# where am I?



## russo327

I cant believe 5 years has actually passed, from the day I dped life has just been flying by. I feel everyday that goes by never actually happens. I dont feel like ill ever get out of this someone needs to find the fucking cure!!!


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## Claymore

russo327 said:


> I cant believe 5 years has actually passed, from the day I dped life has just been flying by. I feel everyday that goes by never actually happens. I dont feel like ill ever get out of this someone needs to find the flower* cure!!!


Yeah i've had this for 4 years and I know exactly what you mean. Seems like a total waste :| . But there is good news as far as a cure is concerned, someone on here has more than likely found it. Seek out someone on here with the username "Tommygunz". He has been taking a combonation of supplements that are almost fully directed towards the brain. He's been taking them for about 2 weeks and his DP is almost gone. Seek him out and ask him about it, he has researched this extensively and not only does this make sense that these supplements would be perfect for dissociation, but a few people on here have already started trying it and it is working for them and their DP is fading. One of the supplements causes your brain synapsys to fire correctly (which they arent now) and fire in the right places, you combine them with the other 2, and you get the perfect combo. He even e-mailed the DP research unit in London and they e-mailed back saying basically that it made sense and they would look further into it and found it very interesting. I'm starting this treatment next week.  :wink:


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## Tommygunz

read my signature, research them for yourself, THEN DO IT!!!


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## Claymore

Tommygunz said:


> read my signature, research them for yourself, THEN DO IT!!!


Spoken by the man HIMMMMSEEEELF!!!!  :lol:


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## Guest

Cool,

Can these be found at over the counter health food stores?


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## Claymore

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Cool,
> 
> Can these be found at over the counter health food stores?


They can be found at places like GNC, Super Supplements, any supplement or vitamin shop.


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## Guest

I just walked briskly to the Sunflower Market and bought this stuff (they were closing when I got there). I couldn't remember the name of Inositol and I said isocotin and the employee said he hasn't heard of it, then I said choline, and he took me to it and it was Choline-Inositol Complex (TWO IN ONE!!!) I was thinking. And then I said Sublingual B Complex and he handed me that and said it was on Sale. Both have 60 Tablets and cost under A. Jackson.

Thanks Tommygunz, if this works you deserve to be the First African-American President of the U.S.A. (A Nobel Peace Prize). :mrgreen:


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## Guest

Oh my gawd, the Instant Dissolve Balance B Complex that was on Sale tastes like a rock!

It's so bad I was looking at the directions to see if it really was Sublingual and it reads, quote "Directions: Dissolve two tablets :shock: under the tongue daily as a dietary supplement. May also be swallowed as you would a regular tablet." They had to put that in there cause this thing tastes like Pilgrim Candy.


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## Guest

Is there an official thread for this :?:


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## Guest

russo327 said:


> I cant believe 5 years has actually passed, from the day I dped life has just been flying by. I feel everyday that goes by never actually happens. I dont feel like ill ever get out of this someone needs to find the flower* cure!!!


And yeah, I have had this 6 years and it seems like one moment ... one really long & short fucked up moment.


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## Claymore

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Oh my gawd, the Instant Dissolve Balance B Complex that was on Sale tastes like a rock!
> 
> It's so bad I was looking at the directions to see if it really was Sublingual and it reads, quote "Directions: Dissolve two tablets :shock: under the tongue daily as a dietary supplement. May also be swallowed as you would a regular tablet." They had to put that in there cause this thing tastes like Pilgrim Candy.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! you were supposed to get the liquid dripper kind of subligual b complex!!!!!!! :lol: And yeah the inositol-choline combo is what you were supposed to get. You could also get an extra bottle of inositol to take some extra of that for your schitzophrenia Dave, it could likely cure you of that as well. :wink:


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## Claymore

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Is there an official thread for this :?:


Yeah I think Tommygunz put one in the road to recovery section.


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## Guest

The Mini-Tablets are still going to work though right?


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## Guest

Claymore said:


> ThoughtOnFire said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there an official thread for this :?:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I think Tommygunz put one in the road to recovery section.
Click to expand...

Dude, Man...Wait What?

There is a "Road to Recovery" :shock:

:lol:


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## Tommygunz

i don't know, mine is liquid :lol:

give it a couple days, if you don't notice some subtle differences, maybe try and find the liquid. the important thing is.
B2-100%
B3-100%
B5-300%
B6-100%
B12-15,000-20,000%
choline-over 500mg-under 2000mg
inositol-over 1,000mg-under 20,000mg

yeah there's a little slack to work with on the choline and inositol.


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## Guest

Well You sure know more than I do about all of this, I didn't even know sublingual came in liquid form!

How are you feeling btw Tommygunz? Is it still improving your sense of reality?

I say we all team up and stab Depersonalization Disorder like they did Julius Caesar.


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## Tommygunz

i'm feeling good, getting better everyday, and i was thinking more like pulling a hiroshima on dp :lol: .


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## Guest

Tommygunz said:


> i don't know, mine is liquid :lol:
> 
> give it a couple days, if you don't notice some subtle differences, maybe try and find the liquid. the important thing is.
> B2-100%
> B3-100%
> B5-300%
> B6-100%
> B12-15,000-20,000%
> choline-over 500mg-under 2000mg
> inositol-over 1,000mg-under 20,000mg
> 
> yeah there's a little slack to work with on the choline and inositol.


I think they manufacturers of my product got there % values wrong:

B1-20mg-1,330%
B2-20mg-1,180%
Niacin-20mg-100%
B6-20mg-1,000%
Folate-800mcg-200%
B12-12mcg-200%
Biotin-600mcg-200%

And I don't know what 'mcg' is but it only started on the Folate. I'm going to have go back in the morning and get a refund and get the liquid dropper sublingual. ... And if you want to know where I'm going now ... I'm going to dig a receipt out of the trash ... and then smoke a cigarette.


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## Claymore

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Well You sure know more than I do about all of this, I didn't even know sublingual came in liquid form!
> 
> How are you feeling btw Tommygunz? Is it still improving your sense of reality?
> 
> I say we all team up and stab Depersonalization Disorder like they did Julius Caesar.


LETZZZZZ DO IT YA'LL!!!!!!!!!!


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## Tommygunz

mcg is micrograms, your still in a safe area with all of these but you could definitely add a lot more B12


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## Tommygunz

B1-20mg-1,330%
B2-20mg-1,180%
Niacin-20mg-100%
B6-20mg-1,000%
Folate-800mcg-200%
B12-12mcg-200%
Biotin-600mcg-200%

also add vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid). that will give you all B vitamins that are necessary for healthy brain function, and increased neurotransmitter activity.


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## Guest

Hey it seems to be working already.


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## russo327

thanks a lot guys im definitely gonna get this stuff today!!! I pray to god it does something cause i have been feeling really down lately. its also good to know there are people that i can relate to!


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## York

Hi.. In this Norwegian online shop I found it's suggested you take up to 1500 mg a day of the inositol/choline supplement.
I'd be a bit careful starting off on a higher dose, if it's one thing the Norwegian health department does, it's researching these things. 20.000 mg sounded crazy.


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## dragonhat

Russo, wanted to let you know, Tommygunz recommended this stuff to me 5 days ago, I went on it and can definitely tell a difference.

I've still definitely got DP, but its only been 5 days, but I do feel much better than I have in a long time. Anxiety is gone, suicidal ideas I've had for years are fading, I can concentrate better. Life is just all around improved.


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## Tommygunz

dragonhat said:


> Russo, wanted to let you know, Tommygunz recommended this stuff to me 5 days ago, I went on it and can definitely tell a difference.
> 
> I've still definitely got DP, but its only been 5 days, but I do feel much better than I have in a long time. Anxiety is gone, suicidal ideas I've had for years are fading, I can concentrate better. Life is just all around improved.


i am so glad to here that . wait till the second week thats when i noticed some big changes, like my physical awareness of my surrounding or (ESP) came back. among many other thing that are balancing out. it is as if the pieces of the puzzle are finally falling into place.


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## Claymore

russo327 said:


> thanks a lot guys im definitely gonna get this stuff today!!! I pray to god it does something cause i have been feeling really down lately. its also good to know there are people that i can relate to!


Its gonna work, trust me. Every person that has tried this since Tommygunz stumbled accross the idea is seeing improvement within the first few days or less. I CAN'T WAIT TO START IT THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!


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## Claymore

ThoughtOnFire said:


> Hey it seems to be working already.


TOLD YA' DAVE!!!!!  Glad to hear it!!!!!!!.


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## Claymore

Tommy txted me last night saying that he finally knew why these supplements were working after doing some more research. These were his exact words.

"After studying neurotransmitters, I now realize that DP is a lack of neurotransmitter activity and these supplements are working because they increase the activity of specific neurotransmitters that are directly linked to ALL symptoms of DP"

TAKE THAT YOU DP DEMON!!!!!!! :twisted: We'll all be better in no time as soon as everyone on here hears about this!!!!!!!!.   

FIIIINNNNAAAAALLLLLYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: 
Its so ironic that a normal guy with DP figured out how to treat it effectively and the freakin DP researchers didn't know squat!!!!!!!!! :lol:


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## dragonhat

I'm sure the people receiving funding are looking for a solution that allows the medical industry to profit, thus justifying the money invested in researching it.

If the answer is "take these supplements", there's no money to be made except by supplement suppliers.


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## Claymore

dragonhat said:


> I'm sure the people receiving funding are looking for a solution that allows the medical industry to profit


EXACTLY!!!!!!!! I think the "medical industry" profits enough EVERY DAY!!!!!!! Screw them!!!!!!, A DPD person just figured it out on his own and we no longer need them wasting our time :roll: .


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## russo327

tommy did you buy seperate bottles of each vitamin or did yours come in that dosage? if so what is the brand name?


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## CoffeeGirl9

is walking weird for anyone else? like it feels so unnatural to walk? not because you are floaty or anything...just because its not really you who is walking...just a frame?

i am going to try supplement stuff i think....is it super expensive?


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## Claymore

CoffeeGirl9 said:


> i am going to try supplement stuff i think....is it super expensive?


no you can get them for under 20 or 30 bucks. :wink:


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## Tommygunz

russo327 said:


> tommy did you buy seperate bottles of each vitamin or did yours come in that dosage? if so what is the brand name?


the sublingual B was separate, the inositol and choline were one compound, although i got inositol separately also to be able to add more at certain intervals, at the moment i am taking 750 mg choline and 1,250 mg of inositol, which i will soon increase to 1,000 over 1,750.


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## CoffeeGirl9

Tommygunz...,can you please write out the exact doses again....i can't put all these messages together and figure out what i'm supposed to take. thanks so much. appreciate it and thanks for sharing! are any brands better then others...i know i usually take USANA supplements and daily and that is a pricier vitamin....


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## rob35235

If you guys are convinced B vitamin deficiency is the problem, how about going to directlabs.com and ordering blood tests to measure your levels?


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## Guest

I did a module on Cell signalling and Neurotransmitters at uni (Biology degree) and I must admit I have been thinking along the lines of slowed down nerve impulses myself - i.e. slowed down brain/nerve impulses = weird feelings/foggy head etc. The whole DP experience is like you question every little thing because it's kinda slowed down giving you the chance to dwell on anything and everything - if this makes sense.
Plus acetyl choline is one of the primary neurotransmitters.
I might dig out my old textbook and revise it all a bit and see if I can beef up this potential therapy - I would be interest, Tommygunz in some more detailed info via pm or email if you wouldn't mind as I am generally fascinated by human biology!
May well give it a go, been generally feeling quite a bit better recently so might just give me that push!


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## edward_morden

Can these supplements do any harm or is it totally safe to try them out?


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## Claymore

rob35235 said:


> If you guys are convinced B vitamin deficiency is the problem, how about going to directlabs.com and ordering blood tests to measure your levels?


It dosent really have anything to do with deficiency. Its all about the neurotransmitters and the synapsys firing correctly. All of these supplement cause these things to work correctly. Here is what its about, heres a post from Tommygunz on why they work.

Inzom wrote:
So is this about the now semi-famous B6-B12-Choline-Inolisol combo?

Tommygunz wrote:

you forgot, B1,2,3,5,7, and 9 :lol: . but seriously, the science behind this makes perfect sense. these supplements naturally increase the production and activity of acetylcholine and serotonin, two of the primary neurotransmitters that control, mood, alertness, mental focus, concentration, sensory perception, motivation, anxiety, depression, memory, learning ability, obsessive compulsive thinking and behavior, thought, energy and stamina, and thats only about half of the list. since starting this treatment i have seen improvement in all of these areas and more, and while all of these things have been getting better, the fire that was dp/dr BURNT OUT!


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## jaynon

right now i am taking 300mg 5HTP and 3 capsules of cod liver oil daily, with these two alone i have noticed a great change in my dp/dr and depression. now, do you think there would be any problem if i added choline,inositol and the sublingual B- to my current supplements?


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## Claymore

jaynon said:


> right now i am taking 300mg 5HTP and 3 capsules of cod liver oil daily, with these two alone i have noticed a great change in my dp/dr and depression. now, do you think there would be any problem if i added choline,inositol and the sublingual B- to my current supplements?


No, I highly dought that they would do anything but help you MUCH further!!!!!  I don't think there will be any problems, but my friend Tommy will be on here later after he does his daily stuff. You can ask him.


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## jaynon

Claymore said:


> jaynon said:
> 
> 
> 
> right now i am taking 300mg 5HTP and 3 capsules of cod liver oil daily, with these two alone i have noticed a great change in my dp/dr and depression. now, do you think there would be any problem if i added choline,inositol and the sublingual B- to my current supplements?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I highly dought that they would do anything but help you MUCH further!!!!!  I don't think there will be any problems, but my friend Tommy will be on here later after he does his daily stuff. You can ask him.
Click to expand...

sweet deal! thanks a lot man, i will definitely be on here later to see what he has to say. he seems like an intelligent dude


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## Claymore

Report this postReply with quotemy theory proposed to Dr. Sierra
by Tommygunz on Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:46 pm

this is my e-mail to Dr. Mauricio Sierra-Siegert regarding my theory, keep in mind this is only a brief overview.

TO: Mauricio Sierra-Siegert
FROM: Tommy <[email protected]>

i am sorry if i am being a pest, but if there is one person i feel i should consult about this, i believe it is you. upon further analysis i have concluded that the supplements i am taking have been effective due the fact their function has been to raise production and activity of acetylcholine and serotonin. thus potentially decreasing hyperactivity of dopamine. in short, what i have learned is that insufficient serotonin and an over abundance of dopamine could account for every aspect of dp. while the excessive dopamine would account for the distorted perception of reality, obsessive and compulsive thought and behavior, and increased irritability and aggression. the insufficient serotonin would account for, poor memory, lack of concentration, depression, anxiety, and also the obsessive compulsive traits along with many other symptoms. by naturally increasing the serotonin we can alleviate the underlying symptoms while also regulating the balance of dopamine and serotonin, thus diminishing the distortion of reality. while i have been learning all of this through research, i have also been witnessing it in my own case along with a few others. meanwhile by raising the level of acetylcholine, we are able increase awareness, memory, learning, concentration, and overall fine tune our sensory perception. overall i have been unable to disprove this theory, yet, have been able to prove it over and over again, i would greatly appreciate your feedback.


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## Claymore

jaynon said:


> sweet deal! thanks a lot man, i will definitely be on here later to see what he has to say. he seems like an intelligent dude


Your welcome bro. :wink: And yeah we talk on the phone for a long time and he's super smart.


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## Surfingisfun001

Hey Tommy I'm quite interested in the research you've been doing. Before buying these products can you tell me what these supps do differently than anti-deps/other medication?


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## Tommygunz

jaynon said:


> right now i am taking 300mg 5HTP and 3 capsules of cod liver oil daily, with these two alone i have noticed a great change in my dp/dr and depression. now, do you think there would be any problem if i added choline,inositol and the sublingual B- to my current supplements?


i cannot say for sure, with 5HTP being a precursor to serotonin, the reaction with inositol could be one of a beautiful harmony, or it could lead to an overproduction of serotonin. this is the kind of thing you would definitely want to talk to your doctor or pharmacist about.


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## Tommygunz

surfingisfun001 said:


> Hey Tommy I'm quite interested in the research you've been doing. Before buying these products can you tell me what these supps do differently as opposed from anti-deps/other medication?


well what i have learned about antidepressants is that while they do boost serotonin, they can also mimic dopamine and become a dopamine agonist. in this case, the reason for them not showing significant improvement is that although serotonin is increased, so is dopamine activity, thus maintaining the imbalance, just at a higher level.


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## jaynon

Tommygunz said:


> jaynon said:
> 
> 
> 
> right now i am taking 300mg 5HTP and 3 capsules of cod liver oil daily, with these two alone i have noticed a great change in my dp/dr and depression. now, do you think there would be any problem if i added choline,inositol and the sublingual B- to my current supplements?
> 
> 
> 
> i cannot say for sure, with 5HTP being a precursor to serotonin, the reaction with inositol could be one of a beautiful harmony, or it could lead to an overproduction of serotonin. this is the kind of thing you would definitely want to talk to your doctor or pharmacist about.
Click to expand...

in that case, i will probably stop taking 5 htp or cut it down to 100mg a day before bed. thanks!


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## edward_morden

edward_morden said:


> Can these supplements do any harm or is it totally safe to try them out?


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## Claymore

edward_morden said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can these supplements do any harm or is it totally safe to try them out?
Click to expand...

That I can tell you. Its completely safe. :wink:


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## Tommygunz

edward_morden said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can these supplements do any harm or is it totally safe to try them out?
Click to expand...

based on all of the information i have found they are completely safe to try. however, they advise if taking any medications (especially in the target areas of serotonin, acetylcholine, and dopamine) talk to your doctor first. the last thing we need is someone to have an adverse reaction by jumping in head first. i advise to start off in small doses (not exceeding the RDA) to see how you will react. then gradually increasing dose based on your reaction.


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## edward_morden

So how can it be "better" or "almost destroyed"?
I mean... either its there or not. In my opinion there is no "transition" or whatever between cured and not cured.

So what exactly do you mean with that? Do you have now moments where it isn't there? Like few seconds where everything seems real and okay?
Or even like one whole day where you are rly cured but after sleeping everything is crazy again?

Or do you mean you still have depersonalisation/derealisation but it feels better now ? Whats the point of feeling slightly better but not cured?
Have you even ever been again into real life since depersonalisation? Do you even remember how real life was? 
To what do you compare this "better state" if you aren't yet in real life?

Or are you like "Yeah, its almost over, I feel it, I know it" ? Why can you even be sure that this isn't only a desperate wish? How can you be sure that this better feeling isnt a deeper state of depersonalisation and its not better but new and so you interpreting it as more real.. closer to reality? 
How can you be sure that this feeling isn't a hallucination or like mind made crazy state of being? I mean if you are able to think you are unreal, not you whatever... in a kind of dreamstate... why shouldnt it be possible that you are just "imagine" new stuff?

Why do you even think that this state in which you are isn't the real one? Like the one most of the people have? I mean who tells you what is real and what not? Whats the right and better state and which isn't? I mean you only lived your life.. or I guess... you only have the memories in your brain which belong to your brain so how can you say that the state before was the right good and normal one and this is the bad and evil wrong one?
Maybe the state before wasn't better and you just didn't realize it? Maybe you just have a longing for a perfect life and now you imagine that you were in an awesome utopia state where everything was sooo beautiful and real but in reality you where never in a state which was awesome? Or where you? Like total happy and fully in love with life and world? Or did you just now realize that you had a very very wonderful state of mind and now you lost it and have to get it? 
Are you sure you aren't hunting the wrong state?
How can you be sure? What should I expect? What should real life be like? How can I then finally recognize if its real and the normal state?
To what do you or should I compare my state of mind? To my fully distorted memories? I mean like I imagined my whole life long, even before depersonalisation, that life will get awesome and beautiful and just bliss... I now imagine that it was full of bliss and I lost it. I have to get my awesome state again. I don't rly know how its like cause if I would know I probably could know whats different and get back to the state whatever... but I know it was just AWESOME and soooo real? Isn't it like that?
I mean I think my anxiety paranoia sadness etc is only here cause of my depersonalisation but I knew also that I had a lot anxiety and was very sad before I got it.
So WTF! What are we hunting? I'm confused  I just wanna be happy and in reality but I don't know what happiness and reality is 

My state of mind changes everyday. Everyday I feel completely different or probably I just cant remember the states from the last day or moment.
Depersonalisation is different all the time. Sometimes more fearful, sometimes more numb but always not the state I would like to have.

... if I am awake more than ca. 18hours I start feeling more dissociated... every hour it gets stronger and I get more anxiety.. and sometimes I feel good after a long time but also very very very dissociated.
Even if I'm in a different light or if I drink a tea or coffee(caffeine) my depersonalisation gets stronger or just different. In winter it seems stronger than in the summer and during night times it increases the most.
Specific thoughts can change my whole perception of life or being/consciousness from one second to the other completely.

Or like if I'm meditating and am able to not stop although my anxiety increases a lot during it I sometimes manage to get to the best state imaginable where only bliss exists and nothing more. Where I can see through the whole existence and this useless thoughts and interpretations. Is this real life? Reality? I feel like that in this absolut bliss state. I feel like back where I belong to. Home! But wtf... its not what my thoughts say after that. I'm just confused.
What should I be searching for? How can I know what is real and what not?

I guess depersonalisation is only a problem of you memory. Nothing more. You cant remember your states of being and mind and so you don't know how you felt 1 sec ago or last day or 2 years before you got depersonalisation. Like thoughts are always connected to the past... there is no possible thought which is in the now.. in the moment! Everything is connected to old stuff which first has to be processed in your brain... even if you look at your hands or in the mirror.
Its all just about the memory and the thing that you believe your current state isn't the one it should be cause you cant remember that you always felt like that.
You are lost cause you cant remember any state of mind. Nothing. No emotional contact and nothing to the past state of minds... maybe some thoughts or pictures of what you saw etc... but no further connection.
Just stop thinking and go into what is.. this moment. Its always awesome. Even now I guess. Stop judging your life. Don't say it should be different whatever. No it shouldn't cause if it should it would be different. Maybe it will be different but now it isn't so stay with what is.

I mean... yes it would be awesome if it would be that easy... eating some supplements and after 1month or whatever being in utopia in total bliss and reality... but... depersonalisation is much more complicated than just some crazy functioning neurotransmitter. Depersonalisation is the realization of life :mrgreen: 
I rly think there cant be a cure cause you would also have to erase you experiences and memories you gained during depersonalisation. You would have define a reality etc.
Where should I compare to if its wrong or not. If I'm in reality or in insanity? Are there any rules where I can read about that?
You really think you can just go back to reality? In a "real" (whatever that means) state where everything is just pure love without anxiety and detachment from the body etc. With a real ego and good thoughts? Forget this crazy state of mind? Forget that live isn't that secure like everybody wants to believe? 
Depersonalisation shows you that you are nothing. Just one little wheel in the clockwork of life. That you have nothing to expect and that everything just happens without "your" will.
That there arent even individuals and that you just separating one thing what cant be separated. Life.

I mean... where is free will if I cant even choose between real life and that insanity? So free will is limited to certain things? So which things? Can anybody tell me that? No.(nobody yet, but maybe YOU!) Cause there is no free will, no fucking options and no "would" or "could".
We are just a bunch of atoms or energy or whatever the smallest part is. And not even that. That would be the same stupid seperation as the seperation of on thing in humans and tables and chairs and whatever. Humans have Intelligence if they happen but if a table breaks it just breaks without his intelligence and so without his free will.
I mean wtf... nothing makes sense... NOTHING! I'm confused.

No free will = no individuality = no state of minds or no real or not real = just being... eternal love and bliss 

Sorry for the WALL OF TEXT which probably nobody will ever read... but whatever.. :lol:


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## Claymore

edward_morden said:


> Whats the point of feeling slightly better but not cured?


uuuuuhhhhhhhh :| First, feeling ANY better is better than nothing.
Second, this isn't going to cure you on the first day. You will see good changes everyday but it will take a little while before you are completely back to normal.


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## Tommygunz

well, i am not going to try and respond to your whole post because, your probably still trying to catch your breath after that :lol: .
what i am getting at with sharing this treatment option is, I CAN FEEL AGAIN!!! i no longer feel dp/dr. where the grey area is, is in the fine tuning of my senses (keep in mind i am still early on in this treatment). it has been such a casual transition, no big, "HOLY SHIT I'M BACK", more like going to dinner with my girlfriend, and rather than being apprehensive and nervous and anxious about my dp getting worse due to the public environment and constricting location of a table surrounded by other people and the off lighting and the overwhelming ambient noise of people talking, dishes clanking and pans frying, i am calm, casual, comfortable and at peace with my place in that moment. i am no longer consumed with this feeling of not being there because, i feel there. when i talk to people, i feel the conversation, when i look at something, i feel my relationship with it, in time and space. in part, what dp takes away is the mental and physical stimulation of your senses, your ability to feel what you sense is gone, and without feeling, life becomes this dull, bland, grey existence (not to mention, the terror of this existence being your reality). to explain what i mean by my senses needing some fine tuning, while i now feel what i smell, taste, touch, see, and hear, it is not 100% yet. to explain further, one month ago i was at 0-1%, now i am 75-80%, and thats not a little better, THATS A SHIT LOAD BETTER. when i look back on how i felt through my five and a half month pit of dp, i am stunned, 1- that i felt that way, and 2- that i have come so far from there. i don't know what else to say, if that isn't reason enough to at least try, then i don't know what is.


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## backagain

Taking baby steps towards progressing the self is where it all starts.. I personally don't believe there is a one pill "cure"

I believe if DP/DR can go away through time and personal efforts towards striving to changing poor habits then we don't need any 1 pill cure. I think what Tommy Gunz has suggested is that this will aid in the giving people more leverage in achieving recovery.

Here are some stuff I want to add from my personal experience with dealing with dp/dr

When we are in the midst of mental chaos like dp/dr puts us in, our minds seek answers for a solution to that chaos. I think with dp/dr we are searching for a lot of answers or solutions that are outside the frame of the problem. What I noticed is a lot of us here had some previous history with a bundle of other disorders like anxiety, ocd , panic disorder, depression, A.D.D. etc. I myself have had all these problems and didn't get treatment for them. I didn't even know they had a name for them, I thought it was all normal and that I was just going through some changes. Marijuana and a panic attack was the final straw that broke the camel's back and brought on dp/dr. After that I was determined to find an answer to this hell I was experiencing day in and day out and what I realized today is that i was searching for answers outside of the problem. If the problems are inside then the answers should be inside. I began to realize after a few years living with dp and it's cycle of hell how all those disorders were all closely related to each other and beyond that I began to realize they were actually feeding off of each other. Anxiety would make me worry constantly, I would obsessively act on compulsions when I would get worried(a lot lot lot), A.D.D. wouldn't allow me to focus myself towards a particular goal thus leading me to failure, which lead to depression, depression lead to poor self concept, which lead to more anxiety and insecurity which lead to more compulsive behavior which then lead to self medicating with marijuana and then lead to a panic attack and then to dp etc.. Just a few examples. The whole time I was completely oblivious to this, mind you I was 14-16 at the time. The question then I asked was where did it come from ?? How did I get this ? Brain damage? Tumor? Schizophrenia ? laced weed ? All answers outside of myself because I couldn't rationalize what was going on.

