# How I recovered in a scientific way of dp/dr



## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi everyone,

It has been a while and it has been a long journey to finding a solution to get rid of my dp/dr.

I d like to share my story because I did find my answers after a long, expensive search for answers and solutions.

It might be a long read but I would like people to see how the journey has been and maybe some can relate and can get hope out of this.

My dp/dr started in february of 2012 after a holiday where i did drink a lot of alcohol partying like lots of people.

The last day there i woke up and really felt something was different. Anxious and felt like the plug was pulled and did not feel connected.

Travelled back home and next day went for a walk and got panix/anxiety attack because i felt like i was not a part of reality anymore. I could not make sense of what i saw, like the walls of a building came through differently and i felt like i was loosing it hence the panic attacks. It really felt like something had snapped and that i was disconnected.

I thought it just must be a coming down of all the alcohol i drank. I also did marihuana and other drugs before partying etc...I got paranoide from smoking weed or doing cocaine before but this was nothing like it. I walked around with it for 2 weeks but it did not get better so went to a psychiatrist. He said i probably had brain damage because of all the alcohol and also the drugs i might have used in the past and that this was the straw that broke my camels brain...he gave me an anti-psychotic called Fluanxol (Flupentixol) which helped a bit because it numbed me. I took max 3mg and then 2mg, schizofrenic people take up to 20mg. Had to get an MRI but it did not show anything.

After 4 weeks had to go back to work, i worked as a travel rep abroad. My boss said it best: "You ve changed, the spark in your eyes has gone." Broke my heart to hear that because he was right on the money. After 4 weeks i got dark and suicidal thoughts. I lived and worked on Lanzarote that time so no reason really to get that thoughts before was always enjoying the life in all it s aspects there. I always had the feeling had snapped inside my head since that drinking binge on holiday.

Anyhow I had to tell my boss i could not manage anymore. Flew back to Belgium, psychiatrist said i had a depression. Huh? So one day enjoying partying on holiday and next day in a depression? That did not make sense to me. Don t get me wrong I believe you can get a deprseeion but not that drastic one day from the next. Anyhow he put me on different kinds of anti-depressants. First Cipralexa, which was like the warm up. Did not do anything. Then Cymbalta that gave me heart palpitations, then Efexor that was more like champions league. Gave me all sorts of side effects. Could not sleep anymore heart palpitations etc...so i called the psychiatrist and he said to double the dosage. Huh? Then I really got scared because this stuff was making me worse not better. So he put me on Sertraline (i think that s Zoloft), which helped a bit but made me gain weight significantly.

I went to a clinic for 2 months to deal with my"depression/addiction". In my humble opinion they did not really know what was my problem. It only got worse and the derealisation was the worst when i woke up. I also slept for 10 hours and also during the day. I really did not recognize myself in the mirror. My eyes looked like i was a zombie. And the spark was definetely gone. And then i also got obsesssed about it. I kept looking for answers though on the internet. Where did this come from and other people must experience the same no?

Then I started reading online about dp/dr and this forum and also a Dutch forum (I m from Belgium). Went to a meeting of dp/dr in Holland and signed up on the forums where i saw i was not the only one with this but more astoundingly that little was known about this. The different triggers involved weed induced, anxiety induced, trauma induced etc...I read the few books out there about dp/dr and eventually read about Dr Mauricio Sierra. Persistently kept writing him how I could get a consultation with him in the Kings College London. After a long waiting period and 400pounds I did get my consultation. Very kind and interesting doc who told me actually that they do not really know a lot about dp/dr or how to treat it. Lamotrigine 400mg was an option which i started taking(build up) together with the Fluanxol 2 mg. Wellbutrin was also an option.

But did not really help the dp/dr and suicidal pieces stayed and it was a hell to live in. And could not cope with it really.

