# Psychologist told me I won't recover. Help.



## jessie1133 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hey guys Iv had dr from Molly for 12 months. I finally got the courage to see a phycologist... I waited so long for the appointment and I thought it was going to be good. But it was horrible. Huge basically told me that it's a neurological disorder and sinse I took MDMA (it could have been anything) I won't recover. I can't remember the last time I cried so hard ;(.. I told him that other people recover and he was like they smoked weed blah blah. Iv talked to a lot of you guys and you guys have givin me hope. But I wanted hope from a PH.D In person and I left with no hope ((((((((( please help me.. Advice? Any of you reoccur from Molly aka xtc dr??


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

jessie1133 said:


> Hey guys Iv had dr from Molly for 12 months. I finally got the courage to see a phycologist... I waited so long for the appointment and I thought it was going to be good. But it was horrible. Huge basically told me that it's a neurological disorder and sinse I took MDMA (it could have been anything) I won't recover. I can't remember the last time I cried so hard ;(.. I told him that other people recover and he was like they smoked weed blah blah. Iv talked to a lot of you guys and you guys have givin me hope. But I wanted hope from a PH.D In person and I left with no hope ((((((((( please help me.. Advice? Any of you reoccur from Molly aka xtc dr??


What a horrible thing to say. I was told that when I was 16 by a psychiatrist.

I would find another therapist. Another doctor. I didn't get proper early intervention, and I think that is CRITICAL to getting better. MY DP/DR are not drug-induced as well. Also, there are medications that may help. Check out an HPPD sites as well. HPPDonline I believe. Or message Odisa here.

Also a Ph.D. is not the same as an M.D. I have also found more support from an ACSW (Clinical Social Worker).

Look for someone else. I'm sorry but this person is useless.


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

Andrea44 said:


> I do think it's fairly neurological. I don't really believe in full recovery, you will most likely always be "prone" to developing DP again in the future even after remission and will always have to watch yourself. There's a lot of people like me who's DPd has been chronic and fluctuating for many years so it's one of those things that doesn't just go away for everybody.
> 
> I think you can achieve remission from symptoms with appropriate intervention so the most upsetting aspects of the disorder don't bother you. Don't hope for a cure, just keep working towards finding a treatment plan that will help you manage symptoms.


I agree with this as well. But the most damaging thing for me was my mother's lack of assistance for years -- she was a psychiatrist and wouldn't let me SEE a psychiatrist (thought she knew I had DP/DR, anxiety, depression). Then she sent me to her colleague who told me DP is not treatable.

My mother was treating individuals with DP/DR with psychoanalysis for years.

You need someone on your side, regardless of outcome.

I have not achieved a cure, but improved quality of life.

Switch doctors. Honestly.

It's like having cancer and you walk into the office and the doctor says "You are incurable." I have had cancer and have been encouraged consistently. I am "free and clear" in 2015 it will be five years out. I still take a medication. But the optimism from all of my doctors, their caring, and group support, has helped me, even though I know, my life expectancy IS lower than other women my age. On the other hand, I could die at 100 from a heart attack, lol.

I was less afraid of the cancer. And still am. I have some peace about it.


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## sirlee (Mar 5, 2014)

i think that the fact it was drug induced makes it more likely that you will recover, and faster, than someone who got it from regular life stressors. That psychologist is whack, and honestly i just heard from a DP researcher that

"Based on research, although some people experience DP for the first time during or after consuming certain drugs, we believe that it is profound anxiety OR conflict feelings before, during, or after this drug experience which facilities the DP experience, rather than the drug itself. There is no evidence that drugs cause permanent DP or anything like that so researchers understand that your symptoms are reversible and are no longer being caused by drugs you may have taken in the past. I hope this may relieve your anxiety."

stay sober for a really really long time, drink lots of water, exercise, and talk all of your feelings and demons out, you MUST do this, this is the most important thing, and send that psychologist to hell, what a shitty and close minded thing to say. try to find a psychologist, not psychiatrist, you need to talk all of your demons out.

