# The Truth About DP/DR, and Solution!



## lostsoul

I know this all might be hard to believe, i know how you feel, you believe in DP because you have to have something to call this shit by.

I'm suffering from 'DP/DR' for almost two years now. Here's the way out.

DP/DR is C.R.A.P, DP/DR doesn't exist, FORGET about DP/DR now!

Read this over and over.

When human where more primitive, thousands of years ago and when they were attacked they would go from their body to their mind to escape. The same do animals when they feel pain, they go their head because they can't handle the pain.
The problem is that we're in our HEAD/MIND instead of our BODY.
You are most-likely obsessed with anything. NO. This doesn't cause the DP/DR. The obsession is caused because you're in your mind.
Face it, where you full of courage your whole life ? NO! We are cowards, thats the whole problem. We were cowards when we were kids and this cowardness remained to us. If we had enough courage to face life we would be in our body.

Weed DIDN'T cause your 'DP/DR'. What caused it is that you had a bad trip and were soooooo scared that you shot up in your mind. Now you got so scared of your state that you remained in this state because you were scared for this state (isn't that ironic).

When someone has or witnesses a car accident this person will shoot up to his mind. We have this state (most of us) 24/7. The person who had a car accident understands it's safe after the accident. Feeling safe is the only thing a human needs to feel happy! We remain feeling unsafe because we got scared of the state. So we remained in our mind.

I bet that there are more men with DP/DR then women, simply because women are naturally more in their body.

All negativity comes from our MIND. Our body contains only positivity.

Ok, I hope i convinced you by now.... Now how do we get into our body ?

Simple, the ingredients are like this:

1) Socialize, meet people, have long talks.
2) Meet at the same night a wise friend if you have one. Let him talk you some sense in your mind. Talk for hours, you need a lot of common sense!
3) Now go to a save place. The place where you feel the most save. For me that is my bed. Lie down. Start talking loud to your self. Say 'I went thru a LOT of shit! I was bullied, tortured, whatever, BUT... now i'm safe!'
4) At the same time of talking some common sense to your self (AUTO SUGGESTION) start FEELING. I know you don't feel anything (DUH! you're not in your body, feelings don't come from your mind), but try to feel anyway, or if you really can't recognize anything try to guess what you feel. Do this every second! What do i feel now ? What do i feel now ?
5) At the same time feel your body ! What do i feel now in my body ? My hands ? Concentrate on your hands (MEDITATION). My feet ? My leg ? My head ?
6) While doing this your body might tremble, hurt or whatever. Don't get scared!!!!!!! DON'T! Don't get a panic attack! I give you my promise, YOU WON'T DIE!
6) Do this for as long it takes. I promise you, you will shoot into your body. This is the most amazing experience you will get in your life, PROMISED! It's totally magical. Now you want to stay in this state, believe me, you will! The best thing to ruin it is to get scared or anxious. Don't move, whatever you do don't move. When I got in this state I was so anxious to tell my loved ones what happened that I ruined it. Stay in your safe place for the next few hours until you're comfortable with this state.

When you do get out of this state, try again and again and again. To cure you need to get into your body!! You will be the most positive person on this planet if you are. You will thank the one who caused you your trauma because you're in this beautiful state.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY OUT! FORGET ABOUT DP/DR, IT'S JUST A NAME FOR SOMETHING THAT EXISTS SINCE HUMAN MANDKIND.

o by the way, mental illness doesn't exist ! Depression, fobias, anixiety disorder, schizophrenia are all OVERANALYZED by psychologists/scientists. Even someone with schizophrenia would feel mental healthy when he or she would be in their body.

You might have a big fear of not living in the present, guess what, if you would be in your body you would live in the present.

You might have a big fear of feeling unreal, the world feels unreal, people feel unreal, guess what, if you would be in your body everything becomes real because you wouldn't even think about this issue.

Read this over and over: NEGATIVITY IS FEAR, POSITIVITY IS THE FEELING WHEN YOU FEEL SAFE

For the ones with a trauma: While feeling in your body talk to yourself about your trauma. Pretend you're in the trauma again, in the situation again. While being in your body you will notice you will remember stuff again which you now think you forgot. You have to face your trauma to get out of this shit, there is no other way. It's very painful but you have to. Afterwards you will become an extremely powerful human being!

If you need more help send me an email at [email protected]


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## rui

That is one of the most honest posts I've seen here.

And one of the most true.

"Peter Levine" related stuff again. I'm seeing this over and over.

Body Awareness IS THE solution.

Wonderful post lostsould, you might want to search for that authors work and also search here and google about "Waking the tiger".

Many people here have the same line of reasoning.

DP/DR is a label, and its actually a bad one!

I'm calling mine "Lolita" from this day forward


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## jeremy

Lovely read


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## jen

I don't think so Brad.

This would be me trying to do the exercise: 'I have an elbow...?'


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## lostsoul

hey brad... my username isn't that ironic because i'm still extremely lost. But I'm trying with every atom in my body to recover. And I'm quite sure this is the way to deal with it. After I entered my body for 20 minutes I KNOW that this is the way out. I enter my body every day now and try to keep it there. But it needs a LOT of practice. You have to do this at least once a day for half an hour or more.

When you're in your body you will feel so peacefull and in the present. After doing this half an hour per day also try to be concious about your body the WHOLE day. Every second ask yourself what do I feel ? I feel sad, I feel my leg crossed on my other leg, I feel disappointed in life, I feel my feet getting hot etc.

Your thoughts aren't strong enough to find a solution for your problems.

Think about how happy and cheerful you were as a child. Don't you think there is no way in the whole universe to feel like this again just because you became older ? You can, everything is possible. Try to think gray instead of black and white. Children are totally in their body, they don't think about present and past. They don't have problems. 
If you would be 100% in your body you would be as happy as a child. Your breathing would be that of a baby.

DP/DR isn't enlightment because we are not using our mind, we are using our thinking. Buddhists want to be in their body so they use their mind, this is why the meditate. Your mind is 10 times more powerful then your thinking.

I know this all sounds like crap, because there are so many people saying spiritual stuff. But believe me, YOU ARE IN YOUR MIND. There will be some day that you will feel yourself shooting from your mind into your body. You will not feel one part of your body but you will feel the energy of your whole body.

