# How is it a serotonin deficiency if 3 SSRI's did no good?



## Guest (Dec 8, 2005)

My dad, researcher extraordinaire, has found this book called The Edge Effect, in which you take a survey, and based on the results it will tell you which neurotransmitters are the problem causers. According to my results, I am deficient in serotonin. However, I have been on three SSRI's, none of which have improved my situation, and in two cases actually made my mood swing horrendously. I've also been told to take inositol powder as it supposedly increases serotonin production. I've NEVER felt worse! Maybe there's something I'm not understanding from a chemical standpoint, but I can't help but think that maybe another neurotransmitter is to blame??? So confused...


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

the 3 usual suspects are Serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine...so maybe it isn't serotonin in your case. I tried Wellbutrin cuz it works on dopamine not serotonin, but lasted only a week on it cuz it made my anxiety much worse. a really good book is by Dr. Daniel Amen (he scanned the brains of thousands of patients using SPECT technology.) his book explains how not all depression is serotonin related and based on your quiz results (yep, another quiz) you can tell what region of the brain is affected/what medication you might need. it even explains how certain depressed people can be made worse if given a serotgenic med. dunno, maybe it's worth looking into...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BO ... s&v=glance


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Yes! Thank you god! Somebody else on here is reading and recommending Dr. Amen. There's hope for all of us. Arczi, I hope you read this - what meds did the Tacoma Washington Clinic put you on? Arczi is the only other DP person (myself being one) I know of who has had a SPECT scan. Oh, and nemesis, I beleive. It too had temporal lobe abnormalities. And he flew there from Poland, so I've got to give him credit.....

Peace
Homeskooled


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

SSRIs have done nothing for me--nothing had done anything for me, until I tried Wellbutrin, a few years ago, to quit smoking. And for several _months_ I was more alive than I had been in decades. That trial ended, for various reasons, and I have not been able to duplicate these results, with Wellbutrin, again. But I will try again, with Wellbutrin again (could the delivery system make any difference?) and am looking forward to the selegiline patch (trade name EMSAM if it ever gets approved). So yea, if seratonergic drugs dont help, domaminergic drugs, like Wellbutrin, may. For many, increased anxiety is a problem, but with an eye out for this, it may be worth a shot.


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2005)

Homeskooled have you posted about your spect (?) and your meds? I'm thinking of getting an anxiety med for the next few stressful months, but they don't work right away and I'm not keen on meds as a rule.
Since you're feeling better, I'd like to know what worked for you, please.
Someone recommended Amen's site so I went there a few days ago. I'm guessing a spect is pricey.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

dalailama15 said:


> .For many, increased anxiety is a problem, but with an eye out for this, it may be worth a shot.


hey dl,
I knew going into it that increased anxiety is an issue, that's not exactly why i stopped taking it. it was on days 6 & 7 of the Wellbutrin that I started to get these high pitched piercing noises in my ears accompanied with major ear altitude-like pressure. it started to freak me out after like the 8th time it happened. did you ever have anything like that on Wellbutrin? just curious, cuz i often wonder if i should've stuck it out a bit longer.

rula


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## dalailama15 (Aug 13, 2004)

hi rula

Nope, I have had no problems at all with Wellbutrin, except that it now seems to do nothing at all. By the way, I bought that Amen/Routh book and it is pretty good. From the SPECT scans, they have come up with seven separate types of depression/anxiety, each with its own related brain system anomalies. Types 6 and 7 ("temporal lobe" and "unfocused A&D") are made _worse_ by SSRIs. And for types 2 ("Pure Depression") and 7, the types that I most closely match, recommended meds include bupropion (Wellbutrin) and "stimulating antidepressants."

What a concept, actually using some actual data to refine therapeutic choices, as opposed to the usual "What kind of therapy do you want" docs, or the "pick one out of the hat and come back in a month" docs.

