# Pondering the expanse of the universe



## solboard (Jul 8, 2006)

Has anyone thought of space? The questions arise such as: What is beyond the universe. What else is there? Is existence just planetary habitation surrounded by an infinite void?

When I'm anxious and think about the universe (or vice versa) I ask those questions and suddenly I'm almost panicking at the thought of "What is beyond, or what encompasses the universe?" Once, I almost felt like if I were to continue to think about it, and feed the anxiety with more fear, I would go insane. Of course, it never happened.

I guess that's why even "normal" people have that adage: "Don't think about space or you'll go nuts!"


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## Mr. Fly (Jun 25, 2007)

Sometimes I do...especially about theories of the universe as having a definite shape or size...I mean, if the universe is everything how can it have a shape or a size? It has to have a shape or size IN something...and so forth. Lately I've just accepted the fact that I'll probably never learn what space and the universe is really all about, and to not concern myself with it.

But yeah, it can be a bit maddening. Quantum physics is also pretty crazy, so I try not to think about a lot either.


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## none (Dec 29, 2005)

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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Ahh I think about this often. THese questions are so disturbing because even the most brilliant of humans have never been able to do anything but speculate on it.

In modern cosmology I think there are two main hypothesis.

Some people believe in the big bang, which says the universe started from a infitesimally small and dense point. It exploded one day and has been expanding outwards ever since. Experimentation has proved the expansion of the universe is accelerating.

Some people also believe that the gravitational pull of the universe is enough to one day reverse it's acceleration, and it will shrink back to the small point again. These people believe in the cyclicle universe theory, and are always talking about "Branes" and other confusing things.

Of course even these theories on the cutting edge of science still leave alot to be desired. perhaps a humans mind is not ever going to be capable of really grasping the answers the such questions.


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## solboard (Jul 8, 2006)

The visible universe is one tenth of a percent of the "entire" universe. The other part(s) is/are a multidimensional, non-physical universe. And that non-physical universe is not inaccessible. We are _able_ to project to these other dimensions or non-physical universes.

Some may know what I am speaking of and know the validity of my last statement, but I will not disclose any further information.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

solboard said:


> The visible universe is one tenth of a percent of the "entire" universe. The other part(s) is/are a multidimensional, non-physical universe. And that non-physical universe is not inaccessible. We are _able_ to project to these other dimensions or non-physical universes.
> 
> Some may know what I am speaking of and know the validity of my last statement, but I will not disclose any further information.


 From what i know only 4% of the universe can be seen, the rest is "dark energy" and "dark matter." String theory also predicts more then the usual 4 space time dimensions, but it sounds like you are getting string theory and dark energy/matter confused.

why cant you "disclose anymore information"? Are we not worthy or something??


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## none (Dec 29, 2005)

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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Would any of you want to go to space?


 :shock:

I thought thats where I was already??

LOL

Everyone is always asking me when I am going to come back from space.


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## none (Dec 29, 2005)

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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Just something to think about.

Physicists have been trying to come up with a grand unified theory of everything for a very long time now. Even Einstein thought a lot about the idea himself. Now it is the year 2007 and a grand unified theory of everything is still just wishful thinking.

To add onto that, it is good to note what a theory is actually.

In physics a theory these days is almost becoming nothing more then a philosophical idea. But even though that is the case, we still do not even have a basic theory for the universe!

I find this to be very interesting considering the subject of religion.

The best book I have read about the universe I think is probably Stephen Hawking's "A brief history of time"

I noticed after reading that book that most of what Physicists know about the universe is mostly speculation. They have proven some of their theories over the years and dis-proven many theories, but the majority of physics seems to still be unprovable theory. That means that what we know about the universe is really a crossover between Physics facts and Philosophy.

I am not sure what Stephen Hawking would say about that but I don't think he would be to upset with me making a connection between Physics and Philosophy. There are many people even among his own ranks that have made that connection many times.

The simple fact is that we just do not know for sure how the universe works. We only know parts of the story but it seems to me that humans will never fully understand all there is to know about this universe we live in. It is just beyond our power to fully understand.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

That is not entirely true lost one.

First of all, a theory is more then just a philosophical idea. I think i showed you the definition of it in another thread where you tried to call evolution "just a thoery." If you are going to bring attention to what a theory *actually* is, you should give a definition. Here is one...

_
In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. _

A theory has to be able to undergo rigorous testing and still hold true. That is why many physicists have a problem with string "theory", because as of now there is no way to test its validity.

science isn't quite as ignorant as you are making it out to be, but i will agree there is still lots to learn and some we may not have the capacity to ever learn.

And i dont think i would ever want to goto space. Probly be a 24/7 panic attack for me :wink:


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## ihavemessedupdreams (Apr 19, 2007)

I never question this kind of stuff I dont know why of course all get those thoughts out of nowhere like wow man cant I belive im here and this is the world am I dreaming or what? but thats normal everyone gets that but it only lasts for like less then a minute. BUT I dont take anything seriously one member on this board said "Man has got into a spaceship and actully left this planet" with dp my answer to these kinds of things is SO WHAT but really thats pretty incredible to bad I cant see it like that


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

I Dont think that we will ever KNOW how the universe came to exist or even the fact of how space exists, can you even comprehend the concept of nothingness cause i cant? I have no idea what you are talking about when you mention dark matter or dark energy and that only 4% of the universe is visible, this sounds like complete b.s. to me, the universe is so vast how can someone make a statement like that, i would still like to hear more about this idea though. Think about how large the universe is, now think about it going on for infinity, or think about it just abruptly stopping, neither of these concepts make any logical sense at all, then again we are here some how some way right? so there is an explanation there to be found, but definitely not by us, we have a certain way of thinking, a pattern of thinking as humans-as lifeforms, thinking just doesnt fit in with the concept of the universe, it just cant be used. the big bang theory explains nothing to me besides the creation of our solar system, it doesnt explain how the universe originated, where did that spec of matter come from? Quantum physics says something like you dont have anything until you have something type of jargon correct? well that soundsl ike complete bullshit to me. A theory exists to explain a fact, for example:Fact OF gravity- there exists this force or attraction called gravity that holds us to the ground-this is a fact because we arent floating around obviously, A theory FOR gravity is that every body has an overall charge causing an attraction due to the fact that opposite charges attract. I dont have much of a point here i guess, and i would also like to add my ass is speaking for me for most of this post. Discussions like these used to freak me the fuck out, but now i have learned to accept that im just not smart enough to figure it out but that there is some answer out there cause we are living proof. I envy those who have blind faith in god.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Ok here is a little more about dark matter.

