# For those with cannabis induced DP



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I came across this story a few weeks ago and thought it might be of some help to some of you as I read that a few of you were questioning whether drug induced DP was permanent. Its a bit long but worth it.

Five years ago, when i was 21, i had never heard of depersonalisation. i was a happy university student, merry with life, friends and essays, oblivious to any world except my own steady, reliable one. although i was a shy, deep thinking person i had never felt particularly anxious or stressed about anything in my life and had never suffered from any neurosis or psychological problems at all. at 21, i was a small cheery boat bobbing along on the ocean, basking in the sun; i was a bright red balloon exploring lightly in the air. quite simply, i was ignorant of any possibility of my life changing at all. blinded by the sun, i was not aware of the thunderbolt that was streaming headlong towards me.

depersonalisation (dp) is a horrible, unpredictable, inexplicable experience. more than anything, it is frightening. it is described by medical dictionaries as ' a sensation of feeling as if living in a dream, feeling of nothing being real, feeling detached from oneself, yet remaining aware this is just a sensation'. i know, it sounds really crazy and unimaginable. even now as i write this with the memory of dp inside me, knowing exactly what it is like, i cannot remember precisely how it felt and i cannot relive the terror of the feeling. that is a mercy for me.

sat in my bedroom with six other student friends in february 1995 i accepted the offered rollup of tobacco and cannabis and inhaled three times. i remember it was exactly three times because i was to think about it so many times afterwards. not having tried cannabis a great deal before, and not being generally into that scene anyway, i declined the additional offer and went to the other side of my room to go to bed. i wanted them all to leave really but they carried on smoking and laughing. they were chilled; i was tired and felt a little peculiar. so i lay down and tried to go to sleep. two minutes passed.

'jo?' 'jo - come over here...jo...please...oh my god what's wrong with me? Oh my god...Jo, something's happened to me...god, this is all wrong, I've gone...oh no...I'm not here...Jo, please, I'm not here...

I was having my first experience of depersonalisation.

I remember when I was asked by my alarmed friends what I felt like I told them: 'It's like I'm inside an egg or a bubble and you're all on the other side of it'. I had no idea what was happening to me and I was absolutely, uncontrollably terrified. I remember them all stood around my bed looking down at me and I could hear them and see them all accurately; but it was like I was watching cardboard cutouts of them, like they were on a stage or in another world to me. What was happening all around me just did not feel real and I was genuinely considering the possibility that I was dreaming. I felt different; I was not 'me' anymore. This new world felt so different to the one I was in just a moment ago and yet everything I could see was the same as it had been. Everything was exactly the same and yet everything was completely different. I could not make sense of myself and I did not recognise the mind that I was thinking with. I tried to think about what I was feeling so I could get a grip on it but I quickly seemed to slide further and further down into the experience and when I looked up I was lost inside my own mind.. The utter fear and incomprehension at what was happening to me grew swiftly into a panic and within minutes I began to hyperventilate.

A nurse who lived in our house ignored my pleas for an ambulance and watched me carefully instead. By this time I had wrapped myself up in a ball in the corner of the kitchen and was continuing my panic although I was perfectly coherent and not seemingly crazy. My assertions of feeling 'lost, different and in an egg' were clearly a result of the cannabis to the nurse and because of the probable temporary effect of cannabis she did not think I warranted a doctor. In retrospect, she was right too.

My hyperventilating was scaring me as I thought perhaps I was now heading for a cardiac arrest. I was breathing in and out so hard and loud it was all I could concentrate on and so the panic grew. Some of you may know that panic is an almost uncontrollable feeling when it sweeps over you, but I emphasise the 'almost' here because within ten minutes I was able to calm myself down. Ten minutes of panic though; that was a result of working myself up so much I could not see, I could not hear and I would not look at anything beyond my own fear.

What caused me the most fear during this experience was the dread that I was going to stay like it. I thought perhaps I had damaged my brain and I was going to be lost inside my own head for the rest of my life. If only I had known that I was going to come back to normal again within three hours I'm sure I would've been calmer. And so I did come back to normal again. Towards the end of the DP, sat on my bed with Jo watching over me, I 'flashed' in and out of the feeling a few times before eventually coming back to what I recognised as normality again. I remember saying something like, 'I'm back...no I've gone again...no, it's ok, I'm back now'. It was like I was swooping in and out of different worlds, though seeing the same things in each world. Anyway, I had eventually arrived back home.

I was completely back to normal for the next year, continuing with my adored essays (!) and regularly frequenting pubs as every good student should. Spring, summer, autumn passed. Then disaster struck my life again. My beloved, intelligent and funny, older brother, who was 22, was killed from a fall. I seemed to cope ok with this and our close-knit family huddled together for support.

Then, a few weeks later, before Xmas 1995, I did the stupidest thing and went to our local woods and smoked a couple of drags of cannabis again. It was, I was told, 'leaf', and therefore very strong stuff. Literally within 30 seconds of smoking it I felt a switch turn in my mind and suddenly I was back in depersonalisation. My poor friends walked me around a local park for hours, as I was too scared to go home to my parents and too scared to go to sleep. But the feeling remained although I was convinced it would eventually go, like my previous experience.

It didn't.

In fact, this time I awoke with the feeling in the morning and was to continue with it for the next 3 months.

I remember frantically working out to my Jane Fonda tape the following morning and drinking copious amounts of black coffee in the hope of 'burning' it out of my system and shocking my mind back to normal. But it didn't work and I was still alone in my frightening world. How could I tell my parents? My brother had had psychological problems which contributed to his death only a few weeks previously so I couldn't tell them I too was going the same way, which is what I believed.

I went to the doctor the same day and she told me I was having a psychotic episode, which scared me even more. She did not mention depersonalisation so I assumed she was right. She gave me anti-psychotic drugs which I took and sat waiting for the feeling to go. But it stayed. They didn't work because it was not a psychotic reaction - something I know now . Instead, I felt incredibly thirsty ( an effect of the drugs) and very anxious.

I went back and a few days later she gave me tranquillisers to soothe my mounting anxiety but they made the feeling worse about 10 minutes after I had taken them and I sank deeper into the DP. I cycled back to the doctors visibly swaying over the road from the effect of the drugs. She could do no more for me than she had, she said. I was lost.

I would lie in bed at night and listen to my mind thinking, and then realise I was listening to my thoughts as if I was someone outside of myself. Was I still me? I knew that I was but I did not feel like I did. It sounds mad, I know, and that was the reason I could not tell my parents. I was still alone and everyone I spoke to was still a cardboard cutout in a different world. I couldn't get back to them. I might wake up suddenly and be back in our local woods with my friends. I was a completely new person in a new life. I had a new body and new mind and I couldn't get back my old life. I was so, so scared that this time it was going to last forever. It seemed that there was nothing I, or the doctors, could do.

Christmas passed and the presents and food flowed. It was a sombre Christmas anyway because of my brother's death, quite a contrast to our usual love of the festival. I would not touch alcohol because I was so scared it would make me worse; and I didn't speak a lot to people, instead spending my time upstairs alone, reading and crying to myself. My parents were naturally concerned but I couldn't tell them what was wrong with me. "I'm going mad and you are all in a different world". And Merry Christmas. I did not want them to worry about me with everything else that had happened and so I held it inside, checking every moment to see if I was coming out of the feeling yet.

I found myself constantly checking my surroundings to see if I was back to normal yet. This, I realise now, was futile and actually worsened it because it was conditioning my mind to think about dp almost continuously. I was also starting to have certain triggers that would make the DP worse, like someone walking into a room and talking suddenly, or a light switch going on. These triggers could fling me into dp even more deeply and lead to me swiftly walking from the room up to my bedroom, leaving a bewildered family behind. I remember playing 'Trivial Pursuit' with my family over this Christmas, suddenly getting an intense wave of dp come over me, and just upping and rushing upstairs. My enjoyment of life was nil at this point, and I was praying to god to help me.

I wrote a poem at this point. It's short and ineffectual but it was raw emotion at the time:

'Inside myself and only I know 
That from this place I cannot go. 
I'm here alone, alone, alone, 
Inside two minds and lost in one'

'I hear you all and see you well 
but the things you say just build and swell. 
You're outside there, I'm inside here; 
And only I can feel my fear.'

'When you speak don't you know that you terrify me 
Because you are alone in your reality 
And I, I can see you, but I am in mine 
I've lost the key and it's so hard to find.'

