# derealization is not caused by anxiety



## rob35235

Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe derealization/DP disorder (that is, the chronic, constant state of DP/DR) are caused by anxiety. I very firmly believe that anxiety/panic are CAUSED by the derealization/DP disorder. It just makes no sense to me that my pulse can be 60, my body deeply relaxed, and have absolutely no physical symptoms of anxiety whatsoever, yet in my mind I feel like I am sitting at my computer in some alternate reality on some alien world with this weird lightheadedness and inability to process thoughts.

Thoughts?


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## adyttzzzzu

My dp started after a panic attack,and when i spoke to my psychiatrist about it being chronic he said that once the conditions for it to apear met (in the panic attack)i continue to keep it alive by constantly fearing it and checking if it's still there...dunno if that made any sence.


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## flipwilson

It's possible every case is different so I only speak for myself when i say I also believe my Dp is not caused by anxiety. I was an anxious person my whole life sometimes debilitating, but i never experienced what i experience now. The first time i was ever depersonalized was for one night after taking two hits off a joint. I suddenly felt like i didn't exist and nothing around me existed. I had no panic or anxiety that night, I was as calm as a hindu cow, but yet still depersonalized, I woke up the next day fine. I've had physicals and an EKG done recently and my heart beats at 40 beats a minute. That's athlete numbers and not the kind of heart rate you'd normally get if you were anxious all the time, yet I am depersonalized. Even in my infamous night in august of 06 I felt something shift drastically in my head before i ever panicked, I didn't panic and then feel the shift. I don't deny being anxious person may play a role, but to say that anxiety fuels my dp is false. When I had OCD for 7 years, mostly chronic, I would be very anxious and very withdrawn. When the episode would end and I would start to feel normal and get my old thought pattern back, I had no anxiety. My OCD caused my mental anguish which gave me high anxiety, just as DP now gives me anguish and thus anxiety, and sometimes I am so numbed I don't even get anxious any longer.


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## Claymore

rob35235 said:


> Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe derealization/DP disorder (that is, the chronic, constant state of DP/DR) are caused by anxiety. I very firmly believe that anxiety/panic are CAUSED by the derealization/DP disorder. It just makes no sense to me that my pulse can be 60, my body deeply relaxed, and have absolutely no physical symptoms of anxiety whatsoever, yet in my mind I feel like I am sitting at my computer in some alternate reality on some alien world with this weird lightheadedness and inability to process thoughts.
> 
> Thoughts?


I completely aggree. :wink: Ive NEVER thought that anxiety causes DP/DR. I think DP/DR causes anxiety and panic.


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## Who_Am_I

No way in the majority, just doesn't fit with the statics and facts we KNOW about the human psyche.

If you win the lottery, you'll get severe DPDR for days, you WONT believe it's true... why? because it's such a huge change so sudden that your brain'll be in denial and anxious hence causing DPDR.
Same with accidents, people get DPDR.
It's not like a coincidence people who are shocked in anyway (shock ALWAYS gives anxiety) just HAPPENS to get DPDR when something shocking occurs.
It's not a coincidence 98% of people with DPDR suffer general anxiety disorder, panic disorder, social anxiety, OCD, pure O, or some other anxiety disorder.


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## jfromaz

Agree with "whoami"


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## Claymore

Who_Am_I said:


> No way in the majority, just doesn't fit with the statics and facts we KNOW about the human psyche.
> 
> If you win the lottery, you'll get severe DPDR for days, you WONT believe it's true... why? because it's such a huge change so sudden that your brain'll be in denial and anxious hence causing DPDR.
> Same with accidents, people get DPDR.
> It's not like a coincidence people who are shocked in anyway (shock ALWAYS gives anxiety) just HAPPENS to get DPDR when something shocking occurs.
> It's not a coincidence 98% of people with DPDR suffer general anxiety disorder, panic disorder, social anxiety, OCD, pure O, or some other anxiety disorder.


Ok, you've figured out this much, now, how do we get out of this mess?


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## Who_Am_I

Well, I'm no expert, however I expressed my opinion on what helps in my thread "My take on DPDR".

All stories (and there is actually over 200) of people who have recovered got 2 universal descriptions of how they got out.
Either it was spontaneous, I.E. they just suddenly shifted back to normal perception, or it happened gradually...
The other thing most of these stories have in common is that they all say you just got to get the fuck outta your safety zone, you got to LIVE, not just cope, not just pretend, sure in the beginning you'll be "acting" more than you'll be truly "doing" whatever you'll attempt to do.
However you got to ACT like it's real, act like you are aiming for a Oscar award.

You'll notice a lot of new ones on here start like this:

"Hey, I think I got DPDR, these are my symptoms, they started a few weeks ago"
Then after being here daily for a month or two, suddenly they got all the symptoms the rest of us got just by reading about them.
This is simply because they stop living, they let a broken toe paralyze their whole body.
It's not hard to become severily depressed either, if you think about all the things bad in the world for a long time, and SERIOUSLY thought about it, you most likely would fit the criteria for clinical depression pretty soon.
So since you can develope severe DPDR just by reading about it you should in principle be able to recover just by living as if you were recovered.
However a recovered person doesn't think about DPDR, a person who's recovered and feel a little weird don't think about it at all, he/she experiences the feeling, but doesn't think about it because humans are built to change their opinions, focus, emotions thousands of times a day...
This is what we need to do to.
Easier said than done...

Many people, myself included say they are almost willing to die because of this, well then why aren't we really just living life, whats the worst that can happen? We die like we want to either way...?
Most likely we will cure like the hundreds of others on this site.
The reason these people don't hang around is because they don't got this anymore, there is NO reason for them to be on here, it would be a waste of time and be counter productive in catching up with the lost time DPDR caused.
It's like being on a depression forum, when your depression lifts and your back to your normal self, why'd you want to sit around discussing the symptoms of your non existent depression?

Sure some stick around to share their story and help others cure the way they cured, however even these people must move on to, or they may "relapse" into DPDR again by focusing too much on how it felt, then they get anxious, then get dpdr, and since dpdr is all they think about if they hang around here daily, it'll take a long time to "cleanse" the mind of this thought.

