# Emotional Trauma and DP. RECOVER HERE



## Barry b

Most that are experiencing the very odd sensation of DP are completely ignorant to the fact that this dissociative disorder has to do with some type of emotional abuse or trauma. It's not your fault because this information is essentially new to the study of the disorder. Every single one of you (and I mean every single one of you) experienced some emotional trauma from your parents or guardian whether you think so or not. I was opposed to the thought of this as well until I bought Harris harrington's Ebook because my DP was so terrible. I would have to leave classes at college everyday in fear of having panic attacks in class. I am completely panic and anxiety free now but with a little lingering DP. The DR is completely gone.

Do this for me. Think about how your parent have played their roles in your life. Believe it or not they are the reason for your dissociation right now. You were treated with some type of emotional abuse whether you were always made out to feel guilty for your actions, you had workaholic or alcoholic parents, and your actions always had to achieve something suitable for your parent's perspectives whether it felt right to your or not. Have you noticed you are dependent on other people for their feelings instead of your own? Maybe a boyfriend of girlfriend you were so attached to you couldn't live without? This all has to do with how attached you were to you parents and their emotional abuse in your childhood.

Write a narrative essay about your life in order to rid of this stress you may not even know about. Try to recall key moments in your life where your parents affected you emotionally in some way. Don't be afraid to write about your parents negatively because this is how you become significantly repersonalized by discharging these emptions. Detail this essay a much as possible and include major traumatic events in chronological order. Perfect this essay and try to have fun with writing about your life. Even confront your parents about the way they raised you and you will lose panic attacks instantly no joke, it all has to do with neuroscience.

This sounds a bit far fetched but I guarantee that you will see huge results in your overall feeling of DP/DR. I am free from any panic attacks and feeling of unrealness and am taking my life in the right direction.

Also do not be afraid to start being a positive person and using affirmations to get you through the day it has helped me immensely. Type in affirmations on YouTube and find one you like and listen to it three times throughout your day. I know all the pain everyone has went through and experienced every horrible symptom that has been discussed over this forum. If you listen to what I have to say there is no question that you will see exceptional results and hopefully a cure. Cure is possible despite popular opinion just be positive and keep writing your narrative, you begin to learn a lot about yourself. Any questions or concerns reply here and I'll see what I can help you with!

Good luck and remember there's always a way out


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## Barry b

I will go more in depth with this some other time, but I have a busy day tomorrow. I will try to string together something significant for you guys by the end of the week.


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## derkdiggler

ya please do cuz i own the harris vids but i didnt really get much out of them it just seems really hard to understand like a pyschology class or something if you could elaborate that would be great


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## opie37060

I also watched all the harris harringtion videos and got absolutely nothing from it. The problem is my parents were always home, always loving, never fought (not even once, atleast in front of me and my brother), and gave me everything I needed, and are supportive to this day with my day to day struggle of dp/dr. If I expereinced any kind of emotional trauma when I was younger it wasn't from them. That's why I find Harris Harrington's program so hard to believe. Even after trying out the exercises they did nothing for me. I don't think everyone that has dp has some kind of trauma. A lot are from anxiety and drug use and it comes out because we are proned to it.


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## kate_edwin

Trauma is nnot new to the study of dp&#8230;&#8230;

if you have a trauma related dissociative disorder, yes writing can help, but the chance of one essay written without any guidance giving someone significant relief is kind of
slim&#8230;


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## FacelessJane

opie37060 said:


> ... my parents were always home, always loving, never fought (not even once, atleast in front of me and my brother), and gave me everything I needed, and are supportive to this day with my day to day struggle of dp/dr. If I expereinced any kind of emotional trauma when I was younger it wasn't from them. ... I don't think everyone that has dp has some kind of trauma. A lot are from anxiety and drug use and it comes out because we are proned to it.


I'm in the same boat as Opie here. I had a terrific childhood.

Just so happens I was predisposed to depression and anxiety, inherited my mother's genetics. I have always been codependent, and it's not from abuse, but from being shy and always having my sister around playing with me. Maybe I developed an inferiority complex since young childhood. But I was never abused in any way.
When I started smoking weed, I was in a codependent and unhealthy relationship that undermined my social and emotional health. It made my dp/dr much more significantly inhibiting. Only now, being six months sober, out of that relationship, and reengaging socially (which is terrifying), am I improving, slowly and with relapse into dp/dr.

Blanket statements just don't work, dude.


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## = n

I tend to agree with Barry B here, although he might have put it -a little- too strongly; no doubt Harringtons approach doesn't apply to _literally everyone_. But one of the things science has been discovering lately is the extent to which 'genetic determinants' are profoundly influenced by environmental factors (especially in early life).

This is NOT a question of abuse in the obvious or conventional sense. I was never abused, but on the other hand i never felt totally a part of my own family, there was gap, a lack of total integration (in fact there developed a total isolation). In my case it would more accurate to speak of emotional neglect than 'abuse' (and that's what Harrington emphasizes). If you developed DP/R quite recently (or haven't had it for a long time) it may be that the abuse or emotional neglect was less serious or obvious. It might be something that seems quite small, even petty. But this is WORTH paying attention to.

I have certainly benefitted from Harris Harringtons method massively(i'm still going through has videos- about 1 every month, because ive found it so difficult to deal with the consequences of the the previous video.) *I am completely cured of DR *and _perhaps _of DP (that one is harder to keep track of) but i've certainly made massive progress i'm in the process of typing up all my old notebooks and writing my life story, which i hope will help to definitively get rid of DP.

I can appreciate what people say about Harringtons approach being more like a psychology study/text book than a recovery manual, but since im a student anyway and i have a certain interest in psychology i was able to get though the more 'text book' parts (and i took extensive notes). It may be too much to ask to expect to be able to recover from something like this without putting hard work in.

Maybe there are some who won't be helped at all by Harringtons methods, but im tending to the view that he has got the right ideas. Perhaps a lot of people are in denial, perhaps some people just haven't seen how it might apply to them yet, perhaps it really doesn't apply to some people. I think when i am fully out of this i will summarise in these forums what has worked for me and turn it into a step by step approach.