Everything is and was in one way or another connected to the other. And it all had to start from somewhere and has to stop somewhere right ? What I got from all of this was a revelation that DP/DR was a state of mind that had a big message or meaning behind it. And that meaning could either make you or break you depending on how you seen it. So I halted my blind self destruction and opened my eyes to it's reality and purpose. That my minds response to all this was dp/dr, it's like a message in the form of a "disorder". It's not mean't to be pleasant, it's supposed to create a chaos within you so your mind can unscramble it's previous understanding and form new ones to repair itself. DP/DR is our own minds way of getting the message across to us not with words that are conditioned but from innate meanings to our existence. When our mind is putting us in these states of unreality, it's giving us it's own kind of incentive to change our lives starting at the source. YOU,ME, I watever labels we use to identify the being that controls us. The message to me is clear. "SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG INSIDE FIGURE it OUT". Every other disorder I had before dp/dr (anxiety, depression, add, ocd ) I guess the message wasn't made clear enough. . It could either make us or break us is the way I see it, there's no way around it, you can't begin to ignore it until you understand the way it works. That it's part of a revolving cycle inside us that feeds off of our anxiety, obsessive thoughts, compulsions, depression, panic and those same feelings continue to thrive off of DP/DR which makes us more anxious,depressed, obsessed and panicky. So when DP/DR induces anxiety, anxiety says "Everyone is looking and judging me right now" and you believe it because the thoughts and feelings are coming from within. What you don't realize is that you're projecting your own thoughts and feelings of yourself unto others due to a problem with self concept. And your self concept is affected by dp/dr and so on so forth. Can you see the cycle ? They are all connected with yourself and how you see yourself in relation to the world. If you can't find nothing true or real about you for yourself how do you expect to ever lead your own life on your own terms?

I think our minds are now at a point where they're *waiting* for an answer to the message _they_ sent us through DP/DR and we are searching for an answer through some sort of miracle cure or pill that doesn't even exist neglecting the very fundamental reasons why we were lead to dp/dr in the first place. To put it simply the answer in my rational mind should be the OPPOSITE of what DP/DR tells us. So when DP/DR induces thoughts like "I FEEL CRAZY" The message we should be sending back to our minds is "EVERYTHING IS OK" by identifying and stopping the cycle of illusions perpetuated by DP/DR and it's dependents (anxiety,panic,ocd,depression, A.D.D. etc) at their source. That's when I believe our dp/dr will dissipate when we consciously choose to lead our lives towards the path that we as living beings/not minds choose and using our minds as slaves rather than masters. We are not our minds, we are living beings that use our heads to rationalize. When our minds control us through dp/dr, anxiety, ocd, depression, a.d.d. we become slaves to this monster and whatever illusions it creates for us. Our true selves are live somewhere in our unconscious, where we are driven by something innate other than what is learned by the conscious. It is the innate. When we learn to tune into and listen to the innate inside of us we will begin our lives again. How we do that is up to us to decide for us as each one of us is different. We have to find out our issues by being more open and truthful with ourselves rather than ignoring what's real and living vicariously through dp/dr as if it were really us. We're going to live with ourselves til we die anyways so we might as well find our way through the lies before it's too late.

When we search to find truth we have to first make sense of what we see. I think a lot of people are actually brainwashed to believe certain ideas that are feed from the outside in. Ideas and conceptions about the world around them that can never hold any truth to us as we are programmed to understand things through direct subjective experience, rather than the objective experiences of the public. Like we relate to when we see things on television (the number 1 brainwashing device). Why do you think corporations pay millions of dollars to put their commercial advertisements on TV ? Because they know it works, people are going to mindlessly believe what they are told time and time again because they are oblivious to the system around them.

Life is a journey, we were given life to live it as *we* (innate selves) see fit NOT the way we are conditioned to live conforming to a society based around principles that have no meanings on the inside. Those who seek to control the masses, hide us all from the truth within ourselves. Once we realize the truth from within we aren't so easily influenced by falseness. You have to realize yourself as living to ever start living, if you see yourself as just an image inside your mind then you are not seeing yourself for who you really are and seeing an illusion instead. The mind, the eyes are ours, our life is ours, we can do whatever the fuck we want to do with our lives. We have to keep our eyes and our minds ours. Who controls your eyeballs ?


----------



## Tommygunz

This is what too much dopamine does-
Disorientation and/or confusion
Anxiety, severe paranoia, and/or panic attacks
Hypervigilance or increased sensitivity to perceptual stimuli, accompanied by significantly increased threat detection
Hypomania or full-blown mania
Derealization and/or depersonalization
Hallucinations and/or delusions
Thought disorder or disorganized thinking
Cognitive and memory impairment potentially to the point of retrograde or anterograde amnesia
Delirium and/or insanity
Myoclonus or involuntary and intense muscle twitching
Hyperreflexia or overresponsive/overreactive reflexes
Syncope or fainting or loss of consciousness
Seizures or convulsions
Neurotoxicity or brain damage
Coma and/or death

This is what too little serotonin does-
Depressed
Nervous/anxious
Worrier
Fears/phobias
Negative/pessimistic
Irritable/impatient/edgy
Obsessive compulsive tendency
Think about the same things over & over again
Self destructive, masochistic or suicidal thoughts/plans
Low self esteem/confidence
Anger/rage/explosive behavior/assaultive
Sleep problems/light sleeper
Crave sugar/carbohydrates/alcohol/marijuana
Use these substances to improve mood & relax
Feel worse in and dislike dark weather
Chronic pain (e.g. headaches, backaches, fibromyalgia)
PMS
Antidepressants or 5-HTP improve mood
Family history of depression/anxiety/OCD/eating disorders

the treatment that danny and i have been pushing like illegal drugs, safely, and naturally raises serotonin levels, which in turn regulates dopamine levels, thus correcting the imbalance, thus ending DP.  :shock:  (tears of joy)


----------



## Surfingisfun001

backagain said:


> Taking baby steps towards progressing the self is where it all starts.. I personally don't believe there is a one pill "cure"
> 
> I believe if DP/DR can go away through time and personal efforts towards striving to changing poor habits then we don't need any 1 pill cure. I think what Tommy Gunz has suggested is that this will aid in the giving people more leverage in achieving recovery.
> 
> Here are some stuff I want to add from my personal experience with dealing with dp/dr
> 
> When we are in the midst of mental chaos like dp/dr puts us in, our minds seek answers for a solution to that chaos. I think with dp/dr we are searching for a lot of answers or solutions that are outside the frame of the problem. What I noticed is a lot of us here had some previous history with a bundle of other disorders like anxiety, ocd , panic disorder, depression, A.D.D. etc. I myself have had all these problems and didn't get treatment for them. I didn't even know they had a name for them, I thought it was all normal and that I was just going through some changes. Marijuana and a panic attack was the final straw that broke the camel's back and brought on dp/dr. After that I was determined to find an answer to this hell I was experiencing day in and day out and what I realized today is that i was searching for answers outside of the problem. If the problems are inside then the answers should be inside. I began to realize after a few years living with dp and it's cycle of hell how all those disorders were all closely related to each other and beyond that I began to realize they were actually feeding off of each other. Anxiety would make me worry constantly, I would obsessively act on compulsions when I would get worried(a lot lot lot), A.D.D. wouldn't allow me to focus myself towards a particular goal thus leading me to failure, which lead to depression, depression lead to poor self concept, which lead to more anxiety and insecurity which lead to more compulsive behavior which then lead to self medicating with marijuana and then lead to a panic attack and then to dp etc.. Just a few examples. The whole time I was completely oblivious to this, mind you I was 14-16 at the time. The question then I asked was where did it come from ?? How did I get this ? Brain damage? Tumor? Schizophrenia ? laced weed ? All answers outside of myself because I couldn't rationalize what was going on.
> 
> Everything is and was in one way or another connected to the other. And it all had to start from somewhere and has to stop somewhere right ? What I got from all of this was a revelation that DP/DR was a state of mind that had a big message or meaning behind it. And that meaning could either make you or break you depending on how you seen it. So I halted my blind self destruction and opened my eyes to it's reality and purpose. That my minds response to all this was dp/dr, it's like a message in the form of a "disorder". It's not mean't to be pleasant, it's supposed to create a chaos within you so your mind can unscramble it's previous understanding and form new ones to repair itself. DP/DR is our own minds way of getting the message across to us not with words that are conditioned but from innate meanings to our existence. When our mind is putting us in these states of unreality, it's giving us it's own kind of incentive to change our lives starting at the source. YOU,ME, I watever labels we use to identify the being that controls us. The message to me is clear. "SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG INSIDE FIGURE it OUT". Every other disorder I had before dp/dr (anxiety, depression, add, ocd ) I guess the message wasn't made clear enough. . It could either make us or break us is the way I see it, there's no way around it, you can't begin to ignore it until you understand the way it works. That it's part of a revolving cycle inside us that feeds off of our anxiety, obsessive thoughts, compulsions, depression, panic and those same feelings continue to thrive off of DP/DR which makes us more anxious,depressed, obsessed and panicky. So when DP/DR induces anxiety, anxiety says "Everyone is looking and judging me right now" and you believe it because the thoughts and feelings are coming from within. What you don't realize is that you're projecting your own thoughts and feelings of yourself unto others due to a problem with self concept. And your self concept is affected by dp/dr and so on so forth. Can you see the cycle ? They are all connected with yourself and how you see yourself in relation to the world. If you can't find nothing true or real about you for yourself how do you expect to ever lead your own life on your own terms?
> 
> I think our minds are now at a point where they're *waiting* for an answer to the message _they_ sent us through DP/DR and we are searching for an answer through some sort of miracle cure or pill that doesn't even exist neglecting the very fundamental reasons why we were lead to dp/dr in the first place. To put it simply the answer in my rational mind should be the OPPOSITE of what DP/DR tells us. So when DP/DR induces thoughts like "I FEEL CRAZY" The message we should be sending back to our minds is "EVERYTHING IS OK" by identifying and stopping the cycle of illusions perpetuated by DP/DR and it's dependents (anxiety,panic,ocd,depression, A.D.D. etc) at their source. That's when I believe our dp/dr will dissipate when we consciously choose to lead our lives towards the path that we as living beings/not minds choose and using our minds as slaves rather than masters. We are not our minds, we are living beings that use our heads to rationalize. When our minds control us through dp/dr, anxiety, ocd, depression, a.d.d. we become slaves to this monster and whatever illusions it creates for us. Our true selves are live somewhere in our unconscious, where we are driven by something innate other than what is learned by the conscious. It is the innate. When we learn to tune into and listen to the innate inside of us we will begin our lives again. How we do that is up to us to decide for us as each one of us is different. We have to find out our issues by being more open and truthful with ourselves rather than ignoring what's real and living vicariously through dp/dr as if it were really us. We're going to live with ourselves til we die anyways so we might as well find our way through the lies before it's too late.
> 
> When we search to find truth we have to first make sense of what we see. I think a lot of people are actually brainwashed to believe certain ideas that are feed from the outside in. Ideas and conceptions about the world around them that can never hold any truth to us as we are programmed to understand things through direct subjective experience, rather than the objective experiences of the public. Like we relate to when we see things on television (the number 1 brainwashing device). Why do you think corporations pay millions of dollars to put their commercial advertisements on TV ? Because they know it works, people are going to mindlessly believe what they are told time and time again because they are oblivious to the system around them.
> 
> Life is a journey, we were given life to live it as *we* (innate selves) see fit NOT the way we are conditioned to live conforming to a society based around principles that have no meanings on the inside. Those who seek to control the masses, hide us all from the truth within ourselves. Once we realize the truth from within we aren't so easily influenced by falseness. You have to realize yourself as living to ever start living, if you see yourself as just an image inside your mind then you are not seeing yourself for who you really are and seeing an illusion instead. The mind, the eyes are ours, our life is ours, we can do whatever the flower* we want to do with our lives. We have to keep our eyes and our minds ours. Who controls your eyeballs ?


This is the best thing I have read in a long long time. Thank you for posting this. It rings true within.


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> Taking baby steps towards progressing the self is where it all starts.. I personally don't believe there is a one pill "cure"
> 
> I believe if DP/DR can go away through time and personal efforts towards striving to changing poor habits then we don't need any 1 pill cure. I think what Tommy Gunz has suggested is that this will aid in the giving people more leverage in achieving recovery.
> 
> Here are some stuff I want to add from my personal experience with dealing with dp/dr
> 
> When we are in the midst of mental chaos like dp/dr puts us in, our minds seek answers for a solution to that chaos. I think with dp/dr we are searching for a lot of answers or solutions that are outside the frame of the problem. What I noticed is a lot of us here had some previous history with a bundle of other disorders like anxiety, ocd , panic disorder, depression, A.D.D. etc. I myself have had all these problems and didn't get treatment for them. I didn't even know they had a name for them, I thought it was all normal and that I was just going through some changes. Marijuana and a panic attack was the final straw that broke the camel's back and brought on dp/dr. After that I was determined to find an answer to this hell I was experiencing day in and day out and what I realized today is that i was searching for answers outside of the problem. If the problems are inside then the answers should be inside. I began to realize after a few years living with dp and it's cycle of hell how all those disorders were all closely related to each other and beyond that I began to realize they were actually feeding off of each other. Anxiety would make me worry constantly, I would obsessively act on compulsions when I would get worried(a lot lot lot), A.D.D. wouldn't allow me to focus myself towards a particular goal thus leading me to failure, which lead to depression, depression lead to poor self concept, which lead to more anxiety and insecurity which lead to more compulsive behavior which then lead to self medicating with marijuana and then lead to a panic attack and then to dp etc.. Just a few examples. The whole time I was completely oblivious to this, mind you I was 14-16 at the time. The question then I asked was where did it come from ?? How did I get this ? Brain damage? Tumor? Schizophrenia ? laced weed ? All answers outside of myself because I couldn't rationalize what was going on.
> 
> Everything is and was in one way or another connected to the other. And it all had to start from somewhere and has to stop somewhere right ? What I got from all of this was a revelation that DP/DR was a state of mind that had a big message or meaning behind it. And that meaning could either make you or break you depending on how you seen it. So I halted my blind self destruction and opened my eyes to it's reality and purpose. That my minds response to all this was dp/dr, it's like a message in the form of a "disorder". It's not mean't to be pleasant, it's supposed to create a chaos within you so your mind can unscramble it's previous understanding and form new ones to repair itself. DP/DR is our own minds way of getting the message across to us not with words that are conditioned but from innate meanings to our existence. When our mind is putting us in these states of unreality, it's giving us it's own kind of incentive to change our lives starting at the source. YOU,ME, I watever labels we use to identify the being that controls us. The message to me is clear. "SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY WRONG INSIDE FIGURE it OUT". Every other disorder I had before dp/dr (anxiety, depression, add, ocd ) I guess the message wasn't made clear enough. . It could either make us or break us is the way I see it, there's no way around it, you can't begin to ignore it until you understand the way it works. That it's part of a revolving cycle inside us that feeds off of our anxiety, obsessive thoughts, compulsions, depression, panic and those same feelings continue to thrive off of DP/DR which makes us more anxious,depressed, obsessed and panicky. So when DP/DR induces anxiety, anxiety says "Everyone is looking and judging me right now" and you believe it because the thoughts and feelings are coming from within. What you don't realize is that you're projecting your own thoughts and feelings of yourself unto others due to a problem with self concept. And your self concept is affected by dp/dr and so on so forth. Can you see the cycle ? They are all connected with yourself and how you see yourself in relation to the world. If you can't find nothing true or real about you for yourself how do you expect to ever lead your own life on your own terms?
> 
> I think our minds are now at a point where they're *waiting* for an answer to the message _they_ sent us through DP/DR and we are searching for an answer through some sort of miracle cure or pill that doesn't even exist neglecting the very fundamental reasons why we were lead to dp/dr in the first place. To put it simply the answer in my rational mind should be the OPPOSITE of what DP/DR tells us. So when DP/DR induces thoughts like "I FEEL CRAZY" The message we should be sending back to our minds is "EVERYTHING IS OK" by identifying and stopping the cycle of illusions perpetuated by DP/DR and it's dependents (anxiety,panic,ocd,depression, A.D.D. etc) at their source. That's when I believe our dp/dr will dissipate when we consciously choose to lead our lives towards the path that we as living beings/not minds choose and using our minds as slaves rather than masters. We are not our minds, we are living beings that use our heads to rationalize. When our minds control us through dp/dr, anxiety, ocd, depression, a.d.d. we become slaves to this monster and whatever illusions it creates for us. Our true selves are live somewhere in our unconscious, where we are driven by something innate other than what is learned by the conscious. It is the innate. When we learn to tune into and listen to the innate inside of us we will begin our lives again. How we do that is up to us to decide for us as each one of us is different. We have to find out our issues by being more open and truthful with ourselves rather than ignoring what's real and living vicariously through dp/dr as if it were really us. We're going to live with ourselves til we die anyways so we might as well find our way through the lies before it's too late.
> 
> When we search to find truth we have to first make sense of what we see. I think a lot of people are actually brainwashed to believe certain ideas that are feed from the outside in. Ideas and conceptions about the world around them that can never hold any truth to us as we are programmed to understand things through direct subjective experience, rather than the objective experiences of the public. Like we relate to when we see things on television (the number 1 brainwashing device). Why do you think corporations pay millions of dollars to put their commercial advertisements on TV ? Because they know it works, people are going to mindlessly believe what they are told time and time again because they are oblivious to the system around them.
> 
> Life is a journey, we were given life to live it as *we* (innate selves) see fit NOT the way we are conditioned to live conforming to a society based around principles that have no meanings on the inside. Those who seek to control the masses, hide us all from the truth within ourselves. Once we realize the truth from within we aren't so easily influenced by falseness. You have to realize yourself as living to ever start living, if you see yourself as just an image inside your mind then you are not seeing yourself for who you really are and seeing an illusion instead. The mind, the eyes are ours, our life is ours, we can do whatever the flower* we want to do with our lives. We have to keep our eyes and our minds ours. Who controls your eyeballs ?


So but who is me? I mean every thought I have is conditioned. Everything is connected and there is no supernatural me which creates "own" non connected thoughts and so a free will or individuality.
There is no way in choosing "my" actions. There are no options. How could there be?
What do you mean with "me" within? Like me without conditioning? Pure consciousness? 
Its confusing how you separate "my mind" and me etc. Do you think you are a supernatural entity without conditioning and so without connection to the rest of the life and are now able to manipulate transition laws (like laws of physics etc.) and create a free will? 
Besides how does the non conditioned "you" should be able to tell "your mind" to do stuff differently? That makes no sense to me.
Why should it even tell "your mind" to do stuff differently if the "real you within" is the real one and the mind isnt really you? 
Or.... how is a table different to me? we are both just a sum of atoms. Both sums of atoms are restricted to the laws of physics etc. and in both there is no soul or whatever with a individuality or free will. 
If "I" do something in reality atoms just happen. Its not an intelligence act or whatever cause if you would call it like that you would also have to say that like if a table breaks its a intelligence act of the table.

I really dont get it. What should be the "me" that should tell my thoughts and body to do something different? Why do the "me" even care if the "me" isnt the body and the thoughts and instead a supernatural indiviudal beyond that? How can the real "me" can even decide in that way it suits good in the conditioned world? I mean where does that "me" gets the knowledge from? Isnt all the "knowledge" always coming from conditioning?

Besides... if lets say there is a supernatural you behind all this illusion (I hope I understood you right) than how can you say that you own your eyes and your body although they are cleary 100% conditioned? I mean your real "you" cant say.... lets fly or explode my hand? (I mean without a plane or bomb) no? Yes cause every atom works the way it has to.
Who controls my eye balls? My conditioning! or not "my" conditioning... its conditioning. Just everything happens like it has to do so how can there be a I that wants or could change anything?

I mean. The problem is that I clearly dont know anymore what should be me or you are whatever. Everything seems so senseless separated. Why is for example the air separated from the me? like why can I have intelligence or individuality if I am clearly the same as the chair but the chair hasnt nothing of that. 
I mean if the chair moves or breaks it just happens but if I move or break I do sth  with my own free will within my individuality. That makes no sense to me.
How do I even know how to separate different things? Where are the transitions between these single individuals and what are the like?
This whole believe around individuality, free will, options, death seems so "esoteric" and ridiculous to me 

SO with these supplyments I dont have so much fear anymore? So all the thoughts based around the fears disappear? That sounds so strange. I mean Im clearly not just my thoughts but if I havent sth what is persistent and under my control than how can "I" be? Isnt that personality altering if you take away all these thoughts? I mean in context with the believe of a indiviudality? What is left and why can these supernatural me dont control these "bad" thoughts.

Why is there a "me" and a "not me"? Why is the "me" able to think its the "not me" and forget about the "me" what it really is?

I think I completely misunderstood everything what you said and everything everybody is saying cause for me all these believes... like everything what surrounds me makes no sense.
Absolutely non.

Is this therapy to late for me? Am I already completely crazy?

I mean there is this believe we have a "own" body and for example "own hands" but if I compare this hand to the bottle next to me I can't tell the difference. Both are made out of atoms and work according to the laws of physics. I can't control the bottle neither I can control "my" hand.

So wtf... how should it be better if I have less anxiety? Does that rly make any difference? All these believes make no sense also without anxiety, dont they? 
Or will I just stop thinking and be in completely bliss without judgement of all?

IS this longing for a state without fear not like a small child which wanna have a new toy? After you got the toy sth different will be missing and in reality there will be nothing added.
I mean.. even if I'm in totally panic, think i gonna dissolve, my thoughts seem to be evil devils and have some mild halluzinations I really feel the same like always. I mean if all this judgment etc stops for some seconds.

Sry for asking all this stuff but I really wanna try this thing out but I dont know what to expect or why to do that and everything 
Kinda afraid everything could become even more senseless... if thats even possible :shock:


----------



## edward_morden

sry 2posts


----------



## backagain

edward_morden said:


> So but who is me? I mean every thought I have is conditioned. Everything is connected and there is no supernatural me which creates "own" non connected thoughts and so a free will or individuality.


I feel silly telling you this but you weren't born on this planet with a set of conditioned beliefs, you were born a human being given the choice of free will. You aren't a name, you aren't an age, you aren't a job title. You weren't born edward_morden, you were born a human being. You wear all those things around with you like clothes to establish an identity within your cultural system. They are all learned things



edward_morden said:


> There is no way in choosing "my" actions. There are no options. How could there be?
> What do you mean with "me" within? Like me without conditioning? Pure consciousness?


Do you not make your own choices in your everyday life? Ask yourself where those choices come from. Who is controlling your eyeballs right now ? You ? or what you see around you ?



edward_morden said:


> Its confusing how you separate "my mind" and me etc. Do you think you are a supernatural entity without conditioning and so without connection to the rest of the life and are now able to manipulate transition laws (like laws of physics etc.) and create a free will?


We are on the surface just images of man. Beyond that image is an awareness or consciousness existing from moment to moment. That awareness is the essence of being allowing us to define ourselves as who we are from 1 moment to the next. If you see yourself as someone who's sense of self rests on the judgements and perceptions of others then your sense of self becomes defined by others. If you see yourself as someone who's being lies in some distant future you are ignoring the very essence of our existence. Right this moment in the presence of now.



edward_morden said:


> Besides how does the non conditioned "you" should be able to tell "your mind" to do stuff differently? That makes no sense to me.
> Why should it even tell "your mind" to do stuff differently if the "real you within" is the real one and the mind isnt really you?


Once more you equate the state of being to the conceptions of a confined language deciphering mind. When your existence depends on thought all your faith rests solely on words and their individual meanings rather than your own subjective direct experience. For example our reality as a society is syntactical in it's nature. Meaning the world is made up of words as opposed to what it is in actuality. We should take language words numbers symbols around you and from you at face value rather than real worth. When you know all the words you could do with this world as you please.



edward_morden said:


> Or.... how is a table different to me? we are both just a sum of atoms. Both sums of atoms are restricted to the laws of physics etc. and in both there is no soul or whatever with a individuality or free will.
> If "I" do something in reality atoms just happen. Its not an intelligence act or whatever cause if you would call it like that you would also have to say that like if a table breaks its a intelligence act of the table.


Ask yourself what is a table ? then try to contemplate the meaning of this quote "We see things not as they are, but as we are"

What that tells me is because you see yourself as just a sum of atoms you see the world around you in the same way. That the same reason you cannot see the soul in yourself is the same reason you cannot see the soul in me. You cannot see anything for what it is unless you search beyond your own understanding of it. You're neglecting to see things as they are because your ideas of the world and relationships around it are only understood through words. The difference between a table and you is that you created that table with your mind by defining it with your intelligence. If you had no way of defining it, it would exist as it truly is. Full of wonder open to new meanings and new ways of seeing it. When you close the doors to your mind you close the doors of perceiving new meanings that shape the world from within.



edward_morden said:


> I really dont get it. What should be the "me" that should tell my thoughts and body to do something different? Why do the "me" even care if the "me" isnt the body and the thoughts and instead a supernatural indiviudal beyond that? How can the real "me" can even decide in that way it suits good in the conditioned world? I mean where does that "me" gets the knowledge from? Isnt all the "knowledge" always coming from conditioning?


Knowledge comes from the outside seeking truth from the wisdom that comes from the inside and wisdom comes from the inside seeking truth to the knowledge of the outside. To and from, objective and subjective. It is only our individual truths that decide the truths of others, if our individual truths are empty on the inside, then the knowledge from the outside becomes an unstoppable force. Shaping our views and perceptions of the world around us which eventually lead us to make judgements and decisions that come from the outside objectively rather than what we know on the inside subjectively.

That is all for now my brain and I are tired.


----------



## edward_morden

Thanks for the reply.

But my question is how can there be more than single individual(=free will and choices) in this world. Where is the free will if there are two individuals. That makes no sense.
If I for example am Individual A and you are Individual B and I wanna from you to get the milk for me and you dont do that. Than its your free will to not do it but my free wont work anymore cause of yours and so I wont get the milk.

I mean.. I agree on the point that everything is only this moment and nothing more but I dont get this whole "I" and "You" Concept of Separation.

Who controls my eyeballs? Like I said. My conditioning (Dna, social etc.) If I hear something what I learned is a dangerous sound I turn or look at it or if I see something beautiful I exam it a long time. There is no choice or no I wanna look at that and that. If there would be this choice great paintings etc. (the composition of it) couldnt work cause the artist wouldnt guide your eyes where they should go. Storytelling would be impossible and everything would look confusing and my body would be very desperate cause it wouldnt know where to look at.

Composition works always. If you see a lot details together in rather empy area you will focus on the spot with the details. If complementary colors are next to each other and create so a high contrast you will go with the eyes to this spot if the rest of the sight isnt using the same trick. You will follow arcs and tangents and looking out for the brightest (in a dark sight) or the darkest (in a bright sight) spot. You will look at the red spot of the sight if its the only red which appears in the sight and for example everything else is green.
etc. there are so many things like that. All in all you will always look out for the highest contrast first. Your eyes always work like that! ALWAYS!

The same with smells, sounds, etc. You roll on a trail and there is no way you can "choose" a different part. Mainly because there is nobody to choose I guess?
Or how can I see my true self and my soul? and if Im not seeing it yet who cant see it? Who is the thing which is searching for this true self or soul with free will? If I have a true soul and self why do I have to look for it to find it although I am it?
That makes no sense.

If my true self has free will why do it choose to think this what I think right now? Why should it be desparated and confused? How can it even be confused and desparated if it has a free will?



backagain said:


> I feel silly telling you this but you weren't born on this planet with a set of conditioned beliefs, you were born a human being given the choice of free will. You aren't a name, you aren't an age, you aren't a job title. You weren't born edward_morden, you were born a human being. You wear all those things around with you like clothes to establish an identity within your cultural system. They are all learned things


But even your written sentence is conditioned. You experienced and learned certain things and now you are believing this writing stuff and so composed these paragraph.
"You", your words whatever could never say the "truth" you are talking about cause every word is 100% conditioned. Every word or idea you know had first been learned or created out of mixture of other learned stuff.

I know that cause since I have depersonalisation I remember the origin of every idea action or word I ever have do or use. All this written stuff are created out of certain meditation experiences, books, discussions etc. There is nothing what originated in "me".

Besides I dont rly believe a table is a table and a sum of atoms and Im a human and a sum of atoms. No I think all this makes no sense and has to be an illusion or something like that.
Just randomly separated things which are in reality one thing. Life. Or something like that.

I mean to cure the depersonalisation all these thoughts had to be killed first to feel normal and real again. For me its not just the anxiety or this feeling unreal. Its my whole perception of life and that everything seems completely wrong and illusionary. Every step and and movement or idea or written/said stuff is like determinated and unreal.
Its like if I write something down I see myself picking all these things out of my memories and composing these words with it. And there is no way to choose how to assemble them.

