# Something that bothers me



## Jayden

I read all the time in recovery stories and information websites that "your not going crazy"

But then I read that DP/DR is also caused by psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and bi-polar.

This bothers me because I have anxiety based around my fear of schizophrenia.

So like whats the deal here? I don't really understand. I feel like im going crazy, and I hope that I'm not going down that road.


----------



## Quarter Pounder

Well, that's a lie. When you have DPD, you _are _crazy. It's a kind of craziness that other people don't see.

But do not worry man, you won't end up in a madhouse or killing people, or some shit like that.


----------



## Aridity

Quarter Pounder said:


> Well, that's a lie. When you have DPD, you _are _crazy. It's a kind of craziness that other people don't see.
> 
> But do not worry man, you won't end up in a madhouse or killing people, or some shit like that.


That's really hars to say and to bad that aint true,asshole. And what's exactly the "lie"?


----------



## daydreambeliever

Aridity said:


> That's really hars to say and to bad that aint true,asshole. And what's exactly the "lie"?


How come you're calling someone an asshole? Don't know about you but I did not get on this site to interject and be judged by someone. DP sucks man and it is a mental illness, a severe mental illness. The difference is that we know we are not seeing things right and schizos think they are seeing things right. That's it and it is a thin line. But we know what is real and what is not and we know we aren't of the real world.


----------



## Guest

daydreambeliever said:


> How come you're calling someone an asshole? Don't know about you but I did not get on this site to interject and be judged by someone. DP sucks man and it is a mental illness, a severe mental illness. The difference is that we know we are not seeing things right and schizos think they are seeing things right. That's it and it is a thin line. But we know what is real and what is not and we know we aren't of the real world.


you ARE crazy.


----------



## Quarter Pounder

Aridity said:


> That's really hars to say and to bad that aint true,asshole. And what's exactly the "lie"?


Dude, what? There was no need to get mad about it. I was saying that the phrase "you are not going crazy" is a lie for people with DPD. "You are not getting any crazier" should be the correct one. People with DPD are crazy (I'm including myself here) but not in the traditional sense of the word. It's a craziness that can only be perceived by the sufferer, but not externally and that allows him/her to live a somehow socially normal life, with work, relationships, etc. Is the exact opposite of schizos. While they feel normal, by other people, they are perceived as crazy.


----------



## Guest

Quarter Pounder said:


> Dude, what? There was no need to get mad about it. I was saying that the phrase "you are not going crazy" is a lie for people with DPD. "You are not getting any crazier" should be the correct one. People with DPD are crazy (I'm including myself here) but not in the traditional sense of the word. It's a craziness that can only be perceived by the sufferer, but not externally and that allows him/her to live a somehow socially normal life, with work, relationships, etc. Is the exact opposite of schizos. While they feel normal, by other people, they are perceived as crazy.


well, I get it, but you play with words here.

people here are afraid that they will go mad IN THE REGULAR meaning of the word, which means they will not be able to talk, think, function, they'll end up in a mental hospital, they'll hear voices, hallucinate, have delusions, or they'll "lose it", which is not the case.

that's another thing, that yeah, you can call someone with DP "crazy" of course.

but like you said, people with DP won't get "any crazier", and that's what they mean in the first place when they say they "feel like going crazy".


----------



## Jayden

Lowrey said:


> well, I get it, but you play with words here.
> 
> people here are afraid that they will go mad IN THE REGULAR meaning of the word, which means they will not be able to talk, think, function, they'll end up in a mental hospital, they'll hear voices, hallucinate, have delusions, or they'll "lose it", which is not the case.
> 
> that's another thing, that yeah, you can call someone with DP "crazy" of course.
> 
> but like you said, people with DP won't get "any crazier", and that's what they mean in the first place when they say they "feel like going crazy".


Thank you Lowrey, that's what I was hoping to hear


----------



## Clark

Jayd said:


> I read all the time in recovery stories and information websites that "your not going crazy"
> 
> But then I read that DP/DR is also caused by psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and bi-polar.
> 
> This bothers me because I have anxiety based around my fear of schizophrenia.
> 
> So like whats the deal here? I don't really understand. I feel like im going crazy, and I hope that I'm not going down that road.


i have had dp of and on for 20 years three really bad episodes. where I was sure I was never coming back, and here I Am! i thought for sure I would devolope schiaoprhenia but didnt.


----------



## Guest

Clark said:


> i have had dp of and on for 20 years three really bad episodes. where I was sure I was never coming back, and here I Am! i thought for sure I would devolope schiaoprhenia but didnt.


right. that should be the power for anyone to recover, to realize that the scary feelings DP/anxiety or panic brings can NEVER fulfill themselves.

I believe that panic and DP/anxiety are here to tell you that you shouldn't believe your fears.


----------



## vathomson

Jayd said:


> I read all the time in recovery stories and information websites that "your not going crazy"
> 
> But then I read that DP/DR is also caused by psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia and bi-polar.
> 
> This bothers me because I have anxiety based around my fear of schizophrenia.
> 
> So like whats the deal here? I don't really understand. I feel like im going crazy, and I hope that I'm not going down that road.


I am new to this site and new to my diagnosis but l am 58 years old and have had this all my life going in and out of episodes that felt so bad that I had to fight suicidal thoughts but l remember the distant feeling, my life is a story or play that I observe. My point is , is that I raised 4 children, Held a Vet. Tech job for 15 years. I have reached 58 and I am not crazy, I look back and have no idea how I managed to function all those years but I did. I am now working with a wonderful counselor. I am not recovered by any means but l do see hope that even though I'm not sure it will ever be gone(It is really all I know) that I can be in more control and have a better quality of life.


----------



## TheGame

The truth is that DPD is a border psycotic mood state. that is it is by NO means "psychosis" it is by no means DID and it is neither something that makes you crazy. It is a cousin to Psychosis. In some diagnosis of DPD it is diagnosed as a neurosis so in one way it is just like psychosis but you are all the time aware and awake at least to the point where you know that your in a condition and that THATs not reality.


----------



## Guest

TheGame said:


> The truth is that DPD is a border psycotic mood state. that is it is by NO means "psychosis" it is by no means DID and it is neither something that makes you crazy. It is a cousin to Psychosis. In some diagnosis of DPD it is diagnosed as a neurosis so in one way it is just like psychosis but you are all the time aware and awake at least to the point where you know that your in a condition and that THATs not reality.


Oh MAN, oh MAN, this thread really gets my blood boiling.
*The Game* -- this is COMPLETELY FALSE. It is not BORDER PSYCHOTIC. NOT IN THE LEAST. Where did you get that information? It is a Dissociative Disorder, not even classified in Psychotic Disorders. And there is no such TERM as "border psychotic."

Firstly there are essentially two "types" of mental illness or brain disorders.

*1. Neurotic - insight
2. Psychotic - lack of insight during an episode, but can have insight on meds and in remission*

In one you have INSIGHT. You know what is happening to you is not real -- that is neurotic and is an old term that God help me should be replaced.
--------------------------
In psychosis you can ACTUALLY BELIEVE you are Jesus Christ, that you are being followed by demons, that the voices screaming in your head telling you to kill yourself are REAL.

"Crazy" is a layperson term. And NO ONE should be called crazy. An individual with schizoprhenia is a human being with a brain disorder and many are HIGH FUNCTIONING. Most brain disorders are on a spectrum of severity, often come with OTHER disorders, and can have varying degrees of disablity.

If one more person spells SCHIZOPHRENIA wrong I will SCREAM.

---------------------------
DP/DR are perceptual distortions we KNOW AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING. We don't BELIEVE the world is dim and flat or that our arms don't feel attached, we know this is wrong and seek HELP.

And I've said this 5,000 times and it's useless at this point as no one seems to use Google which is incomprehensible to me, or to read books I've recommended a thousand times.

Schizophrenia, Bipolar and Schizaffective Disorder are SO dramatic and develop so suddenly and are SO disabling that if you were having an episode of it you wouldn't be here typing about it, unless you were well medicated, or in remission.

I suppose ignorance is bliss. And I can't believe how RUDE people are around here.

And interesting, having this since a child, I never thought I would "go schizoprhenic" I just thought I would be trapped in a horrendous episode and I would simply kill myself ... somehow ... jump (in a dreamlike state) off a building, knowing I couldn't take the feeling anymore.
----------------------------
No illness exists in a vacuum, symptoms don't exist in a vacuum.

For goodness sake, if you have allergies you sneeze, cough, etc. But if you have a COLD you also may sneeze and cough. But there is a difference and a different way to treat each though the SYMPTOMS may be similar. A proper diagnosis is important. A cold is not "bordering on allergies" anymore than "allergies are bordering on a cold." OMG.

And there ARE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHO HAVE SCHIZOPHRENIA. Please have some courtesy. They are not crazy, skitzo <--- love that spelling, etc.

"Be kind, as everyone is going through a hard battle." Attributed to Plato and no I forgot the exact quotation.

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH









Also, if anyone has questions to ask someone who has schziophrenia you could go to this forum with tons of info. Gee, there are real human beings there, who aren't scary, who happen to have schizoprhenia. 1 in 6 Americans has a major mental illness, 1 in 4 Americans will have a mental illness at one point in his/her lifetime -- that means anxiety, depression, OCD, dementia, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

A SMALL percentage of those with severe mental illness are violent and capable of murder or self-harm. We have no system to deal with such people and they end up in jail, homeless, or the victims of violent crime themselves.

http://www.schizophrenia.com/ <----- Human beings found here.


----------



## Jayden

you know what, I am sick of fearing this fear. I'm just going to drop it, if I get schizophrenia then shit happens...fuck it. I'm sick of fearing


----------



## Guest

Jayd said:


> you know what, I am sick of fearing this fear. I'm just going to drop it, if I get schizophrenia then shit happens...fuck it. I'm sick of fearing


just maintain this mindset you'll be out. just degrade this whole thing into a body sensation, and it'll be ok.


----------



## TheGame

Dreamer* said:


> Oh MAN, oh MAN, this thread really gets my blood boiling.
> *The Game* -- this is COMPLETELY FALSE. It is not BORDER PSYCHOTIC. NOT IN THE LEAST. Where did you get that information? It is a Dissociative Disorder, not even classified in Psychotic Disorders. And there is no such TERM as "border psychotic."
> 
> Firstly there are essentially two "types" of mental illness or brain disorders.
> 
> *1. Neurotic - insight
> 2. Psychotic - lack of insight during an episode, but can have insight on meds and in remission*
> 
> In one you have INSIGHT. You know what is happening to you is not real -- that is neurotic and is an old term that God help me should be replaced.
> --------------------------
> In psychosis you can ACTUALLY BELIEVE you are Jesus Christ, that you are being followed by demons, that the voices screaming in your head telling you to kill yourself are REAL.
> 
> "Crazy" is a layperson term. And NO ONE should be called crazy. An individual with schizoprhenia is a human being with a brain disorder and many are HIGH FUNCTIONING. Most brain disorders are on a spectrum of severity, often come with OTHER disorders, and can have varying degrees of disablity.
> 
> If one more person spells SCHIZOPHRENIA wrong I will SCREAM.
> 
> ---------------------------
> DP/DR are perceptual distortions we KNOW AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING. We don't BELIEVE the world is dim and flat or that our arms don't feel attached, we know this is wrong and seek HELP.
> 
> And I've said this 5,000 times and it's useless at this point as no one seems to use Google which is incomprehensible to me, or to read books I've recommended a thousand times.
> 
> Schizophrenia, Bipolar and Schizaffective Disorder are SO dramatic and develop so suddenly and are SO disabling that if you were having an episode of it you wouldn't be here typing about it, unless you were well medicated, or in remission.
> 
> I suppose ignorance is bliss. And I can't believe how RUDE people are around here.
> 
> And interesting, having this since a child, I never thought I would "go schizoprhenic" I just thought I would be trapped in a horrendous episode and I would simply kill myself ... somehow ... jump (in a dreamlike state) off a building, knowing I couldn't take the feeling anymore.
> ----------------------------
> No illness exists in a vacuum, symptoms don't exist in a vacuum.
> 
> For goodness sake, if you have allergies you sneeze, cough, etc. But if you have a COLD you also may sneeze and cough. But there is a difference and a different way to treat each though the SYMPTOMS may be similar. A proper diagnosis is important. A cold is not "bordering on allergies" anymore than "allergies are bordering on a cold." OMG.
> 
> And there ARE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHO HAVE SCHIZOPHRENIA. Please have some courtesy. They are not crazy, skitzo <--- love that spelling, etc.
> 
> "Be kind, as everyone is going through a hard battle." Attributed to Plato and no I forgot the exact quotation.
> 
> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, if anyone has questions to ask someone who has schziophrenia you could go to this forum with tons of info. Gee, there are real human beings there, who aren't scary, who happen to have schizoprhenia. 1 in 6 Americans has a major mental illness, 1 in 4 Americans will have a mental illness at one point in his/her lifetime -- that means anxiety, depression, OCD, dementia, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.
> 
> A SMALL percentage of those with severe mental illness are violent and capable of murder or self-harm. We have no system to deal with such people and they end up in jail, homeless, or the victims of violent crime themselves.
> 
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/ <----- Human beings found here.


Missinterpretation again...i love it. just read trough this and then read my post again and learn that i do not insue that DP/DR is psychosis..cause its not...and i KNOW that..read again


----------



## Guest

I did read it again, and have highlighted in red what is incorrect and misleading:



TheGame said:


> The truth is that DPD is a border psycotic mood state. that is it is by NO means "psychosis" it is by no means DID and it is neither something that makes you crazy. It is a cousin to Psychosis. In some diagnosis of DPD it is diagnosed as a neurosis so in one way it is just like psychosis but you are all the time aware and awake at least to the point where you know that your in a condition and that THATs not reality.


You are making incorrect statements mixed in with correct ones, but this is very confusing and incorrect.

1. There is no such psychiatric term as "border psychotic mood state" <---- this has no meaning

2. DP/DR are in no way "cousins" to psychosis -- and because they are "neurotic" there can be no connection to "psychosis" in that sense -- can't be "cousins". They are perceptual disorders and are categorized under dissociative disorders which will still not change in the DSM-5. The only thing changing in the DSM-5 is that DPD will be acknowledged as a PRIMARY disorder, a stand-alone disorder (when chronic/unremitting) as well as a symptom that can be secondary to things like panic, epilepsy, migraine, and other psychiatric disorders.

I will post the difference from the Merck Manual, more up to date from the DSM.

What the bulk of us here on the board have is anxiety and dissociation. Not related at ALL to any psychotic state, EVER.

DP/DR CAN be comorbid with many other psychiatric disorders, but that does not mean the DP/DR itself is anything you claim it to be above. Also, DID, is not considered psychotic either, or "border psychotic" -- it may actually be part of borderline personality as the result of VERY severe abuse and is quite rare.


----------



## Guest

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec15/ch197/ch197a.html

Dissociative Disorders Defined:

1. Dissociative Amnesia
2. Dissociative Fugue
3. Depersonalization/Derealization
4. Dissociative Identity Disorder
5. Dissociative Disorder (NOS) Not otherwise specified

"Everyone occasionally experiences a failure in the normal automatic integration of memories, perceptions, identity, and consciousness. For example, people may drive somewhere and then realize that they do not remember many aspects of the drive because they are preoccupied with personal concerns, a program on the radio, or conversation with a passenger. Typically, such a failure, referred to as nonpathologic dissociation, does not disrupt everyday activities.

People with a dissociative disorder may totally forget a series of normal behaviors occupying minutes or hours and may sense missing a period of time in their experience. Dissociation thus disrupts the continuity of self and the recollection of life events. People may experience the following:

*Poorly integrated memory (dissociative amnesia)
Fragmentation of identity and memory (dissociative fugue or dissociative identity disorder)
Disruption of experience and self-perception (depersonalization disorder)*

Dissociative disorders are usually attributed to overwhelming stress. Such stress may be generated by traumatic events or by intolerable inner conflict.
----------------------------------------

http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec15/ch202/ch202a.html

Pschotic Disorders Defined:
Schizophrenia and related disorders-brief psychotic disorder, delusional disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and schizophreniform disorder-are characterized by psychotic symptoms. Psychotic symptoms include delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking and speech, and bizarre and inappropriate behavior.