go to www.repersonalize.com, contact Emma and tell her her your story, she might be able to give you some info, she's a Ph.D i'm pretty sure.
Best of luck


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## *Dreamer* (Feb 18, 2014)

I would only add re: "stay sober for a very long time" -- stay sober, always. If you have this predisposition ... well perosnally, if my DP/DR were drug induced (I avoided mind altering drugs since I became aware of them in Grammar School -- pot was being experimented with) -- I would never go back to taking that drug.

Also, I have tried psychiatric meds in the past that caused the DP to get worse. I stopped taking them as well.

Caffeine makes me feel worse -- I love my damned coffee, but I know I feel worse when I have it. I have no other caffeine other than my coffee.

I drink very rarely as it makes me feel worse.
Oh, and thank God I never smoked cigarettes. Those damned things are bad for you -- they can kill you. And I know people who found them the most difficult thing to quit. And some friends have lung cancer from them, and others have had heart attack and stroke. You don't need that! LOL.

IMHO.


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## Parachutes333 (Dec 13, 2010)

Hey jessie, you dont have any neurological problem. If anything, the food products/alcohol they sell in the grocery are more dangerous that doing molly once. YOU MUST STOP WORRYING. Time is the greatest healer there is. 3 years from now, you are gonna look back and laugh about problems you thought you once had. That doctor sounds like an idiot to be honest. First of all, a psychologist deals with emotional problems. You will recover. If you are worried about your brain, you should not be because it is mind over matter. But if you are still worried, the body heals itself. There is something called neuroplasticity where your brain adapts and grows ...... i once thought i had braindamage from smoking weed that was laced. I wanted a brainscan and shit. Now time has healed and now I know most of my problems were anxiety, worry. If you think you have brain damage, you will have it. Thats the power of the mind. If you forget about it, then you are cured. Trust me on this. Let the time pass and heal. The less you know, the better. Pick up a hobby


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## marry1985 (Dec 1, 2013)

*Dreamer* said:


> What a horrible thing to say. I was told that when I was 16 by a psychiatrist.
> 
> I would find another therapist. Another doctor. I didn't get proper early intervention, and I think that is CRITICAL to getting better. MY DP/DR are not drug-induced as well. Also, there are medications that may help. Check out an HPPD sites as well. HPPDonline I believe. Or message Odisa here.
> 
> ...


So a psychiatrist told you that you won t recover?How old are you?And you have the same symptoms since you ve been 16?Thanks


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## rocketiakman (Aug 26, 2013)

jessie1133 said:


> Hey guys Iv had dr from Molly for 12 months. I finally got the courage to see a phycologist... I waited so long for the appointment and I thought it was going to be good. But it was horrible. Huge basically told me that it's a neurological disorder and sinse I took MDMA (it could have been anything) I won't recover. I can't remember the last time I cried so hard ;(.. I told him that other people recover and he was like they smoked weed blah blah. Iv talked to a lot of you guys and you guys have givin me hope. But I wanted hope from a PH.D In person and I left with no hope ((((((((( please help me.. Advice? Any of you reoccur from Molly aka xtc dr??


