# Lithium anyone?



## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

has anyone tried this for their dissociative symptoms?


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2014)

From what I've heard, Lithium is used prevent emotional swings, and generally numb people out when they are overly emotional. Kind of sounds counterproductive when dealing with DP/DR.


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## kelly326 (Dec 10, 2013)

I read awhile back that Adam Duritz from counting crows took it for his DP. I do know that it is a really dangerous med. Can really mess with your body. I know someone who took it for 20 years, screwed up her thyroid, she has constant tremors in her hands and voice. I would really try to stay away from that.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Lithium is an old drug for bipolar. There are studies that more current mood stabilizers do help with DP/DR and I'm on one. Lamictal 200mg. I've been on it for about 12 years. I wouldn't call Lithium dangerous in that it has been used for decades for bipolar disorder. Certainly more current mood stabilizers make more sense.

Lithium does not seem like a logical drug of choice. Lamictal and Neurontin (originally anticonvulsants) can stabilize mood and I know one person whose DP/DR faded after being on Neurontin.

The meds that seem most successful (and have been for me) are Klonopin (not any other benzo) and an SSRI. "The klono-combo" and studies have also shown Lamictal. These three would be something to talk about with your doctor.

Side effects ... it is risk/benefit. For someone with bipolar Lithium is a life saver. I have few if any side effects from my medications. I tend not to have negative side-effects save with some meds in the past. Mainly they simply don't work on me at all.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Dreamer, I responded to one of your posts that I can't seem to find about how nature and nurture create dissociative symptoms. 
You said that 'chemical imbalance theory' was something made up and I posted a video a long time ago 
from YouTube called 'The DSM Psychology's Latest Scam', which talks about the same thing, that psychiatry is a pseudoscience etc as there is no way to prove there are low levels of serotonin, dopamine or other neurotransmitters that may affect mood. There is a theory that links dissociation to a negative feedback mechanism that reduces adrenaline. Again this can't really be measured so it's just a theory. Lithium has been 
used for 50 years especially for schizophrenia and is viewed as a miracle drug even though no one really knows how it works. They even think it way work for Alzheimer's and I wonder why and how and that it may work for dissociation as well. Here's and older article I found about lithium.

http://discovermagazine.com/2010/the-brain-2/27-metal-marvel-mended-brains-50-years-lithium#.UwqXJHi9LCT


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

wise said:


> Dreamer, I responded to one of your posts that I can't seem to find about how nature and nurture create dissociative symptoms.
> You said that 'chemical imbalance theory' was something made up and I posted a video a long time ago
> from YouTube called 'The DSM Psychology's Latest Scam', which talks about the same thing, that psychiatry is a pseudoscience etc as there is no way to prove there are low levels of serotonin, dopamine or other neurotransmitters that may affect mood. There is a theory that links dissociation to a negative feedback mechanism that reduces adrenaline. Again this can't really be measured so it's just a theory. Lithium has been
> used for 50 years especially for schizophrenia and is viewed as a miracle drug even though no one really knows how it works. They even think it way work for Alzheimer's and I wonder why and how and that it may work for dissociation as well. Here's and older article I found about lithium.
> ...


Wise,

I didn't say "chemical imbalance" is pseudoscience. To me pseudoscience would be something like clearing your body of thetans in Scientology, IMHO.

I simply said -- and I forgot where that was -- that the term "chemical imbalance" is an easy way to explain something very complex to the public, and through the media. We know that mental illnesses are caused by all sorts of things going awry in the brain. We do know for example that a lack of serotonin seems to be involved in depression, or as mentioned in this article that excess uric acid can cause severe mania and this is why the researcher tried lithium salts to counter that effect with sucess.

Because someone uses a medication, and it helps, but cannot be fully explained it does not mean it is a scam.

We have to agree to disagree that psychiatry is pseudoscience. I won't debate this as I'm too tired.

I have said many times I have had much interaction with mentally ill individuals, with psychiatrists, I was raised by a psychiatrist who was a cruel person but who was also extremely intelligent. I am an artistic person who was raised by two doctors and went to a private school where I had some heavy duty classes in everything. (I have no idea how I passed chemistry).

