# Has anyone tried satanism?



## Guest

Hi,

Have anyone tried satanism, where you do rutials, and "connect with your own personal guardian, or call forth arch angels to assist you and help you in making decisions.

Everyone see satanism as it is described in the movies, but it actually is not like that at all, i know quite a bit about it, but have never tried it.

If anyone's religion is satanism, please let me know if it helps for DP/DR.
Like a ritual for "personal growth", does it work :?:

Here is a interisting website: http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/ABOUT.html

*ABSTRACT FROM WEBSITE*
There is no reason one should fear Satan's Demons. When treated with respect and approached with honest intentions, they are truly wonderful. 
Their greater purpose is to teach humanity. As for purposes of revenge and the punishment of enemies, this is a part of learning, as justice is essential. Turning the other cheek creates true lawlessness, chaos and the eventual collapse of civilized society. Revenge and justice are necessary, for without correction, the offenders only continue in their abusive behavior and go on to abuse others.

When we make friends with the Demons, they often visit revenge upon those whose intention is to wrong us, and they also watch our backs. I have seen my enemies and the enemies of my loved ones punished before I even had to ask.

The Demons are very human friendly. I have had the privilege of having them work with me and teach me. I have established true friendships with several Demons that have helped me in so many ways. I have learned so much from my Demon teachers. Given the destruction of ancient libraries and centers of learning by xians, so much knowledge has been lost forever. Sometimes Demons can be strict in encouraging us to better ourselves, but this is for our own well being and development. :?

Regards

Johan


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## bat

you have to believe in christianity to believe in satan so doesnt hold much interest for me. however dr. faustus by christopher marlowe is a good read on the topic


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## bat

you have to believe in christianity to believe in satan so doesnt hold much interest for me. however dr. faustus by christopher marlowe is a good read on the topic


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## Guest

Hi,
According to this Satanism was before christianity. :?:

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... gins2.html

A battle of the gods,?? :? I an a Christian, but after I got DP/DR I started to look for something else? What do you think about this article?

Regards 
J.Delport

THE TRUE ORIGINS OF SATANISM

Satanism is not an xian invention 
Satanism predates xianity and all other religions 
Satanism is not about spooks, goblins, vampires, Halloween monsters or other related entities 
Satanism is not about "evil" 
Satanism is not an invention of, or a "reaction" to xianity 
Satanism is not a creation of Anton LaVey 
Satanism is not about death 
True Satanism is about elevating and empowering humanity to reach equality with God. 
Satan tells us in the Black Book (The Al Jilwah), many writings and texts have been altered. Upon researching the origins of various myths and religions, I find many authors are at a disagreement, both religious and secular. It is obvious much of what has been written has been altered.

The Gods left us the truth, inscribed in stone. The pyramids have stood against time. It is apparent these ancient monoliths were constructed for future humanity, left to us by the Gods who knew of our fate. These monuments speak for themselves.

Egypt goes back thousands of years, long before the emergence of judeo-xianity. Egypt has its roots in Ancient Sumeria. Many of the Egyptian God/esses can be traced all the way back. The Judeo/xtian religion stole much information about the original Gods and twisted it and corrupted it to delude and enslave humanity under the direction of hostile alien predators.

The judeo/xtian bible is chock full of Sumerian accounts of the creation (alien accomplished genetic engineering), the flood (the accounts of the great flood are found in nearly every creation myth), the tower of Babel and much more; all of these twisted and altered from the original versions. Names and identites have been turned around and misrepresented to conform to this false religion, both those of Gods and humans.

The sphynx was constructed during the age of Leo, some 10,500 years ago. There has been much dispute concerning the age of certain structures due to the fact that most Egyptologists are of the Muslim religion. The Koran claims that the world began roughly 6,000 years ago. If a Muslim states a building is 8,000 years old, he is disputing the Koran. They cannot do that, they won't even talk about it, won't even discuss it.*

There are many relics and structures which pre-date judeo-xianity by thousands of years. One thing they all have in common is the focus on the SERPENT. In Egypt, the serpent is seen everywhere, from the Egyptian crook, to the headdresses worn by the Gods.

