# Flight 93.



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

This monstrosity of a film, next years Oscar winner, just about sums up how I, currently, feel about America (note: not americans).

Where is the dignity in this film? Will the enormous profits go to the families of the people who died on that plane? Will the actors, when attending the premier, standing in front of a microphone, moisten their eyes and have lips trembling with repressed emotion? You know what? I doubt it.

I've got some new ideas for some films:

*Honey, I've f**cked up the world (and I couldn't give a s**t)*

*The Bridge over Abu Ghraib*

*McDonalds: In the drivethrough, knowone can hear your stomach scream*.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Greengras, writer/producer/director of Flight 93 was a Brit, lol.

Sigh, so much for respect. This is what I meant, my dahling 8) and what Wendy was referring to. Respect here on the board, at least a modicum sp?, but we're used to you now Martin, lol.

I wrote my comment on United 93 in the other "Global Warmning" discussion, but FYI, director/writer/producer Paul Greengrass is a Brit.

Info on "United 93" see Internet Movie Database:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0475276/

*Director/Writer/Producer: Paul Greengrass, born 1955, Cheam, Surrey, U.K.

Quotation by Greengrass:
"A festival of puerile self-importance, intense paranoia, fiddled expenses and brilliant creativity." On his time with British current-affairs TV-programme 'World in Action'.*

He is known for "Bloody Sunday" and the "Bourne Identity" ... much of his work has been done in the U.K. -- TV, other stuff.

*TRIVIA for Unitied 93:*
U.S Military Air Traffic Controllers were used in some scenes for the movie.

The ensemble cast of mainly unknown actors were each given studies of their real life United Flight 93 counterparts. Director Paul Greengrass was then able to partially improvise some of the events for the film.

This film was shot with basic portable cameras rather than really expensive digital ones. This was for immediacy.

The Iraqi-born (but London-based) actor 'Lewis Alsamari', who plays the lead hijacker in the film, was denied a visa by US immigration authorities when he applied to visit New York City to attend the premiere, despite having already been granted asylum in the United Kingdom since the 1990s. The reason given was that he had once been a conscripted member of the Iraqi army - although this was also the grounds for his refugee status after his desertion in 1993.

*Families of the 40 passengers and crew members killed on United Flight 93 cooperated in the production, offering Greengrass detailed background about their loved ones, down to the clothes they wore, what reading materials or music they had with them and what sort of candy they might have snacked on aboard the plane.*

The actors who played the terrorist hijackers and the actors who played the passengers and crew on the flight were kept in separate hotels during filming. They also worked out in separate gyms and did not eat meals together. This was so that the director could capture the separation, fear and hostility between the two groups of antagonists and protagonists.

*The filmmakers donated a percentage of the opening weekend proceeds to the Flight 93 memorial near Shanksville, Pennsylvania. The actual amount donated turned out to be $1.15 million.*

At the request of the filmmakers, no studio-produced trailers were shown before the start of the movie in its theatrical run."

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Ah, Martin, we come from differnt countries, but I see how different these countries are. 
Sad.
Cheers,
D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

United 93 will not win the Oscar, even though it one of the best crafted films I've seen in I don't know when. Editing to music to cinemtography to...

Something like "The Omen" will win, lol. I long gave up on the Oscars. They are Hollywood, Politically Correct. This film was not "Politically Correct"... although you never know w/Hollywood. Last year Brokeback Mountain (which didn't deserve the Oscar) and "Capote" (which did) -- neither one best picture in P.C. Hollywood.

Curious about other Guilds and the Brit Oscars. Etc.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Filming Locations for 
United 93 (2006) 
Newark Liberty International Airport, Newark, New Jersey, USA 
Pinewood Studios, Iver Heath, Buckinghamshire, England, UK 
Stansted Airport, Essex, England, UK

It's a conspiracy. The film used a lot of UK crew! :shock: 
:wink:


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

I have to strongly disagree with you on this one Martin. I thought the same thing when i heard this thing was being released. I thought to myself, "Good Christ, is there no such thing as dignity in Hollywood", and what not. I thought...to what level are these slick Hollywood producers prepared to sink?

