# Amotivational Syndrome Reversible in Rhesus Monkeys



## Guest013 (Apr 26, 2010)

After taking marijuana rhesus monkeys had Amotivational Syndrome (similar to some of the symptoms of DP). After 3-12 months of abstaining from marijuana use, the monkey's normal levels of motivation returned. Although it may take longer in humans, it shows that the apathy and depression of depersonalization can be reversed (if it was marijuana induced). At least that's my assumption of it. Read it for yourself.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/slikker.htm


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2011)

I was curious as I've never heard of amotivational syndrome. It isn't a psychiatric or neurological term. I know Wikipedia isn't the greatest, but I checked Merck Manual and there is no such term. It is a psychological term and it would be very difficult to assume psychological status of monkeys ... rather, they would be less motivated to do things or more motivated to do things as observed in their activity.

At Wikipedia, I vaguely remember reading about this .... there really is no correlation... here's what this says ... there's more w/Googling, etc.
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"Amotivational syndrome is a psychological condition associated with *diminished inspiration to participate in social situations and activities,* with lapses in apathy caused by an external event, situation, substance (or lack of), relationship, or other cause.

While some have claimed that chronic use of cannabis causes amotivational syndrome in some users, *empirical studies suggest that there is no such thing as "amotivational syndrome", per se, but that chronic cannabis intoxication can lead to apathy and amotivation.* From a World Health Organization report:

The evidence for an "amotivational syndrome" among adults consists largely of case histories and observational reports (e.g. Kolansky and Moore, 1971; Millman and Sbriglio, 1986). The small number of controlled field and laboratory studies have not found compelling evidence for such a syndrome (Dornbush, 1974; Negrete, 1983; Hollister, 1986)... (I)t is doubtful that cannabis use produces a well defined amotivational syndrome. It may be more parsimonious to regard the symptoms of impaired motivation as symptoms of chronic cannabis intoxication rather than inventing a new psychiatric syndrome. [1]

A study done by researchers Barnwell, Earleywine and Wilcox[1] on a sample of undergraduates also suggests that cannabis use does not cause an amotivational syndrome. The e-mail survey showed no significant difference in motivation (as measured on the Apathy Evaluation Scale[2]) between cannabis users and cannabis abstainers."

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IDK?????? Just researching around. But the term is not psychiatric.


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2011)

Just realized the site is sort of biased. It is a marijuana news site.


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## Emir (Nov 20, 2010)

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## Guest (Feb 1, 2011)

j4mtj said:


> I think it's also along the lines of anhedonia, which I curse SSRI's for giving me. (Seritonin depleting dopamine)


Interesting. See so many terms. As I understand it anhedonia means an inability to experience joy or mirth or amusement or something? I recall director/actor Woody Allen has claimed to have life-long anhedonia -- one of the funniest guys ... sort of a paradox. One could also say though, dysthimia sp? -- "mild general depressive symptoms, but not full out depression."

IDK. Amotivational really just means lack of motivation. That is a key hallmark of clinical depression as well.

I agree with the one sentence that says there doesn't seem to be a reason to create another syndrome.

Ah, who knows. Strange with me. Despite all of my symptoms, many of them, I can have a good laugh/laugh hysterically over something, I can have a major DAY of crying, etc.

My motto. We are all unique.


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## Emir (Nov 20, 2010)

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## Emir (Nov 20, 2010)

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## Guest (Feb 1, 2011)

j4mtj said:


> Also, 'SSRI-Induced Indifference' here:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21103140


Thank you! A fellow research addict.








Yeah, pick a word. Seems odd to call it a syndrome. To me it would be "side effect" ... IDK. *facepalm*


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## Guest013 (Apr 26, 2010)

I just thought it was interesting. In the study, the monkey's would no longer perform tasks for rewards (food), but after 3-12 months they started to perform the tasks again. I feel like one of the symptoms of DP is apathy and no motivation to go out and do things.


