# Schizoid personality disorder



## soup (Apr 14, 2011)

Hello all. I have recently been diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. At one point for a few weeks I thought I might have depersonalization disorder, as I identified with a lot of what was posted at this forum. In the end you all still seemed a bit more normal than me, although a lot of you who have been suffering for a long time have it worse.

Before I was diagnosed I partially "came out" of the schizoid state temporarily and quite accidentally on LSD, and it was the most profound moment of my life. I always knew something was different about me, but I hadn't realized what a huge difference it was. After the diagnosis I cured myself completely (again temporarily) on LSD, this time on purpose. I am currently attempting to be permanently cured through longterm psychotherapy. I am trying to understand the mechanisms of SPD, and I believe a better understanding of how it relates to DP might help me. So I'm just going to post a general description derived from my readings about it and my own experience with both the normal and schizoid state, and I'd love it if you would tell me what you identify with.

The two core parts of SPD are a separation from the body/external world, and a separation from spontaneous true feelings (the sense of self). The first separation means people with SPD can only directly connect to their own minds and imaginings. This is described as being an observer rather than participant in life, and is characterized by the schizoid gaining little or nothing from most everyday conversations and most relationships with other people, and also by the schizoid either speaking short simple sentences in a monotone voice or "acting." The first time I came out it was like I came into my body and became _present_ in the physical world. I could feel my body much more fully - such as the internal feeling people normally have when they breathe. Usually I only feel my ribs against my chest. My posture straightened out some and I felt much more direct connection with and control over my body (something I hadn't realized I was lacking). I was with my girlfriend, and no longer felt the desire to hide things from her (refuse intimacy). The transition took place in the span of a second and it was immediately obvious that some serious shit had just gone down in my mind (I've taken LSD over 20 times, so this wasn't just me tripping). But I felt better than I have since I was a child.

Most of my emotions are made cognitively and are very weak (the occasional exceptions being annoyance/anger, depression, anxiety, guilt/shame, self-loathing, and a few others in this area, which is another story and is probably something exclusive to SPD so I won't go into it further). My life experience is extremely neutral. I find pleasure in very few things, and get bored very easily. I have a frail patchwork sense of self. The second time I came out I was again in my body and also reconnected with my true self and spontaneous, real emotions. This was amazing. I realized I had no self-love at all because of the separation and thus no true self-confidence.

Some other characteristics that might be related:

Preoccupation with fantasy, stemming from being able to more fully connect with it. It is also used to relate to the world. An example would be a schizoid fantasizing about having sex with his partner while actually having sex with them, or remembering an event as being much more rich and fulfilling than it was actually experienced. Does this mean anything to anyone?

Not as affected by criticism or praise as others

Reduced sexual drive in regards to other real people

More comfortable alone, although may not necessarily "feel better" alone

Lack of motivation

Some impairments with verbal communication

So, again, what in this do you see of yourselves? Any comments are appreciated. As a side-note, a key difference between SPD and DP disorder is that the separations are egosyntonic.


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## *deleted* (Nov 19, 2010)

soup said:


> Some other characteristics that might be related:
> 
> Preoccupation with fantasy, stemming from being able to more fully connect with it. It is also used to relate to the world. An example would be a schizoid fantasizing about having sex with his partner while actually having sex with them, or remembering an event as being much more rich and fulfilling than it was actually experienced. Does this mean anything to anyone?
> 
> ...


Wow I can relate to all of this.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I can relate to pretty much all of what you said.

I'm interested in this "true self" you talk about. What was your experience like connecting with your true self? Do you currently feel detached from your true self, like you are fighting to be "that" again?

Is schizoid and schizotypal the same?


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## wouhou (Mar 11, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> I can relate to pretty much all of what you said.
> 
> I'm interested in this "true self" you talk about. What was your experience like connecting with your true self? Do you currently feel detached from your true self, like you are fighting to be "that" again?
> 
> Is schizoid and schizotypal the same?


Hi surfing, schizoid personnality and schizotypal personnality is 2 different personnality.
Schizoid is more a alone person without real friends like negative symptom of schizo but in low intensity.
Schizotypal is more psychotic symptoms, positive symptom of schizo but in low intensity.

