# Dont Bash me...Please help



## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

ok first off I just want to say please dont judge me for my actions. I am very happy I found a site like this and I want help, I do NOT want people to ruin it for me and bash me for things I have done.

Ok here it goes....My name is Matt. I am a senior in highschool. I have always been interested in the human mind and reality as a whole. My grandmas cousing was Timothy Leary, so Im related to the guy. I have had an interest in drugs and have found their effects very very interesting. I have experimented with some drugs i.e. DXM, Marijuana, 2C-E, but I am by no means a druggy or heavy drug user. I anything Im a light user / experimentalist. Drugs have never interfered with my life until now.

I have always loved marijuana, Ive been using it for about a year. At the beginning of summer I put in an amount of marijuana into my vaporizer to get me pretty damn stoned. Afer that, I out the same amount in. I got really stoned x2. I had entered into unknown territory, which was a very bad idea, for I then experienced what I think was a Panic attack...

before I explain please just let me tell you that I was never exactly a heavy pot user. I hade done it every friday, then maybe every 3 days, then everyday for the first days before and after the beginning of summer, which was about 5 days or so. Nothing Heavy

This episode consisted of me thinking that the world is fake, probably computer created of just a dream, and that I was a robot being controlled by some other being. I felt like I coudltn swallow and things were very lucid. Needless to say, it was a horroble experience. I toom a break for a little more than three weeks. During that time I felt what I think is called dearealization and depersonalization. The First week after the episode was the worst, everything seemed meaningless, life seemed a dream. the second week was better, a lot more managable, but definately still not feeling "all there". The third week I felt good more often than I did bad, but again still not all there. During that time I seemed to make steady progress. I began to excercise, take more vitamins, eat better (fruits for snacks and not junk does wonders), I listened to mellow and calm music, and that seemed to work. NO DRUGS during that time. No weed, psychedellics, stimulants. NOTHING.

I feel like life is a dream. Actions seem meaningless, and life seems like an illusion. I was thinking of suicide the first week of this, but I am better now, but not completely. I still have period where I get into this vicious cycle where I start having the unreal thoughts then I say to myself "no think normally" then I think that normal thoughts are menaingless and whatnot and its driving me crazy!

I had not had a panic attack, or so i think, before hand. I am a general paranoid guy. Im always thinking I have something wrong with me. I cant tell you how many times Ive thought ive had cancer or some mental problem. For the majority of my Junior year I was depressed over a girl. That is done. We are no longer ever just friends, and I feel better, but im not talking about this in depth.

Anyways...last saturday I decided to give weed another try. I successfully had a good time by constantly reminding me that life is real and that everything is going to be ok. It worked. It was bliss.

But eventhought It was great, It raised my general anxiety. I was much more calm the following days but the anxiety and derealization was up a very small amount, not a lot, but JUST enough to make me see a change.

Which brings us up to date. this has not been a totally bad experience. It did bring up some very interesting ideas and feelings that were actually beneficial to me and Im thankful for these new ideas.

I guess I have some questions. these are mainly for the pot heads / ex pot heads out there but ANYONE can answer and please do.

Questions:

How long is this going to last?

what are the best ways to get rid of this?

how can I prevent it?

can I continue to use marijuana?

should I cut back, and use it in moderation or just completely stop altogether?

If it means peace of mind and mental health I will, but sadly, stop using altogheher, But im hoping I can defeat this thing and still get high.

For those or you who have read this far, THANK YOU SO MUCH! for those of you who choose to respond THANK YOU EVEN MORE. Help with this issue or mine means an incredible amount to me. Thank you all in advance!


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## MARC DAUPHINAIS (Jul 12, 2006)

HI MATT ,MY NAME IS MARC AND AM FROM MONTREAL (QUEBEC)
I WAS INTEREST IN YOUR STORIE BECAUSE IT MADE SOME SIMILARITY TO WHAT I FELL IN THE PAST . IF YOU KNOW THE *LINDEN -METHOD *THAT THE BEST METHOD THAT BE CREATE FOR ANXIETY SUFFERER OR WHATEVER YOU GOT RELATE TO THIS PROBLEM . NEVER FORGET THAT WHAT HAPPEN TO YOU IN CREATE BY YOU AND ONLY YOU . I IN THE PAST SUFFER FROM SOLID ANXIETY DISORDER AND I AM 100% CURE AT THIS POINT ON.
NO MEDICATION AND NO THERAPY . IF YOU ARE A SERIOUS PERSON AND YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND CLEARELY WHAT HAVE BEEN HAPENING TO YOU, PLEASE GO TO THE LINDEN METHOD WEBSITE.
PS : ( I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION WITH THIS WEBSITE I JUST BUY THERE SYSTEM AND IT MADE MY MIND CLEAR FOREVER)
RE PS: FOR THE *MARIGUANA *BE CAREFUL WITH IT, USE IT IF YOU WANT WHEN YOUR IN A GOOD MOOD NOT WHEN YOU WANT TO ESCAPE YOUR FEELING IT CAN GET WORSE. I HOPE THAT I HELP YOU A LITTLE BIT WITH MY KNOWLEDGE.


