# The Amen Clinic



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Has anyone actually been to such a clinic? And if so, what came of it?

-university girl


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2004)

Just wanted to say I enjoyed your website.I think the photo of you and your Mom is lovely.

About the ridgeback dog,did you get one?
To be honest I don't like this bread of dog.Perhaps you have met a nice one.Myself,I've had a few very nasty encounters with them.
One of them was living close by and attacked my dog and several other people's dogs.

It's possible it might be just the individual dog but it seems they can be aggressive with other dogs.

Anyway,it is a very beautiful place where you live.
I'm impressed with your studies,wow.You must be smart.
I can see why you would prefer working out doors though.

Best Shelly


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

did you ever find anyone who has been to an Amen Clinic? I've been reading his book about Anxiety and Depression and found it very informative. My counselor thinks I should go to one of his clinics, but it costs like $3,000!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

did you ever find anyone who has been to an Amen Clinic? I've been reading his book about Anxiety and Depression and found it very informative. My counselor thinks I should go to one of his clinics, but it costs like $3,000!


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

i just wanted to say that University Girl is pretty hot



no disrespect of course


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

i just wanted to say that University Girl is pretty hot



no disrespect of course


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Shelly, no ridgeback yet. Hopefully soon. I think whether a dog is vicious or not depends on how well it is socialized when it is young. Thanks for the comments about my website.

Feministcat, no I still have yet to find someone who has been to the Amen Clinic. Still waiting on that...

Soulbrotha, thanks.  Sure wish I felt that way. How come I didn't get any hugs in return then under my "Hugs for everyone" post? Hmm? :wink:

-university girl


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Shelly, no ridgeback yet. Hopefully soon. I think whether a dog is vicious or not depends on how well it is socialized when it is young. Thanks for the comments about my website.

Feministcat, no I still have yet to find someone who has been to the Amen Clinic. Still waiting on that...

Soulbrotha, thanks.  Sure wish I felt that way. How come I didn't get any hugs in return then under my "Hugs for everyone" post? Hmm? :wink:

-university girl


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

^ you didn't get any hugs because its the internet and its impossible to give you a hug.

lol

i dunno


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

^ you didn't get any hugs because its the internet and its impossible to give you a hug.

lol

i dunno


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

I'll second Soul Brotha's notion...I've always thought that University Girl is good looking! So are her friends, from what I see on her website. Soul Brotha and I need to hang out with you and your friends! 

Kelson


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

I'll second Soul Brotha's notion...I've always thought that University Girl is good looking! So are her friends, from what I see on her website. Soul Brotha and I need to hang out with you and your friends! 

Kelson


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

Kelson is tryna get is PLAYA on i see............

i'll say no more

lol

Peace


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2004)

Kelson is tryna get is PLAYA on i see............

i'll say no more

lol

Peace


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

nah...I'm just statin a fact from an observation! Nothin wrong with lookin :lol: Holla,

Kelson


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

nah...I'm just statin a fact from an observation! Nothin wrong with lookin :lol: Holla,

Kelson


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Still no one been here? I'm considering going but doing the cheaper scan. But I wonder, once I get the results, then what? They must have done SPECT scans on those with DP. Wonder how we can find out. I recall from Dr. Simeon's DP paper they did PET scans but the results seemed to be inconsistant. So... once it is determined which parts of the brain are not functioning normally, then what? That is my question.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Uni Girl, 
Well, then they medicate you based on experience. If you have an underactive prefrontal cortex, then you may need ADD meds. If you have an underactive prefrontal cortex, but a limbic system which is on fire, you may just be depressed. If you have an overactive cingulate gyrus, then you probably have OCD and need an SSRI. And if your temporal and parietal lobes are getting too much or too little blood....your DPed. Or you have huge anger problems. I went to the Amen Clinic, and those were the lobes where there were problems. They immediately got me started on an anticonvulsant, and its totally worth it. Go out there if you can. Its worth 3000 dollars to get a life again. There is another guy who runs a website called Crazy Meds who was also at the clinic. Just google his website. He has excellent information about meds as well.....the best on the net, I believe. Its second only to a PDR.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Homeskooled,

Thanks for your knowledge. I wonder though, if they find that a certain part of the brain is not functioning up to par, are there drugs that can target certain parts of the brain? SSRI's, for example, will target the reuptake of serotonin in the entire brain. Just curious. Seriously considering saving for a SPECT scan.

