# Trauma, Dissociation, and Disorganized Attachment



## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

This may be of interest to those in the Harris Harrington camp.

http://empty-memories.nl/science/Liotti_Trauma_Attachment.pdf


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## aworthycause (Mar 22, 2010)

What camp is that? The "DP is nearly always caused by childhood trauma and you must resolve this trauma in order to recover" camp?


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

aworthycause said:


> What camp is that? The "DP is nearly always caused by childhood trauma and you must resolve this trauma in order to recover" camp?


I very much disagree with this bullshit. He's trying to sell it with that but dp/dr is also one of the most common symptoms of anxiety/panic attack.


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

aworthycause said:


> What camp is that? The "DP is nearly always caused by childhood trauma and you must resolve this trauma in order to recover" camp?


those who subscribe to his views. basically, if you are interested in the article, read it, if not, don't


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

hennessy said:


> I very much disagree with this bullshit. He's trying to sell it with that but dp/dr is also one of the most common symptoms of anxiety/panic attack.


god, not this again


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## tomenko (Jun 9, 2015)

Hennessy, you could not agree with that bullshit, as you call them,

but there's a big scientific community supporting this field.

Just few names: Schore, Levine, Odgen, Van der Kolk, Simenon, Steele, Van der Hart, Lanius, Nijenhuis, neuroscientist like Damasio, etc...and you can go back to the beginning of ninteen century and read about Janet, Jackson, etc.

Also because if dp/dr it's just a problem of anxiety/panic attack, why should we have problems in our integrative functioning, why do we have some strange phobia or manias, etc..?

and why there are just few chronic depersonalized in a world "based" on anxiety?

If dp/dr was just due to anxiety i would expect many more sufferers.

In short, i think anxiety it's just a slice of our awful cake..


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

THERE ARE 2 TYPES OF IT TOMENKO.

One of them is a disorder by itself which might come from trauma.

One of them is a symptom of intense anxiety. I got cured from this just by curing my anxiety 6 years ago in a few months. Never relapsed for 6 years. Now I have this for 1.5 month and I'm already getting better as I'm lowering my anxiety.

I read the philosophy Solipsism while I was extremely anxious and coming of cocaine after 3 days of non stop use. You also can call that a trauma but at the end of the day it's the anxiety for me. All of the doctors I have been to, even with those who are very well informed about dissociation told me that I experience dp/dr as a symptom of anxiety and I'm nowhere close to a dissociative disorder.

That's why this site has too many recover stories. The one some people here call "short term version" are the people who has it as a symptom of anxiety and of course they make quick recovery stories because it's as simple as that. They cure their anxiety for good, they cure their dp/dr.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

And not all the dp/anxiety sufferers come to this site. Dp/dr is also a very common anxiety/panic attack symptom and this is a fact. Not all the people who has it need to have trauma.


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## tomenko (Jun 9, 2015)

Nice to know you're better and you'd already beat the beast.

As you say, if you have dp/dr just as an outcome of anxiety-OCD-depression thoughts, you'll probably get rid of it soon.

take care

p.s. one question: i know that few people recovered and then had it again and then recover again and then had it again in a circle, several times...

Would you/we wonder if that's a sign of something never completely overcomed that re-emerge every time someone is facing a stressful period?


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## thy (Oct 7, 2015)

It is interesting. I wonder if for those who only have it from anxiety their DP feels different to those who's DP is unrelated to anxiety?


