# Why do you guys single out DP



## Juan (Jul 5, 2012)

DP is only a symptom of anxiety- I feel as if this forum has made it a much more standalone condition. you shouldn't think you have symptoms of DP- you should think symptoms of anxiety. If you learn to control the way you mentally react to anxiety, you change the way you will feel as well ( in a good way of course ). I learned to change the way I handle the feeling of nervous and anxious feelings, and I was able to make my dp dissipate. I realize many of you have had it for a long time, but the way you 'accepted dp', you have accepted your way of thinking and feeling of DP. If you still have it, you fear it. Why do you fear it? You don't fully understand it, and why it persists. If we all knew where to go to handle our anxiety better, none of you would have to live with this feeling anymore.

*OK EDIT- I said only symptom of anxiety, but anxiety is the greatest factor for contributing dp. There have been people who have had onset of this feeling to block out pain from mournful memories, or trauma. I WOULD IGNORE THIS POST WHOLE POST BECAUSE it keeps going in circles with different people.*


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

Juan said:


> DP is only a symptom of anxiety- I feel as if this forum has made it a much more standalone condition. you shouldn't think you have symptoms of DP- you should think symptoms of anxiety. If you learn to control the way you mentally react to anxiety, you change the way you will feel as well ( in a good way of course ). I learned to change the way I handle the feeling of nervous and anxious feelings, and I was able to make my dp dissipate. I realize many of you have had it for a long time, but the way you 'accepted dp', you have accepted your way of thinking and feeling of DP. If you still have it, you fear it. Why do you fear it? You don't fully understand it, and why it persists. If we all knew where to go to handle our anxiety better, none of you would have to live with this feeling anymore.


If you have dp along with anxiety / panic attacks, then it makes perfect sense to treat the dp as a reaction to the stress and deal with the part of the problem which is more adressable (the stress); although i would also suggest at least considering that the stress may be a result of the dp. The thing is, for quite a few sufferers (myself included), the anxiety model of dp simply won't fit. This suggests that although dp *can* be triggered by stress, it is also a thing in its own right which can be independent of stress


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Juan said:


> DP is only a symptom of anxiety- I feel as if this forum has made it a much more standalone condition. you shouldn't think you have symptoms of DP- you should think symptoms of anxiety. If you learn to control the way you mentally react to anxiety, you change the way you will feel as well ( in a good way of course ). I learned to change the way I handle the feeling of nervous and anxious feelings, and I was able to make my dp dissipate. I realize many of you have had it for a long time, but the way you 'accepted dp', you have accepted your way of thinking and feeling of DP. If you still have it, you fear it. Why do you fear it? You don't fully understand it, and why it persists. If we all knew where to go to handle our anxiety better, none of you would have to live with this feeling anymore.


Last time I checked Depersonalization was a disorder, that might be why, I must admit my DP/DR were triggered by anxiety


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## Juan (Jul 5, 2012)

PositiveThinking! said:


> Last time I checked Depersonalization was a disorder, that might be why, I must admit my DP/DR were triggered by anxiety


If you truly accept it a disorder, it is only a mental block to keep you from feeling normal again. Drug induced or not, DP is the same- symptoms of chronic anxiety. Begin handling your anxiety better- dp fades within time. bam. problem solved. There is too much thought into this one symptom of anxiety. It really has been made into its own classification, when it only happens when anxiety is bad enough in your mind.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Juan said:


> If you truly accept it a disorder, it is only a mental block to keep you from feeling normal again. Drug induced or not, DP is the same- symptoms of chronic anxiety. Begin handling your anxiety better- dp fades within time. bam. problem solved. There is too much thought into this one symptom of anxiety. It really has been made into its own classification, when it only happens when anxiety is bad enough in your mind.


Well I wouldn't care if it was called Schizophrenia, Anxiety or Depersonalization, it's a bunch of symptoms I have that I must deal with, still if anyone ever saw you and you said that you had anxiety, with all those symptoms such as isolation, suicide, existence, seeing things, hearing things it wouldn't make sense to be anxiety, people often think of anxiety as something small


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

Juan said:


> If you truly accept it a disorder, it is only a mental block to keep you from feeling normal again. Drug induced or not, DP is the same- symptoms of chronic anxiety. Begin handling your anxiety better- dp fades within time. bam. problem solved. There is too much thought into this one symptom of anxiety. It really has been made into its own classification, when it only happens when anxiety is bad enough in your mind.


