# *Trigger Warning* Diagnosed with Pseudoneurotic Schizophrenia



## cipher (Jan 25, 2011)

Hey ppl,

I have almost all of the symptoms of DP/DR. I met a doctor who happens to be Asia's Best neuro physician and psychiatrist. When I said I have depersonalization , he said this is all bullshit.. and asked me the symptoms.. He said that everyday ppl coin new terms about such illnesses.

Upon telling him my symptoms he diagnosed me with pseudoneurotic schizophrenia.. and told I may need a longer medication..

What do you say ppl ??


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

He said what is bullshit?? Depersonalization??

What are your symptoms??


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## snowcat3030 (Sep 30, 2010)

cipher said:


> Hey ppl,
> 
> I have almost all of the symptoms of DP/DR. I met a doctor who happens to be Asia's Best neuro physician and psychiatrist. When I said I have depersonalization , he said this is all bullshit.. and asked me the symptoms.. He said that everyday ppl coin new terms about such illnesses.
> 
> ...


So did he dismiss Depersonalisation as BS or said that it was BS that you had it? Also if you don't mind me asking can you please list all your symptoms?

BTW I found lots of information that says "Pseudoneurotic schizophrenia as a diagnostic entity has fallen out of clinical use."


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

snowcat3030 said:


> So did he dismiss Depersonalisation as BS or said that it was BS that you had it? Also if you don't mind me asking can you please list all your symptoms?
> 
> BTW I found lots of information that says "Pseudoneurotic schizophrenia as a diagnostic entity has fallen out of clinical use."


Yeah i did a brief search cause i have never heard of it before, from what i read it's an old name for schizotypal disorder


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## cipher (Jan 25, 2011)

well, symptoms :

I feel very strange when I think about my existence , like is it me and if it is me it is really strange. like i am in a loop.

I feel like I am in a dream though I know it is fact. Sometimes feel emotionally numb.

I sometimes feel that what i am seeing is something that i have made up in my mind.. but I know this is truth.

I encounter deja-vus..

and yes the doctor looked annoyed with the term "depersonalization".. He said he is aware of symptoms of Depersonalization but the term is bullshit. He said " A lot of people coin new words for same diseases".

This doctor is really good.. Every patient he sees never returns untreated. People here say he is GOD..
He has given me SULPITAC ( amisulpride )
and Sertaline ( for depression )


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

cipher said:


> well, symptoms :
> 
> I feel very strange when I think about my existence , like is it me and if it is me it is really strange. like i am in a loop.
> 
> ...


Just for clarification, cause it sounds like english isn't your first language, when you say '' I feel that i'm dreaming i know this is fact'' Do you mean that you believe without a doubt that you are in a dream world?? or are you saying you know that this is just a weird obsession.

If you are believing the weird thoughts then yeah it sounds like schizophrenia, and people with schizophrenia suffer DP aswell.

Is he saying all depersonalization is pseudoneurotic schizophrenia or is he pissed that people are labeling depersonalization a disorder when it's just a symptom of other conditions i.e anxiety, depression, epilepsy, schizophrenia etc

Also whats his name??


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## Angel_heaven (Jun 1, 2010)

New terms??? or is he new to the term? Maybe he doesnt even know what dp is so instead of making himself look stupid he linked it with something he studied. I went to many doctors and not all of them knew what they were talking about plus saying u need longer medication well thats the professional way of saying keep coming because i need money


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2011)

I would be concerned with this doctor. He could be of the old psychoanalytic school, but if he is he should know what DP is.

Also the word NEUROTIC was removed from the DSM ... the DSM-IV definitely, can't recall about the DSM-III.

_*"The American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has eliminated the category of "Neurosis", reflecting a decision by the editors to provide descriptions of behavior as opposed to hidden psychological mechanisms as diagnostic criteria.,[3] and, according to The American Heritage Medical Dictionary, it is "no longer used in psychiatric diagnosis".[4]"*_

The term is also not in the Merck Manual online. My guess is it is also not in the ICD-10/11 -- I forgot what number they're on -- International Classification of Medical Disorders.

The diagnosis implies that schizoprhenia is not biological. And the doctor is ignoring an extremely common symptom.

