# ...



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## brett88 (Sep 21, 2005)

I am in the same boat as you Poonanny, I also have nearly all of the symptoms of HPPD yet I also have never taken a hallucinogen. The only drug I've ever taken is marijuana but from what ive heard its rarely classified as a hallucinogen (and if it is, its listed as "mild" at best), and does can cause HPPD. Only difference between you and I is I dont have anxiety with my HPPD...just bitter frustration.

Well at least now I know Im not alone here and I hope someone can give us insight into whether or not HPPD can be caused without prior use of a hallucinogen.


----------



## Manic D (Jun 29, 2005)

Wow that's weird. I have HPPD and DP/DR but both were brought on initially by use of hallucinogens (I didn't use much, but it doesn't take much). What do you see? I have a lot of floaters in my vision but the real problem are the "little spinny floaters". Like, When I look at the sky during the day I see all these little swirling dots (like floaters or tracers). In fact I have them all the time but I only really notice them in bright light on a light surface. The rest of the time they just make thing look a little "static-y" and I can ignore them. Occasionally do see tracers but I recognize them as being sort of brightened versions of the little spinny things. You guys see those? I've determined that the motion of these little spinning particles/floaters/what have you are what causes things to appear to be moving when they're not. Like a patterned carpet for example, or the drapes.


----------



## brett88 (Sep 21, 2005)

Manic D said:


> Wow that's weird. I have HPPD and DP/DR but both were brought on initially by use of hallucinogens (I didn't use much, but it doesn't take much). What do you see? I have a lot of floaters in my vision but the real problem are the "little spinny floaters". Like, When I look at the sky during the day I see all these little swirling dots (like floaters or tracers). In fact I have them all the time but I only really notice them in bright light on a light surface. The rest of the time they just make thing look a little "static-y" and I can ignore them. Occasionally do see tracers but I recognize them as being sort of brightened versions of the little spinny things. You guys see those? I've determined that the motion of these little spinning particles/floaters/what have you are what causes things to appear to be moving when they're not. Like a patterned carpet for example, or the drapes.


I also see the swirling floaters. I rarely see them at night, but i see them often during the day - especially when looking at light colored walls or the sky. Patterned carpets and pictures and posters on walls also are the worst. They too often appear to be slightly moving when they are not. This seems to be worse under flourescent lighting, which means Im basically f*cked in school. Luckely I only have one year left. 
Anyway, things often look smaller than they are and vice-versa, and i often get after images as well. Reading can also be difficult, and it is very, very hard to concentrate to say the least.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

nah you guys dont have hppd, just because you see floaters and tracers doesn't mean it's hppd. Hppd people have real hallucinations like they'll see the sky as purple instead of blue, or they will see like street signs coming straight at them when they are driving. Or they will see things like cockroaches crawling all over the wall. You guys jus need to chill out, if you had hppd you would definitly know.


----------



## brett88 (Sep 21, 2005)

j_utah said:


> nah you guys dont have hppd, just because you see floaters and tracers doesn't mean it's hppd. Hppd people have real hallucinations like they'll see the sky as purple instead of blue, or they will see like street signs coming straight at them when they are driving. Or they will see things like cockroaches crawling all over the wall. You guys jus need to chill out, if you had hppd you would definitly know.


For what its worth, I do see street signs as if theyre coming straight at me when im driving.

http://www.hppdonline.com

under the symptoms list, i match up with all but one of them. j_utah, do you have HPPD?


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## agentcooper (Mar 10, 2005)

you can't have hppd if you haven't taken a hallucinogen, period.

the DSM IV says: "The essential feature of Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (Flashbacks) is the transient recurrence of disturbances in perception that are reminiscent of those experienced during one or more *earlier Hallucinogen Intoxications*."

don't freak yourself out about it...you have dp/dr (as if that isn't enough!).


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

> PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:53 am Post subject:
> you can't have hppd if you haven't taken a hallucinogen, period.
> 
> the DSM IV says: "The essential feature of Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (Flashbacks) is the transient recurrence of disturbances in perception that are reminiscent of those experienced during one or more earlier Hallucinogen Intoxications."


 PERIOD

Yes i thik Coop is absolutely right.There are some other things that might disturb your vision..slightly.Hypertension etc :wink: .I think floaters could be sign of some other physical malfunctions


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

I believe I have some symptoms of HPPD, however I never took a strong hallucinagen. But for the record MARIJUANA is considered a MILD hallucinagen, So if you have smoked it and it triggered your DP/DR theres a chance thats the reason why you have HPPD symptoms. And don't try to tell me its not because 1. You can hallucinate if you smoke potent enough marijuana or if its laced and 2. I used to post at HPPDonline and they agreed with me.


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

its considered MILD cuz only small percenta of ppl accualy halluciante on cannabis.so if you didnt u shouldnt be worried..i gues


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

> And don't try to tell me its not because 1. You can hallucinate if you smoke potent enough marijuana or if its laced and 2. I used to post at HPPDonline and they agreed with me.


 Yep i always say that you sholud know what ur smoking..homegrown weed = 5 thousand years of proven effective natural med for many diseases


----------



## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Nodid can answer this best, but the way I understand it, by strict definition, you have to have taken a hallucinogen to have true hppd. Pot is really not included in this. I am unclear what the current hallucinogens are, but lsd, mushrooms, mescaline etc. were the culprits over the years. I have read posts at hppdonline of folks using extacy, or have entertained that their weed was laced with something (lsd cannot be smoked though) and claim to have HPPD. HPPD stands for "Hallucinogen Persisting Persceptual Disorder". It by definition is purely visual. The research done on it has kept to these defintions. There is some discussion going on by some folks anyway that the dsm description should be better defined.

