# John Paul II



## Guest (Apr 2, 2005)

This is not to be construed as a religious post. More so than many here, I am not a particularly religious person. 
On the other hand, whether you are Catholic, Hindu, Atheist, etc. John Paul II was a very important figure for the past quarter century. His tireless work for the ill - including the mentally ill, his pivotal involvement in the (relatively peaceful) fall of Communism in Europe and elsewhere, his eloquent use of political pressure in other areas - backed by 1.1 billion followers in his endless effort to promote human rights. His absolute refusal to change his stance on abortion and even the use of contraceptives........many things he did - whether we as individuals shared the same beliefs, had direct impact on many, many people. 
And, as a Catholic myself, I will remember him as a strong man, one who pursued what he believed in - without giving an inch, all while dealing with significant difficulties of his own, with grace and dignity.

May Pope John Paul II find peace with his God.


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## dreamcatcher (Sep 23, 2004)

*RIP pope john paul II*


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

dreamcatcher said:


> *RIP pope john paul II*


Amen to that. God bless him.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

I'm glad sc posted this. I am a woman without a religion, though I seek the spiritual where I can find it.

I agree wholeheartedly with what sc says in that this man was a man of great integrity, whether you agreed with him or not. Catholic or not.

As a mental health advocate I am forever grateful that Pope John Paul II was concerned about the mentally ill. His death comes at a very strange time for me. He is in my thoughts since my Catholic friend's suicide (after she took her mother's life) last December (a caregiver homicide-suicide). She was clearly seriously depressed. But there was a question of whether or not she should be buried in a Catholic cemetary.

Her and her mother's ashes were buried, next to her father and other family, in their Catholic cemetary, just this past Thursday. Sadly it was a family-only memorial, but I will visit the gravesite in the summer.

Oddly enough, I have (indirectly) Pope John Paul II to thank for this.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP96N30.htm

*"Whoever suffers from mental illness 'always' bears God's image and likeness in himself, as does every human being In addition, he 'always' has the inalienable right not only to be considered as an image of God and therefore as a person, but also to be treated as such", the Holy Father said on Saturday, 30 November, addressing participants in the international conference sponsored by the Pontifical Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health-Care Workers, on the theme: "In the Image and Likeness of God: Always? Illness of the Human Mind".

The link is a translation of the Pope's address, which was given in Italian.
Taken from:
L'Osservatore Romano
Weekly Edition in English
11 December 1996
L'Osservatore Romano is the newspaper of the Holy See.*

Thanks sc

May this great man rest in peace.
And so may my dear friend Pati and her mother, Mary.

D


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2005)

Let the record show that bad 'ol moderator sc deleted a response put here by Depersonalized. Something to the effect........."long live Communism, and I'm glad the little fuck is dead".

Just a reminder for the children out there - this site is for adults. Adults who understand sensitivity, and are able to at least pretend to have a little class. If you do not fit that profile, maybe you should move on.

As I clearly noted in the original post - this is not a religious thread. It is simply an acknowledgement of the passing of a very important individual.

Any more inflammatory garbage gets posted here and I'll delete the whole thing.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

+JMJ+

Dear Sc, 
Thank you for putting this up. It shows a great sensitivity to the issues which I think are important in this life. The posts in this thread are indicative of the class which make me proud to be part of a group of this caliber. Thanks Sc - your alright in my book.

Its hard for me to even put into words how I feel about this. I admit, I cried when I heard of his illness. I am priveliged to have lived in the past two decades of which he was pope. In all the history of the Catholic Church, there has never been a papacy of this magnitude. His writings fill 150 volumes, his trips extended to 125 countries. As someone else has said, if Karol Wojtyla had not become pope, he most certainly would have come down to us as one of the most influential thinkers of the 20th century. He was a renaissance man of the highest magnitude. He was a stage actor, a poet, an intellectual, a statesman, an orator, a philosopher, and a man of God. If there were one person whom I would most like to be like, it would be him. To have his wisdom, his prayerfulness, his compassion, his adept handling of world affairs, and his sense of purpose would indeed make a full life. May God have mercy on him, may He show His face to Him, and may perpetual light shine upon him. May he and all the faithful departed through the mercy of God rest in peace.

