# I am finally off medication and I feel better than ever!



## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

I got on medication when I was 15. There were some terrible things going on in my life, and I asked my GP for Zoloft, an anti-depressant. I had never been on medication before, but after seeing those zoloft commercials of the sad, moopy circle turned happy, dancing socialite, I begged my doctor to let me try it. Within an hour of the first pill, I was, for the first time in my life, suicidal. It's not that I WANTED to kill myself, quite the opposite. It's that I couldn't stop thinking about it, and had an URGE to kill myself, even though I didn't want to die. Even after stopping the medication, periodically over the next several years, the urges would come back out of nowhere.

On Topamax, an anti-seizure medication that I used as an appetite suppresant, I had muscle tremors and terrible nightmares.

One anxiety medication (I forgot the name!) caused permanent brain fog and muscle twitches.

Geodon helped control the side effects I'd developed from that anxiety medication, but kept me generally drowsy and I slept A LOT.

I took medication for seven years. I've found doctors love to over-medicate. At twenty years old, I took over 30 pills a day because of "depression". After I took my medicine, I would shake uncontrollably, my teeth would chatter, I couldn't see straight, it was hard to function. And the doctors took notes and continued to experiment.

Back in '09 I'd decided I'd had enough. I have tried, literally, hundreds of brand name and off brand medications in all different kinds of combinations. Medication was an over-powering part of my life, and I'd never felt shittier. I had tried getting off medication before, by quitting cold turkey. And I felt awful. So I've spent the last 2 years weaning off of them. I can now say I am off medication and I feel better than I have in years. Interestingly enough, every time I lowered my dose of Geodon (the last remaining medication I took, my depersonalization noticeably lessened.

Now, my depresonalization is barely noticable, and the side effects I had don't act up very often.

I still get depressed sometimes, but it's an emotion everyone has. I figure, depression is only a "mental illness" if you have no reason to be depressed. There are ALWAYS reasons to be depressed.

Anyway, I also want to include this link to "Making a Killing: The Pharmaceutical Industry Pt 1/3". This is on youtube. There are three parts, and if you take medication or if you are thinking about taking medication, this is something you should consider watching.


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## Reborn (Jun 24, 2011)

Holy shit! this video just blew my mind!!! I just watched the other two parts. I'm definitely gonna wean off Effexor immediately. How do pdocs sleep at night? Looks like they're the crazy ones after all. Thanks for the post.


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Good for you buddy!

I hope everything goes good for you and have a quick recovery!

- Jayden


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2011)

don't touch those pills people. even a beer everyday is better.


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## Totally DP'D (Jun 8, 2011)

I had a psychologist once who recommended a couple of beers for stress. Even as a long term DP sufferer I choose not to take any medication on an experimental basis. Until they know exactly what it is they are treating, I'd rather not!


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2011)

Totally DP said:


> I had a psychologist once who recommended a couple of beers for stress. Even as a long term DP sufferer I choose not to take any medication on an experimental basis. Until they know exactly what it is they are treating, I'd rather not!


that's a wise thing to do.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

I don't believe in medicating emotional conditions such as anxeity. There are safer ways to treat it, such as CBT and meditation, excercise etc. Anti-depressants are handed out too freely, and psychiatrists rarely warn you of the effects of withdrawal, side effects. And many ADs make people suicidal or even violent. Many people would benefit from therapy, not pills

But, it is necessary to medicate severe psychiatric illnesses sich as schizophrenia and bipolar, as unmedicated, people can be a danger to themselves.


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> But, it is necessary to medicate severe psychiatric illnesses sich as schizophrenia and bipolar, as unmedicated, people can be a danger to themselves.


I believe people's bodies are their own, and they should have the freedom to do with them what they want. It's "consentual", where's the problem?

(and no, I'm not advocating suicide, only human rights.)

There is no test for mental illness, what is mental illness?

