# I got my lab results back!



## DerealizedDutchie (Oct 26, 2018)

hi all,

I just got my lab results back and i wanted to show it to you, because discussing it might benefit more than one person in the end.










As you can see, my serotonin level is HIGHLY elevated and the catecholamines are all diminished. Serotonin is supposed to be in a range of 100-225 and mine is 502..

I have never taken any medication whatsoever to increase my serotonin.

My current symptoms are the following:

- Derealization (life outside my house looks like a joke, a dreamworld, as if i'm on marijuana. It's strangely intense and i dont feel connected to any environment whatsoever nor do i feel a connection to persons or objects)

- Tinnitus (24/7)

- Extreme fatigue

- Digestion problems/gut issues/leaky gut

- Depression/no motivation/no ambition/life has no meaning at the moment

It really shocked me that my serotonin is that high.. i thought it would be very low to be honest

I'm seeing my doctor on thursday, but i'm hoping someone here could shed a light on the serotonin part, or maybe others who did a similar test as well.

Cheers


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

Strange results considering you are not on medication. Are you a vegetarian by any chance? (just thinking of reasons other than DP). Wonder if low protein could lower dopamine etc although I don't know how much merit these types of results have as I know they aren't standard practice. The more obvious reason would be the depersonalization as dopaine is involved with the reward/emotion system.

I noticed benefit when I took the SNRI effexor and have recently started Imipramine which increases serotonin and norepinephrine which has given me some benefit so far (only 4 weeks in). Let us know what your doctor says


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## DerealizedDutchie (Oct 26, 2018)

I'm not a vegetarian. And to add to that, i'm eating very clean and balanced so i don't think that has anything to do with it. It's actually pretty strange though, because serotonin is for roughly 90% produced in the gut and i have severe gut problems (diagnosed with leaky gut syndrome), so it's more logical to think that my serotonin would be low.


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## Laurany152 (Mar 24, 2014)

Well maybe the digestive problems are producing too much serotonin instead of not enough. That would seem to be the most logical assumption. I'd be interested in what your Doctor says. Keep us updated. Also, how did you get your doctor to do blood tests on all these neurotransmitters? I've never had a psychologist do lab work. Should I request one? what kind of test is this specifically called?

Sometimes I feel like such a fool. Like should I have been tested for these forever ago? I didn't know serotonin levels were connected to DR/DP symptoms.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

There's a reason why these tests aren't standard practice. Despite all the talk about mental illnesses being caused by "chemical imbalances", there's very very little evidence to support it. What's more, we don't really know how any neurochemicals really work in the brain, what their function is, or what the ideal range of values truly truly are. At least, there is no scientific consensus to any of these issues.

In other words, these tests don't have much practical value in medicine. They don't reliably predict symptoms of any mental health issue or indicate which treatments will be most beneficial. At least not yet.


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## Chris90 (Aug 1, 2018)

DerealizedDutchie said:


> hi all,
> 
> I just got my lab results back and i wanted to show it to you, because discussing it might benefit more than one person in the end.
> 
> ...


Assuming leaky gut syndrome allows more serotonin to leak into the bloodstream, your results make perfect sense. High levels of serotonin can produce some of the symptoms you describe, especially extreme fatigue and a sense of derealization. I've been on 20mg of Lexapro for 6 months now, and will begin weaning off of it February 1st because of these exact symptoms. My psychologist, who has successfully treated patients for DPDR, confirmed my suspicion that most of my remaining symptoms are being caused by the Lexapro. He also recommended I get the same test as you did. I think if you get the leaky gut syndrome under control and continue eating healthy, you'll be back to normal quickly.


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## DerealizedDutchie (Oct 26, 2018)

@Laurany it's a private practitioner and she is a general health doctor not a psychologist. She works closely with a German laboratorium who do all kinds of tests. You can actually just go to their website and order one yourself, depending on where you live of course. The lab is called Pro Health Medical.

@Chip well i have to disagree, because it is known what functions neurotransmitters have in the body and it is known what a diminished or elevated level can do to the body. I agree with the fact that solely based on this results one cannot say what therapy to take, but it's actually pretty useful to know if you want to take medication, because now i know an serotonin reuptaker is out of the picture for me.

And besides that, there is also no scientific consensus about therapy nor medicine regarding to dpdr. So it seems pretty useful to me to compare neurotransmitter values with people who have the same symptoms and maybe find a link between it. I think it's too early stage to disregard any type of disbalance in the body.

@Chris well that actually makes a lot of sense, thanks for the insight! And yes, healing my gut is now priority and i hope it takes away a lot of symptoms. I also read about a gastro-intestinal dysbiosis and that it can cause neurotransmitters to go off-balance as well. So i really think healing my gut should make a lot of difference.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

I disagree with your first paragraph (in your last post directed at me), but mostly agree with your second. Comparing these elements with others who experience your same symptoms is often how progress happens. At least it's a start when you don't have any concrete answers.


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## Aridity (Jun 12, 2011)

This is very interesting to say the least, maybe it doesn't t show an immediate treatment options it does show some insight that there's actually some unbalance in your neurotransmitters. I am Dutch as well,if you could PM. I'd like to get in touch with you and share some knowledge etc, if you're open to that.


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## seven (Oct 3, 2015)

I wonder how they measured that cause there are no any neurotransmitters tests according to official medicine.


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## Laurany152 (Mar 24, 2014)

seven said:


> I wonder how they measured that cause there are no any neurotransmitters tests according to official medicine.


what are you talking about? they can do blood tests to measure them.


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## seven (Oct 3, 2015)

It's about neurotransmitters levels in the brain not in the blood. That's why psychiatrists don't do any blood tests.

