# Here to help..



## argenys

Hello,

My name is pascual, i suffered from dp/dr for six years.

I sometimes come in here and just read, never joined, but alot of my friends come here, and i just feel soo bad, because they are all getting the wrong help.

I'm going to start off by saying that this is not a discussion, nor an argument, im just here to help and onces i do that, i will leave this place,

Now, i have recovered, from years and years of pain and suffering, dp/dr 24/7............and there is no secret to this, i have read some of the stuff you guys come up with and i just laugh, but i also understand, because being in this "state" can make you think weird stuff, but none of the so called "conclsusions" are real, dp/dr first of all is a defence mechanism, when one is anxiuos, now when one is anxiuos you assume his personality is anxiuos, now when you get dp/dr you feel overwhelm with fear, hopelessness, and don't know where to turn, this defence mechanis,m has taking a wrong turn for you, the first thing you do is run to "pills"...benzo's, SSRI's, well ive got news for you guy's, these pills are what are keeping the dp/dr active and alive, ok now you say, but when i come off i still fell the same.....well, you guys have to know how these brain altering drugs work, your brain quemicals arent 4 small tubes , that one carries serotnin, the other dopamine, the other gaba...No, your brain is the most complicated thing in the universe, by messing with one quemical you mess with all of them, they are in constant communication, your brain is not a simple thing, that you can ad benzos and say it will be alright, your brain doesnt know what a benzo is, and it will recive it as an intrudor, and anyhting you oput in your mouth, you will NEVER recover if you are taking meds........Now, first you ahve to know ewhat i have just told you.....

Ok now dp/dr is there basically because of fear, put an example of someone who is affraid of spiders, this person cannot function if he sees a spider, but what would happened if someone locked this person up in a room full of spiders?.....wouldnt this person feel like they are dying?.....well thats how you feel i bet......well, what if you forced this person to stay in that room for a long period of time.....2 years maybe?.......do you think she will be affraid of a simple spider when she sees one in the streets?............thats up to you to figure out........what im trying to say, is that dp/dr will go away, even if youscared of it, the subconciuos fear you ahve of it will leave, but if you put quemicals in your brain, like benzos and this and that, you will never let your brain deal with it, for years i took benzos and ssri's and not one day on them was i dp/dr free.....the only time recovered was when i stopped them.....i speak to many people who have recovered from this, and (none come here BTW).....and they all recovered onces they got off the pills, All of them,..

another thing is that, the withdrawal from all these pills takes up to 2 years, so if in 5 months its not gone, dont get discouraged, because it takes time for your brain to gte back to its homeostasis.

so, if you want to gte better, get off the pills, and give it time to heal from the mess these meds have done.....and the original fear will be gone, you will wonder why you were taking these pills in the first pl;ace....now, im talking about secondary dp/dr, not primary, i think those who have primary would benefit from therapy, but all you drug induced dp'rs, wake up you are doing this to yourself, your brain wants you to stop putting stuff in there, i wouldnt even take a tylenol.............all pills are bad, your brain sees them as intrudors, and shoots down certain funtions on its own.....

take care

and this is not an argument, this is only to help...who ever wants to take my advice go ahead...who doesnt...then stick with yourself......and another thing..is that you guys have to stop coming here too often

peace

Pascual


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## university girl

Hey, thanks for your opinion. It was brave of you to post something and be so sure of yourself. I wish you all the best!


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## argenys

well, i don't see why brave?...........honestly i don't, being sarcastic to someone who wants to help is brave.

read your sig line and you are an executive director at the so called drug induced dissosiative disorder studies?.......the good thing is that its a non profit orginazation, but what kinda of treatment are you guys providing?....or is it to "creat" a new treatment?........i'm just curios.

another thing is that i know exactly what im talking about, i know exactly how meds can ruin someone, do some research, read some of dr peter breggings stuff......read on how psychiatry has ruined people.

Me personaly....i don't loose anyhting from telling everyone that the pills are the problem, im just trying to help, ive got many friends who have come out of this clean, and ALL o them from quitting drugs, drugs that were messing them up...well anyways.........

Take care everyone, i hope you all recover from this terrible terrible thing.

Pascual


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## David Kozin

The purpose of the organization is to develop ties in the research community, for example Dr. Daphne Simeon is on our Advisory Board, and to develop the steps neccessary to bring awareness of the disorders to lead to future funding. Our initial focus was on drug-induced disorders, however we are finding a common cause with DP and DR in both instances. We learn from contrast and we develop stronger data as a union.

Although, there is a split on this board at times between drug-induced and non-drug induced disorders, our organization helps both groups despite the main goal is to bring information on drug-induced DP,DR, and other symptoms of drug-use. Some individuals may judge individuals who has drug-indued DP as lesser or as it is their fault, but for some of these individuals there parents where supplying barbituates and medications at age 7 and drug use was not understood to these children. I know of individuals providing anti-psychotics, amphetamines, etc. to their children to help them instead of working through the problem. Not everyone comes from families that are drug-free, and having families with mentally ill parents or drug-abusing parents the "choice" of taking drugs for a teenager is very nebulous at best.

As our organization develops, we are moving to cover Depersonalization and Derealization that is not even drug-induced, as we feel it is important to be advocates to groups with a common cause. *We have a common struggle.*

The following is our current formal mission:

The National Organization of Drug-Induced Disorders (NODID) is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization with the primary goal of providing advocacy for individuals suffering from disorders caused from psychoactive substances.

Recognizing a need for an organization specifically geared towards this often forgotten patient population, the National Organization of Drug-Induced Disorders was formed in 2004. The National Organization of Drug-Induced Disorders consists of researchers, clinicians, and individuals dedicated to our mission. NODID was created in response to the frustration and sense of isolation experienced by individuals with drug-induced disorders. NODID is dedicated to providing a definitive, accessible source for current, medically accurate information on the treatment and prevention of drug-induced psychiatric disorders.

NODID will offer information and advocacy to patients and their families as they seek help from the medical profession. Also, NODID will offer a forum for clinicians and researchers to exchange information and develop more effective treatment and research strategies to meet this growing challenge. We believe that, through knowledge sharing and gaining a more complete understanding of these illnesses and the drugs that cause them, effective treatment and recovery can be achieved. In addition, we will be uniquely able to disseminate accurate information aimed at preventing the patterns of drug abuse linked most closely to drug-induced disorders.

Mission

The mission of the National Organization of Drug-Induced Disorders is to contribute to the understanding of and the prevention and cure of disorders caused from psychoactive substance use. This will be accomplished through innovative research and providing resources for medical professional, sufferers, and the public to promote education and awareness of drug-induced disorders.

