



## AndyD

Hey guys,
This is a bit lengthy but please take a minute to read: I posted some of this on another thread, but wanted to post it here too as its own Topic because its really had a profound impact on me and may save some of you. It involves using benzos long term (longer than 9 weeks). I understand that many on you probably have used benzos to help with some symptoms of DP and/or anxiety, but I really wanted to inform you of the potential dangers associated with using these drugs for the management of your symptoms. The consequences can be quite serious. Using these can have a devastating impact on your central nervous system and your brain overtime and will ultimately make your DP, anxiety, depression, and other conditions much worse. Maybe some of you know this but I'm sure many of you don't. And if you think you know, you don;t know to the "degree" you need to know. I know I didn't. I took Klonopin for 10 years daily (prescribed by doc) to deal with the DP but never had a full understanding of the dangers. Overtime I began getting sicker and sicker. The problem is that I did not know I was getting sicker from the drug until it was too late. I developed a huge huge list of new symptoms that I complained to my doctor about on every visit over the 10 years but he continually denied that this was from the klonopin. Instead he blamed my disorder and told me to increase my dosage. Not once did he ever explain that the emergence of these new symptoms and worsening of existing symptoms could be related to benzos and what is known as "Tolerance Withdrawal". Nor did he explain the potential of toxicity. I would suspect that all your brilliant doctors would do the same thing if you approached them in this dilemma. In short, I spent 10 years of my life spiraling out of control with illness all attributed to using this stuff long term. It can happen with or without you being aware of it because benzos have subtle effects that are often hard to pick up on and interpret. Most of the time you don't realize they are infact the "Cause" of you getting much sicker or not "making any progress" with the DP or other conditions. People can go on years and years suffering from this garbage before they realize its not "them", its the drug. You'll start to realize how powerful the drug has been all along when you build up a tolerance to it, or you start to cut back and withdraw.

Please, spend some time on www.benzobuddies.org. Hopefully you'll learn a bit about the possibities of mental and phsyical deterioration using these drugs. Even if its the only thing that helps your DP I would try to stop because the consequence can end up being much worse than your original problems. I know what your thinking right now... "You'll never end up getting sick like those people and/or you'll stop when you get the warning signs of getting sick from it" It doesn't work like that unfortunately. By the time you realize the benzo's aren't working anymore or are actually causing MORE DP and anxiety... its too late. You've just down-regulated your GABA receptors and it can take YEARS for them to start working again. YEARS in many cases. Not months. All the while you will suffer extremely bad. If you think you have bad anxiety and DP now, just wait till your GABA is not working. The only thing keeping you half sane (being that you have DP) is your GABA. Without GABA all hell breaks loose... your disease will end up morphing into mental states you never thought were possible. Trust me you'll wish you were dead than go through the suffering of a donwregulated GABA system. If you ever want half a chance at feeling well and beating the DP please taper off. Benzos ultimately end up causing more DP, anxiety, depression and lot of other disorders. Always. Its just a matter of time. If you actually smart enough to read this and decide you want off your Benzo. You MUST taper off VERY VERY slowly. The slower you go the less chance you have at kicking off a new disorder (like schizophrenic, phychosis or autoimmune disorders) and the less chance you have at developing protracted withdrawal symptoms that will ruin your life. I have no idea what your symptoms are and how much or how often you take benzos but I assure you it doesn't matter... the stuff kills. Some may think I'm crossing the line by telling people to come off there meds but seriously I don't give a shit. I'm right! Your doc and the medical community is wrong. This stuff is worse than heroin. BY FAAAR. Check at the Asthon Manual at Benzo.uk.org for more information and how to safely taper off. Please also read the Wikipedias on "Long Term effects of Benzodiazepines" and "Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome". I know this is a pretty intense post and I don't mean to scare any of ya'll, I just want don't want any of you to fall victim to it. Good luck and hope you all get well.

AndyD


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## kate_edwin

I'm fairly certain you can't get schizophrenia from stopping then.

They are not long term mess unless you have seizures, and even then you'll probably devlop a tollerence. Benzos should be used at the lowest dose nessicary, and as needed if possible. I use two I take very once in a while. But did have a run in when my dr had me on klonopin 3 times a day and another doc decided to stop that cold. Don't stop them on your own. If you decrease your seizure threshold too fast you have get seizures


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## opie37060

Thanks for the post. I don't think benzo's are worse then heroin though.


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## kate_edwin

I think the point try become that bad is when you've been on a big dose for 7 10 years plus.


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## shellofme

kate_edwin said:


> I think the point try become that bad is when you've been on a big dose for 7 10 years plus.


Not true, I got dp rom benzo withdrawal and was only taking klonopin once a day for several months. Only 1 mg, didn't abuse it at all. Benzos are dangerous, be careful with them!


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## My storm ran out of rain

I agree with Shell. I was on Klonopin for 2 months and when I stopped I developed DP 2 weeks later. I am now back on Klonopin for the past 3 months cuz it's the ONLY thing that will stop my panic attacks. very small dose though, .5 mg. I'm sure it's different with everyone though. And yeah, 10 years prolly a little long to rely on them. Good info though Andy, for those that plan to use them long term!


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## lil P nut

i pop a klonopin or two one or twice a week. Is this ok? I've been doing this for about 6 months.


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## My storm ran out of rain

Micah319 said:


> i pop a klonopin or two one or twice a week. Is this ok? I've been doing this for about 6 months.


Man if thats all you take you got nothin to worry about...........


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## lil P nut

hello other world said:


> Man if thats all you take you got nothin to worry about...........


I hope so, i try to only use them for stressful situations but idk if its good to keep taking them twice a week. I wont get addicted will i? my nervous system already feels fucked


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## shellofme

Micah319 said:


> I hope so, i try to only use them for stressful situations but idk if its good to keep taking them twice a week. I wont get addicted will i? my nervous system already feels fucked


Micah, the thing is benzos were never intended to be used long term, say longer than 2-4 weeks. It basically makes your GABBA receptors shut down in time and causes much more problems than stress and anxiety. In other countries like the UK they won't give people benzos longer than 2 months I believe, because your body becomes dependent on them so easiy. Don't freak out about it, but definitely find other coping skills for when you're stressed so you don't rely on the klonopin.


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## lil P nut

shellofme said:


> Micah, the thing is benzos were never intended to be used long term, say longer than 2-4 weeks. It basically makes your GABBA receptors shut down in time and causes much more problems than stress and anxiety. In other countries like the UK they won't give people benzos longer than 2 months I believe, because your body becomes dependent on them so easiy. Don't freak out about it, but definitely find other coping skills for when you're stressed so you don't rely on the klonopin.


even if i only do it twice a week?


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## My storm ran out of rain

Micah319 said:


> even if i only do it twice a week?


Micah, How many milligrams are you taking? Klonopin has a long half life. It can take 3-5 days for it to be completely out of your system. So if you feel the need to take it every 4 or 5 days without needing it for a panic attack, there may be a slight dependency to it. Doubt it though. I certainly wouldn't stress over it


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## forestx5

Interesting fact: you can kick the heroin habit cold turkey, without serious consequences for your health. If you are addicted to benzos or alcohol, withdrawal can have serious health consequences including seizure and death. I have heard similar horror stories about benzo addiction/withdrawal. Must be rough, because it makes anti benzo crusaders out of folks.


