# Iv'e almost 100% cured my DP, here's exactly how....



## mike500

Hi guys, 8 weeks ago I started on a treatment for my DP which has now almost fully cured it. I had constant derealization for about 14 years and then very severe derealization and deperonalization for the last 7 months before my treatment started.

Iv'e discovered something that I believe is the cause of all DP, and the treatment iv'e done because of this information has finally smashed my DP for the first time in 15 years and literally saved my life. So iv'e joined this forum to share an article that I had been working on for the past couple of months, and hopefully help others get out of DP.

Here is the link to my article.

Enjoy the read, and I wish you all the best of luck...

http://derealizationcure.webs.com/


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## luctor et emergo

Thanks and congratulations!

Will come back after reading.


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## Newhope85

I would say run like hell. Run away from this place. Rejoin the human race.


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## Billy D.P.

Wow, this is a pretty great post. I was literally just googling zinc before I stumbled on this. I know a lot of people on this board feel there's a connection between zinc and DP-DR so it's good to see something like this that seems to corroborate these claims in more detail.

I'm just starting on the paleo diet today. It's insane how many different people with different illnesses have benefited from going gluten free, especially paleo. I've been reading these boards up and down for the last month in trying to figure out a way to beat this and there seems to be a common thread involving healthy diet, rebalancing the body and spontaneous recovery.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of diet did you go on and how much zinc did you take per day?


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## Pondererer

I think there's a good chance you're on to something here. It definately would explain why nobody seems to be able to recover, like at all, withouth going down a looong road of trials and errors. I'm definately going to try this out! 

I litterally bought zink supplements for the first time in my life, just yesterday. I feel like this might just be a sign of all the pieces of the puzzle finally coming together for me 

I disagree with the taste test though, as for several medicines and vitamin supplies i've tried, they always seem to taste worse and worse over time ^_^


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## Pondererer

Ok, quite confused now. According to my google reasearch, alot of the foods that have zinc, also have lots of copper in them. Do you have like a spreadsheet of what to eat and not?


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## mike500

Thanks for reading guys, I really hope this method can help other people.

My diet now is strictly any food & drink that does not contain high amounts of copper &/or sugar, wheat is a very bad one for high copper ( bread, dough, cereals etc ), so my only carb source now is from potato, porridge & bananas, I could eat rice too but I don't like it. Everything else is just eggs, fish, cheese... so it's a very basic diet.

I took liquid ionic zinc ( full doze of half a cap ) once a day for about 5 straight days until it started tasting a little too strong, ever since then iv'e only had 1 dose roughly every 3 days maybe 4. However although raising my zinc levels back up most likely helped and made me feel much calmer, I think the main thing that got me out of DP was the detox from copper.

Also yes I WILL be running like hell  iv'e spent way too much time trapped in DP and not living my life, and dedicated my last 8 weeks into writing all of my experiences into my article to share with others. So i'll check here now and then to hopefully see some comments of your positive results, I won't be here much, only occasionally as I need to put all this behind me now and move on, so unfortunately will not be able to respond to too many questions, sorry!

One day at a time guys, have patience, never give up on your recovery!


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## mike500

P.S. if it contains high copper avoid it even if it contains high zinc!.. if you take a good liquid zinc supplement to make up for not getting enough in your food then you will be fine.

The amount of foods & drinks to avoid is quite vast, what I did was just check google for each of the foods I eat to see if it contains high copper and cut that out from the diet. It's a very long and complex thing to document because if you take potato for example... potato is fine but NOT potato skins as the skin is high in copper, and then white fish and most other fish is fine to eat, but not sardines, another example is almost all fresh fruit is fine, but all dried fruit is not. So whatever you eat just research it on google, and do searches for 'foods high in copper'

I'll make a quick list of ALL the foods I am now eating...

Potato ( mainly potato waffles & croquettes ),

Porridge,

White fish,

Eggs,

Cheese,

Peas / Carrots / Greenbeans,

Apples / Oranges / Bananas,

Orange Juice,

Milk

This now is my diet and the ONLY foods I eat. Just a quick note of several things I know to avoid which are very high in copper...

ALL nuts, baked beans, mushrooms, tea, coffee, then obviously all wheat products. There is a lot more in the high copper list but google will be your best friend to document everything you need to know.

I hope this helps


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## KJames

Pondererer said:


> Ok, quite confused now. According to my google reasearch, alot of the foods that have zinc, also have lots of copper in them. Do you have like a spreadsheet of what to eat and not?


I second this. What foods are recommended?

Thanks


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## Alex617

balled of a dead soldier said:


> I would say run like hell. Run away from this place. Rejoin the human race.


You mean this forum? I don't get that sentiment, I don't get dp/dr often but when the symptoms come back it's comforting to come back here and reconnect with people who 'get it'. Once I feel better, I just don't feel the urge to come back on.


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## Alex617

OP good for you, although I'd like to know, if I didn't have dp/dr for 24 years, and got it in one night after smoking a joint, is it safe to assume that joint had massive amounts of copper in it?

Sorry to be the negative nancy, but dp/dr isn't triggered by the same reasons for everyone. It's a disease of anxiety/stress, not everyone suffers from that due to metal toxicity.

Oh and I've been taking 50mg of zinc every day for 2 years, including the night I got dp/dr.


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## Ianar

I've also taken a high quality zinc supplement for many years and have contained to do so.


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## mike500

Another thing to possibly look into that's mentioned in my article, is quite a lot of people do not have 'bio-available' copper. Which means the body cannot get rid of any excess copper no matter how much zinc they take. This is something that you can develop at any age I believe, so you don't necessarily have to be born with high copper or be low in zinc for DP to appear one day ( if my findings are correct ).

There is obviously a lot more mystery left to DP and I do say in the article there is still a chance it could be something else that triggers DP, also I do say it seems like this could be a treatment to hopefully help most people, just like it has with me. So just a quick note to say that everything I mention I am not stating as a fact for all sufferers, but instead something that could hopefully help a lot of others and possibly even open the door to leading to someone else taking my information further and discovering even more DP triggers.

Good luck everyone with your journeys.


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## mike500

P.S. I have just added a little revision to my article about other causes of copper accumulation, in case it can help anyone...

'Zinc isn't the only kind of deficiency that can lead to copper accumulation, other deficiencies include manganese, iron, B-vitamins and vitamin C can all cause copper to accumulate if you are deficient in any of those. So you will need to tailor your diet and supplementation to YOU and find out what it is that is keeping your copper high ( if it is indeed high ), as everybody is different.'


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## mike500

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I'm so happy that you've found the root cause of your DP/DR, & I hope that this information helps others out too. I'd like to try & give it a go, as most of what you mention about the copper personality applies to me. Changing my diet is severely hard for me though, so let's see if I can actually do it.
> 
> Interestingly, metal fillings are 8% copper! Do you have any?


