# Doctors who treat depersonalization in the EU?



## teal (Oct 9, 2019)

Are there any doctors in Europe who specialize on DPD who we can go to? Prescriptions are for the most part valid within the whole EU, so where someone works makes little difference. The very best is naturally to be in the care of someone who knows what they are doing, but in the lack of that, the second best would be like a random doctor in Romania who would gladly help in exchange for well money. I want to try Lamictal. There's a chance my GP or a few other doctors I know could help me out, but I would really prefer easier solutions.

On the lack of specialists on DPD:



Mayer-Gross said:


> No, there are in reality no "Depersonalisation research Unit"anymore. Their latest publication was in 2016 and likely written in 2015. Anthony David is at another university, so is E. Hunter, Nick Medford, M. Sierra. I asked them for a private consultation with a employed in 2004 and was told that they only took patient under the NHS scheme. You have to go to a psychiatrist to get such prescriptions. A normal GB would not give to most people.


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## curiousmind (Oct 31, 2019)

Dr. Blazsek Péter [link] from Alpha Egeszségközpont in Budapest treats DPD specifically with the "Sierra Method" as mentioned on the website. Allegedly some people who go to him have recovered with the administration of the ssri+lamo combo. Dr. BP has quite an impressive resumé, he was trained in London, consults patients in English, but nevertheless is not by any means a "specialist" in DPD.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

As depersonalisation is highly undiagnosed and besides that also very difficult to treat it is almost impossible to find a psychiatrist that knows about the disorder and who specialises in it. Another problem is that in many countries in Europe most private psychrists work under a agreement with the public system. They are paid by the state and you can only get a referral to them though a GP. I is a problem here in Denmark where i wanted to have some CBT session in relation to depersonalisation. Those with a public agreement with the state do not have time for that and have to have a flow of 2-4.patients pr hour. So, you have to go to a psychiatrist that works only with CBT and do not work under an agreement with the public health system and pay them. That is around 150.euros pr hour.

You have to make a synopsis of all publications done on that combination and ask a psychiatrist in your country to give you a prescription for that. That is the only way around that.


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## teal (Oct 9, 2019)

Mayer-Gross said:


> As depersonalisation is highly undiagnosed and besides that also very difficult to treat it is almost impossible to find a psychiatrist that knows about the disorder and who specialises in it. Another problem is that in many countries in Europe most private psychrists work under a agreement with the public system. They are paid by the state and you can only get a referral to them though a GP. I is a problem here in Denmark where i wanted to have some CBT session in relation to depersonalisation. Those with a public agreement with the state do not have time for that and have to have a flow of 2-4.patients pr hour. So, you have to go to a psychiatrist that works only with CBT and do not work under an agreement with the public health system and pay them. That is around 150.euros pr hour.
> 
> You have to make a synopsis of all publications done on that combination and ask a psychiatrist in your country to give you a prescription for that. That is the only way around that.


With regards to CBT and such, that is on my to-do list. But I plan to avoid the health care system and do it on something like Talkspace.

With regards to Lamictal and other non-scheduled substances, I suppose online pharmacies would also be an option. I have bought a lot online before, but alas, the old place I used to shop, pharmacyescrow, is closed. A random Romanian doctor would actually be a lot better.

But yeah, a synopsis and working with someone is prolly a way to go. I just asked my GP about clonazepam, with rather weak arguments, but would rather not push it when I got a no.

@curiousmind. Much appreciated!


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## Psyborg (Dec 23, 2018)

here in Mainz (Germany) there is a doc (even a hospital I think) who does


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## teal (Oct 9, 2019)

@Psyborg. Appreciated! Could you PM me the name?


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

His name is Matthis Michael and it is 100% that you have to be a german citizen to see him. His profile in researchgate is here.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Matthias_Michal

University profile here; http://www.unimedizin-mainz.de/psychosomatik/patienten/poliklinik-und-ambulanzen/sprechstunde-depersonalisation.html

I know a german who got DP a year ago who have seen him. Not much he could do.

He claims that mindfullness and HRV biofeedback can affect the state but research at Kings College has found that the physiological abnormalities found i DP do not have a origin in the CNS -comes from the CNS to the brain. It is likely the other way around -from the brain to the CNS in DP or what is called "fronto-vagal network"

https://www.brainstimjrnl.com/article/S1935-861X(19)30413-9/fulltext

Remember that there in general in a replication crisis in medicin of 50%. So, at least 50% of clams cannot be replicated. This goes for research into depersonalisation too. Many interventions and studies can not be replicated. The naloxone study is one of them, that lamictal can block the dissociative effect of ketamine is likely another. That HRV biofeedback and mindfulness can change the emotional regulation in the frontal cortex is another.


