# I have DP but DP does not have me.



## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

I haven't been on here in a really long time. I used to come on here every day. Feels good to be back  :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I had the worst episode of DP today. for a minute I thought I should commit myself. I was looking in the mirror and felt myself slipping away very quickly. Perception of myself just accounting to zero. Like I could recognize everything around me, but it felt SO alien. Everything seemed alien to me. I couldn't relax or concentrate on ANYTHING. I fell into a state of complete hell. I felt like I might just end up dying from freaking out so bad, reality made no sense to me, and like my body just might disappear, and I would be a ghost, or a spirit. Why am I here? why am I in this body and not another one? why are my parents these people and not someone else? It all seemed too coincidential. What if I don't even really exist. What does it all mean, etc. I was extremely dizzy and light headed and could barely walk round the house. Getting from one room to the next was like a fu*cking cartoon. Things just felt so weird and I felt like I was floating around. Very physically uncomfortable. I made it into my room and puked my guts out in the trash can, because I was just _so_ disturbed by all of it. My boyfriend watched and came over to me, started rubbing my back, saying are you ok? I felt like if I said yes I would be lying. After puking i did feel better and I said I was gonna be ok. Eventually my cognitions changed and I felt alright again.

Well thats my personal experience. I'm sure we all have ours. Anyone feel free to talk to me. I have AIM, my screen name is Jesser741. I have been dealing with this for a little over a year, (since last august), and when it first started I couldn't do anything and was pretty much disabled. Crying spells throughout the day, lost weight from not eating, sleeping was a joke, etc. It pushed my boyfriend away from me so not only was I heavily suffering from the DP, but I felt so guilty that I even had it. Recipe for depression. Same with the panic attacks.

It has pretty much faded completely since it started, I get it a little bit here and there, but it doesn't control me anymore like it used to. I do stuff now. well, I did before, but that was painfully decreased to a minimum and the ability for me to enjoy anything I did was never there. Now that's not the case. Hasn't been for a long time. Months. I've gotten pretty much 100% better, except for the little reoccurences. I play music, work out, whatever I wanna do. Instead of staying home in a fog where you can't enjoy human life.

I'd go as far as to say I've recovered completely. Sure I have reoccurences, but I realized that the only thing that gave this thing in the beginning the power to control me was _me_. Me being afraid of it. I'm totally not afraid of it anymore. I laugh about it. It was horrifying at the time it happened today but I reminded myself it's happened before, it'll pass, and my thinking will change. The whole wondering if your real or not, or crazy or not, they're just thoughts. You give them the power to become reality, to control you. Reality is perception. What really made me better in the long run is exposure. Exposure to every horrible symptom and coming through okay showed me there's nothing to be afraid of. That's where fear comes in again. Your fear is fueling the DP. You fear what you create, and the more scared of it you are, the more you're gonna tell yourself that it's never gonna go away, and the more you're gonna think you're feeling the DP, that your whole life is meaningless, and that you'll never be the same person that you were before all of this happened to you, and so on and so forth. The more I let my mind go there, (the thoughts of me not being real and every other horrible thought I had that scared me shitless), the stronger that thought becomes. It's a proven fact. The more you think a certain thought, then your brain will automatically go there. You teach your mind where to go. There's lots others you can do, like eating healthy, talking to someone about it, not researching it constantly which will only give it more power, and just whatever personally helps you. I let it run it course and it all faded away. I appreciated life een more coming out of it, so there you go, one good thing about DP.

I loved hearing from you guys in the past and still would like to. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 
Best, Jesser.


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

JessMess said:


> The whole wondering if your real or not, or crazy or not, they're just thoughts.


Everything you perceive is a thought. "You" "I" "chair" "anxiety" "happiness" "good" and "bad"... everything is a thought. Just being is reality.



JessMess said:


> You give them the power to become reality, to control you.


"You" give the thoughts the power to become reality although "You" is a thought? For me that makes absolutely no sense.



JessMess said:


> Reality is perception.


I dont think so. I rather think reality is being and perception is a thought.

But how can you disconnect reality from thought? Isnt everything reality and everything the same cause everthing is reality?

