# is DP/DR really just a state of mind?



## Guest (Mar 4, 2007)

I've wondered a lot, is it really just that we continue to focus on it, that it still is there?
Just like anxiety,your afraid of having another panic attack, so you get one and always feel anxious. A never ending cycle?


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

I believe (this is just my theory...could be wrong) that DP/DR is a coping or defense mechanism of the subconcious and until you are truly free of what your mind is trying to protect you from, you won't be free from DP/DR. It really is just a state of mind.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2007)

How many other disorders change a person?s ?state of mind? to where they feel unreal?

DR/DP seems under rated to me.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2007)

It's kind of like PTSD, a self mechanism, I understand it's really hard to see it as a "state of mind" after doctors have made up 5825385325823 different illnesses, many illnesses is only symptoms of something else.

Look at hypochondriacs, do they have cancer? no, do they have all the symptoms a cancer patient has? yes.

I think most of DR/DP people have a phobia, phobia of living/facing reality.
If you read, all the recovery stories are based on facing this fear, start to live without focusing on the sensations.


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

MentallyIll said:


> I think most of DR/DP people have a phobia, phobia of living/facing reality.
> If you read, all the recovery stories are based on facing this fear, start to live without focusing on the sensations.


I believe that is the truth, but maybe not the entirety of it. Speaking for myself, I used to not be able to talk on the telephone or look another person in the eye because of social phobia. I used to spend most of my day in DP-land because my psychological present-moment was too painful... _and I didn't even realize that there was anything inherently wrong in being this way._ I had generalized anxiety and social phobia since I was very young, and then due to the combination of these symptoms and what was going on around me at the time, _I developed DP/DR in early adolescence, as a coping mechanism_, as some have said. So the equation for me was: chemical condition + environmental situation = psychological condition

Once it was brought to my attention that perhaps there was more to life, then I sought help. Help (for me) was two-fold...
*Chemical*: I was on Paxil for awhile, and it did help with some symptoms, but of course had drawbacks, which is why I went off it. 
and
*Psychological*: I was in counseling/therapy for years. This is where I made my greatest gains, talking out and deconstructing all the mental bullsh*t that was only perpetuating any latent mental condition like DP, OCD, or Anxiety/Phobias. I still feel the physical symptoms of anxiety and fear, but I've learned how to cope so as to not let it trigger the DP immediately. I at least have some control, although recently it has been worse for me.

And so I think that to say that DP/DR is a state of mind only is not quite all of the truth. There is the chemical aspect... I mean if there is some imbalance in your brain, then no amount of therapy is going to help that. Then there is the psychological, in which a person has to clearly discriminate between what environmental factors (i.e. past trauma) contributed to the disorder, and what conditions of that disorder are self-repeating: like the example of the fear of having a panic attack leads to more panic attacks, which leads to more fear, etc.

_~T_


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

MentallyIll said:


> It's kind of like PTSD, a self mechanism, I understand it's really hard to see it as a "state of mind" after doctors have made up 5825385325823 different illnesses, many illnesses is only symptoms of something else.
> 
> Look at hypochondriacs, do they have cancer? no, do they have all the symptoms a cancer patient has? yes.
> 
> ...


I think dr/dp for the most part is not just phobia of living/facing reality. but a lack of reality or connection to it. Or atleast... that's what it turns into.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

Depersonalization and derealization are temporary states of mind.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> Depersonalization and derealization are temporary states of mind.


For some; yes? for others;? no?

I?ve had chronic DR/DP all my life, DR/DP ?is? my state of mind.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

Darren said:


> For some; yes? for others;? no?
> 
> I?ve had chronic DR/DP all my life, DR/DP ?is? my state of mind.


Thats the spirit


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2007)

:? oh yeah i love 24/7 DR/DP.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2007)

Darren no one is trying to mock you, or making you feel bad.
I'm just "pushing" it on you, so you can make up your own mind, determine that you'll get rid of it, get rid of it, and move on, OR chose to stay with it.
It's like being in a bad marriage, you can get up and move on, it'll be hard and weird in the beginning, but it'll be worth it later, or you can stay in the crappy marriage and let it make your life crappy.

Divorce anxiety


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## jeanie82 (Nov 6, 2006)

I'm completely ready to let go of DP. Sometimes I even think I have. But then why do I still have blunt emotions, no memory and songs stuck in my head constantly. These things feel completely beyond my control, they are not a state of mind, they are the result of something not working properly in my mind.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2007)

OCD.

As for the blunt emotions, I have that too, still working on that, may be from overloading your brain too much, like Post Traumatic Stress


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

Darren said:


> :? oh yeah i love 24/7 DR/DP.


I'm not trying to be rude or thick man, but honestly you seem pretty content with having DP. When I first got it I was hopeless for 2 weeks, then I decided to feel better. Every day is better and soon the whole thing will be a thing of the past. I am sure you can get rid of it too!


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> > :? oh yeah i love 24/7 DR/DP.
> ...


Not trying to speak for Darren or anything but that might have something to do with the fact that he's been DP'ed as long as he can remember. To him, that IS reality. He hasn't really experienced "normal" reality. 
Sorry, Darren, once again: I don't mean to speak for you. Just my take on things.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

How can you experience anything without relativity?


