# Injection that can reduce anxiety and depersonalization



## Ray46

Hi guys

I got depersonalization disorder in summer 2011 when I was 14 years old. I'm 22 now. It was brought on by an anxiety attack after I smoked weed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365

In this study 30 active military service members with combat-related PTSD were offered a stellate ganglion block as part of their treatment program. Patients reported greatest improvement in the first week after SGB for the following symptoms:

irritability or angry outbursts
difficulty concentrating
sleep disturbance

2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:

feeling distant or cut off
feeling emotionally numb
irritability or angry outbursts
difficulty concentrating

It is hypothesized that trauma leads to an increase in nerve growth factor in the stellate ganglion. This in turn leads to a sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which increases the production of a number of neurotransmitters, including adrenaline and norepinephrine, which makes people anxious. Stellate ganglion block leads to a reduction in nerve growth factor and sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which helps reverse trauma/anxiety symptoms.

Here is the mechanism explainted in detail:

http://assets.cureus.com/uploads/poster/file/717/PTSD_SGB_Poster.pdf

Here is some other stuff about stellate ganglion block and PTSD:


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## 106473

How this doesn't have more or any replies. First that is awesome. Now how to recreate that in the U.K. Is my question. Shocked at how instant it was but chuffed for you


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## nikosmar

amazing i wonder if this process can be performed here in sydney where i live..........i also experienced twice a huge unblocking and alertness as a shiatsu practitioner was working my neck and when an other osteopathy practitioner after relaxing massage pulled back my head as i was in horizontal position using a special belt that was garbing my hall neck chin and head. I also believe that whole blocks of nerves and muscles can become numb blocked reproducing an unnatural seance of self and triggering vicious circles of anxiety and new LEVELS OF DP DR.


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## Pondererer

Nice stuff! Im gonna read more about this and talk to my therapist about it


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## 707

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## Billy D.P.

I'm not sure how you'd go about trying this unless you need it though...


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## 106473

Me too Billy. *edited comment* this is available for PTSD!


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## brill

I remember reading about this years ago as a treatment for PTSD, specifically war veterans. I remember in the article, the soldier felt that calmness right away. That's awesome that this helped you! I think right now, the only possible way to have this procedure in the US would be if you had PTSD or could contact the US doctor who was using this method. For some reason, I think he was up north...maybe Chicago or so.


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## XBrave

wow this is awesome :-o


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## 106473

https://www.anxiety.org/stellate-ganglion-block-for-ptsd

turns out this is recognised in America, if I or someone can find a place in the UK i'm gonna do it

EDIT: places do this for PTSD everywhere, just found one in the UK. I'll keep you posted, just organised a phone consultation, this is so worth a punt, some of the stuff I am reading is gold, just when you think you've read it all. This sounds promising, best thread i've read, thanks OP


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## Broken

http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ptsd-trauma-and-stressor-related/stellate-ganglion-block-fails-as-possible-ptsd-treatment/article/406455/

Im taking it with a pinch of salt for now. Good for you though! If I see another miracle from someone else, I will be willing to give it a go.

Incidentally my C2 is out of place, I get neck discomfort. I dont know how related this is, but had already arranged to see an osteopath this wkend before reading this. Once I saw him and got miraculous relief that lasted a few hours.. another time though, nothing. But its giving me jip so will get it sorted and let people know what happens


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## eddy1886

Very very interesting !!!


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## 106473

Broken said:


> http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ptsd-trauma-and-stressor-related/stellate-ganglion-block-fails-as-possible-ptsd-treatment/article/406455/
> 
> Im taking it with a pinch of salt for now. Good for you though! If I see another miracle from someone else, I will be willing to give it a go.
> 
> Incidentally my C2 is out of place, I get neck discomfort. I dont know how related this is, but had already arranged to see an osteopath this wkend before reading this. Once I saw him and got miraculous relief that lasted a few hours.. another time though, nothing. But its giving me jip so will get it sorted and let people know what happens


I read that too, then I spent a while looking at the results of people on youtube and well you get that type of article on everything, Lamotrigine I read failed to beat Placebo, yet many people find it helps. Also this 3 minute video states two studies of 70-75% and how it works in just 3 minutes. (In the description and the other videos are great too, this way people might watch)






Anyway, i'll be testing it out, so you don't have to believe articles, but I very much believe the OP especially based on war vets who had the same experience with full PTSD and the fact it's actually given to victims now in America after shootings and car crashes instead of medication.


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## M1k3y

im fucking breaking my shoulder and getting this shit, idc im looking this puppy up and im getting it, some how or some way


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## 106473

M1k3y said:


> im fucking breaking my shoulder and getting this shit, idc im looking this puppy up and im getting it, some how or some way


you don't have to that is the amazing thing about it. It's available across Europe and America (so probably where you are!) for PTSD.


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## mrt

CK1 said:


> Anyway, i'll be testing it out, so you don't have to believe articles, but I very much believe the OP especially based on war vets who had the same experience with full PTSD and the fact it's actually given to victims now in America after shootings and car crashes instead of medication.


Wow. Hope it goes well, fingers crossed!


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## 106473

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The OP was diagnosed with PTSD. What will be interesting is how Depersonalized people without PTSD will respond to this treatment.


Totally, although so was I when I told my GP in [Redacted] I had DP, it's that same argument. He said what the internet thinks, it's a sub-type. It's actually more the symptoms that makes me so excited to try this. I defiantly don't have PTSD in the full sense, which is why I always agued against it. But it's what the OP said with the trials improvement, most are exactly what I want to improve. Anyway i'll stop talking and start organising, phone call today, i'll update this post with the date.

Trial said straight away improvement

difficulty concentrating

sleep disturbance

2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:

feeling distant or cut off
feeling emotionally numb <--- when i read that, i was sold
irritability or angry outbursts
difficulty concentrating

ps, the author guy on the youtube video said he went from using clonazepam and other drugs daily to not needing them for anxiety... (or AD's at all for depression)


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## XBrave

Well, they(us military guys) say dp is a dissociative sub-type of PTSD (a version of ptsd with numbness, derealization and without flashbacks) . In most of the cases dp starts with a terrifying experience/panic attacks.

and what is interesting is that sympathetic nervous system is always working full force with dp. i have not seen any dp sufferer who is 100% calm and enjoying all the moments of his life. That's hardly fuckin possible because The sympathetic nervous system is controlling the body automatically 24/7; without you realizing it. That's why it's so fuckin hard to stop the feeling. to let it go. because it is being done subconsciously. the tightness most of us feel in our body is probably caused by the over activity of the sympathetic nervous system.

The ganglion shot seems to disable this freezing response and enable the parasympathetic nervous system to take care of the body and produce calming effects. i remember reading recovery story of a guy who snapped out of his dp by meditating for 7 days with a Buddhist group after years of suffering. deep breathing actually activates the parasympathetic nervous system; what we generally do in meditation. While the sympathetic nervous system is responsible for producing adrenaline, Norepinephrine , cortiol, ... the parasympathetic nervous system produces all the calming and happy neurotransmitters like serotonin and helps create an Alpha brain wave pattern.

also, there are articles mirroring dp with Complex ptsd or accumulated trauma.

so generally i think we're dealing with the nervous system here. As i remember after smoking weed, i had something like a nervous overload sometimes like my nervous system was not that tough to handle massive amounts of thc/marijuana.

anyways, that was my view on this that i liked to share. hope we get positive results from this treatment.

https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/Dissociative_Subtype_of_PTSD.asp


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## cl1max

This is remarkable. I wish there was a way to check to see if you have excess ganglia buildup that causes this.. to know if the shot actually will help. There are some complications to the injection



> The risks of the procedure, though infrequent, may include seizure - if the medication is injected into a blood vessel - bleeding, pneumothorax (collapsed lung), brachial plexus block (temporary numb arm that lasts for a few hours), spinal or epidural block (temporary weakness or numbness from the neck down), allergic reaction to medication, nerve damage, and bruising at the injection site.


http://umrehabortho.org/programs/pain/health/faqs/stellate-ganglion-blocks

which is why I am also nervous to even ask for this treatment.

Secondly, how do those that recover naturally compare to those who use this treatment. If the anesthesia is literally killing the bad nerves, then how are the ones who recover without anything losing those nerves?

I myself have gone through a really bad car accident (https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/779c63a299bd9eabb7f982feaf7fc022f182ecfb/c=0-24-800-476&r=x324&c=600x321/local/-/media/Rochester/NG/2013/09/20/rocjumpbrighton.jpg) and before you ask, no I wasnt the driver or in the passenger seat thankfully.

Though DP has surfaced 4.25 years after the accident, but I think it was mostly weed and stress induced.

AKA I just want to know how I can truly qualify for this shot because I dont want to get it if I dont need it. Also, I have been seeing general improvements to the DPDR, especially regarding the DR itself. I have anxiety, fog, floaters, concentration issues mostly.

This is revolutionary though. And I pray to god this is the missing link for many long term sufferers both on and of the forums/reddit.


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## 106473

Totally agree Heylow

I've been on the ball. Emailed loads of companies, good news is one company has said yes, two week waiting list and that's all there is really to it, bad news is, unlike the centres here that do it for pain costing around £400 including consultation....

This company for consultation and treatment same day is £1,050 and is based in Bristol (so for me a flight, hotel). I am waiting on other emails and trying to find other places but it seems that there are very few licensed in UK for PTSD, anyway if I can't find an alternative I will be saving up and doing this in August or September. £1,000 took me back for about 20minutes, then I got the 'whatever it takes' attitude back


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## XBrave

ck1,

i haven't found any company or direct seller for this in my country (I live in iran_ health care status is really great here). i'm sure there are places that will do it but don't know how to find them. please keep us updated!


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## 106473

I think for PTSD it's all private.

One thing I am really confused about, is it's a standard procedure from what I can work out. A Stellate Ganglion Block is the same thing for 40 conditions, so why is it difficult to get for PTSD when it's easy to get for say 'hot flashes' or 'Nerve pain' and why is it then so much more expensive? i can't find where it is any different than what the OP had for instance for the shoulder.

I had to do a lot of research and only found 1. I am sure places do a Stellate Ganglion Block in Iran, have a look, also can someone answer if there is any difference, know we are all learning here


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## Ray46

Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! Maybe I will do the procedure again haha. At least im still calm and didn't have panic attacks, nightmares, thinking im going crazy and depression since the first injection.

I also read that many patients with ptsd needed two injectionts in the neck at the same time to get the best result.

I would only recommend this procedure if your depersonalization is combinated with extreme anxiety.

Here is the newest video:


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## 106473

Totally, gonna make sure it is the same. On the list is 'Severe headaches' I might be able to get my GP to do this for free... lets see how open he is to the idea


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## 106473

Double post, but this is easily the most interesting thread....i'm obsessed with this now.

Okay so articles are hit and miss but if you are bored, want some gossip and some people telling you how it went

https://www.myptsd.com/c/threads/sgb-ptsd-treatment-article.11417/page-10

every so often you get some bitching when it starts saying the words "Chemical, Brain, Problem" time to skip.

I'll not spoil the tread but some girly gossip in it too.


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## cl1max

Hopefully a mod will approve my comments soon.

The treatment looks hopeful, but also there have been reported cases of "locked-in syndrome" after this treatment. I would not want anyone to be in a worse state after treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2943702/

Cheers


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## Glidarn

Finally something really intresting, thanks alot, OP for this! Someone should make this thread viewable to everyone on the "home-page" of website, it really seems to be something promising. Next time i speak to my Psychologist im going to mention this and try to get help by them to see if i can get this done close to where i live aswell, it just looks to promising not to try..

Just think if this could be the miracle cure we have all been waiting for, like wow, think about feeling emotions again.. I'd do anything to get back into reality again!

Much love to you all, keep up the good stuff and never give up guys & girls!


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## XBrave

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! Maybe I will do the procedure again haha. At least im still calm and didn't have panic attacks, nightmares, thinking im going crazy and depression since the first injection.
> 
> I also read that many patients with ptsd needed two injectionts in the neck at the same time to get the best result.
> 
> I would only recommend this procedure if your depersonalization is combinated with extreme anxiety.
> 
> Here is the newest video:


ray46,

thanks for sharing this

please keep us updated!


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## 99880

heyLow said:


> Well, they(us military guys) say dp is a dissociative sub-type of PTSD (a version of ptsd with numbness, derealization and without flashbacks) . In most of the cases dp starts with a terrifying experience/panic attacks.
> 
> and what is interesting is that sympathetic nervous system is always working full force with dp. i have not seen any dp sufferer who is 100% calm and enjoying all the moments of his life. That's hardly fuckin possible because The sympathetic nervous system is controlling the body automatically 24/7; without you realizing it. That's why it's so fuckin hard to stop the feeling. to let it go. because it is being done subconsciously. the tightness most of us feel in our body is probably caused by the over activity of the sympathetic nervous system.
> 
> The ganglion shot seems to disable this freezing response and enable the parasympathetic nervous system to take care of the body and produce calming effects. i remember reading recovery story of a guy who snapped out of his dp by meditating for 7 days with a Buddhist group after years of suffering. deep breathing actually activates the parasympathetic nervous system; what we generally do in meditation. While the sympathetic nervous system is responsible for producing adrenaline, Norepinephrine[/size] [/size], cortiol, ... the parasympathetic nervous system produces all the calming and happy neurotransmitters like serotonin and helps create an Alpha brain wave pattern.
> 
> also, there are articles mirroring dp with Complex ptsd or accumulated trauma.
> 
> so generally i think we're dealing with the nervous system here. As i remember after smoking weed, i had something like a nervous overload sometimes like my nervous system was not that tough to handle massive amounts of thc/marijuana.
> 
> anyways, that was my view on this that i liked to share. hope we get positive results from this treatment.
> 
> https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/Dissociative_Subtype_of_PTSD.asp


Interestingly, in cases of extreme dissociation (shutting down of sensory, motor and speech systems)) parasympathetic dominance occurs. When this occurs during trauma, extreme fear may lead to a state of serenity/ bliss.


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## XBrave

morph said:


> Interestingly, in cases of extreme dissociation (shutting down of sensory, motor and speech systems)) parasympathetic dominance occurs. When this occurs during trauma, extreme fear may lead to a state of serenity/ bliss.


all i mean is that, i think there is dysfunction in Autonomic Nervous System activity. The remedy is to reset this unbalance. There is either Sympathetic or Parasympathetic over-activity. I have not seen many cases with parasympathetic dominance though.

personally, i think my sympathetic nervous system (freeze response) is always in charge based on these facts:

1_ My shoulders are always tightened up so hard they could reach my ears. I realize this consciously at times and loosen them up. but in no time they are tight again. this also happens with my stomach, neck and jaw. they are automatically tight 24/7.

2_I can never let go of the anxious thoughts. I don't have intense anxiety or anything but i always feel like there are threats to my existence. I can never ease off in my bed. Those bs absurd thoughts are popping up 24/7 in my head. (My dp is not blank mind dp_ it's more of a depressive "you're enlightened" "let's do zazen" kinda dp with a shitload of inner monologues)

the fact that some people have snapped out of DDD after water fasting/ taking supplements/ going on a paleolithic diet... supports the fact that the autonomic nervous system needs a reboot. then what gives your body a reboot?! it's different for everybody. but possible.

this treatment may not cure all of us but it could and it will bring some temporary relief for some. I'm waiting for people to post results about this but am really positive about it.


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## 106473

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! Maybe I will do the procedure again haha. At least im still calm and didn't have panic attacks, nightmares, thinking im going crazy and depression since the first injection.
> 
> I also read that many patients with ptsd needed two injectionts in the neck at the same time to get the best result.
> 
> I would only recommend this procedure if your depersonalization is combinated with extreme anxiety.
> 
> Here is the newest video:


That video is interesting C6 is the standard one you can get for pain and loads of things, this doctor has now added C3.

So maybe the PTSD one I looked into does both...that's why it's nearly double the price, i doubt it but i will be annoying them again to find out Monday.


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## 106473

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! Maybe I will do the procedure again haha. At least im still calm and didn't have panic attacks, nightmares, thinking im going crazy and depression since the first injection.
> 
> I also read that many patients with ptsd needed two injectionts in the neck at the same time to get the best result.
> 
> I would only recommend this procedure if your depersonalization is combinated with extreme anxiety.
> 
> Here is the newest video:


Thanks for this thread. So you now just get it in bursts, what would you say the symptoms that come back are if you don't mind?

it killed the emotional numbness i am guessing by the fact your depression is gone?


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## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Yes, it's very important to point out that there are several side effects & complications that can arise due to this procedure. We must do our homework first!


That's why the stellate ganglion block should be performed under an X-ray image.


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## Ray46

CK1 said:


> Thanks for this thread. So you now just get it in bursts, what would you say the symptoms that come back are if you don't mind?
> it killed the emotional numbness i am guessing by the fact your depression is gone?


Yeah it killed my emotional numbness. Just sometimes in stressful situations the brain fog comes back but im not in panic anymore.

By the way stellate ganglion block is also used for tinnitus. So you could say to the doctor that you have an anxiety disorder which gives you tinnitus and that this procedure would be a win win situation for you because you red that it also helps with anxiety.


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## M1k3y

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The OP was diagnosed with PTSD. What will be interesting is how Depersonalized people without PTSD will respond to this treatment.


i think everyone with DP has PTSD, in a way, reading this topic, i was thinking to myself and i releaved some stress of a pass incidnet that was some what haunting me today and i didnt even kno it, until i thought deep about it and realized it, when i first read about DP, a lot was reaching back into the past, healing from those past traumas, thats how we get over DP, this is a effiencent way


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## M1k3y

cl1max said:


> This is remarkable. I wish there was a way to check to see if you have excess ganglia buildup that causes this.. to know if the shot actually will help. There are some complications to the injection
> 
> http://umrehabortho.org/programs/pain/health/faqs/stellate-ganglion-blocks
> 
> which is why I am also nervous to even ask for this treatment.
> 
> Secondly, how do those that recover naturally compare to those who use this treatment. If the anesthesia is literally killing the bad nerves, then how are the ones who recover without anything losing those nerves?
> 
> I myself have gone through a really bad car accident (https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/779c63a299bd9eabb7f982feaf7fc022f182ecfb/c=0-24-800-476&r=x324&c=600x321/local/-/media/Rochester/NG/2013/09/20/rocjumpbrighton.jpg) and before you ask, no I wasnt the driver or in the passenger seat thankfully.
> 
> Though DP has surfaced 4.25 years after the accident, but I think it was mostly weed and stress induced.
> 
> AKA I just want to know how I can truly qualify for this shot because I dont want to get it if I dont need it. Also, I have been seeing general improvements to the DPDR, especially regarding the DR itself. I have anxiety, fog, floaters, concentration issues mostly.
> 
> This is revolutionary though. And I pray to god this is the missing link for many long term sufferers both on and of the forums/reddit.


everything is gonna have something bad about it, they say it so u cant sue em, im sure this shot will help us all


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## eddy1886

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! Maybe I will do the procedure again haha. At least im still calm and didn't have panic attacks, nightmares, thinking im going crazy and depression since the first injection.
> 
> I also read that many patients with ptsd needed two injectionts in the neck at the same time to get the best result.
> 
> I would only recommend this procedure if your depersonalization is combinated with extreme anxiety.
> 
> Here is the newest video:


Im confused....The title on this thread is..............

How an injection in the neck cured my depersonalization and severe anxiety!

But yet you just said ".........Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! "

Are you "CURED" or not...

When I say cured I mean is your DP and anxiety gone COMPLETELY ?

This is gonna raise the debate of what defines cured....To me cured means that the DP goes away and doesnt come back and even more so the sufferer stops fearing it coming back...The fact is if you still fear DP coming back it means you still have anxiety about it inside you and hence you still ahve the potential inside for it to raise its ugly head...

I actually believe what has happened here is that the injection has made your DP manageable...

Sorry for being so cynic but medication keeps my DP manageable....Is this not the same thing...


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## 106473

Okay i've spent all day and now it's 6am. my research of all day found that what you got a C6 is no longer the whole process. Which is a good thing, it was shown to help for sure. But watch this video, he goes the C6, it doesn't change much. So he does C3 (usually just these two) but he is still the same, so C7 he does also. BINGO






would be amazing to go to this guy directly, as most just do it on C6 (haven't figured out yet waiting on a response from centre in UK to see if they include C3) but this guy knows his stuff, goes in for C7 and gets success. Basically he is a responsive doctor, treats what he see's, doesn't set out with a set plan. (unlike most who do the procedure and send you home!)

I figure, yes C6 changed how you feel from the better as you said, and I am sure it helped as you said curing a lot of symptoms, i've a couple of thoughts, one it's not the full PTSD treatment that has moved on in 5 years from just C6, this doctor has kept learning like all good doctors, even mentions he started to research the changes in the brain which according to him show up on an MRI, so dramatic enough.

Second thought is, remember this is a cure for PTSD. But surely my thinking is, if you made sure you nailed that side, the DP recovery without anxiety and depression would come faster or failing that, life would still be better.

Just learning and sharing as I learn. I mean I spent all day reading. It's the C6 alone that has some doubters and trials, the trials don't mention C3 or the option for C7. I spent all day yesterday reading the PTSD forum I linked up there and you can doubt but they are blown away anyone who has been and they just had C6. They say it's like being on no drug or medication relief, they just feel normal.

For anyone in Chicago, it's 800 - 1000$, it might add £1000, but i am now considering going to him directly and flying in. Might take a long time to save, but this guy knows what he is talking about for sure. Looking him up (too tired to think of his name) this is not the only thing he has achieved and famous research doctor.

Also Eddy, i get what you are saying with medication taking things to a manageable level, but he has proof that patients now have had no PTSD in 6 years with no more need for injections... if it turns out the guy needs one after 10, what's a one of jab every 10 years for not just relief, no symptoms in a lot of cases? No one he has cured of PTSD has needed more than 3 injections so far and no medications and they are usually to use an old fashion word 'shell shocked' from very extreme things like the 911 firefighter, who lost 91 friends in one day. So that's understandable.

Medication compared to the forums/videos stories, they all quit medication straight after it, they felt completely normal


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## dreamedm

I wonder if this would work for the "blank mind."


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## 106473

dreamedm said:


> I wonder if this would work for the "blank mind."


If you have time i'll find out. But studies say depression, anxiety lifted and emotional numbness all went away as OP said, these are the things I believe in a lot of cases are blocking the mind. I hope someone else tries this soon, could take me 4-10 months depending if i do it America or UK


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## Ray46

eddy1886 said:


> Im confused....The title on this thread is..............
> 
> How an injection in the neck cured my depersonalization and severe anxiety!
> 
> But yet you just said ".........Hey guys unfortunatley i still have moments where my depersonalization comes back but in a very controllable way; so it's not a MIRACLE CURE! "
> 
> Are you "CURED" or not...
> 
> When I say cured I mean is your DP and anxiety gone COMPLETELY ?
> 
> This is gonna raise the debate of what defines cured....To me cured means that the DP goes away and doesnt come back and even more so the sufferer stops fearing it coming back...The fact is if you still fear DP coming back it means you still have anxiety about it inside you and hence you still ahve the potential inside for it to raise its ugly head...
> 
> I actually believe what has happened here is that the injection has made your DP manageable...
> 
> Sorry for being so cynic but medication keeps my DP manageable....Is this not the same thing...


My dp was gone completely for some weeks but than came back a little. The problem is i had only one shot in the neck. For long lasting results you probaly have to do a second stellate ganglion block. But anyways im happier than never before!


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## cl1max

If it was alot cheaper id attempt it right away. My parents dont even think anything is wrong and I have been making quite a lot of progress on my own so there is really no chance of me doing it. Please inform us to anyone who does get it done!


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## M1k3y

cl1max said:


> If it was alot cheaper id attempt it right away. My parents dont even think anything is wrong and I have been making quite a lot of progress on my own so there is really no chance of me doing it. Please inform us to anyone who does get it done!


how r u making progress? whats ur secret


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## 106473

Ray46 said:


> My dp was gone completely for some weeks but than came back a little. The problem is i had only one shot in the neck. For long lasting results you probaly have to do a second stellate ganglion block. But anyways im happier than never before!


Than before DP? how is like the emotional numbness? See for me, I don't really have the spaced out thing i'd call DP anymore, it's NUMB, blank, depressed and anxiety.. if you could answer some of that, i'd be grateful. (i know you have kinda, we love detail lol)

ALSO NEWSFLASH (sorry for updates but i'm getting on this) - Been emailing and a German Hospital is emailing me back next week, they said they are still trialling this for free, issue is, you got PTSD from drugs? - probably say don't fit the criteria. Might just lie? Only C6 but it's a way to get a C6 for free.

America seems the only place with C6 + C3 and C7 is something i've only seen Dr Eugene do in Chicago (all them videos) - I have his team to email me back with Cost without insurance and waiting lists...

I will be at least trying C6 by the end of the year somehow, somewhere

When they reply this German Hospital what would you say you got PTSD from? most things sound too out there to claim...


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## cl1max

> how r u making progress? whats ur secret


I have no secrets man. Got it stress/weed induced mostly, though I do have a history of trauma (car accident) and my parents fought with each other all through my childhood and I've read that's bad for the brain when growing up. So I attribute my "prone-ness" to that. At the end of the fall semester, I was drinking shit tons of caffeine and was on adderall all day and tbh looking back on thats when my downhill fall started. I was also drinking 4 lokos every other night too lol. I was never someone who drank coffee or took stims so I dont really know what got into me then.

Looking back on it now, I barely have memories of the actual life-ruining spiral and everything feels like a blur. I by no means am 100%, I'm more at like 70%+, and I know the worst is over. Im sure you all know what the worst is like, as you are living through it. The non stop spinning, thinking brain. Thinking of the worst things automatically with no control over it. And believing it too. Sometimes I still get "am i real" scares, but usually when Im driving. Looking through windshields and mirrors kinda fucks me up still, but its getting better. I try and drive as much as I can to tackle that "phobia."

I've just been doing my best to study during the semester while spiraling. I also gave myself time to indulge in the spiral and answer the ruminating questions, and even know if my mind wants to dissociate for a bit, I let it. Because I take it as whatever is happening right now is stressful on my brain and it needs a second to just gather and process, so if dissociating quick is needed then why not. Around April, the severity died down slightly. And in late April, I did coke and somehow my DR has mostly stopped. I dont think coke cured the DR though, it might've been coincidental timing. My DP is kind of weird though. Because I know myself, but this head pressure/fog keeps me very self conscious and keeps me thinking. I still have concentration issues, though.

I just eat healthy, workout and swim, and by being in school I was staying social. I am also in a fraternity which required me to do events with them. Ill admit I binge drank alot which kept me feeling incredibly anxious and feeling like shit.

I am sorry I couldn't have been of more help in terms of how I was getting over it. I followed the advice of many other recovery posts here especially the more recent ones + ManOnTheSilverMountains post. Time is a big healer as well. I'm playing video games again to help with the concentration, and I plan to pursue some reading because reading was hard during the worst of it.

I love this forum and I love you all, as we all go through this fight together. For some reason, Im addicted to thinking about DP and this forum (I dont really like the dpdr subreddit).

With love,

climax


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## TDX

> By the way stellate ganglion block is also used for tinnitus.


But it has been known for years that is doesn't work for it.


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## Jayvee23

Hello, I've been dealing with DP/DR for a month and man..it's hell. My anxiety and depression has magnified tremendously. It triggered after having a panic attack while smoking cannabis. I have to say I do feel like I am back in my body but everything still feels 2D and my memory is horrible. I can't visualize anything in my head and I'll forget what I was thinking or doing moments after. My OCD is bad and I feel it's making it worse. I'm curious to know if any of you think it would help I guess "forget" in a way and lead me on the right track to recovery. I don't even know where my mind is I don't feel here and I don't like it


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## Glidarn

Jayvee23 said:


> Hello, I've been dealing with DP/DR for a month and man..it's hell. My anxiety and depression has magnified tremendously. It triggered after having a panic attack while smoking cannabis. I have to say I do feel like I am back in my body but everything still feels 2D and my memory is horrible. I can't visualize anything in my head and I'll forget what I was thinking or doing moments after. My OCD is bad and I feel it's making it worse. I'm curious to know if any of you think it would help I guess "forget" in a way and lead me on the right track to recovery. I don't even know where my mind is I don't feel here and I don't like it


Im not the right person for this, but im pretty much in the same boat, (weed induced, had it for a year now) and latly it has gotten really bad so i'd REALLY suggest that you keep on doing your normal activities, stop ruminating about it even how tempting it is. Try to walk 1 hour everyday, try to socialise, pick up a new hobby, whatever you do dont isolate yourself, don't quit your job etc. Stay active, do even more than before this happend, maybe even move to a new place. I know this sounds extremly hard and impossible, and i havent even done it, but i know that if i could go back around a year in time i would defenantly had kept routines, stayd more active and tryed to work, i've done the opposite and it just makes it much worse!

A thing alot of people recommend is to speak up, tell your friends what you are going through, your parents aswell. A good thing would probably be to contact the hospital aswell and get someone you can talk to there and try to explain your symtoms abit more, the faster you try to get help the faster you can probably get it fixed. But if they want to give you medication don't just take whatever they throw at you, stay critical and communicate. Most likely they will think it's a depression and give you some bs ssri, i've read alot about them and i have tryed them but not much, but they seem to make people even more numb and remove empathy in many many cases witch is not a thing we want when we have dp/dr!

Get blood work done and stuff like that just to make sure nothing is wrong there.. Look up exercies about meditation, yoga, fast, training.

Since you are early into this i really suggest that you try to forget about this, witch i know is close to impossible, atleast to alot of us. But it seems to get alot worse and stay if we ruminate and think about it, witch makes sense, but it's so hard not to think about it since it litterly takes over your life. Accsept it and keep doing you, if you don't get better within x amount of time by trying alot of theese things, go to the doctor, ask for some pill that you have read up on and beilive could help, (check on this forum on treatment options etc and make your own conclusion).

Im tired and i kinda just typed what was on my mind, i hope it helps in atleast some small way, atleast your not alone!


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## oolongmonkey

Dp is a parasympathetic response. Thats why Im a bit confused. It's a numbing on all levels. I personallydont deal with much sympathetic responses I sleep all day, Im tired all day...


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## 106473

[Redacted] said:


> When they reply this German Hospital what would you say you got PTSD from? most things sound too out there to claim...


Sorry to quote myself but I am going to have these emails soon.

I'm not sure what to say when they ask how I got PTSD as it will be asked. I did do a PTSD score from a doctor who gave me the label, so that's not a problem but 'drugs' isn't going to cut it... least I don't think? what do you think?

I first got DP after a break up... but again reading PTSD says 'a divorce is not enough to cause PTSD'

I was thinking something a bit out there. Tell them about a car crash I was in (true but i was 8) and then went through health problems and a break up. I have had the label for a while and doctors are unsure of the cause... how does that sound? as I am sure you can have PTSD from younger years come out, I just think that would be a rare case.

I dunno some thoughts from different people would be great as I don't want to screw this up, especially as I have now tracked down Dr Lipov. So i expect a questionnaire soon, as this guy isn't likely to do them just because you have the money, he is a pro. Also German trials would involve a lot of questions as it is for research trial.

Although it probably isn't the first time Dr Lipov has heard of such triggers, might lower my chances but maybe tell the real story, which was Health Anxiety + Illness - Break Up (some DP) - Drug. Reading about drugs and PTSD an article says there is often a trauma pre drug trip and is a mix of the two at the time. This for me is exactly what happened.

Also as you know as soon as i get the price from Dr Lipov in America and more info on what Germany are offering, you will all be informed


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## XBrave

CK1 said:


> Sorry to quote myself but I am going to have these emails soon.
> 
> I'm not sure what to say when they ask how I got PTSD as it will be asked. I did do a PTSD score from a doctor who gave me the label, so that's not a problem but 'drugs' isn't going to cut it... least I don't think? what do you think?
> 
> I first got DP after a break up... but again reading PTSD says 'a divorce is not enough to cause PTSD'
> 
> I was thinking something a bit out there. Tell them about a car crash I was in (true but i was  and then went through health problems and a break up. I have had the label for a while and doctors are unsure of the cause... how does that sound? as I am sure you can have PTSD from younger years come out, I just think that would be a rare case.
> 
> I dunno some thoughts from different people would be great as I don't want to screw this up, especially as I have now tracked down Dr Lipov. So i expect a questionnaire soon, as this guy isn't likely to do them just because you have the money, he is a pro. Also German trials would involve a lot of questions as it is for research trial.
> 
> Although it probably isn't the first time Dr Lipov has heard of such triggers, might lower my chances but maybe tell the real story, which was Health Anxiety + Illness - Break Up (some DP) - Drug. Reading about drugs and PTSD an article says there is often a trauma pre drug trip and is a mix of the two at the time. This for me is exactly what happened.
> 
> Also as you know as soon as i get the price from Dr Lipov in America and more info on what Germany are offering, you will all be informed


Well you might add that you're suffering from chronic pain/ tightness and derealization (because of that car crash)


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## eddy1886

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I deleted the link to the US & German trials, as I realised they were the same trial & were dated 2015. Here it is again though: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder/Pages/clinical-trial.aspx?CT=0&Rec=1&Countries=All+Countries&Condition=Post-traumatic+stress+disorder%7estellate
> 
> I emailed an NHS hospital & asked them what SGB's are licensed for in the UK, & what they're allowed to do them for. I'm hoping Raynaud's is on the list as I probably have that. Got an appointment with my GP next week & gonna ask for a blood test for that. If I do have it, it might be a way to get a free SGB on the NHS. I think the trick here is to find out what conditions they offer them for in our country, & then hope we have one of them. That's my plan, & I'm going full steam ahead.


Constant updates please Auto !!!!!!!


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## 106473

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I deleted the link to the US & German trials, as I realised they were the same trial & were dated 2015. Here it is again though: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder/Pages/clinical-trial.aspx?CT=0&Rec=1&Countries=All+Countries&Condition=Post-traumatic+stress+disorder%7estellate
> 
> I emailed an NHS hospital & asked them what SGB's are licensed for in the UK, & what they're allowed to do them for


Exactly this, my first attempt is going in for headaches that my doctor knows about, it's listed as one of the most common reasons to get one, who can argue with a headache. (Free NHS C6, which Dr Lipov still is his go to) getting an appointment next week, fingers crossed.

Oh yes great link, I found that one. I found the Germany trial via googling and it turned up on Facebook of all places, which a lot of these centres are using. As i said when they get back to me, i'll keep everyone in the loop.

One thing of note NHS used a 'trial' says did not beat Placebo but did on 2 injections. YET Lamotrigine did not beat Placebo I read on trials yet helped people and I recal SSRI's only beat it by 18% on a trial for depression, don't quote me, it's just something I remember, so not all trials are even or in fact a representation of the truth. Dr Lipov as mention 75% his trial and 70% independent one to him. HMMMM. Very different.

I'm more leaning towards the fact MyPTSD forum had huge success and the other thing of note is, say you get two C6's, you might not have the problem you thought you had. Either way, lets do it and find out!


----------



## TDX

> Exactly this, my first attempt is going in for headaches that my doctor knows about, it's listed as one of the most common reasons to get one, who can argue with a headache. (Free NHS C6, which Dr Lipov still is his go to) getting an appointment next week, fingers crossed.


This is also what I would do. If you really want it then look if there is an indication for it that you also have. If there is none, choose one that cannot be objectified and fake it.



> One thing of note NHS used a 'trial' says did not beat Placebo but did on 2 injections. YET Lamotrigine did not beat Placebo I read on trials yet helped people and I recal SSRI's only beat it by 18% on a trial for depression, don't quote me, it's just something I remember, so not all trials are even or in fact a representation of the truth. Dr Lipov as mention 75% his trial and 70% independent one to him. HMMMM. Very different.
> 
> I'm more leaning towards the fact MyPTSD forum had huge success and the other thing of note is, say you get two C6's, you might not have the problem you thought you had. Either way, lets do it and find out!


I've just read the study and don't see where they say that it beat placebo following the second injection. Looking at the table also does not give me this impression. Generally PTSD appears in clinical trials to be plagued by a high placebo response.

But perhaps they somehow really screwed this study up, just like Sierra et al seem to have done with Lamotrigine. It would be interesting to see if it also works for other people on this forum. If additional people respond to it then it might be something worth to study for the treatment of depersonalization disorder.

Thus I appreciate if more people volunteer as guinea pigs. The only real problem seems to be that it does not seem to be cheap. This Lipov said in an interview that each procedure costs around 1000$.


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## 106473

TDX said:


> I've just read the study and don't see where they say that it beat placebo following the second injection. Looking at the table also does not give me this impression. Generally PTSD appears in clinical trials to be plagued by a high placebo response.
> 
> But perhaps they somehow really screwed this study up, just like Sierra et al seem to have done with Lamotrigine. It would be interesting to see if it also works for other people on this forum. If additional people respond to it then it might be something worth to study for the treatment of depersonalization disorder.
> 
> Thus I appreciate if more people volunteer as guinea pigs. The only real problem seems to be that it does not seem to be cheap. This Lipov said in an interview that each procedure costs around 1000$.


I was using my head to quote, never good (apologies). It's not the NHS but this study (top hit on google). The title is a joke, second did beat Placebo. Guessing its the same difficulty the NHS might have had.

http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ptsd-trauma-and-stressor-related/stellate-ganglion-block-fails-as-possible-ptsd-treatment/article/406455/

TBH, NHS studies don't impress me. My mums Vitamin B12 got taken away for MS because of an NHS recent study. Truth if you ask me in that case is they don't want to pay for 2 injections a week so come up with a study saying its no benefit, Mum said it was better for energy than any medication they offered. Also made it not available off licence for MS. Cost saving anyone? Rant over.

