# Solipsism



## lostintheworld (Jun 6, 2008)

Hello, I searched the boards and didnt find much on solipsism, Do any of you feel this way? I have had Panic disorder for most of my adult life. I have always felt detached and unable to feel like a "normal" human being. But it wasnt uintill recently when I just stumbled upon Solipsism, that I felt like my world got turned upside down, I have constant thoughts of dying, convinced myself I have stomache cancer, I question reality to the point I feel like I may have already died and this is part of the proccess. I watched a movie called Numb last night simply because it looked interesting, and as soon as I realized what it was about, I was floored! I felt like I was watching myself on tv, and I couldnt believe that others felt the same way. That is how I came to find this website. 
I guess what I am asking is did something trigger your DP or was it always there just not as overbearing?


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## flat (Jun 18, 2006)

definitely triggered


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## AllmindnoBrain (Jun 28, 2007)

It was always there


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

*Just to clarify as I understand this, this word "solipsism" is a philosophical term, not a psychological or psychiatric term though lay persons confuse it with psychology. Philosophers have debated the nature of the mind, Self, existence for centuries. But they are talking in terms of theory, not mental illness.

This is very misleading. You have to sort out the terminology. If you talk to a psychiatrist or a neurologist and say "I'm solopsistic, I don't think they would know what the heck you're talking about. You will only confuse yourself by looking into this term.*

But I know what it feels like to "feel I am the only thought in existence" -- it's horrible, and yet I know it is medical/neurological. It is so hideous it couldn't be anything else.

And I am not philosophizing, I am experiencing a severe perceptual distortion. Philosophers can discussing this and have no clue what DP/DR is.

I'll plug this into PubMed and see what I get.
But for instance the word depersonalization has two meanings:

1. It means DP, our symptom of feeling unreal, etc.
2. Say when someone on a nursing staff at a giant hospital feels unrecognized, underpaid, just a cog in a big machine we are talking about a social problem, not psychological.



> *Gorgias
> Solipsism is first recorded with the Greek presocratic sophist, Gorgias (c. 483?375 BC) who is quoted by the Roman skeptic Sextus Empiricus as having stated:
> Nothing exists;
> Even if something exists, nothing can be known about it; and
> ...


D


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

I plugged it into PubMed (billions of journal articles) and came up with 7 articles vaguely referring to it. Only one had the word solipsism in it. Googling it, you get it defined as philosophical not psychiatric in nature. It is a religious debate as well.


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

Sorry, I should answer the question. I can't remember when I didn't experience this episodically, however it became chronic say from age 9-15? I have had pure reality, and then pure DP, but it is now chronic.

I think you're describing anxiety and hypochondriasis as well. My theory still stands (for me and many others, though I can't speak for each person) that this is an extension of anxiety. The fight/flight response.

I was always an overly introspective child though. So the thinking ... perhaps that came first. I really don't know. I don't remember much (and children usually don't) before age 4.


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## Rozanne (Feb 24, 2006)

to overcome solipsism i try to think thoughts like.

1) this person is a spiritual being having a human experience.
2) they are just as attached to their life/happiness as I am to mine


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2008)

Dreamer* said:


> I don't remember much (and children usually don't) before age 4.


Its strange when I hear people say that ,because I can remember everything from the age of 2 yrs onwards.I often wonder if this is because I was in a hightened state of anxiety as a child which made me over aware.I remember feeling "strange" or things looking odd from ages 3-5 yrs but as a child I couldnt articulate it or know for sure that it wasnt normal.I remember my uncle pushing me in my pushchair and I kept asking him "Are you still there?" every 10 seconds because I felt like the only person in existence and very very alone and insecure.
I remember lots of violent rows between my parents,I remember a large trifle dish smashing against the wall above my head.I even remember the day I went of the bottle[milk],i remember picking it up and finding it discusting I was around age 2.I remember playing out in the garden by myself alot......I remember being put over my teachers knee as she pulled all my things down and spanked me repeatedly in front of the whole pre school class.......and much much more.
Strange.

