# Here is your cure...no its not a pill, it never will be



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Corduroy28 (Jun 21, 2007)

I like all i've read here and it definately applies to how I feel about my current state. my question is that when you do start to pull back out of depersonalization, do you feel connected to your past self before depersonalization? Or are you a completely different person with different values?

That is to ask, when one becomes chronically depersonalized, does there ego completely die and they then have to rebuild a new one? or are you just reviving and restabilizing the dormant one? sorry that sounds confusing but does anyone know what im saying?


----------



## ihavemessedupdreams (Apr 19, 2007)

so bassicly what your telling us is that we are weak?


----------



## ihavemessedupdreams (Apr 19, 2007)

Corduroy28 said:


> I like all i've read here and it definately applies to how I feel about my current state. my question is that when you do start to pull back out of depersonalization, do you feel connected to your past self before depersonalization? Or are you a completely different person with different values?
> 
> That is to ask, when one becomes chronically depersonalized, does there ego completely die and they then have to rebuild a new one? or are you just reviving and restabilizing the dormant one? sorry that sounds confusing but does anyone know what im saying?


I can answer that even tho im not cured. You do rebuild a new self.

then as soon as you "abandon" this new self 
then you go back to reviving your oldself

i fucked uup i liked my new self and i lost it
and i dont want my oldself soo now i have tostart over

i hate this fucking shit


----------



## rich (Apr 26, 2005)

Like your approach man, well done with your recovery. As many have said before, recovery is about focusing outwards, which in itself involves forgetting your anxious internal thought processes and actually "doing" things which make your feel better. It's not always easy though because my head is always so go damn cloudy and fuzzy that I can't think properly!


----------



## userdp (Sep 2, 2005)

Hi Mlo517,

Thanx for your effort to put your story down.

But I think I have a different view. In my opinion dp/dr is a medical condition which don't go away with focussing outwards, at least for me that's the case. I tried everything, but I still ( 12 years) am dp'ed.

I think your story could also be true for depression 100 years ago. But now we have antidepressants. And of course it is good to focus outwards. but much people who are depressed can't function without their meds. I defenitely think there will be a med which works also for dp/dr in future. Likely not a medicine which is especially for dp/dr. But more a med like lamotrigine which is also not specially for dp/dr, but can be useful. But thanx for your story man. 8)


----------



## ash_is_sad (Oct 27, 2007)

Yes, this is a way to get over it.

The 'ego' and trusting your desire to want to have fun and be happy over your fear is discussed here all the time.

Look up my posts, and Roxannes to name but a few.

This shit is continually talked about, and in more depth.

The human experience doesn't learn, develop chains, or change by being told. It changes through experience. Hence, one day someone will realise something, and their life will change.

Afterwards, they may realise that Socrates said it 2000 odd years ago, but the brain doesn't process change through communication.
So, well done for you, but realise that everyone is on their own path. Offer them luck and care, and be on your way.


----------



## FloatingRoberto (Dec 6, 2006)

Great story MLO,

This sums up much of the wisdom of this site in one simple text. You are right that you have to cross comfort zones. Too bad those comfort zones are soo... "comfy" and people make up tons of excuses to stay in them.

Like the issue Im having:
There's this sorority girl, the classy type with expensive clothing and good perfume.  I know her for a year or so, but never really tried something because Im well... shy  Yet I tell myself I just have to wait for my paycheck so I can buy a good rig as well. We are both pretty vain, so I want us both to look perfect before Ill try n date. 
The moral of the story is that you make up 1001 scenarios in your head of what can happen yet nothing happens.  And I ended up with a girl that didnt work out. ( was fun though  )

The smart way is to ask it right away, much more happens and you never have to worry

Also, when you feel uncomfortable in a situation, like shopping. Never ever shun places like that, just go n shop, it really helps 

Anyways, your post really appreciated, Ill bookmark it for when I feel down.


----------



## Guest (Jan 15, 2008)

ihavemessedupdreams said:


> so bassicly what your telling us is that we are weak?


I'M TELLIN MUM!    :lol:


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2008)

Great post, but seriously,
What I really loved is how you don't talk about the ego as a bad thing like those deluded spiritual people but seriously dude...

Your mind is your brain (you already know that if your into reality) , Jung was good at what he did but he was a superstitious woooo


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## ihavemessedupdreams (Apr 19, 2007)

Mlo517 said:


> ALSO, id like to add something
> 
> Im sure a lot of you have strong dreams, I remember points in my life where I couldnt distinguish between dream and reality. You need to learn from your dreams, because they are your subconcious trying to express itself. Analyzing dreams isnt too easy, but each dream has meaning behind it, and through that meaning you can find out what you need to work towards
> 
> ...


thanks for sharing all ofthis stuff with us man

i secound that ive had dreams ranging from the grimreaper speaking to me in tounges, to an old women grabbing me and calling me an old fucking hag. to me killing people graphicly. to me being picked on.

tons of stuff some of them are hard to dispher but all in all you couldint be more right

great advice thanks


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

I like your post. Thanks alot for sharing.