I hope that help you , it's really a very small summary read on internet if you need to see more informations.

All the best, woowoo.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

wouhou said:


> Hi surfing, schizoid personnality and schizotypal personnality is 2 different personnality.
> Schizoid is more a alone person without real friends like negative symptom of schizo but in low intensity.
> Schizotypal is more psychotic symptoms, positive symptom of schizo but in low intensity.
> 
> ...


Thank you wouhou


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## sunyata samsara (Feb 18, 2011)

Im a schizoid and i think thats the reason i dont mind DP/DR. I see alot of people on here with DP wishing they could be social and be normal but since im a schizoid those things dont concern me.


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## diamonds&rust (Apr 9, 2011)

I suppose I could be a secret schizoid.


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## Sleepwalker (Dec 4, 2008)

soup said:


> Hello all. I have recently been diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. At one point for a few weeks I thought I might have depersonalization disorder, as I identified with a lot of what was posted at this forum. In the end you all still seemed a bit more normal than me, although a lot of you who have been suffering for a long time have it worse.


Interesting!! I can relate to this.
I had an in-depth assessment done by a trained psychologist. It's a questionnaire, really, of about 400+ questions.
This one's called MMPI (Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory)
One of the conclusions was: "*possibly schizoid*"


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## Ivan Hawk (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm not really a true Schizoid because I do in fact wish I could communicate better and have a lot more meaningful connection with people. 
With me, it's a damaged social interaction part of my brain. No question. Like a person who becomes blind later in life wanting to see some things again so badily. 
It's like a fogginess of the interaction process over half the time that is troublesome.

Perhaps Schizoid disorder can also consist of those who are mentally troubled by the lack of social interaction but _severely lack the motivation and interest_ in executing more of it - if that makes sense. Sort of like a depression of those mental functions.

To me knowledge, it is a blind suffering from the negative effects of lacking social interaction because of the missing desires & needs that trigger social interaction in the individual. I'm convinced that social interaction - whether it's with people or animals or perhaps even nature - is crucial in our lives. It's crucial to secure our sense of reality, sense of who we are. Schizoid in social relationships is most certainly a dysfunction. I believe most of us are highly aware of the trauma it can cause a child who has it early in life and doesn't understand it nor the people they grow up around. I think Schizoid people do indeed suffer from loneliness and have to resolve it in unconventional ways that don't involve too much social depth and breadth. The most profound ones could most certainly live a life that is quite comfortably adapted to the reality. Perhaps others who can't stand this 'blind suffering' can use unconventional solutions to cause cognitive behavioral changes to possibly regain enough social desire to not suffer from the lonliness. The brain is interesting in the way it adapts - both in positive and negative ways. It always seems to be able to adapt to an extent of our circumstances until it just ceases its constant motion and action. Athletes, Scholars, Artists, Musicians, Programmers, Engineers, Philosophers, - all train the brain to perform more like who they truly want to be. That's another thing that's interesting is how we are never really born the way we truly want to be, but we train towards it and make significant progress. We build those habits good and bad, but we really like the ones that make us more of who we just know we really are.

In addition to all this, perhaps Schizoid can often be a satellite condition that follows other things too.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

Interesting. However I can't help thinking that a lot of those symptoms you mentioned sound like depression as well. I once "reconnected" with my self and felt cured, briefly though, while smoking pot. I couldn't do it again unfortunately. Later I read on google about some studies that found that very small amounts of pot had superior antidepressant effects compared to anything else on the market including all the prescription antidepressants. Larger amounts of pot somehow seemed to negate any beneficial effects. I felt cured at the beginning of getting high but lost it when I progressively got higher. Maybe it was the same with you and LSD. Maybe it's just a resistant form of depression that only gets cured by a small fluky amount of a particular psychoactive drug. Just wondering.

Btw, are you on any medication that is helping?


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2011)

flat said:


> Interesting. However I can't help thinking that a lot of those symptoms you mentioned sound like depression as well.


