# Anyone try Ketamine infusion therapy?



## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

My psychiatrist is proposing it as an option. I may have depression (had it before I developed 'blank mind' DP) but I'm not sure if it would touch the blank mind or make me worse. Anyone?


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

Very interesting. PM Hedgehog Fuzz, i swear he told me someone took Ketamine + antidepressants with a blank mind, no harm asking him, just say I sent you. Nice dude.

I don't ever talk about it here, but if I was going to do 'illegal' gone legal drugs, it would be the only one. I know it can work for depression and I don't want to say too much giving people ideas.

My main question is, do you have any visual things, not talking DR: things shifting, light crazy bright, colours looking different, flickers, after images, motion dragging? basically I am asking do you have any signs of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder#Symptoms

If so Ketamine is not a good idea. (You might think WTF did this come from, but DP/DR comes with HPPD and a lot of people don't realise they even have it)


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

I talk with Hedgehog Fuzz fairly often on FB, I'll ask him - thanks.

HPPD usually comes from drugs, although some symptoms may overlap with DR. I do have the occasional lights looking very bright, or things (environment) changing in color and hue. This also happens sometimes based on my mood and thinking. I don't have the other symptoms you've mentioned from HPPD.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

The bad news is that Ketamine can cause temporarily depersonalization, including emotional numbness and the blank mind. However the antidepressant effect, which also seems to include an anti-anhedonic effect, can survive for one week or even longer. How it affects a "natural" syndrome like yours that followed depression is unknown. One might speculate that it may induce the same symptoms by a different mechanism, but help for the same ones if they are caused by another. If you tried it, the result would certainly be of interest.

Concerning HPPD and Ketamine: I haven't read all the literature about HPPD, but some papers mention it. It seems to make up only s small number of such a cases. The same seems to be true for depersonalization disorder, where most drug-induced cases are attributed to Cannabis and the least to Ketamine. However this might be partly due to selection effects, because Cannabis is more established than other drugs and so people are more likely to abuse it than Ketamine.


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

Yeah HPPD is from drugs by the sounds of it this is not a concern at all. 
I am not pointing out a chance of getting it from ketamine, I haven't read it causing it and add the fact it's pure, medical and micro dosed nothing to worry about. What I was just mentioning is if you already have it, ketamine by all accounts can make it worse. Not relevant to you.


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

I still don't know how Ketamine would do anything for the blank mind/DP, however, so I'm not even sure it's worth trying. I haven't found any reports where Ketamine reversed blank mind/DP.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> I still don't know how Ketamine would do anything for the blank mind/DP, however, so I'm not even sure it's worth trying. I haven't found any reports where Ketamine reversed blank mind/DP.


Just like using NSI-189 against the blank mind it's basically unexplored territory. You would be the first who tries it out and reports the results in a forum.


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## MichaelTheAnhedonic (Aug 31, 2016)

I was using NSI against blank mind and I think it helped a little. Not sure though, I was taking it too short, 25 days. Maybe I will try one more time.


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

MichaelTheAnhedonic said:


> I was using NSI against blank mind and I think it helped a little. Not sure though, I was taking it too short, 25 days. Maybe I will try one more time.


What dosage?


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## MichaelTheAnhedonic (Aug 31, 2016)

~20mg


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## Surfer Rosa (Nov 27, 2015)

People I've met who were willing to invest in Ketamine therapy, a very expensive treatment, were struggling severely with their depression. Maybe they just didn't have a tolerance for such a low mood - they had turned to Heroin, street Ketamine and other drugs for relief. They said the Ketamine therapy was easy to undergo, and that it helped them a lot. It is very expensive, though. I would try it for depersonalization, since anxiety, depression and trauma all seem very linked in certain individuals.


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

MichaelTheAnhedonic said:


> ~20mg


Perhaps that dosage was too small? I think I will go up to 40mg in a week or so.


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

This thread is so tricky, I am stuck between wanting to explore this and worrying that people with less knowledge, bad access, wrong dose, it can be harmful, but I am honestly trying to add value to your question, if this is deemed too much for this forum someone PM me, although we do talk about some hardcore treatments and this one is legal and that's what you and I talking about. Medical infusion therapy.

Honestly if I got offered it, i'd go for it.

Ketamine gave me relief from depression years of depression at times for months on end, like no other drug has (pre DP).

Ketamine in this sense is very different than MDMA, Cocaine etc, as the medical world has found out.