But then i read the reviews and found out Greengrass was directing. Since i had just finished reading the 9/11 commission report and am otherwise obsessed with all things relating to that day, i decided to give it a try.

I was shocked and floored after watching this film. It was phenomenally powerful and had me literally trembling as i left the theatre. This film was done in just about the only way i could imagine it could have been done respectfully.

s.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

sebastian said:


> I have to strongly disagree with you on this one Martin. I thought the same thing when i heard this thing was being released. I thought to myself, "Good Christ, is there no such thing as dignity in Hollywood", and what not. I thought...to what level are these slick Hollywood producers prepared to sink?
> 
> But then i read the reviews and found out Greengrass was directing. Since i had just finished reading the 9/11 commission report and am otherwise obsessed with all things relating to that day, i decided to give it a try.
> 
> ...


Sebastian I became very preoccupied with 9/11 as well, far more interested in politics, etc. Also, after Capote, I steeped myself in the man, the book, the earlier film "In Cold Blood", etc.

A good film sparks intelligent discussion.

Yup, my feelings exactly. If you want very negative comments about the film, go to the IMDB discussion board for the film where Americans are ripping it to shreds. The main thing are the endless conspiracy theories that the plane was shot down by a missle, that 9/11 was staged by Bush -- OMG. Or the CIA, or name someone. It was all fake. Some even say that the planes that hit the WTC were faked.

I was prompted to see the film to see what the Hell these people were talking about. And it was obvious they hadn't gone and never will. The film spoke to a certain audience who appreciates an intelligent film. It was not a box office blockbuster here. "RV" with Robin Williams is. :roll: Or "X-Men" or something.

The film was mesermizing from the first instant. I was caught up in it, unlike most Hollywood films I've seen (or refuse to even rent) in ... a long time.

Everyone in the theatre I was in, stopped eating, you could hear a pin drop. And I and many others including men were crying. I was also rattled, sitting on the edge of my scene. People sat in stunned silence as the final credits rolled.

*This film was done with dignity. There were NO GOOD GUYS OR BAD GUYS -- the film was completely neutral. The terrorists were doing what they believed in and the passengers reacted very realistically (and we know that much of that is fact).

One of the saddest, poignant moments for me was in the end, when the plane was crashing towards the ground, the passengers were praying "Our Father, who art in Heaven....." and the terrorist pilot was saying a prayer to Allah. It was sad to see that, if one believes in God, that in a sense they were really praying to the same God.*

And I didn't see these individuals as heros -- the passengers or the terrorists. Not all the passengers were involved in fighting back. There was mass confusion, very realistic, some people stunned, unable to act. And they knew they would die. In the end everyone on that plane would die and it was a terrible, terrible waste.

I think that is part of what I got out of the film.

Martin, yes, one has to earn respect, and as time goes on, I HATE to say this, I'm losing much of it re: your bitter posts. I know you are a curmudgeon, but it gets painful after a while. And again, you don't discuss the film as you might in a University class (God I miss uni!) or in any civil manner.

Yes, respect has to be earned.

Also, I saw my shrink today and briefly mentioned this on the Board. He said, "Oh yeah, nobody likes us. Why are you so concerned?" I said, because I want to be liked as a person, I want to be loved, I wanted to be loved. It is illogical now. I have to let go of that. No one can like everyone, ever. And it is work for me.

And forgot to say, I have never seen so much weeping as went on at Princess Diana's funeral. Those were British people. I have never faulted them for that. I found it sad as well. But I never worshipped her. I could make fun of those people, but I can't. I have a degree of empathy for them. I am sad when great people die, as they are marking Time, ending eras. I have never seen so many flowers in my entire life at her Memorial.

Loss, is not pleasant for anyone.

You are bright and funny Martin, but (perhaps for many reasons that are legitimate) you have grown so bitter. Yet your post on the main forum about pushing on ... that is a different Martin.

And again, I didn't intend for you to post in the other thread ASAP. I didn't think you were going to log on for some time since your grandmum's death. I thought the post might slip down the thread and you wouldnt seem my final cry for an answer, lol.

