# Everyone is saying just accept it, what does that mean?



## Optimist (May 29, 2012)

Hello friends 

I hope everyone is doing well.

If you go through any recovery story "including mine', you will eventually realize that they are basically the same. They all say that you only have to accept the condition and distract yourself for long enough until it is gone. In fact, you would find the same advice if you read recovery stories even for other disorders, such as OCD or panic/anxiety disorders. Once you get down to the details of each story, you would find some minor differences. One guy accepted his condition by exercising daily, another person made use of supplements or SSRI medications to help him accept and stay calm. It does not matter, these are only tools that help you reach deep and genuine acceptance.

You may ask: "what does that even mean, I know how to accept something, and I have been accepting it for a long time but it never worked. Your case must be different than mine" .. I know exactly what you mean, for I have been there, and I have said exactly the same thing over and over. Hear me out:

You would be reading in some site this story of how this dude suffered in a very similar way to you, but he managed to recover in 2 years by accepting it ! Then you read another story of someone who recovered after 20+ years also following basically the same way ! What's going on? Why did it take 2 years for the first person? and why did the second person take more than 20 years even though he seemed like he tried harder than the first guy?

The answer: The first person managed to reach this so called "deep and genuine acceptance" faster. Why is that? Mindset. It does not matter how long you have been suffering and enduring. 3 months or 50 years, the odds of recovery are the same. The behaviour that is causing DP to linger is the same. It is only that the guy with 50 years repeated his behaviour for a much longer period of time. It does not matter if you were driving at 100 miles per hour for 2 minutes or for 5 hours, the car stops once you hit the break. It does not matter if you are smoking for 2 years or for 35 years. They both can quit.

Now, to the main question, what do you mean by deep and genuine acceptance? The most difficult and misleading part. I will help you by listing some questions, if you answer even to one of them with a yes, then you have not reached that level of acceptance yet:


Do you wish you never had DP or anxiety in your life?
Do you hate how DP feels?
Do you evaluate your DP on a daily basis? Do you rate them from 1 to 10?
Do you imagine your life after DP? Do you imagine your life WITHOUT DP?
Does DP somehow limit your activities? I mean, did you stop doing things or practice activities because you think DP would make it more difficult?
Do you think your life is not normal?
Do you think you are not living a normal life? Do you think other "normal" people are happier than you?
Did you alter your dreams or life goals because of DP? Or did you put them on hold for until DP is gone?
Do you think you are unlucky because you happened to live with DP?
Do you label yourself with this "DP disorder"? Do you classify general population as either normal or DP'ed?

I can go on and on. However, I am sure as hell that you have answered yes to all of them. If you did not answer them all with a yes, then what are you doing on this site? Do we see "normal" people coming around and posting their opinion of DP? Why was it you that came here and not the guy living next door? Well, because you answered "yes" to the questions above, but the guy next door would answer them all with a no. That's the difference.

let me repeat this: until the day you answer all of those questions with a yes, you have NOT accepted your DP deeply and genuinely. You only convinced yourself that you have. You still need some time. You have to feel *indifferent* towards the whole thing. But you don't seem like you are, because you are taking the time to read this site. Something must be bothering you !

One more thing, don't get caught up with the details of other stories. It doesn't matter if one guy used Yoga, while the other guy took SSRI medication or quit caffeine. The root cause is acceptance (and distraction). Details are changeable in a way that fits your lifestyle. Do it your way. Follow what works for you personally.

I suffered with DP for more than a year, the first week was more or less similar to my last. Sure, there are ups and downs. But my point is that don't convince yourself that since you have been suffering for X number of years, then magically you are excluded from recovering this way. It is only that you are still not there yet in terms of mindset. You will get there nonetheless I am sure.

Feel free to read my recovery thread, and I will do my best to answer questions.

Remember: It is all about the right mindset.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2016)

How do I accept the condition and distract myself when I have no control over how my brain is perceiving reality? What if I shined a flash light in your eyes all day then said "Accept it and just distract yourself". You wouldn't be able to. You can't control something that is happening too you.

I really believe there are different levels of depersonalization/derealization, but that time is the only real cure. And then we look back and convince ourselves that certain things we did helped us recover, when really we have no understanding of this condition or why it went away.


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## Optimist (May 29, 2012)

First of all, your perception of reality is fine. It just does not FEEL fine. There is a big difference between the two. Your perception of reality is as normal as anybody else on the street. Otherwise, you wouldn't realize that there is something wrong with how it feels. You would not be here having such a rational conversation. You sound and talk just fine. People who are having problems with their perception of reality can't do that. If you are tested by any psychaitrist, he would never find anything wrong with your perception of reality. Actually, no one you meet in your life would ever notice anything different about you. It is only in your head. Now, if it does not feel right, then no worries since feelings come and go. They were never permenant.

If someone shined a flash light in my eyes, it would hurt at first. Eventually, I would get used to it. It may be hard, no doubt. However, my body will adjust. Our bodies adjust to any change. If someone beats me repeatedly in my back, my nerves would start to numb and I would not feel pain after a while.

