# No longer believe in objective reality and very sad



## mayathebee

I think it's finally time to introduce myself. I've been visiting these boards on and off for some time, unable to distinguish whether reading other people's stories and focusing on Dp/dr makes me feel better or worse.

I have been struggling for a little over a year now. I've had two other DP/DR episodes in my life- once in highschool when my parents got divorced and the second time in college when a friend passed away, each episode lasting about half a year. I'm 28 years old next week. I somehow manage to work full time, take classes, do yoga, and stay in touch with a small group of people, but most days I feel like my life is slipping out from under me. Like I'm evaporating.

My main issue is very very severe existential terror. I don't understand how existence can exist. This supposed reality, that there is a universe randomly, the Big Bang theory, the existence of human life, consciousness, birth, death, etc. all just seems so strange and far fetched that I no longer really believe it.

Perhaps there was a time when I believed these were all just symptoms of a disorder, and that life and people around me did really exist but I don't feel that way anymore. I feel nearly convinced that nothing is real. What upsets me the most about this is the idea that the people I love- especially my parents, friends, and partner- may not be real. I love them so much and I can't stand the thought of them not being objectively real. For a long time I thought obsessively about this, trying to prove reality somehow but as you all know there is no way to do this. I know many of you will say to let go and stop trying to prove it and just enjoy my experiences and I try to do this, I try very hard, succeeding some days in just enjoying whatever it is, whether or not it's real. But there is always a voice nagging in the back of my head, about not knowing for sure, and then becoming terribly anxious and depressed by this.

I have other strange "symptoms", such as people looking flat. As if there was no three dimensional backside to them. I also think a lot about time and sometimes feel like now is the only moment that exists, that my past didn't really happen. I don't know it's hard to explain. I also end up staring at my hands while writing something and feeling very detached from them. Like they are not part of my body.

I have moments of clarity, where things feel real... but the minute this current state of thought returns, it feels as though the "real moments" were me just living in the false reality and not realizing it. Like I was blinded by the illusion temporarily and then eventually return to the true nature of things.

I see a psychiatrist who is running out of ideas. She can't decide if this is severe OCD or some sort of psychosis. We've tried so many medications, cymbalta, abilify, haldol, effexor, seroquel, prozac. I am now weaning off f effexor and we are going to try Zoloft, which helped me in highchool and college, along with seroquel.

I have also been seeing a therapist over the past year who doesn't know how to help me anymore. She's referred me to a CBT specialist who I will be starting to see weekly shortly.

I feel like there were more things o wanted to say but I can't think of them now. That is the basic gist of it- basically no longer believing in true objective reality and feeling very sad, anxious, lonely, and hopeless about it.

If you all exist for real, then I hope this post gives you some solace. You are not alone. If you aren't real... Then I guess it doesn't matter ????


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## Sam1814

I have no advice... But I'm in the same mental state as you. And I am very, unpleasantly, miserably, "real".


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## ThoughtOnFire

When you find yourself fighting existential Dragons... you better learn to fight back, real or not.


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## Breanna

I can relate a lot with what you are saying especially the bits about things appearing flat and almost feeling like the sheet of reality can be pulled up from my eyes to reveal the truth. I also battle often with the ideas if people exist or don't exist and what that even means? I know it's really difficult. I was in CBT for quite a while and basically stopped after 7 years of therapy. I started meditating a lot and diving into what I was so afraid of. Regardless of how we formulate or analyze, reality is happening and the best thing is to find what is it that scares you about it being real or not real and really allow yourself to start feeling those emotions. If that makes sense? it's really different for everyone. but for me taking medications stopped helping and so did everything else, until I really faced myself. That was about three years ago. A year ago I really hit rock bottom and out of that I just started choosing to believe that I did have control. That's all you can do to function. Like I said, at the end of the day it is happening and a lot of it is quite beautiful. Getting outside of your thoughts and formulations of life is helpful, I study cultures and religions. Just immerse yourself and try to move beyond the questions. It's nearly impossible, I do it everyday but trying to come to some form of peace in the questions can help. You aren't alone, and I am real.  Hope this helps.


