# Disscussion of Dr. Simeon's New DP Book - Feeling Unreal



## lacuevadeloso

Just got my copy, so excited!! Got it from Amazon (1 day delivery, of course, hehehe).

I look forward to hear opinions from members on the book.

Good luck!!!


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## freesong

Thanks for letting us know. Will be reading it free of charge at Barnes and Noble when it gets in. LOL hehe I am excited too.


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## nobody

which book? please let me know..
andy


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## Kelson12

I just received my copy of this book as well. Somewhat afraid to read it in fear that it may scare me a little bit, but I will glance through it.


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## 1A

nobody said:


> which book? please let me know..
> andy


"Feeling Unreal" (indicated in the title bar).


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## Kelson12

1A said:


> nobody said:
> 
> 
> 
> which book? please let me know..
> andy
> 
> 
> 
> "Feeling Unreal" (indicated in the title bar).
Click to expand...

Gotta be a little more specific 1A....

The book is called "Feeling Unreal-Depersonalization and the Loss of Self" by Dr. Daphne Simeon a doctor who has done a great amount of research on DP. You can find it on Amazon as well as other sites I believe.


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## jc

'feeling out of it is unreal' i think thats a better title eh


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## enigma

Just received an e-mail notification from Amazon.com.

My copy is on its way.  (Ordered it nearly a _year_ ago, lol!)

e


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## Dreamer

kelson12 said:


> I just received my copy of this book as well. Somewhat afraid to read it in fear that it may scare me a little bit, but I will glance through it.


Got my copy today. I've been waiting, well really 47 years for this! I'm also scared to read it, lol. :shock:

I have glanced through and it looks like it an excellent compilation of information with questions and answers, helpful to professionals and to US. Weekend reading. I'll look at it tomorrow. I've been too stressed recently to have a good look.

For all of us.... one day at a time. But this book looks like a quick read. And people should request it at their libraries.

It is the ONLY book of its kind. I'm again hoping that the NAMI Convention 2007, which Dr. Simeon has agreed to attend, will give her a chance to talk to a very big audience about this.

My shrink is interested in this as well. He gets it after I do. And he's becoming a fellow in geriatric psychiatry in July  so I can give this to my new resident. They new young doctors are interested in this stuff. So far, I've found that at the U. Hospital I go to for therapy and group.

Best,
Dreamer
I'm scared shitless to read it and I don't know why! :shock: Kelson I feel like you!


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## Dreamer

enigma said:


> Just received an e-mail notification from Amazon.com.
> 
> My copy is on its way.  (Ordered it nearly a _year_ ago, lol!)
> 
> e


I have mine now as I noted the order date. I ordered it on November 11, 2004, that's FOUR... doesn't seem possible... so I was first in line I guess. Publishing is a rough business.

:?


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## livinginhell333

yea i told my shrink about this too she said she was gonna order it from amazon and take a look.


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## Methusala

Im also a little aprehensive to read the book. I finaly got it last night after many delays in releasing it by the publisher, why did they do that? I'm aprehensive because when I'v read professional psych books in the past, a lot of pretty unpleasent stuff came up. I think I will read this one gradually. Dr Ross says that 'mourning the loss of the parents one never had' is a fundamental way of healing dissociation. That type of thing would obviously be a painful process so I see my aprehension as well founded.

M


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## Dreamer

Methusala said:


> Im also a little aprehensive to read the book. I finaly got it last night after many delays in releasing it by the publisher, why did they do that? I'm aprehensive because when I'v read professional psych books in the past, a lot of pretty unpleasent stuff came up. I think I will read this one gradually. Dr Ross says that 'mourning the loss of the parents one never had' is a fundamental way of healing dissociation. That type of thing would obviously be a painful process so I see my aprehension as well founded.
> 
> M


I have been skimming through the book. Having come from trauma, the kind Simeon mentions, seems to be a big factor for me. I'm having trouble with the book in that sense as I feel "I haven't tried enough" all these years to get better.

But that is my "beating myself YET". I have done a lot of research of my own. I felt certain areas were lacking (not detailed enough, but that is because I have gone into detail that I'm used to reading after many years) -- but I have covered a good bit of this ground in my own reading, especially Narcissistic Personality Disorder (more experienced by men) and Borderline (by women).

There is a lot of info, but I can't "look at it all" directly.

I've essentially read the book, but I need to READ the book withoug terror, lol.

The illness is still a mystery, but as I always say, this book is SO IMPORTANT. This information must get out there. And loan this book to your shrinks or have them buy it. It is PROOF that this exists.

I do see it as a coping mechanism gone awry, and I think Dr. Simeon has that POV.

I don't know. I have to really read it again. I rushed through it.

Sigh.
D


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## Dreamer

Update:
Reading the book with both eyes open!

I have started over now, and am "facing" each page of this book. I am on page 50 now.

I HIGHLY suggest people read this. Firstly, I have read "Case Histories" now that are at the beginning of the book. What is astounding, as I always figured, and as people have said here, that we are all UNIQUE. Each way to DP is UNIQUE, but the end result per Dr. Simeon (as I understand it) is no matter how we get to DP, we end up in basically the same place and there is no reason to assume that we need radically different treatments.

What is important, and painful to me, is the idea, and I already knew this, that early intervention -- and that includes being TOLD you have DP and are not ALONE with it and that you aren't crazy -- is VERY important. It can make a huge difference re: coping.

For me, having this as a child, having a mother as a psychiatrist who was verbally abusive and neglectful, I fit into one case study very easily. So do a number of others here. In my case, having the illness ignored when my mother knew what it was, making fun of me for it, and attacking me, really CONDITIONED me ... and perhaps caused it to be more chronic.

It is different for every person, drug onset or not, and yet we are all talking about the same phenomenon.

It also seems:

1. We obviously have a predisposition, a certain personality in general, that makes us susceptible to dissociating this way.
2. And this occurs when we are under stress. Mainly an accumulation of stress over time.

It was noted somewhere in the book that PTSD is indeed different and that DP doesn't occur as often as a part of PTSD -- there are different symptoms there.

But this is a WORLDWIDE problem. We are FAR from alone.

If I have said anything incorrectly please correct me.

I hope others start reading the book and that we can discuss it. I also wonder if we could sticky this at the top of the forum and change the title to "Discussing Dr. Simeon's New DP Book" or something.

Back to reading. It is "easy reading" -- not a lot of psychobabble. It is a book that is there to EDUCATE doctors and patients about what DP is and isn't. And there is a sort of cumulative history of the disorder going back the late 1800s when it was named, to literature that metions it. "The Stranger" by Camus, etc. Authors who probably suffered from this and describe it in their characters, etc.

More later.
The book is making me sad, making me cry. But there is nothing wrong with that.
All you young folks, please, be happy this book is out. I so wish this had been available when I was young. I would have had a weapon against my mother's viciousness and the ignorance of so many people.

Best,
D


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## Kelson12

I've skimmed through it so far as well. Some parts I read in detail more than others. I really can't relate to any of the case studies. I've never been able to relate to anyone else when it came to DP. I've never come across someone that is similar to my situation. I grew up in extreme normalacy, except for the fact that I never had any real interests, never found myself, never created my own views, and was very clingy to my parents as a child. I am now 26 years old and stuck in a world I know nothing about and feel no purpose. I am dead internally except for a huuuuge amount of fear and panic. I am now to the point where I need to start establishing my own views on things in life, but don't know how and don't know where to start. Especially because I am so depressed and DPed that I can't think straight. I feel like my future is a black empty hole. I am scared to death of it.

But I have glanced over the book and some of the things apply, I just can't relate to the trauma part of DP or the drugs part of DP. So it's even harder for me to deal with since I have no event or situation to go back and pinpoint.

Kelson


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## Dreamer

kelson12 said:


> I've skimmed through it so far as well. Some parts I read in detail more than others. I really can't relate to any of the case studies. I've never been able to relate to anyone else when it came to DP. I've never come across someone that is similar to my situation. I grew up in extreme normalacy, except for the fact that I never had any real interests, never found myself, never created my own views, and was very clingy to my parents as a child. I am now 26 years old and stuck in a world I know nothing about and feel no purpose. I am dead internally except for a huuuuge amount of fear and panic. I am now to the point where I need to start establishing my own views on things in life, but don't know how and don't know where to start. Especially because I am so depressed and DPed that I can't think straight. I feel like my future is a black empty hole. I am scared to death of it.
> 
> But I have glanced over the book and some of the things apply, I just can't relate to the trauma part of DP or the drugs part of DP. So it's even harder for me to deal with since I have no event or situation to go back and pinpoint.
> 
> Kelson


Dear Kelson,
I have troulbe identifying 100% with any one case story, and in some aspects I disagree with what Dr. Simeon is saying. But you mention:



> I've never come across someone that is similar to my situation. I grew up in extreme normalacy, except for the fact that I never had any real interests, never found myself, never created my own views, and was very clingy to my parents as a child. I am now 26 years old and stuck in a world I know nothing about and feel no purpose.


Though on the surface this may not seem to fit it does. This isn't so much a "cause" but a predisposition. There is a case study of a person who had a completely normal childhood, healthy family etc. in there. Your PERSONALITY which indicates something of a "loss of direction" from early on, a sort of anxiety about the world, could be fodder for a tendency to dissociate under the stress of growing up.

This is VERY oversimplified. * And no skimming. 8) I recommend really reading every sentence in detail. I had trouble at the beginning. This second time around, I see predisposition and conditioning as important.*

However, I have always been VERY emotional. That doesn't seem to fit with what is being described. But I may fit, as you may, into the Depression AND DPD category. I'm certain I belong in both.

But I do have problems with certain comments or observations in the book. I'm making note of them, for further discussion.

The problem is ... as always .... Dr. Simeon does not have DP, and so she identifies with it certainly as best she can. Jeff Abugel had his own UNIQUE experience. The individuals Dr. Simeon interviewed, the individuals quoted from the internet were all unique. I've said this a million times.

I think though, as is mentioned in the book, we all have a common experience that no one else understands. But it is an experience unique to all of us, every single individual.

Hope this makes sense.
Don't think it does, lol. :shock: 
D
I can only say, read the story of the merchant marine guy. It's a long one, but read the whole thing. It is very hard for me to concentrate on these stories as they cut close to the bone.

But remember you won't find YOU there, I haven't found myself described perfectly either, but man, if this book had been published 47 years ago.... sigh.....


