# Relationships



## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

After not using MSN forever; I got chatting to an old friend on there tonight, he was talking about how things have changed between him and his girlfriend since they had the ?baby talk? and he told her he doesn?t want kids, ever. They?ve been together for 15 months and things suddenly changed, I?ve been trying to explain to him how she might be feeling, from a female point of view. She?s become cold towards him, and irritable, but he can?t understand why she has changed like this.

I was just wondering if I?ve actually captured the general gist of how girls think, or have I just given him a load of old twoddle that relates to no one but me?

Anyway, here?s what I told him, let me know what you think girls, is it really possible to describe our relationship ?thought journeys? so simply, or just my own? Feedback appreciated.

*Girl meets boy, they fall in love, within 6 months girl starts to daydream about how he'll propose to her, what their wedding day will be like, kids names etc. Bear in mind she will not mention this yet, as the boy would run a mile.

The relationship passes the one year marker and these dreams become a bit more solid, the relationship is going well and maybe her dreams will come true someday? around 18 months she starts to get scared that he might not feel the same way, seeks some assurance. Starts with the 'oooh, look at the pretty baby' talk, she's testing the water here, to make sure you're not a 'no babies' bloke.

Generally, if all goes well we're pacified until around the 2 year marker, this is where we start wanting a bit more commitment, we wonder when we will be more than just a girlfriend, and will we ever (this is where I am now).

See; you hit the snag when it got brought up in Southport, she was still in the 'daydreaming about your perfect life together' phase, but this got shattered... probably knocked the stuffing out of her a bit. It's only natural that she's going to be wondering where the relationship is going, it's human nature I guess. She's probably pretty hurt and confused, it's a big decision she has to make now. Does she give up on her dreams to be with you, or does she try to dull her feelings for you and accept that you just weren't meant to be?

Girls are very emotional beings, I don't think she is trying to be awkward or moody, she just has an awful lot of re-evaluating to do right now.*


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

I've never had a long term relationship, nor am I a girl so I can't really comment.

But I can understand that any woman would be very shaken if told that, basically "If you stay in this relationship, you'll never be able to create a life". I think it would undermine a very powerful drive in either a male or female.

At the same time I think its naive to say "I never want to have kids". Its probably better to say "I'm not ready to have kids now - who knows if I will change in the future?".

Though on the other hand, if he's vehement about never wanting kids it would be akin to living a lie and leading the girl on if he was to say otherwise.

/shrug


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

I agree with everything you say Cecil, personally I don't hold out much hope for them.

They're both pretty stoically set in their ways, maybe best to call it a day. He honestly couldn't grasp why she has been a bit upset and ponderous about their future though.

Lovey bloke but absolutley no brain it would seem!


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

I she wants kids and he doesn't.........Sorry, the relationship is doomed.
He may just have a fear of commitment suz, or depending on his age may feel he is headed for the 3 kids and a station wagon fear :shock: 
How old is he?

3098 x  x


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

He's 28 I think. As he puts it.

'I've never even considered marriage, it's just a piece of paper... and as for kids... I don't want a part of me living on after I'm gone'.

I think it's doomed too, but it was hard to tell him this. He'll be hard pressed to find a woman who conforms to his way of thinking in my opinion too.

I've never met his girlfriend but I think I'm 'on her side' so to speak. I'm still interested as to whether girls think I summed us up well though too...


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## Pollyanna 3098 (Dec 12, 2006)

Agreed 

3098 x


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> He may just have a fear of commitment


I hear this alot. I've never been 'afraid' of commitment, just....well, bored with long term relationships, usually. But I'm old, fat and tired now, so I haven't got the energy to be bored.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Martinelv said:


> I hear this alot. I've never been 'afraid' of commitment, just....well, bored with long term relationships, usually. But I'm old, fat and tired now, so I haven't got the energy to be bored.


Awww, bless.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2007)

Sounds as if he requires a relationship with a work workolic who doesn't have the time for babies... only work.



suz said:


> He's 28 I think. As he puts it.
> 
> 'I've never even considered marriage, it's just a piece of paper... and as for kids... I don't want a part of me living on after I'm gone'.


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## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

suz said:


> I've never met his girlfriend but I think I'm 'on her side' so to speak. I'm still interested as to whether girls think I summed us up well though too...


