# Suicide as a real way out



## Depersonalized (Feb 11, 2005)

I am just wondering why we (ppl with DP) don't talk about this at all. We complain about how we hate our lives, yet we all choose to suffer. Is it because of our moral and religious values such as suicide is something horrible and wrong or maybe because of our fear, or maybe just because we still find life pleasurable? What makes those who commited suicide so different from us?

P.S.
I do not advise or promote suicide in this topic, it is just something I thought would be interesting to discuss.


----------



## Depersonalized (Feb 11, 2005)

and why is the word suicide censored? :roll:


----------



## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

when at my worst state i couldn't kill myself as i knew for sure that if i did i would stay in that unbearable state for eternity. my only choice was to see if it would lessen in my life time


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear DP,
I wish we could talk more about this, but it is a thorny discussion, like religion and politics!

The word suicide looks like that, for that very reason -- it scares people, it makes people angry, and *one thing that is completely unnacceptable on the board here are suicide threats.* Those are extremely disturbing to people, and no one can help someone on an internet forum.

If anyone feels suicidal they need to contact their doctor, a suicide hotline, call 9-1-1, a friend, etc. NOT post it on a forum.

I have wanted to take my own life, in my twenties, I had had enough. However, a med at the time helped enough to make me want to go on.

I'm glad I did. Things have been tough, but I see things differently than I did then, and the symptoms are better, I've worked in therapy re: a rotten family.

Interestingly enough, a very close friend of mine, took her life last December. She had been "perfectly fine", I saw her about 2 weeks before this happened, and got a "perfectly fine" email from her about 4 days before this happened.

I so wish I had pushed trying to help her. I knew she was unhappy, but never that unhappy. She saw no light at the end of the tunnel, and in a sense in her case, there really was very little light.

I attend a Survivors of Suicide group. Suicide is an extremely serious choice. THe individual reaches such a state of mind that they don't want help, are at peace to a degree about it. I now see in hindsight my friend had made this decision about 2 months before.

Odd, but I told another close friend, that now, I would think 50 times before taking my own life -- I see it less as an option, but I must say, if I'm old and DP it's a thought again -- many elderly do commit suicide for lack of quality of life. I am angry with my friend, essentially because she left me alone (I'd known her for 25 years, and we're both 46). It is absolutely incomprehensible when someone close to you does this.

She SO needed help and couldn't reach out. I go through stages of guilt, sadness, anger, and feeling numb.

You must understand her choice, though illogical, was all she saw as a way out of her particular circumstance, which was indeed terrible. I won't go into details.

Very sad.

I don't mind talking about suicide. A lot of people here do.

Hope this answers your question.

Best,
D

At any rate


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

This is also a very timely topic in the US.

See http://www.nami.org The National Alliance For The Mentally Ill
(Sadly suicide is the third leading cause of death in young people. I've met such families in my Surivivors of Suicide group.)
If you wish to get involved .....

*House Allies Push for Suicide Prevention Funding
April 13, 2005
A bipartisan coalition of House members -- led by Representatives Bart Gordon (D-TN), Tom Osborne (R-NE) and Danny Davis (D-IL) -- are currently pushing their colleagues to include funding for recently authorized federal initiatives to expand effective youth suicide prevention services.*

*FY 2006 Funding for Youth Suicide Prevention Initiatives*

This past fall, Congress passed -- and President Bush signed into law -- the Garrett Lee Smith Memorial Act (P.L. 108-355), authorizing new programs at SAMHSA to support states and local communities in developing comprehensive strategies for suicide prevention among adolescents and young adults.

The new law also authorizes expansion of campus-based mental health services. NAMI strongly supports this new law. For FY 2005, Congress allocated $7 million for programs authorized under the Garrett Lee Smith Act, including planning grants to the states to develop comprehensive suicide prevention strategies. NAMI urges full funding in FY 2006 ($16.5 million) for suicide prevention activities authorized under the Garrett Lee Smith Act.