Not a doctor, can't diagnose anyone on the internet, and I don't known the OP, but it seems he/she at least received a speicifc diagnosis from a psychiatrist (which again is no guarantee the doctor got it right) but this thread is again an example of the unfortunate result of self-diagnosis and especially reading a few things about an illness in the DSM or even worse, some "test" on the internet, etc.

I have said before, even the formal standardized tests for DP/DR are faulty, and say the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (a phone book worth of questions) is NO SUBSTITUTE for a one on one with a trained M.D. psychiatrist and or two more opinions.

Many have taken the Steinberg Questionnaire (Stranger in the Mirror), the Cambridge Scale, etc. for DP. Many HEALTHY people say, "OH, I have DP, what's the big deal." Example of a useless question. "Do you ever feel spacey?" or "At work do you ever lose track of time." Everyone I KNOW can answer yes to those questions and numerous others on tests and say, "There's nothing wrong with you."

Here is from the Merck Manual.

And these are *PERSONALITY DISORDERS, NOT DISSOCIATIVE DISORDERS.* I believe Borderline Personality Disorder is the one personality disorder in which it is most likely for someone to have DP/DR, and there is much talk about changing BPD to "mood dysregulation disorder" which would be on the bipolar spectrum.

*Personality Disorders Defined:*
"Personality disorders are pervasive, inflexible, and stable patterns of behavior that cause significant distress or functional impairment. Ten distinct personality disorders have been identified and grouped into 3 clusters. All are believed to be caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors. Diagnosis is clinical. Treatment is with psychotherapy and sometimes drug therapy.

Personality traits are patterns of thinking, perceiving, reacting, and relating that are relatively stable over time and in various situations. Personality traits are usually evident from late adolescence or early adulthood, and although many traits persist throughout much of life, some fade with aging and some can be modified. Personality disorders exist when these traits become so rigid and maladaptive that they impair functioning. Mental coping mechanisms (defenses) that are used unconsciously at times by everyone tend to be immature and maladaptive in people with personality disorders."
........

"*Schizoid personality* is characterized by introversion, social withdrawal, isolation, and emotional coldness and distancing. Affected people are often absorbed in their own thoughts and feelings and fear closeness and intimacy with other people. They are reticent, are given to daydreaming, and prefer theoretical speculation to practical action."

_*My note: If one does not understand this disorder vs. DP, one could immediately say, "Oh, that's DP." It's not. Such a person does not FEEL separated from his/her body, or see the world as unreal. Such a person would be "odd, eccentric", be a loner ... the person in school who never talks and is called a "geek" who hides and never talks in class, or can't get a date because he/she DOES NOT HAVE PROPER SOCIAL SKILLS.

DP/DR can makes us WITHDRAW, NOT BE SOCIAL, but the REASON for the withdrawal and social awkwardness is the symptoms of unreality. I am an extremely gregarious, social person. I WANT intimacy, I SEEK intimacy, but the DP/DR MAKE IT DIFFIULT. If the DP/DR disappeared today, I would be out actively socializing, dating, etc. I just don't have the energy, and don't even enjoy a lovely sunset.

If someone has this personality type, he/she is NOT GOING TO CHANGE, and probably DOESN'T have DP/DR. Someone with AUTISM who has a lack of social skills doesn't have DP/DR (well I suppose they could as a comorbid symptom), but having autism is a completely different illness.*_
-------------------
Back to the manual:
*Schizotypal personality*, like schizoid personality, involves social withdrawal and emotional coldness but also includes oddities of thinking, perception, and communication, such as magical thinking, clairvoyance, ideas of reference, or paranoid ideation. These oddities suggest schizophrenia (see Schizophrenia and Related Disorders: Schizophrenia) but are never severe enough to meet its criteria. People with schizotypal personality are believed to have a muted expression of the genes that cause schizophrenia."

-----------------
NO, I would say the bulk of us here do NOT HAVE SCHIZOPHRENIA, and many with schizoprhenia function better than I do. I know people with schizoprhenia and they don't understand DP/DR!

