# I have so many questions..........



## BellaMIA1 (Aug 15, 2007)

My daughter completed suicide on 3/18/07.
She hung herself in our basemenrt and we found her. I asked my therapist, how could this happen? How is it possible to go through with it? She had to pull the kitchen table chair into the basement, tie the scarf to the pole, put the weights in her pockets, get up onto the chair, put her neck into the scarf and kick the chair out from under her,...how does one do all of that and not realize what they're doing? My therapist said it's called depersonalization. Can anyone help me to understand this? She was an alchoholic. Please, anybody?


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## lyn (Aug 14, 2007)

Oh Bella, I so feel for you, such a tragic loss, I cn't imagine what you must be going through. I give you my condolences 

I know first hand what it's like to have depersonalization. For me, it began when I had so much guilt due to having an abortion, so much that it consumed me, ergo, deperson.

As you can see here, the symptoms of it are very disturbing to one. It makes you feel so alone, like no one else is in this hazy, clouded, very weird feeling world. With drinking large amounts of alcohol, it makes your perception to everything even more way off. As your daughter was getting things set to leave the world she felt she could no longer bare, she most likely was in a trance. With depersonalization, I find that many a times I've wanted to curl up into a tiny ball and stay there indefiniately.

Your daughter had the know how to end her life as with deperson, you have your wits about you but this disconnection with the rest of the world/people, it is, a horrible feeling. And to find it won't ever go away...and it's other companions, depression, anxiety, phobias, etc. It's easy for me to understand where people are coming from when they feel they want 'out' but of course, it's not the way to go. There is still enjoyment in life outside of this. The pain that it causes loved ones as you are now experiencing.. I do hope you're seeking help for yourself as you no doubt are struggling a great great deal with your loss.

I'm so sorry Bella,
Sincerely, Lyn


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## lyn (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm sorry Sheila, I should say I hope you 'continue' with the help of your therapist. This brain....

XO


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## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

I am so sorry that you've had to go through that.
Trying to figure out and diagnose in hindsight is hard. Did she ever talk about depersonalization (DP) symptoms or see someone about it?
I can't say if she had DP or not.

If she did have DP,
the combination of DP and depression can make a person do things that they would never do if they were well, because of the clouded judgement of depression, and not even feel anything about it at all because of the DP. 
For many who suffer from this the use of alcohol makes the symptoms makedly worse.
There is much more information about DP to be had by just reading the posts of sufferers on this site.

There are alot of threads up lately about suicide. I don't know how comfortable you would feel reading them but if it helps there are many posts here on that subject. 
Please keep in mind that there are people on this forum who have been suicidal and that there may be posts that would be very upsetting to you.

I hope this is helpful.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

So sorry to hear of this. Losing a child this way is probably the worst thing one can go through.

A close friend of mine took her own life 12/2004. All the "signs" were there before hand, but don't beat yourself up, no one seems to see them.

If she was in therapy and someone said DP, well that's one thing. The fact your daughter was an alcoholic seems as if she was self-medicating ... something.

This site and a support group really helped me understand what happened, and everyone had a miserable story to tell. But no one outside this "circle of survivors" wants to discuss it. No one knows what to say.

*#1, it wasn't your fault.*

I forgot where you live, but this site can get you hooked up with a local support group. If you aren't in the US there have to be equivalent groups.

When one is in a "suicidal mind" it is a completely different way of thinking. I have been seriously suicidal twice and once nearly went through with it. But I'm still here. 48 years old. Sadly w/DP/DR it is indeed unbearable.

http://www.survivorsofsuicide.com/

I feel strongly that a support group like this is almost imperative even if is terribly painful, and members in my group lost parents, friends, other relatives, and children.

Take Care,
D


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## nu-power (Sep 27, 2006)

sorry to hear that bella

but how did ur therapist know that she had depersonalization?

i dont think dp can cause suicide coz a dp sufferer dont have the courage

to do it. depression can. maybe she was dp'ed and deppressed. dp is

fear.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

> i dont think dp can cause suicide coz a dp sufferer dont have the courage
> 
> to do it.