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## curiousmind (Oct 31, 2019)

Mayer-Gross said:


> Remember that there in general in a replication crisis in medicin of 50%. So, at least 50% of clams cannot be replicated. This goes for research into depersonalisation too. Many interventions and studies can not be replicated. The naloxone study is one of them, that lamictal can block the dissociative effect of ketamine is likely another. That HRV biofeedback and mindfulness can change the emotional regulation in the frontal cortex is another.


True, it is better to be cautious when interpreting these studies, a critical mindset is an important quality to behold, however it would be a stretch to claim without further evidence that all of these studies lack reputability. The naloxone one has indeed proven to be non-replicable, and the lamictal trial is questionable too, but actually large trials haven't been conducted so it is hard to say.

The mere fact that there is a "replication crisis" in the sciences (not just medical, but basically in all) does not in and of itself say anything about the merit of individual studies that have not been attempted to be replicated yet. After all, most studies in DPD have not been tried to be replicated, so we actually do not know whether or not they can be replicated de facto.

The 50% figure that characterises the replication crisis in the medical sciences was calculated by incorporating cases where studies were conducted, those studies made said claim, and then later studies proved that they could not replicate the former studies in a way that would yield the same conclusion as the original study. So, they found that approximately 50% of the studies that were conducted in the medical science failed to be replicated if and when they were attempted to be replicated.

So... my point is that it isnt constructive to assume that all studies that have not been attempted to be replicated yet are non-replicable. We have to work with what we got, and we should appreciate the merit (if and when they have any) of the existing studies for this disorder, even if there is the potential that it is non-replicable, unless of course if they really did fail to be replicated (and even then, the failure to replicate should also be tested and proven).

In some sense the French Trial will be the most reputable one thus far because of the large sample size and due to the double-blind nature, but even then it will be a sole trial that will not be replicated anytime soon after its release. The same can be said about the other rTMS trials, the study regarding the rVLPC and the TPJ have also not been replicated.


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## teal (Oct 9, 2019)

Appreciated, Mayer-Gross! My health is poor, so I am slow to respond.



> the physiological abnormalities found i DP do not have a origin in the CNS -comes from the CNS to the brain. It is likely the other way around -from the brain to the CNS in DP or what is called "fronto-vagal network"


Amen! Early on I was put on beta blockers, as the doctor thought that if my heart rate problems would subside, my cognitive symptoms could subside. I never believed it would have any sort of effect, but went with it thinking I'd at least have nothing to lose.


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## James_80 (Feb 27, 2016)

teal said:


> Appreciated, Mayer-Gross! My health is poor, so I am slow to respond.
> 
> Amen! Early on I was put on beta blockers, as the doctor thought that if my heart rate problems would subside, my cognitive symptoms could subside. I never believed it would have any sort of effect, but went with it thinking I'd at least have nothing to lose.


It's almost like dp has enabled a disconnect between the brain and the CNS.


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## DPCat (Feb 11, 2020)

teal said:


> Appreciated, Mayer-Gross! My health is poor, so I am slow to respond.
> 
> Amen! Early on I was put on beta blockers, as the doctor thought that if my heart rate problems would subside, my cognitive symptoms could subside. I never believed it would have any sort of effect, but went with it thinking I'd at least have nothing to lose.


Did the Beta Blockers have any effect on your DPDR?


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## teal (Oct 9, 2019)

@James_80. Yeah. One model of mine, is that my fight-or-flight-or-*freeze* response has gone haywire and is permanently stuck on. Heart racing. Dead feelings. I get better by running, I get better by lying down. Both are actions you do to escape danger.

@DPCat. None whatsoever. I know some with POTS actually feel worse on beta blockers. I got no effect from it, besides a heart that didn't beat so fast, which never has bothered me anyhow.

My health is poor, hence the late reply.


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

IMO, a p doc who knows DP and is very open to trialing meds is as good as any.

I've a private one in the UK, it's not cheap, but they seem open to writing private scripts and to your GP to trial medications, i think i've tried 25, i can list them. I've had p doc's who wouldn't try anything but an AD and were not interested, so getting an open one who understands i think who keeps up with what people are trying and willing to read your research is key.

For me beta blockers help, not the mental side, but stop anxiety going to panic attacks..


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## DPCat (Feb 11, 2020)

WreckingHotelRooms said:


> IMO, a p doc who knows DP and is very open to trialing meds is as good as any.
> 
> I've a private one in the UK, it's not cheap, but they seem open to writing private scripts and to your GP to trial medications, i think i've tried 25, i can list them. I've had p doc's who wouldn't try anything but an AD and were not interested, so getting an open one who understands i think who keeps up with what people are trying and willing to read your research is key.
> 
> For me beta blockers help, not the mental side, but stop anxiety going to panic attacks..


Have you had any issues with vertigo or dizziness in your past?


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