# Freakin out about the meds



## peaceboy23 (May 25, 2005)

So i've been on Geodon for about a month, on 80 mg for a few weeks. I had that little wihtdrawel episode last week...well now i'm feeling like it again, my muscles feel twitchy and i feel a bit hot like feverish and my head feels funny. I'm freaking out that this is some delayed potentially fatal reaction...is there a possiblility that reactions can happen thsi delayed into taking the medicine? It could just be that i'm obsessing over it and that's making it wose. now my neck feels stiff...so i'm sure I have Meningitis. Sigh.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

its been 4 months since ive been completely off meds, and i still have horrible ticks and restless leg syndrome. i got this after taking a combo of Abilify and Namenda, along with my normal dosage of Wellbutrin, and it never went away. of course it was much worse when i first started taking it to the point where i couldnt even stand up, so the doc took me off it. they symptoms are not as bad as they were, but i still have a hard time sitting still for too long i feel like there are bugs crawling all over my bones in my legs. and if im not mindful of it my legs start bouncing all over the place. its horrid. :?


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Oh my gosh sleepingbeauty.....who the heck put you on Namenda? Thats the newest Alzheimer's medicine....My god thats incompetent. Wow....thats the weirdest combo I've ever heard of. Lets see : Ablilify reduces your norepinephrine, serotonin, and dopamine, then he puts you on Wellbutrin to INCREASE your norepinephrine and dopamine, and then gives you an Alzheimer's drug to increase your acetylcholine. I think thats the first time I've heard of *those* drugs being used for DP. Guess we can say that they definitely dont help....Get some GABA from the health food store. Might get rid of some of the restless leg. How's your blood sugar doing?

Peace
Homeskooled


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## jake (Jul 12, 2005)

peaceboy ask your doctor tomorrow about those ticks and stuff, it may help ease your mind. I hope you feel better soon. On the other posts I was just curious if anybody knows what causes that restless leg thing; I was diagnosed at a sleep lab in 1994 but refused the meds (levidopa/carbidopa) b/cuz they just seemed kinda outlandish to me. I just had general anesthesia Thursday morn for an operation and when they put the mask over my face my legs started goin to town! A lady said do you have restless legs syndrome and the last thing I recall is just saying mmm hmmm..

it was Wicked Bad in recovery room as well--- just comin outta my freakin skin. I don't know what the hell they used but it didnt agree with me to say the very least. I got home Friday and still feel withdrawl but I know I had alot on board even the whole time I was in my room that day and overnite etc...so glad to be home.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Peaceboy, 
I dont think its anything serious. Call your doctor and let him know, but you probably need it lowered. Every single antipsychotic out there, of which Geodon is one, causes restlessness, shakiness, and muscle twitches. They all shut off dopamine receptors, which control our movements. Just ask to have it lowered.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Tom Servo (Sep 19, 2005)

Hey, P.B.

First off, sorry about the Astros.

Secondly, and this is pretty much just a reiteration of what Homeskooled wrote,

Common side effects of Geodon include the following:

feeling unusually tired or sleepy 
nausea or upset stomach 
constipation 
dizziness 
restlessness 
abnormal muscle movements, including tremor, shuffling, and uncontrolled involuntary movements 
diarrhea 
rash 
increased cough / runny nose

They won't kill you, though.

Basically, all anti-psychotics tend to make people feel like sh*t. Lowering the dosage will help. Apparently taking the stuff when you go to bed helps, as well. If you're still miserable, meds for Parkinson's Syndrome help with the twitching and all that. They also redue the effectivenss of the med, though.

Re: meningitis - can you bend your neck down and put your chin on your collar bone? If so, you almost definitely don't have meningitis.

So - is Geodon helping you at all with DP, or is it just making you want to writhe out of your skin?


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

Tom Servo said:


> They won't kill you, though.


i disagree with this. seriously, when my RLS was at its worse, i thought i was going to have a heart attack or go into a coma it was so bad. it was so bad that i contemplated killing MYSELF just to make it stop. its maddening.

i really sympathize with anyone who experiences this. give me DP anyday of the week. i can handle that much better then having my muscles spaz out and bugs crawling on me.

i dont want to hijack peaceboys post, but to answer your question homie, yes my doctor is retarded. like ive said before she thinks meds are tictacs. shes a nice lady but she has no clue. she perscribed me the Abilify to treat my ADD. and supposedly the Namenda was supposed to help my concentration. The Wellbutrin i was already on was to treat depression and panics. i didnt get perscribed anything to treat DP/DR specifically because they told me it was a side effect of my other laundry list of stuff and would go away on its own.


