# Reality isn't real DP/DR free



## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

I wanted to say that I've been through the worst of the worst when it comes to DP/DR, experiencing it day in and day out for 6 years chronically and now I'm 100 percent dp/dr free, everything appears "real" nothing looks fake or animated and life doesn't feel like a movie and my body doesn't feel alien /robotic/ animated anymore.

This has been the biggest mind fuck I never thought was possible, You know how when you're dp/dr'd you can't remember what "reality"even feels like well guess what when you get back to normal "reality" you can't even really remember what dp /dr felt like. Now imagine my situation, I go through 6 years of hell in dp/dr land never thought I would come out "normal" again and here I am free of dp/dr and feeling normal.

Now what really bothers me is what an absolutely completely surreal experience the whole thing was, it's like being in a 6 year long dream and waking up only to realize you're back where you started...

After about a year of trying to figure out what exactly had happened and the correlations that tied everything together i've come to the conclusion that "Normal" and "Reality" is not real, it's a lie an illusion. Reality is subjective and needs a conscious subjective experiencer (ego symbolic consciousness). "reality" and "normal" is just a form of comfortable consciousness in which you are content with your body awareness, mind and your environment. It's only an illusion of balanced awareness. The normal reality in which you see and feel and smell the world around you and experience as real is a union of belonging and understanding which occurs unconsciously and so consciously your mind is content with it's existence and does not alienate. Rather the normal content consciousness is a form of restrictive reality tunnel which filters that which it doesn't need.

On the other hand dp/dr reality is a very uncomfortable, no subjective experiencing sort of unrestricted form of reality that is chaotic, anxiety inducing and unconsciously operational (view as if your actions are robotic/like your watching a movie of your life etc)

What I have gathered is a lot of you have put yourselves out there into different planes of thought and are stuck in fear based thought loops, a lot of you like myself are analytical and deeply philosophical, you search for answers to many questions and overwhelm your minds. A lot of you have OCD, Anxiety, Depression, Panic attacks etc, a lot of you are your own worst enemies stuck in irrational fears and prisoners of your own mind and it's own devices.

You won't find answers unless you make changes if no change occurs time doesn't exist, you are like a clock and every change you make will put you further in time and every habit you repeat will keep you suspended in time. Seek change push the boundaries and most of all question your deepest and darkest fears, as long as you have those fears in you, you cannot transcend your own devils, demons, schizo fear, insanity, whatever unknown dark fear that keeps you stupid and insane.

Remember the game is not on the outside, the game is on the inside and the outside is a world of illusions there to test you, you must show if you are the fool or if you are the wise. Wisdom isn't knowing like many of you philosophers here know a lot of things, Wisdom is doing what you know and a lot of you still don't believe in your own wisdom.

There are no pills


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## cass75 (Apr 23, 2009)

Ok can you tell us how you were cured? Please?


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2010)

not what i needed to hear at the moment.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2010)

cass75 said:


> Ok can you tell us how you were cured? Please?


Yes, please Enlighten us on how you overcame DP/DR.


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## dustyn916 (Oct 24, 2010)

i actually found this to be the most legit post i have read on this sight..... i think that cured storys and listening to what other people say works is just a temporary boost in confidence, i think the awnser is truly within yourself and what you do to better yourself... its all up to you in the end if you really want to get rid of DP/DR only you have the awnser.









Nice post.


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## cass75 (Apr 23, 2009)

Nope sorry-cannot just say that.....


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## TheLostOne (Oct 23, 2010)

You're an egotistical moron who thinks he's more philosophical then you really are. Don't push your crap filled ideas on people. If you really care about the people on these boards and forums you wouldn't post stuff that's so negative. You said that you don't remember what DP/DR felt like once you were cured... so then why are you telling me (and others) that it's all in my head. Oh, and thank you for calling everyone with DP/DR stupid... it really credits your post.

I've changed my way of thinking and it hasn't changed a thing. You ARE NOT a professional or expert in this matter so please don't tell me to just change my thinking and I'll get better. This is an actual disorder and like a lot of disorders, it's not a matter of simply changing your thinking. Some people have imbalances and need actual medical help. Nobody has really found the solution to DP/DR.

You said it yourself, we (the people with DP/DR) are philosophical... then I'm PHILOSOPHICALLY telling you you're full of $***. Just because something didn't work for you doesn't mean it won't or doesn't work for someone else. For some people, it IS a matter of "getting out of their own head" and just letting their system/brain get back to reality. Others, it might not be so simple.

How did you get DP/DR? Mine wasn't a result of stress or weed. So, I'd assume if you actually have had it for that long you'd realize that it's not a matter of "change your thinking."