And say Surfer, I have never met you in person, but the way you have described yourself BEFORE the DP, is a very social outgoing person. To me, and I'm certain to any doctor, you would NEVER be classified as either of these.
-----------------

_*DP/DR is a serious problem for some of us, so much so IT CAUSES US TO WITHDRAW even if we weren't that way to begin with. The individual with such a disorder, especially schizoid, probably shows signs of being "eccentric" and "a loner" very early, even at an age of 4, 5, 6 and certainly by Middle School, and in High School where social demands are greater this eccentricity stands out.

It just makes me sad sometimes that so many here self-diagnose, because they start to believe they are "this" or "that" and may not get the proper treatment. Also, I'm always surprised that people say, "I don't want to be labeled" when they will immediately say "OH, I'm schizoid."

Then I get angry at stigma. Brain Disorders are like any other illness. They can be treated with greater or less success than any other illness, such s diabetes or cancer or heart disease, etc.*_

Personally, I KNOW I have a brain disorder ... several, clinical depression, severe anxiety, and DPDisorder. I am not ashamed. These things don't DEFINE me. For YEARS I thought this was how I was SUPPOSED to feel. That it was normal to be having panic attacks and crying daily, failing math in 3rd grade. I felt "defective." When I found out there was a NAME for my "weird" feeling, DP/DR, I was so damned relieved I cried. I thought I was the only person in the world, completely alone, feeling like Hell.

*Meantime, this doesn't scare me anymore. What I mainly fear is being stuck in some of my worst episodes of the past and not getting back to my "normal DP/DR". I don't want to have these disorders, but I can say, even in the WORST episodes of DP/DR or depression or anxiety ... "this is an illness, I have felt better before, I will feel better again." It's like if you had a pain in your gut that never went away, and you just lived with it, then one day fell over in agony, then you find you have diverticulitis or something, then you KNOW, you have a way to approach it ... surgery, diet, exercise, medication. Physical illness have labels too for a reason.*


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

Soooo, I guess we're back to point A. Thanks dreamer for the detailed explanation and warnings of hasty armchair diagnosises. You have to admit there are a lot of cross-over symptoms that are shared with many of these illnesses. That's why a professional is best to make an observed diagnosis...and even then it's just an educated guess.

Does the manual say how dp/dr symptoms start with people? For example, suddenly at the peak of a panic attack...or slowly and progressively, gaining momentum until it becomes steady-state. Does those different kinds of onsets of dp/dr fit any particular personality disorder or illness?


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## tobindax (Apr 14, 2012)

Hello, my Apologies to the late reply in this thread in Advance. Also excuse my non native English.

I'd like to point out this is one of the most interesting discussions on SPD I've seen on the net yet, and probably the most interesting involving non-professionals.

I'd like to say something that proves important to me:

If you know the cause of your SPD it may be liberating.

I'm a Schizoid (perhaps fully in disorder or only towards it since I'm aware) but also aware it had been caused or at lease fully exacerbated by a *Narcissist* (possibly of the full NPD form or at least towards it) that was an important part of my life.

Narcissists are notorious in "cult creation" and Projection of the "transference" type (Projective Identification) and they are known by professionals that are able to create Schizoids, among other things around them.

This is theoretically not important because a Narcissist is a Narcissist, is another thing.

However, knowing it is a Narcissist it might be liberating for these reasons:

1) If he, or she, projected Narcissists characteristics on you it might be easy to realize those are easily shed. They are not you and not even easily attached onto you.

2) The process of seclusion into this Schizoid state might be understood to a point that it can be dismantled part by part or reversed in sequence. etc.


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## baking_pineapple (Apr 27, 2011)

Wonderful post! I relate a lot with your description of the schizoid state... although, like Ivan Hawk, I still desire social connection, something which is not technically associated SPD. I'm painfully aware that my socioemotional experience of life is absent... I feel its absence and I strongly desire it back. If it was brain damage, I don't think I'd be able to recognize it's absence... it would just no longer be part of my reality and not of any concern. It's more like its dormant, waiting for something to activate it. This means its up to me to find something or someone that will reactivate this part of my brain. LSD and shrooms will do the trick, I know, but only temporarily. A more intelligent approach would be to find someone with whom I can be unabashedly and mindlessly intimate with, like I was with my mother before the development of consciousness, and rebuild my sense of self on this basis, from the ground up.

