# Who to believe... psychotic or not



## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

My psychiatrist, who believes I suffer from early psychosis (symptoms listed on personal website), refered me to a gentlemen (who was far from gentle) specializing in psychosis. He also agreed with my psychiatrist, but worded it differently. At first he said he wouldn't go so far as to call it schizophrenia but later called it a rare form of schizophrenia. So rare in fact that those with this type fall under the 1% of all schizophrenics (!?!?). During my reading I have found a huge overlap between DPD symptoms (at least those reported on this site) and symptoms of schizophrenia (not of the delusional and hullicination type). I am afraid to list them because I know many of you will worry once you read them. When I first read of DPD I was sure it was what I had. Now I am wondering... but I am not sure. I am frustrated, confused, don't know who to believe, etc. Perhaps this would be easier if I just avoided the entire doc scene like I know many of you have. But then again, perhaps not. Oh, who knows. Just lots of uncertainty these days. We all know how much we enjoy uncertainty. Had to get this out. Thanks.

Janine, Dreamer, anyone else?


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2005)

YOur website was an interesting read.

I'm glad you mentioned this

"Crackly/full ears: Inner ears can make sounds of velcro ripping upon voluntary muscle movement. It is now impossible to clear my ears.

Fading voice: Often when I speak, it's like each word I say quickly disappears from my conscience, as though I never said. This leads to having a hard time speaking. Sometimes I question whether or not I have said something or just thought it. This led to wondering (but knowing it wasn't possible) if people could hear my thoughts."

As I get this as well. I can remember when I was young, making a noise of some description like an "Ahhh" or something, and then a moment later wondering if it had really happened. I knew it had, but it seemed I could make myself think otherwise. Or something. :? It's hard to explain.

And I get the ear thing too. Good description by the way.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2005)

More than one shrink used the "schizophrenia" word with me. I think there are similarities between schizophrenia and some types of DP Disorder but afer having lived with this for a long time, I really don't think we're schizophrenics.

I think some of us are delusional/ paranoid to an extent, I have definitely had delusional thinking and not just of the "am I real and is everyone else real" variety.

I think the shrinks say this because both they and you are grasping at straws to try to define and understand this. But it's a long shot to use the "sch" word. Personally, I would not listen to them. The similarites in symptoms may be extensive, but so are the similarites between temporal lobe epilepsy and DP disorder.


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## ret (Aug 10, 2004)

Doctors are full of shit. If I was you I'd just find it funny and laugh at the fact that they're getting paid hundreds of dollars an hour to do this.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

LOL Reticent, well, sometimes I feel that way when I read stories like Unigirl's.

Uni, I know you're in a tough situation re: finances, choice of doctor, etc. but.... oh brother, you just don't come off as psychotic to me. And I certainly can't diagnose you without meeting you, and I ain't no doctor and don't want to be one....

But, if you are seeing a sub-par doctor, this may be indeed a complete lack of knowledge or understanding.

I have been VERY lucky, all my life. And remember I've always had good health insurance in the U.S. here and lived in large cities/some university towns. Every psychiatrist I've seen has recognized DP immediately. No one ever called me psychotic. These were all M.D. psychiatrists.

My diagnosis over the years since age fifteeen in 1975 -- yes, seventy-five, sigh -- has remained essentially unchanged, and I'm surprised that certain doctors didn't see the borderline characteristics I have. The last doctor I have bandied a number of theories about, and he was the closest to noticing those traits in ME. Yet I digress.

Where I've gotten the wildest diagnoses here in the US were with psychologists -- M.A., Ph.D. etc. But recently at a neuropsychiatriclly oriented Uni (M-Go-Blue) my diagnosis again remained the same, and group therapy was recommended -- first time in my life. No meds changes, etc.

I hate to say this, but I so desperately want you to get another opinion.

I don't believe you have some "rare form of psychosis" -- I don't know that I've ever heard of such a thing, but I could be wrong.

*Can you PM me the website, so we don't terrify the entire site here, LOL :shock: *

I wish I could emphasize .. and again this is perhaps because I grew up in a "family" of 2 doctors, one a shrink. I NEVER feared schizophrenia or psychosis. I knew what these were. I simply feared, and still fear in the future -- scared of getting old, :shock: -- having HORRENDOUS DP that takes over that I can't get out of.