Satanism has always been associated with witchcraft. A "witch" is someone who through whatever means, strives to control his/her life and environment, using the power of his/her mind. This is the power of the Gods. Satan has always been known to be the bringer and giver of knowledge to humanity; the one who, along with his Demons (the Old Gods) wishes to elevate humans to equality with God.

Egypt and the old religions are of Satan. Satanism, although the name has been changed, is the original religion. One only needs to have enough knowledge and look with open eyes to see the true meaning of the hieroglyphics, friezes and paintings on the walls of the Egyptian pyramids, in tombs and in temples to see these are instructions for reaching Godhead. The dead were buried there by custom as a message that these were instructions for the afterlife. For one to be reincarnated into a God. The Sacred Serpent is seen everywhere in Ancient Egyptian friezes, paintings, carvings and relics. The Serpent represents SATAN.

The serpent is also seen everywhere in Ancient Mesopotamian relics and structures. The serpent was held as sacred in many areas of the world. Satan is the God Ea, aka ENKI. One of the first of the Nephilim to arrive on this planet and establish the first civilization.? In Sumerian mythology, Ea's symbol was always the serpent. The serpent represents life, the DNA, the kundalini life force lying dormant at the base of the human spine that when activated, transforms the human soul into that of a God.

The "Horned God" originates to Sumeria. The Sumerian Gods wore headgear with horns.? This predates xianity by thousands of years. Pagan religions were known for their worship of the Horned God. Only with the coming of xianity, were they repeatedly stamped out, but continued to resurface and survive. Again, the Horned God was maligned and labeled as "evil."?

Judeo-xianity entered the scene circa 4,000 BCE. The first known assault perpetrated by followers of this religion, under the direction of their alien "god" was upon Egypt. The serpent was given a completely different meaning, that of "evil." "The Tree of Life" was already known in Ancient Egypt. It was carved on two sets of three pillars at both Karnak and Luxor, over 5,000 years ago.4

The picture becomes clear where the twisted story of the Serpent in the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden comes from. Once a very sacred and revered symbol of Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, representing the attainment of equality with God for human beings, with the emergence of Judeo-xianity, it now becomes the epitome of all "evil" and "sin."

The True God and Creator of humanity (Satan/Ea) was maligned and cursed. His symbols were desecrated and defiled. The Old Gods, Baal (Beelzebub/Enlil), Dagon, Nergal, Belial and many others, were made into "Demons and Devils."5 Followers of these Gods were murdered enmasse.6 Libraries of ancient knowledge were sacked and destroyed, in order to erase all memory of and ties with the original Gods.

The carvings and the hieroglyphics on the Temple walls and the pyramids still remain with us today. Evidence of truth for those who have enough spiritual knowledge to interpret them. This is why the Gods imprinted these into stone.

Click here for more on the History of True Satanism

Ancient Egypt 
The Serpent 
The Goat of Mendes 
A History of the Baphomet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References: 
*The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, Volume One by Drunvalo Melchezedik, Volume One, pp 18

? The Lost Book of Enki; Memiores of an Extra-Terrestrial God by Zecharia Sitchin

?The 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin, pp 79- 81

?Satan Wants You by Arthur Lyons, pp 24-26 
4The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, Volume One by Drunvalo Melchezedik,Volume One, pp 40-41

5The Biography of Satan by Kersey Graves, pp 146- 147

The People of the Sea- The Search for the Philistines by Trude and Moshe Dothan, pp 185- 186

Stairway to Heaven by Zecharia Sitchin, pp 162

Divine Encounters by Zecharia Sitchin, pp 265


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## Guest

Hi,
According to this Satanism was before christianity. :?:

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpent ... gins2.html

A battle of the gods,?? :? I an a Christian, but after I got DP/DR I started to look for something else? What do you think about this article?