We really have no fucking clue what it is. We call it dark matter as a way to attest to our own ignorance of it. We cannot see it because it does not emit or reflect electromagnetic waves (light is one of these waves). So we have to use other ways to detect it, which really shows how limited human perception is.

We think it exists by observing the rotation of glaxies. Scientists have seen stars in galaxies orbiting much faster then they should be due to only gravity. So the only explanation is that the theory of gravity does not apply universally, or there is this invisible dark matter which has gravitational pull. I guess right not they are deciding to persue the latter.

"I envy those who have blind faith in god."

Ha me too, i couldnt have said it any better myself. Lucky bastards.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> A theory has to be able to undergo rigorous testing and still hold true.


Yes I know that is what a theory is supposed to be (although the way you worded that is a little off). It is supposed to be an *idea/model* that is testable, an idea that can be proven wrong. Most of the theories that scientist come up with are in fact eventually proven wrong. Science is a trial and error process.



> That is why many physicists have a problem with string "theory", because as of now there is no way to test its validity.


You are making my own point for me.

LOL.

I was talking about physics. "String Theory" is a theory of physics. That was my point. By making up theories like "String Theory", physics is crossing the line between science and philosophy. Well not exactly crossing the line but they are blurring the line a very great deal.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Oh yeahhhh, i learned about dark matter in school for a minute, i completely forgot about it


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> "I envy those who have blind faith in god."


I find it ironic that you brought up God in a post about Dark Matter. Not just God but "blind faith" in god.

LOL.

It's just funny if you think about it.

"Dark Matter" "God"

You can not see either of those things. What would make one more believable then the other?

Probably just the effects that "Dark Matter" or "God" would have on other things in the universe.

In the same way that a physicist would study gravity to understand "Dark Matter" a true Christian studies the bible to understand "God"

By the way AllmindnoBrain, Dark Matter is a pretty well accepted idea among physicist these days.

They even think they have found proof to back up the idea. Since it is not a visible object though, many people will probably always find it very hard to believe in.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

String theory is the one topic where i think "theory" is being used loosely. It seemed like you were trying to discredit the big bang theory as being just philosophy, but there is actually much experimentation to back it up.

Even though dark matter connot be seen, we can observe the effects of its gravitational pull. I dont see any way to observe the effects of god. Unless god is dark matter. I guess it all depends on what you think god is.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> String theory is the one topic where i think "theory" is being used loosely. It seemed like you were trying to discredit the big bang theory as being just philosophy, but there is actually much experimentation to back it up.


No actually String theory is exactly what I was thinking about. There are many other theories like that though. And even though the Big Bang is testable in some ways, it is still a bit different from other theories in science.
It is testable but I think it would be impossible to prove wrong simply because the theory could be changed to adapt to any "error" that comes up to disprove it. The only thing that makes it really look good is the background radiation in the universe. The finding of that had nothing to do with any test toward the theory though.

It was actually an accident that they found the background radiation. That radiation is seen as proof of the big bang theory but I don't really view it as proof, I just view it as good evidence that backs up the theory. Proof is a big word.

I don't have anything against science or the big bang theory. 
It is just obvious to me after reading some books on physics that there are a lot of ideas and theories in physics right now that really blur the lines between physics and philosophy. Some theories actually have dozens of different theories within themselves so that all the "errors" can be explained. I think string theory has like over a dozen sub theories itself right now. All of them are totally different and make the whole theory of Strings a totally different theory depending upon what sub theory you apply to the math. It is really kind of bizarre.



> I dont see any way to observe the effects of god.


Yes I understand. And many people would not be able to understand the idea of dark matter also. If dark matter is explained to someone then the idea becomes more believable and the person will understand how the effects could be observed. This is the same with God. If you want to observe the effects of God then you will have to search for those effects and you will have to look toward God in order to see his effects on this universe.

If God was turned into a theory then I could provide you with thousands of "tests" that have shown that theory to hold up under the pressure. It's these thousands of "tests" or "pieces of evidence" that Jesus followers focus on in order to better understand who God is.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Yeah i guess thats kind of funny, not laughable funny but i get it. I dont know enough about dark matter to establish an opinion on it, but it seems like this is a very recent observation made by physicists so I wouldnt be surprised if they come up with 10 more theories from now explaining this gravitational phenomenon. Do you know any books or papers i could read on it? That is a very interesting comparison u made between studying science and studying religion i must say, ive never thought of religion in that way. This dark matter would explain only one phenomenon that occurs in our universe, but God explains everything and anything, and i cant comprehend the concept of there being a god, dark matter makes sense to me. Question: lets say there is a god, does this mean he is magical as in he doesnt follow the laws of science? IYO of course. Does it erk anyone that we are conscious beings, that fucking freaks me out, just the fact that im conscious and self-aware, im bugginnnnnnnnn, ill be ok.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

lostone, i must say, you are a worthy opponent for a debate any day. 

I can tell u know your stuff for the most part (not that i am admitting defeat :wink: )

Dont take this the wrong way, but i usually associate jesus followers with low intelligence and no ability to use logic. YOu don't seem to fit this stereotype though, so i guess i have alot to learn still.

----- anyway------

I just finished reading a book called "The Tao of Physics"
Basically the book makes a connection between the discoveries made in modern physics to ancient mysticism. It is saying that it took the western world several millenium to reach the same conclusions the eastern world reached way back. Altough the difference is now we have mathematics to back up our claim, which is a vital part of the puzzle.

Interesting stuff, and it kind of goes along with what you are talking about lostone


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

LOSTONE said:


> It was actually an accident that they found the background radiation. That radiation is seen as proof of the big bang theory but I don't really view it as proof, I just view it as good evidence that backs up the theory. Proof is a big word.


I agree. In fact, i dont think real proof for anything exists in the physical world. The only place we can have 100% proof is in the man-made world of mathematics.


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## solboard (Jul 8, 2006)

Earlier in the post I had said something about projection to other dimensions or environments of the universe.

