# A question about personality disorders



## Abe89 (Jul 31, 2018)

I was just wondering about this and it keeps bothering me.

Do people here think that diagnosing someone with a Personality Disorder is going to be helpful to that person.

I personally feel that it could just make people feel small and limited in their capacity to shape their own life.

I was bothered about this because of a unpleasant experience I had with a psychiatrist.

It was the first time I met him and I told him about my DP and the reason why I came to see him.

After talking with me he said I have a "severe personality disorder" and gave me a number to call.

Anyways I didn't call the number or went in again because I didn't feel very compatible with the doctor.

I'm just amazed how it can be said in a very short amount of time like 15min, without any investigation or looking at any facts.

So again my feeling is Personality Disorders are not a good method to treat people with behavioral problems. Alternatively I like to suggest just calling them behavioral problems and using some other names for categorization. And not call them personality disorders.

I know some people won't have a problem with these labels, but I"m somewhat autistic and I understand a lot of things literally so if someone says I have a personality disorder it's really hard to wrap my head around that. It's not helpful to me at all.

Any comments would be appreciated.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

I agree with you Abe89. I have contacted my elected state officials to render my opinion that the term "behavioral health" is inappropriate in the context

of state funded public mental health organizations. It is condescending and stigmatic. I suffered a rare epileptic syndrome comorbid with recurrent major depression

for 40 years. I had a host of symptoms associated with major depression, and I never misbehaved. If it could be said I had eccentricities because of my illness,

I do not believe it would be fair to say I had a "personality disorder". I'm intelligent, compassionate, and people who know me would be happy to tell you I am

one of the nicest people they know. My comments to state officials are ignored. State officials don't provide treatment. They contract with a state organization

that negotiates with the state for the provision of those services. Calling it "behavioral Health" sends the message that if you don't give us the money we

are asking for, our clients are going to misbehave. (And, you don't want that, now do you?)

I wouldn't accept a diagnosis from a psychiatrist who has seen me for 15 minutes. I saw several psychiatrists over a period of 40 years, and none of them

ever gave me an accurate diagnosis. I diagnosed myself after finding a case history in a neurological journal that matched my illness in every unique and

odd detail. You write very intelligently. I don't doubt that you have the intelligence to evaluate your own personality. Research "personality disorder"

and decide for yourself if the diagnosis fits. Good luck!


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## Abe89 (Jul 31, 2018)

Where said:


> Forest, I wouldn't recommend Abe diagnose himself. Reading the mental health bible can have a real horoscope effect. On the other hand, many people clearly have some dysfunction and are unable to see it, even when it's spelled out for them.


Thanks @Where and @Forestx5.
@Forestx5 I know a lot about your story , the stuff you posted here. I even sent you a EEG I took to see if it had irregularities. And you even gave me a answer to that .

@Where Forestx5's comment "I diagnosed myself after finding a ..." meant that after experiencing something for a very long time he found a explanation that's very fitting and then he had it confirmed by further tests by a neurologist.

Yeah, of course I'm not going to be my own doctor. I started being aware of my problems since 2005 and I've learned a lot since then. I'm actually more interested in the available treatments rather than a diagnosis. If the treatment sounds good I don't care what they call it. I'm not too sensitive to the term Personality Disorders either.

It's just that doctors take a very one-sided approach and they insist on being always right. That's why I didn't go back to that doctor, he was very one-sided.


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## Abe89 (Jul 31, 2018)

Where said:


> On the other hand, many people clearly have some dysfunction and are unable to see it, even when it's spelled out for them.


That's a good point. I recently heard that it could be considered a symptom of the condition.
If you could just listen to the talk below, it has a real life story as well.






I liked the idea that doctor suggested. Which is instead of telling someone something that you know they can't understand, give them something they can work with.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

I don't think Abe is psychotic. I wouldn't advise someone suffering from a psychotic illness to diagnose themselves. I always knew I was not psychotic, because I was (unfortunately?) fully aware of my suffering. For Individuals with psychotic illness or bipolar with

manic episodes, that's not always the case. Though a friend had a psychotic illness and the pharmacy refilled his prescription with 1mg pills, instead of 10mg pills. (Navane) After a week, he was wondering how he could saw his furniture

down so it would fit in his truck, because he had to move to the west coast (???). That's when it dawned on him that something wasn't right. He had enough insight to recognize his thinking had gone haywire and he saved his furniture with a call to his doctor.

The DSM-5 lists 10 general types of personality disorders, presented in groups of 3 clusters. If one is paranoid, schizoid, or schizotypal, they may not have reliable Insight into their disorder. If they are dramatic, erratic,

anxious or fearful, they just might be able to identify themselves from a lineup of symptoms for their particular disorder. If one went to a psychiatrist of one's own volition; there is obviously

some self awareness of psychiatric illness. A psychiatrist might diagnose me by listening to my symptoms and comparing them to a known list of symptoms in a DSM.

Give me the DSM, and I'll do it for myself and nothing will be lost in the translation. I know all the big words they use. lol. Not that I believe diagnosis is actually done in this manner. I suspect most psychiatrists flip a coin and start a patient on either an antidepressant

or an antipsychotic medication. Then, they adjust from there. It's similar to how a mortar team works in the military. One long, - adjust....too short - correct....keep firing until you hit the target...If the medication that finally works is for depression,

then put that as the diagnosis on the form submitted to insurance. Or psychotic illness for antipsychotic medication. I agree with Abe that a diagnosis is only relevant for appropriate treatment (and billing).

