# What's the difference from enlightenment?



## chris51

Why can't DP be some form of enlightenment? I feel like DP/DR is similiar to when I meditate but without feeling fear/anxiety. Doesn't the nothingness feel similiar to you?


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## chris51

I just read some old posts that it is not reccomended that DP/DR meditate. I find it relaxing. It helps me by slowing down my thoughts. I can go into the nothingness and not feel scared. There is nothing wrong with the nothingness.

Just my thing.


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## flowingly

i can't feel my DR without the fear. to me they go hang in hand.


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## british_lad

Hey Chris you should check out my thread 'Thinking outside the box' on the main discussion topic, we've come up with some similar stuff


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## Scattered

If enlightenment is the complete release from suffering, desire, attachment, and negative thought patterns...then DP is the complete opposite for obvious reasons.


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## Tab

Scattered said:


> If enlightenment is the complete release from suffering, desire, attachment, and negative thought patterns...then DP is the complete opposite for obvious reasons.


It is not obvious to anyone other than yourself. Depersonalization is no more or less than what you make it. If you believe that you were better before, and that you've lost something special, then it is hell. On the other hand, if you move past this and come to realize that you are no worse now than you were before, you will understand that it can mean whatever you wish it to. That depersonalization is suffering is a myth that is perpetuated by repeating it. It is not bad. It is at most only "different". The sooner you realize this, the sooner you can stop obsessing over what you may or may not have lost, and begin living again.


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## Epiphany

Tab...perhaps this depends on the severity of your dp. Some people on this site have had dp/dr as long as they can remember...and they still find it hell. Even though they don't remember what it was like prior to dp/dr they still find it a horrible affliction to live with.

Perhaps it depends on your severity and the level of anxiety that accompanies it rather than your perpective.

I know at times when I was dp'd and not experiencing the panic and anxiety, I felt "enlightened" and strong...in these moments I felt every bit of what you were saying...I felt as though I had been given a glimpse of an "ultimate reality" and that I had somehow gained a greater understanding of consciousness etc. Then...BAM!!! The panic would set in again and I again be terrified of my new "differences".

With your experiences did you have the anxiety and fear of yourself? Did you have the negative thoughts and excessive ruminating? If not then I can understand some of what you are trying to say, but if you felt the panic and pure dread that more often than not goes hand in hand with dp, then what Scattered has written makes a lot of sense.


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## frony

What's the difference? - Uh, I don't know...ain't enlightment supposed to feel good?


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## IvyGray

Umm, everyone always seems to be focusing on the psychological and philosophical aspects of DP/DR symptoms. Yes, experiencing DP causes you to question reality and so brings some (but not all) people to question their existential beliefs, hence bringing on philosophical thoughts that can feel like "enlightenment". But what about the purely physical and perceptual symptoms? Personally most of what I experience falls under that realm. I don't consider a having constant 2D vision with a lack of depth perception, no night vision whatsoever, and horrid confusion in busy and loud environments to be any sort of enlightenment. As far as the philosophical thoughts go .. how many people truly began feeling "enlightened" only when they experienced DP? I had those same thoughts long before I ever developed this disorder. DR for me is strictly a perceptual problem, that then causes me terrible anxiety. I can not relate to this being classified as any sort of "enlightenment". I think that only applies to people who never thought in philosophical terms before this happened to them.

ps - Frony, a fellow Czech :wink:


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## Epiphany

> I think that only applies to people who never thought in philosophical terms before this happened to them.


I disagree wholeheatedly with this comment...personally, I always thought in philosophical terms prior to dp. I never felt "enlightened" prior to dp though...knowledgable yes, perhaps a little spiritual, but did not experience what I would call an "enlightened" feeling. 
When dp'd (without the panic and physical symptoms), I would feel moments of extreme clarity and felt as though I had gained knowledge of some "ultimite reality" or something equally strange, similar to the descriptions some buddhists give about becoming enlightened. So in this aspect I can relate. 
I don't think I experienced any symtpms of DR to any real degree so I find your experience a little more difficult to relate to.

