# dp/dr a form of psychosis? (just my thoughts)



## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

I've been thinking about this for a while. , they say that depersonalization is not psychosis. Psychosis is when you loose touch with reality--through delusions and/or hallucinations. But to me, it seems as if dp is "loosing touch with reality". It's like a tactile hallucination; feeling something that is not real. When i feel like i am outside my body, or like my body parts are distored and mixed up, or like i feel other people inside my body ,i am feelings something that is not real, right? And then, if i go on to believe that these things i'm feeling ARE real , then that is concidered a 'delusion', which is a form of psychosis.
with derealization, when i feel like i'm in a dream, or when i see things moving around: like they are flowing and pulsing and swaying back and fourth, i am seeing something that is not real. whether this is an hallucination or a very intense illusion, it is something that is not real. those things are not really moving. so, that right there seems to be a form of losing touch with reality. And, if i start to believe that things really are moving, and that i really am in a dream, then there's another delusion.

well...i just wanted to share that thought, because it's been going on inside my head for a while now. To me, it just doesn't make sense that dp and dr isn't also concidered a form of loosing touch with reality.

-becka


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

No. Depersonalisation is NOT losing contact with reality. Its simply that reality seems weird. You still know that a table is a table, despite it's strangeness.

If you are thinking that you might have a delusion, then you aren't having a delusion. Of course, DR/DP can be a symptom of Schizoprenia, but they two different kettles of fish. The most stable, non-psychotic person can experience DR/DP.

Also, in the mind-blowing majority of cases, DR/DP does not lead to psychosis. People must remember this, despite their OCD's appeals otherwise.


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

I agree with Martin on this one.

DP/DR is rarely like a tactile hallucination. You're not feeling something that's not there, you're just not really "connecting" to what _is_ there.

I never really saw things "flowing or pulsing around" with DP, but it can happen. It seems more of a visual effect of anxiety than a psychotic hallucination, in the same way that a migraine aura differs from a psychotic hallucination. Neither are unconscious imagery "mixing up" with conscious experience, they're simply visual weirdness.

Having said that, some people experience DP/DR with psychosis, and I suppose there are some parallels to be drawn between the two disorders.


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

i suppose i should have mentioned that i do have schizophrenia. And i think the dp and dr i experience is just part of the schiz. I often do believe that the dream-like states and depersonalization is real. That it is because i am in a world made up of illusions (the government created) everything around me isn't real and i am being watched (video-taped, mind being read, etc.) and the depersonalization feelings are people from other demensions trying to communicate through me. but i guess people with true dp/dr are 'aware' that what they experience is not real?

but i see what you are saying that it is not losing contact with reality--just that reality seems weird. But then it's like the same can be said for some people with hallucinations- Even though they might hear voices or see things, they can still be aware that they are not real.

-becka


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Blackwinded - I'm interested. When you are not in a psychotic phase, do you still have delusions? Or rather, do you recognise that your thoughts are delusional?

People with DR/DP may have 'strange' thought, because they are, naturally, trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with them, as some of the conclusions may be bizzarre. But they are still in contact with reality, they, usually, know that what they are thinking is crazy (no offence intended). That's why there is a different between neurotics (who's reality testing is intact - despite feelings of DR/DP/Anxiety) and Psychotics (whos' reality testing and insight is not, during an acute psychotic phase)


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

hi Martinelv,

It might be hard for me to answer your question, because i'm not sure if i am always in psychosis or not. I know that when i come out of an acute episode, i am able to realize that my beliefs i had durring the episode seem strange looking back on them, yet i still tend to believe them a little, though not as strongly. They don't seem as real as they did when i was really psychotic. For example, right now, i still believe that the government has cameras intalled along the highways, that spies constantly follow me and sent me signals through lights, that people put their thoughts into my head, and read my mind, etc. but i don't seem to be focusing and worrying about it as much as i do when i am really "psychotic"
I remember one of the first bizarre delusions i had which was about 2 years ago, had to do with me believing that trees and objects (like chairs,doors, street lights) were communicating with me through telepathy. It all felt very real at the time. These objects seemed to take on some kind of life of there own...i could feel them connecting with my body through some kind of special energy force, and i heard their thoughts in my head. I didn't even really realize i was having a delusion at the time. Looking back on that now, it seems strange and kind've funny, because i don't really believe it now, but at the time, it seemed very real and serious to me.