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## mayathebee

Thoughtsonfire, can you expand on that? Do you have experience with these thoughts? Have you overcome them?

How do you fight back? I fight. I fight every f*cking day tooth and nail but most days feel like I'm losing the battle. ????


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## mayathebee

Bfederico, what scares me the most is that my loved ones may not be real. Some days I feel convinced, that I KNOW they are not real. Other days I'm just questioning. But either way, the overarching feeling is one of lonliness and depression at being alone in the universe.


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## ThoughtOnFire

mayathebee said:


> Thoughtsonfire, can you expand on that? Do you have experience with these thoughts? Have you overcome them?
> 
> How do you fight back? I fight. I fight every f*cking day tooth and nail but most days feel like I'm losing the battle.


Yes I experience thoughts of existential solipsism and am currently having a waves of these thoughts.

I suppose what I meant by fighting these thoughts is too face them as a possibility and not run from them but consider them and usually the clear picture will present itself.


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## Breanna

What does it really mean to not be real though? You are still surrounded by something, so are you really alone?


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## mayathebee

Not real as in not objectively real. Not real outside of my own experience and interpretation of things. Perhaps just some sort of illusion with no real souls to connect to. I don't know how else to explain it but it is so unbelievably depressing


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## Breanna

Mm i know what you mean but I think the problem is that we are inherently subjective the objective is only theoretical. So I don't think there is any way to prove to yourself either way because the idea of something being objectively real is completely abstract to begin with. I think the only thing that you can do is try to back away from those questions all together and instead remove the discomfort and value from the endless fear. Try to accept both as possibilities and know in the end you have control over your experiences, internally. it's not an easy route but it is the most longlasting.


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## WorkingOnIt

I struggle with this as well. Anxiety gives us an inflated sense of "self importance" in my opinion.

In typical life we view the world as self / other. That is ... there's us and there's everything else. Us vs the world. Me and MY family etc. When dissociation strikes, this relationship changes to other / other. That is we feel there is no us, there is only other. The flip side of this coin is that there is self / self. Meaning we are participants of all things and that all things are interconnected. This means different opinions are still valuable. They don't need to be considered wrong or right, they just need to be considered. I know this sounds kind of woo woo and new agey, but I think it's more practical than solipsism.

Essentially, there's solipsism, and on the complete other end of the spectrum is non-duality. One is extreme rejection, and the other is extreme acceptance. One is depression, and the other is peace.

Look, you're typing on a forum, who are you talking to? Everything you need is infront of your eyes. In this moment, you have no problems. Everything else is an extrapolation of mental masturbation. My gut tells me that our thoughts and words are precisely as important as the songs of birds. I'm not saying don't think, I'm saying make it a tool to connect with the world, not distance from it.


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## mayathebee

Workingonit, I'm not sure I undertand your post. Can you explain a bit more? What is non duality?


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## Haumea

Strictly speaking, our notions of "objectivity" aren't real but merely a sort of approximation, a social consensus if you will.

Here's a mental experiment for you to try: let's say instead of about 4.5% of the world's population being colorblind, 99.9% were.

The 0.1% of the population would likely be marginalized as freaks, and there would be considerable social pressure to believe that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COLOR. COLOR IS NOT OBJECTIVELY REAL.

This is kind of what you get with, e.g. people capable of ESP, paranormal powers, heightened perception of spiritual reality and so on THESE DAYS.

"Objectivity" is thus not a hard truth, but sort of an incomplete truth, an approximation that fails at the edges. The closer you get to the edges the more you realize that the observation *depends on the nature of the observer*.

So, your anxiety is related to this fundamental conflict - that there's such a thing as rigid, hard objectivity, like something you can hold in your hand.

But reality of the mind is just a model, a map for the "real" reality, which can only be perceived subjectively, with the quality of the perception dependent on the psychological freedom of the observer.

The kind of questions about the nature of reality that are generated by this are best answered by philosophy or religion, not science or our secular culture.


