# The "Existance" Question



## IQ (Mar 20, 2007)

Ok, ive been severely DP/DR'd the last few days, and ive let my mind wander again. And ive actually turned up an answer for the "do i exist" question that i am comfortable with for the moment. Of cause, i could think deeper with it, and the answer is rather more philasophical than i would like, but i think this may help me in the long run.

This may go off into a bit of a rant, but bear with me if your interested.

[rant]

Most of us know the question, and how this question cannot be answered. "What proof is there that i exist?", "How do i know that you are not all figments of my imagination?", and all the other questions it spawns. Then this got me onto thinking about other people who do not have DP/DR. These questions exist, so why do they not bother them? They have no proof, how can they be happy in this knoledge?

My conclusion, (my opinion of cause), is that they dont need to ask these questions. They believe they exist, they believe it so blindly that they now think of it as fact. Just the same way that some people believe in god so blindly. Because of this, this makes it real. If you do not believe you are real, then there really is no chance of feeling real. You have to wholeheartedly believe in this so blindly that it becomes part of yourself, and thus you become real again. "I believe, there for I am".

Im going to try and implement this into my life and see if this helps. I know that ive had some success with a similar line of thought based on logic. And that involves concentrating very hard on every little thing that i do and making myself know that it is happening right now. This is a kind of manual way of reconneting you mind/body balance, and last week i did this and had some brief moments of reality. For some reason tho i slipped back into my "comfort" DP/DR, and its escalated from there.

I seam to be not actively dealing with the problem. Distracting myself from it doesn't make it go away. What i have learnt is that concentrating on existing and having 100% belief that i am going to get better does work, i just have to keep the motivation up to do so.

I dont think this is the easy way out of this at all, but for me, i believe it is the only way out. I put myself here, and i am the only one who can get me out.

[/rant]


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2007)

IQ said:


> "What proof is there that i exist?", "How do i know that you are not all figments of my imagination?"


Well, how could I be a figment of your imagination if you didnt exist? :wink:

Greg


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## IQ (Mar 20, 2007)

Im still the same person said:


> IQ said:
> 
> 
> > "What proof is there that i exist?", "How do i know that you are not all figments of my imagination?"
> ...


Ah, but that then brings the question - "Is this me living this, or am i in some kind of prison for my mind?"

Or - "Does imagination exist?"

I think, therefore im not


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

This is the big killer for me too. I often ask myself if I question reality so much because of all my psychedelic use, that I get flashbacks, or people with derealization question it as much as me.

The big problem with questioning existence for me, and I'm not sure about all you guys, is that I tend to think very deeply... constantly, and my thoughts will seem very strong to me at the moment.

Derealization + the concept of reality itself, just popping out of no where, often really leads me to the conclusion that I actually am living in some sort of illusion which I could not pinpoint for the life of me. And not just with thoughts, it over takes me, I will literally believe I am.

We might just think, and think, and think, till we are exauhsted and don't care anymore. Who knows?


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Also wanted to say, I think alot of people question existance. but with dr, your thoughts become creepy and I think we'll find ourself a bit scared of our imagination.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

I dont even have dp/dr anymore and i still question existence everyday really. I think to myself how do i know im here? Am i really the person who i think i am? And the really creepy one am i just in a mental institution hallucinating all of this?

I think this just means your smart enough to question things and not take everything for granted. It can mess with your head alittle but id rather be abit depressed and smart then be really happy and stupid.


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2007)

Existential anxiety is something EVERYONE has to some point, but most don't think about it, they take existance just as "for granted" as being able to take a piss. 
I mean it, we're just thinking to deep, if you we're to analyze your food in the same way, you'd starve to death I promise...


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

we're crazy fools


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2007)

haha true that man.

I read something about "you have to give up control to gain control" maybe there's something to this, that once you give up and stop fighting, you realize that what your fighting against doesn't even exist?


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2007)

We love the word Existential on this site don't we.LOL :lol:

Greg


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2007)

OK, lets say we solve this existence question and it turns out that we all have our own reality or that we are all dreaming etc etc. Then what?
what would you do with this new found information, would it change anything?

Greg


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## mornhyland (Feb 25, 2007)

This debate got me thrown out of a philosphy class with the teacher questioning my sanity.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2007)

mornhyland said:


> This debate got me thrown out of a philosphy class with the teacher questioning my sanity.


Have you come to feel comfortable asking questions which others find creepy? Did you used to keep asking the question "why?" (about our existance) and if you did, can you remember at one point that it used to creep you out (It did for myself), I feel myself as if I?ve come to also feel comfortable with the question which isn?t might to be answered by humans?


