# now they go too far!!



## sleepingbeauty

the world really will go to hell if people keep taking the word of god literally. :roll:

http://www.sexinchrist.com/submission.html


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## agentcooper

that's so creepy! there are some real nuts out there....


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## MrMortgage

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, 23 for the husband is head of the wife as also Christ is head of the church. He is the Savior of the body. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as also Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 to make her holy, cleansing her in the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)

Well the word of God is offensive. The truth is....women should submit to their husbands. The man is the head of the house, and that is how its been for the past 7,000 years. Just recently, and when I say recently I mean the past 100 years women have started to fight for their "rights".

Just think about it for awhile...if you want to get scientific about it, in the animal kingdom the "male" animals are king, the head, the boss. That's just how it is.

Why should it be different with humans. After all the only other beings we have to compare ourselves to are animals.

I'm not saying women cannot be leaders, or that women are slaves but, they are not dominate.

We must drop the pride issue and just play are "God" given roles to get through this life. The world has been going "fine" for the past 7,000 years with men being boss, and there is no reason why this should change.

This is just the way it is....


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## MrMortgage

This link doesnt freak me out or gross me out in anyway. A lot of Christians are "hush, hush" with bedroom activities because the church has made them to be that way.

Gods says, what you do in the bedroom with your wife is your buisness.

This website is basically showing Christians this.


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## Dreamer

> Just think about it for awhile...if you want to get scientific about it, in the animal kingdom the "male" animals are king, the head, the boss. That's just how it is.


Holy Mackeral Mortgage!

I can't tell if you're being serious here or not. Yes, I tend towards the scientific and re: the animal kingdom this is NOT the case, I believe the lioness is abandoned by the father of her children off the bat and takes care of them on her own.

Also, if you haven't see the film "Penguins", about the responsibilities of both male and female penguin in raising children, just for starters.

Yes, there are biological bases for a lot of societal/cultural "laws", but this is a tad extreme. Sort of :shock:

I'm no feminist, but I believe the most important job someone can do is be a mother -- the most underrated job, and it is a 36 hour a day job.

I could write a treatise on this, but what's the point.

And yeah, I find that site rather creepy. I'd say it is again an extreme interpretation. I know plenty of very religious people who'd be disgusted by your POV.

Ah, I'm reading Jimmy Carter's new book ... "Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis". Carter is a very religious man, a Southern Baptist for crying out loud. He bemoans the extremes of the Moral Right.

I'm sorry to say this Mr. M ... but you gotta' get caught up with the times here.

Just IMHO. YIKES. :shock:

And if I'm not mistaken, the Black Widow devours her husband after he impregnates her. Just a lady in charge! 8)

:shock: D!


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## Dreamer

PS, isn't to say I don't find a good bit of sound advice in the Bible, but there is a good bit that I find obviously antiquated -- serving a culture and time that no longer exists. There are also, myths, legends, etc. which serve as lessons, or as reminders re: how to maintain societal stability.

Also, I have no problem with what anyone does in the bedroom as long as it is consensual, not pedophilia/rape, etc. and no one gets hurt -- NO ONE. Also it is my understanding that men today find it a turn on if the woman takes over in the boudoir ... just something I um have heard about. 8)

Well, I just don't know what to say, so I'll shut up, LOL. :shock:


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## Guest

MrMortgage said:


> 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands as to the Lord, 23 for the husband is head of the wife as also Christ is head of the church. He is the Savior of the body. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as also Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 to make her holy, cleansing her in the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)
> 
> Well the word of God is offensive. The truth is....women should submit to their husbands. The man is the head of the house, and that is how its been for the past 7,000 years. Just recently, and when I say recently I mean the past 100 years women have started to fight for their "rights".
> 
> Just think about it for awhile...if you want to get scientific about it, in the animal kingdom the "male" animals are king, the head, the boss. That's just how it is.
> 
> Why should it be different with humans. After all the only other beings we have to compare ourselves to are animals.
> 
> I'm not saying women cannot be leaders, or that women are slaves but, they are not dominate.
> 
> We must drop the pride issue and just play are "God" given roles to get through this life. The world has been going "fine" for the past 7,000 years with men being boss, and there is no reason why this should change.
> 
> This is just the way it is....


I won't even begin to pick apart all the ignorant and arrogant opinions you've expressed here.
You think you're headed for heaven? You are so like the selfish, ignorant suicide bombers of 9/11, pretending man-written words are the words of a higher being and using them to hurt and suppress other human beings.
Go ahead, delude yourself, I think you're small and pathetic.


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## agentcooper

mr. mortgage, you are part of the reason organized religion and the bible have such a bad name amongst many of us. i think it is just horrible that people believe things like that...come on! to say that the world has been just fine for 7 thousand years with man ruling is not only a terrible thing to say, but it's also false. many old civilizations had women rulers and those civilizations were "just fine" as well...in fact, there was much less war when women ruled.


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## Dreamer

agentcooper said:


> mr. mortgage, you are part of the reason organized religion and the bible have such a bad name amongst many of us. i think it is just horrible that people believe things like that...come on! to say that the world has been just fine for 7 thousand years with man ruling is not only a terrible thing to say, but it's also false. many old civilizations had women rulers and those civilizations were "just fine" as well...in fact, there was much less war when women ruled.


What she said, far more succinctly than I,

And here's a sampling of famous female world leaders, just go to Google and plug in women world leaders, etc. This doesn't even include women who have contributed to the Arts and Sciences, etc., etc. -- writers, researchers, doctors, scientists!!!!!!...................

I found a great link to female political world leaders past and 
present, I don't think it will post properly so I have a few great 
ones and then a link to the list....

*You have to look back more than 100 years!!!!!!*

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0801534.html

Of course:
*Isobel "Evita" Peron*, Argentina 1974-1976
How could you forget, "Don't cry for me Argentina?"

*Empress Theodora Byzantium/Roman Empire, 1055-1066*

*Queen Nefertiti Egypt, 1372-1350 BC* < --- did you notice BC?

*Too many Queens of Great Britain to list.....*

*Margaret Thatcher, Priminister of England 1979-1990*

*Indira Ghandi, Priminister of India 1966-1977, 1980-1984*

*Golda Meir, Primeminister of Israel 1969-1974*

*The Japanese have too many Empresses to list going back to 593, yes 593*

These aren't folks to be taken lightly. Intellegent, well respected by both men and women......

