# Argh..... I am the most indecise girl in the world



## Guest (Nov 19, 2004)

Can you relate? I can't, just can't stick with one med. I am afraid to be off meds. I am afraid with meds (AD). I WANT so much to stick with one med and forget it. But each time since 18 months, I try a couple of days, weeks, then I say : it's worse like that, etc. etc.

I am so tired of myself. So tired. Yesterday I choosed Anafranil. Well, I had trouble to sleep, rapid heartbeat, and today I feel very anxious, DP. I have BIG headaches. I don't know if I had rather choose Effexor. Even if the first week was hell, or Zoloft, who help depression (a bit).

I just can't say if med works for me of not. I am troubled.

All I know is w/o meds, I feel so anxious and depressed that I want to die. So I have to stick with an antidep. But I am so anxious and afraid of all I have read about AD, that it's hard for me to have faith is something. I am stuck in a vicious cycle.

And I know Paxil helped my DP and fear of schizo but not depression. And not derealization. And Zoloft helped depression but not DP/DR!!! And Celexa never did a thing. And Effexor... well I tried it one week, and felt drugged and very very anxious, with dilated pupils and blurred vision.

I don't feel well lately. I am messed up. I don't know me anymore.

Please someone help me.

Cynthia


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## DM (Aug 12, 2004)

Cynthia,

maybe this is part of your problem...

you're so obsessed with medication that you are not thinking and talking about what really is bothering you.

Do not get me wrong - meds can help to relieve symptoms. But in your case nothing seems to help. And your obsessive thoughts are so focused on medication that you are not allowing yourself to stand still and find out what is really bothering you.

As meds don't seem to help you at all - probably you don't need them and you'll have to find a cure somewhere else. You'll have to find a different kind of medication...

And you know that I am talking about psychotherapy...

With a therapist who will break your obsession with meds and denial and will open your eyes for what really is bothering you...

If you continue like this people will lose their interest in you...Not only on this forum, but also in your 'real' life, and if you you go to other forums and find other friends the same will happen. You'll feel more and more despair...

Please, don't torment yourself any longer and face the truth - face reality.

Just a hint :wink:


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2004)

I think you are not alone Cynthia. Many of us are afraid of medication/don't know which to take/don't stay with one long enough/worry about side effects and withdrawal, etc. 
Unfortunately with the type of meds available, it is "hit and miss". What works for one person may not work for another. 
The only advice I would have is the same advice I give myself (but don't listen to): keep trying. With anti-depressant medication, you simply have to take it long enough and at high enough dose before you can know if it will help. If, after giving it a reasonable try the med does not help you, try another one. That is the only way to find out if you can be helped with anti-deps. It is the lucky person who finds one that works right from the start.

p.s. - J'aime la maniere que vous ecrivez l'anglais. There's always a little something there to make me smile (as opposed to my French, which is still usually unintelligible.)


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## dreamcatcher (Sep 23, 2004)

cynthia....you need to try to stay on an ad for a few months to find out if its going to benefit you at all....cant your gp give u zoloft for the deppression and a different med for the anxiety? i know you are scared of meds..i am too but we have to perservere to hopefully get the results we need.....i think you are dissapointed that the meds arent giving you instant relief...give them a chance.....and you know most of us on this forum are here for you......hope you feel a bit less troubled soon


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2004)

Des,

I really hope people will not let me down. 

I doN't know if you recall, but you were ill one day, and you were admitted in a hospital. So you know what I am talking about.

I try so much, SO MUCH, you don't even know. I try to think that maybe, with no meds.... but just the tought of it makes me so sick, physically and mentally! Then I want to die, and it's unbearable, I can't do it. I am so sad. I tried last year, 2 weeks of HELL w/o any meds. It was panick attack after panick attack, I felt almost out-out-my-body, 2 d vision was urgh, I fel so much DP....I ended up crying and shaking all the time. I can't face it. I am not strong. I just can't!!!! I have no hope.

I DO therapy, since 18 months, I opened up about all my fears. I swear. I still see my psychologist. But I still have dissociation and it's unbearable. I feel so BAD! You can't imgine. I can't control my emotions w/o meds.

And if I remember, you still take med, you still take a benzo.

I try so much since 18 months, I try I swear. I swear I tried to face it (my life). But I panick so much, that my boyfriend wants to leave me. And I can't go outside. And I don't take care well of my baby.

Maybe you have right, but I feel sooooo depressed.

Excuse for the post. I feel not strong at all. I am tired and I know, all the people around me are tired. What can I do? I am tired that's all.

