# "The power of Now" By Eckhart Tolle - Evil in its roots? My story



## inkus

Hi, so just thought I'd share my short story of my DP/DR onset, since it hasn't started that long ago...I was enjoying my summer pretty much as I was planning to, going out with friends, playing sports and occupying myself with guitar and just generally being interested in self-development in all ways possible. Not to brag or anything I was always social and popular in my peer group despite having really bad anxiety at times. So one day I just decided to cope with it for once and for all and to have nothing from stopping me from living the life to the fullest of my abilities and I stumbled across this famous self development book called - "The power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle and decided to give it a try...As soon as I started reading, everything just resonated with me on such a deep level, that I was trying to absorb as much information as I could. Mainly it talked about the importance of being present to the moment and letting go of the past and the future, which only feeds our never stopping mind. So to cut it short everything just seemed to lead to a concussion that all my insecurities, worries and anxieties could be magically cured if I just managed to "quiet my mind". So I started meditating... and BOOM! I just realized the biggest epiphany that all this time i was living in a lie and there is no need for the mind or any thought, its all about inner joy and love.. I believe that was the onset of my DP/DR symptoms since from that moment my mind just became blank and what seemed real before - friends, goals, passions became redundant and unreal. And to me what some budhists would probably consider "spiritual enlightenment" suddenly became a hell..It hasn't been too long since it happened, but I already feel the impacts of it on my everyday life and I just want to go back to the old me..I was about to start my college studies in September, but with these sudden dramatic changes I really start to doubt if I can make it through...If anyone can provide any help or suggestions with my situation that would be greatly appreciated.. P.S. On the bright side, seems like I've treated my anxiety...


----------



## inkus

Vortimi said:


> Fuck Eckhart Tolle. Because of him I completely messed up my sense of time and I can't get rid of it. Living in now is completely bullshit, you can't live your life without memories and plans for the future. You know who lives in now? Animals, they don't have sense of time, so they live in present. This man's books should be banned.


Oh Man, I am so feeling you on this, its like being present to the moment at times is absolutely normal and important but like you said - what is now without the past or the future - eternity? But we don't live in a fricking eternity, life is short..So I believe some of his thoughts to be truly flawed and delusional.. Memories and plans really shape us into who we are and such high positive emotions like hope, empathy, compassion, gratitude would not be existent without them.. Glad to hear I am not alone brother, hope we regain what we've lost..


----------



## JustRose

Vortimi said:


> I'm a woman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because of this "living in now" bullshit my life doesn't have logical sense anymore, every moment comes from some kind of void, and it is coming back to the void immediately. I feel like I'm living on a ground, that is collapsing behind me.


It's true, I agree with you. I have people telling them that I'm unable to see the "bigger picture" because I won't allow myself to properly think of the future or the implications of what I do. The clouded judgement doesn't help I have to say. We have to remember that the past and the future are important too but also that being in the present has the most flexibility and we can do the most with it. So as to act in such a way that we keep in mind the affects of what we do will have. It is a struggle though cos many of us have fear in our way. I think that the only way you can view the past in a positive light, is as something to build upon or you can get too immersed in it. To have a little reminisce about good times is alright too obviously but with the depressive nature of this it can be hard to stop. I hope that what I'm saying makes sense and also that things will begin to look up for you, Vortimi.


----------



## Guest

Vortimi said:


> Being in the present is important, but it's very unhealthy and dangerous to be detached from your memories and not thinking about the future leads to living under the bridge in a carton box. That's why it's impossible to live only in now unless you are a monk and you don't have to provide for yourself. Or you are Tolle and you are making money on your mind-fucking books.


Hey same shit happened to me.... I think the book led us to try to escape our anxiety. It fucked my mind beyond comprehension especially when i smoked weed. Eckhart tolle is a fuckin ****** and if i met him in real life id fuck his shit up.

zoloft, klonopin, weed, alcohol, redbull makes life somewhat tolerable


----------



## Guest

Vortimi said:


> Being in the present is important, but it's very unhealthy and dangerous to be detached from your memories and not thinking about the future leads to living under the bridge in a carton box. That's why it's impossible to live only in now unless you are a monk and you don't have to provide for yourself. Or you are Tolle and you are making money on your mind-fucking books.


Hey same shit happened to me.... I think the book led us to try to escape our anxiety. It fucked my mind beyond comprehension especially when i smoked weed. Eckhart tolle is a fuckin ****** and if i met him in real life id fuck his shit up.

zoloft, klonopin, weed, alcohol, redbull makes life somewhat tolerable


----------



## Guest

I just want to drop my 2 cents here,

*The EGO is Important.*

You are not your hand, but your hand is part of you.

