# Cure for my derealization?



## Luciiz (Oct 15, 2008)

Well I don't want to make a massive post, so here's the gist of my story

- Did salvia about the beginning of September, have had derealization (not depersonalization) ever since, and don't know why. This happened straight away and has barely stopped in intensity.

- Went to doctors, told her about it - she gave me a confused look and told me to get some blood tests done. Today I find out there's nothing wrong with my blood.

- Then I just found this article literally an hour ago, and I'm really hoping this could be cured?:

"It is now well established that the activation of KORs induces a large number of behavioral effects that include analgesia, sedation, and perceptual distortions. In the past, studies on the precise role of KORs in humans were hampered by the lack of selective agonists, although studies with compounds such as cyclazocine and ketocyclazocine suggested that KOR agonists were psychotomimetic (28). More recently, human studies with the highly selective KOR agonist enadoline (42) *indicated that KOR activation induced visual distortions, feelings of unreality, and depersonalization. *These effects of enadoline are reminiscent of those previously reported for *Salvinorin A* (2, 3). Taken together, these results suggest that the KOR/dynorphinergic system functions to modulate human perception and cognition, as might be inferred from detailed anatomical studies of dynorphin peptide distribution studies (43?45).

One of the implications of these results is that KORs or KOR signaling may also be important in the pathogenesis of diseases characterized by perceptual distortions. The most obvious diseases implicated are schizophrenia, dementia, and bipolar disorders, because all are characterized by hallucinations and delusions. Prior studies evaluating KORs in schizophrenia have yielded conflicting results (46?48), whereas one study examining affective disorder was negative (47). On the other hand, two well-controlled studies have demonstrated an up-regulation of KORs in Alzheimer's disease (49, 50), whereas MORs and DORs were down-regulated (50) or unchanged (49).

In conclusion, we report the discovery that Salvinorin A is a potent selective KOR agonist. Salvinorin A thus represents a unique structural class of nonnitrogenous opioid subtype-selective agonists. *Additionally, these results suggest that KORs play a prominent role in the regulation of human perception and suggest that KOR antagonists could represent a novel drug class with specific activity in diseases in which alterations in perception are predominant.* Finally, these results imply that the KOR/dynorphinergic system functions to modulate human perception and cognition. "

Where KOR = Kappa Opiod Receptor

Salvia works on the kappa opioid receptors. So... I need to get me some of those KOR antagonists?


----------



## noname (Sep 23, 2008)

hi
Im a 21 years old french man , and im new on this board . I ve always liked to experiment drugs (never abusing).
I' ve experiment Salvia 3 years ago , and the result was a dp/dr state , which stay for approximately 6 month (of hell). Next I have partially recovered , i was able to live without anxiety and my dp/dr have reduced in intensity.

But the bad thing is that I've re-experiment Salvia at beginning of September (as you) : just before I' ve had my license in Computer Science , I was on holydays , was on party , smoke joints , feel fine and want to re-experiment this drugs (I very like the strange trip induced from salvia) ... 
And now im fucked , the DP/DR has flare up  , and I experiment , as 3 years ago , sligth visual disturbance (but I dont know if its a very minor case of HPPD or just derealization) . Yes I know it' s very (very very very) stupid , and I will never take anymore Salvia .

The AMAZING thing is that the two times Ive just smoke leaves and have a "small" trip , not "ego dissociation" , not the "forget that i've smoked salvia" effect , not big visual effect or anything . Just very sligth visuals distortion , DP/DR , and a nice sligth "transe state" , which I very like. Just this trip throws DP/DR :shock: .

As you , I've the Idea that kappa antagonist (as naltrexone I think) can improve my condition ... I think it is for the moment the only medication I want to try if I dont notice a decrease of my DP in a few month or a year (sound stupid , but i want not fucking my brain anymore . If kappa antagonist not working >> med free ).

I hope you and me (and other with this stupid state) feel better with time !