:|


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

Reality is something you can't change, but what makes reality perception is the way we perceive the world around us is the reality we are living in. 
Your thoughts can't actually harm you, but by giving them a lot of credit, (or power), they stick round to scare you.
Best, Jesser


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

So "I" can give my thoughts power? Where does this power come from? Like power which is not connected to the rest of physical or whatever life?
Besides if they are my thoughts why do I even should be anxious about them or think they could harm me? Or are these thoughts not mine? Not controlled by me? Or do I have to want to control them that they are good thoughts and otherwise they are just thoughts but still my thoughts. Who does controll them if not me?



JessMess said:


> Reality is something you can't change, but what makes reality perception is the way we perceive the world around us is the reality we are living in.


Isnt perception then illusion if there are different ways to perceive the world? And how can "I" choose how to perceive the world? Or is there no way of me choosing the way I perceive the reality? How I create the illusion? Is there a way to not perceive "a way of perceiving the world" but perceiving the reality like it is?

What you are talking doesnt makes sense for me.

Please explain.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm sure there's tons, if not more, ways to perceive reality. What you are doing is simply playing semantics. I was using power as a metaphor for credit, and you went on some silly tangent about power not connected to physical being. Stop scaring yourself. I see you're exploring your mind, which is very good, but there's no possible way you can come up with all of these things and try and prove their fate or meaning. They are just questions, ones that there is no real answer to. I was just stating that you have the power to see the world however you like, (or your schema), and that will be the reality that you maintain.


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

But why choose a philosophy with many questions which cant be answered, if one with no possible questions and only answers is the more logical choice?
Where is the logic in a philosophy where many things are just "magical" and shouldnt be questioned (cause they cant be answered).



JessMess said:


> I was just stating that you have the power to see the world however you like, (or your schema), and that will be the reality that you maintain.


So what is this power. This credit. what is it? I still dont get it. I have something( what cant be answered) that somehow(cant be answered to) is able to show to an "individual" (what also cant be answered) a world.
This world tranforms in the reality "I" get... so the illusion "I" get. Thats what it sounds to me... doesnt make very much sense with all these open questions and words with no meaning.
Besides... where are the options on which "I" can apply my "power". If this power is connected to the physical being in which way is it different to the thoughts and how can it control and empower them?

I still dont get it and its like you using words where you cant explain any definitions cause it just is "scary" to search for them. Should I already know all of the definition and meanings of "individuality", "choice", "innerpower/credit".. etc... to understand them or is it not the purpose of your words to be understood?

Please explain. Thank you very much.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

I'll break it down even simpler for you. I argued with my therapist for awhile about the thought credit thing, until she got me to see that I'm going to continue to have a train of thoughts and that I can either get attached to them or not, and if I choose not to, then they don't cause me anxiety. That was my way of describing giving the thoughts more "credit" :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Also I am not sure on what you are trying to get me to answer, if you're asking if life is an illusion, where does power come from, Is someone controlling your own thoughts besides you, wow, I am a human being, how could I possibly answer something like that? You're just exploring your mind.
Best, Jess


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

Thank you very much. but.. I still dont get it. 
My question is... lets say you have man many thoughts. YOUR thoughts. Thoughts you "choose" to have. How can these chosen thoughts cause anxiety, although you chose them and you own them. Besides why should you choose thoughts and then dont give them "credit". That makes no sense. I mean why do you choose to have your thoughts if you then choose to ignore them and dont give them much credit. Isnt the highest credit you can give them if you say they are YOUR thoughts?

Please explain.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

Thoughts can be in your head. Even more than one. The mind is not one dimensional but just because they are there, doesn't mean you have to pay attention to them. Doesn't mean you have to get attached to them. Doesn't even mean you have to like it or hate it. I was using choose as a work for 'like'
Jess


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

I have a class to be to, so I gotta split right now. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

wait wait... so in my head there are MY thoughts or thoughts which dont belong to me? I mean.. are these thoughts there cause "I" created them or do they just arise cause I experienced certain things?
So is it like there are many thoughts in my brain.. and Im like a thing in my brain which can choose which thoughts I like, which make anxiety and which are I dont like or what?
Isnt it more like that the thought "I like certain thoughts or all my thoughts" is just another thought? Or are there like "super"thoughts which represent your real self and "minor"thoughts which can be judged about?
Besides.. how can your real self express without your thoughts? How can you communicate without thinking? So if your thoughts are not really you and just arise how can it be YOU that is communicating with me or anybody?

