# DP may be a thing of the past!



## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi

I am conducting an online survey and study for finding an effective, natural and cost-effective treatment for DP. If you are interested in participating, please visit http://www.tapforhealth.org/dpindex.html for more details.

Resolving your DP may be closer than you know it!!

Regards
Jeremy


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

If you google for 5 minutes for information about the above website and it's practitioners, it's obvious that this is a quack based money making scheme.

These people have zero medical and psychotherapy credentials or licensing and it's very dangerous for people with psychiatric disorders to gamble with none professionals.

The 'online servey' site above is nothing more than an advertisment for a quack medical and psychotherapy practice called 'Emotional Freedom Techniques' (EFT). This is an offshoot business of a quack therapy from the 80's called 'Thought Field Therapy' (TFT).

Here some information about TFT:

The ultimate armament in the TFT arsenal is Voice Technology (VT), a highly proprietary technique that Callahan claims is nearly 100% ?effective? in eliminating a host of mental, emotional, and physical disorders. Notably, Callahan?s small cadre of VT practitioners assist their clients telephonically?but not before paying Callahan $100,000 for individualized training. Callahan calls the expense justified, given VT?s revolutionary powers, and says VT-trained therapists can recoup their investments by charging clients upward of $300 per session, often with a $1,500 minimum. Aside from the thorny issues of six-figure fees and phoned-in therapy, critics decry a process by which nonprofessionals can presumably begin training at sunrise and be practicing by sunset. Neither apologetic nor given to understatement, Callahan?well into his 70s?champions TFT as ?the power therapy of the 21st century.? Says Pignotti, ?[Callahan] says he has treated more people than any psychologist in history, which is probably true.? Also true: VT is treated as a trade secret. Before receiving instruction, students must sign confidentiality agreements.

http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/swt_1104p30.htm

The EFT site looks like a quake therapy pyramid like scheme. The site promotes and sells a lot of material to become a 'certified' EFT practitioner, despite the fact that EFT is not recognized as a licensed psychotherapy or medical practice. It looks pretty obvious that the above poster is looking for a new DP niche and clients for his new 'EFT' practice, probably after paying EFT thousands of dollars to join the scheme.

I'm outraged that someone would disguise an advertisment for unlicensed 
psychotherapy as a DP research survey. Jeremy McMinn, I will be speaking with the Manchester authorities on monday.

M


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

It's just a survey Methusala, and the EFT manual is free. He's not asking anyone to buy the $60 CD's (which you don't really need to start applying EFT on yourself) or to come down to his office for $1500 worth of EFT sessions.

EFT, EMDR, craniosacral therapy, and tons of new experimental stuff is not conventional psychotherapy, but still people try it and some benefit from it. I welcome any attempt to see IF something might help esp if it's free. EFT, network spinal analysis, and acupuncture are all based around the same energy meridian concept. is it all quackery? is acupuncture? I don't know, but I'd rather keep an open mind, and it's not like all my so called licensed therapists with their approved methods have done much for my dp. just my 2 cents.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

rula said:


> It's just a survey Methusala, and the EFT manual is free. He's not asking anyone to buy the $60 CD's (which you don't really need to start applying EFT on yourself) or to come down to his office for $1500 worth of EFT sessions.


There are a lot of dodgy practices which offer you something for free at first, though. The Scientologists come to street festivals around where I live offering a free "audit". I think it's good that Methusala made us aware of the economics behind this therapy.



> is it all quackery? is acupuncture? I don't know, but I'd rather keep an open mind, and it's not like all my so called licensed therapists with their approved methods have done much for my dp. just my 2 cents.


From what I can gather, quackery seems to concern itself with a lot of difficult-to-treat maladies, but generally does not offer it's techniques for peer review to the larger scientific community.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

The odor of spam lies thick in the air in this thread; could someone please delete it?

e


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

In response to the above post by Methusala I would like to clarify and clear up the following.

Number One : I am not an EFT practitioner. I am not affiliated with the EFT website or founder, Gary Craig in any way, shape or form. This project is being conducted entirely in my own free time (as stated on the website). I have not asked for any money in return for participating in this survey and do not intend to do so. In fact I have spent my own money purchasing the domain and hosting. This is being conducted after seeing EFT work wonders for myself. The only motive behind this "quack based advertising, multi-level marketing, pyramid scheme" or whatever else you may want to call it is to find solutions for peoples consistent suffering. And in this case, the subject of DP is extremely dear to me having suffered from it myself.

Number Two : EFT was derived from TFT by a man named Gary Craig. Gary was trained in TFT by Dr. Callahan and also paid for this Voice Technology (I think the price was $100,000). The reason Gary founded EFT was that TFT was far too expensive and he wanted to find a cheap (in this case FREE) way of using these techniques. The manual to learn the technique is FREE. The idea of EFT being a pyramid scheme is absolutely ridiculous!! There is absolutely no evidence of this and further research into the site will prove this. TFT is now outdated as people can download this manual for FREE and learn to do all of these things for FREE. Methusala's comments abouot EFT have absolutely no ground to stand on.

Number Three: EFT is based on the Human Meridian system. Acupuncture is based on the Human Meridian system. Acupuncture is not quackery. You can study this in universities.

Methusala please do contact the authorities as soon as you can. I have nothing to hide and am only doing this survey and study from a loving and compassionate heart. I would reccomend trying EFT out on yourself sometime, you might be extremely surprised at the results!!

I have a disclaimer on the website. If you wish to participate in the survey, that is entirely up to you. I am not conducting unlicensed psychotherapy. Not once have I ever used the word Psychotherapy.

http://www.lifeworks-group.com.au/research.htm

The above link shows a study that was done on people who were diagnosed as clinically depressed. This was showcased on the regional TV station, in several magazines and newspapers. EFT was used for this study.

