# Well my theory on spirituality and afterlife



## needacure

Well when I was in heavy dp/dr insanity, I had many different theories on life and afterlife because the fear had caused me to think.

One of my theories was on the energy of evil and good. Putting it simply I believe(d) that the life we live can be a good positive one or a negative evil one. Now after we have passed on we either turn into positive or good energy that surrounds and influences this planet or even the universe or we become an evil or negative energy that influences this planet or even the universe. This energy isn't necessarily conscious, it is more like a roaming energy that works to serve it's purpose.

Now let's say this is true then if the majority of the people who have passed are negative energies then the majority of the energy that influences this planet is going to be a negative energy or evil energy. Today in my eyes, I see that evil is the majority energy. The more humans that lead the life of negativity and evil the more the evil energy that surrounds this planet will grow. Now this goes both ways, the same can be said by living the life of good, the planet can be surrounded by a majority of good energy, But ever notice how it is very hard to lead the life of good now days? With so many evil influences? This leads me to believe that evil energy is the majority.

I also believe at one point in time in history the evil that surrounded this planet grew so far that religion and books like the bible and Quran or anything came to be born. The teachings today whether you believe in them or not are becoming more and more denounced as technology grows and science is taught. People start to discredit these books as a whole rather than discrediting certain parts and they do not believe anymore so they have no fear and go on to do things that are evil and have no remorse.

I myself am not very religious but I do respect books like the Bible or the Quran. I believe in things like sin and morals. I have personally felt evil, the feeling is very powerful and twisted, it's hard to describe. Once you feel it, you will always acknowledge it believe me.

One thing I have learned through all this is that you have 2 things with you you have your brain's mind and you have your soul or your heart as some people call it. You follow one or the other, You either use your mind at all times and follow it's directions or you take your soul's advice and use your mind to guide you to it's destination. I believe your soul is the energy that is connected to a higher energy source and feeds it back and forth. Your mind is your GPS it is your guide through life. You have a mind map as I call it, it's all the things through your life that you have experienced and the locations you've been to and the directions that you know by heart, either to your school or your house or whatever it is. It can always be broadened by experiencing new things. A mind can also be polluted by all kinds of things, it needs it's servicing, it needs to be cleaned out. How do you clean it out? I use writing down what goes through my head on a daily basis and evaluate it. Write down why it bothers me and how it could be alleviated. Them more you keep thinking about the same things over and over the less room your mind has to grow.

What I'm trying to say is look at yourself and your thinking from an angle. Step away from your head and take note of your own self. Use your natural philosophical thinking ability to better your own mind. Philosophical minds tend to overload very quickly. Send your mind on a different route and don't always listen to your mind. Listen to your other tool, your SOUL.


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## LOSTONE

This topic should be moved.

There are two different spirituality sections here, you should post these types of topics in one of those sections.


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## needacure

LOSTONE said:


> This topic should be moved.
> 
> There are two different spirituality sections here, you should post these types of topics in one of those sections.


 :lol:

Wherever a *Moderator* would like to move it is fine by me.


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## LOSTONE

> Wherever a Moderator would like to move it is fine by me.


Yeah I think they are all sleeping right now.

No problem.

I would respond more to this but I think I have spoken enough about my beliefs on here for awhile.


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## Guest

I haven't seen g-funk or Homeskooled for a while... Sebastian asked about older members a few days back. We don't have any "active" mods.


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## LOSTONE

> We don't have any "active" mods.


Is Rev like the only Mod left around here or what?

Maybe it is time he got some new mods.

I would volunteer if I knew he was looking for help.


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## Guest

Beautiful picture but sorry there is no soul god spirit or afterlife

Ur bodies knows this REALIZE


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## LOSTONE

Just to point out the bible's standpoint on things.

The bible makes it pretty clear that *we are living souls. 
*
A soul is not something that the bible says we posses.

It basically has the same meaning as "life form" or "living being" in the bible.

Gen 2:7
And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.

"Nephesh" is the Hebrew word that was translated here as soul in English. It literally means *"breath,"* though it is usually used in the sense of *"living being" 
*

I would say more but I don't think I need to.


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## Guest

Yea its called a brain notin more nothinless bac then they didnt knowwhat the brain did now we do No soul yo


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## LOSTONE

Well soul is a real word that has a real meaning.

The meaning of the world is basically just a " living being"

Nothing more and nothing less.

The word spirit has a little deeper meening but it does not imply that we are anything more then what we are.

The teaching of an everlasting human soul that is immortal was spread mostly by the Catholic religion but actually originally came from other religions. It was a teaching that *was not based upon the bible *but came from other sources. That teaching was used to back up the teachings about Hell and Purgatory. And also it was used to back up the teaching about the trinity in an indirect way.

People can believe what they want.

I just want to make it clear that the bible does not teach anything about humans owning any kind of immortal soul. The bible says we are souls and it also says that when we die we go back to dust, we go back to the ground. Their is no immortal part of us that leaves our body and can not die. That's what the bible says anyway. The bible makes it clear that when we die then we are gone. Simply put, our thoughts become nothing.


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## jimmyb

I totally agree with need a cure, we are living souls, the soul projects energy into the make-up of our physical form i.e. our brain and causes our senses to communicate with us through electrical signals. Life is not all just electrical signals interpreted by the brain there must be a none physical drive and purpose - can you not feel that mentally ill? Well I believe your soul is your emotions, feelings and perception - the brain just works them.

Everything is made of light, The soul tells the brain how work the emotions, feel and sense the light.

E=mc2 and all that.


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## Guest

Yeah u are a soul as in physical person

spirit doesnt exist more than than magical soul


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## LOSTONE

When the bible speaks about your spirit or your spiritual side it is not talking about some immortal part of you that goes on living after you are dead.

It is talking about the "you", who you really are. It is something like your inner consciousness. And spirituality is your awarness that there is more to life then simply flesh and matarial things. This "spirit" is who we are inside, but the teaching that their is some magical spirit inside of us that goes on living after we have died is not a teaching found in the bible.

The bible does say that God is able to resurect us if he wishes to and he is able to do this because he is totally aware of our entire makeup. He can reconstruct everything that we are and bring us back into existance. But what the bible teaches for us right now is that when we die, we simply become dust. Our soul or spirit dies along with the rest of our body. We go back to the ground and in that day our thoughts become nothing. We are gone. From dust we have came into existance and to dust we shall return. That is what the bibles teaching is about what we are.


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## jimmyb

Thats pretty good, I believe that the inner energy of the soul is moved to another purpose, energy has to be transfered in someway.


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## LOSTONE

> energy has to be transfered in someway.


Yes, it is transfered back into the earth.

Thats what the bible says and science backs that up.

We die and then we turn into fertilizer.

LOL.

The original teachings of an immortal soul come from pagan religions (pagan from my point of view anyway), old religions that are not even followed anymore. Their old teachings have seeped into newer religions, some of those new religions sadly call themselves Christians even though they are teaching about many things that are not found in the bible, and some things that are clearly and directly against bible teachigns.

I just like to clear that up because many people think that the teaching of an immortal soul is a teaching that comes from the bible. I just want it to be clear that an "immortal human soul" is not at all a teaching of the bible and is actually the direct oppisite of what the bible says.


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## needacure

LOSTONE said:


> When the bible speaks about your spirit or your spiritual side it is not talking about some immortal part of you that goes on living after you are dead.
> 
> It is talking about the "you", who you really are. It is something like your inner consciousness. And spirituality is your awarness that there is more to life then simply flesh and matarial things. This "spirit" is who we are inside, but the teaching that their is some magical spirit inside of us that goes on living after we have died is not a teaching found in the bible.
> 
> The bible does say that God is able to resurect us if he wishes to and he is able to do this because he is totally aware of our entire makeup. He can reconstruct everything that we are and bring us back into existance. But what the bible teaches for us right now is that when we die, we simply become dust. Our soul or spirit dies along with the rest of our body. We go back to the ground and in that day our thoughts become nothing. We are gone. From dust we have came into existance and to dust we shall return. That is what the bibles teaching is about what we are.


I don't know which bible you've been reading but the Christian bible teaches that after you die, you either go to hell or you go to heaven.


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## LOSTONE

*Ps: 146:3,4

3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,
Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.

4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ge 3:19

In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.?

Eccl 9:10

All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She?ol, the place to which you are going.

Eccl 9:5,6

5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
*

The actual teaching of the bible is that it is the Earth that was made for mankind.

*Ps 37:9-11

9For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.

10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.

