# Naloxone for depersonalization study - a success!!!



## Deja_vu_256

Effect of naloxone therapy on depersonalization: a pilot study

Yuri L. Nuller, Marina G. Morozova, Olga N. Kushnir and Nikita Hamper
Bekhterev Psychoneurological Research Institute. St-Petersburg, Russia.

To test the hypothesis of the role for the opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization, the effect of
naloxone (an opioid receptor blocker) on the symptoms and corticosteroids secretion was studied in
patients with depersonalization syndrome. Fourteen depersonalization patients were treated with
naloxone: 11 patients received single doses (1.6 or 4 mg i.v.) and three others received multiple infusions,
with the maximal dosage being 10 mg, and the effect of naloxone on symptom severity was determined. In
eight patients, the cortisol, cortisone and corticosterone content in the blood plasma was determined prior
to and after the 4 mg naloxone infusion. A reversed-phase microcolumn high-performance liquid
chromatography with ultraviolet detection was applied for assessment of glucocorticoids. In three of 14
patients, depersonalization symptoms disappeared entirely and seven patients showed a marked
improvement. The therapeutic effect of naloxone provides evidence for the role of the endogenous opioid
system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization.
Key words: depersonalization; glucocorticoids; naloxone

Introduction
Depersonalization is a change of self-awareness such that the
person feels unreal. It is characterized by the loss of emotional
perception or a blunted feeling of one?s own body and its functions,
etc. Patients with this condition find it difficult to describe, often
speaking of being detached from their own experience and unable
to feel emotion. A similar change in relation to the environment is
called derealization. Depersonalization can manifest itself as a
symptom in the structure of various psychopathological syndromes
or as an independent syndrome. In the latter case, where the
depersonalization syndrome is unrelated to any other mental
disease, it is defined as a depersonalization disorder (Nuller, 1982;
American Psychiatry Association, 1994).
Depersonalization syndrome often has a long, lingering course
which is resistant to therapy (Shader, 1994). Antidepressants,
neuroleptics and electroconvulsive therapy usually fail to produce
any therapeutic action. Only very large doses of benzodiazepines
produce a therapeutic effect in some patients (Nuller, 1982; Gelder
et al., 1989). In cases where depersonalization lasts for months and
years, no psychotropic therapy has documented efficacy. When
depersonalization is a part of another mental disorder, it is most
often a major depression. In such cases, depression can become
resistant to therapy and have a lingering course.
An effective medical treatment of depersonalization is impaired
by the lack of data on the biochemical mechanisms of this disorder.
Depersonalization usually develops as a reaction to severe
emotional stress, or can emerge from acute anxiety and tension in
various mental illnesses. The fact that anxiety is involved in its
genesis is confirmed by the therapeutic efficacy of large doses of
anxiolytics in the acute depersonalization syndrome (Nuller, 1982;
Nuller and Mickalenko, 1988). Stress can be accompanied by
secretion of endogeneous opioids, mostly beta-endorphins. This
helps to explain the hypoalgesia or total analgesia found in
depersonalization (Nuller and Mikhalenko, 1988; Moroz et al.,
1990; Abugova, 1996) as well as a less pronounced pupil reaction
to morphine (Nuller and Mikhalenko, 1988). These observations
led us to suggest that disturbance in the opioid system such as the
increased endorphin secretion and/or a change in the sensitivity of
opioid receptors play an important role in the pathogenesis of
depersonalization. To verify this hypothesis, we investigated the
effect of naloxone ? an opioid receptor blocker. Stress is also
characterized by changes in secretion of corticoids. Therefore it
was of interest to determine the levels of corticoids under
depersonalization.

Methods
Subjects

Fourteen patients (nine females and five males, mean age 32 years)
were assigned to treatment with naloxone. In six patients,
depersonalization was the only manifestation of a mental illness
and they met the DSM-IV criteria for depersonalization disorder.
Eight patients had mixed depersonalization and depressive
symptoms with dominating depersonalization syndrome. In three
patients, the duration of the disease was less than 1 year, in seven
patients, it ranged from 1?5 years; in two patients, from 5?10 years
and in two patients, 14 and 16 years.
The control group for plasma corticosteroids included 36 healthy 
volunteers whose age ranged from 25?45 years and whose
corticosteroid level in the blood plasma was determined twice for
two subsequent days.

Naloxone administration

Naloxone (Polfa) was injected i.v. at 12 in the afternoon in a
single-blind placebo controlled design, with placebo always first.
The patients had one dose of naloxone, which was followed by
further doses if they did not respond. Eleven patients had one
infusion, the doses were 4 mg in nine patients and 1.6 mg in two
patients. Three patients had multiple naloxone infusion: in one
case, 2 mg infusions within 3 days (6 mg total) and, in two other
cases, multiple infusions with doses increasing from 2 mg to 10 mg
every 2 or 3 weeks (50 mg total). The maximal number of
infusions administered was 10. Between the naloxone infusions,
these two patients received tranquilizers (lorazepam, 6 mg per day;
phenazepam, 8 mg per day; hydroxyzine, 200 mg per day) and
antidepressants (paroxetine, 60 mg per day; mianserine, 90 mg per
day).

Biochemical methods

The cortisol, cortisone and corticosterone content in the blood
plasma was determined in eight patients prior to and after the
naloxone infusions. Blood was taken from a catheter inserted into
the ulnar vein, and kept open with heparin. The first sample was
taken at 11.00 h immediately after the catheter was inserted; the
second at 11.30 h, after 10 ml of physiological solution (placebo)
was infused iv.; the third at 12.00 h, then the infusion of 0.4 mg of
naloxone (1 ml of naloxone solution and 9 ml of the physiological
solution) was made; the fourth at 12.15 h before the 4 mg naloxone
infusion (10 ml of the solution) and the fifth at 12.30 h.
For measurement of glucocorticoids, a reversed-phase microcolumn
HPLC with ultraviolet (UV) detection was applied. A
150 ? 1 mm column filled with Separon SGX C18 5? and linear
gradient elution (70 : 30 to 35 : 65 water-acetonitrile for 30 min)
was used. The technique allowed a good baseline separation of
aldosterone, cortisol, cortisone and corticosterone (Gamper et al.,
1996). The detection limit (UV detection at 254 nm) was
approximately 5 ng/ml. Serum protein electrophoresis was used to
extract the substances of interest from the serum.

Results

Efficacy was assessed using the depersonalization scale (Nuller
and Mikhalenko, 1988) and subjective response. The depersonalization
scale was administered before the naloxone infusion and
after 4 h (peak effect). In three of 14 patients, depersonalization
symptoms disappeared entirely. Seven patients showed a marked
improvement: with symptoms reduced by more than 50% on the
depersonalization scale. One patient showed moderate improvement
and, in two patients, the improvement was short and
insignificant, one patient showed no positive effect.
Thus, 10 of 14 patients showed a considerable therapeutic
effect, which is undoubtedly a success considering the therapeutic
resistance of the depersonalization syndrome. In addition, the
subsequent benzodiazepine therapy (lorazepam, 6 mg per day;
phenazepam, 8 mg per day; hydroxyzine, 200 mg per day within
4 weeks) resulted in a fast and complete reduction of depersonalization
in three patients (two demonstrated considerable and one
moderate improvement), although, in two of these patients, the
same drugs were not effective prior to the naloxone therapy.
After reduction of depersonalization, four patients showed no
evidence of any mental disorder except for the personality traits
they had had in the premorbid period; five patients continued to
express the symptoms of major depressive disorder, which was less
severe than before the depersonalization had manifested itself and
responded quickly to the antidepressants; one patient was found to
be deluded with intense anxiety. This condition showed a good
response to antipsychotic therapy.
In most cases, the first signs of improvement were recorded
soon after the naloxone infusions (within 20?40 min) and the
patients? perception of the world was marked by greater brightness.
A complete reduction or disappearance of depersonalization
occurred within the interval of 1?4 h and, in some patients, continued
for as long as 12?24 h. This was followed by some
deterioration, although the depersonalization never recurred to the
initial level. Five patients showed evidence of a stable improvement.
Two patients had considerable but not total reduction of depersonalization
due to the naloxone therapy. Immediately thereafter,
they received long-term benzodiazepine treatment. The impression
was that benzodiazepines stabilize the improvement that was
reached as a result of the naloxone therapy.
No side-effects were recorded when naloxone was
administered.
Table 1 presents the corticosteroid data. The depersonalization
patients have a very low initial cortisol level compared to the
control. The cortisone level also decreased, but to a smaller degree,
whereas the corticosterone content appeared to be slightly higher.
Upon 4 mg naloxone infusion, the cortisol content was found to
reliably increase compared to its post-placebo level. With respect
to cortisone, it increased but not as drastically and the corticosterone
content remained unchanged.

