# my cure for dr



## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

hello all...it has been forever since i've ventured on this site but i want to let everyone know what has worked for me. i have almost no dp but once a month i get dr that varies in severity. sometimes it is almost non-existent and sometimes it is awful. my dr is caused my hormones. about a month ago i decided to try klonopin and it has worked wonders!!! i never have to suffer from dr anymore. i take .5 mg to 1 mg a day when i'm feeling dred and it makes me feel 100% normal. i have tried xanax and valium but neither worked nearly as well as klonopin. it is soooo great to never have to worry about this horrible disorder anymore.


----------



## shamrose (May 14, 2007)

agentcooper said:


> hello all...it has been forever since i've ventured on this site but i want to let everyone know what has worked for me. i have almost no dp but once a month i get dr that varies in severity. sometimes it is almost non-existent and sometimes it is awful. my dr is caused my hormones. about a month ago i decided to try klonopin and it has worked wonders!!! i never have to suffer from dr anymore. i take .5 mg to 1 mg a day when i'm feeling dred and it makes me feel 100% normal. i have tried xanax and valium but neither worked nearly as well as klonopin. it is soooo great to never have to worry about this horrible disorder anymore.


wow...fantastic...need to look up klonopin!


----------



## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Just a little word of caution here. Be extremely careful when taking Klonopin--or any other benzodiazepine for that matter--for an extended period because they are intended for short term use. In case you don't know, benzo withdrawal will make DP seem like a picnic......since klonopin attaches to the GABA receptors in your brain (calming effect), in time you need to take more of it in order to feel the desired effect because your body develops tolerance towards the drug, and every benzo taken on a consistent basis will eventually poop out on you. Don't get hooked on benzodiazepines...three weeks to a month; don't take them any longer than that.


----------



## Universal (May 30, 2005)

like dreamland has pointed out its not good to be taking benzos consistently for a long period of time. you will develop a tolerance and will eventually need more to reach the same effect.

these drugs are used to minimize panic and are only meant to be taken if ur having panic attacks. sorry to bust your bubble, but i dont think youve found a "cure" so to speak. be careful, and think about this before you become addicted and/or suffer some kind of withdrawal.


----------



## Guest (May 23, 2007)

From what I have learned in the last couple of days, it depends on the type of benzo you are taking...
But yes, withdrawal is hellish, and I have only just started :roll:

Greg


----------



## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Im still the same person said:


> From what I have learned in the last couple of days, it depends on the type of benzo you are taking...
> But yes, withdrawal is hellish, and I have only just started :roll:
> 
> Greg


The problem with benzos is that you initially take them on an as needed basis, but then all of a sudden you slip one just because it relaxes you so much and that's when they become a problem. Before you know it you become psychologically hooked on them because you want to eliminate the rebound anxiety after it wears off, but in the long run it can turn into a physical addiction with some nasty withdrawal symptoms (convulsions, delusions, irritability, etc.). Seriously, benzos are wonder drugs and I take one every two months or so but that's it. Don't take them everyday for a prolonged period.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Go Coop! 8)

*Just IMHO, and from long experience, again we are all unique*, I was just at a support meeting w/individuals having MANY mental illnesses from bipolar to schizoaffective, etc. Risk/benefit for meds, especially for schizophrenia is a HUGE decision for said individuals, and it is for anyone w/anxiety, depression, OCD, and yes DP.[/b]

You will be :shock: -- and, yes, I've been told HERE on this board I am a "drug addict" for this -- but this summer of 2007, I will have been on Klonopin, 6mg/day for 20 years. TWENTY. If anyone believe's I am one, fine. This is my body and my life and the drug has helped me cope significantly though I have never been cured. But as I get older, things have slowly gotten more bearable.

*Also I have NEVER taken Klonopin or ANY benzo on an "as-needed" basis. I found a set dose that maintained great improvement and have never changed it. I do believe "as-needed" can cause trouble, but in certain people. But that is my general hunch.*

Again, in my case, NONE of the other benzos I tried touched my DP/DR, and did little for my anxiety. In MY case alone, I was ready to take my own life. I had been seriously ill my whole life. First DP/DR at age 4/5... yes, you've heard it all, but I'll say it again.