Sigh, there's *too* much information to refute what you've said.......! And you are consciously ignoring it. I don't have the patience to cite the information for you Mr. M. :evil:


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## Guest

http://www.sexinchrist.com/masturbation.html

I don't even bother to read these religious debates anymore, but I did happen to scroll through the page SB posted and took solace in the fact that I will not go to hell for masturbating.


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## Scattered

Jerkin for Jesus.


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## Guest

sleepingbeauty -
I don't get it. Are you trying to be sacriligous? That's got to be one of the weirdest articles I've read on Christian sexuality. Persoanlly, I think if the Bible says anythign about sex, its pretty vague and confusing (frankly the entire Bible is) or its that it is good (ever read Song of Solomon? Now there's some Bible porn! Isn't it funny that we NEVER read this book of the Bible in church/home/school? In fact it was kind of a 'taboo' book in most adults' eyes).

- Seth


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## MrMortgage

The way you guys react to what I posted tells me that the world today is following the worlds system not Gods system.

I never said women cant be leaders. I never said that its okay to rape and beat women.

I can tell this is a sensative topic for girls because mostly girls are against what I said, and on top of that they blow what I said out of proportion.

The worlds plan has become more accepted then the word of God, the way some of you have responded to my posts proves this.

I didnt know I was on the same level as terrorist now...

Oh and dreamer, give me about 100 more examples of women being dominate in the animal kingdom, you still have about a million other species to go.

The truth is males are the dominate ones in the animal kingdom, and males are the head of the family in a human relationship.

Its lame that I'm getting stereo typed by some of you folks, the only point I was trying to make is that we have to know where we stand, and it may be hard to accept, but its the truth. :wink:


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## Guest

You turn me on Mr. Mortgage with all your knowledge and omnipotence.


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## MrMortgage

SethEaston said:


> sleepingbeauty -
> Isn't it funny that we NEVER read this book of the Bible in church/home/school? In fact it was kind of a 'taboo' book in most adults' eyes).
> 
> - Seth


Ya that's a good point man, I dont really follow mainstream preachers, because they are too afraid of offending people and WOMEN!

Lets go down the line here...common misunderstanding about God.

God does hate things and certain people!

God does get pissed off and kills! (its not always the devil, you think God has to hire satan as a hitman?)

God does judge!

God gets jealous!

When is the last time you heard this being preached in a church that is on TV, you wont because then people will stop watching!

Gods also loves and cares, and all that good stuff, but it gets talked about too much, dont be a "biter" bite a taste and leave the rest.


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## MrMortgage

OH and I want to make a point about what dreamer said earlier, I never said women dont work hard, and that men replace women as being a mother.

I hit a real sensitive topic with dreamer, that's why she said that.

God made women for a reason, and when a man and a women get together its an amazing thing how they become one. Yada Yada Yada

But lets get the order staight, God, Jesus, Man, Women. If you cant accept that, then......


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## MrMortgage

I know I may be a little extreme about certain things, but give me a break, the church has gotten so extreme the other way, I can afford to be extreme the other way to get it back in line. 8)

Check out Dr. Gene Scott, that guy was great, he told it like it was, and was on TV and TBN never had em' on because he was telling the truth!


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## Milan

Mr Mortgage, just a work of advice. STOP! - Your beginning to lose all cred with your rants (and you will lose your female fan club to boot).

Seriously dude, your just conditioned by another 'Christian' doctrine and I should know speaking as an ex Catholic who use to go to church multiple times a week when I was 12! And as for who is the dominant sex, well, all I can say is simply check out most family house holds and see for yourself who is in control of the house (guys at work always refer to the their partners as the boss). Yes - we are mammals but comparing us to the animal kingdom just doesn't cut the mustard in my books. With homosapiens it's knowledge that dominates.

No hard feelings


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## MrMortgage

I have a female fan base?


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## MrMortgage

I just used the animal kingdom thing to shut up the people that were going to try to get scientific.

Well I guess the wife wears the pants in Milans family.... :wink: no hard feelings 8)


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## Guest

You know what people say when they hear taunts like that?

'Feels unmasculine and has a small peepee'

Now, I would never say that, but I might think it.


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## MrMortgage

beachgirl said:


> You know what people say when they hear taunts like that?
> 
> 'Feels unmasculine and has a small peepee'
> 
> Now, I would never say that, but I might think it.


Now when did you see me naked :lol:


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## Guest

> Lets go down the line here...common misunderstanding about God.
> 
> God does hate things and certain people!
> 
> God does get pissed off and kills! (its not always the devil, you think God has to hire satan as a hitman?)
> 
> God does judge!
> 
> God gets jealous!


Common misunderstanding:

God is none of the above.

Common misunderstanding:

God is actually very loving and kind.

Common misunderstanding:

The teachings of Christ have been butchered worse than all of the cows in slaugtherhouse.

Common misunderstanding:

Self righteousness is evil.

Bye


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## MrMortgage

Pure Narcotic said:


> The teachings of Christ have been butchered worse than all of the cows in slaugtherhouse.
> 
> Bye
Click to expand...

I agree with that! Just look at TBN, that's the perfect example. Making money off of God like that is sick. What did Jesus do when he found that they were making money in the temple, he kicked the money changers tables over and got pissed. :roll:


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## Dreamer

> OH and I want to make a point about what dreamer said earlier, I never said women dont work hard, and that men replace women as being a mother.
> 
> I hit a real sensitive topic with dreamer, that's why she said that.


 :?:

This thread is now so absurd as Mr. M., you aren't even catching when someone is being sarcastic with you. But I swear TO GOD I have no clue what the Hell you're talking about.

I didn't say men replace women as a being a mother. ???? I have no idea what you're talking about.

LOLOLOL, seriously I don't.
D


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## Homeskooled

I cant access your link, Sleepy. But look - what Mr. Mortgage says has a ring of truth. It isnt the truth, but I think he's expressing something that is occurring in modern times with men. Society is emasculating them. And having an attitude that puts the hierarchy of the world as God, Man, Women, Animals....just shows a natural and justified frustration with it, and a little bit of a lack of theological knowledge.

