# Elle DP Article Out NOW. Discussion, Read, Join In!



## Dreamer

Dear Folks,

*After having near heart failure after seeing the issue, I can tell you that the article on DP is in Elle Magazine, and I just bought 4 copies at Barnes & Noble.* :shock:

I think it's a good step in the right direction re: getting info out there. It is a substantial article, and yes, that's me they're talking about at the beginning, God Help Me.

Many well-known physicians/researchers are interviewed -- Most important, Dr. Daphne Simeon from Mt. Sinai is interviewed in more depth. There is also an amazing collection of other folks who have their own interpretation of what DP is. The confusion is out there, as much as it is here.

*It is NOT an article with all the answers, it is an article that some people may sit up and take notice of -- other sufferers may see themselves in there. My biggest concern/complaint is an implication that it might be an "illness du jour" ... and damnit it's not. If it were, those of us in our late forties and upwards jumped on the bandwagon rather early. And again, the internet, different diagnostic techniques, etc. have changed things over the years.

IMPORTANT HERE is this article was written, that it is in a popular magazine. I have to pinch myself.*

Encouraging is mention of Harris Goldberg's upcoming film "Numb" with Matthew Perry about a struggling screenwriter (Harris Goldberg) w/depersonalization.

There is an interesting note that the majority of people with DP are anxious. The OCD connection is also mentioned. Many theories are discussed.

OK, how to find the mag, (and the article buried in a HUGE pile of fashion photos):

1. April, 2007 issue of "ELLE" US - $3.99, CA - $4.99

2. Rachel McAdams on Cover -- blonde hair, beautiful sea foam dress with jewels in all the right places besides over her shoulder.  bitch 8)

3. *Cover teaser in right column reads - "Anxious? Self-Conscious? It's not depression - how to feel better."* (Unfortunately that isn't what the article is about, but it is certainly the only way to get someone to turn to it. No one knows what "depersonalization" is.) -- don't blame the journalist! She didn't write that I'd gather.

4. Article is on Page 246 -- near last quarter of magazine.
Title:

* "Stranger to Myself"

"Have you ever felt so detached from yourself that it's like you're watching yourself in a movie? That's a symptom of what some doctors say is an increasingly common psychological disorder called depersonalization. Ruth Davis Konigsberg investigates."*

Again, these things come out early. Good grief it's 3/11 and this is the April issue. It flies off the shelves. I saw NO March issues and went to Barnes and Noble -- a massive Barnes and Noble book store.

Remember to grab an issue and if you can, please write a letter to the editor thanking the magazine for publishing something/ANYTHING about DP. Just something brief. If they receive praise for covering mental health issues like this they'll do more of it, or it will encourage other journalists to do so.

Thank you Ruth D. Konigsberg for your help!

Holy Potatoes in a Teapot. We need to do more. More writing to editors. Even writing of our own experience.

Wooooooooo Hoooooooooo ... it so long for this to get published, and not the fault of the journalist. Folks, people just don't get this. They don't.

Love,
Dreamer


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## Dreamer

PS, it is NOT yet up on 
http://www.elle.com

That shows Jessica Simpson on the cover in pink. I did NOT see that in the store. Only the NEW ELLE was out.

I imagine the website will update w/in the next few days, but it will not have the full article in it, just notes on the magazine's contents.


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## Ludovico

You had me at "Rachel McAdams on the cover.."


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## Catharsis

Someone scan it ASAP for all the non-americans!


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## Jane

Catharsis said:


> Someone scan it ASAP for all the non-americans!


I second that!


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## [rula]

clicky here http://www.urbnlab.com/elle1.jpg
and here http://www.urbnlab.com/elle2.jpg
and Dreamer I didn't know your name is Sandy here http://www.urbnlab.com/elle3.jpg

I like the implication of the cover title "Anxious? Self-Conscious? (cuz you don't look anything like Rachel McAdams :lol it's not depression- how to feel better" :lol:, as if Elle magazine actually had an answer for us all!


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## Catharsis

Thank you [rula]

Mirrored:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6338/elle1ee7.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1631/elle2al2.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9885/elle3un0.jpg


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## Dreamer

Thank you Rula and Catharsis!

Also, I did NOT instigate the concept for this article. I'm not sure who first got this running and take NO credit for it. I was only very willing to take openly with the journalist.

I don't know if it was someone here, or David Kozin, or Uni Girl? A lot of people have been working to get the word out.

I just blabbed about my life, LOL.

Thanks everyone who got this going -- I think TWO YEARS ago.

