# Quick introduction: HPPD + DP/DR



## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Hey everyone!

I've never really bothered that much with DP/DR forums before. I have HPPD, with co-morbid DP (both officially diagnosed), and some other things like cognitive dysfunction that are not diagnosed. Anyway, I've had this for a little over a year now, and have seen this forum here and there in my searches, so I decided to join. Oh; I'm 18 years old.

It all happened in one night, and in short it went like this: Party -> nobody dancing -> bored -> beer -> more beer -> got offered Speed and thought it would be similar to cocaine, so I took way too much -> doing pretty decent -> stuff started wearing off -> got offered XTC -> some weird things happened but nothing too bad -> never been the same person since and had to cancel my life basically.

I know some of you here have HPPD as well. My username is onedayillsailagain over at HPPDonline, in case anyone was wondering.
Don't really have much to add, as at the moment I'm having a bad bout of brain fog. For the past year I've been trying everything I can to resolve my issues. Medications, supplements, nootropics, etc. combined, I've probably tried over 150+ things this past year. I've a few keepers, but many of my endeavors were a waste of time and money alas. Anyhow, I don't really have all that much philosophical/psychological ideas about DP/DR/HPPD. I believe my issues to be neurological in nature, both the induction and the perpetuation thereof. After all; my problems are drug-induced. Because of the debilitating and disabling degree of severity of my problems, I can no longer work nor study.

As such, I've dedicated most of the past year to researching, theorizing and experimenting, and continue to do so. Aside from my currently horrible cognition, I'm a high-school drop-out, so it took me a while to get familiar with neuroscience. In any case, I hope to be able to add to discussions of non-psychological treatment options, as this is what I'm more familiar with. I've tried Iboga, tDCS, and Modafinil, to name just a few of my trials. Currently I'm conducting a self-experiment with the newly marketed nootropic Coluracetam.
My next will be with CBD, and who knows what I'll come up with after that.. I just keep trying and I'm sure one day I'll get this right. Though hopefully sooner than later of course.

Yeah.. brain's pooping out on me so I'll just leave it at that for now. So, hello people


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Thank you selig!

Yes.. It can suck at times, but other times it's manageable. Indeed the added HPPD makes it a tad more frustrating, though I don't believe I've ever had DP without HPPD, so I couldn't compare really.

Haha I wouldn't say conquered, but eventually it just becomes more convenient to be more accepting and to work with it. Despite that I still have bouts of anxiety, I do believe once you can be more accepting of it, you can allocate (more of) your resources into finding a way to recover, rather than solely worrying about it.

Yes they can alleviate some symptoms. I've tried a lot of things, and I've a 'toolbox' so to speak. I'll consider adding to the discussion of those topics already opened about these, and perhaps also open some my self (don't believe there's much about tDCS on here, which for me brought the best DP alleviation I've ever experienced).

I don't believe in permanence to be honest. Whether I've suffered brain damage.. Yes, though it's a very broad term, and open to interpretation if not elaborated. But simultaneously I believe that there are ways to (help) heal the brain, and as such I don't view it as irreversible. This extends only to my personal case. Whether DP as a whole is related to brain-damage is a discussion for another day 

All the best back to you!


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

Hey Odisa, have you tried taking L-glutathione? The reason I say this is because the MDMA that you took effects Monoamine neurons from the interaction between Alpha-methyldopamine and Glutathione. This is because the interaction between the two can cause neurotoxic effects which would target the nervous system and disrupt the signaling that allows neurons to communicate effectively.

My guess is that the MDMA has effected the way that Glutathione works, so my best guess would be to take more by buying some L-Glutathione supplements to see how they effect you.

Not only that, taking L-glutathione works as an enzyme activation mechanism and it has been said that one of the causes of HDDP is that inhibitory mechanisms involved with sensory gating are disrupted. So I wonder if taking something that will active the enzyme would reverse the inhibitation.

It also states that HPPD symptoms may manifest from abnormalities in CNS function, and guess what ? L-Glutathione also cause DNA synthesis and repair, protein synthesis, prostaglandin synthesis, amino acid transport, and enzyme activation.

If I were in your position, I would give some of this stuff a go for a couple of weeks but if you don't notice an improvement then you should try the CBD. If your symptoms are caused by the immune system then the CBD will help. Just try with different stuff, I hope you find a cure soon and welcome to the forum.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Wow thanks Funky Buddha for your thoughts  I presume you're referring to this study?