Any other questions, I am more than happy to answer

Regards
Jeremy


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Lunar Lander said:


> There are a lot of dodgy practices which offer you something for free at first, though. The Scientologists come to street festivals around where I live offering a free "audit". I think it's good that Methusala made us aware of the economics behind this therapy.


The big money only comes in if you want to become a therapist. The MOST that you can possibly lose on this "dodgy" practice is $60 dollars. I can post tons of links about the economics of the pharmaceutical industry and their "therapies" too (which have cost me thousands of dollars) but yet they advertise here, right on top; I'm sure this would't be a problem if he'd just paid for advertising like everyone else instead of just posting a thread. :lol:



> From what I can gather, quackery seems to concern itself with a lot of difficult-to-treat maladies, but generally does not offer it's techniques for peer review to the larger scientific community.


The technique is detailed in the EFT manual, but there's nothing scientific about EMDR or acupuncture either. I know people who swear by EFT guys, *it works for them. *I'm not just defending this guy to be argumentative or cuz I care to try another "cure", but don't dismiss it just cuz you googled and found a skeptical view, I can find one on just about any treatment.


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## walkingdead (Jan 28, 2006)

No matter what the root cause for Jeremy's concern(money."goodheartedness" etc), anything that gives false hope to sufferers of this shit should be banned. Meridians are a bunch of fiction just like acupuncture. People swear by all kinds of things but that does not mean these things have any basis to them. I pray every night to be cured but so far I haven't found any proof that that helps. Please money grabbing idiots, stay off this site. We may have DP, but we are not stupid. As a matter of fact I think the majority of people on here are above average intelligence and can spot a scam a mile away.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

EFT is worth a try as it is completely free and very easy. I doubt it can really do a lot of good for severe DP and I also very much doubt that it can cure PTSD like many EFT practitioners think it can. I tried it every day consistantly for a few weeks and I couldn't notice much, but I found it hard to find emotions to tap away as I was so disconnected which explains why it didn't work. But for those more connected with panic etc it is worth a try.

Meridians very much exist and can be proven scientifically and accupressure does have an impact on health on many levels. In China open heart surgery is conducted with only accupuncture needles as a pain killer. I personally have experienced the pain killing power of one needle in my hand at the base of my thumb which completely eradicated some intense pain in my back while it was in, then when it was taken out the pain came back immediately.

I saw Paul Mckenna (the TV hypnotist) use EFT on somebody with tourettes syndrome and in a week his symptoms were reduced by about 70%. This could have been set up for TV but it was impressive when I saw it (it is pretty hard to fake tourettes ) so for some conditions it could perhaps help. It cant harm to try but dont ever pay any money as you can learn everything you need from the web for free.


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## walkingdead (Jan 28, 2006)

THIS WAS QUOTED FROM ABOVE:

Meridians very much exist and can be proven scientifically and accupressure does have an impact on health on many levels. In China open heart surgery is conducted with only accupuncture needles as a pain killer. I personally have experienced the pain killing power of one needle in my hand at the base of my thumb which completely eradicated some intense pain in my back while it was in, then when it was taken out the pain came back immediately.

If meridains exist then point me to ONE astual scientific study that proves this(not some psuedo scientist trying to prove his "theory"). You cannot. It is not a scientific reality. We would like to believe it exists but that does not mean it does. I would like to think there is a heaven after this hell but I am out of luck there too.
I know this will stir up all the "believers" but do you want your potential cure for this crap to be based on bullcrap or proven scientific methods. And if you can fool yourself into believing this is cured by some witchdoctor of voodoo practice, then more power to you. Remember it is all in the mind.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

walkingdead said:


> Meridians are a bunch of fiction just like acupuncture.


There's a lot of frustration in your words walkingdead, and it's understandable. BUT, my best friend had her wisdom teeth pulled out with nothing but acupuncture needles in her (cuz she's VERY anti-meds), and felt *no* pain. Fiction? hardly.


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## walkingdead (Jan 28, 2006)

rula said:


> walkingdead said:
> 
> 
> > Meridians are a bunch of fiction just like acupuncture.
> ...


And my ex-wife saw a ghost stand up in our living room after setting in the rocking chair.All anecdotal evidence. 
As I said point to one truly scientific study that proves meridians exist. Someone saying that they feel no pain proves only that they think they feel no pain, not that some mysterious "energy" fields exist.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Though this has gotten off topic, I would like to point out that there is in fact a process of photographing energy fields by Kirlian Photography. I feel this is fairly scientific....


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

walkingdead said:


> If meridains exist then point me to ONE astual scientific study that proves this(not some psuedo scientist trying to prove his "theory"). You cannot. It is not a scientific reality. We would like to believe it exists but that does not mean it does. I would like to think there is a heaven after this hell but I am out of luck there too.
> I know this will stir up all the "believers" but do you want your potential cure for this crap to be based on bullcrap or proven scientific methods. And if you can fool yourself into believing this is cured by some witchdoctor of voodoo practice, then more power to you. Remember it is all in the mind.


Read this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4493011.stm
Researchers used PET scans to see which areas of the brain lit up with placebo and acupuncture and for the acupuncture tests extra areas of the brain lit up which are known for pain modulation. Or this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nacu21.xml

Im not saying that accupuncure can do anything for DP , but meridians do exist if you like them or not. Do you realise how many millions of people have practised acupunture for thousands of years? If there was not something to it dont you think it would have declined in popularity.

The World Heath Organisation recommends it for some health problems usualy involving pain reduction and arthritis type problems. In China it is commonly used for open heart surgery!!!, if it had no benefit then would it really be used for something so serious?