Schizophrenia? Everyone hears "voices" it's called your thoughts. The "danger" is some of them, on an individual basis, can be homicidal. Then again, more violent crime is committed by non-schizophrenics because they "thought" it was a good idea. There is no proof medication helps, quite the opposite. What you seem to be talking about is sedation, and yeah, that makes it hard for anyone to function.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2011)

WHY said:


> There is no test for mental illness, what is mental illness?
> 
> Schizophrenia? Everyone hears "voices" it's called your thoughts. The "danger" is some of them, on an individual basis, can be homicidal. Then again, more violent crime is committed by non-schizophrenics because they "thought" it was a good idea. There is no proof medication helps, quite the opposite. What you seem to be talking about is sedation, and yeah, that makes it hard for anyone to function.


10000% agree.

what's called mental illness in USA might be the complete normality for a tribe in Africa, and vice versa.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> I believe people's bodies are their own, and they should have the freedom to do with them what they want. It's "consentual", where's the problem?
> 
> (and no, I'm not advocating suicide, only human rights.)
> 
> ...


No no no. Sorry this is total bullshit.

Everyone hears their 'own' inner voice, their inner dialogue. This is normal.

If someone is hearing other voices telling them to harm themselves or other people, if they believe other people are out to get them or plotting against them, getting frightening delusions, for their own safety and wellbeing medication helps.

I have known people with schizophrenia, who before being medicated, their lives were unbearable. So in this case, medication helps them to function.


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> No no no. Sorry this is total bullshit.
> 
> Everyone hears their 'own' inner voice, their inner dialogue. This is normal.
> 
> ...


Obviously, not EVERYONE hears their thoughts in their own voice. And how is this NOT normal? Not normal for you? Because it's obviously the norm to them. Obviously, the "voice" does not belong to someone else, it IS their own thoughts. If someone thinks a medication helps them, then they should keep taking it. Why not?

Personally, I've never known a "schizophrenic" who was helped by medication. They all still heard the voice, but they were too numbed to care, or they were barely aware enough to think at all. But as I said earlier, people should have full right to their own bodies, and if they want to swallow chemicals, they should be able to.

But... "for their own safety and wellbeing medication helps." How can ANYONE decide what's best for someone else's wellbeing? Communism?

Really, I don't think the public is informed enough about the psychiatry industry.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> Obviously, not EVERYONE hears their thoughts in their own voice. And how is this NOT normal? Not normal for you? Because it's obviously the norm to them. Obviously, the "voice" does not belong to someone else, it IS their own thoughts. If someone thinks a medication helps them, then they should keep taking it. Why not?
> 
> Personally, I've never known a "schizophrenic" who was helped by medication. They all still heard the voice, but they were too numbed to care, or they were barely aware enough to think at all. But as I said earlier, people should have full right to their own bodies, and if they want to swallow chemicals, they should be able to.
> 
> ...


What do you mean hearing their thoughts not in their own voice? Like a different gender or something? Not quite following what you mean. Like people who have DID?

Communism? That's a bit dramatic. I think the mental health system is messed up, and also the psych medication industry. And anti-psychotics are grim, I've been put on them in the past so I know how much they just knock you out and numb you. But if someone is really ill, and is a danger to themselves, then medication is required, unfortunately. It's not ideal, and the amount of drugs that are needed to counteract the side-effects are ridiculous.

People can do their best, and decide what it best for another person, if the psychotic person is too ill to decide what is best for them. If they are in the throws of a delusion and becoming erratic, and putting themseles in danger, should we just leave them to it?


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> What do you mean hearing their thoughts not in their own voice? Like a different gender or something? Not quite following what you mean. Like people who have DID?
> 
> Communism? That's a bit dramatic. I think the mental health system is messed up, and also the psych medication industry. And anti-psychotics are grim, I've been put on them in the past so I know how much they just knock you out and numb you. But if someone is really ill, and is a danger to themselves, then medication is required, unfortunately. It's not ideal, and the amount of drugs that are needed to counteract the side-effects are ridiculous.
> 
> People can do their best, and decide what it best for another person, if the psychotic person is too ill to decide what is best for them. If they are in the throws of a delusion and becoming erratic, and putting themseles in danger, should we just leave them to it?