I am inclined to think that this "enlightened" feeling may be a symptom in itself as I have not had this feeling since my dp has receded. Perhaps it is related to the feelings of increased awareness, lucidity and ultra-sanity that some people describe. 
One thing I have noticed is that although we all describe a common theme with our symptoms, we don't all experience or relate to them all...just as I can't relate to most of the DR symptoms that you have described IvyGray.


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## Tab

IvyGray said:


> Umm, everyone always seems to be focusing on the psychological and philosophical aspects of DP/DR symptoms. Yes, experiencing DP causes you to question reality and so brings some (but not all) people to question their existential beliefs, hence bringing on philosophical thoughts that can feel like "enlightenment". But what about the purely physical and perceptual symptoms? Personally most of what I experience falls under that realm. I don't consider a having constant 2D vision with a lack of depth perception, no night vision whatsoever, and horrid confusion in busy and loud environments to be any sort of enlightenment. As far as the philosophical thoughts go .. how many people truly began feeling "enlightened" only when they experienced DP? I had those same thoughts long before I ever developed this disorder. DR for me is strictly a perceptual problem, that then causes me terrible anxiety. I can not relate to this being classified as any sort of "enlightenment". I think that only applies to people who never thought in philosophical terms before this happened to them.
> 
> ps - Frony, a fellow Czech :wink:


I agree wholeheartedly with this -- no part of DP/DR has had any relation at all to my philosophical or mental state. It has been a purely perceptual phenomenon.



Epiphany said:


> Tab...perhaps this depends on the severity of your dp. Some people on this site have had dp/dr as long as they can remember...and they still find it hell. Even though they don't remember what it was like prior to dp/dr they still find it a horrible affliction to live with.
> 
> Perhaps it depends on your severity and the level of anxiety that accompanies it rather than your perpective.
> 
> I know at times when I was dp'd and not experiencing the panic and anxiety, I felt "enlightened" and strong...in these moments I felt every bit of what you were saying...I felt as though I had been given a glimpse of an "ultimate reality" and that I had somehow gained a greater understanding of consciousness etc. Then...BAM!!! The panic would set in again and I again be terrified of my new "differences".
> 
> With your experiences did you have the anxiety and fear of yourself? Did you have the negative thoughts and excessive ruminating? If not then I can understand some of what you are trying to say, but if you felt the panic and pure dread that more often than not goes hand in hand with dp, then what Scattered has written makes a lot of sense.


Yes, of course, I have gone through these facets of the disorder, mostly in the first three to four months. However, I have come to realize that these feelings were purely a matter of perspective. My reason for being terrified was the fear of having lost something -- a fear that, I found, I could not justify (as I could not actually quantify any mental loss -- only a vague feeling). This made me able to both embrace and, at the same time, utterly neglect the feeling of depersonalization altogether. I'm not entirely convinced that the case is different with anyone else -- as I, too, previously found it to be a wretched state where I could not deal with people, could not comprehend things, and could not properly focus my eyes. I eventually came to see that these were complex mental tricks I was playing on myself by feeding into the feeling of distraction and depersonalization, and most of that was because of my fear/anxiety of it.


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## Tab

Come to think of it, to say that depersonalization has had no effect on me philosophically isn't entirely true. While it hasn't had a direct effect, it has served to show me how utterly fragile one's mental construction of reality really is. It forced me into a much deeper form of subjectivism, where it is apparent that reality exists soley in the mind, regardless of whether there is a "true" objective reality going on outside of it. The only way we can ever know reality is through our own experiences in our minds, and therefore the only way to truthfully speak of reality is subjectively. Something like that.


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## chris51

But that is it, take away your reaction to DP/DR. What do you have? To me if feels like enlightment. I agree with alot of what Tab says. There are times I feel such clarity with my mind and the world, so at peace a good feeling of nothingness, the positive side of DP. But then the panic sets in and I label it as"weird" and then I get uncomfortable with the "feeling" and I become very subjective.

For me I've had DP as long as I can remember. THe intensity varies.

Interesting replies.