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Jeremy, 
Oddly enough I was reading the EFT manual just last night! I got to the basic recipe part, and it seemed too confusing. lots of tapping, the 9 Gamut, the phrases...how long does it usually take to get all that down? and, if you're not an EFT therapist, then how is it that you're "offering the chance to work one on one and tailor an individual solution for approximately 5 people free of charge"?

P.S. I also find the question "Where in your body do you feel your DP?" a little...odd


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## 1A (Aug 12, 2004)

rula said:


> Jeremy,
> Oddly enough I was reading the EFT manual just last night! I got to the basic recipe part, and it seemed too confusing. lots of tapping, the 9 Gamut, the phrases...how long does it usually take to get all that down? and, if you're not an EFT therapist, then how is it that you're "offering the chance to work one on one and tailor an individual solution for approximately 5 people free of charge"?
> 
> P.S. I also find the question "Where in your body do you feel your DP?" a little...odd


Just use a showerhead and feel the water pressure hitting and rebounding off the palms of your hands and the back of your hands.

As the taut spray of water is hitting your hand say "This is my hand. My hand belongs to me. My hand is a part of me."

And then do the other hand. You could also say "This is my palm. My palm belongs to me. My palm is a part of me."

This should help ground you.

Read "Healing Trauma" by Peter Levine for more of these types of exercises.

Jeff


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Hi Rula

That is a coincidence indeed! Yes the EFT Basic Recipe may seem confusing at first. I didn't have a clue what to do and was very confused. In fact when I first heard about it, I totally wrote it off as something silly!! It popped up again when I needed it the most and has bailed me out of many a dark time! It only takes a short while to remember what you need to do. EFT has developed now to such a point that you can totally miss out the finger points and the 9 gamut procedure.

I would recommend using the KC (Karate Chop) point for your setup phrase and repeat your statement 3 times as stated in the manual. Then proceed through the "meridian" points Eyebrow, Side of Eye, Under Eye, Under Nose, Chin, Collarbone, Under Arm and then I would recommend adding 2 other points that they have found are useful on top of these. Directly below the nipple is also a meridian point and the vortex on top of your head.

To answer your other questions

1. The question on the survey that seems odd is in fact not after digging a bit further! Blocked energy and tension shows up in different parts of your body for different people. "Where in your body do you feel your DP?" is aimed at trying to distinguish where you feel your blocked energy. Before I started this survey I guessed that most people would say in their head. Others feel it in their stomach, chest area, legs, back, shoulders, neck etc.
The reason I asked this was that feelings in your body tend not be random. When your feeling burdened perhaps, your shoulders may seem heavy or if your feeling heart broken you may feel energy in your chest area. Blockages of energy in the Crown Chakra (this is on the head) cause symptoms all very similar to DP. Google crown chakra and you will find the symptoms of a blocked Crown Chakra.
Also it is possible after this study that the blocked energy may have moved to a different part of the body, which is very common with EFT. Then repeating this question at the end may show shifts in the energy!

2. Yes you are right I am not an EFT therapist. I have used this on myself to extremely successful degrees and realise that sometimes when you are so overwhelmed with your situation that is hard to find emotional issues to work on because you are so close to yourself. Sometimes some outside help is beneficial. I am really keen to find a natural solution for DP and by offering this help for free also shows I am not trying to make money off this project. If EFTF can help these 5 people (if I manage to find 5) then imagine what example that can set for others! I am in fact very happy with my fuul time emplyment as a Chiropractic Assistant 

If you need any help at all please do not hesitate to email me at [email protected]

I hope this has answered your questions

Regards
Jeremy McMinn


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

If you are interested in the effectiveness of these "quack" techniques, check out the following link. There are several videos of people being treated on television (Larry King, Donnie and Marie etc). There is in fact one of Carmen Electra being treated.

http://www.gem-systems.com/#video

Peruse for your own pleasure


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

Here is the only study done on 'EFT' by a peer reviewed University research journal:

The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice
Objective Investigations of Controversial and Unorthodox Claims in Clinical Psychology, Psychiatry, and Social Work

Assessment of the Emotional Freedom Technique
An Alternative Treatment for Fear

Authors:
Wendy L. Waite - Department of Psychology and Neuroscience, University of Lethbridge
Mark D. Holder - Department of Psychology, Okanagan University College

Author Note:
Correspondence concerning this article should be addressed to Mark D. Holder, Department of Psychology, Okanagan University College, 3333 College Way, Kelowna, BC, Canada, V1V 1V7. E-mail: [email protected].

Abstract:
The effectiveness of the Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), a treatment for anxiety and fear, was assessed. One hundred nineteen university students were assigned and tested in an independent four-group design. The groups differed in the treatment each received: applied treatment of EFT (Group EFT); a placebo treatment (Group P); a modeling treatment (Group M); and a control (Group C). Participants' self-reported baseline and post-treatment ratings of fear were measured. Group EFT showed a significant decrease in self-report measures at post-treatment. However, Group P and Group M showed a similar significant decrease. Group C did not show a significant decrease in post-treatment fear ratings. These results do not support the idea that the purported benefits of EFT are uniquely dependent on the "tapping of meridians." Rather, these results suggest that the reported effectiveness of EFT is attributable to characteristics it shares with more traditional therapies.

http://www.srmhp.org/0201/emotional-fre ... nique.html

In other words there is no measurable benefit from the 'tapping' techniques of EFT. Taking placebo sugar pills would have the same effect.

This journal is a great resource for legitimate peer reviewed research on mental health practices.

I stand by my claim that charging $100,000 for 'technique training' and then doing $1500 phone call sessions is like a pyramid scheme.