Spirit.


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## Ryan (Oct 20, 2007)

Solipsism is equivalent to narcissism. Look it up!


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Ryan said:


> Solipsism is equivalent to narcissism. Look it up!


I'm not quite sure why you seem to be attacking me, but I can't hear the tone of your voice in a post.

I do a lot of research on the topics of psychology and neurology. These words have very specific meanings and are used in various contexts.

*Solipsism is not a diagnosis, it is not used in discussing psychiatric or neurological disorders -- it is not mentioned in psychiatric literature save occasionally as a metaphor. It is not mentioned in the DSM-IV or the ICD-10. It is a philosophical concept. Narcissism is similar, however it can be a lay term, a mythological story used as a metaphor for certain behavior, or their indeed exists Narcissistic Personality Disorder and/or narcissistic tendencies in various individuals.*

DP and DR in and of themselves are SYMPTOMS. The symptoms themselves could be caused by any number of things.

My theory on our preoccupation with Self is based on the fact that we have some "malfunction" in the way our brain processes our concept of Self. If that isn't working we tend to become too self-observant, but not as philosophers but in a pathological way that is taking away our quality of life.

*Solipsism is not an illness. It is a debate about the nature of the brain, consciousness, awareness and reality. As I have said, this philosophical debate can be and is had by individuals who DO NOT have Derealization or Depersoanlization. The most famous phrase re: this philosophy is "Cogito ergo sum," -- "I think, therefore I am." The debate about that one continues to this day in philosophy and in medicine. But they are two separate debates.*

I become frustrated with self-diagnoses here (many people seem to do this) and misuse of terms that do have value in the diagnostic process. It is like saying that schizophrenia is "split-personality." That is a lay misconception. There is no longer a term "split-personality" or "multiple personality. Current diagnostic procedures now refer to that same syndrome as Dissociative Identity Disorder. Many individuals believed to have "multiple personalities" are now believed to be Borderline Personality Disorder, and that may ultimately renamed "mood dysregulation disorder" -- somewhere perhaps on the spectrum of bipolar disorder.

If you walked into a doctor's office and said you are "solipsistic", I have no clue what they would say. I will try an experiment. In about 2 months I have a new psychiatric resident. I only see residents at my local Uni as it's less expensive (for meds, a bit of talking, but no formal therapy.) I will ask my new resident his/her (I haven't been assigned yet) knowledge of solipsism as a medical/psychiatric term.

*I am mainly concerned with self-diagnosis. I have a dim view of many psychiatrists, a better view of neurologists, however to find proper diagnosis and treatment is the key to feeling better. I would never have known what was wrong with me if a doctor had told me the I had "solipsism". And there is no treatment for solipsism. DP/DR are known now as Dissociative Disorders and there is research into them which can lead to helping people. When he said my symptoms were anxiety, depression and that "weird" feeling is called depersonalization, and I subsequently looked up THAT word in a psychiatric textbook -- I finally knew what was wrong with me. I read one tiny case study in my mother's psychiatric text. In those days, one tiny paragraph in a book 1,000 or more pages long. Back in 1975

We've come a long way since then in brain research. I don't want to think of going backwards.*

Also, if you read about anxiety disorders, other mental illnesses, brain tumors, stroke, epilepsy and migraine you will find said individuals also experience DP/DR (but not always), and many such people are not narcissists, they don't have NPD, and are not pondering the nature of their existence. Individuals who use drugs such as salvia, ketamine, etc. have these thoughts, and sometimes they are frightening, and sometimes they are not.

Best,
D - check out my webiste for my theories on DP/DR which are substantiated by current research. But there is a LONG way to go. I've stopped trying to keep up with it all and live my life to the fullest, though I am fascinated by the topic.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Dear Spirit,

Your comments about memory are interesting. I'm also fascinated by memory and childhood memory, and false memory, etc.