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## Starz5 (Jul 5, 2006)

Hey Matt,

I totally and completely relate.
Please go to this: http://www.marijuana.com/420/showthread.php?t=46773 ,Read that, thats me, dazed5 on marijuana.com. I posted that about 2 months ago when all this started for me.

Like you I was not a frequent user in fact, less than you. Marijuana was the only drug I'd ever used and probably only used it 10 times in the past three years, more of a social thing at times. It used to make me laugh, or relax me, make me sleepy.

When all this started..that night I was at a friends house who is a frequent user. I was crying upset about some things going on in my life. I've always been an anxious person with some depression issues, a deep thinker about things, but I never thought I had it to this extent, but the mind is the most powerfull tool we have. I've always loved learning about the mind, loved psychology classes and learning how powerful it truly can be...after all thats all we really have. Although only 21 in college, I had gone through a lot of issues, relationships, financial mess, other troubles the past few years that were damaging probably to my self esteem and psyche, I probably should have gotten some counseling, but I thought Im strong, I can deal with my own problems..which probably instead of dealing with them, I probably burried them.

Everyone on here seems to think its linked to anxiety and depression, which I totally agree. I only believe marijuana can be the catalyst for some people. For others there can be many other things. We all wish we could go back, especially for the drug-induced, thats not possible though, we simply have to understand the basis of what is going on and proceed on with our future keeping our hope and beliefs.

But anyway, that night like I said, I was depressed about some things, my friend suggested "it might make you feel better..." normally it did, woudl relax me, make me laugh some, put me at ease. Well I took about 3-4 hits off a joint. It felt like all the sudden the high, went straight to my head, feeling fuzzy, kinda dizzy, at first I tried to ignore it, it was pretty strong, then it got stronger..which triggered>PANIC. I had never experienced an anxiety/panic attack before. That night was my first and I havent experienced one since. But I started freaking out I was like " this isnt normal, what is going on"..Started hyperventalating, heart racing, fuzzy feeling, didnt even want to go to sleep which is what my friend kept telling me and telling me to "calm down, no one has died from weed, you're not going to die.."..freaking me out more.

I thought .."..but what if when i sleep, my respiratory system shuts down?!?" I literally thought I was going to die in a house I didnt know with a person who didnt REALLY care about me and I'd never see my family again. Finally I fell asleep. The next morning..I felt a little off, but didnt really notice it untill got back to my apt. I looked in the mirror, and freaked out. It didnt feel like me, and my hands didnt feel real..everything very scary..didnt experience DR much just DP. The first few weeks were hell...came home just fell to the floor crying, thinking i'd F'd up my whole life..now what? Conversations with people, I felt distant far off like what I said didnt really matter or I was watching them not totally emerged, like I didnt count..things felt fuzzy, walking even felt weird, my hands didnt feel like mine..working was the worst and still kinda is I need a new job haha. I work at an office typing. TYPING..deals with your hands, it was like I Knew everything Im doing but watching my every action. Still kinda sometimes but I try to ignore it. Like I said need a new job and distract myself from these thoughts. But.. no one seemed to understand. I went to a doctor a week after it happened, took a urine test was clear..he just said "These are just some residual after effects of taking a drug..nothing permanent and will go away." then Im sure going to the back of the office laughing thinking Im just a average kid messing around with some rec. drugs. He prescribed some zanax which i only took 2 times, made it WORSE like soo sleepy groggy feeling so I stopped that immediately. I went to a counselor/psychologist, she was the only one who really understood, being a psychologist she would , but I dont believe anyone truly does untill they experience it.

I felt just how you felt. I felt alone..and mad at myself, blaming myself wishing i could change what I did. But think about it, I wonder how many Rock people, musicians, actors, politicians, use the stuf. This has to happen to others and obviously it has. I bet u some of these people on here might use fake names to cover up who they are cause maybe they experience it. I dont know..but what I do know is we cant blame ourselves..its already happened.