Jeremy says the product is now free, yet doesn't explain why EFT is still affiliated with TFT, nor why there is a lot of advertising for training and session services that cost money on the web site. The web site doesn't reveal what a session of EFT with a practitioner costs. Jeremy also refuses to explain how he is supposedly not be a practioner yet is able to design customized EFT treatments. Jeremy's original posting also made no mention of EFT, instead he presented himself as some type of researcher. Now his posts are trying to confuse the issue of his deceptive marketing practices and are still focused on promoting EFT. To those familiar with how deceptive marketing practices work, this speaks volumes about the nature of the EFT business.

Jeremys 'survey' page and posts combines both language designed to prevent a lawsuit and language designed to make a sham claim that EFT has a %60 cure rate for DP. Imagine a website saying 'consider my magic pill treatment for baldness, it's been discussed as having a %60 cure rate, and btw-if you buy it you also agree to not sue me for any reason.' That might be a good general way to detect DP cure scams, substitute the word 'baldness' for DP and see if it sounds like a scam.

M


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

BTW, Carmen Electra is not a research scientist and it's deceptive to imply that celebrities are somehow authorities on medical research. Using celebrities to promote products is not what survey researchers do, it's what
get rich quick schemers do.

M


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## freesong (Dec 26, 2005)

Hello!!!! Why do you not believe that there are meridians in the body????? This whole world is full of atoms and electrons and postive and negative charges blah blah blah. Why wouldn't the body be connected to and designed to work in this manner? I do not know anything yet regarding acupuncture or EFT but I truly believe that there are energy channels or meridians in the body. That seems very scientific to me. I will do some research on this for myself. I do not believe that any kind of treatment that will make someone well should cost too much as that is not how we as loving beings should do things. Once we achieve a reasonable level of comfort, I believe that we should be about helping each other and finding answers to life's problems if and when they do exist. I have a friend who has taught me much of this stuff himself after reading books. He has been able to apply many of the principles from this kind of thing as well as nutrition etc to me. . I am getting well so............ I believe that some of us need to think outside the box a bit more and some need to come in a bit. It is all about balance and moderation and peace and love. Remember, contempt prior to investigation and by that I mean STUDY all you can before writing off anything that will help. I don't want to offer false hope but I do want to offer true hope. I believe that we are close to some answers but it may be different ones for each person. " There will be an answer, let it be"........... ( I do not talk too much about this here but ,for me, the Bible is my first resource and the other stuff is sifted carefully through there.) I do not go into some areas but this does not seem like a wrong area to me. But, again, that is just my belief for now. freesong


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

Kirilian photography is nothing but coil driven electric fields interacting with photo film and water in the photo subject.

Living things...are moist. When the electricity enters the living object, it produces an area of gas ionization around the photographed object, assuming moisture is present on the object. This moisture is transferred from the subject to the emulsion surface of the photographic film and causes an alternation of the electric charge pattern on the film. If a photograph is taken in a vacuum, where no ionized gas is present, no Kirlian image appears. If the Kirlian image were due to some paranormal fundamental living energy field, it should not disappear in a simple vacuum (Hines 2003).

http://skepdic.com/kirlian.html

I think it's important to distinguish what 'works' for someone on a spiritual or artistic level and knoweldge about the natural world that has been verified by experiment. Pastors or other spiritual healing people can help with deep issues like love and meaning, but they will be less helpful for situations like epilepsy or other brain disorders. DP is one of the 5 dissociation symptoms that have been statistically validated by Dr Steinberg's research as being a recognizable psychiatric condition when certain minimum criteria are met. Disclaimer-I'm not a professional. So when someone meets the criteria for DP, it's safe to say their issues have passed out of the 'deep meaning' area and into the 'psychiatric condition' area. Most leading spiritual authorities like the pope, etc are generally carefull to stay in the 'deep meaning' area and out of the 'science' area.

One of the leading scientists in history was Richard Feynman, who discovered fundamental theories about sub atomic particles. Feynman said 
a fundamental way to know if someone was doing science or not was if they were willing to bend over backwards to answer doubts about their experiments. In other words in science, a theory is considered dismissed until quality evidence accumulates showing otherwise. The default stance of the experimental method known as science, which is the leading way to evaluate theories about the natural world, is doubt. Scientists are very reluctant to claim a theory is correct and use careful language, this can be seen in their research papers like the one I referenced in my post above.

I was once in communication with a group of people who had a fringe anthropology theory. Whenever doubts about the theory came up, these people would say 'you didnt study hard enough.' That's the opposite of what Feynman said science is.

I think there are areas in life for 'going with the flow', those areas are things like socializing, arts and spiritual practices, but not evaluating theories about the natural world.

There are energy fields in the body, they are the tiny and complex electric fields produced by the movement of ions in organs such as the heart and brain. There are research journals devoted to studying them with equipment like ekg's.

Below are some doubts about the accupuncture theories of the natural world:

In 1990, three Dutch epidemiologists analyzed 51 controlled studies of acupuncture for chronic pain and concluded that "the quality of even the better studies proved to be mediocre. . . . The efficacy of acupuncture in the treatment of chronic pain remains doubtful." [4] They also examined reports of acupuncture used to treat addictions to cigarettes, heroin, and alcohol, and concluded that claims that acupuncture is effective as a therapy for these conditions are not supported by sound clinical research [5].

Acupuncture anesthesia is not used for surgery in the Orient to the extent that its proponents suggest. In China physicians screen out patients who appear to be unsuitable. Acupuncture is not used for emergency surgery and often is accompanied by local anesthesia or narcotic medication [6].

