# NEURALINK



## leminaseri (Jul 1, 2020)

hey guys... what you think about this new neuralink stuff. it should be able to cure depression and ocd. maybe dpdr also?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/elon-musk-brain-chip-neuralink-depression-addiction-a9612931.html


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

This is just a continuation of existing research. There are done operations with deep brain stimulators into the brain in a very limited trails of disorders in people highly refractory to existing treatments. If you take depression it will be patients who have tried everything including ECT. This group of patients have often been brain scanned to find areas in the brain active that makes them refractory to treatment. So, they are already a subgroup within depression as they have a kind of depression with this special brain activity. So, the operation will likely not work in most people in depression but in only in this subgroup. The operation is typically done in an area called Brodmann area 25 or subgenual cingulate that is found overactive in many with refractory depression. Because the treatment/operation is very expensive you have to go though many examinations with likely many testing with functional scanners to make sure that this area is active in your case. The problem with depersonalization is we do not know such an area in the brain where we for sure can say that there is the core for depersonalization and we can intervene there and stimulate this area. The idea of intervening with operations in depression dates back some decades and the foundation for depression is this trail from 2005.

rTMS is a little related to this kind of thinking. The intervention is not so irreversible and expensive but is based on the same kind of thinking. To stimulate or inhibit an area in the brain that is found abnormally active. Brodmann area 25 is very deep in the brain for rTMS to stimulate directly. Until 2017 rTMS coil could only 1,5 cm into the brain. Then coils that can go deeper was developed and are now being approved for some conditions like OCD. They can go 4-5 cm into the brain and affect deeper structures. Brodmann area is 7-8 cm deep into the brain. This will also reduce the need for operations to stimulate many areas. So, these new coils will likely be the treatment for depersonalization. In depersonalization many locations that are deep are active so many areas have not been open for interventions until recently. So, if they can isolate the some areas in depersonalization-likely in the prefrontal cortex- they will likely could stimulate it without operations. The same is the case in refractory depression and OCD. 
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662730500156X

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodmann_area_25


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## RunToMe (May 30, 2019)

experiments with highly uncertainty like psychoactive drugs or new psychopharmakas and artificial technology like neuralink is in my opion not a good idea...especially for dpdr people who have a lot of anxiety and hyperawareness and who are highly irritable over their personality, consciousness, perception or emotions,


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## leminaseri (Jul 1, 2020)

Mayer-Gross said:


> This is just a continuation of existing research. There are done operations with deep brain stimulators into the brain in a very limited trails of disorders in people highly refractory to existing treatments. If you take depression it will be patients who have tried everything including ECT. This group of patients have often been brain scanned to find areas in the brain active that makes them refractory to treatment. So, they are already a subgroup within depression as they have a kind of depression with this special brain activity. So, the operation will likely not work in most people in depression but in only in this subgroup. The operation is typically done in an area called Brodmann area 25 or subgenual cingulate that is found overactive in many with refractory depression. Because the treatment/operation is very expensive you have to go though many examinations with likely many testing with functional scanners to make sure that this area is active in your case. The problem with depersonalization is we do not know such an area in the brain where we for sure can say that there is the core for depersonalization and we can intervene there and stimulate this area. The idea of intervening with operations in depression dates back some decades and the foundation for depression is this trail from 2005.
> 
> rTMS is a little related to this kind of thinking. The intervention is not so irreversible and expensive but is based on the same kind of thinking. To stimulate or inhibit an area in the brain that is found abnormally active. Brodmann area 25 is very deep in the brain for rTMS to stimulate directly. Until 2017 rTMS coil could only 1,5 cm into the brain. Then coils that can go deeper was developed and are now being approved for some conditions like OCD. They can go 4-5 cm into the brain and affect deeper structures. Brodmann area is 7-8 cm deep into the brain. This will also reduce the need for operations to stimulate many areas. So, these new coils will likely be the treatment for depersonalization. In depersonalization many locations that are deep are active so many areas have not been open for interventions until recently. So, if they can isolate the some areas in depersonalization-likely in the prefrontal cortex- they will likely could stimulate it without operations. The same is the case in refractory depression and OCD.
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662730500156X
> ...


its not seem to be the same thing like rtms (or similar). one of the goals of neuralink is to being able to go deeper into the brain. that chip will have a program or software on itself what lets the brain work as how the program is.

if this stuff can be developed until the end successful, that can be a real cure for dpd. what elon musk try to do is not fun.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

For me the Neuralink story reminds me of the scam surrounding the blood testing company "Theranos" that claimed to have a technology that could test fast for many conditions with a small single blodtest. People knowing about blodtesting and diseases could not understand how it was technically possible. It wasn't, it was a scam. The same here. We don't know much about many disorders, where they start in the brain. But, suddenly a device based on placing thousands of sensors in the brain that will monitor the brain - receiving information from the brain and can intervene with feedback into locations in the brain. This sounds incredible given that placing one sensor that is very simple in the brain is seen as very complex. They will do thousands.The brain is very complex and we know more about the universe than the brain. So, to place a sensor that extremely small compared to the brain to monitor the brain sounds to good to be true.

Many rightly compares the Neuralink story with the Theranos story. There are simply to many claims in conflict in what we know today.


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## Saibon (Jun 19, 2020)

I agree with Mayer-Gross this time.


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## 35467 (Dec 31, 2010)

"Elon Musk Is Playing You - Neuralink Is a Scam

As any neuroscientist will tell you, the brain is way more complicated than Elon Musk claims it is"

https://medium.com/datadriveninvestor/elon-musk-is-trying-to-take-you-for-a-fool-f41d2d56b02b


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