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## kate_edwin

That's because benzos raise your seizure threshold and heroin doesn't. So when you stop them suddenly it lowers the threshold to lower then normal, which causes a seizure

it's really individual, if you're concerned talk to a pharmacologist or an addicion specialist? I've got lorazepam and klonazepam, the second is disolving ao it works in like 10 minutes. 30 doses last me at least 3 months if not 6 or more. Havig two dif meds also cuts down the chance of dependance on either one, but I really don't use them much anymore. I've also used seroquel, benadryl, alpha and beta blockers, those aren't addictive


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## opie37060

Interesting thread. I used to take kolonopins since the age of 20. I am now 30. 1mg twice a day. I quit cold turkey without any side effects or problems. I'm not saying that was smart but everyone reacts different to any medication they are on. If i have any side effects from the 10 years I was on kolonpin I don't notice them.


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## Timer

OK - So i get the whole benzo abuse, and longterm really isnt want they are designed for.

But what would be an effective way of using them then? A safe way as well? Small dosage only when needed? Regularly but only for a short time?


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## cbeck

When I got DP, I was on this forum in 99. I was so desperate, I pmd Dreamer and asked what she took. Alot was spoke of klonopin, so I ran to my gp and he gave me Klonopin. I tried 2 mgs and it knocked me out so I lowered it to 1 mg for many years. I quickly grew tolerance to it and found myself drinking alot to get some feelings of emotion and escape the DR as klonopin never killed my dp just allowed me to forget about it. I have taken it for 12 years now and would like to taper off with the benzo.uk method by switching over to valium but am scared. I have been recently having panick attacks from hell, unable to sleep, agoraphobic you all know the routine.I am not sure that the klonopin is doing anything anymore besides giving me the ability to think abit clearer. When I had a real bad spell here a while back and felt as if I was dying, it did bring me out of that but when it wears off all I can do is OCD about the DR because its so bad. I take 2mg a night and if anything it keeps me up. Sometimes when I cant sleep I take a lil trazadone and that knocks me out but makes my dr and anxiety worse when I awake. I was on Ambien before all this and that sent me into a hellish Depression and Panick attacks with extreme Dp/DR. Worked like a miracle at first but in a year I was growing tolerance to it and although I have been off it for nearly 2 months, I still think I may be suffering some w-d from it. It is a benzo like hypnotic. Benzos just seem like a double edged sword to me. They work great but eventually you grow tolerance to them, then what do you do? Keep uping the dose, how far do you go before it wrecks your CNS? Any advice? Seemed as if I was ok until I added Ambien to the Combo then my sleep got all messed up when I grew tolerance. It worked so good in the beginning that I was only taking .5 mg of klonopin and 10 mg of Ambien. Sorry so long, just not sure what the right thing to do is. The pdocs around here are 3 hrs away and dont know anything but my gp will work with me. Anyone use clonidine as I have high blood pressure. Any advice?
Thanks,
Cbeck


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## cbeck

hello other world said:


> I agree with Shell. I was on Klonopin for 2 months and when I stopped I developed DP 2 weeks later. I am now back on Klonopin for the past 3 months cuz it's the ONLY thing that will stop my panic attacks. very small dose though, .5 mg. I'm sure it's different with everyone though. And yeah, 10 years prolly a little long to rely on them. Good info though Andy, for those that plan to use them long term!


Wow, I have heard that you can get DP from Benzo w-d. But it my case it was high stress with calving cows and guiding hunters over a long stressful spring. Sometimes I wish I would have never taken klonopin for my dp but I was so desperate for over a year. I often wonder if this could have inhibited me from coming out of dp? It was hell as you know, I was desperate and had to try something.The Prozac and Zoloft they put me on about sent me over the edge. Hard when I look at my tractors and cant appreciate them or the cattle.


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## cbeck

AndyD said:


> Hey guys,
> This is a bit lengthy but please take a minute to read: I posted some of this on another thread, but wanted to post it here too as its own Topic because its really had a profound impact on me and may save some of you. It involves using benzos long term (longer than 9 weeks). I understand that many on you probably have used benzos to help with some symptoms of DP and/or anxiety, but I really wanted to inform you of the potential dangers associated with using these drugs for the management of your symptoms. The consequences can be quite serious. Using these can have a devastating impact on your central nervous system and your brain overtime and will ultimately make your DP, anxiety, depression, and other conditions much worse. Maybe some of you know this but I'm sure many of you don't. And if you think you know, you don;t know to the "degree" you need to know. I know I didn't. I took Klonopin for 10 years daily (prescribed by doc) to deal with the DP but never had a full understanding of the dangers. Overtime I began getting sicker and sicker. The problem is that I did not know I was getting sicker from the drug until it was too late. I developed a huge huge list of new symptoms that I complained to my doctor about on every visit over the 10 years but he continually denied that this was from the klonopin. Instead he blamed my disorder and told me to increase my dosage. Not once did he ever explain that the emergence of these new symptoms and worsening of existing symptoms could be related to benzos and what is known as "Tolerance Withdrawal". Nor did he explain the potential of toxicity. I would suspect that all your brilliant doctors would do the same thing if you approached them in this dilemma. In short, I spent 10 years of my life spiraling out of control with illness all attributed to using this stuff long term. It can happen with or without you being aware of it because benzos have subtle effects that are often hard to pick up on and interpret. Most of the time you don't realize they are infact the "Cause" of you getting much sicker or not "making any progress" with the DP or other conditions. People can go on years and years suffering from this garbage before they realize its not "them", its the drug. You'll start to realize how powerful the drug has been all along when you build up a tolerance to it, or you start to cut back and withdraw.
> 
> Please, spend some time on www.benzobuddies.org. Hopefully you'll learn a bit about the possibities of mental and phsyical deterioration using these drugs. Even if its the only thing that helps your DP I would try to stop because the consequence can end up being much worse than your original problems. I know what your thinking right now... "You'll never end up getting sick like those people and/or you'll stop when you get the warning signs of getting sick from it" It doesn't work like that unfortunately. By the time you realize the benzo's aren't working anymore or are actually causing MORE DP and anxiety... its too late. You've just down-regulated your GABA receptors and it can take YEARS for them to start working again. YEARS in many cases. Not months. All the while you will suffer extremely bad. If you think you have bad anxiety and DP now, just wait till your GABA is not working. The only thing keeping you half sane (being that you have DP) is your GABA. Without GABA all hell breaks loose... your disease will end up morphing into mental states you never thought were possible. Trust me you'll wish you were dead than go through the suffering of a donwregulated GABA system. If you ever want half a chance at feeling well and beating the DP please taper off. Benzos ultimately end up causing more DP, anxiety, depression and lot of other disorders. Always. Its just a matter of time. If you actually smart enough to read this and decide you want off your Benzo. You MUST taper off VERY VERY slowly. The slower you go the less chance you have at kicking off a new disorder (like schizophrenic, phychosis or autoimmune disorders) and the less chance you have at developing protracted withdrawal symptoms that will ruin your life. I have no idea what your symptoms are and how much or how often you take benzos but I assure you it doesn't matter... the stuff kills. Some may think I'm crossing the line by telling people to come off there meds but seriously I don't give a shit. I'm right! Your doc and the medical community is wrong. This stuff is worse than heroin. BY FAAAR. Check at the Asthon Manual at Benzo.uk.org for more information and how to safely taper off. Please also read the Wikipedias on "Long Term effects of Benzodiazepines" and "Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome". I know this is a pretty intense post and I don't mean to scare any of ya'll, I just want don't want any of you to fall victim to it. Good luck and hope you all get well.
> 
> AndyD


Hey Andy, do you still have DP? Mine was induced by stress or mono, probably both. I started on 1 mg and now am up to 2 mg at bed time. It does help my concentration and dp somewhat but no longer puts me to sleep. I can feel myself go into wd after 8-10 hrs of taking it. I dont know if I should try 1mg at night and one in the morn and then try the Ashton method by switching over to Diazapam and gradual taper during summer when I am more busy and less anxiety. Winters are my hardest times. How was coming off for you? Hard? I am having panick attacks almost daily now at 2mg a night and am concerned. Have became quite agoraphobic again. Feel as if I am reliving my first onset of dr 12 years ago. Your input would be appreciated. 
Thanks,
Cbeck


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## My storm ran out of rain

cbeck32 said:


> Wow, I have heard that you can get DP from Benzo w-d. But it my case it was high stress with calving cows and guiding hunters over a long stressful spring. Sometimes I wish I would have never taken klonopin for my dp but I was so desperate for over a year. I often wonder if this could have inhibited me from coming out of dp? It was hell as you know, I was desperate and had to try something.The Prozac and Zoloft they put me on about sent me over the edge. Hard when I look at my tractors and cant appreciate them or the cattle.