In november 2012 my therapist spoke about some brain analysis and treatment she saw in London on a convention. She put me in contact with the person and I wrote her and she sent me an article about what she did and the details of this Dr Cripe in the USA who helped her. Sarah Graham was her name, a psychologist who had brain issues because of alcohol abuse. I wrote this Dr Cripe and he replied swiftly saying that he already helped several people with dp/dr in identifying what the problem was. He used to work for NASA, has a double PhD and after NASA started to help people and for him the brain is just good science and looks at it in a neuro engineering way.

So I though f*ck it I m going it s this or lights out (luckily I could afford this)...So I flew to Arizona and he took a "brainmap", qEEG with specific software to analyse and map the different networks of the brain and see how it s all connected. Conclusion was i had micro-seizure activity causing the suicidal pieces and in imbalance between my two brain hemispheres which cause the dp/dr. Apparantly this imbalance of the two hemispheres causes the sensation of being disconnected and not being present. That in itself was already a victory because people said, you re weak Tim you should just go back to work and it will all be fine. Don t think about it. Lol. Yeah I prefer sitting at home feeling suicidal and disconnected instead of working and enjoying life...duh. But I understand that people cannot understand what they don t feel but sometimes I would not have so much empathy. He also stated that one part of the brain was weakened and not working properly because of the weed i smoked even if it was like 5 years before when i smoked my last joint. That also blew me away I thought some marihuana won t do me any harm. But yeah maybe I fooled myself a bit in the river of denial.

So I started to do Dr Cripe his program which is braintraining. Reconnecting the braincircuits so the brain gets stronger and the disconnect is reconnected. I thought in the beginning it was a lot of blablabla. But after a month of doing the braintraining with Dr Cripe over skype and the sensors on my head 3 days a week and also doing other exercises every day. After a month I woke up and the suicidal pieces were gone. I still did not feel well and the dp/dr was there but not suicidal anymore...and it stayed because i was wary whether it would stay or not.

He advised me to stop the Lamotrigine if the psychiatrist approved. By the way my psychiatrist said on my first trip that this is top notch stuff. Hence I stopped the Lamotrigine or winded it down. But i got worse again, suicidal again and in hell again. So started the Lamotrigine again and flew back for a brainmap. Result the micro seizures were reduced with 75 percent but the cause had to come from somewhere else, metabollic issues. So he referred me to a triple degree doc who investigates the body completely with different testing through docters data lab in the USA. Dr Altman is his name. Testing were blood, feces, urine etc...I thought this is all BS they just want to take my money and I live quite healthy apart from the drinking. I eat a lot of fish like Tuna and do sports etc...

The result two weeks later blew me away: Heavy metal poisoning: mercury, cadmium, arsenic and lead. The first three were off the charts and that was also quite scary. Where did this come from? I do not have amalgams? I did eat a lot of Tuna and fish? Apparantly my body does not methylate well and hence all this metals pile up over the years and the alcohol binge of severeal days on holiday dehydrated me and upped the level of metals which broke through a clinical threshold and made my brain kind of snap or some connection in one of the networks.

When I flew back excited to tell my psychiatrist that I had found the cause. He was not so thrilled as I was. He said I had to take my responisability that I was an alcoholic and that I have braindamage and should accept this fact. Huh? I did not drink any drop ever since that holiday so I could not understand why he reacted like that. Also the insurance company of my employer did not believe this and stopped my sick pay and I had to go back to work. They said if you have mercury poisoning your hair should fall out etc...yeah sure if I would drink a liter of it directly like I did with the beer but if this is piled up over time then not...So that was also a wake up call to see that not everybody is on board with this!

But I persisted and flew back to the USA for 9 weeks to do chelation. IV s with EDTA to get the metals out. EDTA is more for Arsenic, Cadmium and Lead and has a second affinity for mercury. After these 9 weeks another brain map showed that the micro seizures were gone which was a hallelujah moment. The dp/dr was still there but more livable but still not really enjoying lief but not suicidal anymore and could stop the Lamotrigine. Went back to work in Belgium and started doing chelation with DMSA orally which has the affinity to chelate the mercury out of the body. (There is also DMPS but that did not work for me because it passes the blood brain barrier and knocked me off my feet twice so Iprefer the DMSA). So I went back to work abroad in Fuerteventura as a rep and towards november 2013 I could laugh again a bit. Still on the fluanxol and still dr but already in the right direction. Did another brainmap which showed that the imbalance in my two hemispheres was getting better. I did an EEG in Spain as well which showed the same issues so another confirmation that what i was doing was working and true!.