Thanks again!


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Uni, 
All they can do with the SPECT is give you specific medicines which will bring the specific lobe's metabolism into the normal target range. Sure serotonin will be increased all over the brain. But that will DECREASE the metabolism of the cingulate gyrus. Why? Because your thought patterns as a whole dictate your brain's blood flow, metabolism, etc....and when you use an SSRI, obsessive thoughts decrease and so does your use of your cingulate gyrus, which moderates your attention span. Anticonvulsants will course through your veins to every cell in your body as well, but some work better for epilepsy in certain lobes than others. Even things which target specific bodily organs eventually reach your whole body. Its just important that you get it to affect the correct area as well. I was just reading tonight, and supposedly they are working on a Viagra-like pill to awaken sexual desire, which may be on the market next year. It supposedly works directly on the limbic system. Thats probably the most direct effect I've heard of beside the drug Ritalin, which directly affects the release of neurotransmitters from the basal ganglia. Dr. Amen's work is very specific. You should try buying one or several of his books. They explain his clinical experience and theories in great detail.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Homeskooled said:


> I went to the Amen Clinic, and those were the lobes where there were problems. They immediately got me started on an anticonvulsant, and its totally worth it. Go out there if you can. Its worth 3000 dollars to get a life again.


Homeskooled, 
isn't Klonopin an anticonvulsant, and already the standard prescribed benzo for DP treatment? why pay $3000 to be prescribed a different anticonvulsant? just curious....and too broke to afford a SPECT :wink:


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2005)

I read somewhere about a case of a rat. Scientist monitored the rats brain while it learned to find it's way through a maze to get to the food. Once the way was memorized and the part of the brain responsible for storing the memory was identified and recorded they surgically removed it. Then they started a repeat of the experience and each time the rat memorized the way to the food that area of the brain was then removed. They eventually realized that the mormory of navigating through the maze could be located all over the brain.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Rula, 
Well, technically, Lamictal is the standard anticonvulsant for DP treatment. Klonopin is okay, but in epileptics, its anticonvulsant effect may only last for a few weeks or a few months because of tolerance. If you cant afford it, you dont really have to head out to the Amen Clinic as long as you know that his standard treatment are several prominent anticonvulsants like Neurontin, Tegretol, Trileptal, and Lamictal. But it can be worth it to originally diagnose the underlying problems. I had an over-active cingulate gyrus as well as incredibly poor perfusion of my left temporal lobe and bilateral parietal lobe. So the extra information helps, as well as his tips, such as NOT taking SSRIs when you have a temporal lobe issue. It seems to exacerbate them.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Homeskooled said:


> Dear Rula,
> Well, technically, Lamictal is the standard anticonvulsant for DP treatment. Klonopin is okay, but in epileptics, its anticonvulsant effect may only last for a few weeks or a few months because of tolerance.


thanks again homeskooled,
but i'm not an epileptic, i have DP. klonopin's anticonvulsant properties seem to work fine for most DP'ed ppl. i understand that you learn a lot more info with the SPECT, so few questions...how long have you been on Dr. Amen's prescribed treatment, which anticonvulsant was it? and would you say that you're now DP-Free/close to be free?

I'd start saving my money now to have a life again too. thks!!

-rula


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Rula, 
Thats the point. Its the anticonvulsant properties that work for people with DP. Its not the fact that its a benzo, or just because its Klonopin. And I think alot of people just take it because its Klonopin, because it "works" for DP. But if it doesnt cure you, and it only partially alleviates your symptoms, as it seems to for most people with DP, where else do you turn for relief? If your thinking it helps because its a benzo, well, your headed down a rough path. But if you correctly guess that it helped because its an anticonvulsant, that opens up a new set of opportunities. I dont think its coincidence that DP mimics temporal lobe epilepsy to the point that the symptomology is almost interchangeable. I dont think its coincidence that the two most widely used anti-DP treatments are for epileptics. If you dont have percievable spikes on an EEG as a DPed person, I'll bet alot of money that you'll have subclinical kindling in the temporal area.

