# [Trigger Warning]Study shows cannabis use DOES NOT cause schizophrenia



## MiketheAlien (Nov 7, 2013)

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https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/23czab

http://www.schres-journal.com/article/S0920-9964(13)00610-5/abstract

Just thought I would post this since there seems to be a lot of unneeded worry about turning schizophrenic after using weed.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Studies don't prove anything. Only stories from first hand experience can prove something. Weed is a dissociative/mild hallucinogenic drug who knows wat this shit does to the brain.

I personally know of 2 people who got schizophrenia from chronic weed use


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

missjess said:


> Studies don't prove anything. Only stories from first hand experience can prove something. Weed is a dissociative/mild hallucinogenic drug who knows wat this shit does to the brain.
> 
> I personally know of 2 people who got schizophrenia from chronic weed use


How do they know it was the weed that caused it?

And the point of studies is to do things in as unbiased and scientifically accurate way as possible, which is always better than word of mouth, for the most part.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Cihan said:


> You can't get schizophrenia from smoking marijuana, it can only trigger it.
> You would have to already have the predisposition to schizophrenia...


How do u know they predispositioned ? It's a mind altering substance, how do u know it wasent in fact the sole cause ? It cud have altered a pathway in the brain


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

How can science figure that out haha ...they can't!!


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

I so wish I could find a video of a mentally health journalist who did an experiment in England where she was given IV cannabis. Actually cannabis has two components -- one that makes you happy, another that makes you afraid and cause psychosis even in a mental healthy individual -- but this woman was screened beforehand and had no lasting effect.

The point of the pot debate is IN THOSE WITH A PREDISPOSITION TO DEVELOPING A NUMBER OF MENTAL DISORDERS, a recreational drug could be a TRIGGER. The drug itself does NOT CAUSE the illness, but can BRING OUT a pre-existing condition.

There are many studies. No matter how you look at it, pot (to the best of my understanding is not a hallucinogen but a dissociative drug). It is also a stressor on the brain so to speak. Those who have NO PREDISPOSITION to having a problem with it won't. And MANY DON'T.

But again, we are getting confused with schizophrenia and DP/DR. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

If you go to PubMed -- medical journal articles you will see drug-induced behavior that can either mimic mental illness (then pass) or cause a predisposition to "come out."

I don't understand how individuals here do not distinguish between taking ANY drug and a change in the brain. The feelings and behaviors FROM the drug make you feel different. You aren't "imagining" you are feeling different. Why else take the drug? Alcohol makes you feel different. Cigarettes can both calm and energize. And MANY medications (for all sorts of illnesses -- not just psychiatric -- can cause thinking and behavioral changes in healthy people). If this happens you discontinue the medication.

Many drugs for psychiatric disorders were discovered by accident. For instance back in the late 1940s, a drug for tuberculosis I believe (don't quote me) ... well individuals that started taking it would remark "I feel less sad, more optimistic, more content." This led to the early development of some antidepressants.

This happens ALL the time in medicine.

And there is a difference between CAUSE and TRIGGER. If I can find that video, you would be very interested to see the reporter receive the "good" part of cannabis, and the "bad" part of it. BUT she did not REMAIN in either state after she "came down." She had no predisposition to develop a problem.

Damn, I wish I could find that. I will look for it.

And I also don't understand why anyone who has had a very negative experience on ANY drug would continue to take the drug.

BUT, I also don't understand why people lecture others on how to treat their own bodies. If one knows the risks and benefits of any medication-- and that includes HEART medication or ... contraception, etc. you then make an informed choice. I have many friends who won't even take cholesterol lowering medication they need.

If you are hurting no one else, you need to know what you are taking into your body and brain, and make a decision.

Pot also concerns me as it is inhaled and unlike a cigarette doesn't even have a filter. It is a FACT that is not good for your lungs. But people choose to smoke cigarettes and pot. All I'm concerned about is individuals who take any medication not kill me with their car.