If you're going to post advice, 1. dont belittle what people are going through by saying their fears are stupid. 2. Do some research. 3. Try and encourage people. Don't discourage them from at least seeking help with this problem. It took me years to finally come to a point where I'm ready to start dealing with this...


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Yes, please Enlighten us on how you overcame DP/DR.


It was the long process of inner work through suffering gaining inner wisdom, by using wisdom to defeat the fool(i is the fool, i is the wise), of learning how my mind worked by not giving into it's linear games, pushing through my fears and breaking down the cycles which kept perpetuating the depersonalization/derealization. (obsessive thinking/fears, ocd compulsions,quicksand depression, irrational anxieties, abort the mothership panic attacks) these are all tricks in the game that use one as a catalyst for the other once you give in to one and repeat in cycles running amok your whole mind turning it into a runaway train beast that you live inside of because you believe you are your mind. The hardest part is to spontaneously stop the cycle by breaking one link in the chain and becoming aware of each one and how it effects you because you live in your mind so much and feel like you can't control and can't escape it at the same time. Yet you must realize that anything that happens will only happen now in the present dimension that you're in, and that you have always been in. Fear is like a vampire if vampire sucked rational thought instead of blood, it's your job to stand up to it and go past your mental fear by accepting it and understanding it(depersonalization/derealization) *"what you resist only persists"*- carl jung ,so if the fear is always something dark and unknown, it darkens the mind and keeps it blind and makes your body scared and thus you obey it's fear and get stuck in irrational mind (see my sentence on not giving into linear games of mind". *"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious"*. ~ Carl Jung. Then Fear can be anything you make it to be, it could be the devil, it could be the psychopath, it could be a demon, it could be schizophrenia , it could be death, it could be anything you make it because really it's just something you don't understand and you can't intelligently contemplate through a linear dualistic black and white good and evil operating system. It's ALL up to you, it's up to you take control of your own life, no one else is gonna do it for you and no pill is gonna come up and cure you that's just an absurd pipe dream.

It's not something that i can explain in a couple of sentences and whala you're cured, it doesn't work that way. Every person has their own subjective mental operating system and it's own glitches which they operate on. And everyone can only see things through their own eyes and in their own shoes making everything a game of subjectivity so if you're relying too heavily on your own perspective then you are definitely lost. I implore you all to not be afraid of yourselves and your existence, You all very much do exist very much so and you are all alive very much so and you are all supposed to be free and happy and you will be if you just believe in yourself and you are not your mind. The mind is nothing but a tool yet you have gone too far and embedded yourselves into the beast of mind through fears,obsessive ruminations,deep analytical philosophical thought loops etc." The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master" You have to go back and find who the servant mind is supposed to serve. That's what you've been looking for already haven't yall ? you've been looking for yourselves haven't you ? you've been looking in the wrong place. One cannot find himself in the mind, one is not his or her name, one is not the numerical value of ones age either, one is not his language nor a memory. In other words I wasn't born so and so, i was born a being of life, before I had a name, before I had an Identity, before i had an ego, all I was was a being.

Here and Now is all one is

understand what makes one here and now

being the being

Understand that fear wants you to run away, to run away from yourself and when you run away from yourself thats when the dissociation happens because your mind has become a threat to your own self. Until you fight that threat instead of running away from it you will not lose your dissociation. The only way to fight fear is with love and love has it's own intelligence and order to it, love is a subjective word has different meanings to different people so take these words with a grain of salt. But love is always in your heart and if you don't believe in your heart then you cannot even begin to exist as a being, use the love in your heart to find love for yourself so that you respect yourself (your being) in the moment , look at yourself with the eyes of truth as to not be led astray into illusion and so that your heart beats with the heart beat of truth with it's being.

You can be anyone you want to be in the game of the mind but "Those who look without, dream. Those who look within, awaken ..."

wake up fool. get real.



> not what i needed to hear at the moment.


Don't worry buddy you are as real as you want to be what I meant was normal reality isn't really the archetypical reality , the beauty is that reality and life in general is something beyond words and is a huge fucking mystery with many different dimensions to it, it is pretty much eternal and boundless wonderful and very beautiful to the mind that can see.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

TheLostOne said:


> You're an egotistical moron who thinks he's more philosophical then you really are. Don't push your crap filled ideas on people. If you really care about the people on these boards and forums you wouldn't post stuff that's so negative. You said that you don't remember what DP/DR felt like once you were cured... so then why are you telling me (and others) that it's all in my head. Oh, and thank you for calling everyone with DP/DR stupid... it really credits your post.
> 
> I've changed my way of thinking and it hasn't changed a thing. You ARE NOT a professional or expert in this matter so please don't tell me to just change my thinking and I'll get better. This is an actual disorder and like a lot of disorders, it's not a matter of simply changing your thinking. Some people have imbalances and need actual medical help. Nobody has really found the solution to DP/DR.
> 
> ...