I was put on Trileptal after leaving the clinic. I was also told to exercise 4-5 days a week for a half-hour, eat equal parts protein and carbs in my meals, to take a b vitamins, vitamin c and e, and to take 2000 mg of omega three fatty acids a day. I was also told to start on Zoloft and a memory drug called Reminyl if the Trileptal affected my memory. I never had to start those two. In any event, my DP is gone now, and I dont take Trileptal. I think that I dont really need it because I'm hypothyoid right now. But if it ever comes back, I'll definitely start on a regimen again. Good luck

Peace
Homeskooled


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

I thought the general current synopsis of meds is that none really work for dp/dr? I thought Sinai was resorting to antihistamines? I am confused. I am also confused homeskooled about those that say the "the temporal lobe school of people" are off base but yet you say the interchangeable symptoms are not coincidence. I know all of this is in research, and I know that a few get help with different meds, but homeskooled says he is cured by an anticonculsant, I was told by an expert on dp to never take one becasue they are hogwash , Sinai is looking at antihistamines and London is still playing with ssri's in combo with whatever else. At least this is how I gather it. And I am still confused. But sometimes dp/dr people are confused.
jft


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Jft, 
Who told you that the "temporal lobe" school of thought was way off base - a doctor? I wouldnt be surprised. You raise a good point. Lamictal had some success- a 40 percent improvement rate in one study. But thats a number that could be improved upon quite a bit. Yes, Periactin is one of the next drugs to be tried, but I think that Daphne Simeon is just fishing for anything at this point. If I were her, I would be trying Tegretol next. Its the only medicine ever proven to put a dent in the psychiatric symptoms of people with TLE. Your about as confused as anyone else- actually, scratch that, you seem less confused. At least your up to date and understand the different schools of thought. For my part, though, I'll stick with the temporal lobe school.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

jft, 
i don't think you're confused at all. yes, lamictal only had a relatively small success rate, so i don't think anticonvulsants are the answer, at least not for everyone. last i heard trials with lamictal were being abandoned, so i'm not sure how that 40% number is going to improve homeskooled.

Periactin is not being tested for its anti-histamine properties, instead for its anti-serotonin properties. logic being is that if LSD/marijuana are serotonin agonists, then testing with an anti-agonist might lead somewhere. maybe that's "fishing", but if anticonvulsants research lead anywhere solid, Mt. Sinai wouldn't be still fishing.

how come Dr. Amen doesn't publish his own cure/research on DP/DR? or did he and i'm just totally ignorant? 

-rula


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Homeskooled It astounds me that if the 40% number is correct in all aspects that they all are not going whole hog with anticonvulsants research.

I had pm'd you but maybe it never arrived, but the jsit of it was that when I first came across dp years ago I began to read all the journal info I could find...literally went from university to university perusing med libraries before internet was available...and found that yes the tle symptoms were interchangable and that many authors were exploring this avenue. I then found a doctor out of Emory that wrote three articles on dp and I liked his material so much I wrote him, and he called me. His first words to me were "the tle people are out of their minds" and are barking up the wrong tree. He told me not to pay attention to that literature. So I never did, until you showed up..Hee hee.

It is indeed amazing about some of the similiarities of dp and tle.

I am glad that you are pursueing this and am interested in your progress.

jft


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Thanks rula. That is interesting about lsd and pot and its role (theory) in dp/dr research. Could you tell me more? I am a sponge for info.
jft


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

i guess their theories involve the 3 drugs that have dp/dr-like symptoms, lsd, marijuana, and ketamine. this is from a short phone conversation with Dr. Simeon last week, so I wish i had more details.

basically the first two drugs release serotonin, so they're trying out Periactin for it's 5-ht1 and 5-ht3 antagnoist properties. Ketamine is a NMDA antagnosit, hence the choice for Seromycin, and NMDA agonist. I totally agree with homeskooled, sounds a lot like fishing.

btw, they just published a new paper stating that they found SSRI's to be totally ineffective in the treatment of dp/dr.

oddly enough, my dp doesn't really feel like any of those trips! feels more like being wired on cocaine. i guesss i'm screwed. lol.