Regards 
J.Delport

THE TRUE ORIGINS OF SATANISM

Satanism is not an xian invention 
Satanism predates xianity and all other religions 
Satanism is not about spooks, goblins, vampires, Halloween monsters or other related entities 
Satanism is not about "evil" 
Satanism is not an invention of, or a "reaction" to xianity 
Satanism is not a creation of Anton LaVey 
Satanism is not about death 
True Satanism is about elevating and empowering humanity to reach equality with God. 
Satan tells us in the Black Book (The Al Jilwah), many writings and texts have been altered. Upon researching the origins of various myths and religions, I find many authors are at a disagreement, both religious and secular. It is obvious much of what has been written has been altered.

The Gods left us the truth, inscribed in stone. The pyramids have stood against time. It is apparent these ancient monoliths were constructed for future humanity, left to us by the Gods who knew of our fate. These monuments speak for themselves.

Egypt goes back thousands of years, long before the emergence of judeo-xianity. Egypt has its roots in Ancient Sumeria. Many of the Egyptian God/esses can be traced all the way back. The Judeo/xtian religion stole much information about the original Gods and twisted it and corrupted it to delude and enslave humanity under the direction of hostile alien predators.

The judeo/xtian bible is chock full of Sumerian accounts of the creation (alien accomplished genetic engineering), the flood (the accounts of the great flood are found in nearly every creation myth), the tower of Babel and much more; all of these twisted and altered from the original versions. Names and identites have been turned around and misrepresented to conform to this false religion, both those of Gods and humans.

The sphynx was constructed during the age of Leo, some 10,500 years ago. There has been much dispute concerning the age of certain structures due to the fact that most Egyptologists are of the Muslim religion. The Koran claims that the world began roughly 6,000 years ago. If a Muslim states a building is 8,000 years old, he is disputing the Koran. They cannot do that, they won't even talk about it, won't even discuss it.*

There are many relics and structures which pre-date judeo-xianity by thousands of years. One thing they all have in common is the focus on the SERPENT. In Egypt, the serpent is seen everywhere, from the Egyptian crook, to the headdresses worn by the Gods.

Satanism has always been associated with witchcraft. A "witch" is someone who through whatever means, strives to control his/her life and environment, using the power of his/her mind. This is the power of the Gods. Satan has always been known to be the bringer and giver of knowledge to humanity; the one who, along with his Demons (the Old Gods) wishes to elevate humans to equality with God.

Egypt and the old religions are of Satan. Satanism, although the name has been changed, is the original religion. One only needs to have enough knowledge and look with open eyes to see the true meaning of the hieroglyphics, friezes and paintings on the walls of the Egyptian pyramids, in tombs and in temples to see these are instructions for reaching Godhead. The dead were buried there by custom as a message that these were instructions for the afterlife. For one to be reincarnated into a God. The Sacred Serpent is seen everywhere in Ancient Egyptian friezes, paintings, carvings and relics. The Serpent represents SATAN.

The serpent is also seen everywhere in Ancient Mesopotamian relics and structures. The serpent was held as sacred in many areas of the world. Satan is the God Ea, aka ENKI. One of the first of the Nephilim to arrive on this planet and establish the first civilization.? In Sumerian mythology, Ea's symbol was always the serpent. The serpent represents life, the DNA, the kundalini life force lying dormant at the base of the human spine that when activated, transforms the human soul into that of a God.

The "Horned God" originates to Sumeria. The Sumerian Gods wore headgear with horns.? This predates xianity by thousands of years. Pagan religions were known for their worship of the Horned God. Only with the coming of xianity, were they repeatedly stamped out, but continued to resurface and survive. Again, the Horned God was maligned and labeled as "evil."?