I don't think you are picking up on my meaning, so let me more direct

This -

"Drug induced or not, DP is the same- symptoms of chronic anxiety"

is a *hypothesis* (read as 'informed guess') that doesn't comfortably fit all the facts


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

If DP were a symptom of anxiety, then it would come and go based on my moods. Anxious, DP. Calm, no Dp. Doesn't work that way though. It's continuous. When it's continuous; that means it's a long-term after-effect of stress. Obviously, if people reduce their stress, the DP should fade with time. But it's not going to instantly disappear the moment a person feels relaxed again.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

gill said:


> If DP were a symptom of anxiety, then it would come and go based on my moods. Anxious, DP. Calm, no Dp. Doesn't work that way though. It's continuous. When it's continuous; that means it's a long-term after-effect of stress. Obviously, if people reduce their stress, the DP should fade with time. But it's not going to instantly disappear the moment a person feels relaxed again.


Yep that's what people do wrong, they think that if they spend a few days without any anxiety the DP/DR should go away for good, you can't expect it to go away that easily, you have to work for it and live a peaceful life, not just a few days


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## Quarter Pounder (Jun 17, 2011)

For the 99999th time, no. Depersonalization disorder has nothing to do with anxiety. It might _generate_ anxiety at first because you don't know what the fuck is going on, if you are going crazy or whatever. I have had dpd for 3 years now and I have no anxiety whatsoever, I don't even get anxious over things that before having this I would have (college exams, etc.), mostly because I don't see the point in life anymore..

tl;dr: OP your hypothesis is false.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Quarter Pounder said:


> For the 99999th time, no. Depersonalization disorder has nothing to do with anxiety. It might _generate_ anxiety at first because you don't know what the fuck is going on, if you are going crazy or whatever. I have had dpd for 3 years now and I have no anxiety whatsoever, I don't even get anxious over things that before having this I would have (college exams, etc.), mostly because I don't see the point in life anymore..
> 
> tl;dr: OP your hypothesis is false.


It kinda has everything to do with anxiety, since anxiety itself can trigger DP/DR and DP/DR can lead to anxiety


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## mimomo (Apr 19, 2012)

Quarter Pounder said:


> For the 99999th time, no. Depersonalization disorder has nothing to do with anxiety. It might _generate_ anxiety at first because you don't know what the fuck is going on, if you are going crazy or whatever. I have had dpd for 3 years now and I have no anxiety whatsoever, I don't even get anxious over things that before having this I would have (college exams, etc.), mostly because I don't see the point in life anymore..
> 
> tl;dr: OP your hypothesis is false.


Depersonalization has _everything_ to do with anxiety. The reason why you no longer feel the anxiety is because you've become numbed to it, as the brain wants you to feel. Having DP for 3 years is absolutely ridiculous, and to be honest, if you've had it for that long then you're doing something wrong. If you truly want to get better, you must change your entire 3 year thinking pattern.


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

PositiveThinking! said:


> It kinda has everything to do with anxiety, since anxiety itself can trigger DP/DR and DP/DR can lead to anxiety


That doesn't mean it has everything to do with it

However, people appear to not have anxiety problems but still have dp. That fact suggests that using the word 'everything' above, is kinda misleading


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

mimomo said:


> as the brain wants you to feel. Having DP for 3 years is absolutely ridiculous, and to be honest, if you've had it for that long then you're doing something wrong. If you truly want to get better, you must change your entire 3 year thinking pattern.


Ahh i see. The whole point of the anxiety hypothesis is to make the condition the sufferer's fault. The sufferer has no way of arguing with you because they can't prove they aren't suffering from anxiety they cannot feel. That's pretty clever


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## mimomo (Apr 19, 2012)

Magrathea said:


> That's not falsifiable - in other words, it wouldn't matter what the sufferer reported, your theory could still hold because you have a way of discounting information from the sufferer if it doesn't agree with your theory. As the only source of information is the sufferer, there is no possible means of showing your theory to be false, even if it is
> 
> Ahh i see. The whole point of the anxiety hypothesis is to make the condition the sufferer's fault. The sufferer has no way of arguing with you because they can't prove they aren't suffering from anxiety they cannot feel. That's pretty clever


It's not a theory - it's the truth. DP is only the result of a long period of anxiety and stress; there is no other way of obtaining this. When you're constantly obsessed with it as well, the brain perceives this as important information and therefore hangs onto it. 
As far as it being the sufferer's fault...on one hand, it is, because it's the thoughts that must be changed. On the other hand, it isn't, because they most likely haven't been given the tools needed to overcome this.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Magrathea said:


> That doesn't mean it has everything to do with it
> 
> However, people appear to not have anxiety problems but still have dp. That fact suggests that using the word 'everything' above, is kinda misleading


Alright it doesn't have "everything" to do with anxiety, but saying it has nothing to do with it is ridiculous at best... Extreme anxiety has a high chance of triggering DP/DR, and DP/DR can create / most like will create anxiety even if you're not an anxious person. I do know some people have said they feel DP without any anxiety, but just because like 1% of the community has, it doesn't mean it's got nothing to do with anxiety.


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

PositiveThinking! said:


> Extreme anxiety has a high chance of triggering DP/DR, and DP/DR can create / most like will create anxiety even if you're not an anxious person. I do know some people have said they feel DP without any anxiety, but just because like 1% of the community has, it doesn't mean it's got nothing to do with anxiety.