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## jft

Kelson. I do not want to take this off topic but I found your post interesting as your experinece of growing up was just like mine, just as you said it. I was thrown about and never really knew who I was or what my interests were. I was bored as a kid and quite fearful as well. I was forever taught that other people are all that matter and I think this had something to do with it. Anyway, I just wanted to relate to your post. I too see this as predisposition as Dreamer said
jft


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## Kelson12

jft said:


> Kelson. I do not want to take this off topic but I found your post interesting as your experinece of growing up was just like mine, just as you said it. I was thrown about and never really knew who I was or what my interests were. I was bored as a kid and quite fearful as well. I was forever taught that other people are all that matter and I think this had something to do with it. Anyway, I just wanted to relate to your post. I too see this as predisposition as Dreamer said
> jft


Yea, I feel the same way. Right now I don't know what to do. The fear is so bad that I don't know how to deal. People keep telling me to just accept it, but I can't do that. I don't know how someone can accept something so terrifying. It's like saying, just accept that you are in hell. Seriously, that's exactly what it is like. Telling someone to accept that they are in hell. I don't understand how to do that. It seems impossible to me.

Kelson


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## Dreamer

kelson12 said:


> jft said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kelson. I do not want to take this off topic but I found your post interesting as your experinece of growing up was just like mine, just as you said it. I was thrown about and never really knew who I was or what my interests were. I was bored as a kid and quite fearful as well. I was forever taught that other people are all that matter and I think this had something to do with it. Anyway, I just wanted to relate to your post. I too see this as predisposition as Dreamer said
> jft
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, I feel the same way. Right now I don't know what to do. The fear is so bad that I don't know how to deal. People keep telling me to just accept it, but I can't do that. I don't know how someone can accept something so terrifying. It's like saying, just accept that you are in hell. Seriously, that's exactly what it is like. Telling someone to accept that they are in hell. I don't understand how to do that. It seems impossible to me.
> 
> Kelson
Click to expand...

Jft, if you feel the same way as Kelson, that makes perfect sense to me. There is SOMETHING about our personalities that leads us to react to life stressors in a maladaptive way. And then of course there are those who seem to get this out of nowhere.

What I find, is though this still indicates a strong NATURE component, so many factors in each life make up who we are. EAch and every story is different, but I'm glad jft that you can connect with Kelson. I connect with a few others here, more trauma vicitims.

At any rate, Kelson, no, I don't believe one can just "accept" this. What has been helpful for me is to say, "This is an illness, like my depression, not a weakness of character." You can't beat yourself up. And it is true for some here the severity is far less, and hence they can't fully understand your experience anymore than you can fully understand theirs.

I have said this so many times, but the way to dealing with this is unique to each person. Also, try not to look into the future. Live in the NOW, if at all possible. I'm coming to realize that. The fear that this will be with you the rest of your life ... well, it doesn't help. Try to find what tiny amount of pleasure IF ANY (and I know on many days there is NONE) on any day.

Dr. Simeon doesn't have an answer. But she has begun to educate people about this.

I can't tell you how sad I am about this. It makes me cry and cry. But we can't give up hope.

I love that Train song, "If you don't give up, I won't give up ... I'm calling all you angels."

Peace,
Dreamer


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## Guest

When I can get my hands on the book, I will definitely read it.
You know Im still so amazed that DP is so little known. From the moment I went into professional mental health care, every therapist or researcher I spoke with knows what DP/DR is. Even my GP knows what it is and often find myself amazed to find out in other countries there is so little knowledge about it. So the release of this book is quite the breakthrough!


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## Dreamer

Wendy said:


> When I can get my hands on the book, I will definitely read it.
> You know Im still so amazed that DP is so little known. From the moment I went into professional mental health care, every therapist or researcher I spoke with knows what DP/DR is. Even my GP knows what it is and often find myself amazed to find out in other countries there is so little knowledge about it. So the release of this book is quite the breakthrough!


I am also amazed by the lack of knowledge many have encountered. I have said before, I was first diagnosed very quickly in 1975 when I was 15. All of my main, really decent psychiatrisits, and a few other doctors (not shrinks) have known what DP is.

I've said this before. I may have been lucky in that I grew up in a large city, went to a large university well known for its medical school and nowadays for its neuropsychiatric department and research.

The people that have missed the boat I've also had the luxury to fire -- I have always had good health insurance and in the U.S. that makes a big diference. But I have run into M.D.s, M.D. psychiatrists, M.S.W.s, Ph.D.s in mental health who knew nothing of DP.

Also, it is important for a patinet not to be afraid to explain exactly how they feel. Write it down on a piece of paper, ALL your feelings (even if they sound "crazy" to you). There is a fear of being diagnosed as "crazy" ... and we are not crazy. I HATE that word.

We are not psychotic. Or the rather the majority here as I understand it, and having a disorder with psychotic episodes doesn't mean a person is "schizo" or a "lunatic" -- he or she is also a human being with a brain malfunction of some sort.

But this lack of knowledge by doctors is inexcusable ... any mental health professional should know what DP is. This book is critical. Come armed with it when shopping for a shrink!

Best,
D


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## Allure

I have in on my hands.

I cried when I glanced through it. It's reminds me so much things. It's horrible, those feelings. I all come back, all the memories since 3 years... I don't know if you're like me, it reminds me all the s?&&( I had since 3 years. Hopefully I do am better, but NOT cured.

I will tell to my psy that I have a copy. I hope he will buy some.

I will also talk about this book to my pdoc, because if I want to become pregnant, I want her to really know what I have. I think it's important.

Allure


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## jft

I got my copy today and skimmed it. It was so strange that halfway through I realized that after all these years and all this head banging into walls and all my efforts that led to nowhere and after all the fears I had in the early years with no information at all, that I for the first time had something in my hands that spoke exactly to my problem. Not just a couple pages in a Claire Weeks book. Not just a few pages in a heady medical journal. It was all here, finally, between two covers. I had to stop and just gather it in, this feeling of VALDATION!! Just to see it in print, written by a doctor, the same doctor that is involved with us here on this board (Nodid research) gave me all kinds of warm fuzzies. She even refers to us (websites and message boards).

Granted that there is no immediate cure all between those covers,, and granted the book ain't perfect ( I wish she would have addressed derealization more) but it is a wonderful start.. I am looking forward to sharing it with my family, the same family that has no clue what I have experienced all these years.
jft


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## David Kozin

Believe it or not, I actually do not have a copy at this time. Additionally, I am having a personal crisis with a loved one that is taking 100% of my time for the next day or so.

I would advise not to e-mail her personally with remarks and suggestions, as she receives MANY e-mails and may not be able to get to them. I am not speaking "officially" here for Dr. Simeon, but I am very aware of her e-mail load and I can only imagine how big it will be getting with the release of the book.

I would post comments here in this section, and then I can submit them to her in a bullet point format to point out good and bad. That would be the best way to send her your comments. Post them here, and then we submit them to her.

It is very important that a book like this comes out, and it is quite ground breaking. She is aware of this board, and realizes how much everyone on here helped with the recent study (still in progress, takes time to put the publication and results together) and is greatful.

She probably did not address Derealization as much as at this time it is not an official diagnostic entity, and is listed as a one line blurb in the DSM-IV, however she does co-chair the task force that is working on the DSM-V, so we may see changes... wouldn't that be great.

All my best wishes for all of you,

David


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## Dreamer

Dear David,
Thank you. Hope things settle down at home.

I'm trying to compile a list of comments for Dr. Simeon as well which I can give to you. I need to read the book a third time, after this second time. Some of my confusion might be explained, yet some of this still is not clear to anyone. Not Dr. Simeon's fault. This illness is still difficult to understand.

*Firstly thank you Dr. Simeon for this book. I will read it again after this second reading!*

*Questions/Thoughts For Dr. Simeon:*

OK, an observation re: myself which makes the concept of DPD as 
primary vs. DPD as secondary or comorbid a bit confusing to me. 
In a nutshell: I have chronic DP/DR, but I also have emotions, 
sometimes very powerful. Great sadness with crying, anger, 
sometimes can laugh hysterically, and these are REAL emotions. 
Despite being chronic, though distanced from my emotions, I do not 
feel "dead". Only in my worst episodes when the DP is unbearable 
do I feel completely "gone/dead" and then am without 
emotion/feeling/even less likely to be bothered by physical pain.

I would say I am DPD, alongside other problems then, however. I 
think I fit the model pretty well, but am still not quite clear on 
this.
------------------------------------------------------------------
*I do fit the trauma onset of DPD though very well overall:*

I had experiences of DP/DR as early as age 4, in a stressful 
situation, but I believe I was "playing with the DP/DR" at the 
time. Bringing it on myself with existential thoughts that didn't 
frighten me. But I would gather I was using this as a coping 
mechanism against endless chaos at home.

*I can't say for certain however that I wasn't already anxious as things were bad at home.*

My DP was the "insidious" kind (as Dr. Simeon describes it). I 
think it was always coming and going and increasing in frequency 
and intensity. Then in 8th grade I had "the big event" by my "Self 
leaving my body" on one particular evening I remember in complete 
detail. After that time the DP/DR became chronic and terrifying. Low level to serious episodes under all manner of stress or no stress.

At the same time I had high anxiety and episodes of depression. 
Bit the most frightening disabling symptom was DP/DR, but the anxiety 
ran a close second.

*1.	I have been diagnosed since age 15 as DPD. My primary Dx.

2.	When severely DP/DR, it's true, I have no emotions, I feel 
I am "only a thought.

3.	BUT, at my daily 24/7 30+ year DP/DR, I still experience 
great sadness, can laugh hysterically, can be anxious w/out a spike 
in the DP/DR, can be calm w a spike in the DP/DR, etc.

4. Also, I had dizziness before the big onset. I've heard this from others here. A feeling of being "off-balance" before the "BIG ONSET". This isn't mentioned, unless I missed it.*

I think I have many Borderline traits from abuse, along with a lot 
of other stuff. The DP/DR however is the most disabling symptom 
and always has been.

*But I am EMOTIONAL, at my low level "baseline" which never 
leaves. This confuses me.
I have strong emotions, great sadness with crying, suicidal thoughts 
related to depression (endogenous) AND another depression 
(reactive) to having DP/DR (two separate things). Not much joy. I 
feel distanced from my sexual feelings. HATE THAT. But loss of 
interest in sex/other pleasures is from depression as well.

I do feel detached from these emotions. I am not FULLY 
experiencing them. But I am not "dead", the living dead, as one 
might describe full blown 100% DPD.*

Curious about this.