That's generally what schizophrenia means. Someone who doesn't recognize thoughts as their own. And yes, their thoughts might be in any voice. Kind of like, sometimes when I imagine what my mom might say, I "hear her voice in my head," the difference is I don't actually think my mom is in my head. That could be "mental illness," but who knows? My mom believes there's an invisible man in the sky, who's not just in the sky but everywhere at once, and that he loves her and needs her money. But religion isn't considered a mental illness.

I still don't understand why people are so against self-harm. Shouldn't we be happy that they choose to harm themselves instead of someone else? Personally, I've seen what happens to suicidal people. They end up in a little locked room, strapped to a bed where they can piss and shit themselves, injected with all kinds of pharmaceutical martinis, until they're incapable of feeling anymore. Happens all the time. People that are "sad" are the number one customer of psych wards and mental institutions. "Do you think your life is bad? You don't know how bad it can get..." All because, "Oh, you don't like your life? Too bad. Life sucks. We have to deal with it, so you have to deal with it, too." Really, humans aren't the only species that commit suicide. Any intelligent species that are capable of self awareness can and do. Chimps, gorillas, dolphins, dogs etc. How is it merciful to make someone suffer?

As for self-mutilation, what's wrong with it? My left forearm is covered in burns from cigarettes and lighters. I don't have a problem with it, it only seems to bother other people. And why? What's so wrong with scars? Everybody gets them. There's tribes in Africa that intentionally decorate their entire bodies with them. In fact, in the U.S. there's a new trend of scarring and burning as a new chosen type of body modification, not unlike tattoos and piercings.

Again, not advocating. People are different. I just wish there was more equality and respect in the world.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> People can do their best, and decide what it best for another person, if the psychotic person is too ill to decide what is best for them.


that's your perception. because people label them "mentally ill" because they have such extreme strange thoughts. and they can't imagine that someone actually thinks like that.

a child may can't decide what's best for him/her, so are children mentally ill too?

and this is why they can't cure it. because there's no illness.

there's no evidence that scizophrenia exists (or any other mental illness). it is only diagnosed upon self-reports, upon what an individual says and acts like.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> That's generally what schizophrenia means. Someone who doesn't recognize thoughts as their own. And yes, their thoughts might be in any voice. Kind of like, sometimes when I imagine what my mom might say, I "hear her voice in my head," the difference is I don't actually think my mom is in my head. That could be "mental illness," but who knows? My mom believes there's an invisible man in the sky, who's not just in the sky but everywhere at once, and that he loves her and needs her money. But religion isn't considered a mental illness.
> 
> I still don't understand why people are so against self-harm. Shouldn't we be happy that they choose to harm themselves instead of someone else? Personally, I've seen what happens to suicidal people. They end up in a little locked room, strapped to a bed where they can piss and shit themselves, injected with all kinds of pharmaceutical martinis, until they're incapable of feeling anymore. Happens all the time. People that are "sad" are the number one customer of psych wards and mental institutions. "Do you think your life is bad? You don't know how bad it can get..." All because, "Oh, you don't like your life? Too bad. Life sucks. We have to deal with it, so you have to deal with it, too." Really, humans aren't the only species that commit suicide. Any intelligent species that are capable of self awareness can and do. Chimps, gorillas, dolphins, dogs etc. How is it merciful to make someone suffer?
> 
> ...


Hey, it sounds like you are really deep into self-harm, and it's becoming a part of you. 
I know this, because I used to think the same about cutting, it 'brainwashed' me into thinking it was normal and necessary. But truth is, it's the addiction side of it. 
You really don't have to self-harm, I know that's hard to believe, and I struggle with it a lot. There are other methods to coping with pain and anger. 
Trust me, you are talking about self-harm how I used to, believed that it was 'ok' to do.

Do you mind me asking, how long you've done it for?


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> that's your perception. because people label them "mentally ill" because they have such extreme strange thoughts. and they can't imagine that someone actually thinks like that.
> 
> a child may can't decide what's best for him/her, so are children mentally ill too?
> 
> ...