C


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2004)

Okay, this is what you need to do. (I'll step up and just take over, lol)

stay on an antidepressant, and I swear to you, it doesn't even matter WHICH one at this point. Pick one and stay on it. And take the klono as needed.

Get into therapy that is more than once a week. you need to be talking to someone at least twice a week, to help you through the massive changes in your life that are expressing themselves in the horrible mental states you're experiencing.

I'm here and I'm not gonna get tired of you, but other than that part about people giving up on you, Des was right in the rest of his post.

The solution MUST come, for you, given your particular set of circumstances and things you've told me, MUST come from therapy. you can still take meds, but the obsession about WHICH meds to take - that energy and obsessing needs to go into working on yourself in a therapy situation.

I love ya, and I hear your pain and I am very sorry you're feeling so terrible...but I have to keep saying what I know will CHANGE things for you, rather than just playing along with an approach that is clearly not working.

Love,
J


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## DM (Aug 12, 2004)

I know that you are tired - and that you feel horrible.

But as I have said - there should be a turning point. And as with I marketing (what have I done, what should I do) I can only give you an advice from my perspective.

I once was totally lost - the same as you are right now. I was also looking for a magical solution. I also sweared by meds and once they did not work I was looking for others.

They confronted me with this (hospitalized psyco-therapy in the woods :lol: ). Cold turkey. They laughed at my 'illness'. Felt miserable. Felt like I was going insane. Instead of comforting words they increased my anxiety levels to such an extent that it couldn' be worse. Made up the balance, got very angry and by that that I regained some control over my life.

And I was not by meds, it was because I was so fed up with everything that I concluded for myself that everything was better, even insanity and death, than DP. And that I started to face my my worst things.

Hope that you will get angry more often instead of anxious.

Sympathy will not help you - I speak from my own experience. It's nice to have sympathy - it's nicer not to need it. And much healthier.


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## Misty (Nov 17, 2004)

Effoxer works for me, but it took about two weeks for the "drugged" feeling to go away completly. But of course it doens't work for everyone. I agree with everyone when they say find one and stick with it. It won't work in just one week. It takes at least two weeks to get into your system and then another two weeks to see if it works for you. Give the med a chance to try and work before you give up. Talk with your Pschcitrist. They can help deside what med is right for you. But give it a chance....


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Cynthia? Are you able to get drugs compounded?...made by a pharmicist?
At one point my doctor had the pharmicist make me up some liquid Prozac. I started on a 1/4 tsp...then worked my way up to what was the equivalant of 1/2 of a 10 mg dose ( I believe that is the lowest dose of Prozac. Someone correct me if I am wrong. )

I was able to work my system up slowly by doing this and avoided the awful headaches and stomach sickness. Although I did not stay on Prozac, something along these lines may be helpful for you if you do want to try the med track.

Like you and sc and a lot of others on this site...I have Pill Phob. 

Des, what you went thru sounds awful and great at the same time. I'm glad it worked for you and that your country does offer something like that. Pretty cool. 8)

terri*


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## Inflammed (Aug 10, 2004)

Cynthia said:


> Can you relate? I can't, just can't stick with one med. I am afraid to be off meds. I am afraid with meds (AD). I WANT so much to stick with one med and forget it. But each time since 18 months, I try a couple of days, weeks, then I say : it's worse like that, etc. etc.


C'est le cercle vicieux des m?dicaments ca, je me sentais exactement comme ca quand j'en prenais Cynthia.
Peur de les prendre, peur de ne pas les prendre.

PS : Les Om?gas3 agissent exactement comme les anti-depresseurs, ils ?levent le taux de s?rotonine mais sans aucun effets-secondaires.
L'activit? physique a aussi le m?me effet.
J'ai essay? 3 fois de prendre des m?dicaments pour m'aider et chaque fois ca a juste empir? mon ?tat.


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## Johanna (Aug 15, 2004)

Cynthia,

I had the same med obsession (among others). I was all the time writing down different combinations other people at the forum had found useful, and even now when I have been feeling much better I still can't throw out those papers.

I have been on Remeron (antidep) for a while now which has been useful - I think - for the depression, but what comes to DP/DR, the only solution for me was turning myself away from the introspection, neglect of DP and forcing myself to stop obsessing. A cold truth for me really was, that I had to find the strength to stop the inner monologue. For a long time I thought I had to get well before I could start living again, and I didn't do anything as I could't enjoy doing anything. But little by little I just managed to focus less and less on symptoms, and the recovery had started sooner than I could have ever hoped.

Hang on there, you are gonna make it.