Another comparrison:
How often do you think about your favorite teddybear you had when you were 7? Probably never...
How often do you think about when some show you loved to watch as a kid comes on TV? Probably never...

Once in your life, these were very time occupying things...
You probably didn't go anywhere without your teddybear, you probably sat 2 hours before the favorite tv show came on, waiting, bored, thinking about it, then you watched it, and thought about it for an hour or more after you had finished watching it and during the week waited for the next episode...

My point? These things used to occupy your mind completely, now they never do..
Why? Because your teddybear doesn't hold any significance to you anymore... neither does that tv show or any other things that REALLY MATTERED to you before.

You moved on... The same can be done when DPDR is conquered, when you trust yourself, reality and the fact that DPDR never make people insane or vanish into some alternate nonreality...
Most likely it'll be a gradual process if you've had this for more than a year, eventually you'll just have a slight memory of it(atleast that's what everyone who has recovered says).
Just like I still remember my favorite teddybear and if I saw it I'd probably have a quick flashback, but it wouldn't suddenly consume me and I'd have to walk around with it anymore...

Sure you can relapse into DPDR after you have recovered, but this is because it's caused by anxiety and is a natural response to anxiety.
This is why after the DPDR sensation dissapears when anxiety levels are lower, you need to change your life a little, not saying you need to change a lot... just shit like, don't smoke pot, don't isolate yourself, don't live like a bum with no life plan, be more active, do sports, get some hobbies, new friends etc.
This sounds so fucking stereotypical, but after 3,5years and being close to suicide so many times I've realized that wtf this is actually the truth...
My old self is who I am deep within, but I can't go back to my old life, some of it, yes, but not the things that caused my DPDR...
No more pot smoking, no more 3times a week getting smashed on alcohol, no more overstressing, no more picking fights with people because I percieve them as retards...
I'll have to change to a more healthy lifestyle, learn ways to stress less, get new friends, get some carreer and life goals, get over some of my fears, like... flying
The more "small fears" you conquer, the less scary other things that you are scared of seem scary, because you learn it's all in your head...

DPDR is like a mosqito bite, sure first it really itches, but it passes UNLESS you scratch it, then it itches more...
If none of us had ever started questioning wtf the weird sensation was, we'd probably all be out of it within a week or two and back to normal existence.
But now, we did scratch, so it still itches, and now we have conditioned our minds to scratch even when we are not aware of it, so we are subconsciously scratching and making it itch all the time...
This is the part we must consciously change.
We got to stop scratching(overanalyzing and checking if we feel right, or if the world seems real, or questioning existence), let it heal and forget it...


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## Who_Am_I

Another proof that DPDR is caused by the psyche:

There's been people who have had DPDR chronically for atleast 6 months who have been cured by either:

Hypnosis
Homeopathy
Healing (reiki, chi, chakra cleansing)
Crystals
Quantum Touch
Law of Attraction
Prayer

And 100's other 100% nonexistent bullshit "treatments".

This shows the placebo effect of the mind, these people didn't know that these treatments were nothing, NOTHING, so they believed it was a real treatment they were getting, so they started feeling better, and more confident because they "knew" they were being treated... Suddenly they were cured and didn't even realize all that happened was that they convinced themselves they were getting a real treatment and by doing so got better by the belief of being better alone...

(sure, now the believers/ignorants will come and claim that some of these things are real, however they aren't, so I wont even get into a discussion. it's like talking to a tape recorder who only records a certain pitch, and that pitch is their delusional belief, all other things you say( reality ) will be filtered out).

Point is: in 98% of the cases DPDR is "just" anxiety


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## [rula]

Who_Am_I said:


> Point is: in 98% of the cases DPDR is "just" anxiety


99% percent of the time, dp/dr is secondary to some medical condition your ignorant lazy doctors haven't figured out yet and has nothing to do with anxiety.

the only role your psyche/stress/trauma plays is weakening your immune system and allowing bacteria, viruses and germs to invade your body so your dp starts, and lives on...or you use one of your "bullshit" treatments to make your mind/body stronger and fight off disease better.

only after you've exhausted all possible medical and scientific explanations as what could be causing your dp/dr (and there are quite a few other explanations other than just anxiety) should you really spend that much time analyzing your poor psyche :lol: there are millions of people around the world living under extremely harsh conditions, they're anxious, depressed, panicky...but not dp'ed.

get yourself tested. I used to spend a whole lot of time on this board analyzing my oh so complex emotional state when dp started, how "deep" and different us dp'er really are, how this all MEANS something and I just have to figure it out, and even how I'm keeping dp alive by "checking on it" too much (so I left this board 2 years ago.) well all of that is total non-sense, cuz after 5 years it turns out I have Lyme disease, and so do quite a few people I met on this board.

If you're not buying what your doctor is selling you, move on to the next one.


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## Who_Am_I

You my friend, sound like a retard...

And yes, the people living under those conditions ARE DPDR, read about PTSD (which nearly everyone of these people suffer from).
DPDR is a main symptom of PTSD.

99% of some other illnesss HAH, you some crazy idiot.
Yes I have researched this 3.5years my friend, and no, what you are saying is so false, in the scientific community your claims would be called "not even wrong".


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## [rula]

SO not interested in arguing with you, this is for the OTHER people on the thread who don't buy the anxiety explanation.

Please get tested for:

-Lyme Disease, esp if you've had an abnormal MRI. Lyme Neuroborreliosis causes dr and is treated with antibiotics, not psychoactive meds or talk therapy.
-Pyroluria
-Adrenal/hormonal imbalance
-TLE
-Celiac disease
-Respiratory/hyperventilation problems
-Chronic Epstein Barr Virus
-More I can't think of right now...


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## Who_Am_I

[rula] said:


> SO not interested in arguing with you, this is for the OTHER people on the thread who don't buy the anxiety explanation.
> 
> Please get tested for:
> 
> -Lyme Disease, esp if you've had an abnormal MRI. Lyme Neuroborreliosis causes dr and is treated with antibiotics, not psychoactive meds or talk therapy.
> -Pyroluria
> -Adrenal/hormonal imbalance
> -TLE
> -Celiac disease
> -Respiratory/hyperventilation problems
> -Chronic Epstein Barr Virus
> -More I can't think of right now...