I dunno where you live TDX but that trial link has many countries, might open it up to members for free. Updated prices, been mentioned by me a few times, England £400-£1000 depending on what you tell them and Dr Lipov is $800 last I heard, this I am guessing will go up if he adds C3 and C7. Fingers crossed on my doctor (NHS).

Hopefully with a little patience we will have our own study for this

Oh i actually have something useful to add, found a friend who had it done today, just by chance, she was in my house and I mentioned it, she got it for headaches, I asked a few questions, she only had headaches no depression or anxiety etc but she said it took 2 injections to work. This is mentioned by Dr Lipov and in many trials like above. So everyone remember this.


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## davinizi

Interesting thread. I googled to see if there is a natural alternative. I found this study:

Efficacy of Noninvasive Stellate Ganglion Blockade Performed Using Physical Agent Modalities in Patients with Sympathetic Hyperactivity-Associated Disorders: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

Not sure if this article has been posted already..



> Although not specifically SGB, similar techniques of lesioning the sympathetic chain has been reported widely as a potential treatment for social phobia.24-26





> In the case of social phobia, the mechanism is presumably because the techniques prevent blushing. For patients with both blushing and social phobia, sympathectomy proved as good as or better than sertraline in improving anxiety.27 Taken together, the evidence suggests that techniques that influence the peripheral sympathetic nervous system could potentially be used to treat psychiatric conditions.





> Cumulatively, the growing body of preliminary evidence about the potential therapeutic benefits of SGB for PTSD is compelling. Starting in 2008, a series of case reports were published in which SGB relieved symptoms of PTSD, even when co-occurring pain was not present among patients in a private clinic practice.29-31 The effect was usually immediate and often dramatic. SGB appeared to produce some form of a "calming effect" that primarily impacted symptoms associated with avoidance and hyperarousal. However, to experience sustained symptom relief, patients often required at least two SGB injections over a short follow-up period (< 30 days).31 In some cases, radiofrequency ablation of the SG was needed to prolong the duration of benefit.30





> Similar clinical observation of improved PTSD symptoms after SGB was reported by other researchers in cases of combat-related PTSD at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.32 Early or sub-threshold PTSD often spontaneously resolves, thus a placebo effect may be suspected. However, investigators at Naval Medical Center San Diego (NMCSD) observed comparable improvements in a case series of active duty service members for whom the diagnosis of PTSD was confirmed by structured interviews.33 All of those patients had chronic PTSD subsequent to failed responses to evidence-based treatments. The improvements reported in the case series at NMCSD were not universal, and PTSD symptoms often resurfaced within 1 month of SGB treatment. This finding was inconsistent with earlier reports in which PTSD symptom improvements lasted at least many months and resulted in full remission.29-32





> Possible Mechanisms of Action
> 
> The specific mechanisms responsible for the actions of local anesthetics on the SG have yet to be fully elucidated. Regarding its effect on PTSD, SGB might best be considered within the broader framework of the neural network connecting several cortical regions that regulate the formation of memory, cognition, and behaviors. This complex interaction involves numerous neurochemicals, including corticotropin-releasing hormone, cortisol, the locus coeruleus-norepinephrine system, neuropeptide Y, galanin, dopamine, serotonin, testosterone, estrogen, and dehydroepian-drosterone (DHEA).35,36
> 
> An extensive network of noradrenergic terminals project from the locus coeruleus and cell groups in the medulla and pons to innervate the entire neuraxis from the olfactory bulb to spinal cord, visceral organs, and integument. This widespread organization allows the noradrenergic system, by means of both central connections and peripheral sympathetic nervous system to influence the entire nervous system under conditions of elevated levels of norepinephrine (NE).37
> 
> Some investigators have proposed that SGB may influence PTSD via connections that exist between the SG and insular cortex and other intracerebral structures.30 Yet other researchers have focused on the extensive transneuronal labeling in sympathetic related regions of the cerebral cortex with viral tracing methods after injecting the adrenal gland, SG, and celiac ganglion.38 The cortical areas labeled included the extended amygdaloid complex, lateral septum, insular and ventromedial temporal cortical regions, and deep temporal lobe structures. Alternative theorized explanations suggest that the overall mechanism of SGB involves changes in melatonin rhythm and sleep.39
> 
> An overall decrease in sympathetic tone also might be involved in improving PTSD symptoms. SGB is known to result in decreased levels of circulating noradrenalin, and although this neurotransmitter does not freely cross the blood-brain barrier, it is postulated that decreased peripheral nonadrenaline represents reduction of central non-adrenaline levels due to a shared nucleus controlling both systems.
> 
> SGB can also reduce the expression of peptides, such as nerve growth factor (NGF), that play a role in maintaining the perpetual hyperarousal state.40 NGF encourages sprouting of sympathetic neurons in the brain, and is able to cross the blood-brain barrier41 where it has a number of complex interactions with the brain-body communications in stress regulation.42
> 
> The reduction of NGF by SGB removes the necessary peptide for maintenance of PTSD, reverting intracerebral sympathetic nerves to a pretrauma state. Similar, downstream mechanisms might explain why the apparent benefit of SGB lasts long beyond the direct period when the anesthetic is slowing nerve conduction.


I wonder if a deep targeted massage would help (enough) to achieve the same results ? Or maybe try one of those patches you can put on muscles to exercise (the lazy way) in that area of the neck, but might be difficult to reach the specific spot..or what about a numbing cream, would that help as well?


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## davinizi

Another interesting article on neural therapy:



> Neural Therapy was originally developed in Germany by the Huneke brothers. It involves the injection of Procaine (also known as Novocain), a common local anesthetic, into various but very specific areas. Neural Therapy is based on the theory that trauma can produce long-standing disturbances in the electrochemical function of tissues. Among the types of tissues affected by trauma include scars, nerves or a cluster of nerves called ganglions. A correctly administered Neural Therapy injection can often instantly and lastingly resolve chronic long standing illness and chronic pain.





> Modern Neural Therapy owes its discovery to an accident in 1925, observed and interpreted by two physicians, Ferdinand and Walter Huneke. They had for years attempted in vain to help their sister, who often suffered severe migraine attacks. During one particularly violent attack, Ferdinand injected his sister intravenously with what he thought was a remedy for rheumatism. While he was still administering the injection, the blinding migraine headache simply vanished, together with the flashing sensation in front of her eyes, dizziness, nausea and depression. Her headaches never recurred! After witnessing this miraculous recovery, Ferdinand and Walter realized their sister's intravenous injection actually contained Procaine. After much further experimentation, it became clear that it was Procaine alone that had produced the startling cure, and therefore Procaine could also be used as a treatment remedy, as well as a local anesthetic.





> A German neurophysiologist, Albert Fleckenstein, demonstrated that the cells in scar tissue have a different membrane potential from normal body cells, functioning much like a 1.5 volt battery implanted into the body. Whenever a cell has lost its normal membrane potential, ion pumps in the cell wall stop working. This means that abnormal minerals and toxic substances accumulate inside the cell. As a result, the cell loses the ability to heal itself and resume normal functioning. Procaine acts on the cell wall to allow the ion pumps to resume normal action and restore the membrane potential. This is how Procaine and other agents used in Neural Therapy correct the bioelectric disturbance at a specific site or nerve ganglion. By reestablishing the normal electrical condition of cells and nerves, the disturbed functions are also restored to normality, and the patient returns to health as far as this is anatomically still possible. The amazing part of Neural Therapy is that the site being treated can be very far away for the tissue in the body that is not functioning properly. For example, a scar on the chin can affect the low back. This is possible because of the vast network of nerves called the Autonomic Nervous System.





> ..one has to understand that the autonomic nervous system is made up of two divisions. One division is the sympathetic nervous system that is activated by stress. It speeds up your heart rate, makes you burn sugar more rapidly, tenses your muscles, and in general increases your ability to "fight or flight." The other division of the autonomic nervous system is the parasympathetic nervous system. Its job is to promote healing, digestion, repair etc. It slows your heart rate down, increases mucus and digestion, etc.
Click to expand...




A key feature of the sympathetic nervous system is that it links all of the cells of the body together, regulates the contraction and expansion of blood vessels, regulates the activity of the connective tissue necessary for regenerating body systems, and it regulates the voltage (membrane potential) across the cell wall in every cell in the body. While either the parasympathetic or sympathetic nervous system could be overly dominant and lead to symptoms, most people are stuck in an overly reactive sympathetic state. In other words, the healing mechanism is impaired or "interfered with."


 


 
 
 



> _Are there any alternatives to giving injections?_
> 
> Neural Therapy can also be accomplished using an ElectroBloc or special lasers. We do not use the laser yet in this office because the devices used have not been FDA-approved. The *ElectroBloc* is powerful "Tens" like unit for treating deeper structures (example - your pelvis and neck) where a needle might be more dangerous or provoke anxiety. Our office, like other doctors using Neural Therapy, has seen very good results using the ElectroBloc. In some situations it works better than the injections, but in other situations it is not as beneficial as injections.


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## cl1max

Wow. What are the chances your friend gets the same treatment we are hyping up lol. What a coincidence. Did it alleviate her headaches completely after the second one?


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## davinizi

copy paste from this study :

Influences of stellate ganglion block and near-infrared irradiation around stellate ganglion on the activity of brain cell

In this study, it was investigated whether stellate ganglion block(SGB)or several doses of linearly near-infrared irradiation around stellate ganglion(SGR)had some influences on brain cell activity in frontal cortex 30 mm after treatment.Brain waves were measured and performed Fourier transform. Then, we tried to examine changes of 90% spectral edge frequency(SEF90), spectral median frequency(SMF)and relative power of brain waves following treatment.
In the SGB, relative power of fast activity, SEF90 values and SMF values were increased 15 min after SGB on the unblocked side and increased between 20 mm and 30 mm by degrees on the blocked side.In the SGR groups between 90 J/cm^2 and 180 J/cm^2, relative power of fast activity, SEF90 values and SMF values increased on bilateral sides.Therefore, it was suggested that both SGB and these doses of SGR activated brain cells.Especially, relative power of theta-wave increased in the dose of 90 J/cm^2 SGR group more than in SGB group.On the other hand, in 360 J/cm^2 SGR group relative power of fast activity, SEF90 values and SMF values were decreased.It was suggested that 360 J/cm^2 SGR had sedative action on brain cell activity as compared with 90-180 J/cm^2 SGR.
*It was concluded that 90-180 J/cm^2 SGR had the same stimulatory action as SGB*.This SGR treatment is non-invasive for patients and 90-180 J/cm^2 SGR will be applied for the treatment of brain activation in the near friture.In addition, there is a possibility that 360 J/cm^2 SGR will suppress hyperexcitability of brain cells and then normalize them.

I actually have an infrared light that you can apply directly onto the skin which I just did for a while on the place where that stellate ganglion is supposed to be ; although from pictures on google it's not always clear whether it's more on the neck or just below around the collar bone. Anyways, I have the impression that I feel more happy/relaxed unless there is some other reason going on, I'm going to try it again tomorrow to see if it creates the same effects  .


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## M1k3y

went to 2 of my doctors to ask about this, both of em heard about it but not for anxiety or anything, both kinda made me feel dumb asking to have it, idk its still an option, but im on another med thats suppose to help, anywho id force my doctor to give me this shot, its my option b, if it comes to it, i will get it

option a is to try out this adderall, i read a post were this guy was a guenie pig for 5 years and he said adderall was his cure, i pray itll be mine


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## 106473

Great research above Davinizi - just confirms why I want 2 even more. I don't think the 30 day rule is hard and fast from my research but in an ideal world!



cl1max said:


> Wow. What are the chances your friend gets the same treatment we are hyping up lol. What a coincidence. Did it alleviate her headaches completely after the second one?


The chances are actually pretty high Cl1max. It's not an uncommon procedure, but the chances of her when she is one of 4 people outside this I've mentioned it to, was indeed. I think it alleviated her headaches for a while, but she had them from giving birth, so it was used as a pain blocker, not really as a cure to anything. Which for headaches is all it seems to be. Giving birth can send a Woman's hormones crazy for a while as I am sure some Fathers know lol



Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Two injections in the same place (C6), or two at different sites?


 Yes same side. Didn't ask which as I know Dr Lipov does the right.



M1k3y said:


> went to 2 of my doctors to ask about this, both of em heard about it but not for anxiety or anything, both kinda made me feel dumb asking to have it, idk its still an option, but im on another med thats suppose to help, anywho id force my doctor to give me this shot, its my option b, if it comes to it, i will get it
> 
> option a is to try out this adderall, i read a post were this guy was a guenie pig for 5 years and he said adderall was his cure, i pray itll be mine


Thing I do is make them sound dumb for not keeping up research. A good response is, "oh have you not read the trials?" as we said, some of us are gonna go in with a headache approach, then PTSD approach, then private.

Adderall is in my top 4 list ATM! Yep read the story, shared it on many threads, it's a real don't give up story. It's a very short acting medication, should see what it does for you quickly. I'm on a 2 year waiting list... anyway lets not get this thread too distracted, I'm gonna PM you, got a couple questions


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## Ray46

oolongmonkey said:


> Dp is a parasympathetic response. Thats why Im a bit confused. It's a numbing on all levels. I personallydont deal with much sympathetic responses I sleep all day, Im tired all day...


Actually deperszonalisation is a common symtom of an overactive sympatthetic nervous system. That's why things which ramps up the sympathetic nervous system like caffeine or drugs can make your dp worse.


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## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Two injections in the same place (C6), or two at different sites?


Nono not at the same place, at C6 and C3 and if this doesnt work even at C7 like the guy in this video:


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## 106473

Ray46 said:


> Nono not at the same place, at C6 and C3 and if this doesnt work even at C7 like the guy in this video:


He was talking about the fact sometimes it takes 2 times(as you said). We were talking about my friend who had a C6 twice.

Did you have a C3? or just C6?

EDIT: read the thread again, you just had C6. Apart from America this C3 seems a bit illusive


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## Riekas

CK1 has been getting me pretty hyped up about this.

I'm in America. Yesterday, I called up a pain clinic near me and asked if they do SGB for people with dissociative disorders. They got back to me saying yes, and then automatically started setting me up with a consultation appointment. It was as easy as that. Didn't ask for any doctors referrals or anything. Because of my work schedule, I wasn't able to get an appointment until June 26th. Again, this will just be a consultation appointment, so there's still a chance they may not give it to me, but it seems to be going smooth enough so far.


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## Ray46

CK1 said:


> He was talking about the fact sometimes it takes 2 times(as you said). We were talking about my friend who had a C6 twice.
> Did you have a C3? or just C6?
> 
> EDIT: read the thread again, you just had C6. Apart from America this C3 seems a bit illusive


Ah okay i see lol, i only had a C6. Im lucky that i responded so well only after one injection


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## davinizi

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The infrared light & ElectroBloc sound like something I'd try before an injection, as there's likely to be less to no side effects. Interesting stuff.


I've also read from studies that they can use electro-stimulation or pulsed radiofrequency. Here's a quote from a case with someone with PTSD, it didn't give permanent results though. I wonder if regular acupuncture or accupressure would help as much too..

*The day after the pulsed radiofrequency treatment the patient reported that he felt absolutely no anxiety but these returned, necessitating further radiofrequency treatments to block the stellate ganglion (the sympathetic nerves). The end result was that the patient did experience long periods where his anxiety was manageable, although it was not a permanent cure it should be recognised that PTSD is a complex condition and that it may well take several treatments to successfully reduce levels of anxiety.*

The electrobloc comes from neural therapy which is more in the alternative field and they can also use procaine injections combined with bee venom. 

Depression and chronic fatigue(segmental therapy to scars, skull, thyroid and adrenal area) is said to be helped with that, so DP could potentially be cured or improved with this therapy too I think.


----------



## XBrave

Riekas said:


> CK1 has been getting me pretty hyped up about this.
> 
> I'm in America. Yesterday, I called up a pain clinic near me and asked if they do SGB for people with dissociative disorders. They got back to me saying yes, and then automatically started setting me up with a consultation appointment. It was as easy as that. Didn't ask for any doctors referrals or anything. Because of my work schedule, I wasn't able to get an appointment until June 26th. Again, this will just be a consultation appointment, so there's still a chance they may not give it to me, but it seems to be going smooth enough so far.


this is great ! please update. we need information!

I think this SGB is not a globally standardized medicine for psychological disorders. It is mainly used for pain.


----------



## London

Riekas said:


> CK1 has been getting me pretty hyped up about this.
> 
> I'm in America. Yesterday, I called up a pain clinic near me and asked if they do SGB for people with dissociative disorders. They got back to me saying yes, and then automatically started setting me up with a consultation appointment. It was as easy as that. Didn't ask for any doctors referrals or anything. Because of my work schedule, I wasn't able to get an appointment until June 26th. Again, this will just be a consultation appointment, so there's still a chance they may not give it to me, but it seems to be going smooth enough so far.


KEEP US POSTED !!


----------



## davinizi

Not sure if this interview with Dr Eugene Lipov has been posted before. It is him who had discovered that SGB helps people with PTSD.

Most interesting part I found from 11 minutes on where he explains why a local anesthetic that only numbs the injected spot for 8 hours can have permanent effect in the case of PTSD.

He thinks first of all that the term should be changed to PTSI (I stands for Injury) because after a trauma an injury has occurred and there is a biological change in the brain where a specific type of substance (NGF ?) comes out of the brain and it makes sympathetic (fight and flight) nerves grow extra long which produces norepinephrine or adrenaline. This makes a (severely) traumatized person create more adrenaline in their brain and nervous system. And as long as that persists, people have these trauma symptoms. When a local anesthetic is given in the ganglia of the neck (a bunch of nerves connected to the fight and flight system), those extra nerve fibres (created by the trauma) die off and then norepinephrine goes back to its normal state. That's the mechanism according to him as to why this has a longterm effect and now he also believes it changes the DNA structure of the nerves.


----------



## cl1max

It was said in a youtube clip from "The Doctors" tv show posted earlier in the thread. Im sure many people will appreciate the TLDR though


----------



## Riekas

Yep, I will definitely be keeping everyone updated! Sorry it will be a few weeks.

I feel like we definitely need more data on SGB and DP after reading this post. I figure whether it helps me or not, it will still be useful data.


----------



## jessfrance

Hi Ray46,

hope you get my message. Can you tell me where in switzerland you got this injection? In which canton do you live? I am ready to do anything to get rid of that shit. how much does it cost? if anyone knows aan other in europe where we can get this, please let me know. in France there is no treatment similar to this.

thanks in advance everyone and wish you lost of luck to fight that shit.

have a great week


----------



## 106473

jessfrance said:


> Hi Ray46,
> 
> hope you get my message. Can you tell me where in switzerland you got this injection? In which canton do you live? I am ready to do anything to get rid of that shit. how much does it cost? if anyone knows aan other in europe where we can get this, please let me know. in France there is no treatment similar to this.
> 
> thanks in advance everyone and wish you lost of luck to fight that shit.
> 
> have a great week


Your English is good.

NHS (UK) have a website as linked to previously on this thread where trials are taking place.

You can see the counties and change it, but that link below shows results for France.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder/Pages/Clinical-trial.aspx?Condition=Post-traumatic+stress+disorder&Countries=France&CT=0&Rec=1

France has 13 places (that is a lot, i've checked a few countries).

Even if you don't go on a 'PTSD trial' some clinics should be offering this already and just want data for PTSD. As mentioned you can get this for 'headaches' if the PTSD route doesn't work.

(Not sure if these will be private or not, I don't know your medical system)

Also i'm not getting many hits but that's because of the way google works, I don't get French hits, but a quick scan of a few forums and people have had it in France. Your doctor will know what this treatment is (SGB). You could try googling this 'Stellate Ganglion Block France Forum' and things like that, should find somewhere.

As for other countries, I haven't looked that hard but Germany does it, so does many countries a small flight away but I don't think you will need to fly anywhere in the end. 14 trials and UK have none, so good chance and I still found somewhere that offers it in England for PTSD.


----------



## Glud

Hey!

Great to hear about this possible treatment!.

I have been searching around, but unfortunately i am unable to find anything about this in Denmark.


----------



## XBrave

I really wish OP updates this thread. so currently there are 4 of us who are going to do SGB.

Ray46, CK1, Riekas and ASM. (if they allow you to do so)

I'm waiting to hear from you guys. If it only helps 2 of you, it still will be a great new weapon in treatment of DPDR.


----------



## mrt

I'm also a possible SGBer


----------



## 106473

We are going to have to create a table.

C6 / C6 + C3 / C6 + C3 & C7

And the amount of times. 1, 2, 3, more than 3

Very easy to make. MAYBE a good idea to do this DP test before and after

https://www.docdroid.net/zIAJlG7/cds-state.pdf.html

Just an idea. That way you can make the before into a percentage (result divided by 2,200 x100) and work out the difference before and after?

Also might need to do a 6 month check up on that score too. I think it would be useful. THOUGHTS?

PS I know someone doing it the end of this month who will be updating us not mentioned on the topic, for privacy sake, I shall leave that person anonymous.


----------



## jessfrance

CK1 said:


> Your English is good.
> 
> NHS (UK) have a website as linked to previously on this thread where trials are taking place.
> 
> You can see the counties and change it, but that link below shows results for France.
> 
> http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Post-traumatic-stress-disorder/Pages/Clinical-trial.aspx?Condition=Post-traumatic+stress+disorder&Countries=France&CT=0&Rec=1
> 
> France has 13 places (that is a lot, i've checked a few countries).
> 
> Even if you don't go on a 'PTSD trial' some clinics should be offering this already and just want data for PTSD. As mentioned you can get this for 'headaches' if the PTSD route doesn't work.
> 
> (Not sure if these will be private or not, I don't know your medical system)
> 
> Also i'm not getting many hits but that's because of the way google works, I don't get French hits, but a quick scan of a few forums and people have had it in France. Your doctor will know what this treatment is (SGB). You could try googling this 'Stellate Ganglion Block France Forum' and things like that, should find somewhere.
> 
> As for other countries, I haven't looked that hard but Germany does it, so does many countries a small flight away but I don't think you will need to fly anywhere in the end. 14 trials and UK have none, so good chance and I still found somewhere that offers it in England for PTSD.


Hi,

thank you for your message and useful info. The link of the website is pretty interesting.

I have checked the different research that are ongoing. They deal with post traumatic disorder, anxiety... but they do not the injection that are mentionned in this topic.

I think those kind of things of completely forbidden in France. I am aware of the fact that in some countries drugs are to cure some disease but in France this this still a hot topic.

Could you please give the address of the place you plan to go in the UK? Is this for a research study or is that done by a normal doctor? how much is it?

I am ready to come next week ! I just can t deal with that anymore. is it in a serious place?

thanks in advance,

I wish you all a great we,


----------



## jessfrance

Ray46 said:


> Hi guys, here's my story!
> 
> Sorry for my English I'm from Switzerland
> 
> I got depersonalization disorder when I was around 20 I'm 21 now. It was brought on by an anxiety attack after I smoked weed.
> I have spent 8 month living with it. It was the most awful terrifying experience I have ever encounted. I was convinced I was losing my mind, slipping away into an irreversible insanity. I had forgetfulness, memory problems, poor concentration, permanent brain fog and emotional numbness. The only feeling I had was anxiety...
> 
> I told it to my doctor and he diagnosed me with depersonalization disorder, PTSD, OCD and depression.
> He pescribed me Escitalopram 10mg and Mitrazapin 7.5 mg (for insominia)
> 
> The Mitrazapin really helped me to fall asleep at night and the Escitalopram helped a little with my depression.
> However, the depersonalization and anxiety were still there...
> 
> 8 months after i got depersonalization, I did hurt my shoulder joint while working out in the gym. I went to the hospital and they gave me a so-called stellate ganglion block. They said a stellate ganglion block (symphatetic block) is an injection of local anesthetic into the front of the neck. Blocking the symphatetic activity by anesthetizing the stellate ganglion may stop the pain.
> 
> I never heard of this procedure before and of course i worried about it. I mean who likes a needle in his neck?? However, the pain in my shoulder joint was so heavy that i was willing to do it.
> 
> First they gave me an IV. They said the IV is standard in case they needed to give me medicine if i began to panic. Then the doctor put a needle in my neck and injected Lidocane to numb the area then injected the solution at the C6 vertebra, on the right side of the neck. The whole procedure only took about 10 minutes and didn't hurt at all.
> 
> (Here is a video where you can see how it's performed)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was put in a "recovery" area and left sitting for a moment. I began to notice something odd: the muscles in my legs were relaxing. Shortly after I began to feel an indescribable calmness. The more time passed the better I was feeling. I thougt what the hell just happend?! I coudln't belive it! My cloudy mind became clear!! My mind didn't feel seperated from my body anymore and my hopelessness and anxiety were gone and that only some minutes after the block! I was so happy that i told it to the doctor who did the procedure and asked him if this calmness is a side effect of the stellate ganglion block. He said no not really which confused me lol.
> 
> When I was at home I immediately googled " stellate ganglion block depersonalization" and "stellate ganglion block anxiety". I found this study:
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365
> 
> In this study 30 active military service members with combat-related PTSD were offered a stellate ganglion block as part of their treatment program. Patients reported greatest improvement in the first week after SGB for the following symptoms:
> 
> irritability or angry outbursts
> difficulty concentrating
> sleep disturbance
> 
> 2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:
> 
> feeling distant or cut off
> feeling emotionally numb
> irritability or angry outbursts
> difficulty concentrating
> 
> It is hypothesized that trauma leads to an increase in nerve growth factor in the stellate ganglion. This in turn leads to a sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which increases the production of a number of neurotransmitters, including adrenaline and norepinephrine, which makes people anxious. Stellate ganglion block leads to a reduction in nerve growth factor and sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which helps reverse trauma/anxiety symptoms.
> 
> Here is the mechanism explainted in detail:
> 
> http://assets.cureus.com/uploads/poster/file/717/PTSD_SGB_Poster.pdf
> 
> Now it's three months since my stellate ganglion block and I'm still feeling great! The depersonalization/brain fog and the anxiety didn't return. I also dont feel depressed anymore! I know it's hard to belive that a single shot in the neck can change the mental state so dramatically.
> 
> Guys, the last thing i wanna do is to raise false hopes but this procedure helped me very much! If my anxiety and brain fog will return I will probably do a second shot. I really belive that deperszonalisation is a post-traumatic stress symtom which can be reduced or even go away with a stellate ganglion block.
> 
> Here is some other stuff about stellate ganglion block and PTSD:


Hi Ray,

thank you for sharing this with us.

can you tell us where in switzerland you had this? which city?

thanks and have a nice we


----------



## Ray46

Here is the newest article about the stellate ganglion block for ptsd:

http://www.abc10.com/news/local/a-shot-that-could-cure-ptsd/443245816


----------



## 106473

jessfrance said:


> Hi,
> 
> thank you for your message and useful info. The link of the website is pretty interesting.
> 
> I have checked the different research that are ongoing. They deal with post traumatic disorder, anxiety... but they do not the injection that are mentionned in this topic.
> 
> I think those kind of things of completely forbidden in France. I am aware of the fact that in some countries drugs are to cure some disease but in France this this still a hot topic.
> 
> Could you please give the address of the place you plan to go in the UK? Is this for a research study or is that done by a normal doctor? how much is it?
> 
> I am ready to come next week ! I just can t deal with that anymore. is it in a serious place?
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> I wish you all a great we,


I am certain that if it's on that link it's for the C6 jab i.e. the SGB.

But yes in the UK there are many options:

Option A ) Lie and say you have chronic head pain and ask if they will do it for you. £400 Consultation and Procedure (C6)

Option B ) EXPENSIVE but the exact same thing but for PTSD is available at Bristol with Consultation and Procedure it costs £1,100 (C6)

http://www.painspa.co.uk/procedures/stellate-ganglion-block/

It's a new research thing for PTSD but for headaches and many other things it is used in many countries including England for Headaches etc.

If i have missed anything, give me a shout back


----------



## cl1max

Ray46 said:


> I was put in a "recovery" area and left sitting for a moment. I began to notice something odd: the muscles in my legs were relaxing. Shortly after I began to feel an indescribable calmness. The more time passed the better I was feeling. I thougt what the hell just happend?! I coudln't belive it! My cloudy mind became clear!! My mind didn't feel seperated from my body anymore and my hopelessness and anxiety were gone and that only some minutes after the block! I was so happy that i told it to the doctor who did the procedure and asked him if this calmness is a side effect of the stellate ganglion block. He said no not really which confused me lol.


My only question is:

You said you that your cloudy mind became clear, but later go on to state that the dp comes back sometimes. But do you still have clarity of mind? I dont give a fuck about dp except for this symptom and if this symptom is relieved continuously I will actually pursue this treatment.

Thanks.


----------



## Ray46

cl1max said:


> My only question is:
> 
> You said you that your cloudy mind became clear, but later go on to state that the dp comes back sometimes. But do you still have clarity of mind? I dont give a fuck about dp except for this symptom and if this symptom is relieved continuously I will actually pursue this treatment.
> 
> Thanks.


Yess i have this clarity of mind most of the time. Before my thougts were racing but now my mind is calm.


----------



## Ray46

Hey guys I have a question for you:

There is a study from 2003 which I think explains why my depersonalization became so much better

Basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder.

Simeon D, et al. Psychiatry Res. 2003.
Show full citation

Abstract
In contrast to the noradrenergic dysregulation described in PTSD, little is known regarding noradrenergic function in dissociative disorders. The purpose of this preliminary study was to investigate basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder (DPD). Nine subjects with DSM-IV DPD, without lifetime PTSD, were compared to nine healthy comparison (HC) subjects. Norepinephrine was measured via 24-h urine collection and three serial plasma determinations. Groups did not differ significantly in plasma norepinephrine levels. Compared to the HC group, the DPD group demonstrated significantly higher urinary norepinephrine, only prior to covarying for anxiety. The DPD group also demonstrated a highly significant inverse correlation between urinary norepinephrine and depersonalization severity (r=-0.88). Norepinephrine and cortisol levels (reported in a prior study) were not intercorrelated. We concluded that although dissociation accompanied by anxiety was associated with heightened noradrenergic tone, there was a marked basal norepinephrine decline with increasing severity of dissociation. The findings are in concordance with the few reports on autonomic blunting in dissociation and merit further investigation.

PMID 14572626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text

This study says that patients with depersonalization have a higher production of norephineprine doesn't it??

So basically the stellate ganglion block BLOCKS the production of it thats why I feel so much better I think.


----------



## jessfrance

CK1 said:


> I am certain that if it's on that link it's for the C6 jab i.e. the SGB.
> 
> But yes in the UK there are many options:
> 
> Option A) Lie and say you have chronic head pain and ask if they will do it for you. £400 Consultation and Procedure (C6)
> 
> Option B) EXPENSIVE but the exact same thing but for PTSD is available at Bristol with Consultation and Procedure it costs £1,100 (C6)
> 
> It's a new research thing for PTSD but for headaches and many other things it is used in many countries including England for Headaches etc.
> 
> If i have missed anything, give me a shout back


Hi,

I was wondering if this the place you told me about in bristol : http://www.painspa.co.uk/procedures/stellate-ganglion-block/

do you know if this is a serious place? is it part of a hospital? do you know how long you need to stay there?

Are you gonna do the first option? where is it?

I do not find any similar thing in France, I mean with those injections. I found an other method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulationI tired it last year but does not do anything on me. I know it works for some people.

have a great week end,

many thanks in advance


----------



## jessfrance

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys I have a question for you:
> 
> There is a study from 2003 which I think explains why my depersonalization became so much better
> 
> Basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder.
> 
> Simeon D, et al. Psychiatry Res. 2003.
> Show full citation
> 
> Abstract
> In contrast to the noradrenergic dysregulation described in PTSD, little is known regarding noradrenergic function in dissociative disorders. The purpose of this preliminary study was to investigate basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder (DPD). Nine subjects with DSM-IV DPD, without lifetime PTSD, were compared to nine healthy comparison (HC) subjects. Norepinephrine was measured via 24-h urine collection and three serial plasma determinations. Groups did not differ significantly in plasma norepinephrine levels. Compared to the HC group, the DPD group demonstrated significantly higher urinary norepinephrine, only prior to covarying for anxiety. The DPD group also demonstrated a highly significant inverse correlation between urinary norepinephrine and depersonalization severity (r=-0.88). Norepinephrine and cortisol levels (reported in a prior study) were not intercorrelated. We concluded that although dissociation accompanied by anxiety was associated with heightened noradrenergic tone, there was a marked basal norepinephrine decline with increasing severity of dissociation. The findings are in concordance with the few reports on autonomic blunting in dissociation and merit further investigation.
> 
> PMID 14572626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> Full text
> 
> This study says that patients with depersonalization have a higher production of norephineprine doesn't it??
> 
> So basically the stellate ganglion block BLOCKS the production of it thats why I feel so much better I think.


where in switzerland did you get this? i asked you this question in a previous post. thanks for your help. I would like to do it as well. As I live close to switzerland it would be much easier than going to the uk. thanks in advance


----------



## 106473

jessfrance said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering if this the place you told me about in bristol : http://www.painspa.co.uk/procedures/stellate-ganglion-block/
> 
> do you know if this is a serious place? is it part of a hospital? do you know how long you need to stay there?
> 
> Are you gonna do the first option? where is it?
> 
> I do not find any similar thing in France, I mean with those injections. I found an other method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulationI tired it last year but does not do anything on me. I know it works for some people.
> 
> have a great week end,
> 
> many thanks in advance


Hey Jess,

There are other places in the UK just not for PTSD far cheaper, the 'headache' plan might work for, but Bristol saying as you asked, yes is a serious place, in the UK we have strict guidelines, it's no backstreet ally. Especially considering it's twice the price for the same C6 these headache clinics offer.

It's a private pain clinic (small hospital if you want to think of it like that) - You need a consultation at Brisol (30 minutes I think) and the procedure can be done on the same day, it doesn't take long either. No you don't stay there. A member is getting it done in Bristol at the end of the month so he should have all the answers, I've just talked to them on the phone.

I am going to see if I can get it done for free on the NHS for headaches. Then I might consider ringing pain clinics if my doctor won't send me and see if they will do it for £400 range, before I go all out for £1,100 at Bristol.

Yeah I know about TMS, this is very different.

Any more questions feel free to ask but I think by the end of the month we should know more...


----------



## Ray46

jessfrance said:


> where in switzerland did you get this? i asked you this question in a previous post. thanks for your help. I would like to do it as well. As I live close to switzerland it would be much easier than going to the uk. thanks in advance


I dont wanna say it cause its near my home. You can do it in France too!


----------



## mrt

Ray46 said:


> .....
> 
> This study says that patients with depersonalization have a higher production of norephineprine doesn't it??
> 
> So basically the stellate ganglion block BLOCKS the production of it thats why I feel so much better I think.


Interesting. I looked up some norephineprine antagonists

(found...

Clonidine

Prazosin 
Terazosin
Atenolol
Metoprolol

Propanolol)

Some of which have been used as treatments for anxiety and PTSD. Unfortunately, going by forum searches none of which have really proved successful with DP/DR. Its back to SGB again then!


----------



## jessfrance

Ray46 said:


> I dont wanna say it cause its near my home. You can do it in France too!


there is Nothing similar in France. we have different methods but not the SGB. I have tried all the other ones but do not work on me

could you just give the name of the hospital in PM, I will not come ring at your door, I promise  just want to get rid of that shit


----------



## 106473

NHS have never replied to an email i've ever sent, I say ring them


----------



## Leah87

Amazing! Can I add you as friend on WhatsApp? Please ????????


----------



## ralex

I came across this thread from a crosspost on reddit and was encouraged enough to book an appointment with Dr. Lipov in Chicago. I'm in Canada but the doctors who perform that procedure here weren't keen on doing it for this off-label use - too bad considering it would have been covered by MSP  The cost for me was $1500 USD and that includes multiple injections at the different spine locations if necessary.

My appointment is on June 23rd, and I'll gladly come back on in 10 days to update people as to how it went. I've long suffered depersonalization/derealization after a pretty traumatic childhood with an alcoholic mother/absent father so I'm pretty excited to see how this works out for me and for everyone else who's considering it as well.


----------



## cl1max

ralex said:


> My appointment is on June 23rd, and I'll gladly come back on in 10 days to update people as to how it went. I've long suffered depersonalization/derealization after a pretty traumatic childhood with an alcoholic mother/absent father so I'm pretty excited to see how this works out for me and for everyone else who's considering it as well.


 Wow im actually really excited. I think youll be the first one after the OP to report how it made you feel!!!


----------



## mrt

ralex said:


> I came across this thread from a crosspost on reddit and was encouraged enough to book an appointment with Dr. Lipov in Chicago...


Thanks for letting us know, and I hope it helps! Good luck.


----------



## cl1max

Does anyone else have a scheduled appointment yet?

Just curious


----------



## 106473

I know 2 members, one said he will post here end of the month another will have an update hopefully early July, that's just of the top of my head. I know at least 3/4 people including me who are getting one organised. Stay posted.

Also as said remember sometimes it takes 2..


----------



## cl1max

Very exciting stuff. Cannot wait.



> Also as said remember sometimes it takes 2..


Yup. So ill take the first shot with a grain of salt.


----------



## 106473

cl1max said:


> Very exciting stuff. Cannot wait.
> 
> Yup. So ill take the first shot with a grain of salt.