It did not surprise me in the slightest when Ketamine came out as possible medication. Though not on my radar or plans at all currently as I haven't scratched the surface, i'd be open if I felt it was my next option.

Not totally uncharted, found where I read this curing blank mind and I quote from thread on blank mind:

"Yep. this is a deep depression.

I noticed it all came back after a 5 day ketamine session. Then maintained treatment with an SSRI + Nortriptyline.

You should probably start with therapy, along with medications. If that doesn't do it, seek a psychiatrist that specialises in treatment resistant cases."

http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/91600-anyone-recover-from-blank-mindno-inner-monlogue/

(second comment down, what worked for him, to me makes total sense. The only time I got my inner monologue back was when my depression was lifted and felt a rush of emotions. I am very much of the theory a blank mind is a deep depression. Forget the rest of the comments, it's mainly DP argument and blacklash because Ketamine is still deemed illegal in most places and it's hard for people to accept that drugs can be medication, e.g. Opioids can be pain relief or drugs, depending how you use them)


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

Also please keep us up to date with NSI-189. Interests us all in a big way! Thanks dreamedm


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

CK1 said:


> Not totally uncharted, found where I read this curing blank mind and I quote from thread on blank mind:
> 
> "Yep. this is a deep depression.
> 
> ...


I'm the author of that thread, and the response above is jaiho's, whom I correspond with sometimes on Skype. I think his 'bank mind' may be different, however, as I believe he told me it came on gradually. Mine was sudden - a reaction to very strong negative thoughts and emotions (mostly about my life). Also, from what I recall, jaiho told me he never felt suicidal, whereas pretty much everyone with the DP blank mind says it makes them feel suicidal. Moreover, not everyone who developed 'blank mind' DP was previously depressed. It happened to some as a result of a panic attack, smoking weed, or doing some other drug(s). Jaiho, however, maintains that the stress response - whether or not the person was previously depressed - still produces a "deep depression," even if the blank mind was induced by a panic attack or weed. I find this rather dubious.

I'm also not sure how Ketamine therapy can help if the drug itself can produce DP and blank mind (even if termporarily). So I wonder how it would be possible for it to actually reverse this.



CK1 said:


> Also please keep us up to date with NSI-189. Interests us all in a big way! Thanks dreamedm


I will.


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

You are? you know it well then.

I don't see the difference between sudden and gradually that you do. To me it's how fast your brain stopped the chatter, i've read various blank minds and it's very 50/50 from what i see between sudden and gradual. I get that you see them as differences, but I personally believe the mechanism is very similar. The word depression/trauma/panic attack/anxiety can all be changed for each but the same thing kicks in and stops the thoughts to self self preservate. Me and Hedgehog for instance, mine seemed gradual, his seemed instant, same factor seems to be thoughts however, we were both dealing with thoughts our brain had enough of.

I don't think me and you view this from the same angle, but that's what discussions are for you know. Maybe we won't agree.

Ketamine can sure cause DP, i've felt DP on it but not like real DP just out of body kinda feeling. It's not that you are trying to get the drug to fix though, you are trying to get it to open enough good chemicals/signals whatever, to boost the brain into letting them thoughts in. I don't think it's a magically fix for all DP symptoms, but with this one symptom at a time is sometimes the only thing you can do..

I've spent 2 years reading blank mind stories and experienced what I did, it seems the Void/Depression is something that happens after the mind goes blank, as said people on this forum ADHD drugs, that guy Ketamine, Mirtazapine for me, Lamotrigine, it all clears/boosts it to open again.

Ketamine would simply clear the depression to make a chance for that part of the brain to relay it's inner monologue, if it worked out.

I think getting hung up on your blank mind is different than other blank minds is something we do when we think no one else could have this the way I do as it feels so unique, i get that. But I know peoples depression has happened in a day, mine happened over years (pre DP talk) or I know people who never had anxiety, went out one day and got it over night... it's still the same thing.. all means disagree by the way, these are thoughts


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## dreamedm (Feb 1, 2015)

You may be right in that the 'blank mind' can happen sudden or gradually. My question to you is - when your mind actually did go 'blank/silent' did you suddenly feel more/completely disconnected from your 'self' and others (loved ones, etc.) and the feelings of 'nothingness/void?' Before my mind went blank I still felt somewhat "connected" to my father, but after my mind went blank, it's like he was a total stranger - complete disconnection from others, no feelings of love or empathy, no sense of self, no time perception, and a dreadful sense of the 'void'. Is that how it happened with your blank mind, as well? This would clear up any confusion on whether the aftereffects of gradual vs. sudden blank mind are different or are indeed, the same.