I know what you mean, I look at all my equipment now and it all looks so big that it starts to give me a panic attack. I cant say for sure that it was the Klonopin withdrawal that started my DP because the whole reason I had all this shit happen to me is from a drug called Reglan. Don't EVER take it. It's for digestive problems. It ate away at me so slowly that I didn't notice what it was doing until it was too late. All serotonin and dopamine receptors went bye bye. Seems like it should be an easy fix but it's proving not to be. I am back on small dose of Klonopin .5 to .75 a day. helps keep me from having a full blown panic attack but I can tell the panic is still there.


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## kate_edwin

you need to ask your psychiatrist or pharmacist how to tapper off benzos for you


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## lil P nut

im gonna go two weeks without taking one and see if i have a seizure.


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## York

I've been on a benzo called Alopam and then Sobril for three years, since the beginning of this shit. The only thing that works for me is to take it every day at the same time. It's what has stabilized my nerves and dp. I'd be dead if I hadn't done it like that. Taking one now and then is just crazy, you'll have withdrawal every time you do it and the dp and anxiety will be much worse. Speaking of course of people who have chronic dp like me..

I do however, KNOW, that some symptoms I believed to be dp, is in fact the benzo, which is pretty crazy. I stopped taking it in the morning once I finally managed to see it, and my "dp" symptoms dropped 25%.

I'm counting on death before I have to get off them.


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## York

Micah319 said:


> im gonna go two weeks without taking one and see if i have a seizure.


Klonopin is different, it's anti seizure meds, right? I wouldn't mess with that.. Like some pointed out.


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## Guest

York said:


> Klonopin is different, it's anti seizure meds, right? I wouldn't mess with that.. Like some pointed out.


Been On Klonopin for many years, Am starting to develop the tolerance, I know I would have to check into a clinic to get off, but right now thats simply not an option. My question is, it can be prescribed up to 20 times a day for seizure patients, how is it they can be on it for there entire lives without issue??


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## AndyD

Haven't been on here in a while and was just reading through the responses to the original post. I think many of the DP sufferers on here taking benzos on a daily basis (klonopin or xanax in particular) would be surprised to know that they could have beaten the DP a long time ago if they weren't taking the benzos or never took the benzos in the first place. IN other words, taking the benzos is preventing you from healing or at least getting somewhat better. You CAN NOT beat DP if you are taking Benzos on a daily basis. No chance. 0% chance. Trust me on this. And if you stopped benzos today and in 8 months still did not feel well or felt sicker than when you were on the benzos.... its still because you took benzos! Not because you need benzos. IT takes YEARS for long term users to heal from benzo use. It truly wrecks your CNS and brain. This isn't an SSRI or some crap. Its the real deal stuff!!! Many people on here don't understand this and a lot of doctors don't understand this. Benzos keep you sick for as long as you take them and sometimes years after you stop taking them. IT causes DP, anxiety, depression, panic, ocd, depression, etc. and a lot of the time you don't know it because you keep taking them to mask the symptoms.

The drug manufacturer states that it should not be taken long term and no studies have even been done for use over something like 11 weeks. Psychiatrists prescribing this shit long term are making people sick as dogs for years. Nice way to get repeat business thats for sure! I do want to clarify one thing... Not everyone taking this stuff will end up a vegetable from it and not everyone will have an excruciating protracted withdrawal that lasts for years. This will vary from person to person. There are some very lucky individuals that come off and end up relatively okay but those folks are few and far between. On the other end of the spectrum there is a small group of long term users that literally have there brains and central nervous systems fried and suffer for years after they come off. And there is everything in between those two ends of it, but my advice is don't mess with the stuff. Its playing Russian roulette. Trust me I lived it and I know many others that took it a much shorter time than me and got screwed bad from it. YOu don't get any advanced warning that you are getting sicker from it. When you finally realize its causing more harm and more symptoms you never even had before.... you're screwed!! "You're on 2mgs for 5 years and having more panic on the drug than you've ever had in your life?" You're in for it!! Its the drug doing that and now your in for a long hard road, cause you didn't even start the taper yet. Once you hit that point its all down hill and keeps getting worse for a long long time.

People on this forum should also consider that you may have a greater chance of being in the small group of of folksthat benzos can end up doing some real damage to. If you have DP its not like your synapses are working all that well to begin with, which means you may end up being in the pool of folks that it backfires and/or has protracted symptoms. In any event, I am really not trying to scare anyone here. I'm just trying to explain the dangers of this stuff and give everyone a chance at actually getting well. You won't have that chance taking benzos on a daily basis. I wish someone told me that a long time ago.


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## TheStarter

You stated the obvious, and i agree, "Never quit Benzo's cold turkey"

Thanks for sharing.


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## Guest

Andy D- How long and what dose and what drug were you on?


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## AndyD

JG10 said:


> Andy D- How long and what dose and what drug were you on?


Was on it for 10 years, doses ranging from .5 to 1.5 per day. Again, I had no idea about the possible consequences of using it long term and using it all for that matter. The docs prescribing it never uttered one word about tolerance, protracted withdrawal, toxicity, worsening of existing conditions and the possibility of developing new symtpoms and problems. Its kinda ridiculous how naive I was to think it couldn't have these problems. I never really did research on the drug. I did for all of the other drugs I was given but never for that one. I don't know why. I guess you live and learn. Sometimes the hard way.

Steffa.... in regards to your comment about the quiting cold turkey. I never quit cold turkey and wasn't really talking about that at all. I did a 3 month taper. But that is a good point anyway.... quitting cold turkey is not a good idea at all.


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## aloof

shellofme said:


> Micah, the thing is benzos were never intended to be used long term, say longer than 2-4 weeks. It basically makes your GABBA receptors shut down in time and causes much more problems than stress and anxiety. In other countries like the UK they won't give people benzos longer than 2 months I believe, because your body becomes dependent on them so easiy. Don't freak out about it, but definitely find other coping skills for when you're stressed so you don't rely on the klonopin.


You might want to do a bit more research before posting. Klonopin was initially developed as an anti-seizure medication to be used long term. The 2-4 week thing is how (most)shrinks prescribe it today, to give immediate relief of anxiety/depression/ocd until a another horrid drug like prozac or effexor kicks in. Then off the klonopin so you can wreck your serotonin receptors by staying on an SSRI for 10 years, and have no sex life. fun fun. Pick your poison. Its a crap shoot. Klonopin is proven time and again to be the best drug for DPD. If you don't want to risk withdrawals, then dont take ANY med long term. Klonopin and Trileptal together make my DP about 75% better. Yeah I could come off it, possibly put up with some bad side effects for awhile, but ultimately I will be right back where I was before I went this route. And I do not ever want to be in that place again.


