# Dont think ill ever feel like a "normal" person ever again...



## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

Hi everyone, i am concerned and could use some reasurrance on whats going on and this community seems to understand these things more than others so here we go.
My dissociation started 2 years ago cause after someone close to me died, i naturally started pondering the "big questions" and those existential and philosophical ideas threw me into a dissociative state. They started small like "whats the point?" "why am i alive?" "why is anyone alive?" then when the dissociation started i had all those horrible thoughts like "how am i existing" "nothing actually exists" "i might be in a dream or coma or dead" "nothing feels real anymore, was anything ever real to begin with?" stuff like that...i had horrible, horrible anxiety, it was crippling, i couldnt leave my own room without fearing the worst and it was CONSTANT. Every second of the day feeling disconnected and i didnt even beleive it was dissociation for a while cause it felt so unimaginably strange, i felt it was more than mental or something. Eventually though, the dissociation got better after about a year and now its more lowkey an comes more in waves when im stressed.

But i want to skip to my biggest problem right now. I have extremely concerning thoughts that life and the universe exists for no reason and nothing actually matters. I researched this type of problem and i dont mean to self diagnose but im pretty sure i have existential depression since i can barely function as a person cause i believe everything is for not and means nothing. I think i became a true nihilist for a little while. I cant see the point in things like happiness or doing morally right things because i dont see why anything is alive, it makes no sense. But at the same time, i still have some connection to my emotions and i dont want to hurt people. I was always a very morally grounded person my whole life and very emotional. A month or so ago was when this became so bad i got physically sick every five minutes and was very suicidal. Ive never been suicidal before. It got so bad, i wasnt eating, barely drinking, not keeping up on hygiene, i literally would get sick to my stomach every five minutes and throw up constantly, even with nothing in my stomach because i kept thinking every action i did was pointless. Wether it be talking to someone, watching a video, petting my cat, going to the bathroom, all of it seems pointless. Life seems so absurd and pointless to me. Then, i kinda had a "breakthrough" that only lasted for a few weeks after my family and friends convinced me not to do anything to myself, and after calling many hotlines, i felt less alone i guess, it took a while but i temporarily anchored myself to the idea that "theres definently a reason for everything to exist, theres gotta be, it wouldnt make sense otherwise" and shortly after i started thinking like i used to and i went on a 2 week vacation with my friends. During that time, i felt pretty grounded in the idea but i still am a little dissociated most of the time, it doesnt bother me since its more a backround feeling but when im stressed, it boils over and its awful. Now, im back home and been for a few days. Im in the middle of moving with my family to a different state so that might be stressful on me but i realized im sinking back into that hole where nothing matters, like i just kept it at bay. It feels like its some ultimate truth to our existance and im just running away from it. At the same time, i feel like there has to be a point, one that we just cant comprehend. I feel disgusted that i exist at all because i dont know why any of its here. One minute, i can have fun and try to think positive and the next, i wonder why im even trying to have fun or live at all. I have or used to have dreams and goals in life and now all of that feels irrelevent. I dont see the point in a relationship even though i know emotionally that i want one. I am at a point where pleasure doesnt mean anything to me at all yet im still capable of feeling it. "My emotions mean nothing at all. Nothing means anything at all..."

Does or has anyone on here ever dealt with these types of thoughts? Did you ever get over them and if you did, how did you do it or what changed your thought process? I try guided meditations alot to help put more positive thoughts in my head but im not sure if itll keep working. Thanks for reading and for any imput or advice you have to give.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

> I have extremely concerning thoughts that life and the universe exists for no reason and nothing actually matters.


Well, if you research evolution, you'll find that this is factually the case. We exist simply to survive and spread our genes, not for some God-given purpose. I live with this knowledge, yet it doesn't really bother me. If anything, it comforts me. I know I don't have live in fear of some religious nonsense like eternal damnation.



> I cant see the point in things like happiness or doing morally right things because i dont see why anything is alive, it makes no sense.


Why not? We are conscious observers, and our experience matters. Would you argue that our experience of suffering and pleasure is made insignificant just because we don't have some higher-order purpose in life than to preserve our genes? I sure wouldn't. And there are also practical considerations as to why you wouldn't act immorally. Immoral acts are often also criminal, and you'll have to suffer punishment if you are to perpetrate them. You probably don't want to take that punishment if you can help it.

Why does there *need* to be a point? That's what I don't understand. I quite happily live with the knowledge that I'm a lump of atoms configured in a particular order with no purpose beyond survival. The thing is, it's always been like that. It was that way before I even knew about it, and it's going to continue being that way whether I try to delude myself or not. So I might as well accept it. It doesn't bother me.