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## 58779 (Jan 7, 2016)

Very interesting questions.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2016)

Okay everyone enough! Number one, as a psychology major and being in depth in the feild myself, disorganized attachement style does happen and causes everything from seperation anxiety to schizophernia DEPENDING on the person's personality, sensitivity, etc. Its not a one size fits all. Two, most peope do have some form of childhood trauma. Look at the society we live in. Be realistic, how many of us get away, how many of your parents got away, from the news, the put downs, the comparisons, the media, acne, etc. HOW MANY? All of us are traumatized in a certain way I believe if you are SENSITIVE and have a genetic tendency for it, its going to be worse. Three, Harris Harrison. I am not disagreeing with the guy and have reviewed his youtube vids. Here is the problems I have with this kid. One, its video's. You cant make a journal, well you can but its not that easy, to go over your childhood trauma's and expect to be cured. Psychologists spend thousands of hours doing this , getting by defense mechanims IN PERSON to do and sometimes still can't get there. The one thing I really dislike and is the foundation of ANY therapy is trust. How do i trust someone if they don't even tell me they're real name? How do i order a package online if he can't even answer my email or question? For all of you that want to do this HH thing, go for it. Personally, I think the dude should come out and say who is he and answer some things and questions from this community. If he did that, I and I am sure others would take him seriously. He says he's criticized from this site etc. Well yeah. We all are to degree's especialy if we hide and are not forth right. NOBODY is going to fullly agree with you dude, but it certaintly helps what your selling, "live productions" if you yourself are real and can take some questions etc. For those of you , on another note, that believe diet and thinking do contribue to this. I would highly recommend Dr Freedman. I declined to do it cause i don't think it applied to me, but talked to the woman four times on the ph0ne. She was respectful, answered my personal questions, etc. Be careful what you chose. You know, if your going to go to the depths of your trauma from childhood, HH already screwed himself, it cant be done via video and you really do need a trained voice. Take care!


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2016)

i just want to add its highly unethical even dangerous to suggest your way is the only way. For vulnerable people out there and will do whatever they can to seek relief, its preying on people. Whenever I see this is the only way, etc, its a true sign of narcassism. Yes, narcassism. Do a video on that , narcassm in more depth HH. And any condition its not all or nothing. CBT clearly shows this is black and white thinking and delusional. I am sure people have fully recovered from DP etc without this program. So, is it the ONLY cure? I think this thinking etc is dangerous. Lets say Jane thinks its the only cure and does the program. She doesn't recover and feels worse with all of it. Jane goes on to commit suicide because she believes its the only method. THink about it, and I think people who make claims like this should be moderated or at the very least talk about what it is they are saying. and this disorganized type. lol. If that is the CASE, and can be, it takes some time with another human being etc to come to a safe place to explore all this. Some kid on a video , going through research studies and presenting it to the world via youtube, makes me sick. I may even even report this.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

tomenko said:


> Nice to know you're better and you'd already beat the beast.
> 
> As you say, if you have dp/dr just as an outcome of anxiety-OCD-depression thoughts, you'll probably get rid of it soon.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with the case if you have some serious trauma you need to solve it. You just need to know the cause. Most of the people here recovered had anxiety induced dp/dr as I read from the stories. The book "At Last a Life" says the same thing. Also many psychiatrists say it's a very common symptom of anxiety. Brain numbs itself as a defence mechanism when you are in the state of too much stress and intense anxiety. People who relapse could simply fall into a very stressful and anxious state again. For me my SSRI pooped out, I was doing a lot of drugs and I was very anxious. For this to occur, you need to stay in an anxious state for some good amount of time. And to get rid of it totally you have to be calm for a good amount of time


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

thy said:


> It is interesting. I wonder if for those who only have it from anxiety their DP feels different to those who's DP is unrelated to anxiety?


I scored 200 on the dp/dr test. Because I don't show all the symptoms of dp/dr. I just feel detachment from the world. No change in the visuals etc. It gets worse when I have existensial anxiety. But when I'm calm and shift my focus away from symptoms, stop checking reality and get rid of anxiety for a good amount of time, my dp dr fades away close to the point that I don't have it.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

hennessy said:


> I don't disagree with the case if you have some serious trauma you need to solve it. You just need to know the cause.


