# Dilemma#2



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

**Content deleted because of hotmail threats to 'out me' and my 'reveal my pathetic male lustings' to my girlfriend**

Love and good-will to all.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2006)

The only thing I feel here after reading your post, Martin is that I feel like wanting to warn your girlfriend for you. Seriously.

As someone else said in one of (your) other threads, you (seem to) treat people like objects/tools. You use women for sex to fill up your own emptiness, which (almost?) seems like an addiction for you.

My advice?
Keep your dick in your pants for a change and start using your heart (that is, only if you want to stop destroying yourself and dragging others down with you-in this case, your girlfriend).

What do you think your girlfriend would think if she would read this post of yours?

And no, I dont think it is a male thing. It is a mentality-thing.

Good luck.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Indeed Wendy, they should ring the bells on top of the tallest cathedral when I'm out of the town. 'Lock up our daughters', they should shout.

I'm not denying anything you said about my psychopathology. I was just asking for advice. 'Keeping my dick in my trousers', while an undoubtedly effective technique, would be too late by then - because you, of all people, know that the monster in our trousers has a mind of it's own.

But thank you for noticing my existential angst, and your friendly help and advice. If not for me, then my poor vunerable girlfriend.

But you shouldn't worry for either of us. It's either age or, let it be whispered, wisdom, that is going to propel me towards fidelity in the long-run.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Hohoho, such a shame your post had to be deleted. Still it was prolly for the best. I should do that to some of mine:

Zap! Evil unconscious thoughts, stay in your place! I karate kick some of the shadows emerging from the back of my head. Take that (chop) and that (chop) and that (throws thought over my head by the scruff of it's neck and wrestles with it on the floor). That was good. Fighting it is definitely the answer.


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

> **Content deleted because of hotmail threats to 'out me' and my 'reveal my pathetic male lustings' to my girlfriend**


HAHAHA! I guess there are so women out there more angry at Martin than me. Well, we all get these urges, and I don't even mind so much the thoughts of sleeping with someone else. We're all animals after all. I'm more concerned with the games you play with her. The compulsive need you have to always keep things stirred up. Not that it's any of my business... Just thought I'd comment on your new strand of emails you're getting.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Oh no, it wasn't anger - it was spite.

Anger I completely understand, and indeed empathise and agree with. But not spite.


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## Guest (Dec 28, 2006)

Martinelv said:


> **Content deleted because of hotmail threats to 'out me' and my 'reveal my pathetic male lustings' to my girlfriend**
> 
> Love and good-will to all.


I actually thought, Martin you were joking here, but it seems you did get some spitefull emails?
Look, I just wanted to be honest with you in my thoughts about you having urges to cheat on your girlfriend. I think if you (or anyone else for that matter) writes about the stuff you did here, people wont actually like it.
If my possible gf would write such stuff and I would find out about it, I would show her the door. I dont want to be cheated on or run the risk of being cheated on and I dont cheat on girlfriends, let alone have sexual urges towards other women when I have a gf. Im simply not interested.

So, no, I of all people dont know it is so hard to keep my pants on when being faced with an attractive woman who wants sex with me, when being involved with someone. I just dont work that way.

It is a shame you deleted your post, but I understand, have been guilty of that myself 8)


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Oh drat. I wanted to read it.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

For the benefit of the internet police, it wasn't Wendy who sent me the spiteful emails. Rest assured, the person responsible has had to endure a 4000-odd word stinging, spiteful, vengeful, hateful, bile ridden email in return. That's one thing I'm good at. I'd be interested if Rev has had a compalint.

But anyway, yes - Wendy, I agree with you. It's a pathetic dichotomy that dominates my life. I, myself, cannot think of anything worse than betrayal, in the relationship sense. It kills me. Or in any personal sense, come to think of it. But I've done it time and time and time and time again, without a seconds thought - with only the safety guilt blanket of covering my tracks well enough that she won't know or find out. But if anyone did it to me, and I found out, I would drop her like a stone. To my knowledge, although I'm sure it has, it's never happened. That's probably incredibly niave of me. But, if I don't know, I don't care. Thing is, if I did find out that a woman had cheated on me, I'd be terribly afraid. I'm afraid of my own wrath. Time to insert a disclaimer I think: Disclaimer # 76876764; I would never physically, and have never have, harm a woman, for whatever. Rather, it would be a spectacular bout of personal self-destruction. In fact, for feminist amusement, I have gone through several epispodes of furious betrayal, that had no basis in reality - rather, I imagined it myself. And boy, did I tear up the earth.