Sorry I did not see your comment, I actually have 2 fillings, which yes could easily be a contributor to copper accumulation if they do contain it.

Also good luck with trying this method if you go ahead with it.


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## Pondererer

Found a good site for low copper diet: http://gicare.com/diets/copper-restriction/


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## hurley78

Is anyone else trying this and if so what have your results been? I am very interested in seeing what others results are.


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## Mike_NY

Congratulations Mike. I too am almost 100% cured from Derealization over the past few months and I believe getting control of my anxiety is what made it go away. However, I find myself feeling down and wanting to cry sometimes. I am still not the person I was before all this happened. Maybe I am getting a little depression after suffering from such a trauma in my life for a year. I just started a new job and have no friends here so the only time I get to talk to someone is when I get home to my wife at night. My family all live in another country. I'm sure it will pass, and it's definitely only a mid week thing. At the weekends I am a lot happier because I am around my wife and friends. Anyway, congratulations on your recovery.


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## Jkbobell

I'm interested in this also. I seen it says you are taking ionic zinc. I bought some that says zinc ionic and after I got home I looked at the ingredients online and it has copper in it.

Looks like the zinc assay is the way to go?


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## Newhope85

Can you be tested for zinc and copper levels? I was thinking of going to a naturalpath doctor to find out if I'm vitamin deficient


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## Fatoush

I've been eating healthier and working out and I guess I've been detoxing from copper and I didn't even know it. A lot of people do detoxes like that, it may or may not be linked. It seems like a healthy clean diet to me. Sitting in the sauna and sweating it out helps a lot too.


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## simonlebon

I am going to get my zinc and copper levels tested. Mineral toxicity was one of the few tests I didn't spend money on. Worth a try I guess.

But a few of the foods I'm bummed about , because I like them, and they also have many other health benefits, and normally would be considered very healthy foods:

Avocados

Garbanzo beans --> HUMMUS!!!

Organ meats - Liver.. I personally like liver, and it is actually considered a "super food". It has tons of vitamins(B12) and minerals, but yes also copper.

Nuts and seeds - I eat pumpkin seeds, which are HIGH in magnesium, which is GOOD for anxiety!

So, I dunno. Some of these "avoid" foods actually have things in them that are known to help anxiety/depression.

:/


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## mike500

Hi again guys, just to respond to some of your comments. My liquid ionic zinc does not contain copper in the ingredients, so yes you will have to find one that does not contain copper. Some manufactures add it to it as they know zinc depletes copper, but they are not aware of some people having copper toxicity. My brand of zinc is 'Good State Health Nutrition' and contains 0% copper.

Also that's great to hear Mike_NY, stopping anxiety definitely seems like a proven way that some people can use to heal DP, stopping the anxiety can start off a positive chain reaction. When you're not anxious and worrying then zinc stays up at a natural level, which in turn gradually brings copper back down, which eventually leads to better liver & adrenal gland function, which then have even more ability to remove excess copper, and so on and so on.

Also saunas are actually proven to expel and cleanse excess copper from the body, which is why you probably feel better afterwards. And also light exercise, aerobic exercise, slow walks and deep breathing are apparently proven to expel it too.

You can definitely be accurately tested to see if you're deficient in zinc. However the downside is you cannot really do accurate testing for copper, hair mineral samples can be taken to give a general idea but they are never accurate as most of the copper in you is sitting mostly deep inside the brain and other organs, and only taking actual tissue samples gives an accurate result.

Yes unfortunately all nuts & seeds are bad for containing high amounts of copper, however there is a known method you can try to remove the copper. There are youtube videos you can search for that instruct on how to soak nuts in water to remove it, making them copper free. I don't know if it works with seeds but it definitely works with some types of nuts.

Also just to respond to a question near the beginning of this thread, iv'e been researching more and looking into cannabis and why it might trigger DP. So these are new facts I have just found and have now added this revised note into my article...

When highly toxic cannabis rapidly depletes B12 & Zinc, the drop in both of those make copper spike, then to top that off cannabis is also very high in cadmium. Cadmium drives copper even deeper into the tissues, so it seems plausible that the combination of all 3 of these factors happening at the same time when smoking cannabis could be a trigger of DP, if copper is in fact the trigger. Cannabis is mostly an illegally grown plant around the world and does not come with any high quality control standards, so growers are much, much more likely to use large and dangerous amounts of fertilizers and pesticides to gain the most guaranteed and largest possible crop yields, in result adding a lot more dangerous & unnecessary cadmium into the end product.

When highly toxic cannabis rapidly depletes B12 & Zinc, the drop in both of those make copper spike, then to top that off cannabis is also very high in cadmium. Cadmium drives copper even deeper into the tissues, so it' seems plausible that the combination of all 3 of these factors from smoking cannabis can be a trigger of DP, if copper is in fact the trigger. Cannabis is mostly an illegally grown plant around the world and does not come with any high quality control standards, so growers are much, much more likely to use large and dangerous amounts of fertilizers and pesticides to gain the most guaranteed and largest possible crop yields, in result adding a lot more dangerous & unnecessary cadmium into the end product.


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## mike500

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> You mentioned you had some arthritis that disappeared at the same time your DP. Did you know that Metal Hyperensitivity is known to cause Rheumatoid arthritis? You might find that you have a sensitivity to copper as well as high levels of it. I have suspected Metal Allergy/Hypersensitivity as the root cause of my DP for some time now. Here are some interesting case reports of people recovered from various ailments after being diagnosed & treated: http://www.melisa.org/metals-disease/case-reports/


Mine was actually diagnosed as Rheumatoid too, all gone by copper detoxing. I think you're right because even though i'm mostly cured now I think it has left me with a hypersensitivity to it. I can barely eat a pasta meal now or bread without feeling negative and anxious for hours afterwards. Thanks for the link iv'e just read through it, so, so many problems are down to metals, I know someone who fully cured their bad hearing and nausea a few years ago from cutting out food that contained mercury, like tuna etc.


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## deco

Hi,
tomorrow I'm starting your low copper diet. My question is, how many mg are you taking by day, and how many times a day?
thank you


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## brill

Mike, have you ever been tested for Pyroluria??


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## 58779

It would be great if people trying this copper detox post their progresses and results here. We can see if it is an individual case of copper sensitivity or applies to more which could well be.


