# ANYONE BELIEVE IN AN AFTERLIFE?



## Guest

Just thought I'd put this question out there as it has been one of my thoughts/obsessions of late.

Anyone have any freaky stories - besides John Edwards?
:lol:


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## Martinelv

No.

I can't think of anything worse than eternity. I pray to the god that doesn't exist that there isn't an afterlife.


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## alix

I'm with Martin on this one.. the idea of 'nothing' scares me beyond all measure but I think that the idea of infinity and another life after this is even worse, just going on and on and on... brrrr. I hate both ideas but that one is definately worse.


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## Martinelv

Give me the cold, dark less than nothingness anyday.


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## jc

this is the first time ive visited this section...and i now know why i never visit


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## gizmo

i believe with all my heart that there is an afterlife. i believe there is a heaven and a hell.


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## Blake

i feel like dp has given me a glimpse as to what eternity feels like.

one of my symptoms ( i dont know if you guys get this or not ) is that i have no sense of time. i never think ... oh that was quick...or that took way long...or 3 hours have passed. theres just no sense of time passing.

but to answer, i would say i believe in a Higher Power...not necessarily a christian or buddhist or hindu god...just something that is greater than i am exists...


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## ThirdEye

YEP


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## bat

used to be scared of death, sometimes am still and wanted there to be something after. but in my initial full blown dp period i believed that if i died then i would stay in that state for ever.hell. this is the main rason i think i lived to tell the tale as i felt there was no escape. many years on, with alot of dp free times under my belt, i still get that fear of dp forever but only on rare dp occasions. the thought of forever with no escape scares the hell out of me. so really i've come recently to the conclusion that dp is a chemical imbalance in the brain and when the brain dies it does too. anyway forever is too long for anything


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## gizmo

i believe that i am going to heaven when i die because i have accepted the sacrifice Jesus paid for my sins.i know this life is so short compared to eternity and that keeps me going because however bad this life can be, i know in heaven there will be no pain, no tears, NO DP ever again!!!Jesus has paid for every person's sins, but only those who will receive the gift of eternal life will have it.


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## bat

i like that gizmo


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## Guest

jc said:


> this is the first time ive visited this section...and i now know why i never visit


my sentiments exactly


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## Guest

jc said:


> this is the first time ive visited this section...and i now know why i never visit


my sentiments exactly


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## Guest

i second gizo! Jesus is the savior of all that accept him in there lives and live by his word.


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## Guest

i second gizo! Jesus is the savior of all that accept him in there lives and live by his word.


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## Phill

I, like Gizmo and lostvisionlostfeeling have the wonderful assurance of the next life in heaven forever with the Lord Jesus. I also pray that others in this forum will receive divine revelation and come to have the same assurance we do. No sickness, no pain, NO DP/DR, eternal bliss forever. 
I can't wait!!!


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## Guest

Deleted


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## Guest

I also pray that there is not an afterlife. I wouldn't mind being reincarnated (highly skeptical of this) as someone with a functional brain. Eternity doesn't necessarily scare me, as long as i'm no longer myself anymore. Being ziggomatix got old a long fucking time ago. I love everyone's attitude in this forum. It dark, nihilistic and depressed just like mine. Hooray!


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## Guest

My soul has left my body more than once. So I know there is a soul.

As far as the afterlife, this is the closest I've gotten:

Once I had a lucid dream and I asked God to show me the afterlife/ other side. I thought I would feel my soul pulled out of my body, but instead I felt it pulled in. Then I saw the back of my eyes, then I saw my bloodstream, then I saw the inside of one of my cells, and then it was like I was being pushed through a pane of glass and I saw... the world looking exactly as it does now but calmer and cleaner.

You could read:

_We Don't Die_ by George Anderson

and

_Soul Mates_ by Jess Stearn


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## Depersonalized

I am not sure about an afterlife(maybe this life is an afterlife), but there is no such thing as death in this world, nothing dissapears into nothingness. There is transformation but not death. I know that our conciousness is a product of all brain functions, but it can not die. Its like fire, always exists but in order to see it you need wood and heat.