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## aloof

Fearless said:


> Benzos will only hide the problem from you and make it even harder to solve. Harsh truth.


Hide what problem? Unless you have some traumatic life event or some other identifiable trigger for your DPD, and you can work through that via therapy, then its either live with the fact that chemically your brain doesn't work quite right and put up with the symptoms, or take something to try to balance things out and get some relief to live a more fulfilling life. These sorts of broad assumptions irritate the hell out of me...Harsh truth? Know what that is? Accepting the fact you have this, and doing what you can to alleviate it and move on an enjoy life as best you can. Some don't need meds, others it helps immensely.


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## aloof

godson said:


> are you serious lol, heroin withdrawal is far more dangerous than benzo withdrawal the risk of dying is much higher.


Amazing the amount of misinformation and exaggeration. Half the people that claim to have these horrid withdrawals probably talked themselves into it by reading so much crap about it. Lots of meds give withdrwal if you come off them improperly. Benzos included, but by know means is it unique to this class of drug. Go read up on Effexor withdrawal... in some studies people have gotten withdrawal from placebo. Interesting.


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## aloof

johnh6789 said:


> I take .5 of klonopin twice a day on weekdays before work and after lunch and I take 1mg at meetings and when I have to do a presentation at work. Started at 1/4 of a .5 about 8 years ago. I think I may try to cut it out completely except when giving presentations and in meetings. Then try to cut it out for them as well and only take propanolol for those. They are highly addictive and I'm sure there can be horrible withdrawal symptoms but they do help cope. Isn't it funny how the ones which are habit forming, and eventually stop working are the most helpful at first...


Be careful with phrases like "habit forming" and "addiction". Those imply abuse. Taking a prescribed medication therapeutically under doctors supervision does not result in addiction. Tolerance and withdrawal are another story altogether. Those have to be dealt with...with many meds and yes benzos. And any med that is fast acting will tend to cause tolerance and potential withdrawal when stopping, and will be dose dependent. My advice is keep the baseline dose as low as possible and back off when you don't need as much, and the days where DP symptoms are worse, take a bit more.


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## aloof

AndyD said:


> Haven't been on here in a while and was just reading through the responses to the original post. I think many of the DP sufferers on here taking benzos on a daily basis (klonopin or xanax in particular) would be surprised to know that they could have beaten the DP a long time ago if they weren't taking the benzos or never took the benzos in the first place. IN other words, taking the benzos is preventing you from healing or at least getting somewhat better. You CAN NOT beat DP if you are taking Benzos on a daily basis. No chance. 0% chance. Trust me on this. And if you stopped benzos today and in 8 months still did not feel well or felt sicker than when you were on the benzos.... its still because you took benzos! Not because you need benzos. IT takes YEARS for long term users to heal from benzo use. It truly wrecks your CNS and brain. This isn't an SSRI or some crap. Its the real deal stuff!!! Many people on here don't understand this and a lot of doctors don't understand this. Benzos keep you sick for as long as you take them and sometimes years after you stop taking them. IT causes DP, anxiety, depression, panic, ocd, depression, etc. and a lot of the time you don't know it because you keep taking them to mask the symptoms.
> 
> The drug manufacturer states that it should not be taken long term and no studies have even been done for use over something like 11 weeks. Psychiatrists prescribing this shit long term are making people sick as dogs for years. Nice way to get repeat business thats for sure! I do want to clarify one thing... Not everyone taking this stuff will end up a vegetable from it and not everyone will have an excruciating protracted withdrawal that lasts for years. This will vary from person to person. There are some very lucky individuals that come off and end up relatively okay but those folks are few and far between. On the other end of the spectrum there is a small group of long term users that literally have there brains and central nervous systems fried and suffer for years after they come off. And there is everything in between those two ends of it, but my advice is don't mess with the stuff. Its playing Russian roulette. Trust me I lived it and I know many others that took it a much shorter time than me and got screwed bad from it. YOu don't get any advanced warning that you are getting sicker from it. When you finally realize its causing more harm and more symptoms you never even had before.... you're screwed!! "You're on 2mgs for 5 years and having more panic on the drug than you've ever had in your life?" You're in for it!! Its the drug doing that and now your in for a long hard road, cause you didn't even start the taper yet. Once you hit that point its all down hill and keeps getting worse for a long long time.
> 
> People on this forum should also consider that you may have a greater chance of being in the small group of of folksthat benzos can end up doing some real damage to. If you have DP its not like your synapses are working all that well to begin with, which means you may end up being in the pool of folks that it backfires and/or has protracted symptoms. In any event, I am really not trying to scare anyone here. I'm just trying to explain the dangers of this stuff and give everyone a chance at actually getting well. You won't have that chance taking benzos on a daily basis. I wish someone told me that a long time ago.


You are not an expert on DPD. Don't make statements that are absolute. Some of us have chronic DPD and there is no "beating" it. Have to live with it and accept it and adapt. There is a spectrum here, and for those that have severe or debilitating symptoms where they cannot leave the house or work, or otherwise lead a fulfilling life, Klonopin and a few other meds are shown to give some significant relief. No one says there are no risks. But some of what you say here is pure crap and extreme and there is little to support it. I can find online support groups for anything and any med for that matter with people posting horror story after horror story of bad reactions, withdrawals, alleged permanent brain damage etc. Much of the information you read about this is anecdotal. Unfortunately there are very few hard studies that provide any conclusive data on medications for DPD.


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## AndyD

Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I couldn't possibly disagree more with your comments Aloof. Suggesting that people "talk themselves into their withdrawals because they read so much about it" or that its a bunch of "misinformation" and "exaggeration" is ignorant and ridiculous. I think you are confusing a couple things here too. The issues with long term use of benzos is not so much the withdrawal as much as the neurophysiological changes that take place in the brain, particularly with the Glutamate/Gaba system. This can cause severe toxic effects and changes in brain function that may or may not reverse themselves.

Also, you don't necessarily need to come off benzos "improperly" to have protracted withdrawal symptoms. Many people taper over many months and still end up with long term problems from using the drug. They have problems and health issues they never had before starting the drug. Again, due to changes that take place in the CNS and brain. They are happening everyday you are using the drug, whether you are aware of it or not. Unfortunately, not everyone goes back to their "original" illness and "original" state after discontinuing. For some the drug has done some legitimate damage that can be difficult to reverse. If you've never experienced any problems using benzos or coming off benzos your lucky and I'm genuinely happy for you, but there are many many other people out there that are not so fortunate. I hope you never hit that point. Not everyone does, but I would argue that the longer anyone takes benzos (small does or not) the higher your chances.

What Micah said about benzos not being given long term in the UK is true. They do give it long term for seizures, but if you don't have a seizure disorder I wouldn't take it long term and docs shouldn't be prescribing long term. Even giving benzos long term for seizures is not really common anymore. That was before they came out with more effective and safer meds for long term use. Very rarely do they even give it for seizures unless you've failed on everything else.