Let me say one thing, and I believe it is very important. Believing that others have an "easier" type of DP is common. I myself have lived it and believed it. It is a stage that most those who recovered passed through. Nonetheless, we did not recover until we got past that stage. Since that stage can work against your recovery. Believe me, I used to say exactly like what you are saying right now. I am a person who googles almost anything I think of. Once DP started, I immediately started reading about it. I actually found many recovery stories on day one, and they all said the same thing: accept and distract. You know what, it did not work. I tried that in my first week of suffering. It did not work. I was hopeless and I thought my type was the kind that does not go away just like that. However, it took me a year to reach that mindset I was referring to. Now, here I am. I am Happier than ever before. Had I not reached that mindset, I would be now posting in this forum how I had been suffering for 4 years and accepting never works. I was lucky I guess.

Thinking logically is key. We should not conclude emotionally in our case. We should not go with what we feel. That will keep us trapped. Your feelings are lying to you right now. Reach some logical conclusion and stick to it no matter how bad and miserable it feels. At that point, don't involve your emotions in the decision making, at least for things related to DP. It is as though you are swimming against a mount of waves inside of your head. Good luck. I know how tough that was. It is all bright and shiny after that wave, luckily.

Sincerely,


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## Marinkawr (Jul 21, 2016)

I have it over a year and trying hard to change my mindset, but please explain how could you stop thinking that you are miserable in this condition and that you would love it to go away, how can you lie to yourself that you don't want it to go away? It's like if my leg would be chopped and i would be thinking "oh that's fine that i'm in pain and i will be with one leg till the end of my life", it's natural to have regrets and pain and sorrow about it, i know that it suppose to work the way you say, i have a friend of mine who overcame it exactly by being indifferent, but maybe you can explain how to come to this mindset, at the moment i'm only living my normal life through this condition, but it doesn't make it better, i'm sad that i'm having it and can't fight it and obviously regretting, please think how to explain more accurately how to change this mindset, i'm not against people's words and experiences, i'm not getting mad that if u could and i don't then you are saying stupid things. I just want to make myself not to want it to go away and so on. And how were your mornings and reconnection with reality every day? Same indifferent? I'm suffering every morning. How long did it take you to recover since changing your mindset?


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2016)

Thanks for the post!


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

It doesn't make any sense though.

'Acceptance' isn't a cure - how can it be? You aren't 'doing' anything..

On top of that, as the poster above said - it's not controllable, it's in your brain and whether OR NOT you accept it, it will remain there.

Until recently i'd taken a break from this forum, i lost interest in it totally, i can barely muster the energy to post, and alot of times I almost forgot I had DP, but it was still there... whenever i checked i realised i felt totally foreign.

I dont see how this is a viable cure at all tbh. You are basically saying: lie down and take it, let it fuck your life over and just accept it. No thanks.


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## Optimist (May 29, 2012)

Midnight said:


> It doesn't make any sense though.
> 
> 'Acceptance' isn't a cure - how can it be? You aren't 'doing' anything..
> 
> ...


'Acceptance' cured me and thousands of other DP and anxiety sufferers. Even though I don't like to use the word cure, as it could be confusing and misleading.

Let me first start replying by pointing out why your recovery has halted. You said you almost forgot about DP, great, that is progress right there. Then why would you check on yourself ? You are inviting the feelings back yourself. Not only that, checking up on yourself means you still have not accepted DP in the first place.

this particular phase took the longest in my recovery. It is the phase when I am completely normal all day except during the times when I would be evaluating how I am feeling, or how real the world seems. Of course, your brain is not 100% recovered yet, so it immediately gets the DP feelings again. Do not give up or get discouraged. It requires patience and persistence. Again, this phase took the longest. After you go for a while longer without doing that, you suddenly realize that you recovered. You just know that as much as you know your own name. You then would be checking on yourself, and everything is fine then.

I disagree with you. It is absolutely controllable, as I have managed to control it. Do you know when it becomes uncontrollable? when you give it significance in your life. It then would be controlling you. Take that significance away and it will shrink to the size of a fly. You can then easily crush it.

Clearly, you have not taken the significance away yet. You were even checking up on yourself and how you were feeling. It is still centered in your life.

I have an idea, get back to that state when you almost forgot about DP, when you stopped coming here or reading anything about DP. If you manage to NOT check up on yourself for a few weeks and if DP is still there, let me know.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2016)

I like what you said about reality feeling different as opposed to it actually being different. I never thought about it that way.

Although it's difficult to see it that way in the moment.u

And 'checking on yourself' is a huge issues for me. I'm constantly looking around to see if the DP is still there. I write in a journal everyday and make a little note at the bottom: How bad was DP today on scale of 1-10. I'm constantly checking in to see if it's gone.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

In my opinion it's difficult to disentangle correlation and causation here. How do people know if acceptance made their DPD go away, or their declining DPD made them more able to accept it or both are unrelated? Recall bias might be a significant factor here.

It also doesn't take into account the influence of symptom intensity. It's clear that more distressing symptoms are more difficult or impossible to accept, because they make it impossible to live a normal life or just distract oneself from them. This could suggest that the people who were successful in "accepting away" their symptoms, started with a lower symptom intensity, which could make it more likely that they go away.



> 'Acceptance' cured me and thousands of other DP and anxiety sufferers.


