# Death



## Alisa (Jun 27, 2008)

I get SEVERE dp whenever I think about death.

I am a christian... but then I think- nothings real so why do I even believe in something?

What do you all think happens when you die? Or what do you think heaven is like?

I really get worked up and depressed when I think about it because there'sd really know answers at all........ how can I make peace with the thought of death? I tried to kill myself once, being unafraid of death. Now that I want to live, I don't think I could ever handle someone close to me dying or me being faced with death- because of my fear of the uncertainty.
Tell me what you think please.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2008)

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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

as stupid as it is, i still find it hard to accept the sense of complete equality each man should have with his other given the two most salient aspects of existance: to have lived and to die. and yet, i still find it hard to imagine, since i am not you, or anyone else...i can't imagine what it is like to be you....to have an experience of planet earth from birth to death....to be living in a completely different universe (whatever you see it as is bound to be different to how i see it;....reality is fragmented.

and to have to have my own universe while you are having your own universe...just makes me feel so low.
i have the primary alienation thing factoring in my personality most of the time...it just feels so alone to be a person because everything is hidden from view all of the time. i can't join with another person. everything is happening without my awareness, and makes me feel so ignorant. i am going to die before ever having got an answer from God how it ever was that i came to exist and to feel myself to be a person....a person...a person.....what is a _person ?_


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Shamans use death as their advisor as their ultimate guide in life, so if you have a decision to make you consult your death and consider if this was the last decsion you ever made before you die what would you do? which is a pretty logical way of looking at things if you think about it because you could die at any moment, whats to stop your heart from stopping? we could die any minute, there is nothing we could do about it.

Maybe you still fear death which is why you get dp from thinking about it, but maybe your desire to end your life is stronger than your fear of death which is why you are not afraid of that, but that does not mean you are not afriad of death just that other desires are stronger. I say this because they say of you truely conquer the fear of death then you have very few fears and anxieties.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2008)

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## xxxphillixxx (Jun 24, 2008)

If death should take me now, count my mistakes and let me through.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Death doesn't take long. Life does. Life is our forever. Think about death, but don't dwell on it.

Immortality is a curse. Eventually life becomes unbearable for anyone. Make a difference while you're here. Don't forget to enjoy life.

Believe in whatever works for you until it doesn't, but don't stop searching for meaning.


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

VinCi said:


> Meaning is usually like this:
> People and animals mean something deep to you, and you do to them, there's always meaning in your life.
> Think of all the things that give oyu meaning, music, art, sex, alcohol, nature, learning, knowledge, discovering new things all the time.
> Try to keep your life like that


Beautiful.I agree.


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## Crimson (Dec 20, 2008)

Alisa said:


> What do you all think happens when you die?


Absolutely nothing. When I die, the bioelectric acivity in the brain stops, consciousness ceases, the body decays and whatever information was stored in brain cells is lost forever. The moment you die, it will be as if you never lived. That's the nature of existence. I believe there is logic to the universe, and the thought of life after death makes no sense what so ever. There is only matter and energy, and what we call life is part of the cycle of conversion. The concept of the immortal soul is highly illogical.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Crimson said:


> Alisa said:
> 
> 
> > What do you all think happens when you die?
> ...


Indeed, but what does it feel like to cease to exist? What is nothing? When the self completely breaks down must it still obey the rules of this world? It'll be interesting to find out...or not find out. I don't believe in an afterlife, but I think there's more to the universe than meets the eye.


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2008)

I believe our loss of or "fragmentation of Self" leads us to be concerned about death. I wondered about death when I was 4, would go into a DP trance and NOT be afraid of it. Years later, the DP would come over me and terrify me, and I would say, "What is nothingness" vs. "Being". As my life has gone on, the fear of death is less. My fear is not being around to see all the great things, to miss people, to see people die ... to be alone.

I have not found God, I have tried to find some peace of mind. I am trying to learn to stop worrying and live in the moment -- the Buddhist perspective -- and that is HARD WORK. For "healthy" people it isn't a lot of work.

Many people never conquer their fear of death, but don't worry about it -- I could mention 12 people I know offhand who would say, "Why do you concern yourself with that?" -- and that is ANY worry (stockmarket, etc.). I know with myself I am programmed to worry about the most idiotic things, less now about more profound things, though I wonder when someone will set off the atomic bomb. :shock:

Forgive the levity: "It's not the cough that carries you off, it's the coffin they carry you off in." :mrgreen:


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## jittahbugz (Feb 9, 2009)

Crimson said:


> Alisa said:
> 
> 
> > What do you all think happens when you die?
> ...


I Think this is the answer, but only justifies DP and adds fuel to the fire, makes everything that we already think is "not real" is actually electronic in some way.