Table 1 Plasma corticosteroids concentration (ng/ml) in normal controls and depersonalization patients
Cortisol Cortisone Corticosterone
Control group (n = 36)
After catheter insertion 30.5 ? 2.65 22.48 ? 3.24 9.61 ? 1.69
Depersonalization group (n = 8)
After catheter insertion 13.98 ? 0.95*** 16.77 ? 2.54 13.90 ? 2.66
30 min after catheter insertion 11.91 ? 1.36 14.45 ? 2.63 10.45 ? 2.01
15 min after placebo infusion 10.21 ? 1.09 13.84 ? 2.22 9.16 ? 1.10
15 min after naloxone infusion (0.4 mg) 11.53 ? 2.55 15.90 ? 2.56 7.97 ? 1.20
15 min after naloxone infusion (4 mg) 18.64 ? 3.35 20.33 ? 3.17 9.93 ? 2.01

Discussion
Previous attempts to use naloxone for treating mental disorders
proved to be unsuccessful (Abrams et al., 1978; Volavka et al.,
1982; Keuler et al., 1996) and an insignificant positive effect of
short duration was recorded only in case of mania (Janowsky et al.,
1983). The opioid system seems to play an insignificant role in the
pathogenesis of the endogeneous depression (Banki and Araio,
1987). As mentioned above, we used indirect data which suggested
the importance of the opioid system in the pathogeneses of
depersonalization, i.e. some depersonalization symptoms resemble
the effect of morphine and depersonalization arises as a reaction to
an acute emotional stress, which causes endorphin secretion.
The positive therapeutic effect of the opioid receptor blocker,
naloxone, offers some evidence for the implication of the opioid
system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization. This role is also
confirmed by the influence of naloxone on the cortisol secretion in
depersonalization patients: the low level of cortisol in depersonalization
patients could be explained by the fact that endogeneous
opioids inhibit CRF secretion. By blocking the action of
endorphins, naloxone increases the cortisol secretion (Delitala
et al., 1994). The depersonalization patients were found to have
a much lower cortisol content in plasma, which was drastically
increased by naloxone. The increase of cortisol level coincided
in time with the therapeutic effect of naloxone. There was a
reduction of depersonalization symptoms without any signs of
anxiety.
Our data do not provide sufficient evidence to conclude whether
the therapeutic effect of naloxone is only related to the blockade of
the opioid receptors or to some other factors that affect the opioid
system. In most patients, the positive action of naloxone developed
during the first hours after the infusion and, in many, the
improvement lasted more than 24 h. Because the half-life of
naloxone is approximately 60 min, this suggests that naloxone
increased the patients? therapeutic sensitivity to the drugs that were
previously not very effective for these particular patients.
One naloxone infusion was sufficient to entirely eliminate or
considerably reduce all the symptoms of depersonalization in four
patients who had a relatively recent depersonalization syndrome.
However, some symptoms recorded prior to depersonalization
reappeared and were easily treated by conventional medicine. Our
previous data on the positive effect of large doses of benzodiazepines
on depersonalization (Nuller, 1982) are evidence for the
close relationship between depersonalization and anxiety. In most
cases of chronic depersonalization, syndrome reduction was not
accompanied by manifestation of affective symptoms. Here,
depersonalization seems to be unrelated to anxiety and might
become autonomous. The change of sensitivity in opioid receptors
may be important in cases of chronic depersonalization.
In conclusion, some clinical manifestations of depersonalization,
such as analgesia, the suppression of corticosteroid
secretion and especially the positive therapeutic effect of the opioid
receptor blocker, naloxone, offer evidence for the implication of
the opioid system in the pathogenesis of depersonalization.

Address for correspondence
Professor Yuri L. Nuller
The Psychopharmacological Department
Bekhterev Psychoneurological Research Institute
3 Bekhterev St
St-Petersburg 193019
Russia
Email: [email protected]
References
Abrams A, Braff D, Janowsky D S, Holl S, Segal D S (1978)
Unresponsiveness of catatonic symptoms to naloxone.
Pharmakopsychiatry 11: 177?179
Abugova M A (1996) Indices of pain threshold as a method of
objective assessment of depersonalization therapy efficacy.
Bekhterev Rev Psychiatry Med Psychol 4: 120?122
American Psychiatric Association (1994) DSM-lV: diagnostic and
statistical manual of mental disorders, 4th edn. American
Psychiatric Association, Washington DC
Banki C V, Araio M (1987) Multiple hormonal responses to
morphine: relationship to diagnosis and dexamethasone
supression. Psychoendocrinology 12: 3?11
Delitala G, Trainer P S, Oliva O, Fanciully G, Grossman A B (1994)
Opioid peptide and alpha-adrenoreceptor pathways in the
regulation of the pituitary?adrenal axis in man. Endocrinology
141: 163?168
Gamper N L, Velicanova L I, Korolyova N M (1996) Determination
of six corticosteroids in human serum by reversed phase
microcolumn HPLC. Proceedings of the 18th International
Symposium on capillary chromatography V111, pp. 1655?1663
Gelder M, Gath D, Mayou R (1989) Oxford textbook of psychiatry,
2nd edn. Oxford University Press, Oxford
Janowsky D S, Judd L L, Huey L Y, Rish S C, Segal D S (1983)
Behavioral effects of opioid receptor antagonists in
psychopathological states. Psychiatry Clin North Am 6: 403?414
Keuler D J, Altemus M, Michelson D, Greenberg B, Murphy D L
(1996) Behavioral effects of naloxone infusion in
obsessive?compulsive disorder. Biol Psychiatry 40: 154?156
Moroz B T, Nuller Y L, Ustimova I N, Andreev B V (1990) Study of
pain sensitivity based on the indicators of electroodontometry
in patients with depersonalization and depressive disorders.
Zhurnal Nevropatologii Psichiatrii 90: 81?82
Nuller Y L (1982) Depersonalisazion ? symptoms, meaning, therapy.
Acta Psychiatr Scand 66: 451?458
Nuller Y L, Mickalenko I N (1988) Affective psychoses. Meditsina,
Leningrad
Shader R I (1994) Manuel of psychiatric therapeutics, 2nd edn.
Little, Brown and Company, Boston
Volavka J, Anderson B, Koz G (1982) Naloxone and naltrexone in
mental illness and tardive dyskinesia. Ann NY Acad Sci 97?102


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## Deja_vu_256

have you looked at my post about naloxone under experiences with medication?


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## Bosko

sounds goooooooooooooooood!!!!


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## Surfingisfun001

yea this is a very interesting article and study.

here is the link to Deja_vu_256 's thread of his experience with Naloxone

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19253&st=0&sk=t&sd=a


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## = n

This is excellent!


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## bark

When were these studies conducted? Is this recent?


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## Bosko

Ive been doing some reading about naloxone. apparently is a VERY strong drug. Im through tiptoeing around with my doctor im just gonna tell him straight to dope me up.


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## Surfingisfun001

dancingwobbler said:


> Ive been doing some reading about naloxone. apparently is a VERY strong drug. Im through tiptoeing around with my doctor im just gonna tell him straight to dope me up.


I doubt your doctor will even be allowed to prescribe you naloxone. You will have to visit an administration site and do a short training to get it (free). As for being a strong drug.... :? . All it is is an opioid receptor antagonist, from what i've read and know it's very very safe.


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## Surfingisfun001

bark said:


> When were these studies conducted? Is this recent?


http://jop.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/15/2/93

I guess 2001.


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## nemesis

Wow, so DP could very well be the result of us constantly getting wasted off our own endogenous opiods? And, the release of these opiods are triggered by the high stress response?

Doesnt that suggest that we should be tackling the cause then of the DP, being the anxiety and stress response rather than trying to moderate our bodies reaction to the opiods themselves?


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## Dick

That makes NO sense!

If too much endorphin is responsible for DP it goes against everything in my personal experience of what makes DP better/worse.

If excess endogenous opioids really turn out to be the source of DP I think I will completely loose faith in thoughtful reduction.

I might just give up thinking and put my brain in a jar because if this is true then logical thought involving more than one step obviously doesn't work! DAMMIT

I really hope that there is more to DP than this, there must be some knock on effect happening or some secondary process of the drug which is responsible for helping those people. If not my mind will COLLAPSE :shock:

paaaaniiiccccccc

Looking on the bright side... at least there may be a cure after all


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## wael

Its a illusion to think that the we fully understand the brain/processes/connections and the medications which intervene with it. All kind of functional meds are accidentally discovered by it s use in a total different context.


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## Surfingisfun001

Dick said:


> That makes NO sense!
> 
> If too much endorphin is responsible for DP it goes against everything in my personal experience of what makes DP better/worse.
> 
> If excess endogenous opioids really turn out to be the source of DP I think I will completely loose faith in thoughtful reduction.
> 
> I might just give up thinking and put my brain in a jar because if this is true then logical thought involving more than one step obviously doesn't work! DAMMIT
> 
> I really hope that there is more to DP than this, there must be some knock on effect happening or some secondary process of the drug which is responsible for helping those people. If not my mind will COLLAPSE :shock:
> 
> paaaaniiiccccccc
> 
> Looking on the bright side... at least there may be a cure after all


I think everyone is different. Everyone has different reasons for the on-set and prolonged endurance of their DP. For some people this may not play a factor, but as the tests have shown people are benefiting from it. There's really only one way to find out.


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## Sleepwalker

I agree *surfingisfun001*.

It could be that excess opioid activation could be both _result_(for some) and cause(for others), at least partly, of DD syndrome.

Like the common cold, *signs and symptoms* could be relieved by taking cold remedies.

The cold can also be hustled along by assisting the body to to fight off the cause, i.e. the virus.

Either way, one gets relief.

So if Naloxone relieves only the symptoms (and signs) and a person feels better--hip hip hurray!!
Perhaps it's aetiology (in the case of some people) will be known later and it's *cause* can then be medicated.

In my case, I think the syndrome is heavily anxiety-related and also a control issue (personality). The fact that prolonged tactile stimulation can calm me and greatly reduce my DD, suggests to me that anxiety is a key trigger and perpetuator of my DD.


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## flat

What do you mean by "prolonged tactile stimulation"?


