# feeling worse then u guys



## klt123 (Jun 15, 2005)

im feeling like i might be way worse then some of you and it freaks me out like somebody help me now!!!!!! i feel like my thoughts are getting worse and more scary and i cant think ect..i do not know how i am typing.. i have had this ten fucking years and i try everyday to battle this. i try to listen to old music, or look at pics, or watch tv.. i cant do shit.. im freaking out and sick of this. no meds even take the edge off.


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## freesong (Dec 26, 2005)

Hang in there Kit!!! Ten years is a long time. I can't imagine how that must feel. Keep searching for your answers and apply what others are doing. That is my suggestion and it is helping me. There are so many approaches to this that it can be confusing. I am so sorry that you are so confused and frustrated. I feel your pain. Keep on trying. Just keep on trying. Or, as some say, just get busy and don't let it consume you. I no longer get the same enjoyment out of t.v. or reading but still enjoy working out and being with friends. Find what does work during this time and try to make all the changes that you can incorporate. That is all you really have control over. Again, I am sorry that you have gone through this for so long. Love, freesong


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

Kit, here is a leading therapist in Ohio:

http://www.peterbarach.com/

Here's a leading hospital in Michigan:

https://www.forestviewhospital.com/home.html

Try these for support groups and other help:

http://www.mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/data ... lname=Ohio

Akron
Akron Area Network
4055 Tarlton Ave
Akron, OH 44319-2834
Phone: (330) 645-2040
View map

Type of Organization: Residential Treatment Centers for Children

Akron General Medical Center
Attn: Behavioral Health
400 Wabash Ave
Akron, OH 44307-2433
Phone: (330) 384-7677
View map

Type of Organization: General Hospitals with Separate Psychiatric Units

Blick Clinic
640 W Market St
Akron, OH 44303-1465
Phone: (330) 762-5425
View map

Type of Organization: Residential Treatment Centers for Children

Child Guidance Center & Family Solutions
312 Locust St
Akron, OH 44302-1878
Phone: (330) 762-0591
View map

Type of Organization: Outpatient Clinics

Coleman Professional Services
Sage Computer Services
3043 Sanitarium Rd
Akron, OH 44312-4600
Phone: (330) 644-8899
View map

Type of Organization: Multi-setting Mental Health Organizations

Community Support Services
150 Cross St
Akron, OH 44311-1047
Phone: (330) 253-9388
View map

Type of Organization: Multi-setting Mental Health Organizations

Community Support Services
Clean Sweep Custodial Services
640 Wolf Ledges Pkwy
Akron, OH 44311-1528
Phone: (330) 253-9675
View map

Type of Organization: Multi-setting Mental Health Organizations

Community Support Services
Edgerton Group Home
117 Edgerton Rd
Akron, OH 44303-1544
Phone: (330) 836-6687
View map

Type of Organization: Multi-setting Mental Health Organizations

Community Support Services
Kibler Hall
101 Ambassador Ct
Akron, OH 44312-4410
Phone: (330) 733-6203
View map

Type of Organization: Multi-setting Mental Health Organizations

Family TIES Office
Child Guidance Center & Family Solutions
682 E Buchtel Ave
Akron, OH 44304-1911
Phone: (330) 762-2557
View map

Type of Organization: Outpatient Clinics

M


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

Hey don't feel alone, I've had this sh*t about 18 yrs now.

I know what it feels like to try and distract yourself from this fear... watching TV, reading, doing puzzles... and I know how discouraging it is when none of these things work.

It gets better. I mean it's still horrible for me, but at least I'm not pacing around the house and begging people to take me to the ER cuz I'm losing my mind.

What meds have you tried? Xanax takes the edge off for me. And klonopin helps out too.

Try writing all your scary thoughts down. I did this once when I was on the verge of a panic attack. I wrote down all the racing thoughts in my head. It helped a little.

How do you spend your days? Work? School? Try to establish a routine... and include exercise in it.

I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope we get relief soon. Doctors are taking more of an interest in this illness I never even knew had a name a few years ago. Help is on the way.


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

klt123 said:


> im feeling like i might be way worse then some of you and it freaks me out like somebody help me now!!!!!! i feel like my thoughts are getting worse and more scary and i cant think ect..i do not know how i am typing.. i have had this ten flower* years and i try everyday to battle this. i try to listen to old music, or look at pics, or watch tv.. i cant do silly*.. im freaking out and sick of this. no meds even take the edge off.