D :?


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Dreamer said:


> *
> One of the saddest, poignant moments for me was in the end, when the plane was crashing towards the ground, the passengers were praying "Our Father, who art in Heaven....." and the terrorist pilot was saying a prayer to Allah. It was sad to see that, if one believes in God, that in a sense they were really praying to the same God.*


I thought this scene was incredibly powerful. It just spoke volumes, I thought.

A funny little story (and no racism is inherent in this, just the way my mind works)...when i saw this movie the first time i saw it by myself, but the second time i went with my Dad to see it and the only other people in the cinema were a group of about 15 arabic teenagers and men and women. But after the film was finished i thought how hilarious it would be if i stood up, my eyes welling with tears, pointed at them and yelled: "You did this, you bastards!"

I don't know why i thought that it would be so funny. I think it's because there was me and my dad, two conspicuously white people sitting at the front of the cinema, and a group of arabs sitting in the back and we were obviously watching a film that touched on a lot of racial and religious issues and if we were all in a less tolerant country than Canada, it could even have been a movie that, as people, would have divided us in some way. Obviously, i would never actually do anything like that and No, I have nothing at all against Arabs as a race. It's the situation that i found quite funny.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Sigh, so much for respect. This is what I meant, my dahling and what Wendy was referring to. Respect here on the board, at least a modicum sp?, but we're used to you now Martin, lol.


Is that an attempt to patronise me? Curious.



> Ah, Martin, we come from differnt countries, but I see how different these countries are.
> Sad.


Ah, yes, it was.

I knew that my posting about this film would fill your bonnets with bee's. I just cannot comprehend how a film can be made, and I conceed that it was made sensitively and so forth, six years after a tragedy. I don't understand it! Why has it been done? We in the UK suffered 20 years of continual bombing by the IRA, but we never made a 'film' about it.



> And forgot to say, I have never seen so much weeping as went on at Princess Diana's funeral. Those were British people. I have never faulted them for that. I found it sad as well. But I never worshipped her. I could make fun of those people, but I can't.


Are you suggesting that I am making fun of 9/11?

I was incredibly annoyed at the hysteria after Diana's death. It was ridiculous. Why aren't there people wailing on the street because my grandmother died? The grief sentiment for someone you think you know but have never met is astonishing. Why aren't people wailing with grief for the millions of children that die every day from poverty? I'll tell you why, it's celebrity grief. Because the western world is consumed by their celebrity idol's, when they die, part of them dies with them. And it's sickening.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Martinelv said:


> > Sigh, so much for respect. This is what I meant, my dahling and what Wendy was referring to. Respect here on the board, at least a modicum sp?, but we're used to you now Martin, lol.
> 
> 
> Is that an attempt to patronise me? Curious.
> ...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Martin,
You are defensive as I am. I'll try to answer these comments as well.

1. I'm not patronizing you. I was making light of what have become more and more bitter attacks on many things. You are more and more cruel, and don't acknowledge something when you are misinformed.

2. You said:



> I don't understand it! Why has it been done? We in the UK suffered 20 years of continual bombing by the IRA, but we never made a 'film' about it.


Martin, I don't think you read my posts... say about McDonalds. You can boycott McDonalds, and you didn't have to see United 93. No one dragged you there. I refuse to see many films that I know will be crap. I will not support them. The Da Vinci Code is one.

And I don't know what your sentiments are about 9/11. I've heard members of other countries say, "What is the US complaining about, we've had strife for centuries?" "Gee those Arabs should have offed Bush in the process, what a shame." Cruel comments and gross generalizations. Unnecessary and not enlightening. That is what you are doing Martin. And you get more and more bitter.

*And re: no films about the IRA!!!!! I don't comprehend this.* First of all, there have been films made since film began at the turn of the last century... or rather the very late 1800s. Film was a new medium to document historical events, as well as to entertain. "To educate and entertain."