It's not 1% of the community, my guess of 20% has as much credibility

two points

1) the 'dp community' has a lot of people with a cluster of issues - in other words, a lot of people with dp and other things. Perhaps that 20% are the 20% who only have dp, perhaps not

2) I can see from the board that when people attempt to say they don't suffer particularily from anxiety and don't think anxiety caused their dp, they are told they must be imagining things or that they must be experiencing high levels of anxiety without feeling anything - this is a way to discount / minimalise their data. People are saying they don't feel anxiety, but are being discounted


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Magrathea said:


> It's not 1% of the community, my guess of 20% has as much credibility
> 
> 1) the 'dp community' has a lot of people with a cluster of issues - in other words, a lot of people with dp and other things. Perhaps that 20% are the 20% who only have dp, perhaps not


So only 20% actually have DP? The other's are just people filled with other mental issues and should not say that they have DP?

I've been anxious all my life, it did affect me a lot, nothing compared to DP/DR though. Constant exposure to extreme anxiety led to this, now I have to deal with this problem as well, I would never dare to say that only 20% of the people here actually suffer from DP, after what some people have been through, after having all the symptoms related to DP it's just not fair to say it like that, I think DP/DR is getting to you and messing with your thoughts. As I've said before, people with DP often try to understand how it all began, how it all works, and eventually become obsessed with the thoughts, try and recover instead


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

People conflate DP with DPD. Transient DP can be a symptom of transient anxiety. But a person doesn't have to be in a continuous state of anxiety to have DPD. It is an after-effect of the stress. It can take awhile to heal even after the stress is gone. That's why it's difficult to be patient with this....


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

PositiveThinking! said:


> So only 20% actually have DP? The other's are just people filled with other mental issues and should not say that they have DP?


Crossed wires here. My words were ambiguous

When i said, 'Perhaps that 20% are the 20% who only have dp, perhaps not'

I meant, perhaps they are the 20% who have DP and only dp, while others have DP + other issues

Of course, we simply don't know


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

gill said:


> People conflate DP with DPD. Transient DP can be a symptom of transient anxiety. But a person doesn't have to be in a continuous state of anxiety to have DPD. It is an after-effect of the stress. It can take awhile to heal even after the stress is gone. That's why it's difficult to be patient with this....


"*Depersonalization disorder* (DPD) is a dissociative disorder (ICD-10 classifies the disorder as an anxiety disorder) in which the sufferer is affected by persistent or recurrent feelings of depersonalization and/or derealization."


I've had it for 3 years and it was always this easy, Depersonalization is a symptom of anxiety that most people have already experienced while under big amount of stress. Depersonalization Disorder is when someone gets "stuck" with these feelings, and there are tons of causes.


Anyways I'm not really interested anymore in the cause or how it works, I got rid of the negativity, the need to know it all and I'm focusing on my recovery


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

gill said:


> People conflate DP with DPD. Transient DP can be a symptom of transient anxiety. But a person doesn't have to be in a continuous state of anxiety to have DPD. It is an after-effect of the stress. It can take awhile to heal even after the stress is gone. That's why it's difficult to be patient with this....


But even this theory has probelms imo

An after effect lasting far longer than say a decade? that's stretching cause and effect a bit - a few months, fine - 18 months, perhaps..but decades? with interveening periods of anxiety from life events making no odds to the severity of the dp at all?

It's far simpler to say that the continued state of dp just isn't much related to anxiety


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

Magrathea said:


> But even this theory has probelms imo
> 
> An after effect lasting far longer than say a decade? that's stretching cause and effect a bit - a few months, fine - 18 months, perhaps..but decades? with interveening periods of anxiety from life events making no odds to the severity of the dp at all?
> 
> It's far simpler to say that the continued state of dp just isn't much related to anxiety


I don't see a problem with it lasting a decade. Because, I agree with my doctor; that on a biological level, dpd is an actual physical disconnect between the autonomic limbic areas and the pre-frontal cortex due to over stimulation of the limbic. If there is not a sufficient enough stress-free interval; then these connections won't heal. And even if they do, they'll never be exactly the same; so then we will always be more vulnerable to going back into a DP state.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

By the way I recommend you people that keep on creating ideas on why DP/DR exists and if we have DP Disorder or whatever to read "Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder" , you probably won't like it because it doesn't say what you want to hear, but it was definitely something I needed to read to be able to move on.

