# Depersonalization? I don't even know



## clockwork8 (May 9, 2013)

I don't even know what I'm doing by posting here but I feel like I should. If I decide to stay at the site then hello to everyone. Also, this is probably going to be a wall of text. I'm pretty sure I've been feeling dp almost constantly for about 4 months now. I'm not sure but the symptoms sound so much like what I experience? I'll just write some about my experiences here and see what happens. I guess to give some background... I am 22, college drop-out but I actually have a pretty decent job, and I've been pretty misanthropic and depressed for about 3 years. Although such feelings never seemed to cause any problem with being able to function.

Okay, so on to the dp: Since the middle of january of this year I've been feeling very weird all the time. I think I have many symptoms of dpd and several of anxiety. I'll say more about them later but for now I'll explain how it seems to have started.

I had never taken any recreational drugs before december of 2012 but near the end I decided to take DXM because a friend told me about it. It sounded interesting and was easy to get. It wasn't really for "fun" for me, and I do not really think I'd take any drugs just "for fun", but I like the idea of taking them to be able to think in different ways for a while or experience perceptions in different ways for a while. At least I liked the idea back then. So I got the DXM and I definitely took more than I should have - if you want more information about this exactly, just ask, but I'll avoid talking about it too much. But what happened was that I got extremely nauseated, extremely dizzy and disoriented, and eventually dissociated uncontrollably to the point where I felt like I was falling asleep consciously and could no longer feel my body or the world at all. I just experienced being dragged into numbness and lost all my awareness of the universe. I thought I was dying and I had a few panic attacks, one with full-blown symptoms, and vomitted twice. Not sure what else to say about it but it seemed really traumatic and maybe one of the worst experiences of my life.

Okay, so after that I felt a bit off the next day but then I was fine for about a month. I felt like I had recovered completely, and now just had a new memory of a very weird experience that I did not really want to repeat. Unfortunately about a month later I was lying in bed and thinking about existence... abstract things like "how can infinity exist? why does the universe exist? what happens after the universe ends? what happened before the big bang?" - etc, the usual stuff (or usual if you're like me! ). And anyway these were not really new thoughts to me, but somehow I stumbled into this sort of thought about how reality is all there is, and I'm inside of this system and I don't know what it is or why I'm here. This is really an understatement but you get the idea. I just started to feel very, very weird about existing at all, and I began to panic again, and I had another panic attack. Again after it ended I felt pretty normal and continued my life for a few more weeks. Then during february it got worse again and I kept having these returning thoughts, and I started to have more panic attacks. I've probably had like 20-30 separate instances of panic attacks by now, although in the last month they have resided mostly (2.5 weeks since I've had one... I can do this )

So... gradually throughout this period, especially at the beginning, I have just started to feel very weird all the time, even when I'm not panicking. Panic just makes it 10 times worse.

I often just feel like my self is empty. I don't feel like I know who or "what" I am. I often feel strange about the outside world: it feels like there's nothing surrounding me and I'm falling in space even though I'm sitting in a chair, or standing. I feel disconnected from my body and I think about how my body and the outside world are all just one thing, connected by atoms. I often feel my arms and legs going numb, but without any pins and needles, it's just like they aren't there at all, as if I was falling asleep... Then when I look out from my eyes, it feels like I'm just looking at a screen but I'm not really in the scene. My arms look like someone else's arms that I'm watching on a screen. I often feel like I could suddenly just lose all of my awareness of the world suddenly and like my consciousness could just slip out of the universe and into another reality, as if it was a sticker being pulled from a piece of paper. I feel like I'm floating often, etc.

I no longer feel like any place is "familiar" to me - my room, my house, where I work etc. all feels like some foreign place that I don't belong in, and I never feel safe anywhere. Everywhere I go, inside or out, it feels like I'm outside and totally vulnerable. I recognize these places mentally and know that I work and live and do stuff in them, but the emotional associations are just gone. I feel weird when I look at my reflection and I look at other people. Instead of seeing humans as other people, I generally can't help but to see them as these bizarre animals, with bizarre bodies, walking around and doing the most random of activities. Everything I do in my life feels random, and while I still go to work, still do activities I normally did like painting, programming, etc. it feels like my life is going nowhere and is just this pile of randomness. I feel very lost, and this exacerbates the feeling of "slipping out of reality"... feels like, because all of this stuff is just random, I feel like I'm barely even there at any place I'm ever at.

