# To The Fully and Partially Recovered: Do you still get instrusive thoughts?



## ChrisPA (Dec 22, 2009)

Things have been going round and round in the same typical DP loop for me since the onset of this condition over a year ago now, and quite frankly I am so sick of it. Every time I think I am getting better, and learning to accept the DP I have for what it truly is (habitual negative thought processes)I end up getting DP/DR thoughts that bring me right back to the beginning. I am not writing this to be negative. That accomplishes nothing and would be counter productive. However, I am finding myself to be frustrated at times with this whole thing. After an intense 4 months at the onset of my DP/DR I began to not eliminate but alleviate the DP/DR after reading "Hope And Help For Your Nerves" by Dr. Claire Weeks and other positive posts on this forum. I went 3 months last summer having no intense anxiety or DP/DR moments. I still had the thoughts, but the physical symptoms of DP were gone, and even the thoughts didn't really bother me at that time. Then one day just like when this whole thing started in the first place, one day the thoughts did bother me, and once again I was back in this loop.

I have since that time gone up and down with this whole thing. I've gone days, even weeks, where I don't really think about DP/DR or it's accompanying thoughts. On those days if I do think about them I can shrug them off and get on with my days. But then there are other times where the thoughts take over, and control everything I am doing basically. This typically happens on the weekends or in the evenings. Which, of course is when I am not working. When I am at work or busy doing anything else I am rarely if ever bothered by DP/DR. I just don't have time to think about it. However, it's impossible to be busy all day everyday, and not being able to live comfortably in the moments where I am not fully engaged in work or an activity is severely reducing the quality of my life. So looking back on this past year and 4 months when this all began, I did realize why this is happening to me, and I have found ways to deal with it for the most part. Things such as taking supplements, eating a healthy diet, exercising etc. But... I don't want to settle with just dealing with it. For all of those who have either recovered, and/or completely eliminated the intrusive thoughts or at least have kept them at a manageable state for a significant amount of time do you have any thoughts regarding this?

I have come so far since this all started, and I am thankful for that. I rarely if ever get the physical symptoms or the feeling of DP/DR anymore. But I do still have generalized anxiety produced by thinking intrusive DP/DR thoughts, which occasionally cause panic attacks. I have read many different methods to stop the thoughts such as acceptance no matter what, reverse psychology such as encouraging the thoughts to do their worst, as well as some others. Although these things have helped, they haven't solved the problem entirely. I am just stuck in this DP/DR thought pattern and would appreciate any suggestions to help find the way out. Not just for me but for anyone in general on this site that is looking for some guidance as it relates specifically to the thought patterns of DP/DR, not so much the feeling.


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## alphaman (Nov 4, 2005)

I can really relate to what you are describing.

I have not had a fully fledged 'DP/DR' existential panic attack for many weeks (if not months) however I have thought about the 'concept' and memory of it many times. I am still attracted to the questions around the nature of conciousness, time, space, universe etc: always have been. In fact I joked to my GF the other day about how blissful life was until I started to ask questions (about age 7 or8?). I regularly read european critical theory (foucault etc) because I find it interesting and part of me mentally gets really bored otherwise! So, a strange situation where thinking too much can lead to ego collapse and DP, but at the same time, deep and provocative analysis of culture and the world I hanker after.

I do believe there is a strong anxiety component to DP/DR... but there is a spiritual one as well. As I get older, I shift in my beliefs. Is there an ultimate truth? Well no... I don;t think there is! This is a concept. Is the state of conciousness of DP more 'real' or insightful than the state of conciousness of having a shit? NO....I don;t think it is any more! I know I can't explain the mystery of existence - but more and more I realise I don't really know anything. Somewhere in this is a very positive creative potential.

Everyday culture gives us very little when dealing with certain types of consciousness and thought process. I've said in my other posts, energy healing works very well for me, and generally taking my thoughts less seriously. We deserve to be safe in our own minds. Kava may be worth exploring as well.

