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## closetome

Doing something when you know it will cause you harm is a clear sign of addiction. I won't be making that mistake...pot isn't THAT good dog.....

Have you learned your lesson now?


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## Guest

Tigersuit? that must be really annoying for you, although don?t worry about it? I can relate to looking like an idiot and that?s totally fine? a vicious circle like addiction is not easily over come by one?s self? seek support.


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## turnIntoearth

Tigersuit said:


> I tell myself for sooo long after every time I smoke pot that it'll just make me feel worse, but I always end up making the wrong decision anyway...
> ...I believe I'll be chasing that high for the rest of my life, whether I want to or not...
> ...I'm a walking failure.


Tigersuit, man, don't be so hard on yourself. I have been in the exact same situation as you, to the letter. It can seem hopeless and depressing when you are in the depths of a place like that, but it can improve. I mean, words alone won't do it here... I can't say anything you haven't already heard, I'm sure... but, the key to all of this is to slowly find replacements for the niche that psychedelics had in your life. You just need something else to "chase". In my case, it was a relationship and having a child that turned my life around. There is no time for getting high when you have that kind of responsibility, which you simply cannot ignore. Once you're on the other side of addiction, it all seems plain as day. Until that happens, trust in good healing things and people, as much as you can muster.

_
~T_


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## Ludovico

You'll be fine. I get insanely messed up if I smoke weed now too, and at first it scared the shit out of me. I only smoke maybe 3-4 times a year now though and I've learned to enjoy it in it's new, powerfully dissociating form.


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## comfortably numb

Dont beat yourself up about it it's only pot. It's purely a habit and a small one at that. Not that im making light of your problem dont get me wrong on that one.

Atleast you never almost killed yourself on alcohol like i did. I was a big time alcoholic and suffered severe withdrawal's when going off the stuff. Atleast pot has no physical addiction. Atleast you dont have to worry about hallucinating or having a seizure if you dont get your next joint.

Ive also kicked opiates twice pretty much cold turkey and that wasent fun either. Not nearly as bad as alcohol but it's not pleasant feeling like your bones are gonna shatter into pieces for about 5 to 7 day's. I was taking them for medical purposes but the addiction is the same.

Hell i almost slipped up on the booze the other day. I found this half empty bottle of whiskey that some relative left over and i opened it and was about to take a big chug of it. The only thing that stopped me was the fact that i knew it would be a total trainwreck if i got drunk. And im not the one drink type either it's all or nothing. Plus ive been getting horrible craving's for a drink lately which i havent had in awile. Ive been thinking about just dropping my med's and just hitting the bottle full force.

So hey dont beat yourself up about it everyone slip's up. You just have to learn from your mistakes. It probley took me 10 tries or more to finally quit drinking but i did it. And look on the bright side atleast pot wont kill you. It might mess up your head abit but it aint gonna kill you.


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## closetome

I found strength in role models that don't use drugs like Stevie Wonder and the straight edge movement.


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## comfortably numb

closetome said:


> I found strength in role models that don't use drugs like Stevie Wonder and the straight edge movement.


 I just gotta say it. The straight edge thing is the lamest movement in the history of mankind. God how the suck. I wouldnt mind it if they didnt try to pawn off their views on everybody else (more drug's for me if they arent using them) but alot of them do. That's what pisses me off.

Thankfully they havent invaded here yet. If anyone of them little punk's ever tried to get on my case about drug's id spike their drink with a shitload of acid.


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## Rozanne

Being straight doesn't have to mean having no life. If you can have a laugh without drinking or smoking weed it can only be a good thing. And incidentally, I think people should be allowed to complain about drug-taking if it is going on in their house/dorm/social circle. It's something that effects everyone.


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## Ludovico

'Straight Edge' seems like a pretty natural progression of attitudes among the youth. Every generation rebels against whatever the previous generation adopted - this is nothing new or unique. Despite how passionately a social group adopts them, all trends are cyclical.

Straight edgers - your kids are going to be realllllllllyyyyy into drugs.


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## ?real?ity?

what a coincidence. i was finally getting away from drugs, and last night i was at my friends and a batch of ecstasy passed me by. i bought 5 hits and ate them all. after my 5th one i had this crazy ass panic attack and started tripping out and more so about reality. done with drugs. just gotta learn from your mistakes brother. just accept they aint for you, there isn't good coming from it(well most illegal drugs), and move on

i really don't know why i bought them, it was fucking stupid of me. i think i might have a self-abusive type of mental thinking, i'm not sure.. beats me


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## ?real?ity?

Tigersuit said:


> Taking 5 hits of E would probably send me into an institution. I've never done E before, but if one bowl of weed can make me feel this shitty, imagine what E could do..


yeah man, i'm used to blowing my mind up with psychedelics and such (how i developed dp/dr)

ecstasys effects in a way is almost similar to dp/dr, like i said, don't know why i did it, i was extremely stupid. done with drugs, i've dug myself a rabbit hole, i gotta find a way out, i gotta find my life again. i gotta find who i am again. i got to get out of this psychedelic weirdness. right now i'm not me, i'm alien, everything is, and it's terrifying, stupid of me.. really


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## Guest

Can?na ave a 12? Pizza Margherita Extra please ?real?ity?


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## ?real?ity?

Darren said:


> Can?na ave a 12? Pizza Margherita Extra please ?real?ity?


ugh ugh ugh! *does a barrel roll*


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## Guest

aww... damn, sorry i can't hijack threads any more... "no more fun"


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## ?real?ity?

i ruined it


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## Ludovico

[One] said:


> It isn't about rebellion, its about living life to its fullest without being slowed down by drugs and alcohol!


I'm certain that you believe that to be true, but the LSD generation would have said the same thing in regards to their lifestyle. Like I said, cyclical.


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## ?real?ity?

Ludovico said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't about rebellion, its about living life to its fullest without being slowed down by drugs and alcohol!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm certain that you believe that to be true, but the LSD generation would have said the same thing in regards to their lifestyle. Like I said, cyclical.
Click to expand...

even though psychedelics are what fucked up my mind, and cause an extreme case of dr with some dp. i have to agree. i think psychedelics are probably one of the best ways of changing the fundamental way of how a human thinks. wether good or bad. psychedelics........ are just fucked up.... enough said


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## Ludovico

Even if psychedelics caused my DP and DR, though I dont think they did - they were worth it.

They made me a better person.


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## ?real?ity?

oh yea tigersuit wanted to say, psychedelics also changed how weed affected me mentally too. and i've found in alot of people this happens to. i think i may know why this happens. weed in it's own way is considered a psychedelic and can cause anxiety, but not the to levels of a psychedelic trip. when one has a bad trip on psychedelics, when they smoke weed, i think they get what is called a flashback or just that same fear they had under the psychedelic influence. you probably know what i'm talking about. i can relate bro. same thing happens to me.


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## Guest

> Psychedelics make you enter the subconscious mind. You learn things about yourself you didn't know existed, and you gain an entirely new appreciation for everything, living, and inanimate, which lasts LOOONG after the initial effects have worn off. When you come down off acid and shrooms, the whole world is calm, everything looks beautiful, and you feel at peace with yourself and everything around you, and you continue to feel that way for a very long time.


Bullshit, everything becomes boring and lifeless, I will admit I have only tried LSD once, I was up and down for 72hours.
It is dangerous shit, that will ultimately fuck your brain.

Greg


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## ?real?ity?

well, it was the abuse of psychedelic drugs that put me in my derealised state also.

i will agree with the above poster somewhat. i do think psychedelics can throw your brain through a blender. but like i said, it all depends on the person. i think it has the posibility to do good and bad


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## closetome

You didn't sound very loose when you were telling One to fuck off Tigersuit.............


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## Guest

*Shakes head @ Tigersuit* :?


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## Guest

You're behaviour...tis alright saying mine?s bang out? although you don?t set out a good example for me to follow now do you?


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## enngirl5

Tigersuit, I used to be "addicted" to pot. I think I've realized why I clung to pot more than any other drug. Because I was always a worrier. Since as long as I could remember. And for the first time in my life, I could do this drug and not care about anything. Have the "whatever" mindset. It was interesting to me how very non-addictive pot was when I finally quit. I had been smoking pot all day every day for like 3 years and when I quit, I felt no withdrawal whatsoever. Not that I didn't miss it. I kept a stash under my bed for probably six months just in case I decided I needed some. Eventually I got rid of that, threw all my bowls, bongs, papers, etc away and was done with it.

But like you, I also would smoke knowing it would give me a panic attack. The first month that my panic attacks began, I tried to smoke, not wanting to give it up. And every time I smoked I had a bad panic attack. Eventually when I was away from home at school, in a dorm room, 5 hours away from my friends and family, I smoked a joint, freaked out, had the worst panic attack of my life which subsequently sent me into 24/7 panic and dr. After that I quit for good. Actually about a month later I tried it again, but I felt so controlled like I was trying so hard not to have a panic attack, that I couldn't enjoy it, and then never smoked again. It's been like 5 years.

I miss pot. I miss sitting around with friends smoking and being goofy. But it just messes with my anxiety. I know probably 20 other people now that also don't smoke any more because of their anxiety. Not to mention the countless people I've talked to online that say the same. I wouldn't call pot an addiction, it's just fun and it's one of those things where it sucks when you have to stop. It's nothing like quitting smoking or anything like that. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.


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## Guest

Tigersuit,

I didnt have a bad trip, in fact I laughed for 6 hours straight, I found it was like a dream.
Thing is, one of the people I was with said to me that if she had a gun that night she would have with no hesitation shoot me and Steve because we wouldn't stop laughing.
I never took another after that.
It was after the acid that life became boring and lifeless.
I don't view life that way now though, I am happy with what I have, I could do without the DP though :roll:

Greg


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## Guest

Time will tell.


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## Guest

Well, good on you!


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## Guest




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## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> for better or for worse!
> 
> i dont want to take them


 Well then how can you say psychedelics are bad? Not to mention you come off as abit of a know it all when you havent even tried the stuff. Yet you seem to judge people that do and you cant grasp the concept that they could actually have a positive impact on peoples lives.

They had a positive impact on mine and im definatly a better person for having taken them. But you refuse to even except that fact.