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## Mike_NY

I second this. I would be interested to know how the first taste was for people from here when they first swish it around their mouth to see if it tastes bad or there is no taste. I'm tempted to buy it and try it myself, but I have come such a long way with my recovery that I don't want to do anything to disrupt it. It's for sale for $19 on Amazon (the brand Mike uses)


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## mike500

No I haven't been tested for Pyroluria. Also when I first tasted a doze of zinc I tasted nothing for the first 2 days, it was like just holding water in my mouth which shows a very bad deficiency. From the 3rd day I started tasting it and it got stronger each day. Basically just follow the dose amount on your bottle, mine is 2.5ml ( half the cap ), then start using it less often once you can taste it straight away and tastes noticeably stronger the longer you hold it in your mouth, I only have 1 dose now every 4 days roughly.


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## Newhope85

I'm going to start taking the supplement tomorrow and start watching my diet. See how it goes.


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## mike500

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I've bought some of the Good State Liquid Ionic Zinc from Amazon UK. Was more expensive than the US site at £23.98 including delivery. I'm not holding out much hope that it will work for me, but will give it a go nonetheless. Either way, it's cheaper than TMS!
> 
> You say that bread & pasta are bad if you're on a low copper diet, but all the research I've done suggests that it's only wholemeal bread & pasta that is high in copper, whereas white refined flour products are fine.


Ahh right okay i'll have a look into that then, I might have been reading mixed opinions on different websites. Also good luck with your detox!


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## Jkbobell

I'm on board with this also. I am waiting on a bunch of blood work I had done that included heavy metal testing. But what I have read that the hair test is the most accurate?

Anyway, I received the zinc assay yesterday and did the taste test. It tasted like water with no taste for about 5-10 seconds. It never did have a "bad" taste.

Im going to try it again today and I suppose I will keep taking until I can taste it with the shortest amount of time. Then skip a few days.


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## Midnight

How much zinc per day in mg? 50?


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## mike500

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Thanks. I'm gonna fast for a few days when I start, that way I won't be taking in any copper & the extra zinc should deplete my levels faster.


It's obviously up to you, but personally I wouldn't recommend not eating when doing a heavy metal detox. Apparently it can possibly be a bit of a rough ride to detox from depending on the person, and the body is better able to handle it when it's getting good nutrition, so it might be harder to get through it if you're fasting, just an opinion though. Also taking manganese along with zinc boosts the effects of lowering copper even greater, so personally I just eat plenty of bananas for manganese. When you do eat, make sure not to take zinc within an hour or so of having anything dairy as it competes with zinc for absorption. 

Also to answer the other guy's question about zinc dosage, if you look earlier into this thread I mentioned how much I take, but just make sure to follow what it says on your bottle.


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## AlexDAK

If gluten free diet helped you, it can be also a celiac disease.


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## Jkbobell

Thanks I appreciate the info. I read about the blood work not catching it in the bloodstream before I think. I will stick to what I'm doing now and see how it goes.



Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> People who want to sell you a hair test are usually the ones who will say that it's more accurate, along with various other people who have accepted what they've been told & then pass on the same misinformation. The reality is that hair testing is notoriously unreliable: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/hair.html
> 
> That's why the NHS in the UK doesn't use or recommend it: "Many alternative testing kits are expensive, the scientific principles they are allegedly based on are unproven, and independent reviews have found them to be unreliable. They should therefore be avoided." http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/food-allergy/Pages/diagnosis.aspx
> 
> If the tests were for levels of heavy metals, then it will only tell you how much was circulating in your blood stream at the time of the test. But what it won't tell you is how much are stored in your bodily tissues, like your brain for example, where they may be causing you problems. Blood tests for heavy metals are thus pointless also. The only way to tell if you are going to benefit is to lower your metal levels through diet, detox, or chelation, & see if anything happens.


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## DPRss

So can someone suggest a detox diet?not only for copper but most of those that could result in our symptoms?and are there metals which are safe to take while doing such a diet like zinc?


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## Billy D.P.

Just wanted to post this here because I thought it interesting and it relates to this topic...

So I was cooking dinner tonight and fried up three scallops as an appetizer. I then ate them on an empty stomach before my meal and immediately felt the effects. I have visual symptoms to go along with my DP and they basically went haywire for a good half hour or so. I also felt like I could really feel something in my blood, sorta like I do when I take magnesium and zinc supplements (seems to be common for minerals). Shellfish are the highest source of copper in food so I don't think this is just a coincidence or my symptoms flaring up randomly. I'm extremely aware of how I feel all the time and I honestly haven't felt this much of a spike in a while.

Anyway, just thought I'd post this here as an interesting tidbit. I've slowly been incorporating less copper into my diet (eliminating gluten, nuts, legumes, soy and dairy, as per the paleo diet, will go a long way in helping you out) and can definitely feel the results already. I'd encourage others to try this as well so that perhaps we can get a better understanding of the role copper plays in all our problems. After all, it can't hurt and we certainly have nothing to lose at this point.


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## mike500

It definitely adds to the argument 'Billy D.P.' that a lot of people's DP is nutrition & copper related. When I had flare-ups from eating or drinking something i'd get the increase in DP but it's like I could actually feel it too and my head would feel heavy and my mind like soup, and sometimes it's like the body can ache a bit too.

Good luck 'Autonomic Space Monkey' with your detox this week, I wish you the best of luck with it. Maybe your initial fasting method will work even better who knows, I do believe though that fasting can actually boost & repair the immune system too, like a bit of a reset, so it can have great benefits.


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## hurley78

All,

I just wanted to let everyone know that I went to the Naturopath today and she was able to tell just by looking at me that I am zinc deficient. The sign for me is vertical ridges on my fingernails. She gave me the liquid zinc solution to swish in my mouth and after 10 seconds it still tasted like water. After all of the intake history etc we have decided on doing an organic acid test which is done through a urine sample and we will have a better idea where to go from there. She said that we may look into doing a metal tox screen later but for now this is a start.

I have been eating a diet very low in copper since first reading this and am interested in seeing her path of treatment after getting the lab results back in about 3 weeks.

A big thank you to mike500 for posting this information......if this is what brings me back to reality from this horrible condition I will owe you a debt of gratitude that couldn't be repaid in 10 lifetimes.

I will continue to post updates as I get them.


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## mike500

I truly hope you all see some results from trying this. Also keep in mind that both my DR & DP were quite severe and it was only the 'harsh edge' of that severity that lifted within the 1st week. My depersonalization and anxiety was almost fully gone after about 2 weeks I think, then every week after that the derealization reduced bit by bit as the weeks went on, and it was at around the 6th week where I REALLY started noticing things looking a lot more real.

This is something ( if it's due to copper overload ) that can possibly take many weeks or months, it can take a long time for the body to get rid of copper, so unfortunately it is a waiting game to see if it works or not.