----------



## medo (Dec 19, 2006)

Nice posts mlo. I do believe what you said especially dp/dr being some kind of defensive weapon against some "danger". Even though dp may be in our mind not our brain, anxiety is certanly in the brain and if you dont get to the roots of the cause, you will only mask ur symptoms temporary. I dont believe there is a single patient on this forum that has dp/dr without anxiety or depression. If I had no anxiety and stress, Id cure within a few days or weeks from dp. However, at this point im not very optimistic.


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2008)

medo said:


> Nice posts mlo. I do believe what you said especially dp/dr being some kind of defensive weapon against some "danger". Even though dp may be in our mind not our brain, anxiety is certanly in the brain and if you dont get to the roots of the cause, you will only mask ur symptoms temporary. I dont believe there is a single patient on this forum that has dp/dr without anxiety or depression. If I had no anxiety and stress, Id cure within a few days or weeks from dp. However, at this point im not very optimistic.


DP is your brain/mind, its the same thing, different word.
But it'st rue the mind affects the brain, cause IT IS THE brain.


----------



## medo (Dec 19, 2006)

Copeful said:


> medo said:
> 
> 
> > Nice posts mlo. I do believe what you said especially dp/dr being some kind of defensive weapon against some "danger". Even though dp may be in our mind not our brain, anxiety is certanly in the brain and if you dont get to the roots of the cause, you will only mask ur symptoms temporary. I dont believe there is a single patient on this forum that has dp/dr without anxiety or depression. If I had no anxiety and stress, Id cure within a few days or weeks from dp. However, at this point im not very optimistic.
> ...


If you wanna debate this pull a thread in the right category.


----------



## medo (Dec 19, 2006)

Mlo517 said:


> anxiety, depression, DP
> 
> its all the same in root, theyre names for the different sensations we get out of it
> 
> ...


Why do you think my dp get tiggered or worse when I light up a cigarette? Smoke normaly relaxes people, with me its the opossite. Probably cuz the nicotine affects my brain it cannot affect my mind right?


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2008)

The cigarette "calming" effect is a myth, doesn't exist. It's ALL mental "placebo effect".
Most people non DPDR/Anxiety disorder get calmer because the nicotine doesnt trigger anxiety for them like in us, but in reality what happens is that nicotine affects your brain/mind(chose word, it means the same, check dictonairy).
Im not here to pick a fight or debate, but bitch please, saying the mind is seperate from brain is saying the fat, proteins etc in food doesn't go into your body, DONT be this retarded, please....
Saying false shit never helps anyone, DP is 100% physical but in the mental sense..


----------



## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

Copeful said:


> The cigarette "calming" effect is a myth, doesn't exist. It's ALL mental "placebo effect".


Really!!

Let's look at your post and and show you why you're wrong, ok?

1:Nicotine stimulates nicotinic acetylcholine receptors in the brain where the firing receptors cause the release of dopamine, a neurotransmitter associated with pleasure and addiction.

2: Smoking may also keep brain dopamine levels high by reducing enzymes that break it down, or by increasing the level of molecules that inhibit dopamine clean up.

3: Nicotine also influences a host of other brain molecules that control mood, energy level, and memory, just to name a few. Furthermore, nicotine increases the number of its own receptors.

Sorry, I'm in a crappy mood.


----------



## klt123 (Jun 15, 2005)

i started seeing a jung analyist.... but it seems she says she has not worked with this a lot..... does not seem like she completely "gets it". is that relevant? did ur analyst understand dp? she wants me to leave all diagnoses in the waiting room which is hard cuz ive done many other therapies...

were u scared of this process? i started having weird dreams and im thinking how is this all working? did she brainwash me or do something to me to make me start having dreams? i am so confused and scared of the unknown of this process. please help me and tell me how this process actually helps and what u went through with it etc. she keeps saying it's not a short process... but it seems u were better in 5 months.. how many times a week did u go?


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2008)

nice try n shit, nicotine is a stimulant, stimulant increase heartrate and anxiety levels, if u think different, try to take it up with someone who gives a fuck

cocaine makes me feeeel good to 


fucktard;\


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## medo (Dec 19, 2006)

COPEFUL IS ANGRY AT EVERYONE BECAUSE HE THINKS IF GOD EXISTS HE WOULDNT BE SICK. HE MUST BE ALLERGIC TO INTELLIGENCE AS HE HAS NO SOURCES EXCEPT DICTIONARY. IT IS SAD.

ps. sory for the caps


----------



## Guest (Jan 17, 2008)

I LIKE COPEFUL SO I'M TELLIN MUM ON YOU MEDO!

ps: also soz for caps


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

I appreciate your post Mlo517, because I started out with a Jungian Analyst too which helped me a lot. However, it surprises me that you'd still use words like "Cure" and "recover". Surely you realise the whole point of Jungian psychology is not to "cure" anything, because it sees every "condition" as an expression of your subconscious and a process of change and healing.

