# Zed vs Med Squad debate



## simonlebon (Apr 13, 2015)

This is a good thread. I agree that it's possible for *some* people to possibly endure this for years or whatever and somehow finally recover without meds. For myself though, and apparently for others on this thread, the pain is too much for too long, and instead of ending it, taking a medicine is definitely a more logical and hopeful thing to try first. And for many people, fortunately the meds to end up helping at least enough to make life more bearable and maybe even get you through the rest of the dp/dr until the body has time to calm down and heal. Although for myself I don't plan on every discontinuing meds completely again because I have had very bad experiences of that and go right back into DP. I am in group therapy right now and I don't think the meds alone would be as good as the therapy along with the meds. When I went into the hospital, the doctor came in and saw me and knew that I wasn't wanting to take more meds to "hide" from a problem or just suppress issues. He said "the studies show the medication ALONG with therapy is the best way to recovery". And I believe in most cases that is true.

And for the record I am currently on Lexapro/seroquel , with a small amount of klonopin.. Although if my recovery stalls, the first thing I think I'll do is switch from Lexapro to another ssri. Personally I don't think Lexapro has done a lot for me. Seroquel seems to do the most for me.

Peace and health!


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

simonlebon said:


> This is a good thread. I agree that it's possible for *some* people to possibly endure this for years or whatever and somehow finally recover without meds. For myself though, and apparently for others on this thread, the pain is too much for too long, and instead of ending it, taking a medicine is definitely a more logical and hopeful thing to try first. And for many people, fortunately the meds to end up helping at least enough to make life more bearable and maybe even get you through the rest of the dp/dr until the body has time to calm down and heal. Although for myself I don't plan on every discontinuing meds completely again because I have had very bad experiences of that and go right back into DP. I am in group therapy right now and I don't think the meds alone would be as good as the therapy along with the meds. When I went into the hospital, the doctor came in and saw me and knew that I wasn't wanting to take more meds to "hide" from a problem or just suppress issues. He said "the studies show the medication ALONG with therapy is the best way to recovery". And I believe in most cases that is true.
> 
> And for the record I am currently on Lexapro/seroquel , with a small amount of klonopin.. Although if my recovery stalls, the first thing I think I'll do is switch from Lexapro to another ssri. Personally I don't think Lexapro has done a lot for me. Seroquel seems to do the most for me.
> 
> Peace and health!


You may be ok about taking meds for the rest of your life, but you'll find there's a LOT of ppl who would rather not. As you say, the meds are just hiding or suppressing the issues which allow the DP to continue. You also said, you've had a very bad experience when stopping meds and went right back into DP. That's a typical result of psyche medication addiction and withdrawal according to this forum..

If anyone has chronic DP, It's more logical to find a good therapist and use them as the primary treatment rather than using meds as the 'first choice' as you stated.

Meds have their place, but a lifetime of powerful psychiatric med use is not a great way to 'live' a life. Who wants to be a emotionally void zombie for the rest of their lives? There's a lot of ppl in their teens and 20's here. Don't you think they deserve a better chance at life than to live in a blur for the rest of their lives? I do.

In your pushy posts, you completely (and conveniently) ignore the possible awful toxic side effects of taking meds long term. If you don't care what you put into your body, fine, but don't expect everyone else jump in as blindly as you. Did you ever properly try any natural remedies (with little or no side effects) for your issues?

Strength and health.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

"the meds are just hiding or suppressing the issues which allow the DP to continue." You obviously have an anti med bias because you have discovered the root cause of DP and it is curable only through therapy. Right?

"You may be ok about taking meds for the rest of your life, but you'll find there's a LOT of ppl who would rather not." Actually, everyone would rather not take meds at all, never mind for the rest of their lives. However, some of us have evaluated the risk benefit equation of taking meds and through experience we have discovered that taking meds offers a better quality of life.

"That's a typical result of psyche medication addiction and withdrawal". Really? What do you know about addiction and withdrawal. lol Talk about "pushy" posts.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

forestx5 said:


> "the meds are just hiding or suppressing the issues which allow the DP to continue." You obviously have an anti med bias because you have discovered the root cause of DP and it is curable only through therapy. Right?


Nope, I was biased towards natural cures decades before I even knew I had a dissociative disorder. And everyone's biased in some way aren't they?

And absolutely I would never say DP is only curable through therapy. Therapy is one of hundreds of treatment options available, however it should be used as the primary therapy to overcome DD's. If you don't listen to what I say, fine, but at least listen to what the people (the therapists) who treat these disorders are saying. And they say time and time again "find a good therapist who knows their stuff and start working on it. That's your primary treatment."



forestx5 said:


> "You may be ok about taking meds for the rest of your life, but you'll find there's a LOT of ppl who would rather not." Actually, everyone would rather not take meds at all, never mind for the rest of their lives. However, some of us have evaluated the risk benefit equation of taking meds and through experience we have discovered that taking meds offers a better quality of life.


