# Ive Lost My Mind!



## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Hey everyone.. I posted here a while ago about memory issues.. and I had a really good response.. helped me a lot.. but now they have gotten to a very very severe point.. and im starting to completely freak out once again. Here's just a few examples

I have no idea what i did this morning.. unless i really rack my brains.. and remember i went to class... but it seems like weeks ago that I went to class. Then After class is a bit of a blur.. I know I went to lunch.. I dont really know what made me decide to go there etc...

I had my friend over to my dorm room.. we talked for an hour.. I dont really recall much of the conversation.

I NEVER remember when things happened.. yesterday feels like a DECADE ago.. I never know who ive talked too and stuff.

If someone brings up a specific event like "remember doing this?" .. of course i remember.. but i dont remember when it happened.. specific details.. unless someone reminds me of those too.

Am I going absolutely insane? im freaking out.. i dont want to forget everything.. HELP ME


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Hey everyone.. I posted here a while ago about memory issues.. and I had a really good response.. helped me a lot.. but now they have gotten to a very very severe point.. and im starting to completely freak out once again. Here's just a few examples

I have no idea what i did this morning.. unless i really rack my brains.. and remember i went to class... but it seems like weeks ago that I went to class. Then After class is a bit of a blur.. I know I went to lunch.. I dont really know what made me decide to go there etc...

I had my friend over to my dorm room.. we talked for an hour.. I dont really recall much of the conversation.

I NEVER remember when things happened.. yesterday feels like a DECADE ago.. I never know who ive talked too and stuff.

If someone brings up a specific event like "remember doing this?" .. of course i remember.. but i dont remember when it happened.. specific details.. unless someone reminds me of those too.

Am I going absolutely insane? im freaking out.. i dont want to forget everything.. HELP ME


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

try to stop thinking about remembering all the time. stop trying to remember stuff. maybe every time you start trying to remember switch it to planning what you're going to do tomorrow or some time


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

try to stop thinking about remembering all the time. stop trying to remember stuff. maybe every time you start trying to remember switch it to planning what you're going to do tomorrow or some time


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah, thats true.. I AM obsessively trying to remember everything.. go through my day step by step.. go through my week.. its jsut scary cuz i honestly cant remember things.. and im really trying .


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Yeah, thats true.. I AM obsessively trying to remember everything.. go through my day step by step.. go through my week.. its jsut scary cuz i honestly cant remember things.. and im really trying .


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

stop trying


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## bat (Aug 18, 2004)

stop trying


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

id earlier been for a walk up the shops today,and bumped into my friend with his wife pushing there young baby...i was talking to them and i mentioned to them 'did you know i had my bike stolen saturday night' they said 'yes you told us about it sunday afternoon' now i knew id spoken to them but i didnt know if it was saturday or sunday or monday,in the past i would of panicked but these are just the usual memory problems that everyone goes through,we cant recall every little thing that happens its just impossible


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

id earlier been for a walk up the shops today,and bumped into my friend with his wife pushing there young baby...i was talking to them and i mentioned to them 'did you know i had my bike stolen saturday night' they said 'yes you told us about it sunday afternoon' now i knew id spoken to them but i didnt know if it was saturday or sunday or monday,in the past i would of panicked but these are just the usual memory problems that everyone goes through,we cant recall every little thing that happens its just impossible


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

The Symptom is not the inability to remember clearly.

The Symptom is your Obsession over having to Force Yourself To Try To Recall Events.

The obsessions will destroy you. Your life will become nothing except "checking" yourself to verify if you are sane.

You cannot check enough times or well enough or deeply enough to ever satisfy yourself. The instant you THINK you feel slightly comforted by your efforts, you will create more doubt that will require more closely monitored checking and re-verifying.

There is NO amount of successful remembering that would make you truly trust your ability to remember.

You have created an Obsession about the nature of memory and you have been sucked into the vortex of an evil trickster (your own mind playing games the way all obsessives' minds do)

Turn around and force your thinking to go in other areas.

You won't, of course.

You will read this and nod and really feel understood for a minute. You will see clearly that this is correct.

Then you will log off the Board and immediately go right back to thinking about this morning's events and seeing if you can remember "better" now that you felt a little calmer for a minute....

and the cycle will begin.

Again.

There is no mystery to recovering from symptoms of our thoughts.

But it is incredibly hard.

And most people will not do it.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

The Symptom is not the inability to remember clearly.

The Symptom is your Obsession over having to Force Yourself To Try To Recall Events.

The obsessions will destroy you. Your life will become nothing except "checking" yourself to verify if you are sane.

You cannot check enough times or well enough or deeply enough to ever satisfy yourself. The instant you THINK you feel slightly comforted by your efforts, you will create more doubt that will require more closely monitored checking and re-verifying.

There is NO amount of successful remembering that would make you truly trust your ability to remember.

You have created an Obsession about the nature of memory and you have been sucked into the vortex of an evil trickster (your own mind playing games the way all obsessives' minds do)

Turn around and force your thinking to go in other areas.