Look at television....its absolutely insulting to a masculine, sensitive guy. How many sitcoms, movies, and advertisements end with the woman showing up the guy, who is really just a kind-hearted, well-meaning doofus......And it just isnt acceptable the other way around. It may be politically correct to take away a man's dignity, but its just as insulting as making women out to be kind-hearted, well-meaning, subservient doofuses. In America, we make a huge mistake. We equate equality with _being the same_. This is unnatural, and it wont work. Yes, the sum of all parts in all human beings are equal - but the parts that make up the sum are very, very different. Maybe this is heresy to say, but women are made fundamentally different than men. I dont think that women are built for nation-building and corporate takeovers - scratch that. I think that while they may be able to, they wont find it fulfilling. Men are built to like a challenge. This is why "hard to get" works on us. This is why we are perfectly content to drown our problems in work. Talk it through? Why not muscle our way through the opposition? This works in nations (sometimes) and business, but its not so good for intimate relationships and families.

Now look at women...more easily empathetic. From a biological point of view your corpus callosum, the wire which connects the right and left halves of your brain, is much, much larger than mine. You can "intuite" someone's emotion. Men need sex or a challenge to get out their frustration - women need to talk. While men may glow after "conquering" a new aquisition in business or love, women glow the most when I see them around small children, or caring for animals. Men find it easier to face the odds and take risk when they distance themselves from emotion, but women find their motivation through experiencing and expressing them. The hierarchy really goes "God" then "humans", but I honestly beleive that our places in society overlap, but are distinctly different. Yes, I do think that if a woman has children, she is much better suited spending more time with the children than the man. No, I dont think she should only spend time at home. She should work, have friends, etc....but I think that a career, in the long run, is cold comfort for a woman. 
For men, the fun is in the challenge. But for a woman, there is an emotional void that cant be filled by trying to be equal through imitation. Why not celebrate one's femininity instead of demeaning and trying to replace the opposite sex? No man will every be able to duplicate woman's gifts, and if we do, we will also feel that we are lacking something in our lives.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest

--


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## Dreamer

> Why not celebrate one's femininity instead of demeaning and trying to replace the opposite sex? No man will every be able to duplicate woman's gifts, and if we do, we will also feel that we are lacking something in our lives.


Dear Home,
First of all you have to read the link or you won't see why this is making us angry. An extreme, twisted version of the definition of "submission."

My point I badly conveyed, was however in part in agreement with the fact that I am no feminist and believe that the most important job in the world is being a mother and it is greatly underrated. I myself have never felt disdain for any many for his role in society, and I don't think women going to work is "women trying to replace men" either.

Some women have the temperament to be leaders, others don't, the same with men. There is obvious difference between men and women, yes, that is complementary.

Oh, my, this thread is so ridiculous, you have to read the link.

Also, in this day and age is is extremely unrealistic to think that women can only be a housewife and mom and not work... it takes a two-person income to take care of a family these days. Also, it's interesting that women were considered too dainty to work until they pulled Rosie the Riviter sp? out of a hat in WWII was it?

When all the men were overseas, someone had to work and the ladies rose to the occasion.

There is total confusion in this thread. Can't go on trying to explain myself as that is futile, LOL. This is something for a verbal discussion, not the internet.

This thread is truly messed up, LOL.
Home, you have to read the link. It's insane.

Best,
D

My point in all of this is, Mr. M specifically comes off in a very crude way, and others here have made the appropriate comments in regards to that, LOL.
I give up!


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## MrMortgage

Homeskooled said:


> I cant access your link, Sleepy. But look - what Mr. Mortgage says has a ring of truth. It isnt the truth, but I think he's expressing something that is occurring in modern times with men. Society is emasculating them. And having an attitude that puts the hierarchy of the world as God, Man, Women, Animals....just shows a natural and justified frustration with it, and a little bit of a lack of theological knowledge.
> 
> Look at television....its absolutely insulting to a masculine, sensitive guy. How many sitcoms, movies, and advertisements end with the woman showing up the guy, who is really just a kind-hearted, well-meaning doofus......And it just isnt acceptable the other way around. It may be politically correct to take away a man's dignity, but its just as insulting as making women out to be kind-hearted, well-meaning, subservient doofuses. In America, we make a huge mistake. We equate equality with _being the same_. This is unnatural, and it wont work. Yes, the sum of all parts in all human beings are equal - but the parts that make up the sum are very, very different. Maybe this is heresy to say, but women are made fundamentally different than men. I dont think that women are built for nation-building and corporate takeovers - scratch that. I think that while they may be able to, they wont find it fulfilling. Men are built to like a challenge. This is why "hard to get" works on us. This is why we are perfectly content to drown our problems in work. Talk it through? Why not muscle our way through the opposition? This works in nations (sometimes) and business, but its not so good for intimate relationships and families.
> 
> Now look at women...more easily empathetic. From a biological point of view your corpus callosum, the wire which connects the right and left halves of your brain, is much, much larger than mine. You can "intuite" someone's emotion. Men need sex or a challenge to get out their frustration - women need to talk. While men may glow after "conquering" a new aquisition in business or love, women glow the most when I see them around small children, or caring for animals. Men find it easier to face the odds and take risk when they distance themselves from emotion, but women find their motivation through experiencing and expressing them. The hierarchy really goes "God" then "humans", but I honestly beleive that our places in society overlap, but are distinctly different. Yes, I do think that if a woman has children, she is much better suited spending more time with the children than the man. No, I dont think she should only spend time at home. She should work, have friends, etc....but I think that a career, in the long run, is cold comfort for a woman.
> For men, the fun is in the challenge. But for a woman, there is an emotional void that cant be filled by trying to be equal through imitation. Why not celebrate one's femininity instead of demeaning and trying to replace the opposite sex? No man will every be able to duplicate woman's gifts, and if we do, we will also feel that we are lacking something in our lives.
> 
> Peace
> Homeskooled


Nailed it! My theology understanding is broken, I'm not well learned in the bible, but I know the basics, enough to make a point, and send people away thinking.

My point is not to put women down, but to show that we all have are own roles in life, in a bigger picture in Gods universe.

I'm sure to some I come off sexist, and inmature, and having a small pee pee LOL :lol: but you know what I mean LOL

Like today I was in the store buying some stuff to make soup and an old mad seen my shirt which reads Jesus is coming and hes pissed.

He got all bent out of shape and told me that Jesus is not pissed and he is all loving and yada yada yada

I tried to reason with him and he wasnt going to have it, so I just told him to read Luke 18:8.

When Jesus comes he will be pissed.


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## Dreamer

Homeskooked said:


> She should work, have friends, etc....but I think that a career, in the long run, is cold comfort for a woman.
> For men, the fun is in the challenge. But for a woman, there is an emotional void that cant be filled by trying to be equal through imitation.


