# PET Scan



## johnnyz (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm just curious to see if anyone here has been lucky enough to have a PET scan to help diagnose their DP/DR. There are two specific areas of the brain which show abnormally low and high glucose utilization, and are strikingly common to those with DP/DR.

It's an expensive test, and my insurance won't cover it, so before I spend the money out-of-pocket I'd like to get other's opinions.

Thanks!


----------



## ed (Sep 27, 2007)

I've just had a CAT which was "normal" and two EEGs which weren't normal, especially the second which showed "epileptiform features".


----------



## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I've had the SPECT but not the PET


----------



## AlexXD (Jan 6, 2008)

ed said:


> I've just had a CAT which was "normal" and two EEGs which weren't normal, especially the second which showed "epileptiform features".


I've had both an MRI and an EEG, both of which came out completely normal...


----------



## jchebert1979 (Apr 4, 2008)

I had a PET scan. It showed "symetrical decreased uptake in both temporal regions". I still am not certain that I have DP though. I cannot feel my emotions, my vision is a little off, and I get anxiety when I can feel how I should be feeling, but I don't get all philosophical with everything like I see a lot.


----------



## letsgetbetter (May 29, 2008)

What would you gain by looking at a picture of your brain? They don't just go in there and start making bits of it light up again....YOU DO!!!!


----------



## stephanie3 (Nov 5, 2008)

i've had a catscan, eeg, and mri and they are all normal...


----------



## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Would someone please sum up the different brainscans, too many abbreviations. Tnx in advance.


----------



## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Inzom said:


> Would someone please sum up the different brainscans, too many abbreviations. Tnx in advance.


In brief (really simplified explanations here):

CT and MRI are to look at the structure of the brain. So you'd see tumors or any physical abnormalities. CT is less expensive but has poor resolution. MRI uses magnets and has a higher resolution.

EEG and MEG measure electrical and magnetic impulses created when neurons in our brain fire. They essentially show what kind of activity is going on in our brain in terms of electrical activity - the results come out as waves on a chart. There are certain 'normal' levels of brain waves that a person should experience during consciousness (and we also cycle through a bunch during sleep).

PET (and SPECT) inject the person with a radioactive substance. I have no idea what the science is behind it, but it is able to show what areas of the brain are active. Your PET image is then compared to the 'average' PET image to determine if there are any abnormally active areas. SPECT is much less expensive but has no where near the accuracy of PET.

Finally, fMRI is what is considered the best functional brain scan. It measures brain activity as well by looking for areas in the brain that have high levels of oxygenated blood (areas with high activity require large levels of blood with oxygen and nutrients in it). It has high temporal and spatial resolution so it can actually tell what part of your brain is active while you do certain activities or are stimulated in particular ways.

It's been years since I've had any of these tests but I think it was CT and EEG that I had back in the day and both were normal as well. This was before DP though - just when I was experiencing extreme levels of anxiety.


----------



## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Thank you very much.


----------



## York (Feb 26, 2008)

You can look at your brain in any state and see what chemicals are released. Unless there is a biological cause for your dp, like epilepsy, it's no point getting a scan. People (often scientists) who claims chemicals are making us all what we are, weather it's feeling love or fear, is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion. Sure, every psychological/spiritual experience will have a physical counterpart, but this doesn't mean they are caused BY them. They CAUSE them. 
To say your brain is inhibiting the uptake of some substance, is just a way of saying it's responding to something you think or feel. YOU are in control, never forget that. Relax and give your brain a hug.


----------



## RaoulDuke (Mar 17, 2009)

I have had two EEG's and one MRI and everything was normal except for ONE SPIKE on the second EEG, but both the technician and the doctors concluded that the spike wasn't anything serious or any kind of abnormality. If I remember correctly they were " unable to determine the cause of the spike" or something of that nature. And besides it was only One spike, not a succession.


----------



## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Right now I feel like if I took any of those tests there would be zero signature readings. If I have a brain it sure aint making me aware of it atm.


