# Benzo's.



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Without wanting to start a flame war, I'd like your opinions on this. From my own experinces these are the effects of the various Benzo's I've taken, at equivalent doses. (Note - Apart from taking Clonazepam for weeks during Chemo, I've never taken any benzo regularly)

Librium - Lethary - no noticable effect on anxiety.

Diazepam (Valium) - Sweet, indescribable relief. But the effectiveness decreases rapidly. Very rapidly.

Oxazepam - Utterly useless. Not effect whatsoever.

Lorazepam - While decreasing anxiety, this is the only benzo that I've had significant withdrawal symptoms from. Even after a small dose.

Clonazepam (Klonopin) - Relieves anxiety. Nice warm feeling. Possible depression (mild) when stopping.

Tempazepam - Slightly sleeply. Not much else.

Just want your thoughts. Don't want to get into a debate about their potential addictiveness. Well all know the story.


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

I just have these sensations for the first few days of doing any of these drugs. Does yours last the whole time?

Anyway, after a week or so they all just make me feel tired. Tired, tired, tired.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Generally, yes. But I only take them (and I mean this) when I'm absolutely frazzled by anxiety or panic. 'Background' white noise-type anxiety, and taking benzo's in those situations, is a recipie for addiction.

I may be insane but I'm not stupid.


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## David Kozin (Jan 11, 2005)

Benzos

The shorter acting benzodiazepines, which most commonly will be used for short-term therapy include: Alprazolam (Xanax) and Lorazepam (Ativan) and the longer acting are Diazepam (Valium) and Clonazepam (Klonopin).

Despite having similar mechanisms of action and general properties, each one has a different characteristic.

In general, Xanax is prescribed with caution because the subjective effects of the substance tend to be much more of a "high" feeling than other benzos. Because it is short acting, it is one of the most dangerous to stop abrupty. It is more addictive because of the "high" and short half-life.

Lorazepam (Ativan) is one of the mroe unique benzos and is a concern because it is known to cause paradoxical reactions on a certain group of people. What I mean by that is that is can lead to MORE anxiety and have stimulant affects. My experience with Ativan was not good. People have been known to experience psychotic-like reactons to Ativan.

Valium has been a trusted benzo for a long time and its effects quite predictable. It has more of a "high" than the other longer acting benzo's, so it is sometimes less preferred to a drug like Klonopin.

Klonopin is usually the benzo of choice for longer term treatment, because it has a long half-life and is the least "fun" out of the group. A low dose of Klonopin can go a long way in reducing panix and anxiety symptoms and the withdrawal from Klonopin is not as bad as the shorter acting benzos.

Personally, I think they can be a smart choice in specific instances because they are predicatable and are cheap compared to other medications. Where the newest in anti-anxiety medsl may take weeks to work, if you are an individual who has only one panic attack a month, it would seem more sensible to give a non-drug abusing patient a prescription of 10 Xanax pills (.5-1 mg or even lower) to take in the event of panic. Some doctors will see this as being a senisble alternative to giving someone a maintance dose of a drug like Paxil for the rest of their lives. In the long run, you and your doctor and to look at the risks and benefits.

Also, remember Benzos can reduce anxiety, but can increase DEPRESSION.

Best,

David


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Yes, I agree entirely, especially with Lorazepam. Thank you.

Do you have any information on Oxazepam? It was worse than useless.


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## David Kozin (Jan 11, 2005)

Oxazepam is actually a metabolite of Valium, which means that as Valium is processed in the body oxazepam is actually acting on your body as well. This would be the idea of a pro-drug, Valium converts partially to oxazepam, which itself has an effect.

Because I am not a doctor, I hesitiate to go beyond research and data provided to me, however Oxazepam is a lower-potency anti-anxiety drug and to quote my PDR: "Oxazepam should not be prescribed if you are being treated for mental disorders more serious than anxiety."

This substance has a place in the family of benzo's, but more towards inidivuals with aggitation and for the elderly.

