# "Eminem Is Right" - Hip Hop/Rap and Abandonment



## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

This article helps me understand the new trend in music today, and it speaks to those of us who have experienced family trauma, divorce, and abandonment, physical and emotional ....

http://www.policyreview.org/dec04/eberstadt.html

*Eminem Is Right*

"If there is one subject on which the parents of America passionately agree, it is that contemporary adolescent popular music, especially the subgenres of heavy metal and hip-hop/rap, is uniquely degraded ? and degrading ? by the standards of previous generations. At first blush this seems slightly ironic. After all, most of today?s baby-boom parents were themselves molded by rock and roll, bumping and grinding their way through adolescence and adulthood with legendary abandon. Even so, the parents are correct: Much of today?s music is darker and coarser than yesterday?s rock. Misogyny, violence, suicide, sexual exploitation, child abuse ? these and other themes, formerly rare and illicit, are now as common as the surfboards, drive-ins, and sock hops of yesteryear.

In a nutshell, the ongoing adult preoccupation with current music goes something like this: What is the overall influence of this deafening, foul, and often vicious-sounding stuff on children and teenagers? This is a genuinely important question, and serious studies and articles, some concerned particularly with current music?s possible link to violence, have lately been devoted to it. In 2000, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry all weighed in against contemporary lyrics and other forms of violent entertainment before Congress with a first-ever ?Joint Statement on the Impact of Entertainment Violence on Children.?

*Nonetheless, this is not my focus here. Instead, I would like to turn that logic about influence upside down and ask this question: What is it about today?s music, violent and disgusting though it may be, that resonates with so many American kids?*

As the reader can see, this is a very different way of inquiring about the relationship between today?s teenagers and their music. The first question asks what the music does to adolescents; the second asks what it tells us about them. To answer that second question is necessarily to enter the roiling emotional waters in which that music is created and consumed ? in other words, actually to listen to some of it and read the lyrics.

*As it turns out, such an exercise yields a fascinating and little understood fact about today?s adolescent scene. If yesterday?s rock was the music of abandon, today?s is that of abandonment. The odd truth about contemporary teenage music ? the characteristic that most separates it from what has gone before ? is its compulsive insistence on the damage wrought by broken homes, family dysfunction, checked-out parents, and (especially) absent fathers.*

Papa Roach, Everclear, Blink-182, Good Charlotte, Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam, Kurt Cobain and Nirvana, Tupac Shakur, Snoop Doggy Dogg, Eminem ? these and other singers and bands, all of them award-winning top-40 performers who either are or were among the most popular icons in America, have their own generational answer to what ails the modern teenager. Surprising though it may be to some, that answer is: dysfunctional childhood. Moreover, and just as interesting, many bands and singers explicitly link the most deplored themes in music today ? suicide, misogyny, and drugs ? with that lack of a quasi-normal, intact-home personal past."

................. see link for full article. Fascinating.

Full article by Mary Eberstadt, from *Policy Review*

L,
D :shock:


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## terri* (Aug 17, 2004)

Hairball...you're not supposed to be here, you research Queen, you. lol

Thanks for the article. It speaks to many members of the board.

Now, shoo! :wink:

terri


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

Eminem :roll:


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## Dreamer (Aug 9, 2004)

*Dear Bro,*

(Terri, I know, I'm not supposed to be here. Going to bed in a mo  )

*I don't understand your response*, that is the title of the article, "Eminem is Right". It is interesting that though Mathers is one of the most popular hip hop icons, his movie "8 Mile" a huge success, the article notes he is attacked more viciously than most black rappers.

Have to read the whole article to understand. It's fascinating. Thought you would enjoy it. The music makes more sense to me now. It speaks to kids/young adults without solid families -- where rage, hurt, and dysfunction come from.

*Bro, What did you think of the article? It's the sociology of music. Pretty neat stuff?*

Best,
D :shock:


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

Dreamer, I read the article but my attention span is short sometimes.

Yeah Eminem is " attacked" or whatever. Personally I think most of his new music is horrible. I bet you didn't know that a tape was released of him when he was younger making racist statements against black people & black women. He didn't deny it either, and actually apologized for it. Thats kind of ironic huh? He makes millions off of a Black culture....... I used to like Eminem, but after his first commercially released album his music just went down the tubes. Now he just puts out garbage and knows it, and knows that little 14 year old kids in the suburbs will buy it, because he is a hot trend.

