# derealization caused by migraine



## littlesunshine

I have been suffering from visual snow since i was 18 after i had a bad trip on drugs. After a year or so i came over it, the visual snow stayed, but it was like if my mind got used to it and started seeing it as normal. I have always suffered from ocular migraines, so the reason of my visual problems could come from the latter or drugs, or maybe both.I never took drugs again anyways just the occasional drinking with friends. After 5 years, this summer, i was drinking a glass of wine and i had my first derealization attack. it was like something was just weird and off. I had a panick attack because of it, not knowing what it could be. after a few days lights started bothering me, and in a week i had about two derealiztion spells. two days later i had a horrible ocular migraine, which left me completely useless. I feel drunk most of the time, space out, with trails and after images that become debilitating. I know the visual porblems come from a form of persistent migraine, but what I don't understand is if the derealization part is become i am somewhat anxious, it comes and goes it is not persistent but it terrifies me. i can handle the visual snow and (when they are not so bad) the trails and after images but not the dr. What I wanted to ask you... can derealization come in different forms, sometimes you feel disattached from everything as if somehting is not right, and feeling as though you've drank a bottle of vodka? has anybody who s had derealization because of persistent migraine with aura been cured? i don t mean the visual distrubance just the dr. Can it go away if it is cause by migraine? i need some reassurance as i am really touching rock bottom here. i am started to have horrible thoughts as it is not how i want to live my life. Another question: can derealization be caued by alcohol? thank you.. please help


----------



## Visual

littlesunshine said:


> I have been suffering from visual snow since i was 18 after i had a bad trip on drugs. After a year or so i came over it, the visual snow stayed, but it was like if my mind got used to it and started seeing it as normal. I have always suffered from ocular migraines, so the reason of my visual problems could come from the latter or drugs, or maybe both.I never took drugs again anyways just the occasional drinking with friends. After 5 years, this summer, i was drinking a glass of wine and i had my first derealization attack. it was like something was just weird and off. I had a panick attack because of it, not knowing what it could be. after a few days lights started bothering me, and in a week i had about two derealiztion spells. two days later i had a horrible ocular migraine, which left me completely useless. I feel drunk most of the time, space out, with trails and after images that become debilitating. I know the visual porblems come from a form of persistent migraine, but what I don't understand is if the derealization part is become i am somewhat anxious, it comes and goes it is not persistent but it terrifies me. i can handle the visual snow and (when they are not so bad) the trails and after images but not the dr. What I wanted to ask you... can derealization come in different forms, sometimes you feel disattached from everything as if somehting is not right, and feeling as though you've drank a bottle of vodka? has anybody who s had derealization because of persistent migraine with aura been cured? i don t mean the visual distrubance just the dr. Can it go away if it is cause by migraine? i need some reassurance as i am really touching rock bottom here. i am started to have horrible thoughts as it is not how i want to live my life. Another question: can derealization be caued by alcohol? thank you.. please help


Welcome to the forum. Lots of questions in your post but I am going to have to ask a little more to clarify what your wrote. You've already provided a lot of significant information but I need a few more details.

You have ocular migraines - how long do they last?

You have persistent migraines - how long do they last? Are these ocular migraines or regular migraines (nausea and debilitating headache)?

Other than the snow, are your visual symptoms only during the migraines?

What were your derealization attack symptoms after wine?

*can derealization come in different forms* Yes

*can derealization be caued by alcohol* For me, beer and wine worsen night vision and contrast perception. Vodka rarely does. I don't have visual snow but rather it is like a mild 'white-out'. Does vodka affect your vision?

If I have several drinks or drink 2 or more days in a row, then things are worse in about 1 ½ days and take a few days to get better.


----------



## littlesunshine

Visual Dude said:


> Welcome to the forum. Lots of questions in your post but I am going to have to ask a little more to clarify what your wrote. You've already provided a lot of significant information but I need a few more details.
> 
> You have ocular migraines - how long do they last?
> 
> You have persistent migraines - how long do they last? Are these ocular migraines or regular migraines (nausea and debilitating headache)?
> 
> Other than the snow, are your visual symptoms only during the migraines?
> 
> What were your derealization attack symptoms after wine?
> 
> *can derealization come in different forms* Yes
> 
> *can derealization be caued by alcohol* For me, beer and wine worsen night vision and contrast perception. Vodka rarely does. I don't have visual snow but rather it is like a mild 'white-out'. Does vodka affect your vision?
> 
> If I have several drinks or drink 2 or more days in a row, then things are worse in about 1 ½ days and take a few days to get better.


hello visual dude!

the ocular migraines starts with a scotoma that lasts about 30 minutes, then the painful migraine starts and can last for a few hours. I try to get an abortive pill but it normally does not help.