I would find a second opinion if you can.
This doctor seems very ill informed and trapped in the past.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2011)

pseudoneurotic schizophrenia

I can't find this in any current research.
Definitely this therapist is heavily influenced by OLD terms from psychoanalysis, and they are sadly out of date and not used in treatment.
I highly encourage you to find another therapist.

Also, does this person have an M.D.? If so, the person has less of an excuse for being misinformed, but it is not uncommon.


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## babybowrain (Aug 24, 2010)

Where in Asia are you from? Are you from China? I don't know how the rest of asia is but I heard that China isn't very advanced with psychiatry so I think he's one of those not very advanced doctors there. I too here have been told that "dissociation" is a nonesense internet word by some doctor (although I'm not in china lol). It is not true and there are doctors who recognize it/ understand it...


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## rob35235 (Feb 21, 2009)

Nobody in the world is advanced in psychiatry. It's all a huge mystery for the most part. What it sounds like to me is that he's telling you that you have something else because there is no treatment for DP/DR. Lots of times doctors treat us the way they do schizophrenic patients. That said, it sounds like your doctor is being patronizing about it...I don't respect anyone who isn't a strait shooter, and it sounds like he's manipulating your for his own convenience.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for changing your avatar!


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## Strangerdanger (Oct 3, 2010)

I think all psychologists know how to do is write prescriptions. sometimes all people need is someone to listen to and a lot of them have too many patients to even do that. I refuse to take medication and try to get better without them but thats my own personal opinion


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## codeblue213 (Feb 15, 2010)

Every doctor I've encountered either didn't know what DP was or they just didn't believe in it. But it is a real illness, maybe underlying depression or anxiety, but it still exists. I've never even heard of the phrase your doctor coined. It's not in the DSM-IV.


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## Jayden (Feb 9, 2011)

Well im a little bit freaked out now...

I searched up that type of schitzophrenia it was. And im not going to lie, i had some of the symptoms. They said something like "delusion idealization". Does that mean that you can think up delusions but not believe in to them?? cause it think a lot of us here that have a big fear of schitzophrenia are so obssessed with our thoughts that we can randomly make things up, doesnt mean we believe in them. also it says, discomfort in social situations. im not saying im scared of going into social situations but, yeah with constant dp, it can be sort of discomfortable in social settings.

The good news is that, that schitzophrenia type you said (cant remember how to spell it), would be considered "schitzotypal personality disorder these days, and i didnt really match up with too many of those.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

codeblue213 said:


> Every doctor I've encountered either didn't know what DP was or they just didn't believe in it. But it is a real illness, maybe underlying depression or anxiety, but it still exists. I've never even heard of the phrase your doctor coined. It's not in the DSM-IV.


Codeblue is correct that this diagnosis is not in the DSM-IV, the current Merck Manual, and I honestly don't think it was in the DSM-III.

The word "pseudo" as in "pseudo science" for example:

Definied: The prefix pseudo- (from Greek ψευδής "lying, false") is used to mark something as false, fraudulent, or pretending to be something it is not.

The term pseudoneurotic schizophrenia doesn't even make sense logically. If this was later changed to schizotypal sp? personality ... well.

The thing is this "diagnosis" does NOT exist. It is not a viable diagnosis that any doctor would use in this day. If it were used before the DSM-IV that would be before 1994.

Also, every doctor I have seen since I was 15 (in 1975) knew I had DP/DR. What is interesting is the doctors of that generation knew both psychoanalytic jargon, but were also being exposed to the new revelations that psychiatric disorders were biological.

The main, intelligent psychiatrists in my life know DP/DR. They know it as a secondary symptom, and some understand it can be chronic as in my case.

I would find another doctor. This doctor sounds terribly misinformed or not up to date at all. IMHO.

Good Luck.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

Jayd said:


> Well im a little bit freaked out now...
> 
> I searched up that type of schitzophrenia it was. And im not going to lie, i had some of the symptoms. They said something like "delusion idealization". Does that mean that you can think up delusions but not believe in to them?? cause it think a lot of us here that have a big fear of schitzophrenia are so obssessed with our thoughts that we can randomly make things up, doesnt mean we believe in them. also it says, discomfort in social situations. im not saying im scared of going into social situations but, yeah with constant dp, it can be sort of discomfortable in social settings.
> 
> The good news is that, that schitzophrenia type you said (cant remember how to spell it), would be considered "schitzotypal personality disorder these days, and i didnt really match up with too many of those.