L,
D


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## Dreamer

Also, good grief, feel free to complain about the article to the Editor as well. I have a few problems with it. But any response means we're paying attention. I'd like to kill that one woman who wrote some media book that says this is something we got from listening to too much TV or something. Forgot, I was so mad, LOL.

Do you see how many people in the article have a different opinion. We have to figure this out ourselves. We are experiencing this. I do think Dr. Simeon and Dr. Mauricio-Sierra are on our side though.

Curious about comments here as well.

D


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## [rula]

Dreamer said:


> I'd like to kill that one woman who wrote some media book that says this is something we got from listening to too much TV or something. Forgot, I was so mad, LOL.


How about Abugel's comment that it's the internet that's somewhat depersonalizing cuz you can go on it and be whomever you want to be? :shock: I didn't get dp from my cell phone, tv, video games, or the internet...my parents weren't abusive, didn't have mental problems, I didn't get sick a lot as a kid, and this def isn't the "illness du jour"!

I just wish this article would've had less (conflicting) expert opinions and a lot more interviews with actual sufferers and a clearer picture of what it's like to live with dp/dr, my favorite part of the article was your story. Readers of ELLE needed something more to relate to, or at least to empathize with. And while I'm complaining, the end was unnecessarily dark and gloomy, relative to the promising "how to feel better" on the cover...I mean, there are people who recovered including abugel, and Janine, which I'm not sure why she wasn't interviewed. -rula


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## Dreamer

[rula] said:


> Dreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to kill that one woman who wrote some media book that says this is something we got from listening to too much TV or something. Forgot, I was so mad, LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> How about Abugel's comment that it's the internet that's somewhat depersonalizing cuz you can go on it and be whomever you want to be? :shock: I didn't get dp from my cell phone, tv, video games, or the internet...my parents weren't abusive, didn't have mental problems, I didn't get sick a lot as a kid, and this def isn't the "illness du jour"!
> 
> I just wish this article would've had less (conflicting) expert opinions and a lot more interviews with actual sufferers and a clearer picture of what it's like to live with dp/dr, my favorite part of the article was your story. Readers of ELLE needed something more to relate to, or at least to empathize with. And while I'm complaining, the end was unnecessarily dark and gloomy, relative to the promising "how to feel better" on the cover...I mean, there are people who recovered including abugel, and Janine, which I'm not sure why she wasn't interviewed. -rula
Click to expand...

Dear Rula,
I agree with every single point you've made. EDIT: I can tell you that IT IS MY IMPRESSION the journalist had a difficult time getting DPers interviewed about personal experiences. Many didn't care to be involved though they were contacted. To my shock and surprise, LOL, I was the only one who ran at the mouth, but I don't care anymore, I have nothing to lose. I also enjoyed talking with her very much, and we spent HOURS at the NAMI Convention together.

I can't speak for Janine, but I don't think she wished to be interviewed either. The journalist also did not tell me every single person who was interviewed. I heard of some names I expected, but didn't delve into that with her. I do know the editor of the magazine wanted a "day in the life" of someone with DP, and that was how so much of my story got in there and I'm glad it did. It was a last minute addition.

Also, someone remarked, there was little, if any, mention of rec drug induced DP/DR which could easily account for an increased rate of this now in the younger population (I can tell you, not as many of my generation that I knew personally experimented as much with drugs -- I may be wrong, but thoses I knew personally.)

Also, the influence of the internet (that is in DPers connecting with each other) wasn't discussed enough, and the tremendous difficulty in getting a proper diagnosis wasn't addressed.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself and the bits and pieces I know. The sad thing is what an editor wants in his/her magazine can influence the outcome of a piece greatly, especially something like this. But yeah, the cover didn't sound at all like the same article!

I was sad to see many comments which made this seem like it is not common (the symptom IS EXTREMELY common as one psychiatrist noted -- he "sees it everyday"). In that sense "Pure Primary DP" vs. all other presentations of DP weren't clear.

I hate to say this but I fired off an email to the mean lady (Showalter at Princeton), LOL. I won't go into detail, but ... never mind. It wasn't a nice email. Man she got on my nerves. :shock: I tracked her down through Wikipedia and Amazon and it was noted she does get a lot of "hate mail." LOL.

More comments please. I do understand many do not want to come forward with their identities, and that was a problem for quite some time in bringing the article to fruition. I already have my butt out on the internet ... the cow's is out of the barn. I can understand people concerned about their jobs, friends, family. I gave up on that long ago.

However, I don't know why more "anonymous stories" weren't used. But it was pretty clear that my name, etc. would be in there. But again, many didn't want to talk.

I agree with you 100%. And people should write in about this stuff. I can't. Or I don't think it would be appropriate as I like what they did with what I had to say. There was PLENTY more.

