# Enmeshment plays a huge role in developing DP/DR.



## Infrared (Nov 27, 2012)

I've been doing a lot of reading on this, and it seems like the vast majority of DP sufferers have experienced family issues during their younger years.

Often it's not something you realized at the time, strictly because it's a normal reaction for some people.

"Enmeshment", in a nutshell, basically means adapting to your environment and "taking on" other people's emotions, namely family members. For example, if a nine year old's mother is constantly under severe stress and shows signs of severe anxiety and depression, the child will forget about their own needs and emotions and "take on" their parent's emotions. It means your "emotional barriers" are permeable.

This leads to constantly putting others first while ignoring your own needs, causing you to dissociate from the emotional overload.


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2012)

Yes, It's similar to codependency or may in fact be part of it, although we didn't all get DP this way.


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## GroupHug (Jul 6, 2012)

L i o n H e ❥ r t said:


> Yes, It's similar to codependency or may in fact be part of it, although we didn't all get DP this way.


Yeah, I can't really relate to any of this stuff. I'm always puzzled as to it's significance when it comes up.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

So does coming to that conclusion and start living for yourself more cure dp? I wish it was that simple. I am more independent and more selfish compared to how I was before dp and it really hasn't helped much.


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## Infrared (Nov 27, 2012)

I think it sticks with you into later life. Having changed to suit your family member's needs as a child, you often become a "yes man" and prioritize others, even when they don' really need your help.

I'm not implying that being selfless is a bad thing, as I can't stand self centered people, however, when you're so busy caring about what others think, you often lose your sense of self and people tend to take advantage of you and see you as weak.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Yep that's a huge thing ... Inner child work actually helped me get out of enmeshment at one stage and it involved constant daily work of picturing my little girl with me all the time even with friends and constantly checking in and asking her what she wanted to do and felt and needed etc I remember the moments I actually felt myself being a seperate individual with my own feelings and thoughts seperate to others it was fantastic ... I feel that abandonment issues and hating being alone contributes to this too because u think ppl r going to leave u


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Infrared said:


> I've been doing a lot of reading on this, and it seems like the vast majority of DP sufferers have experienced family issues during their younger years.
> 
> Often it's not something you realized at the time, strictly because you were it's a normal reaction for some people.
> 
> ...


This is a biggie for sure. Growing up enmeshed makes you overly sensitive to others needs and emotions and you end up ignoring your own but it's not just about that you also end up primed to be overly sensitive (to the point of ocd) of your own negative emotions that occur due to your circumstances which further exacerbates everything.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Infrared said:


> I think it sticks with you into later life. Having changed to suit your family member's needs as a child, you often become a "yes man" and prioritize others, even when they don' really need your help.
> 
> I'm not implying that being selfless is a bad thing, as I can't stand self centered people, however, when you're so busy caring about what others think, you often lose your sense of self and people tend to take advantage of you and see you as weak.


I agree 100%. When we end up so focused over caring so much about what others think, we lose our sense of self since it's not a priority. Perhaps the cure to all this misery is being more self-centered. I've noticed that selfish people get the most respect and are taken the most seriously in society. They are seen as 'leaders' when they are basically only after their own narcissistic self interests and are basically driven by that but everyone stupidly seems to be convinced that they can benefit from their 'leadership' but who actually benefits from another's self interest? Why settle for the table scraps of another's self interest? We really need to put our foot down and stop being such doormats now that we know better.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Yep that's a huge thing ... Inner child work actually helped me get out of enmeshment at one stage and it involved constant daily work of picturing my little girl with me all the time even with friends and constantly checking in and asking her what she wanted to do and felt and needed etc I remember the moments I actually felt myself being a seperate individual with my own feelings and thoughts seperate to others it was fantastic ... I feel that abandonment issues and hating being alone contributes to this too because u think ppl r going to leave u


The bottom line with this disorder especially when it has become chronic is that others have neglected and abandoned us and we've neglected ourselves in order to appease those we are forced to deal with. We generalize the fear of abandonment at the hands of our neglecters from childhood to a fear of being alone which makes us vulnerable to users. Also I think that doing so much for others makes us eventually resentful but because resentment is such an ugly emotion we don't deal with it by confronting it and we've been trained for so long to accept that others wants needs and desires go ahead of ours with abandonment issues of course keeping that going. When we don't process our emotions and feelings they also contribute to dp big time.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Yeah being abandoned and neglected caused me to abandon myself at 13 ... "oh there must be something wrong with me" therefore I must adapt and please ppl and monitor ppls reactions to know I am ok FUCk THAT lol I would love to take that day back and say get fucked instead lol


