# New DP article in The Atlantic



## Abita77 (Oct 7, 2011)

Always good to see more coverage of this. I do have an issue when people say DP sufferers lose their ability to feel strong emotions (while I don't usually feel things in the moment, my memories of everything that's happened to me in the 20 years I've had this are just as rich and beautiful as anyone else's. I still laugh. I still cry. I'm still human.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/enlightenments-evil-twin/383726/


----------



## Guest (Dec 16, 2014)

Great article, here was my response to some of the comments in the comment section, however.



> I'm a decade long sufferer of Depersonalization Disorder, I own the largest forum on the web for it. I'm very pleased to see this article, thank you to the author.
> 
> DPD is not a philosophical state, it is the result of tangible changes in the brain as mentioned in the article. It can be transient, induced by drugs such as MDMA or even by a lack of sleep. The issue that arises is when it is unable to be mitigated and becomes chronic, deeply affecting the sense of self and how the sufferer perceives reality. There is a strong correlation between childhood trauma and the manifestation of Depersonalization Disorder.
> 
> ...


----------



## 3ean (Aug 14, 2014)

Damn that was waaayyyy too positive. Guys, were actually all just in an enlightened state, and were all just really stupid for not recognizing it.


----------



## Guest (Dec 17, 2014)

Its amazing to finally see this breaking through. It has been far too long for it to be kept silent. Amazing, thanks for posting!


----------



## Aerin (Nov 1, 2012)

"While depersonalization can be a symptom of anxiety and depression, it can also occur on its own."

I'm glad this finally got stated. Trying to talk with anyone about this was 100% useless for me because whomever I talked with, I MUST have had depression and/or anxiety for it to happen.

me-I wasn't anxious about anything (well, except grades, but normally so) until this happened

doctor-I don't myself understand what you are trying to describe, but my book says it's because of depression. You should enroll in our clinical study!

me-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

I am always pleased to see media exposure, but I agree this is minimizing how debilitating this can be.
And I am geting furious at those (including doctors and therapists) who thought they at least KNOW the name of the symptoms of "unreality", etc. still "don't get it."

I also agree with the comment that this is NOT philosophical, it is a perceputal disorder that originates in the brain. That does not mean it's incurable. But it is a medical condition.

Well, we get what we can.


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

I read it again, and got more ticked off. I posted a number of times. Those who have not suffered from this -- lost social or occupatinal functioning have no clue what we experience.
Yes, there can be a spectrum of severity here, but when you end up feeling like a ghost and can barely communicate I wouldn't call that enlightenment.
I have had this for 50 years.
It has never helped me. I keep pushing on, but it has stolen away the joy in my life, my career, many pleasures I even enjoyed as a young woman.
I HATE these articles.

There ARE better ones.


----------



## Guest (Dec 19, 2014)

I didn't really see anything too offensive with this article. I've been told many times dissociation is a blessing in disguise and I believe that. For those of us who had a very traumatic upbringing.. dissociation saved our sanity and maybe even our lives. It's a defence mechanism and it worked. Without it, where would we be now? In a mental asylum? Dead from suicide?

I must admit, I never liked the term 'disorder' purely b/c it's not a disorder all the time. Sure sometimes it is, but often it's not, especially as you begin to heal.

I'll join in on the whinge about the medical community not having much comprehension of the dissociative disorders though, and I'll always say the same thing.. If only they'd actually listen to each and every client who describes their experiences instead of waiting for the clinical trials and the empirical studies.. they'd have a lot more insight than they have. They don't listen unless it's in a so-called controlled environment set up for specific evaluation with people in white coats and clipboards taking notes.

It's just another boring article that basically says nothing that hasn't been said a million times on this site if you ask me.

I noticed Nicks comment was deleted&#8230; or did I just miss that second time around?


----------



## Guest (Dec 19, 2014)

Zed said:


> I didn't really see anything too offensive with this article. I've been told many times dissociation is a blessing in disguise and I believe that. For those of us who had a very traumatic upbringing.. dissociation saved our sanity and maybe even our lives. It's a defence mechanism and it worked. Without it, where would we be now? In a mental asylum? Dead from suicide?
> 
> I must admit, I never liked the term 'disorder' purely b/c it's not a disorder all the time. Sure sometimes it is, but often it's not, especially as you begin to heal.
> 
> ...