Depressing eh? I know, but as I said, it was pure emotion and it was how I felt.

~Onto realisation~ 
I returned to university after Christmas and because there was no improvement I went to the doctor there. It was then that I was told I was experiencing 'depersonalisation'. What reassured me most then was that she told me it was not an illness in itself, it was a symptom of something, normally fear or intense anxiety, and that it was NOT a psychosis. I knew at last that I was not going mad. She told me that it was brought on by the cannabis and the effect of dp would have lasted just while the cannabis was in my system, purely a matter of days. The reason I still had the feeling weeks later was because the dp was being fed by my fear of it and my constant tuning into it. My brain had conditioned itself to see the world in this way. So it was me, not the cannabis that was making the feeling stay.

So I knew I was not 'mad'. But this was only the start of making myself better. I still had the feeling 
with me most of each day and so I determined to find out as much as 
possible about it, even though I was very scared of reading something linking dp to serious mental illness. This was a very genuine fear at the time.

I read a lot of books about anxiety and agoraphobia. That's not what DP is, but there were some very relevant sections in the books. Particularly good and helpful were a series of books by Dr. Claire Weeks about anxiety and agoraphobia with titles like 'Self help for your nerves'. These discuss DP and dilute it down to a symptom of deep introspection that can be understood and controlled. It was through these books that I realised it was myself, through my consistent introspection and self-awareness, who was causing the dp now.

To take my mind from the dp I started to write my own crosswords. In doing this, I saw that having my mind taken off the feeling had actually stopped it. I was in control of it. This recognition was all I needed. Psychiatrists and doctors did not help me; I had to help myself.

I still think about it a lot now and feel like I might slip back into it if I am over-tired or have drunk too much the night before, but I do not tune in to it so it does not happen. It is not easy and I must admit to still being very scared of going back into the feeling. But I have learned to turn my thoughts away as soon as I feel it happening. I still have certain triggers for me that will make me think of DP and therefore bring it on, such as a sudden bright light, television and someone stepping into a room. I actually couldn't watch TV for a year at one stage. This was useful while at university because I spent all that time reading and writing essays instead! I know my triggers so well that I could, if I wanted to (and I don't), make myself go back into the dp again. I occasionally feel tempted to, just to prove to myself that I can bring myself out of it again. But basically I am too scared of finding my way out again. So I don't and I shan't 'experiment' with my mind any more.

I have not gone into DP for almost 5 years now.

~Reflections~ 
When I first got access to the Internet I looked up depersonalisation and was amazed to find lots of information on it and a whole site dedicated to it (http://www.depersonalization.hypermart.net) where there were hundreds of other people who have been suffering for years and still are. I write to a lot of these people now and advise them of what helped me to overcome it. Their lives seem to be dominated by depersonalisation and my heart goes out to them so much because I will never forget how terrifying and hopeless it all seems.

Perhaps someone reading this op may recognize some of the feelings I've described and realise that they've had it or still have it. If so, I am including my list of advice which I believe helped me overcome DP.

ADVICE 
1) If you feel the DP coming, DO NOT TUNE IN.! Turn your mind to something else completely and leave the room/area if you have to. 
2) Stop checking on your perception of things, this can induce DP or make 
it worse. 
3) Take up something that needs you to concentrate on something other than yourself, like crosswords or just reading. 
4) Try to avoid situations/ objects that you know will make DP worse IF you are feeling particularly vulnerable to it. Otherwise, try to do things you fear. (For me my DP triggers were TV and cinema - temporarily - fairground rides, computer games and bright echoey rooms like supermarkets). 
5) 5) Read as much about it as you can. (I went to libraries but you also have 
the net as a good resource) and educate yourself, trying not to be scared 
of reading anything that might make you feel worse. 
6) Try to find someone to talk to about it. I had no-one who really 
understood and it was very frustrating trying to explain myself. 
7) Most importantly - don't EVER take recreational drugs (dumb to anyway, whether you suffer from DP or not) - this is 100% sure to make the situation worse and completely mess you up anyway.

That's it. I know it was long and I hope it wasn't too depressing a read. As I had said, I am fine now and look back on it as a horrible memory. I am now 'mentally sorted', happy with a wonderful husband and family. There was a time when I believed I would never be happy again. I was lost, but now I am found.

'My will shall shape my future. Whether I fail or succeed shall be no man's doing but my own. I am the force; I can clear any obstacle before me or I can be lost in the maze. My choice; my responsibility; win or lose, only I hold the key to my destiny'.

(Elaine Maxwell)


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

G-funk, thank you so much for posting this. I have to say, I was VERY moved by Elaine's account as I have been suffering from marijuana-induced DR and other more physical problems for ten years now. I have read a few times that the key to getting over the DP/DR is to not think about it. This post has convinced me to give it a try.

-univesity girl


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

G-funk, thank you so much for posting this. I have to say, I was VERY moved by Elaine's account as I have been suffering from marijuana-induced DR and other more physical problems for ten years now. I have read a few times that the key to getting over the DP/DR is to not think about it. This post has convinced me to give it a try.

-univesity girl


----------



## laquw (Aug 26, 2004)

i actually spoke to elaine about this situation..shes the one who helped me recover and beat dp.. shes a nice girl to talk to , i would recommend talkign or emailing her if u can


----------



## laquw (Aug 26, 2004)

i actually spoke to elaine about this situation..shes the one who helped me recover and beat dp.. shes a nice girl to talk to , i would recommend talkign or emailing her if u can


----------



## DutchMark (Aug 10, 2004)

The key of getting over DP/DR is to not think about it! for me that's a fact and it has helped me GREAT. Just stop thinking about it, you didn't think about DP/DR when you weren't suffering from it  
But it takes a lot of effort to keep your mind of DP as often as possible


----------



## DutchMark (Aug 10, 2004)

The key of getting over DP/DR is to not think about it! for me that's a fact and it has helped me GREAT. Just stop thinking about it, you didn't think about DP/DR when you weren't suffering from it  
But it takes a lot of effort to keep your mind of DP as often as possible


----------



## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

how do you not think about it when you are walking along the road for example and there is no outside stimulis to take your awareness away from 'you'...i could be on my bike but i still think about 'me' as i feel so compelled to stay in this little bubble of mine


----------



## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

how do you not think about it when you are walking along the road for example and there is no outside stimulis to take your awareness away from 'you'...i could be on my bike but i still think about 'me' as i feel so compelled to stay in this little bubble of mine


----------



## laquw (Aug 26, 2004)

what helped me with the thoughts was boredom and repition. Most of my thoughts revolved around the same topics every day. I asked myself the same questions and it was getting so repetitive that I just tried to have an answer for each question I had. 
-- i kind of see it like a defense mechanism even if the answer is a lie. at least you are directing your thoughts elsewhere sort of like displacement.
For example: I am sure you ask yourself "who is God" "Does he exist" etc etc... just have an answer ready and believe it even if you are doubting... just make urself believe.. later on you wont ask yourself the same question..

this seems like a childish practice what I am showing but it really did help me even if i was lying to myself
-- but it took alot of training.. but you would catch on if you actually make an effort to do so.. its not gonna work ont he first shot, once you get the hang then you will see your thoughts slowing and slowing down.


----------



## laquw (Aug 26, 2004)

what helped me with the thoughts was boredom and repition. Most of my thoughts revolved around the same topics every day. I asked myself the same questions and it was getting so repetitive that I just tried to have an answer for each question I had. 
-- i kind of see it like a defense mechanism even if the answer is a lie. at least you are directing your thoughts elsewhere sort of like displacement.
For example: I am sure you ask yourself "who is God" "Does he exist" etc etc... just have an answer ready and believe it even if you are doubting... just make urself believe.. later on you wont ask yourself the same question..

this seems like a childish practice what I am showing but it really did help me even if i was lying to myself
-- but it took alot of training.. but you would catch on if you actually make an effort to do so.. its not gonna work ont he first shot, once you get the hang then you will see your thoughts slowing and slowing down.


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Well, as for "ADVICE" #4 (avoid triggers), I would have to become agorophobic to do this. It seems as soon as I leave my house visual derealization sets in.... In any case, I haven't become agorophobic yet but can definately understand how a dp'er can become agorophobic. I am about to leave my house to go to the grocery store. I will try to ignore the DP and stay very calm. Wonder if it will help. 