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## bennyboy1

NALTREXONE TRIAL

hiya, having been a dp'er for 14 years - on and off - got over it then took ectasasy and got it back and ended up in dr sierras (champion) clinic whilst in the uk for 2 years, got over it then drank some absyinthe got it back savagly. hell as you all know. this mail may seem a bit disorganised as have clonazapam cramps and severe flu! but try and follow cheers.

anyway now im back in australia - sun light def helps! - but ive just started with naltrexone with support of the psych (26/5/09). what can i say, ive only started at 25mg/day for 3 days now. After having severe clonazepam withdrawls even tho im on only 1mg/day and i am on the SNRI CYMBALTA (YOU SHOULD TAKE A SNRI THAT HAS NORADRENALINE PROPERTIES AS WE SUFFER FROM A MESS UPOF THAT CHEMICAL) - has been hell (in the non dp world it isnt eactly wise to use them both concurrently) but just chugged 1.5mg CLONAZEPAM AM AS IM WRITING THIS and the cramps and flu symtems went away substantially!

what to say re naltrexone - even after a long period of (very very long period) of dp most of the time chronic, tho i still work and socialise etc (but no mirrors and all that jazz more than a daily struggle) the naltreone works! there has been a real sense of clarity and the fog has pretty much diminished 90%!(please dont think its a cure, time is the only cure for this disease and getting used of yourself again) but if we can use medication to speed up the process and make it happen then we should use them at all costs as they work. Use vitamins too, spesh b3 and magnesium and DISTRACTION AT ALL TIMES.

SORRY BACK TO THE NALTREXONE! - its not cheap but if you can get your doc to prescribe on benefits then great 
(download all info on it and take it to them - make a case for it! i did and it worked). it does make you nausesas and tired but naltrexone makes ME (maybe not you we are all individual) real and its rapid. really rapid. 20- 40 mins. dosent last all day so i might up the dose to 50 mg shorlty to see how that goes - price permitting but im willing to try as i need to say goodbye to 24/7dp. 10/7 dp i can deal with and thats where im at day 3! its working, not placebo - no doubt about it in conjunction with an snri, clonaz, vitamins and distraction.

take care guys. email me if you need to and id be happy to respond (as i am 'lifer' of this illness) but please only constructive comments. ta


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## Guest

bennyboy1 said:


> NALTREXONE TRIAL
> 
> hiya, having been a dp'er for 14 years - on and off - got over it then took ectasasy and got it back and ended up in dr sierras (champion) clinic whilst in the uk for 2 years, got over it then drank some absyinthe got it back savagly. hell as you all know. this mail may seem a bit disorganised as have clonazapam cramps and severe flu! but try and follow cheers.
> 
> anyway now im back in australia - sun light def helps! - but ive just started with naltrexone with support of the psych (26/5/09). what can i say, ive only started at 25mg/day for 3 days now. After having severe clonazepam withdrawls even tho im on only 1mg/day and i am on the SNRI CYMBALTA (YOU SHOULD TAKE A SNRI THAT HAS NORADRENALINE PROPERTIES AS WE SUFFER FROM A MESS UPOF THAT CHEMICAL) - has been hell (in the non dp world it isnt eactly wise to use them both concurrently) but just chugged 1.5mg CLONAZEPAM AM AS IM WRITING THIS and the cramps and flu symtems went away substantially!
> 
> what to say re naltrexone - even after a long period of (very very long period) of dp most of the time chronic, tho i still work and socialise etc (but no mirrors and all that jazz more than a daily struggle) the naltreone works! there has been a real sense of clarity and the fog has pretty much diminished 90%!(please dont think its a cure, time is the only cure for this disease and getting used of yourself again) but if we can use medication to speed up the process and make it happen then we should use them at all costs as they work. Use vitamins too, spesh b3 and magnesium and DISTRACTION AT ALL TIMES.
> 
> SORRY BACK TO THE NALTREXONE! - its not cheap but if you can get your doc to prescribe on benefits then great
> (download all info on it and take it to them - make a case for it! i did and it worked). it does make you nausesas and tired but naltrexone makes ME (maybe not you we are all individual) real and its rapid. really rapid. 20- 40 mins. dosent last all day so i might up the dose to 50 mg shorlty to see how that goes - price permitting but im willing to try as i need to say goodbye to 24/7dp. 10/7 dp i can deal with and thats where im at day 3! its working, not placebo - no doubt about it in conjunction with an snri, clonaz, vitamins and distraction.
> 
> take care guys. email me if you need to and id be happy to respond (as i am 'lifer' of this illness) but please only constructive comments. ta


Is the naltrexone in shot form or pill form? Dosent really matter to me, I love shots!!!!. Just curious. And did you get your doc to prescribe it or did you buy it on your own and where? and is naltrexone the same thing as naxolone? And how exactly is it helping you? is it making the feelings of unreality subside or something?


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## bennyboy1

hiya. yeah its the same thing - basically. the words naloxone (injectable)and naltrexone (pills) are interchangeable. they are the same thing basically just a couple of diffent things added to inject or pill it (and some countries use one word or the other). both drugs work on the exact same opiod receptor and do the same job mate.

what it seems to be doin is making everything look real again (tho its hard to remember exactly what that is but im using my inutition!). things dont seem to shine so much. the dream like floating shyte is back in my body - not out there in front of each step you take down the footpath, my hands are my own, the tv is its own, this computer is its own! i feel whole and the world seems whole! the detachment and fog seems to have drifted off as well as the anxiety an the constant thinking about dp!. tho i am stil feeling very sick. if your intersested in trying it id be taking it at night which im going to from now on as had to miss work today as i was chucking it bad!

unforch if your NOT an alcoholic, (if you can present to your doc as one it would help!) you have to get what we call in australia a `private script' which is $143.88AU DOLLARS. If you could get your doc to prescribe it for a trial (mine said it was against his ethics as its not indicated for dp and he couldget in trouble getting me the discount as im not an acoholic!) - spesh in the uk or oz etc it like 6 quid or thirty bucks per 28 pills / 50mg. i think the naloxone injections are 1.3 per day but dont quote me on that and cost about the same over a month. you can also get naloxone implants!

take care bud


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## Guest

bennyboy1 said:


> hiya. yeah its the same thing - basically. the words naloxone (injectable)and naltrexone (pills) are interchangeable. they are the same thing basically just a couple of diffent things added to inject or pill it (and some countries use one word or the other). both drugs work on the exact same opiod receptor and do the same job mate.
> 
> what it seems to be doin is making everything look real again (tho its hard to remember exactly what that is but im using my inutition!). things dont seem to shine so much. the dream like floating shyte is back in my body - not out there in front of each step you take down the footpath, my hands are my own, the tv is its own, this computer is its own! i feel whole and the world seems whole! the detachment and fog seems to have drifted off as well as the anxiety an the constant thinking about dp!. tho i am stil feeling very sick. if your intersested in trying it id be taking it at night which im going to from now on as had to miss work today as i was chucking it bad!
> 
> unforch if your NOT an alcoholic, (if you can present to your doc as one it would help!) you have to get what we call in australia a `private script' which is $143.88AU DOLLARS. If you could get your doc to prescribe it for a trial (mine said it was against his ethics as its not indicated for dp and he couldget in trouble getting me the discount as im not an acoholic!) - spesh in the uk or oz etc it like 6 quid or thirty bucks per 28 pills / 50mg. i think the naloxone injections are 1.3 per day but dont quote me on that and cost about the same over a month. you can also get naloxone implants!
> 
> take care bud


OOOOHHHHHHH........................MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.........................................GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im doing it!!!!!! I would rather have the sickness for the rest of my life than have DP. My psych can perscribe it to me whenever she wants and I think she is going to on my appointment next week. I also have medicaid so I can get it for free. Im gonna go for the injections (I love getting shots I dont know why LOL). Dude im so glad to hear how good its working for you so good, congradulations  . Im definatly trying it!!!!! thanks bro!!!!


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## bennyboy1

im glad your giving it a go to mate! its definelty working! im still in bed as sick as a dog but i think once i get my meds in order - times and with the right foods ill be bouncing back shortly - into life! cant believe i can even say that!

what ever you do - if you are on clonazepam, which most of us are, dont withdraw from it! i did for 2.5days asi thought i was supposed to with naltrexone - it has nearly killed me - well im in bed sick. i took my clozies 1.5mg (usually i only take 1mg) and felt a load better straight away. maybe us dper's are (unlucky) enough to tkae both at the same time and we are fine. well i am anyhow menatally. physically i feel absolutly terrible bud.

but you know the funny thing is, like a few on this site,when we get the flu or sick etc it usually makes our dp alot worse but this is the first time in years that i havent had %100 dp whilst been sick! i mean the dp i guess is still there a bit -but its not also. its pretty f....n amazing! gonna take a bit to get use of now!im ready! thanks for your support and my thoughts are with you mate.


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## Guest

bennyboy1 said:


> im glad your giving it a go to mate! its definelty working! im still in bed as sick as a dog but i think once i get my meds in order - times and with the right foods ill be bouncing back shortly - into life! cant believe i can even say that!
> 
> what ever you do - if you are on clonazepam, which most of us are, dont withdraw from it! i did for 2.5days asi thought i was supposed to with naltrexone - it has nearly killed me - well im in bed sick. i took my clozies 1.5mg (usually i only take 1mg) and felt a load better straight away. maybe us dper's are (unlucky) enough to tkae both at the same time and we are fine. well i am anyhow menatally. physically i feel absolutly terrible bud.
> 
> but you know the funny thing is, like a few on this site,when we get the flu or sick etc it usually makes our dp alot worse but this is the first time in years that i havent had %100 dp whilst been sick! i mean the dp i guess is still there a bit -but its not also. its pretty f....n amazing! gonna take a bit to get use of now!im ready! thanks for your support and my thoughts are with you mate.


So your DP is practically ceasing? You just feel really sick? Well I would trade DP for being sick as a dog ANYDAY!!!!!!! Are you doing the shots or the pills? and when did you notice your DP getting better?