In reading Marelene Steinberg's book and taking all the quizzes ("Stranger in the Mirror"), one question is, "I cannot remember anything before the age of four." I had to answer True as I am not certain about those earliest memories. It is actually a "trick question", and it is explained later by Dr. Steinberg that studies indicate that memories do not form in the same way before the age of four and are distorted.

*EDIT: Re, Steinberg, the point she makes is that "not remembering things before age 4" must mean a traumatic event happened and when people say TRUE in the exam that means something bad must have happened. As Steinberg explains that those w/ healthy and unhealthy chidhoods rarely have memories of things before 4. Other studies back this up. I just went looking through the book and I can't find the stupid page where she discusses it. I'll keep looking.*

They can also be influenced by memories repeated later in life by parents, friends, other family members. They can be confused with dreams. Children have a profoundly complex fantasy life where they frequently don't know the true boundary between fantasy and reality. I am NO expert in this.

I cannot testify to anyone's memories either, save my own. What is important is what we recall, and what we make of it, and how it fits into who we have become.

I recall a dream from very early childhood, but I could never place the date/age, etc. My only markers in some memories are date stamps on Passports, confirmation by my father re: a few things before he died, and memories of my much older cousins and their kids.

Even memories we are certain of are not exact replicas of what happened.

Per a favorite quotation of mine: from writer Katherine Porter, "I shall try to tell the truth, but the result will be fiction."

And Helen Keller's preface to her memoir: "When I try to classify my earliest impressions, I find that fact and fancy look alike across the years that link the past with the present. The woman paints the child's experience in her own fantasy. A few impressions stand out vividly from the first years of my life; but "the shadows of the prison house are on the rest."
Helen Keller, "The Story of My Life"

Best,
D
Self, Awareness, Consciousness, Memory, etc. are the true final frontier.


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## hurricane12 (May 22, 2008)

wow its weird that you said about dream being mistakened for memories because when i was a kid i had remember actually being born and i had the image of me being in red water and then another image of me not seeing anything in a baby crib and i heard people talking and i smelled something like someone farted. i also remember being in a stroller and always wanting warm milk. and i remember drinking milk from a bottle in my grand mothers sofa and i remember losing my teeth.
man as im typing this i remembering alot of stuff i thought i forgot anyways. i had these memories for a long time and i had the memory about being in red water but never new what it really was then i found out about the pregnacy thing and tthat couldnt be a dream because i never new about pregnacy and how the womb is like until the age of 16

anyways i can remember alot from before the age of 4 which is weird. the thing is when i was a kid i used to always playback memories of past events so ill never forget and thats why i remember so much.

but i had dreams that gotten mistaken for memories like onetime i had a dream i got my finger cut off while someone was cutting an orange and they sticthed it back up. i remember it so clearly it felt like a memory but people tell it me that its a dream


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Yeah, Spirit, I have to read up more on this. I was interested in this in the 1980s/90s when the "Satanic Ritual Abuse" scandals were popping up everywhere.

I highly recommend a film called "Capturing the Friedmans" (sp?) a documentary on whether the father in a rather dysfunctoinal family sexually abused a number of sorry COMPUTER lesson students -- now I don't remember, lol. One kid videotapes the whole ordeal/criminal trial, etc. Some of the stories of the vicitms are so unbelievable they COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. But then there is doubt about this man. It's dicey. It's FASCINATING. Highly recommend it.

AND NO I AM NOT SAYING KIDS ARE NOT SEXUALLY ABUSED.

But it was tendency of pre-schoolers to answer what social workers wanted to say, and then they would start to elaborate, "Yes, Mr. Buckey touched me there in the space ship." Well, at that point, the police didn't go looking for spaceships. In one case where children claimed they were forced to watch bunnies being chopped up and buried on the school grounds, the police at one location dug up the entire lot around a school and found -- nothing.

The study of formation of memories is a whole other field, but as I understand it, and don't get me wrong, no one remembers their own birth. As I understand it (I have to keep using that preface, but I may look for a book on that today -- and I swore I wasn't going to buy another book, lol) ... the infant brain can have no memory of birth (at MINIMUM) as it isn't formed enough for that. Also, as noted, the ability to distinguish between reailty and fantasy as a little child grows is poor, until a certain age I don't recall.