Fast forward 2014 I felt better again and the hemispheres were balanced again and could enjoy seeing a sunset again for example. I did have to continue with the braintraining in total for a year (three times a week an hour and after a while once a week to make it strong enough so it would stay) but that amount of time differs apparantly from brain to brain. I didn t care I wanted to live again!

I always told my psychologist and other people we have to get this available in Belgium or Europe you knwo. But nobody really listened or wanted to do this. In 2016 I had some mental problems again. Anxiety, obsessed etc... so I flew back in 2017 to get another brainmap. Dr Cripe said: Your brain has the signature of gut problems. Huh? say what? Got that checked and yes, Candida infestation and an infestation of Klebsiella and Enterobacter bacteria. Blown away again. The fact that i took five times antibiotics the year before might have to do with it...duh. Had to take care of that which was also eye opening how the gut is connected to the brain etc...but that s another story.

In january 2017 I was able to stop the Fluanxol, that took me 2 years to get rid off and I took it almost 5 years, powerful stuff. But free of it now but it did help me to get through the most heavy time.

Now in 2017 I ran into a neuropsychologist, better said she was put on my path and she did have ears to what Dr Cripe does and wanted to make this available together with me in Belgium and Europe because it was only available in the USA. So I have set up an enterprise since July last year and now since January 2018 we have clients who are doing the program of Dr Cripe which exists in first identifying the problems with an qEEG brainmap and then making the brainnetworks stronger again with the braintraining. If the brainmaps shows that there is nothing to be done then we won t sugarcoat people and just take their money. We just want them to get well. We have a long term vision of making this vailable for everybody who wants to go the distance in getting well and getting prices down and insurances involved but that will take time. Yes I m an idealist and a lot of people will say this is a sales pitch like they did on the Dutch DP forum which I also supported a lot when it got started the second time.

Frankly I do not really care if people think that, I/we focus on those people who do look further for solutions and have the willpower and stamina to find answers and going the distance to get better or well.

Currently we are doing a pilot study together with a company for Burn-Out which is a major problem in Belgium and thus hopefully getting more recognition and thus more reserach and so on...again it is a long term project but if we can get one person out of the same hell I was in it s already a succes and then I know it was worth moving back from Lanzarote to Belgium to do this.

But we need this study to get rid of the VAT and further to get insurances involved etc...

This is a tool which helps people with all kinds of issues depression, anxiety, addiction, chemobrain, autism etc...

Again dp/dr is the unknown and we hope to identify more and more on what the problems are which sometimes can be the cause of the dp/dr. There might be other stuff playing.

I m not saying this is an all cure for dp/dr but it did got rid of my dp/dr.

And one of my dreams would be to do a pilot study for dp/dr. I will also be writing to Dr Mauricio Sierra in Colombia to see whether his view on this and hopefully he is open to what we do.There are more and more studies coming out now that braintraining helps against several issues, the time is now.

Again I know this sounds like I m selling something but I m not a billionaire who can make this available for free for everyone BUT we do hope to make a change going forward on making this a tool that will be recognized and used in healthcare...I was fortunate enough to be able to pay for my quest in getting well hence I m on this quest now to give back what I got long term...step by step.

I also asked the administrator if it was ok to share my story and i was told to go for it. So here it is.

Anyhow that is my story, it s a long read but i wanted to be as thourough as I could and then I m not even mentioning all the other stuuf I tried during my search for answers...there is a lot of stuff out there. Some of it might work for others.

Below there is some more information. If you think this is interesting I advise you to do your own research dont just take my word for it but learn for yourself. If then you re still interested and have questions or would like more infromation send me a pm.

Thank you for having this forum still up and running and alowwing me to share my story.