You won't, of course.

You will read this and nod and really feel understood for a minute. You will see clearly that this is correct.

Then you will log off the Board and immediately go right back to thinking about this morning's events and seeing if you can remember "better" now that you felt a little calmer for a minute....

and the cycle will begin.

Again.

There is no mystery to recovering from symptoms of our thoughts.

But it is incredibly hard.

And most people will not do it.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Um.....Janine? You say........"and most people will not do it." Why won't they? I have to believe that everybody here wants to get better, and would happily try whatever it takes. And yet there is something that prevents us from............happily trying whatever it takes.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2004)

Um.....Janine? You say........"and most people will not do it." Why won't they? I have to believe that everybody here wants to get better, and would happily try whatever it takes. And yet there is something that prevents us from............happily trying whatever it takes.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

because the human mind is more than we think it is.

Aspects of our minds do not want to stop obsessing - the obessions are serving a purpose for those aspects, and they are sneaky and tricky and determined....and who they are tricking is US (i.e., other aspects of mind, such as the conscious part)

We TRY to do something like stop the obsessive train, but we quickly say "oh, this is not going to work" or "this is too much, I can't do it so why try..." (and I KNOW it's hard...nearly impossibly hard. But...not impossible. what makes it impossible is that we don't stick with it)

The things we tell ourselves that allow us to NOT try to stick with it are more tricks. We believe we're sincere (this is never going to work, or this is too hard, no point in trying...I'll just take more meds, or stop the meds, or have a drink or stop the drink, etc...) but those are lies we are telling ourselves to keep the obsessions going.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

because the human mind is more than we think it is.

Aspects of our minds do not want to stop obsessing - the obessions are serving a purpose for those aspects, and they are sneaky and tricky and determined....and who they are tricking is US (i.e., other aspects of mind, such as the conscious part)

We TRY to do something like stop the obsessive train, but we quickly say "oh, this is not going to work" or "this is too much, I can't do it so why try..." (and I KNOW it's hard...nearly impossibly hard. But...not impossible. what makes it impossible is that we don't stick with it)

The things we tell ourselves that allow us to NOT try to stick with it are more tricks. We believe we're sincere (this is never going to work, or this is too hard, no point in trying...I'll just take more meds, or stop the meds, or have a drink or stop the drink, etc...) but those are lies we are telling ourselves to keep the obsessions going.

Peace,
Janine


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

Janine i know ive probably asked you this before

But how did you actually get better??

after today, i think recovery is almost impossible.

i don't even know what recovery is anymore


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

Janine i know ive probably asked you this before

But how did you actually get better??

after today, i think recovery is almost impossible.

i don't even know what recovery is anymore


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

Long term therapy (psychoanalytic) and that process SLOWLY over years...gave me enough insight into what I was doing to myself that I could work against it, and make major changes in myself.

There's no way to explain it in a post. It involved, for me, learning to re-examine many very important parts of my life, my past, my self, learning to LOOK at things differently, learning how I was keeping myself from seeing anything differently, watching/learning how I was fooling myself and how scared I was of SO much - things I sort of knew but didn't really understand.

Much of what I walked into therapy saying "oh, no, that is not part of the problem at all....not at all." turned out to be VERY important and very related to all my symtoms.

No body could convince me of course, but over time I watched myself in the therapy room in that relationship with that doctor, and I kept playing out so many of the same old games and repeated cycles...and it was eventually impossible NOT to see it.

Insights led to changes which led to my sort of "jumpstarting" myself. I had been frozen for a long time, more than from dp....frozen because I was so overly controlled and so damn SURE I knew myself inside and out....when I realized that there was much more going on in my mind that the stuff I was aware of, I could see that it was actually possible that my symptoms were being created within my own mind.

All that knowledge, understanding, etc...was enough to make the symptoms start dropping away. When I then started to RECREATE them again and again, I did the stuff listed above...I knew it was me doing it, and I knew what it took to stop it - to not buy into my own sense of being swept along. But I couldn't have ever done that without the other changes and insights, and again...the long term process of self-discovery.

No easy answer.

Short answer: long term therapy that really examined every aspect of how my mind worked.

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

Long term therapy (psychoanalytic) and that process SLOWLY over years...gave me enough insight into what I was doing to myself that I could work against it, and make major changes in myself.

There's no way to explain it in a post. It involved, for me, learning to re-examine many very important parts of my life, my past, my self, learning to LOOK at things differently, learning how I was keeping myself from seeing anything differently, watching/learning how I was fooling myself and how scared I was of SO much - things I sort of knew but didn't really understand.

Much of what I walked into therapy saying "oh, no, that is not part of the problem at all....not at all." turned out to be VERY important and very related to all my symtoms.

No body could convince me of course, but over time I watched myself in the therapy room in that relationship with that doctor, and I kept playing out so many of the same old games and repeated cycles...and it was eventually impossible NOT to see it.

