# Question for the men (don't read if you're easily offended)



## boohoo

Just thought I'd carry on the theme.

A brief introduction. It's always been an ambition of mine to go travelling (unfortunately I can't do this at the moment, but maybe in the future). One of the many things that appeals to me about travelling is that I could be as promiscuous as I like and then return home with little risk of my past catching up with me - unless I get diseased, of course. You see, I'd like to get married one day and I'm aware that men don't marry girls with a seedy past. Double standards, but I know how things are.

So, here's my question: A woman's past number of sexual partners - how many is too many?


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## Guest

It's not so much how many partners per se but how many one night stands/'easy lays', that sort of thing.

P.S Tickets to England are very cheap I hear...

:lol:


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## terri*

Dear BooHoo,

I simply must send you a copy of "A Promiscuous Southern Woman's Guide to Never tell Everything You Know".

Of course, I need to get busy and start writing it in time for your travels.

8)



Interesting post. Hope the men can be honest about it.


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## Martinelv

I'll be honest. Or at least I'll try.

It doesn't matter how politically correct, in touch with our feminine sides or how well we are in tune with cultural norms, most men will view women who have had a lot of sexual partners as, well, a bit lacking in moral fibre. Is that fair? No, it's not. Double standards, as you say.

Then again - men also might view a woman who has had a lot of experience as desirable because, simply, a lot of other men have found her desirable. I doubt there are that many men who would find a women desirable because of her staunch ideologies regarding sex. It's not exactly going to 'turn them on', if you see what I mean. We might admire their principles and publically applaud them for it, but in the end, when it comes down to it, a red light would go off in our heads saying; "The Frigid Ice Queen Cometh."

In answer to your question, you can't put a 'figure' on how many is too many. In reality, as long as we have got our mucky hands on you, we don't give a damn. I know I don't. If I like her and she is faithful to me, then I like her. End of story. Doesn't make any difference how many other men she's slept with.


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## sleepingbeauty

med induced mania is my official excuse. honestly. even my doctors say so. i cant even count the amount of freaks i slept with in that brief 3 months. and it wasnt a pleasure thing for me. it was all about power. i felt like the incredible hulk like nothing could touch me. and at the end i was homeless and prostituting to feed me and my dog. but most already know that story.

yes promiscuity can be fun. but if you do decide to go that route, be you male or female, make sure you chose your partners wisely. and im not just talking about stds. you want to be sure that once you do fall in the sack with that person that they are definately someone physical wise you can see doing it with, because once it happens there is no going back. plus make sure you are in a safe situation. having to fight for your life sucks. i should know. and the only reason i am alive right now is because i was manic and not afraid to kick a$$ when a$$ was begging to be kicked.

i know it takes all the fun out of it, but safety must always come first. and honestly... who gives a flying fart what a guy thinks about you? and if he does hold those kinds of standard, especially if he doesnt follow them himself, would you really want him in your life??


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## Guest

For pity's sake, go have fun, then prune back the number when asked!


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## Axel19

For me, girls who have had lots of boyfriends is almost as annoying as girls who have lots of one night stands. I just don't understand how people can fall in love that easily. Or perhaps they don't really fall in love, which is even worse.


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## MrMortgage

Like someone said earlier, the one nightstand thing to me says youre easy and I personally would want a girl that is not easy....the girl everyone wants but could not take it farther then first base type of girl.

Dont get me wrong, I get tempted to sleep with the first girl that rubs up on me, last night for example was a late night, and uh....lets just say I turned a girl down cause I felt it was too soon to get sexual with her.

Anyway, one night stands, serious realtionships, for me the magic numbers are 3-5 is acceptable.

I'm young so maybe when I'm 30 it will turn into 7-10 partners are acceptable but uh...for the most part, I'm the type of guy that gets the girls that are hard to get, the one that all the guys want and just cant get, I'm the one that gets the girl.

I'm not good looking, I'm average, it has to be the way I talk to girls, it must be different then how other guys talk. Anyway, sorry I rambled on.

THE ANSWER IS YES IT DOES MATTER IF YOURE A WHORE LOL!


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## MrMortgage

Axel19 said:


> For me, girls who have had lots of boyfriends is almost as annoying as girls who have lots of one night stands. I just don't understand how people can fall in love that easily. Or perhaps they don't really fall in love, which is even worse.


NAILED IT MAN!!! WELL PUT!


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## Dreamer

Man is this a loaded question. I think as one gets older the numbers have to change a tad, LOL. For me, sex isn't going to work if I don't have SOME connection with the guy... certainly more than a one night stand -- but I see how a one night stand can happen -- to anyone. I couldn't handle it personally, and I'm not sure why. Sleeping and being close and comforting the other person, yes, not sex.

I believe in serial monogamy, certainly. Ideally if I were "mentally normal", I would have married early, had lots of babies and hoped I'd have had a long marriage, good sex, a loving husband/companion forever until I croaked.

But my life hasn't worked out that way.

I believe in biology and instinct ... I'm not saying this is the rule, I'm saying this is the foundation of things... obviously men are meant to be more promiscuous.... sow your seeds and all that, and are hence going to take advantage of their mating situations. In the pure "survival" sense -- spread your genes around. Men aren't choosy, women are moreso, they have a lot to invest in a pregancy, etc.

What's sad, is eliminating the instinctual part as we are modern day human beings -- both women and men, and there is a double standard, but you'd think that men who have been promiscuous would understand a woman's promiscuity when/if he chooses to settle down.



Martin said:


> It doesn't matter how politically correct, in touch with our feminine sides or how well we are in tune with cultural norms, most men will view women who have had a lot of sexual partners as, well, a bit lacking in moral fibre. Is that fair? No, it's not. Double standards, as you say.


I'd say this is the unfortunate truth, based on who we are, as complex animals, and there's not much to be done about it, so women have to lie?



littlecrocodile said:


> For pity's sake, go have fun, then prune back the number when asked!


My only comment to a young woman is ... be careful and all that stuff. Now, being the age where I could be a mother to most of you :shock: (I can't believe it, but it's true), my hair would stand on end to hear the question from my own daughter if I had one. But I'd feel equally uncomfortable if I had a son who was promiscuous.

Life is an adventure. I would say, if it weren't for this infernal DP/DR/anxiety/depression whatever the Hell is wrong with me, I would have had a LOT more sex, and I think it would have been loving sex though.

Women are different from men. No doubt about it.
Sigh and so it goes.
Ramblings of a tired mind.

L,
D


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## Guest

dreamer, I agree that promiscuity is a bad idea on many levels. However, boohoo's question was, how promiscuous could she be without disenchanting her future partner(s)? The answer is that men do not have tolerance for promiscuity. There's no such thing as a little promiscuous or a lot promiscuous in men's eyes. I think men's bar is somewhere around 4. If a woman has slept with four or more men, she is well into slut territory in men's eyes, would be my guess.

There is a double standard, of course. Many here including myself view Martin as a stud for his various conquests, but were I to relate my joust last night with a male prosititute and my plans for getting laid this evening, I doubt I would be held in very high regard for that. sigh, the injustice.

seriously though, it always surprises me how people are willing to have fly by night sexual encounters-- would you be willing to get a blood transfusion from someone you just met in a bar? It's all bodily fluids, and condoms don't contain every fluid that is present in flagrante delicto.


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## Dreamer

littlecrocodile said:


> dreamer, I agree that promiscuity is a bad idea on many levels. However, boohoo's question was, how promiscuous could she be without disenchanting her future partner(s)? The answer is that men do not have tolerance for promiscuity. There's no such thing as a little promiscuous or a lot promiscuous in men's eyes. I think men's bar is somewhere around 4. If a woman has slept with four or more men, she is well into slut territory in men's eyes, would be my guess.
> 
> There is a double standard, of course. *Many here including myself view Martin as a stud for his various conquests,* but were I to relate my joust last night with a male prosititute and my plans for getting laid this evening, I doubt I would be held in very high regard for that. sigh, the injustice.
> 
> *seriously though, it always surprises me how people are willing to have fly by night sexual encounters-- would you be willing to get a blood transfusion from someone you just met in a bar? It's all bodily fluids, and condoms don't contain every fluid that is present in flagrante delicto.*


Ah, you said it all better than I. Agreed, and I have to laugh at my attraction to that Martin rat 8) yes, for his managing to be a "babe magnet." I realized that in myself a while back -- I am attracted to that, and yet at the same time, I can't comprehend it, I don't think I could do it as your final comment summarizes so well.... "fluid ... present in flagrante delicto." LOLOLOL

Men, women, ACH, we're so damned different.
And sometimes I say Vive la Differerence, and other times I'd like to smack all ya' dudes (well no not all of you). There are a lot of decent guys out there. I know a few.

But yes this does tick me off, and I understand


littlecrocodile said:


> There's no such thing as a little promiscuous or a lot promiscuous in men's eyes. I think men's bar is somewhere around 4. If a woman has slept with four or more men, she is well into slut territory in men's eyes, would be my guess.


*BooHoo, I think that's your answer.

Sex is wonderful when it is with the right person. That's all I can say.
Yup, sigh.
D*


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## Dreamer

And making certain that the Bells at Notre Dame are still silent, Martin, I guess this means the wedding is off, LOL. Forgive me.

Sigh. :? 
Life is truly complicated.


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## Brainsilence02

We call people or conditions "hot" refering to sex. High "temperature" means a person with tention to have more than a number of relationships which is a (subjective) standard that the society (which is almost a depressing mechanism in favour of practical issues from past centuries and cultural preventions such as puritanism) accepts as "normal". Low "temperature" means the oposite, less tention to have sex.

_Sex is natural, puratism is a preversion._

Each person has it's own "temperature". It is not good or bad, is just _is_. When you get married --no, let me correct that-- when you make a family (decide to have children, that's the crusial landmark of a relationship) you must find a man with the same "temperature" as yours or else you will both be unhappy.

This gives me a place to step and make the question: how many relationships (or one-night stands) would you like to have? Would you mind if your mate had the same? What if he had more? And what about less?

I wouldn't mind if my girl had as many sexual mates as she wanted no matter if they were more, less or the same number with me, as long as she doesn't mind that I (hopefully, "will have") had as many as I had. However, since she had many partners, then she changes relationships quickly. Is this what I want? A "quick" relationship? Or she just haven't found who she wants? But in any case, I will not tolerate having a parallel relationship.

People (men and women) think today that men are more sexual than women. It is not so. It's just that men might (repeat might) think sex beafore other things involved in a relationship. In my opinion it _only_ a social leftover.

Due to social "standards" (put a lot negetive meaning to the word 'standards'), women believe that "all that (some) men want is sex". Wrong. The difference is that usually (repeat, usually) it's easier for men to seperate love from sex. When they have only sex with a woman, it's because they prefer to keep their emotions with someone else. Or they are too afraid of her not respond on their feelings (and it's wrong not to try).

Men are more tender than women, more emotional. Look at older ages, at the age of 60 and 70. I haven't seen a man "throughing away" his wife off the house because he doesn't care anymore. But I have seen many women do that. Different society may be, I don't know what's happening outside this country.

And I think that a relationship can start right away with sex. Why not? But it cannot stay there. It never does. Want an example? Check *Une liaison pornographique* (keep in mind that this is an example, not a proof/argument). Some people say they need to have a good meeting with someone in order to have sex with, I say that it depends on the (emotional) moment and the people. Also, how fast can you meet a person depends on how open she/he is and how fast can you locate and comprehend elements on her/him.

...

It is possible that this is not what you actually want (taking as example SleepingBeauty's post). Maybe you feel repressed, sometimes is comes from society or family (personal experience about repressed and sex).



Martinelv said:


> Then again - men also might view a woman who has had a lot of experience as desirable because, simply, a lot of other men have found her desirable.


Single standard for that one. A friend wears a wedding ring. He noticed an amazing 40% increase on successful flits. And that, as a fact is so *LAME!*  People think that just because a person has been choosen by someone else, he/she has something worthy. Wrong. Depends on the compromises that person is willing to make in his/her relationships. "Rest assured, don't examine", a universal fact for human species. Could it be a coping mechanism?



Martinelv said:


> our mucky hands on you


A (subconscious?) hint that men are calumniating/defame/corrupting women?



MrMortgage said:


> Like someone said earlier, the one nightstand thing to me says youre easy and I personally would want a girl that is not easy....


Easy. So? You mean non-selective?



MrMortgage said:


> the girl everyone wants but could not take it farther then first base type of girl.


You mean that then you have managed a feat?



MrMortgage said:


> Dont get me wrong, I get tempted to sleep with the first girl that rubs up on me, last night for example was a late night, and uh....lets just say I turned a girl down cause I felt it was too soon to get sexual with her.


When you know it's not soon?



MrMortgage said:


> Anyway, one night stands, serious realtionships, for me the magic numbers are 3-5 is acceptable.


Why 3-5 and not 2-4 or 4-6?



> THE ANSWER IS YES IT DOES MATTER IF YOURE A WHORE LOL!


I am hearing this a lot. Wrong. Whore is a woman who is having sex for money (or another benefit/trade-in). She never spoke about money.

That's puritanism. Sorry, this is what I think.

And a little addition. Sometimes we want loving sex, sometimes we want "rought" sex, sometimes fluctuations between those two. It's all normal.


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## Homeskooled

We have the weirdest discussions on That's Life nowadays...

Boohoo, there are a couple of answers to this question - which do you want? The way things are or the way they should be? You shouldnt lie to a prospective mate - if they dont like you for you, then they arent the right fit, and you'll never be as happy as you could be.

But what, you ask, does a man want to hear? The truth is that there is a double standard - listen to littlecrocodile. Even she finds the fact that Martin gets women an attraction. And she rightly guesses with her women's intuition that most men would not like to hear these things from her. Likewise, us men know that women find a Don Juan reputation appealing. The two sexes are built this way, and we know these things at least subconsciously. Should it be this way? No. But things always seek the lowest level if we dont hold ourselves to higher standards. I'm not seeking sex until marriage - romance, yes, sex, no. It isnt from a lack of opportunity, its just because I see the mistakes of others. And to be quite honest, I think sleeping with someone is a great way to cloud your thinking and marry the wrong mate. I've seen that with friends. And this also means that you should not carry judgement in your heart against someone - if your fiance says she has slept with 10 men,and its in the past, then its in the past. It doesnt make her better or worse than you. For my part, I'd like to marry another virgin, because we'd both be sharing something special, but if I fall in love with someone who isnt, then it wasnt in the cards for me. You cant legislate love. Whoever I'm meant to be with, I'm meant to be with. Love is already complicated to start with, and when we wield it like a toddler with a toy instead of like responsible adults, it loses any of the simplicity and beauty it once had.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## peacedove

"And a little addition. Sometimes we want loving sex, sometimes we want "rought" sex, sometimes fluctuations between those two. It's all normal."

And sometimes we don't want sex at all, but get piss ass drunk to try and forget this DP for awhile and then wake up in some freak's bed with him breathing down your neck, crotch pressed against your ass, and his hands on your breasts.

Not so normal.

I wish I didn't have a vagina.


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## Brainsilence02

peacedove said:


> And sometimes we don't want sex at all


Yes. Sometimes we want just emotions. But I know that you mean detraction (focus elsewhere).



peacedove said:


> but get piss ass drunk to try and forget this DP for awhile and then wake up in some freak's bed with him breathing down your neck, crotch pressed against your ass, and his hands on your breasts


I am sorry to hear that  I don't think that sex would be a good detraction (focus elsewhere) from DP.



peacedove said:


> I wish I didn't have a vagina.


It would be something like that with a penis. The pressure that the instict of reproduction causes is the same. Just the procedure differs.



Homeskooled said:


> I think sleeping with someone is a great way to cloud your thinking and marry the wrong mate. I've seen that with friends.