-university girl


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Well, as for "ADVICE" #4 (avoid triggers), I would have to become agorophobic to do this. It seems as soon as I leave my house visual derealization sets in.... In any case, I haven't become agorophobic yet but can definately understand how a dp'er can become agorophobic. I am about to leave my house to go to the grocery store. I will try to ignore the DP and stay very calm. Wonder if it will help. 

-university girl


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

I read this story before and she is one of the lucky ones. The thing i don't understand is even when im not thinking about it, i still feel weird. Can someone answer that one. Im just waiting for the day when someone tells me YOUR FUCKED! This is how your gonna be for the rest of your life! Not to mention i smoked alot more than 2 times. What i want to know is that, how come this whole DP/DR anxiety thing didn't come about when i first started smoking? why did it happen a few years later??? Im just a mess, im depressed & i feel weird. I don't like my life right now or where its going, I feel like im just existing & walking through life but not really giving a shit or enjoying it.

im just an existance


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

I read this story before and she is one of the lucky ones. The thing i don't understand is even when im not thinking about it, i still feel weird. Can someone answer that one. Im just waiting for the day when someone tells me YOUR FUCKED! This is how your gonna be for the rest of your life! Not to mention i smoked alot more than 2 times. What i want to know is that, how come this whole DP/DR anxiety thing didn't come about when i first started smoking? why did it happen a few years later??? Im just a mess, im depressed & i feel weird. I don't like my life right now or where its going, I feel like im just existing & walking through life but not really giving a shit or enjoying it.

im just an existance


----------



## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

i wish i didnt feel so unreal and aware of myself,i wish i had the capability of not giving a shit,ive lost my lust for life, but not giving a shit is something i strive for


----------



## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

i wish i didnt feel so unreal and aware of myself,i wish i had the capability of not giving a shit,ive lost my lust for life, but not giving a shit is something i strive for


----------



## sixtiessoul (Aug 10, 2004)

I had just about the same experience myself, indeed. I went to University up North in California (famous for cannabis), and had a REALLY negative experience. It was like how people describe LSD experiences...visions, time distortions, body distortions, flashing. etc. 6 weeks later, I couldn't fall back asleep after getting up to use the loo...and after waking up "just wasn't ME".

Not to go all chemical, because we all take it at different angles. For me, i took everyone's advice from every angle...but the one that was popular at the time. I was on massive amounts of drugs...let's see, to start, Ativan, Cartia, Depakote, Neurontin...and going to UCLA neurological, House Ear Clinic (both very famous indeed), for vertigo, blood tests, spinal taps, EEG's...etc, etc.

I thought i had "Minear's Disease" until I found Andy's Board, and cried myself silly. I've always taken DP/DR from a psychoBIOLOGICAL analysis, emphasizing the last...

Some things are superstitions, and some things DO help. Like I used to swear that if my chiropractor put me in the "right" setting, i'd be HEAPS better. So, given that nonsense... I found MY cure too...

From my own tally's and CONSTANT reading of Andy's Boards was the...

Klonopin (Clonazepam Benzodiazepam) / Celexa (SSRI) combo suggested by countless people, taken in my own comfortable levels. How did I obtain these drugs? I had a "very understanding, worldly" psychologist, and printed information from Andy's Boards, took it to him, and he said "Why not?". Thank GOD.

After a year or 2, I believe that the Celexa "balanced out" whatever chemical misfiring's that were happening...so after balancing out, I weeded down the medications one by one, starting with the most debhilitating...depakote...to finally Celexa, which i was TERRIFIED to give up. But I couldn't stand the weight gain. (50 lbs. overweight, watch out!).

Anyways! I would say after that, I've always been in the realms of 80-90% cured. The "constant" fear goes away, as long as I take my Klonopin, (down to a measly 0.5 - 1mg), and the Neurontin to think clearly.

New symptoms come and go...but that "black whole / fog / noticing a conversation happening TO you rather than participating" ceased, and I've functioned as a University student ever since.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## sixtiessoul (Aug 10, 2004)

I had just about the same experience myself, indeed. I went to University up North in California (famous for cannabis), and had a REALLY negative experience. It was like how people describe LSD experiences...visions, time distortions, body distortions, flashing. etc. 6 weeks later, I couldn't fall back asleep after getting up to use the loo...and after waking up "just wasn't ME".

Not to go all chemical, because we all take it at different angles. For me, i took everyone's advice from every angle...but the one that was popular at the time. I was on massive amounts of drugs...let's see, to start, Ativan, Cartia, Depakote, Neurontin...and going to UCLA neurological, House Ear Clinic (both very famous indeed), for vertigo, blood tests, spinal taps, EEG's...etc, etc.

I thought i had "Minear's Disease" until I found Andy's Board, and cried myself silly. I've always taken DP/DR from a psychoBIOLOGICAL analysis, emphasizing the last...

Some things are superstitions, and some things DO help. Like I used to swear that if my chiropractor put me in the "right" setting, i'd be HEAPS better. So, given that nonsense... I found MY cure too...

From my own tally's and CONSTANT reading of Andy's Boards was the...

Klonopin (Clonazepam Benzodiazepam) / Celexa (SSRI) combo suggested by countless people, taken in my own comfortable levels. How did I obtain these drugs? I had a "very understanding, worldly" psychologist, and printed information from Andy's Boards, took it to him, and he said "Why not?". Thank GOD.

After a year or 2, I believe that the Celexa "balanced out" whatever chemical misfiring's that were happening...so after balancing out, I weeded down the medications one by one, starting with the most debhilitating...depakote...to finally Celexa, which i was TERRIFIED to give up. But I couldn't stand the weight gain. (50 lbs. overweight, watch out!).

Anyways! I would say after that, I've always been in the realms of 80-90% cured. The "constant" fear goes away, as long as I take my Klonopin, (down to a measly 0.5 - 1mg), and the Neurontin to think clearly.

New symptoms come and go...but that "black whole / fog / noticing a conversation happening TO you rather than participating" ceased, and I've functioned as a University student ever since.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## nemesis (Aug 10, 2004)

The fog, the inability to organise your thoughts and be in the moment is in my opinion one of the worst symptoms of the disorder. It?s pleasing to know that it doesn?t appear to be permanent, and that some have regained function in this area.


----------



## nemesis (Aug 10, 2004)

The fog, the inability to organise your thoughts and be in the moment is in my opinion one of the worst symptoms of the disorder. It?s pleasing to know that it doesn?t appear to be permanent, and that some have regained function in this area.


----------



## DutchMark (Aug 10, 2004)

Well I can realy organazi my thoughts again since i'm on paxil, the fog is 95 % gone. I still have to work on obsessive thoughts. But i'm realy doing fine at the moment. I can't say someone is recovered when still on meds though, my goal is to be med-free and happy again


----------



## DutchMark (Aug 10, 2004)

Well I can realy organazi my thoughts again since i'm on paxil, the fog is 95 % gone. I still have to work on obsessive thoughts. But i'm realy doing fine at the moment. I can't say someone is recovered when still on meds though, my goal is to be med-free and happy again


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

What a GREAT story of hope and recovery!!! Thank you so much for sharing this! I wish the heading were different. I skipped this because I don't consider mine to have been canabis induced, although I have had that in the past but NOTHING like this time, after the birth of my 3rd baby. I was looking at posts by sixtiessoul and found this.

I have found that distraction has been very healing for me as well. I know how hard it is when you are suffering so badly. I think that is why the Klonipin or Xanex (benzo families) work so well. Those meds can calm your anxiety (which feeds the dp/dr) and help you to refocus.

As far as why some get this triggered when smoking only one joint or after have smoked a barge load for years, my personal experience is that pot always made me anxious. (I REALLY don't know why I smoked it time and again!) I would get really paranoid and tighten up so bad my jaw would hurt and my knees would feel all cramped up. My voice sounded funny...it wasn't ever really worth it. Yet I know some people that smoke pot to ease their anxiety. Go figure? I think it just shows again that we all have different chemical make-ups.

Carla


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

What a GREAT story of hope and recovery!!! Thank you so much for sharing this! I wish the heading were different. I skipped this because I don't consider mine to have been canabis induced, although I have had that in the past but NOTHING like this time, after the birth of my 3rd baby. I was looking at posts by sixtiessoul and found this.

I have found that distraction has been very healing for me as well. I know how hard it is when you are suffering so badly. I think that is why the Klonipin or Xanex (benzo families) work so well. Those meds can calm your anxiety (which feeds the dp/dr) and help you to refocus.