I didn't want to disclose any further information because some may know what I meant by _projection_.

Well, here is what I meant: We can consciously perceive other dimensions of the universe that we are not able to see with our physical bodies. I'm talking about out-of-body experiences or astral projection. We can consciously perceive other environments of our universe not visible to out physical eyes.

I know OBEs and astral projection is real. I don't want to go in depth, because that would require lots of typing, but I urge anyone interested in this subject to pickup a copy of an excellent book on the subject: Adventures Beyond the Body by William Buhlman. You can probably find it in your local library or can order it new from Amazon for about $10.00.

Through Buhlman's own experience in decades of induced out-of-body experiences and through others', he put together one of the most definitive books on OBEs and our reality (human consciousness). His theory of the universe--supported today by brilliant minds in quantum mechanics--is the most logical explanation.

Anyone who fully experiences a conscious OBE will shake even the most stubborn atheist from his beliefs. Buhlman himself was an agnostic before he had a spontaneous OBE. Since then his entire outlook on existence has dramatically changed.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

solboard There is so much I could say in reply to your post.

I think I will just comment on the OBE because trying to explain the physics behind the idea of other universes and dimensions can get very complicated. 
The only thing I will say about the dimensions is that they are all part of the theories that are related with string theory and some others. Other dimensions were made up in order to explain some of the math errors that people were running into in other theories such as string theory. So the theory of other dimensions is basically a theory within a theory.

There is some evidence that seems to back up the idea though. Scientist have known for a long time that particles sometimes just vanish and then reappear for no reason. Also it has been proven that the exact same photon is able to exist in two places at the same time!

The common idea of other dimensions is that they are flat like. They are way to small and smashed for us to be able to interact with. They only seem to have an effect upon the quantum level of things but when you get up to about the size of an atom then those other dimensions lose their impact on things because they are two small to interact with this universe. It is very hard for me to explain it in a way to understand it well. The theory does help a great deal to support other theories in physics though and I don't think the idea is going to go away. It is very possible that there were other dimensions created at the creation of our universe that are just like the 3 dimensions of space we know but these dimensions got smashed down so that we are unable to notice them unless we are trying to work out the math of quantum mechanics. The problem with quantum mechanics right now though is that much of what we know about quantum mechanics seems to conflict with other branches of science. This is why they want to come up with a unified theory of everything. So they can bridge the gap.

Ok I won't talk about that any deeper because I will make my own head start to spin. LOL.

I could go on to talk about the theory of other universes but thats way to complicated.

Anyway the OBE's I do not think really prove God or anything else for that matter. I have had some very serious and messed up OBE's when I was abusing drugs years ago. Those OBE's did not prove to me that God existed but they did shake up everything that I once believed in. I personally don't think that an OBE has anything to do with slipping into other universes or your soul leaving your body or anything like that. There are a lot of different ideas that people come up with to explain the feeling but the fact is that the OBE is 100% in the mind. It is simply perception that your "self" is not tied down with the body that you control. 
I have been able to understand OBE's fairly well now because I would go literally for months feeling like I was having an OBE!

The fact is that the entire time that you feel you are having an OBE, you are in reality right where you have always been. Your thoughts are in your brain here on planet earth. There is no other part of you that can leave your body and come back. The entire being of who you are is simply a collection of all that is taking place in your brain. I think that this is something science has proven to be quite true. Even your dreams can be tracked in your brain so that a scientist would be able to have a good idea of what you are dreaming about just by looking at a scan of your brain activity.

I understand why people get all worked up about the feeling. It is very amazing and personally for me it did blow away any preconceived ideas that I had about myself up till that point.

I could go on and on talking about this but it is really simple actually. If your brain shuts down then you would no longer exist. All that you are, and every aspect of "your identity" is located some place in your brain. There is no way that you can leave your body literally and then go back into it. Unless some higher power gets involved somehow. We simply are what we are. The experience of OBE's is simply a perception, it is an experience that is perceived inside of the brain.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I agree. In fact, i dont think real proof for anything exists in the physical world. The only place we can have 100% proof is in the man-made world of mathematics.


Yes well if you want to get philosophical with me then I would argue that even man made mathematics is not 100% provable.

Actually it has been proven that mathematics does break down in places such as in a singularity. Actually all the known laws of the universe break down in a singularity and Math is actually what has taken us to the idea of such a place.

But in philosophy there is really no way to feel that there is proof for anything other then the simple unavoidable truth that "I think therefor I am". Everything else requires some faith. Now how much faith something takes to believe in really depends on what that thing is. "Dark Matter" for example takes a little more faith then lets say your own human body.

IN philosophy you can not really prove anything other then your own personal existence. It is a slight possibility that math is a figment of your imagination. It is also possible that all the other people on earth that you see each day are not actually real but they are all just part of a dream that you are experiencing.

So faith is needed for just about everything that we call reality. "Blind faith" is when faith is put into something with out needing anything more then just simply the idea. It is blind because there is nothing that backs up the faith. There is only the idea and many people put faith into ideas all the time without finding anything at all in this reality to back up that faith.

Faith in my God is not blind by the way. As I said before, there is a very great deal of evidence in reality that backs up my beliefs. You will not find this evidence by looking away from it though.

Faith in anything here is built up by searching out the proof for the belief. The more proof you find in reality to back up your belief then the more faith you will have in the belief. This goes for evolution theory just as well as the belief in God, and also just about everything else in reality. Most of reality is never questioned by most minds because it is all simply taken for granted that what appears to the eyes is in fact a reality.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Dont take this the wrong way, but i usually associate jesus followers with low intelligence and no ability to use logic. YOu don't seem to fit this stereotype though, so i guess i have alot to learn still.


Don't worry, I understand why you said that.

And I myself would say that most of the people in this world that say they are following Jesus are only displaying "blind faith". And they are not proving up to be true followers of Jesus but only making a mockery out of him.

It is my personal belief that the only religion that is teaching the truth about God is the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Most all Jehovah's Witnesses know exactly what they are talking about when it comes to the bible or other subjects relating to the bible.

If you talk to the Pope then you might not get very clear answers about what the bible teaches but if you talk to any Jehovah's Witness about the bible then you should not be very confused at all about what the bible actually says about things.