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

I'm really freaked out about this RLS now. Can it be cured? I forget to take my klonopin for a day and I start twitching. My god, I can't imagine what I'll be like off meds. I used to go on and off meds all the time with no prob... I guess they have finally taken their toll.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

ok before anyone jumps on me for freaking people out, im just saying my own experience. everyone is different. but yes peacedove, rls sucks. but its something that is usually consistant, so if youre only getting it when you miss a dose, thats prolly just normal WD and not RLS. but you wont know that until you are off meds. since its not happening when you are on them i wouldnt worry.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Gave you Abilify for ADD? Holy cow...thats just incompetent. ADD means a LACK of neurotransmitters in the prefrontal cortex. Antipsychotics like Abilify bottle more of them up so that they cant be used....thats grounds for a lawsuit. And gave you dementia/Alzheimer medicine to help with concentration?? If anything, the Wellbutrin is for that, but with DP, it'll just make the temporal lobes misfire more (its the only psych drug which has been linked to seizures). Oh well. I'd give you some Lamictal for depression and DP and call it a day. I have to accompany my bipolar roommate to the psychiatrist's office, just to make sure he doesnt overmedicate him. He had Tim on Zyprexa and Lamictal, and the zyprexa was affecting his sugar as well as making him suicidal. I kept telling the doc, and he kept lowering it, and finally I got it dropped. Then he wanted to put Tim on Abilify. Needless to say, the man went to Harvard, and is once again just a pillpusher, not a thinker. Psychiatrists have given up on being scientists. I make sure Tim goes to a family doctor now to simply get Lamictal, 200mg. Keeps him from having psychotic manic episodes and suicidal depression. On top of that I give him Omega 3 fatty acids since they were linked to a remission in Bipolar symptoms at Harvard. I dont want to see his body messed up by endless psych med experimentation. Thats probably what triggered my porphyria. On a lighter note, I would recommend L-tyrosine too. It will increase the dopamine which the Abilify depleted, which may in turn stop the tics. How has your sugar been? Still trying the South Beach?

Peace
Homeskooled


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Hi 
Don't want to hijack this thread either (sorry peaceboy), I just want to ask HOmeskooled a question if that's ok.

I'm on Effexor. It worked last year for me, not long after reaching 150mg. I slowly stopped obsessing and DP soon lifted. I came off it in May. Hellish withdrawal but totally worth it for the fact it gave me my life back.

I got DP back in September and it is hellish. I have been on 150mg for a few weeks now and I'm as obsessive as they come. And getting down about it. Can you give me some advice please?!?!?!?!

again, sorry for hijacking!!!!


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## Tom Servo (Sep 19, 2005)

Hey, P.B.,

I looked up Geodon - you're at 80mg? That's the maximum dose. WFT? No wonder you feel like sh*t. Even back when anti-psychs were routinely prescribled for DP, it was for a low dose of high-potency meds, like maybe 6mg of Stelazine or Navane (A lot of doctors prescribed a lot more than that, but probably with almost no with success). How familiar is your MD with DP? Sounds like you're being given way, way too much of the stuff. Unless, of course, it's helping your mind. Is it?

Well, maybe that dose at least helped get you through bottom of the 9th of last night's game. I certainly could have used 80mg of Geodon in the last 7 seconds of the USC-Notre Dame game. I'm still fuming about that (Hell, I'm still pissed off about games Michigan lost back in 1972! No wonder I ended up with DP).


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## peaceboy23 (May 25, 2005)

No it's not helping my mind at all...in fact I thnk it may be making it worse, or at least it's just as bad. My head just feels funny all the time now. It's actually my psychiatrist I don't know why he put me on such a high dose, but I definately dont' like it. I see him on Wednesday and i'm gonna get off it hopefully.


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## Tom Servo (Sep 19, 2005)

Was this the first med he's ever prescribed for you?