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

Agree, and the more I read about DP and us sufferers, the more I notice how things Harris Harrington has on his videos do make sense.
I've come to the point where I don't honestly believe that marijuana can cause DP.
I mean think about it, there are many people on this site who claims to have gotten DP from
-marijuana
-dp
-coffee
-acne meds
-meditation
-out of no reason
-panic attack
The list could go on and on. Why would there be so many activities causing DP? There's no logic in that. Sure, they have triggered your DP but why the hell would they be the main cause?
Make's no sense.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Yeah being abandoned and neglected caused me to abandon myself at 13 ... "oh there must be something wrong with me" therefore I must adapt and please ppl and monitor ppls reactions to know I am ok FUCk THAT lol I would love to take that day back and say get fucked instead lol


I to this day monitor people's reactions toward me..most people want you to tell them what they want to hear and to appease them..If all this energy we waste could be put toward ourselves we'd be much better off for it.


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## Infrared (Nov 27, 2012)

JackDanielß said:


> Agree, and the more I read about DP and us sufferers, the more I notice how things Harris Harrington has on his videos do make sense.
> I've come to the point where I don't honestly believe that marijuana can cause DP.
> I mean think about it, there are many people on this site who claims to have gotten DP from
> -marijuana
> ...


They say depersonalization isn't a "stand alone" condition, it's always co-morbid with things like anxiety, PTSD, depression, etc. It can even occur during opiate and benzodiazepine withdrawals.

I know people who've smoked pot, taken acid, mescaline, ketamine, and every other mind warping substance available without *ever* experiencing DP.

For us, marijuana simply acts as a trigger. It's a catalyst and nothing more, our minds had a predisposition to DP long before we ever tried it.


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

Infrared said:


> They say depersonalization isn't a "stand alone" condition, it's always co-morbid with things like anxiety, PTSD, depression, etc. It can even occur during opiate and benzodiazepine withdrawals.
> 
> I know people who've smoked pot, taken acid, mescaline, ketamine, and every other mind warping substance available without *ever* experiencing DP.
> 
> For us, marijuana simply acts as a trigger. It's a catalyst and nothing more, our minds had a predisposition to DP long before we ever tried it.


Exactly!
http://depersonalizationrecovery.com/articles/why-do-some-people-acquire-depersonalization-disorder-and-not-others/


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Wise

I can tell u that the monitoring people's reactions to u is from a belief that u have about urself of being something wrong with u plus u may have had to do that growing up in a dysfunctional family so u don't "wake the dragon" so to speak ... One thing I do to counteract this is paying attention to my own emotional state rather then focusing on the others ...


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Have u got anything more to add to this thread fearless


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Wise
> 
> I can tell u that the monitoring people's reactions to u is from a belief that u have about urself of being something wrong with u plus u may have had to do that growing up in a dysfunctional family so u don't "wake the dragon" so to speak ... One thing I do to counteract this is paying attention to my own emotional state rather then focusing on the others ...


I agree that that is why the monitoring of people's reactions happens and it stems from not having unconditional love I guess, you can't just relax and be yourself because you've been trained to base your self worth on how others react toward you and you just focus on people pleasing instead of just being yourself and comfortable in your own skin. I guess the key to recovery is not allowing the need to please others rule your life but it's a tough habit to break if you've learned to associate your survival with people pleasing. The only cure for dp i think is to just love ourselves unconditionally...the only way to conquer it is to just say I don't give a fuck about what others think..That's the whole journey and challenge with dp. I also think a lot of it has to do with control, when you feel controlled by others it translates in your psyche as having no free will. I think the key is to assert yourself and express yourself and not be afraid that you'll alienate people because even if you do it would be people you don't need around anyway. Also to live in the moment and not over analyze your actions before you take them and be afraid to make a mistake. I think that's also key to getting out of that automaton observer mode.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Wise

You are spot on! It's like a "force" is in play when we are around ppl like we r frozen in fear and submission mode because to be ourselves even for a second may warrent abandonment or ridicule that's how it feels for me anyways and yes conditional love is a key factor ... Look up the liberator method it's what got me out of DP once before it involves changing your beliefs, judgements, perspectives and inner child work it's a conscious effort daily and well worth the effort I'm going to do it again when I move


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearing people's reactions to u .. Does it root from ur parents? I know mine deffinately does


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Wise
> 
> You are spot on! It's like a "force" is in play
> when we are around ppl like we r frozen in fear and submission mode because to be ourselves even for a second may warrent abandonment or ridicule that's how it feels for me anyways and yes conditional love is a key factor ... Look up the liberator method it's what got me out of DP once before it involves changing your beliefs, judgements, perspectives and inner child work it's a conscious effort daily and well worth the effort I'm going to do it again when I move