I have problems with my breathing for 2 years now, I don't breath automaticly anymore because a high dose of stress and very heavy constant headaches. When I enter my body my breathing is as that of a baby, my headaches dissapear. I see a energy in my head which I pull down to my body. I first feel my ears pop open, then I feel my upper body going slowly to my belly, to my legs and feet. And then you're one again, you're not only mind but body and mind. This is what you want, believe me. If you keep this state nothing in life can hurt you anymore.

Don't take my word for it, just do it! You're in this shit for what ? 1 year, 2 years, 30 years ? Then what does that half an hour trying this matters ?

Sorry for my bad english, i'm a dutch guy..


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## lostsoul

Yes, it's really hard to keep trying to get out of this mess. But my username has nothing to do with this. I am still lost but trying to find solutions. For me this is probably the solution. It's not really meditating actually, because normal meditation gets me into a trance almost instantly, something that really doesn't make things better. This is something else then meditation, not sure how to label it; or perhaps better, lets not label it all...

One friend of mine had the same shit, he didn't know it had the label DP/DR but got out of it by concentrating on his body. Become fearless, get in your body, stop being melanchonic and you're out of this.

I think people here live in the past, or think they do.. thats the problem. But everything is solved when you're in your body. It's so simple..

Just be aware of everything you feel in your body during the day. This also helps against panic attacks.


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## Pablo

Very good post Lostsoul everybody should try to understand what you have written here, you know Buddhists say that there are three main centres a person can live from which are the head, the heart and the belly, most people live in the head, some live in the heart and few live in the belly, but the belly is the proper healthy place to function from. People with DP live 100% in the head.

although you make it sound like getting back into your body is an easy thing, unfortunately it is one of the hardest things in the world to do you have to undo a few hundred years of negative human conditioning and breakdown a lifetime of repressions, but it is possible and there are many techniques which can help, the one which I use is Chinese Qigong.


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## lostsoul

I'm not sure how difficult it is, I think it strongly depends per person. First of all, as in anything in life, you have to believe in it. Actually it's not something to believe in, because it really is true.

Try this: Take a very cold shower or go outside with few clothes when its really cold. Now feel your body. You will feel your whole body. This is the condition you have to get in for the rest of your life.

For me it's not too difficult, I enter my body once a day. I just repeat to myself that I'm save now, that there is nothing to fear, I try to feel emotions and my body and I get in it slowly. But while doing this you shouldn't be scared. That's it, don't fear that anything bad will happen and you're in. The difficult part is to stay in. At some point you will see your soul flying in your head again slowly. This you have to avoid.

After my first into-body experience I noticed that there is something in your throat/upper body area that is blockade. This is an emotional blockade which is closed to people who have 'DP/DR'. Get into your body and now try to close this blockade when you're in your body and you're done! You will enjoy your whole life with the biggest enjoyment.


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## jen

lostsoul said:


> After my first into-body experience I noticed that there is something in your throat/upper body area that is blockade. This is an emotional blockade which is closed to people who have 'DP/DR'. Get into your body and now try to close this blockade when you're in your body and you're done! You will enjoy your whole life with the biggest enjoyment.


Close something that is already closed?


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## DEUSX

LostSoul hit the nail on the head. Get out of your head and get back into your body. In other words: stop thinking start living. DP/DR is a symptom of anxiety; anxious people have a tunnel vision (hence the fog, problems with lights, fast moving objects etc.) and still tend to overanalyze the situation when the trigger is removed. There are some excellent posts here on the forum with the same message.


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## lostsoul

jen said:


> lostsoul said:
> 
> 
> 
> After my first into-body experience I noticed that there is something in your throat/upper body area that is blockade. This is an emotional blockade which is closed to people who have 'DP/DR'. Get into your body and now try to close this blockade when you're in your body and you're done! You will enjoy your whole life with the biggest enjoyment.
> 
> 
> 
> Close something that is already closed?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's closed in the wrong direction. The blockade is closed now so your energy is in your head, when you open this blockade and let the energy flow to your body again you have to close the blockade again so you stay in your body. You will notice that when you're in your body you will get this strong urge to let the energy flow to your head again. To prevent this from happening you need enough courage to block this blockade so the energy can't flow to your head again.

I know this all sounds very hocus-pocus and I am a very critical person who doesn't believe in any hocus-pocus crap, but don't judge it until you've been in your body and you know what i'm talking about.


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## Pablo

I have lost you, are you saying that you can pull your soul back into your body just by intention? I have tried a lot of strange alternative therapies which involve energy blocks with many trying to ground you in your body but all this sounds pretty crackers to me :?


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## lostsoul

Yes you can pull back your 'soul' or better your energy into your body by just being aware of your body. Be aware of your body constantly and you will get there. There's nothing wacky, spooky or anything about this, its simple science or whatever. If someone sees a car accident he or she will fly into his/her head. Most people will return into their body afterwards but we don't because we're scared. Fear of fear. So it's dead simple, focus on your energy, pull your energy downwards by what technique you want, you believe in.

One of the pretty 'newer' methods on the market is EFT. Guess what they do in this therapy ? Auto suggestion and body awareness. They say you should stroke over your chakra points and repeat senctences like 'im was bullied, tortured whatever but now im safe', repeat this loud to yourself and you will believe it. As far as I believe these chakra points in EFT are bullshit, but the auto suggestion and body touch are a good combination.

Concetrate on your body and you won't get panic attacks again! Concentrate on your body for the rest of your life and you'll be happy because you stop thinking.

Stop trying to find logical explanations to get out of 'DP/DR' because there are none. You can think 50 million times 'this is all bullshit, this is the reality' and you will even feel worse because you're thinking more and more. Your thoughts won't get you out of this state, they won't. Nothing else then your body energy can heal you. No medication can cure soul problems. You are the only person who can heal yourself. Start waiting for other people to cure you, like psychologists etc. because they won't. Instead of having psychologists have good, wise friends where you can tell your story/problems too.


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## Thayli

lostsoul said:


> Stop trying to find logical explanations to get out of 'DP/DR' because there are none. You can think 50 million times 'this is all bullshit, this is the reality' and you will even feel worse because you're thinking more and more. Your thoughts won't get you out of this state, they won't.