-rula


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Jft, 
Sorry, I dont think I got your PM! I think this happened to me once before on the new site. The stupid thing is that Daphne Simeon isnt pursuing this as an epileptic or kindling syndrome. She's pursuing this one neurotransmitter at a time. She chose to use Lamictal strictly because it limits glutamine activity in the brain, since patients exposed to Ketamine, a glutamine agonist, tend to complain of DP-like states. Since that didnt work well enough, she's moving on to limiting serotonin in the brain, with Periactin. It seems like a really helter skelter approach to me. As far as I can tell, there's never been any research done to compare DP states and TLE and most importantly, no clinical trials to document the effects of the range of anticonvulsants on it. As for Dr. Amen, I didnt even tell him I had depersonalization, so I dont think he'll publish about it any time soon. But thats the beauty of a scan - you dont have to have a name for your problem. You can see it and treat it as a physical problem, not a DSM-IV label. But he has published alot about temporal lobe problems. You can read some of his abstracts at brainplace.com, or get one of his books from your local library. Later!

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2005)

You guys know I'm of the Psychoanalytic school, but I do have a few (very non-professional) thoughts on this.

Lamictal, like other anti-convulsants such as Depakote and Tegratol, have had VERY good effects on lots of mental symptoms that are not seizures at all. They work on manic/depressive episodes, they also stablize moods in general - leveling out the person's psychic temperature enough to allow other symptoms, like dp, to reduce. Don't be misled by the word "anti-convulsant" - many psych drugs were originally invented to do ONE thing, then it was discovered they also work very well on others.

Also re Temporal Lobe symptoms. Although I DO think dp is sourced from psychological origins, there is always a PHYSICAL component to any mental symptom. The state of altered consciousness that dp creates is VERY similar to reports of TLE. Both include delusional thinking and feelings of deja vu, jamais vu, shape/distance distortions and a loss of sense of self (or the opposite: sometimes a GRAND sense of self, an oceanic kind of delusion)

Regardless of whether or not DP is something akin to TLE, the aspects of the brain and aspects of thought are very very similar. My hunch is that the same area of the brain that produces the physical experience of TLE is also used in the induced trance state of DP. There is DEFINITELY a connection between the two. And learning more about TLE and the parts of the brain involved in its states would logically tell us something about the altered state of consciousness of dp. Any professional who disagrees with that strongly is a little scarey, lol


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

Liked your thoughts Janine, quite a bit.

I swear someday when this is finally understood, that we will all find out that all of us had an answer in this, whether it be psychoanalytical, cognitive, behavioral, neuroligical, pharmacolgical, new age, spiritual, or whatever we want to add to the list. Seems all our bents have validity in trying to ascertain our suffering. And I would bet my Minnesota fishouse that I am right. For it all seems so interconnected....the body and the mind and the soul.
jft


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2005)

After reading your posts, wonder if I shoudl give it a try with Lamictal, for real....

Even if I am scared to death that I will go worse *lately I feel less myself, less derealization but I don't find myself in the world).

SHould I continue, even if I feel worse since many days, I have panic attacks and feel not myself? Maybe it's because I have a new med and I need to acclimate to this med? I feel like I say anything and after it's like it wasn't me who said the things. Very bizarre.... but maybe not related to Lamictal.

It's been 2 weeks since I take Lamictal 12,5 mg, then I upgrade thursday at 25 mg, and I don't know if it's related or not, but I was VERY ill ALL THE NIGHT, throwing up8 times, and I was ill since friday at 6 PM. I called the pharmacist and he said it was probably not related, but my psy told me to go back at 12,5 mg. We'll see thursday.