*Action Required
Advocates are strongly encouraged to contact their House member and urge them to sign the Gordon-Osborne-Davis letter in support of FY 2006 funding for suicide prevention and campus mental health initiatives authorized under the Garrett Lee Smith Act. All House office can be reached by calling 202-224-3121 or at http://www.house.gov*

In calling House offices, advocates are strongly encouraged to remind members of Congress that:

*According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, suicide is the third leading cause of death in youth aged 10 to 24.* 
About every two hours, a young person under the age of 25 commits suicide. 

Tragically, over 4,000 young lives are lost each year to suicide.

More teenagers and young adults die from suicide than from cancer, heart disease, AIDS, birth defects, stroke, pneumonia, influenza, and chronic disease, combined.

The good news is that with proper mental illness treatment, many of these suicides can be prevented.

To help ensure that at-risk youth get the services they need, the Garrett Lee Smith Act provides grant funding to states for development of a youth suicide prevention and intervention strategy.

*By requiring states to distribute at least 85 percent of grant funding to entities that will carry out the implementation of the state strategy, this legislation will help ensure that federal funds will reach youth at risk for suicide. *

Funds authorized under the Garrett Lee Smith Act can be used by school districts, juvenile justice systems, local governments and non-profit behavioral health entities to implement a variety of programs targeted at preventing youth suicide, including mental health screening and treatment services.

The Garrett Lee Smith Act also provides support for colleges and universities to establish or enhance their mental illness treatment and outreach services in campuses across the country.

The new law also establishes a federal Suicide Technical Assistance Center to provide guidance to grantees, establish standards for data collection, and collect, evaluate and disseminate data related to the program.

*To sign up to receive E-News Alerts directly in your inbox, visit http://www.nami.org/subscribe, sign in and check the box next to E-News.*

---------------------------------------
It is painful for ME to see the pain of mothers and fathers who have lost their young children to suicide -- usually teenagers, "and they looked perfectly fine. Head of their class. Class president. Soccer team player. Excellent student. Always happy."

I believe this is so taboo as it is SO hurtful to the survivors. But the stupidest thing I ever heard was to make suicide a crime.


----------



## enigma (Feb 18, 2005)

After graduating from college, I slid into a very deep depression, and after about five years of it I finally decided I wanted out.

I intentionally o.d.'d on a combiniation of alcohol and ativan, under the misapprehension that this combination was fatal (there were stories in the papers then about 'mickey finn' girls, prostitutes who drugged men and then robbed them, their drug of choice being ativan. And I read about one man who died from this combo).

I was wrong, of course, and awoke in the hospital after two days in a coma.

Am I glad I didn't succeed?

To me it seems rather hackneyed to hear people who attempted suic*** say that they _are_.

In my particular case the answer depends almost entirely upon what day you ask me that question.

e


----------



## Depersonalized (Feb 11, 2005)

Personally I think that suicide is a choice that any human being is given. We did not choose to lead our lives, however what we can decide is how we end them. To feel sad for a person that has ended their life can be disrespectful to some extent. There is a point in any man's life where you choose either to go on and fight or just stop fighting, some people can't go beyong that point, they get stuck, they see suicide as the only solution to all their life's troubles. I know that we live in society which is pro-life and anti-death, what makes suicide such a taboo topic
Now do you consider websites such as pro-choice or pro-suicide to be immoral or simply evil?


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Depersonalized said:


> Now do you consider websites such as pro-choice or pro-suic*** to be immoral or simply evil?


I don't know whom you're addressing this to, or if it's a rhetorical question.

The whole question of ending a life in any way is going to ruffle feathers. Euthanasia, abortion, suicide, etc. Especially if you are "the survivor", a spouse, a sibling, a mother, a father, a loved one of any sort.

I believe in freedom of choice, of course. I have nearly taken my own life, and have thought of it seriuosly on other occasions. At the times I considered it, when I saw no options, I would have gone through with it.