Yeah but i've heard good things from one, but still untested waters I guess for DP. Yours soon?


----------



## cl1max

Not scheduled anything yet. But if only good comes out of this from others here i may go ahead and schedule with lipov!


----------



## 106473

Great, by the looks of it he may find himself very busy



cl1max said:


> Not scheduled anything yet. But if only good comes out of this from others here i may go ahead and schedule with lipov!


Just reading the link I posted from myPTSD and so far on the thread a lot of people are having good things to say, i'll just share a typical story that matches many:

"Dear friends, and I say this with the utmost sincerity, I have gotten the SGB today.

I am going to try and describe as best I can the events:
I went in with overwhelming anxiety and skepticism, while trying to maintain hope. I have had a bad turn of luck lately with personal matters, which didn't help the anxiety and doubt part of things. Before the procedure I met with the doctor who was surprised to see me (thinking I would not elect for the procedure given the shared skepticism). After consulting with him, and double checking the procedure would follow Lipov's "Chicago block" to the letter, I was prepped.

The whole block itself took minutes to do, literally. It didn't hurt, I didn't even get put under anesthesia. Admittedly when the needles were coming at me I got super anxious (as this was a part of my trauma from my accident). But before I knew it the discomfort was over and I was done.

I was put in a "recovery" area and left sitting for a moment. Recalling now, I had this feeling of "now what" but immediately after the procedure I felt a funny feeling, similar to vertigo. As I sat though, wondering if it was working I began to notice something odd: the muscles in my legs were relaxing. Not a little, but totally. Shortly after I began to feel an indescribable feeling of both wanting to laugh and cry at the same time. The more time passed (by which I mean literally minutes) the better I was feeling. I wanted to smile, and I didn't know why. It wasn't that I felt "high" or goofy but I felt different and it felt good. It's only been around four hours and I already can honestly say I think the procedure worked. I feel lighter somehow, and slower in a way that relates to being relaxed.

Strangely enough, I didn't take my zoloft last night due to the earlier referred to personal issues arising and later on in the day I felt the withdrawl (which was so bad last time I had to start again). Even though there's this under current of anxiety, it's definitely a withdrawl related feeling. I feel virtually calm and relaxed. I definitely feel tired (but that's probably from the strange night's sleep I had).

If this feeling maintains itself I will definitely feel no need to continue on my zoloft. Not only that, but I know the doctor was open if I needed another shot and it's incredibly affordable."

EDIT: The more I read the more I dunno why I posted this one...

https://www.myptsd.com/c/threads/sgb-ptsd-treatment-article.11417/page-14 - 3rd last post is neat too


----------



## mrt

Just saw this on http://globalptsifoundation.org/


Dr. Lipov's approach is now being utilized by a number of physicians to treat PTSD (Walter Reed Medical Center, Tripler, Long Beach VA Hospital, San Diego Naval Medical Center) and hot flashes (Mayo Clinic, Northwestern University, Rijnstate Hospital Velp, Netherlands)

It seems the hospital in the Netherlands does Dr Lipovs method, which I assume refers to the three injection points. Though states it is for hot flashes. If they are open to doing it for mental health issues could be a good option for those of us in Europe.

I've messaged globalptsifoundation.org to see if they are aware of the method being used anywhere in the UK.


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## 106473

Good everyone keep at this. I went to my GP today and he said no one even for headaches had it at the practice. Has said be careful and go to Bristol who deal with it. He has also urged me to wait 2 months to deal with other health issues. So I'm on pause (will take that to save anyway) good luck to everyone doing this leading the way. I hope you find some relief


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## Surfingisfun001

I'm interested in this. I hope to hear from people who try it.


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## davinizi

jessfrance said:


> there is Nothing similar in France. we have different methods but not the SGB. I have tried all the other ones but do not work on me
> 
> could you just give the name of the hospital in PM, I will not come ring at your door, I promise  just want to get rid of that shit


I'm pretty sure they have this treatment in every country, it's mainly used against pain. You just have to know the correct term in your language. After a bit of googling I found out the French term is *bloc du ganglion stellaire.*

Here's 2 sites that talk about it: SOS Douleur Domicile and

Radiofrequence du ganglion stellaire > This one is from a hospital in Spain but I found it in French because they have various translations.

Also google the term :

L'anesthesie loco régionale

https://forum.camptocamp.org/t/anesthesie-loco-regionale/60333/9


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## davinizi

People, I just found out there's also another ganglion block that is said to help against anxiety: the

Sphenopalatine Ganglion (SPG) Block

Sphenopalatine Ganglion Blocks frequently offer patients life changing results in reducing pain and anxiety.

This procedure is extremely safe and can be performed in multiple ways.

I teach courses to physicians and dentists in methods to do SPG Blocks as well as Prolotherapy and Trigger Point injections but no treatment rivals the SPG Block when it works for a patient.

The Sphenopalatine Ganglion is the largest Parasympathetic Ganglion of the head and it also contains sympathetic fibers and somatosensory fibers. It is part of the autonomic nervous system. The block essentially turns off the Fight or Flight Reflex.

Relief can be almost immediate and very dramatic as it was with this Fibromyalgia patient:

The SPG Block can be done by intra-oral injection, or from extra-oral route either through the jaw muscles or from a Supra-zygomatic approach. It can be done with Fluoroscopy or without but it is rarely if ever necessary.

This video is a physician who just received the SPG Block and describes what he feels. He is doing a study with veterans who have PTSD and is utilizing the Sphenopalatine Ganglion Blocks to alleviate the chronic overload of their sympathetic nervous system. He wanted to experience the block after I taught him the technique. The second video is the block itself but it is being done by an extra-long spinal needle because he was saving his supply of needles for his PTSD patients.

video

It is also possible to utilize a transnasal approach to delivering anesthetic to the Sphenopalatine Ganglion by a Sphenocath device, an Allevio device or a TX360 device. When utilizing a device I prefer the Sphenocath due to ease of use. The TX360 was the one used for the MiRx Protocol.

My favorite method of transnasal SPG Block is with the cotton tipped catheter due to ease in teaching patients to self administer the Block. I have numerous patients who regularly self administer SPG Blocks and after initial visit the cost of supplies is about $1.00. Patients are now in control of their pain relief and can use the SPG Block as a prophylactic for migraines. Far less expensive and safer the Botox or other medications.

The Sphenocath is able to negotiate difficult nasal passages and I have taught patients to self administer SPG Blocks with the Sphenocath as well.

..


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## davinizi

The Sphenopalatine Ganglion Block is best known for it's amazing effects on treating chronic pain anywhere in the body but especially its use for headaches, migraines, orofacial pain and cluster headaches.

The positive side effects of SPG Blocks include reduction of anxiety and depression. SPG Blocks are also used to treat PTSD and to assist in withdrawal symptoms from medications.

There are many methods of administration but self administration with nasal catheters puts the patient in control of treating and preventing both pain and anxiety. This is very empowering to most patients who often refer to SPG blocks as the Miracle Block!

Dr Shapira has taught this procedure to Physicians and Dentists in the
US and Internationally, most recently at an ICCMO meeting in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

He frequently has patients come in just to learn how to self administer SPG Blocks. Typically patients leave with supplies to do up to 100 SPG Blocks at home. Once they have learned the technique they can turn off pain and depression as well as pain on their schedule without emergency room visits.

Dr Shapira treats Chicago metropolitan area patients including Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Northern Indiana, Elgin and north shore suburbs.

There is no specialty in Craniofacial Pain, Orofacial Pain or TMJ but if there was the specialists would utilize this valuable technique.

Regardless of the underlying anatomy the Sphenopalatine Ganglion Block is a valuable adjunct to treatment and can cure sympathetically maintained pain that the original cause has been eliminated acting as a reset butto. It is essential that patients be given the ability to self administer these easy and safe blocks.

video: SPG Block relieves 8 months of severe anxiety as well as neck pain and headache


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## davinizi

Anxiety, OCD and PTSD are among the disorders treated with Sphenopalatine Ganglion Blocks. Natalia was treated with Bilateral Sphenopalatine Ganglion Blocks to let her experience an SPG Block. She works with Dr Shapira and will be helping patients learn this procedure. Dr Shapira finds it incredibly helpful for his patients to have his team understand what the treatments feel like personally.

Natalia can be very anxxious and as she described "she kind of freaked out" when the first side was done. Within seconds however she felt like the whole room had brightened and her anxiety melted away and she had the second side done which brightened her world even more.

She had no trouble learning how to self administer the SPG Block and plans on using it to help her anxiety and OCD. She is a college student and we expect it will help her grades and test anxiety as she moves toward a career as a Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practioner.

video: SPG block for Anxiety: "The Room got Brighter!" Really Calm!


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## davinizi

Still searching..I did read 1 negative experience with the SGB but I suspect this is due to the anesthetics itself that the person's body has difficulty detoxifying which in itself can cause a host of problems but this won't be the case for most people.

On that blog it was mentioned there is a book published on the subject:

The focus of this book is an exploration of the history, biology and development of stellate ganglion block (SGB) as the highly effective treatment for PTSD. SGB has the potential to change the face of PTSD forever. This is due to the speed of effect (30 minutes), immediate availability, and high compliance with treatment, as well as many others reasons. For every copy of this book sold, five dollars will be donated to the non-for-profit Chicago Medical Innovations, which has a proven track record of successful, pro-bono treatments for PTSD in soldiers using SGB, whose lives have been enriched, and in some cases saved, by the resolution of PTSD.

Some interesting reviews :

I lived my life in the prison of PTSD until I got a series of SGB shots 2 years ago. Stemming from childhood trauma, my PTSD symptoms made my life a living nightmare of *anxiety and ruminative thinking* -- and when I wasn't awake, I had nightmares involving terrifying repetitive imagery of the trauma. I spent thousands of dollars on useless psychotherapies of all persuasions, tried multiple antidepressants, anti-anxiety pills, sleeping pills, beta-blockers, etc. before I stumbled upon an online forum for PTSD sufferers where I learned about something called a Stellate Ganglion Block. I began intensive research into the procedure, which led me to Lipov's scholarly articles on the subject and Chicago-area news clips covering his work.

Encouraged by the positive things I was reading on the forums, I took a leap of faith and scheduled an appointment. As far as the result, the other reviews are spot-on: *it was nothing short of miraculous*. I was literally in tears the first night because I couldn't believe it was possible to feel this calm. *I felt "at home" in my own body for the first time in my life, and I felt safe.* My dreams became more productive and less intense. I felt like life was worth living and that I have a place in this world.

If you're reading this and suffering from PTSD, or know someone who is, I urge you to research the procedure and perhaps give it a try. It may just change your life.

One note: Lipov himself is beginning to realize that it may take 1-3 shots for complete remission of symptoms, and it has not been studied for long enough to know how long it lasts. That being said, some of the case studies he has published involve individuals who experienced instant relief that has endured for years and continues to this day. I count myself among these cases.

****

Nine months ago, I was a recipient of the SGB Block described in this book - March 24 2011. I am currently 47 years old and as a lifelong sufferer of PTSD due to childhood and adult abuses and trauma, I had all but resigned myself to a life of more and more pills and wavering anxieties and depression. I had an extremely high startle reflex and could have blinding anxiety attacks during any assortment of PTSD "trigger" events. I felt helpless. A year ago and after 25 years of literally every other therapy out there, I heard of this revolutionary treatment and sought info on the Web, mostly through Dr. Lipov's site and his articles.

I received this nerve block for the purposes of my PTSD from a local pain and spine specialist who was open-minded enough to read the articles I brought him and perform the SGB "off label". Most pain or spine specialists perform SGB blocks for upper body pains frequently. The SGB has been used since the the 1920's and is about as safe as a tooth filling. I had the simple 10-minute injection procedure to my neck late in the day, and attributed lightheartedness that evening to the twilight anesthesia. *However, when I woke the next morning, the entire world had changed and continues to be marvelously tranquil ever since. *It took a couple of weeks to adjust to such calmness; where the world had been going by at 100 mph, now it goes by at a manageable 25mph. *Due to the stopping of my overused and "locked up" adrenaline producing parts of my brain, I was suddenly able to digest and process all information without becoming overwhelmed and overtaken by heart-racing adrenaline and the confused and panic-laden emotional states that accompany this aspect of PTSD. Now I take no more meds. I have been in a wonderful new state of emotional stability for almost 9 months now. I sincerely believe that this injection literally reset my "flight or fight" mechanism to pre-trauma levels and it has given me a whole new life. *Additionally, all the powerful and vivid memories related to my trauma have now "faded to grey"....in the way normal memories should. *I no longer have trigger events and can participate in life events freely where before I was gravely restricted by fear of triggers and panic attacks.*


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## mrt

SGB and an SPG, I'll take one of each to go.


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## ThoughtOnFire




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## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Got my blood test results back today; I don't have Raynaud's, so I can't swing an SGB for that on the NHS. However, I do have neck, shoulder, & upper back pain. So, Plan B is to exaggerate that. Found a Harley Street pain specialist who runs an NHS Pain Clinic at my local hospital. Emailed him today & he replied within minutes saying that if my GP refers me to him I can get an SGB on the NHS from him. WOOHOO! Now I need to convince my GP to refer me to him for pain, & I already have an appointment booked for Wednesday next week.
> 
> Also, my sister is a manager for a local private hospital group, & she is getting a quote together for me from her pain consultant. That's my Plan C!


But please remember my friend: many people with ptsd did only benefit with 2 injections at the same session; one at C6 and C3.


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## 35467

i had a c6 done yesterday,-in Bristol. I have had DP for 30.years. I felt more spaced out and a little anxious form the experience. The doctor who did said that he usually take C6 in the first trail and then tries the other in the second and third trail. C6 is the "flight and Fight" response and I think that C3 is more related to anxiety.

There is some theories that DP is a para-sympathatic immobilisation response from the nervous system when "fight and flight"don´t work. The para-sympathic system can according to a "poly-vagel theory" be divided into two systems. A safe/ social system and a unsafe/ "shot down"/immobilization system. DP should be related to the last and the first one is suppressed. It might be a "fight and flight response" that keeps it up or anxiety. So, C6 might work in some or PTSD and other might try C3 and/ C7

I know that someone is trying the Chicago clinic and they might block the C3. So, i will wait for her response. I will try the next blockades in late sept or the beginning of Oct.


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## davinizi

Are those nrs C6, C3 and C7 acupuncture points or from another classification?

I think DP is related to the freeze response which is related to fight/flight anyways. I think you're right that it's a shut down/immobilization which is what freezing (play dead/ not being here) comes down to. Apart from the fight/flight reaction related to anxiety , there are 2 other reactions that are less well known which are the freeze and fawn response.

When people get into freeze response?

Consider situations in which, realistically, there's no way you can defend yourself. You have neither the hormone-assisted strength to respond aggressively to the inimical force nor the anxiety-driven speed to free yourself from it. You feel utterly helpless: neither fight nor flight is viable, and there's no one on the scene to rescue you.

..

Under such unnerving circumstances, "freezing up" or "numbing out"-in a word, *dissociating *from the here and now-is about the only and (in various instances), best thing you can do. Being physically, mentally, and emotionally immobilized by your consternation permits you not to feel the harrowing enormity of what's happening to you, which in your hyperaroused state might threaten your very sanity. In such instances some of the chemicals (i.e., endorphins) you thereby secrete function as an analgesic, so the pain of any injury (to your body or psyche) is experienced with far less intensity.

..

Keep in mind that if you're a small child, your developmental capacity to protect yourself is markedly limited. So, rationally or not, you're likely to experience a whole host of situations as threatening to your survival. Merely a look of rejection or scorn in the eyes of a disapproving parent, for instance, can make you feel so uncared for, so unloved and abandoned, that you may feel compelled to *numb* yourself out. And this is why the freeze response occurs far more commonly in children than in adults.

..

That is, such "paralyzing" psychological phenomena as phobias, panic attacks, obsessive-compulsive behaviors, and *various **anxiety **states can frequently be understood as symptoms of a freeze response* that never had the chance to "let go" or "thaw out" once the original experience was over. And *many features of **post-traumatic stress disorder **directly relate to this kind of unrectified trauma*. (full article here)

This is also an interesting article about the freeze response from what neuroscientists have discovered:

Exciting new research from the UK is looking into the neurobiology of the "freeze" response.

..

For the first time, neuroscientists at University of Bristol have identified a brain pathway that may be the root of the universal response to freeze in place when we are afraid. Their revolutionary study-released on April 23, 2014-discovered a chain of neural connections stemming from the cerebellum. When activated by a real or imagined threatening stimuli, these neural connections can cause the body to automatically freeze.

The new study titled "Neural Substrates Underlying Fear-Evoked Freezing: The Periaqueductal Grey-Cerebellar Link" was published in the Journal of Physiology. The Bristol researchers believe that understanding how these central neural pathways actually work will bring us closer to developing effective treatments for emotional disorders such as panic attacks, phobias, and general anxiety.

*What Brain Regions Are Involved in Our Fear-Evoked Freezing Response?*









Source:

The periaqueductal grey (PAG) is a brain region responsible for dictating how humans and animals respond to perceived danger. The PAG has long been known to receive various inputs about potential threats and trigger automatic reflexive responses that cause us to: freeze in place, give us the bloodflow to swiftly take flight, or the adrenaline rush to fight.

The University of Bristol neuroscientists have identified a specific brain pathway leading from the PAG to a highly localized part of the cerebellum called the *pyramis* which causes the body to automatically freeze in place.

The researchers discovered the pathway linking the PAG to the cerebellar cortex, which terminates as climbing fibers in lateral vermal lobule VIII (pyramis), in adult rats. If you'd like to read more about the cerebellum and climbing fibers check out my recent Psychology Today blog post "Neuroscientists Discover How Practice Makes Perfect."

The central neural pathways involved in fear-evoked behavior are similar in most mammals. If neuroscientists can identify how these pathways work in animal studies, it could lead to the development of effective treatments for human emotional disorders.










Cerebellum in Red

Source:https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-athletes-way/201405/neuroscientists-discover-the-roots-fear-evoked-freezing


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## 35467

The leading researcher into these responses is Stephen Porges who has done research into the mind-body relations for 4.decades. He has written about it in his book the "Poly-vagal theory". With repossess the body/brain choses to a stressor is not within the control of the mind but outside of it. Like a refleks

Here is a publication from the DP research unit that looks at the CNS in DP and also mentions two vagal/para-sympathic responses:

"Both real and sham conditions yielded declining SCL, whereas the two biofeedback conditions yielded differing parasympathetic activity patterns. Namely, increases in HF and LF components of HRV spectral analysis in the real-time condition contrasted with decreases in HF and LF in the sham condition, reflecting continued sympathetic influence on the vagus nerve and heart. These findings are interesting in light of a novel phylogenetic model of the autonomic nervous system proposed to encompass three distinct functional subsystems, each mediating differing adaptive behav- ioral strategies involving specific emotional and visceral responses (Porges, 2003). These subsystems are structured as a phylogenetic hierarchy. The most archaic, the dorsal-vagal complex, is a parasympathetic subsystem composed of unmyelinated, slow-conducting vagal fibers originating in the dorsal vagal motor nucleus of the brainstem, triggering "immobiliza- tion" reflected by physiological and behavioral shutdown in response to threat/stress (Porges, 2003). Relevant to depersonalization, it has been suggested that dissociative responses characterized by emotional detachment and sympathetic hypoarousal may represent predominant activation of this system (van der Hart, Nijenhuis, Steele, & Brown, 2004), although to our knowledge this proposal has yet to find empirical support. Next in phylogenetic ascendancy is the sympathetic adrenal complex, which trig- gers flight/fight defensive strategies upon threat appraisal. Finally, the most evolved is a vagal subsystem composed of fast-response, myelinated fibers originating in the ventral brainstem nuclei (nucleus ambiguus). This ventral- vagal complex (VVC) suppresses defensive responses, promoting social behavioral engagement via self-calming and self-soothing mechanisms. It is proposed to also be under cortical regulation with a predominant afferent component (Porges, 2003), where its major functional role is to provide fast-acting tuning of the heart rate by means of a brake-like inhibitory mechanism on both the intrinsic activity of the sinoauricular pacemaker of the heart and sympathetic adrenal activity (Grossman & Taylor, 2007). Respiratory sinus arrhythmia (RSA), captured by the HF HRV spectra, pro- vides an index of the vagal brake, reflecting natural periodic change in heart rate synchronized with the breathing cycle. This polyvagal model proposes that the VVC mediates a social engagement system that becomes degraded in situations of perceived danger (Porges, 2003). Conversely, in situations perceived as safe, the VVC downregulates the expression of both the dorso- vagal and sympathetic defensive systems." http://www.lorentzcenter.nl/lc/web/2013/556/ThemePapers/SchoenbergLWS.pdf


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## 35467

"Are those nrs C6, C3 and C7 acupuncture points or from another classification?"

Cervical and Lumbar Sympathetic Blocks

https://neupsykey.com/cervical-and-lumbar-sympathetic-blocks/

A quite recent publication on DP says that;" We conclude that the representation of visceral-afferent neural signals at brainstem level may be deficient in DPD. This effect may be due to increased peripheral sympathetic tone or to dysregulated signal processing at brainstem level".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27078753

The PNS consists of the nerves and ganglia outside of the brain and spinal cord. That is the nerves we are talking about blokning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_nervous_system


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## Ray46

Mayer-Gross said:


> "Are those nrs C6, C3 and C7 acupuncture points or from another classification?"
> 
> Cervical and Lumbar Sympathetic Blocks[/size]
> 
> https://neupsykey.com/cervical-and-lumbar-sympathetic-blocks/
> 
> A quite recent publication on DP says that;" We conclude that the representation of visceral-afferent neural signals at brainstem level may be deficient in DPD. This effect may be due to increased peripheral sympathetic tone or to dysregulated signal processing at brainstem level".[/size]
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27078753
> 
> The PNS consists of the nerves and ganglia outside of the brain and spinal cord. That is the nerves we are talking about blokning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_nervous_system


So ist it possible to block the Peripheral nervous system with an injection?


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## 35467

"So ist it possible to block the Peripheral nervous system with an injection?"

Yes, parts of it. Thats what they do when they block a ganglion. The PNS is divided into several ganglia C1, 2C, C3 .....


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## TDX

> A quite recent publication on DP says that;" We conclude that the representation of visceral-afferent neural signals at brainstem level may be deficient in DPD. This effect may be due to increased peripheral sympathetic tone or to dysregulated signal processing at brainstem level".


I don't know if I understood it correctly, but antipsychotics seem to increase it, too:

_"Thus, we arrive at the central hypothesis of the present paper: chronic D2 receptor blockade by antipsychotics abolishes peripheral dopaminergic modulation, resulting in chronically increased sympathetic tone, in turn leading to impaired control of glucose and lipid metabolism, chronic increase in blood pressure, and increased propensity for cardiac arrhythmias (Fig. 1)."_

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3657088/#Sec6title

Perhaps then this could be the mechanism of action by which antipsychotics make depersonalization symptoms worse in some patients. It would not be their direct action in the brain. This hypothesis could even be easily _tested_: In the paper they mention the D2-antagonist domperidon, which does not reach the brain. If patients whose depersonalization symptoms get worse on antipsychotics also get worse on domperidon this would support the hypothesis that in fact in some patients the peripheral sympathetic nervous system doesn't function normally and might be involved in generating the symptoms.

This could have several important implications:

1. Some (atypical) antipsychotics should be more likely to increase depersonalization symptoms than other (typical) ones, because the paper notes that they are more likely to cause metabolic changes.

2. Treatments for Parkinson's disease and stellatum blockade might reduce depersonalization symptoms in such patients.

3. Some data (http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6775-list-of-meds-that-help-dpdr/) suggests that about 30% get worse by atypical antipsychotics. Maybe these are the people who could respond to the aforementioned interventions.

I know that might be far fetched, but in my opinion it's worth to look into this.


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## 35467

"A question; can you confirm that the Bristol clinic will inject at C3 & C7?"

Not as the first intervention and trail. But, the next ones. He follows much of Lipovs procedures.

Depersonlization is a aversive state/shot down state to internal and external stimuli. The insula (sense of self) is inhibited, the reward systems is also inhibited. Anti-psychotics makes that inhibition more profound. You can´t have a depersonalisation in a manic state for the same reason. But, anti-psychotics works on the reward systems in the brain and the sympathetic system is deeper than that and connected to the body. They might also increase sympathetic activity but i don´t think that is cause is the effect. It is more related to the direct effect on the reward systems.


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## 35467

There is some other issues in relation til SGB intervention and depersonalisation disorder. 12.years ago i came into contact with the "Depersonalisation research unit" and they sent me a around 30 pages of testning and questionnaires for research purposes. They asked for some symptoms that i developed with DP and i never could fit in with the psychological changes. They asked if i had headaches and tinnitus. This i have and i got it with DP. I have tension heartaches at a constant lov level and facial pain when I relax or is fatigued.

SGB actually work on some of these symptoms in some and the explanation for that is the some nerves have become oversensitive due to stress and begins to send pain signals. SGB is used to bring such a oversensitivity down by blocking the ganglion nerves once a week for 4-6.weeks.it has also been used in some tinnitus patients( tinnitus is likely to be many disorders, so it might work i some) If DP is related to a overactive sympathetic system form a periode of server anxiety and stress it might also make a pain syndrome in some people with DP after the outset of the disorder.

Some hours my SGB (two days ago)i had severe headaches and facial pain and now i fell that it has been reduced slightly. It is the only difference i can feel form the SGB at this moment.


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## TDX

> You can´t have a depersonalisation in a manic state for the same reason.


And why did I meet a person during my stay at the mental hospital whose mental illness started as a mixed-mania-depersonalization state?



> Depersonlization is a aversive state/shot down state to internal and external stimuli. The insula (sense of self) is inhibited, the reward systems is also inhibited. Anti-psychotics makes that inhibition more profound.


Then they should make depersonalization symptoms worse for all patients, but this isn't the case. A few even appear to benefit from them.



> But, anti-psychotics works on the reward systems in the brain and the sympathetic system is deeper than that and connected to the body. They might also increase sympathetic activity but i don´t think that is cause is the effect. It is more related to the direct effect on the reward systems.


Which isn't really plausible. If the reward system isn't working anyway and antipsychotics are assumed to inhibit it even further I don't see why this should make a profound difference.

I tried 4 (Quetiapine, Aripiprazole, Amisulpride and Clozapine) different antipsychotics of which 3 are supposed sometimes to work on anhedonia. None of them made me more anhedonic than I am already, but this could also be because I'm already at the maximum.


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## 35467

You can have depersonalisation and mania but it is related to epilepsy according to the literature.If it was mix state it might not be that DP was present while manic. I have read most research into depersonalisation and that is what it mentioned. Kappa receptor agonist can make depersonalisation and they also have anti-manic propertries. Partial kappa agonists have been considered for mood stabiliser and for addiction for the same reason.

Anti-psychotics medications can be be stimulating in low doses. If you block a dopamine auto-receptor is will be 7-8 times more sensitive it will be stimulating, than the post-synaptic receptor that you will try to close down in a psychosis. Amisulpride is often used for that, aripriprazole is a partial agonist and works different than other medication.

Some with DP might benefit from those but who says they don´t have their symptoms secondary to another condition? Again, in some texts from the depersonalisation research unit says that many with DP get worse on anti-psychotics;

"We have seen a number of cases where patients with primary depersonal- isation had been previously misdiagnosed with schizophrenia and started on antipsychotic

medications, which had invariably worsened their symptoms. In general, establishing the presence or absence of other symptoms should enable the distinction between primary and secondary de- personalisation, although if depersonalisation and related phenomena are the sole or predominant complaint, it may be reasonable to treat the case as one of primary depersonalisation even when there is a history of other symptoms "

http://apt.rcpsych.org/content/aptrcpsych/11/2/92.full.pdf


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## 106473

Mayer-Gross said:


> You can´t have a depersonalisation in a manic state for the same reason.


This has me kinda confused. I've not been sleeping days in a row and feeling 'up' and 'wired' without any of the joy of a manic state. My current diagnoses is Bipolar 2 mixed state with DP. Currently assessed as 'manic' ongoing for over a year. Not reacted to Lithium or Quetiapine despite a year long search to understand why I am over stimulated to the max, talk rapidly at times, don't sleep for days or feel tired.

This statement of this not being possible confuses me, as I very much have DP, i don't feel happy from this wired state or any emotion at all. So i get that you may not get the fun part of manic, but if it's not possible, i'm questing what this is. On going doctors who are puzzled as my 'bipolar' does not match typical 'bipolar' yet my P Doc swears it is.

I thought that was just because DP was blocking the thoughts, emotions and happiness? (of mania) confused... then again i've not read people who can stay up as long as myself or had a manic state last a year


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## 35467

You usually treat these mix states as bipolar 2 with lamotrigin. It is the inability to experience joy thar come from a inhibition of the reward system in depersonalisation. Maybe one can have derealisation that is more related to a inhibition of the insula(the sense of self is related to insula) in a mix state. But, we are now talkning of secondary symptoms of depersonlation related to other states or disorders. Not, depersonalisation as a primary disorder on its own right with no underlying disorder. If one has depersonalisation secondary to another disorder the DP symptoms will go away if they are treated.


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## 106473

I got DP separate to my Bipolar that's for sure. Lamotrigine unfortunately is a no go, I requested it and got it, but after 1 month i got a flu for 2 weeks and no one I talked to doctor wise knew if I could get past it by keep taking it, so had to come off.

Any other ideas? would Keppra do something similar for mixed state? at the minute i'm just trying to even rule out or in Bipolar... I don't see how it could have happened like this and for so long.

My DP = Drug trip

My Bipolar = 1.5 years after DP I had signs mainly not sleeping for over a week at a time without being tired.

Where that leaves me, i'm not sure on the scale. If anything my DP is primary and Bipolar is separate issue/misdiagnosed


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## 35467

You can use many anti-epileptics as "downers" but the problem is they don´t take the risk of depression as Lamotrigine. Lamotrigine has a good profile for that. Sometimes you can take people of Lamotrigine if they have the skin rash side-effect and reinstate it after a periode without this side-effect comes again. I don´t know if it goes with the flu symptoms too. Topiramate is used in manic states and is sedating. Might help for the sleep.


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## 106473

Thanks a lot man, didn't mean to hijack this tread, just when you said the whole manic state shouldn't happen, i've questioned and so have doctors if this is or not, guess I need to get on some more anti mania medication to see if it is, Lithium hasn't changed anything.. I'll PM you about it some time if that's cool.

Expecting to see more SGB's here soon, hopefully you will notice something in the coming weeks


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## mind.divided

any updates?


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## cl1max

ralex said:


> I came across this thread from a crosspost on reddit and was encouraged enough to book an appointment with Dr. Lipov in Chicago. I'm in Canada but the doctors who perform that procedure here weren't keen on doing it for this off-label use - too bad considering it would have been covered by MSP  The cost for me was $1500 USD and that includes multiple injections at the different spine locations if necessary.
> 
> My appointment is on June 23rd, and I'll gladly come back on in 10 days to update people as to how it went. I've long suffered depersonalization/derealization after a pretty traumatic childhood with an alcoholic mother/absent father so I'm pretty excited to see how this works out for me and for everyone else who's considering it as well.


Hopefully he checks in soon


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## 35467

Yes, I am waiting for that response too. I had a C6 done 3.days ago and i don´t feel a thing. He should have a C6, C3 And a C7 done. The injection i got might have taken out some activity from the sympathetic system and i will to exercise the para-sympatric system with with a "heart rate variability feedback" device i have. I used some years ago extensively without any effect. I try again because i might have more access to the para-symphatic system now. DP is likely to be an para-sympatric disorder where the defensive immobilisation/ "shot down" response is present and the para-sympatric social/safe mode is absent. "Heart rate variability biofeedback" works on stimulating the later para-sympatric state. SGB works on taking out the "flight and fight" system that might be overactive in DP and keeps the defensive para sympathetic immobilisation/"shot down" response up and the social/safe para-sympatric system down. Taking out the overdrive in the "fight and flight system" might not do it alone for a response in DP.


----------



## Ray46

Mayer-Gross said:


> Yes, I am waiting for that response too. I had a C6 done 3.days ago and i don´t feel a thing. He should have a C6, C3 And a C7 done. The injection i got might have taken out some activity from the sympathetic system and i will to exercise the para-sympatric system with with a "heart rate variability feedback" device i have. I used some years ago extensively without any effect. I try again because i might have more access to the para-symphatic system now. DP is likely to be an para-sympatric disorder where the defensive immobilisation/ "shot down" response is present and the para-sympatric social/safe mode is absent. "Heart rate variability biofeedback" works on stimulating the later para-sympatric state. SGB works on taking out the "flight and fight" system that might be overactive in DP and keeps the defensive para sympathetic immobilisation/"shot down" response up and the social/safe para-sympatric system down. Taking out the overdrive in the "fight and flight system" might not do it alone for a response in DP.


Did anything changed in your anxiety level? Do you feel more calm or less anxiety or everything the same so far?


----------



## 35467

Ray46 said:


> Did anything changed in your anxiety level? Do you feel more calm or less anxiety or everything the same so far?


 No, actually right after i felt more spaced out and more anxious. I had all the side-effects of a C6 blocking. Hot feeling, red right eye. I was injected with the same high dose as in Chicago. 2.cl is normal but i got 7.cl. I think that a blocking of C6, C3 and C7 might be more potent. It takes out more of the "fight and flight response"


----------



## mrt

I agree, it's not going to work for everyone. But I have a feeling its going to have a pretty good success rate of at least making an improvement.

I also think that C3, C6 and C7 combo is going to be key, I watched another PTSD video where someone had nothing from the C6, went back in to get another and bingo!

Here it is...


----------



## 35467

Yes, here is one more that gets C6, then C3 and C7 because there is no response to C6;


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## 106473

Yeah unfortunately, it seems best with 2x C6 (with maybe C3)... It's now for us UK (side of the world) people to think are we going to have to fly to Chicago and do this in one go or go to Bristol twice. Prices of 2 injections with Dr Lipov in one day would be good to know so i can do some maths.

Bristol would be like £1,100 x 2 as you do it on different days. Some more results should be filtering in, Ralex is going to be very interesting, did he end up needing one or two and how it went...I will wait with anticipation!


----------



## 35467

Nobody, have talked of 2xC6. The discussion is about one ganglion C6 or 3.ganglia C6,C7 and C3.


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## XBrave

wow this is getting so complicated :idea:


----------



## 35467

1) Those in the PTSD trails only had immediate effect on their symptoms related to hyperarousel like anger, sleep, outburst. The DP related symptoms like detachment, numbing began to subside after 4.weeks. So, i think that it is a little early to say that it haven´t had any effect. DP is a para-sympatric disorder where the social/safe para-sympatric state is suppressed by a para-sympatric immobilisation/"shot down" response that is mobilised by the CNS because "fight and flight" is active but don´t work. To take out this overactive "flight and flight response" will not make the para-sympatric system normal at once. In animals that has been exposed to danger and immobilised repeatedly it takes longer and longer for them to get back to normal after the danger is gone. So, getting the CNS back to normal will take some time. 3.blocknings of the 3.ganglia in one week will not have the same effect as 3.blocknings 3.months apart.

2) They numb the C6 (cervical 6) ganglion because it is the largest and easiest to come to of the sympathetic ganglia. C3( cervical 3) and C7 are smaller and more difficult to get to. Some respond to C6 only for the same reason. Here is a picture of the different ganglia and their placement;

https://clinicalgate.com/cervical-and-lumbar-sympathetic-blocks/


----------



## jessfrance

mrt said:


> I agree, it's not going to work for everyone. But I have a feeling its going to have a pretty good success rate of at least making an improvement.
> 
> I also think that C3, C6 and C7 combo is going to be key, I watched another PTSD video where someone had nothing from the C6, went back in to get another and bingo!
> 
> Here it is...


I want to do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cna t live like a dog anymore. I am a bit ofraid of flying from europe to chicago on my own but well.... I think I have to go !!!

guys, does one of you knows how to contact dr lipov? is it hard to get an appointment? how long is it needed to stay at hopsital? can we fly back right after the injection or do we need to rest? do some of you know if you need a special visa or autorisation to go to the us as a EU Citizen or is a passport enough?

I want to move my ass and do it quickly ! I just can t stand myself, I am in bed half day ! I have nomotivation. Going to the grocery store is like a huge effort to me !


----------



## Ray46

2) They numb the C6 (cervical 6) ganglion because it is the largest and easiest to come to of the sympathetic ganglia. C3( cervical 3) and C7 are smaller and more difficult to get to. Some respond to C6 only for the same reason. Here is a picture of the different ganglia and their placement;

Is it possible to inject/numb all ganglia in one session from C1 to C7?


----------



## 106473

mrt said:


> I agree, it's not going to work for everyone. But I have a feeling its going to have a pretty good success rate of at least making an improvement.
> 
> I also think that C3, C6 and C7 combo is going to be key, I watched another PTSD video where someone had nothing from the C6, went back in to get another and bingo!
> 
> Here it is...


so wait this is a C6.... then what? (c3?)


----------



## 35467

CK1 said:


> so wait this is a C6.... then what? (c3?)


I got a C6 and normally you inject 1,5-2cl to numb it and that is what is used in a normal SGB in a hospital. I got 7.cl and that is what the nerve can take in one injection. Then you can go higher to the C3 ganglion or lower to C7 ganglion and they are smaller and can properly take 3- 4.cl each if you will numb the sympathetic system more. He might not have given her 7.cl at first or he numbs another ganglion. it is difficult to say.


----------



## mrt

Its hard to find details on Dr Lipovs specific method, but I found this...

