# Why Naloxone can't working now?



## Hybridd (Sep 25, 2016)

Hi everyone, and sorry for my bad English.

I'm suffer of DP for 10 years (start in 2006 after painful parting with one girl). In the end of 2013 year (November) I, and my girlfriend tried to cure our DP with a person (not doctor), who knows (as he told us!) how to treat DP. As that moment I have some experience in a threatment (2 times in 1 clinic) and I actively search the cure everywhere (as is now). This person could get any recipes for drugs, and he got his own schemes of drugs for us. The main thing - he could give the Naloxone and Naltrexone. As the first time we started to use Quetiapine, Venlafaxine and other drugs, and! the Naltrexone. We dranke 25-50mg in a day (i can't remember dosage) for a week - and never happened.

"Ok" - we said and tried to use Naloxone. We inject i/m 1.6 mg at the first time. After 40 minutes an amazing thing coming - the part of DP was gone! In the 30 minutes our condition improved! We tried it again on the next week (we feared do this every day) and got the big improvement again! Back to the person who gave us recipes, he forced us to drank big dosage of every drug in scheme, and so, one day he add Clomipramine from 50 to 100 mg, and then, when we get up the next morning, there was a BIG decline - we couldn't identify us in a mirror, there was a huge tremor, DP/DR was really BAD...

After that we get off this person and first - tried to recover condition with Naloxone but it didn't work! So, after that happening, naloxone don't work up to now. Three times on the three weeks before - he worked, after - nothing. We tried 4.0 mg dosage, 8.0 mg dosage - the maximum that we get - an ultra-light improvement after hours, which then dissapear.

I can't understand - WHY. Why before it worked and after - don't.

What do you think guys? Thanks for the answers!


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

I do not know why it stopped working and I suppose nobody can give you an answer.

Another possibility might be to combine Naltrexone and Buprenorphine to selectively block the Kappa-Opioid-receptor. It wouldn't be plausible that this works, when Naloxone doesn't, but pharmacology is very complex, so it can't be ruled out definetely.



> Hi everyone, and sorry for my bad English.


Where are you from?


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## Hybridd (Sep 25, 2016)

> Where are you from?


I'm from Russia, Moscow.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

Interesting. The naloxone study was conducted by Yuri Nuller, who is a russian.


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## Hybridd (Sep 25, 2016)

Yes, I tried to read this study by Nuller, but it is SOOOOO huge, complex and hard for me 

I decide, I will try naltrexon, and when I get ready, I will start topic here.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> I decide, I will try naltrexon, and when I get ready, I will start topic here.


You will need a very high dosage of Naltrexone to block the kappa-opioid-receptor. It's not known how high it has to be exactly, but 250 mg/day was used as a target dosage in Simeons Naltrexone-Study. But it's unknown if this is sufficient.

Using high-dose Naltrexone has some downsides. Side-effects often limit the dosage. In a study for people with alcoholism the patients took 50 mg/day 15% of the participants discontinued, because of side-effects:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9400350

The side-effects seem to increase with the dosage. In Simeons Naltrexone study only 2 of 7 patients reached a dosage of 250 mg/day. In a PTSD study only 4 of 8 reached the target dosage of 200 mg/day. 3 couldn't even go beyond 100 mg/day:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12404685

You will find the same in Glovers Nalmefene study, where only 50% were able to get to high dosage:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8163362

Another downside of Naltrexone is the risk of liver toxicity in high doses. They say that Nalmefene does not have this risk, but regarding the other unpleasant side-effects, it doesn't seem to differ very much to Naltrexone. Nalmefene might be more effective than Naltrexeone, because Nalmefene has a higher affinity for the kappa-opioid-receptor. This is suggested by the PTSD studies above, where Nalmefene helped, but Naltrexone did not.

Even if you can tolerate a high dose of Naltrexone or Nalmefene there is another problem: Both a VERY expensive. Naltrexone for DP is only a reasonable treatment if a low dosage if effective, otherwise your money will run out quickly.

Combining Buprenorphine and Naltrexone might solve all problems that are connected with a sole use of Naltrexone and Nalmefene. But it's difficult to find doctors to prescribe Buprenorphine. In theory Naltrexone should block the addictive properties of Buprenorphine and some scientific results suggest this is the case, but we don't have much experiences with that, so it's unclear if these results translate to the real world (many clinical trials turn out to be wrong afterwards, particulary if they are uncontrolled).

It's also unknown how good it works against DP. In theory it should, but the lack of clinical trials, case reports or even anecdotal evidence on forums prevent us from knowing it.


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