1. There is indeed something "different" about Klonopin. It was orignially marketed in 1975 as an anticonvulsant. The highest dose in the PDR for seizures is 20mg/day. (No one would go that high to the best of my understanding, don't know enough about today's seizure patients)

Of course this would perhaps supplement nother more modern antiseizure med for someone with epilepsy. I know one individual with epilepsy who has been on and off meds such as Klonopin and more for years. He's still alive and kicking at 62 or so. And he is not addicted to anything, but he NEEDS his meds so he doesn't have numerous seizures a day. (And they have found no cause).

2. *I am also on 200mg/day of Lamictal, another anticonvulsant.*

You would think that would knock out a horse. I am a 125 lb female. I am able to tolerate this medication NO problem. My husband tried one of my Klonpin once and fell asleep immediately.

*There is obviously something different about my chemistry, metabolism, etc.*

3. *I have NEVER abused this drug in 20 years. NEVER.* Taking more really does nothing. We went to 8mg initially -- I finally started feeling some relief (for me NO CURE, but enough relief to want to keep going), I did feel a tad sleepy at 8mg and we pulled it down to 6mg/day. Also, this drug was prescribed to me by a founding member of the ISSMPD, then the ISSD and now the ISSDT, lordy.

That psychiatrist said, in 1987, NINETEEN-EIGHTY-SEVEN, "we have had success at Sheppard Pratt with this with some of our dissociative patients."

4. *I KNOW the risks. I DO NOT WANT TO GO OFF OF IT. I don't want to return to Hell. Chronic Hell.* I will stay on it as long as I can. I know that as I get older I will have to taper VERY, VERY, VERY slowly. As slowly as .5 mg/per two months per my shrink -- or longer! I will deal with that when I feel I can, see how I do. Since I am on Lamictal, the taper should be easier, but no guarantee.

5. Valium, Ativan, Xanax FOR ME were easy to go on in high doses and easy to drop. They were almost like sugar pills. I have a small stash of old Xanax. Once a year when I'm in a frenzy of anxiety, I'll take one. It hits HARD and fast. I don't like the feeling. It only hits panic for me.

*I NEVER RECOMMEND A COLD TURKEY OF ANY BENZO. A LENGTHY TAPER IS IMPERATIVE. ACTUALLY FOR ANY MED UNLESS IT IS LIFE THREATENING, ETC.*

6. Someone taking an antipsychotic is weighing risk/benefit. It is their choice. Someone on any medication for say arthritis has a risk benefit. Guys rarely understand that women have a risk/benefit for taking birth control. A woman my age could have a stroke or heart attack on a birth control pill -- sadly I have no use for one.

7. I was SERIOUSLY DP/DR, anxious -- before Klonopin, before ANY med -- from CHILDHOOD. I can function and have for 20 years now with it. I have to accept that.

Note: Agent Cooper has a menopausal/hormonal connection to the onset of her DR. You may not know her, she's a former member here. She got worse DR PMS I believe, then it went away. So, misery for 2 weeks out of every month, then she'd feel better the other 2 weeks.

*I see a clear medical correlation there FOR HER, her unique case. She is intelligent enough to know risk/benefit.*

For the millionth time, each case here is unique, we spoke of this at my support meeting tonight. One individual with bipolar responds better to one med than other, etc., etc. And risk/benefit is weighed re: social/occupational functioning. Also each individual needs an individual approach from a therapist, or from ANY doctor.

Get all of the information you have, then make your own decision. I simply feel a need to defend those who have chosen a medical route. This doesn't mean weakness, or "having given up."

Yes, I have concerns, for all of us on our various meds, and for myself, but each person has a risk/benefit.

*For those with addictive disorders/personalities, doctors will be very hesitant to prescribe benzos. This is a shame as I know many who have had wonderful success with Klonopin. I do agree if one acknowledges an addictive disorder/personality (and I do not have this), perhaps Klonopin is not the best choice.