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## IvyGray

Chris51, this just reinforces my thoughts that even within the group of us that all suffer from DP/DR, our individual experiences are different almost to the point of not even being the same disorder. There is no philosophical componant to my personal experience, in fact I would say 90% of it is purely visual/perceptual. The other 10% being straight anxiety over not "seeing" the world correctly and the worry that I will always be this way. If I removed my reaction to DR all that would be left is the annoying/confusing visual and auditory blur, minus the anxiety over it. I wonder if those who equate having DP with an "enlightened state" are more suffering from an existential angst than strictly DP/DR symptoms? Maybe the experience of feeling depersonalized can cause one to question their own existence and force them to deconstruct the reality of the world around them as they thought they knew it, for the first time. And being DP'd most definitely causes you to realize the fragility of the mind. I suppose this could feel like some sort of awakening if it took being in a depersonalized state to become aware of this dual perception of reality. However, I still believe that DP and DR refer to the perception of self and perception of the external world. I can not relate to anyone who in turn does not relate to the literal definition of DP/DR .. the visual darkness, the static, the fog, the tunnel vision and lack of depth perception, unreality and confusion, and literal feeling of detachment from ones physical body. How can that state be considered enlightenment?


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## chris51

I get the visual misperceptions. I guess put that aside too. I don't know how to explain......I get sense that I am aware of the "different plane", the "mindlessness" the "no-mind" whatever you want to call it...'DP" That unreal feeling is connected to enlightment.


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## terri*

> There is no philosophical componant to my personal experience, in fact I would say 90% of it is purely visual/perceptual. The other 10% being straight anxiety over not "seeing" the world correctly and the worry that I will always be this way.


IvyGray, this is pretty much where I am now. When it all first started the percentage of anxiety was much heigher, but thru the years ( and some meds), it is at a manageable 10%. But I do absolutely HATE not seeing things like I saw them for all the years before the DR began.

Oh, and I have never felt enlightened due to this disorder. I am thankful for my ignorance at this point because to do all that extra thinking would drive me up a wall. :lol:

Signed,
Happily Unenlightened


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## chris51

Pretty wild how we can have the same general feeling with different symptoms. I have to say mine is 50% philosophical and 25% visual and 25% straight anxiety.

Though I get the feeling mine is much more difficult to treat. :shock:


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## walkingdead

If Dp has enlightened me it has made me lose all beliefs in anything spiritual or supernatural. I have come to the conclusion that there is no right or wrong. The only reality is that we are here just as rocks, water, animals and stars and when we go it does not matter. When I lost my emotions I lost all ability to see anything but the present and no past or future matters or for that matter(pardon the pun) neither does the present.
Maybe that is enlightenment? Realizing that everything I liked, disliked, believed in and strived for was just and illusion of my own making? I wish I could go back to ignorant bliss. I was so much less miserable then.


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## Epiphany

> If Dp has enlightened me it has made me lose all beliefs in anything spiritual or supernatural. I have come to the conclusion that there is no right or wrong. The only reality is that we are here just as rocks, water, animals and stars and when we go it does not matter. When I lost my emotions I lost all ability to see anything but the present and no past or future matters or for that matter(pardon the pun) neither does the present.
> Maybe that is enlightenment? Realizing that everything I liked, disliked, believed in and strived for was just and illusion of my own making? I wish I could go back to ignorant bliss. I was so much less miserable then.


Yeah...everything you just said!!!! That is how I felt too...but at the same time it made me feel stronger. 
Right or wrong became irrelevant for me as well...I felt that the "Universe" (for want of a better word), just does not care...everything felt like an illusion including morality...I felt there was no higher power waiting to punish us for anything.
I did feel part of a much more complex system though (not sure I would call it either spiritual or supernatural)...like part of some "collective consciousness"...strange feeling. Like a different plane of understanding that made all other "human" issues seem completely trivial and unimportant.

Now that most of my dp symptoms have eased, I have no idea what to think...I don't have those same feelings but most of those beliefs have stayed with me.

So strange to have everything you once believed turned completely on it's head.


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## sunyata samsara

I recommend reading this, i got it from a site called lovebliss. This is why i think DP is enlightenment. The font is better at the site...

http://lovebliss.eu/Selfrealization.htm

Self-realization
Self-realization means, of course, to realize the Self. This is very different from realizing the small self, or achieving self-actualization. In fact when realizing your true Self, you step out of the small self forever. There are two distinct types of Self-realization: one without lovebliss and one with.