For a long time i wasn't READY to recover. DP/R is a way to cope with a very painful situation. If it's anything like my experience you WILL cry and probably scream on the way to recovery.

Codependent with an inferiority complex? Those aren't genetic! I truly suggest you look into the early life/family, interpersonal angle...

I can only say that after *20 years* of suffering (ive had it on and off since age 7) these ideas have finally beaten DP/R out of my life. All i had to do was:

1-have a massive cry, mourn for myself and my family 2- write up my story 3- get to the bottom of my relationship with my parents and confront them 
(gently) with what i thought was lacking from our relationship 4- work out how differently i relate to people at different times (lack of 'self-state constancy').

Off the top of my head those are the things that most directly have CURED ME (and are curing me) of DP.


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## society's parasite

= n said:


> I tend to agree with Barry B here, although he might have put it -a little- too strongly; no doubt Harringtons approach doesn't apply to _literally everyone_. But one of the things science has been discovering lately is the extent to which 'genetic determinants' are profoundly influenced by environmental factors (especially in early life).
> 
> This is NOT a question of abuse in the obvious or conventional sense. I was never abused, but on the other hand i never felt totally a part of my own family, there was gap, a lack of total integration (in fact there developed a total isolation). In my case it would more accurate to speak of emotional neglect than 'abuse' (and that's what Harrington emphasizes). If you developed DP/R quite recently (or haven't had it for a long time) it may be that the abuse or emotional neglect was less serious or obvious. It might be something that seems quite small, even petty. But this is WORTH paying attention to.
> 
> I have certainly benefitted from Harris Harringtons method massively(i'm still going through has videos- about 1 every month, because ive found it so difficult to deal with the consequences of the the previous video.) *I am completely cured of DR *and _perhaps _of DP (that one is harder to keep track of) but i've certainly made massive progress i'm in the process of typing up all my old notebooks and writing my life story, which i hope will help to definitively get rid of DP.
> 
> I can appreciate what people say about Harringtons approach being more like a psychology study/text book than a recovery manual, but since im a student anyway and i have a certain interest in psychology i was able to get though the more 'text book' parts (and i took extensive notes). It may be too much to ask to expect to be able to recover from something like this without putting hard work in.
> 
> Maybe there are some who won't be helped at all by Harringtons methods, but im tending to the view that he has got the right ideas. Perhaps a lot of people are in denial, perhaps some people just haven't seen how it might apply to them yet, perhaps it really doesn't apply to some people. I think when i am fully out of this i will summarise in these forums what has worked for me and turn it into a step by step approach.
> 
> For a long time i wasn't READY to recover. DP/R is a way to cope with a very painful situation. If it's anything like my experience you WILL cry and probably scream on the way to recovery.
> 
> Codependent with an inferiority complex? Those aren't genetic! I truly suggest you look into the early life/family, interpersonal angle...
> 
> I can only say that after *20 years* of suffering (ive had it on and off since age 7) these ideas have finally beaten DP/R out of my life. All i had to do was:
> 
> 1-have a massive cry, mourn for myself and my family 2- write up my story 3- get to the bottom of my relationship with my parents and confront them
> (gently) with what i thought was lacking from our relationship 4- work out how differently i relate to people at different times (lack of 'self-state constancy').
> 
> Off the top of my head those are the things that most directly have CURED ME (and are curing me) of DP.
> 
> It's the confronting parents' thing which can be harmful too. I've tried to confront my parents various times over the years. Gently and not so gently. The result is always the same: they don't want to hear about it, it is all my fault, they did nothing wrong; neglect is OK, abuse is OK,beatings are OK, overdemanding is OK. I am just a hopeless case forever and it'd be best if i weren't around anymore. I wonder if this has anything to do with the burning guilt i feel all the time, or that i am just a lazy fuck who should take responsibility. As far as the trauma goes, i agree; in my experience the trauma which caused DP was from a later date and not caused by parents.


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## kate_edwin

is it just me or does this sound like an ad........


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## kate_edwin

you were successful with those videos because yours wasn't trauma


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## = n

kate_edwin said:


> you were successful with those videos because yours wasn't trauma


I beg to disagree. Also, please note that none of the things i listed as most helping me are for sale. Actually it is possible to download the program illegally/non-commercially. Not saying i've done this, just saying...


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## S.Snake

kate_edwin said:


> Trauma is nnot new to the study of dp&#8230;&#8230;
> 
> if you have a trauma related dissociative disorder, yes writing can help, but the chance of one essay written without any guidance giving someone significant relief is kind of
> slim&#8230;


guys dont be negative just because it may not work for you it doesnt mean it cant work for others.


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## doritocakes

I've done this. I used to keep a diary. I've tried everything I can think of, all the common sense things, and nothing has worked. And mine was onset by emotional trauma, mostly bullying and my awful family. I don't think DP of my magnitude can be cured.


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## lauzdp

So many negative posts in this thread


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## ourworldsgreatest

Barry b said:


> Most that are experiencing the very odd sensation of DP are completely ignorant to the fact that this dissociative disorder has to do with some type of emotional abuse or trauma. It's not your fault because this information is essentially new to the study of the disorder. Every single one of you (and I mean every single one of you) experienced some emotional trauma from your parents or guardian whether you think so or not.


This statement is simply wrong. There are an infinite amount of things that can cause emotional trauma that have absolutley nothing to do with your parents. For me personally, I know for a fact that my dpdr is a result of continous obsessive thoughts from my OCD that eventually led to a downward existential crisis. If anything, the only thing that my parents contributed to this was the genetics to give me a predisposition to this type of disorder. I had an extremely well-balanced childhood and have always led a happy, optimistic life despite having pretty bad Pure-O for the last 6 years. I don't believe I had any emotional trauma whatsoever up to this point, simply the anxiety that comes along with the OCD. Not until a certain obsessive thought got stuck in my head did it lead to the emotional trauma and eventually the DPDR. So I think it's kinda ridiculous how Harris claims that every single person must have had childhood issues with their parent's when literally anythintg could have caused the emotional damage which eventually led to an individual's DPDR.