Anyway, from what I know (little) and from my experience, negative physical reactions to Wellbutrin are not usual, and are probably significant, that is, probably not to be ignored.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

dalailama15 said:


> What a concept, actually using some actual data to refine therapeutic choices,
> as opposed to the usual "What kind of therapy do you want" docs, or the "pick one out of the hat and come back in a month" docs.


radical concept huh? but at the same time Dr. Amen's work is largely critisized by his collegues because radiation therapy is not what anyone in their right mind would call safe or ready for clinical use. Unless you're running a clinic and making tons of money of course. so this time it would be more like "let me inject you with some radioactive material that takes days to decay, fix your problem today, but years down the road you might like get cancer" doc.

but then again, I fall into the "temporal lobe anxiety" camp, so maybe this is just the paranoia symptom manifesting itself... :lol:


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Okay, Rula, but it isnt radiation therapy. Thats a field called oncology. Its a radioactive tracer. You get less radiation from a SPECT study than from a head CT, which, unfortunately, is what most docs order first when someone describes DP and "weird feelings in my head".

And there's one other wrinkle - they've found that people exposed to radiation actually have LESS of a rate of cancer than people who were not exposed. Hiroshima's survivors and people who live in areas of the country with large amounts of radon each show this trait. The explanation? When exposed to radiation, our cells produce their own more potent anticancer agents and their own antioxidants. It works kind of like vaccination. If you dont use an objective test in psychiatry, as in all other medical disciplines, you'll never get anywhere. PET and SPECT, or their successors, are the wave of the future in psychiatry, much like X-rays are to dentistry.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2005)

Homeskooled said:


> And there's one other wrinkle - they've found that people exposed to radiation actually have LESS of a rate of cancer than people who were not exposed. Hiroshima's survivors and people who live in areas of the country with large amounts of radon each show this trait. The explanation? When exposed to radiation, our cells produce their own more potent anticancer agents and their own antioxidants. It works kind of like vaccination.
> 
> Peace
> Homeskooled


Who funded THAT study, the manufacturers of x-ray equipment?


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Haha....no, I wish. Its just a plain old study done to evaluate the effects of large doses of radiation on humans. I'll see if I can dig it up, but its been replicated so much that its just considered a fact. The miliatary probably ran one, as the US and Russians ran the most radiation exposure experiments. An odd fact, but a fact nonetheless.

Peace
homeskooled


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2005)

But isn't that contrary to popular belief and a lot of other studies?


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

beachgirl said:


> Who funded THAT study, the manufacturers of x-ray equipment?


You beat me to it beachgirl! 

homeskooled, I'd love to see those links, please do dig 'em up if you can. btw, none of the 6 or 7 doctors I've seen so far ever ordered a CT Scan, nor would I ever get one, they just give out pills. I know it's a risk vs benefits thing, but the idea of radioactive isotopes decaying in my body for almost a week doesn't sound like a _vaccine_ I care for.

Dr. Zametkin of the National Institute of Mental Health thinks that PET scans, which I'm sure you know are much safer than SPECT, are still not safe enough to use clinically. Maybe he hasn't heard of the vaccine theory?


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Rula, 
If you havent complained of a headache, they wont order a CT for you. If you complain of a headache for visual symptoms, you'll either be prescribed migraine medicine or given a CT, especially if your DR doesnt respond to the migraine meds. I bet if you ask Dr. Zametkin if CT scans are safe, though, he'd say yes. So I wouldnt worry that they only have 30x the radiation of a SPECT scan - I dont give the the National Institutes of Mental Health a whole lot of credit for advancing the field. I doubt that he beleives in adrenal fatigue, either....Here's two links. You need more, just let me know. One is from my university, the University of Pittsburgh School of Public Health, the other is an abstract from Kyoto, Japan.

http://www.haciendapub.com/article50.html

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/radioadaptive/inthorm.html

I wouldnt have said it unless I had read it.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2005)

Homeskooled, why aren't you in med skool? The med. prof. really needs people who can relate to patients' symptoms. All the doctors I know socially, have never had real problems so they can never be really proficient at their jobs because they don't "believe" in certain things/symptoms.


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Homeskooled said:


> I wouldnt have said it unless I had read it.


Dear David,
I wasn't implying that you're making it up. It's just that before I personally subscribe to something that's so contrary to popular belief, I have to see some credible evidence. This is the conclusion of the study from the 2nd site you listed:

Based on results obtained in studies on high background radiation areas, high levels of natural radiation* may* have some bio-positive effects such as enhancing radiation-resistance. More research is needed to assess if these bio-positive effects have any implication in radiation protection (Mortazavi et al. 2001)

Sorry if I'm not sold yet.

Still, imho, being suddenly injected with radioactive isotopes doesn't compare to the constant exposure to natural radiation that Dr. Mortazavi was studying. Very interesting though of course. Thanks for the links.

-rula


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