# ECT?



## OnMyOwn (Jul 31, 2018)

https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/jnnp/23/3/242.full.pdf

If you look at the above link you'll notice some impressive numbers with people using ECT to recover from chronic depersonalization. The study is perhaps fairly outdated (1960) but still relevant nonetheless. I've thought about ECT myself... let me know your opinions on this, whether you think its helpful or useless, if you've had ECT yourself and what your experience was like, and whether you support it or your against it.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

I was around in 1960. That was a long time ago. ECT has evolved to become a more precise and controlled procedure. It is nothing like its portrayal in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", though

I'm sure the pharmaceutical industry is happy to promote that image. The simple fact is that ECT is the most effective treatment for moderate to severe major depression.

Major Depression can be an umbrella illness covering a Pandora's box full of ugly symptoms. I reviewed a comprehensive list of depressive symptoms, and recognized that I had experienced about 90% of them

at one time or another. Chronic DP made the list. I had ECT in 2014, after living with recurrent major depression, ocular migraines, and focal temporal lobe seizures, for 40 years.

I stayed in a VA Hospital for 2 weeks, and had ECT every other day. The procedure was painless, except for the uncomfortable anesthetic that was introduced through an IV in my hand.

I didn't care for the mild burning sensation. When my series of induced convulsions was complete, I went home. I continued to take a daily dosage of Lexapro. My depression lifted and

I was given a new lease on life. I felt that something fundamental had changed. After surviving 5 major episodes of depression in my life, I somehow knew I was better.

My mental health continued to improve over the following 6 weeks post ECT.. My long struggle with mental illness was over. At least as over, as it can be after 40 years on the job.

Initially, I had some minor short term memory loss. I think I got it all back. I dunno, as I can't remember. lol I stopped taking the Lexapro earlier this year. I don't miss it. I take no psych drugs for

the first time in 30 years.

I remember seeing an elderly lady on the ward during a previous hospitalization. I overheard her telling someone "I don't take meds that make my mouth dry and constipate me. I'm here for

my maintenance ECT, and I go home this afternoon.". She had it figured out.


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## Patrick H. (Mar 18, 2018)

Very interesting. Where can we get more info about getting this treatment for DP?


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

I've had a total of 20 sessions of ECT, 14 at one point, and 6 at another. Like all my psychiatric treatments, I can't really attribute anything lasting to my experience, positive or negative.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

I think ECT is the answer to some, but not all psychiatric illness. I make the analogy to rebooting a crashed computer, forcing it to rid itself of damaged apps and starting from the boot firmware.

Apparently, my boot firmware was still intact.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Where said:


> I stopped after two sessions. I realized it wasn't what I wanted to do. I remember walking through town lost because of the memory loss, just from two sessions: I'm very much not a fan of people being put under at least twelve times and then having seizures induced in them.
> 
> The doctor asked, "Do you feel any better?" and upped the shocks when I denied feeling any benefit from session 1 out of 12. Not only was it the first session, I was just put under and given a seizure a day and a half ago, so was I expected to feel dandy?
> 
> ...


Were you an inpatient when you had these sessions done?

I did them because I was so desperate, I was willing to try anything. But your experience is ridiculous and reminds me of my many inpatient psych treatments. I got admitted for "depression" (because my horrible symptoms made me suicidal, and I didn't have any term at the time for what I was experiencing), and so they put me on psych meds, as they do. The next day they ask me how I feel, I tell them I don't feel any better, so they increase the dosage or add another med. After awhile I understood the nature of the game, and finally said what they wanted to here so they would stop torturing me. At that point, of course, they reasoned that they had finally hit on the right combination of medications for me. It's absolutely absurd.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Where said:


> I was inpatient. The way they pelt people with meds is a crime, and it's all in the name of money because the insurance company and the economy in general sets the tone. The doctors are at fault too, because they choose their medicine by taking patients on and off everything in the pharmacy at incredible high speeds. Generally speaking, people in our society aren't likely to stand up to money or use their heads independently.
> 
> There's a genetic test that works pretty well to figure out which meds will have a beneficial and hopefully not adverse reaction, but of course most psychiatrists scoff at this because it clashes with their conventional "wisdom." American crisis docs seem to be pretty daring. I'd rather see an Indian person. Maybe it's weird to stereotype like that, but it's my experience.
> 
> Psych meds, psychiatrists, and ECT all exist for a reason, but it's how and when they're used and in what context that's important. ECT is for depression. They used to do it for schizophrenia, but not anymore. My gay friend told me psychiatrists used to do ECT to treat homosexuality.