This was a new medium that filmmakers explored with documentaries as well as fiction films. Many films (made all over the world) do this. Not just Hollywood. Hollywood became the "film capital" for many years, but that is slowly changing due to expense and the increase in indie films. A change for the better. Also, less expensive filming in other countries such as Canada. Hollywood is losing business. Box office takes are way down and the quality of films are way down, save these gems.

And re: your comment about the IRA. Well our friend Paul Greengrass did a brilliant film on that very subject. I mentioned it earlier. You should rent it:

*"Bloody Sunday"
Paul Greengrass in 2002

"Documentary-style drama showing the events that lead up to the tragic incident on January 30, 1972 in the Northern Ireland town of Derry when a protest march led by civil rights activist Ivan Cooper was fired upon by British troops, killing 13 protesters and wounding 14 more."*

Greengrass is one for doing this in the U.K. Oliver Stone is one in the U.S. though I can't stand him. Spielberg is on a mission to document the Holocaust. We have Hollywood directors on a mission, with good intent in an industry which doesn't want controversy -- though Ang Lee made Brokeback Mountain. These films don't EDIT: always make tons of money. They don't always recoup the cost of production. People don't want to see "sad" and "serious" films. I'd wager that Mission Impossible III has pulled in more than it's share of money, The Terminator, all of these action films with 8 million sequels. I find them trash. Why aren't you complaining about those films which are the epitome of "American waste" and "capitalism".

*Note: I don't understand film marketing and economics in this country. That is a whole other thing. I'm into the creative aspects so don't quote me on money.

*But finally we have Foreign Films recognized by The Academy and many other organizations. Foreign films document wars/strife/illness/social issues. This is a way to PRESERVE HISTORY -- so as we don't forget... even when we do. Filmmakers in every country I can think of who have gotten some money together, and wish to speak out about things. Also many famous novels/literature are made into films. People don't much read anymore. Another way to document the arts. This often prompts people to read the original book, or read a current affairs book.*

Most of the money Hollywood makes on films now is in foreign distribution of DVDs. No one has to buy them. But foreign countries snap them up.

Hollywood films now panders to a male audience of age 15-25. They want to be entertained with special effects. And that is the result of advances in the FX industry. There are now Cineplexes, Blockbusters. When I was a kid, there was one theatre playing one film and it showed for several weeks. Better quality. Things change, Martin, for many reasons.

Robert Redford's Sundance festival is an alternative to that, though he is angry that it is also turning into a "Hollywood clone". That is why films such as Capote (independent) and United 93 (UK producer) are such wonderful relief these days.

*I also checked the IMDB to be sure I have proof for you that over the years films have documented war/poverty/civil strife. I can't believe you aren't aware of this. From drama to documentary ... on film and on TV.

I simply plugged in the word "war" into the IMDB search engine.

http://imdb.com/find?s=kw&q=war

There are too many entries to list. Hundreds upon hundreds, and not just produced in Hollywood.*

*Such films serve as DOCUMENTARIES and reflect the influence of the era in which they were made. And documentaries themselves are film for God's sake. I just saw a brilliant one on AIDS around the world -- those are films. I was really down after seeing that.*

The masses don't know they are getting educated sometimes by "entertainment". Or they are given fodder for discussion.

*Film preserves, as do books, journalistic photographs, etc. HISTORY. This history may be interpreted with bias, or with great accuracy.*

*3. People are not necessarily wailing about poverty, misery in other countries, film again tries to document this, as does journalism. People take action! Many celebrities, including Princess Diana who brought attention to AIDS and hidden mines, bring focus to many issues. Bono, a religous man, is on an AIDS mission himself.*

And I guess you just don't understand the passage of time. You don't "give a rat's arse", which is really tiresome now. I brought up Princess Diana's death and the obsession with her as an example that Americans aren't the only ones in the world who have a "cult of celebrity" -- be it performers, politicians, whatever.

*Sentiment is empathy. It can go overboard, but it is nothing new. Famous people represent many things to us, and we can live vicarously through them. We can mourn our own losses through a bigger loss, at least I can. I have lost both parents. People came to their Memorials. I was comforted by that, they empathized as they all know they will lose their parents one day. I don't make the death of your grandmother any less. You had condolences on this Board for her. I hope, and imagine, many supportive friends and family came to her memorial.