I wish you all the best and keep persisting in looking for answers and getting well or better!

kind regards Tim

p.S.

Here is some information on Dr Cripe and his program in the USA

www.smartbrainsolutions.com

And here is some information on our enterprise in Belgium/Europe

www.truebrainpotential.com


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

Hey you're post is really intriguing thanks for sharing! First off I want to say that your journey sounds amazing and also overwhelming to think of how much you had to do to find answers. I am a bit confused on some of things you said however. At the end you are talking as if the brain training program you did cured your dp/dr but it sounds like it was only a small piece? How much do you attribute your recovery to brain training and how much of it was from the metal detox and gut healing? You even say after completing months of brain training your dp/dr was still there? And suddenly at the end of your post you say it cured your dp? Are you really fully recovered?


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi DPD fighter,

I tried not to write too much but also tried to be thourough to tell the whole story. But i could have written lots more.

So I hope my answers here are more clarifiyng.

First of all my first brainmap with DR CRipe was the KEY to my recovery. Because it identified the problems.

Being first of all these micro seizures. These micro seizures were healed by the braintraining. The micro seizures were the cause of the suicidal pieces and contributed to the dp/dr. The main culprit of the dp/dr was the imbalance between my two brainhemispeheres. The theory is that the alcohol dehydrated me during this alcolic binge of 10 days which upped the concnetration of the heavy metals, this broke through a clinicl threshold wich caused the micro seizures and also the imbalance between the hemispeheres.

So first step wes first brainmap which showed the imbalance and the micro seizures. The micro seizures had to be fixed first because it was the most critical part. Then when that was not completely done Dr Cripe said that alcohol alone could not be the cause so he sent me to this doc who identified the heavy metals.

During the chelation it was important to keep doing the braintraining which is actually a reinforcement of the braincircuits and makes stronger connections or repairs connections for me it made a necessary new connection with these micro seizures. The road of chelation was a long one and i have to start again and also i did not drink or drug eversince because i do not want to go back to the sucidal dp/dr. But i can say that my dr/dp is now recovered yes. I can enjoy a sunset again and such and before i could not grasp it or feel connected or anything. So the suicidal pieces went away first and then the dp/dr after a longer period of time and that was because of the chelation combined with the braintraining but the last dp/dr period i did not have to train that much anymore. But hey if Dr Cripe would have said if you walk naked on the town square for 30 min and you ll be cured of dp/dr and the suicidal pieces i would also have done it.

The good thing about Dr Cripe his program is that it is really two parts. You do not need to think about braintraining or so after you have had the brainmap and the report of findings with Dr Cripe. And then he will look and explain to you and with you what is going on and what can be done. He does not sugarcoat it i call that being honest and he only works with people who want to get well otherwise it s just taking people s money.

If you have more questions please ask them.


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

By the way dpd fighter what is this IDS? study of dpd?

I m hoping in the future to do a study with dp/dr people to see what the brainmaps look like. But that s not for now but that is really a goal going forward so if you have more information on that please share! thank you


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi Autonomic Space Monkey,

Thank you for the kind words and support!

What s your story if youd like to share it?

And yours too DPfighter?


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

A S M you ve been through hell.

I am inspired by your positive vibe and sense of reality in what must be a difficult state of mind to be in and having had a rough ride.

Good to hear that the anxiety is gone, that s a b anxiety.

What s your daily life now?

Can you function? Work? Sleep?

In recovery?

What is your biggest concern or what are your most debilitating symptoms if you do not mind me asking?


