# Does anyone have paranoid thoughts?



## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

I'm almost embarassed to post this but sometimes in the midst of my worst anxiety/DP/DR I start having really crazy "what if" thoughts.. like "what if this is a dream and I can literally walk through people around me since they are not real" or "what if people are against me" or "what if people want to harm me and I can't trust them".... I know these thoughts are JUST thoughts and I don't they're not true but I can't seem to shake them off and can't seem to be scared of them. I know that paranoia is a sign of some mental illnesses and I'm truly scared of it... I mean , do I accept insane thoughts such as "what if everyone around me is an alien in some nightmare" or is it a sign that I should go seek help now?


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

I was talking with my social worker a couple of weeks ago about paranoid thoughts simliar to what yoour saying, and she says it just shows that I have an imagintive mind and that is why I always think thughts like that, I think as long as you don't actually believe without any evidence any paranoid thoughts that you have that you can maintain your santity, I just see paranoid thoughts as white noise, like static on the radio of the mind


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Nope, no one else has that. It's just you.

evil grin

(thought I'd provide your worst fear so you could have a little catharsis)

I had those thoughts all the time, and I know for a FACT that many people on this board have them because I get PM's about them alot! Most people are not wiling to even admit to those thoughts, because they are so afraid of sounding truly insane.

Listen to me: you are making yourself MISERABLE. However, you will NEVER succeed in driving yourself into madness. That is not how the mind works. You can however, drive yourself deeper and deeper and deeper still into a morbid terror of insanity. Over time, you can become so afraid of your every thought, and terrified of your every impulse, that you cannot trust yourself to have one moment without self-monitoring.

You will have spiraled back into self so deep and so firmly that you will believe you ARE insane. However, you will not be. You will "merely" be an obsessive anxiety patient who has painted himself into such a tight corner that his life has become utterly horrible.

At that point, you cannot just turn around and say "oh, okay...now I get it." and bounce back into normal thoughts. You will have ingrained a pattern of cognitive experience that RULES you and it will take you a long damn time to work your way out.

Got it?

Read this post again.

REALLY got it?

Love ya,
and ONLY because I recognize myself am I being so tough on you!!!!
J


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

what Janine said


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

God, Janine... what would I do without this board?=)

I think it's so important to hear that others might have the same thoughts because I felt like I was THE only person in the world who thought that I made up things around myself, that I was in some nightmare or that I shouldn't trust people etc.

I think I'll just let myself think whatever... and not react to it with fear...

I did take your advice to just live, interact with people and not turn inwards so much so hopefully I'll be able to beat this horrible sensation and be as wise as you are=)

Thanks and love ya!
I'm truly truly thankful for your posts and this board.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Ahhh, Tidal, you talk a good game, but I suspect there are sneaky little thoughts lurking in there somewhere, grin.

You said that it's "good to know other people also have these thoughts, so I don't think it's just me."

DANGER signal, my friend. Yes, it's good to know that basically any horrible idea you can dream up has already been dreamed up by some other neurotic, but there is a trap.

What you need to do now is TURN around on a dime and try as hard as possible to NOT need to compare your own bizarre mind to anyone else's. Instead, what often happens is that the person gets addicted to being reassured.

You know the cell phone commercial with the guy in the field, testing the sound clarity...."can ya hear me now?" "....can ya hear me now?" "how about now? can ya hear me now?"

There is a dp/obsessive version too.

"how about THIS crazy thought? Do you have this one?"

"but wait, here's my WORST thought...am I crazy now?"

"how about now? am I crazy now?"