From the group analyzing our research data:
*










MOUNT SINAI SCHOOL OF MEDICINE

Depersonalization and Dissociation Research Program*

The depersonalization and dissociation research program is dedicated to studying the phenomenology, etiology and treatment of dissociative disorders, primarily depersonalization disorder. The program has an interdisciplinary approach to the study of depersonalization, and includes descriptive, biological, neuropsychological and treatment studies.
Diagnosis and Assessment

Participants in our studies receive an extensive initial evaluation involving diagnostic and neuropsychological assessments, as well as reviewing background and history that are combined to confirm the patient's diagnostic and current functional status. We are also studying different diagnostic tools to assess depersonalization disorder.
Phenomenology and Etiology

We are collecting data in an ongoing way about the different phenomenological aspects of the syndrome of depersonalization, including variations in symptomatology, types of onset, factors alleviating and exacerbating the symptoms, co-morbid disorders and course of treatments.
Medication Treatment Studies

The Program offers pharmacological treatment trials. Preliminary data suggest that some patients do improve with pharmacological treatment of depersonalization. The results of these studies will hopefully help us find an effective pharmacological treatment for this serious and chronic illness for which there is currently no approved treatment choice.
Neuropsychology

Using an extensive battery of neuropsychological tests, the Program is studying the cognitive mechanisms that are involved in depersonalization. In particular, depersonalization subjects can manifest significant impairments in certain types of attention and memory, while retaining an overall intact level of intellectual functioning. These are in the process of being further investigated.
Biological Studies

Biological and cognitive profiles relating to the "stress response" are currently under study. This study involves a 2-day stay in an inpatient research unit at Mount Sinai.
Individual and Group Psychotherapy

The Program is in midst of designing psychotherapy protocols that will focus on the efficacy of psychotherapies for depersonalization.

Dr. Daphne Simeon
Primary Investigator
Mount Sinai School of Medicine
Department of Psychiatry

All my best,

David Kozin


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## argenys

Well i wish this study the best.............if it's to help people then you guy's are awesome...........

I hope this study brings happiness to everyone here, but the truth i know, i am dp/dr free, i can enjoy life, i can feel again, i can go anywhere, i can listen to music freely and watch whatever i want, being quemical free has permited me to live like this.

no wonder...lol.......my friends in this place havent recovered, they are being seen as guinee pigs............


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## university girl

university girl said:


> Hey, thanks for your opinion. It was brave of you to post something and be so sure of yourself. I wish you all the best!


Hey there,

Sorry if my comment offended you. I am not being sarcastic. I just know that these types of posts can stir up such controversy. I hope Daivd answered your questions for you. Best to you.


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## Guest

argenys said:


> Hello,
> 
> My name is pascual, i suffered from dp/dr for six years.
> 
> I sometimes come in here and just read, never joined, but alot of my friends come here, and i just feel soo bad, because they are all getting the wrong help.
> 
> I'm going to start off by saying that this is not a discussion, nor an argument, im just here to help and onces i do that, i will leave this place,
> 
> Now, i have recovered, from years and years of pain and suffering, dp/dr 24/7............and there is no secret to this, i have read some of the stuff you guys come up with and i just laugh,
> 
> Pascual


That's kind of a strange post. What kind of person would laugh at others suffering from something they claimed they had for six years? Why do you claim to know so many people with dp? 
I'm not pro-drug, either, but I don't agree with you or your attitude.
You sound like an ignorant person who's never had dp. In fact, you sound like a flake in this post.
Either you neglected to include some pertinent info about yourself or you're what I just described. To me, you lack validity and I won't bother to read any more of your posts.


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## argenys

hey hun....yeah i laguh because of some of the conclusions that some people here come up with.....like ive heard people talk about how they believe that people who have dp./dr have not connected there mind body and soul........people who have dp/dr because our minds are in contstant contact with the unvirse ands tuff like tyhat...or the one post that said that dp/dr is caused by flauresent lights.....lol....i still laugh...because i also made those mistakes, i used to think dp/dr was something very misteriuos and weird and there was something very compluicated about it....but onces you come out, you realise that all those thoguhts were Billshit, onces you come off the drugs......you give your brain time..and then you slowly start to come out.........things will soon have edges, something i hadent seen in years......everything was flat.......i also felt like my thoguhts did not connect with my other 5 sences, i would wonder how my arms and legs moved with my thoguhts, voices and noices would seem to come from everywhere, when i was about to fall asleep i would constantly be jolted awake, nothing was real, i could not enjoy anything........i got it from a bad mushroom trip...i had some flashbacks after going on a drinking bindch....if anyone knows what sufferinbg is..its me....the night i got this...i prayed to god that it would go away when i woke up..and it never did....every morning i would wake up hoping and praying, and nothing, i turned into an alcoholic...i took huge amounts of benzos...i took paxil........i was in hell hun...soo please dont go saying i dont know..i know more then you hun........for 6 years constant 24/7.....not one second of reliefe.............i think you need to start listening to me...if you ewant to recover hun........i know what i went throguh..an i hate to see others this way.....take care

Pascual


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## argenys

oh and yes i do know many people..ive spent literally hundreds of hours speaking to people via phone................helping and changing thoguhts.....i always tell them not to come to this forum...because of posts like yours...people that just dont want to listen............around where i live theres abiout 2 people...and they all recovered....zero drugs, zero pills, zero alchol, and zero coffe, sugars.....and anyhting stimualting......there minds soon settle down...and they start to come out to reality...and the feeling is beautifull....almsot like an enlightment........i used to visit the yahho board, but stopped because i started to notice that the more i would go to these sites..the worst i would get
...........so suit yourself hun....believe what you want..................its not like im asking for peopel to TAKE drugs...its to STOP them...ofcoures with the advice of a doctors...and slowly.....c/t is never reecomneded.........im not a bad guy hun.....im here to help...

Pascual


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## ShyTiger

Interesting post. Just wanted to comment on your spider therory thou. If you place a spider phobic person in a room full of spiders it is called flooding. Flooding is a method in which phobias can be reduced but can have some serious consequences. It can completly shut down an individual and actually cause them to become sensatised to the elliciting stimulus. Meaning the individual can become even more terrified of spiders using that example. If you are to use that tequnique you have to wait until anxiety reduces to then remove the person. Two years may have traumatised that person so much that they are now not only fearfull of spiders but of small rooms, or rooms of the same color. Why use a method that that has so many possible complications? I never found flooding myself worked for me, and yes i have tryed it!
I found a better method in desensatisation and working on my thoughts ect.

