# Fully recovered: here are some tips.



## newdude1234 (Jan 10, 2009)

Hey, y?all. I got severe DP/DR about six months ago (along with Depression, Panic Disorder, and, gulp, HPPD) from an acid trip. The first to vanish was the depression, then the panic, then, finally, after a grueling but weirdly imperceptible period of rigorous activity, the DP/DR. (I do still see glowing lights now and then, but I try not to think about it.) I?ve felt quite good, apart from the visuals, for one or two months now.

When I first visited this forum, I remember identifying with just about everything anyone wrote. I?d read something, identify with it, and isolate myself from the non-DP world, ad infinitum. I felt stupid, confused, emotionally numb, and as if the only people I?d ever see myself in, for a while, were the slow, hurt, aching ones, damaged by something or other. As for the usual treatments, I tried benzos (sporadically wonderful but addictive and dangerous), SSRIs (killed the depression but took the DP to a whole new level), was hospitalized for a week (ugh), and in therapy for two months (which gradually turned from seeming like a precious lifeboat to a laughable endeavor). While my world may be visually altered for quite some time to come, I can look back on all my DP agony?tears, frustration, loss of self, alienation, whatever the hell it was?with sweet relief.

Here?s how I killed my DP:

?	First, quit Paxil, or any other SSRI, if you?re on it, in my humble opinion. Couldn?t even tell if I was making progress when that drug so profoundly altered my consciousness for the worse.
?	Work out fairly regularly, probably about five days a week on average. Running, weightlifting, didn?t really matter which.
?	Despite feeling like an idiot 24/7, talk in class whenever you get the chance. (I?m in my senior year getting a B.A. in Film.) If you?re having trouble motivating yourself, get philosophical, as DP no doubt encourages you to do, in a productive way: if nothing is real, then it hardly matters whether you embarrass yourself when you speak out in class, for example, so do it, and keep doing it. Eventually, normal anxiety will replace DP anxiety as you adjust to social pressures. Trust that this adjustment will have to take place over a long period of time, and keep working at it, all the time.
?	Talk to non-DP friends, every day, for long periods of time. AIM is okay, phone is better, in person is best. At first, I had to struggle to have a conversation with one of my best friends for over 15 minutes. Generally try to avoid talking about DP, but if it comes up once or twice, no biggie. The difference between those who recover and those who don?t, it seems to me, may be the difference between learning to accept your occasional slip-ups and assigning them to some bigger problem. Don?t give up even if giving up seems like the obvious thing to do. I was suicidal for probably about three months straight when I had DP. Contradict that supposed obviousness; do it again, and again, and again, all day long. It will pay off.
?	For some reason, this seems to me the most important part of my recovery: read a lot of emotionally complex literature (George Eliot, J.M. Coetzee, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Dreiser, Stendhal), listen to emotionally complex music (Elliott Smith, Neil Young, The Beatles, Beethoven, Handel, Gene Clark, Richard Thompson), and watch emotionally complex films (Howard Hawks, Eric Rohmer, Maurice Pialat, Alan Clarke, John Ford, Leo McCarey). These guys know human nature inside out, and they will reteach it to you if you need to relearn it. They have been to some dark places, and some good ones too. Paying $10 for a copy of Anna Karenina might do you more good than shelling out $200 for top-end CBT. Experiencing these artists? work regularly, for me, meant regaining my ?ego,? which ultimately turned out to be a curiosity about, rather than a fear of, human nature. As with everything else, it took a few months for everything to become clear again. But, being an artist, I?m grateful for nothing else quite so much as the ability to identify with moral complexity.
?	Don?t make excuses for yourself. On my worst days, I thought that not only did I have DP, I must have OCD, because DP was making me obsess over stupid, ridiculous things. In retrospect, that was either bullshit, or my ?temporary OCD? is gone. (For example, my current anxiety consists of being mildly insecure about not making it out to the gym much lately. Was I damned to eternally weird obsessions? Not so much.) I also had bipolar rapid cycling for a bit, on Paxil: I?d go from feeling suicidal to on top of the world back to suicidal in, oh, a couple hours. It seemed that with this huge array of mental conditions piling up around me, there was no way I could ever beat DP. But I did. And you can, too.
?	Stay away from this website. Make a vow to yourself that if you?re tempted to visit it, you?ll have a substitute: call a friend, read a book, exercise. (But again, it?s okay if you make a few slip-ups. I did too.) I ?banned? myself from this site for about four months, then came back and realized there was nothing to fear anymore. All these things I identified with before so intensely now seems kind of reasonable, but also kind of ridiculous. I can look at it either way, which is what?s important. My running joke is that this site should be called ?dpselfharm.com,? because after an initial period of research and preparation for recovery, there is nothing helpful about it. Identifying with others who have DP on a regular basis will only hold you back from the life you deserve. I don?t visit the HPPD forum for the same reason I think current DPers shouldn?t hang out here.
?	Fake it! Pretend to be normal. Lie, lie, lie, lie. Repression is a healthy part of life. Wholeheartedly embrace social conventions even if you feel on a gut level that they are utterly absurd. Those lies will eventually become a philosophically vague but emotionally solid kind of truth.