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## Surfingisfun001

Naloxone is administered though IV whereas Naltrexone is in pill form. Also I believe there is a difference, but they are both opioid receptor antagonists.


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## Guest

surfingisfun001 said:


> Naloxone is administered though IV whereas Naltrexone is in pill form. Also I believe there is a difference, but they are both opioid receptor antagonists.


Don't you think the IV form would work better?


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## Surfingisfun001

*****Someone I know uses a drug forum in which they use phrases such as: SWIM (someone who isn't me) and also "AFOAF" (a friend of a friend), so to not self-incriminate. SWIM is going to be doing the same thing from now on FYI.****



eduEDU1 said:


> Don't you think the IV form would work better?


SWIM want's to try Naloxone due to the success rates. Naloxone is only administered through IV/IM.


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## Guest

surfingisfun001 said:


> *****Someone I know uses a drug forum in which they use phrases such as: SWIM (someone who isn't me) and also "AFOAF" (a friend of a friend), so to not self-incriminate. SWIM is going to be doing the same thing from now on FYI.****
> 
> 
> 
> eduEDU1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you think the IV form would work better?
> 
> 
> 
> SWIM want's to try Naloxone due to the success rates. Naloxone is only administered through IV/IM.
Click to expand...

So there is someone who likes to surf that is going to try it? Well me too ASAP.


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## Surfingisfun001

:roll: you missed the point


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## Guest

surfingisfun001 said:


> :roll: you missed the point


Then im confused :? what was the point Kenny?


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## bennyboy1

howdy into day 3. still really sick (not as sick tho - up and about now) but the dp is definitly decreased substantially, the dr remarkable amounts. its hard to pin point the exact changes yet. i def still feel `dp'ed' but its just so less severe.its ike i know it will be there tomorrow but what they hey! the one thing i can pin point is the wholeness,things feel whole mate if that makes any sense. and i feel a whole lot more confident that it can end - even in small patches - patch by patch in myself till i feel whole and me again. how gay this may sound i even found myself smiling at my reflection in the window today! first time in years! its like i remembered myself, not for long, but it was there and its coming back mate and this is only after 3 days. amazing. who knows how long it will last but its a break ive really been looking for. ive tried everyrhing - even 600mg of lamotragine and this is the closest so far to to gaining realness again. we are all sane just battle with the `realness' hey.

and yeah like the surfing fella was saying, he's probably right naloxone and naltrexone are slightly diff but they do the same thing, longer acting etc and all that jazz are the differences. they work on the same opiod receptor.

hope you are well edu.


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## Guest

bennyboy1 said:


> howdy into day 3. still really sick (not as sick tho - up and about now) but the dp is definitly decreased substantially, the dr remarkable amounts. its hard to pin point the exact changes yet. i def still feel `dp'ed' but its just so less severe.its ike i know it will be there tomorrow but what they hey! the one thing i can pin point is the wholeness,things feel whole mate if that makes any sense. and i feel a whole lot more confident that it can end - even in small patches - patch by patch in myself till i feel whole and me again. how gay this may sound i even found myself smiling at my reflection in the window today! first time in years! its like i remembered myself, not for long, but it was there and its coming back mate and this is only after 3 days. amazing. who knows how long it will last but its a break ive really been looking for. ive tried everyrhing - even 600mg of lamotragine and this is the closest so far to to gaining realness again. we are all sane just battle with the `realness' hey.
> 
> and yeah like the surfing fella was saying, he's probably right naloxone and naltrexone are slightly diff but they do the same thing, longer acting etc and all that jazz are the differences. they work on the same opiod receptor.
> 
> hope you are well edu.


Yes Im well thank you.  Im going to do it in shot form because for one, I love shots, and two I think it will work better. Glad to here your doing so good benny except for the sickness. Are you taking it in shot form?


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## bennyboy1

hiya. im taking it in the pill form 25mg. i just woke up and am feeling alot better today. its funny - i know a few others get this, but when you wake up the dp is generally the worst but again its not so bad, everything aroundme feels real and whole still. feel a bit anxious, shaky and agrophobic - maybe coz things are all a bit new again i guess  ! yeah i would go for the shot at a high dose if you can handle it.shots always get you right where you need it! ill have to build up or maintain this dose. cant be that sick again (i chugged a 50mg pill yestrday and it sent me gaga! though its not supposed to....???) i went to the doctor and i had severe gastro so that may have something to do with it - it is the start of winter sickness time here i guess.

goodluck edu. if it works for you great, if not we will work it out - one day. we have too.


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## Guest

bennyboy1 said:


> hiya. im taking it in the pill form 25mg. i just woke up and am feeling alot better today. its funny - i know a few others get this, but when you wake up the dp is generally the worst but again its not so bad, everything aroundme feels real and whole still. feel a bit anxious, shaky and agrophobic - maybe coz things are all a bit new again i guess  ! yeah i would go for the shot at a high dose if you can handle it.shots always get you right where you need it! ill have to build up or maintain this dose. cant be that sick again (i chugged a 50mg pill yestrday and it sent me gaga! though its not supposed to....???) i went to the doctor and i had severe gastro so that may have something to do with it - it is the start of winter sickness time here i guess.
> 
> goodluck edu. if it works for you great, if not we will work it out - one day. we have too.


Thanks Benny, you can call me Dannie by the way. And YES when I wake up my DP is ALWAYS at its worst, I mean you dont even feel like you exist. Im glad your DP is ceasing but would you recommend the pills or shots, I dont want to potentially make the wrong decision and miss my chance to come out of this DP. :wink:


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## bennyboy1

hiya dannie. mmm... that would have to be your call mate. i just went with what the studies say. some gave injections some took pills. i dont have the pleasure of choice here in oz, well in adelaide anyhow. its pills or nothing. though you can get implants but im not ready for that. id def go for what you feel most comfortable with and stick at it. make sure you have absoluty no opioiods at all in your body though before you go for it. you will withdraw in such pain.

my dp report today - not bad. yeah it was there, im still fairly sick physically and just got invited out and didnt feel at all like going so im not! but i shaved in the mirror and only once i thought about dp whilst shaving instead of just playing lucky shave!i kind of registered me in the mirror. it was like, hi benny! somethings happening dannie. something that i was hoping for but i didnt think would happen. dont get me wrong the dp is there, its just reduced, some hours throughout the day reduced dramatically some hours about the same. like i went to the supermarket today and usually the everything down each ile shines down on me but today it just seemed flat and boring just like supermarket sshould ! i felt bored! what a feeling!!!!

i see some light bud. i really do.


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## Guest

bennyboy1 said:


> hiya dannie. mmm... that would have to be your call mate. i just went with what the studies say. some gave injections some took pills. i dont have the pleasure of choice here in oz, well in adelaide anyhow. its pills or nothing. though you can get implants but im not ready for that. id def go for what you feel most comfortable with and stick at it. make sure you have absoluty no opioiods at all in your body though before you go for it. you will withdraw in such pain.
> 
> my dp report today - not bad. yeah it was there, im still fairly sick physically and just got invited out and didnt feel at all like going so im not! but i shaved in the mirror and only once i thought about dp whilst shaving instead of just playing lucky shave!i kind of registered me in the mirror. it was like, hi benny! somethings happening dannie. something that i was hoping for but i didnt think would happen. dont get me wrong the dp is there, its just reduced, some hours throughout the day reduced dramatically some hours about the same. like i went to the supermarket today and usually the everything down each ile shines down on me but today it just seemed flat and boring just like supermarket sshould ! i felt bored! what a feeling!!!!
> 
> i see some light bud. i really do.


HAHA!!!! good for you benny. :wink:


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## Deja_vu_256

awesome!


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## bennyboy1

tis awseme! im waking up as a new man each day - actually let me correct that - an old man the old benny! i remember me, i remember me alot. i can smell myself again, i can feel myself again, i can taste and hear myself again. i feel alive for the first time in god knows how long. yes the dp is still there - this is not a cure, but a light, a big lighthouse light! it is for me anyhow. i hope some others have some success with this. i am down to to the LDN.ORG routine taking just 4.5mg at 1am. yes its not the same opiod recetor the dp docs have been studying but that receptor is working for me! why i cant tell you, but it is. the high dose just made me to sick, i couldnt function at all. others, if you can, try with your doses! go high, go low but go!!!


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## Johnny Dep

Dick said:


> That makes NO sense!
> 
> If too much endorphin is responsible for DP it goes against everything in my personal experience of what makes DP better/worse.
> 
> If excess endogenous opioids really turn out to be the source of DP I think I will completely loose faith in thoughtful reduction.
> 
> I might just give up thinking and put my brain in a jar because if this is true then logical thought involving more than one step obviously doesn't work! DAMMIT
> 
> I really hope that there is more to DP than this, there must be some knock on effect happening or some secondary process of the drug which is responsible for helping those people. If not my mind will COLLAPSE :shock:
> 
> paaaaniiiccccccc
> 
> Looking on the bright side... at least there may be a cure after all


Inescapable pain often leads to endorphin production. In addition to numbing the pain endorphins can promote lethargy and apathy, the person or animal stops trying to escape the pain which helps in the numbing process. The idea behind using opiate blockers for disorders such as DP is that sufferers faced so much inescapable pain as children they got locked into mindset only suited for this, one which is horribly self desstructive in adulthood. Part of this is constantly elevated endorphin levels. The idea is that if you block the endorphins you stop them from promoting lethargy and apathy.

If your under the impression that endorphins produce a rush then you are misinformed. The only opiate which produces a rush is Heroin, all other opiates are on the numbing, not the rushing side. If you want to know what opiates do to you then buy kratom, its legal in most places and will let you know what high opiate levels do to a person. But kratom, morphine, opium etc, none of these will replicated the unique experience of Heroin.