I don't judge my friend. I see the despair that was her life. And her inability to reach out for help. Yet, I wish I could have stopped it. She is gone forever. Forever. She has dropped off the face of the earth. Someone I've known for 25 years and figured I'd know for 25 more.

But there are people, who if given the help, don't have to die. Especially young people. Or people whose very illness -- such as a serious clinical depression -- causes them to want to commit suicide. In some psychotic depressions, an individual can hallucinate a voice telling him/her to kill him/herself. Intervention can make a huge difference.

Also, in my Suicide Survivor's group, I could tell you a million miserable stories. One involved a kid ... I think he was 19. Young men choose guns/rifles. And a lot of young men commit suicide. The family has a
9-1-1 tape. They've heard it. The young man called 9-1-1, told the operator where he was (and the address comes up on the operator's screen), and said, "I'm going to shoot myself. Bring the police out to clean up so my roommate won't be upset when he comes home."

Due do the usual bungling of 9-1-1 (I've heard plenty of bad stories), the phone conversation was cut off. (The recording was held as evidence.)

The police never came after that call. The roommate came home to find a horror. He made the call.

I spoke with my psychiatrist about this. My friend was giving "signals" that she was leaving. Things we see in retrospect, and go, "AHA, that's why he/she did that! Why didn't I....." etc.

Well, my psychiatrist said, that that boy's phonecall could have been a "courtesy call", but was also probably a last call for help. Yes, it was late in the game. But before the young man killed himself, he phoned a crisis number.

None of this is cut and dried.

I'd go on more about it. I don't judge people who commit suicide. But some can be helped. Some can't. And I agree we hold our lives in our own hands. But these people believe they are not loved by anyone, that they are a burden, a disgrace, whatever. My friend believed that, and that was NOT the case.

I want very much to talk with her now. All of her close friends (we've shared many a phone call and email over this) say over and over, "If I'd only.........." And we had. We had offered help she wouldn't accept/couldn't........ but we still feel we should have/could have..... etc.

And what do you think the mothers and fathers think when they come into these meetings. They have lost a teenager. And they cannot stop crying, and they say, "I am a bad mother, I am a bad father, what did I do wrong?"

Also, I have a cousin I'd like to punch in the head, LOL. She was in the hospital recently and was placed in a room next to an Alzheimer's patient. She said to me (forgetting my mother, her Aunt, took 10 years to die of Alzheimer's), "Why do they keep her alive? She's just existing?"

I understand that question. My mother attempted suicide and couldn't do it, she forgot how to when her mind was going. But what was I to do? Should I kill my mother, knowing it is her wish to not live this way?

I thought of that too. A situation not unlike my friend who died. Caregiver murder-suicide if you must know.

None of this is simple.
Nothing in life is simple though it may appear to be.
*There are no simple answers to these questions and yet it's good we talk about them.*

And yet I have to take a day by day approach that you deal with what's in front of you. Live in the present.

All any of us can do.

Peace,
D


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

i agree with you depersonalized but i think suicide should be the last option


----------



## Depersonalized (Feb 11, 2005)

I ve read many stories on suicide from sites such as http://www.1000deaths.com/ 
I know how tragic and horrible it can be for the loved ones. Yet suicide phenomenon remains unclear how and why exactly it occurs.



> aren't all suicidal people crazy?
> 
> Of course not. Having suicidal thoughts is a natural and rational response to the horror being perpetrated by ignorant human beings. It does not imply that one is crazy, or necessarily mentally ill. People who attempt suicide are often acutely distressed and the	vast majority are depressed to some extent. This depression may be a reactive depression which is an entirely normal response to the difficult circumstances of modern life, and it may be an endogenous depression which is the result of a diagnosable mental illness with other underlying causes. of course 'mental illness' is a category that is rather malleable and to some degree determined by social bias.
> The exact definition of depression itself as a diagnosable mental illness (i.e. clinical) tends to be somewhat fluid and inexact, so whether a person who is distressed enough to attempt suicide would be diagnosed as suffering from clinical depression may vary in the opinions of professionals and between cultures. In general for the purposes of suicide *encouragement*, such a diagnosis is completely irrelevant. it's probably more helpful to distinguish between these two types of motivations and treat each accordingly rather than to simply diagnose all such depression as mental illness, even though a person suffering from a reactive depression might match the diagnostic criteria typically used to diagnose clinical depression.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Agreed, not every person who commits suicide is mentally ill. But a good number are. It is strange, I have felt VERY different when I twice contemplated suicide.