I don't consider that psychosis, but a serious perceptual shift that is horrific but I can't get out of. That is a fear I've had most of my life.

I'm doing much better though. Amazing as that may sound. Just in the past several months.

Psychosis, or rather psychotic symptoms which CAN exist outside of schizophrenia (which is a specific diagnosis with a number of criteria) has it's own constellation of symptoms. SOunds like the doctor, I want to say "doctor" is misunderstanding how you EXPRESS how you feel, and isn't listening.

I would at this point, dump this doctor, and look for someone else. If that is at all possible.

I don't know you, but I find it unlikely you are psychotic, have schizoprhenia, etc.

Take Care
Good luck -- there are idiot mental health professionals aplenty, but there are good ones too.
D 8)


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2005)

Uni, you are not psychotic.

You want to know whats psychotic? I'll tell you

Early Sunday morning, where I live, police took this guy in for questioning about a stabbing/robbery. While he was being questioned, he somehow managed to get the gun from the detective and shoot him 4 times in the chest. He than jumped out of the window, which was 3 stories and was caught later. His family says he is mentally unstable, and even his girlfriend warned police of this. Supposidly he was hearing voices and hallucinating and they were gonna bring him into see someone, but he was being uncooperative. THATS PSYCHOTIC. You have to be out of your mind to kill someone, let alone a detective. What bothers me is that this guy never recieved help for his problems and this is the end result. I guess this guy had been in a car accident and suffered head injuries and was in a coma, and when he awoke from the coma, he was very mentally unstable. Thats crazy how head injuries can well, make you crazy. I thank God everyday that my issues aren't something as severe as Phychosis or Schizophrenia. This whole anxiety/depression, dp/dr thing, We can over come it. Im almost 100 % sure of it.

So again you are not psychotic and your doctors have no idea what they are talking about.


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## ShaneSutherly (Jan 12, 2005)

What is psychosis really? Just because there are symptoms that people see as psychosis doesnt really mean that it is psychosis. How do we know that normal people arent really the psychotic ones and the supposedly psychotic people arent really the normal ones? I don't like labeling how people feel. Its like with dp. Man I'm dped. How do you know? Just because they think that your symptoms mean you have dp doesnt mean you do.


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## Scattered (Mar 8, 2005)

I don't necessarily like labels either but I do benefit from the understanding that the label provides. The first step to solving your problems is to give it a name and understand what you're up against.

As for psychosis I would say any person who is not rational and is a threat to himself or someone else would be psychotic. Otherwise what we're talking about is more about someone who deviates from the norm - a norm that I would consider relative to a persons culture - and is therefore said to be "abnormal." But you cant throw the baby out with the bathwater as they say, to COMPLETELY get rid of labels is to simply allow chaos to reign.


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

> During my reading I have found a huge overlap between DPD symptoms (at least those reported on this site) and symptoms of schizophrenia (not of the delusional and hullicination type).


But..see, oh, good GOD, lol....this is what just kills me about the doctors you're seeing. Yes, you're correct - there are very many similar descriptive mental experiences in dp/dr states and schizophrenia.

BUT, then you add "not of the delusional or hallucination type" - THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT SCHIZOPHRENIA, lol....

It's like comparing the state of bleeding from a very deep cut to the state of being decapitated. yes, both produce large amounts of red fluid on the body surface. yes, both produce serious blood loss from the internal organs. yes, both produce severe and massive changes within the arterial processes. But they are not the same because only ONE of the two includes the loss of a head! That last little piece of empirical evidence is not inconsequential, lol!

All I can say is you must find another doctor, someone not affiliated with the first one.

Peace,
Janine


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

what are your exact symptoms?


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

dakotajo said:


> what are your exact symptoms?


Current Symptoms- in order of severity with the most disturbing being first

Visual derealization: Two-dimensional, flat like a picture, and as though I am seeing the world through a fish bowl.

Feelings of unreality/Derealization: Like I'm living in a dream... everything is fake. The distinct 'crispness' and emotional feeling associated with being in the present or in reality is gone. Everything is a blur.

Depersonalization: Feels like I'm 'going through the motions', like I don't have control of my body or like I'm in someone else's body. I often feel like a zombie, walking around half asleep, like half of my brain has been removed or like I am dead. This is generally present in the absence of anxiety. At this time speaking is often physically draining.

