# Dp is NOT a mental illness



## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

I am getting so sick and tired of everyone seeing dp as a mental illness and treating us like we are crazy. It is NOT a mental illness. We are NOT sick. We are NOT crazy. Something shifted in our brains and now our brains do not process signals correctly. That is all dp is. The signals from our nerves and eyes to our brains are not being translated correctly. It's a malfuntion, not an illness. It is like the wiring in a computer getting crossed. We just need the right technical support and we could be "fixed" and fully functional again. Instead we are lumped into a group that we do not fit in and not taken seriously. It needs to stop. /end rant


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## insaticiable (Feb 23, 2010)

You tell em Tinyfairypeople! No, but seriously this is great and so true.



tinyfairypeople said:


> It is like the wiring in a computer getting crossed. We just need the right technical support and we could be "fixed" and fully functional again.


Haha, what a great metaphor ^^


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## Teresa (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey Tiny...

Where did u read that? Can u give me a link?

I always felt like my left and right brainhalf would´nt coorperate... and thats why my body seems weird... like if u cross your fingers and thouch your nose.. it feels wierd and like u have 2 noses... That is how your body feels... all over... sometimes very strong...


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

I think whether you think of it as a physical or a mental disfunction is just a matter of personal preference. All the "mental" illnesses are imbalances of brain chemistry of one way or the other anyway. It is just semantics from where I am standing.

Your mood affects your brain chemistry and your brain chemistry prescribes your mood. Chicken and egg.


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## S O L A R I S (Dec 24, 2009)

Who cares how it is called! More importantly, why do we need other peoples validation on what is and what is not a mental illness?!

You cannot term things you want, and others cannot do it for you. It is what it is, and it is SERIOUS. Ive said it before, anxiety, depression, self hatred, zoning out, they can all mean the same thing for you. its a matter of semantics so dont label things. One thing for sure is that it is dissociation, and you cannot argue with that. whether it is an illness, disorder, dilemma, doesnt matter. its just labeling.

We are the master of our body and mind so fuck people who want to judge us, and to hell with the self destructive thoughts that all people have no matter how healthy they may be.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2010)

i agree with you 100% that it needs to be taken more seriously and treated better. i also agree with you that we shouldnt be treated like were crazy... but it might as well just be called a mental illness. lets face it, something is wrong with all of us mentally. why is that not an illness?


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

tinyfairypeople said:


> I am getting so sick and tired of everyone seeing dp as a mental illness and treating us like we are crazy. It is NOT a mental illness. We are NOT sick. We are NOT crazy. Something shifted in our brains and now our brains do not process signals correctly. That is all dp is. The signals from our nerves and eyes to our brains are not being translated correctly. It's a malfuntion, not an illness. It is like the wiring in a computer getting crossed. We just need the right technical support and we could be "fixed" and fully functional again. Instead we are lumped into a group that we do not fit in and not taken seriously. It needs to stop. /end rant


Isn't schizofrenia the same? Like, something that changed in the brain? :/


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## Rogue Bullies (Jun 1, 2010)

I believe DP isn't take seriously because its normally a symptom of something else ie anxiety, depression, trauma etc. and they treat that instead of actually looking into and treating the DP. Its funny because if you have bad anxiety then its feeds from DP and then the DP stays present because you are continuing to feed your anxiety.

I just wish this was taken more seriously. For as common as it seems it doesn't seem like anyone knows jack about it. I just can't believe this is a minor issue in psychiatry. For people who have it, it is a big issue.


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## septimus (Jun 1, 2010)

Agreed. However, I wouldn't even call it a malfunction. It's not serious. It's harmless and non-progressive, and it's there for a reason.


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

I dont see a difference. Any mental illness can be labeled as a brain "malfunction". I agree that we are not "crazy", although that depends on your definition of crazy also.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

AllmindnoBrain said:


> I dont see a difference. Any mental illness can be labeled as a brain "malfunction". I agree that we are not "crazy", although that depends on your definition of crazy also.


That's what I meant with my previous post









Crazy IMO, is doing something really stupid while you're aware that doing it actually is stupid lol


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2010)

DP is the protective fight-or-flight mechanism being stuck on as far as I am concerned. Not a mental illness, no. But definitely a mental aggravation, yes. Being aware of this brings acceptance of DP and a certain amount of forgiveness towards it. We simply must move past the trauma through talk therapy or whatever means gets you past your troubles. And then I believe we must learn to live life and allow this mechanism to reset itself in the off-mode. So we can say "WE DON'T FUCKING NEED YOU ANYMORE DP, GO AWAY!"