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear G-funk, 
I've seen this alot with Effexor. It seems that when people taper off and try it again, even months later, they need a higher dose. You can try going a little higher, although I'm not sure they go much higher than 150 or 175 with Effexor XR. Women seem to respond especially well to it, and this may be because it regulates your hormones a bit, as it is used for menopausal symptoms. You can try taking just a little bit of 5htp with the 150, and see if it helps. You can find it at a healthfood store. Take the minimum reccomendation, as it creates serotonin, which is low in OCD states. Dont overdo the 5htp, as you'll get serotonin syndrome with too much. If the Effexor doesnt hit it, the next med your psychiatrist should try is Celexa. Low side effect profile, high amount of efficacy in DPers.

peace
Homeskooled
PS- Increasing the carbs in your diet will also increase your serotonin levels. There are many ways to treat mental illness...Lastly, or maybe first, you can try taking a B complex with the Effexor. B vitamins are used to make all neurotransmitters. It may augment its effect on you.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

cheers Homeskooled, will give it a try
Gxxx


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Hey G-Funk, I thought you were withdrawing from Efexor ? Changed your mind?

And as we are pumping Homeskooled for information - mate, do you know why my lipid count would be abnormal? I went for the results of my recent checkup this morning, and my platelet count is the same, but apparently there is 'concern' about my lipid count. As I understand it, they are fatty globules that stick to your blood, or something. The doctors keep banging on at me to stop eating fatty foods, but I never do, really !!! So what else could be effecting it ? Booze I suppose?


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I did withdraw about 4 months ago and then got DP and panic back last month


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Bummer. 

Why not try Cipramil this time? Although I went through a bit of a trauma getting off it (coz I cold turkied), as you know it's nothing in comparison to the dreaded Efexor withdrawal. Did Cipramil do nothing for you? Or perhaps 5-HTP as Homey suggests?


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Cipramil worked for me a few years back, then when I got full-on DP last year, I tried it again and it seemed to spiral me downwards. I'm not blaming the drug, yet it seems funny that Effexor then began to work for me and this second time around, I'm getting worse not better. Maybe I need a completely different drug!
My mum in-law-to-be runs a health food shop so she can get all these supplements free/cheap so I might exploit that avenue.

My other thought is this - maybe these drugs don't do anyting at all, my DP just takes it own course? I mean, I know they do SOMEthing, I can feel it, but I'm sure the reason I feel better is when I get into focusing outwards and not obsessing. Ultimately its down to me. I can't rely on a drug, I'm very much of the mind that the long term answer is for me to learn new coping skills. I'm seeing a psychoanalyst at the moment and I have learnt some stuff about myself in just 4 weeks, but it's so hard at the moment because I'm geting married in December and what should be 'happy days' is like torture because I'm paranoid I will feel this way on the day and be a gibbering wreck! I feel so guilty for not being all happy and chirpy about it.

Sorry, TOTALLY hijacked this thread now.  APologies!


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> My other thought is this - maybe these drugs don't do anyting at all, my DP just takes it own course?


You know what, secretly, I believe this too. I don't want to scare anyone, but I really don't think anti-depressants are any good whatsoever for DP alone. The ONLY drug that has had ANY impact on my DR was, I'm sorry to say, a benzo. I used them when required, so I could continue with my life and the DR faded away. I really don't think that Cipramil made any difference whatsoever, but seeing as I now seem to have depression related complications, I'll still keep taking it.

But I guess it all depends on the trigger/cause of your DR/DP. In my case, it was panic and anxiety, not depression, so I suppose that is why benzo's and not anti-depressants worked for me. It's only now, ironically, that I have 'agitated depression', and no DR/DP. Sigh. What a world.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

The doc gave me valium but I have resisted because boyf thinks its a bad thing to start. I'm also worried I'll get hooked because I use alcohol as relief too. I'm worried I'll get addicted and then have to go through withdrawal. I've heard so many scare stories. I imagine taking it and feeling so relaxed that it might freak me out!!! What does it actually feel like. It seems to me that it is the only thing that can take the fear away.
I am constantly on edge, shaking, feeling sick, lost sh*tloads of weight which everyone thinks I'm doing for the wedding.
This sucks :roll:


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

It's a good thing to resist, but, there comes a time when your symptoms are affecting your life so badly that you need something, anything, to calm you down enough to take steps to sort your head out. As you know, when you are a total anxious wreck, you can't do anything about it.

