# Antipsychotics



## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

The user luctor et emergo asked me about antipsychotics. Out of curiousity I decided to look into my data (which consists of most medication trials for Andys Site and parts of some other forums) and analyze the outcomes of all treatment trials of N=29 users with antipsychotics:

+---------------+-----------------+--------+----------------------+-----------------------+
| NAME | DRUG | Effect | Concurrent medicatio | Role of drug abuse |
+---------------+-----------------+--------+----------------------+-----------------------+
| Sandy | Haloperidol | -2 | | |
| Andy | Risperidon | 3 | | |
| Andy | Sulpirid | 0 | | |
| Helen | Risperidon | 0 | | |
| Marjorie | Thioridazin | -2 | | |
| Marjorie | Mesoridazin | -2? | | |
| Nicole | Prochlorperazin | Cause | | |
| A. | Perphenazin | 0 | | |
| Simon | Thioridazin | 0 | | |
| Simon | Haloperidol | 0 | | |
| Ramon | Sulpirid | 0 | | |
| Ramon | Pimozid | 0 | | |
| Alex H | Risperidon | 0 | | |
| Lori | Haloperidol | 0 | | |
| Madelon | Haloperidol | 0 | | |
| Madelon | Sulpirid | 0 | | |
| Helen2 | Risperidon | 0 | Paroxetin, Bupropion | |
| gary | Risperidon | 0 | | Cannabis (cause) |
| gary | Olanzapin | -1 | | Cannabis (cause) |
| Ron | Olanzapin | 0 | | Cannabis (cause) |
| Stephen | Trifluoperazin | 0 | | |
| Stephen | Thiothixen | 0 | | |
| Virginia | Haloperidol | 3 | Several | |
| Seanna | Quetiapin | 0 | | |
| Dan | Trifluoperazin | 0 | | Cannabis (prehistory) |
| JAM | Olanzapin | 0 | | |
| James | Olanzapin | 0 | | |
| a  | Risperidon | 0 | | |
| a | Quetiapin | 0 | | |
| Jason D | Olanzapin | 0 | | Cannabis (prehistory) |
| Dan2 | Olanzapin | 0 | | Cannabis (cause) |
| Stephen Casey | Olanzapin | 2 | | |
| Daniel | Risperidon | 0 | | LSD (cause) |
| H | Haloperidol | 0 | | |
| H | Clozapin | 0 | | |
| H | Risperidon | 0 | | |
| H | Trifluoperazine | 0 | | |
| H | Sulpirid | 0 | | |
| Cavan | Prochlorperazin | 0 | | |
| Samantha | Olanzapin | 0 | | |
| Samantha | Risperidon | 0 | | |
| Amy | Risperidon | 0 | | |
+----------+----------------------+--------+----------------------+-----------------------+

Unfortunately the outcomes are very bad. Only Andy, Virginia, Seanna and Stephen Casey reported significant benefits. Even in these cases there are some caveats: Andy responded after one week, but only for 3 days. In Virginia the symptoms remitted over a longer time frame, so it's not clear if this can really be attributed to the antipsychotic, the other medications, the psychotherapy or spontanous recovery. Seanna says that she does not only have depersonalization, but other dissociative symptoms as well and that Quetiapine helps against the dissociation. It's not clear if she also means depersonalization, when she says "dissociation". Even if it helped for the depersonalization she might be in a special subgroup, because most people with depersonalization disorder don't have other dissociative symptoms. The only credible case of a person with primary depersonalization benefiting from an antipsychotic seems to be Stephen Casey.

In spite of the negative outcomes there are also some interesting results: The data suggests that antipsychotic-induced exacerbations might be more rare than previously thought. Only 3 of 29 (10%) users stated that antipsychotics made them worse. But this might also be caused by lack of reporting or a misinterpretation of my behalf, which is why I will read and rate everything again, when I finished collecting on Andys forum. For example some users said that typical antipsychotics made them feel like a zombie. In my opinion this does not necessarily imply an increase in depersonalization symptoms. It's also noteworthy that most people who tried more than one antipsychotic always had the same effect.