I'm hoping you know what I mean when I say "Through, not out". It sounds like you do, because you say that you've changed a lot through all of this, which is really cool 

My analyst also helped me with similar things. i.e. Strengthening my sense of self. The way she explained it was as though I had no boundaries, no protection - like I was alone staring at an infinite expanse of universe and I had to try to protect myself from it.

This seems to be what you are saying about strengthening your ego. Its an important point, you do need your ego and you need it to be strong at first so that you feel safe and confident within yourself. Your ego is what you use to interact with the world, like a "mask" or interface for your true self to move and work in 3D space.

[Side note - trying to kill your ego doesn't work, it only gets you into trouble  ]

However, in order to feel fulfilled in life, we can't continue to follow our ego. That's because our ego is focussed on 3D space, while our internal drive (libido) values the non-physical. Its only by addressing that internal drive that you'll ultimately feel content. In other words, its not ONLY about getting out and being social etc, though of course those are important steps along the path.

Also, you didn't give us much background. Based solely on the description you gave, your experience of DP was initiated by a scary experience with drugs. Did you have any problems before that? DP is a complicated system of defense mechanisms, which you alluded to and I agree with. You won't be able to break it down and fully heal without addressing all of your underlying issues as well. That takes years, not months, but its an ongoing process. Strengthening the ego and getting out into life is only half of the picture, you also need to heal all of the reasons you are in this mess in the first place (i.e. your past).


----------



## Guest (Jan 17, 2008)

medo said:


> COPEFUL IS ANGRY AT EVERYONE BECAUSE HE THINKS IF GOD EXISTS HE WOULDNT BE SICK. HE MUST BE ALLERGIC TO INTELLIGENCE AS HE HAS NO SOURCES EXCEPT DICTIONARY. IT IS SAD.
> 
> ps. sory for the caps


Hehe, just woke up otherwise i'd prolly laugh myself to death, watch out man thats attempted murder...

"ALLERGIC TO INTELLIGENCE" quote of the year haahahahahaah man, ur a muslim/christian?

Read evolution
Read intelligent design
Compare, if u dont "come out" as a evolutionist, blow urself up, kk thx

Seriously, i know ur prolly a 11 year old girl who just got her period so I won't be harsh on you, just, grow up lil girl


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Guest (Jan 17, 2008)

Mlo517 said:


> can we get rid of this argument crap within my thread, i made it for a different purpose, thank you.
> 
> and evolution doesn't disprove intelligent design.
> 
> seriously, you guys shouldn't even be on your computers, especially arguing. GET OUT! no offense but im trying to help you


Yea it does 100000000%, but anyway your ignorance about science/reality I wont hold against u, ur intentions are all good.
Thread move on, sorry.
I just got one question really: did you recover 100% til the point where u can look back at DPDR and like WOW how was that even possible ?


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

Out of body experiences are tricks of the brain, true. I understandhow that set you into DPDR, i've had similar experiences. Good to keep in mind(or brain) it's just tripping

Anyway, how long did it take for you to go from 100% numb no emotions no self to 100% emotions and self?


----------



## klt123 (Jun 15, 2005)

YOU SAID "YOU WOULD NOT FIND SOMEONE WITHOUT EXPERIENCE IN DP" BUT WHO DOES HAVE EXPERIENCE?NOT MANY! HOW DID YOU FIND YOUR ANALYIST WHO SPECIALIZED AND UNDERSTOOD YOUR DP?

ANALYIS IS SUPPOSE TO TAKE YEARS.. HOW ARE U BETTER IN 5 MONTHS IS MY QUESTION.


----------



## Guest (Jan 18, 2008)

Chronic DP is rare, temporarily DP is common.
Everyone who's ever experienced something very scar/good has had the symptoms. 
Fuck analasys, he got better cuz he took his mind off DPDR and moved on in life, simple.


----------



## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

"flower* analasys, he got better cuz he took his mind off DPDR and moved on in life, simple."

Well said Copeful. So many of us are trying to go deeper down the rabbit trail so to speak. That's not our answer at all, we've got to go the opposite direction.

PS: how do you guys quote stuff...ex: copeful wrote:


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

Yea nah seriously, I'm not here to pick a fight, just if you heard two grown adults talking about them believing earth was invaded by a army of invicible pink unicorns wouldn't you seriously correct them?


----------



## DRyan (Jan 19, 2008)

This is interesting.... I do, however find it very very hard to believe this horrible crap would actually go away by making an effort. Admittedly, I do feel I've lost my sense of self. My ego seems non-existent unless I'm around people forcing myself to interact with them. I have a weak sort of identity that i use to interact and socially when it is absolutely necessary.