Sorry, i don't get it.
Wasn't it a thought of you to concentrate on your body?
Didn't it occur to you after overthinking 50 million other methods?
Maybe we have to think 50 million times on sth. before we consider it as useful or disturbing or whatever...many of my thougts i had aren't present anymore. I can't even tell what i thought.
These days i think about thinking and that freaks me out. I think my brain doesn't want to think anymore but i feel that i have to think some weird things before i can throw them off board. So i did with my sense of life thing...i came to terms that there isn't any sense. the sense of life is in my opinion life itself. so that freaked me again because i couldn't live the way i used to do.
i dont't know if this all makes sense to you all what i'm saying. don't mind, it doesn't for me either... :roll: 
(sorry my bad english...german guy)


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## lostsoul

Yes ofcourse it's something you think about after thinking 50 million times the same thing. I thought 50 million time about 1 thing and a zillion times about other things. And then I came up with a solution. And now i'm sharing what I think is the solution (and I received messages from people who recovered that this is a true theorie) because I want other people to cure too.

I'm not cured yet but I think I'm on the right path now.

It's all about fears. Obsessiveness are fears. Being not in your body are fears.

What are you afraid of ? Do things you are getting shocked by. For example I think I will get a heart attack when I go outside of the house (especially in the evening). Weird huh, that I get this feeling only when I'm not in the house... And I feel extra 'depersonalized' when I'm out of the house, I'm SCARED, I'm A COWARD.... thats the problem.

We're cowards who are in our minds because we're feared. If you want to get sane again stop being a coward, stop fearing and get in your body!!


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## DEUSX

Let me rephrase some theories posted here by lostsoul. When a human encounters something fearful he will try to flee. If that is not possible (because it really is not possible or because the person THINKS it's not possible) the fog (aka depersonalisation/derealisation) will set in. It's a normal reaction in most animals (including humans).

It's a chemical reaction in the body to calm down panick feelings. Purpose of this fog is to calm down the feelings of panick as they are not productive. It is a reaction to EXTREME stress (for most it will be anxiety). Once you are in this state you have a tunnel vision (hence the problem with fast moving objects, lights etc) and you can use your brain to find an escape route.

In extreme extreme stress situations (for example near death) DP/DR serves as a natural tranquilizer. In normal situations once the trigger is removed the DP/DR disappears. In chronic DP/DR there still is trigger. Somewhere. Rationally it is impossible to switch this trigger off - by using ratio (being stuck in the mind) the situation worsens.

Cure is indeed returning to the body. And by returning to the body I mean doing things in life that will reverse the process described above - feeling that there is no need for fear. Once you feel this your mind will accept this notion and will stop the production of the 'DP/DR hormone'. For most this will mean that they will have to face what they are avoiding (as this is the key to the trigger). This is crucial as this will provide you with the notion what has to be positively re-affirmed. If your DP is triggered by a fear of failure for example trying to make steps forwards and eliminting this fear in little steps will decrase DP significantly (as your brain is used to new stimuli and sees that nothing happens).


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## Thayli

So, going outside and doing the things we used to do, could be a way to find the trigger?
But why does it all shift so slowl?


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## Guyver-Gabriel

hey guys!

I hope you're all doing better. heres a quick thought i had throughout the day.I've been feeling 'different' lately...some say i got weirder...some say i got better.Personally I'd liek to think i'm doing better...i really dont know which one to believe,though...but here...a friend of mine told me that other people's opinion is just just worth that. nothing more than an opinion. no absolute truth comes out of a person's mouth, or mind. so you've got to get yourself something to believe in. a motive to live.to live on. but anyways, thats a nice thought but thats not what really made me write this post. I realized that I got my condition through a lot of thinking which was exagerated by the drugs i took...(thanks to good'ole MJ and a one time experience w/ cocaine- to list the two major one IMHO that got me where I am today). Realizing that made me understand that 
you 'think yourself into dp' but you have to 'trick yourself out of it'. as the original post stated, we retreated in our mind to shield ourselves from whatever dreadful thing we were not able/ready/willing to face.Therefore, if you want to recover, you have to pretend there's nothing wrong w/ you.do that everyday , and slowly the will to do little things will come back. dont fight those little needs or envies you feel you have.what?'feel' you have? BANG! your feelings are back.WHOA! awesome! but it'll most likely come out as a vague, blunt thingie you'll feel throughout your body and mind. so you'll need to do some major sorting out in what you think or feel. you've got to learn to say to yourself, 'its ok', 'i can do this or that'. the worse thing you can do is remain idle. wait for some godsent miracle to happen to you. you've got to muddle your way out of dp. you might feel it's to big to counter, you might be discouraged by the words of those who have lost their faith in recovery. but hey! it's nothing but opinions, a point of view! and, heck! even those who think they are doomed will recover. it takes a spark to light a huge fire. they havent found theirs yet.and that's about it!stay away from the illicit stuff as much as you can. personally, i like to smoke a J or drink a couple of beers from time to time.but only when I feel it'll be alright next morning.when i assume full responsibility of what might or might not occur the day after. 
i'mm just trying to make myself happy, and do my best to be as close of the idea of a good person i have in mind.

to sum it up, people, dont aim for 'cured' aim for 'better'. and enjoy every little victory you win over this b*tch as if it were the last.

Gabriel.


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## DEUSX

What is slow? Reducing DP/DR by 90% in three months after years of horror is rather quick I presume (my case).

Your body is accustomed to respond in a certain way (to produce hormones) - in order to re-programme your bodily sensations takes time.

If you hate giving presentations (for example) you can calm yourself down rationally (try to) or you can engage in doing it and re-programme the mind (that nothing wil happen). Or you can avoid it and look for answers why you are afraid of giving presentations (which is rather obvious if you Google it).


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## chiendeguerre

Hiya Fellas

I just landed from the Planet Pauluto and I'm looking for some intelligent life.

Seriously, I left a few posts on the intro section and I need some feedback to see if Im in the right dimension.

Someone speak to me?


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## mind^partizan

i wanted to post one question. Some of sufferers of DP or DR, whose experiences i read in this and oher website, say that they feel emotionless or like they dont feel anything. Does that mean they are not anxious? If we dont have anxiety any more, even in used-to-be stressful situations, is that the major step to recovery? Because if u dont feel the anxiety, stress anymore, u dont have panic attacks and there is little of what to fear, maybe that means we`re ON THE HIIIIGHWAYY to recovery?  In that case, as i understand, we would just need to stimulate our emotions, like trying new experiences, re-engaging in things that you like or finding new ones, having some fun, or the best - fall in LOVE. .  what do u think?