Judeo-xianity entered the scene circa 4,000 BCE. The first known assault perpetrated by followers of this religion, under the direction of their alien "god" was upon Egypt. The serpent was given a completely different meaning, that of "evil." "The Tree of Life" was already known in Ancient Egypt. It was carved on two sets of three pillars at both Karnak and Luxor, over 5,000 years ago.4

The picture becomes clear where the twisted story of the Serpent in the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden comes from. Once a very sacred and revered symbol of Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, representing the attainment of equality with God for human beings, with the emergence of Judeo-xianity, it now becomes the epitome of all "evil" and "sin."

The True God and Creator of humanity (Satan/Ea) was maligned and cursed. His symbols were desecrated and defiled. The Old Gods, Baal (Beelzebub/Enlil), Dagon, Nergal, Belial and many others, were made into "Demons and Devils."5 Followers of these Gods were murdered enmasse.6 Libraries of ancient knowledge were sacked and destroyed, in order to erase all memory of and ties with the original Gods.

The carvings and the hieroglyphics on the Temple walls and the pyramids still remain with us today. Evidence of truth for those who have enough spiritual knowledge to interpret them. This is why the Gods imprinted these into stone.

Click here for more on the History of True Satanism

Ancient Egypt 
The Serpent 
The Goat of Mendes 
A History of the Baphomet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

References: 
*The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, Volume One by Drunvalo Melchezedik, Volume One, pp 18

? The Lost Book of Enki; Memiores of an Extra-Terrestrial God by Zecharia Sitchin

?The 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin, pp 79- 81

?Satan Wants You by Arthur Lyons, pp 24-26 
4The Ancient Secret of the Flower of Life, Volume One by Drunvalo Melchezedik,Volume One, pp 40-41

5The Biography of Satan by Kersey Graves, pp 146- 147

The People of the Sea- The Search for the Philistines by Trude and Moshe Dothan, pp 185- 186

Stairway to Heaven by Zecharia Sitchin, pp 162

Divine Encounters by Zecharia Sitchin, pp 265


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## Guest

Hi,

Most christians beliefe that Anton La vey "created satanism because he hated christianity, but in actual fact La vey is NOT the creator of Satanism!!

Interesting!!

Johan.


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## Guest

Hi,

Most christians beliefe that Anton La vey "created satanism because he hated christianity, but in actual fact La vey is NOT the creator of Satanism!!

Interesting!!

Johan.


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## Martinelv

As I understand it, most modern satanists do not believe in either god or the devil. It is more a 'way of life'....an ethos, so to speak. For certain, satanists actively deny the existance of god...but that may be more due to their, er, philosophy than anything else.


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## Martinelv

As I understand it, most modern satanists do not believe in either god or the devil. It is more a 'way of life'....an ethos, so to speak. For certain, satanists actively deny the existance of god...but that may be more due to their, er, philosophy than anything else.


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## bat

is the horned god not the same as Herne, Cernunnos, or Pan, the archetypal half-man, half-beast. ie. a pagan god. and surely satanists derive from christianity, perverting the usual understanding of good and evil from that religion. paganists on the other hand worship mother nature and the horned god as these deities rule the natural rebirth of the earth.


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## bat

is the horned god not the same as Herne, Cernunnos, or Pan, the archetypal half-man, half-beast. ie. a pagan god. and surely satanists derive from christianity, perverting the usual understanding of good and evil from that religion. paganists on the other hand worship mother nature and the horned god as these deities rule the natural rebirth of the earth.


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## Guest

equality with God???hahahhahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahaahahhahahJesus Christ is the only God .....satan cant be like God...hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahah


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## Guest

equality with God???hahahhahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahaahahhahahJesus Christ is the only God .....satan cant be like God...hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahah


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## bat

i thought christ was the son of god


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## bat

i thought christ was the son of god


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## Guest

Jesus name is immanuel, meaning "God with us"


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## Guest

Jesus name is immanuel, meaning "God with us"


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## bat

does your belief help you to cope with dp or does dp challenge your belief


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## bat

does your belief help you to cope with dp or does dp challenge your belief


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## shazada (jonathan)

hey pdr, you didn't get an anwser to that question of yours, so i thought i could give you one - though i personally believe jesus is the son of god, i have to say before dp i used to be a pretty spiritual person, but since developing it, its been constant existentialism - not that i like it that way, but my mind thought, 'if i cant come to terms with the world in a physcial sense, how could i comprehend supernatural angelic forces?' so yeah i would say that dp has really challenged my beliefs and even changed them.