Although the results are not very promising we should not forget that most of the data is based on postings from 1997 to 1999, where more promising antipsychotics like Aripiprazole or Amisulpride were not available. Maybe further data will turn the wheel around at least a little bit.


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## luctor et emergo (May 22, 2015)

TDX, your contributions are very valuable, thanks!

Curious that so few people read / respond in this section.


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## Plants (Jan 14, 2012)

Yes thank you TDX. I think that even though the zombie like feeling itself doesnt technically increase a persons depersonalization symptoms, i think feeling like a zombie is an awful feeling that can be interpreted as dp or feel just as bad.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

I was prescribed 5mg Zyprexa two weeks ago. It helped immensely with my derealization, but only for a few days. I'm now increasing the dosage to 10mg in hopes that the positive effects last longer than just a few days.


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## didep (Jul 1, 2011)

TDX: Amisulpride has benefits in the dp/dr? There is evidence of this drug?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> TDX: Amisulpride has benefits in the dp/dr? There is evidence of this drug?


Real evidence is lacking, but in low doses it increases dopamine release which makes it different from other antipsychotics and might make it promising for some people. But it's only a theory.



> I was prescribed 5mg Zyprexa two weeks ago. It helped immensely with my derealization, but only for a few days. I'm now increasing the dosage to 10mg in hopes that the positive effects last longer than just a few days.


I remember a case on this forum who benefited from Olanzapine as well.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

I just started Zyprexa (Olanzapine) about one week ago, and it has been helping a good bit. 5 mg at bedtime and 2.5mg in the morning.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> I just started Zyprexa (Olanzapine) about one week ago, and it has been helping a good bit.


In what way changed it the depersonalization symptoms?


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

I don't know exactly which symptoms. But I do know I feel better. I have less anxiety and less obsessive thinking. It seems to keep panic attacks away also, as if my body can't have strong anxiety or panic anymore. I feel sort of floaty in an almost euphoric way.

Most importantly, it has NOT increased any dp/dr symptoms.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2016)

It also helps me sleep, which helps alleviate the DPDR.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

luctor et emergo said:


> Curious that so few people read / respond in this section.


I think it's because it's tucked away and hard to find. I only just saw it.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> I think it's because it's tucked away and hard to find. I only just saw it.


Soon I'll have finished collecting all data of Andys Forum. I think this would be the time for an intermediate result.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2016)

I've decided to get off Zyprexa. The weight gain became too much and I'm not sure it ever really helped with dp.


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## hidden (Nov 28, 2015)

Aripiprizole is not the best drug at all so I wouldn't even make it a definite point to throw out your data.

I love how the study is like a guerrilla study.

Quetiapine seems to have the least side effects and it is great for sleep and is metabolized into an NRI by daytime.

So I think that is the best of the best in terms of antipsychotics for DR.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

I suffer major depressive episodes with severe insomnia. Seroquel or Quietapine has helped me significantly on two occasions. When you haven't had real sleep for weeks on end, anything resembling sleep can solve a lot of issues. Seroquel can definitely render one unconscious.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Aripiprizole is not the best drug at all so I wouldn't even make it a definite point to throw out your data.


I looked in my posting and didn't find where I called it "the best drug". I only said it is more promising. The reason is that there are two case reports where it worked. My study seeks to explore to which extend this might be true. But the data of Andys Forum doesn't give an answer to this question.



> I love how the study is like a guerrilla study.


There are several methological issues about my data, but I don't understand what you mean with "guerilla study".



> Quetiapine seems to have the least side effects and it is great for sleep and is metabolized into an NRI by daytime.
> 
> So I think that is the best of the best in terms of antipsychotics for DR.


Maybe. It would be interesting to know if one antipsychotic outperforms this others in terms of anti-depersonalisative effects, but the data of Andys forum cannot answer this question. The only interesting result is that antipsychotics were less likely to make DP worse than in Kozins data.