I haven't tried Glutathione yet, for reasons described here. This is why I've opted for NAC instead, which I have a bottle of. Haven't given it a fair shot though, as I've been busy with other ventures. There have been a number of HPPD'ers who've had some good results with NAC, however main benefits were with cognition, though suffice to say that would be beneficial to the DP aspect, though I've not read of any visual improvements therewith. Indeed the pathogenesis HPPD is CNS mediated, however the exact mechanism by which this occurs remains unclear. Basic theory is that there's localized disinhibition of the visual/occipital regions, whereas there's widespread inhibition of other cortical areas, the latter of which likely contributes to the co-morbid syndromes and symptoms, such as DP and cognitive dysfunction, though every case of HPPD is different and some are purely visual.

Again; thanks for giving your time! I'll certainly look into it further. In any case, I'll be trying the CBD first, as aside from its anxiolytic effects it also has various beneficial effects on the brain (though there's one article about CBD inducing cytotoxicity in oligodendrocytes). Though the benefits weigh this out by far, moreover I'll be taking another nootropic along with it that will limit any negative effects on the myelin. Lastly the oligodendrocyte study seems quite biased anyway.

Thank for the good wishes; I'll keep trying till I do!


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> Wow thanks Funky Buddha for your thoughts  I presume you're referring to this study?
> 
> I haven't tried Glutathione yet, for reasons described here. This is why I've opted for NAC instead, which I have a bottle of. Haven't given it a fair shot though, as I've been busy with other ventures. There have been a number of HPPD'ers who've had some good results with NAC, however main benefits were with cognition, though suffice to say that would be beneficial to the DP aspect, though I've not read of any visual improvements therewith. Indeed the pathogenesis HPPD is CNS mediated, however the exact mechanism by which this occurs remains unclear. Basic theory is that there's localized disinhibition of the visual/occipital regions, whereas there's widespread inhibition of other cortical areas, the latter of which likely contributes to the co-morbid syndromes and symptoms, such as DP and cognitive dysfunction, though every case of HPPD is different and some are purely visual.
> 
> ...


Yes I was refering to that study and fair enough. If you find that NAC benefits you then that's good. I don't mind giving my time as longs as I can help people with their symptpms as I know how horrible some of them can be!

As for the CBD, it is one of the best products I've ever brought. I got my vaporizer a week ago now and have used it! I find that it gives me a sense of tranquility and euphoria. These effects seem to last me about an hour or two. And if you want more of an effect you just have to smoke more. I notice it makes my head feel weird though. I think it has some THC in it because it makes me laugh a bit!

The only thing I don't like about it is that the vapour is too rough on your throat and dries it out pretty quickly. I think dixie will give you the same effect but without the dry throat.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

I haven't yet tried the NAC, but the CBD is pretty nice so far. However, as far as price-effectiveness ratio goes, I have other products that suffice. I don't think I'll be ordering more. Haven't tried MediVape's one though, neither have I received a response.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> I haven't yet tried the NAC, but the CBD is pretty nice so far. However, as far as price-effectiveness ratio goes, I have other products that suffice. I don't think I'll be ordering more. Haven't tried MediVape's one though, neither have I received a response.


I'm glad you like the CBD. I tried Dixie's CBD the other day and I have to say in comparison with Medivape's they're basically the same. I don't notice anything different apart from the onset and that Dixie's one has better pain killing effects and helped a tad more. I had 20 drops.

You should try NAC and see how that goes. I know what you mean about the price, you should have a look into Kratom. It isn't addictive as people say and it can be good for anxiety. You have to know what strains to get though because you can get stimulating ones and sedating ones. If you want sedating then go get a Bali strain and if you want a stimulating one get the Thai.

I wouldn't go for a stimulant one, because it can apparently make the anxiety worse although it hasn't for me however I find a mixture between Thai and Malay very nice. 

I find the tablets to be most effective, however you have to take 5 at once or roughly 6 grams to notice an effect. You can also get a mixture of the different strains and it's good for depression and anxiety as well. Here, take a look at this:

http://www.sagewisdom.org/kratomguide.html

As for the website where you will buy it, seen as you live outside the UK I would say here is a well know place:

http://kratomsupply.net/kratom/kratom-sample-packs/

I would go for a sample pack first to see which one works for you, also don't drink alcohol on top of this stuff because it will cause you to have CNS depression. It happened to me and isn't nice at all.

I've tried a couple of strains of Kratom and I liked them very much. Don't take them every day because the tolerance will build you should miss a day then take it a day etc..

As for Medivape not sending you a reply, I will have ago and contact him as well.