As far as why some get this triggered when smoking only one joint or after have smoked a barge load for years, my personal experience is that pot always made me anxious. (I REALLY don't know why I smoked it time and again!) I would get really paranoid and tighten up so bad my jaw would hurt and my knees would feel all cramped up. My voice sounded funny...it wasn't ever really worth it. Yet I know some people that smoke pot to ease their anxiety. Go figure? I think it just shows again that we all have different chemical make-ups.

Carla


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

i still got a great fear that it is permanent and that it won't get better.


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

i still got a great fear that it is permanent and that it won't get better.


----------



## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

i have the same fear. or obsession. could samebody give a word of reassure.

but soul brotha, we both have examples here of others who have cured from drug-induced dp. so we know it's possible, why wouldn't we belong to those.


----------



## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

i have the same fear. or obsession. could samebody give a word of reassure.

but soul brotha, we both have examples here of others who have cured from drug-induced dp. so we know it's possible, why wouldn't we belong to those.


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

i sure hope your right


----------



## Guest (Sep 8, 2004)

i sure hope your right


----------



## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

yea hope so too.


----------



## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

yea hope so too.


----------



## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i think about that alot. like why that j/pil/drink triggered dp. my reasonings got me this far:
some drugs fire more seratonin,like e/acid and so intense use of these can mess up that bit in your brain. other drugs stop the seratonin firing, like benzos/alcohol/cannabis? and so mess up that bit of the brain too. maybe longer term use just does it slowly. time +/or meds are then needed to sort it out
i really dont know. wish someone would have a go at explaining it


----------



## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

i think about that alot. like why that j/pil/drink triggered dp. my reasonings got me this far:
some drugs fire more seratonin,like e/acid and so intense use of these can mess up that bit in your brain. other drugs stop the seratonin firing, like benzos/alcohol/cannabis? and so mess up that bit of the brain too. maybe longer term use just does it slowly. time +/or meds are then needed to sort it out
i really dont know. wish someone would have a go at explaining it


----------



## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

also maybe something to do with gaba? dont really know what that is either


----------



## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

also maybe something to do with gaba? dont really know what that is either


----------



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Wtf is gaba?


----------



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Wtf is gaba?


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Wow. Reading Elaine's story is like reading my own. I can so easily remember how my DP started. I can remember the exact situation when I first slipped into it. I was 15 years old... laughing with friends smoking pot, laughing so hard..... and then in a moment...... I slipped into utter terror when my SELF had suddenly vanished, somewhere out there or in here or elsewhere..... 
It's been 23 years now, since it all started. I spent the first 22 years thinking I was the only person who had ever felt that way. I kept it all to myself. I would try to explain it to people, but I always felt weird and insane when I did. They just didn't understand it. I thought I was on the road to true enlightenment. Perhaps I was Buddha himself! I spent two decades reading books about the "self", basically obsessed with it. Actually, over the years I really didn't care much about DP, although I still was always DP'd. Basically, I felt that I had somehow transcended its terror, and looked at it philosophically. Basically, accepting that "self" is really an illusion. However, although I was accepting I was still obsessed with the idea of "self".
To be honest, to this day I'm not stressed out by DP, since I've learned to not let it control me after so many years thinking I was the only one with it. However, what is really bothering me the most is the DR. I'm trying not to obsess about IT.
Any advice on how to not be obsessed with a blatent visual disturbance? It's almost as if it's the aura one gets prior to a full blown migraine. In fact when I was younger I would focus so hard on the DR that I think it actually used to lead to a migraine. But I finally managed to stop obsessing on it that much. I wish I could just ignore DR. Help please. How do you ignore something that is there whenever you open your eyes?

thanks for the story G-funk


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Wow. Reading Elaine's story is like reading my own. I can so easily remember how my DP started. I can remember the exact situation when I first slipped into it. I was 15 years old... laughing with friends smoking pot, laughing so hard..... and then in a moment...... I slipped into utter terror when my SELF had suddenly vanished, somewhere out there or in here or elsewhere..... 
It's been 23 years now, since it all started. I spent the first 22 years thinking I was the only person who had ever felt that way. I kept it all to myself. I would try to explain it to people, but I always felt weird and insane when I did. They just didn't understand it. I thought I was on the road to true enlightenment. Perhaps I was Buddha himself! I spent two decades reading books about the "self", basically obsessed with it. Actually, over the years I really didn't care much about DP, although I still was always DP'd. Basically, I felt that I had somehow transcended its terror, and looked at it philosophically. Basically, accepting that "self" is really an illusion. However, although I was accepting I was still obsessed with the idea of "self".
To be honest, to this day I'm not stressed out by DP, since I've learned to not let it control me after so many years thinking I was the only one with it. However, what is really bothering me the most is the DR. I'm trying not to obsess about IT.
Any advice on how to not be obsessed with a blatent visual disturbance? It's almost as if it's the aura one gets prior to a full blown migraine. In fact when I was younger I would focus so hard on the DR that I think it actually used to lead to a migraine. But I finally managed to stop obsessing on it that much. I wish I could just ignore DR. Help please. How do you ignore something that is there whenever you open your eyes?

thanks for the story G-funk


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

DrPepper said:


> I wish I could just ignore DR. Help please. How do you ignore something that is there whenever you open your eyes?


I have the same question. When people tell me to try to forget about it, I say "It's like trying to forget about someone who's yelling in your ear all day. How do you do that?" I have to add that when I went out to the grocery store yesterday, a place which usually triggers big time DR, I practiced deep breathing the entire time and kept watch of my anxiety levels trying to decrease it each time it rose even a little. And, this time the visual derealization wasn't so bad! I will give it a shot next time too.  Oh, and my theory (and that of others) as to how drugs can trigger DP/DR is that normally once the drug is out of the system the body resets the altered neurobiology back to normal. Sometimes, for some unknown reason, the neurobiology does not 'reset'--> I am not sure why the 10th time I smoked pot is the time the DP/DR came about. Another theory is that the specific episode of drug use that brought about the DP/DR was in some way more anxiety-provoking or traumatic than other times, thus triggering the disorder (see Daphne Simeon's 2004 DP overview).

-university girl


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

DrPepper said:


> I wish I could just ignore DR. Help please. How do you ignore something that is there whenever you open your eyes?


I have the same question. When people tell me to try to forget about it, I say "It's like trying to forget about someone who's yelling in your ear all day. How do you do that?" I have to add that when I went out to the grocery store yesterday, a place which usually triggers big time DR, I practiced deep breathing the entire time and kept watch of my anxiety levels trying to decrease it each time it rose even a little. And, this time the visual derealization wasn't so bad! I will give it a shot next time too.  Oh, and my theory (and that of others) as to how drugs can trigger DP/DR is that normally once the drug is out of the system the body resets the altered neurobiology back to normal. Sometimes, for some unknown reason, the neurobiology does not 'reset'--> I am not sure why the 10th time I smoked pot is the time the DP/DR came about. Another theory is that the specific episode of drug use that brought about the DP/DR was in some way more anxiety-provoking or traumatic than other times, thus triggering the disorder (see Daphne Simeon's 2004 DP overview).

-university girl


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

Of course you can't "forget about it" - if anyone believes you can, they sure didn't have what I had.

The state we need to reach is not of "ignoring" it or "paying no attention to it" but of not observing/chronicaling oneself IN the state moment by moment.

Example: if you had a terrible flu, you couldn't just "ignore" your symptoms and go about your day. But the WAY you would experience them is very very different from how you might experience bad feelings if you'd just gotten home from the hospital after a major surgery. If you'd had triple bypass, everytime you were aware of your heart/chest for awhile, you would "tune in" to it - you would verify if this sensation or that sensation was normal, dangerous, lethal, mild, increasing, less tight, more tight, should you act on it?, should you tell someone, would it be better to lie down, or walk, or sit still..? You would, in short, be MONITORING your "heart related" experience. You'd be comparing the way you feel right now to how it felt two minutes ago, then you'd think "now...is that more constriction? that feels a little better...maybe that's better....there, that's more tightness again..."

Your thinking/perceptions of life would be Heart-Centered for awhile. Understandably so.

But back to the flu - you'd feel like death, and you'd grumble a bit, and then you'd TRY as hard as possible to focus on something else. You'd read or sleep or watch TV. You'd try to do something WHILE you were feeling flu-like rather than tune into "flu-ness" and watch yourself experience it, evaluating your take on it minute by minute.