Looks like confirmations bias.


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Optimist said:


> 'Acceptance' cured me and thousands of other DP and anxiety sufferers.
> 
> Let me first start replying by pointing out why your recovery has halted. You said you almost forgot about DP, great, that is progress right there. Then why would you check on yourself ? You are inviting the feelings back yourself. Not only that, checking up on yourself means you still have not accepted DP in the first place.
> 
> ...


I'll accept your challenge.

*Problem is - it IS significant.* If DP wasn't significant (in impairing memory, perception, behaviour and other factors) then it would be easy to ignore..... wouldn't it?

.....


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## Billy D.P. (Apr 12, 2016)

People in the "acceptance" camp seem to be the most fervent in their beliefs regarding how to cope with this condition, even though it's well documented there is no cure or even a specific treatment for DP. And yet it seems these type of posts instructing people to accept this terrorizing life state are never ending. I feel these types of orders are what give mental illness the stigma it's had for so long and are exactly what's keeping this disorder from being studied and funded and researched so that one day we might actually have a better understanding of what's really going on inside our heads and in turn actually have an effective treatment plan that would ensure faster recovery.

Saying the key to resolving a neurological/mental disorder is "acceptance" is quite frankly insulting. Do you say this to people with bipolar disorder? How about the schizophrenic? What about those suffering from depression or anxiety? If not, then why do you say this to us? It's this type of thinking that perpetuates the incredibly erroneous and long-held belief that mental illness is not an improperly functioning brain but rather a character defect, lack of will, and so on down the line. I guess if I were only a stronger individual I'd be able to "see the light" and magically change my entire brain chemistry by simply wishing it away.

On the other hand, there's what's referred to as "science." It's quite an amazing concept really. It says the way to understanding the world is not through voodoo, egotism and wishful thinking, but rather through vigorous observation, trail and error, mathematics, facts and proven results. This latter concept is what's going to actually help people with this disorder and I'd suggest that rather than telling people the only wall between a broken brain and perfect health is "acceptance" we instead target our energy at health professionals, scientists, professors, neurologists, etc., so that we can get some actual help in trying to crack this incredibly complex problem we all suffer with every day.

"Acceptance" is no cure. It is no treatment. It is not even a reputable strategy in dealing with DP. Acceptance is nothing but a stop on the road towards recovery. It is a stop more towards the end than the beginning and because of this people associate it with playing a crucial role in whatever it was that happened to turn the tide in their favor. This is exactly why acceptance always occurs in the latter half of all these stories. Nobody who ever attempts to accept DP in the first month then just so happens to spontaneously recover. You can only accept something once all the other preceding "stages of grief" -- denial, anger, bargaining, depression, etc. -- play out first.

Additionally, it's worth noting that it is an actual proven fact (that pesky science again!) that people with neurodegeneration suffer from an inability to identify just how distant they are from true health. It's sorta like being drunk in that because your senses are impaired so too is your ability to identify just how drunk you really are. Given what we know about this condition I don't think it's too far fetched to say that there's a possibility of neurodegeneration in DP, and if that's the case this would likely explain the "acceptance" theory, falsely believing it was their personal decision that kicked their recovery into high gear when in fact it was nothing more than a series of neurons inside their brain that, due to a healing timeframe in connection with external circumstances, led to an enlightened state of mind.


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## Optimist (May 29, 2012)

TDX said:


> In my opinion it's difficult to disentangle correlation and causation here. How do people know if acceptance made their DPD go away, or their declining DPD made them more able to accept it or both are unrelated? Recall bias might be a significant factor here.
> 
> It also doesn't take into account the influence of symptom intensity. It's clear that more distressing symptoms are more difficult or impossible to accept, because they make it impossible to live a normal life or just distract oneself from them. This could suggest that the people who were successful in "accepting away" their symptoms, started with a lower symptom intensity, which could make it more likely that they go away.
> 
> Looks like confirmations bias.


I like how you brought up the correlation vs causation argument, it's interesting indeed.

I would answer it from my own experience. If I drew a curve of my level of DP intensity vs time, it would be very clear that DP level decreased after I changed my overall attitude and mindset towards DP and mental disorders overall. I am pretty sure that acceptance came first. DP disappeared afterwards. Was it a coincidence that DP only disappeared once I managed to learn how stop checking on myself?

Let me give another analogy.

Let's say you are keeping a million dollar check in your right pocket, and you are keeping 10 dollars in your left pocket. Let's also say that you are walking in a street that has a bad reputation for getting pickpocketed. Now, which pocket would you be checking more? the right or the left? Why did you say the right pocket? Because you think losing the million dollar check is more significant. Therefore, you couldn't stop checking on it every now and then.

Let's say now that you realized that the million dollar check you have is fake. You would definitely stop checking on it while walking down that street, why is that? Well, it has lost its significance.

In this example, let's find the causation and correlation here. Did the guy stop checking on his pocket because he found out that the check is fake (causation)? Or was it that he stopped checking on his right pocket due to something else, and the fact that he realized the check was fake had nothing to do with it?