Hello my friend, i have just been triggered from your post, but thats cool with me. You want to know why? because i know this feeling will dissolve. Be it distraction, be it i just get lost in the flow with something. Now to this day i love reassurance, who doesnt? i try to get it all the time, but i stopped asking if i will be cured, because first of all, you are not experiencing dp/dr %100 of the time, if this was the case, you'd need like a guide dog or something, ud need someone to walk you around, and anyway, basically you're not always disassociated, its just not how it works, it just feels like you always are because well we pretty much pay attention to it as much as we can, and it happens often because thats how we choose to filter our world because we dont know any other way to do it with these symptoms. But i've had for like 4 years now, got it when i was 17, 21 now. and its just gotten so much better, i just got back from a trip to Spain for 2 weeks with a school. i live in LA. I got dp/dr from weed i believe, because thats when the whole world collapsed on itself. but Wow i just got back from spain, a trip and tour of spain. Do i feel like i experienced the trip? OFCOARSE i do. i honestly dont know how i would have done this even a year ago, but i managed to enjoy this fuckin trip, coming from the most pessamistic person ever. not really, but its hard for me to believe in postiive things. But anyways i was open spaces, i was in planes for 11 hours, i was just in the weirdest tunnels taking subways, i was in the sky on a skyline box thingy, and i managed to just experience it, i might upload some pics. But anyways, im not trying to boast im just saying wow, i went from thinking fuck this dp is my source of life now, to having just gone to another country and dealt with myself just fine. And the part of your post that made me want to comment is that you say "Huge basically told me that it's a neurological disorder and sinse I took MDMA (it could have been anything) I won't recover" wow lets look at this again. Basically...won't...Recover... idk how i feel about this. To me this feels sort of black and white. Like some sort of cognitive distortion, but on the end of the pyschologist? Yes, sorry to say but you need to find someone else. I talked to a pyschologist who wasnt the most trustworthy looking person, no it wasnt even that it just seemed that i was one of the thousands she had to see, and she had so much confidence i could conquer this feeling. When they say conquer i think they mean learn to accept it happened, learn to not let your life get ruined by it. you cannot forget this happened, but itll just be like a fucking boo boo when ur three, you fell out of a tree and cracked ur knee open, it hurt so bad, you were terrified and remembered the story for years, and told everyone about it, but when you turned 17 and thought back to it, it just happened, but the pain isnt killing you, its just that huge memory. IDk im ranting but check out this cognitive distortions, and check out a self cbt evaluation/tool to help you out. Anyway im thirsty. i really hope you can chill because its alright, if you can understand this phrase "evertyings gonna be real chill" then why not just sit back take a deep breath and realize that you dont have to conquer everything right at this moment. you can just start fwith that breath. anyways love you man or girl. im here.


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## Jonngliniak (Jun 11, 2013)

You think it's possible to fully recover dr.b?


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## jessie1133 (Oct 7, 2013)

I just feel like barfing I'm so depressed right now. All I want is to recover ;(... I want to be one of the lucky ones but all these professionals are telling me I won't. Am I getting false hope or are the doctors right! I'm sick of DR... I want to see the world the way I did for 18 years more then anything.


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## Jonngliniak (Jun 11, 2013)

What do you mean by that doc


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## sirlee (Mar 5, 2014)

jessie1133 said:


> I just feel like barfing I'm so depressed right now. All I want is to recover ;(... I want to be one of the lucky ones but all these professionals are telling me I won't. Am I getting false hope or are the doctors right! I'm sick of DR... I want to see the world the way I did for 18 years more then anything.


yo, i have said the same thing over and over.
seriously, believe me the person i was 12 months ago and the person i am now... i never believed i would be healed, let alone gain my social abilities back. I evenn have a gf now. There is nothing you can do right now but fix it yourself. We will be your support man, but you need to start detoxing the fuck out, entirely, physically and mentally. Why were you taking MDMA at 18? you do a lot of drugs before this?


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## Linguos (Jan 12, 2012)

Wow, this is a really discouraging thread.


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## Linguos (Jan 12, 2012)

Does your DP fluctuate ever? Especially is it ever better like in the morning or at home? Does it get worse when you're out or exhausted, maybe at night? It may be an indication that it's purely stress induced. Not that it's proper to advocate it but maybe try different classes of pills like benzos or amphetamines to verify if it greatly lapses in intensity while you're temporarily peaking to prove that it's only psychological. With this confidence you can move on to CBT and such.


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

Chill out - your doctor is an egotistical quack.

