# DR vision



## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

Hi Everyone
I have visual disturbances, its just so difficult to put into words what it feels like.
It's almost as if the images are fragmented/distorted, yet when you focus on an object it appears normal...
The closest illustrations I can find are as in these images below...although not like that or that extreme, but something is off like that...can anyone relate or describe their visuals if they have any?
Thanks

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/526386_2553190249311_1840586341_1574043_2116335449_n.jpg

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=derealization&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1434&bih=705&tbm=isch&tbnid=j5UBMeF8vfLTKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.cureyouranxietysite.com/anxiety-articles/derealization-and-depersonalization/&docid=dnN-TQDWL8cmLM&imgurl=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3281/3066776579_cc210f2c88.jpg&w=500&h=333&ei=9N7aT6yRFYyU8gO-g_TBCw&zoom=1

http://users.rider.edu/~suler/photopsy/derealization.htm


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## Dragonfly (Sep 16, 2010)

Oh yes, I definitely experience this. Sometimes things become so distorted and fragmented that I get dizzy. It feels like I'm in a house of mirrors or on some sort of sinister carousel.


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## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

Dragonfly said:


> Oh yes, I definitely experience this. Sometimes things become so distorted and fragmented that I get dizzy. It feels like I'm in a house of mirrors or on some sort of sinister carousel.


Thanks Dragonfly

I like your house of mirrors analogy
Which situations make these symptoms worse for you?
Thanks


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## Dragonfly (Sep 16, 2010)

ParaSpeed said:


> Thanks Dragonfly
> 
> I like your house of mirrors analogy
> Which situations make these symptoms worse for you?
> Thanks


I think fluorescent lights are the worst trigger. Places like grocery stores and Walmart leave me incapacitated in the aisles sometimes. Anything with lots of people too - like State fairs or amusement parks. Even an open house at my daughter's school will do it. It's very disorienting. Eventually I just shut down completely. It's times like that when I think having a service dog would be very helpful - the animal can be trained to just lead you to the door so you can safely get out.

There are things I try to do to prevent it, or at least minimize it. If I'm already feeling DP'd/DR'd, I'll take a small dose of lorazepam before I go into the situation. If it begins once I'm there, I try to ground myself. But sometimes even these things don't help and I just have to go to the restroom or somewhere to regroup. Oddly enough, I find the color red very grounding and I try to pull out the red in my environment (luckily there's a lot of red in a grocery store!) - it sounds strange, but it works. It's like when things start to fade, the red is still visually strong and gives me something to hold onto.

When do things get bad for you?


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## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

Dragonfly said:


> I think fluorescent lights are the worst trigger. Places like grocery stores and Walmart leave me incapacitated in the aisles sometimes. Anything with lots of people too - like State fairs or amusement parks. Even an open house at my daughter's school will do it. It's very disorienting. Eventually I just shut down completely. It's times like that when I think having a service dog would be very helpful - the animal can be trained to just lead you to the door so you can safely get out.
> 
> There are things I try to do to prevent it, or at least minimize it. If I'm already feeling DP'd/DR'd, I'll take a small dose of lorazepam before I go into the situation. If it begins once I'm there, I try to ground myself. But sometimes even these things don't help and I just have to go to the restroom or somewhere to regroup. Oddly enough, I find the color red very grounding and I try to pull out the red in my environment (luckily there's a lot of red in a grocery store!) - it sounds strange, but it works. It's like when things start to fade, the red is still visually strong and gives me something to hold onto.
> 
> When do things get bad for you?