They might have deleted it. Not sure why, since I was making a remark about the comments and not the article.

I understand what you're saying about it being useful (when it was needed) however:



> Without it, where would we be now? In a mental asylum? Dead from suicide?


I've been closer to both of these because of DPD than anything else. It was great until it no longer served its purpose. I'm certainly not grateful for the pathological manifestation of an otherwise healthy coping mechanism.


----------



## Guest (Dec 19, 2014)

Selig said:


> I understand what you're saying about it being useful (when it was needed) however:
> 
> I've been closer to both of these because of DPD than anything else. It was great until it no longer served its purpose. I'm certainly not grateful for the pathological manifestation of an otherwise healthy coping mechanism.


This is the part where I used to say.. yes, the fact it hasn't turned off&#8230; this is where nature fucked up! But now I look at it differently. It's a protective mechanism and it's still active, b/c we still perceive a threat/s, and that's the part that desperately needs to be addressed in order to turn it off. Each and every one of us perceives different things as being threatening, according to what happened in the past. For me, those triggers hold a lot of information about my past and I need to understand in depth what they are and why they are, in order to turn them off. No triggers = no dissociation.


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Zed said:


> I didn't really see anything too offensive with this article. I've been told many times dissociation is a blessing in disguise and I believe that. For those of us who had a very traumatic upbringing.. dissociation saved our sanity and maybe even our lives. It's a defence mechanism and it worked. Without it, where would we be now? In a mental asylum? Dead from suicide?
> 
> I must admit, I never liked the term 'disorder' purely b/c it's not a disorder all the time. Sure sometimes it is, but often it's not, especially as you begin to heal.


Dear Zed,

I can say for myself, DP/DR was NEVER helpful for me in terms of coping. NEVER. It only limited my acitivities since my childhood.

It never protected me against severe anxiety I have. I can have DP/DR and anxiety at the same time.

Also, I came from a very dysfunctional family. My mother was verbally abusive. I remember everything that ever happened.

What I see is that I was constantly overstimulated by yelling, attacks, insults, etc. and I was anxious almost all of the time. I see the DP/DR I had as a "blown fuse" so to speak. My father also abandoned me -- I finally got to have some brief discussions with him before he died at 84 -- I was 32 at the time. After I left for college -- I don't think he visited me once. Half the time I didn't know where he was.

At any rate. I do not see this as a coping mechanism. I see how when someone is raped, or threatened at gunpoint, etc. -- mentally healthy individuals -- they may "escape" the situation by having DP/DR. But it then passes. I know healthy friends who watched the World Trade Center collapse and said, "It is like a dream." But these people are perfectly healthy otherwise. Stressful situations, or "odd stituations" can knock anyone "off balance."

If someone is exposed to CHRONIC overstimulation (as a child in particular) you can see how perhaps the "circuit blows." I see that with myself. Though that theory could be totally wrong.

And the reason this is called a disorder is that it interferes with social and occupational functioning. Individuals cannot work and they cannot have healthy relationships. And they are suffering. It has also been called a syndrome (by Dr. Sierra).

It is like grieving. Someone who is grieving the death of a loved one may exhibit ALL of the signs of clinical depression, but the grieving process usually passes and the individual begins to come to terms with the loss. They do not need medication. They may go for counseling (I know a friend who needs to talk these things out since her husband died 2 years ago.)

On the other hand, people with clinical depression, who cannot function, or who are suicidal (and I have been there) -- THAT is a disorder. Treatment can come in all forms. But in that case there is agressive treatment.

These are two separate thngs.

Again, my life, my aspirations ... many things I was never able to achieve because of this stupid DP/DR. I have a BA and MA from college -- both nearly killed me. Giving presentations while feeling like a ghost was torture. I also worked at Fox Studios in LA after graduation. I worked at PBS. I have had many other "less stressful" jobs that were STILL stressful.