That's what I mean by focus elsewhere. You can't ignore it, but you will only make it MUCH more intense by tuning into it. If you stand any chance of your brain "resetting itself" it will happen when you're in "flu" mode, not in "is this another heart attack" mode.

That all said, I related entirely to Elaine's story, too. And my dp/dr came on with NO drug use. Nobody will convince me that canabis-induced dp is anything other than DP (that happened to arrive when they person was under the altered state of canabis). Whatever "freaks" out the mind, or threatens its sense of reality is what causes us to depersonalize. It's something the mind DOES - it's an active thing - WE depersonalize, it's not something that happens TO our brain. It's something the mind does in response to triggers that threaten the status quo of self.

I do believe there are certain physical visual disturbances that fall under that HPPD category - light trails, after images, etc. but derealization is a horror that does NOT require any drug use to reach. I had such overwhelming DR for years and never had taken a single toke of pot or a single rec drug.

Peace,
J


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

Of course you can't "forget about it" - if anyone believes you can, they sure didn't have what I had.

The state we need to reach is not of "ignoring" it or "paying no attention to it" but of not observing/chronicaling oneself IN the state moment by moment.

Example: if you had a terrible flu, you couldn't just "ignore" your symptoms and go about your day. But the WAY you would experience them is very very different from how you might experience bad feelings if you'd just gotten home from the hospital after a major surgery. If you'd had triple bypass, everytime you were aware of your heart/chest for awhile, you would "tune in" to it - you would verify if this sensation or that sensation was normal, dangerous, lethal, mild, increasing, less tight, more tight, should you act on it?, should you tell someone, would it be better to lie down, or walk, or sit still..? You would, in short, be MONITORING your "heart related" experience. You'd be comparing the way you feel right now to how it felt two minutes ago, then you'd think "now...is that more constriction? that feels a little better...maybe that's better....there, that's more tightness again..."

Your thinking/perceptions of life would be Heart-Centered for awhile. Understandably so.

But back to the flu - you'd feel like death, and you'd grumble a bit, and then you'd TRY as hard as possible to focus on something else. You'd read or sleep or watch TV. You'd try to do something WHILE you were feeling flu-like rather than tune into "flu-ness" and watch yourself experience it, evaluating your take on it minute by minute.

That's what I mean by focus elsewhere. You can't ignore it, but you will only make it MUCH more intense by tuning into it. If you stand any chance of your brain "resetting itself" it will happen when you're in "flu" mode, not in "is this another heart attack" mode.

That all said, I related entirely to Elaine's story, too. And my dp/dr came on with NO drug use. Nobody will convince me that canabis-induced dp is anything other than DP (that happened to arrive when they person was under the altered state of canabis). Whatever "freaks" out the mind, or threatens its sense of reality is what causes us to depersonalize. It's something the mind DOES - it's an active thing - WE depersonalize, it's not something that happens TO our brain. It's something the mind does in response to triggers that threaten the status quo of self.

I do believe there are certain physical visual disturbances that fall under that HPPD category - light trails, after images, etc. but derealization is a horror that does NOT require any drug use to reach. I had such overwhelming DR for years and never had taken a single toke of pot or a single rec drug.

Peace,
J


----------



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

In my opinion, I think that once you have experienced it and you are frightened by it, and you know how to create the feeling again its really hard not to do it. Especially as you can't help replaying the memory in your head of how it feels. I don't think that cannabis would cause a permanent change in our chemical make up, though I could be totally wrong, its more like Elaine says, we tune in to it. That part of our brain has opened up, and its hard not to use it. I think that subconsciously, if you smoke a joint and get dp, you think that it has been caused by a drug, so is therefore irreversible.And you believe that if it was caused by emotion, it can be reversed. I really don't think cannabis could do that, I think you are convinced you are not able to get better because it was drug induced. This subconscious thought is holding you back. I believe recovery is the same for both scenarios. Does that make sense?!


----------



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

In my opinion, I think that once you have experienced it and you are frightened by it, and you know how to create the feeling again its really hard not to do it. Especially as you can't help replaying the memory in your head of how it feels. I don't think that cannabis would cause a permanent change in our chemical make up, though I could be totally wrong, its more like Elaine says, we tune in to it. That part of our brain has opened up, and its hard not to use it. I think that subconsciously, if you smoke a joint and get dp, you think that it has been caused by a drug, so is therefore irreversible.And you believe that if it was caused by emotion, it can be reversed. I really don't think cannabis could do that, I think you are convinced you are not able to get better because it was drug induced. This subconscious thought is holding you back. I believe recovery is the same for both scenarios. Does that make sense?!


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

"That part of our brain opened up and it's hard not to use it"

that, in a nutshell, is it. Absolutely. Think about how incredible it is - what we're asking ourselves to do - we are trying to INTENTIONALLY CHANGE our human state of consciousness at will. Of COURSE recovery is hard. Of COURSE it feels impossible.

And after 18 yrs. of it, I never succeeded in "willing" myself to change my state of consciousness either. The key was in finding a way (the analytic therapy, for me) to so significantly alter one's thinking, or shake up one's thinking again, to minimize anxiety levels at their source, that you can allow your mind to reset itself (and hence, to RE-alter its state of conscious experience)

And I'm sure that's true, that drug-induced dp feels hopeless, as if the drug "DID" something to the brain. But I also thought something had happened TO my brain (even without any rec drug as cause). I was positive something was WRONG inside my actual brain cells. There had to be. My entire sense of reality, of how it felt to be a living human, and of how the entire world looked, all of it had shifted in an INSTANT. Of COURSE that was brain damage or a hideous illness that had "burned out" part of my neurons or something.

Nope.

Nuthin like that.

I'm right here, right now, without a single brain oddity. Totally clear and normal sense of self and the world around me. NOBODY could ever have told me that was still possible.

Peace,
J


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

"That part of our brain opened up and it's hard not to use it"

that, in a nutshell, is it. Absolutely. Think about how incredible it is - what we're asking ourselves to do - we are trying to INTENTIONALLY CHANGE our human state of consciousness at will. Of COURSE recovery is hard. Of COURSE it feels impossible.

And after 18 yrs. of it, I never succeeded in "willing" myself to change my state of consciousness either. The key was in finding a way (the analytic therapy, for me) to so significantly alter one's thinking, or shake up one's thinking again, to minimize anxiety levels at their source, that you can allow your mind to reset itself (and hence, to RE-alter its state of conscious experience)

And I'm sure that's true, that drug-induced dp feels hopeless, as if the drug "DID" something to the brain. But I also thought something had happened TO my brain (even without any rec drug as cause). I was positive something was WRONG inside my actual brain cells. There had to be. My entire sense of reality, of how it felt to be a living human, and of how the entire world looked, all of it had shifted in an INSTANT. Of COURSE that was brain damage or a hideous illness that had "burned out" part of my neurons or something.

Nope.

Nuthin like that.

I'm right here, right now, without a single brain oddity. Totally clear and normal sense of self and the world around me. NOBODY could ever have told me that was still possible.

Peace,
J


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

i just want it to end


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

i just want it to end


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Excellent comments guys, g-funk, university g. Thanks again, Janine.

Well, I think I may have basically taken DP and DR as part of my personality after so many years, assuming I was permanently damaged or a budding guru. Not knowing what its cause was for so long. Never being properly diagnosed. When I was 15 I went to a psychologist and she obviously knew that I was suffering from anxiety yet she never told me. She only told me to read "love is letting go of fear" and that it was a normal thing for adolescents, but she never once told me what was causing my symptoms. I thought she had no idea what was really going on and just told me something to try and calm me down. I knew I had REALLY lost myself and she was just being non-chalant about it. She apparently knew, but she didn't tell me anything in a way I understood it. She just said don't worry it would go away. So, when I went to subsequent doctors to try and get my "vision" problems (20 years I find out it's related to my "loss of self", dp, and actually has a name called DR, my god.... you know where this is going. I saw probably 10 doctors as an adolescent. One doctor told me the pot must have been laced! So, what was he saying? Well, he never told me that I wasn't permanently damaged. I assumed I probably was. Every doctor I saw just seemed to shrug my problem off and acted like there wasn't much to be done. After seeing that psychologist I had set a deadline for when I was going to end it all. (I later chickened out after extending the deadline several times) It was like she was some sort of priest with secret knowledge and was only there to prescribe remedies, in this case a book.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Excellent comments guys, g-funk, university g. Thanks again, Janine.