I often don't feel like the experience coming from my senses belongs to me. This is the most disturbing part. I even have it now somewhat. Reading the words I am typing does not feel like it's really me typing, and this is really disturbing / scary.

The more I notice these feelings, the more anxious I get about them, and sometimes it just gets so overwhelming that I start shaking and feel nauseous and freak out mentally obsessing over these feelings, especially like: "What am I? What am I doing in this world? Am I dying now? Is this world even real or am I going to find out that it's all a lie?". - Then I feel the impending doom as if the world will dissolve around me into a void, or into some other existence that is totally different and I will realize what my whole life was fake. I definitely have very bizarre ideas as well which I do not believe but can't help to think about and feel weirdly about - such as thinking that nobody else is really conscious, or that everyone has a totally different experience than me, or that I'm really everyone at once and I've just forgotten and I'll reconnect to realize I'm everyone after I die, or other bizarre thoughts like that. At least I think they're delusional... don't argue, these are really bad philosophy that no professional philosopher takes seriously.

So... does this sound like what others here experience?

It's difficult to deal with. I've been somewhat better than normal for the last week and a half but today I just had some awful feelings again. Looked at my arms while I was typing and they looked completely foreign, then I started to feel like they were numb and weak and like I couldn't remember how to move them. Yet I still could, I drove to the store and bought food, drove home etc. and all the while felt like I barely hanging on to my own feelings. It's like my consciousness was completely separated form the control of my body. The feeling persists now.

I mentioned above that I'd mention some other background information that might be related:

1. Between the first pat of 2011 and the middle of 2012, I had a friend who could probably be described as borderline personality disorder, but I had a very strong emotional attachment to them. as you can expect, I went through a lot of confusing and painful experiences with them, where they would hate me and decide to stop talking forever, or insult me and tell me how disgusting I am, and then really care about me at other times, or get angry at me about some random and small issue, etc., or be very needy and expecting me to be there all the time for them... etc., it just continued like that on and off until they decided to stop being my friend last year. I think it definitely felt too difficult for me too, and I don't think I'd want to talk to them again. Is this related to my current state? who knows.

2. I didn't have a job for about a year and 2 months between august of 2011 and october of 2012, and I was really isolated. I don't really have that many friends and only of them at the time was the one I mentioned above, so I had very little interaction with people. I don't think this is related, but again who knows.

3. Like I said before I have been quite depressed often for a few years. I have never looked for treatment for this and nor do I want to because I think my perceptions of the world are just realistic. Also I definitely had this for at least 3 years before 2013... but never any difficult anxiety, and never and dp-like symptoms.

So anyway, so far I've been to my general doctor twice, gotten diagnosed with auto-immune thyroid which is currently not causing problems but I will have to go back for to get checked every few months, a vitamin d deficiency (which I am taking supplements for?) and they suggested that my other experiences are anxiety and I was prescribed xanax. I took occasionally for about 2 months and then the prescription ran out and I haven't taken it in several weeks now. I have been mostly without panic for several weeks though so it's okay. The xanax prevents me from having panic, but doesn't prevent me from feeling depersonalization feelings... in fact, it sometimes exaggerated them and made me feel somewhat high even on the prescribed dose. Not a problem exactly since there was no anxiety, but certainly not a solution.

I saw one therapist twice and anther one once. I didn't find it useful at all any of the times I went, and I felt patronized and like I already knew anything we talked about, or that I was not really taken that seriously or something. Might try just seeing a psychiatrist and skipping the therapy soon, I am not sure.

I don't really know if I'm looking for help or anything, I'm sort of just posting to share that I have these experiences and hope that others can relate, and possibly feel comforted that they're not the only ones feeling this way.

P.S.: Does anyone else find it hard to pee while feeling like this? Peeing now makes me uncomfortable and a lot more detached feeling from my body, which in turn makes me tense and then it gets hard to pee at all.