*I'd gather my real Dx if there is one (I'm making this up) is 
borderline-type mood dysregulation w/chronic DPD due to chronic 
neglect and verbal and emotional abuse. I do have a chronic low level anxiety as well. GAD symptoms to this day.

Also, I have no problems remembering details of my past. No real 
time distortions either.

I also don't feel I have a "True Self" and a "False Self". 
Anything "False" is my "pretending to be well despite the 
symptoms.*

*I recommend EVERYONE HERE to read this book. You must. You will understand the disorder much better. You will feel less 
alone. And please contribute to the discussion. It is now very 
comforting to me... the book. Not feeling alone.*


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## terri*

"She probably did not address Derealization as much as at this time it is not an official diagnostic entity, and is listed as a one line blurb in the DSM-IV, "

Sad to be just a one line blurb at the moment. 

Just landed from another planet, so I have not been able to pick up the book yet. I am very interested in reading everyone's thoughts right now and appreciate the time you have taken to write about it. There is some trepidation on my part as the reading of it may make a now somewhat controlled DR become too real.

Does that make sense? :?


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## Dreamer

terri* said:


> "She probably did not address Derealization as much as at this time it is not an official diagnostic entity, and is listed as a one line blurb in the DSM-IV, "
> ......
> 
> There is some trepidation on my part as the reading of it may make a now somewhat controlled DR become too real.
> 
> Does that make sense? :?


Makes absolute sense. But so far I'm doing alright, though I have feared this. Read the case histories. I'd say the DR business though, DR alone may indeed be a different kettle of fish. I don't know. I started by skimming this, but am now reading it carefully. Oddly enough, it gives me some comfort and understanding. But each person is different. Skim first. If you can't handle it, put it down and read one page at a time. Or leave it alone. 8)

It is a valuable book for us though, very.

Bestest,
D


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## Dreamer

Well, to discuss this further with myself... :shock: lol, at the end of the book, the Mt. Sinai plan for dealing w/DP sounds very much like CBT/DBT even. *I'm very surprised that the work of Marsha Linehan that started in the 1990s wasn't mentioned. Her work with using this w/Borderline PD and then with other mental illnesses is documented, studied, pretty well established as having SOME benefit to most people.. even healthy people.*

It is noted in the book that CBT has helped I think 30% of DPers. But I think this is early intervention.

The staff who conducted these sessions I participated inwere all trained in DBT, but also had to go through the sessions themselves. Apply the exercises. It has been used to help with office atmosphere at the hospital, etc.

If anyone is interested, particularly has an abusive background ...

Dialectical Behavioral Theory http://www.priory.com/dbt.htm

Based on clear and simple logic, and reinforced w/simple Buddhist principles.... not voodoo, of living in the moment, living in the NOW. But it is the same basic formula noted at the end of the book. DIfferent lingo perhaps. I MUST reread again and compare, but this is my POV right now.

I also found it somewhat disturbing and confusing that Buddhist thought was not conveyed clearly, and that somehow the silver lining to dissociation is this "No Self" in enlightenment. DP "No Self" is NOT Buddhist "No Self."

I'm very surprised by this.
And unlike many other "options" that are discussed re: treatment, DBT has been part of controlled studies. Initially on Borderline patients (who can have DP -- Dr. Simeon does note that of the personality disorders, DP is indeed associated with BPD with two others I just forgot!).

"The technique has been devised by Marsha Linehan at the University of Washington in Seattle and its effectiveness has been 
demonstrated in a controlled study, the results of which will be 
summarised later in this paper."

Well, re: DBT I can only speak for myself. But it has helped me immensely. I have conditioned responses, some truly off the wall, from my childhood. Once I understood what was inappropriate in terms of my reactions to certain things (that I wasn't the "crazy one" in the family) it has taken me YEARS to work on de-conditioning myself, de-sensitizing myself.

Far from cured.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
But for instance. I had a really nice time with a huge group of cousins... all day -- Easter... some drive from my apartment. From 1:30pm through 9:30pm. Older folks down to little ones.

What was different? Just being myself. Not having to keep secrets about my family (my mother wasn't there to ruin another holiday). To not worry about impressing anyone, or having to lie about things (my mother was big on secrets). I am becoming less worried about who I am -- I don't have to be wonderful, beautiful, famous, the life of the party to be worth something.

The result, for me. Low or NO anxiety? I suppose there was a tad, but it didn't hinder anything I did. DP/DR ... the usual chronic level, but a level that seems to be getting better.

Strange as it seems, many people have noticed that I have improved bit by bit, depression wise at minimum since the most destructive person in my life, my mother, died in 2001.

I'm still finding this DP/DR fuelled by anxiety. For me anticipatory anxiety re: being the impossibly "perfect" person my mother wanted me to be, but a completely unrealistic request. Further anxiety at having to fake actual events/stories, and huge anxiety at the DP getting worse. That damned cycle of anxiety, more DP, terror of further increase in DP, more anxiety.

I am more likely since DBT to stop myself. Stop the conditioned response. Talking to myself 1,000 times a day (and we learned this is necessary). I'm OK. I have issues, but I'm getting better. I have limitations, but this is my life. Take the best and leave the rest.

Well, further thoughts. Wish more folks would respond.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
*EDIT: Mistakes made in interpreting literature, which I find troubling unless I am again full of it. Professionals will recognize these errors and it could turn them off.*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I hate to say this, but I believe the term *"A Glass, Darkly"* -- which may be a play on words ... one section was misused. Someone tell me if I'm mistaken. In the Bible, "a glass darkly" is merely a description of a mirror. There were no mirrors, people looked into burnished metal, etc. The "darkly, or darkess" was the result of looking into a burnished piece of metal.

*EDIT: OK, I found a somewhat conflicting view of that. I'm going to write a review of this for NAMI, lol. So I'm not insane.*

"To see ?through a glass??a mirror??darkly? is to have an obscure or imperfect vision of reality. The expression comes from the writings of the Apostle Paul; he explains that we do not now see clearly, but at the end of time, we will do so."

Still researching. The history of mirrors? :? Made them in Roman Times, but people looked at themselves since Ancient Times in polished rocks/metal.

(King James Version)"Now we see through a 
glass, darkly; but then face to face." I Cor. 13:12
One interpretation I found is:
"We will "understand it better, by and by." 
*We don't know why things happen, but when we get to heaven, we 
will.*
Another version of that section of the Bible: "When I was a 
child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an 
end to childish ways. *For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then 
we will see face to face. Now I know only in part, then I will know 
fully, even as I have been fully known."* 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I have to reread *"Alice in Wonderland Syndrome"* as that IS an actual syndrome separate from DP, a very distinct syndrome, and that term may have been misused.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hamlet's comment *"To be, or not to be." This to my understanding has NOTHING to do with being and nothingness, or chosing to dissociate. He is saying, "Should I commit suicide?"* Should I continue existing, or should I die, but "perchance to dream" which is his fear if he kills himself, or should he face "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune..." etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, there is great focus on *Oscar Janiger* who was famous, like Timothy Leary re: experiments with LSD -- the altered perhaps "true reality" of this altered state. More creative art in this state. Yes there is a change in perception on LSD, but I don't think we can count on it as "enlightenment." Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I found this section troubling as well, and it didn't have a lot to do w/DP. I realize Abugel was very close to Janiger. I'll have to read more about the man.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*I LIKED THIS VERY MUCH:
The long bit on an obscure university professor, Henri Frederic Amiel (1821-1881).
He kept a long journal, "The Journal Intime" "It is instead the meticulous record of a man whose life never really got off the ground because he was never really grounded in his life. He was, using his terminology, from the age of 16, depersonalized." This is a fascinating detailed example many here I think could identify with. It starts on page 128 in Dr. Simeon's book. It's worth reading as another Case Study.

Perhaps he should have been placed in the Case Study section, as the experience of a person long deceased. This man CLEARLY had DP, and he actually named it himself, even before Dugas at the end of the 1800s.*

Sorry, I'm a vicious critic. I AM rereading things to double check to write a review of the book for NAMI.

The book offers a good bit of information, but I wish it had been more focused in areas. Sometimes one person is discussed too much (in the literary section) and many others are mentioned in a few sentences.

*I AM NOT SAYING YOU SHOULDN"T READ IT. IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT BOOK FOR US. I'd love other reactions. I'm just wondering if a number of psychiatrists I have on my list to read this will read all of it when they come to errors like this.*

D


----------



## Dreamer

Oh Hell, I forgot something again and if I don't write it down I'll forget.

There is an assumption, in the book I think, or somewhere that all those w/DP are brighter than the average person. I don't believe that for a moment. And to the best of my understanding there has never been a study to prove this. It is strange to imply this when there is no proof.

Those of us on the internet are more likely to be educated/perhaps have more money... I discussed the problem w/minorities not having access to computers... an article I posted. Also minorities are more ashamed of seeking mental health assistance, so we have a skew there.

Those who are interviewed have responded to requests to be interviewed or have already sought out help and found how to get it. Not everyone is capable of doing that.

And I do know people in my life, not my internet life, but in my real life who have DP who aren't really terribly introspective. They may have brains, but they aren't especially brilliant, etc.

Are we literally saying that those of lesser intelligence don't get DP, when we KNOW that mental illnesses of all kinds are equal opportunity scourges? It makes no sense, and is a dangerous generalization to make, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE NO STUDIES TO REFER TO THIS.

In the book, it is noted that a huge phone-call study was conducted... 1,000 people? in the South somewhere, and individuals were asked about DP symptoms. Many mentioned them, but of a 1,000 people ... how many are that "special" intellectually. And on the phone that couldn't be measured. These were random calls. THe study only proved that DP in one form or another was experienced by more people than expected.

I'm just surprised at assumptions. Unless I am again misreading "theory" vs. fact. One needs studies/controlled studies to determine if people w/DP are brighter than the average population.

It doesn't make sense to me.

But I may be full of it. So forgive me.

D :?


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## Captain_K

Well then....

I don't have as many words as Dreamer.

But the message for me, after reading the book, for whatever reason I have experienced the hell of this "no self", DP, and am very very lucky to have come out the other side. I don't know why. It's a mystery to me. It's like grace or something. I have never forgotten the DP for one day but I no longer experience it.

I am left with the impression that I have taken "my eyes off the microscope" and need to do something with this. Emotionally I have *experienced* this loss of self and maybe it led to a Zen Buddhist intellectual understanding of the illusion of the self. Though I don't read much literature of such. Or maybe the phenomina of existence, very up close to feel the breath in my face no longer with fear.