Are you going to amputate your hand because it is not "you"?

Same deal with the ego.


----------



## Guest

I think alot of what Tolle says is not to live by but noone can blame him for getting dp. Thats our own fault.


----------



## inkus

Fearless said:


> I do know, but I just said that I think these are just nonsense. You can mediate 24/7, I will be still me and you will be still you, we are all unique individual souls and it's just cool as it is.


Exactly, amen my friend, I feel like some of these spiritual gurus use meditation as a way of ESCAPING reality, rather than reconnecting with your deeper self, which can be a real cause for DP/DR. Its good to have a positive mindset, but its always better to remember that life isn't without any pain, and there is no such thing as eternal joy and happiness at least on earth..I've been trying to reconnect with my thought patterns before I read the book and I'm glad to say I feel a dramatic improvement, it feels like once you start getting back to your normal thinking, despite the symptoms, your brain starts to slowly re-balance all the chemicals into their proper state and it's sort of coming down from this "LA LA" land. The trick is to reconnect with your genuine thoughts and experiences that made you who you are now, be it negative or positive ones and stick with them, just stick no matter what you see around you..so far it seems like my DP has improved dramatically in a matter of days with this technique..


----------



## inkus

amireal said:


> I think alot of what Tolle says is not to live by but noone can blame him for getting dp. Thats our own fault.


Very true, but in all honesty I believe it's good to raise awareness that some self-development "spiritual" stuff out there should be approached with caution and doubt. Life is a journey and its YOUR JOURNEY, don't let anyone mess with it.


----------



## Mr Instead

I think reading such a book is quite problematic for people with dp because they already feel like they are not yourself. Could be an implication that dp is what tolle claims to be as truth or consciousness. 
I read it myself and got a conclusion:
What tolle teaches is a way to achieve the buddhistic state of enlightenment - nothing more. If you try to understand it with the mind and hang yourself up on certain words or formulations that make you angry or upset you will not get it. That's what he basically says in the books: the words are just for a thing that he calls "deeper consciousness", some kind of deeper unio mystica layer in the consciousness. 
I think this is a book that can only be understood with the heart. 
Like it or not - it helped many many people with their lifes. I am one of these persons. He simply tells you not to carry all your negative emotions with you for the rest of your life because there is always just one moment: the here and the now. Anything else is literally a projection of the mind. When do you remember things of the past? Now! When do you make your plans? Now! There is nothing else than now. Maybe some people here just get upset because the awareness of this is something that is hard to achieve for dp people even for Seconds. so i am. But that book really helped me on my way.


----------



## Mr Instead

*the words are just hints for a thing...


----------



## Haumea

> What tolle teaches is a way to achieve the buddhistic state of enlightenment - nothing more. If you try to understand it with the mind and hang yourself up on certain words or formulations that make you angry or upset you will not get it.


Bingo. There's nothing wrong with his teachings - what happens is that people take his teachings as a mind-form and it creates an emotional response in them. They're not something to believe in, they are something to experience.

He's basically talking about the "silent observer" behind the ego. The higher self which does not identify with your thoughts, possessions, relationships, etc., but is the space in which these forms pass in and out of your life.

If you're suffering emotionally, you have not reached this state. There is no suffering in this state. The teachings have simply gone to your ego and you had an emotional response. You're not actually practicing being in the now.

Suffering only exists in the egoic mind because it is attached to the impermanent forms of the world.


----------



## Guest

I don't understand the good behind just flat out eliminating ones ability to suffer, or severing the connections with a sense of self that allows it to exists. The self gives us direction in life as we try to fulfill its desires and is what colors our experience of the world thus making it meaningful, while suffering on any level is what keeps us moving forward and advancing. The only reason that people would advocate for eliminating the concept of self and the ability to suffer that I can think of is because they see both largely for the harm they cause, and think humanity would be better off without them. As if eliminating the ability to suffer is better than fixing what causes the suffering through our sense of self and advancing. But, there will always be more suffering, and advancement dose not have any end to it which makes it seem pointless, but the point is really to give our existence a purpose. Further, if you eliminate suffering happiness also becomes fairly meaningless as well, simply because their would be no suffering to move away from and become happy for doing such. More so, people achieve happiness by fulfilling goals created by having a self. Eliminating suffering and the self wouldn't make us happy or better off, it would just take the meaning out of life.