Why? I think precisely the opposite. I agree that sex influenses judgement but I wouldn't call that influense as "clouding". If you don't sleep with her, how you know that you fit in that topic/issue? It's like marrying with a woman you haven't talked. There are couples who take divorce because they just don't fit there. Sex is important. It's 33% of the relationship: communication, emotions, sex.



Homeskooled said:


> if your fiance says she has slept with 10 men,and its in the past, then its in the past. It doesnt make her better or worse than you.


Exactly. Past is behind us. Present matters.



Homeskooled said:


> For my part, I'd like to marry another virgin, because we'd both be sharing something special


I want the same thing, because if we (me and the girl/woman) have the same experience, it will be better. If I was more experienced, then I would like someone more experienced. Always that the same level with me. I like that. A mate, in all aspects. Same smart with me, same age with me, same experience with me.



Homeskooled said:


> it loses any of the simplicity and beauty it once had.


When?


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## sleepingbeauty

peacedove said:


> I wish I didn't have a vagina.


if i had a dollar for everytime i say that. :roll: omg i wish i had a shlong so bad you dont even know. and if i had one... i would be sooooooooo gay!! 

brainsilence, great post. i am totally feeling you on the temperature thing and its actually making me seriously depressed. i got personal sh!t that needs resolving fast.

people who hold themselves to so called 'high standards" need to really evaluate the whys and what fors. i think they will find it mearly makes them pretentious snobs. i mean, who the f#ck gave you the right to judge people like that? what makes you so precious? trust me, it matters not how many meaty holes you pounded your nail into as long as no one is negatively effected, including yourself. simply pounding nails doesnt make you any more or less than a person who prefers pounding their own nail, if you know what i mean.


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## Homeskooled

Brainsilence, 
I dont think you should marry on the basis of sex. Like all things, its a skill. You learn it, and you learn how to be good for your partner. Its a bodily function that we are wired to know how to perform. From there, its just a learning curve. I love a bumper sticker I once saw - Sex is like Pizza. When its good, its *REALLY* good. When its bad, its still *GOOD*. Because you learn this skill as you use it, you cant really "test drive the car" to find an accurate appraisal. It takes committment and understanding, two ingredients a marriage needs anyways.

Homeskooled

PS- Brainsilence, even if English isnt your first language, your grasp of it and of the ideas in your posts are very well-developed. It amazes me. How long have you been writing in English, if I may ask?


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## sleepingbeauty

homie, you know i love you to death, but you are totally and completely WRONG!!!

seriously, youve never actually had sex, so how do you know that?? and youve never been married!! how do you know so much about marriage if youve never done it? trust me... if you are not compatable in the sac it aint going to work in the marriage. you are not giving sex nearly enough credit. it counts for ALOT. its the reason why most marriages fail. infidelity. if they aint getting it at home then they will get it somewhere else. check the statistics and you will find that im right. now im not going to bag on your beliefs, but God (big G) cannot help in this arena. i was a Christian for most of my childhood and grew up with the exact same value system. the church i went to was the best one in these parts, values up the ying yang... and my dad nailed just about every woman in the congregation. the pastor was a fantastic man and a good christian, and he told my mom that no matter what my dad does, its her duty to stay with the bastard.. AS A GOOD CHRISTIAN! (because he was doing it too no less) i mean, what the hell dude? is that any way to live your life? my dad needed more than what my mom could give, and he was going to get it no matter how many black spots it put on his soul. my mom couldnt satisfy him because she hates sex. yes drinking was the main problem in their marriage, but sex is right up there.

sex matters. if you dont think so try having it sometime. if there aint no fire, and by fire i mean chemistry, it will feel like you are making it with a dead walrus. (chemistry is not LEARNED or happens over time, its something that is there or it isnt... PERIOD.)


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## rainboteers

Homeskooled said:


> When its bad, its still *GOOD*.


I disagree. I cant speak for anyone else but for me when its bad its BAD.


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## Homeskooled

Yes, but Sleeping, dont you think this should be discussed WWWAAAYY before one is married? I mean, if you dont like sex? You dont have to have it to know that you're asexual. There's nothing wrong with seperating, ie divorcing, and you can get an annulment for drinking and refusal to consumate. But the bigger point is that you should WORK out that kind of problem within marriage or before. You make the committment, you work on it. Sex, no sex, alcoholism. If both partners dont, then yes, you seperate. But I'm not saying how things are - I'm saying how they should be. I dont think your parents needed to sleep together before they were married to figure this stuff out. Heck, if they did, it probably clouded the issues more. This is why you plan ahead, speak about touchy issues with your future spouse, and weigh things carefully before committing to them. I dont need to have sex to see these things - these are precisely the things you have trouble seeing when you _are_ sleeping with them. And yes, I just happen to like the Pizza Bumper sticker - I have no scientific data to back that up, Ms. Prove-it-to-me-Homeskooled-Beauty. Geez Louize, cant take off my lab-coat around here for a minute....

Peace
Homeskooled


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## sleepingbeauty

HOMIE... check your inbox. :wink:

no lab coats please. the pink tutu is enough to make me want to kick you in your cherry flavored gumdrops! bah!!! :x

as for this last post of yours.. i agree! working it out, getting to know each other before the sac is important IF you want to have a relationship with said person. but nailing for the sake of nailing doesnt make you a bad person, it just makes you horny. anyway thats besides the point i want to make which is.. you are right. working it out before sex is a good thing.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand... it doesnt take having actual sex to know if you have chemistry. that is very very VERY true.


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## Homeskooled

:wink: Checked, Sleepy.

Much peace

Homeskooled


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## Dreamer

A few comments, and I don't know who said everything and I'm too lazy to quote:

1. I have had very close relationships with men, built on being friends, working together, then "realizing there was more", and this led to intimacy (after MONTHS of interaction w/out any physical contact). I don't "sleep around" and neither did the guy in one instance, but we indeed found we weren't sexually compatible... despite what we talked about before hand. It was "not right" for either of us. And it was good we found out. It helped us find out our differences before we made any committment.

2. I don't think one sex or the other is more tender, more needy of love, respect, or more needy of loving sex and playful sex or sometimes no sex at all. My old, raggedy mantra -- we are all unique.

3. But there ARE differences between men and women, and I say, IMHO, they boil down not to societal influence as much as biological imperative. Whoever said that women dump men more than men dump women... well here's the one problem with that. I think both can abandon a marriage, or cheat if/when it gets stale, it's something that needs hard work, and many aren't willing to do that....

... but simply considering the biological imperative. A 75 year old man can still make babies. A woman over the age of 40 is really past her prime in terms of that -- and yet (I KNOW) many women in their 40s feel sexually confident for the first time in their lives.

EDIT: said this wrong,
1. It is so much easier for an *older man* to marry a younger woman. And that makes common sense. A man can have 3 generations of kids. Men were made to ... procreate. That's just how it is. IMHO. And as I see it. Hear about it. Read about it.

2. How many *young men* who want children, or more children, would want an older woman? And as both sexes get older it is more and more difficult for either to find a mate. And yes, women marry for money/protection/a father for their children. There are many reasons for marriage... and love isn't always part of the picture... and these are marriages that last a lifetime.

I know Hollywood has the whole May/December thing going w/Demi and Susan Sarandon, etc.... but that isn't reality.

On the other hand, the Donald Trump marriages, and what Aaron Spelling is 80 and how many generations of kids does he have... well, let's see, they always goes for someone younger... and he wants more babies! And yes, they have money. Call me sexist, but in this sense it works out.

And I know men who have abandoned marriages 2 and 3 times... these are peers of mine and I'm NOT YET 47 ... few weeks to go 8)

I also know of women who have abandoned their marriages, and the cruelty over the battle for the children is the most painful.

I think it's true, you can't understand marriage until you've been married, you can't understand sex/making love until you've done it -- and it takes practice, yes.

*And I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't be virgins when they get married ... that works as well, no judgement. It depends on the couple, on COMMUNICATION.*

Also, to be honest, I'm glad I'm a woman. I wouldn't want to be a man... well yes I would, for about a year, to see what it's like. It would be an invaluable experience. I imagine it would be darned fun. I think I would "take advantage" of being a man and perhaps be more sexually active... but not promiscuous. Men also don't have to worry about getting pregnant.

But example. I have a dear friend who married when she was 23, a man who was 38, so he is 15 years older than she is. They are both Christian and Church is a critical part of their lives. She had two boyfriends before they married -- one in high school, one in college. I can't say how many girlfriends he had, but he wasn't a virgin, but he is a decent guy, a wonderful man.

Well, they've been through everything w/two kids, sick and dying parents, in-law nightmares, the "joys" of home ownership. Illness, etc., etc. And they don't agree on everything. Every relationship has some compromise in it... absolutely.

Well, after 12 years of marriage my friend confided in me that there was a deep attraction she had for a man at work, and he for her... and he was married with a family... their circumstances were identical. They struggled for a year over whether or not to consummate real passion. And I asked her, "Is he 'better' than your husband? If there were no children involved would you want to be with this new man?"

She said, "He is not better ... that isn't the right word, but we actually have far more in common, a far more intense sexual connection than I ever imagined. If I had no children, if he had none, I think we would be together. He feels the same."

I thought she had "the perfect marriage"... in many ways she does, and yet there is no such thing.

They however both determined they didn't want to destroy two families, even with an affair. And that doesn't make either one of them Saints. It was a battle for both of them. There was no affair, and my friend is still happily married, as is her potential affair. What's difficult is they cross paths regularly in different buildings at work. But they are friends now.

There are bumps in the road, there are changes in people as the years go on, things don't always work out.

I guess there are no cut and dried answers here except, be careful of the pain of promiscuity ... I can't see it as being positive in the long run for a lot of reasons ... but it is an individual choice. And there are clear differences between men and women, there just are, I know it, and the challenge is to work around that.

Relationships take work.
But there is love, there is play, there is responsibility, there are so many things involved.

What was so painful in my "salad days", in college, early years in my career when I wanted to find a long-term relationship, I was sick. The guys that I cared about and cared about me ... well it came down to I couldn't keep up with them.

And so it goes. And sometimes I feel unbearably lonely. But who knows, I guess my impending 47 isn't that bad. We'll see what happens.

We can't make generalizations again... I guess that's my (usual) long-winded point here.

Best,
D :?

PS, LOL
*But you know, everytime I read an addition to this thread, I KNOW there is a double standard. There always was. I think there always will be. I'm also not a feminist -- I think motherhood is the most underrated profession in the world, and sadly in the lower classes don't men father innumerable children and abandon them? And not just in this country. The disenfranchised again. These young men have so little to lose, so little at stake. And they feel proud.

And my God in so many countries women are treated like pure dirt. They are "unclean" when they have their periods. They must cover themselves up (in many countries) so as to NOT TEMPT MEN by their charms. Why can't these dudes control themselves.

We've all heard of removal of the clitoris in some African nations. The woman should feel no pleasure. She is the property of her husband. And he may have sex with anything else that walks. AIDS as a result is decimating areas of that continent.

It suddenly occurred to me, there's more than just a Western experience here. But remember where all the evil started.... Eve. The temptress destroyed us all. Woman is the undoing of Man. Beware the Siren song!

And come to think of it, how many secret love children do women have, LOL. I heard Janet Jackson has one. It sure makes sense that men would have more ... and why do they? Then CAN!

I don't know, I don't hate men for this at all. It just makes me feel ... well it's damned unfair as its a double standard. Yup.
End of rambling garbage. Time for bed *

Anyone got a cure for depression? I went off an antidepressant and I'm back where I was before I went on it -- no cold turkey either. To Hell with this. I don't think it's a coincidence.


----------



## Guest

Homeskooled said:


> But what, you ask, does a man want to hear? The truth is that there is a double standard - listen to littlecrocodile. Even she finds the fact that Martin gets women an attraction.


Let the record show that this is not the norm for me; Martin is the one exception to my weakness for inexperienced, frustrated, soulful men.


----------



## Dreamer

littlecrocodile said:


> Homeskooled said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what, you ask, does a man want to hear? The truth is that there is a double standard - listen to littlecrocodile. Even she finds the fact that Martin gets women an attraction.
> 
> 
> 
> Let the record show that this is not the norm for me; Martin is the one exception to my weakness for inexperienced, frustrated, soulful men.
Click to expand...

You know, I was going to say the same thing as littlecroc. Martin is an exception for me. I have a "rescue complex" for some of the men on this Board, and it's not a good thing to have. It's the DP in common. Every intimate man in my life has *not* had a ton of partners. I actually don't like that myself, but again, it's my unique situation, my unique needs.

Also the internet is a weird place. One can say and imagine things one couldn't in real life. I also have a thing in general about Brits, well Brits, Scotsmen, Irishmen, Welsh. I love the accents, the humor.

Also, just got a call from a male friend and we discussed this briefly and got to thinking about recent famous murders in the news, LOL. Whenever a husband is murdered, the prime suspect is the wife and vice versa. And I don't know my statistics on that one, but those cases are darned easy for the cops to solve.

Sigh.

Cheers to all ya'll across the pond. I've had attraction for you guys since Andy's Board. And SleepingBeauty .... she snagged a fine one damn her! A fine Brit!

D


----------



## peacedove

Brainsilence02 said:


> I am sorry to hear that I don't think that sex would be a good detraction (focus elsewhere) from DP.


That's not what I meant. I drink to distract myself from my DP. I rarely enjoy sex. I don't use sex as a distraction. I don't even remember it most of the time cuz I tend to blackout when I'm wasted. And that's really the only time I have sex... when I'm wasted.



Brainsilence02 said:


> It would be something like that with a penis. The pressure that the instict of reproduction causes is the same. Just the procedure differs.


I wish I didn't have a vagina cuz then people couldn't f#ck me when I'm barely conscious. If I had a penis I would be the one doing the f#cking... unless gay men do that too... f#cking unconscious people that is. Whatever... I wish I had a chastity belt or some sh#t. One for my ass too so I can protect that. Or maybe I should just go to AA and stop drinking... don't know if that's possible though.

Sorry this is very off topic.

To contribute to the topic... I also think there is a double standard. And most guys I've talked to prefer either virgins or close to it... but really they'd f#ck anything.


----------



## peacedove

Oh but marriage-wise.... I'm not a man of course, but from what I've heard men don't want to marry women who have slept around.


----------



## rainboteers

peacedove said:


> I wish I didn't have a vagina cuz then people couldn't f#ck me when I'm barely conscious. If I had a penis I would be the one doing the f#cking... unless gay men do that too... f#cking unconscious people that is. Whatever... I wish I had a chastity belt or some sh#t.


peace,
Reading your post made my stomach sink with pain. I want to say that I am really sorry for anything that you have been through. People can be so terrible.  You should be able to drink as much as you please and still feel and be safe. Unfortunately that is not the way it is. If you are going to drink until you pass out, please have someone with you to watch out for you. I hope something like that NEVER happens to you again. It will always be beyond my understanding why guys would want to sleep with someone that doesnt want too.


----------



## person3

four?

four?

someone set the bar at f*ing four?

well god damn no wonder i can't find me a date at the baptist student union.

i say...go by your own conscience on things. if you have to have the right number so you meet a guy that doesn't hate your past, you're probably looking at the wrong a**hole anyway 

and beware of which guy is telling you this advice...is he a happily married guy himself, or some 20 year old that is just saying a number...

wait...i keep forgetting this was a post geared towards guys..why am i giving advice...

but really, my 2 cents is that there are a LOT of people who have done a LOT of REALLY messed up things and so you might not want to worry too much about having a sordid past from a few one night stands


----------



## Dreamer

LOL person 3 .... oh my the way you say things, LOLOL.

Now I have this song in my head....

"Now there's a rose in a fisted glove,
And the eagle flies with the dove,
And if you can't be with the one you love,
Love the one you're with."