There's a lot of fear,rigidity, impatience, frustration, anger and negativity in your post.

Ask yourself why you posted your response in such an angry, hateful, frustrated matter and maybe you would see that I'm in a better position then you are.. Then maybe you would take the time to realize that you are still stuck in your head with your hate, anger, fear, negativity and frustration. Whilst I'm dp/dr free and feel 100 percent fine after having dp/dr chronically for 6 years. Maybe even after that you would then step outside of your own hateful angry rigid head and see that I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to help people.. I would have just forgotten about it like it's so easy to forget . In the end it's only yourself that can help you because no matter what you're still going to have to live with yourself.

Now take the time to ask yourself if you're happy with you and your life.

I know the answer to that question but do you ?


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## ROBO (Jul 29, 2010)

nice post.. like your way of thinking..


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

What exactly do you mean when you say "reality isn't real?"


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> What exactly do you mean when you say "reality isn't real?"


He's talking about the subjectivity of perception. Reality is the Objective World, and we can only hope to align our subjective minds as best we can to it. "Real" is a matter of perception, Reality is in the eye of the beholder. I think that is what he means.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> He's talking about the subjectivity of perception. Reality is the Objective World, and we can only hope to align our subjective minds as best we can to it. "Real" is a matter of perception, Reality is in the eye of the beholder. I think that is what he means.


I was just interested in knowing if he meant that we are unable to perceive anything objectively.

If he did mean that I was going to point out that he had made an objective statement by saying "reality is subjective."


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## FoXS (Nov 4, 2009)

i think he wants to say that its up to ourselves how we experience the world and that we should not wait for something to happen but be active in the changing.


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## TheLostOne (Oct 23, 2010)

UniversalShape said:


> There's a lot of fear,rigidity, impatience, frustration, anger and negativity in your post.
> 
> Ask yourself why you posted your response in such an angry, hateful, frustrated matter and maybe you would see that I'm in a better position then you are.. Then maybe you would take the time to realize that you are still stuck in your head with your hate, anger, fear, negativity and frustration. Whilst I'm dp/dr free and feel 100 percent fine after having dp/dr chronically for 6 years. Maybe even after that you would then step outside of your own hateful angry rigid head and see that I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to help people.. I would have just forgotten about it like it's so easy to forget . In the end it's only yourself that can help you because no matter what you're still going to have to live with yourself.
> 
> ...


The reason I posted what I did was because what you posted was very negative to those that actually still have DP/DR, and if you know anything about DP/DR it's that it's commonly associated with depression. So for you to say "there are no pills", can be interpreted "there is no hope." Obviously a lot of people in her realize that their thinking isn't right, but JUST changing their type of thinking isn't going to be enough. Some people need to seek help and so you're basically saying that if they can't change their thinking or mindset then they'll never get better. When, you don't know that your theory is the cure to DP/DR.

Did you miss the part where I have DP/DR? Obviously I'm not thrilled with that aspect of my life, but there's a lot of other things that I am. I have an A.S. in Web Development, and I'm getting my Bachelors, I have 2 amazing nieces, I'm not lacking anything, so aside from the DP/DR, I am. So please don't pretend like you know me.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

It's possible that your dp just went into remission by itself. That does happen to a lot of people. As for trying to "think" your way out of this like you did then congratulations. This is example of success for cognitive behaviour therapy. If only it was that easy for everyone. With me, and for a lot of people here, we are so zoned out we have no thoughts (positive or negative) floating around in our minds at all most of the day. Our dp has taken away any emotional thoughts or feelings. So how can we change our thinking when there's no thoughts in our heads to change?

As for reality being a subjective thing I think how we place value on our reality is subjective, but not the process of physically perceiving it. For example, we all can look at a harmless snake and see it as being real. But some of us will interpret that snake to be dangerous and scary while others see it as truly harmless. However, that snake should look "real" to everyone. Another example is the sensation of touching and feeling heat or cold, or hearing soft or loud sounds. It's not a philosophical process. It's just a matter of signals travelling to the brain and being processed into something we can understand. Signals that tell us that something is too hot to touch or too loud to listen to does not need no philosophical interpretation in an emotional or subjective way. It just tells us of the reality of what we are feeling or hearing and what is physically comfortable or not comfortable.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

TheLostOne said:


> The reason I posted what I did was because what you posted was very negative to those that actually still have DP/DR, and if you know anything about DP/DR it's that it's commonly associated with depression. So for you to say "there are no pills", can be interpreted "there is no hope." Obviously a lot of people in her realize that their thinking isn't right, but JUST changing their type of thinking isn't going to be enough. Some people need to seek help and so you're basically saying that if they can't change their thinking or mindset then they'll never get better. When, you don't know that your theory is the cure to DP/DR.
> 
> Did you miss the part where I have DP/DR? Obviously I'm not thrilled with that aspect of my life, but there's a lot of other things that I am. I have an A.S. in Web Development, and I'm getting my Bachelors, I have 2 amazing nieces, I'm not lacking anything, so aside from the DP/DR, I am. So please don't pretend like you know me.


