# Losing one's worldview and belief system



## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I was just watching this video and it talked about how losing one's mind consciousness system can kill a being. I lost my belief system right before I DP'd and am wondering if there are any others on here who can relate? Here is the video if you wanna check it out.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

yeah i can relate to that. for me reading about Buddhism, samsara, etc, was the main trigger of my DP. before my world-view was much more simple: you live this life, and die forever...thats it, the end, no more consciousness, no reincarnation, nothing. You just live this one life, born out of chance, and die, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. so, i didnt give a fuck about anything and just did what i liked most, without fear of jugdment, without fear of heaven/hell. then suddenly due to Buddhism i was obsessed about karma, reincarnations, being trapped in a cycle of life-death-life, descending to hell, only to rise up to heaven, become some god, and then fall again from grace and into the lowest hell, and again crawling up the fucking ladder, in an endless metaphysical maze, trapped in some perverse wheel of suffering. Also mind-fuckers like Eckart Tolle and his Power of Now, and all the non-ego new age bulshit, shattered my world-view and self-view, and left me a sorry-ass, paranoid android, i was broken. i was afraid of everything, mainly my self, my feelings, etc, so I started repressing everything in me.. and went down that train to *real* hell, DP.

now i have corrected my worldview and hold a much more possitive belief system. this was the main thing that got me out of DP.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

> Also mind-fuckers like Eckart Tolle and his Power of Now, and all the non-ego new age bulshit, shattered my world-view and self-view, and left me a sorry-ass, paranoid android


LOL


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## Jeremiah (Mar 1, 2011)

Abraxas said:


> now i have corrected my worldview and hold a much more possitive belief system. this was the main thing that got me out of DP.


you got out? thats good


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Loosing your worldview is a terrifying thing, essentially it is installed in you by your parents when growing up so in a certain way it is your ground of reality, so for it it break down and for you to see the falsities in it can bring up all sorts of conflicting feelings because your worldview is what keeps you as a rooted person connected to your parents and within your place in the family and for you to break that is to change the whole dynamic not just for you but for everyone. So your worldview breaking down has the potential to cause distress and discomfort not just for you but for your parents too and if you love them that is incredibly hard because it can expose then to the fact that much of what they base their lives around is a lie and is fictional, so many people try to cling to their old worldview even when it's broken down to try to spare their family and to try to avoid the conflict it could create, because if you start living from a different value system from your family they may turn on you, may ostracise you, you might lose their love, so some people would rather live a fake unreal life than risk all that. Also your family may do all they can to try bring you back to your old worldview, they may do all they can to keep you unreal even though it's killing you.

Within cults like Scientology where the whole family is raised in an unreal environment, everyone behaves unreal and you create an unreal personality to fit in, until one day you have some crisis or you take a drug or something which shows you the unreality of it all then you are faced with a choice of leaving and becoming more real but at the risk of loosing your family and all that security. Most families are not so different than cults in a certain sense that there is a belief system in place, there are unwritten family rules and hierarchys, which in reality are bullshit but if you see that and change it it is a threat to the whole structure and everyones comfort crutches. So breaking free from your worldview can bring up all sorts of anxieties and even fears of death I think.

This is what's happened to me anyway, I took a drug and saw how unreal my persona was, how many of the things that go on in my family is based on bullshit and lies, but I guess I am a bit of a coward as I still am trying to cling onto my old self and fit back in with my family rather than cause them anxiety by being more real and truthful, maybe I have to take the risk of them hating me in order to become real.


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## sunyata samsara (Feb 18, 2011)

Pablo said:


> Loosing your worldview is a terrifying thing, essentially it is installed in you by your parents when growing up so in a certain way it is your ground of reality, so for it it break down and for you to see the falsities in it can bring up all sorts of conflicting feelings because your worldview is what keeps you as a rooted person connected to your parents and within your place in the family and for you to break that is to change the whole dynamic not just for you but for everyone. So your worldview breaking down has the potential to cause distress and discomfort not just for you but for your parents too and if you love them that is incredibly hard because it can expose then to the fact that much of what they base their lives around is a lie and is fictional, so many people try to cling to their old worldview even when it's broken down to try to spare their family and to try to avoid the conflict it could create, because if you start living from a different value system from your family they may turn on you, may ostracise you, you might lose their love, so some people would rather live a fake unreal life than risk all that. Also your family may do all they can to try bring you back to your old worldview, they may do all they can to keep you unreal even though it's killing you.
> 
> Within cults like Scientology where the whole family is raised in an unreal environment, everyone behaves unreal and you create an unreal personality to fit in, until one day you have some crisis or you take a drug or something which shows you the unreality of it all then you are faced with a choice of leaving and becoming more real but at the risk of loosing your family and all that security. Most families are not so different than cults in a certain sense that there is a belief system in place, there are unwritten family rules and hierarchys, which in reality are bullshit but if you see that and change it it is a threat to the whole structure and everyones comfort crutches. So breaking free from your worldview can bring up all sorts of anxieties and even fears of death I think.
> 
> This is what's happened to me anyway, I took a drug and saw how unreal my persona was, how many of the things that go on in my family is based on bullshit and lies, but I guess I am a bit of a coward as I still am trying to cling onto my old self and fit back in with my family rather than cause them anxiety by being more real and truthful, maybe I have to take the risk of them hating me in order to become real.