_[My input here. People read this and think this describes them. I KNOW individuals with schizoprhenia. NONE of them knows what DP/DR is! Others whom I've read about it HAVE experienced DP/DR and it is horrible for them.
1. Delusions - believe that people are plotting against you, the FBI is watching you, your neighbor is a demon

2. Hallucinations - you HEAR screaming in your head that tells you to kill yourself, kill The Pope, harm yourself, you may SEE demons, someone might look like a beast and you need to defend yourself against "it" when it is a friend. You may look in a forest and literally think the trees are LOOKING AT YOU, you see eyes and faces that aren't there. I know one woman who thought she was being sucked down her bathtub drain and had to be taken to the hospital as she was so terrified by this. She later said, "What a stupid thing! But I believed it!"

You see everything in a different color. I have heard someone with schizoprhenia ask, "Hey, is everything pink right now?" And others in the room gently say, no. And she says "Damn, I need to adjust my medication."

3. Disorganized thinking or speech -- too complicated, but speaking might be "Satan is coming soon, soon, soon the moon. The moon is in my head, my eyes. Do you understand me? We have to prepare!" Or the person is so confused he/she doesn't understand much of what is going on, where his/her house is, etc.

4. Bizarre/inappropriate behavior -- well simplest example is the person talking to him/herself on the street. Refusing shelter, thinking they are being poisoned when offered some perfectly fine food. Taking their clothes off in public. Extreme violence, etc.

And when these things are happening to you, the are REAL TO YOU. You believe they are happening. And you actually hear and see things. LITERALLY. But horrible, frightening things.]_

Schizophrenia Defined:

Schizophrenia is characterized by psychosis (loss of contact with reality), hallucinations (false perceptions), delusions (false beliefs), disorganized speech and behavior, flattened affect (restricted range of emotions), cognitive deficits (impaired reasoning and problem solving), and occupational and social dysfunction. The cause is unknown, but evidence for a genetic component is strong. Symptoms usually begin in adolescence or early adulthood. One or more episodes of symptoms must last ≥ 6 mo before the diagnosis is made. Treatment consists of drug therapy, psychotherapy, and rehabilitation.


----------



## Guest

Dreamer, it amazes me how you bow your head in front of some psychiatrists who decided that "this is scizophrenia, and this is borderline, and this is that, and there is term X but there is no term Y".

The mind, and the living body is much, much more mysterious and complex than most scientist or psychiatrist could understand (or admit they can). There's a reason that they can't cure a freakin anxiety, let alone scizophrenia. While other times, a stupid "magic healer" comes and cures panic disorder just by making the person remember a childhood event.

The term "borderline personality disorder" is a great proof on how they are not really having a clue about these things. All they do is creating names for a group of symptoms.


----------



## TheGame

Dreamer* said:


> http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec15/ch197/ch197a.html
> 
> Dissociative Disorders Defined:
> 
> 1. Dissociative Amnesia
> 2. Dissociative Fugue
> 3. Depersonalization/Derealization
> 4. Dissociative Identity Disorder
> 5. Dissociative Disorder (NOS) Not otherwise specified
> 
> "Everyone occasionally experiences a failure in the normal automatic integration of memories, perceptions, identity, and consciousness. For example, people may drive somewhere and then realize that they do not remember many aspects of the drive because they are preoccupied with personal concerns, a program on the radio, or conversation with a passenger. Typically, such a failure, referred to as nonpathologic dissociation, does not disrupt everyday activities.
> 
> People with a dissociative disorder may totally forget a series of normal behaviors occupying minutes or hours and may sense missing a period of time in their experience. Dissociation thus disrupts the continuity of self and the recollection of life events. People may experience the following:
> 
> *Poorly integrated memory (dissociative amnesia)
> Fragmentation of identity and memory (dissociative fugue or dissociative identity disorder)
> Disruption of experience and self-perception (depersonalization disorder)*
> 
> Dissociative disorders are usually attributed to overwhelming stress. Such stress may be generated by traumatic events or by intolerable inner conflict.
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> http://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/sec15/ch202/ch202a.html
> 
> Pschotic Disorders Defined:
> Schizophrenia and related disorders-brief psychotic disorder, delusional disorder, schizoaffective disorder, and schizophreniform disorder-are characterized by psychotic symptoms. Psychotic symptoms include delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking and speech, and bizarre and inappropriate behavior.
> 
> _[My input here. People read this and think this describes them. I KNOW individuals with schizoprhenia. NONE of them knows what DP/DR is! Others whom I've read about it HAVE experienced DP/DR and it is horrible for them.
> 1. Delusions - believe that people are plotting against you, the FBI is watching you, your neighbor is a demon
> 
> 2. Hallucinations - you HEAR screaming in your head that tells you to kill yourself, kill The Pope, harm yourself, you may SEE demons, someone might look like a beast and you need to defend yourself against "it" when it is a friend. You may look in a forest and literally think the trees are LOOKING AT YOU, you see eyes and faces that aren't there. I know one woman who thought she was being sucked down her bathtub drain and had to be taken to the hospital as she was so terrified by this. She later said, "What a stupid thing! But I believed it!"
> 
> You see everything in a different color. I have heard someone with schizoprhenia ask, "Hey, is everything pink right now?" And others in the room gently say, no. And she says "Damn, I need to adjust my medication."
> 
> 3. Disorganized thinking or speech -- too complicated, but speaking might be "Satan is coming soon, soon, soon the moon. The moon is in my head, my eyes. Do you understand me? We have to prepare!" Or the person is so confused he/she doesn't understand much of what is going on, where his/her house is, etc.
> 
> 4. Bizarre/inappropriate behavior -- well simplest example is the person talking to him/herself on the street. Refusing shelter, thinking they are being poisoned when offered some perfectly fine food. Taking their clothes off in public. Extreme violence, etc.
> 
> And when these things are happening to you, the are REAL TO YOU. You believe they are happening. And you actually hear and see things. LITERALLY. But horrible, frightening things.]_
> 
> Schizophrenia Defined:
> 
> Schizophrenia is characterized by psychosis (loss of contact with reality), hallucinations (false perceptions), delusions (false beliefs), disorganized speech and behavior, flattened affect (restricted range of emotions), cognitive deficits (impaired reasoning and problem solving), and occupational and social dysfunction. The cause is unknown, but evidence for a genetic component is strong. Symptoms usually begin in adolescence or early adulthood. One or more episodes of symptoms must last ≥ 6 mo before the diagnosis is made. Treatment consists of drug therapy, psychotherapy, and rehabilitation.


All i am saying is that the loss of insight associated with DP/DR must somehow be related to a psychotic state of mind. I am again not saying that this is psychosis just that it must have a relation to psychotic tendencies as there are reported cases of people with DP/DR that has gone over the edge into psychosis. That tells me that DP/DR is borderline psychosis. Doesnt that make sence? I know you are all affraid of going nuts but lets face it, thats pretty rare and above all else OFCOURSE it is a dissociative disorder and it IS indeed related to stressors that are ocurring in your mind and body. i dont reject that AT ALL. since it is a fact.

Just humor me here. 
There must be a grey area between psychosis and DP/DR...how much closer to insanity can you come? How much closer to the edge could you possibly be than what you are? im again not postulating that any of you will cross that edge and go into psychosis im just entertaining the thought that we might be closer to psychosis than we think.

That will aggrevate some peoples fear of going crazy but COME ON! nothing has happened so far and you are getting better arent you? (even if you have felt like its been getting worse your NOT going to go psychotic just to get that covered here aswell).

this CANT be too crazy am i right?


----------



## Guest

Lowrey said:


> Dreamer, it amazes me how you bow your head in front of some psychiatrists who decided that "this is scizophrenia, and this is borderline, and this is that, and there is term X but there is no term Y".
> 
> The mind, and the living body is much, much more mysterious and complex than most scientist or psychiatrist could understand (or admit they can). There's a reason that they can't cure a freakin anxiety, let alone scizophrenia. While other times, a stupid "magic healer" comes and cures panic disorder just by making the person remember a childhood event.
> 
> The term "borderline personality disorder" is a great proof on how they are not really having a clue about these things. All they do is creating names for a group of symptoms.


Well, that is your perception. What you forget is that I have been a mental health advocate for about 25 years. I have come in contact with MANY mentally ill people PERSONALLY and interact with them. I have attended conventions, I have read extensively on the subject. I am fascinated by neuroscience.

They can't cure AIDS, they can't cure diabetes, they can't cure arthritis, they can't cure epilepsy. The most complex organ in the body is the brain. The research declared "The Decade of the Brain" was in 1990-2000. Much research is dependent upon the research that comes before, and that is very important in medicine and in anthropology and theological research as well.

The completion of the Genome project changed the understanding of mental illness ... before its existence there was a greater tendency in the '50s, '60s, '70s in particular to attribute schizophrenia to "the schizophrenogenic mother" sp? That is it was believed by psychoanalysts and others that poor upbringing by a cold mother caused schizoprhenia. We now have machines that WERE NOT INVENTED that show the brains of such individuals are very different from those of control groups.

Also, I was born 52 years ago.

Here is the technology I have experienced over the years.
Dial telephone in our house. No cell phones existed. I used a typewriter in college and did not have a computer until 1990 -- used wordprocessors at work in the LATE 1980s. My friend had an Apple in 1986? that cost a fortune and didn't do too much. "Video game" I played -- Space Invaders at an arcade. First year on the internet (partly due to cost initially and connection) 1999. The first microwave I saw was a gift my father and I got for my mother when I was around ten. It was about the size of 3 microwaves. We were one of the few homes in the neighborhood to have them. Hah, had to add, I started out with 33 1/3 RPM records for music. Then cassette tapes were big. THEN the damned CD came along. There was no videotaping of TV. There was no CABLE. THINGS CHANGE. WE LEARN EACH AND EVERYDAY. New advances in all things take time, but are happening as I write here.

There is progress in EVERY field. I grew up seeing the Apollo missions, the first man on the moon. Now the Space Shuttle program which has shut down. The Concorde which is also retired.

There is no cure for cancer. Do you understand that it takes CENTURIES for different fields to evolve. Medicine is so young. My father was a thoracic surgeon. When he worked in the 40s, 50s, 60s (much older when I was born) -- survival from heart disease and lung cancer was extremely poor. Treatment was extremely limited.

And I could, but I won't say, "Why do you bow down to the anti-psychiatry movement, or why are more likely to look to the unconscious?" I would never say "bow down" to anyone. It is a belief system that does NOT correspond to mine, but does everyone agree with you? No. Not everyone here agrees with me. I am providing current research, links to reliable sources. I am sharing the knowledge I have acquired over a long period of time.

*Do you know someone with schizoprhenia? Have you spoken to ANYONE with schizoprhenia. I have two family members who have it. I have gone to regular group meetings with many such people. Have you? Have you heard them talk of their experiences first hand? THAT I think is my most important source of understanding.*

But, unlike you, I try to respect other peoples' POV. I try to learn from other POVs' And each and every day there are new developments in technology and more. And I don't call people "d-ck heads if I disagree with them. And no I don't recall who said that.

*Try typing a 30 page Master's Thesis on a typewriter, LOL. Try talking with someone who has schizophrenia.*


----------



## Guest

TheGame said:


> All i am saying is that the loss of insight associated with DP/DR must somehow be related to a psychotic state of mind. I am again not saying that this is psychosis just that it must have a relation to psychotic tendencies as there are reported cases of people with DP/DR that has gone over the edge into psychosis. That tells me that DP/DR is borderline psychosis. Doesnt that make sence? I know you are all affraid of going nuts but lets face it, thats pretty rare and above all else OFCOURSE it is a dissociative disorder and it IS indeed related to stressors that are ocurring in your mind and body. i dont reject that AT ALL. since it is a fact.
> 
> Just humor me here.
> There must be a grey area between psychosis and DP/DR...how much closer to insanity can you come? How much closer to the edge could you possibly be than what you are? im again not postulating that any of you will cross that edge and go into psychosis im just entertaining the thought that we might be closer to psychosis than we think.
> 
> That will aggrevate some peoples fear of going crazy but COME ON! nothing has happened so far and you are getting better arent you? (even if you have felt like its been getting worse your NOT going to go psychotic just to get that covered here aswell).
> 
> this CANT be too crazy am i right?


I am not afraid of falling into psychosis. And again you are not informed. *Someone with DP/DR does NOT LOSE INSIGHT.* I don't think you understand the term. There are NO reported cases of DPD individuals falling into psychosis -- read Dr. Sierra's book, read any number of books, medical articles out there, or show me a viable article and I will review it, but I would say it is extraordinarily rare -- I have never heard of it. The closest thing would be in some other illnesses DP/DR might briefly appear before or during the full blown onset of some other disorder.

There is NO grey area between psychosis and neurosis - mental illness occurs on a spectrum, yes, and for instance there are cases were extremely severe OCD can take on psychotic features, so can post-partum depression, psychotic depression. You didn't read my descriptions at all.

I am 52 years old, and if you read my other posts you will see, *I know individuals with schizoprhenia.* I have never received any other diagnoses other that clinical depression, several anxiety disorders and DPD -- I was first diagnosed in 1975 at the age of 15 by an M.D. psychiatrist. My fears of becoming so DPD I couldn't function were more in my youth and up to age 28 or so. Since then, I am not afraid. And you will note there are others here, and I know others who have had DP their whole lives. Some have responded to meds, some to therapy, others none at all.

I have gotten better, but I am not cured. But I live with this. I educate other people about it and about other illnesses. I am not alone.

Talk with someone with schizophrenia -- learn from him/her as I have.


----------



## TheGame

Dreamer* said:


> I am not afraid of falling into psychosis. And again you are not informed. *Someone with DP/DR does NOT LOSE INSIGHT.* I don't think you understand the term. There are NO reported cases of DPD individuals falling into psychosis -- read Dr. Sierra's book, read any number of books, medical articles out there, or show me a viable article and I will review it, but I would say it is extraordinarily rare -- I have never heard of it. The closest thing would be in some other illnesses DP/DR might briefly appear before or during the full blown onset of some other disorder.
> 
> There is NO grey area between psychosis and neurosis - mental illness occurs on a spectrum, yes, and for instance there are cases were extremely severe OCD can take on psychotic features, so can post-partum depression, psychotic depression. You didn't read my descriptions at all.
> 
> I am 52 years old, and if you read my other posts you will see, *I know individuals with schizoprhenia.* I have never received any other diagnoses other that clinical depression, several anxiety disorders and DPD -- I was first diagnosed in 1975 at the age of 15 by an M.D. psychiatrist. My fears of becoming so DPD I couldn't function were more in my youth and up to age 28 or so. Since then, I am not afraid. And you will note there are others here, and I know others who have had DP their whole lives. Some have responded to meds, some to therapy, others none at all.
> 
> I have gotten better, but I am not cured. But I live with this. I educate other people about it and about other illnesses. I am not alone.
> 
> Talk with someone with schizophrenia -- learn from him/her as I have.


Answer me!


----------



## Guest

Last comment, which I learned as a teenager. I always believed that one was BORN gay. One of my best friends was gay -- she always thought she was gay since childhood. But homosexuality was originally considered a mental illness in the DSM. IT HAS BEEN REMOVED, I think since the DSM-III. (The first DSM came out in 1954 I believe and was something else -- so terribly full of crap. Schizoprhenia was called dementia praecox if I'm not mistaken, but the general diagnosis was pretty accurate in its description.)

Give me information, knowledge, and I will examine it and come to a conclusion which I could change tomorrow.

Also, the first real research into DP occurred in the late 1800s. That isn't that long ago.


----------



## Guest

TheGame said:


> Answer me!


What have I not answered?

Ask me a question. I just wrote a ton of stuff. I need to get off of this machine and work on something else!