Yipes, you'd get a kick in the head Home from me and a lot of my women friends for that. I know women who are attorneys who get great satisfaction from their work, the also get tremendous satisfaction from being mothers. How they have the energy to do it is beyond me.

I have many female friends ... well the majority who work and are mothers. They get tremendous satisfaction from both.

And for crying out loud, the young woman who styles my hair -- she would go CRAZY not working. She can afford to quit when she has her first baby in about 2 months, her husband said it was up to her, and she says she will stay at home for a certain length of time and be back at work! One may say, "Why? For being a hairstylist?" She takes tremendous pride in her work. And she's great at it.

Someone would say, "Why would she want to do that if she could stay at home?" Her husband isn't ordering her around. If it doesn't work, she has the luxury these days of pulling back her hours, etc.

But that particular statement you made........ yipes...... it isn't..... women aren't trying to "duplicate" the role of men in society.

I admire my women friends who have that much energy! To do both and love both and have time for their kids' activities for family activities, etc.,etc.

Oh, my this is to complicated a thread. Tired.

Peace,
D
Mr. M. is simply WAAAAAAAAY off base.


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## Dreamer

Mr. M will you please explain to ME what the heck you were talking about in that other thread... what's my little secret that's hiding my agenda? I hate it when people say things like that, cryptic little remarks. Tell me to my ... computer! Say it to my face! I don't like guessing games.

Very curious.


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## MrMortgage

Dreamer said:


> Why not celebrate one's femininity instead of demeaning and trying to replace the opposite sex? No man will every be able to duplicate woman's gifts, and if we do, we will also feel that we are lacking something in our lives.
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Home,
> First of all you have to read the link or you won't see why this is making us angry. An extreme, twisted version of the definition of "submission."
> 
> My point I badly conveyed, was however in part in agreement with the fact that I am no feminist and believe that the most important job in the world is being a mother and it is greatly underrated. I myself have never felt disdain for any many for his role in society, and I don't think women going to work is "women trying to replace men" either.
> 
> Some women have the temperament to be leaders, others don't, the same with men. There is obvious difference between men and women, yes, that is complementary.
> 
> Oh, my, this thread is so ridiculous, you have to read the link.
> 
> Also, in this day and age is is extremely unrealistic to think that women can only be a housewife and mom and not work... it takes a two-person income to take care of a family these days. Also, it's interesting that women were considered too dainty to work until they pulled Rosie the Riviter sp? out of a hat in WWII was it?
> 
> When all the men were overseas, someone had to work and the ladies rose to the occasion.
> 
> There is total confusion in this thread. Can't go on trying to explain myself as that is futile, LOL. This is something for a verbal discussion, not the internet.
> 
> This thread is truly messed up, LOL.
> Home, you have to read the link. It's insane.
> 
> Best,
> D
> 
> My point in all of this is, Mr. M specifically comes off in a very crude way, and others here have made the appropriate comments in regards to that, LOL.
> I give up!
Click to expand...

Who the heck is talking about women only being barefoot and pregnant and cooking? Who said women cant work?

We were talking about the bible scriptures here. And the fact that men are the head of the household and that they need to provide for the family and take care of the family.

Now if a man cant do that then YES maybe he should step down and let the women lead for awhile untill he's pulls his head out of his butt and gets it right. The bible even talks about this as well. God has even used women for jobs that a man couldnt but should of done...

But overall the man is the leader and women must submit like man needs to sumbit to God its pretty simple, most people dont want to listen because they have too much pride. Sorry :shock:

Lay down your sword and give me a hug


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## Guest

> My point is not to put women down, but to show that we all have are own roles in life, in a bigger picture in Gods universe.


And then that reasoning (using God as an excuse) can be used to keep women in these certain roles. Genius! 
Im sorry but its all so ridiculous what you are saying Mr Mortgage.


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## MrMortgage

Dreamer said:


> Mr. M will you please explain to ME what the heck you were talking about in that other thread... what's my little secret that's hiding my agenda? I hate it when people say things like that, cryptic little remarks. Tell me to my ... computer! Say it to my face! I don't like guessing games.
> 
> Very curious.


It wasnt anything personal, just the fact that SOME women have an experience with a dead beat dad or dead beat husband and have to make the family work on their own and work and take care of the kids yada yada yada

And after they acomplish that super hard task they feel that most men are worthless dogs and when crap hits the fan they really dont need a man.

Point is, its hard for a broken family to work, when raising young you need a womens touch and a mans touch. YOU NEED BOTH.

But most women take on that role of both and say "I can be both, I dont need a man!" Yes you do and men need women too!

But that still doesnt change the fact that men are the head of the family, but this only works if the man is acting like a man and caring for his wife and family, not getting drunk and not working while the wife is out slaving to make ends meet....that's not a man.


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## agentcooper

i shall smite you mr. m...i shall not put my sword down and give you a hug.


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## MrMortgage

Wendy said:


> My point is not to put women down, but to show that we all have are own roles in life, in a bigger picture in Gods universe.
> 
> 
> 
> And then that reasoning (using God as an excuse) can be used to keep women in these certain roles. Genius!
> Im sorry but its all so ridiculous what you are saying Mr Mortgage.
Click to expand...

You can reject what the bible says or you can accept it. I'm accepting it, youre rejecting it.

Here is another point, the man gets to be the leader right? That sounds so unfair right? If you were to read the bible it says that the man is responsible for his family and wife, and if he leads them the wrong way or doesnt do his God given job he will have to deal with God and the women will be spared just as long as she submits to her man.

Hows that for payback, "Ha loser, you wanted to be the leader, and I know you were doing a crappy job but I did my part (as a women) and now God is going to pimp slap you while I'm getting my feet rubbed"

Something along those lines LOL 8) It's not all one sided the men get to take the heat in the end and the women, (just as long as they play the right role) will have no worries.

It works both ways, see! You cant just read one verse and think you know what its saying, you have to read the whole point, which is what people rarley do


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## MrMortgage

agentcooper said:


> i shall smite you mr. m...i shall not put my sword down and give you a hug.


Please I smell really good.


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## Dreamer

First of all, why did you not say that to me outright. That's rather rude.

That aside, you are saying that because I come from a family that is broken, which is true, with my mother as she was, etc. that my POV is disorted? It's not.

If I could have, I personally would have been a stay at home MOM. As it is I have no children and I'm very sad about that. My illness prevented it, many circumstances in my life.

I'm also not a feminist. My mother was, yes.