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

@PerfectFifth,

I hear what your saying. What u say makes alot of sense. The reason i feel there needs to be a point to it all is because if there isnt, that means everything we do in our lives doesnt actually matter, all my dreams and goals and wish to help others is for nothing and eventually ill die and everyone who knew me or the things i did will die and ill be forgotten, most people are forgotten except by the people who knew them who then eventually die so i dont understand why life keeps going and reproducing toward some seemingly no end goal in mind because it logically makes no sense to me why life is even here at all and i feel like there should be some reason behind it all, maybe just one we cannot comprehend. But at the same time, if there is one, it feels like some absurd game and i dont want to be a part of it when i get real depressed.


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## seven (Oct 3, 2015)

I kinda stopped beliving in evolution theory. Makes me feel worse. Beliving in God helped me.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

Emptyflask said:


> @PerfectFifth,
> 
> I hear what your saying. What u say makes alot of sense. The reason i feel there needs to be a point to it all is because if there isnt, that means everything we do in our lives doesnt actually matter, all my dreams and goals and wish to help others is for nothing and eventually ill die and everyone who knew me or the things i did will die and ill be forgotten, most people are forgotten except by the people who knew them who then eventually die so i dont understand why life keeps going and reproducing toward some seemingly no end goal in mind because it logically makes no sense to me why life is even here at all and i feel like there should be some reason behind it all, maybe just one we cannot comprehend. But at the same time, if there is one, it feels like some absurd game and i dont want to be a part of it when i get real depressed.


Our lives do matter, but only in a natural sense. Our actions matter because they affect the experience of other conscious beings. Sensory experience is significant. This is sufficient to me to see my actions as mattering.

I think you need to try and start living more in the moment. You're essentially always living in the day when you die with that mindset. Yeah, this stuff won't matter to you anymore after you die, but it matters right now, and it matters to others as well. Do you not see significance in that? I think there's plenty of significance in the present moment and what impacts our actions have on the world around us right now.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

> I kinda stopped beliving in evolution theory. Makes me feel worse. Beliving in God helped me.


That's finding comfort in a delusion, but whatever floats your boat. Evolution is just about an established a theory as is the fact that earth is round and orbits the sun.


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

@PerfectFifth

I honestly dont really know why im trying to find a higher purpose to it all, i guess its because the thoughts of death and mortality were what made me think deeper about it in the first place. I was always extremely afraid of the idea of death untill recently, im concerned about the fact that after i became suicidal for a little while, my fear of death completely diminished. I actually found comfort in it because if death is just nothing and you have no awareness anymore, it means i wont be thinking anymore which is comforting to me in some twisted way. The reason i see this as a problem is because i dont feel the need to grieve loved ones who have passed because of it when i feel like thats what i should be doing. If theres nothing after life, i should be sad for my loved ones who've passed but i cant bring myself to feel that way most of yhe time. On one hand i feel their deaths were unjustified and they suffered way too much and shouldnt be dead and sometimes on rare occassions i feel sad about it and on the other hand i feel like it doesnt matter anyway because life itself doesnt matter and their lives didnt matter and mine doesnt either. Its just so unfair that we live such finite lives and that eventually everyone and everything we love will eventually disapear and that theres no real point to any of it to begin with.


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## Phantasm (Jul 16, 2017)

Hi, Emptyflask,

I think it's not uncommon here for people to get caught up worrying about these big questions, but I tend to think they are like projections of things that are happening on a personal level. We worry about the nature of everything because we ourselves are in pain. Some people say they don't feel anything, but numbness also has a quality and could also be called an emotional state. Perspective is everything. We can lose it or may never have had a healthy one, depending on the course of our lives. Feeling that life is meaningless is something that someone suffering with depression experiences, for example. They may have emotional issues, such as guilt, shame, or anger, that for whatever reason haven't been able to run their course. You've mentioned suffering loss and bereavement. For someone who is happy and healthy, life is a wonder and a miracle and carries intrinsic meaning. Did you say on another thread you are seeing a therapist? I would try to find out and work on why it is you may be feeling depressed and if you can make headway there you may find that these big questions won't matter anymore.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

> If theres nothing after life, i should be sad for my loved ones who've passed but i cant bring myself to feel that way most of yhe time.


Why should you be more sad for them if there's nothing after death? Isn't that a good thing? It means they won't be burning in hell as we speak. It means they're peacefully not existing, just like before they were born. I've only existed for 26 years, and I have *not* existed for an eternity prior to that. I don't recall that being such a bad thing-duh, I didn't exist.

If you think about it, there isn't really a rational reason to assign death such a negative value-other than for what possible grief your close ones will have to suffer upon your death due to emotional attachment, because obviously their experience matters. We're afraid of death because that fear has been programmed into us. It's part of our survival instinct that we don't want to die. But if you really think about it, why is death so bad? Being dead means not existing, not being here to experience any of the suffering of life that it quite consistently brings in spades, though it also means not being here to experience any of the good experiences that life sometimes offers. But that won't matter if you don't exist.