----------



## Guest

One thing I know, if one can suffer from DP/DR for decades and STILL not going "crazy", that means we all should leave this forum ,live life and treat DP like an aching leg.


----------



## Guest

Lowrey said:


> One thing I know, if one can suffer from DP/DR for decades and STILL not going "crazy", that means we all should leave this forum ,live life and treat DP like an aching leg.


I found my goal in life that gave me the most satisfaction was to help others with this by "coming out of the closet." I have no regrets. It was my choice. DO you know how many therapists go into psychology/psychiatry because they have a mental illness? And some shouldn't be practicing.

What one chooses to do with one's life is no one else's business unless it is hurting you.

No one is keeping ANYONE on this forum.

You judge and judge and judge others. Why are you here then?


----------



## Visual

Lowrey said:


> Dreamer, it amazes me how you bow your head in front of some psychiatrists who decided that "this is scizophrenia, and this is borderline, and this is that, and there is term X but there is no term Y".
> 
> The mind, and the living body is much, much more mysterious and complex than most scientist or psychiatrist could understand (or admit they can). There's a reason that they can't cure a freakin anxiety, let alone scizophrenia. While other times, a stupid "magic healer" comes and cures panic disorder just by making the person remember a childhood event.
> 
> The term "borderline personality disorder" is a great proof on how they are not really having a clue about these things. All they do is creating names for a group of symptoms.


Since "Depersonalization Disorder" is a term created by these scientists - then we should use it according to their definition. It isn't an act of worship, it is showing respect towards others (whether we agree or not).

If you wish to coin a word/phrase to describe your own observations, that is fine.

But to communicate effectively, one must use the language of others. Otherwise it spreads confusion.

Being unable to cure a disease doesn't invalidate attempts to categorize it to build further understanding.


----------



## Guest

Visual said:


> Since "Depersonalization Disorder" is a term created by these scientists - then we should use it according to their definition. It isn't an act of worship, it is showing respect towards others (whether we agree or not).
> 
> If you wish to coin a word/phrase to describe your own observations, that is fine.
> 
> But to communicate effectively, one must use the language of others. Otherwise it spreads confusion.
> 
> Being unable to cure a disease doesn't invalidate attempts to categorize it to build further understanding.


Thanks Visual,
Yes, we have to have a common language or we wouldn't be able to communicate.

*But the irony here is the term "depersonalization" was not coined by the researcher who wrote the first known article on it. A man who suffered life long from it named it.*

The word was written in a book by a man named Amiel who had DP his whole life -- he called it "Journale Intime" (His private journal). The only way HE could describe himself was "depersonalized." Ludovic Dugas who was researching deja-vu, jamais-vu, and other states of perceptual distortion started trying to understand the phenomenon of "not feeling real", etc. In the first article "A Case of Depersonalization" he borrowed the term from Amiel's book. So a DPer actually coined the word, the French were researching it at the end of the 1800s.

And think of medicine in general. In and Emergency Room, think of what lingo doctors have to learn to speak STAT, what procedures they must follow. *And for example a MAJOR change has occurred in CPR. If you have ever trained in it you should be retrained. For years there was emphasis on alternating between X numbers of compressions to the heart/chest, followed by a breath. They have now found there is enough O2 in the blood when a person collapses and that pushing on the heart/chest IS MORE IMPORTANT, should be done longer and faster. The irony is the beat of pushing is to The Bee Gees "Stayin' Alive" .... I kid you not.*


----------



## Guest

You can read about this in "Feeling Unreal", "Depersonalization: A New Look At A Neglected Syndrome" and many research papers.

This man had DP his entire life and wrote about it in his diary. He coined the term of his suffering as "depersonalization." Or Dugas took that word to apply it to "feeling unreal" in his own patients.
*[Henri Frédéric Amiel (28 September 1821 - 11 May 1881) was a Swiss philosopher, poet and critic.

Born in Geneva in 1821, he was descended from a Huguenot family driven to Switzerland by the revocation of the Edict of Nantes.[1]

After losing his parents at an early age, Amiel travelled widely, became intimate with the intellectual leaders of Europe, and made a special study of German philosophy in Berlin. In 1849 he was appointed professor of aesthetics at the academy of Geneva, and in 1854 became professor of moral philosophy. These appointments, conferred by the democratic party, deprived him of the support of the aristocratic party, which comprised nearly all the culture of the city.

This isolation inspired the one book by which Amiel is still known, the Journal Intime ("Private Journal"), which, published after his death, obtained a European reputation. It was translated into English by Mary A. Ward at the instigation of Mark Pattison.

Although second-rate as regards productive power, Amiel's mind was of no inferior quality, and his Journal gained a sympathy that the author had failed to obtain in his life. In addition to the Journal, he produced several volumes of poetry and wrote studies on Erasmus, Madame de Stael and other writers. He died in Geneva.]
*
Ludovic Dugas was a French psychologist/philosopher researching altered states of consciousness and came upon this book. He decided to NAME the condition WE have as did Amiel what Amiel called it.

_*"And now I find myself regarding existence as beyond the tomb, from another world. All is strange to me; I am, as it were, outside my own body and individuality; I am depersonalized, detached, cut adrift. Is this madness?" -- Henri Amiel
*_

EDIT: First official article on DP as far as anyone knows.
Dugas L (1898) 
Un cas de depersonalization. 
Revue Philosophique 45:500-506.


----------



## Guest

So, when doing CPR, the rules changed I think in the past 3 years?
Go back to the Red Cross and relearn!








And do the 100 compressions to this song, LITERALLY, I am not lying.
But before you begin, point to one person and say -- "You call 9-1-1" and should then shout, "Is there someone trained in CPR?" and/or point to that other person to take over for you as you will get tired, tell them to stay with you while one other is assigned to get help, then start CPR.

Save a life!
All You Need is Love!


----------



## Guest

Found a very interesting PubMed article and am deciding I may go back to school, I am too fascinated by the mind. The question is ... $$$$$. GAH.

*Anyway ... if you have a first degree relative with schizophrenia you are LESS LIKELY to experience DP. Now, someone figure that one out! Someone also pointed out, and I had to research it, individuals born blind do not develop schizophrenia. WHY? And this horrible experience of DP/DR is NOT psychotic.*

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20197707

*Psychopathology. 2010;43(3):141-9. Epub 2010 Feb 27.*
*Depersonalization in patients with schizophrenia spectrum disorders, first-degree relatives and normal controls.*
Gonzalez-Torres MA, Inchausti L, Aristegui M, Ibañez B, Diez L, Fernandez-Rivas A, Bustamante S, Haidar K, Rodríguez-Zabaleta M, Mingo A.
Source

Department of Neuroscience, Basque Country University, Leioa, Spain. [email protected]
Abstract

*BACKGROUND:*
Depersonalization occurs in healthy individuals and across a broad range of psychiatric patients. Data on depersonalization in persons linked to patients through genetics, environment or education are scarce. *Due to their higher risk of developing psychosis, first-degree healthy relatives might show differences with the general population. This study examines depersonalization in patients with schizophrenia or schizophrenia spectrum disorders, their first-degree healthy relatives and normal controls.*

*METHODS:*
The Cambridge Depersonalization Scale was used to measure depersonalization in a sample of 147 clinically stable patients with schizophrenia or schizophrenia spectrum disorders, 73 first-degree relatives with no psychiatric history and 172 healthy controls. Mixed effect models were used to account for both the familial structure of the data and the effect of sociodemographic characteristics.
RESULTS:

Patients obtained higher scores than relatives and controls for frequency and duration of depersonalization experiences, number of items responded positively and total depersonalization, while first-degree relatives obtained lower scores than patients and controls for all these characteristics.

*CONCLUSIONS:*
*First-degree relatives of patients reported fewer episodes of depersonalization, which were less intense and of shorter duration, than healthy controls. This finding might be related to a protection mechanism that keeps first-degree relatives away from near-psychotic experiences. The nature of such a mechanism remains to be discovered.*

*2010 S. Karger AG, Basel.

PMID:
20197707
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] *


----------



## Guest

Dreamer* said:


> I found my goal in life that gave me the most satisfaction was to help others with this by "coming out of the closet." I have no regrets. It was my choice. DO you know how many therapists go into psychology/psychiatry because they have a mental illness? And some shouldn't be practicing.
> 
> What one chooses to do with one's life is no one else's business unless it is hurting you.
> 
> No one is keeping ANYONE on this forum.
> 
> You judge and judge and judge others. Why are you here then?


because you're entertaining me.


----------



## TheGame

People suffer from DPD from a variety of reasons. And im one of the people who suffer from it trough burnout and dissociation. And i can tell you that there IS a legitimate risk for people with DPD to actually become psychotic the two are far apart but to go so far as to say that a person within a neurosis has "insight" is really to bend and stretch the truth. Sure us with neurosis have insight around that we are in a neurosis and nothing else. But insight goes deeper. Insight into how to live properly and to not stress out and have anxious attacks every 15 äminutes over trivial stuff doesnt ring in my ears as insightful.

Please dont try to write of DPD as harmless because DPD and drugs will fucking overstimulate your brain until you break it. another example that to much stimuli can actually lead to really big trouble.

And you are not one of the people that would defend drugs to the point where you say that no reported case of psychosis due to drugs has been reported?

and dont misunderstand you CAN enter a psychotic state of mind from beeing burnt out and you end up in a neurosis. from there its absolutely possible to be furtherly burnt out if you dont take the hint and voila psychosis...


----------



## Guest

.........


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> In psychosis you can ACTUALLY BELIEVE you are Jesus Christ, that you are being followed by demons, that the voices screaming in your head telling you to kill yourself are REAL.
> 
> "Crazy" is a layperson term. And NO ONE should be called crazy. An individual with schizoprhenia is a human being with a brain disorder and many are HIGH FUNCTIONING. Most brain disorders are on a spectrum of severity, often come with OTHER disorders, and can have varying degrees of disablity.
> 
> If one more person spells SCHIZOPHRENIA wrong I will SCREAM.
> 
> ---------------------------
> DP/DR are perceptual distortions we KNOW AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING. We don't BELIEVE the world is dim and flat or that our arms don't feel attached, we know this is wrong and seek HELP.
> 
> And I've said this 5,000 times and it's useless at this point as no one seems to use Google which is incomprehensible to me, or to read books I've recommended a thousand times.
> 
> Schizophrenia, Bipolar and Schizaffective Disorder are SO dramatic and develop so suddenly and are SO disabling that if you were having an episode of it you wouldn't be here typing about it, unless you were well medicated, or in remission.
> 
> I suppose ignorance is bliss. And I can't believe how RUDE people are around here.
> 
> And interesting, having this since a child, I never thought I would "go schizoprhenic" I just thought I would be trapped in a horrendous episode and I would simply kill myself ... somehow ... jump (in a dreamlike state) off a building, knowing I couldn't take the feeling anymore.
> ----------------------------
> 
> And there ARE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WHO HAVE SCHIZOPHRENIA. Please have some courtesy. They are not crazy, skitzo <--- love that spelling, etc.
> 
> "Be kind, as everyone is going through a hard battle." Attributed to Plato and no I forgot the exact quotation.
> 
> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A SMALL percentage of those with severe mental illness are violent and capable of murder or self-harm. We have no system to deal with such people and they end up in jail, homeless, or the victims of violent crime themselves.
> 
> http://www.schizophrenia.com/ <----- Human beings found here.


Hey Dreamer, thank you so much for this post. 
I am so sick of seeing people saying 'omg I'm going schizo, i'm going crazy!' As you say, there are people on here with psychosis/ schizophrenia, including me. I feel like saying 'well just be glad you don't and stop worrying'. At the height of one of my psychotic breaks, I cut open both my inner arms with razor blades looking for 'implants', I believed everyone around me were Demons and were going to kill me. That is psychosis, it's horrible, it's nowhere near DPD. Since my teenage years, I've had episodes of believing people I knew had been replaced, I've had some pretty crazy delusions that I've acted upon with dangerous consequences. I had no idea I was ill at these times, I totally believed it all. That's the difference between psychosis and DP. 

I will say though, that for me, having DP since childhood, did wear me down, and I'm convinced it weakened my brain and contributed to my breakdown. But psychosis and DP are nowhere near related.

I can see where Lowrey is coming from, in that there are long term effects on the brain from having long term DP. I admire anyone who doesn't completely lose their sanity (not the same as psychosis).


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> because you're entertaining me.


What's that supposed to mean?


----------



## TheGame

violetgirl said:


> Hey Dreamer, thank you so much for this post.
> I am so sick of seeing people saying 'omg I'm going schizo, i'm going crazy!' As you say, there are people on here with psychosis/ schizophrenia, including me. I feel like saying 'well just be glad you don't and stop worrying'. At the height of one of my psychotic breaks, I cut open both my inner arms with razor blades looking for 'implants', I believed everyone around me were Demons and were going to kill me. That is psychosis, it's horrible, it's nowhere near DPD. Since my teenage years, I've had episodes of believing people I knew had been replaced, I've had some pretty crazy delusions that I've acted upon with dangerous consequences. I had no idea I was ill at these times, I totally believed it all. That's the difference between psychosis and DP.
> 
> I will say though, that for me, having DP since childhood, did wear me down, and I'm convinced it weakened my brain and contributed to my breakdown. But psychosis and DP are nowhere near related.
> 
> I can see where Lowrey is coming from, in that there are long term effects on the brain from having long term DP. I admire anyone who doesn't completely lose their sanity (not the same as psychosis).


and thats not what im saying either...im just saying that there are different levels of crazy and DPD sure is a whole lot more crazy than having alittle bit of a confidence issue..


----------



## violetgirl

TheGame said:


> and thats not what im saying either...im just saying that there are different levels of crazy and DPD sure is a whole lot more crazy than having alittle bit of a confidence issue..





> and dont misunderstand you CAN enter a psychotic state of mind from beeing burnt out and you end up in a neurosis. from there its absolutely possible to be furtherly burnt out if you dont take the hint and voila psychosis...


what do you mean by that?
do you mean that DPD can give you some sort of burnout?

yeah you do lost insight with DPD, I agree. 
I couldn't feel pain normally or empathy, two really really important tools for survival and quality of life. only when i recovered I realised what I was missing. like 2 pretty big parts of my brain, not working.


----------



## Jayden

TheGame said:


> People suffer from DPD from a variety of reasons. And im one of the people who suffer from it trough burnout and dissociation. And i can tell you that there IS a legitimate risk for people with DPD to actually become psychotic the two are far apart but to go so far as to say that a person within a neurosis has "insight" is really to bend and stretch the truth. Sure us with neurosis have insight around that we are in a neurosis and nothing else. But insight goes deeper. Insight into how to live properly and to not stress out and have anxious attacks every 15 äminutes over trivial stuff doesnt ring in my ears as insightful.
> 
> Please dont try to write of DPD as harmless because DPD and drugs will fucking overstimulate your brain until you break it. another example that to much stimuli can actually lead to really big trouble.
> 
> And you are not one of the people that would defend drugs to the point where you say that no reported case of psychosis due to drugs has been reported?
> 
> and dont misunderstand you CAN enter a psychotic state of mind from beeing burnt out and you end up in a neurosis. from there its absolutely possible to be furtherly burnt out if you dont take the hint and voila psychosis...


Not gonna lie, I was just starting to feel good today and reading this ruined it. Yes, living with DP causes bad anxiety for me....so does that mean if I feel burnt out from this I am going to just snap one day and become psychotic?


----------



## Jayden

Dreamer can you give us your output please.

Is my DP, anxiety, and fear of schizophrenia just going to cause me to burn out to the point where I just become psychotic like the Game said?

I can understand how my brain is probably over tired.

Whatever happens, happens I guess.


