# Me refuting Solipsism. Here ya go!



## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

This was actually going to be a reply to a recent post by* thedarkknight*, but I figured more people might be able to use this. I'm new... although I've ended up on this site a lot after obsessive googling... which I'm sure a lot of us do -- so HI!

This whole thought of solipsism got into my head a couple weeks ago, on a Monday... as a result of a nervous breakdown over unrelated stress. Suddenly my thoughts went from "crap, there goes another tire!" to "WHAT IF I'M THE ONLY THING ALIVE".... go figure.

Anyways, sure, you can not refute solipsism....to a solipsist, that is. But sit down, grab a piece of paper, and fold it in half. On one side, write "Evidence supporting Solipsism", on the other side, "Evidence against Solipsism". See how much evidence you can put against it... there's LOTS.

You'll start to notice that EVERYTHING around you is evidence that solipsism is false, and that the fact that you 'cannot refute it' is actually what refutes it in itself.... check it out:

- You cannot predict the thoughts or actions of others, unless you get the time to get to know them and understand them quite closely. Otherwise, if you are right in predicting, it's merely coincidence... or you'd probably be making big bucks right now somehow. Your on this forum, too, looking for help from others... if solipsism were real, you wouldn't need to do this.

- If you did create everything and just stuck yourself in the middle of it "to keep from being bored" (as a lot of people say they think), I'm pretty sure you would create a way for you to never worry about this... considering worrying is a negative feeling just as much as being bored is, and as a solipsist, you would have created this world to prevent that negative feeling of being bored.... so I'm pretty sure you'd create a way to prevent the negative feeling of worry as well.

- Going off of that, you have your own personality as well. If you can look around right now and realize that there are, maybe not things that you DISLIKE exactly, but if you can look around and say about anything "this is really not the way I would have created the world..." can you really say you did create it? If you were the creator, things would be your way.... afterall, you created it. Like I said, if you created the world and put yourself in it "just so you wouldn't get bored", that was to cater to yourself via entertainment. Since your reason for creating this world would be entertainment, you'd create it in a way that would be entertaining to you... not destructive and painful....which your anxiety about this is MAJOR pain. It just doesn't make sense that if you created all of this, you would be having these worries....period.

- Also - this world, if you look up all the specifics of it... is an amazing place. I mean, everything is perfect. If it were even a little bit off, Earth would be inhabitable. Someone HAS to maintain that, which means there is a creator. Obviously that would be a huge job, and assuming that was your job (as the creator) you wouldn't even have a single bit of TIME to worry about being a solipsist. (This probably gives way to religious thoughts... but I could find comfort in that.) This would then have you assume that there is someone or something else that created this, which created you, which created everyone else. If you have no knowledge of how the world was created, and no way to step back and make sure the earth is still stable in its location in the universe so it doesn't burn up -- but it has to be done -- who's doing it? it can't be you, which means there is someone ELSE there.. otherwise, this world probably would have gone to crap years ago when you decided to birth yourself as a human. And if there's someone else there creating everything and maintaining everything, it makes sense then to assume that you are a creation, as well as the rest of us on this planet are exactly the same... which means you're not alone, and you are just as real as everything else is, and everything else is real.

- Literally, all you are going off of right now is the fact that you cannot refute it. It's NOT like there's a ton of evidence to support it...at all, infact going back to folding that paper in half, much more evidence shoots that theory DOWN. Just because you can't 100% prove something false doesn't mean it's true. If there were a million pieces of evidence suggesting that your friend liked the color blue the most out of ANY color (he wears it all the time, his house, car, phone, etc. are all blue... etc etc) but you suddenly realize there are other colors he could like more, like red, and you can't be 100% certain that he likes blue more than red despite all the evidence... does that mean you're going to jump to a conclusion that red is his favorite color just because you can never read his mind and be 100% certain?? Of course not... because this isn't something that makes you scared or anxious, so you just let it go, and say to yourself "duh, there's no way. look at all of this evidence... then you don't give it another thought. Your anxious thoughts... obsessive thoughts, whatever you want to call them, are keeping you from realizing that everywhere you look, every person you talk to, every worry you even have about this actually is proof that solipsism isn't real. Anxiety makes you INCREDIBLY biased... VERY negative. This is what's causing you to go "screw ALL the evidence that's in front of me all day long every single day, I'm going to jump to the most negative conclusion!". It's seriously just your anxiety.

- Also - the fact that we cannot read others minds and know everything IS proof that solipsism isn't real itself. The very fact that its irrefutable IS the proof that solipsism is not real. Because the only way to 'prove' that it isn't real is to make it real... but we cannot do that, meaning solipsism is impossible. IF it were refutable, that would mean that we could jump into other peoples' minds and prove to ourselves that they are functioning individually -- but then at that point, we become omniscient, which makes solipsism true.

- The fact that we cannot switch to solipsism briefly just to prove that it is not real proves this.... we don't have that ability. If solipsism were real, and we did create all of this, we would have that ability.... to sit back and 'manage' just like in a game like The Sims. (Also - why would we create a world that a bunch of people are pretty much destroying... and put ourselves in the body of someone who pretty much can't do anything about it. That makes no sense.)