Got it?

grin,
one who has BEEN there, 
J


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Ok Janine, now I trust you more than ever. I actually was doing that...trying to get reassurance for each and every thought that I had to try to see if it's "normal". How would you know that?=) Your post made me speechless ,lol=)


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2004)

Dear Tidal, I've the same thoughts you have, and I'm sure many others have...welcome to the Obsessive's Club :wink: 
I have some advices for you (actually, they're also for myself!)
1- Focus your attention outward...on your life, your hobbies etc. I know it's difficult, but listen to this: I always try to scare myself and obsess myself with absurd thoughts...obviously, all the ones that involve the question: "I've thought a crazy thought, so am I going crazy?"...well, there are two things that blow away all obsessions I have (at least for a while!); they are:going to the disco and dancing, and the friday evening, when I go to a club where there's a girl I like a lot...well, all the time when I'm in the car driving from my house to this club, I think: "What if tonight I'll not be able to push away my obsessive thoughts and maybe I lose control in front of this girl?"...well, it never happened, but even if it will happen, I know that it's not for some kind of psychosis but for my ability to ruin everything with bad thoughts; ok, I go to this club, and when I see this girl, I become the Tau I was 3 years ago...maybe even stronger!
So: go out, try to relax even if you are SURE you'll not be able to, and live even you think crazy thoughts.
2-I don't know if you do it...but if you are like me, please, don't read psychosis symptoms on the net...why? Well, here's what I typically do: 
Phase 1:Oh my god, I feel anxious and detached (of course, I'm always checkin' my thoughts instead of living my life)
Phase 2:Why I feel so bad?Let's do a search on the net (bad choice...)
Phase 3:What would be the worst think that can happen me?Hummm...psychosis!Well, let's read psychosis symptoms, this way I'll be sure I don't have them.
Phase 4:Lol, what a stupid I was, these symptoms are very different from how I feel! (Imagine, I was even laughing when I read some paranoid thoughts, thinking "Ah, only a really crazy person can ever think this crap!")
Phase 5: What if I'm going to have these thoughts and this is only the beginning of the illness?
Phase 6: I must not think these thoughts, I must not think these thoughts..."What if people is out to get me?"...damn I thought it!!!
Phase 7: "What if people is out to get me?"..."Why that person looked at me?"..."How could this person know I've been to the disco yesterday evening?" (And of course, also sadistically trying to make myself believe the thoughts in order to know if I can become psychotic...which is also part of the obsession).
Scary, uh? And the worst part is: they become automatic after a while. Just like a learned behaviour.
3-Listen to what Janine says, she knows these "thought processes" very well from what I've read...and even if she doesn't know me, she has said some things that I've never considered before and that are helping a lot!

Hope I've been of help!
Take care.

Tau


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## kenc127 (Aug 10, 2004)

I have those thoughts to from time to time as well. Just as long as you don't start living your life based on this paranoia, you can probably just giggle it off with a little bit of reasoning. What-if thoughts are classic anxiety symptoms. In fact, I'm looking at the GAD pamphlet right now, and it says, "Do you have what-if thoughts? You may need Paxil." 
Don't worry about it.


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## Beth (Sep 27, 2004)

I don't normally, but in really stressful situations, like after a bad argument, I have been really convinced I was going schizophrenic because I was stuck with loads of these thoughts, mostly about everyone wanting me to feel the way I did, wanting to make me go insane. I've once been in a state where I started actually hallucinating along with paranoia and was desperate to go to a hospital, but I eventually came down enough to sleep, and coped with pretty severe dr for the few days after, and it's never happened again. Has anyone else had just one-off episodes of something really intensely weird or scary? Or am I going to develop schizophrenia? (Last bit a joke, mostly).


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

ive had all sorts of thoughts, existential ( not as much anymore), suicidal ( these occur more often) and even thoughts about hurting other people which probably bother me the most because im not really a violent person at all. Its ironic because i always say that i have respect for human life & life on earth, like i don't even like to kill insects, yet i feel at times that i don't have any respect or care for my own life.

i dunno


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2004)

kenc127 said:


> I have those thoughts to from time to time as well. Just as long as you don't start living your life based on this paranoia, you can probably just giggle it off with a little bit of reasoning. What-if thoughts are classic anxiety symptoms. In fact, I'm looking at the GAD pamphlet right now, and it says, "Do you have what-if thoughts? You may need Paxil."
> Don't worry about it.


kenc127, I do have pseudo-paranoid and pseudo-delusional thoughts ("pseudo" because I know they're crap and I know they're generated by myself in order to torture myself with what I fear the most), I would ask you...in order for a thought to be obsessional, must it be a "what if" thought? Because I've what-ifs but also "all this world is unreal", " all people are aliens conspiring against me" etc. ...of course, all these are stupid thoughts, but I'm worried that they're not what-ifs hence they may be delusional and I'll go crazy


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2004)

Listen up Obsessional Ones:

I used to believe I had created this entire world.