As far as Rap music being the voice of the youth and what not. I definietly AGREE. Its the voice of the ghetto and the streets and the youth. 90 % of the rappers come from inner cities and alot come from poverty and broken families and negativity. I can relate to alot of the shit rappers talk about, and I even talk about some of it in my own music, because i go through similar things. However alot of rappers have become Industry and Corporate pawns, rapping about CARS, JEWELERY, HOW MUCH MONEY THEY MAKE ETC ETC.... And they glorify it like its the only thing that matters. This misleads the youth and alot of aspiring rappers and others. Its sad really

You hear a rapper talking about his million dollar necklace or his Benz. You come to the Hood you don't see either one, and if you do see a Benz its usually been purchased by drug money.


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

Agree with you SoulBro. I can't stand all these rap music videos out now where everybody is partyin' with tons of half-naked women, wearing loads of gold jewelry and drinking Crystal. I think the part that bothers me the most is what you talked about--how these rappers are supposed to be the "voice of the ghetto" but it looks like all they care about are material things, like that is what life is all about. I think it sends out a terrible message to the kids of poor families who could get the impression that stocking up on bling is more important than saving some money, possibly getting an education, and moving out of a crime-infested neighborhoods and providing a safer environment for their family.

I don't think the music is nearly as corrupting as videos are. It's one thing to sing about sex or drugs or whatever, but when you see this stuff acted out in videos, it presents a whole new level of reality (even though it isn't very real at all.) But, I don't like blaming anything on music. It's an excuse parents use to make up for their own failures in parenting. It's just a whole new obstacle in parenting these days, and rather than blocking out certain TV channels, parents just need to get the point across to their kids that these musicians are living in fantasy-land.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2004)

Gimpy i totally agree man, the problem is ALOT of really talented artists nowadays do not get the proper exposure because lables are just looking for the NEW HOT TREND. When Eminem got signed, lables started looking for other white rappers hence BUBBA SPARXX getting signed. If you listen to alot of indiependant artists and " Underground" artists you will hear the difference and hear the creativity and so forth. I mean theres SOME creative and quality artists who are " commercial" but the vast majority are not. When rap first became " mainstream" there was alot more diversity within the " mainstream". Since the beginning rappers have been rapping about jewelery, money, etc etc But the MUSIC WAS GOOD so it didn't matter and you also had a great variety of artists who talked about different things. Nowadays on the " commercialized corporate level" 90 % of the artists all talk about and do the same shit.

And to say one more thing, half of the shit you see in videos such as BLING, CARS, HOUSES ETC is all rented. Alot of these rappers aren't as paid as you may think because the record lables RAPE THEM ( not literally) Indiependant artists who can acquire a MAJOR LABLE DISTROBUTION DEAL are the ones who make the real money because more of the money from record sales and other things go to them, and they don't have to worry about Royalties and oweing the lable.

Example

Jay Z = very very very rich, all the ice & things you see him wearing, IS HIS, because he went the correct business route.

alot of rappers don't do this and end up broke, i.e. MC HAMMER


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

I miss the days of rap when they rapped about chicken tasting wood and taking dips in the pool after school. Where has the innocence gone?

Almost all mainstream music sucks these days. I think a lot of people are hesitant to say they like Coldplay because they are mainstream, but I'm sorry, they're f'n good.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2004)

Hey Gimpy check out this song http://www.weightless.net/youmustlearn.mp3

you might like it

its by Jakki ( pronounced Ja-Ky) the Motamouth featuring Greenhouse Effect, some rappers from Columbus Ohio.

It's kind of political

theres alot of good rap you haven't been exposed to because of all of the " commercial" shit like we have been speaking on.


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

like it better than most rap I hear. I respect it which is about the best compliment I can give rap music. I'm just not a rap fan and I'm sick of rappers like P. Diddy ripping off licks from old songs and making a rap song out of it. There is no integrity in that. Of all the mainstream rap I've heard over the years, the only rap I've been able to listen to was Dr. Dre's The Chronic and Snoop's first album, which I thought were totally original at the time. I respect OutKast, too. I'm into more melodic stuff, chord changes. Rap just seems monotone to me. But, I'm also a guy who loves Phish, whose earlier work is like classical music, jazz, carribean/salsa, bluegrass, and rock all thrown together.