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## bat

hi jonathan
thanks for the reply. i'm not religious in the conventional sense but i think its sad when a life event takes away someones belief. in the worst situations people are able to get some safety and comfort from belief. before dp i feared death and now i fear eternity. i preferred it before


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## shazada (jonathan)

thanks pdr - I didn't fear death before dp also, but having lost hope in what i believed to be a promising life after death, i am more concerned about the future and and where i can turn to to gain comfort.

but the idea of eternity with dp is a baaaaaaaaaaddddd


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## Guest

Satanism is just a pathetic response to christian society. Those who do not fit in with christian society, yet are too stupid to discredit its relevance turn to satanism. If they had an ounce of common sense they'd know that atheism makes more sense, but I guess their mind couldn't process something that makes so much damn sense.


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## Guest

:twisted: i am satan and i love it


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## Phill

A child of God will love being a child of God forever. Satan's love of being who he is (himself) will come to an end in everlasting torment. Read Revelation. There is no doubt that the Bible truly is the most DISTURBING book on the shelf! ...But also the most wonderful gift to mankind for without it we would be like a ship without a rudder, tossed back and forth with every wind of doctrine. Just some words i'd thought i'd add, after all this is the "spiritual" section of the forum.


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## Phill

I believe atheism makes SO much sense to the natural mind too. It really does. But that's the problem. The deception with atheism is just that. Christianity makes NO sense to the natural (carnal) mind. And because of this many prefer the former. I mean, it does sound ridiculous, does it not? That a 33 year old carpenter, 2000 years ago died on a wooden cross to save mankind from his sins, once and for all!. Look up the word "stupidity" in the dictionary and that is what you should get! But to the God-shaped vacuum that exists in each one of us, to the lost human soul that yearns for forgiveness and genuine love, it makes perfect sense. 
Where do i come up with this stuff? Maybe i'm inspired by God himself, or maybe i just read the bible occasionally.


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## Guest

White Golden Queen.

Satanism is dark. It is selfish. It is empowered. It is Autonomous - Everything you need to survive in this world, and everything controlling parents HATE.

The serpent is the energy experienced with dominating (position) during sex.
It is sexual dominance.

The horned figure is being grounded - That which GROUNDS you in your "self".

It is mind-control. It means having an extremily steady mind. You wouldn't slip into DP if you were a demon worshipper, no...

I think the language used in your references is "non-paranoid, powerful, and self-assured". In full power of one's own mind.

The devil is darkness incarnate.

White light behaviour can also be viewed as weak foolishness though too, because as you throw your defences down, you leave yourself NOWHERE TO GO.

I always see strong, confident powerful cognitive ability in satanic writings...
Mind-control. Which also = sanity.

I think satanic preaching often (and endlessly) decries itself to be good.

I think witches have always existed, and it is said that we all were attuned to this ability in our early existence.

I think the irrationality of the Pyramids etc is very... disturbing. I dont like such BIG FAT riddles existing in the world.
If we cant build pyramids NOW, I wanna know how they did it...

Satanism, is empowered, self-assured, and highly autonomous behaviours, that doesn't bow to God, but reaches up a hand to join Him.

I just wonder why some of these writings and preachers arn't more successful, the theory is brilliant. But the constant use of the word satan kinda ruins it.


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## Martinelv

The deception of Atheism ? Please explain, seeing as all atheism is, by definition, simply a 'lack of faith'. A-theism. Lack of faith. Nothing more, nothing less.