GAH.
You shouldn't scare yourself like that. And it isn't a "type of schizoprhenia."

There is schizophrenia which manifests itself in various ways (catatonia, hebephrenic, etc.) but it is still essentially a very specific BIOLOGICAL/NEUROLOGICAL disorder.

There is also schizoaffective disorder. Ther is also schizotypal sp? personality disorder.
But if you don't understand the subtleties between these disorders you are going to drive yourself up a wall.

Please DON'T self diagnose. Find a good doctor, or another, or another. Get a solid opinion, get a proper diagnosis, then you can be properly treated.

I would say the two biggest problems in modern psychiatry:

1. Doctors are not trained uniformly on all topics
2. The psychoanalytic school has contaminated the neurological knowledge we now have.

Neurosis .... this word is no longer used in psychiatry. There is no such diagnosis TODAY called Pseudoneurotic Schizophrenia.
I don't know when it was in use, but it hasn't been for a few decades or more. I'm 52 and never heard the expression before. My mother was a psychiatrist. And I've seen shrinks since I was 15. TOO MANY SHRINKS. lol


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

Jayd said:


> Well im a little bit freaked out now...
> 
> I searched up that type of schitzophrenia it was. And im not going to lie, i had some of the symptoms. They said something like "delusion idealization". Does that mean that you can think up delusions but not believe in to them?? cause it think a lot of us here that have a big fear of schitzophrenia are so obssessed with our thoughts that we can randomly make things up, doesnt mean we believe in them. also it says, discomfort in social situations. im not saying im scared of going into social situations but, yeah with constant dp, it can be sort of discomfortable in social settings.
> 
> The good news is that, that schitzophrenia type you said (cant remember how to spell it), would be considered "schitzotypal personality disorder these days, and i didnt really match up with too many of those.


don't research schizophrenia, it just makes the obsessions and the anxiety worse. I was once on a forum where a schizophrenic was posting his problem, he had been diagnosed by a doctor but he wasn't so much indenial over the whole thing but he was still questioning the diagnosis and it wasn't a what if question he was posing, he believed something to be happening to him but the doctors he seen said it was not possible so he was looking online for a possible explanation if what he thought could actually be happening.

Big line to between delusion and neurotic obsession


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## cipher (Jan 25, 2011)

well, i m from india and the doc name is dr k k sinha. 
He is 91 and has studied in edinburg. 
Even i researched on this illness and came up with the finding that u ppl hv mentioned. 
Right now, i m sticking to his prescribed medicines. I hv nt experienced DP for a week now ! Let's see. Thnx all for ur suggestions.


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

Can you elaborate on what you said before about being in a dream world but knowing this to be a fact.

Did you mean you believe you are in a dream world or you know that this isn't a fact and just a weird obsession?


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## cipher (Jan 25, 2011)

Well.. I feel that I am in a dream though I know it is not a dream.. It is like I suspect my real life is a dream but I know it is not..


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

Cool

Well i have no qualifications and no university degree but i think your doc is full of shit and doesn't know what he's talking about, and i have a feeling a lot of doctors in the west would agree with me.

Whats his name if you don't mind me asking?

Fucking pseudoneurotic schizophrenia lol practically saying schizophrenia falsely presenting as neurosis which is bullshit, wonder if he believes in OCD or if he thinks thats a form of schizophrenia aswell haha

But if the meds are working stay on them be interesting to see if anti psychotics do help with DP/DR


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

cipher said:


> well, i m from india and the doc name is dr k k sinha.
> He is 91 and has studied in edinburg.
> Even i researched on this illness and came up with the finding that u ppl hv mentioned.
> Right now, i m sticking to his prescribed medicines. I hv nt experienced DP for a week now ! Let's see. Thnx all for ur suggestions.


Cipher. If you are in India, I have no clue what diagnostic codes your doctor is using. I just downloaded the ICD-10 and it uses terms like neurosis that we don't use in the US and Europe anymore. Neurosis is a vague term meaning "not psychotic" and in the old school way having to do with "interneal unconscious conflict" causing the symptoms of mental illness.

I am troubled the doctor is 91. He is clearly heavily influenced by psychoanalysis.
If you have faith in him, it is clearly up to you to work with this individual. But if this doctor studied psychiatry in the 30s, 40s, 50s, etc. I would suspect he is less familiar with modern biological models.