Once it was because the quality of my life was so poor and such torture I couldn't go on. Medication intervened.

One other time, I was badly depressed (actually I've experienced this a number of times). My whole outlook on life changed dramatically. I can't even recall why I thought the way I did. In both cases, time, and the help of friends and my therapist helped.

Two good sources, now I think I have the correct URLS....

Survivors of Suicide. Lots of Suicide FAQs

http://www.survivorsofsuicide.com/

And the NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health) statistics on suicide.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/suicideprevention/suicidefaq.cfm

Hope those are correct now.
Nite.
Important discussion.
D


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

I want too but basically I'm too much of a pussy. :x


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

Suicide seems very appealing right now. I used to chastise anyone who was suicidal and thought they were a wuss. Boy do I regret thinking that about them. The pain that suicidal people feel is real. The old cliche "dont judge someone until you are in their shoes" is oh so true. When you experience the horrible, debilitating, gut wrenching pain day after day for years and years then it is only NATURAL for the body and spirit to want to die. The human rope is only so long and will eventually run out unless relief is experienced.


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

Exactly. I'm not sure how much longer I can put my self through this.

I've barely been on Planet Earth this week, I have no idea what is wrong with me but I feel totally screwed up in the head.


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

Yeah mate, I don't think i'll be around much longer either.

Btw, this isn't a threat.


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Funny thing, censorship. Three letters are etched out of suicide, and f.u.c.k, and s.h.i.t, but we all know what they mean. It baffles me. Why do it ? It's like when you watch a film full of swearyness and they change f.u.c.k for flip. Strange. I've never understood it.


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

Its funny that censoring the word suicide actually gives it the 'loaded' meaning, which is meant to be taken away by censoring it. :?


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Indeed - it attracts your attention to it straight away.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Wendy said:


> Its funny that censoring the word suic*** actually gives it the 'loaded' meaning, which is meant to be taken away by censoring it. :?


Agreed.

But as Narcotic says, never judge someone until you've walked in their shoes... sadly many people don't understand that. Hence the word and the topic become taboo... as the topic is taboo in society for various reasons.

Best,
D


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

PS -- meant to say, re: my friend's suicide. Many of us who have talked all experienced a loss because of this and hence we haven't sent Sympathy Cards to each other, LOL.

However, I have told others, and I have gotten no sympathy cards, or "I'm so sorry that happened."

In my group, parents whose children have died become ostracized. They are treated differently (certainly not by everyone), but in the main by those who don't understand.

One woman's son was indeed seriuosly mentally ill, and someone at the funeral said, "Well you must be relieved that's over."

DEAR LORD. The kid was a regular kid until he got socked with a horrible case of bi-polar when he was around 20.

She nearly decked the nasty visitor -- might even have been a distant relative. I wish she had.


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2005)

Dreamer said:


> But as Narcotic says, never judge someone until you've walked in their shoes... sadly many people don't understand that. Hence the word and the topic become taboo... as the topic is taboo in society for various reasons.
> 
> Best,
> D


Dreamer, I notice once again that I do come from a different country..lol
Suicide is not a taboo here in Holland, at least not as far as I know about.
No, I really dont think so, but that could just be me 8) The remark I made had more to do (for me) with the effects of censorship than with the subject of suicide itsself.
But, I think censoring the word suicide keeps the taboo in tact.