----------



## York (Feb 26, 2008)

> they were " unable to determine the cause of the spike"


Is that like the frequency of your brainwaves or something? What is that supposed to tell? Epilepsy? Maybe you were thinking about something that made your brain jump to upper Beta for a second...


----------



## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

I just had a PET study of my brain done. I have the pictures on CD and can view them with a DICOM viewer.....kinda neat but i am not sure what to look for. There is definitely much less activity(coloration) on the right side of my brain on some images. A report is being done based on the PET and an MRI I had previously. Should have the results next week. My neurologist ordered the study although I had to pay for it. In addition to depersonalization(or related) is the strange, even bizarre way in which i experience my body. I do have an asymmetry where my right side is smaller/weaker and the depersonalization seems to exacerbate the way I perceive it. I have had anxiety and OCD since i was in my mid teens....depersonalization since my early 20s. I am 43 now. The most disturbing thing other than the usual symptoms of blunt emotions, mind feeling blank, etc. is the way in which my body feels to me, and it varies quite a bit even within a day. Very disturbing. Anyway, if anyone here wants to see my PET images let me know, ill be glad to share em.


----------



## Hoffy (Apr 26, 2009)

Aloof, how much did the PET study run you if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## aloof (Nov 18, 2008)

It cost $2300, plus radiologist and whatever other fees, which should amount to a few hundred dollars. Interestingly when i pre-registered they told me my insurance was paying some of it.....so far i have only paid $730. We shall see how this shakes out I am expecting to have to pay the whole amount since it was not screening for cancer or Alzheimer's. Some other places I called wanted $4000-5000 for a PET study of the brain...quite a range.


----------



## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Bumping an old thread here, I am wondering which one of these tests would use a "Gamma Camera" Because I might be getting a "Cerebral Bloodflow" checkup and they inject you with some radioactive trackingfluid and then use said camera. I guess im wondering if Sweden is just 40 years behind or if this is the standard equipment.

Edit: PET/SPECT it seems.


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2010)

york said:


> You can look at your brain in any state and see what chemicals are released. Unless there is a biological cause for your dp, like epilepsy, it's no point getting a scan. People (often scientists) who claims chemicals are making us all what we are, weather it's feeling love or fear, is putting the cart before the horse in my opinion. Sure, every psychological/spiritual experience will have a physical counterpart, but this doesn't mean they are caused BY them. They CAUSE them.
> To say your brain is inhibiting the uptake of some substance, is just a way of saying it's responding to something you think or feel. YOU are in control, never forget that. Relax and give your brain a hug.


*Dear York,*
Wanted to respond to this. In most mental illness, in actual research studies where the brains of those with a mental illness are compared with controls ("healthy brains") or say there are three comparisons:
1. People w/OCD
2. People w/DP/DR
3. Healthy controls

...*differences are seen*, I'd say especially on fMRIs where different areas of the brain "light up" or "don't light up" in response to stimuli given to all test subjects. Conclusions would indicate brains with certain disorders, including DP/DR RESPOND DIFFERENTLY under circumstances that are IDENTICAL between test subjects.

*The fact that we don't understand what these things mean, doesn't mean we are "doing this to ourselves." For example we know that clinical depression, OCD, bipolar, schizoprhenia, etc. are illnesses individuals do not have control over w/out some form of therapy/meds, etc.* In some cases here, where DP/DR are the direct result of panic attacks say ... CBT CAN help an individual CONTROL and minimize and possibly eliminate the symptoms. In my case where I don't get a "break" from DP/DR anymore, it's just always there, there is no opportunity to "start over" and even "remember how to get back to what is normal." I am not anxious, but am DP/DR right now. There is nothing I can do to "undo" the feeling. I'm not even thinking existential thoughts, or all the other stuff I used to. And this occurs in epilepsy, stroke, migraine, tumors, trauma, etc.

Also, there is more and more evidence that genetics, and genomes that turn genes "On and Off" are implicated. And there is a recent finding that in bipolar there is some gene that has affected circadian rhythm in an individual. This is way to complicated to reduce to what we see on any scan right now, though it leads us in a specific direction.

