# Derealization is NOT emotional apathy



## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Emotional apathy.

Two words scary on their own. We're freightened by the possiblity that they're true.
It's something we see constantly mentioned in every book or subject regarding Depersonalization and Derealization.

Those words are spoken by those who suffer from this horrible disease, to describe the way they connect with the World.

They are, however, misleading. And false.
For it is not true, that one suffering from DP and DR does not bear the capacity to feel.

We're only given the illusion that they're true, because of the strength of our nemesis.

"For a long time... this is how I felt:

- Depression, without sadness. No crying. Love, without that warmth feeling in your chest. Laughter, without happyness. Breathing, without being able to feel the air... the touch of the wind on your face.

All was gray, indiferent, but without emotional apathy, for one time I witnessed my mother crying, saying she wished she was dead. I felt extremely depersonalized. It's like I wasn't even there. I was, however, still there. And I went to her, and I was with her, and I hugged her and gave her a kiss and said that I loved her very much.

But I couldn't feel my words... but they were spoken nonetheless.

Did I do it because I thought that was what I should do in that situation? Did I do it because, given that I was scared that it was indeed true that I couldn't feel anything, that I was apathetic, I had to prove to myself that I actually cared for someone?

I didn't knew why I did it at first, but I thought: Why did I do it? Wouldn't it be just as easy to leave it be and just let her cry?"

If I couldn't do it, if I couldn't feel it, I wouldn't have done it.

It's like... I can feel, without the chemical part of feeling. Feeling without feeling.

During these dark times, I felt something... But it was neither shallow nor deep. It wasn't superficial nor meaningfull. It was something else. As if... my emotions were clouded. They were there, and they did their part, but they couldn't be expressed enough for me to be able to feel them.

It's like I am in the same mood, or state of mind, wherever I go, with whomever I am.
It's always there.
I can be eating, socializing or having sex, It just doesn't go away. it's 24/7

And then... I thought of the following:

Maybe, it's not a matter of being or not being able to feel. But a matter of perception. This is the way I feel in my parallel Universe.
This is something that affects the level of expressivity of emotions, but not in a way that marks their impact as superficial or profound. For in this Universe, their limit of expressivity may be at a maximum. The sensors of sensitivity and perception of external stimuly however, are nonexistant.

But that raises the question that, if I can't sense that real is real, the result would be emotional apathy right? No emotions would be required, if I am not in touch with reality (because reality is non-existent).

It's like my senses are off, I'm not on alert, not foccused. I don't have enough emotional perception for it to mean something.

But that's clearly not true.

To my body at least, it does have meaning.

If you think it through, you'll realise you do bear feelings. 
You do things, everyday, for a cause. You hug your friend, kiss your girlfriend, go out for a jog.

We're hardwired to feel, and act on our feelings.
And we do it to perfection, despite our flaw.

This is why others can't tell that we suffer from a mental condition. We seem ... just fine.

But you can't perform emotionally dependent actions, without emotion. You can't cook without the main ingredient. It's just not possible. So it's got to be something else.

If we were emotional apathetic, all would seem indiferent. And if everything is indiferent, then there is no cause, no motive for us to do anything at all.

I wouldn't have gotten up at 9:00 am to catch a train to get in time for my midday football practice. You wouldn't have bothered to waste 1 and a half hour of your time to pick up your brother from the airport.

We would be spending our time, locked in our houses, doing absolutly nothing.

Our lives would be a void of interests, filled with meaningless activity that beared no significante.

We do things everyday that require emotion to be executed.
Sometimes, we even ask ourselves why we do it.

"Why did I do what I just did, if I feel exactly the same as I was 5 minutes ago?"

The truth is, you do feel different, and your body knows it. But your mind is messing up the whole process.

Your body is able to perform emotionally dependent actions, but your mind is blocking the way you feel incoming friendly chemicals. And so, everything feels cloudy or foggy, but still, you are amazed with the ability you posess to perform as if you didn't suffer from none of this.

"Feel" is a very complex word.

You're here, reading this. You're here, replying to this post.
Because you have hope or just due to sudden curiousity.

In either case my friend, that requires emotion.
Whether or not you can feel it, is another different story.