"The first injections are done on the right side of the neck near the C6 and the C7 vertebrae. These are safer. If it works at this point, we stop. If it doesn't, then we go for a block at about the C3. How do we judge if it works? The body gives clues in the form of a Horner syndrome." This is when the right eyelid gets droopy. A few patients need a booster shot a year later, but most never do."

Seems like the only difference between the way Bristol do it and Dr Lipov is that he moves onto another point more or less straight away if its not successful, whereas Bristol you need to go back some weeks later?


----------



## 35467

mrt said:


> Its hard to find details on Dr Lipovs specific method, but I found this...
> 
> "The first injections are done on the right side of the neck near the C6 and the C7 vertebrae. These are safer. If it works at this point, we stop. If it doesn't, then we go for a block at about the C3. How do we judge if it works? The body gives clues in the form of a Horner syndrome." This is when the right eyelid gets droopy. A few patients need a booster shot a year later, but most never do."
> 
> Seems like the only difference between the way Bristol do it and Dr Lipov is that he moves onto another point more or less straight away if its not successful, whereas Bristol you need to go back some weeks later?


The Bristol setting is different. The setup is not hospital-like where you can give an IV if people panic during the first injection. It is a privat clinic and less hospital like during injections. To give 3.injections might be difficult in their setting. You have to see if people can accept the first injection in the C6. C3 and C7 is more difficult to access . They are smaller and more difficult to access than C6 and they take longer time. To take C6 takes less than 5-10.min but to take them all might take 20-30.min. So, to only give a C6 is also to see if people have the ability for more injections. It is not painful and a visit to the dentist is worse.


----------



## 35467

Ray46 said:


> 2) They numb the C6 (cervical 6) ganglion because it is the largest and easiest to come to of the sympathetic ganglia. C3( cervical 3) and C7 are smaller and more difficult to get to. Some respond to C6 only for the same reason. Here is a picture of the different ganglia and their placement;
> 
> Is it possible to inject/numb all ganglia in one session from C1 to C7?


Yes, it is possible to take C3 and C7 at the same time. This is smaller ganglia and more difficult to access because there is blood vessels close to them. The set-up to take them will take more time than C6 and you have to be secure that the patient can tolerate that.


----------



## Ray46

Mayer-Gross said:


> Yes, it is possible to take C3 and C7 at the same time. This is smaller ganglia and more difficult to access because there is blood vessels close to them. The set-up to take them will take more time than C6 and you have to be secure that the patient can tolerate that.


I mean can you inject c1, c2 , c3, c4, c5, c6, and c7 in one session?


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## Ray46

Hey guys I have found an intersting article which shows that a man who had his adrenal gland removed can't feel fear.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/jordy-cernik-man-unable-fear-2208002


----------



## Riekas

An update for me:

I was supposed to have my consultation appointment today for a SGB. Two hours before, the office called and said the doctor reviewed my information and decided he would not be able to help me and is canceling my appointment. Pretty bummed. Any one else having any success?


----------



## mrt

Riekas said:


> I was supposed to have my consultation appointment today for a SGB. Two hours before, the office called and said the doctor reviewed my information and decided he would not be able to help me and is canceling my appointment. Pretty bummed. Any one else having any success?


Ah, that's no good. 2 Hours before! I'm not sure where you are, but is there any way you could go to Dr Lipov directly in Chicago?

I'm going to try emailing Rijnstate Hospital Velp, Netherlands to see if they're open to doing it for dissociative disorders. They do it for pain and hot flashes.

I google translated their info on it, it said "In principle, you do not have to be sober for this treatment" lol


----------



## 35467

Ray46 said:


> I mean can you inject c1, c2 , c3, c4, c5, c6, and c7 in one session?


You take C6 because it is the largest of the ganglia. C7 and C3 are smaller but accessible. The other ganglia is smaller and less accessible and might control more vital functions like breathing. It might take the DP ,-and your life.


----------



## jessfrance

Riekas said:


> An update for me:
> 
> I was supposed to have my consultation appointment today for a SGB. Two hours before, the office called and said the doctor reviewed my information and decided he would not be able to help me and is canceling my appointment. Pretty bummed. Any one else having any success?


did he say why he could not help you? is it related to DP?


----------



## jessfrance

Mayer-Gross said:


> You take C6 because it is the largest of the ganglia. C7 and C3 are smaller but accessible. The other ganglia is smaller and less accessible and might control more vital functions like breathing. It might take the DP ,-and your life.


Hi mayer gross,

you seem to know a lot. can you have C6 C7 and C3 at the same time in one injection? or do you need to have them separately?


----------



## 35467

jessfrance said:


> Hi mayer gross,
> 
> you seem to know a lot. can you have C6 C7 and C3 at the same time in one injection? or do you need to have them separately?


in Chicago they give them all at once if needed. In England C6 at first and if no response all of them in the next trail. I have written about this in this tread before.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Saw my GP today, & he has refered me to my local hospital to see a pain specialist for an SBG. The referal was for neck pain, which I have actually got. I'm gonna contact them on Friday for an appointment (he asked me to hold off until then as he wants to write them a letter). Let's see where this leads me.


Nice, I'm excited to hear how things go for you.


----------



## 35467

Injection in C6 is the norm for all SGB trails for PTSD. C3 and C7 and/or a C6 again is an alternative if one sees no benefit form the first. This is however not done in the publish trails. Only C6 in published trails.

"Following clinical interview including administration of the PTSD Checklist (PCL), 166 service members with symptoms of PTSD elected to receive a SGB. All patients received a SGB on the right side at the level of *the sixth cervical vertebrae (C6)."*

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25269132

All publications related to SGB and PTSD;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=stellate+ganglion+block+ptsd


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## 106473

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Saw my GP today, & he has refered me to my local hospital to see a pain specialist for an SBG. The referal was for neck pain, which I have actually got. I'm gonna contact them on Friday for an appointment (he asked me to hold off until then as he wants to write them a letter). Let's see where this leads me.


Great news. We still waiting on the other member who is going to Dr Lipov? or did i miss that


----------



## XBrave

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys I have found an intersting article which shows that a man who had his adrenal gland removed can't feel fear.
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/jordy-cernik-man-unable-fear-2208002


remove your heart and you can't even exist :razz:


----------



## ralex

Hi everyone, sorry for the delay in reply. I had the stellate ganglion block in two locations (I believe c6 and c3) with Dr. Lipov in Chicago last Friday. I'm currently still driving back home to Canada (couldn't fly as I had to bring a friend) so I have limited access to a computer until I get back on Friday. I will post a comprehensive response on Friday or Saturday once I'm back. I will say in the interim that while I have noticed a significant difference post treatment, this procedure was not the miracle cure I was hoping for. I have a theory for why this is (and why the procedure had a similar, less pronounced response in another patient at the same time with complex childhood trauma - whereas a third patient suffering from adult onset combat related PTSD has the most marked initial improvement). I requested a third shot at the time but was told they have ever only done that once, as there is a limit to how much fluid should be injected into the neck at one point. Dr. Lipov was also of the opinion that an additional c7 block "would likely provide little additional benefit, as they are right next to eachother." I was somewhat dismayed at the conveyor belt like treatment I received, where one patient after the other was wheeled into the operating theatre. I probably spent less than one minute cumulatively talking to Dr. Lipov. I understand, however that demand for this procedure is high and the way they operate allows them to get as many patients through as fast as possible, so I really can't complain at all. Just wish I could have had more time to chat with him.


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## 35467

I had a C6 done a week ago. You are right that C6 and C7 are close to each other. Normally you block C6 with 2.cl of Anastasia but the dose I got and use in PTSD, was 7.cl, so there is not a lot of room around C7 for an injection.

The PTSD patients have a high activity in the sympathetic system and most respond to there symptoms right away like; anger, outburst. Their symptoms related to DP like detachment, numbing starts to reduce after 4.weeks and on.

DP is likely to be a para-sympatric immobilisation/shot down response. The CNS says "I can´t fight and flight, so i shot down". Taking out the "flight and flight response" will not normalise the para-sympatric system at once. The safe and social part of the para-sympatric system has been suppressed by the defensive part. So, one has to stimulate the social/safe part. I use something called a "heart rate variability biofeedback" system that co-ordinates breathing and the CNS so the safe part of the para-sympatric system is stimulated. Taking out the overactivity out the sympathetic system gives room for that proces. So, the state is related to PTSD but there is the para-sympatric dimension to it also. There are sevel studies of the CNS in DP and it is disrupted in that level.

Here is something about stimulation of the vagus nerve with breathing. There is biofeedback devices to smartphone with sensors and an app or devices like Emwave or stresserazor. But this guide is also ok; https://eiriu-eolas.org/2013/06/29/its-very-easy-to-deal-with-your-anxiety-using-your-vagus-nerve/

I will take some months to see is there is more flexibility to my state and then i will go for another injection of the C3 and C6 or C7

i think i have paid around the same and it was around two hour with a doctor and a nurse. One hour consultation and then injection and surveillance after to see its everything was ok.


----------



## Riekas

Basically, they just said they wouldn't do the block for my symptoms. That it wouldn't help or something. Annoying.

Chicago is kind of an option for me. It's maybe like a 5 hour drive for me so not too terrible, but I'm not sure if I could find a person to go with me since they want you to have a designated driver.


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## 35467

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> If true, that's a very important thing for us to remember. However, I'm pretty sure the OP said his DP symtpoms went away a lot quicker than that.


He only had it for nearly a year. There has been done several investigations into the CNS of DP patients. It is likely to be a disorder at CNS level with both disruptions in the sympathetic and para-sympatric systems. PTSD is for 80% of those who have it a sympathetic disorder. 20% of them have a dissociative/para-sympathic subtype with DP symptoms.

I don´t think DP will go away just sudden. It is a delusion related to the sudden outset of the state that it will also go away sudden. But, the disorder didn´t become chronic at the sudden outset but by the panic, high stress levels for months after. That response made the chronic state and made some imbalances in the CNS. With SGB you try to stop the overactivity of the sympathetic system and it might take the disorder in some but in the majority is will open up for more flexibility for changes that was not there before. The CNS has to reset itself.


----------



## 35467

Riekas said:


> Basically, they just said they wouldn't do the block for my symptoms. That it wouldn't help or something. Annoying.
> 
> Chicago is kind of an option for me. It's maybe like a 5 hour drive for me so not too terrible, but I'm not sure if I could find a person to go with me since they want you to have a designated driver.


You are in a quarantine for up to 24.hours after the injection. Rent a hotel room for one day.


----------



## Riekas

Ah seriously? So I need both someone to drive me, and can't leave the area for a day?


----------



## 35467

Riekas said:


> Ah seriously? So I need both someone to drive me, and can't leave the area for a day?


Yes, you can leave but you can´t drive a car on your ovn for 24.hours.You typically leave after 30.min. I signed a statment prior to my injection that i was among these thing aware of not drivning a car for 24.hours. I think you can drive after 15.hours.


----------



## Riekas

Ah okay, thanks! I may be able to figure something out. I'll probably call Chicago and a few other places closer to me next week and see what I can work out.


----------



## 35467

Riekas said:


> Ah okay, thanks! I may be able to figure something out. I'll probably call Chicago and a few other places closer to me next week and see what I can work out.


You shall be aware that there is a difference in a SGB for PTSD and the normal SGB given for pain. Normally the injection given for a pain disorder is about 1,5-2 cl of anastasia in C6. In Chicago that more than 3.times higher and about 7.cl. I don´t know the significance of that but the doctor that gave me my injection told me that and said he followed the experiences from Chicago.


----------



## Maddyn

Mayer-Gross said:


> He only had it for nearly a year. There has been done several investigations into the CNS of DP patients. It is likely to be a disorder at CNS level with both disruptions in the sympathetic and para-sympatric systems. PTSD is for 80% of those who have it a sympathetic disorder. 20% of them have a dissociative/para-sympathic subtype with DP symptoms.
> 
> I don´t think DP will go away just sudden. It is a delusion related to the sudden outset of the state that it will also go away sudden. But, the disorder didn´t become chronic at the sudden outset but by the panic, high stress levels for months after. That response made the chronic state and made some imbalances in the CNS. With SGB you try to stop the overactivity of the sympathetic system and it might take the disorder in some but in the majority is will open up for more flexibility for changes that was not there before. The CNS has to reset itself.


So what does that last bit of what you said exactly mean? That it will open up for more flexibility for changes that was not there before?


----------



## 35467

Maddyn said:


> So what does that last bit of what you said exactly mean? That it will open up for more flexibility for changes that was not there before?


There is a "fight and flight response" in DP that keeps a para-sympatric defensive state up,-DP. The this defensive state is also a suppressor of a social/ safe para-sympatric state. Taking out the fight and flight response will not make the social para-sympatric state come back at once. There might also still be a fight and flight response that is purely of cognitive nature that will keep it up. People with PTSD that gets a SGB are told to stay with other interventions and many finds them suddenly more productive-so there is more flexibility after a SGB.


----------



## oolongmonkey

I also received the SGB from Dr. Lipov. It didn't don anything for me unfortunately. Having said that, I dont want to discourage anyone as there were people who came out of the procedure literally jumping for juoy.

Many authorities claim that DP is a result of the parasympathetic response. I agree wholeheartedly. I don't have much anxiety, if at all, I'm almoston the opposite end of the spectrum where I am so dull, dead, unmotivated and fatigued. I fall asleep like a rock, could sleep for seemingly forever and never feel rested. One with heighted sympathetic response is one who would be overly jumpy when startled, me, you could tell me a nuke is headed for Chicago and I would yawn. I would be interested in Lipov would be willing to do an injection which focuses more on the parasympathetic branch.

I live in the area, if anyone wants to meet up or wants some recommendation on where to stay, where to eat, hit me up.


----------



## oolongmonkey

Mayer-Gross said:


> I had a C6 done a week ago. You are right that C6 and C7 are close to each other. Normally you block C6 with 2.cl of Anastasia but the dose I got and use in PTSD, was 7.cl, so there is not a lot of room around C7 for an injection.
> 
> The PTSD patients have a high activity in the sympathetic system and most respond to there symptoms right away like; anger, outburst. Their symptoms related to DP like detachment, numbing starts to reduce after 4.weeks and on.
> 
> DP is likely to be a para-sympatric immobilisation/shot down response. The CNS says "I can´t fight and flight, so i shot down". Taking out the "flight and flight response" will not normalise the para-sympatric system at once. The safe and social part of the para-sympatric system has been suppressed by the defensive part. So, one has to stimulate the social/safe part. I use something called a "heart rate variability biofeedback" system that co-ordinates breathing and the CNS so the safe part of the para-sympatric system is stimulated. Taking out the overactivity out the sympathetic system gives room for that proces. So, the state is related to PTSD but there is the para-sympatric dimension to it also. There are sevel studies of the CNS in DP and it is disrupted in that level.
> 
> Here is something about stimulation of the vagus nerve with breathing. There is biofeedback devices to smartphone with sensors and an app or devices like Emwave or stresserazor. But this guide is also ok; https://eiriu-eolas.org/2013/06/29/its-very-easy-to-deal-with-your-anxiety-using-your-vagus-nerve/
> 
> I will take some months to see is there is more flexibility to my state and then i will go for another injection of the C3 and C6 or C7
> 
> i think i have paid around the same and it was around two hour with a doctor and a nurse. One hour consultation and then injection and surveillance after to see its everything was ok.


I agree 100% with what you are saying. I believe that soe have more of a sympathetic/parasympathetic DP and some have a parasympathetic DP. Do you use MeartMath? How long, how often do you use, have you noticed and results? I too own the equipment and have considered starting it.


----------



## 35467

oolongmonkey said:


> I agree 100% with what you are saying. I believe that soe have more of a sympathetic/parasympathetic DP and some have a parasympathetic DP. Do you use MeartMath? How long, how often do you use, have you noticed and results? I too own the equipment and have considered starting it.


No, i have a stresserazor that is older and with a different design than Emwave/HeartMath. I have used it extensively for a periode around 2012 but after the SGB was done 2 weeks ago a have started it again. I might have access to some dimensions of the para-sympatric system now.

When did you have your SGB?


----------



## XBrave

people, it's all about dosage. if you're injected with a small amount of it, it will probably NOT WORK. just like too much Geodon injection that can put you in coma and would probably reset the parasympathetic nervous system. this has to be done in the larger dose by people who can get it and report how it affects them. the larger dose dose i believe is used for pain not for ptsd or vice versa?


----------



## oolongmonkey

Mayer-Gross said:


> No, i have a stresserazor that is older and with a different design than Emwave/HeartMath. I have used it extensively for a periode around 2012 but after the SGB was done 2 weeks ago a have started it again. I might have access to some dimensions of the para-sympatric system now.
> 
> When did you have your SGB?


About 4 weeks ago. and XBrave, I had two injections my life eye was drooping for like 2 days afterwards, he hit me really good with it. Not idea what the injection sites were.


----------



## 35467

oolongmonkey said:


> About 4 weeks ago. and XBrave, I had two injections my life eye was drooping for like 2 days afterwards, he hit me really good with it. Not idea what the injection sites were.


I had the same problem after a C6 2.weeks ago. I think they also might have given you a C3. You shall be aware that in PTSD the DP like symptoms starts reduce after "2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:

feeling distant or cut off
feeling emotionally numb
irritability or angry outbursts
difficulty concentrating"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365

It is the "fight and flight response" that SGB takes out a overactivity in. It might have kept the para-symptic "shot down response" up but according to the "Poly vagal theory" this defensive response can only be suppressed and taken out by the social/safe para-sympatric system. You can stimulate that with your heart math/emwave. So, try to work with that and see it you can get access to the para-sympatric state for some months

It is the old part of the para-sympatric system that makes DP. The un-myalated vagus/slow vagus. The myalated vagus is the safe and social part. There are two para-sympatric systems and we are in the defensive one.


----------



## oolongmonkey

Mayer-Gross said:


> I had the same problem after a C6 2.weeks ago. I think they also might have given you a C3. You shall be aware that in PTSD the DP like symptoms starts reduce after "2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:
> 
> feeling distant or cut off
> feeling emotionally numb
> irritability or angry outbursts
> difficulty concentrating"
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365
> 
> It is the "fight and flight response" that SGB takes out a overactivity in. It might have kept the para-symptic "shot down response" up but according to the "Poly vagal theory" this defensive response can only be suppressed and taken out by the social/safe para-sympatric system. You can stimulate that with your heart math/emwave. So, try to work with that and see it you can get access to the para-sympatric state for some months
> 
> It is the old part of the para-sympatric system that makes DP. The un-myalated vagus/slow vagus. The myalated vagus is the safe and social part. There are two para-sympatric systems and we are in the defensive one.


I will continue with the heart math and let you know how it goes.


----------



## oolongmonkey

Mayer-Gross said:


> I had the same problem after a C6 2.weeks ago. I think they also might have given you a C3. You shall be aware that in PTSD the DP like symptoms starts reduce after "2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:
> 
> feeling distant or cut off
> feeling emotionally numb
> irritability or angry outbursts
> difficulty concentrating"
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365
> 
> It is the "fight and flight response" that SGB takes out a overactivity in. It might have kept the para-symptic "shot down response" up but according to the "Poly vagal theory" this defensive response can only be suppressed and taken out by the social/safe para-sympatric system. You can stimulate that with your heart math/emwave. So, try to work with that and see it you can get access to the para-sympatric state for some months
> 
> It is the old part of the para-sympatric system that makes DP. The un-myalated vagus/slow vagus. The myalated vagus is the safe and social part. There are two para-sympatric systems and we are in the defensive one.


I read about Poly-Vagl theory and thats when a light bulb when off about this being more of a para-sympathetic state. Your saying there is research that suggests the HRV can restore the parasympathetic system to normal? It's funny you mentioned the social aspect of the parasympathetic system. The only times I've "clicked back in" were during social situations, with friends and in supportive environments, talking, hanging out, there must be something this...


----------



## 35467

oolongmonkey said:


> I read about Poly-Vagl theory and thats when a light bulb when off about this being more of a para-sympathetic state. Your saying there is research that suggests the HRV can restore the parasympathetic system to normal? It's funny you mentioned the social aspect of the parasympathetic system. The only times I've "clicked back in" were during social situations, with friends and in supportive environments, talking, hanging out, there must be something this...


HRV is stimulation of the myalated vagus/ safe/ social para-sympatric state and it is also a suppressor of the defensive vagus. So, you exercise it. If there was a overactive fight and flight response that fights the DP state and keeps it alive SGB might take that out or bring it to a more normal level. So, SGB will not do it alone and at once. It might be a tool and a overactive sympathetic system might kept DP chronic and alive.


----------



## oolongmonkey

Mayer-Gross said:


> HRV is stimulation of the myalated vagus/ safe/ social para-sympatric state and it is also a suppressor of the defensive vagus. So, you exercise it. If there was a overactive fight and flight response that fights the DP state and keeps it alive SGB might take that out or bring it to a more normal level. So, SGB will not do it alone and at once. It might be a tool and a overactive sympathetic system might kept DP chronic and alive.


If HRV is stimulaton of the para-sympathetic state what do you think about the theory that DP is largely an over-active parasympathetic state? Could that not exacerbate symptoms? I ask this, because my DP was triggered by excessive mediation and things that are parasympathetic in nature(mediation, deep relaxation, trance music, massage) often make me feel worse. Many in the field believe this to be the case.


----------



## 35467

It might be. But, there are two branches of the para-sympatric system and HRV stimulates the opposite part of the para-sympatric system. HRV is not meditation.


----------



## Broken

Sorry mayer-gross, when you say para sympatric do you actually mean para sympathetic?? 
Also in my experience this seems very sympathetic in nature.. if your parasympathetic system was overactive you would be falling asleep and super relaxed. I feel super tense, can't relax, and struggle with sleep. Any tiny sound wakes me up. I'm open minded to us all having different things wrong with our nervous system causing our symptoms.. but I think the majority would have an overactive stress response (sympathetic)


----------



## 35467

Broken said:


> Sorry mayer-gross, when you say para sympatric do you actually mean para sympathetic??
> Also in my experience this seems very sympathetic in nature.. if your parasympathetic system was overactive you would be falling asleep and super relaxed. I feel super tense, can't relax, and struggle with sleep. Any tiny sound wakes me up. I'm open minded to us all having different things wrong with our nervous system causing our symptoms.. but I think the majority would have an overactive stress response (sympathetic)


Yes, it is also what i have been written before that in this thread. The CNS has some strategies to danger; the sympathetic "fight and flight" and it that fails immobilisation/shot down. DP is immobilisation/shot down response and there might be an overactive flight and flight response that keeps the immobilisation response up. SGB might take out this overactive sympathetic fight and flight response, -but no normalised the para-sympathic system that is divided in two systems.


----------



## Broken

Sorry just noticed you are from denmark so english probably isnt your first language. Was just a little confused  cool, hopefully someone tries it soon so we can find out if it helps!


----------



## 35467

Broken said:


> Sorry just noticed you are from denmark so english probably isnt your first language. Was just a little confused  cool, hopefully someone tries it soon so we can find out if it helps!


It is the automatic spelling that comes up with two different spellings and sometimes it is right and sometimes it is not. It usually is and i have overlooked that one.


----------



## Ray46

[quote name="ralex" post="473169" timestamp="1498691758"]Hi everyone, sorry for the delay in reply. I had the stellate ganglion block in two locations (I believe c6 and c3) with Dr. Lipov in Chicago last Friday. I'm currently still driving back home to Canada (couldn't fly as I had to bring a friend) so I have limited access to a computer until I get back on Friday. I will post a comprehensive response on Friday or Saturday once I'm back.

Would love to hear your comprehensive response


----------



## 99880

Broken said:


> Sorry mayer-gross, when you say para sympatric do you actually mean para sympathetic??
> Also in my experience this seems very sympathetic in nature.. if your parasympathetic system was overactive you would be falling asleep and super relaxed. I feel super tense, can't relax, and struggle with sleep. Any tiny sound wakes me up. I'm open minded to us all having different things wrong with our nervous system causing our symptoms.. but I think the majority would have an overactive stress response (sympathetic)


Not keen to hijack this thread but there appear to a few misconceptions surrounding the parasympathetic response during certain forms of trauma. leading to dissociative shutdown.

Posting a link to a thread I started a while back- It was only posted because I've experienced dissociative shutdown repeatedly (unfortunately) and am familiar with the parasympathetic dominance involved and the states it may lead to.

It all makes for interesting reading:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/56065-trauma-the-shutdown-dissociation-scale-shut-d/


----------



## mrt

Anyone else have one coming up?


----------



## Maxx

-


----------



## Ray46

I'm still wondering if C6, C3 and C7 are the only ganglions which can be blocked...


----------



## bintuae

But I don't have PTSD neither tinnitus or any physical pain. should I lie to them?

My DP/DR started after coming off antidepressants. All ADs I've tried after that and even mutivitamins (one saying it supports nervous system) worsen my dp so I guess the problem lies in the nervous system.


----------



## Crazyboy

Is there a conclusion on what works/what he took? C3+C6?


----------



## 106473

yeah it has gone quiet.

OP + 2 members so far?


----------



## mrt

If the SGB essentailly resets the central nervous system, or puts into into a more malleable state maybe the SGB then RTMS wold be a good combo. Would be expensive to find out though.


----------



## Ray46

I'm wondering where the guy "ralex" from page 16 is. He said he received C6 + C3 shot from dr. lipov. I hope he's doing well..


----------



## <AGENT>teh345

Kind of disappointed this thread has gone stale. I was pretty hopeful about this treatment.


----------



## TDX

> Does anybody know where I can get this done in Germany?


If you google "stellatum blockade" you should find something.

Some examples:

http://www.schmerz-hannover.de/schmerzpraxis-schmerztherapie/behandlungsspektrum/invasive-methoden/stellatum/

http://www.rommel-klinik.de/leistungen/therapiekonzept/morbus-sudeck.html

http://www.schmerzpraxis-wiesbaden.de/praxis/angebote.html

The only question is if they would do it for depersonalization disorder. For PTSD there might be a small chance, because there is some scientific literature concerning it's experimental use for PTSD. But for depersonalization disorder there is nothing. The first post of this thread is currently the only evidence that this treatment could be worth a closer look. But this might not be enough for many doctors. I don't want to say that it is futile to try, but convincing them to try this treatment for a mental disorder they probably never heard about might be a challenge.



> Kind of disappointed this thread has gone stale. I was pretty hopeful about this treatment.


This treatment is a bit invasive and usually not used to treat mental disorders. I suppose many people here are willing to try it, but actually getting it is another thing.


----------



## cheplwe

Does anyone know if the Bristol clinic does C6/C7/C3 same as Dr Lipov?


----------



## 106473

cheplwe said:


> Does anyone know if the Bristol clinic does C6/C7/C3 same as Dr Lipov?


Mayer-Gross said to me in a message about Bristol "C6 area for the first trial but said that two others might be tried later".

Is anyone waiting for this? I am still very interested


----------



## jessfrance

cheplwe said:


> Does anyone know if the Bristol clinic does C6/C7/C3 same as Dr Lipov?


You may ask to have the three at the same time and see whay he says. Nothing to loose in asking... Good Luck !


----------



## 35467

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Been emailing them, here's the messages so far;
> 
> *Me;*
> 
> "I am interested in the SBG nerve block for PTSD/PTSI, as I've heard you follow Dr Eugine Lipov's protocol. I have two questions, please take the time to answer both.
> 
> 1) Do you do up to 2 injections at C6 like Dr Lipov does?
> 
> 2) Please give me an exact quote, with no hidden extras... Please quote me for 2 injections at C6, 1 at C3, & 1 at C7; what would be the total cost?"
> 
> *Them;*
> 
> "Many thanks for your email:
> 
> 1. Consultation fee for Dr. Krishna is £275.00
> 2. Stellate ganglion block under ultrasound guidance will cost £895.00 (C6 level)
> 3. We recommend a 2nd injection at C6 level after 2 weeks (£895.00)
> 4. Some patients may need an additional injection at C3 level (£595.00)
> 
> Please let us know if you have any other queries. There are no other additional costs."
> 
> *Me;*
> 
> "Dr Lipov does 2 injections at C6 on the same day. This is because some do not respond to just one. Will you do 2 on the same day as well?"
> 
> *Them;*
> 
> "If needed, after an hour of the 1st injection, we will repeat it at C6 level for no extra cost."
> 
> *Me;*
> 
> That's good news! Thanks.
> 
> Do you do C7 at all?


Lipov injects 7.cl of anastisia into C6 that is close to C7. Some parts of the C7 will be affected by that dose. Lipov don´t inject again into the C6 again after the size of the first dose. He might have done that in some recordings from 2012 where he used less anatisia. Lipov blocks the the C6 in the first and comes back to see if the is any response and then he takes the C3 that is higher up. The blocking of both the C6 and C3 is by some called the "Chicago Block". The price is 1200.dollar or 920.punds for it all.


----------



## 106473

That's weird.... I swear i have an email with the consultants price lower than £275... i'll search for it tomorrow before spreading lies. You are doing good on donations!!! wish there was a way to ping it around the forum without spamming... we could easily do it.


----------



## 35467

The fee of 275 is right.

He injects 7.cl into C6 as Lipov does. C6 is close to C7 and as others have written there isn´t room for an injection into C7 after that. Lipov have said that they don´t do that for that reason to a patient in this tread. All trails with SGB for PTSD is C6 only. Lipov do give an injection if people don´t respond to C6 after 30-45.min into C3. C3 is higher up and there is room for a blocked there. The combination of C6 and C3 is called "The Chicago Bloc" by some.

So, to say that you can get an injection again into C6 is costless and salestalk. If you get 7.cl there isn´t room for more after that. You will have symptoms of a blockade of C6 like eye-lid, hot feelings. There will be no other C6 injections because you have the somatic symptoms of C6 blockade.

A C3 is more relevant if there is no response to a C6.

The cost of a C6 and C3 in Chicago is 1200.dollars or 925.punds all done in the same day.

The cost of a C6 and C3 in Bristol

Consultation fee 275 punds and injection fee 895 punds. Total of 1170 punds or 1520 dollar.

Then you have to come another day for a C3 (without a new C6) a that costs 595 punds or 770.dollars.

The total price for a C6 and C3 is 275.punds +895.punds+595.punds. Total= 1765.punds or 2292.dollars

You have travelling costs for two journeys added to that and only one for Chicago.


----------



## 35467

Then there is the other claim "3. We recommend a 2nd injection at C6 level after 2 weeks (£895.00)"

That is new to me and i wasn't´t told that. So, where is the origins of this recommendation. Well, a trail for SGB for PTSD has recently been published. Their design is a injection into the C6 and a offer to do it again 2.weeks after". That is a design for a trial.

But, DP and PTSD is different and the DP symptoms in PTSD patient like numbing, detachment stared to be reduced after 2-4.months(see the first post in this thread). So, you can´t really give a evaluation in a DP patients after some months.

The "open label" trails with patient done by Lipov has another design. A injection into the C6 and if there is no response with 45.min an injection into C3,- and many responds to the C3 being added. He also combines anastethics so two are given in combination in some patients.


----------



## TDX

Question to Autonomic Space Monkey: What effect did antipsychotics have on your symptoms?


----------



## 35467

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I wonder how many .cl Dr Lipov injects into C3


He properly gives the amount that there is room for. C6 is the largest of the ganglia and C3 is half that size. 2-3.cl ?


----------



## 106473

I hate the waiting game too, I really want 10 members to do this. See how it goes, my finances are slow, so count me out till after Christmas, got one member, i'll not name her and ASP.. that's all I know of right now.

Edit: Oh and a member considering another one


----------



## dead alive

I live in Brazil, I talked to an anesthesiologist and probably he will do the SGB for me, but I'm only going to have money in 2018


----------



## 35467

I found this text about SGB that is has been used for the treatment of the side-effect of the anti-malaria drug "larinam" since the 1950. Larinam can make DP and PTSD like symptoms in some. I know one in Denmark that go DP from larinam.

http://nation.time.com/2013/02/13/a-potential-rx-for-ptsd/

There is a pain doctor close to Chicago in La Fayette that gives SGB for 500.dollars.( it might only be for veterans) Likely to be only in C6. La Fayette is a 18.dollar bus trip from Chicago;

http://drkochert.com/therapy-procedures/ptsd-therapy


----------



## davinizi

I'm not sure if I have posted already about neural therapy, but it's more of an alternative medicine field that also uses anesthetic injections ( Procaine (also known as Novocain)) in certain places.

Text below copied from this article giving examples of how NT can be helpful in treating complicated psychiatric conditions for patients who failed conventional psychiatric interventions.

Several theories explain how Neural Therapy (NT) works9. In short, its action is based on restoring function of dysregulated autonomic nervous system (ANS) activity which controls the function of all internal organs. Every ANS center functions independently controlling a particular part of the body or organs but has multiple connections. The ANS components are highly sensitive and interdependent. Some factors, like scars, dental abscesses or infections can create so called interference fields. They can affect the functioning of the ANS creating difficulty in diagnosis and treatment of symptoms such as headaches, hormonal disturbances, sleep and anxiety issues. However, these conditions are often resolved by using NT therapy.

..

Other NT injections for psychiatric conditions

Some other injections are very helpful. Thyroid gland injections are helpful for anxiety and panic attack. Injections around the scull, "Crown of Thorns" have multiple indications including in psychosis, cloudiness of the mind and anxiety issues. One of the most examined injections is *Stellate ganglion injection *for treatment of PTSD.27-31. It has been studied and practiced by anesthesiologists in the Veteran's Administration. It requires very special training and equipment, like sonogram or X-Ray, as it is considered to be of high risk. However, as part of NT it is administered in a very different manner, which is safe and does not require any special equipment.

So it seems like neural therapy is another method that could have the same effects as the SGB? Anybody wants to try this?

Here more on neural therapy.


----------



## Thatgirlbrooke

Amazing thanks for sharing


----------



## 106473

Many thanks Davinizi, i'd try either but it's a waiting game with me till after Christmas, dying for some more SGB.

The Natural Therapy seems good too, but I am struggling to find anywhere that offers it that can give a base price, Harley Street thing I read said 10 sessions, i've been to Harley Street and 10 anything there is major money. Wonder if we could work out how much we are talking?

I don't get why this thread is so over looked or why more haven't jumped on this. I'll have to do more research on Natural Therapy, I am struggling to find much on it at all, I can find the history, but not somewhere that offers this and lays out a price


----------



## 35467

3.people had a SGB block done besides the author. I am one of them and i had a C6 done in Bristol 3.months ago. The 2.others had a C6 and a C3 done in Chicago.

I know one of them from FB and as he has written here he had DP quite recently and have never had panic or anxiety in relation to DP. That is important because a stress related "fight and flight response" has never been mobilised in relation to his disorder. His DP is in that sense atypical and a sedation of the flight and flight system with a SGB might adress a symptom he never had. If a SGB should have a place in DP a constant "fight and flight" response has to be there under the DP symptoms. Many fight and obsess about the symptoms and have had a history of high levels of stress and anxiety. The CNS in DP can be in a para-sympatric immobilisation mode due to the fight and flight system is active. It tries to take it down.He have never had this history and he should have gone better. I would exclude him due to his history and symptoms. The female from Canada haven't responded despite she said she would.

My position is this. I don´t expect DP to go away suddenly with a SGB into the sympathetic system because the disorder is immobilisation response to a "fight and flight" system that is saying "danger is still here". DP might have come suddenly but the disorder became chronic over a periode to 3-6.months in most by servere stress and anxiety. That periode made the disorder in both cognition, behaviour and also made servere imbalances in the CNS between the sympathetic and para-sympatric system. To take out a stress related overactivity sympathetic system with a SGB will not give a rapid response because the para-sympatric system has to readjust. It takes some time. DP related symptoms like detachment, numbing in PTSD patients given to people with PTSD stated to go away after 2-4.months as written in the first post here. So, SGB might take out a somatic overdrive in the sympathetic system but if you on a cognitive level is still in a "fight and flight" state the DP is kept alive by that. So, SGB might not due it alone or suddenly.

I have the last month suffered from servere dizziness, dissociation symptoms have change character a is experienced more unstable. The state is not pleasant. I plan to have another SGB done i will write to chicago the coming days to see if i can get an appointment. I live in Denmark and it is 12.hours flight but to have a SGB of both C6 and C3 is worth a try. Many with PTSD don´t respond to a C6 alone. Some with PTSD that have had a SGB done respond for a week and symptoms come back.There is an alternative to a SGB done with an anastethic and that is an inhibition of the C6 and C3 done with a dua pulse radiofrequency injection. The inhibition should last much longer. This can be offer in Chicago but not as a first treatment and it might be more expensive. If they know me that could be an alternative if a see a partiel response to the second SGB.http://www.kenscholes.com/ptsd/one-year-update-on-my-most-recent-ptsd-stellate-ganglion-block-from-dr-lipov/


----------



## 35467

An alternative to a SGB with anastethia that might last longer.

Successful Use of Stellate Ganglion Block and Pulsed Radiofrequency in the Treatment of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: A Case Report.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/prt/2010/963948/


----------



## Ray46

I'm still wondering if C6, C3 and C7 are the only locations which can be injected in one session...


----------



## 35467

Typically a SGB was at C7, but the ganglion is close to the lungs and blood vessels and there is some small risks. So, they go a little higher at C6 and place the injection close to the upper start at C7. The difference between Bristol and Chicago is that some benefit for the addition of adding a C3 to the C6. In Chicago they do that the same day with no additional cost. Bristol is only a C6 and you have to come back for a C3 another day for pay a separated fee with no C6. You could inject into other sympathetic ganglia than C3, C6 and C7 This is sympatric ganglion that controls vital processes in the CNS like breathing. So, to take other ganglions than them might kill you. So, there is nothing to wonder about and there is no publications that mentions other ganglia than C3, C6 and C7.


