# DP/DR as a result of other disorders



## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

I know that for some people on here, DP was caused by traumatic events from their past, or for some weed-induced, but im wondering if other people, like me, have developed DP due to other comorbid disorders. Replies would be greatly appreciated, as i am very curious on this topic.


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## Homers_child (Apr 13, 2008)

Hmmm. Sorry to say I have never been diagnosed. I have trouble getting to therapists, but I've always had pretty severe Social Anxiety Disorder (Actually think it might be Avoidant Personality Disorder but I don't want to set anything in stone, yet). I also have traits of GAD and paranoia. I think that the constant anxiety has set off the DPD, yes. There was a time 7 years ago when my SAD was at its worst and I believe that was the onset of my chronic DP/DR. The anxiety seemed a trauma in itself.


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## Minerva8979 (Jan 30, 2010)

I think with DPD, most of us are experiencing comorbid disorders or definitely domino-effect problems. You know? 
My Endocrinologist actually put me on a synthetic hormone supplement, Levothyroxine, and as it turns out, my hypoglycemic attacks and sudden onset of anxiety was caused by a thyroid problem. I believe hypothyroidism caused several hypoglycemic-like attacks related to low blood sugar, alcohol, marijuana, and this caused the end result of constant Depersonalization. Since i've been taking 0.050 mcg of the Levothyroxine I've been feeling much better. No longer have a sense of dread and anxiety, and my Depersonalization feels quite mild. This is really significant for me and others because simple blood tests for thyroid problems led me to this medication. Now...since I was thirteen I've had PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder)and thus rollercoaster depression caused by unbalanced hormones and anxiety problems run in my family. I guess this can be considered comorbid. Maybe if I had addressed my PMDD at an earlier age, my stress levels wouldn't have jeopordized my mind at a stressful event like a hypoglycemic attack. Maybe once my hypothyroidism is under control my DPD will go away. It's all related in my opinion.
So what's up with you?


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## Absentis (Jul 10, 2007)

Depersonalization and derealization can occur because of, or along-side of, a variety of mental and physical ailments. Epilepsy, inner ear disorders, bipolar, temporo-parietal and temporo-occipital lesions, substance abuse, schizophrenia, sensory deprivation... and those are just the ones I can list off the top of my head. DP and DR are experienced much more than you'd think, although it isn't usually chronic.

So yeah, plenty of ways other than trauma and smoking a marijuana cigarette.

(This is probably just me, but I find using that term instead of something like "weed" or "a joint" amusing. Not laugh out loud funny, more of a chuckle.)


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

I think it is a good idea to get checked out biologically, but i really dont think that my DP is caused by anything medically. Now i havent gotten a blood test done in over a year, so i am way overdue. Also, in terms of hormonal related problems, i have PCOS (poly-cystic ovarian syndrome) and was taking medication for that prescribed by an endocrinologist, but i need to go to her again to get the medication again. 
As for for other comorbid disorders, i have major depression, OCD, and Borderline Personality DIsorder, and the doctor that i am working with right now feels that the BPD can trigger Depersonalization, and that it will go away, but i really do not believe her. i mean most of the people on this forum have had it for months, years, some even for decades, so no one can be for sure about it going away.


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## Absentis (Jul 10, 2007)

I think the possibility of DP having a biological origin is plausible. Between hormone imbalances, depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and borderline personality disorder, there's a very good chance that DP is related to something in there.

It is very plausible that depersonalization is a symptom of BPD, and if you go through dialectical behaviour therapy for a couple years the dissociation may subside. As you point out, some people on the board experience it chronically, while others have it in episodes. Even though it may last forever for some people, there's no certainty that it will also happen to you.

I agree that it is a good idea for you to visit your endocrinologist, as you said, and that you shouldn't give up hope with your doctor.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2010)

Absentis said:


> *I think the possibility of DP having a biological origin is plausible. Between hormone imbalances, depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and borderline personality disorder, there's a very good chance that DP is related to something in there.*
> 
> It is very plausible that depersonalization is a symptom of BPD, and if you go through dialectical behaviour therapy for a couple years the dissociation may subside. As you point out, some people on the board experience it chronically, while others have it in episodes. Even though it may last forever for some people, there's no certainty that it will also happen to you.
> 
> I agree that it is a good idea for you to visit your endocrinologist, as you said, and that you shouldn't give up hope with your doctor.


I would say there is MORE than a good chance ...

Personally I am certain this is biological/neurological/medical, whatever you want to call it. The brain is an organ in the body that can malfunction like any other organ. Also, it is known more and more that DP/DR don't occur in a vacuum. The bulk of people have some underlying problem. The weed connection is all part of that. You are ingesting a chemical, as if you were ingesting any other medication. It is going to change how your brain operates.

I have clinical depression, GAD, had OCD traits in childhood, panic attacks, etc. DP/DR are known to follow panic attacks. I know of individuals with serious DP/DR related to bipolar ... one young woman ... the daughter of a friend I just got to know ... who has had bipolar since childhood ... she has tried to take her life twice already. She has such severe DP/DR along with the bipolar that her mother helps her "ground herself" before sleep -- she is afraid to sleep.