I guess what I am saying is that this understanding which I have carved out, gives some form to it all for me so that I can say my life was not a waste.

Hey..maybe I can use this in my drawing class!

Sincerely,
Captain K


----------



## Dreamer

Captain K said:


> Or maybe the phenomina of existence, very up close to feel the breath in my face no longer with fear.


Now there is a gem. I'm writing it down.

And good Lord, I've determined no one's life is a waste!

L,
D 8)


----------



## widescreened

hey guys,this is an excellent thread.

my personal understanding of dp/dr,primary or secondary(if there exsists a difference)is that it is diferent for everybody.
what makes it more or less easy to live with are the comorbid symptoms that run concurrent with different people

for example,if someone had this and had no value system(no meaning to life)they could be a lot more calm,yet more traumatised than the person with chronic dp/dr that has a strong system of values.
someone with alcohol problems that has to contend with dp/dr and a serious hangover also has a more daunting case of the condition.

it seems that like any other aspect of the human condition,or institution/paradigm,the fragmentation of the cases is inevitable.

this is both a good thing and a bad thing,good because it allows for experimentation with other treatments if one treatment fails and bad because one standard treatment wont work for everybody.


----------



## Dreamer

widescreened said:


> my personal understanding of dp/dr,primary or secondary(if there exsists a difference)is that it is diferent for everybody.
> what makes it more or less easy to live with are the comorbid symptoms that run concurrent with different people
> 
> ..........................
> 
> it seems that like any other aspect of the human condition,or institution/paradigm,the fragmentation of the cases is inevitable.
> 
> this is both a good thing and a bad thing,good because it allows for experimentation with other treatments if one treatment fails and bad because one standard treatment wont work for everybody.


Dear Widescreened,
Agreed.

Again, Sir William Osler: "Ask not what disease the patient has but what patient the disease has."

And agreed, DP be it primary or secondary, is no differnt in many ways from any other mental illness. For some, say OCD is severe, completely crippling and doesn't respond to any therapeutic approach, other respond amazingly to medication, other do very well w/CBT alone, etc.

There is no one answer. And this is incredibly frustrating. We have to find the answers that our tailored to our individual situations.

D


----------



## Universal

I'm looking forward to purchasing the book and bringing it to my shrink. It looks promising, and looks like it's the best DP book you can find on the market today.


----------



## none

//


----------



## Dreamer

Battle said:


> It's the only DP book on the market today


Thank you. :?

Adding to my blog here 8)

I realized something else is missing. There is no mention of the effects on women of exacerbation by hormones. PMS, menopause, post-partum depression, etc. exacerbates DP/DR. That has shown up on this board over and over again.

I believe there have been no studies re: this, but it is missing, for DP patients at least, for women, to feel less alone about this.

Again, if I've missed something, please correct me.

My concern with the book is it's not detailed enough for professionals, and too detailed in certain respects for DP sufferers. And unfortunately, I'm not convinced from the book that DPD is an illness in and of itself, save in more rare cases.

It must be recognized as completely debilitating and recognized as something that is REAL, that it isn't psychosis, that doctors should be informed. But I am concerned.

Also curious how this will be promoted. This is one reason to make NAMI aware of it. I am exhausted thinking about it, but it should be presented at the 2007 convention in San Diego, especially since it is indeed the only book of its kind.

D


----------



## bat

just ordered the book on amazon uk but expected delivery isn't until 3 july. i'll certainly post my impressions here after then.


----------



## freesong

I haven't bought the book yet so can't talk about it. I am concerned, though, that there is not much regarding DR because that is what I experience the most. Does she have directions for treatment or just still the unanswered question of what to do? I will purchase it when I am able and until then, I hope that many keep posting their views so that I can get more of an idea of what this woman has truly learned about this illness. Is it thought to be more psychologically induced or physiologically? That is the confusing part for me.


----------



## walkingdead

Freeson, even though this book might be of help to the layman interested in understanding this hell, you probably already have read about most of what is in it. It mentions no magic bullet to get rid of this crap. The one thing I learned from it is it did list as a symtpom losing the sense of hunger and thirst, which is part of my condition, but it really doesn't show any proven successful treatment. Do not worry if you cannot get it soon, you can basically get the same info on here. I read the entire book and relly did not learn that much more than I learned researching on the internet, and much of what if in it is from articles I already read on the internet and from info I received on this forum. To me it really was kind of a let down. But I did come to the conclusion after reading it that I do have DP, even though mine is aan even rarer and worse cas with the loss of almost all bodily sensations that relate to pleasure, but I still believe Mine is DP just the same and my braind atrophy and lesions really have little to do with my symptoms, even though they may have contributed to the anxiety that brought this hell on. Wish I could say it had cures, but it was vague and imprecise on that point.


----------



## moon

> t is the ONLY book of its kind.


I am a bit surprised I must say - cause it?s not.

There is a German book out for over 3 years now about DP as a disorder.

http://www.berit.lukas.de.vu

it might be the first english book about DP, but it?s not the first book book about DP.

There is a German forum about DP: http://www.dpforum.de.vu

for all of you who are able to read German.


----------



## Dreamer

moon said:


> t is the ONLY book of its kind.
> 
> 
> 
> I am a bit surprised I must say - cause it?s not.
> There is a German book out for over 3 years now about DP as a disorder.
> 
> http://www.berit.lukas.de.vu
> 
> it might be the first english book about DP, but it?s not the first book book about DP.
> 
> There is a German forum about DP: http://www.dpforum.de.vu
> for all of you who are able to read German.
Click to expand...

Wow, well as a US Citizen, highly ignorant any other language I wish this could be translated. The problem is considering that many psychiatrists don't even know a lot of DP, why would they set out to read a book in German. They also are unlikely to read all the articles out there, in many languages including Japanese.

I am disappointed in the Book overall -- perhaps because I have lived 47 years with this mess and have done a good bit of my own research:

A few points have already been mentioned:

I may be all wrong on some of this....

1. If the thesis is to prove that DPD is an entity in and of itself, there isn't real "proof" of this in studies, it seems to be conjecture. If that is the THESIS, the thesis hasn't been supported or proved as would be required in a Ph.D. thesis.

2. It doesn't delineate all of the research... there should have been a bibliography at least of as many of the articles available on DP... many are listed on the IoP webiste, for professionals to review.

3. I feel the stamp of Mr. Abugel, not of Dr. Simeon. I appreciate the literary section, sort of, but it seems that should be a different book. Also, for instance Sylvia Plath's "Bell Jar" isn't mentioned... one could state, "It is interesting that Plath describes a "Bell Jar", blocking her from the world, yada, yada. Perhaps Miss Plath suffered from DP as well." That type of conjecture is better than saying Van Gogh suffered from DP when it was most likely he was bi-polar. There is ample argument over that, and in his letters to his brother he never mentions DP/DR. (That's from an artist friend, and from a documentary)

- I would have said: Here are case studies, old and new. (Amiel of whatever his name)
- Here are clear examples from literature.
- I feel the "enlightened POV" was overstated. Experiments w/LSD from waaay back were gone into I think in too much depth.
- DR was indeed ignored unless this was implied, but I have both DP/DR. I know others only have one or the other
- I have noted earlier in my comments that there is again no proof through studies that individuals with higher intelligence get this illness. I agree. I know a few people personally whom I wouldn't call particularly insightful (these are people over the years) who have DP/DR. Without a study to indicate this ... well this is pure speculation. Stories by those or interviews as someone said only reflect the people with help-seeking behavior, the money to get such depth therapy which would not work on those who are less intellectual, the internet does NOT reflect the population at large. Who said that? Forgot.

I guess I wanted much more. Yes this is a start, but also as someone already said there IS no specific treatment.

What I liked is that it was stated that though therapy cannnot be counted on an more than medication, it shouldn't be discounted.

*Someone correct me on any of this if I'm mistaken.*

D


----------



## Dreamer

walkingdead said:


> I read the entire book and relly did not learn that much more than I learned researching on the internet, and much of what if in it is from articles I already read on the internet and from info I received on this forum. To me it really was kind of a let down.
> .............
> Wish I could say it had cures, but it was vague and imprecise on that point.


Walking, I agree with this.

And I've said this too, I think:

"It has too much information (and not enough encouragement for individuals WITH DP) and not enough information for the people that are treating us."

I still await comments from my shrink, from my husband's shrink, from, his Clinical Psychologist -- the latter is very well versed in things such as DP, self-harm, OCD, body dysmorphia, etc., etc.


----------



## freesong

Walkingdead, thanks as that is what I thought but no fault of Dr. Simeon. At least she is getting the attention and educating the medical public. Nicht Verstain to the Deutch publication and I have no excuse because I lived in Berlin for a year. Oh, well. Does it lend any insight? Walkingdead, do you think you are getting into REM sleep? That is the connection I am making for me. Just a thought. freesong


----------



## Dreamer

freesong said:


> Walkingdead, thanks as that is what I thought but no fault of Dr. Simeon. At least she is getting the attention and educating the medical public. Nicht Verstain to the Deutch publication and I have no excuse because I lived in Berlin for a year. Oh, well. Does it lend any insight? Walkingdead, do you think you are getting into REM sleep? That is the connection I am making for me. Just a thought. freesong


Dear freesong,
I don't mean to attack Dr. Simeon. My concern is this books seems to be essentially written by Jeff Abugel. It is not as focused on the information I thought it would be. On all the research that has been done. Even mentioning the German book and research worldwide.

I found the chapter headings for the German book (I think, lol). Oddly enough my mother was German and spoke German fluently. I can gather an eensy bit of what is here. I could babblefish it as well. But off the top of my head, this is what I was expecting.

"Feeling Unreal" seems to be a variety of books in one, or rather two. One about the appearance of DP in literature/philosophy and Eastern religion or in meditation, etc. The other about case studies, and various theories and treatment theories. I would have like the focus to be on the latter.