A problem comes in because many of the visuals of dr and some dp share some hppd symptoms. Who knows, maybe some true hppd people have true dr/dp symptoms, many do actually. Maybe this fine line causes confusion.

Your symptoms Poonanny sure sound like good ol' derealization to me, at least how I experienced/experience them. I did hallucinogens and understand what hppd would be if I had it. I thought for years I had "flashbacks" for at the time that is what the med community viewed them as. When I discovered HPPDONLINE I could not understand how so many of my visuals were similiar but yet I did not have HPPD according to definition. I argued long about this, wanting the defintion to include my experience. . It was when I discovered this site, and compared to it previous journals I had read that I realized dr/dp can have a very pronounced visual element, including some static, text blurring, enhanced colors, foggines, and even slight halos. What we dr/dp people do not see are geometric patterns, walls breathing in a big way, intensive after images and the like. Anybody can see any of these things if taught to, and many dr/dp people may see them in slight variations, but it does not compare to how HPPD people see them. They truly are visually tripping.

I think when closer attention is paid to drug induced diosrders in the future they will discover a fine line sometimes between the disorders. Myself, I feel like I have a touch of hppd/dr/dp/feels like acid disorder. But for the most part I relate real well to folks on this board, including the visual aspect many (not all) describe.

Anyway, this how I understand it.
jft


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

http://www.google.com <----> right temporal lobe or PLS


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Poo, I am not smart enough to answer "where does the dr comes from". My surmisal is that it still is in theory mode, and alot of folks have good ideas but nothing to put in gold. Some say anxiety, some say sensory overload, some say defnese mechanism, some say temporal lobe, some say drug induced, and others say alot of other things. Maybe they (docs) are really all saying the same thing for they may all be linked. If they knew where it came from, you would think it would be more treatable for more of us. I mean, e.g. if it is pure anxiety then why do not anxiety meds or reduction techniques wipe it out (at least for me)? Why do not things like exposure, habituation, flooding and imagery not reduce the visuals when in a place like a mall, but yet true agoraphobics will experience dramatic results with their symptoms with these techniques?

All I know is that I sure wish this vision thing would up and leave. It is so strange that my vision can be so normal and then so quickly go to hell without any seeming psychological triggers. When my vision is worst is when I am very symptomatic with other dr/dp stuff, so it sure seems strongly linked to both. Again a good example is any trip to the mall. I am not fearful of malls or of people. I may be in a very good mood and am looking forward to going. 
But upon entering and seeing the floursesent lights flashing I go to lala land. dr/dp. Funhouse mirrors flashing stuff. It all starts with the vision going. Vision is primary, then the rest follows. I swear this is the sequence for me. And reading. Same thing, vision goes first, triggers by lighting.
jft


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## Manic D (Jun 29, 2005)

HPPD doesn't neccessarily mean you hallucinate things as serious as "cockroaches climbing up the wall" like someone said earlier in this thread. HPPD causes visual disturbances, not actual hallucinations.


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

the only hallucinogen iv'e taken is salvia divinorum about 3 times, but it was actually a good experience and unlike LSD it only lasts for like 20 minutes. I get floaters rarely, i get that peripherall waviness and sometimes afterimages. I have had 2 real like hallucinations in the past, 1 was 2 kids in a school were waiting for their parents and they had no heads and no feet but their heads popped back in like 30 seconds, the other was a demon like thing in a trenchcoat jumped out and hid behind a tree. I know it was just my mind playing tricks on me and i related them to the substance.


----------



## Welshlad (Jul 11, 2005)

I'm not to sure when people say that pot isn't a hallucogen. I am one of those people unlucky enough to have 'tripped' on pot, couldn't have been laced because all of my m8s were fine. It wasn't a hallucination as such though, it was more like I was seeing in frames and might have been just down to a panic attack when really stoned. BUT I also fit some of the HPPD symptoms. I do think that there is a very strong link between HPPD and DP. My symptoms would be considered mild by HPPD standards though and so it would be silly to say I had HPPD. Don't know what relevance this has, but what the hell.


----------



## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Good website description Poonanny. That was interesting how they discussed trails as well as snow. Of course what they had to mention is that little is known about it all.

Welsh, I have smoked weed that had me hallucinate as well. I am not sure why the distinction is made in hppd cause. Even when the government classifies drugs it puts weed on a different level than with hallucinogens if I remember right. Maybe it is similiar to the beer and whiskey arguement, for beer is not seen as true alcohol for some.. Maybe it has not been documented where weed has caused hppd. Weed sure as heck causes dr/dp while stoned though, did for me anyway. I wish NODID would enlighten us here.. He has all the answers.
jft


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

Welshlad said:


> I'm not to sure when people say that pot isn't a hallucogen. I am one of those people unlucky enough to have 'tripped' on pot, couldn't have been laced because all of my m8s were fine. It wasn't a hallucination as such though, it was more like I was seeing in frames and might have been just down to a panic attack when really stoned. BUT I also fit some of the HPPD symptoms. I do think that there is a very strong link between HPPD and DP. My symptoms would be considered mild by HPPD standards though and so it would be silly to say I had HPPD. Don't know what relevance this has, but what the hell.


weed is a MILD hallucinagen


----------



## Guest (Dec 23, 2005)

@ Poonany its called PTLS and means Possible Temporal Lobe Symptoms http://www.pni.org/neuropsychiatry/seizures/ptls.html


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## Guest (Dec 24, 2005)

Decrease in lobe activity also counts for PTLS


----------



## Guest_ (Sep 17, 2005)

.


----------



## Guest (Dec 24, 2005)

good :lol:


----------