11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Psalms 37:29
The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

All of our sins are paid in full when we die. 
That payment is made by Jesus for anyone that is following him.

Ro 6:23
For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.*

I would go on to explain in detail about the accurate teaching of what hell is and the lake of fire that hell is tossed into but I don't want to fill up one post with to many scriptures. I will just say that hell is a symbolic illustration for death just the same way that the lake of fire is a symbolic illustration for the death of death. When all those in "hell" are cast into the lake of fire then that means the end for any possibility of any of those people ever being brought back to life. They are totally consumed in the lake of fire. Simply put, they are gone forever. They will never exist again in the same way that anything burned in fire is gone forever.

The teaching of the bible is very clear.

When we humans die that is the end of all our thought and feelings. We return to the ground. We go right back to where we came from. From dust we came into existence and to dust we will return.

That is obviously the teaching of the bible.

There is no mistaking the scriptures I just posted.

Check any bible translation you want. The meaning of those scriptures will stay the same no matter what translation you use.


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## needacure

LOSTONE said:


> *Ps: 146:3,4
> 
> 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,
> Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.
> 
> 4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground;
> In that day his thoughts do perish.
> 
> Ge 3:19
> 
> In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.?
> 
> Eccl 9:10
> 
> All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She?ol, the place to which you are going.
> 
> Eccl 9:5,6
> 
> 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.
> *
> 
> The actual teaching of the bible is that it is the Earth that was made for mankind.
> 
> *Ps 37:9-11
> 
> 9For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
> But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.
> 
> 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
> And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
> 
> 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
> And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
> 
> Psalms 37:29
> The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
> And they will reside forever upon it.
> 
> All of our sins are paid in full when we die.
> That payment is made by Jesus for anyone that is following him.
> 
> Ro 6:23
> For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.*
> 
> I would go on to explain in detail about the accurate teaching of what hell is and the lake of fire that hell is tossed into but I don't want to fill up one post with to many scriptures. I will just say that hell is a symbolic illustration for death just the same way that the lake of fire is a symbolic illustration for the death of death. When all those in "hell" are cast into the lake of fire then that means the end for any possibility of any of those people ever being brought back to life. They are totally consumed in the lake of fire. Simply put, they are gone forever. They will never exist again in the same way that anything burned in fire is gone forever.
> 
> The teaching of the bible is very clear.
> 
> When we humans die that is the end of all our thought and feelings. We return to the ground. We go right back to where we came from. From dust we came into existence and to dust we will return.
> 
> That is obviously the teaching of the bible.
> 
> There is no mistaking the scriptures I just posted.
> 
> Check any bible translation you want. The meaning of those scriptures will stay the same no matter what translation you use.


Sounds too good to be true


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## LOSTONE

> Sounds too good to be true


The bibles own writings make a lot more sense to me then what most people are teaching about the bible.

The idea that a loving God would torment his creations in hellfire is crazy.

God has been doing everything possible to save sinners.

Why would he do so much for sinners and then cast them all into hell?

It is a backwards teaching that only confuses people about what the bible actually teaches. And it confuses people about who God really is.

It actually makes many people view God as being evil for creating such a place. That is why it is obvious to me that the only one that would be pleased about the common teachings about hell would be Satan the Devil. It has been his objective from the beginning of time to create slander about God and make God look evil. That is what he did in the garden of Eden and he is still doing that up until this day.

If someone says something to you about the bible then you should first consider that it is a lie because most of what is being preached about the bible are all lies. If you want to know the truth then read the bible and study the bible with people that actually use scriptures to teach rather then teaching opinions and teachings of men.


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## Pablo

LOSTONE said:


> [If someone says something to you about the bible then you should first consider that it is a lie because most of what is being preached about the bible are all lies. If you want to know the truth then read the bible and study the bible with people that actually use scriptures to teach rather then teaching opinions and teachings of men.


The fact is that even those people who teach using scriptures will filter the meaning and significance of those scriptures through their own subjective belief system, as you will also when you read them yourself. Also the scriptures themselves have been translated and are not original sources so therefore it is impossible to say whether the true meaning behind them remain or whether they have been altered.

Why learn from a book at all? By studying yourself and the world around you it is possible to get all the information you need about truth and it is a much more reliable method than an old book which has been modified like chinese whispers.


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## LOSTONE

> Also the scriptures themselves have been translated and are not original sources so therefore it is impossible to say whether the true meaning behind them remain or whether they have been altered.


Thats not true because the original Greek and Hebrew text are still around today.

If you want to know what the exact meaning of any scripture is then you can look it up.



> The fact is that even those people who teach using scriptures will filter the meaning and significance of those scriptures through their own subjective belief system


You are talking about what is called "lies".

The bible is clear, it speaks for itself.

Name the topic and I can show you the scriptures.

There is no way to misunderstand something as clear as this

"5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun. "

All bible teachings are as clear as that teaching about death.

The teachings that go against the bible are very simply called "lies"

The bible even talks about why people create these lies. And there are even prophecies about the different lies that would spark up about the bible and about the false religions that would pop up after Jesus death.

The problem is that people pay to much attention to what their religious leaders say and not enough attention to the bible itself. This is why the lies are so easily believed by many people.



> Why learn from a book at all? By studying yourself and the world around you it is possible to get all the information you need about truth and it is a much more reliable method than an old book which has been modified like chinese whispers.


Because that book "the bible" is inspired by our creator.

I would never tell anyone to just blindly follow what the bible says. It is important to keep awake and to be aware of all things so that you know that you are going the right direction in life. That is actually how I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is inspired by God for our benefit. I came to that conclusion by paying attention to all things and keeping my mind open so I could find the answers that I was looking for. Even though I never thought I would find the answers, I kept looking anyway. And now I don't need to look anymore. I already know where the answers are. Now all I do is continue to study and pay attention to what is going on so that I can understand how to follow Jesus Christ. Looking toward nature and science and blocking out everything else only leaves a person in a state of loss because science and nature *can not and never will* answer any of the important questions that we should all be asking.

The bible is not just old but it actually took almost 2,000 years to write. Think about that. It has only been about 2,000 years since Jesus died and the bible writings were completed. But it has been almost 4,000 years since the beginning of the bible writing. All those 2,000 years of bible writings put into one single book that is totally in harmony. Some of the prophecies about our time were actually wrote about 3,000-4,000 years ago and they have come true in our modern day.

The bible may be old from our viewpoint but from God's viewpoint it was just wrote moments ago. 2,000 years is like nothing to Jehovah. And the bible has obviously stood the test of time. Each year there are hundreds of thousands more people getting baptized and dedicating their lives to Jehovah from all over the earth! Just as the bible predicted, the entire earth is being preached to about the bible and millions are taking up God's offer of Jesus ransom sacrificial death.


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## Pablo

LOSTONE said:


> Also the scriptures themselves have been translated and are not original sources so therefore it is impossible to say whether the true meaning behind them remain or whether they have been altered.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats not true because the original Greek and Hebrew text are still around today.
> 
> If you want to know what the exact meaning of any scripture is then you can look it up.
> .
Click to expand...

Yes the original Greek and Hebrew text are around but they were written hundreds of years after the time of Jesus so they are not original sources so how do you know that they are reliable, they could have been heavily modified or censored in the time between they were created to when they were written down. Its like trusting chinese whispers as fact then basing your life around them.


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## LOSTONE

> Yes the original Greek and Hebrew text are around but they were written hundreds of years after the time of Jesus so they are not original sources so how do you know that they are reliable, they could have been heavily modified or censored in the time between they were created to when they were written down.


Actually we do have writings that are dated by carbon testing and by handwriting analysis to be placed at between the 2end century BC and the 1st century AD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

These scrolls prove many things. They prove that the bible writings have remained unchanged since they were originally wrote and they also prove that many of the prophecies of the bible were indeed wrote before the events to fulfill those prophecies took place.

There have been many attempts to alter the bible and also to even destroy it. Many of the people throughout history that translated and printed the bible were actually burned to death for their efforts. The bible has stood the test of time though. The Dead sea scrolls along with many other sources is proof of this.

It is pointless in questioning the bibles accuracy any longer. Historians and scientist have been doing it for years. Each time the bible has proven itself to be correct and all the charges against it have proven to be wrong. There are many new charges being brought up against the bible each and every day but it's perfect track record for being accurate is convincing enough for me to believe that the bible will never be proven to be wrong about anything. I believe that because it has never been proven to be wrong about anything, even though there has been enormous effort to find some flaw with the bible in order to prove it to be wrong.

