# Fighting vs. Accepting Is acceptance really the best method?



## HereIsEverywhere (Dec 22, 2008)

So I've been seeing a lot of advice on here to just "accept it as a part of life" as the healthiest way to deal.

Don't get me wrong... I see where that is coming from. It seems to make sense in terms of not fixating, not being upset about it because it will just increase stress, etc. BUT the other facets of acceptance don't seem to be as healthy to me. Or what I mean to say is, acceptance implies giving up. So maybe that isn't the right word though the advice has the right intent? Maybe a better way to put it would be to say not to dwell on it. But acceptance, I don't know about going that far and here is part of the reason why:

I'm writing this because it made me remember a case study a psych prof of mine told us about in a lecture related to depression.

The study is cruel so forgive me for that but here goes the short version:

They took groups of dogs and shocked them. Some groups they let escape, some they had a lever they could push to stop the shock, and some were stuck in the situation with nothing they did having any effect on the electric shock length. Later... they used the same dogs and put them in a pen with a low fence. The ones who had been able to escape the shock before or stop it, easily escaped my jumping out. Of the ones who had found the shock the first time to be inescapable, 2/3 didn't even try to escape. They just lay there and let it happen.

It's called "learned helplessness". The full story is there if you google it. Wikipedia talks about the dog experiment too. It basically has to do with depression. And how at a point, a person has learned that there is nothing they can do to escape depression when there are probably a lot of things they can do to improve their life.

Anyhow... so I was thinking about this. What if, the DP is inescapable at first because of traumatic events or because of a fresh episode. Lets call this "real DP". And after... we just "accept" it (subconsciously mostly) as life and just let it run its course when we can change it and that is... I dunno "learned DP". And perhaps we see avenues of escape and healing and don't take them...

Thoughts?


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## HereIsEverywhere (Dec 22, 2008)

also this was interesting:

This part really struck me from wikipedia on the social impact of learned helplessness:

"Another example of learned helplessness in social settings involves loneliness and shyness. Those who are extremely shy, passive, anxious and depressed may learn helplessness to offer stable explanations for unpleasant social experiences. However, Gotlib and Beatty (1985) found that people who cite helplessness in social settings may be viewed poorly by others, resulting in a situation that reinforces the problematic thinking."

This happens to me all the time. I'm shy when I meet a new group and they think that A. I don't like them or am not having fun or B. That I'm just a stuck up bitch who doesn't want to talk to them. So the cycle perpetuates itself. I'm shy, they react negatively, I feel like I have less reason to put myself out there next time... more shy, etc.


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## champion4life (Sep 7, 2008)

i see your point but i think you are seeing it from a different angle. by accepting you think it means to give up when in reality it is the opposite. by accepting it means that you realize you have it and so you dont dwell over it or fight it because studies show that fighting adds stress to it and makes it worse. accepting means to go on with your life and eventually conditioning your mind into no longer feeling a need to be affraid of it. i hope i am making sense.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Just wanted to add my two cents here. I have recovered and relapsed over and over again, so maybe I'm not the guy to ask about the permanent fix - but when I have gotten better (and its been for significant amounts of time) it is when I stop fighting it. I think you are right that accepting it is perhaps not the best word. It does not mean that you just sit back and live with horrible DP for the rest of your life, but at least you aren't worried or something like that.

What it means is that DP/DR feed off of our fear and our attention. Think about it: DP/DR are a change of perception. Whether you believe the change in perception comes from a biological or psychological cause - it is nothing more than a switch in our perceptions of the world and/or ourselves. Essentially it can't exist if we don't acknowledge it. The DP/DR feeling will never go away as long as we are constantly checking ourselves to see "Do things feel real?" "Do I feel connected to my family members?" "Are these memories real?", etc. The answer will be no time and time again, and while some days it may be a less harsh 'no' than others we can't get better in this way.

This is what acceptance means. I was really surprised when I got better that it wasn't like this 'snapping out of it' thing. All that happened was I lost that nagging anxiety to test if reality was 'real'. Everything felt exactly the same, in fact it was as if DP never even happened. Obviously I could still remember what DP/DR felt like for the most part, but it wasn't like I had lost years of my life to it - I remembered those memories with the same clarity and fondness as if I hadn't had DP during them at all.


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## HereIsEverywhere (Dec 22, 2008)

Hmm! Interesting Matt.

You know I was thinking about that a lot lately... When I'm really DPed out I start wondering if the times I felt "real" if I really did or not. It's interesting that you say the memories from when you feel DP are crisp when you no longer feel that way.

Sometimes there are periods in my life I don't think I remember much from, and other times vivid memories come back.

But I also do a lot or work keeping the few memories I do have crisp... thinking about them often.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

> But I also do a lot or work keeping the few memories I do have crisp... thinking about them often.


Just be careful with stuff like this. Rehearsing memories ended up opening a whole slew of unprecedented ugliness for me a couple years ago. I was feeling so unreal in the present that I started dwelling on memories only to find that they crumbled apart. Just like you I would find some memories blurry and some perfectly clear - but obsessive rehearsing began to make the whole memory process crumble. I got so bad I would spend nearly every undistracted moment of the day rehearsing every single thing I had done that day to make sure i was remembering all of it.

Now, i have an extremely obsessive personality so this wouldn't happen to you i'm sure. But the point remains that our brain is meant to function on its own. We can't constantly be watching what our brain is doing which is what DP and DR stem from. Here is where the acceptance thing comes in - your memories will be stronger when you don't fight to remember them, when they just come to your naturally like they should.


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## Sketch2000 (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks Matt...Very informative post and topic....
Given that you said you have fully recovered but relapsed a few times...I have to ask...What caused you to relapse?

Chris


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Sketch2000 said:


> Thanks Matt...Very informative post and topic....
> Given that you said you have fully recovered but relapsed a few times...I have to ask...What caused you to relapse?
> 
> Chris


I can't be sure to be honest. DP/DR is a tricky thing and its difficult to trace its causes. I know I ignored warning signs that I was headed towards relapse again. It started out with just anxiety again and I ignored it - figuring I had been there/done that with DP and there was no cause for concern.

I guess I just haven't fully dealt with my fears and my issues. Perhaps I will be better able to understand it once it has passed again. When you are in this nightmare it is nearly impossible to figure out why it is happening to you.


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