I hope I didn't lose you here 



Midnight said:


> I'll accept your challenge.
> 
> *Problem is - it IS significant.* If DP wasn't significant (in impairing memory, perception, behaviour and other factors) then it would be easy to ignore..... wouldn't it?
> 
> .....


Hmm, what makes anything significant in your life? Can anything lose its significance at some point? Or is the significance for anything is constant throughout your life? Let me know what you think of the analogy above.



Billy D.P. said:


> People in the "acceptance" camp seem to be the most fervent in their beliefs regarding how to cope with this condition, even though it's well documented there is no cure or even a specific treatment for DP. And yet it seems these type of posts instructing people to accept this terrorizing life state are never ending. I feel these types of orders are what give mental illness the stigma it's had for so long and are exactly what's keeping this disorder from being studied and funded and researched so that one day we might actually have a better understanding of what's really going on inside our heads and in turn actually have an effective treatment plan that would ensure faster recovery.
> 
> Saying the key to resolving a neurological/mental disorder is "acceptance" is quite frankly insulting. Do you say this to people with bipolar disorder? How about the schizophrenic? What about those suffering from depression or anxiety? If not, then why do you say this to us? It's this type of thinking that perpetuates the incredibly erroneous and long-held belief that mental illness is not an improperly functioning brain but rather a character defect, lack of will, and so on down the line. I guess if I were only a stronger individual I'd be able to "see the light" and magically change my entire brain chemistry by simply wishing it away.
> 
> ...


First of all, allow me to say this, DP or anxiety disorder are NOT neurological disorders as you say. Nowhere were they classified as that. Get me one scientific paper or document that says so. They are mental disorders, and that is different. If you want to speak about science, I would be happy to.

Science is my field after all, and I believe in science and experiments more than anything else. If you want our discussion from here onwards to be solely scientific , then I would be glad to do that. Do you know what I did in my first week of DP? I ran to a psychiatrist, and he diagnosed me with anxiety disorder. He also gave me Citalopram, an SSRI. I took that for six months without getting great results. I stopped taking it afterwards. As I said, Since I like to read a lot about the scientific side of anything, I read all the research that says SSRI are as effective as placebo pills. I was obssessed with reading anything DP-related. I spent hours everyday only reading and learning. My best friend was "google books", where i can get more academic materials. Yet, SSRI remain the most viable option we have today. I read conflicts between medical doctors who do not agree that levels of neurotransmitter are the cause of mental disorders. What is going on? They are absolutely involved in the process, but they are not proven to be the cause. (again, causation vs correlation). That was prior to 2010. After that, all new research in neuro-science is pointing to a new direction, a new concept was introduced: neuroplasticity.

You said you wish if you can change your brain chemistry so that this goes away. Man, recent science has PROVEN that our brains change their structures with positive thinking (or negative). reputable universities such as Harvard and Stanford are agreeing on this now. Our brain chemistry is altered by your thoughts. unfortunately, I used to keep a list of all research that proves how your thinking habits affect the chemistry of your brain, but that was back in 2012/2013 and I seem to have lost that list. Read about neuroplasticity. You seem to be holding onto the old belief that brains are hard-wired. New research is confirming that to be FALSE. It is confirmed that brains can re-wire themselves as we go through new experiences. Neural pathways are constantly changing and reshaping your brain. Positive thoughts and "acceptance" in our case affect and alter your brain physically. If you would like to discuss this in more detail, I am glad to do that.

If you would like, I would get you a list of well-know researchers who have managed to conclude that. Just give me some time. I do not mean that everyone can simply press a button to change the way they think and get good results. I wish it was that simple. Just like how we all are different phyisologically at everything. Let's say two guys start working out on the same day while eating exactly the same diet. Three years from that day, one guy would still be more mascular than the other, because he has got the tendency to be more mascular. The same thing applies here, we have different tendencies to respond to anxiety or DP, but we manage to improve at different rates nonetheless.

About schizophrenia, why would you compare our case to that? schizophreina is medically known as brain disorder where sufferers display pschosis. That's totally different and not related to our case. I would never say just accept schizophreina and it would go away. However, I would definetly do that for DP, anxiety, and OCD. Recent and emerging medicine is starting to support that more than the "hard-wired brain" old theory. That is also evident by the huge number of those who managed to recover from this by simply changing their thinking/response pattern: The "acceptance" method that seems to be very infamous for some at this site.

In fact, I see you kinda agreeing with me. You said our recovery is merely a series of neurons inside our brains that led to enlightened state of mind. Great, why did those neurons behave the way they did? what caused that? Based on new research evidance, why can't you say that those neurons took that new nerual pathway that was created by my new pattern of thinking, and this new pattern of thinking got shaped by me accepting the condition and not trying to fight it?

One more thing: I used the word cure only because the member Midnight used it, so I basically got along with his statement. I have always preferred not to use the word cure, as it could be misleading and confusing.

I would like to apologize if I sounded "instructing" as you put it. I would reconsider my way of conveying my message if it will help some of you here. I wonder how such posts add to the stigma of mental disorders as you say, I fail to see the connection.

You say acceptance is not a reputable treatment for DP or anxiety? What about cognitive therapy? aren't they simply teaching how to accept it and not let it control you? They are the most common way of treating anxiety disorders today. The essence of cognitive therapy is also acceptance.