I know of cases where schizophrenia brought on by a prank-dosing by 20 hits of acid was cured, and this know-nothing is telling you a little molly dooms you.

Fuck him and his western medicine mind-fuck bullshit.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Read the recovery stories and follow the advice in them.

Numerous of people have made full recoveries from DP/DR, drug induced or otherwise.


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## Braud (May 29, 2014)

jessie1133 said:


> I just feel like barfing I'm so depressed right now. All I want is to recover ;(... I want to be one of the lucky ones but all these professionals are telling me I won't. Am I getting false hope or are the doctors right! I'm sick of DR... I want to see the world the way I did for 18 years more then anything.


Hey Jessie1133, maybe i can give you some hope.

I had a multidrug experience about 2,5 years ago, mdma included, and a few times over the past years. After that experience, I came back a different person. At first I thought I had been enlightened is some way but it hasn't been a nice existence since then, and last december I have reached the bottom, I believe. After I started reading posts in this website (a few days now) I totally identified myself with the symptoms and experiences that people describe to have, so I'm almost convinced that I have DP/DR.

I was feeling so bad that I began an homeopathic treatment with a guy that cured my asthma when i was 12, and after 2 weeks I felt so alive, so different, that I knew for a fact something was wrong with me. The thing is the next day, because of a stupid thing, I felt it all come back again, like a pressure in my brain, and have been like this until today. I had to move because of my job, so i couldn't resume treatment with him.

But at least I have that day when I felt really alive, so it gives me hope that this condition is not permanent and probably not for you as well. I intend to get strong in all ways (mentally, physically, spiritually, etc.) so when I manage to get better again I can stay that way.


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## gasspanicc (Mar 21, 2012)

hes pretty right, but u can make things easier for urself. by exercising, not ruminating, etc etc


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## jessie1133 (Oct 7, 2013)

So what everyone is saying that Iv been given nothing but false hope....?


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

jessie1133 said:


> So what everyone is saying that Iv been given nothing but false hope....?


No, you just need to take the time to find what works for you.

Recovery is entirely possible.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2014)

Dr B said:


> These alternative rememdies are not helpful and are psuedoscience. As you note yourself, ultimately , it did not work. I believe in being supportive, but not at the expense of truth or giving people false hope....


Typical response from a naive science based dr. Do you honestly think millions of people are wrong, or mislead when it comes to their positive experiences with alternative remedies? Or is it just a coincidence that alternative remedies worked for them? I suppose the billion or so people who've used Chinese medicine are also mislead?

In regards to your ridiculous comments about homeopathy. If the science based world doesn't understand how it works, it doesn't necessarily mean it's 'not helpful' or 'false hope'. I suppose now you're going to throw that recent study carried out in Britain, into homeopathy at me. What a joke.. Do you think the royal family's going to throw away over one hundred years of belief and proof that homeopathy works b/c a bunch of 'scientists' came up with that garbage? Lets face it.. research can be steered in almost an direction to get the results you're after.

There's more to this world than the science based medical treatment doc&#8230;. If you could only open your eyes and see outside of the box you're in&#8230;. Like I said to my psychologist a couple of weeks ago "while the scientific world is still trying to work out what dissociation actually is, there's a bunch of great therapist out there who are helping people heal, right here, right now. I know who I'm going to seek for help." lol

Good luck with your research. See you in about 10 or 20 years when you've got something out there that may actually help people with dissociative disorders. Until then.. maybe keep your stupid unfounded beliefs about alternative treatments to yourself.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2014)

jessie1133 said:


> Hey guys Iv had dr from Molly for 12 months. I finally got the courage to see a phycologist... I waited so long for the appointment and I thought it was going to be good. But it was horrible. Huge basically told me that it's a neurological disorder and sinse I took MDMA (it could have been anything) I won't recover. I can't remember the last time I cried so hard ;(.. I told him that other people recover and he was like they smoked weed blah blah. Iv talked to a lot of you guys and you guys have givin me hope. But I wanted hope from a PH.D In person and I left with no hope ((((((((( please help me.. Advice? Any of you reoccur from Molly aka xtc dr??