That?s all for now.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

> ? Stay away from this website.


Very good post.

if you use this site the right way it a positive ans useful tool.

There is a buch of reasons.If you care ask me.

Running away from DP is not the fastest way to get rid of the f-cker.


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## newdude1234 (Jan 10, 2009)

I guess my bluntness was a bit harsh, Mark. I did find some comfort in the recovered people who posted here, which is why, now that I'm recovered, I'm coming back to do my part. I'd be interested to hear your take on the useful aspects of the forum. It's the identification that I object to, not the forum itself. And that identification does have to be gradually weaned off, rather than severed, per se.

I should add that it really helped me to have had a friend to talk to who had recovered from short-term but intense DP.


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

I have done all the things you suggested and my DP did not go away. I'm convinced now that medication and therapy are the only things that will "cure" me.


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## newdude1234 (Jan 10, 2009)

As for medication, that's pretty subjective stuff. I remember that being on SSRIs made it very hard for me to be in touch with my natural emotional reactions, because "contentment" was so bizarrely unmotivated, so chemical. Some people differ. My ex-girlfriend was a big Zoloft advocate when she was on it: she said it made her life manageable. She recently quit, and is feeling better than ever. So perspectives can change.

Re: therapy, for me, the confessional atmosphere of therapy was like a stepping stone to ordinary social interaction. I realized I should quit therapy not when I felt fully recovered, but when I felt like in some ways I had sharper instincts than my therapist and was beginning to find her predictable.

Friends gave me one ineffable, wonderful thing a therapist couldn't: a sense of equal footing, a sense that each person is obligated to the other in exactly the same way.

I think if you asked me, after I'd been working at it for three months straight, if I had made any real progress, I wouldn't have been too sure. I even had paranoid fantasies that those who had said they recovered were faking it in order to encourage sufferers to pretend that they can get better. But I am... that's all I can really say. Constant faith in the idea that your deepest instincts can change is essential. I did give up on myself, over and over again... it seemed like it would go on forever. But if you're persistent, episodes of despair will gradually cease to matter, and then fade entirely.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

BTW it is very generous and thoughtful of you to come back and give us your tips.

Let't do the entire post because I think it is so good (who do I think I am).

- Paxil. That stuff is strange. They must be doing some heavy lobbying. So many problems especially in young people.
However if you have DP you go into instant terror at first. This can lead to depression amongst other things. I nice safe SSRI would be something that I would auto automatically give to a freshly DPed person. Low dose at first. Easy to get off. Wellbutran(sp) or something.
I also think that automatically Clonazepan in a low does should be given.. Panic leads to total life destruction and more panic.