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

timzie said:


> Hi DPD fighter,
> 
> I tried not to write too much but also tried to be thourough to tell the whole story. But i could have written lots more.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarifications. First off, I think it is important for everyone reading this thread to note that the OP says this brain training he underwent is not typical nuerofeedback. It sounds like something newer and more advanced. That being said I am interested in trying this since it helped you so much and you said Dr. Cripe has helped others identify brain issues causing their DP/DR. One thing that comes to mind is how there are many causes and variations in the experience of DP/DR and our DP/DR sounds very different. For instance my primary symptom is feelings of severe disembodiment. My face and limbs feel so numb constantly that I am disabled by it. Did you experience any symptoms like this? I believe my DP was caused by childhood trauma (narcissistic parents) causing me to have a weak psyche (no sense of my true self), combined with pot and panic and stress. I was also drinking occasionally in high amounts in the months before I went into DP/DR. My point is our causes and symptoms are probably different so I hope Dr. Cripe could still help me too, but I guess there is no way of knowing unless I give it a shot.

Questions about the brain training:

1. How long did it take for Dr. Cripe to do all your brain mapping?

2. Are micro seizures not felt or experienced like regular seizures? Like you don't know when you are having them?

3. Do you have any more info on what he identified in others with DP/DR he treated?

4. Can you give an example of what a brain training exercise is like to do?

5. Where did you go to get tested for heavy metals? In the U.S. as well?

6. Do you recall what area of your brain was having these micro seizures? The right angular gyrus or right tempero-parietal regions perhaps?

7. How many days did you spend in Arizona with Dr Cripe until you were ready to leave?

8. You continued your brain training by having Skype sessions with Dr. Cripe correct? How many times?

Thanks for all the info


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Good morning DPD fighter and A S M,

thank yo for the information.

I ll get back to you with thos questions dpd fighter asap as i will also talk with Dr Cripe.

Would you mind if I share this information of this thread with my neuropsychologist and also Dr Lievaart who has a PhD in psychology and also Dr Cripe?

The first 2 work for our enterprise here in Belgium. We are like the European arm of Dr Cripe.

So we as an enterprise can also start a database regarding dp/dr. Because i would really like us to look more into dp/dr going forward.

For every issue like f e depression, lymedisease, anxiety ... we keep a database to keep track and learn more about the issue to hopefully become more effective.

But for this information mainly because there is so little information and understanding out off the medical field so this wll help them to understand more about dp/dr.

So off course i first ask your permission if that would be ok. If not i fully understand and respect that.


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

[quote name="timzie" post="560081" timestamp="1520236762"]Good morning DPD fighter and A S M,

thank yo for the information.

I ll get back to you with thos questions dpd fighter asap as i will also talk with Dr Cripe.

Would you mind if I share this information of this thread with my neuropsychologist and also Dr Lievaart who has a PhD in psychology and also Dr Cripe?

Yes that's fine by me. I think we all understand that whatever we post on here can be viewed by anyone and everyone.


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi ASM,

Thank you for that!

Hi DP fighter,

I was just briefly on skype with Dr Cripe.

1. The Neurocodex wich is the Brainmap takes now like 2 hours coming and out of the office. So having the cap on like 90 minutes.

2. Yes exactly like you say. I did not feel it like a seizure but the activity was there causing problems.

3, Most of the times there is other stuff going on. And most of the times an imbalance between the two hemispeheres. Also a lot because of drugs and alcohol causing the brain to be weakened and creating these imbalances or braincircuits not functioning properly.

4, Braintraining session can be done in the office or at home. I bought the material and brought it to belgium and trained at my home and went 3 times a week on skype with Dr Cripe for an hour. Now it is the braincoaches that guide the client through the training. The braincoach verifies that the sensors are put on the correct place on the skull and then guides you through the training. The training consists of different tasks like dimmer games and other tasks which is through Brain Computer Interface the computer registers the activity through the sensors and then the game adapts accordingly. It s proactive and also some of the tasks is really like weightlifting for you brain. Digits, arrows, games, split attention. The tasks aim to stregthen the weaker parts and bring balance to overactive areas. The normal frequency of your brain is around 10 Hertz. So if the frequency of the client is too high or too low, meaning too much activity or too little activity, then the personalised braintraining aims at strengthening or rebalancing. After 2 monts another brainmap is done to evaluate the progress and adapt the setup protocol. So that the best possible result is created by measuring.

