# New ideas/theories on depersonalization



## dragnink (Jan 8, 2008)

As any of us who have dealt with this know, something simply isn't right with us to give us the sensations we experience. I saw a huge improvement after cleaning up my diet, detoxing, doing liver cleanses but in this whole process discovered a link in the chain that I think all of us might be having issues with - being immuno compromised for long periods of time and the effects that has on our body, especially our sinuses. Almost all disease is caused by blockage of some sort in our bodies. DP is definitely a head disease or disorder. I didn't realize throughout this experience how clogged up I really was until I started trying to blow my nose and feeling rattling sensations way back in my sinuses almost towards the middle of my head. I also found out that my eustachian tubes have been blocked up too. Since doing nasal irrigating and cutting out dairy, I can now breathe easily through my nose when I haven't been able to do that in years. As of right now, I have no depersonalization at all.. only some remaining feelings of fogginess which get better with the more mucus I get out.

Considering so many people have allergies and sinus infections, maybe it's possible that there's a part of our sinuses that can more easily get clogged up and possibly irritated by foreign particles (including marijuana residue)? And maybe if that part of our sinuses gets an infection, it swells up putting pressure on our brain to the point we have the symptoms of dp that we experience? Many people suffer from chronic sinusitis that lasts for years. It might be possible that many of us have issues we haven't addressed with our sinuses.

I didn't only experience depersonalization and derealization during this whole drawn out episode. I had memory loss, cognitive problems, feelings of being spacey, personality changes, being totally unsure of myself.. etc etc. The sphenoid part of our sinuses is way back far into our heads. Any infection or inflammation on this area can put pressure on the optic nerve, possibly giving us perceptual abnormalities we experience with DP. The swelling can also put pressure on our brain and possibly even cause any infection we might have to spread into our brain.

My uncle and I both "caught" dp around the same time last year. He had felt foggy and not with it for about 6-8 months before it got real bad, and I hadn't felt right for the past couple of years. DP might just be a snapping point we reach when our body can no longer deal with the load on our immune systems and sends a signal to our brain that we're in some kind of physical trauma.

I really don't believe that this is a psychological problem at all. I literally thought I was going crazy or becoming a schizophrenic, and the ways I was behaving and feeling probably on the outside looked like mental illness. I think a lot of us have the chance to get rid of this thing if we address the health of every part of our bodies we have the power to change, and for that we don't have to rely on doctors or conventional "medicine".


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## flipwilson (Aug 19, 2006)

I'm totally down with reading ideas like this. The longer i have Dp and the more sensations i experience, and the more i research and read i can't just label this a "mental illness". The complexity of our systems and the many symptoms experienced no longer jive with just havng emotional problems. So many people that i know or read about with DP get neurological checkups that come back perfect and no abnormalities are detected, yet they are still messed up. The more we open up to ideas like this and stop popping the first pill some asshole shrink throws at us, the quicker we'll find the answer or answers to this mess.


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## i_gami (Feb 13, 2008)

I have a theory that it is the Antichrist messing around. Whether you consider yourself religious or not. Nobody can prove that it is physical at all :twisted:.


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## clairethecat (Aug 7, 2008)

That's one of the most intelligent things I've heard in awhile.
I'm considering having a doctor check out my sinuses anyway, I have no cold but somehow I have a permanent post nasal drip thingo and I wake up all blocked in the mornings.


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## Mark (Jul 21, 2008)

Wow, my wife was just telling me about a Dr who had success with schizophrenics by diet, cleansing and stuff like that.
Who knows .I am open to try anything.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2008)

If you've blocked Eustachian tubes you can get something called "Glue ear" read about it here:



> Glue earIntroduction
> 
> Glue ear is a condition which causes fluid to build up in the middle ear. It is one of the most common causes of impaired hearing in young children. It is also known as secretory otitis media, otitis media with effusion, or serous otitis media.
> 
> ...


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## AntiSocial (Jul 12, 2008)

Emulated Puppet}eer said:


> If you've blocked Eustachian tubes you can get something called "Glue ear" read about it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


are those tubes in the nose? cause if so i think i might have that


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2008)

are those tubes in the nose? cause if so i think i might have that[/quote]

Yes:


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## AntiSocial (Jul 12, 2008)

why is there an animal in the diagram?


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## therese cowen (Oct 2, 2007)

Hi,
That is very interesting. I have been wondering about sinus troubles also, wondering if it could be related. I know I have a blockage in my right ear because when I hold my nose and blow hard my left ear pops, but my right doesn't. I also (and this is going to sound gross) blow some pretty yuckky blobs of mucus from my nose sometimes, which I just put down to allergies.
How do you do a nasal irrigation, and how would you investigate sinus problems?


