# Matt's Guide to Getting Better.



## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Hi everyone. So I've been feeling a bunch better lately. Most of you already know my story - but this will be my third battle with DP/DR in my young life. It will also be my third period of recovery. The last time I recovered, I felt better for two full years. This time I hope it will be forever. I should start by saying that I am still a long ways from 100%. I am still on meds, and am actually going through an extended period of withdrawal as I slowly get off Benzos. So I still feel like crap some days, even on my best days i'm more like 90% - not 100%. Yet I still feel that I have some points that may be valuable to some of you that are going through this hell.

*My Story: *

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18169

*My 'qualifications' to be discussing this*

Beyond my story, people will justifiably ask if I have any other qualifications to be talking about DP/DR. The answer is not really, but it should have a large asterisk beside it. I have a BA in psychology, but as most people with undergrad degrees know - that is far from making you an expert. More importantly - I have dedicated a great deal of time in my life during my worst times to trying to understand what is going on with me. I have talked with lots of great people who suffer from this, and learned their experiences. I have chatted with a variety of doctors with various expertise. And most importantly - I have suffered with this for a long time overall despite periods of recovery. With something so minimally understood in the scientific community, right now the best we seem to have on the topic is personal accounts and understandings. Science will catch up, don't doubt that it will. But with such a complex disorder, everyone will still have to find their own path.

*My theory on DP/DR and related states: Issues with control*
I would wager that a great deal of those with DP/DR have issues with control. A great deal of these probably don't even realize they do - I know I didn't. I'll visit this again in a second.

First - I feel extremely confident saying that DP/DR is a defense mechanism that developed long before the neocortex had evolved to its current state. We see a very similar example of a defense mechanism in the much more well-studied fight or flight mechanism common in anxiety disorders. My theory is that DP/DR is a cousin to this defense mechanism aiming to compliment and counteract some of its effects. Think way back in history. A man encounters a lion - he needs the immense rush of the activation of the sympathetic nervous system to either fight or flee from this lion. But as most of us in life or death situations know - we don't always do this. Our sympathetic nervous system gets activated, but we freeze. The situation overloads our nervous system. Enter DP/DR. Creating a temporary surreality to the situation removes ourselves from it. We get disconnected from the impending danger of the lion and we are able to use our active sympathetic nervous system to make the best possible decision. The feeling of unreality could save our lives. Outside of the situation, the man is safe and happy and forgets the situation. A much less developed brain would be able to make use of a feeling of unreality. But evolution is imperfect and didn't count on the disastrous consequences of mixing feelings of unreality with a fully developed neocortex, capable of self-analysis. We aren't capable of coming face to face with a situation that makes us anxious, feeling the unreal feeling and go "Oh, this feels unreal - cool, i can better deal with the situation now". Instead it scares us to the core to lose our sense of reality, and our sense of self. We are able to view ourselves as part of our reality and we have come to trust that perceptions of reality are stable. To lose this is deeply disturbing to us. Our first episode of DP/DR is often horrific. Some people begin self-analyzing immediately, bringing on the endless cycle of anxiety and DP/DR right off the bat. Others are shaken by the experience but return to normal, only to watch for the feeling to come back - noticing every fleeting second of it until they can't get the feeling out of their mind and are trapped. Others, while troubled by the feeling find some comfort in it. The world was scary - and while this is weird and hellish, i'm protected from external threats in my environment. Scared of drowning in the 'pool' of life, we'd rather just dip our feet in while others swim around us.