Windmenschen 
Danke 
Vorwort 
1. Einleitung 
Begriff und historische Grundlagen 
2. Depersonalisation 
2.1 Pierre Janet und Depersonalisation 
2.1.1 Prim?r- und Sekund?rreaktionen 
Beschreibung der Symptome und ihre Auswirkungen 
3. Symptomatik 
3.1 Das Emotionserleben in der Depersonalisation 
3.1.1 Angst 
3.1.2 Scham 
3.1.3 Auswirkungen der gest?rten Emotionalit?t auf zwischenmenschliche Beziehungen 
Das kognitive Netzwerk. Auswirkungen der Depersonalisation auf Denken, Ged?chtnis und Sprache 
3.2 Gedankenleere, "mind emptiness" 
3.2.1 Denken 
3.3 Ged?chtnis 
3.4 Sprache 
3.4.1 Sprache und Trauma 
3.5 Narrativ 
Das K?rper- und Selbsterleben in der Depersonalisation 
3.6 K?rper 
3.6.1 Ber?hrung 
3.6.2 Haut 
3.6.3 Selbstverletzendes Verhalten 
3.6.4 Bewegung 
3.7 St?rungen des Ich-Bewu?tseins und Selbsterlebens 
4. Abgrenzung Symptom versus Syndrom 
4.1 Depression oder Depersonalisation? 
5. Ausl?sende Faktoren 
5.1 Stre? 
5.2 Trauma 
5.2.1 Vergewaltigung 
6. M?gliche Entstehungsbedingungen 
6.1 Kinder von Alkoholikern 
7. Erkl?rungsans?tze 
7.1 Neurobiologische Ans?tze 
7.2 Kognitionspsychologischer und neuropsychologischer Ansatz 
7.3 Psychodynamische und psychoanalytische Modelle 
7.4 Adoleszenz 
7.5 Fr?hst?rung oder strukturelle St?rungen? 
7.5.1 Borderline 
7.5.2 Schizoidie 
7.5.3 Intentionalit?t 
7.6 Zusammenfassung 
8. Dissoziation 
9. Die andere Grenze: ein transpersonaler Ansatz 
10. Therapie 
10.1 Ganzheitlicher Ansatz 
10.2 K?rpertherapie 
10.2.1 Scharfetters Modell 
10.3 Therapeutische Ans?tze bei Schizoidie und intentionalen St?rungen 
10.4 Hinweise zur Traumatherapie 
10.5 Behandlungsvorschl?ge f?r dissoziative Zust?nde 
10.6 Verhaltenstherapeutische Ans?tze 
10.7 Pharmakologische Unterst?tzung 
10.8 Station?re Therapie 
11. Schlu?bemerkung 
12. Anhang 
13. Weblinks 
14. Glossar 
15. Literaturverzeichnis 
Anmerkungen

*Moon or Flowingly, can you translate any of this. This is merely the list of contents of the book. And walkingdead, I do believe you have an extreme case of this. And I don't know what to tell you to help you feel better.*
Best,
D


----------



## jft

I think the down side of the book many speak of here had to occur, as this illnes has the same down side as the book. The book represents the nature of the problem. None of us are identical and this malady encompasses so many facets but at the same time shares many similiarities. It must have been hard to write and edit this book because at times the content must have seemed off target and out of focus, but in reality dp/dr is a big piece of pie and all the slices have to be included. I mean, just read the topics on this board. Some of us are drug incduced, some are not. Some are pure dp, many are mostly dr. Many talk lots about existence and angst, some of us do not relate. Many speak of anxiety, for some not a problem. Treatments options are as varied as our experiences. Conjecture abounds about nature/nuture and psychological versus psysiological. On and on.

What I am saying is that it had to be hard to write a book with as varied and ill understood a subject as depersonalization. I for one skipped over all the eastern stuff as well as the literature and philosphy stuff. It was interesting but not relevant to me. But apparantly it is important to the total understanding of the illness as well as specifically relavant to some on this board. My sister is reading it to try to understand me, and i fear she will get lost in it because of the reasons listed. but at the same time she finally sees in print a semblence of the reality of my life for all these years, and for this reason I am very grateful for this book. I too agree that most of what i read I already knew. But we must remember that most do not know these things and this is good information for them, especially some of the ignorant medical professionals. I sent copies today to the two psychotherapists who banged their heads against the wall trying to help me. I think they will see what happened as to why we failed to reach our goals.

I just find it wonderful to have in print, even with its flaws, a discussion of my life for all these years. And I will look forward to the next book. I see this one as a college "survey" book, an introductory, an all inclusive effort that necesarily had to cover what it did because of its nature. The journal articles and studies done before and in the future break it down into more specific subjects.

God, I sound like Siskel and Ebert. I am the last one that can critic anything. I only am appreciative for this book, that is why I write.
jft


----------



## walkingdead

Freesong to answer your questions. no it really does not offer any more insight than what is discussed on this forum. I guess the nature of this illness causes us to research so much that there really isn't that much more to learn, at least after we find out we have DP and then do our own research.
And I do not know if I hit REM sleep, but I do know for sure that I dream. So I really guess I do. But as I have said before, I never feel sleepy or drowsy, I just make myself lay there until I am waking up again. Even on bathroom breaks I wake up so completely that I have to force myself to lay there again to go back to sleep. When this first started I would lay for 2-3 hours till 1 or 2 and then wake at 5 or 6 and not be able to sleep till the following nite but slowly I began to sleep more and more. That is one of the only changes in my condition. Thanks.


----------



## Dreamer

jft said:


> But we must remember that most do not know these things and this is good information for them, especially some of the ignorant medical professionals. I sent copies today to the two psychotherapists who banged their heads against the wall trying to help me. I think they will see what happened as to why we failed to reach our goals.
> 
> I just find it wonderful to have in print, even with its flaws, a discussion of my life for all these years. And I will look forward to the next book. I see this one as a college "survey" book, an introductory, an all inclusive effort that necesarily had to cover what it did because of its nature. The journal articles and studies done before and in the future break it down into more specific subjects.
> 
> God, I sound like Siskel and Ebert. I am the last one that can critic anything. I only am appreciative for this book, that is why I write.
> jft


I guess I sound like an evil Siskel (I miss him a lot) ... I am appreciative, but my concern is now, how is this marketed? How do professionals get ahold of this. I don't understand how these things are "sold" to professionals, promoted, advertised. I.E. I don't understand the publishing industry.

I also plan on giving books to a number of people. It's worth it for me. The problem is how many people can afford to buy books for all the doctors that "missed it." LOL.

I am really awaiting to hear from professionals who get ahold of this. It will take them time to read it after reading their other 23 journal articles.

Just curious about how this will be marketed.

And I agree that this illness is so many things, has so many incarnations in each of us, but in a sense there are many varieties of bipolar, of depression, of OCD -- hoarder/clutterer, contamination fear, religious scruples, checking.

These separate entities need to be addressed.

In looking at the Table of Contents -- the German book seems to have taken the more complex approach, and I'm surprised by that, and it was released in 2003.

Wish I could read German.

:? 
Oh forgive my carrying on please. This is something we again need to sit down and have coffee over and discuss!
Cheers,
D


----------



## Dreamer

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/AS...80009/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/302-3318539-6072048

*How much is 24 Euros?*
On the other hand, it could be in the uni library, but where?
Seriously.
I'm really curious about this.
But I have to learn German. :shock: It said on the site, read Frank Putnam who is a member of the ISSD. (I took a guess, lol)

*I'm nutty over this as I just want to understand what the hell is wrong with us. Forgive me.*


----------



## Dreamer

*This is the info on the German DP book moon mentioned that came out in 2003. I took the info off of amazon.de and babelfished it. This is NOT Dr. Simeon's book, but something like "The Feeling of NO-Body: Depersonalization, dissociation and trauma. An introduction for therapists and ?"

What is very exciting is there is a LOT of research going on around the world. More than we know about. Many minds working on a strange puzzle.*

Well, this is what you get when a computer translates, lol. I had to see what the book was about. It seems to be in many ways like Dr. Simeon's book, only more focused? I can only say the lack of focus is perhaps explained by two writers? OK, time for bed.

VERY bad translation of title........... etc.
*To be the feeling, a NO-Body. Depersonalisation, dissociation and 
trauma. An introduction for therapists and concerning*

"As is that, if humans cannot feel themselves suddenly any longer, 
their perception changes or it in the mirror no more not to 
recognize can? The available book tries, views of this experiencing 
world too give, which appears linguistically hardly understandable. 
Over as near as possible on the view of the concerning to remain, 
became beside theoretical Considerations and explanation beginnings 
many original quotations uses, those descriptive that describe, 
what experiences or no more deeply felt becomes.

Depersonalisationssymptome have effects on the entire And humans 
obstruct quality of life in their contact behavior and their 
ability to work. Become nevertheless Depersonalisationsphaenomene 
in the clinical everyday life survey frequent or correctly 
interpreted and did not understand, if concerning over it report.

Here the book knows new perspectives to a better Understanding 
open, there by a connection of historical Material, new research 
reports and the direct exchange also Concerned one different 
aspects to be integrated. Possible one therapeutic interventions 
are represented in detail and can reference points for the 
treatment give.

The extensive documentation is supplemented by those personal 
experiences of eight concerning, their own History, their 
experiencing and their handling with that 
Depersonalisationssymptomen tell. Over the author Berit Lukas, 
psychological-technical female assistant (HPG). Study the 
literature science, Romanistik and Amerikanistik. Longer one Write 
stays in the USA and Spain. Emphasis since 1998: Depersonalisation 
and dissociative disturbances."

Table of Contents

Wind human being <-------- :shock: lol
thanks
preface
1. introduction term and historical bases
2. Depersonalisation
2.1 Pierre Janet and Depersonalisation
2.1.1 primary and sekundaerreaktionen description of the symptoms 
and its effects
3. symptomatology
3,1 the emotion experiencing in the Depersonalisation
3.1.1 fear
3.1.2 shame
3.1.3 effects of the disturbed Emotionalitaet up interhuman 
relations the cognitive network. Effects of the Depersonalisation 
up , do memory and language
3,2 thought emptiness think, "mind emptiness"
3.2.1 thinking
3.3 memory
3.4 language
3.4.1 language and trauma
3.5 Narrativ the body and self experiencing into the 
Depersonalisation 3.6 bodies
3.6.1 contact
3.6.2 skin
3.6.3 selfhurting behavior 3.6.4 movement
3.7 disturbances of I consciousness and self experiencing
4. demarcation symptom versus syndrome
4.1 depressionor Depersonalisation?
5. Releasing factors
5.1 stress
5.2 trauma
5.2.1 rape
6 possible developing conditions of
6.1 children ofalcoholics of
7 explanation beginnings of
7.1 neurobiological beginnings
7.2 cognition-psychological and neuropsychological beginning
7.3 Psychodynami and psychoanalytische models
7.4 Adoleszenz
7.5 early disturbance or structural disturbances?
7.5.1 borderLINE
7.5.2Schizoidie
7.5.3 Intentionalitaet
7.6 summary
8. dissociation
9.the other border: a transpersonaler beginning
10. Therapy
10.1 Holistic beginning
10.2 body therapy
10.2.1 Scharfetters model of 10, therapeutic beginnings with 
Schizoidie and intentionalen Disturbances of
10.4 references to the trauma therapy of
10.5 treatment suggestions for dissociative conditions of
10.6 behavior-therapeutic beginnings
107 Pharmakologi support
10.8 stationary therapy
11. Concluding remark
12. Appendix
13. Web on the left of
14. Glossary
15. Bibliography notes


----------



## Universal

"3,2 thought emptiness think, "mind emptiness" "

its great that the book mentions this as that is what i have, the mind emptiness thingy :shock:


----------



## freesong

Auctung!!!! Bitte shun, a translator!!!! Danke!! Now I shall ausfart! :shock:


----------



## Guest

Ich spreche Deutsch, aber heute habe ich nicht ein guter Tag und habe ein bischen konzentrations Probleme. Ich werde es spater mal probieren Dreamer zu helfen mit ihrer 'struggle' :lol:

Moon, thanks for the link to the German site. It is the first time I ever saw a special section on Complex PTSD and DP. 8) I registered and hope it will be useful (im from Holland btw and learned to speak German when I was still very young).


