# dp triggering pictures



## Elrohir (Oct 28, 2006)

Hello !
There is a photographing technique called HDR and such pictures make me feel dp'ed. Here you can take a look at several hdr pictures click. 
Goes that for you too? Most intense for me are the ones shot in the dark containing artificial light.


----------



## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

gosh.
Just gosh. interesting. :?


----------



## Guest (Jan 25, 2007)

Top find mate, thanks










HDR (High dynamic range rendering) effects have been in computer games for a while now. You can see the different when it?s on and off in this game called ?Far Cry?.

This photo affected me quite badly: (Could trigger that?s why it?s a url)

__
https://flic.kr/p/369223220


She just look so fake, it?s what I?d expect in future computer games; just look at some of the previews of the new Geforce 8800 card in action: http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce8.html? you mite understand what i mean.

No wonder my poor brain doesn't know real from unreal any more =*(

Thanks again Elrohir.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

My God. :shock: I wasn't even going to look at this but these pictures do make me feel worse. It's more my DR I think.

I have problems with "High Definition" TV or whatever is in the stores now. I've been in "Circuit City" or whatever and seen these "TOO CLEAR" giant screen TVs. I will never own one.

This again goes with a theory that somehow our brains aren't processing stimuli properly. These pictures (for me) have too much "input." My mind gets "overwhelmed" and I feel myself "shutting down" or "getting confused" by what I'm looking at. This happens under high stress.

The fluorescent light thing also -- I'm not sure if I'm understanding how these pictures work, but those lights "flicker" at a different "speed" than luminiscent bulbs, yes? I think the problem with those, shopping malls, carnivals (especially in daytime), are too much incoming, and an inability to take it all in.

Would these pictures fall into an "overstimulation category." I don't know what I'm asking, but someone should send these to Dr. Sierra or Simeon and do some research on them.

That is bizarre. :shock:

God I hate it. Also, I have a new iMac (first time I've had this big a screen on a computer)... it's big, it's bright, it's TOO MUCH in a sense.

These pictures are doing something.

Explain again someone, what is it about this technique? I really reacted immediately to EP's picture.

:shock:


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

I have trouble watching anything "fast paced on TV" -- commercials, and I refuse to play video games. Even older arcade games used to drive me crazy.

When I was younger, the film Alien, in a large theatre, the ending with Ripley escapiing the Nostromo with the strobes going. I had my head down with my hands over my eyes and was completely DP/DR. Younger than that, ANY film was extremely difficult to sit through. I can't sit in an IMAX or CINEMAX. DP/DR intensity times 100.

Sheer Hell.

Overstimulation.


----------



## Catharsis (Jul 2, 2006)

No. HDR images are just beautiful imo. And anything beautiful brings me more into the world.

I can't think of a single picture that would make me more DPDR'd.


----------



## Elrohir (Oct 28, 2006)

Dreamer, I can absolutely relate to the things you wrote.
The HDR photographing seems to work like this

short exposure time









normal exposure time









long









then you reassemble 'em into one picture click to see

I hate such simple situations/things, where on one hand healthy ppl say "wow", and where, on the other hand, I get pretty confused. Nontheless I'm sure the dp provides us some valueable thoughts by the same token.

greetings


----------



## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

They're really pretty.. they just make me dizzy. 
lots of things make me dizzy :lol:


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Elrohir,

Thank you for the explanation. That is bizzare. There are some artists, well one in particular whose name escapes me who has these amazing life-like "paintngs", almost like photographs, but with the light being "odd", "sterile".

I'm also thinking this is a reaction to "novelty". This has happened to me many times. The real building becomes something distorted when this technique is used. I'm not saying it isn't an amazing look -- the building doesn't bother me as much as the animation -- but it isn't "real", it is "manipulated reality" and I have trouble with the novel input of it.

My DR makes the world look like this. Sadly, I really dislike going outdoors, though I obviously do out of necessity. But for instance, I used to live in L.A. and in certain areas, like Beverly Hills, there are beautiful tall buildings, a lot of glass windows. The light is TOO BRIGHT and I see these things especially flat and distorted. Again, a similar affect I think.