I've actually thought about teaming up with some rapper and writing music that is somewhat complex with a lot of chord changes. But, the rapper would also need to be able to sing. The rapper could maybe rap the verses and sing out the choruses. Superfly is in my top 10 favorite albums of all time. Something like that with rap. Isn't there a rap song that uses the main riff from Freddie's Dead? i think it just keeps recycling that riff over the beat. Instead do the original song with all the changes and rap over it. That would be cool if it could be done effectively.


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2004)

Stuff like this shouldn't be overlooked


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2004)

COLD VEIN is a good album

Ziggomatix knows whats up


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

Eminem cracks my shit up personally

i heart him


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2004)

^ Eminem Sucks. <- period


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## person3 (Aug 10, 2004)

we all have our own opinions. period.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2004)

period. <-period


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## enngirl5 (Aug 10, 2004)

I don't know. I like Eminem. I know he's mainstream and it's not cool to like him but just cause he's mega famous doesn't mean he's not good. If he wasn't so famous a lot more people would admit to liking him. Which I find funny. I'm not attacking you soul bro cause I know you have a unique taste and know things about rap that I will NEVER know. So that's cool. It's just that as mainstream rap goes these days Eminem is a breath of fresh air because he's actually rapping about _something_. I mentioned this before about my car cd player getting stolen so I'm back to the radio and I am so fucking sick of hearing rappers like P. Diddy talking about Bling, Ice, money, SUV's, and women. It's complete crap and I don't understand who listens to it. Who is making these people famous? The same people that voted Ashley Simpson for Billboards Best New Female artist, not one month after her lip syncing thing on SNL. Music is all about image (sex) because it's the 13 year olds that are buying all the shit. And I remember when I was in the 1st grade and was in love with New Kids on the Block, and I wonder how older people felt about having to hear them on the radio and tv 24/7. lol. Why can't music be like it was in the 60's and 70's? I'm just fed up. The whole bad rap music and teeny bopper thing has been going on long enough and it must be stopped. I've said my peace.


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## sleepingbeauty (Aug 18, 2004)

thats what i was saying in the president thread. we need a good shot of political, hippy, whatever you wanna call it music. we need music that says something that has some broad scope beyond the so-called 'artists' bedroom and bank account. music is a form of communication and i think weve forgotten that. music is not about money or fame or power. its about experience and exploration and education. its about telling a story and sharing your life with someone.. everyone.. anyone. thats what we as a planet need to start understanding again. i would rather see a pygmy african drummer get a record deal and make the number one spot on TRL. usher ramond, kelly clarkson, ashlee simpson are all jokes. they are like empty puppets with nothing profound to share or say. they let the industry guide them and in return they get rich and in turn they spend it on louis vitton luggage sets and smart houses that wipe your ass for you. for the price of that luggage set the pygmy drummer could feed his entire village for a year.

the world needs to wake up. the world needs to get back down to basics. down to its ROOTS. how can you know where you are going if you dont know where youve been? you cant know your future if you dont know your past. thats the dilema we are in right now and the music industry is the obvious reflection of that. lost souls making dead music for empty minds.

its so so sad.


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## gimpy34 (Aug 10, 2004)

Eminem is such a poser. Why do musicians have to look hard and mad all the time? He never shuts up about being the real slim shady. Every song. blah, blah, blah, blah


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

EMINEM used to be GOOD, but after his first commercial album he started to fall off. He started making corny songs because the lable told him to and because he needed to continue to make hits so that he would sell lots & lots of records. I think now he realized this and doesn't care anymore, Thats why the first single off of his last album was so bad, I think he did it on purpose to say YEAH I CAN PUT OUT THE WORST SONG EVER AND IT WILL STILL SELL BECAUSE EVERYONE BUYS MY ALBUMS REGARDLESS. Do you think all of the 14 & 15 year old white kids in the suburbs hesitated to go pick up the newest Eminem album?? I think not

Eminem is funny though because dude is like 32 and he dresses like hes 16. I hate his clothing line, ughhhhhhhh


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

I think the same thing could be said about Vanilla Ice who started his music career with such powerful songs as 'Ice Ice Baby' and ' Juice to Get Loose Boy'. The philosophical undertones of these songs brought tears to my eyes and the heart-filled lyrics resonate inside of me to this day.












