# Mini documentary about Adam Maier-Clayton by BBC



## REB




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## TDX

The truly bad thing is that, at least to my knowledge, doctors refused to give him opioids, because his pain was "not physical". This means he was denied a potentially effective treatment. Just like people with chronic fatigue syndrome and other so-called somatoform disorders me may be one of the many victims of psychosomatics.


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## Billy D.P.

Man, at least he's making an impact, which is what he wanted. Does anybody know what kind of DP symptoms he was battling? I know he came here and commented on some threads but the video above never mentions anything about DP, which is unfortunate of course.


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## eddy1886

TDX said:


> The truly bad thing is that, at least to my knowledge, doctors refused to give him opioids, because his pain was "not physical". This means he was denied a potentially effective treatment. Just like people with chronic fatigue syndrome and other so-called somatoform disorders me may be one of the many victims of psychosomatics.


Welcome to the dark ages world that is mental health care....This reminds me of the time the top shrink in the local mental health service sent me away telling me "I wasnt sick enough to be considered for regular treatment" ..... I have since discharged myself completely from the mental health service....I actually know people who have been waiting for 4 months to get mental health service appointments...

I have also watched 3 of my own soccer teammates commit suicide within an 18 month period....All in their late twenties....All off the same team...

Mental illhealth of all kinds is now an epidemic worldwide and as far as I can see and from my own personal experiences it is being washed under the carpet by governments, doctors and health care systems....


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## TDX

> Man, at least he's making an impact, which is what he wanted. Does anybody know what kind of DP symptoms he was battling? I know he came here and commented on some threads but the video above never mentions anything about DP, which is unfortunate of course.


He had cannabis-induced depersonalization disorder.


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## TDX

> He only tried 2 things according to his FB page; therapy & medication. Sure, he tried a lot of different meds, & different kinds of therapy, but that's still only 2 things imho. What about TMS, nerve blocks, heavy metal detoxes, etc? How about trouble shooting for various mineral deficiencies, getting tested for Lymes Disease, treating for gut dysbiosis, & the plethora of other things that are known to account for mental health issues in some minorities?


I don't know how much was done in terms of diagnosis for Adam, but I know that he visisted more than 10 doctors. Furthermore he was not dumb and so I think that he likely exausted all diagnostic options he could get.

I also don't agree that psychotherapy and medication are only 2 things. For example drugs with different mechanisms of action cannot reasonably be regarded as one treatment. It also wasn't the problem that he was unwilling to try every treatment as he tried many medications and also psychotherapeutic treatments. He even underwent psychoanalysis.

It's reasonable to assume that he would have tried any treatment that makes at least a minimum of sense. He just did not have access to them. In my opinion there were a few possibilities left like strong opioids about which I informed him 2 weeks before his death. But I suppose that he realized that the chance to find a doctor who does not discriminate against patients with alleged somatoform disorders is slim and given that his pain was probably caused by some kind of brain dysfunction the chance of treatment-resistance was still high. I think if I would have been in his place I might have decided equally.



> My point is this; we need to* TRY EVERYTHING POSSIBLE* before we give up & decide to kill ourselves.


While I think that in theory this is correct, it is obviously not necessarily applicable in the real world. For example most people on this forum would surely be willing try TMS or other experimental treatments, but they have no chance to get them.


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## Amina_x

I'm not sure what to say, but I want to say something. Adam never talked about the physical pain and when we chatted with him I don't remember him mentioning it even once.


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## freezeup

a few days ago one of the top comments on the video was "hes so attractive". I think Adam would have lol'd.


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## nathan69

my main fear is I get what he had when I get older :sad:


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## fighterS

so we are debating on assisted-dying advocacy rather than shifting our attention to find treatment/cure for mental health disorders? How sad...what the fuck is wrong with this world!?!? They are supposed to invest more than ever on brain research for gods' sake!!! Also, not to diminish his own primary disorder's value, but DP/DR is incredibly urgent and who knows how many people go without proper diagnosis, or get a diagnosis of simple depression/anxiety rather than DP/DR. (sorry I was just focusing on the DP side of the discussion when I said this, but to me all mental disorders needs to be treated as soon as possible as they are all becoming such widespread,urgent issues now) DP/DR is one of the veryyyy urgent ones though.


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## eddy1886

I personally believe that if someone is in that much pain (mentally) and cannot find a way out that they should be allowed to switch themselves off gently, peacefully and quietly...

I believe assisted suicide should be available and it is a personal choice...

The same goes for abortion etc (but im not even gonna go there before the do-gooders jump in)

Anyway when a persons quality of life is so bad and there is no relief from the suffering they should be allowed to choose for themselves...

Do we not live in the western world where we are supposed to have choice????


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## thanksforbeingalive

TDX said:


> He had cannabis-induced depersonalization disorder.


he was succesfully recovered from DP/DR, but his physical pain was not treated((


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## TDX

> he was succesfully recovered from DP/DR, but his physical pain was not treated((


Really? I never heard him saying that he recovered from depersonalization. But I also didn't watch all his Facebook videos, so I might have missed it.


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## bouquet

here we go on another aspect of the discussion.. assisted suicide is already happening in some parts of the world, no?

and where did it say he didn't do the possible thing to get rid of the misery and pain?


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## TDX

> and where did it say he didn't do the possible thing to get rid of the misery and pain?


I talked to him. There were a few chances left. For example he was denied opioids. In my opinion Buprenorphine would have been an interesting choice, because there is some evidence that it could also have helped with his mental health problems. Another idea by me was the drug Ziconotid. It is used for pain that is refractory to opioids and it might help against central pain. Both of these drugs are approved to treat chronic pain. The doctors should haven given him access to both of these treatments.