Also, the teenage brain is not fully developed. Not in terms of memory, but in terms of making proper decisions. Teens need more sleep, are impulsive, etc. And they have observed a "pruning" time in the brain when excess, unused neurons? are eliminated.

The bottom line though re: how poor memory is anyway are experiments done on unsuspecting uni students. Some famous ones , and I wish I could cite the sources are:

1. *College students were in an experiment which involved a parent or other influential individual who had been in their lives since childhood. A conversation was initiated where the parent would say, "Remember that time you got lost in the grocery store?  You were about 6 I think. I couldn't find you and you couldn't find me. I was frantic, and I could only hear you screaming. Then that nice man, Sam, who worked there, who looked like Santa, he found you! I was so glad!"

Well, this was all made up.* At any rate, in this study, some months later the students were ask to recount a "traumatic experience" perhaps mentioned by a parent. Many recounted THAT STORY THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN COMPLETE DETAIL as it had been "planted" and rehearsed, and the individuals pondered over it so much it took on a life of its own. THEY SWORE IT HAPPENED TO THEM, EVEN AFTER EVERYONE INVOLVED SAID IT WAS AN EXPERIMENT.

2. *We know that one of the most unreliable sources of a criminal investigatoin is "an eye witness."* There is a mountain of forensic studies on this. For instance, if you stop into a Starbucks, buy a coffee from one woman there, talk with her, then order a donut. Sit in the store an hour and leave, you probably can't remember much re: the woman who sold you the coffee and may even think it was a man who sold you the coffee.

Also, suggestible people, if interrogated long enough under duress will confess to murders they didn't commit and will actually finally believe they did it. This goes to brainwashing in cults. And police have to be very careful when they interrogate people. Innocent people (like children) will confess to things they haven't done to get the authority figure off their back. Then they may get confused if they actually did what someone said they did!

3. *This is a hilarious experiment done in various ways. College students -- say 150 in a lecture -- are paying attention to some lecture on math. During the lecture a MAN IN A GORILLA SUIT with a back pack walks across the lecture area where the professor is speaking.*

The lecture continues. After the lecture, the kids are polled -- did something odd happen during the lecture? Some WON'T REMEMBER (some probably fell asleep or looked down to write notes, lol). Some will have said they noticed something and some may have laughed, but didn't remember the details. But there were so many different descriptions. And there were debates re: whether it was an animal or a human, had "something on his back" or not. Etc.

Memory is very creepy, lol. And if you just chat with friends about an event say 10 years ago, you all are bound to forget details, get places, dates, people involved confused.

4. *Things that tend to be BURNED in our memories and there is some damned word for this I've already forgotten, lol, are HUGE events such as 9/11, the asassination of a leader, Princess Diana's death, events in a war (that veterans talk about over and over and over until they die -- believe me, may Uncle Abe RIP, God Bless him, WWII Veteran). Most people remember more details of where they are, who was with them, the date. Heightened awareness.*

*And then awful things that happen to us that threaten our lives, these things we CANNOT forget.* And this is where PTSD comes in. Rape, nearly getting shot, being in a fire, etc., etc., etc. These things cause re-enactments in one's sleep and waking times, irritability, low startle threshhold (hear a car backfire and fall to the ground as you think it's a gun shooting). Hallucinations that your house is on fire and it was bombed by a military helicopter. Rage, etc., etc.

Being abused over a long period of time is something else. Although say, a child were witness to her father shooting her mother in the head. That is a PTSD experience. DP or DR as a result? Not clear. PTSD is also different from a more insidious chronic subtle abuse.

OK, now I want to go back to school and study memory, LOL. Anyone want to loan me $50,000 for university?