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## dragnink (Jan 8, 2008)

Well the strange thing about all of this is, during my slow transition out of it.. I started having clicking noises in my ears when I'd swallow or yawn. My perception of everything around me changed from day to day, week to week as I slowly phased back into my own senses again. This is when I realized how stuffed up my head/sinuses/ears had gotten throughout all of the months of DP that I had. As I addressed the sinus issue, I noticed that seemed to speed things up a bit and I started feeling much more connected.

Right now, the depersonalization and derealization is all but gone. I don't feel 100% yet, and have actually gotten fooled into thinking I was a few times only to have some of it flare slightly, but I'm way better off now... I'd describe the feelings I experience now as just having stepped off a cruise ship that I'd been on for a week. At my worst times (this lasted for about 5-6 months), I felt detached from myself and everything around me and locked in some kind of mental prison from the time I woke up to the time I went to bed. I even had times when I woke up in the morning and felt like everything from the previous week was erased, like I was waking up from hibernating through winter or something..

When I started noticing the ear/nose connection, what I did was bought some stuff called "sinus buster". The guy who invented it always had headaches, and found that during police training a few times the pepper spray all cadets have to receive actually relieved his headaches. I started using it about 2 times a day, 2 or 3 inhales of it up each nostril, then blowing my nose like crazy afterwards. A few weeks worth of getting the gunk out, and I felt way better. That's when I started using a neti pot.. you can find them on ebay or most health related stores. What you do is mix up a solution of water and sea salt along with some 3% or diluted food-grade hydrogen peroxide, or just the water and sea salt. You tilt your head, pour the contents of the pot in one nostril, and all the stuff comes out of the other nostril. You do both of them. It also helps get rid of bacteria that's in your nose.

I definitely think the sinuses have something to do with this, a viral or bacterial infection can get way back in there, stop up your plumbing, cause things to get inflamed.. and that's when your vision and your mind starts having problems since everything is so close to the sinuses.

Take a look at this diagram








The sphenoid area is near the ears and brain and the optic nerves that goes to the eyes. Some of the symptoms of people who have infections and inflammation of this area of the sinuses have sensory
problems (visual/perceptual disturbance). Since the sinuses connect to the ear canal as well, this is what leads me to think all of this stuff is inter-related and contributing to the symptoms we all have.

Thus, depersonalization is to my knowledge not so much a psychological problem as it is a physiological one. Infections of the sphenoid are mostly related to fungi/bad bacteria, which could also be tied to a major imbalance of the intestinal flora/good bacteria in our systems.


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## Guest (Aug 18, 2008)

Hello dragnink.
I'm glad you brought this up. I remember the days before dp hit I came down with some sort of throat infection with pain in the back of my head. Also my right ear was terribly numb with earwax and I constantly heard music repeated in my head. I also noticed that everytime water got in my ear I could feel it travel yo the back of my eye which caused a sensation I can't explain.
My most recent symptoms are a clicking and crackling noise in the back of my head everytime I turn it. I always told the doctors that I feel like something is inflammed in my central nervous system and head and feelings of fluid in my brain. The only thing they found was a tremendous amount of wax buildup in my right ear and a deviated septum.
I also have constant sleep paralysis, sleep apnea, and general problems in my sleep. Sometimes I awaken and find myself disorientated and confused. Could there be a connection of your theory and what I'm experiencing? Also does the ear canal lead to the brain, say if you had a punctured eardrum can fluid seep into your brain.
My wife told me a story I found hard to believe. She said a friend of hers developed a brain infection and wasn't aware of it until one day after drinking coca cola she noticed the soda was leaking out her ears, and was subsequently diagnosed by her doctors.
Also my perception problems seem to focus inward as well as outward. What I mean is that I actually feel like I'm not here and don't exist more than my eyes seeing things foggy or standing behind a plastic shield. I'ts more a psychological sensation than physical. Could this be related?


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## dragnink (Jan 8, 2008)

Hey DP Dream. Funny that you mentioned a lot of weirdness... a year before I went into my DP, I started having sleep paralysis a lot along with insomnia. I also was dealing with social anxiety, feelings of insecurity and a bunch of emotional and personality problems I never had before. I'd wake up in the morning feeling totally confused and out of it.. it would take everything just to get my day started. Before this even... the start of my problems seemed to be triggered by a really intense bout of stress and bad lifestyle for 8 months.. I hardly drank water all that time, I got drunk every night, I was smoking pot and eating McDonald's almost every day, up all night and sleeping all day.. + my life was hell dealing with my girlfriend at the time. What was going on in your life before you started having DP? Were you ill even before you came down with it, or dealing with lots of stress? In my case I think my immune system just completely bottomed out and things got turned upside down, ever since then it's been a battle to get my health back.