I'm too tired to go into the theories of medication research, or discussing lithium -- I'm not a chemist.

The main point is, many drugs work on symptoms and we don't understand why. As far as lithium goes it's been around forever to treat mania. While experimenting with it, and seeing a very long-term longitudinal study on those who have taken it for decades, it can be observed to have other properties. I don't know why that would be called "pseudoscience."

I would just say that I would NOT think of Lithium as a first choice for something TODAY for anything more than treatment of bipolar and mania (and as noted in the article it can turn a person's life around who has this horrible illness). It is not a CURE, it treats and controls bipolar. Perhpas that is the misunderstanding. Psychiatric medications -- and MANY medications for all illnesses -- do not CURE, they control an illness and improve quality of life.

Re: trying Lithium. You can't walk into a doctor's office and say "I want to try Lithium." There is no indication that would be the most effective with DP. As I said, a good bit of research has shown that Klonopin (clonazepam), and Lamictal (lamotrigine), and sometimes an SSRI can help with anxiety and DP/DR. That's it.

Also, I prefer to avoid YouTube lectures on anti-psychiatry. I'd rather read an article like this which is relatively fair and balanced. You have to be very choosy on the internet. And that goes with any subject from science to literature.

There are many people in this world who are anti-psychiatry. There are also people who insist that giving a child vaccinations proves the child will get autism. It was found the individual who started all that falsified research results. So far there is no proof to indicate that is true, and meantime, more children have died from infections that we thought we had pretty much eliminated. There are also Christian Scientists (?) who do not believe in taking their children to doctors, that prayer will cure them. I have nothing against prayer, but when children die of a common disease becasue they weren't taken to a hospital -- well that really angers me.

There is plenty of medicine today that seems like "magic." Just because we don't understand how something works, yet it helps someone, what else would we do? It was originally believed that accupuncture was "pseudoscience" -- hate that word. Well, we now know it is excellent in treating pain. It doesn't cure cancer as some would state, but I have a friend who is a Western MD who also practices Eastern Mecicine and he uses acupuncture for pain. He even experimented on me.

A good person to talk to about these things is a pharmacist. They are experts in drugs.

Also read a fantastic book that I go back to over and over (I wish they would update it) -- used to be recommended university reading.

*The Chemistry of Mind-Altering Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Cultural Context*

Daneil M. Perrine

American Chemical Society

1996 (damn it is already so out of date, I keep looking for an updated copy.)

Required university reading for psychology, pre-med, biology, etc. My copy is falling apart. It has so much great information. And sadly a lot of chemistry in it, lol. But it is easy to read if you understand very basic chemistry.

http://www.amazon.com/Chemistry-Mind-Altering-Drugs-Pharmacology-Publication/dp/0841232539/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393243880&sr=1-1&keywords=the+chemistry+of+mind+altering+drugs


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Dreamer,
You can walk into a doctor's office and try anything you want these days or find someone that will prescribe it to you. And it's an open secret that the medical community takes psychiatrists least seriously, it's not just a matter of me taking everything I come across on YouTube at face value, it's that the evidence speaks for itself. Even if we know how these drugs work, it doesn't change the fact that we can't measure the levels of neurotransmitters they supposedly act upon.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Wise, I don't know why you asked the question about Lithium then in the first place.

You don't have to go to any doctor. If you don't go to the doctor, you can't get a prescription.

Also, no doctor can force you take a medication. And no doctor is forcing you to come into his/her office unless you choose to.

Also, you're even in better shape if you have no health insurance, as doctors and medications are expensive.

What can I say.

I suppose you could buy Lithium off the street, but I doubt it -- not miuch demand. I have no idea.

You've got nothing to worry about.

?