You dont know jack shitt about psychedelics unless you have tried them for yourself. Describing a trip on psychedelics to a person thats never taken them is like describing to a blind person what it's like to see.


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## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> Yeah, like that one kid who was on the news after taking a psychedelic. He explained to his mother how it opened his mind and it was legal. He also wrote in his journals about the great effects. About a week later he killed himself.


 Thats one case more then likely he would have offed himself anyway. You are alot more likely to kill yourself on alcohol then on acid or shrooms or any other psychedelic.

Ive come close to blowing my brains out while drunk but ive never felt the least bit suicidal on psychedelics. Mainly because the whole world looks beautiful when you have about 100 shroom's in you.

Granted i do react rather bad to alcohol anyway so thats why i dont touch it anymore. Im a violent drunk and it sets off my mania and not the good mania either. You just gotta know what drug's to stay away from and what ones you can handle. I can handle anything except alcohol. Granted a coke comedown aint fun either.

That psychedelic since it was legal was probley salvia. It's effects last about a half hour. That had nothing to do with that kids death at all.


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## closetome

comfortably numb said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> You just gotta know what drug's to stay away from and what ones you can handle.
Click to expand...

That's true. It's all about susceptibility and the individual. I'm a warm drunk...


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## jft

It is interesting to me the passion that occurs when these drug use/no use arguements occur. One has to wonder why this is. I have my ideas, but do not want to inflame this thread anymore.

My only problem with anyone saying that psychadelics were good for them is that others reading these threads may think it is okay for them to take them, even though the ones making the claim do not seem to be advocating them, they are only stating personal experience. That is why I feel it is good and fair for any postive claim made to be rebutted by someones elses negative experience . These rebuttals need not be judgemental, only stating personal experience.

That said I did psychadelics on and off for five years and then spent the next thirty years on an acid like permanent trip. That is my experience. The reason I did psychadeldics in the first place (I never ever intended to use them) was because two of my friends had good experiences on them and wanted me to share it. Their is no way of knowing how one will react to psychadelics, whether one has a prediposition to after effects or not.

I too tried to expand my mind and better my soul, after all I was a late sixties era hippie. I thought between us fellow druggies that we had solved all our problems and societies as well. I used to actually journal while tripping. When I look back on these journals I see some good thought, but nothing that changed the world or me. In fact my summary of experience can be told as it happened to Huxley (I think it was Huxley) on one trip, he thought he had solved some major philosophical dilemna while on acid, had his companion write it down for him as he was too stoned to do so. The next day he read what she had wrote down for him as he dictated and it said "it smells like paint thinner in here. You guys can make all the claims you want about a postive personal experience with drugs and I cannot argue with that, it is your experience. But I can add to your stories a multitude of others that say the exact opposite.

These arguements over at hppdonline got so bad between the pro use (who have hppd but do not regret psychaldelic use) and non use (whose lives were dramatically impacted negatively by pscyhadelics)) people that the way they solved it was to create a drug use forum where anyone could say what they wanted and hopefully not be rebutted or judged about their drug use.. Maybe that is what they need to do here.

jft


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## closetome

That's a funny story Jft. What was wrong with you? psychosis?


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## jft

Tigersuit. I agree with you, none of us can deny that for some, psychadelics have done what they claim. I mean look at mdma (if you want to call it a psychadelic) did for so many in the early years for psychotherepy, hell there were many doctors lobbying to not have it become a scheduled outlawed drug. My concern has always been that the wrong ears sometimes do not hear the whole story and wind up making uninformed choices. I do not know your experince, but I would say most people I know who tripped, especially getting into the 70's were not looking for anything more than a good time and lots of laughs. But I did know some monk types as you describe, some very reflective souls who were looking for enlightenment. I cannot judge anybody doing these drugs, I only am looking out for those like myself who woke up with the surprize of their life (dp/dr, or other drug induced disorders such as hppd) and no enlighenment.

Closeome, my life long drug induced diosrder is plain ol" derealization and depersonalization, which eerily reminds me of how I felt on acid, pot and pcp.
jft


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## Ludovico

Trying to explain psychedelic experience to a straight edger is like trying to explain sight to a person who has been blind since birth. It's pointless to try and sum up the effect it has on you in words.

Psilocybin made me a better person. It showed me that there is more to this life than what we can interpret with our five senses. It taught me to love and respect the gift of life and consciousness. It taught me to respect my parents and all the sacrifices they have made to give me a great life. It showed me that success in this life isn't defined by my occupation, social status, wealth or how many people I compete with. It allowed me to reflect on my life with a new perspective, and taught me that just _living_ is enough. They have given me an inner stability and confidence that no other experience could ever overshadow.

Psychedelics are illegal because the knowledge they give you promotes anti-capitalist values, not because they are dangerous. It's perfectly natural that many people simply can't handle the intensity and reality of the experience. These medicines are not toys, they are not drugs, and they must be given a tremendous amount of respect.


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## Guest

> It showed me that there is more to this life than what we can interpret with our five senses.


Yer, It taught me that a waterfall is in fact someone standing at the top of a cliff with a giant carton of milk pouring it out, it taught me that my car was made of rubber and that I could pass my hand through glass in the rear window, it taught me that the windscreen wipers on my car were actually cartoon and that the rain is actually shooting stars.
Just a warning to everyone, watch out when you are driving because it also taught me that a mail box can appear in the middle of the road at any time 

Greg :lol:


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## ?real?ity?

^ intense visuals. must of took to much. or you just naturally get strong visuals.

Ludivco, i had that same love for psychedelics. That's why I presued them so much. I thought I was on to something, almost an enlightenment, I was in it's own ways. But in the end I dug the rabbit hole so far down that I forgot how to get out. Even when I knew psychedelics had changed me in some way that I couldn't decribe, I kept taking them. Trying to get to that pure enlightenment I was always wishing for. Anyway, we could be different, but this is what happened to me.

jft, i also agree! i do not like the bashing arguements. they're old and what do they accomplish? look, in the end, it depends on the person. if you do not know how psychedelics will effect you, you shouldn't mess with them. if you take them and they already do help you, by all means have it then. no one can stop you.

edit: also are you sure that paint thinner story is true?


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## Guest

> That is scary


Actually no, it wasn't scary, it just felt normal, that's the scary part.
Well, when the steering wheel melted into my lap, that was pretty freaky :shock:

Greg


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## rlf

You have to be an idiot to use drugs.


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## rlf

On some level he is an idiot.


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## Guest

Plan B said:


> You have to be an idiot to use drugs.


Is that an hole in your foot?... "ouch".


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## rlf

I'm not impressed.


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## rlf

I don't take the risk of really screwing myself up.


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## Guest

Tigersuit... you haven't impressed him/her... lol


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## Ludovico

Plan B said:


> You have to be an idiot to use drugs.


Wow, brilliant argument. I think you've converted me. :roll:

I dont feel like psychedelics have ever put me in a 'rabbit hole' as I have never used them often. I've only taken psilocybin 4 times and only 2 of those were strong trips. I've only had E twice and it's not psychedelic.


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## Terri

Edit.


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## Terri

My mistake Tigersuit, carry on.

Jasmin


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## rlf

I don't give a flyin' fcuk what any of you druggies think.


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> I feel really disconnected, and sort of sad. I feel like crying, but I know I won't.
> 
> I'm a walking failure.


You enjoy taking drugs?? Weird


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## Guest

Plan B said:


> I don't give a flyin' fcuk what any of you druggies think.


I'M TELLIN MUM!


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## jeremy

Or should I say you seem to enjoy defending the usage of drugs.


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or should I say you seem to enjoy defending the usage of drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I do. I'm all for freedom of choice, and abolition of ignorance. Just because drugs didn't go well with me in the past, does not mean it will be exactly the same for everyone.
Click to expand...

So am I. Just dont whinge about the effects of the choice with your poor me attitude.


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## Guest

jeremy said:


> So am I. Just dont whinge about the effects of the choice with your poor me attitude.


Amen.


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## Guest

Think ya BOTHERED him jeremy :lol: ... would you like a merit?


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## jeremy

Darren said:


> Think ya BOTHERED him jeremy :lol: ... would you like a merit?


Haha. Nah, I'll just let him be now.


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## ?real?ity?

Tigersuit said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, exactly like drugs!
> 
> There is a difference between being in an area where you can fall through a collapse...
> 
> and then you can just throw yourself into a collapse (drug use!)
> 
> 
> 
> By moving my fingers and wrists the way I do in order to play drums, I am putting myself in an area where I can fall through a collapse.
> 
> Same with taking drugs. They put you in an area where you can fall through a collapse. Drugs do not automatically flower* your life up, contrary to your radical beliefs.
Click to expand...

agreed

speaking of drug use, my hangover from the ecstasy(by the way which i think is a psychedelic) is getting better. infact, this the first time, in awhile, where i'm just content in just trying to relax and just not caring about my dr experience, instead of being dr'd and trying to find "contentness" in replaying extreme derealized moments in my past in my head. i guess trying to make sense of my dr'd state? or why i'm experiencing this? i know that sounds weird but i do that. i'll be drd and i'll be scared of it and past thoughts about extreme dr moments where i thought madness was seeping in and i was losing grip on reality will creep into my mind. which just makes things worse. sometimes i would get so dr, especially when someone is talking to me, my vision looks almost 2d, like i know alot of people say that, and i'm not sure what they mean by this, but it will literally just turn 2d looking for a bit of time and everything around me looks fake, like i'm actually in a movie. not actually but literally, i'll think i'm literally in a game or some type of program of some sorts.


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> My mistake, smart ass.


That made me laugh.


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## ?real?ity?