Here's the symptoms listed for sinusitus depending on which area of the sinuses is affected:

*Sinus Infection Symptoms*

Signs and symptoms of sinus infections depend upon which sinuses are affected and whether the sinus infection is acute or chronic.

Acute sinusitis:

* *Ethmoid sinusitis* (behind the eyes)

o Nasal congestion with discharge or postnasal drip (mucus drips down the throat behind the nose)

o Pain or pressure around the inner corner of the eye or down one side of the nose

o Headache in the temple or surrounding the eye

o Pain or pressure symptoms worse when coughing, straining, or lying on the back and better when the head is upright

* *Maxillary sinusitis* (behind the cheek bones)

o Pain across the cheekbone, under or around the eye, or around the upper teeth

o Pain or pressure on one side or both

o Tender, red, or swollen cheekbone

o Pain and pressure symptoms worse with the head upright and better by reclining

o Nasal discharge or postnasal drip

o Fever common

* *Frontal sinusitis* (behind forehead, one or both sides)

o Severe headaches in the forehead

o Fever common

o Pain worse when reclining and better with the head upright

o Nasal discharge or postnasal drip

* *Sphenoid sinusitis* (behind the eyes)

o Deep headache with pain behind and on top of the head, across the forehead, and behind the eye

o Fever common

o Pain worse when lying on the back or bending forward

o Double vision or vision disturbances if pressure extends into the brain

o Nasal discharge or postnasal drip

Chronic sinusitis:

* Ethmoid sinusitis

o Chronic nasal discharge, obstruction, and low-grade discomfort across the bridge of the nose

o Pain worse in the late morning or when wearing glasses

o Chronic sore throat and bad breath

o Usually recurs in other sinuses

* Maxillary sinusitis

o Discomfort or pressure below the eye

o Chronic toothache
o Pain possibly worse with colds, flu, or allergies

o Increased discomfort throughout the day with increased cough at night

* Frontal sinusitis

o Persistent, low-grade headache in the forehead

o History of trauma or damage to the sinus area

* Sphenoid sinusitis

o Low-grade general headache common

Of particular note is the sphenoid... I'd say most of us that have DP or have experienced it are having mostly a visual problem. This would make sense since inflamed sinuses can put pressure on the nerves connecting to your eyes. Sinus infections even if unchecked can alter your perception, change your personality etc if there's pressure build-up or if the infection has spread. The same article I posted the symptoms from says "If a person experiences mild personality changes, headache, altered consciousness, visual problems, or seizures, infection may have spread to the brain."

Maybe all of us were dealing with low-grade sinus infections, and for some smoking pot or lifestyle choices put them over the brink. It's hard to say. I just know that in my own experience, it's my sinuses and my ears that I feel gave me the most problems. While I've done nasal irrigation, blowing my nose afterwards when I was really in the thick of it made me have really loud crackling in my ears. The sinuses, throat and ears are all interconnected. I think it's possible if we have a bad enough infection for the affected areas of the brain to come into play as well.

Try a neti pot out, it's really good. I'd say it was one of the things that put me over the top to get most of my perception back to normal.. that and patience. Use it in the morning and before bed for 3 weeks and see if it makes any difference. I'll be checking back here.. I wish people would look at this more of a health problem than anything. I was perfectly normal before I messed up my system with my lifestyle choices.

The last line in your post also describes perfectly the feeling of DP.. this is exactly the same feeling I had, as if I didn't exist. It was as much inward as it was that around me. I looked in the mirror and I was looking back at a stranger.. I looked down at my hand and it didn't feel connected to me. I hope I never go back to that again.. I really thought I was losing it.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2008)

clairethecat said:


> That's one of the most intelligent things I've heard in awhile.


Blimey you must hang about with stupid people.........meowww :evil: ,im bored...lets cat fight  ...i just checked out facebook for the first time I couldnt find your cause........facebook is the biggest load of boring shit ive seen on the net thus far...apart from here at the mo..where the fuzz is everybody.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Blimey you must hang about with stupid people.........meowww :evil: ,im bored...lets cat fight


No please don't fight... that's so so bad... at lease allow me to watch over and make sure you don't get outta hand while I get off on the fun


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2008)

oh please.....its my fun,not yours  less you wanna cat fight wimmi me daz? grrrr


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2008)

*Sucks index finger*... It be an honour. Meow


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2008)

This is interesting and has been brought up before, that this is some sort of vestibular (inner ear) disorder. But I just don't think it flies.