----------



## 35467

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> When you had it done in Bristol, was it an evening clinic you went to?


I think so. It was under the NHS and they rented some rooms there but the location was used by people under the NHS.I think it as open to 8.pm on normal days. Willow Surgery, Hill House Road, Downed Bristol.


----------



## 35467

It can be a nurse you have corresponded with. If they would inject in two different levels it would have been C6 and C3. As i said many don´t respond to a C6 alone. So, to offer you a C6 and C3 the same day , they didn´that to me, then it is a progress. I have been there, -and you havn´t. He follow and reads the literature on this subject. I thought it was expensive only to have a seperate C6 in one day and a C3 the other and pay for them separately. If you have been offered a C6 and a C3 the same day it is a progress. But it seems to me you don´t.


----------



## 35467

You have properly been in contact with the nurse. He follows the formal publications in relations to SGB for PTSD and refers to them on his site. So, it you repeatedly asks a nurse for the dose "and don´t trust them" because she can answer and she refers to the doctor. All formal publications are almost all related to a SGB into the C6 only and a injection at a site that affects the C7 partially. He follows that procedure. The problems i have with the place is the costs and that it is a C6 only or a C3 only on different days to a separate price. Informally many respond to an addition of a C3 to the C6 and it is done in Chicago. That he don´t do and so you stand with something that is partially tried by a C6 alone. You then said that 4.have tried and it don´t work. If you read what wrote,-that is if you take me seriously, you see that the canadian women said there was a difference. i have said there was and change and it might it might take some time for the CNS to readjust in DP. One had the disorder recently and have never had anxiety or a fight and flight response to DP. So, to block a overactivity in the sympathetic system he never had is not relevant. He is by the way getting better. Many with PTSD need several injections 2-3. I am going to have a injection into C6 and C3 and have asked chicago for a dual pulse radiofrekvency blocked that is more potent -it might also be more expensive. But i have facial pain and tension headaches that i got from stress when DP came. We know that repeated SGB once a day for 7.days might take pain from oversensitive nerves from high stress. This procedure makes the same effekt in one day.


----------



## WilliX

Hello,

I am a drug induced DP suffer going for SGB treatement in Chicago on Thuersday.

After making a lot of researche for the past 2 years. I had concluded even before I found out this procedure exsited that in some cases DP was a symptome of PTSD.

I think that nearly all drug induced DP symptomes stem from a PTSD reaction.

For example, the first reactiom of PTSD is acute stress disorder.

Many of the drug induced sufferers I know had a horrible intense DP/DR for weeks or month after the badtrip and then synptomes dimished but stayed present.

I want to ask to all the suffereres that went for SGB cause of their DP symptomes.

As we can see the only responder on that forum the had a drug bad trip induced DP symptomes.

Symptomes from DP can be present in many conditions and it can be unrelated to PTSD.

Thank you


----------



## 35467

WilliX said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a drug induced DP suffer going for SGB treatement in Chicago on Thuersday.
> 
> After making a lot of researche for the past 2 years. I had concluded even before I found out this procedure exsited that in some cases DP was a symptome of PTSD.
> 
> I think that nearly all drug induced DP symptomes stem from a PTSD reaction.
> 
> For example, the first reactiom of PTSD is acute stress disorder.
> 
> Many of the drug induced sufferers I know had a horrible intense DP/DR for weeks or month after the badtrip and then synptomes dimished but stayed present.
> 
> I want to ask to all the suffereres that went for SGB cause of their DP symptomes.
> 
> As we can see the only responder on that forum the had a drug bad trip induced DP symptomes.
> 
> Symptomes from DP can be present in many conditions and it can be unrelated to PTSD.
> 
> Thank you


you wrote to me less than an hour ago in a PM that;

"Because each brain is different.

I am launching a researche programme in my country.

Custome made rTMS using brain mapping technology.

I had rTMS for PTSD done and it helped me."

How come you now suffer from DP and not PTSD as you wrote? Why are you going to Chicago for a SGB if you are helped by rTMS?


----------



## WilliX

Because rTMS helps to reduce symptomes but do not get reed of the disorder.

I want a more radical reponse as a treatement.


----------



## WilliX

For me DRUG INDUCED DP is not DP. I would call it drug induced PTSD with dissociative symptomes.

My programme is somthing else. I would like to keep it private at the moment . That is why I sent you a private message.

Pls do not post that on the forum ????.

Thank you


----------



## 35467

WilliX said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am a drug induced DP suffer going for SGB treatement in Chicago on Thuersday.
> 
> After making a lot of researche for the past 2 years. I had concluded even before I found out this procedure exsited that in some cases DP was a symptome of PTSD.
> 
> I think that nearly all drug induced DP symptomes stem from a PTSD reaction.
> 
> For example, the first reactiom of PTSD is acute stress disorder.
> 
> Many of the drug induced sufferers I know had a horrible intense DP/DR for weeks or month after the badtrip and then synptomes dimished but stayed present.
> 
> I want to ask to all the suffereres that went for SGB cause of their DP symptomes.
> 
> As we can see the only responder on that forum the had a drug bad trip induced DP symptomes.
> 
> Symptomes from DP can be present in many conditions and it can be unrelated to PTSD.
> 
> Thank you


Good luck with your SGB injection on Thursday in Chicago.

I have been in correspondence with them (too??) and in an mail from today they/Greg wrote; "We perform the procedures on several Fridays a month. Once approved for the procedure, we can advise you of our next available dates"


----------



## WilliX

Thank you mayer.

I will hold you aware of progress.

Just the airplane for me will be a challenge ad I am Withdrawaling Valium as well. Have been on withdrawal for 270 days now.

????????????????????????????


----------



## 106473

Anything to report WilliX?


----------



## TDX

> Is there any chance you can get this procedure done with diagnosed DP disorder by the clinics that offer it for PTSD?


There are basically two ways:

1. Ask them if they do it for depersonalization disorder, or...

2. Pretend to have the so-called dissociative subtype of PTSD.


----------



## WilliX

Guys,

Had the SGB done in Chicago. No effect.

Its not PTSD....

Alll my apologies.

I have interressting lab results I wanted to post.

Can put pictures online ....


----------



## WilliX

yes 2 injections.


----------



## davinizi

Sorry it didn't work for you WilliX. Would you or anybody else be willing to try the Sphenopalatine Block? Once done by a doctor it can be taught to do it yourself at home apparently, though I would be wary to stick things up your brain..


----------



## braingroundwork76

Wow how can I get this? I have neck soarness. Thanks


----------



## bouquet

Hello,

I first had this feeling of 'spaced out' when I woke up with an incredibly stiff neck (where the base of my skull meets the neck, which is still there, along with some pain in my left arm),I actually thought this spaced-out feeling was marijuana-induced derealization only, that happened a month after my first ever smoking experience. Doctors usually seem to think it is stress only, but I didn,t really experience this kind of a neck problem before; does anyone have any similar symptoms here that comes with smokin? From what I know people usually only have this detached, spaced out feeling coming on its own after smoking without neck problems...can this be based on unusual stiffness at the lower back area, you think?

Thank you very much for the discussion, hope everyone here continue with their updates =)


----------



## luctor et emergo

WilliX said:


> Guys,
> 
> Had the SGB done in Chicago. No effect.
> 
> Its not PTSD....
> 
> Alll my apologies.
> 
> I have interressting lab results I wanted to post.
> 
> Can put pictures online ....


Knowledge is power (sort of).

Please post them.

A shame SGB was not helpful.


----------



## nf12345

Hey guys new to this chat. I've had chronic dpdr for 16 years now and am going for the injection in 3 hours. Have had a diagnosis of c-ptsd as well so will keep updates


----------



## 106473

Good luck NF12345, when should I check in to see the update?


----------



## nf12345

Check around 6pm UK time


----------



## nf12345

6pm


----------



## nf12345

Had it done by Dr Krishna. Very hoatse voice at the moment and no "miracle" 3 minute results will keep posted


----------



## nf12345

Morning after but no real change to be honest as yet. PtSD effects have gone down a bit though


----------



## Ray46

You only had 1 injection right?


----------



## nf12345

Yeah just the one!


----------



## nf12345

Does anyone here think the SGB might have any effect on visual disturbances "I.e. I cant see through my own eyes shit". Also this might sound like one of the stupidest things ever said on dpselfhelp, but when I dpnxome into reality I am absolutely petrified :\ I have been in dream mode for 15 years straight bow and when I have had moment of clarity, I am simply terrified with the whole " omg I control myself now". I think a lot of it isntondo with feeling like a 7 year old when ibitual trauma occurred. What are your guys thoughts on that if it makes a difference.


----------



## nf12345

Going for some more shots today. 3 potentially in total...


----------



## PermanentBrainFart

Bumpity bump 

Very keen to hear the rest of your journey @nf12345

Good luck with it doing something for you!


----------



## ValleyGirl

Hi Guys. I have had dp for 8 years now and started posting here in 2009 under the username Tinyfairypeople, then ValleyGirl and ValleyGirl<3. I am going to Chicago next week to have the SGB done by Dr. Lipov.

In reading the clinical trial information from NAMI, they have found that the effects of this block on symptoms like detachment from reality and emotional numbness don't show marked improvement until 2 to 4 months post injection so I would be very surprised for anyone to see immediate results. Also, one very important piece that people seem to be missing is that DP/DR are not simple conditions and there will not be a simple quick cure. There is a reason why the human brain feels the need to dissociate and that reason usually happens long before a person actually develops dp/dr. There is some sort of trauma that happens to the brain at some point in life that causes the brain to feel the need to use dissociation as a means of escape and after that point some kind of catalyst comes along, such as a medication or panic attack or drug trip that imbalances the brain just enough to send us into this permanent dissociated state. But it is never the catalyst alone that causes the dp. If you get dp from a panic attack during a drug trip, it wasn't the drugs or the panic attack that gave you dp. It was the unresolved trauma that happened in your life way before that, that caused your brain to want to dissociate in the first place. In order to actually fully recover we all have to be honest about our past traumas and seek counseling to process and heal from those traumas in order for DP to go away. The thinking behind the SBG working is that DP feeds off of a constantly activate fight or flight response that tells us that we are in danger and the brain needs to keep us disconnected in order to protect us. The SGB works by hard resetting the fight or flight area of the brain but I feel that you also have to resolve your trauma because it will always still be there subconsciously effecting your conscious mind. The SGB can help you feel safer but it isn't going to cure you when you still have wounds inside of your brain making you feel unsafe. I think that this will be an excellent treatment for DP when paired with therapy and I think that people will have a much higher likelyhood of recovering when using the two together.


----------



## ValleyGirl

I forgot to add my backstory to my post. My official diagnosis is Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with Depersonalization. So basically I have c-ptsd and the dp is a side effect of the ptsd. I got dp 5 years into a 10 year long abusive relationship. At first I had one of the most severe cases of full blown DP and DR that I have seen on this site. I went to bed normal one night and the next morning woke up feeling like I had just been born on some alien planet that I didn't recognize. I could not tell at all if I was still asleep or awake. I couldn't feel my body at all. If I closed my eyes I was sure I was going to disappear because I was so numb physically and had to keep a fan on me at all times just to feel something against my skin so I knew I was still existing. I lost all emotions except fear and sadness. I lost all memories of my life. Everyone and everything looked and left like a complete stranger to me, even my children. I felt like I had absolutely no idea who I was or where I was. I felt like a ghost, like a tiny little person trapped inside of a big robot body. My voice didn't sound like it belonged to me. Everything felt so numb and scary that I was paralyzed with fear and all I could do was lay in bed in the dark for the first year I had dp. I stopped eating, stopped bathing, just stayed in bed having panic attacks and making trips to the ER because I was sure I was dying or going insane and desperately begged for help. I ended up suicidal very quickly and self admitted to the hospital twice in hopes of finding some medication or something that would help me feel better. I spent a year trying pretty much every supplement and medication known to man and nothing helped my dp at all and almost all of them made it 1000 times worse. The only thing that did help was klonopin to keep me calm and taking d3 and b12 to keep myself from getting really extremely depressed again.

I decided right from the beginning that I absolutely refuse to accept that I will have dp long term so I started the very hard journey of doing whatever it took to recover. I read dp books, I have gone to counseling, I attended support groups for abuse victims, I set healthy boundaries for myself and removed people from my life that were hurting me, I eventually ended the abusive relationship I was in, I made myself get up and leave the house as much as possible and go out and enjoy the things I knew I used to like doing and over the course of the first 3 years I recovered probably about 90%. I have made very minimal and slow progress in the last 5 years to where I now feel almost no DP at all and like moderate to mild DR. The symptoms that I still have are feeling like I am half asleep all of the time, the pane of glass between me and reality, flat 2-D vision that looks like colors are too saturated and things are slightly cartoon like, and extreme memory loss. I still cannot remember most of my life, particularly the last 15 years and my short term memory is almost non-existent for the most part.


----------



## Mayday

Thanks for this story. Interesting.
I would like to try the shots.
Can someone help me in the right direction when you live in the Netherlands?


----------



## Mayday

No one?
Has someone did the SGB in their local hospital? Or is the SGB not working at all?


----------



## PermanentBrainFart

Has anyone had success from it being administered in the UK? Is this still holding up as a serious treatment? Thanks.


----------



## Mayday

PermanentBrainFart said:


> Has anyone had success from it being administered in the UK? Is this still holding up as a serious treatment? Thanks.


I've had mail contact yesterday with Dr. Lipov.
He said 50% depersonalization cured from it.


----------



## 106473

50%? i'd love some data on that, sounds too good to be true, but i'm an optimist so yeah, still on my todo list!


----------



## Mayday

CK1 said:


> 50%? i'd love some data on that, sounds too good to be true, but i'm an optimist so yeah, still on my todo list!


This was his answer exactly:

Hi

Basically patients fly in and we treat them in Chicago

Cost is 1500$

This approach works best on Ptsd

Hypervigelance sleep disorder 85%

Depersonalization 50%

Yours

Sent from my iPhone

Eugene Lipov MD

Chief Science Officer GPTSIF

Bringing REAL Hope to people with PTSI


----------



## Broken

Weird that he mentions hypervigelance sleep disorder... never heard of it but I definitely have that. Any noise wakes me up.. never get a good nights rest. Takes me a minimum of an hour to get off to sleep at night. Wake up exhausted. It is something I have wanted tested. I guess it is just a matter of overactive sympathetic nervous system preventing me properly relaxing or shutting down.. I am more intrigued by this procedure now.


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Not according to those that have had it done in this thread. Only the OP recovered, so far nobody else has.


How many did toke the shot then? Do there is a realistic overview already then? Not from 3 persons I guess...

Maybe Lipov had more patients then we know. I'm gonna ask him. Let you know later.


----------



## James2368

https://www.hsrd.research.va.gov/publications/esp/ganglionblock.pdf


----------



## ValleyGirl

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Not according to those that have had it done in this thread. Only the OP recovered, so far nobody else has.


Guys it takes a couple of months for this to take full effect. Its unrealistic to expect people to instantly recover.


----------



## nf12345

Had the last 3 shots not much difference unfortunately


----------



## Mayday

nf12345 said:


> Had the last 3 shots not much difference unfortunately


Then I rest my case i guess.
We need some more help from the medical world. I don't care about the money or shots in my neck. It's not enough anymore now


----------



## ValleyGirl

Mayday said:


> Then I rest my case i guess.
> We need some more help from the medical world. I don't care about the money or shots in my neck. It's not enough anymore now


I just got home from Chicago from having the SGB done by Dr. Lipov and within 30 minutes of the 2nd injection I noticed a change in my level of Derealization. Everything started looking sharper and more real. I also felt like a part of me that has been gone for a long time is waking up. The next day (yesterday) everything looked *almost* real and it felt like the DR was going to go away at any second. It kept coming and going through the day. My vision would switch between the dull/flat Dr vision and things looking real. It also feels like my experience of reality is changing and like a part of me that has been asleep a long time is waking up. I am not fully in reality yet but I just had the injections 2 days ago and I feel like this is very promising.

I had 2 injections, one at c6, which did absolutely nothing, and one at c3, which started working within 5 minutes. I will come back and write a full post on my experience in the next few days.


----------



## davinizi

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> Guys it takes a couple of months for this to take full effect. Its unrealistic to expect people to instantly recover.


Does dr Lipov says that or where did you got that from? BTW nice to hear you got much quicker results.

I'd like to know if the others who received the SGB shot(s) : what type did they receive because I just read someone's review claiming that:

I continue to be amazed by* how much better the dual pulse radiofrequency SGB injection to the C3 and C6* *was in comparison to the previous five standard (Clonidine mix) SGB injections to the C6. *The pulseradiofrequency, I'm told,anesthetizes the region for three months as opposed to the eight hours that the standard provides. In the past, that standard SGB to the C6 had provided anywhere from 6 to 15 months of relief with two blocks (September '12 and June '14) failing to hold up to post-treatment re-triggering events within 30 days of the SGB. I've seen remarkable results with the new one and have no idea when I will need another. * **full review here*


----------



## Surfingisfun001

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> I just got home from Chicago from having the SGB done by Dr. Lipov and within 30 minutes of the 2nd injection I noticed a change in my level of Derealization. Everything started looking sharper and more real. I also felt like a part of me that has been gone for a long time is waking up. The next day (yesterday) everything looked *almost* real and it felt like the DR was going to go away at any second. It kept coming and going through the day. My vision would switch between the dull/flat Dr vision and things looking real. It also feels like my experience of reality is changing and like a part of me that has been asleep a long time is waking up. I am not fully in reality yet but I just had the injections 2 days ago and I feel like this is very promising.
> 
> I had 2 injections, one at c6, which did absolutely nothing, and one at c3, which started working within 5 minutes. I will come back and write a full post on my experience in the next few days.


That's incredible!


----------



## ValleyGirl

davinizi said:


> Does dr Lipov says that or where did you got that from? BTW nice to hear you got much quicker results.
> 
> I'd like to know if the others who received the SGB shot(s) : what type did they receive because I just read someone's review claiming that:
> 
> I continue to be amazed by* how much better the dual pulse radiofrequency SGB injection to the C3 and C6* *was in comparison to the previous five standard (Clonidine mix) SGB injections to the C6. *The pulseradiofrequency, I'm told,anesthetizes the region for three months as opposed to the eight hours that the standard provides. In the past, that standard SGB to the C6 had provided anywhere from 6 to 15 months of relief with two blocks (September '12 and June '14) failing to hold up to post-treatment re-triggering events within 30 days of the SGB. I've seen remarkable results with the new one and have no idea when I will need another. * **full review here*


I read it in a paper published from a clinical trial of the SGB. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27612365/

"Patients reported greatest improvement in the first week after SGB for the following symptoms: irritability or angry outbursts, difficulty concentrating, and sleep disturbance. 2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following: feeling distant or cut off, feeling emotionally numb, irritability or angry outbursts, and difficulty concentrating".


----------



## ValleyGirl

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The OP recovered alomost immediately, & so does pretty much everyone with PTSD, so no.
> 
> Seems to have been fairly instant for you as well. Glad it's working out for you, & please keep us all updated,


Right, if they have ptsd. And probably only ptsd. Clinical trials have shown that emotional numbness and detachment from reality start showing marked improvement between 2 and 4 months post injection. See above.

Also thank you. I really hope it keeps up.


----------



## jossukka

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the forum, I've read this thread for some time but had problems with logging in and commenting so haven't posted before. I've had constant dp for about 20 years, I'm now 29.. Just started therapy with someone who understands dissociation and trauma. Before that I did some therapy mainly just to treat low self esteem and family issues.. Also tried neurofeedback but it didn't help me. But what I got from it was the understanding that I propably have ptsd.

I think I will soon try to make an appointment with dr Lipov even though I live far away. It would be so amazing if it gave any results. It's pretty descouraging to read that many people didn't respond to it but still I would like to give it a go and of course continue with other therapies. For a long time I thought that the dp would go away if I just had a stress free period in my life but that's really not the case.

-Johanna


----------



## nf12345

I'm going for final sgb shots tomorrow. Did come hugely into reality today but was such a fucking scary experience having been 24\7 fp for 17 years...


----------



## Mayday

nf12345 said:


> I'm going for final sgb shots tomorrow. Did come hugely into reality today but was such a fucking scary experience having been 24\7 fp for 17 years...


So it helped you?
How many times do you have to go totally?
I wish I lived closer to Chicago )-:


----------



## ValleyGirl

nf12345 said:


> I'm going for final sgb shots tomorrow. Did come hugely into reality today but was such a fucking scary experience having been 24\7 fp for 17 years...


Have you been getting c3 and c6? That is wonderful to hear that you experienced reality and I think very understandable it be freaked out. I have had one instance where my dp went away for like 5 minutes (about 2 years ago) and I started to panic because it felt like waking up from being asleep for a long time. Also the day after my SGB I was in the airport and everything looked so real that I was sure my Dr was going to go away at any second and I felt scared. 
Reality is very different than the experience of dp and just like we were used to reality and dp was terrifying to adjust to, reality is terrifying to adjust to after having dp for so many years. Just try to calm yourself when it happens and tell yourself that this is what you wanted in getting these shots, that you are safe, and everything is going to be ok.


----------



## Mayday

To anyone;

How many shots do you need totally?
And in how many days?
I have to travel from Europe to Chicago for this. Hope someone can give me details of the total treatment.


----------



## ValleyGirl

Mayday said:


> To anyone;
> 
> How many shots do you need totally?
> And in how many days?
> I have to travel from Europe to Chicago for this. Hope someone can give me details of the total treatment.


Dr Lipov gives 1 injection at c6 first and gives it an hour to see if you feel any different. If you don't, you can get the 2nd injection at c3. Once that is done you have to leave and come back later if you choose to get more injections. He has said that he sees the most results with the combination of c6 and c3.


----------



## Depowered

Mayday said:


> To anyone;
> 
> How many shots do you need totally?
> And in how many days?
> I have to travel from Europe to Chicago for this. Hope someone can give me details of the total treatment.


----------



## Depowered

You can do the same procedure in Bristol UK with dr Krishna ( spa painclinic ), some of the posters went there . 
According to them they can do C6 and C3. But if you wanna be sure you can email them.


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> And remember that in Bristol they'll only do C3, but will do C6 at a later date & for an extra £595! Might be cheaper & more effective to go to Lipov.


Lipov is only 1 consult?
And in Bristol is 2 consults?

And what is the cost of the C3 in Bristol?

€?? And €595


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Consultation in Bristol is £295, & C3 is £895. C6 is an extra £595, but they usually do it at a later date (you could ask them to do it on the same day).


Lipov € 1277 
Bristol spa € 2.011,95

Bristol is nearby...
Phew


----------



## Ray46

Can anyone do a Sphenopaltine Ganglion Block (SPG Block) ?
It's performed through the nose. It should have the same effect like a stellate ganglion block but is much cheaper.


----------



## ValleyGirl

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Consultation in Bristol is £295, & C3 is £895. C6 is an extra £595, but they usually do it at a later date (you could ask them to do it on the same day).


When I saw Dr. Lipov for the procedure he told me that the two injections at c6 and c3 need to be done within 2 hours of each other for the treatment to be effective. So having it done two separate times would not end up giving you the results you want. Also, Dr. Lipov does not charge a consultation fee. He charges $900 us dollars for the first injection and will do the 2nd for free the same day. The surgery center fee is $390 and the anesthesia fee is $210. So all together you pay $1500. Dr. Lipov requires you pay the $900 the week before the treatment and then you pay the other two fees at the surgery center the day of your treatment.


----------



## ValleyGirl

I wanted to give you guys a little update on how I am feeling 5 days after the SGB at c6 and c3. 
For the past few days my vision, which has been flat 2d and fake looking for 8 years has been changing to everything looking real. It comes and goes but it is so cool. I am also having periods where the world feels more real to me. Emotionally I have found that I am actually experiencing strong emotions instead of feeling numb. For instance I have never really been able to feel anything thinking about my grandma who I lost years ago and today I drove past where she used to work and thought about how much I miss her and started crying. Last night my husband said something that normally would have triggered my ptsd and sent me into a totally shut down mindset but I just instantly cried instead. That is a very big deal. These shots really are working.


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> When I saw Dr. Lipov for the procedure he told me that the two injections at c6 and c3 need to be done within 2 hours of each other for the treatment to be effective.
> 
> So having it done two separate times would not end up giving you the results you want. Also, Dr. Lipov does not charge a consultation fee. He charges $900 us dollars for the first injection and will do the 2nd for free the same day. The surgery center fee is $390 and the anesthesia fee is $210. So all together you pay $1500. Dr. Lipov requires you pay the $900 the week before the treatment and then you pay the other two fees at the surgery center the day of your treatment.


Kishna do also c3 and C6 in one day. For £1270


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Lipov is cheaper. But then we need to factor in travel & lodging if coming from a long way away.


Excactly. And it is a little bit different. I'm gonna post their reply below what the difference is. UK is closer for me. But traveling to USA is more expensive for me...


----------



## Mayday

The reply from Kishna;

The treatment will all be done in one setting: consultation, followed by injection at the 2 levels. We follow the same protocol as described by Dr. Lipov in his publications. The only difference is that Dr. Krishna performs the injection under real-time ultrasound guidance, rather than x-ray guidance used by Dr. Lipov. Ultrasound makes the injection much more accurate as you can see the stellate ganglion as well as all the surrounding tissues, which are not visible under Xray.

If Dr. Lipov has provided you his protocol in detail please forward it to us and we can check this out with Dr, Krishna. For your reassurance Dr. Krishna sees patients from all over the Uk and abroad.

Please let us know if you have any further queries.


----------



## Depowered

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Once you have it done Mayday, let us know if you do get C6 & C3 for the price of £1270. I was quoted £295 for a consultation, £895 for C3, & £595 for C6.


I got the following answer from the Krishna team in Bristol today :
Many thanks for your email. Yes it would be possible to get the C3 injection at the same time if needed. In fact we do not even wait for 2 hours. If things are not better within an hour we would proceed with injection at C3 level.

Costs in are clinic are as follows:

Consultation fee: £275.00
Initial injection at C6 level under ultrasound guidance: £795.00
Injection at C3 if needed under ultrasound guidance: £200.00

Please let us know if you have any further queries.

Best wishes

Pain Team


----------



## eddy1886

Depowered said:


> I got the following answer from the Krishna team in Bristol today :
> Many thanks for your email. Yes it would be possible to get the C3 injection at the same time if needed. In fact we do not even wait for 2 hours. If things are not better within an hour we would proceed with injection at C3 level.
> 
> Costs in are clinic are as follows:
> 
> Consultation fee: £275.00
> Initial injection at C6 level under ultrasound guidance: £795.00
> Injection at C3 if needed under ultrasound guidance: £200.00
> 
> Please let us know if you have any further queries.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Pain Team


The plot thickens!!!


----------



## nf12345

When I was with Dr Krishna yesterday he goes along very much with what the patient wants. I went for for the C3 C6 even though he said in his opinion he didn't think extra shots were needed. He is guided by what you want and he gave me exactly hat I asked for. Felt more with my surroundings again today on way to tms clinic in London at same time. Don't know whether SGB or just emotional release, but the SGB has seemed to have done something. I think the 2-4 month release fpr feelijg less detached hehdhhtome makes more sense to be honest at least from the x-ptad side of things Valleygiel as you said. My feeling in London a couple of days ago as like holy shit I'm actually talking to someone as myself nearly but the moment passed very quickly.


----------



## nf12345

The thing is Valleyfiel as well I that I have been in DP since the age of 7 so don't really have any recollection of reality to speak of. It's completely brand new for me but yeah anxiety went up like a rocket. I literally have no fucking clue what to do with myself as an autonomous person.


----------



## nf12345

On the Kricshna aide of infs I've been with him 3 times now, he advised you but if you think you know what you'd rather have he will go along with it.


----------



## nf12345

*Krishna side of


----------



## jossukka

I just called Dr Lipovs office and they said that sgb will cost 2000 dollars starting from january...


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Oh you go Eugine, you rape them there wallets! Two grand for a couple of injections? FUCK YOU!!!


Disappointed...
Only for rich people.
Most people can't work.
Bad news


----------



## Surfingisfun001

jossukka said:


> I just called Dr Lipovs office and they said that sgb will cost 2000 dollars starting from january...


Damn


----------



## James2368

Interesting arcticle in the Daily Mail about it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4597186/US-Army-invests-2million-injection-beat-PTSD.html


----------



## Mayday

James2368 said:


> Interesting arcticle in the Daily Mail about it.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4597186/US-Army-invests-2million-injection-beat-PTSD.html


Patients pay just under $2 for a dose of SGB.

Huh?
Okay


----------



## James2368

https://www.stripes.com/news/volunteers-wanted-for-ptsd-study-of-treatment-some-call-a-miracle-1.437955#.WT7ks28rJaQ

maybe join the army and voluteer???


----------



## 106473

Depowered said:


> I got the following answer from the Krishna team in Bristol today :
> Many thanks for your email. Yes it would be possible to get the C3 injection at the same time if needed. In fact we do not even wait for 2 hours. If things are not better within an hour we would proceed with injection at C3 level.
> 
> Costs in are clinic are as follows:
> 
> Consultation fee: £275.00
> Initial injection at C6 level under ultrasound guidance: £795.00
> Injection at C3 if needed under ultrasound guidance: £200.00
> 
> Please let us know if you have any further queries.
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Pain Team


Looks like I need to get saving. Does anyone know if 'drugs' count as PTSD to Bristol. The NHS accept it but i'm not flying over to get a consultation without them doing the injection... or i may need to change my story


----------



## davinizi

Have you all seen this? They are recruiting for clinical trials to measure Effectiveness and Acceptability of Stellate Ganglion Block for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder Symptoms  in Germany and the USA. But this was posted in march 2017 and oh shit you have to be a member of the army. *sigh* otherwise I would have wanted to participate.


----------



## davinizi

for this pilot study in California, you didnt have to be a member of the army but it was last updated in 2015.

Perhaps someone wants to email [email protected] Michael T Alkire, MD who started the pilot study


----------



## wexrcvyc65t79hgbuvd768ft

.


----------



## ValleyGirl

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Oh you go Eugine, you rape them there wallets! Two grand for a couple of injections? FUCK YOU!!!


He actually only charges $900 to do the procedure. It is the surgery center fee and the anesthesia fee that cost more. The surgery center was almost $400 and the anesthesia fee was over $200.


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> He actually only charges $900 to do the procedure. It is the surgery center fee and the anesthesia fee that cost more. The surgery center was almost $400 and the anesthesia fee was over $200.


How is it with your depersonalization?
Is it going better?
Ad were the SGB shots painful?


----------



## Mayday

To anyone:

I can do a SGB block in a local clinic. 
Not for ptsd. But against pain. 
Is that the same as lipov does?
Or does lipov has a special protocol?


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Mayday said:


> To anyone:
> 
> I can do a SGB block in a local clinic.
> Not for ptsd. But against pain.
> Is that the same as lipov does?
> Or does lipov has a special protocol?


I am wondering the same, as I have called a local doctor who does it and it is covered under my insurance, but I need a referral from my primary doctor. I am also wondering if I should ask for the referral for PTSD or for pain.


----------



## Mayday

surfingisfun001 said:


> I am wondering the same, as I have called a local doctor who does it and it is covered under my insurance, but I need a referral from my primary doctor. I am also wondering if I should ask for the referral for PTSD or for pain.


Me 2. I can get under my insurance. But I have to know, is it the same?
Hope someone can answer this question


----------



## James2368

http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ptsd-trauma-and-stressor-related/stellate-ganglion-block-fails-as-possible-ptsd-treatment/article/406455/

I found this article on the Psychiatry Advisor.


----------



## Mayday

James2368 said:


> http://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/ptsd-trauma-and-stressor-related/stellate-ganglion-block-fails-as-possible-ptsd-treatment/article/406455/
> I found this article on the Psychiatry Advisor.


I guess SGB don't help as I read it.
There are also no more updates from people here that it's getting better with them.
I'm going to cancel my appointment. Maybe later in the year. We'll see.


----------



## James2368

Mayday said:


> I guess SGB don't help as I read it.
> There are also no more updates from people here that it's getting better with them.
> I'm going to cancel my appointment. Maybe later in the year. We'll see.


Sorry I did not mean to post something negativ or put you off Treatment. It does not seem to be a miracle Treatment maybe just worked for some People......


----------



## Mayday

James2368 said:


> Sorry I did not mean to post something negativ or put you off Treatment. It does not seem to be a miracle Treatment maybe just worked for some People......


Yes and that's good to know. We have to be realistic also. And I was already in doubt because there were coming no more updates from people who already did the SGB. Not your fault.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Mayday said:


> I guess SGB don't help as I read it.
> There are also no more updates from people here that it's getting better with them.
> I'm going to cancel my appointment. Maybe later in the year. We'll see.


Can't hurt to try it


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Can hurt your bank balance though! Especially if you're poor. I've decided against it for now.


It's covered by his insurance. He seemed interested until someone posted a negative article about it. Truth is we won't know til we try.


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Can hurt your bank balance though! Especially if you're poor. I've decided against it for now.


Me to.
I need some more reviews and research.
No updates from anyone anymore. How is it with the people how have tried it?

I have to book flights and hotel and a big consult $ for the doctor. It's not peanuts all together.


----------



## James2368

I don't think that the injection has to be done by a doctor in the US. It is an off label treatment which seems to be effective for some people with DP / PTSD.

The injection can probably be done by various pain specialists as it is used to treat migraene as well.

You don't fly to Colombia to get Lamotrigine described by Sierra - Siegert either, or??


----------



## jossukka

I read that article but it didn't really change my mind about doing this. They are still researching it in the US military I think. I'm now thinking about going to Bristol but only in february or march after I get my diagnosis.

Maybe it's not a good idea to do the procedure if it's gonna bring a lot of financial stress.. if it doesn't work you could end up worse than before.


----------



## Mayday

surfingisfun001 said:


> It's covered by his insurance. He seemed interested until someone posted a negative article about it. Truth is we won't know til we try.


I just cancelled my payed appointment.
For the local clinic which probably is covered by my insurance i have to contact them. I'm not sure yet.

It's not only the article.
It's more that there is not updates comming from members here on the forum who already did the SGB. How are they? Maybe worse then ever? Same ? Better?....


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Mayday said:


> I just cancelled my payed appointment.
> For the local clinic which probably is covered by my insurance i have to contact them. I'm not sure yet.
> 
> It's not only the article.
> It's more that there is not updates comming from members here on the forum who already did the SGB. How are they? Maybe worse then ever? Same ? Better?....


More than likely people don't think to come back and post their progress after having already posted a time or two.

Personally I am interested in doing it. I think I will see if I can get the referral from my doctor and try to do it under my insurance. Probably won't happen til after the new year though, as I'm busy.

Like Autonomic Space Monkey said, it would be steep to do in Chicago for $2000 + flight + hotel for something that may or may not work.

Wish we could get a group of say 10+ people from here to try it and compare results.


----------



## <AGENT>teh345

surfingisfun001 said:


> More than likely people don't think to come back and post their progress after having already posted a time or two.
> 
> Personally I am interested in doing it. I think I will see if I can get the referral from my doctor and try to do it under my insurance. Probably won't happen til after the new year though, as I'm busy.
> 
> Like Autonomic Space Monkey said, it would be steep to do in Chicago for $2000 + flight + hotel for something that may or may not work.
> 
> Wish we could get a group of say 10+ people from here to try it and compare results.


Yeah I think its kind of messed up that people don't report back on something that has the potential to be so revolutionary for DP/DR sufferers.

Even if the results were negative, and its not as exciting to post about or pleasant, at least do others the courtesy before they shell out thousands to possibly have the same experience.


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> I wanted to give you guys a little update on how I am feeling 5 days after the SGB at c6 and c3.
> For the past few days my vision, which has been flat 2d and fake looking for 8 years has been changing to everything looking real. It comes and goes but it is so cool. I am also having periods where the world feels more real to me. Emotionally I have found that I am actually experiencing strong emotions instead of feeling numb. For instance I have never really been able to feel anything thinking about my grandma who I lost years ago and today I drove past where she used to work and thought about how much I miss her and started crying. Last night my husband said something that normally would have triggered my ptsd and sent me into a totally shut down mindset but I just instantly cried instead. That is a very big deal. These shots really are working.


Okay. Good!
How is it now???


----------



## Mayday

nf12345 said:


> I'm going for final sgb shots tomorrow. Did come hugely into reality today but was such a fucking scary experience having been 24\7 fp for 17 years...


Okay good!
How is it now???


----------



## davinizi

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Can hurt your bank balance though! Especially if you're poor. I've decided against it for now for this very reason.


Why not ask a regular anaesthesist to do the SGB if they are willing? Will cost less than what dr Lipov asks..


----------



## ValleyGirl

Just to make things really clear, I have seen an extremely low success rate with people who only had the injection at c6. It works for pain relief but just doesn't seem to work for helping with ptsd symptoms or dp symptoms. If you are going to get it done, you need to get c6 and c3 done within 2 hours of each other. This is the protocol Dr.Lipov has established and from my own personal experience, this is what works. I had the first SGB at c6 and felt nothing. I had the 2nd at c3 and felt the effects within 2 minutes. I am about 9 days post SGB and I feel amazing. I am calm, happy, relaxed. Everything looks more real and my mind is clearer and more awake. I am definitely functioning at a higher level of awareness than I was before. I feel more awake. My Dr always made me feel like I was 75% asleep all the time. I also have noticed that the severity of my mental state/how dp effects me is getting a lot better. Before the SGB I never knew how bad I was going to be mentally from day to day. I usually woke up extremely full of panic and disorientation and the level of my dp symptoms varied wildly from day to day. All of that has gone away since getting the SGB. I feel good every day. I haven't had a bad day mentally yet.