And peacedove, ditto to rainbow's sentiments.
Please don't get hurt like that. Very painful to hear.
D


----------



## sleepingbeauty

yea peacedove i hear you. :x luckily when i was in similar situations i still had the capacity to defend myself. im also a big strong girl physically, i pinned my dad for 15 minutes when i was only 12. :lol:



> i say...go by your own conscience on things. if you have to have the right number so you meet a guy that doesn't hate your past, you're probably looking at the wrong a**hole anyway


indeed.



> and beware of which guy is telling you this advice...is he a happily married guy himself, or some 20 year old that is just saying a number...


thats what made me get my flame thrower out earlier in this post. 



> but really, my 2 cents is that there are a LOT of people who have done a LOT of REALLY messed up things and so you might not want to worry too much about having a sordid past from a few one night stands


exactly.

see, you can get drunk and go home with some anonymous dude, wake up and feel really crap about it, but as long as it wasnt hurting anyone and done safely, it wont change you. you will still be you. you will still wake up the next day and the day after that. you wont grow a third eye and your vagina wont stretch out (this is a myth btw, unless youve been humping telephone poles). there will be no change in your appearance whatsoever. and your past is just that.. its PAST. it should stay there and you shouldnt let it effect your future. if your guy wants to know about it you dont have to lie, you can just tell him to MHOB, or you can tell him the truth and if he cant hack it then he just aint worth it.


----------



## Brainsilence02

A very, very long post.



sleepingbeauty said:


> people who hold themselves to so called 'high standards" need to really evaluate the whys and what fors. i think they will find it mearly makes them pretentious snobs.


I think that this is one of the reasons some people have had 2-3 relationships, and some other 20. People who had 20 relationships know better what they want (my opinion, partially judging from myself).



sleeingbeauty said:


> i mean, who the f#ck gave you the right to judge people like that? what makes you so precious?


Egoism.



sleepingbeauty said:


> trust me, it matters not how many meaty holes you pounded your nail into as long as no one is negatively effected, including yourself. simply pounding nails doesnt make you any more or less than a person who prefers pounding their own nail, if you know what i mean.


You mean masturbation right? Well, everyone who doesn't have a mate needs to do that, men and women. People (especially men) boast because they had sex. Let's stand for a while in the generic phrase "I have had real live sex in my life". They practically boast for beeing social enough with women. Because that's what it takes to make a relationship (or a one-night-stand). Unfortunatelly I have a problem in getting social with a woman (and generally); call it "maximum hesitation" and any declination in social-behavior means no relationship for "you". So, no relationship for me.

The phrase "I have managed to make sex with <her>" is a supposed feat because that woman is beautiful or "hard to get". And the very well known "I have had sex with 20... (or 100, or 3461) women" is simply a "body count", a score. This does not necessarily means that he sees women as numbers (doesn't have sex with them just to grow the count), but at that moment he does.

These facts (the sad ones) are not the deterministic reality around relationships, but they are what's happening today. Of course it depends on the country too, but generally it's the same on most "west" societies.

--------------------



Homeskooled said:


> I dont think you should marry on the basis of sex.


Neither do I. Not entirely at the basis of sex, but _also_ at the basis of sex.



Homeskooled said:


> Like all things, its a skill. You learn it, and you learn how to be good for your partner. Its a bodily function that we are wired to know how to perform. From there, its just a learning curve.


We can partly adjust, yes, but not entirely. Sex (and kissing) is a little resume of who you are and parts of who you are appaers only in sex, it's how you behave when performing the unity with your mate. Theoritically, what is visible with sex can be seen with dialogue (and living together with that person) but it would take a very, very long time to achieve that, because it's a deeper expression and sometimes not even the person itself cannot understand these things about him/herself. We are still animals, complex but animals. Some of our emotions and personality needs to be expressed with acts, and sex is (in all cases, even in one-night-stand) an expression of who we are.

Homeskooled, you spoke of sex clouding one's judgement. I think that my judgement will be clouded if _not_ have sex with the girl I am interested in.



Homeskooled said:


> I love a bumper sticker I once saw - Sex is like Pizza. When its good, its REALLY good. When its bad, its still GOOD.


I cannot entirely agree with this, but it does succeed to denote the significance of sex.



Homeskooled said:


> It takes committment and understanding, two ingredients a marriage needs anyways.


Understanding yes. Commitment arises from the choice: "I need nothing more" or one should depart from the relationship. We shouldn't "try to make it work no matter what", why torture ourselves for a lifetime, while our true mate awaits in another place?



Homeskooled said:


> PS- Brainsilence, even if English isnt your first language, your grasp of it and of the ideas in your posts are very well-developed. It amazes me. How long have you been writing in English, if I may ask?


Homeskooled,

I have a small problem. When I suspect that I get any sort of a credit, my narcisistic thoughts barge in. I know that I have had "I don't speak English well" in my signature for some time, but it seems it was an insecurity issue, along with the potential that I wanted to give to myselft: to disembarrass my words in case I say something wrong.

I started to learn English in 10-12 (can't remember well), got the lower diploma at 16. I am now 23.

English was a way to disassociate when I was kid. I was thinking in English. I now understand that I was trying (and still do) to admit to myself some emotions that I couldn't in my native language. Using the computer a lot, helped. Trying to write (any kind of text) helps. Too many movies, readying software manuals, a lot of internet-reading (including this website), using a good dictionary, using unedited phrases (check the Architect dialogue in The Matrix Reloaded), and... that would be all. Oh yes, and I also write my posts in a text-editor and read them a few times beafore I post. Takes a loooong time to write some posts. I really hate I sound a bit "official".

--------------------



Homeskooled said:


> This is why you plan ahead, speak about touchy issues with your future spouse, and weigh things carefully before committing to them. I dont need to have sex to see these things - these are precisely the things you have trouble seeing when you are sleeping with them.


People have defenses, they can't help it. Not everything can be seen, it's inside the human nature, only sex shows these things.

--------------------

A few comments, and I don't know who said everything and I'm too lazy to quote:



Dreamer said:


> 2. I don't think one sex or the other is more tender, more needy of love, respect, or more needy of loving sex and playful sex or sometimes no sex at all. My old, raggedy mantra -- we are all unique.


It was me who said that. It's a personal opinion based on my experience and judgement. Also keep in mind that we live in different societies.



Dreamer said:


> Whoever said that women dump men more than men dump women... well here's the one problem with that. I think both can abandon a marriage, or cheat if/when it gets stale, it's something that needs hard work, and many aren't willing to do that....


It was me again  In fact it was the same issue. Erm.. I was refering to the age of 60 and 70, or a sufficiently old enough age to send away emotions and sex. It happens to some people (or should I way to most people?) and they remain together as company, friends. Accepting that the house is owned by one of them, and accepting that the other has no other place to stay... the women that "send away" their husbands at this age, are more than the men who "send away" their women. Women are more cruel.

Don't think the perfect couple, think the usual couple, the mass.

Not all women.

Also, utilizing again my experience and judgement, most of my male friends have deeper emotions than their mates do.



Dreamer said:


> ... but simply considering the biological imperative. A 75 year old man can still make babies.


Yes. Unless there are prohibing health issues.



Dreamer said:


> A woman over the age of 40 is really past her prime in terms of that


Not all. I am making a rough estimation, but 65% remains sexually active.



Dreamer said:


> many women in their 40s feel sexually confident for the first time in their lives


Hmm... This needs a different topic. I will deliberately avoid any comment.



Dreamer said:


> 1. It is so much easier for an older man to marry a younger woman. And that makes common sense. A man can have 3 generations of kids. Men were made to ... procreate. That's just how it is. IMHO. And as I see it. Hear about it. Read about it.


Both, men and women were made to procreate. I think that the mechanism that hosts the child is delicate and thus it requires certain youth to function properly. So, nature "trims" the sex factor in women, slowly from the age of 40. I think that if they get hormones, they can remain sexually active.



Dreamer said:


> 2. How many young men who want children, or more children, would want an older woman?


Appart from the fact of beauty, it's what I said at the above line.



Dreamer said:


> And yes, women marry for money/protection/a father for their children.


Not all.



Dreamer said:


> There are many reasons for marriage... and love isn't always part of the picture...


It should be.



Dreamer said:


> and these are marriages that last a lifetime


It requires two sane people to do that.



Dreamer said:


> I know Hollywood has the whole May/December thing going w/Demi and Susan Sarandon, etc.... but that isn't reality.


A young man with an older woman? No, it can happen. But it has a "date of expiration", I mean a date shorter than the rest. And hapiness is now. Today we have the capacity to spend our lived with more than one mate.

The fantasy "I am going to spend my life with that person" is, in most cases, an utopia generated by enthousiasm. Where love starts, logic ends.



Dreamer said:


> On the other hand, the Donald Trump marriages, and what Aaron Spelling is 80 and how many generations of kids does he have... well, let's see, they always goes for someone younger... and he wants more babies! And yes, they have money. Call me sexist, but in this sense it works out.


Why sexist? Why is it bad to have many generations of kids?



Dreamer said:


> And I know men who have abandoned marriages 2 and 3 times...


What are they supposed to do, if it doesn't work out? If they have children, then it was a mistake, they should have been more careful.



Dreamer said:


> I think it's true, you can't understand marriage until you've been married


You can live with her, at the same house. It's the same thing. You can also get advices by older people. You manage to have a 80% of the family image.

And I'm not saying people can't or shouldn't be virgins when they get married ... that works as well, no judgement. It depends on the couple, on COMMUNICATION.



Dreamer said:


> Also, to be honest, I'm glad I'm a woman. I wouldn't want to be a man... well yes I would, for about a year, to see what it's like. It would be an invaluable experience. I imagine it would be darned fun. I think I would "take advantage" of being a man and perhaps be more sexually active... but not promiscuous. Men also don't have to worry about getting pregnant.


You can get to know all our secrets eh?  No, there are no secrets. And you don't need to become a man to understand what's happening. Just try to approach the issue of relationships without the woman preoccupation (everybody is preocupied).

You are right abour pregnancy, but most men wouldn't want to spread children here and there. No, forget "most", I am judging entirely from myself.



Dreamer said:


> But example. I have a dear friend who married when she was 23, a man who was 38, so he is 15 years older than she is. They are both Christian and Church is a critical part of their lives. She had two boyfriends before they married -- one in high school, one in college. I can't say how many girlfriends he had, but he wasn't a virgin, but he is a decent guy, a wonderful man.


That's why one needs to have many relationships (involving sex) in order to know which mate is the proper.



Dreamer said:


> She said, "He is not better ... that isn't the right word, but we actually have far more in common, a far more intense sexual connection than I ever imagined. If I had no children, if he had none, I think we would be together. He feels the same."


Yes, you mean they need to match in the sex issue too? I agree. However, sometimes it's a point of "a new refreshing experience", where you need just someone else. I hope that there are things to keep sex and romance fresh.

But you know, everytime I read an addition to this thread, I KNOW there is a double standard. There always was. I think there always will be. I'm also not a feminist -- I think motherhood is the most underrated profession in the world, and sadly in the lower classes don't men father innumerable children and abandon them? And not just in this country. The disenfranchised again. These young men have so little to lose, so little at stake. And they feel proud.



Dreamer said:


> And my God in so many countries women are treated like pure dirt. They are "unclean" when they have their periods. They must cover themselves up (in many countries) so as to NOT TEMPT MEN by their charms. Why can't these dudes control themselves.


It's a point of religion actually. You are refering to arabic religions, right? Well, in older times women were treated like properties, a cultural element that evolved along with religion. I saw an interesting documentary. It said that if women had easy access to food, the human race would have been much more pieceful.



Dreamer said:


> We've all heard of removal of the clitoris in some African nations. The woman should feel no pleasure. She is the property of her husband. And he may have sex with anything else that walks. AIDS as a result is decimating areas of that continent.


Culture and religion again.



Dreamer said:


> It suddenly occurred to me, there's more than just a Western experience here. But remember where all the evil started.... Eve. The temptress destroyed us all. Woman is the undoing of Man. Beware the Siren song!


That religion tale is to make the women seem guilty and thus, justify, in a way, the way women were treated that time (and still do, even in Western societies).



Dreamer said:


> And come to think of it, how many secret love children do women have, LOL. I heard Janet Jackson has one. It sure makes sense that men would have more ... and why do they? Then CAN!


What is a love children?

--------------------



Dreamer said:


> Every intimate man in my life has not had a ton of partners.


Men who have a ton of partners can be intimate, if they have the maturity not to place their feelings on all of those partners.

--------------------



peacedove said:


> That's not what I meant. I drink to distract myself from my DP. I rarely enjoy sex. I don't use sex as a distraction. I don't even remember it most of the time cuz I tend to blackout when I'm wasted. And that's really the only time I have sex... when I'm wasted.


Then be careful how, when, and where you drink. You might be alrady alcoholic and "distraction from DP" could be an excuse. My opinion remains, neither alcohol is a good distraction from DP.

I wish I could help with this, I really do, but the psychologist will have better advice than me.



peacedove said:


> Or maybe I should just go to AA and stop drinking... don't know if that's possible though.


Yes, *GO!*. Your problem is drinking, not sex.


----------



## boohoo

Martinelv, you're forgetting that most men will bed anything whether they find them desirable or not.
Mr Mortgage. Four. Are you serious?
Homeskooled, why did you use 10 partners as an example? Is 10 classed as being slutty?
Dreamer. Thanks. I love what you're saying.

I'm tired now.

And I've given up on the hope of ever finding myself a nice respectable husband.


----------



## Brainsilence02

Every compulsive thought is tiresome. Why not searching for the elements that you want in a person?

I have 3 rules, it's common logic:

1. Given enough time, everything will get revealed.
2. Never stey ahead more than one step. Make one step ahead and wait for the other person to make that one too. Also, leave them to lead too, don't be a leader all the time.
3. Never stop judging (not critisising, judging). In other words don't "sleep".

I didn't knew what else to say. If I am totally off-topic, just say so.


----------



## terri*

> Accepting that the house is owned by one of them, and accepting that the other has no other place to stay... the women that "send away" their husbands at this age, are more than the men who "send away" their women. Women are more cruel.


Hi Brainsilence,

I think perhaps you did not mean the statement "Women are cruel." to sound so definitive, as in the absolute truth. Did you?

Also, this "sending away" of husbands thought of yours, does that occur frequently in Greece? I see so many older women caring for their mean-ass, grouchy, old fart husbands until the husbands die. Then the women vow to never marry again.

This is getting off of the thread, but it can be picked up again. I just really wanted to know the answers to those two questions when you get time.

Thanks,
terri


----------



## Guest

Dreamer said:


> You know, I was going to say the same thing as littlecroc. Martin is an exception for me. I have a "rescue complex" for some of the men on this Board, and it's not a good thing to have.


...sighing still... there's nothing like a madman in his creepy, unheated castle, is there?










ESPECIALLY with that James Bond accent.



terri* said:


> Also, this "sending away" of husbands thought of yours, does that occur frequently in Greece? I see so many older women caring for their mean-ass, grouchy, old fart husbands until the husbands die. Then the women vow to never marry again.


Oh terri, I have no comment, but you just gave me a good cackle.


----------



## rainboteers

Boohoo,
When someone falls in love with you they are not going to care about how many people you have slept with. We all have these ideas and standards... but the truth is when you start caring for someone most of that goes out the window. You realize that regardless of their past it makes them who they are today...


----------



## Dreamer

terri* said:


> Accepting that the house is owned by one of them, and accepting that the other has no other place to stay... the women that "send away" their husbands at this age, are more than the men who "send away" their women. Women are more cruel.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Brainsilence,
> 
> I think perhaps you did not mean the statement "Women are cruel." to sound so definitive, as in the absolute truth. Did you?
> 
> Also, this "sending away" of husbands thought of yours, does that occur frequently in Greece? I see so many older women caring for their mean-ass, grouchy, old fart husbands until the husbands die. Then the women vow to never marry again.
> 
> This is getting off of the thread, but it can be picked up again. I just really wanted to know the answers to those two questions when you get time.
> 
> Thanks,
> terri
Click to expand...