WE DON'T HAVE SCHIZOPHRENIA.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

missjess said:


> How do u know they predispositioned ? It's a mind altering substance, how do u know it wasent in fact the sole cause ? It cud have altered a pathway in the brain


There are indicators about the dangers of being predisposed to something, but not everyone has the same indicators. On the horizon are blood tests that will predict these predispositions or RISK factors, just as there are risk factors and genetic tests for risk of early onset breast cancer, or schziophrenia or alcoholism, etc.

FAMILY HISTORY is one VERY important predictor. If a close biological family member -- parent, sibling has a disorder -- this increases your ODDS of having a problem yourself. One healthy twin has about a 50/50 chance of getting schizoprhenia if his/her twin develops schizophrenia. These means genetics is CLEARLY involved, but not a guarantee of developing the disease.

Environment AND predisposition are involved.

If your father had a heart attack at 45, you should be on the lookout for a heart attack early on. You may never have one. But the statistics are FAR higher. You don't put yourself at further risk if you have this family history, etc., etc., etc.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Found it! Watch this. A journalist takes a legitimate test performed on many others -- pure THC injected vs. ... the other

The reporter calls this "skunk" which I guess is Brit slang for pot.

These studies are being conducted at the Institute of Psychiatry in London. This is where Mauricio Sierra has been studying DP/DR for DECADES. This is not a random biased article from the internet. It is an ongoing clinical trial with volunteers.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)




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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Cannabinoid can offset the effects of THC.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

SolomonOrlando said:


> We use Psychology.. which is a science..
> 
> This is legitimately the equivalent of me tripping down the stairs, breaking my hip, finding someone else that had the same accident, then blaming stairs for _every _broken bone anyone gets.


More important than psychology, we use NEUROLOGY. This is where research is key, where science is held to a high measurable standard.

In the test on the reporter, the researcher gives the reporter a CONTROLLED amount, intravenously of the PURE cannabinoid, and the THC. He does not tell her which day she receives which injection. Afterwards she is given a questionnaire identical to that of others in the study. They do this with hundreds of people.

Also, each individual is screened for predisposition.

I myself have participated in a few studies at the depression center at U. of M. I was a control. I was given NOTHING in both cases. I had extensive interviews. I had extensive paperwork to fill out. It was an eight week study. I was called for followups. The study is ongoing.
Those who are not clinicians -- that is those who do not TREAT patients go into research. So psychiatrists themselves may contribute observations, or help with studies, etc. as they encounter patients daily. This is NOT the same as conducting and experiment such as using a drug on a rat or a human being, etc.

Scientific research into all MEDICAL disorders has common protocol.

Also, I have said a million times -- the Harvard Brain Bank -- McLean Hospital I believe -- requests donations of post-mortem brains of those with brain disorders and those of HEALTHY individuals. I have donated my brain. Brain tissue samples are prepared and frozen and even shared worldwide.

Differences in brains can be OBSERVED under a microscope. You can't take a slice out of a person's brain when they are alive. And other tests with the brain are often conducted during mandatory life-saving surgery when a patient is awake. Individuals can describe what is going on if certain areas of the brain are stimulated. This is in part how we know where certain brain centers are -- speech and vision, etc.

You can also induce all sorts of perceptual experiences with probes used in attempting to limit seizures for example. Everyone's brain is different, so a probe can cause a feeling of being out -of-body, cause someone to hallucinate, cause someone to hear bells ringing, etc.

I coud go on and on as I am fascinated by the brain as a whole.

If you read the current series of Scientific American, you can find article after article of brain research. The internet is a very dangerous place to get information ON ANY TOPIC. Even reading a newspaper online is not reliable.

If I learned nothing else in university, I learned the difference between a "primary source" and then a secondary or tertiary source.
And when I was a college student I was horribly ignorant about things. Even about interpretation of literature.

Learning to think and learn leads to greater understanding.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

SolomonOrlando said:


> We use Psychology.. which is a science..
> 
> This is legitimately the equivalent of me tripping down the stairs, breaking my hip, finding someone else that had the same accident, then blaming stairs for every broken bone anyone gets.


Yes but why can't u see drugs as being the cause for the disorder , yes they triggered it but just think if that person had never taken the drugs they most likely wud still be ok....