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## pohlhammer.tom

I've been having the same exact thoughts that you have with the difference that I maintain myself deeply skeptical about the idea of this "objective reality". What I mean by this is that even though I find myself very suspicious about reality and the idea of existence seems overwhelming to me because I can't deal with it, I can´t prove that there isn't an "objective reality". On the contrary, science has been giving us "evidence" about the factical reality for centuries, so in that case I guess that the rational thing is to lean towards the idea of acceptance of this reality and also the idea that the problem is just inside our heads and that it can be fixed.

I think your problem is that you've come to "believe" in the non existence of something that History, science and the every day people you see have been tipping the scale in favor of the actual existence of this reality. Having said that, I can say I question reality almost all the time, but I know don't have a single bit of evidence to affirm that it doesn't exist, so the only thing a can safely say to myself in those moments is "maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't and everything that "is" exists only in my head, but everything points in the direction that the world actually exists outside my head". Besides, the fact that you've come to "believe" in something without any real evidence is a very human thing, same as christians believe in god having no prove about it's existence. Irrational thoughs are very human, so you're being very human for the fact of having this thoughs and therefore you're probably very real and so am I. I think you should consider accepting the fact that "we just don't know" instead of believing something that we as humans will probably never be able to prove.

Anyway, Im curious about why your doctor would consider this to be some sort of psychosis, can you be more specific about that? I think that your problem is very anxiety and DP type, so I can't really see the psychosis angle on it.


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## Haumea

I find a problem with the argument that scientific achievement over the centuries is somehow sufficient to prove objective reality.

Like I said, scientific models are an approximation - they work within certain parameters and fail at the edges. So, e.g. Newtonian mechanics works within certain dimensions of time and space, but fails outside them.

The more you get into areas like quantum physics, the more subjectivity is involved. The more you get into human psychology, e.g. the more you see that materialism alone fails to get desired results. So the subjective aspect is crucial.

The notion of objective reality is a mental construct which cannot be proven by merely pointing to the low-hanging fruit of technological and scientific progress. This is the argument materialists like to use, but it is invalid: there are better explanations for this evidence (such as that I mentioned above - that things work to an approximation of but do not explain *all of *reality.)


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## Meticulous

I used to suffer the same existential crisis that you have mentioned. I experienced a sudden loss when it came to connecting with anything seen in the physical world. At times, the world would seem like a beautiful place inside of my head, but when it became reality, I just could not pull myself in to the moment.

As time passes, and the more I learn, the more I realize that this really isn't all as bad as we portray it to be. Whether anything we view is "real" or not, something exists. We may never know the answer, but we definitely exist in something. Wasting our time questioning this existence takes away our time to experience it. Positivity is the universally prominent energy, so why not gravitate towards it? Dreams may not be objectively "real," but we'd all rather experience a beautiful dream than a nightmare. Accept the life you were given, don't dissect it, and experience!


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## mayathebee

Pohlhammer,
Thank you for your words. I try to say "I just don't know" instead of "I know it's not real" but the problem is this sense that I get. This sense that it's all too far fetched. That it can't possibly be real. 
I guess psychosis because I actually believe it instead of just feeling like it. I don't know. To be honest at this point I pray for psychosis. I would MUCH rather be mentally ill than have my experience be the true nature of things- no objective reality... I can't handle that


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## Ningen

You have severe OCD. Contrary to popular belief, OCD can cause depersonalization or psychosis, as in my case. Your mind has become entangled with this delusion and the only way you can recover is to reverse your thinking. Most often the only way to accomplish this is to avoid focusing too much on the problem. It is difficult, but it is the only clear solution.


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## mayathebee

Ningen, 
Thank you for your words. I'm assuming you can relate to these existential thoughts? How do you cope??? Any tips?


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## Ningen

No, not existential thoughts. Just a blank mind. Though whenever I am thinking I am always thinking existentially.