Are we still on this???
Stop applying you view on DP on every other mental illness, they are completely different! 
Of course psychosis and schizophrenia exist. I have experience with psychosis, so I know what I'm talking about! 
Are you saying people are making it up?

I wrote a long answer to you on the other thread, please read it.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Of course psychosis and schizophrenia exist. *I have experience with psychosis, so I know what I'm talking about!*


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


>


what is that supposed to mean?
i've had episodes of it, as well as DP, why do you have such a problem with it? lol. it's so weird!
also, stop commenting so personally on people's DP/ MH on here when you don't know them personally or what they've been through

if you really want to help people, stop berating them for not getting well, and telling them why they're not. and try and be a bit more understanding.
as i said before, you're projecting your own fears about 'free will' onto other pople and mental illness, and it's no wonder you're pissing people off

and as I said, I don't have DP, so my progress is fine. and i don't believe that everyone has 'free will' and that certain mental illnesses exist.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> as i said before, you're projecting your own fears about 'free will' onto other pople and mental illness, and it's no wonder you're pissing people off












thanks for the laugh

keep crying. call Dreamer and make her write another 10 pages about how mental ilness is studied and all that shit.

You can't help an angry criminal in jail by telling him that his anger is right and what he does is real good and how you feeling his pain. You have to make him realize that he's the reason of his own problems, and that may includes saying things that makes him mad.

Like I said, making an emotional problem into an illness only throwing away responsibility and power.

Why do you think I can make a lot of people here angry easily when I talk about responsibility? Cuz that's what they don't want to hear. They want to hear kind words.

People here beleive they're mentally ill, and writing long sentences that sound intelligent, and coming here everyday for months and years. This is not an illness forum, this is a place where people escape to from their problems.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> thanks for the laugh
> 
> keep crying. call Dreamer and make her write another 10 pages.


I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, and that you maybe mean well and don't communicate well.
I take that back.

Stop worrying about other people's problems, and worry about your own, about your own personality. 
As I said you're projecting, and your views and experiences don't fit other people's and you're manipulating them to suit yourself.

'Keep crying'. 
is that what you say to people on a forum, with people who are obviously going though a hard time?
How is that compassionate?


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> thanks for the laugh
> 
> keep crying. call Dreamer and make her write another 10 pages about how mental ilness is studied and all that shit.
> 
> ...


Omg, how many times to people have to tell you this lol

Ok so again.
There is a difference between anger and schizophrenia. Anger is an emotional reaction. Schizophrenia is a chemical imbalance.

I will back you up on your views about DP not being a mental illness, an emotional reaction, that with help and therapy can get better. Also DP and anger are two different things.
I had DP for 20 years, since I was a kid, and many people on here too, Dreamer is a long timer. So it's not as easy as just facing fears, it's engrained in their mind for as long as they can remember.

Berating people are goading them is not going to help. Many people have DP from abuse/ trauma, not just panic attacks etc. 
So if you are goading someone about their DP you could be triggering feeling about abuse/ shame and in fact making it worse.
So be more gentle and compassionate


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, and that you maybe mean well and don't communicate well.
> I take that back.
> 
> Stop worrying about other people's problems, and worry about your own, about your own personality.
> ...


who said I want to be compassionate?

I want to HELP! but a lot of them prefers someone who says kind things than someone who tells them to STAND THE FUCK UP!

and feel free to continue trying to talk bullshit about me like projecting and others, also feel free to use swear words, I won't get mad and won't report you or anything. don't effect me the slightest bit.

there was also a panic anxiety forum where I had to delete my account because a few people started to hate me after I said that I got out from panic attack without meds and was trying to convince people NOT to take meds for panic and anxiety. A few of them showed intense anger towards me, they started to attack me personally (like Dreamer and you do here). They just, as a group, accepted that they "need medicine" because it's "so hard". It takes less courage and strength to believe in that than to ask yourself "what if I really do something wrong?". It's not neccessarily being weak, in my case it was a positive thing. I though I was guilty for the way I feel.