That's an odd statement... DP can feel so horrible that one can only wish for the peace when one is dead. And why should a person with DP not have the courage? As I said, I think this is a really odd statement.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss, Sheila  Your daughter must have seen no way out. As for DP; do you know she had DP or was it just speculation or a way to speak about it from your therapist? I know that DP can make you feel depressed, scared, alone etc. It can cause a person to commit suicide.


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## BellaMIA1 (Aug 15, 2007)

Thank you everyone for your replies. We don't know that she had depersonalization, we do know that something pushed her over the edge that night. Actually, it was two nights before but she hung herself 2 days after the incident. Yes, she was depressed and drank when she was really unhappy. She had been in an abusive relationship with a narcissist for 4 yrs. (we didn't know what he was until after she died and I did research after speaking to my therapist) She didn't know she couldn't win, ever, and thought everything was her fault. She thought maybe it was her that was crazy. Far from it, she was a very smart, articulate, loving, giving, affectionate, talented young women that could have done anything she wanted in life if she could have gotten past the relationship that she left. Anybody that knew her would tell you the same thing...she absolutely lit up a room when she entered it, she just had something about her that people were drawn to...I think it's because she cared, she really cared, and people could tell that about her. Anyway, I digress. 
I asked my therapist if she could have gone into some sort of trance, or out of body experience when she prepared to hang herself. That's when he mentioned it's called depersonalization. I described everything in my first post what she did to prepare to kill herself and just can't believe she could do that in her right mind. She had alcohol in her, yes, but she certainly wasn't drunk that night. Is it possible that it could have been a one time incident with the depersonalization thing? I don't know enough to make that call, but it's the only thing that makes sense, to me, anyway. He truly made her feel worthless, unworthy, and like a bad, undeserving person 2 days before she died. (through the whole relationship, really) She was none of these things but if anyone has ever dealt with a narcissist, they know how they can make a person believe all these things. Thanks again for replying to my question everyone. 
PS Yes, I'm seeing someone and am in the process of finding a psychiatrist also. I found her the night she died, that scene plays out in my mind over, and over, and over. It's only been 5 months so I guess that's normal. And yes, losing your child, especially to suicide, is about the worst thing that can happen to a parent. I wouldn't wish it on the devil himself.


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

Hi Sheila,

I myself wanted to kill myself when I was 15. I was very depressed at the time and I couldn't find a way out of this dark hell I was living in. This may sound dramatic, but that's really the way I felt. I guess anyone who has been or is in a depression would say the same kinda thing. At that time (and I can only speak for myself of course) I didn't think of my parents, my brothers, my friends and the pain I would cause them when I would commit suicide. I was so into myself and my pain, drowing, that was the only thing present. I do have a dissociative disorder (DID) and it felt like someone wanted me to stand up and kill this body. I honestly do not know if someone without a dissociative disorder would feel the same at such a crucial moment... On the other hand, DP is common in depressed and stressed people. I tend to think that DP itself is not responsible for your daughters death; it was her depression, low selfesteem, her traumatic relationship. I tend to think that she drowned in the overwhelming emotions and wasn't thinking of the pain she would cause you and others. She couldn't...


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## BellaMIA1 (Aug 15, 2007)

Oh, no. I know she wasn't thinking about us, I don't think anyone that completes suicide is capable of seeing beyond their own horrible pain. If they could, they wouldn't do it. I know my daughter wouldn't have...she knew how much we loved her, that we would do anything for her, this I know. If she could rationalize what was going to happen, she wouldn't have done it here, in our home where she knew we would find her, hanging from that scarf. She would never have done that to us. Also, if she was capable of rationalizing her suicide, she wouldn't have done it on her favorite brother's birthday, never in a million years. She was always so excited to share her brother's birthday with him. So I know what you say is true when you say all you can feel is your pain, and not the pain your death would cause others. That's why I wonder if they go into some sort of fog, or trance, or something. Something happens, nobody truly wants to die. I think some want to kill the pain, but can't really see that they'll never see their loved ones again, never hear the birds sing, or a baby cry, or see a sunset, that they'll truly be gone forever....just gone. I don't think they/she could do it if they/she could see all that....if they could see all of that they would be thinking rationally, and they're not, that's for sure. Her last words in her suicide note said 'I LOVE MY FAMILY' But I'll tell you, as a parent, this is crippling and more painful then any pain I could have ever imagined. Only my other kids, and my husband, keep me here on this earth. This life no longer holds any joy or laughter and all the things I ever believed in are shattered. Suicide of a child leaves the parents in a sort of limbo, I've been the mom of 5 kids for 31 years, now there's only 4. My whole place and role in this life is out of kilter. 
Anyway, thanks for replying Luka. And I'm very happy you never completed suicide. ((((Luka))))