5, Yes in the US but that was back in 2013. We work together with 2 docters here who do the testing as well and depending where you live there are probably some docs around who do this too. There is also a lot of good information about that also online and i d be happy to share my experience, but I m not not a docter so it would be just my experience and not my advice. You should do your own research. But again happy to share my experience.

6, The Brocas area.

7. I was there for 2 weeks and then left with the equipment. But again that was december 2012. It all depends where you live.

8. Already partially explained above. I had to continue for a longer time because i had a lot going on. But we always did remaps to see what the evolution was so we could adapt the setup accordingly but once my suicidal pieces were gone after a month and i knewx that this was something that was really doing something i was willing to go all the way. But also before I was willing to try anything.

The good thing about this program is that without having done the first brainmap/ Neurocodex there is no way telling what will have to be done.

I tell clients here who come to the office for an information visit that even without doing the training or thinking about the training the first step is identifying the problem before you can talk about the solution.

We always invite people who have interest for the program to come by for a free informational visit so they can have a clear understanding of what it is we do. And then can make a good decision with the information they need and want. Transparancy is important for us.

Where do you live DP Fighter?

Feel free to ask more questions or we can also have a skypetalk if you d like more information.


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## Ellitheo (Mar 5, 2018)

Hello from Greece. As I suffer from Dp for 7 years I am really interested in this method but I don't think it can be done anywhere in Greece. For what I understand it might show that it is not psychological only that every psychiatrist I saw suggests but brainfuctioning. Could someone help me with this? Where should I check? Grateful for you help.


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi Ellitheo,

We are the first to offer this in Europe so people don not have to fly anymore to the USA. Which saves money.

But for now it would imply that you would have to fly over to Belgium to get your first brainmap (Neurocodex) to identify any problems. If Dr Cripe would not see anything then it might be psychological. But like he told me yesterday there is most of the time more going on. And that is for Dr Cripe to evaluate after taking the brainmap/Neurocodex.

The first brainmap identifies whether something physical is involved. This could be not proper brainfunctioning because of too high or too low brain activity. Your frequency should be normally around 10 Hertz. When there is too much activity or too little this can cause problems. Or an imbalance between the 2 brainhemispheres.

But there is no telling what could be going on before the first assessment is done. So we already have somebody in the program now who lives in the South of France.

This person flew over for the Neurocodex (brainmap) a week later she had her Report of Findings with Dr Cripe(skype) and our neuropsychologist (present in the office to help translate if needed and taking notes.). This person is now in the program because something can be done with the braintraining and took the material home to do the braintraining 3 times a week over skype with the sensors.

Hopefully if what we do catches on and becomes more established then hopefully it will become more available alos in Greece and other parts of Europe.

But for now it would mean you would have to come over to Belgium for a brief period and then continue the braintraining itself in Greece.

Feel free to contact me for more details.

Efgharisto

kind regards


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

timzie said:


> By the way dpd fighter what is this IDS? study of dpd?
> 
> I m hoping in the future to do a study with dp/dr people to see what the brainmaps look like. But that s not for now but that is really a goal going forward so if you have more information on that please share! thank you


IDS stands for Intiative for Depersonalization Studies which is a Facebook group led by Jeffrey Abugel the author of the DPD books Feeling Unreal and Stranger To Myself. He's one of the most important people in the world of understanding DPD along with people like Mauricio Sierra, Daphne Simeon, and Anthony David. Currently he is doing a fundraiser to raise money for what he calls "groundbreaking conferences" in the U.S. and the U.K. for depersonalization. It seems he is trying to get leading researchers together to do more studies on DPD. Perhaps this brain mapping study you hope to do could somehow be involved with IDS. He may be interested in the neurocodex program. If you would like to contact him you can find him on the IDS Facebook or PM me and I can give you his email.

Here are some threads about IDS:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/77570-jeff-abugel-initiative-for-depersonalization-research/

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/81282-depersonalization-studies-funding-time-to-contribute-to-this-one/

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/82818-spreading-awareness-for-the-initiative-for-depersonalization-studies/


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

This is really great news!