I have to say, the way you responded was very abusive. If you don't like what someone says that's fine but responding like that really isn't going to help your case.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

flat said:


> It's possible that your dp just went into remission by itself. That does happen to a lot of people. A*s for trying to "think" your way out of this like you did then congratulations*. This is example of success for cognitive behaviour therapy. If only it was that easy for everyone. With me, and for a lot of people here, we are so zoned out we have no thoughts (positive or negative) floating around in our minds at all most of the day. Our dp has taken away any emotional thoughts or feelings. So how can we change our thinking when there's no thoughts in our heads to change?
> 
> As for reality being a subjective thing I think how we place value on our reality is subjective, but not the process of physically perceiving it. For example, we all can look at a harmless snake and see it as being real. But some of us will interpret that snake to be dangerous and scary while others see it as truly harmless. However, that snake should look "real" to everyone. Another example is the sensation of touching and feeling heat or cold, or hearing soft or loud sounds. It's not a philosophical process. It's just a matter of signals travelling to the brain and being processed into something we can understand. Signals that tell us that something is too hot to touch or too loud to listen to does not need no philosophical interpretation in an emotional or subjective way. It just tells us of the reality of what we are feeling or hearing and what is physically comfortable or not comfortable.


It's not thinking your way out, you are misinterpreting what I say possibly because you are so dependent on thought and mind as the foundation for your existence. It's not thought, you can't simply think your way out, thoughts are just symbolic tools based on language created by man for gaining understanding and communication, it's how you live your life, it's what you come to understand, wisdom isn't knowing or thinking something, WISDOM IS DOING. Philosophers know so much about nothing that they become nothing, this world is for the doer's not the thinkers, The thinkers are useless without action and awareness of the physical body. The more deeper and deeper you think the further and further you come from your own awareness of your being. The mind is like an ocean, the deeper you think the deeper you sink and the deeper you think the darker it gets and harder the questions become to answer. For those obsessed they drown themselves in the dark deep ocean of mind with no light to shine on their questions. The ego strives to be special and unique and creates it's own blindness to the common singularity and correlation amongst all life, it becomes a beast.



> Signals that tell us that something is too hot to touch or too loud to listen to does not need no philosophical interpretation in an emotional or subjective way. It just tells us of the reality of what we are feeling or hearing and what is physically comfortable or not comfortable.


Yet is it the "reality" ?

Is it not the subjective interpretation of what is or what isn't ?

For one it is not too loud or too hot for other's it is too loud and too hot. Take a buddhist monk for instance, there have been cases of buddhists monks torching their whole bodies with gasoline induced fire and not even flinching til death. Now for others that fire would have been shockingly torturous but for that monk it was apparently bearable.

There is also the matter of Noumenon and Phenomenon

_Noumenon_ is the object or thing as it is in itself independent of the mind and not known through perception which is the opposite of _Phenomenon_ which is any event, circumstance, object or experience that is apparent to the senses and that can be scientifically described.

Now just take a look at the most obvious and correlative paradox amongst you all. To all of you depersonalization is very real and you cannot even deny it's existence because it is so prominent in it's ability to grab your attention. Yet to every other person living their day to day "normal reality" lives, Depersonalization/Derealization is an unfathomable reality beyond the scope of their own subjective "normal" reality. I've experienced the dynamic of both states of mind and they are so far apart and alien to each other that it's no wonder and no surprise that with dp/dr you forget what "normal reality" feels like and with "normal reality" it's almost impossible to fathom the existence of the actual Depersonalized/Derealized mind.

Also take a look the words we commonly depend on for our understandings and beliefs, words and language can be hacked and are illusory virtual reality systems which we use to communicate amongst each other. Depersonalization/Derealization is the term that we have consensually agreed upon to describe our own individual subjective experiences and symptoms yet before you knew of the term it was just your own subjective experience of "it", now through common language isn't it more comforting to feel apart of the objective consensually agreed upon definition and understanding of "it". Isn't it just a much more comfortable space to be in then the unknown isolated subjective experience of "it". What I'm getting at is look beyond words, don't become attached to symbolic superficial meanings just because they are materially there. It's not what's materially there it's what was behind the material and how it came about and one important key to seeing that is to realize that everything around you that is material/artificial/symbolic physically there whatever HAD A CONSCIOUSNESS SOURCE. EVERYTHING CAME FROM A CONSCIOUSNESS. Once you begin to see things through that deeper level, you can begin to explore deeper meaning to the world around you and gather insight into who you are.