The answer here is very simple. Find a psychologist or other therapist who can help. Keep looking until you find that person.

The molly most likely triggered your dp, not caused it.


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Haumea said:


> Chill out - your doctor is an egotistical quack.
> 
> I know of cases where schizophrenia brought on by a prank-dosing by 20 hits of acid was cured, and this know-nothing is telling you a little molly dooms you.
> 
> Fuck him and his western medicine mind-fuck bullshit.


Shit !!! Can u plz tell me more on that story about someone being pranced with 20 hits of acid and then getting schiz !!! That's fuking awfull and terrible !!!


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## missjess (Jun 1, 2012)

Oh oh another debate between scientific minded and spiritual minded!! 
Hahahhaa


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## Cotillion (Oct 23, 2012)

jessie1133 said:


> Hey guys Iv had dr from Molly for 12 months. I finally got the courage to see a phycologist... I waited so long for the appointment and I thought it was going to be good. But it was horrible. Huge basically told me that it's a neurological disorder and sinse I took MDMA (it could have been anything) I won't recover. I can't remember the last time I cried so hard ;(.. I told him that other people recover and he was like they smoked weed blah blah. Iv talked to a lot of you guys and you guys have givin me hope. But I wanted hope from a PH.D In person and I left with no hope ((((((((( please help me.. Advice? Any of you reoccur from Molly aka xtc dr??


There's a really good book about recovering from anxiety/dp by a sufferer, who got it because of drug use and had it for 10 years. It's called A Life at Last, I highly recommend you to buy it (I think it costs only like 15 bucks). It's really good.

Here's a website of that book: http://www.anxietynomore.co.uk/the_book.html

By the way, you should talk to a lawyer or something and see if you could scare that "therapist" with a lawsuit, because what he said to you is traumatizing and false.



Pyrite said:


> No, you just need to take the time to find what works for you.
> 
> Recovery is *inevitable*.


Fixed. 



Dr B said:


> Its wrong for people to say its 'just anxiety'


Oh yes, it's very wrong to claim something like that, even though almost every person who has recovered confirms it. Instead, let's scare people by claiming that it's an independent condition which will never go away, unless of course, scientists invent a magic pill.


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## Braud (May 29, 2014)

Dr B said:


> These alternative rememdies are not helpful and are psuedoscience. As you note yourself, ultimately , it did not work. I believe in being supportive, but not at the expense of truth or giving people false hope....


Well I'm not trying to prove which approach actually works. Maybe you're right but nevertheless the homeopathy showed me two things: that there is actually something wrong with me, and that it's not permanent as I managed to feel good again, even if it was for a day. If it works for some people, why is it false hope?


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2014)

Selig said:


> Yeah, what a quack! Only a PhD in neurology, obviously no idea what he's talking about.
> 
> I feel sorry for people who buy into homeopathy, which is ironically a huge market based on conjecture and half-assed research.


I doubt homeopathy would be considered a huge market Selig. The remedies are mostly less than 15 bucks for a hundred, and considering I take no more than 1 pill every 2 weeks&#8230; not much of a market there. The cost of seeing a homeopath? A hundred dollars every 2 or 3 months (for a 2 to 3 hour consultation).. Again, that's hardly a huge market.

Homeopathy based on conjecture and half assed research? Really? Do you honestly believe that? Homeopathy has been around for over 200 years you know? That's a long time for people to be sucked in to a treatment method that's only based on conjecture and half assed research. I doubt any treatment method would last that long if it's efficacy was questionable. It sure ain't questionable in my (and my children's) 25 years of experience.