End of lecture. :mrgreen: 
Spirit, one of the most reliable forms of retaining memories is a journal -- I saw a crime program last night where a woman's 30 year old journal helped solve a 30 year old cold case of 4 murders (the miracle was they found one bit of DNA that had been lost from the original investigation -- but they didn't use DNA in the '70s so it had to be done recently!). I believe you keep one. But children don't keep journals when they are very young, and to the best of my understanding, memory is poor until @ age four. Pre-School usually starts at 4 or 5. Now I would swear at 2.5 I remember being in my preschool dressed as a Leopard in a "play" -- but I would have been too young to do the activities I recall. But I think it was a later memory from age 5.

As I always say ... the mind is INFINTELY complex.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Ah, here's a perfect real example of birth early physical trauma.

A friend of mine (since 6th grade!) had a very rough pregnancy (13 years ago -- wowzer) and was on bed rest for 2 months. Her son was born about 1.5 months premature I think. SO TEEENY I almost had a stroke. He had to be in the hospital for several weeks (see even I'm not clear on this memory and I helped her everyday since the bed rest started and was very involved in his early years.)

Anyway, her son has no memory of the hospital at all. And it was obviously stressful. He was on oxygen, had medicatoins, needles, all that crap. But he just shrugs his shoulders if I say, "Oh R., you were so little in the hospital!" He doesn't care, and is no worse for wear as a result.

He hasn't repressed anything or "forgotten" anything. As I understand it the infant brain has no capability to form complex cognitive memories. It doesn't make sense in terms of survival. The infant is completely helpless, can't feed itself, can't do anything for itself. It must be stimulated physically and emotionally and mentally to get those abilities started in the brain, and the brain grows new pathways in response and then begins to learn and form memories, etc.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2008)

Dreamer* said:


> Dear Spirit,
> 
> Your comments about memory are interesting. I'm also fascinated by memory and childhood memory, and false memory, etc.
> 
> ...


[/quote]

Hi Dreamer,
That is strange because my early childhood was very traumatic but I can remember it,not all of it though,I do have alot of blank spots from ages of early teens.But I do know that I blocked out a traumaric event at that age re;abuse..which I now know is real.The events I speak about above from early childhood are also confirmed by my mother in conversations weve had,so they did happen ,and were not a dream or fantasy.Strange.

Spirit.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Dear Spirit,
I don't know what to make of infant memory. I was researching it a bit over the weekend. There have been some huge strides in understanding childhood cognitive development, but it is obviously difficult to chat with a child about things.

There is what is called NORMAL "infantile amnesia" -- that is apparently the brain of a newborn is not capable of forming memories, hence if there is something to remember it isn't retained. This is the case with normal people. Hence if you recall birth ... I don't know what to make of it.

My mother, who had a vendetta against my father, told me that when I was a baby my father would be angry when I cried and go into my crib and push down on me to make me stop crying. I don't recall that, and I don't believe it. But once someone has said that, you start wondering, and you can almost "see it" in your mind. My father was very passive. He and I rarely talked about anything of significance emotionally, but I asked him about his before his death. He was furious at my mother for saying that. He was literaly crying saying "NO, I would NEVER have done that." And I believe him.

EDIT: Also my father was NEVER cruel to me as my mother was. He was simply absent. Out of the house and emotionally stunted. He however drove me around to theatre and ballet lessons. Was proud of my artistic accomplishments. And some of my fondest memories are of his reading me stories and taking me on weekends to the museum. He never raised his voice to me and would be incapable of hurting me. My mother lied. She lied about so many things and even told my husband years later (when she starting getting dementia and had been drinking), "Sandy tells the truth, I lie." He almost passed out. But I have some or her personal writings. She always tried fooling and manipulating people to feel powerful.

Also, in theory per Steinberg, a memory like that wouldn't be processed -- as she says, and I didn't look for this again, memories before the age of four are not clear in most people (healthy people or traumatized people). Perhaps by 2.5 (I saw childrens' artwork on that in an art book) have a different way of seeing the world too. And someone could have a memory I think of age 2.5 on. But the further you move from those years, the less likely the memories are clear.