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## Mandy L. (May 24, 2010)

miguelmalato said:


> Emotional apathy.
> 
> Two words scary on their own. We're freightened by the possiblity that they're true.
> It's something we see constantly mentioned in every book or subject regarding Depersonalization and Derealization.
> ...


i'M sorry to hear so but try to cheer up instead of digging deeper, I really hope you get better, and you know, its possible :T

Cheers


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Amanda L. said:


> i'M sorry to hear so but try to cheer up instead of digging deeper, I really hope you get better, and you know, its possible :T
> 
> Cheers


The point of this post was to let those who suffer from Derealization know that they aren't apathetic zombies without heart.

Digging deeper is the only way to get to the truth.
When you know, without further doubt, what you're dealing with, it helps considerably to fight against it.
That's the way I work, at least.

Everyone tells me to "stop thinking"; "You think too much"; "Just try to relax".
Well ironically, my way of relaxing is thinking it through.

I get these epifanies about my condition, and when they occur, I feel better. Less confused, less dazed, the fog begins to disappear.

It's not bad to think, as long as you use your brain to actually try to comprehend the situation, not simply dwell in mysticism and wonder in doubt of everything.


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## Gypsy85 (Sep 23, 2010)

I love your post. I have thought about that as well, but I honestly just thought I am simply pushing things on the positive side in order to cheer me up









But having read your post I am even more convinced that this is true. Something in me is still as emphatic, as emotional and caring as before: I just do not feel it the way I used to. As you said: I DO have emotions, but they are somewhat.. yeah, clouded is a good word to describe the way I feel.

I still feel pity for people... I still cannot see beloved ones suffering... I still do the things I used to and although I do not feel the same when doing them, I just want to do them again ^^

Thanks for sharing!


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## Quarter Pounder (Jun 17, 2011)

Wow, that was deep. One of the most insightful posts I've read for a long time (imagine, I logged in just to comment on it). I wish people did more threads like this instead of doing updates about their symptoms over and over again or asking about driving or shit like that.

I believe you are right about everything you said or at least I hope you are.
When one has derealization, the words "emotion" and "feeling" acquire a whole different meaning because they do change in the transition from non-DR to DR, and yes, we still feel somehow, otherwise I'd have kill myself long ago. The other possibility is that we were just used to feel before that now we know what we should feel and when and respond to it automatically, right?

Thing is this disorder messes or puts a cloud over what you should be feeling and perceiving. It's like the knowledge is there but the chemicals are missing.

I just wish so so so much that that cloud lifted once and for all


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Quarter Pounder

"When one has derealization, the words "emotion" and "feeling" acquire a whole different meaning because they do change in the transition from non-DR to DR, and yes, we still feel somehow, otherwise I'd have kill myself long ago."

I believe true emotional apathy is impossible. Everyone feels motivation for something, no matter how small. 
For you to even consider the hypothesis of taking your own life, it would require you to feel a certain ammount of sadness along with other emotions, because if you have no reason (and by reason, I mean emotional motives) for you to do something, you don't do it. We, as human beings, function according to our Emotions.

We're servants to their will, and our fate depends on them.

"The other possibility is that we were just used to feel before that now we know what we should feel and when and respond to it automatically, right?"

This would be true, if your body operated on some sort of emotional routine.

For example:
On every morning, you get up, kiss your girlfriend and then you go to work. At work, you personally greet everyone you meet. Once you arrive home, you spend the aftertoon with your girlfriend, you watch a movie and then, before going to bed, you make love.

Basically, what you're saying is that our lives were already robotized in a way we did certain things automatically, and so, given that we lost our ability to feel when we became Derealized, our actions would have remained the same, and it's performance unchanged.

But we do different things each day. And if that were true, if we were indeed operating without emotion, victims to a meaningless routine, you would lose to ability to perform other actions that would require it.

For instance, after you exited work, instead of heading straight home to watch a film with your love partner, you would spend the afternoon at a Yoga class, which is something you never tried before.

You would be unable to perform at full capacity. You wouldn't know what to do.
They would say to you: "Remain calm."; "Get in touch with your body." "Breathe slowly and think positive." And all that woo-woo shit.

It's like I said before, I don't think it's possible for you to perform emotionally dependent actions without emotion.

If you're missing the main ingredient, you can't do anything at all.

And we clearly posess the main ingredient








Now I just have to find the damn salt!


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Huggy Bear said:


> I agree that the usual description that we cannot experience emotions is too simplistic.
> 
> On the one hand, I believe that we suppress certain emotions, because they are too painful to process/experience (including the unbearable feeling of being imprisoned by DP), which causes non-transient DP in the first place.
> 
> On the other hand, we become much more sensitive about certain things. For example, I have become much more sensitive regarding the plight of other people...