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Dreamer,
I was just curious if anyone here had tried lithium. I wasn't looking for an asinine response. I've honestly felt for your pain reading your posts but your true colors are coming through and you honestly seem bitter. Don't take it out on us here, it's not the place.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Selig,did you bother to read her last post on this thread addressed to me? It made no sense therefore, asinine came to mind. It's not about me 'not liking her response', she came across as taunting and bitter and I found it offensive. There's no need to belittle how I feel and ask me do I know what asinine means.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

*Dreamer* said:


> Wise, I don't know why you asked the question about Lithium then in the first place.
> You don't have to go to any doctor. If you don't go to the doctor, you can't get a prescription.
> 
> Also, no doctor can force you take a medication. And no doctor is forcing you to come into his/her office unless you choose to.
> ...


Hi Selig,
Does her response to me honestly any sense to you? I don't come here to read responses like this especially from a supposed 'mental health advocate'. If you can't see that there is a problem then you are part of the problem.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Selig said:


> Then you must be the shining beacon of reason on the site, because it's your response that made no sense to me.
> 
> People like you are the issue here- too much ego tied up in your posts to be objective.


I think her ego is the problem here. I was simply defending myself. I don't think it's appropriate for her to respond in such a condescending manner. It's not helpful, it's vindictive. Again, you are part of the problem if you allow and defend such responses by virtue of the fact that she's been on here for years.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

wise said:


> I think her ego is the problem here. I was simply defending myself. I don't think it's appropriate for her to respond in such a condescending manner. It's not helpful, it's vindictive. Again, you are part of the problem if you allow and defend such responses by virtue of the fact that she's been on here for years.


*Please don't get on Selig's case. He's a godsend here.*

I was very confused by the thread.

1. You asked if anyone had tried Lithium for DP (but as the thread went on, it seemed that wasn't the reason you asked the question)

2. 2 people (?) responded with some incorrrect information and not a personal experience (one said it was for schizophrenia -- it's not), another said a friend had taken it (we don't know what for)

3. I tried to clarify some things -- I write very quickly, and I my thoughts just fly out of my hands and I had a lot of thoughts.

4. *Wise,* you then asked me if I had said psychiatry was pseudoscience, or more specifically "chemical imbalance" and I tried to explain my POV on that. I think most people here already know my POV on that.

*At that point, I was frustrated as though you posted a very positive article on Lithium (that confused me) you then later attacked the psychiatric profession as a whole.* The artlice on Lithium was interesting and if anything though it's qualities aren't understood, it would seem it has a lot to offer in other areas of psychiatry -- including Alzheimer's which is considered a psychiatric condition (it affects cognnition and behavior).

You criticized psychiatrists as being, I forgot the exact words, the worst doctors, etc. And indicated that somehow they could force Lithium on anyone -- (that wouldn't happen if you had a DP diagnosis, and it would be unethical to Rx it without a clear bipolar diagnosis, etc.).

You seeemed to escalate an argument with me.

I responded, frustrated, I admit, by saying -- no doctor is forcing you to take Lithium or any other medicine for that matter. I have fired psychiatrists over the years, or said, "No, I'm not going to try that." I have also refused medications from other doctors for various reasons. A person can refuse chemotherapy, you can't be dragged into an oncologist's office for that either.

I spoke my mind, and I apologize if you felt attacked, but I certainly felt attacked when you were taking the discussion off somewhere else. I was tired, and I was frustrated.

I see posts here all the time about psychiatric advances or medications, and those people don't get attacked. I do.

I speak from experience, not just reading. And don't think that at conventions I haven't seen mentally ill individuals protest against psychiatry. I hate a lot of psychiatrists -- or I'd like to beat them senseless.

I don't feel welcome here anymore that's true. But now and again I stop by and see something that is clearly innaccurate -- at least from my experience, education and personal experience with individuals with many mental illneses -- bipolar to DP/DR.

I'm sorry if you felt attacked, but, I will say, using the word "assinine" -- well I wouldn't say that to anyone. If I disagree I disagree and I have feelings too, I am a human being, I still have DP, anxiety, depression. I still get stung by comments here. But I don't call anyone an "idiot, a liar, assinine, a 6th grader -- forgot who called me that one" -- and if I've ever done that I apologize.

The thread made no sense. I was very confused. It seemed as if you were baiting me.

