# My DR is starting to go away!



## hanniballexster (Jun 13, 2010)

I had constant, really severe DR for over 2.5 years (still have it to a degree). I came off a whopping dose of paxil and some other meds very suddenly at my idiot ex-doctor's insistence, changed doctors and was tried on... at least 10 different medications in a very short period, including antipsychotics for anxiety. Then I was put on clonazepam (klonopin) 2 mg a day to handle rebound panic attacks. I still got really bad panic attacks on the klonopin (it didn't help that much at all) but my shrink and counsellor both insisted my feelings of "unreality" were anxiety, not med related. I kept insisting that this was NOT how I experienced anxiety.

I have had anxiety disorders since I was a young child, including panic attacks from about the age of 3 and PTSD from younger than 3. I am used to being on hyper-arousal mode, anxious, sweaty palms, all of it. I did get episodes of DP and DR as a kid but they were transient and not nearly as severe. So when this came on I knew in my gut it wasn't "just" anxiety and probably not even "mostly" anxiety. I had no idea what it was because I still trusted my shrink to know the side effects of meds and know about paradoxical reactions to meds, but I kept insisting.

But I wasn't getting anywhere. Zip. And I KNEW something was up and the "it's just anxiety, keep taking x pills" wasn't getting me anywhere so I brought a friend in with me to relate some of my other symptoms, such as stumbling, drooling, walking into doors, spacing out in mid sentence. My shrink snapped to attention when I brought said friend in with me. He decided right then and there that it wasn't anxiety after all, had never been derealization but was medication induced. It took over TWO YEARS of basically telling him that before he saw what, to me, was obvious.

So starting a few months ago, I started tapering off the Klonopin. At first, nada... then on day 11, I felt half way normal for about an hour and a half (I had never felt so normal, for so long in the over 2 years I had been on that junk). But then I was dumb enough to tell him I was quitting smoking so he stopped the taper for the entire month and my previous symptoms returned. Then about half a month ago I dropped down yet another .5 mg.

I rank my "unreality" on a scale of 1-10. On the klonopin at the full dosage I was almost always at a 0 (being the lowest possible, meaning I felt totally out of mind "unreal") and sometimes it would get a teensy bit better, to about .5 mg. I noticed early on that on the days when it managed to get to a mere 1, were the days I had forgotten a dose or two. So it wasn't that hard to put together, but because I am on disability I couldn't just stop without "permission".

So anyway, right now I am on half of my original 2 mg/day dosage. I still haven't reached a five, but I get 2.5s and 3s and even the occasional 4 (maybe, hard to tell)- but I definately notice that my thinking is clearer at times and that this unreal dream feeling is fluctuating a lot more and I am beginning to feel like my old self. This level of "reality" and these sorts of fluctuations NEVER happened before I started tapering down.

I was put on the junk in the first place for panic episodes, and I had so many on them that I still went to the ER about 6 or 8 times in the two years, and other times, many other times, came close to running to the ER, certain I was dying. Since I have tapered down, I am at least as calm as I was on the full dose, and maybe a little calmer even, as strange as that may sound (I most certainly was having a paradoxical effect in addition to being highly sensitive to the sedative effects). My story will not be everyone's and will not help everyone, but if you have been on meds, especially benzos, for years, consider that as a possibility.

People automatically assume that all feelings of DR and DP are anxiety, but meds and medical conditions (besides anxiety) CAN cause this. If you're getting absolutely NOWHERE keep looking for alternative explanations. If I had given up and just accepted my psychiatrist's "expert" advice I KNOW I wouldn't be feeling any better now, and I am getting more and more episodes of feeling slightly more real. I am more convinced than ever now that once I get down another .5 mg and then down to nothing I will see even more changes and feel more real for longer. Benzos can cause prottracted withdrawal, however, so I am not necessarily expecting to feel 100% the second I am off this junk, it might take many months or even a few years before I get back to my previous self. But I have a lot more hope now! A LOT!

As for withdrawing and panic, yes, I have had panic attacks since tapering down. Some bad ones, too. But I had equally bad ones about as often, if not more often, on the Klonopin so... yeah. I also can no longer drink ANY coffee and have to watch the caffiene and I have to stay away from alcohol as I hhave a heart neurosis/phobia and alcohol speeds my heart up and makes me feel worse ultimately. But I am slowly getting better... at least I have been for the last few weeks, I definately see a change for the better in how I percieve the external world.

So, just to reiterate, it's not "always" anxiety, no matter what anybody says. Even if a shrink tells you its "just" anxiety... what do they know? I mean, honestly, they probably have never experienced anything like what you are experiencing, a lot of them think they know how somebody else feels better than the patient themselves which is ridiculous. Trust your gut, get a second opinion and while I agree it's not good to obsess about these symptoms, don't give up looking for answers either.