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## bennyboy1

makes not a hell alota sense to me either dick but all i can say is that its really working and im into day 7 and the dp has still cleared up - for me - maybe its the combo of an SNRI, NALTREXONE, CLONAZEPAM AND VITAMIN B. things taste, things smell, my hearing even seems normal. other symptoms are still there - mirrors and sort of underlying dp but its not my forefront problem for the first time in f....n years!! its like once you stop thinking about it other things become prominent and it clears up in long big patches! if you can, go naltrexone. give it a go. if not just wait it out i guess and the dp will go away eventually


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## Angela2006

Benny - Thanks for all of your information and updates on Naltroxene. I have copied all of the posts from the last month and I am taking them to my pdoc next week. I'm fascinated by all of this and hopeful that there may be something to help. I have been dp'd for 35 years from a nasty bit of windowpane I took when I was 18. I have been on Celexa for years (does nothing for DP, but keeps the panic attacks at bay). I tried Marplan for three months earlier this year - strange drug - helped for a few weeks, but turned me into a crazy cleaning machine - couldn't sleep - had to keep cleaning the house! Ugh! I also take Xanax (1 mg/ day) to take the edge off when the anxiety/dp gets to be too much. Xanax is the only tdrug that has ever helped at all, and it doesn't help that much! I'll let you know what the pdoc says, and I will keep everyone apprised of my trial with Naltroxene. Ciao


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## bennyboy1

Hi angela. no worries at all. i need to emphasise - im not talking bollox! its really working!its not placebo, its not `just accepting' its not coz its `suddenly disapeared' its since i added naltrexone to the cocktail, the reduction in symptoms has been alot more than i was expecting. quite dramatic reduction.

last nite i spoke to an ex and we had a fight and i had emotions! real emotions! what the hell were they i thought, then i realised they are coming back!they were negative emotions, guilt, jealousy and anger but it was great! i was smiling afterwards!

so todays dp report, maybe because of the emotional turmoil lastnight i had a little more dp than yesterday and a little more dr, so its still there def but it then goes away and you get on with your day with confidence. the only way i can describe it is - ive crossed a bridge and the bridge then collapsed and i cant go back across. i moved from the dark side! like if i wanted it back full blown dp id have to drugs again. i can really see differences. i can taste differences,i can hear and smell familiar old smells!

really go for it. it is working for me but it hasnt worked for others, im sure you are aware of that. mess with the dosages. if its is 150mg a day you need then do that. if its 4.5 than do that. all i can say is that i never thought id even have a break from dp and ive had it bad (on the dr sierra scale i did with him, i was one of the highest!) and now its broken. its not my whole soul anymore.

so much love and support from me to you mate x


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## Surfingisfun001

wow benny that is so awesome. i'm going to bring up naltrexone with my psych today. hopefully he will allow me to try it, if not im going to do what angela said and print out all the success stories from here and show him. by the way, EDU got banned but I have been talking to him through other resources and he got a prescription for naltrexone and said he couldn't believe how much of a difference it made. i'm sure he would like to post his own personal experiences if he gets a chance to return to the forum but that's one more person who is seeing beneficial results from it.


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## Angela2006

Why did Danny get banned? I'm glad he tried the N drug. I think we are on to something here. I see my guy on Wednesday. I have a bunch of stuff for him to read, but he pretty much gives me what I want because I know so much more than he does about all of this!


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## Who_Am_I

Woah, shit.

Ok, how many people (exluding the people in the official russian study) has this worked on ?

Is there side effects/other dangers?

Is there permanent changes in a persons brain?

How much and how long did the people who got a 100% remission take i nthe study?


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## Angela2006

I think you need to go back through the threads and reads the posts. It will probably tell you everything what everybody else knows. Or you can google Naltrexone to find out about possible side effects. That is what I did.


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## bennyboy1

danny got banned? this is a site for help, not banning! just coz we all have bad days one shouldnt be banned! but hey what do i know...

im just really glad that he seeing the results! that is awseme!!! he shoudl be on the site sharing it so other people can try!!!! what is all the about!!!! il stop ranting.

im really pleased to surfindude that you are going to give it a go. i did excactly what angela is going to do and took pages of stuff to my psych and he basically couldnt say no!- an `unarmed' dp'er at your psych will get you nowhere. mine is fab but dodent really understand dp but just wants me to be well so thats great and im bloody more well than i have been in years!! good luck surfing dude, angela and edu!!! :

keep your posts on this. if we can get the exact dose that we all sort of agree on, combination with other meds, then weve found the dp light! well i can see it. i really can.


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## Surfingisfun001

That's awesome to hear benny. I have contact with Dannie through facebook so I will post updates about his experience when he shares them with me, that is if he wants me to. It's a shame he can't post them personally so others can read the experience of an active member from the site.


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## wael

To continue with the naloxone/naltrexone discussion after 5 days without Dpselfhelp.com.

I have to say that since i stopped with sertraline to use a mdma dose (lol), my anxiety and ocd is less (!wtf), but i lack stimulation. So it is going pretty well, but i still wanted to use naltrexone.

Went to my Psy 2 days ago and discussed naltrexone. Showed him the study of Simeon (i Think). The open trial with naltrexone. And surprisingly he agreed to prescribe me naltrexone. 50 mg a day for 2 weeks. Before i could use it i had to do a blood research to control some enzyms and other liver functions. So im on a steady 0.75 mg clonazepam for a couple a months already so the only variable will be naltrexone.

First day: Used 25 mg. I was quit nervous, but it had a good impact. Gave me some energy and little more brightness and confidence . In the evening i got very tired and trouble sleeping (confused for a couple of hours). No headaches or stomach problems.

Second day. Used 50 mg. After half a hour i started feeling somewhat high, but not high(?). I cant really describe it, but it was not a great feeling, and that's a understatement. Went down town for some distraction but had to return because i felt anxious. I wanted to get it out of my system. So i trew up, and took 1 mg clonazepam to calm me down. That helped. I think tomorrow i will take 25 mg again, because that was more succesful. Maybe that my body needs more adapting.

I will update this week how things are going.
greetings


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## Angela2006

I posted my reply above about the pdoc giving me naltrexone.

First Day - 25 mg. - Didn't feel better, actually after reading wael's post realized that what I did feel was some sort of weird anxiety. Strange, but I will try 25 mg. again tonight.


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## rob35235

Hey, do opiate pain killers make your symptoms worse for anyone? These are the opposite of opioid blockers you know?


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## Angela2006

Angela -

Day Two - 25 mg. at 6:00 pm - definitely not feeling better - had a hard time sleeping - terrible dp/dr this morning. Had to take a Xanax to feel better. I might just be one of those people who doesn't respond to this, but I am going to try a smaller amt. tonight and see what happens. I know Benny was only on 4.5 LD.


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## bennyboy1

hiya. looks like we are back on line!

i think im into about day 20 now of 4.5 mg at 1AM each night (have too set my alarm) - its still working 

can you beleive it. i still cant! i was the dp king! def some dp today and went to a shop today and it was a bit colourful but all my senses, emotions and sense of self is here still. i just cant believe it. and life is really stressful at the mo, hence the dp should be bad and its just not. im totally distracted by new thoughts and feelings that the dp is becoming nothing. i even started to panic about what i was supposed to be thinking about now after so many f#$%kn years ofthis shyte!

side effects - sleep rubbish. sex drive has become high (not sure of this is good or bad. it just feels a little to pumped) and thats it now. must have got through the sickness atlast.was awful for the first week.

i hope others are having success. i just cant beleive its working for me. soz if thats sounds selfish - but its going and of course i fear it coming back but i just cant see now how it could. surreal - in a good way! cant beleive i can even say that!


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## wael

Update:

Day 3: back to 25 mg. Didn't notice anything in positive way. Still get the feeling of being slightly high or something like that. 
The only positive effect is that my vision is better. I used to have eyeside that differed from time to time, but with naltrex this better


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## wael

day 4: stopped taking naltrexone. I dont feel comfortable with it. I cant imagine that i have to take 100\150 mg as they did in the study. Perhaps im going to take 12.5 mg or less. But it seem naltrexone is not the wonder drug for me.


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## Angela2006

Benny - So glad the Naltrexone is working for you. I'm not having much luck. How did you end up getting the 4.5 froom the 25 tablets you were on? Did you go back to your doctor and they prescribed it? My insurance won't pay, so if I could get the 4.5 it wouldn't be so expensive. I hate to give up - but I have taken 25 mg. for three nights and I just feel lousy. Why do you take it at 1 am? Glad to see you back. I still don't know why the sight was down for five days!


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## wael

Even small amouts of naltrexone makes me feel sick. Last 2 days I used just 6 mg a day. Im now certain that i dont want to use it anymore. So my naltrexone trial is over.


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## Deja_vu_256

yeah - that's interesting... at 1am - mostly gone b4 u wake up - perhaps it's effect is 100% indirect and it just "changes things around" while you sleep -- i'm too am very interested on whether this is sumthing you found works or sumthing your doctor suggested. (benny)

Also, benny, i'd like to thank you for sharing your experiences with all of us. Your recovery (and many of ours) has been long overdue and i'm VERY glad to see that your seeing so many signs of recovery and i hope that everything continues to go well for you. i hope to see more updates. And if you wouldn't mind, it would be awesome to see your story on the recovery forums (if or when you think your ready).


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## Surfingisfun001

Hey guys I'm glad this is working for some of you. I have decided to hold off on this for a little while because I am going to be out of town for a while soon. When I get back I am going to bring it up with my psychiatrist and see what he says. If I do end up trying it I'll make sure to post in this thread. Hope you guys continue to get better and for those who it hasn't worked for, there's gotta be something out there that will.