CK1 said:


> It's not that you are trying to get the drug to fix though, you are trying to get it to open enough good chemicals/signals whatever, to boost the brain into letting them thoughts in.


That would, indeed, be fixing the blank mind, however, and I would assume the accompanying symptoms, as well (flatness, complete disconnection, no sense of self, etc.).


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

Yes, most defiantly, I feel like I am looking in front of my eyes. You might know the feeling. To me it's because I am no longer hearing and feeling in my head, I feel more an observer, as I only have thoughts that I create. If I look at a wall and don't think, nothing comes to mind. I have to think 'Oh it's white' or 'maybe I should make dinner my stomach is hungry' before you'd just do it, your brain would do the talking....

it's depressing even thinking about this.

The more blank I came, until nothing, the more I felt like I was not connected to anything because everything feels like I have to continuously do it, so the sense of me, the guy who just does things and lives in the moment can't exist.

I think it makes perfect sense that this shift causes a disconnect. Your brain is blank, how can it connect when your brain isn't telling you about anything. A simple test is to pick up a pen, how does it feel? if it feels like a piece of plastic, you've lost the connection. I read that somewhere and it's true, before a pen was not a piece of plastic tube, it was a pen...

For instance I love driving, I use to drive a couple of hours say round [Redacted] to get to somewhere, i'd have the music on and auto pilot would get me there, i'd be living in my head (in a good way). This changed and I got to the point of totally blank, I went from living in that moment, being part of the music I was listening to, not having to think about driving to thinking 'turn left' is that 'a cyclist up ahead', all these automatic things as a driver i never had to process as my inner monologue did it.

It's late, i tried to explain a few different ways. I think in short, yes, before I was blank, I was spaced out and anxious, now I am a void and disconnected. I know this to be true as 7 months into DP without a blank mind I remember coming back to my parents and seeing my cat who is 17 and being chuffed she was still alive and that... it's now 13months later, blank mind and my cats on my bed, petting her feels like petting a carpet...

Which suggests to me, the anxiety and spaced out worry built to the point my brain said, I need a break


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

I think it's as simple as your inner monologue is your inner self, remove that and you have a disconnection. You have no contiguousness. I have a friend with DP who I've known all my life, he does not have the blank mind and his DP is way different, he feels spaced out, but gets joy and feels in the moment way more than I do, I put it down to the fact he says his inner monologue is more now rather than less (anxiety) so he is very in the moment over analysing things, on high alert. We are the opposite, we are numbed out to the point of being removed from the moment and in a void. I still stick to the depression being a big part of this. It's known to shut down areas of the brain at points. As i've mentioned my only break through came when I felt emotions running on Mirtazapine, as the emotions came up, so did the blank mind, no coincidence. I also think depression is treatment resistant, what tablet cures one persons depression DP or not, is not the same or we wouldn't have so many AD's and other medications for the same thing and you can totally be happy and have depression. I was happy for 2 years Pre DP but all my friends tell me now that I was very depressed. Paradox but totally true

EDIT: example zoloft made me happy but it never helped my depression just felt like happy chemicals and a fake smile


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## lauras (May 13, 2012)

Bumping this to see if anyone has tried it since it's been a couple of months now, I hope you guys are feeling better even if you chose to go another route.

My therapist recommended this recently and I'm close to setting up an appointment to find out more. He said I can still try antidepressants instead if I want (I've never been on medication before), but thought this would be a good option for me since it's really been helping one of his other patients process their trauma.


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## willbarwa (Aug 26, 2017)

CK1 said:


> Very interesting. PM Hedgehog Fuzz, i swear he told me someone took Ketamine + antidepressants with a blank mind, no harm asking him, just say I sent you. Nice dude.
> 
> I don't ever talk about it here, but if I was going to do 'illegal' gone legal drugs, it would be the only one. I know it can work for depression and I don't want to say too much giving people ideas.
> 
> ...


Not so sure about that. I dont have any HPPD. My vision is clear minus some floaters I have but I've had these same little floaters since I was 15.


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## 106473 (Feb 7, 2017)

I was tired. To clear the confusion, I shall rephrase this.

Some people have HPPD and just think it's DP/DR, so that lot i'd say steer clear.

At the time of writing this I did not know the NHS provide this privately in England. I've came here to see if anyone has done it?

It's like £600 for 3 sessions or you know.. £20 if you know a vet and i'm not kidding.. dunno where the NHS have came up with that crazy figure


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