I don't have any insecurities about "free will". The reason I came up with that is simple : if you believe in free will, you have to take responsibility, if you don't, then just ask the "chemicals" in your brain to have mercy.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Omg, how many times to people have to tell you this lol
> 
> Ok so again.
> There is a difference between anger and schizophrenia. Anger is an emotional reaction. Schizophrenia is a chemical imbalance.










we'll never agree

when I posted something you don't like, you got angry, therefore the "chemical balance" in your brain changed. is that mean that I'm a medicine too?

if you believe in matter over mind, anger is also a "chemical imbalance". how can you call one emotion an emotion, and another a "chemical imbalance". you call "chemical imbalance" what you wan't to deny.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> who said I want to be compassionate?
> 
> I want to HELP! but a lot of them prefers someone who says kind things than someone who tells them to STAND THE FUCK UP!
> 
> ...


For a lot of people DP/DR stems from abuse ok. Sexual, physical or emotional.

So when you berate them with 'STAND THE FUCK UP', you could well be triggering abuse/ shame in that person. Which in turn might make them worse. Please keep this in mind.

Also, many on here have co-morbid problems such as self-harm, personality disorders, eating disorders, depression, identity issues, psychosis etc. As I said in the other thread.

Me and you may have had the same symptoms, but they came from different experiences in our lives, for different reasons, and for different lenth of time.

As I told you in the other thread, people get DP for many different reasons, it's the same feeling and symptoms, just from a different place.

So, you are applying your own experiences of DP onto other people. 
I recovered my own way, what works for me, may not work for other people. And people recover at their own pace.
If they want to get better or not, is up to them. They may not be ready, or have to face up to other issues first.

Ok, yet again here is the difference. 
Anger is an emotional reaction to something, right? If could be a sudden reaction, or if you have a chronic problem with it, it's left over from childhood issues perhaps. Well, imo, chronic anger is a secondary emotion to pain.

Ok, now a totally 100% emotionally healthy person can get schizophrenia as it's a chemical imbalance, could be caused by drugs, brain injury or it's an illness like a physical one.
If someone you knew and cared about was getting delusions that the government was after them or that Demons were talking to them, and they were being a danger to themselves, not looking after themselves, and it was causing them a lot of distress. What would you do? Would you let them live their lives in this terror? Tell them to get over it?


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> If someone you knew and cared about was getting delusions that the government was after them or that Demons were talking to them, and they were being a danger to themselves, not looking after themselves, and it was causing them a lot of distress. What would you do? Would you let them live their lives in this terror? Tell them to get over it?


I never said once that it is possible to "simpy get over DP",...

fuck it I don't respond.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

Wow a lot of ignorant comments here......


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Hey, it sounds like you are really deep into self-harm, and it's becoming a part of you.
> I know this, because I used to think the same about cutting, it 'brainwashed' me into thinking it was normal and necessary. But truth is, it's the addiction side of it.
> You really don't have to self-harm, I know that's hard to believe, and I struggle with it a lot. There are other methods to coping with pain and anger.
> Trust me, you are talking about self-harm how I used to, believed that it was 'ok' to do.
> ...


Hey, Violet. I haven't "self-harmed" in over 3 years. I haven't wanted to, so I haven't. If I did, I would. My body, my personal choice. If women can legally get abortions because it's their body, why don't we have that right in every regard?

And if you want to feel guilt and shame over your choices, go ahead. I won't.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> Hey, Violet. I haven't "self-harmed" in over 3 years. I haven't wanted to, so I haven't. If I did, I would. My body, my personal choice. If women can legally get abortions because it's their body, why don't we have that right in every regard?
> 
> And if you want to feel guilt and shame over your choices, go ahead. I won't.


Oh man, I am not getting into this. I've played this game with other people too. 
C'mon, there's a difference between getting piercings, tattoos and even getting an abortion.
Those aren't deliberate attempts to punish/ harm yourself by burning/ cutting your own skin. 
No-one forces us not to do it, and people don't look down on us for having scars. 
I think it's fear or confusion, in all honesty, because they can't understand how someone could harm themselves.
In reality, there are no positives to self-harm.