----------



## Guest

*I wasn't going to respond to TheGame, but the bulk of this either makes no sense or again is completely incorrect. But it is scaring people.*



TheGame said:


> People suffer from DPD from a variety of reasons. And im one of the people who suffer from it trough burnout and dissociation. And i can tell you that there IS a legitimate risk for people with DPD to actually become psychotic the two are far apart but to go so far as to say that a person within a neurosis has "insight" is really to bend and stretch the truth. Sure us with neurosis have insight around that we are in a neurosis and nothing else. But insight goes deeper. Insight into how to live properly and to not stress out and have anxious attacks every 15 äminutes over trivial stuff doesnt ring in my ears as insightful.
> 
> Please dont try to write of DPD as harmless because DPD and drugs will fucking overstimulate your brain until you break it. another example that to much stimuli can actually lead to really big trouble.
> 
> And you are not one of the people that would defend drugs to the point where you say that no reported case of psychosis due to drugs has been reported?
> 
> and dont misunderstand you CAN enter a psychotic state of mind from beeing burnt out and you end up in a neurosis. from there its absolutely possible to be furtherly burnt out if you dont take the hint and voila psychosis...


1. What it means to LOSE INSIGHT. All it means IN PSYCHIATRIC/NEUROLOGICAL terms is you do not KNOW/FEEL/UNDERSTAND/ACKNOWLEDGE that what you are experiencing is something that you shouldn't be experiencing. Those of us with DP/DR KNOW WE SHOULD NOT BE FEELING THIS WAY.

Individuals who have anxiety disorders fall into the category of neurosis. It is like someone with OCD. THEY KNOW that washing their hands over and over is not logical, yet they can't stop it. They are NOT "CRAZY" ... crazy is not a medical term either.

2. I don't know who said DP/DR is harmless. Chronic DP/DR symptoms like any brain problem can cause difficulties with your life and your work, so it is like any other illness hence it is NOT harmless in the sense that it interferes (to a greater or lesser degree) with your functioning.

3. Psychosis is a proven neurological illness. Schizophrenia, mania, schizoaffective disorders, etc. I have written this out numerous times. DPD is NOT psychosis. It does not LEAD to psychosis. It can make you want to die, to escape the pain of the perceptual distortions and the horror of them, but this is NOT "going crazy."

I'm not going to write this again as TheGame, you do not understand brain disorders or mental illness.
If anyone takes the time to read things I've posted here, great. I can't repeat myself.
The Game is not making any sense in his/her argument as this person simply does not know about the topic.
You need to meet people with mental illness to understand the difference,SEE the difference between someone who has LACK of insight -- psychosis, or who has INSIGHT - neurosis.

If you have anxiety/DPD, you have a "Neurotic disorder" and you are NOT going to evolve into psychosis. However you could become so depressed over it you could want to die. That is not being crazy, that is being depressed.

If someone here had deja-vu and IT NEVER WENT AWAY. They would KNOW, have INSIGHT that wasn't right. They would seek help. There are such cases.

If you believe the television set is telling you to kill the Pope, and you TRULY BELIEVE THAT IS HAPPENING -- you have LOST INSIGHT.

My fingers will fall off trying to clarify this.
Best I can do.

NO ONE HERE IS "GOING CRAZY" FROM DP. But this is a horrible state to be in.

My understanding of it in many cases is it is associated with severe anxiety. Severe anxiety that is chronic is not normal in humans. It should be treated. Individuals who have severe anxiety know they shouldn't be feeling that way and seek help. THAT IS INSIGHT.

-----------------
*Perhaps an easier description of losing insight. My mother had Alzheimer's. When she got sicker the most basic things meant nothing to her. She didn't make good decisions. Once in the hospital she went to the nurses' station naked. She did not even know that was inappropriate. That is TOTAL LOSS OF INSIGHT in a medical/neurological definition. She also would drink her coffee creamers and not put the creamer in the coffee. These things had no more meaning to her. That is EXTREME LOSS OF INSIGHT.

In someone with schizoprhenia, they HEAR A VOICE IN THEIR HEAD telling them to put their hand in a garbage disposal and turn on the disposal. They believe that is what they should do. They do not see that is totally illogical and dangerous.*


----------



## Guest

violetgirl said:


> what do you mean by that?
> do you mean that DPD can give you some sort of burnout?
> 
> yeah you do lost insight with DPD, I agree.
> I couldn't feel pain normally or empathy, two really really important tools for survival and quality of life. only when i recovered I realised what I was missing. like 2 pretty big parts of my brain, not working.


1. Any chronic illness can drag someone down into depression. "Burnout" is not a medical term. Chronic DPD, and I have it, makes me extremely depressed at times. But I have had this for years, improved, but it has not gone away and that makes me terribly unhappy. One day at a time. I am also not psychotic.

2. You DO NOT LOSE INSIGHT WITH DPD. The things you describe are not insight -- empathy is not "insight" -- you are using two terms that have nothing to do with each other, they are not synonymous. Not being able to function well is not LOSS of insight, it is the inability to function socially or occupationally.

I have written all of this about a thousand times.

I can't repeat it anymore.

I suggest individuals here get diagnosed by a professional, as I see many have not been or have only seen a GP. Some have drug-induced vs. non drug induced. Also, treatment for DPD is different in different people and the severity is ON A SPECTRUM. It can be less or more disabling like any illness a person can have.
Some people get through this in a shorter period of time, others have it for a very long time. They don't go crazy. I'm one of those people. I am NOT AFRAID OF GOING CRAZY. I felt that more as a teenager. I am 52. I have w/meds, therapy, lifestyle changes learned to live with this. Others have taken meds and the DP/DR just go away. Others use cognitive behavioral therapy and this goes away.

Each case is different.


----------



## Guest

Dreamer* said:


> 1. Any chronic illness can drag someone down into depression. "Burnout" is not a medical term. Chronic DPD, and I have it, makes me extremely depressed at times. But I have had this for years, improved, but it has not gone away and that makes me terribly unhappy. One day at a time. I am also not psychotic.
> 
> 2. You DO NOT LOSE INSIGHT WITH DPD. The things you describe are not insight -- empathy is not "insight" -- you are using two terms that have nothing to do with each other, they are not synonymous. Not being able to function well is not LOSS of insight, it is the inability to function socially or occupationally.
> 
> I have written all of this about a thousand times.
> 
> I can't repeat it anymore.
> 
> I suggest individuals here get diagnosed by a professional, as I see many have not been or have only seen a GP. Some have drug-induced vs. non drug induced. Also, treatment for DPD is different in different people and the severity is ON A SPECTRUM. It can be less or more disabling like any illness a person can have.
> Some people get through this in a shorter period of time, others have it for a very long time. They don't go crazy. I'm one of those people. I am NOT AFRAID OF GOING CRAZY. I felt that more as a teenager. I am 52. I have w/meds, therapy, lifestyle changes learned to live with this. Others have taken meds and the DP/DR just go away. Others use cognitive behavioral therapy and this goes away.
> 
> Each case is different.


Dreamer is right. Basically, DP is nothing more than suffering. You don't lose any ability or change in any fundamental way. Only the way you FEEL changes.

Crazy people think they're cool and everyone else is crazy. They probably feel good, they aren't aware of their condition.


----------



## Jayden

This definitely gives me some good reassurance so I appreciate that guys. I do have to battle this fear on my own though, reassurance only is temporarily relief.

Thanks for your comments!

- Jayden


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> 1. Any chronic illness can drag someone down into depression. "Burnout" is not a medical term. Chronic DPD, and I have it, makes me extremely depressed at times. But I have had this for years, improved, but it has not gone away and that makes me terribly unhappy. One day at a time. I am also not psychotic.
> 
> 2. You DO NOT LOSE INSIGHT WITH DPD. The things you describe are not insight -- empathy is not "insight" -- you are using two terms that have nothing to do with each other, they are not synonymous. Not being able to function well is not LOSS of insight, it is the inability to function socially or occupationally.
> 
> I have written all of this about a thousand times.
> 
> I can't repeat it anymore.
> 
> I suggest individuals here get diagnosed by a professional, as I see many have not been or have only seen a GP. Some have drug-induced vs. non drug induced. Also, treatment for DPD is different in different people and the severity is ON A SPECTRUM. It can be less or more disabling like any illness a person can have.
> Some people get through this in a shorter period of time, others have it for a very long time. They don't go crazy. I'm one of those people. I am NOT AFRAID OF GOING CRAZY. I felt that more as a teenager. I am 52. I have w/meds, therapy, lifestyle changes learned to live with this. Others have taken meds and the DP/DR just go away. Others use cognitive behavioral therapy and this goes away.
> 
> Each case is different.


Yep each case is different, including mine. I worded that badly, I should have said it happened to me, not that it can make you lose insight.

Not having empathy and the ability to feel pain, i won't go into details, but it lead me to believe some pretty dangerous things and carry them out. I know what you're getting at, people with autism/ Asperger's don't have empathy they don't lose insight. But in my case I did. Because i wasn't able to feel pain or connect with people, I did some pretty weird and dangerous things. I never had the experience of having DP while knowing what it was. 
Maybe my experience with DPD is different to most, but it did lead to me having a breakdown because my brain just wore out, I had it for 20 years and no help for it. For me, it deteriorated, and i couldn't take it any more. 
When I had DP i truly believed I was living in a dream, or wasn't real, i'd had it since childhood so didn't know any difference. I never had the experience of 'i _feel_ unreal', i _believed_ life wasn't real and i was dreaming or I was dead. To me, that's losing insight, just as I did when I thought I'd talk to the devil. I used to think, if i walked in front of a car, i wouldn't die as i'm already dead. And I did some dangerous things to see if i was alive and would i even die. That's my experience. It caused me to lose insight. But I know my case was rare. I don't know how severey my reaction was either compared to other people.

Anyways, I just wanted to post on here, to thank you for pointing out how people talk about 'crazy' and 'schizo' on here.

But yeah, I do agree that DPD won't lead to psychosis, they are two separate things. I developed DP at an age when I wasn't able to understand it. I know my case is not common, but it's my experience.

Also, I don't think getting diagnosed by a professional is necessary. I was never diagnosed, and I cured myself. No doctor or psychaitrist has ever helped me.


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> Dreamer, it amazes me how you bow your head in front of some psychiatrists who decided that "this is scizophrenia, and this is borderline, and this is that, and there is term X but there is no term Y".
> 
> The mind, and the living body is much, much more mysterious and complex than most scientist or psychiatrist could understand (or admit they can). There's a reason that they can't cure a freakin anxiety, let alone scizophrenia. While other times, a *stupid "magic healer" comes and cures panic disorder just by making the person remember a childhood event.*
> 
> The term "borderline personality disorder" is a great proof on how they are not really having a clue about these things. All they do is creating names for a group of symptoms.


I know this is massively off topic, and I know what you are referring to lol

Watch this
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=cYkT_GndKtE


----------



## Guest

Lowrey said:


> Dreamer is right. Basically, DP is nothing more than suffering. You don't lose any ability or change in any fundamental way. Only the way you FEEL changes.
> 
> Crazy people think they're cool and everyone else is crazy. They probably feel good, they aren't aware of their condition.


*I have to turn this off as a watched topic, but Jayden I'm glad you feel better. Like many here, and you know I have told you this, are scaring the Hell out of themselves, especially when the DP/DR are horrible. I understand that.*

1. I will still state that DP/DR, particularly severe and chronic ARE medical disorders. This doesn't mean they can't be treated.
DP/DR fall into the catetory of Dissociative Disorders and anyone can go to many links I have given to see the clear medical definition.
It can be secondary to panic or many other mental illnesses/drug reactions, or it can be CHRONIC, such as mine.

Also, as I've said, and if you read my website, I had this as a very young girl, and lived in an extremely abusive home. It reinforced any anxiety, dissociative tendencies I've had. I wish SOMEONE would read Dr. Mauricio Sierra's textbook, "Depersonalization: A New Look At A Neglected Syndrome" or the website for the Dissociative Disorders research unit at the IoP in London.

2. ALL mental illness is suffering. If everyone here is so terrified of psychosis, do you think psychosis is not suffering?

BUT, there is no word such as crazy. An individual with schizophrenia, when NOT in the middle of a psychotic epsiode CAN HAVE INSIGHT and they can KNOW they are ill and certain things they do are illogical, thoughts they have are illogical. They have SEVERE neurological disorders.

This is a terribly false and cruel statement:



> Crazy people think they're cool and everyone else is crazy. They probably feel good, they aren't aware of their condition.


*You don't understand mental illness either -- and I'm not "bowing down to psychiatry" -- these illnesses are common the WORLD OVER and research into this is WORLDWIDE. But most important, you obviously have NEVER met someone with schizophrenia or any psychotic disorder. That would benefit all of you greatly, but no one makes the effort. If you get involved with volunteering with individuals OF ALL KINDS with a brain disorder you would understand, and you don't make the effort. Volunteer.

In my family I have a cousin with schizophrenia, and another with schizoaffective (a combo of bipolar and schizophrenia to make it simple).

One is 16 and has very little insight and is tortured every moment of his life with voices in his head, panic attacks, paranoia ... medication can help -- but when he is given pills HE BELIEVES HE IS BEING POISONED TO DEATH BY THEM and will not take them, he goes into rages where he has terrified his siblings, he hears voices telling him to kill himself or hurt himself, he will probably need help the rest of his life. His parents are devastated. My other cousin will likely become homeless, in jail or dead. He knows he has manic/psychotic episodes, but comes out of them enough to understand and have Insight. But both of these people are so sick they need lifetime care -- and should actually have it in hospital.

I have also met many other individuals with schizophrenia. I have a friend whose daughter is autistic. There are CHILDREN with schizophrenia.

Why does no one here make an effort to meet or seek out someone who has psychosis? Also, individuals here say that on rec drugs they have hallucinated, been terrified by these things, have "very bad trips" -- that is one glimpse into psychosis. People bring it on here as if it were nothing. If you were stuck in your hallucinations, is that not suffering is that not going to seriously disrupt your life? But more than likely you will come down from your "high." Someone with psychosis does not "come down from the high." It is a battle they fight life long.*

This is so tiresome. I realize many of you are young and I have had far more experience with this, and read far more and studied mental illness far more.

As for my abuse -- I have psychological problems. But I also have SYMPTOMS of DP/DR (chronic -- they used to be less chronic when I was a child), severe anxiety, and depression. Meds have helped me.

Do not call ANYONE CRAZY. THAT is lack of empathy. My first boyfriend in college had the beginnings of schizophrenia, but I didn't know what was happening to him. He did NOT understand my DP/DR but TRIED to. He has, in his 50 years, worked very hard with computers, but also been homeless living on the street. But he is one of the strongest, kindest people I have ever known. He KNOWS he is sick. His mother also had schizophrenia. DON'T JUDGE people.

And believe me I know abuse. Even if I didn't have DP/DR, I have scars from that, that will last a lifetime.


----------



## Guest

Lowrey, most of the time I feel you come here to hurt people and to gloat. You may know about mental illness, but I doubt it. I have no clue why you come here and attack people.

And I have no clue why you don't try to understand someone else's illness. We are all different.

And so many are self-diagnosed here. Many have less severe symptoms from DP/DR than others. And many have a break, it comes and goes. Many here (and I include myself, had DP/DR that came and went during childhood, but it does not go away anymore ... since I was about 30. I have this in my dreams. Why do I dream in DP/DR and others have DP/DR while awake and not asleep? Why is it sometimes I have had episodes where I could not drive my car and had to stop by the side of the road so I didn't kill anyone else with my car EVEN THOUGH I KNEW IT SHOULDN"T BE HAPPENING TO ME. I can "talk myself down" now. That means it doesn't scare me to death when I have an awful episode which are far less than in the past.

And yet I have achieved MANY things despite this. Have FORCED myself to accomplish things. And I try to help others with ALL brain disorders.


----------



## Guest

*Violet Girl -- that video is very touching. Thank you for sharing that.* It is known that unconditional love and animals (which give unconditional love) help children with autism spectrum disorders, but not with all. And autism is never cured. But individuals can be VERY high functioning. Temple Grandin is one such person. Not everyone is so lucky.


----------



## Guest

edited. not worth my time. im good.


----------



## Guest

Lowrey said:


> edited. not worth my time. im good.


I put things in caps as I don't think people read longer explanations.
Also there are many people WITH mental illness who "come out of the closet" and talk about it to help other people.

Individuals with cancer talk about what it is like to live with cancer and to cope.