Death to me is questionable by me asking myself this question,

"The universe and all existance, exists only because you as an individual person exists and is able witness it by sight, smell, touch, etc. When i die, the universe and anything in the universe and beyond that exists, existance itself, will cease, stop, and no longer exist in any way shape or form, because i am dead."

So you only exist, yes you reading this comment, only exist because i am still here alive and still in existance, and the same in reverse i only exists because you exist.

I use to ask myself a question, more of a though, that if the universe was as it is today, the planets, TAKE AWAY LIFE. Everything still exists but life does not. Nothing exists but objects, if Planet earth was the only source of existance in the entire universe and beyond, and i mean the ONLY one place life exists, Take away life - Demolish the existance of life, does earth and the universe still exists? If no life is in existance to acknowledge it exists, then surely existance isnot real, and nothing is here or anywhere.

So to me, my death is the end of the universe.


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## diagnosedindigo (Feb 10, 2009)

in the words of peter pan, "death is just one big adventure"


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## Chillwynston (Apr 3, 2009)

Crimson said:


> Alisa said:
> 
> 
> > What do you all think happens when you die?
> ...


Agree, my turn on it is, it feels like before you were born!!!!

If you think about it, which I do far too much, it is just like light and dark light being life and dark being death, dark is not a state it is the absence of light, just like death is not a state it is an absence of life, so then you can never be dead only not alive...haha well it kinda makes sense to me anyway!!!


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Then let us consider this question, not in relation to man only, but in relation to animals generally, and to plants, and to everything of which there is generation, and the proof will be easier. Are not all things which have opposites generated out of their opposites? I mean such things as good and evil, just and unjust-and there are innumerable other opposites which are generated out of opposites. And I want to show that this holds universally of all opposites; I mean to say, for example, that anything which becomes greater must become greater after being less.

True. 
And that which becomes less must have been once greater and then become less.

Yes. 
And the weaker is generated from the stronger, and the swifter from the slower.

Very true. 
And the worse is from the better, and the more just is from the more unjust.

Of course. 
And is this true of all opposites? and are we convinced that all of them are generated out of opposites?

Yes. 
And in this universal opposition of all things, are there not also two intermediate processes which are ever going on, from one to the other, and back again; where there is a greater and a less there is also an intermediate process of increase and diminution, and that which grows is said to wax, and that which decays to wane?

Yes, he said. 
And there are many other processes, such as division and composition, cooling and heating, which equally involve a passage into and out of one another. And this holds of all opposites, even though not always expressed in words-they are generated out of one another, and there is a passing or process from one to the other of them?

Very true, he replied. 
Well, and is there not an opposite of life, as sleep is the opposite of waking?

True, he said. 
And what is that? 
Death, he answered. 
And these, then, are generated, if they are opposites, the one from the other, and have there their two intermediate processes also?

Of course. 
Now, said Socrates, I will analyze one of the two pairs of opposites which I have mentioned to you, and also its intermediate processes, and you shall analyze the other to me. The state of sleep is opposed to the state of waking, and out of sleeping waking is generated, and out of waking, sleeping, and the process of generation is in the one case falling asleep, and in the other waking up. Are you agreed about that?

Quite agreed. 
Then suppose that you analyze life and death to me in the same manner. Is not death opposed to life?

Yes. 
And they are generated one from the other? 
Yes. 
What is generated from life? 
Death. 
And what from death? 
I can only say in answer-life. 
Then the living, whether things or persons, Cebes, are generated from the dead?

That is clear, he replied. 
Then the inference is, that our souls are in the world below? 
That is true. 
And one of the two processes or generations is visible-for surely the act of dying is visible?

Surely, he said. 
And may not the other be inferred as the complement of nature, who is not to be supposed to go on one leg only? And if not, a corresponding process of generation in death must also be assigned to her?

Certainly, he replied. 
And what is that process? 
Revival. 
And revival, if there be such a thing, is the birth of the dead into the world of the living?

Quite true. 
Then there is a new way in which we arrive at the inference that the living come from the dead, just as the dead come from the living; and if this is true, then the souls of the dead must be in some place out of which they come again. And this, as I think, has been satisfactorily proved.


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## Chillwynston (Apr 3, 2009)

You have successfully trapped yourself in language.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Chillwynston said:


> You have successfully trapped yourself in language.


That is a excerpt from Plato's _Phaedo_.


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## Chillwynston (Apr 3, 2009)

Yes It's a beutiful piece.. But epitomises how language creates structure where there is none.. The structure of death does not oppose life as death is as abstract as time. It is humanity who have named it death when it is simply "not life"

If me holding a ball was to be called x and if I threw the ball away I would be simply 'not' x, then someone comes along and says no no thats y..

So... If death does not exist as a state of being then you are never dead you are only ever alive.. As when you die you cease to be you freeing you from being..