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## aloof

AndyD said:


> Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I couldn't possibly disagree more with your comments Aloof. Suggesting that people "talk themselves into their withdrawals because they read so much about it" or that its a bunch of "misinformation" and "exaggeration" is ignorant and ridiculous. I think you are confusing a couple things here too. The issues with long term use of benzos is not so much the withdrawal as much as the neurophysiological changes that take place in the brain, particularly with the Glutamate/Gaba system. This can cause severe toxic effects and changes in brain function that may or may not reverse themselves.
> 
> Also, you don't necessarily need to come off benzos "improperly" to have protracted withdrawal symptoms. Many people taper over many months and still end up with long term problems from using the drug. They have problems and health issues they never had before starting the drug. Again, due to changes that take place in the CNS and brain. They are happening everyday you are using the drug, whether you are aware of it or not. Unfortunately, not everyone goes back to their "original" illness and "original" state after discontinuing. For some the drug has done some legitimate damage that can be difficult to reverse. If you've never experienced any problems using benzos or coming off benzos your lucky and I'm genuinely happy for you, but there are many many other people out there that are not so fortunate. I hope you never hit that point. Not everyone does, but I would argue that the longer anyone takes benzos (small does or not) the higher your chances.
> 
> What Micah said about benzos not being given long term in the UK is true. They do give it long term for seizures, but if you don't have a seizure disorder I wouldn't take it long term and docs shouldn't be prescribing long term. Even giving benzos long term for seizures is not really common anymore. That was before they came out with more effective and safer meds for long term use. Very rarely do they even give it for seizures unless you've failed on everything else.


Alcohol use and aging cause neurophysiological changes in the brain....many medications can be difficult to come off of for some people. There are always risks. I just think Benzos in particular get singled out as this evil class of drugs that no one in their right mind should ever take. Come on are you telling me you actually believe coming off of klonopin when used responsibly(not abused) is comparable to a person who is trying to beat an addiction to heroin? That is defo misinformation and exaggeration. Many prescription drugs are a double edged sword. There are people that do very well long term on klonopin, and in fact revert back to the same problems/symptoms when taken off of it. Please do not make generalizations and use scare tactics. I have been to 2 very good pdocs, both of whom are younger and progressive and think out of the box. Neither have an issue with responsible long term use of klonopin if it is the most(or only) effective medication for a particular patient.

And you should read a little better...Shellofme (not Micah) said it was never intended for long term use, and that is simply not true. No it is not often prescribed for seizures anymore, but it has a long enough half life that it can be used long term without as much a risk of tolerance or protracted withdrawal as say xanax.


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## AndyD

aloof said:


> Alcohol use and aging cause neurophysiological changes in the brain....many medications can be difficult to come off of for some people. There are always risks. I just think Benzos in particular get singled out as this evil class of drugs that no one in their right mind should ever take. Come on are you telling me you actually believe coming off of klonopin when used responsibly(not abused) is comparable to a person who is trying to beat an addiction to heroin? That is defo misinformation and exaggeration. Many prescription drugs are a double edged sword. There are people that do very well long term on klonopin, and in fact revert back to the same problems/symptoms when taken off of it. Please do not make generalizations and use scare tactics. I have been to 2 very good pdocs, both of whom are younger and progressive and think out of the box. Neither have an issue with responsible long term use of klonopin if it is the most(or only) effective medication for a particular patient.
> 
> And you should read a little better...Shellofme (not Micah) said it was never intended for long term use, and that is simply not true. No it is not often prescribed for seizures anymore, but it has a long enough half life that it can be used long term without as much a risk of tolerance or protracted withdrawal as say xanax.


I'm not out to use scare tactics here at all, I just happen to feel that using benzos long term is not a good choice for managing symptoms of DP. In fact, I think long term use is particularly problematic for someone with DP! I'm all for using it short term (a couple weeks) to help adjust to another medication or using it short term for panic attacks, but long term use is dangerous. I don't think people can recover from DP using a benzo. It keeps the DP/DR in full swing (whether you are aware of it or not) and ends up making it much worse overtime. I wish someone told me that a long time ago. I learned the hard way and have seen many people learn that the hard way. Some people think its fine and while I think that's a very unfortunate view to take... I can still respect that. But still I want to get a different perspective out there in hopes that it saves a few people from decade long DP that could have otherwise been gone or at least much better if not for the benzos. If I sound "too absolute" and "too certain" about it, its because I am. That's just my take.


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## My storm ran out of rain

AndyD said:


> I'm not out to use scare tactics here at all, I just happen to feel that using benzos long term is not a good choice for managing symptoms of DP. In fact, I think long term use is particularly problematic for someone with DP! I'm all for using it short term (a couple weeks) to help adjust to another medication or using it short term for panic attacks, but long term use is dangerous. I don't think people can recover from DP using a benzo. It keeps the DP/DR in full swing (whether you are aware of it or not) and ends up making it much worse overtime. I wish someone told me that a long time ago. I learned the hard way and have seen many people learn that the hard way. Some people think its fine and while I think that's a very unfortunate view to take... I can still respect that. But still I want to get a different perspective out there in hopes that it saves a few people from decade long DP that could have otherwise been gone or at least much better if not for the benzos. If I sound "too absolute" and "too certain" about it, its because I am. That's just my take.


Amen brother, Amen. Aloof, he's right


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## aloof

AndyD said:


> I'm not out to use scare tactics here at all, I just happen to feel that using benzos long term is not a good choice for managing symptoms of DP. In fact, I think long term use is particularly problematic for someone with DP! I'm all for using it short term (a couple weeks) to help adjust to another medication or using it short term for panic attacks, but long term use is dangerous. I don't think people can recover from DP using a benzo. It keeps the DP/DR in full swing (whether you are aware of it or not) and ends up making it much worse overtime. I wish someone told me that a long time ago. I learned the hard way and have seen many people learn that the hard way. Some people think its fine and while I think that's a very unfortunate view to take... I can still respect that. But still I want to get a different perspective out there in hopes that it saves a few people from decade long DP that could have otherwise been gone or at least much better if not for the benzos. If I sound "too absolute" and "too certain" about it, its because I am. That's just my take.


I had DPD for 20 years before I ever tried any meds. Trust me it wasnt going to "go away". there is no recovery for some of us. Its more like adapting to it and pushing forward in spite of it. Klonopin was the only med that made me feel semi normal. All antidepressants were hell for me esp SSRIs. Made my DP worse. Id sooner shoot myself than take Prozac or Zoloft. Anyway, there is my take. No its not perfect and there are risks but WTH I can at least feel like im not going through the motions and watching life pass me by. I am IN life now...living it. I will take that any day over what I had.


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## aloof

Hello Other World said:


> Amen brother, Amen. Aloof, he's right


There is no right or wrong. You do what you have to do. Everyone is different. There is a spectrum. Its not always black and white.