I wear transition lenses or sunglasses to lessen the effect. I prefer winter here in the Midwest, but even beauty is flat and dimmed.

It really pisses me off, because I love the outdoors. Spent SO much time outdoors as a young girl.

When the DR is bad outdoors the DP seems to increase as well. I always wonder if I didn't have the DR if the DP would be more bearable.

OMG those pictures.

Thank you.
And yes, healthy people don't know what the Hell I'm talking about, or as Catharsis notes, he isn't affected. Again showing are uniqueness with this experience.

D


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

[One] said:


> These don't trigger DP; they are just nice pictures
> 
> Pictures don't trigger anything, except ones looking down from a high point I sometimes get scared and get a sinking feeling like I'm going to fall.



Yeah I agree they don't "trigger" it... because if it's chronic, it's always with you like mine is. But it does increase it... to such a high point and speed to where you could mistake it as a trigger.


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

I think it?s down to the amount of ?detail? we can intake with these pictures, the flash doesn?t allow for shadows, same with fluorescent lights; I saw my counsellor for the first time and told him how fluorescent lights make me analyze his face a lot more, and this makes it hard for me to zone into the conversation (I?d just noticed his face as if something new came along to make it interesting) so he turned them off and opened the blinds? 20 mins later I told her I haven?t lost my focus with him during the 20 mins chat?

We analyze ?everything? (Well at lease I do) ? maybe even when we?re not aware we?re doing it, so if you add detail to the subject you?re looking at (remove all shadows and highlight the wrinkles and different shades of skin tones) you?ll be may become more DR/DPed by being overwhelmed.

I?m so good some times (Self confidence boost) =)


----------



## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

[One] said:


> Emulated Puppet}eer said:
> 
> 
> > [One] said:
> ...


Ah i see, well looks like you're getting like me then (getting things wrong) =P. Well yeah, I know what you mean because i don't feel effected by computer games which have HDR... well not till i come off them... then i feel totally confused =S.


----------



## Jane (Aug 14, 2006)

WOW I love the HDR photos on that site. The colours are absolutely amazing. I now have one picture currently as the background of my desktop 8).
I think these pictures are SUPPOSED to make people feel strange, because the brain is fighting to see what it knows the colours are, i.e. grass is a dull green, yet in these pics it is so bright, the brain tries to make sense of it. EVERYBODY has this, 'DP' or not. Ditto with strobe lights and fluorescent lights. In fact, strobe lights are supposed to mess you up, many would say that's the 'fun' of them. People with DP are so afraid of these kinds of lights because they CAN trigger off panic attacks. Therefore, when exposed to these types of lighting, one will always think over and over again 'How do I feel? Am I dizzy? Am I DP?' resulting in...you guessed it...increased anxiety and DP.



> This again goes with a theory that somehow our brains aren't processing stimuli properly. These pictures (for me) have too much "input." My mind gets "overwhelmed" and I feel myself "shutting down" or "getting confused" by what I'm looking at. This happens under high stress.
> 
> The fluorescent light thing also -- I'm not sure if I'm understanding how these pictures work, but those lights "flicker" at a different "speed" than luminiscent bulbs, yes? I think the problem with those, shopping malls, carnivals (especially in daytime), are too much incoming, and an inability to take it all in.
> 
> Would these pictures fall into an "overstimulation category." I don't know what I'm asking, but someone should send these to Dr. Sierra or Simeon and do some research on them.


Anxiety causes you to be in fight/flight mode all the time, making all of your senses too strong. If your senses are sensitive, likely any lighting will be 'overstimulating' and your brain will get, yes, tired. And 'shut down' as you say. Like a child who has too much excitement on Christmas and then drops at two o'clock in the afternoon. It's how everybody's body's work, anxiety is a draining thing. Eliminating anxiety puts your senses back and order, so you won't be liable to be 'overstimulated' and hence, DP. I'm not exactly sure how Dr. Sierra or Simeon could research these pictures...take PET scans of DP brains while the patient looks at them? My bet is, the anxiety DP patients would feel in seeing these pictures which are _meant to confuse the brain _would show up on the PET scan as increased metabolic activity, and this would be true of showing the pictures to a DPer or an anxiety-sufferer.