Hope all is well though, and keep me updated. :smile:


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## Pmz623 (Sep 15, 2013)

Odisa. What's your symptoms of DP like? Right now I just feel pretty blunted emotions. Like its hard to get excited or listen to music. As well as the brain fog


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Funky Buddha: Cheers mate. I'll look in to Kratom, but to be honest I rather stick to sustainable methods of mitigation. I've been looking into other herbs as well, but for the time being I won't be able to experiment as much as I would like. For now, the CBD has been particularly useful for sleep; I've been sleeping great on it.
My next attempt at recovery will be in the form of rTMS, which I'm currently working on getting set up. If all goes well, I'll be able to do it well before the year ends.

pomz623: What you listed, though I would say 'cognitive dysfunction' rather than brainfog, and more. Not really sure I'm in the mood for focusing on my symptoms right now though, I'm sure you can understand that.. I could describe it, but I'd think it'll probably come down to the usual.


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## odisa (Sep 2, 2013)

Tried the Kratom today.. Bitter stuff. Dunno what to say; I shoud've tried it while alone. But I was over at an acquaintance.. It was definitely anxiolytic, yet also a bit.. spacey. Not unpleasant though; had some random laughter and was quite content. I might try it again in the future when alone, though for now it was just an interesting experience. Tired now though.. Ohh; dosage was 3g Bali. No regrets.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> Funky Buddha: Cheers mate. I'll look in to Kratom, but to be honest I rather stick to sustainable methods of mitigation. I've been looking into other herbs as well, but for the time being I won't be able to experiment as much as I would like. For now, the CBD has been particularly useful for sleep; I've been sleeping great on it.
> My next attempt at recovery will be in the form of rTMS, which I'm currently working on getting set up. If all goes well, I'll be able to do it well before the year ends.
> 
> pomz623: What you listed, though I would say 'cognitive dysfunction' rather than brainfog, and more. Not really sure I'm in the mood for focusing on my symptoms right now though, I'm sure you can understand that.. I could describe it, but I'd think it'll probably come down to the usual.


Talking about tRMS, are you refering to one of these:

http://www.shaktitechnology.com/winshakti/rotating/order8coil/order_USB_8_coil_shakti_intnl.htm

I'm glad you're trying ever possibility out there. One of them has to work. That's what I'm currently doing at the moment. I know something that does work and it literaly ebliterates anxiety at it's source. But, it comes with a price. If you take too much it can cause you to have a full blown psychedelic effect but then again I didn't have a psychedelic effect because I was smoking the low-dose version of it because that's all that I needed.

Anyway, it's called Salvia Divinorum. I smoked this stuff back in April and have had mixed reviews about it, if you get a 5x or preferbly the plain leaf you'll be fine. I liked it because it made me become one with my environment and I didn't have a psychedelic episode. It did make my heart race a bit but if you relax it goes away though. But I mean, I only took this stuff when I had REALLY bad anxiety. Some people have been cured from anxiety by taking it though...

Read this anyway, would give you more of an insight. But WOW, this stuff when I took it back in April was amazing. I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time though. I would say like once or twice a week. It's more of a thing to take indoors as well. Don't get anything above 5X though because you will trip and I don't think you'd want that at all. You can get a tincture, and would say it's the best way to go.

http://www.salviatruth.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_Salvia_divinorum_in_the_United_States

Anyway, hope you'll find some of that usefull.  Hope it's not banned in your country.


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## Funky Buddha (Apr 12, 2013)

odisa said:


> Tried the Kratom today.. Bitter stuff. Dunno what to say; I shoud've tried it while alone. But I was over at an acquaintance.. It was definitely anxiolytic, yet also a bit.. spacey. Not unpleasant though; had some random laughter and was quite content. I might try it again in the future when alone, though for now it was just an interesting experience. Tired now though.. Ohh; dosage was 3g Bali. No regrets.


Kratom is very bitter. Hmm, yeah I know what you mean. You took Bali which is very sedating-ish. I would recommend more of a stimulant variety with a mixture of Bali in it. This will stop the spacing out. I would say the best strain would have to be a mixture of Thai or Malay with the Bali which is what I use as these will keep you from spacing out. Bali on its own can make you feel tired. 

Oh, and I'm glad you liked it. It had helped me out a lot. Kratom is one of those things where you just have to experiment with the different types in order to get the perfect mix for you. It is one of the least harmful drugs out there and gives you some nice effects to treat the anxiety. Anyway, glad I've helped mate. 

Thanks for keeping me updated on your experience.


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