I won't go on. You can read it all on my website. But DP/DR took over my life back in the 1960s when I was a little girl. I took that lemon and have been involved in Mental Health Advocacy instead. NOT what I wanted to do with my life. And even that is stressful.

Just had to say my piece on this.
Cheers,
D


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

My biggest beef about this type of article -- and there are many. Is the confusing between NORMAL philosophical thinking, and Buddist practice with DP/DR.

They are NOT the same. And individuals only get bad information.
I also posted there. I haven't gone back to see the comments. OMG some people get off on philosophical tangents. They are perfectly mentally healthy. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND what we are experiencing.


----------



## Aerin (Nov 1, 2012)

*Dreamer* said:


> .
> 
> I can say for myself, DP/DR was NEVER helpful for me in terms of coping. NEVER
> 
> D


IMO the only people who could possibly think DP is a helpful coping mechanism are people who have no true understanding of what it is, or people so desperate for an explanation that they will accept such an explanation when it's ejected from the mouths of the former yahoos.

I don't entirely agree that the experience (at least in temporary form) is without potential personal benefits, but I think the overall assessment here of the weekend new age crowd is correct - most of them haven't the faintest clue what they are striving for when they talk about this. The issue I personally take with it isn't that DP isn't or can't be enlightening, it's the casual way the term is used and the common idea that enlightening experiences must involve bliss, happy tingles in the spine, and visits from angels and other shit they read in books in isle 4.

There are two groups of people that are hard for me to sympathize with when it comes to experiencing prolonged DP. The people in the 'weed is only good and can never cause bad effects and anyone who thinks otherwise is brainwashed by gov. propaganda' crowd, and people who think they are enlightened because they figured out how to get spine tingles, and that therefore they are ready to mentally process anything. The first almost seems like a kind of justice, the second I feel like I should sarcastically congratulate.


----------



## Guest (Dec 20, 2014)

Aerin said:


> IMO the only people who could possibly think DP is a helpful coping mechanism are people who have no true understanding of what it is, or people so desperate for an explanation that they will accept such an explanation when it's ejected from the mouths of the former yahoos.
> 
> I don't entirely agree that experience (at least in temporary form) is without potential personal benefits, but I think the overall assessment here of the weekend new age crowd is correct - most of them haven't the faintest clue what they are striving for when they talk about this. The issue I personally take with it isn't that DP isn't or can't be enlightening, it's the casual way the term is used and the common idea that enlightening experiences must involve bliss, happy tingles in the spine, and visits from angels and other shit they read in books in isle 4.
> 
> There are two groups of people that are hard for me to sympathize with when it comes to experiencing prolonged DP. The people in the 'weed is only good and can never cause bad effects and anyone who thinks otherwise is brainwashed by gov. propaganda' crowd, and people who think they are enlightened because they figured out how to get spine tingles, and that therefore they are ready to mentally process anything. The first almost seems like a kind of justice, the second I feel like I should sarcastically congratulate.


What a load of shit.


----------



## Aerin (Nov 1, 2012)

Zed said:


> What a load of shit.


What's a load of shit? 
The claim that DP isn't the super bestest most amazing way to relax? 
The claim that your body didn't put you into omgimgonnadieWTF full panic mode to protect you from scary things (even though that's what someone reading bullet points out of the DSM tells you)?
The claim that most dogmatically religious people are talking out their asses?
Or the claim that the jackass who gets DP after running around telling the world that pot cures everything doesn't necessarily deserve hugs?

Please elaborate.


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Well, I wouldn't say I feel there is government propaganda involved, but it is abundantly clear that individuals who have never experienced a mental illness have absolutely NO CLUE what it's all about.

Metaphors and analogies someone might used are interpreted in "lay person" terms.

I have a friend whose brother just passed away at 62. Schizoaffective Disorder, Hoarder, alcoholic. The story is horrendous. He was sick since he was around 8. My friend, completely mentally healthy, cannot see that he was anything more than an alcoholic. I can't even describe the extent of his behavior.