I look forward to Harris Goldberg's film "Numb". I really hope he has Matthew Perry sitting in a psychiatrist's office talking about DP. Not something else. Internet Movie Database says it's about a guy with depression. See no one gets this.

I'm with you Rula!
More Comments Please!
L,
D


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## PPPP

:lol: "how to feel better" liars! they didn't have anything about how to feel better.

It doesn't really convey the gravity of the problem for those who suffer from it.

It's also pretty funny that the author implied that it's a 'fad'?
Funny sort of fad that nobody's ever heard of.
very avant garde.


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## Fant?me

I'm just glad Simeon said "we need a drug".

Thats what i've been waiting for as well.

The anecdote in the beginning was nice. When I do go to class, I usually wake up after 2-5 hours of sleep 3 hours before my first class so I can shower and coach myself back into semi-reality.


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## enngirl5

I'm a magazine junky and for some reason over the past week I've seen that Elle and almost bought it a dozen times. I came so close tonight and got Jane instead. I like that famous people are stepping out and discussing the disorder like the Director of the movie with Matthew Perry.

Now I'm curious about the distinctions between primary Depersonalization Disorder and derealization from Panic Disorder, GAD, OCD, etc.

It will be really interesting to read the comments next month to see what people thought of the article.


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## enngirl5

You know what probably is the deal with it becoming more widespread now? People have always been afraid to describe their symptoms to their doctors for fear of sounding crazy. Hell, I still don't like to describe my symptoms and I've been seeing the same therapist for years. The deal is that now we can all go on the internet and read stories of others with the same thing and we are becoming less afraid to openly discuss it. We can see that we're not crazy, and soo many other people have it, that now word is getting out and more people are speaking out. When is the Matthew Perry movie coming out?


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## Dreamer

Enngirl,
You ask some very good questions.

Firstly, as far as I know, "Numb" opens at the Tribeca Film Festival in New York this month! Can't wait for reviews. In the IMDB it does say that the main character has "acute depersonalization". I hope to God Harris Goldberg has dialogue of his EXACT experience in there.

I keep rewriting my theories on DP. I see why there is such argument. I think I see THREE types of DP "syndromes":

(One must eliminate the background noise of anxiety I think to define it though I think it IS an anxiety disorder -- a subgroup? The obsessive thinking... not sure. I am not obsessive of existential things anymore, but still GAD obsessive/worried all the time. This is based on my personal examination of this... ah Hell.)

*OK, bottom line. DP/DR are perceptual distortions, like deja vu
Depersonalization - distorted perception of self
Derealization - distorted perception of world, self in relation to world*

*We could add:*
Existential thinking - I think this relates to worries about "Self" however.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Causes:*
1. None apparent
2. Verbal/Physical/Sexual Trauma
3. Rec Drug Induced
4. Rx Drug Induced
5. Seizure
6. Brain trauma

*Common trait in sufferers, BEFOREE onset?: Anxiety, hence an Anxiety Disorder like Panic, OCD, GAD, Social Phobia, etc.*

*DP as "Primary"*
Per DSM - VERY SPECIFIC LIMITED CRITERIA: no drug onset, no underlying mental condition, etc. simply perceptual distorition with insight. No seizures, brain trauma, tumor.

*DP as a symptom of 1-6. Symptom only.* A specific symptom that comes with 1-6. Transient, seconds to hours to days. Episodic. Could become chronic. (Example a panic attack lasts about 15 minutes and fades), repeated panic attacks are seen as Panic DISORDER. A Panic Attack is an entity. In theory it could happen once or several times. It has to happen over a certain period time and limit functioning to become a DISORDER. I.E. the attacks don't respond to conventional treatments.

Perhaps at some point CHRONIC DP without let-up, even with remissions of several years but with a return, could be considered "Secondary Depersonalization Disorder" -- I made that name up.

So, could there be
1. DP/DR as symptom - COMMON
2. DP as Primary DP Disorder? - RARE
3. DP as Secondary DP Disorder? - COMMON
4. Brief episodes in healthy population - COMMON

In theory, I diagnose myself with Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Panic Disorder (which has significantly faded over time), and Secondary DP Disorder (it was the result of the GAD/Panic but remained and has become a disorder in its own right.)

It is extremely difficult to sort this out. But I guess I disagree with Dr. Simeon that as its own disorder it is very common. I would say as I have above, many of us here would have (_not an existing term, my term_) *Secondary Depersonalization Disorder - Chronic, or Chronic with episodes of remission (temporary or complete)*

This is a tough theory to sort out.