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## simonlebon

I ordered the ionic zinc and it tastes like total crap. lol At least I know now. Don't think this specific issue is the cause of my DP. I do think overall nutrition is definitely a big piece in the puzzle though. I personally think it's a combination of things that cause DP. Not one single thing, so not one single thing that will fix it.


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## mike500

Keep in mind however that it's not just zinc, and I believe it's copper that's mostly the problem, and fixing zinc is only one of the ways to re-balance copper. There are many other reasons why copper can be high in you...

B-vitamins, vitamin-C, iron... being low in any of those can also cause high copper. So like you say, an overall re-balancing of a complete healthy diet can also be the key, and it will all contribute to removing excess copper from the brain that's built up over possibly a very long time.

Iv'e also found a very interesting youtube video explaining copper if anyone is interested in finding out about this issue...


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## simonlebon

Ordered Doctor's Data Toxic and Essential Elements hair test. Got results today. Everything was in range except my copper was actually a touch low. Barely. So if anything I could use a little more copper. Definitely don't think I have an copper toxicity/elevated levels. I also did a zinc & copper serum, which I know isn't probably real accurate, but that came back within range as well. Oh well, now I know.


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## Visual

mike500 said:


> Keep in mind however that it's not just zinc, and I believe it's copper that's mostly the problem, and fixing zinc is only one of the ways to re-balance copper. There are many other reasons why copper can be high in you...
> 
> B-vitamins, vitamin-C, iron... being low in any of those can also cause high copper. So like you say, an overall re-balancing of a complete healthy diet can also be the key, and it will all contribute to removing excess copper from the brain that's built up over possibly a very long time.
> 
> Iv'e also found a very interesting youtube video explaining copper if anyone is interested in finding out about this issue...


Mike, Have you ever had a blood draw for copper or test for Wilson's disease?


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## hurley78

Keep us posted ASM!!!!


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## eddy1886

Interesting! Never read this thread before!


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## Jkbobell

Day 13 for me with the low copper diet and zinc. Like ASM I can tell some subtle changes also.


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## Visual

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Maybe I'm not getting a placebo effect after all then!  Today the sun is in, but everything still looks slightly sharper & more real. Usually things only look this real when the sun is out during spring/summer. Again, much less woozy in the head. However, didn't manage to get up until 11:30am today,
> 
> Another thing I noticed yesterday, while out walking, was that I wasn't squinting as much. I usually have to squint a lot because of the sun, but not so much now. I think it has helped with a sensitivity to light, where too much brightness when DP'd automatically makes you squint more than you would otherwise.


Great. Would you please describe what you are eating that qualifies as low copper?


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## hurley78

I haven't started zinc supplementation as of yet but I am eating:

Salmon

Parboiled Rice

Steak

Smoothies - Milk, plain greek yogurt, strawberries, blueberries, banana, Whey protein

Cheerios

Turkey

Eggs

Small amounts of white and sweet potatoes without the skin

Asparagus, Brocolli, Beets, Peppers, small amounts of peas and corn

Etc...

I am avoiding all breads and items of that nature, I am also not 100% on whether oatmeal would be good or bad as it seems contradictory based on the fact that rolled oats appear high in copper and oatmeal does not.

It is rather hard to find low GI carbs that fit into a low copper diet so I am mostly eating rice. The link below is useful in determining how much copper is found in foods.

They key that mike500 had also mentioned is to keep copper to a minimum so try to stay below 2 grams if possible as 2 grams appears to be the daily recommended value.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/


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## simonlebon

I did a Pyroluria test several months ago in my quest to figure out what was going on. It was slightly elevated, but still within normal range.


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## microspect

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Maybe I'm not getting a placebo effect after all then!  Today the sun is in, but everything still looks slightly sharper & more real. Usually things only look this real when the sun is out during spring/summer. Again, much less woozy in the head. However, didn't manage to get up until 11:30am today,
> 
> Another thing I noticed yesterday, while out walking, was that I wasn't squinting as much. I usually have to squint a lot because of the sun, but not so much now. I think it has helped with a sensitivity to light, where too much brightness when DP'd automatically makes you squint more than you would otherwise.


Hi when it's cloudy or Gloomy outside, I sense DP/DR gets worse. It could be the white background everywhere and over stimulation of the eyes. Wear some dark sun shades, that seems to work for me.


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## jotteff

It is funny and sad at the same time how all you hypochondriacs think your DP is really caused by some zinc or B12 deficiency.

And the theory about the high copper levels is just ridiculous. Don't believe all the shit that some people write on the internet.


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## 58779

jotteff said:


> It is funny and sad at the same time how all you hypochondriacs think your DP is really caused by some zinc or B12 deficiency.
> 
> And the theory about the high copper levels is just ridiculous. Don't believe all the shit that some people write on the internet.


No one knows what the hell causes dp or even any other mental illness for sure, but everybody has hypotheses and ideas because they are all they can go on. And sometimes they work obviously. No reason to belittle people who are only trying to help themselves when the cure is not known.


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## Flavius

Well, it's kinda makes sense, anyway I buy supplement of Zync in caps to see if it work. I don't have all the time derealization felling, but sometimes. Anyway I give it try, nothing to lose.


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## Mike_NY

This is promising news. Hang in there! I'm considering trying the zinc myself. I've been pretty much fully healed for a couple of months but I experienced bad DR last Friday when I was really stressed out. Since Monday I've been getting DR in the afternoon an hour or so after eating lunch. It will be intermittent until I get home and relax then it dissipates and I feel normal again the next morning.


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## KJames

Keep us updated ASM


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## mind.divided

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I did indicate that I have now stopped the zinc in my last post. The bad side effects are outweighing the good at this point, & I have to stop so I can get some sleep. However, like I said I might try the vitamin combo recommended for Pyroluria, & may get a test for it before I do as well. I have had some anxiety today which I think is linked to the zinc, I'll take derealization over anxiety everytime so I'm off the supplements. One step forward, two steps back.


I've read that during a copper detox you can get a lot of side effects because the body is cleansing itself. But it's all worth it at the end.

You can read more here: http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper%20elimination.htm


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## brill

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> So if I decided to change my mind & continue, how long exactly will I have to go without sleep for


would highly recommend getting tested for this instead of 'trying to get the dosage right'

Otherwise, it's very doubtful that you'll truly know if you have the condition. The dosage would depend on the severity of a positive test.

I got tested about a year ago. You just send off a urine sample and they'll provide an email report. Cost under a hundred bucks I think.


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## brill

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> That's what I'm thinking now, but this whole Pyroluria thing still kinda sounds like a load of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo to me. That's why I initially just went for the vitamins, because it was a lot cheaper than paying out for a spuirous test (I'm on a very tight budget). Maybe I should take a leap of faith on this one...
> 
> After stopping the zinc yesterday, I managed to get at least some sleep last night & feel a lot better for it. Stopping it was the right call for me.


