# For the atheists and for the others



## Ecorvi (Oct 31, 2008)

I can't prove that God exists but you can't prove that God doesn't exist!


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

exxactly.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Discoveries in astronomy have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that the universe did, in fact, have a beginning. There was a single moment of creation.

Advances in molecular biology have revealed vast amounts of information encoded in each and every living cell, and molecular biologists have discovered thousands upon thousands of exquisitely designed machines at the molecular level. Information requires intelligence and design requires a designer.

Biochemists and mathematicians have calculated the odds against life arising from non-life naturally via unintelligent processes. The odds are astronomical. In fact, scientists aren't even sure if life could have evolved naturally via unintelligent processes. If life did not arise by chance, how did it arise?

The universe is ordered by natural laws. Where did these laws come from and what purpose do they serve?

Philosophers agree that a transcendent Law Giver is the only plausible explanation for an objective moral standard. So, ask yourself if you believe in right and wrong and then ask yourself why. Who gave you your conscience? Why does it exist?

People of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these prodigious accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

VinCi said:


> you can't prove your mother exist


That is by far the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this board.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

God is flawed; it's pretentious of Him to think that there is no higher power.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

egodeath said:


> God is flawed; it's pretentious of Him to think that there is no higher power.


All God says in the Bible about this is that he doesnt know any others. It's not pretentious to state a fact.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

Yeah, and you are halucinating us, we are not real , now piss off and give us some peace for F-cks sake.


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

3333


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

It's actually no surprise you don't see my point of view, you never experienced it did you, true connection that is?


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## Guest (Dec 24, 2008)

VinCi said:


> sorry you do not comprehend the deep philosophical point I'm trying to make.


WTF?? HAHA...sorry but HAHAHA.....you tickled me.

Can you elaborate on this deep philosophical point at all? :| ..... :lol: .......COME ON f-ing show us what all your gripeing is about for once .Anything new or same old crap.........


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## Terri (Dec 19, 2006)

[3333


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> egodeath said:
> 
> 
> > God is flawed; it's pretentious of Him to think that there is no higher power.
> ...


But it is pretentious to then claim, and I quote:

"Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One."

Translated from:
"Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad."

That's from the Old Testament. I'm not gonna go ahead and pick from the numerous examples in the New Testament. Anyways my original post was a play on the ontological argument for the existence of God. Long story short: If we can conceive of God, then certainly He must exist. If He exists, then certainly He could conceive of a much higher power than Himself, since He is so much more powerful than we. The process could continue _ad infinitum_. I argue in all my blasphemy that it would therefore be pretentious for God to then have us proclaim: "The Lord is our God, the Lord is One." I'm not trying to make a statement; I'm just fcuking with your (open your, meaning the reader of this post) mind a bit.


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## peachy (Feb 9, 2008)

ahha ohhhhhhhh no....vinci didn't just say "deep" did he?

sigh.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

egodeath said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > egodeath said:
> ...


As I've said before I enjoy studying other religions and philosophies and the ad infinitum idea of higher powers is very interesting. From what I can see it could be that way and still not contradict what I believe- The God of the Bible could very well be the only God _from the writer's point of view._


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> As I've said before I enjoy studying other religions and philosophies and the ad infinitum idea of higher powers is very interesting. From what I can see it could be that way and still not contradict what I believe- The God of the Bible could very well be the only God _from the writer's point of view._


Do you believe the Bible to be the literal word of God?


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Word for word? I wont go to that extreme- and there are extremes that will go to say that even punctuation is inspired. I dont believe the writers heard little whispers in their ears telling them the exact words to write. I do believe they were deeply moved to write the general doctrines and ideas of the Bible and that those ultimately come from God.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

Conjurus said:


> Word for word? I wont go to that extreme- and there are extremes that will go to say that even punctuation is inspired. I dont believe the writers heard little whispers in their ears telling them the exact words to write. I do believe they were deeply moved to write the general doctrines and ideas of the Bible and that those ultimately come from God.


Word. No pun intended. But yeah, I can dig that. The Bible is a great and important work and one can definitely learn something from it. I don't personally believe it to be inspired by God, whatever He may be, but I have no issue with those who do. My problem is with the idea of a benevolent and caring God that would place such a priority on peace and order and let the world go to shit...the Epicurean problem. If He's not benevolent and caring, why worship Him? (Since you liked my other post concerning this similar issue, I'd recommend reading Kurt Vonnegut's _The Sirens of Titan_ if you haven't already.) But, anyways, I can't stand people that read the Bible literally. I hope they're fluent in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Ancient Greek. And if they are, I wonder how they became so highly educated and held on to their narrow beliefs.


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## Conjurus (Oct 25, 2008)

Im sure I'd love that book. I'll have to give it a try- thanks man.


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## HereIsEverywhere (Dec 22, 2008)

egodeath said:


> Conjurus said:
> 
> 
> > Word for word? I wont go to that extreme- and there are extremes that will go to say that even punctuation is inspired. I dont believe the writers heard little whispers in their ears telling them the exact words to write. I do believe they were deeply moved to write the general doctrines and ideas of the Bible and that those ultimately come from God.
> ...


I actually had a very well educated prof (he had at least a few masters degrees and a PHD) in college who read the bible in English, Hebrew and Greek... I think... at the very least Greek, not positive about the Hebrew... but anyhow. He taught anthropology! So the class was a riot to say the least. Highly religious professor teaching us about evolution. He welcomed open debate and laughed when we got all riled up, not an evil laugh, more like a jolly "oh you kids" kind of laugh. He is open to evolution being true, but he ultimately is a Christian. It was a very eye opening experience. To see someone that knew so much about science and evolution and still be religious.

It comes to the point where I don't think that is narrow at all. I think atheists can be just as narrow as christians. Being on any end of a pole isn't usually a good thing... I think religious or not is fine as long as you don't go too crazy and become too judgmental of those on the other end.

speaking of which you should check out "The Language of God" by Francis S. Collins. Its very appropriate to what I'm talking about. He worked on the human genome project and used to be an atheist... I only read the beginning but so far very interesting...

Yes, smart, well educated people can still be religious. And you are pretty narrow yourself for thinking otherwise.


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

I never said believers are narrow-minded; I said those who interpret the Bible _literally_ are narrow minded. Huge difference. When you find me someone who reads ancient Greek and Hebrew and still believes every word of the Bible verbatim, then my mind will be blown.


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## HereIsEverywhere (Dec 22, 2008)

egodeath said:


> I never said believers are narrow-minded; I said those who interpret the Bible _literally_ are narrow minded. Huge difference. When you find me someone who reads ancient Greek and Hebrew and still believes every word of the Bible verbatim, then my mind will be blown.


Oh no... lol. Not every word. That's impossible since it is so contradictory. But yes, those that claim to believe and follow the bible literally are more often than not very narrow minded. And I have had my fair share of hair-pulling debates with people of this nature...

I'm sure someone close must exist though... though I have not met that person.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2009)

^-^


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## voidvoid (Sep 5, 2008)

Proof that there is no nor have ever been any christian/biblical god or "jesus" is all around us. And all this debating does no good unless it sets people free from religion.



> "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."


Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999


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## egodeath (Oct 27, 2008)

The...the good doctor recommends you take sev..thirteen shots of vodka and calls him in da morning.


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