Now I'm on a binge reading the ICD. (Listings of all medical/psychiatric disorders by the World Health Organization world wide.)

So far I can't find that term in the ICD. I'll keep looking.

Meantime go with what you feel comfortable with. No one hear can know what you are going through, or anything about your doctor really.

Take Care,
D


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

*Cipher, I don't know if we have a translation problem or what, but this individual isn't 91 and he is a neurologist.*

"He is also credited with more than 200 publications in national & international journals. His areas of prime interest are neurological and neuro- psychiatric diseases, degenerative ataxias, SCA -12 movement disorders, Parkinsonism, Wilson's disease, SSPE & genetic disorders of the nervous system."

http://onlinemedic.in/myclinic/krishnasinha/default.aspx

He doesn't sound like the type of individual who would use the term pseudoneurotic schizoprhenia.


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## cipher (Jan 25, 2011)

dreamer, yeah it is him... He doesn't look like 91, smbdy said that he is 91. Dnt knw his actual age.


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## shogun (May 15, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> "He is also credited with more than 200 publications in national & international journals. His areas of prime interest are neurological and neuro- psychiatric diseases, degenerative ataxias, SCA -12 movement disorders, Parkinsonism, Wilson's disease, SSPE & genetic disorders of the nervous system."


I retract my previous statements HA!!

Still though i find it odd that a man that educated doesn't believe in depersonalization


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## snowcat3030 (Sep 30, 2010)

cipher said:


> Well.. I feel that I am in a dream though I know it is not a dream.. It is like I suspect my real life is a dream but I know it is not..


Well if you haven't experienced DP for a week now the DR must of given you the right perscriptions! What more is there to talk about, problem solved. Of course make sure to get a medical check now and again to make sure the more serious side effects of amisulpride aren't effecting you.

Take care.


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## S O L A R I S (Dec 24, 2009)

I would say that whether he is good or not, it's the prescribed medication that will have it's affect on you. From my personal experience, i have taken sertraline and an antipsychotic (risperdal), but I have since discontinued both

I don't know if anyone in this forum have tried Amisulpride, so I would ask those in your community how they feel about it. Amisulpride is not approved everywhere.

Another advise I would give you is to go with low dosages if you choose to take the medication, or you can discuss with your doctor how you wish to start taking them. I see it more like a personal choice because you are the only one who knows who you're doing.

Regarding the diagnosis, I think the others in here have given you enough information and you need to go ask him for clarification.

Most doctors would not know about depersonalization, but that should not stop you from getting a second opinion from someone else.


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2011)

My concern is this doesn't sound right. If the man is in his 40s or 50s and is a NEUROLOGIST, not a psychiatrist, why is he treating you for a psychiatric condition? He also should be very aware of DP/DR as a neurologist runs into that all the time.

How did you get an appointment with him? You would have to have a special referral? Unless I missed something.

I'm confused.

Can't diagnose anyone over the internet, but schzophrenia doesn't sound right.
I'm confused. I don't know what else to add to the discussion. And someone 90 years old would not be practicing medicine anymore.


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

cipher said:


> Hey ppl,
> 
> I have almost all of the symptoms of DP/DR. I met a doctor who happens to be Asia's Best neuro physician and psychiatrist. When I said I have depersonalization , he said this is all bullshit.. and asked me the symptoms.. He said that everyday ppl coin new terms about such illnesses.
> 
> ...


How old is your psychiatrist?


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## cipher (Jan 25, 2011)

ohwell said:


> How old is your psychiatrist?


I am not sure .. may be in his seventies..


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2011)

cipher said:


> I am not sure .. may be in his seventies..


LOL. Cipher, how old do you think I am? You REALLY see people as old. This is his resume. He is a neuroscientist. My guess is he could be 67 going by his years of Medical School. I don't know how quicly he completed his studies.