The spiritual enlightenment project
Getting enlightened is the project of a lifetime. It is not something you just do at a couple of "spiritual" weekend seminars and then forget about. You will know when you are stuck in this project, because you will intuitively know that there is a Pure Self that is really you, and you will not rest, ever, until you merge with it.

Preparatory stage. Temporary witnessing.
Witnessing is different from self-observation. In self-observation the subject objectifies itself (looks at itself) and this is something everybody can do. In witnessing you step temporarily out of the subject and near into pure being (but not quite). It is characterized by being a witness to your small self, but not yet having consciously realized your real Self in oneness with it. Practicing "being in the now" is an attempt to reach this temporary witnessing (this practice can not take you further into Self-realization). One could say all meditative practices seek this witnessing-state one way or another, and when you have a good meditation, this is the stage of temporary freedom you reach. If you want to go beyond that, you have to leave the meditation practice behind at just the right moment and merge with the Self. Some meditations may be ecstatic and give rise to cosmic orgasms, but they are not necessarily deeper into the Self. Bliss and ecstasy signify a sudden arousal of kundalini and a rush of shakti through your system. Your bliss may be true lovebliss. To give you a hint about what is what, know that first there is love, then there is bliss and ecstasy, then there is silence in pure being, then there is love-bliss which is both more intense than bliss and ecstasy, yet totally calm and unmoving since it is the unmanifest Self and is causeless and without an object. You do not need ecstatic experiences to reach Self-realization as Pure Being without love-bliss. But there is no benefit in not developing the bliss of Shakti prior to merging with the Self, on the contrary. Some maintain bliss is a distraction, I say it is not as simple as that, because if the bliss is a symptom of an awakened kundalini, then merge with the bliss by all means and you will reach not only basic Self-realization sooner, but also move on from there sooner.

The witnessing state
It is possible to reach a state of freedom from identification with the "I", where the identification-mechanism is crushed, yet you are not Self-realized. This is the witnessing-state. It is the I AM-ness state, where one knows oneself to be nobody, but the most subtle I-ness has not been dissolved. It is easy to believe this state is Self-realization, since there are no identifications, one witnesses everything, and one has realized oneself as nothing (nobody). But this state is characterized by a duality between self-as-nobody and everything else, and as such it is truly witnessing everything. The self-as-nobody has a very, very subtle sense of being nobody (nothing), and one truly is nobody (nothing), but there still remains an unmanifest sense of I-ness. There will be a sense of "I am nothingness", thus the I is unmanifest. This is the basic I-ness principle. This I-ness is the root of ignorance.

Once I-ness goes away for ever, you are Self-realized. Self-realization can be without bliss or it can be with bliss, but it is the same basic freedom from I-ness and oneness with the Self.

Dark Night of the Mind -- Dark Night of the Soul (1)
As witnessing becomes more frequent and deepens, then you enter the Dark night of the Mind. This is what most people call the Dark Night of the Soul, however, it is more a transformation of the mind than of the soul. In this phase you are constantly confronted with how inadequately you understand what Self-realization is, and you have to constantly admit mental defeat. Ultimately the Dark Night of the Mind is the mind's and the I's fight against you getting free of identification with them. The mind will conceal this fight as an attempt to understand Self-realization, but basically it is keeping you in bondage. So in this phase you have to relentlessly tell the mind that it can not grasp what Self-realization is, yet you must try your best to understand. This paradoxical situation is frustrating. You think, you've got it, but then you realize you haven't. On a deeper level, you have meditative experiences which may linger on for a long time in everyday life, and this may trick you to believe you've got it, but this belief is the mind also. Know one thing for sure: If there is ANY sense of an I that has it, you haven't got it. This does not mean that every trace of personality (the I) should vanish, it means that there is no identification and that there is no I-ness left. Only I-ness and identification vanish. After they are gone the I is seen as an empty shell, like a body you are incarnated in.