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## Blower

Hi all just read these interesting threads. I live in the UK and was prescribed Benzos by a top PDoc for 18m. So forget the 2-4 week thing. I was not warned about the very addictive nature of these drugs. You don’t need to be on a high dose or abuse them; therapeutic doses taken regularly for longer that a few weeks will cause severe dependence. I was originally diagnosed with anxiety with DP/DR as a symptom. After 18m the guy just told me to stop. All hell broke out and I had to reinstate and commence a very slow taper. I have a host of additional symptoms including severe Tinnitus and I still need to get rid of 3.9 mg of Valium. DP / DR is back worse than ever. What do I do? Is this a withdrawal reaction or the return of the original condition? I can’t go back on the drug because they don’t work like that so I am stuck between a rock and a very hard place. This drug has completely debilitated me and I am full of dread about the future. I was put on them within 4 weeks of the emergence of DP /DR following trauma so I don’t know if it would have gone with time or therapy. What I know now is I am struggling to get off an extremely addictive drug (which is by the way worse than heroin due to the nature of the withdrawal syndrome and the timescales associated with recovery which can go on for years) I have horrible additional symptoms and DP /DR symptoms which are considerably worse than I remember pre the Benzo. I really don’t know what to do and curse the day that I took this mind altering drug. If anyone doubts what this stuff does do to the unfortunate majority take a look at the BenzoBuddies forum to get a feel for the real world. I for one agree totally with the comments made by AndyD


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## aloof

Blower said:


> Hi all just read these interesting threads. I live in the UK and was prescribed Benzos by a top PDoc for 18m. So forget the 2-4 week thing. I was not warned about the very addictive nature of these drugs. You don't need to be on a high dose or abuse them; therapeutic doses taken regularly for longer that a few weeks will cause severe dependence. I was originally diagnosed with anxiety with DP/DR as a symptom. After 18m the guy just told me to stop. All hell broke out and I had to reinstate and commence a very slow taper. I have a host of additional symptoms including severe Tinnitus and I still need to get rid of 3.9 mg of Valium. DP / DR is back worse than ever. What do I do? Is this a withdrawal reaction or the return of the original condition? I can't go back on the drug because they don't work like that so I am stuck between a rock and a very hard place. This drug has completely debilitated me and I am full of dread about the future. I was put on them within 4 weeks of the emergence of DP /DR following trauma so I don't know if it would have gone with time or therapy. What I know now is I am struggling to get off an extremely addictive drug (which is by the way worse than heroin due to the nature of the withdrawal syndrome and the timescales associated with recovery which can go on for years) I have horrible additional symptoms and DP /DR symptoms which are considerably worse than I remember pre the Benzo. I really don't know what to do and curse the day that I took this mind altering drug. If anyone doubts what this stuff does do to the unfortunate majority take a look at the BenzoBuddies formum to get a feel for the real world. I for one agree totally with the comments made by AndyD


What benzo were you taking and how much per day? And yes you need to taper off over time. I would advise you not to read so much about the withdrawal its not going to help to read horror stories...you are already sounding as though it hopeless and that you are powerless by some of what you wrote. Thats not going to help you. Some people have more trouble than others, and perhaps if this was a short term problem(your DP due to trauma), benzos were not the right med for you to take, esp long term. That is(was) between you and your doc to determine.


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## aloof

And just one more thing I have to say because I am tired of reading it. Especially the damn comparisons to heroin. We are not talking about ADDICTION and DEPENDENCY. I have a cousin who has a heroin addiction. Its not pretty. She has gone through recovery programs and clinic after clinic. Methadone. She was a gorgeous girl, like a model. She is now grossly overweight. She steals, lies and cheats. She has Herpes from whoring around to get money. She cant work. That is ADDICTION. The issues with benzos are of TOLERANCE and WITHDRAWAL. Taken at responsible doses under the care of a qualified doctor, properly tapering off of them is NOTHING like what I described above. Stop reading all the hype and BS. No one said it was easy, but its certainly doable.


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## Blower

aloof said:


> What benzo were you taking and how much per day? And yes you need to taper off over time. I would advise you not to read so much about the withdrawal its not going to help to read horror stories...you are already sounding as though it hopeless and that you are powerless by some of what you wrote. Thats not going to help you. Some people have more trouble than others, and perhaps if this was a short term problem(your DP due to trauma), benzos were not the right med for you to take, esp long term. That is(was) between you and your doc to determine.


Thanks for your comments
I was on 2 mg ativan but crossed over to valium to taper. One of the things that I keep beating myself over is not researching the drug, I believed the Doc and took his advice as an expert. Whilst on ativan all symptoms did resolve so when he told me to stop the re emergence was quite shock to me. My negative sentiment is a result of the huge problem I am having stopping this med and the impact this has had on my life and I still seem to be left with the original issue to try and clear up.


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## aloof

Blower said:


> Thanks for your comments
> I was on 2 mg ativan but crossed over to valium to taper. One of the things that I keep beating myself over is not researching the drug, I believed the Doc and took his advice as an expert. Whilst on ativan all symptoms did resolve so when he told me to stop the re emergence was quite shock top me. My negative sentiment is a result of the huge problem I am having stopping this med and the impact this has had on my life and I still seem to be left with the original issue to try and clear up.


Ativan has a short half life so withdrawal after long term use can be an issue without crossing over to another med, thus the valium. Ive often wondered about the use of Neurontin for tapering. Its a med that acts on GABA but is not a benzo and not known to cause withdrawal itself.


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## Blower

aloof said:


> And just one more thing I have to say because I am tired of reading it. Especially the damn comparisons to heroin. We are not talking about ADDICTION and DEPENDENCY. I have a cousin who has a heroin addiction. Its not pretty. She has gone through recovery programs and clinic after clinic. Methadone. She was a gorgeous girl, like a model. She is now grossly overweight. She steals, lies and cheats. She has Herpes from whoring around to get money. She cant work. That is ADDICTION. The issues with benzos are of TOLERANCE and WITHDRAWAL. Taken at responsible doses under the care of a qualified doctor, properly tapering off of them is NOTHING like what I described above. Stop reading all the hype and BS. No one said it was easy, but its certainly doable.


We are all entitled to our opinions. Benzos make you physically and psychologically dependent due to the changes to the CNS and gaba receptors that down regulate and may or may not up regulate post the drug. What you don't get from Benzos is craving because you feel like shit and just want to get off them. I know of many people who are as debilitated as your cousin from these drugs and have lost everything. You are right it is not an ADDICTION but it certainly is DEPENDENCY which is Dr induced with the potential for TOLERANCE and bad WITHDRAWAL!


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## aloof

Blower said:


> We are all entitled to our opinions. Benzos make you physically and psychologically dependent due to the changes to the CNS and gaba receptors that down regulate and may or may not up regulate post the drug. What you don't get from Benzos is craving because you feel like shit and just want to get off them. I know of many people who are as debilitated as your cousin from these drugs and have lost everything. You are right it is not an ADDICTION but it certainly is DEPENDENCY which is Dr induced with the potential for TOLERANCE and bad WITHDRAWAL!


Dependency is a bit of a "gray" term...but it implies addiction and addictive behavior. The real issue is withdrawal. Btw this much is true- You can die of an overdose on heroin, that is not uncommon. Cant OD on benzos, but there is a small chance, quite remote but still a chance, that you could die if you stop taking them suddenly, do to a grand mal seizure. Same goes for any anti seizure med such as Lamictal or Trileptal- cant just STOP after being on it long term without that risk. The other thing of note here with respect to CNS changes, is that other meds that act on other receptors, whether it be serotonin, or dopamine, can carry the exact same risk when taken long term and then stopping. Read about Effexor if you want some horror stories about an SSRI with bad withdrawal and long term effects. There are always risks.