Well, I think I may have basically taken DP and DR as part of my personality after so many years, assuming I was permanently damaged or a budding guru. Not knowing what its cause was for so long. Never being properly diagnosed. When I was 15 I went to a psychologist and she obviously knew that I was suffering from anxiety yet she never told me. She only told me to read "love is letting go of fear" and that it was a normal thing for adolescents, but she never once told me what was causing my symptoms. I thought she had no idea what was really going on and just told me something to try and calm me down. I knew I had REALLY lost myself and she was just being non-chalant about it. She apparently knew, but she didn't tell me anything in a way I understood it. She just said don't worry it would go away. So, when I went to subsequent doctors to try and get my "vision" problems (20 years I find out it's related to my "loss of self", dp, and actually has a name called DR, my god.... you know where this is going. I saw probably 10 doctors as an adolescent. One doctor told me the pot must have been laced! So, what was he saying? Well, he never told me that I wasn't permanently damaged. I assumed I probably was. Every doctor I saw just seemed to shrug my problem off and acted like there wasn't much to be done. After seeing that psychologist I had set a deadline for when I was going to end it all. (I later chickened out after extending the deadline several times) It was like she was some sort of priest with secret knowledge and was only there to prescribe remedies, in this case a book.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I just remembered something. That psychologist even told me that I could probably smoke pot again some day! Well I tried it five times after that, and every time I had a serious panic attack. I only kept trying it because I thought I had to learn to deal with it. I kept thinking if I can smoke pot and not be afraid I'll have the my-self-is-gone thing licked. Well, it was too hard. The last time it was so bad I kept hallucinating that my body was out of my control and that I was going to find some way to kill myself. Now I see it was just a extremely severe panic attack. I would subsequently hyperventilate and pass out. I wasn't really losing control of my body. I was just so scared that I thought I was going to.

Fact: Pot can induce severe panic attacks in some people. As a result it can induce DP and DR. Combine DP and DR with hallucinations and you might feel quite psychotic.

Had to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening (reading).


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I just remembered something. That psychologist even told me that I could probably smoke pot again some day! Well I tried it five times after that, and every time I had a serious panic attack. I only kept trying it because I thought I had to learn to deal with it. I kept thinking if I can smoke pot and not be afraid I'll have the my-self-is-gone thing licked. Well, it was too hard. The last time it was so bad I kept hallucinating that my body was out of my control and that I was going to find some way to kill myself. Now I see it was just a extremely severe panic attack. I would subsequently hyperventilate and pass out. I wasn't really losing control of my body. I was just so scared that I thought I was going to.

Fact: Pot can induce severe panic attacks in some people. As a result it can induce DP and DR. Combine DP and DR with hallucinations and you might feel quite psychotic.

Had to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening (reading).


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

DrPepper, that makes alot of sense and i guess im kind of in the same boat that you were.

Anxious person + lots of weed = panic attacks which than = DP/DR or the current misery that im living in.

ONLY if someone told me what weed can do!


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

DrPepper, that makes alot of sense and i guess im kind of in the same boat that you were.

Anxious person + lots of weed = panic attacks which than = DP/DR or the current misery that im living in.

ONLY if someone told me what weed can do!


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

You know... for 24 years I've always felt just a click away from returning to the way things were. I thought wouldn't it be great if one day I look up at the sky and there is nothing between me and it, but air.

God, I love talking to you guys, because I can say everything I've wanted to say for years, but couldn't for fear of being burned at the stake.

I can say things to you and all I get is nods! uh-huh... yep... know what ya mean, man.... right there with you, dude. I love it!!!

When I told people this stuff in 1980 when if first happened they'd just quickly change the subject or quickly dismiss themselves. My "cool" friends would just laugh and say, "cool dude. you're like gonna be high forever". Man, I wanted to strangle those guys.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

You know... for 24 years I've always felt just a click away from returning to the way things were. I thought wouldn't it be great if one day I look up at the sky and there is nothing between me and it, but air.

God, I love talking to you guys, because I can say everything I've wanted to say for years, but couldn't for fear of being burned at the stake.

I can say things to you and all I get is nods! uh-huh... yep... know what ya mean, man.... right there with you, dude. I love it!!!

When I told people this stuff in 1980 when if first happened they'd just quickly change the subject or quickly dismiss themselves. My "cool" friends would just laugh and say, "cool dude. you're like gonna be high forever". Man, I wanted to strangle those guys.


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

DrPepper said:


> My "cool" friends would just laugh and say, "cool dude. you're like gonna be high forever". Man, I wanted to strangle those guys.


  This post made me smile.


----------



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

DrPepper said:


> My "cool" friends would just laugh and say, "cool dude. you're like gonna be high forever". Man, I wanted to strangle those guys.


  This post made me smile.


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

Dr Pepper about how much weed did you smoke? I mean like how often? For how long etc??

me myself, i probably smoked more than enough for everyone on this website.


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

Dr Pepper about how much weed did you smoke? I mean like how often? For how long etc??

me myself, i probably smoked more than enough for everyone on this website.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I smoked for about a year. I'd say I'd share a couple of bowls or a joint with a friend or two about three times a week on average. Not that heavily, really.

What's strange is that all previous highs were quite "normal" highs. they were very pleasant.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I smoked for about a year. I'd say I'd share a couple of bowls or a joint with a friend or two about three times a week on average. Not that heavily, really.

What's strange is that all previous highs were quite "normal" highs. they were very pleasant.


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

^ man i know exactly what you mean, they are pleasent until you have that one BAD HIGH, than it all just goes down hill from there.

I had a very very very strange high once, i think i even hallucinated a littlle. After that i should have quit, but of course like an idiot i didn't. I want to say it was laced, but it was MY WEED & we smoked it out of a bowl, so thats impossible.


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

^ man i know exactly what you mean, they are pleasent until you have that one BAD HIGH, than it all just goes down hill from there.

I had a very very very strange high once, i think i even hallucinated a littlle. After that i should have quit, but of course like an idiot i didn't. I want to say it was laced, but it was MY WEED & we smoked it out of a bowl, so thats impossible.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Yeah, that's the thing. I really believed the first one must have been laced with something, but then after trying again over the years about 5 times there was no change. Certainly it's not laced every time I try it. 

You know what? I find it just plain strange no matter what induced it. And I find it even stranger that it could happen so quickly and then in some cases, such as mine, remain constant for decades.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

Yeah, that's the thing. I really believed the first one must have been laced with something, but then after trying again over the years about 5 times there was no change. Certainly it's not laced every time I try it. 

You know what? I find it just plain strange no matter what induced it. And I find it even stranger that it could happen so quickly and then in some cases, such as mine, remain constant for decades.


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

How long does it take to fall asleep?

One second.

One second you're awake (albeit sleepy and a little drifty) and the next second you're asleep.

Altered states of consciousness don't take "time." They occur in literally a split second.

The closest thing you rec drug guys can find to dp is the altered state of being high. But dp is NOT from a drug. It's a purely human brain experience, yes, HORRIBLE and yes, pathological, but I never did a drug, and I had exactly the instantaneous split into unreality that everyone of you describe.

Peace,
Janine


----------



## Guest (Sep 9, 2004)

How long does it take to fall asleep?

One second.

One second you're awake (albeit sleepy and a little drifty) and the next second you're asleep.

Altered states of consciousness don't take "time." They occur in literally a split second.

The closest thing you rec drug guys can find to dp is the altered state of being high. But dp is NOT from a drug. It's a purely human brain experience, yes, HORRIBLE and yes, pathological, but I never did a drug, and I had exactly the instantaneous split into unreality that everyone of you describe.

Peace,
Janine


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I don't know what it would be like to NOT self-monitor. I'm either doing something and not noticing myself OR I'm self-monitoring and noticing I'm in a sort of dream-state. I want to be able to observe my environment without feeling like I'm looking through a bubble. I want to look at a person and see that that person is in the same space I'm in.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

I don't know what it would be like to NOT self-monitor. I'm either doing something and not noticing myself OR I'm self-monitoring and noticing I'm in a sort of dream-state. I want to be able to observe my environment without feeling like I'm looking through a bubble. I want to look at a person and see that that person is in the same space I'm in.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

apparently, our conversation is becoming therapeutic for me. Today for the first time in over 20 years I almost saw things in sort of 3D for a second. It seemed a bit too much, I got excited and maybe a little scared and jumped back into my usual state of derealization "movie" mode.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

apparently, our conversation is becoming therapeutic for me. Today for the first time in over 20 years I almost saw things in sort of 3D for a second. It seemed a bit too much, I got excited and maybe a little scared and jumped back into my usual state of derealization "movie" mode.