People with all types of individuals break taboos and stigma by talking openly about their illnesses and help others known they are not alone.

Jayden was confused and concerned. I wanted to clarify what is completely incorrect info.
My guess is you didn't read a word of what I typed in the rest of my posts.

Also, I am a cancer survivor. If I talk about that, and am never "cured" -- it is under control -- that helps others, as others in the same situation have helped me.

DP/DR or brain disorders, and I speak from REAL experience, are WORSE than cancer. And I can say that from experience.


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> Lowrey, most of the time I feel you come here to hurt people and to gloat. You may know about mental illness, but I doubt it. I have no clue why you come here and attack people.
> 
> And I have no clue why you don't try to understand someone else's illness. We are all different.
> 
> And so many are self-diagnosed here. Many have less severe symptoms from DP/DR than others. And many have a break, it comes and goes. Many here (and I include myself, had DP/DR that came and went during childhood, but it does not go away anymore ... since I was about 30. I have this in my dreams. Why do I dream in DP/DR and others have DP/DR while awake and not asleep? Why is it sometimes I have had episodes where I could not drive my car and had to stop by the side of the road so I didn't kill anyone else with my car EVEN THOUGH I KNEW IT SHOULDN"T BE HAPPENING TO ME. I can "talk myself down" now. That means it doesn't scare me to death when I have an awful episode which are far less than in the past.
> 
> And yet I have achieved MANY things despite this. Have FORCED myself to accomplish things. And I try to help others with ALL brain disorders.


I don't a 100% agree with Lowrey's viewpoint on things, and the way he communicates. But a lot of what he says makes sense to me. Doctors don't know what DP is really, me Arbraxas and Lowrey have cured ourselves, with unconventional methods and thinking. I agree, with his caps vent and I am glad someone had finally got the balls to say it. 
There are people on here trying to teach, inculding you- who still have DP. We don't have DP any more, we cured ourselves, yet we've been picked apart and not believed. Our methods and opinions are just as valid!

But it's the same as when in the ayahuasca thread, I talked about my repressed memories/ emotions. You said you were skeptical they existed, and bought up a load of studies to prove your view. Probably not caring one bit about how it would make me feel, almost implying I had made it up. It was just for your benefit because it doesn't fit in with your view on psychiatry. I could have taken that as a personal attack....just saying.

*



Violet Girl -- that video is very touching. Thank you for sharing that. It is known that unconditional love and animals (which give unconditional love) help children with autism spectrum disorders, but not with all. And autism is never cured. But individuals can be VERY high functioning. Temple Grandin is one such person. Not everyone is so lucky.

Click to expand...

*The point of the video was the shamans, not the horses, you totally missed the point. But that don't fit into western psychology. Whatever those shamans did, helped that autistic kid a lot. He'd been failed by western medicine.

And Lowrey has just as much right to be on here as you do. I find his views on DP interesting. 
We need a balance on here.


----------



## Guest

violetgirl said:


> I don't a 100% agree with Lowrey's viewpoint on things, and the way he communicates. But a lot of what he says makes sense to me. Doctors don't know what DP is really, me Arbraxas and Lowrey have cured ourselves, with unconventional methods and thinking. I agree, with his caps vent and I am glad someone had finally got the balls to say it.
> There are people on here trying to teach, inculding you- who still have DP. We don't have DP any more, we cured ourselves, yet we've been picked apart and not believed.
> 
> But it's the same as when in the ayahuasca thread, I talked about my repressed memories/ emotions. You said you were skeptical they existed, and bought up a load of studies to prove your view. Probably not caring one bit about how it would make me feel, almost implying I had made it up. It was just for your benefit because it doesn't fit in with your view on psychiatry. I could have taken that as a personal attack....just saying.
> 
> *
> *Lol. The point of the video was the shamans, not the horses, you totally missed the point. But that don't fit into western psychology.
> 
> And Lowrey has just as much right to be on here as you do. I find his views on DP interesting.
> We need a balance on here.


I never said Lowrey had no right to be here, or that you have no right to be here. What I hate is the tone and attitude.

Also in the autism video, shamans would be the equivalent to therapists, priests, individuals who help treat people and "guide" them. It is known, and I have found this to be true with my friend whose daughter has autism that animals are healing -- the focus was on the horses, and horses and dogs are used by many for treatment of autism. Also, a parent who goes to the ends of the earth is healing.

I know what it is to have a mother, a psychiatrist, who told me I was "faking" my symptoms and not telling me about DP for years when early intervention may have made a difference. I know what it is like to not have lover from either of my parents. I had no siblings. My father left. My mother abused both of us. She had some mental disorder herself, so did my father.

I also speak from experience and study. If you find that useless fine.

I am not judging VIEWS. I care if someone is attacked.

And I'm sorry to say, I try to help correct blatent falsehoods here. Before so many self-diagnosed young people showed up on the board (I used to be a Moderator) there was less rudeness, cruelty, poor information, more true adult debate instead of attacks.
Yes, we all have our own experiences. I get attacked for MINE. I defend my experience, you defend yours. But there is no reason to be cruel, and Lowrey's comments are indeed inappropriate and cruel.

I imagine I am not liked as I tell MY truth, my experience and it scares people.

Every case is unique. And I have lived with this for 52 years. You can tell me I have repressed memories, but I know I don't. I have sought all kinds of help and deal with this in my own way. Again, I am told I am not trying to get well. That is an insult to everyone here who has been struggling for years. If my cancer is terminal I'll fly to Peru to try the damned Ayahuasca. At THAT time I will have nothing to lose.

I would not say that to anyone with any illness that they are not trying.
Done.


----------



## Guest

violetgirl said:


> I don't a 100% agree with Lowrey's viewpoint on things, and the way he communicates. But a lot of what he says makes sense to me. Doctors don't know what DP is really, me Arbraxas and Lowrey have cured ourselves, with unconventional methods and thinking. I agree, with his caps vent and I am glad someone had finally got the balls to say it.


remember, I'm not here to tell you things that makes you feel good, I'm here to make you GET FUCKING RID OF DP. I couldn't care less if I have to offend you to achieve it. I don't care.

You seriously think that thinking about death and how you don't feal "real", worrying about things that even YOU admit is irrational, are SYMPTOMS? you really believe that? it's like asking

_*"Everyday when I get up I kick the shit out of my wardrobe, what can I do to get rid of it?"*_

Man, don't be kicking that shit.


----------



## Guest

Dreamer* said:


> You may know about mental illness, but I doubt it. I have no clue why you come here and attack people.


I don't know about mental illness, and I don't CARE about mental illness. I'm not a fan, like you.

anyway, if you'd take the time to *ACTUALLY READ* my posts, you'd know by now that *I defended* people with DP from someone who said they're "crazy". and now you're talking like I called people with DP crazy.

it's not the first time you can't read, Dreamer.


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> I never said Lowrey had no right to be here, or that you have no right to be here. What I hate is the tone and attitude.
> 
> Also in the autism video, shamans would be the equivalent to therapists, priests, individuals who help treat people and "guide" them. It is known, and I have found this to be true with my friend whose daughter has autism that animals are healing -- the focus was on the horses, and horses and dogs are used by many for treatment of autism. Also, a parent who goes to the ends of the earth is healing.
> 
> I know what it is to have a mother, a psychiatrist, who told me I was "faking" my symptoms and not telling me about DP for years when early intervention may have made a difference. I know what it is like to not have lover from either of my parents. I had no siblings. My father left. My mother abused both of us. She had some mental disorder herself, so did my father.
> 
> I also speak from experience and study. If you find that useless fine.
> 
> I am not judging VIEWS. I care if someone is attacked.
> 
> And I'm sorry to say, I try to help correct blatent falsehoods here. Before so many self-diagnosed young people showed up on the board (I used to be a Moderator) there was less rudeness, cruelty, poor information, more true adult debate instead of attacks.
> Yes, we all have our own experiences. I get attacked for MINE. I defend my experience, you defend yours. But there is no reason to be cruel, and Lowrey's comments are indeed inappropriate and cruel.
> 
> I imagine I am not liked as I tell MY truth, my experience and it scares people.
> 
> Every case is unique. And I have lived with this for 52 years. You can tell me I have repressed memories, but I know I don't. I have sought all kinds of help and deal with this in my own way. Again, I am told I am not trying to get well. That is an insult to everyone here who has been struggling for years. If my cancer is terminal I'll fly to Peru to try the damned Ayahuasca. At THAT time I will have nothing to lose.
> 
> I would not say that to anyone with any illness that they are not trying.
> Done.


I would never ever tell you that you do or don't have repressed emotions/ memories of abuse, because I don't know you or what you've been through. 
What does this have to do with your mother? I'm sorry that happened to you, but what does that have to do with what were talking about?
I feel uncomfortable talking about this because i don't know you at all.

And nobody said that you weren't trying to get well. Who said that?

I don't think Lowrey is being delibretly cruel. I get where his passion and frustration comes from. He's angry *at* DP. I'd rather see someone with that much determination, than endless posts about studies, labels, psychology etc. There needs to be both
There needs to be a balance.

*Before so many self-diagnosed young people showed up on the board (I used to be a Moderator) there was less rudeness, cruelty, poor information, more true adult debate instead of attacks

*Can you explain this? Maybe these 'self-diagnosed young people' are just pissed off and scared and have no help at all? Not everyone is lucky to get a diagnosis, or proper therapy. I didn't, many people on here don't. I dont think there's anything wrong with self-diagnosis, DP is so hard to spot anyways, and gets misdiagnosed.


----------



## gill

Besides all the technicalities here, I think the Game makes a vaild point.

Right now, my dissociation isn't too bad, I'd say on the low side, so I feel confident in saying what I think DP is or is not.

But, while in a state of severe dissociation, that's not easy. DP is a state of confusion. It's really hard to have confidence in any idea, so it does take effort to be insightful at times, at least for me...


----------



## Guest

Final comments.

*Lowrey,* if you don't care about mental illness, then you haven't done what I have done, that is study about Ayahuasca and learn some positive things about it. If you don't care, you can't understand, hence your ignorance is bliss. But serves no purpose in a debate, and my writing to you is a waste of time, yes. We can agree on that, but I am writing for anyone else who might be interested. You can't debate what I bring up as you have no interest in it. You also then have no empathy for many on the Board here who have bipolar, schizophrenia and other disorders that have DP/DR as well. And you call them "crazy."

Also, *violetgirl,* you make fun of me, but if you are familiar with Temple Grandin who has autism (famous woman, has a Ph.D. in animal husbandry and how cattle are treated) you would know that "The Horse Boy" is about acceptance in a calming atmosphere, but most importantly THE HORSES. *That is why they call the child "The Horse Boy." -- not "The Trip To The Shaman That Helped Our Autistic Son"* It is the environment of complete acceptance, the ability for the child to act freely, and to bond with the horses.

See the book review at amazon, by Temple Grandin, Ph.D.. And you will note, I am fascinated by this woman as well, and will now take the time to read "The Horse Boy" because you mentioned it. I have read several of Grandin's books and their is an excellent film out about her. Animals and working alone with them helped her, but she is not "cured" of high functioning autism.

It is a choice to not look at the other side of something. I have had more years to look at many POVs, and yes, have my own opinion. Lowrey has just said he doesn't care about learning. Again, I did a great deal about Ayahuasca. I also read your posts, it doesn't seem you read or understand mine. Learning is life long. I hope to learn new things, well, until I die.

So, we leave it at that.
The film trailer also shows the relationship with the horses, not the shamans.

http://www.amazon.com/Horse-Boy-Fathers-Quest-Heal/dp/B003P2VDB0/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1309561042&sr=1-1
(Downloading this to my Kindle in a few minutes. I am a huge fan of Temple Grandin and this looks wonderful.)

_"Parents and teachers can duplicate the benefits of this trip without having to travel. Horseback riding is a great activity. Many parents have told me that their child spoke his/her first words on a horse. Activities that combine both rhythm and balancing such as horseback riding, sitting on a ball, or swinging help stabilize a disordered sensory system. There are lots of places you can take a child to explore nature such as parks, brooks or a field with tall grass. Children with autism need to be shown interesting things and encouraged to do new things. Everywhere Rowan went he was asked questions and encouraged to talk about the things he was looking at. You need to find QUIET, interesting places away from crowds of people, florescent lights, traffic, and noise, where you can engage the child and keep him tuned in. This is a great book and everyone who is interested in autism, animals or different cultures should read it." --Temple Grandin_

*Violetgirl*, thank you for the reading recommendation. *Lowrey*, your choose to not try to understand the brain only perpetuates stigma. You said "Crazy people think they are cool." Right. They have a super life and committing suicide, living on the street or in jail because of it is just peachy. But I guess you have no empathy for such people. You have NO EMPATHY.










A photo of Temple Grandin, Ph.D. with her favorite critters. She has high functioning autistic disorder. (Formerly Asperger's Syndrome). Autism of all levels in now called Autistic Spectrum Disorder, as all people are unique and have illnesses with differing levels of severity.

I try to get different points of views on things. I try, and over 30+ years have come to certain conclusions. You can put me on "IGNORE" here if you don't want to hear them. And if my life story doesn't count, well, that hurts ME. But I'll live with it.

*Jayden *and others, bottom line, you are not "crazy." You are not "going crazy." And "crazy" is a pejorative term that keeps individuals from serious mental illness from getting help. They are considered dirt in most societies.

As always re: this discussions, we are all unique.


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> It is a choice to not look at the other side of something. I have had more years to look at many POVs, and yes, have my own opinion. Lowrey has just said he doesn't care about learning. Again, I did a great deal about Ayahuasca. I also read your posts, it doesn't seem you read or understand mine. Learning is life long. I hope to learn new things, well, until I die.
> 
> *Violetgirl*, thank you for the reading recommendation. *Lowrey*, your choose to not try to understand the brain only perpetuates stigma. You said "Crazy people think they are cool." Right. They have a super life and committing suicide, living on the street or in jail because of it is just peachy. But I guess you have no empathy for such people. You have NO EMPATHY.


I wasn't making fun of you, The video was intented for Lowrey, but never mind.

Stop saying Lowrey has no empathy! 
That's a huge thing to say about someone. You are not a psychologist, you don't know him personally, just a few posts on here every now and then. 
I could say the same about you! I still go back to the repressed emotions thing on the other thread. You discounted it, because it didn't fit in with your world view and experience, not for my welfare. To me, that is lack of empathy or care for another person's feelings or experience of abuse. But I would never say you personally have no empathy, because i don't know you at all, or your background. And I wouldn't be comfortable making such a personal judgement about someone like that, from just reading a few posts. And you even implied Abraxas was lying about his degree!

So stop saying he has no empathy,I think, understanding, is the word you're looking for.

This thread is getting too personal. I'm not even sure what we're arguing about any more lol. 
I think mine and Lowrey's frustrations stem, from the fact we are both cured, as is Abraxas. None of us are that fond of psychiatry, yet we cured ourselves of DP. So it's really annoying to see psychiatry and studies and stuff brought out at every opportunity as 100% fact, when there is no 'known' cure for DP, hardly any knowledge on why it happens. So it's pretty much DIY on here.

You still haven't explained this, btw.

*Before so many self-diagnosed young people showed up on the board (I used to be a Moderator) there was less rudeness, cruelty, poor information, more true adult debate instead of attacks*

Where should these young people go? And what about people who are self-diagnosed?

.


----------



## Jayden

violetgirl said:


> I'm not even sure what we're arguing about any more lol.


The point of this thread is about how I hear people say DP doesn't mean your going "crazy" and then I hear people saying that anxiety and DP can lead into such things as psychosis. I am in no way making fun of people who have schizophrenia or anything like that, it just happens to be my biggest fear.

That is it really, I just wanted to know that with my DP and anxiety it's not going to progress into something worse.

That was the original point of my thread.