Basically, let me put it this way. We have just concluded that the only way for solipsism to be proved right or wrong is to use solipsism (as an omniscient view to make sure other's minds work individually).... but none of us can do that. So, if solipsism is required to prove solipsism right or wrong, and no matter how hard we try, for hundreds of years we have never been able to prove it right or wrong because essentially none of us are solipsists (or the creator)....that means that solipsism must not exist. Also, if we left this to someone else to prove, and they could somehow jump into the minds of others and prove that it is possible to do such a thing, it still wouldn't be solipsism because we'd all still be here with our own individual consciousnesses.

SO therefore, solipsism doesn't exist. (Unless you're a sort of God -- which then you would have all knowing power, so this still isn't true... and then that just leaves the fact that if this God was a solipsist, we were all his creation, so that just leaves the fact that you're not alone.... you're one of someone else's creations along with billions of other people... which are all just as conscious as you are (and even larger numbers of species on earth).

Again - you need solipsism to prove/disprove solipsism... it has been concluded that seeing into the minds of others would be the only way to ever conclude such a thing, which is why its irrefutable. Solipsism is irrefutable because its required to refute it, and it doesn't exist.

Phew. I could probably come up with a million ways to reword that, but that's it. Solipsism's 'irrefutability' actually refutes Solipsism.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

YES. I definitely had severe anxiety. Big time. Loneliness, depression -- unable to experience joy in anything, panic attacks, periods of anorexia (I've dropped about 9 pounds... which is a result of this and some stress related stomach stuff I had going on right before).

I mean, I had absolute desperation for answers. I couldn't focus on anything else. I cried, wanted to throw up, stopped eating and drinking water for periods of time... Yes. Definitely.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

basically everything I wrote about up there is how I thought my way out of it  I feel like I'm okay now.


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## Hosscat (Oct 23, 2012)

That could work unless you have the obsessive compulsive habit of thinking. Likely then you will need to use erp or the 4 step method to get better. As someone with 'pure o' I can say I know that the most rational arguments are true, but it doesn't stop me from doubting. Here is what someone told me that made a lot of sense.:

More to the point, it already seems unlikely your fear is true, but
you give it the amount of attention that you would give something that is
VERY likely. That's why you get stuck. We often wait for feelings and
thoughts to come around before we change behavior and this unfortunately
does not work. If instead you start by changing your behavior, despite the
thoughts and feelings, they will catch up.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

trust me, I had the obsessive, irrational, endless thinking/panicking. this is just the answer that I found that makes me feel like I can finally close the case and stop obsessing over it. Idk, I figured it might help a few people out.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

Also - since I guess this kinda answers how I'm 'recovering', a combination of an omega-3 supplement and and inositol supplement seems to be working quite well for me.


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## OvercomeTheAnxietyDP/DR (May 8, 2013)

Great read, this make sense, but one thing, when we are dreaming,we can't read other peoples mind, how would we still know? And example, the game GTA, we can't read the AI minds inside the game, they mirror real life, but we can't jump into their mind, how do you know one is the real protagonist in a highly advanced like video game, that you think it's real, but not, how do you know it's not? I'm sorry, but I let my solipsism thought manifest, vanilla sky movie made me question my reality, I hate watching it to this day, but solipsism was the ultimate kick when I recovered from the vanilla sky syndrome ..... Please respond.. Here are one good refute I came up with "Solipsism is nothing more but a human fantasy, you can fantasize all you want that you're the only human bean in this universe, but you are not, just like you can fantasize pigs fly, or dogs driving a car, or dragons still exist" it's nothing more


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

I mean, essentially you could have a dream where you can control minds or have mind reading powers... maybe you just haven't had one like that before... in fact a lot of dream dictionary sites bring this up, so there are many people that probably have that.

Also, with video games... the programmer is the one who creates those AI's, so he is the one who knows what they would do in certain situations because he programmed them this way... no game has characters that ACTUALLY have free will. They can't turn against you and shut the whole game off because they're tired of playing... that would require consciousness.

So - in real life you are the creator, which would mean you could predict everyone's actions because essentially you planned them out, and you would know how everything works (like the programmer or the team of programmers for the video game)... which you do not, and can not. Otherwise, someone ELSE is the creator and they would be the 'solipsist'... but you know this isn't possible, because this would mean that it's impossible for you to be conscious.... yet you are.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

And I guess the other question is, if someone else did create this and made you the only conscious person when everyone else on the planet is artificial, why would there be other people who are questioning their consciousness/existence? seems to me like the other people who are around you questioning the same things about 'how did we get here?' 'are we really here?' are other pieces of proof.... in fact, everyone comes across these questions eventually, some just tune into it more than others, and some get really terrified about it (which is why a lot of us are on here). If people were just programmed to put on a play and make a scene for one consciousness to live in, they wouldn't be questioning anything about it. They would just know they are there, and that's it. Period.