I find it strange that this was caused by wishful thinking processes that i admit i had and have. It started around when i started smoking pot about 5 years ago... has slowly gotten worse. I'm pretty deep into it now. I'm fairly brain dead aside from the DR. I cant hold a thought for very long. I don't feel very smart, and trying to think hard puts me farther into my haze. Florescant lights make me warp my in-depth perception altogether and i stare into nothing. The computer screen screws with me some too.

Im going to seriously consider this and toy with the thought. It makes sense and it fits me. I've obsessed over this since it started and since then i've become more and more concentrated on my own thinking processes and trying to figure out what the fuck is wrong with me. I'm sick of living in a dream.

Do you have any advice to help me get started building my sense of self? My condition has become my identity. I read the guide you linked but I'm a little lost at where to apply it to my own life. I'm 18 as well and have to say you are one very intelligent person and have some fantastic perspective... Maybe i need to choose one. I think I've become obsesses with trying to see things from a universal, unbiased perspective. I constantly try to look at myself from other perspectives... Sorry i trailed off thats what i do :wink: .

Thanks a lot for your post, man. I'm going to go to bed but i would really love it if someone could share information and experience with me. I'm tired of feeling guilty about making my mother feel bad for me so i could use someone who actually understands this crap.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

I think our problem honestly lies in 3 sections:

Identity crisis - WHO AM I? (I'm 18 as well and this is normal in late teens/early 20s)
Existential crisis - WHY DO I EXIST, WHAT IS THE UNIVERSE, WHY HOW WHATTHEFUCK (everyone has these philosophical thoughts in their life, but we got anxiety/obsessiveness with it so wont "let it go)
DPDR sensations.

IN DPDR it seems everything becomes tooo subjective, like before when I thought of myself, I used to think 3rd person perspective, how others see me and how I'm really just a person in the world, now I seem more like a empty head floathing around cant even visualize myself in 3rd person (probably same reason I can't recognize myself in the mirror).
I think honestly u gotta just say FUCK IT all, go on and hope u cure and if you dont, comit suicide if the suffering is too much(atleast this has become a very real solution to me, i'm not suggesting it to others however).

it's insane how you see people who suffered something as same as you , come out of it, and can look back, talk about it like it was the flu and it was all in their heads and they now laugh at it all when you feel like there is no escape there is no hope there is no cure there is no future...
To me this used to be a relief "OH IM NTO ALONE WITH THIS, OH THERE IS A CURE, THIS IS JUST A SYMPTOM OF ANXIETY" but now its gone so far I think I hallucinate people who has cured and made up this disorder so I wont think solipsism is true.
Ive completely gone insane from this... My only tip to those in "early stages" GET THE FUCK OUT before it eats every neuron in ur brain..


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

Listen Im not telling anyone to suicide ok?
Im trying to show that thsi disoder can seriously fuck u up if u dont make changes, hows that even negative?
U had it for what? 5months? fuck off, try 24/7 for years COMBINED with extreme Pure O(mental OCD, constant delusional thoughts in ur mind).
Don't give me thsi shit that itll leave me off better, how the fuck can ruining my whole life make me better?
If anything and I cure 100% what will happen? I will have to work my ass off to regain my life, my friends, my job, and maybe if I got energy and money, start on my education again. but at the same time, DOING THIS and feel this preassure to get my feet back on the ground willbring stress/anxiety which can lead to DPDR again, paradox huh?
Im not tryna be negative asshole here, just saying, don't give false hopes.
Im sure when u get out u appreciate things more, like the fact that people just EXIST, that ur sane, that u can feel emotions...

Look, im happy ur cured and all, and ur attempt at healing everyone with DPDR when ur out of it, thats big of you.
Just don't juge anyone, Ive not even seen you here, be thankful to your therapist and those around you and yourself you got out of it quick as you did. Im not saying people cant recover, there are 15+years sufferes who HAS cured, im just sayin dont judge people just cuz u were lucky.


----------



## KEEPCALM (Jan 15, 2008)

NA


----------



## DRyan (Jan 19, 2008)

I agree with my therapist when she says you can either come out of these things a better person or a bitter person. Keep your mind open to this... Lately I've felt like I either want to just get it over with and go crazy and lose all control or i want it to end. The back and forth is killing me.

I do have cognitive problems, Mlo. This is because I had lyme disease that got into my CNS, revealed by a lumbar puncture (spinal tap) but i sure as hell think that those _real_ cognitive problems get worse when my DR gets worse. I've done what i can with antibiotics so now i have to hope i dont have autoimmune problems causing some sort of inflammation in my brain.

:?: why does everything get so much more surreal when I go for a jog? I got lost in my own neighborhood last time i went jogging at night.