There are actually quiz's/questionnaires that you can use first to see if you have symptoms of the condition. I had so many of the symptoms that I thought for sure I had the condition....which would be an easy fix. However, after getting tested for it, I didn't have it. But I also understand the cost situations as well. I, like you, supplemented off and on prior to finally just needing to find out for sure. It's a very real condition though.


----------



## Jkbobell

As far as the skin stuff ASM, this may or may not have anything at all to do with the zinc thing, but, I've always had a mole type thing under my eye. Since I started the zinc it went away.

Again, may or may not have anything at all to do with it but it's just something I noticed.


----------



## simonlebon

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I've researched all the symptoms on multiple sites, & if there is such a thing as Pyroluria, I'm pretty sure I have it. But like you, a test could prove otherwise.
> 
> I just noticed another effect of the zinc; I have smooth elbows now! All my life, as far as I can remember, the skin on my elbows has always been rough, white, & flaky. I put it down to me always leaning on stuff with them, & wearing long sleeve tops that are hard on them. After 2 weeks on the high dose zinc, they are now smooth & almost completely immaculate. I never figurered that I had any type of psoriasis (which is apparantly a symptom of Pyroluria), so maybe I do, but only on my elbows. I am becoming more & more convinced that it is real, & that I have it. But, am I convinced enough to put my money where my mouth is? Hmmm...
> 
> -_-


I had this exact same thing and when I cleaned up my diet last summer my elbows smoothed out as well. For me though the big things I changed were cutting the sugar and gluten. So I attributed it to that, but who knows. I also pumped up the fish oil. They are still nice and smooth though!


----------



## hurley78

So I am feeling somewhat defeated today. I went back to the naturopath for my follow up to the amino acid analysis test and the focus wasn't really where I hoped it would be. There are markers in the result that show candida overgrowth, low levels of B6 and B5 (B12 was good) and 0 vitamin C in my body. The results also showed a high level of detoxification markers meaning that my body is trying to rid itself of toxins (pretty obvious). I suppose I should be happy with the information provided since I know that I need to correct the candida overgrowth issue which will help with the gut/brain barrier issues and supplement with a B complex as well as Vit C. I was hoping for the conversation to be a little more focused on the detox markers but she didn't feel it was as important as the candida. I have read some articles regarding candida and DP/DR but will have to research more to glean a better understanding of what this path may uncover. Ultimately I will have to do a heavy metal test to determine where my copper and zinc levels are at. Even though I know my zinc levels are in the toilet it isn't fair to conclude that my coppers levels are high.

I will continue to stick to a low copper diet for some time to come but will also have to remove items to facilitate a candida diet. I think for my part of it I went into this appointment with the idea that I would come out with some concrete answers instead of just hunches which was silly on my part. I am just so sick of this condition and want to return to normal life that another day without an answer is just hard to take.


----------



## hurley78

I wouldn't let my experience today hinder your decision to go or not to go. I am by no means done with the naturopathic route. I am just cautious about it at this point. I don't know enough about candida and its relatation to DP/DR or lack there of to form an intelligent opinion on the subject. I have read posts on various pages of people saying this cured them, I have read that a better attitude cured them. There are a multitude or reasons for this hell we live in. In the modern day of the internet you can find a relation between DP/DR and farts (yep there is a result in google for that lmfao) so why could I not expect that candida might be a contributor as well.

I think I was just a little bummed out because she didn't just look at me and say you are copper toxic and here is how we fix you. For some reason I had this notion in my head and that is why I feel somewhat let down. Based on some of my results this still may very well be the case but that will require another test.

For anyone interested in trying a non conclusive test (but possible indicator) try the candida spit test.

Also if anyone has some good info on the link between DP and candida please feel free to send it my way.


----------



## Visual

There is a bit of irony about Snake Oil ...










It is doubtful that it had snake oil in it ... at least once he was selling thousands of bottle a year. While it was declared a sham and now the expression means quack-medicine, take a look at the ingredients. Two of them will help with most of the problems listed on the label - these are even used to this very day! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil#From_cure-all_to_quackery


Camphor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camphor#Medicinal

Capsaicin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin#Research_and_pharmaceutical_use
So, yes beware of 'natural' doctors just as one would any doctor. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water ...


----------



## Zed

Naturopathy is a great way to go to keep our body's physical health in check. I've been seeing naturopaths off and on for around 30 years with great results. After so many years, it's second nature for me to eat well these days - well most of the time anyway - I still love pizza 

Hurley.... Patience is the key when making changes, whether it's physical or psychological. The results may be difficult to see at first, but they happen. It takes time for our bodies to adjust. Baby steps.. .. .. .. Maybe your naturopath thinks it's better to treat the candida issue first? You can always ask why he/she is seemingly ignoring your concerns with copper toxicity.

It's well understood our physical health is directly connected to our psychological health. What we put into our bodies feeds our brains. It's a no-brainer really that anyone suffering from a mental illness should be eating well.


----------



## mike500

Hi guys, I hope you're all getting on well. Just a quick update on my recovery...

I'm still eating healthily and sticking to my copper detox, and taking all the usual supplements like B-vit complex, vitamin C etc, and zinc now iv'e only been having maybe once or twice a week, iv'e actually been forgetting to even take zinc lately because i'm feeling naturally better.

The past week has been my best week so far, iv'e been impressed with how real things have looked this week, and iv'e been starting to almost forget about the DP and not thinking about it as much because things look so good. To my surprise i'm still actually improving each week even now, the last time I posted on this thread 3 weeks ago I would have said at that time I was definitely 95% recovered, but now 3 weeks on from that iv'e improved much more and I would say again I am now actually 95% recovered. This shows to me just how deep I was actually in DR/DP, i'd completely forgotten what 'real' was actually like and thought I was 95% cured 3 weeks ago when in hindsight I would say that was probably about 75%+ recovered. So the 95% I think i'm currently at now in reality could again actually only be about 75% lol, I keep getting better each week, one week I think to myself "this is 95%", then another week later feeling even better and again thinking "woah!! now THIS is 95%"... so I just won't actually know until i'm fully out of this because iv'e spent half of my life in DP and forgot what 100% normal looks like.