Love the pictures. Really cool stuff


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Ah, I answered my own question. A neurologist is the proper person to understand this. .....

Well this article better articulates what I'm talking about. There is the oversensitive brain theory. Not that we have epilepsy, but it could fall into a similar neurological category. Too lazy to be especially articulate on this at the moment.

Sorry Jane, I don't think your theory is that simple, but what do I know?
Never mind.

http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/epilepsyusa/photosensitivity20060306.cfm

*Shedding Light on Photosensitivity, One of Epilepsy?s Most Complex Conditions

By Giuseppe Erba, M.D.
Special to EpilepsyUSA
Posted: March 6, 2006

Giuseppe Erba, M.D., is a professor of neurology
and pediatrics at the University of Rochester,
as well as a former member of the
Epilepsy Foundation's professional advisory board.*

Certain individuals are born with special sensitivity to flashing lights or contrasting visual patterns, such as stripes, grids and checkerboards. Because of this condition, their brain will produce epileptic-like discharges when exposed to this type of visual stimulation.

Routine EEG testing, meant specifically to identify patients with this abnormal predisposition, includes exposure to strobe lights. At times during these tests, the EEG discharges can be accompanied by body jerks. If the individual is highly photosensitive, or if the visual stimulation is particularly strong and persistent, a seizure can occur. Affected people may not be aware of the risk until an EEG is performed or until they have a seizure when exposed to certain light stimulation.

Fortunately, this does not happen too often. Many additional factors are required to trigger a photically or pattern-induced seizure in photosensitive subjects.

*Who is Affected?
Photosensitivity, which is often associated with epilepsy, is a condition determined by gene transmission.* Therefore, it may be present in several members of one family and is more active early in life. Children and adolescents are more prone than adults to have an abnormal response to light stimulation, and the first light-induced seizure almost always occurs before age 20.

Girls (60 percent) are more often affected than boys (40 percent), although seizures are more frequent in boys because they are more likely to be playing video games. Video games often contain potentially provocative light stimulation.

The condition, formally known as photosensitive epilepsy, is best treated with antiepileptic drugs. There are, however, noted cases of individuals with no previous evidence of epilepsy who only have seizures provoked by light stimulation. That being the case, these individuals must be followed carefully for the possible development of epilepsy, which technically means having unprovoked seizures. But until then, seizure prevention may be achieved by simply trying to avoid exposure to strong light stimuli.

What Causes Light-Induced Seizures?
*Photosensitivity is an intricate medical problem. Scientists have been able to identify many of the triggers, but the mechanism that makes the brain hyper-excitable when the retina gets stimulated in a certain way remains poorly understood.* The key features of a provocative stimulus, however, are outlined in a consensus reached by a group of international experts gathered by the Epilepsy Foundation. These are:

The flicker of the light source, and the "frequency" at which the light changes. In other words, how many times the light flashes in a second. Generally, flashing lights between the frequencies of five to 30 flashes per second (Hertz) are most likely to trigger seizures. In order to be safe, the consensus recommends that photosensitive individuals should not be exposed to flashes greater than three per second.

The intensity of the light source, meaning how bright it is, as well as the"contrast" between light and dark during the flicker. The consensus recommends the contrast between alternating dark and bright images be not greater than 20 candelas per square meter (a technical measure for brightness).

The area the light stimulus occupies in the visual field. This is important because it actually determines how much of the brain gets stimulated. For instance, in the case of television viewing at a distance of about nine feet, the consensus recommends the area of the flashing stimulus on the screen be not greater than 25 percent of the total area. This also explains why most affected individuals can prevent the photosensitive reaction by simply covering one eye (monocular vision).

The pattern of the image. Static or moving patterns of discernable light and dark stripes have the same effect as flashing lights because of the alternation of dark and bright areas. The danger depends on how many and how contrasted the stripes are in the visual field. The consensus recommends no more than five pairs of stripes if they are moving within the field of vision and no more than eight pairs if they are static. About 30 percent of individuals sensitive to lights are also sensitive to patterns.
There are other factors involved, as well. One is the viewer's distance from the light source because it directly affects the field of vision. For instance, going back to the example of television viewing, the closer the person gets to the screen, the greater the risk. More of the visual field is occupied; therefore, more of the brain gets stimulated.