I like you, have gotten a lot better. And like the person stated above...I ordered the lindon method and Im going to be using it and sticking to it. I do have some questions for you:

Do you experience a fog like feeling in your head?..I do

Slight pressure in your head?

My ears feel clogged up and keep popping ever since all this, dont know what thats about..do you experience any of this?

Anyway..I do believe this is a way of thinking we have programed our subconcious to believe...its now a matter of changing our thought patterns back to the "non-anxious behavior" we know and used to live by.

Hope you read my post thing on marijuana.com b/c thats also a lot of other things I wanted to say.

Anyway, Im with ya on this, and I believe we'll get better...in fact we are fine..same person we were, we just THINK we aren't and think we feel different when in fact we really dont. But believe me I know how hard it is to change it...slowly.

Sorry this was pretty long, but I hope I added some insight. Feel free to IM me or email me back or anything, always good to hear from someone else about this.


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## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

Well to answer you questions on the bottom, I dont really feel a pressure, but about 2 days after I toke up, I get on and off headaches for a few days, but nothing bothersom.

I did, at one point, feel like I I had mind fog. I dontreally know how to explain it except my imagination was definately dampened and I couldnt imagine things nearly as vividly as I could before. I felt like this one morning after I had gotten really stoned, It was bad, It wasnt DR or DP, but it was frustrating. I dont want to get awkward, but it had a huge effect on my sex life and libido. That only lasted about a month tho and wasnt really a porblem, although I was worried. I thought I had brain cancer, but thats just because Im normally a worrysopme guy about health. Ive thought ive had, brain cancer abuot 4 times. One time because I kept seeing this red moving dot in my vision field that would last a few seconds. I also was seeing, still do, millions of tiny dots when I looked at light colored things. Turns out the dot was jsut caused by extreme stress, and the dots were just floaters and white bload cells that we can see. But yea I worry about that.

Your story sounds alot like my first 2C-E trip. The fist half was the worst feeling ever. I literally thought I was going to die and kept thinking "why oh why did I do this how could I be so stupid." I was numb all over, and could barely feel myself breathing. I evenentually turned on PInk Floyd's the Division Bell (if you dont have this album GET IT its the most calming album I have, and I have a lot) and just concentrated on my breathing. Once I was finally calm, it was actually feeling pure bliss i was amazing. I went form the worst feeling Ive ever had to the best feeling Ive ever had.

Looking back makes me wonder....when having a bad trip on a hallucinogen, thats just caused by massive anxiety right? Lots of people have bad trips and keep taking the same drug later. Isnt this the same with weed? Have a bad experience and move on and do it again like it never happened?

I did vaporize some weed last saturday and had a good successful time. I just kept reminding me that I was high and that bad ideas were just drug induced and not real. I also played calm music. It was bliss. But if Its gonna raise the anxiety and make me feel like this I, though I willbe disheartened, not do it again, or at least with ver limited use.

the thing that reall bothers me is this. It makes me feel to good afterwards. The days following a high are the only days I can really be myself around people. It has helped me be a lot less shy and anxious in situations. Im just so calm, more relaxed, funnier after Im high...I want to keep acting like this, and not be stiff around people I dont know like I was before I started using weeds. This shit brings up some hard decisions.


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## Starz5 (Jul 5, 2006)

Yeah...well. I dont know about doing it again. I've talked to some people who have done it again after this and were fine and told me if I did again I'd be fine too but saying you have to truly believe it will make you better and be fine .. I dont know..it really does depress me though at times..sometimes its good..sometimes its not. Sounds to me like you're over it though, so I guess thats good in your case.


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## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

Im not over it unfortunately, I just toked up to see what would happen. I dont have it really bad, its just bothersome, and I keep worrying that this feeling is going to make my last highschool year and this summer very bad, as its already ruined my summer.


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## felimz (Jul 4, 2006)

Every time I have smoked weed since I had my first bad trip, I have had hugely intense trips, which are _not_ at all enjoyable.

Because of these insane trips, my body has learned to react with panic to marijuana, so it is ill-advised (at least for me) to smoke marijuana until I have my DP/DR and anxiety much under control.

If the high does not cause you extreme anxiety, then smoke all you want. Smoking won't cause DP/DR. It is the anxiety of an intense trip that triggers it.

