# Psychiatry is a Fraud & is all about Control



## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Here's a great video on what psychiatry really is..


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

So people who are hallucinating and are commanded by their voices to kill themselves don't have a mental illness? Or think about people who are manic and ruin themselves. Or think about people who have to wash their hands all day because of their OCD. Or people who starve themselves to death, because of their anorexia nervosa. Or people who have panic attacks and are so anxious that they cannot leave their house. Or Borderliners who injure themselves, sometimes leading to death?

And a treatment that alleviates these excruciating disorders is a "punishment"? I think this is a slap in the face of all people who are suffering from mental disorders, especially us. I admit that there is much in psychiatry that should be changed, but this is rubbish and bullshit beyond comprehension. This man is so irresponsible that I cannot find words for this.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

TDX said:


> So people who are hallucinating and are commanded by their voices to kill themselves don't have a mental illness? Or think about people who are manic and ruin themselves. Or think about people who have to wash their hands all day because of their OCD. Or people who starve themselves to death, because of their anorexia nervosa. Or people who have panic attacks and are so anxious that they cannot leave their house. Or Borderliners who injure themselves, sometimes leading to death?


Do you realise there're other ways to deal with those issues besides chemically lobotomising people?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Do you realise there're other ways to deal with those issues besides chemically lobotomising people?


My statement was about his claim that psychiatric disorders do not exist, but are invented. This is utter nonsense, just like those idiots who claim that AIDS does not exists or the anti vaccine movement.

I said nothing about the treatment of mental disorders.


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## apoplexy (Jan 4, 2013)

Thank you for sharing such a terrible video with us.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

At the beginning of the video I read that he is a "Thomas Szasz Award Winner", so I googled a bit about this Thomas Szasz and found some bad things that I must tell you.

For him mental disorders were just "problems in living" and that psychiatry is a "modern secular state religion". He said that mental disorders "had no underlying physiological basis, but were unwanted and unpleasant behaviors" and that mental disorders are "only a metaphor that described problems that people faced in their daily lives, labeled as if they were medical diseases". Furthermore he stated that many people with mental disorders are malingerer.

He was also for the legalization of all illegal drugs for adults. Yes, you read right: He was for the *legalization of all illegal drugs* and said that addiction is not a disease, but a "social habit". He obviously didn't care that addiction destroys peoples lifes and their family or that illegal drugs cause disorders like psychosis, HPPD and DPD. He was also a psychoanalyst and had connections to Scientology. Both do not come as a surprise for me.

I admit that psychiatry had a long history of a lack of empirically based scientific theories and cruel "treatments" which were used without any evidence for their efficacy, but with damaging side-effects and which were sometimes forced even on healty people with disastrous consequences (for example Rosemary Kennedy). But psychiatry has clearly changed for the better and it continues to do so. Many many people would be dead or had to be locked up for life without psychiatric medications. Clearly there is still much work to do (for example to stop ignoring depersonalization), but overall they are on the right track.

Neglecting the existence of mental disorders is irresponsible and cruel in my opinion. Posting such an incredibly disgusting video on a mental health forum is equal to mockery of the affected, propably comparable to posting a snuff film in a forum for grieving relatives of murder victims.


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## meekah (Sep 28, 2015)

great, and i just got on meds, thanks man...hope ruined


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

TDX said:


> At the beginning of the video I read that he is a "Thomas Szasz Award Winner", so I googled a bit about this Thomas Szasz and found some bad things that I must tell you.
> 
> For him mental disorders were just "problems in living" and that psychiatry is a "modern secular state religion". He said that mental disorders "had no underlying physiological basis, but were unwanted and unpleasant behaviors" and that mental disorders are "only a metaphor that described problems that people faced in their daily lives, labeled as if they were medical diseases". Furthermore he stated that many people with mental disorders are malingerer.
> 
> ...


TDX stop inconveniencing Zed with factual information and logical arguments.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> TDX stop inconveniencing Zed with factual information and logical arguments.


I know that he is not receptive to this. But in my opinion this time he went too far.

Another point I want to mention is that he seems to agree to a video that claims that mental disorders are invented, but at the same time he takes the existence of dissociative disorders for granted. Sounds to me like double standards.

Interestingly many psychiatrists question the validity of the crown jewels of the dissociative disorders namely dissociative amnesia and dissociative identity disorder:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11441778?dopt=Abstract

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9989574?dopt=Abstract

And another point about this video: I think the world would have been a better place if Jesus, Buddha and Mohammed were locked up. *badabing*

It's also terrible that he compares psychiatrists to Nazis. As a german I know too well about their evil crimes and how millions of innocent people where killed in the holocaust just to satisfy Hitlers delusions. In my opinion Jeffrey insults all persons who survived this and all persons who died in the hell of the concentration camps.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

scrappy said:


> great, and i just got on meds, thanks man...hope ruined


Did your your prescribing doctor inform you that there are no medications which treat dp/d before handing out meds? Or did you just walk in blindly to this decision?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Did your your prescribing doctor inform you that there are no medications which treat dp/d before handing out meds?