You want a huge market? Take a look at one of the big pharmaceutical companies.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2014)

Selig said:


> "Americans spend about $34 billion annually on alternative medicine, according to the first national estimate of such out-of-pocket spending in more than a decade."
> 
> "Even in these recessionary times, a great deal of money is being spent on some forms of complementary and alternative medicine whose efficacy is questionable," said Bruce Silverglade, director of legal affairs for the Center for Science in the Public Interest, a consumer advocacy group."
> 
> ...


I see so much anger and hatred in your post.


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2014)

Selig said:


> And yes, I do believe homeopathy is a lot of bullshit. I believe most of it is anecdotal based on the placebo effect. People want it to work for them. There's natural ways to better yourself mentally and physically, but I do not advocate that these ways are always the best option for certain people, particularly ones with no scientific backing.


Just a little something you may not know about 'the placebo effect'. The placebo effect doesn't work on babies or animals. Yet homeopathy does.. go figure??


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2014)

You know what doc? Maybe you are right about everything here?

Have you ever thought about organising a string of worldwide seminars where you can get the opportunity to stand up in front of 100's of millions of Chinese people who use Chinese medicine and all the homeopaths (and their healthy patients), all the naturopaths, all the osteopaths, in fact everyone in the whole world who've ever used some form of alternative medicine, so you can show can show them the error of their ways? I think this message (fact) is very important and needs to be spread.

Fancy that&#8230; we've ALL been tricked. It just a coincidence we feel better.


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## heartless (Apr 29, 2013)

OP - please remain calm. 
All I can say to you is that I have read few recovery stories of people who got molly induced dp dr.
My intuition tells me that this psychologist doesn't understand dp dr. Probably Haven't even heard of the condition. She Probably assumed that you are brain damaged.

My therapist probably thought the same. After I described my symptoms to her she set me an appointment with a psychiatrist, probably to see if therapy would be of any use. After my appointment, diagnosis and conclusion she told me that we are going to tackle this like an anxiety disorder.

It's been a little over a year, and I'm fully recovered.

My therapist, in contrast to yours, acted responsibly and didn't use unverified assumptions as the ultimate truth, I assume.

Have u even asked her what she knows about this condition other than the "fact" that you'll never recover?

Besides, there are some meds that can get you do a much better point. 
I've seen a guy With bipolar disorder who developed dp dr 30 years ago, was prescribed Lamictal and he's much much better now.


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## heartless (Apr 29, 2013)

Philos said:


> You know what doc? Maybe you are right about everything here?
> 
> Have you ever thought about organising a string of worldwide seminars where you can get the opportunity to stand up in front of 100's of millions of Chinese people who use Chinese medicine and all the homeopaths (and their healthy patients), all the naturopaths, all the osteopaths, in fact everyone in the whole world who've ever used some form of alternative medicine, so you can show can show them the error of their ways? I think this message (fact) is very important and needs to be spread.
> 
> Fancy that&#8230; we've ALL been tricked. It just a coincidence we feel better.


Philos.... homeopathy is a money machine that in contrast to modern medicine, is based on virtually nothing.

Just like this new "solar freakin roadways".


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Philos said:


> You know what doc? Maybe you are right about everything here?
> 
> Have you ever thought about organising a string of worldwide seminars where you can get the opportunity to stand up in front of 100's of millions of Chinese people who use Chinese medicine and all the homeopaths (and their healthy patients), all the naturopaths, all the osteopaths, in fact everyone in the whole world who've ever used some form of alternative medicine, so you can show can show them the error of their ways? I think this message (fact) is very important and needs to be spread.
> 
> Fancy that&#8230; we've ALL been tricked. It just a coincidence we feel better.


Chinese medicine? You mean like the rhinoceros horn that can cure everything from cancer to erectile dysfunction? Or any of the other dozens of animals that are being driven to extinction because people are convinced that they have some kind of healing powers.

The truth in any of of these various "-paths" is highly muddled by centuries superstition.

If it were more refined then these practices would be taken seriously.

