# K'pin



## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

So I've found articles on klonopin and people here have said it helps. I have some. But the thing is, it's sedating, and I guess I've never stopped to try and see if it changes my dp or not. Usually when I take it it's after therapy and I've taken it because the emoions won't let up and I'm exhausted, and all I want to do is space out and distance the emotions, so the last thing I'm looking for is dp relief. But even if it helped, there's no way I could be that sedated on a regular basis.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Iif I let the sedation bottom out it wouldn't calm mw down when I needed if to

maybe I'll take one after my pre-op appointment and try to notice more if it helps the dp any. I'm going to need some extra help after that appoiment. But the surgery might give me a chance to try out the pain pill that may have pushed my dp away for a few days. Would be good info to have, if r was actually the pain med that did it and not rhe headache I was given the drug for . I've got to have some up sides to this surgery to stop me from freaking out


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## opie37060 (Jan 9, 2010)

The wierd thing with me is that I never once felt sedated on kolonopins. It just always made me feel less anxious. Kind of like xanax. I would take 4 of them a day and just feel normal.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Sometimes I'm sensitive to things, sometimes I get weird side effects, people are different


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2012)

Hey Kate, I've been on kpin for about 6 years, the sedating will go away after a while, how much are you taking?? I'm up to 5mg a day, and sometimes I dont even feel sedated, it's all about your body getting used to it. If your taking 1mg so to speak, I would try .5, see how that effects you, any questions let me know, this is one area I unfortunately have a lot of expertise in!


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

5 mg is a big dose

no I don't want to be on a benzo every day. I don't need dependence on top of all this crap. I went through withdrawl once, I don't need that again.


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## AndyD (Nov 24, 2011)

I would caution anyone thinking of using Klonopin. The benefits are not worth the risk. It has serious long term consequences and could cause irreversible changes to your nervous system, brain, etc. I speak from experience and also have seen it happen to many other people. The physiological changes that take place are very real and can put you at direct risk for developing other diseases. 
For example long term use can destroy the neuro mechanisms that balance Gaba/Glutamate. This can lead to excessive Glutamate or the inability to rid the CNS, spinal cord, and brain of glutamate (also known as excitotoxicity). This in turn leads to cell death and can trigger many neurodegenerative diseases like Lou Gerigs, Parkinsons, Huntingtons Disease etc. This will also cause mitochondrial issues as the cells become clogged with an influx of Ca2+ (calcium ions) into the cells. This leads to low levels of O2 in the cells and a reduction in ATP (process by which cells are energized). Once this happens your muscles start to breakdown and your CPK levels will elevate. Excessive gluatmate also causes over-activation of your NMDA receptors causing more DP and literally every psychiatric condition in the book. Autoimmune diseases are also fair game in this too, cause you immune system reacts to the imbalance as an illness, and therefore starts to emit high levels of inflammation that won't shut off.

I'm serious when I say that this cascade of events just outlined cam all start from using benzos like klonopin too long. Once you mess up the GABA/Glutatmate balance all this is fair game. It may not happen to everyone, but it will happen to some. I can't say for sure whether other drugs that influence Gaba/Glutamate can cause these changes. I understand many people here take medications or try meds like Lamictal that block Glutamate, etc. I'm not saying that every single med that works on GABA or Glutamte system is bad or can cause these changes to happen. What I'm saying is benzos are very different because they are truly physiologically addictive. It is this reason that the cascasde of events outlined above is a very real possibility with benzos. Anyway, my point is... I wouldn't take the chance with Benzos, especially klonopin.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

Eh, I only take it once *maybe* twice a week, sometimes less.


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

AndyD said:


> I would caution anyone thinking of using Klonopin. The benefits are not worth the risk. It has serious long term consequences and could cause irreversible changes to your nervous system, brain, etc. I speak from experience and also have seen it happen to many other people. The physiological changes that take place are very real and can put you at direct risk for developing other diseases.
> For example long term use can destroy the neuro mechanisms that balance Gaba/Glutamate. This can lead to excessive Glutamate or the inability to rid the CNS, spinal cord, and brain of glutamate (also known as excitotoxicity). This in turn leads to cell death and can trigger many neurodegenerative diseases like Lou Gerigs, Parkinsons, Huntingtons Disease etc. This will also cause mitochondrial issues as the cells become clogged with an influx of Ca2+ (calcium ions) into the cells. This leads to low levels of O2 in the cells and a reduction in ATP (process by which cells are energized). Once this happens your muscles start to breakdown and your CPK levels will elevate. Excessive gluatmate also causes over-activation of your NMDA receptors causing more DP and literally every psychiatric condition in the book. Autoimmune diseases are also fair game in this too, cause you immune system reacts to the imbalance as an illness, and therefore starts to emit high levels of inflammation that won't shut off.
> 
> I'm serious when I say that this cascade of events just outlined cam all start from using benzos like klonopin too long. Once you mess up the GABA/Glutatmate balance all this is fair game. It may not happen to everyone, but it will happen to some. I can't say for sure whether other drugs that influence Gaba/Glutamate can cause these changes. I understand many people here take medications or try meds like Lamictal that block Glutamate, etc. I'm not saying that every single med that works on GABA or Glutamte system is bad or can cause these changes to happen. What I'm saying is benzos are very different because they are truly physiologically addictive. It is this reason that the cascasde of events outlined above is a very real possibility with benzos. Anyway, my point is... I wouldn't take the chance with Benzos, especially klonopin.