And Enn, I agree, many don't come forward or express the symptoms clearly to their doctors for fear of being "diagnosed as crazy." That is very unfortunate. But, I never hold back with doctors/therapists -- never did, since age 15. Every psychiatrist I've seen has known what I was describing. It was lower level Mental Health practitioners who didn't. MSW, Ph.D., M.A., Psychiatric interns and residents - clueless. New doctors.

Older Clinical Ph.D. psychologists understand it, psychoanalysts seem to understand it (I'd say especially if they have an M.D. -- lower level therapists don't get it even if their training is in trauma ... depends.)

Some of my GPs, and Gynecologists over the years knew what DP was. (OB/GYNs see post-partum depression w/DP symptoms). Anesthesiologists understand. They have to, they deal with dissociative drugs in surgery.

I have found ACSWs (the higher the level the better I or II, etc.) who understand. Neurologists, definitely know what it is. I have seen YOUNG medical students absolutely trembling over anything they're observing, but that's OK, I try to teach them, LOL. They are pretty terrified looking.

Comments?

*I hope someone writes to the magazine to tell them they're glad the article is there BUT they left out drug induced. SO important. I'm going to write the journalist about this.*

I am hoping and praying that Harris Goldberg's film just comes right out wiht it. I think Matthew Perry can do the job. DP MUST be described verbally, but may also be depicted somehow in the filming process. How, I don't know. At least Harris has it, he knows what he's talking about.

D


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## Dreamer

Note: Letters to the Editor should be written NOW. If you've read the article and have an opinon, write it now, short and sweet, and send it off (it's inside the mag somewhere to send it, mail or email, I'll find it).

I noted that this goes to press rapidly. But say, letters to the editor in the April issue I think are from maybe January/February. There is a lag time. And only a few good comments, probably one letter is chosen.

*Please write to them now if you have anything to say. I'd say most important is, this isn't a fad for the Love of God, AND why did you leave out the fact that many have drug-induced DP? Also that it takes years to get diagnosed properly for MANY here.*


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## [rula]

Dreamer said:


> *Please write to them now if you have anything to say. I'd say most important is, this isn't a fad for the Love of God, AND why did you leave out the fact that many have drug-induced DP? Also that it takes years to get diagnosed properly for MANY here.*


my theory is that they really wanted a new and trendy illness, something cutting edge like an electronics/internet-triggered disease.

This "new" illness (whether real or not) is way more interesting than something that happens to junkies. Even on this board, how many times have we seen posts by non-drug induced dp'ers demanding that drug induced dp'ers leave and make their own board because they "deserve what they got"?

and Dreamer I didn't volunteer like I said, but I did tolerate 95+ degrees weather, high humidity and really bad dp to speak for over two hours about my dp/dr and not a single mention of my drug induced dp (no need for direct quote) was anywhere in a 3 page long article for "lack of space" LOL. She didn't mention the fact that people do recover without "needing a new drug". She didn't offer alternatives other than holding our breath until Dr. Simeon finds a cure...and no I don't think she contacted Janine, she was suppose to get her info from me. It's like the article was supposed to be dramatically sad on purpose.

I think the cause of my dp was a combination of #2 and #3; that combo might be pretty common, self medication with rec drugs due to _psychological_ trauma. I do agree with you 100% and disagree with Simeon, Primary DPD is extremely rare, I know on this board there's only been 1 or 2 people who made convincing claims that no real trauma triggered their dp.

any how...I digress...


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## Dreamer

rula said:


> and Dreamer I didn't volunteer like I said, but I did tolerate 95+ degrees weather, high humidity and really bad dp to speak for over two hours about my dp/dr and not a single mention of my drug induced dp (no need for direct quote) was anywhere in a 3 page long article for "lack of space" LOL. She didn't mention the fact that people do recover without "needing a new drug". She didn't offer alternatives other than holding our breath until Dr. Simeon finds a cure...and no I don't think she contacted Janine, she was suppose to get her info from me. It's like the article was supposed to be dramatically sad on purpose.


Ah Rula,
That is a crying shame. I think/hope it was indeed the focus of the editor, what she wanted from Ruth. I enjoyed talking with her very much. But again I wasn't drug induced. Perhaps this is why they put the spin also on the unfortunate history of MPD which in the '80s became sort of a standing joke.

I'm so sorry to hear this.

Damnit.

I don't know what to say, as there IS an article there. As has been said, "Any publicity is good publicity", but I don't think that's true.

I really wish you had been included. No, I recall you participated.

Crap.

Well, we have to write our own article. Believe me, it's difficult. I write initially for myself, then cull out what works. I suppose though it should be sent to something like "Psychology Today" which not everyone reads, but some professionals gander at. And HAH, that I'd get published.