Witnessing or ecstasy are not spiritual enlightenment
As you meditate, you will experience various states of consciousness -- and again and again you will think: "Ah! This is IT!". It may be Pure Being or ecstatic oceans of love or bliss. These states may be flashes or they may hang on for days or weeks. But they will eventually go away as long as the identification mechanism is intact and you haven't removed the basic I-ness. So, how do you break the identification mechanism? The only way is to merge with the Self. This means you will have to meditate every day. Just going about your everyday life trying to be in the now, Eckhart Tolle-style, will simply not do, for this will never make the basic I-ness vanish. At best it will put you in temporary states of witnessing, but this is so far removed from Self-realization, that it is barely worth mentioning.

Oneness with the Self can be so complete that you lose consciousness (nirvikalpa samadhi). When you come out of this samadhi, you will realize that something is very different and you will feel great joy. One day you will come out of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, regain consciousness and discover there is no longer an ego to come back to. When this happened to me, I did not even know my name or age for a whole day. In fact, I didn't even know I did not know, until my guru asked me what my name was and how old I was, and I could not answer. Fortunately personality and personal history returned, but I-ness never returned and the identification mechanism was gone. This state of freedom comes in an instant. It is either there or it is not; there is no in-between. You are not more or less free; that is not how it works. But when freedom comes, it may not be dramatic and can even be so subtle, you don't notice what really happened until much later, when the fact can't be denied anymore.

Self-realization. Nothingness-being. Freedom. Pure Being
Self realization is a state of total freedom from the small I where even the primal I-ness has gone (and the witness in witnessing is gone). We call this stage Self-realization because here the I-ness (and the identification mechanism which depends upon I-ness) is gone and you have attained oneness with the Self as pure being. Here there is no longer a sense of being nobody or being nothing. There simply is pure being. There is no point of awareness, for pure being is awareness without a source. In witnessing there is still a sense of being an awareness. One is not (yet) blissful. In its purity it is a peaceful state, but when you move on it can get very complicated. It takes a long time to bring IT into manifestation in everyday living. In other words, you have attained a state of freedom, but not yet found the love-bliss. You have stepped out of illusion and into pure being, but not yet into recognizing this pure being in everything around you. When the Self recognizes the Self in everything it is lovebliss. But in pure Self-realization, such a recognition is not (yet) present. Here there is non-duality in the Self, but duality between inner and outer (unmanifest and manifest).

Plain Self-realization is the death of the small self that was produced by identification with something that is not Self. But the personality does not vanish, it's just not you anymore. Some say the ego has to go away; that is a matter of definition: if you maintain the personality is the ego, then the ego will remain, if you maintain the ego is the sense of I (I-ness), then yes, ego will vanish.

From Pure Being to non-dual love-bliss
Once you are free of I-ness and identification, it is Self-realization. This does not mean you have got rid of the small self; you have just got out of it by merging with the Self. In fact the small self will feel all the more present as an empty shell and you will probably want to work hard to get rid of it.

If you have not experienced any love-bliss at this point, you will probably be quite content with this state and live happily in it for many years. If, however, you have experienced supreme love-bliss, you will feel an emptiness and a very strong longing to merge with the supreme love-bliss. You may project this longing for supreme love-bliss onto God and thus long intensely for God, but in reality it is a longing for the supreme love-bliss of the Self. Of course, at this point "God" has a completely different meaning than ever before, but that is a little difficult to put into words here.

At this stage, if you want to move on, you simply have to awaken and arouse kundalini and merge into oneness with Shakti on all levels of consciousness and also of the body. When kundalini reaches the heart, you will overflow with love, when it reaches the brain, you will be one with love-bliss and will recognize the Self in everything.

Dark Night of the Soul (2)
The period of transformation from pure nothingness-being to non-dual lovebliss can last a long time and cause many frustrations. It is the real Dark Night of the Soul. I lived in this state 23 years and suffered a lot because of it --also because nobody could tell me, what was going on and nobody respected my state and I was very lonely in a spiritual sense. So there was a lot of social frustration and loneliness. Ironically you are also free from suffering since you are no longer identified with the sufferer. You are of course a permanent witness, much as in the witness-state, though now there is no sense of being a witness.