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2010)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> DP is the protective fight-or-flight mechanism being stuck on as far as I am concerned. Not a mental illness, no. But definitely a mental aggravation, yes. Being aware of this brings acceptance of DP and a certain amount of forgiveness towards it. We simply must move past the trauma through talk therapy or whatever means gets you past your troubles. And then I believe we must learn to live life and allow this mechanism to reset itself in the off-mode. So we can say "WE DON'T FUCKING NEED YOU ANYMORE DP, GO AWAY!"


Preach.


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## pancake (Nov 26, 2009)

PositiveThinking! said:


> Crazy IMO, is doing something really stupid while you're aware that doing it actually is stupid lol


Shit, I fit that definition far too often


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## S O L A R I S (Dec 24, 2009)

Food for thought, 
if this defense mechanism goes away prematurely without fully resolving the "triggering issues" what will happen?

Will we all break down or something? maybe im too sarcastic but honestly i and im sure yourselves as well can handle anything. we've learned to be fighters with this thing. whats so traumatic that our mind wants to switch off? I feel sometimes DP is like a little child, that is stubborn. i know my life was tough, but at the same time i dont feel like discussing it over and over and over in therapy. ugh,

A message to DP: GET OVER IT! Gosh, i know im not that powerful but damn it I can handle whatever, so give it to me.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

pancake said:


> Shit, I fit that definition far too often


Something really stupid though, like causing someone pain while you know that that person is going to suffer.. or something like that yeah


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## S O L A R I S (Dec 24, 2009)

I dont like to label things, but if I had to I would not call DP a defense mechanism. Defense mechanism refers to the healthy dissociation in daily life i.e. if you are in the middle of a car accident.
*
DP is a learned coping mechanism, because there is no attack currently threatening you.*


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## nix (Feb 27, 2010)




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## septimus (Jun 1, 2010)

S O L A R I S said:


> Food for thought,
> if this defense mechanism goes away prematurely without fully resolving the "triggering issues" what will happen?
> 
> Will we all break down or something? maybe im too sarcastic but honestly i and im sure yourselves as well can handle anything. we've learned to be fighters with this thing. whats so traumatic that our mind wants to switch off? I feel sometimes DP is like a little child, that is stubborn. i know my life was tough, but at the same time i dont feel like discussing it over and over and over in therapy. ugh,
> ...


I don't know about anyone else, but in my case, I _do_ feel a constant threat. I have social anxiety whether I am in a social situation or not. If I'm alone, I have anxiety about not being in a social situation. I feel like I need to be socializing at all times. I want to be. It's sort of traumatic for me. I can understand why I dissociate because this is not the life anyone should live. I love people, I love being around them more than anything, but I can't handle it.

Unfortunately social anxiety isn't very treatable...


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2010)

I always get carried away with this stuff as I am so into anti-stigma and needing to have mental illness, brain disorders, neurological disorders ACCEPTED as medical disorders and at some point this should help eliminate misconceptions by the general public.

Years ago it was believed that "schizphrenogenic mothers" caused schizophrenia. That is so far from the truth it is devastating.

I have lived with this long enough ... to long ... and it has been so severe and debilitating that I have no doubt in my mind that this is medical ... very common (though people don't speak up as they indeed they feel they will be included with "those people")

Having studied neurology and "altered states of perception" not everyone experiences this .. not everyone has clinical depression, schizophrenia, bipolar, OCD. We don't know enough about hos the brain works, but there is much greater understanding that these states are as much illnesses as diabetes (which can be controlled, not cured) ... best example.

The shame attached to these disorders distorts the way the public views brain disorders. Keeps people from communicating, reaching out for help, and many doctors are not taught about his properly in medical school, though the DSM-V with have changes that call this a Disorder unto itself, COMORBID, with other disorders.

I will say again, for the billionth time, the word "crazy" is absolutely meaningless and pejorative, cruel, whatever. I say I have a brain disorder. When I have been able to speak freely about this, I find many people I THOUGHT might be healthy, have it, have depression, or have a family member, or child who have this. The World Health Organization says 26% of the population has a diagnosable mental disorder at any given time.

So what? Heart disease, cancer, diabetes ... is anyone ashamed about saying they have that? Rheumatoid arthritis, yada, yada,yada.

I am not ashamed to say ... and I understand there is so much stigma that one can lose friends or hurt one's job status ... I have depression and DP.

If we don't talk about it and say "those people" who are "crazy" aren't us, well, shame on all of us. There are many individuals with schizophrenia, autism, etc. who function better than many of us. And they can't speak out, until recently. Professors, actors, businessmen, succdessful people, individuals in every profession.