Insights led to changes which led to my sort of "jumpstarting" myself. I had been frozen for a long time, more than from dp....frozen because I was so overly controlled and so damn SURE I knew myself inside and out....when I realized that there was much more going on in my mind that the stuff I was aware of, I could see that it was actually possible that my symptoms were being created within my own mind.

All that knowledge, understanding, etc...was enough to make the symptoms start dropping away. When I then started to RECREATE them again and again, I did the stuff listed above...I knew it was me doing it, and I knew what it took to stop it - to not buy into my own sense of being swept along. But I couldn't have ever done that without the other changes and insights, and again...the long term process of self-discovery.

No easy answer.

Short answer: long term therapy that really examined every aspect of how my mind worked.

Peace,
J


----------



## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

^ you know that made alot of sense

the thing is, if part of my problem is my past drug use, than even if i do that, do what you did or something similar, i still migt not recover, because if i did something to fuck up my brain chemistry than ive dug myself into a very deep hole.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

^ you know that made alot of sense

the thing is, if part of my problem is my past drug use, than even if i do that, do what you did or something similar, i still migt not recover, because if i did something to fuck up my brain chemistry than ive dug myself into a very deep hole.


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks for the replies guys. Sometimes I just need to hear what im feeling is normal.. im still suffereing big time right now.. trying to retrace every step of the day.. so that i get in a panic and cant remember a SINGLE thing.. its horrifying when my whole day and life becomes a blur, and i feel like i cant remember anything.. and im desperately trying to piece it together.. to remember.. ANYTHING.

I still cant remember what i did today  ..


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Thanks for the replies guys. Sometimes I just need to hear what im feeling is normal.. im still suffereing big time right now.. trying to retrace every step of the day.. so that i get in a panic and cant remember a SINGLE thing.. its horrifying when my whole day and life becomes a blur, and i feel like i cant remember anything.. and im desperately trying to piece it together.. to remember.. ANYTHING.

I still cant remember what i did today  ..


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

SoulBrotha said:


> ^ you know that made alot of sense
> 
> the thing is, if part of my problem is my past drug use, than even if i do that, do what you did or something similar, i still migt not recover, because if i did something to f--- up my brain chemistry than ive dug myself into a very deep hole.


you will get there one day,the brain sorts itself out in the end,but you have to make changes to your life,also there may be some different little quirkiness left in your personality,im not talking a mad psychotic quirkiness but you might seem standoffish to other people,some people might call you a bit strange at times,they wont meeen it in a nasty way but this illness tends to make us very nervous,and if youve ever seen a nervous cat they are often reffered to as 'a little scatty' well thats what kind of happens,weve become so immersed in ourselves that we maybe become a little scatty,but that adds to character in my oppinion


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## jc (Aug 10, 2004)

SoulBrotha said:


> ^ you know that made alot of sense
> 
> the thing is, if part of my problem is my past drug use, than even if i do that, do what you did or something similar, i still migt not recover, because if i did something to f--- up my brain chemistry than ive dug myself into a very deep hole.


you will get there one day,the brain sorts itself out in the end,but you have to make changes to your life,also there may be some different little quirkiness left in your personality,im not talking a mad psychotic quirkiness but you might seem standoffish to other people,some people might call you a bit strange at times,they wont meeen it in a nasty way but this illness tends to make us very nervous,and if youve ever seen a nervous cat they are often reffered to as 'a little scatty' well thats what kind of happens,weve become so immersed in ourselves that we maybe become a little scatty,but that adds to character in my oppinion


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## nemesis (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi Matt,
This story has stretched out a little longer than I?d probably intended, and longer than most will want to read, but it?s a great example of how alike our problems with memory are and the lengths that a person will go to in order to try and rationalise the problem. I've also included some interesting text bytes from others suffering from the same problem.

Poor memory and cognition have both been well documented complaints of mine over the course of my battles with DP. Both the symptoms and the affects it has had on every aspect of my life were very real and had a very large impact on my level of functioning. In fact I've been so tormented by the memory problems and 'brain fog' that I've recently undergone a vast and very expensive array of medical testing in an effort to put a name on what?s been giving me the grief.

The tests ranged from full blood scans, to an EEG through to functional MRIs. They all came back negative and in one case I'd even had the organic structure of my brain quoted as being a benchmark case study - I?m guessing that?s a good thing. The clear tests brought me a brief sense of relief, but the DP, anxiety and ruminations were soon back in full force driving me to dig deeper to try and find an explanation that would make this all go away.

In what I thought would be the ultimate test of how much the disorder has affected me, I saw my Uni psychologist last week and decided to take an IQ test to compare my functioning against scores obtained during the period before the onset of DP.

The score, which I will not mention here, was certainly surprising for a guy who could barely concentrate for long enough to read through an entire question in one attempt without breaking away and looking up. The result actually came out to be higher than what I'd achieved during the time when I thought I had a clear and perfectly functional mind. After a bit of head scratching I'd decided that it was most likely more of an exercise in morale building than a real test of conative capability. So earlier this week in a moment of madness and deception, I managed to convince one of the most intelligent, grounded people I knew in the form of a senior engineer from work to tell me his scores from interestingly, the same test he?d sat earlier on in the year. He agreed and our scores were all of 3 points apart.