> i think he wants to say that its up to ourselves how we experience the world and that we should not wait for something to happen but be active in the changing.


correct



> He's talking about the subjectivity of perception. Reality is the Objective World, and we can only hope to align our subjective minds as best we can to it. "Real" is a matter of perception, Reality is in the eye of the beholder. I think that is what he means.


correct



> I was just interested in knowing if he meant that we are unable to perceive anything objectively.
> 
> If he did mean that I was going to point out that he had made an objective statement by saying "reality is subjective."


No by saying reality is a subjective experience I'm still making a subjective statement, I cannot possibly state "reality is subjective" and make it out to be an objective statement, That would be paradoxical because I am still only looking at everything from my own subjective perspective and you are looking at it through your own subjective perspective (if you have a mind of your own). We develop a world view in order to consensually agree on what the world is and we get so wrapped up in that perception that cultural/ human point of view that most of us assume that's all it is and we believe it so much that we don't like it shaken up. So when dp/dr comes along we automatically start to assume we are all going insane/developing a brain tumor and the idea that dp/dr is a somewhat uncensored/unfiltered/chaotic version of the same existence goes right over our heads. I cannot possibly speak for everyone's unique subjective experiences and every single person's subjective reality and everyone is still subject to the illusion of an objective reality through a unified order/system of a common Ideology based on symbolic meaning. (Democracy, Capitalism, Communism, America land of the free etc ). Social engineer's main goal is to control the masses and create objective realities through systematic cultural operating systems like Religious and Nationalistic belief, that's how the sheep are herded.

It's the same with mental health, the common consensus around here and everywhere in America is that the only cure can come in a pharmaceutical pill prescribed by a psychiatrist. The belief pushed by a profit motive backed by multinational pharmaceutical companies. In the tribal villages of indigenous peoples they go to the shaman for answers to their mental health/life problems and it's the same way in this modern western society. Except the shaman in this culture is a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist/psychologist tells everyone what is a "disorder" and what is "normal" based on the rules/laws of society and it's effective progress (ignorant happiness, material socialization, mass consumption, low critical thinking skills, more effective/progressive work skills etc). The Shaman of the Jungle has no vested interested in telling everyone what is normal and what is accepted, the Shaman of the jungle only provides the wisdom that the spirit world/ other dimensional wisdom provides him with. In our society the majority wants to conform to what everyone in their environment believes upon consensually as to be "normal". Yet they don't realize that all this really has nothing to do with what is real, normal or meaningful.. It's all strategical framework put in place and order to create a finely tuned parts for the larger machine that is dependent on those finely tuned parts for economical progress, social effectiveness, workers earnings. mass consumption, federal state and sales taxation. It's just a system with it's own vested interested behind mostly money and power and we are engineered from an early age to be conditioned to that system.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

TheLostOne said:


> The reason I posted what I did was because what you posted was very negative to those that actually still have DP/DR, and if you know anything about DP/DR it's that it's commonly associated with depression. So for you to say "there are no pills", can be interpreted "there is no hope." Obviously a lot of people in her realize that their thinking isn't right, but JUST changing their type of thinking isn't going to be enough. Some people need to seek help and so you're basically saying that if they can't change their thinking or mindset then they'll never get better. When, you don't know that your theory is the cure to DP/DR.
> 
> Did you miss the part where I have DP/DR? Obviously I'm not thrilled with that aspect of my life, but there's a lot of other things that I am. I have an A.S. in Web Development, and I'm getting my Bachelors, I have 2 amazing nieces, I'm not lacking anything, so aside from the DP/DR, I am. So please don't pretend like you know me.


So don't get so angry and blow your wad so fast, you project everything so I don't have to know you on an intimate level to see clearly that you are unhappy. You're not as special or different as you just think you are in your little ego and it's personal accomplishments, you're just a talking head that walks on two legs just like everyone else including me.


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

wow man, that was an excellent post. sorry about some of the negative replies. i think they don't understand the content of your message in it's full depth, which is understandable considering the restricted cognitive functions that come with DP/DR. i think an important part of your message is self confidence (to put it simply), but it kinda gets lost underneath all of the detail and depth of your post. maybe they are missing that point and assuming you are trying to "school" them rather than offering sound advice. in any case good for you man. glad to hear you recovered after such a long battle.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

So to you, all reality is subjective, including the statement that all reality is subjective. How then can you say what you are saying is true?

Can't you see how that is a self-detonating statement? It's like saying "there is no such thing as truth."

I think you might find it useful to examine your definitions of what reality, subjectivity and objectivity actually are.