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## howmuchforhappy

I don't understand.. So what you're trying to say is that because you have recognized that you were neglected by your parents in some way you are now free of panic attacks and recovering from DP? I've had it pretty rough growing up and I know my parents mistreated me. Doesn't make me feel any better just by knowing all the harm they've done. Just saying, it takes more then to know you've been neglected then to get over the fact. I semi agree with you because one may develop this disorder due to issues with their parents. However, just realizing the neglect they've endured doesn't cure anything, one needs to accept and get over what they've been through which may take a lot of time. Also, work out any issues with their parents to heal from such things. Promising instant relief doesn't seem fair. That's not the way it works. Also, claiming that everyone with DP feels the way they do because of parent issues just isn't correct.


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## Guest

Fearless said:


> until you understand and realize what is happening to you, yes it usually takes time. but it's NOT the actual process of recovery that takes time, it's finding the key.


Well, that's the trick, isn't it!
Untill we reach our own understanding, where it's put to us in a certain way and it "clicks," then things can remain confused and confusing. It maybe the most significant thing of all.
Sometimes we can hear or read the same thing many times, then it's put to us in the right way at the right time for us and it we "get it", but getting to that point may in fact be the hard part.
We can be lost in our mindscape, not knowing what to trust, and we can't see the wood for the trees.
I agree with you most of the time Fearless, but you can be impatient with people! When something becomes clear to us, we can easily forget how confusing it was for us at the time.


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## Midnight

Fearless said:


> well, it's a hard debate and both sides are right in a way.
> 
> I say, recovering from DP takes about a few hours only or only minutes, but until you understand and realize what is happening to you, yes it usually takes time. but it's NOT the actual process of recovery that takes time, it's finding the key.


As with almost every so called recovery thread on here, you haven't actually EXPLAINED what to DO. Please do so.


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## Midnight

Fearless said:


> you have to understand why you feel this way. dysfunctional family, (childhood) emotional abuse, disorganized attachment, emotional repression, tendency to dissociate when faced with stress, codependency, belief of being worthless, perfectionism.
> 
> as long as you don't understand how these puzzles make a full picture, how the proccess happens, and therefore understand WHAT you feel and WHY, I can tell you that the solution is emotional expression, you probably will only experience moments of repersonalization, but not recovery.
> 
> http://depersonaliza...and-not-others/
> 
> You also have to understand what is emotional abuse and why and how it is not only a painful thing to experience, but how it causes the habit of dissociation.
> 
> You also have to understand why you are emotionally dependent. Why you are a people-pleaser. etc..


I haven't been through that much shit. I was never abused from what I can recall. I am a people pleaser I suppose...

Thing is, this theory you have is based on the premise that everyone who experiences depersonalization has been through intense emotional trauma.

For me personally, I have never been through war, I've never been raped, I've never been beaten up by my parents or random people. I was never properly bullied in school. Teased maybe but not bullied.

So does this still apply to me? I'm not so sure.

The thing is, I know there is a lot of emotion under the layer of dissociation but I can't seem to access it, so I want to agree with what you are saying but understanding it doesn't seem to actually help.


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## Guest

Everything you are saying about disorganised attachment style, people pleasing, not being able to say no, perfectionism... EVERYTHING and I mean everything you mentioned is a massive part of who I am today. And yes, I do blame my childhood abuse for how I've turned out. But, I have written down my story loads of times to psychiatrists, on forums, to myself, to my parents! I have got it all out there. I fought back at my parents verbally with my whole history of what they did to me, I definitely got it out there. I can't possibly get more out of me quite honestly, and yet I still have all those bad traits you mentioned. So how do I rid myself of these traits? Expressing myself has not led me very far, I still get DP and panic attacks, I still am a clingy, overly-friendly fuck... I don't know what to do. I can't afford Harris Harrington's program. What did you do Fearless? Can you name the specific therapy that helped this?


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## Guest

Emotional processing is a tricky thing because there are subtle mechanisms at work, but I've had alot of success with it lately so this is what I know at this point:

In my experience there is always a real world cause for the emotional distress. This might sound obvious, but when we are dissociated we can become very divorced from ourselves and our personal history, so we can be left with what I call floating pain, the cause of which maybe lost to us, which can lead to abstract and morbid theorising, but the reasons are usually right under our noses and known to us, and the pain is always right there: it's that place we make a habit of avoiding.
I don't think you can process without linking it to the real-world causes. You can sit with the pain to find the cause, or look to an obvious cause to find the pain, or you can look at some problem just in your daily life and start from there, as an issue will lie behind a inhibition or difficulty we have today. So that's the first thing.

When it comes to actually processing painful events in our lives, we tend to block it. We have done so for so long it has become automatic. Essentially it's a struggle between how we think we "should" be feeling and how we really feel. We don't want to feel a certain way and yet we do, so we struggle with ourself. I find that the pain itself is quite "pure," most of the distress comes from the struggle. We try to experience it but really we are attacking it, we only wish to experience it on our terms, without feeling vulnerable, but this blocks processing. What we have to do is allow ourselves to be completely vulnerable to it; to let ourselves experience it completely "unarmed." This can be scary which is why we tend to avoid it. We might feel completely vulnerable when thinking of a person or event. We don't wish to feel that way, but if that is how we feel then that is what's there to work with, an feel it we must. For processing to take place we must be completely open, and that can feel vulnerable, so we must allow ourselves to feel vulnerable to be open. You might just practice this feeling of being open/vulnerable for awhile to get the hang of it before moving to specific issues. This detail has been key to me, and caused many of my old issues to start falling like dominoes.

Finally, when doing this, keep a sense of the here and now. This needn't be constant, but become aware of your present reality at intervals to remind yourself that you are dealing with memories and that's all they are. This seems to be important in processing in order to place things into their proper time and place, and into perspective.

So I hope this is helpful.


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## Midnight

very interesting. thanks.

Has this helped you alot then?