If people continue to look for ways to prove the bible wrong then they will always be able to come up with new ideas. The only way anyone can ever find out the truth about the bible is to look to the bible for answers. It is a matter of choice. Whatever people are looking for then that is what they will find. If you are looking for an excuse to go on living and not care about God then that is what you will find. You will find all the excuses you need. If you choose to search for answers and you open your heart up toward God and search for him then he himself will prove himself to you.

2 Ti 2:19
For all that, the solid foundation of God stays standing, having this seal: ?Jehovah knows those who belong to him,? and: ?Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.?

God knows who his people are and those people are the ones that will be able to understand the truth. For everyone else the truth will remain hidden.

Mt 11:25
At that time Jesus said in response: ?I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes.

This is due to the willful decision of many people to blind themselves of the truth and to walk against Jesus rather then to walk with him.

2Th 2:19-12
9 But the lawless one?s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

*2Ti 4:3,4

3 For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories. *

So it is clear from the bibles standpoint that if you do not search for God then you will probably never find him. If you desire to live in accord with your own desires and seek to prove God to not exist then God will leave you to your devices. People that are not looking for the truth will never find it. I am only noting this just in case some of you out there are unsure of your own beliefs. If anyone is looking for answers from God then I want to fully assure you that all your answers can be found in accurate bible teachings *(**teachings that come from the bible**)*. The only reason there is any confusion is because of the willful desires of men to believe in themselves to decide what is right and what is wrong. If any of you are looking for God with an honest and open heart then you will find the truth about who God is and what he wants for us.

Here is some more information for anyone that wants to learn about what the future holds for this earth and our life on this earth.

The Meek Shall
Inherit the Earth

?As in Heaven,
Also Upon Earth?
http://watchtower.org/e/20060815/article_01.htm
(Two page article)

That article clearly shows what the bible says about life after death. Just thought some of you might be interested in the bibles viewpoint on things. If you click on the scriptures that are highlighted then they will automatically pop up so you can read directly from the scriptures.

*Psalms 37:29

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.*


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## CECIL

LOSTONE said:


> The original teachings of an immortal soul come from pagan religions (pagan from my point of view anyway), old religions that are not even followed anymore.


Lots of those "religions" are still alive and well today - Wicca, Shamanism, Druidism etc. Slaughtering a few million people in the name of the Christian God and a few book barbecues never stopped anyone 

Btw, a whole lot of christian mythology was stolen from those other faiths, just twisted around in order for the Church to control people.


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## LOSTONE

> a whole lot of christian mythology was stolen from those other faiths, just twisted around in order for the Church to control people


Yes I am very aware of this.

Part of the knowledge that I have gotten from studying with the Witnesses has been a history lesson about many of the different beliefs in the world today. It is good to know where different beliefs come from and why their teachings were started in the first place. Christmas for example was originally a pagan Roman holiday that was turned into a Christian/Saturnalia holiday so that both Christians and Pagan Romans would be able to unite and find a common holiday to observe. That move was made because of the divisions that were taking place among the Roman citizens. It really has nothing to do With Jesus Christ and in fact the bible does not even say when Jesus was born, obviously because his birth was not intended to be a day of celebration. Now Christmas is filled with all kinds of different influences from many different religions and customs from different parts of the world.

Most of the religions of today are just a buffet of collected and made up teachings that actually contradict what the bible says. These religions are making a mockery out of God rather then sanctifying his name as they should be doing.


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## Guest

ahahahaha yea shamanism is 5hundred thousand years old and earth is 6thousand years old


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## LOSTONE

> earth is 6thousand years old


Why do you keep saying that???


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## Pablo

LOSTONE said:


> Actually we do have writings that are dated by carbon testing and by handwriting analysis to be placed at between the 2end century BC and the 1st century AD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls
> 
> These scrolls prove many things. They prove that the bible writings have remained unchanged since they were originally wrote


errr no that does not prove that the bible has remained unchanged, how did you reach that conclusion? that proves that the earliest records are hundreds of years after the life of Jesus, surely that is enough time for things to have been altered.


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## LOSTONE

> that proves that the earliest records are hundreds of years after the life of Jesus


?

200 BC means 200 years before Jesus birth.

According to carbon dating, textual analysis, and handwriting analysis the documents were written at various times between the middle of the 2nd century BC and the 1st century AD. At least one document has a carbon date range of 21 BC?61 AD.

Frequency of books found

Books Ranked According to Number of Manuscripts found (top 16)[5]
Books ↓ No. found ↓
Psalms 39
Deuteronomy 33
1 Enoch 25
Genesis 24
Isaiah 22
Jubilees 21
Exodus 18
Leviticus 17
Numbers 11
Minor Prophets 10
Daniel 8
Jeremiah 6
Ezekiel 6
Job 6
1 & 2 Samuel 4

Most of those have been dated to have been wrote BC.

This is very important because of the hundreds of prophecies about Jesus life that are in those books. Issiah for example talked so clearly about Jesus life that it almost seems as if Jesus was a close friend of Issiah even though it is very clear that Issiah was wrote long before Jesus was born. Isaiah was actually completed at about the year 732 BC and there are many sources that back that date up, the dead sea scrolls are just one of those sources.

None of the Greek scriptures are found in the dead sea scrolls because the scrolls were placed in those caves before the Greek scriptures were wrote. The dead sea scrolls do back up all the events of Jesus life though because of the hundreds of prophecies that are in those scrolls that were fulfilled in Jesus.

The dead sea scrolls actually prove two things.

1. The bible has not been altered between the time of the original writings up until the time that the Septuagint was put together. The Septuagint being the source for all modern bible translations.

2. Many of the bible prophecies that are in the Hebrew scriptures were wrote before the events took place. For example the prophecy about Babylon that was not totally fulfilled until the fourth century C.E.

"Babylon was conquered by the Medes and the Persians in 539 B.C.E., Isaiah?s prophecy was not completely fulfilled at that time. In fact, there were still people living in Babylon down to the first century C.E. (1 Peter 5:13) Apparently, it was not until the fourth century C.E. that Babylon became finally desolated, thus completely fulfilling Isaiah?s words. There is no doubt that Isaiah wrote his book before that, for even the Dead Sea Scrolls (Bible manuscripts first discovered in 1947) contain a copy of Isaiah dating from the first or second century B.C.E."

There is a great deal more that I could write here but I am trying to keep my posts short and simple.


----------



## Pablo

I thought you were talking new testament because that is all cabon dated at the earliest 300AD, I didnt realise you were talking old testament, it seems you know your stuff far more than I ever will, and im sure you can poke holes in your own arguments far better than I can 

All the prophecies still come back to loose interpretation, Jews dont interpret the prophecies the same way so they dont believe that Jesus was the saviour, are they wrong? who knows, its all down to subjective interpretation. I had a jehovas witness come to my door recently and I thought I would listen to what she has to say and she showed me a prophecy about the loss of law and order and said "this is what is happening now, this proves that this is the truth" and I was :? you can interpret it that way or any other way, its down to what you want to believe.

I dont see very much consciousness or love in the jehovas witnesses I have met, I think that their actions are actually quite agressive in nature, they are just another branch which says my interpretation is right and all of yours is wrong.

My own belief is that Jesus was an alchemist from the Egyptian Hermetic tradition and was most probably influenced by many other traditons such as Buddhism and if you want to actually walk the path of Jesus and move beyond the dogmatic rules prescribed by the traditional Christian ways and raise your own consciousness to a higher level you have to look to the esoteric side of Christianity which offers something more than "Do this or you will go to hell" because it is obvious that having that approach does more harm than good. I dont know why people cant clearly see that rules and scriptures arent enough to raise your consciousness and make you more loving, it doesnt matter if you are Jehovas witness or catholic, rules and bible teaching is not enough, you need esoteric teaching and techniques which address every aspect of a person to get anywhere.


----------



## LOSTONE

> it seems you know your stuff far more than I ever will, and im sure you can poke holes in your own arguments far better than I can Smile.


Yes I could probably make a better argument against the bible then anyone because I know so much about it. A follower of Christ would make the best anti Christ and that knowledge actually scares me because there was a time when I was very angry toward God. I could make the bible look very, very bad if I wanted to, just so I could get what I want. I know I would never be able to tell lies about the bible though because the truth about God is that he is indeed Love. That does not mean that Love is God, it just means that God is the very personification of love. I am just aware that what God has done for us humans is more then we are even willing to do for ourselves. I have had a lot of hate inside of me over the years but it is impossible for me now to mislead myself in any way and direct any of my hate toward God. I know to much about God to ever be able to mislead myself about who he is. I am more sure about who Jehovah is then I am about my own self. 
So I will never poke holes in my own argument.
I simply tell others what I know.
I can't do anything else, any other desires have already left me.