How acupuncture may relieve pain is unclear. One theory suggests that pain impulses are blocked from reaching the spinal cord or brain at various "gates" to these areas. Another theory suggests that acupuncture stimulates the body to produce narcotic-like substances called endorphins, which reduce pain. Other theories suggest that the placebo effect, external suggestion (hypnosis), and cultural conditioning are important factors. Melzack and Wall note that pain relief produced by acupuncture can also be produced by many other types of sensory hyperstimulation, such as electricity and heat at acupuncture points and elsewhere in the body. They conclude that "the effectiveness of all of these forms of stimulation indicates that acupuncture is not a magical procedure but only one of many ways to produce analgesia [pain relief] by an intense sensory input." In 1981, the American Medical Association Council on Scientific Affairs noted that pain relief does not occur consistently or reproducibly in most people and does not operate at all in some people [7].

In 1995, George A. Ulett, M.D., Ph.D., Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, University of Missouri School of Medicine, stated that "devoid of metaphysical thinking, acupuncture becomes a rather simple technique that can be useful as a nondrug method of pain control." He believes that the traditional Chinese variety is primarily a placebo treatment, but electrical stimulation of about 80 acupuncture points has been proven useful for pain control [8].

The quality of TCM research in China has been extremely poor. A recent analysis of 2,938 reports of clinical trials reported in Chinese medical journals concluded that that no conclusions could be drawn from the vast majority of them. The researchers stated:

In most of the trials, disease was defined and diagnosed according to conventional medicine; trial outcomes were assessed with objective or subjective (or both) methods of conventional medicine, often complemented by traditional Chinese methods. Over 90% of the trials in non-specialist journals evaluated herbal treatments that were mostly proprietary Chinese medicines. . . .

Although methodological quality has been improving over the years, many problems remain. The method of randomisation was often inappropriately described. Blinding was used in only 15% of trials. Only a few studies had sample sizes of 300 subjects or more. Many trials used as a control another Chinese medicine treatment whose effectiveness had often not been evaluated by randomised controlled trials. Most trials focused on short term or intermediate rather than long term outcomes. Most trials did not report data on compliance and completeness of follow up. Effectiveness was rarely quantitatively expressed and reported. Intention to treat analysis was never mentioned. Over half did not report data on baseline characteristics or on side effects. Many trials were published as short reports. Most trials claimed that the tested treatments were effective, indicating that publication bias may be common; a funnel plot of the 49 trials of acupuncture in the treatment of stroke confirmed selective publication of positive trials in the area, suggesting that acupuncture may not be more effective than the control treatments. [9]

Two scientists at the University of Heidelberg have developed a "fake needle" that may enable acupuncture researchers to perform better-designed controlled studies. The device is a needle with a blunt tip that moves freely within a copper handle. When the tip touches the skin, the patient feels a sensation similar to that of an acupuncture needle. At the same time, the visible part of the needle moves inside the handle so it appears to shorten as though penetrating the skin. When the device was tested on volunteers, none suspected that it had not penetrated the skin [10].

In 2004, a University of Heidelberg team proved the worth of their "sham acupuncture" technique in a study of postoperative nausea and vomiting (PONV) in women who underwent breast or gynecologic surgery. The study involved 220 women who received either acupuncture or the sham procedure at the acupuncture point "Pericardium 6" on the inside of the forearm. No significant difference in PONV or antivomiting medication use was found between the two groups or between the people who received treatment before anesthesia was induced and those who received it while anesthetized [11]. A subgroup analysis found that vomiting was "significantly reduced" among the acupuncture patients, but the authors correctly noted that this finding might be due to studying multiple outcomes. (As the number of different outcome measures increases, so do the odds that a "statistically significant" finding will be spurious.) This study is important because PONV reduction is one of the few alleged benefits of acupuncture supported by reports in scientific journals. However, the other positive studies were not as tightly controlled..

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... s/acu.html

M


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## freesong (Dec 26, 2005)

I define a "quack" as someone who purports to get you well and then doesn't. That definition can be applied to many Allopaths as well as money-hungry Wholistic types with no true knowledge. As far as the meridians are concerned, the verdict is still out for me. I am going to research. The real answers seem to be found with many minds and in many places but ultimately the quest for wellness is left up to us. We must be willing to be healed. We must be willing to be whole. We must be willing to do anything that might help, if we are to achieve our life back. Useless arguments regarding these efforts are wasting time. I am frustrated by them. We should be supporting and encouraging each other in whatever quest that person is on regardless of the lack of validity in some research papers we read. I think we are all adults and can make the decisions we need to with regard to where or when it is appropriate to spend our money. Cautioning against something that cannot harm and might really help is making me angry!!!!! I am getting increasingly tired of the negative arguing in this forum. Without love, there is no healing!!!! Please stop!! Sincerely, freesong


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

I agree with freesong. This will be the last time I try and defend the absurdity of the claims Methusla is making about EFT. In fact I feel extremely sorry that some-one is making a massive deal to block a genuine attempt at finding a natural solution to DP. I hope though that someone does get something useful out of this thread whatever that may be.

Quoted by Nethusala

*"I stand by my claim that charging $100,000 for 'technique training' and then doing $1500 phone call sessions is like a pyramid scheme."*

I don't know where you get the idea that you need to pay $100,000 for technique training for EFT. You can learn EFT completely free! The manual is free!!!!!! The most outlay you will pay to learn EFT is the DVD's off the website, which show live application of the techniques which is about $60!?!? And if you want to learn more you can go to a workshop which might set you back another $100-$150. People generally only pay for the DVD's and workshops if they [want to become extremetly serious about EFT and start using it on others. Now $60 plus $150 equals $210. That is absolutely nowhere near the ridiculous claim of $100,000 as stated above. b]EFT is completely independent of TFT[/b]. Gary Craig the founder of EFT in fact says constantly that the Voice Technology of TFT (which he paid $100,000 for) is useful, but not needed and the reason he came up with EFT was so the public did not need to go and see a TFT pracatitioner and pay lots of money over the phone. To have an EFT session is nowhere near $1500, I have no idea where you plucked that figure from. In fact that could be defined as defamation and slander Methusala, you may have to be very careful here about researching what you say before you say it. *Again I repeat EFT is independent of TFT*. EFT is also approved and used *by thousands of licensed medical doctors, psychiatrists, psychotherapists, psychologists, osteopaths and any other doctor you can possibly list.* I have in fact had an EFT session with a medical doctor that only used EFT now for his practises. This was a licensed Medical Doctor. Now if this was quackery, surely someone would be saying something to these thousands of licensed health practitioners to stop them from their "quackery"!!!!!!!