The implication is that those who lack faith are decieved ? Boy. We've back where we started....

:roll:

Belief in 'god/s' IS ridiculous, because.....well, it is. It's as ridiculous as believing in the tooth fairy. MORE so in fact. All the tooth fairy does is leave some money under your pillow. Santa Claus drops presents down the chimney. But god.....whoa.........he's the real deal. Yes. We willingly gobble down the idea (from a 2000 year old book) that there was this guy (with strangely schizophrenic sounding symptoms) walking around performing miracles, and that he's the son of god. And he loves us, but doesn't stop the multitude of atrocities on this planet, because of FREE WILL - his greatest gift - yet his image appears from time to time in the middle of a potato or on a greasy window, just to remind us to keep the faith.

:shock:


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## Guest

Martinelv said:


> The deception of Atheism ? Please explain, seeing as all atheism is, by definition, simply a 'lack of faith'. A-theism. Lack of faith. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> The implication is that those who lack faith are decieved ? Boy. We've back where we started....
> 
> :roll:
> 
> Belief in 'god/s' IS ridiculous, because.....well, it is. It's as ridiculous as believing in the tooth fairy. MORE so in fact. All the tooth fairy does is leave some money under your pillow. Santa Claus drops presents down the chimney. But god.....whoa.........he's the real deal. Yes. We willingly gobble down the idea (from a 2000 year old book) that there was this guy (with strangely schizophrenic sounding symptoms) walking around performing miracles, and that he's the son of god. And he loves us, but doesn't stop the multitude of atrocities on this planet, because of FREE WILL - his greatest gift - yet his image appears from time to time in the middle of a potato or on a greasy window, just to remind us to keep the faith.
> 
> :shock:


So... You're an "atheist"???

I always find the bible uncredible too. It's weird. Such a fairy-tale, like Joan of Ark, or Hans Christian Anderson, like a victim of Chinese whispers...
I dont like "following" books written some years AFTER the death of Jesus, fragments passed down over time, and taken as gospel... chinese whispers. Dosn't feel safe, or sane. But you can cling to it when drowning. Helps to keep peoples heads straight...


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## Martinelv

Technically, yes I am - simply because I lack faith, and so are people who call themselves Agnostic. They too lack faith, even if they are undecided. I dislike the label however, as it brings up images of immoral serial killers. I prefer secular humanist myself ! Much more touchy-feely.

I understand entirely that religion brings comfort to some people, and good for them, I don't care. A persons spiritual beliefs aren't mine or anyone elses concern, just as their sex preference or which side of the bed they get out of. But I defend my right to air my opinion on religion and equally I don't care if the religious scream 'You're offending me'. Tough shit. I'm offended by almost every single thing about religion, so we're both in the same boat. I live with it, so should they.


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## Guest

Martinelv said:


> Technically, yes I am - simply because I lack faith, and so are people who call themselves Agnostic. They too lack faith, even if they are undecided. I dislike the label however, as it brings up images of immoral serial killers. I prefer secular humanist myself ! Much more touchy-feely.
> 
> I understand entirely that religion brings comfort to some people, and good for them, I don't care. A persons spiritual beliefs aren't mine or anyone elses concern, just as their sex preference or which side of the bed they get out of. But I defend my right to air my opinion on religion and equally I don't care if the religious scream 'You're offending me'. Tough sh*t. I'm offended by almost every single thing about religion, so we're both in the same boat. I live with it, so should they.


Religious people are TOUGH NUTS... I never "get" what they get out of their relationship with their God.
"The Lord understands", "Jesus Loves me"...

My Uncle said, that in Vietnam, He found God when cornered alone, and the BARGAIN of "God help me, I'll never sin again", goes out the window, as soon as you're safe.

When I was a kid... It's weird, a few times when cornered, and shaking etc, I IMMEDIATELY WENT INTO "God help me, HEAR me God, I'm your child"... all that nonsense...
Weak, and selfish... might be another term...