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## Epiphany (Apr 28, 2006)

Oh, I really hate it when I miss out. Obviously I can get the gist of what it entailed but I am sorry I missed out on the opportunity to either abuse or defend you Martin (I'm never sure which it is going to be). 

So I'll just stay hands-clasped, sitting on this rickety-old picket fence for now and solenmly await the next opportunity.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

You know, I think my problem is this; I don't look at rainbow and think: "How stunning, how magical...". I look at it and think.."Hmm...a rainbow, an everyday thing....'" etc.....I look at a sunset and think..."Ah, it's just the world turning...as it has been doing for 4 billion years..."

But women take my breath away. Literally. Always have done, always will. For instance - I just took a lesuirely stroll around Cambridge during my lunch hour, and was physically staggered by the total equisitness of the women I saw. I can't help it. It's like a slap in the face. But that's probably a feeble excuse. Actually, it is. But it's the truth and I don't care.

Kick me.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2007)




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## Guest (Jan 10, 2007)

Martinelv said:


> For the benefit of the internet police, it wasn't Wendy who sent me the spiteful emails. Rest assured, the person responsible has had to endure a 4000-odd word stinging, spiteful, vengeful, hateful, bile ridden email in return. That's one thing I'm good at. I'd be interested if Rev has had a compalint.


My guess is this person who sent you those emails has been someone that has been cheated on in their lifes.



> But anyway, yes - Wendy, I agree with you. It's a pathetic dichotomy that dominates my life. I, myself, cannot think of anything worse than betrayal, in the relationship sense. It kills me. Or in any personal sense, come to think of it. But I've done it time and time and time and time again, without a seconds thought - with only the safety guilt blanket of covering my tracks well enough that she won't know or find out. But if anyone did it to me, and I found out, I would drop her like a stone.


Ain't that double standards, Martin.

Also, if you know how much it hurts to be betrayed, how do you justify to yourself inflicting that same hurt on women?



> But women take my breath away.


Sounds very charming, however I dont buy it. Because you destroy women with the cheating actions. If you really find them so breathtakingly beautiful, why would you hurt them?



> But that's probably a feeble excuse. Actually, it is. But it's the truth and I don't care.


Yes, it is an excuse, to justify your own actions and to continue to do them.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Ain't that double standards, Martin.


Yes it is.



> Also, if you know how much it hurts to be betrayed, how do you justify to yourself inflicting that same hurt on women?


I don't justify it to myself. I either block it out, or wallow in guilt.



> however I dont buy it. Because you destroy women with the cheating actions. If you really find them so breathtakingly beautiful, why would you hurt them?


Buy it. My feeble rationales are two for the price of one today. I do find women beautiful. Physically and emotionally.



> Yes, it is an excuse, to justify your own actions and to continue to do them


It's an excuse, yes, but nothing justifies my actions.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2007)

Martinelv said:


> > Yes, it is an excuse, to justify your own actions and to continue to do them
> 
> 
> It's an excuse, yes, but nothing justifies my actions.


Yes, in one way or another you justify it to yourself, otherwise you would stop doing the cheating on and using of women.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Yes, in one way or another you justify it to yourself, otherwise you would stop doing the cheating on and using of women.


Not consciously I don't. As I said, I either black it out or wallow in guilt. And besides - can we just take a couple of steps back here. You seem to get the impression that I do this on a daily basis. Yes? Or is that my pride and arrogance, burning with assumption?


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2007)

Eh, no. What is disturbing and what your attitude shows towards women you cheat on (have cheated on in the past, dont know how many, going to possibly cheat on etc), is that you DONT CARE about their feelings, only your own. And I find that selfish and apalling. That's all.

And I see/hear no effort of you to change this. You ARE aware you are doing this, yet you continue doing it. It doesnt matter how often. What matters is that you know you hurt women and that you do not care, because if you did, you would stop.