"Families are not so different than cults" lulz so true, i never thought about that.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

The people who made this video are a weird new-age cult based in South Africa. This girl claims to be posessed or channeling people.

A book like this will be more helpful.
http://www.amazon.co...g/dp/0553381407


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## Lionheart (Feb 7, 2011)

It was so easy before DP. You just make an effort to make sure you can eat, chill with friends, get a carreer, get a woman, etc...in the end you get old and you die. I can remember I started to question everything when DP began and I wasn't really concious of it yet. Now I don't know what to think of life.
It's even more confusing when the people around you just go their way while you're lost in this huge mindfuck.
I think it's best you just stop thinking, set some goals that would make you happy and work up to them. I think that way you can retain your view somehow.
Perhaps this is a fase that we go through. And when we went through it, we have a more clear perception of everything.


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## Felicity (Feb 7, 2011)

Pablo said:


> Loosing your worldview is a terrifying thing, essentially it is installed in you by your parents when growing up so in a certain way it is your ground of reality, so for it it break down and for you to see the falsities in it can bring up all sorts of conflicting feelings because your worldview is what keeps you as a rooted person connected to your parents and within your place in the family and for you to break that is to change the whole dynamic not just for you but for everyone. So your worldview breaking down has the potential to cause distress and discomfort not just for you but for your parents too and if you love them that is incredibly hard because it can expose then to the fact that much of what they base their lives around is a lie and is fictional, so many people try to cling to their old worldview even when it's broken down to try to spare their family and to try to avoid the conflict it could create, because if you start living from a different value system from your family they may turn on you, may ostracise you, you might lose their love, so some people would rather live a fake unreal life than risk all that. Also your family may do all they can to try bring you back to your old worldview, they may do all they can to keep you unreal even though it's killing you.
> 
> Within cults like Scientology where the whole family is raised in an unreal environment, everyone behaves unreal and you create an unreal personality to fit in, until one day you have some crisis or you take a drug or something which shows you the unreality of it all then you are faced with a choice of leaving and becoming more real but at the risk of loosing your family and all that security. Most families are not so different than cults in a certain sense that there is a belief system in place, there are unwritten family rules and hierarchys, which in reality are bullshit but if you see that and change it it is a threat to the whole structure and everyones comfort crutches. So breaking free from your worldview can bring up all sorts of anxieties and even fears of death I think.
> 
> This is what's happened to me anyway, I took a drug and saw how unreal my persona was, how many of the things that go on in my family is based on bullshit and lies, but I guess I am a bit of a coward as I still am trying to cling onto my old self and fit back in with my family rather than cause them anxiety by being more real and truthful, maybe I have to take the risk of them hating me in order to become real.


Great post. I am not surprised you're trying to cling to your old beliefs, the same thing happened to me and I reacted the same. Now I'm basically back in the game so to speak, but with the added knowledge that so much of social relations are based on fiction. The feelings that arise from that fiction are quite real though, and I guess it's because of them that people don't want to be exposed to the truth, the lies create a safety blanket which protects us from fear and other unpleasant emotions. You could say the whole structure of society is an attempt to avoid pain. It sucks though because at the same time you're limited by the bullshit, having no perspective on it you start to believe things like you're supposed to go to school, get a job, raise a family, etc. and when things don't work out neatly as planned you start getting angry and upset and believe things like you're worthless or that others are terrible people, and suddenly suicide and revenge seem like very logical ideas. In reality everyone's mostly just ignorant and running towards what they percieve as pleasure and away from pain. we're like Pavlov's dogs, we've been conditioned from birth to respond to certain cues, and when the truth hits you in the face that none of it is real and you've been so blind, it feels like death. So you keep jumping over the fence every time you hear a bell ring, keep salivating when you smell meat. We're chemically addicted to pleasure and that pleasure is the direct result of associations we make about the world, associations that are not directly related to anything in the real world. Yet those same associations if not seen as the mere beliefs that they are have the potential to keep us stuck in unproductive habits, keep us repeating the same mistakes, and eventually, keep us from learning and fully experiencing life. The fiction gradually becomes less of a security blanket and more of a prison.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Felicity said:


> Great post. I am not surprised you're trying to cling to your old beliefs, the same thing happened to me and I reacted the same. Now I'm basically back in the game so to speak, but with the added knowledge that so much of social relations are based on fiction. The feelings that arise from that fiction are quite real though, and I guess it's because of them that people don't want to be exposed to the truth, the lies create a safety blanket which protects us from fear and other unpleasant emotions. You could say the whole structure of society is an attempt to avoid pain. It sucks though because at the same time you're limited by the bullshit, having no perspective on it you start to believe things like you're supposed to go to school, get a job, raise a family, etc. and when things don't work out neatly as planned you start getting angry and upset and believe things like you're worthless or that others are terrible people, and suddenly suicide and revenge seem like very logical ideas. In reality everyone's mostly just ignorant and running towards what they percieve as pleasure and away from pain. we're like Pavlov's dogs, we've been conditioned from birth to respond to certain cues, and when the truth hits you in the face that none of it is real and you've been so blind, it feels like death. So you keep jumping over the fence every time you hear a bell ring, keep salivating when you smell meat. We're chemically addicted to pleasure and that pleasure is the direct result of associations we make about the world, associations that are not directly related to anything in the real world. Yet those same associations if not seen as the mere beliefs that they are have the potential to keep us stuck in unproductive habits, keep us repeating the same mistakes, and eventually, keep us from learning and fully experiencing life. The fiction gradually becomes less of a security blanket and more of a prison.


Yeah I totally agree, especially this: "You could say the whole structure of society is an attempt to avoid pain". The issue for me at the moment is that I feel that the only place to get any sort of love or acceptance is through my family and old friends who I grew up with, but my whole way of being around them is false in a certain sense, so in my head at the moment it's like I have the choice between love/family/friendship vs being real. It is reassuring to talk to people here who get it though, if I said half this stuff to people I know they would probably look at me like i'm completely insane.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo and Felicity I am totally right there with the both of you. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights, I can relate to being stuck in this place. What can we do about this? Would it help to let our family and friends know that we no longer hold to the same structure as them anymore?


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Pablo and Felicity I am totally right there with the both of you. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights, I can relate to being stuck in this place. What can we do about this? Would it help to let our family and friends know that we no longer hold to the same structure as them anymore?


I'm not sure, it seems to be whenever I am around them I just fall back into old habits and ways of being with them no matter what I do, I can't seem to avoid it


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Felicity said:


> Great post. I am not surprised you're trying to cling to your old beliefs, the same thing happened to me and I reacted the same. Now I'm basically back in the game so to speak, but with the added knowledge that so much of social relations are based on fiction. The feelings that arise from that fiction are quite real though, and I guess it's because of them that people don't want to be exposed to the truth, the lies create a safety blanket which protects us from fear and other unpleasant emotions. You could say the whole structure of society is an attempt to avoid pain. It sucks though because at the same time you're limited by the bullshit, having no perspective on it you start to believe things like you're supposed to go to school, get a job, raise a family, etc. and when things don't work out neatly as planned you start getting angry and upset and believe things like you're worthless or that others are terrible people, and suddenly suicide and revenge seem like very logical ideas. In reality everyone's mostly just ignorant and running towards what they percieve as pleasure and away from pain. we're like Pavlov's dogs, we've been conditioned from birth to respond to certain cues, and when the truth hits you in the face that none of it is real and you've been so blind, it feels like death. So you keep jumping over the fence every time you hear a bell ring, keep salivating when you smell meat. We're chemically addicted to pleasure and that pleasure is the direct result of associations we make about the world, associations that are not directly related to anything in the real world. Yet those same associations if not seen as the mere beliefs that they are have the potential to keep us stuck in unproductive habits, keep us repeating the same mistakes, and eventually, keep us from learning and fully experiencing life. The fiction gradually becomes less of a security blanket and more of a prison.


When I was recovering from DP, I purged myself of all the systems-internal belief system, family, culture, political, soceity, friendships etc, to the point i was completely my own person, totally not connected to any system, if that makes sense? It was a really freaky time, as I'd been repressed and locked into my DP and other stuff, for nearly all my life, and suddenly I was completely free of everything. It made me DR for a while, because I couldn't cope with the way the world works at all, it was really depressing, because I felt quite lost and alone.
Even as a kid, when I turned vegetarian, I realised I hated the way the world operates, so maybe that's why i was prone to DPing

Then I realised that everyone DPs in their own way. They laugh something off, look on the bright side, lie to themselves that their spouses/ parents love them, pretend something isn't happening. People kid themselves because they don't want to see the truth. I DPd because I couldn't cope with what was going on at home and because of my personality type i 'went under'. My sister did the opposite, of running as far away from my family as she could. Neither is healthy.

But even though we leave our families, religion etc, we're still brainwashed and conditioned even if we are not within that system any more. You gotta purge yourself of all of that, before getting better. You can't take short cuts.