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Are we still on this???
> Stop applying you view on DP on every other mental illness, they are completely different!
> Of course psychosis and schizophrenia exist. I have experience with psychosis, so I know what I'm talking about!
> Are you saying people are making it up?
> ...


Personally, I've been labeled with all kinds of "mental illnesses". Bipolar, borderline, ptsd, anxiety, depression, ADD, OCD, and dp/dr. Not to mention, times I quit taking my medicine abruptly, I've temporarily hallucinated, I've "heard a voice", and I've felt itchy. I was deep in the mental health system, and I walked away. I never said that these "conditions" as you might call them, aren't real. I just don't think they're a mental "illness". In any case, there really isn't enough "proof" of mental illness, for it to be advertised as fact. An illness is defined as "a DISEASE of the body or mind." A disease is defined as "A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms" and "A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful."


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Oh man, I am not getting into this. I've played this game with other people too.
> C'mon, there's a difference between getting piercings, tattoos and even getting an abortion.
> Those aren't deliberate attempts to punish/ harm yourself by burning/ cutting your own skin.
> No-one forces us not to do it, and people don't look down on us for having scars.
> ...


I really have trouble understanding how someone could be against a human having full rights over their own body. It is, without a doubt, one of the most basic rights.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> I really have trouble understanding how someone could be against a human having full rights to their own body. It is, without a doubt, one of the most basic rights.


If someone is posing a risk to themselves, with self-harm etc, you think poeple shoulnd't intervene and leave them to it?


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> If someone is posing a risk to themselves, with self-harm etc, you think poeple shoulnd't intervene and leave them to it?


We're running in circles. Yes, I don't think we should. As much as people like to think of suicide as just an irrational decision, it's usually not. Your mentality seems to be "It can get better." But no, that's not true. It always gets worse by the end. We have a basic animal instinct to want to survive. But we are also intelligent and self-aware. It takes a lot of willpower to overcome that instinct. For someone to do that, it seems they must have a good reason, or a least a reason good to them. And besides, these bodies aren't made to last forever, and when you're dead you're dead. Hmmm, I am curious what your political and religious beliefs are.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

So if DP isn't a mental illness, then what is it?


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> We're running in circles. Yes, I don't think we should. As much as people like to think of suicide as just an irrational decision, it's usually not. Your mentality seems to be "It can get better." But no, that's not true. It always gets worse by the end. We have a basic animal instinct to want to survive. But we are also intelligent and self-aware. It takes a lot of willpower to overcome that instinct. For someone to do that, it seems they must have a good reason, or a least a reason good to them. And besides, these bodies aren't made to last forever, and when you're dead you're dead. Hmmm, I am curious what your political and religious beliefs are.


I get where you are coming from totally. I used to believe this too. But I've recovered quite a bit from self-harm and things like that, so my mentality has changed.

I don't know at the moment. I'm an atheist and not sure about political.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

gill said:


> So if DP isn't a mental illness, then what is it?


there's no "it". these are your feelings, and not "depersonalization disorder". it's only a label someone attached to a group of "symptoms" people reported.

if you're in DP, you're not crazy. the craziness starts when you think you're ill.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> But I've recovered quite a bit from self-harm and things like that


"Recovering" from self-harm is like "recovering" from being a criminal. Self-harm is an act, like robbing a bank is an act.


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

gill said:


> So if DP isn't a mental illness, then what is it?


I think it's a change in perception. You read my other post, I think it's a possibilty it's Anandamide, but who knows? If left untreated it's not harmful, so I don't believe it should be catagorized as an "illness". Why does it happen? I don't know. But it does happen, apparently to everyone sometimes.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> "Recovering" from self-harm is like "recovering" from being a criminal. Self-harm is an act, like robbing a bank is an act.


Lowrey, don't even go there. You don't know me. or what self-harm is like, ok?