I believed I was it, all, everything....sort of like the embryo/infant in 2001 A Space Odyssey - One Child, One Thought, ONE BEING...and it was me, and everthing you see and hear and taste and touch was nothing except stuff my brain had invented - the universe was nothing but the contents of a bizarre and sick night dream that had been dreamed up by me.

I was the earth and the wind and the fire. I was the creator and the devil. NOTHING existed beyond my own imagination and nothing had ever existed. Reality was a concoction of my delusions.

If you had hooked me up to a lie detector and asked me if I truly believed that, it would have shown you "yes"

However, I knew not to TELL this kind of thing because I also knew (at the same time) that it sounded crazy. I knew AT THE SAME TIME that my delusions were absurd. And....I still believed them.

That's what dissociation is - a dichotomy between aspects of consciousness. I knew and didn't know at the exact same time.

I KNEW I was insane.
And I knew I only feared it.

I knew nothing in this universe was real and that any second now, like in some sadistic Twilight Zone episode, I would be confronted with this fact in such a way that I would never again be able to forget it.

And I knew that sounded crazy, and I wanted to live in the Real World like a Normal Person....and AT THE SAME TIME I didn't think there was any such place as the real world.

That's what delusions do, my friends. We both know and don't know reality AT THE SAME TIME. And it is as sneaky and quick as mercury, our thoughts will slide and fly faster than any rationalization will EVER be able to protect us from. You cannot FIGURE it out, or outsmart yourself.

Turn away from the delusions. It is your only way out.

Peace,
Janine
the artist formerly known as Creator of the Universe at Large


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

> was the earth and the wind and the fire. I was the creator and the devil. NOTHING existed beyond my own imagination and nothing had ever existed. Reality was a concoction of my delusions.


I had sometimes still have this exact delusion, like sometimes I feel like theres a good and abad me and that I somehow created everything around me, its really annoying to think crazy stuff like that cos it leads to me the conclusion of how can I love myself so much that I actually believe I created everything? I preety much beleive that this delusion was creeated in my mind by drugs, because drugs kind of lift the veil on reality and open new doors in the mind, and some of the doors that you open are preety scary, and some are englighting and you learn about the deepest aspects of the self, though these things are hard to explain, its like having to confront my own mind and the vast winding and complex tunnels that exsist in my subcounious

This quote from howard marks dope stories preety much explains perfectly how I feel when im at the deepest level of this particular delusion

As I exhaled i became terribly afraid , my heart very rapid and strong, palms sweating. a terrible sense of dread and doom filled me- i knew what was happening, i knew i couldn't stop it, but it was so devastating , i was being destroyed - all that was familiar, all refrence points, all identity all viciously shattered in a few seconds. I couldn't even mourn the loss - there was no one left to do the mourning, up,up, out, eyes closed, i am at the speed of light, expanding,expanding,expanding, faster and faster until i become so large that i no longer exsist - my speed is so great that everything has come to a stop - here i gaze upon the entire universe


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

What are you trying to say? Are you saying I have paranoid thoughts!??! Is that what you're trying to tell me??!!

:lol:


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

> What are you trying to say? Are you saying I have paranoid thougths!??! Is that what you're trying to tell me??!!


No, no... that was not at ALL what I was trying to say.

However, in light of your paranoid outburst above, it's become kind of moot anyway.

:twisted:  :lol:


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

double post


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

JanineBaker said:


> > I believed I was it, all, everything....sort of like the embryo/infant in 2001 A Space Odyssey - One Child, One Thought, ONE BEING...and it was me, and everthing you see and hear and taste and touch was nothing except stuff my brain had invented - the universe was nothing but the contents of a bizarre and sick night dream that had been dreamed up by me.
> >
> > I was the earth and the wind and the fire. I was the creator and the devil. NOTHING existed beyond my own imagination and nothing had ever existed. Reality was a concoction of my delusions.
> >
> > ...


