# If you think you're going crazy you're not??



## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

I don't buy it. I really am crazy and I know it. I guess it all depends on what you think "crazy" is. I think it means "not normal". And normal to me is having normal thought patterns.... which I obviously do not.

I'm freaking out again. I was on another schizophrenia website and I am almost convinced I have it. When I mention schizophrenia to a doctor they ask if I see or hear things that aren't there. When I say no... they completely dismiss the possibility that I may have it.

But isn't it true not all schizophrenics hallucinate? Do you HAVE to have a psychotic episode like that to have it. You know.... catching things in their earliest stages is always best... and I think I've caught it.... but these doctors are just gonna sit back and wait for me to start seeing sh*t before they believe me!

I seriously need to be commited to a mental institution. There's one by my house but I can't miss work. And it would really suck to use my vacation time to lock myself up in the loony bin. I don't know if I could do that, no matter how crazy I am.


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

I agree with nikki. What you have sounds like just a hell of alot of anxiety. Your so worried about going insane that your nearly driving yourself insane with worry. Ive been there too.

The best adivice i can give you is try not to worry about it. The fear of going insane is one of the number 1 symptoms of anxiety disorders. If you had shizophrenia you would have delusions, audio or visual hallucinations and etc.

Even if you are going insane theres nothing you can do about it so stop worrying.


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## Television (Aug 2, 2005)

It really is hard to see from the inside, and not to be blunt, but your post is a little ridiculous. Believe me, I have completely been there... when you think every medical proffessional you talk to is just doing a shoddy job, and they're all wrong and so on and so forth. Believe me, they arent wrong. Anxiety is so convincing, and it is never as convincing when you are in "panic" mode, which it seems like you are. I mean, i can be sitting alone in my house, but when i start to panic I become convinced that I've somehow breathed in pot smoke or some other ridiculous excuse. I think you really need to look at whats going on in your life right now and figure out what your mind is trying to distract you from.


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## widescreened (Jun 22, 2005)

If you were schizophrenic,you wouldnt be aware.You would be living and acting your delusions without being aware you were deviating from the norm.
When your back is to the wall and your anxiety levels are high,you kind of tunnel into a mode of panic,where you believe absolutely anything and everything is wrong with you,but at least you are aware of your plight.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm gonna go with widescreened on this one. Schizophrenics have a lack of insight that what they are experiencing is abnormal. It's probably similar to how you don't question a lot of things in your dreams, like how you live in a different house or that it's a year later from now or you have a different job or whatever premise you take for granted in the dream.

My therapist gave me some materials to read and they basically went over how people with anxiety disorders very commonly worry about schizophrenia. My anxiety basically started when I was worried about some mild insomnia and I thought I'd go crazy from it.


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

i agree that imediatly dismissing you as not having schizophrenia just because you don't hallucinate is unproffesional and ignorant of any doctor. There is no one symptom exclusive to schizophrenia. I have schiz and i do hallucinate, have delusions, etc., but i know quite a few schizophrenics who have only delusions and no hallucinations.

In the diagnostic criteria, there are 5 main symptoms of schizophrenia, a person only needs two of these to fit the criteria, or even only one of these if it is of a bizarre delusion(s) or auditory hallucinations keeping up a running commentary on the person, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
the five symptoms are:

delusions
hallucinations
Catatonia or grossly disorganized behavior
Disorganized speech
Negative symptoms (such as Apathy, flat affect, poor hygiene, etc. )

so basically, if you had only disorganized speech and negative symptoms, you could qualify for the diagnosis of Disorganized schizophrenia. Or say if you had paranoid Delusions and negative symptoms... again, you could qualify as paranoid schizophrenia. And if your only symptoms were bizarre delusions (such as believing the FBI has implanted a mind controlling device in your head) You could qualify.

Also,there are five different types of schizophrenia: Paranoid, Catatonic, Disorganized, residual, and undifferentiated.

I also agree that the "if you think your going crazy, then your not" idea is bullshit half of the time. And yes, The word "crazy" these days can mean anything you want it to, but what it is suppose to mean is that you are losing touch with reality/are psychotic. And psychotic symptoms consist of hallucinations and delusions. Many people have it in their heads that all people with psychosis, or people with schizophrenia, don't ever realize they are "crazy", and instead may believe everyone else is crazy. And while this is often true, especially in severe cases, lots of people are aware of there psychotic symptoms..especially in the early stages. For example, when i was in the early stage of developing schizophrenia, i was very aware something was going wrong. As my delusions developed, i did eventually develope the lack of awareness often found in schizophrenia. I believed nothing was wrong with me and that everyone else around me was just crazy themselves..or oblivious.
And if a person's only psychotic symptom is hallucinations, and no delusions, then they can be completly aware that what they are hearing, seeing, feeling, isn't real. Not all people with psychosis have delusions. Lack of awareness of illness, known as anosognosia occurs in about half of people with schizophrenia.

what is it that makes you believe you have or are developing schizophrenia? Do you have paranoia, any of the negative symptoms?, disorganized speech/thought? Any Catatonic or disorganized behavior?