Sry for all these offtopic but yes. Im confused.  Could you all plz post your experiences with these supplements in this forum so I can keep track of them. thx.


----------



## jaynon

edward_morden said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> But my question is how can there be more than single individual(=free will and choices) in this world. Where is the free will if there are two individuals. That makes no sense.
> If I for example am Individual A and you are Individual B and I wanna from you to get the milk for me and you dont do that. Than its your free will to not do it but my free wont work anymore cause of yours and so I wont get the milk.
> 
> I mean.. I agree on the point that everything is only this moment and nothing more but I dont get this whole "I" and "You" Concept of Separation.
> 
> Who controls my eyeballs? Like I said. My conditioning (Dna, social etc.) If I hear something what I learned is a dangerous sound I turn or look at it or if I see something beautiful I exam it a long time. There is no choice or no I wanna look at that and that. If there would be this choice great paintings etc. (the composition of it) couldnt work cause the artist wouldnt guide your eyes where they should go. Storytelling would be impossible and everything would look confusing and my body would be very desperate cause it wouldnt know where to look at.
> 
> Composition works always. If you see a lot details together in rather empy area you will focus on the spot with the details. If complementary colors are next to each other and create so a high contrast you will go with the eyes to this spot if the rest of the sight isnt using the same trick. You will follow arcs and tangents and looking out for the brightest (in a dark sight) or the darkest (in a bright sight) spot. You will look at the red spot of the sight if its the only red which appears in the sight and for example everything else is green.
> etc. there are so many things like that. All in all you will always look out for the highest contrast first. Your eyes always work like that! ALWAYS!
> 
> The same with smells, sounds, etc. You roll on a trail and there is no way you can "choose" a different part. Mainly because there is nobody to choose I guess?
> Or how can I see my true self and my soul? and if Im not seeing it yet who cant see it? Who is the thing which is searching for this true self or soul with free will? If I have a true soul and self why do I have to look for it to find it although I am it?
> That makes no sense.
> 
> If my true self has free will why do it choose to think this what I think right now? Why should it be desparated and confused? How can it even be confused and desparated if it has a free will?
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel silly telling you this but you weren't born on this planet with a set of conditioned beliefs, you were born a human being given the choice of free will. You aren't a name, you aren't an age, you aren't a job title. You weren't born edward_morden, you were born a human being. You wear all those things around with you like clothes to establish an identity within your cultural system. They are all learned things
> 
> 
> 
> But even your written sentence is conditioned. You experienced and learned certain things and now you are believing this writing stuff and so composed these paragraph.
> "You", your words whatever could never say the "truth" you are talking about cause every word is 100% conditioned. Every word or idea you know had first been learned or created out of mixture of other learned stuff.
> 
> I know that cause since I have depersonalisation I remember the origin of every idea action or word I ever have do or use. All this written stuff are created out of certain meditation experiences, books, discussions etc. There is nothing what originated in "me".
> 
> Besides I dont rly believe a table is a table and a sum of atoms and Im a human and a sum of atoms. No I think all this makes no sense and has to be an illusion or something like that.
> Just randomly separated things which are in reality one thing. Life. Or something like that.
> 
> I mean to cure the depersonalisation all these thoughts had to be killed first to feel normal and real again. For me its not just the anxiety or this feeling unreal. Its my whole perception of life and that everything seems completely wrong and illusionary. Every step and and movement or idea or written/said stuff is like determinated and unreal.
> Its like if I write something down I see myself picking all these things out of my memories and composing these words with it. And there is no way to choose how to assemble them.
> 
> Sry for all these offtopic but yes. Im confused.  Could you all plz post your experiences with these supplements in this forum so I can keep track of them. thx.
Click to expand...

from the way you are feeling, i can tell you have depersonalization but also derealization. everything feels 'automated', like you have no control over your destiny and that you are a robot just going through the motions of everyday life. i was in your same position about 7 months ago. your brain is telling you everything is automated and unreal, when in reality..the world is continuing in the same way it always has. dp/dr changes YOUR perception of the world, not the worlds perception of you.


----------



## Guest

jaynon said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> But my question is how can there be more than single individual(=free will and choices) in this world. Where is the free will if there are two individuals. That makes no sense.
> If I for example am Individual A and you are Individual B and I wanna from you to get the milk for me and you dont do that. Than its your free will to not do it but my free wont work anymore cause of yours and so I wont get the milk.
> 
> I mean.. I agree on the point that everything is only this moment and nothing more but I dont get this whole "I" and "You" Concept of Separation.
> 
> Who controls my eyeballs? Like I said. My conditioning (Dna, social etc.) If I hear something what I learned is a dangerous sound I turn or look at it or if I see something beautiful I exam it a long time. There is no choice or no I wanna look at that and that. If there would be this choice great paintings etc. (the composition of it) couldnt work cause the artist wouldnt guide your eyes where they should go. Storytelling would be impossible and everything would look confusing and my body would be very desperate cause it wouldnt know where to look at.
> 
> Composition works always. If you see a lot details together in rather empy area you will focus on the spot with the details. If complementary colors are next to each other and create so a high contrast you will go with the eyes to this spot if the rest of the sight isnt using the same trick. You will follow arcs and tangents and looking out for the brightest (in a dark sight) or the darkest (in a bright sight) spot. You will look at the red spot of the sight if its the only red which appears in the sight and for example everything else is green.
> etc. there are so many things like that. All in all you will always look out for the highest contrast first. Your eyes always work like that! ALWAYS!
> 
> The same with smells, sounds, etc. You roll on a trail and there is no way you can "choose" a different part. Mainly because there is nobody to choose I guess?
> Or how can I see my true self and my soul? and if Im not seeing it yet who cant see it? Who is the thing which is searching for this true self or soul with free will? If I have a true soul and self why do I have to look for it to find it although I am it?
> That makes no sense.
> 
> If my true self has free will why do it choose to think this what I think right now? Why should it be desparated and confused? How can it even be confused and desparated if it has a free will?
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel silly telling you this but you weren't born on this planet with a set of conditioned beliefs, you were born a human being given the choice of free will. You aren't a name, you aren't an age, you aren't a job title. You weren't born edward_morden, you were born a human being. You wear all those things around with you like clothes to establish an identity within your cultural system. They are all learned things
> 
> 
> 
> But even your written sentence is conditioned. You experienced and learned certain things and now you are believing this writing stuff and so composed these paragraph.
> "You", your words whatever could never say the "truth" you are talking about cause every word is 100% conditioned. Every word or idea you know had first been learned or created out of mixture of other learned stuff.
> 
> I know that cause since I have depersonalisation I remember the origin of every idea action or word I ever have do or use. All this written stuff are created out of certain meditation experiences, books, discussions etc. There is nothing what originated in "me".
> 
> Besides I dont rly believe a table is a table and a sum of atoms and Im a human and a sum of atoms. No I think all this makes no sense and has to be an illusion or something like that.
> Just randomly separated things which are in reality one thing. Life. Or something like that.
> 
> I mean to cure the depersonalisation all these thoughts had to be killed first to feel normal and real again. For me its not just the anxiety or this feeling unreal. Its my whole perception of life and that everything seems completely wrong and illusionary. Every step and and movement or idea or written/said stuff is like determinated and unreal.
> Its like if I write something down I see myself picking all these things out of my memories and composing these words with it. And there is no way to choose how to assemble them.
> 
> Sry for all these offtopic but yes. Im confused.  Could you all plz post your experiences with these supplements in this forum so I can keep track of them. thx.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> from the way you are feeling, i can tell you have depersonalization but also derealization. everything feels 'automated', like you have no control over your destiny and that you are a robot just going through the motions of everyday life. i was in your same position about 7 months ago. your brain is telling you everything is automated and unreal, when in reality..the world is continuing in the same way it always has. dp/dr changes YOUR perception of the world, not the worlds perception of you.
Click to expand...

I agree. I had all these thoughts and more when I was really bad. Now they just seem ridiculous - you could spend all your time trying to find the answers but, if they don't exist then you never will, you will just make yourself miserable. Think 'would my quality of life be improved if I knew the answer to this, does it actually matter in the grand scheme of things'..........the answer is generally no. Your mind is searching for a way out of the DP, reasons for it and reasons for everything and reasons for those reasons. The trick is to let it ramble on and not pay much attention - thus giving your mind the chance to rest, which will take a fair while. There's no point going round in circles scaring yourself and adding more fear/stress to the equation. It takes a while to sink in and lots of practise but it does get easier, the daily 'battle' (not active but just learning to take it all with a pinch of salt) eases and you eventually is just background noise. I still find myself latching on to the thoughts sometimes and indulging them but am much quicker to recognise when I do this and get on with something else.


----------



## Guest

Claymore said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can these supplements do any harm or is it totally safe to try them out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That I can tell you. Its completely safe. :wink:
Click to expand...




Claymore said:


> jaynon said:
> 
> 
> 
> right now i am taking 300mg 5HTP and 3 capsules of cod liver oil daily, with these two alone i have noticed a great change in my dp/dr and depression. now, do you think there would be any problem if i added choline,inositol and the sublingual B- to my current supplements?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I highly dought that they would do anything but help you MUCH further!!!!!  I don't think there will be any problems, but my friend Tommy will be on here later after he does his daily stuff. You can ask him.
Click to expand...

Not being funny but you don't know this for sure, and it is extremely dangerous to tell people there are no negative effects of something unless you have done extensive sampling/testing over a long time period.
Be careful about bigging this up too much before you know 100% what the result/outcome is, at the very least if it turns out not to be an answer (-I hope it is, but I do find it hard to believe that the IoP at Kings, or Mt Sinai would not have explored this avenue already, especially as dopamine and its effects are nothing new what with parkinson's etc) there will be a lot of disappointed peeps out there.
And NEVER give medical advice about contraindications unless you are a medical professional.

Not trying to pee on anyone's bonfire, just use a bit of a common sense/judgment 

I would be interested in hearing more about your background/experience, tommygunz and also seeing some of your sources if you wouldn't mind? I would also be interested in seeing your response from the DP unit?


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

Phasedout24 said:


> Be *careful about bigging this up too much before you know 100% what the result/outcome is*, at the very least if it turns out not to be an answer (-*I hope it is*, but I do find it hard to believe that the IoP at Kings, or Mt Sinai *would not have explored this avenue already*, especially as dopamine and its effects are nothing new what with parkinson's etc) there will be a lot of disappointed peeps out there.
> And NEVER give medical advice about contraindications unless you are a medical professional.
> 
> Not trying to pee on anyone's bonfire, just use a bit of a common sense/judgment


[/quote][/quote]

yeh i know hope is good an all , i mean i hope this is the miracle cure we all need, but i think we need to prepared for a let down or something, i cant believe someone wouldnt have already studied this, i mean there are scientists out there,doing these type of tests everyday, as there jobs.
i hope its something they have missed, and you have actually found something great.

but i think plastering it around the forum, and it being bragged abotu as the miracle cure, and people becoming very attached to the idea, claymore especially, i hope its a cure, for his sake  lol

in theory pretty much all he said is correct,lookign through some webpages, but something just thinks its too good to be true, and im a skeptical mo fo, and im hanging off of this, until i see some direct results, and outcomes, whether good or bad, and maybe some safety advice regarding taking aditional vitamins ddoes to you.( can having too much vitamins be bad for you????)


----------



## Claymore

OH MY GOD YOU GUYS!!!!!!!! :roll: Nobody EVER called this a "Miracle Cure". Tommy has researched this for a looooong time, he has posted time and time again what he has found out and why these things are helping, actually in THIS thread at least once. This is no "Cure Pill", this treats the symptoms of DP directly and overtime causes this to fade. That is why everyone on THIS forum who has tried it so far is getting better. NONE of them are seeing "No Change" or are "Getting Worse". I've already looked in THE book of supplements and vitamins at a doctors appointment for the flu to see if it was safe to take these supplements, instead of telling me, she went and got THE book herself and told me to look them up for myself, I did, I looked up all three. I looked up what they are used for which matched everything Tommy has written, and I looked to see if there were any negative side affects for any of them. This was a new book and it said (for all three) that there were NO negative reports as of now that suggest any negative side affects while you are on OR off any prescribtion medications. I don't get it, it would seem that if something arose that could potentially "help" this go away (which it is for many people on here) , AND was all natural, I'D JUMP ALL OVER IT JUST TO TRY. If you try it and it dosen't work, you've lost nothing but a 20 dollar bill (or whatever currency you use), if you try it and it does work which is most likely with everything Tommy has shared with me (on the phone, not over this site), you'll be one of the happiest people on planet earth. So with ALL this research Tommy has put out showing that these thing will most likely help all of you, what is stopping you from AT LEAST trying them for yourself? Obviously something in you brain is screwed up or else you wouldn't be feeling like this so there has to be something to reverse the process and this has made the MOST sense out of anything else so far because Tommy has researched this extensively and EVERY SINGLE bit of it makes so much sense its not even funny. But whatever, don't at least try it and try to ignore your DP, that seems to work so far huh? Even though it has no science at all behind it. :roll:


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Claymore said:


> OH MY GOD YOU GUYS!!!!!!!! :roll: Nobody EVER called this a "Miracle Cure". Tommy has researched this for a looooong time, he has posted time and time again what he has found out and why these things are helping, actually in THIS thread at least once. This is no "Cure Pill", this treats the symptoms of DP directly and overtime causes this to fade. That is why everyone on THIS forum who has tried it so far is getting better. NONE of them are seeing "No Change" or are "Getting Worse". I've already looked in THE book of supplements and vitamins at a doctors appointment for the flu to see if it was safe to take these supplements, instead of telling me, she went and got THE book herself and told me to look them up for myself, I did, I looked up all three. I looked up what they are used for which matched everything Tommy has written, and I looked to see if there were any negative side affects for any of them. This was a new book and it said (for all three) that there were NO negative reports as of now that suggest any negative side affects while you are on OR off any prescribtion medications. I don't get it, it would seem that if something arose that could potentially "help" this go away (which it is for many people on here) , AND was all natural, I'D JUMP ALL OVER IT JUST TO TRY. If you try it and it dosen't work, you've lost nothing but a 20 dollar bill (or whatever currency you use), if you try it and it does work which is most likely with everything Tommy has shared with me (on the phone, not over this site), you'll be one of the happiest people on planet earth. So with ALL this research Tommy has put out showing that these thing will most likely help all of you, what is stopping you from AT LEAST trying them for yourself? Obviously something in you brain is screwed up or else you wouldn't be feeling like this so there has to be something to reverse the process and this has made the MOST sense out of anything else so far because Tommy has researched this extensively and EVERY SINGLE bit of it makes so much sense its not even funny. But whatever, don't at least try it and try to ignore your DP, that seems to work so far huh? Even though it has no science at all behind it. :roll:


blah man, just let tommy post his ideas and research. did he hire you to be his personal bitch?

I'm interested in hearing follow ups from ThoughtOnFire, dragonhat, Russo, and anyone else who has tried these supps.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Claymore does he give you free supps if you suck his dick?


----------



## jaynon

surfingisfun001 said:


> Claymore does he give you free supps if you suck his dick?


whats your problem dude? hes trying to help people out and youre being a douchebag by saying shit like that
if you dont have anything positive to say then shut your trap


----------



## edward_morden

Besides.. if doctors etc say sth it isnt always true. For example antidepressiva isnt that safe like every doctor is saying. I heard even from some people that it is very dangerous as all other medications which are often prescribed (Benzodiazepine etc.)



surfingisfun001 said:


> AND was all natural,


Like ganja/weed? Like magic mushrooms?  All natural doesn't mean safe or good. :mrgreen:

If these Supplements change your Dopamine and Seretonin they are indeed very dangerous if used not the right way etc. Besides the book didnt state how people with depersonalisation react on it? did it? :mrgreen:

You can also say.. normally ganja is good and makes you chilled, but for a few people like me with depersonalisation its not good. Its very bad and I get very very paranoid.
Even caffeine makes me paranoid. I think it is understandable that for example I am very carefully what medication supplements whatever I eat and that I first wanna know what it is and what EXACTLY it is supposed to do and what I am supposed to experience.

Also Dopamine and Serotonin is like the first thing what you think of for psychic problems so I highly doubt nobody looked at this before.

Could maybe everybody who tries it write a small diary where he writes down like every week (or better day) exactly what he took and how much etc. What he felt etc.
Would be nice and better than just saying.. yah Im almost cured and in reality.... just take some of these supps..


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

jaynon said:


> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Claymore does he give you free supps if you suck his dick?
> 
> 
> 
> whats your problem dude? hes trying to help people out and youre being a douchebag by saying shit like that
> if you dont have anything positive to say then shut your trap
Click to expand...

where im from
in the right context which it is probably meant hence the smily, its pretty funny.

like , a kind of busting on one of your mates for liking someone too much too fast.

youd go 
'' haha you heavy love her and youve just met her like five seconds ago, haha hes in love''

obviously works better when its something more quirkier and less lame.. such as,..



> Claymore does he give you free supps if you suck his dick?


----------



## Surfingisfun001

jaynon said:


> whats your problem dude? hes trying to help people out and youre being a douchebag by saying shit like that
> if you dont have anything positive to say then shut your trap


Claymore hasn't even tried it. He has been spamming and telling a whole community of desperate individuals suffering with severe diverse mental issues that we will all get cured from something he 1) has no idea what he is talking about and 2) hasn't even tried.


----------



## Claymore

.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

edward_morden said:


> Besides.. if doctors etc say sth it isnt always true. For example antidepressiva isnt that safe like every doctor is saying. I heard even from some people that it is very dangerous as all other medications which are often prescribed (Benzodiazepine etc.)
> 
> 
> 
> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> AND was all natural,
> 
> 
> 
> Like ganja/weed? Like magic mushrooms?  All natural doesn't mean safe or good. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

... not quite sure where you got that quote from and what your point is.


----------



## edward_morden

C'mon. Lets be all nice to each other 
There is no point in hatred Claymore. You just have to understand that this isnt a joke and some people could believe you and finally get disappointed.

@surfingisfun001: OMG sry... I quoted the quote in your post. Not you said that.It was Claymore.
Claymore said... yes and its ALL NATURAL... so whats the deal.

My point is

All natural doesnt mean good or safe 

cause

weed, mushrooms etc are also all natural  like so much bad stuff is all natural and besides all natural is not better than synthetic stuff.
If you have a synthetic medication you know exactly what is in it but for all these all natural stuff its not the case. I dont even know if these supplements are all natural I just wanted to say that all natural doesnt mean good or safe. So please,claymore, stop with that argument.



Claymore said:


> I don't get it, it would seem that if something arose that could potentially "help" this go away (which it is for many people on here) , AND was all natural, I'D JUMP ALL OVER IT JUST TO TRY.


From a different topic but the same argument



Claymore said:


> its not all one pill, its a few different "NATURAL" pills and a liquid.


----------



## simplynothing

surfingisfun001 said:


> Claymore does he give you free supps if you suck his dick?


Woah! Way off base!


----------



## Claymore

edward_morden said:


> weed, mushrooms etc are also all natural  So please,claymore, stop with that argument.


weed and mushrooms are "illegal" substances for a reason even though they are natural. These that Tommy has found are sold in vitamin stores and are completely legal, because........................they are safe to take and people take them as dietary supplements all the time.


----------



## Claymore

.


----------



## Claymore

Congradulations Russo, you have the most popular thread on the forum right now.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Claymore said:


> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Claymore does he give you free supps if you suck his dick?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna ask you again, WHATS YOUR FLOWER* PROBLEM?!!!! I'm sick of this kinda shit you pussy little bastard!!!!!!! I'd like to kick you're bitch ass soooo bad!!!!!!! I haven't said a word to you and you give me this kinda shit?!!!!!!! :| FLOWER* YOU KENNY!!!!!!!!! I'm done trying to be your friend. This is it.
Click to expand...

AHHHHHH COME ON MAN TAKE A JOKE!!!!! :lol: :wink: :lol: :lol: :wink: :wink: :lol: :wink: :lol: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: 


surfingisfun001 said:


> did he hire you to be his personal bitch?





Claymore said:


> I'm on here trying to help people by telling them what Tommy (a REAL friend) has been telling me. What the flower* are you doing?!!!!! huh? Got an awnser Kenny?!!!! I'd really like to hear it.  You ain't GOT SHIT!!!!!! The only thing you care about is yourself. I'm SO done being nice to you. I forgive you, but i'm done with this shit. You do this all the time and i'm sick of it. Don't quote me, don't post to me, DON'T SPEAK TO ME AGAIN. You are not a friend, you are a user, and I see that now. :!:


I have a great idea, lets settle this right now. Add me to your foe list and I will add you to mine. That way you never have to hear from me ever again and I never have to hear from you ever again. This should make us both happy. Good luck on your journey.


----------



## edward_morden

Claymore said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> weed, mushrooms etc are also all natural  So please,claymore, stop with that argument.
> 
> 
> 
> weed and mushrooms are "illegal" substances for a reason even though they are natural. These that Tommy has found are sold in vitamin stores and are completely legal, because........................they are safe to take and people take them as dietary supplements all the time.
Click to expand...

So how can these ridiculous supplements which do nearly nothing to your body (cause then its safe) be helpful with depersonalisation?



> Wikipedia: The most often available choline dietary supplement is lecithin,..


Haha I remember I always used lecithin to dissolve my weed so I can cook with it and digest it 
Thats weird 

Yes the weed and mushroom example wasnt the best one but at least where mushrooms still legal one year ago in my country 
I guess it just reminded me of all people who say.. yeah just weed and mushrooms and no acid or xtc cause these are syntetics and not ALL NATURAL!
But... all natural is still no argument  
Salvia divinorum is all natural and legal but very very dangerous and bad


----------



## Surfingisfun001

edward_morden said:


> @surfingisfun001: OMG sry... I quoted the quote in your post. Not you said that.It was Claymore.
> Claymore said... yes and its ALL NATURAL... so whats the deal.


Oh I see, makes more sense now


----------



## Claymore

.


----------



## Claymore

edward_morden said:


> So how can these ridiculous supplements which do nearly nothing to your body (cause then its safe) be helpful with depersonalisation?


Just don't try them then. Then you have nothing to worry about.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

claymore said:


> I don't care what kind of idea you have  . I said don't speak to me again.


Well Daniel that's just too bad then ain't it, because I can say whatever I want.  What cha gunna do about it????  :wink: :wink: :wink:


----------



## edward_morden

thx claymore... if sb. wants to know sth in detail (like more than "it gonna work.... YAHHHH...") you are immediatly unsocial.

Im just careful and frightened. okay?

but..I gonna try this supps out.. I just hope I dont get even more insane or die or whatever  ... could tommy post plz what supplements he exactly took(brand name) and how much etc. 
Would be awesome.


----------



## EverDream

There's so much aggression in here.


----------



## Claymore

edward_morden said:


> thx claymore... if sb. wants to know sth in detail (like more than "it gonna work.... YAHHHH...") you are immediatly unsocial.
> 
> Im just careful and frightened. okay?
> 
> but..I gonna try this supps out.. I just hope I dont get even more insane or die or whatever  ... could tommy post plz what supplements he exactly took(brand name) and how much etc.
> Would be awesome.


He gets off work in 3 and a half more hours. I'm sure he'll be glad to tell you. :wink:


----------



## Claymore

.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Claymore said:


> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> claymore said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care what kind of idea you have  . I said don't speak to me again.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Daniel that's just too bad then ain't it, because I can say whatever I want.  What cha gunna do about it????  :wink: :wink: :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Say whatever you want, just don't say it to me.
Click to expand...

You missed the point. I am going to say what I think is right to you - because you piss me off and get on my nerves as you do many other people.


----------



## Claymore

.


----------



## backagain

edward_morden said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> But my question is how can there be more than single individual(=free will and choices) in this world. Where is the free will if there are two individuals. That makes no sense.
> If I for example am Individual A and you are Individual B and I wanna from you to get the milk for me and you dont do that. Than its your free will to not do it but my free wont work anymore cause of yours and so I wont get the milk.
> 
> I mean.. I agree on the point that everything is only this moment and nothing more but I dont get this whole "I" and "You" Concept of Separation.
> 
> Who controls my eyeballs? Like I said. My conditioning (Dna, social etc.) If I hear something what I learned is a dangerous sound I turn or look at it or if I see something beautiful I exam it a long time. There is no choice or no I wanna look at that and that. If there would be this choice great paintings etc. (the composition of it) couldnt work cause the artist wouldnt guide your eyes where they should go. Storytelling would be impossible and everything would look confusing and my body would be very desperate cause it wouldnt know where to look at.
> 
> Composition works always. If you see a lot details together in rather empy area you will focus on the spot with the details. If complementary colors are next to each other and create so a high contrast you will go with the eyes to this spot if the rest of the sight isnt using the same trick. You will follow arcs and tangents and looking out for the brightest (in a dark sight) or the darkest (in a bright sight) spot. You will look at the red spot of the sight if its the only red which appears in the sight and for example everything else is green.
> etc. there are so many things like that. All in all you will always look out for the highest contrast first. Your eyes always work like that! ALWAYS!
> 
> The same with smells, sounds, etc. You roll on a trail and there is no way you can "choose" a different part. Mainly because there is nobody to choose I guess?
> Or how can I see my true self and my soul? and if Im not seeing it yet who cant see it? Who is the thing which is searching for this true self or soul with free will? If I have a true soul and self why do I have to look for it to find it although I am it?
> That makes no sense.
> 
> If my true self has free will why do it choose to think this what I think right now? Why should it be desparated and confused? How can it even be confused and desparated if it has a free will?
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel silly telling you this but you weren't born on this planet with a set of conditioned beliefs, you were born a human being given the choice of free will. You aren't a name, you aren't an age, you aren't a job title. You weren't born edward_morden, you were born a human being. You wear all those things around with you like clothes to establish an identity within your cultural system. They are all learned things
> 
> 
> 
> But even your written sentence is conditioned. You experienced and learned certain things and now you are believing this writing stuff and so composed these paragraph.
> "You", your words whatever could never say the "truth" you are talking about cause every word is 100% conditioned. Every word or idea you know had first been learned or created out of mixture of other learned stuff.
> 
> I know that cause since I have depersonalisation I remember the origin of every idea action or word I ever have do or use. All this written stuff are created out of certain meditation experiences, books, discussions etc. There is nothing what originated in "me".
> 
> Besides I dont rly believe a table is a table and a sum of atoms and Im a human and a sum of atoms. No I think all this makes no sense and has to be an illusion or something like that.
> Just randomly separated things which are in reality one thing. Life. Or something like that.
> 
> I mean to cure the depersonalisation all these thoughts had to be killed first to feel normal and real again. For me its not just the anxiety or this feeling unreal. Its my whole perception of life and that everything seems completely wrong and illusionary. Every step and and movement or idea or written/said stuff is like determinated and unreal.
> Its like if I write something down I see myself picking all these things out of my memories and composing these words with it. And there is no way to choose how to assemble them.
> 
> Sry for all these offtopic but yes. Im confused.  Could you all plz post your experiences with these supplements in this forum so I can keep track of them. thx.
Click to expand...

You seem to be going off on an obsessive tagent of existential thought confusing yourself even more instead of sticking to what's in front of your eyes.

Just start realizing things in front of you and stop questioning existence as a whole best advice i could ever give you. If you can't make sense of yourself then don't go trying to make sense of everything around you because you're only going to confuse yourself even more.


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

ok this is quite petty you guys.
clay if you want to be mature about this, go to your user control panel and go to freinds and foes, add him to foes, will ighnore his posts.

or

just dont let something so small get to you, its a quick off the cuff joke/comment/insult,(Ragrdless of what it is, you shouldnt allow things to bother you, or allow you to get uptight.