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201205/the-10-personality-disorders


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## Abe89 (Jul 31, 2018)

Where said:


> I guess the field felt they had to come up with diagnoses for people whose tendencies are harmful to themselves or others.


haha..I don't know why people keep repeating this phrase "they may be harmful to themselves or others". People who smoke regularly would fall into this category as well, and therefore require a diagnosis.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Abe89 said:


> haha..I don't know why people keep repeating this phrase "they may be harmful to themselves or others". People who smoke regularly would fall into this category as well, and therefore require a diagnosis.


They do. My medical file lists "tobacco use disorder" as one of my many diagnoses.

Anyways, "harmfulness to self and/or others" is basically the hallmark of whether a phenomenon is categorized as a "mental illness" or just another life problem. That and stereotypy. It basically confirms psychiatry's original caretaker function in society.

As to the term "personality disorders", well, I had the exact same thought you had. There's also the problem inherent in psychiatric diagnosis is that, if you tell a person, especially a struggling person, that they have such and such behavioral disorder, they tend to start behaving more and more like the thing they feel they are "supposed" to be.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

Abe89 said:


> I'm just amazed how it can be said in a very short amount of time like 15min, without any investigation or looking at any facts.


Welcome to psychiatry/mental health. You won't find any empirical evidence of anything.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Where said:


> I was going to say it's funny that part of society consider tobacco use a disorder while another part encourage it, but thinking about it more I realize it's mundane. The same thing is with junk food and overeating. And if a person gets drunk alone regularly, they're maybe considered an alcoholic, while doing so with other people is condoned.


A lot of this has to do with whether your issue causes any social problems (or, again, harmfulness to self or others). The college student who drinks himself stupid everyday may not be considered an alcoholic, but the parent who has one too many beers at dinner and then drives home, is stopped by the cops, and arrested "has a problem", and may be an alcoholic for life. There's a reason the rate of alcoholism is higher in suburbs and rural areas than in inner cities: people who live in inner cities don't need to drive home after a night of drinking!

Another thing: drinking at night: ok. During the day: alcoholic.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Abe89 said:


> Yeah, of course I'm not going to be my own doctor. I started being aware of my problems since 2005 and I've learned a lot since then. I'm actually more interested in the available treatments rather than a diagnosis. If the treatment sounds good I don't care what they call it. I'm not too sensitive to the term Personality Disorders either.
> It's just that doctors take a very one-sided approach and they insist on being always right. That's why I didn't go back to that doctor, he was very one-sided.


I think this is the right attitude to have. Examine the various treatment options, and if one seems to be reasonably relatable to the specific problems that you e been having, then try it out. Of course, you'll have to get "diagnosed" with the "disease" for which the treatment is indicated, but that usually isn't too hard, unless it's ADHD. That's how many mental health people operate: the diagnosis you get depends on the treatments they want to give you as well as what insurance covers.


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## Abe89 (Jul 31, 2018)

Chip1021 said:


> Of course, you'll have to get "diagnosed" with the "disease" for which the treatment is indicated, but that usually isn't too hard, unless it's ADHD.


Hey Chip,
So what's different about ADHD?


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Abe89 said:


> Hey Chip,
> So what's different about ADHD?


The fact that the drugs prescribed for it are often abused and passed around in schools. That and the fact that rates of diagnosis have been ridiculously high in some places. I think I read somewhere that 1/3 of boys in Alabama have received a diagnosis of ADHD. At least at one point they were that high, and it was very embarrassing for the profession of psychiatry. So they are very reluctant in many places to give out such diagnoses.


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## Abe89 (Jul 31, 2018)

Chip1021 said:


> The fact that the drugs prescribed for it are often abused and passed around in schools. That and the fact that rates of diagnosis have been ridiculously high in some places. I think I read somewhere that 1/3 of boys in Alabama have received a diagnosis of ADHD. At least at one point they were that high, and it was very embarrassing for the profession of psychiatry. So they are very reluctant in many places to give out such diagnoses.


I see. That haven't happened in our country yet. But a lots of children are being screened for hyperactivity and attention problems in schools these days.
My cousin's youngest son of 7yrs was identified as being hyperactive recently.


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## ReiTheySay (Aug 5, 2016)

Interesting. I've never thought about it or seen it this way. I get how it can be seen this way as an autistic person.

Honestly, it feels like one of these terms that in ten years or so they find a different alternative to. It feels like an umbrella term that is not accurate to be honest.

And it is a little disturbing to think "personality disorder" does suggest there's something wrong with the personality/person as a whole or how it functions as a whole where a lot of times it's aspects of it, or not even necessarily "personality".

I think it's also the connotation it has. Comes from the doctors themselves.

Btw, 15 minutes to diagnose? terrible doctor. I have had my own share with them. Most recent doctor I went to needed 2-3 sessions to try to diagnose me (then decided he really couldn't, at least he knows his limits)

Good points Chip & Where. I think when you realize that societal norms extend to the psychiatric industry and nothing is an exception, you don't take everything from their point as an absolute.


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