Musical Genious said:


> Something grabs a hold of me tightly
> Then I flow that a harpoon daily and nightly
> Will it ever stop?
> Yo--I don't know
> ...


After that he had totally sold out in my eyes with the dreadful Ninja Rap.


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

Vanilla Ice was a complete talentless joke, he was a PUPPET

some real white rappers 3rd Bass( pronounced Base) at the time dissed him as well as MC HAMMER in the now rap classic POP GOES THE WEASEL

Antoine, Antoine's got something here
Ro-roll that window
We have to turn around because I want to shoot you
Park the limousine, in front of the swamp
Then I want to shoot you dauncing on the limousine
with the swamp in the background
It looks like you're in the jungle, okay?

Let's all sing, Pop Goes the Weasel!

[Pete Nice]
Pop goes the, pop goes the windin of the weasel
I see the empty pocket needs a refill

[MC Serch]
I got a squad with a list of complainers
I should have started RAPE:
Rappers Against Phony Entertainers
So we can make it known that we won't get swayed
It's ninety-one son, so somethin's gotta change

[Pete Nice]
Gettin paid to peddle sneakers and soda pop (pop pop pop)
Pop goes the weasel as drawers drop (drop drop dop)
Why not take your top ten pop hit
fix the music and make senseless ryhmes fit

[MC Serch]
I guess it's the fact that you can't be artistic
Intricate raps, becomin so simplistic
I gotta strong mind it doesn't have to be spoon-fed
And I can read what doesn't have to be read

[Pete Nice]
So some stay illiterate and feeble, legally licked
You go the ways of the weasel (the weasel)

Chorus: 3rd Bass (repeat 2X)

Pop Pop goes the weasel, the weasel *3X*
Pop goes the weasel, 'cuz the weasel goes pop

[MC Serch]
Hip-hop, got turned into hit pop
the second a record was number one on the pop charts
For those that get on heart that gotta in the ghetto
Let no one forget about the hard part
Now in ninety-one we got a new brand, a new band
lookin like the same old Klan
Same old theives that skeez so we gotta make sure
that real rap has got to endure

[Pete Nice]
Why score all my points in one peroid
Appearin in complex structure like a pyramid
The paper for the media presence
Ya learn lesson from the face of false legend
Stop vexin on the skills, ya ain't originate
The thin ice you skate upon will break and set ya straight
Ate up on the plate, now who's diesel
Not the weasel, not the weasel, pop goes the weasel

Chorus

[Serch]	Ya stole somebody's record then ya looped it, ya looped it
[Pete]	Ya boosted the record then ya looped it, ya looped it
[Serch]	Aiyyo, I came from Cali, and they hooped it, they hooped it
[Pete]	But now you're getting sued kinda stoopid

[MC Serch]
Boosted tracks get slaps, ya got no haps
to reach all four corners of the map
For kids in Kansas.. to those who speak Spanish
Doin crazy damage so the wack gets banished
Can't manage the truth until you buy a way
Ya ain't quick so ya switch off the exit from my highway
to rest but a crook, had to take a second look
Ever heard of a chef who can't cook?
But the Minister Prime can lay laws
Hey yo, Pete Nice, rip the mic and go for yours

[Pete Nice]
Goes for mine, I goes for mine
Find the Prime won't eat the green eggs and swine
On line like the Serch, in the hoody with the woody
Get a disc or tape, at Sam Goody
Why'd ya run through the doors some left open?
Ropin off the scenes of the crime smokin 
I got pub and I'ma nut like a SCUD see
Blowin up, like I'm throwin up a beef patty
Sell-outs run a bout like the measles
No cures, cause pop goes the weasels

Chorus 2X


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

Haha, I was just reminded of this suburban british rapper 'kid acne'. I gotta find a link for you guys..hes ridiculous.