How do you know you weren't right?? I have believed the same thing for many years so I'm not so sure it's not true.


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

Serious answer? How do I know? I don't.

However, I don't care anymore.

I work full time and go to school. I am a writer, authored two books and working on a third. I have finally found a psychoanalytic institute where I'm studying that is everything I have ever dreamed of. I adore my classes, love the people, and feel a "thrill" everytime I walk into the building.

We have a major conference coming up in December, and I'm so busy preparing for it, there's barely time to breathe.

I have a great life. A great real life (and I NEVER had a real life I could even stand, let alone adore).

The real world has become so interesting to me now that I have no desire to live inside my own mind anymore.

That's how I know.
Or ... that's why I no longer care.

Love,
J


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

That's a really good answer  I don't know what to say


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

I now kind of regret posting my original message since it's creating so much confusion etc. Janine, I took your advice. When I have these thoughts, I now know that they are JUST thoughts and that I'll accept them and (and I think this is significant) simultaneously engage myself in other things. I used to think that recovery would come from me accepting everything and waiting for a miracle or a day when I'd wake up and be cured. Now I realize that these thoughts are normal and due to introspection in which we all engage. When I try to do things that I truly love, I forget about these paranoid questions and they only come back when I tune into them.

They are just thoughts. I think we all are trying to make sense out of what is happening and we try to go deep into our minds with self-tests, to see if there is an explanation for our condition. However, I think our problem is in the fact that we fear these thoughts. If you look at continental or any other philosophical tradition, these questions have been asked by most of the world renowned thinkers. However, they didn't fear them and they didn't ONLY think about what is real. They were able to function while we get caught in them and question why we have them, what does us having them means etc.

We have to give up the fight, let the thoughts come, not be afraid of them and live our lives... then the thoughts will no longer matter.


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## kenc127 (Aug 10, 2004)

Tau

I think I know where you are going with all of this.
Obsessional thoughts are thoughts you just can't seem to let go of. You realize these thoughts you're having are a form of self punishment, and it is. You would never have them if you didn't look up schizophrenia on the web, I guarantee it. Mentally ill people become preoccupied with their thoughts and *cannot discern * what is true and what is false. You on the other hand clearly *CAN* discern that these thoughts you're having are just 'thoughts' not to be taken anywhere outside the mind, and certainly not lived. Believe me, we all have them. If not paranoid thoughts, then something else.

You cannot convince a mentally ill person their thoughts are false. Schizophrenics think everyone else is insane and that they are normal; that is how convinced they are about their own realities. I used to work at a gas station, and one night a schizophrenic person came in. He was poorly dressed and talking to himself. He was telling me about "the bugs." I asked him, "What bugs?" He said, "The bugs, I was on my way here walking on the freeway and I started sinking into the bugs! They ate my feet and now I'm here. Can I have a hot dog?" No matter what I said to this guy, he thought I was nuts for not seeing "the bugs" because to him, 'the bugs' were real. I said, "Sir, your feet are fine- they are still attached." He didn't believe me. Tau, you are simply scared of where your imagination goes when you get anxious. A few pointers that help A LOT:

1. Stop symptom searching unless of course you want to fuel your fear.
Time spent putting the perfect label on your thoughts is time that could have been spent working toward healing.

2. Get out and spend time with people. Spending time with people is so important because it keeps your mid flowing with the rest of the world. It gets your mind off of yourself and onto other things. Isolation leads to wierd thinking. We need people to stay sane.

3. Accept the things out of your control. This is what it is, and obsessing about it will only make it worse.

I hope this helps. The above info was given to me by my therapist and Janine. These are 2 people whose advice I trust 100%. Listen to Janine 
 She may not tell you what you want to hear, but what she tells you works.