I HATE those words in reference to anyone. Someone with schizoprhenia isn't "crazy" that is, in my book as bad as calling a black person the "N" word, seriously.

See how we have to have no shame, and will get equal medical treatment, better media coverage if we speak out.

http://www.bringchange2mind.org

One day, mental illness with be subsumed under neurology. Or endocrine disorders or whatever. These illness run in families, as do heart disease, some forms of cancer, other illnesses.

*The words crazy, whako, schizo, should be eliminated from our vocabulary. Are we "better" than someone with schizoprhenia. NO. They are not lesser human beings.*

*Some here do not have the same severity of illness. Some people here ARE SCHIZOPHRENIC. ON THIS BOARD. They happen to have COMORBOD DP/DR.*

I beg of people to educate themselves. It seems so awful to me, that even those of us with some of these problems would purposely distance themselves from very common illnesses and "those other crazy people." NONE OF US ARE "CRAZY."

Research into DP/DR is ONGOING. Some people have it without anxiety.

See my site: http://www.dreamchild.net I say these things over and over, and it seems it doesn't matter to so many people.
What we say about anyone with a mental illness, or brain disorder, or brain disease, or neurological disorder says something about US. It perpetuates the stigma, which perpetuates discrimination, poor treatment, lack of equal insurance coverage, forcing people to live on the street or live in jails instead of giving them help.

This really makes me angry.

I have three comorbid mental illnesses I have had since childhood and I am 51. I have no shame about it. I cope as best I can.

End of rant. This is an anti-stigma rant. And it's time for us to be stigma stompers.

_*Again, visit Glenn Close's site http://www.bringchange2mind ... watch her PSA, the personal stories. Take the time to educate yourselves.*_

Peace, and peace of mind to everyone.
Some of the most wonderful people I know have a mental illness, and they aren't "crazy" -- it is as if they have diabetes which can be deadly. So can mental illness.

*Per the World Health Organization by 2020 mental illness will BE THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH AND DISABILITY IN THE WORLD. It CAN be fatal. Many take their lives, many live on the street and aren't given help, many self medicate to death, many can't get regular health care for other illnesses, etc., etc., etc.*


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2010)

*Sorry http://www.bringchange2mind.org*


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## guest1234 (Mar 23, 2010)

S O L A R I S said:


> Food for thought,
> if this defense mechanism goes away prematurely without fully resolving the "triggering issues" what will happen?
> 
> Will we all break down or something? maybe im too sarcastic but honestly i and im sure yourselves as well can handle anything. we've learned to be fighters with this thing. whats so traumatic that our mind wants to switch off? I feel sometimes DP is like a little child, that is stubborn. i know my life was tough, but at the same time i dont feel like discussing it over and over and over in therapy. ugh,
> ...


My own theory is that there was some original threat but that the DP then becomes the threat - it is the fear of DP that keeps it alive and is the new threat once the old one has passed. It IS a defense mechanism but it has gone a bit haywire. It's an old fashioned one too, which our more developed consciousnesses pick up on and fear because we deem the feelings to be strange.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

DP is like a mosquito bite!


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Yes, I agree w/guest above. But also, if you look up the word "illness" in the dictionary, it gives the definition "sickness."

In our bodies, any time we are not functioning at our peak, we are "out of homeostasis" -- "out of balance" and being ill is a message that the body isn't working 100%. Having the flu ... you are sick. Having pneumonia you are sick/ill. These things can be treated, or not, and in theory run their course.

You could have something like Multiple Sclerosis or Rheumatoid arthritis, or Parkinsons which are disorders for which there are no cures (we have yet). There is diabetes. These are disorders which cannot be resolved/cured but can be treated with varying degrees of success and one can have a high quality of life, or a very poor quality of life and the illnesses are progressive. Each case unique.

So, with mental illnesses, or I'd like to say disorders, something in the brain is not functioning properly (and just because we don't understand why doesn't mean things are "malfunctioning"). We know FOR CERTAIN that schizophrenia is a disorder (probably a better word than illness or sickness) -- meaning one has it life-long. One can respond very well to treatment, but one much, like a diabetic, receive treatment life long.

W/DP/DR ... it can be a nuisance to some, or it can be completely debilitating LIKE ANY OTHER ILLNESS or Disorder. We're getting into semantics with these words. If something is interfering with normal daily functioning that is not HEALTH. In theory if you are perfectly healthy there is nothing that would impede your living a fully active SOCIAL/OCCUPATIONAL/ACTIVE life.