What I find particularity funny is that if you took any of the functional compounds in these plants and sold them in bottles under their chemical name, then people into homeopathy would put their nose up to them.

A lot of modern medicine dose exactly that, we aren't just pulling these compounds out of thin air, they are inspired by nature.

If I remember correctly, the first aspirin-like compound was isolated from oils in willow bark that had been used for centuries as a form of mild pain relief. That oil was studied and the portion that provided pain relief was identified and synthesized independently of the oil making it far more effective and easier to produce.


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## Meticulous (Jul 30, 2013)

My DP/DR was influenced by magic mushrooms. I recovered for 2 weeks, everything returned to norm.

Tell your psychologist that he/she won't be getting your money any longer.


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## Meticulous (Jul 30, 2013)

To everyone getting in heated arguments on DPSH lately..


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## Haumea (Jul 11, 2009)

Evidence, schmevidence.

Western science and medicine have a long, rich history of denying, ignoring and brushing aside evidence that doesn't fit the prevailing paradigms. If you are unaware of that history, you may consider educating yourself.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2014)

It appears scientific outcomes of published articles can and have been manipulated to give a desired result. Dr Colin Ross has been interviewed and explained how and why this can happen. Also Hubby Bear gave us a couple of links to articles that showed the same. Seems money's often a big driver in the desired outcome.

http://www.independe...ts-9035740.html

http://www.theguardi...held-mps-report

So how could we not be confused? Why should we believe one doctor over another?

And what I don't understand is, what gives the scientific community the right to claim the definition of 'truth'? ie, If something doesn't measure up to 'our truth' (to have a published article), then it's untrue, false, misleading, lies, or conjecture?

What about people who believe in a God or Gods? Is it fair they feel insulted as well, just b/c their truth doesn't match the truth of the scientific world?

I see a very narrow minded community in the scientific world, unable to accept anything without their version of 'proof'. This has been a real eye opener...

Think I'll stick to my intuition when I can.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> *Unable to accept anything that doesn't provide tangible, objective conclusions.
> 
> This is correct. I truly hope this changes over time, the board was not like this years ago.


So I have to accept that I have incurable neurological disorder to no longer qualify as ill informed?

The thing that's been bother me lately is being constantly told that recovery is wishful thinking and all I can do is get really good at coping.


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## Jonngliniak (Jun 11, 2013)

wtf? Most people who agree with you selig are the ones who think they know it all. Lol Selig i definitely agree with you but Im going to stop coming on this forum because it is actually very aggravating to see people who think they know the brain when we don't even know shit about it.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> On the contrary, people I speak with (neuroscientists, psychologists, physicians) all seem to validate my opinions on depersonalization. I am not narrow minded, how can you be when you accept all viable angles?
> 
> I'm not telling you to accept anything. I'm saying my view on depersonalization is that remission is possible and likely for many people, but this does not mean the susceptibility to experiencing it again vanishes. The only situation I can think of where I would support that would be an organic neurological issue.
> 
> ...


I've never once said that relapses were impossible.

I just want to be able to discus recovery without Andrea chiming into say that people are probably just going to relapse, and that recovery is wishful thinking!

It feel like all of this debate is entirely based around the assumption that people don't believe in relapses, I've never said relapses were in possible, and I've rarely seen anyone else do the same!

Part of that assumption is that since we don't discuss relapses or the biological components, that we must not believe in them or something.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2014)

Selig said:


> *Unable to accept anything that doesn't provide tangible, objective conclusions.


You forgot to add&#8230;. 'Subject to change' in brackets.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2014)

Selig said:


> I have read literally no literature concluding that processing emotions or pent up trauma will provide absolute and permanent relief. There is a correlation, but that doesn't imply causation. I say this because this seems to be the general attitude here.


That's Harris Harrington's theory, which got more popular on this site do to Fearless.

