# "Einstein's God" - nothing is simple



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

I posted this is the "Religion/Stupid thread". I think I subscribe to this, and hence return to being something akin to this. An atheist -- not believing in a traditional God, but an agnostic -- believer of perhaps an unknown "greater power" or "meaning" in the universe. No one can be pidgeon holed really, unless one is completely firm in one's beliefs.

There are many such people, and many others who are dangerous fundamentalists. Again, that is where I see danger in any fundamentalism.

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtop ... 395#103395

*Einstein: His Life and Universe*
Walter Isaacson
2007

Chapter Seventeen
Einstein's God
Pages 384-393

General info: As a child in a secular Jewish household who later attended a small Christian school he became religiously fervent. He adhered to all Jewish rituals and rules -- shabbat, Jewish holidays, no pork, etc.

He subsequently rejected his religious fervor until over the years he became more amazed with the workings of the universe.

**Also, side note, he never failed math as a child. That is an urban myth or legend.* - I believed that myself. Einstein found that rather amazing and amusing as he had made it into Ripley's Believe it Or Not for that, lol.
*
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*Questions posed [by George Vierek - descendant of Nazi sympathizers!] and Einstein's answers:*

Q: "To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?"
A: "As a child I received instruction in both the Bible and the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene."

Q: "You accept the historical existence of Jesus?"
A: "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."

Q: "Do you believe in God?"
A: "I am not an atheist. The problem is too vast for our limited minds ... We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."

Q: "Is this the Jewish concept of God?"
A: "I am a determinist. I don't believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe that man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew."

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"Throughout his life, he was consistent in deflecting the charge that he was an atheist; 'There are people who say there is no God ... but what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.'"
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*Einstein - in a letter to a friend:*
"The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who - in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses' - cannot hear the music of the spheres."

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His belief in a God who is a father-like figure was the result of "childish
analogies"

A: [To a long question, lol] *"You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional athiest whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination in youth ... I prefer the attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and our own being."*

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*Einstein*
"Science can be created only by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding ... This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion."

*"The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."*
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Q: "Do you believe ... that humans are free spirits?
A: *"No I am a determinist. Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control ... human beings ... [he lists everything from insects to stars] ... we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible player." *

*Einstein:*
"The most important human endeavor is the striving for morality in our actions ... [in a letter to a minister] ... Our inner balance and even our existence depend on it. Only morality in our actions can give beauty and dignity to life."


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## FightingDepression (Aug 23, 2007)

Einstien was an atheist.. do some more research and you'll know.
Most of his statements about God are made up.

In few years from now people will say Stephen Hawking belived in God just because he talked with the pope.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

FightingDepression said:


> Einstien was an atheist.. do some more research and you'll know.
> Most of his statements about God are made up.
> 
> In few years from now people will say Stephen Hawking belived in God just because he talked with the pope.


*You are saying that Einstein said none of the things that people heard him say? Or are you saying he was lying when he said/wrote them? Who made up these statements? Einstein or someone else?*

You are correct that Einstein was an atheist. The definition of atheist simply means not believing in an anthropomorphized god... like Zeus, Allah, Amon Ra, Christ, etc. I would then consider myself an atheist. I am not sure any more if I believe in some "higher power" which is not THEISTIC or "god like" ... I think of it more as ... I don't know. Many days I think there is nothing out there and we're dead when we're dead.

But again, who knows? And that is the agnostic part of me.

Yes, Einstein was an atheist in the purest sense, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a sense of wonder and of the "spiritual". He also says "I'm not an atheist." The term is misused there.

Are you saying he was pretending to be a determinist to placate people? Which I suppose is possible, but he was a tough cookie and not the first person in history to be atheist. In his early life as a young boy he was extremely religious and faithful, studied the Bible in depth, etc. (Jewish)

And I don't see his scientific brilliance in conflict with a more complex concept of our existence. Carl Sagan was an atheist and we still recognize him as that. Many great philosophers and scientists and others were/are outspoken atheists and their history hasn't been rewritten.

I find life a complete mystery. Organized religion gives me no answers or comfort. However, I also have that "sense of wonder."

My point is, I've come to beleive that fundamentalist anything is not constructive -- I've stopped believing in X is THE answer to anything. Life is too unpredictable. It is purely divisive. sp?

*Also, most interesting about Einstein. He didn't believe (or so he said) in Free Will. I'm not sure what to make of that. He could simply be refering to the fact that we are subject to the "laws of the universe" in a very basic scientific way, or he could believe there is "something" at work. I'm not sure yet what he meant. But it is important that he said that.

I have mainly been debating against Fundamentalism in these threads I guess. And my views keep changing. They evolve. I finally understood Churchill's famous statement the other day, and find I have to be more open to different ideas....

"Consistency is the hobgoblin of simple minds."

Who knows?*
D


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

How do you know his words are "made up?" This is from a recent, respectable, extremely well-researched biography. Is there a conspiracy to actually pretend Einstein wrote these letters? Made such statements to the public? You're saying what we've heard over and over, and some people heard him say during his lifetime is a lie?

Well, I'm not going to argue this as again I also don't like conspiracies.

I think I agree with Hawkings that we must move to the Moon or Mars or whatever. The Earth has gone to Hell. Sad.


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## FightingDepression (Aug 23, 2007)

Einstein viwe was very scientiftic.
About free will, it's not entirely true.
if I remember correctly, in his view, since the big bang things happended.
Everything obeyd the laws of physics
So you could calculate how everything will end up.
Nothing is really truely random.. since all started in a certain way, everything will go in a following path.

It's like a kid who is abonded young and lives in the street is more likely to be involved in a crime.

It's all data.

We have "free will" that is based on emotions, how we lived, how we were raised.. it's not really as free as we think.. just same programming.

Of course the path will be (unless some divine interference will happen) to one day figure out how to cure death, live at the stars and probably even bend all the universe laws to our will.

But how can you call it our free will? if since ancient times humans were programmed to die and suffering, of course they want something else.

But if nothing is up to us and all scripted ahead? no way, the future does not exist yet. and the past is already gone. time travel mahcines will never be made.

The universe does not have time and does not need time.. that's a misconception made by humans over the years.

And if the future was premade, someone must have been before everything to write the scripts.

Stephen Hawking combination of Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity is the best model ever so far.
Shame people don't like to believe him when he says the universe could had been created spontanusly out of nothing when quantum prove it's possible.

And New Age theorists so far mostly worked on philosophy and lies.
Last time I looked at their writings they claimed to have proven existence of wormholes in the human brain which is nonesense both physics and evolution.

And if psychic was an actual real phenomena, it was proven already.
You have billions of people on this planet and many of them think telekenessis exists yet not one will go to show it to the science community?
That's why I like JREF Prize.. 1 million dollars, just show us it's real.
http://www.randi.org/

I feel like the New Age is trying to pull us back into the Dark Ages.. same for those wh otry to stop biology researchs like stem cells, nanotechnology and genetics..

Humans are mostly suicidal :/


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