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## Long

Hello. I struggled with existential thoughts back when I could think, and I actually found peace by hitting rock bottom. I deconstructed everything as far as it could go, looked around, and acknowledged that I couldn't "know" anything. Once you get to that point, then you can start thinking about what is natural for you (as much of a you as there is) to believe or take for granted. Then, depending on what beliefs you use to shape your worldview, you can start building your way back up into a comfortable place. I, for instance, started by considering my own existence. I figured that believing that I exist was more useful than not believing it, so I assumed it was true. Likewise, I found it very hard to not know if there was an objective reality, because I perceived something around me which I thought to be objective to myself. So I took that belief for granted because it is useful to me. I do not see myself as being in control of my sensations, so I choose to believe that those sensations are accurately relaying information from the outside objective world I've already established in my worldview. I also find that I am uncomfortable when I perceive myself to be in pain, so another one of my beliefs is that pain is bad and should be avoided. And so on and so forth I progressed, constructing my worldview. Now, this only works if you feel that you can rationalize your way through the process, as I did, but if so this technique may be useful to you. I'm not intimately familiar with psychosis, but I know how hard it is to fight against something you believe to be true, and I wish you all the best of luck on your journey, friend.


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## sunshinita

I also think it's not a psychosis, it's just very severe OCD ( the one that I have) you just got stuck in that state of mind, stuck with this feeling, I am too, mine is a little different but it's the same thing actually-irrational existential fear and helpelssness. I think my psychiatrist also thinks I am psychotic. That doesn't mean it's true, nobody without DP can understand actaully what it feels like. I have so much anxiety that is turning into bad depression. My new diagnosis is ''progressive depression with dissociative elements' where's the anxiety and ocd in that diagnosis? And I am put on antipsychotics. I took Seroquel two days in a roll and it made me almost call an ambulance, it was soooo bad. So I am not taking it anymore, on Friday I am starting a new one. I said to my psychiatrist that I need antidepressants not antipsychotics but he believes that my obsession is so deep that only antipsychotics will help me. So basically, I don't think we are psychotic. I do get racing mind with irrational not connected one to another thoughts,bizzare and strane ( they are similar to those thoughts that we experience while falling asleep), I have a racing mind every nights, stuck in reality 24/7, panic attacks, sometimes my depression gets so severe and deep that I don't want to live anymore. But still... I don't think we are psychotic, because we are aware of the problem and of the uncomfortable feeling.


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## mayathebee

Ughhhh I had two good weeks and now it's back full force. I spent today feeling FULLY CONVINCED that nothing is real. I can feel fine for a moment but then I just go back to the idea of the universe and how foreign and strange that is and how it's too bizarre to be real. And I can't deal with this anymore ????


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## mayathebee

Someone please help. This is full blown terror.


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## mayathebee

oh god I can't deal with this


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## WorkingOnIt

You had two good weeks. What was that like? The thoughts left you completely or what? Remember that thoughts are only that ... thoughts. They can't hurt you and they're only interpretations. There is much more to life than thinking all day.


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## mayathebee

How to stop thinking though! I guess a part of me is scared that if I stop thinking about this I will die. Like if let go of my knowledge about the truth of the universe, my mind, or this higher level of consciousness will die. I will disintegrate into nothingness. And at the same time, I should be fine with that since all it causes me is pain. But I can't let go. There's fear in thinking yhe thoughts and also fear in letting them go.
The two weeks were good because I wasn't consumed. The thoughts were still there at times but I was able to also be present in what was happening around me, able to laugh, have fun with friends, etc


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## WorkingOnIt

Yeah, I think more and more you will have experiences like the two weeks, and that will become the majority of the time.

It's the same as getting over anything, I suppose. You've had bad relationships where you thought you couldnt lose the person, but you couldnt stay with them either? It's all fear.


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## mayathebee

My new cbt therapist just helped me realize something...he compared my feeling about dying/disappearing if I stop thinking about this, to any other ocd false belief... And that thinking about the universe and existence is just A mental ritual that I need to practice letting go of

I know this will be easier said than done but it was a helpful comparison nonetheless


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## jimmyjoejimbob

"My main issue is very very severe existential terror. I don't understand how existence can exist."

This is currently one of my biggest problems/fears. I've had derealization for about 2 and a half years now.. I've gotten so used to it and things have definitely gotten a lot better. I think all the time of having derealization and not having any of my terrible fears actually happen, has made me pretty good at just ignoring everything. I still feel and think about it every day, but I don't have the extreme anxiety of it anymore. Kind of like I've given up, but only because that is what I've read will make it go away. I try to live life as absolutely normal as I can and just ignore it and tell myself that derealization isn't going to stop me. It still puts a huge damper on my everyday life and emotions, wondering about existence and if things are actually real, but I just ignore it the best I can and live my life.