Phew I have a headache!!! :shock:


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Chillwynston said:


> Yes It's a beutiful piece.. But epitomises how language creates structure where there is none.. The structure of death does not oppose life as death is as abstract as time. It is humanity who have named it death when it is simply "not life"
> 
> If me holding a ball was to be called x and if I threw the ball away I would be simply 'not' x, then someone comes along and says no no thats y..
> 
> ...


But that's Socrates' whole argument--that death is just the anti-life, its opposite. Then he draws that out into all sorts of stuff that could be debated forever, ending up with an argument for what sounds like reincarnation.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

I think it is an interesting piece, but I don't really agree that things are created from their opposites. Sure if you are getting 'stronger' than you at one point were 'weaker' - but if you are born a weak individual and live as a weak individual your whole life, how is your weakness created from strength? Sure your weakness might be relative to strength- meaning it can only exist with strength as a relative comparison but one can be weak without ever being strong.

Plato does this a lot - proving something through traps of reasoning that really don't add up because he is comparing apples and oranges. Socratic reasoning is a good learning method in general, but the way Plato uses it, it is rarely valid or practical.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Matt210 said:


> I think it is an interesting piece, but I don't really agree that things are created from their opposites. Sure if you are getting 'stronger' than you at one point were 'weaker' - but if you are born a weak individual and live as a weak individual your whole life, how is your weakness created from strength? Sure your weakness might be relative to strength- meaning it can only exist with strength as a relative comparison but one can be weak without ever being strong.
> 
> Plato does this a lot - proving something through traps of reasoning that really don't add up because he is comparing apples and oranges. Socratic reasoning is a good learning method in general, but the way Plato uses it, it is rarely valid or practical.


I agree. I love _Great Dialogues_, though, because it's hilarious to watch Socrates blow people's minds out of the water. I think his arguments for virtue being just knowledge in Meno and his discussion of love in Symposium, although problematic, are pretty cool. Since we were talking death I figured I'd post Phaedo.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

I'm scared of death. I'm always wondering about it. I don't have an opinion about what death is and what comes after. I often think about killing myself but then I get too scared because of what come after death (the act itself is less scary). My family is a jewish religious family (it's called-Modern Orthodox Judaism) and I also learned in religious high school for girls( I guess some of you don't know much about it so I describe the basic:

There are 613 Mitzvot(and a lot of other things) you should live by, like: believing is god, learning Torah(men need to pray 3 times a day), Men must not shave the hair off the sides of their head, Not to tattoo the skin, Shabbat (more rules about it- but in large it mean not to do any "labor" like you can't use electricity or drive a car, etc), a lot of holidays which is like Shabbat by the form of not doing "labor", not to have sex with someone you aren't married to(not to mention- touching at all someone from the opposite sex you aren't married to/family) , eat Kosher food (for example you arent alowed to eat meat of a pig and also crabs. also, can't eat milk and meat together- you have to wait at least 3 hours after you eat any meat ), clothes- women for example have to wear a shirt with sleeves that covers the elbow and a skirt the covers the knees.

This is really the elementary stuff I lived by since birth. At my high school we prayed every morning, learned a lot of holy lessions and if your clothes weren't modest you were sent home to change clothes.

The whole reason I'm writing is that most of my close people believe that if you keep all this rules and believe in god- then after death you'll go to the afterlife. And the people who don't keep this rules will go to hell (by the way, it's also believed that people who kill themselves go to hell). I'm not religious for 3,4 years. By the rules I deserve to go to hell. All this religious stuff make me so confused, even angry at times. I'm not sure what I believe in. I find a lot of good things in being religious. I love part of it and I respect it a lot. I think the hardest part for me, more then all those rules, are some people. Some religious people that are so narrow minded that it makes me mad. I see people the way they are and it doesn't matter what they believe in. I'm lucky though that my good religious friends are still my friends (they are great, not narrow minded at all) and my family accept it. There are times I can keep a lot of the rules and other times I'm living in "sin". At home I'm keeping the rules next to my family. By the way, tomoorow starts Passover. Before the holiday start you should clean your house from any kind of bread. So there is nothing left to eat and I'm still not alowed to eat "Passover food" so I'm starving right now.

Anyhow, what I want to say is that I'm not sure what comes after death. I just hope, really hope, I'll get to a better place after I die. I think I suffered enough pain.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2009)

Believe in yourself Everdream, I hear such alot of pain in your posts  I Believe in you, I wish you could too.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

At least I have you that believe in me.  I'm glad you are here.
Yeah, so much pain. I think I'll try to simply enjoy this holiday and not to think about anything. That's hard. The pain is always there.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm sure there's more than just me that believes in you Everdream, I'm sure everybody here on this forum does too. ((hugs))
Enjoy your holidays. :wink:


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