Also, @Magrathea , I've read in another thread, a post of yours where you said you didn't experience existential angst, that is a very common symptom of DP Disorder according to every website / book, when you guys started talking about DP not being related to anxiety and when I read that other post of yours, I decided to grab the book and see with my own eyes what I had seen years ago


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

PositiveThinking! said:


> Also, @Magrathea , I've read in another thread, a post of yours where you said you didn't experience existential angst, that is a very common symptom of DP Disorder according to every website / book, when you guys started talking about DP not being related to anxiety and when I read that other post of yours, I decided to grab the book and see with my own eyes what I had seen years ago


I had the sense of being cut off from reality, but I didn't do much rumination about existence. Some dped people experience obsessive, intrusive thoughts about the ultimate nature of reality - i didn't much (no more than the interest in issues of philosophy and science i held before i had dp).


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

gill said:


> I don't see a problem with it lasting a decade. Because, I agree with my doctor; that on a biological level, dpd is an actual physical disconnect between the autonomic limbic areas and the pre-frontal cortex due to over stimulation of the limbic. If there is not a sufficient enough stress-free interval; then these connections won't heal. And even if they do, they'll never be exactly the same; so then we will always be more vulnerable to going back into a DP state.


That makes sense. Thanks


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Also thought I'd share this, as I find it somewhat important, this was taken from the book "Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder"

"Many people with DPD describe themselves as 'numb' , but this isn't exactly the case, or at least it's not the whole picture. Emotional numbness or a completely flat disposition may be better diagnosed as a thought disorder or another condition where acknowledgment of reality is impaired, rather than depersonalization"

As I've said, I think it really is important for some people in the forum to acquire this book.

Edit: Sorry, meant to post this in another thread


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

Juan said:


> DP is only a symptom of anxiety- I feel as if this forum has made it a much more standalone condition. you shouldn't think you have symptoms of DP- you should think symptoms of anxiety. If you learn to control the way you mentally react to anxiety, you change the way you will feel as well ( in a good way of course ). I learned to change the way I handle the feeling of nervous and anxious feelings, and I was able to make my dp dissipate. I realize many of you have had it for a long time, but the way you 'accepted dp', you have accepted your way of thinking and feeling of DP. If you still have it, you fear it. Why do you fear it? You don't fully understand it, and why it persists. If we all knew where to go to handle our anxiety better, none of you would have to live with this feeling anymore.


I haven't read the entire thread here, but I imagine there are those who disagree.

First of all DPD is indeed recognized as a SYNDROME IN ITS OWN RIGHT. In the DSM-5 it will be very clearly noted as:
1. A secondary symptom BUT ALSO
2. A primary DISORDER -- *see Dr. Mauricio Sierra's Medical Textbook Depersonalization: A New Look At A Neglected Syndrome*

DP/DR can come with most if not all mental illnesses. The DP/DR can be associated with anxiety or not. It also may be removed from the category of dissociative disorders as there is no loss of memory in the experience of DP/DR. It is a perceptual distortion which has yet to be fully understood.

DP/DR also come with epilepsy, migraine, stroke, head trauma, brain tumors, etc.

For those of us here, whatever brought on the FEELINGS of DP/DR -- specifically DP -- not feeling your body is real, DR -- seeing the world as fake/2D/flat -- DEPERSONALIZATION is the most disabling symptom for us. A good number of individuals do not have anxiety and have DP/DR.

DP/DR have been associated with deja vu, jamaias vu, Alice in Wonderland Syndrome, Cotard's syndrome, etc.

There are individuals on this board say with bipolar who developed DP/DR. They were treated for the DP/DR and it went away, even if the bipolar didn't.

*It's obvious that DP is of tremendous concern to everyone here or there would not be a DP board! Many who seek help on anxiety boards and HPPD boards do not connect in the same way as they do here. Also, individuals have sought answers on TLE and other seizure boards and end up getting directed to this DP board or others that are in other languages.*


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2012)

gill said:


> I don't see a problem with it lasting a decade. Because, I agree with my doctor; that on a biological level, dpd is an actual physical disconnect between the autonomic limbic areas and the pre-frontal cortex due to over stimulation of the limbic. If there is not a sufficient enough stress-free interval; then these connections won't heal. And even if they do, they'll never be exactly the same; so then we will always be more vulnerable to going back into a DP state.


I'd say this is pretty spot on. And I have had DP/DR for most of my life and I am 53.

Recently I have been through a major move, and in 2010 had a bilateral mastectomy for cancer. Interesting in these later years of my life, my anxiety re: these two events has been throught the roof, but the DP/DR are just at their "normal" 24/7, 365, even in my dreams, level.

Tiresome to say the least.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2012)

It seems nobody can prove it still, but I think we can have DP without anxiety. When I got DP I did´nt have anxiety. OK I was nervous but it wasn´t full anxiety like I have read about it. Maybe DP disconnects you so much that you don´t recognise anxiety and anxiety can in return induce DP. They seem to hang together so if the ICD-10 says it´s an anxiety disorder it´s OK, but they can´t really prove that - it´s just a stand. DP can be a secondary symptom to anxiety so that´s correct too. All I´m saying is that it can very well be a stand alone disturbance with no comorbid quality.