The second factor is color. Certain colors are critical; in particular, the so-called saturated "deep" red. Within the visual spectrum, this color is the one with the longest wavelength and it can be easily eliminated by wearing appropriate optical filters (blue lenses). However, filtering may also drastically affect visual perception. For instance, it is important that drivers, if wearing special filtering glasses to gain protection against possible seizures, do not loose the ability to recognize the color of signals at intersections. On the other hand, these devices may be helpful for passengers riding in cars and during other everyday activities not requiring sharp color discrimination. Pairs of quickly-changing colors, particularly red and blue, are also known to be more provocative than others.

*The most popular example of photosensitivity occurred in Japan on the night of Dec. 16, 1997. Close to 700 children were admitted to hospitals, mostly because of seizures that occurred while watching the popular cartoon Pok?mon. The cause of this seizure epidemic was a very short (four seconds) rocket-launch sequence, with flashing red and blue fields occupying the whole screen, changing at a frequency of 12.5 per second. This experience taught us all these factors are interdependent and can have powerful consequences when they occur in combination.*

In addition to distance and color issues, associated factors include sleep deprivation, fatigue from playing video games too long, and acute alcohol withdrawal. All of these can facilitate the occurrence of catastrophic reactions, such as seizures........

Etc. Read the URL for long article.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

*One*, the picture most disturbing to me is that "washroom" thing or whatever it is. The perspective seems flat.

Also, EP's video game was disturbing to me. Some of the pictures are, some are not. Also, when seen on a computer which has it's own weird "flicker" or whatever it does, it probably makes the experince more intense, I don't know.

See article I found above. Makes sense. Again, some have theorized DP/dissociation is on the seizure spectrum, but all seizures are not understood.

Reminder: We are all unique, the brain is infinitely complex, I am not a neurologist, and I believe that regardless how we got our DP/DR it has a neurological component. How could it not. Sexual excitement for example is not a State of Mind for example, it is an intricate interaction of many stimuli from so many sources.

I don't see how one can separate grey matter from perception, but that's just a neurological point of view.
Recent article in the NYTimes today that stroke in a certain area of the brain can make someone "forget" they are addicted to cigarettes. Specifically.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

> My bet is, the anxiety DP patients would feel in seeing these pictures which are meant to confuse the brain would show up on the PET scan as increased metabolic activity, and this would be true of showing the pictures to a DPer or an anxiety-sufferer.


Possible for some. I mentioned "novelty", meaning if one is conditioned to "be on the lookout", "vigillant", something "odd" like this increases the FF reaction and hence the DP.

I guess epilepsy is just a state of mind.

Cheers,
The Hairball of Anxiety 8)


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

[One] said:


> I was just testing the picture editing to see if it changed anything like the other photos did. That picture is a "bath slab" for patients in a developmental center who were not able to be put in a regular bath tub.
> 
> My photography is mostly of abandoned hospitals (psychiatric-developmental-tuberculosis). You might be thinking its not a good idea to explore closed hospitals with panic, anxiety, dp, dr and whatnot but its the only thing that actually helps me! :wink:


Wow, I love the pictures. Indeed a tad spooky, but I'd consider you very creative! Keep going with your talent! 8)

Excellent to have a passion like that.

Best,
D


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

*One* is your Avatar some of those little forest creatures from 
"Princess Mononoke"? sp? I loved that film.


----------



## PAXIS (Aug 12, 2006)

Nice pics, some of you really talk yourselves into getting DP'd :roll:


----------



## Jane (Aug 14, 2006)

> Nice pics, some of you really talk yourselves into getting DP'd


I agree. Sometimes it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh?



> Sorry Jane, I don't think your theory is that simple, but what do I know?
> Never mind.