"I feel nearly convinced that nothing is real."

^^ I hate this. I always read how people with DP/DR feel that things are unreal or in a dream world, but like you I actually feel convinced at times. It's not that I'm set on the idea that nothing is real, but I'm not convinced that everything is real either. It's just an unsure feeling. I hate when I read things like "people with DP/DR feel as though things are unreal, yet never completely lose touch with reality". Like I said, it's not that I believe that reality is unreal.. I just don't 100% believe that it is real either.

When you say you're convinced nothing is real though, what do you believe the alternative is? For me it's like the idea that everything I know and see is just all in my head. Like other people aren't truly real, but part of my imagination or something.


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## mayathebee

Yes it's definitely disheartening to read in all the DP forums and books about "reality testing" and that for most people it's just a feeling and not a belief.

I can't decide what I believe any more. I try to tell myself every day that of course it's possible things are real and it's also possible that they're not but most of the time I just feel like it's too bizarre to be real. The idea of the universe... And existence in general... I get caught up on that and i end up feeling like there's just no way...

It's als hard to explain what my belief about an alternative is. I mean I can tell nyself "I think and i feel this fear so at least I must be real" but sometimes I hAve a brain explosion and start feeling like even I don't exist and everything is nothingness. I don't know it's very hard to explain but yeah I start worrying that nothing is real, including myself, and that there is no existence and I've evaporated. Makes no sense when I write it out... I acknowledge that.

My therapist said these are very normal, human questions and fears, and they have to do with not knowing what happens when we die and a fear of insignificance.

I don't know I get so confused and brain fucked all I know is that I feel extreme terror most of the time.

I want to let go so badly... But I cant. It feels like if I let go I will disintegrate. So I hold on. But the holding on causes so much pain

i don't know f I've made any sense... ????


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## ElusiveAt7t2

I hate existentialism. So much. It is incredibly frustrating. I remember being very young (and I mean maybe 5 or 6 years old) and I was sitting in my parent's basement and I thought, "the universe doesn't end. What's behind it?" I could only imagine this green screen type situation. And that's it. Now I think, "How do I know I'm not making all of this up?" Then I realize I don't understand all the foreign languages. That keeps me in check. If I made it all up, I think I'd understand them. But it's scary.

I'm a doctoral student in the humanities (*hellooooo existentialism!*), which one might argue is the most useless thing anyone could invest in. So it's difficult for me to argue why it matters. But when I do, I consequently put the universe into perspective. I realize that I study a period in the not-too-distant past and, eventually, no one will remember that period and it won't matter. But, no. It does. What it comes down to is legacy. That's why we exist. That's why we procreate. So if you invest in something you care about and something with which you can fully participate, you may see the bigger picture.

I find myself having the existentialist moments when I'm at stoplights. I'm much happier when I'm doing something else. I didn't read the entire thread, so I apologize if you've already answered this, but are you doing something with your life that you truly enjoy? You can private message me if you want. I'm really spacey and am not sure how much I'll stay on top of posting (this is my first response post. I joined an hour ago).


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## mayathebee

Ughhhhhhh! I never imagined this was possible but I've somehow sunken into a deeper darker scarier place than I was when I first wrote this post. Lately I feel 100% certain this is all an illusion. And Its terribly painful to go about my day pretending to be invested in the life around me when I don't believe any of it. And yet there's no alternative. I feel stuck here. I won't kill mtself because not existing at all is equally as scary. So what can I ro?! My cbt therapist has me trying to relabel ("this is just ocd"), reattribute ("this is due to a signal malfunction in my brain"), and then refocus on something else but it doesn't work Bevause I don't believe that's true. Help!