White rappers eh...only one I like is The Streets (which is more garage rap if anything) and the Beastie Boys

Seriously check this out...its pretty fucked - first one is full length song, rest are samples. I present Kid Acne....










http://www.invisiblespies.com/mp3s/move_it_or_lose_it.mp3 -

http://www.invisiblespies.com/mp3s/hooligan78lofi.mp3

http://www.invisiblespies.com/mp3s/radiomusiclofi.mp3

http://www.invisiblespies.com/mp3s/the twockershi fi.mp3

http://www.invisiblespies.com/mp3s/junction20.mp3


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

theres alot of good white rappers, I hate making things a race issue because color doesn't matter, TALENT matters

good white rappers

Copywrite
Diabolic
Ill Bill of Non Phixion
Slug of Atmosphere
El-P
Aesop Rock
Apathy
Sage Francis

check out this song its by Perfuse 73 featuring EL-P & Ghostface ( of Wu Tang) kind of a collaboration you wouldn't expect but actually it does make sense, http://www.spinemagazine.com/music/ghostelp/hya.mp3

its called HIDE YA FACE


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## Guest (Dec 17, 2004)

Haha...this is the first Prefuse i've heard heard that makes sense. I can actually understand what is going on and I like it. I wish he'd stop spending so much time on his computer messing with his beats because there is some really good stuff under the surface. He just tweaks things way too much and it gets confused.

Aight, I gotta go catch my bus. I'll be back in a week or so to piss you guys off some more.


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

If you want to hear a funny british rapper then you should listen to this guy called pitman, I heard one of his songs on 120 minutes on mtv2 the other day and I was like WTF? he is like a miner or something and he raps about mining and random funny crap, and what makes it like a thousand times funnier is the fact that he kind of talks his lyrics and his deleivery is like in a brummie accent.

I think jarvis cocker is fan of him apparantly but he is still not well knwon or anything, don't even know if he has an album out.

SOME INTERVIEWS/ARTICLES ABOUT PITMAN

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/t ... 967871.stm

http://www.ukhh.com/features/interviews/pitman/

http://www.ukhh.com/reviews/seven-inch/540.html

Official site (including audio track)

http://www.pitmanworld.com/


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2004)

^ no


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

They play him on radio 1!

and he does have an album out

It takes a nation of tossers

http://www.ukhh.com/bhh/artists/pitman- ... ossers.htm


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## lone wolf (Aug 10, 2004)

SoulBrotha said:


> ^ no


Why not? I became already interested in Pitman - maybe he has a deep humane message like Scatman John... Or maybe not, but who cares if he's funny? 

Anybody interested in Finnish reggae group Soul Captain Band? Try their first album Jokaiselle tulta, if you wanna listen to something you won't ever understand (Finnish) but what sounds like authentic original reggae... And if you learned Finnish, it is even better.


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

Yeh the buzz around pitman is because of his funny lyrical content, probably a big hit with students but he preety much takes the pee out of everyone as far as I gathred

Still he is doing something preety different to the rest of the hip hop I hear and I find him kind of funny, (though im not a great fan of hip hop)


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

Is singing about eating tea and bisquits original lyrical content in hip hop?


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## Guest (Dec 18, 2004)

Hip Hop is not music

& the nonsense you posted, " Pittman" is not a rapper, hes a disgrace


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## Guest (Dec 19, 2004)

^ what did you just say?


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## falling_free (Nov 3, 2004)

> Hip Hop is not music


Ok hip hop is a lifestyle as well as a music movement, but so are most types of music, so hip hop is still music



> the nonsense you posted, " Pittman" is not a rapper, hes a disgrace


yes but i also posted this

If you want to hear a *funny* british rapper then you should listen to this guy called pitman

I wasn't suggesting this guy was a serious rap artist like say jay z or whoeever I was just posting up about an artist I had heard who some people may find funny, probably britisih peopel because he is rapping about british stuff and about tea and bisquits so I think he is keeping it real in his own way because he is not rapping about stuff or a lifestyle that he is not a part of, just normal stuff like eating bisquits and drinking tea.

Im not eve na fan of him anyway , I just thought he was a preety fun person to listen to for about 4 minutes, maybe ive got a crappy sense of humour but meh whatever I dont care.


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2004)

I've got to say I really like, in terms of mainstream artists:

1) 2pac
2) Kool Keith
3) Big Punisher
4) KRS-One
5) Chuck D
6) Black Thought
7) Nas
8) Ghostface Killah
9) Scarface
10) Bizzy Bone & Krayzie Bone


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2004)

I wouldn't consider Kool Keith to be mainstream at all


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2004)

Yeah, probably not, Soul. But he's pretty famous.


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