 :lol: since only guys have responded...
I basically agree with you suz.
Sounds like she's justified. 
I would have doubts about being in a long term relationship with someone who obviously didn't want the same things as me. 
It's not nice for him if the person he loves doesn't accept.. but the same goes both ways. She's probably pretty upset and weighing her options.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

suz said:


> 'I've never even considered marriage, it's just a piece of paper... and as for kids... I don't want a part of me living on after I'm gone'.


While I agree with him about the marriage part, it sounds like he has pretty low self esteem with the second bit. Either that or just doesn't believe in the whole idea of having to immortalise yourself through your seed.


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## Epiphany (Apr 28, 2006)

I have a friend in a similar situation...

Her bf of about a year and half now is divorced with 2 or 3 kids from previous marriage...she is divorced with no kids but is beginning to hear that old bio clock ticking away...he has had the chop, too many years ago to get a reversal. She broached the kid issue with him about 6 months in to the relationship and he said he was done...he had his brood. So that left her with a big decision to make. They are still together (weird dynamics mind you...coz he won't commit) but she still wants kids...I don't talk to her about it these days...I think it's a bit of a sore point since I had my bub, but I have no idea what her plan is...I think she still holds out hope that he will change his mind. Sigh!!!!I just hope she doesn't leave it too late and miss out altogether.

As harsh as it sounds I would have had to end the relationship...no matter how much I loved the guy I know I would be resentful if I missed out on having them because my partner didn't want them.

If they COULDN'T have them, well that's a whole other story. I wouldn't leave them then UNLESS they weren't willing to look into other options, ie; adopting, donors etc.

So, for me...no kids, no relationship. I do believe that he did the right thing though, telling her straight up that he didn't want any. I would hate to find out years down the track that he had just been lying and had no intentions of ever being a father. That would be unforgivable.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

I agree, I commended him for being honest with her. But if I was her I'd have ended it, if they stay together then I feel a big ball of resentment shall build and eventually destroy the relationship.

I'm in a mildy lesser quandry at the moment. My boyfriend is unwilling to commit, although he doesn't say this is a permanent thing. He is, however, willing to have children with me. I find this puzzling, I'm sure that having a child together is a bigger commitment than getting engaged, surely? I'm rather torn on what I myself am supposed to do.

I wish to be claimed.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

Where is HalfAPerson? Where are you my dear?... I want your input on this!!

Thanks to all you girlies for your replies by the way...

*hugs Layla*


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Hmm. Your theory seems sound, Suz. But I tend to be the commitment phobe and head for the hills at the two year mark.

Bottom line: Having kids is a huge issue. In fact, THE BIGGEST issue. It's one of the only grounds you can get a marriage annulled (if your spouse lied to you about their desire or ability to have the little ones).

So, I'm gonna have to say...why are they bothering? If he's adamant that he doesn't want kids, he should cut the chord now. It's not an issue you can compromise on.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Commitment scares the living shit out of me. Thats probley one of the reasons ive never had a real relationship in my whole life. Ive never even had a real girlfriend. Ive had lots of girls and ive been really good friends with a few girls ive just never been able to combine the 2.

Also if i was in a real relationship even the mention of getting married and having kids would probley be enough to send me running for the nearest exit. Id just start picturing the mini van in the driveway of the suburban house and that would be enough to send me packing. Im very impulsive and i don't like being tied down to anything.

So i can see where this guy is coming from but if she wants kids and he doesent then they should just go their seperate ways and be done with it. If i ever end up in a serious relationship in the near future id just tell the woman outright that i don't want to have kids yet and that's it.

Ill probley change my mind entirely about this whole issue when i get older and settle down abit. When i hit my early to mid 30's i will probley be mellowed out enough to get married and possibly have kids. The getting married bit actually scares me more then the having kids part for some reason. I just have visions of walking down the aisle and it changing into me walking to the gallows instead.


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## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

lol, nice way of putting it comfortably numb 

For me its not really a fear of commitment as it is not seeing the point in getting married. I am very much about personal power and responsibility. I think that two people can be together, love one another and not need a piece of paper to prove it.

Likewise I believe that people change. What's right for people changes from time to time and that even includes the strongest relationships. I feel that real love is having your partner of 20 years come up to you and say "I just got a new job in another country, I'm leaving tomorrow". Then you say "Wow! That's excellent for you! I'm happy working here at the moment, so I'll see you later".