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

PerfectFifth said:


> Why should you be more sad for them if there's nothing after death? Isn't that a good thing? It means they won't be burning in hell as we speak. It means they're peacefully not existing, just like before they were born. I've only existed for 26 years, and I have *not* existed for an eternity prior to that. I don't recall that being such a bad thing-duh, I didn't exist.


I feel it makes it sadder because that means they dont exist anymore and although that may mean its more peaceful because they are no longer aware, i feel im not doing their memory justice by not being sad for them not being here anymore. I feel they deserve my grief for them because we loved eachother and not being sad feels wrong.


PerfectFifth said:


> If you think about it, there isn't really a rational reason to assign death such a negative value-other than for what possible grief your close ones will have to suffer upon your death due to emotional attachment, because obviously their experience matters. We're afraid of death because that fear has been programmed into us. It's part of our survival instinct that we don't want to die. But if you really think about it, why is death so bad?


See this is where im confused because if death isnt really so bad because it simply means to not exist then why does life as a whole fear it and try to avoid it at all costs if its not even that bad? I see the value in living, even just in a natural sense but the fact that we wonder there may be no reason for it to exist at all makes me wonder why life wants to be here when theres no reason at all, like even microbes like bacteria have this need to survive and reproduce even tho there may be no reason in doing so (that we know of at least) if this is the case, it seems so stupid to even exist at all if its for no reason than to just exist.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

Emptyflask said:


> I feel it makes it sadder because that means they dont exist anymore and although that may mean its more peaceful because they are no longer aware, i feel im not doing their memory justice by not being sad for them not being here anymore. I feel they deserve my grief for them because we loved eachother and not being sad feels wrong.
> See this is where im confused because if death isnt really so bad because it simply means to not exist then why does life as a whole fear it and try to avoid it at all costs if its not even that bad? I see the value in living, even just in a natural sense but the fact that we wonder there may be no reason for it to exist at all makes me wonder why life wants to be here when theres no reason at all, like even microbes like bacteria have this need to survive and reproduce even tho there may be no reason in doing so (that we know of at least) if this is the case, it seems so stupid to even exist at all if its for no reason than to just exist.


Because that's how the universe works. Living beings are concerned with their own survival, or the survival of their genes. Just because we can't find grounds for believing any deeper meaning than survival doesn't mean there's inherently anything stupid about "just surviving". It only seems stupid and insufficient to us because we've steeped ourselves in all kinds of fanciful metaphysical notions throughout the ages. The universe isn't concerned with what is or isn't stupid to us. We need to reconcile our attitudes towards the universe with what's empirically proven about it, not the other way around-that is, we should avoid in an act of self-deception fabricating some deeper (objective) meaning and purpose than there is just to satisfy our deep-seated psychological needs.

Not everything can be satisfying to us psychologically, but that doesn't mean we should fool ourselves and contrive psychologically satisfying alternatives for every inconvenient truth. We are given to this sort of thing; just look at, for instance, the topics of climate change, death, and free will.


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## Phantasm (Jul 16, 2017)

There's no rules to grieving. You will do so in your own way and in your own time. Having preconceptions about how this should be done actually gets in the way. Don't attack yourself with ideas about what you think you are supposed to do.


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## Dancing_master (Jun 17, 2019)

are you emotionally numb?


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

PerfectFifth said:


> Because that's how the universe works. Living beings are concerned with their own survival, or the survival of their genes. Just because we can't find grounds for believing any deeper meaning than survival doesn't mean there's inherently anything stupid about "just surviving". It only seems stupid and insufficient to us because we've steeped ourselves in all kinds of fanciful metaphysical notions throughout the ages. The universe isn't concerned with what is or isn't stupid to us. We need to reconcile our attitudes towards the universe with what's empirically proven about it, not the other way around-that is, we should avoid in an act of self-deception fabricating some deeper (objective) meaning and purpose than there is just to satisfy our deep-seated psychological needs.
> 
> Not everything can be satisfying to us psychologically, but that doesn't mean we should fool ourselves and contrive psychologically satisfying alternatives for every inconvenient truth. We are given to this sort of thing; just look at, for instance, the topics of climate change, death, and free will.


You say you live with this knowledge and belief that we simply exist to survive and that is sufficent enough for you that there isnt a ultimate divine purpose to everything so i have to ask. Were you ever in the state i am about this currently? Being completely distraught and hopeless and not seeing the point to any of your actions? If u were, how long did it take you to be happy and comfortable with the idea? Do you have full access to your emotions and live similarly to before you realized these things? I feel like i can never come out of this as a happy person. I feel that happiness is equally as meaningless as the state im in right now but somehow keep striving for happiness...maybe its just instinct, i dont know.