Ken


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

Thank you Ken for your words...I'm indeed trying to live despite the thoughts, and sometimes I'm successful! I've a job, I study, I've a girlfriend...but with obsessions, I can enjoy these things at 50%  
I know these are obsessions and I know how I've created them, but sometimes I'm worried of my reaction: for example, the "classic" "people can read my thoughts" obsession (read on the net, of course)...well, I don't really believe it, but sometimes when someone says something I thought they didn't know about me, I automatically think "How could he/she know this?" and then I freak out "Arghh, you questioned if people can really read your thoughts, you're going nuts!"...is this an aspect of the obsession, a learned behaviour after months of internet searches or...something else? :shock: 
Or, even if I think "maybe all people are aliens"...well, I know it's a stupid thought but then I think "Well, how can you be sure it's not true?" and then, of course, I panick and I start imagine myself locked in a mental hospital, stuffed with drugs and always crying "Leave me be you aliens!"  
And people think I'm a great person, when in reality I've these stupid thoughts running 24/7 in my mind, what an irony


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

Tau,

Ask yourself when your obsessive thoughts began. For instance, I was sitting in a movie theatre last Friday watching a horror movie and started thinking "what if this is like a horror movie and everyone will change in some monsters and kill me". Now, I laughed it off when I first thought that. MOST people I know had these crazy thoughts and laughed it off.

HOWEVER, in our anxious and obsessive conditions, I kept telling myself "ok, don't think that anymore because only mentally ill people think that" and what do you think happened? I started thinking it and have been for the past 4 days.

Would I normally spend so much time on something like that? No. It's our fear and introspection that does it to us.

Trust yourself and why don't you just live in the moment and trust what you see. Do you SEE aliens? No. You're thinking "what if" or "maybe" they're aliens. Give up those thoughts. When you start a thought with "maybe" or "what if", label it as an "anxiety" thought in your mind, laugh it off and go on with your life. Then as you get interested in other things, the thoughts will no longer matter.

(By the way, I know how you feel. I'm still scared as well but I trust Janine and trust that we ALL have these symptoms and none of us are locked up somewhere. We are all just scared and too occupied with ourselves).


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

Tidal, it's unbelievable...I had your exact fear last week!
I was at the cinema with my girlfriend and some friends, watching "Resident Evil 2: Apocalypse"...well, of course I thought "What if everyone change into a zombie and eat me?" Crazy I know, and I also know I would have laughed at it if I wasn't so obsessive...but this damn thought has ruined my saturday night :? 
Well, our mind can conjure all sorts of crazy thoughts, so I'm not surprised anymore...scared, but not surprised. 
Hang on, we can beat it.

Tau


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## Guest (Nov 11, 2004)

Isn't it funny how we can give each other rational advice yet be unable to rationally apply it to our own lives? LOL

I think we'll beat it too. I'm scared, I'm questioning things but I'll trust myself and Janine and get better. Work with what you see right in front of you not with what you imagine things to be like.

This morning I tried to do a little experiment and see if I begin most of my thoughts with "what if" or "maybe" and all of them were "what ifs" and each time I was scared it was preceded by a "what if" thought.

We're just obsessed. We need hobbies or something,lol.


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## JAG (Aug 31, 2004)

My biggest paranoid thought since I found this board was that I had created the board up in my mind. The thought was that because I was feeling so isolated with my DP/DR for so many years that I finally created a community of people in my mind that experienced life like me.

The thought only lasted a brief second, but it was interesting.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2004)

JAG,

Let's say you DID create this board in your mind. Would sitting there and thinking about it solve the problem? Probably not.

I still have crazy crazy thought but I realized that for instance, my paranoid thoughts about people being after me etc. came a week after I looked up schizophrenia on the web. Now that I think about it rationally, do schizophrenics sit there and worry about their own thoughts? Probably not. Do they question them? No, they are convinced that they're correct.

As Claire Weekes' book said, "what the use of crying in the dark?". If we are insane (which we are not, we're just anxious and obsessive), would we cure ourselves by sitting there and worrying about it? I doubt it!!!

Let it go, if you think you're insane.... go into oblivion, give up and live your life with no fear... and I guarantee that you'll discover that you were and will be totally sane and happy.