Trauma doesn't need to be solved - it needs to be processed. If you're dissociative and have a traumatic experience, chances are you won't process it and experience it. You'll tuck it away somewhere in your mind so you don't have to deal with it at the time. And you end up not processing it later either, because you can't remember it! However, the trauma sits inside us (hidden away) and subconsciously alters the way the think about things and the way we react. It makes us fearful of certain situations; it makes us angry about certain things; it makes us anxious - and we don't understand why - because we can't remember what happened.

As you become less dissociated, traumatic memories have their way of slowly coming to the surface in order to be processed. It's a natural process - we have an inherent need to make ourselves better and heal.

Therapists who help people with trauma slowly but carefully encourage us retrieve the dissociated (hidden) emotions and feelings we hold due to trauma and to feel what happened and let the emotions out about what happened as well as talk about the experience in a realistic logical manner - that's processing the trauma. Once we do that we can put the memories to the side and move on with our lives. This is exactly what 'normal' people do - except they process their feelings and emotions at the time and just after the traumatic experience. After that they can move on with their lives and not be stuck with it unprocessed in their bodies. Of course it will always have some impact on their lives, but nowhere near the impact as the unprocessed trauma dissociative people carry.

To give you an example of how powerful the process of dissociating is.... Last year I was bitten by a highly venomous snake (a red bellied black snake). It was night time and I accidentally stood on it in the dark - so it bit me - twice. I instantly dissociated, forgot about it and went back to bed! I woke the next morning and it took me about an hour to even vaguely remember what had happened - in fact it took about 3 days to fully remember. That's dissociation at it's best. My therapist was disappointed I dissociated so heavily (because of the circumstances), but I insisted my body knew how to cope and that's why I went back to bed and fell asleep. (Incidentally, that's what some Australian aborigine's do too - they lie down and go to sleep if they get bitten by these snakes. I didn't know that at the time though.)


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

hennessy said:


> Also many psychiatrists say it's a very common symptom of anxiety.


Many psychiatrists are naive when it comes to the dissociative disorders. Dissociation is NOT a symptom of anxiety. There're people here who have no to little anxiety who experience crippling dissociation, and besides, if it was just a symptom of anxiety, why doesn't powerful anti-anxiety medication stop it? I'd be asking your psychiatrist how much he/she REALLY knows about your disorder..... and of course they amount of experience they have in treating it....


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

for some people out there, it's all about high anxiety. sorry to tell you that. I don't mean ALL of them but ask ANYONE who has great knowledge about this stuff. It can all be induced by anxiety. I got cured from it 6 years ago just by treating my anxiety and it was gone. Again, I have times where I'm calm and happy which makes my dissociation completely go away.

And the majority of people who have shared their recovery stories here had it as an anxiety symptom. (go read them if you don't believe me)

It's known that in psychiatry, it is a common symptom of anxiety and panic attacks. it's a fact. not something to discuss about. again, I don't mean it might not be about trauma, I'm just saying there are many cases where it's just a symptom of anxiety


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

Zed said:


> Many psychiatrists are naive when it comes to the dissociative disorders. Dissociation is NOT a symptom of anxiety. There're people here who have no to little anxiety who experience crippling dissociation, and besides, if it was just a symptom of anxiety, why doesn't powerful anti-anxiety medication stop it? I'd be asking your psychiatrist how much he/she REALLY knows about your disorder..... and of course they amount of experience they have in treating it....


Also my psychiatrist knows a lot about dissociative disorders. he explained really well why I don't have it as a dissociative disorder and just as a symptom of anxiety. (and yes he mentioned he had treated a lot of dp/dr sufferers before and he suggested lamictal without me mentionaning it, I'm pretty sure he knows a little more than you do about the disorder)


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2016)

well zed. lets not get carried away. I mean a high anxiety state over time can def lead to dissocation or DP. High anxiety states over time produce adrenal fatigue, a tired mind, etc, constant flight and fight which sets the stage for one to detach. So its possible to have high anxiety and detach and have dp and it not be truly a dramatic trauma or anything that is significant. Like say mike trips on acid and freaks out , a bad trip, and is a constant state of anxiety. In that state of anxiety mike detaches, what we call DP. I guess you could say that the trip was trauma related, but the high level of anxiety that his brain could not handle could make someone detach. I don't know guys i feel like we are splitting hairs here. I highly doubt there are lots of folks who only have dissocation and no real anxiety. I mean, being dissociative is distressing in itself, not just the symptom, but losing your identity etc. Overall its kinda good to know what we are dealing with but really no need to make it more complicated and create more anxiety  Just my two cents.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