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## lostsoul

Have you ever heard this song of Morcheeba? 'Fear can stop you loving' ?
Well its true 

Simply because if you're afraid you will shoot into your head instead of your body. All your emotions are in your body, not in your head, this is 100% true. That's it... no medicine will help, no psychologist will help, no psychiatrist will help. Stop relying on outer things, start curing yourself. Stop spending days behind the computer, start getting out the house. How do you expect to have emotions when you don't get in touch with other people and their emotions ?

*Morcheeba - Fear and Love*
We always have a choice
Or at least I think we do
We can always use our voice
I thought this to be true
We can live in fear
Extend our selves to love
We can fall below
Or lift our selves above
Fear can stop you loving
Love can stop your fear
Fear can stop you loving
But it's not always that clear
I always try so hard
To share my self around
But now I'm closing up again
Drilling through the ground
Fear can stop you loving
Love can stop your fear
Fear can stop you loving
But it's not always that clear
I'd love to give my self away
But I find it hard to trust
I've got no map to find my way
Amongst these clouds of dust
Fear can stop you loving
Love can stop your fear
Fear can stop you loving
Love can stop your fear
Fear can stop you loving
Love can stop your fear
Fear can stop you loving
But it's not always that clear [4x][/b]


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## Englihs

I have often thought of what you have described in the first post as a good way to forcefully "kick" my brain back into a normal state, but first I need to find someone I really can connect with, which hasn't been anyone so far.

I've had a lot of talks with some of my longtime friends, but they really can't associate with me on such a personal level because of some fundamental differences we have. Honestly, I think a girlfriend would be the most cathartic of people to have such a powerful discussion with, but finding someone special who is understanding and caring enough would prove to be difficult. I would also consider using Ecstasy therapeutically in this setting would be of much benefit, providing it is relatively pure pill without meth or other adulterants.


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## Guest

^it really does open you up, Englihs...a really big BODY buzz and completely healthy. just make sure you have something to do while you are on it.

i wanted to respond to this post because i've been DP for my entire life and a large part of that has been due to my lack of confidence in standing alone and finding things that i like doing or at least want to try. i've done things--rode motocross, raced gocarts, and a lot of other sporting type things, but never with a point to it. i never really got the full effect when i wrecked or cleared a jump because i didn't feel the exilleration of it. even driving should be a stressful obstacle if you're worried enough about being in a crash or hitting someone else.

i believe that if you're in your body, you'll worry about how your body feels, and thus what it experiences in terms of health-related issues or things more related to what pumps adrenaline into your head.

i also wanted to ask...does anyone have the problem of having mental images interrupt them while you're trying to do something, meaning, do you sometimes watch your fantasies like movies in your head?


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## Space Addict

lostsoul said:


> Have you ever heard this song of Morcheeba? 'Fear can stop you loving' ?
> Well its true
> 
> Simply because if you're afraid you will shoot into your head instead of your body. All your emotions are in your body, not in your head, this is 100% true. That's it... no medicine will help, no psychologist will help, no psychiatrist will help. Stop relying on outer things, start curing yourself. Stop spending days behind the computer, start getting out the house. How do you expect to have emotions when you don't get in touch with other people and their emotions ?
> 
> *Morcheeba - Fear and Love*
> We always have a choice
> Or at least I think we do
> We can always use our voice
> I thought this to be true
> We can live in fear
> Extend our selves to love
> We can fall below
> Or lift our selves above
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> But it's not always that clear
> I always try so hard
> To share my self around
> But now I'm closing up again
> Drilling through the ground
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> But it's not always that clear
> I'd love to give my self away
> But I find it hard to trust
> I've got no map to find my way
> Amongst these clouds of dust
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> But it's not always that clear [4x][/b]


i have this Album and the song is so true. Also i watched the movie Apacolypto which stated a good point that "fear is a sickness"


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## goo goo

I belive this is what has happened to me, where i am not in my body anymore. However, i have visual snow and floaters and i never had these before. Its very annnoying and i dont know if it would go away with this method.

Any thoughts?


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## lostsoul

Some questions..

Do you think you think too much ?
Do you think you analyze yourself too much ?

I think you do. You think too much because you're afraid. If you're afraid you don't thrust yourself or other people because you think they could hurt you. Because of this you're thinking too much because you don't thrust yourself. This has to do with feeling safe.
If you would feel safe you would go into your body again and you would stop thinking so damn much. This overthinking causes you to think you have 'visual snow' or it's a self-protection of your body/mind.

Please try getting into your body again. Buy Peter Levine's books. I just bought them and they're great.

You need to thrust your "felt sense" again. Which means you have to thrust on your body, what you feel with your body. If you thrust this completely you will start to feel again.

Scientific books about depression say that depressed people are 70% in their minds/head and 30% in their body. I think people with 'dp/dr' are 95% in their minds and 5% in their body.
Change this and you get cured.

I'm not cured yet, but im working on it. I cured myself one time within 30 minutes of body scanning. Unfortunately I shot up to my head again. When I was in my body I never felt this happy before, I was even thankful to the ones causing my trauma so I had this amazing experience. Getting back into your body is one of the most magical things on earth.

I wish you all the luck in the world. And please contact me if you have questions.


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## goo goo

Well i do think alot but before i was locked in my head, i did this too. Its the quality and depth of the thinking thats changed really. I can think really deeply now whereas i couldent before because i wasnt experinced enough in life.

I think you are right when you talk about the mind/body stuff. It does feel like that and when i concentrated on the outside world i entered the body and my oh my i knew that it was the normal way to be. We miss out on so much because of this, but i accept that because thats what is happening now and i need to fix that and not worry about it.

I think that being on the computer so much really doesnt help because its very mind numbing for me and i am practacally in my head all the time. Its got worse over time due to pc use so i have to stop that.

I just find it hard to concentrate on feeling with my body because it takes up so much energy i feel. And i cant do anything else but concentrate on my body because it also takes up all of my focus.

Thanks for your kind words. 8)


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## lostsoul

Thanks for your reply.

Please understand that the reason why you always thought to much was fear. At some point this fear gets too big for you to handle and then you completely lock yourself in your head. Overthinking & fear causes emotional numbness. You just stopped trusting in yourself and others. Because of this you don't thrust your "felt sense" anymore. It takes a lot of courage to just trust in your body feelings.