As persistent migraine i meant persistent migraine aura without infarction, as that is what i probably have seeing I have all of these weird symptomns 24/7 non stop. I have ocular migraine about twice a year, and I think it is linked with my hormones.
Other than the snow, are your visual symptoms only during the migraines? No I suffer from afterimages trails, and severe static.

What were your derealization attack symptoms after wine? I just had a feeling that something was not right, i was dizzy in a weird way as if i had drunk a bottle of it, (which i did not i only had one glass) ma vision was weird (colours, friend's face, ecc) i felt dettached from everything around me it is hard to explain i knew something was wrong, i did not feel present, i had a weird pressure in my head and eyes.this feeling lasted about 5 hours.

why do you think can alcohol induce derealization? do you think my derealization is given from this neurological problem? or is it anxiety? i have always been quite anxious and suffered from panic attacks. but the weird thing is that while i was drinking that glass of wine i was on holiday with friends and i was very happy


----------



## Visual

I suspect there is a neurological issue going on but no need to panic - you already know something isn't quite right and, after all, migraines are neurological events. The combination of afterimages, trails and snow are neurological events whether drug induced or otherwise. As for alcohol, it must just have affected a sensitive area - and you already know it was not anxiety induced.

The questions are to compare with my visual symptoms - which turned out to be a need for more dopamine. My Ophthalmologist suggested ocular migraines but these only last a short time - not 3 years as has been my case. You also have 24/7 symptoms.

Are your symptoms identical in each eye? Or perhaps symmetrical (mirror images)?

Do you have difficulties with contrast? (Harder to see indoors in the evening than outdoors in the day. Difficulty adjusting the TV to see well).


----------



## littlesunshine

I have the identical symptoms in both eyes, and i do have difficulty with contrats. I have done every single possible test out there and the only thing that came out "abnormal" was a neck problem which i am correcting but with no visual improvement. So unless we cure this neurological stuff, the dr or dp will never go away? I have no hope then! i read on the forum so many success stories.. is it because their problems came from anxiety? What we have is probably a migraine complication and doctors don't know anything about it why it happens ecc. Do you take any medicine? I am scared to take anything as I don't want anything to get worse I could not handle it! oh and i have autokinesis too.. great huh??







I dont know about you... but i think i can overcome the visual distrubances with time.. like i did once (even if the snow was much much milder) It is the dr which is killing me!


----------



## Visual

littlesunshine said:


> I have the identical symptoms in both eyes, and i do have difficulty with contrats. I have done every single possible test out there and the only thing that came out "abnormal" was a neck problem which i am correcting but with no visual improvement. So unless we cure this neurological stuff, the dr or dp will never go away? I have no hope then! i read on the forum so many success stories.. is it because their problems came from anxiety? What we have is probably a migraine complication and doctors don't know anything about it why it happens ecc. Do you take any medicine? I am scared to take anything as I don't want anything to get worse I could not handle it! oh and i have autokinesis too.. great huh??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know about you... but i think i can overcome the visual distrubances with time.. like i did once (even if the snow was much much milder) It is the dr which is killing me!


Wow - I also have autokinesis (usually call it non-existent movement or visual 'tremor')! It isn't a migraine complication. And you _can_ find some doctors that will help - but you will need to provide them a little info and they will need to be open to it. While everyone is different, the comparison of our symptoms is _too_ close to dismiss. I spent years figuring it out so you might as well see if you can benefit from it.

You seem very anxious and it is understandable. But I feel certain that you can get help. For all my problems (except autokinesis) there is medicine that works. Some features are mostly gone even when I stop taking any meds. Others are just partly gone.

You appear to be proficient at researching so I encourage you to look up visual symptoms that are part of various neurological disorders. I wish to point particularly to the non-motor symptoms of _advanced_ Parkinson's disease. I don't have the disease but I have the neurological equivalent of some of its features. Contrast perception is one to note. This also affects depth perception (which you may or may not have noticed). None of my symptoms are affected by anxiety or depression - it is just easy to feel these while coping with this stuff.

I've posted a lot of details and much can be found under Bluetank's Tracers/Trails/Ghosting getting bad at times . He has made some excellent pictures. Please read through this http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22388-tracerstrailsghosting-getting-bad-at-times/page__p__197587__fromsearch__1#entry197587

The medications that help me are Sinemet (levodopa), Wellbutrin SR, and Gabapentin. I only need small amount now.

Are you currently trying any medications?

I'll try to check back here from time to time to answer questions and offer what help I may have.