Also keep in mind that even if you experience such things as paranoia and negative symptoms, this can be a result of a number of other conditions; depression, bipolar disorder, certain personality disorders, drug use, etc, etc. So having psychosis or any of these other symptoms doesn't automatically mean you have schizophrenia.

Try not to get to overly-obsessive about it all because i did the same thing when i was becoming ill and before i knew a lot about schizophrenia and other mental illnesses, i at some point believed i had just about every disorder in the book. It was very stressful and confusing. You may or may not have schizophrenia, but even if you do, there is treatment and it's not the end of the world. Medication helps a lot. When im on my meds, i have no delusions, almost no voices and very little paranoia, still some thought disruption and negative symptoms, but it's not so bad.

If you feel like you really,really need to be in the hospital, then you should go, especially if you are at risk of hurting yourself or others or are unable to care for yourself. I've been in the hospital a number of times myself and it can be helpful.

I hope i've helped a little. If you want to ask me anything else go right ahead. Good luck


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

okay everyone, i'm just going to say this one more time since many of you might not read my previous really long reply:

Not all schizophrenics experience lack of awareness--Known as Anosognosia. Especially in the beginning stages of the illness. This really irritates me that so many people ,especially doctors, still believe this is always true in every case of schizophrenia, because it makes them immeditaly dismiss the possibility of schiz if you go to them and say "I think i have schizophrenia" 
People with a slow-developing case of schizophrenia 
are usually aware somethings going wrong in the
beginning stages. As it progresses, they often lose insight, but not always. It depends on the symptoms. If the schizophrenic person's only symptom is hearing voices, and they have no delusions of the voices being real ,then they may always remain aware of their illness.

It's generally the one's with severe delusions that have lack of awareness and as i hope people know..not all schizophrenics suffer from delusions.

Also, someone who does become unaware of their illness can regain insight of it once they are treated with meds...i did.

maybe try visiting a schizophrenia forum (such as Schizophrenia.com) and ask them if they were/are aware of their condition. I promise you about half of them will tell you they at least were aware in the beginning stages


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

Thank you blackwinded! See people I have a grip and am not being ridiculous.

Thank you all for your advice. It is true, I have major anxiety issues, but I have other problems as well. Which may or may not include Schizophrenia but you guys are right when you say I shouldn't worry about it.



blackwinded said:


> what is it that makes you believe you have or are developing schizophrenia? Do you have paranoia, any of the negative symptoms?, disorganized speech/thought? Any Catatonic or disorganized behavior?


I'll copy and paste some...

Cognitive Symptoms of Schizophrenia
Cognitive symptoms refer to the difficulties with concentration and memory. These can include: 
disorganized thinking 
slow thinking 
difficulty understanding 
poor concentration 
poor memory 
difficulty expressing thoughts 
difficulty integrating thoughts, feelings and behavior

Catatonic behaviors are characterized by a marked decrease in reaction to the immediate surrounding environment, sometimes taking the form of motionless and apparent unawareness

Other symptoms sometimes present in schizophrenia but not often enough to be definitional alone include affect inappropriate to the situation or stimuli, unusual motor behavior (pacing, rocking), depersonalization, derealization, and somatic preoccupations. (* I have DP and I pace around a lot)

Affective flattening is the reduction in the range and intensity of emotional expression, including facial expression, voice tone, eye contact, and body language.

Alogia, or poverty of speech, is the lessening of speech fluency and productivity, thought to reflect slowing or blocked thoughts, and often manifested as short, empty replies to questions.

Avolition is the reduction, difficulty, or inability to initiate and persist in goal-directed behavior; it is often mistaken for apparent disinterest. (examples of avolition include: no longer interested in going out and meeting with friends, no longer interested in activities that the person used to show enthusiasm for, no longer interested in much of anything, sitting in the house for many hours a day doing nothing.)