The reason I may not seem to fit into the same category as some other so called Christians, is because I have obtained much of my knowledge about things from the Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah's Witnesses goto 5 meetings a week to seriously study the bible and other topics related to the bible. Often the subject of science comes up and so most Jehovah's Witnesses know a pretty good basic knowledge of what is going on in science. They also have many books that they give out for free to anyone that wants to learn more. And they publish a Watchtower magazine that is available to just about the entire planet every two weeks. They also have an Awake magazine published that is available to basically the entire planet once a month. The Watchtower deals mostly with bible teachings but you will find a great deal of scientific data in the Awake magazine.

The focus of my religion is to educate people about the bible and about other things relating to the bible.

I personally find it very refreshing because it seems that many other religions like to make things very confusing for people to understand.

Brandon I am different for a reason. It has taken me a great deal of effort for me to get where I now am, and rather then wanting to always boast about what I have been through I usually just want to look forward and keep fighting to learn more and understand God better. 
And I know that getting accurate knowledge is the best way for me to progress with my relationship with God. So since God is so important to me and accurate knowledge is important to my relationship with God, I view it as vital to study these kinds of subjects so that my faith is not simply a "blind faith"

Maybe I have somehow misplaced my faith but the point is that I never allow myself to stop learning, especially when it comes to the subject of God.

So maybe my faith is wrong somehow, but I am doing my very best and putting in all my effort in order to find the truth about things. I think that most Jehovah's Witnesses can say the same thing about themselves.

I personally believe that you can't really actually find out about who God really is if you are giving him anything less then your best efforts. Who would be more deserving of our attention then the creator of the universe? No matter what your belief is, I think the subject about God or the subject about where we come from is the most important subject in our lives.

Sorry I don't have time to check over these posts for errors because a tornado is hitting my house right now. I gotta shut this computer off and go downstairs. 
:shock:


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> lets say there is a god, does this mean he is magical as in he doesnt follow the laws of science?


AllmindnoBrain why would God go against his own laws?

LOL.

What it meas to believe in God is to understand that he is the creator of the laws of science. The laws of motion, the laws of gravity, the laws of the strong and weak atomic forces and electromagnetism are all laws that were set up by God for our benefit. If any one of those laws were changed even a little then life would not be possible. The order and exact setting of these laws is really amazing.

The bible does say that God is all powerful but it is not the view of my religion that God is some kind of magician. He also does not go around creating paradoxes all over the universe. For example. God is not able to do two conflicting things at the same time. He can not force humans to do things and make our choices for us and then still give us the ability to have free will. Either we have free will or we don't. We can't have free will and at the same time not have free will. That is going beyond the realm of possibility. God is all powerful in a relative sense, in that he obtains all the power that there is. He is able to do with it as he pleases. But God is not able to go against the realm of possibility.

This is why human suffering is understandable. We have free will. We use our free will to go against God then God can not prevent the repercussions of our actions. This is why Jesus death was needed in order to save any of us. It is God's law that anyone who sins against him be put to death. God is not able to enforce that law at the same time he is breaking it. So even though God has all the power, it does not mean he is controlling every aspect and detail of the universe all the time, it also does not mean he can break past the realm of possibility and do things that are not even logical.

God is not breaking laws of Science. He is the one that formed them in the first place. He simple knows how to use those laws much better then we do and so something that seems impossible for us can actually be a very simple thing for God to do.

That is my view of God and that is what the bible teaches about God.

AllmindnoBrain if you want to learn more about physics then I would suggest watching the films from PBS called stephen hawking's universe.

Also watch the "Elegant Universe" from "Nova" "PBS"
You may be able to download these vie P2P if you look around.

Stephen Hawking also wrote a very good book about physics called "A brief history of time" that is probably the best book to buy if you want to know more about physics and the universe from a scientific standpoint. I am not really aware of any book or anything that focuses totally on the subject of "dark matter" but you will learn more about "dark matter" if you watch those films and read Hawking's book that I noted above.



Oh and my house is still here and I am still alive by the way.
The tornado was a false alarm.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

This is for you Brandon

This is just to show you that you do not have to be retarded to believe in God.

This is from a NASA Nuclear Scientist who is also a Jehovah's Witness.
He talks here about why he believes in God.

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/200 ... cle_01.htm

There are other scientists that are Jehovah's Witnesses who have wrote about their beliefs before. Some of them actually say that science is what helped lead them to their belief in God.

And about that book "The Tao of Physics", I have not read that or even heard of it before. I am guessing that it links Physics with Taoism in some ways. My own beliefs are mostly all in what the bible teaches. I think it is good to note however that there are a great deal of teachings in the bible that have taken science almost 2,000 years to catch up with. One example of this is simply God's laws to the Israelites regarding basic sanitation. Science did not fully catch up with those laws and realize their full benefits until about the 1960's when doctors realized that contact with dead people can spread diseases. Also another example is the bible teaching that the world is round and not flat. This is another teaching that took 2,000 years for science to catch up with. Isaiah spoke of the world as being round long before Jesus was even born.

These are some of the reasons that studying science actually only brings me closer to God.

I personally don't want to get into the teachings of Taoism though because I already am fully set in my beliefs in the bible. I spent many years doubting the bible and looking into different teachings with an open mind but I don't do that anymore. I believe there are a lot of good and bad ideas out there in the world but my belief about what is the real truth is very set already. So I don't take any other religious teachings very seriously anymore. I do still for the most part take science seriously though. Science is mostly just a learning process of trial and error, as long as that is what science remains to be then I will continue to take science seriously. When science crosses the line and starts teaching philosophy as facts then I stop taking science seriously. There are a lot of philosophies among many scientists and it is not really their philosophies that interest me. I believe that the scientific process is a pretty good one that we have but it is obvious that the philosophies of men often lead science down the wrong path. This even happened to Einstein, it is well known now that Einstein wasted the last years of his life by looking into theories that had no future. He simply got stuck in his wrong philosophies and it made it impossible for him to see the truth. So science does have many errors. It is trial and error. I would never place all my trust in science, I do however take it seriously for the most part.

Sorry.

I get carried away sometimes.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

LOSTONE said:


> Yes well if you want to get philosophical with me then I would argue that even man made mathematics is not 100% provable.
> 
> Actually it has been proven that mathematics does break down in places such as in a singularity. Actually all the known laws of the universe break down in a singularity and Math is actually what has taken us to the idea of such a place.
> 
> But in philosophy there is really no way to feel that there is proof for anything other then the simple unavoidable truth that "I think therefor I am". Everything else requires some faith. Now how much faith something takes to believe in really depends on what that thing is. "Dark Matter" for example takes a little more faith then lets say your own human body.