Listen, when I first took Valium the relief was incredible. Literally, within half an hour. I certainly didn't 'freak out'. I was overjoyed that I had returned to planet earth and immediately started thinking about what I needed to do to sort myself out. That's important. Don't just sit back and enjoy the relief. And yes, of course, it doesn't last for long, but if you use it sensibly, when you absolutely need it, I absolutely recommend it, or one of it's alternatives. For me, Clonazepam (Klonopin) is best, because it doesn't give you the mild euphoria that you can get with Valium. It just takes away your anxiety.

It's not inevitable that you'll get hooked...just be sensible about it. I know there is a freakish attitude to benzo's, but most credible doctors have no qualms giving it to people who need it, and on the understanding that they aren't going to abuse it. Just because you use alcohol to calm down (much like the rest of the planet - not just us crazies), doesn't mean you'll reach for the benzo's everytime you feel uptight. And several doctors have told me this - if the worst came to the worst, they'd rather I was addicted to benzo's than being a total alcoholic. And I agree.

You should have seen me before my wedding. I was exactly as you describe. I was on so many benzo's my doctors were astonished that I could actually stand up. But once the wedding day arrived, the anxiety vanished and I never took another benzo until we broke up, a year later. And I can't remember any withdrawal from it.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Guys, 
Martin, your lipid count may be elevated because of your liver, if my memory serves me correctly. First sign of liver disease is high cholesterol. Stop drinking. Yes, you must. You are getting complications from it if your lipids are high, and there may already be alcohol-related damage. Cut down to no more than 3 beers a week, then get to about 3 a month. Quickest way I can think of, besides you cutting down on fried foods and milk products. You can also take Niacin for it. For what its worth, both G-funk and Martin, I keep telling people on this site (although it appears that noone listens) that DP is not a mystical disorder. Current research shows that more than likely, and they have known this about bipolar disorder for years, that it is caused by sub-clinical seizure activity. This is THE reason why the only benzo to cut it is the only *anti-epileptic* benzo developed, Klonopin. Why does Valium help, I wonder....hmmm....because it is used for seizures as well, maybe? Lamictal? Gosh, could it be that its an antiepileptic? What are the symptoms of TLE? Existential thoughts, dissociative feelings, visual disturbances, mood swings, and Martin, *unexplainable feelings of rage*. What charcter traits are common in those with TLE? Unusual urges to write copious amounts, ie, hypergraphia. How many budding authors are on this site? One person on here commented on how peoples brains on this site could "melt steel". Where did my DP'ed brain show unusual activity on a SPECT scan? My temporal lobes. Sorry guys, but its not that complicated. Most people probably dont have clinical TLE. The only way you would find it is with a 24 hr EEG or a functional brain scan, like a PET or a SPECT. Most people cant afford them, or their psych wont order them. But just knowing what I know, its a pity more people on this site dont try them. Sometimes depression will cause poor functioning of that area, so if someone says they respond to Effexor, it sometimes lifts the DP. Although most times, I think it just messes around with the firing there just long enough to give you remission, and then BAM! It comes back with a vengeance. People with TLE show obsessive traits. What do we see daily on the site? Neuroligists usually give their TLE psych meds on top of the anticonvulsants, because it causes certain personalities to pop up. Usually hard to please, philosphically bent, moody people. So taking an antidepressant on top of that can help (especially ones meant for OCD). But first and foremost, I think people need to try anticonvulsants like Lamictal, Neurontin, etc...for their temporal lobes (DP) and Parietal lobes (DR). The only people who may not benefit from it are the people on the site with drug induced "DP" who simply feel brain dead and wiped out. I believe those people have drug damage and drug induced depression which can improve with abstinence, antidepressants, and proper supplementation of B-vitamins, omega 3s, and amino acid precursors. Thats it. Do I think anyone will take this to heart? Probably not. Because the fallacy which comes with most brain disorders is a *lack of insight*. You must use the broken organ to decide on a course of therapy, and usually the delusional thoughts prevail. In schizophrenics, its usually the fact that they* know* they are being chased by the CIA and that the television is talking to them. In people with DP, they beleive it is an existential issue they must "think" through. Or it is a problem with their soul. Or its their personality problems...etc...but of course, all that leads to is the protracted unending struggle that all people who have brain disorders (ie, mental illness) go through. Think outside of the box, people. *Outside* of your minds. Hopefully someone will take this intolerably long post, take some medicine for those lobes, and get on with their lives, leaving this site behind forever.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Wonderful reply Homeskooled. Excellent stuff. I really do need to cut down on the booze...I don't even really enjoy it anymore, and the hangovers are horrendous.