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

TheLostOne said:


> The reason I posted what I did was because what you posted was very negative to those that actually still have DP/DR, and if you know anything about DP/DR it's that it's commonly associated with depression. So for you to say "there are no pills", can be interpreted "there is no hope." Obviously a lot of people in her realize that their thinking isn't right, but JUST changing their type of thinking isn't going to be enough. Some people need to seek help and so you're basically saying that if they can't change their thinking or mindset then they'll never get better. When, you don't know that your theory is the cure to DP/DR.
> 
> Did you miss the part where I have DP/DR? Obviously I'm not thrilled with that aspect of my life, but there's a lot of other things that I am. I have an A.S. in Web Development, and I'm getting my Bachelors, I have 2 amazing nieces, I'm not lacking anything, so aside from the DP/DR, I am. So please don't pretend like you know me.


i think you may have missed the point a bit. saying there will never be a "magic pill" isn't so much a literal term. of course there will be, some day. they are making breakthroughs in the field of psychology everday and one day they will know exactly how to fix it. but in the mean time people cannot wait around for the miracle cure. what you need to do is change you life and thinking at the same time. obviously sitting in a room and forming new ideal about exhistence won't fix anything. it's about forming new character strengths that you use in your daily life. challenge your fears out in the real world. grow and change who you are for the better through experience. be confident in yourself.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> i think you may have missed the point a bit. saying there will never be a "magic pill" isn't so much a literal term. of course there will be, some day. they are making breakthroughs in the field of psychology everday and one day they will know exactly how to fix it. but in the mean time people cannot wait around for the miracle cure. what you need to do is change you life and thinking at the same time. obviously sitting in a room and forming new ideal about exhistence won't fix anything. it's about forming new character strengths that you use in your daily life. challenge your fears out in the real world. grow and change who you are for the better through experience. be confident in yourself.


Yes absolutely 100 percent bravo


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

> Can you answer the question
> 
> What is reality ?


The place where you obtained the information to know how to type that message.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

gill said:


> The place where you obtained the information to know how to type that message.


So your view of reality is that my mind is reality ? that nothing beyond my mind is real ? that my mind is the sole reality and anything that exists outside of the mind is all just there for the mind's own entertainment ?

IMO That is a pretty dark disproportionate view of what this energy process called life is all about, It's based on an extremely self centered ignorant premise that you or I are alone as individuals and only exist within our own Ideas and dreams of an imaginary self that exists within our illusory mental belief system called a mind.

But then again that's the prison world of an ego, the ego consciousness which separates and takes you away from the felt present moment of awareness and it's wonder / mystery and into the prison of the mind where the terrible master locks you away in a distant nostalgic memory of the past or a projected foolish pipe dream of the future. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the future can be predicted through a hidden intention. Yet you cannot do one or the other without being conscious of the present moment of awareness. Fear is what perpetuates the idea that we are only a mind and keeps you within that boundary, Fear traps you in the mind and keeps you locked up in your own prison. There is no prison but the prison in your mind. Now lets take a look at what we are afraid of. We are afraid of life itself. We are afraid of what is unknown in life because we are afraid of death. All fear ultimately stems from a fear of death. Death is what perpetuates life and without life there is no significance of death and without death there is no birth of life.

Now here is the key. If you are not afraid of death then you are not afraid of life.

Right now you are afraid of life because you are afraid of death.

Now you're thinking how can I not be afraid of death ?

Well you can not be afraid of death if you understand what death is, as a result of that understanding , you will understand what life is. One is the shadow of the other and as long you hold onto that fear of death, the closer to death you will become as it will suck your life energy away and keep you trapped in a mental prison ruled by fear and your own personal mental police man.

But since we all walk with weight of our repressed fears/sins against ourselves (because of dualistic heaven and hell religious cult operating systems) we are all made to feel guilty and unworthy of life so we judge ourselves in a dualistic fashion which only further keeps us blind and stupid. Splits us into pieces and keeps us from seeing our own wholeness/oneness/divinity.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

UniversalShape said:


> So your view of reality is that my mind is reality ?


No. I meant the place independent of your mind. Specifically, objective real.. ...


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

gill said:


> No. I meant the place independent of your mind. Specifically, objective real.. ...


Where is this place you are speaking of, I'm not too familiar with it, do you have a special ability to travel outside of your mind and reach this "objective real" ? Do you have any special extra sensory perceiving astral projection abilities that you want to share with us ? I would be more than interested as to know how they work

As far as I know to my knowledge people can only see things from the view of their own self, you look out to the external world from within your own self's perspective and when you look out to the external world without a foundation of a self you're using the dream machine in your mind, the imagination. You don't actually see things the way they are, you only see things the way you are or the way you can imagine them to be and you live your day to day life trusting that imagination of an ideal or imperfect objective reality perspective based on your emotional state. (Happy man sees a happy world, sad man sees a sad world)


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

The fact you are using the internet shows that you believe in a universal understanding of electricity, programming and engineering.