LOL, I also agree with this. And in a loving marriage, or where one has taken a vow "'til death do us part" this abandonment doesn't occur. This is the part of getting older that is difficult for both men and women, but if you check out nursing homes -- my mother spent 10 years in one dying of Alzheimer's --very slowly -- there were @40 people on her locked unit. About 37 were women.

Women seem to live longer than men, and are left alone.

This isn't to say that I didn't see many dedicated spouses there in this Nursing Home. Men who came everyday to talk to a wife who was no longer capable of speaking. Many spouses couldn't deal with that. Many families. They want to go on with their lives. My mother and I had a horrible relationship our whole lives, and then I had to visit her when she couldn't help attacking me, not recognizing me, and then finally, lying in bed babbling. All over the course of 10 years. My parents were divorced, my father deceased. She wouldn't have wanted HIM visiting.

Things are NOT as simple as they seem.

Also, I still say biology supercedes cultural aspects of the differences between men and women. Back to anthropology. *IMHO culture springs from instinct/human nature/the need for the race to survive. Men and women serve a very specific purpose in this process -- they complement each other. There is a reason why men go out and kill for food, and why women stay home and tend the children. It is a perfectly sensible division of labor that exists in Nature.*

I also wanted to clarify re: my friend. You said she should have waited to find the right person! My goodness, she married someone she loved very much at the age of 23. He was 38 at the time. The "affair that almost happened" was 12 years into the marriage. She didn't know she would run into that new man! My goodness. And they didn't have just sexual attraction in common, they had intellectual things, values, many more things... this was what my friend was referring to. She felt a stronger connection to this man -- not just sexually!

She has now passed her 23rd anniversary now, with the man she married. She does love her husband, and she hasn't abandoned him, and I can't see her doing so.

And re: men being able to have children as older men. It's true. Men in general, yes, if they hare healthy, have sex and reproduce into their later years. Viagra has helped with that now in particular. And sadly enough, AIDS and STDs are becoming more prevalent in the elder community!

Women have more and more difficulty becoming pregnant after 40. That doesn't mean they lose a desire for intimacy/sex/love, they simply have more trouble conceiving than a young woman, and that is also a turn off for men. I know it.

Women in their 60s who are widowed/divorced and dating have had sex with men who were promiscuous at 70!!! and didn't care that they passed on STDs to the women. "Why wear a condom when they aren't going to get pregnant? said the women, and they found themselves infected with AIDs from "elderly men" who were still sowing their oats, LOL.

Also, my father died at the age of 84. He was never meant to marry. He was a perpetual bachelor. A shy loner. When I went through his things after his death, I found condoms in his suitcase -- the one he took on cruises. He was still capable of being sexual with women, but used condoms! I said, "Good for you, Dad!" After my parents separated when I was 6 or so, my mother never had another man in her life. She was married before. On the other hand my mother is the exception to every sane rule in the book.

And I know couples who really aren't that interested in sex, or older couples who only want companionship, and their marriages last a very long time.

Again, marriages are UNIQUE. You start to figure this out as you get older. I've learned a lot over the years. About myself, about my friends, about being married. The only thing I miss is not being a parent, which was the result of my emotional problems and those of my husband. And I can't speak on that topic with any authority.

Life ain't easy. Relationships aren't easy. And love doesn't solve all problems!

It is an age old concept. Women are Mothers or Whores. The Mother Goddess or the Evil Temptress. The Virgin Mary or ... who is that woman ... Jezebel.... why can't I think of the name. That is a reflection of human nature. It didn't evolve out of the clear blue sky.

*And there are many stories of men who once their wives become pregnant, or become mothers, the husband does not feel sexually attracted anymore. He can't deal with "having sex with a mother." The couple I know who does't have sex... they have that thing going. But they've stayed together for .... 12 years now. It is how it goes. They don't want to be alone, they want companionship. And her husband wants to provide for his children. He loves the children. The wife was never that interested in sex. So they have that in common, and it works for them!*

D


----------



## Brainsilence02

*terri said:


> I think perhaps you did not mean the statement "Women are cruel." to sound so definitive, as in the absolute truth. Did you?


I appologize if it made you feel bad. Thank you for the chanse that you give me, to take back what I said, but I can't do that. It is my opinion.

I didn't ment "women are cruel", but "women are more cruel". And more affectless too. If a man goes with another woman, he returns home to his family. He sees sex outside the house like something passing. If a woman goes with another man, she starts to see her husband like substandard/subordinate. _Note: I am not endorsing sex outside the relationship._

I didn't set a percent because as I observe it tends to fluctuate. Apparently its the effect of a limited and non balanced statistical sample. But it is my general opinion that women are more cruel and more affectless than men. Not all women of course. Some more than others.

I accept it, like the existance of death. I will try to find a nice wife. I am lucky, I have a house to stay, so I am not in danger of that.

Absolute truth? Never. Personal estimation? Yes. I am just one person, which means limited statistical sample (I haven't met all women, only a few) along with any preoccupations.



*terri said:


> Also, this "sending away" of husbands thought of yours, does that occur frequently in Greece?


Yes, I can only talk about Greece, I haven't lived in another country. The women that "send away" their husbund are more than the men that "send away" their wives.



*terri said:


> I see so many older women caring for their mean-ass, grouchy, old fart husbands until the husbands die. Then the women vow to never marry again.


I have seen that too, but here, my observations say that there are more women than men doing that. Maybe religion is involved.



Dreamer said:


> [...] in a loving marriage, or where one has taken a vow "'til death do us part" this abandonment doesn't occur.


Feelings change in time.

Religion doesn't mean the same to everyone, and can bow in favour of desire. Religion sais "sex only to have children". Who lives this way?



Dreamer said:


> This is the part of getting older that is difficult for both men and women, but if you check out nursing homes -- my mother spent 10 years in one dying of Alzheimer's --very slowly -- there were @40 people on her locked unit. About 37 were women.
> 
> Women seem to live longer than men, and are left alone.
> 
> This isn't to say that I didn't see many dedicated spouses there in this Nursing Home. Men who came everyday to talk to a wife who was no longer capable of speaking. Many spouses couldn't deal with that. Many families. They want to go on with their lives. My mother and I had a horrible relationship our whole lives, and then I had to visit her when she couldn't help attacking me, not recognizing me, and then finally, lying in bed babbling. All over the course of 10 years. My parents were divorced, my father deceased. She wouldn't have wanted HIM visiting.
> 
> Things are NOT as simple as they seem.


You are sharing your life with us. Very unfortunate condition. My life is full of comfort, well, not full, but I have been much more lucky than you.

You said "left alone" and then you said "men that came everyday". Women are usually the ones taking care of house things, so instictly the can keep taking care of a big baby (that's what a person is with Alzheimer's). Men don't see it that way.



Dreamer said:


> Also, I still say biology supercedes cultural aspects of the differences between men and women.


It's a resultant of both.



Dreamer said:


> Back to anthropology. IMHO culture springs from instinct/human nature/the need for the race to survive. Men and women serve a very specific purpose in this process -- they complement each other. There is a reason why men go out and kill for food, and why women stay home and tend the children. It is a perfectly sensible division of labor that exists in Nature.


Does this offers the same prespective for the nursing house that I gave above?



Dreamer said:


> I also wanted to clarify re: my friend. You said she should have waited to find the right person! My goodness, she married someone she loved very much at the age of 23. He was 38 at the time. The "affair that almost happened" was 12 years into the marriage. She didn't know she would run into that new man! My goodness. And they didn't have just sexual attraction in common, they had intellectual things, values, many more things... this was what my friend was referring to. She felt a stronger connection to this man -- not just sexually!


My opinion: if she had 10 more relationships and had met the same man she might not have chosen him.



Dreamer said:


> Women in their 60s who are widowed/divorced and dating have had sex with men who were promiscuous at 70!!! and didn't care that they passed on STDs to the women. "Why wear a condom when they aren't going to get pregnant? said the women, and they found themselves infected with AIDs from "elderly men" who were still sowing their oats, LOL.


You mean that STDs transmit even with the use of a condom? It was unwariness for the woman then.



Dreamer said:


> And there are many stories of men who once their wives become pregnant, or become mothers, the husband does not feel sexually attracted anymore. He can't deal with "having sex with a mother."


Why? It must be a psychological problem. Could "Oedipus" be involved?



Dreamer said:


> And her husband wants to provide for his children. He loves the children. The wife was never that interested in sex. So they have that in common, and it works for them!


Maybe he is using the "don't want sex with a mother" as an excuse because his wife isn't interested in sex.

Even with this psychological problem (which the practical effect is not wanting to have sex with his wife) he still wants to stay a family-man. If the case was vice versa (the husband not interested in sex), would the woman want to remain a family-woman? Can are not in possition to know that, it's a rhetorical question.


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## enngirl5

> Boohoo,
> When someone falls in love with you they are not going to care about how many people you have slept with. We all have these ideas and standards... but the truth is when you start caring for someone most of that goes out the window. You realize that regardless of their past it makes them who they are today...


Exactly what I was gonna post.



> well god damn no wonder i can't find me a date at the baptist student union.


LMAO!!


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## terri*

Milan...no way you made me feel bad. I think you reiterated your point where there is no doubt how you feel.

BooHoo...I agree with what everyone here has offered for support and advice.

Person3... :lol:

Dreamer...Crazy Old Beans UNITE ! LOL.


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## boohoo

Thanks for replying, everyone. If I wasn't so half-baked I'd be able to write something constructive in reply, but I won't even attempt to because I always manage to kill a conversation somehow!
Thanks all, for being non-judgmental. I've somehow managed to make myself sound like I have a lot of experience "under my belt" - oh, I'm so funny! But it's not like that. Just thought it might be fun one day to be liberated of all the restrictions in our society about how we're supposed to behave etc.
I promised myself I wouldn't start on about women's rights, so I won't... even though it's tempting.
Kissy x


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## Axel19

> Boohoo,
> When someone falls in love with you they are not going to care about how many people you have slept with. We all have these ideas and standards... but the truth is when you start caring for someone most of that goes out the window. You realize that regardless of their past it makes them who they are today...


On the other hand one can end up falling in love with just about anyone given the right circumstances. Experiments have been conducted on chickens, where they ended up falling for pieces of wood because they vaguely resembled a member of the opposite sex. Love isn't always the best indicator of long term relationship prosperity. I've loved girls I've slept with in one night stands. Generally when we fall in love, we love all aspects of the person we have affection for, which is a bad thing. All too often I've seen friends and relatives go downhill after falling in love with someone unsuitable (pardon the formal terminology). My brother for example, once a bastion of morality in our postmodern vacuum, has now fallen for the direst aspects of modern culture all because his new girlfriend likes Big Brother. Call me a cynical quibler, but these things do matter in the long run......so says the 21 year old porn addict. Actually just ignore me, I bore myself sometimes.


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## Milan

Terri* wrote:



> Milan...no way you made me feel bad. I think you reiterated your point where there is no doubt how you feel


Are ya talking to me? or was that meant for Brainsilence?

Just a quick comment:

Relationships are hard children are easy.

They love you unconditionally as you do them.

Your partner can be a handful.

End.


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## terri*

I meant it for Brainsilence. Oops. Sorry 

Wait till your children get a bit older...we'll talk again. :lol:

Partner's can be a handful and more! Agreed!

The End again.


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## rainboteers

Axel19 said:


> Generally when we fall in love, we love all aspects of the person we have affection for, which is a bad thing. All too often I've seen friends and relatives go downhill after falling in love with someone unsuitable


There is a difference between accepting flaws, and putting up with a person that is obviously bad for you. I have been in love before and I certainly didnt love ALL aspects of the person, I believe that is unhealthy. If you are with the right person for you, they won't bring you down. In fact they will usually end up bringing out some of your better qualities. I guess it all depends on what a person is looking for. It puzzles me how a person can stay with someone that brings them down and is not good to them. That has always been my cue to exit the relationship... even if I was still in love with them..


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## sleepingbeauty

thats just it rain, its pretty much impossible to understand. just like the whole sex thing. attraction is something that really cant be contained and analized. it has a life of its own. and it can make you do really stupid things. yes love and lust are different.. but are they? im starting to really wonder this myself. i tend to always fall for the one person that is totally wrong for me. by wrong i dont mean uncompatable, i mean toxic. but thats probably the thing that makes them toxic for you in the first place.. when they have your heart in the palm of their hand, that means that they are the only one that can really hurt you. and when they do.. its like an emotional death. you know.. i really need advice right now but i cant talk about it here.. so if someone is willing to pm me i would really appreciate it.


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## rainboteers

I really do understand what you mean by that... I dont mean to make it sound so simple because I know that it is not. My ex fiancee cheated on me and it letting go of him was the hardest thing I had done (until dp came along). I just had to say to myself the person that is right for me wouldnt hurt me like that and be done with it. I believe in second chance and giving someone the grace of being human and making big mistakes, but everyone has that line... and once you cross it there is no turning back. At least that is the way it is for me. It is very frightening when someone has your heart in the palm of their hands because it makes you so very vulnerable. It doesnt have to be a toxic situation though... just keep in mind how you deserve to be treated. I know its hard, when you love someone you would do anything to make things work. The trick is balancing that strong love for another and keeping the respect you have for yourself. At least that is what I have to do. Sounds like you are going through something and I hope it works out for you. I think some people underestimate how horribly painful a broken heart really is.


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## rainboteers

sleepingbeauty said:


> its like an emotional death.


It really is. I remember after going through it, waking up the next day, and being truly amazed that I was still breathing. I thought, this is so bad, I cant believe a person can live through it. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I am so glad that it ended. It was the best thing for me, though it was impossible to see at the time. You say love can make you do stupid things, but really it can't. Take some time, stop yourself from panicing over the possiblity of losing the person, and try to get some rational thoughts going about the situation. You will know what you need to do and noone can make you do anything stupid. You are still in control of who you are... though I know love can make you feel completely OUT of control. I hope this advice doesnt completely suck.. if it does sorry and just ignore me. :wink:


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## Brainsilence02

Milan said:


> Relationships are hard children are easy.


No, children are harder. You are responsible for their personality. My wife is already a personality.



sleepingbeauty said:


> love and lust are different.. but are they?


Love and lust sometimes behave as one thing and sometimes as two different things.



rainboteers said:


> I believe in second chance and giving someone the grace of being human and making big mistakes


He choose to cheat on you. When do you call a choice "a mistake"?



rainboteers said:


> but everyone has that line... and once you cross it there is no turning back


Yes. You need someone who will have the same weight about cheating as you do.



rainboteers said:


> You say love can make you do stupid things, but really it can't. Take some time, stop yourself from panicing over the possiblity of losing the person, and try to get some rational thoughts going about the situation.





rainboteers said:


> At least that is the way it is for me. It is very frightening when someone has your heart in the palm of their hands


You/me/one's placing it's "heart" on someone elses palm. You/me/one is the only responsible for his/her feelings. People don't have the ability to mind-control. Nature does. But, you can charge that person responsible for not beeing thoughtful enought. Not exactly a crime.



rinaboteers said:


> The trick is balancing that strong love for another and keeping the respect you have for yourself


I will alter it a bit: "be just". Treat them like you would like them to treat you. And don't tolerate been treated like you wouldn't treat them.



rainboteers said:


> sleepingbeauty said:
> 
> 
> 
> its like an emotional death.
> 
> 
> 
> It really is. I remember after going through it, waking up the next day, and being truly amazed that I was still breathing.
Click to expand...