Maybe my theory ISN'T correct, but I sure as heck prefer it than believing there is something neurologically wrong in the DP-brain. I also think that the DP-anxiety-theory is much more logical than some neurological defect. DP is F/F response, is found in panic attacks and anxiety. Sure, it's also a part of epilepsy, but I don't believe it to be long-lasting in epilepsy, wheras it is with anxiety. Dr. Claire Weekes has written very logical passages about the anxiety-DP connection. Reading her books, it was as though a lightbulb turned on for me...it all makes sense. I kept believing what I'd read. And I'm DP-free, been so for a few months now. But then, I know everybody's different, so I'm unable to determine the extent at which everybody else is affected by their DP symptoms, or to find out what the causes are, although I'm willing to bet anxiety is the root in 98% of cases. Not that knowing the cause makes DP any better to experience.
That was a very interesting article about photosensitivity. It's interesting how seizures can be prevented by simply covering one's eye or wearing optical filters. I'm glad there's been so much research into this. It's very interesting.


----------



## PPPP (Nov 26, 2006)

Dreamer said:


> Certain individuals are born with special sensitivity to flashing lights or contrasting visual patterns, such as stripes, grids and checkerboards. Because of this condition, their brain will produce epileptic-like discharges when exposed to this type of visual stimulation.
> ...
> The pattern of the image. Static or moving patterns of discernable light and dark stripes have the same effect as flashing lights because of the alternation of dark and bright areas. The danger depends on how many and how contrasted the stripes are in the visual field. The consensus recommends no more than five pairs of stripes if they are moving within the field of vision and no more than eight pairs if they are static. About 30 percent of individuals sensitive to lights are also sensitive to patterns.
> ....




That's interesting because I was talking to someone earlier about patterns and repeating rows of things triggering dizzyness and intense episodes. :? 
I feel like my brain is trying to break the pattern down into groups but the groups keep shifting and it makes me feel funny. (sorry that's the best I can describe it.)
Strobes don't really bother me.
I'm not sure if it's the same sort of thing or not.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

> DP is F/F response, is found in panic attacks and anxiety.
> 
> 
> > I DO believe in the FF response! But I see it as a neurological phenomenon. I don't see how one can separate neurological from psychological from cognitive, etc., etc., etc. When an animal has a fight/flight reaction, do you think it is contemplating it's existence? It is an innate survival response. We are complex animals. Our brains go by the same rules, operate at a very complex primitive level, then we add our ability to be self-aware on top of that.
> ...


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2007)

Dreamer said:


> *One* is your Avatar some of those little forest creatures from
> "Princess Mononoke"? sp? I loved that film.



You're an anime fan as well? That makes you a winner =)

How did you feel when they managed to kill the "soul of the forest": The Chimera?
Made me think how evil and foolish humans can be.


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2007)

[One] said:


> I have no idea where my avatar is from, I just think the little white things look cool





















You can see them in this picture ^ seems they are called "Kodama"



> Q: What is Kodama, the white little creature?
> 
> Kodama means "echo" (its literal meaning is a "tree spirit"). However, since its name is written in Katakana, not in Kanji, it could also mean "small ball" or "small spirit". They (there are many, in various sizes and shapes) are a kind of spirit who live in the forest. Although Kodama (a tree spirit) appears in many Japanese folktales, Kodama as a little white creature is Miyazaki's creation.


I've seen them on other fourms, they are cute... me likes em =)


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

One said:


> I have no idea where my avatar is from, I just think the little white things look cool


LOL. Yes they are cool. They are friendly little creatures. I have a soft spot for them. 8)

Also, when you altered your photos, you took the HD away, yes? And the pictures were not disturbing to me -- save that washtub, I LOVE that picture, which already had a sort of 2D effect for me. THAT is the sort of test I'd be talking about. It is like those crazy pictures that have a hidden picture in them.

And who was it that said they have a reaction to patterns and lines? I don't have DP reaction per se, but they "irritate" me. If you google V.S. Ramachandran, M.D./neurologist (my hero at the mo, lol) he has a collection of those optical illusions, or no, no,* Al Sekel* does. Ramachandran talks of the "Fight/Flight/DP" response.