Luv, Johanna


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2004)

Johanna,

I completely agree with your advice. I spent the past 3 months waiting for recovery but I'm slowly realizing that you need to actually live and do things (which Des mentioned before) in order to move forward.

I'm currently reaching a point where insanity, death ... all of it is beginning to not scare me since DP/DR is so bad that I'm willing to lose it all.

I've been trying to spend more time with people, go outside .. regardless of the consequences. I have crazy, obsessive thoughts and am learning how to ignore them, not be afraid of them and move forward.

I can only speak for myself, but maybe you should not look backwards and try to find the life "before DP/DR" but instead look into the future and form a new life for yourself. We can never bring back the past but we can work on the "now".

Good luck Cynthia!


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## genie (Aug 13, 2004)

I am going to probably repeat what others have said on this thread and advise you to chose one med and STICK to it. For at least a couple of months - even if it feels like it is not helping that much and even if it is giving you a few side effects.

Here is a story from my experience. When my anxiety first started I was prescribed Celexa. About a day after I took it my anxiety levels rocketed and felt unbearable and I then found out SSRI anti-depressants can make anxiety worse in the first few weeks. I figured my increased anxiety must be a side effect of Celexa - it receached an unbearable level and in the end I had to stop taking that drug.

Anyway, to cut a long story short about 6 months later - when my anxiety had calmed down a little I took Celexa again - and I was fine.

The point to this story is that looking back I know it wasn't the Celexa that caused the anxiety the first time round. It was me. I was so anxious about taking medication and how it would effect my anxiety levels rocketed and I got a whole load more symptoms.

If you take any medication and are almost waiting to see how it makes you feel you are bound to start feeling weird. If you take a new med and suddenly you DP/DR feels worse it is probably because you are focusing on it even harder than normal as you are waiting to see how the meds will affect it.

Do you see what I mean by all this? If you take a new med and you get a headache you will think its the med that is causing it but maybe you would have had a headache that day whether you had started a new med or not.

No meds are going to solve the problem. They are only there to take the edge of the symptoms. I know I dont know you but from all your posts you sound like someone who a) has many obsessions and b) is very vunerable to suggestion (which is hardly supprising as you must be so desperate by now to get better)

This is just my personal opinion but I would say that any councilling type of therapy would not be the answer for you. By discussing your feelings over and over won't be a help. You would be better off having some CBT or learning coping strategies and ways to DEAL with your current situation, how you feel and your obsessions. Again that is just my opinion but its what I would suggest.

Have you tried many types of therapy because rather than trying all those different meds I think you would be better trying a different theraputic approach.

You also need to try to do new things a step a time. I wouldn't even start to think about going and being able to work at the moment. You need to have a period of stability before you do that, but instead try each day to work towards your target of being ok again. Each day do one think you haven't been able to do in a while because of DP and gradually work your way up.

This is kind of what I have done and I am virtually ok now.

But just to reiterate anxiety can do all sorts of weird things to you and give you all sorts of weird symtoms and my guess is that it is the anxiety you have whilst taking meds that causes you symptoms, RATHER THAN the meds themselves.

And like I said, don't look for the answer in medication. Whatever you chose it will probably do more or less the same thing, but look for answers elsewhere and in changing yourself and the way of thinking you have got yourself stuck in.

Feel free to PM if you ever want to chat/want any advice and take care.

I know you must be so sick of feeling the way you do and it feels like it has gone for so long but you WILL get better eventually. I really believe you will!

Genie x


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2004)

Thanks,

I will read your messages and try to take good advices.

I just have another question : Why Luvox is so unpopular? I have many obsessions and wonder about this med. Why Paxil is more popular than Luvox? What are side effects?

And is it normal that Effexor worsen DP and DR at the beggining? 1 week and I had dilated pupils, blurred vision and felt like someone else? Should I stay and wait????

Paxil was the best for me (DP) but after went Zoloft. Never helped fo my bubble (hhorible derealization). I realise that jus with Klonopin I feel horribly bad , bad anxiety, feel like I will go crazy, etc. Antidep makes something else to me. Because just klonopin, argh. I go crazy.

And I have those insurances who are following me, it's bvery difficult. Have to take one med and stick with it.

See, I am again in a trouble.

Thanks very much for all who are writing to me.