Yes exactly, no-one would really wants to take meds for the rest of their lives. You evaluated the risk vs benefit when you first started taking med yes? How can you possibly evaluate the risk vs benefit now? You have no idea if you're stronger now and able to cope without them. So why not start working on reducing the meds and healing from the issues that caused the DP in the first place? Put some natural medicine in it's place.

Sure meds are ok short term and they can help stabilise ones life, but why resign yourself to a lifetime of slavery to the medication? Have you tried all the harmless, natural treatments available? That's plain logical isn't it - to try the relatively harmless ways of coping first? There's a big list of them for coping with overwhelming dissociation you know... Everything I said in that post was about long term/lifetime med use because I was responding to what Simonlebon was saying - using meds for the rest of his life.



forestx5 said:


> "That's a typical result of psyche medication addiction and withdrawal". Really? What do you know about addiction and withdrawal. lol Talk about "pushy" posts.


You ought to try reading some of the posts around here. And I've been around. I'm no spring chicken you know. I've seen people around me for decades withdraw from psyche meds. Not too many pleasant stories in there I can tell you. From what I've seen, I'd say about half can't cope with the withdrawal and end up on meds for the rest of their lives.... Kudos to the ones who quit their long term med use. Like you said, who wants to take this shit for the rest of their lives? Be warned, that's what I'm saying.

What do I know about addiction?? hahaha You must be joking. I've been addicted to just about every substance known to mankind.. My knowledge about addiction isn't out of text books - it's from experience and other experts. It's a well known fact that it doesn't take long to become dependant on psyche meds and they're awful to withdraw from.


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## eddy1886 (Oct 11, 2012)

Zed will you please share with us your magic cure (without meds) for DP....We all want to know!


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

Zed said:


> If you don't listen to what I say, fine, but at least listen to what the people (the therapists) who treat these disorders are saying. And they say time and time again "find a good therapist who knows their stuff and start working on it. That's your primary treatment."


Would they be saying anything else?


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> It's a well known fact that it doesn't take long to become dependant on psyche meds and they're awful to withdraw from.


Up to today I've taken and stopped taking 12 psychotrophic medications. I never had symptoms of withdrawal, even after taking some for several months.



> Zed will you please share with us your magic cure (without meds) for DP....We all want to know!


Longterm (= several years) psychodynamic psychotherapy from a "dissociation aware" therapist - a treatment that has never been proven to be efficacious for depersonalization disorder or any other disorder and thus may be charlatanry, just like "natural remedies". It doesn't even make sense from a theoretical point of view, because it relies on assumptions (for example the existence of a trauma) that are just not true for most patients with depersonalization disorder.



> Actually, everyone would rather not take meds at all, never mind for the rest of their lives. However, some of us have evaluated the risk benefit equation of taking meds and through experience we have discovered that taking meds offers a better quality of life.


Yes, the risk benefit equation is important. We don't take medication because it's so much fun, but because it's our only hope. It's unfortunately a fact that psychotherapy doesn't work for most people with depersonalization disorder. But even despite these small chances I'm receiving psychotherapy to use every chance.



> Sure meds are ok short term and they can help stabilise ones life, but why resign yourself to a lifetime of slavery to the medication? Have you tried all the harmless, natural treatments available?


Psychotherapy is not a "harmless" treatment. Especially psychodynamic treatments with a duration of several years can produce a dependency to the therapist, or a "lifetime of slavery to the therapist", as you might call it.


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## TimMis (Mar 21, 2016)

eddy1886 said:


> Zed will you please share with us your magic cure (without meds) for DP....We all want to know!


Will you please tell us how yours "medication cure" has worked so far?


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## TimMis (Mar 21, 2016)

[quote name="TDX" post="368097" timestamp="1459260026"]
Up to today I've taken and stopped taking 12 psychotrophic medications. I never had a problem with withdrawal, even after taking some for several months.

Withdrawal has dp as a common symptom so you don't know. All the whitdrawals can keep Dp alive.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> Withdrawal has dp as a common symptom so you don't know. All the whitdrawals can keep Dp alive.


If this was true, I would have noticed fluctuations of my symptoms when I changed medications. This was *never* the case. Nothing made my symptoms worse or better. They always stayed the same.


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## TimMis (Mar 21, 2016)

TDX said:


> If this was true, I would have noticed fluctuations of my symptoms when I changed medications. This was *never* the case.


Well you don't know? I'm not against medication at all, but read the recovery stories. The recovery rate is pretty equal, meds of no meds. I'm no professor but the brain need rest and a lot of medication is no pillow for the brain.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

TimMis said:


> Will you please tell us how yours "medication cure" has worked so far?