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## Guest

I believe that we go to heaven or hell, depending if we know Jesus or not.


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## Martinelv

Do people still actually believe that ? Really, I'm curious.


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## Guest

Looks like we'll be roommates in hell Martin.

Does hell have a mcdonalds? I don't think I could go an eternity without a big mac.


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## Guest

Yes, I do, maybe i am the only one? If so, I am glad to be crazy by myself, but i have a huge feeling, I am not the only one.

-Robbie


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## Guest

It's all in your head

As steven wilson sais "the brainwashed don't know they are brainwashed"


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## Guest

i dont care if there is an afterlife or if there is a heaven or hell, why should i care whats it to me


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## Guest

wow Neal....You just told me that you believe in Jesus as well, that he is the only way. And now you are changing your mind?


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## Guest

Oh! Just forgot, I meet in a place every sunday morning with about 300 people that believe in heaven and hell also! Yay! I am not only crazy by myself, I am crazy with others! whewww! that was close. Thank God for my handy dandy memory


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## Guest




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## Guest

I said I believed in Jesus. I didn't say that believing in him or not was the difference between heaven and hell. That's a man made philosophy as is christianity and every other religion. However, I don't expect any christian, muslim, jew or whatever belief to reverse their faith at all. Once you've been brainwashed then it's extremely hard if not impossible to reverse. And like I said, the brainwashed don't know they are brainwashed. It's so embedded into you that you are probably telling God to have mercy on my soul this very minute as I am a sinner and I am damned. Don't worry, that's what I expect out of all of you and anything you tell me I am completely numb to. I have been told I am going to hell 1 million times and if you tell it to me again it won't penetrate into my thoughts or psyche one bit. I am not phased anymore and it's liberating!


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## Guest

i have never told you that you are going to hell, and never would as i am not the one who is judging.


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## Guest

as a curious thought though, you say you believe in Jesus as who? Just a good man, or son of the living God?


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## Guest

Its your head though :wink:


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## Guest

'Also, you are the one who is downing my faith, and telling me that "its all in my head, and i am brainwashed". I never once said anything to you as far as your faith, just that i thought you believed in Jesus, which you clarified i was right in saying so. You think i think like you , and i dont. I am not thinking you are damned to hell right now, Like you are thinking i am brain washed.


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## Guest

I think you are a lovable guy that has a good heart. And can offer kind friendship among other things.


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## grandma-stole-my-wheels

Does anyone want to talk about the 1980's and nachos?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay?

I have a beak.


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## Guest

Remember our conversation on the phone "Imagine an eternity of akathisia." I think that really opened my eyes on this topic. I refuse to believe in a god who sends people to an eternity of that based on whether or not they believe in Jesus.

If that is indeed true then there would be no choice. If we had proof that this philosophy existed then we would practically be forced to worship a god Or jesus. That's a bit similar to rape in my opinion. "Do this or have it stuck up your hiney mister." That belief is not valid at all.


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## Guest

I remember that conversation well man. I am glad we had it. I am not forcing religion down your throat at all. I simply replied to the post that asked peoples beliefs and opinions on a afterlife. Then you came at me with negative remarks about my faith. I simply said "i believe you go to heaven or hell, depending on if you know Jesus".... i was not derogatory, nor selfish in what i said, and totally did not deserve attacks.


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## Guest

also, you never answered my questions for you , above.


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## Guest

I wasn't attacking you personally. I was attacking the christian ideas that you believe in. And the statement about brainwashing is a fact.


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## Guest

essentially you are attacking me...."You are brainwashed" not "they" as in christians...you have a bone to pick with me for some reason...


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## Guest

we should never attack ones faith...i dont attack buddists and hinduists,,(sp?) ect..


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## Guest

My apologies for making it sound personal. That never my intention. Now if you could excuse me, I am in withdrawal still and I must got lay down. I suppose I better get used to this as I am damned to spend an eternity with it.


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## Guest

hey man , you said you believe in Jesus, so who do you think he is by chance? Could it be you believe he was just a great guy that lived 2000 years ago? or do you belive that he is the son of God?