That physical explanation Gill got from his doctor seems plausible. I have no technical expertise in medicine but my sense tells me it´s more than physical. Something that is caused by mental conditions interacting with that physical problem. That´s why it´s difficult to treat DP with medications. You need to resolve something more than a physical disconnect. As someone else said, reality is trying to tell you something...


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2012)

The thing is, as with deja vu, we know that many people experience episodes of depersonalization/derealization particularly when they are exhausted -- my psychiatrist knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about. He says he "can't imagine it being permanent, that must be awful." He has felt it when required to work 72 hour shifts in the ER, etc. He doesn't feel anxious about it, but he says sometimes stress of decision making under pressure in an emergency used to bring it on, especially when he had been working long hours. It doesn't scare him or make him anxious and he is not an anxious person. He is Chief of Staff of the Residents this year and is going into research. One of the best psychiatrists I've ever had.

Why deja vu? It serves no purpose and is a similar perceptual distortion. There are rare cases of deja vu lasting for extended periods of time and where the individual wishes to commit suicide as it is so unbearable.

Also, I first felt this at age 4 or 5, and have heard other young kids can feel it ... those who are more prone to introspection. When I first felt this as a child it was "a game" ... I had control over it. I could make it come and go. Later it "took over."

And of course any brain dysfunction links MIND/BRAIN. But having chronic DP/DR that is disabling is NOT NORMAL, it is not healthy.

What astounds me is with this young man, Holmes, who killed and wounded so many in a Colorado theatre (Batman film). It's pretty obvious to me that he is schizophrenic or severely bipolar. And nobody in the media "gets it." I'm not saying he shouldn't go to prison for life, or even that he doesn't know right from wrong, but this guys brain has a MEDICAL ILLNESS. If this guy isn't severely mentally ill I'll eat my computer.

*The brain can get sick, like any organ in the body, and this can be on a spectrum of severity from mild to incapacitating. And each case is unique.*

I will never understand why in 2012, with all the research out there, so many are ignorant about the brain.

Ah, and finally, I have never had a rec drug save alcohol. There are many people on this board, and others I know in person who have gotten DP/DR on rec drugs, or even Rx drugs. Some enjoy the feeling. Others find it horrifying. Some seek a dissociative experience like this on Ketamine ... they seek a "religious" feeling. If individuals SEEK the feeling, and don't feel anxiety at those times then the theory doesn't hold. You hear so many pot stories here where someone smoked pot many times, then one time had an awful reaction. DP/DR is most clearly associated with panic, but it is also easily induced with dissociative drugs. God I hate that stuff.

*DP/DR occur in so many different situations and for so many different reasons. And we STILL don't know enough about any brain disorder. We can't make generalizations.*


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## Juan (Jul 5, 2012)

People that think they have dp but do not have anxiety are not properly educated. I base my claims on people that have gone through the experience of depersonalization, including myself, and do not have ANY kind of strange symptoms that lurk. There are many people that have accepted depersonalization as a death sentence, and have accepted their way of thinking along with it. Obviously, someone who is more stubborn, and refuses to change the way they think about anything, WILL have a harder and longer time getting to be the way they once were


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

90 percent of people with depersonalization disorder have anxiety u can't deny that it is very closely related. as with the other 10 percent i don't know but even if they don't have anxiety their mind is probly not at ease. also it could be that their brain is simply unable to heal and therefor dp exists on its own. i mean wat says the brain can always heal-nothing. if it exists for a decade i mean comon its more likely that their brain has simply made the decision to stay dp'd for good. dp doesn't have to be rational its just the way it is the human body has mistakes.


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

Dreamer* said:


> The thing is, as with deja vu, we know that many people experience episodes of depersonalization/derealization particularly when they are exhausted -- my psychiatrist knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about. He says he "can't imagine it being permanent, that must be awful." He has felt it when required to work 72 hour shifts in the ER, etc. He doesn't feel anxious about it, but he says sometimes stress of decision making under pressure in an emergency used to bring it on, especially when he had been working long hours. It doesn't scare him or make him anxious and he is not an anxious person. He is Chief of Staff of the Residents this year and is going into research. One of the best psychiatrists I've ever had.
> 
> Why deja vu? It serves no purpose and is a similar perceptual distortion. There are rare cases of deja vu lasting for extended periods of time and where the individual wishes to commit suicide as it is so unbearable.
> 
> ...


yes like u said the brain is just like any other organ it can have problems. but i think having a problem in the brain is much better then having problems with most other organs. for example if ur heart isn't working right ur pretty much fucked unless u get a heart transplant i guess. but with brain problems there are many ways to fix them. parts of the brain can actually regenerate cells like the liver(atleast the hypocampus maybe more). also the brain can rewire itself and have some parts take over other functions. and u can help the brain change by simply changing ur mindset. like some people with aspergers are able to fix there problem cause they are so smart that they can actually teach themselves to communicate with people better like that one math savant. anyways u probly no most of wat I'm telling u already i just wanted to state my opinion


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## Quarter Pounder (Jun 17, 2011)

mimomo said:


> Depersonalization has _everything_ to do with anxiety. The reason why you no longer feel the anxiety is because you've become numbed to it, as the brain wants you to feel. Having DP for 3 years is absolutely ridiculous, and to be honest, if you've had it for that long then you're doing something wrong. If you truly want to get better, you must change your entire 3 year thinking pattern.