Nature's way saying "I want you to be with this person. And I want you to have children. If you don't, your species will vanish". We are doing nothing more than fulfulling nature's cheques. And this realization is useful in such painful situations. Let's choose to remain on ground, love/sex/romance/lust/etc.. is not magic, it's instict, which is almost as good as magic 



rinaboteers said:


> You say love can make you do stupid things, but really it can't. Take some time, stop yourself from panicing over the possiblity of losing the person, and try to get some rational thoughts going about the situation.


Where love starts, logic ends. I agree with "taking some time...".


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## Martinelv

Now when you read the following post, keep in mind that I'm so depressed I see darkness is such things as the cracks in the sidewalk/pavement.

Thankyou (I think) for applauding me for my sexual conquests. That, however, is in the past. I shouldn't be proud about it (according to the wimmin), but I don't care. I am. Live with it. My reliance on my (moderate charm - considering I look like the Elephant mans dishy brother) is fading. Fading badly. It probably has something to do with my disintegrating personality.

However, and I'll ask for forgiveness when I'm in a better mood, so feel free to rant and curse, I won't moderate it, I am SICK and TIRED of intelligent (that includes ALL OF YOU on this board) women moaning and whining about how men USE you. Bollocks. YOU have the brains to say no. Women are better manipulators than men, so you should see us coming a mile off. So why all the fuss? Why all the teeth gnashing about how many sexual partners you've had? It' beyond me. Sure, there are some women (and men) with wit the size of a frog, but hey - life is like that. Besides, manipulation is part of the game - courting can be called manipulation. I've been manipulated into moving in with women so many times I could write a book on it. I even think I was manipulated into marriage, joint f******g bank accounts...the list goes on. Sex, so what? I know women are more sensitive to this issue, so, just say goddam no! Is that so hard? If someone charms you into bed by sucking your toes or taking you for a candle-lit dinner and you 'give in' to his sexual overtures, it's YOUR fault. I get so goddam angry when women get all soppy and weepy after they've slept with a man - crying on the phone to thier friends. Arse-holes !!!!! I am completely aware of the emotional entanglements that women experience following sex, don't get me wrong, I'm not a chauvanist pig, but, and I'll say it again - all you have to say is NO. And besides, women use their sexuality all the time to get men to do things they need doing but can't or are unable to do themselves. Don't deny it. You've all done it. So which of us is more manipulated?

What you ladies don't seem to realise is that, after the weeping and the peculiar emotional damage, you make us feel like rapists. You really do. We are consumed to guilt, even though the woman in question was more than willing to ride the carnal carousel with us. So who's manipulating who? Is this some kind of trick to make us commit to something neither us of really wants.

This is the 21st Century. Despite what I said in the reply to Boo-Hoo's post, nobody really cares except morons. Live with it. We have enough to worry about.

:evil:


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## sebastian

Amen to that.


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## Homeskooled

Part of me thinks I should moderate that post, but honestly, most of me agrees with large swaths of it. Women _are_ in a better position to say no. Guys shouldnt care about how many partners they've had...I think women use alot of emotional leverage on well-meaning guys, just to get their way. Either because they dont think about it (my last girlfriend was like that when she was angry), or because they truly dont care about your feelings. Its tough to please a woman. As their moods change, so do the things they want. Once you know a man, you _know _ him. That much remains constant. My girlfriend's moods were in constant hormonal upheaval. The problem is, its difficult for a woman to see them while they are happening. As men, we just have to be able to adjust to them as best we can.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Martinelv

Don't worry Homeskooled, I'll moderate it myself when the Witches of Eastwick arrive and explode in a fit of fury once they read our ravings.



> As men, we just have to be able to adjust to them as best we can.


Adjust? More like duck ! You wouldn't believe how much an orange in the gonads hurts.


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## rainboteers

Homeskooled said:


> My girlfriend's moods were in constant hormonal upheaval. The problem is, its difficult for a woman to see them while they are happening. As men, we just have to be able to adjust to them as best we can.


I will sympathize and partly agree with that. I am so extrememly sensitive most of the time, but sometimes I DO recognize it and realize that it is me that is the problem. Women can see sometimes see it when its happening but your right it can be difficult.

As for the rest of what you guys said WHOA I dont know what kind of women you go after but geez. One thing I do want to say is that as much as guys complain about women never liking the nice guys... the same goes for men. They seem to go for the b***ches, the ones that so clearly are after money or are selfish. I know guys must be able to see this, and they usually dont want the nice girls... you are not victims either. I see what you are saying but NONE of us are victims.. be it women or men.


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## rainboteers

and also women are constantly manipulated by men. I cant tell you how often I see the following situation happen. A man is sooo good to a women and she falls for him... suddenly after she has strong feelings he turns into the biggest ahole. Now she keeps thinking it is her that is the problem.. searching and trying to get back that nice guy she fell in love with. What she didnt and cant realize is that what she is looking for never existed... it was just a manipulation. Sounds simple but its seems impossible to see when you are in the situation. Fact is you cant box women and men in like that. We are all just people some more manipulative than others. It really goes both ways in my opinion.


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## Dreamer

Sigh, Martin, don't be upset. I will say, unfortunately, "All is fair in love and war."

As I've said 100 times here, I see the basis of who men and women are in BIOLOGY, in anthropology, in the survival instinct, in roles that are adaptive to survival of the species.

On those grounds no one is "to blame", we are who we are.

I've happened to find pretty decent men in my life. Don't think anyone has cheated on me as a matter of fact.

I simply see a double standard, and when I step back, I see that just "IS".

This does not justify abuse of either party by the other. But it happensall the time.

D :shock:


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## terri*

:evil: But Dreamer, Witch of the Midwest, how can you let such blanket statements as :



> Women are better manipulators than men,


 slide by ?

Just what rabbit hole did you pull that fact out of? :?

""and also women are constantly manipulated by men. I cant tell you how often I see the following situation happen. A man is sooo good to a women and she falls for him... suddenly after she has strong feelings he turns into the biggest ahole""

EXACTLY, RAINBOW ( you are too sweet to be a witch, but you are coming along rather nicely.  )

Silly, silly boys. Still hangin' round the playground kickin' at the dirt with your heads down, your hands stuffed in your pockets, scared of the girls.

Of course now we know what you were doing with your hands in your pockets all those times. 

With love,
The Good Witch of the East


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## enngirl5

> As for the rest of what you guys said WHOA I dont know what kind of women you go after but geez. One thing I do want to say is that as much as guys complain about women never liking the nice guys... the same goes for men. They seem to go for the b***ches, the ones that so clearly are after money or are selfish. I know guys must be able to see this, and they usually dont want the nice girls... you are not victims either. I see what you are saying but NONE of us are victims.. be it women or men.


And I'll give an Amen to that! This is how it is. There are manipulators in this world. And it doesn't make a f*ck's worth of difference what gender they are. These people are called bullshitters. They're like salespeople. They are selling themselves to you and once they have you, the game changes, and you're pretty much screwed.


----------



## Dreamer

terri* said:


> :evil: But Dreamer, Witch of the Midwest, how can you let such blanket statements as :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women are better manipulators than men,
> 
> 
> 
> slide by ?
> 
> Just what rabbit hole did you pull that fact out of? :?
> 
> ""and also women are constantly manipulated by men. I cant tell you how often I see the following situation happen. A man is sooo good to a women and she falls for him... suddenly after she has strong feelings he turns into the biggest ahole""
> 
> EXACTLY, RAINBOW ( you are too sweet to be a witch, but you are coming along rather nicely.  )
> 
> Silly, silly boys. Still hangin' round the playground kickin' at the dirt with your heads down, your hands stuffed in your pockets, scared of the girls.
> 
> Of course now we know what you were doing with your hands in your pockets all those times.
> 
> With love,
> The Good Witch of the East[/b]
Click to expand...

[/quote]

LOL terri, I didn't want to be labeled a Witch of Eastwick, which reminds me I never saw that film... was that Cher/Jack Nicholson?

I agree that is a nasty statement. It is possible to get into relationships over and over again where one's experience seems to reflect the norm. I tend to get into relationshps with men who are very much like my father. He was not a bad man, but had a lot of trouble showing love. I don't even know if he loved me.

The men I connect with are often like that, and aren't manipulative in the least.

I have plenty of women friends I could never call manipulative in relationships as well, they wouldn't be married as long as they have. I could say, when my friend's husband refused to put gravel in the trench in the back yard, she had it dumped in front of the garage so he couldn't go boating ... small canoe/motor boat in the garage. I guess she manipulated him into fixing the trench in the back yard so the kids and dog wouldn't drown in it, LOL.

I hate generalizations. You can't make generalizations, especially from one's own experience... UNIQUE experience... I can't say all men are passive and unloving. They're not.

However, I saw a bit on "Dr. Drew" the Sex Talk Dude on the Health Channel last night. There were young people talking of "hooking up" in bars. One night stands... no strings attached. The guys wanted sex, the girls were vague in what they wanted. They said, kissing, touching. There was a clear difference in the expectations of both sexes.

It just IS that way.

Not a witch. OIY. I didn't want to post ... I'm a coward. :roll:


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## enngirl5

The fact of the matter is, you have to choose relationships carefully. The older you get, the better you should be at it. You ever notice those people who jump from one bad relationship to another until they eventually just die. It's the rush, the passion and excitement of having a "bad boy" or "bad girl". It's like a drug, people are chasing the extreme ups but also have to deal with the extreme downs. Then other people find a nice, normal partner where they don't have to get dumped every month to be able to get off on them.


----------



## terri*

Oh Dreamer, I was just dragging you in to it for the game of it. 

Okay, so I agree...both sexes have people of questionable character traits. I truely believe this. So no more teasing out of me on the subject. When I am down on this part of the board one can expect most anything out of my mouth to be said in jest.

BUT, having had that moment of truth...

I would love to have a more indepth conversation about that Dr. Drew.
That man is HOT.

Signed,
Not a witch either, just your plain old variety COB


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## rainboteers

terri* said:


> EXACTLY, RAINBOW ( you are too sweet to be a witch, but you are coming along rather nicely.  )


 :lol: thanks.... i think :wink:


----------



## Dreamer

terri* said:


> I would love to have a more indepth conversation about that Dr. Drew.
> That man is HOT.


Man this thread is all consuming.

I say AMEN to Dr. Drew. OH MY STARS. :shock: And he would say some here are self-destructive. Some of the men and some of the women. And it doesn't have to do with age. It does in part. I think my generation had it a tad easier, I don't know. Much more peer pressure to do some scary stuff these days!

And indeed enngirl


engirl said:


> The fact of the matter is, you have to choose relationships carefully. The older you get, the better you should be at it. You ever notice those people who jump from one bad relationship to another until they eventually just die. It's the rush, the passion and excitement of having a "bad boy" or "bad girl". It's like a drug, people are chasing the extreme ups but also have to deal with the extreme downs.
> 
> Then other people find a nice, normal partner where they don't have to get dumped every month to be able to get off on them.


Yup, we have our own schtick. I don't go out and pick up men and never did. I also never dated men who picked up women. I was also the shy theatre geek who was "everybody's friend." I was the good girl that was invited to all the proms, but didn't have a serious, intimate boyfriend until I was 20. That's just me.... no judgements. Just me.

And I am Glinda, The Good Witch of the North. "Come out, come out wherever you are and meet the young lady who fell from a star..." I played her in Community Theatre. Ah, the good old days, LOL. :roll:

Ah, and if I'm not mistaken, "I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog too!" Dorothy and her friends were dogged by the Wicked Witch of the West, who was taking revenge on the death of her sister the Wicked Witch of the East. Glinda was from the North, not the Midwest. No mention was made of the Good Witch of the South, unless it was in the Frank Baum books.

Useless knowledge to ease my troubled mind.

"There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys,
It's only you and me and we just disagree."

Bless you terri, my felllow COB, LOLOLOL.

Man, sometimes I come on this Board to distract me from sneezing. Now sneezing season is over, and I have a pukey stomach. Certain I have the flu, getting a fever. I have stuff to DO! Nothing worse than a pukey stomach. DAMN. :evil:


----------



## peacedove

Martinelv said:


> What you ladies don't seem to realise is that, after the weeping and the peculiar emotional damage, you make us feel like rapists.


I'm assuming you're talking about me. Just so you all know I wasn't trying to imply that all men who have sex with drunk women are rapists. Sorry if it came off that way.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

not to stray too off topic.. but dr drew?? hmmmn.... :?










well maaaaaayyybe. he does sort of look like anderson cooper in a grey haired but still young looking sort of way. and i gotta admit anderson is a hottie.


----------



## Martinelv

> and also women are constantly manipulated by men


I'd like some specifics please. Apart from the obvious and frankly pathetic 'manipulation' of men at trying to get women into bed (and remember, for gods sake - you can still say NO), how exactly do we manipulate you more than you do us? I could write a book on how women manipulate men. It's almost second nature to you. And I'm not a female hater, quite the opposite, I think women are wonderful, clever, witty, but they are the arch-manipulators, because of the fact that they usually have us wrapped around their little fingers. And the more you protest about this, you more you admit your guilt.

Except for turgid experiences with men who are unashamed bastards, I speak for the majority of men who treat women with the respect they deserve. So don't give me the 'all men are manipulating bastards'. We don't even know where to start!! Women are very, very, very clever. And the worst ones are the ones that hide it well.

The Witches of Eastwick quote was a joke, but the way, but I knew my post would cause some fury. 

(And before you say it - this isn't because I'm bitter about my divorce. It would be a waste of breath)


----------



## rainboteers

..


----------



## terri*

Agreed...Anderson Cooper is quite the young hottie.

Thanks for the pics, SleepyB.

Dreamer honey, not to worry your pretty little head about where the witches came from. I was just using dp artistic license when spinning my little tale. (aka lying  )


----------



## Martinelv

> Martinelv, you're forgetting that most men will bed anything whether they find them desirable or not.


You know this for a fact do you? I sorry to disappoint you, but I fear you have been reading too many glossy magazines concerning the tumultuous exploits of the serial-shaggers. It's simply not true. As you get older and unless you find someone you are really into, sex is just a pointless tangle of sweaty limbs. I've lost interest completely. Incredibly, I have a woman who is all over me and, I know you won't believe this, but 90% of the time I wish she would just roll over and go to sleep.

So many angry women. It annoys me. It's ALWAYS our fault, obviously.

Uninfromed sweeping generalisations are my forte. Don't step on my toes!!


----------



## Brainsilence02

Martin is bllllloody right (practising my slang-ish English) 

Some women take under exploitation the tag "weak gender" and keep winning "he manipulated me, he is a bad person". Some of them women mean it, some don't.



Martinelv said:


> [...] though the woman in question was more than willing to ride the carnal carousel with us. So who's manipulating who? Is this some kind of trick to make us commit to something neither us of really wants


Yeap, that's the bottom of it. For those women.

Men manipulate women. Women manipulate men. Not just in sex/list/love/romance, but everywhere, bussiness included ("for bussiness" as well). People manipulate people. The most capable person will manipulate the less capable. The big fish eats the small one.

All you have to do is try to understand what's happening. Judge. Be cautious. Money is the first on the list. Emotions go next. Don't get attached if you don't see a response. Don't go too fast. Don't go too far ahed, wait for him/her and walk together.

The most probable occation is that the other person didn't want to manipulate you, you just got saged.



Homeskooled said:


> As their moods change, so do the things they want. Once you know a man, you know him. That much remains constant. My girlfriend's moods were in constant hormonal upheaval.


Could that be an excuse? Not her's necessarily. And... don't men have hormones? Isn't our whole mentality a point of chemicals banance? Why not all women don't behave like this? Are there just some unlucky with tricky hormones?

But no matter what, we owe to be just.

Another issue that came to me in coherence: *women get more manipulated by their (female) friends than men themselves.*

I think that those women don't behave like adults. But then, some men don't either (in other ways). We should match those two groups and get our peace 



rainboteers said:


> and also women are constantly manipulated by men. I cant tell you how often I see the following situation happen


Apparently you see things like this because you are woman. Men also see things their way.



rainboteers said:


> she is looking for never existed... it was just a manipulation. Sounds simple but its seems impossible to see when you are in the situation


Don't get in the situation.