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## Guest

And one last thing. If one is allowed to attack the issue of rape, abortion, politics etc...then why shouldn't one be allowed to attack a belief of people spending an eternity suffering?

I will answer your question when you can explain to me how a god as loving as yours would send even the good people to an eternity with akathisia?


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## Guest

attack my belief in the one true God and savior of the world Jesus Christ...i will gladly take the verbal whips and punches as well as physical.


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## Guest

just for you, i will explain ,.....but i have a feeling you will rebut this as well....

When God created the world, he created us to not die and to live happy forever....then the fallen angel tempted mankind into sin(lack of God) and so God made a way to pay for sin....and it was by a sacrifice of a lamb or various species... blood had to be shed for the forgiveness of sins....

then God sent the world his only son to die on the cross as his own sacrifice for ALL of our sins,,,,so his blood was shed on mount calvary to pay for all our sins....it is our fault for sin..not Gods


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## Guest

now we dont have to sacrifice animals and shed the blood , cause he did it once and for all...so that we can go back to live with him forever like he planned in the first place...and there will be no more fallen angel to tempt us anymore as he will be thrown in the lake of fire forever...


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## Guest

You really believe all that don't you?

Personally, the 'good book' left my a shaking mess when I, aged 13 - 14 looked up masterbation.

I don't actually know what I believe in, but, according to the bible, pretty much everyone is doomed for an eternal Hibachi.


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## Guest

mr mole....what bible did you read? Jesus paid for all our sins...all you have to do is accept it ..... he paid our debt....where in the bible does it say that we are all doomed for hell? only if we dont accept the payment of our debt....but i gladly accept it, what about you'?


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## Guest

the blood of Jesus covers all sin that we commit....


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## Guest

robbie said:


> the blood of Jesus covers all sin that we commit....


I don't get it!! What has the blood of Jesus to do with anything?

Let's say, all this was true, why does it have to be this way? I literally do not understand: (My understanding may be a little wrong here), but, if this 'God' is so brilliant, why did he create something that would mean sending down his son to die?! And how is your son getting nailed to some wood supposed to forgive sin?! :? Sorry if this seems insensitive, but in this aspect religion lives me actually shaking with rage.


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## Guest

if you read above, i stated that in order to cleanse sin before Jesus, you had to kill a animal, usually a lamb for a sacrifice....so God took it upon himself to sacrifice his son for all our sins, so we are debt free.....


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## Guest

if Jesus' sacrifice was meant ot abolish the animal sacrifices, why wasn't he a vegetarian?


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## AHuseman

Not to jump in, but there are questions we won't understand until we get to Heaven.


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## Martinelv

> we should never attack ones faith...i dont attack buddists and hinduists,,(sp?) ect..


Ooooh....no way Jose.


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## Guest

robbie said:


> if you read above, i stated that in order to cleanse sin before Jesus, you had to kill a animal, usually a lamb for a sacrifice....so God took it upon himself to sacrifice his son for all our sins, so we are debt free.....


So, again: What has slautering a perfectly innocent sentient being, got to do with me being 'forgiven'?

I'm not getting angry with you - I literally don't understand. And it infuriates me that everything to do with christianity basically seems to be doom and gloom.


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## Martinelv

Absolutely Mr Mole. The Bile..sorry, Bible should have an 18 certificate on it. It's certainly not suitable reading for minors. At recent estimates, 78% of the bible is concerned with death, violence, vengence, rape, slaugher, exile and the murder of innocents. But of course, we should only take the nasty bits in 'historical' context, and concetrate on the nice stuff.


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## Guest

> 78% of the bible is concerned with death, violence, vengence, rape, slaugher, exile and the murder of innocents.


So at least the Bible is realistic.


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## Guest

> 78% of the bible is concerned with death, violence, vengence, rape, slaugher, exile and the murder of innocents


Shoot, I don't need the Bible for that. I'll just turn on CNN.