Like when a battered woman stays with her husband, and takes him back over and over, kidding herself that it's her problem and not his, because she doesn't want to face up to the horrible fact he doesn't love her, and that she's wasted all these years with him. That's basically what people do with unhealthy relationships with their parents. You just got to face up to the fact they did their best with whatever disfuntion they had, but essentially their 'love' made you seriously ill. So it's no use to you.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> I'm not sure, it seems to be whenever I am around them I just fall back into old habits and ways of being with them no matter what I do, I can't seem to avoid it


When I am around my family I get so angry. My blood boils inside because I know I am suffering due to their beliefs. I dared to question and make conscious what they never did and I am the one suffering because of it. That makes me really angry. The worst part is that I am dependent on them because of the state I'm in. I know I need to break this and get away but it's so hard in this condition.

We need some kind of escape, or place to go, I feel. Do you also feel angry around your parents?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> it seems to be whenever I am around them I just fall back into old habits and ways of being with them no matter what I do, I can't seem to avoid it


It sounds to me like you are afraid to let your family know who you really are. So you are repressed. I'm the same way, I don't know how to break it. I've tried being myself but my family and friends always manipulate me to feel a certain way and revert into my old patterns.

"Once you show people who you really are, they'll turn on you like sharks."


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

violetgirl said:


> Like when a battered woman stays with her husband, and takes him back over and over, kidding herself that it's her problem and not his, because she doesn't want to face up to the horrible fact he doesn't love her, and that she's wasted all these years with him. That's basically what people do with unhealthy relationships with their parents. You just got to face up to the fact they did their best with whatever disfuntion they had, but essentially their 'love' made you seriously ill. So it's no use to you.


Well said. Good analogy.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

nice posts, thanks for sharing.

i just wanted to add, sometimes you do need to let go of attachments to family and friends if you want to get out of DP. if being yourself means you will lose your family and friends, then they were never your real family nor your real friends. 
I am now quite alone socially speaking. my old friends dont know my true self. so i am making new friends, meeting new people that share my new interests and view of life. it is hard, so this means i spend most time on my own for now. but i dont mind. I also do not pay attention to what my parents say about what i should do with my life. this makes our relationship very poor, as they do not respect me as an individual. 
but really, though i rather have a good relationship with them, i dont care about this situation. i am happy being myself. i rather be myself and alone, than accompanied but not myself.
fuck society. real love is unconditional love. once they start forcing beliefs and life desicions on you, then for me, that is not love. And as a free, independent living being, i choose to only be in loving relationships that i enjoy, where nothing is forced on me and i am respected as an individual. if i dont find this anywhere, i rather be alone. My true father is the Sun, my true mother is the Earth. I answer to no one. 
then deal away with people who do not accept you for who you are. have no guilt. fuck them. whenever they learn how to love you for who you are, then you can re-establish the relationship. be strong.
also, sometimes you feel like you re responsible for them, like you should help them out of their sick belief-system. no. they want to be there. they are afraid to be elsewhere, they are afraid of freedom, of truth. but it is *their* path, not yours. and you are not responsible for them, you do not have to carry their weight with you. the best thing to do is to set an example for them. be yourself. go away if you need to. then they will realize, the value of being genuine is much higher than social acceptance, much more important than 'fitting in'. being your self is the highest aim, the most valuable thing. it is up to you to cut loose of relationships that bind you to a false identity. that is my view.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Abraxas said:


> nice posts, thanks for sharing.
> 
> *i just wanted to add, sometimes you do need to let go of attachments to family and friends if you want to get out of DP. if being yourself means you will lose your family and friends, then they were never your real family nor your real friends*.
> I am now quite alone socially speaking. my old friends dont know my true self. so i am making new friends, meeting new people that share my new interests and view of life. it is hard, so this means i spend most time on my own for now. but i dont mind. I also do not pay attention to what my parents say about what i should do with my life. this makes our relationship very poor, as they do not respect me as an individual.
> ...


That was the hardest part. I absolutely adored my parents, to the point I'd rather harm myself, than be angry at them. 
But the more I purged, I could physically feel myself 'come together' as a person. I was so fragmented, with all these self-destructive tendancies and personality traits. The happiness I felt at finally becoming my own person, wiped out the grief, and I was left with a lot of anger and sadness. But, I managed to forgive, for my own good as it was eating me up. Because I realised they too were products of damaged family environments, and I even felt sorry for them.

When I get involved with my father's mind games now, I'm able to put up healthy barriers and be assertive. I even tell him that I'm not here to feed his narcissism and ego. Before, I'd self-harm or DP even more and hate myself. It can be done.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

violetgirl said:


> That was the hardest part. I absolutely adored my parents, to the point I'd rather harm myself, than be angry at them.
> But the more I purged, I could physically feel myself 'come together' as a person. I was so fragmented, with all these self-destructive tendancies and personality traits. The happiness I felt at finally becoming my own person, wiped out the grief, and I was left with a lot of anger and sadness. But, I managed to forgive, for my own good as it was eating me up. Because I realised they too were products of damaged family environments, and I even felt sorry for them.
> 
> When I get involved with my father's mind games now, I'm able to put up healthy barriers and be assertive. I even tell him that I'm not here to feed his narcissism and ego. Before, I'd self-harm or DP even more and hate myself. It can be done.