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## Billy D.P. (Apr 12, 2016)

Optimist said:


> I like how you brought up the correlation vs causation argument, it's interesting indeed.
> 
> I would answer it from my own experience. If I drew a curve of my level of DP intensity vs time, it would be very clear that DP level decreased after I changed my overall attitude and mindset towards DP and mental disorders overall. I am pretty sure that acceptance came first. DP disappeared afterwards. Was it a coincidence that DP only disappeared once I managed to learn how stop checking on myself?
> 
> ...


All mental disorders are neurological disorders and all neurological disorders are mental disorders. Sure, some neurological disorders don't affect mood as much as the mental disorders in the DSM, but in essence it's all the same: brain disease. We can argue semantics till the cows come home but that would get us nowhere.

You say science is your wheelhouse? Then I'm sure you're familiar with research that's now pointing towards specific areas of the brain that might be malfunctioning in schizophrenia, anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc. This is no different that the areas of the brain that affect those with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. While neurotransmitters might be the culprit in some conditions, neurodegeneration in others, the point is that there is clearly some level of imbalance and chaos occurring in all sufferers of brain disease and to arbitrarily isolate a certain group you deem as not as severe and tell them the key to banishing the pain they've endured for years is simply "acceptance" is, again, insulting at the highest level and in no way grounded with any sort of scientific backing whatsoever. Sure, acceptance and positive thinking can help people cope with these conditions, but to insist "acceptance" is all that's needed to reverse years and even decades of billions upon billions of neuron-to-neuron connections is nothing more than Internet quackery. You can chose to "wish away" poverty, climate change and all forms of injustice in the world through positive thinking if you'd like, but I much prefer actually doing something about these sorts of problems rather than closing my eyes and waiting for them to get better.

"About schizophrenia, why would you compare our case to that? schizophreina is medically known as brain disorder where sufferers display pschosis. That's totally different and not related to our case. I would never say just accept schizophreina and it would go away. However, I would definetly do that for DP, anxiety, and OCD."

This sentence says it all. If you really think "acceptance" will make anxiety and OCD spontaneously go into remission then we're just never going to see eye to eye on this issue. My father has had OCD for 63 years of his life. He accepted it long ago and yet at 63 he's still organizing his sock drawer based on color, size, height, etc. Would you mind telling me what he's doing wrong and has done wrong for 63 years of his life? Perhaps he hasn't accepted the right form of acceptance? Or is his acceptance not as thorough as yours? Being OCD I would assume he'd be one of the more effective persons when it comes to acceptance given he's likely done it a million times over throughout his lifetime...

It's unfortunate that you are here trying to help and that I am here trying to help and yet we are arguing. I hope to not argue like this in the future, however I do think what I've said needs saying. We're not going to make any real headway with this condition by insisting the Holy Grail of DP is acceptance, making those who try to accept their condition and still see no improvements feel even worse about their situation. If acceptance helped you, I'm happy for you. Therapy has helped some. Dieting has helped others. Some people have discovered underlying endocrine malfunction as their culprit. The point is everyone is different and what works for some definitely does not work for others. Similar to religion, forcing your beliefs on others is no way to spread the gospel. Believe what you want, say what you want, but whatever you do please refrain from forcibly trying to convert others to your belief system without their consent.


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## TDX (Jul 12, 2014)

> All mental disorders are neurological disorders and all neurological disorders are mental disorders.


The last is false, because not all neurological disorders affect the brain. Take for example periphial neuropathy.

But apart from that I agree to most of your points. You cannot "accept away" most metal disorders, much in the same way like you cannot make medical diseases go away, by accepting them.


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## Guest (Aug 10, 2016)

Optimist people get butt hurt when you say acceptance here it's like the doomed word! Acceptance is key although I didn't read your entire post I grasped acceptance and the many butt hurt replies ( probably going to get beaten down for saying that too) but point is what works if not acceptance there is no cure so instead of drowning in sorrow accept the now but never stop trying things out if you think it might help double standards you might say but let's be real we all want to get better. You can accept and stay healthy at the same time. I don't want to say don't grieve on dpselfhelp because that once in a while will keep you afloat. Peace and love


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## Optimist (May 29, 2012)

Billy D.P. said:


> All mental disorders are neurological disorders and all neurological disorders are mental disorders. Sure, some neurological disorders don't affect mood as much as the mental disorders in the DSM, but in essence it's all the same: brain disease. We can argue semantics till the cows come home but that would get us nowhere.
> 
> You say science is your wheelhouse? Then I'm sure you're familiar with research that's now pointing towards specific areas of the brain that might be malfunctioning in schizophrenia, anxiety, bipolar disorder, etc. This is no different that the areas of the brain that affect those with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc. While neurotransmitters might be the culprit in some conditions, neurodegeneration in others, the point is that there is clearly some level of imbalance and chaos occurring in all sufferers of brain disease and to arbitrarily isolate a certain group you deem as not as severe and tell them the key to banishing the pain they've endured for years is simply "acceptance" is, again, insulting at the highest level and in no way grounded with any sort of scientific backing whatsoever. Sure, acceptance and positive thinking can help people cope with these conditions, but to insist "acceptance" is all that's needed to reverse years and even decades of billions upon billions of neuron-to-neuron connections is nothing more than Internet quackery. You can chose to "wish away" poverty, climate change and all forms of injustice in the world through positive thinking if you'd like, but I much prefer actually doing something about these sorts of problems rather than closing my eyes and waiting for them to get better.
> 
> ...