> Manage foes
> 
> Foes are users which will be ignored by default. Posts by these users will not be fully visible. Personal messages from foes are still permitted. Please note that you cannot ignore moderators or administrators.
> 
> Your foes:
> To remove usernames select them and click submit.
> No foes currently defined


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Claymore said:


> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the point. I am going to say what I think is right to you - because you piss me off and get on my nerves as you do many other people.
> 
> 
> 
> No you missed the point  . Speak to me again and i'm going to Revsarah.
Click to expand...

 :shock: oh no oh no!... someone who has already been banned from this website and come back with a different username is going to the authorities! Who do you think you are? I can speak to you if I wish. You have been insensible and ignorant which has caused me to be an asshole to you... if you haven't already figured that out. Does this make everything my fault? No. I can see where I went bad, the problem is I don't think you can... so as I see it, I will continue to speak to you if I see need be. If you are willing to work these things out in a different thread, I am up for trying that. If not I suggest adding me to your foe list.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Apologies to the community for making such a ruckus.


----------



## Claymore

surfingisfun001 said:


> Claymore said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> surfingisfun001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You missed the point. I am going to say what I think is right to you - because you piss me off and get on my nerves as you do many other people.
> 
> 
> 
> No you missed the point  . Speak to me again and i'm going to Revsarah.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :shock: oh no oh no!... someone who has already been banned from this website and come back with a different username is going to the authorities! Who do you think you are? I can speak to you if I wish. You have been insensible and ignorant which has caused me to be an asshole to you... if you haven't already figured that out. Does this make everything my fault? No. I can see where I went bad, the problem is I don't think you can... so as I see it, I will continue to speak to you if I see need be. If you are willing to work these things out in a different thread, I am up for trying that. If not I suggest adding me to your foe list.
Click to expand...

I'm not adding you to my foes list because I don't want foes. I'll just delete my mean posts to you and you delete yours and we'll just forget about this. How about that?,this is tiring. :|


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> But my question is how can there be more than single individual(=free will and choices) in this world. Where is the free will if there are two individuals. That makes no sense.
> If I for example am Individual A and you are Individual B and I wanna from you to get the milk for me and you dont do that. Than its your free will to not do it but my free wont work anymore cause of yours and so I wont get the milk.
> 
> I mean.. I agree on the point that everything is only this moment and nothing more but I dont get this whole "I" and "You" Concept of Separation.
> 
> Who controls my eyeballs? Like I said. My conditioning (Dna, social etc.) If I hear something what I learned is a dangerous sound I turn or look at it or if I see something beautiful I exam it a long time. There is no choice or no I wanna look at that and that. If there would be this choice great paintings etc. (the composition of it) couldnt work cause the artist wouldnt guide your eyes where they should go. Storytelling would be impossible and everything would look confusing and my body would be very desperate cause it wouldnt know where to look at.
> 
> Composition works always. If you see a lot details together in rather empy area you will focus on the spot with the details. If complementary colors are next to each other and create so a high contrast you will go with the eyes to this spot if the rest of the sight isnt using the same trick. You will follow arcs and tangents and looking out for the brightest (in a dark sight) or the darkest (in a bright sight) spot. You will look at the red spot of the sight if its the only red which appears in the sight and for example everything else is green.
> etc. there are so many things like that. All in all you will always look out for the highest contrast first. Your eyes always work like that! ALWAYS!
> 
> The same with smells, sounds, etc. You roll on a trail and there is no way you can "choose" a different part. Mainly because there is nobody to choose I guess?
> Or how can I see my true self and my soul? and if Im not seeing it yet who cant see it? Who is the thing which is searching for this true self or soul with free will? If I have a true soul and self why do I have to look for it to find it although I am it?
> That makes no sense.
> 
> If my true self has free will why do it choose to think this what I think right now? Why should it be desparated and confused? How can it even be confused and desparated if it has a free will?
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel silly telling you this but you weren't born on this planet with a set of conditioned beliefs, you were born a human being given the choice of free will. You aren't a name, you aren't an age, you aren't a job title. You weren't born edward_morden, you were born a human being. You wear all those things around with you like clothes to establish an identity within your cultural system. They are all learned things
> 
> 
> 
> But even your written sentence is conditioned. You experienced and learned certain things and now you are believing this writing stuff and so composed these paragraph.
> "You", your words whatever could never say the "truth" you are talking about cause every word is 100% conditioned. Every word or idea you know had first been learned or created out of mixture of other learned stuff.
> 
> I know that cause since I have depersonalisation I remember the origin of every idea action or word I ever have do or use. All this written stuff are created out of certain meditation experiences, books, discussions etc. There is nothing what originated in "me".
> 
> Besides I dont rly believe a table is a table and a sum of atoms and Im a human and a sum of atoms. No I think all this makes no sense and has to be an illusion or something like that.
> Just randomly separated things which are in reality one thing. Life. Or something like that.
> 
> I mean to cure the depersonalisation all these thoughts had to be killed first to feel normal and real again. For me its not just the anxiety or this feeling unreal. Its my whole perception of life and that everything seems completely wrong and illusionary. Every step and and movement or idea or written/said stuff is like determinated and unreal.
> Its like if I write something down I see myself picking all these things out of my memories and composing these words with it. And there is no way to choose how to assemble them.
> 
> Sry for all these offtopic but yes. Im confused.  Could you all plz post your experiences with these supplements in this forum so I can keep track of them. thx.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seem to be going off on an obsessive tagent of existential thought confusing yourself even more instead of sticking to what's in front of your eyes.
> 
> Just start realizing things in front of you and stop questioning existence as a whole best advice i could ever give you. If you can't make sense of yourself then don't go trying to make sense of everything around you because you're only going to confuse yourself even more.
Click to expand...

But the problem is. Who do I confuse? What is yourself? Everything is determinated AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Everything! EVERYTHING!!! I dont exist and it doesnt bother me that much. I think its okay that im not real or whatever. That im not an individual and I dont have free will.
I dont understand the need of separating everything and everyone.
For me its the best possible view to see everything totally connected. All in one. PURE LOVE! No need of senseless separation between mine individuality and the chair or you or who or whatever.
Life is 

I mean I wanna feel sane and good. That all is right. Im not like.. screw you.. you are wrong, go away, my philosophy is right whatever.

But all the logic says that Im right. Laws of physics say that Im right. My meditation experiences tell me Im right.

All what Im saying is just conditioned and determinated. There is no one who is choosing and no one who gets confused.

What should I do? Am i delusioned? I dont know... if I say insane stuff just tell me that cause I nobody does I will never find out. Everybody ignores my ideas and what Im saying. Sometimes say just "yes yes you are right" but it seems like the just wanna do em a favor.

How can I stop thinking if there is nobody who can choose? I mean you tell me... jaja dont confuse yourself... but what can I do? Who is yourself etc. 

Im just wanna be in the bliss forever.


----------



## Surfingisfun001

Claymore said:


> I'm not adding you to my foes list because I don't want foes. I'll just delete my mean posts to you and you delete yours and we'll just forget about this. How about that?,this is tiring. :|


If you don't want to add me to your foe list that is your choice. I am considering adding you to mine. Deleting posts will not resolve anything. If you wish to speak further about this start a new thread.


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

edward_morden said:


> But the problem is. Who do I confuse? What is yourself? Everything is determinated AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> Everything! EVERYTHING!!! I dont exist and it doesnt bother me that much. I think its okay that im not real or whatever. That im not an individual and I dont have free will.
> I dont understand the need of separating everything and everyone.
> For me its the best possible view to see everything totally connected. All in one. PURE LOVE! No need of senseless separation between mine individuality and the chair or you or who or whatever.
> Life is
> 
> I mean I wanna feel sane and good. That all is right. Im not like.. screw you.. you are wrong, go away, my philosophy is right whatever.
> 
> But all the logic says that Im right. Laws of physics say that Im right. My meditation experiences tell me Im right.
> 
> All what Im saying is just conditioned and determinated. There is no one who is choosing and no one who gets confused.
> 
> What should I do? Am i delusioned? I dont know... if I say insane stuff just tell me that cause I nobody does I will never find out. Everybody ignores my ideas and what Im saying. Sometimes say just "yes yes you are right" but it seems like the just wanna do em a favor.
> 
> How can I stop thinking if there is nobody who can choose? I mean you tell me... jaja dont confuse yourself... but what can I do? Who is yourself etc.
> 
> Im just wanna be in the bliss forever.


what you were saying about looking at the contrast..
what about if you knew the contrast was about to appear in front of you in the next 5 seconds, and when it does appear, you tell YOURSELf your going to look at the bottom left corner where it is green, and not look at the small red square in the centre....you could do it.
is that free will.
probably something to do with instinct that will automatically look out for you, checking for threats eve if we dont know it.

you are confusing yourself with the mindframe youve adapted to look on the world.
yes everything is made up of atoms, they are the building blocks of everything soo far, they join together and make incredible things.
things like a piece of sand, to a droplet of water, to a human being made up of cells and complex systems, they even make up the stars and the Sun.
but there is large difference between every example there, if you cant see it, your denying common logic.

when your confusing yourself...
it really means your not thinking straight in this case. if your saying everything is predetermined, lets go back to when nothing was predetermined.....back before language was invented, back when we were just animals, i bet you wouldnt be looking at the world as atoms back then.
if you mentioned atom, youd have got a club over the head.

being real, just means being.
your typing posts, i see them, your real, your able to interact, its not like your a chair and have to ''sit'' in the one place all your life, you have options, you can do what you want to a high degree.

who do you confuse?....by asking that, you are indeed confusing yourself further.

you are you, mind and body, when you confuse yourself, you have confused your mind, when you think of whether to eat a packet of biscuits, and a packet of crisps(the thought process is you working your mind), whatever you decide to eat (that choice was made by you)
if however you felt as though you had no preference to either one, then the person who had no preference to them, is you.

its easy to get stuck in your thinking ways, ive been down there, but for some reason now, i no longer think of things in that way, space doesnt even seem that scary of an idea anymore, i mean...wtf is infinity....how can something go oooon forever...*BAFFFFLED* lol

youll see sense soon man, it is a bit of a delusional take on life, i mean ultimately your correct in your thinking, but really things arent as simple as that, small differences in cells and atoms/molecules, make remarkable differences on the greater scale. oxygen 02, fire 2 hydrogen atoms onto that, and we just changed it from a gas into a liquid.


----------



## backagain

NumbNeo said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the problem is. Who do I confuse? What is yourself? Everything is determinated AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> Everything! EVERYTHING!!! I dont exist and it doesnt bother me that much. I think its okay that im not real or whatever. That im not an individual and I dont have free will.
> I dont understand the need of separating everything and everyone.
> For me its the best possible view to see everything totally connected. All in one. PURE LOVE! No need of senseless separation between mine individuality and the chair or you or who or whatever.
> Life is
> 
> I mean I wanna feel sane and good. That all is right. Im not like.. screw you.. you are wrong, go away, my philosophy is right whatever.
> 
> But all the logic says that Im right. Laws of physics say that Im right. My meditation experiences tell me Im right.
> 
> All what Im saying is just conditioned and determinated. There is no one who is choosing and no one who gets confused.
> 
> What should I do? Am i delusioned? I dont know... if I say insane stuff just tell me that cause I nobody does I will never find out. Everybody ignores my ideas and what Im saying. Sometimes say just "yes yes you are right" but it seems like the just wanna do em a favor.
> 
> How can I stop thinking if there is nobody who can choose? I mean you tell me... jaja dont confuse yourself... but what can I do? Who is yourself etc.
> 
> Im just wanna be in the bliss forever.
> 
> 
> 
> what you were saying about looking at the contrast..
> what about if you knew the contrast was about to appear in front of you in the next 5 seconds, and when it does appear, you tell YOURSELf your going to look at the bottom left corner where it is green, and not look at the small red square in the centre....you could do it.
> is that free will.
> probably something to do with instinct that will automatically look out for you, checking for threats eve if we dont know it.
> 
> you are confusing yourself with the mindframe youve adapted to look on the world.
> yes everything is made up of atoms, they are the building blocks of everything soo far, they join together and make incredible things.
> things like a piece of sand, to a droplet of water, to a human being made up of cells and complex systems, they even make up the stars and the Sun.
> but there is large difference between every example there, if you cant see it, your denying common logic.
> 
> when your confusing yourself...
> it really means your not thinking straight in this case. if your saying everything is predetermined, lets go back to when nothing was predetermined.....back before language was invented, back when we were just animals, i bet you wouldnt be looking at the world as atoms back then.
> if you mentioned atom, youd have got a club over the head.
> 
> being real, just means being.
> your typing posts, i see them, your real, your able to interact, its not like your a chair and have to ''sit'' in the one place all your life, you have options, you can do what you want to a high degree.
> 
> who do you confuse?....by asking that, you are indeed confusing yourself further.
> 
> you are you, mind and body, when you confuse yourself, you have confused your mind, when you think of whether to eat a packet of biscuits, and a packet of crisps(the thought process is you working your mind), whatever you decide to eat (that choice was made by you)
> if however you felt as though you had no preference to either one, then the person who had no preference to them, is you.
> 
> its easy to get stuck in your thinking ways, ive been down there, but for some reason now, i no longer think of things in that way, space doesnt even seem that scary of an idea anymore, i mean...wtf is infinity....how can something go oooon forever...*BAFFFFLED* lol
> 
> youll see sense soon man, it is a bit of a delusional take on life, i mean ultimately your correct in your thinking, but really things arent as simple as that, small differences in cells and atoms/molecules, make remarkable differences on the greater scale. oxygen 02, fire 2 hydrogen atoms onto that, and we just changed it from a gas into a liquid.
Click to expand...

I agree 100 percent.

I also believe that all those thoughts are some sort of defensive reaction to an internal conflict relating to the self and it's existence to the world around it. There has to be some sort of unresolved conflict inside of his unconscious that is fueling these conscious obsessive thoughts and empowering his dp/dr. Some sort of internal fear driving him to search for answers through obsessive ruminations of everything around him and not inside him. I can relate because that's what I used to do because I had no other way of expressing myself without feeling like there would be a consequence (Abused as a child physically and psychologically) So I would suppress or repress my emotions because that is all I knew when I would get beat up by my dad or harrassed by my dad. They remained unsolved throughout my life existing in my unconscious mind and emerging to my conscious mind in certain situations.

Even now there is an abused angry young child inside of me. It carried on with me because of the impact of the emotional trauma I experienced. It makes me not want to socialize with people, distrustful and constantly alienated from myself. But I'm now trying to change all of that! I know i can get over it if I want to, if I just let go of the attachments and deal with it on a rational intelligent level. Either that or i'm gonna end up killing someone lol


----------



## Tommygunz

JESUS F UCKING H CHRIST!!! i go to work and this is what i come home to!?! :lol: well, looks like you guys have had a productive day. ok look, way too much shit has gone on here today to try and reply to anyone's post, i am working on finalizing everything and putting all information together, links, quotes, what to do, how to do it, why to do it, blah blah blah. but please understand i am f ucking exhausted from all of this, it has been 4-10 hours a day, for 3 weeks of new leads and new questions and ever elusive answers. but everything is finally coming together. give me a little more time to fine tune everything, especially the treatment (if your already doing it, don't be alarmed, what we are doing is good, but i think we can make it better). i know everyone wants answers, i will offer everything i can. when everything is ready, i will explain it all in explicit detail. i need to finish up, fine tune and have enough time to put all this into one great big explanation. every answer i have, i will give soon, it was never my intention to instigate all of this controversy, only to put everyone on standby and to let them know something big is coming, especially in light of the increase in suicidal post lately, last thing i wanted to see was someone f uckin killing them self right before uncovering all of this information. so i ask, please, be peaceful and patient. :wink:

p.s. ease up on dannie, the reason he is so excited is because we have been talking on the phone a lot and he has gotten a "play by play" of all new developments as they arise. so, if anything be hopeful, was it not too long ago that everyone was keeping him at arm's length because of his negativity in some of his posts, now look, his hope has been restored based on all that we have uncovered regarding this theory. trust me, he was apprehensive, but dammit, once i was able to explain where everything was going in full, he saw exactly what i saw. unfortunately, posting everything is a little more complicated than explaining it over the phone. so, to offer a little peace of mind, my sources are credible and my information is accurate, at this point i want to be certain i am not missing anything, i want to account for every variable i can think of, so i apologize for the wait, but all of this will be in vein if i miss something. so far its looking good though.


----------



## Guest

People might find this link interesting

http://www.mcmanweb.com/neurotransmitters.html

I'm pondering starting on a Glutamine supplement. It's only relatively recently been acknowledged that it may alter mood (as Glutamate after formation)


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> NumbNeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the problem is. Who do I confuse? What is yourself? Everything is determinated AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> Everything! EVERYTHING!!! I dont exist and it doesnt bother me that much. I think its okay that im not real or whatever. That im not an individual and I dont have free will.
> I dont understand the need of separating everything and everyone.
> For me its the best possible view to see everything totally connected. All in one. PURE LOVE! No need of senseless separation between mine individuality and the chair or you or who or whatever.
> Life is
> 
> I mean I wanna feel sane and good. That all is right. Im not like.. screw you.. you are wrong, go away, my philosophy is right whatever.
> 
> But all the logic says that Im right. Laws of physics say that Im right. My meditation experiences tell me Im right.
> 
> All what Im saying is just conditioned and determinated. There is no one who is choosing and no one who gets confused.
> 
> What should I do? Am i delusioned? I dont know... if I say insane stuff just tell me that cause I nobody does I will never find out. Everybody ignores my ideas and what Im saying. Sometimes say just "yes yes you are right" but it seems like the just wanna do em a favor.
> 
> How can I stop thinking if there is nobody who can choose? I mean you tell me... jaja dont confuse yourself... but what can I do? Who is yourself etc.
> 
> Im just wanna be in the bliss forever.
> 
> 
> 
> what you were saying about looking at the contrast..
> what about if you knew the contrast was about to appear in front of you in the next 5 seconds, and when it does appear, you tell YOURSELf your going to look at the bottom left corner where it is green, and not look at the small red square in the centre....you could do it.
> is that free will.
> probably something to do with instinct that will automatically look out for you, checking for threats eve if we dont know it.
> 
> you are confusing yourself with the mindframe youve adapted to look on the world.
> yes everything is made up of atoms, they are the building blocks of everything soo far, they join together and make incredible things.
> things like a piece of sand, to a droplet of water, to a human being made up of cells and complex systems, they even make up the stars and the Sun.
> but there is large difference between every example there, if you cant see it, your denying common logic.
> 
> when your confusing yourself...
> it really means your not thinking straight in this case. if your saying everything is predetermined, lets go back to when nothing was predetermined.....back before language was invented, back when we were just animals, i bet you wouldnt be looking at the world as atoms back then.
> if you mentioned atom, youd have got a club over the head.
> 
> being real, just means being.
> your typing posts, i see them, your real, your able to interact, its not like your a chair and have to ''sit'' in the one place all your life, you have options, you can do what you want to a high degree.
> 
> who do you confuse?....by asking that, you are indeed confusing yourself further.
> 
> you are you, mind and body, when you confuse yourself, you have confused your mind, when you think of whether to eat a packet of biscuits, and a packet of crisps(the thought process is you working your mind), whatever you decide to eat (that choice was made by you)
> if however you felt as though you had no preference to either one, then the person who had no preference to them, is you.
> 
> its easy to get stuck in your thinking ways, ive been down there, but for some reason now, i no longer think of things in that way, space doesnt even seem that scary of an idea anymore, i mean...wtf is infinity....how can something go oooon forever...*BAFFFFLED* lol
> 
> youll see sense soon man, it is a bit of a delusional take on life, i mean ultimately your correct in your thinking, but really things arent as simple as that, small differences in cells and atoms/molecules, make remarkable differences on the greater scale. oxygen 02, fire 2 hydrogen atoms onto that, and we just changed it from a gas into a liquid.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree 100 percent.
> 
> I also believe that all those thoughts are some sort of defensive reaction to an internal conflict relating to the self and it's existence to the world around it. There has to be some sort of unresolved conflict inside of his unconscious that is fueling these conscious obsessive thoughts and empowering his dp/dr. Some sort of internal fear driving him to search for answers through obsessive ruminations of everything around him and not inside him. I can relate because that's what I used to do because I had no other way of expressing myself without feeling like there would be a consequence (Abused as a child physically and psychologically) So I would suppress or repress my emotions because that is all I knew when I would get beat up by my dad or harrassed by my dad. They remained unsolved throughout my life existing in my unconscious mind and emerging to my conscious mind in certain situations.
> 
> Even now there is an abused angry young child inside of me. It carried on with me because of the impact of the emotional trauma I experienced. It makes me not want to socialize with people, distrustful and constantly alienated from myself. But I'm now trying to change all of that! I know i can get over it if I want to, if I just let go of the attachments and deal with it on a rational intelligent level. Either that or i'm gonna end up killing someone lol
Click to expand...

But how can "I" be if there is no free will'? And there is 100% no free will! Im not stupid. I can see the logic. Everything is completely connected and dependent from each other... or better said... the same. Everything is action reaction.
Look at the transistion laws.. every atom or object or everything what perceive only reacts the way it has TO. Free will or options or decisions would mean that there would be one object what could shape and edit the laws of physics. And like I already said. If there is free will only one could have it cause if 2 people would have it it wouldnt work anymore!
A wants B to sit down on the chair but B doesnt want so B destroys the free will for A. If I wanna fly I cant cause of gravity.
And the most important thing is... everything what my thoughts are.. and so all I "could" wish for.. all seemingly options are conditioned.
All these images and voices in your mind are just from the past. They come from your experiences there. 
So free will IS 100% nonexistent. A nonconditioned human cant exist cause everything is conditioned. When he is born he is made out of the food and body from his mother. He is structured like the dna from his ancestors tells him to be.
There is no free will. All these options and decisions are just crazy mind illusions. 
So lets say there is free will, just for this example, why can you think about so many things unconscious and then suddenly from nowhere this "unconsciousness" shots to you options, to voices which are to complicated for the unconscious or what? I mean I have no possibility to choose what next word or sentence or idea will arise. It always just happen.
I mean why do I sometimes get this illusion of a decision by the appearance of two voices or more. Cant that happen unconsciously? I hate my thoughts and I dont wanna them to arise.
If there would be free will, why can I only choose between these 3-4 options which just happen and cant be chosen by me. Thats not free will.
Besides all of these 3-4 options are what I experienced in the past (+dna etc.)... so where is "MYYYYYYYYYY" influence on them? All my options... all my free will is made by my conditioning... my environment, social conditioning, dna etc. 
That makes no sense. Why is it "MY" decision if the options where not "MINE". Cause all my thought is conditioned the decision is also not "MINE"... so I just happen.
So how can something be wrong or bad or good and right if everything just happen, happen with no further options.


backagain said:


> you are you, mind and body, when you confuse yourself, you have confused your mind, when you think of whether to eat a packet of biscuits, and a packet of crisps(the thought process is you working your mind), whatever you decide to eat (that choice was made by you)


No my predetermination tells me which I like more. My choice isnt made from a superficial me but from 100% conditioning. The already made experiences with these food products tell me which suits right now more and if I haven't eaten both before I will go for the look which has made me more grateful before.



NumbNeo said:


> if your saying everything is predetermined, lets go back to when nothing was predetermined.....back before language was invented, back when we were just animals, i bet you wouldnt be looking at the world as atoms back then.


But even animals know everything is predetermined. MY dog runs with me to the kitchen cause he knows there is food and so he uses the logical that there he could get food. 
If he has his soft toy almost somewhere fallen down he tries to "rescue" it cause he knows of gravitation and that it would fall down.
He doent drink terpentine if its standing somewhere on the floor before me using it cause he knows its bad for him and would kill him. He smells the odor and immediatly his brain calculate that he shouldnt drink that (it happens... nobody acts here.. like for humans)

Even stoneage people knew about it. If they wouldnt they wouldnt be able to survive cause the wouldnt understand that they need to eat to keep the body alive. Besides they wouldnt that they could kill each other or do anything.

Babies(me, everyone) cry cause they "know" that they will get attention. Without predetermination every organism would be lost and would have to be completely seperated from each other existences.

I feel like Im standing in front of a gigantic tree which is full of wonderful fruits but everybody tells me its wrong, an Illusion, compulsive useless thinking.

Common sense IS action-reaction. I dont get why nobody wants to understand that.
Only cause you would loose your individuality? Why do "you'" need one?

I dont get it. I guess if nobody understands me.. rly nobody... I have to be wrong but then I dont get why "I" am so sure. It makes so much sense and I dont understand what other people are talking. Everybody just says... yes you have free will .. its you... our decisions!! But that makes no sense. They never explain how this could be possible and just saying that like religious people just say... yeah there is a god... you just need to believe in him...

Everything seems so esoteric and wrong to me


----------



## Guest

edward_morden said:


> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NumbNeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree 100 percent.
> 
> I also believe that all those thoughts are some sort of defensive reaction to an internal conflict relating to the self and it's existence to the world around it. There has to be some sort of unresolved conflict inside of his unconscious that is fueling these conscious obsessive thoughts and empowering his dp/dr. Some sort of internal fear driving him to search for answers through obsessive ruminations of everything around him and not inside him. I can relate because that's what I used to do because I had no other way of expressing myself without feeling like there would be a consequence (Abused as a child physically and psychologically) So I would suppress or repress my emotions because that is all I knew when I would get beat up by my dad or harrassed by my dad. They remained unsolved throughout my life existing in my unconscious mind and emerging to my conscious mind in certain situations.
> 
> Even now there is an abused angry young child inside of me. It carried on with me because of the impact of the emotional trauma I experienced. It makes me not want to socialize with people, distrustful and constantly alienated from myself. But I'm now trying to change all of that! I know i can get over it if I want to, if I just let go of the attachments and deal with it on a rational intelligent level. Either that or i'm gonna end up killing someone lol
> 
> 
> 
> But how can "I" be if there is no free will'? And there is 100% no free will! Im not stupid. I can see the logic. Everything is completely connected and dependent from each other... or better said... the same. Everything is action reaction.
> Look at the transistion laws.. every atom or object or everything what perceive only reacts the way it has TO. Free will or options or decisions would mean that there would be one object what could shape and edit the laws of physics. And like I already said. If there is free will only one could have it cause if 2 people would have it it wouldnt work anymore!
> A wants B to sit down on the chair but B doesnt want so B destroys the free will for A. If I wanna fly I cant cause of gravity.
> And the most important thing is... everything what my thoughts are.. and so all I "could" wish for.. all seemingly options are conditioned.
> All these images and voices in your mind are just from the past. They come from your experiences there.
> So free will IS 100% nonexistent. A nonconditioned human cant exist cause everything is conditioned. When he is born he is made out of the food and body from his mother. He is structured like the dna from his ancestors tells him to be.
> There is no free will. All these options and decisions are just crazy mind illusions.
> So lets say there is free will, just for this example, why can you think about so many things unconscious and then suddenly from nowhere this "unconsciousness" shots to you options, to voices which are to complicated for the unconscious or what? I mean I have no possibility to choose what next word or sentence or idea will arise. It always just happen.
> I mean why do I sometimes get this illusion of a decision by the appearance of two voices or more. Cant that happen unconsciously? I hate my thoughts and I dont wanna them to arise.
> If there would be free will, why can I only choose between these 3-4 options which just happen and cant be chosen by me. Thats not free will.
> Besides all of these 3-4 options are what I experienced in the past (+dna etc.)... so where is "MYYYYYYYYYY" influence on them? All my options... all my free will is made by my conditioning... my environment, social conditioning, dna etc.
> That makes no sense. Why is it "MY" decision if the options where not "MINE". Cause all my thought is conditioned the decision is also not "MINE"... so I just happen.
> So how can something be wrong or bad or good and right if everything just happen, happen with no further options.
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> you are you, mind and body, when you confuse yourself, you have confused your mind, when you think of whether to eat a packet of biscuits, and a packet of crisps(the thought process is you working your mind), whatever you decide to eat (that choice was made by you)
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No my predetermination tells me which I like more. My choice isnt made from a superficial me but from 100% conditioning. The already made experiences with these food products tell me which suits right now more and if I haven't eaten both before I will go for the look which has made me more grateful before.
> 
> 
> 
> NumbNeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> if your saying everything is predetermined, lets go back to when nothing was predetermined.....back before language was invented, back when we were just animals, i bet you wouldnt be looking at the world as atoms back then.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> But even animals know everything is predetermined. MY dog runs with me to the kitchen cause he knows there is food and so he uses the logical that there he could get food.
> If he has his soft toy almost somewhere fallen down he tries to "rescue" it cause he knows of gravitation and that it would fall down.
> He doent drink terpentine if its standing somewhere on the floor before me using it cause he knows its bad for him and would kill him. He smells the odor and immediatly his brain calculate that he shouldnt drink that (it happens... nobody acts here.. like for humans)
> 
> Even stoneage people knew about it. If they wouldnt they wouldnt be able to survive cause the wouldnt understand that they need to eat to keep the body alive. Besides they wouldnt that they could kill each other or do anything.
> 
> Babies(me, everyone) cry cause they "know" that they will get attention. Without predetermination every organism would be lost and would have to be completely seperated from each other existences.
> 
> I feel like Im standing in front of a gigantic tree which is full of wonderful fruits but everybody tells me its wrong, an Illusion, compulsive useless thinking.
> 
> Common sense IS action-reaction. I dont get why nobody wants to understand that.
> Only cause you would loose your individuality? Why do "you'" need one?
> 
> I dont get it. I guess if nobody understands me.. rly nobody... I have to be wrong but then I dont get why "I" am so sure. It makes so much sense and I dont understand what other people are talking. Everybody just says... yes you have free will .. its you... our decisions!! But that makes no sense. They never explain how this could be possible and just saying that like religious people just say... yeah there is a god... you just need to believe in him...
> 
> Everything seems so esoteric and wrong to me
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Ummm, what is it you want us to say though? What is it you're looking for? Yes you are right to a degree but what is it you want to gain from that? Most of us have had the same thoughts at one stage or another, but the options are , deal with it and enjoy your life or spend your entire time dwelling on it.