You are defending yourself here your cheating on women. You know it is not ok behavior, we all know that here.
All the best.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> You are defending yourself here your cheating on women


How, and when, have I done that?


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## Guest (Jan 12, 2007)

Im not gonna put anymore energy in you in this thread.
You lure people in and then push them away and this thread is a perfect example of you doing that. It is draining. :? :? :? :?



Martinelv said:


> > You are defending yourself here your cheating on women
> 
> 
> How, and when, have I done that?


It is obvious.

Now, go on and play with other people


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Wendy - my dear, my pearl, my flower....you seem, understandably, to mistake thinly veiled cries for help as an attack on your gender. But, again, I understand. This is your wont.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2007)

Martinelv said:


> Wendy - my dear, my pearl, my flower....you seem, understandably, to mistake thinly veiled cries for help as an attack on your gender. But, again, I understand. This is your wont.


Martin, my dear  , no really, I dont perceive your cry for help in this thread as an attack on women. Not at all. I hadnt even thought of that. But I can see it is a cry for help you were putting out there. Did you get anything out of posting that?
And btw, what is 'wont', what does it mean (looked it up in my highschooldictionary and couldnt find it).


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

Wont: Somebody's custom: A habit or a custom followed by a particular person or a group of people.

Bailee


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2007)

bailee said:


> Wont: Somebody's custom: A habit or a custom followed by a particular person or a group of people.
> 
> Bailee


Thanks Bailee. I figured it meant something like this.  
Martin thinks I a feminist. Im not. :wink:


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2007)

*Gives M60 to Martin to help deal with the females*










Give me a shout when you need more ammo man!


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

How about this then Emulated?










Still disturbing but not as much?


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

It's not how big it is... it is how you use it which counts 

Fancy using a Nazi train... tutt tutt... *shakes head in disgust* =P


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## maria (Oct 28, 2004)

But why do you need to get married? Can't you just have an open relationship without the marriage status? Since to you marriage doesn't mean "I'll love you and only you till the end of my days", which is kind of the whole point of it, why do you need to go through the seremony? *hope this is the issue in this thread* I cheated my second boyfriend three times with my ----buddy and it wasn't pretty when he found out (I had to tell him because he didn't believe my lies).


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

enngirl5 said:


> How about this then Emulated?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


F*ck me? go on? f*ck me? Bless those puppies. You win Enngirl5.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

Enngirl, I saw your post to me last night and want to say I found your post and picture hilarious 

This was my answer:










And Im not gonna send her after any man to fight (as that would be a waste), Im keeping her for myself :wink:


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

Wendy said:


> Im keeping her for myself :wink:


Keep her, I like women with hair (but not under the arm pits)


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> Wendy said:
> 
> 
> > Im keeping her for myself :wink:
> ...


Well, thank you :lol:


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2007)

Wendy said:


> Emulated Puppet}eer said:
> 
> 
> > Wendy said:
> ...


NOOOOO *grabs her other arm* MINE! Grrrrrr :twisted: or how bout threesom :wink: :roll:


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> NOOOOO *grabs her other arm* MINE! Grrrrrr :twisted:


Too late!! :wink: 8)


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2007)

Wendy said:


> Emulated Puppet}eer said:
> 
> 
> > NOOOOO *grabs her other arm* MINE! Grrrrrr :twisted:
> ...


Well mine's bigger then yours ... so there ( yeah yeah go find a picture of a 18 inch dildo) =P


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

> Enngirl, I saw your post to me last night and want to say I found your post and picture hilarious
> 
> And Im not gonna send her after any man to fight (as that would be a waste), Im keeping her for myself


haha! cool.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

maria said:


> But why do you need to get married? Can't you just have an open relationship without the marriage status? Since to you marriage doesn't mean "I'll love you and only you till the end of my days", which is kind of the whole point of it, why do you need to go through the seremony? *hope this is the issue in this thread* I cheated my second boyfriend three times with my ----buddy and it wasn't pretty when he found out (I had to tell him because he didn't believe my lies).


Martin,
I've tried to stay out of this, but this is an excellent question.