Another example of your double standards: There are some trials and case reports which suggest that some medications can help against DPD, but absolutely nothing that speaks in favour for your beloved dissociative disorders "therapists". Contrary to this situation you state as a fact that "there are no medications which treat dp/d", but at the same time you pretend that the dissociation researchers have that world formula of depersonalization and can treat it effectively, although they have done almost nothing to research it and even the premise of their "treatment" is not satisfied by most people with DPD.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

After watching about 1/4 of this, I thought to myself "this is something what's his name would post". (I couldn't remember the name). So I looked at who posted it, and there it was....."Zed"! Zed, you are full of it. Mental illness is not a political disorder. The brain is a large and complicated organ which can fail in a manner described in the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual. The DSM disorders were not invented....they were recognized as occurring in the general population. If Psychiatrists are frauds, what are Psychologists? They don't have any answers either, and they lack medical degrees.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

TDX said:


> I know that he is not receptive to this. But in my opinion this time he went too far.
> 
> Another point I want to mention is that he seems to agree to a video that claims that mental disorders are invented, but at the same time he takes the existence of dissociative disorders for granted. Sounds to me like double standards.
> 
> ...


FYI.. that's actually not me making that speech. So don't project everything he says onto me ok. Personally I do agree with a lot of what he says, not everything, but a lot of it. I've been around a lot longer than you and have probably spoken to more psychiatrists as well. I know what's going on in the field of psychiatry and it sure isn't about healing - it's about maintenance. Maintenance of deterioration to be more clear.

Who runs the mental health sector? Let me tell you - psychiatrists. And who is it that pours millions if not billions of dollars into research into mental health? The pharmaceutical companies. They're in bed together and both sectors make a hell of a lot of money out of it. If that doesn't set off the alarm bells and get some questions rolling, what will? Every heard of the term 'corruption'?

It's well known around this forum that you can't help yourself but to vehemently attack anybody who goes against your beliefs of 'science has the answer to everything' and we see it time and time again. Unfortunately science has no answers for anybody who suffers from overwhelming dissociation - so maybe it's time to look elsewhere if that's an issue for you.

Your pathetic insults only make me laugh.. I can understand your frustration though, because you're stuck in an awful place unable to heal using science based treatments while others who take alternative paths, recover and move in with their lives. That must be very frustrating indeed!

I think Jeffery's comparison of Nazi's to psychiatrists is quite accurate. Both are/were a scourge on society who ruin/ed the lives of millions of innocent people. Nice comparison really and very true.

You're really pulling out all the stops here aren't you? Questioning the validity of multiplism.. you're a real riot! lol I wouldn't waste my time even beginning to prove how stupid an argument that is....


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

forestx5 said:


> After watching about 1/4 of this, I thought to myself "this is something what's his name would post". (I couldn't remember the name). So I looked at who posted it, and there it was....."Zed"! Zed, you are full of it. Mental illness is not a political disorder. The brain is a large and complicated organ which can fail in a manner described in the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual. The DSM disorders were not invented....they were recognized as occurring in the general population. If Psychiatrists are frauds, what are Psychologists? They don't have any answers either, and they lack medical degrees.


Just one example of the fraud of psychiatry... Depression (which happens to be a natural human emotion) can be classified as a 'disorder'. So you can loose a parent, feel depressed (naturally of course) then be diagnosed with a depressive disorder. There's nothing 'disordered' about feeling absolutely depressed because a parent passed away. And of course once the diagnosis of depressive disorder is established, well it's time to start the meds - which is exactly what will be recommended!

Or another - anxiety (which is also a natural human emotion) can now easily be classified as a 'disorder'.

Natural human emotions are being classified as disorders by the psychiatrists. You ok with that mate?

Take a look at the number of new disorders that came out in the new DSM. All of a sudden we have hundreds of new 'disorders' that can be diagnosed and treated by psychiatrists. Now isn't that convenient for them?

Are you trying to tell us that psychologist don't have ANY answers? And the fact that not a having a medical degree is some kind of hinderance to someones ability to understand and help?

The best help and advice I ever got in my recovery was from people who've actually experienced what I was going through and not one of them has a medical degree - but all of them have wisdom and experience.

Peer support is far more powerful than some jerk with a bunch of degrees and little wisdom...


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

TDX said:


> Another example of your double standards: There are some trials and case reports which suggest that some medications can help against DPD


Define 'help' in the context of these trials.