Tigersuit said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> you need to get a flashlight so you can see the collapse that is up ahead in ward 2... drugs are just going to bring you one step closer to that collapse and you won't turn on your flashlight to see it. :?
> 
> 
> 
> I QUIT DRUGS.
> I haven't touched the shit for months, and I never plan to again.
> 
> It's like you're purposely misunderstanding me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WELL THEN WHY ARE YOU BEING SO "OMG DON'T HATE DRUGS THEY CAN DO GOOD FOR YOU"?!?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Drugs didn't work for me. That doesn't mean they won't work for anyone else. Shrooms did do good for me initially, but I took it too far. This was entirely my fault, not the drugs themselves. Drugs CAN do good for you...they just didn't do good for me.
> 
> Understand yet?
Click to expand...

haha, if i've been following correctly this has been his arguement the whole time. i don't see how you can really argue against this. it really depends on the person. edit: also the experience itself


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> Drugs didn't work for me. That doesn't mean they won't work for anyone else. Shrooms did do good for me initially, but I took it too far. This was entirely my fault, not the drugs themselves. Drugs CAN do good for you...they just didn't do good for me.
> 
> Understand yet?


Valid point but it doesnt work in modern society. The majority of people take drugs as an escape when they are in a bad emotional state.


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Drugs didn't work for me. That doesn't mean they won't work for anyone else. Shrooms did do good for me initially, but I took it too far. This was entirely my fault, not the drugs themselves. Drugs CAN do good for you...they just didn't do good for me.
> 
> Understand yet?
> 
> 
> 
> Valid point but it doesnt work in modern society. The majority of people take drugs as an escape when they are in a bad emotional state.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Psychedelics should never be used as an escape. Anyone who knows anything about drugs knows this. If you're having a bad time in your life and take acid to get away from it, your acid trip will be bad, and generally make your life worse.
Click to expand...

They shouldn't, but they do. Alcohol also is apparently good for you too. But I see more people fucked up from it than helped.


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Alcohol also is apparently good for you too. But I see more people flower* up from it than helped.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't compare alcohol and psychedelics, dude. They're not even remotely similar. Alcohol will ruin your life a lot faster than shrooms will.
Click to expand...

It was a metaphorical analogy. All I know is there are more fucked up people from drugs than helped, by an absolutely huge margin so its a nonsensical argument in my eyes, but of course you are entitled to your opinion and thats cool.

A moderate intake of alcohol has been proved scientifically to be good for you. Wine specifically. But of course I know shit all.


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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> A moderate intake of alcohol has been proved scientifically to be good for you. Wine specifically. But of course I know shit all.
> 
> 
> 
> Red wine is good for you because of the anti-oxidants in the grapes. You can get the same effect from drinking grape juice.
Click to expand...

Semantics


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## jeremy

[One] said:


> And no, eating McDonalds is not worse than taking LSD... WTF are you talking about. LSD will fry your brain.


Yeah in fact Tigersuit, if you look up SuperSize Me on wikipedia, there are plenty of people who have lost weight and lowered their cholesterol and blood pressure by doing a non biased experiment on eating McDonalds.


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## Ludovico

This is just mental masturbation by a bunch of ignorant children. None of you seem to know the slightest bit about the pharmaceutical, social and historical actions of these chemicals and you're just engaged in a poo throwing contest.

Just because you state something doesn't mean it's true, and if you believe the stuff you read on the internet you are gullable as hell. This is like watching a christian and a muslim trying to convince each other that their religion is the correct one.


----------



## jeremy

Ludovico said:


> This is just mental masturbation by a bunch of ignorant children. None of you seem to know the slightest bit about the pharmaceutical, social and historical actions of these chemicals and you're just engaged in a poo throwing contest.
> 
> Just because you state something doesn't mean it's true, and if you believe the stuff you read on the internet you are gullable as hell. This is like watching a christian and a muslim trying to convince each other that their religion is the correct one.


I agree with some of this statement. The mental masturbation comment im not sure about though....

All I know is what I see in NA meetings.


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## 17545

[quote name


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## jeremy

[One] said:


> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a guy on LSD, looks like it did him a lot of good:
> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/newsletter/i ... akout.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

My god


----------



## ?real?ity?

[One] said:


> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> And no, eating McDonalds is not worse than taking LSD... WTF are you talking about. LSD will fry your brain.
> 
> 
> 
> Correction, LSD _can_ fry your brain. There is no absolute.
> 
> On the other hand, MacDonalds _will_ give you heart disease.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LSD can and most likely will fry your brain. No, McDonalds won't give you heart disease, unless you gorge yourself. I just had an egg mcmuffin and hashbrown today and I am no where near heart disease. I have low blood pressure and I'm not overweight. I also had donuts and an iced caramel latte (not starbucks, sadly).
> 
> Here is a guy on LSD, looks like it did him a lot of good:
> http://www.ebaumsworld.com/newsletter/i ... akout.html
> 
> Here is a test of what happens when a cat is on LSD, looks like it was very beneficial, does it not?:
> http://emuse.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/6748
Click to expand...

wow poor kitty. that was during when lsd was becoming well known. lots of test were done on it. i bet they gave that cat 10x the normal dose a human would take. poor kitty.

dude, if you gave someone a shitload of antidepressants they'd probably start having seizures to, throwing up, and probably death. science gets alot deeper than just personal experience dude. or i should say personal judgement

lsd, does not cause brain damage. and even with it's potency , it's basically almost impossible to od on

and i agree with ludivco this is turning into a poo throwing contest ;p


----------



## ?real?ity?

[One] said:


> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Like I said, not everyone who takes LSD is going have a good reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.. and what about the cat!? How was his reaction?? I'm sure that cat turned into a better person, he was enlightened. That cat must be so much better! It sure did show in the way it was stretched out and shaking at the bottom of the cage.
Click to expand...

read my post please


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## 17545

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## 17545

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## 17545

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## Ludovico

[One] said:


> ...Mental masturbation, where are you coming from?


You don't appear to have any idea what you're talking about. You speak with a lot of passion but you have absolutely no credibility because you're totally uninformed and uneducated on the subject. If you're going to enter a debate, just having an opinion isn't enough.

Comments like 'LSD will fry your brain' just dont make any sense. How can you fry your brain? Using a metaphor you stole from a first lady doesn't make you sound intelligent or informed, it makes you sound impressionable. Millions of people have taken LSD and experienced zero or moderate side effects. Psilocybin, Mescaline, Ayahuasca and numerous other psychedelics have been used for thousands of years by hundreds of millions of people throughout history. They have been a critical aspect in the development of many of the oldest cultures on earth. The LSD phenomenon in the USA was not a unique event in human history - it just happened very late. Most cultures were exploring the use of these substances thousands of years earlier.

Their use predates any religion or organization of any kind on earth. They are not considered to be psychologically or physically addictive - even by the governments standards - but they should be illegal? More people died from using Aspirin last year than have died from using psychedelics in the last three decades.


----------



## jeremy

Ludovico said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Mental masturbation, where are you coming from?
Click to expand...

I've had enough of this argument. Im going for some real masturbation now :shock:


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## 17545

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## 17545

[quote


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## 17545

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## 17545

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## ?real?ity?

hahahaha the more you know... i remember that episode on family guy


----------



## comfortably numb

Plan B said:


> You have to be an idiot to use drugs.


 You would have to be a idiot to make a blanket statement like that. You cant say drug's are bad for everyone and that everyone who takes them is an idiot because it's simply false. Thats a rather ignorant statement if there ever was one.

Many people who have taken drug's are pretty smart and psychedelics in paticular attract people who are inquisitive. The word psychedelic means mind reveling in greek after all.


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> LSD can and most likely will fry your brain.


 Lsd does not fry your brain. There is no evidence that LSD causes any cell death at all in your brain.

In fact no goddamn drug actually fries your brain. Some can cause downregulation of neurotransmitters and there is a very weak link between olney's lesions in rat's and the heavy use of dissociatives but that's still not frying your brain. The link in olney's lesion's in rat's doesent seem to carry over into humans and also the doseage that produced that effect is way over the recreational dose and would probley kill a human.


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> It will kill brain cells.


 Where is the Proof to back that one up?


----------



## Dreamer

This is one of the strangest threads I've ever read.

One book I recommend and found fascinating is

*The Chemistry of Mind Altering Drugs: History, Pharmacology, and Cultural Context* Daniel M. Perrine, The American Chemical Society, Washington, D.C., 1996

Some knowledge of chemistry helps but is a great read without it. The history of drugs and culture, how they've been developed, etc. Fascinating.

I don't know what to make of Rec drugs. I've never had one. And as I've said many, many times, I had DP/DR experiences starting around age 4 or 5. As I got older I was scared shitless. I came equipped with my own altered state of consciousness.

I was astounded by other kids who experimented with drugs, but I'll say, I didn't have a lot of friends who were so heavily into drugs either.

I have a theory, that isn't new, here that many here self-medicate. If one is prone to anxiety, social problems, depression, etc. one will seek out relief in some form.

At any rate, we are all unique and everyone who takes ANY drug will not have the same reaction. I have seriously considered legalizing all Rec Drugs ..... unless they are deemed truly life-threatening. But then again, we know cigarettes can kill, and they are legal. Same with alcohol.

*If drugs were legal they could be quality controlled, i.e. one wouldn't end up with comet cleanser in some coke. As I understand it, street drugs are dirty. IMHO that is asking for trouble, simply a potential medical disaster.

There also would be less crime. Drugs could be taxed as are cigarettes and liquor, regulated for minors, and not advertised on TV etc. per cigs, etc.*

However, again, as never having taken a rec drug save a tad of alcohol in my life, true, I can't understand any of your experiences -- those of you who have.

But I have to say, my self-generated DP/DR can be so hideous, it is completely obvious there is something neurologically awry going on in there. What I don't know. If my own brain can cause that much suffering, I can't imagine the terror of some of the bad trips described. I would never risk one. I get terrified of anesthesia.

I don't know why there is such nasty language about this. It's weird. I can't figure it.

But this flipped me out. These new sleep aids they have, Ambien, Cymbalta. There are new warnings on them. People go beyond sleep walking. They binge eat at night and can't figure why they've added 10 pounds in 2 weeks. They get in their cars and drive and have no recollection how they got 40 miles from home. There you have a perfect illustration, by drug, of a dissociative fugue state of some sort.

This was also duplicated by Halcion, and scared the Hell out of two doctors who both conducted a complete day of work without any recollection of a thing they did, including giving lectures to students, having luch meetings, etc. Retrograde amnesia.

Finally. I HAVE felt, at certain times in my youth, a clear, beautiful reality, a tremendous appreciation of the world, great feelings of hope an joy. I know I did. I still remember them. But the DP/DR has taken them away for so long I fear forgetting them.