All mathematical systems starts off with a set of axioms (these are similar to unavoidable truths) and everything else in mathematics is direclty provable through using these axioms. So If the axioms are correct, then everything that follows has to be correct. The axioms are usually very simple statements such as the cummutative rule of addition which says

a+b=b+a

everything has to be provable from these axioms, that is just the nature of mathematics.

Math does not break down when dealing with a singularity. In a singularity, certain quantites become infinite. Math has very efficient ways of dealing with the concept of infinity, and can deal with these singularities just fine. It is only human perception that fails to grasp a singularity.

I like that you used descartes quote, i have always liked that. I believe from his first simple truth which you mentioned, he went on to prove all of existance. I think his next truth to follow that was "If i exist, then there must be a god." (EDIT: i have just been reading up on this and many sources claim descartes only included a "proof" of god in his work to avoid prosecution by the church, as Galileo was prosecuted only 4 years earlier.)

I have also read criticism of "I think, Therefore I am." He is blindly assuming the premise "All things that have the property of thinking must have the property of existance" So really any philosophical argument cannot be proven, even the most basic.

I do stand by that all math can be proven as a direct result of the axiomatic system one is working in.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I understand what you said about math.

I think you may have missed my point a little though.

My point is that this entire reality that we all believe in, may in fact be only a dream. Only a false figment of our minds. I have even had the idea about the possibility that I am God and that everything else is only my imagination.

Really we can not step outside of this universe or this reality that we are in and for that reason there is no way we can really prove anything other then the fact that we are experiencing this reality.

Anyway, my faith is not shaky about reality as it once was. I have just come to the realization that it is possible to believe just about anything because almost everything in existence takes some faith to believe in.

When I walk outside of my bedroom door in a few moments, it will take a bit of faith to believe that my hallway and the rest of my house is on the other side of that door. I realize it is a possibility that on the other side of my bedroom door lies the oval office, or maybe even a jail cell.

It is not hard for us to walk around and do our daily affairs because faith is built up by the fact that things usually never change much in our reality. So people go beyond faith much of the time and simply take things for granted. People believe that 1=1 when there is no real proof of that. There are all kinds of possibilities. 1=5, 1=9, 1=15. What makes us so sure that 1 always ='s 1 is that we have never seen 1 = anything other then 1 and I think it is safe to say that we never will see anything other then 1=1. Proof of anything is a little hard for us humans because we are closed "inside the box" if you know what I mean.

Like I said. When it comes to philosophy I can get pretty crazy on you. 
I am actually a very skeptical person if you can tell. My beliefs in God did not come quick and easy for me. I once believed in nothing. I mean "nothing". DP/DR sucked reality right out from under me and there was just darkness for awhile. It has been a very long road for me to get to the point of being able to have any trust for God.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Lostone

You mockingly laughed that i asked could god go against the laws of science. You said why would he go against his own laws that he created, what about the first law of thermodynamics, energy/matter can neither be created nor destroyed, he most certainly created the earth along with the rest of the universe no? Also, where did this semi-all powerful god come from, he just poofed into existence? Those books you recommended sound very interesting, but i am worried that it will make me more confused and introspective, i dont want to get even more lost in this topic than i already am. Oh, and do you believe that human beings were placed on this earth just how they appear today and didnt evolve from the same ancestor as monkeys? And 1 most certainly equals 1, because humans are the god of mathematics.


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## Revelation_old (Aug 9, 2004)

Mr. Zombie said:


> Would any of you want to go to space?


I would love to see earth from space. I would be too scared to go though


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

AllmindnoBrain said:


> And 1 most certainly equals 1, because humans are the god of mathematics.


I like that 

So true, and a cool way of saying it.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

AllmindnoBrain sorry if that seemed like I was mocking, thats not why I wrote the LOL.



> what about the first law of thermodynamics, energy/matter can neither be created nor destroyed


That is a man made law. From our perspective it would hold up to be true but our laws do not always apply to God.

I don't really see the point in going on talking about God's power. I did not call him "semi-all powerful".

There is just a lot more to God then "raw power". It would actually take me a long time to explain this subject fully and I don't think this is the right place to get into the topic very deeply.



> And 1 most certainly equals 1, because humans are the god of mathematics.


Yes well if you learn more about quantum mechanics then you will learn that our understanding of things is still very limited. And it is always a possibility for 1 to turn into 2. Quantum Mechanics is a very complicated subject and so is the subject of Singularities, actually all the laws of physics do break down inside of a Singularity and they break down in Quantum Mechanics also. This is why it is such a complicated subject. Mixing these subjects with the subject of religion is going to cause some problems here I think.

Again AllmindnoBrain I was not mocking you. And if I was really going to elaborate fully on my thoughts about God and God's power then I would have to drag the topic out so far that this would have to be moved into the spiritual section.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Thats for you Rev.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Lol on the picture of earth. yea, im going to go watch some mtv or something now, lol.


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## RedCaineForNova (Mar 5, 2005)

I must say this is one of the best threads i've read.

LOSTONE the stuff you write is amazing..totally messes with my mind but I love it. Especially when you wrote:

"My point is that this entire reality that we all believe in, may in fact be only a dream. Only a false figment of our minds. I have even had the idea about the possibility that I am God and that everything else is only my imagination.

That totally f ed with my mind haha. But yeah I deffinetly think all of this "reality" stuff is insane. Part of me really wants to know about the universe, ect. But another part of me is like, well we don't know, we probably won't and maybe it's supose to stay that way. Maybe we can't handle that kind of knowlege(if that makes sense). I hope that if there is "heaven" or whatever we are atleast informed about everything then. That would be nice hahah.

Have you ever seen the movie "Waking Life", it's really weird but it talks about "reality" and "is this all a dream?" kind of stuff. I want to warn anyone with DP/DR that this movie totally messes with your mind. If you can handle that kind of stuff then you should check it out.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Ive seen it, its a really good movie. It didnt mess with my mind, it was actually nice to see a movie that explored thoughts that i have had many times, it made me feel sane actually.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

yea i thought the way they filmed it was really awesome too. They shot it with a digital camera and then had somethine like 20 different animators turn the footage into...well...whatever it is.