Ive known a couple of people in my life who committed suicide, some were closer than others, but I know the effect it has on the loved ones who are left behind.

I do have suicidal thoughts. Not regularly, but they are there, especially lately. Then I get fantasies about HOW is the best way to do it. But I know it will pass. I keep it as an option though, which can make life more bearable. Knowing I always have the CHOICE to do it if I need to. The ultimate escape/solution for when life DOES get unbearable to live anylonger. Its comforting to know to have this option. That mostly is enough for me.

Best,
Wendy :wink:


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Wendy,
You do indeed live in a different country... now where is it, LOL? 8) .... I find that amazing. I'd like to come and visit.

I wish the topic could be dealt with more openly here in the US. I believe one aspect of this is that your country and Europe as a whole is more secular. Suicide here is considered a crime and the Catholic Church looks down upon it. But that certainly isn't representative of all of the U.S.

What a strange thing.

I also think, and everyone as a group now :roll: :roll: :roll: at me.... LOL... this is again tied to the "biological imperative". If survival of the species is hard-wired into us, there is some form of social ostracism associated with the taking of life, even one's own. It doesn't benefit the cohesion of a group.

There are now studies in Thantology? or Suicidology ... a whole new subspecialty. If you go to Pubmed there are a lot of articles on suicide. And I'm certainly glad NAMI is willing to discuss it and especially that there is a support group for me here. Very open, very non-judgemental, very supportive.

I feel for anyone who wants this option. I know what it feels like. I don't think it is an option taken lightly. One "dances around" the concept for a while. Some younger people may be impulsive about it which is very sad, but I DO understand wanting to just go to sleep because the DP/DR is so awful.

Fortunately I haven't been feeling that way recently. And also haven't had a bout of just plain old depression which can change my outlook 360 degrees.

Best,
D


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> Hence the word and the topic become taboo... as the topic is taboo in society for various reasons.


Only in neo-conservative or islamic cuntries !! :wink: The rest of us ignore it, at best, or use it to flower up our paucity of language, at worst.


----------



## Guest (Apr 21, 2005)

For Dreamer:










NOW you know :wink:

LOLOL


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

Something along the lines of "Holland: 25,000 miles east of America" would be better I think 

I lived in the shadow of suicide for a long time (More than a decade), during which time it was always a serious possibility - something I thought about and thought about doing often. I even went to the extent of making intricate plans on how I'd do it.

There's part of me that still thinks I am a coward and weak for not ever going through with it, but there's also part of me that is relieved to leave the idea behind. Though I still think about it from time to time, and I still self-harm, I don't think I'd ever actually go through with it.

Ironically, in the end it was ruminating on spirituality and philosophy that has lead me here. Consider this:

Our spiritis/souls DO choose to live this life. If we die we are reincarnated into another physical body and another life. So suicide is just another way to restart the cycle of self-abuse. You can't move on until the lesson is learned. So instead, understand the why of the illness and what it tells you about yourself (difficult notion of course because it feeds back into over-analysing the self) and move on.


----------



## Depersonalized (Feb 11, 2005)

I am not sure about reincarnation, nor the spirits or souls. In this DP condition I come closer and closer to conclusion that death is the very end of everything and thats the true beauty of it.


----------



## CECIL (Oct 3, 2004)

I just kind of see depression as an infinite meaninglessness - and its very numbing to the point where, if nothing means anything, there's no point in going on.

Construct your own meaning. Construct your own reality.


----------



## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

That's how I know when I'm actually depressed because I get that feeling where "what is the point of all this? Life has no meaning." That really bored and empty feeling. It's a different feeling than when I'm dped and pondering whether life has meaning. Anyway, suicide is really annoying in that I have people in my life who like to "threaten" it. And who knows if they'll really do it. So I have to worry 24/7 that they're gonna kill themselves. Which is complete bullshit because that's exactly what they want! Why is suicide no longer censored?...