If you get an infection you take antibiotics. If you are thirsty you drink water. If you do not drink water, you die.

There are universal standards and accepted truths. Do you agree with this at least?


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

UniversalShape said:


> Where is this place you are speaking of, I'm not too familiar with it, do you have a special ability to travel outside of your mind and reach this "objective real" ? Do you have any special extra sensory perceiving astral projection abilities that you want to share with us ? I would be more than interested as to know how they work
> 
> As far as I know to my knowledge people can only see things from the view of their own self, you look out to the external world from within your own self's perspective and when you look out to the external world without a foundation of a self you're using the dream machine in your mind, the imagination. You don't actually see things the way they are, you only see things the way you are or the way you can imagine them to be and you live your day to day life trusting that imagination of an ideal or imperfect objective reality perspective based on your emotional state. (Happy man sees a happy world, sad man sees a sad world)


If people don't see things the way they are then how can you say that you know how people see things?

Surely you must be including yourself in the group of "people who cannot see things objectively."

What you are describing is something that is fixed. You are saying that it is not possible for people to see things as anything else but their subjective perception. Therefore by this logic you cannot describe anyone's perception but your own.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

what never_giving_up said,



> do you have a special ability to travel outside of your mind and reach this "objective real"


No, but that's not what I or is usually meant by 'objective'. Objective reality is that which is independent of our minds control.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> what never_giving_up said,
> 
> No, but that's not what I or is usually meant by 'objective'. Objective reality is that which is independent of our minds control.


How do you know what is usually meant by "objective" ? Look up the word Objective in a dictionary and that's what it means in the English glossary.



> If people don't see things the way they are then how can you say that you know how people see things?


Because I am a person and you are a person, see the commonality here ? I as a person have the sense to know that everything I look at, I look at through my own eyes and walking in my own shoes and that is highly subjective. Now if you think that you see things the way they are in actuality well then you are just deluding yourself because you don't. I'm 100 % certain of this

Correct me if I'm wrong but do you actually think that you see things in reality as they actually exist in reality ? That you have no personal bias when you see things around you and that you reflect from an all knowing all wise perspective ?

Sorry but that just doesn't ring true to me.



> Surely you must be including yourself in the group of "people who cannot see things objectively."


Yes I am including myself and don't call me shirley, I can only have my own subjective reality, We don't all live under 1 reality, we all have our own subjective reality (awareness of a self, our ego, identification, belief system, imagination, etc whatever makes us unique and the same) we all live with our selves from a day to day basis and yet at the same time that subjective awareness or reality can be morphed into and designed into a false objective reality or a one world view which happens to so many people. (Example Just look at exactly what Hitler did with Nazi Germany, he created the aryan race idea to gather his nations subjective awareness reality and turn it into a objective racist ideology ). In other words, critical thinking skills are needed here, one must think for oneself and one must question the higher authorities which seek to form objective realities.



> What you are describing is something that is fixed. You are saying that it is not possible for people to see things as anything else but their subjective perception. Therefore by this logic you cannot describe anyone's perception but your own.


Well no shit, can you ?

can you describe someone else perceptions ? can you even explain your own perceptions to someone who doesn't have them ? Can you go up to someone who's never experienced dp/dr and effectively communicate your subjective perspective so that the person can genuinely understand where you're coming from ?

Really now


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

edit.....

btw, don't post when your drunk or you'll have a post that ends up like this one. lol.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

Tommygunz said:


> i think you may have missed the point a bit. saying there will never be a "magic pill" isn't so much a literal term. of course there will be, some day. they are making breakthroughs in the field of psychology everday and one day they will know exactly how to fix it. but in the mean time people cannot wait around for the miracle cure.


I don't believe this, a persons psychology is so complex no pill or single method can sort such problems no matter how good it is. This sort of thinking comes from the mechanical model that people with mental disorders are broken physically like a broken car, whereas the evidence suggests more and more every year that this is out dated thinking and things are far more complex and a more holistic view is needed, even all the genetic research is suggesting now that environment and upbringing are far more important factors in mental health than genes. Everybody has an individual psychology, nobody here will have exactly the same symptoms and each person will have different levels of anxiety, depression, anger, dp, dr, which creates a complex map of their state, so each persons treatment will also have to be individual to them.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

"Because I am a person and you are a person, see the commonality here ? I as a person have the sense to know that everything I look at, I look at through my own eyes and walking in my own shoes and that is highly subjective. Now if you think that you see things the way they are in actuality well then you are just deluding yourself because you don't. I'm 100 % certain of this

Correct me if I'm wrong but do you actually think that you see things in reality as they actually exist in reality ? That you have no personal bias when you see things around you and that you reflect from an all knowing all wise perspective ?"