He was arrested I dont' know how many times. Walked around naked outside in the winter. Heard voices coming through the TV. His neighbors had restraining orders against him. He was in possession of I don't know how many weapons. I'm not even talking about the horrible thigns that would break your heart.

Even in the midst of all of this, and several official diagnoses years ago and a stint in a mental institution which no longer exists, my friend does not understand mental illness. She hated her brother. She will not accept he was anything but an addict with a horrible weakness of character.

I understand him/understood. She can't. He made her life a living Hell. His illness destroyed their family. Father wanted nothing to do with him. Mother felt so guilty she sent thousands of dollars to bail him out, to buy him a house. Otherwise he would be homeless.

The legal battle goes on over debt, where his money went, on and on and on.


----------



## Guest (Dec 20, 2014)

Aerin said:


> What's a load of shit?
> The claim that DP isn't the super bestest most amazing way to relax?
> The claim that your body didn't put you into omgimgonnadieWTF full panic mode to protect you from scary things (even though that's what someone reading bullet points out of the DSM tells you)?
> The claim that most dogmatically religious people are talking out their asses?
> ...


Who cares what your views are on pot or religion or on our natural feelings and emotions? I don't that's for sure cuz you're so far off the mark it's not worth the effort.

Who said dp was the bestest most amazing way to relax? Talk about give an inch and take a mile...

You've obviously got nothing enlightening to say about dp as far as I'm concerned. You're just rehashing the distorted truth and garbage I see here all the time..

You've got a lot to learn&#8230;


----------



## Guest (Dec 20, 2014)

*Dreamer* said:


> Well, I wouldn't say I feel there is government propaganda involved, but it is abundantly clear that individuals who have never experienced a mental illness have absolutely NO CLUE what it's all about.
> 
> Metaphors and analogies someone might used are interpreted in "lay person" terms.


I totally disagree with this Dreamer. Sure.. people who don't have a mental illness don't know how it feels, but there're plenty of good therapists who can 'walk with their patients through their troubles and lead them into a clear state of mind.. You should know that anyway being surrounded by mental health professionals as you describe. If THEY didn't have a clue.. they'd be worthless.. but they're not, as is proven with so many success stories from people who've gone in for counselling and sorted through the problems they experience.. whether it's for depression, anxiety, dp, D.I.D. etc.


----------



## Aerin (Nov 1, 2012)

Zed said:


> Who cares what your views are on pot or religion or on our natural feelings and emotions? I don't that's for sure cuz you're so far off the mark it's not worth the effort.
> 
> Who said dp was the bestest most amazing way to relax? Talk about give an inch and take a mile...
> 
> ...


Maybe other people who read the article that this whole thread is about.
The pot thing is just tangentially related, because I have even less sympathy for the people who utterly trivialize potential negative effects than I do for people who approach meditative practice as if it's a hobby like taking up needlepoint.

Also, my comments are opinions, and were explicitly stated as such. The only person halfway treating it like some kind of debate is you. Yet you refuse to actually elaborate upon what you find objectionable. Your reply is essentially "I totally disagree and it's obviously not worth talking to you about why' (which imo makes it a bit pointless in the first place). It comes across as being far more fueled by having taken things as vaguely personally offensive than by the specific content of the posts (which is rather silly since most of it consisted of broad statistics and were extremely general). eg. MOST people 'out for enlightenment' have no idea what DP is'. Most != all, if that's your major hangup.

Also, your assumption and follow through passive aggressive insinuation that I clearly must know nothing of DP, Buddhism and other esoteric systems, psychology, psychonautics and/or western medical and psychiatric practice (likewise that I'm not allowed to share opinions based on experiences with any of these things) is ironic enough to be cute. If you want to share your own experiences, your resulting conclusions and opinions about them, and why you disagree with my overall opinions, then do so. Otherwise, while it's humorously fitting for a DP forum, vicarious debating tactics aren't especially impressive.