I will look into the Liberator Method. I personally thought that the DP Manual and the Linden Method were useless-only Harrington's program was the most helpful from all the help I sought out. He really opened my eyes to what could be fueling the dp. I honestly have come to believe that too much enmeshment causes you to feel like you no longer have free will and not putting your needs first because of enmeshment causes you to constantly feel guilty about taking care of your own needs and this contributes to negative panicky thoughts that start the dp ball rolling, and because it happens so often your psyche assumes that you are stuck in an oppressive situation long term and that the best way to deal is to not feel like you are in your body and hence not in control of your body. Your psyche just basically decides that is the best solution. I think you need to challenge that choice that your psyche has made and the only way to show it that it isn't the best solution is to face your psychological fears like your fear of your family ridiculing you and disowning you. Challenging your fears convinces your psyche that dp (and ultimately the phobias that dp puts into effect) don't need to be put into effect because there are no dangers or oppressive scenarios present. Usually the best way to do this is to leave the toxic situation that triggers you and not make excuses that you can tolerate it because it catches up to you and totally immobilizes you when you least expect it.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Yes do look into it ... It really helps you to correct your distorted and warped perceptions of reality and urself ... Once the layers of beliefs and judgements start to fall away u begin to see reality for what it truly is and that you are accepted no matter what ... Before u start with ur feelings I would suggest clearing ur warped perceptions first trust me it works if u put the effort in I never thought in my wildest dreams that I could actually be confident and do things again I started to get my confidence back and developed boundaries for the first time in my life and THAT'S when my feelings were starting to come out and my sensitivity sprang back into action it was the best feeling in my life I felt like me again only a better and stronger version of me like I could handle anything


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Yes do look into it ... It really helps you to correct your distorted and warped perceptions of reality and urself ... Once the layers of beliefs and judgements start to fall away u begin to see reality for what it truly is and that you are accepted no matter what ... Before u start with ur feelings I would suggest clearing ur warped perceptions first trust me it works if u put the effort in I never thought in my wildest dreams that I could actually be confident and do things again I started to get my confidence back and developed boundaries for the first time in my life and THAT'S when my feelings were starting to come out and my sensitivity sprang back into action it was the best feeling in my life I felt like me again only a better and stronger version of me like I could handle anything


$1000 is too pricy for me right now


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2012)

wise said:


> $1000 is too pricy for me right now


I found 4 classes for it here... http://www.veoh.com/list/u/agoracorp


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Lionheart .. U can pay weekly not all at once it's actually similar to paying for counselling anyways i can say that it does work


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## so_tired (Dec 11, 2012)

Infrared said:


> I've been doing a lot of reading on this, and it seems like the vast majority of DP sufferers have experienced family issues during their younger years.
> 
> Often it's not something you realized at the time, strictly because it's a normal reaction for some people.
> 
> ...


well, makes sense.. my mom was srsly depressed when i was 2 bc her niece died in a car accident (she was only 9) and she was like her kid. My mother was somehting like big emotional vampire my whole childhood always complaining about life to me even though I was 4 yrs old I already knew about financial stuff like the difference between brutto and netto salary LOL, at 5 yrs old.. its too much! 
(she is accountant).

My first memories of DP are when I was maybe 5+ and every night I was lying in bed, the lights were shut down. I shared my room with my sister, and she was already asleep. I was too worried, and stressed out. I felt too anxious. I guess this was beginning of DP, because in the morning when I had to go to school, I barely could function there. I was blacking out, nobody noticed it, but now I do... looking back. So, being unable to process all those emotions from home - parents fighting ALL THE TIME, mother too obsessively worried and emo vampire, living in a war time (i am from ex yugoslavia) and this was srsly stressful...all that made me too anxious, and at night i tried to process the feelings in my bed on my own, because i had no support, but i couldnt. Waking up and going to school the next day (and the next, and the next..) was NIGHT MARE to me, because I felt already dead. All that at just 5-7yrs old... 
I bet this was start of DP.

because I had a choice.. actually I didnt have a choice.. i intuitively knew I cant process everything, it was too much and I had to shut down. I couldnt colapse in bed - for some weird reason kids RARELY DO IT. it is intriguing... like... i cant believe how many shit i've put up with when i was kid and I STILL FUNCTIONED. in all ways, socially, academically... i functioned. and now? i cand put up with 10% of it and I end up in bed every morning, never functioning.

i am sorry for such big post probably a lot off topic, i am new to forum...