What you say is true... It's like you feel a certain numbness towards certain stimulations and an exaggerated sensitivity towards others.

Still, you might not feel it there, but I believe I make a very good argument, a rationalization, that proves that it is indeed there.

Just today, I went to do crazy stuff with my friends.

I took the car, and we went out to a roundabout to make a couple of driffts. I never felt like this, the rush of adrenaline...

But at the same time, I could still feel the presence of my Depersonalization. I've been feeling much better lately, but I am not still completly cured.

However, I seemed completly normal, and my reactions were normal. It's like... I was observing my own behaviour in the 3rd person and I came to the rational conclusion that I was behaving identically when compared to a non-depersonalized state.

So, what's really missing here is not the emotions needed, it's clearing the way for them to be felt. They have been clouded by my own mind.


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## Quarter Pounder (Jun 17, 2011)

miguelmalato said:


> It's like I said before, I don't think it's possible for you to perform emotionally dependent actions without emotion.
> 
> If you're missing the main ingredient, you can't do anything at all.
> 
> ...


Yeah.. I agree, we do new different emotional-based actions everyday. For example, I still listen to songs and I relate to them or feel nostalgic about them. That must mean SOMETHING right? Thing is, it's still not okay to feel things without actually _feel _them. It's like ejaculating without an orgasm lol. I mean, the main function works, yes, but what's the point?

Still, it's thousands of times more relieving that than the idea of full emotional apathy.

You know, to me, the cloud that produces the visual side -2d flatness, unvividness- of derealization, the "living inside a bubble" thing AND the emotional numbness (not the lack of them, just the numbness) are all part of the same problem. It's not something that we lost, but something that we have to get rid off

So the real question becomes how to make this shitty cloud dissipate


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Quarter Pounder said:


> Yeah.. I agree, we do new different emotional-based actions everyday. For example, I still listen to songs and I relate to them or feel nostalgic about them. That must mean SOMETHING right? Thing is, it's still not okay to feel things without actually _feel _them. It's like ejaculating without an orgasm lol. I mean, the main function works, yes, but what's the point?
> 
> Still, it's thousands of times more relieving that than the idea of full emotional apathy.
> 
> ...


Well my friend that is the million dollar question.

Personally, the best thing that works for me is socializing and sleeping well. I know this sounds absurdly vague, but you have to set simple goals for yourself if you want to get through this.

I also found that my Derealization is deeply connected with my ability (or should I say, lack off) to concentrate on things such as conversations or paying attention in class.

And so, I found that there are a couple of things that help with that. And by fixing my concentration problems, I soon found out that I was also relieving my symptoms of Derealization and Depersonalization.

This is the article I wrote on that same subject, I hope you enjoy it









http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/30836-tips-that-decrease-depersonalization-and-add/


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## tengent (Apr 22, 2012)

Very interesting post, thank you for sharing. I've thought about this quite a bit. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what part of me doesn't feel things like I used to. But when I listen to music, ... I really do feel something there, something that I've always felt when I listened to music. So I'm extremely thankful for wonderful music.


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

tengent said:


> Very interesting post, thank you for sharing. I've thought about this quite a bit. It's hard to pinpoint exactly what part of me doesn't feel things like I used to. But when I listen to music, ... I really do feel something there, something that I've always felt when I listened to music. So I'm extremely thankful for wonderful music.


Interestingly enough, I too always felt something for music.

Music as been, ever since I can remember, the one steady constant that has lifted my heart during dark times.

I don't know if my life would have been the same without it


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2012)

My two cents from having this for decades.

The term derealization simply means "the outside world appears distorted or unreal" etc. It is recognized as a perceptual distortion
The term depersonalization simply means "your body does not feel real" Again, a perceptual distortion.

Another perceptual distortion is deja-vu, which is not well understood, but it is found it has nothing to do with memory, etc.

I have depression, anxiety, and DPD. I am still the emotional, artistic person I always was as a child. I was always gregarious even when I felt bad. People still say, "But you look fine, you laugh." This is with my baseline chronic DP. When it is terrible I can't move. I do not socialize or interact at all as I can't. I feel I have disappeared.

To me this has nothing to do with emotions and apathy.

And we can go back to individuals who have DP with epilepsy, stroke, head trauma, etc. They are STILL the same person. It is during the episodes of DP/DR they become frightened and more incapable of social and occupational activities.

