# Human truth



## Guest (Nov 14, 2007)

since I've been arguing nutcases for the last 2 months or so I decided to show you the truth: http://www.humantruth.info 
To those who actually read it, will become atheists, those who agree their beliefs are soly based on wishful thinking and fear will not read it....

Peace


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## christodenisto2 (Oct 13, 2007)

Copeful,

i suggest you tone the 'nutcase' shit down a bit.

Everyone is trying here. Most people (I think) are listening to you and thinking about what you say.

Surely you can see from your own experience that it is HARD to sort out the bullshit from the reality about things. It helps them if you keep bringing out the rational arguments - it doesn't help anyone when you call them names.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2007)

Thing is, I'll fucking quote one of the spiritual persons God here Osho: "don't soft talk, say things that shock people, otherwise they wont listen" maybe I'm being a little disrespectful, maybe I'm just fedup with this disorder and everything that reminds me of it.
I'll take that blame and apologize for that, all in all though IM NOT MEAN as you think.
There is reason I don't just say "ey listen to this, we are just meat and flesh, there is no soul" people would shrug it off, you GOT to start controversy to start people's minds.
It's a psychological fact.

but youll get rid of me as I leave now, I have no more to do here... I've said what I came to say, I've tried to reason with people, and even got the most spiritual advocators here to agree its all wishful thinking.
Thats enough for me, you saw the documentary yourself seeing how EVERYFUCKNG GURU has exploited their position in their life...
YOU came to me saying u had seen this documentary remember?

I understand your neeeeeeeed for some deeper meaning.
Just do this for a moment.

Go out, sit in nature, watch the sun and think of it as "god" not a personal conscious god, but God, it's the creator of earth and reason we have life here and can discuss these questions.
Worship mother earth and the sun, the sun we can't do shit about, but the nature on earth we can.
You can find just as much beauty and spirituality from natural things as deluding yourself except it's healthy and non damaging.

Like for instance MUSIC, I listen to music, I go into some sort of trance.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2007)

christodenisto2 said:


> Copeful,
> 
> Everyone is trying here. Most people (I think) are listening to you and thinking about what you say.


Oups... and here was me laughing... :roll:


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2007)

Copeful, I am an atheist myself? and I envy people who have some sort of faith/belief in a ?higher? being. From time to time this envy turns to jealously and if I?m not careful, it could turn to hate? it would seem you wasn?t careful enough or you just didn?t care about other?s feelings. (I don?t care about some people?s feelings, although I balance it out. I?m a different person in real life; I volunteer my time to help others smile. I?ll be doing a class in a hour?s time to teach two service people how to build computers, and install windows and other programs.)


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## DreamLife (Sep 16, 2007)

Copeful said:


> since I've been arguing nutcases for the last 2 months or so I decided to show you the truth: http://www.humantruth.info
> To those who actually read it, will become atheists, those who agree their beliefs are soly based on wishful thinking and fear will not read it....
> 
> Peace


I read it, I'm not an atheist. I've been atheist before, and it was hell for me emotionally and psychologically. I will never go back to that, and no one (especially not you!) is going to convince me that being atheist is better than the alternative.

You're wasting your time if you're trying to convert people who have faith to atheism. If they truly have faith, you will not be able to sway them. So stop trying! I don't get on here and try to convert you to becoming a decent human being, do I?

At least Darren helps people, do you even do that? You would be fucking amazed at what helping another person for unselfish reasons will do to your DP/DR. Amazed! It's better than any drug out there.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

oh, so I'm selfish?
Guess you haven't read the How to recover post I made?
I think it's the longest how to recover post ever written on this page, yeah that was a real selfish act.... VERY....
spending tons of time putting it together and post it on this forum, yeah very selfish reasons....

go fuck yourself, "faith in atheism" LOL. your a walkin condtraiction.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

Copeful said:


> oh, so I'm selfish?
> Guess you haven't read the How to recover post I made?
> I think it's the longest how to recover post ever written on this page, yeah that was a real selfish act.... VERY....
> spending tons of time putting it together and post it on this forum, yeah very selfish reasons....
> ...


While you say you aren't rude or angry, that is how you come across. Just as it drives people nuts to have an Evagelist ram Christianity down their throats, it is equally irritating to have an atheist ram his/her beliefs down one's throat.

Believe it or not atheism is a religion. A religion is not a "faith" or "spiritual" thing, it is a set of rules, it is a way of conducting your life your business, a philosophy.

I always use the expression, "Copeful arises every morning at 6a.m., puts his socks on the moment he gets out of the shower, has a cup of Earl Grey and leaves for work at 7am. He has done this RELIGIOUSLY for the past twenty years."