I am not challenging your experience, I only wonder how it is possible, as again, the infant brain appparently cannont hold informaton for long periods of time, and many actions that are innate are stimulated and reinforced by human interaction. It is however true that studies with abused puppies, mice, etc. show they can be overly anxious. Also the great apes, and babies left unattended in orphanages without physical contact fail to thrive physically. And their intellecutal development can be stunted.

Anyway, I am curious about this, but it is a field unto itself, and it is almost too much for me to even begin to research it.

So much to learn about how we become who we are.

Missing pieces of some of the rest of your childhood, I can believe, but for me, every bit of abuse and trauma (essentially verbal) that I had I recall in great detail. And that would be starting around age 5, and in doing my website I found as much collaboration as possible.

Also, my mother and aunt were apparently treated poorly by my grandparents, whom I barely remember. They both died when I was six, and I don't recall my father's parents at all. Well, my paternal grandmother died before I was born, and my paternal grandfather also died when I was about 5 or 6. My cousins (older than I) recall these things. They also recall my mother being "different" and she probably did have Borderline but was extremely high functioning.

At any rate, IMHO, personally have trouble with remembering one's birth. Examining it in purely survival terms, all mammals give birth. If it was so traumatic that would not be beneficial to survival.

I just don't know. And this is something researchers are also only figuring out, very slowly these days.

Cheers,
D


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi Dreamer ,
dont take this the wrong way,but personally I dont need you to beleive me.Ive had enough of my reality invalidated for most of my life and im not about to have someone else doing it.The memorys I have are not things that were suggested to me,I just remember them.In recent conversations with my mother about my childhood and abuse etc,weve had lengthy conversations about exactly what my parents were arguming about and the events that followed.I never said I remembered my birth,I only remember from 2 yrs onwards.

I dont care much for scientific research,I have a heart and feelings also that science possibly cant even understand.

Sometimes I feel you use all this research stuff as a way of intellectualizing your experiences to make them easier to cope with.And also you hope it is all neurological so that science can validate your experience.I dont need that validation anymore.

MY experience,My traumas,My memorys.End of.
Spirit.

I apologise if Im coming across a bit rude but your post upset me a little and brought back some old issues,People invalidating my experience when they say they arent doing so ,I just do not need that anymore.Been there and done it.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

Spirit said:


> Hi Dreamer ,
> dont take this the wrong way,but personally I dont need you to beleive me.Ive had enough of my reality invalidated for most of my life and im not about to have someone else doing it.The memorys I have are not things that were suggested to me,I just remember them.In recent conversations with my mother about my childhood and abuse etc,weve had lengthy conversations about exactly what my parents were arguming about and the events that followed.*I never said I remembered my birth,I only remember from 2 yrs onwards.*
> 
> I dont care much for scientific research,I have a heart and feelings also that science possibly cant even understand.
> ...


Well, I'm sorry. Firstly I thought you had a clear memory of birth, so I completely misunderstood that! My fault. I don't mean to invalidate your experience, and when I try to sort mine out I am trying to come to terms with it in my own way. As I always say I don't think there is one "right" way to work out a horrid childhood. We each do the best we can.

Yes, I intellectualize, but before that, before understanding what was happening to me, before even clearly seeing how nutty my life was, I have been full of rage, suicidal, I have acted out, I have cried myself sick. It is like going through Elizabeth Kubler Ross's stages of dealing with death. I don't recall, Denial, Rage, Bargaining With God, .... finallly acceptance, and what I mean by that is, I'm at yet another stage now. I'm 49. To be honest I still haven't accepted everything. These days I'm numb, rather emotionless, and looking to refocus on a summer visiting my husband in L.A., then having a friend visit me here. Really making myself connect with others to feel better about myself.

I'm really forcing myself to do this.

So we are all also at different places.