----------



## Dreamer

> Auctung!!!! Bitte shun, a translator!!!! Danke!! Now I shall ausfart!


When I was in Germany as a girl and we drove on the autobahn, I thought it was hysterical that entrances and exits were called ein*fart* and aus[/b]fart. This did not please my mother who worshipped her German heritage, the language, and her psychoanalytic background -- I do have great respect for her reading all of Freud in German. I'd like to have knocked her in the head every day, but I can't sniff at that.

Wendy, bless you for speaking German. It doesn't seem like a terribly difficult language, but as a stupid American I feel awful I don't speak any other language save English fluently.

When you have a chance, it would be great for any of you to give a summary of the book.

Babelfish is absolutely ridiculous.

What is the Title of the book, in English. The translation makes no sense really:

*Das Gef?hl, ein No-Body zu sein. Depersonalisation, Dissoziation und Trauma. Eine Einf?hrung f?r Therapeuten und Betroffene
von Berit Lukas

What is Betroffene?*

*I have emailed the ISSD and the NAMI bookstore to consider adding Dr. Simeon's book to their collections. Don't know why it isn't listed at the ISSD.*

Trying to write a review for my local NAMI which might then be considered by the National NAMI. There rather picky with reviews. But I am a consumer member.


----------



## Guest

> What is the Title of the book, in English. The translation makes no sense really:
> 
> Das Gef?hl, ein No-Body zu sein. Depersonalisation, Dissoziation und Trauma. Eine Einf?hrung f?r Therapeuten und Betroffene
> von Berit Lukas
> 
> What is Betroffene?


Dreamer, I will give it a try:

*The feeling of being a No-Body. Depersonalization, Dissociation and Trauma. An introduction for therapists and those affected*

So, Betroffene means the persons affected.


----------



## Guest

Wind human being <-------- lol >>>_didnt know what that meant either..lol_
thanks 
preface 
1. introduction term and historical bases>>_concept and historical basis_
2. Depersonalisation 
2.1 Pierre Janet and Depersonalisation 
2.1.1 primary and sekundaerreaktionen description of the symptoms 
and its effects>>_Primary and Secondary Reactions_
3. symptomatology 
3,1 the emotion experiencing in the Depersonalisation>>_ the emotional life (or inner life) in Depersonalization_
3.1.1 fear 
3.1.2 shame 
3.1.3 effects of the disturbed Emotionalitaet up interhuman 
relations the cognitive network. Effects of the Depersonalisation 
up , do memory and language>>_The effects of disturbed emotionality on interpersonal relationships. The Cognitive Network. Effects of DP on thinking, memory and language_
3,2 thought emptiness think, "mind emptiness" 
3.2.1 thinking 
3.3 memory 
3.4 language 
3.4.1 language and trauma 
3.5 Narrativ the body and self experiencing into the 
Depersonalisation>_Narrative. The experience of Body and Self in DP_
3.6 bodies>_Body_
3.6.1 contact>_Touch_ 
3.6.2 skin 
3.6.3 selfhurting behavior 3.6.4 movement 
3.7 disturbances of I consciousness and self experiencing>>_Disturbances of Ego Awareness and experience of the Self_
4. demarcation symptom versus syndrome 
4.1 depressionor Depersonalisation? 
5. Releasing factors>>_Random (?) Factors_
5.1 stress 
5.2 trauma 
5.2.1 rape
6 possible developing conditions of >>_possible origins of the condition(?)_
6.1 children of alcoholics 
7 explanation beginnings of>>_ Explanation of Approaches_
7.1 neurobiological beginnings 
7.2 cognition-psychological and neuropsychological beginning 
7.3 Psychodynami and psychoanalytische models 
7.4 Adoleszenz>>_Adolescense_
7.5 early disturbance or structural disturbances? 
7.5.1 borderLINE 
7.5.2Schizoidie 
7.5.3 Intentionalitaet >>_Purposiveness_?..lol
7.6 summary 
8. dissociation 
9.the other border: a transpersonaler beginning (>>_A Transpersonal Approach_
10. Therapy 
10.1 Holistic beginning 
10.2 body therapy 
10.2.1 Scharfetters model of 10, therapeutic beginnings with 
Schizoidie and intentionalen Disturbances of >_(intentionalen? i didnt get that one)_
10.4 references to the trauma therapy of>_Tips/Clues for Traumatherapy_
10.5 treatment suggestions for dissociative conditions of._Dissociative States_ 
10.6 behavior-therapeutic beginnings 
107 Pharmakologi support >_Pharmacological_
10.8 stationary therapy._In Patient Therapy_
11. Concluding remark 
12. Appendix 
13. Web on the left of ..LOL, just _Weblinks_
14. Glossary 
15. Bibliography notes>_Bibliography_
16 Abmerkungen>_Annotations_

Tomorrow I will try to help you with the translation of the Summary of the book, but i think you did well with the translation. 8)


----------



## livinginhell333

the case i relate to the most in the book is trishas almost exactly like mine and she's like the same age too.


----------



## Dreamer

Wendy said:


> Wind human being <-------- lol >>>didnt know what that meant either..lol


Bless you. Well, a computer is a tad abstract. It's a hoot. I recommend anyone to visit babelfish and try to translate something. It's hysterical.



livinginhell333 said:


> the case i relate to the most in the book is trishas almost exactly like mine and she's like the same age too.


Livinginhell, I agree. I believe you are one more perfect example of PURE DPD. I'm still not clearly convinced that in all of us it is a disorder unto itself. I'm just not sure. But with you.... from the book, page 36:

*"Does Trisha have depersonalization disorder?*

_" ..... Yes .... she has suffered from unremitting depersonalization symtpoms for about a month, without other emotional compalints, except for some secondary intense worrying about her condition that clearly follwed its onset. Still she is not clinically depressed, having panic attacks, or worrying extensively about anything other than her condition."_

Now to ME (what the Hell do I know?) this is the Primary Depersonalization Disorder that Dr. Sierra at the IoP seems to have described? Spot on? Nothing else but the bare bone horrifying disconnectedness? Exactly per the DSM-IV.

Again, Living, wish there were a magic wand around.... hang in there.

*Also, I'm reading the thing again (3rd time, writing specific statements down). There is great value in the book. For me, having it so long, I view it too critically. I think for anyone who has not been diagnosed, or is suffering from this .. has been for a short time, the case studies in particular are extremely valuable. As jft said, the book isn't perfect, but it is a beginning. And a sad thing that the beginning is in 2006! So many people have had this for so long!*

And the book isn't in German. 8) 
Take Care,
D


----------



## Dreamer

My psychiatrist has the book in his hands and is going to give me a general sense of the book. He thinks it's a great idea, a way to get the word out.

Now see, we also discussed my "black and white" thinking. I want the book to be "perfect." Things are either "perfect" or nothing. How I was brought up.

I'm a heavy duty critic, but I'm very glad the book is out. Important. Very.

Curious of his response as a professional.

Glad the forum is back!
D


----------



## nobody

Hi!
I`m from Austria and i have read the book "Das Gef?hl ein Nobody zu sein" by Berit Lukas.
For everyone who speaks German i can recomment the DP/DR forum

http://5084.rapidforum.com/

It`s something like the german version of this forum... however you have to first post something to be registered..

Berit actually posts there sometimes.

Andy


----------



## Guest

If you want, I can translate it for you in case wendy is a lil unsure about some phrases.
Just copy and paste the german text and book contents as the translation by the computer program is incomprehensible.


----------



## Dreamer

guest said:


> If you want, I can translate it for you in case wendy is a lil unsure about some phrases.
> Just copy and paste the german text and book contents as the translation by the computer program is incomprehensible.


LOL, a lil unsure? Who are you? I hate not being able to sprechen many schrachens?

Tell me one thing ... what is "Windmenschen" ... Wendy must speak for herself, I have faith in her, but she may need help. 8) "Wind human being" LOL.

Menshen - sounds like in Jewish "good folks"

If you go to the amazon site (I'm too lazy to find it in the thread, it has the full book description in German). I believe anyone here who contributes to this translation is indeed a mensch sp!

Danke
D 8)


----------



## Guest

Hahaha.

'Windmenschen' is a word that doesnt exist in german, it is a new creation using the words 'wind' (which means 'wind' in english), and 'menschen' (and that means 'human beings'). So translated it means something like 'humans of (the) wind' or 'wind people' or something as stupid as the german equivalence. Dont ask me why the author created a new word there, new creations are usually used by poets to describe things in a metaphorical way. Maybe the author thinks she is a poet or something along those lines.


----------



## Dreamer

guest said:


> Hahaha.
> 
> 'Windmenschen' is a word that doesnt exist in german, it is a new creation using the words 'wind' (which means 'wind' in english), and 'menschen' (and that means 'human beings'). So translated it means something like 'humans of (the) wind' or 'wind people' or something as stupid as the german equivalence. Dont ask me why the author created a new word there, new creations are usually used by poets to describe things in a metaphorical way. Maybe the author thinks she is a poet or something along those lines.


People, menschen! Yes. And I meant Yiddish, not Jewish, oh my brain! And this may be that this could be the heading a poem that is there, or a quotation?