My response was -- if you don't want to take Lithium, or any other medication, you don't have to go to a doctor. Period. And that is true. I have friends with heart problems who won't go to the doctor as they are afraid of doctors! I don't lecture them. It is their choice, their body.

Apologies.
I guess I don't belong here anymore. But I try to post corrections when I see very bad info. On the other hand, I suppose it is less and less useful.

Or I like to post undates.

What else to say? ? The thread truly makes no sense to me.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/45151-medical-article-of-a-woman-was-recovered/

My guess, is if* I *had found this very interesting article and posted it, I would be attacked. The individual who posted it has not been.

Not sure why that happens over and over and over.

Apologies. I am also working through a lot in my life, as I said, I am a human being with feelings. I get frustrated as well.

Oh, I am curious to know what my "true colors" are as well. Seriously. Why not say what you feel? I've been called just about everything in the book -- (crazy ***ch, Pig Pharma rep, lol, idiot, etc.) -- mainly over the past 5 years. Rarely in years before that. As the internet has grown, it has gotten roughter and rougher overall. So I guess that's to be expected.


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Dreamer,

I am generally not a fan of psychiatric drugs because they are addictive and there is no quantitative way to measure that they are 'fixing what's broken' but my point was that I'd recently become intrigued by lithium since it's been on the market for 50 years, been a godsend to many, and research is now indicating that it could be effective for many other things like Alzheimer's. 
I was curious if anyone on here had ever tried it, not necessarily had it prescribed for dissociative symptoms but for bipolar etc since dissociative symptoms can be comorbid and if it helped out with dissociative symptoms.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

*Wise, thank you for your response. This clears up my confusion. I will only say, your first post did ask if it helped dissociation.*



wise said:


> has anyone tried this for their dissociative symptoms?


We can agree to disagree on medications and no they are not a cure in many illnesses not just psychiatric -- think of Parkinson's, etc;, it is not clear how many work, but they can save lives, or bring people to a much greater level of functioning. Most mental illnesses are incurable, that is a fact, they can go into remission, but they return -- I could name a dozen people I know personally with bipolar (some very sick, some doing very well). Just like diabetes they are controlled, not cured. Or AIDS, not cured, but controlled with medications.

Individuals with bipolar have a very high suicide rate. Mood stabilizers save many lives, and that alone is a benefit. And patients are made aware of the risk/benefit, and many choose not to take them.

Re: Lithium. It's primary use is for mania in bipoar (or what used to be called manic-depressive disorder). It is simply an element, like iron.

"Lithium (from Greek: λίθος lithos, "stone") is a chemical element with symbol Li and atomic number 3.
Trace amounts of lithium are present in all organisms. The element serves no apparent vital biological function, since animals and plants survive in good health without it. Non-vital functions have not been ruled out. The lithium ion Li+ administered as any of several lithium salts has proved to be useful as a mood-stabilizing drug in the treatment of bipolar disorder, due to neurological effects of the ion in the human body."

*It would not be a first choice to prescribe for a dissociative disorder. The article however is very promising re: it's ability to protect neurons from degeneration.*

I would hope others weigh in on an experience with Lithium, but you would think after all of these years someone would have discovered that it helps DP/DR -- that is usually how they find one med works for other things (medical and psychiatric).

I know one person on the board here who posted some years back who has bipolar. He also had DP/DR. I don't know what he was on for the bipolar (a moos stabilizer), but he took Klonopin (clonazepam) on top of that, and the DP/DR went away. He had to remain on the mood stabilizer to control his bipolar. I have no idea how he is now. He also may have remained on the Klonopin. Don't know that either.

Also, the future benefits of Lithium are still being studied. This will take time. And I do not see any research going into Lithium testing for DP/DR. The focus is now on what was delineated in the article. And I find it very exciting. My mother had Alzheimer's, and I have a fear (in the back of my mind) that I could inherit it.

I'm glad we sorted that out.