Again, IMHO, I can't imagine, truly, that a drug really makes someone "better." They may have amazing experiences, all of which described here scare the HELL out of me. But does it really mean you have experienced anything other than what is inside your own brain? A tumor, or epilepsy can cause all sorts of feelings of being "one with the universe", "feelings of a deep religious connection, etc."

I would rather have my given senses fully intact. That's all I want. No more, no less. And I've never taken a rec drug for fear I will fall into Hell. Ah, alcohol for me causes severe DP/DR, as do pre-op sedatives.

I can see all the POVs here, but I'm astounded at the rage this engenders -- is that a word. I'm tired, and again can't sleep -- no Ambien for me though! LOL.

I see messing with "Mother Nature", our bodies, our brains, isn't such a great idea. It's a risk I wouldn't take. Just my POV.

*I don't understand how many of you who take drugs, feel "safe" enough that you will return from a trip? How do you know, when something changes your "self" so dramatically that you will return the same way you started?

I'm just saying my thinking on this is so radically different. And it only comes from having DP/DR "naturally" at an early age. No one gave me any drug lectures -- maybe a couple in assembly at school. And socializing has always been possible without ANY rec drug, though a glass of wine or a margarita can be nice.

Folks, we are all unique!*

:shock:


----------



## ?real?ity?

dreamer, is it anything experienced outside of what just our brains our? on a scientific level, no.

how can one trust they will return? can't. if one is dp/dr, they should not take psychedelics. if you're already in fear of this altered concious we are in, this would be the worst thing you could do.

dr to me is already almost a spiritual quest. it's too much for me already ;p couldn't handle dr and psychedelics

oh yeah i forgot what member it was that posted earlier, huxley writing down "it smells like paint thinner in here" can you provide proof of this, never heard of it


----------



## ?real?ity?

http://www.nvo.com/cd/trip/

brings back memories 

edit: http://www.nvo.com/cd/nss-folder/tripre ... SH3PT5.MP3

...who am i? ... what is this experience? ...what are "*my*" boundries? hehe, sound familiar?


----------



## turnIntoearth

Dreamer said:


> This is one of the strangest threads I've ever read.


Agreed. Last time I checked it, on page 2, it was still relevant and potentially helpful. Now I read the latest page and there is talk of porno, the Japanese government and LSD-induced brain damage. There is not a whole lot that could reign all this back in on-topic, so the only thing you can really say is:



Dreamer said:


> *Folks, we are all unique!*


People have to figure this stuff out for themselves. To quote Hunter S. Thompson: 
_"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."_


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## 17545

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## Guest

You must have sore heads by now, shit.
All that banging your heads against the wall :lol:

Greg


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## closetome

One of the things which I think about is words don't really matter when talking about drugs, the main thing is whether you do it or not beacuse the perosn that does is the one that might be up at 2 in the morning freaking the hell out having a horrible time.....better safe than sorry...I'm really glad I'm off weed. So many people do it now you could consider yourself more of an outlaw renegade if you don't.


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## 17545

life.


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## comfortably numb

Dreamer said:


> *I don't understand how many of you who take drugs, feel "safe" enough that you will return from a trip? How do you know, when something changes your "self" so dramatically that you will return the same way you started?
> *


*

The fear of not coming down from a psychedelic trip is actually pretty common ive seen it more then a few times. More often then not it's first time user's who get this fear and start to freak out abit. But as soon as you remind them that a shroom trip will be over in about 6 hour's or a LSD trip will be over in 12 hour's or so regardless of how they feel now they will usually calm down.

Ive experienced this fear myself and i think alot of it has to do with those stories you hear of but never having any proof to back them up of some person never coming down from a trip. Sure you can get HPPD but this usually only happens after extended heavy use but you will come down off the trip regardless.

There have been times when i had a really good trip going that i never wanted to come down. I was in paradise why the hell would i want to go back to boring old reality after that? But the trip dies down and reality comes back the next morning. Granted with shrooms in paticular i always felt really good and at peace for a few day's after. I have no idea why that is but it might have something to do with it's effect's on serotonin or perhaps it's as simple as some of the magic still lingering on. I guess it's a really good thing that psychedelics are the least addictive drug's on the planet because if you could keep the high going like with morphine or heroin id probley never come down.




People have to figure this stuff out for themselves. To quote Hunter S. Thompson: 
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."

Click to expand...

 That's the best thing ive heard on this thread so far. There are very few people that where more experienced with drug's then he was so he certainly knew what he was talking about.

Basically it's all individual. If you don't want to do them fine and if you do that's fine as well.*


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Anyone who does drugs just to go against the norm is a moron.


Every one who does Coke are morons? Coke is a ego boost; nothing more, nothing less? and of course it takes you outta the ?norm?


----------



## Pablo

Tigersuit said:


> Anyone who does drugs just to go against the norm is a moron. The exact same applies to those who don't do drugs.
> 
> These kind of choices should be personal decisions based on your own knowledge and your own wants, rather than what you think other people expect of you.
> 
> Doing, or not doing, simply because someone else may or may not like it, is a very shallow approach to life.


I wouldnt say that they are morons they are just young. I used to do all sorts of things just to either fit in or go against the grain, its all part of growing up.


----------



## jft

Comfortably Numb, you are right in that it seems that most get hppd visuals after repeated exposure to hallucinogens, but there are way too many that get it from one dose. Some have even gotten it from their drinks being spiked at a party, one time dose and a life of visuals. You are right in that one technically does come down from the whole trip experience, but if you are left 24/7 with seeing walls breathing and static and colors and patterns and sparks then has one really come down? And in the case of drug induced dp/dr, if one is jsut feeling stoned like on acid(low dose stone) all the time, is that really coming down? Again the vast majority do not wind up like me or like those over at hppdonline, but some do. That is who I look out for and try to protect by offering couterpoint. For me, I think I went down that "rabbit hole" some other poster spoke of, I dug too deep with too many drugs. I should have quit much earlier than I did.

Reality, I could not find that anecdote about Huxely.. I did qualify my story when I posted it by saying I could be wrong that it was Huxely, but I am quite sure it was. I will continue to look for it. 
jft


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## 17545

[quot


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who does drugs just to go against the norm is a moron.
> 
> 
> 
> Every one who does Coke are morons?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, another person completely twisting my words around.
Click to expand...

"Anyone" means "anyone"... that includes people who do coke =), gawd I?m only quoting ya.


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## 17545

f


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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> If you think I said that everyone who does coke is a moron, you should probably re-read my post.


When you're in the wrong... seems every one has misread your posts.


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## 17545

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## 17545

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## Guest

Oh I beg your pardon, you're totally right with "everything" you say :mrgreen:


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## 17545

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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one was making a valid point, you can do research online that LSD is harmful to the brain.
> 
> 
> 
> I just read the entire Wikipedia article on LSD, which is unbiased, and I saw nothing claiming LSD causes any physical damage to the brain.
Click to expand...

LOL... you 100% beleive what Wikipedia tells you? "Any one" can write and edit what wiki says... It's about 50% true :lol:


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## 17545

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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I beg your pardon, you're totally right with "everything" you say :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> Prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

huh, I already said you're right :?


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> No one was making a valid point, you can do research online that LSD is harmful to the brain.
> 
> 
> 
> I just read the entire Wikipedia article on LSD, which is unbiased, and I saw nothing claiming LSD causes any physical damage to the brain.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL... you 100% beleive what Wikipedia tells you? "Any one" can write and edit what wiki says... It's about 50% true :lol:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> He told me to do research online, so that I did.
Click to expand...

And what does that tell you, that you "need" to do research?... heh; come now Tigersuit... you're "always" right :wink:


----------



## Guest

[One] said:


> Although Wikipedia is accurate


I disagree with you, read what is says on DR/DP, does that seem accurate to you?


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## 17545

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## 17545

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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although Wikipedia is accurate
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with you, read what is says on DR/DP, does that seem accurate to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LSD can cause DP/DR. Being born can cause it as well. :?
Click to expand...

Sorry Tigersuit, I mis-worded that, what I mean is? Wikipedia is not accurate in my eyes? and I asked [One] to read what it says about DR/DP because it?s not 100% accurate what they say about DR/DP, I?m not linking this to drugs.


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## 17545

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## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> Although Wikipedia is accurate, just being it isn't on Wikipedia doesn't mean its not true. Search harmful effects LSD does on brain or something in Google.


 There is not one piece of evidence that LSD, psilocybin or any other tryptamine psychedelic causes one bit of brain damage. Brain damage meaning death of brain cell's.

They can cause HPPD but nobody really knows the mechanism behind this. Clonazepam seem's to work on HPPD rather well and ive read somewhere (im not digging through shitloads of articles to find it again) that clonazepam has some interaction with the serotonin receptor's. How this work's i dont know but it seem's to have effect's that are different then other benzodiazepines.

So yes you can get HPPD or dp/dr from using psychedelics but we don't have a goddamn clue really what causes it. Hell even dissociatives which have really nothing in common with traditional psychedelics can cause HPPD.

I was born with dp/dr and brain fog as well so maybe that's why these drug's have a positive effect on me. Clonazepam cured my dp/dr completly by the way which was a totally unexpected occurance i can tell you that. So i there may be some link between HPPD and dp/dr even if you are born with dp/dr. But that's my wild guess and a lousy one at that.

By the way what is HPPD really like? I used mushroom's over a 100 times and never experienced it. All i ever got was the occasional flashback. Do you see those color trail's and trees breathing and stuff like that if you have HPPD?


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## 17545

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## closetome

[One] said:


> That... or you use LSD... which induces psychosis, and it never goes away.


what do u mean One? Psychosis does go away....


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## none

//


----------



## closetome

closetome said:


> So many people do it now you could consider yourself more of an outlaw renegade if you don't.





Tigersuit said:


> Anyone who does drugs just to go against the norm is a moron. The exact same applies to those who don't do drugs.
> 
> These kind of choices should be personal decisions based on your own knowledge and your own wants, rather than what you think other people expect of you.
> 
> Doing, or not doing, simply because someone else may or may not like it, is a very shallow approach to life.


just an idea fu!cko....just something to think about that's all.....