I also resent your repeated, no longer humourous, comments about "closing of chastity belts." As Wendy noted, I'd say the same thing to a woman, though I also missed your intial post, I can guess what it was about.

Neither woman nor men are all evil. I have never found men to be "bad." Either I get along with someone I'm seeing or I don't. It's either going to work or it isn't. And it takes two to tango so to speak.

You don't seem to take ANY responsibility in a relationship.

Why not have this type of arrangement? And as I've said before, why marry? Some people aren't the marrying kind for MANY reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that.

NOT A FEMINIST BY A LONG SHOT HERE.

D


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

> Quote:
> I'll reply quickly - before we are deafened by thunderous metal clanging of a thousand feminist chastity belts crashing shut.
> 
> See, that's the kind of remark that pisses me off. I understand exactly where Wendy is coming from. I've written a couple of posts in reply to the dilemma #2 thread but end up deleting them because I feel like they get too mean or something.
> ...


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> enngirl5 said:
> 
> 
> > How about this then Emulated?
> ...


She looks like my English teacher whom i saw today... well the eyes and smile... any way... she hasn't got the puppies like this bless one has.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2007)

Enngirl, I wrote a reply yesterday to your quoted post here in the other thread, but it apparantly never posted and decided after that to leave it, because I didnt want to post more about it in EM's thread which has a different subject. But just want to say to you, I know what you mean and agree with what you've said in your post and understand your anger. 
Ive never been cheated on (as far as I know of course), but did get to meet some who did the push/pull and playing their own sick love games to fill their own illness and disturbances and with that use other people for their selfish pleasures. Makes me want to vomit. Still.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> You don't seem to take ANY responsibility in a relationship.


How can you possible know this? I write down, or rather admit, some generalisations about my psychological failings when it comes to keeping a relationship, and I am suddenly blasted by the usual female agenda regarding this. I'm staggered by your total collective arrogance, your sickening self-righteous rage. You don't know me. You only know my faults. Perish the thought that anyone else has them. Am I'm scolded for saying something like 'female chastity belts clanging shut', but it's fine to call me a sick, twisted, psychopathic mind bender. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME!

Makes you feel sick Wendy? I bet. Not as much as it does me, trust me.

Forget I even asked for 'advice'. Try a website like http://www.allmenarebastards.com, and vent your spleen there.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Epiphany (Apr 28, 2006)

At the risk of going against my own womankind here I am going to just side with you briefly here Martin...(oh god what am I saying?!).

I have to agree with you...you put your faults out there, are brutally honest about your shortcomings and admit you don't understand why you feel/act the way you do. For that I applaude you. It is rather brave/stupid (is there a word that covers both of these?) of you to expose yourself so totally to ridicule, and if it were someone else who had posted this it would perhaps not have been met with such a resounding chorus of disgust...but it is you - Martinelv - who posted this which of course was always going to stir up a hornets nest. You are right though...noone here truly knows you...none of us really knows each other at all...we only know as much as an individual allows us to see/read about themselves. Some put more out there than others and are a little more honest about their dishonesty than others would be comfortable to share. I'm sure most of us have done things in our lives we aren't proud of.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying at all that I condone or in any way agree it is fine to cheat on or treat your partner disrespectfully, but from what I have read from your posts Martin you aren't condoning it yourself or even making excuses for your behaviour. You do however, by your own admission, thrive on the dramatic and you are very good at provoking heated responses so really I guess you should be able to understand why you have been chastised so ferociously for it.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Martinelv said:


> > You don't seem to take ANY responsibility in a relationship.
> 
> 
> How can you possible know this? I write down, or rather admit, some generalisations about my psychological failings when it comes to keeping a relationship, and I am suddenly blasted by the usual female agenda regarding this. I'm staggered by your total collective arrogance, your sickening self-righteous rage. You don't know me. You only know my faults. Perish the thought that anyone else has them. Am I'm scolded for saying something like 'female chastity belts clanging shut', but it's fine to call me a sick, twisted, psychopathic mind bender. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME!
> ...


Martin,
Your signature:


> Marriage: The Latin word for having your wallet torn out through your genitals. - Robin Williams.


What is anyone supposed to take from that signature?