Things start at a family level, then a community level, then more upwards from there. We each take our own passion to focus on. With action or education.

I don't know enough social science or anthropology or psychology to understand all of this. But being an evolutionary neruopsychiatric supporter, my guess is there are books examining this phenomena -- like theism. This may be programmed into us for some reason.

There is an indication that ELEPHANTS mourn. Chimpanzees mourn. WHY?*

I have my doubts you will read this, and really take it in. You resort to one sentence attacks. You don't discuss these issues.

I try to make this lighthearted, not patronizing you, but I can't anymore, because you become more and more cruel and bitter.

I don't know how to respond to you anymore. We can't have discussions.

D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

http://imdb.com/keyword/irish-republican-army/

*I plugged in "Irish Republican Army" this time. This is a list of search criteria on the subject, or related subjects or subjects due to strife of various kinds.

There is also a UK site, and I believe and German and French site. Searches there may reveal other results, though the main diff might be box office returns, etc.*

(Click on a keyword to narrow the list of titles on the right)
1920s 1970s Activism Alcohol Arson Assassination Based On Novel Based On Play Based On Story Blind Man Boxer Boxing British Soldier Card Playing Civil Disobedience Civil Rights Civil Rights Movement Collaborator Cottage Cult Favorite Duty Fighter Harmonica Historical Independent Film IRA (3) Ireland (6) Irish Irish History Jig Love Massacre Narration Nazi Northern Ireland (3) Political Politician Prisoner Of War Protest Protest March Realism Reprisal Riot Suspense Terrorism Torture War Of Independence WWII

Another excellent documentary re: 9/11, by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. They were originally making a film about an American firemen just starting out on the job. By sheer chance they were in the ladder company that was first on the scene on 9/11 -- the company that happened to be at the WTC sometimes 10 times a day (fire alarms, heart attacks). These were French documentary makers. Brothers who thought they'd lost each other during the melee.

*Both brothers carried video cameras that whole day, sometimes just dangling from their sides as they fled from the tower collapses. Afterwards, one said something like, "I had the camera. When the firemen needed for light, I gave them light, but I felt hopeless. I wasn't a medic, I wasn't a fireman. But then I realized I am here for a reason. To be a witness. To document this event*

I am really not pleased with Oliver Stone's film in production about 9/11. He is also on a mission, many political missions. That is his right. But he is a sloppy filmmaker. That will be something like "The Towering Inferno" I think.

Also, we don't need to be defended against any Arabs posting on this Board. First, I doubt there are that many, (language barrier might be a problem) and for all I know they have their own DP site!

I can understand any anger they may have. I don't understand yours. I don't understand how you don't see there ARE similarities between the US and other Western countries.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

OK, following your stunning assumption that I don't read anything you say, or, heavens forbid, comprehend it, how about this for a one sentence attack:

Everything you say, have ever said, or will ever say, is correct Dreamer.

Does that make you happy? I hope so.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Martinelv said:


> OK, following your stunning assumption that I don't read anything you say, or, heavens forbid, comprehend it, how about this for a one sentence attack:
> 
> *Everything you say, have ever said, or will ever say, is correct Dreamer.*
> 
> Does that make you happy? I hope so.


Yes it does! Finally! 8) 
I have a long list of films on the IRA situation from many countries. I will email them, you will be given a quiz on them in about 3 weeks. :wink:

OK, now I am happy as a clamlette.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> OK, now I am happy as a clamlette.


A what? I can have an uneducated guess, but it would most likely get the indians setting up a wigwam in my underpants, again.


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

> Martinelv wrote:
> OK, following your stunning assumption that I don't read anything you say, or, heavens forbid, comprehend it, how about this for a one sentence attack:
> 
> Everything you say, have ever said, or will ever say, is correct Dreamer.
> ...


I love it when we all talk sweet love talk to each other.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

terri* said:


> > Martinelv wrote:
> > OK, following your stunning assumption that I don't read anything you say, or, heavens forbid, comprehend it, how about this for a one sentence attack:
> >
> > Everything you say, have ever said, or will ever say, is correct Dreamer.
> ...