-becka


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Hiya, thanks for your reply. Sorry - it was a bit of a stupid question on my part.  I can't beging to understand what you are going through.

This interested me though:



> i still believe that the government has cameras intalled along the highways, that spies constantly follow me and sent me signals through lights, that people put their thoughts into my head, and read my mind


I remember when my mother was working in a psychiatric hopstial that she said you should never deny the beliefs of someone who is psychotic. It isn't helpful. But, this really beguiles me. You don't seem actively psychotic, you are lucid, well written and you seem to have insight into your illness. So, and I'm going to tread very carefully here, does your insight allow you to recognise that the chances that the government are spying on you is just part of your disorder. And if you know this, does it change the fact that you still _believe_ it?

Don't reply if you don't want to. I know it can be a sensitive issue.


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## Lilymoonchild (Jun 18, 2005)

So, I'm still intrigued with the idea of dp being a type of psychosis. For me, I've been moderately "normal" for over a year, but over the last few weeks, I've become quite dp'd. 
Basically, I feel like I'm inside a wheel, and when I'm "normal" the wheel keeps me right side up, but over the past few weeks, the wheel has slowly been turning, and now I'm about 90 degrees to the right, but still trying to see the world as I did from the upright position. Now, this is not the part I question as psychosis. 
When I get in this state, I see things as different from what they are. For example, there is a display at my work, and every time I see it, I perceive that it is a girl with long blond hair in a pink shirt leaning over the counter, when in fact it looks NOTHING like this, and there is not even anything pink on it. There is also a box in a room I pass in my hallway every night, and I see this box as a person in a striped shirt, and every time I see it, I jump, and I run past the room, even though I KNOW it is just a box. 
Point is, despite the fact that I know that these things are not what they appear, they still appear as such, and are an extreme distortion of reality. I have also had severe problems with seeing faces everywhere, in everything, like 20-30 faces a day in clouds, doors, ceilings, fabric, etc etc etc. I don't believe these faces are actual beings, they have never spoken to me, I recognize that they don't actually exist. But that doesn't change the fact that a) they bug the hell out of me and b)_I am seeing faces everywhere_. I don't know that you could exactly call that "not psychosis." Thank you for your time.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> I know that these things are not what they appear,


Then you are not psychotic. However, while it's very unusual for people to actually see 'things' that are not there in a DR/DP state, it is normal for extremely anxious people (and indeed, people who have clinical depression often hallucinate) to misinterperate normal everday things as something they are not. Everyone 'see's' things when they are, for example, tired, or daydreaming. It's the same sort of thing. I sometimes get a flutter in my stomach, thinking - oh god, I'm seeing things, when from the corner of my eye I mistake the pattern on the clouds for an evil scowling face, or the branches of a tree resembling something nasty. Shadows on the wall, everything. It happens to everyone, but people who are not anxious just dismiss it as a trick of the mind. If you concentrate hard enough, you can get something familiar such as a Coke can to mutate into a spider, or something that your fevered mind interperates as one.

I doubt that you are psychotic, although it's (unlikely) but possible that you are suffering from some strange neurotic disorder that incorporates hypnogotic hallucinations.

People who are actively psychotic lose insight. That is the big difference. With the lessening of your anxiety, I'm sure that these troubling experiences will fade.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I too want to ask a question but don't want to sound insensitive. When you see things, are they visual, or in mind's eye, which kind of superimposes on the visual reality, giving you the impression that its there?
Sorry if it's a stupid question


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## Lilymoonchild (Jun 18, 2005)

OMG you phrased that so perfectly. I was just telling someone that my mom has a statue of a woman bowing her head, and one time I saw it's head turn to the side and look at me. Except that I knew it didn't. I saw it happen, but it was like it did it on one layer, but there was a layer underneath where it didn't. So in other words, it was superimposed by the mind's eye as you said. 
Wasn't sure if your question was directed at me or blackwinded, but just thought I'd share the insight.


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

both of you actually. Therein lies an important fact - that reality has not been lost, a total break from reality is psychosis.


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

hi martinelv,

don't worry, i don't think any of your questions are stupid or offensive. I'm always glad when someone wants to learn and understand about such things.