Negative symptoms, these are the lack of important abilities. Some of these include:

lack of emotion - the inability to enjoy acitivities as much as before 
Low energy - the person sits around and sleeps much more than normal 
lack of interest in life, low motivation 
Affective flattening - a blank, blunted facial experession or less lively facial movements or physical movements. 
Alogia (difficulty or inability to speak) 
Inappropriate social skills or lack of interest or ability to socialize with other people 
Inability to make friends or keep friends, or not caring to have friends 
Social isolation - person spends most of the day alone or only with close family



blackwinded said:


> i agree that imediatly dismissing you as not having schizophrenia just because you don't hallucinate is unproffesional and ignorant of any doctor.


Good, I am not the only one.

I've joined some schizophrenia support forums and they all seem to be quite aware of their illness.


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## Lunar Lander (Feb 17, 2006)

OK, but compare that list of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia with those of, say, depression, anxiety, or social anxiety, and you'll find out why your doctor doesn't think that you need to worry about schizophrenia unless you have positive symptoms like hallucinations.


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

HI peacedove, Hope I don't sound like a smart ass by what im going to say here. Just wanting to be helpful.

>>>>>>I'll copy and paste some...

Cognitive Symptoms of Schizophrenia
Cognitive symptoms refer to the difficulties with concentration and memory. These can include: 
disorganized thinking 
slow thinking 
difficulty understanding 
poor concentration 
poor memory 
difficulty expressing thoughts 
difficulty integrating thoughts, feelings and behavior >>>>>>>>>

While You have listed many of the symptoms that accompany schizophrenia, these can be symptoms of many different illness, like ADD, depression, dp/dr

>>>>>Catatonic behaviors are characterized by a marked decrease in reaction to the immediate surrounding environment, sometimes taking the form of motionless and apparent unawareness<<<<<<

Catatonia can also be a part of severe depression and probably some other disorders as well. But If you experience Catatonia with no depressive symptoms, then that's another story.

>>>>>>Other symptoms sometimes present in schizophrenia but not often enough to be definitional alone include affect inappropriate to the situation or stimuli, unusual motor behavior (pacing, rocking), depersonalization, derealization, and somatic preoccupations. (* I have DP and I pace around a lot)<<<<

All these things can be caused by anxiety, mania, depersonalization/derealization disorder, etc. as well.

>>>>>>>Negative symptoms, these are the lack of important abilities. Some of these include:

lack of emotion - the inability to enjoy acitivities as much as before 
Low energy - the person sits around and sleeps much more than normal 
lack of interest in life, low motivation 
Affective flattening - a blank, blunted facial experession or less lively facial movements or physical movements. 
Alogia (difficulty or inability to speak) 
Inappropriate social skills or lack of interest or ability to socialize with other people 
Inability to make friends or keep friends, or not caring to have friends 
Social isolation - person spends most of the day alone or only with close family <<<<<<<<

It can be really hard to distinguish if someone is actually experiencing the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, or if some of these symptoms are due to depression . Apathy, low motivation, social withdrawl, Alogia, etc. Can all be symptoms of depression. But if your having these negative symptoms without any depression, then schizophrenia might be in question.

Flat affect and such can be a result of dp/dr, or is often a side effect of many antidepressants.

Schizophrenia is very difficult to diagnose, especially without the presence of positive symptoms. Everything has to be broken down into little tiny bits;-- are your negative symptoms, such as apathy, low energy, social withdrawl, due to depression or another MI, "Are you experiencing a lack of emotions due to side effects of meds, dp/dr, personality disorders," ...it goes on and on.

Peacedove, if you suffer from depression, dp/dr, and severe anxiety, then I wouldn't worry so much about having schizophrenia, because more than likely, your symptoms are due to the dp/dr, anxiety and such. It doesn't sound to me like you have schiz, but then again im no doc. If your depression, anxiety and dp go away and these negative and cognitive symptoms remain, then you could consider schiz as a possibility, but otherwise, i wouldn't worry.

I hope this all made sense.

>>>>>>>>I've joined some schizophrenia support forums and they all seem to be quite aware of their illness.>>>>>>>

Yeah, especially if they are on a schizophrenia website, then they are likely quite aware of their illness, or at least their symptoms.


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## Kelson12 (Aug 10, 2004)

Ok, not to sound mean or anything....but what if you do have schizophernia? Would that make a difference? Would it make you feel any better? No. Someone could tell me I have Supercalafragileisticexpialadocious Disorder. It's still not gonna make me feel better. I guess it is just trying to find the underlying issue and trying to deal with it! Again, what if you do have schizophernia? Is it going to make you feel better? Honestly, you're freaking out about it, makes it way worse!

But on a lighter note, you do seem very similar to me. I don't know exactly what caused mine. I think the combination of an already sensitive brain and mental capacity and alcohol. That's just my take on it. I tried pot twice, but never really had a panic attack or anything from it.