----------



## Aerin (Nov 1, 2012)

*Dreamer* said:


> Well, I wouldn't say I feel there is government propaganda involved, but it is abundantly clear that individuals who have never experienced a mental illness have absolutely NO CLUE what it's all about.


If this was in reference to my comment I think it may have been misunderstood. 
(I have a habit of writing run-on sentences that can make things confusing).

The 'gov. propaganda' comment was purely in reference to very enthusiastic pot smokers. Specifically those who very vocally proclaim that it can have no negative effects, and that anyone claiming otherwise is spouting anti-drug propaganda. I'm very pro self-responsibility. As such, I don't have issues with legalization per se, but I strongly feel (for reasons probably obvious to people here), that trivializing potential negative effects (or insisting there are none) is extremely negligent.

That is pretty much the one type of person whom I have no pity at all for, should they themselves get DP from pot.


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Zed said:


> I totally disagree with this Dreamer. Sure.. people who don't have a mental illness don't know how it feels, but there're plenty of good therapists who can 'walk with their patients through their troubles and lead them into a clear state of mind.. You should know that anyway being surrounded by mental health professionals as you describe. If THEY didn't have a clue.. they'd be worthless.. but they're not, as is proven with so many success stories from people who've gone in for counselling and sorted through the problems they experience.. whether it's for depression, anxiety, dp, D.I.D. etc.


I am referring specifically to the individuals who read and respond to an Article such as the one posted in this thread. Also, in 2006, I was interviewed for "Elle" magazine. The journalist did a wonderful job of researching ... better than this article ... but had to present all sides of the story. Some doctors claimed in that article that DP/DR was a "fad" ...

My point is:
1. The average mentally healthy person has a very difficult time understanding mental illnesss

2. Doctors who are NOT psychiatrists look down upon psychiatric patients. (This is a fact. As a member of NAMI, and a mental health advocate, this is an old story.)
3. I have had some VERY good psychiatrists over the years and some very bad ones. As I said, I first saw a psychiatrist in 1975 when I was 16. He knew exactly what was wrong with me.
4. I currently see medical residents at the University of Michigan. Many of them have told me they received NO training about DP/DR at all. Others DID receive such training. And even those who understand ... well I have to keep explaining things to them again.

I have absolutely nothing against therapy, psychiatrists, etc. But there are good doctors and bad doctors in every profession.

I am talking specifically about the average person who has read that Atlantic article. They don't get it. Also, in the Elle article I was interviewed in ... the comment section was very painful to me. I had told my story at length. Much of it was in the article. The comment section said I was "whining over nothing" and other snide comments were made.


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Aerin said:


> If this was in reference to my comment I think it may have been misunderstood.
> (I have a habit of writing run-on sentences that can make things confusing).
> 
> The 'gov. propaganda' comment was purely in reference to very enthusiastic pot smokers. Specifically those who very vocally proclaim that it can have no negative effects, and that anyone claiming otherwise is spouting anti-drug propaganda. I'm very pro self-responsibility. As such, I don't have issues with legalization per se, but I strongly feel (for reasons probably obvious to people here), that trivializing potential negative effects (or insisting there are none) is extremely negligent.
> ...


OK, I had no idea what all of that meant, LOL. I see what you're saying.

I will say though, I have to have empathy for individuals who got this from pot. I never had a rec drug in my life as I had this as a child. I was terrified of anything making me feel worse. So I was with the "good kid" crowd. However, I know friends who tried pot once or twice and never smoked it again. In my day, most of the kids I hung out with drank and smoked pot, nothing more.

If one of those friends got DP/DR from one time with pot I can't blame them. Some people indeed are quite able to tolerate pot and have few ill effects. For others, pot triggers a number of serious things including panic attacks, etc. It seems this is not predictable. I'd say reaction to any drug (rec or prescribed) is not known -- we are all individuals and side-effects good or bad cannot always be predicted.

I don't wish DP/DR or any mental illness on anyone. I would however like those who don't even attempt to understand to experience it ... for 10 minutes. A bad episode. One doctor of mine had a few bad experiences when sleep deprived and under stress. He GOT IT. He was horrified that what simply passed for him after a good night's sleep, could be chronic. He wanted to learn everything about my experience.