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

NikkiUK said:


> Well, after reading that, to me you seem stupid despite your self-proclaimed intelligene. You obviously havent experienced anywhere NEAR the HELL that i and so many others on here have gone through and those who still suffer at the greatest of depths. If i had a choice of being able to "switch off" and be a happy averagely intelligent person or have a little mental health worriesa ll my life and be brilliant i know what id choose, the first. My moto has always been 'The most important thing to have in life is your own piece of mind'
> 
> Your entitled to your own opinion as life would be dull if we all agreed on everything, but your comment has stirred strong feelings in me on the very subject.


 Well im not going to argue about whos experienced more hell me or you or anyone else on here but i think i know a little bit about hell.

I had severe dp/dr, brain fog and anxiety since i was born. I did not get it under control until last year which would mean that i suffered from this for about 24 years.

I also have bipolar disorder with mixed state features being a main symptom. Now mixed state bipolar is absolute hell ive cut my arm's up, beat my fists against steel door's and concrete walls until they where a bloody mess and ive even poured boiling water over my hand on one occasion. You just do this to get some release.

On top of this i also suffer from a number of chronic pain issue's including muscle spasms and a incurable chronic pain syndrome that is often regarded as more painful then just about any other disease on the planet. I wont name what it is on the board because i like to keep some thing's private.

Also i dont think im stupid. A little reckless, abit foolish and certainly hotheaded but not stupid.


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## mornhyland (Feb 25, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> Have you come to feel comfortable asking questions which others find creepy? Did you used to keep asking the question "why?" (about our existance) and if you did, can you remember at one point that it used to creep you out (It did for myself), I feel myself as if I?ve come to also feel comfortable with the question which isn?t might to be answered by humans?


I've been asking "why" since I was able to talk, I think. I do ask questions that others don't want to think about. Most people it seems are content with the common answers in this area.

This type of conversation is similar to when I question if just because others don't hear the voices, does that mean they aren't really there? I am often dismissed when this comes up and I try to defend the voices.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

aye, i will second that everyone questions existance. but i think us drs do it to the 10th degree, and throw a little fear into the mix


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2007)

everyone questions it, just like everyone questions death, but most dont obsess about it 24/7


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

MentallyIll said:


> everyone questions it, just like everyone questions death, but most dont obsess about it 24/7


I obsess about it 24/7, apparently I have an obessive mental pattern. Not fun, but other obsessions can be broken, so why not my silly mental one...

zbohem x


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

Hi siouxsie.

Do you mind if I ask you what it is that makes you feel you don't exist?

Jas


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

openminded said:


> Hi siouxsie.
> 
> Do you mind if I ask you what it is that makes you feel you don't exist?
> 
> Jas


Sorry, I didn't type that cleary, I obsess about death, not in a morbid way, just in a 'I can't comprehend this great nothingness' type of a way.

The very concept of life, death and generally 'being' is something that I find very difficult to grasp.

I find it difficult to put into words, sorry.

zbohem x


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

What is your take on DP, sorry about all the questions its just I notice you have an IQ of 147 and I would be interested on any theories you might have. I posted my own a while back but it was cut down fairly quickly, not by everyone though.

Jas


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

In all honesty... I don't have a clue.

The closest that I can get to is that I question the whole life/death/existance thing far too much. It's something that my brain cannot comprehend, I believe that something in my brain switches off when I get into this thought process too deeply, a protection mechanism if you like.

The dp that I'm suffering from now if far more intense than ever before, now it is a constant, whereas before I could bring myself back to 'normality' if I busied myself with something else.

This 24/7 dp was brought on, I believe, by suffering from a miscarriage. My baby had died but was still in the womb, this was the case for a couple of weeks. So my body had to accept death, as it was right there inside of me, but this is too much for my brain to cope with so it seems to have switched off, maybe just until I deal with this.

It was by far one of the most traumatic experiences of my life, but I think I coped with that better than with the fear the dp brings. I'm afraid that this may become a viscious circle.

Diazepam is helping with my anxiety though, so maybe I can pull out of it.

zbohem x


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

I am sorry to hear that, I hope you will be fine soon siouxsie.
I will post my theory on DP if you are interested.

Jas


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Please do, I'm open to all explanations.

I promise not to cut you down 

zbohem x


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

Ok I will and another post to it.
It will show up as "People say they never feel the same" in this forum.

Jas


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Thanks Jas 

zbohem x


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

I believe my DP is linked to my weak short-term memory... (95% of the population have a stronger short-term memory then mine) I would like to know what my long-term memory is; I might find it hard to remember myself. My DR might be related to ?Dyspraxia?, I?ve been told I could have it? and it make a person have difficulty understanding spatial awareness? I find I can only focus on a small amount of ?what is going off around me?.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

Maybe so Darren.
Do you feel you have any OCD tendencies, ?Dyspraxia? would certainly create that, by following a routine you would in effect be giving yourself a long term memory.