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## Guest

Vortimi said:


> I understand what you are saying. Yesterday I gone further with my usual "I'm a people pleaser, because my mother is a psycho control freak, who is hysterical when I'm saying no to her in any situation." When I gone further, I understood, that I'm afraid to say no to people, because I feel responsible of their reaction, that their anger is my fault. And I'm afraid of their anger, because violence makes me feel powerless, because my mother is very aggressive, dominant person, who taught me, that who is more angry and aggressive holds more power. And I feel that if someones is aggressive towards me, then he has the power and is in control. I don't even see a possibility of saying no to the aggression, because my mother is going nuts when I'm saying no to her. And I'm afraid that other people will react on my "no" the same way she does.


Yeah, this is the thing, our views of people are completely warped, just because we grew up with people acting a certain way to the extreme, we believe other will too because it's all we've been used to.


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## Midnight

Fearless said:


> you have no idea how close you are to the truth. it helped me immensely.


I've done this but it doesn't help long term and my neighbours might knock on the door to see if im ok. It's hard to scream and shout


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## Midnight

I'm more predisposed to not believing the fact that you think you have the answer that no one else has figured out yet. Like with any other of the hundreds of theories about depersonalization, you don't have any proof.


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## Midnight

Fearless said:


> then don't pay attention to me. it's that simple. you talk like I owe you something. I don't.
> 
> anyway I didn't say I figured this out, I have no idea what you're talking about. I just found the right answer and understood it.


I think you owe everyone here something if you say this works. Everyone should hear about it no?

I'm not trying to piss you off or something I'm just asking - what exactly are you suggesting here, that I, for example, should lock myself into a room and hit pillows for hours until I get rid of all my rage? Cry for as long as possible? A precise explanation is needed. That's all I asked.


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## Midnight

Ok so what you are saying is that people should watch Harris Harringtons program? Essentially..


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## Midnight

I've just watched 4 of his videos in a row (in the program) It's interesting stuff and I like the guy but again, it doesn't seem to apply to me. My parents were good to me for the vast majority of my childhood. He's talking alot about alcoholism etc... well I don't have alcoholic parents.

I didn't experience DP, then I meditated hardcore and suddenly I developed it. I don't think his advice applies to everyone as you can probably see, but thanks for the suggestion.


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## Midnight

Well I had was self-loathing, anxious and miserable but I definitely don't remember anything traumatic happening to me. My Mother was anxious and so was her Mother so perhaps there is a pattern there but that's grasping at straws really. I was a pretty lucky kid to be honest.

I honestly can't remember anything truly horrific happening, then again my sense of a personal history has pretty much disappeared because I'm so dissociated. Either meditation did it to me or the meditation uncovered something that had previously been covered. Dunno.

Either way, this ain't one size fit's all as you are suggesting.


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## Midnight

Bozza said:


> "Well I had was self-loathing, anxious and miserable". Dont you think that shows you had emotional issues my friend? I believe "emotional trauma" can be something very subtle and personal to one's perspective.
> 
> Depression, Anxiety and DPD does not come out of nowhere.
> 
> Together we can find solutions, and nobody better than ourselves, whom have DPD, to find the answers about it.


I had emotional issues certainly I just don't think I can put my parents up there as most of the cause. I think I hated myself because of my own perfectionist nature... I don't know why else.

The thing is I can no longer remember much about my past... it feels like it never happened. So what the hell am I supposed to do to try and process those memories of trauma?


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## Midnight

Fearless said:


> typical. unwanted perfectionism is the result of emotional abuse. and hating yourself for self-sabotage also. you can keep on denying it and believe that your DP has nothing to do with emotional abuse. you can throw a PM to me one year later, when you'll be still DPd if you stick to this.


Why are you so confrontational? You make it sound like I WANT to be depersonalized when clearly I don't.

I can't remember emotional abuse happening to me, so what the hell am I supposed to do? If you'd actually suggest something instead of repeatedly saying that you have the answer but then never actually explaining in detail what you mean.. then maybe I wouldn't have to keep responding.


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## Midnight

I just wish you'd explain what you mean by 'emotional expression'. Can you please tell me exactly what you mean by that? That's all I'm asking. Thank you.


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## wise

Fearless said:


> yes that was the turning point to me. plus watching a lot of videos from a certain psychiatrists. A very famous one.
> 
> I always "knew" somehow that my traumatic childhood, dysfunctional family and repressed emotions are what behind DP, also knew that people-pleasing had something to do with it, but that program explained me the HOW and WHY.
> 
> It basically confirmed things I previiously believed, or "felt like true", and explained how they are connected and how they resulted in DP.
> 
> You have to ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND why you are feeling this way. If you don't understand it first, it's useless that I tell you to "express your emotions".
> 
> http://depersonaliza...and-not-others/
> 
> getting these knowledge made me look at DP from a WHOLE different perspective.


That is an informative link. For everyone on here that says they can't afford the Harrington program, he pretty much outlines the major important things about dp on his website so unless you want to listen to 10 hours of nitty gritty details, you don't even really need to purchase the program to recover. He really does approach how to tackle dp from many different angles that it's bound to offer some relief.


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## wise

Fearless said:


> emotional expression is just that, emotional expression. it is something DPd people don't and can't do, because they are handicapped emotionally. but this can be learned by "unlearning" the habit of dissociation.
> 
> this is what those materials I posted on this site would explain to you, but you're too lazy to actually study them. you're still looking for the quick solution, and wanting ME to tell you 2 or 3 quick magic tip so you can be cured without putting in ANY work.
> 
> it will not happen.


Fearless is basically saying that people with chronic dp are 'emotionally handicapped' because essentially we all have Stockholm Syndrome and are in denial about the abuse we've endured. Unprocessed emotions, which Harrington says are the root cause of dp, are basically emotions that you felt but didn't allow yourself to experience fully because they weren't 'allowable', like anger, sexual feelings, happiness, etc because expressing them threatened your survival in some way. The mindf*ck of it all is that it's subtle abuse that seems to be the root cause of dp because it provoked emotions that you inevitably dismissed because you said to yourself, (at best) I don't want to bring this up and be ridiculed for being petty and sensitive and at worst, you keep your feelings bottled up because being open about them could threaten your survival somehow. I know growing up I was not allowed to be too 'expressive' and even as an adult I've had to endure alot of subtle belittling. The key to saving your life is to no longer engage with those that provoke turmoil within you and if you do to stand up for yourself. We don't have the luxury to 'pick our battles', we have to fight every battle.