Compared to the higher potency Benzo's, of which Xanax and Klonopin are really the leaders in that category, it is not going to provide you the same type of anti-anxiety acton. I would see this being prescribed to an individual with the following situation:

Gentlman, Age 65, has mild anxiety and irritability because of personal issues at home, which can be best treated with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or Psychotherapy in the long run, however some sort of adjunct medical treatment is desired. Because it is a lower potency per milligram (20 mg of Oxazepam = approximately 1/2 milligram of Klonopin) there is a lot of room for adjustment for doctors to work with. You can step up slowly, as apposed to Xanax where even .25 mg to a benzo-naive patient will feel an effect. You take 2 mg of Xanax and you defintely are aware you are on it. Oxazaepam gives more room to adjust at a milder anti-anxiety drug, which means less side-effects overall. Studies demonstrate that the common problems with high potency benzos like Klonopin and Xanax are not as present in reasonable doses of Oxazepam.

So, I would not consider it "useless", but as always question your physician why this is the choice of medication.

My best,

David


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## Imagine (Oct 24, 2004)

I'm still on the Librium and Lorazepam.

Librium 15 mg Daily (3 5mg Pills).

Lorazepam 3 mg Daily (3 1mg Pills).

I don't notice anything with the librium... but the lorazepam sure does destroy anxiety.


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## SillyPutty (Mar 29, 2005)

Lorazepam works for me, no side effects either.
I was taking it daily now just as needed, no withdrawal.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2005)

I take Wellbutrin (because I had sexual side effects with other meds) which has a mild possibility of actually causing anxiety or seizure, so Doc has me taking Klonopin 2 times a day. To be honest I usually only take 1 a day,(I worry about addiction, although Doc tells me not to) but it works much better for anxiety than the others I have used. (ativan, xanax, valium).


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## David Kozin (Jan 11, 2005)

You have a very trusting doctor; you must be a very good patient. Klonopin between the ranges of .25/day to 2 mg a day is pretty low on the chances of addiction, although someone on 2 mg a day for one year who abruptly stops is going to have a very unpleasant time rebounding.

Klonopin about 2mg a day becomes much more troublesome and the side effects increase dramatically. I know people who have not remembered months of their lives because of 4 mg a day Klonopin scripts. It is not just taking it 4 mg a day that is the problem, but suddenly you may find yourself taking 6 mg one day, then 3 the next, the 8 mg the next day, and you find yourself having little to no worries in the world. You can begin missing important appointments, etc. As long as you take your dose as prescribed and you don't find yourself trying to manipulate your doctor to get more Klonopin, then your chances of addiction are not that high. However, once you start lying to your doctor and taking double your dose and running out at the end of the month before refills... this is when you should realize you have a problem.

- David


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

I abused valium regulary in my hippie days and found it to be a wonderful high (low). Upon onset of dr/dr I used it off the street medicinally and found it therapeutic but I used too much of it (was irresponsible) and combined it with booze. After I quit illegal drugs I was prescribed the following.. Librium was too weak. Klonopin just made me drowsy and drugged. But xanax, it was perfect for anxiety. Would really do a job on taking the edge off of panic attacks and high plateau anxiety. But it did not really do anyything for the dr/dp outside of giving me a better emotional feeling.

I now always carry a bottle of xanax with me and use on an as needed basis (maybe three .5mgs pills a week). Been doing this for years. I was at one time on 2 mgs per day for over four years and 3mgs for a short while but found things better if I only used it sparingly.
jft


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

I will be attacked, so I'm prepared, but EVERYONE HERE IS DIFFERENT AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT NEEDS.

I was on Valium, Ativan, and Xanax back in the 1980s. They did NOTHING for my DP/DR (my first concern which was completely disabling) or much for Anxiety! I don't recall doses, but I never became addicted, never abused them, and had no trouble withdrawing from any of them. I can tolerate very high doses of many meds without any side-effects.

At that time (in my late 20s) they did NOTHING for me.

In 1987 Klonopin was being used at Sheppard Pratt Hospital for those with DP and was found to be effective in some patients. At the time the hospital was for those with MPD. My doctor, Richard Loewenstein, a founding member of the ISSMPD at the time gave me Klonopin.

He recommended pushing it to 8mg where my DP/DR were SIGNIFICANTLY improved, to where I didn't want to committ suicide. I was on no other med at the time. First drug since I was 15 that touched the DP/DR at all.

We pulled down to 6mg which I have taken 2/2/2 since 1987! EIGHTY SEVEN. I have never abused the drug, I have never increased it, it has never lost its efficacy.

I had a cocktail of Klonopin, Celexa, Pamelor and Lamictal since 1999... note never having dropped the Klonopin since 1987 -- never increasing it. Decreasing below say 4mg brought back the DP I HAD BEFORE ANY MEDICATION (since I was 4/5).