The brain seeks to "make sense" of things that are novel. The brain "fills in the blanks" as it cannot tolerate things that are "incomplete" and indeed some people have more difficulty processing these images than others. Not just those with seizure activity. But brain activity is clearly different in said people when looking at this stuff than in others. If we understood why there would be another key to understanding how to treat, VARIETIES of DP. I don't think there is simply one. It's a spectrum.

I'm referring to some of this like dyslexia. EP, you said you have dyslexia? People used to think dyslexics were "stupid" or of lower intelligence. I don't know who figured out what was happening. And those with dyslexia can work around it with great effort. Again, as I understand it, a problem with incoming stimuli -- the brain gets confused when interpreting the incoming data.



EP said:


> You're an anime fan as well? That makes you a winner =)


To be honest, I can't really say I'm an anime fan, but I'll take the "winner" compliment. 8) I recognize the images as "anime". To be honest I don't really know what that means, other than a particular style that is of Japanese origin. If there is more to it, please explain.

As noted, I only used to play VERY simple arcade games ... before your time, like PacMan and Space Invaders. I cannot tolerate video games, and to be honest have never liked them. Forgive me.

I saw, "Princess Mononoke" when it first came out. I have a brain like a sieve sp? and don't remember the story as much as the wonder I had at the visuals. I should rent it again.

What troubles me with video games, and the "short term" images on TV, everything TOO fast paced in films seems to be damaging to kids. If I had a child/teen, I would limit those games. Forgive me. I can also see the addiction of it. I got addicted to Spider Solitaire at one point, LOL. Had to uninstall it. Now THAT however was a great distraction from DP for some reason.

OK, done. And yes, I type as fast as my brain rattles on. I write a lot and I've only gotten faster and faster. I talk too fast too. I drive people crazy, LOL. Forgive.

Best,
D


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2007)

> I'm referring to some of this like dyslexia. EP, you said you have dyslexia? People used to think dyslexics were "stupid" or of lower intelligence. I don't know who figured out what was happening. And those with dyslexia can work around it with great effort. Again, as I understand it, a problem with incoming stimuli -- the brain gets confused when interpreting the incoming data.


Indeed I do have Dyslexia which I would state to be a gift myself? I have an IQ of 136 when it comes to abstract thinking and visualization (IQ of 90 for English/Spelling ect), I only need use it to my advantage? when the time is right. 



> To be honest, I can't really say I'm an anime fan, but I'll take the "winner" compliment. 8) I recognize the images as "anime". To be honest I don't really know what that means, other than a particular style that is of Japanese origin. If there is more to it, please explain.


Oh I see, so you want the best of both worlds? *Trys to grab the winner compliment back* =P. Oh no, these images would be called ?Manga? it?s only film/cartoons which are called animes. It?s simple really, anime is short for ?animation? and for manga? well lets say it?s short for ?magazine? (but it?s real ?literal? meaning is: "random pictures". 



> As noted, I only used to play VERY simple arcade games ... before your time, like PacMan and Space Invaders. I cannot tolerate video games, and to be honest have never liked them. Forgive me.


Nah, never ever gonna forgive you for this! It?s totally unforgivable =P? lol ?each to their own? =) 



> I saw, "Princess Mononoke" when it first came out. I have a brain like a sieve sp? and don't remember the story as much as the wonder I had at the visuals. I should rent it again.


Well ? you could always download it? *shrugs*


----------



## Jane (Aug 14, 2006)

> And yes, Jane, for some odd reason you press my buttons and it's a stupid thing for me to react as you could be my daughter.


Sorry. I'm a horrible person.  I never meant to make anybody angry. I feel bad but I think I always try to stress an anxiety-cause for DP because I know when I was DP, the last thing I wanted to hear was that it was due to a neurological illness. There's something morbid about those words, I think. But maybe I'm just avoiding truth by pushing my own little crappy theories. Sorry, Dreamer. I just think that photosensitivity in epilepsy has a different root than 'overstimulation' in DP. One has to do with misfirings in the brain, the other in heightened senses. Of course I know seizures are 'real' and not psychological (although they can be, but that's a whole different field!). I don't see where I ever said those kids were having anxiety.