Keri,

Do you always feel like you're bracing yourself? Like there's something inside of you that needs out bad? But you're not sure how to release it? Maybe it feels like extreme anxiety, but at the same time, it doesn't seem like you should feel anxious? It's a feeling that's kind of always there, doesn't ever go away, no matter what?

Do you ever feel like you just want to exist in any given spot on the planet? By exist, I mean to stand somewhere and not feel like you have to move around or escape?

Do you ever feel like these feelings are so strong that they're like the feeling of intensity right before an orgasm, but 10 times more powerful, and that you can't release them?

Do you feel like you need to break through to the other side? And once you get through something or to the other side, then you'll feel better?

Find the place where the most distress or pain is. Focus on it, while laying on your back. Raise your hands above you, with your elbows straight.

Then allow all the anxiety and panic or whatever to just rip right through you. Don't be freaked out by any sensations, no matter how weird they feel.

If you're like me, you have a lot of pent up energy or adrenelin from PTSD. This energy needs to unfreeze and release itself. Then you'll feel like new again.

For me, it was 11 years. I am doing so much better now than I was just 3 or 4 weeks ago. It just takes time to heal, especially after having it for so long.

I also can't really relate to just DP. My body was fighting this sensation in my chest. This sensation was causing me to always brace myself, like something painful or bad was going to happen. But nothing bad ever happened.

I also had a sensation in my head that concerned me. I focused on it, allowed it to come and then it eventually peaked, climaxed, and then I felt a whole lot better.

It's like a huge weight has been lifted.

My chest was so tight that every time I took a deep breath, my chest would make cracking sounds. I had this problem for 11 years and only very recently did it go away.

I know I posted a recovery message back in January, but that was just the beginning. Looking back, those were just the beginning states of recovery.

You will overcome this. It just takes a lot of focus. And you will watch and listen to your body recover. That's the most amazing thing. I can feel myself recovering every day. I'm far past the hump of recovery. I feel like I'm back on earth again.

I can go out anywhere now, with more confidence than before I even had PTSD or DP.

You may have something which is more difficult to overcome than most people on this board. But it sounds like we have had the same thing. When you write things, I always think to myself "I could have written that, because that's how I feel."

You must have PTSD, because all the meds in the world never helped the way I felt either. I was taking lots of meds, and they didn't even really take the edge off. I could always feel this thing under the surface. It's pretty much gone now, but it took a lot of work to overcome.

Don't waste money on therapists. They have no clue how to overcome what you're going through. They're going to recommend cognitive behavioral therapy which is useless for PTSD. What you need, like I said above, is just gradually, very gradually, release this energy inside of you.

Sorry if anyone has PM'd me recently. I was spending like 3 or 4 hours a day responding to PM's and it just got to be too much. I had to step away. Nothing was getting done. I need to learn to organize myself better so that I'm more to the point.

I think the reason PTSD is hard to recover from is because in order to feel better your body might convulse and shake while you're releasing the energy. It's not harmful at all -- in fact, it's necessary for some, in order to feel better.

I used to think I was the only one who felt this way. A lot of the messages on the board, except yours, I can't really relate to.

Just know that Peter Levine's way of recovery is what you want. Anything else is just a waste of time. And no, I don't know Peter at all. I wish I did. I wish I had heard about him a long time ago. But having read dozens of books on PTSD or books which focus on DP and panic, I can say that his method leads to complete recovery.

Jeff


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

> im feeling like i might be way worse then some of you and it freaks me out like somebody help me now!!!!!!


What do you know about how I feel?! how dare you say you're feeling worse than me?!


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

Luka said:


> > im feeling like i might be way worse then some of you and it freaks me out like somebody help me now!!!!!!
> 
> 
> What do you know about how I feel?! how dare you say you're feeling worse than me?!


Luka,

I think it's an honest observation, based on other people's posts. I don't think she meant any disrespect by it. She's likely reading everyone else's posts and finding that the degree of their hurt or the degree of their disorientation or depression, etc. is no where near as pronounced as her own.

I picked up on this before too. For instance, a lot of people here aren't agoraphobic and are able to get out and go about their daily lives, without much trouble. On the other hand, a small percentage can't seem to do anything, since the symptoms are so wicked.