Homeskooled, do you think Lamictal can make people ill (throwing up), etc.?

C xxx


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Cynthia, '
I dont think so, but I dont have my PDR with me at the moment. I dont recall it being on the list of adverse side effects. Perhaps anxiety or the flu, it being the season for it? I would definitely try 25 since this is where the first good mental effects can be felt. Good luck.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## [rula] (Jan 16, 2005)

Cynthia, 
I googled it real quick and found this "The most commonly observed (=5%) adverse experiences seen in association with LAMICTAL during adjunctive therapy in adults and not seen at an equivalent frequency among placebo-treated patients were: dizziness, ataxia, somnolence, headache, diplopia, blurred vision, nausea, *vomiting*, and rash."

I would stick to what your psych said for now, and stay at the lower dose. but i'm not a doctor.

-rula


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear Cynthia, 
I agree with Rula - stick with the dosing your psych gives you. Dont give up on the Lamictal yet though. If he feels you can tolerate 25, then try that again in the future. I guess that Paxil can cause upset stomach as well, so you may want to ask the doctor about that if you've stepped it up recently as well. Good luck with the dosing.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2005)

Hi,

I am very disappointed. Yet it's 4 AM and I have insomnia - even with Klonopin. I took my 12.5 mg and after began to have nausea and cramps. I didn't have nausea with my 3 months Paxil use. I don'y know what to do, it's very rare to me to have nausea and horrible insomina.

I even took a larger dose of Klono, usually it does the trick, not at all! Stomach is upset and I am awake and DP.

I am sad because if I give u Lamictal how will I heal?  All researches says that SSRI never cure dp. WHat will I do??? And Paxil by himself dosnt cure dr, I tried it 3 months. Just help for anxiety and depression a bit, but time lapses and dr, not really.

Call me naive but I don't know what to do.

I also have constant monologue in my head, that doesn't help me to sleep. What is scaring me is that I don't know where those thoughts come from, it doesn't make sense. It's like I am talking to myself and sometimes - don't call me schizo! - it'S other voices, like if I remember sentences of a movie I saw.

Does it happens to other people???

K


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Cynthia, the symptoms you are describing here (inner monologue keeping you up at night and the time lapses) are EXACTLY what Paxil got rid of for me :!: Are you still on Paxil? If so, what dose? Sounds like you should keep trying Paxil. I had insomnia and time lapses for years until Paxil. It almost completely got rid of both. Also, can I suggest something like Yoga which incorportates the breath? This seems to be the only form of relaxation that helped me.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Uni-g,

Since Paxil I really have a bad time remembering what I did in the day before. Really it's scary. My mon asked me what I did yesterday and I have a blanck. I just don't remember, any mental picture or what. I asked my doc if it's normal or what. I hate that, it's like living day by day w/o any memory of past events.

Does Paxil do that to memory?

Important to me to know.

I wonder if Anafranil and others TCA affects less the memory.

C xxx


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi Uni-g,

Since Paxil I really have a bad time remembering what I did in the day before. Really it's scary. My mon asked me what I did yesterday and I have a blanck. I just don't remember, any mental picture or what. I asked my doc if it's normal or what. I hate that, it's like living day by day w/o any memory of past events.

Does Paxil do that to memory?

Important to me to know.

I wonder if Anafranil and others TCA affects less the memory.

C xxx


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Cynthia,

I'm not sure if Paxil does this to memory. I often have a hard time remembering what I did the day before but I don't let it bother me. My memory was poor before the Paxil.

Are you still on Paxil?
What dose?
For how long now?


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi,

I am on Paxil since 1 months and 1 week, I upgraded to 20 mg since 3 days I think (!). Argh and this nausea won't calm down. I hate that!!! :evil: I KNOW it's not paxil, I took it 3 months before.

I don't know what to do. I don't know if I would be better with Anafranil, but I have trouble to let go Paxil because it sorts of calm me sometimes, and without it, (withdrawal) is horrible and I feel more than depressed. So...

Thanks for reading me.

C


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