TDX said:


> but absolutely nothing that speaks in favour for your beloved dissociative disorders "therapists".


So because there're no scientific papers which support therapists treatment for people with dissociative disorders, you try and convince everyone here that it's all a load of B/S and they don't exist? Well lets look at gravity. Scientists don't understand what gravity is. Does that make gravity B/S and non existent? Of course not! That's how ridiculous your argument is...

Get over yourself mate. Stop trying to tell us if a treatment isn't supported by some empirical study it isn't worthy of pursuing. That's so narrow minded and absolutely reeks of the agenda you're pushing.

A lot of what you say and how you go about attempting to discredit everybody who disagrees with your agenda appears to come straight from the pharma trolls textbook...


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

A brilliant blog well worth reading..

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/02/29/taking-apart-psychiatry-fraud-kings-of-the-mind/


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

http://whale.to/vaccine/troll_h.html


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## hidden (Nov 28, 2015)

*I DO NOT support Szasz's views on psychopathology!*

I grew up with the book, The Myth of Mental Illness, in my house.

But I doubt anyone in my home really believed what Mr. Szasz was saying, but it is always good to have both sides of an idea to develop your own opinion.

I just feel that Dr. Szasz--who in many ways I like as a man, as a man standing up against the atrocities of psychiatry, as a philosopher, as a social commentator-- might feel that early dementia is not a disease until 3 years later you see a brain riddled with the organic effects of Alzheimer's Disease.

Psychiatry has committed too many atrocities to list, in the past and to this day.

Though, there is proper practice of psychiatry; and it is of value.

I think confronted with all the information, you should be able to draw your own conclusions.


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## hidden (Nov 28, 2015)

Certainly, what the man in the video is saying, and what Dr. Szasz has talked about, has merit.

I DO NOT believe in controlling behavior as a reason to use drugs, restraints, chemicals, or unjust practices in the realm of psychiatry.

Certainly, psychiatry has a strong history in behavioral control: some practices involuntary, to the subjects and victims, without consent.

This is where the real atrocity is.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

Zed said: " Natural human emotions are being classified as disorders by the psychiatrists. Are you OK with that mate?"

I say: Yes, I am fine with defining mental illness as distortions of normal emotions. Depression and sadness are common life experiences. The illness of major depression is something entirely different from normal periods of sadness or brief interludes of depression.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> Here's a great video on what psychiatry really is..


Are you still talking crap about stuff you know nothing about? You're very wreckless for peddling your nonsense on here.


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## apoplexy (Jan 4, 2013)

Zed said:


> Did your your prescribing doctor inform you that there are no medications which treat dp/d before handing out meds? Or did you just walk in blindly to this decision?


No -- because he probably gave it to him for anxiety, which scrappy certainly has.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> Are you still talking crap about stuff you know nothing about? You're very wreckless for peddling your nonsense on here.


Coming from the man who tried to convince us a couple of years ago 'intuition' is a load of garbage, psuedo-science, nonsense - I hardly think your comments have any merit at all..


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Another article worth checking out

https://www.sott.net/article/245653-Protesters-Lobby-Against-the-Shrinks-Stop-Medicalizing-The-Normal-Symptoms-of-Life


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Quote from an Editor of a trusted medical journal..

*"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.* I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine." (NY Review of Books, January 15, 2009)


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

You're still full of shit as far as I can see....trolling bollocks.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> Coming from the man who tried to convince us a couple of years ago 'intuition' is a load of garbage, psuedo-science, nonsense - I hardly think your comments have any merit at all..


Talking bollocks and mis-quoting as normal. Its the last bastion of the uneducated person. You're a joke and a liar.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> Another article worth checking out
> 
> https://www.sott.net/article/245653-Protesters-Lobby-Against-the-Shrinks-Stop-Medicalizing-The-Normal-Symptoms-of-Life


That's not an article. You seem to think anythong vomited on the internet is an article (as long as it agrees with you) and ignore real published research.....utterly deluded.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> Talking bollocks and mis-quoting as normal. Its the last bastion of the uneducated person. You're a joke and a liar.


Well what did you say about intuition then?


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> That's not an article. You seem to think anythong vomited on the internet is an article (as long as it agrees with you) and ignore real published research.....utterly deluded.


It a NEWS article!!!!


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> You're still full of shit as far as I can see....trolling bollocks.


Ohh yeah.. I'm full of shit. I don't know anything do I? I've walked this earth for 53 years with my eyes and mind completely shut....

Got any more pathetic insults to attempt to try and discredit me?

Trolling bollocks? Nah man - very real.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> Well what did you say about intuition then?


You tell me - you 'seem' to think you know (and you dont).....You made the claim.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> It a NEWS article!!!!