Has anyone else become aware of the certain energies and flavors of situations? I feel like i lost a lot of that and for that reason have become aware of it. I always tell people that they cant understand my problem because they wouldn't know they had what I lost unless they lost it too. Our brains work with relativity.


----------



## DRyan (Jan 19, 2008)

Copeful said:


> Yea nah seriously, I'm not here to pick a fight, just if you heard two grown adults talking about them believing earth was invaded by a army of invicible pink unicorns wouldn't you seriously correct them?


It could happen.


----------



## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

Sorry man, schizoselfhelp.com is probably more ur section if inviscible flying pink unicorns is part of ur day life.


----------



## DRyan (Jan 19, 2008)

Ohhh, nevermind. I thought you meant punk. No thats impossible, what do you think im crazy? :wink:

Edit: Oh- Does anyone else get really excited, optimistic, and motivated for a few hours and then crash when they take adderall?

I told my doctor that and he has me on concerta and something else to address a dopamine issue. I actually feel a little different after about 5 days.


----------



## Conscious (Jan 7, 2007)

FANTASTIC APPROACH!

It is without a doubt associated to EGO, SELF, MIND. OUR CONSCIOUSNESS!!!
We all feel separated from our true self.
This poorly understood state goes well well beyond brain chemistry. 
We MUST think beyond what our collective current intelect allows.

We as humans know so so little of our consciousness and how it is embodied within our body. Dp is far far from an illness of the mear brain.
i could go on and on.

I pushed and pushed myself for years, to get on with life. Study, job, wife, kids..... pursued dreams to the point that it brought me crashing down down down.... su..ide
Now i know the crash occured because i'm disconnected, from me, ego, self. it is this disconnection that drives anxiety, panic, insecurity, doubt.
It's not just a disconnection from ourselves, but from everyone around us, LIFE. I've clearly seen it as it should be. reconnected.

Some talk about it as living in our head, not body (Jung, etc). some say incompleted reactions to traumas (Levine, etc), on and on. It all comes to the same problem. 
The challenge without having to say is returning.

We're all on the same journey, just at different points/stages. As we all progress forward most should come to the above realisations.

Meds have help me, but just to keep head above water. They will not be the holy grail. Perhaps in 10,000yrs our understandings will be developed enough to see the grail clearly.

I'm dp for 24yr.


----------



## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

In my opinion, everyone who says a particular cure is the answer overlooks the fact that dp is a side-affect of so many psychological disorders and it can be caused by several events in a persons life. We cannot make generalizations when it comes to what helps lessen or even cure the dp symptoms.

For instance, my dp is part of my dissociative identitydisorder. I developed this disorder in early childhood as a defense and coping mechanism. This disorder is chronical and it stays whether or not I take medicines and whether or not I put my attention outward. Sure, it can help, but it doesn't cure my dp, because it doesn't cure my DID.

I think it's important to know _when_ (how old where you?) and _why_ (what was the cause?) a person got dp. The dp _an sich_ is the same, but the _cause_ can differ between people. Because of this, the treatment of the disorder will differ from person to person. Hence, there is not one treatment that will cure us all.


----------



## present (Dec 6, 2007)

I think you have a good idea of how to get out of this and I appreciate your coming on the board to share with us.
I think I really try to go outward...continue to be social...but it just doesnt really work for me.
My dissociation is so bad that I can only go on what I remember being interested in rather than spontaneously finding interest in something.
This even goes so far as what girls I am attracted to. I guess Ill just keep on going on.
By the way Copeful, Shut the f up. This guy is not here to start one of your typical philosophical debates. If you want to constantly argue find a forum for arguers.


----------



## kazanmolly (Jan 26, 2008)

I just wanted to share with mlo517 that I think his post is very interesting, but....courses for horses, if you know what I mean. 
I'm 30 years old and have had dp on and off since I was 12.
During my early 20's I believed I got completley over it and was cured. For years I was really exellent and the dp seemed like a distant memory...something I could barely believe had existed, however, it did come back...worse than ever.
I just want to let you know that sometimes assuming that you are cured is not always helpful in the long run...I'm not saying that it will come back, but I wont say that it wont either. Your 18 and have a long way to go.
Instead of cure...i now accept that dp is probably going to stay with me because I'm an anxious person, but the thing is....it doesnt scare me anymore because I know what it is and that it wont harm me. Its like my little purple monster. He grows and shrinks depending on what I feed him and how much attention I pay to him. Anxiety in people is a part of life...we need it to survive, but how much is up to us. It doesnt have to control our lives, but it is there. I'm not interested in getting rid of it. I cope very well and happily keeping it on a long leash.
My purple monster can stay...he doesnt stop me living my life or living it well. 
For me, dp is about acceptance and maintenance. I just go with the flow of it and as a result its not very severe anymore.
It may be helpful for some people to stop fighting it and just make fiends with it. Afterall, if you cant beat it...join it.