*With chronic DP/DR ... regardless of how we debate what is going on (and it is NOT well understood) ... we KNOW ... or people wouldn't be hear SEEKING HELP ... that something is "wrong." I know I have an anxiety disorder, I know I have clinical depression. I don't call these illnesses, but they happens to be listed under mental illnesses for diagnostic purposes. It interferes with my functioning, my life. If I had severe arthritis it would interfere with my life. No one is ashamed of having arthritis.
*

*Bottom line, forget the DSM ... why is DP listed in the ICD ... the International Classification of Disorders ... a worldwide benchmark of ALL ILLNESSES from cancer to psoriasis to bipolar?*

Granted we know that homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness and is no longer. There is enough evidence to indicate one is born with a specific sexual ORIENTATION. But DP/DR has been seen throughout history as something that LIMITS a person's functioning. If that is so, is that not illness? sickness? or I chose the word disorder.

I don't mean to be crabby, and on the internet I suppose I come off that way. But why seek help, if we have nothing wrong with us? We feel uncomfortable, we feel limited in certain areas of our lives. Some people here can't leave the house because of DP/DR.

OK, done.
I need a techno break
Seriously,
*Written all with the fervent desire that all people with all brain disorders be treated with consideration. The medical profession looks down on those with mental illnesses. Society does. That has to stop. That's all I'm carrying on about.
Peace,
Cheers
D*


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> DP is like a mosquito bite!


Say what, LOL?


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Dreamer* said:


> Say what, LOL?


If you scratch at it, it get's worse!


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

Dreamer, I don't agree with you. Dp is a natural defense mechanism, not an illness and by allowing yourself to believe that you are "sick" it gives you the right in your mind to allow dp to keep happening. I know that you have had dp for a very long time and I can't imagine how that must feel. I also know that I too decided at one point that I was very "sick" and it made my dp a billion times worse. It gave me license to think of myself as special and things snowballed from there. I think that Phasedout24 is right that dp is a like a sneeze. It's a basic natural defense mechanism of the body. Sneezes try to expel potentially harmful intruders, as does dp. They just do so on a different level. The issue comes when the "protective mode" of dp doesn't get the signal to turn off. That's where we need to sort out the wiring manfunction.


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## S O L A R I S (Dec 24, 2009)

EDIT.

My post was offensive and harsh. I apologize if I offended you Tinyfairypeople. I am just passionate about eradicating stigma. No point of view is the correct one, so we need to give everyone the chance to say what they want freely without judgement and backlash.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2010)

I think DP is closer to a Disorder than an Illness. But hey these are just labels, call it what you want. It still is what it is.


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## PositiveThinking! (Mar 5, 2010)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> I think DP is closer to a Disorder than an Illness. But hey these are just labels, call it what you want. It still is what it is.


And whatever it is, that's not what really matters, what matters is getting rid of it


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

PositiveThinking! said:


> And whatever it is, that's not what really matters, what matters is getting rid of it


*I'm certainly willing to agree to disagree with anyone. But I think PositiveThinking is back to the point others have made.* It's a matter of definition of these words, and many were chosen for a purpose, and many (when all mental illnesses were believed to be anything from demonic possession to all the fault of a family dynamic) are incorrectly defined.

That happens all the time in medicine.
*
I would call what I have a Disorder. DPD. I also have an anxiety disorder and a mood disorder. So I suppose I have three mental disorders or syndromes.

Meantime, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion.*

*It's just that somewhere along the line, I'm back to one basic beef I have. Stigma.* Whatever we have we are not believed, we are ridiculed, told we are lazy, told we are "crazy, whacko" etc, or anyone with any disorder MUSTN'T be included with "those people who have schizophrenia, bipolar, etc, even though these people can have DP/DR as part of their illness. No one seems to understand the "brain can get sick" or "the brain can malfunction", etc.

That may have been a rant I had earlier which ticks people off, and I understand.

PositiveThinking says it all. And each individual conquers this in his/her own way. No one "correct" way, unless a "magic bullet" comes along. Meantime a holistic approach and sharing info here is what we have to do.

Cheers,
D


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

*I would actually prefer to say, I have three NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS or SYNDROMES or in the case of some here ... possibly SYNDROMES OR DISORDERS OF THE ENDOCRINE SYSTEM OR ADRENAL-HYPOTHALMIC-ADRENAL AXIS.