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## pohlhammer.tom

I used to get really scared with these kind of thoughts, but I'm better now. One day I was thinking about reality and the possibility that existence was just inside my head, and then I came to this conclusion: I have only been able to start thinking about the possibility of existence and reality because of my interpretation of the world around me and the concepts that I've learned living there, like language, philosophy, science, etc. Therefore one could say that all existential though is only possible by learning about and interpreting the world you've been living all your life, so my conclusion is that the reality that you doubt is proof of the existence of that reality. Does this make any sense?


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## mayathebee

Oh god he last thirty hours were maybe the worst it's ever been. I sincerely thought I was either dead and in some weird version of hell that seems benign but can't possible be because I'm stuck with my own thoughts all alone in the universe. That OR I'm having a psychotic break. I know that's bery black and white thinking but that's how I felt. Just called my parents crying. They suggested a hospital but I don't want to fuck with my meds. I just started anafranil and I want to give it a real chance first. I feel like if I check myself in somewhete they will give me some crazy concoction and I'll never recover. Meanwhile, I'm desperately trying to be mindful and just let the thoughts pass by without engaging in them but I'm so fucking frustrated. Helpppp


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## Haumea

maya,

Certain activities, like sports, drench you in endorphins and help drive away rumination. The way out of this is to find your center beyond the rumination.

The rumination is a product of mental ego processes which take over when one isn't centered/grounded in oneself.


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## oksfyre

Definately focusing on tasks helps, and goals for the future. It gives some purpose and focus away from the thoughts. I have constant obsessive thoughts but find they fade away when I'm really engaged in something. Sucks as now I have to keep my self occupied pretty much 24/7 and am a workaholic because of it. I'm still trying to find a way around that but it has helped with the thoughts at least. Hope you're feeling better today


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## MarLen

I try to understand something... In NORMAL life people belive in something, they don't looking for the ansvers. So let's find your own way and even sometimes you hestitate you sholud remeber that it's normal and it's life. The worst question - I'm doing something and I cant belive that i want it and the people want it. So let's see what i want. For sure i wanna be healthy for that shit so why I'm thinking about it? You don't want to think about it so let's do do something what you want.


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## dev0id

I know it's been a while since you last posted here, I just wanted to say that reading your posts, I relate 100% to everything you talk about. And the whole thing about feeling as if you'll "disappear" or die or your consciousness will fade away if you stop thinking about these things is spot on what I'm going through. I want to forget about feeling this way and stop thinking about it but at the same time I think that this will somehow make me less aware of reality and that my current state is like a higher level of consciousness, therefore sometimes I actually MAKE myself think existential thoughts. It's like I'm forcing myself to be "aware" because I'm afraid if I'm not on this supposed "higher level" of consciousness, I'll go through my whole life being "unaware" and waste my entire life and that also terrifies me. I didn't ever make the connection between this belief and OCD until now. I hope you and I both get better soon.


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## NobodysHome

When I was a child, I came up with this idea that as soon as I left a room, everyone "froze". I used to imagine that as I was walking out of my friends' houses, everyone stopped what they were doing and would only be alive when I could witness them. This is not terribly unusual in small children because they are egocentric. However, I sometimes revisit this thought in my adulthood. It's extremely isolating.

I often think that I am imagining everything and that everything I see/hear/experience is my own invention. Then I remind myself that I am too dumb to come up with such a complex dream and that helps ground me.


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## Sam1814

^ this is me. 100%


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## eter

mayathebee said:


> How to stop thinking though! I guess a part of me is scared that if I stop thinking about this I will die. Like if let go of my knowledge about the truth of the universe, my mind, or this higher level of consciousness will die. I will disintegrate into nothingness. And at the same time, I should be fine with that since all it causes me is pain. But I can't let go. There's fear in thinking yhe thoughts and also fear in letting them go.
> The two weeks were good because I wasn't consumed. The thoughts were still there at times but I was able to also be present in what was happening around me, able to laugh, have fun with friends, etc


I think, from my personal experience, you would benefit from talking meds like Risperidon, Zyprexa, Klozapin, Quetiapin. You need to slow down your head. Let your head rest a little while. Talk to your doctor. You are in a very agitated state. You need to get help to get down. Ok? I am not saying you have a psychosis. I am just saying you ned to rest from your head a little while. Ok? And these can help you with that.