I'm certain that a VERY small percentage of those who got DPDR may got any of these diseases, maybe even the disease is the cause of their DPDR.
However let me break it down real easy:

Look at how many got this from a joint > panic > dpdr.
Weed can't give you a disease... and no, it's not possible to lace weed with either pcp, lsd, or some other evaporating liquid...


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## adyttzzzzu

Agree with whoami.


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## [rula]

Gosh this total RETARD is so stumped by such a solid argument :lol:

Everyone on this board agrees that weed doesn't give anyone any disease, you have to already be predisposed. definition of predisposed? Stressed out, eating junk food, drinking a lot, not exercising, have emotional/mental issues, etc, etc. general body "stressors".

(look it up) Viruses and bacteria lie DORMANT in the body, sometimes for your entire life, waiting for a chance, for a sign of a body weakened enough so that they can take over. weed is just the trigger, it's not the cause. Let me break it down to you, friend, toxins+sugar+alcohol+stress+weed -> panic -> weak immune system -> virus become ACTIVE.

now that's greatly over simplified, but what can I do, I'm just a retard. and I have to go shopping...


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## Who_Am_I

[rula] said:


> Everyone on this board agrees that weed doesn't give anyone any disease, you have to already be predisposed. definition of predisposed? Stressed out, eating junk food, drinking a lot, not exercising, have emotional/mental issues, etc, etc. general body "stressors".
> 
> (look it up) Viruses and bacteria lie DORMANT in the body, sometimes for your entire life, waiting for a chance, for a sign of a body weakened enough so that they can take over. weed is just the trigger, it's not the cause. Let me break it down to you, friend, toxins+sugar+alcohol+stress+weed -> panic -> weak immune system -> virus become ACTIVE.


Well, let's examine this for a minute:

Yes, if your life is going perfectly and your brain don't got any predisposion to anxious disorder, you are safe to smoke weed (actually it treats lung cancer and remove cancer tumors by 50%).
Now, let's say hypothetically you had a bacteria/virus dormant in your body for years, then had a stressful time, smoked weed, and BAM MOTHERFUCKER YOU ARE DPDR'ed.

Here is what's wrong with this:
A active virus/bacterias effect doesn't happen in a split second, like it did for most of us who got drug induced DPDR.
I took a puff, started thinking "this high feels weird" and bam, been dpdred ever since, if it was a virus/bacterial infection causing this, it would progress slowly.
You wouldnt suddenly be mad anxious and DPDR'ed.

And none of the viruses you list got DPDR as a symptom...maybe the "fatigue" can be interpreted as DPDR, however to fit the criteria for Lyme etc. you need joint pains etc., which MOST of us do not have at all, so we don't got Lyme.
We got anxiety...

I've studied evolutionary psychology for 2 years now and want to give you a clear image of what I'm trying to say:
I had 2 chinchillas ( both died of cancer  ) anyway, one of them suffered severe anxiety when touched, he loved to be cuddled with, but quick movements etc. scared him.
Once I was vacuuming the apartment and he freaked the fuck out, first I thought he was dead, he was stiff, lied there with his eyes open, not even breathing.
I picked him up, he was completely "dead".
I couldn't believe he just died out of nowhere from the sound of the vacuum, then 3-4minutes later, he "woke up" from this trance and was normal.
This is seen is thousands of animals, they play dead, this is a natural response to percieved danger.
We do the same...

Now you ask "Sure, for a animal to play dead when being chased by a predator makes sense, because the predator rarely eats dead flesh due to the health dangers of eating dead things, how does this relate to us being dissociated?"
Well, our body share common traits with their brain, we are not designed, but evolved, like we got a tail bone we don't need from our monkey anchestors, we got this "deadness" response to fear.
However some of the DPDR effects are really evolved precisely to help you in a dangerous situation.

In this scenario: you are walking on a open field, suddenly you see a lion coming towards you, here you'll quickly panic, the panic will "drown" in the DPDR and you'll run on automatic.
Why? because if you just stood there in panic, you'd be eaten fast as fuck, but when DPDR sets in, no personal feelings/thoughts(what we percieve as normal life) are produced, all your brain is thinking of is getting you the fuck outta dodge...

Not to mention it is a defense mechanism of the psyche it self.
Acute stress disorder (temporar PTSD) doesn't really help in a dangerous situation, so instead of having a mental breakdown, the brain shuts off all extra stimuli so you wont get a overload of emotions in your head.

Lastly I'll copy something from wikipedia:

On DP:

*The symptom of depersonalization is the third most common psychological symptom, after feelings of anxiety and feelings of depression. Depersonalization can also accompany sleep deprivation (often occurring when suffering from jet lag), migraine, obsessive-compulsive disorder, stress, and anxiety; it is a symptom of anxiety disorders, such as panic disorder.*

On DR:

*These symptoms are common in the population, with a lifetime prevalence of up to 74% and between 31 and 66% at the time of a traumatic event.[4]*

At the end of the day, all the people who have cured are proof enough that this was caused by anxiety not some incurable braindamage, when all they did was get on with their life, no meds, no brain surgery, no antibiotica...

If you want to convince yourself you are brain damaged or suffer some permanent change, I'd advice you to stop wasting time here, you wont get better and you'll just make others adopt more symptoms, more fear and hence increase their DPDR.
Whatever you believe you got... there wont come a cure for Lyme, TLE or any of the other things you listed in our life time (and I'm 20) so... the best you can do is live life and stop wasting your time here...
In reality most likely you suffer DPDR from anxiety, but keep it alive by convincing yourself you have a incurable disease, self propechy...


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## Guest

i agree with whoami that it's caused by anxiety, weed can't "cause" this, however it can set it off, i for instance had little spells of it my entire life, they went away after a little, the day i smoked weed, it's been DP central ever since.


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## Claymore

Who_Am_I said:


> it's not possible to lace weed with either pcp, lsd, or some other evaporating liquid...


Actually pcp can come in pill form and can be crushed up and sprinkled into a joint. Its called "Angel Dust". My Dad Od'd by doing that.