Regarding the rest of your post....I agree entirely. There is nothing mystical about DP at all. I'm glad that you acknowledge that us drug-induced DP'ers may differ, but I think we should also add that DP, in itself, is - simply, a reaction to a percieved threat. I wouldn't say that TLE covers the entire spectrum. But saying that, it's a very interesting idea. I'd love to see a scan of my brain, if they do one for grey mush. But still, does simply describing the experience explain it?



> unexplainable feelings of rage. What charcter traits are common in those with TLE? Unusual urges to write copious amounts, ie, hypergraphia


 :shock: Sweet holy squids. Could it be me? Could I have TLE ? I sat up till 3 this morning writing. I couldn't sleep until I did it. And rage...tell me about it. Christ.

Anyway, great post. One of the best I've read in ages.[/quote]


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Only drug induced DPers with the "washed out" symptoms or visual disturbances from LSD differ in my opinion. Damage to the temporal lobes (and I suspect the parietal lobes , which play a part in DR - they process 3 dimensional vision, and are skewed on almost all DP/DR patient scans) can happen from absolutely anything, in which case you will also have these symptoms. The most likely causes are drug use and head injuries. And these also cross over with TLE, because head injuries can cause epilepsy, and drug and alcohol use lowers the seizure threshold ( which means that it increases the likelihood of having them). Luckily, unless you have the washed out type, all damage to these areas responds to abstinence and anticonvulsants. And just like an actual epilepsy patient, you would have to find the right anticonvulsant, and not expect to cure the personality disorders which pop up with temporal lobe damage. You can, however, expect the DP, existential thoughts, and mood swings to lessen, or even possibly dissappear. Yes, Martin, I think you have incredily erratic activity in your parietal as well as temporal lobes, and even better than medicating with alcohol, use Klonopin or Lamictal, which is quite honestly, becoming the Holy Grail of psych medicine. Although I expect that most people will continue to not pursue these options for two reasons : (1) The delusions will prevail and they will continue trying to sort it out internally or even with therapy ( which I think in most cases on this site actually tends to *increase* their increasingly fractured obsessing, and (2) People are afraid to have their hopes up. To look for an answer, again, only to fail. You would have to have some tenacity in going on this route, including trying out more than one anticonvulsant - most people dont have the spirit left or the tenacity to pursue it to the bitter end. But if a brave soul does take a chance and pursues it, they will at worse find they still have DP, or at best, find themselves free of 2 dimensional vision, mood swings, and feelings of alienation from their bodies. I'm not usually quite so direct as I dont feel I need to prove myself, or have to have the "right" answers to people's questions on the forum, but I cant stand by and let truths that I see as obvious to anyone with medical knowledge who has studied this problem, which admittedly isnt very many, be hidden or overlooked. I want to see people on this forum kick DP's posterior, and stop losing years of their lives, and Nobel prize winning intellects, on it. Because, come on, people on this forum do indeed have brains that could melt steel.

Peace
Homeskooled

PS- Martin, I tried sending my first manuscript to a publisher when I was six. Random House rejected me, of course, but I know exactly what you mean. TLE and temporal lobe damage are also cause of another phenomenon - hypersexuality. In its severest form, people are making love to chairs. In its lesser form, just like writing, sex also becomes an obsession.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

mine couldn't melt butter


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

I want to post one more thing - in neurology, there is a word that actually describes DP very well. It has long been known that the temporal lobes tend to engender a feeling of being "connected" to oneself and one's body and actions. In DP, the commonest feeling is that one is "not there" any more, and is simply witnessing their body going through the motions. In neurology, patients with temporal lobe damage are said to lack *kinesthetic* ( I hope I spelled that right!) recognition. *This* is what DPed people seem to lack. Luckily, its a condition that is very real, has been seen before, and can be explained through actual brain pathology. There is much, much research out there, if only more doctors saw what I see.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Homeskooled, God Bless you for everything you've said.