Sometimes I wonder though if Dp/Dr is like an alarm system to oneself that one is going up the wrong tree...somehow. Its not REALLY about existence or the thoughts... our whole concept of truth/reality is probably so far off base that the question of nothing/something/existence/nonexistence/perception/quantum physics, to a higher level being, is just meaningless or silly. Its just a construct... we cannot go beyond our constructs. So when something is 'off'... we are driving off the freeway... part of us starts to put us through the torture of smashing up the house of mirrors: or perhaps creating the house of mirrors.

So, currently, I don't really try and imagine I know what the cause of DP/DR is, or anything really! I am concious - DP is a state of conciousness I do not want to be in! That is a very basic starting point. A prolonged bout of DP/DR I could see leading to suicide, its that bad. So, like putting ones hand in a food blender... one some how manages to put ones mind in one then asks "how do I take it out!????". This is all probably laughably simple to a god somewhere but to us it can be trickier.

Be aware of the sort of trap of thinking that all the things you do when you are not DP/DR are somehow 'distractions' from it. One can be fine for days, have fun and flowing states of conciousness, then DP/DR comes along and says "but no! I am king of your universe, look how I make you suffer, and all those days were made meaningless by the past twenty minutes, they were just distractions from the true state of conciousness!"..... flow doesn't do that do, its not a tyrant like that!


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## alphaman (Nov 4, 2005)

Rereading my reply its a bit rambling.

I've been through phases like yours of intermittent DP and is HAS got better. I would say you are on the right path. Continue to move to what your intuitive says you need.

I never had DP/Dr when running or flying on an airplane. These are protected 'head spaces' to me for some reason. If you can identify similar spaces yourself perhaps focus on these more. If work puts you in the flow, then maybe the issue is being able to be in the flow when not working....but what do you do when not working? Sit around? Perhaps you should be moving.... or working on something. Why not?



alphaman said:


> I can really relate to what you are describing.
> 
> I have not had a fully fledged 'DP/DR' existential panic attack for many weeks (if not months) however I have thought about the 'concept' and memory of it many times. I am still attracted to the questions around the nature of conciousness, time, space, universe etc: always have been. In fact I joked to my GF the other day about how blissful life was until I started to ask questions (about age 7 or8?). I regularly read european critical theory (foucault etc) because I find it interesting and part of me mentally gets really bored otherwise! So, a strange situation where thinking too much can lead to ego collapse and DP, but at the same time, deep and provocative analysis of culture and the world I hanker after.
> 
> ...


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## ChrisPA (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks alphaman, I really liked the ramble as you put it by the way. I definitely do too much sitting around when I am not at work. Skateboarding is kind of that safe zone for me, so I try to do that when possible, but it's not always possible unfortunately. Playing video games is usually another safe zone for me, but if I am hanging out with my girlfriend or something I usually can't be doing that either. Everything is pretty tolerable for the most part. It's just those intolerable moments that I can't stand and need to get rid of. Unfortunately I have been considering lately asking my psych for a script of Klonopin just to take when needed. I don't want to take a benzo everyday nor every other day. Just on those occasional days when things become intolerable. I really don't want to resort to this, and I have tried every other natural method of relief, but it's just very difficult sometimes. I would try Kava, but I take Paxil so I don't believe I can mix the two. Anyways, thanks for the words of encouragement Alphaman. I hope I can get over the final hurdles and out of the clutches of DP/DR.


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## IamFree (Mar 30, 2010)

ChrisPA said:


> Things have been going round and round in the same typical DP loop for me since the onset of this condition over a year ago now, and quite frankly I am so sick of it. Every time I think I am getting better, and learning to accept the DP I have for what it truly is (habitual negative thought processes)I end up getting DP/DR thoughts that bring me right back to the beginning. I am not writing this to be negative. That accomplishes nothing and would be counter productive. However, I am finding myself to be frustrated at times with this whole thing. After an intense 4 months at the onset of my DP/DR I began to not eliminate but alleviate the DP/DR after reading "Hope And Help For Your Nerves" by Dr. Claire Weeks and other positive posts on this forum. I went 3 months last summer having no intense anxiety or DP/DR moments. I still had the thoughts, but the physical symptoms of DP were gone, and even the thoughts didn't really bother me at that time. Then one day just like when this whole thing started in the first place, one day the thoughts did bother me, and once again I was back in this loop.
> 
> I have since that time gone up and down with this whole thing. I've gone days, even weeks, where I don't really think about DP/DR or it's accompanying thoughts. On those days if I do think about them I can shrug them off and get on with my days. But then there are other times where the thoughts take over, and control everything I am doing basically. This typically happens on the weekends or in the evenings. Which, of course is when I am not working. When I am at work or busy doing anything else I am rarely if ever bothered by DP/DR. I just don't have time to think about it. However, it's impossible to be busy all day everyday, and not being able to live comfortably in the moments where I am not fully engaged in work or an activity is severely reducing the quality of my life. So looking back on this past year and 4 months when this all began, I did realize why this is happening to me, and I have found ways to deal with it for the most part. Things such as taking supplements, eating a healthy diet, exercising etc. But... I don't want to settle with just dealing with it. For all of those who have either recovered, and/or completely eliminated the intrusive thoughts or at least have kept them at a manageable state for a significant amount of time do you have any thoughts regarding this?
> 
> I have come so far since this all started, and I am thankful for that. I rarely if ever get the physical symptoms or the feeling of DP/DR anymore. But I do still have generalized anxiety produced by thinking intrusive DP/DR thoughts, which occasionally cause panic attacks. I have read many different methods to stop the thoughts such as acceptance no matter what, reverse psychology such as encouraging the thoughts to do their worst, as well as some others. Although these things have helped, they haven't solved the problem entirely. I am just stuck in this DP/DR thought pattern and would appreciate any suggestions to help find the way out. Not just for me but for anyone in general on this site that is looking for some guidance as it relates specifically to the thought patterns of DP/DR, not so much the feeling.


Hey; I might be able to lend a hand. First you've got a lot going for you. You made serious progress. The hard part is a set back like this - so don't get frustrated, sometimes it's one step forward one step back. In my opinion you've done a lot to figure anxiety out and how to take care of it.

Here's what i think you're missing, getting to the root of the problem. Here I refer you to the book Feeling Good by David Burns. You may not have figured out what causes the anxiety for you.

For me, it was overwhelming myself because i had to be perfect and was afraid of criticism. If it wasn't perfect it was a fail (all or nothing thinking). This is a totally ridiculous line of thinking. It's also a self esteem issue.

When i first heard this could be a self esteem issue. That's hogwash. But as i read the book i learned so much about myself that isn't so obvious. To think i was superman caused me a great deal of anxiety. And intrusive thoughts are a symptom of anxiety and a distractor so i wouldn't think about all the things bugging me (that shouldn't bug me).

I've recovered. It took awhile. Getting used to the idea of lowering my standards to something more realistic was hard because i had old habits to break.

Now i go online and try to help people out. There's not much for intrusive thoughts help out there. I created a webpage to assure people they aren't crazy, a mini series that includes natural ways to heal your anxiety, and a preview of some of the courses i took, books read etc. You may be beyond that though. It's more for people just getting it and wondering if they are going crazy.

IamFree
www.freeintrusivethoughtsocd.com


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## ChrisPA (Dec 22, 2009)

I would still be interested in your webpage IamFree. DP/DR has kinda creeped back on me more strongly this week than usual, but I am trying not to make too much of it. Also, I just picked up Feeling Good today and am excited to read it. Thanks for the help and advice.

-ChrisPA


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2010)

YES. I still have the intrusive thoughts. I went into the doctor on Monday and asked her about the best suppliments to take for OCD type behaviors because I did have mild ocd before dp and it feels very much like that. She said that the best ones would be the some ones used for anxiety which are St. John's Wart and Valerian Root. When I was there I asked for a b12 shot and also went and bought liquid Sublingual vitamin b complex and vitamin D. I started taking them on Monday and the intrusive thoughts are GONE. They were gone yesterday, not sure about Tuesday. Anyway, that worked very quickly for me. I am so thankful. My depression has lifted and my anxiety has also decreased dramatically.


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## ChrisPA (Dec 22, 2009)

tinyfairypeople do you think it's the St.John's Wart and the Valerian that eliminated the intrusive thoughts, or the Vitamin B complex and vitamin D? I can't take St.John's Wart or Valerian because I am still taking Paxil. I would definitely pick up a Vitamin B complex and Vitamin D if you think they help. Which ones would you recommend?


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