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

P.s I'm not a science hard evidence based type person so it will be impossible to convince me otherwise 

But if I was to put something "sciency" in the equation....don't u think that chemicals have the power to change brain pathways? Pot is a chemical and it changes pathways in the brain, there is proof that they can permanently alter brain pathways. Are u going to say drug induced psychosis was only "triggered" by drugs? No it was the cause of that.

Drugs r chemicals...look at how anti depressants work, they alter brain chemistry and cause ppl to feel differently...I know someone who has permanent brain damage from using anti depressants at age 15, how now has permanent anhedonia despite being off the meds for years.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

missjess said:


> Yes but why can't u see drugs as being the cause for the disorder , yes they triggered it but just think if that person had never taken the drugs they most likely wud still be ok....


This woman was MADE to feel psychotic with an injection. At the time the pure THC was in her system she exhibited a very high score for being psychotic. When she "came down" these symptoms did NOT stay with her. Individuals screened for mental health BEFORE the tests (all of them) do not go on to develop an illness.

And we don't know -- as with people here on the board -- we CAN'T know -- if someone would or would not have developed DP/DR without taking pot or another drug, etc. I for example NEVER have taken a rec drug in my life (save small amounts of alcohol) -- I have never smoked a cigarette, NO POT, etc., etc. and I HAVE DP/DR. And I am also not psychotic.

These would indicate we cannot make a direct correlation between the two.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

missjess said:


> P.s I'm not a science hard evidence based type person so it will be impossible to convince me otherwise
> 
> But if I was to put something "sciency" in the equation....don't u think that chemicals have the power to change brain pathways? Pot is a chemical and it changes pathways in the brain, there is proof that they can permanently alter brain pathways. Are u going to say drug induced psychosis was only "triggered" by drugs? No it was the cause of that.
> 
> Drugs r chemicals...look at how anti depressants work, they alter brain chemistry and cause ppl to feel differently...I know someone who has permanent brain damage from using anti depressants at age 15, how now has permanent anhedonia despite being off the meds for years.


Sorry you do not believe in science. And therein we can never come to agreement. But if you don't, then how are you communicating with me over a computer on an internet? How are you staying on the earth? -- it has gravity. How is it you have never developed polio -- you took a vaccine as a child that wasn't available to many in the early 1900s. How does an airplane fly? How does your cellphone work over a satellite connection? How can a blood test now screen for AIDS when it was killing people in the 1970s and 1980s -- the blood supply was contaminated. It isn't any more thanks to scientific research. That's all just science.

Never mind that.

You didn't read what I wrote. Yes, drugs can change brian chemistry ... I said that. You feel different because something has been altered in your brain. If you have surgery and are given a general anesthetic you are knocked out -- it DOES SOMETHING TO YOUR BRAIN. But even anesthesia isn't permanent.

Also, individuals can have different long-term effects from medications -- all medications. It depends on the person.

I will say, someone told me the other day that his relative took rec drugs for some years ... CHRONIC drug use -- as with an addict could damage your brain. It only stands to reason. And say with smoking. SO many who take heroin -- one hit and they are seriously addicted, they are forever changed. They spend their entire lives either resisting the temptation to take it again, or end up dying from the stuff. Very sad.

YES, drugs can alter your brain, but the long term effects vary from person to person. I know SO many people who smoke pot recreationally. They never had mental health problems. They had a joint now and then in high school, and have a joint now and then at a party at the age of 50. They don't smoke it constantly, they don't WANT to. And so many of these friends of mine have absolutely NO CLUE what DP and DR are, not to mention any other mental illness.


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## Ameloulou (Jun 27, 2010)

missjess said:


> Studies don't prove anything. Only stories from first hand experience can prove something. Weed is a dissociative/mild hallucinogenic drug who knows wat this shit does to the brain.
> 
> I personally know of 2 people who got schizophrenia from chronic weed use


Wow... You really are something else.


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## MiketheAlien (Nov 7, 2013)

Reconsidered joke.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Ameloulou said:


> Wow... You really are something else.


Yep I am ME take it or leave it


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Irina Paravienna said:


> Missjess strikes again.


Yes MISSJESS strikes again by stating her opinion u got a problem with that !?


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