----------



## Guest

I don't have empathy?









then what the hell I'm doing still on this forum. I say again : *I HAVE RECOVERED.*

Yes, I don't care about mental illness, because it is a DP forum, and not a mental illness forum. Talking about fucking scizophrenia will only scare visitors to death, and not solving a tiny bit of their problem. Now you can bring me a study from 2002 from the Massachussetts University by Dr. Harry Henry Ph.D AbC NBA who proves that DP has some chemical connection with scizophrenia, I don't care.

This forum shouldn't be about symptoms and fears, it should be about life problems and feelings. Noone ever got cured by talking about their symptoms.

Here's a quote from an interview with an expert I 100% agree with.



> *What do you think about the fact that nowaday psychiatrists prescribe antidepressants to young people?*
> 
> Antidepressants were invented around 1960, depression was not an illness before. By calling sorrow, grief and hopelessness "illnesses", they did nothing but creating a multi-billion profit industry. ...
> 
> *How would you rebalance the biochemistry of the brain without antidepressants?*
> 
> The moment I meet someone who can love me, the biochemistry of my brain changes. The moment someone frightens me, the biochemistry of my brain changes. ...
> 
> *And what about panic disorder?*
> 
> When someone experiences a panic attack, he or she could basically experience an anger attack instead. I think panic comes when we get punished for being angry as a child. And the only way we can avoid being angry is to panic. We won't get punished for panicking. ... If medications got prescribed for panic disorder, that can even worsen the way the person feels because he may feels like even the doctor doesn't want to know him. Panic disorder is not an illness. A terrible experience, but to find the reasons behind it, is a great detective job.
> 
> *Do you think OCD can be treated without medications?*
> 
> There is no such thing as an obsessive compulsive disorder, so there's no medicines needed. Who they say having OCD, like washing his hand a thousand times a day, can be asked in therapy, to not wash his hands, sit on his hands. Then you can ask him what is this that he is trying to replace with handwashing. And then that is what you should pay attention to, and not the handwashing.
> 
> *So you wouldn't use medications on someone who has bipolar depressive disorder?*
> 
> That's again, a diagnosis. What if, someone who you say have bipolar disorder, is really a person wanting to be perfect because he or she thinks that noone will love him/her if she/he isn't perfect? When the person is hoping he/she can be perfect, he/she is happy, and when it doesn't happen, the depressive phase comes. What needed here is not medications but love and a relationship.
> 
> The problem is, that 10 people can have the same diagnosis while having 10 completely different problems. Diagnosis only blurs the picture.


----------



## Jayden

alright so should I be worried or not???


----------



## violetgirl

Jayd said:


> alright so should I be worried or not???


Not at all Jayd. The two aren't even remotely connected. You'll be fine.

Have you tried any relaxation techiniques to help with the OCD? 
Instead of coming on here all the time worrying about 'the s-word' you should be treating the OCD instead.
You need to be doing stuff that reduces your anxeity. Coming on here and asking constantly about the s-word, is making you worse. You gotta address the OCD itself, not be constantly asking for confirmation because that just feeds into it.

http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22
http://www.hope4ocd....CF2007_MBBT.pdf

Hope things get better for you! I know saying 'dont worry' is pointless, but please try to relax as much as you can.


----------



## Jayden

violetgirl said:


> Not at all Jayd. The two aren't even remotely connected. You'll be fine.
> 
> Have you tried any relaxation techiniques to help with the OCD?
> Instead of coming on here all the time worrying about 'the s-word' you should be treating the OCD instead.
> You need to be doing stuff that reduces your anxeity. Coming on here and asking constantly about the s-word, is making you worse. You gotta address the OCD itself, not be constantly asking for confirmation because that just feeds into it.
> 
> http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22
> http://www.hope4ocd....CF2007_MBBT.pdf
> 
> Hope things get better for you! I know saying 'dont worry' is pointless, but please try to relax as much as you can.


Thanks so much, I'm going to try and take a break from this website and do that!


----------



## violetgirl

Jayd said:


> Thanks so much, I'm going to try and take a break from this website and do that!


hey, no worries. and don't worry, i didn't think you were making fun of psychosis/ schizophrenia. i was having a bad day and took stuff personally.

yeah, ban yourself from the internet, or any health related places for a while.

with the Mindfulness, you need to have a goal in your head before doing it. yours could be to reduce the health fear OCD and to relax.
a lot of the stuff with midfulness is going 'into' your fears. with OCD it goes round and round and round. the main trick for curing OCD is exposure, because avoiding the thoughts just makes it worse and makes anxeity worse. it'll help you pull back from the obsessive thoughts, by concentrating on your breathing.

there is no point in chucking facts at you about DP/ s-word, because no matter how much reassurance you get the fear won't go. you gotta tackle the OCD itself.

I am no psychologist, but the obsession with S-word, _could _be something called Pure-obsessive thoughts. in that it's an obsessive thought, but you're not carrying out a ritual (handwashing etc) but the whole checking and reassurance is becoming a ritual, that needs to be stopped before it gets out of control, because it must be wearing you out.

http://en.wikipedia....Obsessional_OCD

Good luck Jayd!


----------



## Guest

*Jayden,*
Please do what I have recommended, and again, no you are not going crazy.

*Lowrey,*
I can't discuss anything with someone who believes the words of someone who doesn't believe OCD, depression, etc. are mental illnesses, or more specifically brain disorders. As I said, you will not make the effort to look at the most reputable research, and even more important you seem to resist that idea of actually meeting or speaking with someone with any of these disorders. These disorders have existed since the dawn of man.

*Violetgirl,*
I have met with the original creator of this site (was in the UK) had DP. The original discussions were with people who had been diagnosed and/or had done their own MEDICAL journal research and were attempting to find how to treat their DP. At that time the average age on the board was much higher, the individuals had more experience, were more willing to accept different ideas.

There were also FAR fewer young people ... I'm seeing ages here of 15! ... and far fewer who had experimented heavily with drugs.
And fair is fair -- you don't know me either. None of us know each other, though I have met many DP people from this board, and as I said have met many people with mental illness (some in my family). If Lowrey says as he did in his post above "there is no such thing as anxiety, OCD, etc." and that "Crazy people think they are cool." (Honestly I have no idea what that means ... I can infer that that person makes no effort to see the world other than as he wishes to. He does not wish to put himself into other people's shoes, acknowledge there are people on this board with OCD, bipolar, etc.

His, "Get yourself together again" "Hard ass" approach ... I don't appreciate it. That is my opinion. And Lowrey has said some terribly rude things. I state my opinion, but I have never said to you personally, or if I have I am sorry, that certain theories of abuse for instance don't apply to you, but they don't apply to ME. Repressed memories. But I was seriously abused, and that doesn't seem to matter to anyone. And in a time when help did not come early enough for me. As I have said 100 times, what does a 15 year old do, when she has no love, and the first psychiatrist she is "ALLOWED" to see (as my mother was ashamed that I was ill) told me that DP/DR were INCURABLE. That was in 1975. And yet I still kept pushing, and still am. Most doctors said that to me for years.

And as I've said, put me on "IGNORE" if you don't want my contributions.

I have found so many are not looking at FACTS that are common knowledge in medicine and saying things here that are completely untrue. And they dismiss them completely and do no reading or research on them. I have taken the time to look into alternatives discussed here. I still have my own opinion. Saying "I'm cured, and you people are not trying hard enough to get better." IMHO does not show kindness or an attempt to understand that each one of us is unique and has a different path.

The research into DP/DR that occurred in the past decade would not have gotten such a kick start if it weren't for the hard work of the individuals on the original UK forum. Andy C. used to follow Mauricio Sierra at the IoP and Cavan C., Alex H., Ramon R., etc. gathered journal articles as far back as they could find them as reference for the site. Also, another sufferer here went into neuroscience and is a Ph.D. at Cambridge. She KNOWS what it is like to have a psychotic depression, to self-harm, and to have DP/DR. She HAS DP and is in research to help others. I defer to her actually, she knows far more than I do, and is about 35? now. Every day for her, she has pushed herself, and is a brilliant woman. She came from a loving family. One symptom that remained with her (and I havne't been in touch for a few years was DP -- her hands felt like they weren't hers, that they "felt like dough.") and she fights daily against the return of her depression.

So, people were helping people. And there were still spiritual approaches, looking into alternatives.

What terrifies me, and I posted this before, is the number of young people showing up here NOW, say in the past several years, who try all kinds of terrifying drugs (like K2 mentioned recently) that are known to be utter POISON and can kill you. That is not part of my generation, not part of my experience, even at university. There were drugs, but not as many available, such dangerous ones, and so many trying them. I worry about YOUR generation. Anyone here from 15 to 25.

I guess I'm too old or young people here see me as being a "parental figure" and rebel against it.
I am only offering knowledge acquired over a long period of time.
But I say again, I KNOW people personally with OCD, schizoprhenia, bipolar ... these things hit 1 in 4 sometime in their life ... but mainly in young people. Drugs only make things worse.

*But Lowrey says, in essence "there is no such thing as mental illness." This is ignorance I can't tolerate. And it misinforms anyone here who reads it. Also, in re: repressed memories, there is still not enough info on that either, and I am very interested in False Memory Syndrome where false memories are created by certain therapists. Memory is poorly understood. And there are some individuals who can recall EVERY DAY of their lives. They are studying that, and it is in some respect related to some OCD traits, such as contamination fears. Actress Marilu Henner (probably don't know her) has this.*


----------



## Guest

Jayd said:


> alright so should I be worried or not???


NO! NO! NO! Please believe me. Even though I don't know you personally.


----------



## Guest

Lowrey said:


> I don't have empathy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then what the hell I'm doing still on this forum. I say again : *I HAVE RECOVERED.*
> 
> Yes, I don't care about mental illness, because it is a DP forum, and not a mental illness forum. Talking about fucking scizophrenia will only scare visitors to death, and not solving a tiny bit of their problem. Now you can bring me a study from 2002 from the Massachussetts University by Dr. Harry Henry Ph.D AbC NBA who proves that DP has some chemical connection with scizophrenia, I don't care.
> 
> This forum shouldn't be about symptoms and fears, it should be about life problems and feelings. Noone ever got cured by talking about their symptoms.
> 
> Here's a quote from an interview with an expert I 100% agree with.


Many here ASK if they are schizophrenic. I am trying to illustrate that they are NOT with FACTS.

I would like to know about the expert you refer to who doesn't even believe in depression or OCD. Unbelievable in the year 2011. As I've said before, these illnesses have been documented for centuries. You need to read reputable sources. Take a few classes in neurology. AND MEET PEOPLE WHO HAVE THESE DISORDERS.


----------



## Guest

> Crazy people think they're cool and everyone else is crazy. They probably feel good, they aren't aware of their condition.


You wrote this Lowrey. I read your posts.
This statement itself is completely lacking in empathy or fact. As I said, I KNOW, in my family 2 individuals with severe mental illnesses you would call "crazy." One is a 16 year old cousin with schizoprhenia. He doesn't feel good. He is living in Hell. He is terrified, paranoid, hears voices telling him to kill himself, hurt himself, commit suicide, he believes he is being poisoned, that the TV is talking to him, he has horrible panic attacks, he is afraid to wear certain clothes. He cannot attend school. He can be violent.

Also, on his meds, when he has times of lucidity and feels a bit better, HE KNOWS HE IS SICK, and is terrified of THAT. He is aware of condition -- sometimes. The rest of the time he lives in a Hell with demons, voices -- it is essentially a nightmare. He doesn't leave the house much at all. He will NEVER have a normal life. That you can't have some feelings about someone like this and make a joke -- that isn't sensitive or caring. And THAT is empathy -- trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

What you have said, you have said about someone I know personally. Who may very well commit suicide and at this time has no future save institutionalization, jail, homelessness, or death.

And you wouldn't take the effort to meet him or anyone near you (say briefly volunteering at a half-way house). Though I have found reading about alternative experiences with Shamans/psychedelics, etc. very interesting. And some of that research has change my perceptions of the potential for the use of some psychedelics in the treatment of SOME mental disorders -- addiction seems to be one clear research goal.

I have looked into YOUR world. You don't give a S**T about what I have to say. You certainly have no empathy for me. I am making that observation. I am also a human being.


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> *Violetgirl,*
> I have met with the original creator of this site (was in the UK) had DP. The original discussions were with people who had been diagnosed and/or had done their own MEDICAL journal research and were attempting to find how to treat their DP. At that time the average age on the board was much higher, the individuals had more experience, were more willing to accept different ideas.
> 
> There were also FAR fewer young people ... I'm seeing ages here of 15! ... and far fewer who had experimented heavily with drugs.
> And fair is fair -- you don't know me either. None of us know each other, though I have met many DP people from this board, and as I said have met many people with mental illness (some in my family). If Lowrey says as he did in his post above "there is no such thing as anxiety, OCD, etc." and that "Crazy people think they are cool." (Honestly I have no idea what that means ... I can infer that that person makes no effort to see the world other than as he wishes to. He does not wish to put himself into other people's shoes, acknowledge there are people on this board with OCD, bipolar, etc.
> 
> His, "Get yourself together again" "Hard ass" approach ... I don't appreciate it. That is my opinion. And Lowrey has said some terribly rude things. I state my opinion, but I have never said to you personally, or if I have I am sorry, that certain theories of abuse for instance don't apply to you, but they don't apply to ME. Repressed memories. But I was seriously abused, and that doesn't seem to matter to anyone. And in a time when help did not come early enough for me. As I have said 100 times, what does a 15 year old do, when she has no love, and the first psychiatrist she is "ALLOWED" to see (as my mother was ashamed that I was ill) told me that DP/DR were INCURABLE. That was in 1975. And yet I still kept pushing, and still am. Most doctors said that to me for years.
> 
> I have found so many are not looking at FACTS that are common knowledge in medicine and saying things here that are completely untrue. And they dismiss them completely and do no reading or research on them. I have taken the time to look into alternatives discussed here. I still have my own opinion. Saying "I'm cured, and you people are not trying hard enough to get better." IMHO does not show kindness or an attempt to understand that each one of us is unique and has a different path.
> 
> What terrifies me, and I posted this before, is the number of young people showing up here NOW, say in the past several years, who try all kinds of terrifying drugs (like K2 mentioned recently) that are known to be utter POISON and can kill you. That is not part of my generation, not part of my experience, even at university. There were drugs, but not as many available, such dangerous ones, and so many trying them. I worry about YOUR generation. Anyone here from 15 to 25.
> 
> I guess I'm too old or young people here see me as being a "parental figure" and rebel against it.
> I am only offering knowledge acquired over a long period of time.
> But I say again, I KNOW people personally with OCD, schizoprhenia, bipolar ... these things hit 1 in 4 sometime in their life ... but mainly in young people. Drugs only make things worse.


Ok first off, you are lucky you had an official diagnosis. Many people on here don't and never will. I wasn't diagnosed with DP in all the 20 years I had it, it was only when i was 50% snapped out of it i found out what was wrong with me. So what's the problem with people who aren't officially diagnosed? Their opinions are just as valid. Loads of people on here do DIY. I think it's interesting to see the things people come up with on here. And people here are willing to accept different ideas! I find people on here very open minded. And have more experience? So they must know their condition inside out, with medical books to be on here?

Also, it's ironic that you are going on about accepting different ideas, when you can't yourself! That video of 'Horse Boy' although it was intended for Lowrey, and your interpretation of it, and the fact you ignore the Shaman's part in healing the boy shows your narrow minded view of healing/ therapy. Whatever they did clearly helped him, and we could learn from them. As I've said, it's good to have a balance of things on this forum. Not just psych studies and meds. Clearly western medicine can't help everything! And it's a positive thing to have stuff like that on here. I know a lot of people on here are insterested in traditional medicine.

I've found the 'young people' on here, far more open minded and willing to explore different avenues to curing their DP. They try damn hard! They're probably scared, confused, unsure about the future, hormones racing etc. Show compassion towards them, they are suffering too. It's sad that there are 14/ 15 years old on here. Where are they supposed to go then?? Ban them until they understand their condition?

I don't agree with a lot of what Lowrey says. Although, I see what he's trying to say that on here, maybe there should be more talk about feelings, emotions, healing etc. Not so much medication and labels and symptoms.