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Thank you for posting such a positive story - it is so reassuring to read this. Especially from my perspective as I developed DP after a bad experience with cannabis. I think for everyone who experiences this condtion gets a lift from such accounts. I have started saving all of the positive stories that I come across and am going to try and force my mind to only look back at those. It can all gets a bit too much otherwise - with my over-analytical and over-aware mind!!

Thanks again

Liz


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Thank you for posting such a positive story - it is so reassuring to read this. Especially from my perspective as I developed DP after a bad experience with cannabis. I think for everyone who experiences this condtion gets a lift from such accounts. I have started saving all of the positive stories that I come across and am going to try and force my mind to only look back at those. It can all gets a bit too much otherwise - with my over-analytical and over-aware mind!!

Thanks again

Liz


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

I have been reading these forums for the last couple of months. I have never summoned up the courage to add a post - I think that because I have become so anxious about the whole issue. Now I have done it I feel pretty good - like I have almost taken the next step to face these feelings.

I am amazed at how much knowledge there is out there now - I first developed DP in 1991 - when I was 18. It was the result of inhaling a joint and holding my breath for ages!  Seemed like a great idea at the time - little did I know what it would lead to ... a huge, mind blowing panic attack and then the next day derealisation :shock: . Seemed a bit harsh considering it was the 3rd joint I had ever smoked! The horror was not just the strange feeling but also the inability for anyone to explain/help/diagnose what I was going through. I went to university, the alcohol flowed and this along with a steely attitude that I was going to get on and was not going to be different to the others - I somehow learnt to live with it.

I believe that is has subsided over the years and peaked during hangovers (love drinking though!) :twisted: , outdoors in daylight and when driving. I have been experiencing DP more dramatically for the last year - which has coincided with a bereavement and depression. The bl**dy thing just hangs around making me question nearly everything and monitoring how I feel  .

It is fascinating to read other people's accounts - even though at sometimes I freak myself out! I am amazed with how many people I can now relate to. It is also very interesting to hear stories of others who developed this without drug use - I find this comforting as I have always been concerned that the cannabis somehow blew part of my brain up! That's the problem as well with it - not only is it so scary but you do not get stuctural help from many medical professionals - it almost forces you to become investigative to discover your condition.

Anyhow, I will stop banging on now (!) I have been holding this in for a while (13 years!). One thing I have somehow managed to hang on to is humour - one of the few emotions that I do not analyse (bet I can now start though!). God knows how, but this along with positive accounts and good coping advice is vital.

Lots of strength and love to you all.

P.S. I totally want to empathise with Dr Pepper's sentiments below. I would like to twat them one.

DrPepper wrote: 
My "cool" friends would just laugh and say, "cool dude. you're like gonna be high forever". Man, I wanted to strangle those guys.


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

I have been reading these forums for the last couple of months. I have never summoned up the courage to add a post - I think that because I have become so anxious about the whole issue. Now I have done it I feel pretty good - like I have almost taken the next step to face these feelings.

I am amazed at how much knowledge there is out there now - I first developed DP in 1991 - when I was 18. It was the result of inhaling a joint and holding my breath for ages!  Seemed like a great idea at the time - little did I know what it would lead to ... a huge, mind blowing panic attack and then the next day derealisation :shock: . Seemed a bit harsh considering it was the 3rd joint I had ever smoked! The horror was not just the strange feeling but also the inability for anyone to explain/help/diagnose what I was going through. I went to university, the alcohol flowed and this along with a steely attitude that I was going to get on and was not going to be different to the others - I somehow learnt to live with it.

I believe that is has subsided over the years and peaked during hangovers (love drinking though!) :twisted: , outdoors in daylight and when driving. I have been experiencing DP more dramatically for the last year - which has coincided with a bereavement and depression. The bl**dy thing just hangs around making me question nearly everything and monitoring how I feel  .

It is fascinating to read other people's accounts - even though at sometimes I freak myself out! I am amazed with how many people I can now relate to. It is also very interesting to hear stories of others who developed this without drug use - I find this comforting as I have always been concerned that the cannabis somehow blew part of my brain up! That's the problem as well with it - not only is it so scary but you do not get stuctural help from many medical professionals - it almost forces you to become investigative to discover your condition.

Anyhow, I will stop banging on now (!) I have been holding this in for a while (13 years!). One thing I have somehow managed to hang on to is humour - one of the few emotions that I do not analyse (bet I can now start though!). God knows how, but this along with positive accounts and good coping advice is vital.

Lots of strength and love to you all.

P.S. I totally want to empathise with Dr Pepper's sentiments below. I would like to twat them one.

DrPepper wrote: 
My "cool" friends would just laugh and say, "cool dude. you're like gonna be high forever". Man, I wanted to strangle those guys.


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Me again! I have just realised that probably a lot of you are Americans and a couple of the words I have used probably have quite a different meaning - apologies!  I am English - the other Brits out there will understand what I meant!


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Me again! I have just realised that probably a lot of you are Americans and a couple of the words I have used probably have quite a different meaning - apologies!  I am English - the other Brits out there will understand what I meant!


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Dear Lizzy,
Welcome! And very glad you've posted!

Listen, kid...we have so many Aussies and Brits on this site that I (New Yorker) have started using "spot on!" in my daily vocabulary.

Foreigners. Sheesh.

grin
Glad you're here!
Peace,
Janine


----------



## Guest (Sep 19, 2004)

Dear Lizzy,
Welcome! And very glad you've posted!

Listen, kid...we have so many Aussies and Brits on this site that I (New Yorker) have started using "spot on!" in my daily vocabulary.

Foreigners. Sheesh.

grin
Glad you're here!
Peace,
Janine


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

lizzyg,

I don't know how to say this in a way that sounds nice so I'll just say it. I'm American but have lived in England for 2-1/2 years and I'm really glad there are people living here that can relate to me.  You see I knew it wouldn't sound good. Anyway, it was so hard at first. As you know it is really strange in our state of mind (and vision) so being in another country poses all kinds of challenges. It increased my doubt about how I was appearing to others. Especially, after this one guy asked me if I had smoked a lot of pot in my life! I thought, OH NO, I wonder how they see me.


----------



## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

lizzyg,

I don't know how to say this in a way that sounds nice so I'll just say it. I'm American but have lived in England for 2-1/2 years and I'm really glad there are people living here that can relate to me.  You see I knew it wouldn't sound good. Anyway, it was so hard at first. As you know it is really strange in our state of mind (and vision) so being in another country poses all kinds of challenges. It increased my doubt about how I was appearing to others. Especially, after this one guy asked me if I had smoked a lot of pot in my life! I thought, OH NO, I wonder how they see me.


----------



## sixtiessoul (Aug 10, 2004)

I believe what "forgetting it" means to me...is that you take a medication that sorts you out, something to lean on. Alot of people lean on friends, psychatrists, these boards, the advice and hopes of people who are "cured", or some such...which I know I'd never be able to do, cos i rely way too much on my Klonopin (which i know is a bad thing, but it makes me feel like the world isn't 'through the looking glass')...

So, you find something to lean on, and then you try to go on about your daily life. If you obsess about this, and let this thing consume you, it's rather like how I am right now...being left by my girlfriend. You can die from it, just like from heartbreak, you really can, if you let yourself. You can sink lower and lower, until you're not living your life.

Of course it's easier to say out of sight out of mind...but it is possible to distract yourself if you have something to lean upon. I swear it's possible.

It's just that for me, hope is not enough, and all the tens' of twenty drugs i USED to be on made me TOO sedated. So i'm somewhat "comfortable" where I'm at...

You can "forget" it, it's just a pain when you realize you've forgotten it, cos well...then you've remembered, and that sucks.

haha

night all.


----------



## sixtiessoul (Aug 10, 2004)

I believe what "forgetting it" means to me...is that you take a medication that sorts you out, something to lean on. Alot of people lean on friends, psychatrists, these boards, the advice and hopes of people who are "cured", or some such...which I know I'd never be able to do, cos i rely way too much on my Klonopin (which i know is a bad thing, but it makes me feel like the world isn't 'through the looking glass')...