I have allergies, I also had to have sinus surgery and my tonsils removed when I was about 33? Forgot now. My symptoms are very much under control and there has never been a change in my DP/DR.

1. Having allergies and taking antihistamines/antibiotics can make you feel "foggy" I guess, but IMHO this is NOT DP/DR.
2. Many people don't have ear symptoms and HAVE DP/DR. Sorry, edit.  Also, I think quite a few people have allergies and sinus stuff anyway.

To the best of my knowledge, no study has linked sinus problems to DP/DR. This is most likely something going on with a perceptual problem in the brain. It's most likely connected to anxiety

3. All of us, or many of us, seem to be overly "self-aware" and obsess over all sorts of symptoms. I have been a hypochondriac on and off my whole life. BUT, I have also had many real illnesses as well as problems that seem "larger than life."

Just my two cents.

I urge people to go to Google Scholar (it is one of a million extra searches, and at one point I think it was in the Link section here.) Plug in depersonalization, or depersonalization disorder in Google SCHOLAR, not just Google, and you will find endless articles on DP. I might plug one in re: sinus' and DP, but I'd say that is low on current DP research.

Take Care,
D


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## i_gami (Feb 13, 2008)

Another theory of mine is that someone is strongly in love with you. Somebody you don't know the name of, but that have seen you on occasion. DP/DR is involuntary ego-loss. When you are off of your body, you are vulnerable to different forces: one may be "the lover" :? .


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## sjkdfjsdlf (Apr 8, 2008)

This thread is amazing.. as, I was just thinking this exact thing.

I got my MRI/complete physical (taken about 1 month after my first episode) results back and all of them were great, except:

an *Eosinophils* level which was out of range, along with Mild Sinusitis in *Ethnoid* & *Sphenoid* sections.

HM! Sinusitis.. I've never been very allergic to much except when I moved into my loft apartment of a very old building. It had been damaged in a hurricane, though the roof was replaced.
Anyway, I'm just curious of which way it's best to treat sinusitis. I really hope it's not an infection that's moved to my brain, but something I can treat asap. My DP (or lack thereof) flared up when I started taking anti-fungals! Die-off? Possibly.. I'm really hoping to get all of this stuff out of my system. If you haven't had your blood count/brain tested I highly suggest it.


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## NorrinRadd (Oct 16, 2007)

DpDream said:


> Hello dragnink.
> I'm glad you brought this up. I remember the days before dp hit I came down with some sort of throat infection with pain in the back of my head. Also my right ear was terribly numb with earwax and I constantly heard music repeated in my head. I also noticed that everytime water got in my ear I could feel it travel yo the back of my eye which caused a sensation I can't explain.
> My most recent symptoms are a clicking and crackling noise in the back of my head everytime I turn it.


I have that. But I have a "good" reason: Degenerated disks and arthritic spurs in my neck.



> I always told the doctors that I feel like something is inflammed in my central nervous system and head and feelings of fluid in my brain. The only thing they found was a tremendous amount of wax buildup in my right ear and a deviated septum.
> I also have constant sleep paralysis, sleep apnea, and general problems in my sleep. Sometimes I awaken and find myself disorientated and confused.


I get that. Used to love sleeping. Felt good to sleep, felt good to wake up refreshed. Lately, I'm almost afraid to sleep because the tendency to "weird out" is greatest when I'm going from awake to asleep or from asleep to awake.



> Could there be a connection of your theory and what I'm experiencing? Also does the ear canal lead to the brain, say if you had a punctured eardrum can fluid seep into your brain.
> My wife told me a story I found hard to believe. She said a friend of hers developed a brain infection and wasn't aware of it until one day after drinking coca cola she noticed the soda was leaking out her ears, and was subsequently diagnosed by her doctors.
> Also my perception problems seem to focus inward as well as outward. What I mean is that I actually feel like I'm not here and don't exist more than my eyes seeing things foggy or standing behind a plastic shield. I'ts more a psychological sensation than physical. Could this be related?


I don't feel like I "don't" exist, but one of the worst feelings is that I "won't" exist -- that I'm part of a dream, and will vanish when the dream ends.


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## sjkdfjsdlf (Apr 8, 2008)

dragnink said:


> My uncle and I both "caught" dp around the same time last year.


This may be a big clue... This is a long shot, so not to sound extreme but do you think it could have possibly been any environmental reasons, like mold in your house, carbon monoxide leak or anything?


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