> My own belief is that Jesus was an alchemist from the Egyptian Heremtic tradition


Wow.

I knew a guy in high school that made a song called "Jesus the Jewish Magician", it sounded something like a NIN song but more crazy obviously. This guy really believed that Jesus was just a Magician but something about Jesus goes way past simple slight of hand Magic tricks.

That is the fact that in Jesus life their were hundreds of prophecies fulfilled. Prophecies that were wrote and scattered throughout all of the Hebrew scriptures. The very first prophecy of the bible is actually about Jesus Christ, that is the prophecy at Genesis 3:15.

So I think it would be odd that Jesus was able to fulfill all these prophecies with some simple magic trick or anything like that.

Anyway the teachings of Jesus that are found in the bible are perfect. 
There is no point in linking Jesus with alchemy or anything else because what the bible tells us about Jesus is all that we need in order to survive this world.

Here are the words of Mahatma Gandhi about Jesus Christ teachings.

"If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today."

Notice what he said about Christians living in accordance with Jesus teachings. The problem that makes many people turn away from the bible is the hypocrisy of many religions that claim to follow Jesus teaching. 
Jesus teachings are perfect. It is the "false followers" of Jesus that are making his teaching look bad.

Jesus once pointed out the entire point of the bible and the entire sum of what we should be doing with our lives. There is no teaching that gets better then this.

Mt 22:36-40
36 ?Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?? 37 He said to him: ??You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.? 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ?You must love your neighbor as yourself.? 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.?

So with hundreds of prophecies backing up the identity of Jesus and a perfect teaching of Love coming from him, why would anyone turn away from him and look anywhere else for guidance?



> and if you want to actually walk the path of Jesus and move beyond the dogmatic rules prescribed by the traditional Christian ways and raise your own consciousness to a higher level you have to look to the esoteric side of Christianity which offers something more than "Do this or you will go to hell" because it is obvious that having that approach does more harm than good.


Their is no other approach to following Jesus other then the approach of love. True Christians do not teach anything like what you wrote here "Do this or you will go to hell". And Jesus teachings are not based upon traditions of Christianity. Christianity should be based upon Jesus teachings. Any religion that is not basing their teachings and beliefs upon Jesus Christ teachings that come from the bible are obviously not real followers of Jesus.

Jesus told us that the most important thing was for us to have love for each other. Mercy is a part of this love. The entire point of Jesus death was so that we would have a payment for our sins. No humans would be able to live without Jesus ransom. So Jesus teachings are not so harsh as to be anything like "Do this or you will go to hell".

Jesus showed us how to live our lives and he always stressed the need to display love toward God and toward fellow human beings.

That love of God is what motivates true followers of Jesus Christ to serve Jehovah God.

1 John 5:3
For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome.

True followers of Jesus Christ do not display a selfish mindset in that they are only focused upon their own salvation. The motivation for any true followers of Jesus is love. Jesus Christ did not come to the earth to enact strict laws like this "Do this or you will go to hell", his motivation for coming here to the earth was Love and that should be the motivation for anyone following him.

If everyone would display true love toward God and true love toward their neighbor then there would be no need for any laws.

*Love is the laws fulfillment* and that was the point in Jesus Christ coming down to this earth.

Ro 13:9,10
9 For the [law code], ?You must not commit adultery, You must not murder, You must not steal, You must not covet,? and whatever other commandment there is, is summed up in this word, namely, ?You must love your neighbor as yourself.? 10 Love does not work evil to one?s neighbor; therefore love is the law?s fulfillment.

Alchemy will not save anyone from death. 
Only Jesus ransom sacrifice is able to do that.


----------



## LOSTONE

> I dont see very much consciousness or love in the jehovas witnesses I have met


That is because you are making quick judgments about them.

If you understood them better then you would change your mind.

Their love is expressed by following the bibles teachings.

One example is what happened in Nazi Germany. 
The people there were being forced to join the military and fight in a bloody war for human power. Most religions had no problem with fighting this war and getting deeply involved in it on both sides of the battle lines. The Jews were killed simply for being Jews. The Jehovah's Witnesses however were put in with the Jews simply because they would not join the war effort because of what the bible says about God's people no longer taking part in any wars. Unlike the Jews, these Witnesses were given a chance to free themselves by simply renouncing their God. All they had to do was sign a piece of paper saying that they were no longer Jehovah's Witnesses. Love compelled these people to stick to their God and renounce war and prove that they were true followers of Jesus Christ and not simply followers of men.

Many of those Jehovah's Witnesses died because they were not willing to goto war and kill other human beings.

While the entire world was killing each other the Jehovah's Witnesses were peacefully following the teachings of Jesus Christ and not getting involved in the bloodshed.

As far as the situation with the Jews goes. They did not really have a chance to fight and that is the only reason they did not fight. As soon as they did get a chance to fight then they did go on and create a whole new war of their own in the middle east.

The only group of people I know on this earth that are following Jesus teaching or displaying the qualities of love for fellow human beings are the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The fact that they are aggressive in their preaching work is simply an expression of their love for other human beings.

They do not get paid for their work. 
They do it out of love for their neighbors and out of love for their God Jehovah. They desire to help anyone they possibly can to learn the truth about God so that they may save whoever is listening to the message from Jesus.

Any aggressiveness in their preaching work is simply a result of their deep desire to inform other people about the truth of the bible.

Here is some more info about what I posted if you want to read it.

Jehovah's Witnesses
Courageous in the
Face of Nazi Peril
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

People can believe whatever they want, but my beliefs are set in stone that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only people on earth that take Jehovah God seriously, and they are the only people on earth displaying love toward him.

These are the people I choose to learn from so that I myself can learn how to find a love for God in the same way that they have.

I can not say who God is going to make judgments against and who he might have mercy for. All I know is that the Jehovah's Witnesses are following bible teachings and displaying a very great deal of love toward God and other fellow human beings. Therefore it is my desire to become one of them myself.


----------



## Pablo

The Bible preeches love yes but do you think that will-power and mental effort is enough to make people follow the Bible teachings?
Do you really think it is just a matter of people misunderstanding the Bible and not trying hard enough why people arent full of love for each other? Because if you do then it is probably not worth me saying anything else.

It seems perfectly obvious to me that rules and commands to be more loving do nothing to make you more loving. How can you force love using will-power? you need methods to transform your negative states before any love is going to blosom and every religion has an esoteric aspect which gives you such methods. Most mass popular religions dont even give you advice about how to deal with unwanted emotions but the esoteric part of each relgion does, just investigate a bit into Christian Alchemy or Islamic Sufism and they will actually prescribe you methods to make you a more loving person because those with wisom realise that commands and threats of hell etc are not enough, you need methods and practises to transform a person, you cant just say "be this way" and expect a person to be that way.

At the moment you just sound exactly the same as every other religious group in the world: My way is right, yours is wrong! I follow the true path, you dont!

What do you think Jesus was doing between his birth and the stories in the Bible? If you study the Hermetic arts and Alchemy you will see the evidence for yourself that Jesus was heavily influenced by these paths.


----------



## LOSTONE

Pablo

If you want to know what the bible really teaches and you really want to understand what love really is then you need to look to the bible for answers.

You can't make judgments about the bible based upon opinions of people that know nothing about the bible. You also can not make judgments about Jehovah's Witnesses based upon what other peoples opinions are about the Witnesses.

Well you can make judgments if you want but all of them are going to most likely be wrong. If you want to make a judgment then you have to take a look at it for yourself. For example, if you want to make a good opinion about what Jehovah's witnesses teach then ask them about it. If you want to know what the bible teaches then read the bible.

Most of the things people say in this world are lies. That is why if you really want the truth then you have to go to the root of things and get information about things yourself.

On the issue of Love.

There is not really many topics that are so well covered as the topic of love by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

The bible makes it very clear what love is.

John 15:13
No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his soul in behalf of his friends.

1Co 13:4-7
4 Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, 5 does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. 6 It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

1John 4:18
There is no fear in love, but perfect love throws fear outside, because fear exercises a restraint. Indeed, he that is under fear has not been made perfect in love.

As I said, the Witnesses have published a great deal of information on the topic if you would like to read it.

Here are some links.