I'm not sure why people don't see that this is MEDICAL. If you take a drug, it changes the way your BRAIN functions. Your brain is like the heart, the liver, your pancreas. Why is it that the brain is not considered the same as another physical organ?

There is also a vast amount of research relating to all mental illnesses or disorders that clearly show changes in the brain. Just like an EKG strip can show your heart is beating irregularly compared to the way an "average heart" beats .... fMRIs and other brain scanning techniques show differences in brains of the mentally ill. Post morten dissection of the brains of individuals with brain disorders SHOW physical differences. You simply can't get into a brain when a person is alive unless it is for critical surgery.

The point again is, like any other physical illness, all of this is a matter of degree, of remission, or of a cure. DP/DR is not understood well, but that doesn't mean it won't be understood more in the future.

Deja vu, phantom limb pain, jamais vu, Cotard's syndrome, Capgras syndrome to mention a few are not "psychiatric" -- they are neurological. IMHO, meeting individuals with many mental illnesses and researching this for quite a few years, I am BEYOND certain this is medical/neurological. Because it involves our fears, our emotions our interactions with others ... well that is part of what the brain takes care of ... as well as breathing, controlling all aspects of the body.

Also, how can you explain ingestion of certain antibiotics causing DP/DR in healthy people? Other Rx medications. And why a warning that certain antidepressants and other drugs can cause suicidal thinking. And Ambien for instance causes strange things from sleepwalking, sleep driving, hyper sexuality, all sorts of odd behaviors, again in HEALTHY people.

This is all on a spectrum. Say if someone has cancer -- they may go into remission, they may take chemo and have a very successful cure, or they may die from it eventually? Is this a matter of will? No. But that doesn't mean that making an effort at a healthy lifestyle can't help quality of life. We encourage obese individuals to exercise and eat properly to lower high sugar levels leading to diabetes, high cholesterol, higher risk of stroke, heart attack, etc.

Severity, coping skills, proper meds, proper therapy .... all can lead to improvement.

Can someone explain why people do not see this as a medical disorder? And yes, I came from a very abusive family. I know I lived in constant chaos. But if you put any creature under constant stress, day in and day out, it can affect the HPA- axis, cortisol levels, brain structure ... and they have found how to create "anxious mice" then alter genes/epigenes later and eliminate anxiety.

How can this not be medical? I am certain, in the future, all of our illnesses will be subsumed under neurology. That won't eliminate therapy to cope. Cancer survivors attend therapy to help cope.

There is also a clear connection between many mental illnesses and self-medication with alcohol and rec-drugs. VERY common. I have never taken a rec drug out of fear as I grew up feeling "altered" ... but many experiment with weed, and other more serious drugs to self-medicate. It's called dual diagnosis. Once you look under the substance abuse, you generally mind a mental disorder, then a proper diagnosis and treatment can begin.

Please see: http://www.nami.org and http://www.nkm2.org

The info is out there. Also Dr. Mauricio Sierra's MEDICAL TEXTBOOK exclusively on DP -- Depresonalization: A New Look At a Neglected Syndrome ... there are years of research in neurology and neuropsychiatry pointing to neurological causes of mental disorders -- disabling ones that keep one from social and occupational functioning or hinder ones functioning/ability to enjoy one's life.

And more power to all who find a way to cope.

Best,
D


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2010)

And yes, we know other physical problems can cause these symptoms ... as mentioned thyroid, Lyme disease ... a billion things that affect how the brain operates. OUR BODIES are complex integrated systems. A "malfunction" in one system can cause a "malfunction" in another. Say if the heart doesn't work properly it can deprive the brain of oxygen ... the result can be symptoms (in oder people especially) that appear to be dementia or psychotic behavior. If that is treated and O2 is restored to the brain, the symptoms of dementia/psychotic behavior can be lessened or eliminated.

The adrenals affect our anxiety levels ..... everything is interconnected. You can't really be 100% healthy if any ONE organ fails (save maybe the appendix, and I think you can live without a spleen, live with one lung, etc.).

End of lecture.








Best,
D


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## imfromtheburgh (Mar 5, 2010)

i dont understand when people say dp can be caused by obsessive compulsive disorder i mean ive had obesive compulsive disorder for years and i dont think my dp is caused by that i just dont see how it can be i first noticed my shit from weed but now my ocd is through the roof ever since i got dp before it was pretty bd and then it got mild then it got bad agian


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## Homers_child (Apr 13, 2008)

imfromtheburgh said:


> i dont understand when people say dp can be caused by obsessive compulsive disorder i mean ive had obesive compulsive disorder for years and i dont think my dp is caused by that i just dont see how it can be i first noticed my shit from weed but now my ocd is through the roof ever since i got dp before it was pretty bd and then it got mild then it got bad agian


It's very common for anxiety to trigger DP/DR. And since OCD is an anxiety disorder... It doesn't mean that its the cause for everyone. No one is saying that your DP was caused by OCD, simply that it can in some individuals. DP/DR is a brain defense mechanism, usually against anxiety because it perceives danger. It can happen in episodes whenever there is panic present, or it can be chronic caused by excessive anxiety which is my case.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2010)

Homers_child said:


> It's very common for anxiety to trigger DP/DR. And since OCD is an anxiety disorder... It doesn't mean that its the cause for everyone. No one is saying that your DP was caused by OCD, simply that it can in some individuals. DP/DR is a brain defense mechanism, usually against anxiety because it perceives danger. It can happen in episodes whenever there is panic present, or it can be chronic caused by excessive anxiety which is my case.