Methusala if you had a closer look at that film clip of Carmen Electra being treated on the Donny and Marie show, she was being treated for a phobia by *two licensed doctors*. She was just the client in this case. Have a look at the other video clips too if you have an open mind.

Now if you visit http://www.mercola.com which is run by Dr. Joseph Mercola (who is on the advisory board of EFT) you will notice that this is a doctor who is completely committed to natural solutions to healht problems. He started using EFT in his practise a while back aand now does not ususally prescribe medications anymore. Before he was using EFT he was prescribing medications non-stop. He has plenty of interesting information on his website about the medical profession, including a statistic that doctors are now the 3rd leading cause of death in the US after heart disease and cancer as published by the Journl of the AMrican Medical Association.

*"Jeremy also refuses to explain how he is supposedly not be a practioner yet is able to design customized EFT treatments."*

Please read my above post to Rula. I have explained this in great detail.

*Now his posts are trying to confuse the issue of his deceptive marketing practices and are still focused on promoting EFT. To those familiar with how deceptive marketing practices work, this speaks volumes about the nature of the EFT business."*

Yes you are right I am absolutely committed to promoting EFT. Yet I do not get any financial reward out of it, and probably never will! I am trying to find a natural solution, that people can do on their own so they are not reliant on medications. This is a technique that once you learn (for FREE) you can use it on yourself anytime.

*Jeremys 'survey' page and posts combines both language designed to prevent a lawsuit and language designed to make a sham claim that EFT has a %60 cure rate for DP. Imagine a website saying 'consider my magic pill treatment for baldness, it's been discussed as having a %60 cure rate, and btw-if you buy it you also agree to not sue me for any reason.' That might be a good general way to detect DP cure scams, substitute the word 'baldness' for DP and see if it sounds like a scam.*

Yes you are absolutely right. I am trying to prevent a lawsuit. You know in this day and age, people tend to sue for anything. I am being smart, not deceptive. The mere fact that these techniques are new and although there have been no recorded abreactions over the 10 years they have been used, you can never totally rule it out. So in this sense, the Disclaimer is totally needed. Not once did I say that EFT has a 60% cure for DP. I merely stated that EFT has approx 60% success rate. Whether that be with a headache, phobia or whatever else. I am glad you pointed that out in fact because I will now change the wording on the site so this is not confusing for people trying to read it. By the way.* No one is buying anything, I am not selling anyting, i don't even know how to accept money online, I am only trying to see if EFT can help with DP. I am not saying it can. I am only trying to find out.*

This will be the last post I will make on this thread. It is promoting negative energy and that is the last thing I want to do. If anyone has any questions, please do not hesitate to email me at [email protected]

With Love and Gratitude
Jeremy


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## Methusala (Dec 22, 2005)

Jeremy, why won't you reveal what EFT practioners charge for a session? Why don't you explain why the EFT site promotes EFT practitioners 'building a thriving EFT practice.'

Gary Craig hasn't repudiated TFT, has news about it on his site, and changing a 'T' to an 'E' and the new practice of not revealing practitioner prices doesn't equal a fresh start.

I certainly hope no one takes seriously Jeremy's suggestion that EFT can be used in place of going to a medical Doctor, or that EFT has any association with licensed medical practice.

Jeremy, your cruel attempt to gain clients by manipulating people with challenges in their life will fail.

M


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

..


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Methusala I think you are being a bit hard on Jeremy as he is not here to defend every EFT/TFT practitioner who charges for their services. He has repeated consistantly that he is not trying to get clients and charge for his efforts and if this proves to be a lie then I think you have the right to knock and critisise what he is doing, but until then I dont really see why you cant give him the benefit of the doubt.

Jeremy I think some people react badly to EFT because they make some wild claims in the press and the web such as being able to cure PTSD (which I very much doubt they can) and another example is the title of your post "DP may be a thing of the past!", because people look at it and think there might be some sort of breakthrough or cure, whereas in reality EFT I my opinion will probably not make much of a difference.

I read an article about a lady who was treated for a phobia for snakes on tv with EFT by Paul Mckenna and she said that she felt pressure to say that it helped her phobia even though it didnt, because the cameras were on and it would have made him look stupid if she didn't go along with it. So I wouldnt trust tv testimonials.

Still I think for many people it is worth trying simply because it is easy and free. If Jeremy starts to ask for money then we have the right to hunt him down and burn him at the stake.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Well said Pablo! In hindsight, yes perhaps the subject title was fairly strong. A lesson learnt


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## walkingdead (Jan 28, 2006)

Methusala, thank you for bringing the voice of reason to this post. It takes courage to do that. Thank you.


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## suzy456 (Mar 28, 2006)

I don't want to get involved in this argument but I would like to mention a couple of things. My husband is a TFT trainer, trained by roger callahan the founder of it. He is trained as a trainer and practitioner but not for the voice technology as the training is soo expensive! I did hours and hours of tapping using the voice technology with a guy called chris milbank on the phone, and i have to say it was amazing. After one of the sessions I started to get reality back but it went away again, but still those few seconds were bliss! The tapping got rid of almost all my emotional problem from my whole life. I tapped on almost everything I could remember. The only thing that it couln't get rid of was my dp.