As far as getting the SGB with Dr. Lipov, you have to fill out some paperwork before he will agree to treat you because he only takes people with PTSD. So, if you want to be treated by him, write that you have ptsd. He never asked to see proof from my doctor or counselor or anything. Once he reviews your answers they call you to let you know if he can treat you or not.

If you are going to use your insurance, it won't pay for an SGB for ptsd. They only pay for pain. I would speak with whatever doctor they refer you to to see if they only inject c6 and if they do, either ask them to inject c3 as well or don't waste your money because c6 alone just doesn't work.

Hope this clears things up.


----------



## ValleyGirl

> teh345" data-cid="527146" data-time="1511846129">
> 
> Yeah I think its kind of messed up that people don't report back on something that has the potential to be so revolutionary for DP/DR sufferers.
> 
> Even if the results were negative, and its not as exciting to post about or pleasant, at least do others the courtesy before they shell out thousands to possibly have the same experience.


Are you just completely ignoring the fact that I keep coming back here every few days and updating my progress?


----------



## eddy1886

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> Just to make things really clear, I have seen an extremely low success rate with people who only had the injection at c6. It works for pain relief but just doesn't seem to work for helping with ptsd symptoms or dp symptoms. If you are going to get it done, you need to get c6 and c3 done within 2 hours of each other. This is the protocol Dr.Lipov has established and from my own personal experience, this is what works. I had the first SGB at c6 and felt nothing. I had the 2nd at c3 and felt the effects within 2 minutes. I am about 9 days post SGB and I feel amazing. I am calm, happy, relaxed. Everything looks more real and my mind is clearer and more awake. I am definitely functioning at a higher level of awareness than I was before. I feel more awake. My Dr always made me feel like I was 75% asleep all the time. I also have noticed that the severity of my mental state/how dp effects me is getting a lot better. Before the SGB I never knew how bad I was going to be mentally from day to day. I usually woke up extremely full of panic and disorientation and the level of my dp symptoms varied wildly from day to day. All of that has gone away since getting the SGB. I feel good every day. I haven't had a bad day mentally yet.
> 
> As far as getting the SGB with Dr. Lipov, you have to fill out some paperwork before he will agree to treat you because he only takes people with PTSD. So, if you want to be treated by him, write that you have ptsd. He never asked to see proof from my doctor or counselor or anything. Once he reviews your answers they call you to let you know if he can treat you or not.
> 
> If you are going to use your insurance, it won't pay for an SGB for ptsd. They only pay for pain. I would speak with whatever doctor they refer you to to see if they only inject c6 and if they do, either ask them to inject c3 as well or don't waste your money because c6 alone just doesn't work.
> 
> Hope this clears things up.


This is the best most definitve post Ive read on here for a long time if ever....Fair play Valley Girl.....We are all delighted for you....And thanks so much for the updates...Your experience and info is invaluable to the rest of us (Especially those with either CPTSD or PTSD) It may not work for us with the illegal drug induced DP but I can see amazing potetntial for those whos DP came about as a result of abuse etc.....In fact I can see where this would be very very useful for girls who have been either physically emotionally or sexually abused...

Well done miss!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nf12345

Update from my side. Mornings I am feeling like I am coming into my surroundings more and more and more. Am doing Tmts at the same time though as the stellate ganglion block so both probs having an impact although ad I said on previous post I did cone 99.99% into reality pre tmrs. I like valeeygirl have a diagnosis of c-ptsd so it might be a combination of everything. Ptsd symptoms definitely lowered though and it did say the numbing effect takes 2-4 months to go away post SGB. It really does take fucking tine and effort but ffs I've been 100% DP'd since the age of 7 (now 23) and I am coming out of it. It's a battle everyday for survival or happiness bla bla, catch 22 is the only reason I can afford these treatments is because of the trauma that put me there in the first place (insurance layout from dads car accident). I wish these treatments were cheaper. I mean this illness literally makes you feel like you don't exist, how much more hellish could that be?!?


----------



## Mayday

In the end of January I have an appointment covered by my insurance in the local clinic. 
First intake, then immediately the shots in C6 and C3.
Thx ValleyGirl2.0 and nf12345 for your updates. I appreciate that. I guess everyone here.


----------



## wexrcvyc65t79hgbuvd768ft

.


----------



## <AGENT>teh345

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> Are you just completely ignoring the fact that I keep coming back here every few days and updating my progress?


I wasn't specifically referring to you. Don't become so defensive.


----------



## ValleyGirl

> teh345" data-cid="527770" data-time="1511986566">
> 
> I wasn't specifically referring to you. Don't become so defensive.


You were ranting about how no one was coming back and updating. I've been updating every few days.


----------



## ValleyGirl

eddy1886 said:


> This is the best most definitve post Ive read on here for a long time if ever....Fair play Valley Girl.....We are all delighted for you....And thanks so much for the updates...Your experience and info is invaluable to the rest of us (Especially those with either CPTSD or PTSD) It may not work for us with the illegal drug induced DP but I can see amazing potetntial for those whos DP came about as a result of abuse etc.....In fact I can see where this would be very very useful for girls who have been either physically emotionally or sexually abused...
> 
> Well done miss!!!!!!!!!


Thank you. Well we hope that the SGB can help anyone with dp, not matter the cause, because dp feeds off of the same sources as ptsd which basically comes down to the sympathetic nervous system being constantly activated. Once that is reset and all of those extra sympathetic nerve fibers die off, the body goes back into a normal sympathetic state and the signals that feed dp should be gone, resulting in recovery. It should work. The problem is that people are either only getting c6 injections, readers are expecting an instant cure like the op had, and not enough people are updating progress so members on here think it doesn't work and is a waste of time and money. It will take a few months. I also feel that therapy in combination with the SGB is the best route to go as people who dissociate do so due to psychological wounds from the past and those will still be present unless properly dealt with.


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Both of those ideas are merely theoretical, stating them as if they are proven facts is misleading imho. There are plenty of recovery stories of people getting better which have nothing to do with psychology or nerve blocks.


I'm living 33 years with it now.
24/7. Don't know how I got it.
But i give it a try. End January.
I've tried so many things (even rTMS) nothing helped.
Dp is there, there is nothing that can reach it. Not even me..
It's a phantom


----------



## wexrcvyc65t79hgbuvd768ft

.


----------



## Mayday

delusionaloptimist said:


> Does anyone know how much time it takes until you get an appointment for the shots in Bristol?


About 2 days a week.
Mail them for available dates.
I asked a list for 2 months. There was plenty available, about 8 options.


----------



## James2368

ValleyGirl2.0 said:


> Thank you. Well we hope that the SGB can help anyone with dp, not matter the cause, because dp feeds off of the same sources as ptsd which basically comes down to the sympathetic nervous system being constantly activated. Once that is reset and all of those extra sympathetic nerve fibers die off, the body goes back into a normal sympathetic state and the signals that feed dp should be gone, resulting in recovery. It should work. The problem is that people are either only getting c6 injections, readers are expecting an instant cure like the op had, and not enough people are updating progress so members on here think it doesn't work and is a waste of time and money. It will take a few months. I also feel that therapy in combination with the SGB is the best route to go as people who dissociate do so due to psychological wounds from the past and those will still be present unless properly dealt with.


@eddy1886: Why should it not work with drug induced DP?


----------



## ValleyGirl

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Both of those ideas are merely theoretical, stating them as if they are proven facts is misleading imho. There are plenty of recovery stories of people getting better which have nothing to do with psychology or nerve blocks.


How the SGB works is proven fact. I was stating that it SHOULD WORK for dp because the way dp functions in the brain and the way ptsd function in the brain are very similar.

Why are you so negative and argumentative? If you think this won't work, cool, leave this thread and stop trying to piss on everything people post that is positive about this treatment. It makes no sense to come on here and constantly argue with people. We are trying to do something positive and find some relief and hope for people. If you think it won't work/its too expensive/there are better therapies we get that. You've made that clear. Go and get whatever treatment you think is better. It hope it helps. Just stop trying to crap all over the people who are trying to help. Its really annoying.


----------



## ValleyGirl

This is a really interesting read. A lady just posted an article in the dp community the other day that talks about all of the regions of the brain that contribute to dp symptoms and says that it is a right brain disorder. According to this, so is ptsd and that would explain why the SGB should work for dp.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/prt/2010/963948/


----------



## davinizi

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Maybe not for you, but it did work for the OP, & it has worked for lots of other people with PTSD. That said, I do agree that getting a C3 afterwards if there's no effect from the C6 is the best possible treatment.


I wonder if the OP's doctor literally told him he injected him in C6 or he just mentioned that because he read somewhere that's where they usually inject for an SGB?

quote from a medical text:



> Classic teaching of the SG block requires needle positioning at the level of C6, which safely places the needle anterior to the artery. However, needle positioning at the level of the C7 vertebral body is also performed.





> Several techniques of stellate ganglion block have been described. These include insertion of the needle at the level of C6, placement of the needle at C7, and the posterior thoracic approach.35 With C6 placement, the needle is placed in contact with either the C6 tubercle or the junction between the C6 vertebral body and the tubercle. The needle is withdrawn 1 to 2 mm and an initial test dose of 0.5 to 1 mL is injected, or volumes of 5 to 10 mL can be injected. *If the patient is positioned in reverse Trendelenburg, the injectate travels caudad and reaches the stellate ganglion and the upper thoracic sympathetic ganglia.*


So my guess is if you get a c6 shot in the reverse Trendelenburg position, you may get the same effects as a C3 shot? (and it would be cheaper lol) or perhaps it's the Trendelenburg position, seems more logical if C3 is above C6 that the position with feet elevated and head downwards makes the anesthesia go into C3 as well..since maybe the upper thoracic sympathetic ganglia are below C7 I'm not sure..



> The cervicothoracic ganglion sends gray ramus communicantes to the seventh and eighth cervical and first thoracic nerves and gives off a cardiac branch, branches to nearby vessels, and sometimes a branch to the *vagus nerve*.


This I find an interesting quote because it mentions the vagus nerve and I know this also has to do with trauma. There are exercises, called TRE (Trauma Release Exercises) which are designed to 'stimulate' the vagus nerve and thereby release stored trauma in the body. I wonder how often (with how many people) these branches are connected to the vagus nerve? Who knows, it might have something to do with why it works for some and not for others.

Another interesting quote in reference as to why some SGB's are successful and others not:



> The vertebral artery, which originates from the subclavian artery, passes anterior to the ganglion at C7 and enters the vertebral foramen, posterior to the anterior tubercle of C6 in 90% of cases. In the other 10% of cases, the artery may enter at C5 or higher. Recent studies have demonstrated that there is a variable thickness to the longus colli muscle which may affect block outcome and complications.13This may account for variable blockade and failed neurolysis in the presence of successful blockade.





> The first and second (*and occasionally the third*) intercostal nerves may be interconnected by postganglionic fibers from their gray rami; *these fibers* provide another pathway by which postganglionic nerves *pass from the upper thoracic ganglia to the brachial plexus.* These anomalous pathways have been termed Kuntz's nerves and are implicated in cases of inadequate relief of sympathetic mediated pain despite evidences of cervical ganglia block.


BTW injury of the branchial plexus has also been associated with depression.  link Perhaps another reason why the C3 shot may have a higher success rate.

Just trying to look for clues people..


----------



## 106473

davinizi

I know we all want to work this out, but seriously, the hard work on this has been done by experts such as Dr Lipov, who i am sure have tried every which way and he knows the science. C6 and C3 are both needed, it's that simple if you want to maximise your chances, from everything i've read, if anyone including you is doing this, don't cheap out and get just C6... what's the point, as we say in Ireland 'half a loaf and no bread'.

ValleyGirl2.0: My thoughts are very much aligned with you on this. This has worked for many PTSD and already people here with DP, with time it might even prove to be the most effective thing we have seen, I certainly haven't seen something with people like Dr Lipov quoting 50% overnight, so I don't get why people who haven't tried it have so much to say...

March is when I aim for, even if it just clears some anxiety and depression 50%, worth it to me


----------



## davinizi

CK1

First off, I'm posting these quotes because I have a personal interest in how these things work and why C3 might be working better, so I assume some others may find it interesting as well and secondly not everyone is going to fly from the other end of the world to be able to see Eugène Lipov for this and may have to try to convince other anaesthesists to get a C3 shot or try out that specific position with dr Lipov since he's so expensive, you never know if it may work just as well. And btw you don't know if Lipov has tried every single possibility. He's very much experimenting with all of this, so you shouldn't try to shun someone for wanting to think along. Also, Lipov doesn't seem interested in doing things the cheap way for his patients, so it would be naive to think that any other suggestion would be out of the question because Lipov isn't doing it. And another thing is, C6 and C3 are not always needed apparently, for some yes, for some others not. That was also my point of my little research. If you prefer to blindly follow doctor's orders, then be my guest. You can also just ignore my post if you have no scientific curiosity whatsoever.


----------



## 99880

ValleyGirl said:


> This is a really interesting read. A lady just posted an article in the dp community the other day that talks about all of the regions of the brain that contribute to dp symptoms and says that it is a right brain disorder. According to this, so is ptsd and that would explain why the SGB should work for dp.https://www.hindawi.com/journals/prt/2010/963948/https://repersonalization.com/forum/research/complete-list-of-brain-regions-of-interest-in-dp/


The Dissociative Subtype of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: Unique Resting-State Functional Connectivity of Basolateral and Centromedial Amygdala Complexes | Neuropsychopharmacology:

http://www.nature.com/articles/npp201579?foxtrotcallback=true

This might be of interest to someone, there's a suggestion of top down influence of the amygdala in patients with PTSD+DS. Other research suggests an inhibitory mechanism of the amygdala in PTSD+DS. The role of the amygdala is very briefly touch on as significant in DPD, in King Elliott's post on the repersonalization website that you provided the link to.

Anyway it's good to see that King Elliott is continuing with his work, just a shame some of his helpful posts have been removed from this website.


----------



## Phantasm

Posts are getting quite prickly here and I feel I should say at this point that a lot of people are clearly interested in this subject so lets try to think of all users and keep this thread on the rails for everyone's sake. I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, but let's calm it down a bit, thanks.


----------



## nf12345

Valley girl has a point on the right sided part of the brain! Just had consultation with lead psychologist at smart tms London who said they had a guy with CDS score above 200. After 40 sessions it did nothing for him so were going to discharge him. He insisted on targeting an area in the right side of the brain and ffs I cant remember the name but his scores came down 60%. He didn't suffer ptsd either. I'm trying it out on Tuesday to begin with so will update when I can. So many parts of the brain though effected it's like wtf.


----------



## nf12345

Btw random question for people here. My eyesight is terrible. I.e. 2d vision people robots bla ball. If I loft my eyelid it looks as if my eye is literally jelly. As if "I" am literally "stuck" in my eye does anyone else have this? I've heard of snow vision and floaters but don't know what the fuck they are?!? Can anyone relate?


----------



## Surfingisfun001

I've reread this entire thread and thought I'd make a small thread update:

So far seven people from this thread have had the Stellate Ganglion Block done. Some have only had one injection at C6, while others have had C6 + C3 which seems to be the favored route.

Two people have reported significant improvement, notable both of those members have said they are also diagnosed with PTSD or C-PTSD.

One member reported some initial improvement, but said it wasn't the miracle cure they were hoping for.

One member reported no initial improvement but as time went on reported some improvement.

Three members have reported minimal to no improvement.

This isn't conclusive however as not all members have been back to update their progress with time.


----------



## ValleyGirl

CK1 said:


> davinizi
> 
> I know we all want to work this out, but seriously, the hard work on this has been done by experts such as Dr Lipov, who i am sure have tried every which way and he knows the science. C6 and C3 are both needed, it's that simple if you want to maximise your chances, from everything i've read, if anyone including you is doing this, don't cheap out and get just C6... what's the point, as we say in Ireland 'half a loaf and no bread'.
> 
> ValleyGirl2.0: My thoughts are very much aligned with you on this. This has worked for many PTSD and already people here with DP, with time it might even prove to be the most effective thing we have seen, I certainly haven't seen something with people like Dr Lipov quoting 50% overnight, so I don't get why people who haven't tried it have so much to say...
> 
> March is when I aim for, even if it just clears some anxiety and depression 50%, worth it to me


Thank you.


----------



## ValleyGirl

Wanted to give another progress update. I am now 2 weeks post SGB and in the past few days I have noticed that I am starting to have control over bringing myself more into reality. If I meditate on the things around me being real, they become more real looking and the veil of dp starts to lift. My vision is trying to go back to 3d and last night I came almost fully into reality. The longer the treatment has to work, the better the results are getting.


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl said:


> Wanted to give another progress update. I am now 2 weeks post SGB and in the past few days I have noticed that I am starting to have control over bringing myself more into reality. If I meditate on the things around me being real, they become more real looking and the veil of dp starts to lift. My vision is trying to go back to 3d and last night I came almost fully into reality. The longer the treatment has to work, the better the results are getting.


Thank you very much Valleygirl.
I can't wait to get the shots


----------



## Mayday

delusionaloptimist said:


> I just emailed the clinic in Bristol and apparently they will do C6, C7 and C3 all on the same day if needed/wanted. C6 is by far the most expensive option while C7 and C3 are comparatively cheaper.


Good. I can't die without trying everything what is possible to get rid of dp.
I go on trying until I die.
My wife and children deserve that.
Dp/Dr is no life.
When can you go to Bristol?


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl said:


> The longer the treatment has to work, the better the results are getting.


Do you have to come back to Dr Lipov for more consults?


----------



## James2368

Interesting post about a recovery Story with SGB

http://www.kenscholes.com/ptsd/one-year-update-on-my-most-recent-ptsd-stellate-ganglion-block-from-dr-lipov/


----------



## davinizi

who is planning to fake a chronic pain issue to get an SGB from an anaesthesiologist?


----------



## Surfingisfun001

davinizi said:


> who is planning to fake a chronic pain issue to get an SGB from an anaesthesiologist?


I thought about doing that but someone in this thread mentioned that they typically inject less fluid for pain than what Dr. Lipov does in Chicago. That could be a factor to consider.


----------



## ValleyGirl

Mayday said:


> Do you have to come back to Dr Lipov for more consults?


No. You don't ever actually have a consult with Dr.Lipov. If you are interested in treatment you email them and they send you paperwork to fill out to determine if you qualify for the procedure. (You can download it here http://globalptsifoundation.org/online-forms ) If you do, they call you within 3 weeks to set up your appointment for the injection. I just got a follow up call from his office today post procedure. You see Dr. Lipov for the injection and that is it. You don't have any other consultation appointments with him.


----------



## ValleyGirl

I thought you guys might be interested to see what your neck looks like post injection. I think this was 2 or 3 days post injection. I've labeled it so you can see where the ganglia are that they inject.


----------



## Eagles2526

Any word on the results? Even if a limited amount of people respond to it I am more than willing to fork out the money and give it a shot. Then I will at least know I have done everything in my power other than to keep pushing on to rid this.


----------



## davinizi

surfingisfun001 said:


> I thought about doing that but someone in this thread mentioned that they typically inject less fluid for pain than what Dr. Lipov does in Chicago. That could be a factor to consider.


Ok I didn't know that. How much does Lipov use? I read somewhere for the regular SGB they use 0,7 ml lidocaïne 1%.


----------



## davinizi

delusionaloptimist said:


> Dont they also do a stellate ganglion blockade in neural therapy?
> 
> Whats the difference between this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_therapy and what for example Dr Lipov does?


I actually received a shot like that and although one of these therapists told me it has the same effects as an SGB, I don't believe that because it works differently. I think this works more on an energetic level and doesnt really cause a blockage. They use a certain type of aneasthetic that you feel nothing from, it is immediately split off into 2 different substances once it's in your body, so the med industry cant do much with it. This therapist told me I wouldnt feel much from 1 injection and indeed I didn't, but would need multiple injections on different locations to potentially feel a difference, but I think this works a bit like homeopathy or acupuncture on a more energetic level. Yet since Dr Lipov's theory makes so much sense to me, I believe it will be more effective to go for an SGB, because there is a physiological problem. Not to say that neural therapy couldn't work for some people, I'd just assume the chances are lower.


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl said:


> I thought you guys might be interested to see what your neck looks like post injection. I think this was 2 or 3 days post injection. I've labeled it so you can see where the ganglia are that they inject.


Thx for sharing.
Are you already out of depersonalization?
Or do you feel you have a long time to go?


----------



## Surfingisfun001

davinizi said:


> Ok I didn't know that. How much does Lipov use? I read somewhere for the regular SGB they use 0,7 ml lidocaïne 1%.


Quotes from page 20 of this thread:



Mayer-Gross said:


> He injects 7.cl into C6 as Lipov does. C6 is close to C7 and as others have written there isn´t room for an injection into C7 after that. Lipov have said that they don´t do that for that reason to a patient in this tread. All trails with SGB for PTSD is C6 only. Lipov do give an injection if people don´t respond to C6 after 30-45.min into C3. C3 is higher up and there is room for a blocked there. The combination of C6 and C3 is called "The Chicago Bloc" by some.





Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I wonder how many .cl Dr Lipov injects into C3?





Mayer-Gross said:


> He properly gives the amount that there is room for. C6 is the largest of the ganglia and C3 is half that size. 2-3.cl ?


Is lidocaine what is in the actual injection?


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## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Yes, it should. But he doesn't follow Liopov's methods exactly. For instance; I couldn't get the nurse to confirm whether he will do C3 on the same day following a C6. I couldn't get a price for both injections for the same day either. In the end I gave up talking to her as she couldn't give me a straight answer except 'wait till you see the Dr & ask him', which wasn't good enough for me.


Not what they mailed to me.
I was getting C3 and C6 same day for £1270
Mail them. I'm sure you get the same mail as I did from Bristol.


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## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Well that is what they mailed me when I asked them a few months ago. Maybe after getting asked lots of hard questions they are adjusting their answers. Maybe I will try them again sometime. Let me know if you actually end up getting them both for that price.


Here my answers;

Many thanks for your email. Dr. Krishna does offer C3 and C6 block for management of PTSD symptoms and depersonalisation.

For this treatment the total cost will be £1270.00 (all inclusive): this includes the cost for initial consultation and injection at the 2 levels.

The treatment will all be done in one setting: consultation, followed by injection at the 2 levels. We follow the same protocol as described by Dr. Lipov in his publications. The only difference is that Dr. Krishna performs the injection under real-time ultrasound guidance, rather than x-ray guidance used by Dr. Lipov. Ultrasound makes the injection much more accurate as you can see the stellate ganglion as well as all the surrounding tissues, which are not visible under Xray.

If Dr. Lipov has provided you his protocol in detail please forward it to us and we can check this out with Dr, Krishna. For your reassurance Dr. Krishna sees patients from all over the Uk and abroad


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## ValleyGirl

Mayday said:


> Thx for sharing.
> Are you already out of depersonalization?
> Or do you feel you have a long time to go?


No I'm not and I think that this is where people with dp make a huge mistake, expecting instant recovery with no effort of their part. If your dp was caused by something minor, sure that could be possible (and yes I knknow the op instantly recovered after 1 shot but so far he is the only person to have done that so he should be considered the exception, not the rule). But if your dp was caused by trauma or abuse, you are still going to have deeply psychological wounds that need to be addressed and healed in order for you to fully recover. The SGB helps put you into a state chemically where it makes it possible to recover because in trauma, we grow those extra sympathetic nerve endings and our cellular activity changes so that the cells are stuck activated, constantly sending out stress hormones and keepimg the fight or flight responce activated all of the time. The SGB changes all of that back to the pretrauma state chemically but it doesn't magically erase your subconscious memories of the trauma or the psychological wounds left behind. You still have to get therapy and work through whatever you went through in life in order to full heal. Does that make sense?
I got dp from 10 years of abuse. But I also actually started having Dr episodes as young as age 8. I know that I had am ulcer from worrying by the time I was 7 amd started having panic attacks at age 9. I had a bipolar dad who was not medicated and would rapidly shift between extremely happy and rage. He was so unstable that it felt like we constantly had to walk on eggshells to avoid setting him off. You never quite knew where he was going to be. And then both of my parents were physically abusive to an extent. I had bad relationships as a teen, was bullied in school, ended up pregnant at 16 which was extremely traumatic for me, got married to someone I only knew 3 months and ended up in an abusive marriage for 10 years. Right before I got dp I lost my Grandma who was the only safe adult in my life and then my parents split up and my dad went nuts, my mom abandoned me and I had no contact with my family for 5 years. So as you can see, I've had a lifetime of really shitty things and mental illness and have a lot to work through in order to heal fully. I didn't expect instant recovery from the SGB, I expected it to be an aide in helping me recover. It is already doing more to help me recover than I ever expected but I don't realistically expect to fully recover until I've been able to process my traumas. That's actually a big thing the SGB is helping with. I was completely numb and detached from my trauma before and couldn't remember much of it. Since the sgb more memories are coming back and I actually feel sadness and pain. It is so important to be able to feel that pain in order to process trauma and heal.

So yeah, I am better than I was but full recovery may take some time.


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## Mayday

ValleyGirl said:


> No I'm not and I think that this is where people with dp make a huge mistake, expecting instant recovery with no effort of their part. If your dp was caused by something minor, sure that could be possible (and yes I knknow the op instantly recovered after 1 shot but so far he is the only person to have done that so he should be considered the exception, not the rule). But if your dp was caused by trauma or abuse, you are still going to have deeply psychological wounds that need to be addressed and healed in order for you to fully recover. The SGB helps put you into a state chemically where it makes it possible to recover because in trauma, we grow those extra sympathetic nerve endings and our cellular activity changes so that the cells are stuck activated, constantly sending out stress hormones and keepimg the fight or flight responce activated all of the time. The SGB changes all of that back to the pretrauma state chemically but it doesn't magically erase your subconscious memories of the trauma or the psychological wounds left behind. You still have to get therapy and work through whatever you went through in life in order to full heal. Does that make sense?
> I got dp from 10 years of abuse. But I also actually started having Dr episodes as young as age 8. I know that I had am ulcer from worrying by the time I was 7 amd started having panic attacks at age 9. I had a bipolar dad who was not medicated and would rapidly shift between extremely happy and rage. He was so unstable that it felt like we constantly had to walk on eggshells to avoid setting him off. You never quite knew where he was going to be. And then both of my parents were physically abusive to an extent. I had bad relationships as a teen, was bullied in school, ended up pregnant at 16 which was extremely traumatic for me, got married to someone I only knew 3 months and ended up in an abusive marriage for 10 years. Right before I got dp I lost my Grandma who was the only safe adult in my life and then my parents split up and my dad went nuts, my mom abandoned me and I had no contact with my family for 5 years. So as you can see, I've had a lifetime of really shitty things and mental illness and have a lot to work through in order to heal fully. I didn't expect instant recovery from the SGB, I expected it to be an aide in helping me recover. It is already doing more to help me recover than I ever expected but I don't realistically expect to fully recover until I've been able to process my traumas. That's actually a big thing the SGB is helping with. I was completely numb and detached from my trauma before and couldn't remember much of it. Since the sgb more memories are coming back and I actually feel sadness and pain. It is so important to be able to feel that pain in order to process trauma and heal.
> 
> So yeah, I am better than I was but full recovery may take some time.


Phew what a story. You have some things to do. And their is pain. I'm sure you will get fine in time.

For me. Dp started 33 years ago. Why? Nobody knows. Not even me. If someone offer me 1 million dollars i still have no story to tell. 24/7 year in year out.

What can do the SGB shots you think then?


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## James2368

ValleyGirl said:


> No I'm not and I think that this is where people with dp make a huge mistake, expecting instant recovery with no effort of their part. If your dp was caused by something minor, sure that could be possible (and yes I knknow the op instantly recovered after 1 shot but so far he is the only person to have done that so he should be considered the exception, not the rule). But if your dp was caused by trauma or abuse, you are still going to have deeply psychological wounds that need to be addressed and healed in order for you to fully recover. The SGB helps put you into a state chemically where it makes it possible to recover because in trauma, we grow those extra sympathetic nerve endings and our cellular activity changes so that the cells are stuck activated, constantly sending out stress hormones and keepimg the fight or flight responce activated all of the time. The SGB changes all of that back to the pretrauma state chemically but it doesn't magically erase your subconscious memories of the trauma or the psychological wounds left behind. You still have to get therapy and work through whatever you went through in life in order to full heal. Does that make sense?
> I got dp from 10 years of abuse. But I also actually started having Dr episodes as young as age 8. I know that I had am ulcer from worrying by the time I was 7 amd started having panic attacks at age 9. I had a bipolar dad who was not medicated and would rapidly shift between extremely happy and rage. He was so unstable that it felt like we constantly had to walk on eggshells to avoid setting him off. You never quite knew where he was going to be. And then both of my parents were physically abusive to an extent. I had bad relationships as a teen, was bullied in school, ended up pregnant at 16 which was extremely traumatic for me, got married to someone I only knew 3 months and ended up in an abusive marriage for 10 years. Right before I got dp I lost my Grandma who was the only safe adult in my life and then my parents split up and my dad went nuts, my mom abandoned me and I had no contact with my family for 5 years. So as you can see, I've had a lifetime of really shitty things and mental illness and have a lot to work through in order to heal fully. I didn't expect instant recovery from the SGB, I expected it to be an aide in helping me recover. It is already doing more to help me recover than I ever expected but I don't realistically expect to fully recover until I've been able to process my traumas. That's actually a big thing the SGB is helping with. I was completely numb and detached from my trauma before and couldn't remember much of it. Since the sgb more memories are coming back and I actually feel sadness and pain. It is so important to be able to feel that pain in order to process trauma and heal.
> So yeah, I am better than I was but full recovery may take some time.


Very sorry to hear about your story. I think it is unrealistic to recover one shot. As the guy pointed out in the video, he needed a couple of SGB over a longer period of time to get better.
Would it be possible to give an example of a symptom which has decreased through the injection?


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## ValleyGirl

James2368 said:


> Very sorry to hear about your story. I think it is unrealistic to recover one shot. As the guy pointed out in the video, he needed a couple of SGB over a longer period of time to get better.
> Would it be possible to give an example of a symptom which has decreased through the injection?


The symptom that has decreased the most for me is the 2-d flat vision that causes everything to look fake. Within 10 minutes of the 2nd injection everything started looking sharper and more real. My vision now switches from flat to everything looking real and I experience everything almost feeling real. I haven't been able to fully reconnect yet though.


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## James2368

ValleyGirl said:


> The symptom that has decreased the most for me is the 2-d flat vision that causes everything to look fake. Within 10 minutes of the 2nd injection everything started looking sharper and more real. My vision now switches from flat to everything looking real and I experience everything almost feeling real. I haven't been able to fully reconnect yet though.


Thanks for your Feedback and all the best for your recovery process. For me it makes perfectly sense to resolve the childhood trauma to cure DP. It is hard to face the fact that no immediate cure is possible to get a relieve from the symptoms but DP has a cause. With me it is very similar to your story....


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## Broken

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The sheer amount of mindless assumption & misinformation in this thread recently is pissing me off beyond belief!
> 
> Yes, for some people with PTSD it is a PHYSICAL trauma, & yes an SGB shot does fix them. For some people it's a PSYCHOLOGICAL trauma, & they will need counselling. For others it's both PHYSICAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL so they will need an SGB & couselling.Trauma can affect people only physically, only psychologically or both. Ones own personal experience is not universally applicable to everyone else! Think about it, for goodness sake.
> 
> The one-size-fits-all brigade who automatically assume that everyone else needs the exact same treatment as them are driving me to despair. I'm seriously losing my faith in humanity.


You have FAITH in HUMANITY???


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## davinizi

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The sheer amount of mindless assumption & misinformation in this thread recently is pissing me off beyond belief!
> 
> Yes, for some people with PTSD it is a PHYSICAL trauma, & yes an SGB shot does fix them. For some people it's a PSYCHOLOGICAL trauma, & they will need counselling. For others it's both PHYSICAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL so they will need an SGB & couselling.Trauma can affect people only physically, only psychologically or both. Ones own personal experience is not universally applicable to everyone else! Think about it, for goodness sake.
> 
> The one-size-fits-all brigade who automatically assume that everyone else needs the exact same treatment as them are driving me to despair. I'm seriously losing my faith in humanity.


Isn't it an assumption as well that psychological trauma's can be purely psychological? That's at least not what Lipov is assuming and I don't even know whether what he says is just his theory or already proven : when someone experiences psychological trauma, their brain produces a substance called NGF which in return makes the ganglion grow more nerve fibres and this in return produces more norepinephrine which gives off these constant PTSD symptoms (in the case of PTSD) which sounds very plausible to me.


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## davinizi

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> If someone recovered via counselling alone, which is not unheard of, then I guess it wouldn't be an assumption.The assumption would be that *ALL* psychological traumas are purely psychological. It's possible that some are, & some aren't. I'm open to all possibilities because I'm humble enough to admit that we actually know next to nothing about DP.


That's possible yes but it's just as well possible that all psychological trauma's affect the physique (I would assume it does) , even if people get cured with counseling alone. Who knows, they may had extra nerve fibres in their ganglions as well, but maybe the mental and emotional healing of the trauma(s) caused these nerve fibres to shrink or stopped giving off the extra adrenaline. It's just another possibility/ assumption. The same problem can be cured via different methods, be it via an energetic, emotional/psychological or physical route. I think it's safe to assume that the mind and body affect one another, hence people can find healing by either changing the emotional or physical body which then seeps through to the mind or body.


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## mstan

Has anyone else tried this yet?


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## ValleyGirl

James2368 said:


> Thanks for your Feedback and all the best for your recovery process. For me it makes perfectly sense to resolve the childhood trauma to cure DP. It is hard to face the fact that no immediate cure is possible to get a relieve from the symptoms but DP has a cause. With me it is very similar to your story....


Thank you James ❤. You are right, DP does have a cause and if we are able to figure it out (some people aren't able to), it's a gift that we have the opportunity to be able to get therapy and sort it out because in the end it makes us healthier people. I have learned so much about self care and healthy relationships through my journey of having dp and going through various types of therapy. It's made me a stronger and more emotionally healthy person. I hope that you are able to find healing and full recovery as well.


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## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Has anyone else been to the Pain Spa in Bristol yet? I'm waiting for stories from people who got C6 & C3 done on the same day for a set price.


I cancelled my appointment there.
A local clinic is willing to help me.

But why don't you just go?
I surely did if my local clinic didn't do it.


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## Ray46

I've found a story of a guy who experienced dissociation. The blocks really helped him.

Source: facebook page: stellate ganglion block for the treatment of post traumatic stress injury.

Hi, my name is Ben. I'm one of the admins of this page and have never posted, but I want to share my story and feel compelled to do so after my last treatment with Dr. Lipov. I've suffered from severe Complex PTSI, OCD, dissociation, MDD, GAD, and ADHD my whole life, I'm 36 years old. In this correspondence you will hear me refer to PTSD as PTSI because I truly believe that it is an injury to the body rather than a disorder. Its what our brain is supposed to do when it experiences trauma.

At age 3 1/2 I was physically and sexually abused in my first home. I won't go into details because I don't want to trigger anyone. In my second home I was also physically abused. Throughout school I was ridiculed(bullied) for motor tics that happened as a result of the trauma. I would rip the hair out on both sides of my head and chew holes through my tounge. I would do various other self harm behaviors as well. There was no escape.

I was also a first responder. During that time I witnessed numerous suicides and fatalities. I almost lost my life in a high speed car crash at age 17 as well.

At age 18 I left my home and joined the military. I was a Gunnersmate 2nd Class. I served in Operation Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom. Throughout my 4 years of service I experienced numerous traumas. Myself and my shipmates almost lost our lives twice on the weapon system I worked on trying to clear a misfire and also had an HE-PD round fall out of a feeding assembly 15 feet to the deck, I was shocked by high voltage, I had a round from a 9mm pass very close by the back of my head due to a negligent discharge, my bunk-mate committed suicide, we escorted a Marine convoy through the Straits of Gibraltar while a terrorist cell was threatening to blow them up, we deployed after the twin towers got hit on 9/11, and I also served on an anti-piracy boarding team. I suffered a TBI from the Naval Gunnery I was exposed to.

When I left the military I fell into a heavy drug addiction. I am blessed to have almost 10 years sober today and be free from that. After the military I experienced a situation where I was robbed at gunpoint one night and pistol whipped with a .380.

In 2010, I experienced a near drowning in cold water, I almost died and had to be rescued. A couple years later 2 of my friends were chopped up with an axe in there home by a family member in a brutal double homicide and most recently I experienced a home invasion.

I stuffed everything for years until I couldn't anymore and it came out in the form of severe PTSI. I got sober and had literally a set of clothes on my back, and was couch surfing. I worked my way out of the hell that my addiction had left me in. I got a decent job, my own place, a car, I was in shape physically and mentally. I began attending school full-time. I graduated high honors with a 2 year degree in Accounting and started my Bachelors in Business Administration. When I was six years sober, the PTSI hit me full force in the form of incapacitating panic attacks. I could no longer work, I ended up hospitalized 3 times and eventually in a homeless shelter. I finished my Bachelors degree in a homeless shelter online and could not attended my graduation due to severe PTSI.