Dreamer said:


> Sigh, Martin, don't be upset. I will say, unfortunately, "All is fair in love and war."


Nope. I disagree. It's just that justice is a human invention. Love is nature's invention. War is another story.



*terri said:


> Silly, silly boys. Still hangin' round the playground kickin' at the dirt with your heads down, your hands stuffed in your pockets, scared of the girls.


Nice picture. Graphical  The female side of this one would be "sitting inside her candy-pink room, holding her doll tight"?



*terri said:


> Of course now we know what you were doing with your hands in your pockets all those times :razz:.


I understand the humor, but, I still keep my hands on the pockets (of the jacket preferably) because of feeling anxious.



Dreamer said:


> The guys wanted sex, the girls were vague in what they wanted. They said, kissing, touching.


I know men who's mind goes to this one first. It's something beafore sex, but doesn't "assure" it. Maybe men were expressing their opinion more "aggressively" (not an aggresive opinion, just with an agreesive way). And I am juding this from myself ONLY. Sometimes I am thinking that I would like to have sex with that women (that I am seeing at that moment), but then I understand that this just an initial impulse. I couldn't. Not beafore other things come first.


----------



## rainboteers

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ... im rendered speechless at some of these comments by martin and brainsilence... shocked and bewildered :shock: :? :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## enngirl5

Well it's complete bs rainbot. Men don't manipulate? Ooook. Well when your girl is all over you martin and you want her to just go to bed, why don't you just say no? Can't you just say no? Maybe, just maybe women are more "manipulative", but men have more than enough other a$$hole traits particular to them to balance it all out. So everything works out in the end. Women are victims, men are assholes, and that's what makes the world go round. We all suck. Just find someone who only sucks enough that you can live with it.


----------



## Dreamer

*Yes, could someone give a VERY specific example of how a woman manipulates a man (a "typical" example) and how a man manipulates a woman?*

I'm not angered by this dialogue, but I'm equally stunned by some of the overly generalized concepts. And agreed, *brainsilence, you makes some pretty outrageous claims, I think based soley on your own experience. Again we are all unique. Your comments to Milan, regarding his wife's pregnancy were WAY out of line. Their interaction right now is what is right for them. Also, morning sickness doesn't occur only in the morning and one doesn't feel dandy when it is "time for sex." And as Milan said, babies wear one out. He also said he is looking into sex with orchids, not with other women! 8) Things don't work that way, etc., etc. It sounds like Milan has a very healthy marriage/realtionship with his wife.

Also, "All is fair in love and war." is an expression, an old one that just popped into my mind.
*

Oh *SB*, terri and I are probably more attractive to Dr. Drew as we are Crazy OLD Beans. As I get older, I am indeed attracted to older men. There is more than just physical attraction, there are their accomplishments, common travels through history -- same generations, etc. Men, as they get older, I think are more attracted to YOUNG women... as they always were. And that has to do with a BIOLOGICAL imperative. You have to read anthro, sociology, etc. to understand that. And there is nothing wrong with that. It just IS.

Also, I don't know about manipulation in the "game of sex and romance"... it is a dance men and women do ... it is natural. And again, either side can say "No". There is need however that gets in the way. For me it's loneliness, the need for closeness, not just an orgasm.

But I'd like some specifics here about nasty manipulative women in particular.

I'd say I've manipulated men in my life, a few, yes, but they could also have said "No." There were things we both wanted -- unspoken -- and we played a game. If either party speaks up, the game is over. And these things didn't have to do with sex either -- well one had to do with wanting comfort and being close -- and the man seemed to want the same thing and didnt say NO. Someone I had known for some time.

Why has this turned into a hatefest between men and women? I don't feel that way, but some of the comments are indeed absolutely outrageous.

No we women aren't the Witches of Eastwick any more than all of you men are devils.

Terri, I knew you were kidding about the Witches. I am curious about who the Good Witch of the South is? She is the sister of the Good Witch of the North, LOL. Man, arguing aside here for a minute!

SHEESH. What is the rage here really all about -- especially from the men?
Really. :shock: :?


----------



## Brainsilence02

rainboteers said:


> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ... im rendered speechless at some of these comments by martin and brainsilence... shocked and bewildered :shock: :? :shock: :shock: :shock:


Why? What? What did I said that rendered you speechless?



enngirl5 said:


> Well it's complete bs rainbot. Men don't manipulate? Ooook.


Sure they do:



Brainsilence02 said:


> Men manipulate women. Women manipulate men. Not just in sex/list/love/romance, but everywhere, bussiness included ("for bussiness" as well). People manipulate people. The most capable person will manipulate the less capable. The big fish eats the small one.


I will use a more delicate word this time, "seduction" (or seducement).

Men usually get seduced by a woman's looks (not that I am implying that she has to be a beauty, some men hate that). Women usually get seduced by a man's behavior, or at least, the behavior (not that I am implying that he has to be a flawless gendleman, some women hate that) will define which man that woman will choose.



enngirl5 said:


> [...] but men have more than enough other a$$hole traits particular to them to balance it all out


What are those traits?



Dreamer said:


> Yes, could someone give a VERY specific example of how a woman manipulates a man (a "typical" example) and how a man manipulates a woman?


I will avoid a very specific example. I understand that you ask for that because of a "generalized" feeling of this threat/topic. If you are not satisfied with that, I think I can get something more specific.

(I will repeat because writing "I just said that a few lines above" seems foolish

_Men usually get seduced by a woman's looks (not that I am implying that she has to be a beauty, some men hate that). Women usually get seduced by a man's behavior, or at least, the behavior (not that I am implying that he has to be a flawless gendleman, some women hate that) will define which man that woman will choose._



Dreamer said:


> And agreed, brainsilence, you makes some pretty outrageous claims, I think based soley on your own experience.


Isn't "own experience" everything we have got? (judgement, which enable us to extract conclusions from events, is involved in experience)

Which of my claims are outrageous?



Dreamer said:


> Your comments to Milan, regarding his wife's pregnancy were WAY out of line.


Precisely where did I crossed the line? If you help me understand that, you will enable me to avoid it in the future.



Dreamer said:


> Their interaction right now is what is right for them.


Milan shared the issue in the forum. He seemed disapointed with the situation. I thought that he is looking for an opinion.



Dreamer said:


> Also, morning sickness doesn't occur only in the morning


I thought that since that term has "morning" inside, it was limited to morning.



Dreamer said:


> [continued] and one doesn't feel dandy when it is "time for sex."


I don't understand what you mean. And it would useful to point out which part of that post of mine you are commenting.



Dreamer said:


> And as Milan said, babies wear one out.


I have a different opinion. Some tirement is involved, but "wearing out"? No.



Dreamer said:


> He also said he is looking into sex with orchids, not with other women!


He did? I didn't notice "orchids" or "other women" into that conversation. But even if he said that, why do you mention it?



Dreamer said:


> It sounds like Milan has a very healthy marriage/realtionship with his wife.


I never said the oposite.



Dreamer said:


> Also, "All is fair in love and war." is an expression, an old one that just popped into my mind.


I know this expression. I just don't agree with it and I said why. Do you agree with it?



Dreamer said:


> What is the rage here really all about -- especially from the men?


What makes you think there is rage?


----------



## rainboteers

Brainsilence02 said:


> rainboteers said:
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ... im rendered speechless at some of these comments by martin and brainsilence... shocked and bewildered :shock: :? :shock: :shock: :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> Why? What? What did I said that rendered you speechless?
Click to expand...

I cant add anymore to this conversation. It is pointless, and some of it is so ridiculous I just wouldnt know where to start. Im not angry at all Im just.... well.... im baffled.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

sooooo much analizing and talking and pissing in the wind when only one word and one emoticon is needed to sum it all up.

*MEN.* :roll:


----------



## terri*

:lol:


----------



## Martinelv

> Well when your girl is all over you martin and you want her to just go to bed, why don't you just say no? Can't you just say no


I used to do that, but I'm old enough now to recognise the pouting and tearfull sniffing that proceeds the explosion of:

"You don't love me anymore"
"You don't find me attractive anymore"

But the best one, the most manipulative one is...

"Is there something wrong, have I done something wrong?" (que doe-eyed sniffing)

"NO. I'm just fecking tired and want to go to sleep."

But I forget - women are doing US a favour by relenting and having to go through the terrible ordeal of having sex with us. I'm sorry. I take it all back. :evil:



> Men don't manipulate?


Did I say that? DID I? Why do people only listen to what they want to hear? :evil: :evil:


----------



## boohoo

Oh dear.

I agree with the female perspectives, by the way.

Sorry everyone. I feel bad for starting this (innocently), then quietly tiptoeing away. 

I think Mr Mortgage was the only one who actually put a number on it!! And to think I was going to start a poll for people to do, going up in 10's!!! 
(Not really)

Has anyone read The Female Eunuch by Ger..? Oh. Sorry.


----------



## Axel19

It's a load of overblown paranoia on either side of the gender war. I reckon there is only one true competition in this world, and that is between men and women. Even when men compete against men they are competing against women. Admittedly I must join the men on this one, there's something just so untrustworthy about women, albeit that this probably is just a resulty of my paranoia


----------



## rainboteers

Shouldnt opinions and such be based on the actual PERSON... gender aside? I just dont understand it, you cant generalize like this, it makes no sense. People are people, gender doesnt matter at all. There are manipulative men and manipulative women. It really is that simple. And martin I hate to tell you when women get all weird when you dont want to have sex, it is not a manipulation for most. They honestly get all worried that something is wrong and that you arent attracted to them. It may seems silly but women are so used to guys saying that you want sex all the time, so when you dont it is cause for concern. Do we worry to much and look into things too deeply, well yeah probably, but im sure men do that too. I dont believe that can be classified as a manipulation though.


----------



## Axel19

I think we should all sit down and read 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' that excellent, thought provoking read that has saved many a marriage. Then we will completely understand our differences. Apparently everything's reducible to genetics these days anyway, which is in turn reducible to atoms, which are in turn reducible to quanta. Did you know that women contain no quarks, and have an excess of Z-bosons, that's why they get so stroppy over sex. It's true, they conducted an experiment in a particle accelerator.


----------



## Homeskooled

:lol: Haha...thats one of the funniest things I've read in a while. I'm using that on my next date....

peace
Homeskooled


----------



## Martinelv

Tee hee, you could be right there Axel.

I expect to see an article in National Geogrpahic soon, about how female behaviour can be explained by an excess of 'Strange' quarks. Us blokes are brimming with 'Up', 'Down', 'Left' and....let it be said, 'Charmed."

And let's not mention the Uncertainty Principle. Ever wonder why it takes women so long to get dressed and put on their make up ? Heisenberg had it figured out long ago.


----------



## Axel19

The wave function of make up.


----------



## g-funk

You are forgetting the formula for this

Women = n (x)6%^ ( x =5)-(9-4) x ?4.52

Men = 0

But don't quote me on it, I would have to check my quantum physic textbook, but I'm pretty sure the above equations are correct


----------



## terri*

G-Funk- :lol: Now there's you some damn quantum physics.

Axel, Axel, how could you have gone to the dark side at such an early age? "there's something just so untrustworthy about women..." It must be your paranoria. :shock:

Martin! Tee Hee. Come over here and let me smack you silly.

Come on. :twisted:

A little closer. :evil:

smack dap do wap a mong damn do !!!!! Right upside your head.

You LOVE women and don't you forget it!


----------



## enngirl5

> Did I say that? DID I? Why do people only listen to what they want to hear?


What the f*ck? Yelling at me through the internet. You might as well have said it. You're on this whole thing of why are women so manipulative. I'm hearing what you're saying. So please don't turn this around on I'm only hearing what I want to hear. This whole thread is annoying and idiotic.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

rainboteers said:


> Shouldnt opinions and such be based on the actual PERSON... gender aside? I just dont understand it, you cant generalize like this, it makes no sense. People are people, gender doesnt matter at all. There are manipulative men and manipulative women. It really is that simple. And martin I hate to tell you when women get all weird when you dont want to have sex, it is not a manipulation for most. They honestly get all worried that something is wrong and that you arent attracted to them. It may seems silly but women are so used to guys saying that you want sex all the time, so when you dont it is cause for concern. Do we worry to much and look into things too deeply, well yeah probably, but im sure men do that too. I dont believe that can be classified as a manipulation though.


you pretty much took the words out of my mouth, BUT i think it is a manipulation of a kind. what i dont understand is how martin thinks its like an evil plot against all men and part of some scheme to take over the world and make all men bow down to the almighty vagina goddess.

(well... maybe it is) :wink:

no rainboteers is right, its just a way to get attention, admiration and love. something that ALL creatures want regardless of wether their bits dangle or spread.


----------



## Dreamer

sleepingbeauty said:


> rainboteers said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shouldnt opinions and such be based on the actual PERSON... gender aside? I just dont understand it, you cant generalize like this, it makes no sense. People are people, gender doesnt matter at all. There are manipulative men and manipulative women. It really is that simple. And martin I hate to tell you when women get all weird when you dont want to have sex, it is not a manipulation for most. They honestly get all worried that something is wrong and that you arent attracted to them. It may seems silly but women are so used to guys saying that you want sex all the time, so when you dont it is cause for concern. Do we worry to much and look into things too deeply, well yeah probably, but im sure men do that too. I dont believe that can be classified as a manipulation though.
> 
> 
> 
> you pretty much took the words out of my mouth, BUT i think it is a manipulation of a kind. *what i dont understand is how martin thinks its like an evil plot against all men and part of some scheme to take over the world and make all men bow down to the almighty vagina goddess.*
> 
> (well... maybe it is) :wink:
> 
> no rainboteers is right, its just a way to get attention, admiration and love. something that ALL creatures want regardless of wether their bits dangle or spread.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have to go with this. And this thread is getting idiotic. And you know it is a running joke that no matter how lost a man is -- say driving around town -- he WILL NOT look at a map, WILL NOT ask directions. As I understand it, that is a given in the male of the species, and I can't remember why.

It is true. I have experienced this with a good many men. But not all. I have been on driving escapades taking us 60 miles in the wrong direction before I had to pee and asked at a gas station myself.

I've also been lost in the forest with a man (my husband) who insisted we were going the right way, LOL.

Yes, this thread has gotten ridiculous.

AMEN to sleeping and rainboteers
:roll:


----------



## Dreamer

Oh, I like this, just remembered it....

"A fool and her legs are soon parted." 8)

We're all human beings for crying out loud! :evil:


----------



## Martinelv

> What the f*ck? Yelling at me through the internet


Pardon? Look, forget it. Forget I opened my mouth.



> what i dont understand is how martin thinks its like an evil plot against all men


Sweet mother of god. This is so typical of women. You hear what you want to hear. And YES, I AM generalising. But I said nothing of the sort. I was pointing out that women aren't the wilting wallflowers they make out to be. They are not simply creatures that men use and abuse at their pleasure, but continually, and relentlessly, that's all we hear....and it's boring and untrue.


----------



## boohoo

Look, I am sorry I started this.

That was a lighthearted little joke when I said I agreed with the female perspective.

Am I really that annoying?

Before I was agoraphobic and going out all the time, I don't remember people ever pouncing on every word I say like it's been done on here.
Or is that just me being paranoid now?
Or is that what it's like on the internet? I wouldn't know - this is the only forum I use.

I can't seem to say anything without pissing someone off or getting a lecture.

I know I'm paranoid anyway, but I feel like everyone hates me on here. And it's upsetting me.

Listen. I'm sorry for starting this. I've never seen a topic get like this before, and I'm sorry for stirring up emotions in people.

And if anyone pounces on me for saying this now, well, I just despair.