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## clockwork8 (May 9, 2013)

Well it says 0 replies and 0 views. I just wanted to add here that I'm actually improving and I'll share what seems to be helping if anyone else is interested. I haven't had a panic attack in 5 weeks and I've spent less and less days with dp since I wrote the above post. When I do get it, I can usually dismiss it without worrying. I took my last 0.5 mg xanax 5 weeks ago and I haven't gotten another prescription yet. I haven't needed it.

A few days after writing the above post, I spent a lot of time thinking about what was painful in my life, and wrote about it. I told myself how I am going to protect myself now because I am capable of doing that, and not let others be hurtful to me, and that painful experiences are over. I had an argument with my mom actually because I felt like something she wanted from me was emotionally hurtful. I felt huge anxiety during those moments but the next day I felt a lot better than I would have if I had ignored it.

I also told myself to be more open with other current friends because they are not the ones who have hurt me and that I should try not to suppress my emotions when I talk to them, and should express my real emotions to them. And I've been trying to do that. I've felt more emotional in the last few weeks than I have for several years, or maybe even more than any point I can remember. I try to force myself to show these emotions to friends I care about, and they actually seem to be accepting of me and I feel like I am becoming more comfortable around them. It is really hard and I am really afraid before I do it, but after doing it and seeing that they just accept me and want to help and that my anxiety was for nothing, it really helps a lot.

Then also I've been practicing this strategy when I get anxiety or dp where I start to calculate random math problems, as a distraction when its too much to dismiss in another way. If I can't think of one I force myself to just count backwards by 7's until I'm distracted enough. It works if I force myself to do it. Sometimes when I've tried this, I would notice myself getting stuck at a certain number and forgetting what I was doing and starting to feel dissociation. I had to catch myself and force myself to focus on continuing the problem, and if I did that for a few minutes it usually helped a lot.

I feel like these things combined, plus a decent amount of time and making note of how long I've gone without panic or dp (i.e. notice: Okay, it's been a week since I had a panic attack, that's good... it's been a week since dp, that's good) has helped.

I know these things may not even seem that related to my original post... and in most ways, they aren't. But from what I've read here and in other places about dp, I'm convinced that the causes are mainly built up emotional pain and suppression of emotions from past points in my life - nothing changed between 2012 and 2013 in the external world, I'm not seeing a more accurate view of reality, it's not about philosophical realization... it feels like it, but that makes no sense, otherwise dp would happen to everyone and it would have happened to me years ago.

Yes it can happen after triggers like my bad experiences on dxm, but the drug isn't the cause. And I'm sure in the case of weed (seems the most common trigger for it) the drug isn't to blame either. But these drugs can remind you and amplify how much your suppressed emotions are really still there, and still not addressed or expressed by you, and it seems like they can just push you a little over the edge. But you were already on that edge and balancing insecurely. Most people who use weed and dxm don't get dp afterwards, because they weren't on that edge when they took it.

May write more later. I don't know if this is the right place but I'm just putting it here because I don't want to start a new thread anywhere else. Responses welcome if you have suggestions for me, or just can relate.


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## LuluCalavera (Jan 21, 2013)

email me if you like I dont get on here much as I have recovered [email protected]

my story is somewhat similar


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## Swansea (Jun 11, 2013)

Hey how are you doing now? I relate to pretty much everything you said about the anxiety. panic attacks, and feeling like things aren't real. I also get weird philosophical ruminations like feeling like I'm going to fall into some sort of void or transcend this plane of existence or some crazy shit. I know these things aren't realistic thoughts obviously.


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## GabbyMendek (Jun 30, 2013)

email me as welll.. I feel the same way. [email protected]


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## clockwork8 (May 9, 2013)

lltayloe said:


> Hey how are you doing now? I relate to pretty much everything you said about the anxiety. panic attacks, and feeling like things aren't real. I also get weird philosophical ruminations like feeling like I'm going to fall into some sort of void or transcend this plane of existence or some crazy shit. I know these things aren't realistic thoughts obviously.


Yeah, I've definitely felt like that's what's going to happen. Like I'm just going to slip out of my body and transcend this plane of existence, as if I were falling asleep and entering a dream, but fully conscious.