Bringing this back to control. I believe that while DP/DR are the most stressful of symptoms - they are one of many in a big puzzle that is this disorder. That is correct - I believe that at least in the vast majority of cases, DP/DR are just symptoms. One doesn't have to look very far to see that DP/DR specifically are about 1 in 100 of the symptoms people describe on this board. Despite all of what I just said up there - most people do not get 'stuck' in episodes of DP/DR. So many people report having a car accident, it felt surreal to them and then they went on living their lives. So what makes us different? Two things, both of which are related to control. The first is that DP/DR are symptoms we are NOT in control of. They come, they scare us - we want them gone NOW. Some people describe DP/DR like permanently being stoned. Those who enjoy getting stoned might at first question what is so wrong with this - but people enjoy getting stoned BECAUSE they can control it. They have a bad day, light up a joint and forget about it. The pleasure comes in part from knowing "I am messed up right now, but I can wake up tomorrow and be ready to go in a right mindset again". Those with DP/DR do not have that pleasure - so we resort to our natural human tendency when anything goes wrong: to fight it. Many of us don't realize we are fighting it. I denied for years that I had anything to do with my DP/DR sticking around. It was just there. Only over time did I realize my constant obsessions and ruminations over DP/DR were feeding my illness. I became stuck with the chinese finger trap dilemma. Pulling might be tightening the trap in a hopeless battle but by god, pulling was the only way I knew how to feel in control of the situation so I was going to keep pulling. All of you do this. I hear cases all the time that say they have no anxiety or obsessions. Anxiety maybe not: I can't tell people whether or not they feel fear. But you are all here on a consistent basis, and you are all still ill: therefore I am confident I am not overgeneralizing when I say you all obsess over your disorder.

The second control part comes when we have had DP/DR long enough that it becomes our defense mechanism of choice. We unintentionally and unconsciously use it to try and control our reality. You may have had the experience where you were talking to a loved one and noticed they were acting a bit strange: suddenly DP/DR comes on full-fledged. "This must be a dream, this person doesn't act like this in reality", etc. This is a perfect example. We are uncomfortable with the unpredictability shown by this loved one, so our brain flips on that switch. We try and create our own reality. Suddenly we are flipping that switch in our heads on a consistent basis trying to control our own reality and only getting ourselves more terrified by the fact that we can't, yet we feel unreal all of the time.

*What about drug-induced DP/DR. Is it different?*
Not inherently no. The thing about DP/DR is that every case is different. A drug-induced and anxiety-induced pair of individuals may actually be closer in their underlying causes and patterns of appearance of DP/DR symptoms than two drug induced or two anxiety induced individuals. I don't know enough about the neurochemistry of the brain to provide an in depth analysis of what goes on there. I do have a hunch that there are two types of drug-induced DP/DR individuals: The first are those that were prone to anxiety and DP anyways, and the drug experience just unearthed this. Lots of people use drugs and I think it can accelerate an underlying issue that would have presented itself in time anyways. The second don't seem to have this issue - it seems like the drug activated the DP/DR defense mechanism on its own without the underlying issue. I don't believe that treatment in terms of therapy would be any different for this group - but courses of medication certainly might.

*Forgetting how to live: the severe cases of DP/DR*
So i've explored feelings of unreality and why I think they present themselves - how our control issues keep them present. But how do people like you and I end up with such a jumble of symptoms? At my worst I could barely understand conversations around me, I couldn't remember what I had done 5 minutes before. My cognition broke down. I broke down. I will use an analogy that I have used several times on this website that I think is of key importance to understanding a break down. Think of something you do that requires natural physical ability: playing a sport, playing an instrument, etc. I'll use playing the piano as my example. A person learning the piano often plays in very fragmented and broken pieces. They analyze each note, often look down at the keys, etc. Once they learn how to play, they can fall into very complex pieces of music without hesitation. Their fingers seem to operate on an entirely different level of consciousness - they don't need guidance from the mind, they just move. This same piano player gets on stage for the first time in front of a large crowd. They are nervous. They think to themselves "Think this through, don't screw up - you've got to hit every note perfectly". They begin to watch themselves play, think about each note they have to hit. They begin to hit all the wrong notes - their self-analysis grows stronger, and their performance falls apart. They have taken themselves back to their beginning level.