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## [rula]

ya know Who_Am_I an argument is usually weakened when you totally make stuff up. When did I say Lyme was not curable or is a permanent damage? TLE is incurable? since when? you might wanna try a little googling cuz DP/DR is a primary symptoms of ALL the diseases I listed when in their neuro-stage, you can search this forum alone you'll find plenty of examples, people who recovered after they figured out their underlying disease. oh and I don't plan to stick around here, why would I?? I was just dropping in to speak to the people who don't feel anxious and doubt that whole explanation like I always did, letting them know they should get TESTED for totally CURABLE diseases instead of wasting years of their lives suffering like I did and listening to the same old non-sense. but you seem to have some need to argue, a tendency towards know-it-all'tism, and have somehow appointed yourself supreme dictator who laughably tells people to leave the board if their opinions are different from his. Whatever, LOL. no not everyone here has Lyme, and no not everyone will find some organic cause for their dp, but it's worth a shot.

if dp/dr is all anxiety, then how come all the xanax and klonopin in the world isn't curing anyone? better yet, how come the top researchers in the field are looking into things like Naltrexone, an opioid antagonists, maybe they didn't get the memo on how it's all just simple anxiety? I know you'll find this hard to believe but you're NOT the first person to suggest that tried-and-failed magical "just go out and live life" cure. but I do, sincerely, hope it works out for you.

as for your regurgitated theories on how we're just "playing dead in response to perceived danger", well lemme tell you a lil story...
the first 17 years of my life I lived in the middle of a civil war, literally dodged sniper bullets on my way to school, the city where i lived was bombed repeatedly, massacres happened around the corner from my house. but apparently my non-evolved psyche didn't feel the need to play dead back then, I never dp'ed not for one minute (well, possibly a min or two, but it wasn't memorable.) oh the REAL danger apparently is living a comfortable life in a sweet loft in one of the greatest cities in the world and having a great job that pays well. my psyche must be dyslexic. or maybe this whole "protection" theory is a bunch of BS.

so I'm outta here, everyone take care...but I will type up the "impressions" from my last MRI: "multiple punctate foci of subcortical hyperintensity...differential diagnostic consideration include vasculitis, viral or lyme disease, migraine headaches, and less likely primary demyelinating disease". Lyme gets inside your brain, and causes lesions that trigger dp/dr (depending on where in the brain they form) other viruses do as well, and yet it's taken me 5 years to find it because my doctors failed to point me in the right direction. Take charge of your own health, don't let them tell you you're just depressed and anxious and it's all in your head, cuz sometimes it's just not true...find a good doctor who will help you rule out anything and everything that can be causing your symptoms, or take advice from a 20 year old who may or may not have read a full book on psychology once.

peace!


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## Realiity

That could be true but I still question it.
I've always felt anxious, as long as I can remember.
Also, I've always been spaced out, from the day I was born.
So, I DON'T KNOW !
I just don't waste my time thinking about it :/


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## Ludovico

DP/DR is tricky because it both causes and is fueled by anxiety.


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## Realiity

I agree. :/


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## shorty_rerecovered

Who_Am_I said:


> Well, I'm no expert, however I expressed my opinion on what helps in my thread "My take on DPDR".
> 
> All stories (and there is actually over 200) of people who have recovered got 2 universal descriptions of how they got out.
> Either it was spontaneous, I.E. they just suddenly shifted back to normal perception, or it happened gradually...
> The other thing most of these stories have in common is that they all say you just got to get the fuck outta your safety zone, you got to LIVE, not just cope, not just pretend, sure in the beginning you'll be "acting" more than you'll be truly "doing" whatever you'll attempt to do.
> However you got to ACT like it's real, act like you are aiming for a Oscar award.
> 
> You'll notice a lot of new ones on here start like this:
> 
> "Hey, I think I got DPDR, these are my symptoms, they started a few weeks ago"
> Then after being here daily for a month or two, suddenly they got all the symptoms the rest of us got just by reading about them.
> This is simply because they stop living, they let a broken toe paralyze their whole body.
> It's not hard to become severily depressed either, if you think about all the things bad in the world for a long time, and SERIOUSLY thought about it, you most likely would fit the criteria for clinical depression pretty soon.
> So since you can develope severe DPDR just by reading about it you should in principle be able to recover just by living as if you were recovered.
> However a recovered person doesn't think about DPDR, a person who's recovered and feel a little weird don't think about it at all, he/she experiences the feeling, but doesn't think about it because humans are built to change their opinions, focus, emotions thousands of times a day...
> This is what we need to do to.
> Easier said than done...
> 
> Many people, myself included say they are almost willing to die because of this, well then why aren't we really just living life, whats the worst that can happen? We die like we want to either way...?
> Most likely we will cure like the hundreds of others on this site.
> The reason these people don't hang around is because they don't got this anymore, there is NO reason for them to be on here, it would be a waste of time and be counter productive in catching up with the lost time DPDR caused.
> It's like being on a depression forum, when your depression lifts and your back to your normal self, why'd you want to sit around discussing the symptoms of your non existent depression?
> 
> Sure some stick around to share their story and help others cure the way they cured, however even these people must move on to, or they may "relapse" into DPDR again by focusing too much on how it felt, then they get anxious, then get dpdr, and since dpdr is all they think about if they hang around here daily, it'll take a long time to "cleanse" the mind of this thought.
> 
> Another comparrison:
> How often do you think about your favorite teddybear you had when you were 7? Probably never...
> How often do you think about when some show you loved to watch as a kid comes on TV? Probably never...
> 
> Once in your life, these were very time occupying things...
> You probably didn't go anywhere without your teddybear, you probably sat 2 hours before the favorite tv show came on, waiting, bored, thinking about it, then you watched it, and thought about it for an hour or more after you had finished watching it and during the week waited for the next episode...
> 
> My point? These things used to occupy your mind completely, now they never do..
> Why? Because your teddybear doesn't hold any significance to you anymore... neither does that tv show or any other things that REALLY MATTERED to you before.
> 
> You moved on... The same can be done when DPDR is conquered, when you trust yourself, reality and the fact that DPDR never make people insane or vanish into some alternate nonreality...
> Most likely it'll be a gradual process if you've had this for more than a year, eventually you'll just have a slight memory of it(atleast that's what everyone who has recovered says).
> Just like I still remember my favorite teddybear and if I saw it I'd probably have a quick flashback, but it wouldn't suddenly consume me and I'd have to walk around with it anymore...
> 
> Sure you can relapse into DPDR after you have recovered, but this is because it's caused by anxiety and is a natural response to anxiety.
> This is why after the DPDR sensation dissapears when anxiety levels are lower, you need to change your life a little, not saying you need to change a lot... just shit like, don't smoke pot, don't isolate yourself, don't live like a bum with no life plan, be more active, do sports, get some hobbies, new friends etc.
> This sounds so fucking stereotypical, but after 3,5years and being close to suicide so many times I've realized that wtf this is actually the truth...
> My old self is who I am deep within, but I can't go back to my old life, some of it, yes, but not the things that caused my DPDR...
> No more pot smoking, no more 3times a week getting smashed on alcohol, no more overstressing, no more picking fights with people because I percieve them as retards...
> I'll have to change to a more healthy lifestyle, learn ways to stress less, get new friends, get some carreer and life goals, get over some of my fears, like... flying
> The more "small fears" you conquer, the less scary other things that you are scared of seem scary, because you learn it's all in your head...
> 
> DPDR is like a mosqito bite, sure first it really itches, but it passes UNLESS you scratch it, then it itches more...
> If none of us had ever started questioning wtf the weird sensation was, we'd probably all be out of it within a week or two and back to normal existence.
> But now, we did scratch, so it still itches, and now we have conditioned our minds to scratch even when we are not aware of it, so we are subconsciously scratching and making it itch all the time...
> This is the part we must consciously change.
> We got to stop scratching(overanalyzing and checking if we feel right, or if the world seems real, or questioning existence), let it heal and forget it...