Depersonalisation is on the spectrum of dissociative disorders. It's on the lower end of the range. The spectrum covers levels of dissociation from 'normal everyday' dissociation to depersonalisation through to dissociative amnesia/fugue, DDnos, DID, and onto poly fragmented DID being the most severe. DID is not a symptom of anxiety and for the same reason neither is dp. There are so many similarities between people with dp and those with DID - you'd be amazed. yet no-one with DID would ever consider 'it's just a symptom of anxiety'. They're both on the same spectrum and rightly so.

Depersonalisation is a dissociative disorder and needs to be treated a such. Treating anxiety only won't bring about the changes necessary to work through and finally heal from overwhelming dissociation. It'll help reduce the levels of anxiety hopefully, but the automatic response to dissociate will still remain. I imagine that's why a lot of people seem to have a partial or even full recovery for a some time only to relapse when a stressful event enters their lives - because the tendency to dissociate during stressful times still remains. Weed can make people anxious or stressed which triggers the dissociation, loosing your job can do the same, breaking up with partner etc etc.. anything that stresses us out can trigger the dissociation to do its job - protect us.

There're are hundreds (if not thousands) of posts on this site alone where people talk about a stressful (or overly anxious) event entering their lives and next thing you know Bamm! - dp comes on with a vengeance. Exactly the same thing happens to people with DID - stressful event - dissociation skyrockets! And this'll keep happening until one learns how to switch the automatic response to dissociate into a different healthy response. That's what therapy does, which pills can't. Don't get me started on the psychiatric community...... 

Just my 2 cents.

PS: I'd encourage everyone here who's struggling with dp to ask themselves a couple of questions. "When do I dissociate?" And "Why do I dissociate?" I think you'll find you'll start seeing some kind of a pattern with when it happens...


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

the psychiatric community is brilliant. lol.

I might add that many therapists don't even know what DP is. I saw mine today and brought up the term "gaslighting" and he said, "whats that mean" So not impressed with the book nor the counselors I have met. I also want to add I never said that DP isn't a auto mechanism. I said, "It can be triggered by severe anxiety which sets the mechanism in place." Language can really suck on a computer.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

jus7 said:


> Language can really suck on a computer.


Ohh does it ever..

I've been saying for years someone needs to invent fonts that can express moods or emotions. Like... having a font for sarcastic remarks. We could call that one 'sarcastica' for instance 



jus7 said:


> the psychiatric community is brilliant. lol.


Have you ever seen any utube vidoes of Dr Colin Ross? He makes a lot of sense when he talks about the psychiatric community... He runs a dissociation unit (I think it is) somewhere in southern US, in Texas maybe? Anyway.. worth a look imho.


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## Zed (Jul 25, 2015)

jus7 said:


> the psychiatric community is brilliant. lol.
> 
> I might add that many therapists don't even know what DP is.


I saw my therapist today as well. I specifically asked her if depersonalisation was a symptom of anxiety. She just smiled at me (knowing we've talked about this before) and said "psychiatrists who say that are also the ones who dismiss the theory that memories can be repressed and often also support the false memory syndrome crowd." She doesn't like them at all. Nor do I.

It's amazing the split down the middle with the understanding of dp and other dissociative disorders - some say (like mine) they know exactly what dd's iare and they've successfully treated many people with it, and then we have the other side who keep telling us we don't know enough about it and there still needs to be more research done. I mean, I'm ok, and I'm happy to work with the person I do and her beliefs, but it must be super confusing for people who have just started looking for help and understanding..