When fear becomes too big you just let your thoughts take over control to protect you. For example, when you get hurt big time by some human you don't trust any human anymore, you're afraid to get hurt again. Because of this you analyze people to see if they can hurt you somehow. By thought analyzing instead of emotional analyzing you stop emotions.


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## goo goo

lostsoul,

I have to correct you in saying that i wasnt always fearing people before this all happened. But i feel that just now i do over analyze, so your technique would work.

Speaking of your technique, could you let me know how you do it? And if it works then i know that my body energy is messed up and its all in my head mostly, and then i will belive all that stuff... i kinda do anyway but it would be great if you could let me know 

Craig


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## annie_oohs

Hi to all you brave souls,

I am completely new to this forum and this is my first post but have been so comforted over a testing xmas from reading your posts and especially that of lostsoul re The Body Scan solution.

I have been dissociated for just over 7 years - 5 of which I was in therapy - but only found a name for this suffering last week when I found this site. When I googled my symptoms over the first 4 years I got nothing I could relate to and my therapist at the time never would give me any kind of diagnosis (I may well email her a link to the site with a rather p***ed off note to go with it).

Though I haven't ever been fully 'back' since the BIG ONSET I never stopped living life, socialising, working and often spent whole therapy sessions on The Mask I lived behind. I've hardly told a soul about this condition in 7 years because just discussing it makes it worse. Since the onset brought on by big trauma (I had little episodes in the years leading up) I have had several other traumas which send me deeper or set me back.

I would like to say that the closest I've ever been to being fully present was whilst on a retreat and fast in Thailand during daily mediation and yoga. However the moment I got back to family (the heart if the problem) and London, stresses would bring on depression, an eating disorder and the 'floaters' that disturb my vision would make it hard to make things out and I'd feel completely out of my body, though not emotionless.

All this while I held down a job, got married, am divorcing, 'acted normal' but felt miserable, cut off and desperate inside. I am now living and working in Cyprus and am finally starting to deal with this trauma (I am having biweekly hypnoanalysis and reflexology) and live a life without stresses - except those that I create and are within me.

Last week I body scanned while reading lostsoul's post as I sat at the PC and felt immediately more 'here' - I have been doing this daily and things get worse and better daily as a result but I have had a headache hanging round ever since and I wonder if this could be part of the process of 'coming back', or is nothing to do with it?

Has anyone else experienced headaches with this disorder or with a shift in symptoms? I have other theories I would like to run by you all regarding BARBARA BRENNAN'S theories on the schizoid character strategy but I will save these for another time.

As someone who has experienced both deep and currently shallow levels of DP/DR I know how it can shift and sometimes fade to barely noticeable all within hours. Don't give up hope that YOUR shift is just around the corner. I truly believe there is a reason I chose to hide in here and I will find one to leave also.

You're all amazing
xxxxxxxx


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## lostsoul

Dear annie_oohs,

What a wonderful post full of love and positivity! About the headache, I have no idea if its normal while 'body scanning'. Please try the following; Do a body scan and at the same time think about the things you don't want to face. I think the reason we got in this state is because we don't want to relate the trauma with ourselves. Like 'No, this didn't happen to ME! I imagined my life to be completely perfect! This is not possible!'. We are big perfectionists who can't handle pain (sorry for the generalization).

I don't think you can think your way out of dp/dr (certainly not me since my thinking is completely detached).

I can't do this somehow, but the advice I got several times is to laugh about your trauma and to make a fool out of yourself.

annie_oohs, i would love to chat more with you. Can you add me to your yahoo list ? My ID is johan_struijk


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## northmonk

Lost soul I feel your posts are the most honest and helpful posts I have read in this entire website! Theres no bullshit only rock hard common sense and healing in the suggestions you make. I do a breathwork therapy and when I do it which is every few days I can actually feel the energy current/lifeforce you mention, (which in my case got stuck up in my head from smoking dope), moving down into my body and circulating there. When I started using the breathing, the energy would only move down from the head a short way, now I have it swirling around in my belly when I breathe.

Theres some point I feel where the mind meets the body and they integrate there and emotions arise, this point in the body which as you say ideally would be in the belly, can become "loose" and you can float up into the mind and get chronically stuck up there as in DP/DR. The journey I FEEL is to get that lifeforce/energy current and anchor it down permanently in the body, down low in the belly region. Thats what I'm working on personally right now, because of years of overthinking and analysing though, it takes time to unlearn the habit of going into the mind to try and think oneself through a situation and to feel it instead. Its basically unlearning a very bad self defeating habit and replacing it with a 
very healthy self enriching one which at first you have to conciously focus on until it becomes second nature and then you can let go of it as a concious act as it will be automatic all the time then. Practice anything like yoga, tai chi or exercise in general that encourages body awareness and feeling plus do anything that gets the emotions flowing again for you. Replace thinking ones way through life people with feeling and all will be well........including you! Godspeed to you all


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## Guest

okay so you just lie down. and you focus on what emotions? negative ones? ones that you feel? what if all you feel is terrible bad feelings. you are supposed to focus on them?!? that would make me feel like shit. What if they continute indefinately for me? Is there some point where you feel them enough, and then you start to feel good emotions?

Very confused.....can somebody please explain the basic steps of this peter levine stuff for me again.

Eric


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## lostsoul

Ok, this excersise isn't mentioned in peter levine's books because its one of my own.

First you need to focuson your body for lets say 15 minutes. Concentrate on your toes, back of your feet, etc. etc. Feel it! Now concentrate on the things you are denying. This isn't negative but very positive. To accept the things you're denying is extremely positive.

Just experiment with it, you will see the results if you take it seriously and have a bit of faith.


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## goo goo

How do you accept what you are denying if you dont know all the things you are denying. How would you find out? If you try to think about it all, then would that not make it worse?


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## Pablo

It pretty much impossible to accept what you are denying through pure effort and body attention because what you are denying is unconscious and you cant force yourself to make what is unconscious conscious because if something is unconscious you dont even have a clue where to start looking to make it conscious.


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## lostsoul

Have you tried my excersise before making this post ?

Goo goo: I don't know all the things I deny either, therefore I just take one of the things I deny. If you're focused on your body and think of one thing you deny you will notice the effect it has on you.