Sorry to hear that.
For me although the visuals are present most of the time, complex patterns make it worse...where there is too much visual detail to take in...like yourself, supermarkets, lots of people, trees and woods etc
Also lack of sleep does it for me too.
It's almost as if the mind is so exhausted to handle all that detail
I also have these symptoms:

a) Constant feeling of detachment, cut off from own experience, where one feels foggy, feeling as if you don't know where you are, but you do (these sensations appeared slowly over a period of few weeks) 
b] Feelings of disconnectedness/unfamiliarity, feeling distant and dreamlike sensations, as if the mind is not in the present, sometimes feel as my body is just doing things but my mind is disconnected, far away...sort of on autopilot (robotic) feeling. 
c) Can only describe the foggy feeling similar to the sensation when staring at something for a long time without blinking&#8230;difficult to describe.
d) Visual disturbance (perception) as if my I'm viewing the world through water, sort of fragmented vision...difficult to describe
e) Sometimes seeing flashing lights in dark places and when eyes closed 
f) Tearful (i do cry) almost everyday and feelings of dread, hopelessness, have lost all motivation 
g) Feel mentally drained, feeling of tight band around head and neck tension 
h) Feeling restless and sometimes feelings of trembling in body (internally) 
i) Feeling dizzy/light headed/unsteady and often feel cold, chilliness 
j) Sometimes sensitivity to light and sounds 
k) High pitched Tinnitus

Don't know if you can relate to any of these?
Cheers


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## Dragonfly (Sep 16, 2010)

ParaSpeed said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> For me although the visuals are present most of the time, complex patterns make it worse...where there is too much visual detail to take in...like yourself, supermarkets, lots of people, trees and woods etc
> Also lack of sleep does it for me too.
> It's almost as if the mind is so exhausted to handle all that detail
> ...


Many of the symptoms you've described sound like the way I experience DP/DR. Some of them, though, sound like classic depression. Even the cold feelings - I get that a lot when I'm depressed. The DP/DR may be a separate entity (as it is for me), but it may also be a complication of your depression. Do the flashing lights happen while you're trying to fall asleep? That can sometimes be a normal phenomenon, like when your body twitches as you're trying to fall asleep. But it could also be a sign of a serious eye problem, so I would have that checked by an eye doctor.

As for the DP/DR...yes, and yes, and yes...detached feeling, like my sense of awareness is somewhere in the back of my head while my body is just slightly in front of me going through the motions. Feeling like I'm not in control of what I'm saying, my arms and legs feel far away, feeling like there's something between me and my surroundings...sometimes I get tunnel vision or things seem larger or smaller than they are. Things seem really flat - even more than they usually do for me. I am blind in one eye and do not see in full 3D - but the DR flattens things out even more. I can only imagine what it must be like going from full 3D to DR'd. I have never had binocular vision, so it is not something I can compare it to. There are also times when I don't recognize myself or those close to me. I mean, of course I know who they are, but they look very foreign to me. Eating and writing feel very awkward and there have been times I've been too DP/DR'd to eat. Sounds can also seem very far away at times - that's when I know I'm really shutting down and can feel myself simply disappearing. I get both DP and DR, sometimes together, sometimes separately. At times it does feel like sensory overload and other times it's just there.

It's such a difficult thing to try to explain to people and not something I've shared with many people in my life. It was a relief to finally find out what it was after living with it for almost 30 years. It's so nice to have this place to come to and be understood.

I hope you can find some relief soon. Do you have a psychiatrist? What helps you cope?


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## shattered memories (Jul 19, 2012)

im like dragonfly....the thought of going to walmart or an amusement park cripples me. i remember when i was a kid i would have dpdr episodes while waiting in line for a ride a Six Flags...and it just made me wanna leave. yesterday i faced my fear and went to walmart to pick up some fish oil and i actually made it ok.

paraspeed i experience everything you mention a-k even in my dreams....no relief it sucks


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## Dragonfly (Sep 16, 2010)

shattered memories said:


> im like dragonfly....the thought of going to walmart or an amusement park cripples me. i remember when i was a kid i would have dpdr episodes while waiting in line for a ride a Six Flags...and it just made me wanna leave. yesterday i faced my fear and went to walmart to pick up some fish oil and i actually made it ok.


That's great that you made it through. It feels so good to be able to get through a store like that - it might just be to get cat food or something, but it feels like such an accomplishment. Some days are like that. Some days I feel guilty that I can't seem to handle things like school open houses or amusement parks very well. Then other days things come more easily and aren't as much of an effort. But we keep pushing along.