They don't even measure those in normal lab tests. Those results are from some alternative health medicine practicioners. If am correct you can only measure blood serotonin levels becuase elevated are sign of some disease.


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

Yeh blood levels don't reflect neurotransmitter levels (ie in the brain/nervous system). Although adrenaline is also called epinephrine, the difference is that when it is in the blood it acts differently (and is called adrenaline) and if levels are elevated it is clinically relevant. Epinephrine and Norepinephrine in the nervous system is thought to be involved in neurogenesis and involved with depression.

So at the moment it can't really be said that if blood levels are elevated for example, does that mean that so is the nervous system? Or is it being shunted out of the nervous system into the blood?

They don't really know what they mean and there really isn't any solid evidence how the blood levels link to neurotransmitter levels in the brain. The claim is they are the same, but the proof of that isn't great as we struggle to objectively measure neurotransmitters in the brain.


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## forestx5 (Aug 29, 2008)

The National Center for Biotechnology Information published a paper reviewing Urinary Neurotransmitter Testing. Key scientific claims promoting the validity of the urinary neurotransmitter testing (UNT) model applications are discussed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3818889/

"Urinary serotonin and urinary dopamine assays are not assays of serotonin and dopamine that have been in the central nervous system. Serotonin and dopamine do not cross the blood-brain barrier."

In other words, having gasoline in your lawnmower's gas can is of no use in starting your automobile.

You can read the conclusion of this paper for yourself, but I can summarize: The data is meaningless for diagnosing

neurological illness.


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## Laurany152 (Mar 24, 2014)

Well the more you learn! I thought they could do blood tests to measure them. So if they can't really measure them in the blood stream then how can they say that you have a chemical imbalance in your brain like with Bipolar? This all seems so hopeless.


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## DerealizedDutchie (Oct 26, 2018)

I did my own research as well, and it is true that blood levels don't reflect the levels in the brain. I'm actually not sure what one can conclude from the test i did. It must mean something that the levels in my blood are out of proportion. My doctor is actually a bit of a quack (like all of the health care practitioners i encountered so far) and she only talked about getting my gut to work properly again, so there's that. I dont think she actually possesses a lot of knowledge on the whole neurotransmitter thing, she just prescribed some sort of herb to up my dopamine lol.

And yes Laurany, it really does feel hopeless. I still don't know precisely what's wrong with me and with me many others. It's really astounding that there are almost no professionals available on this matter.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Laurany152 said:


> Well the more you learn! I thought they could do blood tests to measure them. So if they can't really measure them in the blood stream then how can they say that you have a chemical imbalance in your brain like with Bipolar? This all seems so hopeless.


They can say that because nobody prevents them from saying that.

And if you listen closely to the commercials for psychotropic medications, they use a bunch of weasel words like "is believed to affect" and the like.

The fact is, psychiatry uses the meds they do for these various conditions because they seem to work for a lot of people. In fact, many people end up being diagnosed for a particular condition merely because they experimented with a drug for that condition and found relief. Theories about chemical imbalances are based a backwards-thinking approach that these meds are supposed to affect this or that chemical, so perhaps the original illness is a lack of such and such chemical. There is actually much less real science involved in psychiatry than you are led to believe.

I rant a lot about psychiatry on this forum. I wouldn't have such a problem with the field if: 1) they were more honest about what they do, what they know and do not know, and 2) they didn't have the power to impose their diagnoses and treatments on people against their will.


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## Cali123 (Jan 5, 2019)

How do you know if you have a leaky gut? And would probiotics help?


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## DerealizedDutchie (Oct 26, 2018)

I did a test which involved me sending a poop sample and another blood test. The first one showed me that my good bacteria were depleted and that my mucous membrane was VERY irritated, those two are very important for normal and healthy digestion and overall gut health.

The second test was a food sensitivity test based on LgG anti-bodies. It showed A LOT of high values for foods that arent even that inflammatory, such as eggs and a lot of vegetables like carrot and many more. This means that when i'm eating a egg, it will not be digested properly and some particles will enter the bloodstream and as a result will activate my immune system. In the end you're dealing with a chronic immune system activation which on its own can cause a lot of diseases. So it is very important to eliminate foods that cause inflammation for you. And besides that there are foods that are inflammatory on its own like Potatoes, Gluten, Dairy, Nightshades.

So if you have troubles with your stool (i went to the toilet like once a week) or have a lot of abdominal pain/bloating you should definitely consider going to your doctor and ask for those tests.

And yes probiotics will work for replenishing your good bacteria, but you also have to repair the mucous membrane and the gut lining itself. L-Glutamine is one of the best amino acids known for repairing the gut.


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## seven (Oct 3, 2015)

Leaky gut is also medically unrecognized condition. I would be careful with those kind of diagnoses.


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## DerealizedDutchie (Oct 26, 2018)

Well i know they got mine right


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

I've started dreaming again since being on Imipramine. The good thing with remembering dreams is you know you slept well as it is the last stage of the sleep cycle I believe and deep sleep is before them. I am unsure what to make of dreams but they seem important to me. Something that is often thrown away as irrelevant but mine have been scary and vivid recently. My girlfriend had to wake me up from yelling lol (this has only happened before on mirtazapine). And when that happened before it came with a period of improved DP/DR symptoms. Only mildly improved but still


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## Broken (Jan 1, 2017)

Yeh it was an amazing drug for me the first week as I slept amazing, but as the dose on mirtazapine went up I felt it did the opposite which made me hyperaware and then groggy as I couldn't sleep. Was weird, and also messed with my short term memory as is kind of expected with drugs that are antihistamines.


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## MyBattle (Oct 23, 2018)

There are no reliable tests for neurotransmitters in the brain. This test is probably done by urine or blood which is not reliable. As for the hormones and other stuff it's different...


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