I was dumbfounded. Why have I been having so many problems with memory, concentration and cognition our apparently cognitive abilities were so closely matched? He naturally asked me why I'd make such an unusual request, and knowing that he knew something was up, I fessed up and told him about the problems I was having with DP.

As with most observations of a person with DP, he told me that he?d never seen me struggle and then went onto suggest that the problems I was having may be attributed to extreme anxiety. The man?s also an avid cyclist and happened to have his heart rate monitor at work on the day. He promptly handed it over to me and after strapping it on, we were both shocked to see that I had a resting heart rate of 120bpm. That massive, comparable to what you?d expect to see from a moderate jog and extremely high for a person who?s as fit as I am.

After reading through countless medical journals and personal posts on the topic, it seems that extreme anxiety alone in the form of GAD can apparently cause the memory and thought problems that we?ve been experiencing.

An example in case. This question and the replies were taken from an Anxiety group on Usenet:

<CUT>
_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Besideds the *normal* symtoms of anxiety/agoraphobia/panic (agp) like
avoidance, sweaty palms, shortness of breath, dizziness, figity,
nervous (etc) sometimes I get this really weird feeling. Its like I'm
living in a dream. I feel like "I'm here, but I'm not really-here-"
My body does what it knows it should but my mind is short circuted.
Does anyone have this feeling? Is it a normal symtom of agp? Thanks
in advance.

Dallas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree the detached feeling you have is normal for PD sufferers.

Thomas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod Sterling speaking...

"Yes. That so-called dream-like feeling Dallas is experiencing is yet 
another mile-marker on the road of the unknown. A sureal path of anxiety 
and panic that marks that boundry between the real and the unreal. A 
feeling that will lead him to terra incognito. For he has just 
entered... the twilight zone."

<spooky theremin music begins>

Sorry Dallas. After Cyndie mentioned twilight zone, I couldn't resist a 
little fun. 
Best Wishes,
Arthur

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dallas, this has to be one of *the* most common symptoms of
PD - often called derealisation (with an optional z for you
people on the wrong side of the pond!). It's in the "harmless
but hateful" category and has been discussed here a great deal.
I'd like to be able to say "don't worry about it" but I know it's
hard not to. I *can* assure you that it is *not* a sign of 
"real" mental illness, however.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I sure have had that "living in a dream (nightmare)" feeling. I feel 
like I've been dropped into someone else's movie.

I believe the new "Eudora Mail" comes with a spell checker. You can also 
write your mail in a word processor and "attach" it as text in mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have those feelings, I thought I was the only one. I dont think 
mine are neccesarily do to panic though. I am often in a struggle to stay 
in the here and now. I constantly fighting to get out of this drifting 
off daydreaming state. If I have these symptoms even when alone I dont 
think it is do to panic, depression maybe. Just the other day at work I 
found myself in an uncontrollable situation during a training class which 
involved myself and about ten others, I had to get up and explain breifly 
about a simple topic, but my mind suddenly became a cloud, there were no 
words flowing, so I had to struggle on my feet to find words, words came 
out but they didnt flow, to me they practically made no sense, but the 
ironic thing about it is I was able to get out of the situation without 
anyone knowing I almost lost my mind, the little words that did come out 
were just enough to save me. The bad thing about my condition is that I 
can not put a label on it. I have no excuses for my feelings or behavior 
because I dont know the cause or what to call it, so I cant tell someone 
what is going on with me except to say that I am screwed up inside, to 
many that means I am just another loser. Although I have a slightly above 
average IQ I cant express myself much verbally because I cannot focus. I 
lose train of thought before I can complete a sentence. I am now 39, and 
have struggle since kindergarten with this, this is my dirty little 
secret. To others I am simply aloof, but they dont know the reason why 
not even my family. I cant explain to someone what the problem is since 
there are numerouse ones all with the same results. Depression, cant 
focus, cant cencentrate, daydream, drift off, difficulty learning, 
difficulty communicating. Add these all up and you get screwed up bad.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea yea, average ordinary non-harmful symptom. IMHO: The cause is
a "damper circuit" in your brain ment to protect against shock or
extreme stimulation. Sometimes kicks on when you have a near miss
say in an auto accident or some exhilarating moment in sports where
for an instant time can seem to stand still etc. The problem is
all the adrenaline and cortisols and god knows what else that you
produce when anxious "trick" this circuit into turning on. Sensation
is damped, you feel weird, not really there, inside a fish bowl. Might
also be exaserbated by somewhat reduced blood flow.

This goes away when you learn to reduce your anxiety and fear levels.