Also, I might write another post about it, but I am not sure (tired) but Candida infections are very common in North America. AKA yeast infections. Most people will read that and think I am talking about a "personal woman's problem" but I am not. I am talking about a fungus that can invade every organ in your body and is hard to treat. Allopathic doctors aren't trained AT ALL in medical school about it and it has a ton of potential symptoms- I have known about it for years, but never gave it much thought before (partially because I was too spaced out). After hours of looking for symptoms, I learned that it could cause many of the symptoms I was experiencing and do experience, including panic attacks, brain fog and what most people call "DR" and even "DP". I want to buy a supplement called Threelac to see if that helps with my symptoms. If the allopathic system (modern day western medicine) isn't helping you, look to other causes, things they can and WILL miss. Don't give up! Consider seeing a homeopathic doctor because heavy metal poisoning can cause DR and DP symptoms (and the amount that causes symptoms varies from individual to individual- some GPS will test for but miss it in the blood, but homeopaths can test strands of hair). There are a load of toxins and infections that can cause these symptoms, too, including medication (as a toxic substance).

Keep up the good fight guys! I know it feels hopeless at times. I still feel pretty spacy most of the time but am excited to see how I will feel in 2 months or so. Maybe longer if I get withdrawal, but I am definitely getting more periods of feeling slightly more normal, enough that I notice and look around and don't feel so high and spacy and can actually say "I feel about half way back to normal". (Almost half way hard to gauge exactly).

These would be my tips:
1. Go on a cleansing diet/ at least research Candida and the multitude symptoms and if possible see a homeopath or get Threelac (that looks like the best treatment I have seen for it), homeopath can also test for other toxic build ups...
2. Cut out alcohol, minimize coffee (or cut it out entirely).
3. Follow a hypoglycemic diet (high protein, low carb diet, eat small amounts every 2-3 hours in the day time)
4. Take magnesium supplements and consider L-Theanine and other brain boosters.
5. Look at the meds you are taking and consider reducing or tapering off to see if your symptoms improve (single most important thing I have done so far)
6. Don't obsess about the DP/DR but don't stop looking entirely for answers, either. Something might be staring you in the face and you might be missing it because your doctor is just reciting from a book or you are more sensitive or they don't have training in an area.
7. If you have EVER had a head injury, request a full neuro workup, including a SPECT and EEG (my shrink isn't listening to me about the neuro thing, so I might have to wait until I move, which is soon and I get my new GP and request a neuro workup)... SPECT imaging isn't used that often anymore but can be very helpful in actually diagnosing psych and neuro problems as it shows images of the brain as it is working, not just solid images of the brain's structure (anatomy). Most neuro and psych problems (more psych actually) are not anatomically based...

Take care, keep learning, don't think it's hopeless no matter how long you have felt weird or how severe it's been... if your GP or shrink won't listen, try to get another or a second opinion or make some phone calls to a specialist (if you have the means). I think a LOT of my suffering could've been cut YEARS short if my shrink had just LISTENED to me (I still think I should see a neuro as I have had multiple concussions but what do I know?)

Whether your problem is psychological, neurological, medical in some other way (not primarily neurological), a result of toxins or infection or bacteria or fungal overgrowth or medication (drug!) induced, or a combination of some or all of the above, I believe that there is a cure for everyone! You didn't always feel like you do now (if you did, it wouldn't bother you because it would feel "normal") so it stands to reason that if you weren't like this for most of your life, or the first part (or whatever) you can get better!

Lex


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## HatingDP (Nov 29, 2010)

Hi,

Awesome to hear that you are starting to feel better, warms me up










I recently joined this forum as you can see, and reading stories like these makes me feel good. And thanks for the tips, will try to have them in mind.

Take care


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## Dyna (May 13, 2010)

Hi hanniballexster, great to finally hear you have having some improvements after all this time. Ar eyou taking any other meds besides the Klonopin? Best wishes, Dyna


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## hanniballexster (Jun 13, 2010)

Dyna said:


> Hi hanniballexster, great to finally hear you have having some improvements after all this time. Ar eyou taking any other meds besides the Klonopin? Best wishes, Dyna


I am taking an anticonvulsant called epival, but I don't have epilepsy. I want to ask my shrink about weaning off that when I am done with the klonopin. I don't want ANY drugs in my body... I need a clean slate to see what is caused by drugs.

I was feeling a lot better about a week ago (I was having fluctuations) but this week they have seemed to stall. Hopefully they will come back. The good news is that I didn't get fluctuations like that at ALL before I started tapering off... not sure why this week I haven't fluctuated more. I might have to wait until I am off Klonopin entirely, and then wait several months (or possibly years) after that. But as long as it fuctuates again so I know I am in the right direction, that is good.

its soo annoying feeling so groggy, sleepy and having trouble with memory and everything looking a bit distorted (but I also feel very sleepy and groggy which is messin gthings up- not typical grogginess though, hard to explain)

So this week has me a bit down, but hopefully my brain will start to fluctuate again. Later guys. lex


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## Dyna (May 13, 2010)

hanniballexster said:


> I am taking an anticonvulsant called epival, but I don't have epilepsy. I want to ask my shrink about weaning off that when I am done with the klonopin. I don't want ANY drugs in my body... I need a clean slate to see what is caused by drugs.
> 
> I was feeling a lot better about a week ago (I was having fluctuations) but this week they have seemed to stall. Hopefully they will come back. The good news is that I didn't get fluctuations like that at ALL before I started tapering off... not sure why this week I haven't fluctuated more. I might have to wait until I am off Klonopin entirely, and then wait several months (or possibly years) after that. But as long as it fuctuates again so I know I am in the right direction, that is good.
> 
> ...


Good luck and try and stay positive!


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