How We Learn to Love: 3 Pages.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_02.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_03.htm

LOVE OF NEIGHBOR
Has Grown Cold
PG 1
http://www.watchtower.org/library/kn35/article_01.htm

LOVE OF NEIGHBOR
A Reality
PG 2
http://www.watchtower.org/library/kn35/article_02.htm

When All People
WILL LOVE ONE ANOTHER
Pg 3
http://www.watchtower.org/library/kn35/article_03.htm

CAN RELIGION UNITE MANKIND?
Pg 1
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm

United by LOVE OF GOD
Pg 2
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_02.htm

Can We Save Our Marriage?
Trapped in a Loveless Marriage
Pg 1
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Why Does Love Fade?
Pg 2
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_02.htm

Is There Reason for Hope?
Pg 3
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_03.htm

Your Marriage Can Be Saved!
Pg 4
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_04.htm

This one is interesting for us on Dpselfhelp.

When Someone
You Love Has a
Mental Disorder
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a little to read about the examples of Witnesses love. 
CHRISTIANITY IN ACTION
Amid Turmoil
Christian Love Put Into Practice
http://www.watchtower.org/e/19980115/article_01.htm

Empathy
Key to Kindness and Compassion

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm

God Really Cares
About You
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_02.htm

The Golden Rule?A Universal Teaching
Pg 1
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm

Pg 2
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_02.htm

What Does God Require of Us?
http://www.watchtower.org/e/rq/index.htm

And here is a website where you can read about the news of the Witnesses that are in prison and being killed right now in many places because of their love for Jehovah God. Being persecuted for simply preaching the good news of God's Kingdom. 
The fact that these people do not shrink back from this persecution is proof of their love.

This website also shows some of the other good things the Witnesses are doing around the world besides preaching the good news.

http://www.jw-media.org/

News for Africa and Middle East.
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index. ... e_east.htm

News for the Americas
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index. ... ericas.htm

News for Asia and the Pacific
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index. ... acific.htm

News for Europe
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index. ... europe.htm

Global News
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index. ... global.htm

Now I must say this is not about Quote: "My way is right, yours is wrong! I follow the true path, you dont! "

This is about speaking the truth.

Jehovah's Witnesses speak the truth about the bible. If you do not like what the bible says then they will not bother you and neither will I. 
But let me be very clear about this. Jehovah's Witnesses do not judge anyone. They are simply preaching and teaching the truth about the bible, Jehovah God and Jehovah's Kingdom.

If you do not want to know about the bible or about Jehovah or Jehovah's Kingdom then do not bother talking to the witnesses about religion because the Witnesses are Witnesses of Jehovah God and his son whom he sent to the earth, Christ Jesus.

Now when it comes to the truth about the bible. I personally can show any of you the scriptures in the bible to back up everything that the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. 
All Witnesses are able to back up what they teach by simply reading from the bible.

One thing that the bible clearly teaches is that there is one God who is Jehovah and there is only one true faith.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.

So it is not just the teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses that there is one God, one Lord, one faith and one baptism. It is a very clear teaching of the bible.

If you are set in your belief that the bible is not the word of God then my only advise is that you take another look at the bible because there is no other hope for mankind then Jesus ransom sacrifice, without that free gift then we are all dead. That is obvious to most people anyway. Most people have accepted death as a part of life.

I personally feel that everlasting life is worth this entire life I now have because 80 years is nothing compared to everlasting life in a perfect paradise world where only peace and joy will exist forever. War and terror will be a thing forgotten and not even brought back to mind for those surviving this world.

I will never stop studying and learning more about how it may be possible for me myself to gain that everlasting life in paradise or how to help others gain their own eternal life.

There is nothing in this world that means more then eternal life. I search for the truth about this subject more then I would search for all the treasure of the world. 

Thats all I would expect everyone else to be doing. Since it is very clear we are all facing death very soon.

We only have one chance to get this short life right.

We can spend our time here wasting ourselves or we can search with all our heart for the true God that created us. The choice is up to each of us to decide for ourselves what path we wish to go down in life. I guess only time will tell where we all end up in a million years from now.

If anyone wants to read any of those posts in another language then here is a list of 310 languages to choose from.
http://www.watchtower.org/languages.htm


----------



## Pablo

You got me Lostone I finally relented and read some of the pages from your watchtower site and it is very noble in its aspirations and intentions and certainly preeches love, it said pretty much what I expected: love your neighbour, treat your children well, dont just focus on money and material things focus on God.

It is all good advice, but what about the dark side of life, what about the *fact* that we are full on anger, resentment and even hatred at times, what about the extreme sexual feelings we all have which sometimes turns into perversity, what about the neurosis that is all around? im sure the Jehovas witnesses are just as full of sexual perversity and neurosis as everybody else because they are just as ill-informed and ill-prepared to deal with the shadow side of human life as most other people, they end up repressing it rather than dealing with it.

You can blame this side of humanity on the Devil if you want but it is just immature denial of what humans are really like. The Jehovas witnesses advice for these states is focus on the good and "control your emotions" , in other words repress that which is unwanted, but in real life the psychiatrists office is full of people who "control their emotions".

Buddhists, Alchemists, Taoists, Sufis, all have exercises which involve you working with the energy of these "negative" emotions like sexual energy and anger so they can either be dissipated safely or transformed into creativity, whereas Jehovas witnesses and Christians offer repression or prayer to God. Which is the better path, working with the energies and transforming them or repressing them? because it is repression which is the real cause of evil and darkness in the world not the Devil.

I try not to judge anyone and make up my own views but I see nearly all Christian branches as the same in that they are completely idealistic and one sided in that they want to focus on the good and loving part of life and completely ignore the bad ugly side of life and it is only those paths which are willing to tackle the uglyness which is within each of us which I think have any hope of success. I even think that these paths are overall more loving than the Jehova Christain paths because in my view there is no difference between love and acceptance and only those paths which accept a human in its totality (including its uglyness) can really make a person more accepting and thus more loving.

Still I doubt anything I say is going to change your views Lostone and I doubt anything you say will change mine because it is not important to me if the Bible is the word of God because the Bible is just a book and a book is just a map and as they say the map is not the territory. Its more important to learn from the actual territory ie life which is the work of God than from a map which is the word. and seeing as we are all Gods creatures every word written is the word of God so we can learn from every book about the truth of life.


----------



## LOSTONE

Pablo I understand exactly why you feel the way you do toward religion.

I have tormented myself thinking about all the horrible things in this world and often wondering why God allows these horrible things to happen if he really loves any of us. I have also felt that religion is just a group of blind people that don't realize what is going on in reality. I have even had the idea in my head years ago that maybe God was actually evil.

The fact that we were created has been stuck in my head since I was about 16 and I took the subject seriously. For me it is very obvious we were created. So what comes after that realization is a million more questions.

After about 10 years of looking toward this world for answers and looking toward the bible and the Jehovah's Witnesses and going back and forth, I have come to the conclusion that the only people that really know what is going on here are the Jehovah's Witnesses. That is my opinion but my opinion is based on a lot of knowledge that I have gained from the Witnesses and from this world.

We humans often jump to conclusions very quickly about things and that makes sense because we don't really have the time to look into everything we are told. If we spent time investigating everything that we hear then we would be examining information for an eternity. So our minds are set up to make quick decisions and move on.

When it comes to religion though, I think it is wise to keep an open mind and get as much info as possible before making any conclusions about anything. Realizing your own human limitations is a good start. This is a very important subject and if you get this wrong then it may mean the loss of your life.

If you want to understand why there are so many horrible and evil things going on in this world then the bible can give you a very clear and understandable answer for that.

If you want to know how the Witnesses handle the evil in the world then you may want to talk to them more about that.

They have printed an huge amount of information about how to handle different problems that may come at you during your life.

Each month they print 2 Watchtower magazines and 1 Awake magazine that are printed in almost 500 languages so that everyone around the world can read them and get the same information. There is no other organization that even comes close to accomplishing anything like what the Witnesses have accomplished in this matter. They have even had to design their own translation computers and programs because nothing existed that could handle the massive demand for quick translation that they needed for their magazines, books and bibles.

The main point of the Watchtower society is to get the right information out to people at the right time. So that people as individuals can make the right choices for themselves. Jehovah's Witnesses are dedicated to Jehovah God and not to the Watchtower society. The society main focus is so that anyone seeking Jehovah God on this earth will be able to find him and to get to know him well. And also to give out a warning about the coming end of this system of things. To give a warning to the earth about the Judgment day of Jehovah God.

If you want to read about some of the topics that the Watchtower Society has on the internet about some of the bad things in this world then I will post some of those links here.