Basically this phase is a period where the consciousness, you have stepped out of, disintegrates and become transparent. The goal is non-duality with respect to inner and outer, and in order to reach that, anything that hinders the Self from recognizing the Self in everything else, must dissolve. Here kundalini is your greatest ally. Some may fear kundalini because it to them at first seems to be a destructive energy. But what it destroys is ignorance, and as its process progresses, kundalini will manifest as love-bliss. When kundalini finally settles in the brain, you will be living in perpetual love-bliss and realize this to be the Self.

Self-recognition. Love-bliss
In the primal stage you have pure being which is empty and is not yet realized as what it is: pure bliss (sat-chit-ananda). Second stage begins to unfold only after kundalini has awakened. It is not possible to attain supreme love-bliss without arousing kundalini and merging it in the brain. A major part of kundalini has to reach the brain and stay there for good by merging with the Self. This means you need to develop and purify kundalini's passage up to the brain. Once kundalini settles in the brain, then the remaining unfoldment will go on by itself and there is no need for meditation. This is a state of perpetual bliss. You never lose the bliss, though it may wax and wane for various reasons. You don't even loose it while sleeping..

In this stage of Self realization, you see the supreme Self in everything and this recognition is non-dual lovebliss. It is non-dual because the Self within, the recognition and the Self without are the same. This unity is love-bliss.

Now, since some karma is intact, there is still a personality hanging around, though you know it is not you of course. You will, after Self realization, observe the personality do some strange and silly things and react in ways, that may seem unworthy of love-bliss. That is just karma unfolding and part of the process of the final breakdown of residual "ignorance". As that process goes on, the love-bliss takes you over completely. Later lovebliss may temporarily recede to the background because some transformation is going on inside. So even at this stage lovebliss is not stable.

Just as suddenly as freedom from the small self came about and I-ness vanished, you will suddenly find your kundalini does not leave the brain and you are constantly in a state of love-bliss. This can come as a major breakthrough or it can come rather unnoticed since kundalini may have been in the brain most of the time anyway, so you will only realize after some time that it is a permanent change. But one thing will not go unnoticed, and that is the flash of energy in the brain as kundalini makes the brain its new abode. You will feel the crown chakra opening and as if a million bubbles are exploding inside the brain. And most importantly you will feel like the brain dissolves into Shakti. When you open your eyes after that meditation, you will see the Self in everything around you. So it comes in a flash, but since you may be so used to love-bliss by now, and so used to losing it again, you may expect to lose this also. But one sweet day, it will not leave you anymore.

Beyond
Yes, there is more beyond this, but let the above suffice for now.


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## Pablo

If you are enlightened like the Buddha you feel the pain and suffering of all beings, you have a completely open heart all the time which means it is open to be hurt as well as to be compassionate, so if you are with a group of people you are completely open all the time to them without any defences. Whereas I don't think people with dp are even open to their own suffering, let alone the suffering of another group of people, and way off being open and having compassion for the suffering of all beings.

Enlightenment may not be pleasant but all that means is that you are completely open to all the pain in the world


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## Mushishi

Enlightenment is ridden in cryptic nonsense. But, I do know one thing... The road to enlightenment is insanity. Oh! There I go be'n cryptic again.


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## Guest

the suffering isn't a neccessary part of it. it just an "intense somethinge". but YOU get scared, YOU fear it, YOU think it into a catastrophe.


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## gill

I don't think enlightenment would come with the feeling of being half-retarded.


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## Guest

gill said:


> I don't think enlightenment would come with the feeling of being half-retarded.


agree. they say enlightenment is about being connected to your surroundings and being totally here and now. in DP, you're (feeling) totally disconnected and all you think about is terrible outcomes, which means you're totally in your thoughts, which is also the opposite of being present.


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## Guest

chris51 said:


> Why can't DP be some form of enlightenment? I feel like DP/DR is similiar to when I meditate but without feeling fear/anxiety. Doesn't the nothingness feel similiar to you?


i feel like it could very well be part of the process of a deep inner awakening. Definitely a dark night of the soul. It all depends on each person tho.. and the stage of their souls evolution. Some people have dp from severe trauma.. while others get it while contemplating existence and or expanding their awareness.

