# I think we finally have a cure!!! No not the linden method



## sci_fli (Aug 16, 2006)

I'll cut straight to the point.

DPD or depersonalisation disorder is sometimes caused by obsessive thoughts. The obsessive side of OCD. Stop the Obesessive thoughts stop the feeling of detachment.

Dr Evan Torch, Atlanta suggests using a combination of Luvox (faverin), clomipramine (anafranil) and provigil. "Torch calls this combination of an SSRI and a stimulant "the hidden pearl that can really help DPD""...

I quote

"As a general rule I use a psychostimulant (provigil) as a brief intervention to "lift" the 
patient out of the depersonalization and then follow with Anafranil and Luvox 
titrating up to 50--75 mg. over several weeks."

he also says: 
"It is imperative to remember that I do not know either your history or your 
physical condition---all of this must run through your physician! 
Provigil is a weak psychstimulant though it has not been authorized for many uses "off label" in the US. Again, all of this assumes one do not have any bipolar or schizophriform issues 
and and has a normal cardiovascular and neurological status. There are also 
anticholinergic side effects, which though mild, need to be explained to a 
patient and monitored."

Now back to me 
Personally I have been researching DPD for about 2.5 years. and I read an amazing book that was published April 2006.

"FEELING UNREAL, Depersonalization disorder and the loss of the self" written in April 2006 available here in the USA: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/019517 ... 52?ie=UTF8

Buy it if your suffering or just interested. You can also get it in the UK

If you would like the contact details of Dr Evan M Torch get in touch!!!


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## Angela2006 (Jan 20, 2006)

Sorry, but I tried Provigil last month. I took it for two weeks and I thought I was going to die. I got so down and depressed, and I'm not usually down or depressed. It was a terrible feeling, so I stopped taking it the next day, and by the day after that I was back to my old depersonalised self, but at least without depression. Be careful with Provigil! Angela


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

Provigil gave me crazy panic attacks and headaches. Kept me awake... but didn't cure my DP... or "lift" me out of it.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2006)

I got rid of all my obssessions OCD naturally .... I.E. SCHIZO,AIDS, PLANE CRASHING, KNOCKING ON WOOD RITUALS TAPPING MY BACK 3 TIMES OVER A MANHOLE. Counting down to a special code. All gone and I still have dp/dr so thats bullshit. Plus a pill like "provagil" isn't going to do shit.


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## Pablo (Sep 1, 2005)

No drug can cure an emotional problem


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

B.S.!! You never hear me talk on this board seeking a chemical cure for DP because I know for a fact that my DP always manifests itself during times of stress or some personal loss. As far as I'm concerned, benzos can help make the symptoms more bearable, but don't expect a pill to cure your misery, unless your DP is caused by some form of enchephilits or epilepsy.


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## sci_fli (Aug 16, 2006)

Hey dreamland,

If you have cicumstancial Depersonalisation then it's not classed as DPD depersonalisation disorder. It's just depersonalisation. It has to be chronic and continual to be DPD. and this cure is for DPD.


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

I have it 24/7 but in varying degrees; I ignore it most of the time to the point where I feel normal and it only bothers me once a month or so.


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## sci_fli (Aug 16, 2006)

How did you manage to control it cause mine is very chronic 24/7. Do you find that you are disconnected from your emotions this inturn leads to you not being able to access self-confidence? or assertivness? it just doesn't flow naturally if you get my drift. Cause I lost my identity two years ago and it's never come back since. Like I didn't know what I liked or disliked, was good for me bad etc. I just didn't have a feel for it anymore :-(

Get back to me


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## Ni Hi Li St. (Jul 1, 2006)

For those who have taken provigil with unsuccessful results, do you have DPD or DP? I'm wondering since sci_fli made an important distinction here and some people may not know the difference between the two (I, for one, didn't know).


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## jft (Jan 10, 2005)

I am interested if you are a patient of Even Torch. I talked to him by phone twenty years ago and he then suggested Cloimiprine and held tight to the obsessive connection with dp. Has he written any more than his 1980's journal entries? Cloimiprimine is nasty, at least for me and for many others. Cannot understand how adding luvox (to the clo) which can be nasty itself could even make a person function. I have alot of respect for Dr. Torch, I am curious about your connection to him.
jft


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## sci_fli (Aug 16, 2006)

Twenty years hey?? that's along time... anyway Hey... yeah well I got put in touch with him cause of the supposed 'pearl' treatment. I am in the process of deciding whether I wanna folk out the money to go over there and get treatment. (I'm from the UK) as my health service is so slow. and I think they are on the wrong track with my treatment. I then need to find a doctor that is willing to take on Torch's treatment in the UK. any suggestions???