I don't think it's a case of not coping well, although that could be for some, I think it's more a case that some people have this a lot worse than others, or really don't have DP disorder itself but rather PTSD with DP symptoms.

Just my two cents.

Jeff


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> What do you know about how I feel?! how dare you say you're feeling worse than me?!


WoW Luka, that's not like you at all!

klt123 was just saying how "she" felt. I don't think she was pointing the finger at any of us.

I have felt the same way many times myself when reading peoples post on here. I think to myself sometimes gosh you people just don't even know! If you all only knew the insain depths of DP/DR that I have been to you would all run from me screaming!!! I have been to a terror that I really do not think can be matched, so I can totaly understand how klt123 feels.

klt123 when you tell yourself that you have it the worst then you are freeking yourself out. It only makes thangs worse to keep telling yourself that you need a savior or a miracle or something because you have it the worse out of everyone. You need to realize that most of this is just in your head and %90 of this is just you freeking yourself out by the way you think!! I can see that you are totaly coherent and therefore your problem is only at a surface level. Just change the way that you think about things and you will start to feel much better. Then you will think to yourself, hmm that was not very hard at all!!! The answers are really much more simple then you would think. 
All of us on dpselfhelp are diffrent and some of us are more messed up then others but the fact is that we are all here to help each other don't forget that.

klt123 if you think you got it bad now. Try doing acid, shrooms and hashish for two months strait with DP/DR and then see how you feel. Trust me there is always someone who has it worse! You are still alive. I bet many people have killed themselves because of this.

We should all try to see the positive in our lives. I am alive today and that is a miracle in itself, so I will just be happy about that for now.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

I don't like comparing illnesses and people to one another. Period. Everybody here is suffering and you can get an idea by the posts people are writing, but you cannot see their daily lives. Klt123 always compares (Katrina vs. dp, cancer vs. dp, us vs. her) and to what point? To see you are so down in life? To feel selfpity? Sjeesh!


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## gem (Aug 10, 2004)

It is very painful to be in this, it hurts so much. All of us who are living with this illness are suffering. I sympathize with what you are going through. Everyone of us who are in this horrible illness wants nothing more than to be well again. When we read the posts here we can see by the words that are written that the person posting is in pain, however we truly cannot see through those words how badly they feel. We can try to measure how much suffering and pain they are in but one cannot see beyond those words. We are the only ones who can really say what we are feeling. It is safe to say we can never truly know what another feels deep within. Expressing ones feelings helps but sometimes not everyone can express their deepest fears so in a kind way I am saying never judge a book by the cover, this is an old saying, unless you are in the shoes of another we do not know how another really feels.

gem.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Klt123 always compares (Katrina vs. dp, cancer vs. dp, us vs. her) and to what point? To see you are so down in life? To feel selfpity? Sjeesh!


That's a good point Luka.

I think that because of my experiences with mixing major Drugs, Dr/Dr, grief, betrayal, fear, anxiety, worry and more betrayal has made me into one of the most "HURT" people on dpselfhelp, I could give anyone on here a run for their money when it comes to DP/DR. A lot of times I think that even the people on dpselfhelp could never really understand what I have been through but I don't come out and openly compair myself either. I feel this way often when I am reading some posts on here, but your right in a way Luka, we shouldn't compair ourseves because it will only make both ends of the comparison feel worse. If we tell ourselves that we are the most sevier case of DP/DR then all we accomplished is makeing ourself feel worse and even more detatched from everyone. And we can offened the people we compair ourselves to as you just did with Luka klt123.

klt123 as you said yourself, it freaks you out when you think this way so why don't you just stop freaking youself out? I think it would be good advise for you to stop making yourself believe that your more sick then you really are.


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## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

Luka said:


> I don't like comparing illnesses and people to one another. Period. Everybody here is suffering and you can get an idea by the posts people are writing, but you cannot see their daily lives. Klt123 always compares (Katrina vs. dp, cancer vs. dp, us vs. her) and to what point? To see you are so down in life? To feel selfpity? Sjeesh!


i agree 100%, luka! i don't think it's right to compare between people, either. there is absolutely no way to know what is worse unless you are a mind reader.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> there is absolutely no way to know what is worse unless you are a mind reader.


That is true and it only would make ourselves feel worse to tell ourselves that we are the "worst case ever".

But I also don't like to judge people because of there feelings, because I know how it feels to feel like the "worst case ever".