That is what religion means. Politics is religion ... e.g. communism, etc.

The problem is FUNDAMENTALISM. When someone takes something like this to an extreme.

And as I've said before you can neither prove nor DISPROVE religion. Scientists are both spirtual and non-spiritual. Some have Faith, others don't.

Also, you must look up the definition of atheist. I am called a "weak atheist" or an agnostic/atheist. Atheism only states that you do not believe in an athropomorphized God. Agnostic means you "don't know" if there is some "higher power" or not.

Yes, organized FUNDAMENTALIST religion causes problems in this world, but personal Faith is not hurting YOU or anyone else.

And again you keep referring only to Christianity. As I said, there is Islam, Hindi, and other spiritual religons. So many you can't count. I've had this debate a million times here, and lost one friend over it. No need for that. Have some respect for others.

I was raised by an atheist, my mother, a psychiatrist. She was no mother to me and didn't love me. I am not an atheist because of her. I hated that part of her, as she preached it to everyone she could get a chance to. You might guess, my father left, and she didn't have many friends. I wonder about her patients to this day.

Atheists can be good and evil, so can those of a spiritual bent, as those who practice any religion -- a set of beliefs that dictate the way they live -- atheism is a religion.

I have my old, favorite site for that. And my infamous pie-chart. Damn I should be in Pennsylvania now, but I had too much work to finish today. Leaving tomorrow for the coast 

Copeful, you come across with rage, as equally hopped up as a TV evangelist with no respect for another person's POV.

Cheers,
D


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

Dreamer's infamous Pie Chart of World Religions -- those of a "spiritual" nature...... those having to do with "faith" of some form and religion practice or ritual. NOTE, there can be individuals who are religious who have no spiritual faith, but they attend church or synagogue. This is because it is social, part of a secular/spiritual marriage, etc.

Ritual has always joined society. And as noted, faith may very well be hard-wired, but we will probably never know... the brain is so complex.









You will note that 16% of the world's population (this is not 100% accurate) is NON-THEISTIC, or A-THEISTIC, etc. Amd there are those who are RELIGIOUS who are not theistic - they go to Church, but they don't believe in Christ per se, they may have a different belief, or ...I don't know.

Atheism is a philosophy as is theism. It reflects one's POV on many matters and one may be involved in any number of rituals related to one's religion.... including Evangelism. You are spreading the word of atheism. That is your right. But it is with rage and disrespect and a lack of empathy for others. That isn't because you are an atheist, it is simply because you have a lack of empathy for others.

Unfortunate.

I like visual aides 

From http://www.adherents.com

Also read the collected readings of views on Atheism called "Atheism" edited by S.T. Joshi. Knowledge is wisdom. FUNDAMENTALISM/EXTREMISM is evil. Islam is fine by me. It is FUNDAMENTALIST/EXTREMIST ISLAM that is of concern. Live and let live. People can't really do that. Surprised the world is still her. Sigh.

Cheers,
Man I need to get out of this town, and it's FREEZING.
D


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## christodenisto2 (Oct 13, 2007)

I am really interested to know what the pie chart would look like for 18-25 year olds or 18-30 year olds for example.

I am 25, and most of my friends and acquaintances I met at university are atheist. A few are christian, a few hindu, and a few islamic, but most of the others - atheist or agnostic.

Oh, and I am in Australia by the way, so that matters.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

christodenisto2 said:


> I am really interested to know what the pie chart would look like for 18-25 year olds or 18-30 year olds for example.
> 
> I am 25, and most of my friends and acquaintances I met at university are atheist. A few are christian, a few hindu, and a few islamic, but most of the others - atheist or agnostic.
> 
> Oh, and I am in Australia by the way, so that matters.


Interesting question. You have to go to the website Adherents.com, link above. Statistics are a dicey business, but it's interesting, I am 48, and the friends I have are a hodgepodge. Some believe, some don't. Some are Christian, some Jewish, I know no one who is Muslim. I live in the MidWest in the US. I did come from a WASP background, but in sum, those who started their lives with X beliefs (folks I've known for YEARS) are generally the same as they were when I first met them.

However, it seems to me that in my generation younger people (college) rebelled, then found in later years they embraced that, or turned to some other "religion" -- and that could be Buddhism, etc.

Also, I have friends who were conservative in college who are now liberals, and friends who were liberals who are now conservative, or any combo of that.

I do know, or think I've gathered that a good number of countries outside the US are of a non-spiritual bent. There are atheists here in the US as well.