How many times are you going to post this same crap. Are you a pharmacist? A Neurologist? A chemist? Or do you Google too much and project your own personal experience onto every other person/situation...ding ding. Everyone is different, for some people that suffer chronic and severe DPD, this med is the best thing and a life changer. Sorry it did not work for you. There are risks with many psychoactive meds, but benzos seem to get singled out for potential negative effects more than others. Each individual needs to weigh the risks versus rewards for them personally and make a responsible decision for themselves. Describe your own experience with the med and give advice based on that, but stop repeating the same negatively slanted, cherry picked bits and pieces of info you find on the internet. You can do a search on just about any drug or medical problem, do a little reading, and come away convinced you have irreparable damage, or are going to die.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

...benzos are singled out becuase they're very very addictive. Medicare won't even cover them if you hve a seizure disorder

but no, we don't need the same info/rants posted over and over....


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

kate_edwin said:


> ...benzos are singled out becuase they're very very addictive. Medicare won't even cover them if you hve a seizure disorder
> 
> but no, we don't need the same info/rants posted over and over....


Benzos are no more "addictive" than many other fast acting substances. You have to be careful with the use of that word. A person with an addiction will seek that source compulsively and to an extent that it interferes with work and relationships and they typically are out of control, and unaware of it. Yes Benzos do have abuse potential (so does alcohol, Ritalin, Adderall...etc). There are issues with tolerance and withdrawal. They do have a degree of lethality- they can be dangerous if stopped suddenly when taken for a long duration at a high enough dosage.(dont do that) Many people take them responsibly under a doctors supervision, and are not "addicted". And my insurance covers them, as do many. I think Medicare kinda sucks anyway.


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## AndyD (Nov 24, 2011)

My only intention is to inform people what the real risks of using long term are. Yes I have posted a couple times already on this forum about benzos, but when I see people come on here and say they are taking 5mg a day it disturbs the hell out of me. 
Most patients assume its safe if they are taking under their doctors supervision and its unfortunately not the case. The medical community has some catching up to do with Benzos, especially in the U.S. There is a reason why doctors don't prescribe it longer than 4 weeks in the UK. 
I've studied the subject intensely for years, have personal experience with it, and have worked with patients in withdrawal. I've seen just how many other medical conditions can develop from chronic use. If you don't like what I have to say Aloof, disagree, say whatever garbage you like. But again, there is no way I'm going to hold back my knowledge on the subject. Everyone deserves to hear the risks so they can make better decisions for themselves. The possible risks I am outlining are very real and each day science/medicine is becoming more aware of just how dangerous benzos really are. Its just taking a really long time and in the meantime people are getting seriously damaged.


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

AndyD said:


> My only intention is to inform people what the real risks of using long term are. Yes I have posted a couple times already on this forum about benzos, but when I see people come on here and say they are taking 5mg a day it disturbs the hell out of me.
> Most patients assume its safe if they are taking under their doctors supervision and its unfortunately not the case. The medical community has some catching up to do with Benzos, especially in the U.S. There is a reason why doctors don't prescribe it longer than 4 weeks in the UK.
> I've studied the subject intensely for years, have personal experience with it, and have worked with patients in withdrawal. I've seen just how many other medical conditions can develop from chronic use. If you don't like what I have to say Aloof, disagree, say whatever garbage you like. But again, there is no way I'm going to hold back my knowledge on the subject. Everyone deserves to hear the risks so they can make better decisions for themselves. The possible risks I am outlining are very real and each day science/medicine is becoming more aware of just how dangerous benzos really are. Its just taking a really long time and in the meantime people are getting seriously damaged.