----------



## Guest

violetgirl said:


> Ok first off, you are lucky you had an official diagnosis. Many people on here don't and never will. I wasn't diagnosed with DP in all the 20 years I had it, it was only when i was 50% snapped out of it i found out what was wrong with me. So what's the problem with people who aren't officially diagnosed? Their opinions are just as valid. Loads of people on here do DIY. I think it's interesting to see the things people come up with on here. And people here are willing to accept different ideas! I find people on here very open minded. And have more experience? So they must know their condition inside out, with medical books to be on here?
> 
> Also, it's ironic that you are going on about accepting different ideas, when you can't yourself! That video of 'Horse Boy' although it was intended for Lowrey, and your interpretation of it, and the fact you ignore the Shaman's part in healing the boy shows your narrow minded view of healing/ therapy. Whatever they did clearly helped him, and we could learn from them. As I've said, it's good to have a balance of things on this forum. Not just psych studies and meds. Clearly western medicine can't help everything! And it's a positive thing to have stuff like that on here. I know a lot of people on here are insterested in traditional medicine.
> 
> I've found the 'young people' on here, far more open minded and willing to explore different avenues to curing their DP. They try damn hard! They're probably scared, confused, unsure about the future, hormones racing etc. Show compassion towards them, they are suffering too. It's sad that there are 14/ 15 years old on here. Where are they supposed to go then?? Ban them until they understand their condition?
> 
> I don't agree with a lot of what Lowrey says/ Although, I see what he's trying to say that on here, maybe there should be more talk about feelings, emotions, healing etc. Not so much medication and labels and symptoms.


1. Because you have no official diagnosis, and I would say MANY here do not, this means you may not have DPD specifically, hence when you say "I am cured of this" you could actually have something else. You may not have what I have. Without a diagnosis you are looking things up without knowledge ... hence why people scare themselves and think they have other disorders.

OR if someone has OCD w/DPD (I also have a friend in that situation) -- she is older than I am and had the OCD life long -- you could treat the OCD and the DPD might go away very quickly. This happened to my friend. 30 years refusing to see any doctor, then being diagnosed with OCD, getting on a medication and her OCD and DPD went away.

2. I have no problem with young people except I FEAR for them, I am concerned, they should come here, but this is no substitute for talking with parents and a doctor! And many rely on this as "fact" -- no one here is an expert save in his or her/own experience:
a. BEING UNDIAGNOSED
b. Scaring each other more than I've ever seen without knowledge
c. Taking so many rec drugs I never would have tried in my day, without fear, yet "Big Pharma" is the devil or something.
d. An increase in incredible rudeness and cruelty to others.

3. There are MANY debates here. It's good this is not in the main forum. There is an Alternative Treatment section here. You will notice that I don't visit there and attack anyone. EVER. There is also a Spiritual Forum, where I do not go and attack anyone, EVER. Also, again, and this ia useless, I have read a lot about the shamanism and alternative methods. There is also a guy on here who has DPD (chronic), makes films and went to see "John of God" in South America for a miracle. His film is amazing. He does not push one theory or another. I have met him in person ... Toronto. He has more than just a diagnosis of DPD, but that is his most horrible symptom. He is around 40. I loved the film. I have the DVD of it. He doesn't visit much here at all but is on FB.

4. Do you have "The Horse Boy" in your hands? All you saw is a brief trailer for a film. I presently have the BOOK it was based on, on my Kindle. You didn't read Temple Grandin's review. It has to do with the power of the Mongolian horse and the power of autistic children to connect with horses. The indigenous people provided a place for the child to "act out" but also to have a peaceful location. There is also a theory that some Shaman's may have autism. But the boy was loved in that location. I am just starting the book. ARE YOU?

You can download it from Amazon for 9 bucks right now, if you have a Kindle. I have looked at more than the documentary trailer which lasts two minutes. Again, YOU didn't read the amazon review by Temple Grandin, Ph.D. who has autism.

5. I have spilled my guts on my website, but am doing even more, going into depth in a book I am writing. I hope to get the DP word out, but also how I have been damaged psychologically by my abuse. I am a very emotional person.

But here are my diagnoses: Social Anxiety, GAD, Clinical Depression, DPD. I have researched ... in the past in medical libraries as there WAS NO INTERNET and I thought I was completely alone ... and understood more of my illness, as you younger people here have come on the internet. But I never FOUND others who described symptoms like mine that I could connect with, save my friend with OCD.

You misunderstand everything I say. And it is very dangerous for many young people here to be self-diagnosed. A few might need MORE help -- therapy even, just therapy. They are not getting help that could make them feel better and not let a condition go chronic.
Also, how many here who are 15 ... God help me ... can purchase alternative remedies on the internet, treat themselves properly, go to South America? I feel sad as I could be the Mom of so many here, AND I have battled with this crap ALONE for about 40 years before I found the internet.

*Are you reading "Horse Boy?" I am now. I will report on how it is -- the 300 page book that the documentary grew from -- as I figure you won't.*

I give up. You have no clue what I'm talking about, or who I am. None. And believe it or not, it shouldn't matter to me, yet it is frustrating and hurtful. I know other people here who are afraid to go in the chatroom (I don't chat) because there are juvenile acting people who are hitting on girls (YOUNG GIRLS) and NOT talking about DP. This IS a forum to help each other. I offer the help I can, in my own way.

Happy Independence Day to the Yankees. GAH.


----------



## violetgirl

i have most definitely been cured of DPD! i know what i've been battling with all these years.

i have no official diagnosis of this. i do however have numerous official diagnosises that are totally wrong, including bipolar. I didn't know anything about DPD until i was getting better, I snapped halfway out of it, and hit the net to figure out what was happening to me. DP was the only thing i found that matched how i'd been feeling for most of my life, and it made perfect sense considering what i'd been though. so what else could i have? 
i don't think it's necessary to have a proper diagnosis at all. besides, it's so difficult to get a diagnosis, a lot of doctors don't even know what it is! what do you mean 'you may not have what I have?' i think people experience DP/ DR differently, some symptoms stronger than other, and it's influenced by any co-morbid conditions. 

many young people on here have no access to 'proper' help, so this is their only resource. it's not perfect, i agree. many can't afford or can't find a doctor to help them, hence the DIY approach. i think many would like the help, of course but it's so difficult to find. getting a diagnosis of DP is really difficult as many doctors don't even know what it is!

i cannot see this cruelty and rudenes that much. i see a lot of emotions and opinions flying around. and i dont think it's fair to blame this on 'young people'. as i've said, many are scared, hormonal, and don't know what to do. they are trying their best. not everyone has the time or resources understand DPD. in fact, I think it's a really bad idea to get obsessed with DPD if you have it, as any obsession fuels DP. and i can't imagine it's much fun. you can have all the knowledge in the world, but not know 'yourself' which is the most important thing. 

i think people get 'attacked' on here, and I have on occasion too, and i've done it to other people i'm sure, is that peple feel strongly about stuff. it's unfortunate that the opinions people have on here are really personal, and often link back to abuse/ emotional issues so it can be hurtful. also, people are fragile and having DP, and being on the net, makes the whole thing feel uneal, so people aren't that careful of each other's emotions. 

i've watched the film, it's really good. it's a cute film, and it's quite amazing how the shamans help the little boy (as well as the horses). you'll have to watch it to see what i mean. no doubt the horses helped, apparently it's something to do with the rocking motion. i haven't read the book. i only bought it up, as we were talking about psychiatry and i wanted to show Lowery that video because it's an alternative way to treat people. 

in chat, i imagine people like to talk about things other than DP, as it's depressing and they want to just talk 'normally'. many want a break from the daily crap of DP. so what if they don't talk about it! talking and thinking about DP or mental health stuff constantly would make most people depressed. i also don't agree with medicating DP or anxeity. i think psych medication is used far too much and is poisonous, apart from severe disorders such as bipolar and schizophrenia. i believe a natural approach is best.

what do you mean by alternative rememdies? i'm currenly on 5htp. i bought it online. i'd rather take these than psych medication.

and i am not misunderstanding you, i just don't agree with what you are saying! not everyone is gonna agree with each other, and yeah it don't feel nice, but that's life.


----------



## Guest

Dreamer* said:


> *Lowrey,*
> I can't discuss anything with someone who believes the words of someone who doesn't believe OCD, depression, etc. are mental illnesses, or more specifically brain disorders. As


I accept it. IMO this belief is the reason you haven't recovered all these years. You block the solution from yourself with your beliefs . Your researches are only for making business for the companies who sells medications.


----------



## Guest

Jayd said:


> alright so should I be worried or not???


not even the slightest way. try to release blocked emotions that causing this. you're healthy completely, and you'll NOT BE SCIZO. you won't hallucinate. I guarantee.


----------



## Guest

*Violetgirl*, if you have never had a proper diagnosis, which is also my beef with psychiatrists, you could have borderline -- I don't know (which is a mood dysregulation disorder) ... it is more likely to resolve DP/DR if you have that diagnosis.

There is also a huge debate re: whether drug induced, or non drug-induced DP can be treated in the same way, and there might be some indication it can pass more quickly than one is born with DPD (in a healthy family, or a family where MANY members have DPD) or someone who is abused.

We can disagree. If I have hurt you in any way I apologize. Each one of us has something to contribute. And our own experiences are important.
As far as alternative therapies, I was given drugs early on, and I am also on an anti cancer drug. I had a mastectomy last year, and am presently awaiting to see if anything has gone to the other breast. The meds I'm on prohibit me from testing alternatives (which were NOT known about or used widely in the US) during the early years of my illness. But one med kept me from killing myself. It was only suggested when I was 28.

It is also a fact that if someone takes St. John's Wort with an SSRI, they can up their blood pressure so much they can have a stroke (they are very similar). The same in the Ayahuasca/DMT discussion. If someone is on an MAOI they can die from ingeting DMT. Many people don't know that. *Drugs are drugs. "Alternatives" are drugs, medicinal or not. And that is a fact.*
---------------------------

*Lowery, I was ROFLMAO at your comment. Yes, of course, I am a secret spy for "Big Pharma" and have been for years. Pushing drugs, etc. Love it.*

You both forget, that I was born in the late 1950s, my parents were both doctors, my mother a severely abusive psychiatrist (M.D.) who knew exactly what was wrong with me, but wouldn't tell me as she was ashamed of me. At University I studied psychology and the theories that existed at the time. I also visited one of the last State Institutions as part of my studies. VERY sick people with nowhere else to go.

And I volunteer with the mentally ill. I see them, and speak with them first hand.
Do you think NONE of this has affected me? Has lead me in certain directions.

There is no specific treatment for DP/DR, but it can be created in healthy individuals say by stimulating certain parts of the brain.

There is too much information now, especially with genetics, electric CIRCUITRY in the brain, etc. to ignore these FACTS.

*And as noted, I was already familiar with the treatment of autistic children with animals -- horses in particular. THAT was also considered a silly idea here in the US, until it was discovered by some who found their children responded well to animals vs. people.
I am on the 4th chapter of "The Horse Boy." He first responds to the horse his father owns in Texas. I have not yet gotten to the chapter of their trip. I have no problem with these parents seeking anything to help their child. I would do the same. Rowan is SO sick.
*
But I learned one thing ... the most important help that say shaman's offer is *LOVE. LOVE is what is healing. Unconditional acceptance.* I believe that. It may not be a cure, but it improves quality of life in all illnesses. I never got love. My parents didn't want me and did not love me.

My experience is my own. Yours is your own. Neither psychiatry nor "Big Pharma" please me in the least -- I am sick of stupid psychiatrists; I prefer to listen to neurologists who have DP/DR patients. But strides in understanding other brain disorders, will lead to treatments for YOUR generation. Again it is unfortunate that many are misdiagnosed, or never diagnosed. And as I said, recreational drug onset, may be very different from "natural onset" and "natural onset" with abuse.

*Lowrey, I feel it is fair enough to say you are certainly a piece of work. I'm LOLing again over your comment about me; based purely on ignorance.

My goal here is to sell pharmaceuticals to everyone. I actually work for Pfizer! LOL.







*

And Lowrey again, you still don't spell the pejorative word for schizophrenia properly ... it would be Schizo and should never be used to describe someone with that illness. Also, I haven't done "researches" I have done research.


----------



## Guest

And again, Jayden ... you are not losing your mind, you will not get schizoprhenia. I have said, please seek some form of treatment where you can talk with a good therapist. Please.
And that is where this entire thread started. And Jayden is still confused.
That is very sad.


----------



## Guest

Dreamer* said:


> *Lowrey, I feel it is fair enough to say you are certainly a piece of work.
> *


*

my work is done. I'm DP-free.*


----------



## Guest

Dreamer* said:


> And Jayden is still confused.
> That is very sad.


and who do you think is confusing Jayden?


----------



## violetgirl

Dreamer* said:


> *Violetgirl*, if you have never had a proper diagnosis, which is also my beef with psychiatrists, you could have borderline -- I don't know (which is a mood dysregulation disorder) ... it is more likely to resolve DP/DR if you have that diagnosis.
> 
> There is also a huge debate re: whether drug induced, or non drug-induced DP can be treated in the same way, and there might be some indication it can pass more quickly than one is born with DPD (in a healthy family, or a family where MANY members have DPD) or someone who is abused.
> 
> It is also a fact that if someone takes St. John's Wort with an SSRI, they can up their blood pressure so much they can have a stroke (they are very similar). The same in the Ayahuasca/DMT discussion. If someone is on an MAOI they can die from ingeting DMT. Many people don't know that. *Drugs are drugs. "Alternatives" are drugs, medicinal or not. And that is a fact.*
> ---------------------------
> 
> *Lowery, I was ROFLMAO at your comment. Yes, of course, I am a secret spy for "Big Pharma" and have been for years. Pushing drugs, etc. Love it.*
> 
> .*
> My goal here is to sell pharmaceuticals to everyone. I actually work for Pfizer! LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> And Lowrey again, you still don't spell the pejorative word for schizophrenia properly ... it would be Schizo and should never be used to describe someone with that illness. Also, I haven't done "researches" I have done research.


What do you mean 'it is more likely to resolve DP/ DR if you have that diagnosis?'

I think English is Lowrey's second language. I don't agree with his views on why you have not got well. I think what he is getting at, is that he sees people medicalising DP and emotional issues rather than tackling the underlying issues. I may be wrong, but I think that's what he's trying to say. And I agree with him. I don't believe DP is a mental illness, it's a psychological state, caused by underlying pain. Although, drug induced DP is different. 

Also, I think identifying with DP obsessing over it is not a good idea. As I said before, you can have all this knowledge but not know yourself
I'm sure there are people on here with BPD, DID, bipolar who also have DPD. It's all the same condition (DPD), just different co-morbid stuff. I most definitely have other stuff as well as DP. But for me, I had this for most of my life and didn't know what it was, so as soon as I snapped out of it, I researched it and it made sense to me. Since coming out of the DP, very weird stuff has been happening to me lol. I know that my DP is part of a bigger problem,as it is for a lof people.

I totally believe that whatever the Shamans did worked, and I don't think it's just 'love and acceptance'. It's ancient medicine, treatment. Try to get the film if you can, you'll enjoy it, it's very moving. 


I'm sorry you've had such a hard time with your parents and upbringing.


----------



## gill

nm, i'm just being repetitious......


----------



## Guest

> it is more likely to resolve DP/DR if you have that diagnosis.


whooo. I think the bigger problem comes when you label an emotional situation "depersonalization". When someone is in a state like that, confused, afraid, scared, and you tell him that he/she's depersonalized, you make it even worse. It's a stupid term that scares the shit out of someone who's in such a terrible feeling.

i may not spell everything properly, but trying to take a shot by coming with that is shameful. You getting personal, Dreamer, and the problem is I don't give a damn. I feel good.

*Once you call an emotional problem an "illness" is the moment you give away responsibility, faith and power.*

Scizophrenia is a psychiatric term, created by your loved pyschiatrists, who make good money. They collected a bunch of symptoms, and called them scizophrenia, DP,DR, anxiety, panic and depression. (I experienced something and I had symptoms of all. That means they're not seperate things. You don't get 4 different "illnesses" at one time.)