Veritas in Jesu Christe, 
Homeskooled


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

Despite being an agnostic myself I do think he did a lot of good things even though I disagreed with some of his more tradional views.

He undoubtadlly was a good man

I hope he got to see his pearly gates...


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## Axel19 (Aug 11, 2004)

I too am an agnostic. I think that he was one of the few good leaders in the world over the last 25 years, and whether you were Catholic or not he had a great deal of useful wisdom you could employ in your own life.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2005)

I am not a fan of organized religion at all, but I found Pope John Paul II to be a remarkable man - likely one of the few most significant forces of the 20th Century.

In particular, for ME, I admired his originality. Even while holding one of the most specific roles on the planet, he maintained and clearly showed his individuality. Ideas he carried out were his own, coming directly from the authentic person he was - creative and original. I think he was a powerful role model in that area - especially for other Catholics. He could urge being a member of a flock without sacrificing a strong personality and individual authenticity. He will leave a hard robe to fill, grin.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2005)

I have faith, and I think the Pope was really a good man. I hope he will find Out there what he spent his life searching and battling for . He really deserves peace.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2005)

Sorry guys, but I never liked him. In fact I found him to be a hypocrite.
Why?

Anti-gay
Anti-feminist and didnt want any women in a function in the Catholic church (which is ALSO discrimination).
Anti-condom use, which caused to spread AIDS in Africa even more
Anti-abortion
Anti-euthanasia

Didnt like him at ALL. But thats just my opinion. 

But hope he may rest in peace, he's human after all.
Sorry, I cant stand the man :? lol


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## Axel19 (Aug 11, 2004)

Wendy I do see your point, and this is the biggest problem I have with religious leaders. 
As an agnostic bordering on atheism I tend to ignore what religious leaders say about God, that we must honour him etc, because I'm not sure I understand who/what God is, nor do I have the energy anymore to even think about it. However I do feel that religious leaders, most notably the pope, do have a great deal of useful wisdom for everyone religious and non religious alike, including gay people. 
The problem I have lies in his disapproval of gay people. I think it goes without saying that homosexuality is as real as heterosexuality. So it makes perfect sense for straight people to accept gay people as they would anyone else. It also makes sense for the Catholic church not to permit gay marriage within their church. The bible states that Catholic marital union is specifically between man and woman. Whether you agree with this or not is besides the point, but Catholic marriage is, by definition, between a man and a woman.
So whilst Catholic leaders can provide useful wisdom for everyone, they draw a blank when it comes to homosexuality, and I don't quite know what to make of this. I don't know exactly what the pope said about homosexuality, but doubtlessly it conflicted with every gay person's personal views on their own sexuality.
That aside I'd probably agree with his views on the other areas you mentioned Wendy. I don't really have any fixed absolute opinions on those issues, because I'm anxious, dp'ed and think way too much. However I think it is the duty of life loving Catholics, and of course the pope to disapprove of abortion and euthanasia. He provides an absolutely pro-life view towards these issues which I think is essential. He was there to give words of encouragement to those who are faced with unwanted pregnancy, or those who want to die, and I think he did so very well.
As for Condoms, well it has actually been shown in certain African countries, that the best way of dealing with AIDS is celibacy and monogonous sexual union where a safe oppurtuniy presents itself. This is of course in keeping with Catholic teachings. This stance on contraception is of course debatable, but the pope provided a sound argument.
He was one of the few leaders who talked, for the most part, sense in the world over the last quater of a century.
If the moderators feel this reply is off the point of remembering Pope John Paul II then please do move it to its own post, thanks.