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## severed (Jun 11, 2007)

All the stuff in this thread - the questions of god, physics, philosophy, and the universe - is all what triggered my dr. It's "close to my heart" in a way.  (if I have a heart)

I'm wondering, has anyone here read the His Dark Materials Trilogy? The author links dark matter with God and Angels, it's very interesting (one of my favourite books). I should also mention that it's a fictional/fantasy story.

(and sorry if someone already brought this up, I was skimming through the thread quickly)


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## RedCaineForNova (Mar 5, 2005)

yeah it was deffinetly filmed really cool. I heard somewhere that the directors were thinking of re-releasing it as live action instead of animated, which would be cool.

Can anyone recomend any good books on the topics mentioned in this thread? I'll deffinetly check out that Stephen Hawkings book "A brief history of time". But if there's any other excellent books please list them!


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> That totally f ed with my mind haha. But yeah I deffinetly think all of this "reality" stuff is insane. Part of me really wants to know about the universe, ect. But another part of me is like, well we don't know, we probably won't and maybe it's supose to stay that way. Maybe we can't handle that kind of knowlege(if that makes sense). I hope that if there is "heaven" or whatever we are atleast informed about everything then. That would be nice hahah.
> 
> Have you ever seen the movie "Waking Life", it's really weird but it talks about "reality" and "is this all a dream?" kind of stuff. I want to warn anyone with DP/DR that this movie totally messes with your mind. If you can handle that kind of stuff then you should check it out.


You said something there about not being able to handle all the knowledge about the universe and I assure you that you are correct in thinking that way. In fact I have found that knowledge can actually cause a very great deal of pain. People that are very ignorant about things do not have as hard of a time being happy as other people who are not so ignorant. This has been made very clear to me personally in life and I have also read scriptures in the bible that talks about this. 
King Solomon wrote about this a great deal. Even if you do not believe in God I think that there are few people that do not know who King Solomon was. He wrote that his wisdom although it had gotten him great wealth, it also caused him a very great deal of pain because he was so well aware of the facts about things.

And it is really simple actually. Our minds are just to limited to be able to handle all the information that is in this universe. Actually we can not even begin to scrape the surface of that knowledge because it is just far to vast for us to be able to understand or even know about. Even as a collective, the human race is not much more then a film of dust on the scales of the totall power and information that is out there in the universe. 
That is why in the bible it is wrote that God refers to us as an unreality (in terms of power and wisdom/knowledge). We are literally nothing when compared to everything else.

No matter what your idea about God is, I think it should be very clear that we humans are little more then nothing in this universe. Our attempts to fully understand all of it is really just a joke, it will never happen. We could continue learning new things for the rest of eternity and never run out of new information to ponder over and think about.

I have never seen Waking life but I will check that movie out when I get a chance. It sounds like something I would like to see.



> I'll deffinetly check out that Stephen Hawkings book "A brief history of time". But if there's any other excellent books please list them!


When it comes to physics, the only book I will advise you read is that book by Stephen Hawkings. There is no other book that explains physics in layman's terms as well as that book does. 
Those movies I noted are also very good though because they go over all the info in Hawkings book but they help you to visualize much of what physics is coming up with these days.

There are other books and movies/shows that deal with this topic but most of them have a lot of Philosophy tied in with them. If your going to look into physics then Hawkings books are probably the best place to start. There is enough info in his books to keep you occupied for a long time.

Some of his other good books are "Stephen Hawking's Universe: The Cosmos Explained" , "The Universe in a Nutshell" and "The Theory of Everything" http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Everything ... 1893224546

I would start with "A Brief History of Time". And then if you follow that book and it is not to confusing then move onto his other books.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)




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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

The version of the book I read is called "A Briefer History of time".

In this version he goes into less detail about the mathematics behind the physics, and talks more about the philosophy, etc.

This would be a better choice for someone without a math background.[/b]


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

Feynman has some really good books written for the laymen as well. I would check him out.

Einsteins general theory of relativity is worth a read too, it actually is not that difficult to follow if you take your time and know some maths


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

Einstein is Einstein, but Physics has moved a long way from where it was when Einstein came up with Relativity.

What book are you talking about exactly anyway?

Who is the Author?

I am guessing your talking about the book wrote by Max Born right?

There are to many books about that theory with almost exactly the same name.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

I'm talking about the theory of relativity, written by the one and only Albert Einstein.

http://www.amazon.com/Relativity-Specia ... 278&sr=1-1

This is not his original paper, but his attempt at explaining his theory in more accesible language.

-----------------------

However, if you have mastered tensor calculus you may want to try and read the real thing.... http://www.amazon.com/Principle-Relativ ... 278&sr=1-1


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

LOL

As I said, there are many books out there that cover the theory of Relativity.

I have not mastered Calculus yet myself.

I was always very good in math but my life has been so messed up that school has never been my highest priority.

I would love to be able to goto school and study Physics and get a PhD or something. The subject is fascinating to me.

My priority for most of my life has simply been survival though. That priority has been hard enough on me.

For anyone else out there that has been able to master Calculus and battle DP/DR at the same time, all I can say is congratulations, you are worthy of honer for your achievement!

Not that Calculus is really that big of a deal, but DP/DR can be a very huge deal. Sometimes I find myself amazed that I can even remember how to tie my shoes because DP/DR is hitting me so hard.

DP/DR has been so harsh to me at times that I feel like I deserve the medal of honor or something just for my surviving through this catastrophe.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

LOSTONE said:


> I have not mastered Calculus yet myself.
> 
> I was always very good in math but my life has been so messed up that school has never been my highest priority.
> 
> ...


I hear you. Calculus isnt what people make it out to be though, differential equations now thats a bitch. School is actually one of the only things that has kept me sane over the years, the only times i am feeling somewhat ok is when im studying and doing math and science cause it keeps my head in those subjects and nowhere else. For someone who is so Dp'd its impressive how well your writing flows.


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## brandon is not taken (Mar 29, 2007)

AllmindnoBrain said:


> I hear you. Calculus isnt what people make it out to be though, differential equations now thats a bitch. School is actually one of the only things that has kept me sane over the years, the only times i am feeling somewhat ok is when im studying and doing math and science cause it keeps my head in those subjects and nowhere else. For someone who is so Dp'd its impressive how well your writing flows.