List of resources:
http://cns-web.bu.edu/pub/bradski/calm.html

Gary
_
</CUT>

One point, and perhaps the most important and best ignored was that the symptoms did not effect me a contant level all of the time. The were horrific for the majority of the time, but were on the odd occasion broken up both small patches of clear thought and sometimes brief moments of genius. Looking back, these often occured during times where I was 'getting lost in the moment', the times when I'd amusingly forget to ruminate . A classic symptom of anxiety, not brain damage 

So there you are, like Janine said _'The obsessions will destroy you. Your life will become nothing except "checking" yourself to verify if you are sane._'. Its both highly likely that you?re suffering from an intense fixed level of anxiety, and you?re smarter and more observant than you give yourself credit for. I'd managed to convince myself that I was a complete moron after 8 years of rumination.


----------



## nemesis (Aug 10, 2004)

Hi Matt,
This story has stretched out a little longer than I?d probably intended, and longer than most will want to read, but it?s a great example of how alike our problems with memory are and the lengths that a person will go to in order to try and rationalise the problem. I've also included some interesting text bytes from others suffering from the same problem.

Poor memory and cognition have both been well documented complaints of mine over the course of my battles with DP. Both the symptoms and the affects it has had on every aspect of my life were very real and had a very large impact on my level of functioning. In fact I've been so tormented by the memory problems and 'brain fog' that I've recently undergone a vast and very expensive array of medical testing in an effort to put a name on what?s been giving me the grief.

The tests ranged from full blood scans, to an EEG through to functional MRIs. They all came back negative and in one case I'd even had the organic structure of my brain quoted as being a benchmark case study - I?m guessing that?s a good thing. The clear tests brought me a brief sense of relief, but the DP, anxiety and ruminations were soon back in full force driving me to dig deeper to try and find an explanation that would make this all go away.

In what I thought would be the ultimate test of how much the disorder has affected me, I saw my Uni psychologist last week and decided to take an IQ test to compare my functioning against scores obtained during the period before the onset of DP.

The score, which I will not mention here, was certainly surprising for a guy who could barely concentrate for long enough to read through an entire question in one attempt without breaking away and looking up. The result actually came out to be higher than what I'd achieved during the time when I thought I had a clear and perfectly functional mind. After a bit of head scratching I'd decided that it was most likely more of an exercise in morale building than a real test of conative capability. So earlier this week in a moment of madness and deception, I managed to convince one of the most intelligent, grounded people I knew in the form of a senior engineer from work to tell me his scores from interestingly, the same test he?d sat earlier on in the year. He agreed and our scores were all of 3 points apart.

I was dumbfounded. Why have I been having so many problems with memory, concentration and cognition our apparently cognitive abilities were so closely matched? He naturally asked me why I'd make such an unusual request, and knowing that he knew something was up, I fessed up and told him about the problems I was having with DP.

As with most observations of a person with DP, he told me that he?d never seen me struggle and then went onto suggest that the problems I was having may be attributed to extreme anxiety. The man?s also an avid cyclist and happened to have his heart rate monitor at work on the day. He promptly handed it over to me and after strapping it on, we were both shocked to see that I had a resting heart rate of 120bpm. That massive, comparable to what you?d expect to see from a moderate jog and extremely high for a person who?s as fit as I am.

After reading through countless medical journals and personal posts on the topic, it seems that extreme anxiety alone in the form of GAD can apparently cause the memory and thought problems that we?ve been experiencing.

An example in case. This question and the replies were taken from an Anxiety group on Usenet:

<CUT>
_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Besideds the *normal* symtoms of anxiety/agoraphobia/panic (agp) like
avoidance, sweaty palms, shortness of breath, dizziness, figity,
nervous (etc) sometimes I get this really weird feeling. Its like I'm
living in a dream. I feel like "I'm here, but I'm not really-here-"
My body does what it knows it should but my mind is short circuted.
Does anyone have this feeling? Is it a normal symtom of agp? Thanks
in advance.

Dallas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Totally agree the detached feeling you have is normal for PD sufferers.

Thomas

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rod Sterling speaking...

"Yes. That so-called dream-like feeling Dallas is experiencing is yet 
another mile-marker on the road of the unknown. A sureal path of anxiety 
and panic that marks that boundry between the real and the unreal. A 
feeling that will lead him to terra incognito. For he has just 
entered... the twilight zone."

<spooky theremin music begins>

Sorry Dallas. After Cyndie mentioned twilight zone, I couldn't resist a 
little fun. 
Best Wishes,
Arthur

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dallas, this has to be one of *the* most common symptoms of
PD - often called derealisation (with an optional z for you
people on the wrong side of the pond!). It's in the "harmless
but hateful" category and has been discussed here a great deal.
I'd like to be able to say "don't worry about it" but I know it's
hard not to. I *can* assure you that it is *not* a sign of 
"real" mental illness, however.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I sure have had that "living in a dream (nightmare)" feeling. I feel 
like I've been dropped into someone else's movie.