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## Blower

Aloof I think we gave reached common ground. Part of my problem is that I was fine on Benzos like you living a normal life and in some respect whilst I realise that it is not a sustainable position wish I had stayed on them. The problems arose when I started withdrawing and I now feel that I have to go back 10 paces before I can move forward. What are you planning to do regarding the Klonopin? The thing that I don't get is that they are only supposed to have effect for c a few months so how do they block DP for much longer? How do they block DP anyway

Cheers


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## aloof

Blower said:


> Aloof I think we gave reached common ground. Part of my problem is that I was fine on Benzos like you living a normal life and in some respect whilst I realise that it is not a sustainable position wish I had stayed on them. The problems arose when I started withdrawing and I now feel that I have to go back 10 paces before I can move forward. What are you planning to do regarding the Klonopin? The thing that I don't get is that they are only supposed to have effect for c a few months so how do they block DP for much longer? How do they block DP anyway
> 
> Cheers


I dont think they "block" DP....that is not even possible I dont believe. What I do know in my case, is that I have a predisposition to anxiety, I always have had it. Ive had panic attacks, OCD, but it evolved into DPD. I lived with it for 20 years and got to a breaking point as I was feeling as though my life was passing me by and I wasnt really "in it". Also have lots of odd body perceptions. I believe I have a pretty severe case of DPD. There is no event to tie the root of it to- so therapy is useless( I did try it). Finally decided to try meds and found that anti-seizure/anti anxiety meds were most effective. Not SSRIs or anything that worked on Serotonin. They were horrid for me. Tried Klonopin because I was so bad I was barely able to function normally and was scared of where I was going. It had an immediate and dramatic effect. I felt simply normal. Not inhibited. So after discussing it with my shrink, she had no issues with me taking it long term because she saw the improvement. No, after 3 years its not as effective(tolerance) but I know its much better than how I was before. So the reason benzos(klonopin in particular) are so effective for some with DPD, is the relationship of DPD to chronic anxiety. I think my brain is simply effed up in the GABA department and Klonopin sort of corrects it. I also take Trileptal. I refuse to up my dose though, so I take as little as I can and get by, and on worse days I take a bit more. Never more then 1 mg, and thats rare.


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## Blower

aloof, maybe that is why they worked for me. I don't have a history of anxiety or anything like OCD but I did get extremely anxious over the event that occurred to me and after about 6 weeks of increasing symptoms bang DP/DR. I really did panic and checked into a private hospital and the rest is history. So what do I do now. I am in the position you were in, not living and non functional and it is driving me mad, with the added benefit of constant Buzzing in my head.


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## aloof

Blower said:


> aloof, maybe that is why they worked for me. I don't have a history of anxiety or anything like OCD but I did get extremely anxious over the event that occurred to me and after about 6 weeks of increasing symptoms bang DP/DR. I really did panic and checked into a private hospital and the rest is history. So what do I do now. I am in the position you were in, not living and non functional and it is driving me mad, with the added benefit of constant Buzzing in my head.


Why not try Klonopin? Ativan was a bad choice on your docs part IMO. It has too short a half-life to stay on it long term, thus the problems you are having. Klonopin was actually developed initially as an anti-seizure med and has a long half life like Valium. And it seems the most effective benzo for DPD by far for those that have had success with it. And since you are on Valium anyway(which is crap for DP, Ive never heard anyone say it does anything), I would switch to Klonopin.


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## My storm ran out of rain

Blower said:


> Aloof I think we gave reached common ground. Part of my problem is that I was fine on Benzos like you living a normal life and in some respect whilst I realise that it is not a sustainable position wish I had stayed on them. The problems arose when I started withdrawing and I now feel that I have to go back 10 paces before I can move forward. What are you planning to do regarding the Klonopin? The thing that I don't get is that they are only supposed to have effect for c a few months so how do they block DP for much longer? How do they block DP anyway
> 
> Cheers


The 10 paces backwards are part of the withdrawal, you have to go backwards before you can go forwards. I been off Klonopin for over 6 weeks now and I still feel like shit, and my PHYSICAL anxiety is through the roof, but my DP is almost non-existent now even though up until recently it was terrible (because of withdrawal). Kpins bloccked the DP for me for a while. couple months at most, but after that, I feel like it just prolonged my recovery. BUT I will say that the Klonopin prolly saved my life in the beginning, just wish somebody wouldve told me to quit taking it sooner


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## aloof

BUCK U said:


> The 10 paces backwards are part of the withdrawal, you have to go backwards before you can go forwards. I been off Klonopin for over 6 weeks now and I still feel like shit, and my PHYSICAL anxiety is through the roof, but my DP is almost non-existent now even though up until recently it was terrible (because of withdrawal). Kpins bloccked the DP for me for a while. couple months at most, but after that, *I feel like it just prolonged my recovery.* BUT I will say that the Klonopin prolly saved my life in the beginning, just wish somebody wouldve told me to quit taking it sooner


DPD is not well studied or understood. Difficult to recover from something that may very well be a perception related physiological dysfunction of some sort. Sometimes I wonder if there are some folks on here that truly have DPD at all. My point is if it is chronic and not the result of some traumatic event in your life that you can associate it with, there is no RECOVERY. Its not going to just go away and you are going to be "normal" again. Spending hours and thousands of dollars talking about it with a shrink wont get rid of it, but it may teach you how to better live with it. The meds simply allow some of us to function better and have a higher quality of life. If I get off the Klonopin, I am right back where I was...for 20 effing years. Trust me I tried everything to try and "recover". Aint happening. This is how my brain works and I have to adapt and live with it.


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## My storm ran out of rain

aloof said:


> DPD is not well studied or understood. Difficult to recover from something that may very well be a perception related physiological dysfunction of some sort. Sometimes I wonder if there are some folks on here that truly have DPD at all. My point is if it is chronic and *not the result of some [b*]traumatic event in your life that you can associate it with, there is no RECOVERY[/b]. Its not going to just go away and you are going to be "normal" again. Spending hours and thousands of dollars talking about it with a shrink wont get rid of it, but it may teach you how to better live with it. The meds simply allow some of us to function better and have a higher quality of life. If I get off the Klonopin, I am right back where I was...for 20 effing years. Trust me I tried everything to try and "recover". Aint happening. This is how *my* brain works and I have to adapt and live with it.


I guess recovery is in some peoples future and not in some others. Everyone is different. Mine was caused by a traumatic event, so I guess, according to your theory, I can recover. If some people beleive that taking the Kpins is in their best interest, then I guess they should keep taking it. The only person who knows what oneself needs is oneself. So I guess the decision is ultimately up to the person who has that decision to make.


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## cbeck

I have used Kpin for 12.5 years of DP. Wished I woulda given it longer w/o but after 6-8 months of it I gave in. I will tell you that it for sure saved my life. I Started out at .5 I believe in the evening and it brought me out of my bed. Fast forward to 13 years later, I will tell you that I have been in tolerance withdrawl for quite along time and really started noticing it last spring. My teeth hurt, my ears ring, my muscles twitch, dp/dr is worse, insomnia, my anxiety comes in waves and all of this is at 1mg am 1mg pm. I am really at a crossroads on what to do. I have mixed feelings about the med. You will reach tolerance, that is a guarntee. If you gave it 20 years w/o it I don't blame ya for going on it, I woulda no doubt gave in way before. Everyone is different like you said. If I was a kid and just got dp on here, I would definitely give it time to see if you could come out of dp w/o benzos. It can be a double edged sword.


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## aloof

cbeck said:


> I have used Kpin for 12.5 years of DP. Wished I woulda given it longer w/o but after 6-8 months of it I gave in. I will tell you that it for sure saved my life. I Started out at .5 I believe in the evening and it brought me out of my bed. Fast forward to 13 years later, I will tell you that I have been in tolerance withdrawl for quite along time and really started noticing it last spring. My teeth hurt, my ears ring, my muscles twitch, dp/dr is worse, insomnia, my anxiety comes in waves and all of this is at 1mg am 1mg pm. I am really at a crossroads on what to do. I have mixed feelings about the med. You will reach tolerance, that is a guarntee. If you gave it 20 years w/o it I don't blame ya for going on it, I woulda no doubt gave in way before. Everyone is different like you said. If I was a kid and just got dp on here, I would definitely give it time to see if you could come out of dp w/o benzos. It can be a double edged sword.