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## kelly326 (Dec 10, 2013)

Actually dreamer the post I made, I don't feel like it was incorrect information. It was actually my mother who took it for bipolar so I have see the dangerous effects it has caused on her body. Have you ever taken it? If you haven't I don't believe that you can call my information incorrect.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

kelly326 said:


> Actually dreamer the post I made, I don't feel like it was incorrect information. It was actually my mother who took it for bipolar so I have see the dangerous effects it has caused on her body. Have you ever taken it? If you haven't I don't believe that you can call my information incorrect.


Oh my goodness. This is a sign that March is for projects not on any board.

I believe Antimony changed his post. Someone earlier said Lithium was for schizophrenia -- that is incorrect. Kelly you didn't say that.

You response related to someone you knew about, not about if it was DP/DR, and that it was very dangerous. I didn't not say YOU were incorrect.

This thread has been so confusing, and I don't understand why. We're all addressing different issues.

Firstly, yes, I have tried many, many medications over the years. I first saw a psychiatrist when I was 16 and I am now 55, so I have been through a lot of this stuff. I did try Lithium, maybe in the 1980s. It did nothing for me. As I have said, I have a metabolism that does not respond to medications one way or the other. I rarely have negative side effects, rarely get something out of them.

If Lithium had worked for DP/DR I would have stayed on it.

As I said, Lithium is not the drug of choice for dissociative disorders (it never has been to the best of my knowledge). It's key purpose is for bipolar. I'm sorry your mother has that disorder. I am very aware there are risks to taking Lithium. I know it has a lot of side effects. Today, there are more options than Lithium. There are other mood stabilizers. But for many indiividuals with serious bipolar, Lithium saves a life, keeps someone a slightly better quality of life. As I say it is risk/beneift.

I am on medications now. Lamictal, Celexa and Klonopin. I have been on Klonopin for 23 years? I don't recall. Lamictal and Celexa, maybe 10 years? I am very aware of risk and benefit of these drugs. I am also aware of the risk and benefit of ALL medications. I have had cancer. I was lucky enough to have been able to avoid chemotherapy (infusions), as I took a radical surgical approach. However, I take a hormonal cancer medication that has so many side-effects ... worse than any psychiatric med I've ever taken. Take the medication with the side-effects or risk dying from cancer. I'll take the medication. And sadly, I am unhappy with my body now as a woman.

My option? If I stop this med -- and it is my choice to take it though my oncologist leaves the decision to me -- well, if I stop it, the cancer could return. So, I choose the side-effects which I hate. My doctor, no doctor, would say you MUST take medication for cancer, even if I were dying. It is my right to refuse any medication.

As I said, I know a good number of people with bipolar. I know the horrible suffering of that disorder. And I know individuals who have been hospitalized with it, have had electroconvulsive therapy, etc. Yes.

*I never said you were incorrect. I was referring to the person who said Lithium is used for schizophrenia.*

Yup, there is a major communication problem here and I don't get it. And unfortunately, when I said this was NOT for schizoprhenia that person seems to have changed what they had posted.

I'm sorry. I should never have even to the question. OMG. Who knew?

And we are all entitled to our own opinions re: meds. And as I said, Lithium (to the best of all my knowledge) would not be a choice for DP/DR in and of itself. And no one is forced to take medication, unless they are in a situation where they are a danger to self or others and are placed on a hold in a psych ward. Even then, one can refuse medications. But if you are seriously ill you generally have little choice. If one has to be hospitalized for schizophrenia or bipolar or whatever, you are given treatment options.

Everyone must talk at length with his/her doctor to understand risk/benefit.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about your mother's situation.

If none of us had to take any medicaiton for anything, I would be very happy. If no one here had DP/DR (including myself) I would be very happy.

I can't answer any more questions. I honestly don't understand why there is so much confusion here.

Sorry.

Shouldn't have posted. And everyone is missing every point I make.

Nite. Can't sleep.


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## AMUNT (Dec 10, 2013)

*Dreamer* said:


> Oh my goodness. This is a sign that March is for projects not on any board.
> 
> I believe Antimony changed his post. Someone earlier said Lithium was for schizophrenia -- that is incorrect. Kelly you didn't say that.
> 
> ...