Bottom line, I'm glad Agentcooper has found HER answer. It may not be the answer for everyone, but she is reporting HER success. What has helped HER. She doesn't claim, "this is the only way for all of you to get well, this is what worked for ME." She is sharing how SHE has coped.

You Go Girl

I wish everyone here well, no matter what they do. I also incorporate therapy, support groups, exercise, healthy eating, various activities -- a Mind, Heart (Spiritual as you define it), Body approach.

End of lecture.: 8)
I know the risks. I have been willing to take them. I believe Agentcooper has weighed her risk/benefit situation. She has posted here for some time.

"Ask not what disease the patient has, but what patient the disease has." - William Osler, neurologist*


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

PS -- I wear a "Medic Alert" bracelet at all times. If I'm hurt in an auto accident, etc. a paramedic/hospital will be aware that I'm on these meds. My other medical conditions can be called in immediately. I recommend this for anyone on medication or with a specific medical condition; as you get older, you need one of these freakin' things -- for instance one man was injured in an auto accident and had a stent in his heart w/metal in it

They were rushing him for an MRI on his head when a nurse saw the MedicAlert bracelet and said, we get a CAT instead. Had they put him in the MRI machine it would have damaged his stent and potentially killed him

Also helps if you have a metal plate in your head etc, lol, sorry:

See http://www.medicalert.org


----------



## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

Your testimony is exactly what I'm worried about because you were reiterating my point. You try getting off Klonopin and see what will happen, and it won't be DP. You keep on saying how you "tolerate" lamotrigine an Clonazepam but we both know what that means. I'm not trying to criticize anyone here but I know some people who were taking benzos for 10 + years believing that they finally found the elixir to their anxiety, but getting off them and readjusting was worse than anything they experienced before. All psychotropic medications will stop working after a while.


----------



## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

Agent Coopper, fair play and good luck to you. im sure you know whats right and whats wrong for you personally.


----------



## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

Im not one for medicine, but well done. Good to hear!


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

widescreened said:


> Agent Coopper, fair play and good luck to you. im sure you know whats right and whats wrong for you personally.


This is all I'm trying to say. I wish so much that people here, and doctors as well, would understand that every patient with ANY illness (and I mean cancer, heart disease, etc., etc., etc.) needs unique individualized treatment.

The doctor is obligated to talk of all risk/benefits. The patient is obligated to educate him or herself. Get a second or third opinion on something if this is possible.

The fact that I can take such a high dose of Klonopin and Lamictal for example indicates there is something about MY metabolism that is different from most others here. My DP was Hell w/out Klonopin. I'd lived with DP/DR Hell for many years.

I took Klonopin, the doctor started me at a higher dose (maybe 3mg) due to the severity of my DP, and it didn't work! Even much on my anxiety! Then we kept going up. 6mg/day was the "magic amount". I have NEVER CHANGED IT OR ABUSED IT. There are others on the board at this same level of this same drug.

This is like someone with schizoprhenia ... and I know people with schizophrenia. The dose of a particular antipsychotic for a person with schizophrenia would knock any "healthy" person on their ass for a month. But sometimes one individual with schizophrenia might react poorly or not at all to one drug, but very well to another, or a combination thereof.

*I only wish people here would say, and I hope I do this, and hope I've never attacked any one else for his/her treatment choice ... I wish someone would phrase a response to a post like Agent Cooper's as ...

"I'm so glad that worked for you. It might not help me, or I'm concerned about it, but I'm glad it has worked for you."*

There is an implication that someone who is on a particular med doesn't have the sense to know risk/benefit. I'm always surprised that I am attacked (I don't care anymore) for taking Klonopin and Lamictal when many here think nothing of drugs off the street

*I do not judge someone who experiments with any medication. I hear here people actually have relief from rec drugs. That is fine with me. It just terrfies ME, in MY circumstance.*

Also, just off topic. One of the women in my support group has schizophrenia but GASP :shock:, she is very functional on her meds combo, and is a PHARMACIST. :shock: She does better than I do. She has difficulty socializing, but she is proud of working. You would not know if you met her that she has that illness. She says that "behind the counter" there is TREMENDOUS discrimination against the mentally ill. *She gets her meds at ANOTHER pharmacy -- a different chain of pharmacy! Not related to hers at all.*

PHARMACISTS are cruel and make cruel jokes about "crazy people." It made me sick. Wiithout her meds, this woman would be on the street. With them (*and they give her nasty side-effects*) she is a successful, independent, happier person. She has great self worth contributing to society in this way. And is especially understanding of individuals who come in for mental health meds.