The nothingness does feel similar to me when i meditate and when i feel dp. I think the dp comes with fear because its as if one is pushed into nothingness without being prepared.. while when meditating .. it is a conscious choice to enter the nothingness.

Im sure if one can reconnect themselves to their higher-self while in the nothingness of DP.. then one can overcome the fear of dp.. and possibly see life with new sight much clearer than even before the dp.


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## anarkii

i think of it like this

Enlightenment = Deepened expanding awareness 
DP = Deepened contracting awareness


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## Felicity

The energy of enlightenment is different. It moves outwards, towards others. Depersonalization moves inwards, away from others. Enlightenment is inherently about becoming more spontaneous, more in sync with reality. Depersonalization stops that spontaneous energy and contracts it back to the conscious mind, causing paralysis.

It's like when you suddenly become aware you're walking; walking then becomes an awkward, stupid process. Whenever you "forget" what you're doing, you can walk naturally and easily. It's the same with enlightenment.

I think it's because in most people, conscious awareness only happens when they're learning something new. Most of the time, the subconscious takes care of everything important, while the conscious mind (located in the frontal cortex) is free to indulge in planning, fantasies, and whatever other crap people normally think about. Putting your conscious mind, which is the fore-brain and is the least genetically evolved, in charge of every moment, every choice, is like putting a retard at the wheel of a car. It is not developed enough to be useful, it does not know how to do things as quickly as the deeper parts of the brain, it'll crash the car before it realizes it has made a mistake.

It could be that DP'ers lose connection with their subconscious mind, and this is reflected by a greater perceived disconnection with the external world.


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## Antinatalist000

From what I understand enlightenment is about knowing who you truly are. Whatever comes and goes cannot be your self, so DP cannot be enlightenment. The state that doesn't come or go, that is the state of enlightenment and it isn't a goal to be reach. If you are aware OF SOME THING that concludes that it is an object being observed by you. Thoughts that arise, the body, the earth, the universe, and even subtle things like space are perceived by you. What "you" really are is unknowable but is always present. Thats what I have gathered.


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## Montezuma2Tripoli

Epiphany said:


> Yeah...everything you just said!!!! That is how I felt too...but at the same time it made me feel stronger.
> 
> Right or wrong became irrelevant for me as well...I felt that the "Universe" (for want of a better word), just does not care...everything felt like an illusion including morality...I felt there was no higher power waiting to punish us for anything.
> 
> I did feel part of a much more complex system though (not sure I would call it either spiritual or supernatural)...like part of some "collective consciousness"...strange feeling. Like a different plane of understanding that made all other "human" issues seem completely trivial and unimportant.
> 
> Now that most of my dp symptoms have eased, I have no idea what to think...I don't have those same feelings but most of those beliefs have stayed with me.
> 
> So strange to have everything you once believed turned completely on it's head.


I kinda recovered from dp/dr not too long ago too and feel exactly the same way. I have no idea what to believe in now that my symptoms have subsided. I almost feel like a blank slate. I kinda thought I'd feel a little more maybe some sort of sense of great accomplishment or triumph? But I don't really feel all that much. At least I'm glad to be back though.


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## tlemon

Enlightenment is the moment you become more learned. It is not really coming to senses or getting a good grip about reality but it is being learned and knowing more and seeing things clearer.

There are a lot of descriptions that could work with the term and it will generally be based on what you would see fit.

And as with coming to senses, different modes would work for different people and how they see it getting done.


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## Soundless Silence

This "DP" thing is what happens to people who start waking up. Meaning, every single one of you with this "DP" thing are actually just on the road of Enlightenment. Meditate, and the fear will disappear. 'Depersonalization' is just a concept. It's out there. It happens, and at some point it is over because you intuitively learned a lesson. It is falling away of the egoic perception, so to call this a "disorder" would be equal to regard thousands or even millions of spiritual seekers as suffering from a disorder.

Enlightenment has nothing to do with intellectual knowledge. It is the world - as it is - without the mind's interpretation of it.


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## sunyata samsara

Just read this quote from the Buddha: "Nirvana as a nightmare of daytime."

http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/101buddhaszen.html


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