Yea calc really is not hard if you are already good with algebra and trig. I took diffEQ a year ago, that was pretty challenging but I had an easy teacher.

Next semester I am taking abstract algebra and advanced calculus (kind of like a calc 4 i guess). I am scared shitless, I dont know if i am going to be able to do it, but i have to try.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> Next semester I am taking abstract algebra and advanced calculus (kind of like a calc 4 i guess). I am scared shitless, I dont know if i am going to be able to do it, but i have to try.


Good luck!

I wish I had the ability to goto school and learn what I want to learn.

Life is a lot easier when you have a good education and a good Job.



> For someone who is so Dp'd its impressive how well your writing flows.


That is funny to read because I always feel like I am making no sense at all. 
Sometimes I have to reread my post 3 or 4 times because I feel like it is all messed up. I also feel this way when I am speaking to people and so I lose track of what I am talking about and just go blank. :shock: 
People cut me off in conversation a lot and usually am I happy that I did get cut off because I am always fearing where the hell my words are taking me to. LOL.

The internet is not as much of a stress on my cognitive abilities as a real conversation can be.

In the real world I am much more messed up then I probably seem to be on here. :wink:


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Same lostone

I often get interrupted when i talk to cause i guess people can tell im going nowhere fast, lol. Its actually not funny though, it causes me a lot of stress and depression. Writing is a lot easier for me than speaking also, i hate talking its almost impossible to get the words out right.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I often get interrupted when i talk to cause i guess people can tell im going nowhere fast, lol. Its actually not funny though, it causes me a lot of stress and depression. Writing is a lot easier for me than speaking also, i hate talking its almost impossible to get the words out right.


I really got hit hard by this because I used to be a very social type of person. I was always trying to make people laugh and now it seems like I have become exactly what I used to hate, a very serious and anti social person.

I let DP/DR become the focal point of almost all my attention for a long time. I realize now though that there are more important things to life then enjoyment and fun and games. Socializing is good for us but I realize that I can still be happy even without the ability to socialize well. Even with serious DP/DR I can still find a way to be happy about being alive.

The real key to happiness is to do things for other people and not just for yourself. I am realizing that as long as I live my life in a good way and I do my best to make a positive impact on this world then I will be a happy person. Even if I become totally retarded, I know happiness is possible as long as I am doing my best to be a good person and help out other people as much as I can.

I think I am beginning to realize that actually there may be more happiness available to me now since I have gotten DP/DR. I think it is all just a matter of how you look at things and how you use the abilities you still have. Happiness is not the result of good social skills or money or a big IQ or fame and glory. I think true happiness is much more linked with love then anything else. Learning how to love other people and feel good towards people I think is the beginning of true peace and happiness. The problem in this world and with many of us with DP/DR I think is that most of us simply do not know how to love or what love really is even about. We all get hit with a problem like DP/DR and most of us do the exact opposite of what we should do in order to deal with it. We focus more inward and more upon ourselves and then we lose the whole entire meaning of what our humanity is all about.

One force that I have found to be very powerful in this universe is the force of Love. I seriously think that love is more powerful then anything bad that comes our way. The real problem is that we live in a totally loveless society and most people alive today do not even know what love is. The idea of what love is has been twisted in our minds and so people are always looking for love but they do not even recognize it when they see it because they do not know what it is.

Personally I have come to the conclusion that it is better for me to be loving toward other people then it would be for me to have other people love and adore me. DP/DR has made my life very hard and it has made me somewhat of a social freak but I am really starting to realize that it is not that big of a deal. I am the one that posses the key to my own peace of mind and my own happiness. Nobody can take that key away from me unless I willingly give it away. Even if the entire human race is seeking out my death because of hatred toward me. I know that my own personal happiness is up to me and not anyone else.

AllmindnoBrain I think what I am trying to say here is that there is no point in getting depressed over DP/DR or over what other people do to us. As long as you know that you are doing your best then you should be happy with yourself.

Anyway, I think I have gotten off topic.

These thoughts for me do tie in with the topic of understanding the universe though because I believe that the universe was created out of a motivation of love by Jehovah God. I could go into greater detail expressing my thoughts about the universe but I know that I am pretty much alone here with the belief that Jehovah God created this universe so I will keep most of my thoughts to myself.

Actually this is a topic that I could go on and on and on about but I am aware that most all of the people here are not going to agree with me and some people may actually get upset because of what my thoughts are about the universe. Personally though, my beliefs and my thoughts about the universe make me very happy and they give me a reason to keep living and fighting to stay alive.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2007)

LOSTONE said:


> The real key to happiness is to do things for other people and not just for yourself.


Ditto... *slowly nods*.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

LOSTONE
thank you, that was very inspiring, its 10:30ish right now and i didnt want to go out with my friends cause im feeling depressed, but i think im gonna go out now. You just helped me


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> hank you, that was very inspiring, its 10:30ish right now and i didnt want to go out with my friends cause im feeling depressed, but i think im gonna go out now. You just helped me


 

I'm glad that I help you snap out of the depression.

And I hope that things go well with your friends so that you don't become more depressed for going out with them. 
Sometimes I only feel worse when I go out.

I hope you have a good time and don't get into any trouble.


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## RedCaineForNova (Mar 5, 2005)

I agree with you people. I deffinetly communicate ALOT better through writing then speaking. It's like my thoughts/ideas don't exit my mind correctly? And I wonder sometimes if when I'm talking I make sense at all haha.

"sometimes I only feel worse when I go out"

me too.

I've found that I don't like my friends very much here in my home town. I always feel like sh*t during/after I hang out with them. But my friends from college are so awesome, it sucks that I'm not going back to that school, but I talk to them everyday!


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

Going out didnt make my depression worse, i had a descent time actually. I went to a club where there was mostly just dancing and extremely loud music playing so it wasnt possible to have a conversation with someone unless you have them repeat what they said 3 more times to get it. the women at the desk at the entry had a stack of tickets with "20" written on it and for some reason it just didnt click that that meant 20 bucks, i asked her "20 what"?, lol. Ive never paid more than 10 to get into a place oh well, i bet i was the only person who entered that place with that confusion, I think sometimes i may cause my own confusion by thinking too much into things when there really very simple. Me and my friends were freestyling (rhyming sentences to a beat for you old timers who dont know), which i think is a good excersize for me to get better at speaking and letting words come more naturally, I brought up the topic of the expanse of the universe and my friends pretty much cut me off, i guess they would rather not think of this stuff (may i add, my friends arent the brightest).