MBBS Bihar University
MD Bihar University
FRCP Edinburgh

Appointment and Credential

1985-1990 Chief Editor - Progress in Clinical Neurosciences
1991-2004 Chief Editor - Advance in Clinical Neurosciences
2001-2004 Chief Editor - Some Aspects in History of Neurosciences
2003 Chief Editor - New Trends in Medicine

Awards and Honours

1991-2004 Convener CME Programme of association of Neuroscientists of Eastern India
2000 President ANEI
2003
President Indian Epilepsy Association
2004
President Indian Epilepsy Society

*Also, if he was President of the Epilepsy Association and Society, he KNOWS what DP/DR are as those are experienced by individuals w/seizures in the aura of a seizure. Not all, but it is common.
*
Good luck. His credentials are impressive. I really don't understand the rest of what is going on.


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

Trust your psychiatrist, the name is not important, the result are, it is an excellent drug for DP which he gave you.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2011)

ohwell said:


> Trust your psychiatrist, the name is not important, the result are, it is an excellent drug for DP which he gave you.


It does matter if an individual is a neurologist vs. a psychiatrist.

And it also doesn't matter if they are "the best doctor on earth." I have seen top doctors who misdiagnosed me or threw medications at me that were inappropriate.

Although I don't know how this is dealt with in India. There are far fewer psychiatrists. Also, I didn't recognize one drug so I looked it up. It would seem he believes you may have some form of schizoprhenia, but he may also see this as depression? Also some DP/DR does respond to antipsychotics (though we aren't psychotic if we have DP/DR), but they are the newer ones, atypical antipsychotics such as Abilify. A number of doctors have recommended I try Abilify, but I don't feel comfortable changing my current meds.

_*"Also, Amisulpride is not approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in the United States, but it is used in Europe (France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Russia, United Kingdom, and Australia to treat psychoses and schizophrenia.[5][6] In Italy, in 50 mg doses, it is also used as a treatment for dysthymia (under the brand name Deniban)"*_ I can't find it on http://www.rxlist.com which would indeed indicate it is not prescribed her or approved by the FDA. But each country has different standards and reasons for having certain medications available.

*Please keep us posted on how you are doing.*


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## ohwell (Oct 28, 2010)

Psychiatric conditions are mostly considered disorders (except for conditions such as schizophrenia, which more and more are considered diseases). They're subjective experiences and there are no physical diangostic tests. So a lot of it is a case by case situation in which the patient should trust his doctor.

Now, I believe in India this term is quite often used still, when in the West it was changed for ''schizotypical'' personal disorder, but the old version had a neurotic componment which was taken more into consideration. What I see by this is that his psychiatrist believe him to have a personality disorder and I strongly believe that this could apply to a lot of us. Depersonalization is an identity fragmentation above anything else, which results with a disturbance in personality. This loss of a coherent sense of self can be interprated by the victim as many ways, one of which is dissociation.

We should not be quick to dismiss psychiatrists simply because of the name they have given to the disorder of their patients. What matters is if it the treatment has helped.

Regarding neuroleptics, the neuroleptic he was given is part of a specific family, which effect on depersonalization might be specific on its target of GHB receptors.



Dreamer* said:


> It does matter if an individual is a neurologist vs. a psychiatrist.
> 
> And it also doesn't matter if they are "the best doctor on earth." I have seen top doctors who misdiagnosed me or threw medications at me that were inappropriate.
> 
> ...


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## Tanyawa (Jan 25, 2011)

ohwell said:


> Psychiatric conditions are mostly considered disorders (except for conditions such as schizophrenia, which more and more are considered diseases). They're subjective experiences and there are no physical diangostic tests. So a lot of it is a case by case situation in which the patient should trust his doctor.
> 
> Now, I believe in India this term is quite often used still, when in the West it was changed for ''schizotypical'' personal disorder, but the old version had a neurotic componment which was taken more into consideration. What I see by this is that his psychiatrist believe him to have a personality disorder and I strongly believe that this could apply to a lot of us. Depersonalization is an identity fragmentation above anything else, which results with a disturbance in personality. This loss of a coherent sense of self can be interprated by the victim as many ways, one of which is dissociation.
> 
> ...


TRUST is a big issue with DP..........I had a hard time gaining trust to even go and get help........but I am now


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## Starovoit (Mar 7, 2015)

how are you now?


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## WorkingOnIt (Oct 10, 2014)

I kind of wish we didn't resurrect dead threads like this. Lets leave Jesus as the only thing that gets ressurected on this Easter day. Don't let these threads from the past bother you just because they're about schizophrenia. The banter back and forth reveals it was a sketchy diagnosis.


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