----------



## backagain

Phasedout24 said:


> People might find this link interesting
> 
> (can't post link)
> 
> I'm pondering starting on a Glutamine supplement. It's only relatively recently been acknowledged that it may alter mood (as Glutamate after formation)


Thanks for the link, Glutamate has been a neurotransmitter of interest for me. It's like all these transmitters are working off each other so it's important to treat the whole range of transmitters rather than one like let's say a ssri does.

in response to edward_morden

Nothing is predetermined, life is what you make it, reality isn't predetermined, we create our own realities based on our own subjective ideas and if our subjective ideas become objective ideas then that's what we base our lives off of.

So when you go following the logic that everything we do is predetermined by some force outside of our own being then what's the difference between you and someone who believes in God ? That's what your reality becomes, you put your life in the hands of some other supernatural force outside of your own self. Everything you do is either determined from the inside or the outside and how the outside makes the inside reacts.

example: if someone comes up to me and starts punching me in the arm and I'm lead to believe through objective experience that it's supposed to happen then I do nothing about it.

On the other hand if my subjective experience tells me that this isn't what is supposed to happen then I have the ability to do something about it, I could react by punching him in the jaw and laying him out on the ground. I create that reality based on my own principles.

That's why it's important to have your own subjectivity on a step to step basis rather than having a predetermined objective view of things around you like you are proposing is universally true. It's bullshit.

Example : Randomness and chaos rather than order, If I beat the shit out of you without saying a damn word then you would understand just how I have the power to create a reality. All the social laws we have today weren't predetermined nor are they constant. They are determined by the people based on a cause and effect situation. We create our own realities based on our own ideas of the world around us.

There is no order there is chaos everywhere, order is something created by man to control other men. ORDER IN THE COURT! everything isn't predetermined by anyone other than yourself and if you are lead to believe that it is then that's what it becomes. Fear is a major tool to create a sense of powerlessness, when there is fear in us we either fight or flight, we fight whats in front of us or we run away based on our survival judgement. If you don't have anything to eat then of course your survival is going to determine you to go search for food. Trust your nervous system, stop believing in all these obsessive objective ruminations that have no subjective meaning or truth. Find what's real to you on a subjective level, find out who you ARE, what you want to do, what's holding you back and save the rest for someone with a better grip on reality. You see the chaos around you it's not predetermined it's determined by a set of laws, laws that govern everything around us. The balance of good and evil, yin and yang this or that. Stand up and make your own decisions.


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

back again..
you have a way with words 

i read his reply, and was thinking....WTF man!, how do i start to explain the ''flaws'' in his take on reality.

(flaws in quotation, to emphasise that reality is indeed all subjective, and if he wants to see the world in the way he does at present, then thats his choice, but its not really a good view to have in my opinion, as it leads to horrible uselessness thoughts, and from being like that, to where i am now, i choose where i am now, one hundred times over and over!)

ask yourself this Edward...are you happy?
i am, my view on things make me happy.


----------



## edward_morden

Phasedout24 said:


> Ummm, what is it you want us to say though? What is it you're looking for? Yes you are right to a degree but what is it you want to gain from that? Most of us have had the same thoughts at one stage or another, but the options are , deal with it and enjoy your life or spend your entire time dwelling on it.


I guess I wanna relize that "I" dont exist and that everything is pure love? :mrgreen: 
It makes so much sense. 



backagain said:


> So when you go following the logic that everything we do is predetermined by some force outside of our own being then what's the difference between you and someone who believes in God ? That's what your reality becomes, you put your life in the hands of some other supernatural force outside of your own self. Everything you do is either determined from the inside or the outside and how the outside makes the inside reacts.


You dont understand. I dont believe in an outside and an inside. I dont get this whole separation nonsense. Why do you want separate something what is one. 
There is no supernatural force outside of my own self because there is no own self and no supernatural force. There is only one being. Life. Why do you wanna make yourself to a supernatural force. That makes no sense.
I dont know how to call it or how to describe it. Its just perfect.

It explains everything. It explains infinity and existence. Because if you could separate something infinite would be impossible. Time and space and all these separations between objects are illusions. There is no evidence for time. NON. I mean like the existence of a past or future. Not the movement of a thing. Besides if everything is one there cant be a movement and so there cant be a space. 
The point is also that there isnt rly anything predeterminated cause there is only one eternal thing. nothing more. 
With predeterminated stuff you would need a beginning and an end.. a prima causa etc. 
It seems so logical to me but I just cant express it in words. 
Like I dont say laws of physics whatever are true and the reality. NO! Im just saying that in this illusion everything works on a pattern. It has to work on a pattern to gather this thought with logic. (illusion cause logic exists only in your mind and space,time and separation is just logic.)
I mean in the moment where an certain apple fell from a tree there is no way that in that moment where it fell it could have been ever different. Like if you would start life again and again from the exact moment the apple fell there is absolutly no way that it falls differently cause it always has the same determinations!
Its the same with all these individuals. You have to act like you do cause you have these certain determinations. Options would be like if you would be sth supernatural and would observe 10 different paralleluniverses and then choose which you wanna continue. Or something like that.



backagain said:


> example: if someone comes up to me and starts punching me in the arm and I'm lead to believe through objective experience that it's supposed to happen then I do nothing about it.
> 
> On the other hand if my subjective experience tells me that this isn't what is supposed to happen then I have the ability to do something about it, I could react by punching him in the jaw and laying him out on the ground. I create that reality based on my own principles.
> 
> That's why it's important to have your own subjectivity on a step to step basis rather than having a predetermined objective view of things around you like you are proposing is universally true. It's bullshit.


No. You again dont understand. Your example is simply wrong.(or not wrong but your conclusion is wrong) Let me explain.

If you never heard of this thought of having no free will and that everything is predetermined you probably will punch back. Okay. Cause you probably learned(you first have to learn it.. experience it.. = determination) that you have a own body and life and if somebody hurts you its bad for your body and if your body is sick or get hurt it could die.. so you wanna survive and punch back. All these reactions are solely based on your determination!

If you would have heard of this thought of having no free will and that everything is predetermined..:

1. you would maybe (if you rly believe in it or rather how much you experienced certain things and thoughts) not punch back cause you would now believe... ohh my god.. it makes no sense.. Im non existent and so its useless to save my body. Again. 100% determinated

2.you would punch back cause you didnt experience something or didnt heard enough thoughts (or to many and relized that no free will etc makes no sense). You would say... ya.. but I lisen to my subjective thoughts and yeah to myself... and then I would relize yaa.. I can punch back. I can do it cause I have a free will and its my decision.
This again.... is 100% determinated. Every "free-will" or "individual" decision would be based on already experienced moments, thoughts (maybe dna whatever) and you would just choose the way your mindset was shaped. There is no difference to you as a "whole".. as the bunch of atoms.. than to a single little atom. You and this single little atom happen the way it has to happen. Besides there is no difference to you as a whole and to the whole existence.

Its not like you could see in the future and know that the glass will fall and it doesnt matter what you do it will fall... no... there is no other ways to react around the falling glass...
'You have just one way to react and the glass just falls if you react that one way. you react that one way if everything else reacted that way. Its just everything is dependent from each other and "you" cant observe it as a independet supernatural being. "Your" mind cant see through this stuff cause there is nothing to see through.

I dont get why it seems soooo logical to me.(maybe im delusioned?) So 100% perfect. And why you seem not to be the opinion. Can you please state an argument thats not just "ya but you are yourself and you have a free will and so If you choose to think not to have a free will than you can choose that. Its YOUR decision" ... where is the logic? If there is no logic its senseless to formulate a argument or sentence cause the mind can only work with logic. Or rather... you dont tell me your logic.. sure there must be a logic in your thinking but you dont tell me. please tell me. thank you.

I really know nothing and dont wanna convince you but find out why it is logical to me and to nobody else oO


----------



## edward_morden

NumbNeo said:


> back again..
> you have a way with words
> 
> i read his reply, and was thinking....WTF man!, how do i start to explain the ''flaws'' in his take on reality.
> 
> (flaws in quotation, to emphasise that reality is indeed all subjective, and if he wants to see the world in the way he does at present, then thats his choice, but its not really a good view to have in my opinion, as it leads to horrible uselessness thoughts, and from being like that, to where i am now, i choose where i am now, one hundred times over and over!)
> 
> ask yourself this Edward...are you happy?
> i am, my view on things make me happy.


I "choose" my flaw-filled view cause I dont know anything else. For me its like if I have never seen an elephant and just saying a animal with a trunk doesnt exist (probably there are many more but lets say only elephants have a trunk) and you just say... oh man... just look at the elephant.. there it is.... it has a trunk...
But im just like.... yeah... but I cant see it.... why cant you show it to me....
And you are like.... but WTF!... there it is!!! Just look at it...

If Im happy... I dont know... I dont know what happy means. Is it possible to know what bliss is? I mean I remember if im anxious I have thoughts which make me afraid but yeah... its just these words.. I dont even know what afraid is.... lol... im so confused 
Do you want me to be jealous and sad of you? cause you have a good view of life what makes you happy? Is it really my fault that I dont get what you are talking about. All these individuality and free will, decisions, good and bad stuff doesnt seem logical to me. I just dont get it.
Is it like that I can choose from different views and Im just sadistic and wanna be unhappy so I look at life the way I do?

Im not really sad. I only know my view and it seems perfect.


----------



## edward_morden

To make a decision there must be options...

...but where are these options located? I cant see them and I cant find them. How is that even possible that options can be invisible and decisions disappear. Where are now the options to make the decision that options are visible again. Its not logical and I cant understand all of that


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

edward_morden said:


> I "choose" my flaw-filled view cause I dont know anything else. For me its like if I have never seen an elephant and just saying a animal with a trunk doesnt exist (probably there are many more but lets say only elephants have a trunk) and you just say... oh man... just look at the elephant.. there it is.... it has a trunk...
> But im just like.... yeah... but I cant see it.... why cant you show it to me....
> And you are like.... but WTF!... there it is!!! Just look at it...
> 
> If Im happy... I dont know... I dont know what happy means. Is it possible to know what bliss is? I mean I remember if im anxious I have thoughts which make me afraid but yeah... its just these words.. I dont even know what afraid is.... lol... im so confused
> Do you want me to be jealous and sad of you? cause you have a good view of life what makes you happy? Is it really my fault that I dont get what you are talking about. All these individuality and free will, decisions, good and bad stuff doesnt seem logical to me. I just dont get it.
> Is it like that I can choose from different views and Im just sadistic and wanna be unhappy so I look at life the way I do?
> 
> Im not really sad. I only know my view and it seems perfect.


no i dont want you to be jealous of me, or sad for me.
i was trying to potray a point of , well if your not happy with your view at present,then maybe you should change it, or adapt it slightly.

but if you say it seems perfect, then maybe you have the better view of the world, as i for one, dont think my views are by any means perfect or close to it.
its not like you choose from different views. although to an extent it is slightly.
just some internal thinking, its hard to explain, but sort of like questioning your reality, and answering questions in a normal way.

if your views arent debillitating you, dont change them, maybe that is you.., maybe you are the person who sees the world for what it really should be seen like, although majority of people(beyond these boards) dont seem to think like that, and they at least appear happy on the most part.

what made me sad..
thinking that everything/I was insignificant, we are in one of an infinite amount of galaxies, floating around in a never ending black abyss, for no purpose really. and on our planet we have all these people causing soo much hate and destruction due to made up laws that govern the madness. and i was powerless to live life the way i wanted to, happy and carefree, and nothing i specifically did, could change anyting in the world.

what now makes me happy.
dont seem that bothered anymore about the fact we are just flaoting about in space, there may be no purpose to it, but hey i am able to experience things, so il go with the flow, all these laws that govern us, although they are soo bad, in some respects they are good, imagine billions of people all living in absolute choas,wouldnt be a pretty site, i may not be able to influence the big things in the world, but hey, i can deal with that, lets play by the rules to some extent, everyone else is playing and theyre having some fun, and then with keeping this sort of attitude, i somehow managed to trasnform into one of those people who dont care about whats ACTUALLY going on, although i do know, i just dont let it bother me...

dude i dont really know how to respond to what your asking, il have a think about it while im high, and get back to you.

in a while man!


----------



## backagain

edward_morden said:


> Phasedout24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm, what is it you want us to say though? What is it you're looking for? Yes you are right to a degree but what is it you want to gain from that? Most of us have had the same thoughts at one stage or another, but the options are , deal with it and enjoy your life or spend your entire time dwelling on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I wanna relize that "I" dont exist and that everything is pure love? :mrgreen:
> It makes so much sense.
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when you go following the logic that everything we do is predetermined by some force outside of our own being then what's the difference between you and someone who believes in God ? That's what your reality becomes, you put your life in the hands of some other supernatural force outside of your own self. Everything you do is either determined from the inside or the outside and how the outside makes the inside reacts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You dont understand. I dont believe in an outside and an inside.* I dont get this whole separation nonsense. Why do you want separate something what is one.
> There is no supernatural force outside of my own self because there is no own self and no supernatural force. There is only one being. Life. Why do you wanna make yourself to a supernatural force. That makes no sense.
> I dont know how to call it or how to describe it. Its just perfect.
> 
> It explains everything. It explains infinity and existence. Because if you could separate something infinite would be impossible. Time and space and all these separations between objects are illusions. There is no evidence for time. NON. I mean like the existence of a past or future. Not the movement of a thing. Besides if everything is one there cant be a movement and so there cant be a space.
> The point is also that there isnt rly anything predeterminated cause there is only one eternal thing. nothing more.
> With predeterminated stuff you would need a beginning and an end.. a prima causa etc.
> It seems so logical to me but I just cant express it in words.
> Like I dont say laws of physics whatever are true and the reality. NO! Im just saying that in this illusion everything works on a pattern. It has to work on a pattern to gather this thought with logic. (illusion cause logic exists only in your mind and space,time and separation is just logic.)
> I mean in the moment where an certain apple fell from a tree there is no way that in that moment where it fell it could have been ever different. Like if you would start life again and again from the exact moment the apple fell there is absolutly no way that it falls differently cause it always has the same determinations!
> Its the same with all these individuals. You have to act like you do cause you have these certain determinations. Options would be like if you would be sth supernatural and would observe 10 different paralleluniverses and then choose which you wanna continue. Or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> example: if someone comes up to me and starts punching me in the arm and I'm lead to believe through objective experience that it's supposed to happen then I do nothing about it.
> 
> On the other hand if my subjective experience tells me that this isn't what is supposed to happen then I have the ability to do something about it, I could react by punching him in the jaw and laying him out on the ground. I create that reality based on my own principles.
> 
> That's why it's important to have your own subjectivity on a step to step basis rather than having a predetermined objective view of things around you like you are proposing is universally true. It's bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *No. You again dont understand. Your example is simply wrong.*(or not wrong but your conclusion is wrong) Let me explain.
> 
> If you never heard of this thought of having no free will and that everything is predetermined you probably will punch back. Okay. Cause you probably learned(you first have to learn it.. experience it.. = determination) that you have a own body and life and if somebody hurts you its bad for your body and if your body is sick or get hurt it could die.. so you wanna survive and punch back. All these reactions are solely based on your determination!
> 
> If you would have heard of this thought of having no free will and that everything is predetermined..:
> 
> 1. you would maybe (if you rly believe in it or rather how much you experienced certain things and thoughts) not punch back cause you would now believe... ohh my god.. it makes no sense.. Im non existent and so its useless to save my body. Again. 100% determinated
> 
> 2.you would punch back cause you didnt experience something or didnt heard enough thoughts (or to many and relized that no free will etc makes no sense). You would say... ya.. but I lisen to my subjective thoughts and yeah to myself... and then I would relize yaa.. I can punch back. I can do it cause I have a free will and its my decision.
> This again.... is 100% determinated. Every "free-will" or "individual" decision would be based on already experienced moments, thoughts (maybe dna whatever) and you would just choose the way your mindset was shaped. There is no difference to you as a "whole".. as the bunch of atoms.. than to a single little atom. You and this single little atom happen the way it has to happen. Besides there is no difference to you as a whole and to the whole existence.
> 
> Its not like you could see in the future and know that the glass will fall and it doesnt matter what you do it will fall... no... there is no other ways to react around the falling glass...
> 'You have just one way to react and the glass just falls if you react that one way. you react that one way if everything else reacted that way. Its just everything is dependent from each other and "you" cant observe it as a independet supernatural being. "Your" mind cant see through this stuff cause there is nothing to see through.
> 
> I dont get why it seems soooo logical to me.(maybe im delusioned?) So 100% perfect. And why you seem not to be the opinion. Can you please state an argument thats not just "ya but you are yourself and you have a free will and so If you choose to think not to have a free will than you can choose that. Its YOUR decision" ... where is the logic? If there is no logic its senseless to formulate a argument or sentence cause the mind can only work with logic. Or rather... you dont tell me your logic.. sure there must be a logic in your thinking but you dont tell me. please tell me. thank you.
> 
> I really know nothing and dont wanna convince you but find out why it is logical to me and to nobody else oO
Click to expand...

Hmmm are you on acid right now ?

You don't understand the separation between the order of life? The difference between I and you ? that we may both be similar but at the same time different?

It sounds like you're thoughts are bordering on the delusional. Think about that.

Whatever it is I'm trying to tell you, you reject or you don't want to understand it, instead of listening to what others have to say, your mind becomes governed by your own obsessive ruminations. You're also contradicting your own ideas, for instance when you say*



I dont get this whole separation nonsense.

Click to expand...

* yet you begin to separate your ideas from mine it becomes hypocritical.

That's why I think that if I went over your post again and again and again and answered every question directly from my perspective I would be met with more rejection. It appears to be a pointless effort.


----------



## edward_morden

you can still do weed without paranoia? awesome. Im already extremely stoned after 2 drags(and extremely depressive and scared) and like after 4 drags my voices totally detach and my view gets smaller and behind me everything gets dark.. like I see the view which isnt there (normally too but not that strong)... the most craziest thing is.. if I meditate.. always already in the first 5mins my whole view (the one that doesnt exist... like your eyes are limited to a certain view.. but the transition and what lies beyond that) gets totally white and light. Its awesome. Like freedom.



NumbNeo said:


> i was trying to potray a point of , well if your not happy with your view at present,then maybe you should change it, or adapt it slightly.
> 
> but if you say it seems perfect, then maybe you have the better view of the world, as i for one, dont think my views are by any means perfect or close to it.
> its not like you choose from different views. although to an extent it is slightly.
> just some internal thinking, its hard to explain, but sort of like questioning your reality, and answering questions in a normal way.
> 
> if your views arent debillitating you, dont change them, maybe that is you.., maybe you are the person who sees the world for what it really should be seen like, although majority of people(beyond these boards) dont seem to think like that, and they at least appear happy on the most part.


No its not my view which is perfect... its life itself. Life seems perfect and the best imaginable thing and beyond that. But I guess I miss the comparison? 
I just know about that what I experienced and learned so I dont get how Life cant be perfect. I mean there is no way of missing something what you dont know, or?
And if you know it its already there, isnt it?

What is answering questions in a normal way? Like do you think I dont think normal with my view? Could you please tell what you mean with that.

I dont knno if my view is debilitating cause like I said... I dont have something to compare to and "I" could change it. To what should "I" even be able to change it to.. to something I dont experienced already? How should that be possible? How should I be able to have these option? I mean its like pointing in the darkness without knowing what is in it and longing for that? Or do you have access to not known knowledge.
I know... I probably sound extremely dumb and whatever but I really really dont know anything about these things. Like everyone talks about it but I really dont get it.
Okay need to stop I get extremley dissociative...


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phasedout24 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummm, what is it you want us to say though? What is it you're looking for? Yes you are right to a degree but what is it you want to gain from that? Most of us have had the same thoughts at one stage or another, but the options are , deal with it and enjoy your life or spend your entire time dwelling on it.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I wanna relize that "I" dont exist and that everything is pure love? :mrgreen:
> It makes so much sense.
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> So when you go following the logic that everything we do is predetermined by some force outside of our own being then what's the difference between you and someone who believes in God ? That's what your reality becomes, you put your life in the hands of some other supernatural force outside of your own self. Everything you do is either determined from the inside or the outside and how the outside makes the inside reacts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *You dont understand. I dont believe in an outside and an inside.* I dont get this whole separation nonsense. Why do you want separate something what is one.
> There is no supernatural force outside of my own self because there is no own self and no supernatural force. There is only one being. Life. Why do you wanna make yourself to a supernatural force. That makes no sense.
> I dont know how to call it or how to describe it. Its just perfect.
> 
> It explains everything. It explains infinity and existence. Because if you could separate something infinite would be impossible. Time and space and all these separations between objects are illusions. There is no evidence for time. NON. I mean like the existence of a past or future. Not the movement of a thing. Besides if everything is one there cant be a movement and so there cant be a space.
> The point is also that there isnt rly anything predeterminated cause there is only one eternal thing. nothing more.
> With predeterminated stuff you would need a beginning and an end.. a prima causa etc.
> It seems so logical to me but I just cant express it in words.
> Like I dont say laws of physics whatever are true and the reality. NO! Im just saying that in this illusion everything works on a pattern. It has to work on a pattern to gather this thought with logic. (illusion cause logic exists only in your mind and space,time and separation is just logic.)
> I mean in the moment where an certain apple fell from a tree there is no way that in that moment where it fell it could have been ever different. Like if you would start life again and again from the exact moment the apple fell there is absolutly no way that it falls differently cause it always has the same determinations!
> Its the same with all these individuals. You have to act like you do cause you have these certain determinations. Options would be like if you would be sth supernatural and would observe 10 different paralleluniverses and then choose which you wanna continue. Or something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> example: if someone comes up to me and starts punching me in the arm and I'm lead to believe through objective experience that it's supposed to happen then I do nothing about it.
> 
> On the other hand if my subjective experience tells me that this isn't what is supposed to happen then I have the ability to do something about it, I could react by punching him in the jaw and laying him out on the ground. I create that reality based on my own principles.
> 
> That's why it's important to have your own subjectivity on a step to step basis rather than having a predetermined objective view of things around you like you are proposing is universally true. It's bullshit.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *No. You again dont understand. Your example is simply wrong.*(or not wrong but your conclusion is wrong) Let me explain.
> 
> If you never heard of this thought of having no free will and that everything is predetermined you probably will punch back. Okay. Cause you probably learned(you first have to learn it.. experience it.. = determination) that you have a own body and life and if somebody hurts you its bad for your body and if your body is sick or get hurt it could die.. so you wanna survive and punch back. All these reactions are solely based on your determination!
> 
> If you would have heard of this thought of having no free will and that everything is predetermined..:
> 
> 1. you would maybe (if you rly believe in it or rather how much you experienced certain things and thoughts) not punch back cause you would now believe... ohh my god.. it makes no sense.. Im non existent and so its useless to save my body. Again. 100% determinated
> 
> 2.you would punch back cause you didnt experience something or didnt heard enough thoughts (or to many and relized that no free will etc makes no sense). You would say... ya.. but I lisen to my subjective thoughts and yeah to myself... and then I would relize yaa.. I can punch back. I can do it cause I have a free will and its my decision.
> This again.... is 100% determinated. Every "free-will" or "individual" decision would be based on already experienced moments, thoughts (maybe dna whatever) and you would just choose the way your mindset was shaped. There is no difference to you as a "whole".. as the bunch of atoms.. than to a single little atom. You and this single little atom happen the way it has to happen. Besides there is no difference to you as a whole and to the whole existence.
> 
> Its not like you could see in the future and know that the glass will fall and it doesnt matter what you do it will fall... no... there is no other ways to react around the falling glass...
> 'You have just one way to react and the glass just falls if you react that one way. you react that one way if everything else reacted that way. Its just everything is dependent from each other and "you" cant observe it as a independet supernatural being. "Your" mind cant see through this stuff cause there is nothing to see through.
> 
> I dont get why it seems soooo logical to me.(maybe im delusioned?) So 100% perfect. And why you seem not to be the opinion. Can you please state an argument thats not just "ya but you are yourself and you have a free will and so If you choose to think not to have a free will than you can choose that. Its YOUR decision" ... where is the logic? If there is no logic its senseless to formulate a argument or sentence cause the mind can only work with logic. Or rather... you dont tell me your logic.. sure there must be a logic in your thinking but you dont tell me. please tell me. thank you.
> 
> I really know nothing and dont wanna convince you but find out why it is logical to me and to nobody else oO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm are you on acid right now ?
> 
> You don't understand the separation between the order of life? The difference between I and you ? that we may both be similar but at the same time different?
> 
> It sounds like you're thoughts are bordering on the delusional. Think about that.
> 
> Whatever it is I'm trying to tell you, you reject or you don't want to understand it, instead of listening to what others have to say, your mind becomes governed by your own obsessive ruminations. You're also contradicting your own ideas, for instance when you say*
> 
> 
> 
> I dont get this whole separation nonsense.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> * yet you begin to separate your ideas from mine it becomes hypocritical.
> 
> That's why I think that if I went over your post again and again and again and answered every question directly from my perspective I would be met with more rejection. It appears to be a pointless effort.
Click to expand...

Thats why Im not yelling "LALALA IM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG"

Its not just your ideas... I also use I and that I think and that I do and that I whatever... and you do whatever etc.

Im not on acid and Im not lieing or joking whatever. Im just confused. So fucking confused 

besides... I just dont get your points.. the dont make any sense.. should I get them? Im really sorry but I just dont know what you are talking. Sorry for wasting your time but I cant do anything for that.. I guess? Omg I will stop thinking about that... its night now and at night I cant think about such things.. get to scared...


----------



## egm824

For a community put together for the purpose of bettering our understanding of this affliction, you guys sure quarrel a lot. Take it easy. I'd like to hear some updates about this supplement program. I'm a little interested.