You do recover from it, as it becomes a part of you, and it's not as easy as just stopping. it takes years of work.


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> I get where you are coming from totally. I used to believe this too. But I've recovered quite a bit from self-harm and things like that, so my mentality has changed.
> 
> I don't know at the moment. I'm an atheist and not sure about political.


lol an atheist? Ohhhh! I thought you might say christian lol. Anyway, if your mentality has changed and you're happy, cool. That's awesome. Really though, I don't see it as a "mentality," more like personal opinion. Everyone's entitled to them. Doesn't mean you should be able to force them on others.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Lowrey, don't even go there. You don't know me. or what self-harm is like, ok?
> 
> You do recover from it, as it becomes a part of you, and it's not as easy as just stopping. it takes years of work.


self-harm is when you harm yourself, isn't it? so you think that's an illness too, right?

you know what's my problem today? I want to be successful and rich, but sometimes I catch myself sleeping till 11 AM. Can you recommend a doctor who can cure me? do you know any pill? or do you know the name of it? like.. oversleeping disorder? or laziness disorder? don't even try to tell me to have more willpower because it's really a chemical imbalance, you don't know what I'm going through.

feel free to click the minus sign


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> there's no "it". these are your feelings, and not "depersonalization disorder". it's only a label someone attached to a group of "symptoms" people reported.
> 
> if you're in DP, you're not crazy. the craziness starts when you think you're ill.


You're totally right. My dp/dr, at the core, started because of anxiety (from worrying about non-mental health things while really high), and my mind seemed to just stay that way, high. Over time, I've stopped worrying about it. Stopped thinking I was ill, that I was going crazy (which I worried about in the beginning). Now I'm content, happy. My perception is different than it used to be, but I don't think I need to be fixed by psychiatrists. Tried it, didn't work. If someone else wants to try that. I think they should be able to. I also think the public needs to know more about what exactly it is they're taking, and made understood the risks. But, if someone doesn't want to take it, they shouldn't have to. The risk of permanent side effects are too severe and debilitating to be justified to be for their own good.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

I think you guys are splitting hairs here with the word 'illness'. Illness is a pretty vague term. Just look at this definition: " an unhealthy condition of body or mind " -webster. So we have perceptions/feelings which I think everyone on here would agree are unhealthy, so people look for solutions...


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> self-harm is when you harm yourself, isn't it? so you think that's an illness too, right?
> 
> you know what's my problem today? I want to be successful and rich, but sometimes I catch myself sleeping till 11 AM. Can you recommend a doctor who can cure me? do you know any pill? or do you know the name of it? like.. oversleeping disorder? or laziness disorder? don't even try to tell me to have more willpower because it's really a chemical imbalance, you don't know what I'm going through.
> 
> feel free to click the minus sign


No it's not an illness, it's a coping mechanism. A way to punish yourself, deal with painful feelings/ memories/ emotions etc.
If you do it for a long period of time, it becomes a huge problem, and for some it ends up badly.

It's not simply a case of you just pick up a knife and harm yourself for no reason. There are complex problems underneath (abuse etc) that causes it. Much like DP!
So as I said before, when you are talking about certain issues- self-harm, DP, there could be abuse issues attached. This is why I tell you to be more gentle.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

WHY said:


> You're totally right. My dp/dr, at the core, started because of anxiety, and anxiety made it uncomfortable. Over time, I've stopped worrying about it. Stopped thinking I was ill, that I was going crazy, Now I'm content, happy. And without all those chemicals in my body from medication I feel even better. It could be a side effect of stress. Again, doesn't mean it's an "illness".


I think it happens when the emotions are so strong (or too bottled-up) that you simply starts to fear them. That's when it becomes a terrible condition, and that's when it becomes self-perpetuating. And that's when you may feel you're in a doom, and that's when you start to create all kinds of irrational stupid fears (there's no limit to a creative mind when it comes to creating fears). That's also when the physical symptoms feel so disconnected from any possible cause that you're starting to think you have an "illness".