Cynthia xxx


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Cynthia, 
Its a common side effect for effexor to cause dilated pupils. I kind of think that its effects on norepinephrine would make you more anxious, but I could be wrong. I think Anafranil is a great choice, and just to make you feel better, because I KNOW you'll be checking back to see the replies on this thread, I've included a link of a study done on Anafranil's use in depersonalization. Hope this is new to you:
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/depersonclom.htm

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

PS- Luvox is a good med for obsessions, but surprisingly, Anafranil is the strongest of the SSRI's and a last ditch med for people with refractory OCD ( the kind that wont go away). Its technically a tryciclic as well... So in my opinion, this is the first med I would put you on for your problems. Oh, and women seem to do better on it than men. I dont think anyone knows why. Good luck and

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2004)

Hi, 

My doc repscrobed me Anafranil 10 mg, for 2 weeks. I took it one day and immedialtey thought of all the consequences : not good for womans who wants to have babies later, not good before a surgery, even dentist, not good for the heart, for glaucoma (!) hehe, problematic for those who can trigger shizophrenia or latent psychosis, etc. I got VERY informed.

My dad had a heart attack last year, and I am afraid to become schizo with this med. I know my psy wouldn't have prescribing me if he thought I was becoming psychotic, but I stay afraid.

And I think tricyclic aren't good for memory. Am I wrong?

The first time I took it I had palpitations and couln't sleep well. Then I felt very Dp and had nausea. I felt very asleep. I feel very sad and don't know what to do.

I am at a point am so nervous, I think of all the consequences, and I am VERY afraid to take a med people doesn't know well. I mean, all the people I know are on a SSRI, not a tryciclic.

I am so afraid the days, I just want to be OK. I don't want to ruin my health with a med. But why can't I tought a med enough to go back to work? 

Maybe I should give it a try for real. You know, Christmas is coming, and I want so much to be in a stabilised state, not a panicky state like I am now, just with klonopin. I feel not normal.

thnaks,

Cynthia

p.s. The thing about the hospital, it was to see a psychiatrist, who WORKS in a hospital specialised in anxious issues. Not to be hospitalised.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2004)

Hi,

I am so sad today.... no meds but hard sadness. I don't see the meaning of continue like this.... I don't see the light! I feel too horrible to describe.

I cry many times a day, I feel like I have gone completely stupid. Maybe if I choose one med and stick with it I'd be cured?

I just want to feel a bit myself and go to normal life.... right now I cry many times a day, I fel too bad. I hate life, it's not normal! 

Please just give me a word of hope. Tell me it's depression and once treated I will be cured. Make me believe in a miracle, today, please comfort me.  I feel so alone, I am tired and too sad.

Cynthia xxx


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Cynthia, 
Given the current studies done, I think that Klonopin and Anafranil might be an unbeatable combination. You really shouldnt feel much at 10 mg...I was on 150mg a day. I'm afraid it might be a placebo effect, where what your hoping or afraid might happen to your symptoms does. Even if not, it IS okay for women who want to have more babies, they just cant be pregant or nursing while taking it. As for the psychosis, its the same as with any other antidepressant, I'm afraid-if you are a diagnosed manic depressive or psychotic, it will probably touch off an episode. It isnt known, however, to touch off these side effects in people who have never had them. Eventhough everyone calls this a TRIcylic, its really a heterocyclic, meaning that it stops the reuptake of two neurotransmitters, in this case serotonin and norepinephrine. Really, its a good med for someone in bad shape. They actually use it on people with cancer because it seems to help people with chronic pain. And you dont have to use it forever. Six months to a year is the recommended duration of therapy, although some people ask to stay on a low dose indefinitely. You might want to check on that other DP board on MSN- there was a woman on there for a long time with DP who found Anafranil really helped her out. She was married with children. If she's not still on there, you can look her up in the archives and read some of her heartening posts. I beleive her name began with an A...Angela? I cant remember. Anyways, I would stick with your Anafranil/Klonopin combo, and maybe even step up the Anafranil a bit. By the way, you dont have thyroid problems, do you? Those can make you hypersensitive to small doses of meds, because your body isnt excreting them quickly enough. I meant to tell SC that the other day...oh well. Hopefully he'll read this too. There is one side effect you'll probably get on this med- weight gain. It melts away afterwards, but at the time, it does a little bit of damage to your vanity. Worth sacrificing to tame the DP though, right?

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2004)

Hi Homeskooled,

Did it help you for DP? And panic attacks? We you able to concentrate? Because with all my stress and meds, I have 0 memory. I am afraid of that.

Thanks,

Cynthia xx


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2004)

Hi

Finally my psy talked to me over the phone and repeat that we must treat my depression first. So I will restart Zoloft, then maybe add mething else after (like Anafranil)

I think it may be a good decision. Anyway I will do it.

Thanks!

Cynthia xxx


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