And you tell is to go to "all men are bastards.com"? You don't know ME, I'll say that. You simply repeat, imply, or state outright (in your signature) that women are somehow manipulative of you, that your first wife turned "psycho" after you married her, etc. I won't go into details.

You call women "feminazis" or something. Doesn't that indicate that you are making assumptionas about the women here? Oh, excuse me, you use the word womYn to mock feminism of course. I HATE THE FEMINIST MOVEMENT.

We are referring to one man here -- you. We are resopnding, or rather I am reponding to your complaining about not understanding about what women want and your almost retaliating against them with ... I don't know what you admit to be less than kind behavior.

People offer suggestions... the men as well. You admit to being unable to carry them out due to some "flaw in your nature."

Again, I FEEL, after all this time, you aren't asking for help. You are yes, venting, which we're all entitled to do. But your comments about women are frequently sarcastic. Again, "chastity belts", "womyn", "feminazis", suggesting that website about hating men.

Again, I, DREAMER, DO NOT HATE MEN. I just don't understand where you're coming from. And you never answer the question:

*Why do you want to get married? A simple question that we are all curious about.*

You have attacked the article I posted from the NYTimes saying (Americans of course) need to "learn" how to find a mate, get married, yet others here from other countries have noted that there needs to be some agreements made before a marriage. Marriage implies a number of things including fidelity, and usually indicates plans for a family. I never said that works, but it implies an ATTEMPT at that.

I also find that you are very fond of your mother. Where does she fit in in terms of you feelings about womYn? You seem to love her very much. Is she as evil and manipulative AS I SENSE YOU ARE SAYING.

It is how I INTERPRET what you're writing.

*And fair enough I don't know you, but you don't know me. But you seem to know enough about us to say we are man haters, all the women here, perhaps save Epiphany.*

The implication is all of the women here are vicous man haters. I speak for myself, I'm not.

I should never have gotten involved -- but it is tantalizing to figure this out. Martin there are so many things I like about you. You are bright and funny. But then you turn around, after being very charming, and carry on about what sounds to me like a great mistrust of ALL women.

God I hate that word womYn. I certainly have always disliked feminists. NEVER liked them. And that included my mother.

D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

And when I said you don't to take responsibility:

I refer specifically to your first marriage wherein EVERYTHING was her fault. SHE changed after the marriage. She became demanding, unfair, snippy, etc. Wanted to go back to school -- a surprise to you. Wanted a house, etc. You have made her out to be a greedy bitch.

YET THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL THAT MARRIAGE ISN'T A TWO WAY STREET.

I am amicably separated from my husband. We married for unconventional reasons. We both knew what we were getting into. We can't live together, yet we BOTH take responsibility for why the marriage doesn't work.

ONE person doesn't turn into a monster. The failure of a relationship doesn't rest SOLELY on one person, and this is what you imply. You do say that you have problems in relationships, you acknowledge this. But if you say that the women here hate men, well then it is not difficult to move one step further to believe you might feel that about all women.

That they are out to manpulate you somehow. And as someone once remarked here, perhaps you hurt THEM first so they can't hurt you.

I don't know. But I know with your marriage, UNLESS I MISSED A POST SOMEWHERE, APOLOGIES, you make it seem as if the woman became a shrew after you walked down the aisle, and you were the sorry victim of the whole thing.

And again, you refuse to answer only ONE direct question that could help with this mess.

*WHY DO YOU WANT TO GET MARRIED? ... especially if you are so confused about the matter?*

I may sound like a bitch, maybe I am, but don't consider myself to be one. I have a ton of issues that affect my relationships. But also, I admit this is a forum. We are "words on a screen." But you have posted so much, many of us who have "known" you a long time can form SOME sense of what you are like.

You've made assumptions about many of us.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

And for whatever it's worth. I haven't been reading or posting in the main forum. I saw the post JC made about feeling life has no meaning, and you Martin also chimed in.

I have had this feeling a long time. And as the years pass with little improvement, and if anything more anxiety, more depression, other limitations -- that I understand.

I understand it in spades. I know what it is to feel suicidal, and I also don't feel that now. But I feel my life is gone. I feel terrible loneliness. I have no interest in those things that interested me even last year.