Getting back to the topic of the afterlife. I find the problem with many people is that they are way too focused on this. Too focused to the point where they pretty much write off this life for the afterlife. The point that people are missing here is that the higher power(just pretend you believe in him, martin) didn't just put us here so we could spend our entire lifetime waiting for heaven. He put us here to enjoy this damn experience to the best of our ability. If heaven is so guranteed then there is no reason to even think about it. It's guranteed so enjoy every damn moment you have here and work with your potential to make this life great for you and others.

And doesn't the bible say "Do not worry about tomorrow for tomorrow has plenty of worries of it's own." Therefore you are all being commanded not to think of tomorrow and heaven is tomorrow for most. Enjoy your damn lives for god sakes and stop telling me this life doesn't matter.


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## Guest

yeah i agree with pure narcotic....i am guilty of just caring of the afterlife....but it is just that heaven has no benzo withdrawal...no rape, no hurt , nothing.....bible says there will be no tears..

I cant wait!


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## Guest

Of course those in pain are the exception Robbie. You are not really living when in pain, so death seems like a viable alternative. I often think about death too as I am in the same situation. I am sure your thinking will change as you get better. I know how much you love this life and that once you are well that you will cherish every moment of it.


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## Guest

Pure Narcotic said:


> 78% of the bible is concerned with death, violence, vengence, rape, slaugher, exile and the murder of innocents
> 
> 
> 
> Shoot, I don't need the Bible for that. I'll just turn on CNN.
> 
> Getting back to the topic of the afterlife. I find the problem with many people is that they are way too focused on this. Too focused to the point where they pretty much write off this life for the afterlife. The point that people are missing here is that the higher power(just pretend you believe in him, martin) didn't just put us here so we could spend our entire lifetime waiting for heaven. He put us here to enjoy this damn experience to the best of our ability. If heaven is so guranteed then there is no reason to even think about it. It's guranteed so enjoy every damn moment you have here and work with your potential to make this life great for you and others.
> 
> And doesn't the bible say "Do not worry about tomorrow for tomorrow has plenty of worries of it's own." Therefore you are all being commanded not to think of tomorrow and heaven is tomorrow for most. Enjoy your damn lives for god sakes and stop telling me this life doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

I can quite happily try and live to those ideals, with or without a 'god' concept


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## Sojourner

Way back in March, Pure Narcotic wrote:

"Remember our conversation on the phone "Imagine an eternity of akathisia." I think that really opened my eyes on this topic. I refuse to believe in a god who sends people to an eternity of that based on whether or not they believe in Jesus."

But that is NOT true. Please read my post of a few minutes ago to Martin.

You may find it impossible to believe this right now, but God perfectly understands your heart and how you feel about him. You have believed false statements from people who were just masquerading as Christians. Listen to Robbie and the others.

You are not doomed to Hell because you don't believe. If you seek the truth of your existence, God honors that and does not condemn you. He understands that idiots like the people who told you that you were going to hell are that -- IDIOTS. They do more harm than anything.

Sojourner


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## Martinelv

Not according to *most* religious scripture. Almost every other word is hell, hell, hell, hell. One of the fundamental parts of most religions is: "Believe in me or go to hell." But if you want to make up your own religion as you would like it, then fine.

All this 'we were wrong after all, there is no hell' smells a bit whiffy to me. A bit like a recritment drive to get the screaming hoards back into the churches. It's not working though. People aren't as easily fooled as that.


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## Universal

I believe the children are our future. Teach em well and, let em lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess in si-ide....

lol no really I do believe in an afterlife, I believe in reincarnation actually, sounds pretty sound to me. You don't die, your essence just becomes reborn into another body in another place, makes sense cause universal energy is never destroyed, just takes on another form as time goes by.


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## Guest

I forget who posted it, but it was on the 1st page...and I can sort of agree with him here.

in one of my anxiety attacks, I swear that my brain tapped into something...along these lines:

we are all just parts of the same energy, and have a different perspective on that energy based on where we tapped into it.
we aren't going to "die", but we certainly won't be going to heaven to hang out with grandma and grandpa and play frisbee with fluffy.

our brains die, and our energy returns to the...collective?

p.s.
jesus never lived, so his supposed absolution of ours sins is neither here nor there.
jesus was a fictional character made up by a bunch of guys based on previous deitys like Horus, Krishna and Buddha.
if not, please point to ONE SINGLE historical account of his being alive.
aside from the bible...which is NOT a historical document.