----------



## backagain

edward_morden said:


> you can still do weed without paranoia? awesome. Im already extremely stoned after 2 drags(and extremely depressive and scared) and like after 4 drags my voices totally detach and my view gets smaller and behind me everything gets dark.. like I see the view which isnt there (normally too but not that strong)... the most craziest thing is.. if I meditate.. always already in the first 5mins my whole view (the one that doesnt exist... like your eyes are limited to a certain view.. but the transition and what lies beyond that) gets totally white and light. Its awesome. Like freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> NumbNeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was trying to potray a point of , well if your not happy with your view at present,then maybe you should change it, or adapt it slightly.
> 
> but if you say it seems perfect, then maybe you have the better view of the world, as i for one, dont think my views are by any means perfect or close to it.
> its not like you choose from different views. although to an extent it is slightly.
> just some internal thinking, its hard to explain, but sort of like questioning your reality, and answering questions in a normal way.
> 
> if your views arent debillitating you, dont change them, maybe that is you.., maybe you are the person who sees the world for what it really should be seen like, although majority of people(beyond these boards) dont seem to think like that, and they at least appear happy on the most part.
> 
> 
> 
> No its not my view which is perfect... its life itself. Life seems perfect and the best imaginable thing and beyond that. But I guess I miss the comparison?
> I just know about that what I experienced and learned so I dont get how Life cant be perfect. I mean there is no way of missing something what you dont know, or?
> And if you know it its already there, isnt it?
> 
> What is answering questions in a normal way? Like do you think I dont think normal with my view? Could you please tell what you mean with that.
> 
> I dont knno if my view is debilitating cause like I said... I dont have something to compare to and "I" could change it. To what should "I" even be able to change it to.. to something I dont experienced already? How should that be possible? How should I be able to have these option? I mean its like pointing in the darkness without knowing what is in it and longing for that? Or do you have access to not known knowledge.
> I know... I probably sound extremely dumb and whatever but I really really dont know anything about these things. Like everyone talks about it but I really dont get it.
> Okay need to stop I get extremley dissociative...
Click to expand...

I can understand

How are you going to understand what i'm trying to tell you if you can't relate to what I'm saying. Don't be so hard on yourself, Just take 1 thing at a time and just try to make sense of what's in front of you. I can tell you are really obsessive, you need to find something that you can enjoy so that you can feel more comfortable . Whatever it is don't get too frustrated man, it's alright they are just thoughts without substance. Just realize them for what they are..

Are you on any prescription medications ?

What sort of mental disorders have you had in the past ? anxiety ocd panic disorder depression ?


----------



## Claymore

egm824 said:


> For a community put together for the purpose of bettering our understanding of this affliction, you guys sure quarrel a lot. Take it easy. I'd like to hear some updates about this supplement program. I'm a little interested.


Tommy is going to try one more thing to see if he can make the concoction any better than it already is and after he tries that, he is going to put everything he has found out and what you should take and how you should take it in one BIG thread so you guys can get better. I'm starting mine tommorrow when it comes in the mail and a bunch of people are already getting better by trying this so i'm pretty sure its gonna work. All the evidence looks solid on why and how it should work so i'm sure he'll put it all in one thread in a few days. Other than that (and he's gonna hate me for saying this again because he has already gotten like 50 private messages from people on how to do this. :lol: ) you can send him a private message and ask the questions to him. :wink:


----------



## rob35235

Do you guys realize vitamin B levels can easily be checked? If the levels are normal..then what is all this?


----------



## Guest

'normal' vitamin B levels may actually be very different from those needed to not fall ill.
RDA's for example are what we require simply to stay alive, rather than to stay at optimum health.


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> you can still do weed without paranoia? awesome. Im already extremely stoned after 2 drags(and extremely depressive and scared) and like after 4 drags my voices totally detach and my view gets smaller and behind me everything gets dark.. like I see the view which isnt there (normally too but not that strong)... the most craziest thing is.. if I meditate.. always already in the first 5mins my whole view (the one that doesnt exist... like your eyes are limited to a certain view.. but the transition and what lies beyond that) gets totally white and light. Its awesome. Like freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> NumbNeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> i was trying to potray a point of , well if your not happy with your view at present,then maybe you should change it, or adapt it slightly.
> 
> but if you say it seems perfect, then maybe you have the better view of the world, as i for one, dont think my views are by any means perfect or close to it.
> its not like you choose from different views. although to an extent it is slightly.
> just some internal thinking, its hard to explain, but sort of like questioning your reality, and answering questions in a normal way.
> 
> if your views arent debillitating you, dont change them, maybe that is you.., maybe you are the person who sees the world for what it really should be seen like, although majority of people(beyond these boards) dont seem to think like that, and they at least appear happy on the most part.
> 
> 
> 
> No its not my view which is perfect... its life itself. Life seems perfect and the best imaginable thing and beyond that. But I guess I miss the comparison?
> I just know about that what I experienced and learned so I dont get how Life cant be perfect. I mean there is no way of missing something what you dont know, or?
> And if you know it its already there, isnt it?
> 
> What is answering questions in a normal way? Like do you think I dont think normal with my view? Could you please tell what you mean with that.
> 
> I dont knno if my view is debilitating cause like I said... I dont have something to compare to and "I" could change it. To what should "I" even be able to change it to.. to something I dont experienced already? How should that be possible? How should I be able to have these option? I mean its like pointing in the darkness without knowing what is in it and longing for that? Or do you have access to not known knowledge.
> I know... I probably sound extremely dumb and whatever but I really really dont know anything about these things. Like everyone talks about it but I really dont get it.
> Okay need to stop I get extremley dissociative...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I can understand
> 
> How are you going to understand what i'm trying to tell you if you can't relate to what I'm saying. Don't be so hard on yourself, Just take 1 thing at a time and just try to make sense of what's in front of you. I can tell you are really obsessive, you need to find something that you can enjoy so that you can feel more comfortable . Whatever it is don't get too frustrated man, it's alright they are just thoughts without substance. Just realize them for what they are..
> 
> Are you on any prescription medications ?
> 
> What sort of mental disorders have you had in the past ? anxiety ocd panic disorder depression ?
Click to expand...

no prescription medication and I dont know exactly what mental disorders I had in the past(never went to a psychologist so I can only guess). I can remember that I was my whole life extremely anxious. (especially if Im alone, if Im in the dark and if I exist)
Already with the age of 7-8 I was thinking Im an experiment or sth and that nothing is real and that its like observed what I do and how I react to stuff.(like Im lieing in a white room in a virtual state and behind glass windows people with pen and paper writing down what happens.)
Besides till now (Im now 18) Im not able to sleep without a light on, cause I see like mild hallucinations if it is just pitch black and I start feeling like my whole life was just this pitch black darkness. Additionally I have to sleep with music on cause I hear frightening noises without it. Its just to quiet and that makes me scared.
I had ocd since I can remember and I was also my whole life really depressive. With the age of 7 I guess I got a sickness(dont wanna tell which) but I didnt tell my parents about it cause I wanted that it kills me and so it shouldnt be cured.(it can kill you...) Also I was a bit scared of telling it. I was lucky and survived till I was 16 and than finally cured it etc. cause at the same time I got these depersonalisation/derealisation and I thought its because of this sickness and if I cure it this depersonalisation/derealisation will go away.

Besides my life is now like a look in the refrigerator/menu. If I look in it or go to a restaurant etc. I can imagine how every food would taste and can exactly choose if its what I want right now.. or rather if it makes me full but not too full that I feel sick. Its always limited.
With my life its a bit similar. Like if I wake up I imagine all possible ways of things I could do but they are always the same and not what I want. Everything what I can imagine is just not what I want. 
There are just to fill the time.. to fill me.
There is always this longing for that special thing what not exist or I cannot imagine. Like if all this is a lie. All this "life". Im just doing the stuff I do cause im limited to it. 
I feel like there is something missing what should be there or was there when I was very small, but I dont know what.
Its like im swimming alone in the middle of a vast ocean.. there is just the ocean on the horizon... I could do everything what is in this vast ocean but I know everything already (even if I didnt do it yet cause everything is the same.. just water) I want something different what isnt there but I know it exists. Its strange.


----------



## backagain

edward_morden said:


> no prescription medication and I dont know exactly what mental disorders I had in the past(never went to a psychologist so I can only guess). I can remember that I was my whole life extremely anxious. (especially if Im alone, if Im in the dark and if I exist)
> Already with the age of 7-8 I was thinking Im an experiment or sth and that nothing is real and that its like observed what I do and how I react to stuff.*(like Im lieing in a white room in a virtual state and behind glass windows people with pen and paper writing down what happens.)*
> Besides till now (Im now 18) Im not able to sleep without a light on, cause I see like mild hallucinations if it is just pitch black and I start feeling like my whole life was just this pitch black darkness. Additionally I have to sleep with music on cause I hear frightening noises without it. Its just to quiet and that makes me scared.
> I had ocd since I can remember and I was also my whole life really depressive. *With the age of 7 I guess I got a sickness(dont wanna tell which) but I didnt tell my parents about it cause I wanted that it kills me and so it shouldnt be cured.(it can kill you...) Also I was a bit scared of telling it.* I was lucky and survived till I was 16 and than finally cured it etc. cause at the same time I got these depersonalisation/derealisation and I thought its because of this sickness and if I cure it this depersonalisation/derealisation will go away.
> 
> Besides my life is now like a look in the refrigerator/menu. If I look in it or go to a restaurant etc. I can imagine how every food would taste and can exactly choose if its what I want right now.. or rather if it makes me full but not too full that I feel sick. Its always limited.
> With my life its a bit similar. Like if I wake up I imagine all possible ways of things I could do but they are always the same and not what I want. Everything what I can imagine is just not what I want.
> There are just to fill the time.. to fill me.
> *There is always this longing for that special thing what not exist or I cannot imagine. Like if all this is a lie. All this "life". Im just doing the stuff I do cause im limited to it. *
> I feel like there is something missing what should be there or was there when I was very small, but I dont know what.
> Its like im swimming alone in the middle of a vast ocean.. there is just the ocean on the horizon... I could do everything what is in this vast ocean but I know everything already (even if I didnt do it yet cause everything is the same.. just water) I want something different what isnt there but I know it exists. Its strange.


Ok first of all you shouldn't ignore REAL problems... This is not some sort of experiment, you are only fooling yourself and no one else. OCD is a REAL problem and LIFE is REAL, why ? because we all have a time limit, we're not gonna be here analyzing the world forever, you're GOING TO DIE EVENTUALLY. The only thing guaranteed in life is death. So please when I hear people say this crap I just think it's psuedo bullshit. Also I'm not sure what sort of "sickness" you thought you may have cured but the reality is you can't cure any real sickness on your own. It's just a creation of your own ocd/hypochondriac mind that you choose to believe, it has nothing to do with reality. You're 18 years old and you've been living inside your head your whole life, don't you think there's going to be a time when you're gonna have to move out and live on your own ? in the real world ?I just can't picture you being productive in life when you have all this PSEUDO BULLSHIT going on in you head. Life demands change, you're just resisting the natural laws of life and regressing deeper into your own impaired cognition.

Trust me things change for the BETTER if you just allow them to be and go with the energy flow. Also this movie you might enjoy watching.


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> no prescription medication and I dont know exactly what mental disorders I had in the past(never went to a psychologist so I can only guess). I can remember that I was my whole life extremely anxious. (especially if Im alone, if Im in the dark and if I exist)
> Already with the age of 7-8 I was thinking Im an experiment or sth and that nothing is real and that its like observed what I do and how I react to stuff.*(like Im lieing in a white room in a virtual state and behind glass windows people with pen and paper writing down what happens.)*
> Besides till now (Im now 18) Im not able to sleep without a light on, cause I see like mild hallucinations if it is just pitch black and I start feeling like my whole life was just this pitch black darkness. Additionally I have to sleep with music on cause I hear frightening noises without it. Its just to quiet and that makes me scared.
> I had ocd since I can remember and I was also my whole life really depressive. *With the age of 7 I guess I got a sickness(dont wanna tell which) but I didnt tell my parents about it cause I wanted that it kills me and so it shouldnt be cured.(it can kill you...) Also I was a bit scared of telling it.* I was lucky and survived till I was 16 and than finally cured it etc. cause at the same time I got these depersonalisation/derealisation and I thought its because of this sickness and if I cure it this depersonalisation/derealisation will go away.
> 
> Besides my life is now like a look in the refrigerator/menu. If I look in it or go to a restaurant etc. I can imagine how every food would taste and can exactly choose if its what I want right now.. or rather if it makes me full but not too full that I feel sick. Its always limited.
> With my life its a bit similar. Like if I wake up I imagine all possible ways of things I could do but they are always the same and not what I want. Everything what I can imagine is just not what I want.
> There are just to fill the time.. to fill me.
> *There is always this longing for that special thing what not exist or I cannot imagine. Like if all this is a lie. All this "life". Im just doing the stuff I do cause im limited to it. *
> I feel like there is something missing what should be there or was there when I was very small, but I dont know what.
> Its like im swimming alone in the middle of a vast ocean.. there is just the ocean on the horizon... I could do everything what is in this vast ocean but I know everything already (even if I didnt do it yet cause everything is the same.. just water) I want something different what isnt there but I know it exists. Its strange.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok first of all you shouldn't ignore REAL problems... This is not some sort of experiment, you are only fooling yourself and no one else. OCD is a REAL problem and LIFE is REAL, why ? because we all have a time limit, we're not gonna be here analyzing the world forever, you're GOING TO DIE EVENTUALLY. The only thing guaranteed in life is death. So please when I hear people say this crap I just think it's psuedo bullshit. Also I'm not sure what sort of "sickness" you thought you may have cured but the reality is you can't cure any real sickness on your own. It's just a creation of your own ocd/hypochondriac mind that you choose to believe, it has nothing to do with reality. You're 18 years old and you've been living inside your head your whole life, don't you think there's going to be a time when you're gonna have to move out and live on your own ? in the real world ?I just can't picture you being productive in life when you have all this PSEUDO BULLSHIT going on in you head. Life demands change, you're just resisting the natural laws of life and regressing deeper into your own impaired cognition.
> 
> Trust me things change for the BETTER if you just allow them to be and go with the energy flow. Also this movie you might enjoy watching.
Click to expand...

(Im not really angry, sad or whatever :mrgreen: ... Im abit confused that you are saying I was not really sick and that everything what I say is pseudo bullshit but yeah... I really dont care about my thoughts and what I said cause Im detached so .. yes... )

FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU!!!!!
Im not hear that you ***** can make fun of me. Im so honest and post all this and ***** just say its pseudo bullshit... you dont even know what im talking about!!!!

REAL PROBLEMS??? I laugh about all this real problems... oh.. I have no money... oh thats soooo ridicilous.. or oh my girlfriend left.. yeah... whatever.... oh im ugly and nobody likes me.... that are not "real" problems you talk about.. that are fucking mind made illusions... a good career or whatever......

I know that "I" gonna die so what? You fucking retarded piece of shit... besides my "sickness" got cured by a doctor with hundreds of medications and what ever... it wasnt mental it was physical and a severe REAL sickness... SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!! It even really doesnt matter.. I just wanted to state with this that I was always suicidal = depressive...

Besides I dont think anymore of being observed and living in a virtual reality.. that was when I was 7-8... till maybe 12 or whatever.. You were asking about my past so dont make up stuff what I never said!
I just wanted to say with that example that I was already very dissociative at a young age.

I just dont know what "real" Life should be.. what you are talking about... what inside and outside the head is... what productive should be? Real life is to work and earn much money(productive??) and live in this human made thought of society and meaning?Awesome... than I dont want this real life. FUCK YOU!!!

You are just saying what I think is bullshit or has nothing to do with reality!! Fuck you.. you fucking esoteric believe in a "soul" and whatever.. in a real me with a free will.. thats ridiculous and pseudo bullshit.

And if things would change for the better, like you are saying, you are stating that death is the best of all... think about what you are saying.

Go with the energy flow... as if there would be a way to not go with it....

Besides you are talking about death.. about not being (i dont believe in death by the way cause I dont believe in myself and that I exist as a separated supernatural entity what could end) 
about nothing... plz can you explain how you can imagine nothing, not being, death? Isnt it more like you are talking about something with no meaning. I mean you are saying there will be death and in fact you are saying that there will be something but nobody can imagine what its like or what it is.

So your words are pseudo Bullshit.

Im really open for arguments why my view is wrong etc.. but you are always just like "Im so intellegent and you are fucking wrong and talking pseudobullshit"

Besides I know the movie but I dont know how it should help? Its a horror movie so do you wanna make me afraid or what? Are you just out of you mind or what? THIS is a self help forum for mental confused people and you fucking ***** just saying everyone is a ***** who dont believe in your retarded believe. No arguments or no .. yeah I see you are delusioned and just cant do anything again it... 
no you are just mean and not very helpful.


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## edward_morden

updated


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## JessMess

I'm gonna have to agree with backagain, you can't just be in you head your whole life when real things are happening all around you. I mean I guess you could, but it would be a cop-out. Same with not dealing with real problems, it's just a cop-out. And you said you were limited to life? That's really arrogant, look how amazing and complex the world we live in is! I appreciate my life to it's full extent, every day.


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## edward_morden

JessMess said:


> I'm gonna have to agree with backagain, you can't just be in you head your whole life when real things are happening all around you. I mean I guess you could, but it would be a cop-out. Same with not dealing with real problems, it's just a cop-out. And you said you were limited to life? That's really arrogant, look how amazing and complex the world we live in is! I appreciate my life to it's full extent, every day.


I know. Its strange that I feel limited to life although life is everything what is. I just said that cause I feel lost. I dont know what I want. Everything I know is not what I want and so I just dont know what to do.
I dont even know what to expect from reality or happiness. I dont know what a non depersonalized state should be like. I dont have any aims. Isnt that very bad. At least it feels not good. 
I just could sit there and stare at the wall my whole life and it wouldnt bother me cause I just feel like I have already everything what life seems to be offering. Because of this I think I just overlook something. There must be something what I have to long for^^. Everything is to perfect even with all my sadness and anger. It too easy^^
Where is all the confusion and all the longing gone  There is nothing more to long for.


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## JessMess

I don't know you very well, and I'm no psychotherapist, but given your age and your apparent situation, maybe you are just trying to find an identity? I remember being 15 and feeling like life couldn't satisfy me, and feeling very depressed, and I was just trying to figure out who I was.


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## edward_morden

Maybe.... an identity...mhh... I dont know what that is. I mean what can "I" be. Can I be my name, age, look and action? No I cant. I didnt choose my name. I didnt choose my age. I didnt choose my look. And finally I never did an action. all these things just happened. Everything what happens has no possessing entity. (You could argue about my actions if you believe in a supernatural entity but still... should I be just my actions? Is that your identity? ) 
So you mean I lost my identity and now there is nobody there who can be somebody and because of that there is no thought appearing which tells me what "I" am.
I never thought about that way. It seems logically. Thanks

Could you please tell me about your identity. Did you find it? If yes did you choose it or did it happen to you? If it happen to you how can it be possessed by you?


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## JessMess

Lol, It's part of growing up. It's not like I 'lost' it and had to go through great depths to find it again. It's just becoming who you are, then knowing what that is. Do whatever you're comfortable with. I didn't concentrate so hard on what it was, then it slowly collected itself. I had a big struggle with it when I was 15/16 especially.


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## edward_morden

Sorry that didnt helped me at all. How can I become who I am , although I am already. I mean you have to admit I am. So how can I become what I am. After that knowing what that is? What I am? I am I am.
Could you tell me what you are? Maybe that would help. thanks


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## JessMess

Only you can find out how you can become who you are. You exist, but that doesn;t mean you know who you are. And I am who I am; who I want to be. :mrgreen:


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## DownTheRabbitHole

edward you just twist things, theres nothing anyone here can say to help you untill your ready to stop thinking of things in such complex and pointless processes.
i know what jesse talking about, thats kinda how i feel i cured DP a bit, when it was real bad at first before i was on here, i just felt like a void, or an empty hollow shell, would freak the shit out of me, not connecting to myself,instead i was just analysing everything, rather than actually doing something and thinking of the results later..

slowly but surely, and with its ups and downs, i felt 'myself' starting to come together again.
i came to the realisation that my old self had been wiped away(maybe it wasnt a good enough personality/structure to survive- i was soooo naive back just before i got DP), but now, im way more wiser, and more capable of fending for myself in the world now.

I feel like im piecing together, not like a new self, but an updated one,one capable of surviving in the big REAL world, not the one in my head that is magical that i THINK exists.
i still know my past-it comes back in pieces,although i cant think back and actually try and remember some things at will[may be normal anyway])

finding your identity is only hard if you make it hard, once you begin to sieze it, in ways such as...experimenting with things, actually doing things,giving your brain the info it needs to REALLY know what doing things is like, eventualy finding out what you do like.
i guarantee, theres something everyone would love to do, and enjoy doing, but they just havent found it yet.
go skydiving,travelling,walks,cinema,go out, pull a chick/or a guy?? :lol: ,bungee jumping, read a book,play darts,hockey or even floorball.
Go find out what doing things is really like, and make an effort to experiment and attempt to find what you enjoy.

if you dont, youll just live a fucked up life, of not doing anything, because you feel like you already know what it will be like, because you Think you know, but actually doing things is a much different experience.

believe me, travelling to amsterdam yourself like i did the other day, wasa daunting experience, serious DP and detaching with mad anxious thought patterns and panicing, because i got lost, then smoked a joint, and had to leave the coffee shop, was sioo detached, and didnt feel like i was there, just like the old days .

but when i waited out the stone,and calmed myself down, had a bite to eat, i felt fine, and smoked later aswell.was getting really detached, but it no longer lingers around after it, just dissapeared with the stone. some times i just got a nice stone, with no anxious dp shit going on.

fuuuck just realised how long this post is now, and i dont even have a clue what ive said, i feel like ive pure sidetracked, damn weeed i tellz ya! anyways, hope maybe something up there helps.

think the jist of it was...

stop analysing things and start doing stuff.
once you start, the rest falls into place, youll not attach the same intensity to the existiantilist thoughts you have going on, because you start forming a self, once you start to form it, you will notice it, and then be able to self help your own recovery rate, its allll in the head.


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## edward_morden

NumbNeo, thank you very much for you post. I appreciate it.

I dont know. I cant understand why being afraid of your thoughts and trying to ignore these thoughts(with just other ones) should be good or right. Isnt that making the conflict of depersonalisation?
I mean isnt it bad to say that something what is you isnt you. Or rather not helpful to feel real and like yourself.

I mean everybody who thinks for one minute in a logial way about where thoughts come from will relize that every single wonderful thought is just arising out of conditioning. Conditioning is the rest of the world. Everything else what is beyond you, like there is no way that you had the possibility to generate a own single thought that isnt 100% connected to the rest of the life and only originates in you(supernaturally free will you). So I mean. If you really dont get this.. that you have no choice and no will cause all your thoughts are life itself, are possessed by you as much as a tree outside is possessed by you, I really dont know how to explain it you. I dont know. I just cant understand how this cant be logical if science makes logic for you. How is it not possible to get actio et reactio.

There is no need in being in control of which thought arise. You cant even think right now of anything not conditioned. Every little thought is "logical" and "realistic" cause its 100% connected to what is and what you experienced. Its not like you could bring new thoughts which have never seen any connection with what has been already in life. It wouldnt be logical and simple.
Just take a pen and paper and write for 5min down every thought you have. Then analyze it and you will see that they are just what life is. Conditioning. What you experienced during life etc.

So if you accept now that there is no struggle with all these thoughts. No struggle with thought which seem to be bad and thought which seem to be good than all this conflict disappears. I mean to judge about one of your thoughts just one other thought says that this thought is "YOU" and is afraid of this first thought and wants it to go away. Its like hurting yourself. Why dont live in peace and accept that these are all your thoughts and not suddenly from your will disconnected thoughts.

So it doesnt matter in which philosophy you believe. If you are buddhist, nihilist or whatever. Its always that YOU are your thoughts. If you dont love your thoughts and build a little war within all these thoughts, with thoughts claiming they are superior and your true self and others which are crazy and bad, you wont be at peace and feel bad and anxious. Its so logically. You just dont want to be that what you are and so you feeling detached or rather dont appreciate the beauty of life itself. I mean every thought you have is as beauty as the most beautiful tree out there. 
Why looking always for beauty outside of you illusionary separated self which you can attach on if you are already everything what is.
I really believe that there is nothing or nobody that wants to make you or me afraid. There is nobody(no god, no supernatural entity, no evil demon or whatever) who takes away your control of the thoughts and then gives you bad and anxious thoughts to feel sad and fearful.
Its like a little child believe with no logic to believe in that a thought can be bad or not you, that you have to be attentive and defend with your little good thought all the bad disconnected thoughts.
I mean judgment is always thought and if there arises a thought that says "OH my god, Im helpless, I lost the will to control my thoughts. Now they are raging and scaring me" its just a thought which is equal and not different to these "bad" thoughts. I just judges about the other thoughts and says that they are bad and that you should feel anxious.

I mean to go further I would have to say that there is no "you" and "me" and everything is just happening so your thoughts are not yourself cause everything just is and no "you'" exists that could be your thought. 
But I guess that would sound like a delusion for "you" :|

Everybody who thinks now im bullshitting around should ask themselves about their approach of hiding them from their thoughts. I mean your approach doesnt sound peacefully, fluent, logically and like if it would just create more and more of these thoughts, which are bad and should be avoided.^^

Im really open to disillusion my believe in that if anybody could explain me how it should be possible to judge about thoughts without thoughts. There is no way. I mean a meditative pure state of no thought is awesome but nobody (no thought) can long for that and it doesnt even make any difference as long there is no struggle and just acceptence of what is. Not even that. just different thoughts and judgments would exist. It shouldnt be mistaken with that I could mean that if you accept that these are your thoughts they will go away. No. Im just saying every thought is as good as the other cause judgment is always another thought. It like letting the bad personalites not into heaven. Heaven could never exist if it wasnt exactly like life right now 
Just be^^

..... aja and amsterdam is evil^^.. I was also soo detached and it was raining and cold and everything was so bad^^... I was extremely paranoid and thought the birds are hunting me and wanna have my food.(although I had non) 
Like If I was in the same state as these birds and could communicate with them^^.. so weird.