p.s.Even though I am an agnostic bordering on atheist, I did actually see the pope when he was in Toronto in 2002, on my mother's wishes. I'd actually had my first major weed three hour panic attack thingy just a week earlier and was too busy figuring out my new found dp to listen to him.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

Can I be an usher at your wedding, Wendy?

e


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2005)

I wish I wouldn't have started this thread :shock:

The point of this was simple - to acknowledge the passing of one of the most significant individuals to come along in a generation (any attempt to argue against the validity of that statement would be doomed to failure). It wasn't meant to be a religious, or political discussion. My fault I guess. I included both religious and political references in the original post. Difficult to avoid though considering the person involved.

Rather than continue to try to keep it hatred (and ignorance) free, however, I will gracefully exit. Give some of you a chance to show your true colors to the rest of the group anyway. 
I am, however, becoming bored with the pm's and will no longer read them. Please find a different mod to cry to. I am not in a very good place lately and to be honest need to limit negativity in my life to the extent possible. 
This is your group folks. If you have a problem with a particular member - show some kahonies and deal with it yourself.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2005)

I probably shouldnt have posted that, I reconsider. My apologies Sc.


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

mistake, sorry


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Wendy said:


> I probably shouldnt have posted that, I reconsider. My apologies Sc.


Why? You're allowed to have an opinion.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

I feel sorry that a human being died and suffered. That being said I think its ridiculous if you expect everyone to respect the pope. If I dont agree with the pope and the values he represents or the causes he tries to advance I find it in no way insensitive to not accept him as a person worthy of veneration. I don't think expressing this view is the least bit insensitive or inflammatory. People have a right to their opinion, even if it may seem harsh, as long as it isn't blatantly obscene or derogatory.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

Sebestion is correct Wendy, you are allowed to have an opinion. Although to be honest your comments seemed to be directed against the Catholic Church, not the Pope. You may want to check the Pope's record on championing human rights, including women's rights (all while working under the ridiculously stringent limitations of the Catholic Church). Anyway, you certainly have no need to apologize for your views. What you think is as valid as what anyone else thinks. Even if it isn't directly responding to the original subject matter.

Of course with that logic, that means everything posted here has been fine: "I'm glad the little fuck is dead". "He was a pathetic little shit from a pathetic little church". What else.........oh another "I'm glad he's dead." There was one other response I deleted too, something about "Fuck the Catholics". 
It's inciteful comments like those that can make a place like this special. 
Yep, freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. I apologize for deleting anything. If I've offended anyone by trying to keep this thread out of the gutter, including you Sebastion - my sincere apologies.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

You know...it's so sad really. Certainly ANYone and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your parents, for example, are entitled to call you a worthless piece of shit, if they choose. People are entitled to call you a value-less member of this world because you're mentally ill. People are free to say whatever is on their minds.

THe question is more of "is this appropriate?" given a time and place.

Nobody is taking away your freedom.

But in a world of respect and compassion, one does wonder why people CHOOSE to be incendiary.

IF we post something under someone's thread that is clearly going against the intent of the thread, we're free to do so. But it does say something about impulse control, I think. And it says something about passive aggressive hostility.

Let's not chant "freedom of speech" when things are really about something else.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

As much of a problem as I have had with religion at times, i believe that things like this really bring people together to stop and think about what's "right". For example, organized religions have very strict and seemingly weird rules but many of them are to help you understand the importance of your family and that your elders have been there before and there is nothing to hide. there are political aspects too...but i dunno...

i like religion as of late, although i still dont have a view on god, I have found a lot of comfort and friendship and family in my local temple, synagogue, and college Jewish group. In fact i would probably feel a little more lost- especially at school- if it weren't for individuals who had something in common with me

I just think it's ironic...when i was anit-religion, i was also blocking out things that i never thought could help me, such as family and friends. it all kind of went into the same hands...the blame, the generalizations, etc.

anyway just my thoughts

and for the most part, we should still respect (most) of our elders (such as the pope); we don't know what its like to have lived as long as they did or do and to have to make certain decisions especially at the helms of large organizations.

ramble ramble


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

Indifference has taken over me. Another person died yeah yeah, God Bless R.I.P. Such a great life yeah yeah, touched so many people yeah yeah. We are truly sad for this loss yeah yeah.