So, I'm going to happily hold onto my sense of self, even if it dose cause me to suffer.


----------



## Haumea

> I don't understand the good behind just flat out eliminating ones ability to suffer, or severing the connections with a sense of self that allows it to exists.


Well, then why are you here? DP is a form of suffering.

You don't see the good behind it because it threatens your ego. Suffering must be part of your identity, and you feel if you lose it, you'll cease to exist.

You're not aware that suffering is entirely optional.


----------



## missjess

I completely agree with and understand Eric's teachings...

He conquered his "mind" which means he sees past the illusion, the illusion of seperstion the mind is what got everyone fucked up in the first place, the mind makes judgements, the mind perceives things inaccurately and makes up false beliefs. Once you can detach yourself from your negative thoughts and move past them you begin to see tht you are more then just your mind and ego. You have always been spirit.

It is the mot amazing feeling in the world, when I got out of dp once I had conquered my mind too.


----------



## missjess

This is the highest consciousness one can reach


----------



## Guest

I try and see both the good and bad in things; suffering has both positive and negatives. Yes I'm suffering because of DP, but that suffering is what motivates me to improve myself. Would I be suffering at all without an ego; probably not, but with it there is also the opportunity the opportunity experience the great happiness.

Everything humanity is has been based around the ego since our dawn, and since ego is a pointless illusion in Tole's mind, then so is everything humanity has accomplished in the past 100,000 years. The reality is that, yes; everything humanity has done is pointless because it's based on something that's nothing more than non-tangible concept with absolutely no true end goal, but anybody who cares to think about such things could figure that out, I did years ago. So, life is a pointless game; we all know that on some level, that leaves us with a decision to play it or not. All tole is doing by saying the ego and self are illusions is reminding everybody that this all just a senseless game and he thinks everyone should stop playing. Why? Because not everyone wins? Because no matter how well we do, we will always suffer on some level? It all balances out when time is taken to look at all of humanities fantastic accomplishments, but most people can hardly look past the bad to see the good in things. We have an ego, a self and suffer for a reason, because without them we would all still be living out in the wild eating berries and and scavenging animal corpses.

Suffering is a necessary part of the pointless game that is living for living's sake. Since life has no true purpose we have an ego so that we can make a purpose for ourselves and put our intelligence to use for something other than thinking about how life has no real purpose.

So, I've given my view on why humanity needs the ego and suffering, but I want to hear what you two think the would would be like without either.


----------



## King Baba

Eckhart's story of having a mental breakdown and becoming "enlightened" leaves a lot of the negative aspects of this kind of change in consciousness out of focus.

That loss of identity with your thoughts and your mind is exactly what he talked about when his "breakthrough" happened and exactly what I had -- that psychological vacuum that pulled you into that soulless state. If you read stories about traumatic incidents - like a car accident - people express a sort of detached, blissful, out of time state during the accident. The reason this happens is to protect you from pain. His suicidal depression was traumatic, therefore he temporarily dissociated from himself to stop the pain - but that doesn't mean that state of mind should be intentionally prolonged through any sort of methods as it is similar to a drug. That nihilistic/empty state is not something to aspire towards. It's not a sustainable, functional state of existence and it leads nowhere.

There are some benefits to this psychological occurrence, as certain prejudices and complexes you once had may have dissolved.

But the idea that you should STOP thinking is exactly what cults and totalitarian dictatorships use to brainwash their victims. You need your mind to survive. He talked about living blissfully on a park bench for a few years without a job or social identity. How did he eat? Did he cook field mice? Where did he get the money for food? You need to think in order to survive. If we didn't have brains we'd be lifeless vegetables, which is exactly what he recommends.

Of course there comes a point where we might become obsessive with our thoughts and our minds might be clustered - but there are other ways to sort this out besides dissociating yourself from yourself.

What we need to do is to reintegrate our minds and engage in things that will keep us active. Sitting on a park bench is not one of those things.

I think what he said should be taken with a grain of salt or else it can be harmful and disadvantageous to recovery.


----------



## missjess

It's deff not the easy way out .... As I said this is how I got out of DP before by moving past the mind and expressing myself

Once u reach that state and no longer identify with ego it is the most amazing state in the world.


----------



## Guest

I still don't understand why people see their ego and unique view of the world as something terrible that has to be discarded in order to obtain some sort of true happiness. All people are seeing is the bad side of their ego to the point where nobody is considering who good and crucial it is. Working with your ego will bring bliss and suffering; you can't just remove the ego thinking that it will only eliminate suffering. Just because you're dealing with the bad side of your ego right now dose not mean it has to be thrown out.