I endured many physical complications from PTSI including severe gastrointestinal issues which I had chest surgery for, motility/swallowing issues, and severe sleep apnea. A living hell. I moved to Alaska in 2015 and somehow fell into painting and opened up a business which I was successful at. In the winter of 2016 I began treatment for sleep apnea which completely messed me up. I had not dreamed in years and finally all the nightmares hit at once because I was finally getting REM sleep. It was horrible. I could only get an hour and a half of sleep a night, I would wake up and vomit, I couldn't go to the post office to check my mail and relied on drive-throughs for food. I went to 2 treatment centers, 4 therapists, and numerous meds. Nothing worked. I was hyper sleeping all day and had severe exhaustion. My sensory systems were in overload. I was trapped and could barely leave my home.

It was at this point that I began to seek help outside the VA and met Dr. Lipov through a friend who got an injection. My therapy was as follows.... I received the first injection and didn't feel too much different. Then I received a sequential block at the C5 and C6 which I immediately noticed as well as pulsed radiofrequency twice. With every injection I have gotten better and better and from what I understand, everyone is different and responds in there own way. I received my last sympathetic blockade on the 19th and feel like a new person. I am off of harmful drugs such as benzodiapazines and have needed less pharmaceuticals from the VA. My sleep is amazing, and I feel like I have my life back. I love to hunt and fish up here in Alaska and was able to go to a remote area of Alaska in September (500 miles from the nearest hospital or facilities and harvest a caribou as well as hunt grizzly....by myself.) I am able to be in a crowded AA meeting and share without dissociating. My hypervigilance and startled response is gone, and my head is clear. I have no intrusive thoughts or unwanted thoughts. I feel like a weight has been lifted. I really don't know what else to say and can't believe I'm writing this. I will keep you all posted in my recovery and encourage others to post their experience to spread a message of hope to others as well. Please donate at healinghero.org, Dr. Lipov's non-profit to change someones life.


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## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Lipov does C5; surely that's a type-o? He does pulsed radio frequency too?
> 
> ???


You can ask him personally on his facebook page: stellate ganglion block for the treatment of post traumatic stress injury

"I received the first injection and didn't feel too much different. Then I received a sequential block at the C5 and C6 which I immediately noticed as well as pulsed radiofrequency twice."

Does that mean he got the first injection at C3 and than a at C5 and C6?


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## Mayday

Ray46 said:


> You can ask him personally on his facebook page: stellate ganglion block for the treatment of post traumatic stress injury
> 
> "I received the first injection and didn't feel too much different. Then I received a sequential block at the C5 and C6 which I immediately noticed as well as pulsed radiofrequency twice."
> 
> Does that mean he got the first injection at C3 and than a at C5 and C6?


Why the C3 if there are no responders?


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## lilnewk

Would someone in my area do this for this reason or would I have to go to that one doctor ?


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## whatsgoingonwithmybrain

Anyone in Australia found a good source that will do this properly???


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## ValleyGirl

I wanted to come back and give an update again. I had the SGB about a month and a half ago and over the past few weeks, the positive effects have slowly started to go away. My vision still continues to switch to things looking more real but it is much less frequent now. I have noticed that my sense of self has really been reintegrating with who I "used to be" before dp, so that has been good. But my overall mental health has been steadily declining. Before the SGB I was having a lot of anxiety attacks and feeling like I am dying all of the time. My mind felt like thus dark difficult place to exist in and like it just wasn't sustainable to continue to live in that head space long term. After the SGB I was transported into a different mindset that was calm and higher functioning. That has slowly declined until I am almost completely back to what I was before. 
This really disappoints and saddens me because the SGB is the only thing that has ever worked to make me feel better and bring me closer to reality in the 8 years I've had dp. I've tried every medicationa and therapy you can think of and nothing helped the way this did. That being said, I have read that people with ptsd, which I do have, sometimes need multiple sets of injections to see lasting results. If I had the money I absolutely would have already gone back to get more done. I may just be one of those people who need it done a few times. 
I wanted to be honest about my progress because this hasn't been studied in dp so you guys need to know the good and the bad. Is it worth getting it done? Absolutely, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. But has it cured my dp? No, it hasn't. For me, I think its going to take lots of therapy to resolve my trauma and multiple sgb's to help me along the way.


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## Broken

Sorry to hear it wasnt permanent. Good news that you found relief though? There is hope!

You are right I feel. Sadly this illness is so complicated that it probably will take a mixture of something physical like this or medication alongside decent therapy.. I am making progress in therapy recently and it does help the DP and mood it seems. Also listening to your intuition more rather than following thoughts/beliefs about what you should be or what should be happening. Recovery isn't always a linear path.. have faith things will improve once again


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## Mayday

ValleyGirl said:


> I wanted to come back and give an update again. I had the SGB about a month and a half ago and over the past few weeks, the positive effects have slowly started to go away. My vision still continues to switch to things looking more real but it is much less frequent now. I have noticed that my sense of self has really been reintegrating with who I "used to be" before dp, so that has been good. But my overall mental health has been steadily declining. Before the SGB I was having a lot of anxiety attacks and feeling like I am dying all of the time. My mind felt like thus dark difficult place to exist in and like it just wasn't sustainable to continue to live in that head space long term. After the SGB I was transported into a different mindset that was calm and higher functioning. That has slowly declined until I am almost completely back to what I was before.
> This really disappoints and saddens me because the SGB is the only thing that has ever worked to make me feel better and bring me closer to reality in the 8 years I've had dp. I've tried every medicationa and therapy you can think of and nothing helped the way this did. That being said, I have read that people with ptsd, which I do have, sometimes need multiple sets of injections to see lasting results. If I had the money I absolutely would have already gone back to get more done. I may just be one of those people who need it done a few times.
> I wanted to be honest about my progress because this hasn't been studied in dp so you guys need to know the good and the bad. Is it worth getting it done? Absolutely, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. But has it cured my dp? No, it hasn't. For me, I think its going to take lots of therapy to resolve my trauma and multiple sgb's to help me along the way.


Thx for telling.
Did you tell your story to Lipov?
What does he suggest?
I'm sure he knows what to do now.


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## eddy1886

ValleyGirl said:


> I wanted to come back and give an update again. I had the SGB about a month and a half ago and over the past few weeks, the positive effects have slowly started to go away. My vision still continues to switch to things looking more real but it is much less frequent now. I have noticed that my sense of self has really been reintegrating with who I "used to be" before dp, so that has been good. But my overall mental health has been steadily declining. Before the SGB I was having a lot of anxiety attacks and feeling like I am dying all of the time. My mind felt like thus dark difficult place to exist in and like it just wasn't sustainable to continue to live in that head space long term. After the SGB I was transported into a different mindset that was calm and higher functioning. That has slowly declined until I am almost completely back to what I was before.
> This really disappoints and saddens me because the SGB is the only thing that has ever worked to make me feel better and bring me closer to reality in the 8 years I've had dp. I've tried every medicationa and therapy you can think of and nothing helped the way this did. That being said, I have read that people with ptsd, which I do have, sometimes need multiple sets of injections to see lasting results. If I had the money I absolutely would have already gone back to get more done. I may just be one of those people who need it done a few times.
> I wanted to be honest about my progress because this hasn't been studied in dp so you guys need to know the good and the bad. Is it worth getting it done? Absolutely, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. But has it cured my dp? No, it hasn't. For me, I think its going to take lots of therapy to resolve my trauma and multiple sgb's to help me along the way.


I admire your honesty....Alot of people would have sugar coated something like this to avoid upsetting others or because of imbarrassment...Whats needed on a forum like this are honest down to earth personal experiences with honest down to earth assessments of treatments and meds etc....Not the usual scare mongering bullshit that the internet provides...

Thanks miss!


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## ditzo

I just found out that Dr Krishna at the Bristol Pain Clinic offers pulsed-radio-frequency SGB injections to people who get positive but not long-lasting effects from their first block.

Ken Scholes wrote in his blog post about how a pulse-radio frequency block has kept him symptom free for 2.5 years. 
http://www.kenscholes.com/ptsd/reflections-on-two-years-out-from-my-last-chicago-block-for-ptsd/

Sounds promising!


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## Mannyj715

How would I go about getting this done in the States? Does anyone know of a clinic that would do this for us with DP/DR


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## ditzo

Ray46 said:


> Hi guys, here's my story!
> 
> Sorry for my English I'm from Switzerland
> 
> I got depersonalization disorder when I was around 20 I'm 21 now. It was brought on by an anxiety attack after I smoked weed.
> I have spent 8 month living with it. It was the most awful terrifying experience I have ever encounted. I was convinced I was losing my mind, slipping away into an irreversible insanity. I had forgetfulness, memory problems, poor concentration, permanent brain fog and emotional numbness. The only feeling I had was anxiety...


Would you describe your numbness as physical numbness? Do you feel like it could have been a result of the freeze response to stress?

I'm pondering over if the SBG can knock out the freeze response by killing the underlying fight-flight activity that triggered the freeze response to activate in the first place


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## ValleyGirl

Broken said:


> Sorry to hear it wasnt permanent. Good news that you found relief though? There is hope!
> 
> You are right I feel. Sadly this illness is so complicated that it probably will take a mixture of something physical like this or medication alongside decent therapy.. I am making progress in therapy recently and it does help the DP and mood it seems. Also listening to your intuition more rather than following thoughts/beliefs about what you should be or what should be happening. Recovery isn't always a linear path.. have faith things will improve once again


I completely agree with you and that's what I tried to caution people about earlier on this thread, not to expect this injection to be an instant miracle cure. The OP is literally the only person with dp That I have ever seen recover instantly. Everyone else seems to need multiple injections and/or therapy because a lot of us have dp from long term mental health issues or trauma.
But yeah, I do agree that atleast I know this is something that can help me feel better. It just wish it wasn't so expensive. $2000 every other month is an expensive little feel good habit.


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## ValleyGirl

Mayday said:


> Thx for telling.
> Did you tell your story to Lipov?
> What does he suggest?
> I'm sure he knows what to do now.


I emailed his office 3 days ago and haven't heard back. I will let you guys know what they say.


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## ValleyGirl

eddy1886 said:


> I admire your honesty....Alot of people would have sugar coated something like this to avoid upsetting others or because of imbarrassment...Whats needed on a forum like this are honest down to earth personal experiences with honest down to earth assessments of treatments and meds etc....Not the usual scare mongering bullshit that the internet provides...
> 
> Thanks miss!


No problem. I really want to be able to find something that really helps people. Dp proves to continue to be a very stubborn condition to treat.


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## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> No I can't, I deleted my FB a few months ago. Would someone else please do it?
> 
> I'm 99% sure it's a type-o, there's no reason to inject C5 I presume.


You were right. He said that dr. Lipov gave him the blocks at C6 and C3. It was a type-o.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Ray46 are you still recovered?


----------



## Ray46

surfingisfun001 said:


> Ray46 are you still recovered?


I have my ups and downs i think i need new shots.


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Hi Ray, if yours was drug induced, you do not need anything to do, it will go away on its own, of course if you did not have previous problems.


----------



## Ray46

I hope the stellate ganglion block for ptsd is soon available here in Switzerland, cause here the Health insurance would pay it for you.


----------



## lilnewk

I’m still trying to figure out if they do it in New York where I live ( I know they do it for pain but if they have all the kinds of shots Incase one doesn’t work and if they do it for ptsd ) I don’t want to have to fly to Chicago for something that might not work ( I hate flying )


----------



## Mayday

delusionaloptimist said:


> Im going for it tomorrow


Please keep us up to date.
I'm going on 30 January.
I wish you luck. And hope you get out of it.


----------



## ValleyGirl

I got a response from Dr. Lipov's office and they are saying that for PTSD, the average time people see benefit from the SGB is 3 to 6 months, however they have one client who had it done 3 years ago and has not needed to come back. Other people fall in line between the 6 months to 3 year time frame as well.

So that's the first I've heard from that camp on it being a short term solution. The way it is portrayed by Dr. Lipov is that one set of injections is all that's needed. So that's pretty frustrating.

They also said that it would cost the full $2000 each time you needed to come back.

Pretty frustrating information all around.


----------



## Ray46

delusionaloptimist said:


> yeah hope it works out.. wouldve wished I didnt have to resort to something like this but the last med ive been on caused so many issues that I cant bear with the DP anymore. I had a CDS score hovering around 300 to begin with and my overall well-being worsened by 10 times so im pretty much done with being optimistic
> 
> if this doesnt work I quit


So how was it? I hope not bad.


----------



## eddy1886

Hate to say it but this looks like another dead rubber....Seems like a very expensive short term fix for what is an extremely long term problem...

Another bunch of doctors who just wants to line their pockets with cold hard cash...

Im sick of all these money hungry f***s...Between, shrinks, therapists, doctors, neurologists etc etc etc....They are all the f****n same....

Profit before people is the norm nowadays....Sad but true!!!

Rant over!!!


----------



## eddy1886

I actually believe that these "Doctors" should give you your money back if it doesnt work....But that would be the honest decent thing to do wouldnt it....

Theres no difference between Lawyers and Doctors nowadays....They are all ambulance chasers...Just in a different form...

Sickens me to my stomach!!!

I better be quiet now before I upset everybody....


----------



## lilnewk

If it was a 100 percent guarantee I would pay 2 grand every 3 months if I had to. Unfortunately it’s not a guarantee but if I see people having good results I might try if I don’t start getting better


----------



## lilnewk

Ps I hate doctors


----------



## Mayday

ValleyGirl said:


> I got a response from Dr. Lipov's office and they are saying that for PTSD, the average time people see benefit from the SGB is 3 to 6 months, however they have one client who had it done 3 years ago and has not needed to come back. Other people fall in line between the 6 months to 3 year time frame as well.
> 
> So that's the first I've heard from that camp on it being a short term solution. The way it is portrayed by Dr. Lipov is that one set of injections is all that's needed. So that's pretty frustrating.
> 
> They also said that it would cost the full $2000 each time you needed to come back.
> 
> Pretty frustrating information all around.


Hi ValleyGirl,

I understand your frustration.
And you are absolutely right.

The positive thing is that it helped you
If it helps me I pay for it.
I know it if I try it.
The world is all about the money.


----------



## Haley22

It kind of helps to know that if nothing else worse, this is always an option.


----------



## CUPCAKES23

I have had DP for two months now after stopping nurotin for nerve pain and a natural anti depressent, this is hell I'm having intrusive thoughts and emotional numbness it's very scary I am considering trying the stelliate ganglion block I hope it works


----------



## Broken

CUPCAKES23 said:


> I have had DP for two months now after stopping nurotin for nerve pain and a natural anti depressent, this is hell I'm having intrusive thoughts and emotional numbness it's very scary I am considering trying the stelliate ganglion block I hope it works


In all honesty it is very early days for you and you have just come off a medication. Not to dismiss what you're going through as I know it sucks, but chances are this will most probably pass on it's own with a bit more time. Just take it as a stressed mind readjusting to life without meds


----------



## XXX

CUPCAKES23, you are having a Neurotine withdrawal experience. This medication acts similar to benzos on GABA A receptors.

Because you didnt tapper down you. It is the same thing as withdrawaling benzos cold turkey.

You will be sorted when your GABA A receptors recover so dont you worry.

Might take few months but you will definitely recover.


----------



## TheStarter

I feel unlucky enough to have gotten DP/DR, i bet if i take this injection it'll give me ...


----------



## Mayday

For those who got something with this, I received a mail for a trial SGB, here is the answer:

Sir,
Regarding the Stellate Ganglion Block (SGB) for PTSD study, if you are
interested in participating or would like more information, please contact
Cliff Morgan, LRMC research coordinator for the study, by phone at
01523-276-2184 or by e-mail at [email protected] or visit the RTI website at
https://sgbstudy.rti.org/
People are eligible for the study if they are on active duty military orders
and have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), or think
that they might have PTSD.
Thank you,
Stacy Sanning
Public Affairs Specialist
Landstuhl Regional Medical Center
DSN 314-590-4149
Commercial 06371-9464-4149
Mobile 0170-267-3366


----------



## Ray46

TheStarter said:


> I feel unlucky enough to have gotten DP/DR, i bet if i take this injection it'll give me ...


Don't worry, this is extremely rare. Its reported that only one patient had this and it went away after the block.


----------



## Ray46

I had a chat with a guy on facebook who had the stellate ganglion block for ptsd. He did it in Hawaii. He said that he had success after 4 injections in 4 meetings (1 n 1). This means that if the block doesn't work the first time it still can work at a later try.


----------



## Mayday

Ray46 said:


> I had a chat with a guy on facebook who had the stellate ganglion block for ptsd. He did it in Hawaii. He said that he had success after 4 injections in 4 meetings (1 n 1). This means that if the block doesn't work the first time it still can work at a later try.


Hi Ray,
What did the guy you chat with felt the first shot?
A little bit better or nothing?

PS. The trial I posted is maybe something for you. It's in Stuttgart Germany.


----------



## Ray46

Mayday said:


> Hi Ray,
> What did the guy you chat with felt the first shot?
> A little bit better or nothing?
> PS. The trial I posted is maybe something for you. It's in Stuttgart Germany.


I don't know, he only said that after the 4th injection he had success. Thanks for the trial.


----------



## TheStarter

Ray46 said:


> Don't worry, this is extremely rare. Its reported that only one patient had this and it went away after the block.


Where is your source on this?


----------



## Ray46

TheStarter said:


> Where is your source on this?


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2943702/


----------



## BetterHealth23

Hi all,

I have followed this forum on and off for several years, after experiencing a short but severe episode of dp/dr. I began having panic attacks and extreme 24/7 anxiety after a bad reaction to cannabis in 2012, which had no rational cause and was completely uncontrollable. After several months of debilitating anxiety which stopped me attending lectures or living any kind social life, I fell into a severe state of dp/dr. During this point i had no further panic attacks, but my symptoms were so severe in respect of cognitive abilities and quality of life, I became obsessed with finding a solution. I was extremely fortunate, that within a month of dp/dr onset, I achieved COMPLETE remission of both dp/dr and anxiety, with a supplement containing magnesium, zinc and vitamin b6.

However, despite completing eliminating my anxiety and dp/dr, I was left with (what I believe to be) a very imbalanced nervous system which is incredibly reactive to stress. Following the resolution of symptoms, I started going back to the gym to continue weight training (it was my only hobby and I had enjoyed training 4-5 times a week for several years prior), only to find that after several weeks of continuous training I would become increasingly anxious, moody and overstimulated, before eventually I would experience severe OCD, panic attacks and insomnia. Being so sleep deprived, I would stop my gym regimen, and within 2 weeks the anxiety and insomnia would completely resolve again. It took me nearly 2 years of going through this cycle of gym, anxiety, stop, resolve, repeat, before I finally realised that weight training was off the cards with my nervous system as it was. After a long period of stress relating to work and my personal life, the condition has become so severe, that going on a diet (calorie restriction) also causes these symptoms to surface, meaning my weight has increased dramatically in the last 2 years. This has left me with a very strong desire to understand my symptoms and ultimately make a full recovery.

I've become very interested in the Stellate Ganglion Block as a potential option. It seems it shows great efficacy where individuals show symptoms of 'sympathetic nervous system overdrive', and I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the treatment in Bristol, should I be accepted as a patient. I'm currently trying some other approaches first, which mainly revolve around various supplements (phosphatadylserine, adaptogens, lithium orotate), but if these options do not work or improve my situation, I will be looking to get a SGB in the very near future. I will be sure to keep people posted of my progress, including any conversations I have with the clinic in Bristol.


----------



## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> That would be very welcome & helpful indeed. All the best with your trouble shooting.
> 
> Did he have 4x C6 & C3? Or just 4x C6? Or just 4x C3? Or maybe some other combination over the four injection sessions?
> 
> Ray, you should tell your GP your shoulder has started playing up again & get another free shot!
> 
> It does seem that multiple injections will be required for many people. Sadly, this seems like it's only one for the well off, or those with health insurance.


4x C6


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Happy that depersonalization is curable even in decades cases, that proves that medicine can treat everything if you have enough money, so there is no illnesses that could not be treatable, hopefully everyone now will understand it.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Hi all,

Today I contacted the clinic in Bristol and booked a SGB for next Tuesday. As promised, I will outline the conversations I had throughout the course of the day. When I first called, a man answered the phone and after explaining I was interested in a SGB for PTSD, told me that he'd have a colleague call me back within the next couple of hours. I did receive a call a couple of hours later from a woman, she told me that I could have the consultation and injection(s) completed on the same day and told me that she'd get a colleague to send an email with more details before we booked anything because "it gets quite complicated, with different levels and I don't really understand it". An hour later, I received the email below:

"Thanks for your telephone call today regarding the stellate ganglion block for PTSD. Injections can be done on the same day as consultation.

Costs are as follows:

Consultation fee: £275

C6 block under ultrasound: £795

C3 block under ultrasound: additional £200

C7 block under ultrasound: additional £200"

I then called back and informed the clinic that I was interested in booking an appointment for the SGB. It was the same man who initially answered the phone, so he told me that again, a colleague would call me back. I was then called by the woman who had taken the second call. I told her I was keen to go ahead for the SGB, and she gave me appointment times. All booked for 6pm next Tuesday. Given it was a later appointment, I asked whether I'd be able to get a consultation and a potential 3 shots all in one session. She explained that 'The doctor will do whatever needs to be done, before you leave that appointment'. That was enough reassurance for me, so I've booked it all in and am just about to pay the £275 consultation fee in advance. A very good friend is driving me to Bristol and back, plus I'm booking a hotel for the night, given that I may not be out until 8-9pm (assuming they will do 3 injections).

Overall, it seems like the admin staff have little knowledge of the procedures, but I have faith that the Dr knows what needs to be done. I know that a lot of people are curious about the results of this procedure and how the Bristol clinic operates, so I will try and get as much footage on my GoPro as possible throughout the day itself. Let's hope it works!


----------



## ditzo

Best of luck BetterHealth23! I am booked in at Bristol the following Tuesday and I'm quite hopeful. They are following Lipov's protocol which is great, only difference is Dr Krishna doesn't us Clonidine which Lipov reports better results with, however many have had success with Bupivicaine alone, and with the C3 and C7 backup injection the odds are higher. Fingers crossed we can both find healing!


----------



## Ray46

Good luck BetterHealth23!


----------



## BetterHealth23

Thanks!

I think at this stage, it's best to have a good discussion with the Dr during the consultation, and understand exactly how the procedure is performed.

I believe that Lipov has done the C6, C3 & C7 combination in the past, so I'm not too skeptical about seeing all 3 injection prices listed out in the email. Although Lipov has probably done more of these injection for PTSD than any other practitioner in the world, I still think this is all experimental and I'm not going to be put off based on what's noted in the email.


----------



## Ray46

I believe that Lipov has done the C6, C3 & C7 combination in the past, so I'm not too skeptical about seeing all 3 injection prices listed out in the email.

Yess, in this video for example:


----------



## Eagles2526

Hello everyone. I will be getting this done if my condition does not improve by March. Hoping the people that are getting this done soon will come back and share their experiences. In my eyes we all do have a form of PTSD which must be why this has been affective in some cases. Good luck to everyone about to get this injection done.


----------



## Ray46

Ok so just get a C6 and C3.


----------



## Mayday

He don't feel his body anymore. That is no improvement. That is hell.
For me a reason not to do this. FOR NOW!!


----------



## Ray46

delusionaloptimist said:


> edited


It will get better! I feel very guilty that you're now feeling this way...????


----------



## ValleyGirl

delusionaloptimist said:


> I had an adverse reaction to this procedure..
> 
> just want you all to know that there is a very real risk and danger to this and besides the possiblity of it working and the huge costs there is also the chance of everything becoming way worse


I am curious, were you put to sleep for the procedure or were you awake? One important thing to acknowledge here is that what you are experiencing is more than likely your body reacting negatively to the medications used on you due to your own biological make up and that because we are each unique biologically, not everyone is going to have the same reaction to the same procedure or medication. People on this forum tend to catastrophize so saying the procedure is risky and dangerous, based on your own individual reaction, is kind of irresponsible. It has worked well for some and not well for others.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I think that Lipov used to inject C6 with a lesser amount (probably 3.cl as with a standard SGB for pain), then & only then would he inject C7. However, I believe he now finds that if he injects C6 with 7.cl, then there is no need to inject C7 at all. The fact that Dr Krishna at the Bristol Pain Spa is offering to give all three injections including a C7, even though he's reportedly injecting C6 with 7.cl, is the thing that's ringing alarm bells for me. If someone responds to C6, then they don't need C3, & if someone responds to C3 after a failed C6, then they don't need a C7. And, giving someone a C7 after injecting C6 with 7.cl is imho a potential disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> There was a bad review of Dr Krishna online where someone said he was trying to push injections that were not needed: https://www.google.c...z/data=!3m1!4b1
> 
> Hmmm...


True, I definitely see where you're coming from. However, that's not to say that the procedure will not work. During the initial consultation, I will be having a long conversation with the Dr and asking plenty of questions, including how much medication will be injected at C6 etc. If I don't feel the method is in line with expectation, I will happily walk out of the clinic without having an SGB.

You have to remember that this is private treatment. I'm sure the Dr is open to the patients desires, much more so than when you get treatment on the NHS and you 'get what you're given'.


----------



## BetterHealth23

delusionaloptimist said:


> I had an adverse reaction to this procedure..
> 
> just want you all to know that there is a very real risk and danger to this and besides the possiblity of it working and the huge costs there is also the chance of everything becoming way worse


I'm really sad to hear that not only has the procedure not worked, but has made you feel worse! Could you provide more detail on how it has made you feel worse? Somebody mentioned an inability to not feel your body. Is this in a physical sense or in a more mental sense? I only ask because given the nature of the medication involved, a numbing effect across the body could be a temporary (albeit undesirable) side effect.

It would be useful to understand the complications, so everyone can make a more educated decision about whether to get an SGB or not.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Hi all,

I just wanted to give a quick update.

I'm all booked in for a SGB at the Bristol clinic tomorrow (technically today) at 6pm. As promised, I will try to get as much footage on my GoPro as possible, before and treatment. At the very least, I will report back on my experience at the Bristol clinic, including the method used by the Dr, and also the positive/negative effects of the procedure.

I also just wanted to add my personal opinion, having read about the adverse reaction experienced by another user and the general attitude of some members on the forum:

If you truly want to recover from DP (or indeed achieve any goal), sometimes you'll need to expose yourself to risks. Even something as basic as trying a new supplement carries risks. That could range from diarrhoea, worsened DP, anxiety, to allergic reactions etc.

I know how terrifying it is to experience debilitating DP. I had it bad, like many people on this forum, and I only found my personal fix, by taking on some risks. I spent money on supplements, some of which were a complete waste of money. I tried medications, which were also a waste of money. I spent time at a private hospital getting treatment, again a complete waste of time (although admittedly not money as I was very fortunate to be covered by insurance from my Dad's employer). Bottom line is, doing the same thing doesn't tend to yield a different result. If you've had DP for a long time, I'm very doubtful that you will recover by taking the same courses of action, day in day out.

It's true, for every success story, you're going to hear a 'this ruined my life' story. Start with the lower risk and cheaper options, and work your way up, until you find something that helps you. Be positive, believe in recovery and believe in achieving what you desire. Start visualising yourself happy, free of DP, in a good place. If you're yet to try this, you might be surprised to find it's usually 50% of achieving your goals in life.

I know it's hard to be positive when you're going through an extremely taxing time (any chronic illness counts for this), but that's often the difference between recovering and not recovering. If this procedure doesn't work, I won't give up. I will keep working towards a solution for my problems, even if it kills me. I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.


----------



## Mayday

Why is the delusionaloptimist a deleted member?


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

maybe because this person recovered)


----------



## Mayday

thanksforbeingalive said:


> maybe because this person recovered)


Not funny.


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

i am not joking, SGB works after some period of time, maybe now this person fully recovered, who knows?


----------



## Mayday

I just had my SGB on C6 level.
I keep you up to date.


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I hope it works for you. Looking forward to hearing more.


15 February we do C3 SGB.
I let you know


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Mayday said:


> Why is the delusionaloptimist a deleted member?


delusionaloptimist requested to have their account deleted.


----------



## Dragonz

Mayday said:


> 15 February we do C3 SGB.
> I let you know


Fingers crossed for you


----------



## BetterHealth23

Hi all,

Unfortunately, myself and my friend were a little too busy today to capture any real footage. Nonetheless, I will detail today's experience while it is fresh in my head.

I got to the Bristol clinic at around 5.45pm ahead of my 6pm appointment. The surgery isn't solely a private clinic, there are lots of individuals there to see their regular GP. Dr Krishna's nurse came out to meet me at approximately 6.05pm and they asked me to come through for initial consultation in one of the GP style rooms.

In my honest opinion, Dr Krishna was great. I have absolutely zero affiliation with him, but I had a very positive experience. He asked me about my medical history and symptoms, before we discussed the SGB procedure in more detail. He made it very clear that he injects 7ml of anaesthetic into C6 using ultrasound guidance. He then recommended that I wait 30-60 minutes before deciding on whether I choose a C3 injection (and subsequently a C7 injection). He made it very clear that I should dictate the number of injections and he was happy to stay until all injections were completed. He made it very clear that it was always my decision as to whether I wanted another injection, and he recommended I stop after I experience some kind of symptom relief or feel better.

He noted that many patients come in absolutely adamant that they need 2-3 injections after reading online and that although he tries to deter them, ultimately he wants to go on the patients guidance. He noted that even though many patients have positive reactions to C6 (and C3), they will insist on more injections, hoping to gain a greater positive effect.

Both Dr Krishna and his nurse made me feel very comfortable before, during and after the procedure. I was made aware of all potential risks of the procedure and signed a consent form following this outline. I'll be totally honest, I found the procedure itself rather uncomfortable. Dr Krishna asked me to remove my top (I'm male), so long as I felt comfortable, so that he had perfect access to my neck. I then laid down flat, with a pillow underneath my back, to provide better access to the neck area. He then doused my entire neck with antiseptic, to reduce risks of infection. This was fairly cold, but not too uncomfortable. He then used ultrasound to assess the position of various arteries, nerves; and of course C6. He decided fairly quickly on the best entry route for the needle. I was then given a small amount of local anaesthetic to the skin, so I wouldn't feel the larger needle. He then informed me that he was starting to inject, so I needed to remain completely still. It went quiet for a short while and I started to feel rather anxious and panicked, I needed to swallow really badly. But I was aware I currently had a needle in my neck and any movement could lead to a potential disaster. They asked how I was doing and I used my left hand to signal I wasn't doing so great. I then put my hand up as if to say 'take the needle out now', and the nurse held my hand gently and reassured me I'm ok and that the needle was out. Apparently he wasn't 100% happy with his first attempt at positioning for injection, so wanted to try a second time. Then he warned me to stay still again and inserted the needle a second time. As he reassured me I was doing great, I could feel the liquid entering my neck. After a minute or two, we were all done.

Within seconds of sitting up on the table, my right eye began to droop heavily and I could also feel a heaviness in my neck, face and even a little of my upper gum (or so it felt). I also felt a little nauseous and out of it for a few minutes. I felt uncomfortable and a little anxious at this point. Dr Krishna and the nurse began talking to me, just generally about how I was feeling and generally about life 'do you have any siblings etc'. Within around 15 minutes it was extremely obvious that I felt totally relaxed and had become very talkative. It was really quite lovely. I told them that I'd decided to stick with the C6 injection for now and would happily stay in touch to let them know how I progress. I was not pushed into getting further injections and Dr Krishna said I had been very sensible in making this decision. He also told me (after I asked) that a follow up C3 or C7 injection would still be £200, whether I had it done today or another time and I would not pay another consultation fee. On that note, I decided to call it a day. I had a final chat with the nurse (she is super nice) and then made the payment or £795. I wasn't with Dr Krishna for any longer than 1.5 hours in total.

My friend then started the long drive back up the country. He noticed that I was really talkative and in a great mood, and I definitely felt it. Much less anxiety and nervousness than usual. The physical effects from the block haven't been nice, but absolutely nothing unexpected. My voice was a little hoarse but nothing crazy. My droopy eye began to normalise after around 3-4 hours. I struggled to swallow anything apart from water for about 5-6 hours (don't try to eat to soon, it scared me a lot). I still have a very uncomfortable feeling in my neck, as if I've got a big bruise in the area, but to be fair, I have had 7ml of liquid injection into my neck!! In terms of mental effects, still feeling more relaxed and I'm very pleased to have had the injection. I will note that it's not a miracle cure, but it's been a nice subtle drop in anxiety and tension.

Hope this helps!! Happy to answer any questions and I will continue to post how I feel in the coming days/ weeks.


----------



## lilnewk

BetterHealth23 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Unfortunately, myself and my friend were a little too busy today to capture any real footage. Nonetheless, I will detail today's experience while it is fresh in my head.
> 
> I got to the Bristol clinic at around 5.45pm ahead of my 6pm appointment. The surgery isn't solely a private clinic, there are lots of individuals there to see their regular GP. Dr Krishna's nurse came out to meet me at approximately 6.05pm and they asked me to come through for initial consultation in one of the GP style rooms.
> 
> In my honest opinion, Dr Krishna was great. I have absolutely zero affiliation with him, but I had a very positive experience. He asked me about my medical history and symptoms, before we discussed the SGB procedure in more detail. He made it very clear that he injects 7ml of anaesthetic into C6 using ultrasound guidance. He then recommended that I wait 30-60 minutes before deciding on whether I choose a C3 injection (and subsequently a C7 injection). He made it very clear that I should dictate the number of injections and he was happy to stay until all injections were completed. He made it very clear that it was always my decision as to whether I wanted another injection, and he recommended I stop after I experience some kind of symptom relief or feel better.
> 
> He noted that many patients come in absolutely adamant that they need 2-3 injections after reading online and that although he tries to deter them, ultimately he wants to go on the patients guidance. He noted that even though many patients have positive reactions to C6 (and C3), they will insist on more injections, hoping to gain a greater positive effect.
> 
> Both Dr Krishna and his nurse made me feel very comfortable before, during and after the procedure. I was made aware of all potential risks of the procedure and signed a consent form following this outline. I'll be totally honest, I found the procedure itself rather uncomfortable. Dr Krishna asked me to remove my top (I'm male), so long as I felt comfortable, so that he had perfect access to my neck. I then laid down flat, with a pillow underneath my back, to provide better access to the neck area. He then doused my entire neck with antiseptic, to reduce risks of infection. This was fairly cold, but not too uncomfortable. He then used ultrasound to assess the position of various arteries, nerves; and of course C6. He decided fairly quickly on the best entry route for the needle. I was then given a small amount of local anaesthetic to the skin, so I wouldn't feel the larger needle. He then informed me that he was starting to inject, so I needed to remain completely still. It went quiet for a short while and I started to feel rather anxious and panicked, I needed to swallow really badly. But I was aware I currently had a needle in my neck and any movement could lead to a potential disaster. They asked how I was doing and I used my left hand to signal I wasn't doing so great. I then put my hand up as if to say 'take the needle out now', and the nurse held my hand gently and reassured me I'm ok and that the needle was out. Apparently he wasn't 100% happy with his first attempt at positioning for injection, so wanted to try a second time. Then he warned me to stay still again and inserted the needle a second time. As he reassured me I was doing great, I could feel the liquid entering my neck. After a minute or two, we were all done.
> 
> Within seconds of sitting up on the table, my right eye began to droop heavily and I could also feel a heaviness in my neck, face and even a little of my upper gum (or so it felt). I also felt a little nauseous and out of it for a few minutes. I felt uncomfortable and a little anxious at this point. Dr Krishna and the nurse began talking to me, just generally about how I was feeling and generally about life 'do you have any siblings etc'. Within around 15 minutes it was extremely obvious that I felt totally relaxed and had become very talkative. It was really quite lovely. I told them that I'd decided to stick with the C6 injection for now and would happily stay in touch to let them know how I progress. I was not pushed into getting further injections and Dr Krishna said I had been very sensible in making this decision. He also told me (after I asked) that a follow up C3 or C7 injection would still be £200, whether I had it done today or another time and I would not pay another consultation fee. On that note, I decided to call it a day. I had a final chat with the nurse (she is super nice) and then made the payment or £795. I wasn't with Dr Krishna for any longer than 1.5 hours in total.
> 
> My friend then started the long drive back up the country. He noticed that I was really talkative and in a great mood, and I definitely felt it. Much less anxiety and nervousness than usual. The physical effects from the block haven't been nice, but absolutely nothing unexpected. My voice was a little hoarse but nothing crazy. My droopy eye began to normalise after around 3-4 hours. I struggled to swallow anything apart from water for about 5-6 hours (don't try to eat to soon, it scared me a lot). I still have a very uncomfortable feeling in my neck, as if I've got a big bruise in the area, but to be fair, I have had 7ml of liquid injection into my neck!! In terms of mental effects, still feeling more relaxed and I'm very pleased to have had the injection. I will note that it's not a miracle cure, but it's been a nice subtle drop in anxiety and tension.
> 
> Hope this helps!! Happy to answer any questions and I will continue to post how I feel in the coming days/ weeks.


Did you notice any change is dpdr visual symptoms?


----------



## BetterHealth23

lilnewk,

Although I used to have severe DP/DR in 2012, I was able to completely reverse it using a supplement containing magnesium citrate, zinc and vitamin b6. However, I continued to have issues with sympathetic nervous system overdrive ever since going through drug induced panic attacks/DP. I was hoping the SGB would help me ease anxiety and agitation symptoms and it appears to have done just that.