> I am glad you are cured and have come back to chastize those of us who aren't.


  I didn't chastize anybody, did I? I never said DP was from self-pity or what have you. I mentioned that feeling those things can make DP worse. I never said DP was a weakness, or being lazy etc. I suffer from anxiety and I know the brain can get sick. I think people in your life have told you you have DP because you are lazy, weak, etc, and I know they're wrong and you know they're wrong. The board knows they're wrong. People have told me the same things and I know they're wrong. Doctors know they're wrong. I really, really don't want to 'press your buttons' and become your enemy here. I think we disagree on some theories of DP, but I never mean to make you angry with me. Again, I apologize. Sincerely.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Jane said:


> > And yes, Jane, for some odd reason you press my buttons and it's a stupid thing for me to react as you could be my daughter.
> 
> 
> Sorry. I'm a horrible person.  I never meant to make anybody angry. I feel bad but I think I always try to stress an anxiety-cause for DP because I know when I was DP, the last thing I wanted to hear was that it was due to a neurological illness. There's something morbid about those words, I think. But maybe I'm just avoiding truth by pushing my own little crappy theories. Sorry, Dreamer. I just think that photosensitivity in epilepsy has a different root than 'overstimulation' in DP. One has to do with misfirings in the brain, the other in heightened senses. Of course I know seizures are 'real' and not psychological (although they can be, but that's a whole different field!). I don't see where I ever said those kids were having anxiety.
> ...


Jane,
You aren't a horrible person. I have some major "button pushing" issues that come from waaay back. I think it started when I felt you were playing a game with the Steinberg scale and the Cambridge scale saying "anyone could say they have DP" on these tests, etc. You remember.

It seemed you took this so lightly, talking as if this were a game of sorts, that your mother and sisters must have DP too as they answered "yes" to the questions. I discussed the flaws in those tests. As did others.

*I guess my reactions to you started when you first came on the forum, and you did attack me pretty viciously once. The general gist of it was that I indulge myself in my symptoms, spend too much time researching it. My website, which was intended to help me AND other people -- you considered it self-indulgent and perpetuating my illness. (I know those weren't your exact words, and I think you deleted a good bit of the post, but that was indeed the general point of it.)*

I'm on the lookout I guess for anything you say that I may think is addressed to me. That is again MY issue. I apologize.[/b]

But for instance, re: the caffeine post... you are always saying there is a major anxiety connection. Yes, I believe there is. I am one of the most anxious people I know, lol. But I know other DPers who AREN'T anxious, and though I wasn't 100% convinced in Dr. Simeon's book, that entire book was her theory on "Primary DP". DP which remains even when someone isn't panicky or anxious anymore. Dr. Sierra in London has also seen "pure DP" though I believe it is rare. However there are some longtimers here who no longer post who would say they are not anxious and still have DP.

I am at this moment at very low level anxiety, and my DP/DR are still here. I know though that beneath the surface I have a very high constant hypervigilance. Recently I have had TERRIBLE anxiety and my DP/DR have NOT increased. I'm am truly a mess.

At any rate. Caffeine isn't the only thing that increases DP either. For me, alcohol is awful. And that is a depressant. So this shows that there is much complexity to the DP story.

Also the article below which I posted LONG ago, shows how a woman developed DP from an antibiotic! There was one woman here long ago who developed DP from a tetanus shot!

See article below. *Meantime. Yes, let's have a truce. If I find something that pushes my buttons in something you say, it is my problem to figure what's bothering me and not to react so defensively. I will try. I have to figure why it is so difficult for me. A psychological issue for me. Purely psychological. Apologies.