In recovery I am almost amazed at how natural life feels: It feels so natural it almost doesn't feel right. Because I have been living within the realms of self-analysis and self-control so long I have forgotten how to live. Basic human functioning works on its own: memory, thought processes, streams of consciousness, conversation, etc. - all of these operate outside of self-awareness. Not to say we are not aware of our memories, thoughts, consciousness, etc. - but to say that we are not usually aware of the processes behind how these things work. The self-analysis we inherit from the feelings of DP/DR and from anxiety in general are toxic to these functions. In the case of memory: we try and remember things in ways that no normal human could remember them. We spend our time testing our memory, we get a constant nagging fear that something is wrong with these processes. I LITERALLY could not remember what I did 5 minutes earlier when I was at my worst with memory - yet there was nothing ever wrong with my memory besides my introspection and self-analysis. I disrupted a natural human process. Once again, something that I felt that I had no influence on - my memory seemed to just be fading away, but instead I was directly affecting it simply by watching it disappear.

*So how do you get better anyways?*
Loaded question: but since its the topic of my post i'll try and tackle it. Two key schools of thought on this around this website: distraction and acceptance. They almost seem to contradict each other. They don't and both are immensely important in recovery Distraction isn't necessarily the right word however, which is why it gets confusing for some people. Distraction in itself when used as a means of treatment does not work. The person will go out, do something with friends - forget about their DP for a little bit, but find it lurking as bad as ever when they return. When they question themselves about whether or not they were actually feeling any better the answer was no. I was just distracted. JUST distracted. Distraction from the illness of DP does not make it any better than temporary distraction for a patient suffering with cancer. Instead its more appropriate to say: turning your gaze outwards. Getting out with friends is unbelievably important. Continuing to live life, and to keep yourself busy is even more so. But without understanding why distraction made life more temporarily enjoyable it isn't going to cure us. For a while you weren't focusing on yourself. Instead of sitting around and questioning how unreal you feel every 30 seconds like you would at home, you were able to maybe go 3 minutes without thinking about DP/DR. This is what is worthy of a pat on the back - get involved with life and reward yourself on any extra minute you can go without dwelling on DP, or your memory, or thought processes, etc. I seriously bet that none of you, when at your worse go more than 30 seconds without thinking about how you are feeling. You have to build this up. The cure doesn't come instantly, it is a slow buildup. One day you'll have gone a week without thinking about DP/DR. You may still feel like it was there for that week but this is still progress. You are working towards the feelings evaporating completely.

As for acceptance - this does not mean accept that you are stuck with this condition and deal with it. Not at all. It means accepting DP/DR for what it is. A defense mechanism. Learn the positive self-talk and thoughts that you can use to counteract the horrifying negative thoughts that come with feelings of DP/DR. Everything from the horrifying crazy-sounding thoughts we all get from time to time: Maybe i'm dead, maybe i'm dreaming, maybe I made the whole world up in my head, maybe i'm developing schizophrenia - to the more grounded ones of "What if I feel like this for the rest of my life". None of these will be a reality for you. Life will go back to being as pleasurable as it ever was, and maybe more. Learn with DP/DR feelings really are: tell yourself they are just a defense mechanism. They can't hurt you. If you can deal with them calmly, they'll go away, etc.

*What about meds/therapy?*
I used to be against meds for myself, mostly because I was scared of them. I thought somehow that maybe medication would change me permanently or screw me up permanently. That was until this most recent breakdown. I literally could not have dealt without medication. There is nothing wrong with taking medication, there is nothing weak about taking medication. They may give you side effects but they will not hurt you. I took Clonazepam and Lexapro - I would definitely recommend Benzos to anyone suffering sheer terror from this. SSRIs are also worth a try - they have helped plenty of people.

I must get a word in on the flip side to maintain balance though: drugs carry addiction risks, so use them responsibly. I have gone through minor hell to try and get off a ridiculously small dose of Clonazepam and am still not there yet. Do not abuse them, know the risks when you go on them, and get off them very slowly. Be very careful. That being said, even with my addiction problems - i'd go back up to my full dose of Clonazepam in a second if things got bad again. It helped me get through. Also - I really do not believe in 90% of cases that drugs are a CURE. They are a piece of a puzzle and some people may even need them to get better, but they are never going to melt away your DP. You have to deal with the issues i've talked about above: control issues, focusing outwards, acceptance, etc.