I believe the new "Eudora Mail" comes with a spell checker. You can also 
write your mail in a word processor and "attach" it as text in mail.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have those feelings, I thought I was the only one. I dont think 
mine are neccesarily do to panic though. I am often in a struggle to stay 
in the here and now. I constantly fighting to get out of this drifting 
off daydreaming state. If I have these symptoms even when alone I dont 
think it is do to panic, depression maybe. Just the other day at work I 
found myself in an uncontrollable situation during a training class which 
involved myself and about ten others, I had to get up and explain breifly 
about a simple topic, but my mind suddenly became a cloud, there were no 
words flowing, so I had to struggle on my feet to find words, words came 
out but they didnt flow, to me they practically made no sense, but the 
ironic thing about it is I was able to get out of the situation without 
anyone knowing I almost lost my mind, the little words that did come out 
were just enough to save me. The bad thing about my condition is that I 
can not put a label on it. I have no excuses for my feelings or behavior 
because I dont know the cause or what to call it, so I cant tell someone 
what is going on with me except to say that I am screwed up inside, to 
many that means I am just another loser. Although I have a slightly above 
average IQ I cant express myself much verbally because I cannot focus. I 
lose train of thought before I can complete a sentence. I am now 39, and 
have struggle since kindergarten with this, this is my dirty little 
secret. To others I am simply aloof, but they dont know the reason why 
not even my family. I cant explain to someone what the problem is since 
there are numerouse ones all with the same results. Depression, cant 
focus, cant cencentrate, daydream, drift off, difficulty learning, 
difficulty communicating. Add these all up and you get screwed up bad.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea yea, average ordinary non-harmful symptom. IMHO: The cause is
a "damper circuit" in your brain ment to protect against shock or
extreme stimulation. Sometimes kicks on when you have a near miss
say in an auto accident or some exhilarating moment in sports where
for an instant time can seem to stand still etc. The problem is
all the adrenaline and cortisols and god knows what else that you
produce when anxious "trick" this circuit into turning on. Sensation
is damped, you feel weird, not really there, inside a fish bowl. Might
also be exaserbated by somewhat reduced blood flow.

This goes away when you learn to reduce your anxiety and fear levels.

List of resources:
http://cns-web.bu.edu/pub/bradski/calm.html

Gary
_
</CUT>

One point, and perhaps the most important and best ignored was that the symptoms did not effect me a contant level all of the time. The were horrific for the majority of the time, but were on the odd occasion broken up both small patches of clear thought and sometimes brief moments of genius. Looking back, these often occured during times where I was 'getting lost in the moment', the times when I'd amusingly forget to ruminate . A classic symptom of anxiety, not brain damage 

So there you are, like Janine said _'The obsessions will destroy you. Your life will become nothing except "checking" yourself to verify if you are sane._'. Its both highly likely that you?re suffering from an intense fixed level of anxiety, and you?re smarter and more observant than you give yourself credit for. I'd managed to convince myself that I was a complete moron after 8 years of rumination.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

wow, well, I read it all, Nemesis and it was fascinating. Yep, you said it all there. Excellent "confessions"

Also, guys, remember: the majority of your brain's activities/thoughts are NOT conscious. It's hard to comprehend that - but it's crucial for us obsessives to get it.

Repeat: the majority of your thinking/processing is NOT conscious. When we develop obsessions, we are trying to make ALL our thoughts conscious - we are working directly against the very fabric of human thinking.

We are trying to KNOW/FEEL/ACKNOWLEDGE/VERIFY in a fully conscious and Controlled way thoughts and mental processes that go on just fine OUTSIDE consciousness. The "horror" of it all comes in when we "fail" to master those processes in full awareness. NOBODY can. We are not built that way.

But the trauma/terror of no longer trusting our own minds to just DO their things encourages us to try to yank the reins away from our unconscious (which was doing fine before we got grabby) and to do all our mental processes with FULL AWARENESS.

Ex: I need to PROVE to myself that my brain is working right and that I'm not insane...so I will examine the last thought I had. I replay/recall it and then I try to analyze whether the sentence structure was right/logical. Was I thinking only in phrases? Was my word choice good/logical? Why did I choose that word? Did I use that word earlier today? Why am I stuck on that word? Don't crazy people do that, keep repeating words..did I even MISuse the word? Am I using words wrong now?! Am I losing my ability to appreciate the real meaning of words? (and suddenly the very CONCEPT of thinking itself feels alien...so I try to remember the last ten things I said to somebody to make sure my brain is still okay..then I can't remember! Then I can't even remember the last TWO things I said! I'm losing, not only my cognitive ability to use words, but my ability to recall what I've just [email protected]!) I've been there, guys...and I was very good at it.

There is no way out.

except to force yourself to stop.

Hell awaits. All who ignore me.

grin,
J


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

wow, well, I read it all, Nemesis and it was fascinating. Yep, you said it all there. Excellent "confessions"

Also, guys, remember: the majority of your brain's activities/thoughts are NOT conscious. It's hard to comprehend that - but it's crucial for us obsessives to get it.

Repeat: the majority of your thinking/processing is NOT conscious. When we develop obsessions, we are trying to make ALL our thoughts conscious - we are working directly against the very fabric of human thinking.