One of the things I discovered which is of a huge importance in these excersises is that works better when you're with someone who you feel safe with. For example these excersises had a big effect on me when I was in bed lying next to my girlfriend. Feeling safe is the most important thing for all of us. You can't get into your body when you don't feel safe enough. So try to find someone who can be at least in the same room as you when doing these excersises, girlfriend, psychologist, parent or anything, which you trust.


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## IMSojourner

I think this is a good point, and I think what lostsoul's getting at is not unlike what "integration of emotions" is about. After all, every emotion that we feel in our mind has its initial expression IN THE BODY. We have cut ourselves off from the natural, God-given method of living life -- as body, mind, and soul.

In psychotherapy, you can integrate your emotions. Of course there's no "getting in your body." We ARE in our body, but we have closed the doors to ourselves by repressing our emotions. We simply do not allow our bodies to do one of their most fundamental jobs -- ensure that we are in a state of equilibrium unless danger from without really and truly threatens us.

Unlock the unconscious mind and you begin to integrate your emotions consciously and then can (1) feel immediate relief, (2) perhaps choose NOT to repress emotions in the future.

Our emotions also help ensure equilibrium; they are holy and good, just like the body. Yes, the body heals us, but we must unite the parts of us that have split off from one another. Psychodynamic or psychoanalytic psychotherapy can help in the process of integration of our emotions.

Qualified therapists have lots and lots of good training and they know what they are doing.


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## lostsoul

Thank you for your post. I agree with everything except one.

You are saying there's not such thing like "getting into your body", I'm sorry but I have to controverse you on that. Or let me rephrase it "Getting into the rest of your body".

What I experienced when I was doing this body scan is that a emotional blocade at the end of my throat just snapped. Then the most beautiful thing happened. It was like a very warm breath was filling the rest of my body. I just went from my head to the rest of my body. And thats the key.


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## Guest

Do you see this as a cure for dp, or is it just reliving the symptoms.
Does it help with anxiety?


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## IMSojourner

lostsoul said:


> Thank you for your post. I agree with everything except one.
> 
> You are saying there's not such thing like "getting into your body", I'm sorry but I have to controverse you on that. Or let me rephrase it "Getting into the rest of your body".
> 
> What I experienced when I was doing this body scan is that a emotional blocade at the end of my throat just snapped. Then the most beautiful thing happened. It was like a very warm breath was filling the rest of my body. I just went from my head to the rest of my body. And thats the key.


We are in our body, so I am just looking at it slightly differently, but basically I know what you mean, and I agree, of course. It's what's behind all relaxation techniques, yoga, etc. It's a truth you've personally discovered in your own body that it's possible to live (uncomfortably) without the realization and recognition of the unity that is natural to human beings -- the unity of body, mind, and spirit. It's ours to claim as our birthright, and you seem to have discovered how to correct things that prevented you from realizing this. It's a wonderful thing you've discovered about your own body, and it fits right in to everything we know about the human experience of reality.

What you had been doing was freezing out all experience from that part of you that already knew you were a unity. I think you've pointed out mainly that truth: we are body, mind, and spirit. And to connect to that is what health is.


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## IMSojourner

Im still the same person said:


> Do you see this as a cure for dp, or is it just reliving the symptoms.
> Does it help with anxiety?


I just posted in the main discussion area a few minutes ago, so I will suggest you read that post:

http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10074

------------------

Yes, it helps with anxiety, because anxiety is the conscious experience of fear. The fear is unconscious -- we can't access it at all until we are in the process of allowing our unconscious mind to reveal itself. You must have a trained professional to accompany you, though. You cannot really do this on your own. It's just too scary, frankly. But a therapist who is highly trained in helping people like this will be there to assure you that you are safe and will encourage you to do the things in therapy that will actually help you.

Our anxiety has a cause that we simply can never determine on our own, because that cause is well hidden (at our command long ago) by us. The desire to uncover unconscious content will be of tremendous help in your therapy, because you can instruct your unconscious mind to lay off with the defenses for now because you WANT to know what you buried long ago in order to look at it NOW in your conscious mind. When you learn your unconscious fears, you can look at them and deal with them in your CONSCIOUS MIND. You couldn't do that when you were six years old or three years old, so you did the next best thing -- you repressed things that scared you. Well, they still scare you today, but they are scaring the toddler in you, not the adult. Once you know what is there, you can look at it TODAY, with all you know as an adult, and you can put the scary things of long ago into a perspective that does not scare you as an adult now. That should put to rest the fears of the toddler, who has grown up to be you and now understands things like an adult. But do read that post of mine.


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## lostsoul

hmm.. Although I think their is a whole lot of truth in your post I don't agree with you fully.

I really do think we are detached from our body. I've been to the point of complete cure after 15 minutes of body scan and then I noticed how it is to be in your body. I actually felt the emotional blockade being ripped in pieces and energy flowing from my head to my body again. So in my opinion I do think we are locked up in our heads. Later on I read a book of Peter Levine where he says the exact same (not that that proves anything though).

One thing a friend of mine told me once "you're so busy thinking about life that you forget to live"  I think he's quite right.

I just came back from Romania back to Holland and from this point I will move to amsterdam in a few days and really build up a life there. Normal work, normal friends, normal ritme. Although it seems impossible for me to do this because I'm extremely tired and totally alienated I will do this because I need to to be able to cure. I'm 24 and I don't want to get out of this dream in 20 years, I will fight, fight and fight more to become a normal, happy, healthy person. And no matter what, I will survive and this thing will go away. Soon. Stop being a victim, stop having self-pity and start fighting and having discipline.
Get normal friends where you feel safe with, safety is what we need big time. Psychologists, psychiatrists and doctors will only accomplish that you feel more sick, because its a confirmation. If you would think you are a healthy, normal person you wouldn't see them right ?


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## Thayli

i don't think that psychologist make you feel more sick.the truth is we are sick if we weren't, against what are we supposed to fight then?
When i had my panic attacks 4 years ago (at that time without dp) a psychologist helped me out very quickly.sure, the entire overcoming work was up to me, but he showed me the way.
so, i wouldn't disclaim the idea of seeing a psychologist.
But with the other things you mentioned, i agree...

as buddha said: "there is no way to happiness. hapiness is the way"


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## lostsoul

Thayli, have you noticed the amount of hypochondriacs on this board ? Do you think it's a good thing for hypochondriacs to have confirmed by going to psychologists that they're sick ? We're not even really sick, we just have symptoms.