----------



## littlesunshine

Visual Dude said:


> Wow - I also have autokinesis (usually call it non-existent movement or visual 'tremor')! It isn't a migraine complication. And you _can_ find some doctors that will help - but you will need to provide them a little info and they will need to be open to it. While everyone is different, the comparison of our symptoms is _too_ close to dismiss. I spent years figuring it out so you might as well see if you can benefit from it.
> 
> You seem very anxious and it is understandable. But I feel certain that you can get help. For all my problems (except autokinesis) there is medicine that works. Some features are mostly gone even when I stop taking any meds. Others are just partly gone.
> 
> You appear to be proficient at researching so I encourage you to look up visual symptoms that are part of various neurological disorders. I wish to point particularly to the non-motor symptoms of _advanced_ Parkinson's disease. I don't have the disease but I have the neurological equivalent of some of its features. Contrast perception is one to note. This also affects depth perception (which you may or may not have noticed). None of my symptoms are affected by anxiety or depression - it is just easy to feel these while coping with this stuff.
> 
> I've posted a lot of details and much can be found under Bluetank's Tracers/Trails/Ghosting getting bad at times . He has made some excellent pictures. Please read through this http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22388-tracerstrailsghosting-getting-bad-at-times/page__p__197587__fromsearch__1#entry197587
> 
> The medications that help me are Sinemet (levodopa), Wellbutrin SR, and Gabapentin. I only need small amount now.
> 
> Are you currently trying any medications?
> 
> I'll try to check back here from time to time to answer questions and offer what help I may have.


I am not taking anything, my doctor prescribed me lexotan which did nothing but worsen some of my symptoms anxiety ecc.How do you know it is nt a migrane complication? that is what i was diagnosed with! and it kind of seems logical to me as my symptoms came so strongly after an ocular migraine attack! but the weird thing is that on thosewithvisualsnow forum not one persone has gotten relief from anti migraine medicine..from the visual snow and trails ecc. do you have visual snow? i don t know what to do anymore my doctor seems to insist my visual problems are because of a migraine complcation. 
*I wish to point particularly to the non-motor symptoms of advanced Parkinson's disease. I don't have the disease but I have the neurological equivalent of some of its features* how do you know? did it show up in some tests? because everyhting i did came back normal! 
My agopuncturist told me i have these problems because of my liver.. everything is so confusing. Has your dr gotten better? do you think what is causing the visual distrubances is also causing the dr? thank you so much for helping me out! i really appreciate it


----------



## Visual

littlesunshine said:


> I am not taking anything, my doctor prescribed me lexotan which did nothing but worsen some of my symptoms anxiety ecc.How do you know it is nt a migrane complication? that is what i was diagnosed with! and it kind of seems logical to me as my symptoms came so strongly after an ocular migraine attack! but the weird thing is that on thosewithvisualsnow forum not one persone has gotten relief from anti migraine medicine..from the visual snow and trails ecc. do you have visual snow? i don t know what to do anymore my doctor seems to insist my visual problems are because of a migraine complcation.
> *I wish to point particularly to the non-motor symptoms of advanced Parkinson's disease. I don't have the disease but I have the neurological equivalent of some of its features* how do you know? did it show up in some tests? because everyhting i did came back normal!
> My agopuncturist told me i have these problems because of my liver.. everything is so confusing. Has your dr gotten better? do you think what is causing the visual distrubances is also causing the dr? thank you so much for helping me out! i really appreciate it


*How do you know it is nt a migrane complication? that is what i was diagnosed with! and it kind of seems logical to me as my symptoms came so strongly after an ocular migraine attack* Whether there is a connection to blood flow or not (a premise around migraines) or some other factor, it is not in the definition of migraines to persist this long. I was diagnosed with ophthalmic migraine and this delayed my getting the help needed because, at first I believed it.

*do you have visual snow?* No

*i don t know what to do anymore my doctor seems to insist my visual problems are because of a migraine complication.* He knows of no other answer. And, unfortunately, few doctors ever connect these dots. How does he define 'complication' as compared to actually having a migraine?

*how do you know [Parkinsonism]? did it show up in some tests? because everything i did came back normal!* There are no laboratory tests or medical imaging to diagnose Parkinson's (with exception of some PET scans that are rarely used). If you took a MRI of Michael J Fox, his brain would look just fine.

Diagnosis of Parkinson's is made by observation. This gets tricky. 20% of people with Parkinson's do not have tremor (its hallmark) - many neurologists in the USA are unaware of this for some reason. And 25-35% who are diagnosed with Parkinson's didn't have it. The ONLY way to know for sure is to perform an autopsy - which is, of course, too late to help the person.

For me, the diagnosis was based on observing response to medication - specifically dopamine agonists. Levodopa (Sinemet) is the only treatment for the disorder once it has advanced some. What is important is whether you would benefit from such medicines.