You can look at this information any way you want. But I will say again that this is not about me being right and you being wrong. Jehovah's Witnesses don't look at things like that. No Jehovah's Witness believes that they have the right to judge anyone on this earth. The only thing that is proclaimed by the Witnesses is that they are preaching the truth about the bible and about Jehovah God, just in the same way that Jesus Christ did 2,000 years ago.

God will decide who is right and who is wrong. The objective for all Jehovah's Witnesses is to be on God's side and to gain his approval. They do this by doing everything possible to share their knowledge of the bible with anyone that is seeking that knowledge. They are all interested in teaching others what the bible actually says. They are not interested in judging other people. They only desire to help anyone they possibly can.

So here are some of the links from some of the pages I looked up about some of the bad things.

This one is a 4 page article that covers many topics.

Your Life-Style
What Are the Risks?
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 1 page short article
Comfort
for the
Afflicted
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 6 page article mostly about Suicide and Loneliness.

Life Is Worth Living
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 3 page article about drinking.

The Drinking Trap
Are You at Risk?
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 1 page article called
Comfort for Those With a
"Stricken Spirit"
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/199 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 4 page article called
UNDERSTANDING
MOOD DISORDERS

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 4 page article about stress and PTSD.
Stress?
"The Silent Killer"

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 2 page article called 
A Cry for
HELP

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm

1 page article about how to treat Children.
Giving Children the Attention They Need
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 5 page article called
Tormented By PHOBIAS

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 1 page article called
How Can I
Control My
Emotions?

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

This is a 1 page article called

I Won My Battle With
POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a one page article called
Tinnitus?A Noise to Live With?
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 4 page article called
SUICIDE

The Hidden Epidemic
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 4 page article about Eating Disorders
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 1 page article called
How Can I Cope
When Tragedy
Strikes?
http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 3 page article called
PORNOGRAPHY
Harmless or Harmful?

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 3 page article called
DRUG ABUSE
IN THE FAMILY

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 1 page article called 
Should Christians Expect Divine Protection?

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

Here is a 3 page article called

Help for Children With Learning Disabilities
Living With a Learning Disability

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/199 ... cle_01.htm

Here is 1 page called
What Is Provoking
THE AGE OF RAGE?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020208a/article_01.htm

Here is a 7 page article called
Tuberculosis?The Return of a Killer

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19971222/article_01.htm

Here is 1 page about 
HIGH
BLOOD
PRESSURE

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020408a/article_01.htm

Here is a 2 page article called
Why Does God Allow Us to Suffer?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20030101/article_01.htm

Here is a 2 page article called
Why Does God Permit Suffering?

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20010515/article_01.htm

Here are a bunch about poverty.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/199 ... cle_01.htm

There are thousands more but I have to get off of the computer now.



> Still I doubt anything I say is going to change your views Lostone and I doubt anything you say will change mine because it is not important to me if the Bible is the word of God because the Bible is just a book and a book is just a map


Yes it is a map.
It is a map to everlasting life. And it is a map to learn how humans are supposed to be living. It is also a map for us to better understand who our creator is.

There is no better map in this world. God has placed the truth in all of our hearts and also in the bible. If you ever do study the bible and your heart condition is right then I am sure you will eventually come to the same conclusions about things that I have come to. That is that Men do not have the ability to decide for themselves what is right and wrong. The world we have created by trying to rule over ourselves is mostly a total nightmare. My belief is that our creator Jehovah God is the only one that has the right or ability to decide what is right and what is wrong for us. 
I also believe that the only hope for humanity is the hope that Jehovah God has given to us by sending his son here to die for our mistakes.

Human wisdom has created a nightmare version of what earth was supposed to be like. I do not trust much at all in human wisdom anymore because it is obviously seriously flawed. I trust in Jehovah God and in the bible because everything I see coming from Jehovah God is perfect. I see no flaw in him. And I see no flaw in his wisdom.


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## LOSTONE

> im sure the Jehovas witnesses are just as full of sexual perversity and neurosis as everybody else because they are just as ill-informed and ill-prepared to deal with the shadow side of human life as most other people, they end up repressing it rather than dealing with it.


Actually that is something you are very wrong about.

1. Jehovah's Witnesses are overwhelmingly informed about things. They actually have 5 meetings a week to cover all the different topics so that no members of any congregation may have a problem that they do not know how to handle. Also they have district conventions and circuit assemblies every year so they can get extra info on some specific topic. For example the 3 day convention I just attended was called follow the Christ and it covered all kinds of information relating to Jesus Christ life and they talked about how this information can be applied in our lives as individuals.

2. All Jehovah's Witness congregations remain clean. As the bible instruction shows that the congregation should be kept clean and people committing and carrying on in sin should not be tolerated, anyone that is sinning in a serious way and is not willing to show repentance is disfellowshipped and no longer considered a Jehovah's Witness. Those people may repent in the future and become active Witnesses once again but a simple "sorry" is not good enough in many cases. For example, if a member is committing adultery and does not stop then that person will be removed from the congregation. This is done by making an announcement about that person and then everyone knows who that person is. The bible shows us that God does not want his people to be mixing in with anyone called a "brother in the faith" that continues committing sin after learning about what the bible teaches and dedicating himself/herself to God. Those people deal with the elders of the congregation and if they do show honest repentance then from the standpoint of the congregation, everything is forgiven. There are special cases such as a case of a child molester but they are very rare. If anyone like that gets reinstated they will never again be able to have any responsibilities in any congregation. This is a protection so that none of the members are harmed from a person that has shown a very serious flaw. Although the person is forgiven the congregation does not show ignorance toward a serious flaw such as child molestation. Anyone that does commit any sin like that will always have that sin follow him in a way so that others do not get harmed in the future. Members of the congregation will be informed about his past wrongdoing and he will not be allowed to be alone with children or have any responsibilities in the congregation ever again no matter how sorry that person might be about their actions.

Thus, all congregations are kept totally clean and at the same time they are able to show a forgiving attitude toward everyone just the same way that Jehovah God does.

Keeping the congregations clean and also forgiving wrongdoers is a continuous process with the Witnesses. They are always talking about keeping clean and how to keep clean. Before anyone can become a Jehovah's Witness they must show that they understand the very basic things that God requires from his servants. So all Witnesses know before they get baptized what things they should be doing and what things they should not be doing.

The Jehovah's Witnesses are very aware that all humans are flawed right now. No human is perfect and this is why forgiveness is so important. The objective of the Witnesses is to eventually become perfect though. Eventually that is the goal. With God's help, eventually I believe as the bible says, all humans on earth will again become perfect. So even though we must live now with imperfection, it should be the goal of anyone that is following Christ Jesus to eventually become perfect human beings. It is the goal of the Witnesses to help everyone realize how perfection is possible with God. Imperfection is a reality for now but the ultimate goal for all of Christ followers is total 100% perfection. This perfection is not achieved by willingly going against God and continuing down the wrong path in life. Perfection can only become a reality for those that are eagerly seeking perfection with an honest heart.

I myself am very, very far from perfection but I personally will be fighting for it for the rest of my life because I do not desire to be bad anymore. I do not desire to be filled with hate and evil. The Jehovah's Witnesses are the only people that I believe can help me to become a better person. This is just one of the many reasons I know they are the people that the bible speaks about.

*He 8:10-13
10 ??For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,? says Jehovah. ?I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.

11 ??And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: ?Know Jehovah!? For they will all know me, from [the] least one to [the] greatest one of them. 12 For I shall be merciful to their unrighteous deeds, and I shall by no means call their sins to mind anymore.??

13 In his saying ?a new [covenant]? he has made the former one obsolete. Now that which is made obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away.

1 Pe 2:9,10
9 But YOU are ?a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies? of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 For YOU were once not a people, but are now God?s people; YOU were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

Re 7:9,10
9 After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: ?Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.?*


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## CECIL

MentallyIll said:


> ahahahaha yea shamanism is 5hundred thousand years old and earth is 6thousand years old


Shamans have been around since humans walked the earth, however long ago that was.

I also find it entertaining that Christians use carbon dating to prove the bible was around in the BC but outright reject carbon dating when its used to prove dinosaur fossils are more than a few thousand years old.


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## LOSTONE

> but outright reject carbon dating when its used to prove dinosaur fossils are more than a few thousand years old.


True Christians do not do that.

The bible does not teach that the earth is only 6 thousand years old. 
There is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says anything like that.


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## CECIL

Fair enough.


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## LOSTONE

CuredOne That's a good question.