You implied it was a science article....its a news article like Hilary Clinton being an alien.....nothing to see here fokes move along....nothing to see....


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> Ohh yeah.. I'm full of shit. I don't know anything do I? I've walked this earth for 53 years with my eyes and mind completely shut....
> 
> Got any more pathetic insults to attempt to try and discredit me?
> 
> Trolling bollocks? Nah man - very real.


No you dont know anything. Glad we agree on something.

No, you're mind is unfilled. Its empty.

Its not an insult if its true, like calling Hitler a mindless barbarian. Its true, not an insult.

No mate, you're a troll, no doubt about it, vomiting nonsense.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> No you dont know anything. Glad we agree on something.
> 
> No, you're mind is unfilled. Its empty.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, but I don't like the Hitler comparison. It's one of those things that really annoy me about Jeffrey and Zed, that they equate psychiatrists with Nazis. If we want to be better than them, we should not "hitlerize" or "nazify" bad things.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> No you dont know anything. Glad we agree on something.
> 
> No, you're mind is unfilled. Its empty.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to enter into your infantile like game of insulting..


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

TDX said:


> I agree with this, but I don't like the Hitler comparison. It's one of those things that really annoy me about Jeffrey and Zed, that they equate psychiatrists with Nazis. If we want to be better than them, we should not "hitlerize" or "nazify" bad things.


its a metaphor, and on a point of logic, perfectly valid.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> You implied it was a science article....


I did nothing of the sort.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> I'm not going to enter into your infantile like game of insulting..


But you do everytime you post. To those of us educated, your posts are offensive and reckless.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> I did nothing of the sort.


You do this all the time - you attack real science all the time with nonsense from the internet. Its laughable and irresponsible. You're not edicated in the matters you claim to be expert in - so please be quiet on those matters


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> You tell me - you 'seem' to think you know (and you dont).....You made the claim.


Right you are.. I'll admit I can't remember word for word what you wrote.

What are your thoughts on intuition again?


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

I've no idea what you're talking about - which makes two of us.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> But you do everytime you post. To those of us educated, your posts are offensive and reckless.


You're educated in one stream - I'm educated in another. I don't feel the need to insult you because you think differently to me. To do that is a sign of weakness.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> I've no idea what you're talking about - which makes two of us.


I'm asking what your thoughts are on intuition. Does it exist in your opinion?


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> You're educated in one stream - I'm educated in another. I don't feel the need to insult you because you think differently to me. To do that is a sign of weakness.


No, you claim to be educated on the matters under this section - you're not. No insult, FACT! And its reckless to allow you to spout nonsense in a forum where people might be affected by your drivel.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> You're not edicated in the matters you claim to be expert in - so please be quiet on those matters


Which is true, because he equates major depression with grieving. Only a jerk psychiatrist would diagnose someone who is grieving having major depression. I also doubt that someone who is only grieving would score high on instruments like the Beck Depression Inventory.

Major Depression is much different from grieving. Imagine someone who is constantly sad for no reason, cannot enjoy anything, constantly declares himself guilty for his state and thus wants to commit suicide all day. Consider this person stood before you: Would you tell her, that her excruciating state is a "natural human emotion"? Zed might do this.

Or his opinion about anxiety disorders. Anxiety is only classified as a disorder, when the anxiety is dysfunctional. Consider a person who is shaking in fear all day, because of recurrent panic attacks and is prisonor in his own house, due to his agoraphobia.I cannot believe how anyone could deny that this is a disorder.

The only mental disorders Zed seems to believe in are the dissociative disorders. That reminds me to people like Steinberg who seem to have the tendency to tell everyone they are dissociative.


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## Dr B (Apr 23, 2014)

Zed said:


> I'm asking what your thoughts are on intuition. Does it exist in your opinion?


I dont understand the question or the context. And you dont remember the context, even though you made a strong claim in an earlier post about my opinion. How can you be correct when you yourself have acknowledged you cant remember???

I think the best way forward is for you to stop talking on this particular thread.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Dr B said:


> I think the best way forward is for you to stop talking on this particular thread.


Well I think otherwise.



Dr B said:


> I dont understand the question or the context. And you dont remember the context, even though you made a strong claim in an earlier post about my opinion. How can you be correct when you yourself have acknowledged you cant remember???


The question I asked is quite simple and straightforward - I'll rephrase it again for you. Do you believe in intuition?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Do you believe in intuition?


I think the question is if he belives in what you consider to be intuition. But I think the word "believe" is inappropriate, because we don't want to believe in intuition in a believe-in-god-manner, but rather know if the concept is valid.


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## Alan (Jan 26, 2015)

TL;DR, zzzzz...

I should have locked this obvious flamebait earlier, but I somehow deluded myself into believing this could be a civil discussion.

This isn't the schoolyard gents.


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