I have recently successfully withdrawn from Pamelor. NO SIDE EFFECTS and was on that since @1997?

The goal now is to next decrease the Celexa a bit, and possibly increase the Lamictal, then pull back the Klonopin.

I went off Pamelor (Nortriptyline) 50mg, 10mg at a time over a period of about 2.5 MONTHS. Any other med will be tapered that slowly if not more slowly.

My metabolism is different. I have GAD? Borderline Traits, Depression. DP/DR. Chronic, 24/7 since a kid.

My case is different, my treatment is different, my metabolism is different, my risk/benefit is different. Now, Joe go fire away at me. I just had to clarify we are all different, and I DO NOT ABUSE, and NEVER HAVE any benzo.

Oh, recently I was panicking over a miserable situation re: my mother's death (2001), her lies to her attorney about me, etc. Once a Xanax helped. After that, it felt like I had too much wine. Note, I don't drink at all anymore and only used to tolerate wine. NEver been drunk in my life and no rec drugs. I have not taken any other benzo since. So since 1987 on Klonopin I then found Xanax to be very uncomfortable. I think I took 3 1mg pills/or 2mg pills in total. Made me feel awful.

Also I've never gotten a "high" from a benzo. I can't drink as mentioned. Bad side effect = hangover from one glass and severe DP/DR upon ingestion.

I am obviously not an addictive personality, have never experiemented with rec drugs/cigarettes for various reasons, no pot, etc.

Klonopin has been the most effective drug of EVERY DRUG I'VE EVER TAKEN in reducing the symptoms of DP/DR and in helping with my anxiety.

Iknow as I get older I may have to lower the dose. My doctors over the years have not been concerned. More than one. I will take all the time in the world, and would bet that the DP/DR WILL come back, as I always had it!

This is my unique case.
I hope to God no one attacks me, but I have to say my piece. I'm almost 47 years old. Been there/done that. No doctor has ever "distrusted" me.

Best,
D
We are all unique. My DP/DR is obviously from a different cause, or of a different type and is tremendously disabling and I've had it chronically for YEARS. Very different from others here.


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2005)

and I may get attacked as well, but I'm old, recovered and really don't care, grin

Valium worked VERY well for me for many many years. It did not cure me, but it helped me to be able to survive long enough (and go outside) so I could find the therapy that eventually allowed me to heal.

I also took a WIDE variety of differnt meds over many years, never abused them and never had trouble getting doctors to prescribe them. Some meds I did not like at all. I stopped taking them. Common Sense 101 is important if you're trying meds.

Xanax, for me, was a decent anti-anxiety drug but did not reduce dp or dr.

I believe the way meds work depends on What particular CHEMICAL combo at a given time for a given person allows that person to feel SAFE enough emotionally to be able to make shifts in their consciousness so that the DP or DR is minimized or reduced. THat is MY opinion only.

There are NO universals for meds except one: *do NOT take someone's medication if it was not prescribed for you.*

and

*NEVER *ORDER MEDS YOURSELF (with no prescription) FROM THE INTERNET

Peace,
Janine


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Yes, I agree with NORDID about memory loss on Klonopin. I've said and done things that I really can't remember. Bare in mind I don't take them regulary (once a week at the most), but when I do - I take, well, quite a lot. I have been known to take 10mg in one shot and function perfectly well. But I can't remember a single thing about it !!


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2005)

In response to NODID, yes my doctor trusts me, and yes, I am a good patient. As an ex-nurse and pharmacy technician I have seen the "pill seekers" and addicts and saw how miserable their lives are, begging the pharmacist for early refills and harrassing their doctors. I don't ever want to do that. My doctor wants me to take .5 mg Klonopin 2 times a day. I just can't bring myself to do it, I would be too tired. Like I said it is great for the dp/dr and anxiety, but it makes me a little bit loopy. I have told my doctor that I would rather take it on a 2 times a day _as needed_ basis. At this point in time , the dp/dr and anxiety has too strong of a hold to not use it at all. I am starting new meditation classes in 2 weeks , I am hoping it will help.


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2005)

I took Klonopin for about one month, 0,25mg a day. It was cutting the edge of anxiety for some time. It developed a very uncomfortable hypersalivation for me (and it still continues unfortunately, even I am off any medication for over two months now).


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