We are trying to KNOW/FEEL/ACKNOWLEDGE/VERIFY in a fully conscious and Controlled way thoughts and mental processes that go on just fine OUTSIDE consciousness. The "horror" of it all comes in when we "fail" to master those processes in full awareness. NOBODY can. We are not built that way.

But the trauma/terror of no longer trusting our own minds to just DO their things encourages us to try to yank the reins away from our unconscious (which was doing fine before we got grabby) and to do all our mental processes with FULL AWARENESS.

Ex: I need to PROVE to myself that my brain is working right and that I'm not insane...so I will examine the last thought I had. I replay/recall it and then I try to analyze whether the sentence structure was right/logical. Was I thinking only in phrases? Was my word choice good/logical? Why did I choose that word? Did I use that word earlier today? Why am I stuck on that word? Don't crazy people do that, keep repeating words..did I even MISuse the word? Am I using words wrong now?! Am I losing my ability to appreciate the real meaning of words? (and suddenly the very CONCEPT of thinking itself feels alien...so I try to remember the last ten things I said to somebody to make sure my brain is still okay..then I can't remember! Then I can't even remember the last TWO things I said! I'm losing, not only my cognitive ability to use words, but my ability to recall what I've just [email protected]!) I've been there, guys...and I was very good at it.

There is no way out.

except to force yourself to stop.

Hell awaits. All who ignore me.

grin,
J


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Janine, although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better. I was reading through your Dp story .. and its identical to mine.

No major issues throughout life.. small little irrational anxieties.. never quite fitting in.. then 2nd year high school.. BOOM.. anxiety attack happens.. and i never go back.. severe hypochondria and panick attacks develop.. I think im dying. I have every health fear in the book.. CONVINCING myself that my heart is about to stop.. I also spent a lot of time checking my pulse and other obsessive things like this.

Then one day.. i fell asleep.. and woke back up.. and there was DP.. at first it sort of came and went.. never completely back to normal.. but it was mostly just anxiety.. I felt kinda dreamy.. but it just kept getting worse and worse...

To the point where I no longer believed anything existed anymore.. Ive gone up and down since then.. weird fears of everything just dissapearing.. that nothing is real... that ive gone insane.. that im going to hurt myself or others... that ive been misdiagnosed and i have some awful brain disease... that im in a coma somewhere else and this is just a dream....

Now memory problems plague me.. and like everything else before them.. it has to be "THE WORST THING YET" .. it always seems the worst when its the one happening...

im petrified.. I struggle so hard just to remember what happened this morning.. I have no idea what happened when.. putting things in chronological order is impossible. If someone asked me if I remembered a specific event, i would.. but if someone asked me "what did you do today" .. i COMPLETELY freeze.. and i have NO idea.. i have such jumbled thoughts.. things just fly at me from the past few days and i have no idea if they happened today or years ago.. Then i frantically try and remember anything from anywhere.. and nothing comes at me.. Nothing...

I start to feel like my memory is completely gone.. and that my whole 18 years of life is just.. ruined.. pointless.. ive forgotten it all.

I know i have to stop myself.. but you know what its like.. its so HARD just to let go.. when all i want to do is prove to myself that i wont lose everything.. i feel like im grasping on to the few memories i have left.. and if i let go of the worry.. i let go of those last memories...

its crazy i know... thanks for the replies


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## Matt210 (Aug 15, 2004)

Janine, although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better. I was reading through your Dp story .. and its identical to mine.

No major issues throughout life.. small little irrational anxieties.. never quite fitting in.. then 2nd year high school.. BOOM.. anxiety attack happens.. and i never go back.. severe hypochondria and panick attacks develop.. I think im dying. I have every health fear in the book.. CONVINCING myself that my heart is about to stop.. I also spent a lot of time checking my pulse and other obsessive things like this.

Then one day.. i fell asleep.. and woke back up.. and there was DP.. at first it sort of came and went.. never completely back to normal.. but it was mostly just anxiety.. I felt kinda dreamy.. but it just kept getting worse and worse...

To the point where I no longer believed anything existed anymore.. Ive gone up and down since then.. weird fears of everything just dissapearing.. that nothing is real... that ive gone insane.. that im going to hurt myself or others... that ive been misdiagnosed and i have some awful brain disease... that im in a coma somewhere else and this is just a dream....

Now memory problems plague me.. and like everything else before them.. it has to be "THE WORST THING YET" .. it always seems the worst when its the one happening...

im petrified.. I struggle so hard just to remember what happened this morning.. I have no idea what happened when.. putting things in chronological order is impossible. If someone asked me if I remembered a specific event, i would.. but if someone asked me "what did you do today" .. i COMPLETELY freeze.. and i have NO idea.. i have such jumbled thoughts.. things just fly at me from the past few days and i have no idea if they happened today or years ago.. Then i frantically try and remember anything from anywhere.. and nothing comes at me.. Nothing...

I start to feel like my memory is completely gone.. and that my whole 18 years of life is just.. ruined.. pointless.. ive forgotten it all.

