# Depersonalization Disorder is Progressive



## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

I've taken the time to read several of the posts on this terrific site, but there is one factor of Depersonalization Disorder that is not discussed very much... This is a "progressive" disorder...

I'm in my 50's now and some of the descriptions of how this disorder manifests itself are how I may have felt when I was in my teens or twenties, but now it's much, much different.

I have almost absolutly zero anxiety or fear about anything at all -- even my own death. It is my understanding that in the early stages your receptors are showered and "overdosed" with neuroconductors by the emmiters, until damage occurs. In addition, changes actually occur in your brain, to reflect the changes in your biochemistry.

I want everyone to know that in the latter stanges, perhaps the goal could be to have a bit of fear or anxiety about something and to repair your neurological system. Flat affect is often mistaken as depression in those with this disorder, while actually this may be a situation of "hypostimulation," due to receptor damage.

If caught in the early stages, however, Depersonalization Disorder does reflect most descriptions I found on this website.

Again, GREAT SITE!

Sincerely,
Ricky


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Once again I don't agree with you. DP is not a progressive disorder. You can go on and develop anxiety and/or depression that are co-morbid to it. But no this is not a progressive disorder. My doctor always tells me that it gets better as time goes on. I don't know where you find your information bud.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

I dont think its progressive either. i mean, if you continued to do a lot of drugs it could get worse, but that would be because of the use of drugs not the disorder itself. I think it's a more come and go kind of thing. i think most people who have had it for say 5 years or more will tell you it's been about the same


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## Fabricio (Dec 22, 2010)

i believe that is correct but for chronic dp


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Rodrigo said:


> i believe that is correct but for chronic dp


You realize that if DP is something that gets "progressively" worse than we probably would eventually not be able to get out of bed or something along the lines of that. Long term doesn't mean progressive, it means long term. Progressive means something that successfully increases in intensity.


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## Fabricio (Dec 22, 2010)

Jayd said:


> You realize that if DP is something that gets "progressively" worse than we probably would eventually not be able to get out of bed or something along the lines of that. Long term doesn't mean progressive, it means long term. Progressive means something that successfully increases in intensity.


weel in my first years whit dp i can remember how is the emotion to certain situations. Now i can´t remenber this so ... in my case i say is progressive, not to the point of leaving invalid, but is progressive and no return


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Rodrigo said:


> weel in my first years whit dp i can remember how is the emotion to certain situations. Now i can´t remenber this so ... in my case i say is progressive, not to the point of leaving invalid, but is progressive and no return


I will say that with DP you will most likely experience different symptoms that you never used to feel. I do understand what you mean. But just because one symptom is worse then before doesn't mean DP progresses. Maybe you find other symptoms have improved?


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## Fabricio (Dec 22, 2010)

Jayd said:


> I will say that with DP you will most likely experience different symptoms that you never used to feel. I do understand what you mean. But just because one symptom is worse then before doesn't mean DP progresses. Maybe you find other symptoms have improved?


I also understand what you mean because in most cases dp is transient, this cases aren´t progressive


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## Angela2006 (Jan 20, 2006)

I have had DP/DR for 38 years, and I don't believe it has gotten progressively worse. I deal with it much better now than I did when I was younger, but the symptons have changed a bit, but they haven't gotten better or worse.


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Angela2006 said:


> I have had DP/DR for 38 years, and I don't believe it has gotten progressively worse. I deal with it much better now than I did when I was younger, but the symptons have changed a bit, but they haven't gotten better or worse.


^ This is what I'm talking about. I don't believe it progressively gets worse. And I am glad to hear that you deal with it much better now Angela









Jayden


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## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

As science continues to look at this condition they are finding out more and more about the neurophysiology and neurochemistry involved... You will find older sites that note that it is not progressive -- and with DPD "older" may mean only a couple of years -- but it is progressive and alters the nervous system and brain.

To respond to another comment... Yes. Chronic DPD...