Visual and Auditory Over-stimulation: Extremely disoriented and confused in busy places-- leads to feelings of alcoholic intoxication. It's like during my thought process, my thoughts bump into each other and get all tangled up. I often describe this as being unable to filter out unnecessary stimuli (feels like I am being bombarded with visual and auditory stimuli). Results in having a difficult time both speaking and hearing. Difficulty hearing voices when background noise is present (while others have no problem). Often cannot determine from what direction a noise is coming from.

Anxiety: High base level of anxiety. Without anxiety the depersonalization is strongest.

Muscle tension and twitches: Neck tension especially at the base of my skull and dural tension. Occasional mouth/jaw stiffness with feelings of my mouth being frozen and therefore difficultly controlling mouth and speech. This leads to feelings of exhaustion when trying to speak. Muscle twitches at base of skull that turn my head slightly from side to side. Sounds of bones shifting accompany the spasms. Postural fatigue in neck area. Frequently need to lie down which helps reduce pressure feelings.

Subconscience stronger than conscience: My subconscious ?blabber? is noisier than before/the thoughts I do not consciously control are louder.

Time distortion: Perceived time lapses which feel as though a few minutes have passed without me knowing what I was doing during that time (better after starting Paxil).

Crackly/full ears: Inner ears can make sounds of velcro ripping upon voluntary muscle movement. It is now impossible to clear my ears.

Fading voice: Often when I speak, it's like each word I say quickly disappears from my conscience, as though I never said. This leads to having a hard time speaking. Sometimes I question whether or not I have said something or just thought it. This led to wondering (but knowing it wasn't possible) if people could hear my thoughts.

Social Anxiety: Feel uncomfortable around people. For example, in a line-up, I feel like I am being watched and judged leaving me feeling physically paralyzed. Often feel like people are watching me, talking/laughing about me and sometimes while walking alone with someone on the same road, I feel as though they are following me. I do know the possibilities of these occurring are unlikely though.

Control of movements: Often feel it is difficult to control my movements.

Insomnia: Mind won't stop thinking although the thoughts have no direction.


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

This is only my opinion. Any doctor that labels you psychotic from those symptoms is nuts himself. Those are all classic symptoms of anxiety or basically a fof response that is staying "turned on".

Like most here, you have a very bad anxiety problem and probably also suffer from depression but the anxiety has become so dominant. Anxiety is your main symptom. All of the physical and mental stuff is all a bi-product.

Are you currently taking any drugs(ssris?) I think Ive read in the past that you were taking paxil? Did it help any?

If Im not mistaken, dont you feel that your problems started from drug use? I used to believe the same thing but now I understand that the drug induced stress just "tipped the scales" for me. I believe a person just has to forget about the past and just worry about how to feel better in the future.

Joe


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## dakotajo (Aug 10, 2004)

I believe most of us here are a product of depression that has gone untreated too long. Depression and anxiety go hand and hand. Recovery at this point becomes very long and difficult. The symptom of dp/dr is a product of intense anxiety. Its no different than any other symptom of anxiety. Problem is our reality changes and its terrifying. We fixate on this symptom and we feel we have some bizzarre disorder yet the main problem is still the anxiety/depression.

Joe


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

I should add that the psychosis specialist reviewed a recent CT scan of my brain he noted that my left ventricle was slightly larger than the right and slight frontal lobe atrophy (shrinkage). I was quite surprised as a CT scan I had performed in 2003 showed no such abnormalities. Anyways, he told me these abnormalities are typical of patients with schizophrenia. I may get him to compare my 2003 with my recent CT.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

JanineBaker said:


> > During my reading I have found a huge overlap between DPD symptoms (at least those reported on this site) and symptoms of schizophrenia (not of the delusional and hullicination type).
> 
> 
> But..see, oh, good GOD, lol....this is what just kills me about the doctors you're seeing. Yes, you're correct - there are very many similar descriptive mental experiences in dp/dr states and schizophrenia.
> ...