The most logical thing is to assume that yes, there could be a creator, but he created all of us and gave us all individual consciousnesses. And we're all here asking the same questions, because none of us know the answers.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

Basically ... to question consciousness and existence requires consciousness and existence. If other people are questioning it, they have consciousness and existence, too. They have the ability to create their own ideas. Just like in video games, where the Sims say the same phrases all the time, and react to events with reactions that are in the same set of 9 or 10 reactions, there would be a limit to how many different ideas, reactions, stories, phrases, etc. there would be on this planet.... and there's not.

Not to mention, that would be some INSANE game you'd be playing in, because there are infinite ideas created by all the separate minds and consciousnesses on this planet. It would take something absolutely BRILLIANT and all-knowing to create that.. and it would be easier to create by creating multiple minds and consciousnesses that can create those ideas for the creator, so he wouldn't have to... hence why all of us are here as individuals.

Plus - why would you be selected to play in this game? I often thought to myself when I was panicking about this, how it would be SO much more realistic (those solipsism ideas) if I were in a position of high power, or if I had a lot of money or influence or something... then it would make more sense and make me panic more. But, what an uninteresting character I would be in a giant game like this... I have hardly any hobbies, I have no special abilities... etc. Plus, with all the huge events this 'game' has to offer, good and bad, like getting famous, wars, politics, ambitions, etc, I'm not planning on or anywhere near getting involved in anything huge like that, so it seems more like I'd be an AI person.... someone whos just there to keep the story going for YOU in YOUR game ....except I'm fully conscious.


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## miabella (Jun 19, 2013)

I think the thing that keeps obsessive thoughts flowing is the idea that you understand that everyone is here and reality is here, you just can't explain WHY we are all here. And people with OCD often have an extremely hard time accepting uncertainty.

I guess that's where I found my 'recovery point'. As long as I know I'm not alone -- which honestly after thinking all of this through, I know I am not -- I'm okay with that, because that was the scariest part for me -- being alone. I'm able to accept the uncertainty of the rest, which was made easier to accept by knowing that others have the same unanswered questions. Where I go after I die, where I was before this, matters less to me now just because I know others are wondering the same things, and we all end up going through the same things at the end, just like we do in the beginning and through the duration of life.


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## OvercomeTheAnxietyDP/DR (May 8, 2013)

THIS MAKE SENSE, AND SORRY FOR THE CAPS, MY COMPUTER IS ACTING UP, BUT I THINK I CAN RECOVER, THIS YEAR SO FAR HAS BEEN THE ABSOLUTE WORSE YEAR OF MY LIFE, IT HAS BEEN HELL, IT HAS BEEN TORTURE, I NEVER EXPERIENCED SO MUCH HOPELESSNESS AND DESPAIR LIKE THIS IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, AND HOPEFULLY I CAN PUT THESE THOUGHTS TOO BED FOREVER, HOPEFULLY I CAN BE CAREFREE LIKE I WAS WHEN I WAS 16 OR 80% CURED IN 2009/10 OR EVEN 77% IN 2008 .. BUT I'M PUSHING FOR A FULL RECOVERY, I WANT THE 2006 FEELING BACK.. ANYWAY I BE PUSHING FOR IT, IT WILL HARD, BUT I CAN DO IT, IN THE PAST, I FEEL I WAS ACTUALLY PUSHING FOR SIXTY PERCENT RECOVERY, I THOUGHT I WAS NEARLY CURED IN 09 BUT I GUESS IT WAS REALLY EIGHTY PERCENT RECOVERY SINCE I PANIC EASILY WHEN THE MOVIE INCEPTION CAME OUT, OR WHEN I HEARD A GUY ON AN ALIEN VIDEO SAY "WE ALL CAN BE DREAMING" OR SO FORTH. I WILL PUSH FOR A HOME RUN, A RECOVERY FOREVER


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## Rahkashu (Apr 2, 2014)

miabella said:


> This was actually going to be a reply to a recent post by* thedarkknight*, but I figured more people might be able to use this. I'm new... although I've ended up on this site a lot after obsessive googling... which I'm sure a lot of us do -- so HI!
> 
> This whole thought of solipsism got into my head a couple weeks ago, on a Monday... as a result of a nervous breakdown over unrelated stress. Suddenly my thoughts went from "crap, there goes another tire!" to "WHAT IF I'M THE ONLY THING ALIVE".... go figure.
> 
> ...


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

miabella said:


> This was actually going to be a reply to a recent post by* thedarkknight*, but I figured more people might be able to use this. I'm new... although I've ended up on this site a lot after obsessive googling... which I'm sure a lot of us do -- so HI!
> 
> This whole thought of solipsism got into my head a couple weeks ago, on a Monday... as a result of a nervous breakdown over unrelated stress. Suddenly my thoughts went from "crap, there goes another tire!" to "WHAT IF I'M THE ONLY THING ALIVE".... go figure.
> 
> ...


Solipsism doesn't mean you are necessarily the God. It means the whole life in front of your eyes is an illusion, simulation and only your mind is real.


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## Surfer Rosa (Nov 27, 2015)

https://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy/axioms/axioms/node43.html


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## meekah (Sep 28, 2015)

great to here you used your mind the right way. great job


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