I wish people here would simply offer what WORKED FOR THEM and accept what works for others. Take each person's experience within it's own context. Don't judge.

Sometimes I am sus about "alternative" approaches that sound like snake oil treatments and will speak out about them as will others, but I guess if someone says, "This helped me" not "THIS IS THE ONLY CURE THE REST OF YOU ARE IDIOTS", that is help, that is support.

That is all I'm trying to say.

As with my website, what I write and talk about myself, I state, "This is MY experience, no one else's, this is what helped ME. I may not help anyone else, but think on it and make your own decision. It may help, it may not."

I don't intend this as an attack on anyone. You can't hear the tone of my voice, or see my body language as I express this. You don't know me as anything more than words on a screen. But this is simply my point.

WE ARE ALL UNIQUE. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL HERE. WE HAVE A COMMON SYMPTOM/S. WE CAN SHARE OUR EXPERIENCE AND KNOWLEDGE SO THAT WE ARE NOT ALONE. BUT THE ROAD TO A BETTER LIFE RESTS WITH INDIVIDUAL EDUCATION AND CHOICE. I'M MAKING AN EVEN GREATER EFFORT HERE AND IN LIFE TO NOT JUDGE (THOUGH I CAN BE SKEPTICAL) AND TO BE OPEN TO MORE POSSIBLITIES AS WELL -- THINGS I MAY HAVE REJECTED IN THE PAST.

Truly, in the spirit of wanting people here to be educated, supported, not terrfied or told they have made a terrible decision.

OK, done.
I honestly have no ill will.
And I'm tired of the stigma of mental illness, and that for some, taking meds is "weakness." Very sad.
Peace,
D


----------



## jonnyfiasco (Apr 20, 2007)

Dreamer I find your passion absolutely wonderful. I just wonder what you make of case studies of people diagnosed as schizophrenic recovering from nutritional means?

ADDON: I just had a look where I had seen this. In fact it wasnt nutritionally it was more to do with the low levels of magnesium and when the schizophrenic group achieved remission the Mg levels went up. I think the link is here. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

But I am sure I have read about Schizophrenia being cured through nutritional means in plenty of places. Im in 2 minds about it all.

And then if you read about the symptoms of magnesium deficiency. Golly gosh!!!! and how important of a mineral it is to the body processes.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

jonnyfiasco said:


> Dreamer I find your passion absolutely wonderful. I just wonder what you make of case studies of people diagnosed as schizophrenic recovering from nutritional means?
> 
> ADDON: I just had a look where I had seen this. In fact it wasnt nutritionally it was more to do with the low levels of magnesium and when the schizophrenic group achieved remission the Mg levels went up. I think the link is here. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract
> 
> ...


Dear Johnny,
Thank you for your comments, I am passionate about this. As I work on my book, as I start to speak to people about DP/DR and other mental illnesses I learn more and more.

There is definitely a trend in the SELF ADVOCACY movement to seek alternatives to all mental disorders. This was not how I grew up. I have been through the system since age 15 in 1975 and the approach to mental illness has changed greatly in that time.

My treatment has also changed.

What is important is indeed that individuals research for themselves. The internet is a godsend though it can also have a lot of unproven, misleading info on it.

For instance though, I have gastro problems and was recently at the gastro to get a work up which has started with blood tests. My IgA is extremely low. IgA deficiency, I may have a genetic illness that is causing celiac disease and I may go on a gluten free diet. The results could help my fatigue, my anxiety, etc. I look forward to that. My diagnosis is difficult to make and I won't know more until the end of the summer.