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

In general sir, its common knowledge that most counselors aren't fans of drugs for the most part, and most shrinks wanna medicate lol. Maybe true they dismiss the memory stuff cause after all at the end of the day they are MD's and don't do therapy anymore but hand out drugs. Its a business and each relates to people in the way they're business does. Of course if you see a psychotherapist, the majority, they are going to say work it out with me, minimal or no drugs. Now, I can't and won't speak for all psychotherapists but that is the business. Same with the shrinks with meds. I mean this whole topic has been overblown. Over and out.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

btw, i think its great you got someone who does understand dp, all the mechanism's of dissociation, etc. Hope it works out for you. What i was implying is MOST of the psych community generally has no idea about DP etc. Even us lol, its just theories mainly and thats why we come to places like this for support. If it wasn't just a theory anymore, all of us would be at our doctors getting the pill for DP or at the very least some major psychological advancement to improve it, thus boards like this would never even exist. To be real its all heresay. But the reality is most people in the mental health field STILL don't know much about this never mind a treatment for it. So anyways, i am done, good convo, i liked it. And i think you are very bright.


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## hennessy (Apr 2, 2008)

There are too many people who get it as a symptom of severe anxiety. Ask any moderator on this forum or anyone experienced. Trauma is not the only thing. My therapist also says İ have it as a symptom of anxiety and when İ fix my anxiety, my dp fades away.


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## ToTo (Oct 6, 2015)

Weither it was caused by panic attacks, anxiety, trauma or narcissistic parents. What's the solution how to cure it? I can go on and on projecting my trumas, and I doubt that any human being on earth is free of trumas. The question now, after processing all these issues and digging deep down your emotions and then!!! How to fix it? How to be depersonalization free?


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## davinizi (Mar 9, 2016)

jus7 said:


> i just want to add its highly unethical even dangerous to suggest your way is the only way. For vulnerable people out there and will do whatever they can to seek relief, its preying on people. Whenever I see this is the only way, etc, its a true sign of narcassism. Yes, narcassism. Do a video on that , narcassm in more depth HH. And any condition its not all or nothing. CBT clearly shows this is black and white thinking and delusional. I am sure people have fully recovered from DP etc without this program. So, is it the ONLY cure? I think this thinking etc is dangerous. Lets say Jane thinks its the only cure and does the program. She doesn't recover and feels worse with all of it. Jane goes on to commit suicide because she believes its the only method. THink about it, and I think people who make claims like this should be moderated or at the very least talk about what it is they are saying. and this disorganized type. lol. If that is the CASE, and can be, it takes some time with another human being etc to come to a safe place to explore all this. Some kid on a video , going through research studies and presenting it to the world via youtube, makes me sick. I may even even report this.


 In another comment you said "it cant be done via video and you really do need a trained voice. "

yet you claim that HH is the one claming that his program is the 'only' way, which I have never heard him say btw and reading his website at the moment, I haven't come across that either in written words. Obviously you can't stand it that a person without a diploma in psychology that you apparently possess can have that much knowledge on the subject and be of any value. You arrogantly refer to him as 'some kid' in a desperate attempt to make yourself feel bigger. Kind of ironic that you try to label him as a narcissist. Not only is that far-fetched to label someone as such without knowing them personally, you should also learn the correct spelling before making a fool of yourself as a 'major in psychology'. You kind of confirm what HH has been saying all along, that a lot of therapists do not know their shit. It's the reason why I and I think many others actually avoid therapists as they too often make you feel like you're just there to big up their ego under the gaslighting disguise that you're supposedly there to get cured. But don't you dare to accurately diagnose yourself or come up with an effective treatment plan or talk about the knowledge you gained from doing your own research, or 'Dr God' feels hurt in his ego. I mean it must be really frustrating for you as a psychologist that you haven't been able to cure yourself, yet someone who doesn't have the diploma like HH has. I think you need to start with curing your jealousy first and perhaps try out HH's program, lol.


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