(please save the 'you are an insensitive prick comments.' Anyone who sais they are not indifferent to death and destruction is probably lying to themselves)


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Pure Narcotic said:


> Anyone who sais they are not indifferent to death and destruction is probably lying to themselves


Well, I wholly agree with Janine's points, no need to repeat them. This thread is *about a man -- one man*, an historical figure, a person who was a political figure, a human rights activist, etc., etc., aside from the fact that he was the Pope.

I personally am *not* "indifferent to death", is that what you are saying Narcotic? I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic? Forgive if I'm misinterpreting your post.

I hate to say this, but it doesn't matter how old you are, you can be touched by death. When you lose a best friend, when you lose a parent ... I'm not sure what you're saying. I know of people who had NO parents, or one, or whose sibling died in an auto accident, who lost a husband to cancer.

And perhaps this is because I am older, though to be honest I would never have responded to this thread the way *some, not everyone* have -- at ANY age, with cruelty essentially. I am really stunned by what sc said he had to delete.

I want to say, well, "When you're my age..." (I know :roll: ) you start seeing people die. Famous people and not so famous -- people who touched your life in one way or another. Presidents, talk-show hosts, authors, artists, actors, astronauts, inventors, scientists -- think of any person you've admired or looked up to -- all manner of people that meant something to you.... or perhaps someone you disagreed with but he/she touched your life in some way. Taught you something.... or made you think in a different way. And you will never forget that person.

These are milestones in life. Markers of time, and they remind you how short your lifespan is, how even your favorite rock star can die, your favorite teacher in high school.

We are talking about one man here. One human being. I keep thinking it's a matter of maturity in the way some respond but no, it's not.

Janine said it all, I won't beat a dead horse.

Sad indeed.
Nite,
D
ACH I don't know why I'm even posting this. Janine said it all. But the reactions are painful to me. Yeah, maybe when you're 25, or 35, or 45, some here will understand, or ... maybe .... never.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

I will be completely honest with you. If someone dies and I had no association with that person, then I feel indifferent towards it. I will think in my mind how sad and tragic it is, but will I feel anything towards it? Probably not. I can't help the way I feel. Maybe I am a product of being desensitized. I am going to be completely honest with people here. If you are offended by my honesty then that's your problem.

I think my post was a reflection of my feeling towards a big news event that involves death or destruction. I don't think my comments were aimed at the the pope per say. I do have an issue with this tough(as I think alot of people do).... I think the pope would've considered himself a humble man. I don't think he'd want all this attention drawn to his death. However, it is only natural for human's to do what they are doing right now and that is bringing attention to the fact that an icon, moviestart, whatever has passed on. There is no way around it and I accept that, but I have an issue with it nonetheless.

My other issue is that great people who touched lives die everyday and get no recognition. However, like I stated above, I realize there are no ways around some of the ways of this world, but it bothers me still.

In a nutshell: I am indifferent towards tragedy. I shouldn't just say death because i can be moved by it sometimes, but for the most part I am not phased about something I hear about 90 times everyday. If my mind didn't make me indifferent then i'd be a depressed loon who would see reality for what it is and that is one big tragedy. I'd probably blow my brains out when coming to this realization that my mind blocks out so well.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

And another thing Dreamer. Yes, I am young. I probably haven't experienced death to extent that you or others have. However, let me live life and don't criticize me for my feelings about humanity. We are all in different stages of emotional understanding and maturity. I think you should keep that in mind as we all should when reading people's posts.