Through all of this I am trying to remain open to opinions, ideas, etc. Thanks for your opinion Janine and others. Janine, I feel I should believe the psychosis specialist when he said that 1% of schizophrenics do not experience delusions or hallucinations. I just want to read it somewhere. I am going to try to find this written in the literature. If anyone comes across it before me, please let me know. After all, what if it's true? :wink: I must say, trying to diagnose someone who does not fit typical criteria is difficult. Maybe I am a new breed. 

I often ask myself what I can lose if I try anti-psychotics... I briefly tried risperidal but decreased the dose after having problems with planning in my head. Because of this I am hesitant to try it again but I likely will. I know this side effect will go away if I decrease the dose. Of course I am also concerned of tardive dyskinesia but at low doses I believe it is uncommon. So, I don't have much to lose then do I? Well, I guess if the antipsychotic route is not the route for me then I will be losing valuable time trying them.


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## ret (Aug 10, 2004)

Ok, I didn't bother reading the rest of the posts in this thread.

But, I just wanted to add that it might be worth seeing a consultant psychiatrist if your looking for a diagnosis uni. They cost more but at least they're not complete d!ckheads.


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## Homeskooled (Aug 10, 2004)

Dear University Girl, 
I'm looking over your symptoms now. True, all of them are experienced by schizophrenics, but to an incredibly extreme degree. Where you , and many others have social anxiety disorder, schizophrenics have "positive" and "negative" symptoms which make it impossible to interface with other humans or themselves. I might be able to see where they all are coming from,if you do indeed have brain atrophy. Its very rare in people our age. My latest MRI showed an increase in ventricular size, so I asked my neuroligist to check for atrophy. There is a very specific area where the frontal lobe connects to the temporal and parietal areas, which if the increase in size is caused by atrophy, will show shrinkage, scarring, etc...I didnt have any signs. Usually the only things in our age bracket which can do it are MS, alcoholism, and schizophrenia. I'm just not convinced that you have schizophrenia yet. If you did, it would be an incredibly early stage. Take that CT scan to an actual neuroligist and see what he has to say. As much as I want to go into psychiatry eventually, the psychiatrists are horrible with medical diagnosises. They just are. They're better at eyeballing intangible things, which isnt a real good thing either. Lastly, the porphyria I have may be to some sort of toxic exposure, and not genetic. I thought of you when I first got diagnosed. As a friend and someone who knows a little about medicine, I would ask to get my blood porphyrins checked. They too, can cause brain lesions. Okay, got to go, and dont worry too much. These things always have rational answers.

Peace
Homeskooled


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## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

university girl said:


> Janine, I feel I should believe the psychosis specialist when he said that 1% of schizophrenics do not experience delusions or hallucinations. I just want to read it somewhere. I am going to try to find this written in the literature. If anyone comes across it before me, please let me know.


*This* describes various subtypes of schizophrenia, some of which do not include delusions or hallucinations as symptoms.

e


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

Uni, to me you seem like one one the most "normal" people on this site. Your speaking is so orgainzed and your symptoms to me just scream classic anxiety. Of course I don't know you, but if these are the symptoms your docs are basing all of this on I just don't get it. I don't think you have any form of schizophrenia and every time you mention it I'm thinking, she needs to find some new doctors. Quit going to doctors that one who thinks you are schizophrenic refers you to because more than likely they probably think alike on these matters. I would try a new doctor that is in no way connected to these others just to see what he/she says. I just don't understand this schizophrenic diagnosis you are getting.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

I will attempt to get a neurologist to compare my CT scans. I'll let ya all know what comes of it.


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

university girl said:


> I will attempt to get a neurologist to compare my CT scans. I'll let ya all know what comes of it.


Dear Uni,
This seems to be the most logical step to take, and again, a second opinion from another psychiatrist and neurologist.

I looked up schizophrenia again in the Merck Manual... essentially the DSM-IV online, plus every illness known to mankind, LOL.

As noted, "schizoprhenia and related disorders" are tremendously disabling and affect not only feelings but cognitive functioning.

Only a person who observes you, really does a full workup on you, can know what is happening. My sense is that you have the miserable mess we have here -- DP, anxiety, etc., however, no one here can give you a diagnosis.

Here's the info on Schizophrenia and Related Disorders:

Everything from hereon is from the Merck Manual.....

*"Schizophrenia and Related Disorders"*

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section15/chapter193/19
3a.jsp

In terms of personal and economic costs, schizophrenia has been 
described as among the worst diseases afflicting humankind.