Thanks for sending me the PM. I probably would not have read your question if you wouldn't have sent me a PM also because I am trying to spend less time online these days.

The reason people should be serving Jehovah God is because of Love.

If love is not built up to a point where that is the ultimate motivation then serving Jehovah God in a way pleasing to him will not even be possible.

*1John 4:8
He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. *

When Jesus was asked about what was the greatest commandment of the law, his reply was very simple. It was not that we should love ourselves or love the idea of everlasting life or that we should not murder. It was that we should love Jehovah our God with our whole heart and our whole soul and with our whole mind! That is the greatest commandment. The second commandment that is actually connected with the first is that we should love our neighbor as ourselves.

*Mt 22:36-40
36 ?Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?? 37 He said to him: ??You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.? 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this, ?You must love your neighbor as yourself.? 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.? *

The bible is the key to building up love of God and love of neighbor. If the bible is read and used simply for selfish reasons then I assure you that Jehovah God will not be fooled. Remember Jehovah God does not view us the same way we view people or even the way we view ourselves. He can see directly into our heart and understand our true motivations and intentions.

*1Sa 16:7
But Jehovah said to Samuel: ?Do not look at his appearance and at the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. For not the way man sees [is the way God sees], because mere man sees what appears to the eyes; but as for Jehovah, he sees what the heart is.?*

About the teachings of immortality of the spirit. I realize that many religions teach this, actually almost all religions around the world teach that the spirit is immortal. The bible however does not teach this. Actually it teaches the exact opposite. There are many scriptures I can point out to prove that the bibles teaching is very clear about this.

*Ec 9:10
All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She?ol, the place to which you are going.
*

Notice that King Solomon did not simply say that the wicked were going to Sheol but he said that Sheol is the place where you are going to. This is because every human being that ever lived besides Jesus Christ are all sinners. Also this is because it is clear in the bible that the wages sin pays is death.

*Ro 6:23
For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.*

That is why Jesus Christ died for our sins. If he would not have gave his life up for us then nobody would be able to survive. All of humanity would be lost. This includes all of the bible writers. Everyone, according to God's law we are all deserving of death because of our sin that has been passed down to us from Adam and Eve. Jesus Christ sacrifice is Jehovah's answer to our problem of death.

So everlasting life is a possibility. It was God's original plan for us and it is his purpose for our future. But for now, death is a reality for all of us. There are no immortal humans.

Everlasting life will be possible for people after the war of the great day of Jehovah the almighty.

*Acts 24:15
and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. *

Everlasting life is not simply a birthright. It is a gift that Jehovah God is offering us. Notice that in Acts it says that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous also. This is because Jehovah God desires to save even the unrighteous from death! This does not mean that all humans will enjoy life though. Jesus did warn us that the road leading off into life is a narrow road and few are the ones finding it.

*Mt 7:13,14
13 ?Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. *

Nobody can say for sure about Jehovah's judgments but the bible is the book that Jehovah has provided for us so that we may be able to learn the truth about Jehovah God and to know how we should be living our lives.

If you really care and you really want to know about what the bible teaches then you should read the bible.

Most all of the things that people think are bible teachings are actually in direct conflict with what the bible actually teaches. This is because of the false prophets spoken about by Jesus Christ.

*Mt 24:23-27
23 ?Then if anyone says to YOU, ?Look! Here is the Christ,? or, ?There!? do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ?Look! He is in the wilderness,? do not go out; ?Look! He is in the inner chambers,? do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be.*

Paul also spoke about false apostles at 2 Co 11:13-15
*13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.*

The immortality teaching along with many other teachings and practices of many so called "Christian" religions are actually teachings of false prophets and false ministers of righteousness. Simply put, these false teachings come from servants of Satan the Devil. Read 2 Co 11:13-15 again if you did not see that fact clearly for yourself.

Also read 2Pe 2:1-3
*1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering. *

These false prophets and false teachers have twisted the truth of the bible so much that most people in the world do not realize that common ideas about bible teachings are actually in direct conflict with true bible teachings. A good example of this is the teaching about the immortality of the spirit. Also that people either goto heaven or a literal lively hell or purgatory when they die. This is not a bible teaching. The bible actually teaches that the Planet Earth is where humans belong. The bible does speak about hell and about heaven but it is clear that the Earth is where men belong. It is also clear in the bible that Hell is simply the grave and that the residents there are not even conscious of anything.

*Ec 9:10
All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She?ol, the place to which you are going.*

*Ps 37:29
The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Ps 115:16,17
16 As regards the heavens, to Jehovah the heavens belong,
But the earth he has given to the sons of men.

17 The dead themselves do not praise Jah,
Nor do any going down into silence.

Isaiah 45:18
For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ?I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.

Psalms 37:9-11
9 For evildoers themselves will be cut off,
But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth.

10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.

11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. *

Everlasting life in paradise earth can be a reality for all of us. The choice is really up to us.

The bible does not teach that anyone of us are able to earn everlasting life though. We can not earn everlasting life. Everlasting life is a free gift that Jehovah God is giving to those who are seeking him out and obeying his voice. This gift is only made possible because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

If you want to know more information and you want to better understand the truth about the bible then I suggest that you pray to God and ask him for help. Also read the bible!

If you want to start a free home bible study to learn more about the truth of the bible and to learn about Jehovah God then you can do this by contacting the Jehovah's Witnesses here. https://watch002.securesites.net/contact/submit.htm

The only people I trust anymore for accurate information are Jehovah's Witnesses. So these are the only people I would advise that you talk to about the bible. They are the only people I know of who are teaching the truth about the bible and actually living up to that truth.

If you have any other questions then you can send me another PM and I will be happy to respond to you.

Right now I have to leave here for work so Mahalo.

Take care everyone.


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## LOSTONE

> The war of the great day of Jehovah the almighty?
> 
> When is the war going down? Who does it involve? Is it on earth?


I called it the "great day of Jehovah the almighty" because those are the exact words of the bible.

*Re 16:14
They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.*

That day is called great because that is the day when Jehovah God will war with this world in order to put an end to all wars for all time.

*Psalms 46:9
He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth.
The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces;
The wagons he burns in the fire. *

*
Psalms 37:10,11
10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.

11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. *

The great day of Jehovah the almighty will bring true and everlasting peace to this earth, that is why it is called the "great day".

This war will be a very literal war between this world and Jehovah's Kingdom. When I say "this world" I am speaking of the governments and the rulers of this world we are now living in. 1 John 5:19 points out that Satan the Devil is actually the true ruler of this world right now.

*1 John 5:19
We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.
*
There are many other scriptures that point out this fact. 
The war of the great day of Jehovah the almighty will be the war between Jehovah's Kingdom and between Satan, the demons and all of Satan's followers here on earth. There are many scriptures in the bible that point this out. If I explained in detail then it would take me all day because there is a lot of information to cover on this issue.

Here are a few links where you can read more info about this and find links to read exactly what the bible says about the last war and what other things will take place in the future.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040415/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20031115/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20051201/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/kn37/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20060715/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/20060515/article_01.htm

The bible says that nobody knows exactly when this war will take place.

*Mr 13:32,33
32 ?Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is.*

The bible does give us many clear signs so that we will be able to know when God's war is getting close. Currently according to the bible we are now living in what the bible refers to as the "last days" of this current system or "old world". There is a prophecy in the bible that is tied in with the date of when the word for rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem goes forth. That prophecy leads us to the year of 1914. That year is when Re 12:7 took place and it is considered the beginning of the "last days" by Jehovah's Witnesses. So Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the great day of Jehovah the almighty is very close. Although nobody knows the exact date of when this war will begin. The bible is very clear about that.



> So everlasting life is a possibility? Because if there was no possiblity, quite frankly, I don't understand why one would need to worship the creator. As I have said, love and good acts can be performed by people without faith.


Yes I agree with you that love and good acts can be performed by people without faith. Obeying Jehovah god is vital to life though. He has made provisions for us to be forgiven of our sins but it is a clear bible teaching that Jehovah expects us to one day reach back up to perfection and to obey him completely. The bible clearly says that the wages sin pays is death. So I do not doubt that obeying Jehovah is vital for life. Love and good acts are good and I promote them but they are not a good excuse to disobey Jehovah God. We are all imperfect right now but we should all be striving our best to learn about God and serve him to the best of our ability. Always remembering that God knows our motives.

We should not simply serve God just because he can give us everlasting life. But when we learn about the sacrifices Jehovah has made for us and we learn what good things he has done for us then we should be mostly motivated out of love to serve him and obey him and bring glory to his name.