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## 17545

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## closetome

Tigersuit...did your symptoms start to calm down after that bud u smoked?
peace


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## 17545

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## closetome

no point, just wondering


----------



## comfortably numb

I think less psychedelics and more valium is needed on this thread. No need for personal insult's.


----------



## closetome

i don't think valiums good for a drug addled brain

i used to abuse that stuff too

took about 5, really cool like ur in touch with god but ur blatantly not....i've got friends that sit in their room and do 28 of them....ridulous lol

I'm always amazed at how angry situation can be turned around and be an oppertunity for love, that's the type of thing i've learned wether becuz of drugs or not


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## 17545

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----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> Although Wikipedia is accurate
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with you, read what is says on DR/DP, does that seem accurate to you?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The wikipedia article on DP/DR is very accurate in my case.
Click to expand...




> You can help Wikipedia by introducing more precise citations.


----------



## Rozanne

Tigersuit said:


> Plan B said:
> 
> 
> 
> On some level he is an idiot.
> 
> 
> 
> An idiot with marks in the high 90s, a genius level IQ, and a perfectly happy, normal life.
Click to expand...

If his life is perfectly happy and normal, why is he doing drugs?

And what does being a medical student mean anyway? That you are a person who can pass exams and have the intelligence and confidence to take the lead in difficult situations.

There's no use in blurting out the merits of drugs based on the fact that many health professionals are drug/alcoholics.

The fact is that many of the people in the medical profession who are addicted do it because of stress and responsibility, combined with their access to medicines.


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> For the record, I didn't get DP/DR from psychedelics, or pot. I got it from caffeine.


I have read you wrote this in the past, how did it trigger your DR/DP, was it a panic attack due to the caffeine?


----------



## Rozanne

What my point is above is that it isn't a "druggie doing medical school" but a "medic doing drugs"...and that is sad.

I have to admit that I have been smoking cigarettes in the last three months and have come to the point where it was a choice between being addicted and smoking regularly each day, or quiting.

I've decided to quit, but I admit that when I read this thread, I do get pangs of curiousity over drugs because I am an escapist and interested in new experiences.

The only thing is that when I read passages about people "goofing out with weed with friends"...I can't help but think there is something really sad about that as well.

What happened to enjoyment in music and nature, art, painting, love-making, spirituality?

Surely drugs are not the answer to self-actualisation?

Apart from that Tiger - was it you that mentioned it unlocked the unconscious mind?

Well that seems like quite a dangerous thing to do unnaturally. Really, that should be done at the rate at which the person can cope and tolerate it.

Don't drugs give an "artificial high"? Not meaning that the drugs themselves are artificial, but that they make you high in an artificially abrupt, synthetic manner?

My instincts tell me, as a sensitive person, to stay well away.


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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> When you're playing music you wrote in front of a crowd of 700, you don't exactly think to yourself: I can do it with out these drugs.


Gawd i love mis-quotes :mrgreen:


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Miss_Darling said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to enjoyment in music and nature, art, painting, love-making, spirituality?
> 
> 
> 
> Why can't you enjoy these things as well as drugs?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL.. yeah why can't we just enjoy music, nature, art, painting, love-making, spirituality... oh yeah, and drugs!! I don't think drugs belong with these things..
> 
> Miss_Darling, I agree. These things are important and thats why I love art, music, photography and what not. These things are much more meaningful than drug use.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once again, you ignore my entire post.
Click to expand...

When you've "ignored" his post... it's means you're right... because he can't say anything esle... lol


----------



## jeremy

I can't believe this thread is still going!!! Tigersuit I find your opinions utterly ridiculous and conflicted considering your original post.


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## 17545

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## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> I went to my storage room, and found the last remaining crumbs of my dads marijuana stash. I scraped it out, and smoked it....big mistake.


He's obviously done too many drugs...his memory is slightly poor.


----------



## Guest

jeremy said:


> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went to my storage room, and found the last remaining crumbs of my dads marijuana stash. I scraped it out, and smoked it....big mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> He's obviously done too many drugs...his memory is slightly poor.
Click to expand...

LOL... but wait a minute...


> you ignore my entire post.


 ROFLOL


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## 17545

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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Note the "me". It makes *ME* feel absolutely terrible. Not *EVERYONE*, but *ME* as in *MYSELF*.


Made *me* feel terrible as well... you're not alone pal )hugs(


----------



## Guest




----------



## Guest

Drugs didn't like that guy ^ either =*(


----------



## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went to my storage room, and found the last remaining crumbs of my dads marijuana stash. I scraped it out, and smoked it....big mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> He's obviously done too many drugs...his memory is slightly poor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Notice the "big mistake"? You might've missed that, if you did, I apologize.
> 
> Yes, I smoked about a 100 miligrams of marijuana once, and got drunk once, since I stopped heavily smoking weed 3 months ago. It made me feel absolutely terrible. Note the "me". It makes *ME* feel absolutely terrible. Not *EVERYONE*, but *ME* as in *MYSELF*.
> 
> DRUGS MAKE ME FEEL SHITTY. I HAVE A BAD REACTION TO DRUGS. WHY SHOULD I LOOK AT EVERY DRUG USER AS A LOWER FORM OF HUMAN JUST BECAUSE DRUGS DON'T LIKE ME?
Click to expand...

I understand now what is underlying this. I personally dont think drug users as a lower form of human, and I am sure most others that are arguing with you dont either. None of us has said that so it must be a belief you have yourself.


----------



## 17545

A lot of my friends are drugs users, and it saddens me when people look at them as equals to the scum at the bottom a septic tank, when they really aren't. They're perfectly normal, capable human beings, who contribute to society just as much as any of you do.


----------



## 17545

jeremy said:


> None of us has said that so it must be a belief you have yourself.


One said that he felt sorry for another member who said that psychedelics had made him a better person, and that he didn't regret doing them. Like, seriously, why would you feel sorry for a guy who's bettered himself? That doesn't make ANY sense.
Another member said that anyone who does drugs is an idiot.

No, that is not a belief I have myself, you effing retard. If I believed that myself, I wouldn't waste so much god damn time tapping away at my computer arguing. Don't try to claim I believe something I don't. You aren't me.


----------



## Guest

> Football is for weak people.


----------



## 17545

[q5


----------



## jeremy

Like I say, no one actually said "Drug users a re a lower form of human". Being an idiot certainly doesnt make someone a lower form of human. Hell if that was the case we all would be lower forms of human at some stage in our lives.


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Football is for weak people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Who is that a quote of?
Click to expand...

My brother Carl =)


----------



## Guest

jeremy said:


> Being an idiot certainly doesnt make someone a lower form of human.


lol... yay, people are making me laugh for once... *claps*


----------



## 17545

[quot5


----------



## Rozanne

At the end of the day, it's you clinging onto the argument about drug-users being a "lower form of human"...probably because addiction makes you feel that way.

I felt really low when I was addicted to sugar/eating. I mean, nothing could have made me feel more low than not being able to control my impulses in a basic way.

But like someone said very far back, think it might have been turnIntoearth: once you have beat addiction you look back at it as nothing. But when you are in it, it's awful.

I'm addicted to this site, and I admit I am in a way missing my "*** breaks" when I'd look at the stars.

Anyhow Tiger (what's your real name by the way?) - I didn't say you don't enjoy music. I was saying that drugs are no substitute for pure spirituality.

And once again you show your prejudices...why should I really care about Shoalin Monks if I feel I am making the right choices and decisions in my own life?

My life is different to that of a Shoalin Monk and drugs are not good for *me*. It's that type of self-centredness which should lead a person to not do things which are bad for them, not social control or ostracising.


----------



## Guest

Yeah, writing to a lady like ?that?; you should be ashamed of yourself Tigersuit!


----------



## 17545

5


----------



## 17545

5


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Are you trying to justify a gang beat...?


Look who's twisting words now... tutt.


----------



## jeremy

Tigersuit I apologise if anything I have said angers you. I'll leave you to your devices now.


----------



## 17545

u


----------



## Rozanne

How can you ask people to treat your humanity with respect when you disrespect everyone else's?

You should get your priorities right.

I mean, the only reason this thread has gone to 20 pages is because you are being a git.


----------



## 17545

k.


----------



## Guest

Here you go guys download this.
Should help  









Greg


----------



## 17545

.


----------



## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a joke.
> I've honestly never met a more closed minded piece of shit.
> Go to hell you asshole.
> 
> Drinking at a flower* BAR does not justify 5 guys kicking the shit out of you.
> 
> 
> 
> WHO SAID IT DOES!? I am talking about knocking the beer away, not 5 guys kicking shit... You keep saying I am soo0o0o0 closed minded just because I don't agree with drug use!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sigh. Not only do you not believe in drug use, you look down upon people who do drugs.
> 
> You think it's bullshit that someone could become a better person from taking a psychedelic. On what base do you hold this argument? Because you've never done it yourself? Give me a break.
Click to expand...

Sorry one last thing. Tigersuit I take Bach Flower remedies. Some people think they are an absolute load of shit too. I think they help me and others. I dont go around telling them they are assholes though.


----------



## 17545

[.


----------



## Rozanne

edit


----------



## 17545

s.


----------



## 17545

.


----------



## 17545

[qu


----------



## jeremy

Tigersuit said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [One] said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tigersuit said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are a joke.
> I've honestly never met a more closed minded piece of shit.
> Go to hell you asshole.
> 
> Drinking at a flower* BAR does not justify 5 guys kicking the shit out of you.
> 
> 
> 
> WHO SAID IT DOES!? I am talking about knocking the beer away, not 5 guys kicking shit... You keep saying I am soo0o0o0 closed minded just because I don't agree with drug use!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sigh. Not only do you not believe in drug use, you look down upon people who do drugs.
> 
> You think it's bullshit that someone could become a better person from taking a psychedelic. On what base do you hold this argument? Because you've never done it yourself? Give me a break.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Sorry one last thing. Tigersuit I take Bach Flower remedies. Some people think they are an absolute load of shit too. I think they help me and others. I dont go around telling them they are assholes though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess you do have a good point. I'm just starting to lose my cool a little. Sorry.
Click to expand...