I hope you understand that I am in pain, right now. And even what you say makes ME feel invalidated, lol. But that's OK. The key thing here is I honestly thought you talked about birth trauma and I was focusing on that. And Marelene Steinberg's book is about everything from DP to DID having to do with trauma. It is a workbook as well as a lot of other things. And as noted I've read stuff on working through being raised in an invalidating environment in DBT based on Buddhist thought. I think I said Marsha Linehan's work in DBT based on Thich Nhat Hahn has been the most helpful for me. Plus my meds. And time.

The question is of both Nature and Nurture. Science ... I don't think it takes away our humanity. It is only one aspect of understanding who we are. If you think this is some crutch I have or avoidance (I've been told that many times), then you don't believe what I'm doing is "right". Believe me, nothing I did in my entire life was "right" according to my mother. I was bad, I was a bitch, I was a liar, I was evil. It is very difficult to undo that endless pounding at your soul.

I don't mean to invalidate you. Honestly. But of course we are entitled to our own opinions.
Really I thought you described a birth experience somewhere.

Sorry,
D


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2008)

I didnt say I thought it was wrong to intellectualize,I mean look at borderline personaliy and its miriad of faulty ways of dealing with reality and experience.I intellectualized as a coping skill at some time or other,I became a master at manipulating with logic etc..I split my mind/personality into a thousand differant compartments to deal with it "all"...but it does take away our focus from the emotional.

About two years ago I was ill and had to make an apointment with the emergency out of hours doctor.He said to me "Althought you have bpd,there isnt actually anything wrong with you,your behaviours are what have kept you alive and were essential for your survival" So I do understand.

You know, I still get mood swings and Im sorry that may have provoked such a defensive response from me to your post.

Do what you have to Dreamer,im sorry you are still in so much pain.I think people dont see your pain so much because you come across on here as very together and capable.

Spirit.



hurricane12 said:


> wow its weird that you said about dream being mistakened for memories because when i was a kid i had remember actually being born and i had the image of me being in red water and then another image of me not seeing anything in a baby crib and i heard people talking and i smelled something like someone farted. i also remember being in a stroller and always wanting warm milk. and i remember drinking milk from a bottle in my grand mothers sofa and i remember losing my teeth.
> man as im typing this i remembering alot of stuff i thought i forgot anyways. i had these memories for a long time and i had the memory about being in red water but never new what it really was then i found out about the pregnacy thing and tthat couldnt be a dream because i never new about pregnacy and how the womb is like until the age of 16
> 
> anyways i can remember alot from before the age of 4 which is weird. the thing is when i was a kid i used to always playback memories of past events so ill never forget and thats why i remember so much.
> ...


It was hurricane who desribed the birth experience I think ,and you replyed to me about it.


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## Guest (Jun 24, 2008)

Firstly, LOL. Well at least I didn't hallucinate that I read something about birth! Wrong person. OMG.

Ah, and isn't this the irony:


> Do what you have to Dreamer,im sorry you are still in so much pain.I think people dont see your pain so much because you come across on here as very together and capable.


I try to put out a positive attitude. But I will be honest, I am not a happy camper. When I post negative things, I'm "dwelling on my illness." Sort of a no-win situation as I have always "presented well", but have fought tooth and nail to "fake it" my whole life. For some people, many ex "friends" -- I have never lived up to my potential (which is true), but it is out of laziness, weakness. The very words my mother used since I can recall. When I gave up in second grade.

Truly my anxiety these past few years has been outrageous. And the chronic DP/DR just wears one down to a nub.

But the irony ... "But you look so fine. You sound so fine." Ah, if you really saw my life, lol. But I do try the best I can, and I can't worry about those who don't "believe me."

My mindset is indeed to pluck the smallest bit of joy out of each day. And I guess that is worth it. What I find very important is I am not suicidal. I have been a number of times in the past. Truly ready to go. I do not feel that way. It is truly an awful mindset that you can't get out of.

Anyway. I think we have this settled. And I also understand my mix of analyzing things as I've never been able to know how to express myself properly. To know when emotions were real or false. I would cry and my mother would say I was acting,etc.

I won't go on. But I think we have common ground. More than you think. And yes, we are very different.

At least life is ... not boring? :? 8) 
D


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