If you have a case of transient DPD, or the early stages of chronic DPD, that outcomes may be different with assorted treatment, but if you've lived with noting but extreme violence and threats of violence from the time of your first memories into late adulthood, you have been biologically altered. How much of this physical/chemical alteration that is apparent, depends on the exposure -- type of exposure and length of exposure.

For those of you who don't understand how DPD can be "progressive," I can understand that, since there are relatively few professionals in the United States who have specialized in, or have much experience with DPD. and there are even fewer professionals who understand it's progression from a neuroscience perspective.

Change is occurring quickly in the study of DPD...

With continued exposure to violent and highly stressful environments, DPD IS PROGRESSIVE.


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## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

Rodrigo said:


> weel in my first years whit dp i can remember how is the emotion to certain situations. Now i can´t remenber this so ... in my case i say is progressive, not to the point of leaving invalid, but is progressive and no return


Yes... In the early stages it can be transient, then become chronic over time as they are finding that neurological changes occur with continued exposure to triggers. This actually includes changes in your body chemistry, nerves and how your brain functions. There are VISIBLE difference in the brain on MRI's for those with transient and chronic DPD and as a person progresses from transient to chronic, the brain changes too. Documented...


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## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

Rodrigo said:


> weel in my first years whit dp i can remember how is the emotion to certain situations. Now i can´t remenber this so ... in my case i say is progressive, not to the point of leaving invalid, but is progressive and no return


I think a big factor may be exposure and types of exposure... If the last exposure would have been when I was eight years old, maybe... But, I ended up living in several countries, going through several wars, etc, etc, etc... I'm not going to make a bring list of things I've been exposed to, but the emotional/physical abuse, then cultural assimilation issues are known to be factors -- it's been consistent exposure to one, the other, or both all my life.

It is only logical that someone with transient DPD, placed over and over in situations of violence/abuse and cultural assimilation would/could develop chronic DPD.


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## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

kate_edwin said:


> I dont think its progressive either. i mean, if you continued to do a lot of drugs it could get worse, but that would be because of the use of drugs not the disorder itself. I think it's a more come and go kind of thing. i think most people who have had it for say 5 years or more will tell you it's been about the same


The "drug" can be your own body chemistry by way of continued exposure to emotional/physical abuse and or violent situations, natural disasters, etc. It changes the "physical" you...


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Numb Ricky said:


> With continued exposure to violent and highly stressful environments, DPD IS PROGRESSIVE.


No offense but are you a scientist, doctor or psychiatrist ?? I'm pretty sure that you aren't knowledgeable enough to say that DPD is progressive. Like if that's your opinion that's one thing but your saying it like it's fact. Look at angela's comment, shes had DP for 38 years which might be considered chronic, and from her "chronic" experience she even said it didn't progress. Progression doesn't mean it lasts a long time. it means it successfully increases in intensity. And like I said before, if that were the case then people would probably be so messed up from DP they couldn't get out of bed.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Alzheimers is progressive. Dp is not. Dp does not change the brain, it happens because the brain got changed. If it was progressive, we would see it, right here. I don't know about you, but that's not what I see. I've been around people with progressive or un treatable mental illness, the vast majority of people here don't fit that picture. A progressive disorder would get worse despite treatment, not only without treatment. Yes I can get worse before it gets better, but that isn't the definition of progressive either


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2012)

Interesting.

"Progressive" ... IDK. I call it, as with all mental illness "evolving."

*I am 53 and have had this my entire life.
Early years it was initially "feeling odd." Then later it became horrible. With meds in my late 20s it was "bearable." It was more "episodic" -- some periods of "clarity" for weeks? a month, or DP/DR less intense -- when I was young. By my twenties, chronic ... and again I mean 24/7, 365 days a year, even in my dreams, every single day of my life. And some days it can be horrible. But I have fewer horrible episodes, and less daily fear of this than when young. I am more angry than afraid ... more depressed than afraid than when I was young. But I also know that I will always have depression, anxiety, and DP/DR - for me, I don't see it going away. I remember reality, but I have had no small "taste" of it for years. And I also haven't "gone psychotic." Plain old DP/DR, anxiety, depression.*

But my quality of life is poor. THAT, I believe came from abuse as a child. I still am not 100% certain the abuse caused my mental illnesses, but it made this more difficult to cope with. It made me a less resilient individual. But I am still the same person underneath all of this. Same talents, intelligence. Though anxiety messes with my memory, etc. Same with depression and DP. And I think I have these illnesses all comorbid with each other. But having a chronic illness can cause depression. A double whammy.