I'm sorry to hear that you've struggled with this since childhood. I know how that feels.


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## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

Dragonfly said:


> Many of the symptoms you've described sound like the way I experience DP/DR. Some of them, though, sound like classic depression. Even the cold feelings - I get that a lot when I'm depressed. The DP/DR may be a separate entity (as it is for me), but it may also be a complication of your depression. Do the flashing lights happen while you're trying to fall asleep? That can sometimes be a normal phenomenon, like when your body twitches as you're trying to fall asleep. But it could also be a sign of a serious eye problem, so I would have that checked by an eye doctor.
> 
> As for the DP/DR...yes, and yes, and yes...detached feeling, like my sense of awareness is somewhere in the back of my head while my body is just slightly in front of me going through the motions. Feeling like I'm not in control of what I'm saying, my arms and legs feel far away, feeling like there's something between me and my surroundings...sometimes I get tunnel vision or things seem larger or smaller than they are. Things seem really flat - even more than they usually do for me. I am blind in one eye and do not see in full 3D - but the DR flattens things out even more. I can only imagine what it must be like going from full 3D to DR'd. I have never had binocular vision, so it is not something I can compare it to. There are also times when I don't recognize myself or those close to me. I mean, of course I know who they are, but they look very foreign to me. Eating and writing feel very awkward and there have been times I've been too DP/DR'd to eat. Sounds can also seem very far away at times - that's when I know I'm really shutting down and can feel myself simply disappearing. I get both DP and DR, sometimes together, sometimes separately. At times it does feel like sensory overload and other times it's just there.
> 
> ...


Hi Dragonfly
I can relate to all that, especially the far away from immediate surroundings/robotic feelings.
The flashing only happens in dark places, when going to bed etc, its not there all the time, only when I get physically tired (i have had my eyes checked)

I've listed below what i think led to my current state:

1) October 2010 my father passed away, felt very bereaved, tearful a lot for a long time. 
2) About 6 months later, around May 2011, I developed tinnitus and lots of tension around the head (like a tight band feeling) and neck tension. 
3) I searched on the Internet for causes/cures of tinnitus constantly for days on end and assumed the worse (brain tumour), I worried about this for weeks on end, and this made me anxious. 
4) Finally I went to see my GP about the tinnitus who suggested an MRI scan, and whilst waiting for the appointment (another few weeks) I felt very anxious. 
5) October 2011 had MRI scan, this came back normal. 
6) Around November 2011 (and again in April 2012) had blood tests done (thyroid function etc), all came back normal.
7) GP suggested anti-depressants in Dec 2011 (Citalopram 30mg)
8] Took these for about 3 months, had side-effects but no improvements in symptoms. 
9) Stopped medication 1st March 2012, had many withdrawal symptoms

My doctor says i should try CBT

How did your DP/DR start?...I guess you've seen numerous doctors etc, what do they think is causing all your symptoms?
Have you tried any medication?
Thanks
PS: can low mood/depression cause the dreamlike/diconnected feelings etc?


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## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

shattered memories said:


> im like dragonfly....the thought of going to walmart or an amusement park cripples me. i remember when i was a kid i would have dpdr episodes while waiting in line for a ride a Six Flags...and it just made me wanna leave. yesterday i faced my fear and went to walmart to pick up some fish oil and i actually made it ok.
> 
> paraspeed i experience everything you mention a-k even in my dreams....no relief it sucks


Thanks shattered memories
how did you get DP/DR and what does your doctor think is causing you to feel like that?


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## shattered memories (Jul 19, 2012)

Ive always had the ability to dissociate since I was a child. It normally happened when I was in a large setting with a lot of people...but I was always able to snap out of it. I can remember the last time it happened before it became permanent...about six months ago I was at Walmart

As for how it became chronic, its rather pathetic and I cant believe how I let a few small things screw me over and cause me to suffer for the last five weeks. I regret those moments every single day. Im so sorry about your father and my inception of chronic DP is totally bullshit compared to the grief you suffered. Might be a bit TMI so read on with caution!