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## Midnight

wise said:


> That is an informative link. For everyone on here that says they can't afford the Harrington program, he pretty much outlines the major important things about dp on his website so unless you want to listen to 10 hours of nitty gritty details, you don't even really need to purchase the program to recover. He really does approach how to tackle dp from many different angles that it's bound to offer some relief.


I've been following it quite closely, taking alot of what he says into account and practicing the journalling thing in particular. It's not changing anything at all yet.... just thought I'd ask how your doing with it?


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## wise

Midnight said:


> I've been following it quite closely, taking alot of what he says into account and practicing the journalling thing in particular. It's not changing anything at all yet.... just thought I'd ask how your doing with it?


Deconditioning yourself out of dp doesn't happen overnight, but I think that having knowledge of what it is and where it comes from means that you are at least halfway cured, the other half is the hard work Fearless talked about, you really need a dramatic overhaul of how you treat yourself and how you allow the world to treat you. It boils down to standing up for your rights as a human being because if you don't, then you just don't feel human anymore, you don't even feel like you exist. Harrington opened my eyes about how dysfunctional family systems keep you enmeshed and not putting your needs first and that was something I had NO idea was having such a detrimental effect on my psyche. I have faith now that keeping emotionally healthy people in my life and being in a pleasant environment will make my recovery permanent.


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## wise

Fearless said:


> "doesn't matter what I go through, how I get hurt, I shouldn't cry, shouldn't be sad, shouldn't express anger." (swallowing tears and rage)
> 
> "doesn't matter what I achieve, it's still not enough" (lack of self-worth, perfectionism)
> 
> of course, these beliefs are NOT CONSCIOUS. if they'd be, you'd not have DP at all. but these are operating in you.


This I agree is the main issue. And often times people who sense how hard we are on ourselves will take advantage of that by mirroring it (being extra hurtful to us, belittling our achievements) essentially treating us how we treat ourselves, if given the opportunity, taking pride in the fact that they've fed into our insecurities. I think that people are just conditioned to notice weakness and take advantage of it because of the competitive world we live in. Our inner dialogue is the driving force behind how well adjusted our psyche is, it can quite literally make you or break you. *Allowing anyone the power to make or break you is such a precarious position to put yourself in but it's inevitable given that alot of us are perfectionists and people pleasers.* We may mean well but it's still a recipe for disaster, dp.


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## wise

People don't realize how much of a downward spiral being so harsh on yourself puts you on..The harsher you are on yourself, the more dped you feel, and the less you accomplish because you feel incapacitated and then you hate yourself even more..Fearless what specific psychologist were you referring to in your previous post, Freud?


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## Midnight

Fearless said:


> hope it make sense to you


It makes sense undoubtedly, but what would you suggest to someone like me who can't find any thoughts of abuse in early life? I'm trying to process things that I can't even remember


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## peanut butter

So basically, are people with Lyme's induced DP capable of breaking the illusion?
I'm not asking for myself, but if one's DP is from another disease, is it possible to cure?


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## wise

Fearless said:


> yes that was the turning point to me. plus watching a lot of videos from a certain psychiatrists. A very famous one.


Were the links you posted the psychiatrists you are referring to?


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## wise

Fearless said:


> first of all, you have to understand what emotional abuse means. So you know what to look for. EDIT: You probably remember these things, you just never thought that they can be the cause of your DP.
> 
> People with DP went through strong, but unrecognizable forms of abuse. You shouldn't look for things like your father beated you, or shouted at you "you're WORTHLESS, you're a NOBODY, you're a PIECE OF SHIT". No. If that'd happen, you WOULDN'T HAVE DP, because the abuse would be OBVIOUS, you'd know what you feel and you'd know why.
> 
> Emotional abuse behind DP is typically emotional neglecting, emotional manipulation (making you BELIEVE that you are worthless, but NOT DIRECTLYm just SUGGESTING), emotional blackmailing, etc..
> 
> People with DP usually are in DENIAL about their abuse. Because they were not just abused, but actually made believe that what's been done to them is NORMAL.
> 
> That's what you look for, things you thought are NORMAL, but maybe weren't. Because someone who lived in a dysfunctional family and an emotionally abusive environment, HAS NO IDEA what normal actually means. What's normal to them is probably anything but normal.


Personally I knew that I wasn't being treated in an optimal way but was too fearful of setting out on my own the minute I turned 18 because all the negative things I was fed severely compromised my coping ability to the point where I didn't want to take any risks. I guess not defending myself-because that would have rocked the boat and caused total chaos- kept on adding to all my 'unprocessed emotions'.


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## wise

Fearless said:


> I can give you links but he's talking in Hungarian


Can you let us know some of his important points?


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## wise

Fearless said:


> absolutely. AND, DP is usually caused by SETTLED, CONSTANT but NOT REALLY DRAMATIC emotional abuse. It's not caused by your mother or father screaming and shouting at you all day.


I agree, it's very subtle and insidious abuse. It's being neglected and made to feel irrelevant or treated like someone who doesn't deserve respect.


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## peanut butter

Fearless said:


> exactly. but if you don't purchase it, MAKE SURE you read the SHIT out of those articles and do some research online for the most important terms. those articles CAN make you understand it, Harrington doesn't hide anything from free public, but he understands that these things can take time and need long explanation in order to "click in".


"if you don't purchase it"
So are you saying that that program is actually something else than money fishing?


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## broken3309

I was abused and experienced dp since I was little and still have it, becoming constant after marijuana.

What about for people who experience it from medication withdrawal?


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## tnasty2

This is the best thread within this whole website. I couldn't stand living the way I was and knew that symptoms of this severity are not just randomly produced from nothing. I needed to understand why I had this it killed me not too. Finally I have a great understanding as to why dp is so long lasting and powerful. Because the abuse we have gone through was probably long lasting and had a very powerful affect on our view of interpersonal relationships. Thanks a lot fearless your posts have been the most helpful thing for me.