What else can we do? Mental illness is not something you can control. If it's going to happen, it will just happen. It's pointless sitting there and worrying about it.

We will never have explanations or answers for what is happening to us so we might just as well give up the questions and start doing other things in life.


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## dreamcatcher (Sep 23, 2004)

BRILLIANT ADVISE TIDAL....I AGREE WITH U 100%.......JUST A GREAT SHAME IT DIFFICULT TO TURN THINGS ROUND QUICKLY...I WISH WE COULD...BUT I AGREE WE NEED TO GET ON WITH LIVING IN WHATEVER STATE WE ARE IN


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2004)

Exactly Dreamcatcher!!!!

Last night I sat down with my parents and told them about all the fears I have of "what if I turn psychotic and harm you" etc. and asked them if they feel comfortable with me just letting it all go whatever the consequences will be... and they said yes..... let it all go and accept whatever comes.... just be yourself, trust yourself..... worrying about "well what if I'm insane" won't make me sane anyway so what's the point? They seem to have trust in me and think that I'll recover completely yet I question myself and don't trust my own self? That's got to stop.

Just let it all go and as Janine said, do other things.... be yourself... go with your instincts and it will ALL go away with time.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2004)

One more thing....

I just re-read something Janine said before under a similar topic (maybe I'm becoming obsessed with Janine worship at the moment, lol=) and I realized that she nailed it when she said it may not be the thoughts we're afraid of but rather our reactions to them.

If I'm thinking "all people are aliens waiting to harm me" (which is what Tau and I have been previously discussing), I think that I'm scared of the thought but maybe in reality I am scared of emotions... of what my reaction to that would be... would I harm someone? Would I leash out in madness?

Give up the fear and live....you KNOW you're a sane, strong individual.... let it go since in reality we never truly have control anyway....these things are out of our hands so let them flow....

As John Lennon said "It's fear of the unknown. The unknown is what it is. Accept that it's unknown and it's plain sailing".


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2004)

Back off, psychotic-wanna be's.

If ANYbody invented this Board as a figment of her imagination, it's ME!

Any efforts on anyone's paranoid fears to prove otherwise will result in my filing a lawsuit in pretend court and landing you in pretend jail.

Sincerely,
Janine Baker
(please contact my attorney for future inquiries)
:lol:


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

LMAO at Janine.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2004)

Shit, this is so annoying and the fact that people here have paranoid thoughts too doesn't calm me down anymore.

I AM paranoid I think.

For example, I think that the policemen that happened to be in their fucking cars watching the traffic yesterday were after me.

I never ever before had such obsessive bullshit thoughts.

They only occur when I have anxiety. The thing is that I don't have panic or anxiety fits anymore, instead I have mild anxiety all the time, and when I get those annoying thoughts I do have anxiety and I am shaking inside.

I can't get them out of my head.

If I had anxiety fits I would not think those thoughts because heightened anxiety makes me focus on myself only. But moderate anxiety over a certain period of time shifts the focus away onto such bullshit topics as policemen which never bothered me before.

Well, i read Janines latest post in the analytic section and that was a bad idea cause it is about an assumed psychotic and only reading the word 'psychotic' on dpselfhelp makes me shaky.

Can someone please confirm that I am psychotic because then I go straight to the mental ward to get some thought inhibiting drugs, seriously.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2004)

I said:


> sh*t, this is so annoying and the fact that people here have paranoid thoughts too doesn't calm me down anymore.
> 
> I AM paranoid I think.
> 
> ...


DO IT! ...I'll come with you!!!

HaHa.

Have you had long-term DR and you've "spiralled"???

Dont WORRY about it!!!

Psych wards are great, they're HELPFUL, they're fun... problemo is...
You're "file" will follow you. Uh-oh. 

Dont worry.

I can hear my Neighbour above me STOMPING on wafer thin floors between us...
Clearing His throat as I tap my keyboard...
"Turning up His TV after I cough"??? Wha?

Stomp, stomp. The man is AGITATED...

I type like a lil kitty.

scared. "frightened"... afraid. *spooky ghost noise*

Why us?
Why me?

I'm hungry


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