It sounded to me like klt123 was just expressing her feelings.


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## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

it just seems like by her expressing her feelings in that way (by making comparisons), she is also belittling a lot of people's horrible situations.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

Precisely AgentCooper!


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

agentcooper said:


> it just seems like by her expressing her feelings in that way (by making comparisons), she is also belittling a lot of people's horrible situations.


If I had to guess, I would bet the farm that KLT is "stuck" in a unique hell that I can identify with, but that not many other people here can relate to.

I don't mean that to sound belitting, but here's an excerpt from something I just posted...

===============================================

I was literally frozen in fear for 11 years. Agoraphobic, when I went out, I would only look down at the ground. I sometimes had to use my hand to turn my head. My head would not even turn on its own, resisting to turn, for fear of what I would see. All of my movements were tentative at best, cripplingly restrictive at worst.

I also always tried to monitor my breathing. Sometimes my bodily organs felt like they weren't in the right place, so I would take my fingers, pencils, etc. and work on trying to push the organs back into place.

I would have red marks all over my body from trying to get things in order. Many times throughout the day, I had this fear that my heart would stop, and that my heart wasn't strong enough to support me. So I would punch myself in the heart area, several times a day, just to try to convince myself that my heart was strong.

I also would take thousands of pictures of myself every day, with a digital camera. Every shot was of my head or my face. All kinds of different angles and various lighting.

I wanted to see myself how the world saw me. From every angle, in every mood. I would smile in some photos, cry in others, laugh in yet others.

I'm glad I stopped doing this stuff, because years and years of doing that is too much.

I'm surprised I didn't ever kill myself. It was just too much.

===============================================

Seriously, how many people in the ENTIRE WORLD can make sense out of that stuff or can personally relate to what I described?

It's a sort of unique hell which persisted for more than a decade. I'm glad I don't see what I wrote above posted by others on the board.

This leads me to believe that whatever I had was incredibly rare.

Kind Regards,

Jeff


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> If I had to guess, I would bet the farm that KLT is "stuck" in a unique hell that I can identify with, but that not many other people here can relate to.


1A I agree with you about her. 
I also feel that she is "stuck" and we are not the one's that can get her to become unstuck. She needs to realize that her health is all up to her and all we can do is give her our advise. I feel very sorry for her and I hope that she can get out of the ditch that she is in because I know how it feels to be "stuck" like that. Keri for your own benefit, stop comparing yourself to others on dpselfhelp because when you do that it only makes you feel more detached from all of us. We all know what you are going through and we all care about you but it will be hard for you to listen to our advise if you keep telling yourself that none of us understands your situation. You need to learn to trust us I think because if you can't trust us then who can you trust?

I will be praying for you Keri and I hope that you get better soon.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

Still no excuse to compare.


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## ashley50 (Feb 17, 2006)

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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I'm sort of feeling like this right now, I'm thinking of leaving this forum too. I'v got other issues besides dp/dr like major insecurity and no self esteem which makes my dp/dr worse because of all the sadness and self pity. or maby dp/dr causes this i don't even know anymore! I feel like a pathetic mess!!!! and lonley as hell and totally pissed that i can't pull myself together


Ashley it sounds like your having a bad day  .
I hope that you don't leave dpselfhlep because I like having you around here  . I know exactly how you feel because I have felt the same way before but when it comes to the lonely issues, dpselfhelp is the best remedy. I hope that you feel better tomorrow. Please don't leave.

Where would you go to anyway?


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## ashley50 (Feb 17, 2006)

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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> LOSTONE:
> thanks for that reply , i am having a very bad day , i feel very lonley, iv tried to stay away from my mom and sister for the past week ( as they too make my dp much worse) but last night i felt too alone so i went over there and unfortunatly my sister was in a bad mood , she got mad at me for something really stupid and even though i apologized anyway she slammed a door in my face! if you even look at her the wrong way she freaks!
> I ended up walking home severely dp'd and dissapointed that my families so nuts. Iv felt extreamly alone today espcially when this guy who's been trying to be my friend starts talking to me and im feeling massivly uncomfortable wanting to get away , I just cannot make friends ,i cannot find a connection with anybody
> 
> I just guess i feel like a no good nobody today,and like i don't even deserve to belong here, but your post has made feel a bit better so thank you ,I don't mean to be a pity case , this lonliness just really sucks


Ashley I know exactly how you feel about your family and about the lonliness. Getting away from my family is the hardest thing that I am going to have to do, but it must be done. I would rather be alone forever then to be around evil people. I will talk to you more about this later through PM. The best thing to do is to realize that the pain you are going through today does not have to be there in your future. You don't know how happy you might be in just 1year from now so just try to remain postive and stay hopeful :wink: .