- Working out is just the best thing. It is almost crucial. I am going to open a DPD boot camp.

-"Despite feeling like an idiot 24/7, talk in class whenever you get the chance. (I?m in my senior year getting a B.A. in Film.) If you?re having trouble motivating yourself, get philosophical, as DP no doubt encourages you to do, in a productive way: if nothing is real, then it hardly matters whether you embarrass yourself when you speak out in class, for example, so do it, and keep doing it. Eventually, normal anxiety will replace DP anxiety as you adjust to social pressures. Trust that this adjustment will have to take place over a long period of time, and keep working at it, all the time."

This is just great stuff. That's such a good idea. If you gonna question life you might as well find out that the smartest people in the world have not figured it out either. This is like mental exersise.

-"Talk to non-DP friends, every day"
Engaging with people without DP is very important. Especially people who do not know that you have anything - it fun in a way. They just think you are normal and they like you! Pick these people carefully - don't get hurt.

- OK you are blowing my already blown mind. "copy of Anna Karenina might do you more good than shelling out $200 for top-end CBT" So f-cken true. Wait till you pay $450. to Dr Simeon who might know less than you do! 
I would like to add, if you have psychiatrist that understands you and your condition you have the bet treatment. Don't bother with a specialist. They know nothing more than what you can read in a couple of hours from Dreamers* 's Google info.

- "It seemed that with this huge array of mental conditions piling up around me, there was no way I could ever beat DP. But I did. And you can, too."
Take you time. Muster up your courage and kick the sh-t out of your DP. It is entirely possible for anyone to take control of it. It takes time to get to a point where you can successfully take the fear out of it. Once that's done you are on your way.

-"Fake it! Pretend to be normal. Lie, lie, lie, lie. Repression is a healthy part of life."
My GP once said to me "a little bit of denial goes a long way"
Pretending to be normal is important in many ways. One way I found the most helpful was I turned it into a game - I won every time and got stronger and stronger. This is so important.

About this site.
I owe this place my life as it is today. Mostly recovered.
I you use it to look up things that stoke your morbid feelings it could be a problem.
If you use it to make friends, help others (especially the desperate who have just gotten DP/DR0, post questions and read posts like yours, then it is the best place in the world to go too. You are not alone. You are not alone.
I could go on but you get the point.

We should open a free clinic.
Such an important post for people to read.

I would like to add one more thing.

If the whole DP experience is given a number - lets say 100 - the DP is 25. Depression, anxiety, panic, confusion, horror, helplessness, loneliness, stress, your first DP Xmas, kids that you don't feel for, parents who mean nothing to you - all of that sh-t is the other 75.

First get rid of that 75 and you will be surprised how much you are "feeling" with DP.
The so called specialists have this all f-cked up. Even with the worst possible DP that you can get I was clear of the 75 I have plenty of feelings and love.
DP can not kill that. Depression and panic kills all.

Getting DP is like having a gun against your head. Your brain is under attack. Nobody cares about anything with a gun against their head.

Once that is gone.
I took on the DP.
Faced it and brought on the horror. Thousands of times in the last 6 months. "Bring it on you little disgraceful prick" Personalize your depersonalization. HEHE
Over and over again and I would bring it out and say "I AM MARK SO FUCK YOU. YOU CAN"T MAKE ME SCARED."
I do this while doing 3 hours of exercise a day.

DP goes down to just an experience. Raw and ready to disappear.
DP grows in he dark. Shed some light on it and it shrinks.

Good luck to everyone.
I do not believe that we are being given good direction.
newdude1234 you are a hero in my books. Way to go
This ^^^^^^^ is a good direction. 
If anyone else has another one that helps - please lets hear it.


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## newdude1234 (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks Mark! I appreciate that my post did some good. You seem like you?re at a pretty good place and it looks like things should only get better for you at this point.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

newdude1234 said:


> Thanks Mark! I appreciate that my post did some good. You seem like you?re at a pretty good place and it looks like things should only get better for you at this point.