I also am clinically depressed and severely anxious. I would say the anxiety and depression are worse. As I have gotten older, I have had other physical problems, and these challenges would be easier to deal with without DP/DR. On the other hand when looking at journals I wrote as a young teen, and feelings I had as a young girl, the depression and anxiety have always been pretty bad.

You can't make a generalization. I'd say, if you have a tendency to DP/DR, anxiety, depression, etc. ... severe/clinical ... it is something that is "with you" your entire life. There is no cure per say. There can be remissions and then recurrences. This is true of many disorders ... medical and neurological. Also, say bipolar ... a person ALWAYS has bipolar, but can be stable for years, then have a manic episode, stabilize, then do well again. Others are seriously ill and don't get a break. I have known people over the years who have gone w/out DP/DR since childhood, then it came back in their 30s, went away, came back in their 50s. I'd say, predisposition to a disorder than goes into remission and recurs, usually during times of stress.

One always HAS the illness, propensity, predisposition, and stress can bring illnesses to the surface.

I have arthritis now. That is progressive and there is no cure. I'm not thrilled. I have had breast cancer ... I am a "survivor." They never call me cured. It could come back, or I could never die from it or get breast cancer again. Someone with AIDS is not cured, they can be treated and live longer. Diabetes is progressive. But in all cases of progressive disorders each person has a different path. And so many factors affect outcome, including support systems, good health care, lifestyle, etc.

Have to say, nothing is worse than a mental illness. I'd take all the other physical disorders I have ... but would be able to enjoy life so much more without DP/DR, anxiety (very high), and depression.

Each case is individual.
Interesting topic, but words/semantics get confusing here. I'd say illnesses wax and wane, evolve, devolve, are exacerbated or go into remission. And yes Alzheimer's is progressive, clearly, so is heart disease. Look at each person and each illness individually.

Now my hands are going to hurt like Hell. Don't get old, lol. But don't give up. Life is one challenge after another.


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Huggy Bear said:


> For me, the symptoms never changed, but the way I perceive and think about them has changed over time.
> 
> I got progressively worse in the first couple of years, but then I reached some kind of steady state as I learned to live with the symptoms.
> 
> ...


Thats fucking horrible...


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

More semantics Sandy, lol

_pro·gres·sive_ - Happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step

_dy·nam·ic _- (of a process or system) Characterized by constant change, activity, or progress

It seems easier to describe symptoms in these terms than the whole disorder. Some of my crap got _progressively_ worse. Some _progressively_ better. By summer, who knows?

But it seems that most initially get worse, stabilize, and then improve. Some get better altogether. For each of us there are keys to improvement - but as you eloquently point out, we all age &#8230;

Learning to enjoy the moment, to feel a positive thing, is vital. Isolation is particularly destructive. DP, anxiety, depression, etc., often drive one to isolation. Mental illness can be surprisingly painful and frustrating.

So, we need to take _progressive_ steps. Sometimes stopping to rest. Then on with life, at least what we have. And try out different keys.

*Sometimes I think we should all get together on Times Square and commit mass suicide, flash mob style. At least it would create awareness of the condition and would put us out of our misery*

Yep, but it might create a negative awareness. Instead of, "we should help these poor suffering creatures" people may say, "what a bunch of stupid SODs".

A recent post said, *&#8230; but this is something that we have all got to fix ourselves*

Have to agree - the forum name is "dpselfhelp". But 'togetherness' is part of 'personalizing'/'intimacy'. We can also help each other.