*This was the best post I have ever read here. Congratulations man.*


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## Chris P Bacon

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I had terrible anxiety for 2 months before I got dp.

So the dp precluded the anxiety did it?

Idiot.


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## ourworldsgreatest

My DPRP was induced by an anxiety provoking event triggered by an anxiety disorder (OCD), so at least my case DPRP the chicken (anxiety) came before the egg (DPDR).


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## Skynet

I've had this shit for years. A chronic case 24/7. Sad to say that I'm very experienced in DP. Trust me when I tell you that "whoami" knows what he's talking about! Anxiety comes first. Then DP comes next. That is just the way it is! I remember getting the flu as a kid. A couple of times I also got DP. It's because I was feeling sick and focused on how bad I felt. This made me anxious. The DP came next.

My Dad was in the hospital while I was growing up. I worried about him. I got anxious and then I felt DP.

I watched TV one night. David Letterman read a letter I wrote to him on the air. This put me into a state of shock for about a half hour. Guess what. Once again DP hit me like a ton of bricks!

When I was 19 my Dad passed away. For the next 6 months I worried about how half of my parents were now gone. What would happen if my MOM died? I would be all alone in the world. No means of support and nobody to pick up those broken pieces anymore. Then I worried about being homeless. Well guess what all that anxiety did to me. Major DP that I still have to this day!!!

The good news is that I overcame this once as a teen. I had DP for 3 solid months. Had all the typical symptoms. Dizzy, Fuzzy head, nausea, extreme fatigue, felt half way between being aleep and awake, anxiety, panic and just plain sick! I didn't know what was wrong with me. All I know is that after feeling this for 3 solid months I really thought I was dying. All I could think of was that maybe if I could keep my head still and focus on one thing that maybe at least my dizziness would go away. So that is what I did. I focused on one object in my room. It was a bumper sticker on my dresser drawer. I sat up in bed and just stared at it like a mental patient. I didn't take my eyes off of it for 45 minutes. I could start to feel something change in me. My breathing got a little more relaxed. I think what I did was meditate without even realizing it. I certainly did not go into this staring routine by saying that I'm going to meditate though. All I said to myself that is that I am going to stare at one thing and maybe this freaking dizziness will somehow go away. After 45 minutes I still felt DP'd. I then decided to walk into my kitchen to get something to eat. All of a sudden BAM! While in my kitchen the DP instantly went away as if somebody just flipped a switch off. I looked up at the ceiling and thanked GOD. I couldn't believe it. I felt so good and the transition was so fast!! One second I felt awful and then one second later I was back to normal. This showed me that it's all in your head. Once you can get yourself to relax, your brain will relax and you will get better!

The hard part is that even with this knowledge, it is sometimes hard to overcome this. That's why I've had it again for so long. You can't just wish it away. You have to actually do things to make it go away. My problem is that I get easily frustrated when I don't get results fast enough and this makes me even more anxious. So it's a vicious circle where I can't seem to get myself out of DP this time. But if I could manage to concentrate and focus on relaxation techniques, I am certain that I would get better as quickly as I did before.

So to anyone who has had this for a long time. You are not dying of some weird mystery disease. You don't have a brain tumor. You most likely don't have anything else wrong with you except for the simple fact that you are anxious. You've scared yourself into a state of shock. You'll get out of it as soon as you can get your brain back to a place where you aren't scared of the world anymore.


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## StaciMarie333

Skynet said:


> I've had this shit for years. A chronic case 24/7. Sad to say that I'm very experienced in DP. Trust me when I tell you that "whoami" knows what he's talking about! Anxiety comes first. Then DP comes next. *That is just the way it is! *


No. It. Is. Not. The anxiety came YEARS AFTER the DP for me. Don't assume everyone else starts the same way when you have no idea.


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## missjess

Yeh ur right on there...1st it was DR and then panic hit


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## sunshinita

Staci,well if you had dp without anxiety,did you really have dp? And why would you want to get rid of it when it doesn't even make you anxious?Think about it.Having dp for years and then anxiety,well,all these years with dp what did you feel if it wasn't anxiety?Detachment is a part of the anxiety picture.Focusing on your symptoms and the fact that you have dp is still anxiety.Anxiety is not always panic attacks all over the place,anxiety can be pretty well hidden.Strange thoughts and feelings are still anxiety.I said the word'anxiety' too many times.