The only meds that worked for me are Klonopin and Lamictal. I just went off nortriptyline (given by a brilliant shrink who also likes to push meds) and I swear it really never did anything. And I worshipped this idiot and listened to every word he said.

So Klonopin, Lamictal and Celexa are my mainstay.

Also, Martin, I know now that I was certainly Borderline most of my life. "Mood Dysregulation". I had awful rages. I was never self-destructive, save hurting myself in relationships, but women in the main have more Borderline. Men, have their own versions, I'm certain.

I'm just speculating here.

Also, I'm terrified of ALL the antipsychotics. NOT TO SCARE ANYONE. But these stories drive me wild.

Sorry, I've also hijacked the thread.

First question: who asked? Yes, call the M.D. And RLS is not that uncommon as far as I understand it. But indeed these meds can cause it. It needs looking into.

SB: Your doctor is insane, LOL. Sorry. I agree. Grounds for a frickin' lawsuit.

I am tired of believing in most doctors these days. ANY doctor. They push meds for anything. Order excessive tests for anything. I'm learning to say NO. It all started with me believing my parents, who were doctors, were Gods. They believed they were Gods. It's taken me a long time to move away from that.

And again for the 800th time, IN MY EXPERIENCE, I've been on 6mg Klonopin since 1987, EIGHTY-SEVEN. It was the ONLY drug to save me from topping myself because the DP/DR was so hideous I could barely function. Didn't get out of my apartment, couldn't drive my car, work.

I don't know what all the hoopla about Klonpin is about. Agreed, why not NEED Klonopin instead of being addicted to alcohol.

Martin, I see self-medication there. I see a lot of self-destructive behavior. I see unhappiness. I can't tell you what to do, but I think some of this could be addressed with meds.

*OH I'LL SHUT UP.
Everything that Homeskooled said!* :shock: 
Best,
D 8) 
*Anyone with a med problem/question should go to his/her doctor ASAP. NO NEED TO SUFFER.
I still have a headache 3 weeks hence from going off of Nortrip. I figure it will pass, and it's not unbearable, and no head zaps thank God.*


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

Do the benzos work for obsessive thoughts? My dp is very much caused by obsessive thoughts/controlling thoughts - basically trying to 'right' things in my head.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Thats what I was told too, but since obsessions are also part of what neuroligists have termed the "temporal lobe personality", I tend to think that you are listening to your delusions. You may think it is caused by your obsessions, but I tend to expect that they are one in the same. Lamictal, however, brushes the serotonin receptors as well as being an anticonvulsant, so it has the possibility of helping OCD behavior, although I dont think this has been studied yet.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

but what about the people who have got better on therapy alone?

I'm of the mind it's a bit of both


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Hmmm....well, I cant honestly think of too many people cured with therapy. I know of Janine.....I dont know who else on here. I've seen two other kinds of cures : (1) the ones which fade away on their own, like Martin's (2) The one's which go into remission with medication, like yours. I think therapy helps address the end products of the misfiring - obsessivity, mood swings, isolation, narcissism, but that if you have these things _in conjunction with_ a lack of kinesthetic recognition ( your ability to feel part of your body) or changes in spatial vison (Derealization) then I think you have something going on not quite yet defined by modern science. For lack of a better term, I call it misfiring of the temporal lobe. For instance, yes therapy can affect thought patterns. But you cannot therapeutically induce misfirings of neurons which end up causing seizures. And you wont be able to cure seizures, or sub-clinical equivalents, with it. We think with the prefrontal cortex and frontal lobe. That is what we deal with in therapy. Our perception, our body map, our vision - these occur in the other, functional lobes. The occipital lobe (vision), the parietal (spacial processing, body map), the temporal lobe (recognition of self, others, memory, visual tracking). These cant be touched by conscious thought. Since the temporal lobes are near the frontal lobe, sometime depression affects them. Thats about it. These things are very, very testable and repeatable. I really do think there is a line that can be drawn when it is needed, and when it isnt. Once the temporal lobes become skewed, they affect the conscious thoughts. So therapy can deal with the end product, but not the source. My view, in any event.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## qbsbrown (Aug 18, 2004)

Homeskooled, I couldn't agree more with you from a neurological standpoint. Yes, klono is the only drug that has worked for me. Lamictal worked for about one week (greatest week of my life since DR 4 yrs ago), and now seems uneffective.
So im giving celexa and klono a try. SSRIs alone have done nothing, if anything make worse.