As for therapy. CBT is what I would recommend right off the bat. As DP/DR sufferers we all have some really negative thoughts that are important to address. Not to say we are pessimists because some of the most hopeful people I have ever met are on this board. But we all let our fears and issues get the better of us. Therapy can be beneficial in making this happen. I also encourage that everyone be seeing a mental health professional if they can afford it - it helps to have someone for reassurance.

*I'll add to this, but for now: Some final words*
Every single person can beat this. Almost every single person WILL beat this. It will be the hardest thing you will ever do. Like me - you may relapse. But you all have it in you. You are all fighters. Keep on fighting. I have seen some unbelievably dark and scary days. Days where I was sure I would go insane, or maybe end up having to kill myself because I wasn't able to deal anymore. Right now life is enjoyable again. I never thought i'd see the day. Please everybody hang in there.

Finally: Thanks to everyone on this board who helped me. You all know who you are. I will eventually get around to sending personal thank yous on to all of you. You seriously played a key role in saving my life. To those of you still fighting: let me know if there is any way I can repay the favor. Don't give up.

This isn't goodbye or anything. I'm not cured 100% yet and I still want to help people. I will be on less due to a busy schedule at work now that i've started my full time job.


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## Guest (May 16, 2009)

Thanks for this Matt as I was contemplating something last night that I will not even name, I think you know what it is, because it was so bad, and is even worse today. :x But I have a HUGE question for you. My BIGGEST issue, fear, thing that bothers me and scares me the most about my DP is what I reffer to as feeling "non-existent". Like I literally feel like I don't exist at all. The dissconnection from myself and everything else is so intense that I feel non-existent, like Im not where I know that I must be. Where, in your opinion, would you say this sensation comes from, what im potentially doing could intensify it, and how can I fight through it because it is making me unable to function normally as my mind is telling me that I have dissapeared and am not in control of my self. I would also like to add that my DP and this non-existent feeling is 100 times as intense when I wake up, why the heck is that? you should feel better when you wake up because your mind has had time to rest and heal right? Thanks Matt. :wink:


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

eduEDU1 said:


> Thanks for this Matt as I was contemplating something last night that I will not even name, I think you know what it is, because it was so bad, and is even worse today. :x But I have a HUGE question for you. My BIGGEST issue, fear, thing that bothers me and scares me the most about my DP is what I reffer to as feeling "non-existent". Like I literally feel like I don't exist at all. The dissconnection from myself and everything else is so intense that I feel non-existent, like Im not where I know that I must be. Where, in your opinion, would you say this sensation comes from, what im potentially doing could intensify it, and how can I fight through it because it is making me unable to function normally as my mind is telling me that I have dissapeared and am not in control of my self. I would also like to add that my DP and this non-existent feeling is 100 times as intense when I wake up, why the heck is that? you should feel better when you wake up because your mind has had time to rest and heal right? Thanks Matt. :wink:


I've experienced the feeling of not existing before, and I know how horrible it can be. But while I did not specifically address it in my post, I believe the same concepts apply.

What you are experiencing is an illusion. You exist. In your logical mind you know that you do. If I asked you to define existence, you would give me a set of criteria, every one of which you would meet.

The problem is never with the symptoms themselves. It is with our perception of them. You have run into a 'nowhere to hide' situation. Your mind perceives an external threat about reality, tries to help you by making you feel you don't exist, and in turn the feeling makes you more anxious. The way to stop it is to accept and distract. Turn your focus outwards, try and stop asking yourself how you feel, if you feel like you exist, etc. In terms of acceptance: accept that you are real, that you exist, that you are okay. Eliminate that doubt that lingers at the back of your mind. Tell yourself the truth: No harm can come to you, this won't last forever. Reinforce these thoughts 100 times a day.