That's just it, we turn the anger inwards and harm ourselves.

Was forgiveness what helped glue you back together so to speak?


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> It sounds to me like you are afraid to let your family know who you really are. So you are repressed. I'm the same way, I don't know how to break it. I've tried being myself but my family and friends always manipulate me to feel a certain way and revert into my old patterns.
> 
> "Once you show people who you really are, they'll turn on you like sharks."


Yes that is very true, I am afraid to even show them how I really feel, I haven't even told my family I go to see a psychotherapist and I have been going for about 8 years.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> That's just it, we turn the anger inwards and harm ourselves.
> 
> Was forgiveness what helped glue you back together so to speak?


Nah, that came a long time afterwards. I didn't want to forgive out of guilt, as that would be pointless.
I could only forgive once I was happy in myself, and completely secure, and that I understood my parents and where they were coming from. I did it for purely selfish reasons, which is ok, because I didn't want to hold onto the anger because it didn't feel nice.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> I am similar although perhaps the other way around, when i'm not around them I feel really angry at them, but when i'm with them none of that comes out and I act all nice like nothing is wrong, I can't help it. It is really frustrating that we are the one who see what's going on more clearly yet we are the ones who suffer, I think there is a level of rage underneath in that I feel that I have spent most my life looking after their emotions now I am the one who is screwed. I have often thought about getting away to some sort of rehab or something.
> 
> Yes that is very true, I am afraid to even show them how I really feel, I haven't even told my family I go to see a psychotherapist and I have been going for about 8 years.


When you are around them do you feel like there presence paralyzes you internally?

It's hard when there is no safe place to go to. I'm sure that's why we DP'd. I always think, I can leave and go somewhere else but ultimately I am dependent on them. It's scares me to cut that cord completely.

I have internal rage and I believe since I've been holding it in all this time it's come out through self-destruction.

If you don't mind me asking what belief systems did your family put on you?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

violetgirl said:


> Nah, that came a long time afterwards. I didn't want to forgive out of guilt, as that would be pointless.
> I could only forgive once I was happy in myself, and completely secure, and that I understood my parents and where they were coming from. I did it for purely selfish reasons, which is ok, because I didn't want to hold onto the anger because it didn't feel nice.


That makes sense. What led you to be happy in yourself and feel secure?


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> That makes sense. What led you to be happy in yourself and feel secure?


Breaking through the enmeshment. Realising that most of the guilt I felt was because of their behaviour. That there was nothing fundimentally wrong with me. That I am my own person.
Realising that most of my destructive personality traits led back to the way they'd treated me, and it wasn't the 'real me'. Just really bad coping mechanisms.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> When you are around them do you feel like there presence paralyzes you internally?
> 
> It's hard when there is no safe place to go to. I'm sure that's why we DP'd. I always think, I can leave and go somewhere else but ultimately I am dependent on them. It's scares me to cut that cord completely.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I guess I feel threatened by them and i'm in defensive mode around them and my defence seems to be putting on a front and acting like nothings wrong, they still seem to have some power over me and can quite easily trigger feelings of guilt and shame in me even without saying anything, just by looks or the way they express something, but it's doubly confusing because I know there is love there and they would probably be horrified if they knew how threatened I felt by them.

The belief systems in my family are I suppose things like if you have a problem then the answer is to work harder and become successful in the world to get self esteem, for example when I told them I was suffering from mental problems they told me I should get a better job and then I would be happy and they haven't spoken to me about it since. So even though we don't go to church I guess much of it is based on protestantism where you have to work hard your whole life then your reward will come at the end. No one is allowed to get angry in our family or even express any real problems as your problems are yours alone and nothing to do with anyone else, so basically I am made to feel like all my problems have nothing to do with my parents at all so i'm sort of scapegoated by the family like the black sheep.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

violetgirl said:


> Breaking through the enmeshment. Realising that most of the guilt I felt was because of their behaviour. That there was nothing fundimentally wrong with me. That I am my own person.
> Realising that most of my destructive personality traits led back to the way they'd treated me, and it wasn't the 'real me'. Just really bad coping mechanisms.