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

So basically we are all "entangled" in our parents projections of us and it sort of blurred out our own individual identities


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## peanut butter (Nov 9, 2012)

nothingworks weebly says about DP that
_It's all part and parcel of the fight-flight response. The brain is scanning at high speed all the surroundings, it is working at such a speed that not all the sensory information is 'used', only the information pertinent for survival is processed. this so called 'unreality' is the combination of a slight time lag in perception due to the brain trying to process so much at once and the 'missing' nice pieces of perceptual data._

But the usual thing people say DP to be is that it's a protection mechanism to protect you. So which one it is?


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Fearless - I don't think dissociation leads directly to DP because before DP I had a lot of strong emotions and they were very much present and strong I will admit I could dissociate when I had no other choice (at home) however I did not dissociate in frot of bfs and friends etc .... DP is due to an emotional overload When u have been through a threshold of emotional trauma and you just can't take it anymore


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## Justinian585 (Dec 4, 2012)

I've had family problems in my past sure, but I'm confident that I have moved on from them.

My parents are not very stressed people. Very mellow, in fact. I'm confused...


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Justian585

Most likely you have suffered emotional neglect then


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## Justinian585 (Dec 4, 2012)

missjess said:


> Justian585
> 
> Most likely you have suffered emotional neglect then


Come to think of it, you're right. And now I push people away and close myself off. Hmm...


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> So basically we are all "entangled" in our parents projections of us and it sort of blurred out our own individual identities


 I don't think severe abuse necessarily causes enmeshment, it can just be a matter of being too empathetic perhaps. And then add to that the fact that people tend to take advantage and then you end up neglecting your own self by default.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Wise

It's actually a pattern you have acquired in terms of how you relate to a parent so let's say you had a depressed mum and she turned to u for support that's enmeshment coz straight away u will take on responsibility for her feelings and if she did not demonstrate any kind of emotional support for u then u forgot about it own emotional needs understand ?

That is my pattern of how I related to my mother I was always the fucking strong one I was there for my mother and at the same time copping the direct abuse from my father (I've always had problems with trusting and relating to females and I now know why)


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Wise
> 
> It's actually a pattern you have acquired in terms of how you relate to a parent so let's say you had a depressed mum and she turned to u for support that's enmeshment coz straight away u will take on responsibility for her feelings and if she did not demonstrate any kind of emotional support for u then u forgot about it own emotional needs understand ?
> 
> That is my pattern of how I related to my mother I was always the fucking strong one I was there for my mother and at the same time copping the direct abuse from my father (I've always had problems with trusting and relating to females and I now know why)


Well then maybe it is denial and my empathy is solely the byproduct of enmeshment but even if I had to go through family dysfunction to learn empathy, it's something that was worth it because the one thing that truly bothers me is people that lack empathy ironically enough. I definitely was expected to provide to my parents emotional support even though I didn't get much unconditional love from them and I guess my purpose was to just be a means to an end for them or be otherwise seen as a burden. They were ignorant and were slaves to tradition and were trying to comply.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Funny thing is I don't have any empathy with DP haha ... It's more of a "safety & guilt" feeling thing and a really bad habbit ... The bottom line is I think dissociation is ALSO a defence mechanism when you have severely low self esteem and a lot of shame


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

The higher ur self esteem is you will have no reason to "not be in ur body" because u will actually want to be in ur body and comfortable in ur skin


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## Dan33d (Oct 13, 2012)

Never really fort of that before but could be very true!


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> The higher ur self esteem is you will have no reason to "not be in ur body" because u will actually want to be in ur body and comfortable in ur skin


True but in life you have to go through things to learn your lessons. I had to be a doormat and a servant in order to have a grasp of empathy and now have to learn a new life lesson, this time about self prioritizing in order to conquer dp.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Wise

Yes for sure you did out of "conditional love" if you didn't conform you most likely got abandonment


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2012)

Infrared said:


> I've been doing a lot of reading on this, and it seems like the vast majority of DP sufferers have experienced family issues during their younger years.
> 
> Often it's not something you realized at the time, strictly because it's a normal reaction for some people.
> 
> ...


Thats weird because I have always trying to adapt to everything growing up and take on EVERYONEs emotions and had alot of traumatic events growing up but i think ultimately what striked the DP was the marijuana use but I read this and I was like holy shit, this all makes sense. I ALWAYS put others first growing up and still kinda too :/ in a chronic way. even before I got DP and now that I think back, I really was on my way for an emotional overload.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Inthedark

Yeah that would be the root ... Codependency and people pleasing


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

missjess said:


> Wise
> 
> Yes for sure you did out of "conditional love" if you didn't conform you most likely got abandonment


Yes but you have to change your mentality and take the good with the bad. The reason why a lot of us stay spaced out is because we are comfortable in victim mode and stewing in 
anger when we should process the anger and use it to fuel ourselves to make changes.


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