*My agopuncturist told me i have these problems because of my liver* All TCM practitioners treat the liver and kidney for eye disorders. Indeed _neurotoxicity_ is very much understood to depend on the liver function in Western medicine as well. Your acupuncturist is treating the cause of the problem. But it doesn't undo what has already happened. I very much encourage that you continue with the alternative stuff as this helps the body to heal. I did a lot before trying medication and maybe this laid the groundwork for such a positive response to them. (It was actually an herbalist who suggested I research Parkinsonism - I didn't believe her or even try to research it for a couple of months)

*Has your dr gotten better?* Much better and as a direct response to medications and nutrition (my DR has never been influenced by anxiety or other emotions) I don't even need as much medication as when I started.

*do you think what is causing the visual distrubances is also causing the dr?* I would think so. It would seem unusual to develop two unrelated problems simultaneously. What are your DR symptoms besides vision problems?

As for doctors, perhaps you could tell the doctor some of this stuff we talking about. And that you would like to explore a dopamine agonist - just low dosage for a few days. If you try this, take note if there is _any_ changes in visual symptoms, not just better but even 'sideways' so to speak. Requip, Wellbutrin and Sinemet are some I've worked with. Even if you are give a regular dose, start with small - especially Wellbutrin as it can take some getting used to.

I've seen 5 neurologists over the years. The only ones that had any real understanding of this sort of thing were one who are actively involved in research. So I would suggest trying to find one like this. But talk with your primary care doctor first.

*thank you so much for helping me out! i really appreciate it* Your welcome. I realize that the source of/solution for your problem could be very different than mine. But at least it gives you an avenue to explore.


----------



## St4rf1sh

First of all!
Hello everybody! I'm new here in this forum and made my account after reading this thread.

My English might not be the best because I'm German...









While reading your posts littlesunshine, i just thought that you experience exactly what I do, for over 7 years now...








Except the part with the drugs. I didn't take any hard drugs in my entire life. So this part can be ruled out in my medical records.
I became ocular migraines about 9 years ago and it was very very hard. I was 16 years old and first didn't know what it was. After a while and a few visits to different specialists, i got the diagnose of ocular migraine. It was hard, when I had the migraine attacks, which was about 1 or 2 times a month I think (can't remember the exact frequency).
It became real bad, when the persistent stuff started. I first realized it, when I was trying to read a text at school. It was the visual snow that I never had seen before, that was new. Looking at the text was very very uncomfortable. From that day on until now it's just so hard to read a text without getting headaches, eye pain and this dizziness in my head which is probably what you call derealization! It's just driving me nuts, because I'm studying at the university for 2.5 years now and you can imagine how hard it is to study without being able to read without having those problems.
To top it all I got diagnosed with myasthenia gravis about half a year ago and because of that I even had a thymectomy in order to get rid of a tumor...

And still after all of these years I don't know the cause of my persistent migraine. Two neurologists came to that diagnose. One of them even does research about it and interviews a lot of patients with that problem here in Germany.
I've also been visiting a psychologist for cognitive behaviour therapy for 2 years (still visiting him, not that often anymore). It helped me a lot, but not with my persistent migraines.

So I don't know what the cause is, but according to my experience I still think it is related to my ocular migraine because:
1. After getting the persistent migraine, my ocular migraine attack frequency lowered down to about 1 or maximum 2 times per year (from 1 or 2 times a month). So maybe the ocular migraine is sort of outsourced to the persistent stuff.
2. The symptoms are in many ways so similar to the ocular migraine, just less strongly and therefore persistent.
3. Two neurologists believe that.

On the other hand, I cannot rule out completely that the origin of all my migraine problems lies in my psyche. I've been bullied at school, a few years before my migraine started and I do have some anxiety problems.

This should be enough to read for you for now.









Looking forward to hear from you!


----------



## Visual

St4rf1sh said:


> First of all!
> Hello everybody! I'm new here in this forum and made my account after reading this thread.
> 
> My English might not be the best because I'm German...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While reading your posts littlesunshine, i just thought that you experience exactly what I do, for over 7 years now...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Except the part with the drugs. I didn't take any hard drugs in my entire life. So this part can be ruled out in my medical records.
> I became ocular migraines about 9 years ago and it was very very hard. I was 16 years old and first didn't know what it was. After a while and a few visits to different specialists, i got the diagnose of ocular migraine. It was hard, when I had the migraine attacks, which was about 1 or 2 times a month I think (can't remember the exact frequency).
> It became real bad, when the persistent stuff started. I first realized it, when I was trying to read a text at school. It was the visual snow that I never had seen before, that was new. Looking at the text was very very uncomfortable. From that day on until now it's just so hard to read a text without getting headaches, eye pain and this dizziness in my head which is probably what you call derealization! It's just driving me nuts, because I'm studying at the university for 2.5 years now and you can imagine how hard it is to study without being able to read without having those problems.
> To top it all I got diagnosed with myasthenia gravis about half a year ago and because of that I even had a thymectomy in order to get rid of a tumor...
> 
> And still after all of these years I don't know the cause of my persistent migraine. Two neurologists came to that diagnose. One of them even does research about it and interviews a lot of patients with that problem here in Germany.
> I've also been visiting a psychologist for cognitive behaviour therapy for 2 years (still visiting him, not that often anymore). It helped me a lot, but not with my persistent migraines.
> 
> So I don't know what the cause is, but according to my experience I still think it is related to my ocular migraine because:
> 1. After getting the persistent migraine, my ocular migraine attack frequency lowered down to about 1 or maximum 2 times per year (from 1 or 2 times a month). So maybe the ocular migraine is sort of outsourced to the persistent stuff.
> 2. The symptoms are in many ways so similar to the ocular migraine, just less strongly and therefore persistent.
> 3. Two neurologists believe that.
> 
> On the other hand, I cannon rule out completely that the origin of all my migraine problems lies in my psyche. I've been bullying at school, a few years before my migraine started and I do have some anxiety problems.
> 
> This should be enough to read for you for now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking forward to hear from you!


Welcome!

Sorry to hear about myasthenia gravis and needing a thymectomy - autoimmune stuff is never fun.

Thank you for your post and info on persistant migraines. For me, as you probably read, the problem is with a breakdown of ambient visual processing. I am curious about more detail of your visual symptoms besides snow and headaches from reading.


----------



## jes

Hi - I'm also new. Just found this site last night and as I read people's different symptoms I think that maybe we all have some strange disease that hasn't been labeled yet. I don't have Depersonalization now, but have had it twice in my life. I also have Migraine aura without pain --- the typical zig zag that last 20 minutes and now a new retinal type that causes partial blindness in one eye with bright falling stars. I also have had the afterimages, but never knew what they were until I read this forum. I see blue marks in the street sometimes after stopping at a traffic light. I also feel a vague off balance feeling much of the time. My depersonalization happened when I was in college completing a field placement at the state mental hospital. The patients terrified me and after one followed me to the car after work(which unnerved me) I noticed as I was driving home that everything seemed really far away. Everyone and everything looked unreal and far away. I can't remember how many weeks or months it lasted, but it finally went away. After that happened a couple of months later I had my first panic attack. I never saw a doctor about the disorders. I didn't even know I had panic disorder until about 10 years later when I read about the disorder in a book. The second depersonalization came about 10 years ago when I had what felt like water in my ear. I was diagnosed with a vestibular problem in one ear. I didn't understand why that would cause the depersonalization, but yesterday I read on a medical site that vestibular problems can lead to depersonalization. Anyway, now the migraine auras have gotten worse. Until a couple of years ago I had only had 4 or 5 aura's in my life. Now, I'm getting them more often and they have changed. I did smoke Marijuana in college and did mushrooms once. Could that have caused all this? That was 100 years ago. Oh, I also have started to see those faces when I first close my eyes at night. It is amazing how vivid the faces are. I kind of like that because it's fun looking at them. However, it's a new symptom. I do have ringing in my ears and at times my head feels full or tight, but I think that's before an aura. I never want to get depersonalization again --- it is a terrible feeling. However, from reading all the posts it sounds like someday it may return ---- guess its part of our weird syndrome.


----------



## BusyBee

I cant help but I am very interested in this post. I have never drunk too heavily or smoked pot since many many years ago so i do not relate my problems to either of these factors. However I was very stressed in a traumatic relationship before my DR/DP hit.

Migraine does not run in my family.. Infact the only nasty we've had in our family so far is Adult Sudden Death Syndrome, and as my doctor rightly agreed, I dont think its that..









In march I had my first ocular migraine... left me totally disabled for months. Every three days, another would hit. Vision loss, speech loss, sensation loss. I thought my neurones were breaking down. I was becoming a vegatable as far as i was concerned.

I was freaked by it all, sooo many questions. Why, after the second migraine did I get this incredibly strong DR that has never left me? Was it the migraine that caused it? Did I have a mini-stroke? (I was on the contraceptive pill at the time but I have since been banned from taking it) Was the DR casued purely by the stress? Or was something intoxicating me? And why were the migraines on a three day cyle? Did my brain have a clock... freaky.

I am on preventitives now, so have not had a similar migraine attack for months. Yet im still on here arnt i? Recently i developed a bizarre 'bright spot in vision' which, afetr being checked is NOT my eye.. so a permenant migraine? Is this possible?