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Yep you are right Kazanmolly - acceptance is half the battle. The more you try to fight it, the worse it gets.


----------



## amphibians (Feb 10, 2008)

Mlo517 said:


> Now let me tell you what your subconscious issue consists of? INSECURITY. Yes that?s your issue, psychological insecurity. Basically what this means is that your ego (or basically ?you?) feels threatened by the life it has experienced. This then causes it to dub out ?reality?, so that it doesn?t encounter any danger.


I agree with you fully there. 
It's the experiences that triggers DP/DR. Terrific experiences, I believe.
Because when I got my first panic attacks, (before I could understand what it was) I was so scared. I've never in my life been so scared as I was back then.


----------



## Cam (Dec 13, 2006)

Just about everyone has a past, why do you think it effects some people more? I think we are just too sensitive.
I not saying being sensitive is a bad thing just that it can amplify small problems into seemingly big ones.

I have seen families with 4 children, all brought up the same way and all turn out different.

We need to disconnect from what we think are potential threats, I'm not saying dissociate, just disconnect.

EG: If someone doesn't like you then that's their opinion, it's not a reflection on you.


----------



## Guest (Feb 12, 2008)

Black Box said:


> Just about everyone has a past, why do you think it effects some people more? I think we are just too sensitive.


I see where you?re coming from... although I believe it effects people differently because people express their emotions differently. If you?re unable to express anger at the time you?re mad... it doesn?t go away, you just bottle it up... and some people are able to bottle it up for years till someone triggers them to become berserk. Maybe we?ve disabled the ability to outburst in anger and go within ourselves where our emotions cannot touch us. And so when the day comes when we recovery... we have those emotions waiting for us.... waiting for us to express them... although if we don?t... we end back into the dream.

If you express yourself while in the DR/DP state... you?re emulating emotions... not expressing those deep inside of you. This is why some people might need meds to force themselves out of this condition, although like you?ve said before... meds are not the cure, they are just the beginning(For some; not all)... you need to be healed.

If you hate someone to where it sickens you, write them a letter and then... burn it... you?ve spilt your emotions over the paper and it?s job has been done.

Good question anyhow.


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> Black Box said:
> 
> 
> > Just about everyone has a past, why do you think it effects some people more? I think we are just too sensitive.
> ...


Yeah, EVERYONE has a past. Its tempting when you feel down to think you're the only one, but its just not true.

Everyone is different though and it affects everyone differently. Even people that seem ok can harbour deep issues which they don't openly discuss. But those issues come through in all sorts of personality quirks and problems.


----------



## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

Indeed, believing you?re the only one (I did in the past) empowers the belief that you deserve to be taken care of... and you avoid responsibility because you?re ?Special? and want special treatment... (To a point for every one)

Best to open up... you don?t even have to open up in front of any one... you could talk to an empty chair and image the person you hate in that chair and start to express your hate towards them.


----------



## present (Dec 6, 2007)

If you express yourself while in the DR/DP state... you?re emulating emotions... not expressing those deep inside of you.

...I know this is so horrible and even harder to explain to someone. Every therapsit that I have seen tries to say that "you are crying (or whatever emotion they think they see) and that is an emotion isn't it?"
But they just dont' get it.
This is so awful. Today especially as I am 35 and sit in my parents home really unable to function in this world or at least go out into the world and find myself. Jesus, what the hell did I do to deserve this?


----------



## Guest (Feb 14, 2008)

We?re excellent actors... if we didn?t blend to with other humans... we would be outcasts... and so we take on their emotions... we learn as and when to use them... they are tools for us to use to stay hidden within the so called word ?sane?.

You didn?t do anything to deserve this mate... nothing at all... and so do not sink down to be hard on yourself because you aren?t responsible for it happening to you, even if you took drugs... the odds of you receiving DR/DP were so low due to that fact that chronic DR/DP is rare (unless you have it coming and going... although most people only have it once or twice in their lives).

Are you on any meds if you don?t mind me asking?


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

present said:


> If you express yourself while in the DR/DP state... you?re emulating emotions... not expressing those deep inside of you.
> 
> ...I know this is so horrible and even harder to explain to someone. Every therapsit that I have seen tries to say that "you are crying (or whatever emotion they think they see) and that is an emotion isn't it?"
> But they just dont' get it.
> This is so awful. Today especially as I am 35 and sit in my parents home really unable to function in this world or at least go out into the world and find myself. Jesus, what the hell did I do to deserve this?


Are you intentionally forcing yourself to cry or are you crying and assuming that its an act? There is a difference!


----------



## present (Dec 6, 2007)

Are you intentionally forcing yourself to cry or are you crying and assuming that its an act? There is a difference!

The answer is both...I had a meeting with my therapist and he put it best:
He said it's like you cry, but don't feel it deeply. I said exactly.