What have you been doing today?


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## eter

I see know the author of this post has not been online since June 30 th. I hope she got committed, and is in recovery.


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## mayathebee

Hi All,

I've been doing much better over the past two months. Not saying the odd thoughts are gone completely but they have definitely lessened in intensity.

Things that seem to have helped:


Anafranil! This has been the definitive reason of my near-recover
Falling in love
Having good sex
Staying SUPER BUSY
Creative writing... started a blog - https://cascadingchaos.wordpress.com/

another thing that has helped is to just focus on impermanence. And to remind myself that the scary shitty feelings are so temporary and to just ride the wave of uncomfortable feelings.

good luck and love to everyone struggling with this


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## eddy1886

I just read your original post and i can identify with you 100%

Glad your feeling a bit better...

Anafranil seems to have done a few people the world of good on here...

I would advise you to not just stop it suddenly because you think your feeling better...If its not broken dont try to fix it...

I learned this the hard way with Citalopram...I was getting very good results on it and stupidly decided to try come off it...Bang i was back in deep DP in no time..Went back on the Citalopram and didnt get the same results second time around......I am now on Effexor with ok results but not as good as my original experience with Citalopram....Honestly if its working stick with it!


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## servadei

"My main issue is very very severe existential terror. I don't understand how existence can exist. This supposed reality, that there is a universe randomly, the Big Bang theory, the existence of human life, consciousness, birth, death, etc. all just seems so strange and far fetched that I no longer really believe it.

Perhaps there was a time when I believed these were all just symptoms of a disorder, and that life and people around me did really exist but I don't feel that way anymore."

I'm having this all the time.  But I see you're getting better so that gave me a little hope.


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## Guest

Oh my goodness..

Yes, I think this way all the time...every second of every day...I started to believe everything was fake myself...I mean reality is so...strange...how is any of this possible

We're on a planet...a large blue ball floating in space...How is that possible?

I know what you mean by watching your hands as I type this I feel the exact same way..

I'm kind of speechless right now...It's like you read my mind..


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## b1ack_math

Hi!

I feel really sorry for you experiencing this..but i feel strangely relieved, cause finally i found someone who understand what i feel! I mean this existential crisis i have too, no one understands that, that makes me feel that i'm all alone in this world..like i know something, that no one have any clue about. Like my mind somehow 'turned on' some sides of my brain that are closed normally for 'normal' people  You know..i wrote all about my experience through life and all thoughts about that in my blog. I can send a link if you want?

But anyway, knowing that you feel the same gives me hope that maybe i'm not that crazy? Maybe we are the chosen ones and we should use that 'feeling' to change the world somehow?


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## b1ack_math

Well here is the link to my post about my disorder http://blackmatth.blogspot.com/2015/09/what-depersonalizationderealization.html

I'm sorry if there are some mistakes.

I haven't found the cure yet  but maybe someone can relate and give some advice..


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## gmriefler

First, hey Jersey girl! I was born and raised in NJ (lived in Manahawkin). OK- this might sound bitchy but perhaps you are thinking about things WAY too much. I feel as if you have an upper hand on DPD since from what you have posted it seems to come and go. You had it for 6 months, and then it went away. I wish my DPD were like that...I've had it nonstop for 19 years. Do you think you are obsessed with philosophy and thinking about existence and related topics? If so, why don't you just stop thinking about it? If a thought comes to your mind, can't you just tell it to go 'fuck off' and forget about it? It's weird..some of us (like myself) feel empty-headed with little thoughts while you and others like you have racing thoughts.

Remember, they are just thoughts which are totally made up by our minds. You control them...they shouldn't control you.


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## Alex617

I've had this same issue, mine was sparked by a panic attack while under the influence of marijuana. I began doubting existence and my own thoughts, very scary time in my life and very difficult to explain to anyone who has never experienced these thoughts and feelings. While I knew my thoughts were irrational I couldn't prove them to myself at the start.

The good news is that I no longer am bothered by these thoughts, however it takes time to overcome them. They come in waves, but gradually you become better, I have not found that there is a simple rational solution that will suddenly cure you, but it takes a lot of patience, acceptance and work to get back to feeling like your old self.