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## rainboteers

Nataskaos,
That is kind of what I believe as well. We return home. This is just a short visit to boot camp to learn and then we go home. We are all a part of God, the experiencing part. It all fits together for me.


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## Guest

rainboteers said:


> Nataskaos,
> That is kind of what I believe as well. We return home. This is just a short visit to boot camp to learn and then we go home. We are all a part of God, the experiencing part. It all fits together for me.


yeah..something along those lines.
but the only reason I don't throw the word "god" in there, not that there is anything wrong with that per se, is that when you say God, people put a personality and a face on said "God".
Which is sort of contrary to my beliefs, because there is no old man in the clouds that looks down on us to judge right from wrong.
We just ARE.
not because of anything...but just because.


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## Sojourner

Martin wrote: "Not according to most religious scripture. Almost every other word is hell, hell, hell, hell. One of the fundamental parts of most religions is: "Believe in me or go to hell." But if you want to make up your own religion as you would like it, then fine."

I am telling you Catholic Church teaching from Vatican II. I don't think you are as aware of what Christians believe as you think you are. The Bible needs to be read and understood in the context of the history.

This is the pertinent paragraph from "Lumen Gentium" ("The Light of the World")

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_coun ... um_en.html

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From "Lumen Gentium":

16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature",(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.

--------


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## rainboteers

I do believe in God, but not in the judging old man context. More like a form of energy that is purely love and can take shape if it wants. I believe God cannot be judging that is a human quality and something to we have to deal with here, but not on the other side.


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## Martinelv

> The Bible needs to be read and understood in the context of the history


Isn't this just the ultimate of ultimate cop-outs. Once, the bible used to be the word of god. Now, because people are starting to grimace at the improbability and grotesqeties of it, we now must only take it in 'Historical Context'. Phew. In other words, it's like someone standing up after farting and saying 'Sorry, didn't mean it.'

Tell me, which bits are we to take in 'context' ? The nice bits only ? And who, may I ask, decides this?


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## Sojourner

Recommended: _Foundations of Christian Faith_ by Karl Rahner, S.J.

More information here: http://users.adelphia.net/~markfischer/Rahner000.htm


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## Guest

Sojourner said:


> Recommended: _Foundations of Christian Faith_ by Karl Rahner, S.J.
> 
> More information here: http://users.adelphia.net/~markfischer/Rahner000.htm


Rahner operates off of the assumption that Jesus Christ did indeed exist. Unfortunately for him, there is boat loads of evidence suggesting that Christ was never even born, and if in fact he did exist (though there are absolutely NO historical documents supporting that claim), then the powers put upon him were all made up.

The story of someone like Christ has existed for thousands of years in dozens of different variations. But it all comes back to 12, the number of months in the year, and the signs of the zodiac. All of these deities were the "light and life bringer". Most were depected with a halo. All of the major deities died, then were resurrected 3 days later...so on.
We're all worshipping the sun. We've just evolved the story, thanks to power hungry, control freak church people, to a point where our modern day mythology has taken on a life of it's own.
The romans did it.
The greeks did it.
The egyptians did it.
it makes too much sense not to do it.


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## mcsiegs

I believe the following:

1. Reincarnation of energy (we ARE energy). "Energy cannot be created or destroyed, just dissplaced".

2. I believe in Jesus Christ, God, and the holy spirit as one.

3. Creationism and evolution can work together. God created some form of life and an environment for that life. Jesus created love. Environment, life, and love have evolved over time.

4. God is, and always will remain mysterious. This is why I believe so many different ways to die exist. For example, someone may say "If there is a God, why is there so much disease out there that make people suffer". That is the mystery! If EVERYONE in the world has always died from a heart attack at the same age, these patterns would give away the mysetry. It would be easy to say "This is much more than coincidence. Our lives and deaths are laid out by a higher power". God remains silent. God gives us freedom, which is the best gift of all.