During a week's period the following "trauma" happened to me: first I thought I had diabetes (i didnt) and it TOTALLY freaked me out and put a lot of stress on me. Earlier in the summer I met a guy who I was totally head over heels over. He was just perfect: handsome, intelligent, kind and seemed genuinely interested in me. I just wasnt used to meeting guys like him. During the trauma week, I found out he was actually already seeing someone else and told me I was just a summer fling and didnt mean to lead me on. I was absolutely crushed. The last straw was when a couple days later I began having "man problems" if you catch my drift. This sent me into full panic mode and I was terrified that I really did have diabetes or MS considering ED shouldnt be a concern at my age. It made me physically ill thinking about it and everything just went to hell from there. A couple days later I woke up and everything hit me and I've never been the same since. Im so pissed at myself and keep thinking how I wouldnt be stuck in this mess if I was more level headed. My doctor didnt even acknowledge my DP but just wrote it off as anxiety.

Anyway, sorry for the rant...I do think CBT and ACT are great ways to deal with DP and I hope it helps you out too!


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## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

shattered memories said:


> Ive always had the ability to dissociate since I was a child. It normally happened when I was in a large setting with a lot of people...but I was always able to snap out of it. I can remember the last time it happened before it became permanent...about six months ago I was at Walmart
> 
> As for how it became chronic, its rather pathetic and I cant believe how I let a few small things screw me over and cause me to suffer for the last five weeks. I regret those moments every single day. Im so sorry about your father and my inception of chronic DP is totally bullshit compared to the grief you suffered. Might be a bit TMI so read on with caution!
> 
> ...


Thanks shattered memories
i understand exactly what you've been through and what its like... grief is grief, no matter the type of source, but you must not look back, just let the past be.
Are you getting any help for DP, what does your doc suggest you do to get better?


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## shattered memories (Jul 19, 2012)

thanks yeah its hard but ive really been trying to live in the present more









as for treatment i was put on clonazepam. its so weird its made my dpdr slightly worse but at the same time me so much more numb to it. i can handle it so much better and the racing thoughts and rumination have subsided.

also ive been reading "overcoming depersonalization: a mindfulness and acceptance guide to conquering feelings of numbness and unreality" and that has been helping tremendously even though im only 2/3 the way through. i keep rereading the chapters on ACT and DBT.


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## Dragonfly (Sep 16, 2010)

ParaSpeed - so sorry to hear about your father. It sounds like you've gone through a lot to try to get to the bottom of this.

And Shattered Memories - obviously the psychic trauma you experienced was enough to really affect you. No need to apologize for it - your grief is not bullshit.

As for how my DPD came on...I've been struggling with it since I was a young child. When I was three years old I fell through a glass door and almost died. But back in the 70's, kids didn't get PTSD or suffer from mental illness (that revelation didn't come for 10 more years) - so they spent all this time rehabilitating my hand and arm (which suffered extensive damage) and ignored the trauma to my mind. Every time I heard a siren I would run to my mother, crying. They told my parents to send me to nursery school. That's the best they could do for me. I remember being in a dream-like state for much of my childhood and into my teens. I didn't know what it was, I just called them "dream states" and "grey outs" because things sometimes fade to grey. I also have bipolar disorder and had my first hospitalization when I was 14. I talked about the "dream states" then and they sent me for an EEG, but nobody ever told me what was happening. It wasn't until I was 31 years old that a pdoc finally said, sort of offhandedly, "oh, that's just dissociation" - I was like "JUST DISSOCIATION???!!! This has a name!!??" That was 11 years ago and I have learned so much since then.

To answer your question ParaSpeed - yes, you can have DP/DR as a symptom of a mood disorder. Many times once you address the mood issues, the DP/DR goes away. In my case, it is a separate entity and not related to my mood. The problem with the DPD mixing with the bipolar disorder is that it led to the wrong diagnosis, and hence the wrong treatment. They had me labeled as a Borderline, which is bullshit and other pdocs have since refuted that, but for a long time I believed that I was inherently flawed and beyond treatment since the treatment they were giving me wasn't working. Once I was finally given the right diagnosis, I could address things properly and am doing much better today than I was 10 years ago. I'm not completely well, and am on disability, but I'm in a much better place than I was before. I had a second EEG and an MRI back in 2003 after a round of ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) left me feeling really dissociated. They did find some minor abnormalities, but nothing conclusive.

