# Inositol, choline, sub-B complex has stopped working



## dragonhat (Oct 5, 2009)

Going from the suggestion of Tommygunz, 12 days ago, on the 6th, I bought some inositol, choline, and a sublingual B complex. I also started taking a fish oil supplement.
I'm taking the fish oil omega 3 supplement, 1500 mg inositol spread through the day, 600 mg choline, and the sublingual B which has a whole slew of B vitamins.
I noticed what felt like dramatic improvements in the first couple days. My mood lifted, it got easier to concentrate, I just felt like I was in an overall better place. I had a couple semi-extreme DP moments, or possibly anti-DP moments, I'm not sure. Colors got brighter, sounds got louder, it was a lot for my brain to process.
It felt for a while like something, some invisible "wall" in my head was straining to break.

But then... after the first week, it just sort of leveled off. Now, I feel like I'm back at the beginning. I can't tell if I kept any improvements I felt in the first few days, or if I went back to my pre-supplement phase.
I'm frustrated because Tommygunz had such a good recovery from his symptoms. I have had it for longer than him though, he was at about 6 months, while I'm on 8 years. Maybe it will just take longer for me, or maybe its so ingrained in my brain at this point that it won't go away until it works itself out, maybe in another 8 years or so.

I'm frustrated, and I still feel nothing.

So... sorry Tommygunz, I'm glad it worked for you and I hope it works for others on this board. I'll keep taking the supplements until I run out, but it looks like I'm your first failed experiment.


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## Tommygunz (Sep 7, 2009)

read my new post and add the rest of the combo, it should give the boost you need. i realized through my research that the initial formula would plateau at some point. the rest of the ingredients complete the combo for a potential full recovery, and if not full at least much more than the original complex, also there is a "dry" period where the B vitamins kind of peek out and the inositol choline hasn't fully kicked in yet, i just hit the 4 week mark and my progress is speeding up.  don't give up hope, this will take more time, allow 2 months before concluding results.


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## cBURT (Aug 6, 2009)

Many people in the western world have chronic nutritional deficiencies and a surplus of toxic waste stored in adipose tissue. I would recommend reading Clear Body, Clear Mind by L Ron Hubbard and going through with the protocol, if possible.

Just a recommendation, do with it what you please.

I'm on day three and it's working beautifully.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Scientology LOL.

I truly feel sorry for you cBURT if you have been lured into scientology, haha oh man, a healthbook by L Ron Hubbard, the creator of Scientology who have openly admitted that his book that the whole pseudo-religion of Scientology is based on, is just fiction.


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## DownTheRabbitHole (May 30, 2009)

if somethings working for him man, dont try and bring him down,

if DP symptons clear because you have faith to believe something is working whether it be religion,diff diet, supplements, ie sort of like a placebo effect perhaps. then we shouldnt try and stump there beliefs in it.


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## dragonhat (Oct 5, 2009)

NumbNeo said:


> if somethings working for him man, dont try and bring him down,
> 
> if DP symptons clear because you have faith to believe something is working whether it be religion,diff diet, supplements, ie sort of like a placebo effect perhaps. then we shouldnt try and stump there beliefs in it.


The methods outlined in many of L Ron Hubbards books have been proven to be dangerous. He recommends such massive doses of vitamins that taking them in the quantities suggested can be fatal. Their methods of drug rehabilitation have been proven scientifically false, and dangerous to the addict. People have died in rehab centers run by Scientology.

While I don't doubt a lot of people in the world have vitamin deficiencies, I'm not going to take advice from a science fiction author on how to fine tune my body. I don't know why he chose to single out Westerners as having chronic vitamin deficiencies. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Westerners did, but for the most part, we eat better than most of the world. With 1 billion people living in starvation, with people all throughout Africa and Asia dying of starvation, I think its funny (but understandable) that L Ron Hubbard would target western nations with having vitamin deficiencies in his book. I say understandable because its all part of the shtick- he's gotta market to western nations, so its Westerners that have these mysterious deficiencies.



Tommygunz said:


> i just hit the 4 week mark and my progress is speeding up.


I'm confused dude, you told me several times around the 6th to the 9th that your DP/DR was totally gone, how you could barely ever tell you had it, etc. What do you mean your progress is speeding up if your recovery felt complete 10 days ago?


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## cBURT (Aug 6, 2009)

I have no religious beliefs. In fact, until this happened to me I was a staunch materialist with no appreciation for any metaphysical ideas. I'm even a published scientist (If you would like copies of my articles I can link you to the pubmed abstracts).

However, I understand your fears about certain ideas.

And though I don't particularly appreciate Hubbard's supercilious pretense, I encourage you to read the book.


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## cBURT (Aug 6, 2009)

deleted


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## cBURT (Aug 6, 2009)

For anyone that might be interested:

Some case studies presented at Hunter College:

detoxacademy.org/pdfs/Maulfair_abstractDOTpdf

Peace. Good luck to everyone.


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## cBURT (Aug 6, 2009)

Dragonhat,

I never said anything about Hubbard targeting western nations specifically. That was your own conclusion, mistakenly drawn from my use of the phrase.


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## dragonhat (Oct 5, 2009)

I didn't mistakenly draw it from your phrase, its a fact that his target audience were western nations.

There's not a very big Scientology following in India or Thailand.