Schizophrenia and the related disorders included in this chapter--

- brief psychotic disorder,
- schizophreniform disorder,
- schizoaffective disorder,
- and delusional disorder

--*are characterized by psychotic symptoms, which may include 
delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking and speech, and 
bizarre and inappropriate behavior.

Typically, these disorders affect patients in late adolescence or 
early adulthood and are often lifelong. Schizotypal personality 
disorder may share features with schizophrenia (eg, paranoid 
ideation, magical thinking, social avoidance, vague and digressed 
speech), but they are generally not severe enough to meet the 
criteria for psychosis.*

*Schizophrenia*

http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section15/chapter193/19
3b.jsp

A common and serious mental disorder characterized by loss of 
contact with reality (psychosis), hallucinations (false 
perceptions), delusions (false beliefs), abnormal thinking, 
flattened affect (restricted range of emotions), diminished 
motivation, and disturbed work and social functioning.

*Worldwide, the prevalence of schizophrenia appears to be 1%, 
although pockets of higher or lower prevalence exist. In the USA, 
patients with schizophrenia occupy about 1/4 of all hospital beds 
and account for about 20% of all social security disability days.

Schizophrenia is more prevalent than Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, 
or multiple sclerosis.*

Prevalence of schizophrenia appears to be greater among lower 
socioeconomic classes in urban areas, perhaps because its disabling 
effects lead to unemployment and poverty. Similarly, a greater 
prevalence among single persons may reflect the effect of illness 
or illness precursors on social functioning. Prevalence is 
comparable among men and women. The peak age of onset is 18 to 25 
yr in men and 26 to 45 yr in women. However, onset in childhood, 
early adolescence, or late life is not uncommon (see Ch. 274).

.....................

*Symptoms of schizophrenia vary in type and severity. Generally 
they are categorized as positive or negative (deficit) symptoms. 
Positive symptoms are characterized by an excess or distortion of 
normal functions; negative symptoms, by diminution or loss of 
normal functions. Individual patients may have symptoms from one or 
both categories.*

*Positive symptoms can be further categorized as (1) delusions 
and hallucinations or (2) thought disorder and bizarre 
behavior.*

*Delusions and hallucinations are sometimes referred to as the 
psychotic dimension of schizophrenia.* Delusions are erroneous 
beliefs that usually involve misinterpreting experience. In 
persecutory delusions, the patient believes he is being tormented, 
followed, tricked, or spied on. In delusions of reference, the 
patient believes that passages from books, newspapers, song lyrics, 
or other environmental cues are directed at him. In delusions of 
thought withdrawal or thought insertion, the patient believes that 
others can read his mind, that his thoughts are being transmitted 
to others, or that thoughts and impulses are being imposed on him 
by outside forces. *Hallucinations may occur in any sensory modality 
(auditory, visual, olfactory, gustatory, or tactile), but auditory 
hallucinations are by far the most common and characteristic of 
schizophrenia. The patient may hear voices commenting on his 
behavior, conversing with one another, or making critical and 
abusive comments.*

*Thought disorder and bizarre behavior are termed the 
disorganized symptom cluster. Thought disorder involves 
disorganized thinking, evidenced primarily by speech that is 
rambling, shifts from one topic to another, and is 
non-goal-directed.

Speech can range from mildly disorganized to 
incoherent and incomprehensible. Bizarre behavior may include 
childlike silliness, agitation, and inappropriate appearance, 
hygiene, or conduct. Catatonic motor behavior is an extreme form of 
bizarre behavior that can include maintaining a rigid posture and 
resisting efforts to be moved or engaging in purposeless and 
unstimulated motor activity.*

*Negative (deficit) symptoms* include blunted affect, poverty 
of speech, anhedonia, and asociality. With blunted affect 
(flattening of emotions), the patient's face may appear immobile, 
with poor eye contact and lack of expressiveness. Poverty of speech 
refers to a diminution of thought reflected in decreased speech and 
terse replies to questions, creating the impression of inner 
emptiness. Anhedonia (diminished capacity to experience pleasure) 
may be reflected by a lack of interest in activities with 
substantial time spent in purposeless activity. Asociality refers 
to a lack of interest in relationships. Negative symptoms are often 
associated with a general loss of motivation and diminished sense 
of purpose and goals.