If my parents had been healthy -- my father was also ill -- we might have had a great family. Both of my parents were doctors for crying out loud. My father admired my mother -- until she started treating him like crap.

But that was my mother. I am not my mother! Dear Lord.

I still don't think you understand my POV on this.

Personally I would have like to have had a career and children. I imagine though at some point, I would have decided to be a full time mom. I don't know. And I don't have the same religious beliefs as you do. That doesn't make my choices or those of my husband "wrong" or "bad."

Well. I give up.

Also, do you think Dr. Daphne Simeon who is our champion researcher in DP/DR is not satisfied in her work as a doctor? Yipes. I say thank God for HER!

Part of this is a HUGE difference of opinion, some of this is misunderstanding, and some of this is indeed an extreme interpretation of the Bible.

Hey, I believe in the biological imperative, I believe the sexes ideally have complementary roles. But this has been drastically altered by society AND no man has the right to tell a woman how to lead her life, unless she's broken the law.

Sigh.
I am exhausted, LOL


----------



## Dreamer

MrMortgage said:


> Dreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. M will you please explain to ME what the heck you were talking about in that other thread... what's my little secret that's hiding my agenda? I hate it when people say things like that, cryptic little remarks. Tell me to my ... computer! Say it to my face! I don't like guessing games.
> 
> Very curious.
> 
> 
> 
> *It wasnt anything personal, just the fact that SOME women have an experience with a dead beat dad or dead beat husband and have to make the family work on their own and work and take care of the kids yada yada yada
> 
> And after they acomplish that super hard task they feel that most men are worthless dogs and when crap hits the fan they really dont need a man.*
> 
> Point is, its hard for a broken family to work, when raising young you need a womens touch and a mans touch. YOU NEED BOTH.
> 
> But most women take on that role of both and say "I can be both, I dont need a man!" Yes you do and men need women too!
> 
> But that still doesnt change the fact that men are the head of the family, but this only works if the man is acting like a man and caring for his wife and family, not getting drunk and not working while the wife is out slaving to make ends meet....that's not a man.
Click to expand...

--------------------------
Woah, I just reread this. I have NEVER have said, I don't need a man! Now again you are making me sound like my mother. My MOTHER said that, I didn't. She was ill, she had paranoia, a lot of other problems. My father had OCD. I understand both of them so much more.

I have never felt men are useless garbage! Where in the world did you get that from?

I NEED men in my life. I VALUE men. You have no understanding of who I am.

WOWZER. :shock:

When did I say my father was a dead-beat, or my husband a dead-beat?????


----------



## MrMortgage

Dreamer...relax, this topic isnt about you. I never ment to offend you. Every example I have made, you took as if it was toward you.

I only gave examples and answered question on things you asked me to clarify.

And even in those answer 95% of it wasnt directed toward you.

When I talk and type, I have a weird way of expressing myself, and its easily taken as being rude or a put down.

Here is my simple response to this whole thread. God's order or divine order is black and white.

I never said women cant have jobs, women cant be doctors, women cant have opinions, women cant be leaders.

As soon as someone brings up something that is directly or indirectly related to their past (and dreamer this does not mean you so relax) they seem to have a stong opinion about issues and come off raw.

When I read this link that sleeping put up, I skimmed through it, and I didnt recongize it saying that women must pleasure their man when he wants how he wants yada yada, I just read it saying that its okay to get a little kinky in the bedroom and theres nothing wrong with it if your married. Also explaining Gods order.

I might have missed something in that website about it being okay to rape and beat and force a women to do this and that, because God says its okay....if it said anything close to that, then that's pretty scary and straight up wrong! But I didnt read that. Soooo.......

It's simple, go to church, when the preacher starts to preach about "women are great, men have to have em' women do this women do that" basically start to preach about how great women are, the women are the first to get up and say AMEN!

But when the preacher starts to talk about divine order and how it goes God, Jesus, Man, Women, the women are the first to walk out, or disagree.

Like I said before you cant just take what you want and leave the rest, it doesnt work that way.


----------



## MrMortgage

Now that you have cooled down a bit dreamer, give me a hug, I'm not an @$$.

I know what I'm talking about when it comes to topics like this, now if this was some topic not concerning God I would be out of my league, becuase all someone would have to say is "we dont believe in God" and all my points would be turned to crap.

But since this topic was all brought up by scriptures in the Bible well.....I have to jump in!

When have I come into post saying (and again dreamer this doesnt me you) "Mr. M your and idiot and you know nothing", "Mr. M your a sexist pig", "Mr. M you have a little pee pee and are a loser" (I'm not quoting anyone directly this is just what some people have said to me)

I put down nobody directly, and I'm called rude.

I get put down directly and I say nothing rude in return.

Come on guys...its just friendly conversation. :idea:


----------



## agentcooper

MrMortgage said:


> agentcooper said:
> 
> 
> 
> i shall smite you mr. m...i shall not put my sword down and give you a hug.
> 
> 
> 
> Please I smell really good.
Click to expand...

 :lol: that made me giggle.. i'm not trying to insult you personally but i do think you are dead wrong about most of what you said. i also think that your way of thinking encourages many people to leave their religion and question god.


----------



## MrMortgage

agentcooper said:


> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> agentcooper said:
> 
> 
> 
> i shall smite you mr. m...i shall not put my sword down and give you a hug.
> 
> 
> 
> Please I smell really good.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :lol: that made me giggle.. i'm not trying to insult you personally but i do think you are dead wrong about most of what you said. i also think that your way of thinking encourages many people to leave their religion and question god.
Click to expand...

I dont encourage anything, I just speak truth! Take it or leave it, but if someone is going to leave their religion thats their choice. They cant say "that 23 year punk made me!"

To be honest, what really got me going on this topic was God's devine order, and the lack of acceptence.


----------



## Scattered

Woman! Go get me a sandwhich...and vacuum the floor one in a while...Jesus.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

wow. :shock:

i truly feel sorry for the unlucky lady that gets to be your wench mortage. you just better hope she aint gonna loraina bobbit you after the first year of marriage. i know i would after the first day. but then again, i am an asskicking amazonian warrior woman. and like it or not weve been around forever and will still continue to dominate. maybe you should pry your nose out of the "word" and read the Iliad, written 7th century BC.. thats BEFORE christ in case you didnt know. (yes.. there was life before christ im afraid) and Amazons are frequent in greek mythology, which is far older then your christian mythology.