Who are you quoting here? LOL


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## TimMis (Mar 21, 2016)

thy said:


> Who are you quoting here? LOL


Lol my phone fucks up. Eddie


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## simonlebon (Apr 13, 2015)

Zed, I am speaking from experience trying both natural and meds. I tried it your way for almost a year. I suffered immensely trying the natural, meds are evil approach. I ended up suicidal because i was so miserable. I agree the meds shouldn't be the very first thing you try, but if you get to the point of pain and suffering where death sounds better, you are narrow minded to not try the meds. 
And you are also completely side stepping genetics. Genes can play a huge factor mental illness. And guess what... you cant change your genes. Your argument against meds is like telling someone who was born with type 1 diabetes to not take insulin. This may not be every case on here, but for many of us who had parents with anxiety / depression etc, a part of this is very much genetic. And for me the "natural" approaches werent enough.


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## TimMis (Mar 21, 2016)

King Elliott said:


> Guys, do you really have to take over this thread for your debate?
> 
> There are some good points being made but this thread is intended for people who have already chosen to go down the psychiatric route. It doesn't encourage or discourage the use of medication.


Sorry dude


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

eddy1886 said:


> Zed will you please share with us your magic cure (without meds) for DP....We all want to know!


What a ridiculous thing to say! Show me where I've said (or even alluded to) "I have a magical cure or there is a magical cure at all?" I haven't even alluded to the fact there's an easy fix - because there isn't one..

Reread and comprehend what I've said before you start jumping to these stupid conclusions.



TDX said:


> Psychotherapy is not a "harmless" treatment. Especially psychodynamic treatments with a duration of several years can produce a dependency to the therapist, or a "lifetime of slavery to the therapist", as you might call it.


Sure it's real - people CAN develop a dependancy on a therapist, but it's hardly an issue worth worrying about. Any decent therapist can deal with that dependancy and it's not difficult.

'A lifetime of slavery to a therapist'.. A duration of several years is not a lifetime.



TDX said:


> Yes, the risk benefit equation is important. We don't take medication because it's so much fun, but because it's our only hope. It's unfortunately a fact that psychotherapy doesn't work for most people with depersonalization disorder. But even despite these small chances I'm receiving psychotherapy to use every chance.


You don't even know the risks with long term (= several years) med use (btw we were talking about long term use here). No-body does. There's never been a study done on long term use has there? So how can you possibly equate the risk/benefit?

If you see a talk therapist who isn't properly trained in dissociative disorders, yeah chances are it won't work. See someone who knows their stuff and is sufficiently enlightened, and the outcome's probably going to be quite different. SImple.



TDX said:


> Longterm (= several years) psychodynamic psychotherapy from a "dissociation aware" therapist - a treatment that has never been proven to be efficacious for depersonalization disorder or any other disorder and thus may be charlatanry, just like "natural remedies". It doesn't even make sense from a theoretical point of view, because it relies on assumptions (for example the existence of a trauma) that are just not true for most patients with depersonalization disorder.


"Psychodynamic psychotherapy has never been proven to be efficacious for DP or any disorder" Ohh you're kidding right?

Natural remedies - charlatanry. Again, are you joking? Natural remedies have been around for thousands of years and now all of a sudden Professor TDX is telling us all they don't work. hahahaha

It's pretty obvious you're never going to believe anything that isn't printed in peer reviewed scientific research articles - so I think I'll just wish you good luck and leave you to your own devices.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

King Elliott said:


> Guys, do you really have to take over this thread for your debate?
> 
> There are some good points being made but this thread is intended for people who have already chosen to go down the psychiatric route. It doesn't encourage or discourage the use of medication.


No worries mate... just got to clear up some ridiculous comments first.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

simonlebon said:


> I agree the meds shouldn't be the very first thing you try,


Well don't say it in the first place.

You've got to understand there're many vulnerable and confused people who visit this site and read. The last thing they need is the poor advice. Surely it makes logical sense to exhaust the relatively harmless and natural approaches to coping before launching into unknown territory with potentially dangerous medication?



simonlebon said:


> And you are also completely side stepping genetics. Genes can play a huge factor mental illness. And guess what... you cant change your genes.


No-one knows how much our individual genetic make-ups play out in developing this disorder, and even if they did, right here right now there's nothing anyone can do about that, so it's a waste of time talking about really.



simonlebon said:


> Your argument against meds is like telling someone who was born with type 1 diabetes to not take insulin.


I would never say that and I don't know why you would even accuse me of that! From what little I know about type 1 diabetes I understand it can only be managed with no chance of recovery. Dissociative disorders don't fall into that category. DD's can be recovered from.

Don't read things into what I've said.

My argument against meds is - beware because they're not harmless as many people here make out and they're not going to solve the issues that brought about dp in the first place. And that's important to understand. Try the other treatment methods first. Is that bad advice?


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

What evidence is there that therapy (excluding CBT) works for DPD?


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