Anyhow, God knows that I am not the only one who is desensitized. Chances are that you or anyone else your age or above had the same stance on death at my age. The reality is that death isn't really going to have a tremendous impact on you until it happens to someone you are associated with. I have been lucky in that I have been spared thus far, so let me enjoy my numbness and indifference while it lasts.


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## Axel19 (Aug 11, 2004)

> The reality is that death isn't really going to have a tremendous impact on you until it happens to someone you are associated with. I have been lucky in that I have been spared thus far, so let me enjoy my numbness and indifference while it lasts.


Pure Narcotic, I'd certainly agree with this. Furthermore I'd be lying if I said I was greatly touched by the pope's passing. However I do think it is important that we engage in a sort of ritual when someone dies, or something bad happens, regardless of whether or not we have feelings towards the tragedy. Why do I think this? Well I think Dreamer may have said something to the same effect before, but I think it is important to benchmark important events in life, even if the rituals themselves do seem a bit pointless to indifferent persons such us many of us secular folk may be.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Hmmm.

When the pope, as a human, or any human, suffers and dies with dignity then it makes me sad. I am impressed by his simple faith and his devotion to humanity. But, like others have said - I don't think it's neccessary to applaud him as a 'great man' because of some of his staunchly Orthordox views (as have been mentioned in previous posts - notably abortion and homosexuality). Done more harm than good, in my eyes.

Without appealing to emotional wonts, I admire the Aids ravaged rape victims of Africa, single mothers scraping a living from the desert with their singular faith, far more than the tedious sermonising of a dry old man, dripping with gold in St.Peters.

As a man, I'm sorry he's dead, and I'm sorry he suffered. But as a Pope at the head of a church that promotes such sickening ideologies, I'm glad he's dead. Sorry, but that's the way I feel. In the end, it's just one man. Just one in a world of billions. Each one of them is worthy of equal pity, if not more.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

My sympathy has nothing to do with what this man accomplished or represented(I never agree with his policies). I feel bad for him only because he was a human being. I have nothing against the Christian religion but I absolutely despise the Catholic church. I was lucky enough to live in a state where good ol' Father Porter resided. I also have a cousin that was raped by a priest.


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

sc said:


> Of course with that logic, that means everything posted here has been fine: "I'm glad the little f--- is dead". "He was a pathetic little sh*t from a pathetic little church". What else.........oh another "I'm glad he's dead." There was one other response I deleted too, something about "f--- the Catholics".
> It's inciteful comments like those that can make a place like this special.
> Yep, freedom of speech is a wonderful thing. I apologize for deleting anything. If I've offended anyone by trying to keep this thread out of the gutter, including you Sebastion - my sincere apologies.


Don't get smarmy with me. Seriously, I'm getting really sick of it.

I agree with what Janine said about it being a question of etiquette. Certainly it's rather insulting to publicly berate a man a day after his death, especially in an open, public forum. I mean, i bit my tongue when Ronald Regan died.

But it has to do with how an opinion is expressed. Wendy, bless her soul, went out of her way to say that she disagreed with the Pope's policies, etc. And i think she expressed her opinion with respect and dignity. My comments were meant to support her sc, not undermine what you did by deleting the other comments, which were clearly inappropriate.

So let's all just chill.

s.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

If you read my post re: the Pope's policies on mental illness, you will see that he was an important person to me in re: his concern for the mentally ill. If you read sc's post, he noted that this man -- *ASIDE FROM BEING THE POPE* -- contributed to history in significant ways, including fighting communism which was destroying his native Poland (among other countries.)

He also suffered from Parkinson's disease with dignity.

I am not crying over the man and I'm not sitting in front of the television set watching every minute of the news. I have read about his ailing health and death on my internet news.

At his death, I noted the passage of time. I noted what he had done that made a small difference in how my deceased friend was treated by her Polish Catholic Church.

Jeez, if you read sc's post ... I don't understand this.