I plug along with a few projects, read when I can, etc.

This I can understand as something affecting your relationsihps. I understand that again 500%. I am plain miserable. And I hate to say it, but I am.

But the questions noted above are sincere, and the comments I make are sincere.

It was like you said to me, "You don't like Michael Moore, Dreamer? I'm shocked." In other words a gross generalization about me from disliking one individual -- hence I'm a rabid "neo-con." And you know that isn't true.

I guess it's the generalization about women, or the women here. That a person can't be complex, not one dimensional, not two dimensional but having many dimensions.

I feel defensive (always have) about being misunderstood. I type too much, explain too much to somehow "prove" I'm not, "bad, or worthless" or whatever.

I don't know. I can likewise feel miserable, DP/DR, anxious, stomach a mess, isolated, depressed, and realize finding a man for me at this point is virtually impossible. I don't have the strength. But I don't blame it on men (NOT SAYING YOU BLAME THIS ON WOMEN), but I can understand a man's reaction towards me and I don't fault HIM, I simply understand WHY.

Ach, yakking on. I am so bored reworking my site I keep coming back here.

D


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

Well Dreamer, I read everything you just wrote and I just wanted to say I hear you and pretty much agree with you about everything. I know it can be frustrating as hell trying to prove yourself and where you stand, especially on a message board and especially to someone that's a bit stubborn sometimes.

We all know each other on this board pretty well. We say oh we only know each other online but we confess things on this board that we don't tell the closest people in our lives. So we definitely have insight into each other here. Many of the things you wrote you didn't even have to say, I knew you were that kind of person. For example,

"It was like you said to me, "You don't like Michael Moore, Dreamer? I'm shocked." In other words a gross generalization about me from disliking one individual -- hence I'm a rabid "neo-con." And you know that isn't true."

My point is, you don't have to prove yourself to most people on here. We know you're a good person, that you hate being misunderstood (lol), hate generiaizations (in all areas of life), etc. I even suspect Martin knows you pretty well too and will just sometimes push your buttons just like we all do on here sometimes to each other.

I too get pissed about the feminist remarks because I'm far from that also. I grew up around boys living in the country riding 4-wheelers, jet skis, etc. My brother is also probably my best friend and we talk about everything. We talk about how women suck sometimes but at the same time when I see a Maxxim in his house I tell him how much men are pigs. People are people. Men have their quirks and women have theirs. But deep down we're all the same and want the same things in life.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Thanks enngirl,
I didn't see this. Appreciated. God I get so carried away with things. I bore myself.
Again, appreciated.
D


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2007)

Martinelv said:


> your sickening self-righteous rage.


Martin, pot..kettle.. black



> Makes you feel sick Wendy? I bet. Not as much as it does me, trust me.


I was talking about the experiences in MY life I had with people playing games with my feelings and emotions. And it makes me feel sick. This is MY pain, not yours. Not more or less than yours, just MY pain.

*Epiphany wrote*


> but from what I have read from your posts Martin you aren't condoning it yourself or even making excuses for your behaviour.


In fact, Epiphany, I have been thinking about what you said here, and my conclusion is that he does do this (making excuses). He does it by saying he has character flaws which make him unable to change himself. He uses this as an excuse to continue doing what he is doing. And Martin, I base this on the fact you havent in any way shown in this thread or other threads about this subject, you are wanting to or working on making changes for yourself in this area.
Putting it down to a charachter flaw and saying 'that is that, cant help myself, this is the way I am' is not taking responsibility for your own actions. It is using it as an excuse to not change behaviors you know are not constructive.



> You do however, by your own admission, thrive on the dramatic and you are very good at provoking heated responses so really I guess you should be able to understand why you have been chastised so ferociously for it.


Spot on.

I can see this can be a very confronting thread for you. But I do hope, you get something out of it for yourself. You have gotten lots of honest, involved and direct responses from the posters in this thread. It would be a shame that would get lost, for you and (if I may speak for others) the posters here.