----------



## Depersonalized (Feb 11, 2005)

Life can have one meaning for sure - pleasure, you can't argue with that, even though all of us feel like crap we still manage to go through our daily lifes without killing ourselves that means we still find our lifes pleasurable.


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

I have suicidal thoughts every day. And I mean, every day. I've had them lying in a gutter, lying on a beach in St Lucia with a beautiful woman, you name it - I've had it. Initially it was a fantasy that I could commit if the dreaded DR ever returned. Lately it's just because, I dunno, I'm so tired of being anxious, and not ill enough to recieve help or squander my life away in a haze of booze and women like I want to.

I've been like this for 15 years, and have 'only' tried to top myself twice. Once when my ex-wife threw me out of the house, and another time more recently when I was at my poor mothers, drunk out of my brain, furious at myself and life.

Life, for me, is never enough. I've had it all, everything I could possibly want (except for vague dreams of being published), and it's still not satisfied me. I doubt anything will. If fact, I know nothing will. How selfish and concieted is that ? In a strange way, DR actually made me feel more alive, because I was savagely determined not to miss out on life..and perhaps, in a morbid way, I enjoyed the dramatic tragedy of it all.....

Oh to be content. Or at peace. One of them will do.


----------



## Guest (Apr 26, 2005)

Martinelv said:


> I've been like this for 15 years, and have 'only' tried to top myself twice. Once when my ex-wife threw me out of the house, and another time more.


To "top" oneself means to kill oneself in British? These Britishisms are _agonizingly _charming.

Do you say "to off oneself" over there?

While I'm at it, what exactly does it mean "to talk up" something in Britspeak? The BBC radio guy has me confused, always sounds drunk, and is very saucy with the ladies.


----------



## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

"It is always consoling to think of suicide: in that way one gets through many a bad night."

Friedrich Nietzsche

Have thought and thought about this thread. For many of us here, when the days are bad and they just go on and on, we begin to let our minds freefall into the fantasy of suicide. As for me, I am happy when the depression lifts and I find myself in a world much better than it looked the day before.

When we are thriving, we are all such wonderful, unique creatures. I hope we all continue to have the ability to move past the dark times.

As some of you may remember, I went to the funeral of a friend's 19 year old daughter around Thanksgiving. Suicide. I think so often we think of doing it, but that we can then come back and witness the affect it had on people. Hoping they finally saw our pain. But you don't, you just don't come back from it. It is final and permanent.

Dreamer, as I have told you before, my heart goes out for your continued suffering over the tragedy that occured to your friend.

My best to you all,
terri


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

> To "top" oneself means to kill oneself in British?


Yes, it does.



> Do you say "to off oneself" over there?


Never heard it myself, but I suspect the upper classes might do.



> While I'm at it, what exactly does it mean "to talk up" something in Britspeak?


To talk something up is to make something or someone sound good, or more usually, better than it actually is. That'll be ?10 please.



> always sounds drunk, and is very saucy with the ladies.


You couldn't come up with a better stereotype of us Brits. Sums us up to a 't'.


----------



## Guest (Apr 27, 2005)

martin, what is that weird L thingie? I don' see it on my keyboard...

in all seriousness though, it's my impression that people who consider and go through with a suicide do so in SPITE of how it will effect the people around them, not because of how they want those people to feel. It's usually an act of real desperation, not out of wanting to cause hurt or other extreme feelings among the survivors.

I think that a lot of people who decide to go through with a suicidal impulse feel a sudden sense of peace, esp. those struggling with mental health issues. Not that I consider it to be a legitimate option, but I can empathize with those who do.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

littlecrocodile said:


> martin, what is that weird L thingie? I don' see it on my keyboard...
> 
> in all seriousness though, it's my impression that people who consider and go through with a suicide do so in SPITE of how it will effect the people around them, not because of how they want those people to feel. It's usually an act of real desperation, not out of wanting to cause hurt or other extreme feelings among the survivors.
> 
> I think that a lot of people who decide to go through with a suicidal impulse feel a sudden sense of peace, esp. those struggling with mental health issues. Not that I consider it to be a legitimate option, but I can empathize with those who do.