Every God Damn Day!!


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

you two would make a great team.  you guys know exactly what's going on with that little dp man. right on. keep up the good work. you like dostoevsky eh? good stuff.


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## kaja (Dec 19, 2008)

Thanks guys! I also think this site is a really good support, as long as you dont pity yourself and dont exchange negative thoughts with other people who jutst want to say how bad they are. Everyday I try to find here only positive things, not to make other people worry more, just because i have a bad day. That is why I ussually go immediately to the recovery section - to use only those experiences, that can make me feel stronger. Thanks for all the possitive posts!


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## cyberafrica (Feb 14, 2008)

Hi,

Excellent advice and good post, but still I agree with Mark, 75% of recovery is getting rid of the fear, which is a process.

A DP Boot Camp and Clinic is also a great idea!

Lets make 2009, beat DPD year!

Cheers,

CyberA


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

cyberafrica said:


> Hi,
> 
> Excellent advice and good post, but still I agree with Mark, 75% of recovery is getting rid of the fear, which is a process.
> 
> ...


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

cyberafrica said:


> Hi,
> 
> Excellent advice and good post, but still I agree with Mark, 75% of recovery is getting rid of the fear, which is a process.
> 
> ...


That a great idea.
It's meek little ass is waiting to be kicked!!
Mark


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## amandamac (Jan 13, 2009)

So true. "if nothing is real, then it hardly matters whether you embarrass yourself when you speak out in class, for example, so do it, and keep doing it."

I agree with almost everything you've said. I've considered taking medication though. I'd never take Paxil as I took it when I was in my teens and it drove me crazy (well, not literally). I have a prescription of Lexapro that I'm still deciding if I should use.

I have found Clonazepam to be very helpful (I feel about 50% better, which is a lot to me) but I don't like that it makes me feel tired and weak. Xanax relaxes my mind but doesn't stop the symptoms.

B12 on the other hand, WONDERFUL. I'd recommend that anyone suffering with this get a shot of B12 from your doctor (better than any pill you can buy). Whenever I get it, I feel almost normal for about 2 days. It always goes away of course, but those two days are fantastic.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

amandamac said:


> So true. "if nothing is real, then it hardly matters whether you embarrass yourself when you speak out in class, for example, so do it, and keep doing it."
> 
> I agree with almost everything you've said. I've considered taking medication though. I'd never take Paxil as I took it when I was in my teens and it drove me crazy (well, not literally). I have a prescription of Lexapro that I'm still deciding if I should use.
> 
> ...


Can you shoot your own butt with b12?
Hemophiliacs can give themselves needles.
When are we going to get a f-cken break.
I will take B12 everyday in my ass cheek if it helps just a bit.


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

That's interesting, Amanda. I've seen quite a few DP sufferers get relief from B vitamins. I wonder what the connection is. Sometimes I wish I was a psychiatrist so I could conduct my own studies on DP! We should all go to med school and create our own guild of DP researchers! lmao


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

Mark said:


> amandamac said:
> 
> 
> > So true. "if nothing is real, then it hardly matters whether you embarrass yourself when you speak out in class, for example, so do it, and keep doing it."
> ...


*Hey Kenny. How do I grind up B12 pills and shoot them in my ass*


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Mark said:


> *Hey Kenny. How do I grind up B12 pills and shoot them in my ass*


Mark, you make me laugh! :lol:


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

invisible.ink said:


> Mark said:
> 
> 
> > *Hey Kenny. How do I grind up B12 pills and shoot them in my ass*
> ...


*I am trying to get into your pants - more precisely, what is in your pants when you wear them.(I am not talking about you what?s in your pockets)*


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

lol You'd have a hard time convincing my husband to let you do that.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

invisible.ink said:


> lol You'd have a hard time convincing my husband to let you do that.


I can do is charm with jokes
I know.
I have that covered.
First I would hypnotize you.\ and make you act like a chicken.
Your husband and I would become drinking buddies while watching you do the chicken dance.