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## backagain

edward_morden said:


> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> no prescription medication and I dont know exactly what mental disorders I had in the past(never went to a psychologist so I can only guess). I can remember that I was my whole life extremely anxious. (especially if Im alone, if Im in the dark and if I exist)
> Already with the age of 7-8 I was thinking Im an experiment or sth and that nothing is real and that its like observed what I do and how I react to stuff.*(like Im lieing in a white room in a virtual state and behind glass windows people with pen and paper writing down what happens.)*
> Besides till now (Im now 18) Im not able to sleep without a light on, cause I see like mild hallucinations if it is just pitch black and I start feeling like my whole life was just this pitch black darkness. Additionally I have to sleep with music on cause I hear frightening noises without it. Its just to quiet and that makes me scared.
> I had ocd since I can remember and I was also my whole life really depressive. *With the age of 7 I guess I got a sickness(dont wanna tell which) but I didnt tell my parents about it cause I wanted that it kills me and so it shouldnt be cured.(it can kill you...) Also I was a bit scared of telling it.* I was lucky and survived till I was 16 and than finally cured it etc. cause at the same time I got these depersonalisation/derealisation and I thought its because of this sickness and if I cure it this depersonalisation/derealisation will go away.
> 
> Besides my life is now like a look in the refrigerator/menu. If I look in it or go to a restaurant etc. I can imagine how every food would taste and can exactly choose if its what I want right now.. or rather if it makes me full but not too full that I feel sick. Its always limited.
> With my life its a bit similar. Like if I wake up I imagine all possible ways of things I could do but they are always the same and not what I want. Everything what I can imagine is just not what I want.
> There are just to fill the time.. to fill me.
> *There is always this longing for that special thing what not exist or I cannot imagine. Like if all this is a lie. All this "life". Im just doing the stuff I do cause im limited to it. *
> I feel like there is something missing what should be there or was there when I was very small, but I dont know what.
> Its like im swimming alone in the middle of a vast ocean.. there is just the ocean on the horizon... I could do everything what is in this vast ocean but I know everything already (even if I didnt do it yet cause everything is the same.. just water) I want something different what isnt there but I know it exists. Its strange.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok first of all you shouldn't ignore REAL problems... This is not some sort of experiment, you are only fooling yourself and no one else. OCD is a REAL problem and LIFE is REAL, why ? because we all have a time limit, we're not gonna be here analyzing the world forever, you're GOING TO DIE EVENTUALLY. The only thing guaranteed in life is death. So please when I hear people say this crap I just think it's psuedo bullshit. Also I'm not sure what sort of "sickness" you thought you may have cured but the reality is you can't cure any real sickness on your own. It's just a creation of your own ocd/hypochondriac mind that you choose to believe, it has nothing to do with reality. You're 18 years old and you've been living inside your head your whole life, don't you think there's going to be a time when you're gonna have to move out and live on your own ? in the real world ?I just can't picture you being productive in life when you have all this PSEUDO BULLSHIT going on in you head. Life demands change, you're just resisting the natural laws of life and regressing deeper into your own impaired cognition.
> 
> Trust me things change for the BETTER if you just allow them to be and go with the energy flow. Also this movie you might enjoy watching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (Im not really angry, sad or whatever :mrgreen: ... Im abit confused that you are saying I was not really sick and that everything what I say is pseudo bullshit but yeah... I really dont care about my thoughts and what I said cause Im detached so .. yes... )
> 
> flower* YOU flower* YOU flower* YOU!!!!!
> Im not hear that you ***** can make fun of me. Im so honest and post all this and ***** just say its pseudo bullshit... you dont even know what im talking about!!!!
> 
> REAL PROBLEMS??? I laugh about all this real problems... oh.. I have no money... oh thats soooo ridicilous.. or oh my girlfriend left.. yeah... whatever.... oh im ugly and nobody likes me.... that are not "real" problems you talk about.. that are flower* mind made illusions... a good career or whatever......
> 
> I know that "I" gonna die so what? You flower* retarded piece of shit... besides my "sickness" got cured by a doctor with hundreds of medications and what ever... it wasnt mental it was physical and a severe REAL sickness... SO SHUT THE flower* UP!!!!! It even really doesnt matter.. I just wanted to state with this that I was always suicidal = depressive...
> 
> Besides I dont think anymore of being observed and living in a virtual reality.. that was when I was 7-8... till maybe 12 or whatever.. You were asking about my past so dont make up stuff what I never said!
> I just wanted to say with that example that I was already very dissociative at a young age.
> 
> I just dont know what "real" Life should be.. what you are talking about... what inside and outside the head is... what productive should be? Real life is to work and earn much money(productive??) and live in this human made thought of society and meaning?Awesome... than I dont want this real life. flower* YOU!!!
> 
> You are just saying what I think is bullshit or has nothing to do with reality!! flower* you.. you flower* esoteric believe in a "soul" and whatever.. in a real me with a free will.. thats ridiculous and pseudo bullshit.
> 
> And if things would change for the better, like you are saying, you are stating that death is the best of all... think about what you are saying.
> 
> Go with the energy flow... as if there would be a way to not go with it....
> 
> Besides you are talking about death.. about not being (i dont believe in death by the way cause I dont believe in myself and that I exist as a separated supernatural entity what could end)
> about nothing... plz can you explain how you can imagine nothing, not being, death? Isnt it more like you are talking about something with no meaning. I mean you are saying there will be death and in fact you are saying that there will be something but nobody can imagine what its like or what it is.
> 
> So your words are pseudo Bullshit.
> 
> Im really open for arguments why my view is wrong etc.. but you are always just like "Im so intellegent and you are flower* wrong and talking pseudobullshit"
> 
> Besides I know the movie but I dont know how it should help? Its a horror movie so do you wanna make me afraid or what? Are you just out of you mind or what? THIS is a self help forum for mental confused people and you flower* ***** just saying everyone is a ***** who dont believe in your retarded believe. No arguments or no .. yeah I see you are delusioned and just cant do anything again it...
> no you are just mean and not very helpful.
Click to expand...

 :lol:

Your view is wrong because you're 18 years old and you don't know shit . You're just some kid from the suburbs who's lived his whole life in his mom's basement and thinks he knows the meaning of life :roll: . yea I used to be 18 too I used to think I knew it all . Why don't you just shut the fuk up, get your shit straight and move on with your life. No One gives a shit about your stupid ideas and thoughts about how you think everything is nothing. It doesn't mean shit in actuality in REALITY and you don't mean shit in REALITY. Go out and survive in the real world, you wouldn't last a fukn day with your mindset, you don't know ANYTHING. You only exist because your mommy feeds you and puts clothes on your back you insignificant c*nt. Once you learn to accept the truth you'll understand what reality is and won't be living in your delusional brain all the time.

You need to go spend some time on the outside where there is no mommy to help you. Where you gotta hustle YOUR ASS you sILLy c*nt


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## edward_morden

So again you insult me. You are calling me silly c*nt? Are you serious? In a selfhelp forum? I never wanted to bring up hatred in somebody. Sorry. 
The only purpose of your post seems to make me feel bad about myself. This didnt work cause every mentioned claim is wrong and I have nothing to feel bad about.

1. of all you dont know the meaning of life so you cant say my suggestion is "wrong". If you knew it you could say why its wrong and what the meaning of life is. I open for arguments and suggestions but you are saying just its wrong cause Im too young or whatever.But I see.. you are just ignorant and think you are superior to me.

2. I dont life in the basement of my mom. I live on my own(even in a different country) and right now studying in one of the best possible colleges possible in my field of interest.
I dont wanna sound now arrogant and that Im so awesome or whatever but please stop claiming stuff what simply isnt true. Just cause you are not able to reach your aims or have that much money you would like, whatever it doesnt mean that I am attached to these ridiculous values.

3. I exist cause my mother gave birth to me and feed me. Yes. thats true. You are very smart. Indeed. I guess you are supernatural and nobody ever had to feed you? Im jealous 

4. silly? I never scored under 130 in any IQ test so I guess im not silly.(different psychologists, not internet^^) I know that you have a 2000IQ and are so much more intellegent(and super wise) than me and everyone else, but definition wise Im not that stupid.

5. Dont talk about an obvious reality and non-reality (where I am supposed to live in^^) if you dont even know what they are. Besides you cant claim I dont live in actual reality. Where do I live if not reality. How could I interact with you if I wouldnt be in "actual reality". Your are funny.

6.


backagain said:


> You only exist because your mommy feeds you and puts clothes on your back you insignificant c*nt.


 Are you so sad cause you managed nothing in life (I guess cause you have a so strong longing for "being somebody important") that you now have to project your hatred against me or what?

7. Is most of by believe grounded on science and logic. Yours seems to be esoteric and magical(but I cant say that cause you dont give me your logic/information). But whatever. If you mention wrong than I guess right is connected with scientific proven or logic? Logic and sciences says there is no individual. Sorry for that 

8. You are ignorant cause you dont accept different views. You want people to live in order of you imagined "right" way and so are blocking progression and variety. There is no real social way you have to live accordingly to. Not everybody has the need to get a "important" human or have much money or whatever. Even if I would be homeless, drug addicted and completely delusioned, there would be no need in telling me that im a silly c*nt who failed in life.

You dont even need to apologize cause I can understand that you are getting a bit sad and angry. This depersonalization is probably very hard for you and you are very hard longing for a "normal" state for being. You think you failed life and now need to project that on me. But he Im also in this depersonalization. So lets be nice again.


----------



## Guest

edward_morden said:


> So again you insult me. You are calling me silly c*nt? Are you serious? In a selfhelp forum? I never wanted to bring up hatred in somebody. Sorry.
> The only purpose of your post seems to make me feel bad about myself. This didnt work cause every mentioned claim is wrong and I have nothing to feel bad about.
> 
> 1. of all you dont know the meaning of life so you cant say my suggestion is "wrong". If you knew it you could say why its wrong and what the meaning of life is. I open for arguments and suggestions but you are saying just its wrong cause Im too young or whatever.But I see.. you are just ignorant and think you are superior to me.
> 
> 2. I dont life in the basement of my mom. I live on my own(even in a different country) and right now studying in one of the best possible colleges possible in my field of interest.
> I dont wanna sound now arrogant and that Im so awesome or whatever but please stop claiming stuff what simply isnt true. Just cause you are not able to reach your aims or have that much money you would like, whatever it doesnt mean that I am attached to these ridiculous values.
> 
> 3. I exist cause my mother gave birth to me and feed me. Yes. thats true. You are very smart. Indeed. I guess you are supernatural and nobody ever had to feed you? Im jealous
> 
> 4. silly? I never scored under 130 in any IQ test so I guess im not silly.(different psychologists, not internet^^) I know that you have a 2000IQ and are so much more intellegent(and super wise) than me and everyone else, but definition wise Im not that stupid.
> 
> 5. Dont talk about an obvious reality and non-reality (where I am supposed to live in^^) if you dont even know what they are. Besides you cant claim I dont live in actual reality. Where do I live if not reality. How could I interact with you if I wouldnt be in "actual reality". Your are funny.
> 
> 6.
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> You only exist because your mommy feeds you and puts clothes on your back you insignificant c*nt.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you so sad cause you managed nothing in life (I guess cause you have a so strong longing for "being somebody important") that you now have to project your hatred against me or what?
> 
> 7. Is most of by believe grounded on science and logic. Yours seems to be esoteric and magical(but I cant say that cause you dont give me your logic/information). But whatever. If you mention wrong than I guess right is connected with scientific proven or logic? Logic and sciences says there is no individual. Sorry for that
> 
> 8. You are ignorant cause you dont accept different views. You want people to live in order of you imagined "right" way and so are blocking progression and variety. There is no real social way you have to live accordingly to. Not everybody has the need to get a "important" human or have much money or whatever. Even if I would be homeless, drug addicted and completely delusioned, there would be no need in telling me that im a silly c*nt who failed in life.
> 
> You dont even need to apologize cause I can understand that you are getting a bit sad and angry. This depersonalization is probably very hard for you and you are very hard longing for a "normal" state for being. You think you failed life and now need to project that on me. But he Im also in this depersonalization. So lets be nice again.
Click to expand...

Science and logic are theories created by people, who you say have no free will. There's so many holes in your own 'logic' (how can someone with no free will come up with a theory? Have logic? ) that it's not even worth starting.


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

i think ed may be a troll.


----------



## edward_morden

........


----------



## edward_morden

no Im not fake but I guess Im wrong here.

Why do you now think Im a troll? Cause you all dont get what Im talking about?
You dont have to believe me and I dont want you to go away from your current believe. I just wanted to discuss and know what your believe is about.

I only learned that you have a believe in a god or a supernatural "me". Thats doesnt help me much. There is no why, or logic, or argument, explanation.

Science and logic tell us that everything is based on actio et reactio. That these thoughts which are in your head are 100% conditioned. (your body =dns, food and how it interacted which the environment) and your thoughts which are what you experienced, learned,.. etc. Your body analysis the experiences etc. that way it has to and how it was programmed. Everything is conditioned and there is no way something (or at least everything "we" seem to perceive) couldnt not be conditioned. You are all just ignorant religious people(religious people are okay but not the ones who say only their believe is true or cant express why it should be true) . Maybe you all should go to the Scientology or any Christianity forum.

IF I talk in the illusionary sense of a supernatural I and YOU I also have to use words like "logic", "intelligence", "science".

But okay if you are all ignorant and now even think Im fake I will leave.

Why do you say Im fake? I just dont get it? Thats why I hate the internet. You never stated a fact, or logic, or explanation or whatever to express what you are meaning with your believe and just said "yeas, you are just wrong." I always stated why I believe certain things and ask for that you could point on the flaws to explain me why thats wrong and yours right. What Im missing etc.

Do you think Im fake cause I do something and Im good at it(my profession, not talking here^^)? Cause I said I dont know what to do cause I know what everything is like etc.? Yes thats right but I still do one thing whole the time, study this and even earn money with this profession. So what? It still not that what Im looking for cause you all didnt get what Im talking about. Im not talking about something you can think of because if it would be that easy I would just get it. But I guess I will leave this forum if everybody stays that conservative.

Maybe just visit it to see how tommy research turned out.


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

yeh thats exacxtly why i think that...

i dont even want to reply, because i know youll just pick away at everything i say, because there is no answer i can give you, that is of my own, because it is all due to my dna and what i have experienced. so in that case infact...

I cannot be held guilty about my words i say next, as its not my fault, its just action and reaction i guess in your eyes, so no hard feelings personally, as there is no personality, just the outcome of some shit i have been conditioned to believe in and communicate with, due to the way ive been brought up.

i think you are fake, because all you have done is pretty much caused controversy, and keep it going, someone tries to give you help, but its not good enough, 
you are so stubborn in your ways, that there is no help for you, if your so smart go and find out the answers yourself, obviously this forum hasnt got anything to offer you, everything so far offered(alot of good advice id say..although i only say that due to something reacting in side of me making me say that..)has been dismissed like a used rubber. You dont want help, you want to stay in your thoughts of action reaction...if thats all you see the world for then i feel sorry for you if your not just here stirring shit for the lolz like a troll....

anyways, im done talking with you, if you are sincere, i wish you the best of luck, but if you are a troll then hahaha you had a goodd run, everyone believed you,your the best, please move to next forum, because people will just start ignoring you(myself included...well the conditioning of my brain will tell me to start ignoring you , because i have been conditioned i guess, to not listen to bullshit shit stirrers who believe in things soo stupid in my conditioned opinion.


hopefully you wont feel insulted as you know its nothing personal, as you have no person as no person(identity) can exist with your logic, and you know what i have said is only the reaction to what you said(action), and the way i have been conditioned in growing up to detect bullshit is uncanny.

so yeh, over and out, and good luck whichever road you choose to stick down, or divert to.


----------



## edward_morden

NumbNeo said:


> anyways, im done talking with you, if you are sincere, i wish you the best of luck, but if you are a troll then hahaha you had a goodd run, everyone believed you,your the best, please move to next forum, because people will just start ignoring you(myself included...well the conditioning of my brain will tell me to start ignoring you , because i have been conditioned i guess, to not listen to bullshit shit stirrers who believe in things soo stupid in my conditioned opinion.


No there is nothing outside the conditioning and so "your brain" will not tell "you" to start ignoring me. I think you dont get what Im saying. Thats all. But yes... a believe in billions of supernatural entities that can interact without any conditioning is more intelligent and not "soo stupid".
You just never thought about conditioning and actio et reactio and now think Im talking about destiny or something like that. Besides Im serious so thanks for the good luck 



NumbNeo said:


> I cannot be held guilty about my words i say next, as its not my fault, its just action and reaction i guess in your eyes, so no hard feelings personally, as there is no personality, just the outcome of some shit i have been conditioned to believe in and communicate with, due to the way ive been brought up.


Sure its "your" fault cause you interacted that way. You just dont get it. Its not like that there is a numbneo beyond this conditioning which cant be fault of what his separated body is doing. NO. Sorry Im not talking about something like that. I just say that everything opens up that way it has to be without any options.
You now think Im talking nonsense and cause of that you react that way and say Im a troll. Thats actio et reactio. You think Im talking about destiny and that there could be a "me" disconnected from my thoughts and body which isnt fault. Its not like I am not fault for my bodys interaction with the rest of the world cause there is no "I" separated from my body.
Sorry. I guess my knowledge of the english language is to limited to be able to explain you what I really mean.

Besides you try to adapt my believe on your believe in a supernatural entity and sure that way it turns out to be stupid nonsense. But I will just accept that you people wont get it as much as a religious guy doesnt get that a believe in god and heaven is not the only possible choice.


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## JessMess

edward you do nothing but waste people's time. It's true, you just want to cause controversy. I can't beleive the amount of time you have to do it. Don't you have a job, or school, anything to do???


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## edward_morden

I said that I go to a good college. Didnt you read my text? Besides Im not wasting peoples time on purpose cause I think its a very interesting topic to talk about. Everybody who wants to talk with me about it made the "choice" to do that. 
I have the possibility to answer quite rapidly on your posts cause I am working right now on a project where Im using the pc. So that allows me to switch back and forth so that I can look if somebody answered my post.

Sure I want a controversy. Not in a quarreling way but in a discussing way. I guess controversy is a debate in which both parties discuss about a certain topic?

Unfortunately this thread is more of a monologue and sometimes some people shout to me "no you silly c*nt, thats wrong and silly" without any reasoning.

Okay. I already understood. You people dont want to talk about philosophic ideas cause you are so concerned about being normal again and function like society demands. Sorry. 
I always thought depersonalized people are more open for new ideas and like to question existence. My fault. Besides it could be that you feel attacked by my believe cause it challenges your individuality. 
Sorry again. You all seem to be just depressive and not the way depersonalized as I am.

So no more silly and challenging philosophic ideas from me, the silly c*nt.


----------



## IQ

edward_morden said:


> I said that I go to a good college. Didnt you read my text? Besides Im not wasting peoples time on purpose cause I think its a very interesting topic to talk about. Everybody who wants to talk with me about it made the "choice" to do that.
> I have the possibility to answer quite rapidly on your posts cause I am working right now on a project where Im using the pc. So that allows me to switch back and forth so that I can look if somebody answered my post.
> 
> Sure I want a controversy. Not in a quarreling way but in a discussing way. I guess controversy is a debate in which both parties discuss about a certain topic?
> 
> Unfortunately this thread is more of a monologue and sometimes some people shout to me "no you silly c*nt, thats wrong and silly" without any reasoning.
> 
> Okay. I already understood. You people dont want to talk about philosophic ideas cause you are so concerned about being normal again and function like society demands. Sorry.
> I always thought depersonalized people are more open for new ideas and like to question existence. My fault. Besides it could be that you feel attacked by my believe cause it challenges your individuality.
> Sorry again. You all seem to be just depressive and not the way depersonalized as I am.
> 
> So no more silly and challenging philosophic ideas from me, the silly c*nt.


1. This is a self help forum for people with depersonalization, not a philosophy forum.

2. Existential questioning is a symptom of this disorder, engaging constantly in ruminations about life is known to prolong DP episodes and is completely unhelpful to recovery.

3. Even if you ask all the questions you want, you will never get an answer.

4. Please understand that many people on here are suffering just as much as you are, and they are only trying to help.

5. Also understand that some people here have recovered and offer their advice, which to me is good advice.

6. You practically hijacked this thread and verbally jumped on someone for saying that they felt better and how in your opinion thats wrong, then you wonder why people are getting their backs up?


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## JessMess

Yeah well I don't give a f*uck what you think about me or anyone else on here, you're just wasting time.


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## Tommygunz

HEY LOOK AT ME, IM CHANGING THE SUBJECT. has anyone seen the movie "THE PROPOSAL"? what an attractive couple those two make. if you could put two celebrities together, who would it be? :lol:


----------



## russo327

wow i havent been on here for a week and its up to 11 pages haha, I havent started tommys recipe yet because i have been drinking every night but im stopping so i can start it. I couldnt find a liquid complex with high enough doses, if you wouldnt mind tommy could you give me the name of yours so i could order it offline?


----------



## backagain

> 4. silly? I never scored under 130 in any IQ test so I guess im not silly.(different psychologists, not internet^^) I know that you have a 2000IQ and are so much more intellegent(and super wise) than me and everyone else, but definition wise Im not that stupid.


I'm not saying you're stupid, you maybe the smartest the person here but still you have no practical sense what use is it ?

The bottom line is you're here to confuse people because you don't have any truth for yourself. To get truth into someone else you have to first find truth inside yourself and you have NONE.



> 2. I dont life in the basement of my mom. I live on my own(even in a different country) and right now studying in one of the best possible colleges possible in my field of interest.
> I dont wanna sound now arrogant and that Im so awesome or whatever but please stop claiming stuff what simply isnt true. Just cause you are not able to reach your aims or have that much money you would like, whatever it doesnt mean that I am attached to these ridiculous values.


So where do you get your money ? What sort of job do you have ? Who pays your internet bills ?

Do you just walk around philosophizing the non meaning of existence and people throw quarters at you ?



> 8. You are ignorant cause you dont accept different views. You want people to live in order of you imagined "right" way and so are blocking progression and variety. There is no real social way you have to live accordingly to. Not everybody has the need to get a "important" human or have much money or whatever. Even if I would be homeless, drug addicted and completely delusioned, there would be no need in telling me that im a silly c*nt who failed in life.


lol and you accept different views ?

So far you haven't accepted anything anyone has to say. You are just a hypocrite, you don't even believe your own thoughts, you said so yourself, nothing makes sense. Because you make no sense.



> 7. Is most of by believe grounded on science and logic. Yours seems to be esoteric and magical(but I cant say that cause you dont give me your logic/information). But whatever. If you mention wrong than I guess right is connected with scientific proven or logic? Logic and sciences says there is no individual. Sorry for that


You are just a reality manipulator, from post to post you just twist the facts. There is no science or logic to your ideas, just the existentialist ramblings of a depressed loser.



> You dont even need to apologize cause I can understand that you are getting a bit sad and angry. This depersonalization is probably very hard for you and you are very hard longing for a "normal" state for being. You think you failed life and now need to project that on me. But he Im also in this depersonalization. So lets be nice again.


I'm not going to apologize to you . You are a manipulative personality, I can see through you. Whoever you think you're trying to play, you're only gonna find out you're playing yourself. You're only fooling yourself cause NO ONE ELSE CARES.



> 5. Dont talk about an obvious reality and non-reality (where I am supposed to live in^^) if you dont even know what they are. Besides you cant claim I dont live in actual reality. Where do I live if not reality. How could I interact with you if I wouldnt be in "actual reality". Your are funny.


Where do you live ? You live in your own mind, existing from one impractical thought to the next.


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## JessMess

I almost saw a movie today. I haven't seen a movie in a long time. They are expensive


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> The bottom line is you're here to confuse people because you don't have any truth for yourself. To get truth into someone else you have to first find truth inside yourself and you have NONE.


I dont want to get my truth into someone else. I just feel like I could be insane and my thoughts are just to good to be true. Im afraid of following them completely and turn shizophrenic,more insane. Im just trying to find approve for it or somebody who sees the logic. I do this all the time. I ask everybody I know about that and everybody just seem to not get it and tell me that its wrong. Or just ignores me after I explained him that^^.
I know, now I should maybe conclude that if like everybody else...

(only some very few people I read/heard from e.g. Daniel C Dennett (freedom evolves, darwins dangerous idea,..) or Charles Haanel, Rick linchitz seem to be able to let go from this, from my perspective not logical and sad believe of a supernatural individuality and separation. But probably I just interpreted my believe in this books etc and am not able to see my own ignorance)

...says that Im wrong and that there is something supernatural in everybody or whatever that Im probably totally crazy and that my thoughts are absolutely not logical. 
The believe and the attached experience are just too strong and real to forget all this. To just let go from everything and dont think about all these things which I need to think of.
I just feel like its everything there is. There is nothing to think about without these thoughts.
It seems like Im on the verge on something. If I just accept the truth I generated everything will change. It seems like that. But Im afraid and dont want to decide^^.
I just experienced to much insanity to move without research.



backagain said:


> 2. I dont life in the basement of my mom. I live on my own(even in a different country) and right now studying in one of the best possible colleges possible in my field of interest.
> I dont wanna sound now arrogant and that Im so awesome or whatever but please stop claiming stuff what simply isnt true. Just cause you are not able to reach your aims or have that much money you would like, whatever it doesnt mean that I am attached to these ridiculous values.
> 
> 
> 
> So where do you get your money ? What sort of job do you have ? Who pays your internet bills ?
> 
> Do you just walk around philosophizing the non meaning of existence and people throw quarters at you ?
Click to expand...

No, lol^^. but that would be pretty awesome^^. Actually Im a painter(realist) and studing on top-notch academy/college in florence,italy and yes earn some money with that profession too. Not much cause I need so much time for the studing. There would be no purpose in studing there and then just work and never go there. My parents pay me pretty much everything right now, but hey, they have to do that (laws says if you had a higher education you have to pay also a higher education for your children... I dont know if its the same in the US) and besides they like to do that cause they wanna give me some opportunities etc. and have enough money to be able to give me the possibilities. 
I think there is no need for me to explain you why my parents fund me my education. It doesnt really matter. Its my life. I know Im a loser, cause I am getting money from my parents to be able to study, and I'm an insignificant c*nt but yes it really doesnt mean so much for me to be "someone". Mainly cause I dont know what "somebody" means^^. Probalby if I would believe in a supernatural "me" I would just work 24/7 to become the richest and greatest guy ever but yes. Now it really doesnt make so much sense to me.



backagain said:


> lol and you accept different views ?


How can I accept something what I dont know? I mean you never explained me your view. I did at least try to communicate my one. (or maybe Im just dont see your explanation because of pure ignorance and delusion. but if its that late and Im already completely detached from "reality" there is no way to help me anymore. ^^
I mean it seems to be the only logical thought and the only one which explains everything as beautiful. Without negativity. Just bliss.



backagain said:


> ou are just a reality manipulator, from post to post you just twist the facts. There is no science or logic to your ideas, just the existentialist ramblings of a depressed loser.


Okay Im a loser. I failed to obtain the life you are dreaming of. But, sure I seem to believe there is logic and science.

Example... people say existential thoughts are SYMPTOMS of depersonalization... Okay so these thoughts are conditioned but the "good" thoughts are mine? Thats ridiculous. All my thoughts are me and there is non that isnt me and which is bad. Everything is conditioned and everything is a "symptom" of something else. Everything what is science or logic is based on actio et reactio and also my believe is 100% based on actio et reactio.

I never twisted any facts. I just approached different methods to explain the same thing but still you didnt get what Im talking about.

I think its funny that you keep calling me "loser" etc. I mean yes probably you are right but in fact these words are insulting and not very constructive. 
Just dont talk to me if you think Im so distressing, or do you feel so much better if you can run down other people?

In the end I now know that even depersonalized people dont understand me.
I guess now I will just keep it by myself. lol


----------



## backagain

> I dont want to get my truth into someone else. I just feel like I could be insane and my thoughts are just to good to be true. *Im afraid of following them completely and turn shizophrenic,more insane*. Im just trying to find approve for it or somebody who sees the logic. I do this all the time. I ask everybody I know about that and everybody just seem to not get it and tell me that its wrong. Or just ignores me after I explained him that^^.
> I know, now I should maybe conclude that if like everybody else...
> 
> (only some very few people I read/heard from e.g. Daniel C Dennett (freedom evolves, darwins dangerous idea,..) or Charles Haanel, Rick linchitz seem to be able to let go from this, from my perspective not logical and sad believe of a supernatural individuality and separation. But probably I just interpreted my believe in this books etc and am not able to see my own ignorance)
> 
> ...says that Im wrong and that there is something supernatural in everybody or whatever that Im probably totally crazy and that my thoughts are absolutely not logical.
> The believe and the attached experience are just too strong and real to forget all this. To just let go from everything and dont think about all these things which I need to think of.
> I just feel like its everything there is. There is nothing to think about without these thoughts.
> It seems like Im on the verge on something. If I just accept the truth I generated everything will change. It seems like that. But Im afraid and dont want to decide^^.
> I just experienced to much insanity to move without research.


You're obsessing and you have fear. Typical of someone who has anxiety/ocd. Right now you're perpetuating a stressful response on your nervous system with your obsessive existential thoughts. Don't you realize you're leading yourself up to a possible panic attack/stronger depersonalization symptoms? You need to learn to just be and stop being so obsessive over understanding everything because you *never* will. That's the thing about philosophy there are no "answers" they are just thoughts without substance. Maybe it's time you realize this ?



> No, lol^^. but that would be pretty awesome^^. *Actually Im a painter(realist) and studing on top-notch academy/college in florence,italy and yes earn some money with that profession too*. Not much cause I need so much time for the studing. There would be no purpose in studing there and then just work and never go there. My parents pay me pretty much everything right now, but hey, they have to do that (laws says if you had a higher education you have to pay also a higher education for your children... I dont know if its the same in the US) and besides they like to do that cause they wanna give me some opportunities etc. and have enough money to be able to give me the possibilities.
> I think there is no need for me to explain you why my parents fund me my education. It doesnt really matter. Its my life. I know Im a loser, cause I am getting money from my parents to be able to study, and I'm an insignificant c*nt but yes it really doesnt mean so much for me to be "someone". Mainly cause I dont know what "somebody" means^^. Probalby if I would believe in a supernatural "me" I would just work 24/7 to become the richest and greatest guy ever but yes. Now it really doesnt make so much sense to me.