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## Broken

Did he ever try marijuana or illegal drugs? I mean it can work miracles for some but may not have helped.. (especially as marijuana induced dp for him so may have been a bad call). if someone is literally on the edge like that and they're guna do it, as he was clearly so close to. Weed or shrooms or mdma could have done SOMETHING. Just hard to know if it was genetic or psychosomatic, but given his history of dp it may well be psychosomatic. Not to say that doesn't make it any more REAL, but attempting a large dose of shrooms to reboot the brain may have helped him


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## thanksforbeingalive

TDX said:


> Really? I never heard him saying that he recovered from depersonalization. But I also didn't watch all his Facebook videos, so I might have missed it.


Em, i saw his last videos, his emotional expressions, laught, tears, emotional attachment to camera, Of course maybe his was dp free only for his camera sessions, i don't know, but i am sure at one, person with dp could not be so emotional as he was on videos, maybe i do not know something about DP


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## TDX

> Did he ever try marijuana or illegal drugs? I mean it can work miracles for some but may not have helped.. (especially as marijuana induced dp for him so may have been a bad call).


He got depersonalization disorder from Cannabis, so in his case it was contraindicated. Ketamine seems sometimes to be used for chronic pain and he tried it, but the only thing it did, was to worsen his depersonalization temporarily.



> Weed or shrooms or mdma could have done SOMETHING.


If Cannabis induced depersonalization disorder for him, I doubt that hallucinogens and MDMA would have been safe. Do they actually work against pain?



> Just hard to know if it was genetic or psychosomatic, but given his history of dp it may well be psychosomatic.


The more I read about psychosomatics, the more I doubt that most of it isn't little more then outright quackery. Even if psychsomatic pain exists and he had it, I don't see this as a reason for denying him drugs against pain. Psychosomatic pain must have correlates in the brain that correspond to the ones of non-psychosomatic pain. Opioids act in the brain, so why shouldn't they be indicated for psychosomatic pain? On the other hand I doubt that there is serious evidence for psychotherapy in the treatment of psychosomatic pain.



> Not to say that doesn't make it any more REAL, but attempting a large dose of shrooms to reboot the brain may have helped him


Well, he was determined to kill himself anyway, so from this point of view it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway if a hallucinogen fucked him even more up. For this reason I also suggested Electroconvulsive therapy if the drugs I mentioned did not work as there is some (mostly anecdotal) evidence for it helping against various chronic pain syndromes.



> Em, i saw his last videos, his emotional expressions, laught, tears, emotional attachment to camera, Of course maybe his was dp free only for his camera sessions, i don't know, but i am sure at one, person with dp could not be so emotional as he was on videos, maybe i do not know something about DP


Emotional numbness in depersonalization disorder is much less visible than in other mental disorders. Many depersonalized people look quite normal, despite being numb. It's also possible that he didn't have emotional numbness. Some people have depersonalization disorder without emotional numbness.


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## thanksforbeingalive

I suppose depersonalization without numb is not depersonalization, he trully knew himself, anyway he killed himself not because of DP, but because of pain, sad story.


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## bouquet

TDX said:


> I talked to him. There were a few chances left. For example he was denied opioids. In my opinion Buprenorphine would have been an interesting choice, because there is some evidence that it could also have helped with his mental health problems. Another idea by me was the drug Ziconotid. It is used for pain that is refractory to opioids and it might help against central pain. Both of these drugs are approved to treat chronic pain. The doctors should haven given him access to both of these treatments.


Thank you very much for the response. And why is it that he was denied opioids you think, maybe the doctors thought they may make it worse for him or so?

You said you talked to him at the time...did you also share your opinions with him at that time may I ask, regarding electroconvulsive therapy, opioids? Was there really no hope to manage the pain? Not that it matters much really..but still..:/

Also his mental health condition...Does this particular one go under 'rare disorders' or is it a common psychiatric condition? It is such a tragic case I don't know what to say...poor young man...



Broken said:


> Did he ever try marijuana or illegal drugs? I mean it can work miracles for some but may not have helped.. (especially as marijuana induced dp for him so may have been a bad call). if someone is literally on the edge like that and they're guna do it, as he was clearly so close to. Weed or shrooms or mdma could have done SOMETHING. Just hard to know if it was genetic or psychosomatic, but given his history of dp it may well be psychosomatic. Not to say that doesn't make it any more REAL, but attempting a large dose of shrooms to reboot the brain may have helped him


They are still conducting research as to whether weed works for chronic pain or not. Though we may not fully know how it effects an already sensitive, developing brain with another serious condition like his, perhaps weed works on epilepsy but not on this particular condition? Time will tell, i guess. As to the other drugs, I'm 100% sure that they also have benefits for our health but because they are all classified as illegal...there is probably not enough research? I guess at least. All drugs should be legal, all, all of them, I believe it will happen some day soon. I also can't wait for more in depth marijuana research! Drugs causing or triggering depersonalization will certainly pave the way to a cure some day, it is really important to understand the changing brain mechanism through them, that's why they need be legal to pursue more research. Though unfortunately there is a lot of people out there shouting in the streets no no don't poison our kids blah blah who still can't see that because they are blind to see that. But it will change soon. Hopefully his condition can also be cured at some point, it is really sad..


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## TDX

> And why is it that he was denied opioids you think, maybe the doctors thought they may make it worse for him or so?


No. He told me the sole reason was that his pain was deemed to be "not physical" by the doctors.


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