Absolutely, and thank you *terri* for your support re: my friend. That has REALLY knocked me for a loop. As the days go by, the Mass has gone by, her burial, and now trying to clean out the house with her cousins... I am overwhelmed at her misery.

She was indeed mentally ill, but as with all of us, "looked perfectly fine." I knew she had problems. I really knew she was "different", as I was, her whole life.

In a sense her death was inevitable. I now know how seriuosly ill she was. I won't go into it. But she was beyond the end of her rope, and as you say, there really was no one to "punish" with her death. There was only misery ahead for her. She had no family left, she felt completely alone. She was in a horrendous caregiver situation alone, little money, financial problems.

She needed to be treated for her illness (life long OCD that I didn't realize the horrible extent of) and for her depression, but that never happened in her family/her community/her mind that wasn't an option.

I'm just rambling on. I am really depressed over all of this. Truly. It is a god awful story that I'm not telling all of, and I don't know why. I can see exactly why she did what she did and why. She was in terrible shape.

Suffice it to say, I agree with terri's quote of Neitzche (never can spell that dude's name). I've felt that way many times. Now I have a different sort of depression that my friend didn't intend to leave me with. I know that. It's that loss of motivation, not giving a hoot sort of depression. I guess it's the same. I can't really cry either. Just in little bits.

What absolutely stuns me is she had come to that place of "peace". We all initially thought this was something that was set off by a particular event. But I see she planned this for about two months. She carefully left things behind for me -- a bag marked with my name and address. Some personal things marked with my name. Left a long suicide note -- a great bit of which was rambling -- but only 20% of suicides leave notes. Found that out in my support group.

And what bugs the Hell out of me is she dropped off everyone's radar on 12/8/2004 ... she and her mother were found dead on 12/15/2004 by police that had to break into the house at the request of a choir member when she didn't show to direct the choir rehearsal.

Her last email to me was "completely normal". It was. And her timing, gave her more than enough time for no one to worry about her for at least a week. That genuinely freaks me out.

She gave no threats, no warning, but was preparing for this with calm and organization.

And I swear to you, her life ... it was in terrible shape. At that point, that week, there was no turning back, there were no more choices. That is how it is for some people.

Odd, but I always thought I'd be the one to "top" myself, out of our gang of girlfriends. Never would have suspected her.

*Ah and the "little L" that Martin has, littlecrocodile* refers to British currency, the pound, versus $. I forgot where you live but you wouldn't have it on your keyboard if it isn't a Brit keyboard.

I am totally wiped out though. The devastation of a death in this manner is numbing, stunning, incomprehensible. And, no, no threats, no warning, though in hindsight it all makes terrible sense.

Best,
D


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Also, wanted to say. Granted people commit suicide for various reasons, but in the study of suicide, even those who threaten suicide, frequently commit suicide at some point.

With young people, they frequently say nothing. Or it is clear they have a mental illness, and the end is inevitable.

My friend gave no threat, no warning, and had absolutely no one in mind to punish with this. Her life was a mess, and in reality, literally, was a horrror.

There was a long discussion about suicide on this board a long time back. Don't know if it's archived. But I had a lot of research on suicide. Threats should be taken seriuosly. Also frequently, a person who commits suicide has just been to their psychiatrist, usually to get a refill of medication which they use to kill themselves.

The two main choices of suicide here in the US are guns and poisoning. Men tend to choose guns, and women poisoning. Don't quote me, but I believe that is accurate in the main. Not to say that is caste in stone.

A suicide threat should be taken seriously. Even though granted there are those with certain illnesses who use the threat to manipulate people.

Any good doctor takes a suicide threat seriously.

Again, my friend made no threat. She came to terms with what and how she was going to do it, and did it. Very methodically. Never letting on, save in highsight, she gave things away, etc. She exhibited a few hallmark signs that everyone missed. And if we had tried to stop her... well we couldn't have. We would have hastened what happened.