At this point I would drug him. When he passes out, I would put him too bed.
Then would de-hypnotize you and we would talk.
I would conclude that you loved your husband and not lay a hand on you because I know that you would reject my advances - Your loyalty and love for your husband can not be crushed by DPD.
However, I will get what a want.
An evening of your undivided attention and some material to masturbate about when I get home.
So, there it is.


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Mark said:


> invisible.ink said:
> 
> 
> > lol You'd have a hard time convincing my husband to let you do that.
> ...


Mark the Mastermind. lol


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

We have hijacked this post. How can we link harmless masturbation in with recovery?
I will leave that to you Invisible - I have an appointment with my shrink - no joke


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## invisible.ink (Feb 2, 2007)

Well, let's see. Masturbation can help distract you from DP/DR therefore it can be considered conducive to recovery. lmao However, frequent masturbation presents the risk of developing carpal tunnel syndrome. :lol:


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## newdude1234 (Jan 10, 2009)

Feel kinda silly going on about recovery amidst this bizarre hilarity, but...

peachyderanged:

Dostoevsky was one of my heroes during the DP experience. Some of us have felt that when we got DP we were wasting the prime of our lives. Well, here's a dude who spent five of his younger years in a grueling prison and went on to make at least four of the greatest works of art ever. He may not have had DP, but his example is one of many that shows how we can let debilitating experiences inspire rather than cripple us. I plan to make a movie about my DP days in the future, and it won't be anything like that Matthew Perry thing I refuse to watch...

Mark:

I might need some convincing that a DP boot camp would get to the heart of the problem. Recovery, for me, was all about personal identity formation, which I think would be hard in a camp setting, which usually emphasizes a sense of community. One of my biggest fears during DP was that I'd be forced to become some kind of happy-go-lucky social butterfly in order to recover, which I had prided myself on not being prior to it. Thankfully, that didn't happen: I'm still weird, but in a normal way... if that makes any sense.

That said, I'd love to hear ideas for such a camp. Anything to reduce the amount of struggling that people have to go through with this thing sounds good to me.

Amanda:



> I have found Clonazepam to be very helpful (I feel about 50% better, which is a lot to me) but I don't like that it makes me feel tired and weak. Xanax relaxes my mind but doesn't stop the symptoms.


I guess I have mixed feelings about meds on the whole: short-term stints were crucial to my recovery, but after a certain point I think they become a crutch. (Much like therapy, in my experience.) During those first few days, lorazepam felt like a lifesaver, but withdrawal was one of the most horrific experiences of my life. Paxil withdrawal wasn't so bad, but then a lot of people seem to have had horrible Paxil withdrawal experiences, so I consider myself lucky...



> B12 on the other hand, WONDERFUL. I'd recommend that anyone suffering with this get a shot of B12 from your doctor (better than any pill you can buy). Whenever I get it, I feel almost normal for about 2 days. It always goes away of course, but those two days are fantastic.


I made a habit of downing those Naked Blue Machine smoothies on a regular basis when I had DP... I guess in theory they had a positive effect on DP, but I just think of them as compulsively drinkable and delicious now.


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## Mr.A454 (Dec 8, 2008)

Props Newdude awesome post!


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## Obviously (Jan 6, 2009)

newdude1234


> I plan to make a movie about my DP days in the future, and it won't be anything like that Matthew Perry thing I refuse to watch...


I'm getting BA in Film as well! If you ever need sound design for this film I'm your man!


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Did someone mention fapping?


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## 4yrsnwaiting (Jan 30, 2009)

Thank you. I'm an artist too. ur post is real to me. thanks a lot.


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## 4yrsnwaiting (Jan 30, 2009)

Thank you. I'm an artist too. ur post is real to me. thanks a lot. I've been suffering with this for 4 years, and I'm trying to figure a way out. your post is helpful. thank you, again.


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