This is why I find this forum so pointless, it's full of obnoxious retards who have been through dp for 2 days and think they have it sorted.
Are you actually trying to explain to me how my depersonalization works? I have tried everything to get rid of it _starting_ by changing my thinking pattern. It's not a thinking pattern either, it's more of a feeling pattern or perceiving pattern, something I still don't know how to modify.

No, I don't have any "numbed" anxiety, that's bullshit. I'm not saying that it isn't possible for some people to have this because of anxiety, but it's certainly not the only possible explanation. Why not anger or frustration or something other thing instead? Why not a physical problem?

And why do you think there are people that have got dp for over 15 years? It's because you can handle your mental issues so well? No, it's because they do have a problem and you don't.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

Quarter Pounder said:


> This is why I find this forum so pointless, it's full of obnoxious retards who have been through dp for 2 days and think they have it sorted.
> Are you actually trying to explain to me how my depersonalization works? I have tried everything to get rid of it _starting_ by changing my thinking pattern. It's not a thinking pattern either, it's more of a feeling pattern or perceiving pattern, something I still don't know how to modify.
> 
> No, I don't have any "numbed" anxiety, that's bullshit. I'm not saying that it isn't possible for some people to have this because of anxiety, but it's certainly not the only possible explanation. Why not anger or frustration or something other thing instead? Why not a physical problem?
> ...


I agree with you at some point, but there's no need for insults, whenever I see someone with a bunch of theories that don't make sense I also tend to respond, and if they try to convince me that they are right while I know they are not, I get kinda mad but I rather not say anything after that.

Anyways, after 3 years with DPD my ideas are pretty much confused, after realizing that I wanted to clear the confusion, so I grabbed my old book "Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder" , it is related to anxiety most of the times, still it is possible to have it without any anxiety, and even get DPD with no apparent reason


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

mmarcus said:


> also it could be that their brain is simply unable to heal and therefor dp exists on its own. i mean wat says the brain can always heal-nothing. if it exists for a decade i mean comon its more likely that their brain has simply made the decision to stay dp'd for good. dp doesn't have to be rational its just the way it is the human body has mistakes.


Or it might not be a decision and dp might just be that kind of thing


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

I don't see this having much to do with 'thinking patterns'. People can change their attitudes, so their thoughts in that sense; but the DP itself is mostly a problem in the subconscious areas. If it weren't, we would have all just willfully shut it off in the beginning. There's just certain parts of the brain we can't directly talk to; like telling our heart to stop by thinking it. However, I could make my heart stop if I stab it with a knife; or OD on potassium chloride. So then, behavior and what we ingest are really the main things that affect these areas, not so much direct thoughts.


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## Quarter Pounder (Jun 17, 2011)

PositiveThinking! said:


> I agree with you at some point, but there's no need for insults, whenever I see someone with a bunch of theories that don't make sense I also tend to respond, and if they try to convince me that they are right while I know they are not, I get kinda mad but I rather not say anything after that.
> 
> Anyways, after 3 years with DPD my ideas are pretty much confused, after realizing that I wanted to clear the confusion, so I grabbed my old book "Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder" , it is related to anxiety most of the times, still it is possible to have it without any anxiety, and even get DPD with no apparent reason


Yeah, I usually try not to be aggressive, but sometimes I just get very pissed off. It's true, in _most _cases depersonalization and derealization is linked to anxiety, but that doesn't mean that the other cases have to be dismissed. In fact, the main distinction between dp as a symptom and dp as a disorder is that while the first one can be pinned down to something like a period of anxiety, the death of a loved one, etc., while the latter has no apparent source.


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## Juan (Jul 5, 2012)

the more classifications you make this feeling into, the more difficult it becomes to help. Where do you think the subconscious mind gains its knowledge and power from? Your conscious mind's thoughts. The subconscious mind has the power to heal any kind of sickness, including cancer. For the skeptics in here, look it up. With this information you could be leading yourself to a better life right now. You have looked up every link in google about depersonalization, so why not give this a shot?


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

Magrathea said:


> 90 percent of people with any form of mental issue have some anxiety - hell 90% percent of people - full stop - have some anxiety.
> 
> The vagueness of the woird 'anxiety' makes the ninety percent figure meaningless - from what i can see, ninety percent of people with dp do not have continuous severe anxiety (panic attacks); the kind of anxiety that would explain a large, continuous perceptual shift
> 
> ...