For about the first 2 yrs of DR, I insisted it was neurological, not psychological in any sense. I could FEEL it in my head. Saw 3 neurologists, neuro-optimologist, and one neuro-psychiatrist.
Did 2-3 mris, cat, and 2 eegs. But NO PET or SPECT. 
Granted i hadn't found this board, and didn't know how to express my emotions of what i was feeling (thinking they would just send me to a shrink), most were saying atypical migraines.

Why isn't this obvious? What isn't mnt siani and kings college on top of this?
Why aren't there being more scans done, and less online surveys of crap we already know?

Peace,

Q


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## qbsbrown (Aug 18, 2004)

And i second the motion to taking benzos than to alcoholism. Been there, done that, and i'd rather be dependant AND addicted to klono than booze in a heartbeat.
Love the cavalier attitude we have about alcohol and tobacco, and yet the stigma on benzos.
I think once millions start dying from benzo use, then we should start bitching about it. Til then, it's the wrong battle.


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## kchendrix (Feb 28, 2005)

OK Dumb question, If Psychiatrist and Psychologist all agree that people with anx/depress and DP/DR are not Psychotic then why do they try to treat people with anti-psychotics?

You are not seeing things or truly loosing touch with reality so why the antis


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Because they dont know what to do with DP. Some really do say that its a form of psychosis, and unigirl is on one because they think she has a form of schizophrenia which is causing it. Trust me, they tried them on me too.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## kchendrix (Feb 28, 2005)

So am I to believe now that even though I have been repeatedly told I have no psychosis, that I am indeed psychotic after all?


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2005)

Ive read that if occuring alongside halluciantions or delusions DP is a symptom of schizophrenia.
My doctor has been prescribing me 30mg/daily of abilify i think on the beleif this is the case with me, it might explain why a few people have claimed complete cures happening due to taking abilify.
Although i imagine only a minority of DP is due to schizophrenia.

The wikipedia article on DP is intresting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalisation


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Don't let the word "psychotic" scare you.

It doesn't mean you're Norman Bates!


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Bob Dylan is right on, kchendrix. Almost all of the cases of DP, in my opinion, exist alone, and other damaging behaviours (OCD, obsessive ruminations, existential thoughts, mood swings) occur because of the brain pathology, the "temporal lobe personality"as neuroligists call it, and are not the cause of DP, but rather its symptoms. And it doesnt really matter what a psychiatrist calls you, because if you look at it on a biological level, there is no difference between a "psychotic's" brain and a "neurotic's" - all of them are just varying degrees of screwed up neurons. All psychosis means in psychiatry, anyways, is that you've lost touch with reality. A neurotic builds castles in the sky, the saying goes, but the psychotic live in them. So whether you are psychotic depends how you look at DP. I dont think people with DP are psychotic - I reserve that for out and out hallucinations. But I do think we are more than a little delusional when we begin to think we dont exist, or others. DP kind of straddles the fence between, and its easy for a psychiatrist who is unfamiliar with it to label it as a psychosis.

Peace
Homeskooled
PS- Nice to see your avatar again, Sojourner!


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> hypersexuality. In its severest form, people are making love to chairs. In its lesser form, just like writing, sex also becomes an obsession.


There's a good short story by Clive Barker about Hypersexuality - The Blind Boy. Check it out if you have the time. It's not overtly lurid, just a quite superb bit of story telling. But I would say that because he's one of my favourite authors. His imagination seemingly knows no bounds.

I think I have 'Psychological' hypersexuality - as in, I'm constanly thinking about it, but when it comes down to it....yawn...I can't be bothered. :roll:


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## orangeaid (Jun 24, 2005)

hypersex, yeah i solve that with my hand.


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