That's great news to hear that a couple of you here have been getting some positive results, but like you all say there could very well be other causes so experimentation and time, lots of time could result in something. ASM when you mentioned about things seeming brighter and clearer after 2 weeks, that is EXACTLY the same first effects I started having when I first noticed myself improving in my first week. The best I can describe it as is.. I was in severe DP but noticed how things ( objects & surroundings ) started to suddenly look brighter, more detailed/clearer and less hazy, and the strongest thing I noticed apart from that was the way objects moved as I walked past them, it was like someone cranked up the screen from standard definition to HD, everything that moved seemed much more fluid, kind of like switching from 40 frames per second to 60 frames, if you've ever looked at 60fps on a computer game screen for the first time and thought just how fluid and real it looked, that's what I first started seeing. That's the best way I can put it, and ever since then it's just improved and improved and then the next effect that followed after that was things actually starting to look like they're in front of me and me being more aware of what i'm looking at.

Also with the insomnia, I had that bad for the first few days, and for the first month I still had headaches, mood swings, tiredness etc etc, and I could only do basic physical tasks for short periods before feeling wiped out and stressed, and being in a conversation with someone for more than 5 mins was almost impossible, but all this eventually vanished after about a month or so. Even now I still get some symptoms but they're there less and less as the weeks go on, and i'm very stable now and nearing zero symptoms. Some people can experience BAD symptoms that can last for many months from going through a copper detox, so iv'e been lucky in that respect, everyone is different.

So just remember guys if this detox works for you then it WILL most likely take months. Take care guys & look after yourselves, stay in there. Will be back again in several weeks to read up on how you guys are getting on.


----------



## mike500

P.S.

Hurley what you said about them not taking much notice about the copper investigation, this is the common problem I have stumbled across almost everywhere iv'e looked online. From your 'average joes' on the street, to professionals in scientific fields, almost everyone talks about the ignorance in mainstream science and medicine to the copper problem ( among many other things ), so don't let it get you down that you feel that copper was mostly ignored. It's not even recognized or understood by most of the mainstream community, so all you're going to hear about are the things these people were taught through mainstream sources.

If I went to 10 different doctors and nutritionists in my area with all the health problems and DP I had and I was trying to tell them about copper, then probably almost all of them would dismiss it and give me the best thing they understand which definitely will not be copper related.

I had to solve this thing on my own, sad but true.


----------



## hurley78

I spoke with the Naturopath again today and this is just step one of the process. The first thing we are going to do is clear up any candida issues if they are even present which would in turn help with any gut/brain barrier issues. We will assess how I feel at my next appointment in mid July and see if my symptoms are the same or improved. Also during this time I will be sticking with my current low copper diet and we will proceed with the heavy metal testing to get a base line of where I am at followed by chelation to pull any excess metals out and see what is there. That is the test I will be excited to see the results of. I certainly feel better about what we are doing going forward today than I did yesterday.


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## simonlebon

When I did the naturopath thing she did the same thing. She told me to start with the gut. Then look at the metals stuff later. But she was always way more concerned with gut health.

And she told me my adrenals were probably shot, and there is no quick fix for that. She said adrenals can take a couple years sometimes to get balanced back out. After all I've been through and getting some pretty good stretches of hardly thinking about DP, I think a HUGE part of healing is simply time. The body needs time to straighten itself back out. Homeostasis.


----------



## HNKR

simonlebon said:


> When I did the naturopath thing she did the same thing. She told me to start with the gut. Then look at the metals stuff later. But she was always way more concerned with gut health.
> 
> And she told me my adrenals were probably shot, and there is no quick fix for that. She said adrenals can take a couple years sometimes to get balanced back out. After all I've been through and getting some pretty good stretches of hardly thinking about DP, I think a HUGE part of healing is simply time. The body needs time to straighten itself back out. Homeostasis.


Then why do so many people have it for so long, why dont their body heal?


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## hurley78

simonlebon said:


> When I did the naturopath thing she did the same thing. She told me to start with the gut. Then look at the metals stuff later. But she was always way more concerned with gut health.
> 
> And she told me my adrenals were probably shot, and there is no quick fix for that. She said adrenals can take a couple years sometimes to get balanced back out. After all I've been through and getting some pretty good stretches of hardly thinking about DP, I think a HUGE part of healing is simply time. The body needs time to straighten itself back out. Homeostasis.


I have done some reading and some people have simply healed by adding probiotics to their diets and cleaning up what they are eating. I don't suspect this will be the case for me but fixing things as we move forward should only be beneficial.



HNKR said:


> Then why do so many people have it for so long, why dont their body heal?


I think the simple answer to this is because of how we as a culture eat. We consume copious amounts of sugar, caffeine and chemicals. I haven't had diet soda in nearly 3 months but the tests that were done a few weeks back still show very high amounts of aspartame in my body. It takes a long time for our bodies to rid ourselves of these chemicals and additives. If you keep pounding your liver and body with things that it doesn't know what to do with or how to get rid of it makes the bodies job very hard. This is why the candida diet is so strict and minimal.


----------



## simonlebon

HNKR said:


> Then why do so many people have it for so long, why dont their body heal?


I think there are some basic things like diet, exercise and relaxation (ie stress management) that we didn't pay attention to for YEARS that plays a huge role in bringing us to this point. So time isn't the entire thing, but I'm saying once you make some healthy, relatively simple changes to your life, it's a matter of time... lots and lots of time. And that gets rough because you start second guessing and getting impatient and wondering why you aren't getting better. The body just takes a very long time to sort itself back out. If you can just accept that and be patient that helps tremendously in recovery.


----------



## Pondererer

simonlebon said:


> I think there are some basic things like diet, exercise and relaxation (ie stress management) that we didn't pay attention to for YEARS that plays a huge role in bringing us to this point. So time isn't the entire thing, but I'm saying once you make some healthy, relatively simple changes to your life, it's a matter of time... lots and lots of time. And that gets rough because you start second guessing and getting impatient and wondering why you aren't getting better. The body just takes a very long time to sort itself back out. If you can just accept that and be patient that helps tremendously in recovery.


My guess is, it's alot of those small mistakes that accumulates over a long period, and it takes just as long to correct it back. Good news is one should feel small improvements relatively fast once you get all these things under control. I feel things changing in a positive direction, but in all honesty, i'm an emotional rollercoaster along the way -.-


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## simonlebon

Pondererer said:


> My guess is, it's alot of those small mistakes that accumulates over a long period, and it takes just as long to correct it back. Good news is one should feel small improvements relatively fast once you get all these things under control. I feel things changing in a positive direction, but in all honesty, i'm an emotional rollercoaster along the way -.-


absolutely. Unfortunately for me it got so bad early on that the minute improvements weren't enough and I just couldn't stand it anymore. Thank God for meds, and the hospital and groups I was able to get in that helped give me enough hope to get from one hour to the next and one day to the next. Now I can go about a week or so of feeling pretty darn good. I need to continue to be grateful for that and when I look back, yes I can definitely see a very positive direction.