No other magic words to say for now. Just hope that all get to feel _progressively_ better.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't thinkass suicide should be suggested or joked about, there's are some very fragile people here


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## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

Visual said:


> More semantics Sandy, lol
> 
> _pro·gres·sive_ - Happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step
> 
> ...


I read some of the replies that appear helpful to downright hostile -- LOL!

Actually, if you really think about it, most the advice by professionals is to get out of your head and not dwell on the internl and your DPD. So, logically, besides knowing that there are others with DPD, a board like this (or support group) only serves to put the focus back on your DPD; cat chasing the tail.

With continued exposure to triggers, DPD does progress.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Numb Ricky said:


> I read some of the replies that appear helpful to downright hostile -- LOL!
> 
> Actually, if you really think about it, most the advice by professionals is to get out of your head and not dwell on the internl and your DPD. So, logically, besides knowing that there are others with DPD, a board like this (or support group) only serves to put the focus back on your DPD; cat chasing the tail.
> 
> With continued exposure to triggers, DPD does progress.


Unfortunately, there is some hostility. Often is seems to be disagreement of methods or reasons/explanations. Or some forms of intolerance.

*most the advice by professionals is to get out of your head and not dwell on the internal and your DPD*

I don't know what most say, but in general too much self-focus robs time and energy from focusing on living and enjoying others.

*Phantasm* had an interesting quote from a critic of Freud, _"The most dangerous feature of psychoanalitic practice is its encouragement of the most disastrous trait of the neurotic, his habit of introspection."_ http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29642-whole-forum-on-freud

The professionals I've seen give quite a variety and sometimes contradictory counsel. But all encourage looking at the glass as "half-full" not "half-empty" - seek to 'see' the positive. As for DP, all the progress I've made has been either 'pushing the right button' (perhaps you would say 'trigger') or hyper-focusing on a positive feeling until I learn to feel and sustain it naturally.

I have to say that my DP is _progressively_ better. It's the encephalopathy that is the biggest problem.

Each person is different, some really get frightened by comments on this forum. Kate's concern above about suicide is warranted.

Others get relief knowing they are not alone with this. And appreciate ideas to try. I feel a sort on kinship to some here, sadly this is cyberspace and will probably never meet anyone face to face.

So take what you can get that is good from every situation you encounter. If you identify things that keep getting you down, then its probably best to avoid them.

Best of health to you all&#8230;


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

Interesting discussion. People who begin drinking alcohol as teens, often find it has a different impact in their 40's. The alcohol is the same. People age "progressively". I suppose you could say that alcoholism is a "progressive illness", even if the quantities of alcohol consumed remain the same. So, the impact of DP could be progressive, even if symptoms remain static. 
Glad to see that Dreamer is still breathing and posting. Wonder if she has googled "the wounds that time won't heal" and read the article about recent research on child abuse and impaired neurological developement leading to psychiatric vulnerability.
Here is another article associating DP symptoms with Temporal Lobe Epilepsy:
http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/11/2/92.full.pdf
_A history of brief stereotypical episodes of depersonalisation
accompanied by cognitive and/or behavioural
disturbance is suggestive of temporal lobe epilepsy
and should be investigated appropriately._


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## Numb Ricky (Dec 31, 2011)

Visual said:


> Unfortunately, there is some hostility. Often is seems to be disagreement of methods or reasons/explanations. Or some forms of intolerance.
> 
> *most the advice by professionals is to get out of your head and not dwell on the internal and your DPD*
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input and comments. I totally understand what you are saying...

The item on suicide -- I read an article that the dissociation disorders are the number one indicator of multiple suicide attempts, yet its connection has not been studied; the article did not break down the disorders by DSM classification. When I made multiple attempts at suicide over a three day period, the mechanisms at work were totally different than that of those who might be considered "depressed." When I made any attempt to describe what was going on, my psychologist and psychiatrist always came up with "depression," but I had seen people and heard them describe what was going on... It was a totally different experience -- at least in my case.

My goal and objective related to having Depersonalization Disorder, is to get rid of the "disorder" part -- adapt and live with it and have a productive life as much as possible. I think that's possible and that is my "glass full" scenario...