Re: Fluro lighting may not be the cause of dp however it can be a trigger of it. and reducing your triggers whilst in crisis i think is good, it can then allow you time to learn how to manage and deal with your dp/dr. Fluro lighting for me always triggered dr as for me it resembled the dr state. I even changed the lights in my work room because of this. I now do still at times get triggered into dr with fluro lighting but it quickly goes as now i know why it happens, what it is, and have desensatised myself to it.

I think that your post is a little simplified. I like the description of what goes on with the brain chemicals thou.
Dp is a very complex creature as are individuals. Im glad you have found a way out and its great to share that with others, however your way out isnt nessacarily going to be the same as anothers. 
My way out was certainly very different from yours and some of what you have said would of actually been detrimental in recovery. You have some great points and thanks for posting as it made me think which is always a great thing(for me  )


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## university girl

I was extremely DP'd 24/7 for at least five years prior to starting any meds... no it did not go away on its own. I am much better on meds than off. There are many who have been given a second chance because of meds. Yes, meds are not for everyone but for some they can be a second chance at life. There is no single "cure" for all of us but instead we all have to find our own "cures". And why is this? It is because we are all so different genetically and biochemically. We must travel our own paths and find what helps us ourselves.


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## Guest_

I agree with some of the stuff said here... i do think that this can be cured without meds and talk therapies.. but if meds are helping, then take them.
People ingest chemicals every day that are far more harmful then a benzo.


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## argenys

hi guy's.....sorry i'm having a very bad new years........no family to enjoy it with, lonely lonely lonely!.....everyone went out to to do there own things.

We'll shytiger, i agree with you 100%, ofcoures that recovery doesnt just consist of coming off the meds, but there is no need to get all technical i think, i think that one will see what triggers and what not while they start to come out, but the goal is to get out, flourecent lights are huge for trigerring it.....i know it triggered me, but it also triggers other things not only dp/dr..........i know that till this day, i try not to focus too much in a movie or get lost in it, because i may still get little bouts of it, althoguh now i understand enoguh of it to get out, because now i know and i can understand it, dp/dr now is actually great, because i feel like i can use it to my advantage.........although its not that easy to trigger it anymore, there are certain situations that i wish i had dp/dr......i think im glad i went throguh all this in a way....but yes, there are things you will need to watch out for....but everyone here is old enoguh i think to recognize what these things are onces you come out, even if its for a few minutes........but no need to get all technical and misteriuos, we gotta keep it simple.

University girl...........i want to understand your situation a little more, because it really does surprise me that you didnt feel better when you werent on meds, how did your dp/dr start?.......and what were you doing at the time?....did you drink alcohol?.........or were you staying away from sugar and coffe?.........did you have alot of stress in your life?......what did you do on your free time?........please tell me..because that way it will help me understand a little better ok...........

happy new year guys

pascual


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## argenys

BTW, i would not touch alcohol if my life depended on it, it will bring back dp/dr in a blink of an eye.
alcohol acts on the GABA wich is neurotransmitir that inhibits the other brain quemicals, its like the police of the other brain quemicals....it keeps them calm, so when you introduce alcohol they get more sensitive and your brain goes a bit haywire because there is no "police" to keep the brain quemicals calm.
benzodiazepines act the same way.....and serotonin reuptake inhibitors (ssri's)are even worse, because onces you introduce this pill your brain thinks its an intrudor so your brain will downregulate and stop producing serotonin as a defence mechanism....basically because your brain will be flooded by so much serotonin in the synapes(because reuptake inhibitor means that ssri's will prevent the sending nerve cell to reuptake the serotonin therefor you will have more serotnoin flowting around for the recieving nerve cell), it has to shut down....its all soo terrible, thinking about these meds just makes me quiver......and anti-psychotics, are major tranquilisers wich act on dopamine, boy if benzos are soo dangerous who knows what a major tranquiliser can do, i took risperdal, seroquel also, i felt like a zombie the whole time.........its a quemical straight jacket,


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## ShyTiger

lol pascual, thats just the way my brain works. For me it was the easiest way to respond and get across what was in my head.


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## David Kozin

> alcohol acts on the GABA wich is neurotransmitir that inhibits the other brain quemicals, its like the police of the other brain quemicals....it keeps them calm, so when you introduce alcohol they get more sensitive and your brain goes a bit haywire because there is no "police" to keep the brain quemicals calm.
> benzodiazepines act the same way


I am neither pro or anti-medication, but pro-education regarding both alternatives.

I do want to correct your information on the neurochemistry that you described above. True, GABA is a neurotransmiter that acts to supress neuronal firing in specific systems of the brain by bonding to GABA receptor sites (of which there are different kinds). However, from what I understand from your post is that you are saying that alcohol and benzodiazepines act on the GABA system to reduce GABA's effectivness and leading to this "haywire" effect. Benzodiazepines bond to GABA receptors and actually increase inhibition of neuronal firing and is the reason for the calming effect, which is to say your cell's inhibition is more "sensitive" and are being more "policed". The prevelant GABA-A receptors are essentially channels or tunnels between the synapse and the inside of the neuron. These tunnels open and close and allow for Calcium ions to flow through. If the channel is open, then Calcium can enter the cell, and because of the electrochemistry of Calcium this reduces the capacity of a neuron to fire. When a benzodiazepine binds to this receptor, it increases the ability for GABA to act on this site, therefore decreasing neuronal firing by increasing the Calcium to flow in to the cell. To extend your metaphor: This is like having a an overabundance of police, perhaps like having an army that reduces this "haywire" effect, however...

long term use of these types of drugs leads to a downregulation of these types of receptor's activity, and sudden withdrawal of large doses is dangerous because your brain is expecting to receive these GABA-enhancing drugs, however when they are not there and your baseline quantity of GABA receptor activity is not available: there is overactivity which would not have existed without taking the medications. I like your police metaphor, because this would be like suddenly withdrawing an army of police from an overactive riot and would lead to a rebound effect. This is obviously the reason for slow discontinutation of long-term benzodiazepine treatment and the reason abrupt use has these negative psychological and physical effects (which is very heavy use can be very dangerous).

Although I am not an advocate of the abuse of alcohol (and suggest that even any alcohol in some individuals is harmful), the method of action for alcohol that you give is incorrect: Alcohol enhances the activity of 
GABA as well. However, in the same way, if you do not have alcohol present: then that enhancement no longer exists and you feel the effects of alcohol withdrawal.