Actually I'm doing alright. I haven't had any panic attacks since before the last post. I almost had one about 2 weeks ago but I distracted myself by playing counter-strike and the anxiety went away after a while.

I still have weird philosophical ideas like what I described but I haven't really gotten anxiety from them recently - and without anxiety, no dp/dr either. The longer I've gone without panic attacks, the less dp/dr I've felt. The longer I've gone without dxm, the less dp/dr I've felt.

Distraction has really been the most helpful thing. Sometimes it's really hard but if I just force myself to focus on a task in the actual world, after a while it helps. Knowing that I can reduce the feeling and that it's possible to feel normal again helps a lot. When I feel dp/dr I try to remember that. Actually, even if some of the "crazy" philosophical ideas are actually true, it doesn't matter, because you don't have to think about them right now. Hey, another thing that comforts me a lot is to think of this: I get scared of existence being an empty void or of my self ceasing to exist. So I think of how sleeping is basically a "void" where sense of self and consciousness is usually gone. But sleeping feels great, and I do this every day, and I actually need it. So why am I afraid of such a state? There is nothing to be afraid of because it actually feels good. The -real cause- of the fear is from other events in my life, not my existential thoughts. I already know what the state of not being a self and not being conscious is like and shouldn't be afraid of it, I go there every day.


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## Swansea (Jun 11, 2013)

Wow, thats a really awesome thought/ analogy. DP/DR almost gives me anxiety because it does feel like i'm going to cease to exist or some sort of bizarre ego death. But, sleeping feels just great and fine. Maybe it is the fear and consciousness of DP/DR that makes it so much worse. Maybe if more of us spent more time letting go we would find DP/DR slip away like its some sort of illusion,


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## Arabella_Stuart (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi. My dp is just starting. Began to feel it three months back. I just learned it is called dp after i started searching using the symptoms i feel. Everything that you guys feel is what i exactly been experiencing/feeling. I am so helpless and sad because i cannot tell it to anyone because they surely wont understand me (i am currently in thephilippines). I am so worried.


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## clockwork8 (May 9, 2013)

I took celexa about 5 days ago and my dp has gotten worse after that, even though I had no symptoms for about 2 months before that, I almost had a panic attack on the day I took it, had to take more xanax since then. Didn't get prescribed this it for dp though. I am/was pretty skeptical of ssris to begin with.  Not going to continue taking it.

Yesterday I was talking to my mother and suddenly got dp'd and fear about it. It was like this person was not even my mother and was some random person, like I was in a stranger's house and I didn't know why. I told her I didn't feel well enough and went to distract myself by cooking and doing other stuff but I felt dp'd for the rest of the night.


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## Jb3083 (Jan 17, 2014)

I have the same symptoms you have/had. Mine has definitely decreased in severity but I still feel unreal and detached from reality. I constantly question how I exist and I feel foreign in the city I've lived in for 10 years. My family and close friends feel like strangers. I feel like I'm stuck in my mind all alone. I feel like I'm in a dream. I look at myself in the mirror and don't recognize myself or feel a connection. This all started because I started a new job after 10 years at the same small company and it triggered panic attacks and extreme anxiety. After that, I constantly felt DPDR. But I had to keep coming to work even though I desperately wanted to quit. I couldn't even walk through the parking lot without feeling detached from my body. It freaks me out that we all have thoughts that occur in our minds and we are the only ones aware. It also scares me how I can't see my own face, I have to look at my reflection to see it. I don't know why that bothers me. Anyway, I'm on month 7 of this. At first I couldn't do anything. I couldn't go to the bank or the grocery store or drive my car without feeling strong DPDR and disconnected from myself. I still feel that way but I am learning how to live with it. I feel like the gaps between the DPDR episodes is getting longer but I still experience it everyday. Like this morning, I went to the restroom at work and I felt a panic attack coming on because I kept thinking how I'm real and how I'm alone in my own mind. My body felt foreign. I try to ignore it though and carry on. All I can do is try to keep m


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## Jb3083 (Jan 17, 2014)

...