Sorry I can't comment further on whether the SGB helps visual disturbance from DP. However, I have previously experienced visual disturbance from DP and I know that calming the nervous system was paramount to this symptom (and others) dissapearing, so if your DP was induced by panic attacks and you still experience anxiery/agitation alongside DP, you MAY find relief with SGB.


----------



## 99880

Ray46 said:


> It will get better! I feel very guilty that you're now feeling this way...


Did things get better? From what I can gather, a lot of posts have been edited or deleted. That is a serious cause for concern when discussing the potential adverse effects of an experimental treatment.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I too have nervous system issues, as indicated by my username on this forum, so was very interested even beyond just the DP when this thread appeared. I have no panic attacks, & little to no anxiety, but definitely have lots of tension & some stress. Would love to know how long this ANS attenuation lasts for in your case, whether permanent/semi-permanent/temporary. Also, I wonder how long the uncomfortable neck feeling will last? Not long I hope.
> 
> Nice to hear a positive experience of Dr Krishna & the Pain Spa. I did post a link to one negative review, but that was just one out of 12 other positive ones. There are always two sides to every story, & it's always best too get to know both the positives & the negatives in order to make a balanced decision.
> 
> Awesome to hear that C6 has kind of worked for you, & am glad you're feeling somewhat better!


Thanks a lot! I'm very glad to have found positive results with just the C6 injection.

Perhaps the review was left by somebody who had chronic pain? Because he was very consistently telling me that for PTSD, he doesn't know which injections will ultimately provide relief to the patient, so he lets the patient guide him during the process. Perhaps with chronic pain he's more confident in advising the patient and pushes for more injections. End of the day though, this is a private service and you always have the right to say no! So this didn't really bother me either way.

In terms of the physical side effects, I'm still experiencing some very minor pain in the right side of my neck, but I can only feel it when I turn my neck in a certain direction at speed, no worse than a bruise. It was a very small price to pay for what I would describe as 60-70% relief of anxiety, tension and agitation.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Can you swallow normally again now? Do you have any lump in the throat type sensations? Has your DP or DR been affected either way?
> 
> That's peaked my interest in this procedure again!


The scariest part of the procedure was 100% the lump in the throat and inability to swallow. The droopy eye left after 3-4 hours so I assumed I was fine to eat. Big mistake. Even with tiny bites, I was completely unable to eat dinner and if I'd tried to eat with a large bite, I may have choked. Don't attempt eating for at least 6 hours, if you can survive longer without eating, I'd recommend it. Once I got to 6 hours post procedure, I managed to eat all my dinner with no problem at all. The only physical impact remaining is the pain in my neck. It's literally 50% of what it was yesterday and it doesn't worry me at all. I usually get pain from any injection, so it's really no surprise.

Putting a percentage on it definitely helps quantify the change. Unfortunately (you can read this above) my DP/DR symptoms were resolved a long time ago now, so I can only comment on anxiety and tension symptoms.


----------



## Dragonz

I am so glad it worked for you.happy days ????????????


----------



## Surfingisfun001

morph said:


> Did things get better? From what I can gather, a lot of posts have been edited or deleted. *That is a serious cause for concern* when discussing the potential adverse effects of an experimental treatment.


I agree. I wish they hadn't removed their content and abruptly left the forum. People need to know of the potential risks involved in this procedure.

From what we know, someone had a Stellate Ganglion Block done at C6, C3, and C7. They had an adverse reaction after the injection at C7 in which they started feeling really unwell which lasted weeks. They reported feeling numb to their body and senses and having difficulty holding their right arm up. We don't know more as they have left the forum.


----------



## Mayday

surfingisfun001 said:


> I agree. I wish they hadn't removed their content and abruptly left the forum. People need to know of the potential risks involved in this procedure.
> 
> From what we know, someone had a Stellate Ganglion Block done at C6, C3, and C7. They had an adverse reaction after the injection at C7 in which they started feeling really unwell which lasted weeks. They reported feeling numb to their body and senses and having difficulty holding their right arm up. We don't know more as they have left the forum.


We also know that he had 65% improvement after C3 & C6 SGB.
Someone posted his private mail in this topic what put him in troubles about his privacy. That's why he deleted.


----------



## Mayday

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Here's a good PDF from the NHS in the UK: http://www.wales.nhs.uk/sitesplus/documents/866/Stellate%20Ganglion%20Block.pdf
> 
> Worst side effect by far is permanent nerve damage (but it's very rare).
> 
> Here are another two links; http://www.anaesthesiauk.com/Documents/256%20Stellate%20Ganglion%20Block.pdf
> 
> https://www.londonpainclinic.com/complex-regional-pain-syndrome/patient-information-sheet-stellate-ganglion-block/


I'm feeling just a little bit down today.
But that can be explained by bad sleeping include exiting from the SGB. Let's see what the next days bring me..


----------



## Kdawg

Better health. You mentioned curing your DP with Magnesum , b6 and zinc. Can you tell me what kind of dosages you took?

Also Canadian here. Sent my passport renewal in. Spoke with Lipovs office. Will be flying in beginning of March to give this a shot


----------



## whatsgoingonwithmybrain

BetterHealth23 said:


> I achieved COMPLETE remission of both dp/dr and anxiety, with a supplement containing magnesium, zinc and vitamin b6.


BetterHealth, very interesting that those supplements helped you, are you still taking them, they are very much relevant to a blood disorder known as "Pyroluria" which I was confirmed as having.. Maybe there is a connection between DP/DR, and this condition. I wrote about it on my blog here if interested:

http://healthvibed.com/my-ongoing-pyroluria-story-until-success/

Please keep us posted here on your progress mate!


----------



## 99880

surfingisfun001 said:


> I agree. I wish they hadn't removed their content and abruptly left the forum. People need to know of the potential risks involved in this procedure.
> 
> From what we know, someone had a Stellate Ganglion Block done at C6, C3, and C7. They had an adverse reaction after the injection at C7 in which they started feeling really unwell which lasted weeks. They reported feeling numb to their body and senses and having difficulty holding their right arm up. We don't know more as they have left the forum.


Thank you for trying to clarify some of my concerns. It seems they had good reason to leave the forum. Let's hope they are doing ok and are able to receive support elsewhere. If the information was posted without their consent, it's not up for discussion until informed otherwise.

There is a reason my query was directed at a specific individual, so that issue remains unresolved.



Mayday said:


> We also know that he had 65% improvement after C3 & C6 SGB.
> Someone posted his private mail in this topic what put him in troubles about his privacy. That's why he deleted.


A breach of privacy on this thread is also a serious matter, let's hope it has been dealt with. It's sad to learn that there is a member of this forum who does not respect the privacy of other members.


----------



## BetterHealth23

whatsgoingonwithmybrain said:


> BetterHealth, very interesting that those supplements helped you, are you still taking them, they are very much relevant to a blood disorder known as "Pyroluria" which I was confirmed as having.. Maybe there is a connection between DP/DR, and this condition. I wrote about it on my blog here if interested:
> 
> http://healthvibed.com/my-ongoing-pyroluria-story-until-success/
> 
> Please keep us posted here on your progress mate!


That's true, zinc and vitamin b6 are recommended for those with Pyroluria. However, I tested negative for Pyroluria after doing a urine sample for biolabs. That was after stopping zinc and vitamin b6 for many months and only using magnesium citrate. When it comes to a healthy stress response, a magnesium deficiency can be crippling. I think for me personally, it made a world of difference. I struggle to think what would have become of me without finding magnesium.

2nd day since the SGB and still feeling the lowered anxiety and agitation.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Kdawg said:


> Better health. You mentioned curing your DP with Magnesum , b6 and zinc. Can you tell me what kind of dosages you took?
> 
> Also Canadian here. Sent my passport renewal in. Spoke with Lipovs office. Will be flying in beginning of March to give this a shot


900mg of magnesium citrate, 60mg of zinc and approx 18mg b6 for 4 days and my DP/DR was completely gone. I then dropped my dosage in half and stayed using this for a good 3-4 years. Then I switched to just a magnesium citrate supplement at 500mg a day; which has the same effect.


----------



## Silentless

I honestly dont believe this can cure DP


----------



## Kdawg

Completely off topic and don't want to derail the conversation from the SGB.

I finally after 12 years am trying to beat this. Got me some supplements, got a couple cognitive behavioural therapy books an started to see a Psychologist. Now something I have noticed so far on my journey is that upon waking my DP/DR is 10x worse.

Also something I have known for years since I got weed induced DP is that I don't dream, or at least don't remember my dreams. I think I may have 3-5 dreams in 12 years that I remember upon waking.

I googled and didn't find much, a few study suggesting people with PTSD and dissociative disorders will sometimes not actually sleep without knowing it. They will have crazy anxiety and think they are asleep but are not in their half awake brain. I wonder if there is something out there to stop dreams Lol! Or to remain calm when I sleep to see if it starts helping.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dream-catcher/201311/sleep-dreams-and-dissociation%3famp

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2725210/


----------



## BetterHealth23

Silentless said:


> I honestly dont believe this can cure DP


Stellate ganglion block or the supplements I noted above?

Either way, it's not really about what you believe, it's about what works for each person. This forum is a great platform to share what has helped one person and what MAY help another. I can list off lots of things that haven't helped me in the slightest or in fact have made me worse off in some way or another.

Each persons cause of DP will be different and way beyond that we all have different genes, different nutrient deficiencies and different lifestyles. Some people smoke weed and get DP, some people just wake up with it one day. If you google magnesium cured my DP (I just did by the way), you'll find several mentions of magnesium curing DP/anxiety.

In regards to SGB, there are already several members of this forum who found it helped there symptoms in one way or another (even if it wasn't a total cure).

Not sure on the basis of your comment, or to whom you were responding, but making comments like that with no justification, no scientific studies, no mention of personal experience; isn't very conducive to helping people on this forum.

Of course, you're more than welcome to your opinion and/or belief, but in the context of this forum; do you really need to share opinions or beliefs such as the one above?


----------



## Mayday

No depressed feelings after drinking beers & wine in the morning.
That didn't happened in 30 years.
I'm now 4 days after the SGB C6.
DP is still the boss in my mind and body.


----------



## Broken

I won't be pursuing this at the moment for financial reasons and also not enough feedback regarding its efficacy for DPD. But this quote is interesting and may provide a much cheaper route for those interested:

"Blunt needling of the stellate ganglion with an acupuncture needle is used in Traditional Chinese Medicine to decrease sympathetically mediated symptoms as well"

I don't know whether this is commonly done or not but would be interesting to find out. I'm pessimistic about this being a 'cure' but more of a piece of the puzzle


----------



## PermanentBrainFart

Mayday said:


> No depressed feelings after drinking beers & wine in the morning.
> That didn't happened in 30 years.
> I'm now 4 days after the SGB C6.
> DP is still the boss in my mind and body.


How are you doing now bro?


----------



## Mayday

No effect from the SGB on the C6 location against dp/dr.
I hope the end of the week the SGB on C3 location will do something.


----------



## BetterHealth23

Hi all,

I have given it a full 2 weeks post SGB, before talking in more detail about my experience. So what happened:

For roughly 4 days I felt great. My levels of anxiety and tension were much reduced and I felt very optimistic about the future. I wouldn't describe myself as depressed, but I felt more upbeat and positive.

After 4 days, something felt very wrong. I literally had a whole day of feeling extremely anxious, and I was extremely close to having a full blown panic attack while completing grocery shopping. My nervous system was so jacked up. I was literally getting anxiety over anything (exactly the same experience of while I had a huge panic attack on cannabis). I just felt like something about me or the world was wrong and was inches from descending into total panic. I was very fortunate to somehow stay calm during this time and not start believing the SGB had permanently screwed me over.

I used a combination ot mindfulness and deep breathing exercises to help calm me down and thankfully, I am now feeling 100% back to normal (pre SGB). Was it definitely the SGB? Hard to say, but I've not felt that anxious in nearly 6 years, so it's too big a coincidence for me. Will I get another SGB? No, it's not worth the risk of going through that again, even if I can't be certain it was related to the SGB. Do I advise other people not to get a SHB? Not necessarily, it may work fantastic for you. But please use all available information on this thread and make an educated decision.


----------



## Mayday

1 Hour ago I received the SGB shots C3 & C6 at the same time. Also with 4 minutes pulse in it.
I will update later if it do something for me.


----------



## Kdawg

Yes please do update!


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Ray46 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I got depersonalization disorder in summer 2011 when I was 14 years old. I'm 22 now. It was brought on by an anxiety attack after I smoked weed.
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27612365
> 
> In this study 30 active military service members with combat-related PTSD were offered a stellate ganglion block as part of their treatment program. Patients reported greatest improvement in the first week after SGB for the following symptoms:
> 
> irritability or angry outbursts
> difficulty concentrating
> sleep disturbance
> 
> 2 to 4 months later, patients reported greatest improvement in the following:
> 
> feeling distant or cut off
> feeling emotionally numb
> irritability or angry outbursts
> difficulty concentrating
> 
> It is hypothesized that trauma leads to an increase in nerve growth factor in the stellate ganglion. This in turn leads to a sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which increases the production of a number of neurotransmitters, including adrenaline and norepinephrine, which makes people anxious. Stellate ganglion block leads to a reduction in nerve growth factor and sprouting of sympathetic nerves, which helps reverse trauma/anxiety symptoms.
> 
> Here is the mechanism explainted in detail:
> 
> http://assets.cureus.com/uploads/poster/file/717/PTSD_SGB_Poster.pdf
> 
> Here is some other stuff about stellate ganglion block and PTSD:


You got it when you was 14 or 21?


----------



## Ray46

thanksforbeingalive said:


> You got it when you was 14 or 21?


When I was 14.


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Ray46 said:


> When I was 14.


I am a little bit confused.....

Hi guys, here's my story!

Sorry for my English I'm from Switzerland

*I got depersonalization disorder when I was around 20 I'm 21 now.* It was brought on by an anxiety attack after I smoked weed.
*I have spent 8 month living with it*. It was the most awful terrifying experience I have ever encounted. I was convinced I was losing my mind, slipping away into an irreversible insanity. I had forgetfulness, memory problems, poor concentration, permanent brain fog and emotional numbness. The only feeling I had was anxiety...


----------



## Mayday

Hi all

2 days after the SGB shots I feel no improvement about depersonalization.
I don't know if it's possible that the results is comming later?
Let's see what happens next days.
But no immediately improvement for me:-(


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> In Ray's original post he said he got it when he was 20, but in his recent re-post he said 14. I'm guessing it was just a type-o. It's shame that he edited the op & title of this thread, should've been left as is imho.


noticed this as well


----------



## Ray46

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> In Ray's original post he said he got it when he was 20, but in his recent re-post he said 14. I'm guessing it was just a type-o. It's shame that he edited the op & title of this thread, should've been left as is imho.


It wasn't a cure cause I still have dp. I don't wanna awake false hope.


----------



## Dragonz

So the author of this post didnt get cured?his dp came back?


----------



## Dragonz

At least its an improvement for him.im glad to see anyone get a break from this can.theres still hope with this then


----------



## Victor Ouriques

Long time without being here... 2 years I think. I had a major setback, never dropped so many tears in so little time, idk how I got so fucked up out of nowhere, and this topic got my attention, will try it probably in the C3, C6 area, I know a ton of anesthesiologists here in my city in Brazil, they all said it's a pretty simple procedure to do. My history is pretty close to OP, got it in 2011, I was 15, now I'm 22, still dealing with this. Had good days, amazing days, days without it, months without it, months meds free, and now I feel like a bubble of anxiety/derealization and dp/panic sometimes. Might be due to my GABA receptors being fried since I've been taking Klonopin since 2011 (some months of break but nothing too big, even though I think the best part of my "dr'ed life was 2014 when I was benzo free". Used to "heal" my dr, now I need to take it so I don't fucking freak out or feel like I'm in another world. Oh how I fucking hate this disease. Destroyed my teenage years and it keeps leeching everything from me. I'd rather be shot in both hands and have scars in them in and be free from this forever. 7 years is too much already. If this doesn't work then well, fuck it. Will have to finally accept that I'll live (survive) this way forever.


----------



## BetterHealth23

I just want to update everyone. It’s now been 3 weeks since my SGB. For the first 4 days following the injection I found a 60-70% drop in my anxiety and tension levels. I can’t comment on DP levels, as at the time I had no DP. After 4 days I began having very extreme anxiety. This lasted 2 days and began to fade as I made every effort to do meditation, deep breathing and reduce other life stress. At 2 weeks post injection I thought I was completely back to baseline, but sadly I began experiencing DP (first time in a good 5-6 years) and bad anxiety again. Luckily it is beginning to shift again, but this again is with very conscious effort to relax, do things I enjoy, distract myself with tasks I find challenging etc. I certainly won’t be having another SGB and I’m curious to know whether other people have experienced this. I’m sure it will settle sooner or later. It’s weird, after having DP, anxiety and even OCD at times over the years, and seeing how I have gone from complete hell to total remission in various ways, I’m not too phased about it all.


----------



## Kdawg

Just let everybody know. I am booked in Vancouver BC, Canada to get a STG in the C6 and C3 done next Tuesday 27th. If you never heard from me again it worked and I have left this place forever! otherwise I will post and update most likely the next day.


----------



## Mayday

Hi all,

I'm now 1 week after the SGB treatment c3- c6.
Unfortunately no positive response.
I don't expect it also anymore.
But I'm happy I have tried.
I don't want to blame myself in the future I didn't do everything what is in my power to get rid of dp/dr.

I hope it works for many of you all.
Good luck with trying.


----------



## Ray46

I am convinced that the stellate ganglion block will only help people who have an anxious form of depersonalization.

People without anxiety will probably not benefit from it.


----------



## Victor Ouriques

Ray46 said:


> I am convinced that the stellate ganglion block will only help people who have an anxious form of depersonalization.
> 
> People without anxiety will probably not benefit from it.


Yeah, seems like PTSD or Panic/GAD related DP/DR are the who benefits the most.

I have tremendous anxiety, panic like dp/dr. I feel like my nervous system is in a hyperarousal state, hypervigilance, all that shit.

Sent the studies to the anesthesiologist here in my city, the Doctor will read all of them and to see if he will do it for me or indicate another doctor to do it.


----------



## Kdawg

Block today at a private Clinic in Vancouver Canada. Even though I had a referral from my doctor stating exactly why I was getting it. I guess he didn't read it. Was literally in operating room, with gown on going over all my file. He has this wtf look when I explain to him it for disassociation and PTSD. He had to leave to go research it for like 20 minutes while I sat there with the nurses. He's quite experienced 30+ years. Agreed to do it when he came in because he knew if he didn't I would be flying to Chicago and he didn't want me to have to pay 3x as much and go to USA.

Did C6 and C3. It's been 6 hours now roughly, mentally I'm not sure how I feel since I'm in so much physical pain from it. Droopy red eye, massive headache, and massive nasal congestion (all gaurenteed symptoms) so tired and wanting to go to sleep but I can't because of my nasal congestion. Price to have this done was $1400 after taxes at the private clinic here. Just to be aware for any of my Canadian bros even though it's a private clinic in Canada you still need a referall from your family GP.

I don't expect a mirical. But I'm about 1 month in to my healing journey after 12 years with this finally truely believing this is just anxiety for first time in my life and I had money to spare. I made a ton of progress in the last 26 days on my own before this.

Honestly I probably won't post about this again until I'm about 5 days to see how this goes and continues.

In another week I will post a major update on my entire recovery process and how I got to where I am now after 12 years.


----------



## thy

To save me reading through all 47 pages of this thread, does anyone know how many people on here with DP have tried this and what the success rates were? Cheers


----------



## Kdawg

Ok, I know most of you would like huge details, but honestly im trying to recovery for the first time in 12 years so I don't like to think about or type out my symptoms to much.

I am making huge strides in recovery I believe after only a month of trying, constant tiring grounding myself 24/7.. so I don't know how much this SGB has actually done in past few days. If I had to guess it would be little to nothing. I had C6 abd C3 done. I have not noticed any more drastic improvements from my DP outside of what I have already been experiencing on my own recovery journey.


----------



## ValleyGirl

I just wanted to update again. I am 3 months post SGB and am feeling just as bad as I did before the SGB. I went through a depression following the SGB effects wearing off because I felt so great, kept almost going back into reality for 2 weeks and then my ptsd got triggered and it all went away. I thought for sure I was going to recover and its hard to go from that higher level of functioning back into the dark place. 
Looking back, I said post injection that if I had the money I would keep getting them every few weeks but now that I have had the time to reflect, the procedure is way too intense for me to want to get it again. Would I pay $2000 every few weeks to feel as good as the SGB made me feel if it was in pill form or something, yes I sure would. But its just not worth the intensity of the procedure and the cost to keep going back. Its a real shame. I was so hopeful that this would be answer we all have been waiting for.


----------



## Phantasm

ValleyGirl said:


> I just wanted to update again. I am 3 months post SGB and am feeling just as bad as I did before the SGB. I went through a depression following the SGB effects wearing off because I felt so great, kept almost going back into reality for 2 weeks and then my ptsd got triggered and it all went away. I thought for sure I was going to recover and its hard to go from that higher level of functioning back into the dark place.
> Looking back, I said post injection that if I had the money I would keep getting them every few weeks but now that I have had the time to reflect, the procedure is way too intense for me to want to get it again. Would I pay $2000 every few weeks to feel as good as the SGB made me feel if it was in pill form or something, yes I sure would. But its just not worth the intensity of the procedure and the cost to keep going back. Its a real shame. I was so hopeful that this would be answer we all have been waiting for.


I expect what you've said previously may be right, that while it is logical to "switch off" the stress response for a time, and may be a great relief short term, it may also require some kind of therapy to help keep from old stress-generating thinking patterns etc resurfacing, what do you think?


----------



## BetterHealth23

Quick update from myself as well. I actually re-experienced DP and DR after the SGB, despite being relieved of it for 5/6 years. I also experienced extreme anxiety; and I’m still working very hard on a daily basis to keep both anxiety and DP at bay. Feeling the best I have yet since the injection sent me astray. Wasn’t worth it for 4 days of 60-70% anxiety relief. If your issue is anxiety; I’d honestly say deep breathing, mindfulness, funny tv shows, good music and relaxing warm baths will do more good than the SGB (based on my experience alone).


----------



## thy

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> The long term success rate is a big fat ZERO. Out of the people that had it done (OP included), only a few responded, & just with short term effects.


thanks, how many people have had it done?


----------



## Mayday

thy said:


> thanks, how many people have had it done?


Me


----------



## Surfingisfun001

thy said:


> To save me reading through all 47 pages of this thread, does anyone know how many people on here with DP have tried this and what the success rates were? Cheers


11 people have reported having it done in this thread. About 7 people reported having no real improvement. Some have reported short term benefits. I don't think anyone has actually reported lasting long term improvement or being 100% cured.


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Try this http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/83786-hope-nad-therapy/page-2

We all have some kind of brain damage and need to restore receptors


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> How do you know this; have you scanned the brains of everyone on here? That's a rhetorical question by the way. Most DP sufferers who have had brain scans done show no brain damage at all, so your conclusion isn't based on any statistical evidence, it seems to be merely assumption.


What about our receptors that just do not work in proper manner?


----------



## ValleyGirl

Phantasm said:


> I expect what you've said previously may be right, that while it is logical to "switch off" the stress response for a time, and may be a great relief short term, it may also require some kind of therapy to help keep from old stress-generating thinking patterns etc resurfacing, what do you think?


Yes, I absolutely do still agree with this. You have to deal with your issues before this has any real chance of successfully working long term I think.


----------



## eddy1886

thanksforbeingalive said:


> Try this http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/83786-hope-nad-therapy/page-2
> 
> We all have some kind of brain damage and need to restore receptors


Think you may have misunderstood the poster Auto...Think the poster is talking about chemical problems in our brain..

Brain Damage is a very harsh description though...Chemical Imbalance is my personal belief....Hence medications help so many...And also the reason why therapy fails so many..But those are just my own personal theories...I cannot prove them....

I think if we actually had brain damage we would be dealing with some serious physical as well as mental impairments....


----------



## thanksforbeingalive

eddy1886 said:


> Think you may have misunderstood the poster Auto...Think the poster is talking about chemical problems in our brain..
> 
> Brain Damage is a very harsh description though...Chemical Imbalance is my personal belief....Hence medications help so many...And also the reason why therapy fails so many..But those are just my own personal theories...I cannot prove them....
> 
> I think if we actually had brain damage we would be dealing with some serious physical as well as mental impairments....


yes i mean chemical imbalance, and maybe NAD therapy can help restore balance.


----------



## Victor Ouriques

My anesthesiologist diagnosed me with chronic pain after "physical trauma" so we can try this and my insurance cover me. If it helps, I don't mind getting a needle in my neck every now and then.


----------



## Zeenabop1

Ray46 said:


> Hey guys I have a question for you:
> 
> There is a study from 2003 which I think explains why my depersonalization became so much better
> 
> Basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder.
> 
> Simeon D, et al. Psychiatry Res. 2003.
> Show full citation
> 
> Abstract
> In contrast to the noradrenergic dysregulation described in PTSD, little is known regarding noradrenergic function in dissociative disorders. The purpose of this preliminary study was to investigate basal norepinephrine in depersonalization disorder (DPD). Nine subjects with DSM-IV DPD, without lifetime PTSD, were compared to nine healthy comparison (HC) subjects. Norepinephrine was measured via 24-h urine collection and three serial plasma determinations. Groups did not differ significantly in plasma norepinephrine levels. Compared to the HC group, the DPD group demonstrated significantly higher urinary norepinephrine, only prior to covarying for anxiety. The DPD group also demonstrated a highly significant inverse correlation between urinary norepinephrine and depersonalization severity (r=-0.88). Norepinephrine and cortisol levels (reported in a prior study) were not intercorrelated. We concluded that although dissociation accompanied by anxiety was associated with heightened noradrenergic tone, there was a marked basal norepinephrine decline with increasing severity of dissociation. The findings are in concordance with the few reports on autonomic blunting in dissociation and merit further investigation.
> 
> PMID 14572626 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> Full text
> 
> This study says that patients with depersonalization have a higher production of norephineprine doesn't it??
> 
> So basically the stellate ganglion block BLOCKS the production of it thats why I feel so much better I think.


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## Zeenabop1

Hi Ray, I wanted to follow up to see how u r doing now post shot, as well as any other people u know of.. I am particularly interested in your feed above because as I understood Dr. Simeon's study- Those study participants actually had low noripenephrine levels which is different than those with PTSD who actually are producing to much?
This is all so complicated and I believe warrants further collaboration between those of us who were and perhaps are not interested and took the shot nthose of us still interested and didn't take the shot. Do you know if everyone who took the shot is still here n doing ok or did any end up with worsening of symptoms? It seems the subject just dropped off


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## Zeenabop1

surfingisfun001 said:


> 11 people have reported having it done in this thread. About 7 people reported having no real improvement. Some have reported short term benefits. I don't think anyone has actually reported lasting long term improvement or being 100% cured.


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## Zeenabop1

Can we get this subject going again with all of the participants.. I started a thread titled PTSD shot for Depersonalization.. We should be exploring this further as there is a possibility that 1. Dr. Lipovs expertise in giving this shot would give us an edge on a possativr outcome.
2. How many times and where the injection was placed among participants could make a difference.
3. There is a very valid suggestion by one of the participants that if your dp/dr is more anxiety based it may work better. If that is the case and more people are helped even if only those who suffer anxiety based do it could also give more clues clinically as to what to do next for non anxiety based DP/DR.
I read through the 47 pages on this subject a few times n realize that participants reported back a few times bit not sure if all participants reported back n how everyone is doing now? If any of us are going to explore this further we need the participants in the discussion. Personally I would go tomorrow n give the shot a try but what is holding me back is the fact that Dr. Simeon reported low norepinephrine levels amount those with chronic do/dr in her study which contradicts the heightened noripenephrine in PTSD. Or dose it??? Can u have high norepinephrine levels but test low through your urine? I would guess not or why then would Dr. Simeon make the comparison in the first place? I would so much like to get this conversation going again. I think we are giving up to soon and to many brilliants minds here to figure this out We could be missing something..


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## Phantasm

Zeenabop1 said:


> Hi Ray, I wanted to follow up to see how u r doing now post shot, as well as any other people u know of.. I am particularly interested in your feed above because as I understood Dr. Simeon's study- Those study participants actually had low noripenephrine levels which is different than those with PTSD who actually are producing to much?
> This is all so complicated and I believe warrants further collaboration between those of us who were and perhaps are not interested and took the shot nthose of us still interested and didn't take the shot. Do you know if everyone who took the shot is still here n doing ok or did any end up with worsening of symptoms? It seems the subject just dropped off


I think the subject dropped off as it had reached a natural conclusion, at least for the time being. Unfortunately it didn't turn out to be as successful a long term solution as people had hoped it would be. It's also expensive and people should be aware there are potential dangers in having shots like these. For those reasons, in agreement with the OP, I'm moving this thread out the recovery section into treatment options.


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## JamesFub

I am confused, What are you even talking about? I genuinely want to know.


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## dead alive

There was a guy from the Initiative Depersonalization Studies group on Facebook who tried and reported positive effects, despite not having helped in PD, helped in anxiety. Follows his relate

Since I had my SGB procedure, I have to say that it was worth the investment. Not because it cured me from DPD, but because how it changed my outlook and attitude towards my father.

Before I had the procedure, I could barely stand sitting in the same room with him. I would have two dialogues going on in my head if I was forced to sit and talk to him. A normal one out loud, and an inner one where I was thinking how much I'd like to punch him in the face, among other things. We really had no relationship to speak of. This has been going on for decades. All my abuse issues stem from him.

Since the procedure, I feel completely different in terms of how I view him. When I talk to him, the only dialogue I have is the one out loud. I don't start getting angry, defensive and on edge when he's around. We actually have seeked out each others company. Even when I try to think about things that would usually make me mad or emotional, I can't. It's like they didn't happen. It's like all the times I've tried to forgive him finally worked. I have never gotten along with him like this. I've even offered to make him a sandwich if he's watching television, or getting him a beer.

I still have much better visual acuity. I'm calmer, and have less fear. I'm also more aggressive. I know it sounds like an odd combo, but I do feel calmer, lighter in spirit, and also more confident and sure of myself. I can't explain the aggression. I just know when I walk into a room, I size people up and don't feel any fear.

It's a great feeling not to carry around any baggage as it pertains to my father. It's like we are starting our relationship all over again. This alone was worth getting the procedure.


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## DPDrMom

Does anyone have a doctor in California who has the balls to prescribe new treatments like this. We need help finding a doctor. We are being told they won't take us on a patient at all. Please PM me if you know of any decent California doctors for an adult.

Please Help

Please DM me....can you DM on this site? If not, please reply. Thanks


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## leminaseri

eddy1886 said:


> This is the best most definitve post Ive read on here for a long time if ever....Fair play Valley Girl.....We are all delighted for you....And thanks so much for the updates...Your experience and info is invaluable to the rest of us (Especially those with either CPTSD or PTSD) It may not work for us with the illegal drug induced DP but I can see amazing potetntial for those whos DP came about as a result of abuse etc.....In fact I can see where this would be very very useful for girls who have been either physically emotionally or sexually abused...
> 
> Well done miss!!!!!!!!!


what if i recovered fully once from drug induced and then relapsed from abusing? do i have now both reasons? or was the first cause solved?


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## Ray46

[quote name="Mayer-Gross" post="470569" timestamp="1498059290"]

i had a c6 done yesterday,-in Bristol. I have had DP for 30.years. I felt more spaced out and a little anxious form the experience.

You were more anxious after the treatment back in 2017?


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## 35467

No, felt nothing. One of many stories that can not be replicated by others.


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## Ndhp123

Hello all,

I apologize for commenting on an old post, but I thought I would add my experience to the list. I suffer from DPD, triggered by smoking weed at the age of 14 or 15. I say triggered because I suffered through severe sexual and emotional abuse and neglect for the first 10 years of my life until I was removed from that environment. Weed triggered it, but it is the trauma that causes it. I got the procedure yesterday 5/25/2021.

I didn't put a name to DPD until very recently. I was diagnosed with PTSD at the age of 17 and I have always believed that was my primary issue. For most of my life, I've found ways to distract myself from dealing with my issues. I primarily distracted myself with work, but I've gotten to a point in my career where I do not need to be in the weeds of all the details and find myself with a lot more free time. It has become impossible to no longer face my demons. I tried anti-depressants, but they did not give me the desired results. I heard about SGB several years ago and decided this year to try it. After scheduling, booking a flight, and paying for the procedure, I found this forum, did some research, and realized what I actually suffered from. I was very tempted to cancel. but decided I had gone this far and would try it.

I booked my appointment through the Stella Center, and quite honestly, I think the procedure should be taken out of their hands. They connected me with a completely and totally unqualified "patient coordinator". This person did not have the right qualifications and did not really understand PTSD or any other mental disorder. I think this is a HUGE mistake. You never talk to a nurse, doctor, or any other qualified person on mental health. Their qualifying process is complete garbage. You answer a few surveys about feelings and recent experiences, which really should be guided with a qualified individual, they ask you a few medical questions, and then approve you. It was a huge red flag for me from the beginning, but when you are desperate to feel alive, you will do anything.

The doctors I went to for the procedure are in Dallas, TX, and that staff was great. They are not affiliated with Stella Center outside of contracting to do the procedure. I actually had a bit of an emotional breakdown there and started crying. They were very compassionate and understanding. They calmly walked me through the process and showed great concern for my well being. I would give them a 4.5/5 for sure. However, at the same time, they have no mental health individuals on staff and the doctors are pain management experts with very little psychiatric expertise. I think their understanding of PTSD is likely limited. The doctor wanted to go ahead and do the left side too, since I flew 700+ miles to be there, but the Stella Center patient coordinator never made me aware of that option, and told me to book my flight home 8 hours after the procedure, which is what I did. If I would have realized I could have stayed an extra day and went ahead and got the left side done too, I would have went ahead and done so.

The procedure itself sucked because you are getting two needles stabbed into your neck and that alone creates a lot of anxiety, but I didn't feel any pain and my side-effects were minimal. My left arm was numb for a while, and my right eye was red and droopy. These side-effects were expected and lasted about the 8 hours I was told they would last. Today, I don't have any pain and just a little tenderness' in the neck. While doing the procedure, the doctor told me that most patients feel a "pop" in the brain and start to feel instant relief. I did not feel this pop or relief, and the doctors kind of looked at me expecting some sort of "new me". Honestly, that is what I was hoping for because that is how Stella Center sells it. I was definitely calmer after the procedure was done, but I could not really equate this to the success of the procedure or simply being done with the procedure. I felt a lot of pressure to say "yeah, I feel different" and I wonder how many people get the procedure and succumb to that pressure and that success rates are skewed higher than they should be. I can 100% for sure say that it has had zero impact on DPD (at least so far). I will give the procedure time to see if it will help with anxiety and the jumpy and easy startle symptoms of PTSD.

I think the PTSD symptoms have lessened over the past two decades and that DPD is the lingering major disorder. Because of this, unless Stella is willing to make and pay for all of my accommodations, I will not back and get the left side done. Despite their "waiver", I do think there is a lot of potential that Stella could be sued.

I am not writing this to discourage anyone who is considering the procedure, but this is my experience. My biggest concern is that the Stella Center is simply mining for gold by selling snake oil to a lot of people. I have no doubt it probably works for a certain group of individuals with a certain type of PTSD, but the Stella Center does not do proper due diligence to make sure the right patients are getting the procedure. They will basically accept anyone who signs the waiver and I think some of their practices are misleading or at the very least ineffective.

Regards,

ndhp123


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## Doniado

oolongmonkey said:


> I also received the SGB from Dr. Lipov. It didn't don anything for me unfortunately. Having said that, I dont want to discourage anyone as there were people who came out of the procedure literally jumping for juoy.
> 
> Many authorities claim that DP is a result of the parasympathetic response. I agree wholeheartedly. I don't have much anxiety, if at all, I'm almoston the opposite end of the spectrum where I am so dull, dead, unmotivated and fatigued. I fall asleep like a rock, could sleep for seemingly forever and never feel rested. One with heighted sympathetic response is one who would be overly jumpy when startled, me, you could tell me a nuke is headed for Chicago and I would yawn. I would be interested in Lipov would be willing to do an injection which focuses more on the parasympathetic branch.
> 
> I live in the area, if anyone wants to meet up or wants some recommendation on where to stay, where to eat, hit me up.


If you don't have a problem of anxiety any more its great.
If you still have dpdr try ozone rectal insufflation ann HBOT


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## Doniado

oolongmonkey said:


> If HRV is stimulaton of the para-sympathetic state what do you think about the theory that DP is largely an over-active parasympathetic state? Could that not exacerbate symptoms? I ask this, because my DP was triggered by excessive mediation and things that are parasympathetic in nature(mediation, deep relaxation, trance music, massage) often make me feel worse. Many in the field believe this to be the case.


My dpdr also trigger by meditation.
Apparently this is common.google cheetah


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## Doniado

WilliX said:


> Guys,
> 
> Had the SGB done in Chicago. No effect.
> 
> Its not PTSD....
> 
> Alll my apologies.
> 
> I have interressting lab results I wanted to post.
> 
> Can put pictures online ....


Can i ask you if you suffer from anxiety?
Or only tunnel vision?
Do yu suffer from derealization also?


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## Doniado

nf12345 said:


> Had the last 3 shots not much difference unfortunately


Do you suffer from anxiety or only dpdr?


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