Regarding SSRIs and the anti-psychotic medications, the serotonin system is extremely complex and it is difficult to simply say oen way or another. In one system, increased serotonin receptor binding may actually increase an output of GABA and decrease activity, whereas in other systems in could do the opposite. The anti-psychotic medications have a greater profile for how they antagonize or reduce the action of neurotransmitters and I have no disagreement with the general idea presented, although I am hesitatant to throw all the anti-psychotics out of the picture. I do believe that all of these medications should be prescribed very cautiously. I have a family member, who would not be able to function if it we not for the antipsychotic Olanzapine (Zyprexa), however I also know of a major portion of individuals who have simple depression and are prescribed these very potent medications, which can have very signiciant side effects, and perhaps better alternative treatments could be used. (For example Yoga or a much less potent medication).

I personally feel that we are a society drawn to quick fixes and many would feel that we are overmedicated. The ultimate goal would be to live a good life without needing external substances, however some individuals do benefit from the use of these medications and I wanted to be sure that the information about the effect of GABA system (although a basic description) is provided here.

Sincerely,

David


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## argenys

> long term use of these types of drugs leads to a downregulation of these types of receptor's activity, and sudden withdrawal of large doses is dangerous because your brain is expecting to receive these GABA-enhancing drugs, however when they are not there and your baseline quantity of GABA receptor activity is not available: there is overactivity which would not have existed without taking the medications. I like your police metaphor, because this would be like suddenly withdrawing an army of police from an overactive riot and would lead to a rebound effect. This is obviously the reason for slow discontinutation of long-term benzodiazepine treatment and the reason abrupt use has these negative psychological and physical effects (which is very heavy use can be very dangerous).


Yes, this is what i meant, and i'm sorry i didn't adress it, that it's the long term use that makes it harmfull and these pills should only be used for no more then 2 weeks, because they do downregulate (Gaba receptors), but alcohol will do the same even if it was one night of drinking.......i think anyone here will agree with me that alcohol makes them worse, and with the serotonin, its the same, this will happend in the long run, and when you withdrawal, and what i wrote above is also the reason why it takes years to recover from these meds.............david, please read Pr Heather ashtons stuff, she knows more then anyone about benzos and has helped many people, she used to have her own clinic....go to http://www.benzo.org.uk you will see exactly how they work!......heather ashton also in her studies and in her clicnic found out that all these people that came off the benzos recovered from any previuos problem they had before the benzos, about 90% of them.........she wanted to find out more, but she could not recive anymore funding for her studies..........

Pascual


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## peacedove

Ok the answers to my questions may be in the explanations you all have already posted... but reading has become a challenge for me and I got kinda lost tryin' to make sense of all that info.

I wasn't on any drugs when I got DP or prior to it. I was thinking about God when it happened. So that's why I tend to think of it as a mysterious illness instead of just brain chemistry.

Since I've had this illness I've been on many different meds/drugs... some which helped some which made me worse... nothing has helped long-term. But I'm wondering if they have made me worse permanently.

I'm currently taking 60mgs Prozac, 1mg Klonopin, 200mgs Lamictal, and 0.5mgs Xanax. The xanax is not daily... just as needed and I reserve it for when I feel a big panic attack coming on. I'm only taking the Lamictal cuz I heard there was a good success rate with it on other DP sufferers. But it's not helping me, I think it might be making me worse, but I don't want to stop 'til I get to the recommended dose.

So, what if I were to stop these meds and the two years you mentioned go by... but I feel exactly the same or worse. Could it be because drugs have permanently f*cked up my brain? I worry about this often. Alcohol too... it brings temporary relief and that's why I do it despite the negative effects it has on me the next day. Could alcohol have permanently messed up my brain? Or if I quit will my brain heal? Not heal to normal cuz obviously I never was but I think I've gotten worse over the years and maybe it's cuz of what you say about meds.

Sorry if I'm not making sense. I'm extremely hungover and just popped a xanax cuz I'm freakin' out. I'm thinking about taking another cuz this one doesn't seem to be working. It's ok, you can call me stupid.


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## argenys

Hi peace........

Well yes out of the conclusions me and some friends came up with, it usually takes two years after you get this, for the subconciuos fear to go away, but 2 years of a drug free state, some can come out earllier, for me wich i forgot to add, back in 2002 i came off benzos and everything because i had moved and the doc theere did not want to perscribe tha amount i was on...(24mg ativan daily), so she forced me to come off them, back then i had already been in dp/dr for 2.5 years, so i came off, but to my surprise the dp/dr left in three weeks!....it was gone!...i was soo happy, but the next night i went out to celebrate with some friends and and had a couple beers (did not know at the time that my GABA receptors were still very delicate from the benzo use)...and the next day...full blown dp/dr attack..the worste attack i have every felt in my life, it was amazing.......well i went back on the pills because i didnt know it was the alchol, i was like you guys..i didnt know about this stuff, so i went back on and the dp/dr remained for another 3 years...untill i came across the link about benzos i gave above, and i stuck to it...they told me how these pills work, and that my original problem should disappear, and thats when something clicked in my head, and i knew why i got dp/dr again,BECAUSE I DRANK ALCOHOL!...LOL....well i came off, but this time it wasnt three weeks, the withdrwals lasted about 1 year well atleats for the dp/dr to go away, but i was still stuck with other symptoms like insomnia and other stuff.

Now, i started to think and wonder why it went away...and i noticed that my fear was gone./...i just didnt fear dp/dr anymore, when i first came off the pills i had the same fear i had when i first got dp/dr, but within months..maybe 5 or 6 i noticed that the fear i had was drug induced and i wasnt actually affraid of dp/dr.....onces the fear and anxiety left....i was stuck with dp/dr but nothing compared to what it felt with fear...it felt awesome...i could do anyhting, because dp/dr was there to protect me, i felt great...even with dp/dr...but then it started to fade, slowly untill i popped into reality again.......

So onces youve had dp/dr for 2 years..your probably already used to it....so if you come off any meds and you still feel fear....i would say that fear is caused by the meds, not the original fear..........your brain is a beautifull thing..and its your friend.......its not your enemy and it will reward you for not putting things in it that werent ment by nature and god.......even taking vitamins is bad.......you have to leave your brain alone to get back to its homeostasis......

No these pills do NOT cause permanent brain damage, the studies they ahd done do not indicate any kind of damage, even for long time users...but the longer...the harder to come off....and the worse the withdrawal will be....wich may also last 2 years...maybe more.....

Peace peace....lol

take care..

pascual


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## David Kozin

Sorry I misunderstood, I just wanted to clarify (as not everyone will read it correctly, it did seem odd you spoke about downregulation with 5-HT, but seemed to be completely off mark with GABA).