Also inspiring to see Jeffrey Abugel putting his shoulders under this.

I read his book also and Sierra s one and I think CBT for DP etc... as well because I wanted to get out of this dark place of dp/dr.

I also want to contribute with this in any way we can so i ll message you DP fighter.

I m not on facebook but maybe I ll hook up just for this then.

Thank you also for promoting this and also so willing to find solutions for dp/dr.

Something must come out of this!


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

timzie said:


> Hi ASM,
> 
> Thank you for that!
> 
> ...


I live in northern California so it's about a 2 hour flight to Phoenix. I'm highly interested in trying this program and the next thing for me to find out is the cost. I have money saved but I need to get a clear idea of how much we are talking. I would hope my insurance would cover it but it may not... There is the expense of a flight, hotel, renting a car maybe, all the initial appointments, buying the sensors to do skype sessions, then the skype sessions several times a week, then flying back for a follow up. This is sounding very expensive. How much did you spend on all this?


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi DP fighter,

Great you live in California which means you are close to Dr Cripe himself. They also work together with some centers in California who offer his program.

Which centers exactly they are you would have to ask LJ Cripe who is the Drector of Business Operations. Here below you have her details. I ve spoken to Dr Cripe today and also mentioned our communication. So if you do get in touch with them, refer to our conversation here on the forum so he knows who you are.

They also have a center in Newport Beach and one in San Diego.

If you have the means and time to go to Arizona and have Dr Cripe take your initial brainmap, go for it.

Then you can meet with him personally and experience his expertise and personality and share your experience here.

Regarding prices and how much money I have spent getting well is actually a dual question because I have spent a lot of money, time and energy before i got to know of the existence of Dr Cripe.I also had these metabollic issues which had to be adressed...

I flew from Belgium and stayed for two weeks the first time.

So for you this is not the case so your visit will be more interesting budget wise. That sht ewhole idea now to have this available also in Europe so that Europeans do not have to make that long and expensive trip anymore...

Prices for the services in the US are

2.000usd for initial Brainmap/Neurocodex (in Belgium 1500 euro)

1.500 usd for Monthly block of 12 Neurocoach sessions (in Belgium/Europe 1200 euros)

Prcies for equipment you should ask their business office.

There is no way saying how many sessions you need or even if you can go into the program before your Brain is mapped and measured to really have a clue ofn what is going on. People who ask me and are doubting whether they should do it I suggest to first just do the Brainmap and see wht the result says without thinking further. If your arm hurts like hell and it could be all kinds of injuries with different kinds of healingprocesses regarding time etc it s first important to know what the problem is by doing a scan or other methods to identify the problem.

The choice is yours off course.

Best you get in touch with their Business Office to get more answers to more specific questions regarding time before you get an appointment etc.

LJ Haney, MBA

Director Business Operations
NTLgroup, Inc.
480-980-2087
[email protected]
[email protected]

But feel free to ask me more questions when you have more questions or want to have more information.
Transparancy is key and I can understand it s kind of a big step and you d like to be as prepared as good as you can to make the right decision.
Keep me posted.

kind regards


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## DPFighter (Apr 8, 2013)

timzie said:


> Hi DP fighter,
> 
> Great you live in California which means you are close to Dr Cripe himself. They also work together with some centers in California who offer his program.
> 
> ...


Do you happen to know if people doing Dr. Cripe's program are ever covered by health insurance in any case or are no insurances accepted? The website doesn't have info on this. I will call and find out but if you happen to know please tell so others reading this thread can see. In the two weeks you were there did you have sessions everyday? Also If the initial neurocodex evaluation is 2.000 USD is flying back for a follow up an additional 2.000?


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi DP fighter,

*Do you happen to know if people doing Dr. Cripe's program are ever covered by health insurance in any case or are no insurances accepted? The website doesn't have info on this. I will call and find out but if you happen to know please tell so others reading this thread can see.*

Regarding the insurance you should ask LJ Cripe, I m not sure. So I do not want to give false information. In Europe for now no inusrance reimburses but we aim for that going forward. That s why we do the pilot study and more in the future.