This neurological description of DP (from Wikipedia) seemed dead on:

"There is converging evidence that the prefrontal cortex may inhibit neural circuits that normally form the substrate of emotional experience"


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## tobindax (Apr 14, 2012)

baking_pineapple said:


> Wonderful post! I relate a lot with your description of the schizoid state... although, like Ivan Hawk, I still desire social connection, something which is not technically associated SPD. I'm painfully aware that my socioemotional experience of life is absent... I feel its absence and I strongly desire it back. If it was brain damage, I don't think I'd be able to recognize it's absence... it would just no longer be part of my reality and not of any concern. It's more like its dormant, waiting for something to activate it. This means its up to me to find something or someone that will reactivate this part of my brain. LSD and shrooms will do the trick, I know, but only temporarily. A more intelligent approach would be to find someone with whom I can be unabashedly and mindlessly intimate with, like I was with my mother before the development of consciousness, and rebuild my sense of self on this basis, from the ground up.
> 
> This neurological description of DP (from Wikipedia) seemed dead on:
> 
> "There is converging evidence that the prefrontal cortex may inhibit neural circuits that normally form the substrate of emotional experience"


I suspect longing for relationships is not incompatible with the state per se, but perhaps only in its extreme clinical case. It could be even be very 'cerebral' in some cases even if its extreme. e.g. "I'm aware I'm in a bubble but I want to get out.".

In any case I don't think it's a reason to say one is away from a schizoid state since it might just be a mild case.

edit: PS. ah, an example might be our friend above with LSD. That substance only temporarily gave him the 'light'. But he quickly regressed to the former state. But he retained a cerebral understanding of it.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2012)

flat said:


> Soooo, I guess we're back to point A. Thanks dreamer for the detailed explanation and warnings of hasty armchair diagnosises. You have to admit there are a lot of cross-over symptoms that are shared with many of these illnesses. That's why a professional is best to make an observed diagnosis...and even then it's just an educated guess.
> 
> Does the manual say how dp/dr symptoms start with people? For example, suddenly at the peak of a panic attack...or slowly and progressively, gaining momentum until it becomes steady-state. Does those different kinds of onsets of dp/dr fit any particular personality disorder or illness?


Woah, this is from waaaay back. Was just looking at some upgrades in the DSM-5 and saw this.

The DSM and Merck Manual and ICD are not intended so much for diagnosis as for statistical and insurance purposes.

A trained psychiatrist should learn about different illnesses through exposure to them in direct clinical practice as well as reading medical textbooks. Summaries from the manuals help clarify specifics.

I would still say that Schizoid Personality Disorder is again not DP/DR. I have noted before that, first of all Personality Disorders are not Dissociative Disorders. Depersonalization is a Dissociative Disorder, and may even be moved from that category.

The more understanding of the brain (which is extremely difficult) the more clear certain diagnoses are.

I can tell you, I have DPD. I fit that category. Whether it is comorbid with my anxiety and depression, or secondary to my anxiety and depression is still up for debate. But it is a perceptual distortion .... DP, my body feels AS IF it is not mine. DR, the world does not seem real, it is flat, 2d, dimmer. Perceptual distortions are not the same as personal interactions.

I would think you could say schizoid might be more akin to autism -- again on a scale ... but one again is a cognitive, developmental disorder, the other a disturbance of personality formation.

There are reasons for categorizing. Humans categorize everything. We must, or we would not be able to communicate.

We try to codify things ... all I can think of now is "Democrat" and "Republican", believer and atheist, too much politics in my head. But one word conjures up immediate recognition. What is difficult with medical/brain illnesses is we are confusing lay terminology with medical terminology.

Also, all is on a spectrum. One can have a personality disorder and be "eccentric" -- that same personality disorder in more severe form could affect that person's ability to interact with people on a social and occupational level ... perhaps make it impossible.