Although our spirit is not immortal and all humans are dieing right now. Jehovah did originally create humans to live forever here on this earth. He also intends for humans to be able to enjoy everlasting life in the future. I can not say for sure who will be able to enjoy everlasting life and who is going to be left for death. It is not my decision. I know full well that all of us humans now living are actually worthy of death. Whoever Jehovah wishes to apply Jesus sacrifice to is really up to him. I do very strongly believe that the best way to become one of the people whom Jehovah will show mercy to is by studying with Jehovah's Witnesses and eventually becoming a baptized Jehovah's Witness yourself and sticking very close to Jehovah God, never leaving him.

Doing good things and showing love towards others is good. If you also obey the voice of Jehovah God and continue obeying Jehovah God then that is something very great and it will be a blessing for you. Jehovah does not deal totally in black and white, he does notice all the good things that people are doing and as I said before, Jehovah God can see directly into the heart. He is a perfect judge. It is wise though to not let yourself think to much of yourself because of any good acts you may have done in your life. Obedience toward Jehovah God is vital for life! Eventually in the future, anyone who does not obey Jehovah God will be put to death. In the future there will be no allowance for any rebellion against Jehovah at all anymore.

So I suggest that you start learning more about God right now. It is not easy to obey your creator if you do not even know him very well. Reading the bible and taking in accurate information about God is very important. It is impossible to obey God if you do not even know what God is saying to us.



> Also, do those who died before Jesus stand a chance to be given everlasting life, too? I would hate to think the most important people to our civilization who died before Jesus are punished simply for being born at the wrong time.


Yes.

Jesus did make a special covenant with a select few number of people who will actually be able to go into heaven.

*Re 14:1
And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.*

*Re 7:4
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel: *

Those 144,000 are all people who lived after Jesus death because Jesus death was the beginning of this new covenant.

Everyone else who lived before Jesus will have the hope of everlasting life on paradise earth though. This is made clear by the fact that all former bible writers expressed the hope of everlasting life. They all knew they would be brought back to life if they remained loyal to Jehovah God. Some of them did not fully understand what was going to take place with the sacrifice of Jesus but they did realize that Jehovah planned to bring them back to life and grant them everlasting life on paradise earth.

This is why Job prayed to God to remember him while he was in Sheol.
*
Job 14:13
O that in She?ol you would conceal me,
That you would keep me secret until your anger turns back,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me! *

Notice what Job said about a tree, he made this connection because of the ability Jehovah has to bring people back to life who have died.

*Job 14:7
For there exists hope for even a tree.
If it gets cut down, it will even sprout again,
And its own twig will not cease to be. *

So even before the time of Jesus, it was well known amongst God's people that Jehovah has the ability to bring the dead back to life again. 
They just did not fully understand how Jehovah was going to do this since we are all sinners.



> Which version of the bible do Jehovah Witnesses follow? Do they follow both the old testament and new testament?


Yes. 
They actually do not even like to call them the old and new testament. They prefer to call them the Greek and Hebrew scriptures. They are both from the same God and they are both vital in being able to fully understand the truth about Jehovah God. There are many different translations of the bible but they all use the same base for translation. So the errors in any one translation are easy to spot and even admitted by the bible translation sometimes. For example, most copies of the King James version will admit in the beginning that they have removed the name of Jehovah out of the bible almost 7,000 times. They only leave in that name in 4 locations. All the other spots where God's name should be, they simply replace God's name with the title "LORD" in all caps.

The translation that the Jehovah's Witnesses usually use is called the New World Translation. Although Jehovah's Witnesses will read from the King James or other translations at times if it is more pleasing for a bible student to read from a translation that they are more used to.



> Also, Jehovah's Witnesses believe in the existence of a devil and pure evil?


Yes Satan the devil is talked about throughout the bible. 
According to the bible Satan was the original lier and the original rebel against Jehovah God. Once a powerful angel and called beautiful by God, he is now likened to a lion looking for a pray.

*1Pe 5:8
Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone].*

This adversary of God's people is also the current ruler of this world.

A point brought out in Luke 4:5-8
*5 So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6 and the Devil said to him: ?I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. 7 You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.? 8 In reply Jesus said to him: ?It is written, ?It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.?? *

So yes the Devil is real and extremely powerful.



> Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe in science: theory of electromagnetism, theory of gravity, theory of evolution and the theory of big bang? etc


Yes, most Jehovah's Witnesses are pretty intelligent. Actually there are Jehovah's Witnesses who are scientist themselves. One of them who I know is working for NASA right now.

Jehovah's Witnesses do understand the difference in Facts and theory though. The word "Science" does not mean the same thing as the word "Fact". That is something to keep in mind when talking about Science.



> If I recall, is it true that Jehovah's Witnesses believe that in the event of everlasting life, they inherit the earth afterwards? Is that the idea? Earth instead of "heaven" concept? What about when natural resources are expired? What about when the sun burns out? That won't last indefinitely!


It's not just a concept, it is a very clear bible teaching that humans will be living on earth forever.

*Psalms 37:29
The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it. *

I could quote many other scriptures that say the same thing but I don't see the need for that. Psalms 37:29 is a very clear scripture that can not be twisted.

The question about resources and the sun burning out is pointless if you believe in God. Those are not issues that we need to worry about. Just the same as we do not need to worry about how we were created or about how the miracle of birth still takes place here on earth each day. Jehovah's power is what formed the earth in the first place. Jehovah's power is what formed the sun. It is a simple issue for Jehovah God to provide for us the things we are needing. The only thing Jehovah will not do for us is to take away our free will and make our choices for us. Keeping the sun burning bright for an eternity is not a very hard task for the creator of the sun to accomplish if that is his desire.

*Isaiah 40:28
Have you not come to know or have you not heard? Jehovah, the Creator of the extremities of the earth, is a God to time indefinite. He does not tire out or grow weary. There is no searching out of his understanding. *

*Job 38:1-6
1 And Jehovah proceeded to answer Job out of the windstorm and say:

2 ?Who is this that is obscuring counsel
By words without knowledge?

3 Gird up your loins, please, like an able-bodied man,
And let me question you, and you inform me.

4 Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth?
Tell [me], if you do know understanding.

5 Who set its measurements, in case you know,
Or who stretched out upon it the measuring line?

6 Into what have its socket pedestals been sunk down,
Or who laid its cornerstone, *

33-38
*33 Have you come to know the statutes of the heavens,
Or could you put its authority in the earth?

34 Can you raise your voice even to the cloud,
So that a heaving mass of water itself may cover you?

35 Can you send forth lightnings that they may go
And say to you, ?Here we are!??

36 Who put wisdom in the cloud layers,
Or who gave understanding to the sky phenomenon?

37 Who can exactly number the clouds in wisdom,
Or the water jars of heaven?who can tip [them] over,

38 When the dust pours out as into a molten mass,
And the clods of earth themselves get stuck together? *

*Job 40:1,2
1 And Jehovah proceeded to answer Job and say:

2 ?Should there be any contending of a faultfinder with the Almighty?
Let the reprover of God himself answer it.? *

*Genesis 18:14
Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?*

Notice what God is saying here in Isaiah chapter 40 about the stars.

*Isaiah 40:25,26
25 ?But to whom can YOU people liken me so that I should be made his equal?? says the Holy One. 26 ?Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing. *

Jehovah is the one who has created this universe. This is not just a teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. This is a fact. 
Also not only has Jehovah created the entire universe but he also knows each star in the universe by name!

*Genesis 18:14
Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?*

Clearly the answer to the question posed in Genesis 18:14 is that nothing is to extraordinary for Jehovah God. We need not worry about the sun blowing up and destroying the earth. If Jehovah says that the earth will be inhabited by humans for an eternity then that is what will take place. I am sure there is much that we do not know right now that we will learn in the future. All that matters right now though is that Jehovah has said over and over and he has had it written in scriptures many times that the earth was created for mankind and that mankind will reside forever upon the earth. The bible is extremely clear about this.

So for anyone who is obeying the voice of Jehovah God, eternal life living in paradise earth will be a reality. It is not simply a hope but it is a fact. Jehovah can not lie. He can not lie because every word that Jehovah speaks is a word of power and it does not even return to him without results.

*Isaiah 55:11
so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.*

So paradise earth is already a reality in the mind of all Jehovah's Witnesses.


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## Guest




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## Pollyanna 3098

*Bible for sale*

No longer needed as LOSTONE knows everything. :mrgreen: :twisted:


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## Guest

*Buys it for some one who "cares"....*

LOSTONE is the holy one! *Bows*... heh.


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