Im really sorry but I dont get it.

Please explain. Thank you.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

You're just over thinking things man. This is gonna get you nowhere really fast. You're not even really trying to figure anything out, you're just confusing yourself.


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

No I dont over think it. I just dont want to believe in something what isnt logical and is so a blind believe.

Besides why do you think I am not trying to figure anything out? Im trying really hard but you just dont give me anything to think about. I dont believe there is any sense in stop thinking and that there is no way to "decide" to stop it. So if you dont want to "discuss" your "theory" then its sad but I cant do anything against it. 
I thought you didnt get what Im asking but now I think that you just want to ignore my questions and dont wanna "scare" you with what really is. (or what has more logic or even to recognize the missing logic in your believe )
If you want to stay in your magical believe and are not open to discuss its logic then Im sorry and regret for asking you about it.

Thanks.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

Go wherever you want, I don't care. But don't expect anyone to answer rediculous questions like why we are here, etc.  It's fun to guess, but there's no way to really know for sure.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

And sure I'm not saying there's any limit. There may be a limit to how much we can prove as humans, but as far as where our mind goes? Into the rabbit hole.


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

JessMess said:


> Go wherever you want, I don't care. But don't expect anyone to answer rediculous questions like why we are here, etc.  It's fun to guess, but there's no way to really know for sure.


I never asked why we are here... dont claim that I said things I never talked of.

I just asked what you mean with "dont give credit to your thoughts... if you do that you dont get anxious"

Thats absolutly not logical and it doesnt suprise me that you cant answer it cause its just wrong (or I think its wrong)

If you dont give your thoughts credit its just a thought that says you didnt give your thoughts credit. Nothing more.

Besides Im sad that you dont care about where I go  You should care for everyone and everyone should care for you


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

It's all the same thing with the semantics, when I said I don't care where you go, I meant it as if it does not bother me. Then you tried to make it sound like I was insulting you. I suggest you find something to do? maybe a hobby?


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

what? When/where was I sayin you were insulting me? I just said I feel sad now. Sad cause you dont care about myself^^. I think its not nice if I know that people dont care about me. 
Sorry for that. Besides i have something to do but at the moment I cant sleep and so I just think and talk  (its 6.20am here )


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## Garjon (Apr 4, 2009)

gotta agree with jess on this one man sounds like you love semantics and are just thinking about things way to hard which is probably perpetuating your dp. It's a vicious cycle.

Michael.


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

I like logic and answers. I dont like magic and esoteric and just blind believing in stuff. Not to use semantics is without logic. I dont even know how you could think without logic. You can talk without logic if you dont tell your logic. So I want you to tell me your logic.


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## Garjon (Apr 4, 2009)

and what would you like to hear about "my logic" ? i'm very confused by the way you speak


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## edward_morden (Oct 12, 2009)

Im not a native speaker.... sorry.. I try to be coherent as possible... besides...

I FEEL SOOO AWESOME RIGHT NOW.. ^^ .. soo real  I feel the ground with my feet and like the pressure and everything.. the thickness^^

im serious... strange... maybe I almost found out what Im searching for^^


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## Garjon (Apr 4, 2009)

well that is good news, with dp good moments are fleeting though, i hope that you hold on to it.


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## JessMess (Jan 8, 2009)

I remember talking to my mom, telling her I felt 'normal' again, and she just put me down and said, "well enjoy it, cause it's not gonna last" and I got so hurt, why wouldn't she embrace that moment with me?? ENJOY IT!


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## Garjon (Apr 4, 2009)

this is true and i didn't mean to come across negative by what i said, i have just kind of gotten use to the ups and downs as well but like i said hold on to whatever good you may have. hopefully it does last!


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