At this point, I see DP/DR as secondary to SOME illnesses, including individuals who respond oddly to antibiotics and withdrawal from some medications, and more and more see DP/DR as a DISORDER in its own right when chronic, and one that is COMORBID, that goes "along with" other brain disorders.*


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## BlueTank (Jun 2, 2010)

In my time i've found that most arguments/discussions I get into will eventually hit semantics. I never liked those. People will define thigns and then take opinion on the definition (more semantics). It makes things really tough.

All I know is for each individual, its a problem if you say it is. So like I would check my email like 4 times in a row. I would find empty tabs open with "www." in them. I never even thought OCD so whatever with it. DP/DR wasn't even a problem for me until it became a problem for Me.

I don't know if its an illness or not. And a lot of times I don't care. I'm like that. The biggest argument people get in that i know of is "art". Is this or that "Art". and then you find everybody has different definitions and ideas on it. All I know is I want DP/DR to go away, right now.

By definition I am seeing some "impairment of emotional functioning" though some people could be like this from birth. are they ill? We are all different. *shrug*.

All I know is illness or not I want a "cure". hehe.


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## Surfingisfun001 (Sep 25, 2007)

Dreamer* said:


> possibly SYNDROMES OR DISORDERS OF THE ENDOCRINE SYSTEM OR ADRENAL-HYPOTHALMIC-ADRENAL AXIS.


Talk to me about this


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

S O L A R I S said:


> EDIT.
> 
> My post was offensive and harsh. I apologize if I offended you Tinyfairypeople. I am just passionate about eradicating stigma. No point of view is the correct one, so we need to give everyone the chance to say what they want freely without judgement and backlash.


SOLARIS, I didn't recall your post was offensive. But I do agree, though I may be passionate about my own stance ... and you know anti-stigma is my concern as well ... that we can all disagree here with consideration. I fear some people don't hear me speaking, my tone of voice, or I KNOW I come off differently in person.

And as I say ... each one of us is unique. "Many roads lead to Rome, and many roads lead out of DP/DR." We just have to find our path, and for some that takes far longer than others. And I don't understand why someone would be judged for this.

Cheers,
D


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

surfingisfun001 said:


> Talk to me about this












OK, this has been looked into a lot, and I know you have been into cortisol levels et al ....

Some articles from PubMed just for starters: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=PubMed

From PubMed -- great collection of medical journal articles on anything ... some abstracts, articles for purchase $$$$$, and some free downloads.
I plugged in the search: HPA axis and depersonalization disorder ... make sure you say depersonalization DISORDER as "depersonalization" is also a lay term for burnout ... and burnout is also common in the medical profession.

*Dissociative symptoms and neuroendocrine dysregulation in depression.*
Bob P, Fedor-Freybergh P, Jasova D, Bizik G, Susta M, Pavlat J, Zima T, Benakova H, Raboch J.
Med Sci Monit. 2008 Oct;14(10):CR499-504.PMID: 18830188 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*Depersonalization experiences in undergraduates are related to heightened stress cortisol responses.*
Giesbrecht T, Smeets T, Merckelbach H, Jelicic M.
J Nerv Ment Dis. 2007 Apr;195(4):282-7.PMID: 17435477 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

*Hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysregulation in depersonalization disorder.*
Simeon D, Guralnik O, Knutelska M, Hollander E, Schmeidler J.
Neuropsychopharmacology. 2001 Nov;25(5):793-5.PMID: 11682263 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

*Basal activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis in patients with depersonalization disorder.*
Stanton BR, David AS, Cleare AJ, Sierra M, Lambert MV, Phillips ML, Porter RJ, Gallagher P, Young AH.
Psychiatry Res. 2001 Oct 10;104(1):85-9.PMID: 11600192 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

I'm sick and I sure feel sick, I have a mental illness. It's called DPD. Mental illnesses are characterized by malfunctions of the brain which generally involve neurotransmitters. Call it what you will... a disease of the brain, a disorder (a disordered brain)... an illness.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

PS, this goes back to the anxiety and fight/flight connection I believe ... in simplest terms.

Correction here ... meant to say smaller HIPPOCAMPUS in brain. Hope I changed that. My bad.

The hypothalamus , the adrenal glands, and the pituitary are all interacting ... this is outrageously simplistic ... say in a fight/flight response. I do believe that in some of us here, this loop is "stuck" ... I was talking with a friend the other day and he asked me when in my life (of 51 years ... minus say the first 3 or 4) I could recall feeling "calm." It is very difficult to even recall what that is, in the sense that I have always been to one degree or another anxious. And he can't comprehend that, as he is a rather laid back person. So he has "healthy anxiety" when it is normal to be anxious. I seem to be born anxious.