----------



## Milan

Yes Mr M, the wifey wears the pants and I wear the g-strings. The fishnets and the garter belt looks really hot on me - I'll send you a picture if you wish (and I'm not kidding).

'Jesus is coming and his pissed'

For the yanks out there 'pissed' is a colloquialism in Aus, NZ and the UK for being drunk. So if Jesus is coming to start a party - I'm in! But somehow I think we'll be waiting a long, long, very long time (actually I think he's going to ditch the party).

I like Martin am absolutely flabbergasted at how super intelligent people whole heartedly believe in the bible - even the fables in the old testament! And the Americans are the worst offenders. Unfortunately the American evangelists are infiltrating into Australia now and starting to screw with the minds of the young. I've been there done that with the religion thing - it's a waste of time. Believe in the here and now and yourself. Praying will not help but a positive attitude will. If praying helps solve our miserable problems my life should be bliss by now.

Now after saying all that I'll shock you all with my next statement. I go to church and most times enjoy it! Hypocritical.....maybe, but I go for reasons other than faith. I like the community spirit, the warm fuzzies I get being there, getting my son into a private school and listening to the gospels ('cause I enjoyed the stories as a child). But my bulls hit filter is on full ball and I don't have that urge to be a good Catholic with the thinking that I'll go to hell for not worshiping the lord (seriously, what crap!!!!). Maybe I'm wrong but I will not wast my time thinking I'm a worthless sinner on a path to hell.

In the name of the father, son and holy spirit......Amen.


----------



## MrMortgage

Milan said:


> Yes Mr M, the wifey wears the pants and I wear the g-strings. The fishnets and the garter belt looks really hot on me - I'll send you a picture if you wish (and I'm not kidding).
> 
> 'Jesus is coming and his pissed'
> 
> For the yanks out there 'pissed' is a colloquialism in Aus, NZ and the UK for being drunk. So if Jesus is coming to start a party - I'm in! But somehow I think we'll be waiting a long, long, very long time (actually I think he's going to ditch the party).
> 
> I like Martin am absolutely flabbergasted at how super intelligent people whole heartedly believe in the bible - even the fables in the old testament! And the Americans are the worst offenders. Unfortunately the American evangelists are infiltrating into Australia now and starting to screw with the minds of the young. I've been there done that with the religion thing - it's a waste of time. Believe in the here and now and yourself. Praying will not help but a positive attitude will. If praying helps solve our miserable problems my life should be bliss by now.
> 
> Now after saying all that I'll shock you all with my next statement. I go to church and most times enjoy it! Hypocritical.....maybe, but I go for reasons other than faith. I like the community spirit, the warm fuzzies I get being there, getting my son into a private school and listening to the gospels ('cause I enjoyed the stories as a child). But my bulls hit filter is on full ball and I don't have that urge to be a good Catholic with the thinking that I'll go to hell for not worshiping the lord (seriously, what crap!!!!). Maybe I'm wrong but I will not wast my time thinking I'm a worthless sinner on a path to hell.
> 
> In the name of the father, son and holy spirit......Amen.


Hey dont tell anybody this...but uh....can I get those pictures? 8)


----------



## MrMortgage

sleepingbeauty said:


> wow. :shock:
> 
> i truly feel sorry for the unlucky lady that gets to be your wench mortage. you just better hope she aint gonna loraina bobbit you after the first year of marriage. i know i would after the first day. but then again, i am an asskicking amazonian warrior woman. and like it or not weve been around forever and will still continue to dominate. maybe you should pry your nose out of the "word" and read the Iliad, written 7th century BC.. thats BEFORE christ in case you didnt know. (yes.. there was life before christ im afraid) and Amazons are frequent in greek mythology, which is far older then your christian mythology.


Uh...the bible goes back 7 thousand years too. And Sleeping, I want my pee pee back, I know it was a one night thing, but I cant use the restroom without it.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

uh sorry mortgage, i aint falling for your kissass remarks. they dont work on me remember? i think its pretty cheep for you to post completely sexist/facist rants and then have the balls to try to giggle it off. its bullshit and this disobedient, godless wench aint buyin. :roll:


----------



## MrMortgage

sleepingbeauty said:


> uh sorry mortgage, i aint falling for your kissass remarks. they dont work on me remember? i think its pretty cheep for you to post completely sexist/facist rants and then have the balls to try to giggle it off. its bullshit and this disobedient, godless wench aint buyin. :roll:


You still didnt answer my request. LOL 

And yes my kissass remarks do work on you, remember?


----------



## SillyPutty

Has the Bible changed overe the years?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorg.html

Is the Bible sexist?

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sexism.html

FYI, mortgage is definately miscommunicating to you all. I agree with his point of view but he is not portraying it well. Forgive him he really does mean well.


----------



## Guest

Maybe I should change my username.


----------



## SillyPutty

mrmole said:


> Maybe I should change my username.


What? Why?


----------



## Guest

It does say something in the bible about wives submitting wholely to their husbands, but in return, the husband is supposed to be a true, righteous MAN. He's supposed to think only of her, forsake all others in mind and body, be her champion and protector, honor her, etc.

But so what?? THe bible was written by MEN. NOT GOD. 
Weak, silly men ignore everything that doesn't accord them the right to behave any low-life way they want to. Women are waking up and helping each other and GOOD men are on board too. GOOD men rock! There are LOTS of them around.
THings are never going to go backward. Despite the prevalence of religious robots, there are so many really kind and courageous PEOPLE who care more about truth and humanity than their own insignificant egos. THey are people from every type of religion and no religion. Kind, intelligent people don't put their dogma or their egos before their hearts and minds.
Religion has been used as a tool for controlling weak-minded masses with fear and it obviously works.
Any scared robot can reiterate passages from the man-written bible. It takes a kind, honest, courageous person to act with integrity and compassion.Those are the people I respect, and it doesn't matter if they're Christian or atheist alcoholics or in a psycho ward. THeir purity shines through and it can't be faked.


----------



## MrMortgage

People getting angry because they think cavemen like me are still roaming the earth with sexist thoughts.

Their moms and dads, and people like hilary clinton and oprah told women that they are just as good as men and even better, and also told them that God made women stonger then man. Dont ever let a guy tell you he is better then you are.

Then some young guy comes on the scene and tells you what God thinks, its black and white in the scriptures, and you guys cant take it. You reject it, and that's fine.