In a way that works... "People of the wind" -- we are like ghosts, people made of air ... and as I recall from a favorite poem which has a different meaning "A cloud in trousers".

Love that!
Again Dankeshoen? sp?


----------



## Dreamer

OK, here's from amazon.de about the book. Have at it 8)

*Das Gef?hl, ein No-Body zu sein
Depersonalisation, Dissoziation und Trauma

Eine Einf?hrung f?r Therapeuten und Betroffene

von Berit Lukas*

Rezensionen
Kurzbeschreibung

Wie ist das, wenn Menschen sich pl?tzlich nicht mehr sp?ren k?nnen, ihre Wahrnehmung sich ver?ndert oder sie sich selber im Spiegel nicht mehr erkennen k?nnen? 
Das vorliegende Buch versucht, Einblicke in diese Erfahrenswelt zu geben, die sprachlich kaum fa?bar erscheint. Um m?glichst nah an der Sicht der Betroffenen zu bleiben, wurden neben theoretischen ?berlegungen und Erkl?rungsans?tzen viele Originalzitate verwendet, die anschaulich das beschreiben, was erlebt oder nicht mehr erlebt wird.

Depersonalisationssymptome haben Auswirkungen auf die gesamte Lebensqualit?t und behindern die Menschen in ihrem Kontaktverhalten und ihrer Arbeitsf?higkeit. Dennoch werden Depersonalisationsph?nomene im klinischen Alltag h?ufig ?bersehen oder nicht richtig gedeutet und verstanden, wenn Betroffene dar?ber berichten. Hier kann das Buch neue Perspektiven zu einem besseren Verst?ndnis er?ffnen, da durch eine Verbindung von historischem Material, neuen Forschungsberichten und dem direkten Austausch mit Betroffenen verschiedene Sichtweisen integriert werden. M?gliche therapeutische Interventionen werden ausf?hrlich dargestellt und k?nnen Anhaltspunkte f?r die Behandlung geben.

Erg?nzt wird das umfangreiche Informationsmaterial durch die pers?nlichen Erfahrungen von acht Betroffenen, die ihre eigene Geschichte, ihr Erleben und ihren Umgang mit den Depersonalisationssymptomen erz?hlen.

?ber den Autor
Berit Lukas, Psychologisch-technische Assistentin (HPG). Studium der Literaturwissenschaft, Romanistik und Amerikanistik. L?ngere Schreibaufenthalte in den USA und Spanien. Schwerpunkt seit 1998: Depersonalisation und dissoziative St?rungen.


----------



## Guest

Ha, youre funny!
What I meant about the new word creation is that usually only poets use or create new metaphorical nouns because in poems they talk extremely figuratively anyway.
I guess the author wanted to coin some collective term for people suffering with dp. I guess its somewhat like 'indigo children', thats also a new term, and so is 'wind people'. Who cares anyway.

Ok lets have some more fun translating this sh..... :lol: :

(the existing translation of the title is correct)

How is it like when people suddenly cant feel themselves anymore, when their perception changes, or when they cant recognize themselves in the mirror any longer?
The book at hand tries to give insights into this way of perception that seems to be hardly feasible using words. In order to come as close as possible to the view of the ones affected, the book uses a lot of original quotes in addition to theoretical contemplations and approches to explain it, which vividly describe what is being perceived or not perceived anymore for that matter.

Symptoms of depersonalisation affect the whole quality of life and handicap people with respect to their social interactions and ability to work. Nevertheless, the phenomenon of depersonalisation is frequently overlooked or not properly understood when sufferers talk about it in clinical practice. This book can open up new perspectives for a better understanding because it integrates various views as it compiles historical data, new research documents and direct exchange of information with sufferers. Possible therapeutic interventions are elaborated in detail and can give hints regarding the treatment.

The comprehensive information is completed by personal experiences of eight sufferers who report their own story, their experience, and their coping with the symptoms of depersonalisation.

About the author
Berit Lukas, psychologic-technical assistant (HPG), study of literature, romance and american studies. Extended stays in the US and Spain. Focus as of 1998: depersonalisation and dissociative disorders.


----------



## moon

oops, I didnt know that this discussion was going on

I am able to read German but unfortunately I am not able to translate it :roll:

Windmenschen is a new word creation thats true and I think dreamer did very well with the


> people made of air


 or feeling like a ghost or something.

It is not really a chapter of the book more a short discussion between two people talking about DP/DR.

I don`t have the Simeon book yet - but I am curious - does she mention the German research at all?


----------



## Guest

wow i posted that twice..error


----------



## johncav

Just wondering if anyone out there got disability from dp/dr?


----------



## livinginhell333

i relate to almost everything in the book that it is unbelievable, almost like that book was written for me and about me.


----------



## Dreamer

livinginhell333 said:


> i relate to almost everything in the book that it is unbelievable, almost like that book was written for me and about me.


So glad to hear that. I want to take some of the comments re: the book to the NAMI presentation. Granted it is next summer, but I need to prep slowly so as not to hit a last minute rush.

I could use this quotation ... succinct, I'd say. And this is what doctors need to hear.

Take Care,
D


----------



## revdoc

Although I think it's not done a bad job in general, one thing that annoys me in the Simeon/Abugel book is the short piece about Lamotrigine as a treatment for DPD, which has a dismissive tone and doesn't give enough detail about the IOP studies of this drug. I know that the IOP/King's College have continued to be actively interested in Lamotrigine, and encouraging its use.
Indeed, (too late for this book) I found this on the IOP site:



> Sierra M, Baker D, Medford N, Lawrence EJ, Patel M, Phillips M, David AS. Lamotrogine in the Treatment of Depersonalisation Disorder. Clinical Neuropharmacology. 2006 in press
> 
> Depersonalisation disorder (DPD) is the persistent subjective experience of unreality and detachment from the self. To date there is no known treatment. Lamotrigine as sole agent was not found to be effective in a previous double-blind randomised crossover trial although open trials were encouraging. We carried out an open label trial of lamotrigine in patients with DPD seen in a specialist clinic. The majority were also receiving other medications, mostly selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors. 32 patients agreed to participate and had complete follow-up data. 16 (50%) showed a significant improvement (mean 40%) in their depersonalisation symptoms, as rated by standard and novel scales, assessed 16.6 months after commencing treatment. Concomitant symptoms of depression also showed improvement but this did not account for the specific effect on DPD. There were no serious adverse effects. The results of this trial suggest that a significant number of patients suffering from DPD may respond to lamotrigine, particularly when combined with antidepressant medication. The results are sufficiently positive to prompt a larger controlled evaluation of lamotrigine as ?add-on? treatment in DPD.


http://tinyurl.com/q8gm6


----------



## Dreamer

revdoc said:


> Although I think it's not done a bad job in general, one thing that annoys me in the Simeon/Abugel book is the short piece about Lamotrigine as a treatment for DPD, which has a dismissive tone and doesn't give enough detail about the IOP studies of this drug. I know that the IOP/King's College have continued to be actively interested in Lamotrigine, and encouraging its use.
> Indeed, (too late for this book) I found this on the IOP site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sierra M, Baker D, Medford N, Lawrence EJ, Patel M, Phillips M, David AS. Lamotrogine in the Treatment of Depersonalisation Disorder. Clinical Neuropharmacology. 2006 in press
> 
> Depersonalisation disorder (DPD) is the persistent subjective experience of unreality and detachment from the self. To date there is no known treatment. Lamotrigine as sole agent was not found to be effective in a previous double-blind randomised crossover trial although open trials were encouraging. We carried out an open label trial of lamotrigine in patients with DPD seen in a specialist clinic. The majority were also receiving other medications, mostly selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors. 32 patients agreed to participate and had complete follow-up data. 16 (50%) showed a significant improvement (mean 40%) in their depersonalisation symptoms, as rated by standard and novel scales, assessed 16.6 months after commencing treatment. Concomitant symptoms of depression also showed improvement but this did not account for the specific effect on DPD. There were no serious adverse effects. The results of this trial suggest that a significant number of patients suffering from DPD may respond to lamotrigine, particularly when combined with antidepressant medication. The results are sufficiently positive to prompt a larger controlled evaluation of lamotrigine as ?add-on? treatment in DPD.
> 
> 
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/q8gm6
Click to expand...

I didn't see this post. Yes agreed, I wish there were more emphasis on the use of Klonopin (clonazepam) *and* Lamictal (lamotrigine). Both of these drugs seem to do something for DP. Both have been very helpful for me -- no cure, but a substantial improvement in quality of life. I know of one individual who has benefited greatly from Neurontin as well. Yes another anticonvulsant and perhaps mood stabilizer? (also anti-anxiety properties).

Also, someone asked about other research mentioned in the German book. I have the book in my possession -- thanks to Wendy who purchased it and sent it to me. (She got reimbursed!) 8) Man you guys in other countries pay a lot more for books! I am searching for a local uni student to translate some of it for me. I can figure some of it as my mother spoke fluent German.

Being someone who has researched DP over the years (but no expert) I did find "Unreal" to be lacking in terms of footnotes and a more extensive bibliography of research. The German book also has links to this site, as well as a number of other DP sites, a link to the IoP and Mt. Sinai. If I'm not mistaken this site wasn't even mentioned. I have to quadruple check on that one. *The layout of the book is cleaner and the focus more specific, perhaps more clearly directed at the mental health professional where "Unreal" speaks more to the DPd individual.

The German book seems to be more like a very lengthy Ph.D. thesis on the topic alone, where "Unreal" has many things included such as literature written by DP individuals, some comments on the mystical aspect of the experience. The latter is something I don't agree with, but is worthy of being discussed as it is of more interest to sufferers.*

Bottom line, I had to give it 5 stars on amazon, as it is indeed the first ENGLISH book on DP alone -- NO other dissociative disorders mentioned such as the ubiquitous DID/MPD. Unfortunately on amazon, such books are listed as "recommended" for further reading. I do find DP to be a different kettle of fish -- though related in some ways. I personally cannot relate to DID/MPD for some reason. But that's just me.

*It is unfortunate that the minute a book is completed it is already out of date. Such is the nature of research.*

I'm just glad Unreal is available for us English speaking folks. And it is another way of looking at DP. Mt. Sinai and the IoP are looking at different things. The combined work will produce even more information. It's like the French and the US working on AIDS. They ultimately complemented each other's work, though approaches were different.

Again thanks to Dr. Simeon!