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## vanuti vetru

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> I already have chronic insomnia (26 years & counting), that didn't change, but when I got even more insomnia on top of that induced by the zinc, I hardly slept for 4 days. It was more than I could cope with, & know that stopping the zinc was the right call for me. Maybe I need to do what you did & start taking it every other day, or just a few times a week, & at a lower dose. I'm not done with this thing yet, but am more interested in looking into Pyroluria at the moment than copper.
> 
> Glad to hear that you still feeling better & better mike!


I've been taking zinc daily for over a year now, 10mg of aspartate just before going to bed. As far as sleep quality is concerned, i can only speak of positive effects. Maybe you were simply taking too much?

Chemical imbalances in body can be a complex thing. Sometimes fixing one specific deficiency makes other imbalances, or toxicities, more noticeable.


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## hurley78

So I am doing my heavy metal testing today. I should have my results back in about a week. I am very very interested to see what comes back!


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## hurley78

This test is chelation for 20 heavy metals. My first urine of the day needed to be collected followed by 2000mg of DMSA and 150mg of DMSP. After that I collect urine for the next 6 hours (1 hour away from the end of the 6 now). Freeze it and then off to the lab tomorrow and hopefully have the results in a week


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## yourstruly_demi

Is it okay for me to drink detox teas? that are natural?

and how did you sleep? I have Melatonin pills but they send me on a drug trip very scary nightmares so I stopped taking them.

I am still unsure what my derealization is caused by it could be anything I have so many problems.I have had DR for 3 years straight 24/7. I just woke up one morning and I never been the same ever since.


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## simonlebon

yourstruly_demi said:


> Is it okay for me to drink detox teas? that are natural?
> 
> and how did you sleep? I have Melatonin pills but they send me on a drug trip very scary nightmares so I stopped taking them.
> 
> I am still unsure what my derealization is caused by it could be anything I have so many problems.I have had DR for 3 years straight 24/7. I just woke up one morning and I never been the same ever since.


Really sorry to hear that  But glad we have this forum where we can all share and we know we are not alone.


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## sydneyarnce

Are you or did you guys have the blank mind?


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## hurley78

So I got my heavy metal test results back and I do not have any copper toxicity. I do on the other hand have elevated levels of lead. I don't believe lead to be the culprit behind my DP/DR but we are going to proceed with removal of the lead using a bunch of different herbs over the course of the next 3 months rather than doing chelation to get rid of it since it isn't at a level that would require that form of treatment. Looks like the next step for me is treatment for candida to see if I make any breakthroughs there.


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## hurley78

The other interesting thing that came back is that I was actually below normal for the levels of both copper and zinc.


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## hurley78

I have to say that the first thing that I ate when I found out that I wasn't copper toxic was a few peanut butter sandwiches.....I think of all the high copper foods that is the one that missed the most.


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## simonlebon

Yeah, again I think this was an interesting thing and could very well have been a main contributing factor for the starter of this thread (and others?), but I really don't think it's the most common cause of DP.


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## jestemzalamany

You wrote in your article:

"I've heard people say that most or a lot of sufferers developed DP during or not long after their teen years. There are a lot of things that happen during your teens that contribute to keeping zinc levels very low...

- Too much consumption of sugar and sweets.

- Growing & developing a lot.

- Introducing the hobby of drinking alcohol for the first time in life.

- And for women they also have the extra factor of estrogen too which rapidly depletes zinc.

- Then there's those new things in life that teens have to start worrying & stressing about ( worrying rapidly depletes zinc )...

- Puberty and all the changes that come with it.

- Getting through high school.

- Having to leave school and think ( worry ) about your future & career."

Well, i'm still in my teen years... i'm 15. what does it mean? What should i do?


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## justlivingmylife

This has been working for me as well, I found this link on this forum a few months ago and tried this and it actually worked for me as well, just a fyi for any lurkers out there... It worked at a different pace for me than it did for OP, but none of our bodies are the same, so... I'm realllllly starting to recover.



ASM said:


> The OP found the root cause of his own DP, not everyone's DP is caused by high copper levels (despite what he believes). I had my levels tested & they were normal. I also followed his advice & while I initially felt some improvements, it quickly turned into a disaster for me & I had to stop. Each person is different, & a one-size-fits-all aproach to "curing" DP is therefore unrealistic.
> 
> If you want to find out what your copper level is, order the following test after reading all info very carefully: https://www.mindovermetal.co.uk/hair-mineral-testing.html
> 
> More info on hair mineral testing can be found here: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/54512-how-accurate-is-hair-mineral-analysis/
> 
> All the best.


Hey ASM! I just wanted to say that through my research before starting OP's plan I learned that a lot of times when flushing the copper out of your body, your symptoms will greatly worsen, albeit temporarily, and that it's a part of getting better since your body is flushing so much copper out of your system. Now, I in no way shape or form and implying that I know what you experienced after you attempted this, but after reading your statement that it "was a disaster," I just wanted to throw that out there and thought you might want to know. Obviously you only know your problems, but if I was in your position I'd want to know that as well. After all, we're all just trying to recover here.


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## Jkbobell

I backed off from taking Zinc everyday to about every other day a few weeks ago. I really couldn't tell a difference from taking it everyday as to every other day other than the mole, or whatever you want to call it, came back. Not a big deal just something I noticed lol.

I'm with ASM as that I can say there were some positive results. I might try the 7 on 7 off also and see how it goes.


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## XboxOneBoy

Yes you might be taking Zinc supplements but you could still be stocked up on high amounts of copper and/or depleting your Zinc levels rapidly because of all the feelings caused by high amounts of copper.


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## TK!

I've been taking a dose of liquid zinc (half a cap) every day now for about a month. Tasted pretty bad at first and it's gotten even worse since then so I'm definitely not zinc deficient. Didn't change my diet too much since nothing of what I eat seemed to be high in copper. Anyway my verdict is that it doesn't do anything at all for me in terms of my DR, which is a bummer, I got really excited when I read OP's story since I very much have a "copper personality". Haven't experienced any side effects from it (besides nausea when I take it on an empty stomach... it's real gross) so I'm still taking it daily for maintenance.

I'm interested in hearing if anybody else has had success? I'd like to hear more from jkbobell and justlivingmylife to see how they're doing, or anybody else that has given this a shot.


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## Jjj123

http://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/do-you-have-chronic-stress-and-anxiety-these-two-minerals-might-be-the-cause

Check this out. Shows link between copper and zinc and anxiety


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## Jjj123

Interesting concept. I take zinc regularly, even before this just BC it's awesome for sleep and testosterone.

Glad you found your silver bullet. I wonder how much is placebo.