----------



## Martinelv

I posted this on the main forum:



> Oh yeah, and my latest girlfriend revealed to me last night that she has three children. Only took her two months to get around to it. Isn't life great? Needless to say I told her where to go, and now - sweet jesus, I'm being bombarded by text messages alternately begging for forgiveness or threatening to send her ex-husband around to 'sort me'.


Now her 'sister' is texting me, begging me to take her back and she won't lie ever again and blah blah blah and she's a lovely person and..... Manipulation? :lol: :lol: :lol: I many be insane but I'm not stupid.


----------



## g-funk

It's the nature of the internet - you can't see facial movements or hear tone of speech. Things are easily misunderstood like in the other thread.

I think this thread has kind of got out of hand. Everybody's entitled to their opinion but we're taking it out on each other when none of us have even met and have no idea what each of us are really like, so all these generalised comments mean shit.

Men manipulate. Women manipulate. In different ways, in similar ways. What more can we establish? :roll:


----------



## g-funk

ok, Martin, run, run for your life. I don't know if that constitutes manipulation but if you're not that arsed about her anyway...get the hell out of there. 'sending her ex husband around'. ...grow up lady


----------



## g-funk

I appreciate the contradictory content of the two previous posts, before anyone says it!!! :twisted:


----------



## terri*

Dear BooHoo,

This is all a bunch of silly arguementive talk for the sake of a good old fashioned arguement. Some subject comes up and everyone decide's what position they are going to take. Then the sarcasm and wicked wit begins. But we are all friends and it is like a game of tennis played by a bunch of yelling, screaming two year olds. If one of us were to "fall down" right now, we would rush to their side. It always reminds me of a bunch of brothers and sisters picking fights.

"Those" UK'ers are especially good at this kind of play. Have you ever watched their politics in action? Tony Blair will stand up and say something and the boys behind him will be like "yeah, yeah!". Then the guy on the other side of the hall will stand up and say something with a bit of a sting on the end of it and all his cronies in the bleachers will start this mumbling, chanting kind of thing. It reminds me a lot of us. :lol:

It is rare when the people who are on here frequently actually get in to a mean nasty fight. Please don't feel like you started anything. Instead feel like you gave us all a reason to vent.

Now! Where's Martin? He's the one who started all of this with that Witches of Eastwick comment. :twisted: Now he's whining like the guys in the bleachers.


----------



## Martinelv

No, please don't take any of this personally. I really try and refrain from personal attacks. It's just the age-old man vs woman debate. Take it all with a pinch of salt, you bitches. :wink:


----------



## Dreamer

*Firstly, BooHoo, listen to Terri re: this thread. Good grief, not your fault! This is actually, as are so many of the threads down here in "That's Life", a great distraction. You haven't done a thing wrong and no one is angry with you. And let me make this clear I personally am not angry with men, but who cares anyway... LOL. :roll: Men and Women are DIFFERENT, not Good vs. Evil. OY,

... yet I digress...*



Martinelv said:


> I posted this on the main forum:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, and my latest girlfriend revealed to me last night that she has three children. Only took her two months to get around to it. Isn't life great? Needless to say I told her where to go, and now - sweet jesus, I'm being bombarded by text messages alternately begging for forgiveness or threatening to send her ex-husband around to 'sort me'.
> 
> 
> 
> Now her 'sister' is texting me, begging me to take her back and she won't lie ever again and blah blah blah and she's a lovely person and..... Manipulation? :lol: :lol: :lol: I many be insane but I'm not stupid.
Click to expand...

Dear Martin,
I'm certain you hate me (my paranoia) ... but at any rate. Never in my life ... I don't know people to whom this happens. I don't. But I know one thing, and people have said it 1,000 -- choose mates wisely.

This sounds like an arsehole lecture, but for me, the best way to find guys has been:
1. Taking classes or an activity together where we get to know each over over a significant period of time. Meeting at work is dicey, unless each have "similar" jobs in adjacent buildings (how my best friend met her husband -- journalist/probation officer -- common building, City Hall and the Courthouse, LOL).
2. Being INTRODUCED by a decent friend at a party -- preferably a dinner party with a number of couples, some married some not who can keep the conversation afloat.

My sense, and this is where I'm getting the self-destructive part of you more clearly. If you find women so quickly -- such as at bars/pubs, and then indeed, hop directly into the sack, you're asking for troube. Lord I sound like your Mum, but it's IMHO.

Something like concealing children and such ... well, it seems not enough time was taken before this individual became your girlfriend.

The worst story I've ever heard from a friend (from back in high school) was she dated a man for quite a long time, he asked her to marry, and shortly thereafter he came out of the closet! Well though she was devastated, there was nothing to indicate he was gay, or she didn't want to see it. Bottom line, he had been "trying to pass as straight" and thought marriage to a "good friend" would work, but of course she wanted kids.... they were married!

*Now I'm wondering if you're joking about the story as well. But if you're not, I'd say pubs/bars with much drinking involved/easy sex, are a place where more than likely one is going to get into trouble. There are a million other way to meet men/women. Heck I go to a suicide survivor support group where I'm slowly making a few friends. Sounds grisly, but I learn more about these people in such a surrounding than I ever could at a bar.*

And also, I don't presume to know how your relationships develop, but it seems you jump into things so quickly. Others who do the same are equally impuslive and risk being hurt, angry, STALKERS :shock:

End of lecture. With hopes for a better outcome.
D 8)


----------



## Martinelv

> I'm certain you hate me


What on earth gave you that impression? You're on the list...what more could I do to show my affection? :wink:



> My sense, and this is where I'm getting the self-destructive part of you more clearly. If you find women so quickly -- such as at bars/pubs, and then indeed, hop directly into the sack, you're asking for trouble


Why? Are bars and clubs the exlusive refuge of the sexually promiscuous? I let you know I only frequent gentlemans clubs. But I get your point.



> Heck I go to a suicide survivor support group where I'm slowly making a few friends


It's not funny, but I'm sure you see the funny side to that as well. I except you're like me - someone who looks forward to going to funerals in case you meet someone.



> Now I'm wondering if you're joking about the story as well


No, I'm not. You know the regular calamity that infects my life.


----------



## Dreamer

Dear Martin,
Glad you don't hate me, LOL. Glad I'm still on the list.

Oh, and my group is for family members and friends who have survived the suicide of a friend, not survived a suicide attempt themselves. :shock:

There are Moms, husbands, friends, siblings, etc. left with such strange and unresolved grief. For me it has been nearly a year since my friend took her own life and that of her elderly mother. One needs to talk it out.

It's fascinating to see that these particular people have the desire to come to the workshops to work this out.

At any rate, I understand if you attend gentlemen's clubs, etc... but yes, you understand what I mean.

Oh, my friend with the gay husband got divorced. I'd call that manipulation, indeed. I'd say what this girlfriend in your life is doing is ... engaging in simply tremendously unhealthy behavior.

In that sense again, it is our responsibility to really communicate with prospectie partners. How in the world could she hide 3 children? Who is taking care of them? How could she stay over for instance and leave those children alone. That's a tip off to an irresponsible person at minimum.

OK, enuf said. The Bells at Notre Dame will NEVER ring again, LOL.

Take Care,
D 8)


----------



## Brainsilence02

I made twice the same mistake, "don't involve in controversial/ambiguous issues".

PS: do I analyze too much, while I shouldn't?

Oh, and...



Dreamer said:


> There are a million other way to meet men/women


Tell me some.


----------



## Dreamer

Brainsilence02 said:


> Oh, and...
> 
> 
> 
> Dreamer said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are a million other way to meet men/women
> 
> 
> 
> Tell me some.
Click to expand...

I listed a few in a post above as I recall. :shock:


----------



## Brainsilence02

I didn't noticed. I will read again.


----------



## MrMortgage

I'll say something... I was talking to some girl that I wasnt especially attracted to, but she was nice, and we got close to having sex last week, but I didnt want to because I know her tract record and something told me not to have sex with her.....


----------



## Brainsilence02

MrMortgage, I could just assume what you mean, I have a suspicion, but it's better to let us know yourself.

What do you mean "track record"?


----------



## MrMortgage

^
What I mean is...she's probably been with at least 10-20 guys...I dont know, but the word gets around...I dont need to be invovled with people like that...


----------



## sebastian

MrMortgage said:


> ^
> What I mean is...she's probably been with at least 10-20 guys...I dont know, but the word gets around...I dont need to be invovled with people like that...


What's wrong with her sleeping with a bunch of guys? As long as she's worn protection.

Where i'm from, we've got a word for people like that: "Fun!"


----------



## MrMortgage

sebastian said:


> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> ^
> What I mean is...she's probably been with at least 10-20 guys...I dont know, but the word gets around...I dont need to be invovled with people like that...
> 
> 
> 
> What's wrong with her sleeping with a bunch of guys? As long as she's worn protection.
> 
> Where i'm from, we've got a word for people like that: "Fun!"
Click to expand...

True true, I'm sure it would of been great fun for me and boring for her since I dont have experience, but I'm the type of guy that gets with the girl that most guys cant get with...


----------



## agentcooper

MrMortgage said:


> I'm the type of guy that gets with the girl that most guys cant get with...


 :lol: sorry, but this kinda made me giggle. it cracks me up when people say stuff like that.


----------



## Homeskooled

Dear agent cooper, 


> sorry, but this kinda made me giggle. it cracks me up when people say stuff like that.


Oh really??? Well, I'll have you know that _I'm_ that type of guy too. What are you going to do, giggle at me as well? :wink:

Peace
Homeskooled


----------



## terri*

insignificant post


----------



## MrMortgage

agentcooper said:


> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the type of guy that gets with the girl that most guys cant get with...
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: sorry, but this kinda made me giggle. it cracks me up when people say stuff like that.
Click to expand...

I hope you dont think that I think my shit dont stink and I'm some hot hunk or something because I'm not, I think I'm below average in the looks department, but for some reason, some of the hard to get girls like me...dont know why...maybe its the way I talk or something... I dont know?


----------



## Brainsilence02

MrMortgage said:


> I'm the type of guy that...


I am scared to think that there are "types of guys".



MrMortgage said:


> ... that gets with the girl that most guys cant get with...


Like an achievement then?

Could it only be a subjective opinion? Could it be an issue of egoism of the girl ("I am hard to get") and an issue of how much is one willing to do in order to satisfy the egoism of the other person?



MrMortgage said:


> some of the hard to get girls like me


It would give me a great understanding if you could tell me about the "hard to get girl". Is she too a "type of girl"? What's her characteristics?


----------



## MrMortgage

Brainsilence02 said:


> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the type of guy that...
> 
> 
> 
> I am scared to think that there are "types of guys".
> 
> 
> 
> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... that gets with the girl that most guys cant get with...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Like an achievement then?
> 
> Could it only be a subjective opinion? Could it be an issue of egoism of the girl ("I am hard to get") and an issue of how much is one willing to do in order to satisfy the egoism of the other person?
> 
> 
> 
> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> some of the hard to get girls like me
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would give me a great understanding if you could tell me about the "hard to get girl". Is she too a "type of girl"? What's her characteristics?
Click to expand...

Good points! This is what I think it is, a lot of nice and very attractive girls are out there and even though they say their not stuck up they kinda are, its natural when you get a lot of attention from people, no matter how hard you try you do get some type of "conceitedness"(I dont know if I spelled that right?)

anyway, I think i'm the quiet guy that doesnt jump at all the cute girls that most guys do, in a sense I wait for them to talk to me, I rarley make the first move, and when a girl doesnt get the attention from me that she get from everyone else, she wonders why and tries to put on the "juice" to get me paying attention...

when I dont respond to that, it makes em' more nuts and all of a sudden...well you know the rest.

I know that some girls like mystery, guys that throw themselves at all the desirable girls leave little to discover.


----------



## agentcooper

Homeskooled said:


> Dear agent cooper,
> 
> 
> 
> sorry, but this kinda made me giggle. it cracks me up when people say stuff like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really??? Well, I'll have you know that _I'm_ that type of guy too. What are you going to do, giggle at me as well? :wink:
> 
> Peace
> Homeskooled
Click to expand...

dear home skooled,

i'm giggling right now.... :wink:


----------



## agentcooper

MrMortgage said:


> agentcooper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MrMortgage said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm the type of guy that gets with the girl that most guys cant get with...
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: sorry, but this kinda made me giggle. it cracks me up when people say stuff like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hope you dont think that I think my silly* dont stink and I'm some hot hunk or something because I'm not, I think I'm below average in the looks department, but for some reason, some of the hard to get girls like me...dont know why...maybe its the way I talk or something... I dont know?
Click to expand...

no, no...i know you didn't mean it like that  it just made me giggle, is all...


----------



## sleepingbeauty




----------



## Homeskooled

Where the heck do you find these emoticons? Dont you start giggling too. I'll have you know that when I start talking theology and psychiatric meds, it makes women's knees go weak....

Peace
Homeskooled 8)


----------



## Dreamer

There has been research, I know "Shut up, Dreamer", that again, as some sort of instinctual mechansim men and women who are most attractive (looks wise) get together, those less attractive (looks wise) get together.

Again, I can't remember the biological basis for that, but there is a biological basis for attraction.

I don't consider myself the most attractive woman that walked the earth, I'm fairly attractive. When I was young, in my 20s and 30s I was a babe 8) . I was slender but with my "female hips and ass" LOL, in good shape, really took care of my looks, etc. I had more guys interested in me than I could shake a stick at. It's not the same these days, although admittedly I'm less concerned with how glamorous I look and wish I could lose about 10 pounds and be more muscular.

To be honest, I'd love to look like a Victoria's Secret model, but I think that's a media standard. But beauty has always been a factor in "mating". In animals, the male critters often compete for a female with the most "attractive" featrues. You know frequently the [m]males[/b] of species have fancy wings/feathers/hairdos/colors and that stuff. Or they are the strongest, smartest, etc. -- natural selection of the best = best chance for survival of the fittest.

I think it "improves the gene pool" or whatever.

Being humans, you'd think we'd be beyond that. But also, for men who are less attractive phsycially, extremely high achievement is also an aphrodisiac for women. I don't think that works for all men, but it does for some.

I think "birds of a feather" etc.... and there's nothing wrong with that.

Common values, a really "connection", a dedication to the relationship, the knowledge that beauty fades and that companionship is more important are most important, etc.

D


----------



## sebastian

Can't we all just start talking about squids again?


----------



## Dreamer

sebastian said:


> Can't we all just start talking about squids again?


LOLOLOLOL -
Oh Lordy, "let us, oh let us, oh lettuce leaves, oh let us leave this tree and eat."

- Edward Lear? -
"The Plum Pudding Flea?"
Don't know WHY I thought of that, but we need to return silliness. 8)


----------



## g-funk

There was a documentary over here about genes, and how similar looking people attract each other because of their genetic compatibilty.

Personally, I've never had any trouble getting the squid I want.


----------



## enngirl5

I always thought similar looking people attracted each other but I always thought it was just an ego thing. We want someone that looks like us. We feel more connected to people that look like us. Plus they look like our parents and that's getting into the whole women marrying their father thing and that's a whole other can of worms.


----------



## Brainsilence02

Dreamer said:


> There has been research, I know "Shut up, Dreamer", that again, as some sort of instinctual mechansim men and women who are most attractive (looks wise) get together, those less attractive (looks wise) get together.


Nice to hear that.

This issue has been in my head for 5 months. When I feel ugly, I dislike beautiful women. And vice versa. I had a simple explenation. I want to be equal with my mate. Therefore, I seek the same level of "attractive-ness".



Dreamer said:


> When I was young, in my 20s and 30s I was a babe


I can confirm that  

I will add some more about mate selection, based on a documentary I saw recently, but right now I am wasted (tirement).

TODO: write about peacocks, smell on humans, etc


----------



## terri*

Sebastian...Squids saved my life!!