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## Lynch_mob (Jan 10, 2007)

Indeed. I used to have the same social phobia. I was unable to have a telephone conversation because of it. I still have troubles i'm just slowly choosing to look past i guess..

But the thing is people say they have all these social phobias but no one really explains to me EXACTLY what is happening during that phobia dp attack.

I belive we all have different levels of it, we're all stuck on a certain level in our mind. A different state. Once we're able to "look outside the box" and look in and see all the states at once we're able to understand more.

I don't know... this whole DP/DR thing is fucked. Its like your mind questions everything and you already know the answer before you even ask the question. THIS IS FUCKED. I'm just unable to retain the answer for whatever reason.

Does anyone else feel like they're mind immideatly "banishes" any information you feel is important making it impossible to remember? It's like i don't want myself to get better, my mind is not allowing it.


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Ludovico said:


> How can you experience anything without relativity?


Like I said, I can't speak for Darren but from what I know, he only found out he was experiencing DP because he went to a doctor about "brain fog" and was diagnosed. I'm not sure about the details. He'd have to pipe in on that.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> Ludovico said:
> 
> 
> > Darren said:
> ...


Thank you. It?s nice to know some one is willing to stand up for me =)


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> Ludovico said:
> 
> 
> > How can you experience anything without relativity?
> ...


You have an excellect memory, I can?t remember much of anything know a days.

Yes I went to the doctors complaining I felt dizzy? and with me going back around ten times the Doc assumed it could either be DR/DP or TLE? I?ve had a EEG scan which shows I don?t have TLE? so? humm


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Darren said:


> invisible.ink said:
> 
> 
> > Ludovico said:
> ...


LOL. I just remember you mentioning something about that in another thread. Don't know which one.


Darren said:


> Thank you. It?s nice to know some one is willing to stand up for me =)


No problemo.


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## Ludovico (Feb 9, 2007)

So Darren, you've never experienced anything without DP?


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

Lynch_mob said:


> But the thing is people say they have all these social phobias but no one really explains to me EXACTLY what is happening during that phobia dp attack.


Allow me.

Social phobia has been with me since the outset. It is one of the big reasons why I have no friends and my relationships crumble. Without exaggeration, I have no one outside of my immediate family, and it's not like I live in a cave. I'm afraid and uncertain around other people; even loved ones, sometimes.

The experience of social phobia is, by definition, the fear of being negatively evaluated by others in a social situation. Fear of judgment. 
For me, that is the damn honest truth. 
Take right now for example, I am writing this post to you all. But right there on the edges of consciousness is the lingering social-phobic reminder that you must be judging my words, looking for flaws in my grammar or vocabulary; picking apart my rationale for inconsistencies; and secretly just humoring me by replying to anything that I actually say. *No one here actually values what I have to say, or likes me for who I am*. >>> This idea seems to be one of the central assumptions of a social-phobic mind. And so of course, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as I engage in all the anti-social behavior which is designed, on some level, to keep me safe. It ends up pushing me farther away.

When I meet other people, in unfamiliar places especially, social phobia feels like this:
- A wave of anxious nausea churns in my stomach.
- My heart races, I sweat and get flushed in the face.
- My mind starts fluttering through thoughts.
- I stammer and stutter if I try to speak.
- My posture often assumes a cowering, uncomfortable position.
- Scenarios of failure and humiliation appear in my mind in rapid-fire succession.
- I question the other person's intention and sincerity. I feel like they are just playing along, and not being genuine. Paranoia firmly takes hold.
- I can't concentrate on what is being said, and I often have to ask the person to repeat themselves, thereby contributing to all the above symptoms. 
- DP/DR starts to kick in as the anxiety grows to larger proportions. I start to lose touch with the situation and usually have to break off the encounter, or otherwise get myself physically away from people to collect myself again.

That's my social phobia equation in a nutshell. It used to be this way nearly all the time. But I've gotten better, with some medication, increased practice in social skills and just basic exposure to other people. Day to day, I can manage, but it is obviously still there, nagging me.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Everything is just a mind state. Everything we know is all in our heads. Infact life is just a projection from outside absorption. Reality is all just thoughts in our head. Think of what it was like to be a baby. Clueless. As you got older the idea of reality was built into our heads.. even the essential of who "you" are. think of evolution, it all started from one life form. Eventually as humans started to come to life, they were clueless too, as in what it means to be "human", culture was developed, language from sounds, societies were formed, and so on

everything seems to be pinpointed towards survival

now it seems we reach a stage where even survival itself is being questioned

hehe, just some philosophy on the deeper waters of dp that alot of us go through, this definately can be viewed without dp although, dpers just tend to sit on the idea of what reality is. which, for all we know, could be alot crazier and far out there than we as the human race, think it is (which seems to be the case :wink then of course maybe my imagination just runs wild

moral of the story: who cares, we're all gonna die one day


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

turnIntoearth said:


> Lynch_mob said:
> 
> 
> > But the thing is people say they have all these social phobias but no one really explains to me EXACTLY what is happening during that phobia dp attack.
> ...


i to had social phobia when i was younger, i feared social situations, utterly feared, but guess what... i beat it.. wanna know how? forcing myself to be in social situations... then i realised... there's nothing to be afraid of

edit: well i must say, i beat social phobia before i had dp :/ so... might be different for you


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

?real?ity? said:


> Everything is just a mind state. Everything we know is all in our heads... just some philosophy on the deeper waters of dp that alot of us go through


If we're going to go there, try this one on for size:
-Mind states are an illusion.
-Mind is an illusion.
-YOU are an illusion.