> Seroquel can definitely render one unconscious.


Unfortunately it developes a tolerance. The effect is not completely destroyed, but it's much reduced. At least in my case. Clozapine did not have this downside.


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## hidden (Nov 28, 2015)

I've talked to D. Kozin on many occasions.

Aripiprizole i mentioned because I believe it was not on the market when the study was done.

I thought it was a sort of off-the-grid study; I guess it's not.

I have taken in my own studies Abilify and Zyprexa and Seroquel.

Seroquel does give you a tolerance after a while, this I know first-hand.

But reduced EPS is a favorable quality, tolerance or not.

Zyprexa is quite simply one of the stronger APs. When I took it, it felt like an elephant tranquilizer.

Abilify is a sodium channel blocker i believe. Works differently than other APs. I felt that was medicine for guys who drool in the corner at a ward. Just my opinion/experience.

The issue with Clozapine is that it is a 'tricky drug' to prescribe and use correctly. Clozapine is (i believe) the first atypical.

It is also one of the best for schizotypal psychosis. There are issues with internal organ damage so I needs to be taken a certain way.

I know personally one of the main researchers early on with Clozapine. And is probably the leading expert with Clozapine in the eastern continental USA.


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## Erika (Aug 10, 2017)

I have tried several antipsychotics.
1. Levomepromazine (typical): I could only bear it for three doses because it made me EXTREMELY sleepy and put me in the well-known "zombie mode". I was emotionless, blank, apathetic and just wanted to hide in a cave and sleep my life away. I don't know if it made my DPDR worse, it's realy hard to discriminate which feeling is which in such cases. My personal opinion is that the "zombie" feeling was distinct form DPDR.

2. Olanzapine (atypical): Same as levomepromazine minus the extreme fatigue. It gave me extreme hypertension and only took one very small dose (1mg). I took such a small dose because I am unusually sensitive to medication, so I wanted to tread lightly (and I'm glad I did)

3. Haloperidol (typical): I only took two drops in the evening for a week when I was feeling unusually bad after a few sleepless nights and hadn't returned to baseline for weeks. It got me out of that state by eliminating symptoms adjacent to DPDR (sensory issues, muddled thinking, brain fog), but not DPDR itself. I stopped taking it because I was feeling my RLS get worse. It is unclear whether the reduction in my symptoms is attributable to the drug because I took an extremely low dose and my symptoms sometimes abate just as suddenly as they worsen, for no apparent reason.


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## davinizi (Mar 9, 2016)

Erika said:


> I have tried several antipsychotics.
> 1. Levomepromazine (typical): I could only bear it for three doses because it made me EXTREMELY sleepy and put me in the well-known "zombie mode". I was emotionless, blank, apathetic and just wanted to hide in a cave and sleep my life away. I don't know if it made my DPDR worse, it's realy hard to discriminate which feeling is which in such cases. My personal opinion is that the "zombie" feeling was distinct form DPDR.
> 
> 2. Olanzapine (atypical): Same as levomepromazine minus the extreme fatigue. It gave me extreme hypertension and only took one very small dose (1mg). I took such a small dose because I am unusually sensitive to medication, so I wanted to tread lightly (and I'm glad I did)
> ...


Your extreme reactions to these drugs makes me think your DPDR is mainly chemical induced and while others may not experience the same reactions from the same drugs, it could be that you already had some deficiencies which makes it difficult to detox certain substances creating more havoc in your health.

Read this for example: many pharmaceutical drugs contain some type of fluoride which has a range of bad health effects.

And this :

Psychotic disorders occur unusually frequently among East African immigrants in Norway. The most common explanation has been war trauma and the collision of cultures. But researchers at NTNU have raised another hypothesis for the cause: fluoride. Many East Africans move from areas with excessive natural fluoride and low natural iodine, to a country with little natural fluoride and enough iodine in their diet.

This dietary shift can affect hormone production in the thyroid gland and lead to the metabolic disease called hyperthyroidism - which in turn can develop into a psychosis. The theory has now been internationally published.


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