G-Funk...sure we can get any squid we want, but what to do with them after you get them has always been my problem. 8)

Dreamer...say Plum Pudding Flea three times real fast. That should keep you occupied.

Homeskooled...


> . I'll have you know that when I start talking theology and psychiatric meds, it makes women's knees go weak....


YOU ARE HOT ! I love it when you start talking that psychiatric med talk.

To everyone else, have you ever even considered a squid as a mate? Would you?


----------



## Dreamer

g-funk said:


> Personally, I've never had any trouble getting the squid I want.


LOL

OK, I'm going to run naked with squids from now on but here is a brief essay on why men and women are attracted to specific characteristics in the other sex. Biological.

And of course there are psychological factors, etc., and yes, we are humans, but this works cross-culturally as well and goes back to our most primitive instincts that are as inbred as a terrier needing to dig a hole and bury a bone. (That would be my terrier Boo.) How are our inbred instincts going to know that we're going to be decimated as a species? And if we are, all the more reason for the survivors to get back to procreation. Ah, there will be a time to look forward to. :shock:

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web1/dfernandez.html

D 8)


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## Brainsilence02

_(This what from that documentary I saw)_

(1)

The utility of sex is to have genetical variance.

Peacocks gave trouble to Darwin because the males of every other species he examined has characteristics to enable them to better survive. The tail of the peacock is rather a burden. But the thing is that female peacocks see the tail of the male and think "wow, he has to be healthy in order to have such a beautiful tail and really strong in order to escape predators".

Today, there are men that are lions, and men that are peacocks.

(2)

There is a speciment of birds that lives in a lake with many crocociles. The crocodiles eat the eggs and the birds cannot defence against that crocodiles. A solution was found. The females had to be free to make many eggs. The roles of male and female are reversed. The females have harems and after the females make the eggs, it's the males that sit/hatch/brood them.

(3)

In a forest there are two speciments of monkeys. The ones living inside the forest and the ones living just outsite.

In the speciment that lives inside the forest, the females have some trouble getting food because they have to climb on the trees, while at the same time they have their babies to take care. For the males, it's easy. The females depend on the males to get food. The males are dictatorial against the females. There is a very "tight" society. The females mate with all males in order for the males not to be able to understand if the children the female has belong to him. Otherwise, they kill the children (the male children only).

In the speciment that lives outside the forest, the females have no trouble getting food. It's plenty on the ground. This speciment has a much more peacefull society.

The human species was a nomad in the past, making it difficult for the females to find food. If things were different, we would have been a much more peaceful race.

(4)

An experiment took place. A number of men and women took part in it. The men wore a t-shirt for several days without bath. The shirt took their smell. The women later snifed (I hope I am using the right word) the shirts (without seeing the men) and placed the shirts in an order of preferance (from the one they liked the smell most to the one they liked least). Later, a DNA test was performed. It showed that the females that selected (through smell) the men that had the greatest genetic varience with them.

So, a little common logic advice: stop using cologne and if you girl/woman doesn't like your smell, it's time to set appart.


----------



## sleepingbeauty

terri* said:


> To everyone else, have you ever even considered a squid as a mate? Would you?


8 tenticles, god knows how many suckers... for any woman out there that would be pretty damn hard to pass up.


----------



## Dreamer

sleepingbeauty said:


> terri* said:
> 
> 
> 
> To everyone else, have you ever even considered a squid as a mate? Would you?
> 
> 
> 
> 8 tenticles, god knows how many suckers... for any woman out there that would be pretty damn hard to pass up.
Click to expand...

 :lol: Indeed. 8)

I'm definitely changing my sexual orientation to that of the squid family...
here they were listed under mollusks? Someone early in the thread had the proper taxonomy? for the squid.

http://www.gtamart.com/mart/products/seafood/molluscs.html

But these were for sale for dining, LOL 8)

The only REALLY good thing about my health right now is I again have "excellent teeth." I passed my dental exam today. Small pleasures. :roll:


----------



## terri*

EXACTLY !! :lol:

Hello? I thought we were going to change this to a fun thread?

"- Edward Lear? - 
"The Plum Pudding Flea?" 
Don't know WHY I thought of that, but we need to return silliness."


----------



## terri*

Dreamer my Dear...we must stop posting like this. 

I knew you'd have to appreciate SleepingBeauty's thought.

Squid Lovers Unite!


----------



## Dreamer

terri* said:


> EXACTLY !! :lol:
> 
> Hello? I thought we were going to change this to a fun thread?
> 
> "- Edward Lear? -
> "The Plum Pudding Flea?"
> Don't know WHY I thought of that, but we need to return silliness."


*OK woman, say "Unique New York" as fast as you can 10 times in a row you crazy old bean.* :shock:

I want to get a little dog and call it Squid. That is a great name, LOL. I like it.


----------



## terri*

Call ME a crazy old bean, will ya????

Okay. 

I LOVE the idea of Squid for a dog. Ewww...when I get home I am going on an internet picture hunt of a dog that could stand up to the name Squid.
Sleepy's good at that, if she has time.

Unique new yourk
unigue mnew uoprl
unigwu new wuopr
unique new yourk
new yeeh newy york

Oh Silly Billy It !! LOL


----------



## Axel19

I still think that reducing everything to genetic survival, whilst empircally sound, is awfully boring. Whatever happend to two souls meeting one another and becoming bound as one with the spirit of the universe, because God decreed that it should be that way? 
Female squids carry the sperm from the last sexual encounter around with them, for furture self insemination, how romantic?!?!?!?


----------



## Dreamer

Axel19 said:


> I still think that reducing everything to genetic survival, whilst empircally sound, is awfully boring. Whatever happend to two souls meeting one another and becoming bound as one with the spirit of the universe, because God decreed that it should be that way?
> Female squids carry the sperm from the last sexual encounter around with them, for furture self insemination, how romantic?!?!?!?


 :lol:

My final boring article, just read it. Another reason why men NEED to prefer young women in the "survival" game. A bite for career women.

*OK I'M GOING TO NEVER BE SERIOUS AGAIN SAVE MY SEARCH FOR MY SQUID SOUL MATE.*

*Delay Parenthood? Better Think Again
Updated 11/18/2005 12:40:31 AM *

By Salynn Boyles

*Nov. 17, 2005 - Young professionals who plan to put off parenthood may be overly optimistic about their chances of ending up with the family they desire.

A survey of men and women seeking advanced degrees at a Swedish university found that both sexes tended to overestimate a woman's chances of having children after age 40.

Almost everyone questioned said they wanted children, and four out of five wanted more than one child. But one in eight women said they planned to wait until their 40s to have their last baby, and almost half planned to wait until at least age 35.

A researcher on the study called the findings "alarming" because so few of the students seemed to understand that a woman's chances of having a baby start to decline in her mid-30s.*

*It Won't Happen to Us*

*According to figures from the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, one-third of women trying to conceive after age 35 will have problems getting pregnant, and two-thirds of women over age 40 will not be able to conceive without medical treatment.*

"Few of those surveyed were aware of the very sharp decline in fertility that occurs before age 40," Claudia Lampic, PhD, tells WebMD.

"I think couples just assume that they will be able to have babies, and they don't think so much about fertility. They may have read that fertility declines after age 35, but they think it won't happen to them."

*The survey included 222 women and 179 men selected randomly from students seeking degrees in medicine, law, economics, or engineering at Sweden's Uppsala University. Their average age was 24.

A total of 97% of the men and 96% of the women who did not have children said they wanted them someday. Men most often said they hoped to have three children, and women were evenly divided between a desire for two or three.*

Two-thirds of the women said they hoped to have their first child before the age of 30, but the rest planned to give birth for the first time between age 30 and 34. Just over one in 10 said they hoped to have their last baby in their 40s, but almost half (47%) chose 35-39 as the ideal age for their last child.

*Misunderstanding Fertility Treatments*

Just over half of the men surveyed hoped to have their first child after age 30 and before age 35. Nearly half wanted to have their last child between age 35 and 39, and one out of five hoped to have their last child between ages 40 and 44.

The study appears in the latest online edition of the journal Human Reproduction.

*"This is not just a woman's issue," Lampic says. "This is a couple's issue."

She adds that couples often wrongly believe that infertility treatments can reliably prolong a woman's fertility. This thinking may be less pervasive in the U.S. than in Sweden, where the government pays for the treatment.*

"There is the feeling that if we can't have babies the normal way, we can rely on in vitro fertilization," she says. "But they are not aware that the chances of success with IVF also decline with age."

Julie Greenstein, who is director of government relations for the infertility support group RESOLVE, says women who have had a child before age 35 may not recognize the risks associated with waiting to have other children.

"If they had an easy time getting pregnant with a first child, they may wait longer than they should to seek treatment if they are having problems," she says. "The thinking may be, 'I can't have a problem with fertility because I already have a child.'"

Greenstein says women under 35 who have tried unsuccessfully to get pregnant for a year should see an infertility specialist. Women over 35 should wait no longer than six months.

*SOURCES:* Lampic, C., Human Reproduction, Nov. 17, 2005 online edition. Claudia Lampic, PhD, associate professor, Department of Public Health and Caring Sciences, Uppsala University, Uppsala, Sweden. WebMD Feature: "Fertile - or Futile?" ASRM Patient's Fact Sheet: "Prediction of Fertility Potential in Older Female Patients." Julie Greenstein, director of government relations, RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association.


----------



## Tom Servo

"...have you ever even considered a squid as a mate?"

"...similar looking people attract each other because of their genetic compatibilty..."

Hmmm, maybe these DP get togethers aren't such a good idea afterall.


----------



## terri*

Tom...indeed, is a scarey idea. :shock:

Dreamer...yeah, you're never gonna do anymore serious research. Did lightning strike when you typed that? 8)

Now, back to serious squid talk...










Male Squid...I can't stand you.

Female Squid...See, I told you!
ALL you Squid are just alike!


----------



## Guest

Well, I dont know about men, but it really sucks when one has someone trying to 'pull you in' and once they 'have you' they run as fast as they can. Gotta agree here with Enngirl and Rainboteers. It really sucks. :?


----------



## terri*

Yeah, I think a lot of us ended up agreeing that whether male or female, being led on by anyone ends up being painful.


----------



## revdoc

> The first and only principle of sexual ethics: the accuser is always in the wrong.


(Theodor Adorno.)


----------



## terri*

> He who has loved and who betrays love does harm not only to the image of the past, but to the past itself.
> Theodor Adorno


That Theo...couldn't quite make up his mind how he felt.


----------



## Axel19

> Well, I dont know about men, but it really sucks when one has someone trying to *'pull you in'* and once they *'have you'* they run as fast as they can.


Were you referring to squids there Wendy?


----------



## Guest

Axel19 said:


> Well, I dont know about men, but it really sucks when one has someone trying to *'pull you in'* and once they *'have you'* they run as fast as they can.
> 
> 
> 
> Were you referring to squids there Wendy?
Click to expand...

If they could '*run fast*', maybe Axel :wink:


----------



## enngirl5

Well it's a game to some people, Wendy. I guess that's their low self-esteem. The only way they know their worth is by having as many people as possible want them. I'm more serious about love. If I don't feel it, you're not gonna hear it from me.


----------



## Martinelv

I am going to have sex with Dreamer, god willing, before I completely pickle my liver or finally slip into the pool of insanity, whichever comes sooner. It's all I care about, sex. But when it actually comes down to it, I'd rather have a cup of tea. Strange eh?

Anyway, that's all I've got to say on the matter.

Oh, and possibly Terri*, G-FUNK (if she doesn't get married), LittleCrocodile, Janine is she ever returns and every other lady on here. And possibly a few blokes as well. You know who you are. :wink:

I see myself in a 'Leaving Las Vegas' kind of situation soon. Anyone want to play the Elizabeth Shue role? I'm buying!


----------



## boohoo

> I am going to have sex with Dreamer, god willing, before I completely pickle my liver or finally slip into the pool of insanity, whichever comes sooner. It's all I care about, sex. But when it actually comes down to it, I'd rather have a cup of tea. Strange eh?
> 
> Anyway, that's all I've got to say on the matter.
> 
> Oh, and possibly Terri*, G-FUNK (if she doesn't get married), LittleCrocodile, Janine is she ever returns and every other lady on here. And possibly a few blokes as well. You know who you are.


All at the same time? You can count me in on that. Please.


----------



## boohoo

Sorry, I was meant to highlight the bit about the blokes.

Just thought I'd make that clear - don't want to frighten anyone off!!


----------



## g-funk

Boy George said he preferred a cup of tea to sex.

What kind of tea are we talking about here, and where can I get some? Maybe we'll sit and drink tea on our honeymoon instead...

Proud yet again to have made Martin's list. Will I not make the lists once I'm married? I get my self esteem from these damn lists :shock:


----------



## Martinelv

> Will I not make the lists once I'm married?


Absolutely not. I may be insane, but I'm not a total bastard. Betrayal is the worst thing in the world. Sorry and all that. Better come and get it while you still can.


----------



## g-funk

no no no no, I wouldn't be unfaithful! My best mate came round crying yesterday because she found out her boyfriend of 4 years has slept with four other people. harsh

I can handle being excluded from the list. It's ok. All I've ever wanted is to be loved 

:twisted:


----------



## Brainsilence02

Ahhh yes, the insamous list! Schindler would feel really small infront of that list 



Martinelv said:


> I am going to have sex with Dreamer, god willing, before I completely pickle my liver or finally slip into the pool of insanity, whichever comes sooner.


Seek help. Self-destructive tentions equals to suicide.



> It's all I care about, sex. But when it actually comes down to it, I'd rather have a cup of tea. Strange eh?


Nope. Don't see sex as something seperate.

Appart from that, I have experienced what you describe (of cource it may not be the same) and it wasn't sex what I needed. I was just unhappy with things (a.k.a. "life")



Martinelv said:


> And possibly a few blokes as well. You know who you are. Wink


Has it always been like this Martin? I never noticed


----------



## Martinelv

> Seek help. Self-destructive tentions equals to suicide.


I'm trying !



> Nope. Don't see sex as something seperate. Apart from that, I have experienced what you describe (of cource it may not be the same) and it wasn't sex what I needed. I was just unhappy with things (a.k.a. "life")


Agreed. But, sigh - well I might as well say it seeing as I'm baring my soul today. My lack of enjoyment with 'sex', is a more, well, physical problem. I shall NOT elaborate, except to say it's got nothing to do with impotence. The opposite in fact.



> Has it always been like this Martin? I never noticed


I am 86% hetrosexual. Hand on heart, I do not find men sexually attractive. But on the exceedingly rare occassion that I encounter men who are so fecking intelligent or witty, I must admit to some groinal stirrings. That's where the other 14% comes from. I've only ever acted on it twice, and even then I was out of my brain on drugs.


----------



## Brainsilence02

I understand what you say about physical problem. It could have something to do with drinking and chemo (still on that?).

As for 86-14, it beats my understanding. I guess the question would be then why is witty so important to you? But I think it gets too personal by that already.


----------



## Homeskooled

Dear Martin, 


> I shall NOT elaborate, except to say it's got nothing to do with impotence. The opposite in fact.


Hmm, priapism, eh? Just kidding. Now *that* would stink.

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/3/1680_50136.htm



> But on the exceedingly rare occassion that I encounter men who are so fecking intelligent or witty, I must admit to some groinal stirrings


Is _that_ why you've been sending me those incessant PMs, day and night?Alas, I've been trying to play down my wit and brillance but I guess it just isnt working..... :wink:

Peace
Homeskooled


----------



## Tom Servo

Homeskooled said:


> Is _that_ why you've been sending me those incessant PMs, day and night?Alas, I've been trying to play down my wit and brillance but I guess it just isnt working..... :wink:


Wow, so there IS an advantage to my having an IQ of 12!


----------