(Sorry for my fault in english :? )


----------



## Luciiz (Oct 15, 2008)

Hi noname, thanks for replying. Yeah I sound just like you, experimenting casually with soft drugs and psychedelics... I thought there was little to no risk involved. However even if I recover now, I doubt I'd do cannabis again, as that lead paranoid/derealized thoughts when high... too risky. So I'm pretty sure my drug experimentation career is over - I don't want to risk doing it again and making it worse - this shit is basically hell. I did the 10x extract and the trip wasn't too intense- but was intense enough to be laughing my head off and having a very strange body feel and thoughts. On the comedown like 10 minutes later all I remember was things looking unreal - my friend didn't look the same, nothing did. I thought it'd go away the next morning but it didn't 

And yeah I get a few minor visual disturbances too. Like when I'm on the train and looking out the window when pulling up to a station, it looks like it's coming towards me, but I can snap out of it if I try. Also, do you find it really easy to stare into space sometimes? Sometimes everything just blurs and you find it easy just to stare and it's kinda hard to stop.

When you went through 6 months of derealization after salvia, how did you start to feel better? Was it like 98-100% like before you did the salvia? Because if you did it once man I'm sure you can pull yourself out of it again with time.

Your post has given me hope that we can both pull through this again - you did it once, why not again?

Good luck in the future... it'll get better with time. Just remember not to do salvia anymore!

Peace, Luciiz


----------



## Luciiz (Oct 15, 2008)

Also, did you drink alcohol in the time when your DP/DR got better? Just want to know if it's a good/neutral/bad thing.


----------



## noname (Sep 23, 2008)

Hi ! (sorry I just quote and answer , ive not the time to make a long message  ...)



> And yeah I get a few minor visual disturbances too. Like when I'm on the train and looking out the window when pulling up to a station, it looks like it's coming towards me, but I can snap out of it if I try


Strange , Ive had the same type of problem... I think its a part of DR.



> When you went through 6 months of derealization after salvia, how did you start to feel better? Was it like 98-100% like before you did the salvia? Because if you did it once man I'm sure you can pull yourself out of it again with time.


An important thing : when you start to feel better , it can be 80 , 90 or 100% , no matter ... Ive began to feel better (probably 60% better) , and I have started to not give attention to my DP/DR , and with time it become 70 , 80 , 90% better... Hobby and distraction have helped my anxiety (but I'm sure that distraction is not the way to recover ... It just help anxiety and depression a bit... Basically my recover was for the most part "natural" (decrease with time). I'm (was ? ) lucky.).



> Also, did you drink alcohol in the time when your DP/DR got better? Just want to know if it's a good/neutral/bad thing.


Probably neutral , but for alcohol I dont know , Ive never drink to much in my whole life. I have just stop coffee for a long time (4-5 month) , because it have make my anxiety worse for 1/2 hours (normal side effect for all anxious person I suppose).

Are you going to a psychiatrist ? Generally are you looking for "professionnal" help ? I want just to know if professionnal know case of perceptual problem "Salvia-triggered" , if salvia can cause brain damage , if it can be cured by KOR antagonist ...


----------



## noname (Sep 23, 2008)

Anyone in this board have tried KOR antagonist for DP/DR ? 
It seems to be promising ...


----------



## Luciiz (Oct 15, 2008)

Hi noname, I'm gonna ask to see a specialist next time I go to the doctor. Maybe they would know about the pharmacology of salvia and understand my condition more than a General Practitioner would...

It'd be great to get your MSN address or something so we can just talk there..


----------



## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

There is no specific kappa antagonist.The only drug i know that may be a kappa receptor antagonist without being a mu antagonist is buprenorphine which is used for opiate addiction. It's a mu agonist/kappa antagonist i think. Good luck getting that though.

Naloxone is a mu antagonist as well as a kappa antagonist in higher doses. I don't think it's shown much promise in treating dp/dr from what ive read. Also i doubt a kappa antagonist would help all that much since dp/dr is very similar to the effects of a NMDA antagonist dissociative without the euphoria. But a NMDA agonist has been tried in a trial or 2 and it didnt work. Also a NMDA agonist is neurotoxic so even if it did work the cure would be worse then the disease.

Still i would like to see some trials in treating dp/dr with buprenorphine. It's safer then full mu agonists like morphine and heroin and is less addictive. I found mu agonists to help my dp/dr but not nearly as much as clonazepam did.


----------