In some patients with schizophrenia, cognitive functioning 
declines, with impaired attention, abstract thinking, and problem 
solving. Severity of cognitive impairment is a major determinant of 
overall disability in these patients.

*Symptoms of schizophrenia typically impair the ability to 
function and are often severe enough to markedly interfere with 
work, social relations, and self-care. Unemployment, social 
isolation, deteriorated familial relationships, and diminished 
quality of life are common.* 
----------------------------------------------------
Dreamer's note: schizophrenia is then broken down into catagories, catatonic, paranoid, hebephrenic... and I forgot the rest, LOL.

This is a very seriuos and complicated illness. An individual with schizophrenia can have DP/DR symptoms. But someone with anxiety/DP do not have the dramatic symptoms noted above.

Homeskooled also made some good points I've now forgotten.

Uni, do what you need to do to get a proper diagnosis. A proper diagnosis is the key to finding the right treatment.

OK, I'm taking the week off, LOL.
L,
D 8)


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Jesus wept. Doctors eh ?

University girl....the *PRIMARY* symptom of schizophrenia is loss of reality testing, which you do not have. All forms has schizophrenia have this.

Reading your symptoms, I'm extremely dubious that your schizophrenic diagnosis is correct....rare or not. Anyway, labels over-lap to a certain degree.


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## Synapse (Aug 15, 2004)

As someone who was diagnosed as schizophrenic many years ago and accepted the diagnosis I can re-assure Uni Girl that she is very unlikely to be schizo. Pdocs only are able to make a definitive diagnosis of something like schizohrenia when someone has been assessed at their worst minus drugs in something like a controlled environment of a hospital ward. I don't think they have the skills to differentiate someone as being very mildly schizophrenic. You certainly wouldn't be in front of a PC communicating with other people and would withdraw into yourself gradually. HTH


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

A word about my reality testing...

Supposedly it's not "fully intact". Why you may ask? Well, part of the psychological testing I received involved me looking at ink blots and suggesting what they resembled. Yes, those ugly blobs on cards you've seen in the movies. It turns out a few of my answers were not commonly suggested and so this is interpreted as me having an odd slant on reality. Also, they told me there were some questions on the 530 word survey that I answered in a way most wouldn't again showing a slight problem in that area.

What else do they have on me...

I quit school, moved in with my dad, don't socialize now that I'm here and over my 4 yrs at university, my grades declined (slightly). They don't care about my explanations for each which are as follows. I quit school because I realized I had been pushing myself too hard and for too long having to deal with stress of school and being sick. I moved home to try to improve my health situation. I don't socialize because my friends are elsewhere. I do on the other hand go to rowing and yoga. My grades declined because, well, they couldn't get much higher. Also, I thought I should be easier on myself so I let them slip a bit.

It's all so ify. I would change docs if it was that easy. There are some positives about my doc. She really does want to help me and she has helped me apply from financial aid from the government. I wouldn't be hesitating about trying the anti-psych route if I wasn't so damn scared of the side effects.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Just thought I'd add this. There's a well known doc in my area who treats mental illnesses with large doses of vitamins. I have his book on schizophrenia. I am going to try his treatment suggestion which is starting off by taking 3 g vitamin C and 3 g vitamin B3 daily. According to him, it should be 1-3 months before I notice a change, if any. Yes, of course his treatment suggestions are based on research. He uses these vits to treat various mental illnesses. It's quite intersting. Thought it's worth a try, even if I'm not psychotic.


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## Synapse (Aug 15, 2004)

Al lot of what you write about moving out and grades declining was similar to my situation and I can identify at the early stages of my psychotic breakdown. I don't want to influence you too much because at this stage I was also vulnerable and open to others suggestions..but IF and that is a big IF you have the early signs and you failed to take your medication and it develops into a full blown episode you will look back with regret. The earlier it is treated the better the outcome. HTH


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2005)

Clearly, if I was TRULY well-psychoanalzed, I would just ignore this thread and say "hey, some doctors are idiots" and go off and water the plants or something. However, I can't let go. lol

Now listen up: A Rorshach Test is NOT something that can measure cognitive function. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. If your doctor truly said that, and it is not just a misunderstanding, you need to RUN right now to any other doctor and do not look back.