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## saniyah (Mar 22, 2012)

Schizoid Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of detachment from social relationships. A person with schizoid personality disorder often has difficulty expression emotions and does so typically in very restricted range, especially when communicating with others.

Treatment for Schizoid Personality Disorder are: Psychotherapy is short-term in nature to help the individual solve the immediate crisis or problem. The patient will then likely terminate therapy. Goals of treatment most often are solution-focused using brief therapy approaches. Medications is usually not an issue for someone who suffers from this disorder, unless they also have an additional Axis I disorder, such as major depression. Most patients show no additional improvement with the addition of an antidepressant medication, though, unless they are also suffering from suicidal idealization or a major depressive episode. Long-term treatment of this disorder with medication should be avoided; medication should be prescribed only for acute symptom relief. Additionally, prescription of medication may interfere with the effectiveness of certain psycho therapeutic approaches. Self-Help methods for the treatment of this disorder are often overlooked by the medical profession because very few professionals are involved in them. The social network provided within a self-help support group can be a very important component of increased, higher life functioning and a decrease in an inability to function in the face of unexpected stressed. A supportive and non-invasive group can help a person who suffers from schizoid personality disorder overcome fears of closeness and feelings of isolation.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Dreamer* said:


> I would still say that Schizoid Personality Disorder is again not DP/DR. I have noted before that, first of all Personality Disorders are not Dissociative Disorders. Depersonalization is a Dissociative Disorder, and may even be moved from that category.


I have met many people with Schizoid Personality Disorder, and they describe feeling constantly detatched from their emotions, and feeling chronically numb. But also with no desire to feel these emotions or don't feel alarmed by the way they feel. This is a dissociative disorder. They are dissociated from their true emotions, but don't have the 'out of body' feeling that can happen with DP/ DR.

Borderline Personality Disorder, has dissociative states- modes. These come from trauma. So in therory BPD is a form of dissociative disorder. It's very closely linked to PTSD and DID. Many have crossover symptoms.

All people with PDs have a form of PTSD. They don't want to feel the original feelings or shame, guilt, powerlessness, fear. So go onto develop Borderline, Schizoid, Narcisssistic, Avoidant, Antisocial, Histrionic Personality Disorder to deal with it, and they can experience dissociation.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

ok firstly you can take on this "label" of having a personality disorder OR you can choose to believe that you just have some work to do

the reason why people with DP appear to be schizoid is because we are not connected to our emotions anymore, you need emotions and sensations to connect with other people, in my case my emotions shut down because my nervous system was overloaded and I still have not resolved traumatic memories so therefore im still numb and not wanting to connect with people.

Another issues is "safety" ppl with DP don't feel safe most of the time, if you don't feel safe you won't be in your body therefore going into your head to be safe

I refuse to listen to any doctors of psychologists about personality disorders ...because there have been so many people that have overcome this and so called personality disorders...once you feel safe...conquer "shame" and reconnect with your emotions and body you will be fine and you will actually want to connect with people again


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

and again I could say I have had all kinds of "personality disorders" going from OCD, to Borderline to panic attacks and now to DP or schizoid...the bottom line is once we feel safe and are not ashamed of ourselves then we can be free


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2012)

soup said:


> Hello all. I have recently been diagnosed with schizoid personality disorder. At one point for a few weeks I thought I might have depersonalization disorder, as I identified with a lot of what was posted at this forum. In the end you all still seemed a bit more normal than me, although a lot of you who have been suffering for a long time have it worse.
> 
> Before I was diagnosed I partially "came out" of the schizoid state temporarily and quite accidentally on LSD, and it was the most profound moment of my life. I always knew something was different about me, but I hadn't realized what a huge difference it was. After the diagnosis I cured myself completely (again temporarily) on LSD, this time on purpose. I am currently attempting to be permanently cured through longterm psychotherapy. I am trying to understand the mechanisms of SPD, and I believe a better understanding of how it relates to DP might help me. So I'm just going to post a general description derived from my readings about it and my own experience with both the normal and schizoid state, and I'd love it if you would tell me what you identify with.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the post.


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