By referring to WHO (World Health Organization) Definitions and lists, mental disorders are completely different than neurological disorders. Neurological disorders are concenred with physical diseases with the brain and nervous systems, and they are treated by neurologiststs. Mental disorders are concenred with abnormalities in feeling, thought, or behaviour. Sure, there are some illnesses that fall in the grey area between them, such as autisim. That, however, does not mean we should club them as one. The medical society still draws lines between the two. There have been scientific studies to merge those two, and I saw a couple of them. The conclusion that I read was that it is better they are kept seperate, as MRI imaging has shown that they indeed are distinct from one another in the way they affect your brain. Maybe in the future and with further discoveries they will be merged into one classification, who knows.

I never said anything about schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder. Recent research of schizophrenia is pointing towards a direction that it indeed is affecting the brain physically, just like Alzheimer's disease or bipolar disorder. Growing evidance is suggesting that those who suffer from schizophreina and bipolar have brains that are structurely different in some areas than normal people.

However, that was never said about anxiety/panic disorders. The brain of those who suffer anxiety is structuerly the same as normal people. Sure, they have seen some changes in some areas, like in amygdala, but that is not a structural difference at all. Amygdala is the part of the brain that is responsible for the fear response. It is found to be more active in anxiety disorder sufferers. Here comes the debate among researchers, was this overactivity in this part the cause of anxiety? Or was it merely a result of the anxious thoughts of those people? (cause vs effect). Even if you take normal people and you expose them to stress, their amygdala would be more active as well. Since anxiety sufferers are basically always under stress, amygdala is then always active. Unlike schizophrenia and bipolar disorders, anxiety research has not found a solid evidance that proves exaclty and clearly the biological cause of this disorder. There will be subtle differences in the brain, that's for sure. Those changes could be merely a result of their mental habits, or they could be the cause of the disorder. that is not finalized yet. If you link this with the new neuroplasticity theory, then those subtle changes can be reversed. This cannot be said about schizophreina or biploar, as those brains are on a completely different level in the neurological scale. For that reason, the "acceptance and never fighting back" method works with anxiey and panic disorders, but will not work with other pure neurological disorders (like Alzheimer) or partial neurological (like autism and schizophrenia).

You said:" But to insist that "acceptance" is all that is needed to reverse years and even decades of billions upon billions of neuron-to-neuron connections is nothing more than Internet quackery"

No, that is internet quackery. This is proven science now. As I said, neuroplasticity new theories suggest exactly that. I sgguest reading a bit about that.

I am starting to believe that we have not agreed on the term 'acceptance' and what I mean by that. I don't mean just say " alright I accept you" and keep living teh same way. I mean complete overhauling of the way you percieve and think about DP. Complete and utter overhauling. Your new view of DP should not give DP a single drop of importance, fear, or attention. Positive or negative. I seem to have failed to covey what I would like to say. As I see some members saying that acceptance does not work, yet it is very clear to me from what they write that they have not accepted yet. They seem to be stuck in the same loop that I was stuck at back then. They seem to dwell on it and resist every second of DP feelings. Deep down, they still view it as a threat to them. They even dedicate a part of their day to go to internet forums and discuss it on a daily basis. What does that tell you about such a mindset? A mindset that has accepted DP? really?

Well I am sorry about your father. I would speak about it in general and I would not direct this to your father's case. The number of years does not mean much. Those who recovered after 20 years said in their recovery post the same thing what the guy who recovered in 4 months has said. How long it takes to break a habit is irrelevent here. Well, you said your father accepted, please elaborate more what do you mean by his acceptance before I can comment on that.

You said that acceptance helped me, therapy helped some, and dieting helped others. here, I can get that I failed to convey my message by what acceptance means. Those who found therapy and dieting to be helpful must also have accepted their condition.

Here's my opinion: Those who posted that diet change helped them , it is because a better diet made them more relaxed, less agitated, and overall in a better state of mind. ( a better diet does that). Having this combo makes accepting DP a LOT easier, which eventually got them rid of it. In my opinoin, diet was merely a tool to make accepting DP a lot easier, it was not what got them rid of DP by itself. The same thing goes for therapy. I repeat, this is only my take on this. I have gone through the first three pages in the Recovery Stories section. In all stories that I read, I saw the OP clearly refers to acceptence, indirectly refers to acceptence, or refers to other tools that eventually helped him accept it whether knowingly or unknowingly. You may disagree with me on this.

At the end, I am not trying to force this on anyone. I do not mean to sound instructing or anything of that sort. Perhaps I got carried away while explaining, and I apologize for that. If you think I am not making sense, please ignore everything I said. I am sure that many will find relief by reading what I writing here, just like I would have done if I were in their shoes.


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## Marinkawr (Jul 21, 2016)

Thank you for your posts Optimist and do not dissappear please. Can you just explain me is coming to this mindset is some kind of mind training, or you just felt the relief straight away when you realized that it's all fake and not dangerous?