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## bennyboy1

Hiya, I think im into day 24. as i have said b4 i have alot of stress in my life at the mo so the dp should be full blown but the dp still isnt there! - oh lets not go too far benny - its still there its just not the ruler of the day anymore. its a silent pain in the [email protected]#$e but its just not my life anymore. im even going on a plane this weekend to a great spot to go on a holiday and im really excited. excited! yes a happy feeling. im so distracted about not having full blown dp that its getting less each day. the naltrexone fills me with energy, i feel invigorated and positive that each day the dp is going to go for good. i cant beleive i am saying that!

im working better, i remember so much more clearly, im so much more organised each morning, there is no fog/lethargy, my brain feels unweighed down and i can just get on and do things as a normal person. i was the dp of dp!!!! i was just dp for years!!!! why is this working????????????????

naltrexone 4.5mg 1am each night (have to set the alarm) (have to buy a pilll cutter and weigh scales to cut the 25mg pills close as i can to 4.5mg - some are over some are under but as long as its around that mark it works! it working for me.) i found all this info on ldn.org - low dose naltrexone. the high dose killed me. as i have said before it was stated that it was high doses that worked for dp and maybe it does for some people thankfully. but i persisited on a low dose on a different opiod receptor and it worked almost instantly.

snri - cymbalta (started exactly the same time as the naltrexone and i think it must be kicking in) we are low in norprinphrne and this has bought it up.

clonazepam - im down to .5mg a day

vitamin b complex 24 hour release.

i just cant believe it. i had a cupla beers last night and i usaully have full blown dp the next day after booze and again, the dp is just a little nagging thing!!!! not my day.

love to you all, benny (the not king of dp anymore!) thank f#@K!!!

thanks for all your support guys. couldnt have done it without this site.


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## Johnny Dep

surfingisfun001 said:


> Hey guys I'm glad this is working for some of you. I have decided to hold off on this for a little while because I am going to be out of town for a while soon. When I get back I am going to bring it up with my psychiatrist and see what he says. If I do end up trying it I'll make sure to post in this thread. Hope you guys continue to get better and for those who it hasn't worked for, there's gotta be something out there that will.


Don't wait too long, I've been waiting to see if it works for you to see if I should try it.


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## Angela2006

Benny - why do you take the 4.5 at 1 am?


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## bennyboy1

hi angela. i wouldve never worked the 1am thing out myself but according to ldn.org and other blogs the later in the night the better as the naltrexone does give you insomnia - but it feelslike a positive insomnia. dont ask me why? but according to ldn.org and i dont know how true it is, but it is for me and alot of others, your endoerphin system really shuts down the most between 2am and 4 am so i take it at 1am so im basically awake for about 30 to 45 mins then go into a deep sleep then my endorphins go into over drive about 6 - 7 am and im waking up with dp reduced some mornings now by up to 70%. its truely wonderful. its really working/ i cant beleive im going on a plane, holiday and a trip of life time tomorrow and im really excited! not a dp/dr anxiety depressed agrophobic mess 24/7! i can say in a year the rate that its going this dp hell of 14 years will be no more!!!!!i cant believe it.

lotsa love to you angela


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## Surfingisfun001

Wow benny i am truly happy to hear this has worked so well for you. i can't believe it, it's one thing to read a study about it but to hear your personal experience and updates makes it all the more real.

Johnny I'm guna be leaving to go out of town soon and will be busy until at least August, I will make sure to contact you though if I go up to LA but most likely will talk to my psychiatrist first and see what he thinks and if he can prescribe it. If you're waiting around with nothing to do it couldn't hurt to see someone and give it a go, there's really nothing to lose right?


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## Angela2006

Benny - I am so happy for you. Have a great holiday!


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## Deja_vu_256

hey wael, i know your kind of turned of by naltrexone at the moment, but i was wondering if you ever tried a low doses (3-5mg) of naltrexone late at nite (like benny). I'm sorry to see you haven't yielded too great of results, but perhaps the timing is just as important as the dosage. Even benny said that he didn't like taking high doses... and perhaps that crappy feeling you associate naltrexone will never come around if you sleep through it (and perhaps you sleep through the good feeling when you take it during the day). Just thought i would ask - if you haven't tried that, i would definitely give it a try...


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## Lost-in-Space

Dr. James Halper, Professor of Psychiatry at NY Medical Center in New York City, is going to start a naloxone study. If you are interested, call him at 212-372-0287 or fax:212-751-2148 I am going to take part, so join me. Maybe we can shoot up together.


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## Claymore

Lost-in-Space said:


> Dr. James Halper, Professor of Psychiatry at NY Medical Center in New York City, is going to start a naloxone study. If you are interested, call him at 212-372-0287 or fax:212-751-2148 I am going to take part, so join me. Maybe we can shoot up together.


Is he doing it for DP and do you have to pay for a hotel room while you are there or what cause im broke.


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## Lost-in-Space

He is going to do it for DP/DR as far as I know. I doubt there will be money for hotel rooms though. There are a few DPers in NYC, maybe they could put you up.


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## Claymore

Lost-in-Space said:


> He is going to do it for DP/DR as far as I know. I doubt there will be money for hotel rooms though. There are a few DPers in NYC, maybe they could put you up.


I wonder how I could get in touch with them. :|


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## comfortably numb

Is it just the fact that my brain is reeling right now (long story) or where there no placebo controlled trials with this? I may have missed it because my attension span today is approaching zero.

Also i dunno what kinda morphine these guys where taking but it isint the same stuff i take. Morphine is nothing like depersonalization. In fact morphine used to take away my dp/dr and brain fog.


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## Claymore

comfortably numb said:


> Is it just the fact that my brain is reeling right now (long story) or where there no placebo controlled trials with this? I may have missed it because my attension span today is approaching zero.
> 
> Also i dunno what kinda morphine these guys where taking but it isint the same stuff i take. Morphine is nothing like depersonalization. In fact morphine used to take away my dp/dr and brain fog.


Yeah opiates often help a LOT with DP/DR.


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## Angela2006

Benny - Are you still out there? Are you still having luck with the naltrexone?


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## = n

I imagine from Bennys last post that he is on holiday (vacation).

Just to be clear- what Benny was taking was low-dose naltrexone ('LDN'), which as i understand it is something of a controversial alternative treatment/ 'miracle cure'.

It's actually something i've become interested in recently, though i haven't got hold of any Naltrexone (i'm not even currently registered with a doctor/ mental health practitioner). It's rather different from the High-dose naltrexone Wael and Angela appear to have been taking and supposedly works on different principles.

I wonder if it is possible to buy some online somewhere (perhaps from Wael  )..


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## bennyboy1

Hiya! I,m back from my holiday. I went on a plane and a had a nana nap on the flight too! two things that dper's arnt supposed to be able to do - a nap (shocking dp after a nap during the day) and fly (terrible anxiety and clausrtrapobia)!but i did both and i was fine - well half fine. finer than ive bin in years. the plane well that wasnt the big thing for me it was the nap! i havent had a nap in nearly 10 years! i woke up - still on the plane - i wasnt disorientated, wasnt fogged to the max, wasnt like `who the hell am i?' i was just plain and boring.

yep the dp is still there, but in the past two weeks i have only had `attacks.' it comes on briefly, no reason still, then i concentrate on something else or something distracts me and `wallah!' its gone again. its not 24/7 at all. life is still a little strange, like something is still bugging me, if that makes any sense and i still feel a little blank and also a little humourless, but dp is just dissaperaing out of this soul! if this keeps up i will be dp and med free in a year or two i reckon! rock! i even got emotions! i havent had proper emotions for so many years!!!! why, i can only put it down to low dose naltrexone (no im not getting sponsored by them for this write up :lol: )since i got that dose right something happened. i know its not the opiod receptor all our wonderful dp psychs have been studying, but it worked, it worked immediatley and i was the dp king like i have siad before. i can kind of laugh about it now. on a scale i guess the dp is like a 4 out of 10 if - 10 is the worst. i was 8-10 each day before ldn. now its 2-4. i still cant believe it.

- i cut a 4.5 gram pill from a 25gram pill myself - take it between 11pm and 1 am each night and lately ive bin missing nites and it hasnt made a difference.

-60mg of cymbalta

-cutting down every 2 weeks with the clonazepam - down to .625mg - however very importantly i sometimes take 1.5mg if i can feel dp in the morning and for some reason it dosent come on at all with the combination.

-24hr slow release vitamin b

i hope this post is helping someone else. i just cant beleive it still. its like is worth it again!!!!


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## wael

Great for you Benny, i hope you get even better the coming months!

Hee =n, it is a month ago that i took my last naltrexone. I was surprised that my psy prescribed it, but he is quite liberal and it is mentioned in the Sierra papers.
The last days of that trip i only took 6 mg and i still got sick and a really strange feeling. But i cant imagine that i had to take 
150 mg or higher. But maybe i did something wrong? I dont know the details of the study of naltrexone with dpers..
It is also possible that it isn't my type of medication. Everyone is different.

I can imagine that you are thrilled to go for naltrexone. I was too. Perhaps you have to explain to your psy that you are thinking of purchasing naltrexone on the internet or from fellow dp'ers. 
I dont advice you to buy on the internet. Naltrexone is expensive( you dont know it is real), and there is no demand for it.
I bought medication on the internet, with different results.

If you cant get it out of your mind you can PM me and discuss the possibilities.