Think of it this way, why did the guy or girl get the promotion at your job that you think you deserved more? If fact you dont just think you deserved it more, it was fact, you did deserve it more. But the other guy or girl still got, the boss felt they deserved or earned it, or just wanted that person to have it more then you. BOY THAT SUCKS, BUT THAT'S LIFE!

Same thing with this, maybe women are really better then men, but God wants men to be the leader, and the women need to submit.

That's as black and white as it gets, like I said before you either accept it or reject it.

If you can drop the pride issue and give your life to God you would see how this all comes together, but you got to drop the sword and shield and let God be your sword and shield.

Its the hardest thing to do but it must be done.


----------



## agentcooper

do you think that everything in the scriptures is true? (just curious)


----------



## SillyPutty

I do,yes. Just my opinion, cooper asked, not looking for an arguement.

however I will note that man has interpreted much of it to suit his own agenda


----------



## MrMortgage

agentcooper said:


> do you think that everything in the scriptures is true? (just curious)


That's a good question! Not everything in the scriptures is true, most of it is, the bible says that you must let the holy spirit tell you whats right and what wrong.

When I start talking about letting the holy spririt guide, that's when most people, think I'm looney and people really put me way out in left field.

For instance like the book of James! Everyone likes the book of James, but James was Jesus's half brother, and he never walk with Jesus and really didnt know jack about the Bible, the only reason why James got a chance to speak is because Paul got thrown and jail and James was the "perfect" replacement... after all he is the half brother of Jesus right?

You talk to a majority of Christians and Catholic and they love the book of James and the truth is the book of James is more of an example of what not to do, how not to lead a church, then what people think.

People think I'm talking out of my ass and dont know a darn thing, but I know more about the bible then some ministers do, and I've only been in the word for about a year now.

Most churches preech the same thing over and over again and they never get out of the "wheel" They preech on not sinning and how God loves and wants you to be rich, how stay in the basics for 10 years and never leave that.

There are 66 other books in the bible to learn off of.


----------



## MrMortgage

SillyPutty said:


> I do,yes. Just my opinion, cooper asked, not looking for an arguement.
> 
> however I will note that man has interpreted much of it to suit his own agenda


Also very true, men have used the word of God for power and to make money! Just watch TBN most of the stuff on there is BS some of it is good but most is BS


----------



## agentcooper

i should have put it like this:

do you believe in the bible, LITERALLY. word for word...every thing the bible says is the 100% truth...no interpretation.


----------



## SillyPutty

Do I believe that those that wrote the bible did some interpreting? No.
I believe that the bible is the infailable inspired word of God.100%.
I believe that EVERY word of the bible is there because He wanted it to be.

DO I believe that He left areas that are not 100% clear on EVERY subject, YES. And I believe He did that because He has different intentions in certain areas for certain people, so He wants to reveal somethings to us individualy as specific instructions that pertain to us personally.

Example: I believe that the bible is unclear wether it is OK for us as Christians to drink. I believe that is because He has called certain people to abstain from it completely, some to abstain from certain types of alchohol (wine vs. hard liqure),and some that are free to drink all types but in specific moderation, in certain company, during a certain season of their life. You see specific detailed instuctions for individuals, does that make sense?


----------



## MrMortgage

agentcooper said:


> i should have put it like this:
> 
> do you believe in the bible, LITERALLY. word for word...every thing the bible says is the 100% truth...no interpretation.


I was at a mens meeting last night, and we were talking about this. There are some things in the bible you need to take literally and somethings that need to be interpreted.

The key about interpreting, is if you know the bible, you will know what to take literaly and what needs to be interpreted.

People see interpretation as opinion, and its not! If it was an opinion then we would call it that, but its not.

in?ter?pre?ta?tion (n-t?rpr-tshn)
n.

1. The act or process of explaining the meaning of something.

o?pin?ion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-pnyn)
n.

1. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

A lot of people see the bible as it contradicting itself, which is totally not true.

For example, this is not a real story in the bible but some stories do sound like this. "The man had sex with many women and he was a man of God" People would gasp at that and say OH MY GOD THE TEN COMMANDENTS SAY THATS WRONG HOW CAN SOMEONE BE A MAN OF GOD AND STILL DO THAT, THE BIBLE IS CONTRADICTING!

But if you knew the rest of the story you wouldnt ask that question or have that reaction. The truth is "God allowed that man to do that as a gift as long as he was going to up hold a blood line promise and not get another women pregnant, then later he does gets another women pregnant and ruins the blood line and God gets pissed and has an angel come and kill him"

Now that story isnt out of the bible, but there are many stories like that in the bible, that people never read or teach on because most people couldnt handle it.

In stories like this God was trying to make a point and hold up a greater promise, but if you didnt read chapters 5 and 6 verses 7-10 you wouldnt of known that, you would of went away thinking that the bible is all bull crap and contradicting.

Now do you see why the Bible is so misunderstood?


----------



## MrMortgage

SillyPutty said:


> Do I believe that those that wrote the bible did some interpreting? No.
> I believe that the bible is the infailable inspired word of God.100%.
> I believe that EVERY word of the bible is there because He wanted it to be.
> 
> DO I believe that He left areas that are not 100% clear on EVERY subject, YES. And I believe He did that because He has different intentions in certain areas for certain people, so He wants to reveal somethings to us individualy as specific instructions that pertain to us personally.
> 
> Example: I believe that the bible is unclear wether it is OK for us as Christians to drink. I believe that is because He has called certain people to abstain from it completely, some to abstain from certain types of alchohol (wine vs. hard liqure),and some that are free to drink all types but in specific moderation, in certain company, during a certain season of their life. You see specific detailed instuctions for individuals, does that make sense?


Damn SILLY! YOU NAILED IT! THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I MEAN WHEN YOU SHOULD LET THE HOLLY SPIRIT TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED! THE SCRIPTURES ARENT FOR YOU TO TAKE LITTERALY BUT THAT SAME SCRIPTURE WAS MENT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE LITTERALY.

The bible is actually pretty simple if you take the time and study it, I go to class on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Sundays. Its like going to school.