Anyway, I came just to this board to try to help you guys with my experiences and I will leave it to this. I don't think coming to a dp selfhelp forum will cure me, especially me as being a hypochondriac. So therefore this was my last message.

I hope my posts were/will be helpfull for all of you.

Have a beautiful and dp-free 2007!


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## Guest

I wish you good luck man, I did read a lot of your posts, I didn't agree with everything you said, BUT, it seems you did help a few people out, so I guess it was worth all the criticism you had to put up with.

Good on ya...u bent een goede man

G.


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## Guest

Take care lostsoul.


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## Cam

For god sakes lostsoul just post something, I see you lurking around in the background all the time.
You say you left the site but you are here all the time.
I think you helped a lot of people as well
So start typing fella.

Cam


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## lostsoul

Chameleon,

I have to admit leaving these boards was more difficult then I thought. It's hard because here are all the people who are in the same mess and know what im going through.

I've been quite busy these days. I now have three jobs + im a volunteer in a local hospital.

Tonight I started my work as a waiter in a restaurant (in amsterdam). It was soooooo difficult. People look at me like im a retard because my eyes are that of an alien. Also I have to try to focus a lot, there were 50 people this evening and I have to take orders every time. I can't even hear them because of my tinnitus. But I managed to survive the evening, very difficult, but i did. Later on I was talking with my colleages and they wanted me to tell something about myself, so I told them I did 8 studies. I started to notice I started to brag a lot about myself because I have such a low selfesteem and I hate people to think Im a complete morron (which many people do who dont know me).

Do you guys have the same problem ?


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## Cam

Hey Lostsoul,

Nice to hear from you man.
3 jobs, what are you, some sort of gluten for punishment?
I feel like a lazy sod now :lol: 
You are right though, it is hard to leave these sites.
for me, its because I'm a bit of a loner, sure I have my family, but I
don't really have a group of friends, being on this site makes me feel like I belong to a group, other than my family.
We all need to feel like we are part of a community, and this site is like a little community.

I don't really over compensate for my low self esteem by bragging,
I just try and hide it with stupid gags that end up hurting people most
times.

Cam.


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## FloatingRoberto

Hey lostsoul, glad you have your jobs. In what restaurant are you waiter? Hopefully a classy one in the centre or south, because the tips can really make it worthwhile.

Bragging and marginalizing myself are two of my hobbies, though I try to give a honest yet positive view of myself lately. 
How do you brag? Do you actually have done 8 studies and forgot to mention you flunked or is the whole story made up?
I'm of the first category, proudly tell about my studies and stuff but forget to mention I study half speed and dropped the second study. Psychobiology at the UVA... how do I grave that knowledge now. Too bad it only fueled my analytitis.
On the other hand I bagatalize the things that went well and cost me lots of effort, but I still do that in a way as if "it was peanuts". So I marginalize in a bragging way or jokingly skip subjects that truly hurt me in the depth my soul. I'm detoxing from sarcasm too. 

A totally different thing, do you mind drinking a cuppa tea sometime in the city? I'd really love to speak another DP'd person.


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## lostsoul

No I actually did 9 studies, not 8, so i wasnt bragging. But most of them I didn't finish, I just keep switching basicly everything, studies, jobs etc.

People, all please note the following. DP/DR is bullshit. Call it whatever you want to call it, but not DP/DR. All we are doing is dreaming, nothing more, nothing less. And this is very common. You have to feel your body again, then the dreaming is over.

There are several ways to get into your body. Get some ice and put it in your hand. Have a very good sleep (I use melatonine for this). Do a body scan. Go kickboxing. Do some yoga. Medicines are never the solution. Never. They can cover the problem, but the problem stays. No medicine exists that can pull you back in your body. None. Your chakra's (especially your throat chakra) have to be healed.

For the people who don't believe this. Check how much you are in the past or future. Your mind is always in the past or the future. Your body is always in the moment. Your body is heaven, your mind is hell. There must be a good balance between those.


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## lostsoul

This night I had a second experience like this. I did the same ritual as before. I called that friend (who studied psychology) and had a chat with him for two hours. Then when I went to bed I started to focus on my left thumb and middlefinger while pushing them together. I placed the nail of my thumb in the nail of my middlefinger so I could feel the pressure/heat better. At the same time while feeling this heat I scanned my body a bit.

After about 15 minutes something started to happen. First I felt some tingling in my left leg. This became more and more. I felt the blood flowing through this leg. Huge tingling. My head started to crack, this didn't happen for quite a long time. It started to crack harder. Then first my nose popped open. My ears popped open. All my senses started to pop open.
I felt something in my throat, energy. All of a sudden my whole body seemed to come alive. I felt all the energy through my body. Then as the first time my heart went extremely fast and loud. 
The previous time when this happened I told myself to keep relaxed, that nothing would happen.

Now I got too scared of this huge power that I don't know anything of. Even I chose rather to be dead or alive then be in this shit somehow I'm still too scared of dying. So at some point I stopped.

This evening I will do the same again. My friend will come and we'll talk for a few hours and I will do the same process again, I hope this time without being too afraid.

This is the way out. People with 'dp/dr' are afraid of dying (or becoming insane, or both), thats why we stay high in our body. So if you have enough courage while your heart is going 180-200 you will get out of it and your soul/energy will float back to your body.


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## Guest

I haven't read every single post on this thread, however I think this exercise will benefit a lot of people and I would love others to try this out and report how it makes them feel. I'm going to start doing this myself starting tonight. I already did something similar by realising every touch, taste, sound, smell etc... You've got nothing to lose.


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## lostsoul

I'm currently doing ELW in the netherlands, which means Emotional Body Work... perhaps there is something similar in other countries. Also a good try.. But most importantly, besides doing things like this you just have to function (i know its tough) and not be to busy with this thing because it only makes it worse..