So many mentally ill people I meet with DO try alternatives, but all the ones I have met use these as supplements, and sometimes supplements and of course other Rx meds don't go well together and cause more misery.

You noted: "In fact it wasnt nutritionally it was more to do with the low levels of magnesium and when the schizophrenic group achieved remission the Mg levels went up."

*This is an important thing; one must be careful re: interpreting a sentence like that. It notes the change in Mg levels after traditional treatment. That fact alone doesn't mean taking magnesium ITSELF will cure schizophrenia (or put it in remission). But such research will certainly yield greater understanding of the illness, and perhaps will generate further research into other treatments.*

My guess is that taking Magnesium in and of itself would not be the answer to putting schizophrenia into remission -- just from reading that one statement. Also I know of no one whose schizophrenia has been "cured." It is both a neurological/cognitive/perceptual disorder affecting MANY aspects of a person's perception of the world. And there are varying degrees of severity.

For instance we know autism can be TREATED, but it is never CURED. Diabetes can be TREATED but never cured. But for instance diet, therapy, etc. figure into both of these illnesses and many, many more.

*Bottom line, no one understands enough about the brain. Treatment is trial and error. And as noted, individual patients look for many alternatives to help their conditions. Many go through years of misdiagnosis, years without treatment, years of suffering.

Again, I say, it is up to an individual to get as much info as possible. I wish I'd had the internet when I was a kid! Also as noted in my recent support group -- no one should ignore (and savvy doctors are aware of this) diet, exercise, and even a spiritual center, meditation, cutting out caffeine make huge differences in how progress can be improved.

Again, I know so little despite my research and fascination with neurology (even with forensic psychology - an addiction of mine 8) ). I want to get well. I have said I'd take turpentine if I thought it helped.

I've learned a lot from the different experiences of those here on the Board. And I've also learned to be greatly sus of the medical profession. That's been hard for me as my parents were both doctors, and indeed felt they were "Gods".

My current psychiatrist -- a medical student/psychiatric intern is learning from ME; lord he's a child! What I like about what he has said to me is, "I am your employee, what do you need/want from me? And what can you teach me?"

And again, talk therapy, a strong social network, support groups, hobbies, writing journals, etc. are all important and shoudn't be left out of the equation.

Anyway, using your one case history above, I don't see it saying "take magnesium" -- the next step may be to supplement a patient's treatment with magnesium or to do double blind trials with it. Who knows? These trials are difficult; getting volunteers is difficult, getting money for research is difficult, etc.

So, I guess that is my response for that.

Also, my writing free form like this ... I print it out, and add it to my growing pile of writing. Expressing myself like this is very useful and helps me sort out stuff in my head.

But the brain? -- the final frontier. Extremely complex. Outrageously complex and we can't get there to poke around as we do with other organs.

We each do what we can, weigh what information we come upon.

Cheers.
And to the Yanks, Happy Memorial Day!*


----------



## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

um...thanks to all for the responses. i wasn't saying that everyone on this board should be on meds or anything...just trying to tell people what works for me. i don't take klonopin every day but i have taken it for weeks at a time and when i stopped i noticed absolutely no withdrawal symptoms. unfortunately, i know what withdrawal symptoms feel like as i'm currently going through ultram withdrawal (of all the stupid things to get physically addicted to, eh? :? ) which i take for endometriosis. anyway, it's not pretty and i'm telling you that klonopin has never given me anything close to what i'm experiencing now.

who knows though...everyone is different and i'm sure dreamland can pull up some medical proof that i'm wrong and i *do* experience withdrawal everytime i stop taking the klonopin... :wink: tee hee...(ps don't get offended dreamland or anyone...i'm just joking around)


----------



## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

well, i work at a medical clinic and so i just went back and asked the doctor about klonopin. he said that yes, klonopin is definately addictive but at the levels i'm taking it i don't have much to worry about...so, i guess i'm just lucky to only have dr at certain times of the month.


----------