So, you find something to lean on, and then you try to go on about your daily life. If you obsess about this, and let this thing consume you, it's rather like how I am right now...being left by my girlfriend. You can die from it, just like from heartbreak, you really can, if you let yourself. You can sink lower and lower, until you're not living your life.

Of course it's easier to say out of sight out of mind...but it is possible to distract yourself if you have something to lean upon. I swear it's possible.

It's just that for me, hope is not enough, and all the tens' of twenty drugs i USED to be on made me TOO sedated. So i'm somewhat "comfortable" where I'm at...

You can "forget" it, it's just a pain when you realize you've forgotten it, cos well...then you've remembered, and that sucks.

haha

night all.


----------



## Guest (Sep 20, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your lovely and interesting replies. I agree with SO MANY comments that you have made and especially the bits about people here just understand - I have felt until this year that I was the only person in the world with this! I have made contact with a girl in London - I will introduce her to this discussion - we have been on messenger for so long on the last day tellign our stories - almost identical - one bad trip - and really weirdly - in the same place - but mine happened 6 years before hers. Both at a resevoir in a small village in Sussex!

I have really enjoyed listening to your ideas/experiences about why this has happened to us. Thank you all and Janine - it is so comforting to hear you talk so positively about your recovery - it's what I really, really need to hear - and I am sure all of you guys are exactly the same. Janine I am sure you have posted your approach a million times but could you point me in the right direction of how you worked through this. I know it may not work for me but I am bl**dy well going to give it a go!

The visual derealisation for me is the most freaky - much worse when in natural light. Does anyone have some theory about why this is? I saw that University Girl and Dr Pepper both mentioned this. Unfortunately, I have been aware that I have become slighly agoraphobic because I hate it so much. I can be pottering about in the house/office and then pop outside and wham! - Back on that high again - this then gets me down - bit of a spiral unfortunately.

Anyhow, I am going to do some exercise as I feel so much better after - just always an effort getting there!!


----------



## Guest (Sep 20, 2004)

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your lovely and interesting replies. I agree with SO MANY comments that you have made and especially the bits about people here just understand - I have felt until this year that I was the only person in the world with this! I have made contact with a girl in London - I will introduce her to this discussion - we have been on messenger for so long on the last day tellign our stories - almost identical - one bad trip - and really weirdly - in the same place - but mine happened 6 years before hers. Both at a resevoir in a small village in Sussex!

I have really enjoyed listening to your ideas/experiences about why this has happened to us. Thank you all and Janine - it is so comforting to hear you talk so positively about your recovery - it's what I really, really need to hear - and I am sure all of you guys are exactly the same. Janine I am sure you have posted your approach a million times but could you point me in the right direction of how you worked through this. I know it may not work for me but I am bl**dy well going to give it a go!

The visual derealisation for me is the most freaky - much worse when in natural light. Does anyone have some theory about why this is? I saw that University Girl and Dr Pepper both mentioned this. Unfortunately, I have been aware that I have become slighly agoraphobic because I hate it so much. I can be pottering about in the house/office and then pop outside and wham! - Back on that high again - this then gets me down - bit of a spiral unfortunately.

Anyhow, I am going to do some exercise as I feel so much better after - just always an effort getting there!!


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

You know, sometimes I think my recovery from DR was due to my inherent selfishness. Not in the general 'selfish to other people way', because I don't think (even it my moments of crippling self-loathing), that I'm more selfish than average. What I mean is that I am, and always have been, so utterly selfishly determined not to miss out on life, and all the adventures (good and bad) that there are to be had, that the DR was always fighting a losing battle to keep. In the end, it really didn't have a chance...I was too angry at walking around in a dream and not enjoying what I alway had done, and the fear and restriction that DR brings to potential happyness.

So perhaps it's not a matter of will and determination in my case at all, like I used to think...perhaps us hedonistic selfish bohemian bastards like myself have an easier ride....with, of course, a little luck and a lot of support.

Interesting thought meythinks - how many of you consider yourselves (pre-DP) hedonistic....even in the mildest sense of the word. I think a streak of recklessness and mindless spontinaiety might even be beneficial to mental health. What you reckon ?


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

You know, sometimes I think my recovery from DR was due to my inherent selfishness. Not in the general 'selfish to other people way', because I don't think (even it my moments of crippling self-loathing), that I'm more selfish than average. What I mean is that I am, and always have been, so utterly selfishly determined not to miss out on life, and all the adventures (good and bad) that there are to be had, that the DR was always fighting a losing battle to keep. In the end, it really didn't have a chance...I was too angry at walking around in a dream and not enjoying what I alway had done, and the fear and restriction that DR brings to potential happyness.

So perhaps it's not a matter of will and determination in my case at all, like I used to think...perhaps us hedonistic selfish bohemian bastards like myself have an easier ride....with, of course, a little luck and a lot of support.

Interesting thought meythinks - how many of you consider yourselves (pre-DP) hedonistic....even in the mildest sense of the word. I think a streak of recklessness and mindless spontinaiety might even be beneficial to mental health. What you reckon ?


----------



## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

the trouble ive had is not so much selfishness but my arrogence towards people that are trying to help me,ive been brought up and been told that i have to deal with my own problems,and that is precisely what i do ,apart from asking advice on this forum ......
i visited my sister yesterday for the first time in 3 weeks and she recently sent me an email asking if im ok and had i 'lost the plot' yet....when i confronted her with this she said 'well your on your own and we havnt heard from you' i just said 'well im sorry but i dont have to depend on people all of the time' this sounds cruel but i feel that although they might be showing a concern i think it makes them feel better in themselves thinking that i might be the needy one,you know 'good old john he was the strong one,no he needs US !'

sorry if this post has nothing to do with the topic title i havnt managed to read any of the posts


----------



## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

the trouble ive had is not so much selfishness but my arrogence towards people that are trying to help me,ive been brought up and been told that i have to deal with my own problems,and that is precisely what i do ,apart from asking advice on this forum ......
i visited my sister yesterday for the first time in 3 weeks and she recently sent me an email asking if im ok and had i 'lost the plot' yet....when i confronted her with this she said 'well your on your own and we havnt heard from you' i just said 'well im sorry but i dont have to depend on people all of the time' this sounds cruel but i feel that although they might be showing a concern i think it makes them feel better in themselves thinking that i might be the needy one,you know 'good old john he was the strong one,no he needs US !'

sorry if this post has nothing to do with the topic title i havnt managed to read any of the posts


----------



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I would agree with you Martin, Des (I think its Des) says the way he got rid of Dp, amongst other things, was to just do, not think, act spontaneously, without analysing everything and I agree but its very tough. that way, you know what you are doing isn't contrived, its straight from the heart. Which is the complete opposite of how we act with dp, we anaylse things so much that in the end we get dp'd and then find ourselves carrying out tasks in an automaton way. You get up and clean your teeth because you have to. 
By nature I am definitely hedonistic. Much more so when well out of dp and no analysing is going on. Reckless too, maybe, but that's all part of the fun. I am also the same as you, I have such a determination to live life happily, and I do love life, I am very lucky, and I'll eat my hat if this dp is going stop me from living my life. There is no option for me, I will get better, and that is what drives me on every day. Even the days when all I can do is sit and do nothing. 
In fact dp has in a way made me less scared of things I would normally be scared of, mainly because well, we have all seen fear up close and nothing, not anything in this world can compare to that. Skydiving seems like a walk in the park.


----------



## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I would agree with you Martin, Des (I think its Des) says the way he got rid of Dp, amongst other things, was to just do, not think, act spontaneously, without analysing everything and I agree but its very tough. that way, you know what you are doing isn't contrived, its straight from the heart. Which is the complete opposite of how we act with dp, we anaylse things so much that in the end we get dp'd and then find ourselves carrying out tasks in an automaton way. You get up and clean your teeth because you have to. 
By nature I am definitely hedonistic. Much more so when well out of dp and no analysing is going on. Reckless too, maybe, but that's all part of the fun. I am also the same as you, I have such a determination to live life happily, and I do love life, I am very lucky, and I'll eat my hat if this dp is going stop me from living my life. There is no option for me, I will get better, and that is what drives me on every day. Even the days when all I can do is sit and do nothing. 
In fact dp has in a way made me less scared of things I would normally be scared of, mainly because well, we have all seen fear up close and nothing, not anything in this world can compare to that. Skydiving seems like a walk in the park.


----------