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## peanut butter

Fearless said:


> that's what I'm talking about basically for 2 months
> 
> just because something is digital and sold on the internet, it doesn't mean it's a scam. Harringont's stuff is VERY valuable.But iIf you think you just buy it, watch it 2 times and expecting to be cured,* don't even waste your money.*
> 
> This is a deep stuff and sounds very difficult at first, you'll need to watch several times to understand what is going on with you.


I see. While <90% of this site's population do think it's a scam the site has some nice points though.

E: Also how he's marketing his site. Watch these and be cured. Sounds legit, eh.


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## MrCallaghan

Hey

Seeking some advice on this and some confirmation.
based in the information you provide, you claim that i must have been abused somehow by my parents, this could be true in some way, but i believe it is a little more complex.
My parents are divorced and they have been since i was 2 years old, yet it never 'seemed' to bother me that much. i am 19 years old now, soon 20.
my dad lives in england, and i live with my mom in denmark. i love my mom and she loves me, there has never ever been any major problems, she does not drink or put emotianal stress on me, not for what i can recall.
however it has been more that 2 years since i have seen my father, i talk with him every month and we have a really good relationship, better than ever before.
can anyone relate to this? my father has been involved in some criminal activity according to my mom, yet i never suffered the experience of this, only the knowledge.
i dont feel like this is the issue, however i will not exclude it.

please help, the DR and DP is really tough to deal with


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## Midnight

MrCallaghan said:


> Hey
> 
> Seeking some advice on this and some confirmation.
> based in the information you provide, you claim that i must have been abused somehow by my parents, this could be true in some way, but i believe it is a little more complex.
> My parents are divorced and they have been since i was 2 years old, yet it never 'seemed' to bother me that much. i am 19 years old now, soon 20.
> my dad lives in england, and i live with my mom in denmark. i love my mom and she loves me, there has never ever been any major problems, she does not drink or put emotianal stress on me, not for what i can recall.
> however it has been more that 2 years since i have seen my father, i talk with him every month and we have a really good relationship, better than ever before.
> can anyone relate to this? my father has been involved in some criminal activity according to my mom, yet i never suffered the experience of this, only the knowledge.
> i dont feel like this is the issue, however i will not exclude it.
> 
> please help, the DR and DP is really tough to deal with


Are you saying that you don't understand how emotional 'trauma' can be the root of DP/DR because you don't think you had emotional trauma? That's what I've been saying for a while because I can't remember anything of the sort in early childhood. I certainly received some emotional abuse in my teen years in school, as did most people at school, but it wasn't severe and I got DP/DR at age 19, over a year after I left school.

Something doesn't add up here. Fearless doesn't seem to want to budge on the issue and is claiming what he is talking about is the only solution to DP/DR. I think personally there can be a myriad of issues that can put someone in this state.


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## Midnight

Vortimi that sounds very nasty, sorry to hear about all that, you will pull through.

I'd like to say however to anyone reading this who is trying to look for family issues that don't exist - don't. I just confronted my parents about it and it was a waste of time. Not everyone who has DP suffered emotional abuse.
just my 2c


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## Midnight

Vortimi said:


> Thanks, Midnight. I don't want to have children ever, I don't want to harm them like my mother harmed me, and since abuse is something that runs deep in my family, there is huge possibility for that. Did you check yourself for Lyme disease already?


yeah got my blood taken a couple of hours ago.

Thing is that you won't necessarily harm your children just because of your mothers treatment, if anything that should spur you on to raise them well!

Best of luck x


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## peanut butter

So Fearless, does existential crisis has some relation to DP in your opinion?
Like how in DP you are not satisfied with your life?


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## inferentialpolice

I wanted to second Fearless' statements regarding the belief that "adverse life events" are the etiology of Dissociative Disorders, including Depersonalization/Derealization Disorders. I believe he is also correct that the adverse events can be quite subtle forms of invalidation of self, and that because of the sometimes subtle agency which are not apparent to a child with no other reference, denial is high out there. I've heard of plenty of cases of depersonalization in those claiming "idyllic" childhoods only to realize in the course of therapy that there were subtle invalidators in their upbringing.

I wanted to add to Fearless' statements to venture the proposition that DP/DR exists along a spectrum of dissociative disorders, and that many diagnosed with depersonalization disorder may in fact have a more severe form, but have not been assessed for these more severe variants. (the book Stranger in the Mirror: Dissociation, the Hidden Epidemic, and its web site www.strangerinthemirror.com are good resources, and speaks to the additional symptoms of memory and time gaps, identify conflicts, etc, all of which like depersonalization symptoms can follow from invalidating experiences.)


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## wise

Fearless said:


> yes, absolutely. I wrote this down already.
> 
> to keep it short it's like this:
> 
> you have a great baggage repressed emotions in you (emotions you dissociated from), which manifests in physical symptoms. when the "repressed emotions" hit a certain treshold, you are there with a HUGE baggage of "floating" feelings (feelings which are there, but you deined, dissociated, repressed, not faced, etc..= not resolved), which you don't know the reason for. because of this, you start to believe that something terrible is happenning to you, since you don't understand your own feelings. and since you believe you are in danger, you naturally start to "find the threat".
> 
> and since you don't see nothing threatening, doctor's say you're healthy, you realize you don't have tumour, etc.. and no illness, but you still believe you're in danger (and fear that you're dying), your mind starts to grab existential "explanations". this is why they are so irrational and so agressive thoughts. because they not the real reason, they're just "ideas", which pop up.
> 
> they are phantom fears, not real reason.


I think dp is like hysteria of yesteryear, a psychosomatic illness that results from suppressed emotions combined with ocd


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## peanut butter

wise said:


> I think dp is like hysteria of yesteryear, a psychosomatic illness that results from suppressed emotions combined with ocd


When you put it that way it sounds fucking reasonable.
In my opinion you can't have DP without OCD but OCD without DP is possible.

wise: Have you recovered?


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## Guest

This makes so much sense.

I am married and I feel way too attached to my husband. I'm fearful when he's not around, but at the same time I can't get 100% comfortable with him. It's like there's always something suppressed and I have to say that I have blurted out to him a few times "I think we need to split up!" And I am confused that I feel so strongly about it, but I also kind of somehow understand it. There is this discomfort in my relationship bubbling under the surface all the time. I'm afraid to leave him but that just makes me hear the bubbling even more, if you know what I mean.