I know i have to stop myself.. but you know what its like.. its so HARD just to let go.. when all i want to do is prove to myself that i wont lose everything.. i feel like im grasping on to the few memories i have left.. and if i let go of the worry.. i let go of those last memories...

its crazy i know... thanks for the replies


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

My dearest Matt: 
Yes, your story and mine are SO similar.

May I also draw your attention to the following quote of yours:



> although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better


You believe you have forgotten all of 18 years of your life, but somehow not only do you manage to recall nearly everything I've ever said to you, but you have managed to remember it with such clarity that you can discern that the NUANCE of most of my other comments seemed more soothing and in this thread I was being a bit more ominous (which is entirely accurate).

there is NOTHING wrong with your brain.
There is, however, plenty wrong with how you've gotten used to thinking about your own mind.

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2004)

My dearest Matt: 
Yes, your story and mine are SO similar.

May I also draw your attention to the following quote of yours:



> although i admit in the past you have been much more comforting (the whole "there is no way to stop it" thing is scary).. somehow u alyaws make me feel a little better


You believe you have forgotten all of 18 years of your life, but somehow not only do you manage to recall nearly everything I've ever said to you, but you have managed to remember it with such clarity that you can discern that the NUANCE of most of my other comments seemed more soothing and in this thread I was being a bit more ominous (which is entirely accurate).

there is NOTHING wrong with your brain.
There is, however, plenty wrong with how you've gotten used to thinking about your own mind.

Peace,
J


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi Guys
There is hope if you want to help yourself. I started into this game of the memory thing. Basically when I just told myself that every other day of my life I never remembered what I did in the morning etc so why should I bother now?

Try just not worrying about it. You will still have the sensations & the thought to check but you have to tell yourself I am here, it is just anxiety & I don't need to check cause it won't make a difference.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2004)

Hi Guys
There is hope if you want to help yourself. I started into this game of the memory thing. Basically when I just told myself that every other day of my life I never remembered what I did in the morning etc so why should I bother now?

Try just not worrying about it. You will still have the sensations & the thought to check but you have to tell yourself I am here, it is just anxiety & I don't need to check cause it won't make a difference.


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## orangeaid (Jun 24, 2005)

So GAD can have symptoms like DP/DR but at the same time you might not have DP/DR. I find myself very worn down, tired, scared, spacey, just out of it. I dont really feel however that my world has changed, I am nervous all the time though about everything, I am just in a scared mood all the time. Could my spaced out feelings and memory problems could be just tied to extreme anxiety? I just figured I have dp/dr because I always feel like this for a while now, but I also have not been able to control my anxiety levels.


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## Milan (May 29, 2005)

I agree Janine, we are always testing and checking ourselves until the concepts start feeling alien. And I didn't like your last sentence, scared me a bit because the truth hurts (hell still scares us ex Catholics :wink.

A question about therapy and it's cost. From your posts I'm thinking that I'll need to do what you did to get over this illness but the cost of seeing a psychoanalyst prohibits me. Are there any other depth therapies one can do that will have the same affect as psychoanalysis that are not as expensive? I mentioned in another post that for a two year period it will cost me over $26K to see a psychoanalyst once a week. How are people in on this board able to see an analyst especially if they're not working? Is this therapy only for the rich?


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## Imagine (Oct 24, 2004)

YES - I'am going through this right now.

I struggle to remember what I did in the morning and what my thoughts were at that time.

Just feels as though my brain is deteriorating.


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## Sojourner (May 21, 2005)

Milan said:


> How are people in on this board able to see an analyst especially if they're not working? Is this therapy only for the rich?


Here in the U.S., some psychotherapists are willing to offer what's called a "sliding scale" cost; that is, you pay less than other people, usually what you can afford.


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## peaceboy23 (May 25, 2005)

I would agree that Janine's post seems a bit more "ominous" but I think there is an important point (as always ;-)). To me (i could be completely off here, so i apologize if I am) it seems like Janine is letting us know that this stuff isn't easy. All so often, we want to find the easiest solution, and it's usually NOT the best solution. I am surely guilty of this. I have long wanted to hear some reassuring words from my thearpist and go along my merry way, finally cured. However, this is not going to happen. I just go right back to my self monitoring and obsessive thoughts. This stuff is hard work, and we tend to resist hard work and the best solution in favor of what we think is the best way, which is usually the way that has failed us the most in the past. (By the way, I am NOT insinuating that we are lazy or anything else like that, just that we usually prefer comfort all the time--which ironically isn't bringing us lasting comfort). I have been in therapy for six years, and i'm just now starting to realize that my current methods of coping with things are failing dismally. I have long resisted looking into my deeper emtoins and feelings, which I am starting to realize are what I really need to do. I have a lot of buried pain and shame and guilt and hurt that I have never faced, and I'm starting to think that this is what is causing a lot of my dp/dr and anxiety and depression. I've long treated the symptoms while ignoring the disease, so to speak. At least all of this is what I'm hoping...that good old obsessive part thinks I'm just finding reasons for this and I will never get well...sigh  Did I get any of this right lol


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