My first step to improving was to accept that the entire process was fueled by anxiety, an anxious state of mind. I remember hearing a story about how someone asked the Buddha why he could not explain certain truths about reality, his response was that a peaceful mind does not have a need for such answers. I have found this to be very true.

The thing is, existential rumination opens up a pandoras box of question we can not answer, perhaps we simply aren't evolved enough to comprehend everything yet. Do you think a cat or a dog can induce an existential crisis? Very unlikely, yet they continue to live their lives. So, we ask questions we cannot answer, and our anxious minds come up with all sorts of scenarios which can not be proven or disproved. This becomes an issue when we obsess over it and feel the visceral fear of the unknown, a calm mind simply filters this, an anxious mind can not.

You might feel like you might cease to exist, or nothing is real, but nothing you can do will actually make that happen. You can try, but reality will remain the same. All you may manage to do is put yourself in to a state of panic, which will just make you feel more weird and detached, but you will still continue to exist. The other thing to realize is that there's no alternative to what we know as objective reality, do you know of anything else that can be other than what we know? Other than the big bang? Unlikely.

I used to lose sleep over questions like 'how can we just exist?' or 'how can something come from nothing?', but the fact is I'm here, I can not come up with an answer and at some point I will just have to accept that and refocus back on the only thing I know for sure, my life and everything that's in it. This becomes much easier once your anxiety and constant rumination quiets down, you will find moments of feeling completely normal, and then back to feeling unreal, and so forth until it's completely gone. I wish you good luck with this.


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## something6789

mayathebee said:


> My main issue is very very severe existential terror. I don't understand how existence can exist. This supposed reality, that there is a universe randomly, the Big Bang theory, the existence of human life, consciousness, birth, death, etc. all just seems so strange and far fetched that I no longer really believe it.
> 
> You are not alone. If you aren't real... Then I guess it doesn't matter


Who no longer believes in "objective" reality though? How can you possibly try to understand the immesurable complexity of reality? Perhaps the problem is that your frame of mind is logic based in something which just happens of it self. Logic is what's wrong then, you're too smart and too literal for your own good 

Look at it this way. What is a number? Without assigning a number something PHYSICAL to associate it with the number itself is just some symbol. You have reality...what you experience and you have "symbols" and these are descriptive and only have meaning when assigned meaning.... and thoughts that bounce around inside your brain. The thoughts, as well, are only real when you give them an emphasis. Let me ask you one more question, if you assume your "unreality"

If one day you discover your "unreality" will you go AH-HA and then vanish into oblivion???!!!

No!! You won't. Because unreality is essentially space or nothingness and for unreality to exist reality is an implicit necessity. Nothingness implies somethingness.

Hope you feel better soon 

As they say, the point of life is that you make the point. Do you really want the point of your life experience to be questioning your existence?


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## mayathebee

Ah, I never got any notifications that my post was still active. I'm sorry to say that I'm back on here reading this obly because I've had a relapse of sorts. Well to be honest the weird thoughts never really went away they just had less of a grasp on my attention. I was enjoying class, time with friends, writing, art. Was able to feel more like myself after a very long time of just suffering. Then today it got really really bad again. Like back to the fully believing time. I'm hoping that it doesn't stay as long and maybe it's just because I was at a bachelorette party and drank too much that it's taking over. My cbt therapist has given me great Tools that I will try to remember and use but I'm just back to thinking how can everything and other people actually exist and it makes no sense to me. Ooh god I just want this to go away!!!!!!


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## Chicane

It does seem to swing in roundabouts in the way you describe. You can have certain phases of clear thinking, enjoying activities and other people's company, and then take a nosedive for no apparent reason. My latest bout of symptoms (problems with concentration and short term memory) developed immediately after my brother came and visited me for a few days. We were having an awesome time hanging out, then he left and a day or two later I crashed. It sucks, but I wish you all the best in terms of a speedy recovery from this recent relapse.


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## hennessy

You got over this? I got the same but not that severe. Still it sucks and I know what you mean.


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## foggypark

There is no such thing as an objective reality, anyway


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