Good luck, and smoke a blunt for me. I wish I could. =(


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## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

wait so smoking it doesnt make the anxiety levels go up? So if I use a low dose everyday for a week, it wont like raise my anxiety overall? I have heard that marijuana makes the anxiety levels go up whether youve had a panic attack or not. is this true?


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## felimz (Jul 4, 2006)

Marijuana does not always make your anxiety levels go up. That largely depends on whether you are generally anxious and/or on your past experiences with the drug.

Marijuana can, however, accelerate your heart beat and distort your perception to the point where you might find it alarming if you tend to worry about those things while you are high. The intensity of my first bad trip on Marijuana is what caused my anxiety to go up (and what led it towards a panic attack).

So, if you actually feel more relaxed while you are high and it takes your worries away, then do it! You'll definitely be able to tell if your anxiety levels have increased while you are high. If all you feel is relaxation and your regular "high," then you have nothing to worry about.

Just make sure that being in that state does not elicit thoughts of unreality that might increase your worries and anxiety. I think if I got high right now, I would instantly be reminded of my worst DR/DP episodes, which would instantly increase my anxiety levels to a point beyond my control.


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## Starz5 (Jul 5, 2006)

Marijuana is linked to increasing anxiety, its in several studies. I believe it just depends on how anxious you are or underlying things you have going on inside you. Now I realize I think the mind is like 10% you see, the other 90% is "underwater" like an iceberg. Marijuana obviously brought on intense anxiety for me probably from underlying factors like other people have said, I believe DP and DR is: an intense form of anxiety which you must get that under control first. For me I dont think I can look at marijuana right now as something thats going to do me good when I've associated it with this. Its a chance you take, as we've all found out.


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## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

let me rephrase his...does the THC that stays in your body while you not high contribute to raising anxiety levels. I know that when your high your anxiety can go up, It can also go down drastically. What im asking is, when im not high will it go up because of marijuana use?


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## Starz5 (Jul 5, 2006)

It can raise someone who already has anxiety, it can raise your anxiety level making you more prone to other anxious behavior...also been shown that its very much linked to depression and withdraw behavior. The THC metabolites only stay in your system for I believe like a month ..and I dont believe thats what gives you a spark of anxiety....once the high is gone its all a mindset from there on. Just the fact I believe and read, marijuana makes an already anxious person more prone to anxious behavior...thus...can be in form of DP..or DR steming from a possible bad encounter (panic attack) or bad experience with the drug.


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## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

so it only raises your anxiety when your high and your anxiety levels go back to normal when your sober?


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## felimz (Jul 4, 2006)

I doubt there's a relation between DP/DR or anxiety and trace amounts of THC in one's body.

I believe only symptoms like short-term memory loss and reduction of complex cognitive abilities are observed while THC is still in the body.

I think the immediate high and change of perception and body functions is what causes anxiety while high. Remember, your breathing becomes more shallow, your heart starts to palpitate faster, your pupils dilate. It's in many ways similar to a state of high anxiety, at least to your body.

You can, however, be quite relaxed while your heart and breathing are more active than usual. That's why most people do not even notice those changes. The ones that do, usually freak out and enter a state of panic. That's us.

And then we DP and come to this forum and write a post about Marijuana.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

If you have had a bad reaction from weed give it up, its not worth gambling your health on a few puffs of green. I know it is difficult if your friends are all doing it or something like that but you have to just stop and have the courage to do your own thing. After I started having problems it was hard to stop smoking because in every social situation someone would skin up and a joint would be passed around and it was hard to say no, but once you have said no a few times people dont even worry about it or treat you in a different way or lose respect for you. You might even gain respect.

Maybe your social situation isnt like this and you dont want to give up weed because you just enjoy it, well then you just have to have discipline and stop as its not addictive, but in my opinion it is impossible to recover from any mental issue if you dont give up weed.

You sound like many people I know who cherish weed and love it as part of their life, and for some of them it is even a part of how they define themselves, but most of them have grown out of this as they realised that it is not a habit which ultimatley helps you get to where you want to be in life and if it creates anxiety the alarm bells should start ringing as anxiety can snowball into a problem far greater than you can imagine


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## MSM (Jul 12, 2006)

well its just like anyother drug. Its not like im gonna have a bad reaction everytime I get high.

For now, im just gonna eat right, get the right amount of sleep, excercise almost everyday, take more vitamins and minerals and some natural herbs (omega 3, calcium, St. Johns Wort), suppress the bad thoughs, keep my mind occupied, and so on until I get this whole thing figured out.


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## none (Dec 29, 2005)

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## none (Dec 29, 2005)

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