How did you break through the enmeshment? I like how you realized that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with you and that it was their behavior that affected you. I'm pretty sure I take my parents crap as my own and am still holding onto it as my own.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> I'm not sure I guess I feel threatened by them and i'm in defensive mode around them and my defence seems to be putting on a front and acting like nothings wrong, they still seem to have some power over me and can quite easily trigger feelings of guilt and shame in me even without saying anything, just by looks or the way they express something, but it's doubly confusing because I know there is love there and they would probably be horrified if they knew how threatened I felt by them.
> 
> The belief systems in my family are I suppose things like if you have a problem then the answer is to work harder and become successful in the world to get self esteem, for example when I told them I was suffering from mental problems they told me I should get a better job and then I would be happy and they haven't spoken to me about it since. So even though we don't go to church I guess much of it is based on protestantism where you have to work hard your whole life then your reward will come at the end. No one is allowed to get angry in our family or even express any real problems as your problems are yours alone and nothing to do with anyone else, so basically I am made to feel like all my problems have nothing to do with my parents at all so i'm sort of scapegoated by the family like the black sheep.


Wow that is really crappy. You do a good job at describing your situation and explaining how you feel. People with DP are a different breed. We are much more sensitive and intuitive than a lot of people in the world. ValleyGirl once said "I feel like I was born with an awareness the rest of the world doesn't have."

I can see your situation. It must be frustrating to have those feelings and feel that expressing them means risking exposing the family's ego.

I know what you're talking about, about being around them and them not even necessarily having to say anything but just being triggered by a subtle expression or look. I feel like I can even sense my moms energy from a distance. I don't even have to be in the same room as her. It eats me alive and torments me to the point where I feel like I am her and that I hear her voice in my head instead of my own and feel what she's feeling inside of me instead of what I'm feeling. I think that's the hold she has on me though and that the anger is with myself for not standing up for myself and breaking that hold.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Our situations are similar to the one Rose was in in Titanic. How she was totally tied down and tormented by her ridiculous family to the point where she just wanted to end it because she couldn't escape.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> How did you break through the enmeshment? I like how you realized that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with you and that it was their behavior that affected you. I'm pretty sure I take my parents crap as my own and am still holding onto it as my own.


It's hard work, very painful. I can't even begin to describe it properly. i mean everyone's got to figure it out for themselves. 
I just realised how my bad personality traits led back to them, and sorted that out


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I know what you're talking about, about being around them and them not even necessarily having to say anything but just being triggered by a subtle expression or look. I feel like I can even sense my moms energy from a distance. I don't even have to be in the same room as her. It eats me alive and torments me to the point where I feel like I am her and that I hear her voice in my head instead of my own and feel what she's feeling inside of me instead of what I'm feeling. I think that's the hold she has on me though and that the anger is with myself for not standing up for myself and breaking that hold.


I can relate to that, something violetgirl said to me was that it was important to see where your parents have narcissism, if your parents saw you as extensions of themselves rather than as a separate individual it can help you to separate to really see those traits in them for what they are. I see it in my mother now I have been shown how it works and how it is wrong, before I just thought it was normal or my own fault.

It's also a bit like Natalie Portman in Black Swan, which if you haven't seen it is a pretty disturbing account of her relationship with her overbearing mother, but it's a very disturbing film and may twist you up a bit if your not feeling that mentally healthy.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

Pablo said:


> It's also a bit like Natalie Portman in Black Swan, which if you haven't seen it is a pretty disturbing account of her relationship with her overbearing mother, but it's a very disturbing film and may twist you up a bit if your not feeling that mentally healthy.


haha i *loved* that movie. it really gave me a push in wanting to explore my sexuality/femininity even more. but yeah some parts are a bit disturbing.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> I can relate to that, something violetgirl said to me was that it was important to see where your parents have narcissism, if your parents saw you as extensions of themselves rather than as a separate individual it can help you to separate to really see those traits in them for what they are. I see it in my mother now I have been shown how it works and how it is wrong, before I just thought it was normal or my own fault.
> 
> It's also a bit like Natalie Portman in Black Swan, which if you haven't seen it is a pretty disturbing account of her relationship with her overbearing mother, but it's a very disturbing film and may twist you up a bit if your not feeling that mentally healthy.


Yes my parents or rather my mother definitely saw and still sees me as an extension of herself. 100% i have carried her shit around with me my whole life. her and the rest of my family (from my moms side) dump their shit onto me and give me praise for carrying their shit. like i'm some kind of savior. it's very covert i don't even think they are even conscious of it. however I AM and that's what drives me insane like we talked about.

i'm hypersensitive to peoples energy. i feel the energies of places and of groups of people and i'm sure this is why. i've thought i was possessed but this must be why. i am very hypersensitive to peoples intentions and energy. i can't stand to be out in public because i feel like a sponge that absorbs negative energy.

do you get that at all? do your parents see you as an extension of themselves? do you have siblings and are you the oldest child? we definitely have some similar things going on.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Abraxas said:


> haha i *loved* that movie. it really gave me a push in wanting to explore my sexuality/femininity even more. but yeah some parts are a bit disturbing.