He used to cheat but he is the sweetest guy ever now and I don't see why I feel the way I feel. I suppose it is my lack of independence, having become so enmeshed. I don't even know if it would be salvageable if I were to leave. He was basically my world since I was 16. That's a generous amount of time for attachment issues to develop, especially as I felt I couldn't go home because of my parents so I needed him.

I try to sweep us under the rug all the time, try and believe desperately that we are fine and that we just have a few things to work on, but the thing I need more than anything is distance from him, and lots of it.

I wouldn't doubt for a second that it has something to do with my DP/agoraphobia/compulsions/depression and my recent nervous breakdown.

I lost me, somewhere in this process.
You guys are right.


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## Guest

Fearless said:


> You have to know that emotionally dependent people have a very important habit: they are UNABLE to see the negative traits of their "rescuer". I say rescuer because when you were 16, you probably wasn't a healthy and emotionall stable person (due to emotional abuse, dysfunctional family, or just the fact that you were 16. nobody is really stable at that age), and you needed someone to "save" you.
> 
> And that's because, if they'd allow themselves to see that let's say that person is NOT really that perfect mate, that'd include the conclusion that they either CONSCIOUSLY decide to stay in a dysfunctional relationship (how could you have a good relationship when the other is cheating), which is basically spitting in your own face, or they should leave the relationship, and that'd make it NECCESSARY to face that they feel TERRIBLE alone.
> 
> Because there is a chance that at 16, it was easier to find someone who lessens your pain, than to actually face and resolve your pain.
> 
> I guess I don't have to tell why you got DP. when you started to realize that there is a POSSIBILITY that you should break up, the repressed old pain and fear of being alone started to come up, and it was too much. so you dissociated.
> 
> (please don't take my post as disrespectful, I have good intentions)
> 
> this is why I say: *FACE YOUR FEARS! *because if you try to run away, they ruin your life.


Oh no I totally agree with everything you've said!! Sometimes I think I need a dose of reality. He is unintentionally taking away the strength that I have and I should really have ended it long ago when the cheating happened, but I guess that's what you get for giving people too many chances - you only end up hurting yourself.
My mind is too overwhelmed because it has to carry around the thought of "Maybe I should really leave him" everywhere, and never speak about it because of fear of the consequences (being alone in the big wide world!). It's too much pressure, I wouldn't be surprised if it leads me to disassociate.


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## mike112233

Haha well shit my moms been a alcoholic since i can remember, my friend died right in front of me, so did my bestfriends dog who i was walking home with. list could go on and on i guess i'm fucked for recovery.


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## wise

mmrrlla said:


> When you put it that way it sounds fucking reasonable.
> In my opinion you can't have DP without OCD but OCD without DP is possible.
> 
> wise: Have you recovered?


I don't think there is such a thing as recovery, only coping. Once you're body has chosen dp as a defense mechanism, it will revert to it whenever life gets overwhelming or what your psyche perceives as such.You really do have to work on your personal issues constantly to avoid the grip of dp. I do try and avoid triggers as much as I can.


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## wise

Susto said:


> reading this kind of stuff really makes me upset... that would mean I'd have to live the rest of my life avoiding triggers, running from basically everything... and I know I've been avoiding shit my whole life, avoiding life itself, this must stop. I don't want ways to cope, I wanna learn how to overcome this fuck, and that's what this topic is about anyway isn't it!?!!!?
> 
> sorry if this is offensive but it really pisses me off whenever I read that I must find ways to cope cause recovery isn't possible


Calm down. Recovery is a slow process that involves undoing all the past damage and creating boundaries to avoid any future damage. I hate when people say face your fears 24-7 in order to conquer dp, it's not that simple! And the more hard you are on yourself, the worse it makes you feel so they key is to give yourself plenty of time and space. You're not making excuses, you are taking things little by little. You really can't face anything when you feel like you're floating and not in control. You need to get a grip before you can face what you've avoided and that is going to involve a bit of self analysis. Personally I've realized that I had alot of fairweather shallow friends/toxic narcissistic family so not only did I not have the social support I needed to feel content in life I also worried about how people perceived me all the time.I learned to be critical of myself and others not knowing how detrimental it was, I also wasn't immersing myself in what I loved as far as career was concerned because I was very concerned with how 'successful' I appeared to people. When things in your life are very misaligned, dp hits hard and stops you in your tracks in order to make you aware of this, but it's up to you to find the way out. Expressing yourself and feeling heard and seen is one aspect. Another is standing up for yourself and not allowing yourself to be mistreated. The experience of self boils down to those two things.


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## peanut butter

wise said:


> I don't think there is such a thing as recovery, only coping. Once you're body has chosen dp as a defense mechanism, it will revert to it whenever life gets overwhelming or what your psyche perceives as such.You really do have to work on your personal issues constantly to avoid the grip of dp. I do try and avoid triggers as much as I can.


That sounds fucking depressing.


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## wise

Fearless said:


> haha. I tell you a secret. it's not your body who is choosing DP, it's you.
> 
> no wonder you aren't recovered. you're making excuses.


I meant once one's psyche chooses dp as a crutch to get by, it will be a standby. I'm not making excuses I'm being realistic. To delve into the depths of your psyche and figure out what went wrong and fix it is a lifetime journey so it's not about making excuses to not do the hard work. Humans are complex! But I'm sure that once you arm yourself with enough knowledge that an aggressive approach to keeping dp would work.


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## Guest

Fearless you're such a guru with this and you're so opinionated! lol. It's good though, might intimidate some people but I think so many of us on this forum love to be the victim of DP because its easier and it's what we're used to, but you're right in that we can't get better sitting on our asses waiting for a cure to come by. Is there a cure? Yes - we are it. We are the illness and we are the cure, we just need to pick one route, and the difficult one is the one that reaps all the benefits and will ultimately turn our lives around.

It's hard to be strong, getting up and going on when you're wounded, knowing that you have to do it in order to survive... But it's essential really, otherwise the unnecessary suffering will never cease and you will just end up not wanting to live, like I found.

We really need to face ourselves, break through some major barriers and find out who we really are and why we are in the position we are in, before we can expect to move forward, because without doing so, our efforts are fruitless.