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## sleepingbeauty

god and the devil = duality

GOD is the YIN to the devils YANG.

they both exist inside of everyone.. everything. positive and negative particles swirling together to become ONE.

LIFE ultimately leads to DEATH. 
where there is LOVE there is also HATE.

dont try to manipulate it, or understand it. its the law of what IS.

_ up up up up up up
points the spire of the steeple
but god's work isn't done by god
it's done by people

up up up up up up
points the fingers of the trees
the lumberjacks
with their bloody axes
are on their knees

and just when you think that you've got enough
enough grows
and everywhere that you go in life
enough knows

up up up up up up
dances the steam from the sewer
as she rounds the corner
the brutal wind blows right through her

up up up up up up
raises the stakes of the game
each day sinks its bootprint into her clay
and she's not the same

and just when you think that you've got enough
enough grows
and everywhere that you go in life
enough knows

and half of learning how to play
is learning what not to play
and she's learning the spaces she leaves
have their own things to say
then she's trying to sing just enough
so that the air around her moves
and make music like mercy
that gives what it is
and has nothing to prove

she crawls out on a limb
and begins to build her home
it's enough just to look around
to know she's not alone

up up up up up up
points the spire of the steeple
but god's work isn't done by god
it's done by people
_


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## Guest

sleepingbeauty said:


> up up up up up up
> points the spire of the steeple
> but god's work isn't done by god
> it's done by people
> 
> up up up up up up
> points the fingers of the trees
> the lumberjacks
> with their bloody axes
> are on their knees
> 
> and just when you think that you've got enough
> enough grows
> and everywhere that you go in life
> enough knows
> 
> up up up up up up
> dances the steam from the sewer
> as she rounds the corner
> the brutal wind blows right through her
> 
> up up up up up up
> raises the stakes of the game
> each day sinks its bootprint into her clay
> and she's not the same
> 
> and just when you think that you've got enough
> enough grows
> and everywhere that you go in life
> enough knows
> 
> and half of learning how to play
> is learning what not to play
> and she's learning the spaces she leaves
> have their own things to say
> then she's trying to sing just enough
> so that the air around her moves
> and make music like mercy
> that gives what it is
> and has nothing to prove
> 
> she crawls out on a limb
> and begins to build her home
> it's enough just to look around
> to know she's not alone
> 
> up up up up up up
> points the spire of the steeple
> but god's work isn't done by god
> it's done by people


This is me

:?:


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## Guest

I have so much to "piece back together" that when I achieve it, everyone I know will leave me.

I have parts missing from me that most people never lose.


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## Guest

...after reading this thread I am just confused...someone asked me what my religion was once. I said something like... Theist humanist agnostic freethinker. Asked how I could be a theist and agnostic at the same time, I merely shrug. All of this stuff really is quite complex. It is the realm of ideas, simply put.
Whether one looks at the universe and sees simple physical mechanism or 'intelligent design' of a sort (neither is mutually exclusive in my mind) is simple predilection, I suppose. I have a total respect for your beliefs Marty, though I both disagree and agree with you. I could never argue with you, because I'd never win, and you obviously know what you're talking about, so it's not as if I have to 'correct' you.
--Peace.


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## Guest

When it comes to theological/philosophical debates there are two desires I have to fight. The first is that everyone should think like I do on any kind of subject not empirically proveable (i.e. 2+2=4)
If there are 15 things I truly believe, two of them are:

13. Perfectly intelligent, informed people can feel a different way on a subject than me, and it's alright to disagree
14. Both idiots and geniuses can feel the same way on a given subject as me, or differently.

another is 1. Information and knowledge are plentiful, understanding is difficult.

As for Satanism; A) If I believe in spiritual forces, Satan is not the one I'd "turn to" B) If Satanism is about the ideas, I'm sure there are humanist ideals that mirror it without "religious" trappings.

Just some ideas I have, peace.


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