I am familiar with Dr. Ashton's work, particilarily because benzodiazipienes are the only known treatment for Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder. These medications are a mixed blessing, and just as every medication: everyone should do their homework.

The one part about benzodiazipienes that I do like are that they have been around for such a long time, and their effects are well known, and is typically why they are prescribed as short-term treatments or at least in long term treatments with caution. If someone is experiencing panic attacks periodically, I personally feel that .25-.5 mg Xanax taken as needed is a better alternative than placing them on a year long treatment of Paxil for Panic Disorder. However, putting the patient on 1 mg Xanax a day would not be warranted in this case.

A lecturer at Johns Hopkins began his Pharmacology class with the following, "If all the drugs were dumped in to the ocean, it would be all the best for mankind and all the worst for the fishes."

I warn of large dose benzodiazipene treatments and the dangers of even short term use. I say that out of all of the substances that I have ever injested, Klonopin was by far the most negative and taken at the dose range prescribed to me I forgot about 2 years of my life.

Long-term treatments with medications should always be re-evaluated and be wary of the doctor willing to prescribe you high doses of potent drugs without spending time to consider alternatives to work with you as well. For example, taking Xanax while working with a psychotherapist on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is a good choice, as one would hope that the CBT skills will begin to take effect and the Xanax be gradually withdrawn.

However, there are cases such as epilepsy and other conditions where the benefits of medications outweigh the risks involved. However, if you find a doctor more willing to prescribe you valium to deal with the death of a loved one, instead of allowing you to go through the natural process of grieving, then it seems to be getting out of hand. However, only your doctor can best discuss this.

I try to take a balanced look at the benefits versus risks for each medication. Albuterol inhalers can increase risk of heart problems, but if I had asthma you would be sure I had one on hand at all times.

A good mindset for medications are: What is the lowest effective dose I can take that will be helpful.

Best,

David


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## argenys

BTW, i don't really think dp/dr itself has anyhting to do with brain quemicals (but i may be wrong), i think it's mostly anxiety and fear related, when one is anxiuos and also does alot of introspection (thought) you will come up with some crazy S$#%T and psych yourself out, i'm not really sure if there is simularities with drug induced and non- drug induced, would not know...but from what ive read.....people who have it non-drug induced are usually people who had childhood traumas and that was the way the hide from the trauma, by dissociating.

also there are the ones who say that they tend to think about the universe and our existence, got dp/dr but never used drugs.......don't know...... thats a hard one, cause i know that being in this state causes this.....because of the mental state, your mind processes alot of subconciose crap, but when it leaves you can still think these things but its not the same..it doesnt feel the same, but i would suggest maybe looking downward and focus a little outward, and try to concentrate on your body not on your thoguhts....but this would be for the non-drug induced, but don't know cause mine was drug induced.


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## [rula]

NODID said:


> there is a split on this board at times between drug-induced and non-drug induced disorders,


I beleive the split on this board is not so much between drug vs non-drug incuded disorders, it's more about illegal vs Rx drugs incuded disorders. the majority of heated arguments revolve around this topic, and a good number of sufferes of dp/dr simply will NOT come to this board because it's viewed as being "hostile" to anti-meds views.

When you say that your mission statement is to bring awareness to "psychoactive substance use", do you include for example the Benzo family, a known contributor to dp/dr disorder with withdrawal symptoms that include visual/auditory hallucinations and seizures? antipsychotic medication with serious side effects such as Tardive Dyskinesia? or is this awareness limited to the already classified as "illegal" substances? just curious...

rula


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## argenys

Yes, i think that meds are extremely helpfull for those with zchizofrenia, HPPD,and other scary "disorders"......because these are disorders that from what i know have no cure, and are related to more complex things in the brain, and are are very disturbing thoguht disorders, wich one cannot come out of by simple therapy or relaxing technics.......

I understand dp/dr isnt really a thoguht disorder, dp/dr is recognized as a symptom and for some more persistent because of it's nature...(scary crap!).......but if one hallucinates and hears voices i would defenately think meds are good for them...no doubt, but if your reality is intact then we can work with something....i'm just talking from experience....and i do believe everyone here (esp drug induced) have the same stuff and is there (dp/dr) because of the same reasons......i also understand that there are people here who have other issues other then dp/dr..like OCD, and other emotional "disorders".....but just now i have a friend who has OCD and he sais that he had some vitamin difficiencies (took a hair test), and most people with OCD have these Vit deficiencies......so hes doing some pretty good progress there.........so attacking these underlying conditions would be the wize thing to do.

Pascual


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## Guest_

HPPD is not a scary disorder. Its just frustrating.


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## Guest

Argenys,

I read yuor first post in this thread and just want to say i like your approach. It makes a lot of sense to me personally.


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## argenys

Hello nikki.......... :wink:

Ok i was just reading up on university girl's website........and my heart does go out to you, you have been throguh a very rough time most of your life.....nobody should go throguh this, but i also noticed you were very young, you were only 13 when this happened, you must have been scared out of your mind!, and even after those five years that you were med free and decided to take meds...you were still very young ...18......that's around the age i got dp/dr........and no wonder you would not feel any reliefe you hardly understood what was going on at that age, everyone is counfused at that age...people who dont have dp/dr, now you are much more mature i think, and i bet you understand by now how this works and how YOU feel, most of us get this at an early age because we are soo confused and don't know what is going on with us...and we arent mature anoguh to understand, i am not surprised that you didn't feel reliefe for those 5 years.....

ive always known that people with dp/dr are smart and deep thinkers....but just now i also proved that we are goodlooking too...hehe 

Pascual


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## freesong

I tend to agree with you about the medications because I believe that while they may help for awhile, they may eventually cause the very thing that they are supposed to cure. I was on Xanax for 23 years. Who knows what it did to my brain. There are studies being done regarding Xanax and brain atrophy. These drugs were not designed to be taken for long periods of time. And only time will tell the real effects that will come from their use. As many have said though, everyone is different and what works for one will possibly not work for another. I have posted on here many times regarding
some supplements that I am trying that are natural and developed by neuroscientists. They are called Neuro-replete and cys-replete. They are supposed to naturally increase the serotonin levels and balance with dopamine. I have only just begun but so far I am better than I was. I think that anything that we can do to naturally calm and help with brain function will be helpful. That is just common sense. Eating right, taking supplements, exercisning, good sleep habits, sunshine, fresh air, and internal cleansing are good ideas I think. I can at least function now and I couldn't do anything when this first happened. I have also taken the advice to heart to get busy and distract myself from thinking about it so much. I read that this allows a part of the brain that is suspected to be causing this to go back to functioning normailly. This seems to be helping quite a bit too. I am not sure about your theory that this is caused by fear. Who really knows what it is caused by. I believe that the brain is malfunctioning for whatever reason. For some it may be from extended trauma in their lives. For others it appears to be from drug usage. I am going to be careful with regard to drawing conclusions about any treatment or any causal theory. I hope that the Mt. Sinai group will come up with some answer soon. In the meantime, everyone is doing the best they can to do what they think is right for them and that is all that can be expected. I am choosing to go on with my life as though this is not happening. I am a fairly decent actress thank goodness and no one can really tell that I am different. I am making this an excuse to get as healthy physically and mentally as I possibly can. I got to thinking about it and I can just panic and stop and stew about this or I can go on and do things that will help myself and hopefully others. I am spending at least an hour a day doing some kind of research regarding this disorder or things related to healing the brain in general. There is much to learn. Hope to find something beneficial to share soon. Till then, God bless, freesong