From what you can see??ur not a DP specialist doing a study...u have no evidence. i read the 90% stat that was found from a legit study by proffesionals.

and did u even read wat i said or r u too dumb and lazy??? i agreed with u!!! i said the brain may just stays dp'd for good thats just the way it is. next time u make a an argument maybe u should understand wat im sayin first...just a thought


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

also the uk dp unit who studies hundreds of patients wants to classify it as an anxiety disorder...but no u must be smarter then all of them right? plzz u have no room to talk


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

mmarcus said:


> and did u even read wat i said or r u too dumb and lazy??? i agreed with u!!! i said the brain may just stays dp'd for good thats just the way it is. next time u make a an argument maybe u should understand wat im sayin first...just a thought


 I thought you said the brain made a decision not to heal. I appologise if i got the wrong end of the stick


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

Juan said:


> the more classifications you make this feeling into, the more difficult it becomes to help.


Ok. For the sake of simplicity and ease of classification, lets call it a broken bone and treat sufferers as if the problem is a broken bone


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2012)

mmarcus said:


> *also the uk dp unit who studies hundreds of patients wants to classify it as an anxiety disorder*...but no u must be smarter then all of them right? plzz u have no room to talk


Since when? Have you read Mauricio Sierra's textbook?

And again, for example, Monocycline sp? (an anti-acne treatment) can induce DP/DR in healthy individuals without pre-existing anxiety or any other mental health problem. Going on the med causes DP, coming off of it makes the DP go away. Antibiotics of various kinds have that strange quality.

DP/DR are of course ASSOCIATED with anxiety, but not every person with anxiety gets DP/DR. The clearest connection is with panic attacks.

Have you read V.S. Ramachandran's book, A Brief Tour of Human Consciousness? Have you been following the DSM-5 revision wherein they may put DPD in its own category? But again, as I've said, individuals with STROKE, MIGRAINE, BRAIN TUMORS, etc. can have symptoms of DP/DR without anxiety. It is as uncomfortable for them.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2012)

Magrathea said:


> Ok. For the sake of simplicity and ease of classification, lets call it a broken bone and treat sufferers as if the problem is a broken bone


LOL @ Margathea.

I have a feeling the OP is a troll. And Quarter Pounder this is the sort of thread that can get me boiling mad.

DP/DR symptoms fall on a spectrum. If secondary to something they may be more easily treated if the MAIN illness is treated. MY MOST DISABLING symptom is DP/DR. I have clinical depression and anxiety (but both of those things tend to come together.) I was diagnosed with Depersonalization Disorder in 1975. That diagnosis has stayed with me over the years. Changed on and off, but again is recognized as my primary disabling symptom. Neurologists are very familiar with it ... for the billionth time someone can have a STROKE, a MIGRAINE attack, a SEIZURE, a serious HEAD TRAUMA and not be an anxious person and begin to experience chronic DP/DR.

Also, re: the brain. I have had many physical illnesses over my life including cancer. The worst possible illness is one of the brain as your brain is what helps you function in all areas of life -- social and occupational. I would rather have my legs removed. And to be honest, cancer was a breeze compared to DP/DR -- I had my breasts removed -- and NO you do not get a "free boob job" -- there isn't much to work with afterwards if your skinny.

*And two more questions to the OP:
1. Why are you on a DP Board if you don't believe in DP.
2. Why do MANY DP Boards and research units exist for DP SPECIFICALLY.
*

I agree that this is a useless discussion with an ignorant individual. Also, there are too many unknowns about the brain. No it is NOT easy to repair, you can't go in and poke around. Something wrong with the brain is generally the most disabling of all diseases. That doesn't mean other illnesses are not horrible, but no, you can't cure cancer with your mind either. Grow up. When you're my age and see friends die of many illnesses -- way too young -- it isn't as if they aren't trying to get better.

Try a little chemotherapy for a while. Chemotherapy and radiation can kill you in and of themselves. They cause horrible side effects. If you don't use them ... you die.

I am so sick of ignorance. So sick of it.
Don't come on this board if it bothers you so much.









AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

I didn't really want to post anything else in here as I don't find this thread useful to be completely honest, this should be a support forum and people still manage to insult / get mad at each other, I'm not saying it is for no reason, since each one has his own opinion, yet threads like this look really useless.

Just be at peace and be supportive towards the ones who need


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## Thidwick (May 30, 2012)

One of the things that really annoys me about this board is how so many people want to deny that their situation is similar to everyone else's, as though their DP is "special" and can't be treated normally. It's this kind of special thinking that contributes to the problem. Anxiety is inherently related to dissociative disorders, and just because you aren't actively having a panic attack and aren't experiencing physical symptoms such as elevated heartbeat doesn't mean that you aren't anxious.