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

ashley50 said:


> thanks for that reply , i am having a very bad day  , i feel very lonley, iv tried to stay away from my mom and sister for the past week ( as they too make my dp much worse) but last night i felt too alone so i went over there and unfortunatly my sister was in a bad mood , she got mad at me for something really stupid and even though i apologized anyway she slammed a door in my face!  if you even look at her the wrong way she freaks!
> I ended up walking home severely dp'd and dissapointed that my families so nuts. Iv felt extreamly alone today espcially when this guy who's been trying to be my friend starts talking to me and im feeling massivly uncomfortable wanting to get away , I just cannot make friends ,i cannot find a connection with anybody
> 
> I just guess i feel like a no good nobody today,and like i don't even deserve to belong here, but your post has made feel a bit better so thank you ,I don't mean to be a pity case , this lonliness just really sucks


ashley50, I can relate to everything you said here. I went through years of this myself with family and 'friends.' This is a lonely illness....real tough cookie.

I was reading some of the other posts here and about KLT (?) comparing 'situations' and, apparently, trying to say that nobody understood. I can sooooo relate to this!!

When I was in the worst parts of this, I was so deep in it that I could not see outside myself, relate to other's pain. My sister would try to tell me I wasn't the only one that had suffering and pain. It was meant to reassure me. I couldn't get her to see that I already knew that but that there was nothing I could do about 'other' people's pain because I was too awash in my own.

This particular 'illness' is peculiar in some of its manifestations, particularly in the beginning if the person was 'hit' really bad with it and was a sensitive type by nature. It's especially insidious for those types. I was one of them. I got into a total 'survival mode' with an intense need for someone to help me out of it. I literally imploded on myself. When a body/mind is awash in that 'place', it 'gets it' that other people have pain and suffering but THEIR pain and suffering at the moment is sooooo intense that they feel they need immediate attention......911 help from somewhere, somehow and hurts really bad.

It is a kind of invalidation to the 9's whenever someone points out that others also have pain. I use to say "I KNOW THAT!!! BUT I NEED HELP!!!" Does anybody else but me 'get it' about that? I'm past it, thank God! But it was HORRIBLE while it was going on. No compassion, a lot of criticism, invalidation....you name it.. horrible!!

INVALIDATION is the worst thing in the world to inflict on somebody when they're in the worst throes of this stuff. Yeh, I can see now how others would view someone as insensitive to another's pain and come to some less than savory conclusions about that person's 'character.' My god, people! At the worst of this, character assasination is the last thing in the world a deep DPer needs. They're already in hell.....push 'em over the edge, why don't we. They get invalidated, they lash out and then they get jumped on for lashing out. A no win situation. It's horrible...been there, done that, got the t-shirt and the mug. :x

Where's the compassion people?


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Where's the compassion people?


kwgrid I think that your post explained where the compassion is. We are all looking for compassion with very little left over to give out. I am past the despreatian stage and I now realize that the best way to help myself is by trying to help others. Compassion is something that I think is hard for a lot of us because we are soooooo desperate that there is not much room left for compassion.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > Where's the compassion people?
> 
> 
> kwgrid I think that your post explained where the compassion is. We are all looking for compassion with very little left over to give out. I am past the despreatian stage and I now realize that the best way to help myself is by trying to help others. Compassion is something that I think is hard for a lot of us because we are soooooo desperate that there is not much room left for compassion.


Lostone, I think there is a huge misunderstanding in the world about what compassion is.

I've seen some definitions on the 'net of 'compassion.' It makes it sound like some grand and glorious gesture....worthy of a saint or some nonsense like that. BS!

First of all, 'compassion' is NOT an emotion. 'Compassion' is NOT 'sympathy' or 'empathy.' It does not require 'output.' All it is, at the bottom line, is a decision not to add pain where pain already exists. That's all it is. No more, no less.