Don't you see you are saying that you know OBJECTIVELY how things are. Saying that EVERYONE perceives reality ENTIRELY subjectively is an ABSOLUTE OBJECTIVE STATEMENT. You are making a claim to truth.

If I accept that as true then you are immediately wrong because it is self-contradictory.

I seriously don't understand what definitions you are working with here.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

never_giving_up said:


> OK, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about now.


Who me? edit: ah you edited

The way I see it is that things exist objectively, so for example if two people look at a car then both will see the same car which exists, but then subjectively that car could mean different things to both people and have different significance depending on each persons life experiences and personality, and the whole reality of looking at the car for each person includes these meanings because they flavour the interpretation of it, therefore the reality of the looking at the car is subjective to each person.


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## BusyBee (Aug 7, 2010)

I like the start of this post, its great to see that you feel better after all going through the same as all of us, wondering if we'll ever get better.

You lost me throughout the middle and towards the end of your post. I agree with what you say about deep thinkers and intelligent people being more prone to DP: If i havnt thought so much about what options to take when i was under pressure, and just phoned the police and got a restaining order put on the bloody man like my council estate other ego i probably wouldnt be in this boat now.

However: despite that i have a talent for passing exams with top marks after never looking at the books, does not mean that I am the sort of deep thinker or intelligent person that caused myself to get DP, and can simply get myself out of it by 'thinking' correctly. I actually only just found out the meaning behind the question, 'if a tree fell down and there was no one to hear it did it make a sound?'. I am actually quite a simple mind. It took me over 20 years to understand that question, until yesterday i always answered, 'well obviously! derrr..'

So my existence consists of the seven life processes and that is about it. My thoughts consist of normal things like, 'what shall i have for tea', and at the most, 'I wonder what chemicals in my body are causing this strange symptom'.

Its the same for most of us, anxiety or no anxiety. So explain how 'thinking' alone will get us out of it.


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## never_giving_up (Jun 23, 2010)

Pablo said:


> Who me?


I originally posted that in confusion to the OP's post.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

UniversalShape said:


> ... Take for instance a chair, it exists as an object in the external world but without your own human subjective understanding of the chair and it's purpose which is for your human ass to sit on it and lets say you the subjective conscious observer of the chair had no ass or no use to sit in a chair, the objective meaning of the chair would be pretty much useless to you subjectively wouldn't it? It would just be a pile of wooden sticks put together craft fully . Would you still consider it an accepted truth, a universal standard, objective reality ? ...


Ok. But, if someone were to say, measure the mass of that chair, since the quantity of 'mass' doesn't depend on the subject's bias, I'd consider that measurement an objective measurement, in the formal sense.

Informally, just two people agreeing the chair is even there, occupying space, would be 'objective reality'.

That's what I meant, and is usually meant by it......


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

never_giving_up said:


> Ok. But, if someone were to say, measure the mass of that chair, since the quantity of 'mass' doesn't depend on the subject's bias, I'd consider that measurement an objective measurement, in the formal sense.
> 
> Informally, just two people agreeing the chair is even there, occupying space, would be 'objective reality'.
> 
> That's what I meant, and is usually meant by it......


You might want to look deeper into quantum mechanics,

I could see that no matter how much I'm going to explain, you are going to be inclined to disagree since you all live in your own subjective reality tunnels.

Anyways if anyone has a direct question about dp/dr and symptoms, send a pm and i would be more than happy to offer a word of advice.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

"I see that no matter how much I'm going to explain, you are going to be inclined to disagree since you all live in your own subjective reality tunnels"

That's because it's just philosophical. It only exists in your own way of looking at things. There is no objective proof to what you are saying.


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

I think the confusing part is that all reality has a subjective basis attached to it. There is reality that doesn't need any subjective introspection. For example, a volcano erupts, an earthquake rocks the land. This is just physical reality that needs no subjective thought on why or how it exists. It's just matter (atoms) in motion. It exists no matter how you want to perceive it.

Another example is aliens. Now you can have an "opinion" about aliens. Yes they are here or no they are not. But the fact on whether you subjectively view the existence or non-existence of life on other planets doesn't change the physical reality of their existence...or non-existence. That's why objective proof is so important. It is there for everyone to see, no matter how subjectively you want to see it.

I rest my case.


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## UniversalShape (Nov 4, 2010)

flat said:


> "I see that no matter how much I'm going to explain, you are going to be inclined to disagree since you all live in your own subjective reality tunnels"
> 
> That's because it's just philosophical. It only exists in your own way of looking at things. There is no objective proof to what you are saying.


One doesn't need objective proof for one's own existence, that is just your way of looking at things. From a material perspective. All it is, is an opinion.


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## JackDanielß (Nov 28, 2012)

I think this might be what Fearless is trying to say.


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