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## Jb3083 (Jan 17, 2014)

...moving forward hoping to one day find myself again. I tried three different psychiatrists with no luck. This has been the most difficult thing I've ever been through. I am 30 years old and never contemplated suicide until this point in my life. However I could never do that. It's just an intrusive thought bc I want relief so badly. All I can do is try to survive each day. I've also done the numbers thing to distract myself. I'll count my steps or repeat a phrase to myself. I know they say to avoid nicotine but smoking cigs calms me down. Anyway. This is my first time posting but I've visited this site a lot.


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## clockwork8 (May 9, 2013)

Jb3083 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just joined and replied to one of your posts. I was wondering how you're doing. Have you improved?
> 
> Thanks


Hey Jb3083.

I just read your reply.

I definitely relate to and understand what you mean when you say you can't walk to your car to into a store or anywhere without feeling like you're detached from your body. Sometimes when I walked through parking lots or grocery stores while DP'd I felt like I was just going to start floating in the air and gravity would just stop working, or that my body was just going to stand there and somehow a mind of me would float out of it through the air. And yeah, it definitely freaked me out a lot how I'm having my own experience and thoughts that nobody else is part of even though we can all see each other in the physical space. The interior thoughts being private and not having any apparent way to connect to others can be scary. Perhaps it is possible to connect each others' minds with some technology or in some other way, but there is obviously no way that is currently known, and until then we will still feel the strange mystery of being "alone" even when we're with someone else.

Yes I have definitely improved / gotten better. I haven't even had any noticeable DP for months. I've been spending a lot of time with a friend I'm really close with for the last 3-4 months which is probably helping a lot, I had almost no "in person" social connections really for almost 2 years before that. I mean it was hard to have that since people I felt close to did not live near me. The one I've been spending time with recently lives far away too (in a different state) so it has been sort of difficult still.

I had one instance of that "feeling a panic attack coming" a few weeks ago the morning after drinking some alcohol (I almost never drink normally), realized what it was, and then took 0.25mg xanax after about 5 minutes. 10 minutes later I was feeling completely fine and went to sleep again. Since then I haven't had any symptoms. I had none prior to that for at least 3-4 months as well. Alcohol is an NMDA antagonist (a receptor involved in dissociative symptoms) so it may be a result of that.

I've also been moving locations a lot and am trying to rent a house in another state. This has been pretty difficult and I have not had much time to do the activities I normally do, I've basically spent all of my time doing this and it feels like I do not even have a home anymore. Surprisingly, this has not contributed to DP.

I can also use caffeine again without any problems, I don't know if that was ever a trigger for it but earlier in 2013 it seemed like I'd get a panic attack or dp later in the day if I took caffeine. Now that does not happen at all.

I never ended up staying on the SSRI's. I've also taken multivitamins in october and december but haven't had the money to do it consistently. I'd like to try doing it more consistently eventually though. I'm not sure if that helped or not, I don't think it did much for DP but it did improve my energy.

Have you taken any benzos? I think they're pretty helpful for times when you can feel DP or panic coming and you are trying your hardest to distract yourself or change how you feel but it is not helping. I'd recommend them as long as you understand that you shouldn't use them every day or depend on them completely. I think they can really help to recover though.

I think one of the most important factors of recovering for me has been recognizing moments when you have your associations to the world affixed and when you can focus on something specific, or otherwise feel normal and not DP'd or not panicked, and to note that it is possible to feel this way and the change of states does not mean you are delusional. I think you realize that.

I'll just say something I've thought of about DP recently after my experiences with it, and that is it seems like it is primarily being inhibited from making abstract "separations" between any objects. The separation between all things seems to only be abstract, they are all part of a combined system and the mind creates the separation of "this person" and "that table" and "my body" or "the outside world", but while feeling DP these things seem combined, and it becomes paradoxical feeling how one can only experience a small part of the world if these separations are not there. It also feels like one's body is no longer owned by the self. Also it causes it to be difficult to focus on any intellectual tasks because one can't direct their focus to a specific task and block out the rest of the world as well.

Another thing about NMDA receptors: NMDA receptors are responsible for synaptic plasticity which is responsible for learning/memory. I am not exactly sure how NMDA antagonism translates into depersonalization. but a theory I have for improving DP symptoms is to do memory exercises frequently, like a task where one memorizes new words or a list of things or plays a memory game. I haven't been able to test it but it seems like it might be useful.


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