Being constantly anxious is a vicious cycle. I think if my brain were scanned (an advanced scan -- I had a CAT when I was in my 20s that showed nothing, but there was nothing to compare it too!) my HIPPOCAMPUS might be "smaller than normal." I believe they have found this in many individuals with life-long anxiety disorders. Now, whether we were born with a small HIPPOCAMPUS, or whether chronic anxiety caused it to "shrink" ... well we can't know. Unless you do a scan of a baby's brain and scan the child over time until adulthood I suppose you would get a proper answer.

*I just recall that the brains of chronically anxious people IN COMPARISON TO VARIOUS CONTROL GROUPS ... have a smaller HIPPOCAMPUS. Is this because it has been worn out by an overactive adrenal system? Possible.*

So nothing is cut and dried here. I could have said more here, about 5 years ago when I was reading more books on the physiology of anxiety, but that stuff disappears from my poor old memory. There is one book that stands out in my mind, *"The End of Stress as We Know It"* -- by some Dr. McEwan? ... and he doesn't mean stress has been figured, it is a new interpretation of the effects of stress.

But we just don't have enough answers.

We can stress out mice/rats/monkeys, etc. and see patterns of behavior similar to ours. You can stress out an animal so much you can't get it back to normal. In some cases gene manipulation causes anxiety that is created to disappear!?!

Who knows. Much to learn.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

university girl said:


> I'm sick and I sure feel sick, I have a mental illness. It's called DPD. Mental illnesses are characterized by malfunctions of the brain which generally involve neurotransmitters. Call it what you will... a disease of the brain, a disorder (a disordered brain)... an illness.


Hi Uni!
I agree, and I'm a tad miffed that someone just gave you a negative point for your comment. That is unwarranted.
I've known uni girl from this board for some time. She has been through Hell and back.
Please give her some respect.
L,
D


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

tinyfairypeople said:


> Dreamer, I don't agree with you. Dp is a natural defense mechanism, not an illness and by allowing yourself to believe that you are "sick" it gives you the right in your mind to allow dp to keep happening. I know that you have had dp for a very long time and I can't imagine how that must feel. I also know that I too decided at one point that I was very "sick" and it made my dp a billion times worse. It gave me license to think of myself as special and things snowballed from there. I think that Phasedout24 is right that dp is a like a sneeze. It's a basic natural defense mechanism of the body. Sneezes try to expel potentially harmful intruders, as does dp. They just do so on a different level. The issue comes when the "protective mode" of dp doesn't get the signal to turn off. That's where we need to sort out the wiring manfunction.


Wanted to say one thing. We can agree to disagree. You say that at one point you "decided that I was very 'sick' and it made my dp a billion times worse." Interesting as for me, when I was finally diagnosed, I felt relief. A doctor knew what was wrong, had seen it in many other patients. I wasn't alone. At the time there wasn't the right treatment but some 15 years after that, I WAS given medications that have helped me to this day. And as I've said many times, I was diagnosed in 1975.

And if we have a "wiring malfunction" -- well ... sometihng is _*wrong*_ then, yes? MALFUNCTION. Not working properly. And in the majority of the population their wiring IS working properly.
Again, it's a matter of semantics I guess. And I am not ashamed to say my brain isn't working properly. That is actually freeing. THAT has actually helped me feel better, that I don't have to "fake my way" and "keep secrets" anymore. Helped me feel BETTER.

WE ARE ALL UNIQUE!


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Dreamer* said:


> Hi Uni!
> I agree, and I'm a tad miffed that someone just gave you a negative point for your comment. That is unwarranted.
> I've known uni girl from this board for some time. She has been through Hell and back.
> Please give her some respect.
> ...


Hey D! Thanks







Wow, you can rate people's comments now. Geez, I feel old.


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## university girl (Aug 11, 2004)

Dreamer* said:


> Wanted to say one thing. We can agree to disagree. You say that at one point you "decided that I was very 'sick' and it made my dp a billion times worse." Interesting as for me, when I was finally diagnosed, I felt relief. A doctor knew what was wrong, had seen it in many other patients. I wasn't alone. At the time there wasn't the right treatment but some 15 years after that, I WAS given medications that have helped me to this day. And as I've said many times, I was diagnosed in 1975.
> 
> And if we have a "wiring malfunction" -- well ... sometihng is _*wrong*_ then, yes? MALFUNCTION. Not working properly. And in the majority of the population their wiring IS working properly.
> Again, it's a matter of semantics I guess. And I am not ashamed to say my brain isn't working properly. That is actually freeing. THAT has actually helped me feel better, that I don't have to "fake my way" and "keep secrets" anymore. Helped me feel BETTER.
> ...