I think DP/anxiety is a gift. It shows you how stupid most of our fears are.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> So as I said before, when you are talking about certain issues- self-harm, DP, there could be abuse issues attached. This is why I tell you to be more gentle.


you know and I know that it's not the way I say it, it's WHAT I say what matters.

I said the same thing in the most gentle way possible in an other thread 2 weeks ago, and still got a reaction that I'm "offensive". well, then keep eating your pills.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> you know and I know that it's not the way I say it, it's WHAT I say what matters.
> 
> I said the same thing in the most gentle way possible in an other thread 2 weeks ago, and still got a reaction that I'm "offensive". well, then keep eating your pills.


I don't take pills. 
Maybe you need to take on board why so many people are getting pissed off. As I said, you could be aggrivating something painful.


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## gill (Jul 1, 2010)

Ah, and out comes the real argument. It's not whether you call DP an 'illness', 'disorder', 'problem', 'issue', or 'weird perception', which is pretty irrelevant. It's whether or not a drug can help the condition.....


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

.........


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

gill said:


> Ah, and out comes the real argument. It's not whether you call DP an 'illness', 'disorder', 'problem', 'issue', or 'weird perception', which is pretty irrelevant. It's whether or not a drug can help the condition.....


lol indeed!


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

gill said:


> Ah, and out comes the real argument. It's not whether you call DP an 'illness', 'disorder', 'problem', 'issue', or 'weird perception', which is pretty irrelevant. It's whether or not a drug can help the condition.....


Although, I don't like it being called "illness" because that implies it can and should be treated. The recommended way, and often involuntary way, is using pharmaceutical drugs. I think people are being mislead and misinformed. Case in point, the video link I left in the original post.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2011)

WHY said:


> I don't like it being called "illness" because that implies it can and should be treated. The recommended way, and often involuntary way, is using pharmaceutical drugs. I think people are being mislead and misinformed. Case in point, the video link I left in the original post.


exactly what I'm trying to say. don't even try to twist it. when people call it "illness", they ARENT talking about 'problem', 'issue', or 'weird perception', they talk about "some body stuff" that they need a medicine for. that's what you think about when you hear "illness".

and that way you can never "cure" "DP". because you still sit like "it's not my fault, help me!". well, it's not your FAULT, but YOU'RE doing it.


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## violetgirl (Apr 11, 2011)

WHY said:


> *I don't like it being called "illness" because that implies it can and should be treated*. The recommended way, and often involuntary way, is using pharmaceutical drugs. I think people are being mislead and misinformed. Case in point, the video link I left in the original post.


Am I misunderstanding you, or do you not think DP should not be cured?


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

Lowrey said:


> exactly what I'm trying to say. don't even try to twist it. when people call it "illness", they ARENT talking about 'problem', 'issue', or 'weird perception', they talk about "some body stuff" that they need a medicine for. that's what you think about when you hear "illness".


What I think is interesting, is according to "symptoms" in DSM, anyone could be accused of having one mental illness or another. So really, if it's that common, why say it's not normal? Because apparently it is.


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## WHY (Jun 20, 2011)

violetgirl said:


> Am I misunderstanding you, or do you not think DP should not be cured?


What I am saying is how many people have been "cured" of a mental "illness"? As is, there is no cure, any doctor will tell you that. They can't treat a disease they can't find and isolate. A psychiatrist can only try to treat the symptoms of the so-called "illness". As is, medication is an experiment, and without the ability to isolate, a risky one at that.

Do I think someone should be able to take medicine if they want to? Yes, although in its' current state, I think it should be discouraged rather than encouraged. Most are taught to blindly trust authority, and a confident doctor can more easily sway the desperate. If anything, doctors should be neutral. All the information laid out, all questions answered, without any prejudice either way.

If, someday, there was a test and a cure, do I think people should be able to try it if they want to? Yes.


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## EverDream (Dec 15, 2006)

Lowrey said:


> Why do you think I can make a lot of people here angry easily when I talk about responsibility? Cuz that's what they don't want to hear. They want to hear kind words.


It's because you are an idiot, that's all.


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