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## Guest

lostsoul said:


> Have you ever heard this song of Morcheeba? 'Fear can stop you loving' ?
> Well its true
> 
> Simply because if you're afraid you will shoot into your head instead of your body. All your emotions are in your body, not in your head, this is 100% true. That's it... no medicine will help, no psychologist will help, no psychiatrist will help. Stop relying on outer things, start curing yourself. Stop spending days behind the computer, start getting out the house. How do you expect to have emotions when you don't get in touch with other people and their emotions ?
> 
> *Morcheeba - Fear and Love*
> We always have a choice
> Or at least I think we do
> We can always use our voice
> I thought this to be true
> We can live in fear
> Extend our selves to love
> We can fall below
> Or lift our selves above
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> But it's not always that clear
> I always try so hard
> To share my self around
> But now I'm closing up again
> Drilling through the ground
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> But it's not always that clear
> I'd love to give my self away
> But I find it hard to trust
> I've got no map to find my way
> Amongst these clouds of dust
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> Love can stop your fear
> Fear can stop you loving
> But it's not always that clear [4x][/b]


I agree with this. I went on holiday with my boyfriend and I was DR'd to phuck. I couldn't feel love or any emotion, but as soon as things got physical (not sex, but closeness) my emotions came back. I allowed myself to be there in the moment and enjoy each kiss I shared with my Boyfriend. Just being skin to skin and kissing was enough to bring back the emotion of love. This has come and gone a few times since then. Feel with your heart. Be there in the moment. I've started doing this and today I feel a great improvement. Next thing I need to do is control my OCD.


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## ihavemessedupdreams

coward? i dont fucking think so

ive been through fucking hell. ive never been one to look for a fight but when it came to me i always finished it

the only time i have ever backed down was twice both times i had a knife pulled out on me
once was grade6 the other time was less then a year ago

we where all smoking weed in a garage listening to music (i was there with someone im related to)
the rest of the people i only met 1 of them once
he had a big machette that he carried around he had it right in front of him actully
and i read his body languge he looked at his friend, looked down at his knife then kind of "up'd his head"
in my direction. then he went over to my "relative" who is also his. and took the knife put it up to his neck while staring at me
im not an idiot this guy is either going to stab me or is playing mind games
felt intimidated by my presence? so felt because he was around his 'crew' he had to "fix it"
either way im "stoned" and I dont do drugs plus the DP. and when I smoke weed my dp fades almost by 90%
so I played sick. I got up and said "holy fuck, I really dont feel well i feel really sick"
and left

i dont think im a coward
i do think im overly sensative emotional caring epmthatic
forgiving

apparently those are all bad quailtys in this world.

all tho i know how to turn completly cold and hide all of those things and be the opposite

somthing very important i think everyone here should know or heres a reminder anyway

its easy to goto the darkside and when you live by the knife you die by the knife

I think its best to treat other people how you want to be treated
and thats about it

even tho i know the darkside is tempting its not the way to go!
this has been my life lesson


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## Mollusk

ihavemessedupdreams said:


> coward? i dont flower* think so


i don't think this thread was meant to say that if you have dp you are coward. I think it has to do with your unconscious responses to stress, environment etc... standing up to or for people has nothing to do with that.


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## ihavemessedupdreams

im not pointing fingers at the post starter his post is fine with me
but he did say we are cowards?

maybe i viewed his definition of coward wrong? oh well..


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## Mollusk

ihavemessedupdreams said:


> im not pointing fingers at the post starter his post is fine with me
> but he did say we are cowards?
> 
> maybe i viewed coward wrong? oh well..


I'm not sure i didn't read the whole thread. The parts i read kind of said that to get over this thing we may have to be stronger or more disciplined mentally. I suppose that could be read as being weak or a coward in the first place, but i think most of us would agree that we aren't in this position because we are cowards.

I am a believer in that we create much of own reality so if you really believe in this solution than maybe it can work.


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## ihavemessedupdreams

i dont look at this as a soulution
i just read it took what he said and viewed it a certain way, maybe thats not what he was saying maybe it was?

"to get over this thing we may have to be stronger or more disciplined mentally"

i really dont know - i figure if thats the case then dp already taught me that

so i just wanted to write out what i thought about that.
ive had dp for 7 years and i think the only real soulution is to go see a professional and work through whatever you may think is the cause of your depersonalization. mine is trauma


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## Mollusk

ihavemessedupdreams said:


> ive had dp for 7 years and i think the only real soulution is to go see a professional and work through whatever you may think is the cause of your depersonalization. mine is trauma


i would go with that then.

This thing seems so different for everyone. some say its physiological- that weed, drugs or something sparked it and they were perfectly happy before that. some say mental/emotional trauma spraked it. some say it developed over time from personal issues and conditions. some even say its spiritual. Some like me have some of all of the above and are confused as hell.

I think you kinda gotta find your own method of recovery and pursue the sh*t out of it.


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## lostsoul

Some things I say are there to stimulate you..


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## ihavemessedupdreams

that was obvious


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## Guest

lostsoul said:


> Some things I say are there to stimulate you..


I have the same effect on you fookers* too :mrgreen:

*jolly good folk.


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## dragnink

Positivity is very important, but I can tell you that it is impossible to "feel" positive when your body and brain are out of sync because of health problems coming from your gut, bacterial overgrowth, amalgam fillings poisoining your bloodstream, seratonin and dopamine levels out of whack, etc. We cannot will ourselves to be positive when our bodies do not have the proper fuel to heal and get your system regulated properly/running optimally. Check my signature..


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## jhrochester

mind^partizan said:


> i wanted to post one question. Some of sufferers of DP or DR, whose experiences i read in this and oher website, say that they feel emotionless or like they dont feel anything. Does that mean they are not anxious? If we dont have anxiety any more, even in used-to-be stressful situations, is that the major step to recovery? Because if u dont feel the anxiety, stress anymore, u dont have panic attacks and there is little of what to fear, maybe that means we`re ON THE HIIIIGHWAYY to recovery?  In that case, as i understand, we would just need to stimulate our emotions, like trying new experiences, re-engaging in things that you like or finding new ones, having some fun, or the best - fall in LOVE. .  what do u think?


Emotionless is worse, my friend. Always belive it. I personally would much rather go back to the anxiety and fear and constant sense of dread. At least then i could feel something. Trust me, nothing is worse than anything else. Especially if it's in your head


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## utterlyadrift23

I have really tried hard to understand what exactly is required of us to use lostsouls technique but I am completely baffled at what I am supposed to do. Anyone care to explain?


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## lostsoul

Well its a year later now, I hope you dont still have DP but if you do please search for bodyscan meditation on google and I think you will understand.


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## Positive

awesome post !

im gonna give it a shot


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## Findyourself1997

Your floaters went away ?


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