*And it will be excellent to present the book at the NAMI Convention next year. This book HAD to be written. The word is getting out by leaps and bounds. Can't argue with that!*

Best,
D


----------



## revdoc

I _do_ think Simeon has done very well in a lot of ways. Throughout the book there are things that I recognise and understand, like the quote on the last para of page 9. It's very reassuring to me to read things like this in a book.[/b]


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## bobbi

Ok, honestly, who has read Stranger in the Mirror and Feeling Unreal? For those who have both DP and DR which book is better? I've read Stranger in the Mirror and it has some coping tips near the end of the book. It's pretty good so I am wondering if Feeling Unreal is worth buying. It the book helpful for beginner? Which book did you find more helpful?


----------



## Heartbeats

It's a shame I can't get them in Portugal.


----------



## Pancthulhu

I think the one way Feeling Unreal could be improved is if it included some self help techniques like meditation and controlled breathing. It is a very good book though, and I'll take it with me when I see a doctor next week (she doesn't think I have DP).


----------



## snrpro

I tried reading the book, but with my short attention span, I just found it too damn boring to finish it. From what I hear, the book has a lot of useful advice in it. Maybe I will pick it up again... in a few years.


----------



## whatisrealanymore

you guys im sure know how hard it is to find a book strictly about dp!!! most books that have anything about it have a single paragraph and nothing about dr... but then there's ten pages of depression and adhd!!! thank you, i will go to barnes n noble... when im not all poverty ridden!!!


----------



## peacedove

I took another stab at reading this book this week. I've only read the first two chapters....

and I've been skimming around...

I'm getting frustrated.

I relate of course, but I don't know, I guess maybe I was expecting it to give me some kind of direction? Or tell me something useful.... something I could use to help myself...

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood, I'm tired.

At least it's something I can show the docs though.


----------



## valleyshadows

whats this book all about??


----------



## Lynch_mob

I think we're brighter in the way we can really see the correct answer's, when someone say's something that requires a response we know the difference between wrong or right.. it's like we know where the conversation is going before it goes there. Just my opinion but i can relate to that comment, and could understand why they would say that.. I'm def going to pickup this book.


----------



## Bedge

I ordered a copy from Amazon on the weekend. But it has to come all the way over to Aussie Land. Should take a week or more. Looking forward to reading it.


----------



## suz

I don't have the attention span to read anymore; it's a shame because reading was one of my big passions.

Now I find myself reading the words bit not taking them in, I can read a whole chapter and not remember a word of it. Pointless exercise which depresses me.

How do I get my concentration back?! boo.


----------



## Guest

Welcome to Darren's world of dyslexia!... heh, although yours is short term so you can just have a taste of what life is like for me =*(. Hope you get your concentration back soon.



connoisseur of... said:


> Now I find myself reading the words bit not taking them in, I can read a whole chapter and not remember a word of it. Pointless exercise which depresses me.


----------



## suz

Yeah, it's horrible. I hope you get sorted to some extent soon too : )


----------



## Bedge

I do that. When you read the same sentance over and over and it doesnt sink in.

Well I will be sure to let you know of any highlights of the book!


----------



## Guest

how iod I get here?... lol?


----------



## LISA NICHOLS

YEAH i too have read this book although it sort of didnt sink in ... to be honest .. weird i know but i found the book kind of boring maybe the start was good but it just didnt gel with me im afraid ...

i want to write my write book ... but where do i begin ??? lol :roll:


----------



## Guest

Might be an idea to write a diary and see how that goes... just write down all of what needs to be expressed and you'll be supplying yourself with ammo for a book if you choose to make one.


----------



## graham

Hi Lisa, nice pic,is it you?
Sorry I got distracted. I see you are also from the good ol' U of K. I ordered Dr. Simeon's book from Waterstones nd was told publication date was late July. When I contacted them again they said it's been put back to August 2008. Have you managed to get it locally?

Graham


----------



## graham

God I'm stupid! It is of course Prof David's book that's been put back a year


----------



## Tracey O'Dea

Hi everyone,

Just new to the site but have read Simeons book. Thought it was a real eye opener and even though I don't relate to alot of the scenarios there are some elements that I can identify with.

What did everyone think about the medication area.

My DPD feels like it is a mix of flat dreamlike sensations with an edge of anxiety. How is it possible to feel flat and anxious at the same time. In chapter 8 Simeon introduces Evan Torch's cocktail of modafanil (a non amphetamine stimulant) coupled with an SSRI. to me this sounds like a good mix - it is only and instinctive feeling. What does everyone else think?


----------



## lyn

I just finished reading the book. There is no solution in the book. It's not scary to read but to me, so dead-on of what we experience. Someone with DP obviously helped Dr. Simeon. Bless her for putting it out there.

I'm keeping it nearby for a recap because it helps know you're not a nutcase, or alone.

Btw, does anyone as says it book, have the need to absorb all the info. of how the world began, everything deep, you want to talk of. No one 'gets' it near me, I crave to discuss things!!

Lyn


----------



## tifftoro

Just ordered it! Will let you all know how scary, i mean GREAT it is.. lol


----------



## Dwing

I have the book, but got someone else to read it.


----------



## ed

This book is dynamite.

I wish I'd had it 21 years ago, when I developed DP along with depression/anxiety or 16 years ago when I developed chronic and continuous DP.

Of course it couldn't have been written sixteen years ago, as so much of the research has been done since then.

There are a number of medication possiblities that my doctors haven't looked at, but even if it leads to no specific cure, the book helps me to understand much better what happened to me, and that can sometimes remove some of the sting of a condition. In other words I found a degree of therapy in just reading the book and relating its insights to my tangled history.

Don't be put off by the two "scary" illustrations and the "scary" subtitle, "The Loss of the Self". I hope these things don't put DP sufferers off obtaining/reading the book. It's is well worth reading - and maybe close friends and relations reading - if you want to understand what's happened to you and possibly move towards greater help.


----------



## = n

Unexpectedly, some tears came to eyes when i started reading it. Even though i'd found DP internet forums by 2004.

Something about holding a published work all about this thing in my hands was a moving experience. At the moment this book has become a kind of totem. I'm having to put off reading it cover to cover until i've completed a certain required essay.
I immediately related to Henri Fr?d?ric Amiel (in the literature and philosophy section) although being 24 i'm certainly not about to be appointed to any professorial post as he was.


----------



## userdp

see title


----------



## Gerda

Hi! I am new to this forum, but have read this book and all I could do was crying when reading through it. After SO many years I felt 'heard' 'seen' and 'understood'.

I hope to read some of your posts here too

Regards,
Gerda


----------



## ihavemessedupdreams

I dont read books, But I want to pick this one up.

my dp is full blown no emotions whatsoever and no thoughts - i have to manuly think (if that makes sense)
for 6 years straight. however, its been 7 years and I still have no emotions (some times odd "sensations")
and I now have thoughts and they are all painfull painfull thoughts and I have a habit of bringing my thoughts to life
and projecting them.

so I have made no progress and I wish for my thoughts to disaper

and as for a pre-onset? I agree 10000000000% !

and simiar personailtys? I also agree 1000000%

I was very emotional sensative (especcily my enviorment) and empthatic
apparntly these are the wrong things to be in this world


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## angelicaa

I just ordered the book as well. I havent been on this site in about two years, as my dp was completely gone for that time. But unfourtunately, it is back. I want to know why it comes and goes as it pleases. I didnt feel any stress or anxiety before this spell started, though i do have a history of panic attacks and general anxiety. Has anyone read "Overcoming DP and feelings of unreality" by Anthony S. David? I ordered that one too.


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## ihavemessedupdreams

i really think its just a gentic thing it has been on and off my whole life ever since i was small even for 5 minutes


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## bark

Selling my Feeling Unreal book By Dr. Simeon I'v read it 4 times 
for $29 free shipping if anyone is interested
IM me if you have PayPal


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## Guest

Price: ?15.19 & this item Delivered FREE in the UK

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Feeling-Unreal- ... 0195170229


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## desalpha3000

I was a patient at a private holistic healing centre for more than 4 months. It cost 20 grand (euro) and I was told that my 'mind is not present in the here and now'. I was also told that trauma and grass is the cause of my prediciment. I believed this would've helped me more than psychiatric pills but I was wrong. :? :?:


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## Roderer

desalpha3000 said:


> I was a patient at a private holistic healing centre for more than 4 months. It cost 20 grand (euro) and I was told that my 'mind is not present in the here and now'. I was also told that trauma and grass is the cause of my prediciment. I believed this would've helped me more than psychiatric pills but I was wrong. :? :?:


Sure. That holistic thing is supersticious crap, with absolute lack of scientifical support.

Just like Dr. Simeon's "researches" :mrgreen:


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## optimusrhyme

Dr. Simeons book was great.. the only thing i thought was wierd was when I told her my name was "Jordan" and she signed my book "To Jorky" ?? lol.. oh well, but no shes a great lady in person and was really down to earth! I appreaciate everything shes done.


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## tikobird

I loved Dr. Simeons' book. I recommend this book for all who suffer from depersonalization and want to read about others who have this disorder. The book gives a lot of insight into the various aspect of it and I could relate to it. I felt less alone. :roll:


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## Rein

Optimusrhyme said:


> Dr. Simeons book was great.. the only thing i thought was wierd was when I told her my name was "Jordan" and she signed my book "To Jorky" ?? lol.. oh well, but no shes a great lady in person and was really down to earth! I appreaciate everything shes done.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kate_edwin

i've read all but the epilogue, it seems the stories they started in the beginning about people never got finished, they dont say this made this person better, all the medication talk is "its not on the market yet" "not available yet", and the breeze through talk therapies, it really didnt' give me too much hope or encouragment. it was kind of just a description for people. and it's a good description, but.....


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## Guest

Hi..yeah grabbed the book the day it came out. Its dead on and amazing. Im talkin from 15yrs of chronic dp/dr. The beginning is kinda slow for us...but then I was amazed at how they described and went into areas where I never thought they could..well with not having it and wording it so well..intense but NOT scary. I felt comfort that there was a massive understanding...to the degree of time distortion-living in the past-future and present all at once. Thats just a tiny part of what they do say and understand. Dont be afraid to read it. Yes I was as well...but its not like that at all.

Jace


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## Lee

Two clients of mine have read this book and found Dr. Simeon's work to be very confirming. She just switched her association from Mt. Sinai to Beth Israel Hospital. I like how straight forward she is. She is the leading researcher in this area and an all-around wonderful professional.


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## Ayato

I really loved the DP and literature section. Would be great to see more writing on that subject.


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