It is a double edged sword, no doubt. I believe that to be the case with almost any medication you take though. Very few are completely safe with no short or long term side effects. Human waste would be a great fertilizer if only we ate what we were supposed to and did not take pharmaceuticals. Nothing natural about it.

As far as taking Klonopin, I am very cautious on dosage and I constantly go up and down on the dose. I break the tablets into quarters. I think you can avoid a lot of the tolerance issues if you keep the dose low or take none on some days, and when you have a bad few days or a week, you can take 1-2 mg, but then return back to the very low dose. Also I think it works best when taken with another med. For me its Trileptal, and little Neurontin on and off. A 2 mg per day dose for 12 years is pretty high actually...4 tabs a day. Its strong stuff.


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## cbeck

aloof said:


> It is a double edged sword, no doubt. I believe that to be the case with almost any medication you take though. Very few are completely safe with no short or long term side effects. Human waste would be a great fertilizer if only we ate what we were supposed to and did not take pharmaceuticals. Nothing natural about it.
> 
> As far as taking Klonopin, I am very cautious on dosage and I constantly go up and down on the dose. I break the tablets into quarters. I think you can avoid a lot of the tolerance issues if you keep the dose low or take none on some days, and when you have a bad few days or a week, you can take 1-2 mg, but then return back to the very low dose. Also I think it works best when taken with another med. For me its Trileptal, and little Neurontin on and off. A 2 mg per day dose for 12 years is pretty high actually...4 tabs a day. Its strong stuff.


I started at .5 in the first year. Problem is, you do hit tolerance. I dont care who you are.


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## AndyD

Blower, I feel your pain and know what your up against. Just know that it does get better in time and your symptoms and condition will start to improve the longer you are off. The problems you are having now are most def related to being on the benzos for that long. Yes, some of what you are going through may be your original condition returning but MOST of what you are going through is related to the benzos. The reason your DP is ten times worse than it ever was is also related to the benzos. You just need to be patient and give yourself time to heal. It's all about time. Try not to make any judgements about whether or not this is the "new you off benzos". You can't make any decisions about that kind of stuff until you've been off the benzos for a really long time. Only then can you decide what kind of DP, anxiety you may still have. You may be pleasantly surprised that you don't have much of anything when this is all done. Trust me I've seen this a million times before and have been through it myself. A lot of people get to this point and they think its "them" so they go right back on the benzos and this nonsense goes on for years and years and only gets worse. Right now your DP is through the roof, your anxiety is worse than ever and you got a million physical symptoms you never had in your entire life... Vibrations in head, tinnitus, insomnia, fatigue, muscle problems, migraines, etc. I know what u got cause I had all these symptoms and a hundred more. It's all the benzos and it goes away over a period of time. I do now how distressing this is and how unfunctional it can make you but you can get to the other side. I'm off benzos now for 13 months and while I still have some DP it is nowhere as near as bas as it was ON the benzos or directly after I came off. THe benzos worked for about 6 weeks, the other 9.8 years it was torture. I am still improving everyday being off and seeing these protracted symptoms go away. It may be worse before it gets better but if your off long enough you will see these things go away as your brain heals and rebalnces itself. I have a feeling you will be better than you ever were before you even started the benzos. I am really seeing the benefits of being off now and really feel that I have the potential to continue to get well and beat the DP entirely. Something that would have been impossible if I continued on benzos. Don't ever settle and don't let anyone tell you you can't beat the DP because you just might be able to do it. But my opinion is you won't get rid of it staying on benzos for another 18 months. PM me anytime and keep us updated on your progress. Hang in there.


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## Guest

Absolutely agree with Cbeck, you will hit a tolerance, at some point, I have, he has, but for some people staying on is safer than coming off at this point.


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## Blower

JG10 said:


> Absolutely agree with Cbeck, you will hit a tolerance, at some point, I have, he has, but for some people staying on is safer than coming off at this point.


What do you mean safer?


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## Guest

In my case, the benzos are still working, I've been on them for 6 years, and at a higher dose than the norm, Coming off would be very difficult, not impossible, but very hard, and even if I just miss a dose I have horrid rebound anxiety and depersonalization. I mean, there is a reason I went on them in the first place. I feel its about quality not quantity, a lot of people will disagree, but honestly, live your life the best way you can, if they help they help. That's all I really can say about it. There's so much of a debate on how bad they are, or how helpful they are,there are people out there on 10mg of klonopin a day leading normal lives. Just saying, none of us on here are doctors, we're all going by personal experiences, which are obviously different for each of us.


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## Blower

Gents I need to make some decisions. I got DP/DR in 2008 for the second time in my life. First when I was 20 which cleared up totally and lightening struck again when I was in my late 40's. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depersonalisation as a symptom. I was put on ativan 1mg / day and all symptoms went. I was kept on this for 24 months and the Doc said he wanted me to stop as things were OK. Through this 24 m period I had no symptoms and did not have to increase the dose. When I started to reduce the dose bang straight back into DP land the reduction was almost a CT as he knew no better. He then crossed me over to 15mg V and I started a very slow taper. Got to 5mg and everything was back including very bad Tinnitus and head buzzing. I became totally disfunctional and had to quit my job as the anxiety from the re emergence of DP and Tinnitus was just too much for me. I have continued to slowly taper but things have just got worse. The DP/DR is crippling I've lost interest in everything am apathetic and agoraphobic. What do I do? increase the Benzo again and hope things clear up so I get some form of life back, or sit out another n months of Taper + months of withdrawal, hope that this is all withdrawal from long term use or what. I am currently driving myself mad. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Blower


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## Guest

Blower said:


> Gents I need to make some decisions. I got DP/DR in 2008 for the second time in my life. First when I was 20 which cleared up totally and lightening struck again when I was in my late 40's. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depersonalisation as a symptom. I was put on ativan 1mg / day and all symptoms went. I was kept on this for 24 months and the Doc said he wanted me to stop as things were OK. Through this 24 m period I had no symptoms and did not have to increase the dose. When I started to reduce the dose bang straight back into DP land the reduction was almost a CT as he knew no better. He then crossed me over to 15mg V and I started a very slow taper. Got to 5mg and everything was back including very bad Tinnitus and head buzzing. I became totally disfunctional and had to quit my job as the anxiety from the re emergence of DP and Tinnitus was just too much for me. I have continued to slowly taper but things have just got worse. The DP/DR is crippling I've lost interest in everything am apathetic and agoraphobic. What do I do? increase the Benzo again and hope things clear up so I get some form of life back, or sit out another n months of Taper + months of withdrawal, hope that this is all withdrawal from long term use or what. I am currently driving myself mad. Suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Blower


People are going to disagree with me but I really don't care. What do YOU want to do? Sit in your house and widdle away, which I dont care what anyone says, will kill you faster than any benzo, Or, go back on and get some sort of life back. You are twice my age, and I have been on benzos for longer than you, unfortunately yes they do have long term effects, but with this bitch of a diagnosis we have here, and those being the only real medicine besides the random supplement here and there, that have helped DP/DR, Why not take them if they make life liveable again? I'm not going to tell you to go one way or the other but imo its quality not quantity. You can be 100 years old, but whats the point if you're unahppy??


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## Guest

also I noticed you are from the UK, be aware that in the UK Benzos=The Devil. In the states they are not looked at nearly as bad. Just FYI


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## Blower

Thanks for your views JG10


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