And most importantly: get involved with life. Find something you love doing and feel connected to and passionate about. Engage fully. If that is your relationship with God that is fine, but it has to be active not passive - get out and volunteer with your church community, etc.

That's all a start - wish you the best of luck in getting better.


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## Guest (May 17, 2009)

Matt210 said:


> eduEDU1 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for this Matt as I was contemplating something last night that I will not even name, I think you know what it is, because it was so bad, and is even worse today. :x But I have a HUGE question for you. My BIGGEST issue, fear, thing that bothers me and scares me the most about my DP is what I reffer to as feeling "non-existent". Like I literally feel like I don't exist at all. The dissconnection from myself and everything else is so intense that I feel non-existent, like Im not where I know that I must be. Where, in your opinion, would you say this sensation comes from, what im potentially doing could intensify it, and how can I fight through it because it is making me unable to function normally as my mind is telling me that I have dissapeared and am not in control of my self. I would also like to add that my DP and this non-existent feeling is 100 times as intense when I wake up, why the heck is that? you should feel better when you wake up because your mind has had time to rest and heal right? Thanks Matt. :wink:
> ...


Thank you Matt :wink: Ill try my best and this has helped a lot, knowing that it is only an illusion or a sensation. And I hope you are getting better as well. And good luck with your withdraw program with the benzos, I hope it goes well for you. I would do that but I dont think this is the time. Thanks again.


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## hd83 (Jan 10, 2006)

Matt,

I've had DR for about 5 years now. I'm on Clonazepam and Cymbalta at the moment. Most of the time I never think about my DR, I don't have obsessive thoughts, I don't question my existence or being real, and I've accepted that I have a mental illness but will get better. I went to a therapist, exercised all the time, ate well, etc. But I didn't start to feel any better until I took Clonazepam. I believe that different people will recover differently. Some people will recover using medication, for others they may find a different way. I distract myself all the time. Why do you think that only distraction and acceptance are the ways to recovery? I'm not saying that people can't recover that way because they can and have. I just don't believe it is the only solution to DP/DR.

Heather


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Hi Heather,

I don't think I said anywhere that distraction and acceptance are the only ways to recovery. I also said that medication helped me, and I had positive words about both medication and therapy as helpful and in some cases necessary tools to getting better.

This is just my opinion on how to get better. It is what worked for me. This guide to recovery will be particularly of use to those who are anxious and obsessive. But I wanted to make it clear that even those who don't feel that they are obsessing about DP/DR may in fact be doing so. Too many people write off good advice because they don't feel it applies to them. Countless times on this board I have seen it.

No one is required to take my advice. I wrote this as much for me as I did for anyone else. I know that most people on here will never take the time to read a post this long. Having this written down here as a guide will help me should I relapse.

Hope you find your own path to recovery.

Matt


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Thanks for this guide Matt. Looks like you put quite a bit of work into it. Hope you're doing well.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Conjurus said:


> Thanks for this guide Matt. Looks like you put quite a bit of work into it. Hope you're doing well.


I'm doing great thanks Jesse. How have you been?


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## hd83 (Jan 10, 2006)

I'm glad you're doing better Matt - I just wish I could recover like you did. I think medication is going to be the key to my recovery (as I have already gone to therapy). I hope you continue to feel better and congrats on beating your DP/DR! 

Heather


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## Guest (May 17, 2009)




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## Guest (May 20, 2009)

Thanks Matthew. I'm going to print this out and tattoo it to my chest. Yeah, yeah - I know: back to front so I can read it in the mirror. I'm not _stupid_.

Glad you're better. Give your balls a playful twist for me.


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## justmaggie (Apr 6, 2009)

Thank you Matt, your experience was both helpful and thought provoking. I've gotten out of the stage of DR/DP but i still feel empty somehow & my anxiety somehow likes to push irrational thoughts into my head. I didnt take any pills, the doctors never helped & ive pretty much told no one about it, its somehow left me so cold inside but at least I dont have DR anymore. Have you ever had a similar experience?