Thing is, my friends at least -- we don't go discussing our faith or lack of it. It seems for me and my friends (save some with whom I have intellectual discussions about religion) all of this is just -- personal. And if I visit someone and they go to church, I go with them. I don't care. I look like an idiot. I wasn't baptized so I can't take Communion, don't know much but the Lord's Prayer.

But this is like visiting a foreign country -- "when in Rome, do as the Romans do."

And I must say, I believe these days since there is such a backlash against ORGANIZED religion, that there are "closet believers" who would feel attacked. Or even "closet atheists." As they say, "Never talk about politics or religion at a social gathering, lol."

I only would want tolerance, of all parts of the spectrum. I see intolerance at both ends. Those of extreme faith, and those of extreme anti-faith in any type of "higher power." I see no value in extremes like that.

IMHO.
Cheers,
D


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh, and I have noticed, when you go to Church these days there are a lot of older folk. I think when someone grows old and is staring death in the face, there is comfort in a concept of life after death. But many of these people have attended Church their whole lives.

In Synagogue, I see all ages. There isn't the promise of Heaven. Heaven is "here" in the simplest sense. But there is a strong sense of community.

If you considered Islam that is extremely integrated into a person's life.

But I guarantee one thing. What you think and believe when you are young can change a bit or drastically over your lifetime, and you can flip-flop depending. Youth is when you're "finding yourself", "your identity".

This does not make your beliefs any less valid, they are what you are at a particular time.

Note: there have always been atheists -- in ancient Rome, Greece, etc. Waaaay before B.C. people thouoght Zeus or Isis or whomever was ridiculous. So atheism isn't new.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

Last thing ...

... the argument I got into with someone on the Board here, which was very unfortunate ... he was an atheist, but he was planning a full out Church wedding. I found that ... hypocritical.

However, I'm sure you've attended weddings, or are married? There is tremendous beauty in ritual like that. I am not religious and neither is my husband. We didn't want a "civil service". Instead we were married, just the two of us, dressed to the teeth, by a minister in a little chapel.

Now if we'd had a child, we wouldn't have baptized the child. My husband came from a non practising/non-believing Jewish family, I from an atheist WASP background.

My dream, and I didn't think of it at the time, is a wedding by a sea captain.

You have to agree that there is something ... wonderful and unifying in ritual. A sports game is unifying. A group dancing together. Going to a concert ... some call those things sort of "religious experiences". One gets some feeling of deep connection with other humans. I see value in that.

End of lecture 
Must log off!
D


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Copeful said:


> Go out, sit in nature, watch the sun and think of it as "god" not a personal conscious god, but God, it's the creator of earth and reason we have life here and can discuss these questions.
> Worship mother earth and the sun, the sun we can't do shit about, but the nature on earth we can.
> You can find just as much beauty and spirituality from natural things as deluding yourself except it's healthy and non damaging.
> 
> Like for instance MUSIC, I listen to music, I go into some sort of trance.


What have we been arguing about this whole time? :lol:


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2007)

the difference is, I talk about whats real, just becausethere is no spiritual things and all things are physical and real.... Does that make nature less beautiful or love less real? no, i think opposite....

its great if u cherriss these things too, but do not lay claim on it like youve created it Miss God. CAUSE IF UR TRUELY GOD; HEAL THIS FUCKING FORUM INSTEAD OF FILLING UR EGO.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2007)

CECIL said:


> Copeful said:
> 
> 
> > Go out, sit in nature, watch the sun and think of it as "god" not a personal conscious god, but God, it's the creator of earth and reason we have life here and can discuss these questions.
> ...


Copeful, this is what many people do, MANY. They find the spiritual in the beauty of life. I honestly don't know what you're carrying on about.

But I'll say this 800 times. If the need for spirituality exists, say it is an evolutionary adaptation, then the discussion is moot. How can you get angry with people who are programmed to have faith. This would be like getting angry that someone has green eyes.

Also, again, personal Faith, I'd say among many of MY peers is just as described above.

The fact that you said at some point "all of my friends are atheists", well all that proves is that you hang with atheists, and you have other similar interests in common.

Again, why try to "covert" people to atheism. Though I am an atheist essentially, I get sort of ticked off by your evangelizing about it. And blaming the worlds' ills on various faiths/religions is far too simple.

We are programmed for survival, we are agressive, we are territorial, we are ruled by instinct. Religion is part of who we are. Even if my pie chart isn't completely accurate it still reflects that there is NO culture on this planet, past or present, that doesn't have some form of religion, ritual, spiritual, etc.

If you think of Native American Indians (and I don't know much of their religion), I believe they "worship" nature. Many cultures do this.

I honestly don't know what the problem is.

Live and let live.

Peace,
D


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Well said


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2007)

I'll second that CECIL. *Thumbs up to Dreamer*.


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