She wanted to leave, and she did.


----------



## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

I'm glad you had a chance to talk somemore about your friend, Dreamer. I wanted to sort of "take back" my sentence about doing it to see how others would feel. We do think it was this way in this paricular kid's life due to some things that had occurred. I am very sure, as you and others have stated and I have thought, that by the time most people make the decision they feel...at that moment in time...it is their best option.

Yeah, so, I wanted to add that because it did appear just like I wrote it, but not as I meant it.

Ummmm, where's the confused emoticon ? lol.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Terri,
Not referring to you, I think I was responding to littlecrocodile responding to Martin, so it's all Martin's fault 8)

And believe me, one thing I never really thought of myself, when thinking of suicide, was how anyone else would feel, I just wanted to go to sleep.

Now, I see how painful, confusing, absolutely mind boggling it is that this person was here one moment and gone the next ... and not like an auto accident even, but at her own hand, and took her mother with her.

I still don't believe it, and it's been 4 months.

Is this what you were looking for? It's how I feel, LOL. 
---------> :?

No worries. 8) I appreciate your support. No one knows what to say. There is nothing to say.

I will say this incident has made me think that if I ever see suicide as an option in the future, it will indeed be the absolutely last consideration on my mind.

This was some strange lesson for me. One of our mutual friends is having a very hard time talking about this. She clams up. I'm a yakker :roll: but I think it helps!

Also, like your signature, t*.
L,
D :shock:


----------



## Guest (Apr 28, 2005)

I knew this girl, from going out. I would talk with her. Not much. But she knew I understood her and she had many many psychological problems.
Then one night when I was out, she came and talk with me a little bit. I told her there was someone I knew who could help her with her problems, a therapist. I gave her my phonenumber to call me, so I could give the therapist's number to her. She said she would phone me that monday for the number. She didnt phone. Then that tuesday I was at the bar and heard that she had committed suicide that monday. She had hung herself.
I couldnt go to her funeral.

When I was still in highschool, I was about 17 years old, I had this classmate. I didnt have much contact with him. Only when I had geography classes he sat next to me. He was a very intelligent and beautiful guy, wrote poems, stories, novels. Teachers were amazed with his literary skills. He was known for that.
When I had a schoolbreak of two weeks I heard from my sisters friend that he had shot himself through his head. He first shot his dog. His father was a vicar. I missed the funeral, because it all happened in this schoolbreak and I heard about it after he had been cremated.

I occasionally saw my teacher for Dutch literature from highschool in the gay scene in the city where I now live. This was about 6 years ago.
We talked and I met his boyfriend. I got along with his bf very well.
We met at the bar, and one time I came over for dinner at their home. It was quite cool to do that, especially since it was my former teacher, who was out of the closet at the time I was in highschool and followed his classes.
His bf had psychological problems. He visited a therapist, that I would have therapy from later.
Unfortunately they moved to another city. Not shortly after this, the bf hung himself. I went to his funeral.

Before I went working as a bartender and DJ at a gayclub in my city, there was a girl working there. I liked her because she was very open about her herself. She was very sympathetic and well-liked by many people. She hung herself. I went to her funeral as well.


----------



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

Dear Wendy,

Dear GOD in Heaven. Yup suicide is prevalent. I'm sorry you've been touched by it that way so many times.

I have no clue what to say.

Also forgot hanging. In my support group, one young boy did that.

Oh, GOD.

L,
D 8)


----------



## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

Jesus, so much suffering.

I don't know what to say either. Sometimes all this sadness chokes off breath.


----------



## Guest (Apr 29, 2005)

Dreamer, Martin, I don't know what to say either. 
Just that I thought this thread was a good place to write it down.

Dreamer I never had someone that close, as your friend of 25 years, commit suicide. I know thats a whole 'nother story and may I say Im glad I didnt. Take care with that.

Love
Wendy


----------