What are you all even defining ego as?


----------



## Guest

I've been defining ego as a person's sense of self and personnel identity in this debate; that is what I can't understand people wanting to discard. If we're calling ego our self-perception, or how we view ourselves as opposed to who we truly are then, yes; I agree it's something that should be worked though, because many people have a very poor self-perception that is not based in reality by any means.

That's much different then simply removing the ability to suffer by severing any sense of self, which is what I opposed, and thought we were discussing.


----------



## Your_Lordship

Good luck with everything.


----------



## Guest

I got uppity because I was getting some of the enlightened-higher-superior-thinking vibes from Tole. I'm not in agreement with the idea that their are in anyway higher levels of thinking or awareness that are distinctive from how everyone else thinks, especially when the person claiming to be just that says they spontaneously moved into a higher level of thought. My view of an enlightened or higher thinking person is someone who has spent their life gathering knowledge and wisdom and formulated a unique view of existence that may be hard for the less worldly to understand.


----------



## Midnight

Ego is the psychological sense of being a person, a separate agent, a doer of actions, a thinker of thoughts etc.

Its a facade and does not exist outside of thought. It was that realization that brought me to depersonalization.
Whether or not that was the root cause has yet to be seen, but im 100% sure it was involved. This hasnt happened to many ive spoken to with regards to Eckharts teachings however.

There was no peace or Samadhi for me as Tolle reported, though simple actions like speaking and cooking were difficult for a few weeks after. Ive never been the same since.

Though for some, perhaps they are living in bliss.

Fearless - just because he is wealthy doesnt mean he has internal identity... inside he is empty of ego, though externally he is a person like any other.
Few people actually understand his works, just like the Upanishads, Bhagavadgita or anything that points to emptiness.


----------



## Guest

I'm open to anything being possible, and I do know that there is more to reality than what I can perceive. For me it's a matter of how possible I think something is and applying that to people entering a higher level of thought or perception distinct or vastly superior from our own, I say it's very unlikely.


----------



## Guest

How have you been doing, Susto? I don't think I've ever seen you discuss your situation with DP.

As for me, my main issue is that I don't do anything about the more chronic issues in my life; if I'm in a bad situation I stay in it no matter how easy it would be to move on. It's something I picked up in school from trying to make friends with my bullies and how I dealt with the fact that no matter how crappy things got with my classmates I had no choice but to come in to school with them the next day anyway. I never felt I had any power to change my bad situations growing up, and with DP it's no different even though it's well with in my capability to do so. I'm so used to being in shitty ruts like this that it's almost comfortable, much as I hate that.


----------



## Midnight

Yeah dp isnt an awakened state of connectedness with the universe, that much is obvious. Still doesnt bring us any closer to curing it though does it? Until then we are fucked..


----------



## Guest

I don't think running off to another country for however many months and expecting the act of traveling to cure you was a good idea. If you can't accept and stop fearing DP then the actions you take will have little if any impact on it. The point of traveling is to take your mind off of DP, but if you're still fearfully monitoring it then that's simply not going to work. Distraction won't eliminate the DP feelings, it will help you not care about them until they subside.


----------



## Guest

Fair enough. Better to be going up and down on a roller coaster then not moving at all.


----------



## Midnight

Antimony said:


> I don't think running off to another country for however many months and expecting the act of traveling to cure you was a good idea. If you can't accept and stop fearing DP then the actions you take will have little if any impact on it. The point of traveling is to take your mind off of DP, but if you're still fearfully monitoring it then that's simply not going to work. Distraction won't eliminate the DP feelings, it will help you not care about them until they subside.


I didnt come here expecting to be cured. I dont see how I can be cured tbh. My life is fucked. I have exhausted my mind thinking of ways to resolve this, was I abused? Do i have a tumor? Is this ego death? Bla bla bla.

Im not 'scared' of the dp feelings, im just sick of it. It angers me constantly. No matter whether im thinking about it or not, it is there, so no, distraction doesnt work


----------



## Midnight

Eh?


----------



## missjess

Because I already told u when I moved back in with my mother all the work that I had done reversed. But let me tell u I got out of it 4 sure.

I've been disheartened ever since.


----------



## missjess

I never said that Eric is the ultimate cure lol

I said I got to the state that he was talking about once but not by using his method by doing the method I did with my counselor which involved moving past the mind and changing my beliefs and conditioning


----------



## missjess

Well that's ur opinion u don't know me and u don't know about my life and wat I've done.