----------



## Visual

BusyBee said:


> I cant help but I am very interested in this post. I have never drunk too heavily or smoked pot since many many years ago so i do not relate my problems to either of these factors. However I was very stressed in a traumatic relationship before my DR/DP hit.
> 
> Migraine does not run in my family.. Infact the only nasty we've had in our family so far is Adult Sudden Death Syndrome, and as my doctor rightly agreed, I dont think its that..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In march I had my first ocular migraine... left me totally disabled for months. Every three days, another would hit. Vision loss, speech loss, sensation loss. I thought my neurones were breaking down. I was becoming a vegatable as far as i was concerned.
> 
> I was freaked by it all, sooo many questions. Why, after the second migraine did I get this incredibly strong DR that has never left me? Was it the migraine that caused it? Did I have a mini-stroke? (I was on the contraceptive pill at the time but I have since been banned from taking it) Was the DR casued purely by the stress? Or was something intoxicating me? And why were the migraines on a three day cyle? Did my brain have a clock... freaky.
> 
> I am on preventitives now, so have not had a similar migraine attack for months. Yet im still on here arnt i? Recently i developed a bizarre 'bright spot in vision' which, afetr being checked is NOT my eye.. so a permenant migraine? Is this possible?


Perhaps in Germany, neurologist believe in persistent migraines as *St4rf1sh* reported.

However, I've not been able to find medical literature that says such is possible. However there are post from doctors saying it must be something else.

For you to experience *Vision loss, speech loss, sensation loss* - Wow, that is severe. Since the preventatives are working, this is evidence that these nasty experiences are true migraines. But the bright spot seems to be something else.

Can you still see in the bright spot? Is everything brighter? How is it in a dark room? When you close your eyes? Is it just one eye?

P.S. I'm not trying to worry you - please don't worry. Just trying to help.


----------



## Emir

littlesunshine said:


> It is the dr which is killing me!


Are you experiencing DR as the world looking and feeling strange and alien? Is it constant? Try some grounding techniques, focusing, carrying out actions very slowly and deliberately, asking yourself where you are, focusing on your senses, what you hear, feel, smell, etc. Find or get to something familiar to counteract the feeling of unfamiliarity with your environment. I find that sometimes DR is localized, once I get to a different environment is dissipates.


----------



## Visual

j4mtj said:


> Are you experiencing DR as the world looking and feeling strange and alien? Is it constant? Try some grounding techniques, focusing, carrying out actions very slowly and deliberately, asking yourself where you are, focusing on your senses, what you hear, feel, smell, etc. Find or get to something familiar to counteract the feeling of unfamiliarity with your environment. I find that sometimes DR is localized, once I get to a different environment is dissipates.


Interesting - which environments help you and which are harder? Are you saying that the more familiar (your home or bedroom) the less trouble?


----------



## Emir

...


----------



## BusyBee

Visual Dude said:


> Perhaps in Germany, neurologist believe in persistent migraines as *St4rf1sh* reported.
> 
> However, I've not been able to find medical literature that says such is possible. However there are post from doctors saying it must be something else.
> 
> For you to experience *Vision loss, speech loss, sensation loss* - Wow, that is severe. Since the preventatives are working, this is evidence that these nasty experiences are true migraines. But the bright spot seems to be something else.
> 
> Can you still see in the bright spot? Is everything brighter? How is it in a dark room? When you close your eyes? Is it just one eye?
> 
> P.S. I'm not trying to worry you - please don't worry. Just trying to help.


Youre not worrying me







Im getting used the bright spot. Its faded but its still there... had the opthalmologist have a good look (went to casulty in the end so managed to get a referal) but he said its nothing serious. Which I was glad about however it shone no light onto what the prbblem actually was (pardon the pun!)

Maybe youre right and that persistant migraines exist.. but when is the headache going to come? Suely my blood vessles have not been restricted for 4 weeks. I'd be dead by now!

It is definatly one eye.. so thats what made me think its not migraine. However the optic nerve is normal apparently. It does not affect the rest of my vision, except that it presents as a 'blind spot' when i notice it.. it flashes up bright for about half a second when I blink or 'stimulate' the vision by going from dark to light. It is almost unnoticable in the dark.

What im still wondering about are these classic migraines. Yes the preventors seem to be working.. but what on earth?!