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## Relaxation

the DP definatly started way before my anxiety, the anxiety started when i started to freak out over the weird dp sensations


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## NEEDMOREBLAZE

You know fear, stress, and worry are the causes of anxiety and panic attacks...you can't have one without the other. You may not have had panic or anxiety attacks before DP, but there was definitely fear, stress, or worry.


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## golfvr6

2001 I had anxiety and panic in my body from a women who caused me distress.

I got time perception distortion for about 5 minutues and DR.

It goes to show anxiety and panic play a major part in DR.

the only difference is, as fearless pointed out, when we get dp nothing happens, yes we do go inward more

but we create a monster, the only difference is now, we focus on it 24 hours a day out of habit and checking in.

I think the way to get rid of it is liberate your self from it, and try to live. the more I focus on my dp the worse it gets

The more I try to fix it the worse it gets, the more I go on the this forum the worse it gets.

worthlessness is a major part of my dp, I need to remedy the problem

Anxiety and panic play major part in dp, the two big culprits, try to fix them will make dp much better

and the feelings of worthlessness and knowing your worthy..

once your mind see's evidence that you are not worthless, it will automatically put your mind at rest, but it needs evidence.

evidence does not work sitting at home.


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## flat

I'm not really sure by how we focus on it everyday. When you are concentrating on something like watching a movie or reading or even typing a reply here we're focusing on the task at hand...not really checking our dp. It's just so noticeable when we first got it...like you're suddenly wearing sunglasses all the time. But, eventually, you even get used to wearing sunglasses and sometimes forget you are wearing them, don't you?


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## seafoamwaves

flat said:


> I'm not really sure by how we focus on it everyday. When you are concentrating on something like watching a movie or reading or even typing a reply here we're focusing on the task at hand...not really checking our dp. It's just so noticeable when we first got it...like you're suddenly wearing sunglasses all the time. But, eventually, you even get used to wearing sunglasses and sometimes forget you are wearing them, don't you?


But with DP there's just a part of my soul that KNOWS I'm not supposed to feel this way lol. Like, my inner child is deep inside feeling totally normally. Or maybe he's hurt. I dunno.


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## SheWontFollow

Absolutely flat. I only recognize my DP when I think about it.


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## missjess

So what about members who have dpdr but did not get it from severe anxiety and panic attacks...


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## missjess

Dp is spiritual loss


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## missjess

Fearless said:


> LOL the only conclusion you're ever willing to accept. You're rigidly and rebelliously stick to an idea that suggest you'll NEVER ever recover, and doesn't make sense anyway.


Get over urself fearless u narrow minded small person...dp is VERY different in the early stages


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## AlexFromPT

We didn't lose anything. We just made a conscious choice (I actually remember when I decided to not give a shit about my traumas) of not letting real problems affect us. We ended up in a way we could better cope with our life. If you want to get "back to reality" then don't pretend you hate being in this cosy place, because you might not have noticed yet, but yes- we like being here. It's safe here and you'll eventually understand what I mean.


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## missjess

Speak 4 urself I know my personal story and I died long ago it's not that I don't feel "safe or in danger" I just don't care about anything anymore. So MY problem is soul loss


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## missjess

Nar I don't have to u already done it for me


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## missjess

U don't rlly have the right to go around preaching fearless u did not have it for long it is easy to get out in the first 2-3 years time. It does change the longer ur in it, I am not lazy I just don't actually feel like doing anything I haven't felt like myself in a very long time...I wouldn't even say I have dp anymore only DR and I feel completely dead my energy levels are absolute zero. I don't need to play any "victim role" who am I being victim too anyways I still have my life.


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## AlexFromPT

The root causes are the same, your symptoms are the ones that change. Why dont you have a nice long talk with a trusted peer? Try to express yourself. Youll feel better and by continously doing this youll notice you have not lost yourself. DP can get more complicated the longer you have it - especially if you go through more emotional abuse and trauma while dissociated. But its def not unsolvable you just might need to do more work. Thats my take on things im not an expert though

Take responsability now, not tomorrow you are wasting your life.


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## Guest

Fearless said:


> LOL missvictim





Fearless said:


> LOL. Try to underline it and make it bold like Dreamer so you can convince yourself better.
> 
> like:
> 
> *My problem IS SOUL LOSS!!!!*





Fearless said:


> And now you're trying to be even a bigger victim by "admitting" it. Missjess, I honestly wish you a good victimhood. Also the contradictions are shouting from your posts, I needed to turn down my speakers.


You wouldn't get away with this on any other site.



missjess said:


> Dp is spiritual loss


That's the tradtional way of describing it, and it's not incorrect. It's just another way of putting it. Anyone with a shred of decency and knowledge would understand that, use it as an asset and work with it, and certainly not abuse you for it. Tribes would tackle this with ceremonies of drumming and trance, the whole tribe supporting the afflicted and helping them to release their trauma and "recover their soul". Many recognised therapuetic elements are involved. It's the inner meaning and resolution that's important for the individual.


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## Guest

They really should.


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## missjess

I don't care wat u think fearless.

AlexfromPT .... It just feels like I've had it for way too long and I don't even remember what it feels like to be normal it's like my self is totally gone now. I can still talk to ppl etc but I just don't feel right anymore and all these symptoms are just a bourdon & fuking depressing now I don't even wana think about dpdr anymore


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## seafoamwaves

missjess said:


> I don't care wat u think fearless.
> 
> AlexfromPT .... It just feels like I've had it for way too long and I don't even remember what it feels like to be normal it's like my self is totally gone now. I can still talk to ppl etc but I just don't feel right anymore and all these symptoms are just a bourdon & fuking depressing now I don't even wana think about dpdr anymore


Don't worry I've had it for a long time too. Nine years, even though it's weird to have, DP/DR has never exactly been my biggest problem. I've always just had other issues I just never really knew how to handle. I just always thought DP was the result of my problems.

Do you really feel DP is that bad? Maybe there's other things tied to it?