Please don't get me wrong with my comments -- it was a "blessing" to find this site after I learned that I had this condition -- you'll never know how much this helped me. Thank you!


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Numb Ricky said:


> Thanks for your input and comments. I totally understand what you are saying...
> 
> The item on suicide -- I read an article that the dissociation disorders are the number one indicator of multiple suicide attempts, yet its connection has not been studied; the article did not break down the disorders by DSM classification. When I made multiple attempts at suicide over a three day period, the mechanisms at work were totally different than that of those who might be considered "depressed." When I made any attempt to describe what was going on, my psychologist and psychiatrist always came up with "depression," but I had seen people and heard them describe what was going on... It was a totally different experience -- at least in my case.
> 
> ...


Glad you understood. I often get worried that my posts might offend or hurt or be misunderstood. Or arrogance might blind me from understanding what others say or suffer &#8230; or from possible options. Probably this is part-and-parcel of being depersonalized - difficulty with personal connection. Though, even the most 'healthy' must make effort to connect with 'accuracy'. Perhaps this is a though that will help us - to know that having problems 'connecting' is normal &#8230; we just suffer it by the mega-dose.

*adapt and live with it and have a productive life as much as possible*

That is it in a nut shell. What we all want. I'll add, at the risk of being greedy, to feel dignity and pleasure, especially with interactions with others.


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## mattv30 (Aug 1, 2011)

geez....DP is NOT progressive!!! I guarantee you that!! Sure, I only had it seven months, but I talked to one of the most qualified psychiatrists in the world, dr. evan torch, who charged a lot to talk to, who's specialty is DP, he's been in the field for over 40 years and helped people recover completely. He told me that it's our perception of DP that changes, not the actual condition. Yes, you can feel more numb and unreal, but it is not progressive in the least. I've also heard stories of people who had DP for over 30 years and completely recovered and became their old selves again, this condition doesn't cause permanent brain damage, it just doesn't. If you use drugs or whatever a lot, then yes, you might cause yourself brain damage, but you can't convince me that it does when i've read plenty of stories of people recovering from years upon years of having this condition and returned to normal completely.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

Long time sufferers can get well - so one should not feel 'doomed'. (I am 'healing' after 40 years)

But I ask, since dissociation is a perceptual issue, what do you mean when you say "*He told me that it's our perception of DP that changes, not the actual condition*?"

Perception is a dynamic process and it is the very nature of sentience/consciousness. The 'dynamicness' is called learning and involves plasticity (changes in neuronal connections).


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

I don't believe it is commonly progressive.


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

university girl said:


> I don't believe it is commonly progressive.


Your right, it isn't. I am reading Stranger to Myself which Daphne simeon states that DP is not a progressive disorder.


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## cubixrube (Aug 27, 2011)

I think my biggest fear is for DP to ruin my ambition during my prime years. I want to go places in my life, but it's SO difficult when you are just gone. You all know the feeling. When I go out, people just look like they are from another planet to me. I can hardly connect to my gf of almost 4 years, despite the fact that I know I love her. I've had DP for nearly 4 years, on and off, but when I see a post from people who have suffered for 30, 40 years, it makes me worry a lot. How has life been for you all? Does it prevent you from achieving what you want? I will not let this bullshit stop me from reaching my goals. I'm 19, turning 20 in a few months. I've never been one to give up, even when I've been kicked down to the lowest of lows. I have been so far gone that I felt like I was about to just pixalate into nothingness. It's hell. But I don't quit







.

Wow just went on a rant, sorry if that's irrelevant. To tie it all in, I don't believe it is progressive, I believe our perspectives on DP change over the years, as well as the way we handle it.


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## thru the derealized lens (Oct 23, 2011)

Huggy Bear said:


> Sometimes I think we should all get together on Times Square and commit mass suicide, flash mob style. At least it would create awareness of the condition and would put us out of our misery. Any martyrs out there who want to join in?


I kind of love that someone named Huggy Bear just invited me to a Times Square mass suicide.


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