Have you ever looked into the history of psychiatry? It really is a bogus profession. The reason ECT was "discovered" as a treatment for schizophrenia was that it was observed that epileptics rarely had schizophrenia and vice versa, so they reasoned that epilepsy and schizophrenia couldn't exist in the same brain.

Unlike many in society and on this forum, I don't think psychiatry has grown up from its barbaric and childish past. It's still based on false premises and lacks the scientific rigor that characterizes other medical specialties. Frankly I don't see why it exists at all. What is the subject matter of psychiatry? It basically covers any and all human problems, individual and collective, claiming to serve both the patient and society with whom he may be in conflict, and as a result it is worthless, undefined, and deceitful. If depression and DP, etc, are brain diseases as the mental health proagandizers like to proclaim, then they should be treated by neurologists.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Where said:


> This might be biased, but I feel like clinical psychiatrists are probably one of the easier MDs to impersonate. "Yeah, we'll go with Zoloft. That one is a classic, right? The commercial with the puffs was excellent...It's because neuroplasticity and stuff...Damn, we're some heroes for tolerating this bullshit...Okay, see y'all tomorrow." *Gets in recently waxed car, current model.* *Drives to luxury home.* *Eats real food.* *Has sex.*


Of course, all they need to know is which med is indicated for which so-called psychiatric diagnosis so that they know which drug to give you for your diagnosis, or, more often, which diagnosis to give you based on which med they want to give you. That and a few contraindications. Side effects and long-term complications are a non-issue because they can just blame those on your "underlying psychiatric illness", without worrying much about malpractice because psychiatric diagnoses are unfalsifiable (so they can't be blamed for misdiagnosis) and, well, who will listen to a crazy person, right? Pretty sweet gig if you can get it. Though the minor downside is they are not generally respected by their peers. However, that's not too big of a concern because regular doctors just send all their problem patients to them, so there's an endless supply of business.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Where said:


> Being a psychiatrist probably gets gloomy and demanding, if I had to guess. It can probably be a morbid job at times, and frustrating when people pretend that they have no problem or simply don't want to stop their damaging behaviors.
> 
> Working with people deemed mentally ill is probably very rewarding sometimes, and other times demoralizing. When the people who are supposed to be helping get demoralized, they should be given time off or something, because clients need hope and good attitudes about their situations in order to recover.
> 
> The social aspect is very important. It usually takes just a little bit of encouragement to spark something good in a person. It's kind of funny how much better a place the world could be with just a few changes, like if hope and encouragement were first line treatments. You can't patent hope and sell it offshore, though, so that would be bad for the economy.


I feel like this applies much more to therapists than to MD Psychiarists. And I would agree to that.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

"First do no harm". That's all that most psychiatrists can do. Brain illness is treated by two medical specialties. Neurology and Psychiatry. The dividing line seems to seperate issues which are understood and treatable, from those which are not.

Psychiatry has no real understanding, and it has no cures. It simply treats symptoms, and hopes to do no harm. But, it is inherently harmful to be treated long term, for an illness that is not properly diagnosed or treated.

That is my beef with psychiatry. I suffered focal temporal lobe seizures from 1971 through 2010, ocular migraine headaches, and episodes of major depression and my EEG during that time would have shown significant pathology in the

temporal lobe of my brain. I didn't receive that EEG until I demanded it, following the discovery of a case history I found on the internet, which explained my syndrome.


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