Very poetic! Telling myself it was ok that I didn't feel well because I was sick made things a lot easier for me. We are all unique.... words I have typed on here so many times though I am sure you have typed them more than me


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## junkinmahcranium (Jun 29, 2010)

Rogue Bullies said:


> I just wish this was taken more seriously. For as common as it seems it doesn't seem like anyone knows jack about it. I just can't believe this is a minor issue in psychiatry. For people who have it, it is a big issue.


This worries me. If psychs don't take it seriously, how is anyone supposed to get any real help?


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## rob35235 (Feb 21, 2009)

Try to bear with me. This is thought provoking, but if you think it out, it makes sense and will explain everything..
All mental illness is organic illness which is poorly defined, or not defined at all. Theories have ranged from an element or chemical being too high or too low, either systemically or just within the brain; or, the brain is dysfunctional in the way it functions in some ways such as the processing of chemicals, dysfunction in neuroreceptors. etc.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

*Agreed, and I just messed up, it is the hippocampus in the brain that would be smaller. Sorry, that's what posting when I should have been in bed will do.

HIPPOCAMPAL sp? VOLUME SMALLER.*


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

rob35235 said:


> Try to bear with me. This is thought provoking, but if you think it out, it makes sense and will explain everything..
> All mental illness is organic illness which is poorly defined, or not defined at all. Theories have ranged from an element or chemical being too high or too low, either systemically or just within the brain; or, the brain is dysfunctional in the way it functions in some ways such as the processing of chemicals, dysfunction in neuroreceptors. etc.


*AMEN.
Organic.
I say, neurological, medical, whatever. Organic is the best phrase! Thank you Rob!
*


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2010)

university girl said:


> Hey D! Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Greetings, hey if you're old than I am ANCIENT. You are YOUNG.
Wanna' change ages?


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## rob35235 (Feb 21, 2009)

Dreamer* said:


> *AMEN.
> Organic.
> I say, neurological, medical, whatever. Organic is the best phrase! Thank you Rob!
> *


Yea. I mean, organic is the scientific word for disease which is physical, and defined. MS and brain tumor, and lupus are organic diseases. Schizophrenia and bipolar and considered psychiatric. But, the truth is that psychiatry is the treatment of diseases which will one day be recognized as organic, but at present are not understood, or very poorly understood. This is an indisputable fact in my opinion; no matter how mysterious or complex a condition, mankind's lack of knowledge doesn't mean it doesn't exist. As of now, most mental illness is thought to be related to an imbalance in neurochemicals. But it's much deeper than that. The liver or kidney's can be mildly dysfunctional and we not know it, but, if our brain suffers from mild dysfunction, it impacts us like this. But we have no way to objectively measure the dysfunction, as with blood tests for liver or kidney disease. [well actually we do to an extent with nuclear brain imaging, but that's far from standard]

Neuro-psychiatry will be one of the great medical advances of this century; amongst others.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

*I hate to say this, but someone is really abusing the "negative vs. positive rating." We all have a right to our own opinions, right or wrong.
If someone wants to say something to me, even in a PM, say so. This is my POV after much research, much interaction with mentally ill people of all types, meeting with DPers in person.

I'm not pulling my theory out of thin air.

Please, tell me why I and others with an organic perspective are getting attacked here.

I am far from being the only one with the belief this is medical. If this is someone I know from the past, tell me.
I don't care, but if you wish to disagree, do so publically. Appreciated.

I know I seem to come off as "preachy" I write a lot, people know I talk to fast, type to fast and too much, that is who I am.
I wish you could understand this is passion that comes from my advocacy.

Peace,
D*


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## S O L A R I S (Dec 24, 2009)

Dreamer,

You are a source of strength to me personally. You are a success story, regardless DP or no DP, I admire anyone who can put themselves out there and still have a compassionate attitude towards life. Though I do not know you personally, there is an aura of courage, confidence, and humanity in every one of your posts.

Youre presence here is much much appreciated.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2010)

junkinmahcranium said:


> This worries me. If psychs don't take it seriously, how is anyone supposed to get any real help?