----------



## Midnight

missjess said:


> I never said that Eric is the ultimate cure lol
> 
> I said I got to the state that he was talking about once but not by using his method by doing the method I did with my counselor which involved moving past the mind and changing my beliefs and conditioning


Its Eckhart not Eric fs


----------



## missjess

Ok let's all pick on Missjess !!

My god midnight get over urself I spelt a name fucking wrong so what


----------



## Guest

.


----------



## Guest

.


----------



## King Baba

I wonder if eric gets off at night knowing all the controversy he causes


----------



## missjess

Susto said:


> Missjess I dont think what you experienced was truly enlightenment but I think your getting there. Once you get back to that state you said, changing your beliefs will be easy because you will realize many of them are not truthful.


Susto I did experience enlightenment as strange as that may sound !! But yeah it was the best feeling I have ever felt in my whole entire life


----------



## Guest

.


----------



## Guest

@Susto


----------



## Guest

@Delicate

...as the actress said the bishop!


----------



## Guest

.


----------



## Guest

Fearless said:


> Install a freaking CAPTCHA for God's sake.
> 
> http://www.google.com/recaptcha


Alright Fearless, don't wet your knickers.


----------



## Midnight

missjess said:


> Susto I did experience enlightenment as strange as that may sound !! But yeah it was the best feeling I have ever felt in my whole entire life


Enlightenment isnt a feeling Missjess. Enlightenment is the realization of the witness, nothing related to physical feelings etc.


----------



## Guest

.


----------



## Guest

Midnight said:


> Enlightenment isnt a feeling Missjess. Enlightenment is the realization of the witness, nothing related to physical feelings etc.


I disagree. You say it's "realisation of the witness," but that sounds like a concept - an intellectual conceit.

Unless enlightenment is intellectual, it must be more akin to a feeling.

A realisation cannot happen without feeling. Without feeling it is just a thought.


----------



## Midnight

Phantasm said:


> I disagree. You say it's "realisation of the witness," but that sounds like a concept - an intellectual conceit.
> 
> Unless enlightenment is intellectual, it must be more akin to a feeling.
> 
> A realisation cannot happen without feeling. Without feeling it is just a thought.


Wrong.

There is something prior to feelings and thoughts, so it is neither. Even saying 'it' is wrong because that makes it sound like an object, which it isnt, because it is the perceiver of objects itself. Without 'that' objects cannot be known or unknown.


----------



## hope.is.here

Hi,

Trust me, you're definitely not alone in this. You sound a lot like me and I was interested in meditation//esoteric/spiritual stuff since I was around 12. I've even studied under a world famous guru, underwent Shaktiput, had "kundalini" awakening...all that jazz...and then I pretty much went insane (not to scare you) and exhibited just about every symptom of every mental illness...and this hell lasted about 3-4 years and only now I'm out of it. The thing is, most people don't understand how dangerous meditation can actually be. Some people, once separated from their bodies in a DP state, will never make it back (you don't sound like you're in too deep yet so I would stop all this stuff ASAP if I was you--bc I was you honestly). Everyone thinks it's all fun and games and yoga and all the ancient spiritual paths have become mainstream and popularized but it's like playing with fire...guess what, after I recovered, I found out that several people in the ashram I used to visit have been to mental hospitals and have developed Schizophrenia since "opening their minds"...Anyways, since then, I've became Christian, gotten back to my Orthodox roots and overhauled my diet and lifestyle big time. I never used to be a believer but since the hell on Earth I went through, I can definitely say that I am.

Oh, and not to sound dramatic (bc some ppl will be like, "you're being overdramatic"), engaging in esoteric stuff has driven many people to suicide (I've tried it several times) and hell is real. Really wish it wasn't and am not going to tell how you how I know it's real...but it's worse than the worst horror movie you've ever seen or the worst nightmare you've had combined (there are some ppl who died and make it back..)


----------



## Midnight

Susto said:


> I agree with you that it is the 'I AM' which comes prior to any thought or feeling, but in my perspective I disagree with it being the 'witness' state. Supposedly, enlightenment is state of being at One with life, hence there is no separation of witness and objects (thought, feelings etc) being perceived. All is One, One is All.
> 
> DP on the other hand sounds a lot like the witness state..


Well to me it feels like mental illness. Everything does feel like 'one', but its not pleasurable, separation is pleasurable because its familiar.