LOL terri!
and Martin you are still a devil.... :evil:

*I am such a terrier with all of this. How could I forget Ken Loach. I don't know if you Brits like him or hate him. He won at Cannes, the Palm D'Or for an IRA film this year! He takes an anti-British stance apparently though he is a Brit.*

Also, there were other countries doing short pieces on 9/11 before the towers hit the ground.

*Two things for you to study now -- there will be a pop quiz at minimum. The Greengrass drama "Bloody Sunday" is impossible to understand actually. The dialects... very difficult to follow. Need subtitles.*

I'm so glad I got back online. In my apartment building the phone wires were cut to the 6 apartment block I'm in. THAT is scary. Thank God for cell phones and what is going on in this world! Broad daylight!! It had to be kids, but my God. This is a relatively decent neighborhood.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/29/wcannes29.xml

*Loach's IRA film beats odds to take Palme D'Or at Cannes
By Hugh Davies in Cannes
(Filed: 29/05/2006)*

*The French adore Ken Loach. They call him a cinematic auteur - and last night he pulled off one of the biggest shocks in the history of the Cannes film festival by winning the Palme D'Or with The Wind That Shakes the Barley, his second film about the British in Ireland.

Almost two decades after winning the Jury Prize for Hidden Agenda, detailing the murky world of British intelligence in Belfast, he saw off the competition with his most detailed epic yet, his version of how the IRA began with the "guerilla war against the British" in 1920.*

Britain scored a double triumph, with Andrea Arnold, from Greenwich in south east London, scooping the Jury Prize with her first film, Red Road, a Scottish drama of obsession and forgiveness.

The UK Film Council had given ?447,100 of National Lottery money to the project. Arnold was described by David Thompson, the head of BBC films and a co-producer, as a film-maker of incredible vision.

Accepting the award, Arnold said it was only a week ago that she had seen the completed film for the first time. She paid special thanks to the lead actress, Kate Dickie.

*True to form, Loach accepted his prize with a shot at what he called British colonial and imperialist history, slapping Tony Blair for his Iraq policy.

He said: "Maybe if you tell the truth about the past, you might tell the truth about the present."

His win was against the odds with virtually all the critics choosing either Pedro Almodovar's Volver, starring Penelope Cruz, or the Mexican film, Babel, with Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett as an American couple caught up in a shooting in Morocco.*

*After accepting his prize, Loach, 69, said: "This is very good for British cinema.*

''I hope it encourages people in our film industry to remember we are part of world cinema and to not just look across the Atlantic.

"It's been interesting that some politicians say we must apologise for the Empire but I haven't heard any apologies.

''We have to acknowledge the exploitation and the oppression of the British state, but this film is also about heroism and bravery."

After early screenings of the film in London, one critic asked: "Is this the most pro-IRA film ever?"

The British are depicted as sub-human mercenaries burning thatched cottages, torturing IRA volunteers by using pliers to rip out toe-nails and doing extreme violence to women in the backwaters of Ireland. The gunmen are seen in a more sympathetic - almost saintly - light.

*Loach, who was given ?545,000 in lottery money to make the movie, insisted that his script was "not anti-British".

He said: ''It would have been bizarre to present the British occupation in any unrealistically pleasant way.''*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, Ken Loach participated in a 9/11 film in 2002. From the Internet Movie Database http://www.imdb.com

Ken Loach also contributed to this.....

*11'09''01 - September 11* (2002)

Directed by
Youssef Chahine
Amos Gitai
(more.......)

Writing credits 
Youssef Chahine (segment)
Sabrina Dhawan (segment)
(more..........)

*Genre: Drama (more)

Tagline: 11 directors, 11 stories, 1 film.

Plot Outline: The effects of the 9/11 terrorist attacks are told from different points of view around the world.