If you are perhaps familiar with the Hindu cosmology, it refers to the all-incorporating Universal Mind as Brahman. Certain schools of thought go on to assert that even Brahman is an illusion. The true nature of the universe is not something that anyone can explain in words, or even fully comprehend in thoughts. The closest that you really can get is to understand everything that the true nature of the universe is _NOT_.
_
...oh my, head's out in space again..._
_~T_


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

Or is! 

yes, i'm aware of the universal mind and such

life just seems to be 1 big massive fucking mystery... are we here to crack it?

is this what the game of life is about? hehe


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

?real?ity? said:


> Or is!
> 
> yes, i'm aware of the universal mind and such
> 
> ...


Hmmm....our purpose in life is to figure out the purpose of life...interesting.
What if God doesn't know the purpose of Himself and we are His grand experiment to figure that out?


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> > Or is!
> ...


it seems plausible to me. but then again just because it seems right does it make it right? think of it this way. no one knows why were here. no one knows why reality is the way it is. no one knows what hold these laws of phsyics together, or why they are. reality... just is. that is the mystery in which we live in.

enough thinking for me tonight din din then bedtime


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

?real?ity? said:


> reality... just is. that is the mystery in which we live in.


I see all of what you mean. Yet this is where I have to differ. I personally don't think that reality just is. Reality was invented by consciousness. The mystery in which we live and the meaning of life are fabricated burdens on our minds.

The problem is that we are talking in concepts. All our thoughts, all our actions, and even the deepest philosophy is still just dealing in concepts. And the realm of pure spirituality is not conceptual in nature. _*It is not within our power to properly understand it, because we think in concepts.*_ All we can do is see and acknowledge it.

OK, that's my 2 cents. I'm not looking for converts... just offering my perspective, which I think has in fact been significantly influenced by the DP experience.


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## ?real?ity? (Feb 18, 2007)

turnIntoearth said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> > reality... just is. that is the mystery in which we live in.
> ...





turnIntoearth said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> > reality... just is. that is the mystery in which we live in.
> ...


Well, yes I agree with this, but in order to have a conversation about it.. i have to talk about it in concepts 

You know, science doesn't lie, if i were to light you on fire, you would burn to death (unless you put it out), there's a science behind it, it can be studied, and put into a concept (the fire starts, it uses it's surroundings as fuel, oxygen, burns matter ect) edit: i just realised this was a pretty gruesom example sorry 

think of it this way, if everything is just a fabrication of our minds, then that's a reality in itself, that projection your brain gives, is that of the general idea of the "physical plane" or it tries to be accurate anyway. i don't know if you read my other post about evolution, it kind of intertwines. that is all a concept of itself.

what i see you getting at is ego death. the ego is essential to experience... without the ego, you are purely in the moment, and free of an "i". there must be something as an experiencer, to even begin to acknowledge in the first place.

by me saying "reality just is" i literally mean just that. it just is... without the justice of adding concepts to it. so we are not totally on a different level.

of course, not trying to act like a know it all, or that my opinions are correct, i'm still in my teens, i've just eaten a little to many mushrooms, i have a lot of growing to do


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

First of all I think there are parallel, similar conversations going on here, between the *nihilism* thread and this one. Perhaps we should corral it all into one place.

Yes, I think we understand each other.
When you said:


> by me saying "reality just is" i literally mean just that. it just is... without the justice of adding concepts to it. so we are not totally on a different level.


That's it right there, not a different level at all. Pure reality, stripped of all concepts. I suppose it all comes down to the picture in your mind when you think of "reality". Everyone is going to have a different mental picture. But the concept of concept-less-ness is essentially the same here


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

turnIntoearth said:


> First of all I think there are parallel, similar conversations going on here, between the *nihilism* thread and this one. Perhaps we should corral it all into one place.
> 
> Yes, I think we understand each other.
> When you said:
> ...


Being that humans naturally think in terms of concepts, I don't think we are capable of imagining concept-less-ness much in the same way we are unable to comprehend non-existence because we exist.


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## turnIntoearth (Feb 26, 2007)

invisible.ink said:


> Being that humans naturally think in terms of concepts, I don't think we are capable of imagining concept-less-ness much in the same way we are unable to comprehend non-existence because we exist.


I agree. I think there is a difference there.

I can imagine not existing. It seems like it's pretty much the direct opposite of existence as I currently experience it. If existence is a raucous noise, then I can think of a profound silence.

Trying to imagine _no concepts_ is inherently impossible, yet there is something about it... just not able to be uttered, you know?


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