*In the two weeks you were there did you have sessions everyday?*

I went over to Arizona more then 5 years ago and if I remember well I did 3 sessions a week.

*Also If the initial neurocodex evaluation is 2.000 USD is flying back for a follow up an additional 2.000?*

For the remap I believe the price for now is the same because the evaluation is the same.

But these are questions you should ask LJ Cripe from the business office because it is outside my "jursidiction" if you know what I mean.

I m responsible for the European intro and I do not want to give the wrong information. In Europe the price is the same because it is the same evaluation. It is also been looked at by a neurologist.

If you are anyone else has more questions or wants more information, do not hesitate to ask.

Again we are on a mission to get this out there and in time available for all those willing to go the distance not just for the people who can afford it.

Prices are what they are now, but we have a long term vision doing studies proving this program works so insurance companies get involved so more work to be done and this will take some time but we have to start somewhere.


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi everyone,

This youtubevidoe by Sentis explains very well how brainplasticity works and how your brain can heal and change and make new connections.


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

Interesting..

i'd be interested to hear accounts of this with regards to treating DP, is there any studies?

maybe someone could find something, i'm a bit busy atm.

Cost wise from the UK,

So (flights to Belgium) 1,200 euro first session + 1,500 for 12 sessions which can be on Skype right?

Then it's how much roughly is this equipment, right now we don't even have a ball park and by the sounds of it 12 sessions and 1 meeting is just the start..

1 month 3k (euros) + equipment :-o

2 months 6k (euros) + equipment :sad:

3 months 9k (euros) + equipment 

Sorry I just skimmed this, so do you do sessions in-between Skype sessions?


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Hi CK1,

First brainmap is 1500 euros (excl.VAT)

If then braintraining is advised then it is 1200 euro (excl.VAT) for 12 sessions, so 1 month.

After 2 months or 24 sessions there is a remap to see evaluate the brain and hopefully it s progress. If needed the training protocol is changed then.

How many months you have to train is difficult to say without having done ther first brainmap. On average 75 percent are done between 4 to 6 months.

If you would come from the UK and would buy the equipment that would be an extra cost of around 2500 euros.

One part of that if returned in good state you get 625 euros back. And one part of it is a laptop which if the right kind you can buy yourself but is the same result.

I know that these are expensive prices and that this is not for everyone for the moment.

Again that is why we are doing the pilot study now for Burn-Out and hoping to more in the future.

I sincerely hope and we aim for one day also regarding dp/dr.

Hopefully with Jeffrey Abugel. I will get in touch with him on a later moment already got on his facebook page and dp fighter will help with that contact.

What do you mean with sessions in between skype sessions? Do you mean like extra sessions yourself?

The braintraining sessions are over skype with neuropsychologist/psychologist guiding the cliënt.

Normally 3 times a week for a 45 min so calculate an hour hooking on and off.

Hope this helps


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

Timzie thanks for getting back to me, really appreciated.

Okay some 'quick maths'.

(E = Euros) E1500 + Vat = E1,800 Brainmap + 5 month 'average' - E6000 + Vat = E7,020

+ Another Brainmap at E1,800 (i'm guessing by 5 months there is another brain map, unless by that stage you don't need the program anyway)

+ Equipment E2,500 Minus 625 return lets say. £1,875

So basically: (+Travel x2 or 3)

£9,000 over 5 months with 2 Brainmaps

£11,000 with 3.

Okay, so sessions are only done with guidance.

Well... if you ever need a test patient, count me in. Also results in a study would be most interesting, no one has found a constant winner in DP to date, so one of stories don't really count for much, i've read a guy cure DP smoking incense sticks, but i do applaud the work you doing to share this information!

I honestly like to think I will be DP free before I have that money in the bank.


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## timzie (Sep 28, 2012)

Thank you CK1.

Yes that will exactly the interesting part when we do a study, that there are so many different cases backgrounds set on s etc for dp/dr...

If there s any evolutions i ll keep you posted here.


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