Kelson


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## comfortably numb (Mar 6, 2006)

Its true that some schizophrenics know they are going crazy or whatever term fits that description. It is a myth that all schizophrenics lack insight into their illness. Some of them are all too aware of the fact that they are losing it.

But saying that peacedove just sounds like he or she is suffering from alot of anxiety.


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

Well you didn't sound like a smartass.... until....



blackwinded said:


> >>>>>>>>I've joined some schizophrenia support forums and they all seem to be quite aware of their illness.>>>>>>>
> 
> Yeah, especially if they are on a schizophrenia website, then they are likely quite aware of their illness, or at least their symptoms.


Just kidding. :wink:

Thanks everybody for your input. I know I have anxiety, depression, and DP. But I think there is more to it. It's hard to explain. I guess it's all this confusion in my head.

Maybe I'm schizophrenic... or becoming that way and maybe I'm not. I go through these phases of worrying about it, I don't know why. Right now though I'm not worried anymore.



kelson12 said:


> But on a lighter note, you do seem very similar to me. I don't know exactly what caused mine. I think the combination of an already sensitive brain and mental capacity and alcohol.


You think alcohol has something to do with it?  My DP started before I ever drank but I'm afraid alcohol is making it worse now. And you think it could have helped cause yours... that sucks. Alcohol is the only thing that gives me momentary feeling of normal.

And I think it's messing with my memory. Another fear of mine... Alzheimer's.


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## blackwinded (Jul 31, 2005)

peacedove said:


> Well you didn't sound like a smartass.... until....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just kidding. :wink: >>>>>>>>>>>

Yikes! sorry peacedove. I was only agreeing with you there. But now that i read it, i see how it made me come across as sounding smart-assed. I didn't mean it like that. I was just reassuring people that lots of schizophrenics are aware of their illness

>>>>>You think alcohol has something to do with it?  My DP started before I ever drank but I'm afraid alcohol is making it worse now. And you think it could have helped cause yours... that sucks. Alcohol is the only thing that gives me momentary feeling of normal.<<<<<<<<<<<

And I think it's messing with my memory. Another fear of mine... Alzheimer's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

yes, the alchohol could deffinatly worsen DP/DR. I have had dp and dr long before i ever tried alchohol and cannabis, but these drugs (especially weed) seem to temporarily worsen my dp and dr. Im trying to stop using them because it's likely if i dont that they'll perminantly worsen everything.

.......Im worried that my mom is developing Alzheimer's


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## sebastian (Aug 11, 2004)

Lunar Lander said:


> OK, but compare that list of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia with those of, say, depression, anxiety, or social anxiety, and you'll find out why your doctor doesn't think that you need to worry about schizophrenia unless you have positive symptoms like hallucinations.


This is very true. I don't pretend to be an expert on this disease (although i do know and am related to several people who have it) and i don't pretend to know what's going on in your head Peacedove, but i used to have all the same fears that you have. I would also think that what i had was way too esotheric to "just be anxiety". But it almost certainly is.

What is your family history on this and how old are you?

Just a couple of other points (i hate rushing posts like this, but i'm at work):

I really don't think you need to worry about diseases like Alzheimers, particularly since medical science seems on the verge of creating a vaccine for it.

Also, alcohol, as you know, will probably heighten your anxiety but it doesn't necessarily adversely effect everyone. Alcohol used to make me really depressed and anxious the next day, but since i made the switch to red wine i'm able to drink copious amounts every night with no adverse effects (except waking up late for work).

I hope you don't worry too much about this PeaceDove. Even if you do develop schizophrenia it's far from the end of the world. I expect the disease to become progressively easier to live with the more science understands it.

s.


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## Martinelv (Aug 10, 2004)

This is a very common phrase, and it reassured me to heaven and back.

Perhaps it needs to be rephrased to placate the pedantic. If you are 'actively psychotic', then you do not realise that you are mad.

Of course, there are states of schizophrenia where reality testing is intact, but is still makes no difference. You may know you are weird, or ill, but without help and medication you would do nothing about it.


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## peacedove (Aug 15, 2004)

As far as I know, no one in my family has had schizophrenia.

I am 24. That's another reason I feel this illness is a possibility for me cuz I heard most women get it in their mid to late twenties.

A vaccine for Alzheimer's? Hmm. I hope so.

You don't think alcohol has caused you any permanent memory problems Sebastian? Something is messing with my memory.... maybe it's having this DP for so long.



Martinelv said:


> If you are 'actively psychotic', then you do not realise that you are mad.


Yes... that makes much more sense.


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