----------



## missjess

Midnight said:


> Enlightenment isnt a feeling Missjess. Enlightenment is the realization of the witness, nothing related to physical feelings etc.


Yeah and that's what I experienced...who said anything about a feeling?

Enlightenment is this: feeling whole,feeling one with everything, knowing that you are not separate, knowing that u are more then ur mind and thoughts. Enlightenment is the transcendence of suffering...the realization that suffering is a illusion made up by the mind & ego....it's a deep feeling of being spiritually connected with ur own inner being and seeing through everyone's mask and conditioning..


----------



## missjess

Including ur own


----------



## Guest

Midnight said:


> Wrong.
> 
> There is something prior to feelings and thoughts, so it is neither. Even saying 'it' is wrong because that makes it sound like an object, which it isnt, because it is the perceiver of objects itself. Without 'that' objects cannot be known or unknown.


It's funny you wrote "Wrong", as I nearly wrote exactly that in response to your post!

I said it was more akin to feeling, not that it was simple emotion, meaning that it must be "felt" in some sense to be experienced, or what is left to experience anything? Many exercises are about stopping thought, so following the absence of thought it must be experiential.

Conceptualising it is moving away from that state, which I think is a simple, undifferentiated state of oneness with self and the world around us. A natural sense of harmony.The more you conceptualise it in grand terms, the further you move away from that. It is more like a presence, sense or state, that has to be experienced directly.


----------



## Guest

.


----------



## King Baba

Fearless said:


> Agree.
> 
> Just like trying to medicate yourself out of DP, trying to deal with spiritual stuff as an (admitted or denied) attempt to solve DP is just another self-deception.
> 
> I know a lot of you believe that these feelings are indication is "spiritual specialness". Sorry to break your fantasy world, but what you experience is emotional reasoning and egoism. *You are not that great that you just acquire "enlightenment" (whatever that is) out of nothing.* I know that a part of you wants to believe that you are that great, but the harsh reality is that you are suffering from depersonalization (closer to the opposite).
> 
> Even if you believe in enlightenment, you have to understand that those monks are meditating for decades for a reason. No, you're not better than them.
> 
> Yes, you ARE special, you've probably been through a bad childhood, and have a lot of bad experience, which is a great standard to compare better experiences.


To negate that entire aspect of yourself, as a human being (not only as someone who has dp) really diminishes and materializes the experience of life. What a lot of people experience on here is written down in spiritual texts. It doesn't mean that you're "special" or better than others because you're experiencing this, but I think there is a certain awareness of yourself and of life that can only occur through an experience like this.

What you're doing is applying a text book definition to a human experience -- which has no emotional meaning to the person reading it.


----------



## Midnight

King Baba said:


> To negate that entire aspect of yourself, as a human being (not only as someone who has dp) really diminishes and materializes the experience of life. What a lot of people experience on here is written down in spiritual texts. It doesn't mean that you're "special" or better than others because you're experiencing this, but I think there is a certain awareness of yourself and of life that can only occur through an experience like this.
> 
> What you're doing is applying a text book definition to a human experience -- which has no emotional meaning to the person reading it.


I tend to agree, but Fearless is in full ego mode all the time so wont be able to acknowledge what your saying, probably trying to make up for lost time!

It's pointed to in spiritual texts and all over the internet, but the thing that gets me is - if this is the result of inner contemplation and realization, then what the fuck is anyone doing reading spiritual books or seeking it? This is HORRIBLE, fact, so why is everyone chasing it?

Having said that, I'm not even sure if I realized anything, but fuck, I've even read that some people can experience full blown psychosis after sitting in silence for hours on end. It's not a solution to ones problems.


----------



## Guest

King Baba, I liked your phrase about a human experience, which is sort of what I trying to say.

Midnight, I wasn't trying to have a pop at you or anything, it's just that I've read some of your posts in which you talked about how you have not been able to think of a solution. I get the sense that you are locked into your head, so you are very "head-based" and because of that your feelings are frozen. That's how I was, and I expect how it is for many. We take refuge in a cognitive castle we built in our minds so that everything is thoroughly filtered before it reaches us. It leaves us completely unbalanced, ungrounded and disturbed. It seems safer, living in our heads, but it keeps us, and our feelings frozen in a bad place. That state will then define how we interpret and experience everything else, be it spiritual or otherwise (there's no real distinction in the end). So I was using the subject to make the point that we cannot think our way through these things -locked away in a house of concepts- but that we have to start letting things in and directly experiencing them. "Enlightenment" is a very loaded word, but I believe it is nothing more than a simple, direct relationship with life.