No worries man


----------



## Rozanne

Thing is Tiger - (your real name?) - I think that it is you who feels you are being looked down on. If you weren't bothered by that, you wouldn't be lashing out at everyone in the vicinity who has a different view-point on drugs to you.

People should have the right to question drug use when it is happening in their own back yard. Your choices effect other people. Peeps have been arguing with you to defend those people who might come along and start taking drugs because you keep saying it is such a good idea.

If i were you...take drugs....or don't take drugs...admit that it isn't the best thing to do....and stop telling people it is great.

You are in denial over the damage it does to you and other people around you. --- No matter how they feel, drugs are bad. It's a fact. Look at the people who wind up in rehab, or on the streets, out of jobs, in prostitution, mental hospitals....you just can't deny that drugs have grave dangers as well as an "up side".


----------



## Guest

Who are you guys trying to convince, yourselves or each other?

Greg


----------



## Rozanne

Myself partly because I am considering going the the open all hours to get a packet of ****!


----------



## Guest

Nice one :lol:


----------



## jeremy

Miss_Darling said:


> Peeps have been arguing with you to defend those people who might come along and start taking drugs because you keep saying it is such a good idea.


I think this is a very valid point.


----------



## 17545

5


----------



## Pablo

Do lots of drugs end up like Pete Doherty:










Not a good look...... But in the other hand he does have Kate Moss for his girlfriend, hmmm maybe I should go out and try to score some class A's


----------



## Guest




----------



## 17545

Haha. That made me smile.


----------



## none

//


----------



## Rozanne

edit


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## Guest

[one] Posted


>


You have to love the irony of that post LOL :lol:


----------



## ?real?ity?

[One] said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNJ9eSqVhKk


yeah, drugs can be bad. no one isn't saying that dude. that hasn't been an arguement of anyone the whole time. fortunately, trpytamine psychedelics wont fry your brain, and you'll not generally become addicted to them.


----------



## ?real?ity?

[One] said:


> Pablo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do lots of drugs end up like Pete Doherty:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a good look...... But in the other hand he does have Kate Moss for his girlfriend, hmmm maybe I should go out and try to score some class A's
> 
> 
> 
> This is a good example of just how great drugs are.
Click to expand...

obviously, dohrty did heroin, ecstasy and crack.

what's your opinion on drugs like adderall and ssris, or benzos


----------



## CECIL

Looks like he's having a great time


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> Well then you might as well just break a stick because thats pretty much the value right there.


 Back in my alcoholic day's if anyone ever knocked a beer out of my hand on purpose they would more then likely be getting beer glass picked out of their face at the ER. You shouldnt try that stuff on drunk's because they are the most unpredictable and violent bunch of drug users for sure.


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> Straight Edge people are known to knock things out of your hands, it is only in your best interest though.


 I was once known for knocking peoples heads against my fist or boot but does that make that right either? Granted on a straightedger it might be a right thing to do to knock some sense into them before they did that to the wrong person and got themselves killed for it.

I have no problem with straight edge people just the ones that push their beliefs down everyones throat. As ive said before less drug users = more drug's for me .


----------



## Ludovico

If a straightedger ever knocked a beer out of my hands, they would be eating their meals through a straw for the next 6 weeks.


----------



## 17545

[


----------



## none

//


----------



## none

//


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> If I went edge myself


LOL.... ROFLOL.... GOod one!... lol


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## Rozanne

What does ROF stand for?

Ranting on forever...


----------



## Guest

Miss_Starling said:


> What does ROF stand for?
> 
> Ranting on forever...


hah; "Ranting on forever"... I like it =P

It means "Rolling on floor".


----------



## Rozanne

...I gathered

Right on form!


----------



## ?real?ity?

broflmao


----------



## Rozanne

What?
Bluhsflufmous? Hahah.
You've gotta explain that.


----------



## comfortably numb

I think ive got a good idea of how to end this long and bitter thread. Why dont we all agree that ONE know's nothing about what he's talking about, that he can't see from the point of view of other people at all, can't get past the fact that LSD does not kill brain cell's and that he know's nothing about LSD or psychedelics in general, and that he refuses to even acknowledge the fact that some illegal drug's may have had a benefit on some peoples lives in atleast some point in history.

We should also agree that he has the right to be ignorant and closed minded because it's free speech even if it is bullshit. But we also have the right to totally ignore him and consider it an effort in futility to engage him in conversaion.


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## invisible.ink

Wow, this thread has been pretty heated. :shock: 
Anyway, I'll just put in my 2 cents.
I've done my share of drugs though I'm completely clean now aside from scripts and cigarettes.
I used to love getting high. I smoked 3 or 4 times a day. My parents smoke, my friends smoke, my whole damn family smokes. I think that's fine. The reason I stopped was because I became pregnant.
I don't think there is anything wrong with drug usage until it begins to affect innocent people. I smoked weed and I loved to smoke weed but I realized that I should not force that on my then unborn child who had no choice in the matter.
The way I see it: Do all the drugs you want and hell, have fun with it! But if it starts having a negative affect on those around you (emotionally or health-wise) then it is not a good thing and only then is it something worthy of being looked down upon. It is a *personal* choice and if it leads you to hurt (directly or indirectly) other people who do not have a say in the matter, then it is a bad choice to continue.
I'll give you an example of this:
One night a few of my friends and I decided to get drunk at her house and my son was with me...he was maybe 9 months old at the time. I hadn't had a drink since long before was born so I got pretty f*cked up. I remember lying on the couch hardly able to move and having an intense panic attack and he was crying for me. I think he sensed my distress and got scared. Since that night, I will never drink again. I still feel over-whelming guilt for not being to care for him in my intoxicated state and I never want to hurt him like that again. 
It's one thing to hurt yourself (not saying drugs will always hurt you)...but another to hurt someone you love.


----------



## closetome

do you need to murder someone to not agree with that?


----------



## 17545

5


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> You don't make sense. Why don't you just stop posting if you can't comprehend anything I say. I don't need to know ANYTHING about LSD and psychedelics to know that I don't agree with using them.


 I make perfect sense i was just voicing my opinion that you dont have a clue about what you talk about. Your right in the fact that YOU dont need to know anything about psychedelics to know that they are not for YOU.

The problem is that you can't grasp the concept that many other people like using these drug's and could have possibly benefited from them. That's what makes you sound ignorant and intolerant of other peoples view's.


----------



## jeremy

I think the only way this thread will stop is if it is deleted.


----------



## Pollyanna 3098

"Most experts agree that MDMA decreases brain levels of serotonin in animals, and damages the branches through which serotonin-producing neurons reach out and connect to other cells7. It is difficult to determine whether the same changes happen in the brains of human MDMA users. But Ricaurte's group has used various indirect methods to find evidence that suggests they do, including measurements of a breakdown product of serotonin in cerebrospinal fluid8. Using a radioactive chemical that binds to serotonin receptors, the researchers have also shown from positron emission tomography brain scans that MDMA users have fewer receptors for the neurotransmitter9. "The bottom line is that over 15 years worth of research by us and others has clearly demonstrated that MDMA is toxic to brain serotonin neurons"

thought you may be interested

3098


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## comfortably numb

Tigersuit said:



> Yeah, MDMA is risky. There's always a huge crash afterwards too; A crash that doesn't happen with shrooms and LSD.


 MDMA is more risky then the tryptamine psychedelics like shrooms and LSD for sure but i doubt occasional use would cause any significant damage to your serotonin receptor's. And the jury is still out really on how much damage MDMA actually does or if it's permanent or what.

LSD and psilocybin (shroom's) act on serotonin in a different way then MDMA. They are partial 5-ht2a receptor agonist's and dont cause any crash on the come down.


----------



## Pollyanna 3098

I think I am out of my depth on this one guys, I don't know enough about it to carry on with the debate, so I will leave this one alone.

3098


----------



## Rozanne

I think it's really funny how this thread is called "I'm an addict" and it has run to 25 pages in the space of a few days! Not that I am criticising, it's just worthy as a piece of modern art.


----------



## ?real?ity?

honestly, the crash from ecstasy would make me feel suicidal. the high isn't worth the after effects. it's your life. playing with your brain chemistry is like playing with fire. not saying that playing with fire can't be done safely.


----------



## jeremy

Cloverstone said:


> jeremy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think the only way this thread will stop is if it is deleted.
> 
> 
> 
> Other than some rude posts, for the most part this thread has remained on topic and is DP/DR related for many. Obviously there are some very strong, differing opinions but some members want to hash it out and be heard...so why stop them?
Click to expand...

Not at all, just making an observation that was interesting to me.


----------



## closetome

An eighteen year old girl just died after taking e for the first time in England....


----------



## Guest

closetome said:


> An eighteen year old girl just died after taking e for the first time in England....


Gamble.


----------



## Pollyanna 3098

> An eighteen year old girl just died after taking e for the first time in England


Its a tragedy, that's what it is.

3098


----------



## Guest

Pollyanna 3098 said:


> An eighteen year old girl just died after taking e for the first time in England
> 
> 
> 
> Its a tragedy, that's what it is.
> 
> 3098
Click to expand...

Another number added to the statistics.


----------



## Pollyanna 3098

It makes a mockery of this thread.

3098


----------



## closetome

someones gona come along right now and say" well it's only like 1 in a million that die"....etc etc :shock:


----------



## 17545

1


----------



## Pablo

closetome said:


> An eighteen year old girl just died after taking e for the first time in England....


They are not sure yet what killed the girl, they think drugs are a cause but the tests havent come back yet so the police have "an open mind" about the cause. The headlines say ecstasy but the reports say they dont know.

In fact most deaths down to ecstasy are due to either heatstroke or due to drinking too much water so they actually fill their lungs full of water and drown (Hyponatremia) very few deaths down the years are caused by the actual drug directly.


----------



## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> In fact, more people in the UK die from choking on peanuts than from taking ecstasy."


lol; OWNED.


----------



## comfortably numb

closetome said:


> An eighteen year old girl just died after taking e for the first time in England....