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## bennyboy1

hiya all. i thought i better update my status for anyone intersested. hope you all are doin ok in our dp sort of way!

well, i stopped taking naltrexone 4.5mg per night 3 weeks ago (after 6 weeks of usage i think) to see if i needed it still and i was getting pretty nasty nightmares (when i did sleep!) and i have also had an ex girlfriend re enter my life which has been nothing but stress --- so the dp came back. not full blown dp, just this ugly feeling that it was coming back full blown. anyway 3 nights ago i started the naltrexone at 10pm again each night and `wallah!!!' it reduced again massivly! why??? i cant really tell you exactly!!! but without the naltrexone i think i was heading back! actaully i can only beleive it is becauase of the naltrexxne again. i have got my confidence again, my cognitive function is back to working like a normal person, mybody is mine, my world is mine and the brain fog has gone again in just 3 days of restarting! - the dp? nup not totally but a whole lotta of the symptoms have gone again really quickly. its so easy to fight the rest when its only a few symptoms. theres no turning back now for me.

hope this helps someone
benny


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## jasongitar

Awesome man, this give me hope. I'm finally going to be starting my Naltrexone prescription this week after I was able to figure out how to take it in low 4.5 mg doses. I was reading for those who have sleep problems that it is best to go down to 3mgs, something you may want to look into if you are having bad dreams. Anyway I'll report in on its effects.


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## bennyboy1

thanks jason, i will have a look into that. the nightmares have reduced dramatically though which is great. when i cant sleep or i start getting nightmares i take .5mg of alprazolam (i askedmy psych if he new of a good sleeping pill) with the naltrexone and i sleep like a baby! and what i hav noticed and i reckon loads of other dpers have noticed the correlation bewtween sleep and dp is undeniable. so when i take the alprazolam with the naltrexone its only for about the first 3-5 minutes in the morning the dp is there and then its realy not there at all anymore fortherestof the day. LDN really works! its fricken amazin! and when i sleepreally well its like its not there at all! i still have dp dont get me wrong but the symptoms have reduced so much i cant beleive it somedays. its like i have something bugging me rather than having dp. i can live with that!i was starting to not want to livenmore as i thought the dpwould neva go away. and now thats all changed!

hope you are feeeling better jason. hang inthere brother and im with ya regarless of it works for you or not.


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## Guest

I am stunned. I am so terrified to change meds. I'd gather it is best to also discontinue meds I've been on for years. THAT terrifies me. I am petrified of getting stuck in some horrible states I haven't had for @4 years. That is huge for me. But this is sounding more and more promising. Holy smokes. :shock:

I'm just plain tired of experimenting and dont' want to rock the boat.

A rock and a hard place. :?


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## rob35235

Is this drug actually working for more than just 1 or 2 people?

What about the study being conducted by Dr. James Halper at NY Medical Center... or other formal University studies? We need to be able to formalize the treatment if all of us are going to be helped.  Any word?


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## sydneyarnce

Anyone else since this? (2009)

Really about to try this if the Lamictal doesn't start working


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## Opus131

I would like to know this as well.

My DP, assuming it is DP, is probably the single worst case in existence, at least going by what others have said in forums such as this. I remember writing a post here around 2010 detailing how terrible my DP was, especially in terms of my memory. In the six years that have gone since my symptoms have worsened continuously, until about six weeks ago i got hit with the most massive increase in DP symptoms i've ever experienced so far, and i'm now at a point where i can pretty much consider myself to be dead (to have the DP i had in 2010 would be a dream now). First, my memory is gone, and i mean pretty much most of it. And i don't mean this in an hyperbolic sense. I mean literally. I have near nigh total anterograde amnesia where i'm only able to retain about 5% of anything i experience, usually just some faint visual which goes away after a few hours, and some ability to retain facts which is what allows me to function to some degree. As far as my own self goes and my capacity to feel and experience things, that's pretty much gone as well, to the point sometimes even something as simple as a concept or idea seems difficult to grasp because it has no reality to it. The only thing that holds me together is whatever trace of memory i have of past things. Anything new, a new experience, a new concept, nothing registers and my brain simply doesn't even understand it. This means no new experiences of any kind. No movies, no books, no going out with friends or anything like that. I feel nothing, and remember nothing. All i do now is basically stand around familiar places and try to soak on whatever vestigial trace i have of past memories and experiences.

I could probably go on, but i think i made my point. Either way, the most curious aspect of my DP, as opposed to many here, is precisely the fact that it has worsened in such a progressive manner, but more than that, that is has worsened in response to things i ingest, sugar most of all, but also anything that is either too loaded in carbs, or has too much salt, or if i eat anything in large quantities (especially meat). And each time i screw up with any of those items (and i screw up constantly, especially since my DP makes me apathetic about the dangers so usually i indulge in something thinking "it cannot hurt me", even though invariably it always does) i feel intoxicated on top of being completely spaced out, confused, unable to concentrate and very anxious and jittery. Sometimes the experience feels like an hangover, and the symptoms often last all day and all night as well (depending how bad they are i also can't fall asleep, just like a real hangover). And every time this happens my DP worsens, permanently. It is basically as if i were to smoke marijuana every time i eat (i contracted my DP from a panic disorder, not marijuana, but i know some people have it because of cannabis and i'm just using this as an example. Incidentally, i once had a friend smoke a joint in the car while i was driving and the passive smoke gave me an "high", which, unsurprisingly, made my DP worse, of course, permanently). Out of all things though, sugar is the worse, especially refined sugar. Even a small drop of sugar on my tongue makes me go off on some kind of drug induced joy ride (without any euphoria or pleasure, just the bad side effects), and my DP goes haywire.

Which brings me to the topic at hand, because until a few weeks ago i have come to believe this was all a result of a massive shrinkage of my hippocampus, or something like that, due to years of chronic depression/anxiety/stress and possibly hyperglycemia, glutamate toxicity and who knows what else. Mind you, i just had an MRI which appears to be "normal" but then again who knows how accurate those things are and besides who's to say that the doctor gave nothing but a superficial reading? (This is my anxiety speaking, of course). But now this opiate theory is starting to make more sense, especially after googling food and opioids, which, low and behold, include things like sugar, dairy (of which i eat a ton), meat (especially red meat, of which again i eat a lot), wheat (this is almost as bad as sugar. Even a scant quantity of wheat or whole grain based cereals sends me to DP hell), chocolate (which is terrible as well, even the 100% dark, sugar free kind), and last but not least, caffeine (especially if i take it up against after quitting, Generally, if i drink coffee regularly the effect is not as strong). Supposedly fat is bad as well but that's neither here no there. Ho, also, exercise or anything related to the release of endorphins also has an opioid agonist effect. Which would explain why every time i tried to exercise my DP became worse. And i'm now wondering, how many of those here who tried Naloxone and failed to gain anything positive from it ate all those opioid inducing foods?

In a few weeks i have an appointment with a neurologist and i'll try to see if i can convince him to let me try to this Naloxone thing. I'll report back to post the results (assuming i'll remember), i guess. One thing i found curious is that not many people here seems to have tried this. How come? Shouldn't this be some kind of breakthrough? Even if there are no extensive studies and trials i would assume that something that *might* have worked for some people is better than something that has been no help whatsoever, which is pretty much everything else.

BTW, i've been checking opioid antagonists, and apparently there's nothing in nature that has this effect. Pity, since i wanted some supplement to see at least if i'm on the right track, especially if the doctor refuses to prescribe Naloxone.


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## TDX

I think you have zero chance to get the Naloxone, because it has to be given intreavenously. Your neurologist won't have it.

Your chance to get Naltrexone or Nalmefene might be better. You might test one of them in a low dose and then in a high dose to determine whether blocking the mu-opioid-receptor or the kappa-opioid-receptor might work for you.


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## tablet

Hello to you all, I understand all your frustrations with the inadequate understanding of this condition. It should not be this way but for some reason this condition seems to be neglected here in the UK in so called main stream psychiatry. Maybe this is because they don't accept It as a primary disorder.

It is also extremely difficult to get a diagnosis of depersonalization disorder. Maybe a diagnosis of a personality disorder or depression instead. I have had a lot of experience with depersonalization and the mental health services in the UK....and .my experience of them.... diabolical, substandard service very poor understanding if at all one. I have had depersonalization for almost 30 years. And I received an official diagnosis 10 years back. I have been on lamotrigine and ssri combination, anti psychotic medication, synthetic opioids, NRI, mirtazipine, Benzos. I am currently on nalmefene I managed to get my psychiatrist to prescribe this it took years to get them to do it they seemed very reluctant to prescribe it. I have been taking this for almost a year and a half. I started very gradual quarter of a tablet to now being on 4 tablets a day it helps with anxiety some what and its difficult to anticipate panic through existential thinking why are we here etc. as for helping with emotional numbness and memory nothing so far. Although when you go up in dose there a warm fuzzy feeling wheres off. And never happens again. Glover stated the effects of nalmefene take effect on emotional numbness at 50mg bid. Adding this to tricyclic such as clomiprimine may help.

Any question please ask?

Tablet


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## TDX

> I have been taking this for almost a year and a half. I started very gradual quarter of a tablet to now being on 4 tablets a day it helps with anxiety some what and its difficult to anticipate panic through existential thinking why are we here etc. as for helping with emotional numbness and memory nothing so far. Although when you go up in dose there a warm fuzzy feeling wheres off. And never happens again. Glover stated the effects of nalmefene take effect on emotional numbness at 50mg bid.


Instead of taking 50 mg/day for 1.5 year I would just go as quickly as possible to the 200 mg/day to see if it works and throw it away if it does not and try to get Buprenorphine instead if it does (because Nalmefene is very expensive).


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## tablet

I managed to get my psychiatrist here in the UK to prescribe buprenorphine initially it helped with derealization everything looked solid 3D and you could look way out into the distance. it was very calming. Again nothing on the numbing or memory problems. Then I tried combining it with naltrexone and it had given me a massive flash back and Adrenalin rushes.