----------



## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Last comment. Forgot who mentioned this.

I do know that Abilify and other medications can help some foiks here. I just have two concerns:
1. I have heard more people over the years say that these meds made DP/DR worse vs. better. This happened to me with older drugs in this class. But of course, these drugs can work for some people. I am only sayng, I don't wish to try said drugs now. I am afraid. That is my choice.

2. There are may doctors who hear people describe the symptoms of DP/DR and jump to a misdiagnosis of "some type of prodroomal schizophrenia." That experience has been shared a number of times. I do not like hearing of trained psychiatrists who jump to yes, a more agressive approach, vs. working with meds/therapy that don't have as many potential negative side effects.

This is IMHO.

And Zed, I'm not sure why there is an argument going on here. I guess I have missed somethikng. It's getting late.


----------



## Aerin (Nov 1, 2012)

*Dreamer* said:


> OK, I had no idea what all of that meant, LOL. I see what you're saying.
> I will say though, I have to have empathy for individuals who got this from pot. I never had a rec drug in my life as I had this as a child. I was terrified of anything making me feel worse. So I was with the "good kid" crowd. However, I know friends who tried pot once or twice and never smoked it again. In my day, most of the kids I hung out with drank and smoked pot, nothing more.
> If one of those friends got DP/DR from one time with pot I can't blame them. Some people indeed are quite able to tolerate pot and have few ill effects. For others, pot triggers a number of serious things including panic attacks, etc. It seems this is not predictable. I'd say reaction to any drug (rec or prescribed) is not known -- we are all individuals and side-effects good or bad cannot always be predicted.
> I don't wish DP/DR or any mental illness on anyone. I would however like those who don't even attempt to understand to experience it ... for 10 minutes. A bad episode. One doctor of mine had a few bad experiences when sleep deprived and under stress. He GOT IT. He was horrified that what simply passed for him after a good night's sleep, could be chronic. He wanted to learn everything about my experience.


I can empathize with most people who get it from pot - just not the ones that like to keep telling others how pot is some kind of perfectly safe cure-all (you can find many of these people in almost any pot debate). Every time I read such a claim I have to wonder about how many people got DP because they listened to such people and trusted that it was true. 
Then, to add insult to injury, any implication that pot may have caused problems is usually dismissed as: 'must have had an underlying condition and/or would have happened anyways!' 
Pot may be fine for 99% of people, but seriously, f#%^ these jokers who act like the other 1% isn't a big deal, or who act like that 1% MUST have already had something wrong with them, or that they are just mentally weak, etc etc.
If someone has a serious reaction to peanuts, you don't say 'musta been weak, couldn't handle those Planters'.

I honestly don't think DP CAN be understood unless it's experienced. That's my main issue with most therapy approaches. It's great if it's correctly identified as DP, and it's great that therapists CAN be very effective at helping people cope with anxiety and stressful situations. However, there is a fundamental disconnect when the doctor knows the word for the condition, and descriptions of it, but doesn't actually really know what it is like. And, IMO, what people would really benefit from is being able to discuss what they are experiencing in a logical way so that they can understand it better. Since most therapists don't understand it, patients are often given 'anxiety/depression/whatever' explanations**. These may be well meaning on the part of the doctor, but ultimately are just their own best attempt to explain an experience that they don't understand to begin with.

** I do think there is a correlation between these, I just don't agree that it's the direct one that therapists often suggest.


----------



## Guest (Dec 22, 2014)

Sometimes I wonder the same thing. If the average person is going to view it as ascending to your planar form or some rubbish, maybe it's best left to the people who matter. The comments were typical armchair psychologist drivel.


----------



## MiketheAlien (Nov 7, 2013)

Selig said:


> ascending to your planar form


http://i.imgur.com/Ttrq5.jpg


----------



## Guest (Dec 22, 2014)

Busted!


----------



## Huggy Bear (Oct 28, 2009)

The article is kind of weak, but I can still see Selig's comment. Don't know why you guys think it was deleted...


----------