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

Hug for you too Sheila.

(((Sheila)))


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## Oriel (Aug 18, 2007)

bella, my condolences, losing someone to suicide is the wost way to lose anyone.
as a DP sufferer for over 3 years and someone who lives with suicidal feelings, your post resonated with me and even though i can only speculate i feel i may be able to shed some light on your daughter's suicide. please excuse my directness, i hope i do not offend you.
i hope i can answer some of your questions, at any rate it is good that you are starting to ask them as ignorance cannot allow for healing, i believe. but i caution you, i speak very matter-of-factly about these things and it may be painful to read.
a caution to any other readers, i will talk about my own suicidal periods and it may be upsetting to you and possibly inappropriate for younger readers.

a commonly accepted reason for the cause of DP is external stimuli with which the sufferer cannot deal with. their brain 'detaches' its consciousness from the outside reality in order to preserve itself (the reason why many people cannot remember traumatic experiences such as rape or abuse they suffered as a child). it sounds that your daughter's boyfriend may have been the catalyst to her DP, if that is what she had. her brain may have disassociated itself to avoid the reality of an abusive relationship.

i believe there are different type of suicidal feelings. people become suicidal for a variety of reasons but because the result is the same, they are grouped accordingly. however, you must remember that every patient is unique. what i have/do experience is different to other's.

i was institutionalized last year as a result of my suicidal tendencies and often i was questioned about why i wanted to end my life. i am considered caring, friendly, i have a great support network of friends and family and i have great prospects. despite that (or maybe because of it), my DP bought on an existential angst. i questioned the reasoning behind everything i did. i felt detached from reality. an analogy might be biting in to an apple and getting no taste. i was going through the motions of maintaining my life but it felt like it was falling apart.
you speak of your daughter as a rational person which is how i would describe myself. however, i over rationalized everything when i go through a suicidal phase. an example of MY thought process:
i often lose the ability to feel emotion and i can apply this to other people, leaving me uncaring about how my actions will affect them. i often become consumed with the present (think tunnel vision) and cannot bring myself to consider the consequences of that moment.
i rationalize everything so much that even though i understand my death will affect others significantly, the ripples that my death causes in their sea of life will finally be placated (or considered nil) by their death. any flow on effects will be a drop of water in the ocean as far as humanity and the bigger picture is concerned. my death in the greater scheme of things in ineffectual.

just as suicide is more painful than someone claimed by old age to those left behind, living life insane is more painful to the sufferer than death. if she felt she was going insane (which is another common symptom of DP) in this way, some people DO truly wish to die. it is possible that her death was preconceived, especially considering she wrote a final note and if the event that may have been the catalyst happened two days previously. it is possible that she may have been considering suicide for a long time beforehand. it is often impossible to see any signs of anyone seriously contemplating suicide.