I'm sorry to hear this rula.

Take Care,
D


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## Dreamer

Website and trailer for "Numb" -- have a look. I don't know what to make of it. No one will understand it. Now I have an idea it should be a play, literally!

It is so difficult to do comedy with mental illness. I had a friend who isn't stupid who saw "As Good As It Gets" and said, "What was it about?" She didn't even get the OCD in it. To me that was obvious. Ah well. I didn't even bother to explain it to her.

http://insightfilm.com/numb.html

*Description of Film from Insight Film Productions:*
"Screenwriter Hudson Milbank suffers from acute depersonalization disorder. So alienated from his own life that he makes the chronically depressed look perky, Hudson lives alone, watches The Golf Channel all day, can't hang on to a relationship, shoplifts in order to get his adrenalin up off the floor, fears that thinking about his dad's death will bring it to pass, loathes his mother, and in general, is as nutty as a crapshack in a peanut farm.

Obsessed with the underlying sadness that infuses his wretched existence, Hudson is a man in hell, but he thinks that his long catalogue of dismally unsatisfying and mutually self-destructive relationships is over when SARA stumbles into his life. He knows she can save him. She knows he has to save himself. Together they save each other.

And it's funny too."

--------------------
I'm a vicious critic. I ain't sayin' ANYTHING until I hear reactions from others. It is a more "independent film" ... I believe it will have a wide release though. Thought it would be at Tribeca. Is Tribeca this month? I can't sleep again tonight.

Will post in main forum, but discussion should continue in this stickied area.

L,
D


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## [rula]

Dreamer said:


> I'm sorry to hear this rula.


It's quite alright Dreamer, trust me. I wasn't that upset by it. I was just curious as to why certain facts were, dare I say, intentionally left out. My guesstimate would be that around 80% (?) of all dp cases are drug (including Rx) induced. now that's probably worth mentioning.

If I wanted exposure, or for my story to be heard I would start a depersonalization page on myspace, or shoot a video on youtube, after all this is 2007. btw, have you ever considered writing a book about your experience with dp or converting your site to a myspace page? you'll def get a lot more exposure/spread awareness that way.

take case,
rula


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## Dreamer

[rula] said:


> Dreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry to hear this rula.
> 
> 
> 
> It's quite alright Dreamer, trust me. I wasn't that upset by it. I was just curious as to why certain facts were, dare I say, intentionally left out. My guesstimate would be that around 80% (?) of all dp cases are drug (including Rx) induced. now that's probably worth mentioning.
> 
> If I wanted exposure, or for my story to be heard I would start a depersonalization page on myspace, or shoot a video on youtube, after all this is 2007. btw, have you ever considered writing a book about your experience with dp or converting your site to a myspace page? you'll def get a lot more exposure/spread awareness that way.
> 
> take case,
> rula
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Re: my site, which has grown to a ridiculously large size, I'm adapting it into a book. I can't tell you how tedious and difficult it is. And I want it to cover a lot of ground, in a more organized manner. I realized the more I was adding to my site, the more I do have a book.

I'm trying. It is NOT easy. I do get a lot of traffic though. I get emails regularly from people -- very sad stories. From kids, from spouses of DPers, from people who've been misdiagnosed for 15 years.

Bottom line, I'm updating the site and plan to keep it up there. It is up on Google and other search engines. And there is always this site.

Cheers,
D


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## beatnikbdog

i'm not sure if this was already posted, but it looks like the elle article is on their website now. forgive me if this has already been pointed out..

..oh, i guess i don't have the ability to post links. meh. well, if any of you need the link, send me a PM.


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## York

There was an article.. Or not so much an article as sort of half a page, in PSYCHOLOGIES (UK) a couple of (or 3) years ago. I think it said "Feeling disconnected?" and there was an image of an old phone with the cord cut off.. Clever. Well, it was so vague that I missed it the first 5 times I flipped through the magazine, which was a shame as I actually got DP back after 12 years, then googled the symptoms, and _then_ found out I had an article on it all along. If I'd known what it was, which should be the purpose of articles like this I guess, I might have been more careful with putting myself in those stressful situations that brought it back, and also been less scared of it once it hit.
Anyway, it was only in very small writing you could read it was called DP, and also that the source of information was "Feeling Unreal". They'd interviewed a woman who'd experienced the death of her child I think, and she'd been feeling numb for a year, and then she got better. 
It sounded very normal to me, and not like an illness at all. So DP is in the media, but it's "photoshopped" to look pretty.


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## MobiusX

I'm not going to buy a magazine just for 1 article or 2, I'm just going to get it from online.


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