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## Midnight (Jul 16, 2011)

Optimist said:


> I am starting to believe that we have not agreed on the term 'acceptance' and what I mean by that. I don't mean just say " alright I accept you" and keep living teh same way. I mean complete overhauling of the way you percieve and think about DP. Complete and utter overhauling. Y*our new view of DP should not give DP a single drop of importance, fear, or attention. Positive or negative.* I seem to have failed to covey what I would like to say. As I see some members saying that acceptance does not work, yet it is very clear to me from what they write that they have not accepted yet. They seem to be stuck in the same loop that I was stuck at back then. They seem to dwell on it and resist every second of DP feelings. Deep down, they still view it as a threat to them. They even dedicate a part of their day to go to internet forums and discuss it on a daily basis. What does that tell you about such a mindset? A mindset that has accepted DP? really?


See, now THAT I understand - THAT is interesting. You've just put it in a way I understand now.

I think the problem is the word 'acceptance' is really not applicable here. You are referring to 'starving' DP of attention entirely, not 'accepting' it as far as I can tell. Those are two entirely different things.


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## Optimist (May 29, 2012)

Marinkawr said:


> Thank you for your posts Optimist and do not dissappear please. Can you just explain me is coming to this mindset is some kind of mind training, or you just felt the relief straight away when you realized that it's all fake and not dangerous?


Helloe there,

No, I did not feel the relief straight away just like that. Thankfully, we live in a time where information is easily shared and medical research has advanced. When my anxiety and DP started, I started to read like crazy. It all pointed that I am not going crazy, and it is also not dangerous or harmful in any way. All what I read assured me that My brain is fine, and those are simply our bodies responding to anxiety/stress in a certain way, and unfortunately I did not respond well to those changes. Speaking logically, I understood this from the first few days.

However, our darn emotions make it difficult to simply turn those ideas and thoughts into reality. You read those recovery stories, and they set fire inside of you. You may feel better a little bit. But your emotions take you back a few steps. It is like you are swimming towards the shore, and once your approach land a huge wave takes you back. If you give up, you will drown. If you keep swimming, you will eventually get to land. It may take long or it may not, that should not matter to you.

To answer your question: Reaching this mindset took time and practice. You have to learn new habits of thinking and forget your older thinking patters that got you in this state in the first place. When first DP hit me, I knew this was the right way, actually I was very convinced that it will work. I had no doubts as it made total sense. I would apply it say for a few hours before my anxiety gets the best of me and I start checking on myself to find out that DP is still with me somehow. Hope shatters for the next few hours. Then, I get up and try to simply not give DP any attention positive or negative. The cycles continued like that for months.

It took me a long time. Please, don't be discouraged by that. It was not just like: " aha, this makes sense, I will try it" and then DP was gone. No, it needed patience.

There is one thing I would like to point out, do not assign emotions to DP at all. Positive or negative. I mean, if you manage to go 3 days without DP, don't be happy. Do you know why? If you become overly excited that DP was gone for a while, it means you will also feel sad if DP hits you, and then you are back to square one. Also, feeling happy for not having DP means you still give DP some attention. Why would you feel happy about something that you should not care about? It means you still have not accepted it.

One more habit that would be useful to learn is to stop seeking reassurances. Stop seeking answers to clam your brain You probably know the answers already, but you feel like you really NEED to hear them again. Thing is, when you answer those questions, you basically are giving anxiety what it needs to control you even more. This fuels the whole cycle even more. It takes time, but learn not to reassure yourself for any change in how your feel, and definitely learn how to not check on yourself every now and then.



Midnight said:


> See, now THAT I understand - THAT is interesting. You've just put it in a way I understand now.
> I think the problem is the word 'acceptance' is really not applicable here. You are referring to 'starving' DP of attention entirely, not 'accepting' it as far as I can tell. Those are two entirely different things.


I am glad that I have conveyed what I've been trying to say. I aplogized if I confused you with that word, I don't know it just felt like the right word when I started writing


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## Alex617 (Sep 23, 2015)

Billy D.P. said:


> *People in the "acceptance" camp seem to be the most fervent in their beliefs regarding how to cope with this condition, even though it's well documented there is no cure or even a specific treatment for DP*. And yet it seems these type of posts instructing people to accept this terrorizing life state are never ending. I feel these types of orders are what give mental illness the stigma it's had for so long and are exactly what's keeping this disorder from being studied and funded and researched so that one day we might actually have a better understanding of what's really going on inside our heads and in turn actually have an effective treatment plan that would ensure faster recovery.
> 
> Saying the key to resolving a neurological/mental disorder is "acceptance" is quite frankly insulting. Do you say this to people with bipolar disorder? How about the schizophrenic? What about those suffering from depression or anxiety? If not, then why do you say this to us? It's this type of thinking that perpetuates the incredibly erroneous and long-held belief that mental illness is not an improperly functioning brain but rather a character defect, lack of will, and so on down the line. I guess if I were only a stronger individual I'd be able to "see the light" and magically change my entire brain chemistry by simply wishing it away.
> 
> ...