P.S I heard he is in the middle of writing a book on DPD


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## Dreamland (Jun 1, 2005)

sci_fli said:


> How did you manage to control it cause mine is very chronic 24/7. Do you find that you are disconnected from your emotions this inturn leads to you not being able to access self-confidence? or assertivness? it just doesn't flow naturally if you get my drift. Cause I lost my identity two years ago and it's never come back since. Like I didn't know what I liked or disliked, was good for me bad etc. I just didn't have a feel for it anymore :-(
> 
> Get back to me


I control it because I know that disassociation is a normal element of our conscience or cognitive experience; in other words, we all need a little DP or else our daily experiences become too intense. The problem with DP is that it has gone out of control and it only gets worse when you think about it, similar to having an ugly birthmark on your face-if you don't learn to live with it you're pretty much a lost case. The more you focus on how you can't "feel" or how you've lost yourself, the worse your DP will get because your brain is only defending itself against the horrible idea of having no emotions or self. Your emotions and feelings are alive and well but the problem is your inability to sync with yourself....a DP voice in your head has hijacked your thinking. You're in back-up mode, but you'll survive.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

Do yourselves a favour and print this page off, copy it, whatever and stick it on your wall, in your diary, in your car, as a screensaver, whatever.

Be patient

Believe in yourself

Improvement is your yardstick and nothing else, noone else

Compete with yourself and dont envy others

Dont think black and white or in unfair absolutes

Dont be a perfectionist, otherwise you are certain to be constantly dissapointed

Learn to accept the smaller things in life and to enjoy them rather than chase the modern day dragon of materialism that we all have been duped into doing

Trust others

Be active, in work, a hobbie, team sports etc

Get a girlfriend/boyfriend

Remind yourself to be thankful no matter haw bad you feel for what you have, this is a gr8 exercise in getting out of negative thinking

Have 2 diaries. one for rambling and spontaneous writing, another organized for your thoughts and tasks, and achievements

Do something every day that frightens you. Fear of fear is unacceptable. Its part of the human condition to feel afraid.

Be emotional and spontaneous.Laugh, dance, sing, cry. Express yourself rather than sit quietly. dont be a doormat ior harbour grudges. If you dont like someone or they have pissed you off, tell them on the spot rather than complain behind their backs. this will develop your self esteem.

paint, write, create, learn an insturnment

Get involved with the local community. Charity or enviornment. a nobel cause

Exercise

Eat well

Meditate or do tai chi/yoga

Try not to take the easy way out all the time

Dont give yourself a hard time on a go slow day or a bad relapse. These will happen and to fight against them or not accept them will drive you further down

If on meds, accept tht they are only a crutch, and will not find meaning in life, or choose a career path for you. they will only calm you down slightly and then its up to you to start moving!!! Addiction and drug tollerance seem to go hand in hand judging by the numerous posts on this site so be careful, otherwise you may have to fight a war on 2 fronts!!

Have a sence of humour, no matter what

Dont take things so seriously, although draw the line. freedom and irresponsibile wreckless behaviour are hard to differentiate from when in the middle of a crisis, ie we could all be dead tomorrow so lets get very pissed, do drugs, back horses, sleep with married women etc etc.

Dont spend all day alone, this would drive anyone mad

Dont be unemployed. This is very hard on the self esteem

Dont take criticism to heart. Most people who laugh at other people or look down on others either have on lives of their own or are a waste of space

Be spiritual, but dont be a religious zealot or fanatic. Religious fanaticism is the last place a person runs to when they run out of obsessions or addictions, and is a very harmful addiction itself. Magic thinking, black and white thinking, intollerance of other faiths etc etc. Boaring for an outsider. Distressing for other family members.

list 5 things to do every day rather than 100. Easier to achieve and leaves you much less desperate and frantic in your persuit of goals. Attainable goals too please!!

Dont do drugs at all.

Dont binge drink or self medicate in any way. read posts about this. loads of people write about their awful experiences with binge drinking. Alcohol in my view is the most dangerous drug of them all when abused. The only good thing about binge drinking and its effects on dp./dr is that it is a reminder that this condition is anxiety born, not a mystical, transcendent journey which is out of our control

Learn not to be pessimistic or hyper critical of yourself or others. This is the highway to staying in a rut, shaking the ladder on others as they strive to get on with life.