Garbage....hmm. A good doctor will discuss risks of any med before writing a script for a patient. I know a few people on benzos long term, One, like me, has DPD. Another has severe social anxiety and panic attacks. All long term and chronic. Quality of life greatly improved on klonopin. Meanwhile I have seen alcohol abuse claim the life of a co worker who literally drank himself to death and destroyed his liver...and I have an uncle on the way there. Its a matter of perspective, and much is specific to the individual and their brain chemistry, life circumstances etc. You generalize too much. FFS there are people that have withdrawal from placebo. And you say each day science is becoming more aware of the dangers of benzos...really? If you have researched benzos as thoroughly as you say, you would know they are far from a new med and are very well understood, including the risks long term. There is absolutely nothing new there. Nothing. The docs that wont prescribe it long term are the ones that go by the book so to speak,(you find that in the UK in all cases btw not just with benzos) despite the fact that there are people who do well on them in low doses long term where all other meds have proven ineffective. Mostly its the younger, more progressive docs that are willing to prescribe them. As long as the patient is educated(not by you and your Google compilation of nonobjective tidbits sorry) and the expectations and risks presented, then its up to the patient to determine the best course for their situation.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

Andy, So what If I take 5mg a day? Yes it's a large dose, but after 6 years of use of a drug that brings me back to normal and allows me to function as a human being, its a small price to pay for the tolerance i've built. I dont see the need to go any higher considering i've been on this dose quite for some time. I realize you had a bad experience with it, and yes, i've read about others, however, i've also read about people that have been on the drug for 20+ years with no intentions of coming off saying it saved them. I would put myself in the latter group. I too would caution anyone before starting a benzo long term because there are some nasty side effects, such as the problem of it being safer to stay on rather than go off. So I do see where you're coming from, however no one experience can be the same for an entire population.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

kate_edwin said:


> ...benzos are singled out becuase they're very very addictive. Medicare won't even cover them if you hve a seizure disorder
> 
> but no, we don't need the same info/rants posted over and over....


I've taken The benzo Diazepam/Valium for 6 years so, obviously a long time. I used it if I had a panic attack, although a lot of the time I just faced the panic and didn't take one. Sometimes it took me 2 years to get through a 30 pill packet of 5mg. I still respond well to 2.5mg, the same dose I took at the start. Sometimes I forgot I had them and left them in a drawer somewhere and didn't use them.

I don't feel nor act addicted to them one bit. So, I am a long-term user. Is a part of my brain broken now because I have used them for 6 years? I would love to hear answers, because if something has gone weird up there, I see no signs yet.
Or, has the way I used them helped me _not_ become dependent? I feel like I have used them in the right way, even if it has been over a long period, but I can't be sure.


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## Guest (Oct 13, 2012)

Delicate you used them in a safe way, and if you dont feel there's anything wrong I really wouldn't worry about it, the human brain is capable of so much, I wouldn't worry about it.Especially since your use was so sporadic,


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

Problem I find with klonopin is that one of the main withdrawal symptoms is *depersonalization/derealization*. Logic would imply that it would therefore reduce these things if taken. I find it can to a degree. But then after awhile, you may think you still have DP/DR when it's just the tolerance withdrawals of the benzos....


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

gill said:


> Problem I find with klonopin is that one of the main withdrawal symptoms is *depersonalization/derealization*. Logic would imply that it would therefore reduce these things if taken. I find it can to a degree. But then after awhile, you may think you still have DP/DR when it's just the tolerance withdrawals of the benzos....


You might be over thinking a bit. Many who have DPD have it forever. Its isnt going to go away. The more you try to get back to that place you were, the more you exacerbate the symptoms. The answer is to adapt and accept the place you are in and live and move on. Klonopin doesn't cure DPD, it simply reduces the tendency to ruminate and obsess...allows it to be put in the background thus the more "normal" feeling most people have while taking it. If you taper off of it, the most likely outcome is that you will feel as you did before taking it.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2012)

Yea aloof hit the nail on the head, if i go a day with out the klonopin my dp/dr comes back full force. I'd rather stay on and not feel like crap forever


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

If ambien allows me to forget about stuff, and have more access to my mind, would k'pin possibly have the same affect?


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## Guest (Oct 16, 2012)

Klonopin and ambien are quite different drugs, ambiens makers got in trouble because of that amnesiac feeling your talking about, such as people sleepwalking and driving there cars, and not remembering about it. I can remember everything I do on the klonopin. It just relaxes me.


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

GhostsoftheGreat said:


> If ambien allows me to forget about stuff, and have more access to my mind, would k'pin possibly have the same affect?


Ambien is for sleep, period. That stuff is dangerous if you use it and try to stay awake. Try Klonopin.


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## kate_edwin (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't think 30 doses of vallium over a 2 year period would be considered "long term use" probably more like occasional use







even if that dosing was used over years and years


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## gaddis (Sep 18, 2005)

I had great results with antidepressants for over 20 years. Then, they stopped working, and I got anxiety symptoms i never had before. Klonopin was the only thing that helped with this.
The highest I went was 1mg for a month, but now I only take 0.5mgs every 2 to 4 days. Klonopin is the only benzo my doc will prescribe, because he says it's less addictive than the others.
He says that the best way to not get addicted to it is to not take it every day.
This week I only took 0.25 mgs., but today I had some bad DP and anxiety, so I'm going to take some tonight or tomorrow.
I have seven full bottles of Klonopin that I haven't touched yet!