Because we know for a fact that acceptance is an important part of recovery. You have a completely wrong understanding of what acceptance means. I'm sure you heard of the quote:

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

Bad things happen, that's life, whether you get cancer, get hit by lightning or get a mental illness. By accepting your situation, surrendering entirely to your circumstances, you can begin making actual progress to recovery. No one says acceptance means you don't work on the condition, people with cancer who accept their reality have a better chance of seeing solutions than those who are too busy being filled with despair and regret.

Here's another example, did you know that one day you will die? Everyone knows, but imagine you being unable to accept this, your entire life would be wasted focusing on the inevitable. It would fly by and you would gain nothing from it.

Accepting dp/dr means that you stop blaming yourself, looking for reasons why you got it and open room for something good to actually happen. Stephen Fry, a celebrity who deals with bipolar disorder said something along these lines, that we keep trying to justify mental illness, find an explanation for it, instead of just accepting that it's a thing that can happen to anyone. When you listen to survivors of major depression they all have a variation of the same advice, you accept that you have this condition and you continue living your life.

So no, it doesn't mean you trivialize it, or give up, it means you stop with the 'woe is me' attitude, start accepting that you have to deal with this and take the appropriate steps while not letting the illness define every aspect of your being.


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## Marinkawr (Jul 21, 2016)

Thank you for your reply, did you come to the point when you completely stopped thinking or notice it? I find it the hardest part, cause it seems u just can't stop noticing it, cause my mind is apart from my body where my identity is just lost, when the medication brought all parts of my body back, but i still feel strange so it's hard to ignore it, i can live my life normally, but i can't ignore that i'm having this thing. I don't know how to behave. And sometimes i'm very suicidal


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2016)

A lot of people will tell you just to accept it and move on as the only cure, while i agree with that to some point, its very hard to feel like you dont exist in your own skin. The long and short of it is yes, some have to accept it and just deal with it because it will be their for life, but that is in no means the case for all!


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## EmmaBo (Aug 31, 2016)

Thank you so much to Optimist. This is by far the wisest and most helpful recovery story I have ever read. I am full of optimism.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2016)

Acceptance is the final step in recovery, and I've never understood that more than I have in the last week or so. The reason that DP controls us and we are unable to forget about it is because we still don't accept that this IS our lives. We want to believe that we will wake up one day and it will "just" be gone. And who wouldn't want to believe that? Yes, everyone's DP is different, for some acceptance is infeasible or impossible. Being told to accept something that you're so terrified of and you want so badly to go away is almost like being insulted. It's like being told you are a lesser person, and there's nothing you can do about it. Just accept your shitty life, you piece of shit. But that's the thing. Before you can accept DPDR and thus move on from it, you have to accept that acceptance is the only way. You have to accept that you have to accept that acceptance is the only way. And why is that? Because we're so afraid of acceptance. We're so afraid that it will never get better, and by doing so we're only feeding into our anxiety and insecurity. You HAVE to accept that it MIGHT never get better, BEFORE it can truly go away. It doesn't mean that you give up hope, it means that you accept your reality for what it is and do your very best to live your life to the fullest in spite of it.

There is no full recovery from anxiety, and thus full recovery from DPDR is a difficult task. It's like one of those functions in math class, where the closer you get to the limit, the slower the rate of change becomes. At some point, you have to accept 99% and be HAPPY with it. Don't EXPECT anything more. This is your life, this is all of our lives, and we have to accept that we can't control every facet of them. Letting go is about giving up, giving in, and moving on. As others have said, things like living a healthy lifestyle, getting on meds and going to therapy can propel you towards acceptance. But without accepting imperfection, we can never attain what we crave so much.

The first step in acceptance is recognizing that DPDR is not a threat to you. From there, you give up trying to control it, always asking yourself about it, and questioning whether or not you have it. Clearly this is easier said than done. But I've made such huge strides in the last week that I now realize the only thing standing in the way of my recovery is myself. I'm realizing that recovery is simultaneously much simpler and much more complicated than I thought it was. I'm realizing that it could be much further away than I wanted it to be. But in doing so, I'm accepting that it won't just disappear into thin air one morning. Once you reach 80-90%, you have to accept that it very well could never get better. Only then will WE control IT, rather than it controlling US.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2016)

I'm on medication. I'm in therapy. I've done everything I'm supposed too. I've accepted DP. And still it remains. Acceptance is bullshit.


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## AniLisi (Nov 2, 2015)

Thank you for this lovely post, you have described the process of acceptance so clearly and i can relate to it. For the other posters who do not feel this to be a method that works i can also totally understand why you feel this way. Those of us who have found recovery had to get there through a difficult time and realisation which can only come in your owntime. It does sound so "simplistic" and in honesty every individual has differing circumstances which may or may not work for them. The reality of this condition is there is no pill or easy answer but a combination of what works for each of us,whether its medications or therapy etc.

I wont sit and lecture anyone to accept anything if they arent ready in their own journey to do so. One of the reasons i came back here was to offer insight to my personal journey of recovery. In fact one of the self help guides i have read even states not to dwell on forums about the condition and to live your life as normal. I truly wish everyone all the best and believe that you can rid yourself of this fog from your lives whenever that will happen will happen.

Take care


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