 It's a gamble you take when taking street drug's. Also the ecstasy sold on the street is often not pure MDMA and in some cases it contain's no MDMA at all. Alot of E pill's have methamphetamine, dxm or if your really unlucky PMA in them. PMA is a drug that is responsible for alot of death's among ecstasy user's because it's as about as toxic and dangerous a drug as you can get.

A standard dose of ecstasy would not kill a person unless they got hyperthermia by being in a overheated enviornment, dancing to long or not drinking enough water. That is usually how people die from pure MDMA.

I would think that the cause of death is either a bad pill or hyperthermia. It's very rare to actually overdose on MDMA.


----------



## none

//


----------



## closetome

hahahaha


----------



## 17545

1


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> The irony of the website title.... "The Good Drugs Guide"
> 
> Of course thats where you will get all your information because it is obviously a biased website.


 It's actually pretty unbiased most of the info is true. They tell the good with the bad. If you look on the front page you will see that it doesent exactly give glowing report's on drug's such as amphetamines and cocaine or even most anti-depressant's.

I think some of the info on there about anti-depressant's is abit off the mark though. The website seem's to come down rather harsh on tricyclic anti-depressant's even though they are good anti-depressant's. They are atleast as good as ssri's in treating major depresssion and might actually be better.

Believe it or not ONE there are actually good drug's inspite of what websites such as freevibe tell you. Now that's a website you should look up if your ever bored and need a good laugh. It's run by the white house and is completly full of shit. 99% of the info on there is total lies. I enjoy reading the stuff on there when im high because it always makes me laugh. You would have to be pretty dense not to see through lies that are just so blatant.

I actually sent them a email saying that alot of the so called fact's on the website had no scientific basis to back them up. To my suprise they responded to my email and they basically said that although we respect your view's we cannot promote the use of dangerous drug's. I was gonna write a return email saying that you would be much better off stating fact's rather then just fear mongering propaganda but it's a total waste of time.


----------



## ?real?ity?

[One] said:


> The irony of the website title.... "The Good Drugs Guide"
> 
> Of course thats where you will get all your information because it is obviously a biased website.


One... would you rather a drug site, talk about the drug from a totally, stretched, one sided view. Or would you rather it approach it from a true scientific approach?

If the human race, and the societies in it, looks at things from a one sided view, and hides true knowledge from a society. Especially when it's the government doing it. Then that just makes you think... who can you trust?


----------



## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> Heroin and cocaine are at the top of most dangerous drugs. Ecstacy, marijuana and lsd are toward the bottom.


 Ya here's a link to a study done in britain i got it off ctv http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... hub=Health .


----------



## ?real?ity?

Ludovico said:


> Plan B said:
> 
> 
> 
> You have to be an idiot to use drugs.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, brilliant argument. I think you've converted me. :roll:
> 
> I dont feel like psychedelics have ever put me in a 'rabbit hole' as I have never used them often. I've only taken psilocybin 4 times and only 2 of those were strong trips. I've only had E twice and it's not psychedelic.
Click to expand...

i could definately argue about e being psychedelic, but of course, you never know what is in an e pill


----------



## jeremy

I was looking at the vids on ogrish and found this interesting one. check out the massive line one bloke does and the poor chap whos overdosed on the step.


----------



## ?real?ity?

[One] said:


> Yeah thats where I got it, it was on the news today. How bizarre!


because it's legal?


----------



## 17545

1


----------



## none

//


----------



## 17545

1


----------



## Guest

> I watched the whole thing. She seems fine...


Yeah right.LOL









Greg


----------



## Guest

So are we gonna make page 50?


----------



## closetome

I refuse to watch videos like that. I think they're disgusting. It's like the ones of people fighting. urgh


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## Guest

Hey, Im not saying it was bad, Im just pointing out that she looked anything but fine.









greg


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## Guest

Well, she planed it out, had someone with her, she didnt drive, so yeah, I guess that's fine if she was happy.

greg


----------



## ?real?ity?

leaf wont make you trip. :lol:


----------



## closetome

what kind of fucking urgh fool would film themselves doing that neway.......shakes head...at the end of the day

if you like drugs than that cocaine party would be a dream but if you have had a bad experience than it looks like a nightmare

I would rather hang out with a pig than with that girl seriously


----------



## ?real?ity?

meh :?


----------



## Guest

> I would rather hang out with a pig than with that girl seriously


That's a bit harsh, but we are all entitled to our opinion.

Greg


----------



## closetome

I'd probably learn a lot more


----------



## 17545

1


----------



## Crystal

Would you rather be right or have piece of mind?


----------



## comfortably numb

Salvia now that's one i gotta try it look's very interesting. It's a rather unique psychedelic totally unlike tryptamines or phenethyamines. It's actually a kappa receptor agonist which would technically make it an opiate. But unlike mu agonist opiates such as morphine, heroin, oxycodone, etc it isint addictive, actually lowers tolerance to traditional opiates, and you cant overdose on it.

It might prove to have medical uses in the future because it lowers opiate tolerance and may have anti-depressant properties.

As for the coke video what does it show? i dont have high speed internet so i cant watch it. Ive known people to have tonic clonic seizures after having too much coke especially if they inject the stuff. It's a scary sight indeed.


----------



## Guest

comfortably numb... you have a poor IQ dude *nods* =P. How do you know so much? *bows down to wise man*... heh


----------



## ?real?ity?

comfortably numb, it does work on the same parts of the brain as opiates. it does not produce opiate like effects what so ever! do not try it, unless you like being smeared across the infinite with that cool little green plant in your living room now satan laughing at your very existence. and unless you have derealization, i'm gonna have to take a pot shot and guess that it's not gonna be your thing :shock:

edit: oh yeah, not to mention the body high from it is anything but opiate like, i felt like i was being electrocuted


----------



## 17545

1


----------



## 17545

4


----------



## comfortably numb

?real?ity? said:


> comfortably numb, it does work on the same parts of the brain as opiates. it does not produce opiate like effects what so ever! do not try it, unless you like being smeared across the infinite with that cool little green plant in your living room now satan laughing at your very existence. and unless you have derealization, i'm gonna have to take a pot shot and guess that it's not gonna be your thing :shock:
> 
> edit: oh yeah, not to mention the body high from it is anything but opiate like, i felt like i was being electrocuted


 I know it's not like opiates at all. Traditional opiates work on the mu receptor not the kappa receptor. Although there are a few that are mixed mu antagonists and kappa agonists. If i wanted a opiate high id go take the various ones that i get prescribed. In fact im on one as im writing this.

I like psychedelics and the weirder the better. Ive read some of the trip reports on salvia and they sound very weird and cool.

I would have a trip sitter though just incase i tried to do anything out of hand. Plus with salvia the trip is so short so even if you have a bad one it will be over rather fast.


----------



## comfortably numb

Tigersuit said:


> It's a bunch of gang members lining up to snort insane amounts of coke off a plate. One guy snorts a line about a foot long, and 3cm wide.


 That coke is either cut to shit or it's just fake. A foot long line of coke that's 3cm's wide would kill just about anyone. Ive met some real heavy coke users in my life but nobody i know could do that much at once without flopping around on the ground like a goddamn fish afterwards. Or just dropping dead.



> If you think he's wrong, why don't you prove it?


 I think he was just being sarcastic or something. It's hard to tell with him sometimes.


----------



## ?real?ity?

comfortably numb said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> 
> comfortably numb, it does work on the same parts of the brain as opiates. it does not produce opiate like effects what so ever! do not try it, unless you like being smeared across the infinite with that cool little green plant in your living room now satan laughing at your very existence. and unless you have derealization, i'm gonna have to take a pot shot and guess that it's not gonna be your thing :shock:
> 
> edit: oh yeah, not to mention the body high from it is anything but opiate like, i felt like i was being electrocuted
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's not like opiates at all. Traditional opiates work on the mu receptor not the kappa receptor. Although there are a few that are mixed mu antagonists and kappa agonists. If i wanted a opiate high id go take the various ones that i get prescribed. In fact im on one as im writing this.
> 
> I like psychedelics and the weirder the better. Ive read some of the trip reports on salvia and they sound very weird and cool.
> 
> I would have a trip sitter though just incase i tried to do anything out of hand. Plus with salvia the trip is so short so even if you have a bad one it will be over rather fast.
Click to expand...

i use to have this same mind set, but i found in the end all that weirdness doesn't show you anything. sure, you can change your preceptions of your senses. but fuck, i can do that with derealization. sure, it's interesting to experience here and there. but if you experience it alot. you realise you're not going anywhere with it. it wont show you anything different than you just feeling "weird".

it is short in effects yes. but this could be considered a bad thing in it's own ways. since it's smoked. the effects hit STRONG and hit FAST. if you already have problems with derealization, i'd highly advise against this drug. not saying you can't go out and smoke it. but i'm just trying to help you. cause i did the same thing, i kept doing it, and it didn't get me anywhere except more fucked in the head.


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## jeremy

Yeah the guy thats overdosed looks in real bad shape. We cant actually see what happens to the guy after doing that massive line either. It is some footage of PCC in Brasil, I would imagine they would get better quality coke than most western countries. Leaks pretty authentic to me.


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## comfortably numb

?real?ity? said:


> i use to have this same mind set, but i found in the end all that weirdness doesn't show you anything. sure, you can change your preceptions of your senses. but flower*, i can do that with derealization. sure, it's interesting to experience here and there. but if you experience it alot. you realise you're not going anywhere with it. it wont show you anything different than you just feeling "weird".
> 
> it is short in effects yes. but this could be considered a bad thing in it's own ways. since it's smoked. the effects hit STRONG and hit FAST. if you already have problems with derealization, i'd highly advise against this drug. not saying you can't go out and smoke it. but i'm just trying to help you. cause i did the same thing, i kept doing it, and it didn't get me anywhere except more flower* in the head.


 Well i dont have derealization anymore so i dont think that would be a problem. Ive been dp/dr free for about a year.

Ive never had a problem with any other psychedelic or dissociative so i doubt id have a problem with that. Dxm is no doubt a lot harder on the old noggin then salvia ever could be.