I know we all have different beliefs. No matter what your belief, I respect you.


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## Homeskooled

Dear Sojourner, 
Bravo! You are very well read in Catholic theology....good for you. I haven't used any Vatican II source documents in my arguments yet, but I am also Catholic. Father Rahner's books are excellent. Lumen Gentiam is an excellent source to quote, and yes, Martin, Sojourner is quite right. Like I said in a previous "debate", the search for truth is far more important than clawing at the air to hold on to our beliefs. Its better to be wrong for the right reasons, than right for the wrong. I think its a shame that the second Vatican Council has been so maligned by conservatives and liberals alike. I think its writers were very wise indeed. Martin, please dont just skim over that quotation.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Martinelv

> "debate"


See what I mean? I'm not a sensitive man, usually, but stop being so bloody patronising. I know it's second nature for the religious, they can't help it, but please try.

Homeskooled thought....'Our discussions were not worthy of the word debate, since I am enlightened to the truth, but, sigh, I pity the poor atheist so shall use the word, but put it in quotation marks.'


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## Homeskooled

Dude, 
I really get under your skin, dont I? Chill. I was going to write "arguments". Since we dont seem to achieve much, and they are kind of no-holds-barred, I dont think we can call them debates. And yes, I am enlightened. What you gonna do about it, huh? :wink:

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Martinelv

Yes, sometimes you do.  Sometimes. But better you under my skin that what is there at the moment. What am I going to do about it ? I am going to reprogram Sebastians Killer Olives and send them in your direction.


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## bright23

"And yes, I am enlightened."

That's a pretty arrogant claim to make.

So what's it like to be so spiritually advanced?

What can you bring to the table that us rather unenlightened beings are lacking?


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## CaroleDaBoyz

I'm an atheist/buddhist/humanist - (BTW, Blake et al, Buddhism has NO god) and no I don't believe in an "afterlife" - at least for people.

But I do believe that animal spirits live in the Elysian Fields. Last October, I lost the most precious soulmate I've ever had in my life, my beloved Hadjimon. A couple weeks later I was in an animal shelter - with absolutely no intentions of adopting another cat - and suddenly I saw a little kitten, and forces beyond my control made me pick him up immediately and adopt him.

Trying to understand it later that day, I realized it was the Hadjimon that guided me. I was fighting off a recurrence of DP (I was DP'd for 5 years after losing one of my other cats), and was close to becoming DP'd again after losing Hadji. Che, the new cat, is very much "his own cat", but the spirit of Hadjimon communicates with me through him. Sometimes when I'm holding Che I can feel the spiritual shift, and for a few moments Hadji is with me again.

Hadji watches over me - no doubt about it. Late last year I started a cat welfare society and recently raised a litter of four orphan kittens that came to me when they were four days old (two were so small that they really shouldn't have survived). I was totally inexperienced in raising orphan kittens, but I asked the Hadjimon to help the kittens if he could and to watch over them for me. That was five months ago. They all survived, and thrived; and I ended up adopting them all.

Without Hadjimon watching over me, I possibly, even likely would have become DP'd again. And without his help I couldn't have saved all the orphan kittens.

I believe the spirit of my beloved animals lives on. Thankfully.

Carole


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## Martinelv

Without wanting to damage your belief that there is a cat heaven Carole (and I don't), don't you find the dichotomy between your own atheistic beliefs and the fact that you believe animals go to heaven, a little strange? I'm just curious, because sometimes I (almost) convince myself into believing that my dog/cat/whatever is out there watching over me. Or is this some kind of blending with your semi-Buddhist beliefs?