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## Linguos

To put all these dialectic causes of depersonalization aside for a second here's one thing a lot of you might have in common. Beginning sometime around five years or so before my onset of chronic depersonalization I began to develop many idiosyncrasies in either thought or action that I did not feel comfortable revealing completely to any single friend. Perhaps I would reveal parts to some friends and parts to another, but it was just a more sublte evolution of the chameleon behavior I'd been learning to masquerade in front of others since a child. A bad seed in sowing it may have been, but as a child this was innocent and one-dimensional nonetheless, it was only with the development of those idiosyncrasies as an adolescent that I never felt comfortable disclosing in full blossom, but only in degrees, that chameleon behavior that became so dynamic that I began to alienate myself from all but the closest of friends. As I became an adult and the natural complexities of adult interpersonal relationships overcame myself while I explored life, in my case college, far away from those close friends and any other roots to comfort I'd enjoyed as an adolescent, that that lack of disclosure could finally be described as self-shame and outright lying. The final step is when the years consume all interpersonal honesty so profoundly that at last a person begins to deceive himself to himself. In fact, in hindsight I'm sure most people here can see that those seeds of withholding parts of themselves and exaggerating other parts were the earliest stages of losing themselves to themselves. But those early stages were temporary, only as those interpersonal echoes grow louder until their reverberation became literally all that one could define oneself by that the lose of parts of oneself became chronic and thus fractures became permanent in the guise of depersonalization.

The symptoms vary, just like those idiosyncrasies and flavor of shame. But do not many of you relate to this?

Looking back on this, this post may be redundant, and I think it's way more important to debate even if it sways into argument over absolute harmony, but nevertheness, it's nice to see where points of agreement overlap in opposite opinons, is it not? This is still a community within which we share more intimacy among ourselves than with most anyone else in daily life would ever understand on account of the obvious.


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## Guest

Linguos said:


> To put all these dialectic causes of depersonalization aside for a second here's one thing a lot of you might have in common. Beginning sometime around five years or so before my onset of chronic depersonalization I began to develop many idiosyncrasies in either thought or action that I did not feel comfortable revealing completely to any single friend. Perhaps I would reveal parts to some friends and parts to another, but it was just a more sublte evolution of the chameleon behavior I'd been learning to masquerade in front of others since a child. A bad seed in sowing it may have been, but as a child this was innocent and one-dimensional nonetheless, it was only with the development of those idiosyncrasies as an adolescent that I never felt comfortable disclosing in full blossom, but only in degrees, that chameleon behavior that became so dynamic that I began to alienate myself from all but the closest of friends. As I became an adult and the natural complexities of adult interpersonal relationships overcame myself while I explored life, in my case college, far away from those close friends and any other roots to comfort I'd enjoyed as an adolescent, that that lack of disclosure could finally be described as self-shame and outright lying. The final step is when the years consume all interpersonal honesty so profoundly that at last a person begins to deceive himself to himself. In fact, in hindsight I'm sure most people here can see that those seeds of withholding parts of themselves and exaggerating other parts were the earliest stages of losing themselves to themselves. But those early stages were temporary, only as those interpersonal echoes grow louder until their reverberation became literally all that one could define oneself by that the lose of parts of oneself became chronic and thus fractures became permanent in the guise of depersonalization.
> 
> The symptoms vary, just like those idiosyncrasies and flavor of shame. But do not many of you relate to this?
> 
> Looking back on this, this post may be redundant, and I think it's way more important to debate even if it sways into argument over absolute harmony, but nevertheness, it's nice to see where points of agreement overlap in opposite opinons, is it not? This is still a community within which we share more intimacy among ourselves than with most anyone else in daily life would ever understand on account of the obvious.


We feel ashamed of who we really are, so we hide are true selves away and create a false self to show and engage the world.

I've been this way since I was very young, so I have a poor understanding of who I truly am, but I know it's something very different from the false self I use to interact with people. The false self can never match the depth and complexity of a true human, so it's impossible to have a meaningful relationship, and it's act is so limited that should it have to be shown to people for to long, they will notice it only dose a few tricks on an endless loop. I avoid people for fear that my act becomes repetitive and they notice it's fake. Living life by pulling the strings on the puppet false self is shallow and tiring, but since I manipulate it from the shadows, any harm that life would do me just strikes the unfeeling false self, and I'm relatively unscathed. So, given the circumstances, creating a false self was better than letting my true self take constant beatings.


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## Linguos

I have often and typically do feel the same, but I have frequently been discovering that all personality disorders, cognitive distortions, interpersonal issues, etc. are shared by all--DP and non alike, we have that in common with everybody. It's a distortion of truth and borderline victimization to think that there is an ocean between us DP'ed and others. Following this logic I believe, at least in my own case for as I said I really only began burrowing this hole some five years prior to depersonalization and it is was only a gradual alienation, that for most average cases we were more or less normal in earlier adolescence considering how flawed the average non DP'ed adult is. Albeit we had, of course, already sown certain seeds for this disorder very early that had not yet blossomed into a nuisance but yet still many non DP'ed people in everybody's lives perceive through ceaseless cognitive distortions and it becomes easier to see as one educates and intimates oneself with the shame based theory of depersonalization that Harrington, fearless and such propound. Thus our DP predisposed nature that barely began to creep its nose up in our early adolescence, barely yet perceptible even to the trained mind, truly isn't so far different than a lot of average people as adults. I propose that only a few bad thought patterns grew untamed and at a certain point unleashed themselves without restraint to give birth to the inner storm we now experience. Therefore the important point is that anyone can indeed recall having a sense of self as is conventionally experienced. Certainly far from perfect, likely a bit looser self than those who have never relied on dissociation chronically, however it is important to consider because there is a reference point. If one agrees with this, then than person will likely further conclude that there was never anything exceptional about possessing a stabler core self. This is great because once embraced it gives the dissociated the courage to abandon all past reference in order to better plow through present obstacles to rely less on dissociation in the future.

However, therein lies an obstacle to agreement even among those who share this experience with me, Do those of mutual experience here object to feeling an inner storm, an occasional introverted and existential hell? Because it would seem that some in this thread would object. And even furthermore, and of most paramount importance, would anyone here object to this disorder being primarily a reliance upon the cognitive defense of dissociation and whatever cocktail of cognitive ailments within?