After this event I would get the rushes every time took just buprenorphine on its own psychological ?

The problem is with these medications or any for depersonalization is they are very difficult to get prescribed and the psychiatrist seem reluctant to use unlicensed medicines even with some evidence base. It is also difficult to reach the kind of doses reported by Glovers. 200mg of nalmefene is an impossible achievement as my psychiatrist wont do that.

one last note that is interesting, when I first took nalmefene it had given me very intense feelings of strangeness and unfamiliarity. This can be backed up by the following attachment. This sudden increase in depersonalization is reported by Glover in his reports when administrating an anti opioid.

We will never know if this works because no psychiatrist seems willing to give it a good go. Someone mentioned in this forum that they were prescribed nalmefene at the Maudsleys kings college London. It would interesting to know the dose they went up to.


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## luctor et emergo

tablet said:


> We will never know if this works because no psychiatrist seems willing to give it a good go. Someone mentioned in this forum that they were prescribed nalmefene at the Maudsleys kings college London. It would interesting to know the dose they went up to.


We will know if a high dose of nalmefene works end of this year or in the first months of 2017.

Last November I tried upping the dose in a "normal" way. With every small increase my anxiety worsened. This and an unstable private situation led me to discontinue.

The study says that adding a benzo helps with managing anxiety. But after 7 years being on klonopin and now 18 months of, there are still withdrawal symptons.
So no benzo for me anymore. High doses of l-theanine might help, currently I take about 1500mg/d.

My psychatrist is willing to act outside the box so she will prescribe almost everything.

At the moment I'm trying 600mg of lamotrigine, 40mg fluoxetine and 300mg bupropion.

Nalmefene absolutely is getting a second chance!


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## TDX

> Then I tried combining it with naltrexone and it had given me a massive flash back and Adrenalin rushes.


Could you explain the flashback in more details? Do you have a trauma or PTSD? This could possibly have some influence.

I mean it's surprising, because in the ALKS-5461 trials there were no significant side-effects.

It would be interesting to have the full text of this study:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.13375/abstract

It's the largest (and maybe only) study of Buprenorphine-Naltrexone. They might have investigated side-effects, but there is nothing about it in the abstract.

Another question: How did you convince your psychiatrist to precribe Buprenorphine?

Maybe the ORL-1-agonism of Buprenorphine plays a role, too:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1517/13543776.15.4.357?journalCode=ietp20


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## tablet

I had a Trauma that made me go into depersonalization derealization. The flash back was an over whelming feeling that I went back in time to the day the trauma happened the smell and the ambiance. And I was getting what the paramedics and doctors termed the rushes. Even the benzo could not stop the rushes. The strange thing is the rushes lasted about two weeks. After stopping the combination of naltrexone and buprenophine. very severe rushing adrenaline feeling.

As for the psychiatrist prescribing buprenorphine. He was clueless about depersonalization I just asked him to prescribe it and told him these types of medication can help with some of the symptoms of depersonalization so he written me a prescription for 800ug tablets 28 of them. I took just two and ended up in A and E with breathing difficulties and vomiting it nearly I was vomiting all night long.

have a look at the following:

http://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1159&context=crvaw_facpub

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02102972#page-1


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## TDX

> I had a Trauma that made me go into depersonalization derealization. The flash back was an over whelming feeling that I went back in time to the day the trauma happened the smell and the ambiance. And I was getting what the paramedics and doctors termed the rushes. Even the benzo could not stop the rushes. The strange thing is the rushes lasted about two weeks. After stopping the combination of naltrexone and buprenophine. very severe rushing adrenaline feeling.


Then maybe your trauma and a lot of bad luck might explain this reaction.

Maybe the flashbacks prevent somehow the success of Bup-Naltrexone. My knowledge about PTSD is very low, but maybe there are medications that work against the flashbacks, that could be combined with Bup-Naltrexone. Maybe Topiramat is useful for this. There is some conflicting evidence that it can do this. For theoretical reasons it might also work against DP, but this is speculation on my behalf.



> As for the psychiatrist prescribing buprenorphine. He was clueless about depersonalization I just asked him to prescribe it and told him these types of medication can help with some of the symptoms of depersonalization so he written me a prescription for 800ug tablets 28 of them.


There should be more doctors like this.


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## tablet

Does anyone here get fleeting sensations with there depersonalization e.g a sudden transient fleeting sensation?

How many here suffer with emotional numbing and memory problems and no sensation of time.

How do you describe your experience of this hell do you sense a lack of urgency with your psychiatrist interventions?


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## TDX

By PM I received some concern about my post http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/17268-naloxone-for-depersonalization-study-a-success/page-7#entry374321.

To make it clear. With "as quickly as possible" I do not mean to take 200 mg *instantly*. It should be titrated up of course. In his 2 patents Glover says how this could be done fairly quickly:

http://www.google.com/patents/US20040242974

http://www.google.com/patents/US5028612

Of course there is also a certain element of risk, because almost all clinical trials, that where done to make Nalmefene FDA-approved, had a dosage of 50 mg/day. While the trials of Glover and Simeon suggest that high dosages are no problem if lower dosages are tolerated, it should be noted that they consisted only of a limited number of participants, so there might be unknown risks.

Especially tablet should be careful if he tries high-dose Nalmefene, because Buprenorphine-Naltrexone did have some unpleasant effects.


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## ThoughtOnFire

TDX said:


> By PM I received some concern about my post http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/17268-naloxone-for-depersonalization-study-a-success/page-7#entry374321.
> 
> To make it clear. With "as quickly as possible" I do not mean to take 200 mg *instantly*. It should be titrated up of course. In his 2 patents Glover says how this could be done fairly quickly:
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents/US20040242974
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents/US5028612
> 
> Of course there is also a certain element of risk, because almost all clinical trials, that where done to make Nalmefene FDA-approved, had a dosage of 50 mg/day. While the trials of Glover and Simeon suggest that high dosages are no problem if lower dosages are tolerated, it should be noted that they consisted only of a limited number of participants, so there might be unknown risks.
> 
> Especially tablet should be careful if he tries high-dose Nalmefene, because Buprenorphine-Naltrexone did have some unpleasant effects.


While TDX's advice may be sound or not, (I do not know), it should be noted that he is not a professional; And any changes to medications, whether to take more, take less, cold turkey, or any new addition to your regimen should be discussed with a qualified psychiatrist.


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## Opus131

TDX said:


> I think you have zero chance to get the Naloxone, because it has to be given intreavenously. Your neurologist won't have it.
> 
> Your chance to get Naltrexone or Nalmefene might be better. You might test one of them in a low dose and then in a high dose to determine whether blocking the mu-opioid-receptor or the kappa-opioid-receptor might work for you.


I can get a referral from him. I live in Italy, and doctors here are slightly more pliant towards patients.

For the record, is there no natural way to block this opioid receptor at all? Google doesn't help. My appointment is two weeks away and even if i can get a referral to get tested with Naloxone i wonder how long will that take. I'd like to give this a try. Everything else failed utterly and miserably for me, what do i got to lose anyway.


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## tablet

Maximum dosage of nalmefene in FDA trials was 80mg but offer no benefit over that of alcohol at 20mg. That is why its 18.6mg for alcohol.

What is the long term effects of emotional numbing and constant manufacture of high levels of endorphin's in the brain?


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## tablet

My last post see link is here:

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2005/1101/p1775.html


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## luctor et emergo

Double post


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## luctor et emergo

Mmm in 2008 I tried after updosing 125mg/d Naltrexone, but the anxiety worsened.
Last year I tried after updosing around 100mg/d Nalmefene / Selincro as the tablets are 18.06mg.

Again worsened anxiety. In theory the endorphin, dynorphin ratio / balance (idk exactly, Elliott explained this in an other topic) should become so that the positive effects will show, like reduced emotional numbing (Glover).

As anxiety is one of the primal emotions, it could be that you have to feel worse initially so once you come thru your emotions will be in check which leads to less dissociation.

But this is speculation from my side. The real "scientists" on this board could shed some light on this.


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## Opus131

If i understand the theory correctly, i'm not entirely sure whether this type of therapy would help with emotional numbing (i had that years before i got depersonalization). Emotional numbing, and symptoms of a similar nature, might be tied with shrinking in the hippocampus, an effect of anxiety and depression. Depersonalization to me feels like an intoxication, like an altering in consciousness and perception which is clearly distinct from any effect related to depression and anxiety (and i went through all of them long before i ever entered this dissociative nightmare). Basically, i woke up one day, and found that my consciousness and everything that made me what i was, not only my perception of reality but also my thoughts and my memory, were disappearing into oblivion and darkness. The difference was like night and day, not something one can mistake for a "bad" bout of depression or anxiety. I'm talking about a radical shift, something that almost feels like being in a state of extreme drunkenness, except without any high, just a complete reduction in consciousness, as if i was slowly fading out of existence, literally like dying or falling into a coma while remaining awake and aware. If this is an effect of the body producing a natural opioid, i would think the only type of symptoms this Naloxone therapy would address are those related to the fading out of consciousness part. Everything else related to depression and anxiety apart from the dissociation element would remain the same.

Now with that said, it seems clear to me that not everyone here is experiencing the same type of symptoms. People describe depersonalization as being something similar to an out of body experience. Others say that reality feels unfamiliar to them. I sometimes get that with my panic attacks, but those are not my main symptoms. The gradual (and inexorable) obliteration of consciousness and memory is what i'm experiencing the most. Depression and anxiety seem to affect the mind in many different ways, and the production of natural narcotics in the body may not necessarily be the cause of some of the symptoms some people are experiencing, hence, why the therapy may be completely ineffective to them.


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