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## agentcooper

to the original poster: my dp is not caused by anxiety...it is caused by hormones. and i think it is pretty odd that you would assume that because something worked for your dp, it will automatically work for everyone else who suffers from the disorder. it's not that simple, hun.


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## Space Cadet

I believe the brain will heal naturally too. I guess we all just want the quick fix, however most of the time these "quick fixes" are a deal with the devil. I think alot of doctors should share some of the blame too. Some are way too quick to prescribe medications without any thought to consequences. At the ripe old age of 23 I've been through pain killer withdrawal, anti-psychotic withdrawal, benzo withdrawal and anti-depressant withdrawal. These medications have caused me 3 lifetimes worth of suffering and left my brain in a state of shell shock. Sorry if I sound bitter, but I am :evil:


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## argenys

freetopic............let me start by saying this..........

Charlie chaan.........two years were spent inside his home with agoraphobia, he was soo scared, he had extreme dp/dr (braught on by acid) took xanax not one second of reliefe while on it, could not see a few inches from his eyes because of the seveer dp/dr, he also started to know what i, knew, and he stuck to his instincts, he spent 2 years without any meds, and he was getting worse by the day, but he knew in his gut, at 2 years of being med free, his dp/dr started to fade, left, GONE, now he works for micrsoft, has a pretty girlfriend, and is living life at its fullest.

Richard A.K.A criptey, years of hell, (braught on by marihuana), took the paxil and valium route, suffered and had dp/dr the whole time that was on it, althoguh it did take the anxiety away, it didnt take the dp/dr away, he also found out the truth, and he got off because he knew what i know, 18 months suffered, could barely know his name when he woke up, or somtiems knew who he was, 18 months later, his dp/dr GONE, adios!, nomore dp/dr, he is now dp/dr free because the meds were not letting him get better.

Andrew A.K.A RUNVS..........came off alcohol got extreme dp/dr, he was lucky because he found a doctor that also knew, and the doc told him, what you have will go away, if i give you meds you wont recovere from this, you will only feel reliefe from the symptoms, andrew took his advice, althoguh many times he felt soo crazy that he felt he had to take a med, but NO, he stuck to it, exactly 2 years after being med free, he comes out of dp/dr, he's now a bussiness owner and is living a great life.

Now these are only a few examples, but at the benzo site i go to, there are hundreds of people who get dp/dr and all go on to recovered onces they remove the meds, i was actually surprised with one lady, she had dp/dr for 18 years, the whole time she was taking meds, from a/'s to benzos, when she arrived at the benzo site, she started to learn exactly the truth and she came off, you know what?.....she recovered from 18 years of dp/dr, i still remember her post, she said OMG i cant believe it im finally sliping out of this, life MUST be more beautifull for her.

Same thing happened to me.

Ok, the reason for my posts aren't to tell you that meds are bad, or an anti-med campaign im on...NO, it's to tell you that the whole time i was on benzos i had dp/dr, it wasnt untill i came off that i found reliefe from this beast, you guys just dont know OK, i wish i could get into your brains and tell explain this to you, now i started this thread because i know that when most recover they go on to live there life and leave this place alone, when i recovered i knew i had to help, but i wont do it anymore.

I still have yet to meet the individual who has recovered nice and clean from this with meds, and if they do exist somehwere out there, they probably only feel numbed from the meds, because i honestly just wont believe it.

and for the guy who has it because of hormonel problems, well its the same stuff, hormones cause al kinds of problems from depression to anxiety, so its the same reason everyone else here has dp/dr.

I get the impression you guys think that the human body is like a robot, thats its such a simplistic of an organism that by putting something in it it will correct the problem...you guys are sooooo off.

But anyways if you feel that being on the meds is making you better then i guess theres nothing i can do.

All this is for the secondary dp/dr , not the primary, i got confused in some of my earlier post making the diference detween drug and non-drug, but there really isnt a diference, they are both anxiety related, i think the diference if between primary and secondary.

Peace.

Pascual


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## argenys

argenys said:


> freetopic............let me start by saying this..........
> 
> Charlie chaan.........two years were spent inside his home with agoraphobia, he was soo scared, he had extreme dp/dr (braught on by acid) took xanax not one second of reliefe while on it, could not see a few inches from his eyes because of the seveer dp/dr, he also started to know what i, knew, and he stuck to his instincts, he spent 2 years without any meds, and he was getting worse by the day, but he knew in his gut, at 2 years of being med free, his dp/dr started to fade, left, GONE, now he works for micrsoft, has a pretty girlfriend, and is living life at its fullest.
> 
> Richard A.K.A criptey, years of hell, (braught on by marihuana), took the paxil and valium route, suffered and had dp/dr the whole time that was on it, althoguh it did take the anxiety away, it didnt take the dp/dr away, he also found out the truth, and he got off because he knew what i know, 18 months suffered, could barely know his name when he woke up, or somtiems knew who he was, 18 months later, his dp/dr GONE, adios!, nomore dp/dr, he is now dp/dr free because the meds were not letting him get better.
> 
> Andrew A.K.A RUNVS..........came off alcohol got extreme dp/dr, he was lucky because he found a doctor that also knew, and the doc told him, what you have will go away, if i give you meds you wont recovere from this, you will only feel reliefe from the symptoms, andrew took his advice, althoguh many times he felt soo crazy that he felt he had to take a med, but NO, he stuck to it, exactly 2 years after being med free, he comes out of dp/dr, he's now a bussiness owner and is living a great life.
> 
> Now these are only a few examples, but at the benzo site i go to, there are hundreds of people who get dp/dr and all go on to recovered onces they remove the meds, i was actually surprised with one lady, she had dp/dr for 18 years, the whole time she was taking meds, from a/'s to benzos, when she arrived at the benzo site, she started to learn exactly the truth and she came off, you know what?.....she recovered from 18 years of dp/dr, i still remember her post, she said OMG i cant believe it im finally sliping out of this, life MUST be more beautifull for her.
> 
> Same thing happened to me.
> 
> Ok, the reason for my posts aren't to tell you that meds are bad, or an anti-med campaign im on...NO, it's to tell you that the whole time i was on benzos i had dp/dr, it wasnt untill i came off that i found reliefe from this beast, you guys just dont know OK, i wish i could get into your brains and tell explain this to you, now i started this thread because i know that when most recover they go on to live there life and leave this place alone, when i recovered i knew i had to help, but i wont do it anymore.
> 
> I still have yet to meet the individual who has recovered nice and clean from this with meds, and if they do exist somehwere out there, they probably only feel numbed from the meds, because i honestly just wont believe it.
> 
> and for the guy who has it because of hormonel problems, well its the same stuff, hormones cause al kinds of problems from depression to anxiety, so its the same reason everyone else here has dp/dr.
> 
> I get the impression you guys think that the human body is like a robot, thats its such a simplistic of an organism that by putting something in it it will correct the problem...you guys are sooooo off.
> 
> But anyways if you feel that being on the meds is making you better then i guess theres nothing i can do.
> 
> All this is for the secondary dp/dr , not the primary, i got confused in some of my earlier post making the diference detween drug and non-drug, but there really isnt a diference, they are both anxiety related, i think the diference if between primary and secondary.
> 
> Peace.
> 
> Pascual