> I remember when my mother was working in a psychiatric hopstial that she said you should never deny the beliefs of someone who is psychotic. It isn't helpful. But, this really beguiles me. You don't seem actively psychotic, you are lucid, well written and you seem to have insight into your illness. So, and I'm going to tread very carefully here, does your insight allow you to recognise that the chances that the government are spying on you is just part of your disorder. And if you know this, does it change the fact that you still _believe_ it?
> 
> 
> > I've actually read that only 40% of schizophrenics experience complete unawareness of their condition--meaning that they are unaware that their beliefs (delusions) are concidered strange to the majority of society. They see themselves as just like everyone else. Most schizophrenics are aware that their beleifs are regarded as strange and "crazy" by everyone else, yet, they still believe them.
> ...


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

g-funk said:


> I too want to ask a question but don't want to sound insensitive. When you see things, are they visual, or in mind's eye, which kind of superimposes on the visual reality, giving you the impression that its there?
> Sorry if it's a stupid question


When i see things, it's all very real--like there is really something there in the room with me. I don't usually have very big visual hallucinations: usually just seeing shadows that aren't real, or bugs on the wall. The other night, i saw a bat swoop down towards my face from the ceiling.
I remember a couple years ago, when walking home from school one day, i looked in the window of a house and saw a woman staring at me. I thought she was real at first, but when i looked back, i noticed that her face looked whitish-blue, like she was dead, and her eyes bulged and there was blood running down her arm. So, im pretty sure it was a hallucination, but i still wonder if there was someone really standing there. Maybe i was really seeing a dead woman or someone from another demension. Also, one night i went for a walk and i looked over at the front door of one of the houses and saw an arm reach out from the dark. I sometimes see shadow people dashing across the streets at night and hiding behind trees and such. One night, while i was driving, i saw a huge shadow figure coming towards me. It made me slam on the brakes.

i also see strange visions in my head (usually when i close my eyes). It's like seeing into another demension. I'm not seeing them as if they are really in this world with me, but it's also different from my own thoughts when i invision things. It's actually a lot like the way i hear voices-they are in my head, but it's not like i am just thinking about them and i dont have control over them. It's like people are communicating with me through telepathy. Like people are inserting their thoughts inside my head.

-Becka


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

I find this all very interesting. I have often wondered if I am schizophrenic. I still do even though doctors have assured me I am not cuz I don't see things that aren't there.

I have this belief... well I guess it's not really a belief cuz I am not certain of it... but I have often thought that maybe I was abducted by aliens as a child and this DP I experience is an experiment they are conducting on me. I think this is quite possible although I don't know for sure. So would this be a delusion? Cuz blackwinded says there's always a possibility she's wrong and yet she is still considered schizophrenic, so maybe I am too... or maybe that's not the reason for her diagnosis. Who knows... I guess it doesn't matter.

"I never really say that something is for certain." Describes me perfectly. For awhile I was seeing strange visions in my head, when it first happened I thought I was asleep, but then I realized I could go in and out of it as I wanted... it was like looking through a tunnel. My mother called my name a few times during it and I was able to come out of it and talk a minute and then close my eyes and go right back into it. It was kinda like a dream but not really. That doesn't happen anymore though. I think it's cuz of the meds I'm on now. I was either on different meds before or no meds.

Sorry to bore everyone with my rambling again.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Blackwinded's descriptions sound just like dreams, to me. Shadows, things coming at one -- sounds very much like what everyone experiences in their dreams at one time or another.

Perhaps there's a boundary that is breached somehow, and the stuff of dreams breaks into waking life. That would explain why it appears to be utterly real -- so do our dreams!

I've not done any reading at all about psychotic states, so I really don't know, but in reading the comments in this thread by Blackwinded, I was struck by the dream-like quality of her images.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Lilymoonchild,

I see "faces," too, but maybe not exactly like you do. I see "faces" in things that have screws in a plane surface where the position resembles a human face, such as on the faucet in the bathroom sink, when I look down on it, or on other pieces of machinery or hardware. I have good news: this is a normal feature of being a human being. We are wired for this. This is why the newborn stares at her mother's face and at the face of all people. We are wired for faces. It's simply a fact of physiology and psychology. I have also passed amorphous objects and momentarily taken them to be people.

I can "see" people in many natural formations, and I usually chuckle at the phenomenon, because, like you, I am aware that they are only momentarily looking like that. Something in me WANTS to see a person, WANTS to see a face, WANTS to connect with another human being. We are wired for it, that's all. The message, though, is just like that of the newborn -- we need and want other people.

I think that is all that it is.


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