It's like when Johnny Carson died. I didn't cry over the man, but I GREW UP with him. He was a fixture in my life, even though he wasn't someone I knew personally. His death made me sit up and say, "Wow, all that time has passed. And he contributed so much to television history."

When they retired the Concorde for goodness sake, I thought of how I was in high school when it first flew -- it was amazing to me and my friends. Such a technological wonder at the time. When it first crashed (once in its history I believe) I was stunned. I had always believed such a thing was impervious to failure.

It's like any huge event that makes you ponder existence, take measure of your life, what you've learned, what you don't know -- for instance I'd like to get a book out of the library and read more about the Pope and understand more about what it means to act as Pope. Just as curiousity to me.

When I was younger, I WAS affected by great events. I was moved by the Olympics, by space flight.

Sorry, beating a dead horse.
I guess no one really read sc's post, or my post at minimum. And did anyone read Homeskooled's post? Many may not agree w/Homeskooled, but he has the courage to express his feelings, just as Wendy did, at the risk of being attaked.

I am expressing surprise is all. And Narcotic, you clarified things when you said "tragedy" vs. death. Yes both occur every second of every day around the world. But these "greater than life" events are milestones. That's all i'm saying.... oh I can't explain my feelings. I give up.

Yes everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Etiquette got pitched along the way here.

It is amazing how many times I hesitate to express my opinion here, a board that is very important to me, because I know I will be attacked for my views. But I would never use the words that sc notes were deleted, in any post. If I ever have, I apologize.

Beating a VERY dead horse here.

If you don't understand, you don't understand.
I'm entitled to my reaction as well.
Ciao
D


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

Again, I apologize, and wish I wouldn't have started the thread. It has brought out too much latent anger, fear and self-loathing. 
Sometimes I forget this is a psych site on the Internet, and there are people here that have problems that go beyond DP/DR.

Problems that I am unable to understand.


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

As janine pointed out it is an interesting study of where everyone is at in accepting their own lives. Not that I have room to say that  but you know...


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

YOUR problem sc, is that you simply cannot tolerate differing opinions. Youve proven that time and time again in all of the threads you start. You state over and over that you hate free speech and my guess is because you simply dont like any comments that differ from yours. Any time you discuss religion your going to have differing opinions and conflicts because of it. From now on you should start the titles of your threads with a warning, "NO DIFFERENT OPINIONS ALLOWED!!"


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

sc said:


> Sometimes I forget this is a psych site on the Internet, and there are people here that have problems that go beyond DP/DR.
> 
> Problems that I am unable to understand.


I feel EXACTLY the same way.


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## Axel19 (Aug 11, 2004)

For God sake give sc a break.
He did start this thread, and he intended it to be in memory of John Paul II. The whole purpose of this thread was just that. Some replies were not entirely relevant to this, one of mine included. But the ones that remain are for the most part appropriate. Perhaps in a few of the posts that remain there is some unnecessarily emotive language. 
However I think sc was annoyed, and rightly so, at the replies that he deleted, and they have been dealt with.
The pope ended an oppresive communist regime in Poland,a nd for that alone he deserves to be remembered fondly.


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

The difference Axel, is that you're not distinguishing between his actions by deleting those posts, and his comments made toward me, which i felt were quite inappropriate. And this isn't the first time, believe me.

He insinuated that i was condoning those "bad posts" by offering a faux apology, in which he specifically mentioned my name. And the reason he did this was because of issues he has had with me for a long while. All i did was support Wendy, because i felt it was wrong that she felt that she had to apologize for expressing her beliefs (which she did in a very amicable manner). That's all.

s.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

Here is a rose garden for everyone here.


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## danny (Sep 2, 2004)

hahaha, my god, take a look at yourselves, please!!! I thought this a forum for for adults to dicuss their mental problems. :idea:

How old is everyone here


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

> How old is everyone here


5


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

danny said:


> hahaha, my god, take a look at yourselves, please!!! I thought this a forum for for adults to dicuss their mental problems. :idea:
> 
> How old is everyone here


oh, shut up.