These people are obviously anxious about something, because they obsess about their symptoms and spend so much time on this message board in search of a cure.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

It is an oversimplification to reduce everything down to anxiety. People end up here from a lot of unique paths. I took a lot of mescaline before I experienced DP; also see a bunch of other weird distortions... Not trying to be special; but I'd say there's def a neurological aspect; least in my case. Doesn't seem unreasonable that this is the case for others then also.


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

Dreamer* said:


> Since when? Have you read Mauricio Sierra's textbook?
> 
> And again, for example, Monocycline sp? (an anti-acne treatment) can induce DP/DR in healthy individuals without pre-existing anxiety or any other mental health problem. Going on the med causes DP, coming off of it makes the DP go away. Antibiotics of various kinds have that strange quality.
> 
> ...


"Researchers at the Institute of Psychiatry in London, England suggest depersonalization disorder be placed with anxiety and mood disorders, as in the ICD-10, instead of with dissociative disorders as in the DSM-IV-TR.[8]" there happy? and btw I've noticed that a lot of your posts have to do with your story. all u talk about is wat problems uve had and your past. my psychiatrist made a good point in saying that we get so obsessed with our story. maybe u should try living in the present and others instead of focusing so much on yourself


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## MIndfAEL (Mar 13, 2012)

Thidwick said:


> One of the things that really annoys me about this board is how so many people want to deny that their situation is similar to everyone else's, as though their DP is "special" and can't be treated normally. It's this kind of special thinking that contributes to the problem. Anxiety is inherently related to dissociative disorders, and just because you aren't actively having a panic attack and aren't experiencing physical symptoms such as elevated heartbeat doesn't mean that you aren't anxious.
> 
> These people are obviously anxious about something, because they obsess about their symptoms and spend so much time on this message board in search of a cure.


exactly!! anxiety=worry. its very simple. many people probably have it without realizing it. and also like u said dp is very similar in everyone.


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

Thidwick said:


> One of the things that really annoys me about this board is how so many people want to deny that their situation is similar to everyone else's, as though their DP is "special" and can't be treated normally.


I have been trying to work out any motive for people who object very strongly to other people with symptoms different to their own. To me it just seems odd that one group of people would be so annoyed by another group's symptoms. Having dp without anxiety isn't special as you can see from the thread, but you have alerted me to a possibility that i hadn't considered; *some* people with anxiety + dp may feel that the anxiety makes them inferior.

Your statement above is almost saying as much: paraphrasing you - people who say they don't have anxiety when they do, are trying to look / feel superior / special to me and that annoys me

Quite a few great minds suffered anxiety and considerably fewer had dp - so, if you were trying to be a 'special undiscovered snowflake person', you would far more likely to choose to fiegn anxiety rather than its absence


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

mmarcus said:


> exactly!! anxiety=worry. its very simple. many people probably have it without realizing it. and also like u said dp is very similar in everyone.


Why can't you just accept that you don't have psychic powers? it so much simpler to take people's word about what they are thinking


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## Thidwick (May 30, 2012)

There may be some truly rare exceptions, but anxiety plays a role in almost everyone's DP, even if it isn't a main cause or symptom. That isn't to say that removing the anxiety will fix every problem, though is does for most people. Saying that you experience anxiety related to your DP isn't saying that you're immobilized by it -- only that your concern over your condition and your desire to find a solution maintains an anxiety loop that contributes to the problem.

Yes, everyone's symptoms are a little different. Yes, some recovery methods work better than some than for others. But anxiety almost always plays a role.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

I could say "stop worrying about it" for ANY problem a person has in life. How is this some unique insight into DP?


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

gill said:


> I could say "stop worrying about it" for ANY problem a person has in life. How is this some unique insight into DP?


I worry about people getting this condition and being told 'just try to ignore it'. With dp the advice leaves you with even less than you started with - you have now been told your plight is as trivial as a cold

I also think the whole 'ignore it and it will go away' thing is just a form of magical thinking. - It didn't go away? - ahh..you must have been thinking about it


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Juan said:


> DP is only a symptom of anxiety- I feel as if this forum has made it a much more standalone condition. you shouldn't think you have symptoms of DP- you should think symptoms of anxiety. If you learn to control the way you mentally react to anxiety, you change the way you will feel as well ( in a good way of course ). I learned to change the way I handle the feeling of nervous and anxious feelings, and I was able to make my dp dissipate. I realize many of you have had it for a long time, but the way you 'accepted dp', you have accepted your way of thinking and feeling of DP. If you still have it, you fear it. Why do you fear it? You don't fully understand it, and why it persists. If we all knew where to go to handle our anxiety better, none of you would have to live with this feeling anymore.


Instead of saying over and fucking over again the fact that DP is a symptom of anxiety and saying that we don't understand it, why don't you explain what the fuck you actually did and what there is to understand?

You offer a nice idea but you don't back it up or explain yourself in any posts.


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