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## Guest

I think you're a bit to wordy, so people might not read your posts, and if they do might not get what you mean. It's always best to be as straight forward as possible when trying to help people.

From what I could gather, you're saying that since everyone is emotionally flawed in some way that considering these flaws as a cause of DP/DR doesn't make sense as only a small portion of people suffer from DP/DR. By this standard, emotional issues aren't a valid cause for depression, anxiety, panic disorder or drug abuse and alcoholism because everyone has flaws but they don't all develop those issues, but this is obviously not true. It's likely that cases of DP/DR are a reaction to emotional turmoil in the same way that depression and anxiety can be, but just a rare one that likely requires more specific circumstances, personality traits and predispositions by the person who develops it.

So it's a dysfunctional coping mechanism, but that indicates deeper issues. You can train a person not to dissociate, but the issues that caused them to do so in the first place still exists. If you had a person who developed alcoholism to cope with something like sever bullying, then it's a symptom of a deeper problem, so getting them to quit drinking hasn't fixed anything, thus they will likely move onto another dysfunctional coping mechanism until the emotional damage done to them is properly dealt with through therapy.

Simply put; everyone has emotional issues, but we all handle them differently and DP/DR is one of those ways, so it's more productive to fix the underlying issue that triggered the coping mechanism as opposed to fixing the coping mechanism.

,


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## missjess

seafoamwaves said:


> Don't worry I've had it for a long time too. Nine years, even though it's weird to have, DP/DR has never exactly been my biggest problem. I've always just had other issues I just never really knew how to handle. I just always thought DP was the result of my problems.
> 
> Do you really feel DP is that bad? Maybe there's other things tied to it?


My only problem is derealization now I don't have dp so much...it just feels like I've completely lost myself & I can't enjoy anything anymore


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## Guest

missjess said:


> My only problem is derealization now I don't have dp so much...it just feels like I've completely lost myself & I can't enjoy anything anymore


That sounds like depression


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## missjess

When I say I don't have dp anymore I mean I don't freak out over stupid shit and get constant 24/7 panic attacks...I'm quite normal now


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## missjess

Ok fearless what do u consider to be "DP"


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## missjess

My god just answer the question sometimes u sound like a broken record ur always repeating the same phrases why can't u actually reply like a proper person and just write what u think do u always have to be such a dick.


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## missjess

Why r u interested in responding to my posts then if u can't respond with real answers other then "ur only fooling urself" or "that I'm pretending" bla bla bla

Clearly u show no example of actually being a real recovered "person" if you continue to talk like that


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## missjess

I rlly couldn't care less about provoking u or not u just need to come up with more appropriate responses if u are going to comment on my posts. Stop spinning the same phrases it doesn't get anywhere


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## missjess

Not everyone's posts are bullshit just because they don't fit into ur criteria


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## seafoamwaves

Could ya'll please stop arguing <_< lol.


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## NEEDMOREBLAZE

Fearless vs. missjess....who will win this round??!!!

For what it's worth, i enjoy both of your views on DP


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## seafoamwaves

Younger me (seeing major problems in my family): "It's not that bad, other people have it worse"

I literally didn't know other people, dafuq did I think that for?

edit: Now that I think about, it kinda popped into my head:

My mom and dad always told me how 'easy' I had it whenever they punished me.


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## seafoamwaves

Fearless said:


> You think you had an other choice?


I don't think so. I feel like that's the only way I knew how to view my situation, that there was probably some poor kid in a third world country that was suffering and I didn't have the right to feel bad. My parents always told me how hard they had it growing up too.

I guess I didn't want to feel like I was unappreciative of having a "roof over my head".


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## seafoamwaves

Yeah, it sounds entirely maladaptive in retrospect, and now I know it didn't help me to think that at all. Sh*t, I think it caused more guilt than anything.

TOXIC SHAME lmao and I hate when people say that, but I guess it fits


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## missjess

Fearless said:


> just note that you haven't explained WHY your post is not bullshit. if you'd really believe they make sense and really thought I was wrong, you'd have explained it and move on. but since truth hurts you started to get personal and angry at me.
> 
> because you know you were not real and it hurts to see that I pointed it out bluntly. you have no other reason to be mad at me. I'm just a noname forum member.
> 
> haha. I'm just trying to point out your self-defeating behaviours. this forum is not the real battlefield, your life is. I'd use this forum to get out of DP and be able to fight out there.


Let's get 1 thing straight I don't take anything u say personally, wat YOU say makes no sense u preach about the same repetitive shit and don't even make different responses that actually correlate with what I say....u babble psychological bullshit that u learnt from Harris Harrington. The therapy I did incorporated everything that he says too and includes healing ur "spirit" & reparenting ur inner child if u don't believe that we have a spirit then that's ur problem. I can say for a fact that everyone with dp has a diminished spirit there may be a psychological label for that but it's so narrow minded.

Wen u say "the truth" it's not even in keeping with wat I write u actually really do not make sense wen u write, u don't have a normal reply at all


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## ravenexcore

rob35235 said:


> Ì
> Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe derealization/DP disorder (that is, the chronic, constant state of DP/DR) are caused by anxiety. I very firmly believe that anxiety/panic are CAUSED by the derealization/DP disorder. It just makes no sense to me that my pulse can be 60, my body deeply relaxed, and have absolutely no physical symptoms of anxiety whatsoever, yet in my mind I feel like I am sitting at my computer in some alternate reality on some alien world with this weird lightheadedness and inability to process thoughts.
> 
> Thoughts?


Im completely with ya there....9 months ago it randomly came over me giving me panic and both dr and dp...slowly over time I got control of the anxiety yet my condition seemed to be worsening. ..it was 24/7 and never let up...I was recently diagnosed with lyme and now that iv started treatment. ..I can feel my dr slipping away. ...I think if your dpdr is constant than its not anxiety....only if it comes and goes


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## Guest

This topic is a lot like an episode of Seinfeld.. A whole lot of talk about&#8230; nothing.

I can't see much value in arguing about what comes first.. anxiety or DPD or DR, except to vent a little.

Someone early on in this thread got it right tho&#8230; They asked, 'how about some solutions'.. That didn't much traction though.. That's what I'd be working on if I had dpd or dr&#8230;


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