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## sunnyspot

Hey mike500 I have to send a great big THANK YOU for your research, presentation and info!!! I've had this nasty affliction for over 12 years and had no idea of any of the things you shared. I am very grateful and owe you my health. I am the EXACT example of a copper toxicity sufferer and will be starting your detailed plan to try to get back to "normal". I really can't thank you enough and hope you read this. I also hope you believe in karma and that there really IS karma (!) because you deserve a very rich, healthy and rewarding life for sharing this and asking nothing in return besides helping others.


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## Jjj123

Anyone else have success with this?


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## Leah87

For all the people that took Zinc before, Remebwe, if you took regular standard Zinc in capsules, the quality and absorption are not the same than take ionic liquid Zinc and follow the detox from copper diet. Since I got my DP I knew there was something chemical altered in my brain that causes de malfunctions. Thanks a lot to Mike for put all this ideas in a very clear concept full of reality. I will start my detox next week and I will tell you my results. Pd. My DP right now is not that bad because I told to myself I will continue living this precious life that G.d gave me and also I'm taking meditation, L- theanine, Melatonine before sleep and focusing in the things I love in my life!!! Keep waking people. ❤????????????????????


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## Leah87

This makes a lot sense with this DP all we have!! Copper stimulates the diencephalon â€“ the emotional brain, while zinc stimulates the cortex â€“ the calming, rational mind. In stimulating the brain, copper produces high levels of neurotransmitters, such as serotonin, dopamine, epinephrine, and norepinephrine. These work together and in opposition directing a wide range of emotional responses. This over-stimulation becomes the recipe for creating an unstable mind and ultimately mental illness. Various nervous disorders such as depression, phobias and schizophrenia are associated with high blood or tissue copper levels.


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## XBrave

Schizophrenia is also related to the levels of histamine . Copper/ Zinc/ Magnesium ratio affects histamine levels immensely .

Marijuana and some other psychedelics immediately decrease the level of B12 and magnesium along with other vitamins, metals, and minerals. This could lead to other unbalances in the brain chemistry and the connections with different brain areas then are cut because of malfunctioning and not producing the right hormones. AND BANG!!! DP/DR.

also panic attacks consume all our magnesium storage quickly. that imbalance could mess up with the brain chemistry and BANG!!! DP/DR.

This thread is really great. Gave me a lot of motivation and information to research about.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/mental-emotional-health/metals-and-the-mind/

http://www.narconon.org/blog/marijuana-2/10-reasons-to-stay-away-from-weed/


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## Jkbobell

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Day 12 & I'm starting to feel very clear headed. I'm eating 3 quarter pounders for dinner, & 1 for supper most days. YUM YUM!


Very good to hear ASM. If I recall we started about the same time with the zinc thing. I have been taking it everyday for quite some time now until recently I went a week without it now I'm every other day. But I can say I do feel at least some better.

I'm interested in your natural method now and may try it.


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## dissociative12

Started taking zinc a few days ago. Just the regular tablets but if it's not successful I'll move onto liquid.

I did feel a bit better yesterday and this morning but I've come down with a vomiting bug so I feel pretty rubbish this afternoon.

I started taking SSRIs too though last week so it could be either.


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## Jjj123

Monkey, there's only 5 mg of zinc in a quarter pounder.

At that rate it'll take you a thousand years.


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## Jkbobell

Sorry to hear ASM. I came here today to check this thread to see how things were going.


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## seven

How are you today ASM?


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## 106473

just added zinc to my £100 spend this week of supplements. Now i am gonna have to google all my supplements and figure out if they are giving me copper, interesting thread.


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## Broken

I've been here, most people are slightly low in zinc so it can give a little positive effect. Plus it has an antidepressant effect as it's in high concentrations in the Hippocampus but I doubt very much its the silver bullet (no pun intended). I went down this route for years, and still occasionally somehow mysteriously find myself back (even now) blaming this on minerals/vitamins. It's difficult what advice to give as in this persons case it clearly helped, but I would advise to avoid endless hours googling lyme disease, brain fog, candida, coconut oil curing alzheimers, krill oil, turmeric, chocolate, green tea, oolong tea, magnesium deficiency, post concussion syndrome, blablabla... these examples are just a drop in the ocean to what I have searched.

In my opinion this is primarily an EMOTIONAL disorder. What is behind all this googling? This endless searching? Keep an open mind to all options, and by all means take that next supplement but dont put all your hope into it and have to find 20 different peer reviewed journals to back up your decision. Because for me, none of them EVER did a thing. And the list would be as long as I am tall.. literally. Longer if I counted different diets and fads like starving myself.. sorry 'fasting'. I don't have much solid advice as nobody does, but I have been noticing some changes by focusing the belly/chest with a soft and easy, effortless attention. Negative emotions keep coming up, be kind don't try to 'get rid of them' as this is a form of self denial, just give them an gentle attention and almost listen to see if they have anything to say. I've been doing this with some good results

Anyway I'm rambling. All I'm saying is, don't put all your eggs in one basket. There aren't a lot of 'this supplement cured me' posts... there are quite a number that advise to 'let go'.. and I think that is what they are pointing to


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## seven

I tested my blood copper levels and there were fine


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## jessie1133

The web page doesn't work anymore?


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## nickcb96

Autonomic Space Monkey said:


> Hey, what happened to your article, it's no longer available via that link?
> 
> Maybe edit the OP & paste it into there?


I was just thinking the same thing lol


----------



## krystasmommy

To everyone that thinks that this is about consuming zinc lol , this is very ignorant . I don't mean that in a rude way, but honestly you don't know what you're saying. It's not about consuming too much. It's about the body under stress starts to store it in tissues such as hair and then the brain and that's when it becomes toxic. The body's actually deficient in it because it starts to store it in places that ISNT needed. That's how we become both deficient AND toxic. This is VERY legit and PROVEN. It's actually in psychology today. The point is, dp dr is a way the brain is trying to protect us because there's a DYSBIOSIS in the body, hence brain as well. We have a stress bucket, which consists of diet, emotional, etc etc and we each got this way for different reasons and now we have to figure out how to get out. I have high amounts of copper but it's not because I drank out of a copper cup lol or because I consumed too much, it's beause the body starts to store it . Look up copper shell. It happens under emotional stress. This may save your life. 1. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/holistic-psychiatry/201709/copper-toxicity-common-cause-psychiatric-symptoms%3famp 2. https://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm


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## Jackk11

I know this thread is two years old but I’m curious about this because one of the symptoms of copper toxicity is calcium spurs and the results of my blood work showed high calcium


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## Manitsover

Could you provide some more info on what supplement or brand you were using exactly? And perhaps dosing? What were your timings for taking it?

I am thinking about starting a zinc supplement regiment soon.


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## Chip1021

Come back, zinc! Come back!


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