We are all here to help each other! There is a strong sense of companionship here in this great community. We are all going through this together and are here for each other. Also those who ARE researching DP/DR are also a part of this community: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22010-a-serious-book-project/


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## junkinmahcranium (Jun 29, 2010)

ThoughtOnFire said:


> We are all here to help each other! There is a strong sense of companionship here in this great community. We are all going through this together and are here for each other. Also those who ARE researching DP/DR are also a part of this community: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22010-a-serious-book-project/


I'm just a little hesitant about this "we help each other" deal. If you're fucked up yourself, how are you going to help me? and vis virsa?


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## Dragoon909 (2 mo ago)

This is an older post, but I have decided to ressurrect it.
Depersonalization and derealization imo are defense mechanisms, no doubt. 

It's strange, I never experienced it until I got extremely high anxiety years ago. It has came and went since, and that was in 2002. 

Definitely related to hormones.

Idk, I could call it an illness or disorder if someone has it for years. 

It depends on perspective concerning the dr and dp.


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## Chip1021 (Mar 24, 2018)

Whether or not DPDR is a mental illness depends on how mental illness is defined or conceptualized. Psychiatrists have had great difficulty defining mental illness (or mental disorder is their preferred term) in a manner that is descriptive and phenomenological, and that also includes all the phenomena that they would like to call mental disorders, and does not include all the phenomena that they do not want to call mental disorders. Why is it that the person who hears God’s voice telling him to commit evil acts is mentally ill, but the person who talks to God asking for forgiveness for the evil acts he has committed is not mentally ill? Why are certain “deviant” sexual proclivities classified as mental illnesses and others are not? It seems to me that “mental illness” is not a descriptive term at all but rather a dispositive (judgmental, strategic) term.

I find the question “is DPDR a mental illness” to be useless if our goal is to simply understand what it is that we are dealing with in the hopes of alleviating our distress and leading more rich, rewarding and meaningful lives.


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## Grindelwald (Jul 22, 2017)

junkinmahcranium said:


> This worries me. If psychs don't take it seriously, how is anyone supposed to get any real help?


They don't take it seriously because they don't know what it is or what it feels like and there's been very little research on it. This is beyond their comfort zone (and for most, their abilities)


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## Dragoon909 (2 mo ago)

"They don't take it seriously because they don't know what it is or what it feels like and there's been very little research on it. This is beyond their comfort zone (and for most, their abilities)"

That's true.
They don't know what it feels like.

They only know by just imagining what it feels like.


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## NoDevils (6 mo ago)

Mental illnesses are illnesses. I do agree that laypeople don't take mental illness seriously enough. The role of a researcher, scientist, or health practitioner in any disease is to study it impartially and not dismiss sufferers as crazy. I wish I could say health practitioners always deal with these matters with the highest possible seriousness but that's often not the case.


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## Trith (Dec 31, 2019)

I am not sure I understand what difference it makes if it is a mental illness or not. Whether people have an actual mental illness or just a little problem, some can in fact be helped with medication and/or therapy to have a better life regardless (schizophrenia, ptsd or just stress at work can all be helped with therapy and/or medication). So what other difference makes this important?
The OP said that DPDR should not be considered a mental illness because people who have DPDR should not be called crazy. Well, people with mental illnesses should not be called crazy either. Start first with respecting others before asking to be respected yourself. It's like saying "please don't treat me like these dirty schizophrenics, I have nothing to do with them!". Actually you do, you are a human being who is suffering and who has never decided to have these problems, so show some respect.
Also if people with DPDR don't want to get treated and want to keep their DPDR (I don't know if this exists), nobody is forcing them to get treated and nobody is judging them for it since almost nobody is generally aware they even have a problem, or most don't even acknowledge it. Nobody is judging them and forcing them to go to institutions like they have a moral problem or anything like that. So really, for me it doesn't make much difference, unless there is something I am missing.
Perhaps some people have some different emotional relationships with the concepts of "mental illness" or "not a mental illness". I don't feel like it is based on practicality, and I am questioning if this relationship might be based on some stigma. Having a mental illness should not be regarded as something degrading, any more than having terminal cancer or a toothache. People with AIDS were degraded because a lot of people had the shitty belief that it was payback for some supposedly immoral sexual acts. For mental illness there isn't even this excuse, there is really no reason.
So I have no clue if it qualifies the concept of mental illness, but if it did I would not run away from it, I would just give a big middle finger to those who think it is degrading in any way.
But I don't even think there are such people in the case of DPDR. I have never heard someone say "oh, you have DPDR, you're a weirdo". First, I don't even have to tell them, but if I do they generally don't understand what I am talking about and move on (or they can be supportive of course, most are), or they question the fact I have anything at all, which is another problem, or they will question my passion for diagnoses, saying we should all be "free of labels" and run naked in flower fields.


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