How has Lamictal, Celexa and Klonopin been working out for ya? wondering as im new to this DP/DR (about a year i have had it) and im new stepping into the world of meds (not taken meds before)

is there a noticable change with them?


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## shadowshudder (Sep 9, 2013)

Lithium is used in batteries.


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## kelly326 (Dec 10, 2013)

shadowshudder said:


> Lithium is used in batteries.


We should just suck on batteries!


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## shadowshudder (Sep 9, 2013)

kelly326 said:


> We should just suck on batteries!


Yeah, but that's not the point I was trying to make


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## wise (Mar 29, 2012)

Lithium can be prescribed for schizophrenia so it's not an incorrect statement. Check google.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

wise said:


> Lithium can be prescribed for schizophrenia so it's not an incorrect statement. Check google.


There's no need to argue this. Yes, that is true. Many drugs are used for a spectrum of disorders. But

1. Lithium SALTS were first used for the MANIA in bipolar, that is what it was found to help

2. I can't think of any doctor (psychiatrist or otherwise) who would prescribe Lithium for DP/DR. They would consider it if a patient presented with mania from bipolar

The question was in essense "Has anyone been helped by Lithium for DP/DR" I have not seen a post here ... unless missed it that would say so. Research also does not indicate it is helpful. Lamictal and Klonopin have been found to have results and are mentioned in the literature. SSRIs for some.

Lamictal is a more "modern" mood stabilizer which I take. Lithium did nothing for me.

Also, vs. Google -- I wish people would not self-diagnose. A better source for drug info is also Or PubMed for articles, or Google scholar. Great resource: http://www.rxlist.com

______________________________________

LITHIUM - ORAL

(LITH-ee-um)

COMMON BRAND NAME(S): Eskalith

WARNING: It is very important to have the right amount of lithium in your body. Too much lithium may lead to unwanted effects such as nausea, diarrhea, shaking of the hands, dizziness, twitching, seizures, slurred speech, confusion, or increase in the amount of urine. Tell your doctor immediately if these effects occur.

There is only a small difference between the correct amount of lithium and too much lithium. Therefore, it is important that your doctor monitor you closely during treatment. Keep all medical and laboratory appointments while you are taking lithium.

USES: T*his medication is used to treat manic-depressive disorder (bipolar disorder). It works to stabilize the mood and reduce extremes in behavior by restoring the balance of certain natural substances (neurotransmitters) in the brain.*

*Some of the benefits of continued use of this medication include decreasing how often manic episodes occur and decreasing the symptoms of manic episodes such as exaggerated feelings of well-being, feelings that others wish to harm you, irritability, anxiousness, rapid/loud speech, and aggressive/hostile behaviors.*

- Bipolar is a mood disorder and is treated with mood stabilizers.

- Schizophrenia is a very complex disorder and is treated with a different class of medication -- anti-psychotic. The original anti-psychotics being Haldol, Thorazine and Stellazine. There are more modern drugs -- such as Abilify that are used across the board.

Someone who is seriously ill (as with any medical disorder -- such as heart failure) finds a "good cocktail" to control symptoms.

No, I'm not a doctor, but I'm old, know many mentally ill people, have done a good bit of reading, and .. well I'm just old, LOL


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Per WebMD

*"Sometimes* lithium carbonate (Lithobid, Eskalith) is *added to other medicines* to treat schizophrenia. It is not clear exactly how lithium works, but it may help regulate certain brain chemicals (neurotransmitters) that cause mood changes. *Lithium carbonate may be most helpful for treating the mood problems associated with schizophrenia, such as depression."*

And re: schizoprhenia (and there may be some crossover with bipolar and schizophrenia):

http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/ss/slideshow-schizophrenia-overview


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## kelly326 (Dec 10, 2013)

shadowshudder said:


> Yeah, but that's not the point I was trying to make


I know that! It was just a joke


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## kelly326 (Dec 10, 2013)

COUNTING CROWS' ADAM DURITZ BATTLING MENTAL DISORDER

Adam Duritz
Counting Crows singer Adam Duritz is battling severe withdrawal symptoms after choosing to ween himself off mood-stabilizing drugs.