Not sure as to the validity of your claims, in one thread you say you are from Austria and now you say you are in italy studying art. So anyways it doesn't matter but I have trouble believing someone over the internet.



> *How can I accept something what I dont know? I mean you never explained me your view. I did at least try to communicate my one. (or maybe Im just dont see your explanation because of pure ignorance and delusion. but if its that late and Im already completely detached from "reality" there is no way to help me anymore. *^^
> I mean it seems to be the only logical thought and the only one which explains everything as beautiful. Without negativity. Just bliss.


Anyone who can perceive that aspect about himself is far from detached from reality. I can't explain my views directly to you, I can only communicate them with words over the internet. I specifically encode those messages with different words and sentence structures to try to incite a meaning. The meaning however is going to be_ dependent _on your own ability to _decode_ the messages. (your perception of who I am, your ideas behind the words i use, and how it relates to your mind). It's just a form of communication, there are different levels of communication.



> Okay* Im a loser. I failed to obtain the life you are dreaming of*. But, sure I seem to believe there is logic and science.
> 
> *Example... people say existential thoughts are SYMPTOMS of depersonalization... Okay so these thoughts are conditioned but the "good" thoughts are mine? Thats ridiculous.* All my thoughts are me and there is non that isnt me and which is bad. Everything is conditioned and everything is a "symptom" of something else. Everything what is science or logic is based on actio et reactio and also my believe is 100% based on actio et reactio.
> 
> I never twisted any facts. I just approached different methods to explain the same thing but still you didnt get what Im talking about.
> 
> *I think its funny that you keep calling me "loser" etc. I mean yes probably you are right but in fact these words are insulting and not very constructive.
> Just dont talk to me if you think Im so distressing, or do you feel so much better if you can run down other people?*
> 
> In the end I now know that even depersonalized people dont understand me.
> I guess now I will just keep it by myself. lol


You know what's funny ? You complaining about others insulting you when you insult them. I guess you really are ignorant.

The existentialist thoughts associated with dp/dr have nothing to do with being conditioned and neither do your "good" thoughts. You're missing the point. There are HEALTHY ways to think and there are UNHEALTHY ways to think. You see when you don't realize the healthy ways to think then you end up following the unhealthy ways to think like you are *now*. This is because you are lacking some vital meaning in your own life on account of dp/dr which creates this perpetual search for existential meaning.

So regardless of them being conditioned or not they are going to have an effect on your mental health. Obsessive thoughts are associated with unhealthy ways of thought. As are overly paranoid patterns of thought. So If you don't know that then you really are lost. You're the one who's gonna have to live with yourself and thinking about abstract existentialist concepts isn't going to help you stay grounded.* DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ? DO YOU ? *

Maybe you have an attention disorder where you can't focus your mind enough to realize things on a practical level. Instead over time you develop a hyperfocus on certain topics that you find the most important or most interesting such as the philosophy of life.

You know you could use that intelligence you have towards more productive aspects of your life rather than obsessively hyperfocusing on existentialist thought. I say this because you sound exactly like me a while back, when I used to obsessively ruminate in non practical thought searching for existence. That combined with an alarming rise in fear gave me dp/dr over and over again which led me back to 0. Trust me you're not alone in your views, what you're saying is nothing new.. it's been explained in many philosophies one being BUDDHISM. I understand everything you're saying I just don't see the significance of it because it doesn't mean anything to me right now in the conscious moment where I have to live.

But i'm sure you think you're special in your views and that you're some original philosopher who no one understands.. :lol:

"nirvana" look it up, that's what you're trying to achieve but you won't achieve it because you're too ignorant of your ownself.

No more .. I'm done with this guy :evil:


----------



## DownTheRabbitHole

Backagain, you rock my socks.
your like me, but only a good few months ahead of me interlectually and more wise, and definately have better ways at conveying your points than i do.


----------



## edward_morden

backagain said:


> You're obsessing and you have fear. Typical of someone who has anxiety/ocd. Right now you're perpetuating a stressful response on your nervous system with your obsessive existential thoughts. Don't you realize you're leading yourself up to a possible panic attack/stronger depersonalization symptoms? You need to learn to just be and stop being so obsessive over understanding everything because you *never* will. That's the thing about philosophy there are no "answers" they are just thoughts without substance. Maybe it's time you realize this ?


You dont get it. my knowing beyond it is beyond thoughts. 
(I read (and I guess everybody experienced it) that if you do something very often it gets subconscious and there is no way more to decide if you should do it or not. There is no way more to find out if its right or wrong cause the subconscious isnt judging and the only part of the brain that is judging is the conscious consciousness. 
Or do you know the quote of Aristotle: "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit."
I know there are answers. I dont assume it. I completely know that. Like I already have the answer but just have to look at it.



backagain said:


> Not sure as to the validity of your claims, in one thread you say you are from Austria and now you say you are in italy studying art. So anyways it doesn't matter but I have trouble believing someone over the internet.


I said that Im from austria and so my mother tongue is german and not english. I moved from austria to florence,italy to study. There is no contradiction in what Im saying.



backagain said:


> You know what's funny ? You complaining about others insulting you when you insult them. I guess you really are ignorant.


Im so negative. Im ignorant, silly, a c*nt, a fake and a troll. I guess I found a new identity.



backagain said:


> But i'm sure you think you're special in your views and that you're some original philosopher who no one understands.. :lol:


No I dont think Im a original philosopher. I dont think im significant or special. Im well aware that every thought I have origins from somewhere. Im well aware of buddhismus etc. but in fact all buddhist people I know are talking of karma(and so options and free will) and a self(individuality). Karma doesnt exist cause there is no good and bad and every buddhist guy I know could just go watch BigBrother and it would make no difference. All this buddhist just dont know about a state without a self and so have again to bring up a supernatural self.



backagain said:


> "nirvana" look it up, that's what you're trying to achieve but you won't achieve it because you're too ignorant of your ownself.


Thats funny. In fact nobody can achieve nirvana. Nirvana means the realization of the non existent self. If this realization happens no one is there to achieve it. 
But I guess you dont get. 
Only cause you read maybe a book about buddha and meditated for 10min it doesnt mean you get anything.



backagain said:


> So regardless of them being conditioned or not they are going to have an effect on your mental health. Obsessive thoughts are associated with unhealthy ways of thought. As are overly paranoid patterns of thought. So If you don't know that then you really are lost. You're the one who's gonna have to live with yourself and thinking about abstract existentialist concepts isn't going to help you stay grounded.* DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ? DO YOU ? *


Thats the problem. Your missing the acceptance towards what is. Im still thinking you are blind and dont see what really is. I guess that means I dont understand it. 
Besides you want from me to forget everything and do something else, what you are doing. For me it looks like you are believing in magic.
Or nobody wants to tell me what really is.

Just think logically. Imagine you would be me and you would be the one who is obsessive thinking. One day I come to you and tell you "Hey man, your are obsessive thinking of stuff that doesnt make any sense and is simply wrong, stop that because thats the cause for your fear and mental unhealthiness. Just stop."
It would be a very abnormal reaction of yourself (only if the believe is very weak it would be normal) if you would then answer:
"Yeah, you are right. I know Im thinking to much. besides yeah you have no arguments for why my thoughts should be wrong but now I really believe you that its that way.
Now I know that Im believing in a wrong believe and nothing is left. I lost the wrong one but also I havent gotten the right one."

Then nothing is left. Then nothing can be explained or judged about anymore cause there is no philosophy that sets the rules.
That would awesome but I just dont want again another philosophy. I dont want your magic and not all the other nonsense.
I dont want my nonsense and just perceive and dont judge. That would be eternal bliss.

That helped me. I thought your post was again nonsense but thats a good point.

Just stop posting.. just stop talking to me.

If you will answer I will need to answer and everything will go on forever. 150 is a good post count. Let this topic die.

Besides.. if my obsessive thinking is so bad, what are you doing in a selfhelp depersonalization forum? Why do you not just ignore it and dont think about depersonalization?

Whatever... its finished.

Thanks for all the answers and whatever.


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## backagain

Man I have some poor sleep habits I have class tomorrow at 10 am and I've been sleeping during the day it sucks. I wish I could just sleep 8 hours and be awake 16 hours but I usually stay awake for at least 24 hours then crash hard. I think i'm a natural born tweaker during the night, I just can't turn off my minds power level. when i wake up during the day i'll be really slow and drag myself for 4 hours then I'll start to pick up gradually to a point where I'm just in tweaker mode just non stop energy and I just walk around fukin shadow boxing and doing pushups pretending i'm some sort of professional fighter, IT'S CRAZY cuz i feel like i'm high on speed haha

Anyone know anything about circadian rythmes ? I just can't seem to get mine in order. I've tried ambien, weed, melatonin, and otc sleep meds, the only thing that seemed to work was the unisom but over time it isn't good for you. man i wish i had something to do right now, it sucks being locked in a vacancy with no one around who seems to care. I feel like i'm in prison when i'm in my house and I feel like I'm surrounded by machines when i'm outside. The world just keeps on movinng and i just keep viewing it from a distant space like wow this is it huh, this is what it's all about ? pretty empty man. It's like I have to constantly keep fighting an uphill battle going against the grain.

I just want to move to the wilderness or a forest and just hang out living off the land and learning the way of the wild.
That's so easy to say rite now, i don't even know what i'm getting into but I know i could do it if I really meant it. I know I have to do it if I ever want to feel more than this.

Sorry i went off on a tagent there


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## DownTheRabbitHole

wtf just happened there backagain?
you getting all emotional on us?

doesnt seem like your normal self, or you trying to portray a hidden point i cant seem to unravel now, due to being too stoned, and trying to over think what you said.

but if you want some company like will ferrel is doing with bear grylls on the new show, id b up for living off the land and shit, im not bad at fishing, and one of the best people to have with you on a camping trip, and ive watched so much survival shit that i reckon i could do it too.
or if you meant down the road of getting a house, well farm, and having land to grow on and stuff for food and supplies, then i couldnt go down that route, as its too cost expensive, and ultimately your still under the hand of the powers that be


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## Oggy1

5 years? Jeez.. somebody buy this guy a cake (no sarcasm intended)

I know exactly what you feel like.. I live everyday feeling the exact same way, as though the previous day meant nothing and my state of mind just doesn't seem to change. Everyday, the same sh*t


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## backagain

That's why everything has to start now, whatever route i take always begins from the point of now. Our concept of time is tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow then think about the past but we neglect today as if tomorrow was somehow more important.

Numb Neo I was just expressing my true self, I could sit here and act like i don't have emotions and that i'm above them but even a hawk that soars high above the ground has to come down to drink the water to live to fly another day. 
(Not saying I'm high like a hawk, just a metaphor)

I have emotions and thoughts that aren't so "high" I don't want to neglect them because they are just as much as part of me as everything else is. I like to think of myself as everything whether I think of myself as a bum or some prince it doesn't make a difference in the reality of my being. The key is to maintain a balance where everything is not gaining too much power over me as a whole. Just like the checks and balances in the U.S. government system prevent one branch from gaining too much power over the other to prevent control of the whole country. Except with thoughts emotions and ideas relating to me as a person.

NumbNeo I was talking about living on my own and just learning to live as one with nature , to me it's a rite of passage to something greater. In a sense that it gives me great joy to know that I can survive without the necessities that man attaches himself to in the western materialistic consumer 9-5 make money to survive driven society.

I could be a free man out there in the wild but it's something that is earned every step of the way. Yea man definitely open to the idea and if you would like to come a long then that would be way cool, In fact I think kenny (surfingisfun) is already planning something to that extent and he invited me to come along with another dude who I haven't met but am told is cool. You are definitely cool, there is no denying that so if you seek the experience i'm definitely inviting you. I have a book that I've been reading that explains in great detail just what it is you need to survive out there on your own, the guy who wrote it actually lived in the wilderness with his family for I think years and he came up with a great deal of knowledge a long the way.

That is something else man, just imagine it, of course we would need some dank buds to bring a long with us for the journey. Eventually we wouldn't even need them though because our minds would be so much more enlightened just by breaking free from the artificial boxed in reality that we live in and experiencing the truth of our being by going back to so called "primitive" ways of life where we are one with the earth.


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## edward_morden

Hey backagain... just wanted to reflect your words on yourself. This whole post is not about me. Its about you.



backagain said:


> Keep this quote in your mind
> 
> *We see things not as they are but as we are*




Did also you keep it in YOUR mind? I hope so 



backagain said:


> *I say this because you sound exactly like me a while back*, when I used to obsessively ruminate in non practical thought searching for existence.


Its not me you are perceiving, its your own self that you are projecting on me. To understand that harsh claim, just read this post:

Question:



backagain said:


> man i wish i had something to do right now, it sucks being locked in a vacancy *with no one around who seems to care. I feel like i'm in prison when i'm in my house and I feel like I'm surrounded by machines when i'm outside. The world just keeps on movinng and i just keep viewing it from a distant space like wow this is it huh, this is what it's all about ? pretty empty man.* It's like I have to constantly keep fighting an uphill battle going against the grain.


Answer:



backagain said:


> So please when I hear people say this crap I just think it's psuedo bullshit.





backagain said:


> It doesn't mean shit in actuality in REALITY *and you don't mean shit in REALITY.*





backagain said:


> You only exist because your mommy feeds you and puts clothes on your back *you insignificant c*nt.*





backagain said:


> I *just can't picture you being productive in life* when you have all this PSEUDO BULLSHIT going on in you head.





backagain said:


> There is no science or logic to your ideas, just the existentialist *ramblings of a depressed loser.*





backagain said:


> But i'm sure you think you're special in your views and that you're some original philosopher who no one understands.. :lol:


I *NEVER* mentioned that I feel "insignificant", "like a loser", "like somebody unproductive", etc.
You just perceived it without any connection to what I was saying. So if I keep your favourite quote in mind, I now can conclude... YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF!
Lets continue and see if thats just an exception or if we can use your quote again!

Question:



backagain said:


> I just want to move to the wilderness or a forest and just hang out living off the land and learning the way of the wild.





backagain said:


> NumbNeo I was talking about living on my own and just learning to live as one with nature , to me it's a rite of passage to something greater. In a sense that it gives me great joy to know that I can survive without the necessities that man attaches himself to in the western materialistic consumer 9-5 make money to survive driven society. .......
> Eventually we wouldn't even need them though because our minds would be so much more enlightened just by breaking free from the artificial boxed in reality that we live in and experiencing the truth of our being by going back to so called "primitive" ways of life where we are one with the earth.


Answer:



backagain said:


> Your view is wrong because you're 18 years old and you don't know shit . *You're just some kid from the suburbs who's lived his whole life in his mom's basement and thinks he knows the meaning of life* :roll: .





backagain said:


> *Go out and survive in the real world, you wouldn't last a fukn day with your mindset, you don't know ANYTHING.* You only exist because your mommy feeds you and puts clothes on your back you insignificant c*nt.





backagain said:


> *You need to go spend some time on the outside where there is no mommy to help you*. Where you gotta hustle YOUR ASS you sILLy c*nt





backagain said:


> Where do you live ? You live in your own mind, existing from one impractical thought to the next.


Mmm... again. I *NEVER* said that I want to be able to live on my own. That I want to be able to survive on my own and not be dependend on the


backagain said:


> western materialistic consumer 9-5 make money to survive driven society.


Sooo... you are projected yourself on me and assume I want to go into the jungle to find enlightment. You created this believe that a man has to be able to live on his own cause if he doesnt he isnt living and just surviving.
So I conclude: ITS YOU WHO WANNA DO THAT!

But hey... lets go on. There is much more to find. MUCH more.

Question:



backagain said:


> That is something else man, just imagine it, of course we would need some dank buds to bring a long with us for the journey. Eventually we wouldn't even need them though because *our minds would be so much more enlightened just by breaking free from the artificial boxed in reality that we live in and experiencing the truth of our being by going back to so called "primitive" ways of life where we are one with the earth.*


Answer:



backagain said:


> You need to learn to just be and stop being so obsessive over understanding everything because you never will. That's the thing about philosophy there are no "answers" they are just thoughts without substance. Maybe it's time you realize this ?





backagain said:


> "nirvana" look it up, that's what you're trying to achieve but you won't achieve it because you're too ignorant of your ownself.
> 
> No more .. I'm done with this guy :evil:


You are the one who is looking for something to attach to himself to become something better. The one who thinks he has to do something(go into the wild etc.) to find out about the truth. You are the one who is done with himself. Who cant accept himself.

Question:



backagain said:


> Numb Neo *I was just expressing my true self*, *I could sit here and act like i don't have emotions and that i'm above them but even a hawk that soars high above the ground has to come down to drink the water to live to fly another day.*





backagain said:


> I have emotions and thoughts that aren't so "high" I don't want to neglect them because they are just as much as part of me as everything else is. I like to think of myself as everything whether I think of myself as a bum or some prince it doesn't make a difference in the reality of my being. The key is to maintain a balance where everything is not gaining too much power over me as a whole.


Answer:



backagain said:


> *You are just a reality manipulator, from post to post you just twist the facts.* There is no science or logic to your ideas, just the existentialist ramblings of a depressed loser.





backagain said:


> I'm not going to apologize to you . *You are a manipulative personality, I can see through you.
> 
> Whoever you think you're trying to play, you're only gonna find out you're playing yourself.
> 
> You're only fooling yourself cause NO ONE ELSE CARES.*


Man, thats like a thriller. So finally you played yourself. Good job! And man.. you even thought of the end! HERE WE GO!!



backagain said:


> The bottom line is you're here to confuse people because you don't have any truth for yourself. To get truth into someone else you have to first find truth inside yourself and you have NONE.


_We see things not as they are but as we are_.. because everything is one. HAPPY END!


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## Tommygunz

not takin any sides....... BUT THAT WAS FREAKIN EPIC!!!


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## backagain

That's all in _your_ mind not mine.

That's typical of a _narcissistic_ personality trait which I suspect you have. 
You created that to prove something to _yourself_ , You must have felt _left out_ because I didn't answer your previous bullshit post. :roll: and now you're eager for more attention.

Keep trying to convince yourself of your pseudo nonsense. You're only fooling _yourself_.

The _thing_ is you _mentioned that you were ugly and a loser_ and I used those clues as a hint to a poor self esteem and a poor self esteem can be associated with depression/anxiety. I didn't project that out of nowhere...* YOU mentioned it yourself.*

In your own words..



edward_morden said:


> no prescription medication and I dont know exactly what mental disorders I had in the past(never went to a psychologist so I can only guess). *I can remember that I was my whole life extremely anxious. (especially if Im alone, if Im in the dark and if I exist)*





edward_morden said:


> *REAL PROBLEMS??? I laugh about all this real problems... oh.. I have no money... oh thats soooo ridicilous.. or oh my girlfriend left.. yeah... whatever.... oh im ugly and nobody likes me.... that are not "real" problems you talk about.. that are flower* mind made illusions... a good career or whatever......*





edward_morden said:


> I know that "I" gonna die so what? You flower* retarded piece of shit... besides my "sickness" got cured by a doctor with hundreds of medications and what ever... it wasnt mental it was physical and a severe REAL sickness... SO SHUT THE flower* UP!!!!! It even really doesnt matter..* I just wanted to state with this that I was always suicidal = depressive...*


*You see I didn't need to project that onto you from myself because* *you already proved it yourself.*

*Maybe I did see things in you that I saw in myself* but I am also a lot of different things and _not just* this or that*_, That i _may_ have seen in you. You should keep that in mind bud.

Also this quote was taken out of context.



> *with no one around who seems to care. I feel like i'm in prison when i'm in my house and I feel like I'm surrounded by machines when i'm outside. The world just keeps on movinng and i just keep viewing it from a distant space like wow this is it huh, this is what it's all about ? pretty empty man.*


[/quote]

This is with regards to the system around me. You took that completely out of context. My philosophy is that we are imprisoned by "the system". I just reflected my personal attitude to the whole western way of life where people drive to work in their metal coffins and come home to their "entertainment" which is basically just a form of mass brainwashing and propaganda for "the system."

You are reflecting the personality of an *egotistical narcissist* *Obsessive* *Compulsive*

*Why else would you go out of your way to connect all these things together to prove something against me ?*

*Instead of letting go, you proceeded to try to prove something that doesn't exist in reality.*

*Good job dave man*

LOOK they even made a MOVIE about you :lol:


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## edward_morden

haha... whatever. I never mentioned that I think Im ugly or a loser.

If you mean this(if you mean anything else plz quote.. I guess you wont find anything!):



edward_morden said:


> REAL PROBLEMS??? I laugh about all this real problems... oh.. I have no money... oh thats soooo ridicilous.. or oh my girlfriend left.. yeah... whatever.... oh im ugly and nobody likes me.... that are not "real" problems you talk about.. that are flower* mind made illusions... a good career or whatever......


than you probably distorted it. First of all I have all the money I need cause I get it from my parents. You remember.. thats why Im a loser. My girlfriend didnt left cause I dont even have one at the moment  ... etc.... everything was just examples of typical "normal" problems which I hear all the time from the people, radio, tv etc.
Iguess Im not beautiful but I really dont care about it and nobody likes me.. I hope not^^... .. a good career?.. man, everything what I wanted(thoughts) to achieve(realistic things which could have been achieved by now) I got and right now Im in a real nice college studing the thing I most like.. 
I said that these "real" problems are not interesting for me. Im not sad about THE way life is unfolding. Im just longing for something unthinkable.^^

depression and anxiety =/= feeling ugly or like a loser. I felt anxious since I can remember(already with 4-5 years) and depressive I guess since I got that sickness with about 8 years.(or even before cause of the anxiety.. but I guess at that time I thought its normal to be afraid of everything if you are small, young and stupid^^ and wasnt so depressed about that)



backagain said:


> This is with regards to the system around me. You took that completely out of context. My philosophy is that we are imprisoned by "the system". I just reflected my personal attitude to the whole western way of life where people drive to work in their metal coffins and come home to their "entertainment" which is basically just a form of mass brainwashing and propaganda for "the system."


You are the one which is completely brainwashed. Not "we". You believe in all this things like the importance of being significant, or being beautiful, or having a good carrer, or living on his own without being feed by miss mama or the "bad western society". 
Go climb the Mount Everest etc. if you dont like the western society. Nobody forces you to life here with "us". You dont have to be hypnotized by the entertainment. Just dont watch TV whatever.

So no.... thats not a valid point. You are just projecting. I dont wanna convince myself and I dont want your attention. Did you forgot? You are insignificant! 
I dont want anything bad and dont wanna insult you.
But whatever... I wish you a good life!

edit:



backagain said:


> I just want to say you're not as smart as you think and from now on I think you should know that anything you have to say is losing it's credibility with every post.


Just wanted to make clear that I didnt say that what you are claiming!  
Besides.. thats not a game that I have to win or could loose. I dont care for credibility or whatever. Just wanted to assure that you get that Im not saying what you are think to perceive.


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## backagain

edward_morden said:


> haha... whatever. I never mentioned that I think Im ugly or a loser.
> 
> If you mean this(if you mean anything else plz quote.. I guess you wont find anything!):
> 
> 
> 
> edward_morden said:
> 
> 
> 
> REAL PROBLEMS??? I laugh about all this real problems... oh.. I have no money... oh thats soooo ridicilous.. or oh my girlfriend left.. yeah... whatever.... oh im ugly and nobody likes me.... that are not "real" problems you talk about.. that are flower* mind made illusions... a good career or whatever......
> 
> 
> 
> than you probably distorted it. First of all I have all the money I need cause I get it from my parents. You remember.. thats why Im a loser. My girlfriend didnt left cause I dont even have one at the moment  ... etc.... everything was just examples of typical "normal" problems which I hear all the time from the people, radio, tv etc.
> Iguess Im not beautiful but I really dont care about it and nobody likes me.. I hope not^^... .. a good career?.. man, everything what I wanted(thoughts) to achieve I got and right now Im in a real awesome college studing the thing I most like..
> I said that these "real" problems are not interesting for me. Im not sad about the way life is unfolding. Im just longing for something unthinkable.^^
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is with regards to the system around me. You took that completely out of context. My philosophy is that we are imprisoned by "the system". I just reflected my personal attitude to the whole western way of life where people drive to work in their metal coffins and come home to their "entertainment" which is basically just a form of mass brainwashing and propaganda for "the system."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are the one which is completely brainwashed. Not "we". You believe in all this things like the importance of being significant, or being beautiful, or having a good carrer, or living on his own without being feed by miss mama or the "bad western society".
> Go climb the Mount Everest etc. if you dont like the western society. Nobody forces you to life here with "us". You dont have to be hypnotized by the entertainment. Just dont watch TV whatever.
> 
> So no.... thats not a valid point. You are just projecting. I dont wanna convince myself and I dont want your attention. Did you forgot? You are insignificant!
> I dont want anything bad and dont wanna insult you.
> But whatever... I wish you a good life!
> 
> edit:
> 
> 
> 
> backagain said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to say you're not as smart as you think and from now on I think you should know that anything you have to say is losing it's credibility with every post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just wanted to make clear that I didnt say that what you are claiming!
> 
> Besides.. thats not a game that I have to win or could loose. I dont care for credibility or whatever. Just wanted to assure that you get that Im not saying what you are think to perceive.
Click to expand...

Yea you figured it out man! congratulations you can take off your tinfoil hat now... :roll:


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## edward_morden

I dont want anything bad and dont wanna insult you. If I did Im really sorry. I kinda wanted to help and also I found out abit more about myself.
I project my hatred on everybody I guess. Im the single problem in my life. I mean my thinking process. I hope it will change and everything will be perceived as beautiful!
I mean even the perception of my thinking process as not good is already a bad projection. Its a vicious circle! 
But whatever... I wish you a good life!

thanks for the quote by the way.


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## backagain

My personal belief is that you are retarded to no end..

i'm sure others can agree

but anywaaayzzzz... GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!










I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!


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## backagain

My personal belief is that you are retarded to no end..

i'm sure others can agree

but anywaaayzzzz... GOOD NEWS EVERYONE!










Good News Everyone!

I've invented a device which makes you read this in your head, in my voice!


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## JessMess

I'm using the word FUCK to change the subject in this thread.
Merci.


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## Constantine

I stumbled across this thread about 25 minutes ago, I don't think I fully read a single one of ed's posts..... althought there is a lot of SH*T in them, there is some decent logical reasoning. He describes a deterministic system of the universe, meaning that everything happens as a result of something that happened before. Not sure who came up with the concept of ommism, but it means that everything is one... everything interacts with everything else and through that you lose free will. If you consider people to just be genetically programmed machines it becomes much easier to imagine. Time is linear (ignore space-time) and therefore on a 1 set of events can occur at a particular point in time. 
Although determinism fits in with the big bang, big bang doesn't quite fit with determinism. It's like saying what was the first step in this chain reaction that we are a part of and have no control over. SO WE ARE ALL 1. not just the people but absolutely everything that exists.

backagain.... don't try to help people like that you will always piss each other off. (said outside the deterministic frame (paradox)).


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## jaynon

arguing over the internet is like running in the special olympics. even if you win, you're still a tard

:lol:


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## Oggy1

russo327 said:


> I feel everyday that goes by never actually happens. I dont feel like ill ever get out of this someone needs to find the flower* cure!!!


Sometimes I feel realer when I'm actually dreaming than in real life.. its hard to explain and I don't know if others get this but its how I feel at times lol


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## Mario

Hello oggy1
That's perfectly normal.As i could see from some sites about DP/DR,including wikipedia the symptoms of DP/DR lessen during sleep because of an activity reduction in the pre-frontal cortex of the brain.
I can asure you that i feel exactly the same.


----------