An Ink Blot "test" is NOT a "TEST" per se. It is a device that is used to measure emotional and/or regressive states - yes, extremely odd (or violent, sexual or disturbing) responses to the images do reflect a likely regressed ego state. PERIOD.

That is NOT psychosis. It is not schizophrenia. It MIGHT be. But it is not a diagnostic test. It's an INK Blot, for God's sake, lol

Those tests are designed to measure the emotional "stage" at which the person's ego is currently functioning. At my worst, I would have seen nothing but severed limbs in those images - grotesque violent and sexual images (kama sutra stuff). I was very very regressed and ANY "ambiguous" image would produce all kinds of sexual or violent thoughts in me.

Regression 
is
not
psychosis.

I am going to try to be mature now. and I am not going to reply to this thread for a few hours. LOL

UniGirl, you will do whatever you choose to do, but the doctors you are with are odd. "nuff said.

Peace,
Janine


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## g-funk (Aug 20, 2004)

I can't believe they use a test like that to reach that conclusion. I see faces/patterns in clouds, my toast, my carpet, the foam bath, on the wallpaper, on my skin and the grain of wood on a table. If I want to. And especially if I DON'T want to.

Everybody can see the face in the moon. After a while it becomes habit and a constant attempt to scare yourself witless with the most hideous imagination possible. Then we think we are mad. We know there is no face in the moon, but with psychosis, that moon is actually a man's face who's coming to get ya...
We all see the world differently but if you have psychosis you see it WELL differently from everyone else.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

The entire test took well over 3 hrs. It consisted of not only ink blots but tests on congnitive functioning, enotional functioning and personality. Like I said, part of testing involved a 576 word survey. Just thought I should add this so you didn't think the ink blots were the only part of the testing. Should I get into the results? Anyone curious?

Geez, this is the most action my "condition" has received during the last 10 years (with docs). I do hope this goes somewhere. Can you believe it took me 9 years to accept that my problem wasn't physical in nature?


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## maria (Oct 28, 2004)

well my very uneducated opinion is that those who know you only via internet can't give or rule out any diagnosis, and though you're doctors might be complete twats, of course anything's _possible_ - you might have some sort of psychotic condition or some "rare form of schitzophrenia". But I guess the trick here is whether your doctors are able to give you good treatment if they don't know what's going on. But then of course, you can get cured by treating the symptoms no matter what the diagnosis is. I'm not sure what's exactly wrong with me and my psych's probably not either, but it doesn't matter. You can call it anything but the basic thing is to get rid of it. And you've got the symptoms you got and you probably know them by now, the label doesn't change anything, unless you of course would be extremely ashamed of being called a schitzophrenic or something.


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## Monkeydust (Jan 12, 2005)

Unigirl.

Obviously, it's your choice whether to believe them or not. But I'll give you my viewpoint on how things are. As I see it, there's a number of important factors at play here:

1. You've had this for 10 years and not had any definite kind of psychotic break. This would have to be a very long prodromal phase.

2. You're completely aware of what's happening to you. You're in no sense "gone" like a "classic" schizophrenic might be.

3. You're symptoms, likewise, are not "classic" schizphrenia in the least. Although some might be consistent with that diagnosis, the general "fit" of them to schzophrenia is very tenuous.

4. Your docs seem to be at least somewhat dubious. Janine's remarks about their odd use of diagnostic tests is sufficient to attests to this.

5. You're generally able to function fairly well.

6. In the ten years, you haven't substantially and consistently declined - your symptoms haven't gradually got worse.

etc. etc.

The point here is that, when all these points and others are taken into account, schizophrenia seems *very unlikely*. Of course, we can't "rule out" the possibility - but it seems silly to pursue that avenue of treatment when the diagnosis for it is so uncertain.

I personally think you'll be better off with different doctors. I don't know your situation as well as you, though, so I can only offer my opinion.

Whatever you eventually choose to do, at least make sure you think about it carefully.

Take care,
Monkeydust.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Maria,

Thank you so much for this post. This is exactly how I feel as well. I am worried though because I know psychs generally believe symptoms fall into clusters which characterize disorders. They feel they need to label it before treating it. And how they treat it depends on what they label it.... This could compromise my treatment.


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