Yeah I thought it was great too, but it did bring up a lot of feelings, it's a pretty realistic account of insanity


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Yes my parents or rather my mother definitely saw and still sees me as an extension of herself. 100% i have carried her shit around with me my whole life. her and the rest of my family (from my moms side) dump their shit onto me and give me praise for carrying their shit. like i'm some kind of savior. it's very covert i don't even think they are even conscious of it. however I AM and that's what drives me insane like we talked about.
> 
> i'm hypersensitive to peoples energy. i feel the energies of places and of groups of people and i'm sure this is why. i've thought i was possessed but this must be why. i am very hypersensitive to peoples intentions and energy. i can't stand to be out in public because i feel like a sponge that absorbs negative energy.
> 
> do you get that at all? do your parents see you as an extension of themselves? do you have siblings and are you the oldest child? we definitely have some similar things going on.


I used to be hypersensitive but i'm more shut down now, maybe because I was too hypersensitive so it was the only way I could cope. I think my mother sees me as an extension of herself, it's quite weird and disturbing but hard to describe, like even when I was ill she would come in and start acting ill to make it about her, then do small things like come over and read what i'm looking at on the internet without my permission, not respecting my boundaries. I am the middle child but it seems it's only me who seems to be caught up like this.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> I used to be hypersensitive but i'm more shut down now, maybe because I was too hypersensitive so it was the only way I could cope. I think my mother sees me as an extension of herself, it's quite weird and disturbing but hard to describe, like even when I was ill she would come in and start acting ill to make it about her, then do small things like come over and read what i'm looking at on the internet without my permission, not respecting my boundaries. I am the middle child but it seems it's only me who seems to be caught up like this.


do you feel like she sucks the energy out of you (literally)? do you feel like inside of you, you are her rather than yourself?


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> do you feel like she sucks the energy out of you (literally)? do you feel like inside of you, you are her rather than yourself?


To be honest I feel so shut down now that I don't really feel like anyone. I feel like she has given me a lot of her insecurities which I don't feel like they really belong to me, but it feels more like I have to hide myself and be false to protect myself from her to stop her from dumping on me all her stuff so I gain some distance from her.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> To be honest I feel so shut down now that I don't really feel like anyone. I feel like she has given me a lot of her insecurities which I don't feel like they really belong to me, but it feels more like I have to hide myself and be false to protect myself from her to stop her from dumping on me all her stuff so I gain some distance from her.


I see. This is big.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

Psychological independence from the Mother is the way to the Self.
You need to cut the umbilical chord once and for all.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Abraxas said:


> Psychological independence from the Mother is the way to the Self.
> You need to cut the umbilical chord once and for all.


How?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> like even when I was ill she would come in and start acting ill to make it about her, then do small things like come over and read what i'm looking at on the internet without my permission, not respecting my boundaries. I am the middle child but it seems it's only me who seems to be caught up like this.


I hate that, my mom is the exact same way. When that happens, what do you feel inside?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo I remember you once talking about a "chamber of contracts". You wrote that an individual would often rather die than break these contracts.

... just found the thread...

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26287-spiritual-awakening-profound-changes/page__p__223304__hl__%2Bchamber+%2Bcontracts__fromsearch__1#entry223304

I find this very interesting as it feels like there is some kind of contract that I just can't seem to wrap my mind around breaking without dissociating into oblivion. It would be great to travel to south america or somewhere where there are legit shamans to work this out.

Abraxas do you have any recommendations?


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I hate that, my mom is the exact same way. When that happens, what do you feel inside?


Usually I don't notice at the time that anything was wrong then later when it comes back to me I have bouts of anger and rage. I have got better at setting boundaries though but it's hard to do when you don't know what's going on most of the time.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Pablo said:


> Usually I don't notice at the time that anything was wrong then later when it comes back to me I have bouts of anger and rage. I have got better at setting boundaries though but it's hard to do when you don't know what's going on most of the time.


It is hard to do. In my situation the way it's done is very covert and makes me feel emotionally manipulated. I'm even having a hard time being conscious of what exactly happens but it feels like an energy exchange on a subconscious level. Like my energy is being subconsciously/covertly manipulated.


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## Abraxas (Apr 23, 2011)

surfingisfun001 said:


> How?


well... first you explore the feelings you have for your mother. love, fear, hate.
within love, you explore also your sexual desires for her, your wanting to penetrate her.
within hate, you explore how she wants to posess you, how she thinks you're her penis and lives through you, and doesnt let you free. you're her fucking puppet. also how she passes on her emotional baggage to you.
within fear, you explore how behind her femininity and apparent simplicity, there is great power, even black magic, she's The Witch. She will not let you escape her uterus, she will devoure you. she will eat you.

then, you do some catharsis with the love and wanting to penetrate her. you stand up for your own right for independence, and claim your life for yourself. you fear her not, as you're the hero.