As for the med question, I am on meds but it doesn't help at all. I still am numb and disociative. Again, just gotta keep on trudging through. Acting as if even though I really was a very sincere and genuine person. REally unafraid to be myself with people. That takes courage. This is the anti-self.


----------



## Guest (Feb 16, 2008)

Some of us can turn the tiny tears on as and when we want because we use memories to trigger them... we?re using abilities to trigger them (Emotions) to happen...we?re pretenders because we know no better. We?re machines because we play the act of humans. Although it?s not going to do us any good saying we?re machines over and over again because the label will stick whether we like it or not... ?we?re humans?.

Yes, the meds I?m on have stopped my brain fog although my Dr/Dp have slowly come back... could be that I need to increase Clonazepam... or find the root cause of my Dr/Dp. Why are you afraid to be yourself with others, or are you unaware like most of us?


----------



## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

.


----------



## present (Dec 6, 2007)

I am not "afraid" to be myself with others. I just can't be myself period. I have shut down even though I never wanted to. Right before this happened I was shedding off layers of bullshit that I had put on because not only was I insecure, but I was unaware of my true self. I was unable to admit it in the first place.
It was such a powerful time before this with what I was going through. Finally getting in touch with my feelings. Realizing how I had repressed emotions for most of my life and no longer really doing so...approaching the truth even as difficult as it may have been to acknowledge.
And then out of nowhere in the span of one weekend...first my true self and words had gone away...then insight into what was going on inside of me...then blunted colors and then by Sunday...a total split in my head...like a vice was gripping my brain and I have yet to recover. AHHHHHHH! All mt prejudices had gone away (not in a good way, like I was a racist or anything, but true recognition of difference) All my truths and insights that I had discovered about the world...gone...my spontaneity...my fear...my excitement...my laments...my relationship to individuals...
All most likely because my borther had died the year before although I cannot even say for sure because this "great Repression" disallows me to even go there or go into my childhood...
Thanks for letting me rant here... I needed it...
"I can't speak for your experience but I believe that, for me at least, I honestly, somewhere, am feeling the emotion I'm expressing. I just have a disconnect that prevents me from actually experiencing my own emotions most of the time. 
I don't think that the emotional reactions I have are fake even though I may not feel a connection to them."
-Very true Layla. I know what you mean. I can sense they are still there just diconnected. It makes it difficult to really find direction though if you are unable to follow these feelings. You know what I mean? I mean isn't life about finding meaning in our lives?


----------



## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

present said:


> It makes it difficult to really find direction though if you are unable to follow these feelings. You know what I mean? I mean isn't life about finding meaning in our lives?


I think that when I stop trying so hard to know what I want, when I just go with my inclinations, it takes me to a better place, if that makes any sense.
I am trying to live more mindfully and to realize that I do know what I need to be happy,somewhere in me, I just need to trust myself more.
:lol: like I'm giving up control of myself, to myself, if you get what I mean.

I don't know about finding meaning. 
It sounds so big and heavy.. finding meaning. 
I think there is meaning in small acts and in every little moment like watering my potted plants so they don't die, cooking or doing dishes. I guess that's enough for me right now. 
Big and profound in the little small things.
I think it can be paralyzing thinking that you need to find some larger meaning, or that you need to find some larger purpose because it can get to the point where nothing you do can be that way. Nothing will ever be what you have worked yourself into thinking you need. 
I could go there and I know it so I won't.
I think it's too easy to get caught up in searching for something big and profound and you miss the things that actually do mean something to you.


----------



## present (Dec 6, 2007)

I think that is exactly what I mean when I talking about finding meaning in my life...even the little things. I mean I get nothing out of cooking anymore or doing the dishes or going to the beach or even watching my favorite team on tv.
This sounds so negative I know, but I am trying. I agree also that you have to learn to trust your feelings, but I really am so numb that I feel nothing so I cannot really trust myself and it makes things so difficult. 
I appreciate your post though. Sounds like we are on the same wavelength at least a little. If I can just get to my feelings I can really appreciate what you are saying.


----------



## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

.


----------



## present (Dec 6, 2007)

Thanks Layla for your response. It is actually an extreme relief to speak to someone who finally gets it. I respect your finding something in gardening.
I have tried and continue to try. I just made Tuna Fish...so I am practicing cooking which I know made me feel good before this. Basically I like your gentle approach to this. I have tried to hard to aggressively get thourgh this even though that is not my nature and clearly not only does it not work but it helps turn me even more into something I am not.
It is nice out and this morning I went for a walk with my mom (actually it is pretty much always nice here in Florida!)
I keep and looking at this book about Anthropology which I was about to study before all of this happened and it seems to get me excited...I think. Idont know right now.
Anyway, have a great day. If you ever need someone to chat with you can pm me and I will send you my email.