Now what everyones is going to say I'm getting brainwashed because I'm going too much right? LOL :roll: Ya that's the easy answer, if you were to go that much you would get brainwashed too. :roll:


----------



## agentcooper

MrMortgage said:


> I was at a mens meeting last night, and we were talking about this. There are some things in the bible you need to take literally and somethings that need to be interpreted.
> 
> The key about interpreting, is if you know the bible, you will know what to take literaly and what needs to be interpreted.


ppfft! yup, just what i thought.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

exactly. so you take what you want to hear and you leave out what you dont. call it whatever you want, its still hypocritical bullhash. and how does this "holy spirit" TELL you? does HE speak to you? when you sing hosana in the highest, and you raise your hands to the cieling, do lightning bolts come down and let you know what is the right passage and what is the wrong one? honestly, tell me what it is cause i really want to know this. i spent most of my life in the evangelical church, i read the bible and memorized its passages. i raised my hands above my head and swooned back and forth like everyone else (cause thats what i was supposed to do) but i felt more like a dork then someone being struck by some unseen allpowerful force. jesus spoke to me all the time. he would tell me to count things over and over or else something bad will happen. later i found out it was simply ocd. the first time i had sex, i was 19 and i thought for sure god was gonna smite me. but it never happened. in fact all that worrying and waiting was for nothing. all part of the fear based agenda of the christian "faith". and i fell for it. boy was i dumb! :roll:


----------



## Milan

I definitely thought God would do something terrible to me to me each time I had a date with mrs palmer. Nothing ever did happen though. I was even thinking of changing religion so that I could self pleasure without guilt and the knowledge that I wouldn't burn in hell for eternity.


----------



## Guest

SillyPutty said:


> mrmole said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I should change my username.
> 
> 
> 
> What? Why?
Click to expand...

We're both Mr M :lol:


----------



## Dreamer

Milan said:


> I definitely thought God would do something terrible to me to me each time I had a date with mrs palmer. Nothing ever did happen though. I was even thinking of changing religion so that I could self pleasure without guilt and the knowledge that I wouldn't burn in hell for eternity.


LOLOLOL, "Mrs. Palmer"

This is what is really a shame about religion. To make us feel guilty about the most wonderful thing in life. No not masturbation (that's up there, LOL), but our sexuality, our ability to make love.

That is just plain criminal.


----------



## MrMortgage

Dreamer said:


> Milan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely thought God would do something terrible to me to me each time I had a date with mrs palmer. Nothing ever did happen though. I was even thinking of changing religion so that I could self pleasure without guilt and the knowledge that I wouldn't burn in hell for eternity.
> 
> 
> 
> LOLOLOL, "Mrs. Palmer"
> 
> This is what is really a shame about religion. To make us feel guilty about the most wonderful thing in life. No not masturbation (that's up there, LOL), but our sexuality, our ability to make love.
> 
> That is just plain criminal.
Click to expand...

Well I'll tell you what... Human's have changed the word of God. The bible hasnt changed but the preeching has.

Remember, Jesus died on that cross for your sins and to cleanse your sin consious. You should not feel guilty to the point that you turn away from Jesus.

In fact, that's exactly what satan wants you to do.

I'm not giving an excuse to go out and kill, get loaded, steal, lie your ass off, rape, have sex with countless women. But remember it's human nature to do stuff like this, while we are in the flesh its impossible not to sin.

Dont beat yourself up for being human. But remember, learn to control yourself. Use common sense.


----------



## Martinelv

:lol: :lol: :lol: (You just knew I'd turn up sooner or later, god/s damn me!)

I haven't read anything so funny in ages. Astonishing stuff.

Mr Mortgage. Are you for real? Honestly? I'm not patronising you, I really need to know. You quote passages from that book of yours like it's the truth. Dear lord. Don't you realise that the female of our species are really the ones in charge? It takes a lifetime of male stupidity to work it out, and by then it's too late. Your brand of religion is like having your brain cleaned in a dishwasher. I expect you go to church with a head full of s.h.i.t and come out sparkling fresh and ready to alienate everyone.

Homeskooled - there is not a shred of truth in what he said. Not one. It's beneath derision, and no amount of your intellectual diatribes will make any difference to those of us, the majority, who live in a consensual reality.

But please, keep it up, it takes my mind of my....sigh....Pnumonea.


----------



## MrMortgage

Martinelv said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: (You just knew I'd turn up sooner or later, god/s damn me!)
> 
> I haven't read anything so funny in ages. Astonishing stuff.
> 
> Mr Mortgage. Are you for real? Honestly? I'm not patronising you, I really need to know. You quote passages from that book of yours like it's the truth. Dear lord. Don't you realise that the female of our species are really the ones in charge? It takes a lifetime of male stupidity to work it out, and by then it's too late. Your brand of religion is like having your brain cleaned in a dishwasher. I expect you go to church with a head full of s.h.i.t and come out sparkling fresh and ready to alienate everyone.
> 
> Homeskooled - there is not a shred of truth in what he said. Not one. It's beneath derision, and no amount of your intellectual diatribes will make any difference to those of us, the majority, who live in a consensual reality.
> 
> But please, keep it up, it takes my mind of my....sigh....Pnumonea.


Ahahaha! Now I know why your still single LOL. :lol:


----------



## Martinelv

Yes, perhaps it's because I don't go out and treat women like s.h.i.t anymore. :wink:


----------



## Homeskooled

> Homeskooled - there is not a shred of truth in what he said. Not one. It's beneath derision, and no amount of your intellectual diatribes will make any difference to those of us, the majority, who live in a consensual reality.


Well, at least you admit that I'm religious AND an intellectual. I'm getting somewhere.

Thats the new cureall for theistic/atheistic arguments, isnt it? The old consensual reality blanket statement. I'll leave that go because I get where its coming from, but its as weak an argument as beleiving that there is no consensus. I am also flattered that my ONE post in these seven pages actually merited a comment. I'm either making my points more clearly understood than usual, or they are particularly infuriating- perhaps both.

You know, I just had a discussion with someone on this forum about diplomacy. Do you know how that is practiced? You find the truth in someone's statement to you, a truth that you too embrace, and you work from that point to empathise with their stance where the truth exists, and chide them where they stray into prejudice or injustice. In doing so, you find common ground and open up channels for change, because you are not attacking them. In my post, I stated some things I truly beleive. It is completely incidental, although not unintentional, that these observations of mine seem in some ways to agree with MrMortgage and in other ways to differ. I state in the post, just as I will now, that I see feminism and right-wing chauvinism to be two sides of the same coin. To me, they are both _reactionary_ philosophies. People feel hurt, and in forming an opinion of how society should work, throw the baby out with the bath water. I may not be able to empathize with either side's stances, but I certainly empathize with their motives. This is why I have so many right wing and feminist friends. They are all just people searching for truth and acceptance, and I shy away from neither.

Peace
Homeskooled


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