As part of my husbands training he was entitled to free phone sessions using "voice technology" with roger callahan and so I used a couple of the sessions but they were unsuccessful in curing my DP. Tapping really works for me, but doesn't work as much on my husband. They say that if the body has toxins it can stop it working on some people.

The difference between EFT and TFT is that EFT taps on all the points in a sequence and and TFT is tapping on a few points in different orders for specific problems.

My husband has a very high success rate with his clients for example cured someones IBS in a two hour session, cured someones fear of flying in 2 sessions, cures some guy's phobia of speaking to women in one session and within a week he got a girlfriend. And as for me I can say for example if I am feeling nervous about something and he tells me where to tap and the nerves dissapear instantly. Its mad! we also use it on our children. All it does is alter the body's neurolgical response to a problem by changing the flow of energy in the body via the meridians. Also there are no side effects whatsoever.

As for the people who don't believe in it whould it hurt you to try it out? My husband has had many clients who didn't believe it would work and who don't believe in meridian therapy, but got cured.

By the way you don't need a practitioner to do this. All you need is a list of the different places to tap and you can do it yourself for free.

Suzy


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## freesong (Dec 26, 2005)

Thanks for the information Suzy. This treatment is relatively new to me but I do believe there may be validity. I am going to research still but it makes some sense based upon some study into acupuncture and massage. I would like to add that in thinking about what both Meth and Walking were doing, I kind of can see both sides. They are caring that none of us waste our money on something that has been shown to be ineffective by studies or clinical trials. There is nothing wrong with warnings but I was tired the day I read this and I got irritated because there was so much back and forth. I believe that warnings are a good idea but if others wish to try then so be it. I am being simplistic. I guess what I am trying to convey is that we all have a right to our opinions and if someone is over-charging for a service then that should be brought to everyone's attention. I have asked a friend and he said the same thing, Suzie. We can read books on this and do this for ourselves and there are plenty of practitioners that do not charge so much for this service. Thanks for sharing, freesong


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## noobiedoobiedo (May 2, 2006)

Repeat after me : *www.sciencedaily.com is my friend*

http://www.sciencedaily.com/search/?keyword=acupuncture

Short list of results for a search on "acupuncture"

*Acupuncture Cuts Tension Headache Rates By Almost Half (August 1, 2005)* ? Acupuncture is an effective treatment for tension headache, cutting rates for sufferers by almost half, shows a study on bmj.com this week. ...

*Acupuncture Better Than Drugs Alone For Osteoarthritis Of The Knee (November 24, 2004)* ? Acupuncture, as a complementary therapy to drug treatment for osteoarthritis of the knee, is more effective than drug treatment alone, find researchers from Spain in the latest issue of BMJ.

*Acupuncture Relieves Pelvic Pain During Pregnancy (April 5, 2005)* ? Acupuncture and strengthening exercises help relieve pelvic girdle pain during pregnancy and are effective complements to standard treatment, finds a study published online by the British Medical Journal.

*Acupuncture Treatment No More Effective Than Sham Treatment In Reducing Migraine Headaches (May 4, 2005)* ? Migraine patients who received true acupuncture had no decrease in headaches as compared with those who received sham acupuncture treatment, according to a study in the May 4 issue of JAMA.

*Acupuncture Is Promising Treatment For Cocaine Addiction, Yale Researchers Find (August 15, 2000)* ? In the first such finding from a controlled study, Yale researchers have successfully used acupuncture to treat cocaine addiction, a disorder for which there are few effective treatments.

*University Of Vermont Study First To Confirm Acupuncture's Effect (November 26, 2001)* ? Previous studies on acupuncture have focused on the ancient art�s therapeutic effects, but now � for the first time � there is scientific evidence of the response of body tissue to acupuncture needling. Conducted at the University of Vermont College of Medicine, the two-year study takes a major step towards establishing credibility among Western medical practitioners for the therapy long considered �alternative.� > full story

*Acupuncture Reduces Pain After Breast Surgery (October 16, 2001)* ? Acupuncture is just as effective as the leading medication used to reduce nausea and vomiting after major breast surgery, according to a new study conducted by Duke University Medical Center researchers. The 5,000-year-old Chinese practice also decreased postoperative pain in these women, they report.

*Acupuncture Reduces Nausea And Vomiting, Pain After Major Breast Surgery (September 22, 2004)* ? In the first such clinical trial of its kind, researchers at Duke University Medical Center have found that acupuncture is more effective at reducing nausea and vomiting after major breast surgery than the leading medication. > full story

*New Report Indicates Acupuncture Provides Relief For Sufferers Of Dry Mouth (June 17, 2005)* ? The emergence of acupuncture is allowing some patients to relieve or significantly reduce dry mouth's debilitating effects, according to a report in the May/June 2005 issue of General Dentistry, the Academy of General Dentistry's (AGD) clinical, peer-reviewed journal.

*All Placebos Not Created Alike: In A Trial Of Sham Acupuncture Vs. Oral Placebo Pill, Patients Experienced Greater Pain Reduction From Sham Device (February 8, 2006)* ? While researchers usually use placebos in clinical trials to test the effectiveness of a new treatment, this trial pitted one placebo against another. "It's upside down research," said Ted Kaptchuk, assistant professor of medicine and associate director of the Division for Research and Education in Complementary and Integrative Medical Therapies and the Osher Institute at Harvard Medical School. "We investigated whether a sham acupuncture device has a greater placebo effect than an inert pill."[/b]

Have a nice day.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

i think the important thing to take from this thread,from both advocates and skeptics of eft is this,
1for the skeptics,be less black and white in your attitude to new treatments.give anything a try and continue if it is helping and stop if it is not working.most people that are advocating alternative treatments are well meaning.i used to be afraid of trying new treatments cause if they didnt work it would be one less option left for recovery.very silly indeed.