----------



## Elrohir (Oct 28, 2006)

Mlo517 said:


> Hey guys, I?m new here, not because I?m suffering from DP/DR but because I?ve overcome it. I would like to offer you guys what I truly believe to be your miracle. Before you continue reading, I want you to know that this is will work for everyone, although I am coming from a subjective point of view, this applies universally. There are no meds, no routines, none of that crap. Why? Because your problem doesn?t stem from your brain, and it does not stem from drug use (although that may have triggered it). Where it does stem from is your psychology, specifically your ego (no this isn't in your brain, it is in your MIND, which isn't located in your brain....if you're into philosophy you'll know this).
> Whose philosophical work postulates _that_?!
> The mind affects the brain, if your psychologically depressed, your brain will have the chemical structure of a depressed brain


You can say this evenly vice versa. Your ego has the shape of a chemicaly depressed brain. Its consensus(!), that depression and bipolar disorder result from dysfunctional brain-chemistry. You can hardly treat such disorders with behaviour therapy. 20 years ago the behavioural/positive thoughts approach was applicated and - failed!


Mlo517 said:


> You weren't born to be depressed, anxious, or depersonalized, it is all due to your psychological development. Derealization isn't a mental disorder, as you may or may not know, DP/DR is a psychological defense mechanism. It occurs when your ego (your sense of self in contact with reality) feels that it is in danger and needs to shelter itself from the subconscious.


Too bad one hears this stupid argument sooo often. I ask you, if the human subconsciousness is _made_ to _handle_ frightening situations, to handle them in a particular, yet intelligent and caring way as you propose, why then in such an compromitting and unprofitable way? But ok, if you still want to believe in your magical deus-ex-machina subconsciousness, please..
But (!) the connection between ego(thus past-, or childhood-experiences) and brain function has already been evidently monitored physically. Amnesia for example can likely be the result of stress hormons overflowing the hippocampus and amigdala(thus block the receptors for other transmitters), where their distribution is triggered by, for example, negative childhood experiences. The ego is NOT an absolute instance of an individuals consciousness. Its in correlation with your brain chemistry, yes there are interactions in both directions, and in the end its furthermore all chemical, physical. Memories are chemical mechanisms too!
And even with your theory of the Ego laying around somewhere in the universe you cant discutate away the strong need of intact physics, which provide your perception, as the ego still would be "mounted" in your brain in the physical world.

At this place I don't want to quote and answer further parts from your post as my real problem with your ideas expressed here are not scientific/systematic interpretations, however described.

Its the big *just* I read between the lines here!
- its *just* your ego, thus its not a "real" disorder.
- its just your ego, thus it's your own fault.

The deal about that kind of argumentation is that it widely opens the ground for trivializing the whole experience of an DPed individual, due to leading it back to an easy-to-grasp "root", and proclames the definite chance of recovery, where its said to be your own fault, if you dont snatch this chance. Last thing would be true, if your theory really worked for everybody, but it - definately - does - not. The things you described where my first, my second, and my third trials I tried to overcome this state, and I guess they were for many others on this board. Guess what? It didnt help, furthermore I was and I still am hardly prevented to socialize BY the dp ITVERYSELF, no matter how hard I tried, and I did! (thats why I think you should not call psychological disorders defense mechanisms, as they make you rather incapable of acting instead of helping you out of arbitrary situations.. They do not deserve this name - defense, help)

Though it's not a bad thing to socialize - if you can.


----------



## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Elrohir - are you elvish by any chance :lol:

I don't think anyone said the ego was anyone's personal fault. If anything it is an inbuilt aspect of life which is very hard, very very hard indeed to control. It is the hardest thing to control. The way we are constructed. When people say it's an "illusion" I think what they mean is that whilst we walk about with our ego eye-goggles on, a lot of information about life and even other people, is generally filtered out. An example of this is that someone with social anxiety may have the perception that everyone thinks they are ugly/boring. It then means that a lot of that person's experiences are judged by whether people are bored by them or act with any disagreement. The person then tries hard to not be boring/ugly, but that attempt to not be boring comes from the wrong place, so to speak...while the person is afraid of being ugly/boring, the other person may be worrying about their father's funeral and wish the other person was emotionally available to them at that moment in time...or just that another person accepted their pain/journey. It looks strongly like people have similar deep needs to one another, but that a lot of our true needs get displaced when they aren't met. Another example of this is that someone who feels her dad rejected her may spend the rest of her reproductive life trying to seek approval from men. So the cycle goes on, and until the person sees that is happening, its very hard to find meaning in life, because they are a slave to their own unhappiness. If we can find ways of filling our needs for affection/love which aren't going to hurt others, we also make ourselves emotionally available to others on a more authentic level. Ironically, those people who find it easy to be accepted probably just accept themselves warts and all. So literally the worst enemy resides inside until we see the nature of it and how it controls much of thought/action/response.


----------