As for my attempts at treating the DPD, I don't think it will ever go away completely. The damage is too old and too deep - I get both psychological dissociation and somatic dissociation (my whole body shuts down and I enter this place of sensory deprivation where I can't hear, move or speak, yet I'm still aware) and they've done studies showing actual physical brain changes in cases like mine. I've been on many of the meds that they try for dissociation, most of them were used for my bipolar though. I've taken Lamictal for the last 9 years and haven't noticed any difference - works great for my mood though. SSRI's make me manic, so those won't help. I tried naltrexone for a while, but didn't find any relief from it. So, for now I'm using lorazepam only when I need it. I usually try to take it before I go grocery shopping and it helps a bit. I don't feel particularly anxious before the DP/DR sets in, but once it does the anxiety from it makes it worse. So, even with the lorazepam I'm still get a bit DP/DR'd, but it doesn't bother me as much.

Like I mentioned earlier, something interesting I've found along the way is that the color red helps bring me back. Now, I'm not sure if visually the red stands out, giving my mind something to hold onto, or if as a child I associated the color red with safety (my grandmother wore a lot of red), or if it's a combination of the two, but if I'm dissociated in a public place, the first thing I look for is the red in my environment and it helps keep me from floating to the ceiling. I try to be proactive about it and do things like bring a red notebook to meetings at my children's schools. I guess I've learned to live with it since I haven't really had any other choice. But for me it's not constant - I have periods when it's not there and then it comes back. I've been in a pretty DP'd state for the last week or so now though, but the DR isn't too bad. I get both and not always together. When I'm manic it goes away altogether - I guess all the cylinders are firing on overtime then. Sometimes it's there when I'm depressed, sometimes not. And sometimes my mood is fine and has been for a while and it will set in. But nothing shuts me down faster than seeing someone fall through glass in a movie or something. The first time that happened I was 14 and was watching View to a Kill in the theater. It came to the part where James Bond crashes through the glass of the TransAmerica building and I totally lost it and ran out of the theater in a panic. Once I was out, I could barely move and was sharply dissociated for days afterward. I had no clue why. It happened again last winter when I was at home watching another movie - I ended up curled up on the couch in a ball for an hour. That's when it really sucks - when it's so completely incapacitating and comes out of nowhere.

Anyway...sorry to ramble...I hope I've answered your questions.


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## shattered memories (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks dragonfly for sharing your story. You been though a lot and I have much respect and admiration for your continued strength


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## ParaSpeed (Apr 29, 2012)

Dragonfly said:


> ParaSpeed - so sorry to hear about your father. It sounds like you've gone through a lot to try to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> And Shattered Memories - obviously the psychic trauma you experienced was enough to really affect you. No need to apologize for it - your grief is not bullshit.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dragonfly, you have!
Yours sounds like a classic case of childhood trauma DPD (although i am no expert)
Do you know what minor abnormalities they found?
I think you are such a brave and noble human being, you deserve to have all that is good in life, and one day you will get there

For me i think i have to address my tired mind stemming from all the anxiety and low mood and hope these sensations fade over time.


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## Dragonfly (Sep 16, 2010)

Thank you both.

The MRI showed some mild asymmetry and a small region of increased water, but nothing really diagnostic.

Despite all I've been through, I consider myself very fortunate. I've been happily married to my high school sweetheart for 20 years and we have two beautiful children. We live comfortably in a beautiful and safe part of the country on five acres in the woods. I'm on disability now, but I was able to earn a college degree and have enjoyed a 20 year career as a Medical Laboratory Scientist. Life isn't always easy for me, and there are days when I am incapacitated by either the bipolar or the dissociation, but overall I can say that life is good.

I hope you are both able to find some relief to your symptoms.


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