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## Axel19 (Aug 11, 2004)

Well point taken Sebastian. My pointless reply wasn't really aimed at you. Actually I don't really hang around here enough to know what these arguments are about, so I probably shouldn't really comment. 
Though I will say that however people portray themselves on this boared probably doesn't reflect how they are in real life, so it's best not to get too personal.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I enjoy bickering; it reminds me that I'm human. Keep it up, I say.

There's a article in the Times today, with a 'cartoon' of a skeletal figure lying on a bed of rocks, with a caption saying: 'Lying in state, the millions of AIDS ravaged africans denied non-protective sex'.

To be honest, I agree with some of the more savage posts on this thread. I really don't give a rat's arse that he's dead. In fact, if a more liberal (ha!) pope takes over, then I'll be celebrating his death. This whole hysterical planetary mourning thing, like when Saint Princess Diana died, leaves a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. When a 'celebrity' or well known person dies, we all fall down on our knees and suck the tears from the cracks in the sidewalk. Yet we have to watch hours of comedy relief to force us to donate ?5 to save the life of millions of poor wretches in Africa and elsewhere. It's all so screwed up, so I'm not going to pretend I give a shit about the pope. Why should we mourn the death of a man who called homosexuality a 'disorder', opposed abortion (ok - that is a point of discussion), actively opposed the evil pharmaceutical companies subsidising the cost of the pill for third world countries? His 'church' has probably been indirectly, or directly, the cause of more misery and suffering than the sum of the worlds terrorist activities. Why War on Terror ? Why not War on the goddam church ?

End of ranr.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Wow. I'm sorry to see this.This isnt even worth arguing with. As a point of fact, Wendy had one of the more worthwhile posts on here. Martin, I'm ashamed that you would talk evil about _any_ dead person. At least Wendy had a post based on principle. I cant stress enough....The Pope was Catholic. He isnt going to become an Anglican. He isnt going to reverse Church Tradition, and neither will the next, or the next. The Dalai Lama isnt going to embrace Christianity. Its not his job to, and I dont expect him to. But if anyone posts that the they dont give a rat's arse about the Dalai Lama....that the Dalai Lama is a piece of shit....or that the Dailai Lama is a dead dry sermonising old man, I'll say the same I said here. And I'll say it again, and again, and again. If you cant respect the elderly, the dead, the moral, then how can you respect yourself? What platform are your rants standing on to deserve respect or worth? You dont need to respond to this, because I dont need to read it. Indigenous cultures even deify the dead - its natural to show respect to people passed on. We've sunk below that...this kind of hate is unnatural.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

OK, there, without the rambling on my part, Homeskooled said it all.
Amen.



Homeskooled said:


> Wow. I'm sorry to see this.This isnt even worth arguing with. As a point of fact, Wendy had one of the more worthwhile posts on here. Martin, I'm ashamed that you would talk evil about _any_ dead person. At least Wendy had a post based on principle. I cant stress enough....The Pope was Catholic. He isnt going to become an Anglican. He isnt going to reverse Church Tradition, and neither will the next, or the next. The Dalai Lama isnt going to embrace Christianity. Its not his job to, and I dont expect him to. But if anyone posts that the they dont give a rat's arse about the Dalai Lama....that the Dalai Lama is a piece of sh*t....or that the Dailai Lama is a dead dry sermonising old man, I'll say the same I said here. And I'll say it again, and again, and again. If you cant respect the elderly, the dead, the moral, then how can you respect yourself? What platform are your rants standing on to deserve respect or worth? You dont need to respond to this, because I dont need to read it. Indigenous cultures even deify the dead - its natural to show respect to people passed on. We've sunk below that...this kind of hate is unnatural.
> 
> Peace
> Homeskooled


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