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

aloof said:


> You might be over thinking a bit. Many who have DPD have it forever. Its isnt going to go away. The more you try to get back to that place you were, the more you exacerbate the symptoms. The answer is to adapt and accept the place you are in and live and move on. Klonopin doesn't cure DPD, it simply reduces the tendency to ruminate and obsess...allows it to be put in the background thus the more "normal" feeling most people have while taking it. If you taper off of it, the most likely outcome is that you will feel as you did before taking it.


Sorry but BULLSHIT. Not too many people have it forever. And actually nearly every single person experiences it at least for a few seconds in their lives. And it is mostly a symptom of major anxiety, obsession, depression. So if these 3 have a cure then of course dr/dp also does. Just don't be obsessed and overanalysed. Enjoy the life to the fullest. Stop with the stupid theories. It never helped anyone. I feel amazingly better maybe %90 cured. I just wonder if %100 cure is possible. And the thing I wonder more about is even if we are %100 cured can we realise it?


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

hennessy said:


> Sorry but BULLSHIT. Not too many people have it forever. And actually nearly every single person experiences it at least for a few seconds in their lives. And it is mostly a symptom of major anxiety, obsession, depression. So if these 3 have a cure then of course dr/dp also does. Just don't be obsessed and overanalysed. Enjoy the life to the fullest. Stop with the stupid theories. It never helped anyone. I feel amazingly better maybe %90 cured. I just wonder if %100 cure is possible. And the thing I wonder more about is even if we are %100 cured can we realise it?


You are an idiot. Bullshit? DPD is not the same as a brief or temporary episode of depersonalization. It is a disorder(thus the trailing D in the acronym) and it is chronic and not well understood. DPD is not a symptom of depression or anxiety. There is no known cure or even a medication that directly alleviates symptoms, as there are for depression and OCD. And do you have a reading comprehension problem??? Maybe read what i posted again, if you ever did in the first place.


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## fiberglasscottoncandy (Oct 29, 2012)

I feel like Klonopin made some aspects of my DP worse. Also, it's extremely addictive. I've been off of it for 3 months and I'm still feeling really anxious and terrible from the withdrawal. Ever since I've been off of it my DP has gotten worse than it ever was before I was on Klonopin. Be careful.


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

fiberglasscottoncandy said:


> I feel like Klonopin made some aspects of my DP worse. Also, it's extremely addictive. I've been off of it for 3 months and I'm still feeling really anxious and terrible from the withdrawal. Ever since I've been off of it my DP has gotten worse than it ever was before I was on Klonopin. Be careful.


How long were you taking it and what was your dose? I hope you tapered slowly, not a good idea to just stop taking it.


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## fiberglasscottoncandy (Oct 29, 2012)

aloof said:


> How long were you taking it and what was your dose? I hope you tapered slowly, not a good idea to just stop taking it.


I was taking it for about 4 or 5 years. I think when I first started taking it I was on half a mg, and then arond the time I stopped I had been taking like 2mg. I quit cold turkey. I couldn't stand dragging it out any longer. I remember my dp was getting worse from taking it, and I woke up feeling horrible every morning after taking it at night. I had already gone through withdrawal from Tramadol a little while back, so I didn't think anything would compare to how horrible that was. But the klonopin withdrawal has been pretty bad too.


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## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

fiberglasscottoncandy said:


> I was taking it for about 4 or 5 years. I think when I first started taking it I was on half a mg, and then arond the time I stopped I had been taking like 2mg. I quit cold turkey. I couldn't stand dragging it out any longer. I remember my dp was getting worse from taking it, and I woke up feeling horrible every morning after taking it at night. I had already gone through withdrawal from Tramadol a little while back, so I didn't think anything would compare to how horrible that was. But the klonopin withdrawal has been pretty bad too.


Wow cold turkey...well you have been off of it for 3 months and you didn't die lol, so thats something good. It certainly is a double edged sword- many of these drugs are. Tough choices. And DPD is like a moving target(for me at least) so having a bag of tricks is sort of the way to go. Not all meds either...diet, supplements, exercise and just keeping occupied and using positive thinking. Hang in there.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

aloof said:


> You are an idiot. Bullshit? DPD is not the same as a brief or temporary episode of depersonalization. It is a disorder(thus the trailing D in the acronym) and it is chronic and not well understood. DPD is not a symptom of depression or anxiety. There is no known cure or even a medication that directly alleviates symptoms, as there are for depression and OCD. And do you have a reading comprehension problem??? Maybe read what i posted again, if you ever did in the first place.


Sorry I thought you were talking about anxiety related dp/dr, not the disorder.


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