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## agentcooper

agentcooper said:


> to the original poster: my dp is not caused by anxiety...it is caused by hormones. and i think it is pretty odd that you would assume that because something worked for your dp, it will automatically work for everyone else who suffers from the disorder. it's not that simple, hun.


you didn't address any of that ^

i'm glad that getting off the meds helped you...but i still think it's ridiculous to come on a depersonalization forum and say that what worked for you, and a few other people, is going to work for everybody! especially with a disorder like depersonalization, since so little is known about dp and dr.

i could list a series of people who are on medication, living very full lives, but that would be pointless. the only real issue here, is what works for some, doesn't work for others.

by the way, i'm not on any medication, but if i could find one that made me feel 100% better, i'd take it in a heart beat...and i wouldn't find any problem with being on it for the rest of my life.


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## argenys

Good for you bro.........when you find an intellegent medicine that knows the exact correct pathways throguh your brain neurotrasnmiters specific to your DNA, and knows in a very intellengent way how to correct them each and every one of them in a way that they will not interact with each other negativiely, and will not de-rearange them from there natural way, something that will bring back it homeostasis please let everyone here know.

Peace

Pascual


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## SillyPutty

argenys said:


> I'm going to start off by saying that this is not a discussion, nor an argument, im just here to help and onces i do that, i will leave this place,


I thought you were leaving this place?


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## argenys

Absolutely true silly!....lol........

I just hope that enoguh people listen to me, i want as much people back in reality as i can, for those who wish to stay then please don't complain 20 years from now when you deside to come off the meds and realise that you finally recovered, i will be leaving now, i should of before but i didn't think that my time here help anyone, so please give your brain at least 2 years med free......and if in 2 years you dont feel reliefe then go back to the meds cause they will help with your symptoms (especially anxiety)and i think that meds will make you live a fuller life if there isnt another way.......but please give your brain atleast 2 years before you deside to take meds.

Peace....thanks silly, you kinda opened my eyes a little i got "into" the whole thing.

Take care everyone and i hope to see some of you with me back in reality.

pascual


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## agentcooper

argenys said:


> Good for you bro.........when you find an intellegent medicine that knows the exact correct pathways throguh your brain neurotrasnmiters specific to your DNA, and knows in a very intellengent way how to correct them each and every one of them in a way that they will not interact with each other negativiely, and will not de-rearange them from there natural way, something that will bring back it homeostasis please let everyone here know.
> 
> Peace
> 
> Pascual


the point is, that some people DO find "that" medicine that corrects imbalances in their brains so they can live fuller, better lives. and yet your answer for those people is to get off of the medicine? that just doesn't make any sense.

and by the way, you still haven't addressed most of my points.


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## sebastian

argenys said:


> Good for you bro.........when you find an intellegent medicine...[blah blah blah]


I'm sorry, but i can't take anyone who actually spells the word "intelligent" wrong, seriously.


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## agentcooper

sebastian said:


> argenys said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good for you bro.........when you find an intellegent medicine...[blah blah blah]
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but i can't take anyone who actually spells the word "intelligent" wrong, seriously.
Click to expand...

 :lol: i love how he/she called me "bro", too.


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## freesong

Here's the deal as I see it. There are many factors that occur with or without drugs that cause imbalance in the brain or dysfunction or whatever you want to call it. Some of these may be produced from drugs and may be treated by other drugs to help regain balance and health. There are many ways to skin a cat. Others may find help from changing eating habits, cleansing out toxins and adding nutrients. I, personally, would like to let my body heal itself but there is a malfunction occuring somewhere (and I think temporal lobe) plus I had a hysterectomy at 43 so my hormones are in the gutter somewhere. There are no easy answers in some cases but in others, with time, it can just re-balance and go away on its own. I think drugs should be used temporarily while seeking the true cause of what is really mal-functioning because while they may work at first, they are indeed foreign to the body ie.man-made and can end up causing the very problems they were meant to fix. They, also, can fix one problem and cause another somewhere else. For those who are seeking help with drugs, no criticism should be allowed as they are seeking to help themselves out of this hell with the help of professionals who should be qualified to administer, monitor and educate themselves and their patients on the side effects and hooefully short-term usage of the medications they are administering. Allopaths have much knowledge and so do alternative M.Ds and I wish they would get together and educate one another. For those who want to try alternative approaches, they too, should not be criticised because they are desperately seeking the way out as well. For those who believe it is purely psychological, they too are seeking the way out. In closing, I would like to state that I agree that the brain is very complex and so are most people. We are all striving to be healthy and whole and to have a life that is meaningful and fulfilling and happy. We need to be supportive and encouraging and never critical. We need to work together and to be compassionate with each other to achieve the much needed answers for all involved.