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## wise

= n said:


> 4- work out how differently i relate to people at different times (lack of 'self-state constancy').
> 
> Off the top of my head those are the things that most directly have CURED ME (and are curing me) of DP.


Can you talk about this more?


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## peanut butter

I must admit of being skeptical to this theory causing DP, but the more I read into psychology the more convincing it feels. I don't see why this would not be true.


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## konstantine02

Fearless, I applaud you. This thread is amazing. Within the last 30 minutes of reading your posts/comments, I started writing down some thoughts/feelings that were coming up, and I just came up with a bunch more stuff that has been hiding deep within myself. Tomorrow I have a therapy appointment (I have been doing trauma therapy) and I am going to bring these thoughts in to decipher some more of what is going on. I feel like a couple of pieces just came together unexpectedly.

I recovered from DP four years ago, but never fully addressed all the emotional trauma. I was in therapy and then stopped as soon as the DP went away. Bad idea. Probably should have continued and really got to the root of everything. Now I'm working from the ground up.


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## Midnight

konstantine02 said:


> Fearless, I applaud you. This thread is amazing. Within the last 30 minutes of reading your posts/comments, I started writing down some thoughts/feelings that were coming up, and I just came up with a bunch more stuff that has been hiding deep within myself. Tomorrow I have a therapy appointment (I have been doing trauma therapy) and I am going to bring these thoughts in to decipher some more of what is going on. I feel like a couple of pieces just came together unexpectedly.
> 
> I recovered from DP four years ago, but never fully addressed all the emotional trauma. I was in therapy and then stopped as soon as the DP went away. Bad idea. Probably should have continued and really got to the root of everything. Now I'm working from the ground up.


So you are consciously aware of the fact that you have experienced trauma?

I'm still trying to investigate myself and my past as Fearless is suggesting, but I keep coming up with nothing except a few painful interpersonal relationships and a lot of self-loathing. Nothings really helping.


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## Guest

Midnight said:


> So you are consciously aware of the fact that you have experienced trauma?
> 
> I'm still trying to investigate myself and my past as Fearless is suggesting, but I keep coming up with nothing except a few painful interpersonal relationships and a lot of self-loathing. Nothings really helping.


Self-loathing in itself can lead to DP. If you constantly invalidate yourself, you break yourSELF down. If you feel you are worthless, mentally you withdraw and "quit" at life because you don't feel worthy enough or good enough for your own high expectations of yourself. Comparing yourself to others, giving yourself expectations to live up to and false assumptions that make you believe you always need to be more than you are can really erode you.
Maybe you need to be kinder to yourself. You are not going to recover from DP if you treat yourself badly. Imagine if you were enough, exactly how you are now, you are enough for yourself. There is nothing stopping you from believing that you simply are enough. And from there, everything grows.


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## konstantine02

Midnight said:


> So you are consciously aware of the fact that you have experienced trauma?
> 
> I'm still trying to investigate myself and my past as Fearless is suggesting, but I keep coming up with nothing except a few painful interpersonal relationships and a lot of self-loathing. Nothings really helping.


I am consciously aware of trauma I've had...thanks to research and therapy. However...I have not reached the point of knowing what my triggers all are and how it effects me...until I get DPed and have to get myself out. That's what I'm hoping to do this time around so it doesn't come back again.


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## peanut butter

I'm wondering if it's typical to feel bad about your past while on Total Integration Method. I mean after learning about dysfunctional families and emotional abuse I realize that my childhood was not that great. It is like a curtain was put to hide all the problems of the past, and now that I remember and realize those it feels fucking awful. I can't forget my past anymore and I must deal with these problems.


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## missjess

Susto

I have seen that article and done 1 session with the guy he wasent very good lol and his voice pissed me off

It's not only about facing repressed pains it's about getting to know yourself again and developing emotional maturity if you continue to shame yourself then u won't get very far and if you can't get ur emotions to come out straight away then just pay attention to ur feelings and begin to state them and say how u feel eventually u and ur emotions will see it is now safe to come out


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## JackDanielß

I'm not sure if this is already posted and frankly don't care, but it's fucking important

http://discussingdissociation.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/20-signs-of-unresolved-trauma/

It's a blog made by trauma therapist.

See how that list includes things like: ego states, dissociation, anxiety, Disorganized attachment patterns, co-narcissism etc.

FUCKING READ IT.


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## peanut butter

I remember the first time I experienced DP and panic attacks for months. Even now when I try to recall those times I get very anxious and fearful. I must say I think those times left me with trauma. How do I deal with the trauma that experiencing panic attacks at the time left me?


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## peanut butter

Fearless said:


> I'm not sure if I understand your question, but panic attack is not the trauma.


I mean that when I got DP and panic attacks for the first time, I was fucking scared every day. It took me 4 months to calm myself.

So every now and then when I remember the times when I got DP and panic attacks, it makes me anxious and I start to fear something, like I could still remember exactly how horrified I was at the time and it makes me sad as well.
How do I make the memory not so threatening?


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## peanut butter

I see, so apparently I still hold those believes that something was and is wrong with me.


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## peanut butter

Fearless said:


> please read nothingworks.weebly.com
> 
> I suggest you to start the work because life is too good to spend it on DP.


Thanks, might as well read again. I just need to resolve things with my parents as well, I know they are one of the reason. It's so hard to be independent because they still treat me as a child, but hey, it's my life I was given not theirs. If only they knew it.

I just recently had a fight with my father and god it feels good afterward for expressing my true feelings.

If I only knew how to release the same amount of emotion without always fighting.


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## peanut butter

Possible. Considering I've been doing it for many years then I don't know how to be honest and what to do.


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## peanut butter

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22423434

I don't get it, I still experience that there is a cut between the time before DP and now ever since I experienced my first panic attack. Does this suggest that it's a trauma or does it mean also my past trauma? Stupid question I know.


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## peanut butter

Fearless, does also this site seem like a legit site for studying ? http://www.joy2meu.com/Codependence1.html

it has also text for example on inner child, personal boundaries and such Harris has also talked about. It just seems just too spiritual.


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