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## Emir (Nov 20, 2010)

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## Guest (Feb 2, 2011)

j4mtj said:


> Yes, I think that mj negatively affects the dopamine system (pleasure and reward) as does long-term ssri use so if DP was induced by mj then gives hope that it's reversible according to the study.


I honestly see the hope this gives those of you with mj induced DP/DR. It makes sense. I look at things in terms of someone who never took a rec drug and feel very frustrated.

I found the website somewhat irritating however, as it is "pro-mj" and that's fine, and I believe in the medicinal use of it for pain, and I know MANY people don't have an adverse affect from it. But in recent years, I have seen SO many people on this forum who say they got DP/DR from MJ. It is terrifying.

I don't know if it's as suggested that MJ is not as "pure" as it used to be, laced with things, too strong. And I have adult friends (60s) who grow it on their farm, and have a toke once in a while to relax. No problems for them either. The state they live in also allows for medicinal MJ. But growing it on their own, they know what they've got, and they don't deal. I've been offered it as a guest, lol, and politely turned it down.

I see apathy as also coming from chronic illness. When I was DP/DR and younger, I had so much more drive, strength, energy. As the years go by, I'm tired. I keep fighting, but the chronicity drags me down.

Individuals with chronic illnesses of any type can become apathetic, feel hopeless.

I hope this bodes well for you all.


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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

*the monkey's would no longer perform tasks for rewards (food)*

No problem with food - it's the dishes that bring on amotivational syndrome.

*Individuals with chronic illnesses of any type can become apathetic, feel hopeless*

Yep. The dishes too. Sorry, I'm getting squirrelly and better just go take a nap&#8230;

Now to be more serious - The article did not say WHY marijuana did this to monkeys or "perception that marijuana smokers are lazy"

Just curious for feedback here

Marijuana is a HIGHLY EMOTIONAL topic. So it is difficult to get accurate information. Here are a few excerpts as (surprise, surprise) dopamine is implicated:

http://www.scienceclarified.com/Io-Ma/Marijuana.html

"The new studies found (for the first time) that high doses of marijuana increased the levels of dopamine in the brain. Constant use of addictive drugs, however, can cause the brain to lose its ability to produce high levels of dopamine. When this happens, a drug user feels a greater need for the drug, or for even stronger drugs. Scientists believe this may occur with marijuana."

http://www.dirkhanson.org/neuroaddiction.html

"Marijuana is the odd drug out. To the early researchers, it did not look like it should be addictive. Nevertheless, for some people, it is. Recently, a group of Italian researchers succeeded in demonstrating that THC releases dopamine along the reward pathway, like all other drugs of abuse. Some of the mystery of cannabis had been resolved by the end of the 1990s, after researchers had demonstrated that marijuana definitely increased dopamine activity in the ventral tegmental area. Some of the effects of pot are produced the old-fashioned way after all--through alterations along the limbic reward pathway" See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventral_tegmental_area

There have been a LOT of reports of marijuana smoker developing impotence - some permanent. Others seem to have little problem. Could this have a dopamine connection? Erectile function is a delicate balance between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. The latter is affected by the dopamine/acetylcholine balance but not necessarily the reason for the marijuana problems.

The article did not say the monkeys weren't hungry just not motivated. Marijuana is known for giving one the 'munchies'. For that matter so is sex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia

"Researchers theorize that *anhedonia* may result from the breakdown in the brain's reward system, involving dopamine pathways"


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## Emir (Nov 20, 2010)

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## Visual (Oct 13, 2010)

j4mtj said:


> Dopamine is under-rated! Interesting discussion here:
> http://www.mcmanweb.com/no_pleasure.html


I agree and am a *Dope*-amine pusher









It seems very few on this forum have used it. Though I realize the equation is usually more complex. Some here have even done well with anti-dopamine.

It seems that with drug induced DP/DR, there is a dopamine/acetylcholine connection. But the changes from the 'blowout' can cascade anywhere. I think that most would do well with dopamine coupled with anti-seizure medication. But may very well need most transmitters increased.


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