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> I think sometimes i may cause my own confusion by thinking too much into things when there really very simple.


I think all of us here have the same problem.

:lol:

We are probably all better off dealing with deep subjects like Physics then we are at dealing with simple subjects like ticket prices. LOL.

I am really surprised that you can freestyle at all with DP/DR~!
I can not even sing anything even with a songbook right in front of me!
It is just way to strange for me now. I feel so out of place that it is like I am really a literal robot that is trying to sing or something like that. The feeling is just not there. I see the words on the page but if I were to try and sing then it would just sound like I was reading something boring, not singing.



> I brought up the topic of the expanse of the universe and my friends pretty much cut me off, i guess they would rather not think of this stuff


I remember when I first read Stephen Hawkings book "a brief history of time", I was so excited about what I was reading that it had my mind spinning for days. One night my brother cooked up a really expensive meal for me, my sister, my nice and himself and I brought up the conversation about Hawkings book. Nobody was talking anyway so I thought they may be interested in what I was reading. I started talking about it and they all just looked at me like I was crazy or something. Then my brother eventually cut me off and just told me that I was going way over his head and that this conversation was way to deep for a nice dinner topic. I was pretty quite the rest of the night because I realized right then that I am not normal anymore.

Most people don't bring up topics about the universe when they are out at a club or eating a nice dinner. Most people just want to joke around or talk about themselves. I find it very hard to joke around anymore about anything because of my DP/DR.

Personally I try to just stick to letting people talk about themselves. I usually only ask questions in conversation these days. The problem is that usually the people that like talking to me the most are the totally self centered people that I can not stand to be around.

If there were more DP/DR people in this world then I would not have a problem.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

LOSTONE said:


> We are probably all better off dealing with deep subjects like Physics then we are at dealing with simple subjects like ticket prices. LOL.
> 
> I am really surprised that you can freestyle at all with DP/DR~!
> 
> ...


I agree, i always used to say to my ex girlfriend that she was more confusing than calculus. Its hard to adjust your thinking to more simpler things when your thinking is normally so "BIG". When i freestyle i am able to visualize a scene in my head and then i talk about what im seeing, without that i wouldnt be able to say anything. I agree, a lot of my friends and friends of my past are extremely cocky and self-centered, i think i attract those people because i am such a good listener, also maybe because i want there confidence/cockiness to rub off on me a little bit. Sometimes i wish that everyone was dp/dr, but i guess things wouldnt be as exciting and challenging for us all. I am trying to look at this whole thing as a challenge, as a handicap/gift that i have to overcome and try to use for my benefit in a way. for example, it gives me comfort sometimes to think that this is all a dream and that it isnt that important, that doesnt mean i can do whatever the hell i want but this thought makes me feel somewhat in control over myself and the entire world around me.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> it gives me comfort sometimes to think that this is all a dream and that it isnt that important, that doesnt mean i can do whatever the hell i want but this thought makes me feel somewhat in control over myself and the entire world around me.


That is a kind of an ironic statement but I know exactly what you are talking about.

I have to actually force myself to believe that things do matter. Normally if I do not force myself to take action and wake up and smell the coffee then I will just be sitting on a beach somewhere watching the waves for the rest of my life until I starve to death. I could very easily slip into a totally apathetic mindset and become a complete beach bum. It actually almost happened to me. I do realize though that things do matter, this is not just a dream. My actions not only effect my own life but they have an effect on everyone else around me. So I always do my best to make the most out of my time here on earth. It is not easy to keep positive with serious DP/DR though. I feel like I am always at war with it.

By the way, I personally think that all women are confusing. I also think they even try to confuse us men just for fun sometimes just because they know how good they are at warping our minds.

I think there is a lot more going on in the mind of women then men realize. It actually scares me to think about it sometimes. I just stick to trying to figure out myself and the universe. I leave women for God to figure out.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2007)

10.000.000 bonus points added to LOSTONE (Most i've ever given out) lol.



LOSTONE said:


> By the way, I personally think that all women are confusing. I also think they even try to confuse us men just for fun sometimes just because they know how good they are at warping our minds.


SNAKES WITH TITS...


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> 10.000.000 bonus points added to LOSTONE (Most i've ever given out)


LOL

I hope that was not offensive to any of the women on this forum.

I know all women are not the same, but I do believe that many women out there do actually confuse us men intentionally just for fun.

Us men are always trying to solve problems and I think this is disturbing to women sometimes and so they intentionally throw us curve balls just to mess with our heads. I believe that it is well in the power of almost all women to drive a man totally insane, that is if they wanted to.


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

:lol: You have no idea what we are capable of 

Bailee


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2007)

Some women a easy.


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

Yes, SOME are, but men are easier :lol:

Bailee


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2007)

Well yeah... thats why many of your kind are labeled "Snakes with tits"... Us men get posioned by you kind because it's fun for your "Kind"... well the posioned men may cause harm to others due to their pain which was caused by a pathetic little mind game: *Twisted*.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> You have no idea what we are capable of Very Happy


*Lostone hides under bed*


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2007)

LOSTONE said:


> *Lostone hides under bed*


*points at LOSTONE's bed*... you can't hide under it dude... there's no space for that... you shouldn't have ordered a bed with draws... dooms awaits you... lol. FINISH HIM!


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

> *points at LOSTONE's bed*... you can't hide under it dude... there's no space for that... you shouldn't have ordered a bed with draws... dooms awaits you... lol. FINISH HIM!


I feel like I would like to swap places with this little boy right about now.










I can handle the Uruk-Hai no problem. They don't scare me at all.


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## Hopefull (Dec 1, 2006)

Knocks on LOSTONE's door :twisted: 
Watching, Allllllllways watching. {insert crazy laugh track here}
I can see you hiding in there.


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## LOSTONE (Jul 9, 2005)

I am sooooooooooooooooooo happy that I am single.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2007)

I relate... I don't feel "locked down" any loner.


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