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## Inflammed

freesong said:


> Here's the deal as I see it. There are many factors that occur with or without drugs that cause imbalance in the brain or dysfunction or whatever you want to call it. Some of these may be produced from drugs and may be treated by other drugs to help regain balance and health. There are many ways to skin a cat. Others may find help from changing eating habits, cleansing out toxins and adding nutrients. I, personally, would like to let my body heal itself but there is a malfunction occuring somewhere (and I think temporal lobe) plus I had a hysterectomy at 43 so my hormones are in the gutter somewhere. There are no easy answers in some cases but in others, with time, it can just re-balance and go away on its own. I think drugs should be used temporarily while seeking the true cause of what is really mal-functioning because while they may work at first, they are indeed foreign to the body ie.man-made and can end up causing the very problems they were meant to fix. They, also, can fix one problem and cause another somewhere else. For those who are seeking help with drugs, no criticism should be allowed as they are seeking to help themselves out of this hell with the help of professionals who should be qualified to administer, monitor and educate themselves and their patients on the side effects and hooefully short-term usage of the medications they are administering. Allopaths have much knowledge and so do alternative M.Ds and I wish they would get together and educate one another. For those who want to try alternative approaches, they too, should not be criticised because they are desperately seeking the way out as well. For those who believe it is purely psychological, they too are seeking the way out. In closing, I would like to state that I agree that the brain is very complex and so are most people. We are all striving to be healthy and whole and to have a life that is meaningful and fulfilling and happy. We need to be supportive and encouraging and never critical. We need to work together and to be compassionate with each other to achieve the much needed answers for all involved.


Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap :!: 
(I'm serious)

Very nice post Freesong, that resumes well how we ALL should approach DPDR and anxiety related conditions.

You can't win a battle by attacking only one front.


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## freesong

Thanks


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## childmagical_innocent

Sebastian have you thought maybe English isn't everybody's first language?


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## argenys

Wow.....i see that my post has made it to the recovery section....hope it helps, although i promised to not come in anymore, and i really shouldn't anyways, but someone sent me an email from here..so im noing to answer him throguh here......



> Hello,
> My name is Danny, I am 25 years old and I live in Northern California. I need your advice.
> I was on lexapro for 2 years for anxiety. Last may I decide to get off of this drug because I did'nt want to take it for the rest of my life. Iwas completey off by august. but late september i took lexapro one day cause I was feeling blue. Big mistake. after taking one pill I was spun out. I did'nt sleep for 3 days . I began having obsessions about existence, life, eternity, etc... I also felt like i was'nt real. I told my doctor, he told me I should see a pshychiatrist, so I did. He gave me seroquel. He said it would get rid of my obsessive thoughts. But it did'nt help. It made me worse. I was on Seroquel for 1 month and also wellbutrin. Then I began researching the effects of these drugs and was stunned. They do more harm then good. They destroy the brain. Its like a chemical labotomy. I began reading the withdrawal symptoms of lexapro and seroquel and was scared. I read dp/dr is a withdrawal symptom of lexapro.
> I felt as if I was going crazy. Doctors would say I just have depression, as well as loved ones. But this was something different that I could noy describe. I knew I was depressed because of my thoughts, not because of a "chemical imbalance". In january I stumbled upon Depersonalization. I cried tears of joy because finally there were people who were going through the same thing I was. But reading the storys on this site gave me little hope. it seemed no one was recovered, and they all take the drugs that I refuse to take. Until I saw your post. I need your help. how did you do it? what is your regime? Diet, Exercise,Behavior. Whats the blueprint?
> I've been drug free since january, but there has been little progress. I lost my job, I only go out to see my shrink( he's an expert in anxiety disorders and does'nt belive in drugs either). I feel like i'm not living, but only existing. I'm too miserable to live, and too scared to die. Hit me up.


Hello danny, i'm affraid you are another victim of psychiatry and of this place, by experimenting you got yourself into trouble with lexapro, now i don't know if you had dp/dr before the lexapro but by this post it seems like you didn't...so this is whats going to happen ok....you need to stay away from this site for the time being, people that are in this state will think crazy things and make weird messed up and negative posts, so do not come here for now, what you have was/is caused by the lexapro "we" who get DP easily are very sensitve to quemicals, so for your recovery you need to keep your brain clean, no more pills they will screw you up even more, no more vitamins, no more alcohol, and defenatly no more drugs, or even sugar.......onces your brain realises that you are not putting stuff in it, it will slowly stabilise itself and you will come out, it will feel like a veil has been pulled away from your eyes and thoguhts, but you need to stop everyhting you are taking, it can take up to 2 years, and it may not be a linear process but the end result is complete reality again, do not worry i am 100% sure you will recover......don't listen to some peoples answers in this place, when you have dp/dr your mind is altered and you can't think normally, so you will read alot of crap basically from people in this forum.....and the reason why you are obsessing about your existence and life, ect....is because of the way you feel, because you do feel unreal, your body and mind have taken a time out from the stress thats going on in your brain, but you do not feel unreal because you are obsesssing about it, actually obsessing is very natural in your human nature, if you didnt obsess then you would not be human, its the way we cope, but those obsesstions will leave onces your brain settles down, I promise, stay away from psychiatrists also, they will make you believe in "disorders" and stuff and tell you you need CBT, pills and stuff, please do not listen to psychitrists, while i was recovering i developed a phobia of psychiatrists or even doctors, everytime i looked at them i felt like they were evil, look at what they have done to you, they are trying to feed you more and more pills, you poor thing, no wonder you are struggling, your brain must be fried form all these meds.........please get off the meds, from the advice of a doctor and do not accept anymore pills from him, even if he suggests that you do need them, and time will heal you...take care

Pascual


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## Inflammed

argenys said:


> please get off the meds, from the advice of a doctor and do not accept anymore pills from him, even if he suggests that you do need them, and time will heal you...take care


Well said Pascual, my brain got fried too by pills so I totally agree that the first thing to do in order to get better is to quit freezing the core of the brain with pills that randomly plays in the grey matter of our brains.


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## Xu

> Well said Pascual, my brain got fried too by pills so I totally agree that the first thing to do in order to get better is to quit freezing the core of the brain with pills that randomly plays in the grey matter of our brains.


I second this post.

It's actually nice to see people who think the same about drugs as I do; it really is tiring that everywhere I look people see them as an actual method of curing their life problems. It's unreasonable. The only way I can understand someone feeling better from jamming chemicals into their brain is by their own choice - like a placebo.

For a long time I wondered if I would ever feel right again, after I had been on Paxil and Trazodone. I'd worry that my brain was permanently affected... but I'm getting over that now, and I believe it can return to normal on its own.



> they will make you believe in "disorders" and stuff and tell you you need CBT, pills and stuff, please do not listen to psychitrists


Indeed. People need to step up and realize that just because this person has a job as a psychiatrist doesn't mean s/he's right. Spending a crapload of money on your education doesn't make everything you say true...


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