*To the OP:*
Also, I would say, that without having a "baseline" view of one's brain -- if doing this out of a research situation -- what you would find MIGHT not be of any use at all. Everyone's brain is unique, and as noted unless there is something MAJOR that is wrong, it could fall within a normal spectrum -- or the instruments are not advanced enough to see what's going on. Post-mortem dissection and creating altered states during mandatory surgery leads to better info. But using a live subject during surgery or during an implant ... well the individual has no choice and agrees to other tests for the benefit of research.

I believe, the PERCEPTUAL DISTORTION of DP/DR is like phantom limbs, or deja vu, or an aura during a seizure, Capgras Syndrome, Cotard's Syndrome. This are "neurological events." Whether one gets terrified and "stuck" or copes better, and depending on severity and chronicity ... well we're again all unique.

Example re: my mother w/Alzheimer's I tell now and again:

1990 -- (five years after I knew something was wrong with her) .... EEG says "possible dementia." Go figure, I didn't know they could see that on an EEG. But a CAT showed "normal."
1992 -- CAT shows changes in ventricle size indicating something going wrong in her brain (dementia), but the EEG was NORMAL.
The CATs and EEGs were read by 4 separate doctors. And it was helpful my mother had TWO scans ... to see a change.

I would say, unless there are other symptoms indicating epilepsy, tumor, etc. -- and these would be obvious to a neurologist ... IDK ... it seems like a lot of money to spend as subsequently no one would be able to do anything with the information. No one can properly treat depression -- there is no "cure." There is improved quality of life. Same with schizoprhenia, or OCD, etc. If they can't figure those out ... DP/DR are far down the list.

That isn't to say every case here is hopeless. Also, it isn't to say that lifestyle changes don't help.

Also, if it were less expensive and told me more I would have these tests, or if someone wanted me for research I'd do them. Unfortunately I don't fall into research criteria -- being on medications for instance could skew the results. I will NOT go off my meds as without them, I can't live.

Yes, we have SOME control over how we deal with this. Some have BETTER coping skills, others don't. But do we make ourselves "feel" deja vu? No, it is a perceptual glitch. DP/DR as I see it is some fight/flight mechanism that has gone awry, or ... who knows. Something has gone wrong with body schema as in phantom limb pain.

Though we are all desperate for answers, they just aren't out there yet. And we are dealing with the most complex organ in the body. We aren't dealing JUST with "chemical imbalance" we are dealing with a million other things re: how the brain works. Neurology. Very complicated.

YMMV.
Cheers,
D


----------



## Guest (May 20, 2010)

letsgetbetter said:


> What would you gain by looking at a picture of your brain? They don't just go in there and start making bits of it light up again....YOU DO!!!!


Actually what I just posted is more directed at this post. Sorry. York I always seem to be picking on you, and I don't intend to as you often have great responses to things. Forgive.

Think of animals, think of us as complex animals. We are in many ways programmed by instincts and methods of functioning geared towards survival. Also, mental illnesses are usually extensions/distortions of normal feelings/mood/cognition. What makes us sexually attracted and makes us FEEL things. We react to certain given mechanisms to procreate. Our brains take in input, process it, and determine if someone is a proper mate for us. Very simplistic. We are in a dangerous situation, our bodies switch on "protective mechanisms" -- our hearts pump faster, our digestion slows, we become more vigilant/focused ... our brains are helping us survive. Our brains make us BREATHE ... we don't consciously breathe. Etc.

But since we THINK, we add all of this other stuff into the mix. Our emotions can be set off by an event, or we can already have an illness that is exacerbated by certain events, etc. And some people have absolutely no clue about any mental illness and think we/anyone with such a problem aren't "strong enough" are "making it up" are "weak" are "using it as an excuse" etc.

Sorry, I'm definitely more of a biological reductionist.
Again, IMHO.
On the other hand, I'm not telling anyone to NOT get ANY test they want. My only concern is ... then what? There is no specific treatment for DP. This is known to neurologists. Unless you have a tumor that can be removed, or seizure activity that can be controlled with meds, etc.... we have to experiment ourselves re: what works and keep supporting research into all brain disorders.


----------