Now, if somebody is so caught up in their own pain that the only way they feel they can discharge some of it is to cause pain in others that are already in pain, then I guess that's what they have to do.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Now, if somebody is so caught up in their own pain that the only way they feel they can discharge some of it is to cause pain in others that are already in pain, then I guess that's what they have to do.


You must know my family :lol: .

Who are you :shock: .

Yeah thats what they have to do but as for me, I will run away and maintain my sainity! I will go out and live on my own island if I must in order to get away from all of the mean people in this world.

Maybe I will go live with the bears.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

I'm reminded of 'Thumper' in Bambi:

"If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all."

I understand DP and many of its manifestations. Thank god I'm past the worst of it. I realize many are not.

I wrote what I did because I could relate to this 'comparison' thing and what it means when someone tries to say 'my stuff is worse than yours.'

How heroic would any of us be if we were all laying in a war zone somewhere with identical stab wounds to the guts and there were only 2 medtechs, for instance. Which one or how many of us would be saying "No, go see that other fella. They're in a lot worse shape than me." I daresay very damn few.

Only someone that had been through similar 'survival moments' would have the 'juice' to send them elsewhere to help somebody else. That's where compassion comes from....having been there and having had to yank yourself up by your own bootstraps because nobody else would.

But you know what? We're not in a war. We're not in a field somewhere with identical stab wounds. In many ways, this is so much worse. The effects are not easy to see by outsiders. On this forum, of all places, someone should be able to lash out and it not be the start of a word war.

A certain amount of 'growing up' is necessary to get beyond this stuff. Having some of the shortfalls be pointed out is helpful. But it doesn't have to be painful. We don't have to make others suffer because we suffer. We can be bigger than that. I know it's hard. God knows, I know it's hard. Growing up is hard as hell........period.........


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > Now, if somebody is so caught up in their own pain that the only way they feel they can discharge some of it is to cause pain in others that are already in pain, then I guess that's what they have to do.
> 
> 
> You must know my family :lol: .
> ...


Believe it or not, it is possible to get to a place where others' pain and their discharging of it in our direction, won't hurt anymore. We don't get 'hard.' We don't 'shut down.' We simply begin to recognize that pain is everywhere. We weren't singled out. Others attack us, in whatever form, and we don't take it personally because we've been in the same place. We realize that it's not because they don't love us. Love doesn't have anything to do with. Tina Turner: "What's Love Got to Do With It." NOTHING!

We have way too many preconceived notions of what life is suppose to be like. Too many preconceived notions of what 'love' is. Part of 'growing up' is recognizing and accepting that it's not what we thought it was...it's not what we were taught...it's not what 'the world' says it is....period.

Simple acceptance of what we've seen and heard. That's the hardest thing for DPer's. We NEED it to not be that way...but it is....


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Believe it or not, it is possible to get to a place where others' pain and their discharging of it in our direction, won't hurt anymore. We don't get 'hard.' We don't 'shut down.' We simply begin to recognize that pain is everywhere. We weren't singled out. Others attack us, in whatever form, and we don't take it personally because we've been in the same place. We realize that it's not because they don't love us. Love doesn't have anything to do with. Tina Turner: "What's Love Got to Do With It." NOTHING!
> 
> We have way too many preconceived notions of what life is suppose to be like. Too many preconceived notions of what 'love' is. Part of 'growing up' is recognizing and accepting that it's not what we thought it was...it's not what we were taught...it's not what 'the world' says it is....period.
> 
> Simple acceptance of what we've seen and heard. That's the hardest thing for DPer's. We NEED it to not be that way...but it is....


I don't agree with that. I don't have preconceived ideas of what love is. I KNOW what love is and I know who has real love. Getting away from the people that do not know what love is, I think is very important. I am religious and the bible tells me not to associate with people that do not know what love is and therefore I am not going to anymore. If you continue to put out your love only to have it trampled on by others then you will become very depressed over time. I have learned that I should only give my love to people that know what love is and that are willing to give love back to me. As for everyone else, I no longer care what happenes to them. The people in this world that do not know what love is are all dead to me and that is the way it will always be. I will try to help those people but I will not show them my own love until I can see that they know what love is and how to have respect for it.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> I don't agree with that. I don't have preconceived ideas of what love is. I KNOW what love is and I know who has real love. Getting away from the people that do not know what love is, I think is very important. I am religious and the bible tells me not to associate with people that do not know what love is and therefore I am not going to anymore. If you continue to put out your love only to have it trampled on by others then you will become very depressed over time. I have learned that I should only give my love to people that know what love is and that are willing to give love back to me. As for everyone else, I no longer care what happenes to them. The people in this world that do not know what love is are all dead to me and that is the way it will always be. I will try to help those people but I will not show them my own love until I can see that they know what love is and how to have respect for it.