User Comments: A well-inspired collection of shorts.....* 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Love,
Dreamer 8) -- Martin your mind is LOW down in the gutter, LOL. Ah, and the Brits have always loved making films about WWII. And truly, if it weren't for the Brits and the Russians, we'd all be speaking German now! You Brits are very Patriotic about WWII! Very!

Brit Director David Lean's
"The Bridge on the River Kwai" is a famous example. A classic.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Final word as a film buff. I know people want different things from films. No reason to not enjoy pure entertainment.

But fims like these ... and they are dramas, or docudramas, and I include United 93, and The Wind that Shakes the Barley (which I will probably rent when it comes out -- doubt it will have wide release) which are marketed as more than true independent films which might show in a few art houses generate discussion at least. Whether you agree with them or not, the issues are important.

I am pleased that The Da Vinci Code is a film that many people have walked out of simply because it was poorly made and boring, LOL. It could have been great. But I don't like Ron Howard's directing either. He blew it. However the controversy over this piece of junk is making it a box office hit.

Most of the great films ever made in any country have a powerful message, and that's what makes them so wonderful to see.

Martin you even said, United 93 was done tastefully! Would you then not agree it was a well-made film. That is an issue separate from whether or not it should be released. This was a huge issue with The Temptation of Christ. No one knew what it was about and boycotted it for the WRONG reasons.

And it isn't just politics .. was just thinking. As soon as they capture a serial killer, there are seven books and 20 movies about it. And OJ Simpson! Jon Benet Ramsey. There were TV fims out before the blood had been cleaned up.

The nature of the beast. Bread and circus'. Give the people what they want. Truly nothing is new. Going back to Morality Plays (what were those called? -- something else ... early Christian dramas), and Greek Tragedies and Comedies, etc., etc. Shakespeare! (A Brit :shock: )

OK,
Peace, love, clamlettes :shock: and ... OMG, never mind......
D


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Just thought I'd post this. I'm taking independent digital filmmaking right now , and within the next four weeks,I'll have completed a 10 minute digital short, including CGI effects and color-timing....I cant wait! Its crazy, though...I know what its like to be under an insane deadline for a film now. I'm enlisting the help of an old roommate of mine who graduated from the Pittsburgh film Institute to get the lighting and cinematography up to par. Even the other students are getting excited about this project....I hope to enter it in a film festival, if it turns out the way I see it in my mind's eye....

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Dreamer, despite your vast intellect and mastery of the internet, you have missed my point.

These IRA 'films' that you mention, are not related to specific 'events'. Can you imagine us making a film about the bombings in London recently? I don't think so.

And yes, you are right. Most of them romantacise the IRA/Murderers. Take that American film, what was it called - Patriot Games? Jesus wept.

I understand that all Americans are actually Irish, and have this dreamy vision of the 'Emerald Isle'. Good luck to you. The reality is quite different.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Martinelv said:


> These IRA 'films' that you mention, are not related to specific 'events'. Can you imagine us making a film about the bombings in London recently? I don't think so.
> 
> I understand that all Americans are actually Irish, and have this dreamy vision of the 'Emerald Isle'. Good luck to you. The reality is quite different.


 :? 
Ah Martin, back to the hostility. Bloody Sunday is about a specific event. I believe so is Loach's film. We were talking about "docudramas" -- and for instance Flight 93 is the closest thing to docudrama as you can get these days. So was Bloody Sunday.

Something like Patriot Games is shite. I agree.

Why so insulting again? I have traveled around the world in my day. Honestly. I have been to Europe on numerous times. Sadly the last time was to London to see Hannah and the gang and you missed us. But Hannah showed me "real stuff". We were in Harlow as well as Cambridge. I don't have "dreamy visions" of any country.

Where in the world? I have been to Cairo, I have been to Nairobi and though given the "European treatment" in both countries, one could easily see behind the facade of the beauty and history.

My mother in her day, travelled several time to the former Soviet Union. She was also in Calcutta, etc.

Well, back to being unable to have a conversation, and that is unfortunate.

The London Bus incident is difficult to make a drama about as it is so brief. I think it's a little easier to make a film about 9/11 or a war.

Back to square one, and no need to pursue this further.
Unfortunate.


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