I can see the appeal of Buddhism, especially in this day and age of tired old religious dogma and pious discrimination. Some of it makes a good deal of sense, but on the other hand the more intricate theologies in it are simply barking mad. I remember (with fondness) being accosted on the street by a Buddhist evangelist, and getting into a deep and meaningful conversation about the 'nature of things', and when I mentioned Quantum Mechanics he almost vomited with disgust and said that 'it doesn't make sense' (which it certainly doesn't), yet then proceeded to give me a book which, at great length, went on to describe how I could visit other planets simply by chanting some stuff and meditating. :shock: In some ways though I think it is a quite sensible 'guide' to living but in other ways some of it's core 'belief' is, to me anyway, simply another version of the universal religion madness. And I don't think you can really claim that it is not, at it's root, based on veneration of a 'god-like' Buddha himself. I went to the Temple of the Tooth in Sri Lanka, Buddhism?s second most sacred site I think, and the degree of religious relish was similar to the more traditional religions. I guess it's just how much you get wrapped up in it, and your culture, like most other things.

Do you find that Buddhism appeals to those normally discriminated against by regular religions - Homosexuals, drug addicts, women, and people who just 'don't fit in' ? When I was living in Holland I found that almost every other gay person I met would say to me, with a slight whiff of piety, that 'Oh, don't you know I'm a Buddhist', like I was supposed to fall to the floor and weep in submission at their intellectual greatness - because of their (usually recent) conversion to 'their' Buddhism. They usually said this through a mouthful of beef burger. There was definitely a kind of trendy aloofness associated with Buddhism, which I found a bit s**t. More and more it seems to me that any form of overt religious belief empowers people to a sense of social, intellectual and moral arrogance, which is usually completely unfounded.


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## CaroleDaBoyz

I don't believe cats go to heaven Martin ... but I believe there is a spirit essence, and it's not the Buddhist transmigration of souls either ... sorry I can't explain it better.

I should have clarified my "Buddhist" beliefs. To me true Buddhism is nothing more than a philosophy, an excellent moral guide. I try ... and I emphasize try (I'm not a very good Buddhist) to live by the Eightfold Noble Path - which to me is a sensible guide to self-improvement ... Right Speech ... Right Thought ... Right Action.

Unfortunately even the philosophy of Buddhism has been bastardized. I went to the Buddhist Temple in Vancouver and the priest or whatever they're called, told me that by saying the Nembutsu I could go to heaven! That was the one and only time I even attempted to get further into Buddhism. The last thing I was looking for was a god and/or heaven.

Buddhism's been corrupted from a good moral philosophy to a religion. I guess that's why so many people think there's a Buddhist god. Right before his death, the Guatama Buddha made it very clear to his followers that he was not a "god" and they were not to try to make him into one after his death.

You're right, there has been a lot of religious hocus-pocus attached to Buddhism. It's a shame, the teachings of Buddha don't need mumbo-jumbo added on. Again, part of the bastardization.

A Buddhist evangelist? Must have been some crackpot Westerner. Buddhism doesn't promote evangalism.

Martin, the Elysian Fields are only in my mind - a place where I can see my departed animals romp in delight - chasing butterflies and smelling flowers. My own little delusion ... that I know is a delusion ... but I like it. I like the concept (delusion) of a perfect place where my animals are safe and happy.

BTW, I have been known, on very rare occasions, to invoke the Egyptian cat god Bastet. But don't worry Martin. I haven't gone over to the other side!!!

Carole


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## jeffd

my votes with Robbie on this one


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## Telepathic11

There is no reason for me not to believe in an afterlife. I have come in contact with the other side many times throughout my life. There is without a question of doubt in mind an eternity after life on Earth. Without question!


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## DiscoStick

There'd better not be an afterlife or I'll be pissed


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## DPbeGone

gizmo said:


> i believe with all my heart that there is an afterlife. i believe there is a heaven and a hell.


Yep i'll second that. Hell, I can live an eternity of happiness, why not?


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## Speechless

hopefully this "afterlife" is DP free and anxiety disorder free, or else I would much rather be cremated thank you very much.


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## match_stick_1

I grew up with really strictly religious parents and so believed in hell for most of my life. Im not so sure anymore though. I believe in god and i pray and i definatley know that without him with me i could have never survived this long but i started really thinking about it and i dont think that god is unjust and would condemn someone to eternity in hell, i think there would be more like karma with equal consequences for certain actions. 
My ideal afterlife would be for my soul to kindof float around free in space and just have no conciousness but float. that would be great


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## dylan44444

I sorta believe in the afterlife...I believe the afterlife is whatever you truly want it to be in your heart, but I don't believe in God.