my plans of suicide have only ever involved me committing suicide in my home, where i feel comfortable. anywhere else is out of the question. though it may sound macabre, your daughter obviously felt comfortable enough in your home to kill herself, instead of at the place she shared with her boyfriend, who she had spent so long trying to avoid. as her note said, she loved you.
in the same sense, i never wanted to kill myself when i was unhappy. your daughter was in a familiar, loving place, surrounded by her family, on her brother's birthday. when i read this, it jumped out at me. it is not understood by people who haven't experienced this 'euphoric unhappiness' (which is NOT universally experienced by most suicidal people). my rationalization of this was, "my life it at the peak of its happiness, any life past this is an anti-climax therefore, i should end it now". sometimes the fear of depression is worse that the depression itself. while her suicide may seem like cruelty and a corruption of the sanctity and security of your home, it is possible she may have hoped to share this final moment with you, even believing that you would appreciate it happening under your roof rather than her realizing the destructive nature it can have.
also, she may have finally be overwhelmed by her feelings, which can cause a sort of mental paralysis. it is hard to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced it, but consider suddenly losing all ambition and motivation as a mental barrier (that you know is not real, which makes it more infuriating and compounds the problem) springs up around you, rendering you unable to do anything and dislocating you from the outside world (even feelings of joy can create this).
we all have times when we feel overloaded. to some sufferers of DP this is taken to an extreme and becomes overwhelming, shutting down the person's ability to function and making suicide appear a valid option.

as for the alcoholism, as someone mentioned before, it may well have been a way of self-medicating. for me, i spend excessive amount of time doing things that allow me to stabilize my mood and they normally consist of activities that further detach me from reality (such as mind-numbing work or binge drinking)

i hope i have been able to illuminate somewhat your daughter's tragic death. as i said before, it is good that you are asking questions and exploring it, no matter how painful it may be.
thank you for allowing me to discuss my own experiences. having someone listen is so very important.
if you would like more information or to discuss or just someone to listen, feel free to send me a personal message, i'm online often =)

my apologies for waffling!


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## nu-power (Sep 27, 2006)

Luka said:


> Hi Sheila,
> 
> I tend to think that DP itself is not responsible for your daughters death; it was her depression, low selfesteem, her traumatic relationship. I tend to think that she drowned in the overwhelming emotions and wasn't thinking of the pain she would cause you and others. She couldn't...


so u agreed with my odd statement :roll:


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## Luka (Aug 30, 2005)

No. You said people with DP don't commit suicide because they don't have enough courage. I think that's nonsense. In my above post I simply suggested that Sheila's daughter committed suicide because she felt such an overwhelming pain and saw no way out. People who suffer from DP (and/or DR) can and do make an end to their lives too, but for other reasons. But they do it nevertheless.


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## nu-power (Sep 27, 2006)

BellaMIA1

again... in my opinion. depression is the main reason for anyone to

commit suicide. dp is very bad . but believe me with dp we can think of

our families, friends before we do that. but a depressed person cannot

think of anything or anyone except his/her case which is unbearable. we

hear many stories about ppl killed them selves just because they couldnt

reach the perfect weight the wanted to reach. because they became

depressed. i dont know about luka but i think we -dps- have hope and can

control our behaviours and are fully aware of what we're doing.

its not easy to forget im sure bella but give all ur time to your children

and make a peace invironment in ur house. share them their unpleasent

feelings and try to solve their problems in a positive way. teach them to

be positive . if you believe in god. teach them to be more closer to god

each day more. tell them that patience on pain will be rewarded someday.

give them hope as much as you can. and finally watch who they're

hanging around with - i mean ; know who their friends are. and stay

strong.

around the world there are thousands of young ppl got killed in wars and

starvation infront of their parents eyes but cant do anything to save them.

at least it was ur daughter's choice to end her life. she thought its better

for her. unlike those who had dreams and were waiting the time to start

building their future but death comes and end everything for no reason. i

hope what i wrote made u feel better. if not i hope i didnt hurt u more.

love : Nadine (sry for my bad english)


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## Oriel (Aug 18, 2007)

what you must remember is that every case is different.
DP, like all illnesses, affects everyone differently.

in effect there is no exact answer as to why your daughter decided to end her life, we can only speculate.

please do not take anything we say as gospel rather as ideas that may or may not be relevant.

i told you my story because as i said, your post resonated with me and i felt like i had been in a similar position.

Oriel xoxo

and as a side note nadine, i was never depressed when i wanted to kill myself and the only thing that has ever stopped me is members of my family accidentally finding my sleeping pills.
as i said before, everyone has different motivations for suicide.


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