The Mr. Jones singer started taking Lithium pills to better balance his life after he was diagnosed with a form of dissociative disorder, but now the star is committed to getting off the drugs with his doctor's help, despite his body's negative reaction.

Writing on his band's Facebook.com page, he states: "Docs Friday instructions: cut Lithium dose in half - Fuck me - not so good now. Gotta keep pushing/get off this shit. Going faster than I should but it still takes too long. All my friends say how clear & present I am. 'Clear & present'. Horror. Not mutually exclusive... 
"Just to clarify: I will not be leading any kind of 'sober life' after this. These are not drug addiction problems. I was fucking crazy. I needed meds. I took meds. Now I'm less crazy. I need less meds. I'm stopping meds. That's it. These meds just happen to have some freaking vicious withdrawal symptoms when you stop so u (you) can't do it all at once (sic)".

Found this article


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

kelly326 said:


> COUNTING CROWS' ADAM DURITZ BATTLING MENTAL DISORDER
> 
> Adam Duritz
> Counting Crows singer Adam Duritz is battling severe withdrawal symptoms after choosing to ween himself off mood-stabilizing drugs.
> ...


I have a link to Durwitz' story on my website.

Again, no one here knows if he was ever properly diagnosed. And there is some question if he even has a dissociative disorder. He said he had depersonalization, but would become functional onstage.

Also, everyone here knows the hell it is to get a proper diagnosis for DP/DR. Many doctors diagnose it incorrectly.

The only doctors I know who really can say, "Oh, that's DP/DR" are neurologists -- I've been to a few and I have one as an acquaintance through my husband.

Also, nothing comes in a vacuum. Many here (and I include myself) have other comorbid disorders with DP/DR.

Common: anxiety disorders, borderline personality, OCD, bipolar itself -- virtually all mental illnesses can have DP/DR as a secondary symptom.

But if your PRIMARY complaint/symptoms are DP/DR, Lithium would not/should not be the first drug of choice. it has many negative side effects.

I would rather hear from someone here on the board who has said they had success with Lithium FOR THEIR DP/DR.

Or I would rather read a medical journal study stating that it works.

And I won't say this anymore -- someone can go to my website, but DP/DR occur in:

1. many mental illnesses

2. in epilepsy

3. in stroke patients

4. in brain trauma patients

5. in brain tumor patients

6. in individuals who take antibiotics

7. side-effects or withdrawal symptoms from various medications

For me, Lamictal (200mg) indeed helped stabilize my mood, which in the past had some qualitites of BPD, but I do not have BPD. It also helped me somewhat with my DP/DR. I tried Lithium (on a hunch initially by one psychiatrist that I had a mood dysregulation problem) -- it didn't work. It did nothing for me. Nothing good, nothing bad, and I went off of it.

The med that has helped most with the DP/DR is Klonopin.

My clinical depression has been helped with an SSRI, Lamictal, exercise, diet, meditation practices.

For many people it can take up to seven years to be properly diagnosed with DP/DR. In 1975 when it was more widely known in psychoanalysis, I was diagnosed immediately. I was also told I had depression and severe anxiety. At the time, I could find no reference to it in library books and there was no internet or anyone but my psychiatrist to talk to about it.

Duritz here states he was given Lithium, for "some dissociative disorder." I have no idea why. His withdrawal from Lithium is causing him terrible problems.

As noted, having been on this board for many years, I never heard of someone responding to Lithium re: DP/DR. Also, I am in a support group where individuals with bipolar are now given all manner of new drugs. I only know one person in the group who mentions DP/DR. Another who has severe social anxiety understands "the world feels unreal." He is a recovering alcoholic (age 72). He drank to escape his anxiety, but only had brief episodes of DP/DR through his life.

I have a friend who responded very well to Neurontin for his DP/DR but he still is anxious and depressed.

Everyone is unique.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

http://www.dreamchild.net/Blog/files/category-celebrities-with-dp.html

<---- from my website, celebrities with DP.

I don't know, save for Harris Goldberg and Vinnie Paz -- if they have a proper diagnosis.


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