Everything's always right under our nose.


----------



## Midnight

r0la said:


> This is off topic but i wanted to ask you. How come when i listen to music back in the old days like getting nostalgic i start to realize the things i've mesed up or like an old movie song like when i was a child it makes me feel sad and like shit. Is it because i believe i didn't have a proper emotional upbringing or is it that i feel i never tried hard enough or that i missed out/?
> 
> Also this is one of my biggest problems. When i go to a therapist i become emotionally numb. I forget about my past experiences, can't drop my facade down and i seem normal. It's like my bodys trying to please them. IT's like my body tells me nothing is wrong with you you idiot and i always smile through therapy even more and more. wtf is this shit why and when i go home and or go outside i feel my emotions right back
> 
> also i read this from one of your blogs
> 
> read this 1000 times from word to word: i kept reading it til i became to feel different. But my mind told me that if you keep on reading it ill exhaust you then feelings of exhaust came into play and then it was like move one to something else or this new outlook will die down.i realize im doing this but its so dam hard...do you have an efficient program on how to do these things cuz i start to jus go back into it
> 
> *Your emotions ARE NOT A PUZZLE TO SOLVE. They are a part of YOU. The strong belief in DPd people, that their emotions contain some secret message which need to be solved to recover, is a FALSE BELIEF, it is ITSELF the very dysfunctional belief which are making your DP stay, in every moment. And they are NEVER EVER a sign of danger.*


I'm exactly the same with my therapist
I always act like nothing's wrong and end up having a laugh with her. What does this mean?


----------



## Midnight

Fearless said:


> That's how people who grew up in a dysfunctional family think things go. You're conditioned to swallow. You're conditioned to live with a weight on your shoulder, and carrying constant emotional problems on your back is what you think is the way to go.
> 
> Other reason can be that you are scared to face your issues. That can happen in 0.1 second, without you being aware of the fact that you retreated again.


Ok. One thing that confuses me here is that you have said in the past that people underestimate how subtle abuse can be - yet on this Site all I seem to see is extreme cases, even your own. So really, how is it subtle in any way? I read Harrington and it begins to make sense, but then suddenly he will mention his brother's death etc, and I can't relate anymore. So what exactly is a dysfunctional family? Because when I read others on here I can't relate but you are saying im behaving like someone from this kind of family...


----------



## Midnight

Fearless said:


> I surely believe that you can aquire DP without going through any obvious or huge trauma. The main thing behind DP is the idea that you are worthless, not loved, not accepted, with no right to feel or exist.


See, that makes sense to me. Recently after travelling ive come to the realizations that involve all these things you just mentioned, such as that before I always thought I wanted sex from girls, but actually I wanted approval and validation from both them and my peers and family more than I wanted them sexually, so I actually seek validation above other things. So this means that I am approval seeking constantly, because I remember in school always wanting attention and compliments. Then on the flip side, when I recieved this attention or compliments, I couldn't handle it and didn't want it anymore, same way I act with women.

Now, on paper you could say that this was from what... not recieving enough parental affection? But in my mind, I always felt like I did, but the past is blurry in my mind so its hard to investigate.

So again, what I'm saying is, it makes sense and applies to me personally, but then the whole idea of trauma comes into the picture and I feel like I cant relate once again, like I sit down and take a look back into my mind, and I can't sense it or find it...


----------



## Guest

You can't just look at trauma from an adult perspective, because it is so much easier for a child to become traumatized then it would be for an adult. Think of it this way; the things that scared you when you were little, like thunder, probably don't bother you now and from your adult perspective it was silly to ever be afraid of it, but to a child it was something truly terrifying.

I have two traumatic things I can recall from my childhood, but my memory has always been very vague and fragmented, so I wouldn't be surprised if their are more.

One time I was in a play room at my preschool and I got into a tugging match over a toy and accidentally hit some sort of panic button on the wall that called the police. The teacher didn't let me explain myself and dragged me out of the room and kept telling me that the police were coming to take me to jail. Now I know that I wasn't in any real danger, but when I was 4 that whole event scared the crap out of me. As a result I get intense waves of panic when I see children's toys; I never knew why that was until I remembered what had happened. There was a trend in my childhood of getting punished and scolded for simple mistakes and misunderstandings without ever having the chance to explain myself.

Secondly; my father would always yell at me when he was angry and it terrified me to the point I pretty much shut down when I'm around people who are angry; this is still a serious problem for me. I also had sever issues with purely verbal bullying for most of the time I was in school, and nobody I felt I could turn to for help or support.