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

Phantasm said:


> There's no rules to grieving. You will do so in your own way and in your own time. Having preconceptions about how this should be done actually gets in the way. Don't attack yourself with ideas about what you think you are supposed to do.


 thank you for that. I guess it is kind of inhibiting my grieving process.


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

Dancing_master said:


> are you emotionally numb?


I kind of go in and out of it but usually i feel pretty numb because usually i feel there is no point to anything or feeling anything.


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## PerfectFifth (May 2, 2016)

Emptyflask said:


> You say you live with this knowledge and belief that we simply exist to survive and that is sufficent enough for you that there isnt a ultimate divine purpose to everything so i have to ask. Were you ever in the state i am about this currently? Being completely distraught and hopeless and not seeing the point to any of your actions? If u were, how long did it take you to be happy and comfortable with the idea? Do you have full access to your emotions and live similarly to before you realized these things? I feel like i can never come out of this as a happy person. I feel that happiness is equally as meaningless as the state im in right now but somehow keep striving for happiness...maybe its just instinct, i dont know.


Hmm, not at all. I was always at ease with this knowledge. Some years ago, I used to believe in fate, that my destiny was predetermined (in supernatural terms, that is). Then at a later time, I started studying philosophy, evolutionary biology, etc, and I came to the conclusion that there most likely isn't any such purpose. I changed my convictions in light of this new knowledge. That's how I always operate, anyway: if there's evidence to the contrary, I have to change my attitudes and beliefs to accord with that knowledge. I can't allow myself to live in a world that is inconsistent with the truth, a world based on self-deception.

I don't know, I guess I don't stress about these things because I know things are such as they are, and all I can really do is accept that. It's infinitely better to me than concocting some sort of fictional alternative to myself and just refusing to accept what clearly is. But ultimate I am just lucky in this department. If you have existential problems, then you have existential problems. It's not your fault that these questions cause you distress. All I can say is that I hope you can come to terms with the fact that there probably isn't any deeper meaning. I don't think it's a bad thing, really. Why does it have to be?

Life to me is a journey of discovery and learning, and I embrace knowledge, no matter if it's inconvenient, something that isn't how I'd ideally like it to be.


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## Emptyflask (Jun 29, 2019)

PerfectFifth said:


> Hmm, not at all. I was always at ease with this knowledge. Some years ago, I used to believe in fate, that my destiny was predetermined (in supernatural terms, that is). Then at a later time, I started studying philosophy, evolutionary biology, etc, and I came to the conclusion that there most likely isn't any such purpose. I changed my convictions in light of this new knowledge. That's how I always operate, anyway: if there's evidence to the contrary, I have to change my attitudes and beliefs to accord with that knowledge. I can't allow myself to live in a world that is inconsistent with the truth, a world based on self-deception.
> 
> I don't know, I guess I don't stress about these things because I know things are such as they are, and all I can really do is accept that. It's infinitely better to me than concocting some sort of fictional alternative to myself and just refusing to accept what clearly is. But ultimate I am just lucky in this department. If you have existential problems, then you have existential problems. It's not your fault that these questions cause you distress. All I can say is that I hope you can come to terms with the fact that there probably isn't any deeper meaning. I don't think it's a bad thing, really. Why does it have to be?
> 
> Life to me is a journey of discovery and learning, and I embrace knowledge, no matter if it's inconvenient, something that isn't how I'd ideally like it to be.


I feel like im a nihilist. Maybe if i werent so messed up and depressed, id feel differently. Like even if theres a higher power, theres still nothing to answer why the higher power exists in the first place or if its just the universe, theres no reason for it to just suddenly exist either. If something created it, then what created it, and what created that, etc...So basically i keep feeling like theres a big hole in everything. Like i think eventually i can adjust to the fact that we are all living creatures and something in us wants us all to live and i might stop labeling happiness as meaningless but i also dont know if ill ever feel comfortable with this knowledge or idea that theres no real point to everything.


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## Dancing_master (Jun 17, 2019)

Emptyflask said:


> I feel like im a nihilist. Maybe if i werent so messed up and depressed, id feel differently. Like even if theres a higher power, theres still nothing to answer why the higher power exists in the first place or if its just the universe, theres no reason for it to just suddenly exist either. If something created it, then what created it, and what created that, etc...So basically i keep feeling like theres a big hole in everything. Like i think eventually i can adjust to the fact that we are all living creatures and something in us wants us all to live and i might stop labeling happiness as meaningless but i also dont know if ill ever feel comfortable with this knowledge or idea that theres no real point to everything.


I been there. it prob is due to depression. The only times i had this super deep thinking was when I am really depressed. oh well... idk how to get out of it other than not get depressed and start to enjoy something...


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