All the best.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Well, I apologise for shouting, I was having a bad day. But still, had a lovely weekend on the coast in Southwold (although it was -100,000,000 degrees), we stayed in a pretty little B&B, had long and bone-shatteringly cold walks along the beach and pier, and generally had lots of talks. I told her _exactly_ who I am, as far as I can possibly know (no lies - except my continuing reticence about my illness) and she just smiled and kissed me. We've put moving in together on hold and see what happens. I do love her. She is such a gentle creature, and when I'm in my right mind, I can't even bear the thought of cheating on her. But sometimes...sometimes the demon in my head pours such dreadful thoughts into my skull, I have thoughts of unspeakable emotional cruelty. It's pretty shocking.

Yes, I do thrive on emotional chaos...or rather, I enjoy the turmoil. But I nearly always regret it. More often than not, I am the one that comes out of it worse, whether you believe that or not. It is an aspect of my personality that puzzles me. I dunno though. I'm growing older, fatter and more tired of it. Perhaps I'll approach this fault in the same way as I did DR/DP. Just tell it to f-off, and behave like an adult.

You know, in a particually pathetic way, perhaps I am afraid of losing this 'apsect of personality' which I probably feel makes me different, unique. Beneath my bluff and attitude, I'm pretty bland, lost and empty. My rage, the chaos, the confrontation makes me feel alive.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Martin, 


> You know, in a particually pathetic way, perhaps I am afraid of losing this 'apsect of personality' which I probably feel makes me different, unique. Beneath my bluff and attitude, I'm pretty bland, lost and empty. My rage, the chaos, the confrontation makes me feel alive.


Thats the lie the demons (as even you put them, although probably metaphorically), the vices, tell you. _They're_ what makes you interesting, you cant live without _them_. Without them you are just bland and lost and confused. I am telling you right now that it is precisely _these_ that make you think you are bland, and lost, and confused. Underneath every vice, once it is told off, its hold relinquished, its lie vanquished, is a living, breathing, part of you that has been suffocating this entire time. This "virtue" is a thousand times more "you" and more invigorating and interesting than any mud that you can throw on top of it. Thats not what they, the demons, will tell you. But dont beleive them for a second. This is why everyone's deliverance is at hand - why everyone has hope. Everyone has light. Some people just have too much mud on top to see it shine. But its there, and its instantly uncoverable. Tell it - tell them all - to f--- off. If you want the help, you can can always ask God to castigate them , to tell them to "f--- off" (dont worry, He's heard that word before). He will, because he is more interested in your health, more hateful of the demons that torture you, and finds you far more interesting and vibrant and lively and talented than you do yourself. But not for long.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

Martin, I agree with everything Homeschooled just said. All your turmoil and chaos is not what makes you special. It's not what makes you unique. It's actually pretty common. What makes you unique in my opinion, and I only know you by your posts, I'm sure there's a whole lot more that you're girlfriend and family could say. It's your personality, your sense of humor, your intelligence, creativity, depth, etc, all rolled up into one single person. I think if you could let yourself let go of these vices (as homeschooled calls them), get off the rollercoaster so you don't have to waste anymore time feeling sh*tty for your actions, you would realize everything that you are. These qualities that "keep you alive and unique" so to say, I think are taking away from everything you could be. But that's my opinion. I have sh*tty qualities too that take away from me. Like my attempts to analyze emotions. Like I'm doing to you. But either way, I hope you get what I'm saying in all this. Appreciate your girlfriend for who she is and try to be happy.


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## Epiphany (Apr 28, 2006)

Yeah...what they said!!!



> But sometimes...sometimes the demon in my head pours such dreadful thoughts into my skull, I have thoughts of unspeakable emotional cruelty. It's pretty shocking.


So what??!!! Of course you do...having an overactive imagination and well-developed mental imagery comes with the territory for creative people...and you are more creative than the average bear. I would be shot on the spot if others could see some of the stuff that goes on in my head...the demons (plural) all dance themselves into a frenzy scattering evil thoughts around like fairy dust. 
Thoughts are only thoughts until they are validated. There is nothing wrong with the thoughts themselves, only with choosing to act them out. So don't. See?...easy!!! :wink:


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2007)

Martin, really very cool post you wrote and good to hear you shared with her. Not that it is any of my business what you do or not, but really good to see you talked to her, and your (again) honesty about yourself in your post. Just wanted to say: totally cool! 8) Take care.


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