Yes, this is the point. For instance they have found that for example anxiety and depression happen to go together. Depressed people are often agitated and anxious, and anxious people can often be depressed. They seem to "co-exist" ... one doesn't "cause the other" -- these are integrated systems.

Again, say someone has bipolar or schizoprhenia they frequently have anxiety as well. Anxiety is a normal part of human existence. It is an "alert mechanism" in people and animals. We NEED anxiety to survive ... it is vigilance when you walk at night in a strange neighborhood, etc. If that NORMAL function moves towards an excessive form -- constant anxiety -- then it becomes MAL-adaptive.

There are so many anxiety disorders (as Homer's Child noted) including OCD .... the underlying anxiety can become so intense ... it can kick of ... this is very simplistic the NORMAL "fight/flight" mechanism. In that state one dissociates to focus on fight or flight ... emotionless ... focusing on survival. "Playing possum." It is helpful in catastrophes ... for survival ... but if this "malfunctions" well -- you've got a problem ... it becomes chronic, it because too severe, etc.

Things are less "caused" than interrelated. Again an obese person can develop diabetes which can lead to kidney failure, etc., etc., etc.

VERY simply, in a computer ... and I am NOT saying the brain or the body is a computer ... we are human beings with a sense of consciousness ... say one code of programming has a glitch, but it doesn't mess with your computer .. you don't notice it. But say you add a program (say an anti-virus program) that isn't quite integrated with the origianl program with the glitch. The two combined might cause your computer to run too slowly, to boot too slowly, or even crash. It's not as simple as A to B to C, but certainly any stressor can add to a final "blown circuit" so to speak.

When one discusses why someone commits suicide ... you look back on a person's life and you see a propensity to be depressed, then say a particular stressor, or stressor enters the picture ... then end result is sort of a complete breakdown in coping.

It's sort of "the perfect storm" ... or say with an airplane crash ... you can't say one thing caused the plane to crash ... it was a series of events human and mechanical ... one event might completely change the outcome. Sully Sullenberger sp? landed a plane in seconds in water. Had HE not been flying a plane (all that experience), had the water not been perfectly calm, had the day not been perfectly clear and sunny, had the flight attendants not been very experienced, had their not been boats in the river to help the passengers immediately, had the plane not responded properly ... many would have died. It isn't ONE thing.

And some of us have a predisposition to dissociate MORE than others. They have found a spectrum for that. On one end some people don't even know what Deja vu is ... they don't understand, have never experienced it. On the other hand it is very common to them. So a certain group of us here have a greater propensity to dissociate and one stressor or another can be the final contributor to a NUMBER of things.

OK, I need a nap.


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## Minerva8979 (Jan 30, 2010)

Insaticiable, I also have polycistic ovaries, which my doctor told me not to be concerned about. I think she's got poor judgment because my ovaries look like polka dots and I have the symptoms of PCOS. I also have (mild) OCD and Tourettes. Who knows if this all plays a part in why I have DP but I surely think it does because our bodies are so complicated.


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

Minerva8979 said:


> Insaticiable, I also have polycistic ovaries, which my doctor told me not to be concerned about. I think she's got poor judgment because my ovaries look like polka dots and I have the symptoms of PCOS. I also have (mild) OCD and Tourettes. Who knows if this all plays a part in why I have DP but I surely think it does because our bodies are so complicated.


Yes, these disorders are all interrelated as Dreamer pointed out. However, i dont know for example if PCOS can cause DP to develop. That just kind of seems...odd. That being said, PCOS can become a very serious condition if left untreated, as you may already know, and can put one at risk of developing diabetes, and there's also a risk of developing certain cancers. So, if you think that you do have PCOS, then it may be wise to get a second opinion from another endocrinologist.


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## Mario (Oct 26, 2009)

Dreamer* said:


> I would say there is MORE than a good chance ...
> 
> Personally I am certain this is biological/neurological/medical, whatever you want to call it. The brain is an organ in the body that can malfunction like any other organ. Also, it is known more and more that DP/DR don't occur in a vacuum. The bulk of people have some underlying problem. The weed connection is all part of that. You are ingesting a chemical, as if you were ingesting any other medication. It is going to change how your brain operates.
> 
> ...


One of the best posts ever


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## Absentis (Jul 10, 2007)

When I re-read my post I realized that I wasn't clear, and I want to clarify my post. I wanted to respond to insaticiable directly when she said that she didn't think _her_ DP was biological. She listed several diagnoses that can have depersonalization as a symptom, so I wanted to politely disagree with her and suggest that she follows-up with blood tests and appointments with her specialists.


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## elcapitan (Mar 6, 2009)

I think it was more than definite that my DP was caused by me suffering really badly from chronic social anxiety.


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