Truce?*
Sincerely,
D
-------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35&start=0

-------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/468728_print

*This is on Medscape. You need to register informally to access the 
full article.*

Medication-Associated Depersonalization Symptoms: Report of 
Transient Depersonalization Symptoms Induced by Minocycline

*Philip R. Cohen, MD 
South Med J 97(1):70-73, 2004. ? 2004 Lippincott Williams & 
Wilkins

Posted 03/10/2004* 
-------------------------------- 
Medications Associated with Depersonalization Symptoms 
This table is at the end of the article, including a very detailed 
bibliography. 
(This includes both Rec drugs and Rx drugs. The article notes that 
this induced DP is reversed when meds are discontinued. Obviously this 
is not the case for everyone.) 
Best, 
D

*"Alcohol 
Antihistamines 
Antipsychotics 
Anxiolytics - (Anti-anxiety medications) 
Benzodiazepines 
Caffeine 
Carbamazepine 
Fluoxetine 
Fluphenazine 
Hallucinogens 
Indomethacin 
LSD 
Marijuana 
Meta-chlorophenylpiperazine 
Minocycline (this article) 
Nitrazepam 
Sodium pentothal* 
-----------------

*Abstract* 
Patients with depersonalization disorder experience episodes in which 
they have a feeling of detachment from themselves. Symptoms of 
depersonalization may occur in individuals who have other mental 
disorders, or who have various medical conditions, or who have taken 
certain medications.

A woman developed depersonalization symptoms after initiation of 
minocycline therapy. Her symptoms ceased after treatment was stopped 
and recurred when she restarted the drug. Medications that have been 
associated with causing symptoms of depersonalization are presented and 
the postulated pathogenesis by which some of these drugs induced 
depersonalization symptoms is discussed. Medication-associated 
depersonalization symptoms typically resolve once the inducing drug has 
been withdrawn.

*Introduction* 
Psychiatric syndromes that consist of disruptions of aspects of 
consciousness, environmental awareness, identity, memory, or motor 
behavior are classified as dissociative disorders.[1]

Depersonalization disorder is a dissociative disorder characterized by 
persistent or recurrent episodes in which the individual has a feeling 
of detachment or estrangement from one's self. Although their reality 
testing remains intact, the person may feel like they are living in a 
dream or like an automation.

Depersonalization disorder cannot be diagnosed if it is part of another psychiatric condition or if it is secondary to a medical disorder or if it is caused by a drug.[1-7]

In contrast, transient depersonalization symptoms may occur in 
association with several mental disorders, medical conditions, or 
medications.[1-42]

*Minocycline is a semisynthetic tetracycline derivative that is well 
absorbed after oral administration.[43-45] Since it penetrates well 
into sebum, secondary to its high lipid solubility, it is commonly used 
in the treatment of acne vulgaris.[46] The potential profile of 
minocycline-associated adverse sequelae has been established.[43-51]

Central nervous system-related side effects that may occur in patients 
treated with this medication include headaches, light-headedness, 
pseudotumor cerebri (also referred to as benign intracranial 
hypertension, which clinically presents with blurred vision and 
headache), and vestibular disturbances (such as ataxia, vertigo, and 
dizziness).[43-46,52-54] *

A young woman with minocycline-induced transient depersonalization 
symptoms is described. Her symptoms began after initiating treatment 
with minocycline, ceased after stopping the medication, and recurred 
after restarting the drug.

Other medications that have been associated with causing symptoms of depersonalization are summarized and some of the postulated mechanisms for the pathogenesis of these drug-related symptoms are discussed.

*Conclusions *
Individuals may develop depersonalization symptoms after medication 
administration. Depersonalization symptoms appeared in a woman after 
starting minocycline therapy and resolved once the drug was stopped; 
subsequently, the symptoms promptly recurred when she rechallenged 
herself with minocycline and permanently resolved after the medication 
was discontinued.

*The pathophysiology of minocycline-associated depersonalization 
symptoms remains to be established. However, alternative mechanisms of pathogenesis?not necessarily mutually exclusive?have been hypothesized for some of the other medications associated with inducing 
depersonalization symptoms: hypersensitivity of the serotonin system, 
drug-related metabolic encephalopathy, panic disorder-related etiology, 
and substance-induced temporal disintegration possibly secondary to 
increased levels of brain activity.*

Medication-associated depersonalization symptoms typically resolve 
once the inducing drug has been withdrawn."
---------------------------------------------------------------

Best,
D


----------



## Jane (Aug 14, 2006)

Dreamer, thank you for being so understanding. I will watch what I say here in the future. Yes, I say, truce.


----------