'I dont wana ever feel like i did that day..' etc


----------



## Visual

BusyBee said:


> Youre not worrying me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im getting used the bright spot. Its faded but its still there... had the opthalmologist have a good look (went to casulty in the end so managed to get a referal) but he said its nothing serious. Which I was glad about however it shone no light onto what the prbblem actually was (pardon the pun!)
> 
> Maybe youre right and that persistant migraines exist.. but when is the headache going to come? Suely my blood vessles have not been restricted for 4 weeks. I'd be dead by now!
> 
> It is definatly one eye.. so thats what made me think its not migraine. However the optic nerve is normal apparently. It does not affect the rest of my vision, except that it presents as a 'blind spot' when i notice it.. it flashes up bright for about half a second when I blink or 'stimulate' the vision by going from dark to light. It is almost unnoticable in the dark.
> 
> What im still wondering about are these classic migraines. Yes the preventors seem to be working.. but what on earth?!
> 
> 'I dont wana ever feel like i did that day..' etc


*when is the headache going to come?*

Ophthalmic migraines don't have headaches like regular migraines.

*Im getting used the bright spot. Its faded but its still there*

Did you try spot remover?









Perhaps it is your sub-conscience interrogating you? - "_Ve Have Vays of Making You Talk!_"

OK, I'm in a silly mood and terrible at making jokes - no offence I hope.









Ok, some more questions (will it never stop







)

*It is definitely one eye*

To anyone: Do migraines present the same symptoms in both eyes or can it be different in each eye?

*it presents as a 'blind spot'* - is it sort of a blind spot? You can see but it is faded or less clear (acuity)?

I've actually got an idea to try (seriously) - something that I've done that is more of a retinal test,

In the evening, adjust the light in your room so you can just barely notice the spot. Then look at finely textured surfaces (roller dimple on painted walls, fabric like canvas or sheets) at different angles and lighting. See how the spot 'behaves' and if there are any other areas or mottling patterns. Please let us know if you notice anything.

I'd better stop here before using up all the 'emoticons'.


----------



## BusyBee

j4mtj said:


> Are you experiencing DR as the world looking and feeling strange and alien? Is it constant? Try some grounding techniques, focusing, carrying out actions very slowly and deliberately, asking yourself where you are, focusing on your senses, what you hear, feel, smell, etc. Find or get to something familiar to counteract the feeling of unfamiliarity with your environment. I find that sometimes DR is localized, once I get to a different environment is dissipates.


My mum says she gets this too. She calls it Tesco-phobia. She says once shes back in familiar suuroundings (the car, at home) it goes. Obviously I'm on here because my DR didnt go. Not for one second. I cant ground myself as Ive tried- no matter how much I strain my eyes or hold that object to my face its still looks a million miles away.


----------



## BusyBee

Visual Dude said:


> *when is the headache going to come?*
> 
> Ophthalmic migraines don't have headaches like regular migraines.
> 
> *Im getting used the bright spot. Its faded but its still there*
> 
> Did you try spot remover?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it is your sub-conscience interrogating you? - "_Ve Have Vays of Making You Talk!_"
> 
> OK, I'm in a silly mood and terrible at making jokes - no offence I hope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, some more questions (will it never stop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> *It is definitely one eye*
> 
> To anyone: Do migraines present the same symptoms in both eyes or can it be different in each eye?
> 
> *it presents as a 'blind spot'* - is it sort of a blind spot? You can see but it is faded or less clear (acuity)?
> 
> I've actually got an idea to try (seriously) - something that I've done that is more of a retinal test,
> 
> In the evening, adjust the light in your room so you can just barely notice the spot. Then look at finely textured surfaces (roller dimple on painted walls, fabric like canvas or sheets) at different angles and lighting. See how the spot 'behaves' and if there are any other areas or mottling patterns. Please let us know if you notice anything.
> 
> I'd better stop here before using up all the 'emoticons'.


Haha! No offense caused. I like people who ask questions..so many don't.

I'll describe it as I did to the opthalmologist. It is not technically a blind spot, but a blob of distorted vision that is dark, but at the same time bright; like a pot-hole in the pavement, filled with rain water and reflecting the sky.

The opthalmologist said to this, 'Well thats creative', to which I replied, 'I've had plenty of time to think about it'









And so there we have it. My best description. I'll try your textured surface test. Its almost like ive just caught a glimpse of a flashlight and it is fading in a similar way. Now, when im outside and i blink it flashes yellowe rather than bright white.

Migraine maybe.. perhaps its in both eyes but out of the visual field in the other..


----------



## St4rf1sh

Hi again,
@BusyBee:
The blind spot you have seems to be a really strange thing. I never had something like this, so i can't relly say much about it. It's hard to say, if this belongs to migraine or not, i think. And that's the same with all of these strange symptoms that people have. I think it might be possible, that it came from the migraine attacks. You didn't have it before and this is obviously the only thing, that caused other visual symptoms. So it is the closest explanation.

I found many different possible explanations, like

special form of migraines,
Cranio-Mandibular-Dysfunction,
psychosomatic problem,
food intolerances,
heavy metal poisoning,
etc.....