----------



## Midnight

There is no alcoholism in my family. My mum described not recognising her own voice in adolescence and has been very up and down through the years, threatened to leave my dad and they used to fight like hell. Ive definitely got narssisistic grandiosity.
So does this make me a candidate?


----------



## Midnight

Vortimi said:


> Did they fight violently? Did you feel threatened during them? Did you feel that you want to disappear when they occurred? Did your parents ever made you feel like they are fighting because of you? Did they fight physically? Did they destroy objects during those fights? When your mother had her mood swings, did you ever feel that was because of something that you said or done?


No violence. Didn't feel threatened, just used to go to my room. Alot of my mates have parents who divorced and hate eachother, some of them smoked weed constantly day in day out and never got DP/DR. A friend of mine used to have 3 bongs before work just to get through the day.

They didn't destroy objects.

Yes sometimes I felt it was something I'd said or done, but now I recognise she just had emotional issues. Mainly it was through my Dad not liking her Mother, so he would make it plainly clear and this would upset her.


----------



## Guest

If you throw ten people into the same situation, say divorced parents, they will all react differently and take away unique wounds. There is no basic, standard template for how a person will respond to any given situation. What matters is how your situations affected you, how you reacted, and how you felt. You need accept that feeling the way you do is proper; just because other people have been through worse, or came out of the same situation you've been through but less harmed, dose not mean how you feel and reacted is any way wrong or less valid.


----------



## Fluke93

I have his book on my shelf. Read about 10 pages had a flick through and to be honest he bores the hell out of me. I posted a thread on here years ago about how i though he may have DP? Fuck knows.


----------



## Midnight

Fearless said:


> Two grown up people who love each other (or at least themselves) don't fight.


That's absolute bullshit. I agree with some of what you wrote, but most of it just seems like a fucking tarot card reading tbh.

How can you not see how untrue that is? Couples fight, have done throughout history, do now and always will. How can 2 sane human beings live under the same roof for years and not fight even once?


----------



## Guest

Having a little spat every once in a while is normal, but having regular screaming matches, or anything like that, is not. I've lived with my parents for 20 years and I can count on one hand how many times they fought.


----------



## Midnight

Fearless said:


> Uhh, there goes the idea about families and relationships that your parents and your childhood taught you. I'm not surprised that you are confused about your family dysfunction. You can't even imagine a family without fighting.
> 
> Two emotionally grown up people don't fight with each other, they take responsibility for their lives, have high emotional skills, and probably love each other, not depending on each other (taking advantage out of selfishness) like your parents do, etc..
> 
> I suggest you to learn about these things, or you will create the same type of dysfunctional family your parents did.
> 
> The fact that you got that emotional is in itself something that's worth to think about.


What's happened here is, you have made an assessment based on what I wrote, which was not alot, as I tried to be brief. That's fair enough, assess away, but I didn't even mention how often it was or when. They went through a bad patch when I was about 14/15, but for years after they have been getting along really well and have gone on plenty of holidays together etc.

I still don't feel a connection between childhood and my current state, I relate much more to the idea that my troubles started in adolescence.


----------



## Guest

Some of us were discussing that the role of emotional abuse/issues outside of childhood or immediate family are often ignored. I think in quite a few cases the bulk of peoples emotional issues were caused by bullying or other issues outside of their family. Even if the parents played a role in setting up their child to be more vulnerable to bullying on some level, the bulk of the damage still would have been done by the act of bullying, which would make that a more valuable area to target when looking to heal from past emotionally traumatic events.

In my case, I certainly had issues with my parents, but that was every once in a while; the bullying happened every day for several years.


----------



## Midnight

Antimony said:


> Some of us were discussing that the role of emotional abuse/issues outside of childhood or immediate family are often ignored. I think in quite a few cases the bulk of peoples emotional issues were caused by bullying or other issues outside of their family. Even if the parents played a role in setting up their child to be more vulnerable to bullying on some level, the bulk of the damage still would have been done by the act of bullying, which would make that a more valuable area to target when looking to heal from past emotionally traumatic events.
> 
> In my case, I certainly had issues with my parents, but that was every once in a while; the bullying happened every day for several years.


Sorry to hear that Antimony. I personally didn't experience that but I can see why this would have affected you strongly. Ever seen a therapist?

Best of luck


----------



## Guest

You said your troubles started in adolescence, what troubles might those have been?


----------