By getting a diagnosis you only get an identity as a "depersonalized person" (







), a "depressed person", or an "anxious person". And that makes you more sad and hopeless.


----------



## gill

Lowrey said:


> whooo. I think the bigger problem comes when you label an emotional situation "depersonalization". When someone is in a state like that, confused, afraid, scared, and you tell him that he/she's depersonalized, you make it even worse. It's a stupid term that scares the shit out of someone who's in such a terrible feeling.
> 
> i may not spell everything properly, but trying to take a shot by coming with that is shameful. You getting personal, Dreamer, and the problem is I don't give a damn. I feel good.
> 
> *Once you call an emotional problem an "illness" is the moment you give away responsibility, faith and power.*
> 
> Scizophrenia is a psychiatric term, created by your loved pyschiatrists, who make good money. They collected a bunch of symptoms, and called them scizophrenia, DP,DR, anxiety, panic and depression. (I experienced something and I had symptoms of all. That means they're not seperate things. You don't get 4 different "illnesses" at one time.)
> 
> By getting a diagnosis you only get an identity as a "depersonalized person" (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), a "depressed person", or an "anxious person". And that makes you more sad and hopeless.


I don't get this.

If you don't label IT DP, then how are people supposed to have a dialog about what they experience? People label things and categorize things so they can talk about them...

And as far as labeling my issue as DP, I don't see how thats making me sad or hopeless, or giving away responsibility. Actually, I feel more empowered knowing what's wrong, and being able to talk to others who've been through similar.


----------



## Guest

gill said:


> I don't get this.
> 
> If you don't label IT DP, then how are people supposed to have a dialog about what they experience? People label things and categorize things so they can talk about them...
> 
> And as far as labeling my issue as DP, I don't see how thats making me sad or hopeless, or giving away responsibility. Actually, I feel more empowered knowing what's wrong, and being able to talk to others who've been through similar.


I use the term DP too. All I'm saying is that you have to look behind the terminology in order to understand what's going on.

anyway, I'm tired of this thread. I catch myself arguing about stupid things again.

if you want to get rid of this, listen to me. if you don't agree with me, suffer.

wish all the best


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> whooo. I think the bigger problem comes when you label an emotional situation "depersonalization". When someone is in a state like that, confused, afraid, scared, and you tell him that he/she's depersonalized, you make it even worse. It's a stupid term that scares the shit out of someone who's in such a terrible feeling.
> 
> i may not spell everything properly, but trying to take a shot by coming with that is shameful. You getting personal, Dreamer, and the problem is I don't give a damn. I feel good.
> 
> *Once you call an emotional problem an "illness" is the moment you give away responsibility, faith and power.*
> 
> Scizophrenia is a psychiatric term, created by your loved pyschiatrists, who make good money. They collected a bunch of symptoms, and called them scizophrenia, DP,DR, anxiety, panic and depression. (I experienced something and I had symptoms of all. That means they're not seperate things. You don't get 4 different "illnesses" at one time.)
> 
> By getting a diagnosis you only get an identity as a "depersonalized person" (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), a "depressed person", or an "anxious person". And that makes you more sad and hopeless.


I half agree with you here. 

Schizophrenia/ bipolar/ psychosis are mental illnesses than need medication, no doubt about it. Untreated schizophrenia is horrible, and dangerous. If a person is having delusions that could make them harm themselves or other people, that person needs treatment. It's not an emotional, but chemical imbalance. 

I agree that calling an emotional problem an illness is not good for you. DP is an emotional state. (uness it's drug induced)


----------



## violetgirl

gill said:


> I don't get this.
> 
> If you don't label IT DP, then how are people supposed to have a dialog about what they experience? People label things and categorize things so they can talk about them...
> 
> And as far as labeling my issue as DP, I don't see how thats making me sad or hopeless, or giving away responsibility. Actually, I feel more empowered knowing what's wrong, and being able to talk to others who've been through similar.


I agree that there needs to be a label/ name for DP, or else what do you tell a doctor etc if they want to treat you?

I think he means, labeling an emotional issue (DP, anxeity etc) as a mental illness, takes away the notion that you have the power over it and can heal yourself.


----------



## Guest

I know someone who is a diagnosed scizo. He was a receptionist when he just turn around and stabbed someone 20 times. He later told that a sound in his head told him to do that. He was serious when he told this. They guy did a great GED anyway, speaks different languages.

Now, if you believe that you can get an "illness" that will make you kill someone (AND it can be "cured" with medications), then you're (sorry) stupid.


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> I know someone who is a diagnosed scizo. He was a receptionist when he just turn around and stabbed someone 20 times. He later told that a sound in his head told him to do that. He was serious when he told this. They guy did a great GED anyway, speaks different languages.
> 
> Now, if you believe that you can get an "illness" that will make you kill someone (AND it can be "cured" with medications), then you're (sorry) stupid.


I'm not sure what you mean

Are you saying that it's not possible to have an illness, that produces voice hallucinations and makes the person do violent things?


----------



## Guest

violetgirl said:


> I'm not sure what you mean
> 
> Are you saying that it's not possible to have an illness, that produces voice hallucinations and *makes the person do violent* things?


Nothing can make you do violent things. Only you can choose to do violent things.

People who have DP/Anxiety, and fear that they'll become "mentally ill", misunderstand the term.

You can not get a mental illness, like you can get a virus. It's not a tangible thing (there's not a single proof that scizophrenia exists by the way, it is diagnosed only upon self-reports). You may do things because you want to do things, then a doctor may call you a scizo.

Have you ever been drunk? You may acted differently, but you don't do anything that you don't CHOOSE to do while being drunk. You may regret something the next day. But that doesn't mean you're not responsible for the things you did or said while drunk.


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> Nothing can make you do violent things. Only you can choose to do violent things.
> 
> People who have DP/Anxiety, and fear that they'll become "mentally ill", misunderstand the term.
> 
> You can not get a mental illness, like you can get a virus. It's not a tangible thing (there's not a single proof that scizophrenia exists by the way, it only observed by self-reports, anyway). You may do things because you want to do things, then a doctor may call you a scizo.


Lowrey, I agree with you up to a point about emotional problems being labelled as mental illness.

But here, I totally disagree with you. I've experienced episodes of psychosis, where I did things to mysef that no 'sane' person would do. I opened up my inner arms with razor blades, because I believed there were implants in them. I didn't 'chose' to do it. In the same way, that guy could have been hearing voices telling him the person he stabbed was going to kill him first.


----------



## Guest

violetgirl said:


> Lowrey, I agree with you up to a point about emotional problems being labelled as mental illness.
> 
> But here, I totally disagree with you. I've experienced episodes of psychosis, where I did things to mysef that no 'sane' person would do. I opened up my inner arms with razor blades, because I believed there were implants in them. I didn't 'chose' to do it. In the same way, that guy could have been hearing voices telling him the person he stabbed was going to kill him first.


then I have nothing more to say here. if you don't believe in free will, what progress are you hoping for?

this is just a proof that these terms like DP are totally misleading. right now, I talk to you, we're both on a DP forum, when I know, that I'd never ever cut my arms with razor blades. another guy opened a thread saying he'll kill himself and not logged in since. I'd never even say, write or post anything like that, EVER. I sooner swallow my blood than I swallow my pride.

but the term "depersonalization" takes us on the same field. we all could be diagnosed with DP, while having totally different problems.


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> then I have nothing more to say here. if you don't believe in free will, what progress are you hoping for?
> 
> this is just a proof that these terms like DP are totally misleading. right now, I talk to you, we're both on a DP forum, when I know, that I'd never ever cut my arms with razor blades. but the term "depersonalization" takes us on the same field.


Because you can get DP as well as other stuff. There are people on here who self-harm, have depression, other co-morbid stuff. 

I had episodes of psychosis that were not related to the DP. 

But I didn't have the free will not to slice my arms open, because I genuienly believed there were implants in them. As people with schizophrenia/ psychosis believe really irrational things, their thoughts are messed up and they have no control over it.


----------



## Guest

Whatever.

I wish the best for everyone.


----------



## violetgirl

Lowrey said:


> Whatever.
> 
> I wish the best for everyone.


Can I ask, why do you cling to the notion of 'free will' so much? Is this since reovering from DP? 
Does it help to feel that everyone is in control of their mental conditions (emotional or chemical)?

I don't think you're baiting or being cruel, altough I think you're being insensetive and I genuienly think you don't understand mental illness and are sticking to your views. You have to understand the difference between a chemical imbalance (bipolar, schizophrenia etc) and emotional imbalance. I can understand why Dreamer is getting so upset, as she knows a lot of people with mental illnesses and it sounds like it's quite personal for her.

Not all people with mental illnesses wind up killing people, most are a danger to themselves.

I know after having DP the thought of it coming back is terrifying, and it looks like you have built up this idea of 'free will' as a means of control. But DP is very different from other mental conditions. You can't apply the logic of DP/ anxeity onto schizophrenia/ bipolar as they are very different conditions. It won't work. 
I will support your ideas of not labelling emotional issues with psychiatric labels, and people need to process pain, anger and trauma. But your views on mental illness, are just totally illogical, and I can see why people are getting pissed off. 

I know you mean well and want to help, but if you want to understand mental illness maybe here isn't the best place to ask about. Because many people on here, have co-morbid conditions and it's likely to upset people. You said it, _but the term "depersonalization" takes us on the same field. we all could be diagnosed with DP, while having totally different problems_. That's exactly right. We get DP for different reasons yet the feeling is the same.

Also, you got to understand that your experience of DP is unique. Telling people they're not getting well because of this and that, and being confrontational is not going to work, plus you don't know that person's history, they may have abuse/ trauma.

Also, don't you worry about my progress. I don't have DP any more, yet I believe in mental illnesses and I don't totally believe in 'free will'


----------



## gill

violetgirl said:


> I think he means, labeling an emotional issue (DP, anxeity etc) as a mental illness, takes away the notion that you have the power over it and can heal yourself.


I guess some people will interpret that label that way. Understandable.

I personally don't.

The DP itself, the perceptions/sensations, are involuntary to me. The control comes in the actions taken in response......


----------



## TheGame

Jayd said:


> Not gonna lie, I was just starting to feel good today and reading this ruined it. Yes, living with DP causes bad anxiety for me....so does that mean if I feel burnt out from this I am going to just snap one day and become psychotic?


Yeah thats what i said...

And to dreamer.

I know that people on this forum has become psychotic as a result of entering DPD. Ask Thoughtonfire on this forum. he got DP then he started hearing voices and i dont care how many times he smoked marijuana while dp'd before he got this way. He himself admits that DP was the condition that pushed him over the edge.

Ofcourse DPD in and of itself isnt psychosis and if you would only read what im writing youd understand that too.

And im sorry your DP is chronic Dreamer.

Also, i was on the very edge towards something deeper than DP BECAUSE of dissociation. So to completely seperate the two isnt wise and it would be spewing ignorance to be so black and white as you are. And i know you know this. I know i dont have a degree in psychiatric disorders or a PHD or whatever but im a smart guy so i know when im listening to complete nonsence. AND AGAIN JUST SO THAT YOU READ THIS I AM NOT SAYING THAT DPD IS PSYCHOSIS...NOT....SAYING....THAT....DPD....IS...PSYCHOSIS...BUT...THAT IT COULD LEAD TO IT from DPD


----------



## Jayden

TheGame said:


> Yeah thats what i said...
> 
> And to dreamer.
> 
> I know that people on this forum has become psychotic as a result of entering DPD. Ask Thoughtonfire on this forum. he got DP then he started hearing voices and i dont care how many times he smoked marijuana while dp'd before he got this way. He himself admits that DP was the condition that pushed him over the edge.
> 
> Ofcourse DPD in and of itself isnt psychosis and if you would only read what im writing youd understand that too.
> 
> And im sorry your DP is chronic Dreamer.
> 
> Also, i was on the very edge towards something deeper than DP BECAUSE of dissociation. So to completely seperate the two isnt wise and it would be spewing ignorance to be so black and white as you are. And i know you know this. I know i dont have a degree in psychiatric disorders or a PHD or whatever but im a smart guy so i know when im listening to complete nonsence. AND AGAIN JUST SO THAT YOU READ THIS I AM NOT SAYING THAT DPD IS PSYCHOSIS...NOT....SAYING....THAT....DPD....IS...PSYCHOSIS...BUT...THAT IT COULD LEAD TO IT from DPD


I don't know what to think anymore. Like today was a horrible day at work because I constantly had intrusive thoughts that were "delusional-like" thoughts. I'm not going to lie, the thoughts are like "what if someone is spying on me" and stuff like that.

Now, do I believe that...No I don't believe in that at all. But the fact that I have thoughts like that to begin with scares me because I think I must be on the verge on psychosis/schizophrenia.

I mind as well mentally prepare myself that I am about to become schizophrenic by what your saying. I don't know why I got DP in the first place, but I guess it's just the pre stage before I go schizo then...


----------



## TheGame

Jayd said:


> I don't know what to think anymore. Like today was a horrible day at work because I constantly had intrusive thoughts that were "delusional-like" thoughts. I'm not going to lie, the thoughts are like "what if someone is spying on me" and stuff like that.
> 
> Now, do I believe that...No I don't believe in that at all. But the fact that I have thoughts like that to begin with scares me because I think I must be on the verge on psychosis/schizophrenia.
> 
> I mind as well mentally prepare myself that I am about to become schizophrenic by what your saying. I don't know why I got DP in the first place, but I guess it's just the pre stage before I go schizo then...


Well ive had these kinds of thoughts and recently too. But the mere fact that we know that these thoughts are bull is the thing that makes us "normal" Besides its just a bounch of stress that makes these thoughts come in. and as soon as the stress levels and your dissociation stops being so damn strong you will eventually calm down to and realize that you where just riled up over the condition and your health in general.

Thats at least what i figured..


----------



## Pablo

Lowrey said:


> whooo. I think the bigger problem comes when you label an emotional situation "depersonalization". When someone is in a state like that, confused, afraid, scared, and you tell him that he/she's depersonalized, you make it even worse. It's a stupid term that scares the shit out of someone who's in such a terrible feeling.
> 
> i may not spell everything properly, but trying to take a shot by coming with that is shameful. You getting personal, Dreamer, and the problem is I don't give a damn. I feel good.
> 
> *Once you call an emotional problem an "illness" is the moment you give away responsibility, faith and power.*
> 
> Scizophrenia is a psychiatric term, created by your loved pyschiatrists, who make good money. They collected a bunch of symptoms, and called them scizophrenia, DP,DR, anxiety, panic and depression. (I experienced something and I had symptoms of all. That means they're not seperate things. You don't get 4 different "illnesses" at one time.)
> 
> By getting a diagnosis you only get an identity as a "depersonalized person" (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), a "depressed person", or an "anxious person". And that makes you more sad and hopeless.


Yes I think this is true, many of the problems from mental illness come from shame and stigma from all the labels, for example the World Health Organisation showed that schizophrenics have double the recovery rate in some third world countries like India and Nigeria despite the lack of health care, because there it isn't stigmatised and it is treated differently within their culture. Without the fear, pressure and isolation people recover better.


----------



## Visual

Pablo said:


> Yes I think this is true, many of the problems from mental illness come from shame and stigma from all the labels, for example the World Health Organisation showed that schizophrenics have double the recovery rate in some third world countries like India and Nigeria despite the lack of health care, because there it isn't stigmatised and it is treated differently within their culture. Without the fear, pressure and isolation people recover better.


Good point - *double the recovery rate &#8230; because &#8230; less fear, pressure and isolation*

This is one reason why so many recover from DPD once they start tackling anxiety - retraining their thinking to reduce stress responses. (Nice when others help)

One's DP may or may not stem from an anxiety disorder, but removing 'the-straw-that-breaks-the-camels-back' is VERY helpful.

*&#8230;This bothers me because I have anxiety based around my fear of schizophrenia&#8230;*

Do whatever it takes to dismiss the 'What If'. Work on 'What Now'.


----------