You probably find a lo more things, that try to explain vision problems and derealization.

The thing is, that you have to stick to the most obvious things.
And that is in my opinion neurological things like migraines and psychosomatic problems.
I have tried both directions so far and nothing helped me a single bit (well, it helped me, but not with my visual and dizzyness stuff), which is really frustrating, because i'm trying to find a solution for ober seven years now.

But I've learned one thing about those problems. And that is, that you can't just say it is one or another. It usually is both in some way. For example is migraine (as far as science knows) caused by genetical disorders (most of the time there are more than one person in the close family who have migraines) and also caused psychosomatically. So it needs both components to happen.

To the comment, that there is no literature about persistent migraine:
there are a few sites, which discuss the problem like
http://www.migraine-aura.org/content/index_en.html (which is not only run by German doctors)

you can google persistent migraine and you'll find a few other. But the point is, and this is the most important I think, that absolutely NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHAT EXACTLY CAUSES THE VISUAL PROBLEMS DURING MIGRAINES. Actually the doctors have no real idea what is going on in most parts of our brains. Which is no blame, but it is just too complex for us to understand right now. Maybe in 10 or 100 years...

Personally i have this opinion about the cause of my problems.

I think that genetic predisposition (my father had a few times migraines with aura) and then other psychosomatic causes made me getting migraine attacks, when i was about 16 years old. Got that typical migraines with all the visuals stuff before the horrible headaches came. After a few hours it got better apart from being sort of dizzy for more hours.
And now i'm pretty sure that my persistent problems also belong to the migraines, because as i said before the frequency of the attacks went down to only one or two times a year. When it started i had it more than one time a month or even more often.
And then it started some day. I noticed it while i was reading a text in school. It first it was just uncomfortable and i didn't really know what to think about it. I thought it would just go away soon... But from that day on reading is just the not really possible. Well, i obviously can read. but the longer i read the more dizzy i get and the less i understand what i read, which is not the big problem when i read easy literature, but when it comes to a bit more complex stuff it's just too hard... I get headaches too, when i try to read longer because i have to in order to go on with my studies
I don't have blind spots or something like this. The visual part is more exactly like it is just before the visual symptoms of a migraine attack should fade. You know, when it has spread over the whole view. This is also what leads me to a complication which belongs to migraine...

And also the fact that i was in some forums, where people describe exactly the same and ALL OF THEM have had migraines with aura before. The official requirement for getting diagnosed with persistent migraine is that visual problems remain after having a "normal" migraine attack. There is just not known much more about persistent migraines, because it happens so rarely.

Well of course i'm not a hundred percent sure that all this is caused by migraines, but it seems really the most obvious thing. If the root of it all lies in my psyche is another thing, but i think the migraines, which might be causes by my psyche when i was younger lead to what i have now...


----------



## BusyBee

St4rf1sh said:


> heavy metal poisoning,
> etc.....
> 
> But I've learned one thing about those problems. And that is, that you can't just say it is one or another. It usually is both in some way. For example is migraine (as far as science knows) caused by genetical disorders (most of the time there are more than one person in the close family who have migraines) and also caused psychosomatically. So it needs both components to happen.
> 
> And also the fact that i was in some forums, where people describe exactly the same and ALL OF THEM have had migraines with aura before. The official requirement for getting diagnosed with persistent migraine is that visual problems remain after having a "normal" migraine attack. There is just not known much more about persistent migraines, because it happens so rarely.


Hi, this is interesting stuff. Im guessing that migrainous or not, my 'spot' is one of those unexplainable things; it did not follow a standard migraine as ive been on prevetitives for months. It does not cause me undue trouble, now that it is not stressing me.

I have considered lead poisoning as 2 of us at work went down with serious illness at thesame time, after both working there a year. months later, another lollegue prented a similar migraine. We are based inan old Victorian building. The pipes have not been checked according to the recent report. However i cannot get anyone to belive me; ive tried environmental health, the waterboard, my GP. ive stopped drinking the water thats all i can do. (Work will do everything they can to cover it up obviosly as they would have a hefty legal case and have to kiss bye bye to thousands if it came back piositive)

My migraines were absulutly typical, visually. Except for of course 3 factors: They happened on a regular three day pattern despite that nothing else in my life was on the same pattern; no one in my family has ever had migraine or even prone to headaches, this is partly why i was so scared. My mum told me when i asked when i was young, 'I think a migraine is just a really painful headache dear'; and of course, the deralisation, which came on after the second migraine. Maybe a symptom of the migraine they say? But a migraine aftermath shoul last a week at the most. Not nearly a year.

I think these are questions i will never be able to answer. I just hope, and do belive that my migraines and my DP were caused by my two year stressful relationship, and in time, will heal.


----------