2.for the advocates of eft or any other treatment for that matter is that the world dont beat to one drum.it could be very successful for yourself,but not suit others.so there is no single 100% effective teratment for any psychiatric disorder.some have a better strike rate than others but at the end of the day its down to the individual.

so try it.if it helps you gr8,if not,dont panic.walk awat from it with the attitude that you are doing your best to get better and there are countless other options availible to try.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Unfortunately the topic has gotten off topic slightly. My aim here was to *offer* an opportunity for people to try out EFT with some outside help and see what the effects were on DP. What I never did was try and push people to participate, I only stood up to completely ridiculous and untrue statements about the technique. I am all for people making their own mind up, but that is especially hard when people are totally writing it off as a "quack, pyramid scheme". All I wanted was people to make an informed decision for themselves, and not an uninformed decision based on ridiculous and untrue claims.
I really think we should leave this thread to the archives now. 

Jeremy


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Oh and if people think energy fields are "quack". I would recommend reading this. It is based on theories of a well known scientist. You might know him. His name is Albert Einstein.

EFT should have been discovered 50 years ago and should be as common today as aspirin. Yet, despite its unmistakable clinical results, it still meets with resistance from certain scientists and from others who cling to conventional methods.

I don't know about you but I learned in my high school chemistry class in 1958 that the building blocks of ALL matter (including human bodies) are ATOMS. This was hardly new....even at the time. No one disputes this fact. Nor does anyone dispute that atoms are made of ENERGY.

Einstein further emphasized this point with his Theory of Relativity wherein he developed the famous formula....

Energy = Mass times the speed of light squared

In simple terms this means that physical matter (including the human body) is MADE OF ENERGY. Thus, even though the human body may appear to be solid, its foundation is made of energy.

This simple fact is one of the most universally agreed upon findings in the scientific world. To my knowledge, not one scientist anywhere disagrees with it. It's acceptability ranks right up there with the laws of gravity.

However, for reasons known only to the cosmos, the Western healing sciences have....ignored it.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

jeremy said:


> I don't know about you but I learned in my high school chemistry class in 1958 that the building blocks of ALL matter (including human bodies) are ATOMS. This was hardly new....even at the time. No one disputes this fact. Nor does anyone dispute that atoms are made of ENERGY.
> 
> Einstein further emphasized this point with his Theory of Relativity wherein he developed the famous formula....
> 
> ...


That is not what the equation says at all. I take it you'll argue with us about it, trying to convince us that the equals sign means "is" rather than "can be converted to", but if what you're passing off has that notion as a foundation then the whole of it is nonsense.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

No what I found interesting about that was that if all matter (including human bodies) are ATOMS, and ATOMS are made of energy, then surely humans must be made of energy? That just makes logical sense does it not?


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

jeremy said:


> No what I found interesting about that was that if all matter (including human bodies) are ATOMS, and ATOMS are made of energy, then surely humans must be made of energy? That just makes logical sense does it not?


Einstein's equation does not tell us that atoms are made of energy. Neither have you linked this (now shown to be false) notion to your EFT theory.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subatomic_particle

So you are saying that atoms are not energy? I would love to read a scientific paper backing this up.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

jeremy said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subatomic_particle


OK, so I supposed you'll tell us how these articles support your assertion rather than just implying they somehow do and running away from the responsibility of proving it?



> So you are saying that atoms are not energy? I would love to read a scientific paper backing this up.


You're trying to get me to prove a negative, a false rhetorical tactic. I don't have to, because you have not proven that atoms are energy. But I will anyways.

There is a paper published in 1905 where Einstein explained this equation you cited, "Ist die Tr?gheit eines K?rpers von seinem Energieinhalt abh?ngig?" ("Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy Content?"). In it, he said "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c?". Here, mass is shown to be converted into energy, it is not shown to be energy already (otherwise, mass would not be shown to be diminishing when converted into energy).


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Putting Einstein's theory aside.

Matter (Us) = Atoms

Atoms = Subatomic Particles

Subatomic Particles = Energy

http://wwwa.britannica.com/eb/article-9108593

ergo. Matter (Us) = Energy

Thats logical in my eyes.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

jeremy said:


> Subatomic Particles = Energy


From the Britannica article:



> any of various self-contained units of matter or energy.


A distinction is still made in the very source you cite. This is the second time you've been caught red-handed trying to pass off a link as evidence of something while not explaining how it supports your position, and actually having it not support your position.

You really should just leave this board and quit trying to decieve people.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

Science...Scientists have been wrong before you know. And I can tell you a thing or two about professional healthcare and their unwillingness to try alternative methods to cure cancer and AIDS. I am looking EFT up on the internet and learn what it exactly is. If you can do it for yourself and it is free, then you just might try it. What have you got to lose? Be critical, but be open minded as well.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

Luka said:


> Science...Scientists have been wrong before you know.


And a scientist will be the first person to tell you that. Science is tentative, transparent to scrutiny, and open to challenge. Our guest Jeremy doesn't seem to be as open to such criticism, seeing as he still has this flawed interpretation of Einstein's equation on the front page of his web site despite all evidence to the contrary, some coming from Einstein himself. You can see for yourself under the heading "The scientifics behind Meridian Energy Therapies": http://www.tapforhealth.com



> And I can tell you a thing or two about professional healthcare and their unwillingness to try alternative methods to cure cancer and AIDS.


Right, of course. Probably because these generally haven't met the rigors of the scientific method.



> If you can do it for yourself and it is free, then you just might try it. What have you got to lose?


Evidently our guest Jeremy is a bit afraid of what might happen due to his disclaimers on his web site.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

(Message deleted)


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

(Message deleted)


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