Then as you dis-identify and get over with the Earth-dark-Mother archetype, you explore the Goddess Archetype. now, this true, spiritual Mother, is not physical. she s your Godmother, you find her within, in dreams, etc.

after this process your physical mother will be just another human being who you love a lot. and you will be a free, independent human being.

well, after you deal with the Father that is! hehe but this is more advanced


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## baking_pineapple (Apr 27, 2011)

"Man must not check reason by tradition, but contrawise, must check tradition by reason." 
- Leo Tolstoy


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## Guest (May 16, 2011)

Abraxas said:


> yeah i can relate to that. for me reading about Buddhism, samsara, etc, was the main trigger of my DP. before my world-view was much more simple: you live this life, and die forever...thats it, the end, no more consciousness, no reincarnation, nothing. You just live this one life, born out of chance, and die, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. so, i didnt give a fuck about anything and just did what i liked most, without fear of jugdment, without fear of heaven/hell. then suddenly due to Buddhism i was obsessed about karma, reincarnations, being trapped in a cycle of life-death-life, descending to hell, only to rise up to heaven, become some god, and then fall again from grace and into the lowest hell, and again crawling up the fucking ladder, in an endless metaphysical maze, trapped in some perverse wheel of suffering. Also mind-fuckers like Eckart Tolle and his Power of Now, and all the non-ego new age bulshit, shattered my world-view and self-view, and left me a sorry-ass, paranoid android, i was broken. i was afraid of everything, mainly my self, my feelings, etc, so I started repressing everything in me.. and went down that train to *real* hell, DP.


first, thank you again for your mail

well, I understand this whole concept and analogy, but I disagree. I also had thoughts that Tolle ruined up my mind, but after a certain time when I got more relaxed and my mind became a little bit less clouded, I realized it's stupid. the following facts proved me that it was a silly reasoning :

1. my DP or what it is started with a panic attack, and I also had a panic attack (with the same exact DP feeling) about the age of 10. it's impossible for any book or stupid shit to have caused it because obviously I had not read Tolle before the age of 8.

2. before my panic attack, I loved reading Tolle. I NEVER EVER believed or accepted his personality-bashing idiotic bullshit, but I've found the "be present, live in the now" message very useful. Useful to live my life more fully, and not to become some empty idiotic dumb who's "watchin a cat for 2 hours" or what the hell he states. after reading him and USING the PON, I was more "egoic" than ever. I loved it and I was successful. I haven't wasted a minute of life because of meditation.

3. the fact that I was EXTREMELY fearful about even the thought that I've "lost myself" during a panic attack (how silly it sounds now), proves that I haven't lost anything. If my personality would have had really changed after reading any book or bs, I'd be still meditating on the roof, and not being here reading inspirational posts about how to get rid of this terrible feeling.

this is why I laugh when people says that DP/DR is "enlightenment". I'm not enlightened, I want to get girls, get money, drink beer, reach my goals. I couldn't care less about "my universal self" or "afterlife". I believe in soul/subconscious and God. this comes from so early, and no book or anything ever changed it. you won't ever see me meditating in the garden, unless drinking cold beer or ice tea with my homies isn't considered meditation.









I respect your guys opinion, I hope I haven't offended anybody.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> When I am around my family I get so angry. My blood boils inside because I know I am suffering due to their beliefs. I dared to question and make conscious what they never did and I am the one suffering because of it. That makes me really angry. The worst part is that I am dependent on them because of the state I'm in. I know I need to break this and get away but it's so hard in this condition.
> 
> We need some kind of escape, or place to go, I feel. Do you also feel angry around your parents?


When you were away from your family (like when living under the bush), did you feel less DPed?


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Visual Dude said:


> When you were away from your family (like when living under the bush), did you feel less DPed?


Not less DP'd but free in that I wasn't controlled.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Not less DP'd but free in that I wasn't controlled.


Perhaps you could apply for disability. It takes a long time to get, but then you would get some support and health insurance to be able to be on your own. As for difficulties at times doing things like shopping because of anxity flares ... there are ways to work around it. There are probably advocates available to help you with things. There is no shame in asking for help. And it is possible that in time you will be able to function better and be at peace.

Of course you don't hate your family but when family is 'toxic', it is healthier to get away (even if it feels sad).


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Visual Dude said:


> Perhaps you could apply for disability. It takes a long time to get, but then you would get some support and health insurance to be able to be on your own. As for difficulties at times doing things like shopping because of anxity flares ... there are ways to work around it. There are probably advocates available to help you with things. There is no shame in asking for help. And it is possible that in time you will be able to function better and be at peace.
> 
> Of course you don't hate your family but when family is 'toxic', it is healthier to get away (even if it feels sad).


I have a part time job right now. I'm working on improving my health so I can leave.


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