I didn't mean to insult you, but I don't think I would take advice from a sci-fi author on how to care for my body. I'd see a nutritionist. And I don't really see how you being published has much bearing on anything. And what kind of scientist are you?


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## cBURT (Aug 6, 2009)

Dragonhat,

Well, according to you, my scientific accomplishments are of no consequence. I'm not insulted, nor am I advocating Scientology or any other metaphysical idea. I'm only attempting to reveal the flaws in your logic. To be quite honest, I don't care what you do with yourself or this condition. I have simply made great strides experimenting on myself with scientifically validated methods of detoxication and nutritional balancing and would like to share my findings with others who are suffering in the event that they wish to take control of their health.


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## dragonhat (Oct 5, 2009)

And what, exactly, were the flaws in my logic?

I didn't derive that Hubbard targeted a western audience because you said Westerners suffer from vitamin deficiencies.

I said he mentions that Westerners suffer from vitamin deficiencies because his target audience were westerners.

And you didn't mention what type of scientist you are. Do you have a masters degree, a Ph.D., or just a bachelors? I can't judge the validity of your views on the merits of detoxification techniques that have been proven risky to human health without knowing your credentials.

This article in specific, points out the many flaws in the ideas outlined by L Ron Hubbard, by people with credentials from places like Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons.
The studies that have been done showing improvements through L Ron Hubbard's methods lack the required sample size for studies to be shown statistically significant, they lack well-matched control groups, and "other basic elements of experimental design". They point out that taking spoonfuls of oil make it unlikely that fat reserves containing toxins will be broken down, that niacin is frequently used to LOWER blood lipid levels (the opposite of what Hubbard is claiming the method achieves), and that taking doses of niacin as high as Hubbard recommends will damage the liver, and that the doses recommended are "totally irrational and dangerous". Also, the claim that toxins can be effectively eliminated through sweat is suspicious at best, as many toxins are not water soluble. If a toxin is fat-soluble (like the ones Hubbard claims this process eliminates) they couldn't be eliminated through sweat.

So I ask again.... WHAT TYPE OF SCIENTIST ARE YOU? Are you a doctor at Columbia?
Yes I question your methods and your credentials.
L Ron Hubbard's claims are based on nothing but anecdotal evidence, and if you were a scientist, you would know that means "jack squat".

(I can't post the link but its the first that pops up if you google "scientology detox")

Some favorable articles have been written about this approach by apparently well-credentialed physicians. However, according to James Dillard, an assistant clinical professor at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons and clinical director of Columbia's Rosenthal Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, there is a "disconnect" between the studies described in many of these articles and the conclusions presented. The studies themselves typically lack adequate sample sizes, well-matched control groups, randomization, and other basic elements of experimental design; Dillard calls them "anecdotal," at best. (And some report particularly peculiar findings; according to this study, after roughly three weeks of detox, program participants' IQ scores rose by an average of 6.7 points.)

A number of well-credentialed doctors also sharply criticize the scientific reasoning offered by Hubbard supporters. (This article focuses on Nyamekye and Hubbard's interpretation, but for other theories about how the program works, click here.) Consider first how the regimen purports to mobilize fat reserves. While it is possible to release stored fat through weight loss, the specific emphasis on weight maintenance?and the daily spoonfuls of oil?make it unlikely that significant reserves will be broken down. The use of niacin, too, is open to significant question. Robert Knopp, professor of medicine and director of the Northwest Lipid Research Clinic at the University of Washington, says that niacin is often used clinically (in doses of 1,000 mg to 3,000 mg) to lower patients' blood-lipid levels?the very opposite of what the Hubbard method seeks to achieve. Dr. Knopp adds that at doses above 3,000 mg there is a real risk of niacin toxicity?particularly of liver damage. To prescribe such high doses for any reason is "totally irrational and dangerous," said Knopp.

Furthermore, the assumption that virtually any toxin can be eliminated effectively through sweat is also questionable. The dust at Ground Zero contained a wide array of poisons, including lead, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, polychlorinated biphenyls, dioxins, and asbestos, in addition to pulverized cement and glass. Some doctors do argue that small quantities of metals, including lead, may be released in sweat. Larger, lipid-soluble toxins such as PCBs, PAHs, and dioxins, however, are generally not eliminated this way, in part because sweat is a water-based medium. (It may be possible to detect traces of fat-soluble toxins in skin oils, though this does not mean that bulk quantities of these substances are removed by this route.) And certainly asbestos, which lodges in the delicate tissue of the lungs, cannot be removed by heavy sweating. Indeed, even Keith Miller, spokesman for the New York Rescue Workers Detox project and a long-time Scientologist, concedes that the regimen was never meant to address toxins or irritants in the lungs or to help patients with respiratory problems?the complaints most prevalent among former rescue workers.


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

According to scientology (what an insult to Science that name is) we have aliens stuck in our bodies. Need I say more.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Inzom said:


> According to scientology (what an insult to Science that name is) we have aliens stuck in our bodies. Need I say more.


That makes perfect sense as to why I feel the way I do then :mrgreen:


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## Rein (Apr 29, 2008)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Inzom said:
> 
> 
> > According to scientology (what an insult to Science that name is) we have aliens stuck in our bodies. Need I say more.
> ...






*calls John Travolta...


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## dragonhat (Oct 5, 2009)

I guess cBURT self-destructed after I pointed out the flaws in HIS logic.


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