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## ?real?ity?

comfortably numb said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> 
> i use to have this same mind set, but i found in the end all that weirdness doesn't show you anything. sure, you can change your preceptions of your senses. but flower*, i can do that with derealization. sure, it's interesting to experience here and there. but if you experience it alot. you realise you're not going anywhere with it. it wont show you anything different than you just feeling "weird".
> 
> it is short in effects yes. but this could be considered a bad thing in it's own ways. since it's smoked. the effects hit STRONG and hit FAST. if you already have problems with derealization, i'd highly advise against this drug. not saying you can't go out and smoke it. but i'm just trying to help you. cause i did the same thing, i kept doing it, and it didn't get me anywhere except more flower* in the head.
> 
> 
> 
> Well i dont have derealization anymore so i dont think that would be a problem. Ive been dp/dr free for about a year.
> 
> Ive never had a problem with any other psychedelic or dissociative so i doubt id have a problem with that. Dxm is no doubt a lot harder on the old noggin then salvia ever could be.
Click to expand...

no dude. i'm telling you. salvia is the most mind fucking psychedelic out there. it's considered an atypical psychedelic not because of it's course of action, but because it'd odd, bizare, and not usually looked for in psychedelic use because it doesn't offer much "insights"

oh and salvia is also considered a dissociative, if you don't believe me look it up. it's 20x times more psychedelic than dxm could ever be with it's dissociative properties

go look up salvia on wikipedia or something i'm sure it'll say something about it there

i'm saying this out of experience with it man, not just reading experiences, and especially if you've had problems with derealization in the past i'm just saying be warned


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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> Darren said:
> 
> 
> 
> comfortably numb... you have a poor IQ dude *nods* =P. How do you know so much? *bows down to wise man*... heh
> 
> 
> 
> If you think he's wrong, why don't you prove it?
Click to expand...

Us Brits use something called ?sarcasm? although I used it not to criticize comfortably numb but to ?big him up? *nods* =D


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## Guest

Tigersuit said:


> comfortably numb said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for the coke video what does it show? i dont have high speed internet so i cant watch it. Ive known people to have tonic clonic seizures after having too much coke especially if they inject the stuff. It's a scary sight indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a bunch of gang members lining up to snort insane amounts of coke off a plate. One guy snorts a line about a foot long, and 3cm wide.
Click to expand...

Would he be classed has having a high IQ?


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## ?real?ity?

cocaine..... is a helluva drug


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## Guest

?real?ity? said:


> cocaine..... is a helluva drug


It's crap... I get offered it for free yet i reject the offer ever time... It was might to be for "birth days & xmas"... yet it's on offer most of the time now :roll:


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## ?real?ity?

Darren said:


> ?real?ity? said:
> 
> 
> 
> cocaine..... is a helluva drug
> 
> 
> 
> It's crap... I get offered it for free yet i reject the offer ever time... It was might to be for "birth days & xmas"... yet it's on offer most of the time now :roll:
Click to expand...

haha it was a joke, from a show in the us called the dave chapelle show.

yeah coke sucks, the high is worse than the comedown and makes people assholes. get that.


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## comfortably numb

?real?ity? said:


> no dude. i'm telling you. salvia is the most mind flower* psychedelic out there. it's considered an atypical psychedelic not because of it's course of action, but because it'd odd, bizare, and not usually looked for in psychedelic use because it doesn't offer much "insights"
> 
> oh and salvia is also considered a dissociative, if you don't believe me look it up. it's 20x times more psychedelic than dxm could ever be with it's dissociative properties
> 
> go look up salvia on wikipedia or something i'm sure it'll say something about it there
> 
> i'm saying this out of experience with it man, not just reading experiences, and especially if you've had problems with derealization in the past i'm just saying be warned


 I looked it up on erowid and other sites and i pretty well know what it does in the brain and it's effect's. It might have dissociative type action's but it's not a dissociative because it has no action on the NMDA receptor like true dissociatives do.

I know it's a mind fukk and that's exactly the reason why i want to try it. But most people say that DMT is more of a mind fukk then salvia is ever try that one? It's a tryptamine like LSD or psilocybin but many times stronger and much more intense.

Both salvia and DMT are at the top of my list of drug's to try in the future.



> cocaine..... is a helluva drug


 Coke is a crap drug is there ever was one. It barely even get's you high. All it does is boost your ego and shrink your wallet. It's ok with abit of morphine or another opiate which is a speedball as they call it (don't do this it is VERY dangerous) but other then that you would get a better high from a cup of coffee.


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## ?real?ity?

No, I have not experimented with dimethlytryptamine. I do know it's chemically simliar to the active ingredient in psilocybin mushrooms.

DMT is theorized so I hear to be released when in rem sleep and is what causes us to dream, and is also released in large amounts in near death experiences.

the differences between dmt and salvia, so as I hear is that DMT is more of a spiritual quest than salvia, while salvia has it's extreme ups and downs and more likely hood of a bad trip. of course i'm just going off word on that, not the salvia but the dmt. but i do know reality tearing up like scissors cutting through paper isn't fun especially when you got derealization already. a bad trip on salvia isn't like a bad trip on acid or mushrooms. it's totally and utterly convincing, infact if you were to smoke to much in one setting, you'll forget your just high. and you enter the "no exit" i could go on about that one but it's not pleasant ;p


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## comfortably numb

It's freaky that DMT is already in your body i think most of it is located in the spinal fluid actually. Maybe that is what is responsible for the near death experiences that people talk about?

Ive heard that salvia rip's reality to shreds and that is actually why i want to do it. Im a thrill seaker by nature and this is more then likely why it appeals to me.

Im the kinda guy that likes driving a motorbike at 100 clicks an hour in the rain or that get's into a fight with the biggest guy in the bar just to see if i can beat him. So im abit of an adrenaline addict no doubt about it.


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## closetome

sounds scary, what about pcp? that sounds scary too, i thought of trying opium but i'm thinking not now. Bob dylan once recomended it...


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## Jack30

It's almost like I want to get through to just *one* of you drug users...somehow make you understand that the day will come when everything unravels, and there will be nothing you can do about it. Nevermind your job or self-sufficiency or marriage. Just your mind. You'll want it back so desperately.


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## Guest

Tis WIki time! = http://en.wikipedia.org


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## Guest

Wiki wiki! page 50 is close!


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## Pancthulhu

Does anyone know whether laughing gas can make DP/anxiety worse? I know it's supposed to be a dissociative but I've never seen any of my friends sketch out on it before.



> Ive heard that salvia rip's reality to shreds and that is actually why i want to do it. Im a thrill seaker by nature and this is more then likely why it appeals to me.


I've only ever spoken to one person who's actually had a good experience on Salvia, although some of my friends who've had nasty experiences on it tried it again. Apparently most people who trip on it forget that they've taken it.



> It's freaky that DMT is already in your body i think most of it is located in the spinal fluid actually. Maybe that is what is responsible for the near death experiences that people talk about?


Yeah, quite possibly. If the DMT stored in your pineal gland is released when you die it would make for some pretty weird last moments.


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## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> Because there is more control over prescriptions than illegal drugs.. and illegal drugs can be more harmful..


 Since when is salvia illegal? Also most plants containing DMT are also legal.

I have other ambitions besides these ONE dont worry your little head about that. But most of the other ones involve travel, sex and various form's of transportation. I want to experience alot before i kick off and i have no intensions of leading a boring normal existence.



> Does anyone know whether laughing gas can make DP/anxiety worse? I know it's supposed to be a dissociative but I've never seen any of my friends sketch out on it before.


 It is a dissociative but it's a mild one. It could cause an increase in anxiety or dp/dr but this is unlikely. Ive had some wild hallucinations on nitrous but ive never freaked out on it or had anxiety on it. In fact it's probley my favorite drug.

Saying that i do know one person who had a major freakout in the dentists office after getting laughing gas. He was a kid and had never experienced any drug's before so that may have played a part in it. He started hallucinating like crazy and just freaked right out. I think the dentist may have given him too much for his body weight but the freakout may have happened anyway.


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## comfortably numb

Tigersuit is it really worth the time and energy to argue with the likes of an ignorant twat such as ONE? There's no changing his view on things so why bother just let him wallow in stupidity.

I feel guilty everytime i respond to any of his posts because he is basically nothing more then a troll and as we all know it's not nice to feed the troll's.


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## Ludovico

Then just let him get his last post in and let this thread die in peace. He's an immature, ignorant puppet who is not going to shut up until he feels that he has won.

Just let him have it


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## Guest

*Afroman - Because I Got High*






:mrgreen:


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## none

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## Guest

c'mon guys... stating [One] as a troll is "bang out"... you've only proven he has kicked your asses (sorry if your female [one], I would have said "she's" if i knew you were female... but i don't... so i've assumed your male .. like cos you're acting like one and all... and good on ya... male power!)


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## comfortably numb

[One] said:


> YEA! You got me, I'm a troll. I discovered DP and DR JUST so I could come to this forum and argue with people about drugs.
> 
> I don't think I have done anything out of hand to deserve to be called immature and ignorant. But since my opinion is different than yours, of course you would say that.


 Ya i was more then abit harsh in saying your a troll ill admit that. That was a heat of the moment thing. But i still think your abit judgemental and you look down on some people here. So what if i want to try DMT or salvia and has that as a list of drug's i want to try. Just because you dont agree with drug's doesent mean that they will ruin my life or that i should be judged for it.

Everybody's gotta get their kick's somewhere. I wouldnt look down on whatever you like to do for fun i just didnt like your comment because it came off as abit know it all. Not that i dont sound that way from time to time.

But whatever we will just have to agree that we have different opinions on the matter and thats that. But we can still have a reasonable discussion on it all the same.


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## closetome

What abut PCP and crystal meth. They're absolute fuckers no?


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## comfortably numb

closetome said:


> What abut PCP and crystal meth. They're absolute flower* no?


 Ive never heard anything good said about either of these drug's they are both very dangerous.

Meth is in my opinion the worst drug out there not heroin as some people would suggest. A heroin addict who doesent catch a disease or overdose will probley live out the rest of their normal lives because it causes no brain or organ damage. A meth addict on the otherhand would be lucky to last 5 years. Ive seen lot's of peoples lives and brain's go down the gutter due to that crap. It's one drug id swore id never do. Even meth addicts have told me not to touch the crap.

So ya stay the hell away from both of those.


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## none

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