I personally wrote my whole life's story like HH's program said and I don't really feel different so I'm not 100% on the bandwagon about the trauma theory anymore.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

seafoam neon said:


> That's Harris Harrington's theory, which got more popular on this site do to Fearless.
> 
> I personally wrote my whole life's story like HH's program said and I don't really feel different so I'm not 100% on the bandwagon about the trauma theory anymore.


The point of writing you life's story should be to gain understanding and perspective on your current life and issues, so that you can make the necessary changes.

Knowledge without application is useless.

(I said I was leaving for the summer, but I'll just go with drastically reduced presence because there are people I like talking to.)


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> Unfortunately, I've read nothing from professionals with actual studies. The Harrington program information appears sound, but I'm not convinced it is the answer when applies to DPD.
> 
> We know there is a correlation between those who suffer neglect et cetera as a child, but I see this as a stressor. This means I believe you can talk about your traumatic childhood until the cows come home, and you may remain depersonalized regardless.
> 
> I do not share the popular opinion that DPD is solely caused by repressed emotions etc. and can be mitigated through psychotherapy. I have seen cases where it did not apply.


Working with past issues is important because it's where many forms of chronic stress stem from.

However many emotional/psychological issues a person has are going to be a chronic stressor for them, and many of these are established early in a persons life.

Since you're saying that stressors are a crucial factor in DP/DR then psychotherapy is going be equally crucial.

Psychotherapy isn't about talking with someone for a month and having a epiphany that makes everything better, It's about developing a better understanding of yourself as a complex emotional being and making the changes needed for self improvement based on that information.

And I really feel NO ONE understands that, because the perception of psychotherapy around here is that's it all talk and happy thoughts.

Even the people here who are heavily invested in psychotherapy seem to think the same way.

It isn't like going to the doctors and get a prescription, most of the work has to be done by the patient outside of the office.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> This goes without saying for some. For others, it may do next to nothing. There is no guarantee psychotherapy will solve depersonalization.


The problem is when people do something like three talk therapy sessions and declare Psychotherapy useless, which is what I see more often than not.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

Selig said:


> In that situation, I would be inclined to agree. Psychotherapy should be consistent and progressive.


On top of that, the more people get into all the biological causes, the less open they are to look into anything psychology related, or at the very least, they won't see it as being important.

There is this idea that physical health impact mental health, but that mental health can never have any drastic impacts on physical health.

I'd be rich if I had a dime for every time I heard "DP/DR is to sever to be in anyway psychological!"

If that's the case then why have I seen so many dozens of recovery stories where people didn't see any improvement until they began doing changing their perception of the condition and bettering their lives?

And the reason I never bother to look into the underlying neurological cause is simply that I can't do anything with that information! All that I get out of it is an obnoxious feeling of helplessness.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2014)

Pyrite said:


> The point of writing you life's story should be to gain understanding and perspective on your current life and issues, so that you can make the necessary changes.
> 
> Knowledge without application is useless.
> 
> (I said I was leaving for the summer, but I'll just go with drastically reduced presence because there are people I like talking to.)


The only thing I realized is that my life became worse from DP and anxiety.


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## Pyrite (Mar 25, 2014)

seafoam neon said:


> The only thing I realized is that my life became worse from DP and anxiety.


Why not read it again and look for patterns?

Your frustrated because you didn't have some amazing moment of enlightenment and clearing of DP/DR symptoms, which was a unrealistic expectation based on one person's experience.

DP and anxiety aren't supposed to improve your life, what matters is facing these issues so you come out out of them stronger, and the only way to do that is understanding what lead up to them and what currently fuels them by looking for patterns and connections, and having awareness of your life story is crucial for that.

You've far from wasted your time with this, you just need to apply it in a realistic and practical way, and that way is through steady self improvement based in self awareness.

Since writing your life's story, you've gained more self awareness then the vast majority of people ever will, and if you use it right it can be the key to recovery and success.


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