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## Guest

IMO. Your ego, or soul, will go out like a light bulb when you die and you will no longer be. At least what you think of as you. Your body will decompose and transform as it rots into an energy source for other, smaller forms of life. Smaller, not lesser. Your body, which is your true being, will live on in these other beings. Like when you eat a hot dog your body turns it into energy and builds with it bone, and tissue. "Matter is neither created, nor destroyed." It does not appear from thin air and when you think it's destroyed, it has simply changed forms. I figure I was, in a way, alive before I was born, and will surely be after death. I just won't be I anymore. Pure, unconscious life. In a way, I am you an you are me. We are the grass and dirt and trees. And I'm starting to rhyme, yipee!


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## match_stick_1

ItCouldBeRobots said:


> IMO. Your ego, or soul, will go out like a light bulb when you die and you will no longer be. At least what you think of as you. Your body will decompose and transform as it rots into an energy source for other, smaller forms of life. Smaller, not lesser. Your body, which is your true being, will live on in these other beings. Like when you eat a hot dog your body turns it into energy and builds with it bone, and tissue. "Matter is neither created, nor destroyed." It does not appear from thin air and when you think it's destroyed, it has simply changed forms. I figure I was, in a way, alive before I was born, and will surely be after death. I just won't be I anymore. Pure, unconscious life. In a way, I am you an you are me. We are the grass and dirt and trees. And I'm starting to rhyme, yipee!


wow where have you got all these ideas from? they are really interesting.


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## Pablo

I agree no matter is created or destroyed so your body becomes food for something else but the question remains what happens to your consciousness, your essential characteristics or inclinations after you die. There are Buddhists who have looked so deeply in meditation that they can experience their deepest subtle emotions and motivations (or their karma) as matter just like the matter of your body, so what happens to this subtle matter? as the earth and plants don't need this subtle matter as far as I am aware and it must go somewhere.

I don't have many firm beliefs but I generally agree with the Buddhist position that the stage imbetween life and death can be experienced as a sort of hell like shown in the film Jacobs ladder, as they say in the film that if you are clinging onto life and trying to control the process as you die you can experience devils tearing your life away, but if you accept death and "let go" then you proceed with peace, I don't believe in literal devils rather it as a psychological process of your mind like a bad dream but more real. So in a way death can be a great opportunity or challenge to let go of your last attachments to the world, which is why it is a good idea to work at loosing your attachments and your inclination to try to control life while you are still alive so you have an idea about how to deal with the death process, while those with big ego's will suffer a great deal while they are dying as they will struggle against the process trying to remain in control of their life. After that if you have managed to completely let go then I guess you are liberated and at peace, perhaps you have choice what to do then or perhaps you dissolve into nothingness, but if you still are clinging onto the world even after you have left the body then perhaps that is reincarnated back into the world in a new body in order to work through the remaining attachments or karmas.


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## Mushishi

I believe that consciousness is infinite. Your current consciousness is the same source of infinite consciousness. But, right "now", we're "here". In our human perception, many people view the infinite consciousness as "afterlife" such as a heaven/hell. Heaven is just a higher density/vibrational state of being/reality, as hell is lower. It really reflects the idea that heaven is up, and hell is down.

But anyway, don't listen to me. I'm crazy.


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## SixStringRoad

Blake said:


> i feel like dp has given me a glimpse as to what eternity feels like.
> 
> one of my symptoms ( i dont know if you guys get this or not ) is that i have no sense of time. i never think ... oh that was quick...or that took way long...or 3 hours have passed. theres just no sense of time passing.
> 
> but to answer, i would say i believe in a Higher Power...not necessarily a christian or buddhist or hindu god...just something that is greater than i am exists...


I agree, I don't believe in any organized religion, but I believe in a higher power.


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## SnakeyMLT

Mushishi said:


> But anyway, don't listen to me. I'm crazy.


Everybody Here is, Right?


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