Jas


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

Gawd Jas... you totally hit the nail hard there!... lol "winner" =D. yeah that's what I noticed about it as well... that it makes sense for me to have OCD just for the core reason of getting information into my long-term memory. I have an OCD of analyzing... so I guess it all makes sense for me now...

P.S... do I know you? lol


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> Gawd Jas... you totally hit the nail hard there!... lol "winner" =D. yeah that's what I noticed about it as well... that it makes sense for me to have OCD just for the core reason of getting information into my long-term memory. I have an OCD of analyzing... so I guess it all makes sense for me now...
> 
> P.S... do I know you? lol


Apparently I have a mental OCD, if I'm not obessing then I'm analysing, and if i'm not analysing then I'm commentating and if I'm not doing either of these than I'm singing (in my head) it's never quiet in there, never.

Gaaaar.

zbohem x


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

I know the feeling, even trying to hold a conversation with people is hard because they may say something that reminds me of something else I had been working on. After that I lose concentration, Its hard for me to be attentive.

P.S Darren, yes I live next door  
Jas


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

siouxsie: Me think soom funky relaxing tai chi would help us both *does the slow barrel rollllll move*


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2007)

Oh Jas? the girl next door? *Pushes his tongue towards his cheek* :wink: :lol:


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

I may try the tai chi thing actually. Can't do any harm.

zbohem x


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Look, (and forgive me if I sound cross - it's just that this kind of thing annoys me - not the person individually, but the obsessional rumination that causes us to question 'existance), there is absolutely no point in obsessing about matters like this. It's a total and utter waste of mental energy. Trust me, I know. I've been there. I spent months obsessively ruminating about 'what reality is' and other, more incredibly ridiculous things (such as - why can't I see atoms!! :shock

I've said this time and time again, but it is the obsessional rumination that feeds your DR/DP that makes you have these thoughts. It's like a fungus, a psychological parasite, feeding off our unconscious uncertanties. And everyone has these thoughts, mentally ill or not, but when we are well we just consign them (unless you are a student doing a PhD in Philosophy) to the 'don't know, will never know, so who cares and why am I wasting my time' basket, shrug, and get on with their life.

Please, do whatever it takes to try and stop obsessing. I know it's hard, I really do, but once the obsessional rumination faded, the DR/DP did too. I no longer have DR/DP, but I am still crushed by anxiety. I think the reason that I no longer have DR/DP is that I told my obsessions to go and shove them self up satan's boiling arse pipe, I really do. Of course it's not that simple, and it does take time and a lot of effort, but it worked for me. I truely believe that obsessional rumination, mental introversion, is the thing that keeps DR/DP alive. Kill that, and you kill the DR/DP.


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

Heres something you can try. You can do it with your eyes closed or open, in a quiet room or noisy street. All you have to do is this: identify yourself. 
I don?t mean stand up and say your name. I mean catch hold of that which is you, rather than just the things that you door experience, To do this, focus your attention on yourself. Try to locate in your own consciousness the ?I? that is you, the person you is feeling hot or cold, thinking your thoughts, hearing the sounds around you and so on. I?m not asking you to locate your feelings, sensations and thoughts, but the person, the self , who is having them. 
It should be easy. After all, what is more certain in this world than that you exist? Even if everything around you is a dream or an illusion, you must exist to have the dream, to do the hallucinating . So if you turn your mind inwards and try to become aware only of yourself, it shouldn?t take long to find it. 
Have a go. 
Any luck?

Admit it. You failed. You looked for the one thing that you always assumed was there and found nothing. What does that mean? That you don?t exist? 
Lets get clear about what you would have found. The moment you became aware of anything it would have been something quite specific, a thought, a feeling, a sensation, a sound, a smell. But in no such case would you have been aware of yourself as such. You can describe each of the experiences you had, but not the you that had them. 
You might protest, how could I not be aware that it was I having these experiences? For instance, it is true that when I look at the computer in front of me, what I was aware of was the computer not me. But in another sense I was aware that it was me seeing the computer. It just isn?t possible to detach myself from the experience, which is why there is no special awareness of ?I?, only an awareness of what I am aware of.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Even if everything around you is a dream or an illusion, you must exist to have the dream, to do the hallucinating . So if you turn your mind inwards and try to become aware only of yourself, it shouldn?t take long to find it.


I wouldn't have put it quite that way, but I entirely agree with sentiments. Great post.


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum.

I have to believe this.

Bailee


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## IMSojourner (Nov 4, 2006)

For many people, this line of thought leads inexorably to one conclusion: that we exist within something that is greater than ourselves.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2007)

IMSojourner said:


> we exist within something that is greater than ourselves.


What exist within ourselves which is lesser?


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