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## konstantine02 (Mar 12, 2009)

I was wondering what happened to you because the few times I've been on here recently, I haven't seen any posts from you.

Congrats and thanks for those awesome words of wisdom.

I'm too lazy/tired to think of anything else worthwhile to say, so I will leave it at that for right now.


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## ricky (Feb 4, 2009)

thank u matt,for ur helpful post


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## jfromaz (Mar 23, 2009)

Matt kicks ass, thanks for taking the time to help us out


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## Zee Deveel (Aug 3, 2009)

That was a really interesting read, thanks very much.

It's great to hear of someone who felt like they'd be stuck this way forever finally recovering, because I know right now it feels permanent for me.


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## PANDALOVE (Sep 9, 2009)

Matt210 said:


> Some people describe DP/DR like permanently being stoned. Those who enjoy getting stoned might at first question what is so wrong with this - but people enjoy getting stoned BECAUSE they can control it. They have a bad day, light up a joint and forget about it. The pleasure comes in part from knowing "I am messed up right now, but I can wake up tomorrow and be ready to go in a right mindset again". Those with DP/DR do not have that pleasure - so we resort to our natural human tendency when anything goes wrong: to fight it


I read this to my boyfriend and he FINALLY got it through his head lol. He would always tell me I was wrong about the whole "being stoned" thing and I would tell him that he wouldn't know because he actually LIKES being stoned...

This post was very interesting and made me feel good


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## DownTheRabbitHole (May 30, 2009)

Matt210 said:


> Hi everyone. So I've been feeling a bunch better lately. Most of you already know my story - but this will be my third battle with DP/DR in my young life. It will also be my third period of recovery. The last time I recovered, I felt better for two full years. This time I hope it will be forever. I should start by saying that I am still a long ways from 100%. I am still on meds, and am actually going through an extended period of withdrawal as I slowly get off Benzos. So I still feel like crap some days, even on my best days i'm more like 90% - not 100%. Yet I still feel that I have some points that may be valuable to some of you that are going through this hell.
> 
> *My Story: *
> 
> ...


quoted for truth!

matt, i dont know if i read this before, and subconciously used the exact same method here, or explored it for myself.

but i have pretty much recovered i reckon, with the exact same thoughts on it as you have(although some of your details and descriptions, i could never have worded like you have)

i think people could read it, and not FULLY understand what you really mean by it all, but from what ive been through
forgetting, and accepting, were the two major key factors for me.
and just learning to understand what it was all about, and actually teeling yourself that your better, seems to go a along way in maybe tricking yourself into realism again.

anyways folks.

id recomend, fully understanding what matt says, its SAGE ADVICE 

(..from my own experiences...i dont even have a BA in psychology...read a psychology book though  )


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## russo327 (Aug 24, 2008)

i have had dp/dr for 4 years now, when I look in the mirror I am totally disconnected from my own reflection. It seems as soon as something happens it feels like forever ago, and all my past memories dont feel like mine. I wonder if i am more severe than others and if i am so severe that I will never get out of this? Its like I have no feeling of time at all, im just moving from scene to scene. I have not found anyone to talk to or who also feels how I feel. Or if some one has felt like this and got better?


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## DownTheRabbitHole (May 30, 2009)

yes mate , ive felt like that,

i now recognise myself in mirror
time still feels abit hazy, bt i feel like im in the NOW


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## York (Feb 26, 2008)

russo327 said:


> i have had dp/dr for 4 years now, when I look in the mirror I am totally disconnected from my own reflection. It seems as soon as something happens it feels like forever ago, and all my past memories dont feel like mine. I wonder if i am more severe than others and if i am so severe that I will never get out of this? Its like I have no feeling of time at all, im just moving from scene to scene. I have not found anyone to talk to or who also feels how I feel. Or if some one has felt like this and got better?


I have the thing you have with the memories and time. I didn't recognize my reflection either at first, but either it's become better, or I'm becoming used to it. I don't like looking in one for too long though. I also wonder if I have it more severe..
Guess that's normal. I used to wonder the same when I had hangovers.


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