Accept there is no magic bullet on your journey to recovey. Over time you will learn to differentiate between normal angst that everyone feels and the delusional angst that snowballs by our own invention and folly. We are experts at being our very own judge, jury and executioner, or better again, our very own prisoner and warden all rolled into one person. learn to accept the knocks of life and get on with things, rather than mull in the addictive and easier way of being pessimistic, doing nothing.

Finally, as my train of thought continues to flare and fire with an ever extending list, I conclude that attitude is the cornerstone to recovery. Acceptence of yourself, belief in free will, willingness to change, willingness to accept responsibility rather than blame or fault external factors for my plight/ situation. I have a melancholic temperament, and will be prone to deep rumination if I allow myself to do this. I must keep active and dynamic in my will rather than pasive and submissive in my attitude. this is a very hard habit to break, but it is possible. It is impossible to be the person next door or anyone else for that matter so envy is utterly useless.

Not meds or hypnosis, not neurology, not pseudoscience or quackery, not quick fixes or short term promises based on placebos and involving credit card details. not miracle diets or carefully measured suppliaments (although some do halp a little), not new age treatments.

All these things point in my mind to the concept of being spoon fed, to shrink away from personal responsibility and atonomy and leave it to someone else or something else to do it for you. Also, measuring out diets and charting what you eat is another obsessive form of behaving, better to just stick to the food pyramid and feel generally well rather than be specifically regulating diet to the minutest of detail. This is trying to get well again without being willing to change, or trying too hard to change.

Its like blaming the devil for doing evil things while free will and responsibility rests 100% squarely on our shoulders in the first place, not with some metaphorical serpent. 'I didnt say it, it was the puppet', is the best anology I can think of for this attitude.

Well thats the end of my ramble. I'm sure you have deduced it is very non scientific and rests with the concept of making the most of your resources and moulding a new attitude based on dynamic will rather than passive acceptence. There will be times when you will feel so angsted that it will be better to be passive and not active. The concept works on a shifting scale and not in a concrete mould. Everyone must develop their own thresholds and learn to differentiate between constructive action and desperate action. Im sure I will have stirred much anger with long term suffers who for whatever reason, have failed to get better, or people who have had this thing for a short while and cannot accept or anticipate any way out. I say to the short termers, trust me, and accept that progress will be gradual. I say to the long termers, that attitude and concepts on this list are bound to improve your lot, and surely improvement is better than nothing. I had this disorder for 10 years. I have learned to live and accept anxiety until it finally sublimated back to the way is should have been. anticipatory angst stalled my recovery, and because I didnt know what was wrong, I fought inward rather than look outward.

If anyone is suspicious of me,or doubts me, which is the first reflex of most people in the midst of this disorder consider that;

I'm not selling anything
I've nothing to be gained by doing this other than trying to help people understand this disorder and the way I improved radically. Its important to give back when you have been so low.


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## jeremy (Apr 28, 2006)

Amazing advice widescreened. I love the bit on taking responsibility for yourself and your health. I agree that you can't expect to get better by someone forcing drugs down your throat, or having someone stick needles in your body, or someone making suggestions while under a hypnotic trance. Like widescreened says, that is giving away your personal responsibility and power.

But that is not to say that having acupuncture or hypnosis or new age treatments or quack treatments or therapy is wrong or wont help. I think you need to do these things but too but concentrate on what you have detaile d above. Definetely one of the best posts I've read on here.


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## Ni Hi Li St. (Jul 1, 2006)

wow

it's funny that most of those very thoughts went through my mind for the first time as i was sleeping last night. something in my head was telling me to finally face the facts and face the fears. stand up to the challenge. now even though i've only had 4 hours of sleep, i don't feel really tired, although i typically do with a normal night's worth of sleep. upon waking, i feel somewhat energized and then i see this post, which only bolsters those thoughts i had last night. best of all, there are many many ideas here that are new to me as well. thanks widescreened


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## sci_fli (Aug 16, 2006)

Matey how long did it take you to think of all that or did you knick it from a website? Come on. Joke. I also like the bit about "taking responsibility for yourself and your health." and you've just inspired me to do just that. I've been passive and sitting around for too long  Come on Guys get your act together. Search long and hard. Far and Wide. For your answers and don't stop untill you get your answer. The answer you require. Be it medication, psychotherapy, CBT, Friends, love, etc.etc. Keep going. we are born fighters espically when are own survival is at stake. DP Sucks but is curable.


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

I have DPD.



Ni Hi Li St. said:


> For those who have taken provigil with unsuccessful results, do you have DPD or DP? I'm wondering since sci_fli made an important distinction here and some people may not know the difference between the two (I, for one, didn't know).


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