Apathy, would be more the "shutting down" in depression.

Healthy people who experience DP/DR simply acknowledge it as stress, exhaustion, lack of sleep (very common). And they say something like their focus is in "survival mode" if this hits during an emergency situation. They are still themselves, but they are suddenly focused only on surviving an event. They will even say, "It didn't seem real, I just ran like a maniac and barely remember running from that attacker."

We are ourselves, and we have a perceptual distortion.

We are human beings who have some glitch in the brain which comes from many sources. Trauma, drugs, and many medical conditions.

Anyone with a mental illness is still "themselves" underneath. The symptoms make it difficult to interact. Complete lack of emotion would be seen in severe depression, schizophrenia, etc.


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## Existential (Apr 28, 2012)

You describe emotional apathy perfectly....You "feel without actually feeling". Someone cries, laughs, is excited and there is only a canned response....much like canned laughter on TV shows...it is not real laughter...only robotic....

One of the best books I have found is
Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder: A Mindfulness and Acceptance Guide to Conquering Feelings of Numbness and Unreality by Fugen Neziroglu, Katharine Donnelly and Daphne Simeon (Paperback - Jun 3, 2010)


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Fearless said:


> "...but the fact that you still have emotions doesn't mean it's not an emotional apathy."


That sounds like a contradiction to me.


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Dreamer* said:


> "To me this has nothing to do with emotions and apathy.
> 
> We are ourselves, and we have a perceptual distortion.
> 
> We are human beings who have some glitch in the brain which comes from many sources. Trauma, drugs, and many medical conditions."


My goal with this post, was to help lift the illusion that we are no longer emotional creatures.

For you and I, it is know that this isn't about being or not being able to feel, because we've already overcome certain questions and uncertainties.

But many live in fear of doubt, and are afraid that they're no longer able to have feelings for things in life (interestingly enough, this fear opposes their conviction that they have no emotions).

I've been through this, and I know what a terrible feeling this is, this Fear.

All I wanted to do was to enlighten others by forging a good argument, and eventually help people cure themselves by knowing the truth about their condition.


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Existential said:


> You describe emotional apathy perfectly....You "feel without actually feeling". Someone cries, laughs, is excited and there is only a canned response....much like canned laughter on TV shows...it is not real laughter...only robotic....
> 
> One of the best books I have found is
> Overcoming Depersonalization Disorder: A Mindfulness and Acceptance Guide to Conquering Feelings of Numbness and Unreality by Fugen Neziroglu, Katharine Donnelly and Daphne Simeon (Paperback - Jun 3, 2010)


It might feel canned to you, but others cannot tell the difference between that laughter and the one you had before you suffered from DP/DR.

That's because the core emotion required for that laughter is still there, only there's something else messing the whole process that doesn't allow you feel it.

PS: I also have that book but haven't read it yet. I am currently reading "Feeling Unreal", by Daphne Simeon.


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

The thing is, I don't think we're emotional apathetic.

I think that, unconsciously, we are so foccused on our depersonalization, that we bypass all other emotions to the point we can't feel them.

Given that this is by far the most cativating and damaging sensation of ours, we end up devoting too much time foccusing on this feeling.

It's like... when you're sad and feel deeply depressed, imagine that all of the sudden you would see yourself circled by friends and laughter. But still, you couldn't just shake away your depression.

All that happyness that your friends are providing is meaningless, because you're too foccused on your own misery. You're still in your own private space, your own mental corner filled with loneliness and sorrow.

The same case applies to depersonalization.

We suffer deeply from this, because it is something constant and permanent... Something that refuses to go away. And so, it's normal that our disease is the only thing we can feel, and all other sensations are sort of filtered or ignored.


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## Magrathea (Jul 8, 2010)

Excellent post. I agree

I came to a similar conclusion when i saw this contradiction:

1) I had (i thought) no emotions
2) I cared deeply about the effect this might have on my friends and family to the point of tears welling up in me

Either 1 or 2 must be false. I knew 2 was true, so 1 must be false. The emotions are there, they just don't hit conciousness in the same way


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

Magrathea said:


> Excellent post. I agree
> 
> I came to a similar conclusion when i saw this contradiction:
> 
> ...


Exactly!

You either have feelings or you don't.

Both hypothesis are not possible to occur at the same time.


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## miguelmalato (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't mean to brag here, but I think this was very well written.

I just wanted to refresh this post in hope that it would serve to aid more people


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