I 'know' what love is, too. I was literally lifted off my sofa with it.

I honestly 'get it' about what you're saying. Nobody said you have to be around 'unloving' people (if that's the description) when it hurts you to do so. I certainly removed myself from as much of it as I could. Yes, it can be very depressing to be repeatedly subjected to certain others' behavior that causes us pain...to be 'reminded', so to speak, of the lack of love, not just with them but in the whole world.

I'm gonna say this and you will no doubt take exception to it but if you keep 'seeking' and not take where you are for the last word in 'the way it is,' you're gonna discover some amazing things. You won't avoid anybody. You'll get out in the middle of all it. You won't feel pressured to do anything about it. You won't feel bitter or resentful. You won't take any of it personally. You won't have this 'anti' toward people that don't behave the way you think they should. You will feel so safe and secure within yourself that your presence will actually change the way other people behave without your doing anything or saying anything in particular. You'll 'allow' without judgement. You'll be FREE!


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

LOSTONE said:


> > Believe it or not, it is possible to get to a place where others' pain and their discharging of it in our direction, won't hurt anymore. We don't get 'hard.' We don't 'shut down.' We simply begin to recognize that pain is everywhere. We weren't singled out. Others attack us, in whatever form, and we don't take it personally because we've been in the same place. We realize that it's not because they don't love us. Love doesn't have anything to do with. Tina Turner: "What's Love Got to Do With It." NOTHING!
> >
> > We have way too many preconceived notions of what life is suppose to be like. Too many preconceived notions of what 'love' is. Part of 'growing up' is recognizing and accepting that it's not what we thought it was...it's not what we were taught...it's not what 'the world' says it is....period.
> >
> ...


P. S. It's easy to love lovable people. The test of love is how well you love the unlovable ones. That's Biblical. Isn't that your thing?


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2006)

Lostone wrote: "I am religious and the bible tells me not to associate with people that do not know what love is and therefore I am not going to anymore."

This falls under what I was saying about not having to be around them. That doesn't mean you can't love them. 'Love' is not an 'outpouring' of something. 'Love' allows. 'Love' simply IS. Human beings are the ones that 'muck up' what real love is with our judgements about it. That's the mind/body understanding. Rising above the paradox of duality in our awareness is what reveals what true love is.

It's not necessary to get into a lot of stuff with me about what I just said. I've already been there myself with all the arguments, justifications, Biblical references, etc. I've 'seen' beyond duality....felt it...'got it.' Just because I can't yet stay there 24/7 and I can't yet walk on water, doesn't mean I haven't experienced the reality of it. All 'masters' were real people...not the myths that are perpetrated by those that don't understand and want to make 'monuments' out of them. Make it seem that they were 'unique' and us lowly people must worship them and beg their forgiveness and please, please, please save us ...without our having to do anything ourselves. Bah humbug!


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> It's not necessary to get into a lot of stuff with me about what I just said.


That is exactly what I was thinking when I read that!

I realize that we are still on the same page about things and I agree with everything in your last 3 posts.

It is not necessare to get any further into this because I think that we both understand what love is and how to keep ourselves pure of the evil around us. 



> I 'know' what love is, too. I was literally lifted off my sofa with it.


I have never been able to fly but I imagen that the feeling must have been great  ! :lol:


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## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

kwgrid said:


> Where's the compassion people?


it's hard to have compassion for someone who has no compassion for anyone else. i haven't ever heard klt give support to anyone. by comparing her situation to everyone else's situation (even if they aren't comparable such as comparing dp/dr to cancer or hurricane katrina victims) she is invalidating everyone else. i'm sorry if i'm being mean, but it really is offensive to me. i have had close friends and family who have had cancer (and died from it) and it was truely horrible! the amount of pain and sadness they went through...no one should belittle.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

There were some good and bad things said in this thread but in my opinion, it should now be locked. If klt123 did not realize yet that comparisons are offensive to people then she never will. I get the feeling that she don't even read peoples responses anyway.


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