But I'm single, so I really have no idea


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Im also in the marriage is nothing but a piece of paper group. I mean if i love a woman why do i need a piece of paper and some stupid marriage ceremony to prove it.


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

Hello again, Suz. I just re-read your original post. I see now you're more interested in the girl type stuff than what your friend should do in his relationship (Sorry, I was in a hurry)

I am flattered you'd ask my opinion, but on this one I think I'm an atypical chick. I don't do what you mentioned: imagine the wedding and whatnot. I am, generally, the less emotional person in a relationship. Discussion of marriage and kids makes me get cagey. But I would, yes, ultimately like both for myself. I can confidently say those I headed for the hills to get away from were not the right people for me. I realized as much and when they wanted something different, I knew there was no point in staying in a relationship. I think it would be selfish to do so on my part. And pointless.

Yet, I was involved with a person I DID actually believe to be "the one". However, I realized his issues and disinterest in commitment were far, far bigger than me. His actions indirectly (or I don't know, maybe directly) precipitated me breaking it off with him. I figured if he wasn't going to get his shit sorted anytime soon there was no sense in me holding out for it. It was very very difficult to disentangle myself emotionally. But I did it. And am now glad that I had enough sense not to waste anymore time or energy on him. I will admit, though, on any given day if I chose to think about him long enough I could get lured back into the madness. So he's therefore relegated to the "never think of again" file. Fortunately, I have one of those...

And then, of course, I did have the one abysmal marriage. But that was due to mental instability. I don't think it REALLY counts in this discussion. Dear me.

My current relationship is a work in progress. My commitment phobia is rearing, but I have legitimate reasons for it. And Comfortably Numb, if you're still following this post, I have the same problem with effectively combining the friend/relationship thing. My current boyfriend is indeed an old friend. STILL having difficulty blending the two after almost a year and a half together.

So, basically, what I'm trying to say here, Suz...I don't think I'm the best person to be asking about relationship advice. :wink:


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

HalfAPerson said:


> So, basically, what I'm trying to say here, Suz...I don't think I'm the best person to be asking about relationship advice. :wink:


Haha, in a nutshell... :lol:

My boyfriend and I were friends long before we got together and I had no problem with the morph to boy/girlfriends, but I can see where the difficulty in that would come about.

I think he's breaking it off with her this week, I feel somewhat responsible... :roll:


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## HalfAPerson (Aug 22, 2006)

I wouldn't feel responsible (okay, I lie, maybe I would)...but it's the best thing for her in the long run. Why would she want to waste time on someone who doesn't want kids when she does?


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

Dear Suz, 
Don't tear yourself up.

If I had the choice, I suppose I would find the love of my life and get married. I have started to think it could wait a bit though, considering no one is a) interested b) suitable.

I know my problem - I want too much. Intelligence, confidence and spirituality.

I have a thing for rich men but they never deliver personality, and sometimes there is a clear compensation for other factors. Harsh words, harsh words....I'm no supermodel, so I guess I see it as a mutual attitude.

There was a nice guy at the Quakers 
Rozanne


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

HalfAPerson said:


> My current relationship is a work in progress. My commitment phobia is rearing, but I have legitimate reasons for it. And Comfortably Numb, if you're still following this post, I have the same problem with effectively combining the friend/relationship thing. My current boyfriend is indeed an old friend. STILL having difficulty blending the two after almost a year and a half together.


 Well im glad guy's especially screwed up ones like me arent the only ones to have this problem.


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## suz (Mar 26, 2007)

I think we all have issues.

My own is an abandonment phobia, I can get pretty scared pretty often. But I'm of the classic 'daddy left me to work abroad' school. Damaged goods *sigh*


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

suz said:


> I think we all have issues.
> 
> My own is an abandonment phobia, I can get pretty scared pretty often. But I'm of the classic 'daddy left me to work abroad' school. Damaged goods *sigh*


 Well me and my dad we where never close at all, we have a completly different set of values, I never wanted anything at all to do with the kind of life he wanted for me, we never talked at all and he was away most of the time when i was growing up anyway. So my situation isint that different then yours i guess.

It's just that i don't give a shit more or less. In fact im proud of the fact that i grew up to be one of those people that he warned me about  .


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